Forum logs for 22 Mar 2016
Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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| mod6 | thanks for the pointer asciilifeform | [00:09] |
| asciilifeform | mod6: i also liked http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/docs/distilled/adadistilled.pdf | [00:09] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1S2drY1 ) | [00:09] |
| asciilifeform | (113 pgs) | [00:09] |
| mod6 | oh yeah, this first link is a trove of examples. nice. | [00:10] |
| mod6 | If the software must absolutely work wit | [00:12] |
| mod6 | hout error, where a software accident could | [00:12] |
| mod6 | kill or maim, Ada is the correct choice. | [00:12] |
| mod6 | sounds like the right idea | [00:12] |
| asciilifeform | sorta why i unearthed it. | [00:13] |
| phf | (load-canonical-entries) | [00:13] |
| phf | oops, my first ben_vulpes | [00:13] |
| asciilifeform | l0l! | [00:13] |
| mod6 | haha | [00:15] |
| mod6 | there have been, three people iirc that have pasted their passwords in here | [00:16] |
| asciilifeform | mod6: i got into ada ~1y ago. and it was ~very~ reluctantly. | [00:16] |
| asciilifeform | it is a very painful thing, to work in. to the point that as early as the first months folks made jokes that it was a ploy to bog down soviet research establishment, plan being that they would copy it and grind to a halt ! | [00:17] |
| mod6 | yeah, i'd seen the name before, but never heard anything about it until you were talkin about it. now it interests me because bitcoin needs to work better than a goddamn 777 | [00:17] |
| asciilifeform | (su, afaik, never took it up, but pascal was strong there) | [00:17] |
| mod6 | hahaha | [00:18] |
| mod6 | well, we'll see when i start getting into it. ive liked playing with scheme. | [00:18] |
| asciilifeform | i can almost guarantee you won't like ada then. | [00:18] |
| mod6 | i've bee working my way though all the examples in sicp | [00:18] |
| mod6 | eh, im sure if i get the hang of its conventions, etc., i'll get somehow masochistically into it. | [00:19] |
| asciilifeform | the canonical text is by one barnes | [00:20] |
| asciilifeform | i have the 2012 ed. | [00:20] |
| mod6 | oh i got that one ref manual from 95 | [00:20] |
| asciilifeform | (the ~actual~ canon is the standard and rationale books, but they are painful to learn from when n00b) | [00:20] |
| mod6 | yeah, flipping through the book -- it's pretty dense. | [00:21] |
| mod6 | Ada 95 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard << this one | [00:22] |
| mod6 | is tail recursion always defined such that there are O(n) steps in O(1) space? | [00:25] |
| asciilifeform | mod6: only if you have tail-call optimization | [00:26] |
| asciilifeform | as in, e.g., scheme | [00:26] |
| mircea_popescu | if its optiminm | [00:26] |
| asciilifeform | but not, for the most part, anywhere else | [00:26] |
| mod6 | right, they said something about C/C++/et.al that have a loop construct such as 'do/while' 'for' 'foreach' etc, as a defect in the lang. lol | [00:27] |
| mircea_popescu | did everyone see the funarg funerales argentinos thing ? | [00:28] |
| asciilifeform | aha! | [00:28] |
| mircea_popescu | it's still making me chuckle. | [00:28] |
| asciilifeform | they solved the funarg problem!11 | [00:28] |
| mircea_popescu | speaking of which, bitcoin needs not merely a "protocol standard". | [00:29] |
| mircea_popescu | it needs the fucking standard AND RATIONALE book. | [00:29] |
| asciilifeform | quite. | [00:29] |
| mircea_popescu | and we won't even fucking know the standard is anything but elaborate cumcake until the rationale part stands up. | [00:30] |
| asciilifeform | it was the rationale b000k that sold me on putting on the apocalyptic gas mask and doing ada at all. | [00:30] |
| mircea_popescu | and we don't even have the fucking conceptual girder to even comprehend what the rationale'd be on (in terms of, what are the primitives) | [00:31] |
| mircea_popescu | maybe it should be all based on colors for all we know. | [00:31] |
| asciilifeform | quaternions!11 | [00:31] |
| mats | on a moar flippant note, | [00:33] |
| mats | i found a 24x36in wooden frame and currently looking for pranks to play with it (apr1 is fast approaching) | [00:33] |
| mats | my best idea is to print a hi-res portrait of a coworker and put something like 'January 1985 to March 2016' at the bottom, then hide in the office somewhere | [00:34] |
| mats | but, i am open to proposals | [00:34] |
| mircea_popescu | make a fake wasp nest ? | [00:35] |
| mats | (idea with prior is, folks see portrait, then coworker, wonder why a dead man is walking around) | [00:38] |
| mats | a wasps nest could be good, however, i am not strong in the crafting arts | [00:39] |
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| mats | i also considered a portrait of myself, perhaps in a classic mao pose | [00:43] |
| mats | or deng xiaoping | [00:44] |
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| mod6 | oh boy, here we go... http://dpaste.com/2S6W9QR | [01:08] |
| assbot | dpaste: 2S6W9QR ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rf3Uzg ) | [01:08] |
| mod6 | works, seems will take some getting used to though. | [01:08] |
| asciilifeform | congrats mod6! | [01:12] |
| asciilifeform | ada isn't, contrary to appearances, simply a 'bloated c' though. | [01:16] |
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| asciilifeform | it has some mighty aggressive sanity enforcement mechanisms, that really shine in larger proggy. | [01:17] |
| mod6 | coo | [01:23] |
| mod6 | i'll have to keep picking away at it. | [01:24] |
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| deedbot- | [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Census says… - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/21/census-says/ | [02:09] |
| ben_vulpes | tmsr | [02:24] |
| ben_vulpes | motherfucking moving target | [02:24] |
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| kakobrekla | deedbot- http://dpaste.com/0BXHXEK.txt | [03:14] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1U3ElVn ) | [03:14] |
| deedbot- | accepted: 1 | [03:14] |
| davout | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437592 <<< sexy! | [04:00] |
| assbot | Logged on 21-03-2016 23:31:19; ben_vulpes: in more finely-tuned news: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/J85_ge_17a_turbojet_engine.jpg | [04:00] |
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| BingoBoingo | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437635 << They want a new test case. Dialectic continues. | [04:47] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-03-2016 00:16:30; asciilifeform: (the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?) | [04:47] |
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| mats | https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates | [05:24] |
| assbot | Redirect Notice ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEJZv5 ) | [05:24] |
| mats | oops... http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates | [05:24] |
| assbot | Brussels airport: casualties reported after explosions – live updates | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1WEK0PK ) | [05:24] |
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| BingoBoingo | I thought JCVD was supposed to keep these things from happening in Belgium because Action Movie! | [05:44] |
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| jurov | http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/visiting-scarfolk/ british culture ftw | [07:11] |
| assbot | Visiting Scarfolk, the Most Spectacular Dystopia of the 1970s | Collectors Weekly ... ( http://bit.ly/1T4Yedy ) | [07:11] |
| jurov | "Children carry more than 72 known diseases. A bite or scratch can be fatal." | [07:11] |
| assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00041887 = 7.1916 BTC [+] | [07:13] |
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| BingoBoingo | https://i.sli.mg/JytKLG.jpg | [08:22] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/22tuqNX ) | [08:22] |
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| davout | http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2016/03/22/bitcoin-crise-de-croissance-et-querelle-de-chapelle_4887776_3234.html | [09:23] |
| assbot | Bitcoin : crise de croissance et querelle de chapelle ... ( http://bit.ly/1MkreN3 ) | [09:23] |
| davout | major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo | [09:24] |
| deedbot- | [Qntra] Gawker Media Total Damages Up To 140.1 Million dollars - http://qntra.net/2016/03/gawker-media-total-damages-up-to-140-1-million-dollars/ | [09:24] |
| * | BingoBoingo enjoys the "actual damages" getting nice round numbers while punitive damages get a decimal point | [09:27] |
| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437820 << just when usg cryptowarz were sagging... snackbar!111 | [09:45] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-03-2016 08:18:50; mats: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/mar/22/brussels-airport-explosions-live-updates | [09:45] |
| asciilifeform | related orlol: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-color-counterrevolution-cometh.html | [09:46] |
| assbot | ClubOrlov: The Color Counterrevolution Cometh ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sf9x0s ) | [09:46] |
| asciilifeform | where he drinks the loljuice, | [09:47] |
| asciilifeform | 'As I said, the Washington régime is just as hated within the US as it is around the world, if not more. Trump's slogan of “Make America great again!” may sound overly ambitious, but what if his promise is to make America great again at exactly one thing—throwing members of the Washington régime on the ground and stomping on their heads until they pop? I am pretty sure that he can get this done.' | [09:47] |
| jurov | orlov believes in trump? | [09:49] |
| asciilifeform | jurov: apparently | [09:52] |
| asciilifeform | 'You see, in the US hatred of the Washington régime runs very deep, with millions of people sick and tired of being swindled by various hated bureaucracies—in government, law, medicine, education, the military, banking... They hate those who took away their jobs and gave them to foreigners and immigrants. They hate those who stole their retirement savings and ruined their children's futures. They hate the smug university type | [10:05] |
| asciilifeform | making them feel inadequate simply for being who they are—salt of the earth Americans, racist, bigoted, small-minded, parochial, willfully ignorant, armed to the teeth and proud of it. There is very little that the régime can ask of these people, because the response to every possible ask is “no, because we hate you.”' | [10:05] |
| asciilifeform | in other lulz, | [10:20] |
| asciilifeform | from today's server logz, | [10:20] |
| asciilifeform | http://www.twitter/Tweet_a_bad_word_about_an_american_corporation_and_your_tweets_all_get_hidden_from_other_members | [10:20] |
| asciilifeform | http://Microsoft.com/IIS_Web-Server_is_a_NSA_Virus_so_it_is-good_to_see_you_are_not_using_windows_web_Server HTTP/1.1 | [10:20] |
| asciilifeform | http://Please.com/Do_NOT_Embed_anyting_in_your_site_that_links_to/Google/Twitter/Facebook/YouTube_or_any_other_NSA_controlled_sites | [10:20] |
| assbot | We are sorry, the page you requested cannot be found. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S3eZB3 ) | [10:20] |
| jurov | these are http requests to your server? | [10:21] |
| davout | https://twitter.com/CrisiscenterBE/status/712251640594702336 | [10:43] |
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| asciilifeform | jurov: aha | [12:06] |
| asciilifeform | referheaderspam. | [12:06] |
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| mircea_popescu | http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/ << here you go phf | [12:37] |
| assbot | Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwXmZN ) | [12:37] |
| deedbot- | [Trilema] Republican History of Jewry - http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/ | [12:53] |
| mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes> motherfucking moving target << check out the premonitory quality of the vulpes. | [12:56] |
| mircea_popescu | "querelle de chapelle" eh. | [12:57] |
| mircea_popescu | asciilifeform note that technically, the machine can be powered on anything. soviets dekulakized the very dekulakizers at least twice ; mao did it at least once, | [13:00] |
| mircea_popescu | there's nothing special about the various clones of bill de blasio that prevents them from being made into soap. | [13:01] |
| asciilifeform | http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/#comment-116820 | [13:01] |
| assbot | Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwYoFj ) | [13:01] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: aha, best soap | [13:01] |
| mircea_popescu | answer't. | [13:03] |
| asciilifeform | http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/#comment-116822 | [13:04] |
| assbot | Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdORHs ) | [13:04] |
| mircea_popescu | in other news, asciilifeform you ever saw http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109508/ ? | [13:08] |
| assbot | Crumb (1994) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdPwbR ) | [13:08] |
| mircea_popescu | great documentary. (i'm also a crumb fan, so) | [13:08] |
| asciilifeform | i have not, but it sounds like precisely my sort of thing. | [13:08] |
| * | asciilifeform puts on list | [13:08] |
| mircea_popescu | it's one of the best made documentaries i ever saw. | [13:09] |
| mircea_popescu | zwigoff has the decency to stfu and stay away. | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform | mouth-watering | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform | srsly | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform | http://trilema.com/2016/republican-history-of-jewry/#comment-116824 | [13:12] |
| assbot | Republican History of Jewry on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RwYKM6 ) | [13:12] |
| asciilifeform | '... the horde of imbeciles trying to destroy the tower of actual people is very properly the French attack' << inescapably, >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-08-2014#809506 << mental image | [13:22] |
| assbot | Logged on 26-08-2014 01:48:43; asciilifeform: even this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Animation/SuurToll has a page. | [13:22] |
| asciilifeform | mega-recommended cartoon, it shows what my mental picture of mircea_popescu looks like | [13:23] |
| asciilifeform | ( giant, flattens thousands of orcs by wielding an old piece of junk, for as long as he can ) | [13:25] |
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| asciilifeform | ;;later tell mod6 http://www.cs.uni.edu/~mccormic/AdaEssentials/toc.htm << another golden oldie | [13:41] |
| gribble | The operation succeeded. | [13:41] |
| assbot | TableOfContents ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rx0tAX ) | [13:41] |
| kakobrekla | for mp and others: http://fr.anco.is/2016/bitbet-receivership-formal-application-and-letter-of-intent/#comment-8200 | [13:50] |
| assbot | BitBet receivership formal application and letter of intent | fr.anco.is ... ( http://bit.ly/1Rx2j4S ) | [13:50] |
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| asciilifeform | https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#c5881 << lulzy | [14:35] |
| assbot | BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 6 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1VAzFWO ) | [14:36] |
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| BingoBoingo | ;;ticker --market all | [15:25] |
| gribble | Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.24, vol: 3765.96832155 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.851, vol: 5469.25419 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.84, vol: 10558.83503659 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.745285, vol: 33763.96200000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.47, vol: 2197.14009358 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.410112, vol: 38.75157245 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.213873349 | [15:25] |
| ben_vulpes | davout: http://i.imgur.com/uH98Hyq.jpg | [15:32] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1S3VHLV ) | [15:32] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i think i saw this engine in person | [15:37] |
| ben_vulpes | neato! | [15:41] |
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| BingoBoingo | Toronto Mayor Rob Ford has passed away | [16:17] |
| phf | ben_vulpes: do you know any css libraries that will give me bootstrap style layout techniques, without rest of bootstrap (columns, show/hide conditional based on medium) | [16:19] |
| * | assbot gives voice to trinque | [16:20] |
| trinque | phf: ever use flexbox? something resembling a layout system ended up in the standard itself | [16:21] |
| trinque | my approach tends to be to set different flexbox rules depending on viewport size | [16:22] |
| phf | that looks neat, but is there a compiler that adds retro compatibility? | [16:22] |
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| trinque | phf: https://github.com/10up/flexibility << cannot vouch for, but appears to be a polyfill for it | [16:24] |
| * | diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [16:24] |
| assbot | GitHub - 10up/flexibility: Use flexbox while supporting older Internet Explorers ... ( http://bit.ly/1RiOfwB ) | [16:24] |
| phf | that's a bit too many dirty words for my taste, but i'll give it a try | [16:26] |
| * | mrottenkolber (~mrottenko@dslb-084-063-114-193.084.063.pools.vodafone-ip.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [16:29] |
| deedbot- | [Qntra] Brussels Attacked – Western Dream Likely Over - http://qntra.net/2016/03/brussels-attacked-western-dream-likely-over/ | [16:30] |
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| asciilifeform | !up mrottenkolber | [16:39] |
| * | assbot gives voice to mrottenkolber | [16:39] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: v-related question? | [16:40] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: ask away, you are speaking with author of original v | [16:42] |
| asciilifeform | in unrelated nyooz, | [16:45] |
| asciilifeform | http://nozdr.ru/biblio/kolxo3/m/ma | [16:45] |
| asciilifeform | ^^ l337 w4r3z!111 ^^ | [16:45] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: So I dowloaded v99.tar.gz because I thought it was a cool hack, and expected the following to work: (inside the v99 directory): ./v.py -v --wot wot --seals sigs patches f | [16:52] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: But I get WARNING: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig is an INVALID seal for asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch ! | [16:52] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: mod6 packaged a since-expired key for me in that thing | [16:56] |
| asciilifeform | and afaik never updated. | [16:56] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: yep I think thats it. | [16:56] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: get current one from http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xB98228A001ABFFC7 or http://www.loper-os.org/pgp.asc | [16:56] |
| assbot | Public Key Server -- Get "0xb98228a001abffc7 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1TFOcit ) | [16:56] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1mwR9Wt ) | [16:56] |
| mrottenkolber | Cool works. | [16:59] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: enjoy | [17:00] |
| mrottenkolber | Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? (thinking about porting V to git hooks/aliases) | [17:01] |
| * | Alopex has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | [17:02] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: sha1 is obsolete | [17:02] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: see also https://sites.google.com/site/itstheshappening | [17:03] |
| assbot | The Shappening ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pk0paJ ) | [17:03] |
| asciilifeform | forget about using it. for anything. | [17:03] |
| asciilifeform | and porting v onto git is considerably more of a waste of time than the reins on early motorcars | [17:03] |
| asciilifeform | the WHOLE POINT of v is to ditch git and all things like it. | [17:03] |
| * | B0g4r7__ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) | [17:04] |
| asciilifeform | whatever things in git world you miss in v, they were excluded DELIBERATELY | [17:06] |
| * | assbot removes voice from mrottenkolber | [17:09] |
| asciilifeform | !up mrottenkolber | [17:09] |
| * | assbot gives voice to mrottenkolber | [17:09] |
| asciilifeform | no explicit use, for instance, is made of the network. | [17:10] |
| asciilifeform | it is entirely up to you how to get new patches into and out of the box | [17:10] |
| asciilifeform | can use sneakernet and floppies if you like. | [17:10] |
| mrottenkolber | or git? ;-) | [17:11] |
| asciilifeform | or carrier pigeon. | [17:11] |
| asciilifeform | and yes, you are free to replace the hash with sha1 or md5 or crc32 or whatever, just like you are free to buy a toyota and drive it off a cliff | [17:12] |
| asciilifeform | neither i nor toyota have any business saying what you do. | [17:12] |
| mrottenkolber | My point is the toposort isn't really part of the problem v solves. The function is to cryptographically verfiy a sequence of patches (based on a wot), who cares where that sequence comes from, as long as each patch (commit) has a signature. | [17:13] |
| asciilifeform | see in particular http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis 0x00 | [17:13] |
| assbot | The V Manual Genesis on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VBcxqY ) | [17:13] |
| asciilifeform | the toposort ~is~ part of it. | [17:13] |
| asciilifeform | without it, you just have a bag of patches, to be sorted manually | [17:14] |
| asciilifeform | which you did not need a program for, could have done it without me just as well | [17:14] |
| asciilifeform | likewise, the file hashes ~are~ a part of v, it is how you know that the prescribed flow of patches is being successfully followed. | [17:14] |
| asciilifeform | again, without this, you have 'faith-based' patching. | [17:15] |
| asciilifeform | the nailing down of the BITWISE identities of the intermediates, ~is~ part of the point of v. | [17:15] |
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| asciilifeform | the correct context in which v is to be understood is that it is: a weapon of war. | [17:16] |
| asciilifeform | there is an enemy. | [17:16] |
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| trinque | !up Alopex | [17:17] |
| * | assbot gives voice to Alopex | [17:17] |
| trinque | !up B0g4r7__ | [17:17] |
| * | assbot gives voice to B0g4r7__ | [17:17] |
| asciilifeform | the primary weapon of the enemy is the morass of 'nobody read this, nobody understood this' crapolade that 'everything depends on' | [17:17] |
| asciilifeform | e.g., git. | [17:17] |
| asciilifeform | e.g., dns. | [17:17] |
| phf | mrottenkolber: if that's your only goal, you don't need v for that. git already does it for you by having a linearly hashed commit chain. right now you have a reasonable way of verifying the git chain from the top hash, but you can't make any crypto claims about it, since the hashes are sha1 | [17:17] |
| asciilifeform | the modus operandi of the enemy is to insert 'bugs', e.g., 'heartbleed', and to prevent attribution. | [17:18] |
| asciilifeform | 'everything' in 'open source' was written by 'everybody and nobody'. | [17:18] |
| asciilifeform | v is so as to put an end to this idiocy. | [17:18] |
| mrottenkolber | phf: That's why I thought about adding signatures of “git vdiff” to commit messages and an alias/command to verify a branch. | [17:18] |
| asciilifeform | phf: not only are git hashes sha1, but git itself is a gigantic bag of ?????. | [17:20] |
| asciilifeform | that i for one have not read nor verified, nor intend to | [17:20] |
| asciilifeform | wake me up when it's 100 lines TOTAL | [17:20] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: what about diff and gnupg? | [17:20] |
| mrottenkolber | actually nvm | [17:20] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: these are in the queue for replacement. | [17:20] |
| asciilifeform | by things that WE wrote and UNDERSTAND. | [17:21] |
| asciilifeform | but yes, they are sore spots, and due for the chopping block. | [17:21] |
| mrottenkolber | I have to say I like your spirit very much. | [17:21] |
| asciilifeform | it is total war. | [17:22] |
| mrottenkolber | its always been | [17:22] |
| mrottenkolber | I guess | [17:22] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: consider getting in the wot, i will rate you. | [17:22] |
| asciilifeform | you will be able to voice. | [17:22] |
| phf | asciilifeform: well, you can verify data without verifying git. i've done it, and the thing definitely produces a semblance of "blockchain", i.e. later commits hashes previous commits' hashes, so you can if you ignore the sha1 issue, take a git branch and confirm its uniqueness from the final hash | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform | http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets | [17:23] |
| assbot | first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o ) | [17:23] |
| mrottenkolber | will probably not be chatting that much, but I am very keen of actually starting to build some wotness. My gpg is useless right now its so bare. | [17:23] |
| asciilifeform | phf: thing is that i have no intention of ignoring the sha1 issue. sha1 is ~broken~. | [17:23] |
| mrottenkolber | yeah no, you would have to compute sha512 | [17:24] |
| mrottenkolber | which is possible, just not as convenient | [17:24] |
| asciilifeform | 'convenient' does not enter into this. | [17:26] |
| asciilifeform | using a curtain instead of front door to your house is also likewise 'convenient' | [17:27] |
| mrottenkolber | !register 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75 | [17:28] |
| assbot | Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75. This may take a few moments. | [17:28] |
| assbot | Key CF4CDA75 / "Max Rottenkolber |
[17:28] |
| assbot | Registration successful. | [17:28] |
| mrottenkolber | booya | [17:28] |
| phf | mrottenkolber: a better place to wire v would be mercurial's mq facility. mercurial has a way of managing plaintext patchsets, to do things like patch refresh, i.e update the contents of patch from the current tree state, mercurial managed patch press, i.e. instead of doing "manual" v press hg will keep track of state for you, etc. this will not be a way to share patches, as much as a way to facilitate vpatch authoring. | [17:29] |
| asciilifeform | !rate mrottenkolber 1 new blood | [17:29] |
| assbot | Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a5e3416520d38fcd | [17:29] |
| asciilifeform | !assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mrottenkolber.1:68c6afed7ec0113bb290a9e2f0b609f2ea8216f0d0820a80a690cf9960e20096 | [17:30] |
| asciilifeform | !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.mrottenkolber.1:68c6afed7ec0113bb290a9e2f0b609f2ea8216f0d0820a80a690cf9960e20096 | [17:30] |
| assbot | Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: new blood | [17:30] |
| mrottenkolber | I am only mentioning the sha1 option because I don't understand crypto well enough to be able to rationalize the effort of producing a file, with the same sha1sum, with an exploit while the patch still applies. | [17:30] |
| mrottenkolber | Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it. | [17:31] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: you should be able to voice yourself now. | [17:32] |
| mrottenkolber | But e.g. in my head, if you spend 70k to compute a sha1 collision, it won't look like C code probably ;-) | [17:32] |
| mrottenkolber | (complete speculation) | [17:32] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: this is not the important bit. a collision will successfully interfere with the function of automated vtrons, e.g., one where patches are thrown into a hopper unattended | [17:33] |
| asciilifeform | even if the result does not resemble code | [17:33] |
| mrottenkolber | hopper? | [17:33] |
| asciilifeform | well suppose you have a box which accepts patches via email, as jurov has. | [17:34] |
| * | assbot gives voice to mrottenkolber | [17:35] |
| asciilifeform | congrats mrottenkolber | [17:37] |
| mrottenkolber | Cool bot! | [17:37] |
| mrottenkolber | But... am I even connected using ssl? no idea | [17:37] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: how did you come upon b-a ? | [17:37] |
| mircea_popescu | will be signign the davout application later today myself. | [17:37] |
| mrottenkolber | I read about v and liked the hack, ran into the expired signature and well... | [17:38] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: read where | [17:38] |
| mrottenkolber | HN probably | [17:38] |
| mircea_popescu | mrottenkolber> Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? << roughly speaking you'd be going back in time, we're by and large in the process of moving to sha-3 | [17:38] |
| mircea_popescu | asciilifeform something tells me commenter has never seen hyenas. wtf, some of the most social animals, in its good days washington dc polite society more or less approximates pack of hyenas. | [17:40] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: aha! | [17:40] |
| asciilifeform | they do! i have seen. | [17:40] |
| mrottenkolber | I have absolutely no interest in bitcoin to be honest, don't see the point. | [17:40] |
| asciilifeform | 'After the burial-parties leave. And the baffled kites have fled;. The wise hyænas come out at eve. To take account of our dead. ' | [17:40] |
| asciilifeform | (kipling) | [17:40] |
| mircea_popescu | mrottenkolber nothing i said was related to bitcoin, was it ? | [17:40] |
| mrottenkolber | mircea_popescu: No, sorry, still mumbling aout the why I am in b-a | [17:41] |
| mircea_popescu | ah ah. | [17:41] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: you are in good company, i also do not use bitcoin with any appreciable frequency... | [17:41] |
| asciilifeform | v and bitcoin are related by happenstance, as git and linux kernel were. | [17:41] |
| mircea_popescu | well if you're curious, free money is the basis for the existence of the republic which is the reason stuff like v ended up existing. but i suppose from outside this string of actual events may as well be coincidental. | [17:42] |
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| mrottenkolber | I totally get why bitcoin development motivates v, obviously there is motivation for adversaries here. | [17:44] |
| mrottenkolber | what republic though? | [17:44] |
| mrottenkolber | I am indeed using ssl to connect to freenode, this assbot thing might actually work. :D | [17:46] |
| mircea_popescu | !s tmsr | [17:47] |
| assbot | 199 results for 'tmsr' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tmsr | [17:47] |
| * | assbot removes voice from Alopex | [17:47] |
| * | assbot removes voice from B0g4r7__ | [17:47] |
| phf | we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week. | [17:47] |
| mircea_popescu | turns out, re prev tagging discussion, that ... we're already doing a rudimentary, grassroots sort of that. | [17:48] |
| trinque | there's some lovely filth over here! | [17:48] |
| mrottenkolber | oh anarcho-syndicalism I dig that | [17:48] |
| mircea_popescu | but my main concern with that scheme, upon meditation, is that... ok, brace yourselves : | [17:48] |
| mircea_popescu | mrottenkolber don't kid yourself, they're living in a dictator sheep. | [17:48] |
| phf | trinque: now you're confusing it with eulora | [17:48] |
| trinque | lol | [17:48] |
| mircea_popescu | so, IF we start tagging things in chan, this is indistinguishable from good old spam. (textual content of no textual intent). | [17:49] |
| mircea_popescu | i suppose this could be mediated by doing the tagging over pm | [17:49] |
| mircea_popescu | but the problem is actually hairer than hoped. | [17:49] |
| trinque | hm. it does invite that abominable hashtag social media tic. | [17:51] |
| davout | please no #b-ashtags | [17:52] |
| * | binaryatrocity (~quassel@unaffiliated/br4n) has left #bitcoin-assets | [17:52] |
| phf | #meta #tmsr~ | [17:52] |
| davout | if nobody remembers how to find a particular thread, maybe that thread isn't really worth remembering after all | [17:53] |
| mircea_popescu | davout the original complaint was re completeness. | [17:53] |
| mircea_popescu | if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty. | [17:54] |
| davout | re the mp describes a HF that danielpbarron ended up blawging about? | [17:54] |
| mircea_popescu | sorry ? | [17:54] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: Ah there go found it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11317378 (my browser history scares me) | [17:55] |
| assbot | Vectored Signatures | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1pvFQi8 ) | [17:55] |
| mircea_popescu | phf either b,tmsr~ or else tmsr! there is no tmsr~! | [17:55] |
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| davout | ok, i meant that this issue came up when you were talking about "what should go into a tmsr fork" that danielpbarron ended up summarizing on his blog? | [17:56] |
| mircea_popescu | ah yeah i think that was when it came up | [17:56] |
| * | belphegor` has quit (Remote host closed the connection) | [17:56] |
| davout | anyway, my point is that if nobody remembers, that nobody bothered to blog it, the fact that completeness is a problem might indicate a violation of fits-in-head | [17:57] |
| * | da2ce7 has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | [17:57] |
| mircea_popescu | so it might, yeah... | [17:57] |
| ben_vulpes | fitting in head requires lopping all extraneous log comments off. | [17:57] |
| mircea_popescu | would actually the idea of pm tagging for each DAY solve anything / be worth anything ? | [17:58] |
| mircea_popescu | or is it the sort of midway solution that's the average of man and woman and horse and chimney ? | [17:58] |
| ben_vulpes | i recently took a 45 minute sojourn into the history of "protocol vs. promise" | [17:58] |
| ben_vulpes | 'twas not actually that hard, but it did take knowing the variety speak thoroughly. | [17:58] |
| davout | mircea_popescu: maybe use log.b-a.com for that purpose? how would pm tagging work? | [17:59] |
| mircea_popescu | the sad fact of the matter is that summarization squarely relies on ignorance. there's no obvious way around that rock. | [17:59] |
| mircea_popescu | davout you pm deedbot with a list of strings which it retains for the day, prints a cloud somewhere, one can click items in cloud to get list of days so tagged | [17:59] |
| * | Reydev2 (~reydev@ip-213-127-93-221.ip.prioritytelecom.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets | [17:59] |
| mircea_popescu | but the complexity of this notion is rapidly expanding. | [17:59] |
| ben_vulpes | another good topic is "specificity of diddling". | [17:59] |
| ben_vulpes | i have been failing to shit words on the topic out because i think of familiarity with it. it all seems so obvious! | [18:00] |
| mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema! | [18:01] |
| ben_vulpes | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=22-11-2015#1329599 << summarization also relies on knowing precisely what /can/ be snipped. | [18:01] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed. | [18:01] |
| mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes what can be snipped FOR WHOM. | [18:01] |
| ben_vulpes | catch-22 | [18:01] |
| mircea_popescu | ~only way to make a shorter text reliably is to rely on specified notation known in advance. | [18:02] |
| * | Reydev has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) | [18:02] |
| mircea_popescu | otherwise, "compression" still an open problem. | [18:02] |
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| mircea_popescu | !rate mrottenkolber 1 New blood | [18:03] |
| assbot | Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/9de879a999b2be22 | [18:03] |
| mircea_popescu | !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mrottenkolber.1:7ae7bb4fe0a9bf41b838dc065d19fceca42142f999e7016fa2cd143e92a2412f | [18:04] |
| assbot | Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: New blood | [18:04] |
| mircea_popescu | phf i heard this privately too, during rebasing debate, "pretty much the only way to manage this insanity is to put it on mercurial" | [18:05] |
| mircea_popescu | mrottenkolber> Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it. << trivial, add comment. | [18:05] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: still regretting not doing that ? | [18:05] |
| mircea_popescu | asciilifeform doing what ? | [18:05] |
| asciilifeform | (someone iirc actually said 'use darcs') | [18:06] |
| asciilifeform | going with heathen versionatrons | [18:06] |
| mircea_popescu | non, rien de rien, je ne regrette rien! ni le bon, ni le mal... | [18:06] |
| asciilifeform | ^ | [18:06] |
| mircea_popescu | i wish she was in fucking b-a. | [18:07] |
| asciilifeform | can we also haz marilyn m ? | [18:07] |
| mircea_popescu | what do you need buttgirl in irc for ? buy her lunch. | [18:08] |
| asciilifeform | point. | [18:08] |
| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1438049 << the only solution is with actual brainz, folks writin' articles. | [18:08] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-03-2016 20:49:10; mircea_popescu: if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty. | [18:08] |
| asciilifeform | sorta what pete_dushenski was trying to do at one time | [18:09] |
| asciilifeform | iirc | [18:09] |
| mircea_popescu | sorry, can't have brainz. zombies ate them ~all. | [18:09] |
| phf | mercurial has a handy patch management mechanism, that unfortunatly doesn't understand nor produces vpatches. i basically verify vpatches manually, and then put them into hg's patch folder. then i do a topo sort, which gives me a mercurial compatible "series" file. i let mercurial press it using that series file. whole process is more complicated then should be with a proper mercurial support, but i hnfi how people rebase, refresh, | [18:09] |
| phf | diff, etc. without it | [18:09] |
| phf | mechanism has nothing to do with "mercurial" as such, and is more akin to old school patch management system, "quilt" | [18:10] |
| phf | https://www.mercurial-scm.org/wiki/MqExtension and http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/quilt for the curious | [18:11] |
| assbot | MqExtension - Mercurial ... ( http://bit.ly/1ULuMcu ) | [18:11] |
| assbot | Quilt - Summary [Savannah] ... ( http://bit.ly/1ULuMcB ) | [18:11] |
| mircea_popescu | not like it couldn't in principle be gutted/rewritten in part. | [18:11] |
| ben_vulpes | i press to confirm patch validity and then commit the changes to my local version controlatron. | [18:11] |
| ben_vulpes | that way i can rebase, etc whenever i care to. | [18:11] |
| mircea_popescu | chocolatron ? | [18:11] |
| mircea_popescu | o nm. | [18:12] |
| asciilifeform | am i the only one without fancy mechanisms here ? | [18:12] |
| ben_vulpes | what about this is fancy? | [18:12] |
| mircea_popescu | nah, i generally don't do any of that either. | [18:12] |
| mircea_popescu | then again, the people who aren't me that actually care/understand computers tend to . | [18:12] |
| asciilifeform | i use v + bare teeth | [18:12] |
| ben_vulpes | yes but you like pain | [18:12] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i like right pain | [18:12] |
| asciilifeform | not idiot rote | [18:13] |
| asciilifeform | but i was reluctant to write v, if you recall, because i considered the problem it solves to be a trivial / muscle thing | [18:13] |
| ben_vulpes | aha | [18:13] |
| asciilifeform | but iirc mircea_popescu & hanbot et al disagreed, so v had to be. | [18:13] |
| mircea_popescu | it's splendid, really. the fact that i can run it on a random box and trust the result pales anything else. | [18:14] |
| ben_vulpes | perhaps the *other* way to go about this is simply to make patches against the base 0.5.3, and then anyone wanting to apply them may do so in whatever order they choose, resolving conflicts as they feel. | [18:14] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: this'd result in gargantuan lengths of duplicated crapola | [18:14] |
| asciilifeform | ick | [18:14] |
| mircea_popescu | well alternatively one could also shit on exposed cable and let the bits sort themselves into software as they will | [18:14] |
| ben_vulpes | why? | [18:14] |
| mircea_popescu | why the hell not. how much worse than present situation could it be. | [18:14] |
| ben_vulpes | onm. | [18:14] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: i'm not reading a MB of crud i've seen before. | [18:14] |
| asciilifeform | i'd rather shit in the cable. | [18:14] |
| ben_vulpes | yes yes | [18:14] |
| asciilifeform | as per mircea_popescu's formula. | [18:14] |
| ben_vulpes | fine. | [18:15] |
| asciilifeform | understand, a 10kB patch is ~LONG~ | [18:15] |
| mircea_popescu | no, v is great even if painful - because it's painful to the right people, which are the people who aren't me. | [18:15] |
| ben_vulpes | and only if used as a hammer and not microscope. | [18:16] |
| mircea_popescu | that's the other thjing. | [18:16] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it is also very painful to the enemy at the business end of the barrel, which is what matters | [18:16] |
| mircea_popescu | that's what i said! | [18:16] |
| asciilifeform | but yes, like kalash, it is not built for comfort of the wielder so much as for maximum effect. | [18:17] |
| asciilifeform | kalash is not even my model for imitation, but closer to... japanese lance mine. | [18:17] |
| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1438070 << aaaactually mircea_popescu invented specificity-of-diddling-theorem, i just heavisided it | [18:30] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-03-2016 20:56:07; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema! | [18:30] |
| asciilifeform | well, he ampered it, at least, and i did some of the maxwellizing and pretty much all of the heavisiding. | [18:31] |
| mircea_popescu | eh, the chinese invented it 3k years ago | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu | invention is like true love. you gotta be a certain age to believe it with all your heart. | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu | hopefully you never get old enough to credit it altogether. | [18:37] |
| mircea_popescu | to stop crediting it altogether, i mean. | [18:37] |
| asciilifeform | going for modest thing here, not trooo luvvv, but good fuq. | [18:38] |
| asciilifeform | this - can be had. | [18:39] |
| * | davout guesses that's one field where stuff done by hand is actually easier | [18:45] |
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| * | assbot gives voice to benrav | [19:11] |
| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437915 << possibly, i have not yet picked it up | [19:13] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-03-2016 19:44:42; nubbins`: asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet? | [19:13] |
| asciilifeform | nubbins`: the post in my town keeps 'banker hours' | [19:13] |
| ben_vulpes | asciilifeform: boxes do not get delivered to your domicile? | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: valuable/unique items from ~humans~, i like to sit at the post | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: parcels from commercial mega-vendors, can go to the house, if they get misplaced insurance pays. | [19:35] |
| ben_vulpes | this is a special hell of paranoia, asciilifeform. | [19:36] |
| mircea_popescu | ;;bc,stats | [19:37] |
| gribble | Current Blocks: 403836 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 1379 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None | [19:37] |
| mircea_popescu | !up benrav | [19:38] |
| -assbot- | You voiced benrav for another 30 minutes. | [19:38] |
| * | assbot gives voice to benrav | [19:38] |
| asciilifeform | ben_vulpes: we have diagnosable tards delivering parcels, they often end up miles away, for no discernible reason | [19:38] |
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| * | assbot gives voice to gernika | [20:03] |
| gernika | apropos of nothing, I just attempted to download a .pdf formatted datasheet and received a PDF FORMATTED error message. | [20:05] |
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| mircea_popescu | not bad lol. | [20:14] |
| * | davout recently learned that PDF could contain javascript | [20:15] |
| mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2016#1437833 << i just read that and lolled. seriously, piece pretending nsa-gavin is somehow involved in or related to bitcoin ? leading with a quote from karpeles ? is this yves eudes hardcore trolling the collection of wanna-be derps that read le monde or what ? | [20:16] |
| assbot | Logged on 22-03-2016 12:19:03; davout: major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo | [20:16] |
| davout | where do you see a karpeles quote? | [20:17] |
| davout | "Victime de son succès" ? | [20:17] |
| mircea_popescu | well ? | [20:17] |
| davout | well what? | [20:18] |
| mircea_popescu | yes, that. | [20:19] |
| mircea_popescu | "bitcoin in terms of gavin and maku kalaposu", a pretty good satirical premise, i grant. | [20:19] |
| davout | anyway, the article is obviously a massive piece of shit, maybe you'll be interdasted in http://www.lemonde.fr/pixels/article/2015/12/09/le-fondateur-du-bitcoin-enfin-demasque_4827912_4408996.html | [20:19] |
| assbot | Le fondateur du bitcoin enfin démasqué en Australie ? ... ( http://bit.ly/21G8ZU1 ) | [20:19] |
| mrottenkolber | I preset... git-vdiff.sh (ducks): https://gist.github.com/eugeneia/7d34c270f8d1603c48f0 | [20:19] |
| assbot | git-vdiff.sh · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/21G90av ) | [20:19] |
| mircea_popescu | you pressed ? | [20:19] |
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| mircea_popescu | !up locksley | [20:20] |
| -assbot- | You voiced locksley for 30 minutes. | [20:20] |
| * | assbot gives voice to locksley | [20:20] |
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| mircea_popescu | mrottenkolber http://mr.gy is you ? | [20:21] |
| assbot | Max Rottenkolber's personal website ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ry8kEM ) | [20:21] |
| mrottenkolber | it is | [20:27] |
| mrottenkolber | I found https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Signing-Your-Work by the way | [20:27] |
| assbot | Git - Signing Your Work ... ( http://bit.ly/21G9NZ6 ) | [20:27] |
| mrottenkolber | Not sure what `git commit -S' signs exactly, but... | [20:27] |
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| mrottenkolber | assuming it signs the whole commit object, given `merge --verify-signatures' is probably reasonably secure. | [20:32] |
| mrottenkolber | Which I guess would be the parallel to press | [20:32] |
| ben_vulpes | mrottenkolber: forgive my thickness but /why/ are you doing this? | [20:34] |
| mrottenkolber | research | [20:37] |
| trinque | +mrottenkolber │ assuming ... is probably reasonably secure. << pls do not give poor asciilifeform an early death by ulcer | [20:39] |
| asciilifeform | http://www.thisiscolossal.com/2016/02/a-3d-printed-sundial-displays-time-like-a-digital-clock << mega-pr0gr355555 | [20:47] |
| assbot | A 3D Printed Sundial Displays Time Like a Digital Clock | Colossal ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyavIo ) | [20:48] |
| mircea_popescu | lol they finally found the true vocation of 3d printed items, glorified doorstops ? | [20:50] |
| phf | mrottenkolber: unfortunately there seems to be no way to enforce security in git, no way to enable some always_gnupg flag, nor is there a mechanism to add default arguments to some builtin commands. | [21:06] |
| phf | nor is there an easy way to answer "what was signed" question, short of reading source. you just have to assume that right bits go in, and that nobody's going to change what bits go in in future releases, etc. | [21:09] |
| ben_vulpes | pretty good example of the "promise" end of the spectrum. | [21:21] |
| phf | there's commit.gpgsign, but i don't see anything for --verify-signatures | [21:23] |
| phf | suggested solutions include writing update hooks, that in turn involve plenty of goo' ol' foo=$(bar|sed|awk) | [21:26] |
| assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4131 @ 0.00042201 = 1.7433 BTC [+] {2} | [21:26] |
| gernika | I have a friend who may have found a valid use for 3d printers: he's built 4 of them in his garage and uses them to prototype electronic toy parts. | [21:28] |
| gernika | aparently also uses random items such as various tupperware containers. | [21:28] |
| ben_vulpes | why would you put food in that plastic | [21:31] |
| gernika | so you can forget about it while it rots in the refrigerator? | [21:32] |
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| mircea_popescu | it's actually a pretty serious health risk. the plasticisers / other treatments that make the 3d feedstock behave sufficiently like ink are all items of concern in food chain. | [21:36] |
| ben_vulpes | yech | [21:39] |
| ben_vulpes | in other news, i finally put a tv in the conference room and it is now apparently the dedicated "5 hours of rocket explosions on a loop" device | [21:39] |
| mircea_popescu | incidentally : the ancient myths of "person-in-construction" have a practical backing in the roman practice of using fat and sometimes blood as a plasticizer in concrete. | [21:39] |
| mircea_popescu | it's a hugely interesting topic, this. | [21:40] |
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| mircea_popescu | strength of concrete is inverse to the added water, up to a point, but that makes it hard to work. | [21:40] |
| mircea_popescu | and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/5d970ed60a915e5f9456ce72372542f8/tumblr_mpzy6dfGsu1rzjdvqo1_1280.jpg | [21:57] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1RjvfhE ) | [21:58] |
| mrottenkolber | why does assbot echo bit.ly links? seems redundant | [22:04] |
| mircea_popescu | so you don't leak your ip by visiting links ; so you archive their contents if you want to. | [22:04] |
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| mod6 | thanks for the link alf | [22:16] |
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| phf | so here's a definitive answer the question "gpg what you sign" http://paste.lisp.org/display/311222 | [22:41] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1RyjOrS ) | [22:41] |
| phf | basically some equivalent of "tree 182073587b70313f13678c6e1389cb6c94dd3c69 author foo committer foo commit message ... " |
[22:43] |
| mircea_popescu | is this a git extension ? | [22:44] |
| * | joesmoe has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) | [22:47] |
| phf | nah, above paste is a hack that repeats the steps that git goes through in order to verify a signature on a commit (as seen here https://github.com/git/git/blob/f02fbc4f9433937ee0463d0342d6d7d97e1f6f1e/commit.c#L1124), and purpose is to answer the question "wtf does git sign" | [22:47] |
| assbot | git/commit.c at f02fbc4f9433937ee0463d0342d6d7d97e1f6f1e · git/git · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ryk9KY ) | [22:47] |
| mircea_popescu | a ok | [22:49] |
| mrottenkolber | So I learned today that git does't use sha1 as I thought, but its own git-hash-object | [22:49] |
| mrottenkolber | Which is probably less cryptographically “secure” as sha1 (wild guess) | [22:50] |
| mrottenkolber | wait nvm | [22:51] |
| mrottenkolber | oh its late, it uses sha1 obviously but not on plain files >.> | [22:52] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: there are threads in the logs re: poor hygiene of git. | [22:53] |
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| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438202 << somebody wake up diametric and his 11 (?) handmade 3d printerz | [22:55] |
| assbot | Logged on 23-03-2016 00:23:16; gernika: I have a friend who may have found a valid use for 3d printers: he's built 4 of them in his garage and uses them to prototype electronic toy parts. | [22:55] |
| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438206 << iirc most folks print with abs. | [22:56] |
| assbot | Logged on 23-03-2016 00:31:03; mircea_popescu: it's actually a pretty serious health risk. the plasticisers / other treatments that make the 3d feedstock behave sufficiently like ink are all items of concern in food chain. | [22:56] |
| asciilifeform | same thing of which your keyboard (if it is any good) is made. | [22:56] |
| mircea_popescu | keyboard is already set ; and chock-full of phtalates when new. | [22:57] |
| mod6 | boy oh boy. looks like all you can hope for with Ada and issuing system commands is to redirect the output to a file, and the read the file. | [22:57] |
| mod6 | s/the/then/ | [22:57] |
| asciilifeform | abs is not thermosetting | [22:57] |
| mircea_popescu | orly ? | [22:57] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: what do you mean by hygiene? | [22:57] |
| asciilifeform | mod6: a proper vtron won't call out to shell | [22:57] |
| mod6 | gpg libs give me ulcers | [22:58] |
| asciilifeform | mod6: there are no libs | [22:59] |
| asciilifeform | mod6: correct vtron will exponentiate inside itself. | [22:59] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: abs melts and cools, and melts again, etc. this is why 3d printer is even a thing | [22:59] |
| mod6 | well, i guess i can appreciate that. i was simply going to write a V in Ada as a way to learn Ada. | [23:01] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: no phthalate in abs | [23:03] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: hygiene is a broad concept, but it starts with excluding known filth | [23:04] |
| asciilifeform | and proceeds to throwing out the vaguely filthy and the contaminated-by-contact | [23:04] |
| asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2016#1438197 << illustration of what bad hygiene looks like | [23:05] |
| assbot | Logged on 23-03-2016 00:04:06; phf: nor is there an easy way to answer "what was signed" question, short of reading source. you just have to assume that right bits go in, and that nobody's going to change what bits go in in future releases, etc. | [23:05] |
| asciilifeform | more broadly, i have nfi what goes inside a '.git' directory, and the effort required to understand it is substantial | [23:06] |
| mircea_popescu | asciilifeform iirc abs is the more expensive sort of ink. | [23:07] |
| asciilifeform | (~understand~ meaning FULLY, as in - ~all~ edge cases) | [23:07] |
| mrottenkolber | I can recommend “Git from the bottom up”, git at its core is actually quite... minimalistic. | [23:07] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: the other popular feedstock is pla, which is made of corn exhaust | [23:07] |
| asciilifeform | mrottenkolber: how long is the git source and ALL dependencies. | [23:07] |
| asciilifeform | that is what i am speaking of, when i say 'understand' | [23:08] |
| mrottenkolber | and it was kind of obvious that it signs the commit object, I mean what else? | [23:08] |
| mircea_popescu | i dunno why i thought it's mostly pvc. seems not. | [23:08] |
| asciilifeform | so that'd be a hash of a hash ? | [23:08] |
| trinque | mrottenkolber: behind the words one knows there can be an expanse of rusty gears and dirty secrets | [23:08] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: wtf, nobody prints pvc, good way to gasenwagen | [23:08] |
| asciilifeform | (pvc iirc releases hcl, in a room where it has been burned, electronics slowly rot away and must be written off) | [23:09] |
| mircea_popescu | well, all burned plastics release something. | [23:09] |
| mircea_popescu | abs iirc releases hcn. | [23:09] |
| mrottenkolber | asciilifeform: I hash of some metadata and a hash of tons of hashes of tns of hashes lol | [23:10] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it does. | [23:10] |
| trinque | mrottenkolber: consider that as specified the total source code involved in a vtron can *decrease* drastically from here. | [23:10] |
| mircea_popescu | anyway. apparently all sorts of thing OTHER than polycarbonate are #7 now. | [23:11] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: but in either case 3d printer, unless catastrophically miscalibrated, does not ignite | [23:11] |
| mircea_popescu | well done idjits for making a mess of things. | [23:11] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: it is, more or less, a 'glue gun on wheels' | [23:11] |
| mircea_popescu | aha | [23:12] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: they installed one at $rupturefarm a few days ago, i still can't quite figure out why, thing is huge | [23:12] |
| mrottenkolber | good night guys | [23:16] |
| mrottenkolber | see you around | [23:16] |
| phf | mrottenkolber: things are always obvious until someone does the work discovery and then it's "who could've predicted" | [23:16] |
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| * | assbot gives voice to diametric | [23:24] |
| mircea_popescu | deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3KRPFFE.txt | [23:25] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1RymTbh ) | [23:25] |
| deedbot- | accepted: 1 | [23:25] |
| mircea_popescu | davout ^ you're on. | [23:25] |
| diametric | asciilifeform: most people use pla. it's a lot easier to deal with. abs requires higher temps and a heated bed. but recently there are a lot of people printing with petg, and various composites. i just saw some "ironfill", a blend of iron powder and pla. | [23:26] |
| mircea_popescu | aha! | [23:27] |
| mircea_popescu | diametric so what's the toxicity profile like, for the activity broadly speaking ? | [23:27] |
| diametric | about the same as walking around a major city i imagine. | [23:28] |
| diametric | theres a lot of talk about ufps | [23:28] |
| mircea_popescu | ic | [23:29] |
| diametric | but not a lot of peer reviewed evidence of any real danger | [23:29] |
| asciilifeform | congrats davout ! | [23:29] |
| asciilifeform | welcome back to planet of civilization, diametric ! | [23:29] |
| diametric | i lurk | [23:29] |
| diametric | mircea_popescu: i'll let you know if i develop popcorn lung | [23:30] |
| mircea_popescu | kk! | [23:30] |
| mircea_popescu | twas in my head closer to "you know, printer in 1930" than "you know, starbux barrista" | [23:31] |
| asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: i think modern baseline is close to 'printer in 1930' | [23:31] |
| mircea_popescu | also possibru | [23:31] |
| asciilifeform | somewhere between that and 'match girl' | [23:31] |
| asciilifeform | diametric: ironfill sounds interesting, can you steer it magnetically ? | [23:32] |
| diametric | absolutely | [23:32] |
| diametric | asciilifeform: https://www.matterhackers.com/3d-printer-filament-compare#composite-filament | [23:33] |
| assbot | 3D Printer Filament Comparison | MatterHackers ... ( http://bit.ly/1RynlGC ) | [23:33] |
| asciilifeform | the ceramic filament looks appealing, one could print molds and pour, e.g., al | [23:34] |
| diametric | asciilifeform: its funny you bring up 3d printing, i just returned from the midwest reprap festival | [23:37] |
| asciilifeform | neato! | [23:37] |
| asciilifeform | any groundbreaking advances there ? | [23:37] |
| diametric | some interesting vat related stuff on the sla side | [23:37] |
| diametric | picked myself up a flex vat | [23:38] |
| asciilifeform | the thing with the projector and photosensitive gel ? | [23:38] |
| diametric | basically the vat for curing the SLA layers on is flexible, so when the print moves up a layer, the whole vat deforms in order to overcome the van der waals effect | [23:38] |
| diametric | yeah | [23:38] |
| asciilifeform | so looks something like the accordion from old daguerrotype camera ? | [23:39] |
| mircea_popescu | more like a ball with inserts nah ? | [23:39] |
| diametric | nah the vat is made out of a thin layer of FEP, so its like a clear rubber | [23:39] |
| diametric | http://www.muve3d.net/press/product/flexvat/ | [23:39] |
| assbot | FlexVat – Standard and Large | ... ( http://bit.ly/1WH3HGy ) | [23:39] |
| diametric | my buddy at seemecnc gave me one for free | [23:40] |
| asciilifeform | hm, that looks like just a frame ? | [23:40] |
| asciilifeform | where is the rubber | [23:40] |
| diametric | zoom in | [23:40] |
| diametric | its the clear thing held down by the frame | [23:40] |
| diametric | thats actually not the one i got, hangon. | [23:41] |
| diametric | http://www.seemecnc.com/products/universal-flexible-resin-vat-reservoir-for-diy-resin-printers | [23:41] |
| assbot | Universal Flexible Resin Vat Reservoir for DIY resin printers – SeeMeCNC ... ( http://bit.ly/1WH3Mdf ) | [23:41] |
| diametric | its sandwiched in the frame | [23:41] |
| diametric | a thin sheet of FEP | [23:41] |
| asciilifeform | ah hm | [23:41] |
| mircea_popescu | but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/887be64336a8812a974cba1fbd93e008/tumblr_nid02tKqmo1rmrwgqo1_1280.jpg | [23:42] |
| assbot | ... ( http://bit.ly/1RynTMO ) | [23:42] |
| asciilifeform | l0l! | [23:42] |
| asciilifeform | i'm actually mildly surprised that mircea_popescu doesn't have a 3d printer somewhere | [23:43] |
| asciilifeform | and making custom butt plugs, gags, to 5% accuracy | [23:43] |
| mircea_popescu | good buttplugs are surgical steel ; good gags cured leather etc. | [23:44] |
| asciilifeform | ah hm. | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu | really, little use for plastic in life. | [23:44] |
| diametric | my favorite is still the giant thermochromatic cock | [23:44] |
| asciilifeform | then lathe! | [23:44] |
| asciilifeform | and tanning shop. | [23:44] |
| * | paxtoncamaro91_ is now known as madpax | [23:46] |
Category: Logs
