Forum logs for 21 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	anyway : quantum tunneling is the observed property of quantum "particles" to interact at a distance without ever interacting with whatever's separating their first position from the second.	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	this is most annoying when for instance electrons ignore dielectrics	[00:00]
nubbins`	that's quantum entanglement, no?	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	no.	[00:00]
nubbins`	quantum tunneling is when i go outside but skip the door	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	quantum entanglement is the property of two apparently distinct "particles" to share more than they should.	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	as a rule of thumb, the first occurs over tiny distances, the 2nd is distance-invariant	[00:01]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` yes, something like that. as if you could only be right before or right after the door but not in between.	[00:02]
nubbins`	this is all the sort of thing i understand while reading it but don't really copy it over to long-term storage	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	depends a lot on your energy.	[00:02]
nubbins`	yeah	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	but then again in qm, your existence is not so distinct from your energy.	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	how did that line go,	[00:02]
asciilifeform	the long-distance one behaves exclusively like a pair of synched rng.	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	;;google money over power, power over money	[00:02]
gribble	WAREN G & SISSEL - THE RAPSODY PRINCE IGOR - YouTube: ; Warren G - Prince Igor Lyrics \| MetroLyrics: ; JWTM – Money Over Power Lyrics \| Genius:	[00:02]
asciilifeform	the short-distance (tunnel) on the other hand is one of the weapons by which 'moore's law' is dying - http://www.iue.tuwien.ac.at/phd/entner/node23.html	[00:04]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FODLm0 )	[00:04]
asciilifeform	http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/quantum/barr.html << for folks who like to play with the numbers	[00:05]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FOE1BN )	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform quite.	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	just about at the 5ish nm level it takes over iirc	[00:05]
decimation	asciilifeform: re: conversation about neighborhood isp: turns out there is a town about an hour away from you that is attempting to provide its own gigabit fiber service: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/a-startup-offering-gigabit-fiber-is-expanding-to-a-second-comcast-dominated-city	[00:07]
assbot	A Startup Offering Gigabit Fiber Is Expanding to a Second Comcast-Dominated City \| Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOEpQt )	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	decimation a startup != a town tho neh ?	[00:07]
asciilifeform	was about to say.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	show me a town where anyone freely digs up the roads.	[00:08]
asciilifeform	not even in africa.	[00:08]
decimation	no if you read the article, the 'startup' is actually a division of tucows, the domainame freeware site	[00:08]
decimation	and they are merely 'operating' the network after westminster, md builds it	[00:08]
decimation	" "We want to blow this thing up, and we want disruptive services at disruptive pricing," Robert Wack, Westminster's city council president, told me. "We've got Comcast and its usual suite of services, Verizon DSL, with its patchy service areas, and dish and satellite services. Nobody is happy with any of it, and none of it has the capacity we need to take this city into the future.""	[00:09]
asciilifeform	verizomcast is doomed to play 'bad cop' to the 'good cop' of usgnet	[00:09]
asciilifeform	(or whatever name it ends up taking)	[00:09]
decimation	apparently tucows is on usg's shitlist because it won't play ball	[00:10]
decimation	http://motherboard.vice.com/read/inside-the-notorious-canadian-internet-company-targeted-by-the-us-government " As previously mentioned, Tucows landed on the US Trade Representative’s annual list of notorious markets due to the company’s practice of not responding to takedown requests from companies alleging that Tucows registers domains for sites selling illegal goods. This is despite the fact that a domain name registrar has	[00:10]
assbot	Inside the 'Notorious' Canadian Internet Company Targeted by the US Government \| Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOFnfA )	[00:10]
decimation	essentially no say in the content of the websites on its roster, Bunton told me. "	[00:10]
asciilifeform	idea is that they 'have the choice to surrender to usg' and didn't make it	[00:12]
decimation	yeah I guess that's the idea, but it seems dubious that usg will tolerate such behavior	[00:13]
decimation	especially when it has its own blessed monopolists	[00:13]
nubbins`	wonder will the town wait to be sued before giving up subscriber info	[00:15]
asciilifeform	lol 'giving up' when isp (and credit card co) pipe it to usg in milliseconds when subscriber pays	[00:15]
asciilifeform	and continuously after	[00:16]
nubbins`	:D	[00:16]
nubbins`	if i wanna see a card trick, i don't want you to hold the deck face-up	[00:16]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9GJPoMs30E << historical interest	[00:17]
assbot	Guillotine in the basement of German Reichstag - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bf9tCJ )	[00:17]
nubbins`	man, i remember tucows from back when i had to buy a book to use the internet	[00:17]
decimation	asciilifeform: I don't get why we don't still use the guillotine	[00:18]
decimation	seems pretty fast and efficient	[00:18]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967169	[00:18]
assbot	Logged on 07-01-2015 00:39:01; *: asciilifeform has been enjoying 'Seeing Justice Done. The Age of Spectacular Capital Punishment in France.' (Paul Friedland.)	[00:18]
asciilifeform	^ described, among other very interesting things, the decline & fall of the guillotine	[00:18]
asciilifeform	even while it was still used, was hidden behind closed door for most of the 20th c	[00:19]
asciilifeform	because of the fundamental duplicity of totalitarian state	[00:19]
asciilifeform	(must keep two sets of books, can't show publicly how it works)	[00:19]
asciilifeform	just as 'civilized' countries today punish folks behind closed doors	[00:20]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772419 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772420 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772421 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772429	[00:20]
assbot	Logged on 27-07-2014 17:35:40; asciilifeform: the one common anthropological thread i see here is that most governments insist on some 'national' symbolic meaning in their chosen means of execution. e.g., the french guillotine across all five 'republics'	[00:20]
assbot	Logged on 27-07-2014 17:36:01; asciilifeform: when usa was a techno-power, electric chair was king	[00:20]
assbot	Logged on 27-07-2014 17:36:20; asciilifeform: banana republics, soviet world - shooting	[00:20]
assbot	Logged on 27-07-2014 17:39:58; asciilifeform: so from this it follows that the current ceremony (injection with not-quite-poisons in an elaborate pseudo-medical setting) also symbolizes something about modern usa, re: national character.	[00:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00029193 = 1.2261 BTC [-]	[00:21]
decimation	re: electric chair < my understanding is that it was mainly a marketing gimmick for electricity	[00:21]
nubbins`	i once saw thomas edison electrocute an elephant	[00:22]
nubbins`	well, not in person	[00:22]
asciilifeform	famous film	[00:22]
decimation	asciilifeform: note that keeping the execution behind closed doors greatly diminishes its intended effect to encourage the others	[00:22]
asciilifeform	the books was actually about this	[00:23]
asciilifeform	specifically, how the purpose changed	[00:23]
asciilifeform	and wtf it even was originally.	[00:23]
asciilifeform	highly recommended.	[00:23]
decimation	thanks for the recommendation.	[00:23]
nubbins`	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topsy_%28elephant%29	[00:24]
nubbins`	:o	[00:24]
assbot	Topsy (elephant) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOIRip )	[00:24]
decimation	asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: hidden execution in the US was that those who wanted to end all executions encouraged it so that they could then argue that it doesn't have a 'discouragement' effect on crime	[00:24]
nubbins`	what a bummer	[00:25]
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decimation	just like the same ones burden the death penalty with layers of bureaucracy and then claim that it's too unwieldy to use	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	!up ponyslaystation	[00:26]
-assbot-	You voiced ponyslaystation for 30 minutes.	[00:26]
*	assbot gives voice to ponyslaystation	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	no if you read the article, the 'startup' is actually a division of tucows, the domainame freeware site << you know twocows i actually like.	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	and obviously, the usg doesn't like it. how surprising.	[00:27]
*	decimation has fond memories of downloading warez from tucows back in the day	[00:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95950 @ 0.00028191 = 27.0493 BTC [-] {2}	[00:27]
asciilifeform	aha	[00:27]
asciilifeform	it and simtel	[00:27]
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mircea_popescu	idea is that they 'have the choice to surrender to usg' and didn't make it << myeah. they gotta be supported.	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	generally, any friend of the usg is an enemy of the world.	[00:28]
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decimation	asciilifeform: did you get those little paper catalogs of shareware which you could order on diskettes?	[00:28]
asciilifeform	never got paper, no	[00:28]
asciilifeform	(where? lol)	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	i did, actually.	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	even got a diskette of fractal programs.	[00:29]
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*	mircea_popescu comes from a country where "warez" has no particular meaning. you mean software, right ?	[00:31]
decimation	yes, with the meaning shaded with the implication that the software is unlicensed	[00:31]
decimation	although in this case it was shareware generally	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	http://36.media.tumblr.com/2a63eaed64b2fba30ca3a958c905b813/tumblr_mw02jsxq8T1s9rg6lo1_1280.jpg << study.	[00:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfd6bH )	[00:33]
decimation	linked from ascii's youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQdDnbXXn20 < Wehrmacht soldaten describing their point of view, and pride	[00:39]
assbot	WW2 justified by former German soldiers - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfej2Q )	[00:39]
decimation	forward to 2:57ff to see the old dude scold some chick about 'war crimes'	[00:40]
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asciilifeform	from guillotine thread: a: 'I want it, is it for sale?'	[00:44]
asciilifeform	b: 'Build your own, so you too can become a state. Then build a prison to house it, and start capturing people, accusing them of shit, and holding them for ransom. Print lots of worthless IOUs and start paying for stuff with them, and extorting money from your neighbors to pay you with your own IOUs every year a tax on their land, or you will imprison and guilotine them. Use your growing wealth to stockpile more and more we	[00:44]
asciilifeform	apons and back up your operation, because you're making more an more enemies, but that's okay, you have all the high tech weapons. Start passing laws to prohibit others from owning anything more than a rifle or shotgun, while you buy gunships and tanks and jets and cluster bombs. Hirer very intelligent people who are ready to sell out humanity in exchange for trinket amounts of wealth to fatten their own pockets. Setup c	[00:44]
asciilifeform	ourts and judges to pass laws to forbid everyone around you from killing, lying, enslaving or imprisoning people, and stealing, but make it all legal for you under different names. Congratulations, you have just founded a country,also known as a state! Go to war with other states, to get rid of surplus wealth and attempt to grab more land to tax more people, when you find an opportunity that they are weaker than you. Secret	[00:44]
asciilifeform	ly assasisnate foreign leaders to destablilize small countries around you, and run drug running operations to generate even more revenue for more black projects, and tell your people its for their own security. Waterboard and torture your enemies and call them terrorists.'	[00:45]
asciilifeform	(dropped here for the lulzrecord)	[00:45]
decimation	heh	[00:46]
decimation	asciilifeform: not to mention you gotta setup a bureacracy so the people can grovel before it for trinkets: http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2015/02/28/massachusetts-bureaucracy-gets-1-in-13-households-to-come-in-and-beg/	[00:50]
assbot	Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Massachusetts bureaucracy gets 1 in 13 households to come in and beg ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfh5oL )	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	in mass' defense, it's really merely providing a very in demand service	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	1 in 2 households are looking for something to beg and someplace to do it.	[00:55]
decimation	heh true	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	"And those workers are different from the ones who decide whether or not to give out a free"	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	why exactly are these idiots called "workers" ?	[00:55]
decimation	well, they get paid	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	people object to slave hard drives being called slave hard drives, in spite of the accuracy	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	nobody cares shitheads are called workers ?	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	you, if your paycheck comes from the governent, YOU ARE NOT A WORKER.	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	work is when you do something useful. you're a fricitoner not a fucking worker.	[00:56]
decimation	well, that net catches a good portion of the us when considered in its wide sense	[00:57]
mircea_popescu	i'da made the comment there, but apparently greenspun doesn't know how to comments.	[00:57]
decimation	as it is, only 58% of usians "work" http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t01.htm	[00:58]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BfiSdm )	[00:58]
decimation	almost 59%! thanks obama!	[00:58]
mircea_popescu	honestly i don't think this has ever been different.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	in your classical "ancient tribe in the caves" about 2/3 of the tribe did something.	[00:59]
decimation	well, it excludes the quite legitimate work of raising children	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	what's different is a bunch of ideological spew clouding the issues.	[00:59]
mircea_popescu	decimation other than the genetics of intelligence, the children is another way i get conservatives enraged.	[01:00]
mircea_popescu	as far as i'm concerned, giving a mother a year off at childbirth is perfectly reasonable.	[01:00]
decimation	why wouldn't a conservative agree?	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	people go nuts. as if babies are required to come from the stork, and for free, because htey're wrapped up too tightly to consider fucking.	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	decimation FREE MONEY TO NIGGER WHORES!!!?!?!?!?!	[01:01]
decimation	well, there is the question of 'who pays'	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	at least that's what it usually reduces to.	[01:01]
decimation	but it certainly seems like society ought to consider paying for young families over old codgers	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	decimation imo the most defensible expense in the state budget.	[01:01]
mircea_popescu	way before "education"	[01:01]
asciilifeform	meat production?	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	i dun think there's anything that can be done in a whole decade of "education" that's as valuable as kid having mother at home first year.	[01:02]
decimation	there is something weird about the us, in that the grandparents often think that their responisibilities end after seeing the children off to college	[01:03]
decimation	instead of endowing the next generation	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	decimation generally ro families reproduce once grandparents go to pension.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	EXACTLY the same thing, except state doesn't pay for mother's year off, pays for gramma's years off.	[01:03]
decimation	well, paying for young families has the further advantage of being a limited-time affair	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	it's not even paying for families per se.	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	it's just, children are a cost everyone seems to wish to externalize.	[01:04]
mircea_popescu	glwt...	[01:04]
decimation	yes, agreed	[01:05]
decimation	a few generations ago it was considered everyone's job (in the family tree) to assist with the young children	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, the revolutionary french actually put it in the code that pregnant women may steal food off market displays.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	but, in turkey, at the height of the syrian refugee crisis, i numerously observed various people selling food gifting items to pregnant syrian women.	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	the idea's widespread.	[01:06]
decimation	there is some of that in the us, in a fossilized way. sometimes pregnant women are given priority for parking, for instance	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	(put the husbands in the most visibly awkward position too - once that hand to chest gesture's done they can't refuse, but on the other hand... their wife's sexuality was just referenced by these half-satan pigdogs. was pretty lulzy to observe)	[01:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57350 @ 0.00028252 = 16.2025 BTC [+] {2}	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	which doth mean that even across religious conflict, the pregnant woman trumps the imam. imagine that!	[01:09]
decimation	heh. no one can shrug off their own humanity	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	i'm not even sure that's what it is.	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	There are no limits to male hypocrisy in this matter. No doubt there are moments when man’s sexual immunities are made acutely humiliating to him. When the terrible moment of birth arrives, its supreme importance and its superhuman effort and peril, in which the father has no part, dwarf him into the meanest insignificance: he slinks out of the way of the humblest petticoat, happy if he be poor enough to be pushed o	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	ut of the house to outface his ignominy by drunken rejoicings. But when the crisis is over he takes his revenge, swaggering as the breadwinner, and speaking of Woman’s “sphere” with condescension, even with chivalry, as if the kitchen and the nursery were less important than the office in the city. When his swagger is exhausted he drivels into erotic poetry or sentimental uxoriousness; and the Tennysonian King Ar	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	thur posing at Guinevere becomes Don Quixote grovelling before Dulcinea. You must admit that here Nature beats Comedy out of the field: the wildest hominist or feminist farce is insipid after the most commonplace “slice of life.”	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	i am rather persuaded by shaw there.	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	quite out of the field.	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	the us equivalent, of course, being mammie to rhett butler : "theis ain't a man's job, buzz off."	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind << fwiw, i am still not convinced that the electric neuron is not the correct approach. the problem is that it should be stateful. i am half tempted to model what happens if you run a grid of these with say 255 states per.	[01:14]
decimation	there was a time when the husband could appropriately wait outside to receive the new little one after the moment came	[01:14]
assbot	THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND \| Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1BfmpIX )	[01:14]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061067 << lol he's such a gadfly this guy :D	[01:16]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:15:14; jurov: lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself"	[01:16]
thestringpuller	anyone watching the friedcat story developing	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	jurov you ever considered doing stand-up comedy ? something in the stewart vein mebbe ?	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller sort-of. why /	[01:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.0002912 = 2.781 BTC [+]	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061138 << well, something like that. "what do you mean by this nonsensical question you purport to be asking"	[01:21]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:46:09; asciilifeform: the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question'	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	but that aside : you will note that if i make a bitwise copy of a running system on anothjer system, eiteher will continue independently. if i then set the second on fire, the first is unharmed. whether the 2nd "Thinks" that "it" = "the first" is harmed oir not is irrelevant.	[01:22]
mircea_popescu	that's the animism here, the naive proposition that harm upon the wax statuette will visit the subject.	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	which is lulzy.	[01:23]
asciilifeform	the lulz comes from operating using undefined thing	[01:24]
asciilifeform	as in a proof where divided by 0	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	to me the lulz comes from the similarity with idiocy, in spite of all the pretense.	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	the same sort of thing as "well... french nobles had lice. just like the peasants. and died of tb"	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	"so then what is this nobility again ?" "oh, their blood was a differentcolor." "ic."	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	"rationalists" indistinguishable from flatearthists, except, perhaps, by the color of their guts ? sign me up.	[01:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4531 @ 0.00028047 = 1.2708 BTC [-]	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061143 << except less is, of course, more.	[01:27]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:51:31; Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead.	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	no one would dispute the true lenin is in the transhumanist facility at dark pink plaza right ?	[01:28]
asciilifeform	mega-l0lz	[01:28]
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asciilifeform	'Ленин жил, Ленин жив, Ленин будет жить!' (TM)	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	ikr?	[01:29]
nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead. <<< oh ho ho ho, i like this	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	;)	[01:29]
nubbins`	what an anomaly to be wiggling about!!	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	isn't it ?	[01:30]
nubbins`	christ, can't wait for it to stop	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	that's why you get sleep paralysis. but it doesn'ty hold.	[01:30]
nubbins`	get some fuckin rest	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	well... at least not at first.	[01:30]
nubbins`	ahh, that's rich	[01:30]
decimation	re: genetics of intelligence < the post makes a good point, in that there's nobody who can tell a story about how some genes 'cause' intelligence. But that doesn't really address the observation that when you give a test to ethnic groups A&B, the resulting distributions are different.	[01:31]
asciilifeform	and the twin studies - happened.	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	decimation why would you expect it addresses that ?	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	it also doesn't address this : http://36.media.tumblr.com/a3c8b86ae62f828e29f0cc2f7becb8c5/tumblr_mvfml07JnV1sgpxs6o1_1280.jpg	[01:31]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfqz3x )	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	among other things.	[01:31]
asciilifeform	!s stupidity heritable	[01:31]
assbot	1 results for 'stupidity heritable' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stupidity+heritable	[01:31]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: l0l where this photo from ?	[01:32]
nubbins`	the singularity	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	oh, private genetics research lab.	[01:32]
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mircea_popescu	(there's this entire subculture of [mostly white] men that aim to raise other peopel's children)	[01:32]
asciilifeform	fetish ?	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	im not sure that's an adequate term.	[01:33]
decimation	cuckoldry?	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	the behaviour is not so much different from whatever, altruism. speech. etc.	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	decimation i suppose technically.	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	tho by now that's migrated closer to a personal relationship.	[01:33]
mircea_popescu	less dramatically, people adopt all the time.	[01:34]
nubbins`	aka the double cuckold	[01:34]
decimation	and always have	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	at any rate : expecting human behaviour to be addressed by genetics is a little like expecting food to be discussed by chemistry.	[01:35]
asciilifeform	^ ahahaha there we have it	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	some attempts will be made, but srsly... whadda ya want. shit's hard and chemistry has other stuff to do.	[01:35]
asciilifeform	can still explain the behaviour of turing's apple with chemistry	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	for some definitions of explain.	[01:35]
asciilifeform	the most interesting fact about it - absolutely	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	that's the thing : any attempt to explain behaviour by genetics ends up bending the notion of "explain" the fuck out of place	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	this is damaging to the explainer.	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but maybe the apples made him gay ?	[01:37]
asciilifeform	thinking of the kcn apple	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	i know.	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	but wouldn't you agree that had the apples made him gay, THAT would be the most interesting thing about them ?	[01:37]
asciilifeform	sure, let's walk with that	[01:38]
asciilifeform	what do we get	[01:38]
mircea_popescu	we get that fuckall.	[01:38]
decimation	well, we have a warning to others	[01:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52250 @ 0.00028943 = 15.1227 BTC [+] {2}	[01:39]
nubbins`	eat not thine apple	[01:39]
nubbins`	i developed an allergy to apple skins	[01:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: we have a hidden and unjustified jump here	[01:39]
nubbins`	sucks, i like apples ;/	[01:39]
asciilifeform	-some- behaviour is demonstrably -heritable-	[01:39]
asciilifeform	not same as 'behaviour can be explained [in total] by genetics'	[01:39]
nubbins`	didn't they retroactively expunge turing's homosexuality conviction within the past couple years	[01:39]
mircea_popescu	well so then.	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	"to explain" normally means, "all of it".	[01:40]
asciilifeform	in that sense hardly anything has ever been explained.	[01:41]
mircea_popescu	once copulation explained pregnancy, that was it , you know ?	[01:42]
mircea_popescu	well...	[01:42]
nubbins`	took me til age 24 before it was explained that 1+1=2	[01:42]
nubbins`	and even that... the axioms	[01:42]
nubbins`	only goes down so far	[01:42]
asciilifeform	nubbins` owns the complete r&w 'principia' ?	[01:42]
nubbins`	covered sections in various number theory courses	[01:43]
decimation	mircea_popescu: "pregnancy comes from copulation" is a fairly workable theory	[01:44]
nubbins`	worst rabbit hole re:math was one winter eve i found myself thoroughly intoxicated at a party i'd wandered across	[01:44]
nubbins`	turned out to be the 60th bday of this philosophy prof at local uni	[01:45]
nubbins`	left the house ~4 hours later w/ several tomes on the philosophy of mathematics	[01:45]
mircea_popescu	decimation quite a ways ahead of any genetic explanations for intelligence on tap	[01:46]
mircea_popescu	leaving aside the differential of quality between the definitions of pregnant and intelligent.	[01:46]
asciilifeform	of several key types of stupidity - as solid as any explaination in e.g., electronics	[01:46]
nubbins`	anyway, principia, smth like ~100 pages into volume ii before they finish the proof?!	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but the genetic explanation of stupidity is certainly not in dispute here.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	what, down sindrome ? that's uncontroversial as it gets.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	the other end of the scale tho...	[01:47]
asciilifeform	not even speaking of trisomies etc	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	note that my observation about where the gaussian's bound is not idle.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	it connects to this.	[01:47]
asciilifeform	but of what in the english world is usually called 'shitflessness' etc	[01:47]
asciilifeform	*shiftlessness	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	not very visible, but yes, whole spittoon	[01:47]
nubbins`	i feel shiftlessness is much more a product of upbringing	[01:49]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: the twin studies -happened-	[01:49]
asciilifeform	can't magick them away	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	but he feels.	[01:49]
asciilifeform	and, notably, no one ever tried.	[01:49]
nubbins`	^ strongly, even!	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	are you saying the whippets are no no2 ?	[01:49]
asciilifeform	l0l	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform anyway, re twin studies : they're great because best we got	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	not because word of god, so to speak.	[01:50]
asciilifeform	but state of the art, which has to be dealt with as such	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	no contest.	[01:50]
asciilifeform	and not as 'lala never heard of this, so must not be relevant'	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	but that is an argument to sink a competing theory with,	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	it does not work to sink skepticism.	[01:51]
asciilifeform	skepticism ought to happily bob about, it doesn't need to sink	[01:51]
decimation	of course not, but the skeptic is still informed	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	yeah, skepticism will never sink, and if it does, brainbox' flooded.	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	anyway, back to the issue : a plethora of persuasive arguments can be made starting with genetics and ending with behaviours. however, the most commonly encountered ones are neither persuasive	[01:52]
mircea_popescu	nor all that intelligent or informed.	[01:52]
asciilifeform	what do we do next, the 'commonly encountered' variety of physics? number theory?	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	and in particular the race -> intelligence one has, in my experience so far, about a thousand times more often worked to illuminate the idiocy of the proponent than say anything about its intended topic.	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	(and yes intelligence is, by and large, a human behaviour. it's not a fucking identity.)	[01:54]
mircea_popescu	same difference as between being a doctor and practicing medicine.	[01:54]
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asciilifeform	naggum had a nifty piece on this fine point	[01:54]
asciilifeform	but i've misplaced it	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	i like naggum's points.	[01:55]
asciilifeform	it won't run away. whoever wants, can find...	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	but to belabour the point : one of the principal reasons "measuring iq" as it were height is so ridiculous, is because nobody has yet had an off day for height.	[01:56]
nubbins`	all i'm arguing is that stupid people have kids, and their kids are given stupid food and provided with stupid stimulation and forced to interact mostly with their stupid parents and their stupid friends	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	im normally 6"2 but i woke with a headache and im only 4"10	[01:57]
decimation	whatever the causality between 'genes' and 'intelligence' might be, the story is shrouded under layers of ignorance, and it is thus good to be humble on the subject	[01:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: strength is better analogy than height	[01:57]
nubbins`	if you think genetic predisposition plays a bigger part than whether you're surrounded by idiocy in your formative years, well...	[01:57]
asciilifeform	very simple to have an 'off day' for strength	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` that won't fucking do anything. ANYTHING. you are to be traced to lucy, the stupidest chimp that ever lived.	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but strength, you wiull notice, is VERY capped at the top.	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	we don't see that many people carrying skyscrapers around.	[01:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16838 @ 0.0002912 = 4.9032 BTC [+]	[01:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: greater dynamic range, sure	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	is it ?	[01:58]
asciilifeform	abundantly obvious	[01:58]
decimation	nubbins`: folks who have looked into the matter tend to disagree	[01:58]
nubbins`	decimation your logic has no place here	[01:58]
asciilifeform	incidentally, my (i don't exclusively claim it..) myelin impedance matching hypothesis - is testable.	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	it's not bad, tho perhaps not directly intelligence,	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	certainly related.	[01:59]
decimation	asciilifeform: reaction times?	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	iirc i said then, i mostly measure intelligence in person by derived units, such as reaction speeds.	[01:59]
asciilifeform	think analogy: picture a number of clocks	[01:59]
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asciilifeform	complicated mechanical clocks, all quite alike, but large enough to admit some sand	[01:59]
asciilifeform	and still run	[01:59]
asciilifeform	sorta.	[01:59]
asciilifeform	now vary how much sand in the gears.	[01:59]
asciilifeform	very loose analogy for the myelin matching thing	[02:00]
decimation	http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.com/2013/05/the-decline-in-general-intelligence.html	[02:00]
assbot	Intelligence, Personality and Genius: The decline in general intelligence estimated from a meta-analysis of the slowing of simple reaction time ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bfx5Hq )	[02:00]
asciilifeform	incidentally the 'sand in the gears' hypothesis has a name	[02:00]
asciilifeform	'big G'	[02:00]
asciilifeform	or rather 'general fitness factor'	[02:00]
asciilifeform	i forget who first described it	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061162 << ftr, this "qualified" does exactly nothing. i dunno who thinks themselves qualified in the topic.	[02:01]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:02; nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer	[02:01]
asciilifeform	but it adds up to, overall, taller/healthier/more decisive/intelligent in whatever sense / stronger / etc	[02:01]
asciilifeform	because - less 'sand'.	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and blonder.	[02:01]
asciilifeform	l0l	[02:01]
asciilifeform	'your mileage may vary'	[02:02]
asciilifeform	at any rate, it was a hypothesis, and i only know of any support for a restricted version of it	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061169 << you know this could make some pretty decent technomagic folklovestories ?	[02:03]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:55; asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	chick falls in love with geek, he takes her home and tells her to fuck any toy in the lab except this one,	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	so of course she does, so now there's a copy,	[02:03]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	davai zdreanta desdemona etc.	[02:03]
asciilifeform	but it threatens to make some logical sense based on the tiny size of the 'phase space' of 'healthy/intelligent/strong' vs a world of possible organism, living and dead, which is none of these	[02:03]
asciilifeform	(recall the genetic algorithm discussions, and basic theory of mutation overall)	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform on my own guesswork it's a present but minor factor.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	think about women, your head thinks about women much easier/better. general fitness factor : big tits, tall, clear eyes, wide hips, etc etc.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	intelligence ?	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	veheheheeery vaguely related.	[02:05]
decimation	the intelligent one survived long enough to be presented	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	in some circumstances lack of intelligence is a distinctive fitting advantage.	[02:08]
decimation	no doubt. 'curiousity killed the cat'	[02:09]
asciilifeform	of intelligence, or the inevitable cost ?	[02:09]
asciilifeform	(it costs just like cpu costs)	[02:09]
mircea_popescu	well... you can now divorce these ?!	[02:09]
asciilifeform	well no. but it's rather like the difference between 'die in car crash' and 'die of exhaust fumes in garage'	[02:10]
asciilifeform	both - of car.	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	if survival depends on, say, spending a week in a fox hole paying the fuck attention, "intelligence", especially the dreamy "creative" sort the us is so enamoured with, is the topmost liability.	[02:10]
asciilifeform	hell, in that situation, you'd want to be... an insect. mosquito can bite in milliseconds; us, with our heavy circuitry, cannot ever equal this - even if limbs were short enough	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	actually i watched mosquitoes bite, and the head movement really resembles a tank tower.	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	it takes 2 seconds or so.	[02:11]
decimation	unless you dream up a robot ninja to fight on your behalf	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	decimation take your real self away from me!111	[02:11]
asciilifeform	perhaps i was thinking of a gnat, hm	[02:11]
decimation	hehe	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	well, scorpion, spider, etc.	[02:11]
mircea_popescu	plenty of good examples, no argument they move faster.	[02:12]
asciilifeform	the u.s. being collectively enamoured of anything that could be described as 'intelligence' is mega-news to me	[02:12]
mircea_popescu	ok. "sort of wankery they abusively call intelligence, cause they're dumb and ambitious" ?	[02:12]
asciilifeform	something like that. but now we've lost the specificity	[02:12]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061201 << ironically, this would actually explain the modern age.	[02:13]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 00:01:13; asciilifeform: re: teleporter: there were actually people who refused to travel on steam locomotives because the soul can't keep up and will get lost	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	i'd read a technopunk sf novel working on this exact premise.	[02:13]
asciilifeform	that would be a mega-novel, yes	[02:13]
asciilifeform	i've thought about it myself	[02:13]
gabriel_laddel	Which US is this where "intelligence" is discussed?	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	"and then everything failed because well... everyone was in a bureaucracy, because the souls were like loist behind"	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	gabriel_laddel reddit.	[02:13]
asciilifeform	perhaps somebody whose soul is still attached will write this book..	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	if i were 20 years younger i'd take the sluts to whatever cons on this premise.	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	we'd be a new sort of furry : the soulless! better than emo!	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	it'd prolly make a fucking tsunami of pointless.	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	any 16yo boys with a harem reading this ? go fer it!	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061224 << wait, joos aren't allowed to touch women ?!	[02:16]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:40; Adlai: probably to prevent physical contact with female flight attendants	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061226 << i agree, the first thing i'd want to ask my long lost twin is if they wanna fuck.	[02:16]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:53; jurov: i'd fuck myself. we'd only have to resort to reading /dev/random about who goes first.	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1061249 << enlighten me ?	[02:19]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 00:07:42; nubbins`: examine the utter failure of logic by this man	[02:19]
*	decimation bids good evening	[02:22]
decimation	!down decimation	[02:22]
*	assbot has kicked decimation from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.)	[02:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3662 @ 0.0002912 = 1.0664 BTC [+]	[02:25]
*	gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Killed buffer")	[02:34]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu guy's protecting himself from the cemetery he's flying over	[02:37]
nubbins`	by... wrapping himself in clear plastic	[02:37]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: notice that only the 'graded for effort' hypothesis explains why the cellophane 'counts' but not the plastic in the fuselage	[02:38]
asciilifeform	(because, clearly, the latter was not put there by the hassid fella)	[02:38]
nubbins`	"i do my own plastic work"	[02:38]
nubbins`	it might as well be "i can fly over a cemetery as long as i'm playing tetris on a nintendo game boy"	[02:39]
asciilifeform	there is a little hassid enclave here where i live. they have the 'eruv' (ceremonial rope boundary) that establishes a zone where they can sorta do things on shabat	[02:39]
asciilifeform	the interesting thing, from where i stand is, 1) the rope 'counts' but the sidewalk it follows, or the line of trees - do not	[02:39]
nubbins`	seems taking once-practical advice to the point of absurdity	[02:40]
asciilifeform	2) the rope is ill-maintained and often it is down or even in pieces	[02:40]
asciilifeform	and i have not been able to figure out why it is there on certain times but not others	[02:40]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` so ?	[02:44]
mats	https://www.sba-research.org/wp-content/uploads/publications/qrinception.pdf "QR Inception: Barcode-in-Barcode Attacks"	[02:44]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HcXF8H )	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	ahahah	[02:45]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[02:46]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` to begin, is your position that this doesn't work or that this doesn't make sense ?	[02:46]
nubbins`	my position is that wtf is a plastic bag doing that the fuselage isn't	[02:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61993 @ 0.00029437 = 18.2489 BTC [+] {3}	[02:47]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: provenance	[02:47]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` so you're arguing to ignorance ?	[02:47]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: once you understand how their religion works, it sorta clicks	[02:47]
asciilifeform	it's not just a perverse kind of engineering, where it's the plastic that matters	[02:47]
funkenstein_	QR code attacks <-- reminds me of "snowcrash"	[02:47]
asciilifeform	mats: packet-in-packet attack (see also, described in that neato phrack thing you linked to, i spent all day leafing through it, you wrecker you) or even frame-shift-mutation in genetics, etc	[02:48]
asciilifeform	or anybody who ever jumped in the middle of x86 instruction	[02:49]
mats	ya.	[02:49]
mats	reminds me a bit about goodspeed's zigbee hax	[02:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually that was the lulz of all time, "malware detectors". except they didn't detect stuff half-register shifted did they.	[02:49]
mats	https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/woot11/tech/final_files/Goodspeed.pdf	[02:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HcYRZx )	[02:50]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 1001 variations on that theme	[02:50]
asciilifeform	!s polymorphic	[02:50]
assbot	2 results for 'polymorphic' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=polymorphic	[02:50]
mircea_popescu	"oh, ffcd 21aa blabla ? you mean cd31 aaetc ?"	[02:51]
asciilifeform	aha.	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	"i dunno, never seen ffcd or 21aa in malware b4!!1"	[02:51]
asciilifeform	and folks still use signature-based 'detection'	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	myeah. because hey, enumerate badness.	[02:51]
asciilifeform	because 'whaddayamean i'm to be hanged for buying ibm'	[02:52]
asciilifeform	the funny part is that crapware artists, by and large, oblige	[02:52]
asciilifeform	and continue to bake idiocies readily detectable this way and not polymorphic one bit	[02:52]
asciilifeform	with 500kB of visual stoodio crud	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	the caught ones, at any rate.	[02:53]
asciilifeform	the intelligence of the hunter and the deer are, it seems, linked.	[02:53]
asciilifeform	neither finds it worthwhile to rocket far away from the other	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/793d96d71ffd561915f8c9c49f321e8d/tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg	[02:53]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HcZCBZ )	[02:53]
asciilifeform	(typically0	[02:53]
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mircea_popescu	!up mogreen	[02:54]
-assbot-	You voiced mogreen for 30 minutes.	[02:54]
*	assbot gives voice to mogreen	[02:54]
mats	http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2015/03/20/260513/operation-to-retake-tikrit-from.html	[02:56]
assbot	ISTANBUL: Operation to retake Tikrit from Islamic State stalled by heavy casualties, discord \| Iraq \| McClatchy DC ... ( http://bit.ly/1HcZXoe )	[02:56]
mats	ha. called it.	[02:56]
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mircea_popescu	lol.	[02:56]
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mircea_popescu	check itr out, b-a outintels dod.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	can anyone identify the weapon in the photo? looks like recoillessrifle - but which.	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	alf will, true to form, magick this success away.	[02:57]
asciilifeform	l0l success is when they're here	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	no. they made their prediction, we made ours.	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	they lost.	[02:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44150 @ 0.00029637 = 13.0847 BTC [+] {2}	[02:58]
asciilifeform	wai they made a prediction ?	[02:58]
*	asciilifeform behind the times	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	well they did send the fucking thing eh ?	[02:58]
asciilifeform	does this necessarily imply a prediction ?	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[02:58]
asciilifeform	perhaps usg sent the cannon fodder to die	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless.	[02:58]
mats	looks like a Carl Gustav	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	maybe she cheated on you because she loves you.	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	she took the cock, she took the chances.	[02:59]
asciilifeform	mats: that one's shorter, no ?	[02:59]
mats	you're right	[02:59]
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asciilifeform	found it, 'spg9'	[03:00]
asciilifeform	(СПГ-9)	[03:01]
mats	http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/fighting-isis-in-iraq-how-british-soldiers-and-other-european-troops-are-helping-train-the-peshmerga-10096952.html << based on this, i thought it may be a folgore	[03:02]
assbot	Fighting Isis in Iraq: How British soldiers and other European troops are helping train the Peshmerga - Middle East - World - The Independent	[03:02]
mats	a sign of sleep deprivation. night	[03:03]
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nubbins`	k, nite	[03:07]
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asciilifeform	incidentally, any serious amateur historian of political engineering skullduggery will enjoy an account of the life and death of the recoilless rifle in '30s ussr.	[03:13]
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asciilifeform	(built in vast numbers, apparently all maldesigned, head engineer goes from hero - at one point, monopolizer of virtually all cannon factories - to zero - shot in the head - within 7 years)	[03:14]
asciilifeform	not one recoilless cannon was fired, afaik, by ussr in ww2.	[03:14]
asciilifeform	all melted down.	[03:14]
asciilifeform	it is worth noting what precisely kurchevsky (the engineer) did.	[03:15]
asciilifeform	went with 'conversative' design where he took ordinary cannon of whatever kind, and sawed off the breech, replacing with funnel.	[03:15]
asciilifeform	so kept heavy barrel	[03:16]
asciilifeform	and retained the unwieldy bulk	[03:16]
asciilifeform	(no modern recoillness cannon works this way)	[03:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28350 @ 0.00029411 = 8.338 BTC [-] {2}	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	more interesting is, why did he get away with it for long enough to become a prolbem	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	i guess i wouldn't make a very palatable politburo member.	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	but in other news, http://33.media.tumblr.com/acf990fa23a1a30bad4ca6c6e21af8a6/tumblr_ndu41h5Ot61ttr86so1_500.gif	[03:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ATY4ch )	[03:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12215 @ 0.00029808 = 3.641 BTC [+]	[04:01]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[10:30]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[10:30]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[10:30]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[10:30]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[10:31]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060745 << for the record, this user count bs... see stuff like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-03-2015#1056265	[10:39]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 21:10:47; felipelalli: mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored?	[10:39]
assbot	Logged on 18-03-2015 05:09:03; mircea_popescu: " Content preview: Dear Alare Kool, thank you for registering at Bitstamp exchange service! At this point you have just contributed a great deal to future of decentralized monetary market."	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	they have no users. just because the whatsapp scam was pushed by fb on the grounds of "users" (by the way, did the fantabulous "growth rate" continue after the acquisition ?) does not mean that the same sort of fraud will either work again in the future or is in itself any sort of value.	[10:39]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[10:40]
nubbins`	alare kool... from bangladesh?!!?	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	i have nfi.	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060780 << drunk anger does that. drink more water	[10:42]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 21:34:56; BingoBoingo: I have the most intense hangover	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060802 << layflat for one volume would run you about 1200ish	[10:43]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 21:40:35; ascii_field: not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060821 << haha win.	[10:44]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 21:44:19; danielpbarron: basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want	[10:44]
nubbins`	incidentally, here's a layflat binding	[10:46]
kakobrekla	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/18/want_to_dodge_nsa_supply_chain_taps_ask_cisco_for_a_dead_drop/	[10:46]
nubbins`	http://www.halstan.co.uk/news/images/20130219-Binding-Otabind.jpg	[10:46]
assbot	Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1DI9V3o )	[10:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DI9W7c )	[10:46]
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mircea_popescu	!up Tetra113	[10:47]
-assbot-	You voiced Tetra113 for 30 minutes.	[10:47]
*	assbot gives voice to Tetra113	[10:47]
nubbins`	as you can see, the biggest thing is to not adhere the spine of the book block	[10:47]
nubbins`	downside is that the book block is now much less securely held in place	[10:48]
nubbins`	one cm-thick strip of glue on each outer page	[10:49]
Tetra113	good afternoon	[10:49]
nubbins`	here's another lay-flat: http://www.techscribe.co.uk/techw/images/layflat.jpg	[10:49]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1EzsxNV )	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060850 << obligatory http://www.amosnews.ro/arhiva/joc-erotic-terminat-tragic-17-11-2005	[10:49]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 21:48:38; ascii_field: in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba	[10:49]
assbot	Joc erotic terminat tragic ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzsxO5 )	[10:49]
nubbins`	"after a colleague introduced them to the anus compressor hose"	[10:50]
nubbins`	dat machine translate	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` 50 yo blue collar woman went after shift with coworkers, had compressed air hose stuck up ass.	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	died.	[10:50]
Tetra113	i was spending alot of time reading about bitcoin shares/stocks	[10:50]
kakobrekla	!s french block	[10:50]
assbot	0 results for 'french block' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=french+block	[10:50]
nubbins`	i wonder had she ever seen an air compressor in use before?	[10:50]
kakobrekla	https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150318/06273130352/french-government-starts-blocking-websites-with-views-govt-doesnt-like.shtml	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	Tetra113 where ?	[10:50]
assbot	French Government Starts Blocking Websites With Views The Gov't Doesn't Like \| Techdirt ... ( http://bit.ly/1EzsAt6 )	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` well it was her place of work eh.	[10:51]
nubbins`	specifically, had she ever seen the release valve opened on a full one?	[10:51]
Tetra113	mircea_popescu, mostly sites that appear written by you lol	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	lol	[10:51]
Tetra113	but anyway	[10:51]
nubbins`	if so, why in the world did she think her ass was a good place for that to happen?	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla i don't get it, is the french govt running an isp ?!	[10:51]
nubbins`	they're apparently running all of them 8)	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` i dunno man, to me it's the crowning achievement of a particular sort of technopunk, which is what 50 years of soviet industry really is.	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` you know just like who ? just like putin, except not the real one, the factitious version that "is holding country back" jurov was talking about.	[10:52]
kakobrekla	idk imma guess they just change the native dns and using an alternative one fixes this	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla used to work in china. for the first coupla years.	[10:52]
nubbins`	given that more people are familiar with changing DNS servers as a result of wanting to watch american netflix, you'll see the turnaround on these things get shorter	[10:53]
nubbins`	(you'd be amazed how many people who don't know what DNS stands for know what it does these days)	[10:54]
danielpbarron	height=290070 vs height=214008	[10:55]
Tetra113	mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	what's that one trying to achieve ?	[10:56]
Tetra113	profit?	[10:56]
Tetra113	hehe	[10:56]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` noit that amazed, history of internet.	[10:56]
nubbins`	guess so hey	[10:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00027537 = 17.2657 BTC [-] {2}	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	you'd be amazed how many monkeys click the blue e, too.	[10:57]
nubbins`	soon it won't be blue or an e!	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	the monkeys ain't going anywhere.	[10:57]
nubbins`	nope	[10:58]
nubbins`	meantime, if anyone happens to have come across a guide to Smyth Sewing (re: bookbinding), would be forever in your debt	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	i wonder idly if anyone even realises that the turing machine space has by now been explored MUCH more in depth than the human genetic space, for instance.	[10:59]
nubbins`	remarkably hard to find solid info on	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	ie, we've built a much larger % of the computers that could be than there's been people alive as a % of the people that could be.	[10:59]
nubbins`	i'd imagine so	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` https://vimeo.com/42600794 ?	[11:01]
assbot	Process: Smyth Sewn Book Binding on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIbrCD )	[11:01]
nubbins`	ugh	[11:01]
chetty	mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?// bitcoin company???????????	[11:02]
nubbins`	have seen that video	[11:02]
nubbins`	shows nothing	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	well that's all i had :D	[11:02]
mircea_popescu	"In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular security hole	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	should be glorified or cared about as being any more "special" than a	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	random spectacular crash due to bad locking."	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	ahh, the sweet innocence of presnowden.	[11:03]
nubbins`	on the surface, it looks like a plain kettle-stitch binding, with the addition of those stress strips	[11:04]
Tetra113	chetty, yes obviously there has to be some company generating the value??	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	the crash is only important if it can be used to poison the stack. otherwise... it's just annoying.	[11:04]
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mircea_popescu	Tetra113 so then find them and buy chunks.	[11:04]
nubbins`	Tetra113 ^	[11:04]
nubbins`	generally, one gets in on shares by buying them	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060883 << i thought it was hotels.	[11:06]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 22:02:49; danielpbarron: one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store	[11:06]
Tetra113	so nubbins` where did you buy them?	[11:07]
nubbins`	Tetra113 what is "them"?	[11:07]
Tetra113	shares?	[11:07]
nubbins`	shares of what?	[11:08]
nubbins`	microsoft? cisco?	[11:08]
nubbins`	figure out your question in full before you start asking it, maybe	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	Tetra113 seriously, this isn't etrade in a different color scheme.	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	etrade only exists because that model's practically dead.	[11:10]
*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062072 << well maybe one day you run into a people. it's not impossible, even in tasmania!	[11:11]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 07:35:50; cazalla: mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen. <<< pete_dushenski, PeterL might be interested, personally i think while nubbins` would do a great job, it's something i would look at once, put in cupboard and forget about	[11:11]
mircea_popescu	!s tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg	[11:12]
assbot	0 results for 'tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg	[11:12]
danielpbarron	i was planning on handing them out at porcfest as i attempt to interview people	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	lies ben_vulpes :D	[11:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34398 @ 0.00027468 = 9.4484 BTC [-] {2}	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron cool plan.	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062107 << moving eh ? all the better.	[11:14]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 12:59:54; mats: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zqrqe/update_on_my_foia_request_for_the_first_us/ >> "Pursuant to 28 C.F.R. § 16.8(d) and (f) , we initiated business submitter notification procedures.to provide the winning bidder (Tim Draper) an opportunity to object to disclosure of the purchase price. Mr. Draper submitted written objections to disclosure. "	[11:14]
danielpbarron	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/ << is this a qntra article?	[11:15]
assbot	Withdrawals halted as stolen evolution coins make their way to BTC-e : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1DId0jX )	[11:15]
mircea_popescu	may be yeah.	[11:16]
mircea_popescu	doesn't seem a terribly legit reason to stop withdrawals, who knows if they're piggybacking on it to excuse their own failure.	[11:17]
danielpbarron	it's a horrible reason to stop withdrawals	[11:17]
danielpbarron	and the only thing it hurts is themselves	[11:18]
mircea_popescu	so go for it.	[11:18]
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mircea_popescu	in any case this "we attack bitcoin fungibility and expect to remain in business" angle has to be dispelled.	[11:18]
mircea_popescu	no one ever will survive trying to make one bitcoin unequal to another bitcoin.	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	this is a capital offense. mass arson, rape and murder is a tea party by comparison.	[11:19]
nubbins`	i wonder will they halt withdrawals when draper's stolen SR bitcoins start moving to exchanges?	[11:20]
nubbins`	by my count, guy's got a hundred bucks belonging to me	[11:20]
mircea_popescu	lol	[11:20]
nubbins`	actually, that'd be an interesting trace.	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	but this is exactly it, usg trying to insert itself into the process by "blessing bitcoins"	[11:21]
nubbins`	^	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	much like you know, "you can'tr fuck this woman until this old man has sprinkled water on her"	[11:21]
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mircea_popescu	"orly ? "	[11:21]
nubbins`	you can't be in charge until you fill out this paperwork!	[11:21]
mircea_popescu	"how about you fill in the paperwork while i keep on being in charge."	[11:21]
nubbins`	heh	[11:22]
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danielpbarron	Update: BTC-e admins have reached out to Coin Fire to state that withdrawals have been re-enabled and that they have no further comments regarding the situation moving forward regarding this or any other security issue.	[11:23]
danielpbarron	is it still an article if they tapped out?	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	only if you absolutely want to.	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	"btc-e briefly stupid this morning", i guess.	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	it wouldn't necessartily be much more than editorializing, up to cazalla if he wants more of that or more news to balance things out.	[11:24]
danielpbarron	the story might be all the FEDs that swarm to reddit saying things like "see bitcoin isn't anonymous you better just use dollars!"	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	this is not terribly factual.	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	not every poltroonish german's a gestapo agent, not every poltroonish soviet's a kgb agent and not every reddit idjit's working for teh soup.	[11:27]
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nubbins`	anyone happen to have any of the btc addresses used for the first sr auction?	[11:27]
mircea_popescu	1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX ?	[11:28]
mircea_popescu	going to 1Ez69SnzzmePmZX3WpEzMKTrcBF2gpNQ55, never spent.	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	since w/e, 9 months ago.	[11:30]
funkenstein_	btc-e grabs some easy publicity perhaps	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	sort-of like putting cockroaches in your pizza for easy publicity.	[11:30]
funkenstein_	so no bitcoin numismatics then? 2 BTC for my coin which was mined in 2010?	[11:31]
danielpbarron	how does that even work? you sell the private key?	[11:31]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` is the local numismatist	[11:31]
nubbins`	^	[11:32]
funkenstein_	no i just transfer it as usual	[11:32]
nubbins`	i'm not sure that's the word you're looking for	[11:32]
danielpbarron	then you'd destroy all those coin-days which i thought was the thing you were trying to sell	[11:33]
nubbins`	pedigree coins	[11:33]
funkenstein_	not coin days but mining origin	[11:34]
mircea_popescu	http://dpaste.com/087PNN7 << best story ever, 10/10 would hire indian excel expert to literaturate again.	[11:34]
assbot	dpaste: 087PNN7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIeYAC )	[11:34]
nubbins`	funkenstein_ no better than fresh-minted coins?	[11:35]
funkenstein_	maybe you'd rather pay more for fresh minted coins, i hear some people prefer them	[11:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00027742 = 17.4497 BTC [+] {2}	[11:36]
funkenstein_	based on hash rental rates	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind << you know this is easily the most disjointed, ridiculous and overall pointless piece of crap. "out of whack" three times ? the whole thing's an exercise in content-free derpage.	[11:37]
assbot	THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND \| Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIfi2v )	[11:37]
funkenstein_	mircea_popescu, i thought it was interesting, but i guess not enough to finish it	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	there's some reasonable if banal shit floating around in a sea of very annoying nonsense. wtf is "out of whack" even supposed to mean, and since when is an ipad a better model of computing than a desktop.	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, whatevs.	[11:40]
funkenstein_	lol sounds about right	[11:40]
funkenstein_	We're beginning to come to grips with the idea that your brain is not this well-organized hierarchical control system where everything is in order, a very dramatic vision of bureaucracy. <-- i liked that part	[11:40]
mircea_popescu	yes, obviously, people working on computational theories of human intelligence are basically correct and broadly irrelevant, yes people who were working on this 30 years ago are too stupiud to follow it, because hey, they didn't grow up with a computer, like i did, and yes culture consists of a lot of fleas and relatively little treasures.	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	and yes the brain's not a leviathan. nothing is. that only exists as a first line of fantasy, no place ever worked like that except in the bookish literotica of state-wankers.	[11:42]
nubbins`	yeah tim draper owes me at least a few bucks	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	about as sensible as the "paradise" of xtians, or ragnarok or w/e.	[11:42]
funkenstein_	some testing notes for mod6 http://dpaste.com/1EP63W5	[11:44]
assbot	dpaste: 1EP63W5: release notes, by funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIg1R9 )	[11:44]
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funkenstein_	and some bloggage fors ya http://frass.woodcoin.org/?p=39	[11:54]
assbot	The Dollar Market and a Game Theory Example \| Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1IaOruB )	[11:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00027609 = 6.4053 BTC [-]	[11:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22973 @ 0.0002759 = 6.3383 BTC [-] {2}	[11:57]
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[]bot	Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1131/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,907.	[12:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51450 @ 0.00027456 = 14.1261 BTC [-] {2}	[12:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00028 = 7.784 BTC [+] {3}	[12:24]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[12:26]
nubbins`	"This second pillar of Legion Theory might appear to be an unnecessary complication to our model. Dare we say, an “intellectual wank”. "	[12:26]
nubbins`	i like these guys	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell funkenstein_ could that thing stop being disqus	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	;;google "Legion Theory"	[12:29]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[12:30]
gribble	Legion Theory - Theory & Psychology - Sage Publications: ; Legion Theory 1 Legion Theory: A meta-psychology Mark L ...: ; Legion Theory:	[12:30]
mircea_popescu	heh mk.	[12:30]
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thestringpuller	lol slush adds css to site everyone is like "this is best site ever"	[13:03]
thestringpuller	smoke and mirrors make the derps go oooh and ahh	[13:04]
fluffypony	OMG I MUST SWITCH	[13:04]
fluffypony	CSS	[13:04]
fluffypony	JS	[13:04]
fluffypony	BEST	[13:04]
fluffypony	EVER	[13:04]
thestringpuller	^- pretty good impression fluffypony	[13:06]
fluffypony	I try	[13:06]
fluffypony	my redditard is a little rusty	[13:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9458 @ 0.00028129 = 2.6604 BTC [+]	[13:07]
Adlai	dogecoin rallied after they added css3 moon rocket upvote animations	[13:17]
fluffypony	so this is good for bitcoin?	[13:18]
Adlai	the next difficulty adjustment is critical	[13:18]
thestringpuller	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/	[13:19]
fluffypony	lol Adlai	[13:19]
danielpbarron	thestringpuller, they resumed withdrawls	[13:20]
danielpbarron	someone should tell the exit scammers about bitbit as an option for mixing	[13:24]
Adlai	how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site	[13:25]
danielpbarron	yeah but you can't see it on the block chain	[13:28]
mats	there are private bets	[13:35]
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nubbins`	so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up to bitcoind itself	[13:37]
nubbins`	at which point incompatibilities in ld crop up and grind the thing to a halt	[13:37]
kakobrekla	private bets are public, just need a password to request a deposit address	[13:37]
kakobrekla	also, there are none.	[13:37]
kakobrekla	i dont recall if there ever was an approved one	[13:38]
nubbins`	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=813233.msg10841000#msg10841000	[13:38]
assbot	Casascius 10BTC Silver Round /w Gold B ... ( http://bit.ly/1BikwLq )	[13:38]
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mircea_popescu	how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site << not how that works.	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla i dun recall one either.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	not sure why we put it in, but i think it was the usual "customer request" stuff	[13:51]
Adlai	let's say i've identified a certain address A as coins that are "not welcome here". i see it move coin to address B, so i sniff around and notice that B is a deposit address on bitbet, with winnings going to C. i add C to the list of unwelcome money.	[13:53]
*	Adlai is equally amused from "lalala taint doesn't exist" and "lalala bitcoin doesn't exist"	[13:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-]	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	you really should read the logs, this was discussed ad nauseam.	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	address A with your "taint" may lose to address B. what now ?	[13:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-]	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	it's not a matter of "lalala taint doesn't exit". taint exists exactly as much and exactly for the reasons god "exists"	[13:56]
Adlai	then the idiot using a betting site as a tumbler, got what they deserved	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	some idiots can't cope otherwise.	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	Adlai didja eat dumb this morning ? i put 100 btc on one side, of your taint, and 100 btc on the other side, you don't know about. if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track.	[13:57]
*	Adlai sighs	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	but really, the notion of taint is only recurring because people are stupid, and do not wish to think. otherwise, taint is meaningless.	[13:58]
Adlai	taint in as meaningful as the person you're trying to do business with thinks it is	[13:59]
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Adlai	but whether or not it's meaningful to a specific incident, it still exists	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	it exists to the degree the madonna-whore exists.	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	yes, some idiots have trouble with reality, replace it with neurosis. this to the detriment of them and anyone trusting them.	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	like any other stereotype, like the nigger thief/rapist, the dumb woman, the jew cooking christian children etc, it "exists" in the minds of the stupid,	[14:01]
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mircea_popescu	and it recurs because stupid is really a very narrow space.	[14:01]
Adlai	no. you're confusing between value in the minds of people holding a bill, and fingerprints on its surface. one exists in the mind, the other is evidence. it could be misleading evidence, but it is there.	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	taint != fingerprints.	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	in that fingerprints are on the bill, and taint is in the mind, wholly imagined.	[14:04]
Adlai	do we agree that utxos exist?	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[14:05]
Adlai	ok, what i'm calling "taint" is the tree constructed by recursively collecting the inputs that led in to each utxo	[14:07]
Adlai	a better word for this could be "signing history", but whatever it is, it exists. you can ask what the history of any utxo is, and you get a graph of signatures	[14:07]
Adlai	blockchain.info pander to idiots by misrepresenting this as taint(address1,address2) = percentage	[14:08]
Adlai	it's much more complicated than a single number, same as you can't scalarize "trust" - but taint as i've defined it exists, in the blockchain - outside of the mind.	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	no, what you're calling taint is a particularly dumb implementation of "smart contracts", ie, overloading txn with "meaning" that's really in your own head. see also http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1058300	[14:09]
assbot	Logged on 19-03-2015 21:32:58; fluffypony: "release the money to mircea_popescu if I send the money to mircea_popescu" is about the sum total of it	[14:09]
Adlai	uh what?	[14:10]
Adlai	this has nothing to do with it	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	uniquely among dumb implementation of "smart contracts", this doesn't even involve the actual parties to the txn, but third parties.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	you wish. it's exactly what it is.	[14:10]
Adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-02-2015#1018795	[14:11]
assbot	Logged on 14-02-2015 18:06:59; mircea_popescu: lol kay.	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	the "signing history" is entirely meaningless. the TOTAL information it conveys is already conveyed, and spent. there is NO MORE in there, at all, nothing whatsoever.	[14:11]
Adlai	lalala!	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	hey, what can i tell you.	[14:12]
Adlai	"i understand what you're saying and insist on attacking a strawman"	[14:13]
nubbins`	Adlai	[14:13]
Adlai	nubbins`	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	i understand what you are saying, and i also understand why it's stupid. you have the option to pretend like you don't see it, or not. nothing i can do thar.	[14:13]
nubbins`	perhaps i can explain this succinctly, as i had this same convo some time ago	[14:13]
nubbins`	let's use an example	[14:13]
nubbins`	https://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/	[14:13]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No \| closed 1 month 4 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYAYXH )	[14:13]
nubbins`	examine the first "no" bet, which won 0.05280995 btc	[14:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.0002726 = 2.7533 BTC [-] {2}	[14:14]
nubbins`	input address is 16u2vFY3w6j18KZ6WxtiJpGeZfXnyyK7NM	[14:14]
nubbins`	payout address is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm	[14:14]
nubbins`	here's the link between the two:	[14:14]
nubbins`	https://bitiodine.net/a2a/16u2vFY3w6j18KZ6WxtiJpGeZfXnyyK7NM/1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm	[14:14]
assbot	BitIodine - Find paths ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYBchq )	[14:14]
Adlai	no, here's the link: https://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/#b2	[14:15]
assbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No \| closed 1 month 4 days ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1MYBhlj )	[14:15]
nubbins`	so now you're left with... some random betting website that says the two addresses are owned by the same entity, with no further evidence to back it up	[14:15]
nubbins`	that's not a link	[14:15]
nubbins`	i could just create a static copy of bitbet w/ a web crawler and create all the "links" i want	[14:16]
nubbins`	does that mean they exist?	[14:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00027237 = 2.5194 BTC [-]	[14:16]
mircea_popescu	i very much doubt that after he ignored the "if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track." bit he's in a position to grok this one, but hey.	[14:16]
*	mircea_popescu watches curiously.	[14:16]
nubbins`	there's nothing on the blockchain to link the two addresses	[14:16]
nubbins`	and if there's nothing on the blockchain to link them	[14:16]
nubbins`	then you're just trusting the word of some guy who runs a website.	[14:17]
Adlai	there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	can we move to "celestial teapot" ?	[14:17]
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nubbins`	okay	[14:17]
mircea_popescu	(pls do not lalala-ignore my celestial teapot, it triggers me)	[14:17]
nubbins`	so let's go back to unwelcome money	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	teapot money ?	[14:18]
nubbins`	why is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm unwelcome money? because it's listed as an output address on http://bitbet.us?	[14:18]
assbot	BitBet ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9Uteb )	[14:18]
trinque	RagnarDanneskjol \| trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. << no problemo; deedbot- works for me	[14:19]
mircea_popescu	fucking hell, "unwelcome money" is about as self-consistent as "human dignity" or "representative democracy"	[14:19]
Adlai	the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus	[14:19]
nubbins`	groan	[14:19]
Adlai	the "..." *defense	[14:19]
Adlai	ie, the information is there, should somebody wish to act on it	[14:19]
nubbins`	so then why don't we just ask mp to create a dummy bet page, and list tim draper's stash as the output?	[14:20]
nubbins`	his coins will be ruined	[14:20]
nubbins`	right?	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	Adlai are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs ?	[14:20]
Adlai	not if he doesn't touch the winnings	[14:20]
nubbins`	now you're talking about electric anthills	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	cause i am really not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death.	[14:20]
Adlai	electric anthill = rule of thugs	[14:20]
nubbins`	WHAT WINNINGS?	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	so then why is ANY oif it relevant lol.	[14:21]
nubbins`	https://blockchain.info/address/1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm	[14:21]
assbot	Bitcoin Address 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9UT4i )	[14:21]
nubbins`	show me where the "winnings" were transferred	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	obviously whatever random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims and pretend like they hold water. so what of it ?	[14:21]
nubbins`	all i see is some random coin moving around	[14:21]
mircea_popescu	this isn't something to be approached rationally.	[14:21]
Adlai	if you know that an enemy is profiling you, one approach is simply to evade the profile	[14:22]
nubbins`	Adlai a random website taking two random unlinked transactions and placing them side-by-side on a random page does not constitute even the /scent/ of proof	[14:22]
mircea_popescu	Adlai never interrupt the enemy while he's making a mistake.	[14:23]
nubbins`	i don't know how simpler to put it	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	let 'em "profile" until they fall over.	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	i guess it's "good for the economy". heck, they're tracking "uniques", for all the good that did anyone. we still have to see the extra ounce of soap or w/e that was sold because of it, but hey.	[14:24]
nubbins`	this is like pasting up a leaflet that says "main street intersects 3rd avenue" and then arguing that's the intersection you lost your wallet, even though the map says impossible	[14:24]
nubbins`	because main and 3rd run parallel	[14:24]
Adlai	one approach to combating terrorism is to refuse to be terrorized, on a societal level. another, on an individual level, is not to "ask for it". these are not mutually exclusive.	[14:24]
nubbins`	"but the leaflet says this intersection exists, so we must investigate the crime"	[14:25]
nubbins`	geez, where'd the counter-argument go	[14:26]
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mircea_popescu	Adlai wait, what ?	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	what you're describing is the exact avenue to encourage terrorism.	[14:27]
trinque	look at how she was dressed; the slut was asking for it -> niqab	[14:27]
nubbins`	hm	[14:28]
nubbins`	is the intersection of these two approaches to STFU and take whatever happens?	[14:28]
nubbins`	do you measure your other-cheek-turning in x1000 rpm or what?	[14:28]
Adlai	in the case of 'taint', it's: treat bitcoin as fungible, but don't make life easier for those who don't	[14:29]
nubbins`	<+Adlai> there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"	[14:29]
nubbins`	try again	[14:29]
*	OneNomos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[14:29]
nubbins`	protip: if you can't state your position...	[14:29]
*	Adlai used that word intentionally	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	im pretty sure no-ones making life easier for idiots, here.	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	hence the bitbet model, hence the reusing of addresses etc etc, numerous specific measures to hinder the little solace idiots a la power rangers etc are trying to give the "defungibilize bitcoin" party.	[14:30]
nubbins`	my being here is probably making life harder for at least a handful of people	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	not that any of these are critical, but yes, some hopes are fun to ruin.	[14:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80218 @ 0.00027598 = 22.1386 BTC [+] {2}	[14:32]
nubbins`	occasionally i burn fun-sized blocks of btc just to make things a bit more tangly	[14:32]
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asciilifeform	the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus << aha. this was also my objection, if anyone recalls.	[14:38]
asciilifeform	list tim draper's stash as the output? his coins will be ruined << no, they won't. because he's aryan.	[14:38]
asciilifeform	are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs << thugs	[14:38]
asciilifeform	not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death << what exterminator do i call. we're overrun.	[14:39]
Adlai	G.BUST	[14:40]
asciilifeform	random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims << here lies the boojum. it isn't unsubstantiated. mr thug is looking for which arse to stuff the soldering iron in, rather than trying to prove something to a jury	[14:40]
asciilifeform	the info on, e.g., 'bitbet' www, -could- be random garbage - but it -isn't-	[14:41]
asciilifeform	this isn't, again, a jurist's 'reasonable doubt' standard	[14:42]
asciilifeform	it's thug logic, and some of us live in thugschwitz	[14:42]
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nubbins`	then i guess you better not use bit(bet/coin)	[14:43]
*	asciilifeform waits for mircea_popescu to recite the proverbial 'if it hurts, don't do that' doctoring.	[14:43]
nubbins`	XD	[14:43]
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mod6	<+funkenstein_> some testing notes for mod6 http://dpaste.com/1EP63W5 << thanks for the testing notes!	[14:45]
assbot	dpaste: 1EP63W5: release notes, by funkenstein ... ( http://bit.ly/1C9ZpzN )	[14:45]
danielpbarron	oh mod6 just the guy i want to see	[14:46]
danielpbarron	how would i go about compiling your bitcoind for macppc?	[14:46]
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mod6	<+nubbins`> so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up to bitcoind itself << ah! ok. log/breadcrumbs help here : log output with uname -a and other important info is good to capture for a solid bug report.	[14:47]
mod6	thanks for testing nubbins`	[14:47]
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mod6	danielpbarron: hmm. well, first, you'd have to get the libs to build for the correct arch. does mac still use ppc? thought it was x86? but either way, you get the libs built, and then there might be some tweaks that can be done to get the makefile into shape for osx or w/e.	[14:49]
*	mod6 looks	[14:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33835 @ 0.00027237 = 9.2156 BTC [-]	[14:49]
danielpbarron	i have some old macs	[14:50]
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mod6	ah so PPC	[14:52]
mod6	well, we'd have to spend some time just making sure we have the correct configure/compile flags set for openssl/bdb/boost and then create a patch or derivative of auto.sh for ppc-mac	[14:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53478 @ 0.00027683 = 14.8043 BTC [+] {2}	[14:54]
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mod6	then a makefile.osx would have to be modified and re-added to the package once working.	[14:54]
mod6	im probably least clue'd on the mac side. if I had an environment to play on for a while, i could probably get it to work.	[14:55]
asciilifeform	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/19/cansecwest_talk_bioses_hack << mega-l0l	[14:55]
assbot	Noobs can pwn world's most popular BIOSes in two minutes • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1BFRvJw )	[14:55]
mod6	but others might have faster/better-luck/more knowledge on that than ole mod6	[14:55]
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mod6	http://www.boost.org/users/history/version_1_52_0.html << so it says that osx is supported here, but does this only indicate that it supports x86 of OSX?	[14:58]
mod6	looks like it :/	[14:59]
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danielpbarron	what about VAX ?	[14:59]
danielpbarron	http://www.openbsd.org/vax.html	[14:59]
assbot	OpenBSD/vax ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca1PhR )	[14:59]
danielpbarron	OpenBSD still supports this for the purpose of finding bugs that would otherwise go unnoticed on modern speedy systems	[14:59]
mod6	eh, i'm not sure on VAX either. i've never used it. it doesn't look like boost supports it.	[15:00]
mod6	but maybe someday we can get builds/patches created to build/configure for these seperate arch's. who knows.	[15:01]
danielpbarron	https://books.google.com/books?id=PN6Xy9zWAbsC&pg=PR36&lpg=PR36	[15:01]
assbot	Absolute OpenBSD, 2nd Edition: UNIX for the Practical Paranoid - Michael W. Lucas - Google Boeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1BFRIwk )	[15:01]
danielpbarron	https://i.imgur.com/nup9VqD.png << for those who hate google	[15:03]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BFRKo2 )	[15:03]
mod6	yeah. ok. so supporting stuff like VAX/Amiga/SGI/Sparc etc are going to take time and resources ... maybe someday we get there, who knows. but first we just wanna get it working for like x86 obsd, and other Tier1 platforms first.	[15:04]
mod6	heck, i'd love to get an R.I. running on an UltraSPARC II box or something.	[15:05]
mod6	it's just not time well spent for me atm since no one even has that stuff any more. :]	[15:05]
danielpbarron	yeah obviously get it working on whatever most people use these days	[15:05]
mod6	i saw thay you're getting close to 300k blocks on pogo, that's great work. keep it up!	[15:06]
danielpbarron	and if you liked that paragraph i quoted there, it's from "Absolute OpenBSD" by Michael W. Lucas	[15:06]
mod6	i feel like the pogo is hugely important for getting a large amount of nodes out there with 0.5.3.1, that's really exciting.	[15:06]
danielpbarron	i own this book and recommend it to others	[15:06]
mod6	i've gotta get one going here myself.	[15:07]
mod6	yeah I read the two paragraphs there "portability" and "power".	[15:07]
danielpbarron	apparently you can read the book on google? idk how that works	[15:08]
mod6	it seems like a decent read. i feel like i my have read that book like a million-internet years ago.	[15:08]
danielpbarron	says you can buy it for 30+ USD on the side	[15:08]
mod6	im old-school. i like real books.	[15:08]
mod6	but yeah, i've certainly seen it in stores.	[15:09]
danielpbarron	maybe it's because that particular section is part of the pre-page numbers section	[15:09]
danielpbarron	roman numeral page numbers	[15:09]
mod6	yeah, i saw that. usually on-line, you get a certain amount of sections to preview.	[15:09]
mod6	(for free)	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there's no relation between addresses and identities.	[15:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: except when a man is sitting on a stake, and they have his decrypted wallet ?	[15:10]
mod6	huh, weird, this one looks like you can read a lot of it...	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	but this is ex post facto.	[15:10]
asciilifeform	or, say, sr is busted and a number of addresses turns up there. then link between them and sr.	[15:11]
asciilifeform	am i missing something ?	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	"them" addresses. so ?	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	you gonna arrest an address ?	[15:12]
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mircea_popescu	"The point is less about how vendors don't fix the problems, and more how the vendors' fixes are going un-applied by users, corporations, and governments." << orly. how about the point is all about how "vendors" create bugs.	[15:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00027237 = 4.4941 BTC [-]	[15:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: need the magic eyeglasses to see that point, apparently	[15:13]
asciilifeform	because nobody but us appears to	[15:13]
asciilifeform	'apply fixes, fixes, now!111!111'	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	"The LightEater attack would take an unskilled attacker such as a maid or border guard two minutes of physical access to a target laptop."	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	ahem	[15:14]
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mircea_popescu	anyway, since this "taint" bs keeps popping up, maybe a retrospective is a good idea. like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-06-2014#716247	[15:18]
assbot	Logged on 13-06-2014 02:34:16; mircea_popescu: anyway, the fact that bitcoin is not actually traceable, and all the sophistry of taint can at most produce persuasion is one of the largest points of pressure applied by bitcoin to human society. it may result in the "reasonable doubt" standard being taken out.	[15:18]
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mircea_popescu	and where the heck's that 2013 bitbet discussion	[15:21]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2014#470127 still not it hot damn	[15:24]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2014 16:43:16; mircea_popescu: since you can by design make zero-delta bets, and since the fee is 1%... bitbet is partly the reason why mixer services sort-of died last year, i'd guess.	[15:24]
asciilifeform	re: bios: every portable computer i've opened in the past decade or so had the system bios stored in an eight-legged spi eeprom. one of the legs is a write-enable. in principle, not so hard to desolder & ground it.	[15:27]
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danielpbarron	in looking for a link, i found a typo in this page -> http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/	[15:28]
assbot	Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca77d8 )	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	whats the typo ?	[15:28]
danielpbarron	Retarded pieces like what Matonis is retweeting of late (shame on you man, seriously) are powerless in this matter, << links to trilema instead of twitter	[15:28]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-02-2014#520177	[15:29]
assbot	Logged on 20-02-2014 19:47:58; mircea_popescu: why "you" ?	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	ah yes danielpbarron has it.	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	ty	[15:30]
*	Xuthus has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/#footnote_3_52853 <<< ahahaha.	[15:37]
assbot	Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfJIGW )	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	anyone guess what that hinted at ?	[15:37]
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danielpbarron	USG asking MPEx if so-and-so is a customer?	[15:42]
danielpbarron	or if such-and-such a bet was from whatever exit scam ?	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/	[15:44]
assbot	Interacting with fiat institutions, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HfLckB )	[15:44]
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danielpbarron	or uh.. USG guy joins IRC and identifies himself as such	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2014#643118 << and since we're digging through logs... remember back when the scam foundation was "giving generous grants" ?	[15:45]
assbot	Logged on 25-04-2014 17:49:10; mircea_popescu: "After scoring a major grant awarded by the Bitcoin Foundation, Coinpunk’s beta version is finally available. The project, which is being developed by the veteran startup founder Kyle Drake, intends to build the first fully open-source, self-hosted do-it-yourself Bitcoin wallet service that you can run on your own server."	[15:45]
danielpbarron	signs message with GPG key hosted on a .gov	[15:45]
*	assbot gives voice to felipelalli	[15:53]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: thank you for the answers and the link. I'll have a look on it before comment again.	[15:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00027624 = 11.2153 BTC [+]	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	np.	[15:54]
nubbins`	i'll probably get a makefile.osx done up at some point	[15:54]
nubbins`	in order for it to compile all the deps, there's only a couple trivial changes to make	[15:54]
nubbins`	s/sha256sum/shasum -a 256/ etc	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	http://40.media.tumblr.com/d680f19e948db3a6f204280efa2bf7a5/tumblr_mwq1dag5pw1t1c22co1_1280.jpg << dat tit hang.	[15:55]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HfNqQP )	[15:55]
nubbins`	s/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/ in irc.cpp and net.cpp	[15:55]
nubbins`	'bout it	[15:55]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: just one question mark: do you call fraud what does not have the "min. quality expected for that service" or something else?	[15:56]
nubbins`	mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld'	[15:56]
nubbins`	flags missing etc	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	felipelalli there's a difference between making cars as in, making a trabant, making cars as in, making a cardboard cut-out of a car, and making cars as in, making ford pintos, which explode killing their passengers.	[15:57]
nubbins`	mostly surrounding the static-build part of it, fwiw	[15:57]
nubbins`	*static-link	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	the main problem in commerce is that the most dangerous of these is the last, and the most readily identified by the consumer is the first.	[15:57]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: got it!	[15:57]
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felipelalli	makes sense.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	so you know, "it seems to be working" is a very bad heuristic for stuff like this.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	the fact that it's not intuitively obvious is not accidental, but part of the problem.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	the only similar situation i can imagine is self medication in medicine, where person goes to pharmacy swallows random pill for random ailment.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	it "seems to be working" because placebo effect, a sugar pill "seems to be working", and then six months later guy with tb is dead of iodine poisoning or w/e.	[15:59]
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felipelalli	but sometimes is hard to point objectivally where is the "bomb" inside the car. Sometimes we have just some clues. And they'll know only after explode.	[16:00]
felipelalli	the same to your pharmacy example.	[16:00]
felipelalli	you can say "this box seems weird" (like violated e.g.) but you'll only know after die.	[16:01]
felipelalli	I read your BTCJam article on trilema	[16:01]
felipelalli	and I didn't find anything very objective, but I guess you're trying to find clues that points something is weird. But after using the system, you can understand for example how joke is they reputation system.	[16:03]
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felipelalli	is *their	[16:04]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: a P2P lending system totally based on OTC WoT system would you consider a fraud as well or it could be something good?	[16:07]
felipelalli	I mean, rabbit out of this hat or not? This type of service is lost case?	[16:07]
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thestringpuller	felipelalli: the scam is that reputation is built nominally on btcjam vs. WoT	[16:16]
thestringpuller	s/the/a	[16:18]
thestringpuller	another scam is the repayment rate	[16:19]
thestringpuller	it's just scam on top of scam	[16:19]
thestringpuller	!up vorandrew	[16:20]
*	assbot gives voice to vorandrew	[16:20]
vorandrew	thanks... the problem with p2p lending - it one sided market	[16:20]
vorandrew	for example.. I wan to get loan... I want to get $95 and repay $100 in 2 months	[16:21]
vorandrew	If somebody can bet money that I will not pay it back - it will be incentive	[16:21]
vorandrew	for example bid/ask for Mr.X loan is .89-0.93	[16:22]
vorandrew	means he wants to sell his debt for 93 cents a dollar	[16:22]
vorandrew	and somebody wants to buy his debt for 89 cents a dollar	[16:22]
vorandrew	let's say I'm sure he is not going to repay	[16:23]
vorandrew	If I have opportunity to put aside with escrow 1 dollar and sell his debt for 89 cents	[16:23]
vorandrew	I will be risking 11 cents if he is gonna repay	[16:24]
vorandrew	and 89 cents in profit in case he is in default	[16:24]
vorandrew	so this BTCJAM (or any other one way market)	[16:24]
vorandrew	is kind of pump and dump scheme	[16:24]
vorandrew	you repay all year just to get max rating	[16:25]
vorandrew	and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :)	[16:25]
vorandrew	now imagine - 1 day before debt expiration - prices should be near 0.99	[16:26]
vorandrew	risking 1 cent in order to get 99 - not to shabby risk/reward ratio	[16:27]
*	asciilifeform walks in and #b-a is about... assets! wonders if he fell into a time warp	[16:28]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform is actually the flash	[16:29]
thestringpuller	and ran to fast and it now in 2012	[16:29]
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nubbins`	http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/odin-s-birthday-celebrated-by-social-media-supporters-1.3004041	[16:42]
assbot	Odin's birthday celebrated by social media supporters - Toronto - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xopTNX )	[16:42]
nubbins`	smh	[16:42]
mod6	<+nubbins`> mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld' << ah ok, yeah.	[16:42]
nubbins`	what happens next year?	[16:42]
vorandrew	;;price	[16:42]
gribble	Error: "price" is not a valid command.	[16:42]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: mega-disappointment	[16:42]
asciilifeform	-that-'s odin!?!	[16:43]
nubbins`	https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/qa/qa1118/_index.html	[16:43]
assbot	Technical Q&A QA1118: Statically linked binaries on Mac OS X ... ( http://bit.ly/1xopXNH )	[16:43]
nubbins`	admittedly not sure if related ^	[16:43]
nubbins`	asciilifeform right?	[16:43]
asciilifeform	'Apple does not support statically linked binaries on Mac OS X. A statically linked binary assumes binary compatibility at the kernel system call interface, and we do not make any guarantees on that front. Rather, we strive to ensure binary compatibility in each dynamically linked system library and framework.'	[16:43]
asciilifeform	ahahahahaha.	[16:43]
vorandrew	;;help	[16:43]
gribble	The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation: http://gribble.sourceforge.net/	[16:43]
asciilifeform	waitasec why do we even care	[16:44]
vorandrew	!facts	[16:44]
asciilifeform	what apple does	[16:44]
nubbins`	we don't, i've got a passing interest	[16:44]
nubbins`	at least they point you in the direction of what to do should you choose to ignore dad advice	[16:44]
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asciilifeform	i used to have a passing interest, long ago. but for all i know you have to sacrifice a son to the crocodile god to get blessing from cupertino to distribute 'app' now.	[16:45]
*	nubbins` idly wonders what sort of install base Darwin has	[16:45]
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asciilifeform	nubbins`: probably somewhere below that of 'plan 9'	[16:45]
nubbins`	heh	[16:45]
asciilifeform	if you're thinking of raw 'darwin'	[16:45]
asciilifeform	at one point i had a machine going with each.	[16:46]
nubbins`	i know there is/was an "opendarwin" project	[16:46]
nubbins`	anyway, homebrew lets me install sane gcc, but apparently sane ld is off-limits?	[16:46]
asciilifeform	conflicts with the idiot ld on the box, or what	[16:46]
nubbins`	in theory there'd be conflicts with the idiot gcc	[16:47]
nubbins`	so brew installs things in a specific location	[16:47]
nubbins`	then i go rename the originals and ln -s	[16:47]
nubbins`	but check this out:	[16:47]
nubbins`	$ brew install ld64	[16:47]
nubbins`	ld64: OS X Snow Leopard or older is required.	[16:47]
nubbins`	OR OLDER	[16:47]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: you might actually have more luck cross-compiling on that box	[16:47]
nubbins`	hmm	[16:48]
nubbins`	in what fashion	[16:49]
asciilifeform	say, for armv5	[16:49]
asciilifeform	(crosstoolchain has prefixes in names)	[16:49]
asciilifeform	but i dare say this is a waste of time	[16:50]
asciilifeform	find a real computer	[16:50]
nubbins`	no kidding hey	[16:51]
nubbins`	brew install ld64 pulls down the following file:	[16:53]
nubbins`	https://opensource.apple.com/tarballs/ld64/ld64-97.17.tar.gz	[16:53]
nubbins`	o.O	[16:53]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xoqGyB )	[16:54]
nubbins`	how is this useful	[16:54]
danielpbarron	ftr I do not intend to acutally use apple software; i've been putting OpenBSD on old iMacs	[16:54]
asciilifeform	then no need for the weird apple minutiae, no ?	[16:55]
asciilifeform	is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ?	[16:55]
danielpbarron	i think nubbins` has other plans	[16:55]
*	danielpbarron shrugs	[16:55]
asciilifeform	i meant was, is anyone planning to -run- on apple's os	[16:55]
asciilifeform	because now that's just bizarre	[16:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20591 @ 0.0002754 = 5.6708 BTC [-] {2}	[16:56]
nubbins`	that's what i'm trying to do, yes	[16:56]
nubbins`	not that i'm going to be running a node on this machine	[16:56]
danielpbarron	i plan on using nothing but OpenBSD whereever possible :p	[16:56]
nubbins`	just killing a saturday seeing how much work is involved	[16:56]
asciilifeform	i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo'	[16:56]
danielpbarron	although still using gentoo on this laptop and debian on my irc server and ArchLinux on the pogo node	[16:56]
nubbins`	2 more pogos on the way here	[16:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40761 @ 0.00027223 = 11.0964 BTC [-] {2}	[16:57]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: get a mega-crate while they're still around	[16:57]
asciilifeform	i have reasons to suspect that the pogo-4 is not long for this world	[16:57]
danielpbarron	they are selling the things at like 80% off because they think people will pay them 5 USD a month for cloud services	[16:58]
nubbins`	reasons that include dumping the hardware below cost? ;p	[16:58]
asciilifeform	and the cheapest entirely equivalent machine i was able to find on the market, anywhere on planet, is roughly 4x the cost	[16:58]
nubbins`	danielpbarron i'm still not sure how much is mfg subsidy and how much is dumping eol product	[16:58]
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nubbins`	the msrp on the things is like $99.	[16:59]
asciilifeform	there are inexhaustible many similar machines -without sata- for around 2-3x the cost of 'pogo4'	[16:59]
asciilifeform	but it is precisely the sata - and the Gb ethernet - which make the pogo what it is	[17:00]
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mircea_popescu	felipelalli it actually already works like that.	[17:15]
ben_vulpes	[19:50] is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ? << no	[17:16]
ben_vulpes	mod6 will be too polite about this	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	the reason you're not seeing "anything very objective" is because you don't know all sorts of things you don't know, and so they don't trigger for you. for instance : in a village where there's no bank, someone offering loans is one thing. in a town where banks exists and works, someone offering "loans" is called a loanshark.	[17:16]
ben_vulpes	but macos is marginal, and not at all a thing that i'm interested in hosting bitcoind on.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	for fundamental or practical reasons ?	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	ie, macos too stupid to run software ? or, not enough people actually running it to bother with ? or what ?	[17:17]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it has weird and very annoying quirks. just like actual unixen but not exactly, is the best description	[17:20]
asciilifeform	i think the japanese call this situation 'uncanny valley'	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	aha	[17:21]
trinque	situation will likely involve installing some mess like brew	[17:21]
ben_vulpes	where's that bash	[17:21]
*	nubbins` did install some mess like brew	[17:21]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#896379	[17:22]
nubbins`	fwiw brew is just a package manager ;p	[17:22]
assbot	Logged on 26-10-2014 03:33:41; decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars	[17:22]
trinque	nubbins`: I recall several instances of having done dunno what to fuck up my brew/macports/fink install	[17:22]
ben_vulpes	well a) marginal in that if you can hack an os x box, you are able to hack a linux or bsd box, and why prefer the consumer os to something designed for use by professionals	[17:22]
nubbins`	trinque my understanding is that installing brew and macports is a recipe for disaster	[17:23]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: betcha 9 out of 10 times it is used because laptop.	[17:23]
ben_vulpes	b) it is the product of the devil, with all sorts of odd shit going on under the hood	[17:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00028006 = 8.6258 BTC [+] {3}	[17:23]
nubbins`	asciilifeform +1	[17:23]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: invariably	[17:23]
ben_vulpes	'tis why i use it.	[17:24]
ben_vulpes	i'd like to build out a workstation this year.	[17:24]
ben_vulpes	doubt that i'll have time, though.	[17:24]
thestringpuller	workstation isn't portable	[17:24]
ben_vulpes	anyways.	[17:24]
jurov	36 quotes waiting for bash... looks like rs work, guess i'll start asking for donations :D	[17:24]
ben_vulpes	thestringpuller: you don't say!	[17:24]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: the parts aren't getting any more findable.	[17:24]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i've been wanting to build a successor to my '07 machine for a few yrs now, and at this point not sure that it will happen at all	[17:25]
asciilifeform	there are how many manufacturers of amd boards with support for ecc ram? 2? 1?	[17:25]
*	asciilifeform goes through this ritual every year or so	[17:26]
ben_vulpes	i honestly don't even know how to build a workstation.	[17:26]
*	asciilifeform with same result	[17:26]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: you buy a number of things and bolt them together...	[17:26]
ben_vulpes	for example: why ecc ram?	[17:26]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: this was actually discussed in #b-a on several occasions	[17:26]
asciilifeform	!s ecc	[17:26]
assbot	63 results for 'ecc' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ecc	[17:26]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: cannot tolerate errors in memory for any reason, whatsoever.	[17:27]
jurov	can't one just use some server mobo?	[17:27]
asciilifeform	jurov: -must-	[17:27]
asciilifeform	jurov: but not so many for amd.	[17:27]
asciilifeform	esp. if you want expansion slots	[17:27]
asciilifeform	(for human use, typically want video boards, for instance.)	[17:28]
*	jurov is uninformed grunt with athlonII 630 fourcore with no upgrade plans and sadly no ecc	[17:28]
trinque	asciilifeform: do you find AMD more trustworthy or is it a technical preference?	[17:28]
asciilifeform	last i checked, i actually found an appropriate board. about 1k usd for mobo alone.	[17:28]
asciilifeform	trinque: amd is, recall, also american. but it does not have the history of outright warfare against its customers, or the surreptitious collaboration with microshit, that intel does.	[17:29]
trinque	yep knew they're american, hence curiosity	[17:30]
asciilifeform	there is no 'clean' cpu vendor on the planet today.	[17:30]
asciilifeform	even chinese 'loongson' is built with american w4r4z fab tools.	[17:30]
trinque	heh sorry to constantly remind you of this fact with my questions.	[17:31]
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trinque	I am still curious why davout uses win 3.1 to do his encryption	[17:32]
asciilifeform	trinque: there are other useful facts to know about intel	[17:32]
asciilifeform	trinque: for instance, that recent intel server boards all include -prominently advertised- hardware rootkits	[17:32]
asciilifeform	'remote management'	[17:32]
asciilifeform	supposedly user-controllable, but srsly l0l	[17:32]
trinque	yeah, saw that feature on this lenovo	[17:32]
trinque	"feature"	[17:32]
asciilifeform	as for 'consumer' junk, recent intel boards have nintendo-style signed boot preventing use of linuxbios	[17:33]
asciilifeform	this should tell you everything you need to know.	[17:33]
cazalla	danielpbarron: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/ << is this a qntra article? <<< as far as i could tell, it's just a screenshot from btc-e chat, nothing came from btc-e themselves on the website, twitter etc etc, btc-e's email server was down too so people couldn't confirm withdrawal, so nfi if that link is even factual	[17:33]
assbot	Withdrawals halted as stolen evolution coins make their way to BTC-e : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1DISeAt )	[17:33]
trinque	asciilifeform: indeed	[17:33]
asciilifeform	trinque: amd is not 'angelic', it is simply behind the usg schedule because, elementary, smaller market share	[17:33]
asciilifeform	and is the 'younger son'	[17:33]
asciilifeform	so not favoured by microshit	[17:34]
asciilifeform	but we all know where the train is going	[17:34]
asciilifeform	so if you want to buy hardware, do it while you can.	[17:34]
nubbins`	;;google hear my train a-comin'	[17:34]
gribble	Hear My Train A Comin' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Jimi Hendrix - Hear My Train A Comin' (Lyric Video) - YouTube: ; Jimi Hendrix: Hear My Train A Comin' \| Director's Cut Video ... - PBS:	[17:34]
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jurov	http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M5A97_R20/ i dug out this	[17:36]
assbot	Motherboards - M5A97 R2.0 - ASUS	[17:36]
asciilifeform	jurov: own this one ^ ?	[17:36]
cazalla	plus the mods for btc-e chat are well known for trolling so who really knows	[17:36]
jurov	no, just could not believe there is nothing avail	[17:36]
asciilifeform	jurov: be careful with the ecc thing. many boards will take the dimms, but won't actually -use- ecc	[17:37]
asciilifeform	generally only 'server market' boards that -require- ecc, actually work with it.	[17:38]
jurov	wow, such scam	[17:38]
asciilifeform	other than that, i cannot comment on the linked item	[17:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44350 @ 0.00027708 = 12.2885 BTC [-]	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	felipelalli http://trilema.com/2015/autotranslated-spam-for-the-lulz/ << here, for you.	[17:38]
assbot	Autotranslated Spam For The Lulz pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DISIqh )	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062597 << that's just the tenth of it, but yes, a major reason this doesn't work.	[17:42]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 19:21:00; vorandrew: and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :)	[17:42]
asciilifeform	jurov: i generally buy boards that require 'buffered ecc'	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo' << ahahaha. nintendo!	[17:45]
asciilifeform	the solidest gold toilet available	[17:45]
asciilifeform	trinque, jurov: see also recently publicized 'rowhammer' effect.	[17:46]
jurov	it hits unbuffered harder?	[17:46]
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asciilifeform	not that i know of. unrelated	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062676 << ayup.	[17:46]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 19:54:27; nubbins`: the msrp on the things is like $99.	[17:46]
asciilifeform	though i'm uncertain re: whether ddr3 even exists in buffered-ecc variant	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	and since i'm off, i leave you with http://41.media.tumblr.com/8a8fca439ee8052b65b75202e77950b0/tumblr_mw45rs1ptf1t16d43o1_1280.jpg	[17:47]
asciilifeform	(ddr3 is the type of dram affected by 'rowhammer')	[17:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DITzHB )	[17:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028206 = 6.0925 BTC [+] {2}	[17:48]
asciilifeform	http://www.servethehome.com/unbuffered-registered-ecc-memory-difference-ecc-udimms-rdimms << likbez re: ecc & buffering	[17:50]
assbot	Unbuffered versus Registered ECC Memory - Difference between ECC UDIMMs and RDIMMsServeTheHome – Server and Workstation Reviews ... ( http://bit.ly/1DITN1u )	[17:50]
ben_vulpes	neat likbez, asciilifeform, thank you	[17:54]
scoopbot	New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/autotranslated-spam-for-the-lulz/	[17:55]
jurov	good. so we now know alf needs 100+G of RAM	[17:56]
asciilifeform	jurov: even something very modest like 16 begins to suffer from buffering problems if actually used in anger	[17:59]
*	trinque wonders what relevance running from ramdisks might have to the situation involving hd firmware	[17:59]
asciilifeform	trinque: hd firmware diddling is usually interesting at boot	[18:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26718 @ 0.00028261 = 7.5508 BTC [+]	[18:02]
trinque	asciilifeform: boot from cd, decompress an image into ram?	[18:02]
trinque	not that it avoids any other diddled components	[18:02]
trinque	also where do you make your "clean" CD	[18:03]
asciilifeform	trinque: most cdrom drives have reflashable fw, incidentally.	[18:03]
asciilifeform	(why? don't ask me)	[18:03]
nubbins`	my first cdrw drive required a firmware update	[18:04]
nubbins`	well, "required". too long ago to remember what it did	[18:04]
nubbins`	ostensibly it's there for later when they discover bugs in their code	[18:05]
asciilifeform	the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable.	[18:05]
nubbins`	those drives, you prolly can't reflash the fw 8)	[18:05]
trinque	asciilifeform: "ship it!" (tm)	[18:06]
asciilifeform	incidentally, buggy+nonflashable is common as dirt. my car, for instance, has a buggy cabin thermostat controller.	[18:06]
nubbins`	they shoulda made it reflashable!	[18:06]
nubbins`	http://imgur.com/GY0nn5n	[18:07]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIVufs )	[18:07]
nubbins`	^ homemade kimchi on the menu tonite	[18:07]
trinque	yum!	[18:07]
asciilifeform	actually i have no idea if flashable. could very well be. but no vendor upgrade has ever been released, nor is there any obvious means of applying one	[18:07]
nubbins`	nod	[18:07]
nubbins`	been fermenting on the counter for 6 days	[18:07]
asciilifeform	(some newer cars can actually be reflashed through the music player, famously.)	[18:07]
nubbins`	just fried up a test piece; wept	[18:07]
nubbins`	asciilifeform some synths i have can be reflashed modem-style via audio jack	[18:08]
nubbins`	update is released as wav file	[18:09]
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nubbins`	http://pastebin.com/uP8n9kkD	[18:20]
assbot	g++ -pthread -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wformat -g -DNOPCH -I/Users/jonkeefe/Downloa - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1DIWY9x )	[18:20]
nubbins`	anyone have a suggestion as to where i start figuring out which file/directory it can't find?	[18:21]
nubbins`	everything in prior stmt appears to be present	[18:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00028483 = 3.4749 BTC [+]	[18:25]
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jurov	i'd strace it	[18:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45530 @ 0.00028152 = 12.8176 BTC [-] {2}	[18:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027616 = 7.1249 BTC [-] {2}	[18:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00027211 = 5.0612 BTC [-] {2}	[18:41]
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nubbins`	jurov good idea, nothing useful tho	[18:45]
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*	assbot gives voice to decimation	[18:50]
decimation	asciilifeform: I tried to compile an 'open source' app using the osx devel tool once	[18:51]
decimation	the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use	[18:51]
decimation	Xcode insisted that I required a paid apple developer account before I could consider such a thing, it appears	[18:53]
nubbins`	o.O	[18:55]
decimation	now, perhaps I was just unaware of the proper method of 'unsigning' someone else's code, but it wasn't an obvious feature if it existed	[18:55]
trinque	yeah, it can be done	[18:56]
nubbins`	is this a mac app or an ios app?	[18:56]
trinque	or at least years ago when I did this	[18:56]
decimation	mac app	[18:56]
nubbins`	ah, haven't ever used xcode for this	[18:56]
trinque	you have to set your ios device up as one of your dev devices	[18:56]
decimation	no, it was a mac app	[18:56]
nubbins`	as you can imagine, ios apps are under almost total lockdown	[18:56]
trinque	whether this much fuckery should be involved aside, it can be done	[18:56]
nubbins`	seems kinda weird that some random code won't compile tho.	[18:56]
trinque	you make your own self-signed cert then flip a setting that allows you to run such things	[18:57]
decimation	trinque: I did attempt that	[18:57]
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nubbins`	best batch of kimchi yet, btw	[18:57]
nubbins`	so goddamn sour	[18:57]
decimation	at any rate, it does appear that with each release of osx/xcode, apple subtlety changes what is 'allowed', without much explicit explanation	[18:59]
trinque	decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely	[18:59]
nubbins`	http://pastebin.com/kdybufC5	[18:59]
nubbins`	^ fwiw	[18:59]
assbot	87105/0x2a6df: stat64("/Users/jonkeefe/Downloads/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/inclu - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/18Po7Kg )	[18:59]
decimation	yes, the path is obvious	[18:59]
nubbins`	ran via "dtruss"	[18:59]
nubbins`	nothing useful afaict	[18:59]
decimation	apple could quite easily lock down osx just as hard as it locks down ios	[18:59]
trinque	decimation: pretty far from their roots these days	[19:00]
nubbins`	decimation a couple releases ago (maybe 1-2), the default behaviour for applications downloaded by "unknown developers" requires you to right-click,open	[19:00]
nubbins`	for first run	[19:00]
decimation	nubbins`: that's still the case	[19:00]
nubbins`	double-click turns you down	[19:00]
nubbins`	fwiw it's fairly non-intrusive and can be disabled	[19:00]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[19:00]
decimation	right, but apple just wants you to know that it sees what you are doing there...	[19:01]
nubbins`	:D	[19:01]
decimation	on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot'	[19:01]
nubbins`	<+trinque> decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely <<< a friend of mine says obummer is a reptilian	[19:01]
decimation	except apple doesn't really have a wot so much as it has a slave harem	[19:01]
trinque	nubbins`: heh, I tend to argue the contrary	[19:01]
trinque	but he has a point	[19:02]
nubbins`	like, remove Terminal.app from the default install, or remove the ability to run bash?	[19:02]
nubbins`	or something more nebulous	[19:02]
nubbins`	like "just remove"	[19:02]
pete_dushenski	if apple has a slave harem, they win the award for 'dumbest slave harem'	[19:03]
decimation	pete_dushenski: well, they apparently can charge people for the privilege of signing up	[19:03]
trinque	nubbins`: remove the ability to interact with anything other than signed cocoa apps	[19:03]
pete_dushenski	or maybe windowz wins. but w/e	[19:03]
nubbins`	well, y'know.	[19:03]
nubbins`	let em.	[19:03]
nubbins`	it's their hw/sw	[19:03]
pete_dushenski	decimation: they charge ppl for all the privileges!	[19:04]
trinque	sure, that was my reaction to the latest win10 signed boot bullshit	[19:04]
nubbins`	i won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors?	[19:04]
pete_dushenski	that's how you know it's lvmh territory	[19:04]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: not since the state stuck its fingers in	[19:04]
decimation	as in maker of fancy trinkets for rich folk?	[19:04]
pete_dushenski	right	[19:05]
decimation	I recently heard an argument that apple's only recourse to 'grow' its revenue stream is to sell super-luxury goods	[19:05]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: which would've been what, 1915 ?	[19:05]
trinque	decimation: the apple watch gadget etc	[19:05]
trinque	tv... so on	[19:05]
pete_dushenski	decimation: new product offerings grow their pie just as well	[19:06]
decimation	the argument being that even if every 'middle class' person in the world purchased a new apple device they would still only be 'holding steady'	[19:06]
trinque	I admire the way the company got started; someone needs to do that again	[19:06]
trinque	because now they're the IBM	[19:06]
pete_dushenski	not necessarily more premium, just... branded	[19:06]
nubbins`	mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction	[19:06]
nubbins`	but only ever so mildly	[19:06]
decimation	which explains the need to sell 10k watches, and cars, bespoke helicopters, etc	[19:06]
trinque	asciilifeform tells me there are no trustworthy components with which to re-do the garage build, and I don't doubt him	[19:06]
pete_dushenski	nubbins`: like engineless car market	[19:06]
pete_dushenski	buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine	[19:07]
pete_dushenski	uh, sure	[19:07]
decimation	nubbins`: there's the 'toughbook'	[19:07]
nubbins`	my next laptop will probably be a cheap desktop + chromebook	[19:07]
decimation	but I think it comes with winblows	[19:07]
nubbins`	decimation what am i, a cop?!	[19:07]
decimation	hehe	[19:07]
nubbins`	dell usually offers one or two linux laptops	[19:07]
nubbins`	hopelessly outdated and overpriced	[19:07]
nubbins`	otherwise, your choices are (a) give MS $25 or (b) fuck off	[19:08]
decimation	my recommendation is you purchase a laptop on the 'coreboot' list & flash your own bios	[19:08]
trinque	I've seen a system76 in person, seemed like a piece of shit	[19:08]
pete_dushenski	or buy old thinkpad	[19:08]
pete_dushenski	which i'll get around to myself at some point	[19:08]
nubbins`	trinque i researched those	[19:08]
decimation	be prepared for shitty device support	[19:08]
nubbins`	i honestly abhor the idea of a plastic laptop	[19:08]
trinque	pete_dushenski: I'm on a lenovo turd currently, do not recommend	[19:08]
trinque	thinkpad in name only	[19:08]
pete_dushenski	mm, ok so pre-2011 or w/e	[19:09]
trinque	yeah	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	update ram, new os, go	[19:09]
nubbins`	haha, i actually have a laptop w/ coreboot: OLPC XO-1.	[19:09]
trinque	my cellphone gets too close to this machine and the display starts flickering, disk remounts read-only	[19:09]
decimation	if you want 'cheap, don't care', you could buy a chromebook and reflash	[19:09]
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nubbins`	my criteria are (a) not plastic body (b) no money given to MS	[19:10]
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pete_dushenski	several ways to skin cat, hard to argue that any involve apple	[19:10]
decimation	well, the 'plastic body' fails almost everything	[19:11]
nubbins`	^	[19:11]
decimation	macbookpro or toughbook	[19:11]
nubbins`	mbp = soldered ram, glued battery	[19:11]
pete_dushenski	only newest ones	[19:11]
nubbins`	too troo	[19:11]
nubbins`	used laptops = ehhhh	[19:11]
pete_dushenski	glued battery wasn't there 3 years ago	[19:11]
nubbins`	who knows how they were treated	[19:11]
pete_dushenski	not sure about ram	[19:11]
decimation	yeah, you could buy an old g4 macbook pro	[19:12]
pete_dushenski	17" screen!	[19:12]
nubbins`	maybe i'll just try stocking up on a full set of spare parts for this late-2008 macbook	[19:12]
decimation	replace battery, replace hdd	[19:12]
nubbins`	prolly no easier	[19:12]
pete_dushenski	maybe no easier, but that's not the point, the point is what's saner	[19:13]
nubbins`	this is actually the longest i've ever used the same laptop	[19:13]
pete_dushenski	well then why stop	[19:13]
nubbins`	planning for the future, yo	[19:13]
pete_dushenski	dollars to donuts a newer one won't last 7 years	[19:13]
nubbins`	one day this will die	[19:13]
pete_dushenski	but unless it's too slow for your needs, like decimation said, a new hdd or battery is all you'll likely need	[19:14]
pete_dushenski	what, maybe fan	[19:14]
nubbins`	got a new battery and upgraded to 8gb ram a couple months ago	[19:15]
nubbins`	breathed some new life into it	[19:15]
pete_dushenski	next: ssd	[19:15]
*	kushed_AFK is now known as kushed	[19:15]
decimation	they might not have sata drives, you might need an ata ssd	[19:16]
nubbins`	ssd i can do w/o	[19:17]
*	nubbins` doesn't do much disk thrashing	[19:17]
decimation	the issue is that it might suck if you don't run osx	[19:17]
nubbins`	that's what my iphone said when i walked into best buy	[19:18]
nubbins`	8)	[19:18]
PeterL	so I applied for grad school today	[19:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00027425 = 6.7466 BTC [+]	[19:22]
pete_dushenski	PeterL: what program ?	[19:23]
PeterL	Central Mich chemistry	[19:24]
pete_dushenski	nice. gl!	[19:24]
PeterL	thanks	[19:24]
PeterL	it's the only place close enough to be commutable	[19:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.0002721 = 11.5915 BTC [-] {2}	[19:26]
nubbins`	PeterL congrats/condolences	[19:29]
PeterL	lol	[19:29]
PeterL	asciilifeform:the same folks who were paying the parasites (i will not call them publishers, they withhold only - performing not a single one of the traditional functions of a publishing house save the physical printing) - will continue to pay. << what is this "physical printing"? everything is online now	[19:32]
PeterL	btw, I'm a couple days behind in the logs	[19:32]
decimation	PeterL: it doesn't matter that it's all online	[19:33]
nubbins`	facepalm	[19:33]
decimation	in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong	[19:33]
nubbins`	http://imgur.com/oa5lj23	[19:34]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgBDli )	[19:34]
PeterL	decimation: in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong << people share files, right?	[19:34]
decimation	sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly	[19:35]
PeterL	asciilifeform:and to the extent it isn't a problem, it is solely because academia is mostly dead as a going concern << and here I go trying to get back into it :(	[19:36]
decimation	PeterL: it's not a bad idea if you can scam someone into paying for it	[19:36]
nubbins`	fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity	[19:37]
asciilifeform	fact is, i can go and read print materials at uni library	[19:40]
asciilifeform	online ones - no.	[19:40]
PeterL	no university password?	[19:40]
asciilifeform	nope	[19:40]
asciilifeform	and i pay actual money just to be permitted in the library	[19:40]
nubbins`	even if you could read 'em online, look what happens if you read them too fast	[19:41]
asciilifeform	there has been a very sharp decline in the past few yrs in what i am able to access at the library	[19:41]
asciilifeform	because even the things still issued in print - many of the print subscriptions at this place were allowed to lapse	[19:42]
nubbins`	^	[19:42]
asciilifeform	because 'anyone who's anyone can read on www' or the like.	[19:42]
asciilifeform	and no, none of it is on warez of any kind	[19:42]
asciilifeform	(who would put it there, and why?)	[19:42]
nubbins`	^	[19:42]
PeterL	get an undergrad girlfriend who can print it for you?	[19:43]
nubbins`	"everything is online" is a fine premise for commodity data	[19:43]
nubbins`	rare data, not so much	[19:43]
asciilifeform	PeterL: someone suggested bribery & shills before. it doesn't work, because my use pattern is 'grep at 3am when moon is full'	[19:43]
asciilifeform	rather than 'fetch me XXXXX'	[19:43]
nubbins`	i've downloaded bootlegged concerts, since lost, that i will never, ever, ever find again	[19:43]
PeterL	you grep the dead trees?	[19:43]
asciilifeform	PeterL: approximately.	[19:44]
asciilifeform	speaking of the online stuff, really	[19:44]
asciilifeform	i browse.	[19:44]
asciilifeform	most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose	[19:44]
asciilifeform	but just to massage brain	[19:45]
asciilifeform	this is easy with print, difficult with www, but absolutely impossible with www that someone else is cranking for you	[19:45]
PeterL	browse through google scholar?	[19:46]
asciilifeform	PeterL: browsing for me implies instant access to full text	[19:46]
PeterL	good point	[19:46]
asciilifeform	not idiot 'winamp playlists' of titles	[19:46]
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asciilifeform	nubbins`: mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction << iirc the term of art is 'lemon market'	[19:51]
decimation	it's not like several day delay involved in informing whatever patsy to do what is needed is great for your train of thought	[19:52]
asciilifeform	!s ooda loop	[19:52]
assbot	2 results for 'ooda loop' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ooda+loop	[19:52]
decimation	and then if patsy discovers the volume/paper/whatever wasn't useful, how do you think they will react?	[19:53]
asciilifeform	the whole point of a library, originally (ancient and medieval worlds) was so you don't have to write to phriend across the sea 'please send me work xxxxx' and get it two years later when you forget what it was even for	[19:53]
decimation	ie a cache	[19:53]
asciilifeform	to 'shorten the ooda loop'	[19:53]
decimation	but that was when only people who knew wtf they were doing could even read	[19:54]
asciilifeform	today 'library' could be anywhere with a net connection - but isn't	[19:54]
asciilifeform	and if it takes ww3 to eliminate the reasons for this - then i am enthusiastically in favour of ww3.	[19:55]
decimation	asciilifeform: publishers/authors have 'come to expect' royalties	[19:55]
PeterL	new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library	[19:55]
trinque	ahem... deedbot-	[19:55]
decimation	online repo is fine, as long as it is properly organized and indexed	[19:56]
asciilifeform	decimation: the authors virtually never see any positive cashflow	[19:56]
nubbins`	PeterL dat cutoff of comments	[19:56]
decimation	note that attempting to accomplish this task was why whats his face hung himself	[19:56]
asciilifeform	i'm not even satisfied that he did it himself	[19:56]
asciilifeform	but yes	[19:56]
decimation	heh	[19:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9035 @ 0.00027384 = 2.4741 BTC [+]	[19:56]
PeterL	nubbins`: what cutoff?	[19:57]
nubbins`	waitnow. what articles?	[19:57]
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PeterL	all the articles asciilifeform wants to read later	[19:58]
asciilifeform	most of what i read is '70s-'90s and a good chunk of it is book	[19:59]
PeterL	would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research?	[19:59]
decimation	sure, or at least a hash/pointer to the same	[19:59]
asciilifeform	PeterL: so it isn't merely or even primarily about recent publications	[20:00]
nubbins`	o	[20:00]
asciilifeform	but this is a case of 'the spittoon'	[20:00]
asciilifeform	!s spittoon	[20:00]
assbot	21 results for 'spittoon' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spittoon	[20:00]
trinque	PeterL: depends on licensing I guess; I don't have the bankroll to get into any copyright battles for anyone	[20:00]
trinque	nor the interest	[20:00]
asciilifeform	the frustration of the activity is directly proportional to how often i end up 'following a dead link' - that is, trying to access something - anything - referred to in any work, and finding out that it isn't in the collection or i'm not cleared for it	[20:00]
asciilifeform	and generally the answer is 'constantly'	[20:01]
decimation	^ me too	[20:03]
asciilifeform	since mircea_popescu is out, i will have to fill in for him and point out that yes, 99.9999% percent of the material is crud	[20:03]
asciilifeform	but this changes nothing	[20:03]
decimation	and I even pay for an IEEE membership w/societies (mostly IEEE papers)	[20:03]
asciilifeform	we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet.	[20:04]
asciilifeform	to anyone who ever wondered about what the net would look like if it were controlled by publishers, rather than telecoms: it would look like the academia web.	[20:05]
trinque	part of the interest for me working on deedbot- was to see how hard the next thing would be, publishing magnet link hashes, dht keys, something like that	[20:05]
trinque	that idea is better off being a tool you run against your own bitcoind	[20:06]
asciilifeform	trinque: warez only really works for popular things	[20:06]
trinque	asciilifeform: yeh, people here would have to run it	[20:06]
trinque	*seed	[20:06]
asciilifeform	for instance, go find peter kogge's 'symbolic computers' on warez.	[20:07]
asciilifeform	it isn't there	[20:08]
asciilifeform	and if it is ever there, it will almost certainly be because i will have found the time to scan it & post it.	[20:08]
trinque	asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy	[20:09]
decimation	asciilifeform: https://books.google.com/books?id=ruhQAAAAMAAJ < this?	[20:09]
assbot	The Architecture of Symbolic Computers - Peter M. Kogge - Google Boeken ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiVST5 )	[20:09]
trinque	there are a few attempts at doing it with a shitty alt-coin	[20:09]
PeterL	trinque: isn't that what bitmessage is supposed to do?	[20:10]
trinque	PeterL: in the ballpark; there's storj, also ballpark	[20:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: yes, it	[20:11]
trinque	needs to be built on bitcoin	[20:11]
decimation	the g00g has it in their repo...	[20:11]
PeterL	why need to build on bitcoin?	[20:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: they have almost everything	[20:11]
decimation	aye	[20:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: but fat lot of good it does anyone else	[20:11]
asciilifeform	it's as uninteresting as the fact that the author might still have it on some ancient 8mm tape	[20:12]
trinque	google, one of the things which will survive the fall...	[20:12]
asciilifeform	trinque: see their usenet archive to learn what happens to material that the 1990s-birthdayed morons don't give a damn about	[20:12]
decimation	perhaps one day google will be 'snowdened'	[20:13]
asciilifeform	go steal 10000tB.	[20:14]
decimation	heh yeah	[20:14]
decimation	something tells me google security would notice the racks going out the door	[20:14]
asciilifeform	the only way it could really change hands is physical conquest of entire continent	[20:14]
asciilifeform	in the course of which most of it would be destroyed	[20:14]
asciilifeform	since mircea_popescu is out, i will fill in for him and observe that library of alexandria burning is no loss, when cockroaches evolve and replace man they will rediscover everything.	[20:15]
asciilifeform	i kinda wish i could think myself into the mindset of 'immortal olympian' that way	[20:16]
asciilifeform	but i happen to live here. and to me the availability of this or that piece of dead tree - matters.	[20:16]
decimation	agreed, me too	[20:17]
decimation	asciilifeform: how do you 'scan and post' a book? I just fujitsu scansnap	[20:17]
decimation	s/just/use	[20:17]
asciilifeform	decimation: tripod	[20:18]
asciilifeform	like the old spies with their 'minox' cams.	[20:18]
decimation	do you have a collection of custom scripts to turn a pile of images into a pdf/djvu	[20:19]
trinque	asciilifeform: is the situation that google bought deja news then didn't put up the whole archive?	[20:19]
trinque	I'm not old enough to have experienced a usenet golden age	[20:20]
PeterL	I used a couple "google groups" for a while, before I moved up to the bitcoinTalk forum	[20:21]
decimation	trinque: in the olden days it was expected your local isp would provide a usenet server and collect archives	[20:21]
asciilifeform	trinque: nope	[20:21]
asciilifeform	trinque: it's in there, as far as i can tell, but quietly stopped being searchable a year or so ago	[20:22]
trinque	ah	[20:22]
asciilifeform	and before that, they glommed it into their idiot 'google groups' thing	[20:22]
decimation	'deja news' was kinda like the original 'stack overflow' in terms of its usefulness to troubleshooting common computer issues	[20:22]
asciilifeform	then they stopped making them searchable separately	[20:22]
asciilifeform	then - at all	[20:22]
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asciilifeform	i still can't tell if it was mere neglect, or shitgnomery, or specifically the folks who posted silly things on usenet in the '80-'90s are trying to run for political office, or what.	[20:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00027377 = 12.5387 BTC [-] {2}	[20:23]
trinque	quip above about the fall was that I'm sure inside google it's easy to access all this information, regardless of what levers the external surface has	[20:23]
decimation	I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care	[20:24]
asciilifeform	trinque: they bought up the dejanews optical disks. and i'm be rather surprised if they didn't still have them.	[20:24]
trinque	decimation: probably doesn't matter	[20:24]
decimation	the assumption of competence when it comes to a big bureaucracy is generally a poor one	[20:24]
asciilifeform	say what you like about library of alexandria, but usenet '85-'2000 was home to virtually all of the technically competent folks who exist today.	[20:25]
trinque	asciilifeform's two govts observation about the US I think applies to Googles as well	[20:25]
trinque	who gives a fuck who's working on gmail	[20:25]
trinque	the company has more information than arguably any other, and is building a robot army	[20:25]
trinque	haha	[20:25]
trinque	they'll be powerful for a long time.	[20:26]
decimation	I don't buy that there is a meta-google	[20:26]
trinque	I don't buy that such overtly, cynically powerful entities have not a single functioning brain within	[20:26]
decimation	the same could be said about the us in general	[20:27]
trinque	"don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time	[20:27]
decimation	I like moldbug's theory: those 'with a brain' are generally engaged in spending all their time battling each other	[20:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23544 @ 0.00027425 = 6.4569 BTC [+] {2}	[20:28]
PeterL	I wonder if google is cacheing the info on servers outside the US, so they could outlast a US collapse?	[20:28]
trinque	lockheed martins and googles are what I expect to remain in the ashes	[20:30]
trinque	which ones are actually prepared for the collapse, we'll find out then	[20:31]
trinque	but to think none of them are, that's naive	[20:31]
trinque	day two, and we're back to clubs and wearing skins	[20:31]
jurov	if the collapse will look like anything in the ostbloc	[20:31]
jurov	all gear will be gon to scrap metal or so	[20:32]
asciilifeform	the 'fine things of life' invariably are destroyed in a proper collapse.	[20:32]
asciilifeform	where is soviet physics? mathematics ?	[20:32]
pete_dushenski	like... twin studies	[20:33]
trinque	asciilifeform: silos are still there, as far as I know	[20:33]
asciilifeform	the folks not dead of drink have been driving cabs in nyc for so long as to have put their generative years firmly behind.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	trinque: not speaking of the rusty rockets at all	[20:33]
pete_dushenski	unless someone can point me to mengele's published paper	[20:33]
trinque	asciilifeform: I am	[20:33]
pete_dushenski	paper*	[20:33]
trinque	rustry drones maybe	[20:33]
trinque	*rusty	[20:33]
asciilifeform	but of the absolutely first-rate, never-equalled academic work	[20:33]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: wrong twin studies	[20:34]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: speaking here of the longitudinal studies of adopted children in usa	[20:34]
asciilifeform	(re: twin studies from last night's thread.)	[20:34]
pete_dushenski	aic	[20:34]
asciilifeform	l0l re: pete_dushenski immediately thinking of mengele's twins	[20:34]
pete_dushenski	also interesting, i suppose	[20:35]
pete_dushenski	haha what... i was trying to hunt down some nazi scientific papers last night	[20:35]
pete_dushenski	in english, found nothing	[20:35]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: all the good stuff was taken to usa and is, for the most part, still secret	[20:35]
asciilifeform	(not because it included superweapons but to conceal the amount of u.s.-nazi cooperation from day one)	[20:36]
pete_dushenski	i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research	[20:36]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: ibm, i know of	[20:36]
asciilifeform	not about ibm	[20:36]
pete_dushenski	what other cooperation do you refer to ?	[20:36]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: chemical industry, for instance	[20:36]
pete_dushenski	sarin ?	[20:37]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: plus the post-war rescue of virtually all of the weirdos (most famously von braun but many others)	[20:37]
pete_dushenski	my digging was more concentration camp focused, but i guess you bring up a good point that there's was a huge breadth of inquiry at the time	[20:38]
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pete_dushenski	chemical weapons, v2 rockets, many things i have still to learn of	[20:38]
pete_dushenski	*there was	[20:39]
asciilifeform	unfortunately pete_dushenski is right about the unavailability in english of most of the interesting material.	[20:40]
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pete_dushenski	hm well alexandria may have been replaceable/rediscoverable, but if nazi work goes down with usg, how long do we wait ?	[20:40]
pete_dushenski	if anyone can point me towards interesting work in german, i'll translate it for cripes sake	[20:40]
pete_dushenski	unrelated: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/21/cool-hand-luke/ << asciilifeform did i get the right grigorenko ??	[20:41]
assbot	Cool Hand Luke. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Bk0oZu )	[20:41]
*	asciilifeform is not convinced that there was anything interesting in 'nazi academia' that we aren't already using in consumer tech (german chemical work, mostly, manufacturing techniques)	[20:41]
decimation	pete_dushenski: sprechen Sie Deutsch?	[20:41]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: how about medicine ?	[20:42]
pete_dushenski	decimation: nein...	[20:42]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: him. he has a book, about his life and how he was tormented in punitive psych hospitals	[20:42]
decimation	asciilifeform: I know that the german chemical industry was also generally transported to usg	[20:42]
pete_dushenski	in german, i have hello, goodbye, sorry, counting to 10, and a few other random words	[20:42]
pete_dushenski	about on par with my hebrew	[20:42]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: you would do just as well to learn ru	[20:43]
pete_dushenski	i can see it	[20:43]
pete_dushenski	though if i could add any 4th language, just for reading comprehension even, it'd be german	[20:44]
trinque	pete_dushenski: ich lerne deutsche mit duolingo	[20:44]
trinque	barely toddler level, but the app's fun	[20:44]
decimation	unfortunately german isn't as useful today because germany has been well-anglicized	[20:44]
pete_dushenski	trinque: haha i actually did a few lessons on there ! back when i started 'sabbatical'	[20:45]
pete_dushenski	on the spendier side, there's always rosetta stone, but having someone to speak to other than my mother would be nice	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	but as i said earlier, reading comprehension would be the most valuable for my purposes	[20:46]
pete_dushenski	i mean, causes ;)	[20:46]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: the quoted log in your post reads with great difficulty because of the choice of snips	[20:47]
pete_dushenski	hm. let me try again	[20:47]
pete_dushenski	one of the trickier conversations to break up, i admit, but it's a little better now.	[20:52]
pete_dushenski	http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/14/the-world-is-fundamentally-hostile/#comment-13298 << heh. 'what makes me superior ?'	[20:53]
assbot	The world is fundamentally hostile. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/19He3nK )	[20:53]
pete_dushenski	good question, really.	[20:53]
pete_dushenski	i guess teh jooz can always be blamed, right ?	[20:54]
pete_dushenski	so qntra business cards... i can dig it.	[20:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.000272 = 14.8512 BTC [-] {2}	[21:03]
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felipelalli	thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.	[21:18]
felipelalli	vorandrew: thanks for explain your point.	[21:18]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it.	[21:18]
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*	assbot gives voice to felipelalli	[21:39]
felipelalli	thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.	[21:40]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it.	[21:40]
felipelalli	vorandrew: you said "you repay all year just to get max rating" << no, no. The service does not work like that. Actually, if you get too many loans your score can decrease. The score is very bad implemented / executed yet, but it is not SO bad like that. And 660K BTC? Well, they played in TOTAL until today 44K BTC. Total. I like the idea of P2P lending: it is not the most secure investment ever but at least is fun play choosing the	[21:40]
felipelalli	right lists, and the right rates. I really want to understand better why you guys dislike it so much. In my country the interest rates are very high. In my bank, for example, I can get a loan with 7% per month MIN! APR 125% and in BTCJam I made some tests and I could get my first loand with 3% per month (42% APR) and then the second 2.8% (39% APR). The loan is so fucking high in bank that I can say like mircea_popescu said: "we are	[21:40]
felipelalli	like a village without bank". You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country.	[21:40]
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*	assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard	[21:57]
Pierre_Rochard	You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country. << Is btcjam really a better borrowing option than, say, https://www.itau.com.br/creditos-financiamentos/credito/	[21:57]
assbot	Itaú - créditos e financiamentos - crédito ... ( http://bit.ly/19HiBud )	[21:57]
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felipelalli	Pierre_Rochard: yes. Itaú is my bank.	[22:09]
felipelalli	Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year.	[22:10]
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felipelalli	But now, BTCJam simply eliminated the free market where the user could choose its own interest rate (and let it free to investors fund or not), and they automagically calculate the interest rate. With this new rule, I can get by 3.5% per month. That is not a huge problem for me, actually, I was using this more like a test. But they simply buried the "service". Even if it was a zombie's forehead shot.	[22:13]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[22:13]
PeterL	asciilifeform: on the topic of browsing lit, have you looked at open access journals like http://www.hindawi.com/ ?	[22:15]
assbot	Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( http://bit.ly/19HjHWM )	[22:15]
felipelalli	I'm sure I could set 2% rate or less and my list would be fund, because my reputation in Brazilian bitcoin community is very good. But now I have no choice rather than get 3.5% calculated like magic by them. That's why I was disgusted. I would write an article about that, but after talking with you guys in this channel I was unmotivated.	[22:16]
felipelalli	I had never thought that they did not deserve even taken seriously, but it seems to make sense.	[22:18]
felipelalli	PeterL: what is the rate per month you can get where you live? I heard it is much less than here.	[22:18]
felipelalli	PeterL: sorry, the question was to Pierre_Rochard	[22:19]
Pierre_Rochard	Pierre_Rochard: I think the worst credit cards run for 2% per month, 30 yr fixed rate mortgage with good credit will cost you 0.33% per month	[22:22]
Pierre_Rochard	ehrm felipelalli	[22:22]
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ben_vulpes	felipelalli: aha, that's why all the butthurt	[22:26]
felipelalli	ben_vulpes: yes! :)	[22:26]
felipelalli	ben_vulpes: I thought it was a global problem, but I learned here that: 1) there are rich guys (you guys) that really don't care about it. 2) there are guys with rich friends :) 3) your interest rate are ridiculous cheap. BTCJam really don't solve anything to you.	[22:30]
felipelalli	and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you.	[22:31]
ben_vulpes	aside one can't actually invest in BTCJam as such.	[22:31]
felipelalli	They could invest on me there. I was a very secure investment, e.g.	[22:32]
felipelalli	So, this: http://blog.btcjam.com/2015/03/19/btcjam-introduces-risk-based-pricing-interest-rates-set-automatically-by-credit-score/ makes me "cry". I ran to qntra.net to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view.	[22:35]
assbot	BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) \| BTCJam Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhcebi )	[22:35]
PeterL	you might be a fine investment, but btcjam is not	[22:35]
felipelalli	But I could easily be found there. And I have personal friends there, that I know it is a secure investment. That's why I only had profit, very few lost.	[22:37]
felipelalli	Actually it was easy to find red flags in the lists. Unfortunately their system does not help that much, but if you are smart, you can see the clues.	[22:38]
PeterL	see, you had wot ouside of btcjam that made those investments worthwhile	[22:38]
felipelalli	Yes! PeterL Exactly.	[22:38]
felipelalli	They were just like a tool to make easy contact 30 friends at the same time, and make it in 5 min. (actually in this 30 friends there were friends of friends, like level 2 in WoT))	[22:39]
*	nubbins` (~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:40]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:c1de:f645:cd3c:83ab) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:40]
felipelalli	And it makes more impersonal and passive. Instead to make a spam asking for money to your family and friends (active and personal), you can just publish the list (passive and impersonal) and anyone can invest if they want, or just ignore. Like 5 people I know personally invest their first 30% and the rest was "friends of friends". It just worked to me because I had a good "outside WoT".	[22:43]
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ben_vulpes	a good scammatron has totally legitimate uses and users.	[22:47]
ben_vulpes	well	[22:47]
ben_vulpes	one breed of good scammatrons.	[22:47]
felipelalli	LOL	[22:47]
PeterL	it is easier for scammers to hide if there are legitamate users around them	[22:48]
felipelalli	PeterL: ugly truth.	[22:49]
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danielpbarron	felipelalli, get your friends in here	[22:54]
danielpbarron	no reason you guys have to stop lending at your prefered rates	[22:55]
PeterL	do the speak english?	[22:55]
felipelalli	PeterL: no, Portuguese.	[22:55]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: I'm trying to convince some of them to use OTC system at least.	[22:56]
ben_vulpes	at the very least they need to be in the WoT	[22:56]
ben_vulpes	for their own continued health.	[22:56]
felipelalli	But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different.	[22:56]
scoopbot	New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/users-of-evo-marketplace-btc-e-are-like-two-peas-in-a-pod/	[22:56]
ben_vulpes	all of the above is why btcjam is a scam from the -assets perspective.	[22:57]
ben_vulpes	trust cannot be automatic, is built slowly, must be on personal terms, and contracts are always active.	[22:57]
ben_vulpes	this "passive investment" routine is a holdover from the fiat days.	[22:57]
ben_vulpes	of necessity, it must die.	[22:57]
felipelalli	I am not saying the trust should be automatic or fast. But the funding process.	[22:58]
PeterL	but you can passively invest with a broker who is in the WoT	[22:58]
*	badon (~badon@pdpc/supporter/active/badon) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:58]
felipelalli	Like jurov ?	[22:58]
ben_vulpes	funding is as fast as a confirmation.	[22:58]
ben_vulpes	PeterL: who's taking investment?	[22:58]
*	nubbins` has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[22:59]
PeterL	I was thinking like Jurov, yes	[22:59]
felipelalli	He said something like that to me one day.	[22:59]
asciilifeform	PeterL: have you looked at open access journals like http://www.hindawi.com/ ? << even if, through divine intervention, everyone suddenly began to publish there (they won't) - this doesn't solve the 20th century	[23:00]
assbot	Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhgTdo )	[23:00]
asciilifeform	PeterL: where most of the things i take an interest in actually happened.	[23:00]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: what do you mean by 'passive investment' ?	[23:01]
PeterL	you just need a couple slave girls with some cameras to tour all teh libraries	[23:01]
asciilifeform	PeterL: see 'ooda loop' discussion	[23:01]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: something like MPIF	[23:02]
asciilifeform	even aside from the ooda loop, the #1 thing in a library is serendipity	[23:02]
felipelalli	Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.?	[23:04]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: what would be an example of an active investment ?	[23:04]
PeterL	MPIF is sorely lacking in places to put its money	[23:04]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: allocating capital oneself between MPOE/BBET/BTC	[23:04]
ben_vulpes	am i misusing these terms?	[23:04]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: so is your hypothesis that allocating btc between investments is so difficult and/or uninteresting that no one can do it for you for a fee and there still be anything left over to work with ?	[23:05]
*	asciilifeform is eminently unqualified to comment on the hypothesis itself, if this is it	[23:06]
ben_vulpes	no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	^	[23:07]
PeterL	You don't see a niche for a mutual fund covering MPEx?	[23:07]
ben_vulpes	in practice, i'm unaware of anyone offering to manage btc between MPOE/BBET/NSA/BTC for a fee.	[23:07]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i was thinking about a hypothetical larger world where there are many worthwhile things	[23:08]
ben_vulpes	some day, ideally.	[23:08]
asciilifeform	say, S.USFAT	[23:08]
PeterL	once a few more stocks show up on the exchange	[23:08]
asciilifeform	(rendering various organisms for soap, a growth industry in the near future)	[23:09]
mod6	:D	[23:09]
PeterL	maybe I could run that? pretty simple chemical reaction, really	[23:09]
asciilifeform	http://cryptome.org/2015/03/google-adsense-spying.htm << mega-l0l	[23:09]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HhiMqr )	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	what's usfat ?	[23:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: u.s. fat.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:10]
PeterL	organisms, like tilapia? http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jchem/2015/265160/	[23:10]
assbot	Characterization of the Fatty Acids Present in Wastewaters from Production of Biodiesel Tilapia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhiYpB )	[23:10]
asciilifeform	no, like homo redditicus	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	i know a girl that makes soaps and stuff. she wouldn't touch the coarse stuff.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	contrary to what they claim in fight club, best fat base is like, various nut oils etc.	[23:11]
asciilifeform	then diesel.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[23:12]
*	asciilifeform firmly convinced that there are no entirely useless things in this world	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	oil at 45 a barrel tho...	[23:12]
asciilifeform	not even redditors	[23:12]
ben_vulpes	by the time the corpses are available, they'll have scavenged their own fat prior to dying.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	how about sitching footballs ?	[23:12]
ben_vulpes	you've seen the auschwitz photos...	[23:12]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: there is a hypothesis that this will not happen this time around. because of sudden release of fat-soluble poisons	[23:13]
asciilifeform	that weren't there in '40s	[23:13]
ben_vulpes	oh yeah?	[23:13]
ben_vulpes	i'm unfamiliar with this hypothesis	[23:13]
asciilifeform	aha. has not been tested in practice, afaik	[23:13]
asciilifeform	and i forget who suggested it to me	[23:13]
ben_vulpes	what's the gist, though	[23:13]
ben_vulpes	mustard gas...again?	[23:13]
asciilifeform	the gist is that folks will croak long before they turn auschwitz-thin	[23:13]
asciilifeform	on account of various strange in their american diet	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's exactly it. american fat is more like, chemdump	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	everything the liver culdn't cope with, got stored on the thighs	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	and yes it has been tested in practice.	[23:14]
ben_vulpes	blee	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	by me. on actual live womenz.	[23:14]
asciilifeform	and malnutrition turns the organism uniquely underequipped to deal with the released crud.	[23:15]
PeterL	so we need to render and extract the usians before making them into soap	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	not even malnutrition. simple sane diet will make the woman sick, anemic, the works.	[23:15]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what happens, roughly ?	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	an exercise in slimming down a rubenesque babe lead to...liver prazlems?	[23:15]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform all the classical symptoms of light poisoning.	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: what was diet prior?	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	"us food"	[23:16]
PeterL	us "food"	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	also.	[23:16]
ben_vulpes	"us" "food"	[23:16]
ben_vulpes	(for symmetry)	[23:16]
felipelalli	"us" food	[23:16]
asciilifeform	'eat recycled food!' (TM)	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	"us "food"" technically. first set because answer to q, 2nd set because well...	[23:17]
ben_vulpes	heh.	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	but you can readily notice the pure chemical osmotic source of "weight gain" when the woman eats 50% more calories and loses weight.	[23:17]
ben_vulpes	body building fat reserves to park toxic crap in?	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	in general, you gotta overfeed to lose weight. because the only way the body is even touching some of that stuff is if the liver is full of all sorts of micronutrients to render it with	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	yup	[23:18]
ben_vulpes	what are the limiting reactants?	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	then after a year or two as the body re-learns to associate food with micronutrients - all sorts of urges, as it approaches various layers of problems	[23:19]
asciilifeform	almost sounds like the '80s 'chelation' theory	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i honestly think it's exactly accurate.	[23:19]
*	asciilifeform suspected but did not know	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes i dunno dood. milk's a big thing. various fats, various vegetals.	[23:19]
PeterL	I'm guessing colorful vegtables help?	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	one chick went through a chickpea phase where she ate > 100 cans over about a year. half of it within the first season.	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	"what do you want to eat today ?" "chickpeas"	[23:20]
*	asciilifeform looks for al schwartz's table of plant toxins; can't find at the moment, but recalls that chickpeas were near the top for something or other	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	i think it was either a protein or fat that was needed for god knows what. because phase passed.	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	sadly i don't have the patience or the tools to actually get into the microchemistry of it	[23:22]
asciilifeform	;;google lathyrism	[23:22]
gribble	Lathyrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Lathyrism: a neurotoxic disease.: ; Lathyrism \| Doctor \| Patient.co.uk:	[23:22]
asciilifeform	hm not chickpeas	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	im 100% sure this is where all the "Fad diet" stuff comes from too.	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	people still stuck in the soup get at the margins various such desperate cries from body.	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	some make it through	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	hence the idiocy of "eat nothing else but ...."	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	really it should be "leave the states and eat ... to your fill".	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	but o may gawd, leaving THE COUNTRY, unthinkable.	[23:24]
ben_vulpes	STEAK	[23:24]
ben_vulpes	VINO	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	i have no experience with men.	[23:24]
*	asciilifeform wonders if anyone ever polled, who would leave if could	[23:24]
asciilifeform	or whether such a thing even makes sense	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform just sayin', doesn't occur to them.	[23:25]
asciilifeform	doesn't occur !?!	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	nope.	[23:25]
asciilifeform	how many folks in usa went on an airplane even once? did it not occur to not buy return ticket?	[23:25]
asciilifeform	even as thought experiment	[23:25]
PeterL	this is the best country evar, why would I leave?	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	"but muh jerb"	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	PeterL it has its disadvantages.	[23:26]
asciilifeform	'Kazakhstan! greatest country in the world! all other countrys are run by little girls...' (tm)	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places".	[23:26]
PeterL	plus, most of them would say they could leave, if they wanted to	[23:26]
ben_vulpes	lol	[23:26]
ben_vulpes	i would leave if i could	[23:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this is not accidental. folks who travel from usa to english-speaking (or most western eu in general) aren't actually leaving the empire	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	which is why stuff like "putin doesn't understand how thw world works" can be said with a straight face	[23:27]
asciilifeform	and hence 'not real places' is factual	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	for a good chunk of the audience, this is actually so. it's not even a real country.	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no, because they stick to the touristy traps anywhere. stopped for coffee earlier at whorehouse cafe, table across two lost derps with ipad propped on "south america on a shoestring". muy confused.	[23:28]
asciilifeform	'Ist dis Nazi Land so good? Would you leave it if you could? Ja, dis Nazi Land ist good! We would leave if we could.' ('der fuhrer's face', 1942)	[23:28]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: oh hey can we do the whorehouse cafe?	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	haha, re that, must has animaniacs	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes sure.	[23:28]
asciilifeform	that was a 'donald duck'	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk	[23:29]
assbot	Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhmK2g )	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	remake.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzH1iaKVsBM << classic	[23:29]
assbot	Donald Duck der Nazi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhmX5r )	[23:29]
ben_vulpes	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FI3tGgD4nMk << "americans ruin everything" - lady v	[23:32]
assbot	Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HhnxQO )	[23:32]
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asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: "but muh jerb" << when you open a metal shop in #b-a, perhaps i can go and work sweeping floor there.	[23:32]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes lol	[23:32]
ben_vulpes	myeah she's a chuckle.	[23:33]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: it'll probably be well outside of city limits	[23:33]
ben_vulpes	nearer that southern port city	[23:34]
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asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nknPYKw2QM	[23:36]
assbot	U.S. Army - Booby Traps - Banned Cartoons - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJqk7y )	[23:36]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062798 << you know ? just as unthinkable as the http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-03-2015#1063368	[23:39]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 21:00:49; asciilifeform: the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable.	[23:39]
assbot	Logged on 22-03-2015 02:22:03; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places".	[23:39]
mircea_popescu	lots of "unthinkables" needed to keep the soviets going.	[23:39]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062825 << how the fuck is this open source.	[23:41]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 21:47:01; decimation: the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	apple "open" : we'll give you some fiction to read while the thing boots ?	[23:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: rms has a term of art for it, 'tivoization'	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	mhm	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062860 << except a)nobody trusts it and b) it doesn't actually trust anyone. lots of scammy devs make it on account of w/e fee.	[23:43]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 21:56:58; decimation: on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot'	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	heck, zinga still exists on apple right ?	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062877 << since no more welfare, so idiots either starve or slave.	[23:45]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 21:59:40; nubbins`: i won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors?	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062896 << this is kinda how the illegal racing world works.	[23:46]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:02:30; pete_dushenski: buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine	[23:46]
cazalla	felipelalli: I ran to qntra.net to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view. <<< fwiw i would never lend bitcoin to people on btcjam regardless of their ability to pay back, i'd never use the site to borrow either, so i guess it's not so difficult to see why i would not write a story on it either	[23:47]
cazalla	felipelalli, if you only use it to borrow, i don't really see the problem with you using it, but i'd never lend	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	how are silk road copycats supposed to make enough to run away with if you won't give the pillheads "loans" yo ?	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	think of the children!	[23:48]
ben_vulpes	we've been looking into the apple "enterprise deployment" story of late	[23:48]
ben_vulpes	always keeping in mind that it is a rug	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	^	[23:49]
ben_vulpes	and the ghost of steve is yet prepared to rip it out from beneath us	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	i briefly considered adding an apple apps thing for s.mg	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	the idea... died.	[23:49]
ben_vulpes	apple is pretty much anathema to the #b-a approach to compute.	[23:49]
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mircea_popescu	or to any approach that includes anyone but apple making money.	[23:50]
ben_vulpes	one of the reasons i'm not targeting macos for RI builds.	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062973 << isn't that how that kid got shot with a nailgun by andreas antonoderpopolous ?	[23:51]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:31:05; decimation: sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly	[23:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00027195 = 12.9584 BTC [-]	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1062976 << in this vein : http://40.media.tumblr.com/982abc36543d4b8bab3d12582b23fab6/tumblr_mw5pbmKA9N1t16d43o1_1280.jpg	[23:52]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:33:07; nubbins`: fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity	[23:52]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Hhr7dM )	[23:52]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: reminiscent of anthill chick	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	notrly. this is fun.	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063000 << alf was wikibinging before it was cool.	[23:53]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:40:21; asciilifeform: most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose	[23:53]
danielpbarron	in comments for that disney nazi thing: "Who im german and I dont like this we are nice and hittler whs the only bad german"	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063019 << nah, only some of them. we're ignoring most of it : http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/	[23:55]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:51:01; PeterL: new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library	[23:55]
assbot	How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdlojA )	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	but i can envisage the day when a) all science is published via b-a, and to read... get in wot	[23:55]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063033 << at least originally. prolly split off on its own thing once it gets big.	[23:56]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:55:01; PeterL: would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research?	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063048 << same mechanbism as to produce the good code separately. sign and wot.	[23:57]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 22:59:27; asciilifeform: we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet.	[23:57]
asciilifeform	nono not that part	[23:58]
asciilifeform	the what-do-they-eat.	[23:58]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2015#1063058 << that's basically gossipd.	[23:59]
assbot	Logged on 21-03-2015 23:04:58; trinque: asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy	[23:59]
*	dEBRUYNE_ (~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform eat ?	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	what is this, the future ?	[23:59]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	geniuses don't eat	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	geniuses starve.	[23:59]

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