Forum logs for 30 Jul 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	no but just for my curiosity, what's github to do with a quarter bil ?	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	buy each employee ten dumptrucks full of pens ?	[00:00]
decimation	buy sourceforge and scam?	[00:01]
decimation	I donno	[00:01]
decimation	it's kinda the same question as "what's apple gonna do with $60b"	[00:02]
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decimation	one guess: hire a full-time staff of indians to vigilantly search committed code for perceived slights	[00:02]
trinque	god knows why, america is drunk on QE	[00:02]
decimation	maybe they can get into the space business too	[00:03]
decimation	lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales"	[00:05]
decimation	I'm sure the homos at apple support utf8, but apparently it doesn't work with whatever buildroot wants	[00:05]
*	assbot removes voice from mitzip	[00:05]
decimation	!up julmac	[00:06]
*	assbot gives voice to julmac	[00:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17436 @ 0.00053317 = 9.2964 BTC [+]	[00:06]
decimation	lol the problem was that buildroot was grepping 'locale -a' for utf8, while apple uses 'utf-8'	[00:12]
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trinque	http://xtnodes.com/ << even their bullshit graph is on the descent	[00:13]
assbot	XTnodes.com - Bitcoin XT Nodes ... ( http://bit.ly/1U879cH )	[00:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.000535 = 12.519 BTC [+]	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	trinque you don't understand how "consensus" works	[00:17]
trinque	they're building it?	[00:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50916 @ 0.00052796 = 26.8816 BTC [-] {3}	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	the funny thing will be that this schmuck will still be going around pretending like he actually exists and so forth even after this idiocy goes the way of neobee and "bitcoin security experts group"	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	just like phantomcircuit still goes around, an aethero waiting to happen.	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	somewhat related, chain jiggling. http://33.media.tumblr.com/d4a5a524277a7efa25c66c7760493d89/tumblr_mumme8jB3v1szhqszo1_500.gif	[00:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1U87BaM )	[00:19]
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mircea_popescu	decimation check it out, they need a metalocale. hopefully implemented as multibyte too!	[00:23]
lobbesbot	New post: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss Phuctored RSA Modulus, GCD=3 (randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; randomnoize (Tor relay operator) ; )	[00:23]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	p=3. hm.	[00:24]
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decimation	heh yeah. apple makes up standards as they go	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	(ftr, intrigeri is something crazy with the bug reports, may be all-internet record holder)	[00:28]
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mircea_popescu	yup, that's the only time so far 3 appears alone as a factor.	[00:34]
*	assbot removes voice from julmac	[00:36]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[10:35]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[10:35]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[10:35]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[10:35]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform mnope.	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	re http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00#page-3 < i think it's a fabulous idea. udp belongs the same place finger, telnet and email belong. the scrapheap of a different world, one where undergrads did not have internet access.	[10:37]
assbot	draft-byrne-opsec-udp-advisory-00 - Advisory Guidelines for UDP Deployment ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCSyG0 )	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	once aol was allowed online, it necessarily followed no udp. i'm sick of having to deal with it.	[10:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: single-packet auth is the only gossipd worth using.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	i wish it were made a law that no isp may provide udp connectivity for a price under the minimum wage.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	you can have single packet auth outside of udp.	[10:39]
Azelphur	mircea_popescu: you realise UDP is essential for a number of services and that they wouldn't function using TCP, right?	[10:39]
asciilifeform	whether it is done with udp as such or raw ip (i.e. udp with protocol field set to 666) is immaterial	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	Azelphur fuck them all.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	and no ntp either.	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	i don't care what you need. fuck you and your needs. the infrastructure can't support udp in the current configuration. you don't get udp for this reason.	[10:40]
Azelphur	mircea_popescu: so fuck most VOIP services, Games, and anything else that requires low latency without packet delivery confirmation? XD	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	you want upd, make it illegal for retards to connect.	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	YES.	[10:40]
asciilifeform	the infrastructure can't support ~anything~ in its current configuration.	[10:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42370 @ 0.00054411 = 23.0539 BTC [-]	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not germane, even though valid.	[10:40]
Azelphur	Also, if anything UDP is lighter on the infrastructure than TCP	[10:40]
asciilifeform	^	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	not so.	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	it is only lighter if used by responsible users.	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	until you get those, it's just a ddos haven.	[10:40]
asciilifeform	irresponsible users are to be unplugged.	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	do that, then i'll change my mind.	[10:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the thing about raw ip is that it typically requires os support	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	hey, im not saying there's a good alternative.	[10:41]
asciilifeform	and, more direly, well-behaved routing	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	im just saying you don't own the moon, is all.	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	whether its made of cheese or not.	[10:42]
asciilifeform	(it is much easier to filter, and will be filtered by usg infrastructure.)	[10:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu prefers to be ddosed with tcp ?	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	yes. much easier to filter.	[10:43]
asciilifeform	i will say it again, the push against udp is usg disinfo. and everyone who buys into it should retreat to the library with a copy of richard stevens and think very carefully.	[10:44]
asciilifeform	it is physically impossible to get any easier to filter than udp-with-signature	[10:44]
asciilifeform	because: no state.	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	no dude, your solution is right. want "internet" ? sure, 50 dollars a month gets you gawker, washitpo and crapple dot com.	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	they do not belong outside of the walled gardens, keep em there.	[10:45]
Azelphur	Surely in that example most of your business would never have existed?	[10:45]
asciilifeform	and i suppose i will write letters to mircea_popescu and spirit them out in the rectums of pig carcasses loaded onto the great sailing ships ?	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	Azelphur the part of my business that consists of redditards opining would never have existed. to my benefit.	[10:46]
Azelphur	(No access to outside websites -> no access to Bitcoin -> Bitcoin never takes off)	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the absence of a solution is not an argument in favour of shitpiles.	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	Azelphur http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/	[10:46]
assbot	Bitcoin in Argentina : exactly nothing to do with the derps on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1eCTVVg )	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	if you imagine bitcoin took off because the muppets, you're inhabiting a very special place.	[10:46]
asciilifeform	routing tcp no-questions-asked while filtering packets that could be signature-authed without storing state is braindamaged.	[10:47]
Azelphur	heh	[10:47]
asciilifeform	note that i'm all for rejecting unsigned udp	[10:47]
asciilifeform	(presently all of it)	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so then we don't even disagree.	[10:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the link concerned ~infrastructure~. usg is trying so that when i get my signed udp, and try to send it to mircea_popescu, it won't leave my street even.	[10:48]
asciilifeform	this is different from 'i recommend that mircea_popescu filter all unsigned udp at his door'	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	you are aware the usg can't maintain infrastructure anyway, and if you persist in staying there you will one day connect to b-a via satellite phones provided by, likely, fucking spain.	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	right ?	[10:48]
asciilifeform	alcatel is usg to me	[10:48]
asciilifeform	and so is every oceanic fiber.	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	usg is arguing that "olympics are bad mkay, not because we can't afford anything, but because <<>>".	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	if you think the dispute as to how internet won't be available in the future in the us comes down to what anyone wants, usg or not usg...	[10:49]
asciilifeform	that is one usg, yes	[10:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i don't see this picture where it is absent in us but somehow present in patagonia	[10:50]
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mircea_popescu	as the bear was getting ready to stomp the anthill, the anthill in question was very animated by the following political debate : some ants wanted to tear down one wall, while some other ants thought this is stupid.	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, because you bought into the ridoinculous "us=world" nonsense.	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	tell you what, it'll fall into the ocean and nobody'll even notice.	[10:51]
asciilifeform	as far as the machines are concerned, this is actually true	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	i guess you get to see the wonder to believe the wonder then.	[10:51]
asciilifeform	recall thread with chinese si fabs running winblowz ?	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	recall the thread with the sluts living there wearing "D&G" purses ?	[10:52]
asciilifeform	i dare to suggest that there is not a single transoceanic line or satellite in orbit that usg could not arbitrarily diddle, or remove entirely, at their pleasure.	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	and also beat up superman.	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	tu-tu-tuuuut!	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	looky here : "there's no blade of grass in the forest that the doe could not shit on, at its pleasure". perhaps. fact : grass will grow through where the antlers were, and not know the difference.	[10:53]
asciilifeform	ultimately - certain	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	not that far off, either.	[10:54]
asciilifeform	everybody gets 'ozymandiased' in the end.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	all the diddling it's gonna do, it mostly did already.	[10:54]
asciilifeform	recall the thread re: the 120 mains voltage ?	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	they're just broadly speaking acultural and unseflwarare enough, unlike the romans, so they don't spend three centuries waxing poetic over this understood situation	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	because too thick to understand it.	[10:54]
asciilifeform	some kinds of damage - stick around, long after the antlers have grown with grass.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	to me 120 v is nothing but a quaint curio.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	like reddit.	[10:55]
asciilifeform	check again once copper costs what silver does.	[10:55]
asciilifeform	this is not a win.	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, this happens with some regularity in history	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	might be what, the 12th time maybe	[10:55]
asciilifeform	the times prior to mains current don't count.	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	because why ?	[10:56]
asciilifeform	because copper was negotiable.	[10:56]
asciilifeform	but efficiency and cost of cable aside,	[10:57]
asciilifeform	120v is no mere curio to the folks in the u.s. or post-u.s. world whose cities burn on account of pinched-cable-and-too-many-amps	[10:57]
asciilifeform	a daily occurrence	[10:57]
asciilifeform	which is precisely twice as probably on 120v as 240	[10:57]
asciilifeform	*probable	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	i'm sure all sorts of things are not daily curious to various troglodytes.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	raped-for-being-white is, i hear, a fact of life for the losers of the 3rd boer war	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	still, a quaint curio for me.	[10:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu had 240 run to his flat ?	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	220	[10:58]
asciilifeform	spiffy	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	oh, you mean for my brief stay there ?	[10:58]
asciilifeform	wherever living now	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	all the world is on 220 you know.	[10:59]
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*	asciilifeform was warned that he might encounter both american and civilized voltage in ar	[10:59]
*	asciilifeform not certain whether this is actual problem there or not	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	i guess you could get 120 if you absolutely want it, via generators	[10:59]
asciilifeform	jp, notably, is a 120 land	[11:00]
asciilifeform	for reasons of conquest	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	so is american samoa. what of it.	[11:00]
asciilifeform	what of it, is that this 'gift keeps on giving' even after washington is buried in the sand.	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	i don't see it.	[11:01]
*	assbot gives voice to lobbes	[11:01]
asciilifeform	like unix	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	just because some colonies have mental issues it does not follow anything except that some colonists need to extract head from ass.	[11:01]
asciilifeform	when extracting head from ass means 'you get to rebuild the things no one knows how to build now'	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	lmao check it out, liberia as well. that poor country.	[11:01]
lobbes	@rss announce list	[11:01]
lobbesbot	lobbes: http://nosuchlabs.com/rss	[11:01]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )	[11:01]
lobbes	@rss remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss	[11:02]
lobbesbot	lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name.	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, that's what it always means.	[11:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )	[11:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ergo, for so long as anyone has the choice of '120v or hunt rats by candlelight', there will be 120v around	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[11:02]
asciilifeform	so - for martian, nothing of interest. for us earthlings who live in a world not entirely of our own creation - everything.	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	i imagine as long as "9 volt batteries or hunt rats by candlelight" is the choice, there's going to be a lot of "9 volt" systems out there too.	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	why's anyone's poverty, intellectual or otherwise, a criterion ?	[11:03]
asciilifeform	for same reason x86 is a criterion.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	hardly.	[11:04]
asciilifeform	same deal incidentally	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	not in the slightest.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	x86 makes sense. 120 volt is trivially abstracted away by two step transformers.	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	there's no alternative to x86 on the table.	[11:05]
asciilifeform	but they stick around for same reason	[11:05]
lobbes	@rss remove phuctor	[11:05]
lobbesbot	lobbes: Error: That's not a valid RSS feed command name.	[11:05]
asciilifeform	(not everything is a dc power supply with arbitrary input !)	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	nah. one sticks around because it works. the other because it's the best alternative. you don't like either of them, it's true, but that fact does not alter the reality.	[11:06]
*	lobbes (~lobbes@unaffiliated/lobbes) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Leaving")	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	one's a champ, the other's a hanger on.	[11:06]
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asciilifeform	x86 'works' is perhaps the ultimate illusion.	[11:06]
asciilifeform	'supports winblowz and unix' is not 'works'	[11:06]
*	assbot gives voice to lobbes	[11:07]
asciilifeform	it sticks around because 'market' is a braindead slave to its own past, like pregnant cow	[11:08]
mircea_popescu	perhaps. whatd you have it run ?	[11:09]
asciilifeform	just pointing out the incongruity of 'x86 is winner'	[11:10]
asciilifeform	the situation of 'drivers', for instance, is quite analogous to situation where every block of flats has own voltage, frequency, and mains socket shape that the landlord felt like drawing on a napkin.	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	dja see the difference between "hmm, i intuit in my urine that x86 sucks" and "lolut, 120v?	[11:10]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[11:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i see a difference of degree only	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	there's no alternative in a "moore's law" shithole, for very good reasons.	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	now that that curse's dead and buried, we can actually design this shit.	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	there wasn't much in the way of sane transportation routes in the fronteer, either.	[11:11]
trinque	asciilifeform: I did a binary diff between your binary posted to the ML and mine using bsdiff; the result was about 60kb	[11:12]
asciilifeform	trinque: you will notice that gcc embeds turds	[11:12]
trinque	might be interesting to inspect it and see what's different	[11:12]
asciilifeform	trinque: i did this experiment, and found quite a few variations (machine version strings - srsly, wtf gcc ? an automated annihilator for these is a necessity) ; optimizations	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform consider how rapidly bitcoin mining ditched the cpu, and then the gpu, to get a feel of just how unstable this domination you perceive is.	[11:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: there was no legacy lockin in bitcoin !	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	except computing.	[11:13]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: any idea why qntra snarfed my comment ? i tried posting again but i'm being told it's a "duplicate". somehow stuck in moderation ?	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	and microsoft fucking visual studio.	[11:13]
asciilifeform	in mining in particular.	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	there's no lockin in computing generally.	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	just as soon as the economics make sense, your x86 nemesis is gone. two years, tops.	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	TOPS.	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	now make the economics work.	[11:14]
asciilifeform	arm == x86 for my purposes.	[11:14]
asciilifeform	out with old hardwaremicroshit, in with new, same.	[11:14]
asciilifeform	where is the boundschecking cpu ?	[11:15]
asciilifeform	nowhere.	[11:15]
asciilifeform	though it existed in 1976.	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	same place the usable docs for bitcoin are.	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	waiting.	[11:15]
lobbes	@rss announce remove http://nosuchlabs.com/rss	[11:17]
lobbesbot	lobbes: The operation succeeded.	[11:17]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1gNelws )	[11:17]
lobbes	there, no more spammy	[11:17]
mircea_popescu	could it just do the announcements once ?	[11:17]
lobbes	williamdunne: if your bot can store teh history, feel free to take over. If not, then first one there wins, I guess ;/	[11:18]
decimation	lol being against udp is like being against IP	[11:18]
lobbes	well, I'm using the default 'supybot' RSS plugin	[11:18]
lobbes	which, I guess doesn't store history	[11:18]
mircea_popescu	lobbes and it has no storage ? aha	[11:18]
lobbes	aye, I'ma have to edit teh python	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	so any idea what causes the replay ?	[11:19]
punkman	it has but no persistence	[11:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: me restarting phuctor	[11:19]
lobbes	^	[11:19]
asciilifeform	causes the replay.	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so if i restart trilema, it doesn't pop them out again	[11:19]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i haven't any notion as to ~why~	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	does your restart fuck up the rss feed, such as by altering the dates it displays ?	[11:20]
asciilifeform	not on my end !	[11:20]
asciilifeform	i suspect that lobbesbot has an elementary bug where it allows rss feed to ratchet backwards	[11:20]
asciilifeform	i.e. loads a momentarily-down phuctor and says 'null set'	[11:20]
asciilifeform	then diffs from this null set when it comes back.	[11:20]
lobbes	I do notice the dates change on phuctor RSS	[11:20]
lobbes	when restart happens	[11:20]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so the rss feed is exactly identical pre and post restart. how would the bot know something changed then	[11:20]
lobbes	but bot should still be able to handle	[11:20]
asciilifeform	lobbes: i warned many times that the dates on phuctor are meaningless	[11:21]
*	assbot gives voice to diana_coman	[11:21]
*	lobbes nods	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you don't get to respecify rss eh	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	people use prepackaged software	[11:21]
asciilifeform	i did warn.	[11:21]
asciilifeform	there is no field in the db presently for 'time when phuctored'	[11:21]
asciilifeform	there is ONLY time-submitted.	[11:21]
asciilifeform	i explained this in agonizing detail. it is in the log.	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	ok, so could it be that the lobbesbot sees new dates decides new articles ?	[11:22]
decimation	the only sane way to track diffs would be to keep the entire history then	[11:22]
lobbes	yeah, I think that is the problem, which it should be able to handle	[11:22]
asciilifeform	decimation: simply storing the last 20 or so would do it	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	yeah this scheme doesn't lend itself to much rss ing	[11:22]
lobbes	it should use the url as a PK	[11:22]
asciilifeform	but even simpler fix,	[11:22]
asciilifeform	DO NOT EVER RATCHET BACK!	[11:22]
asciilifeform	it is RETARDED	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what's "back" when you don't keep time yo.	[11:23]
*	lobbes agrees	[11:23]
asciilifeform	'back' is 'item is in memory cache but now isn't there when i load, it must have un-happened'	[11:23]
decimation	which is why you need the entire state	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	yeah, srsly.	[11:23]
asciilifeform	lobbesbot ~does~ keep a cache,	[11:23]
asciilifeform	i know this because it is not spewing same thing every five minutes	[11:23]
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mircea_popescu	lobbes can you discern if he has a point, does the cache get 0'd out if it looks at a zero feed ?	[11:24]
asciilifeform	the only way it could possibly work as it presently does is by storing ~some~ history	[11:24]
lobbes	hmm, that is true	[11:24]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:24]
asciilifeform	considering that ~every single phuctored key so far~ is dated june, or may even	[11:24]
asciilifeform	iirc	[11:24]
*	assbot gives voice to Duffer1	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	and speaking of udp : fucking dns definitely must go away. stupidest kludge o nthe whole internet.	[11:26]
asciilifeform	it is also the foremost usg organ	[11:26]
asciilifeform	of the direct, unabashed kind	[11:26]
decimation	yes, ascii's wot-signed udp would be the first application for ip-to-namespace	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform aha.	[11:27]
asciilifeform	what i'd really like to see is what mircea_popescu proposes i use for single-packet auth that 1) isn't udp 2) existing net will reliably route 3) existing os will agree to emit without any new code running as root	[11:27]
asciilifeform	and 4) isn't readily and easily flagged and filtered as 't3rr0r1st net' by 90% of world's isp	[11:28]
decimation	ascii has a point here ^	[11:28]
decimation	udp can't be easily distinguished, and this is a gossipd-flavor	[11:28]
*	ColinT has quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com)	[11:29]
asciilifeform	^	[11:29]
decimation	in fact, you need not put the true address of the recipient in the ip header as long as you can arrange to be somewhere to 'hear' it	[11:29]
asciilifeform	it is tcp which is the ultimate braindamage.	[11:30]
decimation	^	[11:30]
decimation	pretending that you have a connection on a completely 'broadcast' media is fucktarded	[11:30]
asciilifeform	bringing back state and 'i just showed up and you have no idea who i am but can i pleeez have some bytes of storage'	[11:30]
*	ColinT (~ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:30]
asciilifeform	like the fucking orphan blox	[11:31]
decimation	and it's not exactly like it is hard to game the tcp state machine	[11:31]
asciilifeform	any protocol where someone gets something, anything more expensive than a bullet, for showing up at the gate,	[11:31]
asciilifeform	is ipso facto retarded.	[11:31]
decimation	you ban udp, and you are just gonna get syn floods	[11:31]
asciilifeform	no exceptions.	[11:31]
asciilifeform	the unfortunate place we're going to is where gossip packets can only be emitted, received, or routed by os that we personally issue; and will only travel on cables to and from mircea_popescu's house	[11:33]
asciilifeform	this is, i argue, an avoidable calamity	[11:33]
asciilifeform	and the way to avoid it is by resisting, unconditionally, any and all seemingly-reasonable suggestions by usg tools to constrict the permissible set of the net.	[11:35]
asciilifeform	for whatever reason.	[11:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35368 @ 0.00054084 = 19.1284 BTC [-] {3}	[11:35]
asciilifeform	ddos only exists because of usg. as in, deliberate decision to route maladdressed packets, infrastructurally.	[11:36]
asciilifeform	and it is part of a 'good cop & bad cop' act	[11:36]
asciilifeform	don't fall for the 'good cop'	[11:36]
asciilifeform	who tells that 'all will be well' if only you agree to limit net to tiny permissible set of stateful protocolz	[11:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: realize that udp ddoes only ever existed because the net is willing to route packets 'from victim's' machine to the idiot tv boxes, who 'answer' them	[11:37]
asciilifeform	*ddos	[11:37]
asciilifeform	this is the one and only reason it was ever possible.	[11:38]
asciilifeform	usg never liked the lack of inspectorial insight that udp creates. so they have deliberately set up this situation, long ago	[11:38]
asciilifeform	they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in.	[11:39]
asciilifeform	as tcp forces.	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	dude srsly. the fact that jews favour marriage is no argument pro or against.	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	udp is braindamaged in that it requires a certain sort of world.	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	either provide it the sort of world it requires or visit its grave.	[11:40]
asciilifeform	except that it doesn't	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	what the usg does or doesn't do, wants or doesn't want, etc is irrelevant to everything, usg included.	[11:40]
*	decimation is confused how any criticism of udp doesn't apply directly to any 'higher' ip protocol	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	decimation upd is hard to filter.	[11:41]
asciilifeform	it is relevant to having created this bizarre situation where mircea_popescu thinks that tcp somehow solves ANY of the problems discussed earlier	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you said yourself it's easier to filter!	[11:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: very easy to filter: reject anything that isn't a valid gossipd packet addressed to your key	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	i gotta check keys. takes memory allocation. ddos.	[11:41]
asciilifeform	no allocation!	[11:41]
decimation	preallocated	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	ahaha what.	[11:41]
asciilifeform	statically allocated buffer	[11:42]
asciilifeform	can verify packets at line speed.	[11:42]
asciilifeform	(not even speaking of fpga variant here)	[11:42]
decimation	no need for cpu either	[11:42]
decimation	but oculd have in first instance	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	dude get out srsly. i had dedicated machinery go down because random muppet + udp.	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	what are you even on about.	[11:42]
decimation	how many of the muppet's packets were signed?	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	me to isp "turn off fucking udp altogether, it's stupid" isp to me "you'll have toi buy the trunk"	[11:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: your machinery goes down even when you instruct it to drop all udp on the floor ?	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the sort of machine that currently goes down is well i nthe six figure range.	[11:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you gotta understand the protocol stack.	[11:43]
decimation	lol	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	getting EVERYONE to entirely drop udp as a matter of policy would be a huge gain for me.	[11:44]
decimation	I process 1 gigE udp at line rate on commodity server	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	decimation any time you wanna try processing 2-5mps let me know.	[11:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: so then you get flooded with TCP SYNs. same difference.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nope, those i filter ok.	[11:44]
decimation	or acks	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	neither.	[11:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: but not udp?	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	udp is the problem atm.	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	yes.,	[11:44]
asciilifeform	throw out your filter then	[11:44]
asciilifeform	and get new one	[11:44]
decimation	^	[11:44]
asciilifeform	because SAME FUCKING COMPUTATIONAL LOAD	[11:44]
*	mircea_popescu shrugs.	[11:44]
asciilifeform	to filter tcp syn vs empty udp	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform stop being theoretical on me. sure same load, not same amplification available.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck is going to create a syn flood for you.	[11:45]
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asciilifeform	enemy.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	who else.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	seriously, this discussion is asymmetrical.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	i handle about two ddos attacks a week.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	you maybe think about the theory of datagrams once a week.	[11:45]
asciilifeform	not as theoretical as mircea_popescu might think	[11:46]
mircea_popescu	in any case : if it were the rule that udp gets dropped universally, i wouldn't have to have above convo with provider.	[11:46]
asciilifeform	and never see gossipd	[11:46]
mircea_popescu	i'd count this as a plus.	[11:46]
mircea_popescu	ima see gossipd alright. atm, the infrastructure is not the problem.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	it being written is the problem. as always.	[11:47]
asciilifeform	over what single-packet proto ?	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	excel to excel viruses!	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ftr, i am noit proposing orphan-block TCP is any better. shouldreally be TCP/OB	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless...	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	no solutions available does not make shit palatable.	[11:54]
mircea_popescu	i still wish udp died, and with it all the "Services" it provides. starting with dns, ntp and come to think about it	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	it's a fucking wonder "locales" don't somehow udp.	[11:55]
decimation	ntp has a fucktarded exploit - that makes neither 'exchange of time' nor 'udp' retarded	[11:56]
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mircea_popescu	ntp IS a fucktarded exploit. of itself.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu	i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	what, jam tomorrow, maybe one day ima get gossipd over udp, perhaps, who knows ? meanwhile half the remaining usg online is BASED, and requires udp to survive at all ?	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	paint my nails and call me mary what the fuck is this.	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	no more udp => no more dns, no more ntp. win of all fucking time, i'd pay to see this happen tomorrow.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	also true.	[12:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57400 @ 0.00053864 = 30.9179 BTC [-]	[12:06]
kakobrekla	some providers can in fact drop all incoming udp traffic per ip.	[12:08]
decimation	I thought this was pretty standard for 'adult' cloud services	[12:08]
decimation	amazon aws certainly will not pass anything unless firewall is configured, for instance	[12:09]
kakobrekla	i wasnt talking about clold specifically.	[12:09]
decimation	it ought to be simply done in any standard router too	[12:10]
kakobrekla	i was in the place where mp is and they wouldnt do it.	[12:10]
kakobrekla	i moved.	[12:10]
mircea_popescu	decimation yes, unfortunately, yhet another advantage for shithole cloud. "hey, we drop udp at least". exactly the good cop bad cop alf was proposing. but i am not moving to fuckingf cloud, and im not using fucking cloudflare and so fucking om.	[12:11]
decimation	merely an example of an isp that can program routers	[12:11]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla i might. atm not really a big enough deal, whatever, some people can't read trilema for half a day or w/e. but we were discussing the general point.	[12:11]
mircea_popescu	and the general point is udp does not belong.	[12:12]
decimation	so you are against single packet routing in general?	[12:13]
kakobrekla	he is coming back because he is getting that half hour.	[12:13]
mircea_popescu	no, i am against udp.	[12:13]
kakobrekla	as far as i can tell the attacker of qntra (trilema?) is the same as it was of bitbet last ddos.	[12:13]
kakobrekla	but my box did not go down.	[12:13]
kakobrekla	and i dont even have udp blocked.	[12:13]
mircea_popescu	do tell ?	[12:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42487 @ 0.00054411 = 23.1176 BTC [+]	[12:14]
*	decimation fails to comprehend the difference between 'udp bad' and 'routing single ip packets good'	[12:15]
mircea_popescu	decimation udp is widely deployed in the hands of idiots.	[12:15]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i'm on a consumer fiber and, with modern hardware on my end (by no means six-figure), udp flood does not touch me.	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	everything that gives idiots voice is the avatar of evil.	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform did you ever have a decent one ?	[12:16]
kakobrekla	i am at online.net, recommended by davout (paymium). they have serveral levels of infrastructure to mitigate attacks.	[12:16]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: as decent as it gets (line saturation)	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	jhahahaha	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	you're new, seriously.	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	as decent as it gets = 500x line saturation three hops upstream.	[12:16]
asciilifeform	i mean, they can't walk in any faster than the 100Mb ethernet into the bldg	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	yes, they can. they can send you a trillion packets in fifteen minutes.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	because, again, udp.	[12:17]
asciilifeform	ok, those get dropped somewhere else	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	o i see.	[12:17]
kakobrekla	iirc server saw about 800 megs of the 5 gigabit incoming garbage	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	good for you.	[12:17]
asciilifeform	because how are they to walk in?	[12:17]
decimation	no, because ntp machines and misconfigured routers allow sending arbitrary packets	[12:17]
asciilifeform	through the window ?	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	they just take off the thing upstream. which IS six figures.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu	decimation fuck this "misconfigured" bs. because udp.	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	it is on its head.	[12:18]
asciilifeform	my isp clearly did not get defrauded in the same way as mircea_popescu's - because their six-figure machine does not as a result go down	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you're basically falling fore the "shared hosting" bit	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	your isp never had the problem, is all.	[12:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not suggesting that everyone is to move to mordor and subscribe to this isp	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	feel safe all you want, and maybe you never get to matter enough to find out better.	[12:18]
asciilifeform	but will point out that the million-chump botnet can just as easily transmit syn flood as udp crud	[12:19]
decimation	^ using misconfigured routers	[12:19]
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asciilifeform	go, 'feel safe' because you went along with usg's transparent attempt to ban the only presently working single-packet transmission medium.	[12:20]
asciilifeform	~they~ kick the dog	[12:21]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu volunteers to shoot it, not realizing that the dog-kicker will kick every dog mircea_popescu ever bends to pet	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it's not the "million chump botnet"	[12:22]
mircea_popescu	it's the dumbass services currently sitting on udp.	[12:22]
mircea_popescu	and you've never answered ot the main point here. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218091	[12:23]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 14:57:20; mircea_popescu: i find it kinda curious that asciilifeform and decimation can at the same time hold the discussion of political time we had recently in mind, and ALSO think breaking udp, or doing away with ntp is a bad idea.	[12:23]
kakobrekla	you are all being theoretical. in practice you stop udp at least one step before the server in any way you particularity like and be done with it.	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, the chump herd is eminently handle-able. the havok they can wreak by employing udp amps, not.	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla myeah.	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	except if that trunk serves idiots who need or think might need udp	[12:23]
decimation	but that's not udp's fault	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	in which case you have to pay.	[12:23]
mircea_popescu	yes, IT IS.	[12:23]
jurov	how is banning of udp going to magick dns/ntp away?	[12:24]
decimation	it's the fault of the misconfigured routers and the idiot ntp code	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	let them run on tcp/ip, should be fun to watch.	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	decimation if you shoot my dog by accident ima bury you	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	it can be the fault of the shitty gun you bought. buy better guns or more funerals.	[12:24]
jurov	then you'll just enable the reflection attacks right to your tcp port 80.. indeed fun to watch	[12:25]
asciilifeform	no routing of forged dest ip >>>>> no amplification ddos.	[12:25]
asciilifeform	that simple.	[12:25]
*	mircea_popescu reserves the sovereign right to blame anyhone on the path to the "accident" he chooses. so no, it's not "the misconfigured routers", i'm not the pitbull you put in the doorway, slam the door and it then "blames the misconfigured door".	[12:25]
decimation	okay, let's imagine a new 'mpdp' that is the same as udp except carries an extra bit to indicate whether the bearer is an idiot	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	atm, im blaming udp. and i would very much like to see it go away, right now.	[12:25]
asciilifeform	enjoy the syn floodz	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	leaving the entire pile of usg services in the lurch.	[12:26]
asciilifeform	so 'easy to filter' because ~no one is doing them~	[12:26]
asciilifeform	because presently no need.	[12:26]
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decimation	is this new udp-like protocol acceptable?	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	yes, im sure the idiots "writing software" and "deploying apps" will soon write more crud and deploy more crap	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	at which point we'll re-have this conversation.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	decimation for as long as no one uses it.	[12:26]
asciilifeform	realize that there can be no useful gossipd except with something like what is described above (i.e. udp but with protocol != 17)	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there can trivially be gossipd-over-blockchain.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	it'd bette rbe transport protocol agnostic.	[12:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what's on the cable ?	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	dragons.	[12:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if it's tcp, you are serving jam to folks for showing up	[12:28]
asciilifeform	because connection is stateful	[12:28]
asciilifeform	ergo - lose.	[12:28]
decimation	at any rate, the problem isn't udp or tcp, it's the fact that ip packets route without any signature	[12:28]
asciilifeform	no matter how many kilometres long your cock is, and how many cable spools it takes to hold it	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	decimation except he didn't like the fact yu gotta say where you're sending stuff "because usg snoops it"	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	i never comprehended the "anonimity" securityt posture, but whatever.	[12:29]
asciilifeform	i don't like the fact that i gotta say it in cleartext !	[12:29]
asciilifeform	not 'at all'	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	and how's third party gonna reads your codetext.	[12:29]
asciilifeform	third party gets to cry in the corner	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	so how does router know if to route ?	[12:29]
asciilifeform	router knows that it is routing a packet	[12:29]
asciilifeform	but not that said packet is part of a stream	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	to where ?	[12:30]
asciilifeform	(or what stream)	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	routing it to where!	[12:30]
asciilifeform	to destination.	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	no, because it can't check.	[12:30]
asciilifeform	yes, you need dest ip	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	...	[12:30]
decimation	^ need not be actual dest ip	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	sigh	[12:30]
asciilifeform	the part i'm objecting to is the sequence # thing	[12:30]
decimation	in fact, node could not have an actual ip at all	[12:30]
asciilifeform	and the multi-step connection opening	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	i get it, you want a woman that's transparent and doesn't bleed.	[12:30]
asciilifeform	i ~have one~	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	"onmly way to have gossipd"	[12:30]
asciilifeform	her name is udp with rsa payload.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	with procol # != 17 because mircea_popescu hates 17	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	mkay. i wouldn't be too worried about her fate - it'd cost usg more than it'd cost me to ditch udp.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	(my isp won't like != 17 either. i will have to send these packets to mircea_popescu by camel.)	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	you can send them via dpaste for all the difference it makes.	[12:32]
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*	mircea_popescu wonders if he's the only one that remembers the major spammer-ddos wars of a few years ago.	[12:34]
jurov	were they reolved by banning a protocol?	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	essentially, yes.	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	it's where all this "ban udp" talk actually started.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	but yes, it was practically shown that a) no actual protection from ddos exists, outside of the ostrich method discussed above and b) udp is the key to this state of affairs.	[12:36]
decimation	umm, 'access-list deny udp any any' on your subnet?	[12:37]
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mircea_popescu	https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2013/03/28/massive-ddos-attack-against-anti-spam-provider-impacts-millions-of-internet-users/	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	reference.	[12:38]
assbot	Massive DDoS attack against anti-spam provider impacts millions of internet users \| Naked Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ib3UtB )	[12:38]
mircea_popescu	for they reading the logs not in the cabal.	[12:38]
asciilifeform	i'm still waiting, incidentally, for mircea_popescu to tell me how to set the pogo clock without ntp	[12:40]
asciilifeform	that would be a major scientific advance	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	no.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	i don't solve problems. i just throw away other people's solutions.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	much like i don't make kids, the women make kids. i just kill some of the kids they make.	[12:41]
asciilifeform	i get it, this is most fun sport in the world	[12:41]
asciilifeform	until you drown in unsolved.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[12:41]
asciilifeform	i'd love nothing more than for martians to fly over and shoot with disintegrator beam every single x86 box	[12:41]
asciilifeform	and every single arm cpu	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	let's start with something small.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	this is, if anything, even more batshit than what mircea_popescu asked for	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	like fucking udp.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	after which we get to write gossipd with tcp syn instead of udp	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	or dpaste.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	dpaste over pigeon ?	[12:42]
asciilifeform	srsly the pipe has to go through your wall	[12:43]
asciilifeform	same as mine	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	dpaste over alles!	[12:43]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	OK, thanks Chester for the clear explanation.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	Now, how can I verify my Windows 2008 domain server (with Sophos EndPoint Security) is configured correctly?	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	fucking hell.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	~WITH SOPHOS END POINT SECURITY~ dontcha know.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	why are these things on the internet ? i do not wish anything to do with any of them.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	brandheads.	[12:46]
jurov	they don't want anything to do either.	[12:46]
jurov	they want just buy and click	[12:46]
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mircea_popescu	right.	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the only way to solve this problem is of course ppp, ie pay per packet. and the only way to even run an internet at all is as a blockchain, which is to say mempool and all that.	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	but this may take a while.	[12:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29050 @ 0.00053864 = 15.6475 BTC [-]	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work.	[12:54]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 03:59:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217395 << if i have to ship a bootable linux iso, buildrooted for the purpose of building a) self b) bitcoin - i will. in fact, yes, i have this up my sleeve, BUT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TO USE IT instead of retarduntu etc	[12:54]
trinque	the rotor problem mod6 and I ran into was simple as can be	[12:55]
trinque	just one of those "right knob" things	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	^ top thing i hate about linux.	[12:56]
trinque	seems like db's config script had environment data leaking into it from the underlying host	[12:56]
trinque	mircea_popescu: yup	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217553 << word.	[12:57]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 04:13:58; mod6: rotolinux sounds awesome btw.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217570 << fun fact : the ennumeration of all people ~alive today~ would far exceed 9gb. degree of magnitude +.	[12:58]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 04:16:03; asciilifeform: there ARE NOT 9 GB of useful src	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, in the entire history of human thought there have not been produced 9, or for that matter 1 gb worth recording.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	this includes all software.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	if anyone wishes to compare crap and oranges...	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	there's way too many people for the salt they pay.	[12:58]
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phf	using linux kernel as the base allows for rapid repurposing of cheap chinese computers, without having to write drive controllers or general kernel hackery. in case of suckless it was probably more to do with audiocards and inertia. at the time when the suckless project started, it wasn't yet obvious how compromised kernel will eventually become, the reaction was mostly to userspace retardation	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	phf how long have you spent reading the logs ?	[13:00]
phf	mircea_popescu: 2014-03-27	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	dude check it out, the year gets experimental verification.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	;;rated phf	[13:01]
gribble	You have not yet rated user phf	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	!rate phf 1 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.	[13:02]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/33b3a0ee64f2338d	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.1:039ae78c7128555ebad588f79c7dc7edd0087e763c49d7b6a7dd0165e1fbbc08	[13:02]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.	[13:02]
phf	moving on... down? :)	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	down ?	[13:03]
kakobrekla	you are mixing the two wots	[13:03]
kakobrekla	You have not yet rated user phf < notice gribble	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	i'm so confused	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	ohhhh	[13:04]
kakobrekla	assbot> Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 < assbot	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	fuck. sorry.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	!rate phf 2 Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.	[13:04]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/8c3c7740eb1f5933	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.2:6cea324aa2207bd1d76e587be3036b547021756929f56d01002638c3c027b975	[13:05]
assbot	Successfully updated the rating for phf from 1 to 2 with note: Well read gent in search of a handler. Bureaucrats and mustachioed young ladies apply within.	[13:05]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217700 << o.O you hawk you!	[13:10]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 11:39:38; BingoBoingo: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217706 << wait, what ?	[13:10]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 12:13:43; jurov: every time i asked how, eventually it boiled down to depend on retroactivity	[13:10]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is	[13:11]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 12:19:55; shinohai: It's interesting to think about. I just like the summary of Christianity - which, because I live in that "One Nation under GAWD" I get rather sick of hearing the masses go on about.	[13:11]
mod6	;;later tell hanbot check msg	[13:15]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[13:15]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00053864 = 6.8407 BTC [-]	[13:18]
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mircea_popescu	!up Michail	[13:22]
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jurov	lol don't act surprised http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-07-26.log.html#t10:06:45	[13:29]
assbot	#Eulora log for Sunday, 2015-07-26 ... ( http://bit.ly/1IugffV )	[13:29]
jurov	mp: "kids must be culled properly" me: "i'd be culled easily" mp:"then these thought you were retarded should have been culled"	[13:30]
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jurov	how this does not depend on hidsight...	[13:34]
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jurov	http://imgur.com/pR356Rc woooo	[13:36]
assbot	Is Windows 10 a botnet? Summary of things that spy on you in W10. - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuhbRx )	[13:36]
trinque	if it's free, you're the product!!	[13:37]
trinque	jurov: as for the culling, wouldn't that be up to the parents that clearly decided to let you live? heh	[13:37]
trinque	and if they don't have the luxury of making that decision, shrug	[13:38]
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trinque	absent a giant safety net, life itself will do the culling	[13:39]
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trinque	!up ascii_field	[13:40]
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trinque	!up elgrecoFL	[13:40]
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ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218261 << depends, what means 'work' ?	[13:44]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 15:50:59; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217498 << i'd have no problem deplyoing it were it to actually work.	[13:44]
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ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218311 << on one hand, jurov has it. on other, answer to 'flood of meat' is better selection criteria, rather than 'every sperm is precious' (tm) (r)	[13:48]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 16:31:35; jurov: how this does not depend on hidsight...	[13:48]
ascii_field	on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so	[13:49]
*	danielpbarron too	[13:51]
jurov	lol	[13:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107152 @ 0.00054404 = 58.295 BTC [+]	[13:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00053864 = 10.6381 BTC [-]	[14:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139700 @ 0.00053019 = 74.0675 BTC [-] {4}	[14:55]
funkenstein_	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218023 <-- despite Shannon's complete description of communication in propagation, it seems the details of protocols, sources/sinks of information in various forms, are still totally open	[14:58]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 14:36:04; asciilifeform: they would much rather that everyone announce, for usg's ease of snoopage, when they are beginning to speak, and to whom, for how long, which order the bytes lay down in.	[14:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105250 @ 0.00052081 = 54.8153 BTC [-] {4}	[15:15]
jurov	funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog	[15:17]
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trinque	ascii_field \| on third hand coming out of alien chest, i readily recognize that i probably ought to have been killed at age 7 or so << plenty of intelligent people had all kinds of health problems; surely there are reasons other than "fit as a viking" to live	[15:22]
trinque	as for myself, I was more dead than alive when I plopped into this world, so this is all bonus time	[15:22]
funkenstein_	jurov, at some layer, they must be analog right?	[15:22]
jurov	ofc but it's not accessible to you	[15:22]
funkenstein_	i'm about to buy a SDR ham radio kit	[15:23]
funkenstein_	thinking to go with bladeRF	[15:24]
jurov	will it enable yo to make analog channel to arbitrary ip adddress? i'm all ears :D	[15:24]
funkenstein_	we need full stack IP over aether	[15:24]
jurov	you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon	[15:25]
funkenstein_	end to end encrypt by default	[15:25]
funkenstein_	lol	[15:25]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:25]
funkenstein_	i don't think DDOS is going away	[15:25]
ascii_field	trinque: i wasn't even speaking of health per se	[15:27]
ascii_field	just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu	[15:27]
ascii_field	funkenstein_ et al: the basic quandry is that communication channels are scarce and very crowded.	[15:29]
kakobrekla	because of the 80 vhs tapes?	[15:29]
funkenstein_	cocktail party	[15:29]
trinque	ascii_field: well shit, how many do?	[15:29]
ascii_field	the only solutions fall into the broad categories of 'moar channel' or 'less meat'	[15:29]
ascii_field	like any other famine.	[15:29]
funkenstein_	specific-to-source orthogonal waveforms	[15:29]
ascii_field	crack a textbook	[15:30]
funkenstein_	well lately it's been going along the lines of you name them and I order them	[15:30]
ascii_field	r. feynman., 'lectures on physics', vol. 1-3.	[15:31]
ascii_field	or if you're a l333337 d00d, landau & lifschitz vol. 1-5	[15:32]
ascii_field	through 8 rather.	[15:32]
funkenstein_	no we're talking, i would say best texts ever	[15:32]
funkenstein_	though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail	[15:32]
funkenstein_	anyway it appears we all share that kind of background	[15:32]
funkenstein_	but I am curious the specifics	[15:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26600 @ 0.0005381 = 14.3135 BTC [+]	[15:34]
funkenstein_	enjoyed recent thread: GSM et al.	[15:34]
funkenstein_	i should probably go read IEEE 802 specs	[15:34]
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ascii_field	the subject of why every bag of meat on this sorry rock can't have own radio station, to any useful degree, 'will not fit in the margins of this page' unfortunately.	[15:34]
funkenstein_	plenty of aether to go around, i think we just don't know how to use it yet	[15:34]
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funkenstein_	http://www.brainfacts.org/Sensing-Thinking-Behaving/Awareness-and-Attention/Articles/2013/The-Cocktail-Party-Problem	[15:42]
shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218302 <<< I'll make an exception in your case danielpbarron, because not once have you told me "shinohai, you gonna FRY!"	[15:43]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 16:08:35; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217709 << the masses do not know what christianity is	[15:43]
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funkenstein_	the masses do not know what mass is	[15:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61300 @ 0.00051262 = 31.4236 BTC [-] {3}	[15:48]
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trinque	shinohai: hail satan!	[15:52]
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trinque	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzjshF0TFm8 << some music to corrupt your soul	[15:55]
assbot	AT THE GATES - Death And The Labyrinth (OFFICIAL VIDEO) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DSXhdx )	[15:55]
kakobrekla	i can hardly understand what the guy is trying to sing to me.	[15:56]
trinque	something something killing people in a labyrinth, evil is basically a weird art project, something something	[16:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60482 @ 0.0005381 = 32.5454 BTC [+] {2}	[16:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33050 @ 0.00053849 = 17.7971 BTC [+]	[16:10]
shinohai	trinque: I do regularly mumble prayers in public to Satan, when fundamentalists ruin my meal by trying to pray loudly over their food for 30 minutes.	[16:13]
trinque	shinohai: raised religious?	[16:13]
trinque	I suspect that's why the satan schtick amuses me so	[16:13]
shinohai	Yes, a cult	[16:13]
trinque	that'll do it!	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	jurov just because you posit there's going to be retrospection needed doesn't mean it's either necessarily so or what i said, you know.	[16:14]
trinque	shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w37V5IOfQlI << another good one in that vein	[16:15]
assbot	Mors principium est-bringer of light - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT162q )	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	* danielpbarron too << maybe solution then is ask 7 yo kid if they should be killed and do the opposite.	[16:15]
shinohai	Considering they believe the world is going to end and there is no need for any sort of secular education, it is a wonder I can read at all.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	what do the fuckwits know.	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	you haven't heard? mp will ban it soon << all stacks must wear burka!	[16:16]
shinohai	And I love Mors Principum Est, I'm OG and like Slayer tho	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field just the fact that it was probably determinable with great certainty at age 7 or so that i wouldn't grow up to be mircea_popescu << you think anyone actually wants more of me around ?	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	"ajunge un bat la un car de oale."	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	shinohai what's og.	[16:18]
trinque	shinohai: old metal does me just fine too, gotta know the greats	[16:18]
shinohai	Original Gangsta	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	though I can't claim to have gone through all of them in great detail << o.O so then what have you done ?	[16:18]
shinohai	But, yeah. I dunno how many copies of Led Zeppelin albums my parents burned when I was a kid.	[16:19]
jurov	https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11760247_10153571490573982_7194971534506656776_n.jpg?oh=53007a0adf39e0cd1a8d16035dc19388&oe=563C0E16 << pic related	[16:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1IuGtij )	[16:19]
trinque	shinohai: heh! I got busted for tom petty once, of all things. told my mom "you could stand me up at the gates of hell, but I wont back down"	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	lol	[16:20]
funkenstein_	mircea_popescu, good question. i spent a lot of time with the fluid mechanics volume back in the day.	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	poor woman.	[16:20]
shinohai	Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum	[16:20]
shinohai	or The Name of The Rose	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	whahaha	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	poor kid.	[16:20]
shinohai	Tom Petty? Jesus F'in Christ	[16:20]
trinque	hilarity of it is I think the guy's a born again himself	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	so did you give them madonna's "sex" for their 15th aniversary ?	[16:21]
trinque	haha, I don't torture the poor folks anymore, keep my heathen ways to myself	[16:22]
trinque	they at least knew the whole world was filled with shit, just weren't sure what kind	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	this is a point.	[16:22]
shinohai	I moved away and never looked back. Haven't spoken to anyone in my family in almost 20 years.	[16:22]
trinque	I have a great relationship with them; they spend all day trying to not suck, and good for them	[16:23]
trinque	they just missed	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	interesting. i see both angles.	[16:23]
shinohai	I imagine mine are still sitting around waiting for the world to end, and trying to force-feed as much of that nonsense to others as possible.	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/8fbe0005e45f6bc64efc4ca034b46249/tumblr_n0jownfewq1si2s09o1_1280.jpg	[16:26]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DT2OAE )	[16:26]
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shinohai	The scan checks out mircea_popescu	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	hm?	[16:27]
shinohai	The barcode above the woman's vag	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	oh. lol.	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	shinohai you gonna FRAY!	[16:28]
shinohai	Just call me crispy then.	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	(btw, the vagina is the internal part. that's a vulva)	[16:29]
shinohai	Well if the vag is internal, and the barcode is on top of that, technically it is above.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	i guess so huh	[16:30]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[16:30]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:30]
shinohai	102 F ... damn it's hot. Time to blend up some margaritas or something.	[16:32]
shinohai	May as well drink before Kim eliminates me: http://english.pravda.ru/news/world/30-07-2015/131527-kim-0/	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	Kim said the contest was intended to "bring about a radical turn in the drills to round off preparations for a war full of the will to settle with arms accounts with the U.S. imperialists, the chieftain of aggression, and the South Korean puppet group keen to escalate the confrontation with the fellow countrymen and that of social systems, seized with sycophancy toward the U.S.,"	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	such a bizarre phrase structure they use by now	[16:37]
ascii_field	pravda ought to fire their translator	[16:37]
*	ColinT2 (~ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	"Gone forever is the era when the United States blackmailed us with nukes; now the United States is no longer a source of threat and fear for us and we are the very source of fear for it."	[16:38]
ascii_field	'Напомним, Правда. Ру вчера сообщала о выступлении посла Северной Кореи в РФ Ким Хен Чжуна, который заявил, что его страна не намерена следовать примеру Ирана и идти на переговоры с Западом на предмет сокращения своей ядерной програм	[16:38]
ascii_field	мы. Вместо этого, Пхеньян активно готовится к ядерному противостоянию, так как страна подвергается давлению с целью переворота в стране, так как США участили свои учения с вооруженными силами Южной Кореи.'	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	is it a bad thing that i find him more amusing than the run of the mill usg "comedian" ?	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	what's general snipes say	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	(of nato)	[16:38]
shinohai	Between him and the Iranian female ninjas, I am starting to quake in my shoes.	[16:39]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field original reads a lot better.	[16:40]
mircea_popescu	anyway, obviously unlike iran they won't cut a deal.	[16:40]
ascii_field	roughly: 'let us remind, yesterday, pravda.ru yesterday described the speech of the ambassador of north kr, kim hen jeon, who pronounced that his country will not follow the example of iran and go into talks with the west re: nuclear disarmament. instead, pyongyang will actively prepare for a nuclear tension, given the fact that usa is increasing its involvement with training of the south kr army.'	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	unlike iran, nobody is offering them one.	[16:41]
ascii_field	why offer what will not be taken.	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field "standoff", neh ?	[16:41]
ascii_field	aha	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	oh, they'd take.	[16:41]
mircea_popescu	offer them what iran got, what cuba got, they'll take it.	[16:41]
*	ColinT has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[16:41]
ascii_field	anyway this is poppycock, north kr is controlled with rice, not nukes	[16:41]
ascii_field	(from the west)	[16:41]
trinque	strikes me as nothing more than internal politics	[16:43]
trinque	the language is always "prepared" to fight	[16:43]
trinque	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW2xyXl2tTI	[16:44]
assbot	Preparing... - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuK2VU )	[16:44]
ascii_field	trinque: virtually everything printed in english re: north kr is a bold-faced lie out of the mouth of south kr	[16:45]
trinque	probably so	[16:46]
trinque	http://thediplomat.com/2015/06/its-official-china-south-korea-sign-free-trade-agreement/ << does not appear that china gives half a shit what nk wants	[16:46]
assbot	It’s Official: China, South Korea Sign Free Trade Agreement \| The Diplomat ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuKjYM )	[16:46]
trinque	and that's probably the opinion that matters most	[16:46]
ascii_field	how many people know, for instance, that south started the kr war ?	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	erryone ?	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	btw, re notable italians : http://trilema.com/2011/italo-calvino/	[16:47]
assbot	Italo Calvino on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT6uCz )	[16:47]
ascii_field	or that north was an industrial giant, heavy on the machinery market, until blockaded by usa and its muppets ?	[16:47]
ascii_field	but yes, they are in 'hitler's bunker' mode	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field and italy was an empire and spain was an empire and what else.	[16:48]
ascii_field	hence the stories being ~believable~	[16:48]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: except that italy and spain did not get history-edited	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	orly.	[16:49]
ascii_field	aha, even f-students know that they were once empires.	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	ask any muppet today, he thinks europe is christian and christian values fundamentally european.	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	hollow word.	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	they do not know what that meant.	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	might as well say "any kid today knows nkr is <>".	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	big whop	[16:50]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu ought to contact his supplier and have a stern talk re: getting a higher grade of muppet shipped in	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	wouldn't that be a shittier muppet ?	[16:50]
ascii_field	not necessarily	[16:51]
shinohai	Same in America, blabbering about how this nation was specifically founded on Christian principles, without ever bothering to read the treaty of Tripoli.	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	shinohai ironically, the us was founded on sectarian neoprotestantism alright.	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, so was england, at about the same time. diff flavour.	[16:52]
shinohai	I honestly have no issues with those that do choose to practice religion, just respect the fact that some don't.	[16:53]
trinque	I prefer most do have some form of mind control installed.	[16:53]
trinque	look what happens otherwise?	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	well... honestly, if one takes the stand that mcd is not really food, that same one'd be hard pressed to count neoprotestant lols as religion.	[16:54]
trinque	;;later tell pete_dushenski let me go ahead and eat my words re: desert gods now	[16:54]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:54]
ascii_field	'i prefer that the planet exert a gravitational pull. look what happens otherwise'	[16:54]
ascii_field	look where ?	[16:54]
*	shinohai gift wraps a copy of LeVay's Satanic Bible, sends it to trinque	[16:54]
trinque	heh I've read some of that stuff	[16:55]
trinque	it's like Ayn Rand with candles	[16:55]
shinohai	LOL	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	bwahaha	[16:55]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[17:00]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:01]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[17:03]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:03]
ascii_field	http://wiki.minix3.org/doku.php?id=www:download:start << 300 M !!! i withdraw my recommendation of 'minix'	[17:04]
assbot	www:download:start [Wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9EpT )	[17:04]
ascii_field	it was coopted.	[17:04]
ascii_field	and authors find it necessary to lie, e.g.,	[17:05]
ascii_field	'In monolithic operating systems, a driver can write to any word of memory and thus accidentally trash user programs. In MINIX 3, when a user expects data from, for example, the file system, it builds a descriptor telling who has access and at what addresses. It then passes an index to this descriptor to the file system, which may pass it to a driver. The file system or driver then asks the kernel to write via the	[17:05]
ascii_field	descriptor, making it impossible for them to write to addresses outside the buffer.'	[17:05]
ascii_field	^ trivially disproved	[17:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054279 = 18.0749 BTC [+]	[17:05]
ascii_field	i can ask, e.g., a nic, to read or write arbitrary word in ram	[17:05]
ascii_field	(if i can access the nic at all from the machine end)	[17:05]
shinohai	"We just launched and are all excited, but one caveat. Transactions don't work."	[17:06]
shinohai	https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/3f6f1r/reminder_the_block_gas_limit_is_currently_5000_so/	[17:06]
assbot	REMINDER: the block gas limit is currently 5000, so it is not possible to send transactions. We will release an update in a couple days to cause miners to "vote" the gas limit upwards at which point the full blockchain functionality will be de-facto enabled. : ethereum ... ( http://bit.ly/1DT9ZJ5 )	[17:06]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:07]
shinohai	Gas limit indeed. Whole project is hot gas.	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	amusingly enough, nobody yet bought the shorts	[17:09]
mircea_popescu	what was it, a year ? 16 months ?	[17:09]
ascii_field	nobody needed to	[17:09]
Michail1	midnightmagic mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mitzip mius mixdio	[17:09]
mircea_popescu	!s from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin	[17:09]
assbot	5 results for 'from:mircea_popescu ethereum bitcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+ethereum+bitcoin	[17:09]
ascii_field	buterin & co just got $2M from usg.	[17:09]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-07-2014#764480	[17:10]
assbot	Logged on 22-07-2014 22:53:40; mircea_popescu: ;;sell 5000 "ethereum coins deliverable March 15th, 2014" for 1 BTC.	[17:10]
mircea_popescu	lolz.	[17:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70769 @ 0.00053752 = 38.0398 BTC [-] {3}	[17:13]
*	Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus)	[17:14]
shinohai	How did they manage to get $2 mil in funding ?	[17:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56550 @ 0.00053753 = 30.3973 BTC [+] {2}	[17:14]
ascii_field	shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2015#1214392	[17:14]
assbot	Logged on 27-07-2015 23:27:09; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu ^ https://archive.is/2ZiCQ	[17:14]
kakobrekla	katz did it too.	[17:14]
kakobrekla	oh this is about the same thing.	[17:15]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[17:15]
kakobrekla	it doesnt mention butterin	[17:15]
assbot	The future of Bitcoin regulation on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IuOLXs )	[17:15]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: see mircea_popescu's post re: elaine shi & co.	[17:15]
kakobrekla	yeah i better shutup as im always behind.	[17:15]
shinohai	I think I'll sign up for that. My innovative new currency is "mined" by wiping 1 square of tissue across my ballsack for 30 seconds.	[17:16]
ascii_field	kakobrekla: she and her fuckbuddy oversee a university lab where slave labour (grad students) work (or pretend to) on 'ethereum'	[17:16]
kakobrekla	nice	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	lawl. actually hanbot & shinohai the stuff's quite well related. sv knows how to do one thing, the whole "make a market out of a trillion shitheads and sell them sheep olives for quarter pennies". and usg lives in this delusional alt-reality where it is enough for it to say, and things happen.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	both these got a little crashed, and yes i'm going to bleed the living life out of the entire set of derp shartups, and yes it can say until it falls over.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	but hey. until that day, every wooden cutout's a soldier.	[17:17]
shinohai	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army	[17:17]
assbot	Terracotta Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DTbWoT )	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field you will notice, if inclined to notice, the distress manifest in the reduction of funding.	[17:18]
ascii_field	reduction ?!	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	coinbase can live on no 2 million.	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	last year it was, "tens of millions". merely not jumping to hundred this year = fail	[17:19]
ascii_field	coinbase no, 2 uni profs - sure	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	but in fact it withered to a coupla, and doled out through the university program.	[17:19]
ascii_field	that 2m is ~just~ for that particular sc4ml4b	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	2 uni profs aren't a threat to the fucking mice in their own lab.	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	it's scaling down, and painfully so.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	the 2016 usg line re bitcoin will be that "never happened, not important, uninteresting"	[17:20]
ascii_field	wake me up when they can't afford to mine spamblox any moar.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	much like the olympics they can't aford.	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	"it has problems, can't deliver on customer expectations, etc". you see the seeds in the amazon recent lol/	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	"bitcoin has problems that our system sucks"	[17:21]
ascii_field	yes, there is a ministry of usg that occupies itself with finding nails for the microscope to pound in, badly	[17:22]
ascii_field	but it is not the only ministry	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	the sv ministry got raped a little.	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	the agitprop ministry got raped a little.	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	there's really not that many.	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	anyway, be that as it may, i	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	've never had this much fun in my life!	[17:23]
ascii_field	on a not entirely unrelated note, incitatus has been steadily ~100 blocks behind	[17:24]
ascii_field	for the last week or so, after (briefly) fully synced	[17:24]
ascii_field	the ministry of dropped packets is doing well.	[17:25]
trinque	which reminds me, my rotor instance chewed up its db when a drive's usb cable disconnected	[17:25]
trinque	and berkdb claims its a db?	[17:25]
ascii_field	trinque: this is not specific to rotor !!	[17:25]
trinque	course not	[17:25]
trinque	I know that	[17:25]
trinque	I'm going to restart it from the beginning	[17:26]
ascii_field	trinque: and go, unplug the disk of, e.g., a postgres	[17:26]
trinque	but it's a place for obvious improvement	[17:26]
ascii_field	you'll be surprised.	[17:26]
trinque	ascii_field: would not do this	[17:26]
trinque	write ahead log is for that	[17:26]
ascii_field	again, you'll be surprised.	[17:26]
trinque	as always, it depends	[17:26]
trinque	but I bet postgresql would win on balance	[17:26]
trinque	it's not an unsolvable problem to just hack off the frayed bit and begin again from there	[17:27]
ascii_field	trinque: you speak as if this thing didn't eat enough ram and weren't slow enough	[17:27]
ascii_field	now we also need a tcp crud pipe for every access to the blockchain ????!!	[17:27]
trinque	atomicity of writes would be nice.	[17:28]
trinque	how, a fine thing to think about	[17:28]
ascii_field	easy	[17:28]
ascii_field	keep all blocks in antifuse rom	[17:29]
ascii_field	n+1 bits per block, with the last one signifying 'finalized'	[17:29]
ascii_field	blow the last bit when 0...n represent valid block.	[17:29]
trinque	there, that's an awesome idea.	[17:30]
*	tcrypt (~tylersmit@173.247.206.110) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:30]
ascii_field	now go buy a silicon fab so that antifuse rom gets produced again.	[17:31]
ascii_field	it is - afaik - EXTINCT today	[17:31]
*	trinque turns the death metal on again, fitting as it is	[17:31]
ascii_field	the 'otp' chips sold currently are a FRAUD - eeproms with black epoxy instead of window !!	[17:31]
ascii_field	*eproms	[17:31]
phf	well block*.dat are essentially append only, the idea can be emulated by having transaction bits. you write a t bit, you write rest of block, when done flip t bit. on restart you walk backwards until the first flipped bit and you file truncate anything from that point on	[17:33]
ascii_field	nothing on a pc is 'append only' !	[17:33]
ascii_field	with possible exception of 'cd-r'	[17:33]
trinque	what he describes is effectively a wal log, what's wrong with it?	[17:33]
trinque	bleh, *wal, I mean	[17:33]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:34]
trinque	!up ascii_field	[17:34]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:34]
ascii_field	!s protocol vs promise	[17:34]
assbot	2 results for 'protocol vs promise' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=protocol+vs+promise	[17:34]
ascii_field	there is an important difference between 'x will not happen because i promise not to stick it in that hole, really' and 'x cannot happen because physics'	[17:34]
ascii_field	and yes, people have occasionally been mistaken about physics	[17:35]
trinque	fair point, yet that means no atomicity til bitcoin has its very own hardware arch	[17:35]
trinque	maybe that's called for here	[17:35]
ascii_field	but in virtually every case known, it was really a case of 'i won't go in that hole, promise'	[17:35]
ascii_field	trinque: i was pointing out that you need a relatively minor (from r&d standpoint) device, that was ~once available~ and isn't today.	[17:36]
ascii_field	pertinent story:	[17:36]
ascii_field	i was once a sysadmin, for a spell	[17:37]
ascii_field	and we have a then-popular tape robot	[17:37]
ascii_field	the docs mentioned that one could buy 'write-once tapes', for usg regulatory compliance	[17:37]
ascii_field	this piqued my curiosity and i inquired to the vendor, how, precisely, does one make a write-once magnetic tape ?!!	[17:37]
ascii_field	was told that it is ordinary tape. but with a magic hole in the cartridge - like old floppy disk	[17:38]
ascii_field	that the drive would obey.	[17:38]
ascii_field	nearly fell down laughing	[17:38]
ascii_field	a fifty-cent magnet will 'rewrite' happily, these magical 'write once' tapes.	[17:38]
shinohai	"magic hole"?!	[17:38]
ascii_field	as will the tape deck and a piece of 'scotch'	[17:38]
ascii_field	shinohai: yes, like 3 inch 'floppy'	[17:39]
ascii_field	anyway, this is 'promise'	[17:39]
ascii_field	'protocol' is when you can't rewrite because you can't unburn a hole.	[17:39]
ascii_field	(though still have to be careful because enemy can make holes in any place where you had not)	[17:39]
trinque	amazing how bitcoin drastically increases the requirements on rigor and correctness	[17:41]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[17:41]
trinque	ty assbot	[17:41]
ascii_field	trinque: in precisely the same way that abdominal surgery increases required standard of hygiene	[17:41]
phf	pray mr babbage	[17:41]
kakobrekla	maybe that's called for here < actually its called for in many other places, you still dont get it.	[17:41]
ascii_field	^^^	[17:42]
trinque	I get it just fine.	[17:42]
kakobrekla	where?	[17:42]
kakobrekla	get the hardware i meant.	[17:42]
trinque	chewing up a database on disk is a fine way to run afoul of the "I do not have the correct blockchain problem" the whole piece of software by its very purpose tries to avoid.	[17:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52750 @ 0.00054108 = 28.542 BTC [+]	[17:43]
trinque	and while you're fabbing hardware, might want to keep the integrity of the thing in the meantime	[17:43]
trinque	kakobrekla: ah I got ya	[17:43]
trinque	but then to continue in that vein, I do see how trying endless mitigations is a death by a thousand cuts.	[17:44]
ascii_field	none of this is hard to make.	[17:44]
ascii_field	in the sense that 'cold fusion' or elixir of immortality is	[17:44]
trinque	sure, just needs a business case that works like anything	[17:45]
ascii_field	we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium	[17:45]
*	peterl (602a8b2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.42.139.42) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:46]
trinque	ascii_field: tactically speaking, supposing there just isn't time for antifuse rom?	[17:48]
ascii_field	??	[17:48]
trinque	or	[17:48]
ascii_field	what means, 'isn't time'	[17:48]
trinque	or are we already in a position where things like the blocksize limit debate are moot	[17:49]
trinque	I took that to be one of the reasons to take over development of bitcoind	[17:49]
ascii_field	the reason to remove machine gun from the hands of a demented anal child is not necessarily that you need the thing for anything.	[17:50]
ascii_field	trinque: i'll repeat the question - what is the meaning of 'isn't time' here ?	[17:51]
trinque	#up peterl	[17:52]
trinque	!up peterl	[17:52]
*	assbot gives voice to peterl	[17:52]
peterl	thanks, trinque	[17:52]
trinque	yw	[17:52]
peterl	btw, I alrways read your name like it rhymes with drink, is this right?	[17:52]
trinque	that's how I say it, yep	[17:53]
trinque	ascii_field: supposing the network goes the way of the gavins	[17:53]
trinque	but in that case I suppose "let em fork" ?	[17:53]
ascii_field	there is no 'the network'	[17:53]
trinque	better to get bitcoind right?	[17:53]
ascii_field	there is the gavins, and there is the actual people.	[17:53]
ascii_field	it's that simple.	[17:53]
*	shinohai is glas he discovered therealbitcoin	[17:54]
shinohai	*glad	[17:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47586 @ 0.00054108 = 25.7478 BTC [+]	[17:54]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:54]
trinque	I've taken the size of the network as one of the things ensuring its continued existence.	[17:54]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[17:55]
ascii_field	trinque: how ?	[17:55]
peterl	so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is still signed in.	[17:55]
trinque	ascii_field: the hashing power monopoly scenario; say it forks and there's nearly no hashing power on the side of therealbitcoind	[17:55]
ascii_field	trinque: then we switch workfunctions	[17:56]
ascii_field	trinque: say, the cellular automata apparatus i described last year	[17:56]
*	trinque goes to find the thread	[17:56]
ascii_field	understand, the thing can work while being used only by mircea_popescu and five other similar fellas to 'hawala' at each other.	[17:56]
pete_dushenski	;;seen BingoBoingo	[17:57]
gribble	BingoBoingo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 14 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: AH, I started reading it before scoopy found it	[17:57]
peterl	does it matter how much hashing pwer they have if it is pointed at the other side of a fork?	[17:57]
pete_dushenski	peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ is no more ?	[17:57]
pete_dushenski	wtf qntra. stop snarfing my shit. why you no like my cecil comment ?	[17:58]
peterl	hmm, yeah, I havn't had time to keep up with that, did you use it? I suppose I could resurect it?	[17:58]
pete_dushenski	i used it now and again	[17:58]
pete_dushenski	https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land	[18:00]
assbot	Bittrex.com - ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPBx95 )	[18:00]
shinohai	heh buttrex	[18:02]
pete_dushenski	eth up a solid 20x over ipo price for those (like saifedean) who threw a couple bucks at it and are ready to cash the fuck out.	[18:02]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218673 << anybody interesting ?	[18:02]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is still signed in.	[18:02]
peterl	no, just some derpy schmoe. I thought about sending funny emails to all his friends, but didn't.	[18:03]
pete_dushenski	!s desert god	[18:03]
assbot	1 results for 'desert god' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=desert+god	[18:03]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:04]
pete_dushenski	trinque refresh my memory perhaps ?	[18:04]
shinohai	!up ascii_field	[18:04]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:04]
trinque	pete_dushenski: it was in reference to the ISIS convo	[18:05]
shinohai	Be evil peterl and send emails to ISIS recruiters.	[18:05]
kakobrekla	a whole 8 buttcoin volume on that thin, is that all they got?	[18:05]
pete_dushenski	trinque silly me. of course.	[18:06]
trinque	above I spoke about being fond of my folks having the drive to "not suck"	[18:06]
peterl	I should have emailed the ISIS and cc'ed NSA?	[18:06]
trinque	regardless of it being derived from said desert god	[18:06]
shinohai	xD	[18:06]
trinque		[18:06]
*	trinque nearly drops his laptop...	[18:06]
pete_dushenski	kakobrekla that's buttrex trading engine at 9,000 rpm for ya.	[18:07]
pete_dushenski	makes bitstamp look like the chinese olympic games	[18:07]
*	chetty (~chet@unaffiliated/chetty) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:08]
trinque	until later gents	[18:08]
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pete_dushenski	trinque they do seem to have their place and their purpose.	[18:08]
pete_dushenski	cheers.	[18:08]
*	ascii_field (~ascii_fie@66-162-3-25.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:08]
pete_dushenski	peterl shoulda logged into your sr account	[18:09]
peterl	first I would have to make one	[18:09]
phf	ascii_field: is your argument then, on a higher level, if abstraction leaks it should not be introduced?	[18:11]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:11]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:11]
ascii_field	phf: no. if it leaks, should find the author and boil him in oil.	[18:11]
ascii_field	it is very helpful, and should be introduced, so that we know whom to boil in oil.	[18:12]
ascii_field	it is entirely possible to make abstractions which do not, in any meaningful sense, leak.	[18:13]
ascii_field	e.g., hardly anyone knows - or needs to know - what chemical process precisely it was that produced his cpu.	[18:13]
ascii_field	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55 << see also.	[18:14]
assbot	Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPCY7G )	[18:14]
shinohai	Heh i need to find those dumb dogecoins i have somewhere and cash 'em out for btc, i could use it.	[18:14]
phf	ascii_field: oh i wan't talking in the abstract, i was thinking in terms of prescriptive specifically when it comes to working on bitcoind	[18:14]
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ascii_field	phf: for so long as it runs on a consumer pc, it will exhibit the braindamage characteristic to the pc.	[18:15]
peterl	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217674 << why does everybody mention it was a dentist that killed the lion? Did a tooth extraction go horribly wrong?	[18:15]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 10:25:45; scoopbot_revived: Cecil the Lion is a Pretext for Expanding Extraterritoriality of US Law http://qntra.net/2015/07/cecil-the-lion-is-a-pretext-for-expanding-extraterritoriality-of-us-law/	[18:15]
ascii_field	such as losing bits when the mains current flickers	[18:15]
ascii_field	peterl: it is hidden 'class' outrage	[18:15]
ascii_field	'why is a dentist wealthy enough to go on safari ?!'	[18:16]
ascii_field	phinancier - a-ok	[18:16]
ascii_field	politico - a-ok	[18:16]
ascii_field	kill, eat the last panda, why not.	[18:16]
ascii_field	dentist?! atrocity.	[18:16]
shinohai	We should help preserve as many lions as possible, IMO. What else are we gonna feed all the Xstians to?	[18:17]
ascii_field	ocelots.	[18:17]
peterl	reminds me of http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1430626/ where the antagonists are a bunch of rich snobs who strive to eat the most rare species	[18:18]
assbot	Les Pirates! Bons à rien, mauvais en tout (2012) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1SPDhPG )	[18:18]
*	tripleslash (~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:18]
peterl	why did assbot get the title in french?	[18:18]
pete_dushenski	because kako's a socialist	[18:20]
phf	ascii_field: there's a lot of leaky abstractions in the current codebase, starting with "string" and "bignum". presumably the solution for those will be to port bitcoind to an architecture with tagged memory?	[18:20]
ascii_field	phf: aha.	[18:20]
ascii_field	phf: and if you know of these leaking in some meaningful sense, please say.	[18:21]
*	assbot removes voice from peterl	[18:22]
phf	ascii_field: so what's the difference between existing leaky abstractions that don't leak in some meaningful sense and the ones that we decide to introduce?	[18:26]
ascii_field	phf: please give more specific example ?	[18:27]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Comment rescued	[18:27]
phf	ascii_field: oh i'm still on the subject of wal logs	[18:27]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo cheers mate. i guess i'm in the spammer books or something	[18:28]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: You most likely used a spammy word combo. Or you lost your automatic approval browser cookie since your last comment.	[18:28]
ascii_field	phf: when you lose your keys, you may not know exactly where they are, but you can be very certain that they are not on the moon.	[18:28]
ascii_field	this is what it means for an abstraction not to leak.	[18:29]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo myeah. ah well. all better nao !	[18:29]
*	ben_vulpes is looking forward to digesting three days of megalog	[18:30]
*	SuchWow (~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:30]
ben_vulpes	!up SuchWow	[18:30]
*	assbot gives voice to SuchWow	[18:30]
ben_vulpes	how's the dogecoin?	[18:30]
SuchWow	lol	[18:31]
SuchWow	as always :)	[18:31]
SuchWow	kinda surprising how stable it's been	[18:31]
SuchWow	how's the bitcoin?	[18:31]
ben_vulpes	scam, as always	[18:31]
Adlai	kinda surprising how unstable it's been	[18:31]
SuchWow	any hot new bitcoin assets?	[18:33]
SuchWow	are there IPOs with bitcoin based stocks at all	[18:34]
Adlai	;;ident suchwow	[18:35]
gribble	Nick 'suchwow', with hostmask 'SuchWow!~SuchWow@unaffiliated/suchwow', is not identified.	[18:35]
SuchWow	I am just SuchWow, never cared for identing with anything other than nickserv	[18:38]
SuchWow	they do know me in #dogecoin tho, it's true. ;)	[18:38]
shinohai	If you aren't in WoT, you don't exist.	[18:39]
SuchWow	i like being invisible	[18:39]
asciilifeform	!down SuchWow	[18:39]
*	assbot removes voice from SuchWow	[18:39]
ascii_field	very invisible.	[18:39]
ascii_field	you're welcome, SuchWow	[18:39]
shinohai	ty ascii_field	[18:40]
phf	ascii_field: i'm having hard time understanding your point then. c++ on a von neumann machine leaks by protocol, so we either write against the guarantees of the underlying machine or not at all?	[18:40]
ascii_field	phf: c++ on x86 will be a turd, yes	[18:41]
ascii_field	and if phf read the logz, he knows that i am an opponent of maintaining the 0.5.3 thing into eternity.	[18:41]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:42]
phf	!up ascii_field	[18:42]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:42]
phf	huh, i actually forgot that. it was somewhere in the discussion about conformal implementation, "not written in wot"	[18:43]
ascii_field	phf: more of a 'written in proprietary turdlang'	[18:44]
ascii_field	but also, yes, non-wot	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field: we know how. but market does not want penicillin. it wants the normal cocktail of horseshit and opium << this sounds like it';d sell	[18:44]
ascii_field	sold great in usa!	[18:44]
ascii_field	1800-1920 roughly	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218673 << any good nudes ?	[18:46]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 20:52:13; peterl: so I go to use the computer at $LocalLibrary, sign into their winblows system, pull up gmail, and lo and behold the previous user is still signed in.	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218686 << obvious;ly thewir derpy web2.0 site doesn't load here. how much actual BTC could i get by shorting a billion eth atm, provided of course there were an actual market for the thing which behaved like a market and so i could do this ?	[18:48]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 20:57:05; pete_dushenski: https://bittrex.com/Market/Index?MarketName=BTC-ETC << big money movin' over in 2.0land	[18:48]
ascii_field	let's together visit the planet with the market-that-behaves-like-market	[18:49]
pete_dushenski	let's see, at 8 btc a day...	[18:49]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu can short eth there	[18:49]
ascii_field	and i will sell real cpu.	[18:49]
mircea_popescu	go there, come back with functioning hardware ?	[18:49]
kakobrekla	peterl because the end point of assbot url parser is in france. assbot is on another server, for obvious reasons.	[18:50]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu you'd be an even older old man by the time you went through a billion eth	[18:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91040 @ 0.00054297 = 49.432 BTC [+] {3}	[18:50]
kakobrekla	peterl and imdb wants to be 'smart'.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	no, seriously, what's the thing quoted at ?	[18:50]
pete_dushenski	0.01 btc/eth	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	ahahaah what!	[18:51]
pete_dushenski	pre-sale was 0.0005	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	anyone wanna buy some eth from me ?	[18:51]
ascii_field	http://www.dbit.com/index.html << in other nyooz, this exists.	[18:51]
assbot	D Bit Ersatz-11 PDP-11 emulator ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGFsF )	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski lol ? they claimed iirc something more like 0.001 which is whyt i was offering 5k for 1btc last year	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile they sold for 1/4 what i was offering ? "presale" , what's that, the web2.0 word for "fraud" ?	[18:52]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu pre-sale was 1337 - 2000 eth/btc, depending on timing	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 1/0.0005	[18:52]
gribble	2000	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	aha!	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	it's starting to come back to me.	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	so anyone wanna pay me 100 btc for 10k etc ?	[18:53]
pete_dushenski	http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/ << obligatory	[18:53]
assbot	A Guide To Buying 5000 Ether/Bitcoin, 2.5x More Than Ethereum’s Genesis Sale Offers \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1LTGPjz )	[18:53]
mircea_popescu	yeah. lulz of all time.	[18:54]
ascii_field	and that iso boots!	[18:55]
ascii_field	in 250 milliseconds (emulator), no less	[18:55]
ascii_field	damn.	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[18:55]
mircea_popescu	which ios this ?	[18:55]
shinohai	great article pete_dushenski	[19:04]
pete_dushenski	thanks man	[19:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34709 @ 0.00053363 = 18.5218 BTC [-] {3}	[19:04]
shinohai	I think I read somewhere that failed "social currency" reddcoin 's lead developer quit, after squandering all their IPCO funds, and now they are going to attempt round two.	[19:08]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: http://www.dbit.com/demo.html << it	[19:08]
assbot	Ersatz-11 Demo version ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDwdE2 )	[19:08]
ascii_field	i bet that fella sleeps ad libitum	[19:09]
ascii_field	and has a spiffy long grey beard.	[19:09]
ascii_field	no 'css' on that www !	[19:09]
ascii_field	that thing talks to modern nics, etc.	[19:11]
ascii_field	(from emulated pdp11)	[19:11]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:12]
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asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[19:19]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:19]
ascii_field	http://www.dbit.com/putr/putr.asm << he develops in asm, aha	[19:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KDxhrx )	[19:20]
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ascii_field	http://moneyandtech.com/mark-karpeles-agents-responsible-mt-gox-hack << lulz >> http://www.coindesk.com/report-tokyo-police-seeking-fraud-charges-against-mt-gox-ceo	[19:36]
assbot	Database Error ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdip )	[19:36]
assbot	Report: Police Seeking Criminal Charges Against Mt Gox CEO ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVdiz )	[19:36]
ascii_field	https://archive.is/YmBC8	[19:36]
assbot	Mark Karpeles: US Agents Might Be Responsible for Mt. Gox Hack \| Money & Tech ... ( http://bit.ly/1MwVhPb )	[19:36]
trinque	has king karp skipped tokyo yet?	[19:36]
trinque	holy shit, at least he said it aloud	[19:38]
decimation	<+jurov> funkenstein_: shannon would apply if the intertubes were analog < shannon applies to intertubes, as his theory applies to all tranmission of information - you must expend energy to communicate and there is no infinitely reliable channel	[19:39]
ascii_field	trinque: disappointing further down, where he accuses the sr investigator derps	[19:39]
ascii_field	rather than his actual handlers	[19:39]
ascii_field	(karpeles doesn't want to eat the nailgun yet, apparently)	[19:39]
trinque	too bad; he almost did something half-honorable	[19:40]
trinque	sr --> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044	[19:42]
assbot	Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.	[19:42]
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trinque	do they do anything else anymore, other than govt theater	[19:43]
trinque	this of course doesn't absolve gox of being grossly incompetent	[19:46]
trinque	but fascinating.	[19:46]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:50]
jurov	decimation: since you like to split hairs, does, say, does the noise distribution in your internet connection have a value you can use in shannon's theorem?	[19:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78156 @ 0.00052515 = 41.0436 BTC [-]	[19:52]
jurov	i'd say it does not, it's either almost noiseless or there's no connection at all	[19:52]
jurov	like arguing about newtonian physics in videogame	[19:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58122 @ 0.00053686 = 31.2034 BTC [+] {4}	[19:57]
*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:58]
BingoBoingo	Since scoop seems missing http://qntra.net/2015/07/karpeles-facing-charges-in-japan/	[19:58]
assbot	Karpeles Facing Charges in Japan? \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbH0lG )	[19:58]
pete_dushenski	;;later tell williamdunne bring back scoops !	[19:58]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[19:58]
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decimation	jurov: not so. plenty of packets would be lost if you attempted to spam me with udp, for instance	[20:16]
decimation	but at any rate, you can experiment yourself, dump large quantities of data from one machine to another. you will find a non-zero error rate eventually	[20:16]
decimation	it's quite low, but not infinitely so	[20:17]
decimation	I suppose I don't see a difference between analog and digital communication, even in principle	[20:17]
*	assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0	[20:17]
ag3nt_zer0	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217340 << general wesley snipes lol	[20:23]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 01:58:03; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217301 << the legal precedent is that if you're thye sort of guy that solves his own poroblems rather than seek the help of the state, you're a self-radicalizing terrorists and general wesley snipes of nato wants you in treblinka	[20:23]
BingoBoingo	https://gist.github.com/sipa/c65665fc360ca7a176a6 << lulz	[20:25]
assbot	Block size according to technological growth. · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbIM6k )	[20:25]
ag3nt_zer0	trinque: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1217349 << total agreement. that book I linked you to put it this way "If an idea is true, it belongs equally to all who are capable of understanding it." p.56 - did you ever get to that btw?	[20:34]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 02:15:56; trinque: I reject entirely the notion that concepts can be owned.	[20:34]
*	pete_dushenski has quit ()	[20:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 128000 @ 0.00052398 = 67.0694 BTC [-] {2}	[20:47]
BingoBoingo	So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm	[20:48]
ben_vulpes	y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have had good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espresso is only casi casi.	[20:52]
BingoBoingo	Not sources provided at http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/bitcoin-0.7.2/ are now out of sync with what I am actually running	[20:55]
assbot	Index of /bitcoin-0.7.2 ... ( http://bit.ly/1HQ4wEJ )	[20:55]
BingoBoingo	*Note	[20:55]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218870 << why did you do this, again...?	[20:57]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 23:45:27; BingoBoingo: So, killing ophanage helps to seriously cut bitcoin memory usage on 0.7.3 much as it does on 0.5.3... Also CPU usage much flatter when keeping up aside from new block CPU storm	[20:57]
asciilifeform	why not backport whatever it was you liked so much in 0.7 ??	[20:57]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: So I can learn and derp on systems other people aren't counting on	[20:58]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: nobody's counting on 0.5.3 last i knew...	[20:58]
asciilifeform	(except possibly for me, i moved my personal flagship to my bleeding tree; but i'm not a serious user of bitcoin)	[20:59]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218871 << none of the cups i had there tasted of burned diesel the way 'starbucks' mandatorily does.	[20:59]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 23:49:03; ben_vulpes: y'know, like everybody in, e.g., buenos aires, can << this is wild and unsubstantiated FUD. bad coffee is everywhere in ba, the argentines can't grow their own, and their braindead government won't let them import green beans in enough of a timely fashion to keep them from going stale or molding. i have had good cups of coffee there, but even in the nice places the espre	[20:59]
asciilifeform	this alone is enough for me.	[21:00]
BingoBoingo	It is hard to say what anyone counts on. It is also hard to say how well I actually understand the cpp I attempt a performance of reading. And so Imma keep chopping at this for a while to get more familiar with the code. main.cpp is already ~1000 loc shorter than 0.7.2 release, perhaps more. I figure Derp on 0.7, read 0.5.x and patches and maybe at some point I will understand	[21:02]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: imho, the problem is that the item you are becoming familiar with, has no future.	[21:03]
asciilifeform	it is taking up space in your head where you could, potentially, put something valuable.	[21:03]
BingoBoingo	Head has plenty of space. I drink to clear up plenty of useful space in head. Anyways chopping away on system I choose to depend on that no one else uses provides a serious incentive to not fuck up.	[21:05]
BingoBoingo	0.5.3 isn't much different from 0.7.2 really a lot of overlap. Mostly just more loc, but not too many differences yet in the ones they share. Most of the wild differences and cpp-isms enter in 0.8 and 0.9 and beyond	[21:06]
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trinque	ag3nt_zer0: began, then workload ate my free time for a bit, but it's still in my stack	[21:20]
*	TheRealJohnGalt (uid29986@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ehrbjgifknbkqenm) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:46]
BingoBoingo	https://www.yahoo.com/travel/man-sues-airline-says-fat-seatmate-caused-back-125462803042.html	[21:47]
assbot	Man Sues Airline — Says Fat Seatmate Caused Back Injury ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCB8I0 )	[21:47]
asciilifeform	;;later tell jurov would you please consider getting rid of the PILE OF SHIT appended to the filenames ?	[21:56]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[21:56]
asciilifeform	i believe that i am not alone in ragingly hating its fucking guts	[21:56]
BingoBoingo	http://www.itworld.com/article/2954835/oracle-preps-sonoma-chip-for-lowpriced-sparc-servers.html << possibly related to Elbrus revival	[21:57]
assbot	Oracle preps 'Sonoma' chip for low-priced Sparc servers \| ITworld ... ( http://bit.ly/1KDPTre )	[21:57]
asciilifeform	i don't see why i should EVER have to mv bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1_8a8d52a747f0b0bd5d7a2cce9d0938f1dd6e1239.tar.gz.sig bitcoin-v0_5_4-TEST1.tar.gz.sig	[21:57]
trinque	mmyeah that's pretty annoying	[21:57]
shinohai	I wondered about that myself, but just meh'd it off an mv	[21:58]
asciilifeform	i'm done 'mehing things off'	[21:58]
asciilifeform	this is how we end up buried in cement truck full of shit	[21:58]
asciilifeform	zero tolerance.	[21:58]
trinque	https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2009-July/066638.html	[21:59]
assbot	[Mailman-Users] Disable attachment scrubbing? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KCCwKF )	[21:59]
trinque	might be the thing	[22:00]
*	shovel_boss (~shovel_bo@unaffiliated/shovel-boss/x-4881665) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36956 @ 0.00053665 = 19.8324 BTC [+] {3}	[22:04]
shinohai	True dat, asciilifeform ... mod6 told me the same :/	[22:11]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i will point out that i have not been able to locate an elbrus, nor has, last i asked, mircea_popescu, nor anyone else i know	[22:12]
asciilifeform	if any were produced at all, they are being used in-house.	[22:12]
asciilifeform	like the last... 4 of'em	[22:12]
asciilifeform	not even golden, but monocrystalline diamond toilet.	[22:13]
BingoBoingo	That is likely. If any escape it may be that oracle wishes to kill the market for them.	[22:13]
BingoBoingo	With cheap USG sparc	[22:13]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: this is the one thing guaranteed not to happen	[22:13]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: given as the whole purpose of elbrus, to the extent it had one, is to be a non-nato computer	[22:14]
asciilifeform	suitable for use in, e.g., ru nukes	[22:14]
asciilifeform	thus it does not compete in any market where american product is present	[22:14]
BingoBoingo	Of course, but USG is rarely rational anymore.	[22:15]
asciilifeform	the hilarious part re: elbrus - given ~only~ the published material - is that it has standard chinese peripherals, on memory-mapped i/o...	[22:15]
asciilifeform	it's almost like no one is even ~trying~.	[22:16]
asciilifeform	https://cryptome.org/2015/07/wikileaks-stratfor-malware.htm << lulz	[22:16]
assbot	WikiLeaks Stratfor Emails Contain Malware	[22:16]
shinohai	I dunno why I feel such distaste fr Julian Assange, I have never been able to put a finger on it.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	because he's a usg tool ?	[22:17]
trinque	he certainly stinks of one.	[22:18]
asciilifeform	(to a first approximation, 'famous in usg media' ======= usg tool)	[22:18]
shinohai	lol	[22:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79354 @ 0.00052244 = 41.4577 BTC [-] {4}	[22:19]
shinohai	I jokingly said that perhaps he and Edward Snowden were gay lovers on reddit once, and almost got tarred and feathered.	[22:20]
*	joesmoe (~joesmoe@76.73.18.156) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:22]
asciilifeform	mod6, ben_vulpes, trinque, et al: if any of you had problems with 'rotor,' be aware that the toolchain dir and its contents CANNOT BE MOVED OR RENAMED	[22:24]
asciilifeform	they contain configs with absolute paths !	[22:24]
asciilifeform	this idiocy is not my doing, it is gcc/binutils.	[22:24]
trinque	I can use it just fine now	[22:25]
asciilifeform	i.e. if you built it and it ended up sitting down in /home/luser/a/b/d/e/f/g/p/q/r/s, it will stay there. or rebuild WHOLE THING again.	[22:25]
trinque	just seems like db's configure script has some problem, and grabbed some data from my env	[22:25]
asciilifeform	trinque: post patch plz	[22:25]
asciilifeform	for the others.	[22:25]
trinque	will do	[22:25]
trinque	otherwise pretty impressive that the diff between the two binaries was so small	[22:26]
asciilifeform	try 'vbindiff' and explore it.	[22:26]
trinque	k	[22:26]
asciilifeform	i'd like to get it to be null.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	so we can start talking about bytes in the bin!	[22:27]
asciilifeform	with absolute locations.	[22:27]
*	joesmoe has quit (Quit: One of these days I'm going to find this PEER guy and reset HIS connection.)	[22:30]
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*	twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[22:39]
*	bosma has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.00052872 = 9.702 BTC [+]	[22:54]
*	trixisowned (~skdsfhshf@184-96-35-163.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77002 @ 0.00053801 = 41.4278 BTC [+] {2}	[23:04]

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