Forum logs for 07 Sep 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
trinque: asciilifeform: yep, I'm going to do something about this right away. [01:17]
trinque: looks like paster is currently up. [01:17]
asciilifeform: oh hm ossabot dis/re-connected (apparently properly) [01:20]
trinque: looks like deedbot's staying attached so far too [01:21]
asciilifeform: trinque: i was curious specifically re reconnector, in light of lobbes earlier [01:21]
trinque: in all honesty I think I misunderstood IRC, pinging from client was implemented, responding to pings entirely not. [01:21]
asciilifeform: trinque: interesting -- so it worked 'by accident' ?? [01:22]
trinque: probably the situation was that most times server doesn't ping if client has already. [01:22]
asciilifeform: as in, if the pong so happened to be in-phase with last ping -- stayed on [01:22]
trinque: somethinglikethat [01:22]
asciilifeform: trinque: i suspect the latter rather [01:22]
trinque: then there's some threadism weird that I solved by lopping off, where an exception wasn't handled properly and the thread died, rest remained. [01:23]
asciilifeform: aa. [01:23]
trinque: I was by no means a lisp expert when I wrote the item, so in re: languages thread, I don't think it should reflect on CL [01:23]
trinque: reflects on me! [01:23]
asciilifeform: trinque: i recall sewing 'pehbot' from it, found it a little overengineered (e.g. oopized) [01:23]
trinque: not even properly CL oopized. java-headed oop [01:24]
trinque: but you know, learning is a thing. at any rate, I'm probably going to muntz a tad further and vpatch this weekend. [01:25]
trinque: various nonthreadly parts of deedbot's stack are still bulletproof, and have been for years [01:25]
trinque: e.g. wallet [01:25]
trinque: (the various problems with it have been related to replication between pg instances, and not CL) [01:25]
trinque: in other CLisms, esthlos' vtron works great. it's a shame he left. [01:26]
asciilifeform: meanwhile in entirely unrelated bizarre : i obtained from a junk seller, what appears to be an orcish serial port card made at РФЯЦ – ВНИИТФ . the famous fortified city. at some pt will make photo-reportage re internals. oughta be interesting from 'how did folx who actually Gave A Shit build their irons?' archaeological pov. [01:26]
asciilifeform: cast iron brick, sealed with what passes for governmental seal in current-day orcistan, it alone oughta be interesting in teardown. [01:27]
* asciilifeform in fact bothered to see whether it sets off the geigers. almost surprised that it did not. [01:29]
asciilifeform: trinque: indeed a shame that he left. esthlos was a+++ fella while alive. [01:29]
asciilifeform: i wonder whether in fact died. left without any goodbye -- and his www is frozen exactly as it was [01:30]
asciilifeform: trinque: the vtron may be buggy tho. ( i haven't tried personally however ) [01:33]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 14:41:05 shinohai: Anyway, this morning's experiments show that esthlos V won't press trb correctly. Barfs on asciilifeform's numbered bitcoin vpatches, eg: [01:33]
trinque: eh "this morning's experiments" don't appear to be on a blog or otherwise documented [01:34]
asciilifeform: tru [01:34]
trinque: as I say to folks all the time BAD BUG REPORT [01:34]
* trinque will be back in a sec after eating logs [01:34]
asciilifeform: i wish folx would get into the habit of fucking posting their barf [01:34]
trinque: otherwise one's doing what, "expressing himself" ? [01:35]
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1933983 << I think this kind of comparison is exactly what's needed. [01:36]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 01:18:37 lobbes: I think, in general, it makes sense for me to chew through the logotron "todo" list right now. I would eventually like to get a php version of the reader.py written for purposes of comparison. [01:36]
trinque: I was just thinking of doing a few pasters, in light of the current paster not looking so good. [01:36]
asciilifeform: trinque: maybe 1st try raising ben_vulpes from his grave ? [01:37]
asciilifeform: or is he completely totalled ? [01:37]
trinque: bv wishes not to be raised, and I shan't press the issue further. [01:37]
asciilifeform: sad. [01:37]
asciilifeform: RIP. [01:37]
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-05#1933879 << the fact of the matter is that there are very few folks pulling revenue from inside the republic. [01:39]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 12:28:25 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: do you remember by any chance *where* did you say explicitly that one's less by precisely their investment/time outside the republic? [01:39]
trinque: obviously a circumstance I'd like to see remedied. [01:39]
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934003 << this is I think the subcurrent here. [01:41]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 04:29:58 spyked: hat's the usefulness in the end if I'm not gonna do anything productive with it? [01:41]
trinque: on the subj of CL webtrons, the approach I've used is to have the CL proggie write static html (from another place, even) to a toilet static www server. [01:42]
asciilifeform: trinque: on ramdisk ? [01:42]
asciilifeform: trinque: how do you keep the serv from serving it up before 100% written ? [01:43]
asciilifeform: or, for that matter, how do you process e.g. PUT? or url params ? [01:43]
trinque: on wot.deedbot.org I don't. it's a cut-of-the-knot approach [01:44]
asciilifeform: aa there it naturally worx [01:44]
asciilifeform: but for anyffin moar complicated (e.g. having a search box) [01:44]
trinque: the IRC-for-input and www-for-output split was contemplated in an old thread. I still like it [01:44]
asciilifeform: this obv. worx in some applications. but i dun grasp how one would implement e.g. searchable log, this way [01:46]
trinque: !s search terms [01:46]
trinque: http://link/to/written/result.html [01:46]
trinque: my !!key method works precisely this way, actually [01:47]
asciilifeform: trinque: and then you gotta delete these ? what if you want the resulting link to remain clickable ? [01:47]
asciilifeform: trinque: this worx because keys are relatively static. [01:47]
trinque: if running out of disk accumulating text is a concern, could keep last n [01:48]
asciilifeform: i like that search links from arbitrarily long ago are clickable and human-readable. [01:48]
trinque: if no-js is a rip along one perforation, no dynamic html is another [01:49]
asciilifeform: and that can search from www, without cluttering chans ( my bot doesn't do PM and i intend to keep it that way ) [01:49]
trinque: sure, I'm not trying to take it away [01:49]
asciilifeform: right. was explaining why i did not see it as a workable cut when wrote mine. [01:49]
trinque: iirc at one point also a block explorer was contemplated that'd shit static html [01:50]
trinque: plenty of apps needn't more [01:50]
asciilifeform: that'd be perfect case for statics imho [01:50]
asciilifeform: blox dun change. [01:50]
trinque: heh, does this become an even better case for apache+php. "you only need it for search/comments/etc" [01:51]
asciilifeform: lobbes iirc went to make one, lessee what he comes back with [01:51]
trinque: been thinking of another angle on the question. these items are residue left by *money* flowing through them [01:52]
asciilifeform: trinque: which items ? [01:52]
trinque: the webshitlangs [01:52]
asciilifeform: a [01:52]
asciilifeform: trinque: imho the moar printolade flowed 'through' $proggy, tends to be the moar of a turd it is [01:53]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 10:55:56 asciilifeform: 'lamp' and the influx of deskilled labour connected with its rise , is imho exactly basketball tumour, and succinctly summarized by naggum [01:53]
trinque: the republic can do one of two things. it can eat a language including interpreter/compiler, or it can take the "tear-arms-off-and-beat-them-with" approach. [01:54]
asciilifeform: ( e.g. java, and microshit, prolly the very usg gosplan & central bank run on'em. still liquishit. ) [01:54]
trinque: being simplistic there's plenty of hybrid to be had [01:54]
trinque: seems like the arms with least resistance to being torn off usefully are the ones with shortest dependency chain. [01:56]
asciilifeform: trinque: i went to look at what is php made from ( given all the prodding by mircea_popescu ) and seems to weigh at least as much as the python toolchain [01:56]
trinque: I'm not arguing for php, feeling around for method [01:56]
trinque: it's forth for all we know right now [01:56]
asciilifeform: well i was genuinely curious. for all i knew, lighter [01:56]
trinque: the existence of mod_php isn't much of an argument either. there's mod_everything [01:59]
asciilifeform: trinque: for overall smallest mass of system + all needed for $problem ? afaik forth in fact is the unchallenged champ, wherever was historically tried. [01:59]
asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask folx to learn it tho ( asciilifeform in fact quite fond of forth, and used extensively. but i also recognize that to most people utterly 'martian' ) [02:00]
asciilifeform: chuck moor had , famously , complete vlsi production plant in iirc 3k loc of forth . [02:01]
asciilifeform: complete w/ electromagnetic models etc [02:01]
asciilifeform: forth also has the afaik unique attribute where standing up a forth on bare iron is ~weekend's work for an adept [02:02]
asciilifeform: so 'bootstrap problem' evaporates. [02:02]
asciilifeform: 'peh' is -- arguably -- a (very fascist) forth . [02:02]
asciilifeform: ( moor, if he were in his grave, would be spinning like propeller ) [02:03]
trinque: lol [02:03]
asciilifeform: on e.g. x86, a forth complete enuff that you could comfortably live the rest of your life in it, weighs about 1kB. [02:05]
trinque: what's next there? how far is it from being bolted to a network socket of some kind? [02:05]
asciilifeform: trinque: trivial if you know the magick inits for $nic. [02:05]
trinque: I mean peh specifically [02:05]
asciilifeform: ugh [02:05]
trinque: not asking "why haven't you given me x", just wondering. [02:06]
asciilifeform: rly you'd want to burn e.g. 4096bits when looping over a 1byte variable ? [02:06]
asciilifeform: and wait ~1s to multiply 1x1 ? [02:06]
asciilifeform: ( or even 0x0 ) [02:07]
trinque: perhaps to establish session [02:07]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu called this 'use 50cal rifle as fishing pole' [02:07]
asciilifeform: tho imho in this case it is moar like using battalion howitzer as fishing pole. [02:08]
asciilifeform: trinque: an 'iron peh', where the ALU is actually e.g. 4096b-wide -- may be workable as general-purpose comp. [02:09]
asciilifeform: but on x86 ? [02:09]
trinque: what's the iron peh cost [02:09]
trinque: even as prosthetic, not whole comp [02:09]
asciilifeform: trinque: elaborate re 'as prosthetic' ? [02:09]
asciilifeform: i can maybe answer the q, if it is made very, very concrete. [02:10]
trinque: can an item be built that functions at a network boundary quickly [02:11]
asciilifeform: ( http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934333 is obv. exaggeration, if anyone doesn't grasp. but yer still talking about a 1ms op where normally x86 gives 1ns ) [02:12]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:06:40 asciilifeform: and wait ~1s to multiply 1x1 ? [02:12]
trinque: i.e. inside I have w/e, naked women, dancing bears, there's a membrane at the edge of my lair run by the ??? in question [02:12]
asciilifeform: trinque: so, actual honest iron ? 1-2mil transistors. i.e. coupla 100k $ for 1st tray, and afterwards a few cents ea. if baked in qty. as you might expect. [02:13]
trinque: how fast is the iron? [02:13]
asciilifeform: this figure for e.g. 65nm . i.e. ~gz or so, realistically. [02:15]
trinque: so that's the 1ns? [02:15]
asciilifeform: aha. tho presently i doubt that it's physically possible to make a 4096x4096b multiplier converge in <1ns [02:16]
asciilifeform: their physical size is ~cube of the bitness , and speed of light is finite. [02:16]
trinque: so if you'll permit a dunce, imagine a device with a trusted and untrusted interface. [02:17]
trinque: untrusted interface is w/e nic, running mystery meat, who cares [02:18]
trinque: middle is your encrypter/decrypter. [02:18]
trinque: trusted interface shits decrypted material, descripters of who said, and what was said. eats outbound material. [02:18]
asciilifeform: iirc we had thread about this. [02:18]
trinque: this cuts the world enough to be useful, unless I'm stupid [02:19]
asciilifeform: 'iron gossipd'. [02:19]
trinque: entirely [02:19]
asciilifeform: i proposed it in '16 as a 'gateway' into gossipnet. ( eats packets at line rate, emits from 2nd nic hole the ones that were found edible. ) [02:19]
trinque: that thing has a market. everyone knows tls is a lie. [02:20]
trinque: even them. [02:20]
asciilifeform: i'm inclined to agree. but possibly asciilifeform is that last one who oughta talk about 'what has market', asciilifeform also thought FG had mega-market waiting. [02:21]
asciilifeform: *the last one [02:22]
trinque: I wouldn't propose building the thing without first identifying the market. [02:22]
trinque: the republic can't live correctly and expect folks to line up. the world's too far gone. money has to whip around in republic-shaped loops long enough to retrain enough human heads. [02:24]
asciilifeform: trinque: it would indeed 'cut world', in the sense that gives you a gossiptronic net fully layered over the traditional one. and with dozen+ entrance boxen, suddenly impossible to effectively ddos anything on the inner (i.e. what comes out of the 2nd plug) world. [02:24]
trinque: I have been enamored of this idea since the first mircea_popescu and asciilifeform threads on same. [02:24]
asciilifeform: imho it's the obv. Right Thing. [02:25]
asciilifeform: if you actually want to verify 4096bit rsa packets at line rate, tho, yer stuck baking silicon. [02:26]
asciilifeform: on ordinary x86 -- state-of-art today is bvt's inline asm where 0.25s per 4096bit modexp . [02:27]
trinque: the slow prototype'd still be useful as that, no? [02:28]
asciilifeform: trinque: the slow prototype is what asciilifeform (is slowly getting back nao!) to working on . [02:28]
trinque: if there is any other mundanity in the way feel free to throw it at me. [02:29]
asciilifeform: but important to remember that yer nic can still eat 512b shitograms roughly 10,000x faster than you can modexp on'em . even w/ bvt's asmisms. [02:29]
asciilifeform: you can parallelize the work, but the amt of effective diff it makes , is relatively small when compared to the absolute size of the above shortfall. [02:30]
trinque: call that a positive, less risk of prototype standing up and running away from your desk [02:30]
asciilifeform: lol [02:31]
asciilifeform: i'ma get it to the point where does the job orig. promised. but 'unsinkable network battleship' will have to wait for actual irons , as i understand . [02:31]
asciilifeform: a gb nic can theoretically swallow 2**18 512b packets / sec . [02:33]
trinque: maybe at that point a couple of us can muster a couple 100k to see it baked [02:34]
trinque: I'd just want to know who we're selling to. ourselves isn't enough [02:34]
asciilifeform: i certainly wouldn't invite anyone to pay to build such space station until thoroughly familiar with working example 'in soft' [02:35]
asciilifeform: ( btw , for thread-completeness -- you need 4096 modexp in < 3.8 ~microsecond~ to eat GB at line-rate. ) [02:36]
trinque: so potentially could go for bigger process than 65nm? [02:37]
asciilifeform: aaand this is counting whole interval, in which not only rsa but e.g. keccak padding calc. gotta happen. [02:37]
asciilifeform: trinque: opposite. [02:38]
asciilifeform: entirely possib. that it is only feasible in 35nm or better. [02:38]
asciilifeform: this is difficult to calculate 'on napkin' w/out an actual complete iron design, however. [02:38]
asciilifeform: 1 of the reasons why iron is such a bitch is that ~very~ small differences in logical design can give gigantic diff in performance. [02:39]
asciilifeform: whole thread nearly borders on sin, given as almost anyffin i say on the subj is likely to be catastrophically wrong. [02:40]
asciilifeform: i.e. even answering the feasibility q is likely to be quite expensive. [02:40]
trinque: I'm just glad to hear it's still on teh conveyor [02:40]
asciilifeform: trinque: it is. tho i lost more than month (not counting the entirely pointless expedition of 'M', then could say lost 3mo ! ) [02:41]
asciilifeform: seems like erry summer asciilifeform does a jet-powered flight into brick wall. last time it was the cr50 thing. [02:42]
trinque: heh, this place needs a cartoonist so bad [02:43]
asciilifeform: after http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934226 is put to rest, i'ma leave the logger alone, unless someone finds catastrophic problem . [02:44]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 15:52:02 asciilifeform: tho possibly still isn't exactly what we traditionally want. e.g. this , possibly oughta match only space-bounded strings when quoted term ? [02:44]
asciilifeform: would really like to get back to conveyor . [02:44]
trinque: god, unrelatedly, it suddenly becomes clear that when I moved deedbot to singapore, I increased his ping. [02:46]
asciilifeform: ping to trinque's current chair ? [02:47]
asciilifeform: ( i imagine ping from asia, ~decreased~ neh ) [02:47]
trinque: to freenode, I'd be willing to wager [02:47]
asciilifeform: would depend which fleanode box, neh [02:47]
asciilifeform: how many even work any moar [02:47]
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu surveyed, and found that it was some laffably small # [02:48]
trinque: and I was using chat.freenode.net, and lo, the bot was better connected in certain sessions than others. [02:48]
asciilifeform: as in, single digits [02:48]
trinque: so then, lets say freenode pings you if you haven't pinged in last x, and x happened to resemble my ping interval closely. [02:49]
trinque: "have you tried installing it with up facing up?" [02:49]
trinque: the cuntoo experience really did some radiation damage to my patience for the oss stack. [02:49]
asciilifeform: trinque: i found , when experimented, that you have just about half minute! to answer their ping [02:50]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-31 23:58:52 asciilifeform: (i.e. it is in fact possible to fleanode with hands! via telnet) [02:50]
trinque: lol, and my ping thread was doing every 30sec! [02:50]
asciilifeform: ahahaha [02:50]
asciilifeform: trinque: if you had made it 29 -- prolly would have seemed to work 4evah [02:51]
asciilifeform: ( in spite of algo being wrong ) [02:51]
trinque: hysterically bad [02:52]
asciilifeform: it is interesting, irc protocol asks that pingism follow form 'PING foo' 'PONG foo' . but their foo seems to be a constant. [02:53]
asciilifeform: if they'd actually made it variant, like was orig. meant, you would have noticed right away that your algo aint it. [02:53]
trinque: I'm gonna go chase a girl around the house a bit, bbl [02:53]
asciilifeform: see also [02:54]
snsabot: Logged on 2018-02-02 11:23:06 asciilifeform: the 'postel's law' nonsense, of silently forgiving people who send liquishit at the dusty disused corners of the protocol, enabling there to even ~be~ such a thing as dusty corners in a protocol!, MUST die. [02:54]
asciilifeform: trinque: i'ma also bbl. food, sleep... [02:54]
asciilifeform: ( pet : 'when me?' ) [02:54]
* asciilifeform off to meat. [02:55]
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934213 << ty! [04:26]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 15:26:07 asciilifeform: lobbes, diana_coman , et al : logotron page updated to include lobbes's piece ! [04:26]
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934071 << about to head to bed, but tomorrow morning I'm gonna do some deep log spelunking and investigating and report findings in a blog post. [04:26]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 11:35:08 asciilifeform: lobbes: what's in yer bot log ? [04:26]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-05#1933961 << it occurs to me this passed unformalized, and it'd be a pity. so, the mp theory of work-conditions-and-productivity-for-intellectuals : [04:53]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 19:53:23 asciilifeform: forward voltage lol [04:53]
mircea_popescu: work conditions (understood as available toolset, and available paradigm, driving respectively a physical (ie, time-cost, perceived as pain) and mental (also perceived as pain) cost sum to a scalar describing the "painfulness" of the workplace. [04:54]
mircea_popescu: call that P. meanwhile output, or productivity, is expressed as a different scalar, call it W. [04:55]
mircea_popescu: the theory says, that for any context there exists in all cases a P-threshold epsilon, such that if P>e W=0 whereas if P<e, W=q, where q is a quantified amount of productivity (because yes, W is quantified, like low-scale energies). [04:56]
mircea_popescu: that is part one. part two, is that for further reductions of P, W scales superlinearily. in my practice to date, P=e/2 drives W = q^5 approx, like air fucking friction. [04:57]
mircea_popescu: this theory, for isntance, explains why there's no college outside of say that-one-place-in-mass, or that-one-place between frisco and san jose : the P in, say, chicago is >e. [04:58]
mircea_popescu: more generally, also explains why no rembrandts : P over e. [04:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2016-11-07 11:53:31 mircea_popescu: recall the "where are the rembrandts then" argument ? the us fails to produce a philosopher worth the mention every other decade athens managed that much on 1/1000th the population. [04:59]
mircea_popescu: it is, obviously, entirely false to imagine that pP is the only factor in P mP probably started overwhelming it in importance with the modern age, driving the important point here : this theory ~can actually be used as a timeline-substitute~, replace time with P-at-that-time. [05:00]
mircea_popescu: historical phenomenology suddenly starts making a lot more sense -- because yes, history is, was and will forever fucking remain the story of great men and what great men do with their lives and consequently the world they own and everyone else just inhabits... well, that's a story of P an [05:01]
mircea_popescu: d w. [05:01]
mircea_popescu: there's further implications but, to fit the point back to narrow interest : saying the tools are already there is not even stupid, it's entirely besides the point. the only effectual question is, "has the lowest possible P in theory been actually realised in practice". [05:04]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 04:34:33 spyked: magemagick (what I believe mp-wp uses currently?) or gimp batch processer regardless of what is to be used, the tools *are already there*, it's the user's problem how or what he uses. I for one don't wanna use web interface for photo processing, nor did I ever intend to add this to thetarpit, nor would I stop anyone from adding them if they wish [05:04]
mircea_popescu: everything else's just self-harmful wank. [05:04]
mircea_popescu: this, then, is also why A. the republic is so mingbogglingly successful and also B. why so limited in scope. [05:08]
mircea_popescu: as to A, let it be clearly stated for reviweable record, and let anyone who manages to take his head out of his own ass verify or challenge this plain statement as best he can : [05:09]
mircea_popescu: if you call productivity time debit D, D = P/t, it's self-evident that not since the early days of csail have such Ds been seen on planet earth. [05:11]
mircea_popescu: the ~reason~ is that not since the same spot have such Ps been seen. [05:11]
mircea_popescu: the traditional view, driven by high medieval practice, is to regard work~load~ as the dissuasive factor, some guy who might think himself a shoemaker may re-consider if confronted with a pile of shoe leather waiting to be shoed stretching twelve acres and reaching into the skies. [05:12]
mircea_popescu: this is ~completely~ spurious. the workload has ~entirely and absolutely nothing~ to do with anything. people ~will~ engage just as gladly in "impossible tasks" as in "easy tasks", the driving consideration is P, not "what quantity of W is '''required''' to '''see results'''" or anything like that. [05:13]
mircea_popescu: (meh, i obviously mean D = W/t). [05:15]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931863 << keks, so what, i been talking of harems &c for a decade+, yet peeps been just assuming i'm fantasizing or something ? [05:24]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-29 09:57:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931848 << this character mentioned 4 or 5 times recently... but does it have a name ? ( i admit, when 1st saw picture, assumed it was a young photo-shy hanbot ) [05:24]
mircea_popescu: anyway, biosacks only need names if they're about to log here. both hanbot an' nicoleci are on, and so far what you lot wanna use them for is rather punching bags, from experience, so i don't see the urgency in naming anyone else. [05:28]
mircea_popescu: (though i suppose it's a wonderment whether anyone thought eg http://trilema.com/2018/lord-mp-of-tmsr-and-the-plebeian-princess-club/ similarily depicts "camera shy hanbot". in duplicate -- one's been tanning for a half year. [05:30]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934209 << keks. because why wouldn't it, amirite. [05:38]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 15:17:27 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934123 <-- huh, whaddaya know, that was the problem! ty, diana_coman! unfortunately baking a patch isn't as simple as "vdiff a b", because sbcl comes with binaries included. :| will get to this when I'm back home [05:38]
mircea_popescu: !!up [05:39]
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/B4all/?raw=true [05:39]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934214 < <fixed meanwhiles i see ? [05:40]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 15:27:10 asciilifeform: meanwhile , ACHTUNG trinque & ben_vulpes : >>> http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-06#1000253 [05:40]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934219 << ok, but that's still no reason not to include it, you know ? [05:42]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 15:30:33 bvt: i did not switch to the newer keccak code, as this would not solve underlying issue: vdiff would still crash with large files, just the limit would be 8x larger [05:42]
mircea_popescu: i guess patch on top. [05:42]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934227 << i propose we give it a rest for nao, and upgrade / improve later if need to on basis of experience. [05:48]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 15:52:16 asciilifeform: i'ma see what mircea_popescu says when wakes up. [05:48]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934235 << ha, interdasting race condition! [05:49]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:22:10 trinque: probably the situation was that most times server doesn't ping if client has already. [05:49]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934241 << or on freenode, which was vaguely suspected of evil for it [05:52]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:23:35 trinque: I was by no means a lisp expert when I wrote the item, so in re: languages thread, I don't think it should reflect on CL [05:52]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934257 << there's a lot of cvasi-effort/idle pullulation in the wanna-be cloud sharply directed at "being mp on the cheap". he figures he'll be cool if he says that, which is why he does. [06:01]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:34:11 trinque: eh "this morning's experiments" don't appear to be on a blog or otherwise documented [06:01]
mircea_popescu: the infuriating part (well, mostly to the girls, but anyway) is just how fucking superificial the cloning is. [06:01]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934252 << lol what is this, fallout the rl game ? [06:04]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:29:22 asciilifeform: in fact bothered to see whether it sets off the geigers. almost surprised that it did not. [06:04]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, any reason bot reads a treminating 0001 char on that line ? [06:05]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ctcpism [06:19]
asciilifeform: iirc phf suggested a fix, but i have not tested yet [06:19]
asciilifeform: ( fleanode apparently surrounds 'action' msgs with 2 spurious 0x01, one on ea. side ) [06:20]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934468 << ha! fewer things to do! i aint about to protest. [06:22]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:48:32 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934227 << i propose we give it a rest for nao, and upgrade / improve later if need to on basis of experience. [06:22]
* asciilifeform will comment on mircea_popescu's other observations when wakes up. [06:23]
mircea_popescu: ah [06:29]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934254 << i think there's so much shame / self-loathing necessarily (and, for that matter, correctly) naturally associated by the mind with leaving here, i dinf it unsurprising dudes leave quietly. [06:45]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:30:29 asciilifeform: i wonder whether in fact died. left without any goodbye -- and his www is frozen exactly as it was [06:45]
mircea_popescu: dinf = find [06:46]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934268 << ok, so did you also inherit the code/domain etc ? or should i rush through some replacements, eg spyked's imgpaster ? or what here ? [06:50]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:37:26 trinque: bv wishes not to be raised, and I shan't press the issue further. [06:50]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934178 - did not test but apparently bot tested it so I'll have at least one data point to look at when I get to it. [06:50]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 13:41:15 asciilifeform: hey diana_coman , didja ever manually test the reconnector? i -- did but from lobbes's bot i have dark suspicion that it doesn't 100% work !! [06:50]
mircea_popescu: o howdy diana_coman [06:51]
diana_coman: morning mircea_popescu [06:51]
diana_coman: eating mega-log before breakfast here. [06:52]
mircea_popescu: ikr. [06:52]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934271 << or, for that matter, pulling revenue at all. the fundamental problem with socialist "money" aka scrip is that... well, inca prints and distributes. [07:00]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:39:25 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-05#1933879 << the fact of the matter is that there are very few folks pulling revenue from inside the republic. [07:00]
mircea_popescu: who pulled revenue from ~outside~ of republic ? ian murdock ? mark cuban ? esr ? varanul ? things that don't exist don't exist because they dont' exist, can't go about blaming the inex [07:03]
mircea_popescu: istence detector. [07:03]
mircea_popescu: as the more-honest-us aptly points out, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934201 for everyone else there's http://trilema.com/2017/the-universal-plan-for-wealth/ and not much else (rather : exactly NOTHING else). [07:05]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 14:00:54 asciilifeform: 'los dolares se pesifican automaticamente' lol!!! [07:05]
BingoBoingo: And thusly Uruguay signs road belt plans with China while Argentina sucks all the liver spotted NY cocks [07:06]
BingoBoingo: circumcised of course [07:06]
mircea_popescu: in any case, the argument is utterly fucking broken. "get out now" "oh but mp, can i stay longer ? it's totally worth it, make so much $$$" "huh, i guess..." "but mp... make no $$$, whay!" "because you're fucked in the head. goto 1." [07:07]
mircea_popescu: "can't commit" "okay..." "why's nothing happening ?" "duh ?" "nofair, should have way around eat+keep cake" "ummkay." [07:08]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934318 - IF it's so good, I'd gladly learn ANY martian. [07:10]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:16:07 asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask folx to learn it tho ( asciilifeform in fact quite fond of forth, and used extensively. but i also recognize that to most people utterly 'martian' ) [07:10]
mircea_popescu: the matter SIMPLY CAN NOT BE IGNORED : if back in 2017, ie the very month that article came out, joe bloe took out the 20-50k in debt he could and liquidated the 20-50k in assets that he could, converting it to bitcoin at a monthly average $1k, he'd be looking now at either 400k to 1mn in cold hard cash, or else something like 1-1.5mn worth of liquidated assets, if he sold during the peak. (and not AT the peak, for 1.76mn [07:13]
mircea_popescu: or so). [07:13]
mircea_popescu: now, who the fuck made that half million in these two years, "pulling revenue" ? [07:13]
mircea_popescu: "oh, but mp, we didn't know". OF COURSE you fucking didn't know. what you DID know, however, today as in 2017 as in 2015 as for a while, is that the zone's the zone. what the fuck's gonna happen in there ? [07:13]
* BingoBoingo told a simple folk this Wednesday "If all you take you Argentina is your plasic card you're going to get your asshole resized." Today, audible incoming "Why are the Argentine ATMs charging me 10 USD to take out pesos"... [07:23]
BingoBoingo: Fuck you, Gales does cash advance loans on Gringo debit in UY, between Gales and any given Chinese restaurant in BA... how many non-Governmental Ladrones can there be [07:25]
mircea_popescu: and even with the fucking example! that chick, she was the vp for hr with satan's own blue chip in charge of making airport satanism! YOU SAW THIS HAPPEN, much like linkedin saw this happen. [07:26]
mircea_popescu: and, exactly like the dumb strippers of yore, you... explained it away, rite ? (for bonus lulz points, in a manner already documented on trilema, to boot!) [07:26]
mircea_popescu: well wut da fuck! it works IF you work it, is teh expression. what else is there ? [07:26]
* BingoBoingo studying the formal presentation on productivity [07:27]
mircea_popescu: she's been in here, available, 90% of the time wasted during the intervening year. anyone had anything to ask, about easily the most interesting thing that happened ~on a personal level~, at least since bb actually got the fuck out / mocky tiptoed the sea ? [07:27]
mircea_popescu: good thing we talk of flaks, that's important. comparatively, i can't argue, WAY yhe fuck more important. hurr. [07:27]
mircea_popescu: nobody's giving away halfmillions for "knowing how to install linux from scratch" is the sad, if you wish, but irrespectively perdurant fact of the matter. [07:28]
mircea_popescu: persistence won't change this. [07:28]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934283 << and i still don't think there's anything wrong with it. website offering search box not necessity. if bot does, all is well. [07:38]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:44:57 trinque: the IRC-for-input and www-for-output split was contemplated in an old thread. I still like it [07:38]
mircea_popescu: html is, we insistently remind, A STATELESS PROTOCOL. no "logins". no cookies. no bullshit. [07:39]
mircea_popescu: the url params in particular are most confounding, because the concept as commonly encountered in the wilderness inhabited by wildmen actually fuses two VERY distinct and entirely distinguishable things. [07:40]
mircea_popescu: thing 1 is like http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-02#1933212 thing 2 is like http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=%23select&chan=trilema [07:40]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-02 16:35:05 diana_coman: I've finally got around to making the changes from http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/ and it works wonderfully! e.g. http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/?b=Logotron&e=#select [07:40]
mircea_popescu: the idea's only one of these is correct, the other's madness. [07:41]
mircea_popescu: yes, from inside the madness it "seems" like "oh but what's the difference". there's a fucking difference. [07:41]
mircea_popescu: and this is why ~my~ description of cache reads as it does, and so following. [07:43]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-14 02:15:03 mp_en_viaje: in general, fwis, it's ~always much better to do the "use apache for threading and fs-as-cache" model than anything else. but then again i'm not the hacker, don't let me keep you from your destiny. [07:43]
mircea_popescu: that wasn't an ~idle~, throwaway comment, btw. "don't let me keep you from your destiny" means exactly what it says : that there's a way we know things do actually work, and then there's a history of the republic to date -- it consists of a lulzy/depressing but in any case unrelenting march of people trying to do anything-but-that, everywhich way and all the time. [07:45]
mircea_popescu: not intentionally an' not deliberately and not awaredly nor am i out for heads. but the situation is indeed like the case where someone just discovered the impact of filth on medicine, and everyone (by which we mean the top whatever %) understood what the theory is, and for their merits gets now to struggle with expellas issues forever. [07:47]
mircea_popescu: (to be perfectly clear : http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/?b=Logotron&e=#select is what i meant by "thing 1". [07:50]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934288 << you're not thinking this through. what's a page, <100kb ? what's the daily output, 100 of these ? you're comitting to 10mb / day thereby ? ie a hour's blockchain ? this too much to ask for the republic ? [07:51]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:47:39 asciilifeform: trinque: and then you gotta delete these ? what if you want the resulting link to remain clickable ? [07:51]
mircea_popescu: don't think in terms "trillion files will lay eggs". will not -- that's why it's in chan. why not take the opportunity to support the republic, specifically ? [07:52]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log-search?q=f%3Asnsabot+results&chan=trilema << 23 entries found in trilema for 'f:snsabot results' meanwhile [07:54]
mircea_popescu: !q uptime [07:54]
snsabot: mircea_popescu: time since my last reconnect : 21d 17h 30m [07:54]
mircea_popescu: that's a little over 1 / day! [07:54]
mircea_popescu: not to mention -- we actually have redundancy archival process, yes ? if link ends up in chan, link also ends up archived, yes ? [07:55]
mircea_popescu: if you actually, inconceivably but actually, start pruning, can just as well do it as "will keep last n searches that weren [07:55]
mircea_popescu: t done in chan". [07:55]
mircea_popescu: and, of course, can meter / charge for usage! a bitcent at a time, deedbot won't mind. [07:56]
mircea_popescu: and so on! WE HAVE AL LTHIS SHIT!!! [07:56]
mircea_popescu: that we made. to be used! [07:56]
mircea_popescu: nobody else has anything even REMOTELY like it. nobody. [07:57]
mircea_popescu: there's 0 reason we even need to give a shit about hunchenbacktoot / rest of heathen world. people pay thousands/month to lease space in "seattle tech incubator", it's ~free here. [07:58]
mircea_popescu: no fuckin gincubator has even REMOTELY the infrastructure. [07:58]
mircea_popescu: so i'd say ~time to get crackin', [07:58]
diana_coman: I have been seriously pondering if I need for YoungHands to actually get a physical space to call "incubator" /similar since apparently that's the magic word that wards off evil or something. [08:03]
BingoBoingo: God no, I haven't seen a startup incubator that doesn't smell like the sump in my HS locker room. [08:09]
BingoBoingo: Maybe some other label, but not incubator. At least not incubator in a frost free climate [08:09]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: lolz it's the "familiar" word for students though, basically pattern-matches what they expect, to have them cross the threshold (so that in all probability I have to kick 99% out after that, but such is filtering by def) [08:11]
diana_coman: in any case, my puzzle there is whether it's worth making even such concession at all I'm normally not inclined and I'd say it's on them if they are dumb enough to not go in because it doesn't say incubator [08:13]
BingoBoingo: Most of the other folks I met here that share a common language with me pattern match Buenos Aires=Bigger=Better [08:13]
diana_coman: but onth since I'm filtering the sea, I want some place where all the sea goes through [08:14]
BingoBoingo: I don't see what's wrong with calling it a college and graduating it to University once 1+ graduates have the credentials to propose new faculties to the college [08:15]
diana_coman: fwiw for me incubator -> 1day chicks and insufferable heat [08:15]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, i dunno, sounds very stupidappeasing to me personally. but... your show. [08:15]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do we want a buncha patternmatchers anyway ? [08:15]
mircea_popescu: so they can grumble barely audibly until they built up enough mass to "fight unfairity" or whatever dumb shit ? [08:16]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: myeah I'd rather not do it my q is whether anyone sees any reason it would be worth it and apparently the answer is no (phew, I'm glad it is no, even) [08:16]
BingoBoingo: Here Incubator signals roughly the same thing cowork does, but in an older building, and without any ongoing operations anchoring the arrangement [08:16]
mircea_popescu: if you fuck them. [08:16]
mircea_popescu: otherwise... i can't imagine why the fuck. [08:16]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, his idea might be good, actually. what's the uk requirements for starting a private college ? [08:17]
diana_coman: to have marked them as pattern matchers, that was the crux of it. [08:17]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: I'll have to look into it properly and come back [08:17]
mircea_popescu: plox ty. [08:18]
diana_coman: and yes, I'd much rather do that! [08:18]
mircea_popescu: maybe that's the right move here, transform the badly mismanaged foundation, have it start a college. [08:18]
mircea_popescu: something's gotta be done about that, too, i dun recall right off but there's however many six figure dubaloos stuck there since last decade [08:18]
diana_coman: I'd love to. [08:18]
BingoBoingo: Anyways if there were 40+ warm bodies and a desire to stot I'd suggest https://archive.is/uYcck [08:19]
BingoBoingo: Any less than 18 and no way a cleaning rotation is covering that place [08:19]
mircea_popescu: haha old building, huh. those can be nightmareish if poorly built. [08:21]
mircea_popescu: dja know about building BingoBoingo ? [08:21]
diana_coman: and esp poor match when computers and networks are involved really [08:21]
mircea_popescu: holy sshit wut, 4.5mn ?! for 1200 sqm ? baby, in romania ~same is maaaybe 400k. [08:22]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have only Home Depot knowlede of how buildings age which overlaps poorly with the local stock of buildings here [08:22]
mircea_popescu: AND recent construction. and concrete / cellular autoclaved filler / etc. good stuff. [08:22]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Cursed bulding. retarded past occupants as per: "La propiedad estuvo alquilada hasta el 2016 por el Banco IDRC (International Divelopment Reserch Center) entidad Canadiense que hizo todas las prestaciones para los niveles de calidad que este tipo de empresa necesita, tanto a nivel de seguridad como de comodidades para trabajar, respetando el Patrimonio Histórico de la casa principal." [08:23]
mircea_popescu: nuts. [08:23]
BingoBoingo: Not a great location either [08:23]
BingoBoingo: Great location if all you care about is pointing all the antennas at the Spanish embassy, but otherwise... residential desert [08:24]
BingoBoingo: Homes on every side [08:24]
mircea_popescu: lotta that 1950s-80s warmbody storage zones in south america [08:25]
mircea_popescu: i expect they're going to incrementally improve on trotskysm cinematruck / rooseveltism "uber eats", just have a truck visit with supplies weekly. [08:26]
BingoBoingo: Filtering out stuff like that place is a part of the notes cleaning. The other part is shit that was at an interesting price point for the location selling. [08:26]
mircea_popescu: for everyone else, it'd be a concentration camp. but for the inmates -- it's home. [08:26]
BingoBoingo: lol [08:26]
BingoBoingo: Here's another way the fuck too proud pricing on a potential "INSTITUTO CULTURAL O DE ENSEÑANZA": https://archive.is/2lmyw [08:28]
BingoBoingo: The other common trap here on listing prices is they'll list what they want to walk away with and paying that leaves a balance with the banco hipotecario [08:30]
mircea_popescu: wut! [08:43]
mircea_popescu: these people are fucked in the head, what the fuck. [08:43]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934293 << why ? [08:45]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:49:11 asciilifeform: and that can search from www, without cluttering chans ( my bot doesn't do PM and i intend to keep it that way ) [08:45]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934300 << you actually don't even fucking need it it's a stop-gap measure. [08:45]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:51:08 trinque: heh, does this become an even better case for apache+php. "you only need it for search/comments/etc" [08:45]
mircea_popescu: but since we're here, let's actually use the infrastructure! [08:47]
mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/ [08:57]
mircea_popescu: except with also excerpt consisting of prefix / suffix one dozen words around each search term, separated by [...] magic string) as html files (date-time-terms.html) in a special /<botname>-search directory and b) takes irc trackbacks, to any article from trilema mentioned in the logs, [08:57]
mircea_popescu: the line where it was mentioned as text and the url to the logotron and c) deploys this to pizarro box (should be getting one presently i'm understanding) -- this step will also include putting a trilema clone in there (i'll provide the mp-wp install/db dumb, all that's needed is a mysql glue such that local myql server slaves trilema.com mysql server i intend to make a one line edit to the forms, such that comments le [08:57]
mircea_popescu: ft on what will be trilema.org get posted to trilema.com instead, and that's that). [08:57]
mircea_popescu: !Xbuy 100mn 144 item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following. [08:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/ [08:59]
auctionbot: Buy order # 1057 created by mircea_popescu: item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following. Opening: 100mn ecu Ending: 2019-09-12 20:26:41.479316 UTC (143 hours) [08:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/ [08:59]
* mircea_popescu thinks asciilifeform should also get something though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see. [09:01]
mircea_popescu: (ftr, this being a purely apache job, i do expect to see flask and crap taken out but othrweise no problem having actual channel sitting bot in python, doesn't hafta be rewritten or anything like that.) [09:07]
mircea_popescu: (perfectly acceptable for logger part of bot to consist of simply updating article in mpwp-posts, tagged as "logs" category, have one for each day. mp-wp will do the rest.) [09:09]
mircea_popescu: i think that just about covers it, hopefully. [09:10]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934312 << how did you counht ? to reiterate the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934257 point. [09:14]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:56:19 asciilifeform: trinque: i went to look at what is php made from ( given all the prodding by mircea_popescu ) and seems to weigh at least as much as the python toolchain [09:14]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:34:11 trinque: eh "this morning's experiments" don't appear to be on a blog or otherwise documented [09:14]
mircea_popescu: to close the larger point here : if we figure out a workable way to do the above, this will then necessarily ~monetize the patchchains~, resulting in fixed capital value for all existing chains based on their future-royalty value. [09:18]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:01:18 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see. [09:18]
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the philosophical implications of alternative-human-blockchain (which it is, yes, and which was LONG needed, hence all the 2013-era discussions of bitcoin alien inhumanity on trilema) -- this'll readily permit us to bezzle match the empire, because people can watch their investments appreciate here jsut as well as there. [09:19]
mircea_popescu: way the fuck better way to spend one's time than wanking over apple, in any case. and besides -- that's not even a v tree! [09:22]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in old lulz, http://trilema.com/2013/america-and-intellectual-relevance/ [10:01]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934316 << if this were true he'd have been using mod_python instead of flask. [10:10]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:59:52 trinque: the existence of mod_php isn't much of an argument either. there's mod_everything [10:10]
mircea_popescu: there's ~PRETENSE~ to everything very much no tthe same thing at all as actual ising [10:10]
mircea_popescu: some things elementary can't even be. what'd a mod_lisp be like, and how would it differ from http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-03#1933597 ? i expect the answer is "it differs -- in all the wrong ways". [10:18]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 21:34:37 trinque: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-03-sep-2019#2553266 << recently I torched my whole wad of elisp, got fed up with setting the dials on someone else's machine "just so" and calling the "just so" mine. [10:19]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934315 << yes dude, but when ~i~ was curious the result came as "depends what you count". extend the same courtesy wtf. [10:20]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:56:56 asciilifeform: well i was genuinely curious. for all i knew, lighter [10:20]
mircea_popescu: hm, asciilifeform did log crap out ? [10:27]
mircea_popescu: ah, back now. mkay. [10:28]
mircea_popescu: (to give out the full helping of lulz : as far as anyone knows, mod_php doesn't even exist. the cannonical repository sports a lulzily empty link the backup is our old friends' myspace, wherein the source is given as ftp://ftp.cac.washington.edu/imap which, needless to say, doesn't resolve. nor do the "mirror s [10:29]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 13:55:32 asciilifeform: same authors, iirc, ~same knobs. [10:30]
mircea_popescu: ites" -- most ofwhich dun even have imap, but even the oens that nomionally do : http://mirror.internet.tp/imap/ is dead, etc) [10:30]
mircea_popescu: i guess i should publish my ancient copy of imap just like with everything else or wtf. [10:31]
mircea_popescu: i guess i ate a semicolon up there. but anyways -- no, none of this shit actually exists. [10:32]
mircea_popescu: in any case, the net's been thoroughly scrubbed : http://il.php.net/get/php-4.4.8.tar.bz2/from/us.php.net/mirror no longer works (they even redirected the old /get/ directory to the manual now) the downloads studiously only includes the (entirely useless) 7 series. even lulzy spamsites a la http://www.oldapps.com/php_programming_language.php?old_php=13 are dead (the frontend works, but the [http://download.oldapps.com/PH [10:43]
mircea_popescu: P/php-4.4.8.tar.bz2][actual weightlifter] long gave up the ghost [10:43]
mircea_popescu: and so following. basically, php's been coopted into the tower of binaries. [10:44]
mircea_popescu: should i put a copy up somewhere so "oh, same as python" wank can continue on actual basis ? [10:48]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934318 << nevermind "martian". the table ante for this discussion is "perfectly functioning webserver with two decades history of the same". if it dun have that, it's not a fucking thing. [11:10]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:00:33 asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask folx to learn it tho ( asciilifeform in fact quite fond of forth, and used extensively. but i also recognize that to most people utterly 'martian' ) [11:10]
mircea_popescu: i dunno why this is obvious for people, but not obvious for concepts. a dead notion, such as "a great language nobody does anything useful in", be it lisp ~called~, forth, whatever the fuck, is just as much a language as harappan. [11:11]
mircea_popescu: a dude in his 30s without millions (plural) and slavegirls (plural) can have all the "potential" in his own mind / esteemed estimation of his fucktarder & impoverished peers. not a person. because that's table antes for personhood, forget about it. [11:12]
mircea_popescu: and just so, "great lang" that does nothing IS nothing. [11:12]
mircea_popescu: legends about. and sure, maybe forth is conceptually interesting. but it's not a programming language anymore than any []http://trilema.com/2017/i-think-they-might-be-overdoing-it-in-places/[random impudent dicklet] "opinions" on things. [11:14]
mircea_popescu: legends abound*. [11:14]
mircea_popescu: so -- sure, you like her, dumb as she is, enslave her, make her into something, then we can talk. but, from experience, "enthusiasm" at this "make her into something" soon enough revolves to http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934274 and, if kept silent, http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934487 also in short order. [11:16]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 21:41:37 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934003 << this is I think the subcurrent here. [11:16]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:45:45 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934254 << i think there's so much shame / self-loathing necessarily (and, for that matter, correctly) naturally associated by the mind with leaving here, i dinf it unsurprising dudes leave quietly. [11:16]
mircea_popescu: which takes us full circle : c is a thing because linux, and for as long as and inasmuch as linux. linux is a thing because apache / webservers. for as long and inasmuch etcetera. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: forth is not a thing. lisp is not a thing. on in this vein. [11:17]
mircea_popescu: i don't specifically care if they become things or not -- but i'd much rather not be asked to foot the bill for their becoming. let them do the work themfuckingselves, which is why i say : piggybacking even more stupid shit atop a tower of stupid shit we're allegedly trying to clean up is... well ? it's stupid! [11:18]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934319 << not fucking famously. let me show you how famously works, in reality. "mircea popescu had, famously, naked bitches at his beck and call". that's ~famous~. [11:22]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:01:07 asciilifeform: chuck moor had , famously , complete vlsi production plant in iirc 3k loc of forth . [11:22]
mircea_popescu: chuck moore had ~supposedly~. allegedly. in that manner, like danielpbarron has god and like usa has prosperity -- if you don't look too closely. [11:25]
snsabot: Logged on 2018-12-19 16:01:57 phf: asciilifeform: i have no issues with unfriendliness of your approach or it's secret busting nature. i'm trying different approach, and so far our success is identical in that it's 0. we're at a point where our mutual approaches can benefit, yet you deny me mine, periodically insulting it in creative ways. [11:25]
mircea_popescu: but i guarantee you if we actually reviewed the matter, it'd turn out to be exactly the same pile of mothridden useless dried out smegma all these other boi-"famous" turds ever turn out to be. [11:26]
mircea_popescu: chuck moore can be famous when he meets the bar to existence. when you can fucking LINK to the god damned "famous" things. [11:26]
mircea_popescu: until then, he's just another dicklet, equally capable of fame as any other item, which is to say precisely 0. [11:27]
mircea_popescu: chuck fucking max and tucker fucking moore, the famous tards of buried lands. [11:28]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934326 << inexplicably remains that you don't. [11:30]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:05:19 asciilifeform: on e.g. x86, a forth complete enuff that you could comfortably live the rest of your life in it, weighs about 1kB. [11:30]
mircea_popescu: where the fuck is the "oh, mp, here, forth!" answer when one asks ? what, "oh, but mp, i meant comfortable in the sense of exactly opposite of comfort, because i subscribe to imperial nominative conventions, everything's gonna be called the opposite of what it actually [11:34]
mircea_popescu: is" ?! [11:34]
mircea_popescu: oh, and is this a search bug, btw ? [11:34]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934341 << the iron peh costs, currently, excavating minds from asses. [11:35]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:09:45 trinque: even as prosthetic, not whole comp [11:35]
mircea_popescu: once that's done, i expect it'll be expensive but not untouchable. bout same as a house. [11:35]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934352 << this, actually, may be the thing that eventually fixes rsa keysizes for us, when we're finally there. [12:26]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:16:06 asciilifeform: aha. tho presently i doubt that it's physically possible to make a 4096x4096b multiplier converge in <1ns [12:26]
mircea_popescu: whatever, next Пятиле́тние пла́ны разви́тия наро́дного хозя́йства Союз Советских Социалистических Республик. [12:28]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934367 << i am and we will. [12:30]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:22:57 trinque: I wouldn't propose building the thing without first identifying the market. [12:30]
mircea_popescu: market schmarket, markets are created not identified. [12:30]
mircea_popescu: what, you think people went to indonesia looking for what europeans might've wanted ? [12:31]
mircea_popescu: "this is your tea your spices your golden fruit. eat them, like them, pay $$$ for them so we can turn around and use that to rape your daughters / evict you from your pastures / etc" [12:31]
mircea_popescu: that's how economy works at the scale here discussed, "and if you don't like it, get ready for valleyforge -- if you got it in you". [12:31]
mircea_popescu: that's your market identification right there, it's identified : i want to buy the washington monument for pennies. they'll sell it, as they have to, because they're old. [12:32]
mircea_popescu: mpex seat for ~value of usg "senator" wasn't some kinda idiosyncratic joke. it's how the future works. [12:33]
mircea_popescu: always has, too. [12:33]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934368 << how are these two at odds ? [12:34]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:24:24 trinque: the republic can't live correctly and expect folks to line up. the world's too far gone. money has to whip around in republic-shaped loops long enough to retrain enough human heads. [12:34]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934382 << practical network rates are more in the 1k/s or threabouts, certainly if sustained. 2*18 is not seen even in dedicated interchanges. [12:36]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:33:53 asciilifeform: a gb nic can theoretically swallow 2**18 512b packets / sec . [12:36]
mircea_popescu: peering cages see maybe 2**15, and that's the very core of the internet. [12:37]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934384 << yet all the good stuff that exists (i mean this in the most absoluely generall sense -- ALL of it) exists cuz we made it for ourselves. [12:38]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:34:28 trinque: I'd just want to know who we're selling to. ourselves isn't enough [12:38]
mircea_popescu: the correct decoupling is here : a) make what needs to be made, according to ~US~. nobody asks the fuck shitheads derpingabout anything [12:38]
mircea_popescu: b) SELL IT to them. forcibly. i do mean, at the point of the sword, rape them with it. [12:39]
* mircea_popescu inserts by reference the 5k threads on pizarro, "hey why the fuck aren't you out there pounding the world". [12:39]
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe this 5`001st reitreration is how things finally click in the castrated brain. YO! YOU'RE NOT LOOKING FOR FRIENDS! GO FORCE THE IDIOTS TO BUY! [12:40]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934393 << quite. [12:41]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:40:32 asciilifeform: whole thread nearly borders on sin, given as almost anyffin i say on the subj is likely to be catastrophically wrong. [12:41]
mircea_popescu: in any case, to re-reiterate : go out there and ~make~ them buy. ~MAKE~. "this is the thing, you must buy it". trebuie sa intelegi ca, what theyr [12:46]
mircea_popescu: 're used to, what they expect, what they need. what, you think inca makes sense ? inca dun make fucking sense, a competition in sense with inca's fucking nonsense. the competition's in tupeu, and ain't gonna nobody have more of that than us. [12:46]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934395 << it always was, dood. just because people don't customarily engage in what he's exactly right to call sinful, by reason of being so premature as to necessarily be doomed to stating idiocy, [12:47]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:40:58 trinque: I'm just glad to hear it's still on teh conveyor [12:47]
mircea_popescu: doesn't nevertheless mean it ain't in the plan. [12:47]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934398 << quote hanbot ~weekly, "damn, i wish i could draw!!!" [12:49]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:43:49 trinque: heh, this place needs a cartoonist so bad [12:49]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934407 << 0 in asia. [12:50]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:47:54 asciilifeform: how many even work any moar [12:50]
diana_coman: hm, I recall some illustrations hanbot made on a trilema article - fwiw I think she can draw actually. [12:51]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934408 << was outage before last, back in march [12:51]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:48:16 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu surveyed, and found that it was some laffably small # [12:51]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, yeah, if she ever gets a free minute. which she currentrly does, today, and otherwise last happened... um. pretty sure it was june [12:52]
diana_coman: ah, that I can fully believe indeed. [12:52]
mircea_popescu: me sitting around all day playing about takes a lot of fucking work. [12:52]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934570 - after a first look, it seems to me that it all depends on the degree to which one cares about "the system" personally I don't care and don't even want to make the venture "caring" but to know what I'm looking for: are their notions (eg of "degrees") of any interest at all? [13:31]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:33:10 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, his idea might be good, actually. what's the uk requirements for starting a private college ? [13:31]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, my thinking is that if you don't apply for bezzle, then it could perhaps be lightweight, easy to get. [13:32]
mircea_popescu: the idea is to exploit the socialism poverty hole. all sorta community colleges / 2 year technical colleges in ruralia would take ~anyone, including ~any soccer mom with a degree as a teacher. [13:33]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: there are 2 aspects: 1. whether you want to apply for bezzle 2. whether you want "recognised status" [13:33]
mircea_popescu: could just as well make one of those and make it small but excellent. use it to terribly disturb the statu quo, because it obviously goes against everything they've tacitly agreed upon [13:33]
mircea_popescu: what's the latter about ? [13:33]
diana_coman: to cite from gov.uk "if your degree is not from an officially recognised UK university or college, there's no guarantee it'll count when you're looking for a job" i.e. whether you are within the system or not, the way I read it. [13:34]
mircea_popescu: well, if we're not getting that, then we could just make a college by deedbot. [13:34]
diana_coman: basically: whether one has their stamp I'd rather NOT have it tbh. [13:34]
mircea_popescu: then you already have a college ? [13:34]
diana_coman: pretty much the only missing bit is a physical building. [13:35]
mircea_popescu: the idea is to fuck them up, not to politely ignore them. [13:35]
diana_coman: hm, I can see that point too [13:35]
mircea_popescu: you ain't getting a physical building without status, though, what sense'd that make ? [13:35]
diana_coman: I have trouble reasoning in terms of status coming from them, that's where I stumbled [13:35]
diana_coman: so let me see if I get the idea right: [13:36]
diana_coman: the point is to be able to give degrees they can't ignore/wave away , for stuff which is ours and as such probably mostly at odds with their ideas? [13:36]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, the idea is to have the #1 college in the uk for whatever specialty of your choice simultaneously a) 0 tuition b) "we don't take your govt scrip here" ie off their bezzle circuit and [13:39]
mircea_popescu: c) we don't take your elder sons/merit-washed eromenoi, fuck off, this is only for nazi kids. [13:39]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 00:25:44 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in random lulz : us citizen notable enough for ro.wikipedia but "unknown" by en.wikipedia [13:39]
mircea_popescu: then you get to go to regional teacher's conferences on the strength of "best in the country" but on a platform of "rape and pillage". [13:39]
mircea_popescu: let them dissonance over it. [13:40]
mircea_popescu: i expect the uk has bologna mandated standardized testing, yes ? [13:41]
mircea_popescu: fucking trivial to make a few kids ace those, they're written by bugmen for bugmen. [13:41]
* mircea_popescu fully expects the attempt will discover pile of debris muchly similar to http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/02/ossabot-and-its-flask-of-python-27-on-centos-6/ (and not necessarily any happy ending). but -- at least it'd be in writing. [13:42]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: the uk has a boatload of various tests and things not fully aligned (from my current knowledge of the domain, admiteddly limited) [13:43]
mircea_popescu: sure. [13:43]
mircea_popescu: still, this is definitely a vulnerable / sore spot in the imperial "clothing for nude emperors" pile. [13:44]
mircea_popescu: could as well exploit it as not. [13:44]
diana_coman: I'm at least curious about it for sure and somehow over the years, no matter where and how I turned around, sooner or later (usually sooner) I *still* end up touching on the educational sector, what can I say more. [13:45]
diana_coman: so I'll look up further and figure it out re recognised status and all that too. [13:47]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934724 - fwiw I think this is actually a reasonably good description - I tend to politely ignore, yes. [13:48]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:50:36 mircea_popescu: the idea is to fuck them up, not to politely ignore them. [13:48]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934740 - possibly also added lolz just because of a. UK's pride and joy in "educational services" b. the whole roar re tuition and funding [13:57]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 09:59:41 mircea_popescu: still, this is definitely a vulnerable / sore spot in the imperial "clothing for nude emperors" pile. [13:57]
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/09/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-v/ << Bimbo Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714 - Part V. [14:00]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, ayup. [14:10]
mircea_popescu: and you know, if we manage to get this going, it then follows, in-yo-face, angry "your college is wasting your money" billboards, 100% all in scanda. [14:10]
mircea_popescu: scandal* [14:11]
mircea_popescu: basically, we've been diligently building vapors over the years. looking for a spark. [14:11]
diana_coman: I would surely hope so though you know, seeing how the bac data stuff went with those concerned focusing on "why are you doing this??" and ~nothing else, I wouldn't even be sure of anything. [14:12]
mircea_popescu: well, surety's for the grave. but anyways. [14:14]
diana_coman: true. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: funeriu was pretty boiled back then. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: aaanyways, uk is dissolved almost entirely, yes 1980s thatcher's uk would have fucking imploded if we did something like this whereas 2020s may uk... well... just look at the whole eu debacle, they're a joke. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: but, what ca you do. i wasn't an adult in the 80s. [14:14]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934414 << prolly a baked in fixnum from the days of the ancients no current scriptkiddy can touch. i say this because the identify nick response also 30 seconds. [14:15]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 22:50:06 asciilifeform: trinque: i found , when experimented, that you have just about half minute! to answer their ping [14:15]
diana_coman: aha. [14:15]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934485 << poor alf, prolly been trying to wake up since six hours ago [14:18]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:23:01 asciilifeform: will comment on mircea_popescu's other observations when wakes up. [14:18]
hanbot: speaking of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934455 lulz: wasn't that chick from the same Evanston, IN mentioned in ye oddball spam? [14:32]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:24:56 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-29#1931863 << keks, so what, i been talking of harems &c for a decade+, yet peeps been just assuming i'm fantasizing or something ? [14:32]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 13:08:32 asciilifeform: meanwhile in vintage oddball spam via mircea_popescu's link. [14:32]
hanbot: 'cause it seems you reliably get exactly the kinda "camp follower" that goes along with girls some angry old dude comes to trilema like *once*, leaves rambling comment, dissipates back into the biomass. [14:33]
mircea_popescu: heh [14:47]
mircea_popescu: that's right isn't it [14:47]
hanbot: btw, since i have your ear: is the harappan reference a nod to all its extant scripts being very short? [14:59]
mircea_popescu: yes. [15:08]
trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934490 << stood up my own paster here, will be using from now on http://paste.deedbot.org/ [15:09]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:50:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934268 << ok, so did you also inherit the code/domain etc ? or should i rush through some replacements, eg spyked's imgpaster ? or what here ? [15:09]
mircea_popescu: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0e37bfb7a7e789967a632d01769f79cf << terribru [15:09]
mircea_popescu: 4 chars plox, base64. can't type this shit by hand [15:10]
trinque: whatcha want [15:10]
trinque: k [15:10]
mircea_popescu: ty [15:10]
mircea_popescu: also what's the bash snippet to write to it ? [15:10]
mircea_popescu: previous one was... hm, /me digs logs [15:10]
trinque: I'll stick it on the page here in a bit, gonna snag coffee and be back [15:10]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-02-03#1892065 there [15:12]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-02-03 12:27:29 mircea_popescu: in other news, mp's own bash grenadiers regiment suggests an ad interim solution for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891951 in the shape of ls | grep ^x..$' | while read line do curl -Ls -o /dev/null -w %{url_effective} -X POST -F "pastebox=@$line" http://p.bvulpes.com -w %{url_effective} done [15:12]
* asciilifeform wakes up, eats backbreaker l0gz.. [15:15]
mircea_popescu: epic day huh [15:21]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934436 << the american generals of '50s had somewhat similar concept, 'ooda loop' [15:50]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 00:55:08 mircea_popescu: call that P. meanwhile output, or productivity, is expressed as a different scalar, call it W. [15:50]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934457 << in orig q i was thinking 'does this personage correspond to a wot key', prolly oughta have said concretely. ( if mircea_popescu had revealed the chix's human name, this would not have meant anyffin to asciilifeform et al ) [15:52]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:28:50 mircea_popescu: anyway, biosacks only need names if they're about to log here. both hanbot an' nicoleci are on, and so far what you lot wanna use them for is rather punching bags, from experience, so i don't see the urgency in naming anyone else. [15:52]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934474 << but, lol, actual mircea_popescu never says anyffin of the kind -- always gives concrete barf when finds bug. so why then. [15:52]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:01:04 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934257 << there's a lot of cvasi-effort/idle pullulation in the wanna-be cloud sharply directed at "being mp on the cheap". he figures he'll be cool if he says that, which is why he does. [15:52]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934477 << archaeological find. manufacturer was 1 of the 2 castles where sovok built nukes , accelerators, related hardware. [15:54]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:04:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934252 << lol what is this, fallout the rl game ? [15:54]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934490 << also relevantly, if ben is down w/out being rebootable, mod6 needs a new co-chair in tbf [15:55]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 02:50:22 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934268 << ok, so did you also inherit the code/domain etc ? or should i rush through some replacements, eg spyked's imgpaster ? or what here ? [15:55]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934537 << this is troo, could cache search pgs at the current rate and not fill disk in 100y [15:56]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 03:51:59 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934288 << you're not thinking this through. what's a page, <100kb ? what's the daily output, 100 of these ? you're comitting to 10mb / day thereby ? ie a hour's blockchain ? this too much to ask for the republic ? [15:56]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934607 << interesting idea, but plox to give detailed spec, i suspect no one can bake based on the 3ln given [15:57]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: the line where it was mentioned as text and the url to the logotron and c) deploys this to pizarro box (should be getting one presently i'm understanding) -- this step will also include putting a trilema clone in there (i'll provide the mp-wp install/db dumb, all that's needed is a mysql glue such that local myql server slaves trilema.com mysql server i intend to make a one line edit to the forms, such that comments le [15:57]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934613 << why ty. [15:58]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:01:18 mircea_popescu: thinks asciilifeform should also get something though it's unclear how exactly to figure this out. but -- lacking a better idea, i guess he can have 10% of the winning bid in royalties and we see. [15:58]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934617 << i dun have a serious output for that q yet, will come back to it . [15:58]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 05:14:04 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934312 << how did you counht ? to reiterate the http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934257 point. [15:58]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934642 << if it's to live, gotta cement it into trinque's collection, yes [15:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 06:48:09 mircea_popescu: should i put a copy up somewhere so "oh, same as python" wank can continue on actual basis ? [15:59]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934643 << forth will be ~5~ decades next yr. [16:00]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:10:00 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934318 << nevermind "martian". the table ante for this discussion is "perfectly functioning webserver with two decades history of the same". if it dun have that, it's not a fucking thing. [16:00]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934647 << thing has install base that dwarfs apache. ( it's in the bootloader of erry single sgi, sun, even crapple box sold to date in 1e6 pieces of embedded equip., and whole buncha 'unsexy' irons, from mains transformers, burglar alarms, etc., possibly even in yer mercedes. ) [16:01]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:12:55 mircea_popescu: and just so, "great lang" that does nothing IS nothing. [16:01]
asciilifeform: doesn't figure prominently in opensores liquishit -- is tru [16:02]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934654 << if you dun see sumthing with naked eye, dun mean it aint there. [16:02]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:17:58 mircea_popescu: forth is not a thing. lisp is not a thing. on in this vein. [16:02]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934655 << appeal of forth is that there ~aint~ a 'tower'. i.e. can stand up all the compiler you need in coupla 100 bytes. [16:03]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:18:44 mircea_popescu: i don't specifically care if they become things or not -- but i'd much rather not be asked to foot the bill for their becoming. let them do the work themfuckingselves, which is why i say : piggybacking even more stupid shit atop a tower of stupid shit we're allegedly trying to clean up is... well ? it's stupid! [16:03]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934661 >> e.g. http://www.greenarraychips.com/ . or the fact that his book was translated and printed in run of 1e6 even in sovok. but i expect 'not famous enuff' to mircea_popescu , cuz aint in his personal kit ? or wat. [16:05]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:26:50 mircea_popescu: chuck moore can be famous when he meets the bar to existence. when you can fucking LINK to the god damned "famous" things. [16:05]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934664 << i also haven't learned hieroglyphs and moved to pekin. doesn't mean that couldn't, or at some point won't come to it. [16:06]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:30:09 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934326 << inexplicably remains that you don't. [16:06]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934668 << this is serious bugola. i'ma take a look. [16:07]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:34:07 mircea_popescu: oh, and is this a search bug, btw ? [16:07]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934686 << yer figure is unrealistically pessimistic, 1k * 512b == 512kB/s . there indeed is overhead in nic etc, but udp packets can be received at very close to rated capacity of pipe. [16:09]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 08:36:48 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934382 << practical network rates are more in the 1k/s or threabouts, certainly if sustained. 2*18 is not seen even in dedicated interchanges. [16:09]
asciilifeform: the orig q was re line rate of nic. but even the modest piz pipe , 200Mbit/s , is good for ~50k 512B packets / sec , when otherwise unloaded. [16:13]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934677 << this is entirely troo ( recall the infamous ibm derp's 'there is a world market for perhaps 6 computers' ? ) [16:18]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 08:30:48 mircea_popescu: market schmarket, markets are created not identified. [16:18]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934692 << the tricky bit is that to sell sumthing, it gotta exist 1st. ( granted various hucksters manage to 'sell' thin air, but this is outside the scope imho ) [16:22]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 08:39:00 mircea_popescu: b) SELL IT to them. forcibly. i do mean, at the point of the sword, rape them with it. [16:22]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934699 << in the orig. '17 thread re 'make cpu', mircea_popescu made the observation 'the sticker prices have 3 or 4 extra zeros on'em', i.e. pointless to even ask the q before we have penetration into the asian snakepits where iron is actually baked. without such, we're stuck looking at the chump ratecards. [16:24]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 08:47:46 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934395 << it always was, dood. just because people don't customarily engage in what he's exactly right to call sinful, by reason of being so premature as to necessarily be doomed to stating idiocy, [16:24]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934772 << neato, trinque . plz consider to genesis the thing, so can have multiple redundant pastetrons, as with logger [16:26]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 11:09:14 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934490 << stood up my own paster here, will be using from now on http://paste.deedbot.org/ [16:26]
* asciilifeform finally swallowed log [16:26]
* lobbes is about to begin second pass of log...  [16:32]
billymg: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1933994 << completely true, and i agree with asciilifeform, i'm a fan of The Tar Pit's theme (i'm also partial to trinque's theme) [16:39]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-06 04:37:22 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-04#1933694 <-- ftr, I'm pretty sure that the same coat can be applied to mp-wp without much effort. so if e.g. billymg is interested, I can provide him with everything he needs tho the blog is online already, not especially difficult to see how the webpage is structured. [16:39]
asciilifeform: re forth -- it's cemented in ANSI X3.215 (1994--current) (1st in 1980!), ISO/IEC 15145 (1997--current) . rather like ada, dead tree standard. and quite unlike e.g. python, php. ( and unlike cl , is actually possible to program in the lang as specified in the standard. ) [16:39]
billymg: without going into too much detail my current mp-wp roadmap is: 1) finish writing tests, 2) mass delete cruft/unnecessary "features", 3) formalize a republican theme (or a few themes) [16:40]
billymg: though perhaps some of 2 can be done, then 3, then back to more 2 [16:41]
asciilifeform: ( 'peh', fwiw, is NOT a standard-compliant forth, i committed quite deliberately war crimes against the classical standard in order to make the parser as simple as physically possible, to make all operators weigh 1 or 2 chars ) [16:42]
* asciilifeform bbl:teatime [16:43]
mircea_popescu: https://oi.uchicago.edu//research/publications/assyrian-dictionary-oriental-institute-university-chicago-cad << in other ways to spend lots of money, how about 20 volumes worth of dictionaries of proto-hebrew [16:52]
mircea_popescu: nfi what anyoned do with a lang that requires a literal meter of shelf for the dict nor do i know many people who ever read twenty english dictionaries. but there it is nevertheless. [16:52]
mircea_popescu: go forth an' complain about ruby nao :D [16:53]
mircea_popescu: (not fluff, either, 500page folio backbreakers) [16:53]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934794 << honestly i think the whole foundaton thing needs restructuring current structure failed repeated treboot attempts and does not look even theoretically rebootable. [16:56]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 11:55:06 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934490 << also relevantly, if ben is down w/out being rebootable, mod6 needs a new co-chair in tbf [16:56]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934798 << how about i answer concrete qs ? that's pretty much all i know how to say atm. [16:56]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 11:57:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934607 << interesting idea, but plox to give detailed spec, i suspect no one can bake based on the 3ln given [16:56]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934804 << well, but cement which ? last 4 main branch ? [16:57]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 11:59:34 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934642 << if it's to live, gotta cement it into trinque's collection, yes [16:57]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934808 << was not discussing forth was discussing the actual item you applied the "famously" to, namely "complete vlsi production plant in iirc 3k loc of forth". [16:58]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:01:57 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934647 << thing has install base that dwarfs apache. ( it's in the bootloader of erry single sgi, sun, even crapple box sold to date in 1e6 pieces of embedded equip., and whole buncha 'unsexy' irons, from mains transformers, burglar alarms, etc., possibly even in yer mercedes. ) [16:58]
mircea_popescu: ~that~. specifically. [16:58]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934815 << cuz where is the allegedly famous 3k lines of forth making complete vlsi plant. [16:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:05:12 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934661 >> e.g. http://www.greenarraychips.com/ . or the fact that his book was translated and printed in run of 1e6 even in sovok. but i expect 'not famous enuff' to mircea_popescu , cuz aint in his personal kit ? or wat. [16:59]
mircea_popescu: i tried chuckmoore.com/famous-3k-lines-forth-making-complete-vlsi-plant, found not. taking suggestions for improved method. [17:00]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934821 << not irl. large packet flow is, you'll perhaps discover, one of the most "oversold" ie fraudulently misrepresented items in nature. much like the city comes put faucets into yur house but you can't run them 24/7, except ^8. [17:01]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:09:30 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934686 << yer figure is unrealistically pessimistic, 1k * 512b == 512kB/s . there indeed is overhead in nic etc, but udp packets can be received at very close to rated capacity of pipe. [17:01]
mircea_popescu: isp will throw fit if you're even within 1% of 1% of this theoretical maximum, rated capacity. [17:01]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there [17:02]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934823 << again, not irl. and i don't even advise trying this out [17:02]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 12:13:38 asciilifeform: the orig q was re line rate of nic. but even the modest piz pipe , 200Mbit/s , is good for ~50k 512B packets / sec , when otherwise unloaded. [17:02]
* asciilifeform still not fully quaffed tea, brb  [17:02]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, umm... that's a ~description~. [17:02]
mircea_popescu: i mean the 3k lines of forth ? [17:03]
mircea_popescu: again -- http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934656 INCLUDES THE ITEMS. not a story of the items. ~THE~ items. [17:03]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 07:22:48 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934319 << not fucking famously. let me show you how famously works, in reality. "mircea popescu had, famously, naked bitches at his beck and call". that's ~famous~. [17:03]
mircea_popescu: can't be famous on stories. [17:03]
mircea_popescu: you understand this ? http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/ contains ~THE ACTUAL EMAISL~. with the dumb bitches' name. and http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-i/ inclkudes ~the actual filings~. not "a summary", not some fucking whisperings. [17:04]
mircea_popescu: which is why i'm famous for being tyhe guy that sent the irs packing / tore fetlife a new one. cuz ~it is actually there~. concretely. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: why the fuck's this not connecting ? [17:05]
mircea_popescu: he can be respected, if you're looking fo rsomething. "chuck moore is respected [by alf] for having written 3k lines of forth capable of making chips". [17:06]
mircea_popescu: when he actually does something, he can also be famous. but so far... [17:06]
mircea_popescu: doesn't strike me as that unreasonable a standard but if it is -- fuck reason, i'm married to this standard before and beyond any fucking reason (not to mention -- before any sort of reason inkled in young mp's skull). so if something between this standard and reason [17:07]
mircea_popescu: 's gotta go -- i have 0 problem choosing. [17:07]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: half of this is fair cut. moor does in fact sell chip ( and incidentally comes, unlike ~errything else on market, with full datashit ). but afaik the full src of the cad system was not published, to date. ( it's how he eats. ) so comes down to matter of heuristic, 'does exist, or is charlatan ?' based on d00d's work to date, and the published material re 'greenarray' product on sale, i'm inclined to say 'exists, worx [17:49]
asciilifeform: as described'. but cannot put the src in mircea_popescu's nose to prove point. [17:49]
asciilifeform: fwiw i suspect the fella would be here if he weren't 90 y.o. [17:49]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934857 << why do you suppose piz pipe, 200Mb/s costs ~1k$/mo , while in timis 1Gb/s advertised at 10 $ ? the industrial pipe can, and in fact does (lately) run at ~100% capacity for weeks on end. which is not to say that there aint scam providers which will try to throttle a customer to less than he paid. simply, piz did not suffer the misfortune of sitting under any such. [17:52]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 13:01:29 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934821 << not irl. large packet flow is, you'll perhaps discover, one of the most "oversold" ie fraudulently misrepresented items in nature. much like the city comes put faucets into yur house but you can't run them 24/7, except ^8. [17:52]
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934859 << calculate, for own satisfaction, what rate packets when you download e.g. http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/static/log_db.gz . [17:53]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 13:01:50 mircea_popescu: isp will throw fit if you're even within 1% of 1% of this theoretical maximum, rated capacity. [17:53]
asciilifeform: hmm apparently i was wrong re 'okad'. appears to be a circa-2012 snapshot. nao if i had the free hands to try an' run ! [17:57]
asciilifeform: poor chuck moor, apparently too sclerotic to link from own www... [17:58]
asciilifeform: ^ item appears to boot as own os, on pc. [17:59]
asciilifeform: iirc 1 of the meanwhile vanished folx ( mats? ) actually bought a 'greenarrays' board. hey mats, are you alive ? what happened to this? [18:00]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: what's your history with forth anyway because now I'm totally confused: are you actually using it? for what? why not? or uhm, how come it popped up now but not before? [18:00]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: my only current use is 'peh', which is based on it. in previous times used hand-sewn forths in embedded boxen. [18:01]
diana_coman: so why only this limited use? [18:01]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: asciilifeform is originally a lisp crackpot, rather than forth crackpot. forth is arguably 'polar opposite' , there is no gc, or 'raw ast' syntax, in fact no syntax in the familiar sense ( since you've studied 'peh' this summary oughta make sense. ) so best summary would be, i dun ~like~ forth, simply keep coming back to it because it appears to be the only known solution point in the domain space of 'most physically-com [18:03]
asciilifeform: pact possible programming system on von neumann iron' [18:03]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: since I can't say I know *what* you like, that part is not very clear to me: what is it that you don't like about it? [18:05]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, still not famous. marginalyl maybe not charlatan, if you say so, sure. [18:06]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: primarily -- the intrinsic difficulty of reading. reader is stuck parsing out the ast using bare hands. it is possible to make the work easier, and i tried e.g. here . but remains painful for most folx. [18:06]
mircea_popescu: retrospecitvely we were never right to date when extended such credit. every single of doznes of cases turned out to be... not what "presumably" [18:06]
mircea_popescu: but that is also a matter of heuristic [18:07]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i aint about to try to persuade mircea_popescu to buy 1e6 'greenarray' or moor's cad etc. but i'm ~satisfied that it ~exists~ and worx as described, atm. [18:08]
asciilifeform: ( may in fact be the only non-winblows vlsi system currently in use , even. ) [18:08]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934887 << it pops up periodically when he's feeling melancholy, "oh, this spherical battleship that submerges & floats, coulda etc". but when pushed, not lives in because not gone to pekin and also http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-04#1933662 etc [18:09]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 14:00:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform: what's your history with forth anyway because now I'm totally confused: are you actually using it? for what? why not? or uhm, how come it popped up now but not before? [18:09]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 11:18:52 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-04#1933632 << i'ma move from emacs to 21st c. lispm. or, to grave. tertium non datur. [18:09]
mircea_popescu: it's complicated, being an alf. [18:09]
asciilifeform: what i wish i could do, is to catch moor and hang him upside down and connect to 220v, and get him to confess how he got vlsi fabbed w/out the 'mandatory' winblows mask liquishit. [18:09]
asciilifeform: but 'if wishes were horses...'(tm)(r) [18:09]
mircea_popescu: he last did this back when symbolics was a thing. [18:09]
mircea_popescu: not last week, not last year, not last decade. long long ago [18:10]
mircea_popescu: in a practically useless way for entirely irrelevant by now purposes etc. [18:10]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol 1994 [18:10]
mircea_popescu: a ok. ONLY five five year plans ago [18:10]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i spent ~decade e.g. knowing about ada but avoiding cuz 'dun like'. it was stupid. [18:11]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934889 << for the obvious fucking reason! rocker goes to mountain, "oh, i wish i could live here" "really bitch ? and what about tp ?" "oh, i'd use leaves!!!" after a week of wiping ass on pine cones... ready to grumbingly but grudgingly hit the first walmart [18:12]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 14:01:44 diana_coman: so why only this limited use? [18:12]
diana_coman: bwahahaha & poor pine cones. [18:12]
asciilifeform: sometimes the 'dun like' item is the only working tool known, to the point that if you try to redesign it from scratch, will end up with ~same thing but moar inept. [18:12]
mircea_popescu: no but it's so PURE!!! [18:12]
mircea_popescu: and SIMPLE! [18:12]
asciilifeform: as mircea_popescu knows full well, nuffin is 'simple' on pc. but there's degrees of bulk. [18:13]
mircea_popescu: "yes, mutha, and PAINFUL!" "oh we dont' talk about that in this fantasyworld" [18:13]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 01:04:05 mircea_popescu: there's further implications but, to fit the point back to narrow interest : saying the tools are already there is not even stupid, it's entirely besides the point. the only effectual question is, "has the lowest possible P in theory been actually realised in practice". [18:13]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i have no objection to making the future tmsr iron run forth, as things stnad right now. [18:14]
mircea_popescu: still doesn't make chuck moore's putative 1990s vlsi-er anything other than php. because what did it do, 15 cells ? o noes, centimetre process ? HARDWORK [18:14]
asciilifeform: possibly i did an epicly inept job in this thread. but was trying to say 'i dun like forth -- but may be condemned to it by The Essences(tm)(r)' [18:15]
* mircea_popescu could probably write a better router than whatever the fuck that was in bash [18:15]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: but exactly because of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934910 I just can't get the idea of "don't like" when asked re forth [18:15]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 14:27:33 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i spent ~decade e.g. knowing about ada but avoiding cuz 'dun like'. it was stupid. [18:15]
mircea_popescu: BY EMPLOYING LOOKUP TABLES [18:15]
asciilifeform: if tomorrow mircea_popescu orders 'boot me up pc in asm into sumthing i can send packets from' it'll be in a forth. [18:16]
diana_coman: obviously and proven the "don't like" is not good so ... [18:16]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i can't speak for erryone, but found that ~whole of education consists in swallowing 'not likes' and ~then~ thinking. rather than how kid comes from cradle, 'i dun like, won't think' [18:17]
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with that! [18:17]
mircea_popescu: the extent of my lambasting was re dead bones fame, no more. i'm not impugning random lang here. [18:18]
diana_coman: asciilifeform: since you state it, I'm sure it's precisely that for you and fwiw I'm sure you are not the only one in this either. [18:20]
asciilifeform: i recall when 1st time picked up a 30kg sledge hammer. 'uhh how do people work with this.' after day or 2 of driving in stakes, felt entirely ordinary. [18:20]
asciilifeform: e.g. ada was ~identical experience. [18:21]
asciilifeform: speaking of hammers, [18:24]
* asciilifeform bbl:meat chores [18:24]
mircea_popescu: i'd have expected that be "speaking of stakes" [18:46]
snsabot: Logged on 2016-04-01 12:23:55 asciilifeform: is on the spin cycle of the day's stake, when the barbs come out [18:46]
mircea_popescu: and speaking of false religions and extremely popular delusions : 𒆪𒋾𒀀𒂍𒈗𒊏 [18:49]
mircea_popescu: that's a name, in cuneiform, of a sort of akkadian lenin in the assyrian empire. he butchered the previous royal fambly and greatly improved the efficiency of the bureaucracy. [18:50]
mircea_popescu: the name, however, translates as "my faith is in the son of the eshara". that'd be ashur, of course. [18:50]
mircea_popescu: the only problem with this very specifically identycal jesus of the pre-xtian sectarian disturbances in the assyrian empire is that... well ? guy lived 8th century BEFORE the supposed appearance of... the son of [18:51]
mircea_popescu: exact same formalisms, it was like a sorta joke / toast, in the akkadia of 3000 years ago, "oh, son of god herpy derp" [18:52]
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934609 << ftr I am seriously considering bidding on this, but first I want to be clear on if I am understanding correctly all portions of the ask. I'll bake a post tonight breaking this down / asking smart questions for clarity [19:14]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:59:13 mircea_popescu: !Xbuy 100mn 144 item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following. [19:14]
lobbes: first though, I'm still log spelunking re: bot reconnect. Namely what is taking me so long here is that I went to check apache access log (to rule out a ddos) only to discover... it ain't logging anymore! I suspect I nuked a crucial module somewhere when I was trying to get the proxy stuff working [19:14]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 00:26:53 lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934071 << about to head to bed, but tomorrow morning I'm gonna do some deep log spelunking and investigating and report findings in a blog post. [19:14]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/09/all-seal-team-7-leaders-purged-by-us-navy-brass/ << Qntra -- All SEAL Team 7 Leaders Purged By US Navy Brass [19:29]
* BingoBoingo eats megalog and presents COLOR REVOLUTION BLUE [19:29]
mircea_popescu: lobbes, works. [20:02]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, lulzy shit. [20:03]
BingoBoingo: Lots of lulzy shit recently [20:06]
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local bus ads https://i.redd.it/r0teqcu5f7l31.jpg [20:07]
BingoBoingo: And in the lulziest of local lulz https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Un-militar-profugo-condenado-por-Plan-Condor-hizo-un-tramite-para-cobrar-jubilacion-uc729212 [20:21]
BingoBoingo: "En este sentido, dijo que los militares no tienen la obligación de saber sobre qué personas rigen órdenes de detención, por lo que puede ser entendible que no se haya detenido al momento del trámite, "la que sí tiene conocimiento de esto es la Policía"." [20:21]
mircea_popescu: vos ? da fuck is this familiarity. [20:42]
trinque: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ud5L << bada boom [20:43]
trinque: thinking of turning this into a little wp plugin. useful? [20:43]
mircea_popescu: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=k_KE << heh [20:43]
mircea_popescu: useful. [20:43]
mircea_popescu: could it just be alphanum tho. no point doing _ etc [20:44]
mircea_popescu: 37^4 = 1874161, no way anyone's doing 2mn pastes/week [20:45]
trinque: sure, that works. I just reached for base64 as per last thread [20:45]
trinque: if we give utterly not a shit re: enumerability, can be serial int [20:46]
mircea_popescu: we do give. [20:49]
trinque: alrighty [20:49]
mircea_popescu: previous set had 5 digits. i was thinking of saving the typing... but are you saying 2mn too narrow, ennumerable ? [20:50]
trinque: I'd have to stress test the thing to say, but response time over here is about a half second. ignoring parallelism 172800 req per day (assuming pastes expire after 24hr) [20:56]
lobbes: iirc previous paste-o-tron expired 'em after a week [21:50]
trinque: > Purges pastes older than a week every twenty four hours. [21:54]
trinque: you are correct [21:54]
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934492 - asciilifeform , as far as I see, there's a bug at setting the time_last_conn at a reconnection, hence the wrong result of uptime irc() method is missing the "global time_last_conn" when it sets the value so the set is lost. [22:19]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 03:06:30 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-06#1934178 - did not test but apparently bot tested it so I'll have at least one data point to look at when I get to it. [22:19]
diana_coman: as to *what* caused the reconnect, I can't say I know exactly: the bot's log duly reports a "listen socket error, disconnecting", followed by the expected reconnect but I can't see / don't know where to look, possibly for anything more informative. [22:21]
diana_coman: in any case, atm the bot's uptime command will in fact report "time since last run of the bot" rather than since last connection [22:24]
diana_coman: since it was quiet otherwise anyway, I made the change and restarted ossabot so I'll see the effect @ next socket error, I suppose [22:26]
lobbes: diana_coman: this was what I found too re: logs (listen socket error). Paste for reference: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=2qou [22:38]
lobbes: I'll make the change on my end as well re: the time_last_conn (ty for the info diana_coman) [22:48]
lobbes: I also am not sure what caused the reconnect (hence my tangent into the apache logs). However I finally got my access logs working again so I'll have those available the next time it disconnects at least [22:50]
lobbes: (ftr, the cause of my apache access logs not functioning was indeed that I nuked a module in my attempts to get proxying working. Specifically, I nuked the "mod_log_config" and "mod_logio".. oy) [22:52]
lobbes: !!up ericbot [23:55]
deedbot: ericbot voiced for 30 minutes. [23:55]
lobbes: !e uptime [23:55]
ericbot: lobbes: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m [23:55]
lobbes: ok, I've got diana_coman's fix applied and have also synced my logs across all chans [23:59]
lobbes: e.g. my #t log's 1934984 = alf's and so on [23:59]
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-07 23:55:22 ericbot: lobbes: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m [23:59]
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 20:38:33 ericbot: lobbes: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m [23:59]
Category: Logs
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    I suppose we could call this a State of the Sadness ; or other things on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (via Pingback)
    Friday, 28 August 2020

    [...] entire world ; then tell me again why I should give shit one over some rando shithead or other's inability to leave the safety of mommy's basement. Really, you think I should care ? Well... I [...]

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