Forum logs for 30 Jul 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu no but just for my curiosity, what's github to do with a quarter bil ? [00:00]
mircea_popescu buy each employee ten dumptrucks full of pens ? [00:00]
decimation buy sourceforge and scam? [00:01]
decimation I donno [00:01]
decimation it's kinda the same question as "what's apple gonna do with $60b" [00:02]
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decimation one guess: hire a full-time staff of indians to vigilantly search committed code for perceived slights [00:02]
trinque god knows why, america is drunk on QE [00:02]
decimation maybe they can get into the space business too [00:03]
decimation lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales" [00:05]
decimation I'm sure the homos at apple support utf8, but apparently it doesn't work with whatever buildroot wants [00:05]
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decimation !up julmac [00:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17436 @ 0.00053317 = 9.2964 BTC [+] [00:06]
decimation lol the problem was that buildroot was grepping 'locale -a' for utf8, while apple uses 'utf-8' [00:12]
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trinque http://xtnodes.com/ << even their bullshit graph is on the descent [00:13]
assbot XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1U879cH ) [00:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.000535 = 12.519 BTC [+] [00:15]
mircea_popescu trinque you don't understand how "consensus" works [00:17]
trinque they're building it? [00:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50916 @ 0.00052796 = 26.8816 BTC [-] {3} [00:19]
mircea_popescu the funny thing will be that this schmuck will still be going around pretending like he actually exists and so forth even after this idiocy goes the way of neobee and "bitcoin security experts group" [00:19]
mircea_popescu just like phantomcircuit still goes around, an aethero waiting to happen. [00:19]
mircea_popescu somewhat related, chain jiggling. http://33.media.tumblr.com/d4a5a524277a7efa25c66c7760493d89/tumblr_mumme8jB3v1szhqszo1_500.gif [00:19]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1U87BaM ) [00:19]
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mircea_popescu decimation check it out, they need a metalocale. hopefully implemented as multibyte too! [00:23]
lobbesbot New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=3 (randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; ) [00:23]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws ) [00:24]
mircea_popescu p=3. hm. [00:24]
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decimation heh yeah. apple makes up standards as they go [00:27]
mircea_popescu (ftr, intrigeri is something crazy with the bug reports, may be all-internet record holder) [00:28]
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mircea_popescu yup, that's the only time so far 3 appears alone as a factor. [00:34]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [10:35]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [10:35]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [10:35]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [10:35]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [10:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform mnope. [10:36]
mircea_popescu re http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00#page-3 < i think it's a fabulous idea. udp belongs the same place finger, telnet and email belong. the scrapheap of a different world, one where undergrads did not have internet access. [10:37]
assbot draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 - Advisory Guidelines for UDP Deployment ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCSyG0 ) [10:37]
mircea_popescu once aol was allowed online, it necessarily followed no udp. i'm sick of having to deal with it. [10:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: single-packet auth is the only gossipd worth using. [10:39]
mircea_popescu i wish it were made a law that no isp may provide udp connectivity for a price under the minimum wage. [10:39]
mircea_popescu you can have single packet auth outside of udp. [10:39]
Azelphur mircea_popescu: you realise UDP is essential for a number of services and that they wouldn't function using TCP, right? [10:39]
asciilifeform whether it is done with udp as such or raw ip (i.e. udp with protocol field set to 666) is immaterial [10:39]
mircea_popescu Azelphur fuck them all. [10:39]
mircea_popescu and no ntp either. [10:39]
mircea_popescu i don't care what you need. fuck you and your needs. the infrastructure can't support udp in the current configuration. you don't get udp for this reason. [10:40]
Azelphur mircea_popescu: so fuck most VOIP services, Games, and anything else that requires low latency without packet delivery confirmation? XD [10:40]
mircea_popescu you want upd, make it illegal for retards to connect. [10:40]
mircea_popescu YES. [10:40]
asciilifeform the infrastructure can't support ~anything~ in its current configuration. [10:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42370 @ 0.00054411 = 23.0539 BTC [-] [10:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not germane, even though valid. [10:40]
Azelphur Also, if anything UDP is lighter on the infrastructure than TCP [10:40]
asciilifeform ^ [10:40]
mircea_popescu not so. [10:40]
mircea_popescu it is only lighter if used by responsible users. [10:40]
mircea_popescu until you get those, it's just a ddos haven. [10:40]
asciilifeform irresponsible users are to be unplugged. [10:40]
mircea_popescu do that, then i'll change my mind. [10:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the thing about raw ip is that it typically requires os support [10:41]
mircea_popescu hey, im not saying there's a good alternative. [10:41]
asciilifeform and, more direly, well-behaved routing [10:41]
mircea_popescu im just saying you don't own the moon, is all. [10:41]
mircea_popescu whether its made of cheese or not. [10:42]
asciilifeform (it is much easier to filter, and will be filtered by usg infrastructure.) [10:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu prefers to be ddosed with tcp ? [10:42]
mircea_popescu yes. much easier to filter. [10:43]
asciilifeform i will say it again, the push against udp is usg disinfo. and everyone who buys into it should retreat to the library with a copy of richard stevens and think very carefully. [10:44]
asciilifeform it is physically impossible to get any easier to filter than udp-with-signature [10:44]
asciilifeform because: no state. [10:44]
mircea_popescu no dude, your solution is right. want "internet" ? sure, 50 dollars a month gets you gawker, washitpo and crapple dot com. [10:44]
mircea_popescu they do not belong outside of the walled gardens, keep em there. [10:45]
Azelphur Surely in that example most of your business would never have existed? [10:45]
asciilifeform and i suppose i will write letters to mircea_popescu and spirit them out in the rectums of pig carcasses loaded onto the great sailing ships ? [10:45]
mircea_popescu Azelphur the part of my business that consists of redditards opining would never have existed. to my benefit. [10:46]
Azelphur (No access to outside websites -> no access to Bitcoin -> Bitcoin never takes off) [10:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the absence of a solution is not an argument in favour of shitpiles. [10:46]
mircea_popescu Azelphur http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ [10:46]
assbot Bitcoin in Argentina : exactly nothing to do with the derps on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCTVVg ) [10:46]
mircea_popescu if you imagine bitcoin took off because the muppets, you're inhabiting a very special place. [10:46]
asciilifeform routing tcp no-questions-asked while filtering packets that could be signature-authed without storing state is braindamaged. [10:47]
Azelphur heh [10:47]
asciilifeform note that i'm all for rejecting unsigned udp [10:47]
asciilifeform (presently all of it) [10:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so then we don't even disagree. [10:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the link concerned ~infrastructure~. usg is trying so that when i get my signed udp, and try to send it to mircea_popescu, it won't leave my street even. [10:48]
asciilifeform this is different from 'i recommend that mircea_popescu filter all unsigned udp at his door' [10:48]
mircea_popescu you are aware the usg can't maintain infrastructure anyway, and if you persist in staying there you will one day connect to b-a via satellite phones provided by, likely, fucking spain. [10:48]
mircea_popescu right ? [10:48]
asciilifeform alcatel is usg to me [10:48]
asciilifeform and so is every oceanic fiber. [10:49]
mircea_popescu usg is arguing that "olympics are bad mkay, not because we can't afford anything, but because <<>>". [10:49]
mircea_popescu if you think the dispute as to how internet won't be available in the future in the us comes down to what anyone wants, usg or not usg... [10:49]
asciilifeform that is one usg, yes [10:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't see this picture where it is absent in us but somehow present in patagonia [10:50]
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mircea_popescu as the bear was getting ready to stomp the anthill, the anthill in question was very animated by the following political debate : some ants wanted to tear down one wall, while some other ants thought this is stupid. [10:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, because you bought into the ridoinculous "us=world" nonsense. [10:51]
mircea_popescu tell you what, it'll fall into the ocean and nobody'll even notice. [10:51]
asciilifeform as far as the machines are concerned, this is actually true [10:51]
mircea_popescu i guess you get to see the wonder to believe the wonder then. [10:51]
asciilifeform recall thread with chinese si fabs running winblowz ? [10:52]
mircea_popescu yes. [10:52]
mircea_popescu recall the thread with the sluts living there wearing "D&G" purses ? [10:52]
asciilifeform i dare to suggest that there is not a single transoceanic line or satellite in orbit that usg could not arbitrarily diddle, or remove entirely, at their pleasure. [10:52]
mircea_popescu and also beat up superman. [10:52]
mircea_popescu tu-tu-tuuuut! [10:52]
mircea_popescu looky here : "there's no blade of grass in the forest that the doe could not shit on, at its pleasure". perhaps. fact : grass will grow through where the antlers were, and not know the difference. [10:53]
asciilifeform ultimately - certain [10:53]
mircea_popescu not that far off, either. [10:54]
asciilifeform everybody gets 'ozymandiased' in the end. [10:54]
mircea_popescu all the diddling it's gonna do, it mostly did already. [10:54]
asciilifeform recall the thread re: the 120 mains voltage ? [10:54]
mircea_popescu they're just broadly speaking acultural and unseflwarare enough, unlike the romans, so they don't spend three centuries waxing poetic over this understood situation [10:54]
mircea_popescu because too thick to understand it. [10:54]
asciilifeform some kinds of damage - stick around, long after the antlers have grown with grass. [10:54]
mircea_popescu to me 120 v is nothing but a quaint curio. [10:55]
mircea_popescu like reddit. [10:55]
asciilifeform check again once copper costs what silver does. [10:55]
asciilifeform this is not a win. [10:55]
mircea_popescu amusingly, this happens with some regularity in history [10:55]
mircea_popescu might be what, the 12th time maybe [10:55]
asciilifeform the times prior to mains current don't count. [10:56]
mircea_popescu because why ? [10:56]
asciilifeform because copper was negotiable. [10:56]
asciilifeform but efficiency and cost of cable aside, [10:57]
asciilifeform 120v is no mere curio to the folks in the u.s. or post-u.s. world whose cities burn on account of pinched-cable-and-too-many-amps [10:57]
asciilifeform a daily occurrence [10:57]
asciilifeform which is precisely twice as probably on 120v as 240 [10:57]
asciilifeform *probable [10:57]
mircea_popescu i'm sure all sorts of things are not daily curious to various troglodytes. [10:57]
mircea_popescu raped-for-being-white is, i hear, a fact of life for the losers of the 3rd boer war [10:58]
mircea_popescu still, a quaint curio for me. [10:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu had 240 run to his flat ? [10:58]
mircea_popescu 220 [10:58]
asciilifeform spiffy [10:58]
mircea_popescu oh, you mean for my brief stay there ? [10:58]
asciilifeform wherever living now [10:58]
mircea_popescu all the world is on 220 you know. [10:59]
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* asciilifeform was warned that he might encounter both american and civilized voltage in ar [10:59]
* asciilifeform not certain whether this is actual problem there or not [10:59]
mircea_popescu i guess you could get 120 if you absolutely want it, via generators [10:59]
asciilifeform jp, notably, is a 120 land [11:00]
asciilifeform for reasons of conquest [11:00]
mircea_popescu so is american samoa. what of it. [11:00]
asciilifeform what of it, is that this 'gift keeps on giving' even after washington is buried in the sand. [11:00]
mircea_popescu i don't see it. [11:01]
* assbot gives voice to lobbes [11:01]
asciilifeform like unix [11:01]
mircea_popescu just because some colonies have mental issues it does not follow anything except that some colonists need to extract head from ass. [11:01]
asciilifeform when extracting head from ass means 'you get to rebuild the things no one knows how to build now' [11:01]
mircea_popescu lmao check it out, liberia as well. that poor country. [11:01]
lobbes @rss announce list [11:01]
lobbesbot lobbes: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss [11:01]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws ) [11:01]
lobbes @rss remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss [11:02]
lobbesbot lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name. [11:02]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, that's what it always means. [11:02]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws ) [11:02]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ergo, for so long as anyone has the choice of '120v or hunt rats by candlelight', there will be 120v around [11:02]
mircea_popescu so ? [11:02]
asciilifeform so - for martian, nothing of interest. for us earthlings who live in a world not entirely of our own creation - everything. [11:03]
mircea_popescu i imagine as long as "9 volt batteries or hunt rats by candlelight" is the choice, there's going to be a lot of "9 volt" systems out there too. [11:03]
mircea_popescu why's anyone's poverty, intellectual or otherwise, a criterion ? [11:03]
asciilifeform for same reason x86 is a criterion. [11:04]
mircea_popescu hardly. [11:04]
asciilifeform same deal incidentally [11:04]
mircea_popescu not in the slightest. [11:04]
mircea_popescu x86 makes sense. 120 volt is trivially abstracted away by two step transformers. [11:05]
mircea_popescu there's no alternative to x86 on the table. [11:05]
asciilifeform but they stick around for same reason [11:05]
lobbes @rss remove phuctor [11:05]
lobbesbot lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name. [11:05]
asciilifeform (not everything is a dc power supply with arbitrary input !) [11:06]
mircea_popescu nah. one sticks around because it works. the other because it's the best alternative. you don't like either of them, it's true, but that fact does not alter the reality. [11:06]
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mircea_popescu one's a champ, the other's a hanger on. [11:06]
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asciilifeform x86 'works' is perhaps the ultimate illusion. [11:06]
asciilifeform 'supports winblowz and unix' is not 'works' [11:06]
* assbot gives voice to lobbes [11:07]
asciilifeform it sticks around because 'market' is a braindead slave to its own past, like pregnant cow [11:08]
mircea_popescu perhaps. whatd you have it run ? [11:09]
asciilifeform just pointing out the incongruity of 'x86 is winner' [11:10]
asciilifeform the situation of 'drivers', for instance, is quite analogous to situation where every block of flats has own voltage, frequency, and mains socket shape that the landlord felt like drawing on a napkin. [11:10]
mircea_popescu dja see the difference between "hmm, i intuit in my urine that x86 sucks" and "lolut, 120v? [11:10]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [11:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i see a difference of degree only [11:11]
mircea_popescu there's no alternative in a "moore's law" shithole, for very good reasons. [11:11]
mircea_popescu now that that curse's dead and buried, we can actually design this shit. [11:11]
mircea_popescu there wasn't much in the way of sane transportation routes in the fronteer, either. [11:11]
trinque asciilifeform: I did a binary diff between your binary posted to the ML and mine using bsdiff; the result was about 60kb [11:12]
asciilifeform trinque: you will notice that gcc embeds turds [11:12]
trinque might be interesting to inspect it and see what's different [11:12]
asciilifeform trinque: i did this experiment, and found quite a few variations (machine version strings - srsly, wtf gcc ? an automated annihilator for these is a necessity) ; optimizations [11:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform consider how rapidly bitcoin mining ditched the cpu, and then the gpu, to get a feel of just how unstable this domination you perceive is. [11:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there was no legacy lockin in bitcoin ! [11:13]
mircea_popescu except computing. [11:13]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: any idea why qntra snarfed my comment ? i tried posting again but i'm being told it's a "duplicate". somehow stuck in moderation ? [11:13]
mircea_popescu and microsoft fucking visual studio. [11:13]
asciilifeform in mining in particular. [11:13]
mircea_popescu there's no lockin in computing generally. [11:13]
mircea_popescu just as soon as the economics make sense, your x86 nemesis is gone. two years, tops. [11:14]
mircea_popescu TOPS. [11:14]
mircea_popescu now make the economics work. [11:14]
asciilifeform arm == x86 for my purposes. [11:14]
asciilifeform out with old hardwaremicroshit, in with new, same. [11:14]
asciilifeform where is the boundschecking cpu ? [11:15]
asciilifeform nowhere. [11:15]
asciilifeform though it existed in 1976. [11:15]
mircea_popescu same place the usable docs for bitcoin are. [11:15]
mircea_popescu waiting. [11:15]
lobbes @rss announce remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss [11:17]
lobbesbot lobbes: The operation succeeded. [11:17]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws ) [11:17]
lobbes there, no more spammy [11:17]
mircea_popescu could it just do the announcements once ? [11:17]
lobbes williamdunne: if your bot can store teh history, feel free to take over. If not, then first one there wins, I guess ;/ [11:18]
decimation lol being against udp is like being against IP [11:18]
lobbes well, I'm using the default 'supybot' RSS plugin [11:18]
lobbes which, I guess doesn't store history [11:18]
mircea_popescu lobbes and it has no storage ? aha [11:18]
lobbes aye, I'ma have to edit teh python [11:19]
mircea_popescu so any idea what causes the replay ? [11:19]
punkman it has but no persistence [11:19]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: me restarting phuctor [11:19]
lobbes ^ [11:19]
asciilifeform causes the replay. [11:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so if i restart trilema, it doesn't pop them out again [11:19]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i haven't any notion as to ~why~ [11:19]
mircea_popescu does your restart fuck up the rss feed, such as by altering the dates it displays ? [11:20]
asciilifeform not on my end ! [11:20]
asciilifeform i suspect that lobbesbot has an elementary bug where it allows rss feed to ratchet backwards [11:20]
asciilifeform i.e. loads a momentarily-down phuctor and says 'null set' [11:20]
asciilifeform then diffs from this null set when it comes back. [11:20]
lobbes I do notice the dates change on phuctor RSS [11:20]
lobbes when restart happens [11:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so the rss feed is exactly identical pre and post restart. how would the bot know something changed then [11:20]
lobbes but bot should still be able to handle [11:20]
asciilifeform lobbes: i warned many times that the dates on phuctor are meaningless [11:21]
* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [11:21]
* lobbes nods [11:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't get to respecify rss eh [11:21]
mircea_popescu people use prepackaged software [11:21]
asciilifeform i did warn. [11:21]
asciilifeform there is no field in the db presently for 'time when phuctored' [11:21]
asciilifeform there is ONLY time-submitted. [11:21]
asciilifeform i explained this in agonizing detail. it is in the log. [11:22]
mircea_popescu ok, so could it be that the lobbesbot sees new dates decides new articles ? [11:22]
decimation the only sane way to track diffs would be to keep the entire history then [11:22]
lobbes yeah, I think that is the problem, which it should be able to handle [11:22]
asciilifeform decimation: simply storing the last 20 or so would do it [11:22]
mircea_popescu yeah this scheme doesn't lend itself to much rss ing [11:22]
lobbes it should use the url as a PK [11:22]
asciilifeform but even simpler fix, [11:22]
asciilifeform DO NOT EVER RATCHET BACK! [11:22]
asciilifeform it is RETARDED [11:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's "back" when you don't keep time yo. [11:23]
* lobbes agrees [11:23]
asciilifeform 'back' is 'item is in memory cache but now isn't there when i load, it must have un-happened' [11:23]
decimation which is why you need the entire state [11:23]
mircea_popescu yeah, srsly. [11:23]
asciilifeform lobbesbot ~does~ keep a cache, [11:23]
asciilifeform i know this because it is not spewing same thing every five minutes [11:23]
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mircea_popescu lobbes can you discern if he has a point, does the cache get 0'd out if it looks at a zero feed ? [11:24]
asciilifeform the only way it could possibly work as it presently does is by storing ~some~ history [11:24]
lobbes hmm, that is true [11:24]
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asciilifeform considering that ~every single phuctored key so far~ is dated june, or may even [11:24]
asciilifeform iirc [11:24]
* assbot gives voice to Duffer1 [11:25]
mircea_popescu and speaking of udp : fucking dns definitely must go away. stupidest kludge o nthe whole internet. [11:26]
asciilifeform it is also the foremost usg organ [11:26]
asciilifeform of the direct, unabashed kind [11:26]
decimation yes, ascii's wot-signed udp would be the first application for ip-to-namespace [11:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha. [11:27]
asciilifeform what i'd really like to see is what mircea_popescu proposes i use for single-packet auth that 1) isn't udp 2) existing net will reliably route 3) existing os will agree to emit without any new code running as root [11:27]
asciilifeform and 4) isn't readily and easily flagged and filtered as 't3rr0r1st net' by 90% of world's isp [11:28]
decimation ascii has a point here ^ [11:28]
decimation udp can't be easily distinguished, and this is a gossipd-flavor [11:28]
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asciilifeform ^ [11:29]
decimation in fact, you need not put the true address of the recipient in the ip header as long as you can arrange to be somewhere to 'hear' it [11:29]
asciilifeform it is tcp which is the ultimate braindamage. [11:30]
decimation ^ [11:30]
decimation pretending that you have a connection on a completely 'broadcast' media is fucktarded [11:30]
asciilifeform bringing back state and 'i just showed up and you have no idea who i am but can i pleeez have some bytes of storage' [11:30]
* ColinT (~ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:30]
asciilifeform like the fucking orphan blox [11:31]
decimation and it's not exactly like it is hard to game the tcp state machine [11:31]
asciilifeform any protocol where someone gets something, anything more expensive than a bullet, for showing up at the gate, [11:31]
asciilifeform is ipso facto retarded. [11:31]
decimation you ban udp, and you are just gonna get syn floods [11:31]
asciilifeform no exceptions. [11:31]
asciilifeform the unfortunate place we're going to is where gossip packets can only be emitted, received, or routed by os that we personally issue; and will only travel on cables to and from mircea_popescu's house [11:33]
asciilifeform this is, i argue, an avoidable calamity [11:33]
asciilifeform and the way to avoid it is by resisting, unconditionally, any and all seemingly-reasonable suggestions by usg tools to constrict the permissible set of the net. [11:35]
asciilifeform for whatever reason. [11:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35368 @ 0.00054084 = 19.1284 BTC [-] {3} [11:35]
asciilifeform ddos only exists because of usg. as in, deliberate decision to route maladdressed packets, infrastructurally. [11:36]
asciilifeform and it is part of a 'good cop & bad cop' act [11:36]
asciilifeform don't fall for the 'good cop' [11:36]
asciilifeform who tells that 'all will be well' if only you agree to limit net to tiny permissible set of stateful protocolz [11:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: realize that udp ddoes only ever existed because the net is willing to route packets 'from victim's' machine to the idiot tv boxes, who 'answer' them [11:37]
asciilifeform *ddos [11:37]
asciilifeform this is the one and only reason it was ever possible. [11:38]
asciilifeform usg never liked the lack of inspectorial insight that udp creates. so they have deliberately set up this situation, long ago [11:38]
asciilifeform they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in. [11:39]
asciilifeform as tcp forces. [11:39]
mircea_popescu dude srsly. the fact that jews favour marriage is no argument pro or against. [11:39]
mircea_popescu udp is braindamaged in that it requires a certain sort of world. [11:39]
mircea_popescu either provide it the sort of world it requires or visit its grave. [11:40]
asciilifeform except that it doesn't [11:40]
mircea_popescu what the usg does or doesn't do, wants or doesn't want, etc is irrelevant to everything, usg included. [11:40]
* decimation is confused how any criticism of udp doesn't apply directly to any 'higher' ip protocol [11:40]
mircea_popescu decimation upd is hard to filter. [11:41]
asciilifeform it is relevant to having created this bizarre situation where mircea_popescu thinks that tcp somehow solves ANY of the problems discussed earlier [11:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you said yourself it's easier to filter! [11:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: very easy to filter: reject anything that isn't a valid gossipd packet addressed to your key [11:41]
mircea_popescu mno. [11:41]
mircea_popescu i gotta check keys. takes memory allocation. ddos. [11:41]
asciilifeform no allocation! [11:41]
decimation preallocated [11:41]
mircea_popescu ahaha what. [11:41]
asciilifeform statically allocated buffer [11:42]
asciilifeform can verify packets at line speed. [11:42]
asciilifeform (not even speaking of fpga variant here) [11:42]
decimation no need for cpu either [11:42]
decimation but oculd have in first instance [11:42]
mircea_popescu dude get out srsly. i had dedicated machinery go down because random muppet + udp. [11:42]
mircea_popescu what are you even on about. [11:42]
decimation how many of the muppet's packets were signed? [11:43]
mircea_popescu me to isp "turn off fucking udp altogether, it's stupid" isp to me "you'll have toi buy the trunk" [11:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: your machinery goes down even when you instruct it to drop all udp on the floor ? [11:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the sort of machine that currently goes down is well i nthe six figure range. [11:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you gotta understand the protocol stack. [11:43]
decimation lol [11:43]
mircea_popescu getting EVERYONE to entirely drop udp as a matter of policy would be a huge gain for me. [11:44]
decimation I process 1 gigE udp at line rate on commodity server [11:44]
mircea_popescu decimation any time you wanna try processing 2-5mps let me know. [11:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: so then you get flooded with TCP SYNs. same difference. [11:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nope, those i filter ok. [11:44]
decimation or acks [11:44]
mircea_popescu neither. [11:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but not udp? [11:44]
mircea_popescu udp is the problem atm. [11:44]
mircea_popescu yes., [11:44]
asciilifeform throw out your filter then [11:44]
asciilifeform and get new one [11:44]
decimation ^ [11:44]
asciilifeform because SAME FUCKING COMPUTATIONAL LOAD [11:44]
* mircea_popescu shrugs. [11:44]
asciilifeform to filter tcp syn vs empty udp [11:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform stop being theoretical on me. sure same load, not same amplification available. [11:45]
mircea_popescu who the fuck is going to create a syn flood for you. [11:45]
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asciilifeform enemy. [11:45]
asciilifeform who else. [11:45]
mircea_popescu seriously, this discussion is asymmetrical. [11:45]
mircea_popescu i handle about two ddos attacks a week. [11:45]
mircea_popescu you maybe think about the theory of datagrams once a week. [11:45]
asciilifeform not as theoretical as mircea_popescu might think [11:46]
mircea_popescu in any case : if it were the rule that udp gets dropped universally, i wouldn't have to have above convo with provider. [11:46]
asciilifeform and never see gossipd [11:46]
mircea_popescu i'd count this as a plus. [11:46]
mircea_popescu ima see gossipd alright. atm, the infrastructure is not the problem. [11:47]
mircea_popescu it being written is the problem. as always. [11:47]
asciilifeform over what single-packet proto ? [11:47]
mircea_popescu excel to excel viruses! [11:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ftr, i am noit proposing orphan-block TCP is any better. shouldreally be TCP/OB [11:54]
mircea_popescu nevertheless... [11:54]
mircea_popescu no solutions available does not make shit palatable. [11:54]
mircea_popescu i still wish udp died, and with it all the "Services" it provides. starting with dns, ntp and come to think about it [11:55]
mircea_popescu it's a fucking wonder "locales" don't somehow udp. [11:55]
decimation ntp has a fucktarded exploit - that makes neither 'exchange of time' nor 'udp' retarded [11:56]
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mircea_popescu ntp IS a fucktarded exploit. of itself. [11:57]
mircea_popescu i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea. [12:00]
mircea_popescu what, jam tomorrow, maybe one day ima get gossipd over udp, perhaps, who knows ? meanwhile half the remaining usg online is BASED, and requires udp to survive at all ? [12:01]
mircea_popescu paint my nails and call me mary what the fuck is this. [12:01]
mircea_popescu no more udp => no more dns, no more ntp. win of all fucking time, i'd pay to see this happen tomorrow. [12:02]
mircea_popescu also true. [12:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00053864 = 30.9179 BTC [-] [12:06]
kakobrekla some providers can in fact drop all incoming udp traffic per ip. [12:08]
decimation I thought this was pretty standard for 'adult' cloud services [12:08]
decimation amazon aws certainly will not pass anything unless firewall is configured, for instance [12:09]
kakobrekla i wasnt talking about clold specifically. [12:09]
decimation it ought to be simply done in any standard router too [12:10]
kakobrekla i was in the place where mp is and they wouldnt do it. [12:10]
kakobrekla i moved. [12:10]
mircea_popescu decimation yes, unfortunately, yhet another advantage for shithole cloud. "hey, we drop udp at least". exactly the good cop bad cop alf was proposing. but i am not moving to fuckingf cloud, and im not using fucking cloudflare and so fucking om. [12:11]
decimation merely an example of an isp that can program routers [12:11]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i might. atm not really a big enough deal, whatever, some people can't read trilema for half a day or w/e. but we were discussing the general point. [12:11]
mircea_popescu and the general point is udp does not belong. [12:12]
decimation so you are against single packet routing in general? [12:13]
kakobrekla he is coming back because he is getting that half hour. [12:13]
mircea_popescu no, i am against udp. [12:13]
kakobrekla as far as i can tell the attacker of qntra (trilema?) is the same as it was of bitbet last ddos. [12:13]
kakobrekla but my box did not go down. [12:13]
kakobrekla and i dont even have udp blocked. [12:13]
mircea_popescu do tell ? [12:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42487 @ 0.00054411 = 23.1176 BTC [+] [12:14]
* decimation fails to comprehend the difference between 'udp bad' and 'routing single ip packets good' [12:15]
mircea_popescu decimation udp is widely deployed in the hands of idiots. [12:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'm on a consumer fiber and, with modern hardware on my end (by no means six-figure), udp flood does not touch me. [12:16]
mircea_popescu everything that gives idiots voice is the avatar of evil. [12:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform did you ever have a decent one ? [12:16]
kakobrekla i am at online.net, recommended by davout (paymium). they have serveral levels of infrastructure to mitigate attacks. [12:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as decent as it gets (line saturation) [12:16]
mircea_popescu jhahahaha [12:16]
mircea_popescu you're new, seriously. [12:16]
mircea_popescu as decent as it gets = 500x line saturation three hops upstream. [12:16]
asciilifeform i mean, they can't walk in any faster than the 100Mb ethernet into the bldg [12:16]
mircea_popescu yes, they can. they can send you a trillion packets in fifteen minutes. [12:17]
mircea_popescu because, again, udp. [12:17]
asciilifeform ok, those get dropped somewhere else [12:17]
mircea_popescu o i see. [12:17]
kakobrekla iirc server saw about 800 megs of the 5 gigabit incoming garbage [12:17]
mircea_popescu good for you. [12:17]
asciilifeform because how are they to walk in? [12:17]
decimation no, because ntp machines and misconfigured routers allow sending arbitrary packets [12:17]
asciilifeform through the window ? [12:17]
mircea_popescu they just take off the thing upstream. which IS six figures. [12:17]
mircea_popescu decimation fuck this "misconfigured" bs. because udp. [12:18]
mircea_popescu it is on its head. [12:18]
asciilifeform my isp clearly did not get defrauded in the same way as mircea_popescu's - because their six-figure machine does not as a result go down [12:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you're basically falling fore the "shared hosting" bit [12:18]
mircea_popescu your isp never had the problem, is all. [12:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not suggesting that everyone is to move to mordor and subscribe to this isp [12:18]
mircea_popescu feel safe all you want, and maybe you never get to matter enough to find out better. [12:18]
asciilifeform but will point out that the million-chump botnet can just as easily transmit syn flood as udp crud [12:19]
decimation ^ using misconfigured routers [12:19]
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asciilifeform go, 'feel safe' because you went along with usg's transparent attempt to ban the only presently working single-packet transmission medium. [12:20]
asciilifeform ~they~ kick the dog [12:21]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu volunteers to shoot it, not realizing that the dog-kicker will kick every dog mircea_popescu ever bends to pet [12:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's not the "million chump botnet" [12:22]
mircea_popescu it's the dumbass services currently sitting on udp. [12:22]
mircea_popescu and you've never answered ot the main point here. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218091 [12:23]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 14:57:20; mircea_popescu: i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea. [12:23]
kakobrekla you are all being theoretical. in practice you stop udp at least one step before the server in any way you particularity like and be done with it. [12:23]
mircea_popescu otherwise, the chump herd is eminently handle-able. the havok they can wreak by employing udp amps, not. [12:23]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla myeah. [12:23]
mircea_popescu except if that trunk serves idiots who need or think might need udp [12:23]
decimation but that's not udp's fault [12:23]
mircea_popescu in which case you have to pay. [12:23]
mircea_popescu yes, IT IS. [12:23]
jurov how is banning of udp going to magick dns/ntp away? [12:24]
decimation it's the fault of the misconfigured routers and the idiot ntp code [12:24]
mircea_popescu let them run on tcp/ip, should be fun to watch. [12:24]
mircea_popescu decimation if you shoot my dog by accident ima bury you [12:24]
mircea_popescu it can be the fault of the shitty gun you bought. buy better guns or more funerals. [12:24]
jurov then you'll just enable the reflection attacks right to your tcp port 80.. indeed fun to watch [12:25]
asciilifeform no routing of forged dest ip >>>>> no amplification ddos. [12:25]
asciilifeform that simple. [12:25]
* mircea_popescu reserves the sovereign right to blame anyhone on the path to the "accident" he chooses. so no, it's not "the misconfigured routers", i'm not the pitbull you put in the doorway, slam the door and it then "blames the misconfigured door". [12:25]
decimation okay, let's imagine a new 'mpdp' that is the same as udp except carries an extra bit to indicate whether the bearer is an idiot [12:25]
mircea_popescu atm, im blaming udp. and i would very much like to see it go away, right now. [12:25]
asciilifeform enjoy the syn floodz [12:26]
mircea_popescu leaving the entire pile of usg services in the lurch. [12:26]
asciilifeform so 'easy to filter' because ~no one is doing them~ [12:26]
asciilifeform because presently no need. [12:26]
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decimation is this new udp-like protocol acceptable? [12:26]
mircea_popescu yes, im sure the idiots "writing software" and "deploying apps" will soon write more crud and deploy more crap [12:26]
mircea_popescu at which point we'll re-have this conversation. [12:26]
mircea_popescu decimation for as long as no one uses it. [12:26]
asciilifeform realize that there can be no useful gossipd except with something like what is described above (i.e. udp but with protocol != 17) [12:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there can trivially be gossipd-over-blockchain. [12:27]
mircea_popescu it'd bette rbe transport protocol agnostic. [12:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what's on the cable ? [12:28]
mircea_popescu dragons. [12:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if it's tcp, you are serving jam to folks for showing up [12:28]
asciilifeform because connection is stateful [12:28]
asciilifeform ergo - lose. [12:28]
decimation at any rate, the problem isn't udp or tcp, it's the fact that ip packets route without any signature [12:28]
asciilifeform no matter how many kilometres long your cock is, and how many cable spools it takes to hold it [12:28]
mircea_popescu decimation except he didn't like the fact yu gotta say where you're sending stuff "because usg snoops it" [12:28]
mircea_popescu i never comprehended the "anonimity" securityt posture, but whatever. [12:29]
asciilifeform i don't like the fact that i gotta say it in cleartext ! [12:29]
asciilifeform not 'at all' [12:29]
mircea_popescu and how's third party gonna reads your codetext. [12:29]
asciilifeform third party gets to cry in the corner [12:29]
mircea_popescu so how does router know if to route ? [12:29]
asciilifeform router knows that it is routing a packet [12:29]
asciilifeform but not that said packet is part of a stream [12:30]
mircea_popescu to where ? [12:30]
asciilifeform (or what stream) [12:30]
mircea_popescu routing it to where! [12:30]
asciilifeform to destination. [12:30]
mircea_popescu no, because it can't check. [12:30]
asciilifeform yes, you need dest ip [12:30]
mircea_popescu ... [12:30]
decimation ^ need not be actual dest ip [12:30]
mircea_popescu sigh [12:30]
asciilifeform the part i'm objecting to is the sequence # thing [12:30]
decimation in fact, node could not have an actual ip at all [12:30]
asciilifeform and the multi-step connection opening [12:30]
mircea_popescu i get it, you want a woman that's transparent and doesn't bleed. [12:30]
asciilifeform i ~have one~ [12:30]
mircea_popescu "onmly way to have gossipd" [12:30]
asciilifeform her name is udp with rsa payload. [12:31]
asciilifeform with procol # != 17 because mircea_popescu hates 17 [12:31]
mircea_popescu mkay. i wouldn't be too worried about her fate - it'd cost usg more than it'd cost me to ditch udp. [12:31]
asciilifeform (my isp won't like != 17 either. i will have to send these packets to mircea_popescu by camel.) [12:31]
mircea_popescu you can send them via dpaste for all the difference it makes. [12:32]
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* mircea_popescu wonders if he's the only one that remembers the major spammer-ddos wars of a few years ago. [12:34]
jurov were they reolved by banning a protocol? [12:35]
mircea_popescu essentially, yes. [12:35]
mircea_popescu it's where all this "ban udp" talk actually started. [12:36]
mircea_popescu but yes, it was practically shown that a) no actual protection from ddos exists, outside of the ostrich method discussed above and b) udp is the key to this state of affairs. [12:36]
decimation umm, 'access-list deny udp any any' on your subnet? [12:37]
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mircea_popescu https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/03/28/massive-ddos-attack-against-anti-spam-provider-impacts-millions-of-internet-users/ [12:38]
mircea_popescu reference. [12:38]
assbot Massive DDoS attack against anti-spam provider impacts millions of internet users | Naked Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ib3UtB ) [12:38]
mircea_popescu for they reading the logs not in the cabal. [12:38]
asciilifeform i'm still waiting, incidentally, for mircea_popescu to tell me how to set the pogo clock without ntp [12:40]
asciilifeform that would be a major scientific advance [12:40]
mircea_popescu no. [12:40]
mircea_popescu i don't solve problems. i just throw away other people's solutions. [12:40]
mircea_popescu much like i don't make kids, the women make kids. i just kill some of the kids they make. [12:41]
asciilifeform i get it, this is most fun sport in the world [12:41]
asciilifeform until you drown in unsolved. [12:41]
mircea_popescu myeah. [12:41]
asciilifeform i'd love nothing more than for martians to fly over and shoot with disintegrator beam every single x86 box [12:41]
asciilifeform and every single arm cpu [12:41]
mircea_popescu let's start with something small. [12:42]
asciilifeform this is, if anything, even more batshit than what mircea_popescu asked for [12:42]
mircea_popescu like fucking udp. [12:42]
asciilifeform after which we get to write gossipd with tcp syn instead of udp [12:42]
mircea_popescu or dpaste. [12:42]
asciilifeform dpaste over pigeon ? [12:42]
asciilifeform srsly the pipe has to go through your wall [12:43]
asciilifeform same as mine [12:43]
mircea_popescu dpaste over alles! [12:43]
* asciilifeform bbl [12:44]
mircea_popescu OK, thanks Chester for the clear explanation. [12:45]
mircea_popescu Now, how can I verify my Windows 2008 domain server (with Sophos EndPoint Security) is configured correctly? [12:45]
mircea_popescu fucking hell. [12:45]
mircea_popescu ~WITH SOPHOS END POINT SECURITY~ dontcha know. [12:45]
mircea_popescu why are these things on the internet ? i do not wish anything to do with any of them. [12:45]
mircea_popescu brandheads. [12:46]
jurov they don't want anything to do either. [12:46]
jurov they want just buy and click [12:46]
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mircea_popescu right. [12:50]
mircea_popescu anyway, the only way to solve this problem is of course ppp, ie pay per packet. and the only way to even run an internet at all is as a blockchain, which is to say mempool and all that. [12:50]
mircea_popescu but this may take a while. [12:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00053864 = 15.6475 BTC [-] [12:53]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work. [12:54]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 03:59:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217395 << if i have to ship a bootable linux iso, buildrooted for the purpose of building a) self b) bitcoin - i will. in fact, yes, i have this up my sleeve, BUT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO USE IT instead of retarduntu etc [12:54]
trinque the rotor problem mod6 and I ran into was simple as can be [12:55]
trinque just one of those "right knob" things [12:55]
mircea_popescu ^ top thing i hate about linux. [12:56]
trinque seems like db's config script had environment data leaking into it from the underlying host [12:56]
trinque mircea_popescu: yup [12:56]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217553 << word. [12:57]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 04:13:58; mod6: rotolinux sounds awesome btw. [12:57]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217570 << fun fact : the ennumeration of all people ~alive today~ would far exceed 9gb. degree of magnitude +. [12:58]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 04:16:03; asciilifeform: there ARE NOT 9 GB of useful src [12:58]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, in the entire history of human thought there have not been produced 9, or for that matter 1 gb worth recording. [12:58]
mircea_popescu this includes all software. [12:58]
mircea_popescu if anyone wishes to compare crap and oranges... [12:58]
mircea_popescu there's way too many people for the salt they pay. [12:58]
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phf using linux kernel as the base allows for rapid repurposing of cheap chinese computers, without having to write drive controllers or general kernel hackery. in case of suckless it was probably more to do with audiocards and inertia. at the time when the suckless project started, it wasn't yet obvious how compromised kernel will eventually become, the reaction was mostly to userspace retardation [13:00]
mircea_popescu phf how long have you spent reading the logs ? [13:00]
phf mircea_popescu: 2014-03-27 [13:01]
mircea_popescu dude check it out, the year gets experimental verification. [13:01]
mircea_popescu ;;rated phf [13:01]
gribble You have not yet rated user phf [13:01]
mircea_popescu !rate phf 1 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within. [13:02]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/33b3a0ee64f2338d [13:02]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.1:039ae78c7128555ebad588f79c7dc7edd0087e763c49d7b6a7dd0165e1fbbc08 [13:02]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within. [13:02]
phf moving on... down? :) [13:02]
mircea_popescu down ? [13:03]
kakobrekla you are mixing the two wots [13:03]
kakobrekla You have not yet rated user phf < notice gribble [13:03]
mircea_popescu i'm so confused [13:04]
mircea_popescu ohhhh [13:04]
kakobrekla assbot> Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 < assbot [13:04]
mircea_popescu fuck. sorry. [13:04]
mircea_popescu !rate phf 2 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within. [13:04]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c3c7740eb1f5933 [13:04]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.2:6cea324aa2207bd1d76e587be3036b547021756929f56d01002638c3c027b975 [13:05]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for phf from 1 to 2 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within. [13:05]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217700 << o.O you hawk you! [13:10]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 11:39:38; BingoBoingo: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it [13:10]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217706 << wait, what ? [13:10]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 12:13:43; jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity [13:10]
danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is [13:11]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 12:19:55; shinohai: It's interesting to think about. I just like the summary of Christianity - which, because I live in that "One Nation under GAWD" I get rather sick of hearing the masses go on about. [13:11]
mod6 ;;later tell hanbot check msg [13:15]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00053864 = 6.8407 BTC [-] [13:18]
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mircea_popescu !up Michail [13:22]
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jurov lol don't act surprised http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-07-26.log.html#t10:06:45 [13:29]
assbot #Eulora log for Sunday, 2015-07-26 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IugffV ) [13:29]
jurov mp: "kids must be culled properly" me: "i'd be culled easily" mp:"then these thought you were retarded should have been culled" [13:30]
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jurov how this does not depend on hidsight... [13:34]
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jurov http://imgur.com/pR356Rc woooo [13:36]
assbot Is Windows 10 a botnet? Summary of things that spy on you in W10. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuhbRx ) [13:36]
trinque if it's free, you're the product!! [13:37]
trinque jurov: as for the culling, wouldn't that be up to the parents that clearly decided to let you live? heh [13:37]
trinque and if they don't have the luxury of making that decision, *shrug* [13:38]
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trinque absent a giant safety net, life itself will do the culling [13:39]
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trinque !up ascii_field [13:40]
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trinque !up elgrecoFL [13:40]
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ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218261 << depends, what means 'work' ? [13:44]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 15:50:59; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work. [13:44]
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ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218311 << on one hand, jurov has it. on other, answer to 'flood of meat' is better selection criteria, rather than 'every sperm is precious' (tm) (r) [13:48]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 16:31:35; jurov: how this does not depend on hidsight... [13:48]
ascii_field on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so [13:49]
* danielpbarron too [13:51]
jurov lol [13:51]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107152 @ 0.00054404 = 58.295 BTC [+] [13:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00053864 = 10.6381 BTC [-] [14:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.00053019 = 74.0675 BTC [-] {4} [14:55]
funkenstein_ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218023 <-- despite Shannon's complete description of communication in propagation, it seems the details of protocols, sources/sinks of information in various forms, are still totally open [14:58]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 14:36:04; asciilifeform: they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in. [14:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00052081 = 54.8153 BTC [-] {4} [15:15]
jurov funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog [15:17]
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trinque ascii_field | on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so << plenty of intelligent people had all kinds of health problems; surely there are reasons other than "fit as a viking" to live [15:22]
trinque as for myself, I was more dead than alive when I plopped into this world, so this is all bonus time [15:22]
funkenstein_ jurov, at some layer, they must be analog right? [15:22]
jurov ofc but it's not accessible to you [15:22]
funkenstein_ i'm about to buy a SDR ham radio kit [15:23]
funkenstein_ thinking to go with bladeRF [15:24]
jurov will it enable yo to make analog channel to arbitrary ip adddress? i'm all ears :D [15:24]
funkenstein_ we need full stack IP over aether [15:24]
jurov you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon [15:25]
funkenstein_ end to end encrypt by default [15:25]
funkenstein_ lol [15:25]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [15:25]
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funkenstein_ i don't think DDOS is going away [15:25]
ascii_field trinque: i wasn't even speaking of health per se [15:27]
ascii_field just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu [15:27]
ascii_field funkenstein_ et al: the basic quandry is that communication channels are scarce and very crowded. [15:29]
kakobrekla because of the 80 vhs tapes? [15:29]
funkenstein_ cocktail party [15:29]
trinque ascii_field: well shit, how many do? [15:29]
ascii_field the only solutions fall into the broad categories of 'moar channel' or 'less meat' [15:29]
ascii_field like any other famine. [15:29]
funkenstein_ specific-to-source orthogonal waveforms [15:29]
ascii_field crack a textbook [15:30]
funkenstein_ well lately it's been going along the lines of you name them and I order them [15:30]
ascii_field r. feynman., 'lectures on physics', vol. 1-3. [15:31]
ascii_field or if you're a l333337 d00d, landau & lifschitz vol. 1-5 [15:32]
ascii_field through 8 rather. [15:32]
funkenstein_ no we're talking, i would say best texts ever [15:32]
funkenstein_ though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail [15:32]
funkenstein_ anyway it appears we all share that kind of background [15:32]
funkenstein_ but I am curious the specifics [15:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26600 @ 0.0005381 = 14.3135 BTC [+] [15:34]
funkenstein_ enjoyed recent thread: GSM et al. [15:34]
funkenstein_ i should probably go read IEEE 802 specs [15:34]
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ascii_field the subject of why every bag of meat on this sorry rock can't have own radio station, to any useful degree, 'will not fit in the margins of this page' unfortunately. [15:34]
funkenstein_ plenty of aether to go around, i think we just don't know how to use it yet [15:34]
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funkenstein_ http://www.brainfacts.org/Sensing-Thinking-Behaving/Awareness-and-Attention/Articles/2013/The-Cocktail-Party-Problem [15:42]
shinohai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218302 <<< I'll make an exception in your case danielpbarron, because not once have you told me "shinohai, you gonna FRY!" [15:43]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 16:08:35; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is [15:43]
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funkenstein_ the masses do not know what mass is [15:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61300 @ 0.00051262 = 31.4236 BTC [-] {3} [15:48]
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trinque shinohai: hail satan! [15:52]
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trinque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzjshF0TFm8 << some music to corrupt your soul [15:55]
assbot AT THE GATES - Death And The Labyrinth (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DSXhdx ) [15:55]
kakobrekla i can hardly understand what the guy is trying to sing to me. [15:56]
trinque something something killing people in a labyrinth, evil is basically a weird art project, something something [16:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60482 @ 0.0005381 = 32.5454 BTC [+] {2} [16:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00053849 = 17.7971 BTC [+] [16:10]
shinohai trinque: I do regularly mumble prayers in public to Satan, when fundamentalists ruin my meal by trying to pray loudly over their food for 30 minutes. [16:13]
trinque shinohai: raised religious? [16:13]
trinque I suspect that's why the satan schtick amuses me so [16:13]
shinohai Yes, a cult [16:13]
trinque that'll do it! [16:13]
mircea_popescu jurov just because you posit there's going to be retrospection needed doesn't mean it's either necessarily so or what i said, you know. [16:14]
trinque shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w37V5IOfQlI << another good one in that vein [16:15]
assbot Mors principium est-bringer of light - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT162q ) [16:15]
mircea_popescu * danielpbarron too << maybe solution then is ask 7 yo kid if they should be killed and do the opposite. [16:15]
shinohai Considering they believe the world is going to end and there is no need for any sort of secular education, it is a wonder I can read at all. [16:15]
mircea_popescu what do the fuckwits know. [16:15]
mircea_popescu you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon << all stacks must wear burka! [16:16]
shinohai And I love Mors Principum Est, I'm OG and like Slayer tho [16:17]
mircea_popescu ascii_field just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu << you think anyone actually wants more of me around ? [16:17]
mircea_popescu "ajunge un bat la un car de oale." [16:17]
mircea_popescu shinohai what's og. [16:18]
trinque shinohai: old metal does me just fine too, gotta know the greats [16:18]
shinohai Original Gangsta [16:18]
mircea_popescu though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail << o.O so then what have you done ? [16:18]
shinohai But, yeah. I dunno how many copies of Led Zeppelin albums my parents burned when I was a kid. [16:19]
jurov https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11760247_10153571490573982_7194971534506656776_n.jpg?oh=53007a0adf39e0cd1a8d16035dc19388&oe=563C0E16 << pic related [16:19]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuGtij ) [16:19]
trinque shinohai: heh! I got busted for tom petty once, of all things. told my mom "you could stand me up at the gates of hell, but I wont back down" [16:20]
mircea_popescu lol [16:20]
funkenstein_ mircea_popescu, good question. i spent a lot of time with the fluid mechanics volume back in the day. [16:20]
mircea_popescu poor woman. [16:20]
shinohai Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum [16:20]
shinohai or The Name of The Rose [16:20]
mircea_popescu whahaha [16:20]
mircea_popescu poor kid. [16:20]
shinohai Tom Petty? Jesus F'in Christ [16:20]
trinque hilarity of it is I think the guy's a born again himself [16:21]
mircea_popescu so did you give them madonna's "sex" for their 15th aniversary ? [16:21]
trinque haha, I don't torture the poor folks anymore, keep my heathen ways to myself [16:22]
trinque they at least knew the whole world was filled with shit, just weren't sure what kind [16:22]
mircea_popescu this is a point. [16:22]
shinohai I moved away and never looked back. Haven't spoken to anyone in my family in almost 20 years. [16:22]
trinque I have a great relationship with them; they spend all day trying to not suck, and good for them [16:23]
trinque they just missed [16:23]
mircea_popescu interesting. i see both angles. [16:23]
shinohai I imagine mine are still sitting around waiting for the world to end, and trying to force-feed as much of that nonsense to others as possible. [16:24]
mircea_popescu in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/8fbe0005e45f6bc64efc4ca034b46249/tumblr_n0jownfewq1si2s09o1_1280.jpg [16:26]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT2OAE ) [16:26]
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shinohai The scan checks out mircea_popescu [16:27]
mircea_popescu hm? [16:27]
shinohai The barcode above the woman's vag [16:27]
mircea_popescu oh. lol. [16:28]
mircea_popescu shinohai you gonna FRAY! [16:28]
shinohai Just call me crispy then. [16:28]
mircea_popescu (btw, the vagina is the internal part. that's a vulva) [16:29]
shinohai Well if the vag is internal, and the barcode is on top of that, technically it *is* above. [16:30]
mircea_popescu i guess so huh [16:30]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [16:30]
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shinohai 102 F ... damn it's hot. Time to blend up some margaritas or something. [16:32]
shinohai May as well drink before Kim eliminates me: http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/30-07-2015/131527-kim-0/ [16:35]
mircea_popescu Kim said the contest was intended to "bring about a radical turn in the drills to round off preparations for a war full of the will to settle with arms accounts with the U.S. imperialists, the chieftain of aggression, and the South Korean puppet group keen to escalate the confrontation with the fellow countrymen and that of social systems, seized with sycophancy toward the U.S.," [16:37]
mircea_popescu such a bizarre phrase structure they use by now [16:37]
ascii_field pravda ought to fire their translator [16:37]
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mircea_popescu "Gone forever is the era when the United States blackmailed us with nukes; now the United States is no longer a source of threat and fear for us and we are the very source of fear for it." [16:38]
ascii_field 'Напомним, Правда. Ру вчера сообщала о выступлении посла Северной Кореи в РФ Ким Хен Чжуна, который заявил, что его страна не намерена следовать примеру Ирана и идти на переговоры с Западом на предмет сокращения своей ядерной програм [16:38]
ascii_field мы. Вместо этого, Пхеньян активно готовится к ядерному противостоянию, так как страна подвергается давлению с целью переворота в стране, так как США участили свои учения с вооруженными силами Южной Кореи.' [16:38]
mircea_popescu is it a bad thing that i find him more amusing than the run of the mill usg "comedian" ? [16:38]
mircea_popescu what's general snipes say [16:38]
mircea_popescu (of nato) [16:38]
shinohai Between him and the Iranian female ninjas, I am starting to quake in my shoes. [16:39]
mircea_popescu ascii_field original reads a lot better. [16:40]
mircea_popescu anyway, obviously unlike iran they won't cut a deal. [16:40]
ascii_field roughly: 'let us remind, yesterday, pravda.ru yesterday described the speech of the ambassador of north kr, kim hen jeon, who pronounced that his country will not follow the example of iran and go into talks with the west re: nuclear disarmament. instead, pyongyang will actively prepare for a nuclear tension, given the fact that usa is increasing its involvement with training of the south kr army.' [16:41]
mircea_popescu unlike iran, nobody is offering them one. [16:41]
ascii_field why offer what will not be taken. [16:41]
mircea_popescu ascii_field "standoff", neh ? [16:41]
ascii_field aha [16:41]
mircea_popescu oh, they'd take. [16:41]
mircea_popescu offer them what iran got, what cuba got, they'll take it. [16:41]
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ascii_field anyway this is poppycock, north kr is controlled with rice, not nukes [16:41]
ascii_field (from the west) [16:41]
trinque strikes me as nothing more than internal politics [16:43]
trinque the language is always "prepared" to fight [16:43]
trinque https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW2xyXl2tTI [16:44]
assbot Preparing... - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuK2VU ) [16:44]
ascii_field trinque: virtually everything printed in english re: north kr is a bold-faced lie out of the mouth of south kr [16:45]
trinque probably so [16:46]
trinque http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/its-official-china-south-korea-sign-free-trade-agreement/ << does not appear that china gives half a shit what nk wants [16:46]
assbot It’s Official: China, South Korea Sign Free Trade Agreement | The Diplomat ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuKjYM ) [16:46]
trinque and that's probably the opinion that matters most [16:46]
ascii_field how many people know, for instance, that south started the kr war ? [16:47]
mircea_popescu erryone ? [16:47]
mircea_popescu btw, re notable italians : http://trilema.com/2011/italo-calvino/ [16:47]
assbot Italo Calvino on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT6uCz ) [16:47]
ascii_field or that north was an industrial giant, heavy on the machinery market, until blockaded by usa and its muppets ? [16:47]
ascii_field but yes, they are in 'hitler's bunker' mode [16:48]
mircea_popescu ascii_field and italy was an empire and spain was an empire and what else. [16:48]
ascii_field hence the stories being ~believable~ [16:48]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: except that italy and spain did not get history-edited [16:49]
mircea_popescu orly. [16:49]
ascii_field aha, even f-students know that they were once empires. [16:49]
mircea_popescu ask any muppet today, he thinks europe is christian and christian values fundamentally european. [16:49]
mircea_popescu hollow word. [16:49]
mircea_popescu they do not know what that meant. [16:49]
mircea_popescu might as well say "any kid today knows nkr is <>". [16:50]
mircea_popescu big whop [16:50]
ascii_field mircea_popescu ought to contact his supplier and have a stern talk re: getting a higher grade of muppet shipped in [16:50]
mircea_popescu wouldn't that be a shittier muppet ? [16:50]
ascii_field not necessarily [16:51]
shinohai Same in America, blabbering about how this nation was specifically founded on Christian principles, without ever bothering to read the treaty of Tripoli. [16:51]
mircea_popescu shinohai ironically, the us was founded on sectarian neoprotestantism alright. [16:52]
mircea_popescu amusingly, so was england, at about the same time. diff flavour. [16:52]
shinohai I honestly have no issues with those that do choose to practice religion, just respect the fact that some don't. [16:53]
trinque I prefer most do have some form of mind control installed. [16:53]
trinque look what happens otherwise? [16:53]
mircea_popescu well... honestly, if one takes the stand that mcd is not really food, that same one'd be hard pressed to count neoprotestant lols as religion. [16:54]
trinque ;;later tell pete_dushenski let me go ahead and eat my words re: desert gods now [16:54]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:54]
ascii_field 'i prefer that the planet exert a gravitational pull. look what happens otherwise' [16:54]
ascii_field look where ? [16:54]
* shinohai gift wraps a copy of LeVay's Satanic Bible, sends it to trinque [16:54]
trinque heh I've read some of that stuff [16:55]
trinque it's like Ayn Rand with candles [16:55]
shinohai LOL [16:55]
mircea_popescu bwahaha [16:55]
* tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [17:00]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:01]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [17:03]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:03]
ascii_field http://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=www:download:start << 300 M !!! i withdraw my recommendation of 'minix' [17:04]
assbot www:download:start [Wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9EpT ) [17:04]
ascii_field it was coopted. [17:04]
ascii_field and authors find it necessary to lie, e.g., [17:05]
ascii_field 'In monolithic operating systems, a driver can write to any word of memory and thus accidentally trash user programs. In MINIX 3, when a user expects data from, for example, the file system, it builds a descriptor telling who has access and at what addresses. It then passes an index to this descriptor to the file system, which may pass it to a driver. The file system or driver then asks the kernel to write via the [17:05]
ascii_field descriptor, making it impossible for them to write to addresses outside the buffer.' [17:05]
ascii_field ^ trivially disproved [17:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054279 = 18.0749 BTC [+] [17:05]
ascii_field i can ask, e.g., a nic, to read or write arbitrary word in ram [17:05]
ascii_field (if i can access the nic at all from the machine end) [17:05]
shinohai "We just launched and are all excited, but one caveat. Transactions don't work." [17:06]
shinohai https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3f6f1r/reminder_the_block_gas_limit_is_currently_5000_so/ [17:06]
assbot REMINDER: the block gas limit is currently 5000, so it is not possible to send transactions. We will release an update in a couple days to cause miners to "vote" the gas limit upwards at which point the full blockchain functionality will be de-facto enabled. : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9ZJ5 ) [17:06]
* tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:07]
shinohai Gas limit indeed. Whole project is hot gas. [17:08]
mircea_popescu amusingly enough, nobody yet bought the shorts [17:09]
mircea_popescu what was it, a year ? 16 months ? [17:09]
ascii_field nobody needed to [17:09]
Michail1 midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius mixdio [17:09]
mircea_popescu !s from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin [17:09]
assbot 5 results for 'from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+ethereum+bitcoin [17:09]
ascii_field buterin & co just got $2M from usg. [17:09]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-07-2014#764480 [17:10]
assbot Logged on 22-07-2014 22:53:40; mircea_popescu: ;;sell 5000 "ethereum coins deliverable March 15th, 2014" for 1 BTC. [17:10]
mircea_popescu lolz. [17:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70769 @ 0.00053752 = 38.0398 BTC [-] {3} [17:13]
* Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus) [17:14]
shinohai How did they manage to get $2 mil in funding ? [17:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56550 @ 0.00053753 = 30.3973 BTC [+] {2} [17:14]
ascii_field shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2015#1214392 [17:14]
assbot Logged on 27-07-2015 23:27:09; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^ https://archive.is/2ZiCQ [17:14]
kakobrekla katz did it too. [17:14]
kakobrekla oh this is about the same thing. [17:15]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [17:15]
kakobrekla it doesnt mention butterin [17:15]
assbot The future of Bitcoin regulation on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuOLXs ) [17:15]
ascii_field kakobrekla: see mircea_popescu's post re: elaine shi & co. [17:15]
kakobrekla yeah i better shutup as im always behind. [17:15]
shinohai I think I'll sign up for that. My innovative new currency is "mined" by wiping 1 square of tissue across my ballsack for 30 seconds. [17:16]
ascii_field kakobrekla: she and her fuckbuddy oversee a university lab where slave labour (grad students) work (or pretend to) on 'ethereum' [17:16]
kakobrekla nice [17:16]
mircea_popescu lawl. actually hanbot & shinohai the stuff's quite well related. sv knows how to do one thing, the whole "make a market out of a trillion shitheads and sell them sheep olives for quarter pennies". and usg lives in this delusional alt-reality where it is enough for it to say, and things happen. [17:16]
mircea_popescu both these got a little crashed, and yes i'm going to bleed the living life out of the entire set of derp shartups, and yes it can say until it falls over. [17:16]
mircea_popescu but hey. until that day, every wooden cutout's a soldier. [17:17]
shinohai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army [17:17]
assbot Terracotta Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DTbWoT ) [17:17]
mircea_popescu ascii_field you will notice, if inclined to notice, the distress manifest in the reduction of funding. [17:18]
ascii_field reduction ?! [17:18]
mircea_popescu yes. [17:18]
mircea_popescu coinbase can live on no 2 million. [17:19]
mircea_popescu last year it was, "tens of millions". merely not jumping to hundred this year = fail [17:19]
ascii_field coinbase no, 2 uni profs - sure [17:19]
mircea_popescu but in fact it withered to a coupla, and doled out through the university program. [17:19]
ascii_field that 2m is ~just~ for that particular sc4ml4b [17:19]
mircea_popescu 2 uni profs aren't a threat to the fucking mice in their own lab. [17:19]
mircea_popescu it's scaling down, and painfully so. [17:20]
mircea_popescu the 2016 usg line re bitcoin will be that "never happened, not important, uninteresting" [17:20]
ascii_field wake me up when they can't afford to mine spamblox any moar. [17:20]
mircea_popescu much like the olympics they can't aford. [17:20]
mircea_popescu "it has problems, can't deliver on customer expectations, etc". you see the seeds in the amazon recent lol/ [17:21]
mircea_popescu "bitcoin has problems that our system sucks" [17:21]
ascii_field yes, there is a ministry of usg that occupies itself with finding nails for the microscope to pound in, badly [17:22]
ascii_field but it is not the only ministry [17:22]
mircea_popescu the sv ministry got raped a little. [17:23]
mircea_popescu the agitprop ministry got raped a little. [17:23]
mircea_popescu there's really not that many. [17:23]
mircea_popescu anyway, be that as it may, i [17:23]
mircea_popescu 've never had this much fun in my life! [17:23]
ascii_field on a not entirely unrelated note, incitatus has been steadily ~100 blocks behind [17:24]
ascii_field for the last week or so, after (briefly) fully synced [17:24]
ascii_field the ministry of dropped packets is doing well. [17:25]
trinque which reminds me, my rotor instance chewed up its db when a drive's usb cable disconnected [17:25]
trinque and berkdb claims its a db? [17:25]
ascii_field trinque: this is not specific to rotor !! [17:25]
trinque course not [17:25]
trinque I know that [17:25]
trinque I'm going to restart it from the beginning [17:26]
ascii_field trinque: and go, unplug the disk of, e.g., a postgres [17:26]
trinque but it's a place for obvious improvement [17:26]
ascii_field you'll be surprised. [17:26]
trinque ascii_field: would not do this [17:26]
trinque write ahead log is for that [17:26]
ascii_field again, you'll be surprised. [17:26]
trinque as always, it depends [17:26]
trinque but I bet postgresql would win on balance [17:26]
trinque it's not an unsolvable problem to just hack off the frayed bit and begin again from there [17:27]
ascii_field trinque: you speak as if this thing didn't eat enough ram and weren't slow enough [17:27]
ascii_field now we also need a tcp crud pipe for every access to the blockchain ????!! [17:27]
trinque atomicity of writes would be nice. [17:28]
trinque how, a fine thing to think about [17:28]
ascii_field easy [17:28]
ascii_field keep all blocks in antifuse rom [17:29]
ascii_field n+1 bits per block, with the last one signifying 'finalized' [17:29]
ascii_field blow the last bit when 0...n represent valid block. [17:29]
trinque there, that's an awesome idea. [17:30]
* tcrypt (~tylersmit@173.247.206.110) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:30]
ascii_field now go buy a silicon fab so that antifuse rom gets produced again. [17:31]
ascii_field it is - afaik - EXTINCT today [17:31]
* trinque turns the death metal on again, fitting as it is [17:31]
ascii_field the 'otp' chips sold currently are a FRAUD - eeproms with black epoxy instead of window !! [17:31]
ascii_field *eproms [17:31]
phf well block*.dat are essentially append only, the idea can be emulated by having transaction bits. you write a t bit, you write rest of block, when done flip t bit. on restart you walk backwards until the first flipped bit and you file truncate anything from that point on [17:33]
ascii_field nothing on a pc is 'append only' ! [17:33]
ascii_field with possible exception of 'cd-r' [17:33]
trinque what he describes is effectively a wal log, what's wrong with it? [17:33]
trinque bleh, *wal, I mean [17:33]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [17:34]
trinque !up ascii_field [17:34]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [17:34]
ascii_field !s protocol vs promise [17:34]
assbot 2 results for 'protocol vs promise' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=protocol+vs+promise [17:34]
ascii_field there is an important difference between 'x will not happen because i promise not to stick it in that hole, really' and 'x cannot happen because physics' [17:34]
ascii_field and yes, people have occasionally been mistaken about physics [17:35]
trinque fair point, yet that means no atomicity til bitcoin has its very own hardware arch [17:35]
trinque maybe that's called for here [17:35]
ascii_field but in virtually every case known, it was really a case of 'i won't go in that hole, promise' [17:35]
ascii_field trinque: i was pointing out that you need a relatively minor (from r&d standpoint) device, that was ~once available~ and isn't today. [17:36]
ascii_field pertinent story: [17:36]
ascii_field i was once a sysadmin, for a spell [17:37]
ascii_field and we have a then-popular tape robot [17:37]
ascii_field the docs mentioned that one could buy 'write-once tapes', for usg regulatory compliance [17:37]
ascii_field this piqued my curiosity and i inquired to the vendor, how, precisely, does one make a write-once magnetic tape ?!! [17:37]
ascii_field was told that it is ordinary tape. but with a magic hole in the cartridge - like old floppy disk [17:38]
ascii_field that the drive would obey. [17:38]
ascii_field nearly fell down laughing [17:38]
ascii_field a fifty-cent magnet will 'rewrite' happily, these magical 'write once' tapes. [17:38]
shinohai "magic hole"?! [17:38]
ascii_field as will the tape deck and a piece of 'scotch' [17:38]
ascii_field shinohai: yes, like 3 inch 'floppy' [17:39]
ascii_field anyway, this is 'promise' [17:39]
ascii_field 'protocol' is when you can't rewrite because you can't unburn a hole. [17:39]
ascii_field (though still have to be careful because enemy can make holes in any place where you had not) [17:39]
trinque amazing how bitcoin drastically increases the requirements on rigor and correctness [17:41]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [17:41]
trinque ty assbot [17:41]
ascii_field trinque: in precisely the same way that abdominal surgery increases required standard of hygiene [17:41]
phf pray mr babbage [17:41]
kakobrekla maybe that's called for here < actually its called for in many other places, you still dont get it. [17:41]
ascii_field ^^^ [17:42]
trinque I get it just fine. [17:42]
kakobrekla where? [17:42]
kakobrekla get the hardware i meant. [17:42]
trinque chewing up a database on disk is a fine way to run afoul of the "I do not have the correct blockchain problem" the whole piece of software by its very purpose tries to avoid. [17:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00054108 = 28.542 BTC [+] [17:43]
trinque and while you're fabbing hardware, might want to keep the integrity of the thing in the meantime [17:43]
trinque kakobrekla: ah I got ya [17:43]
trinque but then to continue in that vein, I do see how trying endless mitigations is a death by a thousand cuts. [17:44]
ascii_field none of this is hard to make. [17:44]
ascii_field in the sense that 'cold fusion' or elixir of immortality is [17:44]
trinque sure, just needs a business case that works like anything [17:45]
ascii_field we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium [17:45]
* peterl (602a8b2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.42.139.42) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:46]
trinque ascii_field: tactically speaking, supposing there just isn't time for antifuse rom? [17:48]
ascii_field ?? [17:48]
trinque or [17:48]
ascii_field what means, 'isn't time' [17:48]
trinque or are we already in a position where things like the blocksize limit debate are moot [17:49]
trinque I took that to be one of the reasons to take over development of bitcoind [17:49]
ascii_field the reason to remove machine gun from the hands of a demented anal child is not necessarily that you need the thing for anything. [17:50]
ascii_field trinque: i'll repeat the question - what is the meaning of 'isn't time' here ? [17:51]
trinque #up peterl [17:52]
trinque !up peterl [17:52]
* assbot gives voice to peterl [17:52]
peterl thanks, trinque [17:52]
trinque yw [17:52]
peterl btw, I alrways read your name like it rhymes with drink, is this right? [17:52]
trinque that's how I say it, yep [17:53]
trinque ascii_field: supposing the network goes the way of the gavins [17:53]
trinque but in that case I suppose "let em fork" ? [17:53]
ascii_field there is no 'the network' [17:53]
trinque better to get bitcoind right? [17:53]
ascii_field there is the gavins, and there is the actual people. [17:53]
ascii_field it's that simple. [17:53]
* shinohai is glas he discovered therealbitcoin [17:54]
shinohai *glad [17:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47586 @ 0.00054108 = 25.7478 BTC [+] [17:54]
* pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:54]
trinque I've taken the size of the network as one of the things ensuring its continued existence. [17:54]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [17:55]
ascii_field trinque: how ? [17:55]
peterl so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*. [17:55]
trinque ascii_field: the hashing power monopoly scenario; say it forks and there's nearly no hashing power on the side of therealbitcoind [17:55]
ascii_field trinque: then we switch workfunctions [17:56]
ascii_field trinque: say, the cellular automata apparatus i described last year [17:56]
* trinque goes to find the thread [17:56]
ascii_field understand, the thing can work while being used only by mircea_popescu and five other similar fellas to 'hawala' at each other. [17:56]
pete_dushenski ;;seen BingoBoingo [17:57]
gribble BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 14 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it [17:57]
peterl does it matter how much hashing pwer they have if it is pointed at the other side of a fork? [17:57]
pete_dushenski peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ is no more ? [17:57]
pete_dushenski wtf qntra. stop snarfing my shit. why you no like my cecil comment ? [17:58]
peterl hmm, yeah, I havn't had time to keep up with that, did you use it? I suppose I could resurect it? [17:58]
pete_dushenski i used it now and again [17:58]
pete_dushenski https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land [18:00]
assbot Bittrex.com - ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPBx95 ) [18:00]
shinohai heh buttrex [18:02]
pete_dushenski eth up a solid 20x over ipo price for those (like saifedean) who threw a couple bucks at it and are ready to cash the fuck out. [18:02]
ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218673 << anybody interesting ? [18:02]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*. [18:02]
peterl no, just some derpy schmoe. I thought about sending funny emails to all his friends, but didn't. [18:03]
pete_dushenski !s desert god [18:03]
assbot 1 results for 'desert god' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=desert+god [18:03]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:04]
pete_dushenski trinque refresh my memory perhaps ? [18:04]
shinohai !up ascii_field [18:04]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:04]
trinque pete_dushenski: it was in reference to the ISIS convo [18:05]
shinohai Be evil peterl and send emails to ISIS recruiters. [18:05]
kakobrekla a whole 8 buttcoin volume on that thin, is that all they got? [18:05]
pete_dushenski trinque silly me. of course. [18:06]
trinque above I spoke about being fond of my folks having the drive to "not suck" [18:06]
peterl I should have emailed the ISIS and cc'ed NSA? [18:06]
trinque regardless of it being derived from said desert god [18:06]
shinohai xD [18:06]
trinque [18:06]
* trinque nearly drops his laptop... [18:06]
pete_dushenski kakobrekla that's buttrex trading engine at 9,000 rpm for ya. [18:07]
pete_dushenski makes bitstamp look like the chinese olympic games [18:07]
* chetty (~chet@unaffiliated/chetty) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:08]
trinque until later gents [18:08]
* scoopbot_revived has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [18:08]
* ascii_field has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [18:08]
* TomServo has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [18:08]
pete_dushenski trinque they do seem to have their place and their purpose. [18:08]
pete_dushenski cheers. [18:08]
* ascii_field (~ascii_fie@66-162-3-25.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:08]
pete_dushenski peterl shoulda logged into your sr account [18:09]
peterl first I would have to make one [18:09]
phf ascii_field: is your argument then, on a higher level, if abstraction leaks it should not be introduced? [18:11]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [18:11]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:11]
ascii_field phf: no. if it leaks, should find the author and boil him in oil. [18:11]
ascii_field it is very helpful, and should be introduced, so that we know whom to boil in oil. [18:12]
ascii_field it is entirely possible to make abstractions which do not, in any meaningful sense, leak. [18:13]
ascii_field e.g., hardly anyone knows - or needs to know - what chemical process precisely it was that produced his cpu. [18:13]
ascii_field http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 << see also. [18:14]
assbot Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPCY7G ) [18:14]
shinohai Heh i need to find those dumb dogecoins i have somewhere and cash 'em out for btc, i could use it. [18:14]
phf ascii_field: oh i wan't talking in the abstract, i was thinking in terms of prescriptive specifically when it comes to working on bitcoind [18:14]
* tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [18:15]
ascii_field phf: for so long as it runs on a consumer pc, it will exhibit the braindamage characteristic to the pc. [18:15]
peterl http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217674 << why does everybody mention it was a dentist that killed the lion? Did a tooth extraction go horribly wrong? [18:15]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 10:25:45; scoopbot_revived: Cecil the Lion is a Pretext for Expanding Extraterritoriality of US Law http://qntra.net/2015/07/cecil-the-lion-is-a-pretext-for-expanding-extraterritoriality-of-us-law/ [18:15]
ascii_field such as losing bits when the mains current flickers [18:15]
ascii_field peterl: it is hidden 'class' outrage [18:15]
ascii_field 'why is a dentist wealthy enough to go on safari ?!' [18:16]
ascii_field phinancier - a-ok [18:16]
ascii_field politico - a-ok [18:16]
ascii_field kill, eat the last panda, why not. [18:16]
ascii_field dentist?! atrocity. [18:16]
shinohai We should help preserve as many lions as possible, IMO. What else are we gonna feed all the Xstians to? [18:17]
ascii_field ocelots. [18:17]
peterl reminds me of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1430626/ where the antagonists are a bunch of rich snobs who strive to eat the most rare species [18:18]
assbot Les Pirates! Bons à rien, mauvais en tout (2012) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPDhPG ) [18:18]
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peterl why did assbot get the title in french? [18:18]
pete_dushenski because kako's a socialist [18:20]
phf ascii_field: there's a lot of leaky abstractions in the current codebase, starting with "string" and "bignum". presumably the solution for those will be to port bitcoind to an architecture with tagged memory? [18:20]
ascii_field phf: aha. [18:20]
ascii_field phf: and if you know of these leaking in some meaningful sense, please say. [18:21]
* assbot removes voice from peterl [18:22]
phf ascii_field: so what's the difference between existing leaky abstractions that don't leak in some meaningful sense and the ones that we decide to introduce? [18:26]
ascii_field phf: please give more specific example ? [18:27]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Comment rescued [18:27]
phf ascii_field: oh i'm still on the subject of wal logs [18:27]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo cheers mate. i guess i'm in the spammer books or something [18:28]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: You most likely used a spammy word combo. Or you lost your automatic approval browser cookie since your last comment. [18:28]
ascii_field phf: when you lose your keys, you may not know exactly where they are, but you can be very certain that they are not on the moon. [18:28]
ascii_field this is what it means for an abstraction not to leak. [18:29]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo myeah. ah well. all better nao ! [18:29]
* ben_vulpes is looking forward to digesting three days of megalog [18:30]
* SuchWow (~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:30]
ben_vulpes !up SuchWow [18:30]
* assbot gives voice to SuchWow [18:30]
ben_vulpes how's the dogecoin? [18:30]
SuchWow lol [18:31]
SuchWow as always :) [18:31]
SuchWow kinda surprising how stable it's been [18:31]
SuchWow how's the bitcoin? [18:31]
ben_vulpes scam, as always [18:31]
Adlai kinda surprising how unstable it's been [18:31]
SuchWow any hot new bitcoin assets? [18:33]
SuchWow are there IPOs with bitcoin based stocks at all [18:34]
Adlai ;;ident suchwow [18:35]
gribble Nick 'suchwow', with hostmask 'SuchWow!~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow', is not identified. [18:35]
SuchWow I am just SuchWow, never cared for identing with anything other than nickserv [18:38]
SuchWow they do know me in #dogecoin tho, it's true. ;) [18:38]
shinohai If you aren't in WoT, you don't exist. [18:39]
SuchWow i like being invisible [18:39]
asciilifeform !down SuchWow [18:39]
* assbot removes voice from SuchWow [18:39]
ascii_field very invisible. [18:39]
ascii_field you're welcome, SuchWow [18:39]
shinohai ty ascii_field [18:40]
phf ascii_field: i'm having hard time understanding your point then. c++ on a von neumann machine leaks by protocol, so we either write against the guarantees of the underlying machine or not at all? [18:40]
ascii_field phf: c++ on x86 will be a turd, yes [18:41]
ascii_field and if phf read the logz, he knows that i am an opponent of maintaining the 0.5.3 thing into eternity. [18:41]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [18:42]
phf !up ascii_field [18:42]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [18:42]
phf huh, i actually forgot that. it was somewhere in the discussion about conformal implementation, "not written in wot" [18:43]
ascii_field phf: more of a 'written in proprietary turdlang' [18:44]
ascii_field but also, yes, non-wot [18:44]
mircea_popescu ascii_field: we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium << this sounds like it';d sell [18:44]
ascii_field sold great in usa! [18:44]
ascii_field 1800-1920 roughly [18:44]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218673 << any good nudes ? [18:46]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is *still signed in*. [18:46]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218686 << obvious;ly thewir derpy web2.0 site doesn't load here. how much actual BTC could i get by shorting a billion eth atm, provided of course there were an actual market for the thing which behaved like a market and so i could do this ? [18:48]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 20:57:05; pete_dushenski: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land [18:48]
ascii_field let's together visit the planet with the market-that-behaves-like-market [18:49]
pete_dushenski let's see, at 8 btc a day... [18:49]
ascii_field mircea_popescu can short eth there [18:49]
ascii_field and i will sell real cpu. [18:49]
mircea_popescu go there, come back with functioning hardware ? [18:49]
kakobrekla peterl because the end point of assbot url parser is in france. assbot is on another server, for obvious reasons. [18:50]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu you'd be an even older old man by the time you went through a billion eth [18:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91040 @ 0.00054297 = 49.432 BTC [+] {3} [18:50]
kakobrekla peterl and imdb wants to be 'smart'. [18:50]
mircea_popescu no, seriously, what's the thing quoted at ? [18:50]
pete_dushenski 0.01 btc/eth [18:50]
mircea_popescu ahahaah what! [18:51]
pete_dushenski pre-sale was 0.0005 [18:51]
mircea_popescu anyone wanna buy some eth from me ? [18:51]
ascii_field http://www.dbit.com/index.html << in other nyooz, this exists. [18:51]
assbot D Bit Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGFsF ) [18:51]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski lol ? they claimed iirc something more like 0.001 which is whyt i was offering 5k for 1btc last year [18:52]
mircea_popescu meanwhile they sold for 1/4 what i was offering ? "presale" , what's that, the web2.0 word for "fraud" ? [18:52]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu pre-sale was 1337 - 2000 eth/btc, depending on timing [18:52]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 1/0.0005 [18:52]
gribble 2000 [18:52]
mircea_popescu aha! [18:53]
mircea_popescu it's starting to come back to me. [18:53]
mircea_popescu so anyone wanna pay me 100 btc for 10k etc ? [18:53]
pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/ << obligatory [18:53]
assbot A Guide To Buying 5000 Ether/Bitcoin, 2.5x More Than Ethereum’s Genesis Sale Offers | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGPjz ) [18:53]
mircea_popescu yeah. lulz of all time. [18:54]
ascii_field and that iso boots! [18:55]
ascii_field in 250 milliseconds (emulator), no less [18:55]
ascii_field damn. [18:55]
mircea_popescu o.O [18:55]
mircea_popescu which ios this ? [18:55]
shinohai great article pete_dushenski [19:04]
pete_dushenski thanks man [19:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34709 @ 0.00053363 = 18.5218 BTC [-] {3} [19:04]
shinohai I think I read somewhere that failed "social currency" reddcoin 's lead developer quit, after squandering all their IPCO funds, and now they are going to attempt round two. [19:08]
ascii_field mircea_popescu: http://www.dbit.com/demo.html << it [19:08]
assbot Ersatz-11 Demo version ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDwdE2 ) [19:08]
ascii_field i bet that fella sleeps ad libitum [19:09]
ascii_field and has a spiffy long grey beard. [19:09]
ascii_field no 'css' on that www ! [19:09]
ascii_field that thing talks to modern nics, etc. [19:11]
ascii_field (from emulated pdp11) [19:11]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:12]
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asciilifeform !up ascii_field [19:19]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [19:19]
ascii_field http://www.dbit.com/putr/putr.asm << he develops in asm, aha [19:19]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDxhrx ) [19:20]
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ascii_field http://moneyandtech.com/mark-karpeles-agents-responsible-mt-gox-hack << lulz >> http://www.coindesk.com/report-tokyo-police-seeking-fraud-charges-against-mt-gox-ceo [19:36]
assbot Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdip ) [19:36]
assbot Report: Police Seeking Criminal Charges Against Mt Gox CEO ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdiz ) [19:36]
ascii_field https://archive.is/YmBC8 [19:36]
assbot Mark Karpeles: US Agents Might Be Responsible for Mt. Gox Hack | Money & Tech ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVhPb ) [19:36]
trinque has king karp skipped tokyo yet? [19:36]
trinque holy shit, at least he said it aloud [19:38]
decimation <+jurov> funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog < shannon applies to intertubes, as his theory applies to all tranmission of information - you must expend energy to communicate and there is no infinitely reliable channel [19:39]
ascii_field trinque: disappointing further down, where he accuses the sr investigator derps [19:39]
ascii_field rather than his actual handlers [19:39]
ascii_field (karpeles doesn't want to eat the nailgun yet, apparently) [19:39]
trinque too bad; he almost did something half-honorable [19:40]
trinque sr --> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044 [19:42]
assbot Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now. [19:42]
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trinque do they do anything else anymore, other than govt theater [19:43]
trinque this of course doesn't absolve gox of being grossly incompetent [19:46]
trinque but fascinating. [19:46]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_field [19:50]
jurov decimation: since you like to split hairs, does, say, does the noise distribution in your internet connection have a value you can use in shannon's theorem? [19:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78156 @ 0.00052515 = 41.0436 BTC [-] [19:52]
jurov i'd say it does not, it's either almost noiseless or there's no connection at all [19:52]
jurov like arguing about newtonian physics in videogame [19:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58122 @ 0.00053686 = 31.2034 BTC [+] {4} [19:57]
* ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [19:58]
BingoBoingo Since scoop seems missing http://qntra.net/2015/07/karpeles-facing-charges-in-japan/ [19:58]
assbot Karpeles Facing Charges in Japan? | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbH0lG ) [19:58]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell williamdunne bring back scoops ! [19:58]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:58]
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decimation jurov: not so. plenty of packets would be lost if you attempted to spam me with udp, for instance [20:16]
decimation but at any rate, you can experiment yourself, dump large quantities of data from one machine to another. you will find a non-zero error rate eventually [20:16]
decimation it's quite low, but not infinitely so [20:17]
decimation I suppose I don't see a difference between analog and digital communication, even in principle [20:17]
* assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0 [20:17]
ag3nt_zer0 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217340 << general wesley snipes lol [20:23]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 01:58:03; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217301 << the legal precedent is that if you're thye sort of guy that solves his own poroblems rather than seek the help of the state, you're a self-radicalizing terrorists and general wesley snipes of nato wants you in treblinka [20:23]
BingoBoingo https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6 << lulz [20:25]
assbot Block size according to technological growth. · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbIM6k ) [20:25]
ag3nt_zer0 trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217349 << total agreement. that book I linked you to put it this way "If an idea is true, it belongs equally to all who are capable of understanding it." p.56 - did you ever get to that btw? [20:34]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 02:15:56; trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned. [20:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128000 @ 0.00052398 = 67.0694 BTC [-] {2} [20:47]
BingoBoingo So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm [20:48]
ben_vulpes y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have *had* good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espresso is only casi casi. [20:52]
BingoBoingo Not sources provided at http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/bitcoin-0.7.2/ are now out of sync with what I am actually running [20:55]
assbot Index of /bitcoin-0.7.2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQ4wEJ ) [20:55]
BingoBoingo *Note [20:55]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218870 << why did you do this, again...? [20:57]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 23:45:27; BingoBoingo: So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm [20:57]
asciilifeform why not backport whatever it was you liked so much in 0.7 ?? [20:57]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: So I can learn and derp on systems other people aren't counting on [20:58]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: nobody's counting on 0.5.3 last i knew... [20:58]
asciilifeform (except possibly for me, i moved my personal flagship to my bleeding tree; but i'm not a serious user of bitcoin) [20:59]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218871 << none of the cups i had there tasted of burned diesel the way 'starbucks' mandatorily does. [20:59]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 23:49:03; ben_vulpes: y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have *had* good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espre [20:59]
asciilifeform this alone is enough for me. [21:00]
BingoBoingo It is hard to say what anyone counts on. It is also hard to say how well I actually understand the cpp I attempt a performance of reading. And so Imma keep chopping at this for a while to get more familiar with the code. main.cpp is already ~1000 loc shorter than 0.7.2 release, perhaps more. I figure Derp on 0.7, read 0.5.x and patches and maybe at some point I will understand [21:02]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: imho, the problem is that the item you are becoming familiar with, has no future. [21:03]
asciilifeform it is taking up space in your head where you could, potentially, put something valuable. [21:03]
BingoBoingo Head has plenty of space. I drink to clear up plenty of useful space in head. Anyways chopping away on system I choose to depend on that no one else uses provides a serious incentive to not fuck up. [21:05]
BingoBoingo 0.5.3 isn't much different from 0.7.2 really a lot of overlap. Mostly just more loc, but not too many differences yet in the ones they share. Most of the wild differences and cpp-isms enter in 0.8 and 0.9 and beyond [21:06]
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trinque ag3nt_zer0: began, then workload ate my free time for a bit, but it's still in my stack [21:20]
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BingoBoingo https://www.yahoo.com/travel/man-sues-airline-says-fat-seatmate-caused-back-125462803042.html [21:47]
assbot Man Sues Airline — Says Fat Seatmate Caused Back Injury ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCB8I0 ) [21:47]
asciilifeform ;;later tell jurov would you please consider getting rid of the PILE OF SHIT appended to the filenames ? [21:56]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:56]
asciilifeform i believe that i am not alone in ragingly hating its fucking guts [21:56]
BingoBoingo http://www.itworld.com/article/2954835/oracle-preps-sonoma-chip-for-lowpriced-sparc-servers.html << possibly related to Elbrus revival [21:57]
assbot Oracle preps 'Sonoma' chip for low-priced Sparc servers | ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDPTre ) [21:57]
asciilifeform i don't see why i should EVER have to mv bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1_8a8d52a747f0b0bd5d7a2cce9d0938f1dd6e1239.tar.gz.sig bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1.tar.gz.sig [21:57]
trinque mmyeah that's pretty annoying [21:57]
shinohai I wondered about that myself, but just meh'd it off an mv [21:58]
asciilifeform i'm done 'mehing things off' [21:58]
asciilifeform this is how we end up buried in cement truck full of shit [21:58]
asciilifeform zero tolerance. [21:58]
trinque https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-July/066638.html [21:59]
assbot [Mailman-Users] Disable attachment scrubbing? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCCwKF ) [21:59]
trinque might be the thing [22:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36956 @ 0.00053665 = 19.8324 BTC [+] {3} [22:04]
shinohai True dat, asciilifeform ... mod6 told me the same :/ [22:11]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i will point out that i have not been able to locate an elbrus, nor has, last i asked, mircea_popescu, nor anyone else i know [22:12]
asciilifeform if any were produced at all, they are being used in-house. [22:12]
asciilifeform like the last... 4 of'em [22:12]
asciilifeform not even golden, but monocrystalline diamond toilet. [22:13]
BingoBoingo That is likely. If any escape it may be that oracle wishes to kill the market for them. [22:13]
BingoBoingo With cheap USG sparc [22:13]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: this is the one thing guaranteed not to happen [22:13]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: given as the whole purpose of elbrus, to the extent it had one, is to be a non-nato computer [22:14]
asciilifeform suitable for use in, e.g., ru nukes [22:14]
asciilifeform thus it does not compete in any market where american product is present [22:14]
BingoBoingo Of course, but USG is rarely rational anymore. [22:15]
asciilifeform the hilarious part re: elbrus - given ~only~ the published material - is that it has standard chinese peripherals, on memory-mapped i/o... [22:15]
asciilifeform it's almost like no one is even ~trying~. [22:16]
asciilifeform https://cryptome.org/2015/07/wikileaks-stratfor-malware.htm << lulz [22:16]
assbot WikiLeaks Stratfor Emails Contain Malware [22:16]
shinohai I dunno why I feel such distaste fr Julian Assange, I have never been able to put a finger on it. [22:17]
asciilifeform because he's a usg tool ? [22:17]
trinque he certainly stinks of one. [22:18]
asciilifeform (to a first approximation, 'famous in usg media' ======= usg tool) [22:18]
shinohai lol [22:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79354 @ 0.00052244 = 41.4577 BTC [-] {4} [22:19]
shinohai I jokingly said that perhaps he and Edward Snowden were gay lovers on reddit once, and almost got tarred and feathered. [22:20]
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asciilifeform mod6, ben_vulpes, trinque, et al: if any of you had problems with 'rotor,' be aware that the toolchain dir and its contents CANNOT BE MOVED OR RENAMED [22:24]
asciilifeform they contain configs with absolute paths ! [22:24]
asciilifeform this idiocy is not my doing, it is gcc/binutils. [22:24]
trinque I can use it just fine now [22:25]
asciilifeform i.e. if you built it and it ended up sitting down in /home/luser/a/b/d/e/f/g/p/q/r/s, it will stay there. or rebuild WHOLE THING again. [22:25]
trinque just seems like db's configure script has some problem, and grabbed some data from my env [22:25]
asciilifeform trinque: post patch plz [22:25]
asciilifeform for the others. [22:25]
trinque will do [22:25]
trinque otherwise pretty impressive that the diff between the two binaries was so small [22:26]
asciilifeform try 'vbindiff' and explore it. [22:26]
trinque k [22:26]
asciilifeform i'd like to get it to be null. [22:26]
asciilifeform so we can start talking about bytes in the bin! [22:27]
asciilifeform with absolute locations. [22:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00052872 = 9.702 BTC [+] [22:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77002 @ 0.00053801 = 41.4278 BTC [+] {2} [23:04]
Category: Logs
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