Forum logs for 15 Dec 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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-assbot- You voiced bgupta for 30 minutes. [00:05]
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BingoBoingo Hello starsoccer [00:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13000 @ 0.00058382 = 7.5897 BTC [-] [00:10]
BingoBoingo scoopbot -fetch [00:14]
scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/12/the-antidote-to-ransomware-prevention/ [00:14]
BingoBoingo scoopbot: Good boy! [00:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18050 @ 0.00059966 = 10.8239 BTC [+] [00:15]
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-assbot- You voiced zebedee for 30 minutes. [00:27]
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decimation it'll be interesting to see if the us stock market blows its top this week [00:52]
decimation should be bullish for bitcoin in fiat [00:52]
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decimation re: "there's no inflation" << if you look at assets that are close to the bezzle this is obviously false http://cdn2.blog-media.zillowstatic.com/1/SECMI-Infographic-01-9e5cc6.png << manhattan real estate for instance [00:55]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IRrLBg ) [00:55]
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decimation http://www.zillow.com/east-hampton-ny/home-values/ << hamptons are about 2x since 2005 [00:56]
assbot East Hampton Home Prices and Home Values - Zillow ... ( http://bit.ly/1IRrYEE ) [00:56]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1169 @ 0.0012 = 1.4028 BTC [01:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.0006051 = 5.6879 BTC [+] [01:11]
mircea_popescu decimation course. [01:13]
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mircea_popescu the inflation is immense. back in the 80s, a 2k monthy salary made one comfortable [01:14]
mircea_popescu today it's what, 10k. [01:14]
decimation heh it depends where one is living, but yeah [01:14]
mircea_popescu not really that much. [01:14]
mircea_popescu anyway, that's 8.5% a year for two decades [01:15]
decimation I think part of that is explained by the fact that most us couples now both work [01:15]
mircea_popescu two decades during which NOTHING paid anywhere remotely like 8%. not bonds, not stocks. [01:15]
mircea_popescu then people wonder why everyone, from china to russia, thumbs their noses at the us poverty. [01:15]
decimation it is interesting how quickly "women should be able to do anything men can do!!" fliipped into "women must work so that they can afford good schools, low crime neighborhoods, etc" [01:17]
decimation the other thing that I found amusing is the completely simultaneous moves in the stock market over the past few years [01:18]
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decimation what does it mean when the price of every asset in a marketplace changes simultaneously in the same direction? http://finviz.com/map.ashx [01:19]
assbot S&P 500 Map Heatmap ... ( http://bit.ly/1zmM7gj ) [01:19]
decimation currency manipulation pops to mind... [01:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00060651 = 15.0718 BTC [+] [01:20]
mircea_popescu it strictly means price fixing / fraud [01:21]
mircea_popescu yup. [01:21]
BingoBoingo I dunno, here house prices roughly halved [01:22]
decimation ;;ticker [01:22]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 352.51, Best ask: 353.15, Bid-ask spread: 0.64000, Last trade: 353.17, 24 hour volume: 6030.40300770, 24 hour low: 348.22, 24 hour high: 359.3, 24 hour vwap: 354.691207048 [01:22]
BingoBoingo Here the trend seems to have been if the wife is working each can be paid half [01:23]
decimation BingoBoingo: yeah, prices of assets that are outside the bezzle orbit have generally held steady [01:23]
decimation BingoBoingo: yeah, the 'de-professionalizing' of the us 'middle class' is a long-run trend [01:24]
decimation they used to pay derps to sit in an office and move memos from the in-queue to the out-queue [01:24]
decimation they have all been 'laid off' and are now working as shift managers at starbucks or whatever [01:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2136 @ 0.00060651 = 1.2955 BTC [+] [01:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3637 @ 0.0006051 = 2.2007 BTC [-] [01:28]
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thestringpuller decimation: good shift managers are hard to come by. [01:29]
decimation thestringpuller: yeah I might be exaggerating, they might be just plain barristas, or just sitting at home and receiving gov't checks [01:30]
mircea_popescu decimation seems more likely they're on reddit. [01:31]
mircea_popescu cheaper. [01:31]
thestringpuller well, along the lines of "derps managing", usually this results in the franchise being run into the ground [01:31]
thestringpuller even if the franchise is in theory a "gold mine" [01:31]
mircea_popescu no because they're just as good as anyone else! [01:31]
thestringpuller I have a friend who is trying to open a skateboard shop literally 500 feet from the biggest skatepark in the state [01:31]
thestringpuller what does he do? He sells drugs in the woods behind it because he isn't competent enough to hire leadership to get the shop open. [01:32]
decimation I wonder how many 'franchises' actually make money for anyone other than the 'headquarters' [01:32]
thestringpuller instead he says, "You people don't know how this works" in reference to criticism of his poor decision making process. [01:33]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller the thing with what people "Want to" do is that it's generally just a credible excuse [01:33]
mircea_popescu like a linked-in profile. [01:33]
decimation thestringpuller: can't he find someone with some credit to get a bezzle loan? [01:33]
mircea_popescu they don't by and large even remotely consider doing it. but it sounds cool [01:33]
thestringpuller decimation: as mircea_popescu once stated on trilema money is the least of his problems (in fact he is already "bankrolled" from drug dealing). his problem is finding competent people. [01:34]
mircea_popescu decimation re making money, there was this lulzy failure of one of romania's cardboard tycoons. he tried to open a franchised 7/11 thing. [01:34]
thestringpuller This is similar, imo, to the way ASICMINER has been run into the ground. [01:34]
mircea_popescu it crashed and burned so badly o my god. [01:34]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller quite, yes. [01:34]
mircea_popescu irl idiots get forced out of ownership once their company reaches success. in bitcoin, they have to relinquish willingly. [01:35]
mircea_popescu generally, they're too stupid to even realise this is an option [01:35]
BingoBoingo There's good franchises out there, but the secret is the management/owners have to be managed like the customers [01:35]
mircea_popescu let alone that it is their ONLY option. [01:35]
mircea_popescu look at dooglus's mishandling of justdice, no need to go further. [01:35]
BingoBoingo On the otherhand Subway does great business recruiting Doctors who want a tax writeoff to finance their new locations [01:36]
mircea_popescu o that's still going ?! [01:36]
mircea_popescu i thought for sure musta been plugged bynow [01:36]
decimation BingoBoingo: is that how that works? I wondered why there were subways every 10 feet in the us [01:36]
BingoBoingo Yeah, and like every other franchise like that profitable locations are retained as "corporate stores" [01:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42550 @ 0.00058141 = 24.739 BTC [-] {2} [01:37]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: irl idiots get forced out of ownership once their company reaches success << this is usually the case, but sometimes idiots can be too dumb to realize they need to step aside in meatspace too. [01:37]
BingoBoingo Subway found a demo with money, and... they got shit done. They just had to manage their partners the same way they manage the cattle coming in for the product. [01:38]
thestringpuller I suppose in meatspace VC's can forcefully remove the leadership of a company in exchange for more money. [01:39]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: Not VC's, C's [01:39]
thestringpuller Like Yishan Wong's "resignation". [01:40]
decimation yeah actually the vc/founder relationship is probably alot like subway/franchise 'owner' [01:40]
decimation except no one eats [01:40]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller not at all. look at greenspun'ssad story with arsdigita [01:41]
mircea_popescu they just kick the founder out, generally. [01:41]
BingoBoingo I thought google had a cafeteria [01:41]
mircea_popescu for that matter, look at jobs' midlife crisis. [01:41]
decimation I've heard the google benefits are going downhill [01:41]
mircea_popescu decimation once i saw those "prosecutions" re wage fixing [01:41]
mircea_popescu i figured, "hey, whoever was competing in that market won meanwhile ; doing away with the entire thing" [01:42]
decimation yeah that's been quiet for awhile, I think they were going to 'settle' for $2k per person [01:42]
mircea_popescu basically, california is dead for tech wage earners coming decade. [01:42]
mircea_popescu dumbestthing a kid with college debt could possibly do today is put a downpayment on anything based on his salary / some loan. [01:42]
BingoBoingo Yeah [01:43]
thestringpuller hah, yet kids are closing on houses. [01:43]
thestringpuller Right out of college. [01:43]
BingoBoingo The "tech set" needs to rent, cut expenses, and get ready to go to cheaper country [01:44]
thestringpuller I had a coworker who bought a car, and is still underwater on the loan. It's like "really"? [01:44]
mircea_popescu exactly the things they ridiculously do not wish to do. [01:44]
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decimation I wonder how many under-35s in the us actually have a positive net worth? [01:45]
thestringpuller !up badon [01:45]
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mircea_popescu decimation market value ? or "pretend value" ? [01:45]
BingoBoingo It's like how kakobrekla responsibly got a car while goat got an infinite money sink [01:45]
decimation heh well I guess market value [01:45]
mircea_popescu i doubt anyone whosoever has positive net worth in the us if the stock market goes to its natural level and the bonds turn to the dust they are. [01:45]
mircea_popescu maybe some rural guys in west texas etc. [01:46]
thestringpuller that is if your wealth is "invested" in the stockmarket [01:46]
decimation http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/09/04/it-only-takes-10400-to-be-richer-than-most-millennials/ << "It only takes $10,400 to be wealthier than half of millennials (the median) but it takes $75,500 to be richer than millennials on average." lol [01:46]
assbot It Only Takes $10,400 to be Richer Than Most Millennials - Real Time Economics - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1qPOfN9 ) [01:46]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller it can't really not be. [01:46]
mircea_popescu if it's invested in... i dunno, nubile 19 yo slavegirls which you sell for meat [01:46]
mircea_popescu the people buying them still are invested in the stock market. [01:46]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu why not buy land and put it to use? [01:46]
mircea_popescu because land use is hard. [01:46]
mircea_popescu not to mention patriarchical and chauvinist. [01:47]
decimation yeah, try buying some land and using it for something [01:47]
BingoBoingo Probably more people working fast food with positive net worths than in Silicon Valley [01:47]
mircea_popescu "if you bought this plot of land you didn't buy this plot of land" [01:47]
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mircea_popescu "it belongs to teh people" [01:47]
decimation you will find generally at least 3 layers of usg will tell you what you can do on 'your' land [01:47]
mircea_popescu "so why did i pay money then ?!" [01:47]
mircea_popescu "because you had it" [01:47]
mircea_popescu fatlogic, can't be beat. [01:47]
BingoBoingo If only because they can't borrow atm [01:48]
thestringpuller As yes, I suppose the USG is pretty much the mafia. [01:48]
thestringpuller Paying "protection" money. [01:48]
thestringpuller not as organized tho. [01:48]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: They are the mafia if Fredo was given reigns over the family [01:48]
mircea_popescu lol that [01:48]
decimation it's pretty common in most lefty urban areas of the us to pay >2% per year in 'property tax' [01:49]
decimation at least in london you can 'lease' an estate from the crown for 1000 years, not 50 [01:50]
thestringpuller lefty urban areas == hipsterland [01:51]
badon hi thestringpuller [01:51]
BingoBoingo Farmland in the US is less bullshit for owners since they usually lease it. [01:53]
BingoBoingo To the people who farm on it. [01:54]
decimation BingoBoingo: and of course the farmers are paid by usg to farm or not [01:54]
BingoBoingo decimation: Right. [01:54]
BingoBoingo It's a tower of rentseeking [01:55]
badon "bought the farm" is an idiom for death in the USA. [01:56]
badon There is no such thing as private land ownership in jurisdictions that tax ownership of land. [01:56]
badon tax = rent [01:56]
BingoBoingo I haven't heard it and I'm in the US surrounded by farms [01:56]
badon BingoBoingo: Haven't heard of what? [01:57]
BingoBoingo "bought the farm" I mean maybe I've heard it, but it isn't too common [01:57]
decimation yeah "bought the farm" is generally an aviation expression [01:57]
badon https://www.google.com/search?q=%22bought+the+farm%22+death [01:57]
assbot "bought the farm" death - Google Search ... ( http://bit.ly/1qPPYlz ) [01:57]
decimation my understanding is that the price of agricultural land has been rising due to the influx of wall st. money [01:59]
badon "bought the farm" became a euphemism for death after farmland seizures by the government and banks during the USA's Great Depression. The seizures led to food price increases and starvation. When the government tried to undo the damage they caused by reselling the farms, no one wanted to buy them. [02:01]
badon So, the government started doing other things to encourage farmers to farm without making them fear losing their livelihood if they have a bad crop or experience a depression. [02:02]
badon That's important USA history that is not in USA history books. [02:03]
badon bbl [02:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.00057296 = 9.5684 BTC [-] {2} [02:08]
* asciilifeform random derps on the tumblrs << misread as 'on the tumbrils' [02:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.12786714 = 3.836 BTC [+] {3} [02:12]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 3170 @ 0.0012 = 3.804 BTC [02:18]
asciilifeform http://americandigest.org/aaa1079cklarge-drone-assassina.jpg [02:26]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/135i8xM ) [02:26]
asciilifeform (from a larger loltron, http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/2013_02.php ) [02:26]
assbot AMERICAN DIGEST: February 2013 Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/135ibJK ) [02:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5361 @ 0.00058931 = 3.1593 BTC [+] [02:29]
mircea_popescu soo... argentines are about to set fire to the town AGAIN [02:29]
mircea_popescu 2nd time this week. [02:29]
mircea_popescu there's like... people on top of people on top of buses. [02:29]
mircea_popescu i have nfi what they're so excited about, at 3am [02:29]
BingoBoingo Probably a local club won a game again. [02:31]
BingoBoingo Losing fans generally lack the energy to burn the world [02:31]
mircea_popescu i guess it must have. [02:32]
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BingoBoingo !up huseby [02:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.0006126 = 19.3582 BTC [+] {4} [02:42]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ransomware article << funny thing, i have plenty of windows boxen, emulators, vm, etc. they are used for the purpose for which they work best: running crapware. [02:42]
ben_vulpes It would be interesting if a large portion of humanity couldn't make it to the year 300 because even the corn became diabetic. << counting from what now? [02:42]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: A.S. 300 Anno Satoshi [02:43]
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ben_vulpes :D [02:43]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I don't really know many people who don't [02:43]
asciilifeform who don't what ? [02:44]
asciilifeform i had none at all before taking up my present line of work. [02:44]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Have some sort of windows install for crapware. Maybe not for archeological purposes, but everyone with a Windows box seems to use it for the purpose of running crapware. They just aren't usually aware of it. [02:45]
asciilifeform 'you may not take an interest in war but war is certainly interested in you' [02:45]
ben_vulpes instead he says, "You people don't know how this works" in reference to criticism of his poor decision making process. << thestringpuller clearly doesn't understand how the world works [02:46]
ben_vulpes also, one does not *hire* leadership. [02:46]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: A.S. 300 Anno Satoshi << can it be 300 ass ? [02:47]
mircea_popescu as opposed to as ? [02:47]
mircea_popescu brilliant idea otherwise. [02:47]
BingoBoingo A.SS it is [02:47]
ben_vulpes leastaways i've yet to see that work out for anyone. more often than not hiring leadership is a cover for the sharks to move in and kick founding teams out. [02:47]
asciilifeform piss-poor year zero. [02:47]
ben_vulpes frequently deservedly, but nevertheless. [02:47]
asciilifeform i'll wait for usg nuremberg. [02:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know ad is from the birth of christ [02:48]
asciilifeform ad yes [02:48]
mircea_popescu not from rebirth. [02:48]
asciilifeform as [02:48]
asciilifeform eh. [02:48]
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ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-10-2014#886771 << re: ass [02:50]
assbot Logged on 22-10-2014 00:43:32; ben_vulpes: can we start counting in years since the first coinbase yet? [02:50]
mircea_popescu aha [02:51]
ben_vulpes handy, this public record. [02:51]
mircea_popescu mhm [02:52]
fluffypony almost like a "log" of sorts [02:52]
fluffypony where you can go back and check on things [02:52]
fluffypony whatever will they think of next [02:53]
mircea_popescu it totally keeps track of discussions and ideas and everything [02:53]
ben_vulpes o wow one can do all that too? [02:53]
fluffypony think of it as stone tablets [02:53]
fluffypony but someone is chiseling every conversation we have here [02:54]
fluffypony and there's another guy who will go retrieve older stone tablets on your request [02:54]
ben_vulpes I had a coworker who bought a car, and is still underwater on the loan. It's like "really"? << when are car loans not ever underwater? [02:54]
asciilifeform ^ [02:54]
mircea_popescu right. consumer credit works on that principle. [02:55]
asciilifeform think car loan is a scam? try food loan. [02:55]
asciilifeform product turns to shit every time! [02:55]
asciilifeform sc4mz0rz. [02:55]
fluffypony lol [02:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19089 @ 0.00061722 = 11.7821 BTC [+] {2} [02:55]
mircea_popescu wait wut [02:55]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes was speaking of the well-known fact that a new car in usa loses around a fifth of its market value when driven off the merchant lot [02:56]
asciilifeform this is a tell-tale bezzle bell [02:56]
asciilifeform for certain especially perverse goods (e.g. diamond rings) it's ~90% iirc [02:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00062388 = 6.0204 BTC [+] [02:57]
ben_vulpes hah well [02:57]
ben_vulpes first one'd have to pay more than the gold is worth [02:57]
asciilifeform to 'devil's advocate' - driving the car off the lot turns it into another class of machine entirely. [02:58]
asciilifeform see the 'provenance' discussion. [02:59]
asciilifeform (re: eotvos experiment) [02:59]
ben_vulpes i got away with a "filigree" piece - 90% air anyways [02:59]
asciilifeform wai wat [02:59]
asciilifeform in your car? [02:59]
ben_vulpes no on lady v's finger [02:59]
asciilifeform l0l [02:59]
* asciilifeform has not, does not, will not - own rings [02:59]
asciilifeform woman - also [02:59]
asciilifeform rings bring mutilation and death to the chemical, electrical, mechanical experimenter. [03:00]
ben_vulpes i like to piss on my bushes [03:00]
ben_vulpes different strokes [03:00]
asciilifeform piss on my bushes << electric fence in bushes ? [03:01]
* asciilifeform unfamiliar with expression [03:01]
ben_vulpes a reference to territory marking. [03:02]
asciilifeform lol, ring has your coat of arms on it? [03:02]
ben_vulpes "a collar by any other name..." [03:02]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: this is really such a mystery to you? [03:03]
* asciilifeform recalls one of the folks at mircea_popescu's party having collar [03:03]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: not so much the custom of rings being a mystery, but how it marks the territory as being yours in particular, to the naked eye [03:03]
ben_vulpes how does a fence mark the land as belonging to any particular man? [03:04]
asciilifeform it doesn't [03:04]
ben_vulpes and the message it sends? [03:04]
BingoBoingo What voltage does the fence have? [03:04]
ben_vulpes at least in these parts "cross me and get shot". [03:04]
asciilifeform 'survivors will be shot again!' [03:05]
ben_vulpes i don't leave survivors. [03:05]
ben_vulpes more accurately, the roboturrets don't miss. [03:07]
BingoBoingo Any updates from down under on their brush with IStralia? [03:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52923 @ 0.00060115 = 31.8147 BTC [-] {3} [03:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00059376 = 3.2063 BTC [-] [03:32]
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mircea_popescu woman - also << nose rings can be useful :D [03:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20616 @ 0.00059376 = 12.241 BTC [-] [03:34]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [09:23]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [09:23]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [09:23]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [09:24]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [09:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00057886 = 19.276 BTC [-] {3} [09:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44094 @ 0.00056586 = 24.951 BTC [-] {3} [09:51]
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mircea_popescu !up Rory_ [09:58]
-assbot- You voiced Rory_ for 30 minutes. [09:58]
* assbot gives voice to Rory_ [09:58]
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davout mircea_popescu: seems like the welcome-ddos is another barrier to entry [10:13]
mircea_popescu hehe. [10:13]
mircea_popescu pretty cool huh. [10:13]
davout also you can't avoid it from webchat [10:14]
davout since the cloaking doesn't work [10:14]
mircea_popescu it does ? [10:15]
davout try to get cloaked from webchat, at first it works, but then some freenode bot instantly removes it [10:16]
mircea_popescu o.O [10:16]
mircea_popescu that's pretty stupid. [10:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00056436 = 16.6486 BTC [-] [10:16]
cazalla shit is heating up here, media won't show the videos from IS [10:24]
cazalla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AxN0Yvt_yE for example [10:24]
mircea_popescu lol put it up. [10:24]
assbot ISIS demands in sydney through hostage - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1yTO5Ha ) [10:24]
mircea_popescu ah it's on youtube nm [10:24]
cazalla yeah it's everywhere except TV, so it's nowhere according to TV lol [10:25]
mircea_popescu yeah, because tv really matters o.O [10:25]
mircea_popescu so is the statal bureaucrat going to break down and actually *GASP* talk to someone outside of the venues the state controls ? [10:26]
mircea_popescu or is he going to *pretend* like he gives a shit about anything but his fantasy ? [10:26]
mircea_popescu pretty big deal this, imo. [10:26]
mircea_popescu australian prime minister basically is admitting de facto that a) he stands for a lie and b) he's too stupid to be able to argue for it persuasively. [10:27]
mircea_popescu his case is unexceptional. obama couldn't argue why the usg should even exist either. [10:27]
cazalla he won't talk to em, not a chance, heads are gonna roll either way by looks of it [10:27]
mircea_popescu pretty cool imo. [10:28]
mircea_popescu this point needs to be made, and made often and made well. [10:28]
mircea_popescu "democratically elected representatives" are not only dumb as rocks, but fundamentally unrepresentative. [10:28]
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cazalla well, you were right about the landwhales lol http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=32f_1418647768 [10:40]
assbot LiveLeak.com - Sydney Siege Hostage Demands (Video 4) ... ( http://bit.ly/1yTR2aS ) [10:40]
cazalla srs though, can't be that dedicated to the cause if he didn't even have his own flag [10:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31600 @ 0.00060235 = 19.0343 BTC [+] {2} [10:48]
cazalla apparently this is the dude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheikh_Haron [10:52]
assbot Sheikh Haron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1yTT8aH ) [10:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57311 @ 0.00058158 = 33.3309 BTC [-] [10:56]
mircea_popescu halfassed terrorist holds a bunch of fatasses hostage ? [11:00]
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cazalla looks somewhat halfassed, arrested for sending angry letters previously, guess that is to far a jump to heads on pikes [11:05]
mircea_popescu "and was later verified by media (with permission from the authorities)" [11:05]
mircea_popescu dude srsly ? [11:05]
cazalla yeah, sad eh [11:05]
mircea_popescu myeah. [11:05]
cazalla if this guy gets out of it alive, he has a future in viral marketing on social media [11:05]
mircea_popescu why would i want to read a "press" that publishes by permission ? [11:05]
mircea_popescu lol [11:05]
mircea_popescu every social reject from every mechanism and circumstance has the same future in viral marketing. [11:05]
mircea_popescu meanwhile on the other side of internet lol, http://pastebin.com/rHSu3iPi [11:07]
assbot I'm homeless indian junkie. I'm accepting Bitcoin donations to buy crack for me - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1yTVYwv ) [11:07]
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cazalla "Sent from my iPhone" [11:13]
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mircea_popescu that a good thing ? [11:14]
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thestringpuller dunno why a homeless person addicted to crack would have an iPhone... [11:16]
thestringpuller or how for that matter [11:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1948 @ 0.00060124 = 1.1712 BTC [+] [11:16]
cazalla looks like that was used for Preet Bharara [11:17]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller internet derp being what he imagines is sarcastic. [11:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00060687 = 13.5939 BTC [+] {2} [11:18]
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mircea_popescu get a cloak Rory_ [11:21]
cazalla i wonder if it's a psychological tactic to release his name at this time, maybe he feels media gives him recognition and being tired, is content with that and gives up [11:22]
mircea_popescu the way this guy cuts down on all the dumb idlers that imagine whatever, b-a is just another channel, can autopilot in is so fucking great srlsy. [11:22]
cazalla barely noticed tbh [11:23]
mircea_popescu shit sherlock [11:24]
mircea_popescu https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net [11:24]
assbot Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast [11:24]
cardigm cazalla chiral copumpkin Cory CryptoGoon Crypton CryptOprah [11:24]
cardigm cazalla chiral copumpkin Cory CryptoGoon Crypton CryptOprah [11:24]
mircea_popescu you seen that c? [11:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00060931 = 13.4658 BTC [+] [11:24]
mircea_popescu larger than the previous peak. [11:25]
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cazalla well, that's not bad [11:25]
mircea_popescu by a good 50% [11:25]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: thank reddit [11:25]
mircea_popescu oh ? [11:26]
cazalla yeah, a qntra post was like #4 or something on reddit earlier [11:26]
thestringpuller qntra was on front page of /r/bitcoin [11:26]
cazalla http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2p9ctz/ford_motor_company_bitcoin_a_trend_for_2015/ [11:26]
thestringpuller to quote "I came for the bunny" so you should actually be thanking cazalla 's bunny [11:26]
assbot Ford Motor Company: Bitcoin A Trend For 2015 : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1GHCSsy ) [11:26]
mircea_popescu o ic [11:26]
cazalla not bad considering i was drunk at the time, just ask BingoBoingo [11:27]
mircea_popescu lol [11:27]
mircea_popescu funny enoughy, awstats doesn't see the same sort of jumps [11:27]
mircea_popescu i think part of this might be that most of qntra stable readership are computer savvy folks and so invisible, [11:28]
mircea_popescu but whenever reddit or whoever pours in, there's a huge upsurge in traffic visible for quantcast. [11:28]
cazalla wouldn't it be other way around? savvy reader blocks quantcast code, hit still reg in webserver stats? [11:28]
mircea_popescu exactly. [11:29]
cazalla who are all these asians though [11:29]
mircea_popescu awstats average is like 6-700, yest 1.3k [11:29]
mircea_popescu quantcast is more like 50-200, yest 2.7k [11:29]
mircea_popescu anyways, nice going. it's fun to have the ath yest. [11:30]
cazalla nb considering things have been slow past week, i would expect things to crawl over xmas period too [11:31]
mircea_popescu me too yeah [11:31]
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thestringpuller cazalla: well given BingoBoingo's prevention of shitware piece, maybe more non-time-sensitive pieces? [11:57]
davout !t x.eur [11:58]
assbot You had the last Philistine. This one's mine. [11:58]
cazalla thestringpuller, yeah, those articles are good for the weekend [11:58]
thestringpuller !t m x.eur [11:58]
assbot [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00350937 / 0.00353359 / 0.0035368 (449 shares, 1.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00341302 / 0.00349125 / 0.00355121 (2207 shares, 7.71 BTC), 30D: 0.00321492 / 0.00337825 / 0.00355121 (6434 shares, 21.74 BTC) [11:58]
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cazalla i'm off anyway, zzz [11:58]
thestringpuller night mang [11:58]
davout thestringpuller: ah thx [11:58]
mircea_popescu !up ug_ [11:58]
thestringpuller see you in a few hours [11:58]
-assbot- You voiced ug_ for 30 minutes. [11:58]
* assbot gives voice to ug_ [11:58]
mircea_popescu he doesn't really sleep much does he. [11:58]
davout mircea_popescu: x.eur plox [11:58]
thestringpuller does anyone sleep that much in this channel? [11:59]
mircea_popescu i guess not o.O [11:59]
mircea_popescu davout will happen today :) [11:59]
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davout mircea_popescu: so, why does it not make sense according to you that x.eur could trade continuously? [12:00]
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mircea_popescu because old and new contracts hafta be distinguished. [12:00]
mircea_popescu and because downstream providers & brokers need a settlement spot [12:00]
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davout mircea_popescu: old and new can be distinguished by the current timestamp, after cutoff all "old" contracts turn into "new" [12:03]
davout could you elaborate on the settlement spot ? [12:04]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: is this why there were options appended with T and N [12:04]
mircea_popescu basically, we're cheating by using a singlke name for different instruments. [12:04]
thestringpuller N's would eventually turn into T's [12:04]
mircea_popescu this works ok if therer's some time separation. [12:04]
davout because the way i see it, it could perfectly make sense to say "if you want delivery, email me before cutoff minus 24h, push the asset, email receipt, and you get delivered on the settlement date" [12:05]
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mircea_popescu anyway, you'll get the new set later today, nottin' to get too excited about. [12:05]
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davout i could understand the "it's actually two different assets" point if at some point you had to sell the old one and buy the new one [12:06]
mircea_popescu i can see people doing that. [12:07]
davout if one automatically turns into the other one at some point they sure look like the same to me [12:07]
* mircea_popescu shrugs [12:08]
mircea_popescu this arguing by simple restatement of one's position is uninteresting. [12:09]
davout i guess that what i'm trying to clear up is the question: "why do you want to distinguish them?" [12:10]
mircea_popescu because they are actually different things. [12:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00061138 = 8.4065 BTC [+] {2} [12:13]
davout well, just because two dollar bills have a different serial number doesn't make it very useful to distinguish them, likewise it does not seem very useful to me to want to distinguish between these, maybe it's just me but i don't see what problem this solves [12:16]
mircea_popescu but these aren't two dollar bills. one is a dollar bill of your paycheck today. the other is a dollar bill of your paycheck next month. they aren't fungible. [12:17]
davout absolutely, but at any point of time there can't be only a single contract type trading, unlike what i understand from the usual future contracts where at some point both contracts are trading simultaneously [12:18]
mircea_popescu yeah well, the time granularity here is closer to the day than to the second [12:22]
davout from what i understand, it's usually the case that the N and N+1 contracts trade simultaneously during a few days at least [12:23]
mircea_popescu if they're specially denominated, yeah. [12:24]
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TomServo Wow. 1USD = 60.5RUB. [12:46]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4008 @ 0.0012 = 4.8096 BTC [12:53]
mircea_popescu nuts. [12:55]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1000 @ 0.0012 = 1.2 BTC [12:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42200 @ 0.00061248 = 25.8467 BTC [+] {2} [13:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1700 @ 0.0012 = 2.04 BTC [13:12]
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asciilifeform at first it works, but then some freenode bot instantly removes it << wtf is the deal with the 'cloaking' thing anyway. why the idiocy of displaying ip by default ? [13:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works!1111!! [13:25]
mircea_popescu they're just clueless idiots. [13:25]
asciilifeform apparently not [13:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00060931 = 8.3475 BTC [-] [13:25]
* mircea_popescu recalls his last foray into #freenode, where some staf derp explained how he can revert hashes [13:27]
ben_vulpes the way this guy cuts down on all the dumb idlers that imagine whatever, b-a is just another channel, can autopilot in is so fucking great srlsy. << too strong of a noob filter imho. more spport for the casuals! [13:27]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes if they're actively trying to stick, they can triviallydo so. [13:28]
mircea_popescu if they just wantr to idle in 500 "bitcoin related" channels fuck them. [13:28]
thestringpuller go to #freenode "Hey can I have cloak" [13:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37750 @ 0.0006108 = 23.0577 BTC [+] {2} [13:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00060307 = 2.2314 BTC [-] [13:36]
rithm "can i haz cloak" makes it happen faster [13:37]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 2277 @ 0.0012 = 2.7324 BTC [13:51]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4300 @ 0.0012 = 5.16 BTC [13:55]
davout mircea_popescu: mpex seems half-down [13:55]
davout n/a everywhere [13:55]
mircea_popescu workin' on it. [13:56]
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empyex jurov: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91 [14:05]
empyex jurov: MPEx-Status: mpex.bz (5108 milliseconds), mpex.biz (5108 milliseconds), mpex.co (5120 milliseconds), mpex.ws (5230 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (5505 milliseconds) [14:06]
empyex jurov: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √ [14:06]
davout jurov: the patient is dead but the heart monitor self-test reports 100% success phew [14:07]
kakobrekla ah yes, the ping machine! [14:09]
kakobrekla ;;google machine that goes ping [14:09]
gribble Monty Python - Hospital Sketch - YouTube: ; The Meaning of Life (1983) - Quotes - IMDb: ; Monty Python's The Meaning of Life - Wikiquote: [14:09]
mircea_popescu davout lol well, they have a split issue. the proxies are online, just... no data. [14:13]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 1670 @ 0.0012 = 2.004 BTC [14:28]
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asciilifeform ;;later tell kakobrekla when you measured the 1+gb/sec or whatever of ddos, didja log incoming packets ? [14:40]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:40]
kakobrekla asciilifeform nope. [14:45]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: if you can be bothered, try the experiment again, with tcpdump log. and post or send privately (i only need packet payloads and originator ip) [14:47]
asciilifeform no rush. [14:47]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: example >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/flood.txt.gz [14:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1svN0DW ) [14:48]
asciilifeform https://ssdpscan.shadowserver.org [14:58]
assbot The Shadowserver Foundation: Simple Service Discovery Protocol (SSDP) Scanning Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1svOj5H ) [14:58]
asciilifeform interestingly, they do not publish the ips, but did post this graphic: https://ssdpscan.shadowserver.org/all/ssdp_hilbert_4096_current.png << from which you can easily derive them! [14:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1svOluw ) [14:59]
asciilifeform ^ exercise for alert reader [14:59]
asciilifeform http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:JOOtTeT-uH4J:www.hackforums.net/showthread.php%3Ftid%3D4502619+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us [15:02]
assbot Free C SSDP attack script + scanner, don't get scammed! - Page 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1svP3Yx ) [15:02]
asciilifeform ^ mega-lol re: idiots [15:03]
davout mircea_popescu: so you're using mysqlol on the proxies [15:06]
asciilifeform http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L1ay4bsEJyIJ:www.hackforums.net/showthread.php%3Ftid%3D4427786+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us << from same snakepit, explanation for the thickest [15:06]
assbot SSDP Amplification Vector Explain [Attack Script & Scanner included] + a GIFT - Page 1 ... ( http://bit.ly/1svQ6YH ) [15:06]
davout X.EUR December statement : http://fr.anco.is/2014/12/15/x-eur-december-15th-2014-statement/ [15:09]
assbot X.EUR December 15th 2014 statement | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1svQXbQ ) [15:09]
davout asset transfers will happen when MPEx gets back [15:09]
davout which is apparently now [15:11]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/teenage-boys-the-premier-source-of-comedy-gold/ [15:12]
kakobrekla asciilifeform port 80 only? [15:13]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: nah, originating from 1900 [15:13]
asciilifeform destination may vary. [15:13]
asciilifeform for the impatient: the way this particular type of ddos works is called 'amplification.' certain kinds of misconfigured consumer routers will send several packets to victim ip for every packet received from the diddler's. hence amp. [15:15]
asciilifeform ddos aficionados scan the net for these boxes, and then sell (or sometimes simply post) the resulting chump list [15:16]
asciilifeform once posted in the open, the chumps begin to get 'overgrazed' [15:16]
asciilifeform and new ones are required. [15:16]
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kakobrekla yes but incoming is 80 [15:28]
kakobrekla recording now, unable to access the box for the while [15:28]
kakobrekla (this is hitting 4 poor arm cores) [15:29]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: grab as many as you can. no hurry. [15:31]
kakobrekla 250mb log atm [15:42]
kakobrekla seems to be dying off [15:43]
Anduck .deeds [15:48]
Anduck where's deeds? [15:48]
ben_vulpes ask punkman. nominally some progress was to be made this weekend. [15:53]
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kakobrekla asciilifeform see link in pm. [16:21]
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BingoBoingo http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06583.html [16:34]
assbot [Bitcoin-development] Recent EvalScript() changes mean CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can't be merged ... ( http://bit.ly/12X0IU5 ) [16:34]
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ben_vulpes lordy [16:47]
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BingoBoingo !up t4nk [17:21]
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kakobrekla lol [17:34]
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BingoBoingo https://images.encyclopediadramatica.se/7/7c/Breedism.jpg [17:49]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1qT1ahc ) [17:49]
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jurov http://www.boredpanda.com/1000-colours-color-jigsaw-puzzle-clemens-habicht/ my ass [17:53]
assbot 1000-Piece CMYK Color Gamut Jigsaw Puzzle By Designer Clemens Habicht | Bored Panda ... ( http://bit.ly/1qT27pS ) [17:53]
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mats don't worry BingoBoingo, trainers will lower requirements so the chihuahuas can graduate [17:56]
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mats its already been done for chihuahuas going through Airborne and Air Assault school [18:01]
thestringpuller !up BlueMeanie4 [18:01]
mats but, hey, israel allows chihuahuas to serve in their infantry units!!! [18:02]
BingoBoingo lol [18:03]
asciilifeform http://wurmhoudt.blogspot.com/2012/08/anti-tank-dogs.html << chihuahua could work just as well in this job. [18:04]
assbot Mr Boot's Axis Blog: Anti-tank Dogs ... ( http://bit.ly/1qT4by4 ) [18:04]
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BingoBoingo Depends on the size of the payload the tank demands [18:05]
mats heart dun mean shit when you've got to march 20mi in a 30 pound iotv, with a 45 pound pack, and 15 pounds of weapon and magazine [18:05]
cazalla i am happy to report Australia is safe once again, apparently mr i forgot my isis flag guy fell asleep, hostages ran out and woke him, he started blasting and cops 360 no scoped him [18:06]
mats such discipline [18:08]
adlai mother should i trust the government [18:16]
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kakobrekla ok so assbot will now warn you bout ddos only if you have a dot in you host [18:29]
kakobrekla if you get the msg, yer phucked [18:29]
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thestringpuller "We choose to bitcoin company in the bitcoin way" - some derp CEO of some coinderp company. These quotes are getting ridiculous. [18:32]
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kakobrekla lol ok [18:33]
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mats verb everything [18:47]
BingoBoingo I liked assbot PM though. Made it easy to say !up while typing less [18:50]
kakobrekla :( [18:51]
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BingoBoingo Well, maybe if host doesn't have a dot assbot can greet people with joke? [18:53]
jborkl heh, yeah [18:53]
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kakobrekla i installed a personalized msg for bb. [18:55]
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BingoBoingo Cool [19:00]
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BingoBoingo Thank you kakobrekla http://cdn3.volusion.com/74gtv.tjme9/v/vspfiles/photos/Delicious%20Dozen-1.jpg [19:02]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AA42PX ) [19:02]
kakobrekla lol [19:03]
kakobrekla yw ! [19:03]
mats would you make it three dots? [19:03]
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kakobrekla cant you put cloak on top of that? [19:05]
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jurov argh, every github hipster now wires travis ci to their project [19:13]
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jurov btw, i was invited to coinmate.io [19:15]
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jurov later read it as co.inmate, had double take [19:15]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 8000 @ 0.0012 = 9.6 BTC [19:15]
kakobrekla >Dear clients, [19:16]
kakobrekla we sincerely apologize but our site was under a massive Distributed Denial of Service attack. We have reconfigured our servers for full protection by one of the world's best DDOS protection providers, so there will not be any downtime in the future. Our service has now world-class security. [19:16]
kakobrekla lolok [19:16]
BingoBoingo Is .inmate a tld yet? [19:19]
jurov i'd prefer .зэк [19:21]
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jurov already i got into argument with these coinmates.. since their czech ass is close to eurozone and they offer sepa/czk [19:23]
jurov so i asked them about the calculator instead of just saying go to xe.com [19:24]
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jurov "nooo that would be difficult" [19:24]
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jurov and "but most of our customers are muricans" [19:26]
jurov i was like wtf how they imagine offering usd coupon codes to muricans when everyone else was forced to stop doing it [19:27]
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jurov co.inmates, indeed [19:27]
BingoBoingo What the fuck. "I am near you would like to be customer" "Fuck you, our customers are Americans so we can scam them with impunity" [19:27]
jborkl heh, too hard to scrape exchange rate and divide by BTC [19:28]
jurov slight correction: they don't open accounts for USians they only said to me "our customers use usd" .. i just misextrapolated [19:34]
BingoBoingo Ah [19:34]
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mats nah a cloak won't take precedence over the irccloud one [19:41]
kakobrekla sure it will [19:42]
mats freenode staff disagrees [19:42]
kakobrekla freenode staff can also dehash hashes [19:43]
mats i almost started a fire just now bc some extension cable started melting when i hooked up a space heater [19:44]
mats wouldn't have noticed if i hadn't went to poop [19:44]
kakobrekla your ass saved your ass [19:45]
BingoBoingo mats: You are now qualified to operate BTC mine [19:45]
BingoBoingo By virtue of Ass luck [19:45]
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scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/ophionlocker-latest-ransomware-which-is-spread-via-ad-networks/ [19:48]
mats im getting high on plastic fumes [19:48]
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jurov http://www.zelpage.cz/news_n/zssk_aeer_nove_wc.jpg someone who projected this toilet prolly got some fumes, too [19:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1yVHBHZ ) [19:53]
jurov (it's our incumbent railways reaction to competition) [19:53]
adlai mpex web-side totally fucked eh [19:56]
jurov i remember we talked with mircea about more direct access, he was like "nah, not needed anymore, we have it covered" [19:57]
kakobrekla !s s.nsa november [19:58]
assbot 3 results for 's.nsa november' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=s.nsa+november [19:58]
jurov remember,remember [19:59]
kakobrekla mats it seem they are right this time. dik, get a real client or smth. [20:00]
adlai good thing the chart scraper was turned off, it would've captured a cartload of horseshit [20:05]
kakobrekla you horse shit can be turned into btc [20:07]
kakobrekla your [20:07]
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thestringpuller asciilifeform: http://i.imgur.com/5koAv3H.jpg [20:09]
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mircea_popescu omg all teh hate. [20:14]
mircea_popescu anyway, dumbass proxies desynced and started running around topless in the dc. [20:14]
jurov https://i.imgur.com/k3odZjv.jpg also [20:14]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1wBY94k ) [20:14]
jurov mircea_popescu: photos or gtfo [20:15]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: famous [20:15]
adlai to celebrate mpoe coming back up: https://vid.me/pYV4 [20:17]
assbot The MPEx Shuffle - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1wBYQL8 ) [20:17]
mircea_popescu "The #4890 pull-req in question had no ACKs at all, and only two untested utACKS, which I find worrying for something that made significant consensus critical code changes." via BingoBoingo [20:17]
mircea_popescu basically, shit only goes one way. [20:17]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Courtesy of Peter Todd [20:18]
jurov yup for mpex [20:18]
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mircea_popescu adlai aww i cxan not see it [20:19]
mircea_popescu whai can it not be a gif [20:19]
adlai can this ffmpex thing make gifs [20:20]
mircea_popescu ffmpeg ? yes. [20:20]
mircea_popescu "apparently mr i forgot my isis flag guy fell asleep" << ahahaha epic [20:20]
mircea_popescu "i was gonna do thinks with my gun... but then i got tired... then i got tired... and fell asleep" [20:21]
mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw << my humble proposal for a isis.oz anthem [20:21]
assbot Afroman - Because I Got High - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC03lx ) [20:21]
BingoBoingo I really think it is irresponsible the dude didn't bring some serious stimulants with him. I mean the police get to have shift changes. [20:22]
* adlai tries with convert, let's see how bad the RAMrape gets [20:22]
mircea_popescu you just do ffmpeg -o fuck.gif or some shit [20:23]
mircea_popescu im bashing the kako ass ass comment. [20:26]
adlai fuck, gif is 3mb and counting [20:33]
adlai why does convert need 5G ram to build a 4M file. somebody didn't read knuth? [20:34]
mircea_popescu sounds like http://trilema.com/2014/ubuntu-is-a-worse-piece-of-shit-than-ms-dos-ever-was/ [20:37]
assbot Ubuntu is a worse piece of shit than MS-DOS ever was. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1wbmC1Q ) [20:37]
BingoBoingo adlai: Everyone talks about Knuth, but no one reads Knuth. [20:37]
asciilifeform 'no one' lol. [20:39]
undata mircea_popescu: there's "ionice" which might help those cases [20:44]
undata not that I dispute ubuntu being a steaming pile [20:45]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 4210 @ 0.0012 = 5.052 BTC [20:50]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: noone for values such that of people who claim to have, finding actual readers is still a hard problem. Not an actual 0. [21:13]
decimation asciilifeform: that internet-wide scanner is neat [21:28]
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decimation .зэк would be a great tld [21:32]
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mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMRjnM6j6w [21:33]
assbot Monty Python's - Johann Gambolputty - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/16oUaQg ) [21:33]
mircea_popescu THAT shouldbe a tld. [21:33]
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decimation so I guess the democratic police in sydney nearly succeeded in saving all the hostages [21:40]
mircea_popescu lol [21:51]
cazalla decimation, they saved themselves, nearly all escaped before the cops even went in [22:01]
cazalla if the law permitted us to carry weapons, would've ended much sooner as well [22:02]
[]bot Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Billion dollar bet?" http://bitbet.us/bet/1047/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.21715114 BTC. Current weight: 46,538. [22:03]
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asciilifeform what threadbare log. [22:06]
asciilifeform from the department of nyooz yoo can yooze - kakobrekla provided data from which we learn that ddos man has switched from ssdp to ntp 'amplification' attack (see literature.) [22:07]
cazalla and it's that bullshit law which enables mohammed to hold down a chocolate shop for almost 24 hours.. the gov actually enabled him to do better than he could if the playing field was level [22:07]
asciilifeform same principles apply to ntp flooding as earlier ssdp - anyone who wishes can 'walk away with' the 'bots'. [22:08]
asciilifeform the machines in question are not 'pwned' in the conventional, permanent sense [22:08]
asciilifeform they answer to any fool who can send some spoofed packets. [22:08]
mircea_popescu no, just ntp is a braindamaged protocol [22:08]
mircea_popescu the world would be so much better if all the gmaxwells of this world were never taught to read. [22:09]
asciilifeform all of the 'amplification' tricks rely on the ability to send (and see them routed) packets with spoofed origin ip. [22:09]
asciilifeform this in turn is fundamental braindamage baked into a good chunk of the net. [22:09]
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asciilifeform great many places have no 'ingress filtering' [22:11]
mircea_popescu there's nothing wrong with declaring your ip [22:11]
asciilifeform this is something else [22:11]
mircea_popescu there IS something wrong to treating packets like fucking popcorn. [22:11]
asciilifeform packets claiming to be from inside your net should not be able to enter it from outside. [22:11]
mircea_popescu sure. [22:12]
asciilifeform http://www.bcp38.info/index.php/Main_Page << summary [22:12]
mircea_popescu not trivial to know where a packet enters tho. they do have to traverse it anyway [22:12]
assbot BCP38 ... ( http://bit.ly/1uQo3y9 ) [22:12]
asciilifeform most 'human' networks have a single gateway. [22:12]
mircea_popescu " IP addresses that were not assigned to the device which is sending them." [22:13]
mircea_popescu pshhh. [22:13]
mircea_popescu this is not the solution. [22:13]
mircea_popescu the solution is to not send 500 packets in response to one [22:13]
asciilifeform weirdos like us, who might use gnarly multihomed pipes, not counted [22:13]
mircea_popescu and to not send packets to X that were asked for by Y. [22:13]
asciilifeform that last bit is precisely what i was speaking of. [22:14]
asciilifeform spoofing allows y to impersonate x. [22:14]
asciilifeform hence x gets the reply. [22:14]
asciilifeform this is not high science. ip spoofing and ddos vectors enabled by it are an age-old plague. [22:15]
mircea_popescu meanwhile TO THIS DAY wordpress will go check 1.1.1.1 because 2.2.2.2 said so. [22:16]
mircea_popescu and in connectionless environments such as ntp or dns even, it would cost nothing to require 2 tits for every tat. [22:17]
mircea_popescu you want the time ? ask twice. the server answers each request pair once, in the order of descending delta intervals. [22:17]
asciilifeform there are considerably more misconfigured consumer routers, tv boxes, electrical dildoes, etc. than 'wordpress' installs. [22:17]
asciilifeform (the latter tends to sit on fatter pipe, however. so i've no idea which one wins in practice.) [22:18]
asciilifeform ^ for typical crap artist's collection [22:18]
mircea_popescu im annoyed by the principle of the thing. [22:19]
mircea_popescu mullenweg and the core of imbeciles "working" at wordpress go around claiming they program computers [22:19]
mircea_popescu meanwhile they are too stupid o tie their own shoes. [22:19]
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asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-12-2014#948319 [22:19]
assbot Logged on 08-12-2014 17:09:27; asciilifeform: where every packet knows who paid for it << those who imagine a wot-routing based net as a rent-seekers' paradise are mistaken. it is today's net that is a rent-seeker's paradise, where folks who cannot abide ddos must buy bandwidth in vast excess of their normal needs [22:19]
mircea_popescu "lets make computers fun" ; "you know, for kids" and "anyone can do this". fuck that. [22:19]
asciilifeform rather, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-12-2014#948287 [22:20]
assbot Logged on 08-12-2014 16:32:51; asciilifeform: ddos << there will come the day when folks will remember the 'route to anybody who asks first-come-first-serve' internet - with disgust. [22:20]
ben_vulpes once upon a time, computers were such that children could actually reason about them. [22:20]
mircea_popescu pre apple. [22:20]
asciilifeform pre-i386. [22:21]
mircea_popescu anyway, the entire world made by derps unaware of game theory needs to be redone. [22:21]
mircea_popescu it's like a beautifully drawn mmorpg made by blizzard. you KNOW the economy will be broken to all shit. [22:21]
asciilifeform who? - made what? - while unaware of game theory? [22:21]
mircea_popescu every anything used in an amplification attack meets the criteria. [22:22]
mircea_popescu it was made by idiots who do not understand what trade even is. [22:22]
* asciilifeform distinctly recalls that half the u.s. research establishment at one point furiously masturbated to game theorey [22:22]
asciilifeform *theory [22:22]
mircea_popescu yah well [22:22]
BingoBoingo Plenty of derps masterbate to the idea of tits without experiencing or understanding them [22:23]
asciilifeform the problem with 'amplification attack' isn't that i can send b bytes and get K*b back. failing this - tremendous waste! problem in actuality is spoofed packets getting routed, which at this point is always and without exception the result of idiot network designers and admins [22:23]
mircea_popescu no waste whatsoever. [22:24]
mircea_popescu it's not waste, it's usage. [22:24]
mircea_popescu you always get less than what you put in. this is the chief principle that makes the world endure [22:24]
asciilifeform you're talking about, unless i misunderstand, 'pushing' one bit for each 'pulled' ? [22:24]
mircea_popescu in spite of endless generations of imbeciles running wild all over it. [22:24]
scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/cftc-requests-public-comment-ledgerx/ [22:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform more than one. [22:24]
asciilifeform who wishes to pay for this? mircea_popescu ? [22:24]
mircea_popescu you want n packets, you send at least n+1. you want n bits, you send at least n+1. [22:25]
mircea_popescu it's not a matter of who wishes anything. [22:25]
asciilifeform remember that ddos does not necessarily require 'amplification' [22:25]
mircea_popescu it's how everything must be. [22:25]
asciilifeform perfectly feasible simply using bots [22:25]
asciilifeform sending entirely ordinary packets [22:25]
asciilifeform directly to victim [22:25]
mircea_popescu as long as friction is baked in, the ddos problem fundamentally doesn't exist. [22:25]
mircea_popescu exactly for the reason you mention : who can afford or wants to give anyone free traffic ? [22:26]
asciilifeform ddos still exists if network treats random derp in random place equally with the folks whose traffic one actually wants. [22:26]
mircea_popescu somehow ddos doesn't happen irl. wonder why ? [22:26]
mircea_popescu it's not because of national id cards. [22:26]
asciilifeform because in real life, taking a shit in someone's kitchen requires physically entering. [22:27]
mircea_popescu right, which goes through thermodynamic dissipation aka friction. [22:27]
asciilifeform but suppose you could silently teleport it. [22:27]
mircea_popescu that is what im saying. to get a packet there, you need more than one [22:27]
mircea_popescu no more bs "teleport bits" internet [22:27]
asciilifeform bots still work as before [22:28]
mircea_popescu for as long as your bank accoutn lasts, sure. [22:28]
asciilifeform only the lowliest sp4mz0r actually pays for bots. [22:28]
mircea_popescu now. [22:28]
mircea_popescu because teleport bits exists, putting undue down pressure on all prices. [22:28]
mircea_popescu it's a situation exactly identical to "pay for software" and software market in general. [22:28]
mircea_popescu yes, i'm aware, reddit expects everything for free. [22:29]
mircea_popescu the reason is not economical, nor sensible. [22:29]
mircea_popescu they only get away with it because a flaw in the design. [22:29]
asciilifeform i can think of a few events that would apply the necessary upward pressure on bandwidth cost. [22:29]
mircea_popescu it shouldn't be an event [22:29]
asciilifeform say, cataclysmic war. [22:29]
mircea_popescu that is the definition of design : rules independent of events. [22:29]
mircea_popescu in short, the more i think about it the more im inclined to rather see the telcos win the internet war, adn google lose it [22:30]
asciilifeform let's rephrase a little. the internet as presently exists, is, in practice, mainly a machine for 1) connecting derps to 'reddit' and 'arsebook' 2) routing ddos packets to trilema, qntra... [22:30]
asciilifeform if want some other network - have to produce it. [22:31]
mircea_popescu if cardano wasn't so woefully delayed exploring this in practice'd be almost tempting. [22:31]
mircea_popescu make a whole new web, on a whole new port, based on pgp signs [22:32]
asciilifeform which practice ? [22:32]
mircea_popescu turn off all other traffic, have servers in their own, better world. [22:32]
asciilifeform i may have spoken of this once. i've a very rough draft of precisely this, using an interesting bit of mathematics called 'fountain code' [22:33]
asciilifeform but not ready for battlefield. and no time now. [22:33]
mircea_popescu it'd be a better tor and everything else by default. [22:33]
asciilifeform rather opposite goal to 'tor.' [22:33]
asciilifeform if i understand mircea_popescu correctly [22:33]
mircea_popescu but actually delivering its claimed fruits. [22:33]
mircea_popescu and absolutely NEVER allow any derps on it. stick to the original plan with the original internet, no fucking undergrads. [22:34]
mircea_popescu no fucking aol. [22:34]
asciilifeform whole thing was based (in my head) on a hypothesis that folks misidentify the reason for the glory of old usenet [22:34]
mircea_popescu the glory of the usenet is exactly the glory of b-a. [22:34]
asciilifeform folks typically say 'it was because electric identities were attached to people' [22:34]
mircea_popescu once you get the proper voice model implemented, forgeddaboutit [22:35]
BingoBoingo http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1412060-LI-KFREEBSD879 << Look the Derps still benchmark OS software but have lost the ability to benchmark with... Same hardware! [22:35]
assbot Debian 8.0 Jessie - KFreeBSD Vs. GNU Linux Benchmarks - OpenBenchmarking.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1qTTPy1 ) [22:35]
asciilifeform but really it was because posts were attached to identities (as a matter of convention, rather than 'hard' protocol) [22:35]
asciilifeform i.e. - wot. [22:35]
mircea_popescu quite. [22:35]
mircea_popescu and a shitty version, beyond primitive, yet it still worked. [22:35]
mircea_popescu the extreme power of this idea is evidenced by how effectual it is even when poorly implemented. [22:35]
mircea_popescu exactly like gunpowder is impressive even without a fine 1850 hovitzer [22:36]
asciilifeform aha. [22:36]
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asciilifeform someone probably wonders 'wtf, why fountain code'. answer: getting rid of tcp. [22:36]
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asciilifeform so communication can be maximally stateless [22:36]
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mircea_popescu aside of which, friday some derp was going on about what "his life is dedicated to" and in the crowd hysteria i told em my life is dedicated to excluding people. [22:37]
asciilifeform l0l!! [22:37]
mircea_popescu totally ruined the moment for 'em. idiots. [22:37]
mircea_popescu there is however no higher purpose. [22:37]
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asciilifeform here's a very rough description of above experiment. to start a transmission a --> b, 'a' sends a hello (udp) packet, which consists of an ephemeral rsa key, hash and length of (coming) payload, and all of the preceding signed with his wot key. this fits handily below the traditional 576 byte mtu. [22:41]
mircea_popescu why do you want to preserve the fucking magic numbers [22:42]
asciilifeform what follows is the payload, divided into K gibblets, each below udp mtu in size, each signed with ephemeral key. the gibblets are coded using fountain code (e.g. 'raptor') and you need N of K - in any order - to reassemble. [22:43]
asciilifeform fucking magic numbers << mircea_popescu wants to buy everyone on the planet a new nic and lay own oceanic fibers, launch own satellites, etc. ? sure, why not. [22:43]
* mircea_popescu grumbles. [22:44]
asciilifeform but if working with existing planet, have to swallow some very basic dirt like udp. [22:44]
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mircea_popescu wqasn't the actuyal max 64kb anyway ? [22:45]
asciilifeform max. 576 is max that won't fragment. [22:46]
asciilifeform (consult literature) [22:46]
mircea_popescu o that [22:47]
mircea_popescu all this shit is starting to come back to me [22:47]
* mircea_popescu shudders, thinks of bunnies [22:47]
asciilifeform at any rate, tiny packets plus fountain code plus each one is signed, will work great with transmission media other than internet (say, shortwave) [22:47]
asciilifeform and any other slow, noisy channel. [22:47]
decimation absolutely [22:48]
decimation asciilifeform: did you see that david mackay book I recommended? He has a chapter on fountain codes [22:48]
asciilifeform aha. [22:49]
asciilifeform not a bad intro. [22:49]
BingoBoingo * mircea_popescu shudders, thinks of bunnies << This is how Qntra's taking over reddit. [22:50]
decimation he also wrote a book on renewable resources from Herr McCarthy's point of view [22:50]
decimation "He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense" [22:50]
decimation re: ntp amplification << the thing is, ntp tends to run on actual servers people might care about, so they might respond to notices [22:51]
mircea_popescu decimation still. [22:53]
asciilifeform decimation: nope. iirc, it mostly uses misconfigured tv boxes [22:53]
asciilifeform set to serve up ntp for no particular reason. [22:54]
decimation sigh [22:54]
asciilifeform d3m0cr4cy! [22:54]
asciilifeform all packets were created equal... [22:54]
decimation I've actually spent some time reading the ntp source code [22:54]
decimation it's a mess [22:54]
decimation I managed to get that pci card with the onboard ocxo working with a slightly custom ntp driver [22:55]
asciilifeform to finish the earlier thread: machine on the other end of the link (destination) decides whether to keep packet and attempt payload reassembly based on simple criteria: 1) is it a hello from a wot-blessed (from his pov) key 2) is it signed by an ephemeral key from one such 'hello' received recently. [22:57]
asciilifeform anything else gets insta-dropped. [22:57]
asciilifeform i've deliberately described only a point-to-point link. routing with multiple hops is left as an exercise for the reader! [22:58]
thestringpuller that seems like a huge packet though ~_~ [22:58]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the important part isn't even trhere, the important part is that the machine WONT ROUTE [22:58]
mircea_popescu if it doesn't like the sig [22:58]
asciilifeform nope. every single one below udp mtu. [22:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i did just say this. [22:58]
mircea_popescu right. [22:58]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: how many more bytes would GPG sig add to packet? (i assume binary signatures?) [22:59]
mircea_popescu and i'd kinda like to see this implemented right by sane people this decader [22:59]
mircea_popescu because the telcos WILL do a mickey mouse or should i say microsoft version of it [22:59]
decimation asciilifeform: why bother with the emphemeral key? wouldn't a signed blob (however you do the error coding) be good enough? [23:01]
asciilifeform decimation is a winner [23:01]
asciilifeform the ephemeral key is absolutely necessary. [23:01]
asciilifeform can anyone tell me why? [23:01]
asciilifeform i left it as an exercise. [23:01]
decimation well, I guess if you didn't have it, you would have to store all of the irrelvant derpage until you could check it [23:01]
asciilifeform nope [23:02]
asciilifeform i bet mircea_popescu can tell us why ephemeral key is a must [23:03]
mircea_popescu replay attacks for one thing come to mind [23:03]
asciilifeform nah, that's what the nonce (see, i left out details i consider profanely obvious) is for [23:04]
mircea_popescu isn't fixed sig + nonce equivalent to ephemereal sig ? [23:04]
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asciilifeform rot13: boivbhfyl, bayl rcurzreny xrlf znl fvta cnlybnqf orpnhfr jbg xrl yvirf va ryrpgevpnyyl vfbyngrq qrivpr naq vf abg npprffvoyr gb lbhe pbzchgre jvgubhg znahny gevttre chyy! [23:05]
asciilifeform the riddle is not difficult. [23:06]
mircea_popescu but for that you need the cardano. [23:06]
decimation oh duh [23:07]
asciilifeform right-o. [23:07]
asciilifeform just like to take analysis you gotta pass arithmetic. [23:07]
decimation well, it need not be a per-session ephemeral key in that case [23:07]
asciilifeform ruthlessly cumulative game. [23:07]
asciilifeform decimation: i deliberately oversimplified things here. [23:07]
asciilifeform perhaps will live to regret. [23:07]
asciilifeform wanted to be sure to hammer in the point. [23:07]
asciilifeform a different kind of net is possible. [23:08]
asciilifeform (to pervert the liberast slogan 'a different world is possible') [23:08]
decimation absolutely. mr. yarvin linked to a vint cerf lecture where herr cerf was talking about global persistant namespaces [23:08]
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asciilifeform all thieves. ted nelson wrote about it in no uncertain language, in the late '60s. [23:09]
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decimation interesting [23:09]
decimation bitcoin is a kind of global namespace [23:09]
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mircea_popescu all thieves!~ [23:10]
asciilifeform or, to be more charitable, f-students [23:10]
decimation wasn't kakobrekla explaining about the saturated nature of the torrent 'clouds'? [23:10]
asciilifeform the beauty of a wot-enabled net is that you no longer need to think about perverse edge cases quite so much. [23:11]
asciilifeform because folks who eagerly push the limits of the permissible - will find themselves dealt out of the game. [23:11]
* assbot gives voice to thestringpuller [23:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform just like it works here. [23:12]
asciilifeform aha. [23:12]
asciilifeform who was it who compared wot to semiconductor? mircea_popescu ? [23:13]
decimation actually vint has much to answer for, because of tcp. TCP was a step backwards in networking [23:13]
asciilifeform ordinary net - conductor. wotnet - semiconductor. [23:13]
mircea_popescu if i didn't i'll take it anyway. [23:13]
asciilifeform very closely analogous, actually. [23:14]
decimation most of the modems that are now in use on shortwave are designed to turn the natural broadcast medium into a point-to-point link [23:15]
decimation which is a fantastic waste if you think about it [23:15]
mircea_popescu well... [23:17]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: What was your earlier maybe project that got supplanted, the resistor? [23:18]
mircea_popescu if you think about it sculpture is also fantastic waste of marble [23:18]
mircea_popescu kinda how civilisation works. life too. [23:18]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: ??? [23:18]
asciilifeform resistor? [23:18]
mircea_popescu kyristor ? [23:18]
asciilifeform ^ [23:18]
BingoBoingo tHAT ONE [23:18]
BingoBoingo tHANKS [23:18]
decimation hehe [23:18]
BingoBoingo Cuts ceramic tiles. [23:19]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo is a backwards endian [23:20]
mircea_popescu he remembers the end ofwords [23:20]
BingoBoingo That is very true. [23:20]
BingoBoingo Dat ass [23:20]
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BingoBoingo !up gesella [23:22]
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mircea_popescu !up gernika [23:23]
-assbot- You voiced gernika for 30 minutes. [23:23]
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BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/lowtax/status/544592688582889472 [23:25]
assbot wow, that leaked James Bond script looks terrible http://t.co/OuIZAs25A1 [23:25]
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asciilifeform the important takeaway from the earlier thread is that 'democracy is mistake, hierarchy is useful concept' is a testable hypothesis with immediate engineering applications. [23:28]
asciilifeform mr mold realized this, but for reasons of his own he ended up crapping out a centrally-controlled abortion [23:28]
asciilifeform sorta like what a more clever usg would have offered. [23:29]
mircea_popescu quite, asciilifeform . [23:30]
asciilifeform i've no idea why he did it. for all i know, 'they' threatened to feed his children to shoggoths if he refrained. [23:31]
mircea_popescu equalitarianism is a pipe dream, whether it calls itself democracy, socialism or anything else. hierarchy is both good and indispensable. this is factually correct, which means it's practically falsifiable and scientifically approacheable. [23:31]
asciilifeform point here was that it has immediate engineering applications. like trigonometry. [23:32]
mircea_popescu quite. [23:33]
asciilifeform 16th c. trigonometers did not have to beg folks to agree. they were fought over by the chiefs of their time, because artillery. [23:33]
mircea_popescu quite :) [23:33]
* mircea_popescu asks nubbins to make him a sign [23:33]
BingoBoingo At the time Artillery was cooler than fighter Jets ever were, or John McCain's shit eating grin would be on signs as far south as Rio [23:35]
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BingoBoingo http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/15/social-justice-bandits-vandalize-apartme?n_play=548f6eb2e4b0697d47400883 [23:40]
assbot Vandalized: Residence of U-M Student Who Dared to Mock Trigger Warnings - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1Afms8N ) [23:40]
mircea_popescu heh. [23:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH3] 5338 @ 0.0012 = 6.4056 BTC [23:45]
BingoBoingo http://www.opensxce.org/ [23:47]
assbot OpenSXCE 201**4**.05 LiveDVD for Intel/AMD IA32 and AMD64 plus for Sun/Oracle SPARC (from 1995' UltraSPARC_I till 2011' sun4v UltraSPARC T3) ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfnEZS ) [23:47]
mod6 root@ip-172-31-10-219:/mnt/btc-dev/sandbox/bitcoin-bitcoin-a8def6b/src# ./bitcoind -rpccommand getblockcount [23:48]
mod6 334499 [23:48]
mod6 oops [23:48]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [23:49]
mircea_popescu ddos ? [23:50]
* assbot removes voice from gesella [23:53]
PeterL speaking of Universities in Michigan, http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2014/12/george_will_speech_set_to_go_a.html [23:53]
assbot George Will speech set to go ahead despite protests to Michigan State trustees | MLive.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfoHci ) [23:53]
PeterL At my alma mater, the school president tells students to grow up, lets the guy speak anyway [23:54]
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BingoBoingo Good for them [23:54]
mircea_popescu who is this will fellow ? [23:55]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Kind of "conservative" writer. Also writes about baseball. [23:56]
mircea_popescu That was the end of the story—until last week, when The College Fix reported that Mahmood's off-campus apartment was vandalized. The four criminals wore hoods and baggy clothing to disguise themselves; less brilliantly, they changed in full view of the apartment complex's security camera. They appear to be women of unclear ages. The video footage is available here. [23:56]
mircea_popescu lulzy. [23:56]
BingoBoingo Does not look like http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/0/0/4/350004_v1.jpg [23:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AfpkTj ) [23:56]
mircea_popescu i could have told you itwas women [23:56]
mircea_popescu who the fuck else imagines "nobody likes you" is a valid attack lmao [23:57]
BingoBoingo Well, you have to admire the stunningly poor opsec. [23:58]
PeterL mircea_popescu: apparently he said something about rape which people did not like [23:58]
mircea_popescu "Remember: anything a prog/leftist/SJW accuses others of doing, they always are guilty of themselves. Always. And that's why they can't see the contradiction here. Because the projection is a defense mechanism. They can't see the contradiction without realizing some very nasty truths about themselves." [23:58]
mircea_popescu comments section's not bad for once. [23:58]
PeterL Reason does have some good commentors, they would fit in well here [23:59]
ben_vulpes may as well invite The Well, PeterL [23:59]
ben_vulpes they have their hole, and it's the best, goddamit [23:59]
mircea_popescu what's that ? [23:59]
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