Forum logs for 15 Nov 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
Adlai you could roughly equate the queen of an ant colony to a human brain's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticular_formation#Clinical_significance ? [00:00]
nubbins` but i feel like the upper bound is significantly higher than people realize [00:00]
assbot Reticular formation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [00:00]
mircea_popescu Adlai maybe, but i'm very wary of recent brainscience. [00:00]
asciilifeform nubbins`: none of the claims, for whatever measure of 'complexity', amount to anything more than farts in the wind. [00:00]
Adlai which is why I linked to clinical examples, rather than speculation [00:00]
asciilifeform nubbins`: see the discussion last year of the 'entropy' of the digits of 'pi'. [00:00]
asciilifeform they max out every known measure [00:00]
asciilifeform (save for one.) [00:01]
Adlai would the same happen to an ant colony if you kidnapped the queen? [00:01]
asciilifeform and at the same time, the digits can be spat out by a very simple mechanism. [00:01]
nubbins` asciilifeform i fell into a black hole halfway through my cs/math joint major on points like these [00:01]
asciilifeform (see bailey borwein plouffe.) [00:01]
mircea_popescu Adlai generally most ant colonies have emergency backups always ready [00:01]
mircea_popescu if queen dies newborn queen emerges almost immediately. [00:02]
mircea_popescu some collapse tho, for various reasons [00:02]
asciilifeform this is no more surprising than skin on your finger regrowing. [00:02]
mircea_popescu right [00:02]
Adlai in humans neurons, queen damage is recoverable, with assistance from other colonies [00:02]
mircea_popescu well not really, neurons don't regrow like ants do. [00:02]
asciilifeform (there is some dispute re: whether and under what circumstances neurons regrow.) [00:03]
Adlai they could with external support. maybe not today, but it's easily possible within a few hundred years. [00:03]
mircea_popescu as opposed to moderately possible within a few thousand years ? [00:03]
asciilifeform lol! [00:03]
mircea_popescu how'dja compute those parameters ? [00:03]
nubbins` heh. [00:04]
Adlai well my initial random was "certain within decades", but then I toned it down a few orders of fartitude [00:04]
mircea_popescu lol [00:04]
nubbins` i was going to guess you used differential equations [00:04]
Adlai the exact timescale doesn't matter, it'll happen [00:04]
mircea_popescu you can feel it in your urine ? [00:05]
Adlai you don't think this is possible? [00:05]
undata What if certain things are just out of reach? Maybe the complete model is simple, but the approximations leading to it are larger than brains can handle? [00:06]
nubbins` see symbolic integration vs numerical methods [00:06]
mircea_popescu Adlai i have no idea, but i suspect your conviction is more informed by a faint whiff of a personal desire to survive/fear of death than anything else. [00:06]
nubbins` undata the complete model has maybe 2 rules tops [00:07]
Adlai of course. i'd say it's less a fear and more an underlying aspiration [00:07]
undata nubbins`: who knows; not I [00:07]
nubbins` nor anyone [00:07]
mircea_popescu Adlai why would you want to live forever already. [00:08]
Adlai to see what happens [00:08]
mircea_popescu haven't had enough of idiots yet ? [00:08]
nubbins` i suppose if you want to get cheeky it's (1) wiggle (2) if bumped, wiggle less [00:08]
mircea_popescu yeah, what is going to happen. i wonder. [00:08]
nubbins` we're just starting from a really really complex initial state ;D [00:08]
asciilifeform 'live long enough to see the buggers off.' [00:08]
asciilifeform modest aspiration. [00:08]
mircea_popescu lol [00:09]
* assbot gives voice to joecool [00:09]
Adlai :-o "millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" by the guy who died on a Sunday afternoon [00:09]
asciilifeform arse longa, cocka shorta. [00:10]
asciilifeform or what did mircea_popescu say. [00:10]
undata most of the things in my head, somebody/something else put there [00:10]
Adlai although I doubt LA was rainy in june [00:10]
undata not much lost when I die [00:10]
undata and I question the "most" [00:10]
Adlai http://youtu.be/NoAzpa1x7jU [00:10]
assbot Blade Runner - Final scene, "Tears in Rain" Soliloquy (HD) - YouTube [00:10]
asciilifeform 'i have seen the ships on fire at the edge of orion...' [00:11]
asciilifeform that one/ [00:11]
asciilifeform . [00:11]
mircea_popescu undata i recall reading this east-side of cold war story (rdg it was i think ?), about the drink that bestowed immortality, and how obnoxious old people were, 700+ yo clinging on to life to "see who wins whatever games" [00:11]
asciilifeform probably one of the best known scenes in all of film. [00:11]
mircea_popescu in fairness, the commies were very well familiar with the problem of just-wont-fucking-die-already dinosaurs [00:11]
mircea_popescu something the us is getting more and more acquainted with. [00:11]
asciilifeform ahahaha lol yes [00:12]
* nubbins` ponders turmite / langton's ant steady states as analogies for steady states in human behaviour [00:12]
asciilifeform ;;google gerontocracy [00:12]
gribble Gerontocracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Gerontocracy - Merriam-Webster Online: ; Gerontocracy | Define Gerontocracy at Dictionary.com: [00:12]
asciilifeform wow no specifically soviet refs [00:12]
Adlai !s bill maher [00:12]
assbot 6 results for 'bill maher' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bill+maher [00:12]
nubbins` somewhere out there, a guy named langton is eating chips on the couch and watching seinfeld. again. [00:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's the normally sclerotic reaction of society to a dissolution of values [00:12]
mircea_popescu the east destroyed its value system "for socialism" [00:12]
mircea_popescu the west did too, for... well... "fairness" i guess, same bs. [00:12]
mircea_popescu only way to select people now is age, which explains disasters like nanci pelosi [00:13]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919815 << what'll happen once old people live long enough to form their own tribes/societies? would this be some weird form of speciation? [00:13]
assbot Logged on 13-11-2014 14:50:21; xanthyos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kWaKhrpa28 [00:13]
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undata mircea_popescu: seems the hive would lose the ability to adapt without some mental youth elixir being invented alongside [00:14]
mircea_popescu but see... because of the "nonviolent principle" or w/e, it doesnt HAVE TO adapt anymore. [00:15]
asciilifeform Adlai: for that to work, different definition of 'old' would have to apply. [00:15]
undata mircea_popescu: and the lamb laid down with the lion [00:15]
* undata does big arms [00:15]
asciilifeform Adlai: you don't really see, e.g., 40 y.o. 'speciating' into own socity from 30 y.o [00:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't get out much, do you ? [00:15]
asciilifeform nope. [00:15]
nubbins` heh [00:15]
mircea_popescu 40yo male, with a buncha chicks. 20 yo male, in a group of derps. [00:15]
mircea_popescu quite fucking speciously speciated. [00:16]
asciilifeform opposite arrangement here [00:16]
mircea_popescu hence speciously :D [00:16]
Adlai and i'm wondering what will happen once we have a MUCH wider age range of active individuals [00:16]
asciilifeform http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/09/le-vieillard-gros.html << obligatory mr. o on old age [00:16]
assbot ClubOrlov: Le Vieillard Gros [00:16]
Adlai which will certainly happen within decades! [00:16]
mircea_popescu no it wont [00:16]
mircea_popescu part of the reason there's going to be blood is that there's too many old people. [00:17]
asciilifeform flying on cold-fusion (or fart) powered rocket packs, yes. [00:17]
Adlai well, old people who don't keep supporting themselves enough to stay alive without support from other tribes... will die of old age [00:17]
mircea_popescu incidentally, my favourite discussion of the topic is balzac. eugenie grandet. [00:17]
mircea_popescu Adlai you don't understand. there's nothing more readily cohesive of a group than hatred for old people. [00:17]
mircea_popescu look into london riots. [00:18]
asciilifeform !s harpagon [00:18]
assbot 4 results for 'harpagon' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=harpagon [00:18]
Adlai so they'll hire xenotribal mercenaries [00:18]
mircea_popescu lmao [00:18]
mircea_popescu are you like, new under the sun ? [00:18]
Adlai such as... police forces, armies, etc [00:19]
mircea_popescu suppose kim kardashian goes around drunk in the bad part of detroit, gets raped by a gang of thugs [00:19]
mircea_popescu hires a different gang of thugs to... kill the first gang ? [00:19]
mircea_popescu sure. they also fuck her, then they go have a drink with the first gang, exchange impressions. [00:19]
asciilifeform afaik traditional scheme is for the armies to fight in perpetual deadlock, as if they were the ruminants with horns set at such an angle as to be of no use [00:20]
Adlai basically, that's what happens when tribes/nation[/-]states attack eachother [00:20]
asciilifeform while herr harpagon watches and laughs [00:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that scheme only works when there's few old guys. [00:20]
mircea_popescu well, actually, i suspect old gals is more of a burden, but who knows. [00:21]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there are still 'few old guys.' they see the remaining many as impostors, but are not particularly afraid of them. they have pills for this ('obamacare' etc.) [00:21]
mircea_popescu i guess. [00:21]
mircea_popescu but the problem is the swarming instinct. [00:21]
asciilifeform pelosi is not in any sense afraid of random mrs. smith [00:22]
mircea_popescu you know, peacible grasshoppers suddenly change mode because they got touched on the toes by others too many times. [00:22]
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mircea_popescu no, but her ability to continue in relevance is a strict function of how many mrs smith johnny perceives a day. [00:22]
mircea_popescu because if he perceives too many, he's going to go "fuck you, and your laws, and your union" [00:22]
mircea_popescu something like the ferguson stuff. [00:22]
asciilifeform quite a few folks say 'ferguson' when discussion hypothetical phase transition, but i must disagree. [00:23]
asciilifeform lizard-hitler loves it when his zoo animals fight ineffectually among themselves [00:23]
mircea_popescu fine, whatever unquenchable permariots. the paris stuff. [00:23]
asciilifeform burn down own tenements, etc. [00:23]
asciilifeform same deal there [00:23]
mircea_popescu now look. im not saying the small scale thing is effectual. [00:24]
asciilifeform usa had a much closer shave before [00:24]
mircea_popescu what i am saying is that the mechanism clearly exists. [00:24]
asciilifeform if you visit wash.,d.c. you can see that in the '70s a good chunk of the place got 'detroit'ed. [00:24]
asciilifeform but not the organs of usg, nor of finance. [00:24]
mircea_popescu this is exactly how capitals work [00:24]
mircea_popescu same happened to bucharest, also in 70s [00:25]
asciilifeform mechanism exists, but i have no idea what it looks like in application to modern usa. [00:25]
mircea_popescu i suspect also moscow [00:25]
asciilifeform and neither does anyone else [00:25]
mircea_popescu well me either, what am i. mafalda. [00:25]
asciilifeform l0l [00:25]
asciilifeform vanga! [00:25]
asciilifeform (ru equivalent) [00:25]
mircea_popescu myeah. [00:26]
asciilifeform (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.) [00:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92800 @ 0.00042935 = 39.8437 BTC [+] [00:29]
mircea_popescu so basically we could say it's "the understanding" of magnetism ? [00:30]
asciilifeform at least partly. [00:30]
asciilifeform 'the map is not the territory, but you can't fold up the territory and fit it in your glove compartment.' [00:30]
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cazalla wru scoopbot, http://qntra.net/2014/11/nasaa-top-investor-threats/ [00:30]
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assbot NASAA: Top Investor Threats | Qntra.net [00:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3381 @ 0.00042935 = 1.4516 BTC [+] [00:31]
asciilifeform oh noez, competing chumpatrons, must d3str0y [00:31]
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mircea_popescu da fuck is nasaa [00:32]
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mircea_popescu all these important things i don't know about! [00:33]
asciilifeform http://worth1000.s3.amazonaws.com/submissions/183500/183879_8c00_625x1000.jpg [00:33]
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mircea_popescu lol [00:33]
mircea_popescu can this be like, our god ? [00:33]
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asciilifeform aha. [00:33]
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mircea_popescu cool. [00:33]
mircea_popescu lizard hitler is nowwith bitcoin jesus. [00:34]
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TheNewDeal lizard hitler is dating bitcoin jesus? [00:45]
TheNewDeal !s bitcoin jesus [00:45]
assbot 64 results for 'bitcoin jesus' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitcoin+jesus [00:45]
cazalla ignoring the paedos, i thought this was a good model for a porn site http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/11/09/as-drug-markets-are-seized-pedophiles-launch-a-crowdfunding-site/ [00:46]
assbot While Markets Get Seized: Pedophiles Launch a Crowdfunding Site - Deep Dot Web [00:46]
cazalla what are the odds such a site is a honey pot? [00:48]
asciilifeform !s the man who was thursday [00:48]
assbot 4 results for 'the man who was thursday' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=the+man+who+was+thursday [00:48]
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mircea_popescu cazalla about 11 in 5. [00:49]
asciilifeform cazalla: the whole thing exists only as a honeypot, even when it doesn't. [00:49]
asciilifeform what is a honeypot if not each and every criminal undertaking that steps outside of its 'wot' ? [00:49]
asciilifeform and opens self to strangers [00:50]
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asciilifeform (for whatever value of 'criminal', in whatever kingdom or time) [00:50]
asciilifeform at any rate, the incentive for the buggers to fabricate 'terrorist atrocities' is so overwhelming, that any such item is guilty until proven innocent of being just such a crock of shit. [00:51]
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asciilifeform not that i personally give a damn whether a particular honeypot is artificial or 'wild.' [00:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00043338 = 4.9839 BTC [+] [00:57]
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mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/i-dont-know-what-the-hell-i-said-i-gave-her-an-ultimatum-and-theres-nothing-i-can-do-its-a-machine-the-little-light-is-blinking-right-now-come-and-listen-to-the-idiot-hey-everybody-the-i/ [01:05]
assbot I don’t know what the hell I said. I gave her an ultimatum and there’s nothing I can do. It’s a machine. The little light is blinking right now: ‘Come and listen to the idiot. Hey everybody, the idiot’s on!’ pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [01:05]
asciilifeform lol! [01:06]
mircea_popescu hehe [01:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu lets nothing go to waste. [01:06]
mircea_popescu i am an ant! [01:06]
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cazalla Eliza needs a footnote? [01:09]
mircea_popescu well for prosteriority. [01:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90950 @ 0.00042509 = 38.6619 BTC [-] {3} [01:10]
mircea_popescu where prost means stupid, at least in romanian. [01:10]
asciilifeform 3rd conference << 2nd? [01:12]
asciilifeform (endnote vi) [01:12]
mircea_popescu $conference [01:12]
empyex mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 5 months and 3 days. Estimated cost today: 3.30951486 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ ) [01:12]
mircea_popescu right you are [01:12]
asciilifeform unless there was a lizards-only 0th conference... [01:13]
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asciilifeform herr dooglus must be on an ip-over-dead-goat acoustic-coupler modem... [01:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually weizenbaum's story is more interesting than the 'prosteriority' lets on. [01:15]
asciilifeform many people figured it out very quickly. [01:15]
asciilifeform but his secretary (young woman) - notably - did not [01:15]
asciilifeform and insisted that the thing was 'alive' and 'understood her' [01:16]
mircea_popescu yup. it works as a trap for particular people [01:16]
mircea_popescu rather than a universal problem [01:16]
asciilifeform she demanded to be 'let alone with it' [01:16]
asciilifeform and that was when we learned that there are those among us who... fail turing test. [01:16]
mircea_popescu nah, the two are not the same. [01:16]
asciilifeform well, inverse turing test. [01:16]
mircea_popescu understand something : if female brain were not hackable, if female vulva had no opening, there'd be no species. [01:17]
mircea_popescu she hacks herself. of course she does. so what of it ? [01:17]
asciilifeform nitpick. [01:17]
Adlai !s 4781 [01:17]
assbot 1 results for '4781' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=4781 [01:17]
mircea_popescu jurov quite. [01:17]
Adlai anybody read this? ^^ [01:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform im just saying, let's not confuse those who pass the fertility test with those who fail the turing test. [01:17]
asciilifeform i not infrequently read esr [01:17]
Adlai (the book, not the review itself) [01:17]
asciilifeform (esr suffers from some of the same problems as taleb) [01:18]
mircea_popescu Adlai i linked it neh ? [01:18]
Adlai http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=4781 (because assbot apparently isn't self-aware yet) [01:18]
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assbot 1 results for '4781' - #bitcoin-assets search [01:18]
Adlai er, shit. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#921595 [01:19]
assbot Logged on 14-11-2014 10:10:46; mircea_popescu: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4781 and it's really good, too. [01:19]
asciilifeform the book? can't say that i have [01:19]
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Adlai or it could specialcase finding only a single result [01:19]
asciilifeform but from the article, it sounds deeply reminiscent of a similar turd, 'cyberselfish' [01:19]
asciilifeform ( http://www.motherjones.com/politics/1996/07/cyberselfish << briefly described here.) [01:20]
assbot Cyberselfish | Mother Jones [01:20]
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mircea_popescu Our biggest concern is the welfare of children who appear on this site. {Site name redacted} has a ZERO tolerance policy for rape or [01:29]
mircea_popescu what the fuck reporting is this. [01:29]
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mircea_popescu !up romkor_ [01:33]
-assbot- You voiced romkor_ for 30 minutes. [01:33]
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mircea_popescu Adlai ah, the book. no, never have. [01:33]
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Adlai has anybody automated assbot auth? [01:34]
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mircea_popescu you mean gribble ? [01:36]
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mircea_popescu Adlai http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_authentication#Helper_scripts like that ? [01:37]
assbot GPG authentication - bitcoin-otc wiki [01:37]
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Adlai amazingly nobody seems to use btc address auth. wtf? [01:39]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:39]
Adlai srsly bro [01:39]
mircea_popescu what's so amazing about this ? [01:41]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:41]
mircea_popescu badly thought out, pointless functionality doesn't get much use among the sane. [01:42]
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Adlai it's not any better than gpg auth, but i don't see why it's any worse either [01:43]
Adlai although i guess it's less convenient to keep using in the face of existing automation of gpg auth [01:43]
mircea_popescu vulpes explains this if memory serves. [01:43]
mircea_popescu http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html#fn.24 there. [01:44]
assbot A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21 [01:44]
Adlai thx, not much luck slogging through http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aben_vulpes+auth* [01:45]
assbot 16 results for 'from:ben_vulpes auth*' - #bitcoin-assets search [01:45]
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asciilifeform whether this particular microscope is fit for use as a hammer, depends on two very separate questions - what you think of ecdsa, and what you think of bitcoind [01:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not even getting into these technical discussion : getting people to use their credit cards as identification paperwork is a bad idea. [01:47]
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asciilifeform one could in principle maintain a bitcoin 'keypair' for the purpose of abusing it for public key signatures [01:48]
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asciilifeform but why? [01:48]
mircea_popescu the only proper way to use bitcoin addresses as identification correctly is to run a never-connected node that has no balance. [01:48]
mircea_popescu this is so braindamaged as to leave one breathless. [01:48]
asciilifeform well yes. [01:48]
asciilifeform but still why. [01:48]
Adlai frankly, my crypto knowledge is lacking to have anything meaningful to say on this issue, beyond "gpg keys can have an order of magnitude more entropy than bitcoin pubkey hashes" [01:49]
asciilifeform get a hammer, leave microscope alone. [01:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform are you asking me why or the abuser why ? [01:49]
asciilifeform the abuser. [01:49]
mircea_popescu right. [01:49]
Adlai my reason/excuse has mainly been convenience, i had the btc auth set up years ago before i'd ever used gpg [01:49]
mircea_popescu convenience is the enemy, of course. [01:50]
mircea_popescu anwyay : you'll also notice we quite strictly use 4kb rsa sigs in our gpg [01:50]
mircea_popescu as pointedly opposed to using the ecdsa in bitcoin [01:50]
mircea_popescu now imagine what happens if either is breached somehow. [01:50]
asciilifeform 'Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name...' [01:50]
mircea_popescu quite. [01:51]
Adlai a stricter form of identity verification would require breaching *both*, rather than either, or only one [01:51]
mircea_popescu double the hassle of logging. tide's not really that high yet. [01:51]
Adlai ;;ident [01:52]
gribble Nick 'Adlai', with hostmask 'Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai', is identified as user 'Adlai', with GPG key id 4D88596A7CDA03F9, key fingerprint FCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9, and bitcoin address 13dkw1PtojBW74FN7ERbHqoEvgsTmtARuj [01:52]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust Adlai [01:52]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask Adlai!~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Adlai: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=Adlai | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Adlai | Rated since: Sat Oct 11 10:15:58 2014 [01:52]
Adlai how charming, i'm only btc authed, but gribble presents it as though i'm gpg authed too [01:52]
mircea_popescu Adlai it just says "you're authed" and lists how that could be [01:52]
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Adlai you may understand that, but it's not evident purely from response to ;;dient [01:53]
mircea_popescu anyway, seems you first logged last month, what do you mean "btc auth set up for years" ? [01:53]
thestringpuller "The cryptography is the strongest point. Your enemies will attack the weakest point, which is you." [01:53]
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mircea_popescu well no meaningful content is directly obvious from the form of expression. you gotta know what the words sya. [01:53]
Adlai i've had btc auth set up for around two years [01:53]
mircea_popescu like how ? [01:53]
Adlai i only set up gpg auth a few weeks ago [01:53]
Adlai compare: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php?nick=adlai and http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0xFCBC64EFDF1D6C1E4E964AEE4D88596A7CDA03F9 [01:55]
assbot #bitcoin-otc gpg key data [01:55]
mircea_popescu "Lest this all seem merely amusing, meditate on the fate of those who have tampered with words before. The behaviorists ruined words like "behavior", "response", and especially, "learning". They now pl-ay happily in a dream world, internally consistent but lost to science." [01:55]
mircea_popescu oh boy, quite. [01:55]
Adlai where are you going with that quote? [01:55]
mircea_popescu 2012-10-06 04:55:28 aha [01:56]
Adlai indeed :) [01:56]
mircea_popescu Adlai unrelated to our convo. [01:56]
Adlai oook [01:56]
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Adlai perhaps better data, from your very own: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/3B241BB6119757556F33339EFC6D3849C1ED1485C66C9D0D0A9506199D7402D0 [01:58]
assbot Welcome | Phuctor [01:58]
Adlai oh, that submission date is today. nvm. [01:58]
asciilifeform lol wasn't meant to be used as an authoritative keyserver. [01:58]
asciilifeform (only updates when someone craps a key in) [01:59]
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Adlai hah, i'd forgotten this already: http://nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/29F24169A59A5BE1ACC8FCE0E852F4AE1C2A83C2F6B6902D6FA363BFC983ACBA [02:02]
assbot Welcome | Phuctor [02:02]
* asciilifeform l0lz that folks are using 'phuctor' as a key viewer [02:02]
Adlai don't worry, i'm just phucting with you [02:03]
asciilifeform i guess there's something pleasurable in seeing the moduli [02:03]
asciilifeform i know i like to. [02:03]
Adlai https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=Adlai << /nick accidentally got squatted by ashley while i was in the army. never heard of waksman though. [02:04]
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assbot Search results for 'adlai' [02:04]
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Adlai https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=Adlai << so, while the current contributors' reasons for not using git[hub] are understandable, i'll leave this up and perhaps update it at my leisure, in case it'll be useful to anybody inhabiting a separate region on the paranoia/lazyness continuum [02:08]
assbot Search results for 'adlai' [02:08]
Adlai pastefail: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919932 [02:08]
assbot Logged on 13-11-2014 16:38:23; asciilifeform: Adlai: darcs << as a military man, perhaps you are familiar with systems that could be automated easily, but aren't? e.g., ru nuke sub controls [02:08]
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cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/11/cfpbs-proposed-rules-governing-prepaid-cards-include-virtual-currency/ [02:09]
asciilifeform Adlai: on the contrary, several people (even you?) are using 'git' [02:09]
assbot CFPB's Proposed Rules Governing Prepaid Cards Include "Virtual Currency" | Qntra.net [02:09]
asciilifeform it even, iirc, comes with a gpg signing gizmo [02:09]
Adlai people other than me have used it? [02:09]
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asciilifeform but it is only a tool that some people prefer to use. a 'git' or other similar gizmo will not be the authoritative representation of bitcoind. [02:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00042506 = 12.9643 BTC [-] [02:10]
asciilifeform for reasons described earlier. [02:10]
Adlai (specifically for this repo) [02:10]
asciilifeform aha i think ben_vulpes has one of his own [02:10]
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Adlai i only set up the repo. doing so required going through all the manual steps (and i did verify gpg signatures with identities fetched from public keyservers) [02:10]
asciilifeform try to understand why a git repo cannot be the canonical representation. [02:10]
Adlai of course i understand, although i still think darcs could actually work for this [02:11]
asciilifeform (the canonical representation can be taken and stuffed into a git repo, or darcs, or cvs, whatever, for your personal pleasure) [02:11]
Adlai (after reading more about its workings) [02:11]
asciilifeform but when it's time to cough your changes back up and have them up for public study, they have to be physically minimal [02:11]
Adlai let's put it this way: the act of fetching signed patches with darcs conducts *exactly* the manual verification workflow which you currently do [02:12]
asciilifeform and per the current state of the art, that means unix diff outputs. [02:12]
undata Adlai: this was my argument. [02:12]
Adlai !s undata darcs [02:12]
assbot 0 results for 'undata darcs' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=undata+darcs [02:12]
undata git and others are a damned hash database [02:12]
Adlai ... no it wasn't [02:12]
Adlai yes, and they're not looking for a hash database [02:12]
undata Adlai: it turns out there are a few of those [02:12]
asciilifeform Adlai: in what way is 'darcs' output more useful than unix patch? [02:12]
Adlai they're looking for verified patch lists [02:12]
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asciilifeform Adlai: does it, for example, avoid being fooled by line number counts? [02:12]
Adlai asciilifeform: you can add metadata such as patch dependency which is not evident just from the patch's raw contents [02:12]
undata Adlai: as you were then; git solves precisely this problem or would not work. [02:13]
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Adlai git commits to a specific state of code. what if it becomes evident that a specific developer was working to introduce bugs, and you only want to excise his patches? that has unbounded painfulness in git, but bounded painfulness in darcs. [02:13]
asciilifeform incidentally, the problem of 'patcher than is never fooled by deletions and line count shifts' is not solvable in the general case. [02:14]
Adlai same bounds hold, or don't, for "his patches, and all those dependent upon them" [02:14]
asciilifeform (if you have a solution, geneticists would love to hear about it. 'sequence alignment' is ruinously expensive, in computational terms.) [02:14]
Adlai which is why darcs lets you add manual metadata for dependency constraints [02:14]
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Adlai a "conflict" would require a separate patch, which should be signed by the resolver [02:15]
asciilifeform Adlai: we have the metadata. the integer in the patch fileames. [02:15]
asciilifeform *filename [02:15]
asciilifeform try to understand the nature of this 'nuke sub' and the pitfalls of tying one's fortune to 'darcs' or a similarly 'intelligent' instrument. [02:16]
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undata asciilifeform: the process of producing a git commit is entirely dumb [02:17]
Adlai darcs isn't that intelligent. the input data it gets from a repository is a partially ordered list of patches, possibly signed. this is slightly more general than an ordered list of patches, but just as secure and interactive/manual [02:17]
undata and your nuke sub is going to get harder and harder to work on as the number of patches grows [02:17]
asciilifeform undata: i want it to get harder. [02:17]
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asciilifeform undata, Adlai: are you familiar with 'risk homeostasis' ? [02:17]
Adlai !s risk homeostasis [02:17]
assbot 1 results for 'risk homeostasis' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=risk+homeostasis [02:17]
Adlai apparently logs aren't either! [02:18]
Adlai at least, not to a great degree... but i get the idea [02:18]
asciilifeform incidentally, esr had a piece on it. [02:18]
asciilifeform http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6271 [02:18]
assbot Program Provability and the Rule of Technical Greed [02:18]
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undata asciilifeform: the process you've demanded be manual is not nearly a hard enough hurdle to filter undesirables [02:19]
asciilifeform this business, where things have to keep 'growing' for no apparent reason at all, needs to go. [02:19]
undata it's just a pain in the ass [02:19]
asciilifeform the point here is not to filter undesirable -people- [02:20]
asciilifeform but -things-. [02:20]
asciilifeform as in, cruft. [02:20]
asciilifeform look at extant software and you will see what happens to engineering when moving parts stop having weight and cost. [02:20]
asciilifeform it gets cancer. [02:20]
asciilifeform and since it never quite succumbs to the cancer, the tumours become planetary-sized. [02:21]
asciilifeform dwarfing the actual healthy tissue. [02:21]
asciilifeform how much of what is on your computer right now, actually -does- something ? [02:21]
undata I'll argue that git is doing precisely what you're doing by hand. [02:21]
Adlai i'm going to stop talking before i sound like a broken record, but this topic is likely to come up again once i've got something more substantial to say in defense of some tool for easing (ie, partially automating, up to the point of confirming signature verification) this process... no guarantee on how soon that could be, or which tool. [02:21]
Adlai darcs seems the likeliest candidate right now, though [02:21]
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undata you're not removing complexity; you're just making the same process slower [02:22]
asciilifeform undata: well, to the extent that any version control system can be cudgelled into coughing up output compatible with 'patch' - then yes. [02:22]
asciilifeform but it is that output, and only that, which i am willing to sign. [02:22]
undata asciilifeform: there is not one single canonical timeline in any project [02:22]
asciilifeform others can disagree, and sign the empire state building. [02:22]
asciilifeform let's put it another way. i will not sign anything that i cannot read. [02:22]
asciilifeform it's bad enough that we are dealing with a turd that is quite impossible to fully understand in the original. [02:23]
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asciilifeform but i will only sign deltas which consist of information which i can fully view. [02:23]
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undata to me you're saying damn the microscope or we'll never understand this cell [02:23]
asciilifeform undata: you are perfectly welcome to use a vcs of whatever flavour appeals to you [02:24]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, the one fellow who is really still working on this gizmo, is [02:24]
undata I'd like to slash out the db bits and try something else, but I'm not going to bother with trying to manually merge other people's patches as they come along in process [02:25]
undata that is precisely the scenario git helps [02:25]
mod6 im not using one [02:25]
* asciilifeform isn't either [02:25]
asciilifeform undata: if you want to understand the whole point of the fork, try to understand what you lose when you choose a vcs as a canonical representation. [02:26]
asciilifeform or, alternatively, create own fork, with own point... [02:26]
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asciilifeform but don't be surprised if it is treated in the same way as the phoundation's original - at the very best, a place to steal bug fixes from. [02:26]
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asciilifeform undata: do you know how soviet nukes and spacecraft were assembled? [02:30]
Adlai wouldn't a better forking point be before any significant "crowd" involvement? cf https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/graphs/contributors?from=2010-07-11&to=2011-04-27&type=c [02:30]
asciilifeform there was a three-man system [02:30]
assbot Contributors to bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub [02:30]
asciilifeform one would read instructions. another, turn a wrench, whatever. third would check that 2 corresponds to 1. then, all three sign under that step in recipe. [02:30]
asciilifeform all three - answer with their lives. [02:30]
asciilifeform this is how safety-critical systems work. [02:30]
asciilifeform and whiners who complain that this is arduous, unreasonable, etc. - are shown where the door is. [02:31]
* Adlai is not sufficiently familiar with each line of code itself to tell which of those contributions, or ones in the ensuing spikes, are trivially trustable, and which aren't [02:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49173 @ 0.00042192 = 20.7471 BTC [-] {2} [02:31]
undata asciilifeform: it is absurd to think that software cannot help enforce that rigor [02:31]
undata or why did we make it at all? [02:31]
undata any software [02:31]
asciilifeform software is helping to the extent it is reasonable. for instance, i am trusting my text editor to display the actual source and not some diddled version. [02:32]
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undata asciilifeform: it's more likely that your text editor diddled than git did [02:32]
undata your text editor isn't checking against known hashes [02:32]
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asciilifeform idea is not 'which was diddled' but which one encourages reliance on greater and greater machine 'intelligence' [02:32]
Adlai undata: this is more along the lines of "confirm by human approval that an unforseen software/bureaucracy/insanity 'bug' isn't afoot" [02:32]
asciilifeform it is very easy to test if my text editor is lying. [02:32]
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asciilifeform (less easy to test if it is -capable- of lying, but that's another matter) [02:33]
asciilifeform but the argument here is not about sabotaged ken-thompson-style tools. but about tools that foster intellectual atrophy. [02:33]
asciilifeform and a dependence on the machine to resolve questions which ought to be resolved by the mind, and thus kept 'light weight' enough to be easily resolved by the mind. [02:34]
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undata being able to apply 700 patches by hand, having verified signatures on each one, is no measure of intelligence [02:35]
asciilifeform no. [02:35]
undata it confirms you're a ploddingly simple mechanical device [02:35]
asciilifeform it's a chore, yes [02:35]
asciilifeform can't really argue that it's a great joy. [02:35]
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asciilifeform and whatever aspects of it can be automated - should be [02:35]
Adlai according to github, v0.5.3 has 36 committers with github accounts (for example, doesn't include satoshi). compare this with starting on Apr 1, 2011: 8 [02:36]
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asciilifeform but i will not be signing any patch that i can't apply with my mind, in my mental model of the code. [02:36]
undata Adlai: there is a mountain of bugfixing to re-apply [02:36]
asciilifeform and requires some complicated pattern-matcher to apply [02:36]
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undata asciilifeform: at some point wont you have to delegate that? [02:36]
undata torvalds addresses this regarding the kernel and git [02:36]
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undata he uses WoT to manage what makes it into the kernel [02:37]
asciilifeform lol re: linux kernel as an example to follow [02:37]
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Adlai of course, but the "manual trust verification" approach taken further would suggest only applying critical bugfixes, as patches, signed by the developer who wrote them (preferably with a signature published at the time of the fix, alternatively obtaining a signature in the present day... or manually verifying the patch's trustworthyness, and signing yourself) [02:38]
undata Adlai: so I sign the hash of the commit with my gpg key [02:38]
asciilifeform Adlai: there are two separate questions here, and we are only dealing with one [02:38]
asciilifeform that being - attribution. [02:38]
asciilifeform the most important thing is that each and every change, however slight, is attributable. [02:38]
asciilifeform now, and 100 years from now. [02:39]
asciilifeform 'trustworthiness' can only be born from this. [02:39]
asciilifeform right now it is a null word. [02:39]
Adlai and how does what I just said miss that? [02:39]
undata asciilifeform: so are you going to trace that line of code by hand through 1500 patches? [02:39]
asciilifeform well, you referred to 'trustworthiness' which is a thing we have not yet invented. [02:39]
undata and is that more reliable than git blame? [02:39]
undata now I'm supposed to trust your infallible eye [02:39]
asciilifeform undata: picture the 0.5.3 turd as a piece of martian technology. [02:39]
asciilifeform let's pretend that it just happened to fall upon the earth. [02:40]
Adlai s/trust/origin/, s/manually verifying/claiming responsibility for/ [02:40]
undata ha, yes. [02:40]
asciilifeform we have no idea, let's say, what parts are useful, and which ones are boobytraps designed to kill unwary earthling dissector. [02:40]
asciilifeform but we do know that among us are hostile martians, who would like us to come to harm. [02:40]
asciilifeform we want to know, even if it is fifty years too late, who they were. [02:40]
asciilifeform and the only way to learn it, is by their works. [02:41]
undata I might not try and use the thing at all. [02:41]
asciilifeform that's an option. [02:41]
undata I'd observe it then try a clean re-implementation [02:41]
asciilifeform i hear it's popular. [02:41]
asciilifeform aha but how to observe? [02:41]
asciilifeform and then how to convince others you are not a martian ? [02:41]
asciilifeform two separate problems. [02:41]
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asciilifeform conformal corp.'s reimplementation exists, for instance. [02:41]
asciilifeform and 2 or 3 others. [02:41]
asciilifeform why aren't we using them? [02:41]
Adlai well, you can't convince another person you're not a martian. hell, i don't think i could convince myself that i'm not unwittingly carrying out martian bidding. [02:42]
asciilifeform (well - at least, i'm not) [02:42]
ben_vulpes inertia [02:42]
ben_vulpes fear [02:42]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: no. [02:42]
asciilifeform i won't use, because i was not privvy to the process whereby it was born. [02:42]
asciilifeform nor have any reason to place trust in the creators [02:42]
Adlai but you can ease recovery from covert evil martian sabotage [02:42]
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asciilifeform what recovery can there be, when your $maxint coins walk away? [02:42]
asciilifeform gotta understand why bitcoind < 0.6 is special. [02:43]
ben_vulpes why so much more confident in the satoshi turd than the conformal blackbox? [02:43]
asciilifeform because it is the only one which existed upon the earth before bitcoin was valuable! [02:43]
asciilifeform i thought this was elementarily obvious. [02:43]
undata but this can be taken to the absurd [02:43]
ben_vulpes best argument i've heard. [02:43]
undata satoshi = nsa [02:43]
undata it has always been broken [02:43]
asciilifeform undata: this comes up here at least once a month, and i regret to say that it is mostly my own fault. [02:44]
Adlai surely these purely hypothetical martians already had their eyes on it before "bitcoin was valuable" [02:44]
undata asciilifeform: I don't believe or disbelieve it [02:44]
undata one can always suppose a reason why tonight's the night they come to get him [02:44]
asciilifeform Adlai: there are at least six different hypotheses for why dr. evil has not yet pulled the trigger. [02:44]
asciilifeform one of them is that there was no dr. evil [02:44]
asciilifeform but there are at least five others. [02:44]
asciilifeform i think each of the regulars here has his favourite. [02:45]
Adlai at least one tla took an active interest back in 2011... [02:45]
Adlai and please elaborate on the hypotheses [02:45]
Adlai (or just point out log links/searches) [02:45]
TheNewDeal second that statement [02:45]
TheNewDeal the only one I can think of is, wait until it gets 10, or 100 times bigger [02:46]
asciilifeform !s nsa bitcoin [02:46]
assbot 27 results for 'nsa bitcoin' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nsa+bitcoin [02:46]
undata why would they create it? impending fiat disaster? [02:46]
TheNewDeal not interested about the nsa connection now, but the "why hasn't he pulled the plug?" question [02:46]
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undata TheNewDeal: supposing "he" is usgov; why wouldn't they just sit back and let it take over, and hold their 1/21 or more of it? [02:47]
undata and continue to be the thing they've been [02:47]
Adlai TheNewDeal: e no antecedent, in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014922735 [02:47]
* assbot gives voice to joecool [02:47]
assbot #bitcoin-assets log [02:47]
TheNewDeal that's obvious to me why it doesnt matter if he is nsa [02:47]
undata I don't see a reason to pull any plugs [02:47]
asciilifeform undata: are you familiar with a figure called anatoly golitsyn? [02:47]
joecool !isitdup wiki.bitcoin-assets.com [02:47]
undata asciilifeform: I am not [02:48]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-12-2013#421984 [02:48]
assbot Logged on 15-12-2013 00:57:19; asciilifeform: anyone knows the story of a man called Anatoliy Golitsyn? [02:48]
Adlai fixfail: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922735 [02:48]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 00:43:25; TheNewDeal: second that statement [02:48]
joecool kakobrekla: wiki is down? [02:48]
undata here's a doubling down of it: NSA intends to take over the hashing power of the network and implement coin validation [02:48]
undata ushering in a dark age [02:48]
undata haha [02:48]
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joecool yep, everything on bitcoin-assets.com down for me [02:49]
undata asciilifeform: yes that [02:49]
Adlai ;;isup search.bitcoin-assets.com [02:50]
gribble search.bitcoin-assets.com is up [02:50]
undata bitcoin could easily be one of the most dystopian inventions ever [02:50]
undata depending on who has the hashing power and what they intend [02:50]
asciilifeform http://pastebin.com/LEKE04PY << for those who can't reach the log [02:50]
assbot 00:57:19asciilifeform:anyone knows the story of a man called Anatoliy Golitsyn? - Pastebin.com [02:50]
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undata asciilifeform: this brings me back to my comments about the pile of weapons [02:51]
* Adlai likes how the pastebin gets dated by the newsfart mention [02:52]
joecool !isup log.bitcoin-assets.com [02:52]
Adlai joecool: try ;; [02:52]
joecool Adlai: search works here [02:52]
joecool ;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com [02:52]
gribble log.bitcoin-assets.com is up [02:52]
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undata the pentagon is the actual US govt [02:52]
asciilifeform !s meta-nsa [02:52]
undata this civilian bureaucracy is a skirt [02:52]
assbot 30 results for 'meta-nsa' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=meta-nsa [02:52]
asciilifeform ^ required reading for 'shadow government' aficionados [02:53]
joecool Adlai: used to ! on the otc channel, bad habit [02:53]
asciilifeform !s lizard-hitler [02:53]
assbot 5 results for 'lizard-hitler' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=lizard-hitler [02:53]
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Adlai the lizard-hitler popular with my conspiracy friends has dabbled in history from a much earlier age [02:54]
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asciilifeform e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-12-2013#416393 [02:55]
assbot Logged on 11-12-2013 00:40:16; asciilifeform: i can't help but imagine some fellow at Meta-NSA, with a pill against ECDSA hidden under a flower pot in his office, laughing his arse off at these morons. [02:55]
Adlai he/they are responsible for crossing mammal and reptilian "genes" (phenotypes? genotypes? details, damnit! details!) [02:55]
Adlai Homo sapiens [sapiens] being essentially some form of automaton / robot slave / controlled experiment, conducted by these lizard-nazis [02:56]
asciilifeform for those who slept, [02:56]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#922393 [02:56]
assbot Logged on 14-11-2014 22:24:42; asciilifeform: (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.) [02:56]
Adlai "slept"? more like "don't speak http" [02:56]
Adlai which is quite an illiteracy, these days [02:57]
Adlai !b 12 [02:57]
assbot Last 12 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3A8FTX8.txt ) [02:57]
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Adlai ignorance is bliss, eh assbot? [02:58]
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Adlai assbot is immune to suicidal depression, because it doesn't even know it exists [02:59]
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nubbins` ;;seen asciilifeform [03:02]
gribble asciilifeform was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 minutes and 25 seconds ago: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-11-2014#922393 [03:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66300 @ 0.0004115 = 27.2825 BTC [-] {2} [03:03]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i'm right here. [03:03]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2014#610903 << does security-over-obscurity preclude discussing further your uses of obsd? [03:03]
nubbins` hi [03:03]
asciilifeform at least for a few min. [03:03]
assbot Logged on 09-04-2014 09:10:25; mircea_popescu: tbh im kinda surprised teh tradepress isn't howling all about "in january, 'Bitcoin Baron Keeps a Secretive Open Source OS Alive' ; in april, nsa's crown jool is thrown in the dirt of the public space." [03:03]
nubbins` - if the project is deemed infeasible, 0.5 BTC (less tx fees) will be returned to a Bitcoin address specified by asciilifeform, no later than 2014-11-15. [03:03]
asciilifeform ah [03:03]
nubbins` loose ends and the tying up thereof! [03:03]
asciilifeform send it where it came from. [03:03]
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nubbins` k [03:03]
* Adlai is curious what is considered a secure stack for financial sites, eg mpex [03:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36427 @ 0.00041773 = 15.2167 BTC [+] [03:04]
nubbins` i still want to print this if/when the time comes that the chicken is whittled down to edible meat and bone [03:04]
asciilifeform nubbins`: and i shall buy it. [03:04]
Adlai nubbins`: why aren't you printing it? [03:04]
asciilifeform Adlai: see jurov's chronicle: http://explo.yt/post/2014/10/29/some-dangerous-idea [03:04]
assbot A dangerous idea - serialized delusions [03:05]
asciilifeform (re: why not printed) [03:05]
nubbins` tl;dr you don't bronze turds [03:05]
asciilifeform except! in the case of the 1990s alt.tasteless 'golden turd award.' [03:05]
asciilifeform where - they did. [03:05]
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nubbins` heh [03:07]
nubbins` https://blockchain.info/tx/233caa80975f203b65927c705e5fa2876354ab6ddb8c4f684ca76ebeab44ab71 [03:07]
assbot Bitcoin Transaction 233caa80975f203b65927c705e5fa2876354ab6ddb8c4f684ca76ebeab44ab71 [03:08]
asciilifeform Adlai: what is considered a secure stack for financial << this is like asking, 'what is considered a good wife' [03:08]
Adlai and indeed, isn't it acceptable, in some circles at least, to look at family photos? [03:08]
asciilifeform 'A Roman divorced from his wife, being highly blamed by his friends, who demanded, "Was she not chaste? Was she not fair? Was she not fruitful?" holding out his shoe, asked them whether it was not new and well made. "Yet," added he, "none of you can tell where it pinches me."' [03:09]
asciilifeform (plutarch, iirc) [03:09]
joecool hm reading about the assets project to roll back to 0.5.3, i see "rip out bdb" ? drop wallet support so it only functions as node? [03:10]
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asciilifeform joecool: rolling back was just step 1 in recipe. [03:10]
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Adlai this roman doesn't seem to care much for his friends' feet. perhaps the shoe's pinch points would bother them too, if they were to walk long enough in the same shoes? [03:10]
nubbins` notary http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5 [03:11]
nubbins` what is it again [03:11]
nubbins` !s notary [03:11]
assbot 26 results for 'notary' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=notary [03:11]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5 [03:12]
notary nubbins`: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [03:12]
ben_vulpes joecool: what's a wallet? [03:12]
joecool ben_vulpes: wallet.db support [03:13]
ben_vulpes is management of a single address not enough for you? [03:13]
nubbins` :D [03:13]
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asciilifeform joecool: i don't believe that the current participants in turdatron really agree on what the ultimate end product should be (e.g., something like what conformal has, or a hardware implementation - what i want, etc.) but we do agree that a reference implementation is necessary before it even makes sense to ask the question. [03:14]
asciilifeform at the moment - we don't have a reference. [03:14]
asciilifeform nubbins`: thank you [03:15]
nubbins` np, may our day in the sun come [03:15]
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nubbins` !up dooglus [03:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7723 @ 0.00042926 = 3.3152 BTC [+] [03:16]
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nubbins` incidentally, you'll get a chance to check out pictures of my large-format binding work later this month [03:17]
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joecool asciilifeform: i see, what exactly has been happening? were people expecting gavin to crap out a reference eventually or just keep adding BIP's and pile on the crap? [03:19]
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nubbins` i think "people" were expecting what people always have/will [03:22]
nubbins` everything, now, goddammit [03:23]
joecool nubbins`: someone else will get around to it [03:23]
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nubbins` saying shit like "we" [03:23]
nubbins` "we need" [03:23]
ben_vulpes "the people" want everything they're told they want and to pay for nothing. [03:23]
ben_vulpes kinda why the open source ownership of satoshi's codebase failed so dramatically. [03:24]
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nubbins` dat lack of bare-bones implementation, etc [03:24]
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ben_vulpes the preference of "the community" for something that sorta-works across a broad spectrum of use cases [03:26]
ben_vulpes (albeit poorly at any of them individually) [03:26]
joecool so there's a todo, is there a repo you guys are using or a a mailing list for patches? [03:26]
ben_vulpes ml for patches [03:27]
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ben_vulpes lol don't really know if it even works yet [03:27]
undata joecool: repo?! scoff! [03:27]
thestringpuller "There are no infinite loops in Ethereum because cycles cost currency and there is a finite amount of currency." [03:27]
joecool undata: cvs works for me [03:27]
ben_vulpes but if you're going to hack on it, start with the 0.5.3 dist at f9beb4d9.org, apply asciilifeform's "chicken" patch, and then yours on top of that. [03:27]
joecool ben_vulpes: thanks [03:28]
thestringpuller has anyone been able to load blockchain yet without exploding? [03:28]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: i'm still inching my blockchain to wedging [03:28]
ben_vulpes i'm working to crap out a "blockchain" that i can use to test this wedge [03:29]
ben_vulpes er [03:29]
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ben_vulpes that i can use to track down potentially unwedging commits i should say. [03:29]
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joecool ben_vulpes: will it reindex a pulled in blockchain or is it a necessity to pull in from start to finish? [03:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26400 @ 0.0004105 = 10.8372 BTC [-] [03:41]
* Adlai envisions a method of automatically sussing out the wedge point, but it requires the use of automation tools... [03:41]
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Adlai specifically, http://man.cx/git-bisect [03:43]
assbot Manpage for git-bisect - man.cx manual pages [03:43]
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thestringpuller joecool: after certain block it goes bananas [03:44]
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joecool always same block? [03:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12295 @ 0.0004105 = 5.0471 BTC [-] [03:44]
thestringpuller dunno haven't tried again [03:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22828 @ 0.00041956 = 9.5777 BTC [+] [03:57]
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ben_vulpes Adlai: git bisect is actually the plan [03:59]
ben_vulpes my plan, more accurately. [04:00]
ben_vulpes joecool: "reindexing" is something that gavin's fork does to find all of the transactions relevant to addresses in your wallet in a given blockchain. [04:01]
ben_vulpes required for "importprivkey" etc [04:01]
ben_vulpes reverifying the blockchain is something else entirely. [04:01]
joecool so 0.5.3 and earlier did not do such things? [04:02]
Adlai the only plan right now is http://music.tatranmusic.com/ [04:02]
assbot TATRAN [04:02]
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ben_vulpes 0.5.3 and earlier have wallets, and all the concomittant braindamage like "reindex" [04:04]
ben_vulpes 0.5.3 is just a not unreasonable starting point for the project. [04:04]
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ben_vulpes the story behind its selection is pretty amusing and may need to be revisited. [04:05]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: how much of what is on your computer right now, actually -does- something ? << i guess about half. [04:06]
mircea_popescu and that is probably rare. [04:06]
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ben_vulpes Adlai: additionally, i'm scripting the approach to the wedge point so that i can reproduce both the wedge and it not happening trivially with git bisect and other scripts [04:07]
mircea_popescu basically there' [04:08]
mircea_popescu s a conflict between enthusiasm and experience here. [04:08]
mircea_popescu enthusiasm is a sin. [04:08]
Adlai ben_vulpes: please share your bisection script [04:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54873 @ 0.00042886 = 23.5328 BTC [+] {3} [04:09]
ben_vulpes Adlai: just in skeleton form atm [04:09]
ben_vulpes i don't have a blockchain that wedges yet, nor have i reproduced the wedging point [04:09]
* Adlai is in no hurry [04:09]
ben_vulpes stuff i've written so far: http://pastebin.com/Zf4T9xF7 [04:10]
assbot [Bash] #!/bin/bash TEST_DATA_DIR=aplace WEDGE_BLOCK=999999 clean_data_dir() { - Pastebin.com [04:10]
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ben_vulpes this abomination is what's edging my copy of 0.5.3 up to the wedge point: http://pastebin.com/itWYUk9f [04:11]
assbot [Bash] #! /bin/bash # assumes that bitcoind is running blockmax=$1 should_continue - Pastebin.com [04:11]
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ben_vulpes hardly groundbreaking. just tiptoeing around, because...enthusiasm kills the sapper. [04:12]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes why the sleep ? [04:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67550 @ 0.0004334 = 29.2762 BTC [+] {2} [04:13]
ben_vulpes no desire to tax the poor leaky boat [04:13]
mircea_popescu should be interestinf to see if sleep actually resolves [part of] memory leakage [04:13]
mircea_popescu -> race condition. [04:13]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: undata: this comes up here at least once a month, and i regret to say that it is mostly my own fault. <<< that it has a good response is mostly your fault. that it appears... it'd have appeared anyway. [04:15]
mircea_popescu now if i only had a link to where it was put to rest, to pass along to undata [04:15]
ben_vulpes currach is the word i was looking for [04:15]
mircea_popescu carrack ? [04:16]
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ben_vulpes leather over wood prehistoric thinger? [04:17]
ben_vulpes coracle perhaps even [04:17]
mircea_popescu oh, no. this is the boat that mapped the world. [04:17]
ben_vulpes well its a crappy coracle dammit [04:17]
ben_vulpes bitcoin is the coin that changed the world but that doesn't mean the first try doesn't sink in heavy storms [04:18]
mircea_popescu http://www.stephenbiesty.co.uk/galleries_Atmospheric_Cutaways_Magellan'sCarrack.html [04:18]
assbot Stephen Biesty - Illustrator - Atmospheric Cutaways - Megallan's Carrack [04:18]
asciilifeform !s koraktor [04:20]
assbot 11 results for 'koraktor' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=koraktor [04:20]
asciilifeform or maybe not. [04:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2617 @ 0.0004249 = 1.112 BTC [-] [04:21]
undata mircea_popescu: regarding the NSA conspiracy, it's amusing, but doesn't seem likely that they'd undermine fiat intentionaly [04:22]
undata *lly [04:22]
asciilifeform does cia cocaine boat intend to undermine 'war on drugs' ? [04:22]
asciilifeform why does 'intend' even matter? [04:22]
undata asciilifeform: because unintentionally they're undermining their own existence by existing in the first place [04:23]
nubbins` anyone else find it mildly interesting that the last 5 chars in deed ID of jurov's signed treasurer's contract are "urovj"? [04:24]
asciilifeform me. [04:24]
nubbins` :D [04:24]
nubbins` i stared at it for like 10 minutes [04:25]
asciilifeform in other news, http://lenta.ru/news/2014/11/14/boeing [04:27]
assbot Lenta.ru: Силовые структуры: «Первый канал» показал спутниковые снимки атаки истребителем гражданского самолета [04:27]
asciilifeform i don't feel like translating. [04:27]
asciilifeform either 'google' or mircea_popescu [04:27]
asciilifeform tldr - ru satellite footage of death of mh-17 [04:28]
* asciilifeform wasn't there, didn't watch, cannot swear to it [04:28]
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nubbins` :0 [04:29]
asciilifeform let out in response to australian 'je'accuse' [04:29]
Adlai all this horseradish for just a file conversion!? http://www.zamzar.com/tos.php [04:30]
assbot Zamzar - Free online file conversion [04:30]
asciilifeform lol, american/uk sat. [04:32]
undata asciilifeform: the strange thing to me: it doesn't matter at all what actually happened [04:32]
Adlai it's considerably shorter than the usual legalese, but just for starters, they could have separate terms for all the paid cruft, and leave the free service simple [04:32]
undata these events serve as fine propaganda tools no matter what for both sides [04:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34450 @ 0.00042727 = 14.7195 BTC [+] {2} [04:32]
asciilifeform undata: except when usg can be caught with pants down. [04:32]
asciilifeform and anally tickled until bursts. [04:32]
undata asciilifeform: the usgov can tag its own pentagon with a missile in broad daylight [04:32]
asciilifeform and let's say you caught it on film. [04:33]
asciilifeform yes, 'can have problems,' film will be denied, etc. [04:33]
asciilifeform but still improvement. [04:33]
undata seems like the US and Russia are gradually building support for a very large war [04:35]
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mats_cd03 ha. [04:35]
undata meanwhile, related: they're starting to bang the Iraq war drum here, again [04:36]
undata only this time Syria must go as well [04:36]
thestringpuller https://github.com/cwinklevoss [04:37]
asciilifeform i can make one for hitler, what of it [04:38]
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thestringpuller silly winklevii don't code [04:38]
undata if I were russia, I'd wait for the US to go balls deep into the middle east again, and then I'd grab some of the north pole's oil, and whatever I wanted in eastern ukraine, at least [04:39]
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undata and I'd most certainly try to help stir up whatever particular brand of shit the americans can't resist in the middle east [04:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5598 @ 0.00043346 = 2.4265 BTC [+] [04:40]
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mircea_popescu anyone else find it mildly interesting that the last 5 chars in deed ID of jurov's signed treasurer's contract are "urovj"? << it's in the logs. [04:42]
mircea_popescu if I were russia, I'd wait for the US to go balls deep into the middle east again, and then I'd grab some of the north pole's oil, <<< obviously, you're not russia. [04:44]
mircea_popescu it needs more oil under a sheet of ice like kim kardashian needs more pubic hair. [04:44]
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PeterL doesn't russia pretty much have as much oil as they want right now anyway? why do they need an excuse to grab more? [04:45]
mircea_popescu yup. [04:47]
Adlai any theories on reasons for the temporal hint of correlation between btcfiat and s.mpoe? [04:47]
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mircea_popescu i was waiting for mike_c's words of wisdom [04:47]
ben_vulpes !t l s.mpoe [04:47]
assbot It says some pelt-wearin' trapper, some stinkin' bean-suckin' possum skinner, he's gonna collect that reward money. [04:47]
ben_vulpes !l s.mpoe [04:47]
assbot The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow. [04:47]
ben_vulpes !l mpex s.mpoe [04:47]
mircea_popescu !t m s.mpoe [04:47]
assbot Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00043346 BTC [+] [04:47]
assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0004105 / 0.0004339 / 0.00046194 (2681850 shares, 1,163.66 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00053599 / 0.00065245 (7576604 shares, 4,061.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00067967 / 0.00081111 (23975563 shares, 16,295.66 BTC) [04:47]
undata mircea_popescu: still, controlling supply means having an influence on price [04:47]
mike_c i don't have any words of wisdom on mpoe. [04:48]
mircea_popescu undata you don't understand. siberia is a huge space, full of minerals they can't access because ice. [04:48]
mike_c feels cheap though. [04:48]
ben_vulpes wasn't the last major mpoe action a big rally during the big btc rally? [04:48]
ben_vulpes ;;ticker [04:48]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 391.71, Best ask: 391.72, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 391.65, 24 hour volume: 20570.65837348, 24 hour low: 382.95, 24 hour high: 415.0, 24 hour vwap: 396.974151246 [04:48]
PeterL and no way to transport out, no oil pipes [04:48]
ben_vulpes there is this sneaky theory that btc price is driven by mpoe holders [04:48]
Adlai well look who's been asleep now :P [04:48]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes pretty much yea [04:49]
Adlai so, why would they need to dump mpoe to boost btc? [04:49]
Adlai doesn't mpoe operate "within" bitcoin? [04:49]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu will bang on about that at will [04:49]
* ben_vulpes shrugs [04:50]
ben_vulpes many legs to the trade [04:50]
ben_vulpes could just be momentum and a long dry spell on mpex [04:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: except! in the case of the 1990s alt.tasteless 'golden turd award.' <<< anything good in there ? [04:50]
ben_vulpes i suspect mpoe acts as a stand in for an mpex market fund [04:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: plenty [04:51]
Adlai note that i'm asking less "why did mpoe drop" and more "what evidence supports a correlation as the explanation for the temporal coincidence?" [04:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but we've no archive any more. [04:51]
mircea_popescu sux. [04:51]
Adlai for all i care, it could have risen. i hold none (yet) [04:51]
ben_vulpes Adlai: if anything, i'd have expected a surge as those who held mpoe bought more to balance their crypto holdings while accumulating more btc [04:51]
ben_vulpes mpoe is a goddamn mystery to me, Adlai. [04:52]
mircea_popescu Adlai afaik there was never in the entire history of bitcoin proposed some sort of credible / evidenced based interepretation of wtf it does. [04:52]
ben_vulpes for the first time ever my mpoe holdings are underwater [04:52]
ben_vulpes guess this means is hould sell, eh [04:53]
mircea_popescu Adlai: this roman doesn't seem to care much for his friends' feet. perhaps the shoe's pinch points would bother them too, if they were to walk long enough in the same shoes? <<< you know your crowd-* obsession is at some level based on the fundamentally evil notion that people are interchangeable. [04:53]
mircea_popescu people are not interchangeable. [04:53]
asciilifeform ^ [04:53]
asciilifeform whole point of the anecdote. [04:53]
mircea_popescu there isn't some sort of "us" that could just as well be a standin for any of us. [04:54]
Adlai people aren't interchangeable, but shoes (and artifacts of their ilk) are increasingly produced and repaired in an interchangeable manner [04:54]
mircea_popescu no mythical man month, because no mythical man, not because no mythical month. [04:54]
mircea_popescu Adlai this, because industry is increasingly a piece of shit. [04:55]
ben_vulpes yet somehow programmers are supposed to be a dime a doze? [04:55]
ben_vulpes dozen? [04:55]
Adlai dime a doze sounds closer to reality [04:55]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes the sort of "programmers" that "add features" should actually be charged to go to work. [04:55]
mircea_popescu like, gavin et all, should pay a daily fee to be allowed into the amusement park where they pretend like they matter [04:56]
mircea_popescu much like people pay to go to the theatre. [04:56]
mircea_popescu much like strippers and whores pay for their place of work, don't get paid by the landlord. [04:56]
ben_vulpes they are paying, the bill just isn't due yet. [04:56]
mircea_popescu i guess. [04:56]
bagels7 being a whore is > working minimum wage your whole life [04:59]
mircea_popescu depends. spinoza managed just fine on minimum wage. [04:59]
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ben_vulpes huh i think mine's wedged elsewhere [05:00]
ben_vulpes nope nm [05:00]
mircea_popescu chain reorg ? [05:01]
mircea_popescu "Despite being drowned in graceful donations and membership fees, they just keep piling new and new code without proper specification and proper testing, making mistakes or even forks inevitable and thus providing cover for abominable interests." [05:01]
mircea_popescu you know, jurov is actually a very talented historian. [05:02]
mircea_popescu i like his story best so far. [05:02]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923008 << a first step in some sort of appropriate direction could be http://organofcorti.blogspot.ru/2014/11/daily-and-weekly-bitcoin-transaction.html although that article doesn't go far enough for interesting results [05:03]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 02:49:52; mircea_popescu: Adlai afaik there was never in the entire history of bitcoin proposed some sort of credible / evidenced based interepretation of wtf it does. [05:03]
assbot Neighbourhood Pool Watch: Daily and weekly bitcoin transaction cycles [05:03]
mircea_popescu Adlai i meant, "wtf s.mpoe price does" [05:03]
mircea_popescu i thought that's what you were asking about. [05:03]
Adlai ah. well, both? [05:03]
ben_vulpes Adlai: bitcoin days destroyed is a good correlation to check too [05:05]
Adlai that, and block reward (fee amount, as opposed to fee count) [05:05]
ben_vulpes what's the thesis on block reward? [05:05]
Adlai not specifically relating to mpoe, more for possible next steps for analyzing bitcoin network activity metrics [05:06]
Adlai the article i linked looks just at confirmed transaction count, which is a narrow metric of all the stuff happening across the bitcoin network [05:06]
* Adlai looks at http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/ to place this activity in historical context [05:08]
assbot S.MPOE Analysis - Btc Alpha [05:08]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, qntra folks: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lenta.html [05:08]
assbot lenta [05:08]
mircea_popescu aha ? [05:10]
asciilifeform translation mine. very quick'n'dirty. [05:11]
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Adlai while people might not treat people as interchangeable, dama fortuna does. "shit happens", especially in warzones... is the revelation in this article supposed to be surprising? [05:14]
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* Adlai probably used the word "article" a little liberally there [05:14]
asciilifeform only to victims of usg cranial reformatting. [05:15]
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thestringpuller asciilifeform: qntra submission? [05:18]
asciilifeform http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/07/MH%2017%20flight%20paths_0.png [05:18]
asciilifeform ^ 'he ran into my knife! he ran into my knife - ten times.' [05:18]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: yes, nominated for consideration on qntra [05:18]
asciilifeform or however that goes. [05:19]
* asciilifeform has no idea [05:19]
thestringpuller cazalla ^^^ [05:19]
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asciilifeform and, [05:19]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-11-2014#917653 [05:19]
assbot Logged on 12-11-2014 00:20:12; mircea_popescu: i don't see you churning out an article a week about how "evil nato" and "nice putin" [05:19]
cazalla thestringpuller, not up to date on logs so no idea what this conversation is about yet [05:20]
asciilifeform message to moscow - can i pleez get thirty coins of silver now. [05:20]
asciilifeform cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923049 [05:20]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 03:06:23; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, qntra folks: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/lenta.html [05:20]
Adlai !b 18 [05:21]
assbot Last 18 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0FCDYXH.txt ) [05:21]
Adlai that is some impressive lazyness, cazalla. i like it. [05:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16402 @ 0.00043481 = 7.1318 BTC [+] [05:22]
cazalla Adlai, i read the logs daily, just yet to finish today [05:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 1249 @ 0.0012 = 1.4988 BTC [05:25]
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thestringpuller Adlai: cazalla has a media empire to run [05:25]
* Adlai is exponentially more likely to have read a log entry, according to the shortest path from the present moment back in time to the target entry, where b-a.com links are weighted roughly the same as simply reading backwards [05:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 0.5.3 and earlier have wallets, and all the concomittant braindamage... << the wallet code oughn't be snipped outright, but corralled. for later porting to msdos. [05:29]
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Adlai now that's an interesting hypothesis to test: a bot lurks and tracks "shortest path" to each past message, then records when i link it as opposed to somebody else links it to me [05:29]
asciilifeform (well, not necessarily msdos. any sufficiently deterministic system.) [05:29]
Adlai for increasingly stoned values of "interesting" [05:29]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-10-2014#894581 << that thread. [05:31]
assbot Logged on 25-10-2014 03:56:49; asciilifeform: the correct solution is that (now unix-only) turdcoind will listen on a tty. serial tty. [05:31]
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decimation asciilifeform: ideally in hardware, with physically separate ports [05:33]
thestringpuller can't ssh? no pts? [05:33]
Adlai https://imgur.com/cuVBhfh [05:34]
decimation thestringpuller: you want to ssh to your wallet? [05:34]
thestringpuller i ssh to my spending wallet [05:35]
thestringpuller but given buterin's waterfall I emptied it out [05:35]
cazalla asciilifeform, as much as i appreciate the translation (my primary school teacher died on mh17), it's a bit of a stretch for qntra to publish it as bitcoin news [05:36]
Adlai http://i.imgur.com/cuVBhfh << ie, "advertising costs, PR, and miscellaneous" outweighed "ipo fees" during these months [05:36]
cazalla i mean, i see the angle given governments but still [05:36]
Adlai *these last 15 months [05:37]
cazalla Adlai, i'm up to date on logs now btw [05:37]
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decimation how do these 'northern route' theorists discount the satellite contacts from the engine control systems? [05:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13737 @ 0.00042921 = 5.8961 BTC [-] [05:38]
Adlai or, in the king's english: MPOE needs to increase IPOs/¼ [05:39]
Adlai or mpex [05:39]
* Adlai can never quite tell the two apart, sorta like body/blood and bread/wine [05:39]
decimation asciilifeform: re: our conversation about uav control systems: http://intercepts.defensenews.com/2014/10/why-air-force-drones-rely-on-horsehair-to-land/ << "That’s because the MQ-1/9 are controlled on Ku-Band, which has a two second delay back to the States ... Because of that, launch and recovery experts — trained specifically at Creech AFB for this part of the operation — are based much closer to the area of operations and [05:40]
decimation use C-band, which has no delay. " [05:40]
cazalla it is interesting they release the images just as the g20 starts here in australia [05:40]
thestringpuller adlai that image won't load [05:41]
Adlai https://i.imgur.com/cuVBhfh.png?0 "MPOE Net Expenses" snipped from http://www.btcalpha.com/mpex/stocks/s-mpoe/#cash_flow [05:42]
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thestringpuller Adlai do you know about MPCD? [05:44]
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Adlai (link works through torify curl, not sure why anything else should fail) [05:44]
Adlai !s mpcd [05:44]
assbot 2 results for 'mpcd' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mpcd [05:44]
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thestringpuller yup [05:45]
Adlai mpcd = 1JPvucRfu3ZzEvfBUQTJwsxMrZjeTqD6zR ? [05:45]
decimation ;;ticker [05:45]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 394.74, Best ask: 395.71, Bid-ask spread: 0.97000, Last trade: 394.71, 24 hour volume: 18807.38370404, 24 hour low: 382.95, 24 hour high: 415.0, 24 hour vwap: 396.951568236 [05:45]
thestringpuller https://bitcointa.lk/threads/mpex-cdo-roll-call-for-bond-issuers.50044/#post-798717 [05:46]
thestringpuller For the reason MPCD failed, is likely the reason MPIF is struggling to find profit centers. [05:46]
thestringpuller Which effects the entire MPOE economy. [05:46]
thestringpuller MPEx* [05:47]
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asciilifeform ;;isup qntra.net [05:50]
gribble qntra.net is up [05:50]
asciilifeform odd. [05:50]
asciilifeform entirely dead here. [05:51]
assbot its been down for 20min [05:51]
joecool dead here too [05:51]
asciilifeform cazalla: if blob is unfit for qntra - whatever. [05:52]
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Adlai well, it looks like MPCD "failed" (the contract didn't fail, the shares "just" lost value) due to investing in what could be called "rockstar investors", who seem to make a habit of burning out spectacularly, taking half the fanbase with them [05:55]
Adlai more than any bug i've (inadvertently? subliminally coerced into?) introduced to scalpl, i regret the times that i've manually tweaked its trading parameters, and contaminated its performance data with human idiosyncrasies [05:56]
decimation qntra.net is dead here too [05:57]
decimation someone is messing with routing tables [05:57]
decimation trilema is dead too [05:58]
asciilifeform aha. [05:58]
decimation they are on neighboring subnets [05:58]
Adlai ;;isup qntra.net [05:59]
gribble qntra.net is up [05:59]
assbot log1 as well, same box afaik [05:59]
thestringpuller same problem decimation [05:59]
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assbot its probably our friend 'little numbers' as i call him. he visited bitbet earlier for a moment. [06:01]
decimation my router bounces from telia to an isp in pheomix called "cwie llc" [06:01]
decimation traceroute that is [06:01]
decimation s/phoemix/phoenix/ [06:02]
assbot phoenix? would be correct. [06:02]
decimation is that you kako? [06:04]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: can't ssh? no pts? << there is no reason why wallet should be routable to the net. [06:05]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: idea was - optoisolated point to point serial link. [06:05]
asciilifeform wallet - 'speaks when spoken to.' [06:05]
asciilifeform and not otherwise. [06:05]
asciilifeform and only when spoken to through the rx/tx wire. [06:05]
assbot would you believe me either way? [06:05]
decimation sure, if you responded as kako [06:06]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah that was my point.. just because something could be 'on the net' doesn't mean it should [06:09]
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thestringpuller asciilifeform: i understand [06:11]
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decimation !up cascadian_lurker [06:13]
* assbot gives voice to cascadian_lurker [06:13]
cascadian_lurker thanks d [06:14]
cascadian_lurker dunno how to tab complete on a pnohe [06:14]
decimation lol [06:15]
cascadian_lurker logs down? [06:16]
decimation log1 is down for me, log isn't [06:16]
cascadian_lurker I get no love at either endpoint [06:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26764 @ 0.00043157 = 11.5505 BTC [+] [06:24]
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assbot log2 anyone? [06:29]
assbot log1 is back [06:31]
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cazalla qntra is back [06:33]
decimation was the server down? [06:35]
cazalla not sure, i just f5 f5 f5 f5 like anyone else [06:38]
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BingoBoingo assbot: SKip 2, loge [06:46]
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cazalla when looking for news, i come across quite a few MLM schemes for bitcoin such as bitcoincycler.net, quite a few use pic/video of JuliaTourianski_ lol [06:46]
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cazalla putin v aussie pm - http://i.imgur.com/orNOUF5.png [06:47]
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decimation once when I emerged from the Tube in London I was handed one of those free tabloids by some bum. I was amazed at the extremely low quality writing, and pro-welfare ads [06:49]
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The20YearIRCloud Sport, decimation ? [06:51]
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decimation eh? [06:51]
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The20YearIRCloud Weekend/sunday/weekday sport [06:53]
decimation yeah I guess that's why people don't immediately toss in the rubbish bid [06:53]
The20YearIRCloud https://twitter.com/thesundaysport [06:53]
assbot Sunday Sport (@thesundaysport) | Twitter [06:53]
decimation eh, it could have been. I felt dirty touching the thing, didn't examine it closely [06:54]
The20YearIRCloud I love their 'articles', locally we used to have weekly world news, and it went under. However in the UK for some reason tabloids are HUGE there. Along with soap operas [06:54]
The20YearIRCloud http://www.sundaysport.com/?p=17812 [06:54]
assbot DRUNK BONKS DONER KEBAB | Sunday Sport [06:54]
decimation this stuff makes the daily mail look classy [06:54]
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The20YearIRCloud https://twitter.com/thesundaysport/status/531177165212360704 [06:56]
assbot Warning: Don't buff your ballbag on a shoe shine machine. Here's why - in tomorrow's /thesundaysport http://t.co/moIlQF7RUE [06:56]
decimation here's the american version http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/14/gruber-has-made-at-least-5-9-million-for-government-work/ [06:56]
assbot Gruber Has Made At Least $5.9 Million For Government Work | The Daily Caller [06:56]
The20YearIRCloud That's a website though i think, the sport is an actual magazine in most places [06:58]
decimation why don't they have tabloids based in say columbus? [06:59]
The20YearIRCloud We have a few in the US, and they're all celeb rags. We *had* WWN but they went under [07:00]
The20YearIRCloud We'll never know what happened to batboy unfortunately [07:00]
The20YearIRCloud They still have a site, but no one visits it : http://weeklyworldnews.com/headlines/54540/chicago-to-be-renamed-obama-city/ [07:01]
assbot CHICAGO TO BE RENAMED “OBAMA CITY” | Weekly World News [07:01]
decimation lol [07:01]
decimation The20YearIRCloud: do you do any business in franklin county? [07:03]
The20YearIRCloud Housewise? No, not a fan of their zoning & property inspection board. If we grow enough i'm sure i'll HAVE to go there, but for now i'd like to avoid it. [07:03]
The20YearIRCloud One of the counties we're in has virtually no permiting process for home repairs, if I did the stuff I'm doing there in Columbus I'd of had 5 figures worth of fines. [07:04]
The20YearIRCloud (Of course, I'd of got a permit in Franklin, but I hate the idea of it all). [07:04]
decimation do you think that's because they are in the union trade's pockets? [07:04]
The20YearIRCloud That wouldn't surprise me much, but they also have had coleman who is a ultra-liberal for years and years. [07:05]
The20YearIRCloud He's got a big claim to fame because he's good at 'renovating' poor districts, he does it by moving all the poor people from one neighborhood to another. [07:05]
The20YearIRCloud Downtown was a cesspool, then they kicked everyone out and made it so only rich could live there, alot of those moved to the short north. Then they did the same thing with the short north and all those people moved to Linden and Hilltop. [07:06]
decimation I've heard the short north is popular with the kids around osu [07:07]
The20YearIRCloud I had a house up there I was dealing with for someone, and I had roofers up there doing work. Zoning came by and complained that we hadn't bought the $100 permit, so they forced the guys off the roof even though it was going to rain soon and wouldn't let them put the tarp up there till there was a permit. [07:07]
decimation this as much as anyone 'owns' a house in the us [07:08]
The20YearIRCloud Well, you can drive 45 minutes outside of a columbus where you can buy land, build a smoke factory and the county asks for a $5 paperwork fee and literally nothing else [07:09]
decimation heh [07:09]
The20YearIRCloud So, if I can go into a neighborhood where they really don't want me there, and one where the city bends over backwards to try and help me out, i'll go with the second one [07:10]
The20YearIRCloud Especially if the yields in both are almost identical [07:10]
* AndChat|679296 is now known as RagnarsBitch [07:11]
decimation well, that's a fair point. [07:11]
decimation I imagine property tax in columbus and the 'burbs is sky high too [07:12]
The20YearIRCloud it's higher, it isn't astronomical though [07:12]
The20YearIRCloud A cheap house where we're working will run $450-$800 , same house in Columbus would be $1000-$1200 [07:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23499 @ 0.00042279 = 9.9351 BTC [-] [07:12]
The20YearIRCloud of course the scale of markets is quite different. In the 4 counties I expect to be able to find maybe 200 quality properties a year. In franklin I could find 200 a month easily. [07:13]
decimation for the quality of hovel you are buying and fixing, wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a few empty plots and buy some trailers or 'tiny homes' or whatever [07:14]
decimation I guess you gotta pay for utilities, etc in that case [07:15]
The20YearIRCloud You seen the houses we own? [07:15]
The20YearIRCloud I haven't delt with trailers yet, I want to but it's a different deal since you have to develop them out (including sewage) which is an EPA deal you can't get around easily. [07:15]
decimation I recall you saying a few months ago that they are all really old [07:15]
The20YearIRCloud Yeah, they are, but all are in good shape [07:16]
decimation yeah I guess where you are there is no water or sewage [07:16]
The20YearIRCloud It depends on where you want to do the trailer [07:16]
decimation septic systems are not cheap [07:16]
The20YearIRCloud Our first one was 2000sf, 5+br , 2ba, attached garage, built in 1880 and it turned out great [07:17]
The20YearIRCloud $10k-$20k [07:17]
decimation back in that time that would have been a mansion [07:18]
decimation or a multi-family house [07:18]
The20YearIRCloud Here's a bunch of random photos I had on my cellphone - https://www.dropbox.com/sc/rpzhm6eb5c14upe/AADe8OLgg4k-LFt2Xs3No9CEa [07:19]
The20YearIRCloud It would have been a medium/high level person's house. It's near downtown and is only a few houses away from a speakeasy that was in operation during prohibition. It sold recently (the speakeasy) for around $200k. [07:20]
decimation that's pretty nice inside actually [07:21]
decimation better than a trailer anyway [07:21]
The20YearIRCloud Those are 3 or 4 different houses [07:21]
decimation that first kitchen is nice [07:21]
decimation was that the amish fellows who cleaned it up? [07:22]
The20YearIRCloud I know I joke about owning slum houses, but they're all actually very nice. I underprice our rentals by maybe 5%-10% under normal market prices, and keep em in slightly better shape. [07:22]
The20YearIRCloud That first kitchen was the first complete rehab we did on a kitchen, every single thing there is brand new. [07:22]
The20YearIRCloud Second kitchen photo is from a duplex we just bought for $30k ($15k a side) [07:23]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform that flgiuht path thing is not nearly as indicative as it may seem to the casual observer. [07:25]
mircea_popescu flight paths in europe are seasonal. [07:25]
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mircea_popescu Adlai: now that's an interesting hypothesis to test: a bot lurks and tracks "shortest path" to each past message, then records when i link it as opposed to somebody else links it to me <<< actually a reconstruction of the ba logs where lines are nodes and they're given pr as per original google mechanism may be the first step towards stemming this whole bundle. [07:27]
Adlai right, but then you can look at properties of the graph's flow to draw wildly overzealous conclusions about the attentiveness and lazyness of real live humans [07:30]
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mircea_popescu decimation:trilema is dead too << still ? [07:37]
BingoBoingo http://m.tn.com.ar/deportes/tremendo/indignante-el-presidente-de-textil-mandiyu-le-robo-a-sus-jugadores-con-la-ayuda-de-los-barras_544582 [07:38]
decimation yeah it's still down for me [07:38]
mircea_popescu decimation: my router bounces from telia to an isp in pheomix called "cwie llc" <<< this sounds like a route hijack then. qntra is in amsterdam. [07:38]
decimation interestingly I'm getting pings through, very very slowly [07:38]
mircea_popescu what ip ? [07:38]
assbot qntra is on phoenix nap, amsterdam. [07:39]
mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2014/11/cfpbs-proposed-rules-governing-prepaid-cards-include-virtual-currency/ [07:39]
decimation is it hosted by 'secured servers'? [07:39]
mircea_popescu the heck can i see it then ? [07:39]
assbot ;;isup also everything even if it not a valid url [07:40]
gribble also everything even if it not a valid url is up [07:40]
mircea_popescu anyway, this is proving impossible to debug, people not seeing it pls to pastebin traceroutes at the time you don't see it. [07:40]
mircea_popescu uh so that's broken ? [07:40]
mircea_popescu ;;isup example.com [07:40]
gribble example.com is up [07:41]
decimation hehe yeah [07:41]
mircea_popescu gah [07:41]
decimation ;;isup isuck.com [07:41]
gribble isuck.com is up [07:41]
assbot "example.com" actually is up [07:41]
mircea_popescu internet needs a canoniucal down domain [07:41]
mircea_popescu ;;isup obamacare.com [07:41]
gribble obamacare.com is up [07:41]
decimation ;;isup canonicaldowndomain.com [07:42]
gribble canonicaldowndomain.com is down [07:42]
decimation lol [07:42]
mircea_popescu aha! [07:42]
assbot decimation yes its hosted there [07:42]
mircea_popescu http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923264 << srsly [07:42]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 05:39:46; mircea_popescu: aha! [07:42]
mircea_popescu so how the fuck then! [07:42]
decimation well they have a pheonix pop [07:42]
* yhwh__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [07:42]
decimation who knows how shit gets routed [07:43]
BingoBoingo ;;isup test.down [07:43]
gribble test.down is down [07:43]
assbot that entry is wrong, its routed just fine to ams [07:43]
mircea_popescu assbot : pm lol [07:43]
mircea_popescu also, re earlier discussion : http://i.imgur.com/0C5fmGB.jpg [07:44]
decimation is that your picture of an ohio hovel? [07:44]
mircea_popescu lol [07:45]
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mircea_popescu http://23.235.236.98 [07:46]
decimation yeah qntra is up [07:46]
decimation I donno, it smells to me like a server problem [07:47]
* assbot gives voice to joecool [07:47]
joecool responding to ping for me, nothing else [07:48]
mircea_popescu how the fuck. the server has been up all along, the load is like 0.1 or some shit for the hour. [07:48]
joecool mircea_popescu: nginx or whatever other server you use on it crashed? [07:48]
decimation interesting [07:48]
mircea_popescu joecool nope. [07:49]
mircea_popescu how the fuck would i see pages on a crashed server anyway. [07:49]
cazalla is that Bruno Kucinskas all there in the head? he reckons patrick murck raped like 30 kids [07:49]
mircea_popescu phin gage is a little strange. he does tons of research, some of which is useufl. [07:50]
Adlai ;;isup http://dead.link/ [07:51]
gribble http://dead.link/ is down [07:51]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923258 << localhost:0 [07:52]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 05:39:14; mircea_popescu: internet needs a canoniucal down domain [07:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00043684 = 18.5657 BTC [+] {2} [07:53]
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mircea_popescu ;;isup localhost:0 [07:54]
gribble localhost:0 is up [07:54]
mircea_popescu so muh for that idea. [07:54]
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Adlai ;;isup http://localhost:0/ [07:56]
gribble http://localhost:0/ is up [07:56]
Adlai hmph. [07:56]
Adlai curl: (7) Failed to connect to localhost port 0: Connection refused [07:56]
* Adlai wonders what's running on... some server [07:56]
assbot ;;isup adlais penis [07:57]
gribble adlais penis is up [07:57]
BingoBoingo !b 3 [07:57]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1MAK2HC.txt ) [07:57]
assbot ha, im unbashable [07:58]
BingoBoingo lol [07:59]
decimation the server is up, it looks to me that there is at least one route that is being ddosed/constantly reset [07:59]
* Adlai was wondering about ;;isup's server, should've !b5ed for that context [08:00]
mircea_popescu decimation the best i can come up with is that yes, some weakly router that is nevertheless for insane unexplainable reason priority route from the us is constantly fucked up [08:00]
mircea_popescu and im not even sure that i can do anything about it other than write angry letters. [08:00]
decimation yeah probably not [08:00]
decimation someone might have figured out how to trip the 'anti-ddos rate-limit' trap [08:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3784 @ 0.00042279 = 1.5998 BTC [-] [08:01]
BingoBoingo At this rate we might need a router foundation! [08:01]
mircea_popescu why does it only catch you folk ? [08:01]
decimation I donno. if there is some theoretical anti-ddos filter, it might try to limit its action to certain subnets? [08:02]
mircea_popescu maybe ? [08:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, i'm having this looked into, but i tell you i dun even know wtf. [08:02]
* BingoBoingo hasn't had trouble accessing qntra in quite a while a few hundred miles from geographic center of USia [08:04]
decimation yeah in theory the internet has all kinds of redundant routing, in practice there are many chokepoints it would seem [08:04]
Adlai lizard nazis probing the turmite colony's readership habits [08:04]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo so can you load it right now ? [08:05]
BingoBoingo Yeah, loads all kinds of fast [08:05]
mircea_popescu dude srsly... [08:05]
RagnarDanneskjol i just tried it from multiple IPs in US and EU - no luck here [08:06]
decimation I can get to qntra, but not trilema [08:06]
joecool qntra works from romanian ip [08:07]
decimation ah, now trilema works for me [08:07]
mircea_popescu o.O [08:07]
joecool lets try some other countries [08:07]
mircea_popescu joecool of course, i'm in argentina... [08:07]
mircea_popescu decimation this sporadic working no working would seem to mean route. [08:08]
joecool works from UK [08:08]
decimation yeah it could be some kind of route poisoning [08:09]
mircea_popescu the future of ba is point to point cabling it'd seem. [08:09]
decimation no - shortwave [08:09]
Adlai works now. [08:09]
Adlai (from tel aviv) [08:09]
joecool works back in 'murica now [08:10]
joecool they're onto us [08:10]
mircea_popescu maybe it's bitchbased. [08:10]
BingoBoingo Ass end of my traceroute to qntra.net http://dpaste.com/1QTVGPF [08:11]
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BingoBoingo 1up fivezerotwo [08:12]
BingoBoingo !up fivezerotwo [08:12]
* assbot gives voice to fivezerotwo [08:12]
joecool BingoBoingo: looks same as mine except i have a ??? between the last two [08:13]
fivezerotwo hello again. so assbot appears to be hosted on this server, interesting [08:13]
fivezerotwo have fun figuring out what this attack is ^_^ [08:13]
assbot not rly. [08:13]
fivezerotwo assbot, well it was taking a while to respond here [08:13]
Adlai !s fivezerotwo [08:14]
assbot 154 results for 'fivezerotwo' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=fivezerotwo [08:14]
assbot im a slow typist. [08:14]
fivezerotwo lol [08:14]
* Adlai toils and link graph bubbles [08:15]
* Namworld has quit () [08:17]
mircea_popescu In the beginning there was assembler. And programming was hard. The semantic gap between how humans think about problems and what we knew how to tell computers to do was vast; our ability to manage complexity was deficient. And in the gap software defects did flourish, multiplying in direct proportion to the size of the programs we wrote. [08:21]
mircea_popescu And the lives of programmers were hard, and the case of their end-users miserable; for, strive as the programmers might, perfection was achieved only in toy programs while in real-world systems the defect rate was nigh-intolerable. And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. [08:21]
mircea_popescu this is the stupidest thing i ever read. [08:21]
mircea_popescu i have NEVER and I do mean NEVER saw programs as good as bacxk in the days of asm. [08:21]
mircea_popescu i don't even think code as tight can still be made, much like you can't have a proper boot made anymore, and hardly a proper suit of clothes. [08:21]
mircea_popescu certainly not a top hat. [08:22]
mircea_popescu anyway, maybe their lives were harder, but 1960s programmers certainly seem happier. [08:22]
mircea_popescu perhaps because asm hard is the proper sort of hard. whereas dependency hell and library cruft is the horribly bad sort of hard. [08:23]
decimation well, the systems were small enough to 'fit in the head' as ascii might say [08:23]
mircea_popescu climbing a mountain versus diving in a septic tank sort of hard. [08:23]
Adlai !s bacxk [08:23]
assbot 2 results for 'bacxk' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bacxk [08:23]
Adlai oh it's a typo [08:24]
assbot !b 3 [08:25]
mircea_popescu lol you ocd soul you. [08:25]
assbot ;;echo !b 5 [08:26]
gribble !b 5 [08:26]
assbot Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3WFTZ0G.txt ) [08:26]
assbot nope, not satisfactory [08:27]
mircea_popescu ;;echo !echo ;;echo !b 18 [08:27]
gribble !echo ;;echo !b 18 [08:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00042279 = 5.6442 BTC [-] [08:27]
mircea_popescu ;;google horatiu capastru [08:30]
gribble Iunie 2009 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; Gandesc, deci gandesc pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: [08:30]
Adlai ;;google recursion [08:30]
gribble Recursion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Recursion (computer science) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Recursion -- from Wolfram MathWorld: [08:30]
Adlai hm, no link to the google results page? [08:30]
thestringpuller ;;isup qntra.net [08:33]
* Adlai is talking about "Did you mean: recursion " [08:33]
gribble qntra.net is up [08:33]
thestringpuller qntra still down for anyone in US? [08:33]
mircea_popescu is it for you ? [08:33]
thestringpuller yessir [08:33]
decimation qntra.net is down for me now, trilema too [08:34]
fivezerotwo mircea_popescu, it's down, I'm sure. http://check-host.net/check-http?host=qntra.net [08:34]
* mircea_popescu shrugs [08:35]
TheNewDeal bitbet is raging on [08:35]
thestringpuller http://dpaste.com/3H14489.txt << when asking coinbase about buterin's waterfall [08:39]
mircea_popescu lol why harassing indians. [08:40]
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Adlai thestringpuller: why not link in http://qntra.net/2014/11/bip-65-revisiting-nlocktime/ to the polished code? https://github.com/adlai/bitcoin/blob/polish/src/main.h#L397 [08:40]
assbot BIP-65: Revisiting nLockTime | Qntra.net [08:40]
mircea_popescu wait was this supposed to work ?! [08:41]
thestringpuller Adlai: i can't see the article yet so I can't answer the question [08:42]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller it's your article from yest [08:42]
mircea_popescu or w/e the 13th was [08:42]
* assbot removes voice from fivezerotwo [08:42]
Adlai or if you don't want to use the polish fork for some reason, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/main.h#L403 [08:43]
TheNewDeal !sideways fivezerotwo [08:43]
Adlai thestringpuller: BIP65 article, link to CTransaction::nLockTime [08:44]
thestringpuller yes I see. does it really matter? [08:44]
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thestringpuller just a uint32 variable I was trying to show [08:46]
Adlai nope [08:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't even think code as tight can still be made, much like you can't have a proper boot made... << oh but it can. [08:48]
mircea_popescu maybe. [08:49]
decimation asciilifeform: on new hardware? [08:49]
asciilifeform decimation: on whatever hardware. [08:49]
asciilifeform decimation: another generation or three of 'this', and hardware will look like the same shitfest as os/sw stack is now. fortunately 'this' doesn't have even one generation left in it. [08:50]
mircea_popescu so we hope. [08:51]
mircea_popescu if they find fusion, it does. [08:51]
decimation 'this' being the current state of computing? [08:51]
asciilifeform if they find fusion, laser wars between flying machines. [08:51]
asciilifeform hopefully everything is destroyed. [08:51]
thestringpuller hmm. am I on qntra blacklist? [08:51]
thestringpuller @mircea_popescu [08:51]
decimation I want my pocket laser gun [08:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.0004271 = 26.2453 BTC [+] {2} [08:52]
asciilifeform incidentally, for implications of working fusion, straight to: [08:52]
asciilifeform !s you and the atomic bomb [08:52]
assbot 8 results for 'you and the atomic bomb' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=you+and+the+atomic+bomb [08:52]
asciilifeform applies just as readily here as it did in 1945 re: fission. [08:53]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller it dun has a blacklist [08:53]
decimation imagine 'future war' where your squad as a 'laser machine gun'. In order to take the next hill, you need to lay down suppressing fire. the laser machine gunner opens up, and the enemy doesn't notice [08:53]
asciilifeform qntra dead here. [08:53]
decimation qntra is dead, but trilmea just popped up again [08:53]
asciilifeform lol, laser suppressing fire [08:53]
thestringpuller guess east coast thing [08:53]
asciilifeform what next, laser musketry volley? [08:53]
decimation maybe he can screw 'pew pew pew' [08:54]
thestringpuller ;;lasers [08:54]
gribble ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!* [08:54]
decimation s/screw/scream/ [08:54]
decimation I suspect that fusion-powered robots will be doing most of the fighting anyway [08:54]
Adlai asciilifeform: if you want to find when bitcoin started to have value, just look at when people began hoarding it: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/2881 suggests the april 2010 as the start of hoarding [08:54]
asciilifeform decimation: meatbags will still do 100% of the dying. [08:54]
decimation sure [08:55]
decimation plus robot ninjas are expensive [08:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17350 @ 0.00042279 = 7.3354 BTC [-] [08:55]
mircea_popescu what next, laser musketry volley? <<< srsly. what's this supression fire, like laser welding ? [08:56]
mircea_popescu Adlai what's this "start of hoarding" thing mean ? [08:56]
decimation I imagine there's going to have to be some kind of visible protocol, otherwise the enemy would simply be confused about what's going on [08:56]
mircea_popescu the first blocks mined are still unspent. [08:57]
asciilifeform the enemy can be reasonably certain of his own death. [08:57]
asciilifeform when it happens. [08:57]
mircea_popescu decimation if you could fire silent bullets you'd find loud ones because protocol ? [08:57]
decimation yeah, like full metal jackets [08:57]
mircea_popescu and wtf is "visible laser" anyway [08:57]
Adlai mircea_popescu: playing around with the magnitude of "valuable" in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922718 [08:57]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 00:41:00; asciilifeform: because it is the only one which existed upon the earth before bitcoin was valuable! [08:57]
mircea_popescu not like military grade laser will be like in star trek [08:57]
asciilifeform visible laser << rayleigh scattering. [08:58]
decimation right, one that transmits somewhere in the visible spectrum (to humans) [08:58]
asciilifeform switch on a toy green laser in dark room. [08:58]
Adlai max paranoia = starting around april 2010, at least one tla began stockpiling coins [08:58]
asciilifeform switch on large far-ir laser - also visible (!) - heated air [08:58]
decimation I suspect the first 'military laser' will be infrared [08:58]
mircea_popescu decimation you're late. the first military laser IS co2, uv. [08:58]
decimation heh yeah good point [08:59]
decimation but that wasn't really a man-portable system [08:59]
mircea_popescu it woulkd be uv and uuv anyway. higher energy better focus less scatter. [08:59]
asciilifeform which 'military laser' ? there are 1000. [08:59]
Adlai well, short of satoshi acting in a tla-ish manner, perhaps due to belonging to a tla himself [08:59]
mircea_popescu ;;ud tla [08:59]
gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=TLA | TLA is a three-letter-acronym for three-letter-acronyms. by uncle tom ... It always have been and will be Lucas and Peyton, TLA (True Love Always). by lp_tla ... [08:59]
decimation Something you could give to a grunt to replace his rifle [08:59]
mircea_popescu i doubt you will have man operated lasers anyway [08:59]
mircea_popescu it'd be 100% drones [08:59]
asciilifeform what the hell would be the point? [08:59]
mircea_popescu right ? [09:00]
decimation exactly [09:00]
asciilifeform i suppose it's hard to blow yer own brains out with a drone. [09:00]
asciilifeform although still doable. [09:00]
mircea_popescu why hard ? [09:00]
decimation or frag your lt [09:00]
asciilifeform incidentally, if 'cheap and compact source of infinite energy', the 'plasma rifle' from 'doom', etc. can exist. [09:01]
decimation actually this brings up a good point, why aren't 'silent guns' more popular in military circles [09:01]
Adlai "TLA is a three-letter-acronym for three-letter-acronyms." << i'd go as far as/cronyms/gencies/ [09:01]
mircea_popescu decimation because they can't be made. [09:01]
asciilifeform ionized atmosphere with laser, pump current through [09:01]
asciilifeform a la 'jacob's ladder. [09:01]
decimation are you saying that you can't use a silencer and a sub-sonic round? [09:01]
dub lockheed are buildinf fusion batteries now [09:01]
dub wont be long [09:01]
mircea_popescu so they claim yeah. [09:01]
asciilifeform decimation: the actual 'silent pistol' does not use a gas silencer. [09:02]
asciilifeform nor is it entirely silent [09:02]
mircea_popescu i suppose the next logical bezzle step is a tesla-lockheed merger [09:02]
asciilifeform (mechanical noise from the action. the bullet still whistles. etc) [09:02]
mircea_popescu just think, the promise of the electric car married to the promise of the fusion battery [09:02]
decimation yeah I agree they aren't 100% silent, but the advantages of silence seem to be large [09:02]
asciilifeform decimation: http://topwar.ru/21240-besshumnyy-patron-hm76-ssha.html [09:02]
asciilifeform that one. [09:02]
BingoBoingo are you saying that you can't use a silencer and a sub-sonic round? << Range and terminal energy at the target become huge problems this way [09:02]
asciilifeform gas stays in. [09:02]
mircea_popescu decimation swat / town warfare teams use supressed weapons [09:02]
mircea_popescu mostly so they don't bleed from the ears. [09:03]
decimation I suppose the idea that the 'standard grunt' is snaking up on someone is unlikely [09:03]
decimation s/snaking/sneaking/ [09:03]
decimation but snaking works too [09:03]
thestringpuller solid snake [09:03]
asciilifeform incidentally, if the magic fusor can be nudged into chain reaction, it's game over. [09:03]
decimation asciilifeform: what do you mean, like a fusion bomb? [09:03]
asciilifeform doesn't even matter if 99 in a hundred men who open theirs, die [09:04]
asciilifeform decimation: yes. [09:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not hard to make it limited. [09:04]
asciilifeform 'Had the atomic bomb turned out to be something as cheap and easily manufactured as a bicycle or an alarm clock, it might well have plunged us back into barbarism, but it might, on the other hand, have meant the end of national sovereignty and of the highly-centralised police state. If, as seems to be the case, it is a rare and costly object as difficult to produce as a battleship, it is likelier to put an end [09:05]
asciilifeform to large-scale wars at the cost of prolonging indefinitely a ‘peace that is no peace’.' [09:05]
asciilifeform make it limited << lol [09:05]
asciilifeform what has been limited by the hand of man, can be un-limited. [09:05]
mircea_popescu how ? [09:05]
Adlai thestringpuller: overall though i liked the bip65 article, it was worded neutrally enough that it could almost be tagged 'News' [09:05]
asciilifeform unless the case is one of 'intrinsic' safety a la fissile mechanics [09:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform has the hand of man enabled the disabled cores in an intel chip ? [09:05]
decimation right, the 'fissile' bomb runs out of fissile material [09:05]
mircea_popescu how do you add deuterium inside the core ? with an enema pump ? [09:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: give man a few days with ion beam workstation. [09:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you sit down and think about it for a bit, you can figure out six different methods. [09:06]
mircea_popescu yeah, and ? [09:06]
asciilifeform 'there is no safe that can be kept in the robber's living room.' [09:06]
mircea_popescu i'd rather think about kim's butt. [09:06]
mircea_popescu so would 99 men in a 100 [09:06]
asciilifeform aha but we just need the 1. [09:06]
dub kim dotcom? [09:07]
cazalla mircea_popescu, working but slowly http://pastebin.com/4XCDXVSi [09:07]
mircea_popescu well, let's ut it this way : the reason the state does not collapse in a tsunami of violence is not now nor was it ever historically that such would be physically impossible. [09:07]
mircea_popescu it is always that nobody can be bothered. [09:07]
cazalla well, qntra is intermittent for me [09:07]
mircea_popescu otherwise, see the experiences of the various members of the tsar's fambly with artisanal bombs [09:07]
asciilifeform what if herr frein spent his life contemplating how to rewire his fusor [09:07]
asciilifeform instead of marksmanship [09:07]
mircea_popescu dub no, the fat female kim. champagne assgirl. [09:07]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this curren state will collapse regardless. not a technical, but a policital problem. it just sucks. [09:08]
mircea_popescu nothing can save it. [09:08]
asciilifeform right now it takes more than one man, however enthusiastic, working in his basement for twenty years, to level a city. [09:08]
mircea_popescu not so [09:08]
mircea_popescu recall the case of the kid who built his own nuke [09:08]
mircea_popescu out of smoke detectors ? [09:08]
asciilifeform except he didn't [09:09]
decimation he just built a waste site [09:09]
mircea_popescu well, he didn't work for the full 20 years either. [09:09]
asciilifeform lovely legend, but fails kindergarten physics. [09:09]
decimation although thorium is a fissile material [09:10]
mircea_popescu the sad truth of the matter is that with the current state of manufacturing, i could build my own nuke. wouldn't even take a decade. [09:10]
asciilifeform at any rate, the operative boojum wouldn't be the demolition of a particular plot of real estate. [09:10]
mircea_popescu i can centrifuge my own uranium, there's plenty of places where it's directly exploitable etc. [09:10]
asciilifeform but a demonstration of 'with fiddybucks any discontented sod can now do it where he wants' [09:10]
mircea_popescu the fact that the iranians don't manage just shows how fucktarded htey are. it's by now a one man job. [09:10]
thestringpuller Adlai: i don't think it was tagged as news [09:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: use laser separation. [09:11]
mircea_popescu im not intending to lay out an actualrecipe here [09:11]
mircea_popescu just making the general point. [09:11]
asciilifeform 1/10000th the cost of conventional gas centrifuge. [09:11]
asciilifeform above is more or less the recipe [09:11]
decimation sorting out u235 from the other neutron spewing isotopes isn't trivial [09:11]
asciilifeform (u-235 and u-238 have different absorption spectra) [09:11]
mircea_popescu decimation the original bombs were'nt that classy. [09:12]
mircea_popescu they won a war [09:12]
mircea_popescu the much classier later versions won no war. [09:12]
mircea_popescu see what i mean ? [09:12]
asciilifeform actually iran tried to build laser separator. the men involved - died. and not of industrial accidents. [09:12]
TheNewDeal thats to be determined [09:12]
asciilifeform died of 'problems' [09:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform kinda what i mean by "inept iran" [09:13]
asciilifeform then they went on to the 'old classic' recipe, and made sure to run moar winblows. [09:13]
asciilifeform (literally) [09:13]
mircea_popescu state that can't build a pot is one thing. state that can't keep a secret however, deserves to die. [09:13]
Adlai !s feeling of power [09:14]
assbot 12 results for 'feeling of power' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=feeling+of+power [09:14]
Adlai excellent [09:14]
asciilifeform state that can't keep a secret << incidentally, notice that no complete 'dump' for ru nuke of whatever variety ever hit the net. [09:14]
cazalla mircea_popescu: certainly not a top hat. <<< maybe akubra? nfi on top hats but they have a solid rep [09:14]
Adlai specifically http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-04-2014#624410 [09:14]
assbot Logged on 14-04-2014 18:26:21; gribble: THE FEELING OF POWER by Isaac Asimov Worlds of Science ...: ; The Feeling of Power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; MathFiction: The Feeling of Power (Isaac Asimov) - Alex Kasman: [09:14]
mircea_popescu cazalla i know specifically what im talking about, because the last looms capable of making the required felt were destroyed a decade ago as part of a family feud. [09:15]
mircea_popescu the world has physically lost the capacity to produce top hats. [09:15]
mircea_popescu to me this is much worse news than the extinction of whatever stupid fish or crap [09:15]
decimation asciilifeform: of course stalin's agents were all over the us bomb as it was being made [09:15]
asciilifeform aha like the u.s. hbomb tamper foam. [09:15]
cazalla mircea_popescu, sounds familiar, this story on trilema? [09:16]
asciilifeform some of us here, imho, shall live to see the felt brought back. [09:16]
mircea_popescu cazalla not sure, mebbe not. [09:16]
cazalla something to do with looms is, that i know [09:16]
asciilifeform ;;google fogbank [09:17]
gribble FOGBANK - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Fog Bank: Capitola's Funnest Bar & Grille: ; Jeffrey Lewis • FOGBANK: [09:17]
asciilifeform ^ relevant [09:17]
decimation what about the homburg hat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homburg_%28hat%29 [09:18]
BingoBoingo http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/nov/14/rosetta-comet-dr-matt-taylor-apology-sexist-shirt#comment-43664788 [09:25]
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mircea_popescu oh for fucks sake [09:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41927 @ 0.00042729 = 17.915 BTC [+] [09:26]
mircea_popescu fucking idiot. [09:27]
asciilifeform exam - failed. [09:27]
mircea_popescu see, it's imbeciles like this that cause trouble. now the point will have to be carved out of some innocent women's skin that nobody gives a shit. [09:27]
mircea_popescu had he just pointed and laughed at the "offended" idiots we could have just moved on. [09:27]
mircea_popescu basically matt taylor is personally responsible for a few violent gangrrapes now. [09:28]
mircea_popescu we need to bully these autistic savants a whole of a lot more, can't be letting the libtards having all the fun. [09:30]
decimation yeah I don't get it, if your'e gonna wear a shirt with semi-naked women in front of an international audience, show some follow-through [09:30]
asciilifeform 'Knowledge can be lost. Sometimes this is perfectly reasonable: No one knows how to kill and skin a mastodon anymore, for obvious reasons. And cultures frequently lose knowledge as they evolve past it--you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who could write a computer program on punch-cards today. But there is something worrisome about misplacing knowledge that is only a generation or two old. And this happens mor [09:31]
asciilifeform e often than you might think. ... ... Space enthusiasts say, 'If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we put a man on the moon?' "The answer, Simberg explains, is that we can't "because most of the people who did it are in their dotage or dead, and a lot of it was more art than science."' [09:31]
asciilifeform ( http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/479avvbv.asp?pg=2 ) [09:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform im pretty sure i can still write on punch cards. [09:31]
asciilifeform not hard. [09:31]
asciilifeform bad example, not because of greybeards, but because of demented archaeologists like yours truly [09:32]
asciilifeform and i can hardly imagine a modern big-game hunter having any serious troubles with a mastodon. [09:32]
asciilifeform but i can sorta see the point he was trying to make. [09:32]
mircea_popescu i sorta can't. [09:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00043661 = 19.7348 BTC [+] {2} [09:33]
asciilifeform eh we just skinned a balloon, haven't we. [09:33]
mircea_popescu knowledge != technology. [09:33]
decimation asciilifeform: there's a good example of the 'art v. science' re: moon program here: http://eb-misfit.blogspot.com/2013/10/relighting-saturn-vs-f-1-rocket-engine.html?showComment=1381683061332#c1607749688683256926 "There were single welds on the engine that took all day to weld, by hand, and there were thousands of such welds. The engineers working on the new F1 copy say that theirs has less than 1/10th the parts of the original F1 [09:33]
decimation and should be easily mass produced. " [09:33]
mircea_popescu i still know how to make a felt hat [09:33]
mircea_popescu doesn't mean the machines still exist. [09:34]
decimation each saturn rocket was basically a metal art peice [09:34]
Vexual!*@* added to ignore list. [09:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6109 @ 0.00043769 = 2.6738 BTC [+] [09:34]
asciilifeform decimation: this is not actually uncommon at the 'what is the factory made of' level in industry. [09:34]
asciilifeform ultimately, there is no factory that churns out pilot plants [09:35]
mircea_popescu used to. nowadays it's pretty rare. [09:35]
asciilifeform craftsmanship all the way down, after a certain point. [09:35]
decimation there's a point there [09:35]
decimation someone has to program the robots after all [09:35]
asciilifeform much of what makes civilization tick, is not available off the shelf, and the entire notion is nonsensical. [09:36]
mircea_popescu whosoever programs the robots doesn't have to do so with chewing gum however. [09:36]
mircea_popescu the fact that bitcoin .5.3 is full of spot welds is not a quality. [09:36]
punkman .notary status [09:37]
punkman notary status [09:37]
notary punkman: 1 pending deed | Last bundle 6 hours and 14 minutes ago | 1 unconfirmed bundle [09:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imagine if, e.g., the 'golden gate' bridge had been built by a retarded child. out of match sticks. [09:37]
asciilifeform and it were still in use. [09:37]
punkman speaking of shitty code, thing's stuck again [09:38]
mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/RUvwvFk.gif [09:38]
decimation it seems to come down to a question of economics, it's generally cheaper to pay a master craftsman to labor over one item, but if one is building thousands it is worth the start-up cost of the robots [09:38]
asciilifeform decimation: except that none of this conceptually even applies to a computer program. [09:38]
decimation unfortunately no [09:38]
decimation one can imagine the software craftsman being aided by tools (likely of his own making) [09:39]
decimation but the idea of 'mass production software' is nonsensical [09:39]
thestringpuller !up fivezerotwo [09:39]
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mircea_popescu this "ctrl-c at console" business is so... hm. primitive. [09:41]
mircea_popescu in the positive sense of that term. [09:41]
punkman :) [09:42]
asciilifeform like a death certificate that reads 'stopped breathing' [09:42]
mircea_popescu nah, more like a hmm.... [09:42]
punkman so electrum is blocking forever when I try to send a tx, then the tx sending thread gets stuck [09:42]
mircea_popescu nah, more like a retarded athlete who, after a majorly incredible game where his team won very closely or lost very closely is like [09:43]
mircea_popescu "well... we lost" [09:43]
mircea_popescu myeah dude. [09:43]
thestringpuller $conference [09:44]
empyex thestringpuller: Next conference starts in 5 months and 2 days. Estimated cost today: 3.31292039 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ ) [09:44]
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asciilifeform re: top hats: i vaguely recall that the planet lost the capacity to make toothpicks for a few months at some point in '09 (?) [09:45]
asciilifeform chicom firm cornered the market, the story went, to the point of total monopoly - then went bust [09:45]
RagnarDanneskjol punkman i think eventually you're gonna ahve to ditch electrum and run a daemon - these issues are somewhat known and why deedbot 1.0 replaced it w/ api [09:45]
asciilifeform perhaps i dreamed all of this. [09:45]
punkman RagnarDanneskjol: oh deedbot1.0 tried to use electrum? [09:46]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Clam one of yours? [09:46]
RagnarDanneskjol yes [09:46]
RagnarDanneskjol went through several versions [09:46]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo sorry ? [09:47]
RagnarDanneskjol the last one actually works perfectly fine - just was on unsecure server [09:47]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: From the gif where it did the salt licking [09:47]
punkman RagnarDanneskjol: well it didn't actually verify deeds [09:47]
asciilifeform salt?! [09:47]
RagnarDanneskjol how's that? [09:47]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ah no, bounty of teh internets. [09:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes. salt. [09:48]
* asciilifeform wanders off to consider this. [09:48]
fivezerotwo thanks thestringpuller [09:49]
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mircea_popescu "This muddle finally hurts those following in the researcher's path. Long after he has his Ph.D. or his tenure, inquiring students will be put off by the document he has left behind. He seems to have solved everything already, so the report says, yet there is no tangible evidence of it besides the report itself." [09:56]
mircea_popescu oh brother... [09:56]
notary Confirmed bundle 1NUkX9oL with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1NUkX9oLgWDpzWanrsxKdgUqs7JaRUKG4u [09:57]
BingoBoingo http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/polygraph-com-owner-accused-of-training-customers-to-beat-the-polygraph/ [09:57]
mircea_popescu this is actually the fundamental problem with western academia. the self-licking icecreamcones problem is just a convenient frosting over this, but the point remains that even should that matter be solved, as it trivially would be solved - by say a stalin, which is always cheap [09:57]
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mircea_popescu nevertheless academia would STILL be fundamentally broken to the point of complete dysfunction. [09:57]
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RagnarDanneskjol http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2660293 [10:13]
RagnarDanneskjol [Founding Digital Currency on Secure Computation] [10:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23272 @ 0.00042858 = 9.9739 BTC [-] [10:20]
cazalla RagnarDanneskjol, meh not promoting something that thinks "When a user wants to create an address, the user provides her identity to an IVS. The IVS checks that the provided identity is the identity of a real person who can be located and be accountable if illegal activity is detected, similar to existing Bitcoin payment systems such as Coinbase." is a good idea [10:28]
RagnarDanneskjol they have some lame and some rather novel ideas in there [10:30]
notary Confirmed bundle 1MH7Ri8j with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1MH7Ri8jmVKWouMdUijZQoH4hsZQb2txq2 [10:32]
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Adlai you wouldn't say that militaries are still churning out pilot plants, but the automation/control balance of piloting itself has shifted? [10:36]
Adlai (that was re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#923619 ) [10:37]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 07:32:47; asciilifeform: ultimately, there is no factory that churns out pilot plants [10:37]
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RagnarDanneskjol lols http://open.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/embracing-https/?_r=2 [10:53]
RagnarDanneskjol !up Vexual [10:57]
* assbot gives voice to Vexual [10:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36210 @ 0.00042725 = 15.4707 BTC [-] {2} [11:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23040 @ 0.00042362 = 9.7602 BTC [-] [11:04]
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RagnarDanneskjol https://www.spark.io/ [11:05]
punkman RagnarDanneskjol: similar thingie https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11395 [11:11]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "It appears he's list 5 billion since June 30th" << lost ? [11:58]
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BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Probably? Where to fix? [12:08]
mircea_popescu your article re buffet [12:08]
mircea_popescu http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/10/24/buffet-problems/ [12:09]
assbot Buffet Problems | Bingo Blog [12:09]
BingoBoingo Ty, fixed [12:09]
mircea_popescu and with that, it is time for ass! [12:10]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [21:02]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [21:02]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [21:02]
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mircea_popescu1 hmm, is freenode being ddosed again or what ? [21:03]
* #bitcoin-assets :Cannot send to channel [21:03]
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chanserv op mircea_popescu [21:03]
-ChanServ- Channel mircea_popescu is not registered. [21:03]
chanserv op mircea_popescu #bitcoin-assets [21:03]
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chanserv op #bitcoin-assets mircea_popescu [21:03]
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mircea_popescu meh, is freenode being attacked or what [21:03]
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mircea_popescu kakobrekla yo! [21:04]
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mircea_popescu TheNewDeal [21:08]
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TheNewDeal gracias [21:08]
mircea_popescu np [21:08]
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* mircea_popescu gives channel operator status to assbot [21:19]
TheNewDeal assbots back, simply amazing [21:19]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [21:19]
mircea_popescu hey there buttboy! [21:19]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla you know, assbot totally should respond to buttboy [21:19]
mircea_popescu in other news : http://pastebin.com/S4fwBbpQ [21:21]
assbot Return-path: Envelope-to: * Delivery-date: Sat, 15 Nov 201 - Pastebin.com [21:21]
mircea_popescu and jurov thought HE had issues with whitespace via email. check out this kiddie, 100+ 0x20s [21:21]
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Anduck .deed [21:24]
punkbot Anduck: (deed [url]) -- search [url] for signed deeds and queue them. [21:24]
Anduck o [21:24]
Anduck .help deed [21:24]
punkbot Anduck: (deed [url]) -- search [url] for signed deeds and queue them. [21:24]
mircea_popescu punkman no moar notary ? [21:24]
* #bitcoin-assets :Cannot send to channel [21:24]
Anduck fine, fine. dont help me damn ass bot [21:24]
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mircea_popescu punkman no moar notary ? [21:25]
mircea_popescu Anduck one sec ill fish out an example for you. [21:25]
Anduck mircea_popescu: does it cost to use deed service? [21:25]
mircea_popescu not yet./ [21:25]
mircea_popescu donation powered so far. [21:25]
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* assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal [21:25]
Anduck alright [21:25]
Anduck sounds pretty good as in it doesn't shit the chain [21:25]
Anduck at least compared to the others... [21:25]
mircea_popescu Anduck 15-11-2014 01:09:45 .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=eJhsu4D5 << like so. [21:26]
Anduck thx [21:26]
mircea_popescu yeah it's well designed. [21:26]
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Anduck well, who holds the database? [21:26]
Anduck is it decentralized? it doesnt have to be but it'd be great if it was [21:26]
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mircea_popescu you can dld your own copy. otherwise, punkman is maintaining the deedbot service. [21:27]
Anduck remember the link for copy? [21:27]
mircea_popescu shit. [21:27]
Anduck i checked deeds site, didnt even see an api [21:27]
mircea_popescu it doesn't have an api, but you can get json/rss iirc. [21:27]
Anduck mm [21:28]
Anduck true [21:28]
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mircea_popescu punkman i forget, how does one download the bundles ? [21:29]
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punkman there are links bottom of bundle page [21:30]
punkman and code is here https://github.com/extempore/deedbundler [21:30]
assbot extempore/deedbundler · GitHub [21:30]
mircea_popescu nubbins` THERE ARE NO HUNGRY PEOPLE WHERE I LIVE << lawl. [21:30]
n6 Namworld nanotube Naphex nezZario nhanH nick1234abcd NormDePloome [21:30]
n6 Namworld nanotube Naphex nezZario nhanH nick1234abcd NormDePloome [21:30]
mircea_popescu o there you are. [21:31]
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mircea_popescu so wha' happened to notary ? and can the main address: 1LAwrWMbPLLSpt7nkD5Jv1Yf4cwPhD98ny | contact: punkman@freenode get a count of deeds added in the middle ? [21:31]
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punkman mircea_popescu: it disconnected and had to use alt name, guess I should set it up to revert to notary [21:32]
mircea_popescu xanthyos: so coinbase gets 4 full days to abort my purchase, which they will, if the prices goes up, and they won't if it levels or drops. with btc market volatility they have a sure thing <<< not really, because a) there's not so many people ike you, actually using them and b) the respective 0.2 bitcents or w/e add to about enough to buy me a steak. [21:32]
Anduck .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CKWWskHB [21:34]
punkbot Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:34]
mircea_popescu xanthyos: california is a scam state and hollywood has used its media to convince the world that it doesn't suck there, but it really does <<< this is by design. cute but stupid 17 yo chick from minesota goes to cali to be rich and famous, has to confront the unexpected situation where being homeless there sucks so as to eagerly overcome her education and suck cock. [21:34]
Anduck hmm:( [21:34]
Anduck .deed add http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CKWWskHB [21:34]
punkbot Anduck: Error: 'add' is not a valid http url. [21:34]
mircea_popescu if she knew about the knife she perobably wouldn't run there. [21:34]
mircea_popescu Anduck no add in the examplke i gave you [21:34]
Anduck mircea_popescu: as you saw, i tried without first [21:34]
mircea_popescu ah yes. [21:34]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust assbot anduck [21:35]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask Anduck!~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck. Trust relationship from user assbot to user anduck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 5 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=anduck | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=anduck | Rated since: Tue May 8 11:28:43 2012 [21:35]
mircea_popescu o.O did you find a bug ? [21:35]
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mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/X8aNSdsY [21:38]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [21:38]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:38]
assbot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, This is deeds.bitcoin-a - Pastebin.com [21:38]
nubbins` it verifies [21:38]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=X8aNSdsY [21:38]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:38]
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nubbins` and the fingerprint matches anduck's [21:38]
mircea_popescu nubbins` yup, and it verifies to his correct key. [21:38]
mircea_popescu yeah. [21:38]
mircea_popescu Anduck we thank you for your test, ye cursed by the gods :) [21:39]
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nubbins` yeah, interesting. [21:39]
punkman yeah good signature indeed, hmm [21:39]
mircea_popescu and if anyone wonders wtf, i tried to see what happens if i add a newline at the end. [21:39]
mircea_popescu but no dice. [21:40]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=krnmUkra [21:40]
punkbot nubbins`: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [21:40]
* nubbins` shrugs [21:40]
nubbins` something to do with your key or your relationship to someone [21:41]
nubbins` punkbot checks trust to assbot? [21:41]
mircea_popescu by spec it should. [21:41]
mircea_popescu but it objects that the MESSAGE is invalid. [21:42]
nubbins` ehh that's just what the error says [21:42]
Anduck well [21:42]
Anduck my educated guess: newlines problem [21:43]
mircea_popescu nubbins`: i won't know when the pan is hot enough! << look at the oil. [21:43]
mircea_popescu eventually you will be able to tell, just by looking [21:43]
mircea_popescu (your eye does see ir. you just don't mentally see it, but you do see it. [21:43]
nubbins` yeah i wait for first wisps of smoke now, but viscosity is a good judge [21:44]
mircea_popescu that entire "can't distinguish hot glass from plain glass is bunk. you can, just need to look at it) [21:44]
nubbins` as well [21:44]
nubbins` Anduck i'm not so sure [21:44]
nubbins` i copy/pasted your deed text to my machine, signed it, and it worked [21:44]
mircea_popescu wow that's interesting huh [21:45]
nubbins` now tbf copypasta has its own newline quirks i'm sure [21:45]
nubbins` but i think punkman covered all bases w.r.t. newlines [21:45]
nubbins` Anduck try signing a single line of text [21:46]
punkman only explanation is the bot doesn't have your key [21:46]
nubbins` how does the bot get keys [21:46]
punkman fetches from sks [21:47]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW [21:47]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:47]
mircea_popescu o.O [21:47]
mircea_popescu no. the signature block fucks up something [21:47]
mircea_popescu maybe something as idiotic as "one line starts with slash" or w/e. [21:47]
nubbins` oh, i just took his original text, not the block [21:47]
nubbins` huh [21:47]
nubbins` ineresting [21:47]
nubbins` +t [21:47]
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nubbins` Anduck i guess try signing any other message and submitting it [21:48]
punkman mircea_popescu: I think problem with that is that it stops at nested END PGP SIGNATURE, instead of the outer one [21:48]
nubbins` hmm [21:48]
punkman but I remember testing that case [21:49]
nubbins` sounds like a regex fix [21:49]
punkman guess I didn't [21:49]
nubbins` END PGP SIGNATURE-----
$ or smth
[21:49]
* nubbins` always has to look that stuff up [21:49]
mircea_popescu nubbins` no lol, cuz no
in spec :D
[21:49]
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mircea_popescu punkman it stops at the commented out one ? [21:50]
mircea_popescu ye - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ? [21:50]
punkman yeah, I know how to fix that [21:50]
mircea_popescu kk [21:50]
punkman but why the hell is Anduck's key missing [21:50]
punkman should have been there when I bootstrapped pubring [21:50]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/29Ed1j5b [21:51]
punkbot nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:51]
mircea_popescu jurov: when cooking with olive oil, i can say by smell it's right temp << also butter yeah. [21:51]
assbot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com [21:51]
nubbins` oops [21:51]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=29Ed1j5b [21:51]
punkbot nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:51]
nubbins` ok yep nesting breaks [21:51]
nubbins` still doesnt explain anduck's weirdness [21:52]
Anduck ._. [21:52]
joecool prob threw finncrypt at it [21:52]
joecool breaks everything [21:52]
nubbins` Anduck try another deed, would be nice to see if that was a problem with your key or your deed [21:52]
Anduck ok [21:52]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1i7QYM8g [21:53]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:53]
mircea_popescu HA! [21:53]
Anduck .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sgyrnSKb [21:54]
punkbot Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:54]
Anduck deed ?!?? [21:54]
Anduck do i need to have this same text somewhere else [21:54]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tuWJ5TrH [21:54]
punkbot nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:54]
nubbins` haha it's the forward slash at the start of a new line. [21:55]
mircea_popescu aha! [21:55]
mircea_popescu my intuition!111 [21:55]
Anduck heh [21:55]
Anduck confirm it. [21:55]
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mircea_popescu now we throw eggs at punkman :D [21:55]
nubbins` heh [21:55]
nubbins` Anduck you could probably just add a whitespace char to your original text, sign it, it'll work [21:56]
mircea_popescu nubbins` clearsign doesn't produce the same signature on the same text btw. [21:56]
Anduck let's see [21:56]
nubbins` o no? [21:56]
nubbins` well til [21:56]
mircea_popescu think about it. [21:56]
mircea_popescu if it did, your messages would be brittle. [21:56]
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nubbins` i'm still only functionally literate wrt pgp [21:58]
mircea_popescu jurov: when RT invites amir taaaki as bitcoin expert, it's clear what they are up to, but when they pull some "dutch expert" it's suddent sacrosanct truth <<< lol he got you there asciilifeform [21:58]
Anduck .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU [21:58]
punkbot Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:58]
mircea_popescu bwhahaha [21:58]
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Anduck i guess [21:59]
Anduck hmm.. [21:59]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=vGkqhFr0 [21:59]
punkbot nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [21:59]
nubbins` o.O [21:59]
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Anduck .deed anduck.net/ducktest.txt [22:00]
punkbot Anduck: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [22:00]
nubbins` looks like it's expecting a very limited charset for that first char [22:00]
mircea_popescu apparently. [22:00]
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punkbot Confirmed bundle 13u9WbT7 with 1 deed | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/13u9WbT7N8WeBAH2kKrvkrPESenDMBpLMU [22:01]
nubbins` .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sPzaFq8s [22:01]
punkman I think I may have borked permissions of gpg dir just now [22:01]
punkbot nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [22:01]
nubbins` WHAT. [22:01]
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nubbins` |0| [22:01]
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mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: can anyone remember the title of that trilema article where mircea_popescu discloses how much he sold that 5% chunk of mpex for? << http://trilema.com/2013/smpoe-takes-strategic-investor/ ? [22:03]
assbot S.MPOE takes strategic investor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [22:03]
mircea_popescu !up supay [22:03]
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mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: modesty the likes of which would shock a johnny come lately reader << But within that basic framework there are many subtle variations, only discernable to an acute observer, that reflect the many moods, the many shades, the many sides of MP! [22:05]
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mircea_popescu (this is morning mist) [22:06]
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mircea_popescu pete_dushenski:"where's the $1.5mn funding for nanotube's WoT" << perhaps you don';t understand what "a protocol for decentralized and password-less authentication" means. [22:08]
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mircea_popescu nubbins`: (CIS = http://imgur.com/5uggnbK ) <<< lawl. [22:10]
assbot imgur: the simple image sharer [22:10]
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punkman .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU [22:11]
punkbot punkman: Error fetching URL: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=JZQ0PkwU (HTTP Error 404: Not Found) [22:11]
assbot Pastebin.com Unknown Paste ID [22:11]
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punkman .deed http://anduck.net/ducktest.txt [22:12]
punkbot punkman: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [22:12]
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mircea_popescu | 34 | Gavin Andresen | 0 | << not in forum trust list ; | 33 | OgNasty | 1 | << in forum default trust list. [22:12]
punkman yeah your key was missing for some reason [22:12]
mircea_popescu so much lulz. [22:12]
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mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=X8aNSdsY [22:13]
punkbot mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [22:13]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW [22:13]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [22:13]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=X8aNSdsY [22:14]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: dupe) [22:14]
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mircea_popescu so... wait. [22:14]
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mircea_popescu ah nm. [22:14]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=1i7QYM8g [22:14]
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punkbot mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [22:15]
mircea_popescu punkbot deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW [22:15]
punkbot mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [22:15]
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mircea_popescu so basically only http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XKAbVPzW is still weird. [22:15]
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punkman will put that on todo list [22:16]
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mircea_popescu - Expenses: 1505 (1257 Slickage, the rest mostly mods) << according to theymos, tardstalk has spent half a million dollars to one million this year. [22:17]
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punkman on another message he says he's spent $350k on Slickage [22:18]
punkman https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=451893.0;all [22:18]
assbot LEAKED - Latest status on forum software [22:18]
mircea_popescu what's slickage ? [22:19]
punkman some web developers [22:19]
mircea_popescu someone paid 350k to "web developers" ? [22:19]
mircea_popescu lmao [22:19]
mircea_popescu ;;rated theymos [22:19]
gribble You have not yet rated user theymos [22:19]
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punkman ;;rate thermos -5 [22:20]
gribble Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings. [22:20]
mircea_popescu ;;rate theymos -10 defrauded the tardstalk community by throwing ~half a million dollars worth of BTC at some obscure service provider for kickbacks. a lenghty history of fraudulent behaviour, http://trilema.com/2012/scammer-tag-nefario-theymos-others-known-and-unknown/ [22:21]
assbot Scammer tag : Nefario, theymos, others known and unknown pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [22:21]
gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of -10 for user theymos has been recorded. [22:21]
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punkman well don't know if that quote is real [22:23]
punkman but either way [22:23]
mircea_popescu he does mention the name in his "report" [22:23]
mircea_popescu http://www.crunchbase.com/organization/slickage-studios << this thing. it never had 10k incoming in its lifetime. [22:23]
assbot Slickage Studios | CrunchBase [22:23]
punkman "let's make our own forum software, compete with SMF" [22:24]
punkman in node.js no less [22:24]
mircea_popescu unlike the SEC, MP actually is tough on fraud. [22:24]
* mircea_popescu waves @maryjo [22:24]
mircea_popescu jurov you don't understand how the nodes work! [22:26]
punkman https://github.com/slickage/epochtalk [22:26]
assbot slickage/epochtalk · GitHub [22:26]
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jurov i'm laughing because i do understand a bit [22:26]
punkman seems no commits since June [22:27]
mircea_popescu 2 contributors << lol. [22:27]
* jurov looks forward to Math.random pwnage [22:27]
mircea_popescu so basically the 1-10 man dev studio is exactly one guy. [22:27]
punkman and more derpage https://github.com/slickage/adness https://github.com/slickage/baron [22:27]
assbot slickage/adness · GitHub [22:27]
assbot slickage/baron · GitHub [22:27]
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punkman oh my bad they are still developing https://github.com/epochtalk/core [22:31]
assbot epochtalk/core · GitHub [22:31]
mircea_popescu adding core to something makes it better [22:31]
mircea_popescu like, punk was dead, but then punkcore! [22:32]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: what was his project (mentioned in the comment) ? <<< you perhaps recall i said at conference i want two things made, an advertising service and a jobs board. we had some initial discussions about it, we ran into a bunch of conceptual difficulties about how exactly to handle the job descriptions/contractual enforcement, which turned out a much more complex task than originally imagined, last was "we [22:34]
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mircea_popescu we'll have to think about this some more" and it's the last i heard from him on the topic. or in general, really. that was back in may. [22:35]
mircea_popescu anyway, the job board still needs to be made because this system where i drop something in chat and someone either happens to be here or happens to see it in logs is perhaps not optimal. [22:36]
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mircea_popescu on the other hand, it does provide proper incentive for noobs to read the thing, much to their benefit even if "they don't want to, because they know better", so whatevs. [22:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: is there, somewhere, a smoky bar where they down hard drinks and tell anyone who'll listen how 'it was all a sham11!1!' ? << not afaik, tho i'd like to have a hard drink myself. tho i imagine that'd ruin it huh. [22:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: this may also explain the disappearance of moiety and a few other folks. <<< it's not a bad theory in any sense. got any policy proposals based on it ? [22:40]
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punkman a bunch of conceptual difficulties about how exactly to handle the job descriptions/contractual enforcement << interesting in hearing some of those [22:41]
punkman *interested [22:41]
mircea_popescu punkman you familiar with the problems surrounding bitbet bets resolution ? [22:41]
mircea_popescu they [used to] spill out into here with some regularity. [22:42]
punkman well some of them at least [22:42]
mircea_popescu right. what do words "mean" ? and especially, what do contracts OBVIOUSLY mean. [22:42]
mircea_popescu this is not a trivial problem in any sense : http://trilema.com/2013/our-emperor-deliver-us/ [22:42]
assbot Our Emperor, deliver us. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [22:43]
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mircea_popescu "In support of their argument that the Agreement preserves liability only for malicious breaches, defendants argue that the word “willful” would be unnecessary unless it meant “malicious.” There is no reason to limit liability to breaches that are intentional, they claim, because any breach of this Agreement would be intentional—”heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not breach merger agreements out [22:43]
mircea_popescu of inadvertence, negligence, or mistake.” As a factual matter, this claim is questionable. It could just as well be said that heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not sign merger agreements containing glaringly ambiguous terms that lead to avoidable litigation—but here we are." [22:43]
mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel [22:44]
-assbot- You voiced gabriel_laddel for 30 minutes. [22:44]
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gabriel_laddel does anyone with experience with either gentoo or funtoo care to share their impression(s) of the projects? I'm interested in which group of devs is more intelligent, sane, etc. [22:44]
Anduck punkman: what was the error? [22:44]
mircea_popescu gentoo is well established, and currently my recommendation for noobs looking at linux. [22:45]
punkman Anduck: didn't have your key for some reason [22:45]
mircea_popescu Anduck therewas also an unrelated issue discovered, regarding first character on a line, so tyvm. [22:45]
punkman no slash character theory was silly [22:46]
punkman but problem with nested sigs [22:46]
mircea_popescu punkman no, because it failed on the test bundle above. [22:46]
mircea_popescu http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#924229 [22:46]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 20:12:52; punkbot: mircea_popescu: No valid deeds found, try again. Errors: (msg1: invalid) [22:46]
mircea_popescu meh wait, wrong one. [22:47]
mircea_popescu ah yes right you are, nm. [22:48]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: The whole idea that anything can be so "shared" as to have no value in itself is not a problem if the rest of the world ensures that nobody _is_ starving or needing money. <<< this is nonsense anyway. money is always needed, this is a scaling problem. average rat living in a hole in the middle east linking his pretenses to humanity to his possesion of an old cellphone someone lost may think ben_vulpes' l [22:53]
mircea_popescu ife is the end of want, having a wife and a house in the amerca!!! [22:53]
mircea_popescu however, ben himself wants a tower of hydrocarbons. [22:53]
mircea_popescu and if he gets it, he'll want something else. [22:53]
mircea_popescu there's no such thing as "not needing money" except for coma patients. [22:53]
mircea_popescu wanting is the sign of intellectual health, just like erections are the sign of reproductive health. if you're lying down with teh nekkid gals and get no pang to trash them around it doesn't mean you reached nirvana, it just means you're not long for this world. [22:54]
punkman http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/list-keys.txt plenty of 1024 keys [22:55]
jurov didn't we solve a yesterday's conundrum about nature of life? [22:55]
jurov ie.e life can be defined as anything that needs money [22:55]
jurov or maybe intelligent life... [22:56]
mircea_popescu kik [22:56]
mircea_popescu punkman put 1024 keys together with the irc nicks so i can send them a later tell ? [22:56]
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Anduck are 1024s yet bad? [22:57]
mircea_popescu best move on, yeah. [22:58]
Anduck well yup [22:59]
punkbot Confirmed bundle 1EWUaXVR with 3 deeds | http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/1EWUaXVRx4Mm94Q9m6J3BRN3TEjRcnmmuw [23:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: wage labour is wage labour, whether for usd, btc, or gold dubloons <<< this is an iffy proposition. [23:05]
mircea_popescu "wage labour" on fain, on a voluntary basis (internet work, add links, vote on links, comments -> collect points -> take out btc) had average monthly payments well over 1 btc. AVERAGE. [23:05]
mircea_popescu plenty of people took out 100 btc in one month. back then this was you know, a few hundred bucks, "wage". [23:06]
mircea_popescu they probably sold it, of course, but if they did not, they have a lot more liquid btc than say goat. [23:06]
mircea_popescu or any of the other talented folk that got in early, got out early. [23:06]
mircea_popescu so wage for btc is not unlike wage for stock warrants, ie, typical start-up work. [23:07]
mircea_popescu in any case : i do not exactly believe b-a is intended for the workaday people. let them put a decade in, build themselve financially to the position where they can participate in a start-up, and intellectually to the position where they actually aren't quite AS fucktarded as the average 20something. [23:08]
mircea_popescu because no, i don't credit for a minute this theory whereby the 20yo male is the be-all end-all hope-and-pride of humanity. [23:09]
mircea_popescu bitcoin isn't college sports. [23:09]
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mircea_popescu TheNewDeal: did not feel the need to argue the point that no on in their right mind wants to stock shelves at the Canadian superstore at 2am <<< why should they get a choice ? [23:12]
mircea_popescu obviously if that's the only job they can get they AREN'T in their right mind. so why should their unright mind get an option as to what it wants to do ? [23:13]
mircea_popescu not everyone's brain works, even if everyone's brain THINKS it does. [23:13]
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mircea_popescu nubbins`: getting tired of the bellicose rhetoric << "why can't we all just get along" ? [23:17]
mircea_popescu fuck me, i dun wanna get along with idiots. [23:17]
mircea_popescu it's not a matter of why or wherefore. i just do not wish to. [23:17]
mircea_popescu i suppose the one true source of trolling is exactly that. ironically enough, pankake was orignally selling himself as a troll for hire iirc. [23:19]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell peterl http://bablogs.btcscoop.com/ << seems empty ? [23:26]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:26]
assbot #bitcoin-assets blog posts [23:26]
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Anduck mircea_popescu: remember, the people who you call 'idiots' may be living a happier life than you [23:28]
Anduck so, are they idiots after all in that sense [23:28]
mircea_popescu yes. [23:28]
mircea_popescu im sure most of the cattle that i'm going to eat in my lifetime has also lived a pretty happy life, [23:28]
mircea_popescu according ot its own standards. [23:28]
mircea_popescu the notion that cattle gets to enact standards of happiness is beyond ridoinculous. [23:28]
Anduck sure but its funny that many really are happy [23:31]
Anduck they also know it [23:31]
mircea_popescu so good for em. [23:32]
mircea_popescu krugman prolly "really is an economist", at least if you ask him. [23:32]
Anduck xD [23:33]
Anduck oh, what do ya think of him [23:33]
Anduck well, his bitcoin speech [23:33]
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mircea_popescu Anduck you mean http://trilema.com/2014/this-is-how-much-i-rule-today/ ? [23:34]
assbot This is how much I rule (today) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [23:34]
Anduck i guess i cant read that one [23:34]
Anduck paywall i see =( [23:34]
mircea_popescu funny lol. guy from the public went up to bernadotte, after wagram, "o, what did you think of the archduke's order of battle!" [23:37]
mircea_popescu i think it sucked, lol. [23:37]
Anduck hmm [23:38]
Anduck mircea_popescu: you know the new monero/bitcoin rpg stuff by rpietila? [23:38]
mircea_popescu vaguely. [23:38]
Anduck thoughts? will you attend [23:39]
mircea_popescu i will not attend. [23:39]
Anduck ok. as it's question hour: thoughts about bitcoin short term (1-2 years) valuation? [23:40]
Anduck it's good to see how long bitcoiners see these last years of development [23:40]
* mircea_popescu shrugs. [23:40]
mircea_popescu you really need to go read the logs. [23:41]
Anduck there's too much of logs. [23:41]
Anduck seriously, even you wouldn't [23:41]
mircea_popescu i actually do. i imagine you have nfi idea what wagram is, either, but this gives you no pause, because you're happy without, right ? [23:42]
Anduck not relevant but yes i've zero idea of what a wagram is [23:43]
mircea_popescu right. well, carry on but if possible quietly. [23:43]
Anduck hehe [23:43]
Anduck so you would value my speech here if i knew what a wagram is? [23:44]
* RagnarDanneskjol (~ragnardan@75-23-231-33.lightspeed.lgngca.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:45]
* assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol [23:45]
* darlidada (~fruitareg@APuteaux-651-1-142-102.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:45]
Anduck good. as expected [23:46]
Anduck just remember: this is not how the world was built [23:46]
mircea_popescu the world was not built by ignorant twerps. your ideas about "the world" are about as well formed as your ideas about "wagram". both are meaningless symbols to you. about one, you arbitrarily delude yourself you have something to say. [23:47]
Anduck fine [23:48]
Anduck i don't agree but im fine with it [23:48]
mircea_popescu now stfu and go read the logs. [23:48]
Anduck i guess i already stated i won't read the logs because there's too much and i've got better ways to find out what i want to find out =) [23:49]
Anduck doesn't make me ignorant twerp, or does it? [23:49]
mircea_popescu yeah, it does. [23:49]
RagnarDanneskjol yes it does [23:50]
Anduck please, give me a third "yes it does" [23:50]
mircea_popescu kids, you know ? tries to engage its mother on its own terms (cries). mother doesn't go for it. kid... INSISTS!!! because totally, if you ignore everything and just repeat your thing... well.. that's happiness innit. [23:51]
* assbot gives voice to undata [23:54]
* undata wonders whether gribble or freenode itself is lagging today [23:55]
* CryptOprah_ is now known as CryptOprah [23:55]
mircea_popescu freenode's been having some issues. [23:55]
undata ah [23:56]
Anduck hopefully people here think clearly :) [23:57]
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mircea_popescu !up sdffsd [23:59]
-assbot- You voiced sdffsd for 30 minutes. [23:59]
* assbot gives voice to sdffsd [23:59]
Category: Logs
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