Forum logs for 22 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform [insert army of the dead scene from 'lord of rings'] [00:00]
asciilifeform ^ best geniuses are undead [00:00]
mircea_popescu looky here : ALL the problems of modern academia, from faux psychiatry used to cover up for govt failure to faux "earth sciences" used to cover up for govt failure to the diploma mill etc [00:00]
felipelalli Thank you cazalla [00:00]
mircea_popescu they ALL stem from the mistaken idea that creators should be able to eat, and the typiocally american (ie, fucktarded and grossly ignorant) solutions attempted. [00:01]
mircea_popescu the moment creation is +EV, all the narcisists flood in and destroy thinking. [00:01]
asciilifeform they ALL stem from the mistaken idea that creators should be able to eat << mircea_popescu suggests they should photosynthesize ? [00:01]
mircea_popescu stick with the day job. [00:01]
mircea_popescu thinking can never be a job. [00:01]
danielpbarron felipelalli, are you familiar with deedbot? [00:02]
mircea_popescu all the schmuckodon in "bitcoin business" comes from the completely irrational expectations of all these schmucks that they can earn a living "being" "ceo"s. [00:02]
cazalla felipelalli, also i don't place much faith in how they identify people, a driver's licence, electricity bill.. worth just as much as newly created wot identity with no feedback.. plus the sort of person who needs to borrow $500 is the sort of person who would lift things such as a drivers licence from parents/friends/partners wallet anyway [00:02]
felipelalli danielpbarron: no, I'm sorry. [00:02]
ben_vulpes cazalla, felipelalli: identity is not the important bit. trustworthiness is. no drivers license or electric bill proves trustworthiness. [00:03]
asciilifeform actual ceo also earns a living [00:03]
danielpbarron felipelalli, it's this -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063261 [00:03]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:59:35; felipelalli: Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.? [00:03]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not for BEING. [00:03]
mircea_popescu he has an actual day job. [00:03]
cazalla ben_vulpes, yeah, summed it up better than how i explained it [00:03]
felipelalli ben_vulpes: I can't agree more. [00:04]
asciilifeform but, typically, not 'day job' in the 'schmuck who will starve after N paycheques skipped' sense [00:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nevertheless. [00:04]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: how many is N to you? [00:04]
ben_vulpes 2? [00:04]
ben_vulpes 80? [00:04]
mircea_popescu he doesn't have to starve at all. he just has to not expect to suport self by singing-songwriting. [00:05]
asciilifeform any integer N meant here [00:05]
felipelalli danielpbarron: is that? https://github.com/bitrecruiter/deedBot os something else? [00:05]
assbot bitrecruiter/deedBot · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhtxcj ) [00:05]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: even the CEO will drain his accounts after...10? 20? years without income. [00:05]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: how long it would take for herr buffett to drain ? [00:05]
asciilifeform soros? [00:05]
mircea_popescu felipelalli http://trilema.com/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated [00:05]
assbot Page not found pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhtzkj ) [00:05]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no he won't lol. [00:05]
mircea_popescu no sane ceo actuallyhas to work, ever. [00:06]
felipelalli thx. [00:06]
ben_vulpes the americans "CEO" on hookers and blow. [00:06]
asciilifeform no sane ceo actuallyhas to work, ever << so then! [00:06]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not because he is geniuz! [00:06]
felipelalli as a bitcoin gosthbusters are you guys are, is this https://github.com/maraoz/proofofexistence scam? [00:06]
assbot maraoz/proofofexistence · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhtHQK ) [00:06]
mircea_popescu because he is wealthy. different thing entirely. [00:06]
mircea_popescu !s proofofexistence [00:06]
assbot 7 results for 'proofofexistence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=proofofexistence [00:06]
ben_vulpes "proof of existence" << sad story of not being in the wot and ergo not mattering. [00:07]
mircea_popescu pretty much that. [00:08]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063080 << i honestly don't give a shit about those 1000tb. for very similar reasons as ^ [00:08]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:10:54; asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is out, i will fill in for him and observe that library of alexandria burning is no loss, when cockroaches evolve and replace man they will rediscover everything. [00:08]
mircea_popescu as discussed in the pseudoscience bit : unless you folks start quoting it to me, it's just another bit of anglowank, couldn't care less. [00:08]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: incidentally, neal stephenson (in fiction) proposed a pill against 'the moment creation is +EV, all the narcisists flood in' - monasteries [00:08]
mircea_popescu experimentally doesn't work. [00:09]
asciilifeform -ev, but no day job, you pay with pain [00:09]
asciilifeform and obscurity [00:09]
mircea_popescu colleges started out as monasteries. [00:09]
* felipelalli has quit (Excess Flood) [00:09]
mircea_popescu and before those, knighthoods [00:09]
mircea_popescu both failed, spectacularly so. [00:09]
* felipelalli (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:09]
mircea_popescu took a while, but i suspect more due to slow comms at the time. [00:09]
ben_vulpes gotta breed. [00:10]
ben_vulpes more importantly, hammer idiocy out of each succesive generation. [00:10]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: in stephenson's world, they didn't need to. collected unwanted children from outside. [00:10]
* decimation (~bit_nugge@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:10]
asciilifeform and grew them with discipline [00:10]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063096 << yet another google failure at mattering in social. [00:10]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:17:58; asciilifeform: and before that, they glommed it into their idiot 'google groups' thing [00:10]
ben_vulpes yes, i recall. [00:10]
ben_vulpes who though will start this monastery today? [00:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this modesty... fuck that. collect the most desirable children from outside : teenaged women with big tits. [00:11]
mircea_popescu fuck the outside. [00:11]
* felipelalli has quit (Excess Flood) [00:11]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i wasn't suggesting it as a practical recipe. more of an overall reagent. [00:11]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [00:11]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: collect the most desirable children from outside : teenaged women with big tits << building harem then, not mathematical monastery, i take it. [00:11]
asciilifeform we already know how harems built [00:12]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063103 << this. they hire "the best", ye, young schmucks. [00:12]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:19:31; decimation: I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care [00:12]
decimation http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/03/20/394340722/john-urschel-ravens-offensive-lineman-publishes-math-paper < big black guy who plays linemen for the baltimore ravens just published a mathmatics paper entitled "A Cascadic Multigrid Algorithm for Computing the Fiedler Vector" [00:12]
assbot John Urschel, Ravens Offensive Lineman, Publishes Math Paper : The Two-Way : NPR ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhuZeI ) [00:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform just making the point that if you're going for your reagent, make the relative situation obvious : the outside world is despised. [00:12]
decimation there's some genetic intelligence for you [00:12]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [00:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the outside world is despised << in the book, this was underscored on every page. and the degeneracy depicted also. [00:13]
mircea_popescu well then why take its dregs ? [00:13]
ben_vulpes there's a time tested model for this, and it's the noble family. [00:13]
mircea_popescu what, are we puritans ? [00:13]
ben_vulpes worse, americans with a do-gooder complex. [00:13]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes if you mean, as in latium, then note octavianus didn't adopt random orphans a la dick tracy. [00:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wasn't specified as 'dregs' but as children who liked to think and weren't especially missed when inducted [00:13]
mircea_popescu take the other ones. [00:14]
mircea_popescu like army. take the children women weep for. or men, in this case. [00:14]
mircea_popescu let them rebel over it, and be mowed down periodically. [00:14]
asciilifeform decimation: re: footballist and maths << napoleon has at least one theorem to his credit [00:14]
mircea_popescu that way, at least you know why you're bothering. [00:14]
ben_vulpes by their own stolen children. [00:14]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes sipahi is the turkish term. [00:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: janissary corps? why not [00:15]
mircea_popescu but with tits. [00:15]
mircea_popescu tits make everything better. and also worse. [00:15]
ben_vulpes sipahi << yeah. that berber book's really good. [00:15]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: how did octavianus meet his adoptees? [00:16]
mircea_popescu exactly like we met. in the forum. [00:16]
ben_vulpes adoptee* [00:17]
mircea_popescu how else are you going to meet people ? [00:17]
mircea_popescu in the fucking bus ? [00:17]
ben_vulpes here we are again at the "no people outside the forum" checkpoint. [00:17]
mircea_popescu quite. [00:18]
mircea_popescu if you look at it, the entire history of rome, from kingdom to empire, was basically this : they had a set of benches under some trees somewhere [00:18]
mircea_popescu and some guys went to sit. and well... who sits where / [00:18]
mircea_popescu this has to be resolved, this question. [00:18]
mircea_popescu and it was. [00:18]
mircea_popescu ten million dead in galia. [00:18]
decimation ben_vulpes: no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime. < the problem isn't the passive returns, the problem is that schmoes off the street can invest [00:19]
mircea_popescu three vultures lost in the east. [00:19]
mircea_popescu etc. [00:19]
decimation anything that is 'mass adopted' is nearly by definition some kind of scam [00:19]
ben_vulpes three vultures lost in the east. << i do not get this reference. [00:19]
asciilifeform the 'day job' thing is more complicated than looks on the surface. a medieval serf, for instance, served for a much smaller fraction of his waking time than i or ben_vulpes do [00:20]
asciilifeform (elementary calculation re: taxation) [00:20]
ben_vulpes decimation: "schmoes" << that they have anything to invest in the first place is due to the american democracy/communism thing, from there we quickly hit the "one day bitcoin will make us all royals, and when can i lop the peasants heads off again?" checkpoint [00:20]
asciilifeform or even a generation ago, rough 'cost of life' in civilized works was a fraction of today's [00:20]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes at some point a roman army was defeated, a total of three aquillae (legion header) were lost. the romans spent a century trying to get them back, at one point famously excavating a few square miles o land [00:20]
felipelalli why deedbot- is rejecting my key? I sent http://pastebin.com/R0cK3111 and it says: "Bad URL or network outage." I also tried http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=R0cK3111 with the same effect [00:21]
assbot -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: SKS 1.1.5 Comment: Hostname: pgp - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhwXMa ) [00:21]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhwY2w ) [00:21]
* [KS]_ (~quassel@109.236.138.231) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:21]
ben_vulpes felipelalli: pastebin is banned. [00:21]
mircea_popescu it is ?! [00:21]
ben_vulpes yes. [00:21]
mircea_popescu trinque can it accept any url yet ? [00:21]
ben_vulpes lf/cr idiocy. [00:21]
mircea_popescu hm [00:21]
mircea_popescu felipelalli use dpaste.com ad interim [00:22]
ben_vulpes well i've no idea how trinque's configured deedbot-, that's not my problem. [00:22]
felipelalli I also tried to paste my key there and I was disconnected due to "flood" [00:22]
mircea_popescu well yes, you're not supposed to do that. [00:22]
ben_vulpes i'm just pointing out that pastebin's not allowed in these parts. [00:22]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: so update the blog entry. [00:22]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: re vultures < aaah [00:22]
mircea_popescu which entry ? [00:22]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: thank you! I'll try dpaste.com [00:22]
* odyjm (~tradeX@modemcable102.136-177-173.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:23]
felipelalli http://trilema.com/2015/open-deed-system-for-bitcoin-assets-updated/ [00:23]
assbot [undata] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets, updated. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhxptC ) [00:23]
mircea_popescu !up odyjm [00:23]
-assbot- You voiced odyjm for 30 minutes. [00:23]
* assbot gives voice to odyjm [00:23]
felipelalli >> 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin link, [00:23]
mircea_popescu ah. the spec doesn't change by the implementation yo. the other way around. [00:23]
mircea_popescu also, that's a generic term :p [00:23]
* [KS] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [00:23]
ben_vulpes trinque's doing a major launch this week, i think we'll be lucky to get much of a peep out of him at all [00:23]
mircea_popescu aite. [00:23]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: interesting parallel [00:23]
mircea_popescu o you two work together was it [00:23]
ben_vulpes taxation you, i trinque pay to la serenissima is rather small [00:24]
mircea_popescu for this reason. [00:24]
asciilifeform together in the sense of usaschwitz [00:24]
ben_vulpes definitely in comparison to that required to survive in fiatland [00:24]
* asciilifeform has not yet met ben_vulpes in the flesh [00:24]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu, no not this year. [00:24]
ben_vulpes he has his thing, and i mine. [00:24]
mircea_popescu aha [00:24]
ben_vulpes we live a few blocks from each other, drink each others wine, fuck each others girls [00:24]
ben_vulpes etc [00:25]
ben_vulpes (and no, not really the latter) [00:25]
asciilifeform ^ that was trinque ? [00:25]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: no lucky with dpaste.com as well "Bad URL or network outage." [00:25]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063116 << wasn't originally [00:25]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:23:07; trinque: "don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time [00:25]
asciilifeform i mean, ben_vulpes and trinque live a few blocks .. ? [00:25]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: yeah, the thread kicked off at " trinque's doing a major launch this week, i think we'll be lucky to get much of a peep out of him at all" [00:25]
mircea_popescu felipelalli are you using the raw or the html version ? [00:25]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: aha got it [00:25]
felipelalli I tried the raw first, I'll try the other [00:25]
mircea_popescu raw should work. [00:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: now i recall, there was a thread where one of you asked the other for a smoke in-channel [00:26]
mircea_popescu felipelalli do it in here so i can see wtf ? [00:26]
mircea_popescu !up deedbot- [00:26]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: taxation /i/ speak of is deedbot, nsa, phundation [00:26]
-assbot- You voiced deedbot- for 30 minutes. [00:26]
* assbot gives voice to deedbot- [00:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ah, i was thinking of the other taxation, where goons come and lift a penny out of every 3 i make [00:26]
felipelalli http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH [00:26]
assbot dpaste: 3EAX9QH ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhyguo ) [00:27]
felipelalli I also tried http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt [00:27]
ben_vulpes no, i'm talking that which your lord and sovereign demands of you. [00:27]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhyjqj ) [00:27]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063127 << perelman :D [00:27]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:28:17; asciilifeform: where is soviet physics? mathematics ? [00:27]
mircea_popescu felipelalli bare url wouldn't conceivably work. gotta deedbot- ur; [00:28]
ben_vulpes deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt [00:28]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhyDoI ) [00:28]
deedbot- imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14 [00:28]
felipelalli how? [00:28]
ben_vulpes pahaha [00:28]
felipelalli O_O [00:29]
ben_vulpes jesus, you guys. [00:29]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063130 << fwiw, i believe this "generative years" is bullshit. it only makes sense in ossified society, because older guys have stupid shit to waste their tiem with. otherwise, in catastrophic situation, age does not matter. how old was Aeneas ? [00:29]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:28:44; asciilifeform: the folks not dead of drink have been driving cabs in nyc for so long as to have put their generative years firmly behind. [00:29]
asciilifeform aeneas was not a mathematician. [00:30]
asciilifeform it works more like sport. [00:30]
mircea_popescu how old was he of syracuse ? [00:30]
asciilifeform who, archimedes ? [00:30]
mircea_popescu at least five over 50, but sure, archimedes. [00:30]
asciilifeform over 50 << when did the thing they were remembered for ? [00:30]
mircea_popescu archimedes was well over 40 when he proofed that crown/ [00:31]
ben_vulpes felipelalli: are you in assbot's l2? [00:31]
felipelalli ben_vulpes: I hope so. [00:31]
ben_vulpes !gettrust assbot felipelalli [00:31]
mircea_popescu newton was what, 52 ? [00:31]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user felipelalli: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/felipelalli | http://w.b-a.link/user/felipelalli [00:31]
ben_vulpes okay so you try it [00:31]
ben_vulpes deedbot-: [00:31]
asciilifeform thing is, newton's 52 is not the same as american slave's 52 [00:31]
mircea_popescu for the reason i stated! [00:31]
asciilifeform certain kinds of life destroy the mind. [00:31]
felipelalli deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3EAX9QH.txt [00:31]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhzfLl ) [00:31]
deedbot- imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14 [00:31]
ben_vulpes so there ya go [00:32]
felipelalli So, private messages does not work like assbot [00:32]
ben_vulpes ,next [00:32]
mircea_popescu the delusion of "stability' and cultural insularity destroy the mind. [00:32]
ben_vulpes felipelalli: did you prepend with 'deedbot-:' ? [00:32]
felipelalli no [00:32]
felipelalli ah, I got it. [00:32]
asciilifeform actually waking up to alarm clock and sitting in an office guaranteed to destroy, regardless of what else [00:32]
mircea_popescu doubt this matters. [00:32]
asciilifeform destroys body, too [00:32]
mircea_popescu no, that's not it. theknowledge that there's going to be food at the supermarket destroys. [00:33]
felipelalli well, I'm just following wrong instructions! ;) ahhah [00:33]
mircea_popescu the notion that one shouldn't chat up the passing twelve year old, destroys. [00:33]
asciilifeform by this token every hunter-gatherer should be newton [00:33]
felipelalli now I'll try to publish a signed document. [00:33]
ben_vulpes deedbot-: help [00:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform only the unsuccessful ones that yet survive. [00:33]
ben_vulpes felipelalli: well check it out you got help eventually [00:34]
ben_vulpes trinque's a busy man. it'll get hammered into shape...eventually. [00:34]
ben_vulpes "two weeks!" [00:34]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063148 << it was quite excellent. [00:34]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:31:32; pete_dushenski: i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research [00:34]
mircea_popescu mostly because early form of what was later copied by russians. [00:35]
mircea_popescu "monastery" of sorts. [00:35]
asciilifeform so there we go [00:35]
asciilifeform monasteries - work. [00:35]
asciilifeform keeps the narcissomaniacs out, etc. [00:35]
asciilifeform the occasional impalement also helps [00:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform listen, "works" in this context is you saying "so there we go, c works" [00:36]
mircea_popescu sure it works, if you want the suckiest thing that'll still do the job. [00:36]
ben_vulpes catch y'all later. [00:36]
felipelalli deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/21D0Q3X.txt [00:36]
deedbot- rejected: 1 [00:36]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhzWUK ) [00:36]
asciilifeform works in the sense of 'were so l337 that we're still cribbing off their tech notebook and can never hope to match' [00:36]
mircea_popescu not so. [00:36]
mircea_popescu just look at enigma machine to get out of that infatuation. [00:37]
asciilifeform enigma was built by a pole! [00:37]
mircea_popescu look at what they thought radar is. [00:37]
asciilifeform reich had perfectly passable radar [00:37]
mircea_popescu look at the stupid rocket-planor thing. etc. derpy as it gets. [00:37]
asciilifeform did not, iirc, have the klystron though [00:37]
mircea_popescu passable 1!? [00:38]
felipelalli why my doc was rejected? [00:38]
decimation enigma was broken by the poles [00:38]
asciilifeform http://www.ventnorradar.co.uk/Germ.htm [00:38]
assbot German Radar ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhAk5z ) [00:38]
asciilifeform decimation: also designed by a pole [00:38]
asciilifeform in 1920s, iirc [00:38]
asciilifeform as commercial product [00:38]
asciilifeform nothing german about it [00:38]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063179 << there's thirty million helgas out there, get your ass on tinder. [00:38]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2015 23:41:48; pete_dushenski: i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse [00:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nothing but the fact they used it. [00:39]
asciilifeform sure [00:39]
felipelalli ben_vulpes: do you know why my doc was rejected? [00:39]
asciilifeform incidentally none of the allied crypto (other than vernam, aka otp, which was also used in germany) was in any way superior to enigma [00:39]
mircea_popescu at the time. [00:40]
mircea_popescu your statement was, and i quote, ' we're still cribbing off their tech notebook and can never hope to match' [00:40]
asciilifeform ah [00:40]
decimation asciilifeform: no, it was more the fact that turing et.al. had the pole's cryptanalysis to crib off of [00:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes, we're not literally stuck with 1930s tech. for the most part. organic chemistry has not really moved very far since [00:41]
asciilifeform folks are still wearing the same synthetic fibres used in german uniforms, made in same way [00:41]
asciilifeform and so forth [00:41]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063191 << prolly should read http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ and work the examples out by hand. [00:41]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 00:14:17; felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices. [00:41]
assbot How to make money on the Internet while pretending you know what you're talking about and accumulating a legion of mindless followers - for fun and profit! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhALwS ) [00:41]
decimation german acrylic paints [00:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform has moved way far, you kidding ?! organic is more advanced as to what it was in 1930 than computing. [00:41]
mircea_popescu shit, state of the art 1930 plastics was linoleum and ebonite. [00:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: speaking of basic techniques, rather than products [00:42]
mircea_popescu even basic techniques. [00:42]
asciilifeform i'll let PeterL settle this one when he returns [00:42]
mircea_popescu we have mass fucking spectrometers that work! [00:42]
mircea_popescu recall that article about the new antibiotic found in soil sample ? [00:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: interestingly, pretty much nobody used these for the first 20 or so years they existed [00:43]
felipelalli my sister works with mass spectrometers. [00:43]
mircea_popescu cause no computers. [00:43]
mircea_popescu you can'treally use them by hand. [00:43]
asciilifeform because everything they can do, traditional analytic chem can also do [00:43]
mircea_popescu mno. [00:43]
asciilifeform but takes craft [00:43]
mircea_popescu because nobody uses car w/o gasoline. [00:43]
asciilifeform this also [00:43]
asciilifeform but my observation holds [00:43]
felipelalli deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/21D0Q3X.txt [00:44]
deedbot- rejected: 1 [00:44]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkxZfE ) [00:44]
asciilifeform you don't actually -need- gas chromatograph for anything, in the sense of experiment being entirely unworkable without it [00:44]
asciilifeform it merely saves time, effort, skill, cost. [00:44]
asciilifeform ditto mass spec [00:44]
mircea_popescu you don't need rocks for anything either, can just throw your own shit [00:44]
asciilifeform think this way: consider the palpable progress in chemical industry 1900-40 [00:45]
asciilifeform vs 1970-now [00:45]
asciilifeform (lacking spectrometers, etc. vs. having) [00:45]
mircea_popescu and yes experiment is entirely unworkable without it. there's no nazi genome sequence variant. know why ? [00:45]
mircea_popescu there's no nazi fold@home. know why ? [00:45]
mircea_popescu etc. [00:45]
asciilifeform well sure [00:45]
asciilifeform didn't say computer was entirely useless [00:45]
mircea_popescu right. quantity has a quality all of its own. [00:45]
mircea_popescu this, mind, isn't jus comptuer. computer is the adjunct. [00:45]
asciilifeform but going back in archives, i am perpetually astonished at what was accomplished by men who never saw not only computer but plastic bag. [00:46]
decimation the germans had the first programmable electromechanical computer by the way [00:46]
mircea_popescu or zipper. sure. [00:46]
asciilifeform decimation: aha, konrad zuse and 'plankalkule' [00:46]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [00:46]
decimation aye [00:46]
decimation the nazi gov. was too dumb to fund it though, or apply it to obvious uses [00:46]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063202 << check it out, Pierre_Rochard gets the cookie for having asked the right question. i finally understand what felipelalli's usecase actually was. [00:47]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:06:05; felipelalli: Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year. [00:47]
asciilifeform not dumb per se. just thought 'thinkers should have day jobs' [00:47]
mircea_popescu "i live in a shit country, borrowing directly from bezzle is way better than going through local banks" [00:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform let me put it another way, maybe it washes better. [00:48]
mircea_popescu before you get to think you get to have "ideas" you must do sufficient useful work to support yourself with. whether you do it in a year or a decade or over rest of your life, your choice. [00:48]
mircea_popescu but people who can not support self are not fit to think, [00:48]
danielpbarron felipelalli, you're signing with a different key than the one you registered with [00:48]
mircea_popescu much like women that can't cook aren't fit to marry. [00:48]
asciilifeform guess herr zuse didn't know how to both invent first computer -and- self-support [00:48]
asciilifeform so they didn't really need computer. [00:48]
mircea_popescu i am not going to be swayed by examples, for the following reason : of course you're going to lose something. [00:49]
mircea_popescu this is a given : no matter which way you go, you lose something. [00:49]
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* asciilifeform wasn't even trying to sway anyone. but must point out the dismal history. [00:49]
mircea_popescu if you persecute gays, you fuck up turing. if you don't, you end up with that transhumanist singer-songwriter with the turkey hairdo schmuck. [00:49]
asciilifeform l0l [00:50]
mircea_popescu so, this given : i dun care who dun like it, i'd rather have silence than the motherfucking deluge of shit [00:50]
mircea_popescu "with some good things in it" [00:50]
asciilifeform i'll explain what was meant. generally i'm in favour of less arbeit macht frei for everyone. [00:50]
asciilifeform shoot the shit producers, problem solved [00:50]
felipelalli danielpbarron: my company key. I'm sorry! [00:51]
mircea_popescu the men holding the rifles work on z80s. [00:51]
mircea_popescu nice find dpb. [00:51]
asciilifeform i don't see the inevitable dichotomy between 'world flooded with shit' and 'arbeit macht frei' [00:51]
mircea_popescu maybe you have a point there. [00:51]
mircea_popescu fortunately, i am not in a position to make this call. for which i am thankful. [00:52]
asciilifeform to put it from own perspective, i'm not sure what serenissima wins from me spending most of every day working with winblows virii [00:52]
danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-01-2015#994371 << nope :D [00:52]
assbot Logged on 28-01-2015 00:52:58; asciilifeform: and am i the only one who actually checks sigs [00:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform at least formally this irritates me, because it's the ancient "la ce-mi serveste mie radicalurile" sophomore complaint. [00:52]
asciilifeform what was this [00:52]
mircea_popescu how the fuck should i know, and what difference does it make you don't. [00:53]
asciilifeform (i can guess) [00:53]
mircea_popescu "what's the use of square rooting to me!" [00:53]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2011/la-ce-imi-serveste-mie-radicalurile/ [00:53]
assbot La ce imi serveste mie radicalurile ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhDerd ) [00:53]
asciilifeform square rooting, though, i can entirely see [00:53]
asciilifeform let's focus on interesting people for a moment. kepler, say. spent a good chunk of his time at day job - astrology. [00:54]
mircea_popescu the burning question, however, is why do you think your seeing is the pivot of this matter. [00:54]
mircea_popescu let me tell you a story, put this into perspective. [00:54]
asciilifeform this is why trying to show more objective example [00:54]
mircea_popescu at my day job, i am a manager. it's what i do. or used to, b. b., but w/e. [00:55]
asciilifeform we don't win from kepler's day job [00:55]
mircea_popescu if an underlying comes to me with "here's the problem, what should we do", i fire him. [00:55]
mircea_popescu the proper form is, "here's the problem, here are 3 solutions, which do we pick", and he should fucking know this by now. [00:55]
mircea_popescu it would seem to me you are managing like an illusionist not like a manager, which is to say, comparing with some sort of null hypothesis / god's footsteps / whatever. [00:56]
mircea_popescu this is just not how things work. [00:56]
felipelalli deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/2VN28A5.txt [00:56]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [00:56]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkzSsE ) [00:56]
trinque hey lookie there [00:56]
felipelalli wow, this is perfect. [00:56]
trinque did it all by himself [00:56]
* mircea_popescu waves at trinque [00:56]
trinque holy fuck I step away for a minute :D [00:56]
trinque sup guys [00:56]
asciilifeform wasn't trying to describe a management method, but simply banal observation that kepler's day job (forget mine) is to be counted on the -sad- part of the ledger [00:56]
* assbot removes voice from deedbot- [00:56]
mircea_popescu but this is a management discussion. [00:57]
trinque felipelalli: bad sig before? [00:57]
danielpbarron "I love ass channel. Ditto." << the deeded message btw [00:57]
mircea_popescu "what should do" is management just like "what voltage" is e e. [00:57]
felipelalli trinque: I forgot to use -u ED5CDE14 [00:57]
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trinque felipelalli: that will do it. [00:57]
felipelalli and it was using my company's key Walltime [00:57]
trinque no problemo, glad it worked for ya [00:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how much irrelevant drudgery is the right amount? would we have more newtoniana if he had broken rocks at butugychag for p % of his day ? [00:57]
mircea_popescu trinque e) any url! [00:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform why do you expect this to be knowable! [00:58]
mircea_popescu think in terms of women, easier to think. "is this the right woman for me, for my life ?" [00:58]
asciilifeform i say 0. but mircea_popescu, i think, says p is a positive integer [00:58]
mircea_popescu wtf sort of inquiry is this! [00:58]
felipelalli the doc was accepted, but and now? [00:58]
trinque pastebin is not banned [00:58]
trinque raw urls [00:58]
mircea_popescu aha kk. [00:58]
mircea_popescu could i get trilema.com/deed.txt accepted ? [00:58]
trinque consider, the page has shitloads of html, is not raw text... [00:58]
trinque mircea_popescu: yeah np [00:58]
mircea_popescu ah coolness. [00:59]
mircea_popescu well, back to your launch lol. [00:59]
trinque launch is ready! [00:59]
trinque week early, one man band [00:59]
trinque hair almost still intact [00:59]
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felipelalli trinque: now deedbot- will contact me sending the URL to blockchain published doc? [00:59]
trinque felipelalli: heh no, I will. [01:00]
mircea_popescu lol [01:00]
decimation mpi-fg-koeln.mpg.de/pu/mpifg_book/mpifg_bd_36.pdf > " Einen Antrag zur Förderung einer elektronischen Nachfolgeversion der Z-3, den sein Mit- arbeiter Elektroingenieur Helmut Schreyer stellte, lehnte die deutsche Reichsregierung als »nicht kriegswichtig« ab (Petzold 1985: 316). " They tried to get the nazi gov to pay for the advancement of the Z-3, but it was deemed "not war-worthy" [01:00]
trinque felipelalli: shall be at deedbot.org in 5min+next_block [01:00]
felipelalli trinque: are you the dwarf behind him, han? :) [01:00]
asciilifeform decimation: i'm not certain they were wrong [01:00]
trinque felipelalli: I'll have you know I am of middling height! [01:01]
mircea_popescu in the end, the z's were not really useful past psychology, were they ? [01:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you mean the v-s? [01:01]
felipelalli !rate trinque 1 "the dwarf behind deedbot" [01:01]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e23f5164e2b13006 [01:01]
mircea_popescu ah yes, the v's. [01:01]
mircea_popescu da fuck is z-3 ?! [01:01]
trinque felipelalli: lol [01:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: zuse's computer [01:01]
decimation zuse's computer [01:01]
mircea_popescu ah nm me. [01:02]
asciilifeform built out of phone exchange relays, in his mother's kitchen, iirc [01:02]
decimation it was electromechanical, not purely electric [01:02]
mircea_popescu right, referenced above, exactly. i lost a thread. [01:02]
asciilifeform ;;google plankalkül [01:02]
gribble Plankalkül - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Plankalkul | computer language | Encyclopedia Britannica: ; Konrad Zuse - ACM Digital Library: [01:02]
decimation as I recall, colossus was the first fully electric computer, built by Flowers at the proto-gchq [01:02]
asciilifeform not fully electric [01:03]
asciilifeform had paper roll. [01:03]
felipelalli trinque: why only 6 docs? Is that a new service, isn't it used that much or it is only the current day? [01:03]
decimation aye, I linked a movie of a replica running earlier, will dig it up. I saw it in person actually, was quite impressive [01:04]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063215 <<< note the important takeaway here. nothing keeps people in other places with shit banks from being intelligent, getting in wot, becoming part of the actual bitcoin marketplace. there's people here from all over the world. over time, a low effort / consumer thing like btcjam HAS TO devolve into the typical check advance / spam loan operation. [01:04]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:26:33; felipelalli: and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you. [01:04]
trinque felipelalli: there was a previous iteration which I will soon dump the history into the present incarnation [01:04]
mircea_popescu there are market forces pushing things certain ways and into certain niches, invisible hand and al lthat. [01:04]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063235 << there really isn't much requirement to speak any particular language or anything. [01:06]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:50:53; PeterL: do the speak english? [01:06]
mircea_popescu the beauty of the wot system is that it readily fragments, and whoever bridges bridges. [01:07]
mircea_popescu felipelalli has the opportunity to become a sort of speaker for the dead as it were, for a certain set of dead. [01:07]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063240 << actually, yes, i do. do you understand why they did that ? [01:08]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 01:52:03; felipelalli: But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different. [01:08]
felipelalli lol mircea_popescu [01:09]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: no, may I know why? [01:10]
mircea_popescu well yes : suppose they have 500 users, which is about where intel puts it. [01:10]
mircea_popescu now, out of those 500, there's like ... 2 ike you. your "wot added value" is say 10 each. [01:10]
mircea_popescu there's another 48 dudes who are kinda derpy but still useful, their avg "wot added value is 1 each. [01:11]
mircea_popescu that's it. the 500 sums up to 70 value. [01:11]
mircea_popescu if they change it like they did, willy nilly it's 0.02 per, which comes to... 100. which is more. [01:11]
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mircea_popescu in short : you were so diluted by idiots you didn't even realise your sum total human effort was worth less than a systematic, spammy approach to things. [01:12]
mircea_popescu sure, to you going from 10 to 0.2 is a terrible loss. [01:12]
mircea_popescu but for them, going from a 70 aggregate to a 100 aggregate is a net gain. [01:12]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: well thought out. [01:12]
mircea_popescu and so then you leave, and so they lost like, one of the two guys that actually did something, and that's the end of it. [01:13]
mircea_popescu which, again, is why things go certain ways, invisible hand and all that. [01:13]
mircea_popescu economics is not fanfiction. [01:13]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: amazing reasoning. [01:13]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:13]
mircea_popescu visible across the whole spectrum, how do you think myspace went from selling for a billion to turner to selling for 18 mn or w/e it sold off to. [01:14]
mircea_popescu and this is incidentally why i said earlier that they are not a business in the first place. it doesn't fucking matter what "others think". others don'tthink, others bray. thinking is above. and the thinking is, it takes two days for them to lose half the userbase that matters. [01:15]
mircea_popescu this is not a business. [01:15]
mircea_popescu it's an accident, and from the equity perspective, it's a disaster waiting to happen. [01:15]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: it is a pitty because it was (a kind of - or has potential to be) useful. [01:16]
felipelalli *pity [01:17]
mircea_popescu yeah well... [01:17]
mircea_popescu anyway, as to the interest rates, there was a discussion recently, and no, business rates aren't per month, you want to pay what, 3ish% a year or some shit. [01:18]
felipelalli this what they call APR [01:18]
decimation the 10 year treasuries are just under 2% in usd [01:18]
mircea_popescu apr is a consumer concept. [01:19]
decimation this tends to be a benchmark for those who are fronting money for business [01:19]
mircea_popescu we're talking corporate debentures here. [01:19]
felipelalli but in Brazil we are used to use per month. Maybe because per year would be ridiculous huge. [01:19]
mircea_popescu well also because your country just collapsed [01:19]
mircea_popescu for the howeverth time. [01:19]
decimation people do business in loans per month? [01:19]
felipelalli yes [01:19]
mircea_popescu decimation you seen that btw ? delma found herself with like 2mn people in the capital. [01:19]
mircea_popescu decimation yes, people in africa, basically. [01:19]
felipelalli in Brazil too [01:20]
decimation was it a march for equality [01:20]
felipelalli BTCJam CEO is a Brazilian by the way [01:20]
mircea_popescu something like that, yeah. fucking scary by the looks of it. [01:20]
trinque felipelalli: http://deedbot.org/348645-15v9VrTNUA1oRzpv3u5b9DyPJqnn14RycR.txt << ding! [01:20]
felipelalli friend of a personal close friend. [01:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkDT0d ) [01:20]
trinque I too... love ass channel. [01:20]
mircea_popescu i was like o.O woman's getting beheaded. [01:20]
felipelalli trinque: thank you! I thought you are kidding when you said YOU would send me! :) [01:21]
mircea_popescu i think undata's going for that whole "manic customer support" angle. [01:21]
mircea_popescu buncha sv hipsters. [01:21]
danielpbarron felipelalli, here's the tx 86010f67d16fb690be5a9682403c5a49adccf496ae8e3c0a756a1351993e9bca [01:21]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: why bitcoin is so undervalued? [01:21]
decimation lol she was an actual communist rebel [01:21]
felipelalli any thoughts about that? [01:22]
decimation basically the dead hand of su derping around the americas [01:22]
mircea_popescu decimation one that got pretty well corrupted at the petrobras trough [01:22]
decimation well, the irony is that obama is a product of the other side [01:22]
trinque mircea_popescu: haha, fuck the valley; I'd rather be here. [01:22]
mircea_popescu anyway, brazil's actually in a better position in sa than the us is in na. [01:23]
trinque felipelalli: I'll have the rest of the lever-pulling automated before long [01:23]
mircea_popescu if they pack it and leave everyone else's reduced to hunting wooly mamooths with bows and arrows. [01:23]
felipelalli trinque: nice!! [01:23]
* asciilifeform associates brazil primarily with spam and poorly written virii [01:24]
asciilifeform and ocelots. [01:24]
mircea_popescu nah, it's an industrial powerhouse. [01:24]
* asciilifeform knows this. theoretically. [01:25]
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mircea_popescu of course, exactly how the color revolution's gonna go... [01:25]
mircea_popescu i dun think dept of state's too happy about it. [01:25]
decimation yeah they have been coloring red for the past decade [01:25]
felipelalli guess who I am: https://plus.google.com/+FelipeMicaroniLalliFML/posts/1LJVP7mk6wH [01:26]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1OkEDmi ) [01:26]
decimation outflanking usg from the left is a common pattern worldwide [01:26]
asciilifeform felipelalli: the one whose sign levitates ? [01:26]
felipelalli AHHAHA [01:26]
felipelalli all sign levitates actually [01:27]
felipelalli this happened in protests here in Brazil [01:28]
trinque felipelalli: what do you think of the water situation there? [01:28]
felipelalli trinque: not a problem at all. [01:28]
felipelalli trinque: not a real problem, I guess. [01:29]
decimation mises & hayek were (classical) liberal statists in the final analysis [01:29]
trinque felipelalli: interesting, just news hysteria? [01:29]
felipelalli decimation: I know. That sign of Mises was not mine. [01:29]
decimation I think there were a few trilema posts on this point [01:29]
felipelalli The mine was about Bitcoin :) [01:29]
felipelalli trinque: gov control I guess [01:30]
decimation nevertheless, I'd have a beer with the guy :) [01:30]
felipelalli they can blame the people: "you are wasting water" [01:31]
felipelalli If I am not wrong, I sent an email to mircea_popescu asking his political position, or I regret to send. [01:32]
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decimation !up huseby [01:42]
* assbot gives voice to huseby [01:42]
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* mircea_popescu doesn't really do this entire private thing. ask him here, it's what the here is for after all. [01:59]
mircea_popescu unrelatedly, water : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l36by2AEsD1qz7ltxo1_1280.jpg [02:00]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FnoZnx ) [02:00]
cazalla looks a bit like natalie portman [02:08]
mircea_popescu not the throat tho [02:09]
* assbot removes voice from huseby [02:13]
felipelalli mircea_popescu: ok! :-) So, what is your political position, if you want to say about that. [02:18]
mircea_popescu political how ? [02:21]
mircea_popescu i've been saying plenty about it, here and on the blog [02:21]
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felipelalli mircea_popescu: that's why I regret to send, now I remember!! ahahhah I knew you would say that. [02:25]
felipelalli political for me is: is statist. is not. [02:27]
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mircea_popescu o.O [02:32]
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felipelalli This was funny: http://imgur.com/ICidotc did you see that? [02:35]
assbot Still waiting for.... - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/19cBNi9 ) [02:35]
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mircea_popescu I downloaded all five seasons of The Wire from The Pirate Bay [02:59]
mircea_popescu And studied all their OPSEC and legalities of what to say [02:59]
mircea_popescu ok that thing's epic. [02:59]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [15:18]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [15:18]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [15:18]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [15:18]
ben_vulpes mon dieu [15:19]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [15:19]
mircea_popescu btw, about the fat thread : http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/fat.png [15:25]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgbXXj ) [15:25]
mircea_popescu i knew i had it somewhere, but forgot where. [15:25]
mircea_popescu an' nao brb writing an article. [15:25]
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decimation jurov: Luther has many great writings. Unfortunately most of those who belong to churches that he founded have tended to overlook his writings [16:18]
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decimation cazalla: The Wire is a pretty good take on how life in the 'big city' works in the us - and its bureaucracy [16:20]
decimation it's not strictly historical but the main author was a journalist who covered the baltimore police for a long time [16:21]
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funkenstein_ got my mycelium stuxnet entropy in the mail yesterday [16:33]
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mircea_popescu !up fhiejeurjjurru [16:34]
* assbot gives voice to fhiejeurjjurru [16:34]
fhiejeurjjurru Whats up [16:34]
funkenstein_ came with a free difficult to decipher t-shirt that says "entropy this ease freedom" [16:34]
funkenstein_ apparently grammar too restrictive [16:35]
fhiejeurjjurru Yo yo yop [16:43]
fhiejeurjjurru Whats up everyone [16:43]
mircea_popescu who're you, randomname ? [16:43]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron hey, mind writing a "for total noobs" guide for deedbot in the b-a wiki ? [16:45]
mircea_popescu i intend to use it for the eulora new accounts process, and well... [16:45]
fhiejeurjjurru Yo [16:49]
fhiejeurjjurru Yo [16:52]
fhiejeurjjurru Whats up everyone [16:52]
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mircea_popescu !down fhiejeurjjurru [16:54]
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mircea_popescu greeting scripts nao ffs. [16:54]
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scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/more-problems-of-meta/ [16:58]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064023 << lollerblades! [17:22]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 09:18:50; trinque: I think we just solved it, representative democracy is a trauma I can no longer acknowledge exists [17:22]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064041 << jamaica IS unbearable, and way under marakesh level. [17:23]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 13:57:41; nubbins`: 'cause if that's the case, jamaica must be *unbearable* [17:23]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064049 << ahahahaha fu nubbs! [17:24]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 14:05:31; nubbins`: the only reason MP gets away with being a prick is because his articles are circuitous enough that it's not worth the effort to construct counter-arguments [17:24]
mircea_popescu "While the collection has not been officially valued, reports in the French and international press have estimated that it could be worth as much as 120 million euros, or about $130 million." [17:31]
mircea_popescu gtfo, 300 pieces for under half a million on average ? [17:31]
mircea_popescu what is this, the 70s ? [17:31]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064071 << oh certainly. [17:35]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:17:10; asciilifeform: re: picasso article: i can easily imagine a 'Dark Future of Hello Kitty' (TM) where a plebe found with ten fifty is prosecuted because 'he could only have obtained them by stealing from j.p.morgan, stop telling lies, there's no other way' [17:35]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064076 << the problem is they didn't have title. [17:35]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:28:24; asciilifeform: because 'prove you didn't steal it' if you aren't one [17:35]
mircea_popescu gifts are nice and good but for unperishables it is always a good idea to obtain a piece of paper too. any golddigger knows this. [17:36]
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ben_vulpes how does title to bitcoins work? [17:44]
ben_vulpes is the private key not adequate title? [17:44]
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mircea_popescu nope. [17:49]
mircea_popescu no one has any title to any bitcoin. [17:49]
decimation in the us title to personal property is rarely documented (outside of automobiles) [17:50]
mircea_popescu obv, fake title will be constructed by convention, but hey. not unlike saying "the moon belongs to X" [17:50]
mircea_popescu decimation valuable art is not "personal property" [17:50]
decimation well, it isn't real property [17:51]
thestringpuller is it just me or does this tank look ghetto: http://i.imgur.com/KTwWOdk.jpg [17:52]
decimation certainly some signed document that says "I bequeath X to Y" would be helpful in any reasonable court [17:52]
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mircea_popescu it is real property, of course it is. [17:54]
mircea_popescu how not ? [17:54]
mircea_popescu it has its own variant of torens title and everything. [17:54]
decimation it's mobile? [17:54]
mircea_popescu so ? [17:54]
mircea_popescu that's just shorthand, "oh, real estate is that estate which can not move" [17:55]
mircea_popescu real estate is that estate which is identifiable in itself, rather than by its characteristics. [17:55]
mircea_popescu that's why if i steal your house i am ordered to give you back ~your house~ but if i steal your bottle of beer i am ordered to pay you for a beer. [17:56]
decimation I think this might be a difference between common and continental law [17:56]
mircea_popescu very much doubt it, seeing how the above is at common law. [17:56]
mircea_popescu the remedies available distinguish the nature of property, and the remedies for chattels (your "personal" property) are of same value, because chattels are fungible. [17:57]
mircea_popescu castles and drawings by picasso are not fungible. [17:57]
thestringpuller http://www.zdnet.com/article/intel-pc-sales-weak-as-many-businesses-stick-with-windows-xp/ [17:59]
decimation http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1727 < I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the term 'real property' is that it only includes the land and immovable improvements [18:00]
assbot Legal Dictionary | Law.com [18:00]
thestringpuller http://i.imgur.com/i0jvyiv.gifv << This kid has his priorities straight. [18:01]
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mircea_popescu decimation always see the actual source. http://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=458-12-010 [18:04]
assbot WAC 458-12-010: Definition—Property—Real. [18:04]
mircea_popescu take for instance "(7) Standing timber growing on land which belongs to the same person as the timber." [18:04]
mircea_popescu certainly movable. [18:04]
mircea_popescu and so are titles of various kinds - such as to mineral rights, or whatever. [18:06]
mircea_popescu it's not usually made much of, but the sensible way to take stuff like famous artpieces is exactly real estate. [18:06]
decimation well, I agree that it would make sense to do things that way [18:06]
decimation the us legal system isn't famous for making much sense [18:07]
decimation for instance, hardly any jurisdictions use 'torrens title' [18:07]
decimation it is standard practice to pay third parties to 'insure' the title chain is 'clean' [18:07]
mircea_popescu sure. [18:07]
mircea_popescu but anyway, if one wishes to avoid the sort of problem those giftees faced... get title with the gift. [18:08]
decimation aye, a receipt of some kind would be handy to avoid exactly this. even for bitcoin, if you plan on arguing in front of a 'legacy' judge [18:08]
mircea_popescu no. [18:10]
mircea_popescu for bitcoin it does not work, because no one has any title. [18:10]
mircea_popescu picasso himself did have title to his own paintings, and so he could transmit title to them. [18:10]
mircea_popescu but there isn't someoine with title to bitcoin (other than, arguably, satoshi, which is WHY his disappearance is so important) [18:11]
mircea_popescu and since one can't give what one does not have, it then follows that one can't actually give bitcoin. [18:11]
mircea_popescu (the usg will readily dispute this claiming they actually DO have title to bitcoin they confiscate, and then create chain of title from there. this argument is illogical). [18:11]
decimation but logic is hardly the foundation of states, rather brazen claims of possession. [18:13]
mircea_popescu sure, but as far as brazen claims go they could also claim your wife. [18:14]
mircea_popescu god knows they already claim your children. [18:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2012/gpg-contracts/#comment-113239 << check that one out. [18:14]
assbot GPG contracts pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLGZHz ) [18:14]
thestringpuller looks like that tracks from qntra [18:16]
thestringpuller interesting [18:16]
mircea_popescu it does ? [18:16]
mircea_popescu http://nap.univacc.net/ << lulz of all fucking time, incidentally. [18:17]
assbot NAP: The Non-Aggression Principle ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLHmSt ) [18:17]
mircea_popescu "It is possible to construct a rational argument, from broadly agreeable premises, that leads directly to the NAP." is a direct equivalent to "i can prove that blue eyes are what god intended" [18:17]
thestringpuller looks like it, not that it actually does. There is a links from recent qntra article same date as comment that links to GPG contract article on trilema. [18:18]
mircea_popescu " While the Non-Aggression Principle does not have anything direct to say about the legitimacy of retaliation" << entirely spurious distinction. there's no logical difference between "retaliation" and "initiation" [18:18]
mircea_popescu de novo acts are not in fact possible. [18:18]
mircea_popescu once innovation is admitted as an arbitrary construct, well... it's a political matter. [18:18]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller you mean today ? [18:19]
thestringpuller yes [18:19]
thestringpuller 3/22 [18:19]
decimation there's a libertarian fantasy world where humans are required 'play nice' because of some kind of rationalist first-principle [18:19]
mircea_popescu makes sense then [18:19]
mircea_popescu decimation yes but it's bunko through and through. [18:19]
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mircea_popescu anyway, there's the flag. mebbe some intellectual leadership of that movement whatever it may be sees it, feels equal to the task of representing their ideas in front of the world rather than in some carefully constructed echo chamber and comes prove it. [18:20]
mircea_popescu feel free to distribute teh log links to your friends. [18:20]
mircea_popescu jurov the guy with the bad harry potter fanfic ? [18:21]
jurov yes, that. [18:21]
mircea_popescu your phrasing gave it away :p [18:21]
decimation heh yeah [18:21]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: when I first joined this channel at the collapse of GLBSE you said, "Scammers just help the legitimate businesses' reputation that much more." My friend this past year went on to say, "In the new world, the most trusted person need not to be liked, because well he's trustworthy. He/She could be a complete asshole if as long as they do their job." [18:21]
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thestringpuller so i've gone on to realize that the redditard mentality of "I don't like this person == I don't trust this person" is completely false on all accounts. [18:23]
thestringpuller Perhaps within politics gettings someone to "like your platform" is moot altogether. [18:23]
fluffypony thestringpuller the easiest way to understand why that mentality fails is to state the inverse [18:27]
fluffypony "I like this person == I trust this person" [18:27]
fluffypony most con artists are very likeable [18:28]
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fluffypony and most of the people I would trust to keep my money for me are...well..not likeable at all [18:28]
fluffypony which is the point :-P [18:28]
mircea_popescu the entire "like/dislike" process as practiced by esl people atm is due for some reform. [18:28]
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thestringpuller which reform? [18:28]
mircea_popescu recall that idiot that was droning on about how he "didn;t like" some local woman because "she was racist" ? [18:28]
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mircea_popescu well... that's not how it works. [18:28]
fluffypony lol [18:29]
mircea_popescu the group of people who think they like tgi tuesdays because X cultural reasons, irrespective of the food, [18:29]
mircea_popescu they can't really survive in the wild. [18:29]
thestringpuller well this is primal no? D00d is stranded on island and has to kill for food. Hasn't killed before, so choice is: kill or die. [18:30]
mircea_popescu ok... ? [18:30]
mircea_popescu how about stranded on island, east half of which is constantly flooded, all esl-ians gather there because "it looks just like the bay area, man!" [18:30]
mircea_popescu how the "bay area" looks is really not all that important. [18:31]
mircea_popescu the various cultural conventions of stupid, while the leading heuristic leading the stupid, aren't really all that important on their own either. [18:31]
mircea_popescu fluffypony generally, the thing there is that people who are trustworthy are uncompromising, and people who are popular are very, VERY compromising. [18:32]
fluffypony mircea_popescu: spot on [18:32]
mircea_popescu so perfectly likeable folk (if you're sane) will look like total assholes (to idiots). [18:32]
mircea_popescu which idiots then go on to "really trust the brick and mortar neobee" and well.. [18:32]
thestringpuller it's a sickness to say the least. [18:33]
mircea_popescu but likeable != popular, nor are the applause of the mob worth anything nowadays, like they weren't worth anything when cicero walked the earth [18:33]
mircea_popescu and so here we go, " people with a pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy (e.g. API and UI design)" [18:34]
decimation was that a slight at the gpg maintainers or stallman? [18:34]
mircea_popescu well, i readily grant gpg is pure shit. [18:34]
mircea_popescu just, manure, as george observed, is almost pleasant if you get down to it : there's a pg, which isn't bad, with a gnu in front of it. [18:34]
mircea_popescu at least it's not out and out systempoison. [18:35]
decimation dignork: the fucked-upness of the "current system" doesn't justify appealing to some bit of dubious reasoning [18:35]
mircea_popescu decimation i think his point stands tho, rothbard never said it, and what idiots trying to be "rothbardian" understood of it all isn't really relevant. [18:36]
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* mircea_popescu shudders at the thourght of "true trilemians" long after his death doing really stupid shit. [18:36]
decimation heh. reminds me of the 'museum fremen' [18:36]
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mircea_popescu go to cairo, plenty of "museum arabs" irl. [18:37]
mircea_popescu or at least, were, during mubarak days. [18:37]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: which idiots then go on to "really trust the... << I was always taught never to make a business decision out of emotion. Making a business decision based on "liking someone" fits this methinks. [18:37]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller now turn that on its head : business decisions without human heuristic can't beat adlai's scalpl. [18:38]
mircea_popescu by definition. [18:38]
chetty yeah that gut instinct thing still counts [18:38]
thestringpuller ah, i was about to ask that. "The Gut" [18:38]
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nubbins` asciilifeform sorry, your book can't be bound in sealskin anymore ;/ [18:41]
nubbins` http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/corner-brook-woman-s-sealskin-purse-seized-at-u-s-border-1.3004760 [18:41]
assbot Corner Brook woman's sealskin purse seized at U.S. border - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLKU7s ) [18:41]
mircea_popescu lmao [18:41]
decimation nubbins`: was she an eskimo or whatever [18:41]
mircea_popescu yet somehow this ain't making the news. "hey, more shit you're not good enough to have!" not really interesting to anyone. [18:42]
funkenstein_ border fascists can take anything [18:42]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2015/03/openssl-severe-vulnerability-to-be-revealed-march-19th/ << anything came of this btw ? [18:43]
assbot OpenSSL Severe Vulnerability to be Revealed March 19th | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLLamQ ) [18:43]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ i fully expect it will eventually be illegal to wear leather, natural fibers, etc. everyone must plastic! [18:43]
mircea_popescu i suppose it's when i start shooting. [18:43]
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decimation when did the crazy fur nazis start making usg border policy? [18:44]
funkenstein_ i back you up [18:44]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Just some Denial of service stuff. The LibreSSL fork was only affected by 5 or so of the 13 or 14 vulnerabilities [18:44]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo imo after an article like that must make update "here's what it was" [18:44]
mircea_popescu sorta reads like a promise to keep reader updateds. [18:44]
mircea_popescu !up execut3 [18:44]
-assbot- You voiced execut3 for 30 minutes. [18:44]
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funkenstein_ but my legal advice reminds me border forces are basically above the law [18:45]
mircea_popescu decimation 80s or so ? [18:45]
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mircea_popescu !up execut3 [18:45]
-assbot- You voiced execut3 for 30 minutes. [18:45]
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BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Will do in a bit [18:47]
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thestringpuller !up ascii_modem [18:49]
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nubbins` funkenstein_ +1 [18:49]
ascii_modem ssl vuln << yes; check log [18:49]
nubbins` ;;dict basically [18:49]
gribble wn: basically adv 1: in essence; at bottom or by one's (or its) very nature; "He is basically dishonest"; "the argument was essentially a technical one"; "for all his bluster he is in essence a shy person" [syn: {basically}, {fundamentally}, {essentially}] [18:49]
nubbins` contrast with colloquial defn: "sorta" [18:50]
nubbins` for further reading on why i won't mail one: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/extradition-order-issued-for-pot-activist-emery-1.878376 [18:50]
danielpbarron mircea_popescu> danielpbarron hey, mind writing a "for total noobs" guide for deedbot in the b-a wiki ? << i can do that [18:50]
assbot Extradition order issued for pot activist Emery - British Columbia - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLM9Ds ) [18:50]
ascii_modem it was a mindfuck. bunch of possibly remoteexec vulns and no real scandal followed [18:50]
mircea_popescu ascii_modem aha [18:51]
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trinque danielpbarron: I am mobile atm but can answer questions. [18:52]
trinque back at puter shortly [18:52]
danielpbarron i'm also mobile atm [18:52]
ascii_modem openssl phasetransitioned to the place where winblows lives [18:52]
ascii_modem where nobody gives a phuq [18:52]
decimation 'spiritual winblows' [18:52]
B0g4r7 badon Bagels7 BananaLotus beetcoin Belxjander ben_vulpes BigBitz BingoBoingo bitspill bitstein BlueMatt bounce [18:53]
mircea_popescu ascii_modem im curious how BingoBoingo's update reads is all :) [18:53]
decimation I can see why linus was pissy about the pr given to 'security bugs' [18:54]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064084 << the complaint is not that it's illogical, but that the desire of the convicted felon to stab the guards must not succeed and should not succeed. [18:54]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:56:21; asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz. [18:54]
ascii_modem linus was right re: turdcode being all across everything [18:55]
nubbins` "the 1972 U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act. The act categorically bans "imports or sales of all marine mammal products", regardless of the conservation status of the animal" [18:56]
decimation ascii_modem: yeah, the problem with the security 'pr' releases is the implication is that once they are 'fixed' everything is great! [18:56]
nubbins` mp wasn't joking re: more shit you're not good enough to have [18:57]
mircea_popescu mp doesn't joke half the times he gets credit for. [18:57]
nubbins` ^ [18:57]
ascii_modem import live and shoot stateside, skin. [18:57]
nubbins` as if /that's/ allowed [18:57]
nubbins` barely get away with it here [18:57]
ascii_modem but border guard doesnt autocatch then. [18:58]
nubbins` doesn't autocatch a /live seal/? [18:58]
ascii_modem live may be legal? ianal [18:58]
nubbins` you'd measure the forms in inches, not pages [18:59]
decimation wait for one to present itself at the coast? [18:59]
nubbins` given the rate at which melting sea ice from imaginary climate change is shrinking polar bear populations, which are one of the only things keeping seal populations in check... [19:00]
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nubbins` you're probably 20 years away from actually seeing above [19:00]
mircea_popescu nah, seals don't like warm shores. [19:00]
nubbins` nor do they like starving [19:01]
decimation http://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/eat-at-dougs/Content?oid=2260720 < related "Jim and Bub watched each other, smirking. Ultimately, Bub couldn't keep quiet anymore. "Mr. Billman, you're about to tear into a 100-percent, grade-A, free-range, Florida-raised dugong steak." "Dugong?" I asked."Manatee." " [19:02]
assbot Eat at Doug's | News | Orlando Weekly ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLNEle ) [19:02]
mircea_popescu but anytway, yes, all the "ecology" and "protection" legislation in the us has exactly nothing to do with anything but "you plebs, off to your gruel". it's copied exactly off the forest laws of medieval england [19:02]
nubbins` you can buy seal burgers at restaurants here occasionally [19:02]
nubbins` flipper pie, w/e [19:03]
mircea_popescu (and no, forest does not mean "heavily wooded", it means "set aside from common law, at the disposition of the king". much like "real estate" does not mean "thick withj buildings") [19:03]
mircea_popescu ie, it comes from latin foris. [19:03]
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nubbins` people *love* sealskin boots, purses, hats, etc [19:04]
nubbins` generally very silly looking [19:04]
decimation http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4122800.stm [19:04]
assbot BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Japan puts whale burger on menu ... ( http://bit.ly/1DLNWsg ) [19:04]
mircea_popescu nubbins` yeah, actual people. not usians tho. usians hate them, as they should. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064084 [19:04]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 16:56:21; asciilifeform: is it any wonder, given this picture, that homo redditicus wishes to mangle hierarchy, even if it nukes civilization? it seems as logical as wishing to stab the guards, given the chance, when you're imprisoned in auschwitz. [19:04]
nubbins` bbl musique! [19:07]
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funkenstein_ decimation, research purposes? [19:08]
mircea_popescu nah, they actually eat them, but have for > 30 years claimed their whalers are "researchers" [19:09]
funkenstein_ motherfuckers make me want to do a little research of my own [19:15]
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mircea_popescu i dunno, whale's not all that great. [19:17]
thestringpuller http://onehouressays.com/ [19:22]
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decimation re: it's more the principle of the matter. japan wants to assert that japan, and not usg, make japan policy [19:49]
decimation this is obviously silly [19:49]
mircea_popescu not so obvious. [19:49]
decimation isn't japan wholly dependent on the us for defense? [19:51]
mircea_popescu and if the wife is fully dependent on husband for sustenance this means what, that she doesn't fuck whoever she pleases ? [20:03]
mircea_popescu naive view. [20:04]
trinque seems like the self-defense force has been pushing for an open relationship gradually over the years [20:04]
mircea_popescu moreover... "Defense". defense from whom ? clearly it can't rely on the us to defend it from the us, an' so... [20:05]
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thestringpuller http://www.coinbuzz.com/2015/03/22/bitproof-whiz-kid-looking-for-business-niche/ [20:15]
trinque "whiz kid" ... "demo day" ... ah god :P [20:16]
trinque wtf is this deedbot? [20:17]
trinque guys where is my 5mil in VC cheese for deedbot?! [20:17]
decimation mircea_popescu: an' so... master and man? [20:18]
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mircea_popescu lol [20:19]
ben_vulpes trinque: slaves to the wot [20:27]
thestringpuller https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/579642765769867266 << the undead continues [20:28]
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funkenstein_ third wheel solutions [20:34]
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mircea_popescu thestringpuller so many whizz kidz, so little whizz chezz... [20:37]
* mircea_popescu tries to even remember who these were, memory fails. [20:38]
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trinque w+ w+ Solutions [20:44]
trinque the imitation never ends [20:44]
BingoBoingo scoopbot -fetch [20:47]
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jurov scoopbot -dropdead [20:52]
scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/march-19th-openssl-vulnerabilities-overview/ [20:52]
jurov ha! [20:52]
BingoBoingo jurov's got the magic command [20:53]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [21:15]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [21:15]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [21:15]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [21:15]
asciilifeform decimation: meaningless without state as far as i can see [21:15]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [21:16]
asciilifeform not necessarily the modern totalitarian monstrosity. but state in some form [21:16]
asciilifeform or at least a coalition of folks who are able to penalize you for violating the title (could wot do this? possibly) [21:16]
* asciilifeform not expert on the practical mechanics of electric feudalism [21:17]
decimation heh. [21:17]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1064364 << constructive title. [21:18]
assbot Logged on 22-03-2015 23:54:57; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is they didn't have title << does a suitcase full of benjies have 'title' ? or a tonne of gold bar? or not because fungible [21:18]
mircea_popescu which is why the whole "confiscated cash in drug bust" thing. [21:18]
mircea_popescu note that i'm not saying anything about what's useful, merely going through how the logic of that thing works. [21:19]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i always read it as 'plebe may not possess allocatory capital tokens' thing [21:19]
asciilifeform (which a sufficiently heavy bag of benjies would in principle be) [21:19]
mircea_popescu well, you can read it any way you want, but legally, it flows from "title is title, if you don't have title you may use constructive title (possession is 9/10 of the law and all that), except so and so" [21:20]
asciilifeform was picasso listed as an 'except so' ? [21:20]
* asciilifeform ianal [21:20]
mircea_popescu "except so and so" = "except if it seems to come from drugdealing" [21:20]
asciilifeform any fr jurists here? davout ? [21:21]
mircea_popescu but that's the font of all the "prove you didn't steal it" thing. [21:21]
asciilifeform are picassos presumed to come from dope work ? [21:21]
mircea_popescu that's not the controlling bit. the controlling bit is, "can you prove this is yours ?" [21:21]
* asciilifeform unable to find 'constructive title' in reference; only found 'constructive possession' [21:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00027062 = 3.721 BTC [-] [21:23]
mircea_popescu i made up the term for this discussion. [21:24]
mircea_popescu prolly shoulda added scarequotes. [21:24]
asciilifeform l0l [21:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: so, under this concept, if cannot prove that it is yours, it reverts to the last registered owner? [21:24]
mircea_popescu yep [21:25]
mircea_popescu which is why the picassos aren't going to the state, but to the heirs. [21:25]
asciilifeform except they did go to the state. the heirs, note, didn't show up with rifle to take it [21:25]
asciilifeform the state helpfully did it for them [21:25]
mircea_popescu how's that relevant ? [21:26]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1064373 << might be exactly the problem, on superficial perusal of the literature. [21:26]
assbot Logged on 23-03-2015 00:00:17; asciilifeform: too few balls, they have, to utter 'an ought' straight up [21:26]
asciilifeform that it was servants of the crown who not only showed up to dekulakize the electrician, but handed out jail term [21:26]
asciilifeform but i get the legal fiction involved, yes [21:27]
mircea_popescu aite then [21:27]
mircea_popescu but yes, the entire "taint" bullshit does not work. the correct avenue is exactly the reverse : require to be paid only in "proper" bitcoin, that is to say, bitcoin traceable to X or Y or Z purchase, from agent of the crown, which fictitiously has title. [21:28]
mircea_popescu in this view of Bitcoin, only Draper has any, or whoever bought it from USG. [21:28]
asciilifeform seems like inevitably will be tried [21:28]
mircea_popescu sort-of like a usg-run laundromat. [21:28]
mircea_popescu likely, yeah. [21:28]
asciilifeform didn't this already have one go around ? [21:28]
asciilifeform some idiot had 'whitelist' [21:29]
mircea_popescu not afaik., [21:29]
* asciilifeform distinctly recalls [21:29]
asciilifeform !s whitelisting [21:29]
assbot 3 results for 'whitelisting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whitelisting [21:29]
asciilifeform !s whitelist [21:29]
assbot 50 results for 'whitelist' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whitelist [21:29]
mircea_popescu but it jives very well with "so what if we can't control bitcoin - it'd divisible, so let's just carve a kiddy pool and play in there! " [21:29]
asciilifeform !s taxcoin [21:29]
assbot 2 results for 'taxcoin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=taxcoin [21:29]
decimation luke-jr was kinda advocating the blacklist if I recall [21:29]
decimation !up Luke-Jr [21:30]
* assbot gives voice to Luke-Jr [21:30]
decimation didn't you advance a blacklist in gentoo? [21:30]
funkenstein_ actually that kinda makes more sense than a separate fedcoin [21:30]
asciilifeform iirc he understood that other folks would choose to relay the 'bad' tx [21:30]
Luke-Jr what blacklist are you claiming I advocate? [21:30]
Luke-Jr decimation: no [21:30]
asciilifeform but wanted to make some kind of statement against dice [21:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fedcoin carved from bitcoin is missing key feature for them - forced transfer [21:32]
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asciilifeform what do they do when it is time to confiscate? revoke the blessing on the coin? this doesn't move it back into the state coffer [21:32]
asciilifeform nor enabled them to mint debased coin at will [21:33]
asciilifeform an altcoin (with some form of key escrow) still seems likely imho [21:33]
asciilifeform (as a candidate for 'fedcoin') [21:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform suppose they make a few peers that use Luke-Jr style rules, and then ddos the ~60 or so remaining nodes. [21:33]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [21:33]
mircea_popescu there's a reason usgavin & co pretend like nodes are not important while trying to make them not feasible. [21:33]
mircea_popescu sadly for that party the attempt to do so quietly failed catastrophically, but what's that mean ? [21:34]
funkenstein_ you don't have to ddos the remaining nodes.. just declare your colored coins to be worth 10x the others [21:34]
mircea_popescu ... [21:34]
asciilifeform in exchange for freshly printed green [21:34]
asciilifeform funkenstein_ has it [21:34]
decimation usg could just arrest/seize/forfeit nodes it doesn't like [21:34]
mircea_popescu or at any rate try. [21:35]
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asciilifeform it is worth asking what usg would be trying to accomplish with fedcoin [21:35]
mircea_popescu but notice that the people who do not suffer from that famous " pathologically difficult attitude toward various important software development philosophy " will not have much problems using usg-nodes anyway [21:35]
mircea_popescu and so... [21:35]
asciilifeform for some purposes 'colouring' existing btc as funkenstein_ described would work [21:35]
asciilifeform and less noise, less fuss, than gasenwagen [21:36]
asciilifeform 'woah my shit is worth 10x, sell' goes typical lamer [21:36]
funkenstein_ like newton did with gold [21:36]
mircea_popescu the only purpose it would really work for is, giving us a lot of weaponry to kill them with [21:36]
decimation asciilifeform: but then usg is stuck with backing dollars with bitcoin [21:36]
mircea_popescu which is why i kinda suspect it's inevitable. [21:36]
funkenstein_ i think this is a post dollar discussion [21:36]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the kill shot would involve an 'arse-mouth system', no? [21:37]
mircea_popescu everything since 2009 or so is a post-dollar discussion. [21:37]
asciilifeform where 1) idiot fed pays 10x 2) mr jihad buys 10x normal coin 3) ??? 4) go to 1 [21:37]
funkenstein_ wish i was here earlier :) [21:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno, they bought isis the weapons and then they bought isis the meatsacks to practice shooting round tikrit. [21:37]
mircea_popescu seems to me they mostly buy us shit, so. [21:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 100% same as afghan campaign '03-present [21:37]
decimation well, people in ohio need jobs see... [21:37]
mircea_popescu right, so why would one expect different ? [21:38]
asciilifeform but i can see the 'win' from afghan - lockheed, grumman, halliburton, general dynamics, etc. get to churn inventory [21:38]
asciilifeform the actual purpose of every usg mil engagement since korea [21:38]
asciilifeform but what'd be the 'win' here ? [21:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15138 @ 0.00027062 = 4.0966 BTC [-] [21:39]
mircea_popescu i dunno, draper gets to pretend like he's a savvy businessman ? [21:39]
mircea_popescu after pretending like he bought bitcoin ? [21:39]
mircea_popescu gotta keep the pretense up. [21:39]
decimation I just thought of a brilliant anti-'area denial' (to usg term) weapon system. imagine a small turboprop uav ... that can drop its wings and turn into kerosene rocket [21:40]
asciilifeform as i understand, operating with the 'monetary system as storage battery' model (mr mold's ?) usg has two possible (non-exclusive) agendas re: btc: 1) steal charge from the battery 2) blow up the battery [21:40]
asciilifeform ideally 1+2, i venture to guess, from their point of view [21:41]
asciilifeform but separable conceptually [21:41]
mircea_popescu neither works. [21:41]
asciilifeform sure - but which is the desired one [21:41]
mircea_popescu the only actually available thing is, print a "Obama made this lolz" sticker, try to affix. [21:41]
asciilifeform for the current set of lizardfolk [21:41]
mircea_popescu and so i imagine this is what they'll do. [21:41]
asciilifeform decimation: german 'v1' [21:42]
decimation moldbug thought the us would jail exchanges/possessors, but usg lost the initiative on that one [21:42]
asciilifeform decimation: actually they didn't need to jail - no one dared [21:42]
asciilifeform afaik [21:42]
mircea_popescu i told him he was wrong back then. sadly... as per the castrato model, never answered. [21:42]
asciilifeform to make a non-usg exchange in usa [21:42]
decimation kinda like a 'v1', but with the appropriate tracking/seeking system, and an entire fleet in orbit around 'La Serenissima' [21:43]
asciilifeform thing is, there are multiple overlapping fields of fire re: usg vs exchanges. e.g., banks monitor -all- incoming and outgoing flow [21:43]
asciilifeform decimation: pertinent thread: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-11-2014#934786 [21:44]
assbot Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it. [21:44]
decimation yes, presumes the ability to manufacture jet parts [21:44]
decimation not a 'partizan' system [21:44]
asciilifeform aviation, by and large, only works when you're a mega-state with maxint constantly replaced slaves to parasitise [21:44]
asciilifeform decimation: make me so much as a transistor circa 1950 with partizan tech. [21:45]
decimation I would settle for a partizan bank [21:45]
funkenstein_ transistor tech has changed a bit in 40 years, jet engines not so much [21:45]
decimation as I recall the 'v1' had no moving parts [21:46]
asciilifeform fine. make a me262 with jungle tech. [21:46]
decimation hehe yea not me262 though [21:46]
asciilifeform or even the same 'v1' [21:46]
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asciilifeform or hell, a single ak round. [21:46]
decimation at a minimum you would need fairly modern metallurgy [21:46]
asciilifeform most folks who go in for this line of thought, have no idea how much industry is baked into even something like an ak round. [21:46]
decimation yeah, especially if you want to make it 'from ore' [21:47]
asciilifeform no need to pontificate - the folks in palestine are playing 'junkyard wars' warfare as we speak [21:47]
asciilifeform check out what kind of weapons they fight with. [21:47]
decimation old busted ex soviet stuff welded to toyotas, etc [21:47]
asciilifeform well, to be fair, they have rockets made from old plumbing [21:47]
asciilifeform but iirc that's the top of their game [21:47]
asciilifeform (with respect to self-made items) [21:48]
decimation or your 'recoiless rifles' [21:48]
asciilifeform those - imported. [21:48]
decimation as are the actually effective guided rockets [21:48]
decimation although I think a guided rocket is more likely to be manufactured by a 'partizan' than bullets actually [21:49]
asciilifeform marginally. [21:49]
decimation still would need good metal and precision milling [21:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4518 @ 0.00027062 = 1.2227 BTC [-] [21:50]
asciilifeform and good post-metalwork process (temper) [21:50]
asciilifeform incidentally, this is yet another reason why i try to convince folks to read about electrolytic milling [21:50]
asciilifeform (afaik a soviet-only technology, to date, at least in the sense of general-purpose multi-axis milling rather than glorified casting - all you'll find on the subject in english) [21:51]
asciilifeform electrolysis doesn't give a flying fuck about temper [21:51]
asciilifeform or hardness of the material in general, so long as it conducts [21:51]
decimation does it work on Al with the oxide layer? [21:51]
asciilifeform hence you can use pre-tempered whatevers (car axles, etc.) and go straight to $weaponpart [21:52]
asciilifeform decimation: with a little chemical magic, yes [21:52]
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decimation http://atomicdelights.com/blog/a-glimpse-at-how-the-apple-watch-is-made < asciilifeform did you see this? this was the most interesting bit to me: "Apple is doing something utterly unique in this 5 seconds of video - they are using a laser to clean up any burrs or finishing defects from machining." [21:55]
assbot How Apple Makes the Watch — Atomic Delights ... ( http://bit.ly/1COmrhT ) [21:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00026982 = 2.941 BTC [-] [21:59]
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funkenstein_ !up Luke-Jr [22:01]
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BingoBoingo decimation: More interesting is how the reach 18 karats by... bulking up the "gold" with high volume low density ceramics as the alloying agent. [22:11]
BingoBoingo Lightest 18k gold around [22:12]
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decimation BingoBoingo: according to that page they are not using that patented ceramic procedure, but are instead using an alloy with 'work hardening' "For the Watch Edition however, Apple appears to have eschewed any revolutionary alchemy and instead, applied an innovative work hardening process to create gold that is (claimed to be) significantly harder than the typical 18kt used by other watchmakers. " [22:34]
decimation nubbins`: have you ever done work with gold leaf? [22:34]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [22:35]
nubbins` metallic inks, closest thing [22:35]
decimation I would imagine it would be a pain in the ass [22:35]
decimation canada mints 24k gold coins, which is kinda dumb [22:35]
danielpbarron !up Bagels7 [22:35]
* assbot gives voice to Bagels7 [22:35]
nubbins` asciilifeform:'Under the terms of the deal, Emery is expecting return to Canada to serve his sentence, said Tousaw.' << wai wat!?!?! canada offers 'sit in jail for your crimes in usa' service? how about iran? can i do time in canada for blasphemy against the prophet ? <<< emery is a canadian national -- this is like /you/ doing time in /iran/ for blasphemy against the prophet because you mailed an iranian a copy of hebdo [22:35]
BingoBoingo decimation: I'm not sure I can trust Apple to not use words in a way wildly different from word's actual meanings [22:36]
nubbins` decimation 99999 purity, finest in the world [22:36]
decimation yeah but utterly impractical for circulation [22:36]
nubbins` they're... not circulation [22:36]
decimation you want to alloy with copper etc for durability [22:36]
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nubbins` compare to a krugerrand, which was a circulation coin [22:36]
nubbins` and thusly alloyed [22:36]
decimation 'american gold eagle' too [22:36]
decimation I'm not denying it's pretty, just impractical for its stated purpose [22:37]
nubbins` given its face value of $50, a gold maple leaf definitely is impractical for use as currency [22:37]
nubbins` since its expenditure represents a 4-digit net loss [22:37]
decimation heh well there's that [22:37]
nubbins` :D [22:37]
decimation I think we discussed this awhile ago, some guy tried to get 'taxed' by the 'face value' of gold eagles [22:38]
decimation usg was not amused [22:38]
nubbins` heh [22:38]
nubbins` maybe if he bought em for fv. [22:38]
nubbins` with the requisite loss written into the seller's tax return [22:38]
nubbins` speaking of coins [22:39]
nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.msg10854328#msg10854328 [22:39]
assbot Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1CJWoH0 ) [22:39]
decimation lol people wanna pay 7.8 btc for 0.5 btc coin? [22:40]
nubbins` nuts hey [22:40]
decimation I guess the market decides the price... [22:40]
nubbins` ^ [22:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9728 @ 0.00027045 = 2.6309 BTC [+] {2} [22:45]
mircea_popescu nubbins` no it's nbot. he's canadian national doing time IN CANADA for having offended foreign government. [22:46]
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chanserv op #bitcoin-assets [22:49]
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu [22:49]
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nubbins` he actually did 3-4 years in usa [22:50]
nubbins` was extradited from here [22:50]
chanserv +b *!*~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl [22:50]
chanserv #bitcoin-assets +b *!*~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl [22:51]
chanserv help [22:51]
chanserv #bitcoin-assets flags +b *!*~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl [22:51]
chanserv flags #bitcoin-assets +b *!*~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl [22:51]
* mircea_popescu sets mode +g #bitcoin-assets [22:52]
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* BingoBoingo is now known as oglafbot [22:53]
oglafbot http://oglaf.com/load/ [22:53]
assbot Load ... ( http://bit.ly/1CJWT3V ) [22:53]
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mircea_popescu lol [22:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.0002701 = 2.9981 BTC [-] {2} [22:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00027432 = 4.2931 BTC [+] [23:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00026949 = 3.4764 BTC [-] {2} [23:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10450 @ 0.00027432 = 2.8666 BTC [+] [23:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00027432 = 3.0998 BTC [+] [23:38]
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mircea_popescu "No doubt the Jews aren't a lovable people; I don't care about them myself; but that is not sufficient to explain the Pogrom." [23:41]
mircea_popescu who said ? [23:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00027432 = 5.1298 BTC [+] [23:43]
decimation FDR? [23:46]
mircea_popescu chamberlain, actually. [23:47]
decimation heh [23:47]
mircea_popescu What a Chamberlain government would have done had there been no war in 1939 will never be known, but an election was due in 1940, and the manifesto proposals outlined by the Conservative Research Department embraced family allowances and the inclusion of insured persons' dependants in health cover—about half the advances usually attributed to Beveridge. As Lady Cecily Debenham wrote to Chamberlain's widow, Anne, afte [23:47]
mircea_popescu r his death: "Neville was a Radical to the end of his days. It makes my blood boil when I see his ‘Tory’ and ‘Reactionary’ outlook taken as a matter of course because the Whirligig of Politics made him leader of the Tory party." [23:47]
mircea_popescu turns out... a socailist too ?! [23:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7845 @ 0.00026901 = 2.1104 BTC [-] [23:48]
asciilifeform nubbins`: this is like /you/ doing time in /iran/ for blasphemy against the prophet because you mailed an iranian a copy of hebdo << nah that would be like me doing time in local state pen for mailing hebdo to teheran [23:48]
mircea_popescu "for a more perfect world union" [23:49]
nubbins` none of these sound great ;/ [23:49]
asciilifeform nubbins` et al: of course this is a trick question, because canada (like the rest of the 'civilized' - and even the orcish - world) is signatory to the nacro convention [23:49]
asciilifeform and hence the pretenses of differing laws are just that [23:49]
asciilifeform *narco [23:49]
nubbins` ^ [23:50]
nubbins` and what the UN says, goes! [23:50]
asciilifeform quite possibly this was the juridicial basis for the fella sitting in a ca jail for a us violation [23:50]
asciilifeform or wait, vice versa [23:50]
asciilifeform damn, the sheer perversity of this plays with the brain [23:51]
nubbins` yeah, he never set foot in usa til they brought him there [23:51]
nubbins` but i guess his mail was an extension of himself [23:51]
asciilifeform neither did noriega [23:51]
nubbins` heh. [23:51]
nubbins` were noriega's crimes a $200 fine in panama? [23:51]
nubbins` (trick question 8) [23:51]
mircea_popescu well the difference beeing that seeds were also not illegal. [23:51]
asciilifeform iirc they are not illegal in usa either [23:52]
nubbins` oh yes they are [23:52]
mircea_popescu a fine example of the insanity is the life and times of one little, aka max hardcore [23:52]
nubbins` 1 seed = 1 plant in usa [23:52]
nubbins` (iirc!) [23:52]
mircea_popescu nubbins` nowadays. not then. [23:52]
asciilifeform are the legal 'hempseeds' found in hippy foods somehow inactivated ? [23:52]
asciilifeform demilitarized? denatured? [23:52]
asciilifeform (what's the term of art here) [23:52]
nubbins` non-psychoactive strain [23:52]
asciilifeform how to prove which strain w/out growing [23:52]
nubbins` hemp seeds are as benign as hops flowers [23:53]
* nubbins` shrugs [23:53]
nubbins` admittedly never seen whole hemp seeds [23:53]
asciilifeform i also recall that, at least until recently, psychoactive mushroom spores were legal in usa [23:53]
nubbins` ok, visibly different. [23:53]
nubbins` the fun ones have tiger stripes [23:53]
danielpbarron hemp is illegal in USSA [23:53]
nubbins` http://growersguidetocannabis.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/DSC_0063.jpg [23:53]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpAnQk ) [23:53]
decimation moldbug has a quote that implicates FDR in covering for the soviets for Katyn [23:55]
nubbins` vs benign hemp seeds: http://imgur.com/J4Q6ni7 [23:56]
assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpB0cT ) [23:56]
mircea_popescu i dun see much difference. [23:57]
* copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:57]
BingoBoingo vs benign hemp seeds: http://imgur.com/J4Q6ni7 << Appear to have been roasted, shouldn't germinate [23:57]
assbot Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpBkYX ) [23:57]
nubbins` hard to find pics of raw ones [23:58]
nubbins` anyway, emery served ~4 years in usa [23:58]
nubbins` released this past aug [23:58]
decimation http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/21/cold-war-ii-this-time-the-commies-are-in-washington/ < ron paul's man rants about commies [23:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00026901 = 2.3404 BTC [-] [23:58]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpBtf5 ) [23:58]
asciilifeform l0l! dugin is 'sanctioned' now ? [23:59]
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