Forum logs for 21 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu anyway : quantum tunneling is the observed property of quantum "particles" to interact at a distance without ever interacting with whatever's separating their first position from the second. [00:00]
mircea_popescu this is most annoying when for instance electrons ignore dielectrics [00:00]
nubbins` that's quantum entanglement, no? [00:00]
mircea_popescu no. [00:00]
nubbins` quantum tunneling is when i go outside but skip the door [00:00]
mircea_popescu quantum entanglement is the property of two apparently distinct "particles" to share more than they should. [00:00]
mircea_popescu as a rule of thumb, the first occurs over tiny distances, the 2nd is distance-invariant [00:01]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` yes, something like that. as if you could only be right before or right after the door but not in between. [00:02]
nubbins` this is all the sort of thing i understand while reading it but don't really copy it over to long-term storage [00:02]
mircea_popescu depends a lot on your energy. [00:02]
nubbins` yeah [00:02]
mircea_popescu but then again in qm, your existence is not so distinct from your energy. [00:02]
mircea_popescu how did that line go, [00:02]
asciilifeform the long-distance one behaves exclusively like a pair of synched rng. [00:02]
mircea_popescu ;;google money over power, power over money [00:02]
gribble WAREN G & SISSEL - THE RAPSODY PRINCE IGOR - YouTube: ; Warren G - Prince Igor Lyrics | MetroLyrics: ; JWTM – Money Over Power Lyrics | Genius: [00:02]
asciilifeform the short-distance (tunnel) on the other hand is one of the weapons by which 'moore's law' is dying - http://www.iue.tuwien.ac.at/phd/entner/node23.html [00:04]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FODLm0 ) [00:04]
asciilifeform http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/barr.html << for folks who like to play with the numbers [00:05]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOE1BN ) [00:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite. [00:05]
mircea_popescu just about at the 5ish nm level it takes over iirc [00:05]
decimation asciilifeform: re: conversation about neighborhood isp: turns out there is a town about an hour away from you that is attempting to provide its own gigabit fiber service: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-startup-offering-gigabit-fiber-is-expanding-to-a-second-comcast-dominated-city [00:07]
assbot A Startup Offering Gigabit Fiber Is Expanding to a Second Comcast-Dominated City | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOEpQt ) [00:07]
mircea_popescu decimation a startup != a town tho neh ? [00:07]
asciilifeform was about to say. [00:07]
asciilifeform show me a town where anyone freely digs up the roads. [00:08]
asciilifeform not even in africa. [00:08]
decimation no if you read the article, the 'startup' is actually a division of tucows, the domainame freeware site [00:08]
decimation and they are merely 'operating' the network after westminster, md builds it [00:08]
decimation " "We want to blow this thing up, and we want disruptive services at disruptive pricing," Robert Wack, Westminster's city council president, told me. "We've got Comcast and its usual suite of services, Verizon DSL, with its patchy service areas, and dish and satellite services. Nobody is happy with any of it, and none of it has the capacity we need to take this city into the future."" [00:09]
asciilifeform verizomcast is doomed to play 'bad cop' to the 'good cop' of usgnet [00:09]
asciilifeform (or whatever name it ends up taking) [00:09]
decimation apparently tucows is on usg's shitlist because it won't play ball [00:10]
decimation http://motherboard.vice.com/read/inside-the-notorious-canadian-internet-company-targeted-by-the-us-government " As previously mentioned, Tucows landed on the US Trade Representative’s annual list of notorious markets due to the company’s practice of not responding to takedown requests from companies alleging that Tucows registers domains for sites selling illegal goods. This is despite the fact that a domain name registrar has [00:10]
assbot Inside the 'Notorious' Canadian Internet Company Targeted by the US Government | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOFnfA ) [00:10]
decimation essentially no say in the content of the websites on its roster, Bunton told me. " [00:10]
asciilifeform idea is that they 'have the choice to surrender to usg' and didn't make it [00:12]
decimation yeah I guess that's the idea, but it seems dubious that usg will tolerate such behavior [00:13]
decimation especially when it has its own blessed monopolists [00:13]
nubbins` wonder will the town wait to be sued before giving up subscriber info [00:15]
asciilifeform lol 'giving up' when isp (and credit card co) pipe it to usg in milliseconds when subscriber pays [00:15]
asciilifeform and continuously after [00:16]
nubbins` :D [00:16]
nubbins` if i wanna see a card trick, i don't want you to hold the deck face-up [00:16]
asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9GJPoMs30E << historical interest [00:17]
assbot Guillotine in the basement of German Reichstag - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bf9tCJ ) [00:17]
nubbins` man, i remember tucows from back when i had to buy a book to use the internet [00:17]
decimation asciilifeform: I don't get why we don't still use the guillotine [00:18]
decimation seems pretty fast and efficient [00:18]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967169 [00:18]
assbot Logged on 07-01-2015 00:39:01; *: asciilifeform has been enjoying 'Seeing Justice Done. The Age of Spectacular Capital Punishment in France.' (Paul Friedland.) [00:18]
asciilifeform ^ described, among other very interesting things, the decline & fall of the guillotine [00:18]
asciilifeform even while it was still used, was hidden behind closed door for most of the 20th c [00:19]
asciilifeform because of the fundamental duplicity of totalitarian state [00:19]
asciilifeform (must keep two sets of books, can't show publicly how it works) [00:19]
asciilifeform just as 'civilized' countries today punish folks behind closed doors [00:20]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772419 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772420 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772421 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772429 [00:20]
assbot Logged on 27-07-2014 17:35:40; asciilifeform: the one common anthropological thread i see here is that most governments insist on some 'national' symbolic meaning in their chosen means of execution. e.g., the french guillotine across all five 'republics' [00:20]
assbot Logged on 27-07-2014 17:36:01; asciilifeform: when usa was a techno-power, electric chair was king [00:20]
assbot Logged on 27-07-2014 17:36:20; asciilifeform: banana republics, soviet world - shooting [00:20]
assbot Logged on 27-07-2014 17:39:58; asciilifeform: so from this it follows that the current ceremony (injection with not-quite-poisons in an elaborate pseudo-medical setting) also symbolizes something about modern usa, re: national character. [00:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00029193 = 1.2261 BTC [-] [00:21]
decimation re: electric chair < my understanding is that it was mainly a marketing gimmick for electricity [00:21]
nubbins` i once saw thomas edison electrocute an elephant [00:22]
nubbins` well, not in person [00:22]
asciilifeform famous film [00:22]
decimation asciilifeform: note that keeping the execution behind closed doors greatly diminishes its intended effect to encourage the others [00:22]
asciilifeform the books was actually about this [00:23]
asciilifeform specifically, how the purpose changed [00:23]
asciilifeform and wtf it even was originally. [00:23]
asciilifeform highly recommended. [00:23]
decimation thanks for the recommendation. [00:23]
nubbins` http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_%28elephant%29 [00:24]
nubbins` :o [00:24]
assbot Topsy (elephant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOIRip ) [00:24]
decimation asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: hidden execution in the US was that those who wanted to end all executions encouraged it so that they could then argue that it doesn't have a 'discouragement' effect on crime [00:24]
nubbins` what a bummer [00:25]
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decimation just like the same ones burden the death penalty with layers of bureaucracy and then claim that it's too unwieldy to use [00:25]
mircea_popescu !up ponyslaystation [00:26]
-assbot- You voiced ponyslaystation for 30 minutes. [00:26]
* assbot gives voice to ponyslaystation [00:26]
mircea_popescu no if you read the article, the 'startup' is actually a division of tucows, the domainame freeware site << you know twocows i actually like. [00:26]
mircea_popescu o.O [00:27]
mircea_popescu and obviously, the usg doesn't like it. how surprising. [00:27]
* decimation has fond memories of downloading warez from tucows back in the day [00:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95950 @ 0.00028191 = 27.0493 BTC [-] {2} [00:27]
asciilifeform aha [00:27]
asciilifeform it and simtel [00:27]
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mircea_popescu idea is that they 'have the choice to surrender to usg' and didn't make it << myeah. they gotta be supported. [00:28]
mircea_popescu generally, any friend of the usg is an enemy of the world. [00:28]
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decimation asciilifeform: did you get those little paper catalogs of shareware which you could order on diskettes? [00:28]
asciilifeform never got paper, no [00:28]
asciilifeform (where? lol) [00:28]
mircea_popescu i did, actually. [00:28]
mircea_popescu even got a diskette of fractal programs. [00:29]
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* mircea_popescu comes from a country where "warez" has no particular meaning. you mean software, right ? [00:31]
decimation yes, with the meaning shaded with the implication that the software is unlicensed [00:31]
decimation although in this case it was shareware generally [00:31]
mircea_popescu http://36.media.tumblr.com/2a63eaed64b2fba30ca3a958c905b813/tumblr_mw02jsxq8T1s9rg6lo1_1280.jpg << study. [00:33]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfd6bH ) [00:33]
decimation linked from ascii's youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQdDnbXXn20 < Wehrmacht soldaten describing their point of view, and pride [00:39]
assbot WW2 justified by former German soldiers - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfej2Q ) [00:39]
decimation forward to 2:57ff to see the old dude scold some chick about 'war crimes' [00:40]
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asciilifeform from guillotine thread: a: 'I want it, is it for sale?' [00:44]
asciilifeform b: 'Build your own, so you too can become a state. Then build a prison to house it, and start capturing people, accusing them of shit, and holding them for ransom. Print lots of worthless IOUs and start paying for stuff with them, and extorting money from your neighbors to pay you with your own IOUs every year a tax on their land, or you will imprison and guilotine them. Use your growing wealth to stockpile more and more we [00:44]
asciilifeform apons and back up your operation, because you're making more an more enemies, but that's okay, you have all the high tech weapons. Start passing laws to prohibit others from owning anything more than a rifle or shotgun, while you buy gunships and tanks and jets and cluster bombs. Hirer very intelligent people who are ready to sell out humanity in exchange for trinket amounts of wealth to fatten their own pockets. Setup c [00:44]
asciilifeform ourts and judges to pass laws to forbid everyone around you from killing, lying, enslaving or imprisoning people, and stealing, but make it all legal for you under different names. Congratulations, you have just founded a country,also known as a state! Go to war with other states, to get rid of surplus wealth and attempt to grab more land to tax more people, when you find an opportunity that they are weaker than you. Secret [00:44]
asciilifeform ly assasisnate foreign leaders to destablilize small countries around you, and run drug running operations to generate even more revenue for more black projects, and tell your people its for their own security. Waterboard and torture your enemies and call them terrorists.' [00:45]
asciilifeform (dropped here for the lulzrecord) [00:45]
decimation heh [00:46]
decimation asciilifeform: not to mention you gotta setup a bureacracy so the people can grovel before it for trinkets: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2015/02/28/massachusetts-bureaucracy-gets-1-in-13-households-to-come-in-and-beg/ [00:50]
assbot Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Massachusetts bureaucracy gets 1 in 13 households to come in and beg ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfh5oL ) [00:50]
mircea_popescu in mass' defense, it's really merely providing a very in demand service [00:54]
mircea_popescu 1 in 2 households are looking for something to beg and someplace to do it. [00:55]
decimation heh true [00:55]
mircea_popescu "And those workers are different from the ones who decide whether or not to give out a free" [00:55]
mircea_popescu why exactly are these idiots called "workers" ? [00:55]
decimation well, they get paid [00:55]
mircea_popescu people object to slave hard drives being called slave hard drives, in spite of the accuracy [00:55]
mircea_popescu nobody cares shitheads are called workers ? [00:56]
mircea_popescu you, if your paycheck comes from the governent, YOU ARE NOT A WORKER. [00:56]
mircea_popescu work is when you do something useful. you're a fricitoner not a fucking worker. [00:56]
decimation well, that net catches a good portion of the us when considered in its wide sense [00:57]
mircea_popescu i'da made the comment there, but apparently greenspun doesn't know how to comments. [00:57]
decimation as it is, only 58% of usians "work" http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm [00:58]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BfiSdm ) [00:58]
decimation almost 59%! thanks obama! [00:58]
mircea_popescu honestly i don't think this has ever been different. [00:59]
mircea_popescu in your classical "ancient tribe in the caves" about 2/3 of the tribe did something. [00:59]
decimation well, it excludes the quite legitimate work of raising children [00:59]
mircea_popescu what's different is a bunch of ideological spew clouding the issues. [00:59]
mircea_popescu decimation other than the genetics of intelligence, the children is another way i get conservatives enraged. [01:00]
mircea_popescu as far as i'm concerned, giving a mother a year off at childbirth is perfectly reasonable. [01:00]
decimation why wouldn't a conservative agree? [01:01]
mircea_popescu people go nuts. as if babies are required to come from the stork, and for free, because htey're wrapped up too tightly to consider fucking. [01:01]
mircea_popescu decimation FREE MONEY TO NIGGER WHORES!!!?!?!?!?! [01:01]
decimation well, there is the question of 'who pays' [01:01]
mircea_popescu at least that's what it usually reduces to. [01:01]
decimation but it certainly seems like society ought to consider paying for young families over old codgers [01:01]
mircea_popescu decimation imo the most defensible expense in the state budget. [01:01]
mircea_popescu way before "education" [01:01]
asciilifeform meat production? [01:02]
mircea_popescu i dun think there's anything that can be done in a whole decade of "education" that's as valuable as kid having mother at home first year. [01:02]
decimation there is something weird about the us, in that the grandparents often think that their responisibilities end after seeing the children off to college [01:03]
decimation instead of endowing the next generation [01:03]
mircea_popescu decimation generally ro families reproduce once grandparents go to pension. [01:03]
mircea_popescu EXACTLY the same thing, except state doesn't pay for mother's year off, pays for gramma's years off. [01:03]
decimation well, paying for young families has the further advantage of being a limited-time affair [01:04]
mircea_popescu it's not even paying for families per se. [01:04]
mircea_popescu it's just, children are a cost everyone seems to wish to externalize. [01:04]
mircea_popescu glwt... [01:04]
decimation yes, agreed [01:05]
decimation a few generations ago it was considered everyone's job (in the family tree) to assist with the young children [01:05]
mircea_popescu amusingly, the revolutionary french actually put it in the code that pregnant women may steal food off market displays. [01:05]
mircea_popescu but, in turkey, at the height of the syrian refugee crisis, i numerously observed various people selling food gifting items to pregnant syrian women. [01:06]
mircea_popescu the idea's widespread. [01:06]
decimation there is some of that in the us, in a fossilized way. sometimes pregnant women are given priority for parking, for instance [01:07]
mircea_popescu (put the husbands in the most visibly awkward position too - once that hand to chest gesture's done they can't refuse, but on the other hand... their wife's sexuality was just referenced by these half-satan pigdogs. was pretty lulzy to observe) [01:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57350 @ 0.00028252 = 16.2025 BTC [+] {2} [01:08]
mircea_popescu which doth mean that even across religious conflict, the pregnant woman trumps the imam. imagine that! [01:09]
decimation heh. no one can shrug off their own humanity [01:09]
mircea_popescu i'm not even sure that's what it is. [01:09]
mircea_popescu There are no limits to male hypocrisy in this matter. No doubt there are moments when man’s sexual immunities are made acutely humiliating to him. When the terrible moment of birth arrives, its supreme importance and its superhuman effort and peril, in which the father has no part, dwarf him into the meanest insignificance: he slinks out of the way of the humblest petticoat, happy if he be poor enough to be pushed o [01:10]
mircea_popescu ut of the house to outface his ignominy by drunken rejoicings. But when the crisis is over he takes his revenge, swaggering as the breadwinner, and speaking of Woman’s “sphere” with condescension, even with chivalry, as if the kitchen and the nursery were less important than the office in the city. When his swagger is exhausted he drivels into erotic poetry or sentimental uxoriousness; and the Tennysonian King Ar [01:10]
mircea_popescu thur posing at Guinevere becomes Don Quixote grovelling before Dulcinea. You must admit that here Nature beats Comedy out of the field: the wildest hominist or feminist farce is insipid after the most commonplace “slice of life.” [01:10]
mircea_popescu i am rather persuaded by shaw there. [01:10]
mircea_popescu quite out of the field. [01:10]
mircea_popescu the us equivalent, of course, being mammie to rhett butler : "theis ain't a man's job, buzz off." [01:11]
mircea_popescu http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind << fwiw, i am still not convinced that the electric neuron is not the correct approach. the problem is that it should be stateful. i am half tempted to model what happens if you run a grid of these with say 255 states per. [01:14]
decimation there was a time when the husband could appropriately wait outside to receive the new little one after the moment came [01:14]
assbot THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND | Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1BfmpIX ) [01:14]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061067 << lol he's such a gadfly this guy :D [01:16]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 23:15:14; jurov: lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself" [01:16]
thestringpuller anyone watching the friedcat story developing [01:16]
mircea_popescu jurov you ever considered doing stand-up comedy ? something in the stewart vein mebbe ? [01:16]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller sort-of. why / [01:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.0002912 = 2.781 BTC [+] [01:19]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061138 << well, something like that. "what do you mean by this nonsensical question you purport to be asking" [01:21]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 23:46:09; asciilifeform: the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question' [01:21]
mircea_popescu but that aside : you will note that if i make a bitwise copy of a running system on anothjer system, eiteher will continue independently. if i then set the second on fire, the first is unharmed. whether the 2nd "Thinks" that "it" = "the first" is harmed oir not is irrelevant. [01:22]
mircea_popescu that's the animism here, the naive proposition that harm upon the wax statuette will visit the subject. [01:23]
mircea_popescu which is lulzy. [01:23]
asciilifeform the lulz comes from operating using undefined thing [01:24]
asciilifeform as in a proof where divided by 0 [01:24]
mircea_popescu to me the lulz comes from the similarity with idiocy, in spite of all the pretense. [01:24]
mircea_popescu the same sort of thing as "well... french nobles had lice. just like the peasants. and died of tb" [01:25]
mircea_popescu "so then what is this nobility again ?" "oh, their blood was a differentcolor." "ic." [01:25]
mircea_popescu "rationalists" indistinguishable from flatearthists, except, perhaps, by the color of their guts ? sign me up. [01:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4531 @ 0.00028047 = 1.2708 BTC [-] [01:26]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061143 << except less is, of course, more. [01:27]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 23:51:31; Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying [01:27]
mircea_popescu you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead. [01:27]
mircea_popescu no one would dispute the true lenin is in the transhumanist facility at dark pink plaza right ? [01:28]
asciilifeform mega-l0lz [01:28]
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asciilifeform 'Ленин жил, Ленин жив, Ленин будет жить!' (TM) [01:28]
mircea_popescu ikr? [01:29]
nubbins` <+mircea_popescu> you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead. <<< oh ho ho ho, i like this [01:29]
mircea_popescu ;) [01:29]
nubbins` what an anomaly to be wiggling about!! [01:29]
mircea_popescu isn't it ? [01:30]
nubbins` christ, can't wait for it to stop [01:30]
mircea_popescu that's why you get sleep paralysis. but it doesn'ty hold. [01:30]
nubbins` get some fuckin rest [01:30]
mircea_popescu well... at least not at first. [01:30]
nubbins` ahh, that's rich [01:30]
decimation re: genetics of intelligence < the post makes a good point, in that there's nobody who can tell a story about how some genes 'cause' intelligence. But that doesn't really address the observation that when you give a test to ethnic groups A&B, the resulting distributions are different. [01:31]
asciilifeform and the twin studies - happened. [01:31]
mircea_popescu decimation why would you expect it addresses that ? [01:31]
mircea_popescu it also doesn't address this : http://36.media.tumblr.com/a3c8b86ae62f828e29f0cc2f7becb8c5/tumblr_mvfml07JnV1sgpxs6o1_1280.jpg [01:31]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfqz3x ) [01:31]
mircea_popescu among other things. [01:31]
asciilifeform !s stupidity heritable [01:31]
assbot 1 results for 'stupidity heritable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stupidity+heritable [01:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0l where this photo from ? [01:32]
nubbins` the singularity [01:32]
mircea_popescu oh, private genetics research lab. [01:32]
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mircea_popescu (there's this entire subculture of [mostly white] men that aim to raise other peopel's children) [01:32]
asciilifeform fetish ? [01:33]
mircea_popescu im not sure that's an adequate term. [01:33]
decimation cuckoldry? [01:33]
mircea_popescu the behaviour is not so much different from whatever, altruism. speech. etc. [01:33]
mircea_popescu decimation i suppose technically. [01:33]
mircea_popescu tho by now that's migrated closer to a personal relationship. [01:33]
mircea_popescu less dramatically, people adopt all the time. [01:34]
nubbins` aka the double cuckold [01:34]
decimation and always have [01:35]
mircea_popescu at any rate : expecting human behaviour to be addressed by genetics is a little like expecting food to be discussed by chemistry. [01:35]
asciilifeform ^ ahahaha there we have it [01:35]
mircea_popescu some attempts will be made, but srsly... whadda ya want. shit's hard and chemistry has other stuff to do. [01:35]
asciilifeform can still explain the behaviour of turing's apple with chemistry [01:35]
mircea_popescu for some definitions of explain. [01:35]
asciilifeform the most interesting fact about it - absolutely [01:36]
mircea_popescu that's the thing : any attempt to explain behaviour by genetics ends up bending the notion of "explain" the fuck out of place [01:36]
mircea_popescu this is damaging to the explainer. [01:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but maybe the apples made him gay ? [01:37]
asciilifeform thinking of the kcn apple [01:37]
mircea_popescu i know. [01:37]
mircea_popescu but wouldn't you agree that had the apples made him gay, THAT would be the most interesting thing about them ? [01:37]
asciilifeform sure, let's walk with that [01:38]
asciilifeform what do we get [01:38]
mircea_popescu we get that fuckall. [01:38]
decimation well, we have a warning to others [01:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52250 @ 0.00028943 = 15.1227 BTC [+] {2} [01:39]
nubbins` eat not thine apple [01:39]
nubbins` i developed an allergy to apple skins [01:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we have a hidden and unjustified jump here [01:39]
nubbins` sucks, i like apples ;/ [01:39]
asciilifeform -some- behaviour is demonstrably -heritable- [01:39]
asciilifeform not same as 'behaviour can be explained [in total] by genetics' [01:39]
nubbins` didn't they retroactively expunge turing's homosexuality conviction within the past couple years [01:39]
mircea_popescu well so then. [01:40]
mircea_popescu "to explain" normally means, "all of it". [01:40]
asciilifeform in that sense hardly anything has ever been explained. [01:41]
mircea_popescu once copulation explained pregnancy, that was it , you know ? [01:42]
mircea_popescu well... [01:42]
nubbins` took me til age 24 before it was explained that 1+1=2 [01:42]
nubbins` and even that... the axioms [01:42]
nubbins` only goes down so far [01:42]
asciilifeform nubbins` owns the complete r&w 'principia' ? [01:42]
nubbins` covered sections in various number theory courses [01:43]
decimation mircea_popescu: "pregnancy comes from copulation" is a fairly workable theory [01:44]
nubbins` worst rabbit hole re:math was one winter eve i found myself thoroughly intoxicated at a party i'd wandered across [01:44]
nubbins` turned out to be the 60th bday of this philosophy prof at local uni [01:45]
nubbins` left the house ~4 hours later w/ several tomes on the philosophy of mathematics [01:45]
mircea_popescu decimation quite a ways ahead of any genetic explanations for intelligence on tap [01:46]
mircea_popescu leaving aside the differential of quality between the definitions of pregnant and intelligent. [01:46]
asciilifeform of several key types of stupidity - as solid as any explaination in e.g., electronics [01:46]
nubbins` anyway, principia, smth like ~100 pages into volume ii before they finish the proof?! [01:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but the genetic explanation of stupidity is certainly not in dispute here. [01:47]
mircea_popescu what, down sindrome ? that's uncontroversial as it gets. [01:47]
mircea_popescu the other end of the scale tho... [01:47]
asciilifeform not even speaking of trisomies etc [01:47]
mircea_popescu note that my observation about where the gaussian's bound is not idle. [01:47]
mircea_popescu it connects to this. [01:47]
asciilifeform but of what in the english world is usually called 'shitflessness' etc [01:47]
asciilifeform *shiftlessness [01:47]
mircea_popescu not very visible, but yes, whole spittoon [01:47]
nubbins` i feel shiftlessness is much more a product of upbringing [01:49]
asciilifeform nubbins`: the twin studies -happened- [01:49]
asciilifeform can't magick them away [01:49]
mircea_popescu but he feels. [01:49]
asciilifeform and, notably, no one ever tried. [01:49]
nubbins` ^ strongly, even! [01:49]
mircea_popescu are you saying the whippets are no no2 ? [01:49]
asciilifeform l0l [01:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, re twin studies : they're great because best we got [01:50]
mircea_popescu not because word of god, so to speak. [01:50]
asciilifeform but state of the art, which has to be dealt with as such [01:50]
mircea_popescu no contest. [01:50]
asciilifeform and not as 'lala never heard of this, so must not be relevant' [01:50]
mircea_popescu but that is an argument to sink a competing theory with, [01:51]
mircea_popescu it does not work to sink skepticism. [01:51]
asciilifeform skepticism ought to happily bob about, it doesn't need to sink [01:51]
decimation of course not, but the skeptic is still informed [01:51]
mircea_popescu yeah, skepticism will never sink, and if it does, brainbox' flooded. [01:51]
mircea_popescu anyway, back to the issue : a plethora of persuasive arguments can be made starting with genetics and ending with behaviours. however, the most commonly encountered ones are neither persuasive [01:52]
mircea_popescu nor all that intelligent or informed. [01:52]
asciilifeform what do we do next, the 'commonly encountered' variety of physics? number theory? [01:53]
mircea_popescu and in particular the race -> intelligence one has, in my experience so far, about a thousand times more often worked to illuminate the idiocy of the proponent than say anything about its intended topic. [01:53]
mircea_popescu (and yes intelligence is, by and large, a human behaviour. it's not a fucking identity.) [01:54]
mircea_popescu same difference as between being a doctor and practicing medicine. [01:54]
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asciilifeform naggum had a nifty piece on this fine point [01:54]
asciilifeform but i've misplaced it [01:55]
mircea_popescu i like naggum's points. [01:55]
asciilifeform it won't run away. whoever wants, can find... [01:55]
mircea_popescu but to belabour the point : one of the principal reasons "measuring iq" as it were height is so ridiculous, is because nobody has yet had an off day for height. [01:56]
nubbins` all i'm arguing is that stupid people have kids, and their kids are given stupid food and provided with stupid stimulation and forced to interact mostly with their stupid parents and their stupid friends [01:57]
mircea_popescu im normally 6"2 but i woke with a headache and im only 4"10 [01:57]
decimation whatever the causality between 'genes' and 'intelligence' might be, the story is shrouded under layers of ignorance, and it is thus good to be humble on the subject [01:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: strength is better analogy than height [01:57]
nubbins` if you think genetic predisposition plays a bigger part than whether you're surrounded by idiocy in your formative years, well... [01:57]
asciilifeform very simple to have an 'off day' for strength [01:57]
mircea_popescu nubbins` that won't fucking do anything. ANYTHING. you are to be traced to lucy, the stupidest chimp that ever lived. [01:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but strength, you wiull notice, is VERY capped at the top. [01:58]
mircea_popescu we don't see that many people carrying skyscrapers around. [01:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16838 @ 0.0002912 = 4.9032 BTC [+] [01:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: greater dynamic range, sure [01:58]
mircea_popescu is it ? [01:58]
asciilifeform abundantly obvious [01:58]
decimation nubbins`: folks who have looked into the matter tend to disagree [01:58]
nubbins` decimation your logic has no place here [01:58]
asciilifeform incidentally, my (i don't exclusively claim it..) myelin impedance matching hypothesis - is testable. [01:58]
mircea_popescu it's not bad, tho perhaps not directly intelligence, [01:59]
mircea_popescu certainly related. [01:59]
decimation asciilifeform: reaction times? [01:59]
mircea_popescu iirc i said then, i mostly measure intelligence in person by derived units, such as reaction speeds. [01:59]
asciilifeform think analogy: picture a number of clocks [01:59]
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asciilifeform complicated mechanical clocks, all quite alike, but large enough to admit some sand [01:59]
asciilifeform and still run [01:59]
asciilifeform sorta. [01:59]
asciilifeform now vary how much sand in the gears. [01:59]
asciilifeform very loose analogy for the myelin matching thing [02:00]
decimation http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-decline-in-general-intelligence.html [02:00]
assbot Intelligence, Personality and Genius: The decline in general intelligence estimated from a meta-analysis of the slowing of simple reaction time ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfx5Hq ) [02:00]
asciilifeform incidentally the 'sand in the gears' hypothesis has a name [02:00]
asciilifeform 'big G' [02:00]
asciilifeform or rather 'general fitness factor' [02:00]
asciilifeform i forget who first described it [02:01]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061162 << ftr, this "qualified" does exactly nothing. i dunno who thinks themselves qualified in the topic. [02:01]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:02; nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer [02:01]
asciilifeform but it adds up to, overall, taller/healthier/more decisive/intelligent in whatever sense / stronger / etc [02:01]
asciilifeform because - less 'sand'. [02:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and blonder. [02:01]
asciilifeform l0l [02:01]
asciilifeform 'your mileage may vary' [02:02]
asciilifeform at any rate, it was a hypothesis, and i only know of any support for a restricted version of it [02:03]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061169 << you know this could make some pretty decent technomagic folklovestories ? [02:03]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:55; asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot [02:03]
mircea_popescu chick falls in love with geek, he takes her home and tells her to fuck any toy in the lab except this one, [02:03]
mircea_popescu so of course she does, so now there's a copy, [02:03]
* assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel [02:03]
mircea_popescu davai zdreanta desdemona etc. [02:03]
asciilifeform but it threatens to make some logical sense based on the tiny size of the 'phase space' of 'healthy/intelligent/strong' vs a world of possible organism, living and dead, which is none of these [02:03]
asciilifeform (recall the genetic algorithm discussions, and basic theory of mutation overall) [02:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform on my own guesswork it's a present but minor factor. [02:04]
mircea_popescu think about women, your head thinks about women much easier/better. general fitness factor : big tits, tall, clear eyes, wide hips, etc etc. [02:04]
mircea_popescu intelligence ? [02:04]
mircea_popescu veheheheeery vaguely related. [02:05]
decimation the intelligent one survived long enough to be presented [02:07]
mircea_popescu maybe. [02:08]
mircea_popescu in some circumstances lack of intelligence is a distinctive fitting advantage. [02:08]
decimation no doubt. 'curiousity killed the cat' [02:09]
asciilifeform of intelligence, or the inevitable cost ? [02:09]
asciilifeform (it costs just like cpu costs) [02:09]
mircea_popescu well... you can now divorce these ?! [02:09]
asciilifeform well no. but it's rather like the difference between 'die in car crash' and 'die of exhaust fumes in garage' [02:10]
asciilifeform both - of car. [02:10]
mircea_popescu if survival depends on, say, spending a week in a fox hole paying the fuck attention, "intelligence", especially the dreamy "creative" sort the us is so enamoured with, is the topmost liability. [02:10]
asciilifeform hell, in that situation, you'd want to be... an insect. mosquito can bite in milliseconds; us, with our heavy circuitry, cannot ever equal this - even if limbs were short enough [02:10]
mircea_popescu actually i watched mosquitoes bite, and the head movement really resembles a tank tower. [02:11]
mircea_popescu it takes 2 seconds or so. [02:11]
decimation unless you dream up a robot ninja to fight on your behalf [02:11]
mircea_popescu decimation take your real self away from me!111 [02:11]
asciilifeform perhaps i was thinking of a gnat, hm [02:11]
decimation hehe [02:11]
mircea_popescu well, scorpion, spider, etc. [02:11]
mircea_popescu plenty of good examples, no argument they move faster. [02:12]
asciilifeform the u.s. being collectively enamoured of anything that could be described as 'intelligence' is mega-news to me [02:12]
mircea_popescu ok. "sort of wankery they abusively call intelligence, cause they're dumb and ambitious" ? [02:12]
asciilifeform something like that. but now we've lost the specificity [02:12]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061201 << ironically, this would actually explain the modern age. [02:13]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 00:01:13; asciilifeform: re: teleporter: there were actually people who refused to travel on steam locomotives because the soul can't keep up and will get lost [02:13]
mircea_popescu i'd read a technopunk sf novel working on this exact premise. [02:13]
asciilifeform that would be a mega-novel, yes [02:13]
asciilifeform i've thought about it myself [02:13]
gabriel_laddel Which US is this where "intelligence" is discussed? [02:13]
mircea_popescu "and then everything failed because well... everyone was in a bureaucracy, because the souls were like loist behind" [02:13]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel reddit. [02:13]
asciilifeform perhaps somebody whose soul is still attached will write this book.. [02:14]
mircea_popescu if i were 20 years younger i'd take the sluts to whatever cons on this premise. [02:15]
mircea_popescu we'd be a new sort of furry : the soulless! better than emo! [02:15]
mircea_popescu it'd prolly make a fucking tsunami of pointless. [02:15]
mircea_popescu any 16yo boys with a harem reading this ? go fer it! [02:15]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061224 << wait, joos aren't allowed to touch women ?! [02:16]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:40; Adlai: probably to prevent physical contact with female flight attendants [02:16]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061226 << i agree, the first thing i'd want to ask my long lost twin is if they wanna fuck. [02:16]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:53; jurov: i'd fuck myself. we'd only have to resort to reading /dev/random about who goes first. [02:16]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061249 << enlighten me ? [02:19]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 00:07:42; nubbins`: examine the utter failure of logic by this man [02:19]
* decimation bids good evening [02:22]
decimation !down decimation [02:22]
* assbot has kicked decimation from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.) [02:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3662 @ 0.0002912 = 1.0664 BTC [+] [02:25]
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nubbins` mircea_popescu guy's protecting himself from the cemetery he's flying over [02:37]
nubbins` by... wrapping himself in clear plastic [02:37]
asciilifeform nubbins`: notice that only the 'graded for effort' hypothesis explains why the cellophane 'counts' but not the plastic in the fuselage [02:38]
asciilifeform (because, clearly, the latter was not put there by the hassid fella) [02:38]
nubbins` "i do my own plastic work" [02:38]
nubbins` it might as well be "i can fly over a cemetery as long as i'm playing tetris on a nintendo game boy" [02:39]
asciilifeform there is a little hassid enclave here where i live. they have the 'eruv' (ceremonial rope boundary) that establishes a zone where they can sorta do things on shabat [02:39]
asciilifeform the interesting thing, from where i stand is, 1) the rope 'counts' but the sidewalk it follows, or the line of trees - do not [02:39]
nubbins` seems taking once-practical advice to the point of absurdity [02:40]
asciilifeform 2) the rope is ill-maintained and often it is down or even in pieces [02:40]
asciilifeform and i have not been able to figure out why it is there on certain times but not others [02:40]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` so ? [02:44]
mats https://www.sba-research.org/wp-content/uploads/publications/qrinception.pdf "QR Inception: Barcode-in-Barcode Attacks" [02:44]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcXF8H ) [02:44]
mircea_popescu ahahah [02:45]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [02:46]
mircea_popescu nubbins` to begin, is your position that this doesn't work or that this doesn't make sense ? [02:46]
nubbins` my position is that wtf is a plastic bag doing that the fuselage isn't [02:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61993 @ 0.00029437 = 18.2489 BTC [+] {3} [02:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: provenance [02:47]
mircea_popescu nubbins` so you're arguing to ignorance ? [02:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: once you understand how their religion works, it sorta clicks [02:47]
asciilifeform it's not just a perverse kind of engineering, where it's the plastic that matters [02:47]
funkenstein_ QR code attacks <-- reminds me of "snowcrash" [02:47]
asciilifeform mats: packet-in-packet attack (see also, described in that neato phrack thing you linked to, i spent all day leafing through it, you wrecker you) or even frame-shift-mutation in genetics, etc [02:48]
asciilifeform or anybody who ever jumped in the middle of x86 instruction [02:49]
mats ya. [02:49]
mats reminds me a bit about goodspeed's zigbee hax [02:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually that was the lulz of all time, "malware detectors". except they didn't detect stuff half-register shifted did they. [02:49]
mats https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/woot11/tech/final_files/Goodspeed.pdf [02:50]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcYRZx ) [02:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 1001 variations on that theme [02:50]
asciilifeform !s polymorphic [02:50]
assbot 2 results for 'polymorphic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=polymorphic [02:50]
mircea_popescu "oh, ffcd 21aa blabla ? you mean cd31 aaetc ?" [02:51]
asciilifeform aha. [02:51]
mircea_popescu "i dunno, never seen ffcd or 21aa in malware b4!!1" [02:51]
asciilifeform and folks still use signature-based 'detection' [02:51]
mircea_popescu myeah. because hey, enumerate badness. [02:51]
asciilifeform because 'whaddayamean i'm to be hanged for buying ibm' [02:52]
asciilifeform the funny part is that crapware artists, by and large, oblige [02:52]
asciilifeform and continue to bake idiocies readily detectable this way and not polymorphic one bit [02:52]
asciilifeform with 500kB of visual stoodio crud [02:52]
mircea_popescu the caught ones, at any rate. [02:53]
asciilifeform the intelligence of the hunter and the deer are, it seems, linked. [02:53]
asciilifeform neither finds it worthwhile to rocket far away from the other [02:53]
mircea_popescu but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/793d96d71ffd561915f8c9c49f321e8d/tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg [02:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcZCBZ ) [02:53]
asciilifeform (typically0 [02:53]
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mircea_popescu !up mogreen [02:54]
-assbot- You voiced mogreen for 30 minutes. [02:54]
* assbot gives voice to mogreen [02:54]
mats http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/03/20/260513/operation-to-retake-tikrit-from.html [02:56]
assbot ISTANBUL: Operation to retake Tikrit from Islamic State stalled by heavy casualties, discord | Iraq | McClatchy DC ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcZXoe ) [02:56]
mats ha. called it. [02:56]
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mircea_popescu lol. [02:56]
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mircea_popescu check itr out, b-a outintels dod. [02:57]
asciilifeform can anyone identify the weapon in the photo? looks like recoillessrifle - but which. [02:57]
mircea_popescu alf will, true to form, magick this success away. [02:57]
asciilifeform l0l success is when they're here [02:57]
mircea_popescu no. they made their prediction, we made ours. [02:58]
mircea_popescu they lost. [02:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44150 @ 0.00029637 = 13.0847 BTC [+] {2} [02:58]
asciilifeform wai they made a prediction ? [02:58]
* asciilifeform behind the times [02:58]
mircea_popescu well they did send the fucking thing eh ? [02:58]
asciilifeform does this necessarily imply a prediction ? [02:58]
mircea_popescu yes. [02:58]
asciilifeform perhaps usg sent the cannon fodder to die [02:58]
mircea_popescu nevertheless. [02:58]
mats looks like a Carl Gustav [02:59]
mircea_popescu maybe she cheated on you because she loves you. [02:59]
mircea_popescu she took the cock, she took the chances. [02:59]
asciilifeform mats: that one's shorter, no ? [02:59]
mats you're right [02:59]
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asciilifeform found it, 'spg9' [03:00]
asciilifeform (СПГ-9) [03:01]
mats http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fighting-isis-in-iraq-how-british-soldiers-and-other-european-troops-are-helping-train-the-peshmerga-10096952.html << based on this, i thought it may be a folgore [03:02]
assbot Fighting Isis in Iraq: How British soldiers and other European troops are helping train the Peshmerga - Middle East - World - The Independent [03:02]
mats a sign of sleep deprivation. night [03:03]
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nubbins` k, nite [03:07]
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asciilifeform incidentally, any serious amateur historian of political engineering skullduggery will enjoy an account of the life and death of the recoilless rifle in '30s ussr. [03:13]
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asciilifeform (built in vast numbers, apparently all maldesigned, head engineer goes from hero - at one point, monopolizer of virtually all cannon factories - to zero - shot in the head - within 7 years) [03:14]
asciilifeform not one recoilless cannon was fired, afaik, by ussr in ww2. [03:14]
asciilifeform all melted down. [03:14]
asciilifeform it is worth noting what precisely kurchevsky (the engineer) did. [03:15]
asciilifeform went with 'conversative' design where he took ordinary cannon of whatever kind, and sawed off the breech, replacing with funnel. [03:15]
asciilifeform so kept heavy barrel [03:16]
asciilifeform and retained the unwieldy bulk [03:16]
asciilifeform (no modern recoillness cannon works this way) [03:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28350 @ 0.00029411 = 8.338 BTC [-] {2} [03:49]
mircea_popescu more interesting is, why did he get away with it for long enough to become a prolbem [03:50]
mircea_popescu i guess i wouldn't make a very palatable politburo member. [03:50]
mircea_popescu but in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/acf990fa23a1a30bad4ca6c6e21af8a6/tumblr_ndu41h5Ot61ttr86so1_500.gif [03:50]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ATY4ch ) [03:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12215 @ 0.00029808 = 3.641 BTC [+] [04:01]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [10:30]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [10:30]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [10:30]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [10:30]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [10:31]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060745 << for the record, this user count bs... see stuff like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-03-2015#1056265 [10:39]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 21:10:47; felipelalli: mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored? [10:39]
assbot Logged on 18-03-2015 05:09:03; mircea_popescu: " Content preview: Dear Alare Kool, thank you for registering at Bitstamp exchange service! At this point you have just contributed a great deal to future of decentralized monetary market." [10:39]
mircea_popescu they have no users. just because the whatsapp scam was pushed by fb on the grounds of "users" (by the way, did the fantabulous "growth rate" continue after the acquisition ?) does not mean that the same sort of fraud will either work again in the future or is in itself any sort of value. [10:39]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [10:40]
nubbins` alare kool... from bangladesh?!!? [10:40]
mircea_popescu i have nfi. [10:40]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060780 << drunk anger does that. drink more water [10:42]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 21:34:56; BingoBoingo: I have the most intense hangover [10:42]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060802 << layflat for one volume would run you about 1200ish [10:43]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 21:40:35; ascii_field: not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance [10:43]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060821 << haha win. [10:44]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 21:44:19; danielpbarron: basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want [10:44]
nubbins` incidentally, here's a layflat binding [10:46]
kakobrekla http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/18/want_to_dodge_nsa_supply_chain_taps_ask_cisco_for_a_dead_drop/ [10:46]
nubbins` http://www.halstan.co.uk/news/images/20130219-Binding-Otabind.jpg [10:46]
assbot Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1DI9V3o ) [10:46]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DI9W7c ) [10:46]
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mircea_popescu !up Tetra113 [10:47]
-assbot- You voiced Tetra113 for 30 minutes. [10:47]
* assbot gives voice to Tetra113 [10:47]
nubbins` as you can see, the biggest thing is to not adhere the spine of the book block [10:47]
nubbins` downside is that the book block is now much less securely held in place [10:48]
nubbins` one cm-thick strip of glue on each outer page [10:49]
Tetra113 good afternoon [10:49]
nubbins` here's another lay-flat: http://www.techscribe.co.uk/techw/images/layflat.jpg [10:49]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzsxNV ) [10:49]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060850 << obligatory http://www.amosnews.ro/arhiva/joc-erotic-terminat-tragic-17-11-2005 [10:49]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 21:48:38; ascii_field: in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba [10:49]
assbot Joc erotic terminat tragic ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzsxO5 ) [10:49]
nubbins` "after a colleague introduced them to the anus compressor hose" [10:50]
nubbins` dat machine translate [10:50]
mircea_popescu nubbins` 50 yo blue collar woman went after shift with coworkers, had compressed air hose stuck up ass. [10:50]
mircea_popescu died. [10:50]
Tetra113 i was spending alot of time reading about bitcoin shares/stocks [10:50]
kakobrekla !s french block [10:50]
assbot 0 results for 'french block' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=french+block [10:50]
nubbins` i wonder had she ever seen an air compressor in use before? [10:50]
kakobrekla https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150318/06273130352/french-government-starts-blocking-websites-with-views-govt-doesnt-like.shtml [10:50]
mircea_popescu Tetra113 where ? [10:50]
assbot French Government Starts Blocking Websites With Views The Gov't Doesn't Like | Techdirt ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzsAt6 ) [10:50]
mircea_popescu nubbins` well it was her place of work eh. [10:51]
nubbins` specifically, had she ever seen the release valve opened on a full one? [10:51]
Tetra113 mircea_popescu, mostly sites that appear written by you lol [10:51]
mircea_popescu lol [10:51]
Tetra113 but anyway [10:51]
nubbins` if so, why in the world did she think her ass was a good place for that to happen? [10:51]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i don't get it, is the french govt running an isp ?! [10:51]
nubbins` they're apparently running all of them 8) [10:51]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i dunno man, to me it's the crowning achievement of a particular sort of technopunk, which is what 50 years of soviet industry really is. [10:52]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you know just like who ? just like putin, except not the real one, the factitious version that "is holding country back" jurov was talking about. [10:52]
kakobrekla idk imma guess they just change the native dns and using an alternative one fixes this [10:52]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla used to work in china. for the first coupla years. [10:52]
nubbins` given that more people are familiar with changing DNS servers as a result of wanting to watch american netflix, you'll see the turnaround on these things get shorter [10:53]
nubbins` (you'd be amazed how many people who don't know what DNS stands for know what it does these days) [10:54]
danielpbarron height=290070 vs height=214008 [10:55]
Tetra113 mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares? [10:55]
mircea_popescu what's that one trying to achieve ? [10:56]
Tetra113 profit? [10:56]
Tetra113 hehe [10:56]
mircea_popescu nubbins` noit that amazed, history of internet. [10:56]
nubbins` guess so hey [10:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00027537 = 17.2657 BTC [-] {2} [10:57]
mircea_popescu you'd be amazed how many monkeys click the blue e, too. [10:57]
nubbins` soon it won't be blue or an e! [10:57]
mircea_popescu the monkeys ain't going anywhere. [10:57]
nubbins` nope [10:58]
nubbins` meantime, if anyone happens to have come across a guide to Smyth Sewing (re: bookbinding), would be forever in your debt [10:59]
mircea_popescu i wonder idly if anyone even realises that the turing machine space has by now been explored MUCH more in depth than the human genetic space, for instance. [10:59]
nubbins` remarkably hard to find solid info on [10:59]
mircea_popescu ie, we've built a much larger % of the computers that could be than there's been people alive as a % of the people that could be. [10:59]
nubbins` i'd imagine so [11:00]
mircea_popescu nubbins` https://vimeo.com/42600794 ? [11:01]
assbot Process: Smyth Sewn Book Binding on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIbrCD ) [11:01]
nubbins` ugh [11:01]
chetty mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?// bitcoin company??????????? [11:02]
nubbins` have seen that video [11:02]
nubbins` shows nothing [11:02]
mircea_popescu well that's all i had :D [11:02]
mircea_popescu "In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because [11:03]
mircea_popescu there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular security hole [11:03]
mircea_popescu should be glorified or cared about as being any more "special" than a [11:03]
mircea_popescu random spectacular crash due to bad locking." [11:03]
mircea_popescu ahh, the sweet innocence of presnowden. [11:03]
nubbins` on the surface, it looks like a plain kettle-stitch binding, with the addition of those stress strips [11:04]
Tetra113 chetty, yes obviously there has to be some company generating the value?? [11:04]
mircea_popescu the crash is only important if it can be used to poison the stack. otherwise... it's just annoying. [11:04]
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mircea_popescu Tetra113 so then find them and buy chunks. [11:04]
nubbins` Tetra113 ^ [11:04]
nubbins` generally, one gets in on shares by buying them [11:05]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060883 << i thought it was hotels. [11:06]
assbot Logged on 20-03-2015 22:02:49; danielpbarron: one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store [11:06]
Tetra113 so nubbins` where did you buy them? [11:07]
nubbins` Tetra113 what is "them"? [11:07]
Tetra113 shares? [11:07]
nubbins` shares of what? [11:08]
nubbins` microsoft? cisco? [11:08]
nubbins` figure out your question in full before you start asking it, maybe [11:10]
mircea_popescu Tetra113 seriously, this isn't etrade in a different color scheme. [11:10]
mircea_popescu etrade only exists because that model's practically dead. [11:10]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [11:11]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062072 << well maybe one day you run into a people. it's not impossible, even in tasmania! [11:11]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 07:35:50; cazalla: mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen. <<< pete_dushenski, PeterL might be interested, personally i think while nubbins` would do a great job, it's something i would look at once, put in cupboard and forget about [11:11]
mircea_popescu !s tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg [11:12]
assbot 0 results for 'tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg [11:12]
danielpbarron i was planning on handing them out at porcfest as i attempt to interview people [11:12]
mircea_popescu lies ben_vulpes :D [11:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34398 @ 0.00027468 = 9.4484 BTC [-] {2} [11:12]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron cool plan. [11:12]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062107 << moving eh ? all the better. [11:14]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 12:59:54; mats: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zqrqe/update_on_my_foia_request_for_the_first_us/ >> "Pursuant to 28 C.F.R. § 16.8(d) and (f) , we initiated business submitter notification procedures.to provide the winning bidder (Tim Draper) an opportunity to object to disclosure of the purchase price. Mr. Draper submitted written objections to disclosure. " [11:14]
danielpbarron http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/ << is this a qntra article? [11:15]
assbot Withdrawals halted as stolen evolution coins make their way to BTC-e : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1DId0jX ) [11:15]
mircea_popescu may be yeah. [11:16]
mircea_popescu doesn't seem a terribly legit reason to stop withdrawals, who knows if they're piggybacking on it to excuse their own failure. [11:17]
danielpbarron it's a horrible reason to stop withdrawals [11:17]
danielpbarron and the only thing it hurts is themselves [11:18]
mircea_popescu so go for it. [11:18]
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* assbot removes voice from Tetra113 [11:18]
mircea_popescu in any case this "we attack bitcoin fungibility and expect to remain in business" angle has to be dispelled. [11:18]
mircea_popescu no one ever will survive trying to make one bitcoin unequal to another bitcoin. [11:19]
mircea_popescu this is a capital offense. mass arson, rape and murder is a tea party by comparison. [11:19]
nubbins` i wonder will they halt withdrawals when draper's stolen SR bitcoins start moving to exchanges? [11:20]
nubbins` by my count, guy's got a hundred bucks belonging to me [11:20]
mircea_popescu lol [11:20]
nubbins` actually, that'd be an interesting trace. [11:21]
mircea_popescu but this is exactly it, usg trying to insert itself into the process by "blessing bitcoins" [11:21]
nubbins` ^ [11:21]
mircea_popescu much like you know, "you can'tr fuck this woman until this old man has sprinkled water on her" [11:21]
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mircea_popescu "orly ? " [11:21]
nubbins` you can't be in charge until you fill out this paperwork! [11:21]
mircea_popescu "how about you fill in the paperwork while i keep on being in charge." [11:21]
nubbins` heh [11:22]
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danielpbarron Update: BTC-e admins have reached out to Coin Fire to state that withdrawals have been re-enabled and that they have no further comments regarding the situation moving forward regarding this or any other security issue. [11:23]
danielpbarron is it still an article if they tapped out? [11:23]
mircea_popescu only if you absolutely want to. [11:23]
mircea_popescu "btc-e briefly stupid this morning", i guess. [11:23]
mircea_popescu it wouldn't necessartily be much more than editorializing, up to cazalla if he wants more of that or more news to balance things out. [11:24]
danielpbarron the story might be all the FEDs that swarm to reddit saying things like "see bitcoin isn't anonymous you better just use dollars!" [11:25]
mircea_popescu this is not terribly factual. [11:26]
mircea_popescu not every poltroonish german's a gestapo agent, not every poltroonish soviet's a kgb agent and not every reddit idjit's working for teh soup. [11:27]
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nubbins` anyone happen to have any of the btc addresses used for the first sr auction? [11:27]
mircea_popescu 1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX ? [11:28]
mircea_popescu going to 1Ez69SnzzmePmZX3WpEzMKTrcBF2gpNQ55, never spent. [11:29]
mircea_popescu since w/e, 9 months ago. [11:30]
funkenstein_ btc-e grabs some easy publicity perhaps [11:30]
mircea_popescu sort-of like putting cockroaches in your pizza for easy publicity. [11:30]
funkenstein_ so no bitcoin numismatics then? 2 BTC for my coin which was mined in 2010? [11:31]
danielpbarron how does that even work? you sell the private key? [11:31]
mircea_popescu nubbins` is the local numismatist [11:31]
nubbins` ^ [11:32]
funkenstein_ no i just transfer it as usual [11:32]
nubbins` i'm not sure that's the word you're looking for [11:32]
danielpbarron then you'd destroy all those coin-days which i thought was the thing you were trying to sell [11:33]
nubbins` pedigree coins [11:33]
funkenstein_ not coin days but mining origin [11:34]
mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/087PNN7 << best story ever, 10/10 would hire indian excel expert to literaturate again. [11:34]
assbot dpaste: 087PNN7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIeYAC ) [11:34]
nubbins` funkenstein_ no better than fresh-minted coins? [11:35]
funkenstein_ maybe you'd rather pay more for fresh minted coins, i hear some people prefer them [11:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00027742 = 17.4497 BTC [+] {2} [11:36]
funkenstein_ based on hash rental rates [11:37]
mircea_popescu http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind << you know this is easily the most disjointed, ridiculous and overall pointless piece of crap. "out of whack" three times ? the whole thing's an exercise in content-free derpage. [11:37]
assbot THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND | Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIfi2v ) [11:37]
funkenstein_ mircea_popescu, i thought it was interesting, but i guess not enough to finish it [11:38]
mircea_popescu there's some reasonable if banal shit floating around in a sea of very annoying nonsense. wtf is "out of whack" even supposed to mean, and since when is an ipad a better model of computing than a desktop. [11:40]
mircea_popescu but anyway, whatevs. [11:40]
funkenstein_ lol sounds about right [11:40]
funkenstein_ We're beginning to come to grips with the idea that your brain is not this well-organized hierarchical control system where everything is in order, a very dramatic vision of bureaucracy. <-- i liked that part [11:40]
mircea_popescu yes, obviously, people working on computational theories of human intelligence are basically correct and broadly irrelevant, yes people who were working on this 30 years ago are too stupiud to follow it, because hey, they didn't grow up with a computer, like i did, and yes culture consists of a lot of fleas and relatively little treasures. [11:41]
mircea_popescu and yes the brain's not a leviathan. nothing is. that only exists as a first line of fantasy, no place ever worked like that except in the bookish literotica of state-wankers. [11:42]
nubbins` yeah tim draper owes me at least a few bucks [11:42]
mircea_popescu about as sensible as the "paradise" of xtians, or ragnarok or w/e. [11:42]
funkenstein_ some testing notes for mod6 http://dpaste.com/1EP63W5 [11:44]
assbot dpaste: 1EP63W5: release notes, by funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIg1R9 ) [11:44]
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funkenstein_ and some bloggage fors ya http://frass.woodcoin.org/?p=39 [11:54]
assbot The Dollar Market and a Game Theory Example | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1IaOruB ) [11:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00027609 = 6.4053 BTC [-] [11:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22973 @ 0.0002759 = 6.3383 BTC [-] {2} [11:57]
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[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1131/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,907. [12:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51450 @ 0.00027456 = 14.1261 BTC [-] {2} [12:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00028 = 7.784 BTC [+] {3} [12:24]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [12:26]
nubbins` "This second pillar of Legion Theory might appear to be an unnecessary complication to our model. Dare we say, an “intellectual wank”. " [12:26]
nubbins` i like these guys [12:26]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell funkenstein_ could that thing stop being disqus [12:29]
mircea_popescu ;;google "Legion Theory" [12:29]
gribble The operation succeeded. [12:30]
gribble Legion Theory - Theory & Psychology - Sage Publications: ; Legion Theory 1 Legion Theory: A meta-psychology Mark L ...: ; Legion Theory: [12:30]
mircea_popescu heh mk. [12:30]
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thestringpuller lol slush adds css to site everyone is like "this is best site ever" [13:03]
thestringpuller smoke and mirrors make the derps go oooh and ahh [13:04]
fluffypony OMG I MUST SWITCH [13:04]
fluffypony CSS [13:04]
fluffypony JS [13:04]
fluffypony BEST [13:04]
fluffypony EVER [13:04]
thestringpuller ^- pretty good impression fluffypony [13:06]
fluffypony I try [13:06]
fluffypony my redditard is a little rusty [13:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9458 @ 0.00028129 = 2.6604 BTC [+] [13:07]
Adlai dogecoin rallied after they added css3 moon rocket upvote animations [13:17]
fluffypony so this is good for bitcoin? [13:18]
Adlai the next difficulty adjustment is critical [13:18]
thestringpuller http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/ [13:19]
fluffypony lol Adlai [13:19]
danielpbarron thestringpuller, they resumed withdrawls [13:20]
danielpbarron someone should tell the exit scammers about bitbit as an option for mixing [13:24]
Adlai how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site [13:25]
danielpbarron yeah but you can't see it on the block chain [13:28]
mats there are private bets [13:35]
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nubbins` so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up to bitcoind itself [13:37]
nubbins` at which point incompatibilities in ld crop up and grind the thing to a halt [13:37]
kakobrekla private bets are public, just need a password to request a deposit address [13:37]
kakobrekla also, there are none. [13:37]
kakobrekla i dont recall if there ever was an approved one [13:38]
nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=813233.msg10841000#msg10841000 [13:38]
assbot Casascius 10BTC Silver Round /w Gold B ... ( http://bit.ly/1BikwLq ) [13:38]
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mircea_popescu how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site << not how that works. [13:50]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla i dun recall one either. [13:51]
mircea_popescu not sure why we put it in, but i think it was the usual "customer request" stuff [13:51]
Adlai let's say i've identified a certain address A as coins that are "not welcome here". i see it move coin to address B, so i sniff around and notice that B is a deposit address on bitbet, with winnings going to C. i add C to the list of unwelcome money. [13:53]
* Adlai is equally amused from "lalala taint doesn't exist" and "lalala bitcoin doesn't exist" [13:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-] [13:55]
mircea_popescu you really should read the logs, this was discussed ad nauseam. [13:55]
mircea_popescu address A with your "taint" may lose to address B. what now ? [13:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-] [13:56]
mircea_popescu it's not a matter of "lalala taint doesn't exit". taint exists exactly as much and exactly for the reasons god "exists" [13:56]
Adlai then the idiot using a betting site as a tumbler, got what they deserved [13:56]
mircea_popescu some idiots can't cope otherwise. [13:56]
mircea_popescu Adlai didja eat dumb this morning ? i put 100 btc on one side, of your taint, and 100 btc on the other side, you don't know about. if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track. [13:57]
* Adlai sighs [13:58]
mircea_popescu but really, the notion of taint is only recurring because people are stupid, and do not wish to think. otherwise, taint is meaningless. [13:58]
Adlai taint in as meaningful as the person you're trying to do business with thinks it is [13:59]
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Adlai but whether or not it's meaningful to a specific incident, it still exists [14:00]
mircea_popescu it exists to the degree the madonna-whore exists. [14:00]
mircea_popescu yes, some idiots have trouble with reality, replace it with neurosis. this to the detriment of them and anyone trusting them. [14:01]
mircea_popescu like any other stereotype, like the nigger thief/rapist, the dumb woman, the jew cooking christian children etc, it "exists" in the minds of the stupid, [14:01]
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mircea_popescu and it recurs because stupid is really a very narrow space. [14:01]
Adlai no. you're confusing between value in the minds of people holding a bill, and fingerprints on its surface. one exists in the mind, the other is evidence. it could be misleading evidence, but it is there. [14:03]
mircea_popescu taint != fingerprints. [14:03]
mircea_popescu in that fingerprints are on the bill, and taint is in the mind, wholly imagined. [14:04]
Adlai do we agree that utxos exist? [14:05]
mircea_popescu yes. [14:05]
Adlai ok, what i'm calling "taint" is the tree constructed by recursively collecting the inputs that led in to each utxo [14:07]
Adlai a better word for this could be "signing history", but whatever it is, it exists. you can ask what the history of any utxo is, and you get a graph of signatures [14:07]
Adlai blockchain.info pander to idiots by misrepresenting this as taint(address1,address2) = percentage [14:08]
Adlai it's much more complicated than a single number, same as you can't scalarize "trust" - but taint as i've defined it exists, in the blockchain - outside of the mind. [14:09]
mircea_popescu no, what you're calling taint is a particularly dumb implementation of "smart contracts", ie, overloading txn with "meaning" that's really in your own head. see also http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058300 [14:09]
assbot Logged on 19-03-2015 21:32:58; fluffypony: "release the money to mircea_popescu if I send the money to mircea_popescu" is about the sum total of it [14:09]
Adlai uh what? [14:10]
Adlai this has nothing to do with it [14:10]
mircea_popescu uniquely among dumb implementation of "smart contracts", this doesn't even involve the actual parties to the txn, but third parties. [14:10]
mircea_popescu you wish. it's exactly what it is. [14:10]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-02-2015#1018795 [14:11]
assbot Logged on 14-02-2015 18:06:59; mircea_popescu: lol kay. [14:11]
mircea_popescu the "signing history" is entirely meaningless. the TOTAL information it conveys is already conveyed, and spent. there is NO MORE in there, at all, nothing whatsoever. [14:11]
Adlai lalala! [14:12]
mircea_popescu hey, what can i tell you. [14:12]
Adlai "i understand what you're saying and insist on attacking a strawman" [14:13]
nubbins` Adlai [14:13]
Adlai nubbins` [14:13]
mircea_popescu i understand what you are saying, and i also understand why it's stupid. you have the option to pretend like you don't see it, or not. nothing i can do thar. [14:13]
nubbins` perhaps i can explain this succinctly, as i had this same convo some time ago [14:13]
nubbins` let's use an example [14:13]
nubbins` https://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/ [14:13]
assbot BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYAYXH ) [14:13]
nubbins` examine the first "no" bet, which won 0.05280995 btc [14:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.0002726 = 2.7533 BTC [-] {2} [14:14]
nubbins` input address is 16u2vFY3w6j18KZ6WxtiJpGeZfXnyyK7NM [14:14]
nubbins` payout address is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm [14:14]
nubbins` here's the link between the two: [14:14]
nubbins` https://bitiodine.net/a2a/16u2vFY3w6j18KZ6WxtiJpGeZfXnyyK7NM/1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm [14:14]
assbot BitIodine - Find paths ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYBchq ) [14:14]
Adlai no, here's the link: https://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/#b2 [14:15]
assbot BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYBhlj ) [14:15]
nubbins` so now you're left with... some random betting website that says the two addresses are owned by the same entity, with no further evidence to back it up [14:15]
nubbins` that's not a link [14:15]
nubbins` i could just create a static copy of bitbet w/ a web crawler and create all the "links" i want [14:16]
nubbins` does that mean they exist? [14:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00027237 = 2.5194 BTC [-] [14:16]
mircea_popescu i very much doubt that after he ignored the "if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track." bit he's in a position to grok this one, but hey. [14:16]
* mircea_popescu watches curiously. [14:16]
nubbins` there's nothing on the blockchain to link the two addresses [14:16]
nubbins` and if there's nothing on the blockchain to link them [14:16]
nubbins` then you're just trusting the word of some guy who runs a website. [14:17]
Adlai there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew" [14:17]
mircea_popescu can we move to "celestial teapot" ? [14:17]
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nubbins` okay [14:17]
mircea_popescu (pls do not lalala-ignore my celestial teapot, it triggers me) [14:17]
nubbins` so let's go back to unwelcome money [14:18]
mircea_popescu teapot money ? [14:18]
nubbins` why is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm unwelcome money? because it's listed as an output address on http://bitbet.us? [14:18]
assbot BitBet ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9Uteb ) [14:18]
trinque RagnarDanneskjol | trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. << no problemo; deedbot- works for me [14:19]
mircea_popescu fucking hell, "unwelcome money" is about as self-consistent as "human dignity" or "representative democracy" [14:19]
Adlai the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus [14:19]
nubbins` groan [14:19]
Adlai the "..." *defense [14:19]
Adlai ie, the information is there, should somebody wish to act on it [14:19]
nubbins` so then why don't we just ask mp to create a dummy bet page, and list tim draper's stash as the output? [14:20]
nubbins` his coins will be ruined [14:20]
nubbins` right? [14:20]
mircea_popescu Adlai are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs ? [14:20]
Adlai not if he doesn't touch the winnings [14:20]
nubbins` now you're talking about electric anthills [14:20]
mircea_popescu cause i am really not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death. [14:20]
Adlai electric anthill = rule of thugs [14:20]
nubbins` WHAT WINNINGS? [14:21]
mircea_popescu so then why is ANY oif it relevant lol. [14:21]
nubbins` https://blockchain.info/address/1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm [14:21]
assbot Bitcoin Address 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9UT4i ) [14:21]
nubbins` show me where the "winnings" were transferred [14:21]
mircea_popescu obviously whatever random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims and pretend like they hold water. so what of it ? [14:21]
nubbins` all i see is some random coin moving around [14:21]
mircea_popescu this isn't something to be approached rationally. [14:21]
Adlai if you know that an enemy is profiling you, one approach is simply to evade the profile [14:22]
nubbins` Adlai a random website taking two random unlinked transactions and placing them side-by-side on a random page does not constitute even the /scent/ of proof [14:22]
mircea_popescu Adlai never interrupt the enemy while he's making a mistake. [14:23]
nubbins` i don't know how simpler to put it [14:23]
mircea_popescu let 'em "profile" until they fall over. [14:23]
mircea_popescu i guess it's "good for the economy". heck, they're tracking "uniques", for all the good that did anyone. we still have to see the extra ounce of soap or w/e that was sold because of it, but hey. [14:24]
nubbins` this is like pasting up a leaflet that says "main street intersects 3rd avenue" and then arguing that's the intersection you lost your wallet, even though the map says impossible [14:24]
nubbins` because main and 3rd run parallel [14:24]
Adlai one approach to combating terrorism is to refuse to be terrorized, on a societal level. another, on an individual level, is not to "ask for it". these are not mutually exclusive. [14:24]
nubbins` "but the leaflet says this intersection exists, so we must investigate the crime" [14:25]
nubbins` geez, where'd the counter-argument go [14:26]
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mircea_popescu Adlai wait, what ? [14:26]
mircea_popescu what you're describing is the exact avenue to encourage terrorism. [14:27]
trinque look at how she was dressed; the slut was asking for it -> niqab [14:27]
nubbins` hm [14:28]
nubbins` is the intersection of these two approaches to STFU and take whatever happens? [14:28]
nubbins` do you measure your other-cheek-turning in x1000 rpm or what? [14:28]
Adlai in the case of 'taint', it's: treat bitcoin as fungible, but don't make life easier for those who don't [14:29]
nubbins` <+Adlai> there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew" [14:29]
nubbins` try again [14:29]
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nubbins` protip: if you can't state your position... [14:29]
* Adlai used that word intentionally [14:29]
mircea_popescu im pretty sure no-ones making life easier for idiots, here. [14:29]
mircea_popescu hence the bitbet model, hence the reusing of addresses etc etc, numerous specific measures to hinder the little solace idiots a la power rangers etc are trying to give the "defungibilize bitcoin" party. [14:30]
nubbins` my being here is probably making life harder for at least a handful of people [14:30]
mircea_popescu not that any of these are critical, but yes, some hopes are fun to ruin. [14:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80218 @ 0.00027598 = 22.1386 BTC [+] {2} [14:32]
nubbins` occasionally i burn fun-sized blocks of btc just to make things a bit more tangly [14:32]
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asciilifeform the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus << aha. this was also my objection, if anyone recalls. [14:38]
asciilifeform list tim draper's stash as the output? his coins will be ruined << no, they won't. because he's aryan. [14:38]
asciilifeform are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs << thugs [14:38]
asciilifeform not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death << what exterminator do i call. we're overrun. [14:39]
Adlai G.BUST [14:40]
asciilifeform random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims << here lies the boojum. it isn't unsubstantiated. mr thug is looking for which arse to stuff the soldering iron in, rather than trying to prove something to a jury [14:40]
asciilifeform the info on, e.g., 'bitbet' www, -could- be random garbage - but it -isn't- [14:41]
asciilifeform this isn't, again, a jurist's 'reasonable doubt' standard [14:42]
asciilifeform it's thug logic, and some of us live in thugschwitz [14:42]
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nubbins` then i guess you better not use bit(bet/coin) [14:43]
* asciilifeform waits for mircea_popescu to recite the proverbial 'if it hurts, don't do that' doctoring. [14:43]
nubbins` XD [14:43]
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mod6 <+funkenstein_> some testing notes for mod6 http://dpaste.com/1EP63W5 << thanks for the testing notes! [14:45]
assbot dpaste: 1EP63W5: release notes, by funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9ZpzN ) [14:45]
danielpbarron oh mod6 just the guy i want to see [14:46]
danielpbarron how would i go about compiling your bitcoind for macppc? [14:46]
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mod6 <+nubbins`> so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up to bitcoind itself << ah! ok. log/breadcrumbs help here : log output with uname -a and other important info is good to capture for a solid bug report. [14:47]
mod6 thanks for testing nubbins` [14:47]
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mod6 danielpbarron: hmm. well, first, you'd have to get the libs to build for the correct arch. does mac still use ppc? thought it was x86? but either way, you get the libs built, and then there might be some tweaks that can be done to get the makefile into shape for osx or w/e. [14:49]
* mod6 looks [14:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33835 @ 0.00027237 = 9.2156 BTC [-] [14:49]
danielpbarron i have some old macs [14:50]
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mod6 ah so PPC [14:52]
mod6 well, we'd have to spend some time just making sure we have the correct configure/compile flags set for openssl/bdb/boost and then create a patch or derivative of auto.sh for ppc-mac [14:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53478 @ 0.00027683 = 14.8043 BTC [+] {2} [14:54]
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mod6 then a makefile.osx would have to be modified and re-added to the package once working. [14:54]
mod6 im probably least clue'd on the mac side. if I had an environment to play on for a while, i could probably get it to work. [14:55]
asciilifeform http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/19/cansecwest_talk_bioses_hack << mega-l0l [14:55]
assbot Noobs can pwn world's most popular BIOSes in two minutes • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1BFRvJw ) [14:55]
mod6 but others might have faster/better-luck/more knowledge on that than ole mod6 [14:55]
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mod6 http://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_52_0.html << so it says that osx is supported here, but does this only indicate that it supports x86 of OSX? [14:58]
mod6 looks like it :/ [14:59]
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danielpbarron what about VAX ? [14:59]
danielpbarron http://www.openbsd.org/vax.html [14:59]
assbot OpenBSD/vax ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca1PhR ) [14:59]
danielpbarron OpenBSD still supports this for the purpose of finding bugs that would otherwise go unnoticed on modern speedy systems [14:59]
mod6 eh, i'm not sure on VAX either. i've never used it. it doesn't look like boost supports it. [15:00]
mod6 but maybe someday we can get builds/patches created to build/configure for these seperate arch's. who knows. [15:01]
danielpbarron https://books.google.com/books?id=PN6Xy9zWAbsC&pg=PR36&lpg=PR36 [15:01]
assbot Absolute OpenBSD, 2nd Edition: UNIX for the Practical Paranoid - Michael W. Lucas - Google Boeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1BFRIwk ) [15:01]
danielpbarron https://i.imgur.com/nup9VqD.png << for those who hate google [15:03]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BFRKo2 ) [15:03]
mod6 yeah. ok. so supporting stuff like VAX/Amiga/SGI/Sparc etc are going to take time and resources ... maybe someday we get there, who knows. but first we just wanna get it working for like x86 obsd, and other Tier1 platforms first. [15:04]
mod6 heck, i'd love to get an R.I. running on an UltraSPARC II box or something. [15:05]
mod6 it's just not time well spent for me atm since no one even has that stuff any more. :] [15:05]
danielpbarron yeah obviously get it working on whatever most people use these days [15:05]
mod6 i saw thay you're getting close to 300k blocks on pogo, that's great work. keep it up! [15:06]
danielpbarron and if you liked that paragraph i quoted there, it's from "Absolute OpenBSD" by Michael W. Lucas [15:06]
mod6 i feel like the pogo is hugely important for getting a large amount of nodes out there with 0.5.3.1, that's really exciting. [15:06]
danielpbarron i own this book and recommend it to others [15:06]
mod6 i've gotta get one going here myself. [15:07]
mod6 yeah I read the two paragraphs there "portability" and "power". [15:07]
danielpbarron apparently you can read the book on google? idk how that works [15:08]
mod6 it seems like a decent read. i feel like i my have read that book like a million-internet years ago. [15:08]
danielpbarron says you can buy it for 30+ USD on the side [15:08]
mod6 im old-school. i like real books. [15:08]
mod6 but yeah, i've certainly seen it in stores. [15:09]
danielpbarron maybe it's because that particular section is part of the pre-page numbers section [15:09]
danielpbarron roman numeral page numbers [15:09]
mod6 yeah, i saw that. usually on-line, you get a certain amount of sections to preview. [15:09]
mod6 (for free) [15:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's no relation between addresses and identities. [15:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: except when a man is sitting on a stake, and they have his decrypted wallet ? [15:10]
mod6 huh, weird, this one looks like you can read a lot of it... [15:10]
mircea_popescu but this is ex post facto. [15:10]
asciilifeform or, say, sr is busted and a number of addresses turns up there. then link between them and sr. [15:11]
asciilifeform am i missing something ? [15:11]
mircea_popescu "them" addresses. so ? [15:11]
mircea_popescu you gonna arrest an address ? [15:12]
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mircea_popescu "The point is less about how vendors don't fix the problems, and more how the vendors' fixes are going un-applied by users, corporations, and governments." << orly. how about the point is all about how "vendors" create bugs. [15:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00027237 = 4.4941 BTC [-] [15:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: need the magic eyeglasses to see that point, apparently [15:13]
asciilifeform because nobody but us appears to [15:13]
asciilifeform 'apply fixes, fixes, now!111!111' [15:14]
mircea_popescu "The LightEater attack would take an unskilled attacker such as a maid or border guard two minutes of physical access to a target laptop." [15:14]
mircea_popescu ahem [15:14]
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mircea_popescu anyway, since this "taint" bs keeps popping up, maybe a retrospective is a good idea. like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-06-2014#716247 [15:18]
assbot Logged on 13-06-2014 02:34:16; mircea_popescu: anyway, the fact that bitcoin is not actually traceable, and all the sophistry of taint can at most produce persuasion is one of the largest points of pressure applied by bitcoin to human society. it may result in the "reasonable doubt" standard being taken out. [15:18]
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mircea_popescu and where the heck's that 2013 bitbet discussion [15:21]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2014#470127 still not it hot damn [15:24]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2014 16:43:16; mircea_popescu: since you can by design make zero-delta bets, and since the fee is 1%... bitbet is partly the reason why mixer services sort-of died last year, i'd guess. [15:24]
asciilifeform re: bios: every portable computer i've opened in the past decade or so had the system bios stored in an eight-legged spi eeprom. one of the legs is a write-enable. in principle, not so hard to desolder & ground it. [15:27]
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danielpbarron in looking for a link, i found a typo in this page -> http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/ [15:28]
assbot Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca77d8 ) [15:28]
mircea_popescu whats the typo ? [15:28]
danielpbarron Retarded pieces like what Matonis is retweeting of late (shame on you man, seriously) are powerless in this matter, << links to trilema instead of twitter [15:28]
danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2014#520177 [15:29]
assbot Logged on 20-02-2014 19:47:58; mircea_popescu: why "you" ? [15:29]
mircea_popescu ah yes danielpbarron has it. [15:30]
mircea_popescu ty [15:30]
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mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/#footnote_3_52853 <<< ahahaha. [15:37]
assbot Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfJIGW ) [15:37]
mircea_popescu anyone guess what that hinted at ? [15:37]
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danielpbarron USG asking MPEx if so-and-so is a customer? [15:42]
danielpbarron or if such-and-such a bet was from whatever exit scam ? [15:43]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/ [15:44]
assbot Interacting with fiat institutions, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfLckB ) [15:44]
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danielpbarron or uh.. USG guy joins IRC and identifies himself as such [15:45]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2014#643118 << and since we're digging through logs... remember back when the scam foundation was "giving generous grants" ? [15:45]
assbot Logged on 25-04-2014 17:49:10; mircea_popescu: "After scoring a major grant awarded by the Bitcoin Foundation, Coinpunk’s beta version is finally available. The project, which is being developed by the veteran startup founder Kyle Drake, intends to build the first fully open-source, self-hosted do-it-yourself Bitcoin wallet service that you can run on your own server." [15:45]
danielpbarron signs message with GPG key hosted on a .gov [15:45]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [15:53]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: thank you for the answers and the link. I'll have a look on it before comment again. [15:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00027624 = 11.2153 BTC [+] [15:54]
mircea_popescu np. [15:54]
nubbins` i'll probably get a makefile.osx done up at some point [15:54]
nubbins` in order for it to compile all the deps, there's only a couple trivial changes to make [15:54]
nubbins` s/sha256sum/shasum -a 256/ etc [15:55]
mircea_popescu http://40.media.tumblr.com/d680f19e948db3a6f204280efa2bf7a5/tumblr_mwq1dag5pw1t1c22co1_1280.jpg << dat tit hang. [15:55]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfNqQP ) [15:55]
nubbins` s/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/ in irc.cpp and net.cpp [15:55]
nubbins` 'bout it [15:55]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: just one question mark: do you call fraud what does not have the "min. quality expected for that service" or something else? [15:56]
nubbins` mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld' [15:56]
nubbins` flags missing etc [15:56]
mircea_popescu felipelalli there's a difference between making cars as in, making a trabant, making cars as in, making a cardboard cut-out of a car, and making cars as in, making ford pintos, which explode killing their passengers. [15:57]
nubbins` mostly surrounding the static-build part of it, fwiw [15:57]
nubbins` *static-link [15:57]
mircea_popescu the main problem in commerce is that the most dangerous of these is the last, and the most readily identified by the consumer is the first. [15:57]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: got it! [15:57]
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felipelalli makes sense. [15:58]
mircea_popescu so you know, "it seems to be working" is a very bad heuristic for stuff like this. [15:58]
mircea_popescu the fact that it's not intuitively obvious is not accidental, but part of the problem. [15:58]
mircea_popescu the only similar situation i can imagine is self medication in medicine, where person goes to pharmacy swallows random pill for random ailment. [15:59]
mircea_popescu it "seems to be working" because placebo effect, a sugar pill "seems to be working", and then six months later guy with tb is dead of iodine poisoning or w/e. [15:59]
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felipelalli but sometimes is hard to point objectivally where is the "bomb" inside the car. Sometimes we have just some clues. And they'll know only after explode. [16:00]
felipelalli the same to your pharmacy example. [16:00]
felipelalli you can say "this box seems weird" (like violated e.g.) but you'll only know after die. [16:01]
felipelalli I read your BTCJam article on trilema [16:01]
felipelalli and I didn't find anything very objective, but I guess you're trying to find clues that points something is weird. But after using the system, you can understand for example how joke is they reputation system. [16:03]
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felipelalli is *their [16:04]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: a P2P lending system totally based on OTC WoT system would you consider a fraud as well or it could be something good? [16:07]
felipelalli I mean, rabbit out of this hat or not? This type of service is lost case? [16:07]
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thestringpuller felipelalli: the scam is that reputation is built nominally on btcjam vs. WoT [16:16]
thestringpuller s/the/a [16:18]
thestringpuller another scam is the repayment rate [16:19]
thestringpuller it's just scam on top of scam [16:19]
thestringpuller !up vorandrew [16:20]
* assbot gives voice to vorandrew [16:20]
vorandrew thanks... the problem with p2p lending - it one sided market [16:20]
vorandrew for example.. I wan to get loan... I want to get $95 and repay $100 in 2 months [16:21]
vorandrew If somebody can bet money that I will not pay it back - it will be incentive [16:21]
vorandrew for example bid/ask for Mr.X loan is .89-0.93 [16:22]
vorandrew means he wants to sell his debt for 93 cents a dollar [16:22]
vorandrew and somebody wants to buy his debt for 89 cents a dollar [16:22]
vorandrew let's say I'm sure he is not going to repay [16:23]
vorandrew If I have opportunity to put aside with escrow 1 dollar and sell his debt for 89 cents [16:23]
vorandrew I will be risking 11 cents if he is gonna repay [16:24]
vorandrew and 89 cents in profit in case he is in default [16:24]
vorandrew so this BTCJAM (or any other one way market) [16:24]
vorandrew is kind of pump and dump scheme [16:24]
vorandrew you repay all year just to get max rating [16:25]
vorandrew and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :) [16:25]
vorandrew now imagine - 1 day before debt expiration - prices should be near 0.99 [16:26]
vorandrew risking 1 cent in order to get 99 - not to shabby risk/reward ratio [16:27]
* asciilifeform walks in and #b-a is about... assets! wonders if he fell into a time warp [16:28]
thestringpuller asciilifeform is actually the flash [16:29]
thestringpuller and ran to fast and it now in 2012 [16:29]
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nubbins` http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/odin-s-birthday-celebrated-by-social-media-supporters-1.3004041 [16:42]
assbot Odin's birthday celebrated by social media supporters - Toronto - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xopTNX ) [16:42]
nubbins` smh [16:42]
mod6 <+nubbins`> mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld' << ah ok, yeah. [16:42]
nubbins` what happens next year? [16:42]
vorandrew ;;price [16:42]
gribble Error: "price" is not a valid command. [16:42]
asciilifeform nubbins`: mega-disappointment [16:42]
asciilifeform -that-'s odin!?! [16:43]
nubbins` https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/qa/qa1118/_index.html [16:43]
assbot Technical Q&A QA1118: Statically linked binaries on Mac OS X ... ( http://bit.ly/1xopXNH ) [16:43]
nubbins` admittedly not sure if related ^ [16:43]
nubbins` asciilifeform right? [16:43]
asciilifeform 'Apple does not support statically linked binaries on Mac OS X. A statically linked binary assumes binary compatibility at the kernel system call interface, and we do not make any guarantees on that front. Rather, we strive to ensure binary compatibility in each dynamically linked system library and framework.' [16:43]
asciilifeform ahahahahaha. [16:43]
vorandrew ;;help [16:43]
gribble The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/ [16:43]
asciilifeform waitasec why do we even care [16:44]
vorandrew !facts [16:44]
asciilifeform what apple does [16:44]
nubbins` we don't, i've got a passing interest [16:44]
nubbins` at least they point you in the direction of what to do should you choose to ignore dad advice [16:44]
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asciilifeform i used to have a passing interest, long ago. but for all i know you have to sacrifice a son to the crocodile god to get blessing from cupertino to distribute 'app' now. [16:45]
* nubbins` idly wonders what sort of install base Darwin has [16:45]
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asciilifeform nubbins`: probably somewhere below that of 'plan 9' [16:45]
nubbins` heh [16:45]
asciilifeform if you're thinking of raw 'darwin' [16:45]
asciilifeform at one point i had a machine going with each. [16:46]
nubbins` i know there is/was an "opendarwin" project [16:46]
nubbins` anyway, homebrew lets me install sane gcc, but apparently sane ld is off-limits? [16:46]
asciilifeform conflicts with the idiot ld on the box, or what [16:46]
nubbins` in theory there'd be conflicts with the idiot gcc [16:47]
nubbins` so brew installs things in a specific location [16:47]
nubbins` then i go rename the originals and ln -s [16:47]
nubbins` but check this out: [16:47]
nubbins` $ brew install ld64 [16:47]
nubbins` ld64: OS X Snow Leopard or older is required. [16:47]
nubbins` OR OLDER [16:47]
asciilifeform nubbins`: you might actually have more luck cross-compiling on that box [16:47]
nubbins` hmm [16:48]
nubbins` in what fashion [16:49]
asciilifeform say, for armv5 [16:49]
asciilifeform (crosstoolchain has prefixes in names) [16:49]
asciilifeform but i dare say this is a waste of time [16:50]
asciilifeform find a real computer [16:50]
nubbins` no kidding hey [16:51]
nubbins` brew install ld64 pulls down the following file: [16:53]
nubbins` https://opensource.apple.com/tarballs/ld64/ld64-97.17.tar.gz [16:53]
nubbins` o.O [16:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xoqGyB ) [16:54]
nubbins` how is this useful [16:54]
danielpbarron ftr I do not intend to acutally use apple software; i've been putting OpenBSD on old iMacs [16:54]
asciilifeform then no need for the weird apple minutiae, no ? [16:55]
asciilifeform is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ? [16:55]
danielpbarron i think nubbins` has other plans [16:55]
* danielpbarron shrugs [16:55]
asciilifeform i meant was, is anyone planning to -run- on apple's os [16:55]
asciilifeform because now that's just bizarre [16:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20591 @ 0.0002754 = 5.6708 BTC [-] {2} [16:56]
nubbins` that's what i'm trying to do, yes [16:56]
nubbins` not that i'm going to be running a node on this machine [16:56]
danielpbarron i plan on using nothing but OpenBSD whereever possible :p [16:56]
nubbins` just killing a saturday seeing how much work is involved [16:56]
asciilifeform i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo' [16:56]
danielpbarron although still using gentoo on this laptop and debian on my irc server and ArchLinux on the pogo node [16:56]
nubbins` 2 more pogos on the way here [16:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40761 @ 0.00027223 = 11.0964 BTC [-] {2} [16:57]
asciilifeform nubbins`: get a mega-crate while they're still around [16:57]
asciilifeform i have reasons to suspect that the pogo-4 is not long for this world [16:57]
danielpbarron they are selling the things at like 80% off because they think people will pay them 5 USD a month for cloud services [16:58]
nubbins` reasons that include dumping the hardware below cost? ;p [16:58]
asciilifeform and the cheapest entirely equivalent machine i was able to find on the market, anywhere on planet, is roughly 4x the cost [16:58]
nubbins` danielpbarron i'm still not sure how much is mfg subsidy and how much is dumping eol product [16:58]
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nubbins` the msrp on the things is like $99. [16:59]
asciilifeform there are inexhaustible many similar machines -without sata- for around 2-3x the cost of 'pogo4' [16:59]
asciilifeform but it is precisely the sata - and the Gb ethernet - which make the pogo what it is [17:00]
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mircea_popescu felipelalli it actually already works like that. [17:15]
ben_vulpes [19:50] is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ? << no [17:16]
ben_vulpes mod6 will be too polite about this [17:16]
mircea_popescu the reason you're not seeing "anything very objective" is because you don't know all sorts of things you don't know, and so they don't trigger for you. for instance : in a village where there's no bank, someone offering loans is one thing. in a town where banks exists and works, someone offering "loans" is called a loanshark. [17:16]
ben_vulpes but macos is marginal, and not at all a thing that i'm interested in hosting bitcoind on. [17:16]
mircea_popescu for fundamental or practical reasons ? [17:17]
mircea_popescu ie, macos too stupid to run software ? or, not enough people actually running it to bother with ? or what ? [17:17]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it has weird and very annoying quirks. just like actual unixen but not exactly, is the best description [17:20]
asciilifeform i think the japanese call this situation 'uncanny valley' [17:20]
mircea_popescu aha [17:21]
trinque situation will likely involve installing some mess like brew [17:21]
ben_vulpes where's that bash [17:21]
* nubbins` did install some mess like brew [17:21]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#896379 [17:22]
nubbins` fwiw brew is *just* a package manager ;p [17:22]
assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 03:33:41; decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars [17:22]
trinque nubbins`: I recall several instances of having done *dunno what* to fuck up my brew/macports/fink install [17:22]
ben_vulpes well a) marginal in that if you can hack an os x box, you are able to hack a linux or bsd box, and why prefer the consumer os to something designed for use by professionals [17:22]
nubbins` trinque my understanding is that installing brew and macports is a recipe for disaster [17:23]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: betcha 9 out of 10 times it is used because laptop. [17:23]
ben_vulpes b) it is the product of the devil, with all sorts of odd shit going on under the hood [17:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00028006 = 8.6258 BTC [+] {3} [17:23]
nubbins` asciilifeform +1 [17:23]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: invariably [17:23]
ben_vulpes 'tis why i use it. [17:24]
ben_vulpes i'd like to build out a workstation this year. [17:24]
ben_vulpes doubt that i'll have time, though. [17:24]
thestringpuller workstation isn't portable [17:24]
ben_vulpes anyways. [17:24]
jurov 36 quotes waiting for bash... looks like rs work, guess i'll start asking for donations :D [17:24]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: you don't say! [17:24]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the parts aren't getting any more findable. [17:24]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i've been wanting to build a successor to my '07 machine for a few yrs now, and at this point not sure that it will happen at all [17:25]
asciilifeform there are how many manufacturers of amd boards with support for ecc ram? 2? 1? [17:25]
* asciilifeform goes through this ritual every year or so [17:26]
ben_vulpes i honestly don't even know how to build a workstation. [17:26]
* asciilifeform with same result [17:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: you buy a number of things and bolt them together... [17:26]
ben_vulpes for example: why ecc ram? [17:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: this was actually discussed in #b-a on several occasions [17:26]
asciilifeform !s ecc [17:26]
assbot 63 results for 'ecc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ecc [17:26]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: cannot tolerate errors in memory for any reason, whatsoever. [17:27]
jurov can't one just use some server mobo? [17:27]
asciilifeform jurov: -must- [17:27]
asciilifeform jurov: but not so many for amd. [17:27]
asciilifeform esp. if you want expansion slots [17:27]
asciilifeform (for human use, typically want video boards, for instance.) [17:28]
* jurov is uninformed grunt with athlonII 630 fourcore with no upgrade plans and sadly no ecc [17:28]
trinque asciilifeform: do you find AMD more trustworthy or is it a technical preference? [17:28]
asciilifeform last i checked, i actually found an appropriate board. about 1k usd for mobo alone. [17:28]
asciilifeform trinque: amd is, recall, also american. but it does not have the history of outright warfare against its customers, or the surreptitious collaboration with microshit, that intel does. [17:29]
trinque yep knew they're american, hence curiosity [17:30]
asciilifeform there is no 'clean' cpu vendor on the planet today. [17:30]
asciilifeform even chinese 'loongson' is built with american w4r4z fab tools. [17:30]
trinque heh sorry to constantly remind you of this fact with my questions. [17:31]
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trinque I am still curious why davout uses win 3.1 to do his encryption [17:32]
asciilifeform trinque: there are other useful facts to know about intel [17:32]
asciilifeform trinque: for instance, that recent intel server boards all include -prominently advertised- hardware rootkits [17:32]
asciilifeform 'remote management' [17:32]
asciilifeform supposedly user-controllable, but srsly l0l [17:32]
trinque yeah, saw that feature on this lenovo [17:32]
trinque "feature" [17:32]
asciilifeform as for 'consumer' junk, recent intel boards have nintendo-style signed boot preventing use of linuxbios [17:33]
asciilifeform this should tell you everything you need to know. [17:33]
cazalla danielpbarron: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/ << is this a qntra article? <<< as far as i could tell, it's just a screenshot from btc-e chat, nothing came from btc-e themselves on the website, twitter etc etc, btc-e's email server was down too so people couldn't confirm withdrawal, so nfi if that link is even factual [17:33]
assbot Withdrawals halted as stolen evolution coins make their way to BTC-e : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1DISeAt ) [17:33]
trinque asciilifeform: indeed [17:33]
asciilifeform trinque: amd is not 'angelic', it is simply behind the usg schedule because, elementary, smaller market share [17:33]
asciilifeform and is the 'younger son' [17:33]
asciilifeform so not favoured by microshit [17:34]
asciilifeform but we all know where the train is going [17:34]
asciilifeform so if you want to buy hardware, do it while you can. [17:34]
nubbins` ;;google hear my train a-comin' [17:34]
gribble Hear My Train A Comin' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Jimi Hendrix - Hear My Train A Comin' (Lyric Video) - YouTube: ; Jimi Hendrix: Hear My Train A Comin' | Director's Cut Video ... - PBS: [17:34]
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jurov http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/ i dug out this [17:36]
assbot Motherboards - M5A97 R2.0 - ASUS [17:36]
asciilifeform jurov: own this one ^ ? [17:36]
cazalla plus the mods for btc-e chat are well known for trolling so who really knows [17:36]
jurov no, just could not believe there is nothing avail [17:36]
asciilifeform jurov: be careful with the ecc thing. many boards will take the dimms, but won't actually -use- ecc [17:37]
asciilifeform generally only 'server market' boards that -require- ecc, actually work with it. [17:38]
jurov wow, such scam [17:38]
asciilifeform other than that, i cannot comment on the linked item [17:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44350 @ 0.00027708 = 12.2885 BTC [-] [17:38]
mircea_popescu felipelalli http://trilema.com/2015/autotranslated-spam-for-the-lulz/ << here, for you. [17:38]
assbot Autotranslated Spam For The Lulz pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DISIqh ) [17:38]
mircea_popescu http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062597 << that's just the tenth of it, but yes, a major reason this doesn't work. [17:42]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 19:21:00; vorandrew: and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :) [17:42]
asciilifeform jurov: i generally buy boards that require 'buffered ecc' [17:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo' << ahahaha. nintendo! [17:45]
asciilifeform the solidest gold toilet available [17:45]
asciilifeform trinque, jurov: see also recently publicized 'rowhammer' effect. [17:46]
jurov it hits unbuffered harder? [17:46]
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asciilifeform not that i know of. unrelated [17:46]
mircea_popescu http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062676 << ayup. [17:46]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 19:54:27; nubbins`: the msrp on the things is like $99. [17:46]
asciilifeform though i'm uncertain re: whether ddr3 even exists in buffered-ecc variant [17:46]
mircea_popescu and since i'm off, i leave you with http://41.media.tumblr.com/8a8fca439ee8052b65b75202e77950b0/tumblr_mw45rs1ptf1t16d43o1_1280.jpg [17:47]
asciilifeform (ddr3 is the type of dram affected by 'rowhammer') [17:47]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DITzHB ) [17:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028206 = 6.0925 BTC [+] {2} [17:48]
asciilifeform http://www.servethehome.com/unbuffered-registered-ecc-memory-difference-ecc-udimms-rdimms << likbez re: ecc & buffering [17:50]
assbot Unbuffered versus Registered ECC Memory - Difference between ECC UDIMMs and RDIMMsServeTheHome – Server and Workstation Reviews ... ( http://bit.ly/1DITN1u ) [17:50]
ben_vulpes neat likbez, asciilifeform, thank you [17:54]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/autotranslated-spam-for-the-lulz/ [17:55]
jurov good. so we now know alf needs 100+G of RAM [17:56]
asciilifeform jurov: even something very modest like 16 begins to suffer from buffering problems if actually used in anger [17:59]
* trinque wonders what relevance running from ramdisks might have to the situation involving hd firmware [17:59]
asciilifeform trinque: hd firmware diddling is usually interesting at boot [18:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26718 @ 0.00028261 = 7.5508 BTC [+] [18:02]
trinque asciilifeform: boot from cd, decompress an image into ram? [18:02]
trinque not that it avoids any other diddled components [18:02]
trinque also where do you make your "clean" CD [18:03]
asciilifeform trinque: most cdrom drives have reflashable fw, incidentally. [18:03]
asciilifeform (why? don't ask me) [18:03]
nubbins` my first cdrw drive required a firmware update [18:04]
nubbins` well, "required". too long ago to remember what it did [18:04]
nubbins` ostensibly it's there for later when they discover bugs in their code [18:05]
asciilifeform the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable. [18:05]
nubbins` those drives, you prolly can't reflash the fw 8) [18:05]
trinque asciilifeform: "ship it!" (tm) [18:06]
asciilifeform incidentally, buggy+nonflashable is common as dirt. my car, for instance, has a buggy cabin thermostat controller. [18:06]
nubbins` they shoulda made it reflashable! [18:06]
nubbins` http://imgur.com/GY0nn5n [18:07]
assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIVufs ) [18:07]
nubbins` ^ homemade kimchi on the menu tonite [18:07]
trinque yum! [18:07]
asciilifeform actually i have no idea if flashable. could very well be. but no vendor upgrade has ever been released, nor is there any obvious means of applying one [18:07]
nubbins` nod [18:07]
nubbins` been fermenting on the counter for 6 days [18:07]
asciilifeform (some newer cars can actually be reflashed through the music player, famously.) [18:07]
nubbins` just fried up a test piece; wept [18:07]
nubbins` asciilifeform some synths i have can be reflashed modem-style via audio jack [18:08]
nubbins` update is released as wav file [18:09]
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nubbins` http://pastebin.com/uP8n9kkD [18:20]
assbot g++ -pthread -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wformat -g -DNOPCH -I/Users/jonkeefe/Downloa - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIWY9x ) [18:20]
nubbins` anyone have a suggestion as to where i start figuring out *which* file/directory it can't find? [18:21]
nubbins` everything in prior stmt appears to be present [18:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00028483 = 3.4749 BTC [+] [18:25]
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jurov i'd strace it [18:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45530 @ 0.00028152 = 12.8176 BTC [-] {2} [18:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027616 = 7.1249 BTC [-] {2} [18:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00027211 = 5.0612 BTC [-] {2} [18:41]
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nubbins` jurov good idea, nothing useful tho [18:45]
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* assbot gives voice to decimation [18:50]
decimation asciilifeform: I tried to compile an 'open source' app using the osx devel tool once [18:51]
decimation the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use [18:51]
decimation Xcode insisted that I required a paid apple developer account before I could consider such a thing, it appears [18:53]
nubbins` o.O [18:55]
decimation now, perhaps I was just unaware of the proper method of 'unsigning' someone else's code, but it wasn't an obvious feature if it existed [18:55]
trinque yeah, it can be done [18:56]
nubbins` is this a mac app or an ios app? [18:56]
trinque or at least years ago when I did this [18:56]
decimation mac app [18:56]
nubbins` ah, haven't ever used xcode for this [18:56]
trinque you have to set your ios device up as one of your dev devices [18:56]
decimation no, it was a mac app [18:56]
nubbins` as you can imagine, ios apps are under almost total lockdown [18:56]
trinque whether this much fuckery should be involved aside, it can be done [18:56]
nubbins` seems kinda weird that some random code won't compile tho. [18:56]
trinque you make your own self-signed cert then flip a setting that allows you to run such things [18:57]
decimation trinque: I did attempt that [18:57]
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nubbins` best batch of kimchi yet, btw [18:57]
nubbins` so goddamn sour [18:57]
decimation at any rate, it does appear that with each release of osx/xcode, apple subtlety changes what is 'allowed', without much explicit explanation [18:59]
trinque decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely [18:59]
nubbins` http://pastebin.com/kdybufC5 [18:59]
nubbins` ^ fwiw [18:59]
assbot 87105/0x2a6df: stat64("/Users/jonkeefe/Downloads/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/inclu - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/18Po7Kg ) [18:59]
decimation yes, the path is obvious [18:59]
nubbins` ran via "dtruss" [18:59]
nubbins` nothing useful afaict [18:59]
decimation apple could quite easily lock down osx just as hard as it locks down ios [18:59]
trinque decimation: pretty far from their roots these days [19:00]
nubbins` decimation a couple releases ago (maybe 1-2), the default behaviour for applications downloaded by "unknown developers" requires you to right-click,open [19:00]
nubbins` for first run [19:00]
decimation nubbins`: that's still the case [19:00]
nubbins` double-click turns you down [19:00]
nubbins` fwiw it's fairly non-intrusive and can be disabled [19:00]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [19:00]
decimation right, but apple just wants you to know that it sees what you are doing there... [19:01]
nubbins` :D [19:01]
decimation on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot' [19:01]
nubbins` <+trinque> decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely <<< a friend of mine says obummer is a reptilian [19:01]
decimation except apple doesn't really have a wot so much as it has a slave harem [19:01]
trinque nubbins`: heh, I tend to argue the contrary [19:01]
trinque but he has a point [19:02]
nubbins` like, remove Terminal.app from the default install, or remove the ability to run bash? [19:02]
nubbins` or something more nebulous [19:02]
nubbins` like "just remove" [19:02]
pete_dushenski if apple has a slave harem, they win the award for 'dumbest slave harem' [19:03]
decimation pete_dushenski: well, they apparently can charge people for the privilege of signing up [19:03]
trinque nubbins`: remove the ability to interact with anything other than signed cocoa apps [19:03]
pete_dushenski or maybe windowz wins. but w/e [19:03]
nubbins` well, y'know. [19:03]
nubbins` let em. [19:03]
nubbins` it's their hw/sw [19:03]
pete_dushenski decimation: they charge ppl for all the privileges! [19:04]
trinque sure, that was my reaction to the latest win10 signed boot bullshit [19:04]
nubbins` *i* won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors? [19:04]
pete_dushenski that's how you know it's lvmh territory [19:04]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: not since the state stuck its fingers in [19:04]
decimation as in maker of fancy trinkets for rich folk? [19:04]
pete_dushenski right [19:05]
decimation I recently heard an argument that apple's only recourse to 'grow' its revenue stream is to sell super-luxury goods [19:05]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: which would've been what, 1915 ? [19:05]
trinque decimation: the apple watch gadget etc [19:05]
trinque tv... so on [19:05]
pete_dushenski decimation: new product offerings grow their pie just as well [19:06]
decimation the argument being that even if every 'middle class' person in the world purchased a new apple device they would still only be 'holding steady' [19:06]
trinque I admire the way the company got started; someone needs to do *that* again [19:06]
trinque because now they're the IBM [19:06]
pete_dushenski not necessarily more premium, just... branded [19:06]
nubbins` mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction [19:06]
nubbins` but only ever so mildly [19:06]
decimation which explains the need to sell 10k watches, and cars, bespoke helicopters, etc [19:06]
trinque asciilifeform tells me there are no trustworthy components with which to re-do the garage build, and I don't doubt him [19:06]
pete_dushenski nubbins`: like engineless car market [19:06]
pete_dushenski buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine [19:07]
pete_dushenski uh, sure [19:07]
decimation nubbins`: there's the 'toughbook' [19:07]
nubbins` my next laptop will probably be a cheap desktop + chromebook [19:07]
decimation but I think it comes with winblows [19:07]
nubbins` decimation what am i, a cop?! [19:07]
decimation hehe [19:07]
nubbins` dell usually offers one or two linux laptops [19:07]
nubbins` hopelessly outdated and overpriced [19:07]
nubbins` otherwise, your choices are (a) give MS $25 or (b) fuck off [19:08]
decimation my recommendation is you purchase a laptop on the 'coreboot' list & flash your own bios [19:08]
trinque I've seen a system76 in person, seemed like a piece of shit [19:08]
pete_dushenski or buy old thinkpad [19:08]
pete_dushenski which i'll get around to myself at some point [19:08]
nubbins` trinque i researched those [19:08]
decimation be prepared for shitty device support [19:08]
nubbins` i honestly abhor the idea of a plastic laptop [19:08]
trinque pete_dushenski: I'm on a lenovo turd currently, do not recommend [19:08]
trinque thinkpad in name only [19:08]
pete_dushenski mm, ok so pre-2011 or w/e [19:09]
trinque yeah [19:09]
pete_dushenski update ram, new os, go [19:09]
nubbins` haha, i actually have a laptop w/ coreboot: OLPC XO-1. [19:09]
trinque my cellphone gets too close to this machine and the display starts flickering, disk remounts read-only [19:09]
decimation if you want 'cheap, don't care', you could buy a chromebook and reflash [19:09]
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nubbins` my criteria are (a) not plastic body (b) no money given to MS [19:10]
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pete_dushenski several ways to skin cat, hard to argue that any involve apple [19:10]
decimation well, the 'plastic body' fails almost everything [19:11]
nubbins` ^ [19:11]
decimation macbookpro or toughbook [19:11]
nubbins` mbp = soldered ram, glued battery [19:11]
pete_dushenski only newest ones [19:11]
nubbins` too troo [19:11]
nubbins` used laptops = ehhhh [19:11]
pete_dushenski glued battery wasn't there 3 years ago [19:11]
nubbins` who knows how they were treated [19:11]
pete_dushenski not sure about ram [19:11]
decimation yeah, you could buy an old g4 macbook pro [19:12]
pete_dushenski 17" screen! [19:12]
nubbins` maybe i'll just try stocking up on a full set of spare parts for this late-2008 macbook [19:12]
decimation replace battery, replace hdd [19:12]
nubbins` prolly no easier [19:12]
pete_dushenski maybe no easier, but that's not the point, the point is what's saner [19:13]
nubbins` this is actually the longest i've ever used the same laptop [19:13]
pete_dushenski well then why stop [19:13]
nubbins` planning for the future, yo [19:13]
pete_dushenski dollars to donuts a newer one won't last 7 years [19:13]
nubbins` one day this will die [19:13]
pete_dushenski but unless it's too slow for your needs, like decimation said, a new hdd or battery is all you'll likely need [19:14]
pete_dushenski what, maybe fan [19:14]
nubbins` got a new battery and upgraded to 8gb ram a couple months ago [19:15]
nubbins` breathed some new life into it [19:15]
pete_dushenski next: ssd [19:15]
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decimation they might not have sata drives, you might need an ata ssd [19:16]
nubbins` ssd i can do w/o [19:17]
* nubbins` doesn't do much disk thrashing [19:17]
decimation the issue is that it might suck if you don't run osx [19:17]
nubbins` that's what my iphone said when i walked into best buy [19:18]
nubbins` 8) [19:18]
PeterL so I applied for grad school today [19:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00027425 = 6.7466 BTC [+] [19:22]
pete_dushenski PeterL: what program ? [19:23]
PeterL Central Mich chemistry [19:24]
pete_dushenski nice. gl! [19:24]
PeterL thanks [19:24]
PeterL it's the only place close enough to be commutable [19:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.0002721 = 11.5915 BTC [-] {2} [19:26]
nubbins` PeterL congrats/condolences [19:29]
PeterL lol [19:29]
PeterL asciilifeform:the same folks who were paying the parasites (i will not call them publishers, they withhold only - performing not a single one of the traditional functions of a publishing house save the physical printing) - will continue to pay. << what is this "physical printing"? everything is online now [19:32]
PeterL btw, I'm a couple days behind in the logs [19:32]
decimation PeterL: it doesn't matter that it's all online [19:33]
nubbins` facepalm [19:33]
decimation in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong [19:33]
nubbins` http://imgur.com/oa5lj23 [19:34]
assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgBDli ) [19:34]
PeterL decimation: in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong << people share files, right? [19:34]
decimation sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly [19:35]
PeterL asciilifeform:and to the extent it isn't a problem, it is solely because academia is mostly dead as a going concern << and here I go trying to get back into it :( [19:36]
decimation PeterL: it's not a bad idea if you can scam someone into paying for it [19:36]
nubbins` fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity [19:37]
asciilifeform fact is, i can go and read print materials at uni library [19:40]
asciilifeform online ones - no. [19:40]
PeterL no university password? [19:40]
asciilifeform nope [19:40]
asciilifeform and i pay actual money just to be permitted in the library [19:40]
nubbins` even if you could read 'em online, look what happens if you read them too fast [19:41]
asciilifeform there has been a very sharp decline in the past few yrs in what i am able to access at the library [19:41]
asciilifeform because even the things still issued in print - many of the print subscriptions at this place were allowed to lapse [19:42]
nubbins` ^ [19:42]
asciilifeform because 'anyone who's anyone can read on www' or the like. [19:42]
asciilifeform and no, none of it is on warez of any kind [19:42]
asciilifeform (who would put it there, and why?) [19:42]
nubbins` ^ [19:42]
PeterL get an undergrad girlfriend who can print it for you? [19:43]
nubbins` "everything is online" is a fine premise for commodity data [19:43]
nubbins` rare data, not so much [19:43]
asciilifeform PeterL: someone suggested bribery & shills before. it doesn't work, because my use pattern is 'grep at 3am when moon is full' [19:43]
asciilifeform rather than 'fetch me XXXXX' [19:43]
nubbins` i've downloaded bootlegged concerts, since lost, that i will never, ever, ever find again [19:43]
PeterL you grep the dead trees? [19:43]
asciilifeform PeterL: approximately. [19:44]
asciilifeform speaking of the online stuff, really [19:44]
asciilifeform i browse. [19:44]
asciilifeform most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose [19:44]
asciilifeform but just to massage brain [19:45]
asciilifeform this is easy with print, difficult with www, but absolutely impossible with www that someone else is cranking for you [19:45]
PeterL browse through google scholar? [19:46]
asciilifeform PeterL: browsing for me implies instant access to full text [19:46]
PeterL good point [19:46]
asciilifeform not idiot 'winamp playlists' of titles [19:46]
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asciilifeform nubbins`: mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction << iirc the term of art is 'lemon market' [19:51]
decimation it's not like several day delay involved in informing whatever patsy to do what is needed is great for your train of thought [19:52]
asciilifeform !s ooda loop [19:52]
assbot 2 results for 'ooda loop' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ooda+loop [19:52]
decimation and then if patsy discovers the volume/paper/whatever wasn't useful, how do you think they will react? [19:53]
asciilifeform the whole point of a library, originally (ancient and medieval worlds) was so you don't have to write to phriend across the sea 'please send me work xxxxx' and get it two years later when you forget what it was even for [19:53]
decimation ie a cache [19:53]
asciilifeform to 'shorten the ooda loop' [19:53]
decimation but that was when only people who knew wtf they were doing could even read [19:54]
asciilifeform today 'library' could be anywhere with a net connection - but isn't [19:54]
asciilifeform and if it takes ww3 to eliminate the reasons for this - then i am enthusiastically in favour of ww3. [19:55]
decimation asciilifeform: publishers/authors have 'come to expect' royalties [19:55]
PeterL new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library [19:55]
trinque ahem... deedbot- [19:55]
decimation online repo is fine, as long as it is properly organized and indexed [19:56]
asciilifeform decimation: the authors virtually never see any positive cashflow [19:56]
nubbins` PeterL dat cutoff of comments [19:56]
decimation note that attempting to accomplish this task was why whats his face hung himself [19:56]
asciilifeform i'm not even satisfied that he did it himself [19:56]
asciilifeform but yes [19:56]
decimation heh [19:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9035 @ 0.00027384 = 2.4741 BTC [+] [19:56]
PeterL nubbins`: what cutoff? [19:57]
nubbins` waitnow. what articles? [19:57]
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PeterL all the articles asciilifeform wants to read later [19:58]
asciilifeform most of what i read is '70s-'90s and a good chunk of it is book [19:59]
PeterL would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research? [19:59]
decimation sure, or at least a hash/pointer to the same [19:59]
asciilifeform PeterL: so it isn't merely or even primarily about recent publications [20:00]
nubbins` o [20:00]
asciilifeform but this is a case of 'the spittoon' [20:00]
asciilifeform !s spittoon [20:00]
assbot 21 results for 'spittoon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spittoon [20:00]
trinque PeterL: depends on licensing I guess; I don't have the bankroll to get into any copyright battles for anyone [20:00]
trinque nor the interest [20:00]
asciilifeform the frustration of the activity is directly proportional to how often i end up 'following a dead link' - that is, trying to access something - anything - referred to in any work, and finding out that it isn't in the collection or i'm not cleared for it [20:00]
asciilifeform and generally the answer is 'constantly' [20:01]
decimation ^ me too [20:03]
asciilifeform since mircea_popescu is out, i will have to fill in for him and point out that yes, 99.9999% percent of the material is crud [20:03]
asciilifeform but this changes nothing [20:03]
decimation and I even pay for an IEEE membership w/societies (mostly IEEE papers) [20:03]
asciilifeform we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet. [20:04]
asciilifeform to anyone who ever wondered about what the net would look like if it were controlled by publishers, rather than telecoms: it would look like the academia web. [20:05]
trinque part of the interest for me working on deedbot- was to see how hard the next thing would be, publishing magnet link hashes, dht keys, something like that [20:05]
trinque that idea is better off being a tool you run against your own bitcoind [20:06]
asciilifeform trinque: warez only really works for popular things [20:06]
trinque asciilifeform: yeh, people here would have to run it [20:06]
trinque *seed [20:06]
asciilifeform for instance, go find peter kogge's 'symbolic computers' on warez. [20:07]
asciilifeform it isn't there [20:08]
asciilifeform and if it is ever there, it will almost certainly be because i will have found the time to scan it & post it. [20:08]
trinque asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy [20:09]
decimation asciilifeform: https://books.google.com/books?id=ruhQAAAAMAAJ < this? [20:09]
assbot The Architecture of Symbolic Computers - Peter M. Kogge - Google Boeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiVST5 ) [20:09]
trinque there are a few attempts at doing it with a shitty alt-coin [20:09]
PeterL trinque: isn't that what bitmessage is supposed to do? [20:10]
trinque PeterL: in the ballpark; there's storj, also ballpark [20:11]
asciilifeform decimation: yes, it [20:11]
trinque needs to be built on bitcoin [20:11]
decimation the g00g has it in their repo... [20:11]
PeterL why need to build on bitcoin? [20:11]
asciilifeform decimation: they have almost everything [20:11]
decimation aye [20:11]
asciilifeform decimation: but fat lot of good it does anyone else [20:11]
asciilifeform it's as uninteresting as the fact that the author might still have it on some ancient 8mm tape [20:12]
trinque google, one of the things which will survive the fall... [20:12]
asciilifeform trinque: see their usenet archive to learn what happens to material that the 1990s-birthdayed morons don't give a damn about [20:12]
decimation perhaps one day google will be 'snowdened' [20:13]
asciilifeform go steal 10000tB. [20:14]
decimation heh yeah [20:14]
decimation something tells me google security would notice the racks going out the door [20:14]
asciilifeform the only way it could really change hands is physical conquest of entire continent [20:14]
asciilifeform in the course of which most of it would be destroyed [20:14]
asciilifeform since mircea_popescu is out, i will fill in for him and observe that library of alexandria burning is no loss, when cockroaches evolve and replace man they will rediscover everything. [20:15]
asciilifeform i kinda wish i could think myself into the mindset of 'immortal olympian' that way [20:16]
asciilifeform but i happen to live here. and to me the availability of this or that piece of dead tree - matters. [20:16]
decimation agreed, me too [20:17]
decimation asciilifeform: how do you 'scan and post' a book? I just fujitsu scansnap [20:17]
decimation s/just/use [20:17]
asciilifeform decimation: tripod [20:18]
asciilifeform like the old spies with their 'minox' cams. [20:18]
decimation do you have a collection of custom scripts to turn a pile of images into a pdf/djvu [20:19]
trinque asciilifeform: is the situation that google bought deja news then didn't put up the whole archive? [20:19]
trinque I'm not old enough to have experienced a usenet golden age [20:20]
PeterL I used a couple "google groups" for a while, before I moved up to the bitcoinTalk forum [20:21]
decimation trinque: in the olden days it was expected your local isp would provide a usenet server and collect archives [20:21]
asciilifeform trinque: nope [20:21]
asciilifeform trinque: it's in there, as far as i can tell, but quietly stopped being searchable a year or so ago [20:22]
trinque ah [20:22]
asciilifeform and before that, they glommed it into their idiot 'google groups' thing [20:22]
decimation 'deja news' was kinda like the original 'stack overflow' in terms of its usefulness to troubleshooting common computer issues [20:22]
asciilifeform then they stopped making them searchable separately [20:22]
asciilifeform then - at all [20:22]
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asciilifeform i still can't tell if it was mere neglect, or shitgnomery, or specifically the folks who posted silly things on usenet in the '80-'90s are trying to run for political office, or what. [20:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00027377 = 12.5387 BTC [-] {2} [20:23]
trinque quip above about the fall was that I'm sure inside google it's easy to access all this information, regardless of what levers the external surface has [20:23]
decimation I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care [20:24]
asciilifeform trinque: they bought up the dejanews optical disks. and i'm be rather surprised if they didn't still have them. [20:24]
trinque decimation: probably doesn't matter [20:24]
decimation the assumption of competence when it comes to a big bureaucracy is generally a poor one [20:24]
asciilifeform say what you like about library of alexandria, but usenet '85-'2000 was home to virtually all of the technically competent folks who exist today. [20:25]
trinque asciilifeform's two govts observation about the US I think applies to Googles as well [20:25]
trinque who gives a fuck who's working on gmail [20:25]
trinque the company has more information than arguably any other, and is building a robot army [20:25]
trinque haha [20:25]
trinque they'll be powerful for a long time. [20:26]
decimation I don't buy that there is a meta-google [20:26]
trinque I don't buy that such overtly, cynically powerful entities have not a single functioning brain within [20:26]
decimation the same could be said about the us in general [20:27]
trinque "don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time [20:27]
decimation I like moldbug's theory: those 'with a brain' are generally engaged in spending all their time battling each other [20:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23544 @ 0.00027425 = 6.4569 BTC [+] {2} [20:28]
PeterL I wonder if google is cacheing the info on servers outside the US, so they could outlast a US collapse? [20:28]
trinque lockheed martins and googles are what I expect to remain in the ashes [20:30]
trinque which ones are actually prepared for the collapse, we'll find out then [20:31]
trinque but to think none of them are, that's naive [20:31]
trinque day two, and we're back to clubs and wearing skins [20:31]
jurov if the collapse will look like anything in the ostbloc [20:31]
jurov all gear will be gon to scrap metal or so [20:32]
asciilifeform the 'fine things of life' invariably are destroyed in a proper collapse. [20:32]
asciilifeform where is soviet physics? mathematics ? [20:32]
pete_dushenski like... twin studies [20:33]
trinque asciilifeform: silos are still there, as far as I know [20:33]
asciilifeform the folks not dead of drink have been driving cabs in nyc for so long as to have put their generative years firmly behind. [20:33]
asciilifeform trinque: not speaking of the rusty rockets at all [20:33]
pete_dushenski unless someone can point me to mengele's published paper [20:33]
trinque asciilifeform: I am [20:33]
pete_dushenski paper* [20:33]
trinque rustry drones maybe [20:33]
trinque *rusty [20:33]
asciilifeform but of the absolutely first-rate, never-equalled academic work [20:33]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: wrong twin studies [20:34]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: speaking here of the longitudinal studies of adopted children in usa [20:34]
asciilifeform (re: twin studies from last night's thread.) [20:34]
pete_dushenski aic [20:34]
asciilifeform l0l re: pete_dushenski immediately thinking of mengele's twins [20:34]
pete_dushenski also interesting, i suppose [20:35]
pete_dushenski haha what... i was trying to hunt down some nazi scientific papers last night [20:35]
pete_dushenski in english, found nothing [20:35]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: all the good stuff was taken to usa and is, for the most part, still secret [20:35]
asciilifeform (not because it included superweapons but to conceal the amount of u.s.-nazi cooperation from day one) [20:36]
pete_dushenski i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research [20:36]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: ibm, i know of [20:36]
asciilifeform not about ibm [20:36]
pete_dushenski what other cooperation do you refer to ? [20:36]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: chemical industry, for instance [20:36]
pete_dushenski sarin ? [20:37]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: plus the post-war rescue of virtually all of the weirdos (most famously von braun but many others) [20:37]
pete_dushenski my digging was more concentration camp focused, but i guess you bring up a good point that there's was a huge breadth of inquiry at the time [20:38]
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pete_dushenski chemical weapons, v2 rockets, many things i have still to learn of [20:38]
pete_dushenski *there was [20:39]
asciilifeform unfortunately pete_dushenski is right about the unavailability in english of most of the interesting material. [20:40]
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pete_dushenski hm well alexandria may have been replaceable/rediscoverable, but if nazi work goes down with usg, how long do we wait ? [20:40]
pete_dushenski if anyone can point me towards interesting work in german, i'll translate it for cripes sake [20:40]
pete_dushenski unrelated: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/21/cool-hand-luke/ << asciilifeform did i get the right grigorenko ?? [20:41]
assbot Cool Hand Luke. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bk0oZu ) [20:41]
* asciilifeform is not convinced that there was anything interesting in 'nazi academia' that we aren't already using in consumer tech (german chemical work, mostly, manufacturing techniques) [20:41]
decimation pete_dushenski: sprechen Sie Deutsch? [20:41]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: how about medicine ? [20:42]
pete_dushenski decimation: nein... [20:42]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: him. he has a book, about his life and how he was tormented in punitive psych hospitals [20:42]
decimation asciilifeform: I know that the german chemical industry was also generally transported to usg [20:42]
pete_dushenski in german, i have hello, goodbye, sorry, counting to 10, and a few other random words [20:42]
pete_dushenski about on par with my hebrew [20:42]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: you would do just as well to learn ru [20:43]
pete_dushenski i can see it [20:43]
pete_dushenski though if i could add any 4th language, just for reading comprehension even, it'd be german [20:44]
trinque pete_dushenski: ich lerne deutsche mit duolingo [20:44]
trinque barely toddler level, but the app's fun [20:44]
decimation unfortunately german isn't as useful today because germany has been well-anglicized [20:44]
pete_dushenski trinque: haha i actually did a few lessons on there ! back when i started 'sabbatical' [20:45]
pete_dushenski on the spendier side, there's always rosetta stone, but having someone to speak to other than my mother would be nice [20:46]
pete_dushenski i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse [20:46]
pete_dushenski but as i said earlier, reading comprehension would be the most valuable for my purposes [20:46]
pete_dushenski i mean, causes ;) [20:46]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: the quoted log in your post reads with great difficulty because of the choice of snips [20:47]
pete_dushenski hm. let me try again [20:47]
pete_dushenski one of the trickier conversations to break up, i admit, but it's a little better now. [20:52]
pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/14/the-world-is-fundamentally-hostile/#comment-13298 << heh. 'what makes me superior ?' [20:53]
assbot The world is fundamentally hostile. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/19He3nK ) [20:53]
pete_dushenski good question, really. [20:53]
pete_dushenski i guess teh jooz can always be blamed, right ? [20:54]
pete_dushenski so qntra business cards... i can dig it. [20:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.000272 = 14.8512 BTC [-] {2} [21:03]
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felipelalli thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices. [21:18]
felipelalli vorandrew: thanks for explain your point. [21:18]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it. [21:18]
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* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [21:39]
felipelalli thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices. [21:40]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it. [21:40]
felipelalli vorandrew: you said "you repay all year just to get max rating" << no, no. The service does not work like that. Actually, if you get too many loans your score can decrease. The score is very bad implemented / executed yet, but it is not SO bad like that. And 660K BTC? Well, they played in TOTAL until today 44K BTC. Total. I like the idea of P2P lending: it is not the most secure investment ever but at least is fun play choosing the [21:40]
felipelalli right lists, and the right rates. I really want to understand better why you guys dislike it so much. In my country the interest rates are very high. In my bank, for example, I can get a loan with 7% per month MIN! APR 125% and in BTCJam I made some tests and I could get my first loand with 3% per month (42% APR) and then the second 2.8% (39% APR). The loan is so fucking high in bank that I can say like mircea_popescu said: "we are [21:40]
felipelalli like a village without bank". You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country. [21:40]
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Pierre_Rochard You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country. << Is btcjam really a better borrowing option than, say, https://www.itau.com.br/creditos-financiamentos/credito/ [21:57]
assbot Itaú - créditos e financiamentos - crédito ... ( http://bit.ly/19HiBud ) [21:57]
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felipelalli Pierre_Rochard: yes. Itaú is my bank. [22:09]
felipelalli Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year. [22:10]
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felipelalli But now, BTCJam simply eliminated the free market where the user could choose its own interest rate (and let it free to investors fund or not), and they automagically calculate the interest rate. With this new rule, I can get by 3.5% per month. That is not a huge problem for me, actually, I was using this more like a test. But they simply buried the "service". Even if it was a zombie's forehead shot. [22:13]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [22:13]
PeterL asciilifeform: on the topic of browsing lit, have you looked at open access journals like http://www.hindawi.com/ ? [22:15]
assbot Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( http://bit.ly/19HjHWM ) [22:15]
felipelalli I'm sure I could set 2% rate or less and my list would be fund, because my reputation in Brazilian bitcoin community is very good. But now I have no choice rather than get 3.5% calculated like magic by them. That's why I was disgusted. I would write an article about that, but after talking with you guys in this channel I was unmotivated. [22:16]
felipelalli I had never thought that they did not deserve even taken seriously, but it seems to make sense. [22:18]
felipelalli PeterL: what is the rate per month you can get where you live? I heard it is much less than here. [22:18]
felipelalli PeterL: sorry, the question was to Pierre_Rochard [22:19]
Pierre_Rochard Pierre_Rochard: I think the worst credit cards run for 2% per month, 30 yr fixed rate mortgage with good credit will cost you 0.33% per month [22:22]
Pierre_Rochard ehrm felipelalli [22:22]
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ben_vulpes felipelalli: aha, that's why all the butthurt [22:26]
felipelalli ben_vulpes: yes! :) [22:26]
felipelalli ben_vulpes: I thought it was a global problem, but I learned here that: 1) there are rich guys (you guys) that really don't care about it. 2) there are guys with rich friends :) 3) your interest rate are ridiculous cheap. BTCJam really don't solve anything to you. [22:30]
felipelalli and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you. [22:31]
ben_vulpes aside one can't actually invest in BTCJam as such. [22:31]
felipelalli They could invest on me there. I was a very secure investment, e.g. [22:32]
felipelalli So, this: http://blog.btcjam.com/2015/03/19/btcjam-introduces-risk-based-pricing-interest-rates-set-automatically-by-credit-score/ makes me "cry". I ran to qntra.net to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view. [22:35]
assbot BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) | BTCJam Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhcebi ) [22:35]
PeterL you might be a fine investment, but btcjam is not [22:35]
felipelalli But I could easily be found there. And I have personal friends there, that I know it is a secure investment. That's why I only had profit, very few lost. [22:37]
felipelalli Actually it was easy to find red flags in the lists. Unfortunately their system does not help that much, but if you are smart, you can see the clues. [22:38]
PeterL see, you had wot ouside of btcjam that made those investments worthwhile [22:38]
felipelalli Yes! PeterL Exactly. [22:38]
felipelalli They were just like a tool to make easy contact 30 friends at the same time, and make it in 5 min. (actually in this 30 friends there were friends of friends, like level 2 in WoT)) [22:39]
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felipelalli And it makes more impersonal and passive. Instead to make a spam asking for money to your family and friends (active and personal), you can just publish the list (passive and impersonal) and anyone can invest if they want, or just ignore. Like 5 people I know personally invest their first 30% and the rest was "friends of friends". It just worked to me because I had a good "outside WoT". [22:43]
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ben_vulpes a good scammatron has totally legitimate uses and users. [22:47]
ben_vulpes well [22:47]
ben_vulpes one breed of good scammatrons. [22:47]
felipelalli LOL [22:47]
PeterL it is easier for scammers to hide if there are legitamate users around them [22:48]
felipelalli PeterL: ugly truth. [22:49]
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danielpbarron felipelalli, get your friends in here [22:54]
danielpbarron no reason you guys have to stop lending at your prefered rates [22:55]
PeterL do the speak english? [22:55]
felipelalli PeterL: no, Portuguese. [22:55]
felipelalli danielpbarron: I'm trying to convince some of them to use OTC system at least. [22:56]
ben_vulpes at the very least they need to be in the WoT [22:56]
ben_vulpes for their own continued health. [22:56]
felipelalli But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different. [22:56]
scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/users-of-evo-marketplace-btc-e-are-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/ [22:56]
ben_vulpes all of the above is why btcjam is a scam from the -assets perspective. [22:57]
ben_vulpes trust cannot be automatic, is built slowly, must be on personal terms, and contracts are always active. [22:57]
ben_vulpes this "passive investment" routine is a holdover from the fiat days. [22:57]
ben_vulpes of necessity, it must die. [22:57]
felipelalli I am not saying the trust should be automatic or fast. But the funding process. [22:58]
PeterL but you can passively invest with a broker who is in the WoT [22:58]
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felipelalli Like jurov ? [22:58]
ben_vulpes funding is as fast as a confirmation. [22:58]
ben_vulpes PeterL: who's taking investment? [22:58]
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PeterL I was thinking like Jurov, yes [22:59]
felipelalli He said something like that to me one day. [22:59]
asciilifeform PeterL: have you looked at open access journals like http://www.hindawi.com/ ? << even if, through divine intervention, everyone suddenly began to publish there (they won't) - this doesn't solve the 20th century [23:00]
assbot Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhgTdo ) [23:00]
asciilifeform PeterL: where most of the things i take an interest in actually happened. [23:00]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what do you mean by 'passive investment' ? [23:01]
PeterL you just need a couple slave girls with some cameras to tour all teh libraries [23:01]
asciilifeform PeterL: see 'ooda loop' discussion [23:01]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: something like MPIF [23:02]
asciilifeform even aside from the ooda loop, the #1 thing in a library is serendipity [23:02]
felipelalli Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.? [23:04]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what would be an example of an active investment ? [23:04]
PeterL MPIF is sorely lacking in places to put its money [23:04]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: allocating capital oneself between MPOE/BBET/BTC [23:04]
ben_vulpes am i misusing these terms? [23:04]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: so is your hypothesis that allocating btc between investments is so difficult and/or uninteresting that no one can do it for you for a fee and there still be anything left over to work with ? [23:05]
* asciilifeform is eminently unqualified to comment on the hypothesis itself, if this is it [23:06]
ben_vulpes no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime. [23:06]
mircea_popescu ^ [23:07]
PeterL You don't see a niche for a mutual fund covering MPEx? [23:07]
ben_vulpes in practice, i'm unaware of anyone offering to manage btc between MPOE/BBET/NSA/BTC for a fee. [23:07]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i was thinking about a hypothetical larger world where there are many worthwhile things [23:08]
ben_vulpes some day, ideally. [23:08]
asciilifeform say, S.USFAT [23:08]
PeterL once a few more stocks show up on the exchange [23:08]
asciilifeform (rendering various organisms for soap, a growth industry in the near future) [23:09]
mod6 :D [23:09]
PeterL maybe I could run that? pretty simple chemical reaction, really [23:09]
asciilifeform http://cryptome.org/2015/03/google-adsense-spying.htm << mega-l0l [23:09]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhiMqr ) [23:09]
mircea_popescu what's usfat ? [23:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: u.s. fat. [23:10]
mircea_popescu lol [23:10]
PeterL organisms, like tilapia? http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2015/265160/ [23:10]
assbot Characterization of the Fatty Acids Present in Wastewaters from Production of Biodiesel Tilapia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhiYpB ) [23:10]
asciilifeform no, like homo redditicus [23:10]
mircea_popescu i know a girl that makes soaps and stuff. she wouldn't touch the coarse stuff. [23:11]
mircea_popescu contrary to what they claim in fight club, best fat base is like, various nut oils etc. [23:11]
asciilifeform then diesel. [23:11]
mircea_popescu maybe. [23:12]
* asciilifeform firmly convinced that there are no entirely useless things in this world [23:12]
mircea_popescu oil at 45 a barrel tho... [23:12]
asciilifeform not even redditors [23:12]
ben_vulpes by the time the corpses are available, they'll have scavenged their own fat prior to dying. [23:12]
mircea_popescu how about sitching footballs ? [23:12]
ben_vulpes you've seen the auschwitz photos... [23:12]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: there is a hypothesis that this will not happen this time around. because of sudden release of fat-soluble poisons [23:13]
asciilifeform that weren't there in '40s [23:13]
ben_vulpes oh yeah? [23:13]
ben_vulpes i'm unfamiliar with this hypothesis [23:13]
asciilifeform aha. has not been tested in practice, afaik [23:13]
asciilifeform and i forget who suggested it to me [23:13]
ben_vulpes what's the gist, though [23:13]
ben_vulpes mustard gas...again? [23:13]
asciilifeform the gist is that folks will croak long before they turn auschwitz-thin [23:13]
asciilifeform on account of various strange in their american diet [23:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's exactly it. american fat is more like, chemdump [23:14]
mircea_popescu everything the liver culdn't cope with, got stored on the thighs [23:14]
mircea_popescu and yes it has been tested in practice. [23:14]
ben_vulpes blee [23:14]
mircea_popescu by me. on actual live womenz. [23:14]
asciilifeform and malnutrition turns the organism uniquely underequipped to deal with the released crud. [23:15]
PeterL so we need to render and extract the usians before making them into soap [23:15]
mircea_popescu not even malnutrition. simple sane diet will make the woman sick, anemic, the works. [23:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what happens, roughly ? [23:15]
ben_vulpes an exercise in slimming down a rubenesque babe lead to...liver prazlems? [23:15]
asciilifeform aha [23:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform all the classical symptoms of light poisoning. [23:15]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: what was diet prior? [23:16]
mircea_popescu "us food" [23:16]
PeterL us "food" [23:16]
mircea_popescu also. [23:16]
ben_vulpes "us" "food" [23:16]
ben_vulpes (for symmetry) [23:16]
felipelalli "us" food [23:16]
asciilifeform 'eat recycled food!' (TM) [23:16]
mircea_popescu "us "food"" technically. first set because answer to q, 2nd set because well... [23:17]
ben_vulpes heh. [23:17]
mircea_popescu but you can readily notice the pure chemical osmotic source of "weight gain" when the woman eats 50% more calories and loses weight. [23:17]
ben_vulpes body building fat reserves to park toxic crap in? [23:18]
mircea_popescu in general, you gotta overfeed to lose weight. because the only way the body is even touching some of that stuff is if the liver is full of all sorts of micronutrients to render it with [23:18]
mircea_popescu yup [23:18]
ben_vulpes what are the limiting reactants? [23:19]
mircea_popescu then after a year or two as the body re-learns to associate food with micronutrients - all sorts of urges, as it approaches various layers of problems [23:19]
asciilifeform almost sounds like the '80s 'chelation' theory [23:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i honestly think it's exactly accurate. [23:19]
* asciilifeform suspected but did not know [23:19]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i dunno dood. milk's a big thing. various fats, various vegetals. [23:19]
PeterL I'm guessing colorful vegtables help? [23:20]
mircea_popescu one chick went through a chickpea phase where she ate > 100 cans over about a year. half of it within the first season. [23:20]
mircea_popescu "what do you want to eat today ?" "chickpeas" [23:20]
* asciilifeform looks for al schwartz's table of plant toxins; can't find at the moment, but recalls that chickpeas were near the top for something or other [23:21]
mircea_popescu i think it was either a protein or fat that was needed for god knows what. because phase passed. [23:22]
mircea_popescu sadly i don't have the patience or the tools to actually get into the microchemistry of it [23:22]
asciilifeform ;;google lathyrism [23:22]
gribble Lathyrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Lathyrism: a neurotoxic disease.: ; Lathyrism | Doctor | Patient.co.uk: [23:22]
asciilifeform hm not chickpeas [23:22]
mircea_popescu im 100% sure this is where all the "Fad diet" stuff comes from too. [23:23]
mircea_popescu people still stuck in the soup get at the margins various such desperate cries from body. [23:23]
mircea_popescu some make it through [23:23]
mircea_popescu hence the idiocy of "eat nothing else but ...." [23:24]
mircea_popescu really it should be "leave the states and eat ... to your fill". [23:24]
mircea_popescu but o may gawd, leaving THE COUNTRY, unthinkable. [23:24]
ben_vulpes STEAK [23:24]
ben_vulpes VINO [23:24]
mircea_popescu i have no experience with men. [23:24]
* asciilifeform wonders if anyone ever polled, who would leave if could [23:24]
asciilifeform or whether such a thing even makes sense [23:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform just sayin', doesn't occur to them. [23:25]
asciilifeform doesn't occur !?! [23:25]
ben_vulpes nope. [23:25]
asciilifeform how many folks in usa went on an airplane even once? did it not occur to not buy return ticket? [23:25]
asciilifeform even as thought experiment [23:25]
PeterL this is the best country evar, why would I leave? [23:25]
ben_vulpes "but muh jerb" [23:25]
mircea_popescu PeterL it has its disadvantages. [23:26]
asciilifeform 'Kazakhstan! greatest country in the world! all other countrys are run by little girls...' (tm) [23:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places". [23:26]
PeterL plus, most of them would say they *could* leave, if they wanted to [23:26]
ben_vulpes lol [23:26]
ben_vulpes i *would* leave if i *could* [23:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is not accidental. folks who travel from usa to english-speaking (or most western eu in general) aren't actually leaving the empire [23:27]
mircea_popescu which is why stuff like "putin doesn't understand how thw world works" can be said with a straight face [23:27]
asciilifeform and hence 'not real places' is factual [23:27]
mircea_popescu for a good chunk of the audience, this is actually so. it's not even a real country. [23:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, because they stick to the touristy traps anywhere. stopped for coffee earlier at whorehouse cafe, table across two lost derps with ipad propped on "south america on a shoestring". muy confused. [23:28]
asciilifeform 'Ist dis Nazi Land so good? Would you leave it if you could? Ja, dis Nazi Land ist good! We would leave if we could.' ('der fuhrer's face', 1942) [23:28]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: oh hey can we do the whorehouse cafe? [23:28]
mircea_popescu haha, re that, must has animaniacs [23:28]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes sure. [23:28]
asciilifeform that was a 'donald duck' [23:29]
mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk [23:29]
assbot Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhmK2g ) [23:29]
mircea_popescu remake. [23:29]
asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzH1iaKVsBM << classic [23:29]
assbot Donald Duck der Nazi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhmX5r ) [23:29]
ben_vulpes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk << "americans ruin everything" - lady v [23:32]
assbot Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhnxQO ) [23:32]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: "but muh jerb" << when you open a metal shop in #b-a, perhaps i can go and work sweeping floor there. [23:32]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes lol [23:32]
ben_vulpes myeah she's a chuckle. [23:33]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: it'll probably be well outside of city limits [23:33]
ben_vulpes nearer that southern port city [23:34]
* TheNewDeal has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [23:34]
asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nknPYKw2QM [23:36]
assbot U.S. Army - Booby Traps - Banned Cartoons - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJqk7y ) [23:36]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062798 << you know ? just as unthinkable as the http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063368 [23:39]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 21:00:49; asciilifeform: the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable. [23:39]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 02:22:03; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places". [23:39]
mircea_popescu lots of "unthinkables" needed to keep the soviets going. [23:39]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062825 << how the fuck is this open source. [23:41]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 21:47:01; decimation: the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use [23:41]
mircea_popescu apple "open" : we'll give you some fiction to read while the thing boots ? [23:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rms has a term of art for it, 'tivoization' [23:41]
mircea_popescu mhm [23:42]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062860 << except a)nobody trusts it and b) it doesn't actually trust anyone. lots of scammy devs make it on account of w/e fee. [23:43]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 21:56:58; decimation: on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot' [23:44]
mircea_popescu heck, zinga still exists on apple right ? [23:44]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062877 << since no more welfare, so idiots either starve or slave. [23:45]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 21:59:40; nubbins`: *i* won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors? [23:45]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062896 << this is kinda how the illegal racing world works. [23:46]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:02:30; pete_dushenski: buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine [23:46]
cazalla felipelalli: I ran to qntra.net to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view. <<< fwiw i would never lend bitcoin to people on btcjam regardless of their ability to pay back, i'd never use the site to borrow either, so i guess it's not so difficult to see why i would not write a story on it either [23:47]
cazalla felipelalli, if you only use it to borrow, i don't really see the problem with you using it, but i'd never lend [23:48]
mircea_popescu how are silk road copycats supposed to make enough to run away with if you won't give the pillheads "loans" yo ? [23:48]
mircea_popescu think of the children! [23:48]
ben_vulpes we've been looking into the apple "enterprise deployment" story of late [23:48]
ben_vulpes always keeping in mind that it is a rug [23:48]
mircea_popescu ^ [23:49]
ben_vulpes and the ghost of steve is yet prepared to rip it out from beneath us [23:49]
mircea_popescu i briefly considered adding an apple apps thing for s.mg [23:49]
mircea_popescu the idea... died. [23:49]
ben_vulpes apple is pretty much anathema to the #b-a approach to compute. [23:49]
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mircea_popescu or to any approach that includes anyone but apple making money. [23:50]
ben_vulpes one of the reasons i'm not targeting macos for RI builds. [23:50]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062973 << isn't that how that kid got shot with a nailgun by andreas antonoderpopolous ? [23:51]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:31:05; decimation: sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly [23:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00027195 = 12.9584 BTC [-] [23:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062976 << in this vein : http://40.media.tumblr.com/982abc36543d4b8bab3d12582b23fab6/tumblr_mw5pbmKA9N1t16d43o1_1280.jpg [23:52]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:33:07; nubbins`: fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity [23:52]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhr7dM ) [23:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: reminiscent of anthill chick [23:52]
mircea_popescu notrly. this is fun. [23:53]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063000 << alf was wikibinging before it was cool. [23:53]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:40:21; asciilifeform: most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose [23:53]
danielpbarron in comments for that disney nazi thing: "Who im german and I dont like this we are nice and hittler whs the only bad german" [23:54]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063019 << nah, only some of them. we're ignoring most of it : http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/ [23:55]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:51:01; PeterL: new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library [23:55]
assbot How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdlojA ) [23:55]
mircea_popescu but i can envisage the day when a) all science is published via b-a, and to read... get in wot [23:55]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063033 << at least originally. prolly split off on its own thing once it gets big. [23:56]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:55:01; PeterL: would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research? [23:56]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063048 << same mechanbism as to produce the good code separately. sign and wot. [23:57]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 22:59:27; asciilifeform: we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet. [23:57]
asciilifeform nono not that part [23:58]
asciilifeform the what-do-they-eat. [23:58]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063058 << that's basically gossipd. [23:59]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:04:58; trinque: asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy [23:59]
* dEBRUYNE_ (~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:59]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform eat ? [23:59]
mircea_popescu what is this, the future ? [23:59]
asciilifeform aha [23:59]
mircea_popescu geniuses don't eat [23:59]
mircea_popescu geniuses starve. [23:59]
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