Forum logs for 22 May 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:

mircea_popescu:	duuude.	[00:11]
mod6:	http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-21-may-2018#2441002 << This sounds good to me, although, perhaps maybe consider the 'over 50'. As by this, one would not be very motivated to pass 51.	[00:14]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-21 22:47 ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform: a sales incentive scheme proposal: we kick back 5% of revenue to affiliates who've recruited up to 10 paying customers, 10% up to 25 paying customers, 15% to 50 customers and then 20% for recruiting over 50 customers, which'd be a tidy .03 btc/mo, way better than any other "while you sleep" scheme out there.	[00:14]
mircea_popescu:	mod6, why not ? pays better than starting over neh.	[00:17]
mod6:	Well, if you get 15% when you get to 50, and 20% at 51. Just thinking maybe bump it up. 20% at 75 or something.	[00:19]
mod6:	Graduate the scale on the long end, tis all.	[00:19]
mod6:	or, bump it down in the middle maybe: 5% @ 10, 10% @ 25, 15% @ 40, 20% >= 50 (something like that)	[00:24]
mod6:	doesn't have to be, just my 0.02	[00:25]
mircea_popescu:	Mocky, that was a pretty good read.	[00:26]
mircea_popescu:	mod6, ah, sure. can't say i've thought about it much nor have an oppinion. just a set of magic numbers afaik.	[00:26]
Mocky:	thx	[00:36]
mircea_popescu:	Mocky, for the completeness list, http://btcbase.org/log/2012-08-21#-307780 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-28#1114017 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-01#1117963 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-21#1246852 http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-12#1430987 though these are more for the flavour and color than all that central.	[00:47]
a111:	Logged on 2012-08-21 09:20 mircea_popescu: honestly i thought ruby is dead like ada.	[00:47]
a111:	Logged on 2015-04-28 17:29 mircea_popescu: because much like ada, brainfuck is an actually specified language	[00:47]
a111:	Logged on 2015-05-01 17:16 mircea_popescu: the path from the current FOSS, roughly approximating a spunk-crusted sock floating in a pringles can half full with week old urine	[00:47]
a111:	Logged on 2015-08-21 03:41 mircea_popescu: yeah. hey, anyone looking for something to do that'd be useful and also an incredible walk on coals ?	[00:47]
a111:	Logged on 2016-03-12 00:38 mircea_popescu: why not read the documentation ?	[00:47]
Mocky:	I will add	[00:54]
mircea_popescu:	i'm more curious whether you had seen them. doesn't necessarily have to be any larger than it is.	[00:54]
Mocky:	I saw the first two and omitted as not about why. the last three did not see, reading now	[00:55]
mircea_popescu:	yeah. kinda the problem with any attempt at summarizing logs, there's this long tail of ever less related stuff.	[00:56]
Mocky:	less related yes, but I must admit to spending much longer than strictly necessary for this task via continuing to read well past the topic in mind	[00:58]
mircea_popescu:	didja finish trilema yet ?	[01:02]
Mocky:	not finish, but did actually take a stab at some ro articles, via google translate. ha ha so much for google's ai, translate's not worth a damn	[01:04]
mircea_popescu:	google translate works exceedingly well on text not worth reading.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu:	kinda what this is about, yes ? admirable translation from english into orcland of bureaucratese, so that the overarching goal of esl bureaucracy (integration of worldwide police state at speed that exceeds integration of worldwide world in general) can be supported.	[01:07]
mircea_popescu:	it's not a "general purpose" item.	[01:07]
mircea_popescu:	it's an item borne of the fundamentally correct observation that speed of integration is the principal predictor of maintenance of statu quo.	[01:08]
mircea_popescu:	this paradigm readily explains the soviet state - "rock and roll" relationship, and moreover that historical accident had a lot to do with why alphabet even ~exists~ today. otherwise, on the naked strength of imaginary "advertising revenue" google is worth ~dozen stackexchanges/slashdots/sourceforges. but, generals always fight last year's war, and so here we are, "bayesian lesswisdom".	[01:11]
Mocky:	what is the soviet state rock and roll relationship?	[01:14]
mircea_popescu:	it's two pronged. on one hand, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=vhs+america on the other hand http://trilema.com/2011/un-rasad-uscat/ https://www.pri.org/stories/2011-05-19/how-rock-and-roll-brought-soviet-union-down https://blogs.lt.vt.edu/aalrussia2014/2014/12/07/behind-the-iron-curtain-western-music-and-the-soviet-collapse/ and piles of similar wank. they misrepresent and misunderstand everything involved, of course,	[01:18]
mircea_popescu:	but not the broad strokes. much like chukcha confronted with car understands ~some~ things about it, but picture chukcha's blog describing cars.	[01:18]
mircea_popescu:	long story short, soviet kids integrated into youth culture faster than soviet state integrated "soviet world" the result was the failure of the soviet state.	[01:18]
lobbes:	Mocky: btw you may enjoy alf's ro to eng dictionary >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ro_eng_ascii.txt	[01:21]
Mocky:	thx lobbes	[01:23]
Mocky:	a fi copil din flori`to be born on the wrong side of the blanket	[01:32]
Mocky:	seems quite thorough	[01:33]
mircea_popescu:	lol. actually, that's simply a bastard.	[01:46]
mircea_popescu:	ro custom actually was, for a long time, to give flower names to kids of unknown parentage.	[01:46]
mircea_popescu:	and there is such a thing as a "bride's shame" plant too. so yes, the proposed conceit was that girls impregnated out of wedlock had taken as stroll through a flowery meadow and well... it caught.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu:	in other lulz, all these fucktards derping about "regulators". it is strictly impossible to have anything intelligent or meaningful to say if it includes the word "regulator" EXACTLY in the way it was impossible to say anything intelligent if your verbiage included "phlogiston" a century ago, or geocentrism six centuries ago and so following.	[02:18]
mircea_popescu:	it's so fucking broken a conceit as to be strictly incompatible with thought.	[02:18]
ave1:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-21#1816420, Thanks! I could only find stupid online services (of which dict.cc allows you to download the dictionary, but I wonder about the correctness of this site).	[04:23]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-21 23:11 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-21#1816404 << believe or not, i dun actually have a en<->de .txt . ( the arch-bestseller , v. k. mueller's en<->ru , is errywhere, e.g. http://www.alleng.ru/d/engl/engl150.htm )	[04:23]
mircea_popescu:	meanwhile in other web technologies & platforms involuntary humour, https://archive.is/akno9	[06:29]
shinohai:	would welcome trinque 's thoughts on this make.conf for playing eulora/steam http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/HikUV/?raw=true	[07:21]
shinohai:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815611 <<< warez available: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/library/ForrestMims3rdEdition.pdf	[07:22]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-19 18:54 asciilifeform: Mocky: if it is, start with one forrest mims	[07:22]
mircea_popescu:	aand in other racism lulz, https://archive.is/cGjtW#selection-1363.392-1363.407	[07:27]
mircea_popescu:	bwahahaha this is hysterical.	[07:44]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, https://archive.is/E5mUP#selection-1049.101-1042.8 << check out this dumb shit. STONED lives! in 2018!	[07:44]
mircea_popescu:	the fucktards apparently can't reconstruct a mbr and who needs jfs anyway.	[07:44]
spyked:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816441 <-- this is golden! /me stumbles upon http://manualul.info/Alg_X_1989/ , looks at ToC: "elemente de prelucrare automată a datelor --> câteva instrucțiuni ale limbajului BASIC". and to think, this was wahahay before the days of "everyone and their dog has computer in their pocket" and "teach all kidz computer science"!	[08:31]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 02:58 asciilifeform: meanwhile, for incorrigible rotakus strictly, http://manualul.info ( found, naturally, while digging for the orig kindergarten src of http://trilema.com/2018/printul )	[08:31]
spyked:	but sure, not at all a coincidence, since I got my first http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774876 in 1992.	[08:33]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-23 18:20 spyked: asciilifeform: http://thetarpit.org/uploads/2015/02/hc-85.jpg (though mine was a HC 90 I think). Romanian ZX Spectrum clone, similar to many others discussed here	[08:33]
spyked:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816456 <-- hey, neat archeologgy! may I persuade you to reflow the preformatted content somehow (replace pre with blockquote or something else)? it's a pita to read long log lines on 80 column setups.	[08:47]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 03:35 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815582 << >> http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/	[08:47]
Mocky:	shinohai, thanks re: mims warez. I found similar, already a 3rd of the way thru. a book hand printed in mechanical pencil... remarkable	[09:39]
shinohai:	still haz analog edition in lab	[09:41]
trinque:	shinohai: looks sensible to me. eulora will probably be way easier than steam, obviously, since you can't compile steam yourself. iirc, last time I put steam on linux, it was in an african linux chroot	[09:47]
trinque:	this before I gave up and put a nintendo^wwindows machine on my toiletnet	[09:48]
trinque:	these days I rarely find time for gaming anyway.	[09:49]
shinohai:	meh i just unpack the .deb package and cheat, never given me issues	[09:49]
trinque:	well that, and it requires installing a bunch of required libs neh?	[09:51]
shinohai:	nah I just unpack stean-latest .deb using `ar x` ... then cd to the resulting usr/bin/ and ./steam	[09:55]
shinohai:	*steam-latest	[09:55]
BingoBoingo:	http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-21-may-2018#2441002 << Sounds like a sweet deal	[10:01]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-21 22:47 ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform: a sales incentive scheme proposal: we kick back 5% of revenue to affiliates who've recruited up to 10 paying customers, 10% up to 25 paying customers, 15% to 50 customers and then 20% for recruiting over 50 customers, which'd be a tidy .03 btc/mo, way better than any other "while you sleep" scheme out there.	[10:01]
mod6:	mornin'	[10:12]
trinque:	first thing a salesman is going to ask for is marketing material. website with list of offered services would be a good start.	[10:14]
trinque:	i.e. if I ran some ads somewhere, where's the ad's link end up?	[10:15]
Mocky:	spyked, re: reflow, should be better now	[10:25]
spyked:	ty! :) looks good	[10:31]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2018/05/new-cpu-speculative-execution-flaws-just-keep-rolling-in/ << Qntra - New CPU Speculative Execution Flaws Just Keep Rolling In	[10:38]
asciilifeform:	!~ticker --market all	[11:19]
jhvh1:	asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 8245.99, vol: 7541.78166533 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 8233.0, vol: 17008.085135149995 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 8240.4, vol: 3144.61833089 \| Volume-weighted last average: 8237.37769176	[11:19]
asciilifeform:	!!invoice ben_vulpes 0.36662881 May 2018 refueling: 36 w.u. fee from BB refuel ( omitted from prev inv ) + 2934.06 latech co. + 50 wr.fee	[11:22]
deedbot:	Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtuWU/?raw=true	[11:22]
asciilifeform:	!!v 66C6C76D25BEC54A0C80D05B2508749C37957ADEA4580512CD1A0F2B29B704D0	[11:23]
mod6:	Thanks asciilifeform!	[11:23]
deedbot:	Invoiced ben_vulpes 0.36662881 << May 2018 refueling: 36 w.u. fee from BB refuel ( omitted from prev inv ) + 2934.06 latech co. + 50 wr.fee	[11:23]
asciilifeform:	mod6: np	[11:23]
asciilifeform:	next one will have to be somebody else tho	[11:24]
asciilifeform:	( this is not the 1st warning, either )	[11:24]
mod6:	Yup, noted.	[11:24]
asciilifeform:	mod6: not because i don't like to, lol, i'd happily eat 100% of these 4evah if i had with what.	[11:26]
mod6:	Totally understood.	[11:27]
lobbes:	trinque's got a point re: marketing materials. Also, can I get a copy of the service agreement pizarro has with dc (en español is fine)? The primary selling point for the shared hosting is going to be "host whatever you want", but it obviously cannot be "anything" so salesperson needs to know the edges	[12:04]
asciilifeform:	lobbes: he posted it a while back	[12:06]
BingoBoingo:	lobbes: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/02/06/contract/	[12:06]
lobbes:	Ah, muchas gracias	[12:10]
BingoBoingo:	De nada	[12:10]
trinque:	"(b) la infracción a los derechos de propiedad intelectual e industrial" << so no seedboxen eh?	[12:11]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2018/05/brits-hassel-business-man-over-foreign-cash-deemed-not-conducive-to-public-good/ << Qntra - Brits Hassel Business Man Over "foreign cash deemed not conducive to public good"	[12:12]
asciilifeform:	trinque: afaik every known fiatola isp, incl. in ru and cn, (formally) forbid warez . whether this adds up to an actual problem , is another matter.	[12:17]
trinque:	really depends on whether it's a "throw switch first and ask questions later" or "if somebody whines, you have $duration to tell user to stop"	[12:18]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: fat qntra upcoming, dun go to bed	[12:38]
mod6:	nice	[12:51]
ben_vulpes:	aight great, i'm going to get to work on marketing matls/landing page today	[13:00]
mod6:	cool!	[13:00]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: ty for the heads up, got an eta	[13:09]
asciilifeform:	5min	[13:13]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZWx71/?raw=true <<<	[13:13]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: i forgot to make a title. use your imagination.	[13:15]
asciilifeform:	hm BingoBoingo did qntra swallow my comment silently ?	[13:21]
asciilifeform:	( under "Brits..." )	[13:21]
asciilifeform:	or is it queued somewhere	[13:21]
ben_vulpes:	hassel -> hassle	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	this also	[13:22]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: ty	[13:25]
BingoBoingo:	and ty, comment was swallowed	[13:25]
asciilifeform:	so wat do ?	[13:25]
asciilifeform:	or hm wait	[13:26]
asciilifeform:	aa posted. ok ty	[13:26]
deedbot:	http://qntra.net/2018/05/us-kangaroo-court-issues-conviction-for-kidnapped-antivirus-operator/ << Qntra - US Kangaroo Court Issues Conviction For Kidnapped Antivirus Operator	[13:36]
BingoBoingo:	brb, gotta give a girl some fun	[13:37]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: plox to fix stray html tags	[13:38]
asciilifeform:	in footnote 2	[13:38]
asciilifeform:	!!up wgromniak	[13:50]
deedbot:	wgromniak voiced for 30 minutes.	[13:50]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: ty fxd	[13:54]
mircea_popescu:	re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1813874 in light of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1814511 i had my own intel examine it. it turns out that a) fraud is indeed rampant there, and especially for larger ammounts (this is web world, so larger is > 49.95 or so) and b) aged accounts with large trade histories are regularily bought/sold on fraudster forums.	[15:53]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-16 00:10 mircea_popescu: re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-15#1813559 : one important palliative measure would be for ben_vulpes to create a strong presence on localbitcoins, if nowhere else. there's people there willing to do wires for you, and you never know when it comes handy in a pinch.	[15:53]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-16 17:52 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-16#1813874 << i was somewhat successful on localbitcoins, until (presumably, noone said me details) they started to wire me stolen money.	[15:53]
ben_vulpes:	thanks, mircea_popescu	[15:53]
mircea_popescu:	the point of concern is that if indeed you are paid with stolen funds, your recourse is very limited (hurr durr, "negrate" guy on web-fake-wot, so what, you invested btc in improving some unalligend bs website ?) and without your own bank account, your ability to evaluate the cost of risk is also very limited (dood hijacks some losers windows-broswer-session, sends you 5k, the bank of the loser sends it, then a week later ask	[15:55]
mircea_popescu:	s for it back. if you sent it straight to your dc's account, well, they may either get their bank account closed down, or spend however long doing paperwork, neither of which is something they're ready for, so they'll conceivably panic.)	[15:55]
mircea_popescu:	the correct approach, of course, is to not merely have an account with a bank outside of nato reich, but to have sufficient legal presence there that you get to the actual bottom of things with the bank (ie, not "retail shop clerk told me some random nonsense he assumed to be the case"), and then only clear transfers once the wire has in fact cleared (a signal most banks don't expose to most customers, because everyone involv	[15:57]
mircea_popescu:	ed is 10-ways retarded).	[15:57]
asciilifeform:	iirc bank won't ever say 'it cleared, 100% guarantee of no-clawback' because 'helps to launder' and leads to burning at the usg stake	[15:58]
mircea_popescu:	there's all sorts of rot and bullshit meanwhile baked into the system, such as, "sepa" (ie, i-can't-believe-it's-not-a-wire eurozone-only ersatz) has a two week recallable period. other banks may have other arrangements. the standard is that the other bank will ask for the money to be sent back "voluntarily" the bank may do it and pretend you agreed -- and feel free to take them to court, if your lawyers never met their law	[15:59]
mircea_popescu:	yers they're not going to fear that or else may ask you whether you agree. but if you don't agree, the other bank will send ANOTHER request, to refund and also ban your account. which your bank again, may do even IF they met your lawyers.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu:	and so following.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, of course they do. just, not for random dick.	[15:59]
asciilifeform:	well for soros they'll not only not clawback but send complimentary whores and chocolate, sure.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu:	industrial process can't have this "maybe the money's there, maybe there isn't". so people who actually keep the shit moving ain't got time for the bs. meanwhile non-essential services get shafted all the time, nobody cares you sent 10k copies of your extra speshial ladies fashion mag.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, not a matter of soros. a matter of two truckloads of screws vs two piles of "information products".	[16:00]
mircea_popescu:	the trucks dun move until the money is in, definitely. and so that's the point here, peeling more and ever more layers off. when we send bitcoin, we're sending something > trucks of lcd panels, not something < vogue magazine.	[16:01]
mircea_popescu:	but the empire assumes the assumptions that favour its nonsense, and they'll have to be drilled through.	[16:01]
mircea_popescu:	now all this withstanding, asciilifeform has a point in the following sense : if you constantly end up with stolen funds, something will ahve to be done about it -- and by you, as a sane fucking person. money transfers don't exist so idle fucktards can sit around on wealth they didn't work for, "oh, i wonder if i should do my homework or read up on carding forums".	[16:04]
mircea_popescu:	ie, even if the bank welcomed it (which it doesn't because they're trying to do business not participate in la revolucion), you couldn't in good conscience condone a process that constantly results in you processing stolen money. cuz you're not in that fucking business, and if you'd rather be then go work for the ny families or something.	[16:05]
asciilifeform:	'carding' ~as a concept~ is 100% usg-engineered 'anarchotyranny' -- http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-13#499334	[16:05]
a111:	Logged on 2014-02-13 01:00 asciilifeform: fact is, 'carding' could disappear overnight if the card issuers wished it. (even in countries with ubiquitous old-style magnetic readers. devices which present the correct magnetism, using one-time account #s, are trivial.)	[16:05]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, i do not necessarily disagree with your theory. but let me walk you through a practical anecdote, so we understand the world better together, shall we ?	[16:06]
asciilifeform:	it exists to supply one of the pretexts for usg nationalization of banking infrastructure.	[16:06]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: fire away	[16:06]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, http://uploads.gazetadecluj.ro/gazcluj/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/ion-clamparu.jpg << look at this ugly fuck. knowing he is known as "cap de porc" ie "pighead", tell me what he does for a living ?	[16:07]
asciilifeform:	( asciilifeform's orig. argument, summarized : if bank cards used actual nonleaking rsa, and signed individual transactions under direct physical control of user -- there would be no 'carding'. qed. )	[16:07]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: executes contracts with blunt weapons ?	[16:07]
mod6:	'journalist'	[16:08]
asciilifeform:	lol!!	[16:08]
mircea_popescu:	here it is : he was convicted of a murder (the inept rural sort, ie, exactly what you say) many years ago. he got a term which turned to about 7 years.	[16:08]
mircea_popescu:	he spent those 7 years building up a network inside the prison. he then got out, moved to spain, and started what's called "human trafficking". ie, he'd trick idiot girlies into coming over, chained them to a post and soldf fuck tickets.	[16:09]
mircea_popescu:	he was convicted in spain, returned to romania, where also convicted, though it's not exactly clear if of same deeds (except at the getting girls, rather than selling fuck tickets end of it) or other deeds. he applied to court ot have punishments processed together,	[16:09]
mircea_popescu:	which is how he ended up with my people, i left sleepers to look for legal lulz for my own personal amusement. and it turned out that he ALSO had a large term in italy that neither the spanish nor the romanians even knew about.	[16:10]
mircea_popescu:	because eurozone amirite, what are they for.	[16:10]
mircea_popescu:	now, tell me this : how was he convicted ?	[16:10]
asciilifeform:	that q melts my brain. how could he ~not~ be, once captured by reich's agents, convicted, sentenced, whole hog	[16:11]
mircea_popescu:	this guy did not permit the girls to talk to one another. do you understand, to any degree, the sort of psychosis wilful people develop in prison ? he ran that operation as tight as fuck, not like he advertised for help on tardstalk.	[16:12]
mircea_popescu:	how did it leak ?	[16:12]
asciilifeform:	... 2 escaped gurlz met ?	[16:12]
mircea_popescu:	nope.	[16:12]
mircea_popescu:	n, not two, N! i don't even know HOW HIGH ABOVE A DOZEN!!! girls were... i'm not sure anyone is ready for this... they were rescued by customers.	[16:13]
asciilifeform:	... they picked him up for wrong colour of staples in passport, searched house, found gurl ?	[16:13]
asciilifeform:	lol!!	[16:13]
mircea_popescu:	let me put this in words, if words will allow it.	[16:13]
mircea_popescu:	some dumbass spanish redditard, yes, becuause who buys fucktickets from inept pigheads, some dumbass 45yo stackexchanger, expert sexchanger, some fucktard "computer engineer" DARED, not merely to steal the woman of a convicted murderer running a prostitution ring, but then not even go into hiding in fuckbumstan. no, he went with her ~to the fucking police~.	[16:14]
mircea_popescu:	and this idiot beyond what epithets can mark, this idiot kept losing girls. and he somehow explained this to himself as normal. if my engine loses oil i fucking have it checked by experts, this moron kept losing girls and thinking nothing of it.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu:	if i was doing this and someone did that, i'd fucking gut them, saw their children where their guts used to be and dumped them in assemblage in the sewage plant. but the ~most dangerous romanian criminal~, established the press, dun feel the need to bother.	[16:16]
asciilifeform:	i was waiting for the curtain call part of the story, with 'and what he did to the stoolie'	[16:17]
asciilifeform:	turns out, nuffin?!	[16:17]
asciilifeform:	lol!!	[16:17]
mircea_popescu:	so this is the tripartite system -- the mirvniki, iiincredibly fuycking insane. they dare all sorts of inconceivable out-of-line behaviour, because they really think they're protected by the lcd screen. got used to do this, eventually their brain rots, tyhey think they're safe. except of course if the reich comes asking for them to sign "confession". THEN they're affraid of that, yes. they push over like butter, as if the f	[16:17]
mircea_popescu:	ucking bureaucrats can ever do anything.	[16:17]
mircea_popescu:	meanwhile, the vory, they're so fucking indolent as described.	[16:18]
asciilifeform:	i mean, we do have these in usa, can call'em 'budget model' criminals, they have money for the toy pistol with which to hold up bank, but not for the getaway car for the 'carding' dataset but not for the ticket to iran etc	[16:18]
mircea_popescu:	and the devils, well, they don't fucking know which side their head faces. i mean, nevermind the "oh, we're the legal system of cluelessness". dja realise i personally humiliated the european union delegation at bucharest (calling tiself "romanian government" for 0 rerasons) because ~they did not know how many heads of pigs lived on the land at given date~ ?	[16:19]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, if this guy meets your definition of "budget model" then i am at a loss for words. how would the putative mob set the hiring standards higher ?	[16:19]
asciilifeform:	why should they count pigs? i suppose the thought was, let washington/nato count'em, they bought'em	[16:19]
mircea_popescu:	they give them fucking id cards, are you kidding me ?	[16:19]
mircea_popescu:	don't you expect the lowest most basic requirement of any issuance to be able to produce count(issued) ?	[16:20]
asciilifeform:	there is also the variant where they knew the # , but not yet settled in agreement on precisely how to cook the books	[16:20]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, this is the tripartite system : fearless peons (except will sign any confession if asked by hitler) - indolent thieves - clueless bureaucrats.	[16:20]
mircea_popescu:	your theory, only covers one portion of the problem.	[16:20]
* asciilifeform	doesn't pretend to have a tight grip on the problem, relying as he does on 'astronomical' observations through a thick fog of crapola	[16:21]
mircea_popescu:	do you realise ~every single fucktarded sub 25 yo girly on fetlife~ thinks "her relationship is great" and "my guy gives me everything i want, which you couldn't" ?	[16:21]
mircea_popescu:	when THE FUCK was this not the case, but even contemplatable as the case ?!	[16:21]
asciilifeform:	i suspect that the reality of the matter , in re the above , is beyond the squirrel brains of the gurlz, they are not equipped to process it and reject as ufology	[16:22]
mircea_popescu:	socialism has created a broken world. which takes us right back to the rock'n'roll / soviet state thing from yest : the 1988 problem ~wasn't~ aesthetic. it was that the "responses" provided by "the system" were strictly speaking http://trilema.com/2018/printul/#selection-39.91-39.107	[16:23]
asciilifeform:	( per http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-04#1119480 effect )	[16:23]
a111:	Logged on 2015-05-04 13:42 mircea_popescu: and the monkey is going "fuck you bitch" quite literally at the experimenter, whom it (wrongly) perceives as a monkey of the same age and sex.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu:	yes, but think! think! rodrigo bonzalez the javascript expert of a shitty apt with not even a working lock in madrid perceived pighead the hard timer as... ALSO!!!! a javascript expert.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu:	their apparently shared expecation is that they can sit in a bar at a table together and drink the same beer.	[16:24]
mircea_popescu:	and not even for money! FOR A WOMAN!!!!	[16:24]
mircea_popescu:	is there anything worth less in the reich than a fucking woman ?!	[16:24]
asciilifeform:	asciilifeform suspects that, according to even 'well-read' plankton , mircea_popescu obviously cannot exist , as the last mircea_popescu was ghaddafi and the latter got bayonet up his starfish, erryoneknows	[16:24]
mircea_popescu:	even a child's worth a little money.	[16:24]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, except they DO KNOW he exists. recently present retard dared say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-18#1815400 as a proxy for "fuck maduro", rather than being there, naked on hands and knees, begging to be allowed into the system. as per http://trilema.com/2016/mochila-o-muerte/#selection-57.0-56.1 and http://trilema.com/2017/in-scams-today-disk-less-terminal-sa-dba-laesquinadelamazmorra/#selection-167.0-175.137 an	[16:26]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-18 21:17 fettiffany: because socialism is crap, that's what has destroyed my country	[16:26]
mircea_popescu:	d general fucking basic logic.	[16:26]
mircea_popescu:	if what maduro is running there is socialism i'm a woman.	[16:26]
asciilifeform:	this case is quite typical tho, the reich prosecutes 'death ray plots' while allah happily snackbars ~biweekly in londonabad/al-paris/etc , not much new there	[16:27]
mircea_popescu:	nevertheless, to return to your theory : if government somehow decided to hire you to make them a proper card and implemented your design, the other end of the retard empire, "the people themselves" (aka, http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/#selection-97.245-97.262 ) would not use it because (and this is a direct quote) "it's too much pressure".	[16:29]
mircea_popescu:	by which they mean fo course, "this doesn't take us closer to http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ but further away from it, so we'll drag our feet as much as possibru).	[16:29]
mircea_popescu:	all three parties are captive in the system! the devils can't fix, because the mirvniki won't let them and the vory permit them to not fix the mirvniki won't fix because the vory won't let them and the devils permit them to not fix. and the vory won't fix because... the devils won't let them and the mirvniki permit them to not fix.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu:	see ? it's perfectly stable!	[16:30]
mircea_popescu:	and ~this~, this and only this, is why i said and i've been saying that only burning the whole thing down is a feasible approach. because of this.	[16:31]
mircea_popescu:	hey Mocky , how do you like the power of logs and blogs leveraged to make incredibly fine points incredibly well ? this'd be why http://trilema.com/2010/cartile-au-murit/	[16:32]
asciilifeform:	the 'they hire somebody to make proper rsa card', it's a 'fried ice' hypothetical, tho. because the cc 'fraud' is a required element of maintaining the konsoomer 'purchasing' circulation the system needs in order to live.	[16:32]
asciilifeform:	and yes it's stable.	[16:32]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, it being exactly what i said!	[16:32]
asciilifeform:	but yes, this makes sense	[16:34]
mircea_popescu:	anyway. what ambitious girly with http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-133.251-133.334 delusions as to "how the world works" meant by "socialism has ruined my country" was, "This nazi Maduro dared make venezuela uninhabitable for stupid cunts like me!!!! CALL MOMMY!!!". nothing else.	[16:35]
asciilifeform:	this was implicit in the 'anarchotyranny' label, which i stole from somebody or other (moldbug?) where it was described how a predator-prey equilibrium is carefully maintained by usg	[16:35]
mircea_popescu:	exactly a restatement of http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/#selection-151.0-187.20	[16:35]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, except the modbug inept restatement of the foregoing attempts to enact his sponsor as some kind of aloof superior. whereas in reality it very much isn't, all parties are exactly equal, in their idiocy.	[16:36]
mircea_popescu:	the http://trilema.com/2012/law-enforcement-never-fails-to-unintentionally-entertain/#selection-119.0-119.99 is as much a part of the shitworld they built for themselves as is "herp derp your words can never touch me"	[16:37]
asciilifeform:	this applies to all 3 points in the triangle. i do not know whether the cc thieves and dope peddlers understand that without usg's maintenance of the upside-down world, they would work just as hard and for just as little, as used tyre sellers and train station pickpockets. ( i suspect that the smarter ones -- do but nfi )	[16:39]
mircea_popescu:	yup.	[16:40]
mircea_popescu:	because tghat's the other angle of it : the "enchanted world of carding" is carefully engineered so it works as about 92% of the return-per-work that "legit" drudgery works out to .	[16:40]
mircea_popescu:	except the people involved aren't good at math, in the sense of compartimentalizing things in their heads.	[16:40]
mircea_popescu:	no "for the same money" ever issued out of their cubicalized brain.	[16:41]
asciilifeform:	as for the zooplankton, i have yet to meet one who appears to grasp the implications of no-carding world ( 'and when my money's gone, it's gone, and i can't borrow moar, time to sell daughters ?! holyfuq' ) but watch their faces when shown bitcoin, where this is the order of things	[16:41]
asciilifeform:	!#s while you sleep	[16:42]
a111:	50 results for "while you sleep", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=while%20you%20sleep	[16:42]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: it's complicated, for them all of the examples i've witnessed up close, were simply running from cube hell, and absolutely did not give half a shit at what, exact , cost and i can't really blameem	[16:42]
asciilifeform:	so no, there is not a 'same money', it absolutely is not 'same money' if it has to be earned in a cube and wearing an id badge '9 to 5'	[16:43]
mircea_popescu:	heh.	[16:43]
mircea_popescu:	the illusion of improvement is after all the most important mechanism in empire.	[16:44]
asciilifeform:	they aren't (all) terrible at maths. simply there is a hidden term in this equation.	[16:44]
mircea_popescu:	"change you can believe in", let alone whether anything changes or not.	[16:44]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, which ?	[16:44]
asciilifeform:	the 'i'd rather make 50k as a free man in sunlight, even if running from police, than 500k under fluorescent lights writing usg reports'	[16:45]
mircea_popescu:	except... not made as free man either.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu:	just, "you can either get three food pellets a day and here's the cage bars, or else two and a half food pellets and we use the special invisible bars for your cage. same cost to us, what's your preference ?"	[16:45]
asciilifeform:	well yes, they play the role of lions and rhinos in a kind of safari park for usg 'threeletters'	[16:45]
asciilifeform:	( see in particular today's qntra, incidentally )	[16:46]
mircea_popescu:	and the cost ~to the system~ (because no, NOBODY who speaks english as a primary language PRODUCES anything, nor has, nor will while this lasts) of either kind is very finely equal	[16:46]
mircea_popescu:	which is why their per-sweadrop returns vary and are so precisely alligned.	[16:46]
mircea_popescu:	see ?	[16:46]
asciilifeform:	i must agree, because if the system is disequilibriated somewhere, it is to small enuff amount that i cannot see , with naked eye, where.	[16:47]
asciilifeform:	so it follows that it must be balanced.	[16:47]
asciilifeform:	( at least approx )	[16:47]
asciilifeform:	this also calls to mind the several previous threads re 'why do carders/smugglers/etc still use paypalade and convert bitcoin to usd whenever they get any' etc.	[16:48]
mircea_popescu:	moreover it's remarkable how well the averages are attracted. for anyone with functional analysis practice the underlying equality is evident.	[16:48]
asciilifeform:	to a man, they never 'checked out mentally' from usg reich, they still dream, in the end somehow, of miami.	[16:48]
asciilifeform:	( observe, abramovich remains in his miami, london, despite (supposedly) upcoming dekulakization. because life 'unthinkable' otherwise. )	[16:50]
* mircea_popescu	recently re-watched http://trilema.com/2011/drugstore-cowboy/ it is notable because pretty much the last extant footage of w s burroughs.	[16:52]
mircea_popescu:	transparently, the reason the old man even did the film, and what they tgold him to be in it etc, is because he wanted to put the following phrase out there where i could reach it : "that in a few years, the right wingers will use the narcotics pretext to create an international police state".	[16:52]
asciilifeform:	there was ample warning, starting from the orig american prohibitionists.	[16:53]
mircea_popescu:	now, he didn't figure out that his notion of "right wingers" exactly maps to "clinton democrats", but otherwise, the problems of integration still drive the democratic world.	[16:53]
mircea_popescu:	("but mp, you don't do drugs what's more, you despise the junkie lifestyle -- shouldn't you despise burroughs ?!" "riight, because i'm you and http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/#selection-373.681-373.811 applies to me, narf.")	[16:56]
asciilifeform:	now that we reviewed the usg-plankton-thieves triangle , possibly mircea_popescu grasps why asciilifeform disagrees with the moral angle of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816611 : yes , it is problem to accept 'dirty' fiatola, but not from ethical angle, but because we don't have the tank divisions and orbital thermonuke droppers to properly counter a fully-rousted enemy anthill, yet	[16:57]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 20:05 mircea_popescu: ie, even if the bank welcomed it (which it doesn't because they're trying to do business not participate in la revolucion), you couldn't in good conscience condone a process that constantly results in you processing stolen money. cuz you're not in that fucking business, and if you'd rather be then go work for the ny families or something.	[16:57]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, do you understand how the "bitcoin corrupts" portion of republican ideology works ?	[16:59]
asciilifeform:	i think so	[16:59]
mircea_popescu:	well, do you then see how this is the only available blade of "fiat corrupts" for the empire ? dull and small as it is, it's their mangy goat, one and only.	[16:59]
asciilifeform:	( i.e. at certain point, all of the working brains in the enemy camp, 'sell out to bitcoin', and what remains is buncha weirdos shouting orders impotently like the old man ceausescu )	[17:00]
mircea_popescu:	no. not the certain point. every day, every agent opf the empire is confronted with the http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/#selection-967.295-971.2 problem. it is why they send people to steal the bitcoin from that "silkworm" tard, then sent more people to steal it from the people they sent to steal if and ended up stealing it ~for thems	[17:01]
mircea_popescu:	elves~.	[17:01]
mircea_popescu:	this is how the republic corrupts, in that once it's on the table, every man is now compelled to make a choice, and the other choice is incompatible with intelligence.	[17:02]
asciilifeform:	the mega-problem is, that it remains to be seen... whether bitcoin actually works. ( consider, in principle, errybody, from the dc folx, to the cheese sellers at the sunday market, ought to be cutting one another's throats for a chance to get some of that sweet coin sent their way. BUT in actuality, they do not! why not ? )	[17:02]
mircea_popescu:	sure. yet, for illustration : suppose camelfucker (as esltard imagines it) were sent to bomb vhs-america (as orc imagines it). the result ? after weeks of silence, "hey man, why do you want to harm these ppl, they're cool. i put in my greencard application and found a local gf, don't call her a whore she just likes to give head in bathrooms, it's all good"	[17:03]
mircea_popescu:	this ~actually happened~, which is why all sorts of ideological products centered on flower-power (mostly made by kids who were 12ish during woodstock and not admitted, so they got bitter and dreamed up their woodstock in heavens) contain more or less exact, direct depictions.	[17:04]
asciilifeform:	whereas in reality, osama et al can attend oxbridge, fuck 9000 choice aboriginals, and come back to goatfuckistan to make peroxide of acetone in cave	[17:05]
asciilifeform:	nao granted this is in post-2001 usa, vs 'vhs'	[17:05]
asciilifeform:	'vhs america' did have e.g. su 'residents' who went native.	[17:06]
mircea_popescu:	classical london, the model the us briefly seemed to manage immitating, was the place where all sorts of orcs (such as you know, lenin) went into "exile", because unlike their originating goatfuckistan, london did not give a shit about "politics" and "ideologies". because it had a better one.	[17:06]
mircea_popescu:	period and full stop.	[17:06]
asciilifeform:	lenin? zurich	[17:06]
asciilifeform:	but otherwise yes	[17:06]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[17:09]
asciilifeform:	in re 'silk road' food chain, the coin can in fact be stolen from usg agents, in turn by usg.thieves, in turn by usg agents again, in turn by miami-dreaming latvians, and again by usg, and so forth, infinitely many times. none of these get visibly 'corrupted' , they continue to dream of miami afaik.	[17:09]
asciilifeform:	granted in theory ~eventually~ it will settle into some ground state, perhaps in mircea_popescu's pocket , but this doesn't fix the problem of fiatola interface, necessarily.	[17:10]
mircea_popescu:	this is not so, the first thieves usg sent actually went bitcoin native.	[17:10]
asciilifeform:	apparently not, if they aren't openly in the wot and standing up to lordship ?	[17:10]
mircea_popescu:	and i imagine they're in the deepest hole the reich has, not because of "guilt" but because they're radioactive, can train others.	[17:10]
asciilifeform:	( or what means 'native' ?? )	[17:11]
asciilifeform:	aaaa captured d00dz	[17:11]
mircea_popescu:	well yes.	[17:11]
asciilifeform:	from this it'd follow that the coin is now in some idcard-carrying vermin's safe, and guarded by http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-10#1158785 , and potentially stable situation ~forever, like with nuke warehouse.	[17:12]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-10 03:40 asciilifeform: 'watchman may not know what is behind the door he is guarding if he knew - would steal it himself' (tm) (r) (sov army)	[17:12]
mircea_popescu:	quite.	[17:13]
mircea_popescu:	except, of course, of how fearless the zeks are.	[17:13]
asciilifeform:	so , granted bitcoin corrupts, like mercury reacts with aluminum, but observe that despite mercury being plentiful on planet3, aluminum airplanes still fly	[17:13]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: how do the fearless zeks play in ?	[17:14]
mircea_popescu:	see, this is to my eyes the principal vulnerability of the whole charade. always it is the case with tripartite stable systems you get a sewing together somewhewre, and so is here. the zeks must, at the same time, be brave enough to steal from pighead and ALSO cowardly enough they'll eagerly participate in samokritika sessions.	[17:14]
mircea_popescu:	this partition is where the light comes in.	[17:14]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, they'll just go in and fucking steal it.	[17:14]
asciilifeform:	they can steal it any number of times, but they have no ideological drive to ~keep~ it, so it ends up in the usg safe next to the aes weak key formula and the nuke src. all over again.	[17:15]
asciilifeform:	where there ~is~ the ideological drive.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu:	ever seen http://trilema.com/2011/bad-teacher/ ? bitch wants new tits and dun wanna suck cock for it, because "that's bad and no http://trilema.com/2013/queers/#selection-135.66-135.84 dame would ever do it". so INSTEAD she breaks into fed vault, steals standardized test a day before it's administered.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu:	and, this is the kicker, ~gets away with it~.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu:	ever seen http://trilema.com/2011/bound/ ? two lezbos steal from the mob. and ~they get away with it~.	[17:16]
asciilifeform:	does she get away with it by flying away in ufo, blasting death ray ?	[17:17]
asciilifeform:	in film -- anyffing can happen	[17:17]
mircea_popescu:	this is ~all they see, and therefore they believe it. hey, if you're as cute as a button and don't bow to patriarchy, you can just walk with a hunk of gold from fort knox.	[17:17]
asciilifeform:	i saw a film exactly like this once utter rubbish, where some 'historian' d00d steals 'declaration of independence' from museum	[17:17]
mircea_popescu:	bravery, see ? he who dares take gang hookers on a whim, can in principle dare to go steal the nuke keys.	[17:17]
asciilifeform:	had nice touch where he gets into it through seekrit passage in the adjacent train station ( i go to that train station quite often, and it was an extra lulzgem )	[17:18]
mircea_popescu:	and this is the problem. system relies on them being both insanely brave, past any degree of human bravery, and ALSO insanely poltroonish, below what one sees even in 6yos.	[17:18]
asciilifeform:	system would prefer that the ballsy folx march into machinegun fire asap, yes.	[17:18]
asciilifeform:	rather than plot for 20 yrs to club a guard and steal rifle and etc.	[17:18]
mircea_popescu:	nah. just the ~integrated~ ones. see ? the moment they integrate their courage, they a) lose some portions of it and b) become indeed very dangerous.	[17:19]
asciilifeform:	the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-13#623026 thing , it is precisely for this.	[17:19]
a111:	Logged on 2014-04-13 22:23 mircea_popescu: "In 2013, two men from upstate New York were arrested after building a radioactive "death ray" device and plotting to use it against Muslims"	[17:19]
mircea_popescu:	that's how democratic state stays stable : a) integrating the world but also b) desintegrating the zek mind.	[17:19]
asciilifeform:	i still recall one of the provocateurs who showed up here, who was genuinely puzzled why asciilifeform did not take interest in his 'private' invitations to join 'militia'	[17:20]
mircea_popescu:	lol	[17:20]
asciilifeform:	and that's just the 1 that comes to mind.	[17:21]
asciilifeform:	their 3ring notebook has just a handful of formulae, and they apply, religiously, each one, forever.	[17:21]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: do you recall which one this was?	[17:21]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: something plague, or gangrene-themed nick, i fughet	[17:22]
asciilifeform:	iirc autumn of 2015	[17:22]
ben_vulpes:	doesn't ring much of a bell	[17:22]
asciilifeform:	'scourge' or similar	[17:23]
ben_vulpes:	ohoh thescourge	[17:23]
asciilifeform:	aaa yes	[17:23]
mircea_popescu:	heh	[17:26]
mircea_popescu:	i suspect you're profiled as "crotchety old man with no social skills" because "technical expertise must have this fatal flaw" as per the cinematic rolodex of fatal flaws.	[17:27]
asciilifeform:	probably	[17:28]
asciilifeform:	'or why else would he refuse to help build islamic death ray'	[17:28]
asciilifeform:	'errybody MUST want to associate with the back-twothirds snail of the bellcurve! it's written in the biblokoran' or sumthing	[17:29]
deedbot:	http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/ << Trilema - Eulora's Communication Protocol, restated.	[17:29]
mircea_popescu:	sorry about that somehow had a bad ' in title.	[17:29]
asciilifeform:	lol, i was gettin' ready to read a rewritten eulora protocol...	[17:30]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, notice that the "headcount is the only criterion" is baked very deeply in their cvasi-brains. which is why the recent lulz with dns and http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756992	[17:30]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal	[17:30]
asciilifeform:	of course it is.	[17:30]
asciilifeform:	they'll sometimes hunt and skin 'low headcount' items , like the 2 latvian idjits, if they see something valuable to steal	[17:32]
mircea_popescu:	"transform through culture -- as long as the fundamentals don't change". or, in caragiale's words, century+ ago, "Din două una, dați-mi voie: ori să se revizuiască, primesc! dar să nu se schimbe nimica ori să nu se revizuiască, primesc! dar atunci să se schimbe pe ici pe colo, și anume în punctele... esențiale... Din această dilemă nu puteți ieși... Am zis! "	[17:32]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, yes, but only as a "low high headcount".	[17:34]
asciilifeform:	wassat	[17:34]
mircea_popescu:	which ?	[17:34]
asciilifeform:	'low high headcount'	[17:34]
asciilifeform:	sr was , what, 1 d00d	[17:34]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, i suspect we might be the only ones to have ~ever~ produced an item that doesn't specifically benefit from headcount as such.	[17:34]
asciilifeform:	( 2? if we count the stoolie )	[17:34]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, that it's still ~ordered~ from low to high, irrespective of how it happens to have a small cardinal.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu:	the difference between {1,2} and {1,2,3,4,5,6,7...,190999} is not substantial -- yes one's larger than the other, but the first can be enlarged and it'll keep structure.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu:	"all integers up to n" is not much affected by size of n, because the generative rule still is, "up to" "n".	[17:36]
mircea_popescu:	so the first is a "low n high headcount" and the 2nd is a "high n high headcount", but the first byte is insignificant, "low", "high", maybe 17 is a very large amt of phone number, who's to say.	[17:36]
asciilifeform:	they did at least Officially feign surprise that 'it's just 1 d00d', so i can picture it.	[17:37]
asciilifeform:	'narco-cartel'	[17:37]
mircea_popescu:	consider the illustrative case of art. so a man gets an itch, and as a result of this itch in due time comes an item.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu:	the system picks up item, proclaims it is a "painting", and gives man something for it.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu:	at this point, man diverges into two fundamentally disjunct and irreconcilable possiblities.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu:	if man is a dullard, man will engage in "high headcount", female generative process : how to make ANOTHER item JUST LIKE THE FIRST.	[17:40]
mircea_popescu:	if man is intelligent, will engage in "difference and variety", scientific ( http://trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/ ) generative process : how to make another item not at all like the first, except where it utterly has to.	[17:41]
asciilifeform:	all shamanism is based on the 'just like the first!' pattern, aha	[17:41]
asciilifeform:	must note, however, that 'low head count' comes with own set of problems.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu:	nobody's proposing deductive solutions. the only observation is that trying to build one-legged walkers will result in grief.	[17:44]
asciilifeform:	( and always. recall how stalin, whatever else he succeeded in, was unable to create a half-passable replacement for himself. ditto peter. )	[17:44]
asciilifeform:	in re deductive solutions -- it still puzzles me how e.g. bitcoin can be 'worth 8k' but simultaenously no dc anywhere wants any.	[17:46]
trinque:	china shut down the exchanges, not the mines	[17:46]
trinque:	looks like they very much want some, and don't want it leaking	[17:47]
mircea_popescu:	so far that's even the reason empire crossed the threshold into oblivion ( i'm too lazy to dig up ye olde trilema where i say "state may exist for as long as it so closely mimmicks my will i can't discern it's there, and not one second past that" ) and now must be destroyed. had it had the sense (rather, the capacity) to maintain both forms, i'd nwever have even noticed it, and it could have continued to exist therefore.	[17:47]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, it can get way worse than that,	[17:48]
mircea_popescu:	!Qgoogle joshua bell	[17:48]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-18#761314 there we go	[17:49]
a111:	Logged on 2014-07-18 20:19 princessnell: they can't identify a maestro for a mendicant https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UM21gPmkDpI	[17:49]
asciilifeform:	i remember bell very, very well.	[17:50]
asciilifeform:	1st publicly-visible case of d00d pissing on the usg's anti-bitcoin ( yes, before bitcoin ) electric fence.	[17:51]
mircea_popescu:	trinque, no more https://www.huobi.com/ ?	[17:51]
asciilifeform:	or hm that's a different bell !!	[17:52]
asciilifeform:	i was thinking of 'assassination politics' d00d	[17:52]
asciilifeform:	jim bell.	[17:52]
mircea_popescu:	nah.	[17:52]
trinque:	iirc they were all shuttered at the end of last year	[17:54]
asciilifeform:	trinque: they want it , but strictly to safely sequester in bunker, per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816751 .	[17:54]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 21:12 asciilifeform: from this it'd follow that the coin is now in some idcard-carrying vermin's safe, and guarded by http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-10#1158785 , and potentially stable situation ~forever, like with nuke warehouse.	[17:54]
asciilifeform:	from both euro-american and chinese lizard pov, world without bitcoin is best, but second-best is world where it is exactly like plutonium, plebe who somehow finds some has no choice but to bury in the deepest hole he can dig and forget that it happened	[17:55]
asciilifeform:	like gold in old su	[17:56]
mircea_popescu:	i suppose so, huh.	[17:56]
Mocky:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816678 I think it's head and shoulders above whatever else, specifically for those who can write well and who have fine points actually worth making	[17:56]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 20:32 mircea_popescu: hey Mocky , how do you like the power of logs and blogs leveraged to make incredibly fine points incredibly well ? this'd be why http://trilema.com/2010/cartile-au-murit/	[17:56]
mircea_popescu:	in the end, the aquarium feeder and the aquarium fauna have more in common than they'd like to admit necessarily.	[17:57]
asciilifeform:	i dun see any fundamental difference between east and west aquariae	[17:57]
mircea_popescu:	Mocky, sadly, the whatever else is mostly "books". because the only fucking altgernative is writing simple books about simple databases for http://trilema.com/2016/there-has-not-yet-been-seen-a-simple-thing-even-if-were-drowning-in-simple-people/	[17:57]
asciilifeform:	trinque: if pekin actually shuttered the exchanges, this is dumbest possible move, nao chinese coin will be sold in new york for usd and put in usg bank to steal.	[18:01]
asciilifeform:	( granted, hope probably is 'not sold at all, and the Party will eventually take it' )	[18:02]
mircea_popescu:	it's possible they're trying some kind of monetarism, "if dried crickets we put in china aquarium can no longer be traded for bitcoin, on account of how poor us aquarium is kept the price of bitcoin will drop we can buy cheaper". or whatever inane monetarism.	[18:03]
mircea_popescu:	the chinese were never famed for their intelligence.	[18:03]
asciilifeform:	reich can continue to soldier on ~indefinitely for so long as it can afford to maintain a miami for idiot orcs to salivate for. this could prove to be a very long time.	[18:03]
asciilifeform:	it's a stable strategy, like the lantern fish.	[18:04]
mircea_popescu:	athens-miami was here 2500 years ago, and will be here 2500 years from now.	[18:04]
mircea_popescu:	what the normies salivate at has ~no bearing to anything.	[18:04]
asciilifeform:	plankton, no bearing, no folx with 'actual power' (i.e. coin) trading it 'for fetish of power' (usd in nyc) -- bearing.	[18:05]
mircea_popescu:	the problem is that the value of normie "work", ie, what normie can do, was >0 from age of sail to end of industrialization, mid 1800s. whereas since orwell it's not been the case./	[18:05]
mircea_popescu:	so there shall not long exist the sort of things one expects of "Working socialist reich". consider -- it is infinitely easier now to find a girlfriend (in medieval parlance whore) than a houseworker (in medieval parlance, maid). by a factor of at least 100.	[18:06]
asciilifeform:	rrright, hence the item re the madura chix	[18:06]
mircea_popescu:	this is strictly because socialist democracy. otherwise -- it's 100x the other way.	[18:06]
asciilifeform:	servants, in the customary sense, are ~banned in the reich ('they have RIGHTS!')	[18:06]
mircea_popescu:	also, "convenience" as in store etc, is not supportable in kingdom, monarchy only item. which is why you want to buy parts and your 1600 counterpart had them hand-made by expert he maintained relatiosnhip with (ie, house and so on)	[18:07]
mircea_popescu:	but then again, as you discover ~no store holds anything interesting anyway, as seen in recent logs...	[18:07]
asciilifeform:	... or when they do, 1000% markup ( recall the thread about the lids on FUCKGOATS analogue board ? )	[18:08]
mircea_popescu:	so there you go. it's not a matter of "if".	[18:08]
asciilifeform:	store -- holds parts such as are used in 'fishtank' maintenance. want anything else -- stuck building it in spare time, for years.	[18:10]
asciilifeform:	i suppose for people with money, the equation differs, but i am not , never was, and never expect to be such a thing, and cannot comment authoritatively.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu:	point remains -- stores in vhs america hold "anything you could possibly want". that is the exact statement and it is a fundamental requirement. no longe satisfied -- no longer to the camelfuckers go native in your newyorklondonzurich	[18:12]
asciilifeform:	( 'money' begins, roughly, at the freight liner level , as in http://trilema.com/2018/on-namespaces/#selection-237.0-243.73 )	[18:12]
asciilifeform:	camelfuckers seems to aspire to become fat, lazy newyorkers, wanting strictly what the snail of the bellcurve always wants rather than screws with exotic threads.	[18:13]
douchebag:	http://douchebag.press/ <<< Updated, all known CVE's for dependencies have been listed.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu:	this is not my experience.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, now go through your wot, ask the people with -s to please take them off, see what they want from you to do so.	[18:14]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: this looks exactly same as 2days ago	[18:15]
asciilifeform:	just nao with usg.dns	[18:15]
douchebag:	update it	[18:15]
douchebag:	or refresh	[18:15]
asciilifeform:	i did	[18:15]
douchebag:	I just added dependcy exploits for m4, mpc, mpfr, musl, ncurses and pkgconf	[18:15]
asciilifeform:	and i still don't seen any vulns in anything that actually gets linked to AND CALLED FROM trb	[18:16]
asciilifeform:	on this list.	[18:16]
asciilifeform:	( not that i expected to )	[18:16]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, it's not, it grew about 30%	[18:16]
douchebag:	I was only asked to find exploits for the dependencies being used	[18:16]
asciilifeform:	!#s exam taking	[18:17]
a111:	12 results for "exam taking", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=exam%20taking	[18:17]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: understand that this behaviour 1) has a name 2) might work LITERALLY EVERYWHERE ELSE on planet, but won't work here.	[18:18]
asciilifeform:	nao granted this might technically satisfy in re what douchebag promised to trinque ( lessee if the latter -- agrees 0	[18:18]
asciilifeform:	)	[18:18]
asciilifeform:	but imho it does not indicate that douchebag has learned anything in his time here.	[18:19]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: Keep in mind, this is not the type of auditing I usually do.	[18:20]
asciilifeform:	guess what, it also isn't what any of us do. because it's completely useless.	[18:20]
douchebag:	I was just doing what was asked of me	[18:20]
asciilifeform:	searching usg.cve lists is literally kindergarten minimal step even usg's automatic c/cpp auditor nonsense, does an ok job of it	[18:21]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: that's precisely the problem !	[18:21]
ben_vulpes:	http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-9#353171	[18:22]
mimisbrunnr:	Logged on 2018-05-09 23:29 ben_vulpes: ACTION curious to see if the guy leaves off at 'osint' copypasta	[18:22]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: you did ~only~ the minimal interpretation of what was asked. like a schoolboy. instead of, e.g., annotating this list with 'is this an actual vuln in actual physical trb'	[18:22]
douchebag:	I don't program in c or c++, I don't do binary exploitation, I don't do reverse engineering	[18:22]
asciilifeform:	nobody was born knowing these. or carpentry. or anything else but sucking tit	[18:23]
asciilifeform:	but douchebag if you want to 'security expert', web liquishit won't cut it here.	[18:23]
diana_coman:	asciilifeform, eh, he's a schoolboy, not a lord what of it when (if) he grows up, revisit	[18:23]
asciilifeform:	diana_coman: i'd like to determine if 'short because boy' or 'short because dwarf'	[18:23]
asciilifeform:	so far, shows dangerous symptoms of the latter	[18:23]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: When it comes to web application exploitation - I'm a pro and it's rather profitible	[18:24]
ben_vulpes:	unrelated, "She had initially hesitated to work on criminal cases because she was unsure of legal and ethical issues, especially if people uploading their DNA to GEDmatch were unaware police were trawling through the database." https://archive.is/6zrLD#selection-1651.70-1651.284	[18:24]
asciilifeform:	and if boy -- certainly won't grow without kicking.	[18:24]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: old noose, eh	[18:24]
ben_vulpes:	yes but the "unsure if i should do this until people cheered for me" bit was lulzy	[18:25]
ben_vulpes:	"But the positive feedback since the Golden State Killer case convinced her to make the plunge."	[18:25]
asciilifeform:	plankton moves with the current, what.	[18:26]
douchebag:	also asciilifeform, for the type of job I would like to have web application exploitation, network attacks, and social engineering attacks are the main things I need to focus on	[18:27]
douchebag:	I think reverse engineering is cool as fuck, however it's not going to be very helpful to achieve my end goal	[18:27]
diana_coman:	douchebag, what is your end goal ?	[18:27]
douchebag:	regardless, I'd like to learn more about it over time	[18:27]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: for so long as you understand that you become a usg electro-echafaudage expert, and your fortune will rise and fall with usg's -- like patent lawyer's -- then why not, do it	[18:28]
douchebag:	diana_coman: I'd like to offer commercial penetration testing services	[18:28]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: and the 'fool's gold', usd, will buy only miami, for so long as there's any miami left, and there's long queue of people ahead of you.	[18:28]
diana_coman:	well, you can offer them already, what sort of goal is this	[18:28]
* diana_coman	goes to offer commercial penetration testing, sampling and peppering services	[18:29]
douchebag:	Well I can, but I'd like to have a job doing it. Perhaps start a security firm someday	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: the world's first ACTUAL security firm ?	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	or yet another usg appendage ?	[18:30]
diana_coman:	so your end goal is "to have a job"?	[18:30]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: do you understand the difference ?	[18:30]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816892 << dood, what are you talking about.	[18:30]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 22:19 asciilifeform: but imho it does not indicate that douchebag has learned anything in his time here.	[18:30]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: Well, the security firm I currently work for doesn't allow me to give customers actual advice on security. eg. "Hey maybe running windows server 2003 isn't a good idea for your company"	[18:31]
mircea_popescu:	why not ?	[18:31]
douchebag:	Because that wouldn't be good for business, all they let me do is install security software and configure it for customers	[18:31]
mircea_popescu:	strategic advice reserved for more senior roles, or do they simply not like any permanent fixes ?	[18:31]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[18:31]
mircea_popescu:	sounds like a terribly crummy job.	[18:31]
asciilifeform:	prolly because ibm and oracle won't dispense fresh, thick greens of printolade for uttering heresies ?	[18:31]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: You're right,	[18:31]
douchebag:	I want to work a fulfilling job where I know that I am actually providing a good service and giving customers a high quality security audit as well as high quality security products	[18:32]
douchebag:	Installing security software that intercepts all traffic (even ssl traffic) on a windows server 2003 install made me cringe	[18:33]
diana_coman:	douchebag, does it matter in your books who are the customers?	[18:33]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: 'security business' in the form in which it exists today, is strictly religious/ritual arm of usg church legitimate security business consists solely and strictly in the systematic disassembly of usg and once disassembled properly, it will exist no longer.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, let me give you a little puzzler here. so, stanley wojtowicz, the guy that robbed a brooklyn bank to pay for lizzie eden's sex change operation but failed to produce any money this way, nevertheless got paid when sidney lumet made his film. he was paid, 1% of the net. what's wrong with this ?	[18:33]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, the risk is, of course, that you end up the next http://qntra.net/2018/05/us-kangaroo-court-issues-conviction-for-kidnapped-antivirus-operator/	[18:34]
diana_coman:	asciilifeform, for all the world if the above doesn't scream "boy" at you (instead of dwarf, I don't know what else can)	[18:34]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: nuffin wrong, per se, so long as d00d understands what he gets into.	[18:34]
mircea_popescu:	ahahaha	[18:34]
mircea_popescu:	OF THE GROSS.	[18:34]
douchebag:	diana_coman: I'd imagine that only companies who actually care about their security would purchase my services	[18:35]
mircea_popescu:	every fucking noob knows this. KNOW THIS.	[18:35]
mircea_popescu:	% of the gross or no deal. hollywood is notorious for cooking books.	[18:35]
asciilifeform:	( i'll immediately admit that i am not familiar with the story )	[18:35]
douchebag:	Primarily because they would know upfront, this isn't just an audit to help them pass compliance tests	[18:35]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, it doesn't pay for companies to actually care about their security, because of the principal-agent problem and the easy exit "nobody could have predicted" offers.	[18:36]
diana_coman:	heh, weren't you just "I wanna pass compliance tests" one sec ago?	[18:36]
diana_coman:	because you don't do x and don't know y and etc	[18:36]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816901 << understand, most of the "tasks" you'll get here, and for a long while, are principally useful to you, in that they get you to fix things about yourself, such as the foregoing.	[18:37]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 22:22 douchebag: I don't program in c or c++, I don't do binary exploitation, I don't do reverse engineering	[18:37]
douchebag:	Well, most security firms just run a scanner and tell companies to "update x install y to pass compliance"	[18:37]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: so far it doesn't look to me like he's at risk of http://qntra.net/2018/05/us-kangaroo-court-issues-conviction-for-kidnapped-antivirus-operator/ , instead he's at risk of a) running 'the next mandiant' , and making 'million dollars', and thinking as result that he has something to do with 'security' or that the million is 'actual money' or, far more likely, b ) ending in sad , tall pile of hollywood-waitress-style bo	[18:38]
asciilifeform:	dies of failed attempts at (a)	[18:38]
douchebag:	I would be doing a more comprehensive audit, as well as telling them exactly what they need to do to actually be secure their company - even though my service would require more work for them it would be a betterend result for them	[18:39]
asciilifeform:	( it isn't any seekrit that asciilifeform is , among other things, a burned-out veteran of 'b' , yrs past )	[18:39]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: absolutely NO usd-paying customers of the 'security industry' give HALF A SHIT about actual results. if you do not get this through your thick skull now, you can learn it on own skin later, it doesn't make much diff to asciilifeform , which one you choose.	[18:40]
asciilifeform:	look back to the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774662 thread.	[18:40]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: aite, here : "does ubervu have a chance of ever being profitable ? absolutely never. there's complicated considerations involved, but principally determinant two : first, and absolutely unsurmountable, is that such products do not add any value, but are merely used in the way witches use crystal balls. exactly in the way. therefore, the more popular witches decide the brand of "best" crystal balls	[18:40]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816908 << i'll point something out, in the vein of the previous "tripartite idiocy" discussion : law enforcement consists of very minimal work, and even less useful work these days. you know those century-old complicated "murder investigations", with barry fitzgerald going "tis a heavy case" and so on ? NONE of that still exist the line-ups to pick up suspects are mostly gone, etcetera. la	[18:41]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 22:24 ben_vulpes: unrelated, "She had initially hesitated to work on criminal cases because she was unsure of legal and ethical issues, especially if people uploading their DNA to GEDmatch were unaware police were trawling through the database." https://archive.is/6zrLD#selection-1651.70-1651.284	[18:41]
mircea_popescu:	w enforcement is ever more a vacuous activity, consisting of a narrow few items. "found drugs in house / car" "found '''child pornography''' on computer / guy was holding a gun in the bank" etc. all that's still ongoing are tyhe "taskforces", driven by specific special interest groups, the "drugs", the "sex trafficking", the "money laundering" etc. in the 70s large cities stopped prosecuting breaking and entering, much like i	[18:41]
mircea_popescu:	n the 60s small cities stopped prosecutting petty theft. by now -- everything but murder is entirely opaque, and even murder is not actually researched in any seriousness.	[18:41]
asciilifeform:	well guess what, asciilifeform & friends had 'crystal ball' that actually ~did~ something . guess how much diff it made in 'marketplace'.	[18:41]
douchebag:	Well actually, I've found there are a lot of companies who actually do care about security. Primarily because they run bug bounty programs instead of sueing the fuck about anyone who points out their security flaws.	[18:41]
asciilifeform:	( spoiler : 0 )	[18:41]
mircea_popescu:	point in case, there are OVER A DOZEN serial killers active in california right now and nobody can be arsed to even know this.	[18:41]
diana_coman:	douchebag, from here it really looks like your end goal is really "that the world finally finds my hobby extremely useful and terribly important to the point that it ALSO becomes very meaningful"	[18:41]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: if they 'cared about security', they'd have , for instance, FUCKGOATS ( whether purchased from snsa, or built 'independently', take your pick. ) do they ??	[18:42]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: 'serial killer' is a saint, to the police state, supplies neverending flow of serfs eager to bend over and get arse searched, 'for security'	[18:43]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: Well, when you take risk appetite into consideration - attacks involving breaking prng's are rather rare and diffucult to achieve	[18:43]
mircea_popescu:	diana_coman, in either case the determination is tather premature. what's the rush. if he's a boy he has time by definition.	[18:43]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, difficult for whom.	[18:43]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: remember chikatillo ? word is, 3 men were shot for his crimes, before him. # of prosecutors shot : 0	[18:44]
mircea_popescu:	rare, in what terms. etc.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, aha.	[18:44]
asciilifeform:	chikatillo is every bit the godfearing loyal soldier of regime, as a street mugger is.	[18:44]
diana_coman:	sure I'm exposing current image, not giving a rating	[18:45]
asciilifeform:	!#s anarchotyranny	[18:45]
a111:	9 results for "anarchotyranny", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=anarchotyranny	[18:45]
mircea_popescu:	hey, his link was knee deep in "ethical considerations" and other pompous wank, dun talk to me, talk to the mentally splitten zeks, who steal from criminals but bend over for bureaucrats, discuss ethical minutia of imaginary situations and then work with doubletap usg, etc.	[18:45]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: It's not a commonly used attack by criminals working to hack companies to steal information. It's not difficult for nations state actors, however a criminal is not going to work breaking a prng when they can just use default credentials to pwn their network	[18:45]
deedbot:	http://danielpbarron.com/2018/i-would-certainly-not-like-to-be-a-bit-of-your-plankton/ << Daniel P. Barron - I would certainly not like to be a bit of your plankton.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, 99% of criminals hacking companies are working for a criminal organisation calling itself "the united states govewrnment", and 99% of the time their hacks include some rng-breaking component,.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu:	which is why nsa made phuctor not mitre-indexer.	[18:46]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: I've seen very few cases of a company being pwned by a prng being broken, I see companies getting pwned via SQLi, RCE, XXE, IDOR all the time	[18:47]
mircea_popescu:	i suppose "mine owne eyes" is a tough nut to crack.	[18:47]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: Can you provide some references about companies being pwned via broken prng, and we can compare those that were pwned via SQLi, RCE, XXE, and IDOR?	[18:48]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: what to you means 'owned' ? script kiddie on forum defaces crapple.com ? because this simply isn't interesting, to anyone here. the ONLY type of 'owned' worth caring about, is , e.g., natanz uranium centrifuge, destroyed by usg without firing a shot.	[18:48]
asciilifeform:	and similar owned.	[18:49]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, it's not easy to construct a meaningful base for this comparison. how do you propose to count ?	[18:49]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: Stuxnet?	[18:49]
mircea_popescu:	!#s debian bug	[18:49]
a111:	30 results for "debian bug", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=debian%20bug	[18:49]
mircea_popescu:	^ you know what we mean by that ?	[18:49]
douchebag:	Equifax got pwned via a struts2 RCE	[18:49]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: perhaps poor example, because the poor idjit persians signed up for it, by buying siemens and running winblowz. but it is illustration of the point of MINIMAL bar for 'matters'	[18:49]
mircea_popescu:	danielpbarron, the anon-e-mouse thing is a reference to a cartoon serioes by alan moore.	[18:51]
mircea_popescu:	eg, https://i.imgur.com/DKSAxns.jpg fellow's being clever, what can you do.	[18:51]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: Well I get what you're saying, breaking a prng is an incredibly effective attack vector. However, I feel that most companies are more at risk of actually being hacked via less-elegant means	[18:52]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, ceausescu is on the record with "they sell us todays' tech at tomorrow's prices, but what can you do". persians bought what could be bought. not like anyone sells them useful stuff.	[18:52]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: granted, forced mistake	[18:53]
asciilifeform:	just like ru still runs on winblowz.	[18:53]
mircea_popescu:	they lack the initiative to do anything about it and the means to do anything without the initiative and so on. chain of foibles.	[18:53]
asciilifeform:	nao either ~could~ , in deep theory, show up here , and ask nicely.	[18:54]
asciilifeform:	but i expect hell will freeze first.	[18:54]
douchebag:	Now with that said, I think it would be a very interesting career being a vulnerability broker - however there are a lot more risks in terms of nations state attacks for that sort of stuff.	[18:54]
douchebag:	For instance, Zerodium	[18:54]
asciilifeform:	ahahahahaha	[18:55]
asciilifeform:	usgodium	[18:55]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, look, sooner or later you'll have to decide if you wish to be an engineer or a singer. it's one or the other, however you call them, the carpenter-or-whore dilemma.	[18:55]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: what makes you think you know what 'vulnerability broker' looks like ? or even that such a thing is even possible ?	[18:55]
mircea_popescu:	neither this decision, nor the definitions of the terms involved, work as a matter of future projection. it's all in the past, the singer processes past experience one way, the engineer another way. that's all there is to it.	[18:55]
mircea_popescu:	as it happens, mostly as a function of personal bias, ~everyone here with the exception of me assings value to engineering and no value to whoring. i tend to assign a value of about to cents to either, allowing for roundings.	[18:57]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: Well, if you're a vulnerability broker you're purchasing and selling exploits that have extremely high potential impact. I think it's safe to assume there's a high level of risk associated with holding	[18:58]
mircea_popescu:	kinda ~same as associated with being superman.	[18:58]
douchebag:	Exactly	[18:59]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: i hold that it is impossible to sell exploits, and the NO ONE does it. what they do instead, is accept gifts of chocolate and flowers (aka 100s of k usd ) from usg agents, in exchange for keeping nsa vulns off the public forum for a few extra bonus months.	[18:59]
asciilifeform:	understand ? microshit's '250k for exploit for win10' is SAME THING AS BOX OF CHOCOLATE to , e.g., asciilifeform .	[19:00]
asciilifeform:	or to you.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu:	well maybe not to him.	[19:00]
asciilifeform:	after the tax people get done with you, you'll ~owe~	[19:00]
asciilifeform:	would you take leprous cock in every hole, douchebag , for box of chocolate ??	[19:00]
mircea_popescu:	this is an exaggeration.	[19:00]
asciilifeform:	( because that's what it is , to willingly keep a secret for microshit. leprous cock. )	[19:01]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: point being that it ain't serious money, it will not buy a man freedom	[19:01]
mircea_popescu:	due to how the imperial tax regime works, a gift of a few %s of your current income may end up a net negative if it bumps your bracket, so you have the choice of either paying 15% of 100% or else 22% of 106%, the latter is worse even if 106% is more.	[19:01]
asciilifeform:	or even upgrade him to 'inner party shop'	[19:01]
mircea_popescu:	nevertheless, this applies to a few thousands 250k takes you into top bracket anyway.	[19:01]
asciilifeform:	it's 1-2 yr's pay, for programmer.	[19:02]
asciilifeform:	you spend it, it's gone.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu:	the "buy freedom" thing is an unrelated consideration. no one has to my knowledge yet manage to bottle freedom so necessarily those pursuing it in the walmart shelvery are deluding themselves.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu:	there's all sorts of pulp/sf in this vein, "buying memories", whatever.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu:	but in point of fact the sort of freedom you buy is sold to you by clinton.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu:	and it's more properly called "rights".	[19:03]
asciilifeform:	in practice there is such a thing as 'enuff coin to never work for a living again', and granted it comes with caveats , like for instance not being part of the snail of the bellcurve . but nevertheless it exists.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816938 << wait until he discovers that the customers dun want quality, and other problems with the democratic world.	[19:04]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 22:32 douchebag: I want to work a fulfilling job where I know that I am actually providing a good service and giving customers a high quality security audit as well as high quality security products	[19:04]
asciilifeform:	gotta luvvv 'fulfilling job' phrase.	[19:04]
asciilifeform:	i dun think i've ever seen it emitted by a d00d in earnest, vs on stage	[19:04]
mircea_popescu:	it is a legitimate desire, why not.	[19:04]
asciilifeform:	because it's a fried ice.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu:	what they call "fulfilling job" is "item satisfying layers 1-3 on mp's restatement of maslow pyramid"	[19:05]
asciilifeform:	ain't nobody about to pay a whore to self-fulfill, other than by happenstance.	[19:05]
asciilifeform:	fulfillment is what happens in costa rica, surrounded by slavegurlz and rocket battery, in throne.	[19:06]
mircea_popescu:	he means a job that 1. provides him with the physical necessities (physical dominance) and 2. with time-security (ie, not that he's fed now but that he can feed himself, permanently) and 3. with recognition (ie, that nubile women notice he got 1 and 2 and flock to him).	[19:06]
asciilifeform:	not at 'job'.	[19:06]
mircea_popescu:	this is the basis of the unexamined life neh.	[19:06]
asciilifeform:	no i know what the physiological urges are.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu:	http://trilema.com/2014/that-aint-the-maslow-pyramid-yo/#selection-611.0-665.0 << orig.	[19:07]
asciilifeform:	point being, the fact that d00d thinks that they can be meaningfully fulfilled , as a palpable, achievable thing, ~as usg jobsworth~, is astonishing, to me.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu:	why ? he's young.	[19:08]
mircea_popescu:	and besides -- not so very long ago, it could be. almost.	[19:08]
asciilifeform:	vhs america.	[19:08]
douchebag:	I just want to have a job that I can enjoy doing. The reason I don't enjoy my current job is because it doesn't require any critical thinking, and in fact is discourages it. I would have a great time hacking companies and telling them how to fix their security.	[19:09]
asciilifeform:	populated, as mircea_popescu helpfully reminds readers, with 'wives who talk back'	[19:09]
douchebag:	I'd also like to publish writeups about my research and be recognized as someone who actually knows what the hell they're doing.	[19:10]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: picture, for the sake of argument, that they ~actually fixed~. what'll you do then ?	[19:11]
asciilifeform:	or , lemme guess, you do not actually want to see it ~fixed~.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, you picture, for the sake of argument, that anyone already knew, so was no further need of writing trilema.	[19:11]
douchebag:	Fix the next companies security, there will always be someone that secures their shit.	[19:11]
mircea_popescu:	"What would i do then ?!" fuck me, i dunno, break down and cry, really ?!	[19:11]
mircea_popescu:	how about nothing.	[19:11]
douchebag:	and do that until I can retire	[19:12]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: yer not aspiring to be a saddles-and-bridles makin' craftsman, tho	[19:12]
mircea_popescu:	i'm not aspiring to anything.	[19:12]
asciilifeform:	right	[19:12]
asciilifeform:	but douchebag -- apparently is	[19:12]
mircea_popescu:	but that also changes nothing.	[19:12]
mircea_popescu:	https://archive.is/6zrLD#selection-1593.15-1605.1 << anyway, pretty great biophuctor item, this.	[19:14]
asciilifeform:	asciilifeform not so long ago read a treatise on psychology of india, by a 1880s british preacher. was interesting document, but in particular author is astonished re the dedication to work, and to the utterly meaningless drudgery, of the lowest castes. probably phf saw this even in modern india, when he went. and asciilifeform to some degree saw among some emigres in usa. douchebag you ain't from india, perchance ?	[19:14]
douchebag:	Nope	[19:15]
asciilifeform:	then even moar perverse.	[19:15]
asciilifeform:	if you were from india, douchebag , it'd make some kind of sense.	[19:15]
douchebag:	Well, I just don't see why it's a bad thing to want to do something I enjoy and be good at it.	[19:15]
douchebag:	Doesn't everyone want to do that?	[19:16]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: they've thrown money at the 'we still have holdout from whom we don't have samples, how to use cousins' problem.	[19:16]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, i see that even here. these people LOVE to work.\	[19:16]
mircea_popescu:	horribly mismanaged, but work, they love.	[19:16]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: at this point it is safe to suppose that usg has biophuctor coverage of erryone in nato reich, and a good % -- outside.	[19:16]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: it is one possible way to fill empty souls and it beats , in re habitability of locale, the other stable state.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu:	im not sure that's the driver, but anyway.	[19:17]
mircea_popescu:	funny thing, this dude, who had more sex than ~anyone in california (50+ rapes, srsly ? 1 in 1000 males or less do 50 different girls over their lifetime) nevertheless had a small penis.	[19:25]
douchebag:	I don't have a small penis	[19:26]
douchebag:	I'm also not a rapist	[19:26]
douchebag:	50+ though, what's the average?	[19:27]
mircea_popescu:	not you dood. this "golden state killer" with the dna evidence.	[19:27]
douchebag:	I know, I stopped counting at 30 when I was 17	[19:28]
douchebag:	34 actually	[19:28]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: it isn't clear that gigantic cocks make the work of serial raping, any easier ( if anyffing -- harder ? )	[19:33]
mircea_popescu:	there's a school in the modern phrenology that calls itself "physchology" relating high testosterone with aggressive behaviour and larger penii.	[19:33]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, fwiw, the guy did criminal life correctly. extensive research, and follow-up calls, to selecte & educate the victims of previous rape, strict avoidance of the low-ante trap, there's entirely no flaw in there.	[19:35]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816718 << hah, i originally watched it for the same reason, and the only thing i even remember is burroughs sitting in the chair, and spitting the "narcotics" prediction in his famous squeaky voice	[19:35]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 20:52 mircea_popescu recently re-watched http://trilema.com/2011/drugstore-cowboy/ it is notable because pretty much the last extant footage of w s burroughs.	[19:35]
mircea_popescu:	phf, ~nothing else there.	[19:35]
phf:	for the logs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZszbqdOq7g	[19:40]
phf:	man spent his old age lending his presence to all kinds of experimental projects, all of which a remembered only through "burroughs once stopped by our studio"	[19:42]
mircea_popescu:	aha.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu:	what else can old man do with his husk ?	[19:44]
asciilifeform:	momentarily revisiting douchebag : 5yrs ago asciilifeform suffered from same fog, thought there was ( or at least could be ) such a thing as 'security company' , or 'make a living finding bugs', etc., even went and opened up a thing, with coupla other d00dz, and we had an actual working piece of tech, BUT no friends in nomenklatura, and -- quite predictably -- it ended with nothing to show but empty pockets and old faded stationary.	[19:48]
asciilifeform:	( could have ended more painfully, i suppose, latvian-style , say )	[19:48]
asciilifeform:	and asciilifeform suffers from the typical delusion of old people , specifically that it is somehow worthwhile to warn young folx away from obvious chumpatron bear trap.	[19:48]
asciilifeform:	but i suppose it ain't worth it, they gotta step in the bear trap.	[19:48]
asciilifeform:	to learn anything at all.	[19:48]
* asciilifeform	bbl,meat	[19:49]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, the problem with you isdn't that you lack useful experience, but that you lack any apparent clue in how to communicate it effectually. when dealing with people who are both a) unsurprised and b) well structured, they can sometimes, if within the effort cap they're willing to expend, break up the content out of its very unfortunate prison of form. but otherwise, the communication fails to occur, and especially a	[19:52]
mircea_popescu:	t the polar opposite of dealing with kids, you are terrifyingly bad.	[19:52]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817082 >> no, actually. most women want to http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-133.57-133.334 which is the point of diana_coman 's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816974 comment (not that she's a woman but it's not clear to her whether your worldview is womanly in this sense). note importantly that the objection is ~re the source of meaning~, which is a cult	[19:57]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 23:16 douchebag: Doesn't everyone want to do that?	[19:57]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 22:41 diana_coman: douchebag, from here it really looks like your end goal is really "that the world finally finds my hobby extremely useful and terribly important to the point that it ALSO becomes very meaningful"	[19:57]
mircea_popescu:	ural not a civilisational aspect, and not immediately measurable.	[19:57]
mircea_popescu:	there being a difference between the hunter that catches some quarry and the bear that catches the same exact quarry : the bear -- is not a hunter. which goes right into the lengthy strand of http://trilema.com/2015/peripateticists-kinda-except-girls-not-boys-bare-cunt-instead-of-toga-and-walking-around-the-house-not-the-garden-but-otherwise-exactly-the-same/#selection-571.0-570.1 spittoon.	[19:59]
mircea_popescu:	and which also illuminates the indictment of xtianity as a fundamentally female worldview, and all the rest of http://trilema.com/2017/and-dont-go-around-upgrading-the-testaments-either/ : by the time they invent a "son" of god so that "You don't follow for a very simple reason : these men are screwballs. God has children ? What, and a dog ? A collie, maybe ? God doesn't have children. He's a bachelor. And very angry!" "He us	[20:05]
mircea_popescu:	ed to be angry." "What, he got over it ?" ( http://trilema.com/2016/hail-cesar/#selection-53.0-52.9 ), which "son" then has to come up with inane bullshit like "look at the birds and the bees -- they're not hunters, nor do their sow or reap, their existence is flatly meaningless, so could you live in the perfect womb of jonah's whale whose name is stupidity" or if you prefer the direct quote, "want to live darkly and richly i	[20:05]
mircea_popescu:	n my femaleness." / http://trilema.com/2010/feminismul-inteles-drept-cult/#selection-27.0-27.120 ...	[20:05]
douchebag:	asciilifeform: What sort of security company?	[20:10]
douchebag:	I know loads of people in the InfoSec field, and for the most part they're all well off	[20:11]
douchebag:	For fucks sake, I know a 17 year old who has made $70k this year alone	[20:12]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817061 << in fact, the problem with this discouragement isn't ~the job~, but the world in which the job exists.	[20:13]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 23:09 douchebag: I just want to have a job that I can enjoy doing. The reason I don't enjoy my current job is because it doesn't require any critical thinking, and in fact is discourages it. I would have a great time hacking companies and telling them how to fix their security.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, this isn't in dispute, sure, why not.	[20:13]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: Just curious, what problems do you see in my train of thought in regards to an InfoSec career?	[20:14]
mircea_popescu:	specifically that your expectation that the solution to the " it doesn't require any critical thinking, and in fact is discourages it" problem being "change the job" is about as naive as thinking the solution to "there's no deeper connection" is "change hooker".	[20:16]
mircea_popescu:	but i also do not see anything fundamentally wrong with you holding this view until changed a few hookers.	[20:16]
douchebag:	Well, I've spoken to management about this and they basically told me that they aren't willing to do anything to actually help the customers and just want to sell our service	[20:17]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[20:17]
douchebag:	Not to mention, I'm only making $35k/yr and I work 60 hours a week	[20:17]
douchebag:	It's really easy to think I need a job change, when I made more in 30 minutes of bug bounty hunting last week than I do in three weeks from my current job after tax	[20:18]
mircea_popescu:	absolutely.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu:	hey, looky, i'm not saying you can't do better for yourself with a few simple tweaks, without requiring revolutionary, massive changes.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu:	moreover, i'm a great supported of incremental progress.	[20:19]
douchebag:	I'm at the point right now, where I feel like if someone offered me $700/week to do any InfoSec work that I'm qualified to do - I would quit this job and take it in two seconds flat.	[20:21]
douchebag:	Everyone at this job just works there because they know that it will never require more out of them but to run an installer and configure this specific software for the customer.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu:	i expect.	[20:22]
douchebag:	I don't work well with these type of people	[20:22]
mircea_popescu:	one step above mcdonalds.	[20:22]
douchebag:	Exactly!	[20:22]
douchebag:	Hell, I would even be more willing to get paid less as long as I knew it wasn't going to be the same shit, everyday, with no signs of ever improving	[20:24]
mircea_popescu:	the correct approach is to a) build yourself a nest egg and b) start up.	[20:25]
douchebag:	Could you elaborate on a) build yourself a nest egg?	[20:25]
mircea_popescu:	which is roughly what informed http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1808692 ie the previous pass.	[20:26]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-04 03:13 mircea_popescu: tell you what : do trinque's thing then do the ssh/ssl thing then we can talk about you running this thing exactly like pizarro is run, why the hell not.	[20:26]
douchebag:	I'll do that right now	[20:26]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, it helps immensely to have a pile of money lying about. you never know what you have to pay for and you don't want to have to take a job.	[20:26]
douchebag:	I only got the job I'm working at right now because I need to do something so that I can move	[20:27]
mircea_popescu:	aha.	[20:28]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: So for the ssh/ssl thing	[20:31]
douchebag:	ssh-rsa AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAADAQABAAABAQCnGPcqozjoIC989MI+KKzeWIhGupgUQlbhHp0rXlAmvRHUIJHFqmcIPA9wW6Q46mOg7EdS27H/9qgREFbZOqf8CAcVMUWyJ4AhFCTcmt0uv0ETVWwqT1/puJ92/qK6ycpzR0xWeUTsQwXEemMQsR8f4fA9OiH8rIAXV2zesQbg4sijeadcK3a3FEwyowU1WsqYqOxpK2HDl7vAiOu5RXI2Ed6Bmmt/z+9S4SdNBdrGwK1VT886HERQOlaIWy0dh1u8O9g8zmhUiNwhOw7HsmvmuFp39tKQw1hnAXd6JrU4qrklOgV2lFQLcLMSRKHWRj1nuHiJ/QNK2Mud3WwWnD5R	[20:31]
douchebag:	I would just be grabbing that and loading it into phuctor, correct?	[20:32]
douchebag:	-----BEGIN RSA PUBLIC KEY-----	[20:34]
douchebag:	MIIBCgKCAQEApxj3KqM46CAvfPTCPiis3liIRrqYFEJW4R6dK15QJr0R1CCRxapn	[20:34]
douchebag:	CDwPcFukOOpjoOxHUtux//aoERBW2Tqn/AgHFTFFsieAIRQk3JrdLr9BE1VsKk9f	[20:34]
douchebag:	6bifdv6iusnKc0dMVnlE7EMFxHpjELEfH+HwPToh/KyAF1ds3rEG4OLIo3mnXCt2	[20:34]
douchebag:	txRMMqMFNVrKmKjsaSthw5e7wIjruUVyNhHegZprf8/vUuEnTQXaxsCtVU/POhxE	[20:34]
douchebag:	UDpWiFstHYdbvDvYPM5oVIjcITsOx7Jr5rhad/bSkMNYZwF3eia1OKq5JToFdpRU	[20:34]
douchebag:	C3CzEkSh1kY9Z7h4if0DStjLnd1sFpw+UQIDAQAB	[20:34]
douchebag:	-----END RSA PUBLIC KEY-----	[20:34]
douchebag:	or that actually	[20:34]
mircea_popescu:	there's a numbert of things here. one is, get a settlement with trinque. the second is, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816875.	[20:34]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 22:14 mircea_popescu: douchebag, now go through your wot, ask the people with -s to please take them off, see what they want from you to do so.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu:	those are more important, we're trying to work to limit the reputational damage you incur by being the word's most improbable mixture of youthful add and solipsistic otaku.	[20:35]
douchebag:	Alrighty	[20:35]
mircea_popescu:	and once that is done : connect to every machine on the internet, for ssh ~and https~, and extract all the keys they have, such as the item you listed above, yes, for ssh, and the pubkeys they keep in cert dirs for https.	[20:36]
douchebag:	!!reputation douchebag	[20:36]
deedbot:	http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/2EU3Q/?raw=true	[20:36]
mircea_popescu:	these will have to be converted into a useful form, but fitting this up can be done during your scan, which will take weeks anyway.	[20:36]
douchebag:	ben_vulpes, esthlos, and danielpbarron - is there anything I can do to to repair my reputation? Let me know, and get back to me.	[20:37]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1817113 << evidently !	[21:10]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 23:52 mircea_popescu: t the polar opposite of dealing with kids, you are terrifyingly bad.	[21:10]
mircea_popescu:	well... it doesn't have to be that way. you simply must collapse the trees on the basis of the constructed image of the kid's mental structure, not on the basis of the subjective perception of importance.	[21:11]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817122 << roughly speaking, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-12#1236241 , but it's long dead and buried nao.	[21:12]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 00:10 douchebag: asciilifeform: What sort of security company?	[21:12]
a111:	Logged on 2015-08-12 19:04 ascii_field: the gold standard for this kind of work is instrumented hardware	[21:12]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: i suspect that my grasp of the former, is deficient	[21:12]
mircea_popescu:	yes the most important point if discussing geometry is how it's exaclty undifferentiable from algebra but nobody was helped by this observation in front of the 5th grade math class.	[21:13]
mircea_popescu:	and yes it's strictly wrong to think "math has fields", but then again kuhn explains to you why the spurious arbitrary structures are ~needed~.	[21:13]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817124 << douchebag , this only seems like 'big bux' to a young fella. and yes you can be a salary man and your salary will go up 4x in 10 yrs but your living expenses, they will go up 5x. and they will keep going up when salary plateaus, and the rent is still due when you are between slave galleys, and rowing on a galley just fundamentally sucks arse regardless of how many green candy wrappers the	[21:14]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 00:12 douchebag: For fucks sake, I know a 17 year old who has made $70k this year alone	[21:14]
asciilifeform:	y give you.	[21:14]
mircea_popescu:	the one allowance to be made here is that ~not for everyone~. some people -- genuinely content to.	[21:16]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817133 << ever work with audio amps ? or with radio transmitter ? do you know what is a decibel, or why a 1000 watt radio station is only , in effect, twice as 'loud' as a 100 watt ? this applies to wage labour, 300k will not feel '10x better' than 30k.	[21:16]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 00:17 douchebag: Not to mention, I'm only making $35k/yr and I work 60 hours a week	[21:16]
asciilifeform:	esp. not if it comes with 15x higher bills.	[21:17]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: some people , somewhere, are content to eat scraps from train station floor, i am sure.	[21:17]
mircea_popescu:	the point is that you gotta talk to whoever you're talking to, not talk "in general".	[21:18]
asciilifeform:	well i dun have debug probe into d00d's head he resembled, vaguely, a younger asciilifeform , so i took that tack.	[21:18]
mircea_popescu:	it's just an engineering like any other -- you build a mental model of what's going on, make predictions and verify them.	[21:19]
asciilifeform:	currently i can't decide whether d00d really wants to work on interesting problems, or is content to make cve lists in exchange for infinite supply of ice cream and a cot to sleep on.	[21:20]
mircea_popescu:	guessing is not prerequisite, but ulterior emergent property much like in the case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815809 where memory is not prerequisite but ex post facto emergent result.	[21:20]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-19 22:54 mircea_popescu: mind that there's no point in putting a bonus on "not checking notes". that's why they're notes, to be checked. let memory adapt naturally and unconstrained -- when the animal you inhabit has had enough of the motor effort to check up $X, it'll memorize it and before--- it checks.	[21:20]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, i am satisfied he's not yet found a means to answer this even for himself. so... premature concern.	[21:20]
asciilifeform:	i guess.	[21:20]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: i also admit, i feel not fully qualified to teach douchebag , because i am not a 'success story' can only teach him what ~not~ to do	[21:24]
asciilifeform:	( there are no success stories in the snake oil biz there are only lottery winners )	[21:25]
mircea_popescu:	it's altogether doubtful the history of mankind includes such an item as the "success story".	[21:25]
asciilifeform:	aaha	[21:25]
mircea_popescu:	excluding of course items such as described in http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/ and other similar ~works of fiction~ dedicated specifically to addressing that problem	[21:25]
mircea_popescu:	such as schoolbooks.	[21:25]
asciilifeform:	my current intuition is that he is at level of 17 y.o. asciilifeform 's 'want good job'(tm)(r) when he saves up some dough, he will move on to upgrade, 'want to make 'next mandiant'' then will lose it all and become hardened and into bottle.	[21:26]
mircea_popescu:	what's the rush. one step at a time.	[21:27]
asciilifeform:	'success stories' are the lure of the usg.wintel lanternfish, and never fail to lead folx to their doom.	[21:27]
asciilifeform:	well we can help him skip straight to bottle!11! lol	[21:29]
mircea_popescu:	haha.	[21:30]
mircea_popescu:	notrly how this works tho.	[21:30]
douchebag:	host: github.com	[21:31]
douchebag:	-----BEGIN RSA PUBLIC KEY-----	[21:31]
douchebag:	AAAAB3NzaC1yc2EAAAABIwAAAQEAq2A7h	[21:31]
douchebag:	RGmdnm9tUDbO9IDSwBK6TbQa+PXYPCPy6rbTrTtw7PHkccKrpp0yVhp5HdEIcKr6	[21:32]
douchebag:	pLlVDBfOLX9QUsyCOV0wzfjIJNlGEYsdlLJizHhbn2mUjvSAHQqZETYP81eFzLQN	[21:32]
douchebag:	nPHt4EVVUh7VfDESU84KezmD5QlWpXLmvU31/yMf+Se8xhHTvKSCZIFImWwoG6mb	[21:32]
douchebag:	UoWf9nzpIoaSjB+weqqUUmpaaasXVal72J+UX2B+2RPW3RcT0eOzQgqlJL3RKrTJ	[21:32]
douchebag:	vdsjE3JEAvGq3lGHSZXy28G3skua2SmVi/w4yCE6gbODqnTWlg7+wC604ydGXA8V	[21:32]
douchebag:	JiS5ap43JXiUFFAaQ==	[21:32]
douchebag:	-----END RSA PUBLIC KEY-----	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: why dontcha put them in the correct hole. phuctor's.	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	they dun do any good here in the log.	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	fwiw this is not a valid pgp key. you gotta convert'em, douchebag .	[21:33]
douchebag:	Yeah i know, i know what my problem is	[21:35]
douchebag:	fixing that right now	[21:35]
asciilifeform:	!Q later tell BingoBoingo didja ever get that crate ?	[21:35]
lobbesbot:	asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.	[21:35]
* asciilifeform	will bbl	[21:35]
Mocky:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816849 to actually answer the original question: I do like, it's quite the education.	[21:36]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 21:57 mircea_popescu: Mocky, sadly, the whatever else is mostly "books". because the only fucking altgernative is writing simple books about simple databases for http://trilema.com/2016/there-has-not-yet-been-seen-a-simple-thing-even-if-were-drowning-in-simple-people/	[21:36]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, would you prefer he web-submits rather than just spitting out a tarball for you ?!	[21:37]
trinque:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817165 << I consider the bet squared up. douchebag, proceed honorably eh? if you say you're doing something, do it.	[21:49]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 00:34 mircea_popescu: there's a numbert of things here. one is, get a settlement with trinque. the second is, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816875.	[21:49]
mircea_popescu:	cool.\	[21:50]
mircea_popescu:	for completeness : to my eyes, disinterested as i am re rando impotent sadists, the lulziest bit re chikatilo was that moment when both the defense attorney AND the prosecutor indicted the judge as being fucking clueless.	[22:00]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: When I try to load these keys into phuctor, it just asks if it's a real key	[22:05]
douchebag:	ssh-keyscan -t rsa github.com \| sed "s/^[^ ]* //" > github.pub	[22:05]
douchebag:	ssh-keygen -f github.pub -e -m pem > github.pem	[22:06]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, they're not correctly formatted.	[22:06]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817231 << for a n00b, i'd prefer to see a handful of his samples 1st, rather than e.g. deal with million keys submitted with same or garbled user comment string, say	[22:06]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 01:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, would you prefer he web-submits rather than just spitting out a tarball for you ?!	[22:06]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform, solid.	[22:06]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: it doesnt eat pems. read the log and find how to feed it.	[22:06]
asciilifeform:	( hint, i posted a script a wk or so ago )	[22:06]
asciilifeform:	and douchebag , recall that we want the what/wherefound to be in said commentstring.	[22:07]
asciilifeform:	to avoid the Framedragger problem	[22:08]
asciilifeform:	( he put only ip in the comment. )	[22:08]
asciilifeform:	whereas ~all~ humanreadable, within reason, strings that can be physically pulled from the scanned box, oughta be in there.	[22:09]
asciilifeform:	incl list of open ports.	[22:09]
asciilifeform:	ssh useragent ssl cert comment if www host -- title of pg if dns reverse lookupable - it also.	[22:10]
asciilifeform:	if has ftp -- greeting strings.	[22:10]
asciilifeform:	and response to anon login attempt.	[22:11]
asciilifeform:	see table in http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/factors ? this is how the verdict happens.	[22:11]
douchebag:	mircea_popescu: are you referring to: http://archive.is/F4u7T	[22:12]
mircea_popescu:	hm ?	[22:13]
asciilifeform:	( some items obviously do not fall into any obv class of broken crapola these have no note. but most simply have no live box at the ip in Framedragger_'s comment, by the time they popped )	[22:13]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: yes	[22:13]
asciilifeform:	or wait	[22:13]
asciilifeform:	no, douchebag , this is ancient script, only gives you a phuctor url hash, if key already known	[22:14]
asciilifeform:	it's a 2017 item, this	[22:14]
asciilifeform:	you want jurov's pem eater	[22:15]
deedbot:	http://thewhet.net/2018/05/the-state-of-the-cards/ << The Whet - The State of the Cards	[22:20]
mircea_popescu:	nice. what was that in the end, like 20 woman-hours ?	[22:23]
asciilifeform:	hanbot: i suspect that today's fiatola thread, is pertinent the reichsbanks formed a unified front against bitcoin	[22:24]
hanbot:	29.5 actually, but sure.	[22:24]
mircea_popescu:	how many ?	[22:24]
esthlos:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817173 << well in all honesty, I'm not sure I understand what wot ratings mean, since I don't see where negative ratings fit in to http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/#selection-289.0-297.96 . I rated you -1 because I detect a self-image not fitting a young guy making 35K a year for 60 hrs/week, which ultimately filters down to your ability to think rationally.	[22:24]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 00:37 douchebag: ben_vulpes, esthlos, and danielpbarron - is there anything I can do to to repair my reputation? Let me know, and get back to me.	[22:24]
esthlos:	(though it is exactly typical of a young guy in the situation, but you don't want to be like every other bozo, right?) plus, the spam with the whores annoyed me, and cutsey shit like http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816061 , and doing the minimum possible to get a job done multiple times	[22:24]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-20 18:36 douchebag: that's my name	[22:24]
asciilifeform:	took'em nearly decade..	[22:25]
hanbot:	4.	[22:25]
esthlos:	now look, esthlos is not all that much better in some ways, but the attitute you're expressing is exactly what I'm trying to fight off	[22:26]
esthlos:	of course, I got what, at least 5 years on you? but I'm not sure if my rating should reflect _potential_ or current timeslice	[22:28]
douchebag:	What attitude are you referring to exactly?	[22:29]
esthlos:	arrogance simply because you're pretty clever compared to the dogshit around you	[22:30]
mircea_popescu:	esthlos, it fits directly, "i have a small amt of information of relatively low confidence re this guy (1) and it is negative (-)".	[22:32]
esthlos:	my view flipped around when I finally encountered people who were clearly superior in a quite towering way, and I realized that in too many ways I am closer to ant than boot wearer	[22:33]
mircea_popescu:	but outside of this, wot ratings are very specifically not intended to converge to a unified ruleset.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu:	so you're required to make up your own.	[22:33]
esthlos:	cool	[22:33]
douchebag:	Well, is there anything I can do to resolve my negrate?	[22:33]
esthlos:	well what I really want to know, is if you ask because "negrate is bad, let's get rid of it" or "what flaw might this guy be seeing that I can repair and come out superior?"	[22:35]
douchebag:	Well, ultimately I'm trying to resolve any issues others have with me.	[22:36]
douchebag:	In addition to that, I'd like to know what those issues are so they don't occur again	[22:37]
esthlos:	right, but that goal only gets you past this barrier, not all the others. imho you'd be better served with a goal of "get better", so that "resolve any issues" is really "what can these people teach me" rather than "how can I make them see my true form of pure energy"	[22:39]
* trinque	can relate to mustering overabundance of confidence merely to cope with the sea of shit he was born into.	[22:40]
esthlos:	I don't want to keep rambling. my point is, I think you're somewhat irrational, and your approach is weak supporting evidence to that, though it's a step in the right direction. hence you're a -1, not a -3	[22:40]
trinque:	douchebag: the lack of reflection on what is a coping mechanism in you, and as far as I can tell no reflection whatsoever, that's the deficit	[22:41]
trinque:	the recitation of lines one might use at a tradeshow, etc.	[22:42]
Mocky:	!!v EEE5606F6C2CC8D12CF7C24E46CF15B2D7D5B0E8096962ED9347AC2EA151E9E1	[22:42]
deedbot:	Mocky rated diana_coman 1 << helped me get started in eulora, has written a lot of helpful blog posts	[22:42]
esthlos:	btw trinque, have made most of changes to vtron, just have to add mkstemp for ccl (which I know thanks to phf is #_mkstemp)	[22:43]
trinque:	yeah, I didn't even know about that feature myself, very cool.	[22:43]
esthlos:	will be ready for (another) review tomorrow evening	[22:43]
* trinque	sees the complexity, because what, you want the young males to change their mind every time they encounter words they don't understand? of course not.	[22:46]
douchebag:	trinque: Well, I don't think my over confidence is necessarily a coping mechanism. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong, however I'm a very strong willed and I'm not afraid to argue if I truly believe that I am in the right.	[22:46]
esthlos:	!!rate Mocky 2 delicious post on Ada	[22:46]
deedbot:	Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Ridax/?raw=true	[22:46]
trinque:	douchebag: being unteachable isn't a merit.	[22:47]
esthlos:	!!v 3667259ECA10A3974220FFE234E16692881CF66D33AC02AA790F21E619565E5D	[22:47]
deedbot:	esthlos rated Mocky 2 << delicious post on Ada	[22:47]
esthlos:	douchebag: but think about it, what % of things to you think 20 year old making 35K a year working 60 hrs/week is right about? you're not looking at the evidence	[22:48]
douchebag:	trinque: Well that's why I argue, if the other person can prove me wrong I'm more than willing to come to an agreement.	[22:48]
esthlos:	you shoud assume you're wrong first	[22:48]
douchebag:	esthlos: Well, generally speaking I don't assume I'm right or wrong without some sort of evidence.	[22:49]
esthlos:	hmm, I don't know you well enough to speak to that.	[22:51]
esthlos:	but, I see that you come here, bunch of lords rate you negative, and no indication from you that you detect a personal deficiency	[22:52]
esthlos:	I don't have much more to say on the matter	[22:52]
trinque:	douchebag: what do you make of the notion that the "consumer economy" will not last forever?	[22:53]
esthlos:	trinque: bbbut asteroid mining!	[22:53]
trinque:	central banks printing money so the people of walmart can buy "content", pressed shitboard, plastic, etc	[22:53]
douchebag:	I'm not too sure I really have an opinion on that, what do you make of it?	[22:53]
douchebag:	Well, obviously there's always going to be some sort of economy. As far as central banks go, I think it would be better off without them - however, I'm not sure if central banks are going to disappear any time in the near future.	[22:55]
douchebag:	A decentralized solution such as bitcoin would be great for the world and for the future, however I think it will take some time before it catches on more. As decentralized solutions begin to catch on, the banks that print currency are just going to continue to fight it	[22:58]
douchebag:	However, I'm not sure if that's a fight they will be able to win in the longrun	[22:58]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817296 << that is ~exactly~ the problem. the subjective notion of the self, while factually incorrect, is psychogenic noise emergent from a certain stability of worldview. it is simply ~impossible~, not "undesired" or anything of the sort but strictly speaking impossible for the worldview to change with arbitrary frequency.	[22:58]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 02:46 trinque sees the complexity, because what, you want the young males to change their mind every time they encounter words they don't understand? of course not.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu:	how often it can change while the individual remains realised (as opposed to "derealized", as in the psych term of art) is a subjective measure, in the vein of "intelligence", and a much better predictor of future performance than most anything else.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu:	the only known pill to the mess being a sort of encapsulation, "the worldview from x priors through y structure is z" which is why disciplines such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815636 are even interesting to the thinking man. it's not that "in reading ancient cuneiform i gain a new skill of flour and water mixing into novel bread", but it is that "in managing to regard the world through the eyes of a reconstructed	[23:02]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-19 19:11 mircea_popescu: Mocky, so we know you've not spent any considerable time in the field between literary theory and hermeneutics, however you'd call it. "advanced reading".	[23:02]
mircea_popescu:	babylonian for finite and self-chosen arbitrary intervals at a time i relieve the pressure of sheer insanity the complexity of reality would otherwise force upon me".	[23:02]
Mocky:	that sounds like an interesting effect. I don't see that I'd ever come to even think about such a thing on my own.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu:	everyone sooner or later encounters the "To be, or not to be, that is the question: Whether 'tis a) nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or b) to take Arms against a Sea of troubles, and by opposing end them: c) to die, to sleep	[23:09]
mircea_popescu:	No more and by a sleep, to say we end the heart-ache, and the thousand natural shocks that Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep. To sleep, perchance to Dream" trilemma.	[23:09]
douchebag:	Just found a local file disclosure vulnerability in the UK National Health Service	[23:09]
mircea_popescu:	haha. nice.	[23:09]
douchebag:	Here's their /etc/passwd file for anyone interested	[23:10]
douchebag:	https://i.imgur.com/yiJLDUR.png	[23:10]
mircea_popescu:	lmao	[23:10]
mircea_popescu:	did they use weak debian too, to prove the point re rngs for your benefit ?	[23:10]
douchebag:	Linux version 3.10.0-327.13.1.el7.x86_64 (builder@kbuilder.dev.centos.org) (gcc version 4.8.3 20140911 (Red Hat 4.8.3-9) (GCC) ) #1 SMP Thu Mar 31 16:04:38 UTC 2016	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	probably late enough.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817305 << and how do you get out of bed in the morning with that assumption ? severe cases of this were documented, in the early days. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-20#682845 say.	[23:20]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 02:48 esthlos: you shoud assume you're wrong first	[23:20]
a111:	Logged on 2014-05-20 13:40 mircea_popescu: there was a necrodearia/mizerydearia character active 2009-2011ish, the utter epitome of it.	[23:20]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817310 << fucking can't have 1600s style "examinations on the doctrine of the faith", chiefly because of goedel's objection. our doctrine is not actually either complete or coherent.	[23:22]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 02:53 trinque: douchebag: what do you make of the notion that the "consumer economy" will not last forever?	[23:22]
mircea_popescu:	are you aware btw of that great write-up of the stubborn physics student ?	[23:22]
mircea_popescu:	https://www.mrao.cam.ac.uk/~steve/astrophysics/webpages/barometer_story.htm << for the future reader.	[23:24]
mircea_popescu:	"the student should just have played along with the http://trilema.com/2014/kink-high/ du jour" "perhaps the student should have, but we're gathered here specifically because we don't."	[23:28]
mircea_popescu:	"so what's wrong with following social convention ? it has its uses, such as you know, the rote possibility of meaning in language" "sure. there's nothing wrong with following social convention. but there's plenty wrong with attempting to enforce it on unwilling participants. maybe they have good reasons they're not following it ~in that case~."	[23:29]
mircea_popescu:	and so on until we fall over.	[23:30]
Mocky:	unrelatedly, is mexico part of mordor?	[23:34]
mircea_popescu:	the matter's unresolved.	[23:34]
Mocky:	I've never been, but a look at job listings for mexico city features tons of amzn, cisco, jpmorgn, ibm, honeywell etc.	[23:36]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817316 << there's also that historically, "decentralized banks" were deemed an evil which people sought protection from.	[23:36]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 02:58 douchebag: However, I'm not sure if that's a fight they will be able to win in the longrun	[23:36]
mircea_popescu:	Mocky, there's a usg-reservation in mexico. there's however also the headquarters of the only military force to humiliate the usg at home to date, they pretty much conquered the old mexican lands well into arizona.	[23:37]
* trinque	had not read the barometer piece, hilarious.	[23:40]
trinque:	and hey, for all I know there's money to be chumped out of the webturd security racket and into bitcoin, and he's just the man to do it.	[23:41]
douchebag:	https://hackerone.com/hacktivity	[23:42]
douchebag:	Fun fact: Hackerone offers payout in bitcoin.	[23:42]
mircea_popescu:	trinque, for instance. or maybe there's a great book awaiting the writing in there or a great woman he's not yet met, or nobody knows the future. which is why the "things not to do" list is so fucking short and vague.	[23:44]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: https://www.hackerone.com/disclosure-guidelines << 'responsible disclosure'ism, payment in kycolade, etc crapola	[23:44]
asciilifeform:	not to mention toy/childrens bounties	[23:44]
mircea_popescu:	douchebag, in the same vein, "various outfits offer bitcoin plastic" as per recent piece hanbot published.	[23:45]
mircea_popescu:	it is not always the case one can take the contents of webpages at face value.	[23:45]
asciilifeform:	oh and, behold, 'code of conduct'(tm)(r)	[23:45]
esthlos:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817334 << how else can I make the probability as low as possible that I'm not missing something crucial?	[23:47]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 03:20 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817305 << and how do you get out of bed in the morning with that assumption ? severe cases of this were documented, in the early days. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-20#682845 say.	[23:47]
douchebag:	Well I've been paid via bitcoin through hackerone before. Oh and yeah, I don't agree with the code of conduct shit either, but it's whatever. It's worth considering that all of these companies have a dedicated security team patching the vulnerabilities found, triagers are being paid to validate reports, and obviously people who make these reports are being paid.	[23:48]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: my current understanding is that, to the extent 'bitcoin plastic' had a physically real existence, however brief, it was stung to death by a million http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816727 flies	[23:51]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-22 20:59 mircea_popescu: well, do you then see how this is the only available blade of "fiat corrupts" for the empire ? dull and small as it is, it's their mangy goat, one and only.	[23:51]
asciilifeform:	i.e. became instant magnet for 'carders' from every corner of planet, and burned at the stake.	[23:51]
douchebag:	Aside from that, I don't really see what's bad about a responsible disclosure policy. I don't believe that asking people to not fuck your shit up in exchange for payment is too much to ask	[23:54]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: do you understand that it amounts to keeping secrets for usg, in exchange for hush money ?	[23:55]
asciilifeform:	the only responsible, in actuality, disclosure, is one that deals maximal damage to the fucking great satan.	[23:56]
asciilifeform:	i.e. to terrorists first and foremost. failing that -- to public.	[23:56]
douchebag:	Well, not exactly since the vulnerabilities are being patched	[23:56]
douchebag:	Thus, making it impossible for terrorist to exploit	[23:57]
asciilifeform:	let'em get raped plenty while birthing patch.	[23:57]
asciilifeform:	douchebag: hence 'ideally to terorists first'	[23:57]
douchebag:	Well, you see how this would be a bad business strategy?	[23:57]
asciilifeform:	taking usg cock for pittances, aint 'business' either	[23:58]
douchebag:	Well I would much rather be paid for finding a vulnerability than go and exploit it and risk going to prison	[23:59]
asciilifeform:	i for one will take vulns to my grave, rather than 'responsibly' give to microshit for a pot of taxolade.	[23:59]
esthlos:	in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817320 , trying to reconcile the sheer fraud of USG technology has driven me to the limits of sanity for a number of years now, and even with trilema providing the only solid counterstructure I've found, I do fragment when very successful (in USGland) people around me see no fundamental problem with USG system	[23:59]
a111:	Logged on 2018-05-23 03:02 mircea_popescu: the only known pill to the mess being a sort of encapsulation, "the worldview from x priors through y structure is z" which is why disciplines such as http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815636 are even interesting to the thinking man. it's not that "in reading ancient cuneiform i gain a new skill of flour and water mixing into novel bread", but it is that "in managing to regard the world through the eyes of a reconstructed	[23:59]

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