Forum logs for 20 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	(the Dictionnaire raisonne des sciences, des arts, et des metiers. was essentially a b-a of the time fork of human knowledge of the time. it was wildly successful in spite of being mostly wrong)	[00:01]
trinque	I don't know much about rousseau, except that I recall him being mentioned by someone who was arguing bureaucracy was the greatest of all human inventions, and this with utter seriousness	[00:03]
decimation	mircea_popescu: but many of the folks in that wot ended up throwing derps into the woodchipper	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	trinque that's about where you'd expect it.	[00:03]
trinque	person was a fucking moron who worshipped big govt	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	decimation who, d'alembert ? lebreton ?	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	trinque bureaucracy has its uses. the problem is that the context it'd be useful in and the context in which it thrives are so wildly divorced.	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	sorta like how wolves would make excellent guard dogs, if only they stopped going and killing all the sheep and stayed at the fucking door instead.	[00:05]
asciilifeform	one might even say: bureaucracy was the first computer	[00:05]
decimation	voltaire, et al weren't exactly fans of the ancien regime	[00:05]
asciilifeform	computer of meat	[00:05]
trinque	I can see the point; a space is declared within which rules and processes accumulate	[00:06]
asciilifeform	peter 1 introduced bureaucracy in ru, and is worshipped for it	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	voltaire was a great fan, what are you talking about ?	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ayup/	[00:06]
trinque	but doing the accumulation as a good in itself seems to be where the insanity lies?	[00:06]
trinque	I recall the self-licking ice cream cone metaphor	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the computer of meat approach may well explain why it sucks so bad since 1900s. not a bad heuristic.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	it is how i always explain it to n00bs	[00:07]
asciilifeform	can make a computer out of near-anything	[00:07]
asciilifeform	but the only suitable material, in the old days, was meat	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	the other thing is : bureaucracy makes an excellent woman and an applaing man.	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	for as long as bureaucracy = the slaves of peter, or julius, or w/e, that may well work.	[00:08]
[]bot	Bet placed: 20 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 103.1868 BTC. Current weight: 79,985.	[00:08]
trinque	so happens the fan of bureaucracy was female	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	once people try to be run by a bureaucracy however... god help'em.	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	even patently retarded stuff like "Smart contracts" seem preferable by that experience.	[00:10]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scUdQuy6SZc	[00:11]
assbot	Hermes Bureaucrat song - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzqJYM )	[00:11]
asciilifeform	^	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	til "transhumanism" has a logo	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck does this work.	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	i've never seen cancer this organised before.	[00:12]
asciilifeform	take it up with thiel	[00:12]
asciilifeform	who, as i understand, is paying	[00:12]
mircea_popescu	oh, is that it ?	[00:13]
asciilifeform	aha	[00:13]
asciilifeform	him.	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	"Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities."	[00:13]
asciilifeform	note that not even remotely true as printed on the crate	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	why so shy you know ? what's wrong with "Transhumanism is Thiel's stab at b-a. He thinks Omidyar's stab at qntra failed for reasons unrelated."	[00:14]
asciilifeform	-zero- actual work on lickliderian or engelbartian 'intelligence amplification' concept from these bozos	[00:14]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[00:14]
asciilifeform	much less anything actually hard like ai	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	"This article is about the futurist ideology and movement. For the critique of humanism, see posthumanism. For the pattern of seasonal migration, see transhumance. For persons experiencing incongruence between their actual gender and the gender assigned to them at birth, see trans man, trans woman, and transgender." << best part imo.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	l0l!	[00:15]
asciilifeform	no mention of trans fats?	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works. "nobody's using bitcoin, nobody could have foreseen their using a plane as a rocket and nobody's doing anything better nor anything better could exist than ... you know, raising awareness"	[00:15]
asciilifeform	or transesterification ?	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	it's a thing, all this.	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	"The most common thesis put forward is that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label posthuman."	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	check it out lmao, an international cultural and intellectual "movement" that aspires to one day... label soemthing!	[00:16]
asciilifeform	'able' because cthulhu will wish it ?	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	no but it's splendid. so they aspire to... names!	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	maybe humanity could go to transyale and get a transphd ?	[00:17]
trinque	someday we will be caught up in the heavens with white robes, and our bodies will be purified	[00:17]
trinque	there's gotta be a damn circuit for this shit in the head	[00:18]
asciilifeform	trinque: they have a literal version of this!	[00:18]
asciilifeform	'uploading'	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	"This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990 and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement."	[00:18]
trinque	asciilifeform: lol oh I know	[00:18]
trinque	it is techno-christianity	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	basically this is scientology bahai ? do they speak esperanto ?	[00:18]
asciilifeform	trinque: it was slightly more interesting before was obvious sc4mz0r1ng	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	"Influenced by seminal works of science fiction, the transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives." aaahahahaha	[00:18]
mircea_popescu	dude omfg... this is a parody is it ?	[00:19]
asciilifeform	when tech was actually kinda moving, '70s-80s, and a number of things looked quasi-plausible with one eye closed	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	wikipedia is turning into tvtropes.	[00:19]
trinque	asciilifeform: yudkowski even invented the beast or satan or w/e, that AI that resolves to abuse your eternal soul forever if you oppose it	[00:19]
trinque	hm might not have been him, but I read he fears it	[00:19]
asciilifeform	trinque: aha	[00:19]
asciilifeform	no it was him	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	how do you abuse the eternal soul ?	[00:19]
mircea_popescu	make it read bad fanfic about "bullies" ?	[00:19]
trinque	pls don't trigger me	[00:19]
asciilifeform	he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation	[00:20]
trinque	triggered for all time!	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck is max moore is what i wanna know	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	"Max More (born Max T. O'Connor, January 1964) is a philosopher and futurist who writes, speaks, and consults on advanced decision-making about emerging technologies."	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	...	[00:20]
asciilifeform	!s jaron lanier	[00:20]
assbot	6 results for 'jaron lanier' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jaron+lanier	[00:20]
asciilifeform	!s digirati	[00:20]
assbot	0 results for 'digirati' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=digirati	[00:20]
asciilifeform	^ them.	[00:20]
decimation	we discussed lanier earlier	[00:20]
asciilifeform	that entire social set.	[00:20]
mircea_popescu	so like... being a playboy model without the tits ?	[00:21]
asciilifeform	'public intellectuals'	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	not quite.	[00:21]
asciilifeform	as seen elsewhere on the planet. cocksucking sycophants of the most degenerate imaginable kind	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	public intellectuals are actually educated people.	[00:21]
mircea_popescu	how about "marketeers without a product" ?	[00:21]
asciilifeform	using the phrase in the derisive chinese sense	[00:22]
*	mike_c has quit ()	[00:22]
decimation	their produt is 'pay attention to meee'	[00:22]
asciilifeform	(as described in http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-rage-of-cultural-elites.html )	[00:22]
assbot	ClubOrlov: The Rage of the Cultural Elites ... ( http://bit.ly/1CrL2Jb )	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	Founder of the Extropy Institute, Max More has written many articles espousing the philosophy of transhumanism and the transhumanist philosophy of extropy,[6] most importantly his Principles of Extropy (currently version 3.11)	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	ok, this im reading then	[00:22]
mircea_popescu	"Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to entropy. As entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	holy shit. enthalpy never happened ?	[00:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the actual founding document of mr y's garbage is actually this: http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html	[00:23]
assbot	Vernor Vinge on the Singularity ... ( http://bit.ly/198l4wD )	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	god im sick of fucktarded usians giving their name to random items.	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	"and this tree i call jorje".	[00:23]
*	asciilifeform has an ancient copy of this, printed on matrix printer, yellowed with ages	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	"Extropy also attempts to describe the nature of the order, so a crystal , although highly ordered would have low extropy, but an organism or machine would have high extropy because of the informational structure contained within it. "	[00:23]
mircea_popescu	where's my red F	[00:24]
asciilifeform	vinge was (is?) a maths prof who went off the reservation and turned into a 3rd rate sf writer	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	http://www.extropy.org/principles.htm	[00:24]
assbot	Object not found! ... ( http://bit.ly/198linx )	[00:24]
mircea_popescu	check out the complexity. fucking fucktards already.	[00:24]
asciilifeform	!s vinge	[00:24]
assbot	3 results for 'vinge' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=vinge	[00:24]
asciilifeform	possibly '3rd rate' is uncharitable. but he is quite unreadable today	[00:25]
*	asciilifeform tried	[00:25]
decimation	of course all of them would dismiss the YHWH worshipping Jews and Christians as credulous simpletons	[00:25]
decimation	but fear the great AI demon!	[00:25]
mircea_popescu	Date: Thu, March 19, 2015 11:21 pm	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	To: webmaster@extropy.org	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	Hello, we	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	think you are stupid.	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	Carry on.	[00:26]
asciilifeform	decimation: never mind that not one could describe the first thing about building a computer which does not barf regularly	[00:26]
trinque	:D	[00:26]
decimation	asciilifeform: hey, they have a research program	[00:26]
mircea_popescu	In the mid-1970s F.M. Esfandiary legally[5] changed his name to FM-2030 for two main reasons. Firstly, to reflect the hope and belief that he would live to celebrate his 100th birthday in 2030	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	died in 2000.	[00:27]
mircea_popescu	must suck to be these people.	[00:28]
asciilifeform	they have... phaith!	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	The concept of the technological singularity, or the ultra-rapid advent of superhuman intelligence, was first proposed by the British cryptologist I. J. Good in 1965: "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever."	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	check it out...	[00:28]
asciilifeform	betcha he croaked convinced to the hilt he'd be ancestor-simmed.	[00:28]
mircea_popescu	i love these scientists that don't even bother putting magic numbers in the code anymore.	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	hey asciilifeform have we far surpassed yet or not ?	[00:29]
asciilifeform	much.	[00:29]
*	bitstein (~bitstein@unaffiliated/bitstein) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/H%2B_Cover_1.jpg << "Cover of the first issue of h+ Magazine, a web-based quarterly publication that focuses on transhumanism."	[00:29]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/198mLKk )	[00:30]
*	assbot gives voice to bitstein	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	apaprently the future is with bad lipstick and weirdo muslim headwear.	[00:30]
asciilifeform	the vinge essay is pertinent to the 'phoom' (actual name, iirc, for the apocalypse mechanism mr y believes in)	[00:30]
mircea_popescu	;;google Natasha Vita-More nude	[00:31]
gribble	Natasha Vita-More on Whole Body Prosthetic - YouTube: ; Bone Density on Vimeo: ; Natasha Vita-More on Vimeo:	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	mmmkay.	[00:31]
asciilifeform	'phoom' is, in his cosmology, the conflagration resulting from a 'non-friendly' (read: not designed under mr y's tutelage) thinking machine which sets to work improving and crafting copies of self	[00:31]
asciilifeform	out of the remaining universe (how? ask him, not me)	[00:31]
asciilifeform	this is also called 'paperclipping'	[00:31]
mircea_popescu	wikipedia goes through an entire bio article without resolving her relationship to the max more dude.	[00:31]
bitstein	asciilifeform:he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation << Roko's Basilisk at least frightened people enough for him to delete everything about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LessWrong#Roko.27s_basilisk	[00:32]
asciilifeform	from an illustration where a malevolent apparatus converts all of the matter in the universe into paperclips.	[00:32]
assbot	LessWrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/198npHM )	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform why exactly do we suspect very intelligent machines would reproduce ?	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	very intelligent humans don't seem to.	[00:32]
asciilifeform	in his doctrine, it wasn't specified as something they would necessarily do to reproduce in the animal sense, but as a side-effect of operation	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	right. just like people.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	sorta like fire doesn't distinguish between 'designated' fuel and your house	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	but fire is not intelligent.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	basically he proposed that intelligence per se could behave like fire.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	so his idea of superintelligence is superstupidity ?	[00:34]
asciilifeform	aha.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	way to let one's own wounded narcisism get hold of the whole cart.	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	seriously eliezer baby : first off we know you're stupid, and second off it really doesn't make much difference. okay ?	[00:34]
mircea_popescu	let it rest.	[00:34]
asciilifeform	specifically that any 'superintelligence' not crafted under his tutelage would inevitably turn into a world-burner of superstupid	[00:34]
*	poli_ (55f42953@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.244.41.83) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:35]
decimation	mircea_popescu: the problem is that he's been 'endowed', which means his new career is to pump this stuff out	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	sorta like unbaptised kids ?	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	!up poli_	[00:35]
-assbot-	You voiced poli_ for 30 minutes.	[00:35]
*	assbot gives voice to poli_	[00:35]
poli_	Hey	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	decimation hardly much of a problem neh ?	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	and who might you be poli_ ?	[00:35]
poli_	Is Milk here? I have a question regarding Bitbets.	[00:35]
decimation	well, insofar as it acts as a bezzlar sink, no	[00:35]
poli_	An enterprising bitcoin lover.	[00:35]
mircea_popescu	shoot.	[00:36]
poli_	Referred to this overflowing channel via bitbet as well.	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	decimation some other guy got a job as area supervisor of kfc, you know ? nothing wrong with it.	[00:36]
mircea_popescu	poli_ so what's your question ?	[00:36]
poli_	I was curious as to what kind of political questions are allowed.	[00:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i'm half convinced that yudkowsky's job is to tie up the brain cpu cycles of folks who could amount to something	[00:37]
asciilifeform	into harmless masturbatorium	[00:37]
poli_	My own specialty is in politicaly analysis and I've been waiting for the chance to put my knowledge to good use.	[00:37]
trinque	asciilifeform: "the beautiful ones"	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	poli_ so go for it.	[00:37]
asciilifeform	his forum housed the largest collection of people who showed symptoms of having a brain which i ever encountered prior to #b-a	[00:37]
asciilifeform	at least, encountered in one place	[00:37]
poli_	As in ask the question here?	[00:37]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform interesting.	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	anyone willing to admit an ex lesswrong persona ?	[00:38]
poli_	Why not, sure.	[00:38]
danielpbarron	!s "ask to ask"	[00:38]
assbot	6 results for '"ask to ask"' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%22ask+to+ask%22	[00:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: admit << me.	[00:38]
poli_	I know lesswrong all to well.	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[00:38]
asciilifeform	http://lesswrong.com/user/asciilifeform/overview	[00:38]
assbot	Overview for asciilifeform - Less Wrong	[00:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you got banned for spamming ?	[00:39]
asciilifeform	not quite	[00:39]
asciilifeform	just told that 'the likes of you ain't welcom'	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	"Roko's basilisk is a thought experiment that assumes that an otherwise benevolent future artificial intelligence (AI) would torture the simulated selves of the people who did not help bring about the AI's existence. [...] The concept was proposed in 2010 by contributor Roko in a discussion on LessWrong. Yudkowsky deleted the posts regarding it and banned further discussion of Roko's basilisk on LessWrong after it had	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	apparently caused several contributors who took it seriously considerable anguish."	[00:39]
poli_	But anyways, mine question. Would I be allowed to bet on the following question: President Poroshenko will cease to be president of the Ukraine within 4 months.	[00:39]
asciilifeform	but in all fairness i haven't pushed the knob on that account in years	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	i don't get it. why would anyone care about some simulation ?!	[00:39]
asciilifeform	no idea if still worx	[00:39]
mircea_popescu	poli_ yes.	[00:39]
poli_	Well the idea is that Roko's basilisk	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	afaik there's a bunch of these.	[00:40]
poli_	will motivate people into bringing it around	[00:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: why would anyone care about some simulation << in mr y's world, the simulated organism -is- you	[00:40]
poli_	thereby bringing the simulation into existence	[00:40]
poli_	So burn all the records so people dont think of it	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	https://bitbet.us/bet/1007/president-obama-impeached-before-2015/ etc	[00:40]
assbot	BitBet - President Obama Impeached before 2015 :: 0.01 B (6%) on Yes, 0.15 B (94%) on No \| closed 4 months 2 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/198plzZ )	[00:40]
poli_	Sweet, and thanks for the answer on the question.	[00:40]
mircea_popescu	https://bitbet.us/bet/761/venezuelan-president-to-step-down/ etc	[00:41]
assbot	BitBet - Venezuelan President to step down :: 0.34 B (17%) on Yes, 1.61 B (83%) on No \| closed 11 months 1 week ago ... ( http://bit.ly/198pmUy )	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	poli_ hit the search button, select politics and all bets, and see what the cat drags.	[00:41]
poli_	and I don't mean 'impeached', I mean 'cease beingr president', but whatever means fate happens to employ.	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what do you mean "is"	[00:41]
bitstein	asciilifeform: great link you had posted back in 2009: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/rec.org.mensa/YnGkZSpALew/vsr0iDobXDwJ	[00:41]
assbot	Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/198ptPW )	[00:41]
asciilifeform	'is' (in their view) in the same way as the 'you' who goes to the toilet and then comes back 'is' you.	[00:41]
poli_	I figured you wouldn't be allowed to bet on overtly non-legal happenings. Thanks for the help Mircea	[00:42]
asciilifeform	bitstein: penny is inimitable and timeless	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	poli_ so do they keep attacking wikipedia to take it off ?	[00:42]
asciilifeform	bitstein: she was one of the more interesting folks i ever saw on the net. entirely vanished, long ago.	[00:42]
mircea_popescu	i don't get the argument tho, why is superai of the future influenced by ruminations of humans today	[00:43]
poli_	No idea. I stopped following Lesswrong a while back.	[00:43]
poli_	They got super spergy and fairly degen.	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	;;ud dege	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	;;ud degen	[00:43]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dege \| Bre 2 : Alow him fam hes a top dege, chek his high bats. Bre 1 : LOL Example 2. Bre 1 : That dege gets ber rude fam, i dashd his book out da window. Bre 2 : LOL ...	[00:43]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=degen \| A degen is one step above the dero or derelict in the scale of madness. Scozz Walker ... Gamblers consider other gamblers degens, but not themselves usually.	[00:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the idea is that the mega-ai appears and has, somehow (forget physics for a moment) a total record of all things	[00:43]
bitstein	asciilifeform: is there an archive somewhere of her writing?	[00:43]
poli_	Plus, I didn't think the Roko's Basilisk scenario was all that likely.	[00:43]
samO__	scoopbot shesek shinohai so starsoccer Stellarflip STRML	[00:43]
poli_	personal opinion there	[00:43]
asciilifeform	bitstein: google groups has most of it, but no longer searchable.	[00:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform then it's done, no ?	[00:43]
asciilifeform	bitstein: my hard disk has the 2nd largest, i suspect.	[00:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: aha done	[00:44]
asciilifeform	but thinking about it was giving some of mr y's gurlz nightmares	[00:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what happens if i make two simulations of the same one slavegirl and order them both to fight to the death ?	[00:44]
asciilifeform	and so he declared jihad	[00:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i haven't tried this	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	(while the original's watching, of course)	[00:45]
asciilifeform	so cannot rightfully apprehend what happens	[00:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78100 @ 0.00029644 = 23.152 BTC [-]	[00:45]
asciilifeform	who is stronger, the elephant or the whale.	[00:45]
mircea_popescu	i suppose i got to ask lesswrong, they seem to know all sortsa shit about how shit that doesn't exist works.	[00:45]
asciilifeform	i did say to mr y 'inventing circuit breaker before discovering electric current'	[00:46]
asciilifeform	there was no interesting reply.	[00:46]
poli_	indeed Mircea.	[00:46]
poli_	indeed.	[00:46]
asciilifeform	thing is, he wasn't always a charlatan	[00:46]
asciilifeform	was once an enthusiastic self-taught kid	[00:46]
scoopbot	New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/03/uk-regulates-self-out-of-bitcoin/	[00:46]
asciilifeform	wrote to him in the '90s while also a kid	[00:46]
decimation	I take all of the above writing as evidence that the authors in question have never tried to create a real simulation on an actual computer	[00:46]
mircea_popescu	all sorts of fun could be had here. what if i get a simulation of me to impregnate the actual girl, and then i impregnate the simulation of her.	[00:46]
asciilifeform	my first pgp-gram actually.	[00:46]
asciilifeform	he wrote back, seemed like a c00l d00d	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform self-teaching IS quite like fire.	[00:47]
mircea_popescu	i've known many of these, they look like radiation. sooner or later start moving toward wall.	[00:47]
asciilifeform	at the time he actually was trying to scarf up all there was written re: ai, hoping to build something new	[00:47]
asciilifeform	the 'flip' happened, iirc, some time in the early 2000s when his brother died of mysterious death	[00:47]
asciilifeform	mr y had a breakdown of sort	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	was he bullied ?	[00:48]
asciilifeform	fuck if i know	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	would explain a lot of bad fiction i read in sumary.	[00:48]
asciilifeform	he was drummed out of school as a youth	[00:48]
asciilifeform	for what, i do not know	[00:48]
*	Lycerion has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	can't figure out how to thank that physics dude that read what seems like > 500 pages of shit.	[00:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i meant the bro.	[00:48]
asciilifeform	http://richardkulisz.blogspot.com/search/label/yudkowsky << another mr y h8t3r	[00:49]
assbot	Richard Kulisz: yudkowsky ... ( http://bit.ly/198rEmI )	[00:49]
asciilifeform	^ also old net crackpot	[00:49]
bitstein	asciilifeform: ah, okay. i'll peruse that.	[00:49]
*	Lycerion (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:49]
*	asciilifeform does not endorse mr k wholesale	[00:49]
asciilifeform	but stimulating reading	[00:49]
mircea_popescu	decimation i have the same impression.	[00:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00030268 = 1.6042 BTC [+]	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	fucking blogspot.	[00:50]
mircea_popescu	"What is rationality? It's the ability to make life plans which reach your goals."	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	uh. i don't think so.	[00:51]
*	funkenstein_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	rationality is a purely linguistic property, it has exactly nothing to do with action.	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	rationality is, basically, the ability to distinguish homomorphisms from homologies.	[00:52]
mircea_popescu	(same structure vs same components)	[00:52]
asciilifeform	i meant the bro << ah i've no idea. found dead in a dark alley, iirc, but nothing publicly out afaik beyond that	[00:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00029644 = 1.4081 BTC [-]	[00:53]
asciilifeform	homomorphisms from homologies << doug hofstadter spent a good chunk of his life bashing head against this	[00:53]
mircea_popescu	aha	[00:54]
mircea_popescu	farg is probably one of the better approaches to the ai problem, at any rate.	[00:54]
poli_	Thanks again for the help Mircea, talk to yall later	[00:55]
*	poli_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	cheers]	[00:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this discussion inspires me to the following ai standard : a computer that can distinguish code from data is rational.	[00:56]
*	bitstein has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)	[01:00]
brendafdez	ben_vulpes pls check message :P	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	"It annoys me that idiots continue to use "oh wow, that's so amazing" as the measure of creative genius. Or even worse, that they rely on society's direction to determine who is a creative genius and who isn't. First of all, creative geniuses are RESPECTED and LOOKED UP TO by society. And any position that is looked up to will be coveted by Narcissists who are driven by Glory, such as Richard Feynman who all his life w	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	as driven to be a jerkass asshole and a thief."	[01:03]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	somebody's got some issues o.O	[01:03]
asciilifeform	mr k is a full-bore crackpot, sorta like yours truly but with heavier radiation damage	[01:05]
asciilifeform	iirc he lives somewhere in canada on a meagre pension	[01:05]
decimation	re: simulation > consider 266 bits. the number of possibilities for those bits is equal to the number of electrons in the universe	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	The Real Deal	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	How do I know I'm the real deal instead of a crazed nutter? Because I tend to elicit the 'damn, that's so obvious now' reaction from people who elicit that same reaction from people like you.	[01:06]
mircea_popescu	decimation i don't think anyone seriously considers that entire "simulation as life" thing outside of fiction.	[01:07]
decimation	how is that not exactly the same as "oh wow, that's so amazing'	[01:07]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	it's just too dependent on vast ignorance.	[01:07]
decimation	mircea_popescu: one cannot speak with certainty about the whereabouts of a single electron, even with infinite bezzlars to dispose on the task	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	right.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	decimation: to be fair, even discussing its 'whereabouts' is wrong straight off the bat.	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	it gets worse, there's entire swaths of particles that are mirrored, you'll never know if you've got various pairs right or backwards.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	like dividing by 0.	[01:08]
decimation	asciilifeform: aye	[01:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31335 @ 0.0002959 = 9.272 BTC [-] {2}	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	right, something like that.	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	"Labels: creativity, Psychology, yudkowsky". lol. why ?!	[01:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14715 @ 0.00029203 = 4.2972 BTC [-]	[01:09]
mircea_popescu	"It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky."	[01:10]
asciilifeform	because he ran into him and barfed for a year straight	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	such an internet this internet is.	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	how is some geeky kid pure evil ?!	[01:11]
asciilifeform	in mr k's view, the hypothetical ai is alive and building it 'friendly' (to use mr y's term) is an act of diabolical cruelty	[01:12]
asciilifeform	like growing a kid in a glass jar	[01:12]
asciilifeform	or in usa	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	http://hplusmagazine.com/ <><< ahahahaha o may gawd.	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	"Interview: JeRm La Haine — On Transhuman Unit and his new project IAIO" << http://i0.wp.com/hplusmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Screen-Shot-2015-03-12-at-10.58.28-AM.png?fit=300%2C300	[01:13]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/198w6Sz )	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	"Crowdfunding: Support Titanovo’s Novel Telomere Testing Technology" complete with their own scams an' errything.	[01:13]
asciilifeform	the fella in that picture is such a jaronlanier	[01:13]
asciilifeform	srsly, why must these folks all look alike ?!	[01:14]
*	asciilifeform 's first paying job, while student, pertained to telomerase	[01:14]
asciilifeform	http://www.jimmunol.org/content/166/11/6647.full << mentioned in the 'monkeys' section	[01:15]
assbot	Induction of Telomerase Activity During Development of Human Mast Cells from Peripheral Blood CD34+ Cells: Comparisons with	[01:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75350 @ 0.00028944 = 21.8093 BTC [-] {3}	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	"We thank Stanislav Datskovskiy for his assistance with the measurement of telomerase activity in some of these experiments and Martha Kirby for her expert assistance in the analysis of apoptosis." check you out.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	no prizes for guessing how much use came of this.	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	"Jerm La Haine: I’ve been doing music production and graphic design for just under twenty years now."	[01:17]
decimation	asciilifeform: re: look alike < note that they are all 'alterntive' in the same way. none of them choose to dress like 15th century nobility, for example	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	" Currently I’ve been getting lots of positive attention for my new record label Collective Conscious Records."	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	it's scary what kids today use to describe themselves.	[01:17]
mircea_popescu	decimation shut up, it's LA!!! Haine.	[01:18]
asciilifeform	decimation: aha. nor will they put on a cravat	[01:18]
asciilifeform	you won't catch them dressing up as mircea_popescu	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	(la haine = to clothes, in ro.)	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	"I started the record label because I wasn’t happy with any of the offers i got from other record labels. It’s a way I can release my own stuff on my own terms. After the first couple releases people started getting interested in the label. I’ve even started working out deals with some artists. I recently released a few tracks with Lonnie Dangerous and Collective Conscious Records is getting ready to release an a	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	lbum by Young Boy Hybrid. Currently Collective Conscious Records has eighteen releases available and we have several more on the way this year."	[01:19]
asciilifeform	although to mr mold's credit - the man once proposed that moldbuggerites dress in tweed 'to rebel'	[01:19]
mircea_popescu	the very strange thing here is that he somehow thinks the "releases" are the problem record labels solve.	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	not the market. you're a record label for having 100 singer-songrwiters, that'll make whatever shit, not for having 100mn customers who'll buy whatever you put out.	[01:20]
mircea_popescu	such strange.	[01:20]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell pilo_ I read the whole Yudo Harierzer thing	[01:22]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:22]
decimation	the music label's real 'problem solving' would be knowing how to push the right bellybuttons to force a song to be played in a large chunk of the existing radio stations/youtubes/ipods	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	aye.	[01:23]
mircea_popescu	more of a 90s thing, record label as master of payola.	[01:23]
BingoBoingo	"It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky." << Dude is harmless can't even kill the little girl without a troll	[01:24]
decimation	yes, the business model is failing. it still exists, but it is a victim of its own success in the sense that it has trained the masses to ignore radio	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	"“Transhuman Strategies” conference March 21 in Silicon Valley—- Tickets Limited! Posted: February 26, 2015	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? 0 comments"	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	this can't be a thiel thing can it ?	[01:24]
BingoBoingo	Almost has to be	[01:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: thiel plus wannebee panhandlers on his door	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	ah.	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	anyone going ? :D	[01:25]
decimation	does anyone here live in the bay area?	[01:25]
BingoBoingo	No I	[01:25]
asciilifeform	btw mr y was running sc4mf3r3nc3z before bitcoin	[01:25]
asciilifeform	for $maxint	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	"Venue: Prospect SIlicon Valley Categories: Brighter Brains, Transhumanism Tags: communications, strategic planning, strategy, SWOT"	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	SWOT!	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	maybe they slip up and built the transhuman bureaucracy, complete with transflipcharts.	[01:26]
asciilifeform	special weapons onanism team ?	[01:26]
asciilifeform	(swot)	[01:26]
mircea_popescu	"What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? How can these Transhuman ideas permeate the mainstream? Are there ways Transhumanism can assert itself in the political sphere? How can Transhumanist ideas and innovations create a better world now, for billions of people on Earth?"	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	ahaha this is such a delicious target.	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	say timmy... anything you could do with these two burnt matcsticks TO CREATE A BETTER ALPHA CENTAURY FOR MILLIONS OF STARS IN THE GALAXI ?!?!?	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	"The conference begins with a “Meet & Greet” session from 12:15 – 1:00 pm, followed by speakers from 1:00 – 5:00. After the conference, participants will be encouraged to continue the discussion at a nearby bar (location announced at the event). The cost to attend the mini-conferences is only $20; only $15 for students, seniors, and people who travel more than 50 miles to get there. Tickets on sale at EventBrit	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	e HERE." << asciilifeform i doubt about that maxint.	[01:29]
asciilifeform	that's an imitator	[01:29]
asciilifeform	speaking of the 'genuine article'	[01:29]
decimation	only $20? what kind of scammer only asks for one yuppie foodstamp?	[01:29]
asciilifeform	;;google singularity university	[01:29]
gribble	Singularity University \| Solving Humanity's Grand Challenges: ; So, What is SU? \| Singularity University: ; Graduate Studies Program \| Singularity University:	[01:29]
decimation	asciilifeform: did you read about the new fucktarded appleism - the USB type C port?	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	that's accredited ?	[01:30]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it isn't actually university-shaped	[01:30]
asciilifeform	more like reptilia's 'conference' thing	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	lolk	[01:30]
asciilifeform	decimation: aha, their dock connector	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	The Speaker List includes: Zoltan Istvan – 2016 US Presidential candidate of Transhumanist Party	[01:31]
decimation	yeah	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	fuck, i had no idea there's a transhumanist party.	[01:31]
decimation	apparently does 10 gpbs AND allows 100 watts of charge!	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	decimation you knew ?!	[01:31]
mircea_popescu	a nm.	[01:31]
asciilifeform	(apple released a machine which is entirely unusable without the dock gizmo)	[01:31]
decimation	later google et.al. jumped on the bandwagon	[01:31]
decimation	because it makes so much sense to have the same plug for your power port and your video signal	[01:31]
asciilifeform	and a retreat from the magnetic plug	[01:32]
asciilifeform	which (stolen from korean coffee pots) was the one good idea apple forced through the thick skulls of other vendors	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	i think the plan is to merge coaxial and power lines.	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	i gues tptb don't see fiber in the future of america.	[01:32]
decimation	magplug was a good idea for power	[01:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: power-over-lan is sop among large indoor installations of whatever	[01:33]
asciilifeform	i have it even here	[01:33]
decimation	What I fear is new malwarez installed on your monitor!	[01:33]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: on the other hand, data over mains cable is sop in eu	[01:34]
decimation	or your power supply. or whatever, because who the fuck knows what is going on in your uninspectible 10gbs bus	[01:34]
asciilifeform	works great to the nearest transformer booth (where you need an active amp)	[01:34]
decimation	data over mains cable is a terrible idea	[01:34]
asciilifeform	but even cheaper than 'brown fiber' (see earlier sewer article)	[01:34]
decimation	spams HF spectrum with nasty shit	[01:34]
asciilifeform	and hence doomed to happen	[01:34]
mircea_popescu	^	[01:34]
decimation	why is it so hard to run a fiber to a neighborhood data center	[01:35]
asciilifeform	decimation: digging rights	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	Speakers list : Maria Konovalenko & Mikhail Batin – Immortality Activists << http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/.a/6a01348002e89e970c01348542262a970c-pi	[01:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1DDWiSw )	[01:35]
mircea_popescu	"Hank Pellissier is the director of Brighter Brains Institute, and the producer of eight transhumanist conferences in 2013-2015."	[01:36]
mircea_popescu	i guess to the random eye this is === bitcoin	[01:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93250 @ 0.00030323 = 28.2762 BTC [+] {2}	[01:37]
asciilifeform	thiel (and possibly friends) seed it. the chumpatronium sustains.	[01:37]
decimation	asciilifeform: it's more than just digging rights. surely the majority of surban homeowners would be more than happy to make their own comcast if they could	[01:37]
asciilifeform	decimation: digging rights in throughfares.	[01:37]
asciilifeform	or what, proposing to connect the suburbanites to each other?	[01:37]
asciilifeform	works in ro where there were sentient lifeforms about, circa 1994 or when	[01:38]
asciilifeform	but usa? forget it	[01:38]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah exactly that. for a few thousand bucks each, it would be trival to make a small neighborhood isp of great quality	[01:38]
decimation	but the probability that a given set of 100 homes in the the us would be occupied by owners so enlightened..	[01:39]
asciilifeform	and of never having to traverse city land	[01:39]
asciilifeform	this is actually a problem in ukraine	[01:39]
asciilifeform	in odessa even	[01:39]
mircea_popescu	decimation this is exactly how ro internet worked, and the reason ro internet is today in the top 5 worldwide, with 4 azns : that pressure ten years ago	[01:39]
asciilifeform	where there is an eternal war between the electric and cable (internet) utils	[01:39]
mircea_popescu	and it cost 10s not 1000s of dollars	[01:39]
asciilifeform	like an actual war, with cut cables weekly	[01:39]
mircea_popescu	but i think alf has it : population of psychopaths.	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	it matters.	[01:40]
decimation	in the us, it is common for nearly all homes built after 1970 to be built upon land which is part of an 'hoa'	[01:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform amusingly, some state authority or other decided to cut cables. the city hall nearly caught fire as a result, and the plan was discontinuied.	[01:41]
decimation	when you buy a home on such land, you automatically agree to whatever fucktarded idea was popular in 1982	[01:41]
mircea_popescu	decimation no idea who'd build on land he didn't own, but hey.	[01:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: by that token scarcely anyone on u.s. coasts owns land	[01:42]
asciilifeform	it is virtually wholly encumbered	[01:42]
mircea_popescu	http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/blog/2010/06/the-blocking-point.html << check out this transhumanist project. "let's pretend like we're valuable and have skills and people should be queing on our door to give us moneys"	[01:43]
assbot	The Blocking Point - Maria Konovalenko ... ( http://bit.ly/198DnSh )	[01:43]
decimation	asciilifeform: even in middle america it's the same, on any newer home	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	quite entertaining.	[01:43]
asciilifeform	(not even speaking of taxation)	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform hey, i don't own there.	[01:43]
decimation	you would quite literally need to buy a plot of farmland in the middle of nowhere	[01:43]
decimation	or some ghetto shack	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that vinge dood thinks progress in biology does not depend on computers ?	[01:45]
mircea_popescu	nuts.	[01:45]
asciilifeform	check the date.	[01:45]
mircea_popescu	93 ? what of it ?	[01:46]
asciilifeform	the massive sequence alignment thing wasn't a going concern quite yet.	[01:46]
mircea_popescu	i thought he knew the future.	[01:47]
asciilifeform	the only american sf author who 'knew the future' was robert sheckley.	[01:47]
asciilifeform	or possibly philip dick.	[01:47]
asciilifeform	(saw as darker, more demented version of their own time, naturally)	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	accidentallyright.jpg	[01:48]
nubbins`	got the paranoia right anyway	[01:48]
*	BingoBoingo offers now that if any motherfucker named Dallas Cook is trying to dope me with malware I would advise stopping that felony.	[01:48]
mircea_popescu	anyway, you know those stories about how rich guy heard the paupers / shoeshine boys discuss stocks and bailed ?	[01:48]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: wai wat	[01:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: yes! but can't recall where	[01:48]
asciilifeform	ancient legend	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	"Progress in computer hardware has followed an amazingly steady curve in the last few decades [17]." << by now moore';s law is currency in trading for everyine, from usgavin to vince whoever.	[01:49]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[01:49]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I have no definiteive evidence, but I have obsrved trends	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	i am firmly persuaded that the wall's coming.	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	current computers are best computers, and fu humanity.	[01:49]
asciilifeform	clocked circuits are retarded	[01:49]
asciilifeform	(literally)	[01:49]
asciilifeform	and if you're building computers in the tens or hundreds rather than quajizillions quantities there is no reason not to use germanium, gallium arsenide, doped diamond, etc. chemistries	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	besides the point. here's mp's prediction : the computer that can be had for a one ounce of gold in 2025 will be inferior to the computer that can be had for an ounce of gold today, on computation measures.	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	because industrial infrastructure has been kept in new state by constant improvement.	[01:51]
decimation	mircea_popescu: you are betting against lithography?	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	once improvements go away, infrastructure starts to decay.	[01:51]
BingoBoingo	decimation: Lithograpy has limits	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	decimation litho is already dead, intel's cancelling narrower process etc.	[01:51]
asciilifeform	^ if industrial collapse carries on, it will be difficult to imagine a computer of any description being constructed in 2025 other than out of 'junkyard wars' pieces	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform unrelated, that. obv it'd be of chinese make in any case.	[01:51]
decimation	I thought they were already on the path for 10 nm	[01:52]
mircea_popescu	look into it.	[01:52]
mircea_popescu	they were onthe path to, decided not to follow it.	[01:52]
mircea_popescu	10nm is maybe not really happening.	[01:52]
asciilifeform	might expensive toy just to keep microshit alive another 2 yrs	[01:52]
asciilifeform	*mighty	[01:52]
mircea_popescu	and yes alf's right, the end of moore is also the end of ms, apple etc.	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	once people start having to optimize, the doocracies are dead.	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	kinda why poettering's in such a hurry, i guess.	[01:53]
BingoBoingo	Shame Sun's already dead	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	as if old code somehow gets forgotten or something, dunno.	[01:53]
asciilifeform	usg pours $maxint into optical logic, but nothing is publicly known re: what, if anything, ever came of it	[01:53]
asciilifeform	not for desktops of idiot tetris-playing dilberts, no	[01:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform right. only failure can be kept from the public knowledge.	[01:54]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: The price of old RISC beasts already marches upwards	[01:54]
asciilifeform	any crowned head who has half a brain is sponsoring optical hasher.	[01:54]
decimation	http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/02/intel-forges-ahead-to-10nm-will-move-away-from-silicon-at-7nm/ < seems like they are still on path for 10 nm	[01:55]
assbot	Intel forges ahead to 10nm, will move away from silicon at 7nm \| Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDc94b )	[01:55]
decimation	sounds like they are considering ascii's iii-v chemistry for 7nm	[01:56]
asciilifeform	intel surrendered to chumpification of the most abject kind, sells severely underclocked dies which temporarily 'turbo' up	[01:56]
asciilifeform	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/03/bronx-man-confesses-to-laser-pointer-incident-after-cops-arrest-his-housemate << mega-lol yet again	[01:57]
assbot	Bronx man confesses to laser pointer incident after cops arrest his housemate \| Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDcIL2 )	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	decimation from what i recall reading on teh topic, the 14nm process was a total debacle and 10nm is a theory only thing.	[01:59]
*	BingoBoingo is overflowing with Wintel hate atm	[01:59]
BingoBoingo	decimation from what i recall reading on teh topic, the 14nm process was a total debacle and 10nm is a theory only thing << This	[01:59]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo: the basic mechanics here: wintel racket was powered, like many other similar idiocies, by the american 'fat'	[02:00]
asciilifeform	which is to say, it is not enough to con chumps, they must also have fat to be rendered for	[02:00]
asciilifeform	then they can go off to the shops and buy 'windows 95' because the cardboard waving hand says to (actual thing, saw alive, in '95)	[02:00]
asciilifeform	but the blow their fat disposable income on resulting new computer	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	decimation look at it this way : 14nm was demonstrated in memories cca 2005, intel shipped it in 2015.	[02:00]
asciilifeform	without which the idiot crud won't boot	[02:01]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: And then you find old folks on the family tree to which you owe defference	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	10nm was demonstrated... cca 2009 ?	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	it's not happening.	[02:01]
asciilifeform	without fat - nothing to power the engine	[02:01]
decimation	well, it certainly seems that we are at the edge of what silicon can yield	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	economically.	[02:01]
asciilifeform	the folks who are supposed to be buying new computer on microshit's say-so are short a benjie or two for rent this month	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	there's that big bitch in there. ~economically~. the cost for 10nm is alreadyu not covered by the density benefits	[02:02]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: outside of a handful of 'naggums' - it was -never- justified	[02:02]
asciilifeform	virtually all computer users got vastly more actual 'bang for buck' in 1992 than today	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	heh. think about bitcoin on pc xt	[02:03]
asciilifeform	not so far-fetched to picture it on pent1	[02:03]
decimation	asciilifeform: yes, but not in terms of raw flops, when massaged properly	[02:03]
asciilifeform	we have essentially that on pogo	[02:03]
decimation	there's little doubt that man's ability to create tiny features on silicon has far outpaced his ability to do something useful with them	[02:04]
asciilifeform	while being one of the really not so many people who found it properly useful, i will still say that ultimately it was a side effect of a mega-scam	[02:05]
decimation	asciilifeform: what's 'it'? the pursuit of small features?	[02:05]
brendafdez	it was a side effect of a mega-scam << ?	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	point being, the trillions needed for 10nm and beyond aren't forthcoming and that's the end of this run.	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	which was a great run, a point that'll be made obvious by the anger of all the hanger-ons once itstops	[02:06]
decimation	whether 10nm is the stopping point or not, I agree that this is the ultimate end. exponentially increasing fab costs cannot abide forever	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	right.	[02:07]
asciilifeform	decimation: what's 'it' << the difference in cpu available to luser today vs. '92	[02:08]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I think there's some truth to that - ultimately the vast majority of computer-purchasing money is 'dumb money'	[02:09]
asciilifeform	not merely this, but driven to be spent entirely by microshit's idiot 'operating system pr0gr3ss'	[02:09]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[08:08]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[08:08]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[08:08]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[08:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36800 @ 0.00030524 = 11.2328 BTC [+]	[08:08]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	trinque nice.	[08:09]
davout	ohai mircea_popescu	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	heya	[08:15]
*	assbot removes voice from deedbot-	[08:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00030525 = 19.4139 BTC [+] {2}	[08:16]
mircea_popescu	A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: webmaster@extropy.org	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	aww.	[08:17]
*	DigitalDayTrader (~SparkMast@cpe-104-34-30-248.socal.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	!up DigitalDayTrader	[08:22]
-assbot-	You voiced DigitalDayTrader for 30 minutes.	[08:22]
*	assbot gives voice to DigitalDayTrader	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	with all this digitality of modernity, it turns out the postwar mobsters were eerily before their time.	[08:23]
mircea_popescu	"give us the money or we're taking your digits!"	[08:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.0003053 = 2.1829 BTC [+]	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059532 << it is ?	[08:29]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 05:13:40; asciilifeform: the helicopter is the symbol of statal power against the peon schmuck	[08:29]
mircea_popescu	maybe in vietnam.	[08:29]
davout	i'd tend to agree with asciilifeform, what are all these US police helicopter-chase shows for if not for clearly asserting that "there's nowhere to run" ?	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059539 << same's said of sailing. meanwhile most people sailing or flying independently are actually poor, mostly on account of rich people not wanting to take that sort of risk.	[08:30]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 05:15:29; asciilifeform: but soon it was clear even to imbeciles that flying was an aristocrat's (or totalitarian thug enforcer's...) game.	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	davout but then again, they don't have to be FOR something. they may well just be BECAUSE of something, that something being "we got a helicopter"	[08:31]
davout	flying is pretty awesome :D	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	that in turn being because helicopters exist in the first place.	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	im sure driving a car is pretty awesome to fish, and for the same reason : "mamma mia if i crash this tank im fucked"	[08:31]
davout	does anyone know that pilot joke? "how do you know someone's a pilot?"	[08:31]
mircea_popescu	how ?	[08:32]
davout	he'll tell you	[08:32]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[08:32]
mircea_popescu	anyway, last fucking job you want in a conflict zone is flying the helicopters.	[08:32]
mircea_popescu	only job to score consistently under tradecraft for security.	[08:33]
cazalla	too many people were all "lulz, i lazered the pilot" here in australia so anything over 1mw.. banned	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	... 1 mw ?!	[08:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60981 @ 0.0003053 = 18.6175 BTC [+]	[08:35]
mircea_popescu	oh oh mW not MW	[08:35]
cazalla	ya sorry, milliwatt	[08:35]
mircea_popescu	i was like omfg australia, large spiders, larger lasers.	[08:35]
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cazalla	people were lulz lazering athletes at games too	[08:36]
davout	lelz, lasering pilots is so fucking retarded	[08:36]
cazalla	davout, yeah.. they coined it "lazer attacks"	[08:36]
cazalla	example http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/citys-worst-laser-attacks-on-aircraft/2008/03/29/1206207485440.html	[08:36]
assbot	City's worst laser attacks on aircraft - Travel - smh.com.au ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjGJnj )	[08:36]
davout	it's like everyone in the sky gets pissed at you, while the laserer conveniently gives a massive arrow pointing to his sorry ass	[08:37]
mircea_popescu	does calling it "attacks" make it moar important ?	[08:37]
davout	it is pretty dangerous	[08:37]
cazalla	everyone had these fucking things circa 2008, all from dx.com	[08:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63150 @ 0.00029536 = 18.652 BTC [-]	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	"These gutless and cowardly attacks have to be stopped," he said. "I am preparing a proposal to cabinet to consider making these items a prohibited weapon."	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	davout it is ?	[08:38]
davout	just like retards flying drones in restricted airspace are dangerous as well	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	the drones i can actually see.	[08:38]
cazalla	mircea_popescu, the pollie that said that got busted for gay sex like a year later, clearly didn't want to play ball anymore (or did)	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	they're sort-of like turkeys, which have caused problems in the past, so planes have been shielded against them, so it no longer matters.	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	so they don't actually do anything, so nevermind.	[08:39]
davout	mircea_popescu: i hang around a bit on /r/flying, also watched a few vids of ATPs being lasered and yes, it does look pretty dangerous	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	not the original statement hm ?	[08:39]
chetty	humans, more and more clever ways to commit mayhem on each other.	[08:39]
davout	and it's not like you'll get lasered at high altitudes with the PA on and your cock in some flight attendant's mouth, you'll get lasered when approaching	[08:40]
mircea_popescu	davout and your windows won't protect you, because... antiglare's not been invented.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	what do they do in the sun ?	[08:41]
davout	it will illuminate the cockpit, blind you, will take your mind off of your checklist	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	drop down those flaps like they have in the car ?	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	it won't fucking blind you.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu	it will iluminate the cockpit less than what fucking police lights do.	[08:41]
davout	my cessna has these flaps you speak of :D	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	what next, this is a legitimate car crash reason ? "police lights illuminated my cockpit your honor. let the police dept pay."	[08:42]
cazalla	damn, that is not a half bad idea	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	yw.	[08:42]
fluffypony	lol	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	"omaigawd stuffwas illuminated, i totally lost my trtain of thought. o look, unicorns!!1"	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	anyway, all this beating around the bush. here's to making the penis a dangerous weapon.	[08:43]
cazalla	the trajectory of the sun combined with the police lights and lazer mounted drone caused me to run down mr gavin by accident	[08:43]
davout	you don't want to miss shit on your checklist	[08:44]
mircea_popescu	no, you don't. so don't miss shit on your fucking checklist.	[08:44]
*	cazalla points green lazer at davout.. lol lazered	[08:44]
mircea_popescu	now, mind you, i'm the first to agree the lasers are fucking annyoing and the idiots wielding them need better hobbies.	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	but those facts don't make derpy lasers "weapons" and etc etc.	[08:45]
davout	"Pilots unanimously say that the effect of a laser-pen's beam in the cockpit is very similar to the effect of a car's high-beam headlights at a short distance -- it blinds you. The decision-making time before a landing is only 10 critical seconds, pilots say -- and these moments are not to fight green laser beams, but to make critically important decisions. "	[08:45]
davout	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI7Qq1mYQlI	[08:45]
assbot	'Laser attack' caught on tape: View from plane cockpit - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjH1dT )	[08:45]
davout	not saying that this is a good reason to forbid lasers, i'm saying they can be pretty dangerous	[08:47]
mircea_popescu	davout but that's not the cockpit, that's the cam.	[08:47]
cazalla	the australian law, at least as i see it, was more them saying, ok you've had your fun but no more of this please	[08:47]
mircea_popescu	and if maximally zoomed (looks about 16x) it very briefly shines.	[08:47]
davout	if that's the effect on the cam, it's not a complete stretch to say that you can believe pilots when they say it's blinding	[08:47]
mircea_popescu	pretty much exactly consistent with what i[ve been saying last time we did this laser thing	[08:48]
davout	and you have a larger view later on the video	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	well if you've ever used cams, it actually is, yes.	[08:48]
Adlai	you could achieve a similar effect against drivers with a cheap camera + servos aiming it... let's ban all electronics!	[08:48]
davout	it's unclear to me why pilots would make that up	[08:48]
Adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2015#1034826 << problem, blockchain on disk depends on the order in which it saw those 'orphans'	[08:48]
assbot	Logged on 26-02-2015 21:23:55; asciilifeform: if ends up with bitwise identical blockchain on disk (minus time data) then quite likely correct.	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	davout pilots did not make anything up. they say it's fucking annoying. im sure it is.	[08:48]
davout	instead of putting their shades on and shrugging it off	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	then bureaucrat drones are going on about weapons and whatnot, with nary a clue about anything but what could be persuasively argued to a mostly clueless public.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	this is fine as far as the system goes, it's own "democratic" logic, et all.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	but it's still ridoinculous.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	davout you ever been with a group of professionals ?	[08:49]
davout	professionals in what field? aeronautics?	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	when met with any novel thing, the bulk will shrug and carry on, the 19% marginals will yak about it,	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	because it distracts from a discussion about how they suck, and people should fire them	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	in any fucking field.	[08:50]
cazalla	ima firen mah lazer	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	Adlai i suppose he meant bitwise identical star, to be translated as, same txn	[08:51]
Adlai	hm?	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	"if ends up with bitwise identical* blockchain"	[08:51]
davout	i think you underestimate the danger of having a laser pointed at you when you're doing an approach	[08:52]
Adlai	what [i think] you want is identical answers to whether a transaction is valid	[08:52]
mircea_popescu	davout that may be true.	[08:52]
mircea_popescu	Adlai you want the same exact set of transactions to have been accepted.	[08:52]
*	assbot removes voice from DigitalDayTrader	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	davout but it turns out, stuff like aegis cruisers don't have lasers installed to blind enemy pilots, dropped chaff isn't tiny shining laser pointers etc.	[08:54]
mircea_popescu	as far as weaponry goes, let's look at you know, weaponry.	[08:54]
davout	that's kind of like saying "if banana peels are dangerous, why don't the US marines carry them around" :D	[08:55]
Adlai	why aren't the terrorists yelling fire in crowded theatresL	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	the discussion wasn't if this is annoying or not, but whether the drone droning about weapons had a point. at least in my head.	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	wouldja say banana peels are weapons or something ?	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, suppose some asshole runs around throwing banana peels right before people. and he gets busted for "assault with a dangerous weapon".	[08:56]
davout	they can be deadly if strategically placed	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	you gonna make that charge stick ?	[08:56]
davout	naaah	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	good cause there's all sorts of instructional videos on how to defend yourself.	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w	[08:57]
assbot	Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjHo8d )	[08:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89900 @ 0.00030584 = 27.495 BTC [+] {2}	[08:57]
davout	look, i'm not arguing that because they are annoying and potentially dangerous to aircrafts that gives a justification to anyone to forbid them, simply stating that retards will be retards, and annoy pilots in a sensitive flight phase	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i suppose the difference between "this is slightly annoying' and "this is terrorism" has long been lost.	[08:58]
Adlai	so maybe, lobbyists looking for lobbies to lob should try to get all aircraft windows tinted	[08:58]
davout	mircea_popescu: sure	[08:58]
davout	few days ago in france: "terrorism is bad, let's lower the limit for cash payments from 3000 to 1000€"	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	no but seriously, someone could use 3k euros to buy a proper rifle + bullets.	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	1k euros not enough for this.	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	course inflation'd have naturally fixed that over time.	[09:00]
mircea_popescu	(anyone notice how those "limits" are not yearly indexed, like govt pensions ?)	[09:00]
davout	"thank you for this kalashnikov, may i have my receipt"	[09:00]
mircea_popescu	davout are you intimating the bureaucracy's ineffective because it lives in its own world anyway ?	[09:00]
cazalla	they're trying to push through mandatory sentencing for weapons here down under.. 5 years for trafficking hand guns etc	[09:00]
mircea_popescu	fucking french terrorists.	[09:01]
mircea_popescu	cazalla "mandatory sentencing" is the most ridiculous perversion of justice ever.	[09:01]
mircea_popescu	essentially stalin's administrative powers thing.	[09:01]
cazalla	someone is breaking into my home.. best i call the police to come in 10m time because law does not permit me to own a shot gun to blast the cunt in seconds	[09:01]
davout	cazalla: BLAST IT WITH PISS	[09:01]
cazalla	davout, not even mine is big enough to kill loaded with booze	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	cazalla why not use lasers ?	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	now i understand finally the crazy shit stick on all sides of rifle bit.	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	all those tactical lights ARE REALLY WEAPONS	[09:03]
davout	mircea_popescu: to be honest, a strategically banana peel might be more effective in this particular case	[09:03]
davout	*placed	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	lol	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	;;google guy that crossed atlantic in a barrel died in new york, slipping on banana peel	[09:03]
gribble	Banana split: Worker peels back skin to find two fruits in one \| Daily ...: ; The appeal of peel: The surprising ways fruit and veg skins can work ...: ; (1 more message)	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	^ real event.	[09:03]
cazalla	lazer illegal, plastic knife illegal (if used as weapon), baseball bat also illegal if kept in bedroom because no legitimate reason to keep it there, must fetch from car and come back to bedroom to beat off attacker	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	cazalla doesn't sound like much of a country does it ?	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck "not much reason to keep it there". what fucking reason does uninvited third party have to be in your bedroom ?	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	let's start with that.	[09:04]
cazalla	not "not much reason" but no reason, why would a law abiding citizen keep his sporting equipment under the bed? surely it is in garage with the rest of the foosballs etc	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	because the wife's a stretcher ?	[09:05]
davout	cazalla: mebbe it's for butseks	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	seriously, nobody run the endless reels of "woman fucks baseball bat" for the court on that one ?	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	talk about dropping the ball.	[09:05]
cazalla	i could've claimed so with the ex gf but not this woman	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	so she's training for it.	[09:06]
davout	"she's starting by getting used to the bat's presence your honor"	[09:06]
cazalla	ex could've taken 2 tbh	[09:06]
cazalla	she was a champ like that	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	what, one in butt one in cunt, then walk on them ?	[09:08]
mircea_popescu	that'd be an act.	[09:08]
cazalla	nah 2 in cunt, guess 1 in the ass too	[09:08]
cazalla	damn, she was the best lay but would've made for a shitty mother	[09:08]
mircea_popescu	this is why one needs pairs.	[09:08]
cazalla	dependent on bitcoin, goes up enough, i have a place or two for such women	[09:09]
cazalla	as it is atm, no can do	[09:09]
mircea_popescu	well what's the rush.	[09:09]
mircea_popescu	gotta be unable to get it up, first.	[09:10]
cazalla	well, isnt any atm	[09:10]
mircea_popescu	then you can make comments to them about their black boyfriends and we can ostracize you and take your stadium away.	[09:10]
davout	hahaha	[09:10]
mircea_popescu	cazalla how do you know the shitty mother bit btw ?	[09:10]
mircea_popescu	afaik reformed whores make the best mothers.	[09:10]
cazalla	mircea_popescu, because she fucked around with shit like tramadol	[09:11]
mircea_popescu	...	[09:11]
cazalla	she was fucking useless for anything else but sex	[09:11]
mircea_popescu	wait. how do you fuck around with antipyretics ?!	[09:11]
cazalla	a kid would be lucky to get 1 meal a day with such a woman	[09:11]
mircea_popescu	o wait, that's the opioid huh.	[09:11]
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cazalla	i dunno, never tried it, she use to steal it from work place	[09:12]
mircea_popescu	well, reformed was in there for a reason.	[09:13]
cazalla	well i wouldn't know seeing i didn't stick around to find out	[09:13]
cazalla	i thought the naive virginal conservative wife would make for the best mother	[09:13]
cazalla	i made my bed, so now i sleep in it	[09:13]
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mircea_popescu	conservatives don't make very good parents for that reason. kinda why nature put all the poop in the process, make sure it gets a fair shot.	[09:14]
cazalla	all the 10 inched black boyfriends in the world wouldn't make any difference for some types of women anyway	[09:14]
mircea_popescu	is 10 inches big or small these days ?	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	i've not been following the internet conversation.	[09:15]
cazalla	seems to be the average, but i dunno	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	average in what, horses ?	[09:16]
cazalla	i have nfi, too much to drink	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059635 << which is the manual ?	[09:18]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 05:46:33; trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual	[09:18]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059683 << eh get out srsly. it doesn't get any more random and unintentional than that.	[09:23]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 06:06:35; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The worst part is I know this had to have been targetted. Someone had to spend a non-trivial amount of time. I suspect a partcular name and yet...	[09:23]
cazalla	i tried to convince him of such in PM yet.. he convinced me drinking was a good idea (ok not really, not like i need much encouragement)	[09:25]
mircea_popescu	in other news, derpy mcsweater-glass and his two nude friends : http://40.media.tumblr.com/c3b9d92eacede7d95def9d6ee99f578b/tumblr_myjsgrcYzT1rjqog4o1_1280.jpg	[09:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1bjIocv )	[09:25]
mircea_popescu	cazalla lol you two need to stop drinking and buy coins from the proceeds.	[09:26]
mircea_popescu	end up richest dudes in b-a.	[09:27]
cazalla	i've prob pissed away 2-3k the past 12-18 months on booze	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	ah, nm, that's not so bad	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	i think i spent about the same.	[09:28]
cazalla	could be more, could be less, just a guestimate	[09:28]
cazalla	let's see	[09:29]
Adlai	2-3k << ozd?	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	five bucks a day, that's like what, a drink.	[09:30]
cazalla	$60x78=4680 so sorta in range	[09:30]
mircea_popescu	you're supposed to drink that much just to keep the shit from migrating to your head.	[09:30]
cazalla	acutally i quit for years, sober as a judge	[09:30]
mircea_popescu	cazalla you ever seen "some came running" ?	[09:31]
cazalla	of course, i would not be rotting away where i will be monday if i remained sober lol	[09:31]
cazalla	nope	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	dean martin is this total drunk, and at some point he says to sinatra	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	"you know ever since you quit drinking you've been insufferable ?!"	[09:32]
cazalla	i prolly was, only took it up again a month or so before missus had baby	[09:33]
cazalla	in fact, i would harp on to my brother, who i lived with at the time, that he needed to quit drinking	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	did he ?	[09:34]
cazalla	not sure tbh, we didn't speak for a few years, only recently began talking again	[09:34]
cazalla	i assume he drinks though given he's back at the parents and god knows they drink	[09:34]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059745 << ru chicks will take over the world.	[09:35]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 06:30:59; brendafdez: There I fell in love with a Russian girl, it was in 2008, it was awesome that we'd both speak with each other in a language that was foreign for both, felt special, like being in bitcoin these days (?	[09:35]
cazalla	geei hope not, can't say ruski women do it for me	[09:36]
cazalla	even the bond goldeneye girls were meh	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	ever had one ?	[09:36]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[09:36]
cazalla	well no, but	[09:37]
cazalla	i did work with a short haired ruski chick	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	well don't knock it fore you've... uh. you know.	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059746 << you know that's the wrong way to go about the wife business. if you just want a cheap one the cheapest wife you could ever get is no wife at all.	[09:37]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 06:32:38; *: BingoBoingo kinda wants to it the phils before .ar to pick up a cheap wife	[09:37]
cazalla	mircea_popescu, not many down under, not like i'll ever leave	[09:39]
cazalla	so unless they come here..	[09:39]
mircea_popescu	brendafdez: The fact that people here see the US as the land of freedom really boggles the mind.<< they believe teh movies.	[09:39]
cazalla	plenty of chinese	[09:39]
mircea_popescu	cazalla used to know this chick, eventualy gave up teh life married some guy went to melbourne	[09:39]
mircea_popescu	im sure there's plenty in ozland.	[09:39]
cazalla	melbourne sucks	[09:40]
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cazalla	not even sure why pete would waste his time coming to this shit hole	[09:40]
mircea_popescu	most everyone lives there neh ?	[09:40]
cazalla	there is nothing redeeming about it at all	[09:40]
cazalla	mircea_popescu, and sydney, yeah	[09:40]
cazalla	both are shit	[09:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059755 << will = liebe ?	[09:41]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 06:37:57; trinque: ICH WILL DICH	[09:41]
mircea_popescu	or wtf's that suppost to be	[09:41]
cazalla	they tear down anything old and replace it with modern architecture, and what they can't pull down completely, they subert the old by merging the new into it	[09:41]
cazalla	anyway, tasmania is best australia	[09:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00030614 = 23.5116 BTC [+] {2}	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	lmao this log. im bashing this shit	[09:43]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[09:43]
nubbins`	http://www.lasersafetyfacts.com/resources/Laser-hazard-distance-chart.pdf	[09:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJ0Pa )	[09:43]
nubbins`	TIL mp doesn't think lazers in yr eyes are bad ;/	[09:43]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxDHW2MvBw	[09:44]
assbot	Seinfeld — Puerto Rican Day: The Apartment (HD) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJ5Co )	[09:44]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu:for that matter, suppose some asshole runs around throwing banana peels right before people. and he gets busted for "assault with a dangerous weapon". <<< now you're just shoehorning	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	that's a thing ?	[09:46]
nubbins`	sure is	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	"Shoehorning is a ploy used by psychics, or religious apologetic or other charlatans, as a way to make it sound like their prophecies or those of earlier prophets had come true. "	[09:47]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[09:47]
mircea_popescu	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoehorning << notwithstanding the bad grammar, that's one of the more representative wikipedia articles i dare say.	[09:48]
assbot	Shoehorning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJfK8 )	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` anyway, why ?	[09:48]
nubbins`	idk about wikitardia definition, but you're just being pedantic 8)	[09:49]
nubbins`	suppose the asshole leaves a banana peel at the top of the stairs	[09:49]
nubbins`	"wasn't a weapon, whatcha gonna do"	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[09:49]
mircea_popescu	what, you expect the law to intervene ?	[09:49]
nubbins`	before the fact? c'est impossible	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	before or after,	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	or in the commerce of bannanas.	[09:50]
nubbins`	isn't this much less circuitous than the original discussion 8)	[09:51]
nubbins`	but i guess you're more of a journey guy than a destination guy, hey	[09:51]
mircea_popescu	well i dunno lol. i tend to follow.	[09:51]
nubbins`	unrelated, i just clued into the mad hatter's hat from TTLG	[09:52]
nubbins`	http://www.gutenberg.org/files/114/114-h/images/alice38a.gif	[09:52]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1bjJmp8 )	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	;;ud ttlg	[09:52]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=through+the+looking+glass \| Similar to the twilight zone, where nothing is quite what it seems. In Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass book, it can mean clocks that work...	[09:52]
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nubbins`	last 33 years: "why does his hat say 10/6?"	[09:53]
nubbins`	today: "wat, it says 'in this style' above it? o"	[09:53]
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mircea_popescu	it's 10 shillings and 6pence.	[09:54]
nubbins`	nod	[09:54]
nubbins`	i did not have this knowledge last i read it ;/	[09:54]
mircea_popescu	so you figurted out british coin notations from "in this style" ?	[09:55]
nubbins`	stumbled across £sd notation a couple months ago	[09:56]
nubbins`	and today, stumbled across the mad hatter again	[09:56]
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nubbins`	!up cazalla	[09:56]
*	assbot gives voice to cazalla	[09:56]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu understand that this is akin to discovering jam is made from berries	[09:57]
cazalla	ty nubbins` fucking power out and i'm too drunk/tired to ferry shit back and forth over usb	[09:57]
nubbins`	i'm floored here	[09:57]
nubbins`	anyway bbl COSTCO	[09:57]
cazalla	is that where you get bulk corn sizzurp? (they got costco's here now)	[09:58]
cazalla	in fact, they have a costco just a few streets away from here, not that i've been.. pay for membership? fuck that, costco drastically underestimates australian refusal to pay for membershits	[09:59]
mircea_popescu	the romanian bulk supplier (metro) just wants you to have a company.	[10:00]
nubbins`	bulk vanilla extract too	[10:00]
nubbins`	srsly, 1L for the same price as the little tiny bottles the groc store sells	[10:00]
mircea_popescu	no wait, wrong one. selgros.	[10:01]
nubbins`	cazalla if you shop at costco ~3-4 times in a year, you're ahead	[10:01]
cazalla	nubbins`, doubt they sell what i buy	[10:01]
*	nubbins` shrugs	[10:01]
nubbins`	you don't buy food?	[10:01]
cazalla	of course i do	[10:01]
mircea_popescu	cazalla it's improbable. generally wholesalers carry everything everyone else carries + more + they sell it cheaper + they deliver.	[10:02]
cazalla	sure, if you don't mind eating shit shipped in from china	[10:02]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[10:02]
cazalla	mm tasty bleached ass garlic, make it nice and white like snow white herself	[10:02]
mircea_popescu	well it's not for produce, yo.	[10:03]
cazalla	then wtf would u buy from a place like costco?	[10:03]
mircea_popescu	well costco i never used, but in general cash & carry is where you buy a whole round cheese, that's actually grana padano etc.	[10:04]
nubbins`	costco actually sells top quality produce	[10:04]
cazalla	i get my meet/veg/fruit from local who supposedly provides australian grown produce (i am not so naive to believe that some scheming fuckers didn't figure out they could import shit from china and just label it grown in australia but what can you do)	[10:05]
nubbins`	best meat shop in the city too	[10:05]
nubbins`	anyway bbl	[10:05]
mircea_popescu	cazalla ok, meat comes from butcher, produce from grocer. these you don't buy at the warehouse, as there's really no need to warehouse them. but what about everything else ?	[10:05]
cazalla	for other speciality shit, i use farmhousedirect.com.au	[10:05]
mircea_popescu	the stuff that's usually called "colonials" ? the stuff that has to be impoirted 5000 miles away ?	[10:06]
cazalla	like what? give an example	[10:06]
mircea_popescu	so they carry filippo berio olive oil ?	[10:06]
cazalla	i use australian grown olive oil and macadamia oil	[10:06]
mircea_popescu	rio mare salmon paste ?	[10:06]
cazalla	we got salmon growing down tasmania	[10:07]
chetty	L&P	[10:07]
cazalla	farmed, but still	[10:07]
mircea_popescu	a whole range of french (president ?) and italian cheeses ?	[10:07]
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cazalla	got the wog deli en masse	[10:07]
danielpbarron	height=288329 vs height=213141	[10:07]
mircea_popescu	cazalla well then you don't need it.	[10:08]
cazalla	i can't imagine for a second that even if costco had this sorta food down under, that it would actually be cheaper or better quality	[10:08]
mircea_popescu	this is exactly the sort of doubt fit for an experiment.	[10:09]
mircea_popescu	i used your deli model in the us, and the cash & carry in ro. it all depends on the place really.	[10:09]
cazalla	then they can pay me to experiement	[10:09]
cazalla	the only people i see waddling into the costco here at fat asses	[10:10]
cazalla	and they sure as fuck are not spending good money on good food	[10:10]
mircea_popescu	that's not a bad heuristic.	[10:10]
mircea_popescu	"shop for food where people who look like you want to look shop for food"	[10:10]
cazalla	i show you last weeks order	[10:11]
cazalla	and then you fkn tell me if u get this shit at costco	[10:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.0003062 = 14.1158 BTC [+] {2}	[10:11]
mircea_popescu	cat's got a thread! http://41.media.tumblr.com/7fc849c6bbc1b7bac3f2c13871445b8e/tumblr_mmap4wrUGR1r2x6jpo1_1280.jpg	[10:11]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1bjKk4M )	[10:11]
mircea_popescu	cazalla i have nfi what costco carries.	[10:12]
chetty	ever been to a costco MP?	[10:12]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[10:13]
mircea_popescu	i dun actually recall.	[10:13]
cazalla	that usually means yes in my experience	[10:13]
cazalla	my missus tries the same shit.. oh i can't remember	[10:13]
chetty	hahah well its kaufland X3	[10:13]
cazalla	pls suck my dick costco and get the fuck out of my country with your made in china shit http://imgur.com/GgNi88n,twFcl5s,ABxl80G,BAl6CMj,xl80E2E	[10:14]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/199i7Mj )	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	chetty i imagine so.	[10:14]
mircea_popescu	cazalla omfg what is this, the sin of going into places ?	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	i don't recall if i ever had macadamia oil or not, either.	[10:15]
mircea_popescu	i guess i'll have to try this now.	[10:15]
cazalla	it's good shit	[10:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16941 @ 0.00030091 = 5.0977 BTC [-]	[10:18]
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cazalla	the nuts are very creamy, and the oil is great for frying anything that is crumbed, like chicken	[10:21]
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mircea_popescu	i don't do so much frying myself.	[10:23]
cazalla	fair enough, but i fry the fuck out of everything	[10:25]
cazalla	well not reary but i am partial to crumbed chicken fried the fuck out	[10:26]
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Adlai	!up cazalla	[10:27]
*	assbot gives voice to cazalla	[10:27]
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danielpbarron	!up bhcoins this is you? -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=794678.msg8948683#msg8948683	[10:37]
assbot	[CLOSED] bhCoins Serie 3 0.1 BTC denominated physical Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/199jI4K )	[10:37]
*	assbot gives voice to bhcoins	[10:37]
chetty	highway robbery I tell ya, spen 83 pesos at the grocery	[10:38]
danielpbarron	most of my expenses are for food	[10:38]
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mircea_popescu	"Why are the coins dated 2013 :/ because we designed and minted them last year, but we could assemble them last month.."	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	how do you assemble coins ?!	[10:41]
danielpbarron	there's a newer model i just found, but w/e	[10:41]
danielpbarron	"If you want to resell them, either include a hologram so that the buyer can generate a new private key or just don't assemble the coin." << what on earth is the point then?	[10:44]
cazalla	anyway going to bed, but i request la serenissima bequeath me the state of Tasmania so as to use it to grow the best shit	[10:44]
mircea_popescu	enjoy c man	[10:45]
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danielpbarron	!up Bagels7	[11:04]
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davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060168 <<< president is french. it's shit though. would probably even be legal in uslandia	[11:05]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 13:02:49; mircea_popescu: a whole range of french (president ?) and italian cheeses ?	[11:05]
mircea_popescu	davout sorta minimum level of camembert i can live with.	[11:07]
davout	fair enough	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	but im going to forcefeed you "industria argentina" camembert just to make this point.	[11:07]
davout	tbh, what's the most important with camembert, is to not eat too early when it's not "made"	[11:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122814 @ 0.00030152 = 37.0309 BTC [+] {2}	[11:08]
davout	obviously it doesn't go in the fridge either	[11:08]
mats	danielpbarron: do a public service and tell those people holos can be beaten	[11:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98686 @ 0.00029524 = 29.1361 BTC [-] {2}	[11:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00030622 = 4.9914 BTC [+]	[11:11]
danielpbarron	it doesn't sound like anyone is using those things for more than a novelty; they aren't even funding the things for fear of depreciating value	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile over at decadence camp, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhxrh6pprt1qbujxso1_1280.jpg	[11:13]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/199mZB0 )	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	davout also helps if it's not made out of tyres.	[11:14]
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pete_dushenski	top o' the mornin' !	[11:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00029327 = 22.2299 BTC [-] {2}	[11:22]
pete_dushenski	cazalla: not even sure why pete would waste his time coming to this shit hole << being a tourist =! being a resident	[11:25]
pete_dushenski	despite the crazy minimum wage and resulting cost of food, australia is perfectly enjoyable place to visit for a few weeks.	[11:26]
pete_dushenski	beautiful architecture, wildlife galore	[11:27]
pete_dushenski	by the standards of la serenissima, most everywhere is full of stupidheads derping about with delusions of self-importance	[11:28]
pete_dushenski	australia isn't markedly worse than canada and in many ways preferable.	[11:29]
pete_dushenski	cazalla: your opa could've come here just as well and you wouldn't have been necessarily better off	[11:30]
pete_dushenski	yet by the measures of most of the world, this is still 'the land of milk and honey'	[11:30]
pete_dushenski	if one ends up here, today, wherever they're from was a successful stepping stone.	[11:31]
pete_dushenski	and couldn't have been otherwise.	[11:32]
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pete_dushenski	http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/20/the-straw-that-broke-twitters-back/	[11:38]
assbot	The straw that broke Twitter’s back. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/199pdAs )	[11:38]
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thestringpuller	oh a pete_dushenski	[11:39]
*	thestringpuller refreshes contravex	[11:39]
pete_dushenski	heya dude	[11:39]
pete_dushenski	^tis right there for ya	[11:40]
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pete_dushenski	me, saying sayonara to social media	[11:40]
*	kakobrekla just returned from his fiat bank - what a terrible experience.	[11:40]
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pete_dushenski	kakobrekla: ikr!	[11:41]
pete_dushenski	went with a friend who wanted 6 months of statements from her pc	[11:41]
pete_dushenski	because of course, they weren't available online	[11:41]
mircea_popescu	!up FrankU	[11:42]
-assbot-	You voiced FrankU for 30 minutes.	[11:42]
*	assbot gives voice to FrankU	[11:42]
pete_dushenski	so at the branch, they charge her $xx and then tell her that the statements can't be printed out then and there and have to go to another city for review, then they'll be shipped to the branch, then she'll have to come back and pick them up	[11:42]
pete_dushenski	my jaw hit the floor.	[11:43]
pete_dushenski	this, for some simple bank statements	[11:43]
kakobrekla	sounds about right.	[11:43]
mircea_popescu	scam.	[11:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15845 @ 0.00030622 = 4.8521 BTC [+]	[11:44]
pete_dushenski	seriously, reminded me of the spa lady health club scam	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	dude, check it out, pete_dushenski was punished by the holy redditard empire for his murdersome streak.	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	either that or just got bored.	[11:45]
pete_dushenski	i like the sound of 'murderous streak'	[11:45]
pete_dushenski	*murdersome	[11:46]
pete_dushenski	pass some of dat murder	[11:46]
pete_dushenski	o hey nasdaq 5k. again.	[11:47]
mircea_popescu	"with stun guns on mounted on their heads"	[11:47]
pete_dushenski	ef.	[11:49]
pete_dushenski	fixed. ty!	[11:49]
*	PeterL (~peterl@unaffiliated/peterl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:49]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[11:50]
mats	S&P is quite high too...	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	time to meet teh parents http://40.media.tumblr.com/b3b451526b36c461256b93216a70a44b/tumblr_mhpfg9rNk21rln4dzo1_1280.jpg	[11:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/199q6ZP )	[11:50]
mats	must be the cheap petrol.	[11:51]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:55]
danielpbarron	http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150320130957	[11:55]
assbot	OpenSSH 6.8 Released ... ( http://bit.ly/1OdTkat )	[11:55]
danielpbarron	Add FingerprintHash option to ssh(1) and sshd(8), and equivalent command-line flags to the other tools to control algorithm used for key fingerprints. The default changes from MD5 to SHA256 and format from hex to base64.	[11:55]
pete_dushenski	also fixed footnote ii in that last one. i'm asleep at the wheel here.	[11:56]
*	Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:57]
danielpbarron	with you off twitter, that puts me in the #2 spot for WoT user with most followers?	[11:58]
pete_dushenski	behind... ?	[11:58]
danielpbarron	!gettrust assbot copumpkin	[11:59]
assbot	Trust relationship from user assbot to user copumpkin: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. \| http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/copumpkin \| http://w.b-a.link/user/copumpkin	[11:59]
pete_dushenski	"A bug bounty hunter, Laxman Muthiyah, discovered a critical flaw in the Facebook Photo Sync feature and Facebook API that could allow any third-party app to access your personal photos from the hidden Facebook Photo Sync album." << lel that sm.	[11:59]
pete_dushenski	ah https://twitter.com/copumpkin	[12:00]
assbot	Dan P (@copumpkin) \| Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoMZAM )	[12:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.00029928 = 16.0414 BTC [-]	[12:00]
pete_dushenski	danielpbarron: of the regulars though, you're #1 !	[12:00]
danielpbarron	ah wait, ageis also has more :<	[12:00]
danielpbarron	and jyap	[12:01]
pete_dushenski	quality, not quantity, is the name of the game.	[12:01]
pete_dushenski	remove thee from the bezzle-mindedness	[12:01]
PeterL	what percentage of your followers are people you have never actually met in person?	[12:01]
danielpbarron	is this some "irc != irl" thing?	[12:02]
danielpbarron	who cares if i've met them?	[12:02]
PeterL	have you met everyone on irc?	[12:02]
PeterL	I was just curious?	[12:02]
danielpbarron	no	[12:02]
danielpbarron	i've met kyuupichan	[12:03]
danielpbarron	that's it	[12:03]
PeterL	my facebook is 100% people I know irl, my twitter is more like 5%	[12:04]
danielpbarron	that is, he's the one guy in here that i didn't know outside of b-a and have met him in person	[12:04]
danielpbarron	i think my twitter followers are higher quality than my facebook friends	[12:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46100 @ 0.00028923 = 13.3335 BTC [-] {4}	[12:05]
danielpbarron	this is real life. right in here.	[12:06]
danielpbarron	this is more real than most of the stuff people say "in person"	[12:06]
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*	funkenstein_ has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[12:09]
mod6	ya, irc has no substitutes	[12:11]
*	assbot removes voice from FrankU	[12:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43550 @ 0.000294 = 12.8037 BTC [+]	[12:12]
thestringpuller	lol without IRC this would be a BBS (in som alternate reality)	[12:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48700 @ 0.00029447 = 14.3407 BTC [+]	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	danielpbarron> this is more real than most of the stuff people say "in person" << well yeah but that's more a function of how boring most people are.	[12:33]
thestringpuller	http://imgur.com/VB7m7nq << >:(	[12:39]
bitstein	So, guys, how's the weather?	[12:39]
PeterL	springy	[12:39]
pete_dushenski	bitstein: spring yesterday, snow dump today, cake tomorrow	[12:43]
bitstein	pete_dushenski: birthday?	[12:44]
pete_dushenski	nah, soviet joke lol	[12:44]
chetty	cake is always tomorrow	[12:45]
PeterL	the cake is a lie	[12:45]
pete_dushenski	nah, tomorrow is a lie	[12:46]
bitstein	https://i.imgur.com/4tbzb7a.jpg	[12:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FKNzNU )	[12:46]
pete_dushenski	if only tomorrow could be today, then cake !	[12:46]
pete_dushenski	bitstein: ayup	[12:46]
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*	assbot gives voice to Naphex	[13:15]
Naphex	o/	[13:16]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: http://www.romania-insider.com/mcoin/144725/ looks like you got cited :D	[13:16]
assbot	Romanian sells house for 55,000 Mcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ExDTSJ )	[13:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00030019 = 11.8125 BTC [+]	[13:18]
*	trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:19]
fluffypony	wtf is an Mcoi	[13:20]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque	[13:20]
fluffypony	*Mcoin	[13:20]
Naphex	some MLM Ponzi scheme that has been hypeing in Romania lately	[13:20]
Naphex	http://trilema.com/2015/catre-ministerul-afacerilor-interne-in-atentia-d-lor-gheorghe-nicolae-petre-toba-bondar-marin-si-d-nei-laura-codru%C8%9Ba-kovesi-dvs-stiati-ca-angajatii-dvs-se-ocupa-cu-frauda-pe-internet/	[13:20]
assbot	Catre Ministerul Afacerilor Interne. In atentia d-lor Gheorghe Nicolae, Petre Toba, Bondar Marin si d-nei Laura Codruța Kövesi : Dvs stiati ca angajatii dvs se ocupa cu frauda pe Internet ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7h1A )	[13:20]
trinque	sorry davout, I changed the syntax on you	[13:23]
trinque	in teh logs	[13:23]
trinque	!up deedbot-	[13:24]
*	assbot gives voice to deedbot-	[13:24]
trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3QD6MT5.txt	[13:24]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[13:24]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/19F7ody )	[13:24]
trinque	donk	[13:24]
trinque	shall go out at the hour	[13:25]
mats	http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/30/nyregion/mark-strand-80-dies-pulitzer-winning-poet-laureate.html	[13:38]
assbot	Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/19F7Zfr )	[13:38]
trinque	mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1059635 << which is the manual ? << tried geting rid of that colon by making the bot parse all messages for commands, not just highlights, and making deedbot- the command. didn't work, seems it should. I'm going to poke tenyks' author today to find out what's smart	[13:40]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 05:46:33; trinque: which... not the behavior in the manual	[13:40]
trinque	punkman1: can I get "deedbot" from ya?	[13:42]
*	assbot removes voice from deedbot-	[13:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00028838 = 12.1985 BTC [-] {2}	[13:55]
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[]bot	Bet placed: 9.36 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 113.22817126 BTC. Current weight: 87,607.	[13:58]
trinque	!up deedbot-	[14:01]
*	assbot gives voice to deedbot-	[14:01]
trinque	deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt	[14:01]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1xE1LS7 )	[14:01]
deedbot-	imported: 027A8D7C0FB8A16643720F40721705A8B71EADAF	[14:01]
trinque	mircea_popescu: ^	[14:01]
*	OneNomos (~OneNomos@pool-71-163-237-248.washdc.east.verizon.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:16]
trinque	davout: http://deedbot.org/348443-15Fjyuen5G7eic5JJfQJjj133kLtcbcxV1.txt	[14:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/19FapKR )	[14:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92065 @ 0.00028819 = 26.5322 BTC [-]	[14:21]
*	Rozal (uid50160@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-grdglbhxlkebazfv) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:22]
*	Rozal is now known as Guest1281	[14:22]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41698 @ 0.00028819 = 12.0169 BTC [-]	[14:24]
*	Adlai has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[14:31]
*	assbot removes voice from deedbot-	[14:32]
mike_c	kakobrekla: that price! http://query.bitcoin-assets.com/?data=trades&since_id=121698	[14:34]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/19Fb6Ec )	[14:34]
mats	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo07.pdf new PoC\|\|GTFO	[14:34]
kakobrekla	mike_c "type":"21"	[14:34]
mike_c	oh. yeah.	[14:35]
mike_c	odd that never broke my shit before.	[14:35]
mike_c	anyways, thanks. my fault.	[14:35]
kakobrekla	it was broken for a long time	[14:35]
kakobrekla	recently got fixed and now causing trouble down the line	[14:36]
mike_c	it's odd, because i explictly skip anything not in [0, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15]	[14:38]
mike_c	or at least, it's supposed to.	[14:38]
kakobrekla	dunno	[14:38]
mike_c	dunno what? what the hell is wrong with my code??	[14:38]
kakobrekla	mhm	[14:38]
mike_c	;;calc 0.0028819 / (0.00000029 * 12)	[14:47]
gribble	828.132183908	[14:47]
mike_c	;;calc 0.00028819 / (0.00000029 * 12)	[14:48]
gribble	82.8132183908	[14:48]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 300 @ 0.00364196 = 1.0926 BTC [-] {6}	[14:58]
mats	ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar looks like Apple Lightning has been broken	[15:01]
mats	https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/coflynn/chipwhisperer-lite-a-new-era-of-hardware-security	[15:09]
assbot	ChipWhisperer-Lite: A New Era of Hardware Security Research by Colin O'Flynn — Kickstarter ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEYXVi )	[15:09]
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chetty	!up ascii_field	[15:16]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:16]
ascii_field	http://dpaste.com/2NEWGPY.txt << from mats's link (pure gold)	[15:16]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZgPO )	[15:17]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo07.pdf << mega-talmud of lulz	[15:17]
ascii_field	recommended to all	[15:17]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZgQ1 )	[15:17]
ascii_field	if you don't have a machine that can show 'pdf', find one just for this occasion.	[15:17]
ascii_field	mats: very neat.	[15:17]
ascii_field	http://dpaste.com/0QFRVZR << missed a page earlier	[15:19]
assbot	dpaste: 0QFRVZR: Cyber Criminal’s Song ... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZman )	[15:19]
trinque	ehehe hilarious	[15:21]
chetty	hahahah someone was a zork fan;You happen to see a note on the ground, a splotchy Hilbert curve napkin sketch followed by a handwritten	[15:22]
chetty	table of hexadecimal numbers with uncertain names scrawled nearby.	[15:22]
ascii_field	Aha.	[15:22]
ascii_field	GO NORTH	[15:22]
mats	lol	[15:23]
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danielpbarron	the "print instructions" assume you're on a debian variant (most likely for ubuntu users)	[15:24]
ascii_field	only in that 'apt-get'	[15:24]
danielpbarron	i guess if you're not on something debian you probably know how to convert that string into something useable	[15:25]
ascii_field	i normally just read that as a shorthand for 'install on your box...'	[15:25]
danielpbarron	ubuntu user would be like "wtf is emerge ??"	[15:25]
fluffypony	pacman -S	[15:26]
*	_FeltPen (670ac59a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.10.197.154) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:30]
ascii_field	'He passed away in 2008, a paragon of sticking to just the prescribed amount of murderous blood-thirstiness at any given time, a true knight of the Party Line -- and, if there is ever a Hell, doubtlessly sticking Hell's engineers with the problem of how to reward such a sterling life achievement of toeing it ever so precisely. There are many shitty jobs in this world and the one beyond, but, believe in Hell or not, that	[15:31]
ascii_field	one takes the cake.'	[15:31]
*	ascii_field picks self up off the floor	[15:31]
ascii_field	that thing contains the single best 'lysenko for dummiez' i've ever seen in english	[15:31]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu ^ consider for use on n00bz	[15:32]
*	ascii_field as an amateur scholar of crackpottery and malignant pseudoscience, owns the complete works of mr lysenko	[15:32]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo << 0-7	[15:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BEZVRs )	[15:35]
trinque	ascii_field: a quick google suggest this guy was off his rocker	[15:37]
ascii_field	trinque: not any more so than, say, a pope.	[15:38]
trinque	heh	[15:38]
trinque	the guy got dissent against lamarckism outlawed?	[15:39]
ascii_field	aha.	[15:39]
trinque	that's how you secure your legacy right there	[15:39]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[15:47]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[15:54]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[15:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53796 @ 0.0002863 = 15.4018 BTC [-] {2}	[15:54]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo05.pdf << p. 27 mega-l0l, demonstration of RDRAND-as-hypothetical-backdoor on x86	[15:54]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BF0I4U )	[15:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28978 @ 0.00028439 = 8.2411 BTC [-] {2}	[15:55]
*	NewLiberty is now known as NewNew	[16:03]
*	NewNew is now known as NewNewNewNew-	[16:03]
*	NewNewNewNew- is now known as NewLiberty	[16:03]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo04.pdf << p. 22: 'Lenticrypt: a Provably Plausibly Deniable Cryptosystem; or, This Picture of Cats is Also a Picture of Dogs'	[16:04]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OeKycz )	[16:04]
*	ascii_field has not yet read it but, the title alone, l0l	[16:04]
*	assbot gives voice to felipelalli	[16:06]
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felipelalli	My dear gang noise, did you guys see THIS: http://blog.btcjam.com/2015/03/19/btcjam-introduces-risk-based-pricing-interest-rates-set-automatically-by-credit-score/ ?	[16:06]
assbot	BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) \| BTCJam Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeLayK )	[16:06]
felipelalli	I'm crying here. :'( The simply just killed the BTCJam.	[16:07]
*	t4nk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[16:07]
felipelalli	&They	[16:07]
gribble	Error: "They" is not a valid command.	[16:07]
felipelalli	*They	[16:07]
felipelalli	Anyone can write about this on qntra.net? They just eliminate one of the best features of BTCJam.	[16:08]
*	gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:08]
danielpbarron	felipelalli> My dear gang noise, did you guys see THIS << ya they sent me an email for some reason	[16:08]
danielpbarron	to be fair, things like btcjam are already dead; this is more like shooting the zombie in the head so that it stops trying to feast on brains	[16:09]
*	Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus)	[16:11]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << article on pg. 5 about 'fits in head' - pure gold	[16:13]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OeMIZG )	[16:13]
ascii_field	('greybeard's luck')	[16:13]
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felipelalli	danielpbarron: :'(	[16:15]
felipelalli	but really	[16:15]
felipelalli	I'm so sad and so so so so fucking crazy with this.	[16:16]
felipelalli	R.I.P. BTCJam. It was a nice service!!	[16:16]
danielpbarron	wait.. you were serious?	[16:16]
felipelalli	why not?	[16:16]
danielpbarron	did you lend on it or borrow?	[16:16]
felipelalli	both	[16:16]
*	danielpbarron slaps felipelalli around a bit with a large default	[16:17]
felipelalli	why do you think services like BTCJam are already dead?	[16:17]
felipelalli	They are getting worse, but dead just with this decision.	[16:17]
danielpbarron	they aren't in the WoT	[16:17]
felipelalli	At least you can associate OTC in that.	[16:18]
felipelalli	I know their reputation system is a crap.	[16:18]
felipelalli	But it is a nice and useful service.	[16:18]
felipelalli	The ugly true is that we have no options.	[16:18]
felipelalli	That's why it is good. Because we don't have better options.	[16:18]
danielpbarron	but you .. do!	[16:19]
danielpbarron	in here	[16:19]
felipelalli	But now I have ZERO option.	[16:19]
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danielpbarron	that's because you had ZERO ideas worth investing in	[16:19]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo03.pdf << pg. 18: demonstration that intel -could- have diddled RDRAND instruction in such a way as to undetectably manipulate linux rng in spite of xor lemma	[16:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OeO3iV )	[16:19]
trinque	ascii_field: is it possible to use random data from multiple sources that are diddled, but by different manufacturers, and get usable random data?	[16:20]
ascii_field	trinque: read the linked piece	[16:21]
trinque	k	[16:21]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: I'm sad. They killed a service that I was using for years. It isn't that good, but...	[16:21]
ascii_field	trinque: spoiler: recall that the XORing also happens on same cpu	[16:21]
danielpbarron	and people were using piratat40's "service" for a while too	[16:21]
ascii_field	and therefore manipulable.	[16:21]
ascii_field	see also last week's thread re: specificity of diddlage	[16:22]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: but do you think BTCJam was a crap from the start to end?	[16:22]
danielpbarron	yes	[16:22]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: how do you lend money?	[16:22]
felipelalli	or borrow?	[16:22]
*	ascii_field wishes he could buy the entire issue of the 'pocorgfo' in hard cover archival paper	[16:22]
ascii_field	as it comes out, even	[16:22]
danielpbarron	i don't except with very close associates and even then i'd really rather not	[16:23]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: so, you are not the target, that's why you are not worried.	[16:23]
danielpbarron	;;later tell nubbins` ^ job opportunity	[16:23]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:23]
danielpbarron	felipelalli, get more WoT connections in here and maybe you can borrow money	[16:24]
ascii_field	why would anyone want to borrow btc ?	[16:24]
danielpbarron	that's what I'd like to know	[16:24]
ascii_field	if you can reliably turn x btc into kx for some nonzero positive k,	[16:24]
danielpbarron	i know a guy (Birdman) who borrows it to play poker	[16:24]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:24]
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danielpbarron	!up ascii_field	[16:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:25]
ascii_field	then you don't need to borrow, just start with epsilon	[16:25]
ascii_field	and end up with as many as you want	[16:25]
danielpbarron	well he always loses it	[16:25]
danielpbarron	that's why he always needs to borrow it again	[16:25]
trinque	that's uh, not borrowing	[16:25]
ascii_field	and someone, knowing this, wants to lend ?	[16:25]
felipelalli	danielpbarron ascii_field many reasons, like arbitrage for example. But you can borrow linked to USD or BRL.	[16:25]
danielpbarron	felipelalli, like what ascii said, if that were profitable you should already have a stash with which to work	[16:26]
*	gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) has left #bitcoin-assets	[16:26]
felipelalli	that what exactly? Borrow?	[16:27]
ascii_field	felipelalli: linked to usd << can go borrow usd right now, trivially	[16:27]
danielpbarron	if you have some arbitrage opportunity, and it's worked in the past, you should have bitcoin from last time to make it work again this time.. so why the need to borrow?	[16:27]
ascii_field	as many as you like	[16:27]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: but and in the first time?	[16:28]
danielpbarron	well you seem to be well past a first time.?	[16:28]
danielpbarron	and yeah, go borrow fiat, buy bitcoin, make money, sell some bitcoin, repay loan	[16:28]
felipelalli	borrow fiat where?	[16:29]
felipelalli	in the bank?	[16:29]
danielpbarron	idk, i have credit cards	[16:29]
ascii_field	felipelalli: friendly local mafia	[16:29]
danielpbarron	every week i'm getting new offers	[16:29]
danielpbarron	i have a stack of those prepaid return envelopes	[16:29]
danielpbarron	:D	[16:29]
felipelalli	Depends on situation. For example: I had to spend some unforeseen money and I didn't want to climb a mountain to get my bitcoins, so I got a loan with a very low interest rate.	[16:30]
felipelalli	Yes, I store my bitcoin in a coordinate.	[16:30]
danielpbarron	it's so risky borrowing bitcoin; it's ruined lives	[16:30]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: it is linked with USD :)	[16:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26869 @ 0.00028369 = 7.6225 BTC [-]	[16:31]
danielpbarron	i really doubt your secret mountain wallet is as secure as you imagine	[16:31]
felipelalli	the bitcoin is just the mean.	[16:31]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: well, I have some backups.	[16:31]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: but I am a geocaching player and yes, it is very secure.	[16:31]
danielpbarron	i don't doubt your physical hiding abilities	[16:31]
mats	rofl	[16:32]
danielpbarron	i doubt 1) your entropy generating abilities 2) your not telling a secret when a hot iron is inserted into your body abilities	[16:32]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: I have to go now! :) I'll write an article about this bad move of BTCJam soon. Thank you.	[16:32]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: 1) well, you will never know. 2) don't put all your eggs in the same basket.	[16:33]
ascii_field	https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/pocorgtfo02.pdf << p. 3 article, 'on importance of tools' << pure gold	[16:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OeS0o0 )	[16:36]
danielpbarron	oh btw i got my ADA reference manual; things quite nice. it's from a public library and it looks as though nobody ever checked it out	[16:37]
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danielpbarron	someone pointed out to me that if i wasn't already a terrorist suspect, buying the reference manual to the language for airplanes isn't going to help that image	[16:39]
danielpbarron	!up Bagels7	[16:39]
*	assbot gives voice to Bagels7	[16:39]
trinque	danielpbarron: order a nodejs book and throw them off	[16:39]
ascii_field	order 'anarchist's cookbook', get on the 'harmless idiots' list	[16:40]
*	trinque has quit (Quit: trinque)	[16:40]
*	trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:40]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque	[16:41]
trinque	well, that wasn't the right keybinding	[16:41]
*	assbot gives voice to Adlai	[16:43]
Adlai	ascii_field: lies, there is no whitelist	[16:44]
ascii_field	brownlist	[16:44]
trinque	I'll go out on a limb and say they're not rounding up people for derping on IRC	[16:44]
trinque	as much as that would make one the star of one's own action movie	[16:44]
ascii_field	with enough effort, can get rounded up for derping with goose quill pen on parchment	[16:45]
chetty	I'll go out on a limb and say they're not rounding up people for derping on IRC//yet	[16:46]
trinque	chetty: maybe, years can make the inconceivable inevitable	[16:49]
trinque	seems like you have to go directly after them pretty hard before they kill you	[16:50]
trinque	not... buy an ada book	[16:50]
trinque	michael hastings had what seems to me a long life by most measures of govt oppression	[16:51]
ascii_field	the 'honest man hanged by six words he wrote' is not hanged 1/6th of the way by each	[16:51]
ascii_field	but trinque's observation brings to mind one of mine	[16:51]
trinque	ascii_field: well I think I'm echoing a sentiment I've heard from you; I wont be grabbing my rifle any time soon	[16:51]
trinque	just waiting	[16:51]
trinque	and educating myself	[16:51]
ascii_field	every day when i wake up still alive, i know that i have not yet achieved anything.	[16:52]
trinque	hah! that's about right	[16:52]
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kakobrekla	eh s.nsa is still young	[16:53]
danielpbarron	!up mariorz	[16:54]
*	assbot gives voice to mariorz	[16:54]
danielpbarron	!up yrashk	[16:54]
*	assbot gives voice to yrashk	[16:54]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:55]
trinque	!up ascii_field	[16:55]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:55]
*	GSpotAssassin___ (sid4086@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jcecgpvnmujsmauc) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:57]
ascii_field	jurov: no, this is the naive picture	[16:58]
ascii_field	the way it works, when it works, is that moles actually take the trouble to read (or even provocateur...) in the forum	[16:58]
ascii_field	(whichever forum)	[16:58]
ascii_field	and slowly, meticulously form a picture of who gets the red carpet to the gasenwagen and when	[16:59]
jurov	i can see that, except for slowness or even meticulousness	[17:00]
mircea_popescu	mp whining in 2012 that there's no rifled bullets. commenter fixing it, today : http://trilema.com/2012/o-idee-practica/#comment-113197	[17:01]
assbot	O idee practica ✭ pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OeWFpU )	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	amd hi all!	[17:01]
jurov	hello	[17:02]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: rifled projectiles for smoothbore barrels are sold in every hunting shop in usa	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	yeah well...	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	romanian ok ? easier audience.	[17:02]
ascii_field	jurov: normally you can tell who are the 'basic' shills by noting their assumptions (of their marks being dumb as shit) - see, e.g., mr moarspam: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2015#1014388	[17:03]
assbot	Logged on 10-02-2015 03:30:16; asciilifeform: also claimed to be working on a 'military' path to sovereign moldbuggistan, which screams 'provocateur'	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	course that may just select for dumb willful people.	[17:04]
ascii_field	zap the predators, zap their prey - we don't need either for anything	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	mmm	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	their prey is usually someone's mom.	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	take BingoBoingo's earlier drunken rageorgy.	[17:05]
ascii_field	not speaking of generic sp4mz0rz here	[17:05]
ascii_field	but of provocateurs	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	not sure that resolves it.	[17:05]
ascii_field	like the one in linked thread	[17:05]
mircea_popescu	naphex ahahaha romania-insider, you should see that thing o gawd.	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	best english is lulzy english.	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field aite working my way there,	[17:07]
[]bot	Bet created: "BTC to top $500 before June 29th" http://bitbet.us/bet/1130/	[17:08]
trinque	anybody know punkman's status? wanted to get the bot squared away with a proper nick, then get that autovoiced	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060348 << sweet.	[17:08]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 16:57:04; trinque: deedbot- http://dpaste.com/1QX85DC.txt	[17:08]
trinque	if I can't get deedbot, I'll just do it with the dash	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	;;seen punkman1	[17:08]
gribble	punkman1 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 weeks, 3 days, 7 hours, 11 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: command line deed grabber: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoinyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ \| grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	;;seen punkman	[17:08]
gribble	punkman was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 11 hours, 58 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: https://twitter.com/neweraesthetics/status/574869026817601536	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	punkman yo	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	hm.	[17:08]
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mircea_popescu	!up Mrstickball	[17:09]
-assbot-	You voiced Mrstickball for 30 minutes.	[17:09]
*	assbot gives voice to Mrstickball	[17:09]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060364 << lol win	[17:10]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 17:32:01; kakobrekla: recently got fixed and now causing trouble down the line	[17:10]
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*	assbot gives voice to brendafdez	[17:12]
mircea_popescu	felipelalli: My dear gang noise, << new one.	[17:12]
mircea_popescu	anyway, is btcjam just about cooked up enough to go belly up or does it still have thread to survive this year ?	[17:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060428 << i dunno that anyone ever took them seriously.	[17:13]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:03:25; felipelalli: Anyone can write about this on qntra.net? They just eliminate one of the best features of BTCJam.	[17:13]
brendafdez	I was searching the logs and couldn't find a way to sort by date ascending. Tried setting the start parameter to a value close to the total number of results, but it won't take values greater than 5000. :( Is there a way to do it?	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060448 o.O. See http://trilema.com/2015/btcjam-what-starts-as-a-scam-stays-a-scam/ ? or maybe https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-btcjam-peer-to-peer-bitcoin-lending.67541/page-21#post-1330880 ?	[17:15]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:13:49; felipelalli: But it is a nice and useful service.	[17:15]
assbot	BTCJam : What starts as a scam stays a scam pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GAelGZ )	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	but anyway.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	brendafdez i thought search automatically sorts by time, descending ?	[17:16]
danielpbarron	brendafdez, beginning of public log -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-04-2013#1	[17:16]
assbot	Logged on 26-04-2013 00:01:30; pgp3: just looked at chart... shit... a couple hours can be an eternity in bitcoin land...	[17:16]
[]bot	Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "BTC to top $500 before June 29th" http://bitbet.us/bet/1130/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.6 BTC. Current weight: 99,994.	[17:16]
brendafdez	I was trying to see the first messages in the chan by each user. If a user has say 50000 messages, I can't find a way to see the pages with the earliest 45000.	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	oh.	[17:17]
mircea_popescu	yeah i think you found a problem that can't actually be resolved with currently available tools.	[17:18]
danielpbarron	that's a feature! nobody wants their first words to be seen again :p	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[17:18]
brendafdez	ok :P then it'll have to be done the hard way ;)	[17:18]
mircea_popescu	it is sort-of a feature, you only get to see the noobish beginnings of people newer than you.	[17:18]
kakobrekla	meanwhile http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from:brendafdez&start=180	[17:18]
assbot	184 results for 'from:brendafdez' - #bitcoin-assets search	[17:18]
brendafdez	works only bc I have less than 5000	[17:19]
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kakobrekla	a	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060482 << well yes but maybe it's a one shot thing.	[17:19]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:20:31; ascii_field: and end up with as many as you want	[17:19]
*	trinque reads davout's latest deed.... gpg on win 3.1??	[17:20]
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trinque	seems I'd sooner airgap a bsd or something, but if it works it works	[17:22]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86800 @ 0.00028414 = 24.6634 BTC [+] {4}	[17:22]
trinque	is there some ancient processor which has an rng that works?	[17:22]
*	assbot removes voice from mariorz	[17:24]
*	assbot removes voice from yrashk	[17:24]
trinque	!up punkman1	[17:25]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman1	[17:25]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:25]
trinque	deedbot- or notary? punkman1 has notary grouped atm	[17:25]
trinque	!up ascii_field	[17:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:25]
trinque	mircea_popescu: ^	[17:26]
trinque	eh it's already deedbot lots of places, probably best with the current nick	[17:26]
trinque	punkman1: lose your primary nick?	[17:27]
*	Guest1281 (uid50160@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lpdobgrcdkfpeebd) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:27]
*	punkman1 is now known as punkman	[17:27]
punkman	nope	[17:27]
ascii_field	trinque: rng in ic is a dead concept right off the bat	[17:27]
*	NewLiberty is now known as NewLiberty_afk	[17:27]
punkman	trinque, I think Ragnar had "deedbot" account, you can ask him	[17:28]
trinque	RagnarDanneskjol: ^ lemme know if you'd like the current deedbot to use that nick	[17:29]
punkman	http://xm42.com/	[17:32]
assbot	XM42™ \| The Ion Productions Team ... ( http://bit.ly/1xmQnzv )	[17:32]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060490 << no, not for him, and not for most of the third world.	[17:33]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:23:04; ascii_field: felipelalli: linked to usd << can go borrow usd right now, trivially	[17:33]
mircea_popescu	if you imagine random guy in this world can borrow for any purpose you're nuts. all banks lend to nat'l government and us government only.	[17:34]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: speaking from the chumpatronic jail here, just about any schmuck can get at least 5 digits of loansharkamatic without breaking a sweat	[17:34]
ascii_field	(at extortionate interest, but that's a separate question)	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	sure, but uniquely usian phenomenon.	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	AND this is for the great benefit of everyone else, because nobody is as poor as usians.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	just, you know, everyone thinks they're speshul. but if i were a natl bank governor i wouldn't allow the derps to borrow either.	[17:35]
ascii_field	it is used as the real primary taxation mechanism	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	"get an education get a house get insurance get a wife" etc. sure.	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	but still.	[17:36]
ascii_field	schmuck wants to live in a house, owes $maxint, pays interest until dies	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	i think bynow college > housing, but yeah, same idea.	[17:36]
trinque	nobody under 30 expects to own a house anymore	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	that's cool, because nobody over 30 owns one, either.	[17:37]
trinque	rent forever, never pay off student debt	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	expectations coming to allign with reality is a measure of emerging sanity	[17:37]
trinque	of course, property taxes underneath all the other "it's not really yours"	[17:37]
trinque	or forfeiture	[17:38]
*	Adlai wouldn't be surprised if not only http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-03-2015#1039710 but also it contains a few houses too	[17:38]
assbot	Logged on 03-03-2015 09:14:51; mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone in the wot ever actually starves.	[17:38]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060503 << and here we go. nothing to do with money everything to do with household cashflow	[17:38]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:25:24; felipelalli: Depends on situation. For example: I had to spend some unforeseen money and I didn't want to climb a mountain to get my bitcoins, so I got a loan with a very low interest rate.	[17:38]
Adlai	though the wot isn't exactly your average "nobody over 30"	[17:38]
trinque	I got paid to go to college and still left	[17:38]
ascii_field	i have a fairly solid expectation of starving eventually	[17:39]
ascii_field	so gotta disagree	[17:39]
ascii_field	(somehow didn't notice that thread..)	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i had an article about how all us citizens should have a solid expectation of being homeless eventually	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	it's just what the numbers say	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	(% of homeless people, life expectancy of homeless people, life expectancy of general population, -> over 50% or some shit)	[17:40]
*	assbot removes voice from Mrstickball	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060505 << you familiar with the experience of that one guy who borrowed in 2011ish toi make a point, was still paying on it by 2013 ?	[17:40]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:26:02; danielpbarron: it's so risky borrowing bitcoin; it's ruined lives	[17:40]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: how's that work, you're saying homeless people have longer life expectancy?	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	much shorter.	[17:41]
danielpbarron	probably; i've read the horror stories on the forum	[17:41]
Adlai	then why would most people have an expectation of being homeless eventually!?	[17:41]
Adlai	or is the theory that homelessness is a stage just before death	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	think of it in terms of particles : if muons live a second and meons an hour, and at all times 10% of particle population is muons, then what changes does a meon to turn into a muon during its lifetime ?	[17:41]
ascii_field	Adlai: in usa, if your income nulls out you turn into a bum generally within one business quarter	[17:41]
trinque	mircea_popescu: hm is this where the declining soviet population went? a different x% croaking on the street per year?	[17:41]
trinque	ascii_field: ^	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	pretty much.	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	s/changes/chances/	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	felipelalli if you write some apologetic pos about how toejam is an actual service it's not getting published.	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	"all the other rags" is the proper venue for that sorta nonsense.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060523 << this lol	[17:44]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:35:24; ascii_field: order 'anarchist's cookbook', get on the 'harmless idiots' list	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060529 << this actually hapepned ?	[17:44]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:40:39; ascii_field: with enough effort, can get rounded up for derping with goose quill pen on parchment	[17:44]
ascii_field	first one that comes to mind is giordanno bruno	[17:45]
danielpbarron	according to the mythology taught in US public school, ya	[17:45]
ascii_field	but yes, complicated (TM)	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	last one not first one.	[17:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.0002872 = 12.9384 BTC [+]	[17:46]
*	mapop has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060549 << someone's not been paying attention TO ALL THE ALLCAPS DEPRAGE. TEMPEST. WHOREFEST. MUCUS. ANTIETAM. ETCISAWORD.	[17:46]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 19:53:04; jurov: and more importantly, before or after collection, query for certain books and irc channels	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	trinque hastings was born before me wtf. this is a long life now ?	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	s/before/after.	[17:47]
trinque	mircea_popescu: when imagining overt dictatorship I'd think so	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	i don't think any human population can be stable with lifetimes averages < 30.	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	the population simply collapses at that point. think cockroaches.	[17:48]
ascii_field	re: starving: at any rate, starvation is also what they do to 'problematic' folks in usa instead of shooting, typically	[17:48]
ascii_field	blackballing - traditional	[17:48]
trinque	oh we're fucked; I just don't expect that the men in black are coming for me because I said I like bitcoin	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field problem is we're rich. this can no longer work for bitcoin.	[17:48]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu is rich	[17:48]
*	ascii_field is not remotely confusable for rich	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	the plan is of course to use it extensively on anyone related to usg, starting with the press, starting with idiot whores a la leah goodman and idiot venues a la newsweek	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	but it onl;y works that way	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field not you and me per se. bitcoin, itself, going for 10bn dollah nao.	[17:49]
mircea_popescu	too far.	[17:49]
trinque	ascii_field's comment about having accomplished something put it better than I did	[17:50]
ascii_field	'you'n me will burn in this here tank, but red army triumphs' (tm) /	[17:50]
ascii_field	?	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	you were discussing economic warfare omg.	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	"you and i might not care or know, but someone in the capitalist club is financing the new lightbulb"	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	and the discussion of how this works - already, for that matter - is right above : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060676	[17:53]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 20:38:54; mircea_popescu: felipelalli if you write some apologetic pos about how toejam is an actual service it's not getting published.	[17:53]
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mircea_popescu	one day newsweek will need to borrow and find itself unable to.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	and some other day, usg.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	as you say, it's called blackballing.	[17:54]
ascii_field	yeah, but right now the who-whom is pointed the other way.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	nope	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	it only works one way.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	modern weapons yo. they only work in the hands of the proper people.	[17:55]
ascii_field	rly. so mykotronx is holding bake sales to build nsa crypto garbage, and s.nsa is baking diamond ternary ram ?	[17:55]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[17:55]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: I understand. Thank you.	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	but there's nothing anyone can do to prevent s.nsa from baking what it bakes	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	whereas mykotronx can stop tomorrow, and that tomorrow is coming.	[17:56]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:56]
*	assbot removes voice from punkman	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[17:56]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[17:56]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:56]
ascii_field	'It will be a great day when our schools get all the money they need and the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber.' (some american derpmeister in the '60s)	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field compare, for it is informative, cisco's experience with bitbet's experience.	[17:56]
mircea_popescu	cisco was caught working with usg, lost 90% of sales in onequarter.	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	derp fucked up on bitbet, it turns out bitbet is not a consumer venue, sales doubled that quarter.	[17:57]
ascii_field	then we find out that it doesn't actually need sales for anything	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	this is what it is, and the most important dynamic since combustion engine.	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	of course it does.	[17:57]
ascii_field	it gets to carry on derping by order of the tsar-god	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	not in any sense useful, that.	[17:57]
trinque	tsar god can't declare things into existence	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	imagine your daughter fails exams, now can't go to school. so what, you make her a mini university out of cardboard, and while the other girls to go school	[17:58]
*	ascii_field recalls learning with alarm as a little boy that there was ever such a thing as a reichsmark. 'couldn't hitler simply order shit done?'	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	she derps with puppets in the foot tall "campus" ?	[17:58]
ascii_field	lol i live in that campus.	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i gtg, we shall continue this argument tomorrow	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	and day after,	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	and all days until the one day, because it seems our fate :D	[17:59]
ascii_field	lulzatronix.	[17:59]
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nubbins`	*:ascii_field wishes he could buy the entire issue of the 'pocorgfo' in hard cover archival paper <<< judging by the second-page notes, you can	[18:09]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028308 = 6.1145 BTC [-]	[18:12]
felipelalli	mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored?	[18:15]
danielpbarron	oh speaking of things nubbins` can print; how about an official Qntra business card?	[18:15]
danielpbarron	felipelalli, the alternative is right in here	[18:16]
nubbins`	danielpbarron no doubt	[18:16]
nubbins`	silkscreened business cards are ++	[18:16]
danielpbarron	well i don't necessarily want to design one, but if that sounds like something the other qntra writers would want, I'd like a stack of them with my name on it if that's ok	[18:17]
nubbins`	felipelalli how many users does windows xp have?	[18:17]
nubbins`	should they be ignored? 8)	[18:17]
nubbins`	danielpbarron if you guys figure somethin out between yourselves, i can print a batch all at once to save on setup	[18:17]
danielpbarron	that's what i mean :D	[18:18]
nubbins`	we print them something like 36-up, so you could have w/e number of designs/names/etc you wanted	[18:19]
nubbins`	"Th is i s how t o c o n v e r t an i s s u e f o r d u pl e x p r i n t i n g ."	[18:20]
nubbins`	right on	[18:20]
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nubbins`	asciilifeform these things look great	[18:21]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:26]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:28]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:28]
felipelalli	nubbins`: in other words, should they be ignored? :)	[18:29]
felipelalli	danielpbarron: Thank you! Next time I'll try it! :)	[18:29]
nubbins`	felipelalli you tell me 8)	[18:30]
nubbins`	point being that yes, many people can be wrong	[18:30]
nubbins`	asciilifeform you'd be looking at around $10-15 for a softcover / staple-bound issue of this sent to your door	[18:30]
nubbins`	depending on page count	[18:31]
felipelalli	nubbins`: but I would like to collect the cons arguments. I was using the service for a while and it was nice, except the reputation system. But yes, without a good reputation system, it is worthless. :/	[18:31]
nubbins`	sounds like "it is worthless" is a pretty big con.	[18:31]
ascii_field	nubbins`: which 'this'	[18:31]
ascii_field	nubbins`: the whole set ?	[18:31]
felipelalli	nubbins`: :) huge.	[18:32]
nubbins`	sorry, just grabbed a random issue	[18:32]
nubbins`	let me get a full page count here	[18:32]
nubbins`	issue 6 recommends printing it on ledger	[18:32]
felipelalli	I said to BTCJam CEO: "mircea said BTCJam is not even a service" he said "who is this?" and then tried to convince me "other people disagree with him"	[18:33]
felipelalli	I was trying to convince him that don't let the users choose the interest rate is not a good idea.	[18:37]
danielpbarron	well it's an obvious path for them to take considering the thing is a scam attractor	[18:38]
nubbins`	ascii_field say around a hundred bucks for issues 00-07, 8.5x11" footprint, staple-bound	[18:39]
ascii_field	staple bound ?	[18:39]
ascii_field	as in, iron staples ?	[18:39]
BingoBoingo	I have the most intense hangover	[18:39]
nubbins`	i'd have to check the type of metal	[18:39]
ascii_field	ugh	[18:39]
ascii_field	not booklike at all	[18:39]
nubbins`	almost certainly steel	[18:39]
nubbins`	hey, i can hand-sew, but you're not gonna like the price	[18:39]
felipelalli	he said they have a "learning machine" to determine the correct interest rate, but it is a joke don't let the free market decide its own rates.	[18:40]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00028308 = 12.2574 BTC [-]	[18:41]
nubbins`	once you start sewing bindings, you commit to labour-intensive cover attachment	[18:41]
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ascii_field	ah	[18:41]
ascii_field	it was worth a shot. thx for the phree quote, nubbins`	[18:42]
ascii_field	but i can laser print and perforate as well as the next guy.	[18:42]
nubbins`	nod	[18:42]
danielpbarron	http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950	[18:43]
assbot	Gmane -- Re: stable Linux 2.6.25.10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Lp8K )	[18:43]
danielpbarron	point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.	[18:43]
nubbins`	it's only around $30 of materials	[18:43]
danielpbarron	Security people are often the black-and-white kind of people that I can't stand. I think the OpenBSD crowd is a bunch of masturbating monkeys, in that they make such a big deal about concentrating on security to the point where they pretty much admit that nothing else matters to them.	[18:43]
nubbins`	truthfully it's the fact that all the setup work is being done for a single book	[18:44]
nubbins`	if you wanted, say, even a half-dozen copies, different story	[18:44]
ascii_field	nubbins`: yes, like circuit boards	[18:44]
ascii_field	nubbins`: i routinely use 'print on demand' houses when i feel like getting xxxx in dead tree, but the result is invariably just a little better than what i can do at home	[18:45]
ascii_field	not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance	[18:45]
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ascii_field	(other than with perforator and spiral binding)	[18:45]
danielpbarron	i might buy one if there are enough people in the pool	[18:45]
nubbins`	you'd be surprised how tricky it is!	[18:45]
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*	ascii_field has bound books by hand and is not even slightly surprised	[18:45]
nubbins`	heh. well, there y'go.	[18:46]
ascii_field	but fact remains, there is no automagickal machine for it	[18:46]
nubbins`	let me find some drool shots	[18:46]
ascii_field	like there is for the crappy bindings	[18:46]
ascii_field	danielpbarron: linus is wrong, but very few people seem to grasp the reason why	[18:47]
nubbins`	http://imgur.com/2C4E5GP,20B9ktJ,SEDrede,EPI6Pww,pxZ4arA	[18:47]
assbot	Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXV9C1 )	[18:47]
ascii_field	!s malice incompetence	[18:47]
assbot	21 results for 'malice incompetence' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=malice+incompetence	[18:48]
nubbins`	5th image shows the kind of corners a thousand-dollar book plough makes.	[18:48]
danielpbarron	did that 0.5.3 source ever become a book? maybe put that on the list of things I'd buy if enough people in pool	[18:48]
ascii_field	danielpbarron: it did not	[18:48]
nubbins`	danielpbarron it was shelved at the time	[18:48]
ascii_field	danielpbarron: because i'm not interested in reading crud	[18:48]
danielpbarron	basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want	[18:48]
nubbins`	until such point is reached that the code is worthy of bookifying	[18:49]
ascii_field	remember, b00kz only work if you... read'em	[18:49]
*	assbot gives voice to cazalla	[18:49]
nubbins`	nobody wants to pay me to typeset a piece of shit for 20 hours 8)	[18:49]
ascii_field	nubbins`: what is a book plough ?	[18:49]
ascii_field	cutting press ?	[18:49]
danielpbarron	S.BOOK needs to be a thing maybe	[18:49]
nubbins`	cutting press sounds like a fair synonym	[18:50]
nubbins`	http://www.louet.nl/en/bookbinding-vertical-plough	[18:50]
assbot	Louët :: Vertical Plough ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Mpd5 )	[18:50]
cazalla	BingoBoingo, how much piss did you sink last night?	[18:50]
nubbins`	you can find youtube vidyas of same	[18:50]
ascii_field	most folks source, rather than sink, piss	[18:50]
ascii_field	nubbins`: betcha a laser would work	[18:50]
nubbins`	mayhap. but it'd singe the pages?	[18:50]
nubbins`	the edges this plough makes are as smooth as fucking /glass/.	[18:51]
cazalla	ascii_field, we do things different down under :)	[18:51]
ascii_field	nubbins`: surprisingly little burn if cut correctly	[18:52]
nubbins`	wild	[18:52]
ascii_field	but yes, they'll turn black	[18:52]
nubbins`	http://www.talasonline.com/	[18:52]
assbot	Talas \|\| Professional Archival, Bookbinding, Conservation and Restoration Supplies ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXW0CQ )	[18:52]
nubbins`	^ source of all things bookish	[18:52]
nubbins`	their print catalog is a particular joy	[18:52]
ascii_field	bookbinding is rather like music in a sense	[18:52]
nubbins`	harkens back to the first time i rcv'd a mouser catalog	[18:52]
nubbins`	oh, it's 100% an art	[18:52]
nubbins`	you can't teach it	[18:52]
nubbins`	...or maybe i just can't be taught it 8)	[18:53]
ascii_field	in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba	[18:53]
nubbins`	hahah.	[18:53]
nubbins`	hey, if it gets the job done.	[18:53]
nubbins`	although TBF an old-timey bookbinding setup is still an incredibly efficient way to work	[18:54]
BingoBoingo	cazalla: Half of a handle	[18:54]
nubbins`	i've done staple-binding, perfect binding, kettle stitch binding... eventually i'm gonna have to order some board and cloth	[18:55]
nubbins`	at which point things will come full-circle and i'll be silkscreening fabric for the covers of silkscreened books	[18:55]
ascii_field	reference bitcoin - board & leather.	[18:55]
cazalla	what's that.. a bit over 700ml.. damn that's a good effort BingoBoingo	[18:55]
BingoBoingo	Yeah, got myself good and pickled	[18:56]
nubbins`	ascii_field there's a woman in town who's been binding for years, has an ancient letterpress setup. i'd say she'd at least know where to point me for leather work	[18:57]
nubbins`	you opposed to sealskin?	[18:58]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:58]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[18:58]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:58]
ascii_field	sealskin works	[18:58]
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nubbins`	fair warning, animal lovers may resent you for it	[18:59]
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Adlai	needs a good dropcap, style of http://croquersamuse.voila.net/images/Web%20DSCN4701.jpg	[19:00]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1x9NLEG )	[19:00]
nubbins`	seals are uh, "special" mammalia. they're cute enough that their harvesting produces outrage	[19:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108500 @ 0.0002829 = 30.6947 BTC [-] {2}	[19:00]
nubbins`	Adlai religious texts are ++++ for those	[19:00]
Adlai	is bitcoin deserving of 'religion' status?	[19:00]
Adlai	being in the wot qualifies you for overseeing marriage in 2020 england, kind of stuff	[19:01]
ascii_field	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3238352932884994@naggum.no.html << obligatory naggum	[19:01]
assbot	Re: Common Lisp vs Scheme - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9NSjK )	[19:01]
ascii_field	(last paragraph)	[19:01]
danielpbarron	nubbins`> fair warning, animal lovers may resent you for it << so.. win win :D	[19:02]
ascii_field	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3237396100556424@naggum.no.html	[19:03]
assbot	Re: Why I can't use Lisp. - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXXJIn )	[19:03]
ascii_field	' I went to my local bookstore the other day. I wanted to give a beautifully bound Bible to a Christian friend of mine. Suddenly, I felt space around me warp and I was in USENET space. People from comp.lang.scheme offered me a beutifully bound Torah. People from comp.lang.dylan offered me a beautifully bound Koran. People from elsewhere on the Net offered me beautifully bound copies of The Lord of the Rings, Atlas	[19:04]
ascii_field	Shrugged, A New Kind of Science, and then other people chimed in with suggestions for Gray's Anatomy, The Chicago Manual of Style, and the 25-year anniversary edition of Gödel, Escher, Bach, all of them arguing that if I wanted the most important book, I would want their suggestions. I scremed, "Enough!", and space just as suddenly warped back to the bookstore and the very helpful young Muslim woman behind the counter	[19:04]
ascii_field	went to find a soft-leather-bound Bible with gold edges on the India paper, just like I had wanted and asked for, without unwelcome suggestions or anyone pretending to know better than me. It was so respectful I almost got religion, myself. '	[19:04]
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ascii_field	danielpbarron: varying translations or just bindings ?	[19:07]
danielpbarron	one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store	[19:07]
danielpbarron	bindings mostly	[19:07]
danielpbarron	although i have a spanish one	[19:07]
danielpbarron	but mostly KJV	[19:07]
danielpbarron	i'd like more NKJV but they just aren't as widly produced	[19:07]
nubbins`	friend of mine has a ton of bibles	[19:08]
nubbins`	he's got one that's a reproduction of the 1st-edition gutenberg bible	[19:08]
danielpbarron	actually maybe nubbins` can help me there; I have this really nice pocket Bible with a zipper and real leather, but it's KJV and i'd like it in NKJV	[19:08]
nubbins`	SO MANY HUGE FUCK-UPS	[19:08]
danielpbarron	probably way out of my price range though	[19:08]
nubbins`	they don't sell nkjv bibles w/ zippers and leather?	[19:10]
danielpbarron	http://g.christianbook.com/dg/product/cbd/f400/146074.jpg << i think it's this one	[19:10]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BXYG3g )	[19:10]
danielpbarron	nope	[19:10]
danielpbarron	not as small as that ^ one	[19:10]
danielpbarron	that also has the "references" B.S. which I don't need -- I'd rather have the NKJV alternate transation footnotes	[19:11]
nubbins`	better ask News Corp, i guess	[19:12]
nubbins`	http://viewer.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/icv/page.php?book=arch._b_b.11&page=409	[19:13]
assbot	Arch. B b.11 - pages ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXZ9lZ )	[19:13]
nubbins`	^ check out the missing paragraph break, top right	[19:13]
danielpbarron	i don't understand what i'm looking at	[19:14]
nubbins`	http://bav.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/field/image/gutenberg_203r_0.png	[19:15]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1x9PRo6 )	[19:15]
nubbins`	that's what a paragraph break looks like	[19:15]
nubbins`	the red and blue ink were added afterward, by hand, and the printer left a blank space for them	[19:15]
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nubbins`	nicer embellishments by the rubricators meant a higher selling price	[19:16]
nubbins`	in the previous example, no such space was left for the number and the painted letter	[19:16]
nubbins`	so various solutions were used for various copies	[19:16]
nubbins`	that one's a particularly uh, embellished example	[19:16]
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nubbins`	"The "great majority of incunables did not issue from the press in a finished state ... hardly any incunable was considered 'finished' by its printer ...", suggesting that hand rubrication provided a sense of legitimacy to the efforts of early printers and their works."	[19:18]
danielpbarron	i don't need fancy thingys; just the whole NKJV text pocket sized with a zipper so the pages don't get messed up when i travel with it but w/e my KJV works well enough	[19:19]
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jurov	btw, i was always curious what is one supposed to do with the bible all the time?	[19:20]
jurov	i was like okay, read it like any other book	[19:21]
danielpbarron	sometimes in arguments people are like "oh yeah where does it say that!?"	[19:21]
nubbins`	jurov i think it's used more as a reference manual than a novel	[19:21]
ascii_field	... and there's also bibliomancy.	[19:22]
nubbins`	danielpbarron why not just get a similarly-sized NKJV and swap it out?	[19:22]
danielpbarron	i'm not sure one even exists	[19:22]
danielpbarron	i ordered what was described as "pocket sized" and it turned out to be much larger	[19:22]
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nubbins`	http://www.amazon.com/Smallest-Bible-NKJV-Black-Closing/dp/0840784465	[19:23]
assbot	The Smallest Bible (NKJV, Black, Snap Flap Closing): Thomas Nelson: 9780840784469: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9QMF9 )	[19:23]
jurov	from experience i surmised it's used to find accurate projection for inner turmoil	[19:23]
danielpbarron	yeah i've seen that one	[19:23]
nubbins`	not quite a zipper	[19:24]
jurov	scratch that accurate. any projection.	[19:24]
nubbins`	jurov what else ya gonna do w/ turmoil	[19:25]
jurov	nubbins`: esoteric/new age stuff is more soothing	[19:26]
nubbins`	enya doesn't have any answers	[19:26]
jurov	i did not say anything about answers	[19:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60900 @ 0.00028185 = 17.1647 BTC [-] {2}	[19:27]
jurov	they can be had by observation, not by projection anyway	[19:28]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[19:28]
jurov	!up ascii_field	[19:29]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:29]
*	nubbins` slow claps	[19:29]
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nubbins`	next you'll tell me that taking anti-anxiety meds won't help resolve deeply-rooted personal issues 8)	[19:30]
jurov	no, obv only bible can do it	[19:31]
danielpbarron	^ ++	[19:31]
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trinque	https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/a4658f4eccc8a8e6338a8711c0291706/tumblr_mmbfq0apsW1r92643o1_500.jpg	[19:32]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1BY28Ln )	[19:32]
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nubbins`	that is not how you make a secret compartment in a book.	[19:33]
trinque	nubbins`: along spine?	[19:35]
trinque	wasn't a proposal though :p	[19:35]
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nubbins`	you're supposed to soak the entire book block in water+glue, then press it til it's dried, then cut the hole out	[19:36]
trinque	ah, makes sense	[19:37]
nubbins`	https://img1.etsystatic.com/000/0/5215851/il_570xN.181912317.jpg	[19:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SC8S )	[19:38]
BingoBoingo	http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20150320/archer-heights/150-firefighters-battle-extra-alarm-fire-archer-heights-thursday	[19:38]
assbot	Huge Fire Breaks Out at Fire Extinguisher Factory in Archer Heights - Archer Heights - DNAinfo.com Chicago ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SExv )	[19:38]
nubbins`	or even better, http://www.instash.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Hollow-Book-Safe-With-Flask.jpg	[19:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1x9SCWr )	[19:38]
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trinque	!up brendafdez	[19:39]
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trinque	!up brendafdez	[19:39]
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trinque	brendafdez: might want to make sure your client auths before join	[19:40]
trinque	dunno if ddos is a problem anymore, but it has happened	[19:40]
brendafdez	trinque yes i never bothered to configure it properly	[19:41]
brendafdez	it still is, at least as of last week i got ddosed when entering the chan	[19:42]
trinque	bothering has its benefits	[19:42]
brendafdez	indeed	[19:42]
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trinque	!up mollison	[19:43]
*	assbot gives voice to mollison	[19:43]
nubbins`	man, this Roko's Basilisk is some straight-up bughouse stuff	[19:46]
trinque	nubbins`: ever read I have no Mouth and I Must Scream?	[19:48]
trinque	kind of reminds me of the AI in that	[19:48]
nubbins`	nope	[19:49]
nubbins`	i'll check it out	[19:49]
trinque	good story, not directly related	[19:49]
trinque	this idea that an exact duplicate of me is me seems absurd on its face	[19:51]
trinque	part of the basilisk thing	[19:51]
trinque	so you've got two hammers, and they're identical to the atom	[19:51]
trinque	their position is irrelevant to the question?	[19:51]
thestringpuller	brendafdez: what time is it in argentina rite meow	[19:52]
trinque	"Per Yudkowsky's conception of continuity of identity, copies of you in these branches should be considered to exist (and be you) — even though you cannot interact with them."	[19:52]
trinque	that sentence is so fucked	[19:52]
trinque	you cannot interact with you	[19:53]
trinque	but you are you	[19:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00028106 = 8.8534 BTC [-]	[19:53]
trinque	I took a look at less wrong a while ago, and decided I could find an easier fetish	[19:53]
Adlai	it's like saying that in The Prestige, whatsisname is a mass-murderer... he's not, he just fork()s	[19:54]
brendafdez	utc -3 1949	[19:54]
trinque	Adlai: so? I'm experiencing subjectivity, whatever the fuck that is, here and definitely not there	[19:55]
trinque	that there are an infinite number of copies of me with the same arrangement of atoms does not change that fact	[19:55]
nubbins`	^	[19:55]
trinque	and that thing is what I identify with, that my experience of being is right fucking here	[19:55]
jurov	someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar	[19:56]
nubbins`	heh	[19:56]
fluffypony	http://i.imgur.com/HAQJsaQ.jpg	[19:56]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Vi6q )	[19:56]
nubbins`	lel	[19:57]
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danielpbarron	the word you're looking for, trinque, is soul	[19:57]
trinque	danielpbarron: one way of putting it	[19:57]
trinque	and I think a better way than not considering it at all	[19:58]
trinque	danielpbarron: seems so many people try to argue themselves out of the obvious fact of their own being	[20:00]
trinque	dunno if I put that clearly at all	[20:00]
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trinque	there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea	[20:00]
danielpbarron	right	[20:01]
trinque	so if I change my thoughts about myself, I change?	[20:01]
trinque	no.	[20:01]
danielpbarron	you would necessarily die if chopped up into bits and uploaded	[20:01]
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danielpbarron	the thing on the other side would think it is you, but it wouldn't be you	[20:01]
trinque	it is hard for me to draw conclusions about that scenario because uploaded is not at all defined	[20:01]
trinque	but yeah, I am here, this, and now	[20:01]
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trinque	and no other imagined thing	[20:01]
trinque	and only to myself, I can't disclose that thing to anyone else	[20:02]
trinque	or to the religious, "himself before god" or something	[20:02]
danielpbarron	it's another tower of babel for man to think he can write a program to simulate his own brain better than it already is	[20:02]
trinque	hubris for sure	[20:02]
trinque	I like asciilifeform's mind amplifier concept	[20:03]
trinque	telescopes and so on, not some new created "being"	[20:04]
danielpbarron	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltY41KxzXY << LOL	[20:04]
assbot	OpenBSD: most secure OS in the planet, the movie! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9WjLO )	[20:04]
trinque	peaches oh my lol	[20:05]
Adlai	trinque: right. the child process sees itself when dereferencing 'self'	[20:07]
*	Adlai just finished the alpha version of his twist on actors/csp	[20:08]
trinque	Adlai: dunno how far the programming metaphor goes; explain?	[20:08]
trinque	I enjoyed that movie	[20:08]
jurov	if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?	[20:09]
*	trinque got really like, far out, man, one time and concluded that his language processing bits were not the only thing he is	[20:09]
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trinque	I do not think there's a verbal definition of being	[20:10]
trinque	can't grab it with that	[20:10]
nubbins`	no, but do enough lsd and you'll find a non-verbal definition	[20:10]
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trinque	nubbins`: right-o	[20:10]
nubbins`	dat ego death	[20:10]
nubbins`	fair warning, that's a one-way street 8)	[20:10]
Adlai	trinque: let's say harriezer has a 4d scanner, which he uses to capture the entire state of your brain, down to the atom. he then simulates twenty copies of this brain, each in its own simulated universe. even if you believe that there would now be 21 conscious trinques, the other twenty would be distinct from you. kinda like finding out about an identical twin that was separated from you at birth.	[20:11]
nubbins`	and much realer than rololol's basilisk	[20:11]
*	trinque recalls flopping around in front of a couch, saying to no one, "holy fuck, this is me!"	[20:11]
*	danielpbarron has done "enough lsd"	[20:11]
trinque	the flopping, lol	[20:11]
Adlai	in the prestige, the magician does pretty much exactly this with tesla's copy-teleport machine	[20:11]
nubbins`	Adlai not to mention that in the very next arbitrarily small slice of time, each of those 21 sets of atoms is now in a different state	[20:12]
trinque	Adlai: yeh agreed they are distinct	[20:12]
nubbins`	unless you're bringing quantum tunneling into it 8)	[20:12]
Adlai	nubbins`: actually, i'd maintain the same even if harriezer's simulators recreate exactly what happens to trinque's brain in real time	[20:12]
nubbins`	danielpbarron the concept of "enough" varies from person to person!	[20:12]
nubbins`	nod	[20:13]
Adlai	whether the identical programs on identical hardware ever read from /dev/random is another matter	[20:13]
Adlai	but either way, they're still separate instances	[20:13]
Adlai	even if their 'state' is identical	[20:13]
*	assbot removes voice from mollison	[20:13]
nubbins`	if you accept the multiverse as an axiom, there are already infinitely many copies of the universe in which the entirety of states that the atoms of your brain will ever arrange themselves in are precisely identical	[20:13]
nubbins`	Adlai they're fungible!	[20:14]
Adlai	yes. in such a multiverse, there are an infinite number of identical 'people', but each one thinks of itself as itself. the others are fungible, but the self is unique.	[20:14]
trinque	I'd just ask Yudkowski "how are all of you feeling today?"	[20:15]
trinque	he can't answer that	[20:15]
trinque	knows he's full of shit	[20:15]
trinque	it's barely worth considering	[20:15]
trinque	no subjective experience can travel across his abstact bridge	[20:15]
trinque	*abstract	[20:15]
Adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061016 << let's analogize that to http://www.legiontheory.com/	[20:16]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:04:33; jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?	[20:16]
assbot	Legion Theory ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Yb7c )	[20:16]
trinque	Adlai: dennett went down that road too as I recall	[20:17]
trinque	the "pandemonium model" of mind?	[20:17]
Adlai	yes, and feral neurons	[20:17]
Adlai	http://www.meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-wild/	[20:17]
assbot	Neurons Gone Wild \| Melting Asphalt ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Yjne )	[20:17]
trinque	still in my experience there is a distinction between that which is thought and the singular experience of observing that	[20:18]
Adlai	sorry, dennett himself is at http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind	[20:18]
assbot	THE NORMAL WELL-TEMPERED MIND \| Edge.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9Ynn2 )	[20:18]
trinque	thoughts do seem to all compete for attention	[20:18]
trinque	attention seems like one thing	[20:18]
Adlai	you've never had a thought spring fully-formed into your mind ?	[20:18]
trinque	certainly	[20:18]
trinque	what you're calling "your mind" I'm calling attention	[20:19]
trinque	the observer	[20:19]
Adlai	sure	[20:19]
trinque	probably danielpbarron's soul	[20:19]
jurov	lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself"	[20:19]
trinque	jurov: heh!!!	[20:20]
Adlai	cf https://xkcd.com/1489/	[20:20]
assbot	xkcd: Fundamental Forces ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRP7rs )	[20:20]
Adlai	specifically, "Of these four forces, there's one we don't really understand." "Is it the weak force or the strong--" "It's gravity."	[20:20]
jurov	and where thoughts come from... brain is dreaming all the time, there are easy exercises to access this stream at any time	[20:21]
jurov	plus there is some pattern matching mechanism between tdreaming and external stimuli	[20:22]
jurov	to choose what is being processed further and verbalised	[20:22]
trinque	jurov: had the thought once in meditation that I was always... hm... thinking everything I've ever experienced all the time	[20:22]
Adlai	someone (iirc dennett) lamented that everybody has their own theory of consciousness, as though this was a bad thing!	[20:23]
jurov	i've tracked myself many thoughts back to that dream form	[20:23]
*	Adlai doesn't (yet) see any use to the theory of consciousness beyond discussing it	[20:23]
trinque	that is certainly so	[20:23]
*	trinque steps back from the lsd flashback, gets another beer	[20:24]
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jurov	at least my theory is useful in practice. just close eyes and watch what's happening, no need to be bored ever again	[20:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90000 @ 0.00028424 = 25.5816 BTC [+] {2}	[20:25]
trinque	jurov: also good to review whatever's slipped in there while one's distracted	[20:25]
Adlai	note that you can actually get cevs by doing just this, if you can keep your eyeballs from moving for ~5 minutes	[20:26]
jurov	it's pointedly nota mediatation in "think of something that is nothing" sense	[20:26]
danielpbarron	Adlai> note that you can actually get cevs by doing just this, if you can keep your eyeballs from moving for ~5 minutes << i used to do this when getting lecured by my mother as a child	[20:26]
Adlai	ahahaa	[20:26]
jurov	what's cev?	[20:26]
danielpbarron	OEV though	[20:26]
Adlai	closed-eye visions	[20:27]
trinque	man when I was a kid, I'd have bizarre dreams	[20:27]
Adlai	or visuals	[20:27]
trinque	had one where I asked god what it meant to not exist	[20:27]
trinque	at around 7	[20:27]
Adlai	http://psychedelicfrontier.com/perception-scope-how-conjure-open-eye-visuals/	[20:28]
assbot	The Perception Scope: How to Conjure Open-eye Visuals at Will - Psychedelic Frontier ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRQoyL )	[20:28]
trinque	lots of others involving apolcalyptic subjects	[20:28]
trinque	the scenarios the mind can simulate... I'd like a pill someday that causes lucid dreaming	[20:28]
nubbins`	train yourself for it	[20:29]
nubbins`	take melatonin, and every time you touch a doorknob or a light switch in waking life, ask yourself "am i dreaming?"	[20:29]
trinque	I run a business, too reactionary atm	[20:29]
trinque	if I fall asleep at all I'm good	[20:29]
nubbins`	eventually the habit will cross over	[20:29]
Adlai	the idea is to build a habit of doubting whether you're awake	[20:30]
nubbins`	and you'll find your dream-self holding a doorknob wondering if you're dreaming	[20:30]
trinque	I'll try it out	[20:30]
nubbins`	i had a roomie who did this with moderate success	[20:30]
jurov	i'm all for moderation. not immerse yourself in it, just be aware of the stream	[20:30]
Adlai	https://medium.com/@Grayfox/the-hacker-who-drank-ayahuasca-517148aa1ed4	[20:31]
assbot	The Hacker Who Drank Ayahuasca — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9ZROf )	[20:31]
nubbins`	jurov classic explanation of LSD action is that it removes the filters that your brain normally automatically applies to that stream	[20:31]
trinque	Adlai: that one's on the list for when I can take a long enough vacation	[20:31]
jurov	s/automatic/learned	[20:31]
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trinque	2c-e was a hell of a journey once upon a time	[20:32]
trinque	seems like it messed with whatever simulates the world visually in the brain	[20:32]
trinque	found thoughts escaping out into the things I was seeing around me	[20:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48133 @ 0.00028538 = 13.7362 BTC [+] {2}	[20:32]
trinque	that kind of thing	[20:33]
Adlai	literally, psychedelic = manifesting the mind	[20:33]
trinque	ah, there you go	[20:33]
nubbins`	jurov ooh, i like that, +1	[20:33]
trinque	shapes would form in front of me that corresponded to concepts, or so it seemed	[20:33]
jurov	lol you insist on psychedelic and whatnot. i'm about normal brain function	[20:33]
jurov	this: http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm	[20:34]
assbot	Project Renaissance, Image-Streaming ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa0bMV )	[20:34]
trinque	it is probably utterly american of me to desire the right technology to experience such things	[20:34]
Adlai	not really insisting, but the wagon is not moderate	[20:34]
jurov	"Contrary to recent general belief, virtually every human can quickly and readily learn to "get pictures" in his mind's eye, thus becoming able to do visual thinking."	[20:34]
trinque	as opposed to the right practice	[20:34]
jurov	heh technique. can't get any simpler than trying to describe what comes to mind	[20:35]
trinque	jurov: hm, seems just like what one does telling a story to another	[20:36]
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jurov	when you're telling a story you're doing it to some purpose	[20:39]
jurov	this is describing whatever is happening in the brain	[20:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73620 @ 0.00028779 = 21.1871 BTC [+] {4}	[20:44]
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asciilifeform	the whole 'copy isn't you' thing is pure unadulterated vitalism, however.	[20:49]
asciilifeform	it is no accident, incidentally, that chemistry went nowhere until vitalism was banished from it	[20:50]
asciilifeform	and physics ground to a screeching halt when bohr reintroduced it to physics	[20:50]
asciilifeform	the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question'	[20:50]
asciilifeform	(while you read this paragraph, it is quite likely that at least one of your neurons died. and wasn't even replaced with a copyable mechanical one, at that. are you 'still you' ? and moreover, do you find the question itself interesting, or the answer being something that matters ?)	[20:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108718 @ 0.00029139 = 31.6793 BTC [+] {2}	[20:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25632 @ 0.00029821 = 7.6437 BTC [+]	[20:55]
nubbins`	re: neurons gone wild	[20:56]
Adlai	well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying	[20:56]
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nubbins`	you apparently see at comic-con type events a lot of people who have an "other self"	[20:56]
nubbins`	generally some sort of furry	[20:56]
Adlai	http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/brain_basics/ninds_neuron.htm#death	[20:56]
assbot	The Life and Death of a Neuron: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3gMN )	[20:56]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: to find people with 'more than one self' you generally have to visit more than one asylum	[20:57]
*	assbot gives voice to bitstein	[20:57]
asciilifeform	(most 'multiple personality' cases are really just schizophrenics playing games. ask a specialist)	[20:57]
Adlai	ah, that word again	[20:57]
nubbins`	8)	[20:57]
trinque	asciilifeform: well yeah, I think defining self is meaningless	[20:57]
trinque	but saying that is distinct from saying it doesn't exist	[20:57]
trinque	can I tell you what it feels like for me to type this?	[20:57]
nubbins`	asciilifeform i published an (embellished) bio of a man with schizophrenia	[20:58]
Adlai	most people roleplaying at conventions aren't even as 'dissociated' as a good method actor	[20:58]
nubbins`	*autobio	[20:58]
trinque	there's an experience happening over here, and it has an extent	[20:58]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: yeah i recall the thread	[20:58]
trinque	the extent of that experience will not expand when you duplicate me	[20:58]
Adlai	and it's a stretch to say that professional actors are schizophrenic, although many of them do seem to fear zoltan	[20:58]
nubbins`	there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer	[20:58]
nubbins`	but it's really just runaway thoughts	[20:58]
nubbins`	coupled with hypothetical "suppose this strawman was ME" type clauses	[20:59]
trinque	now hell, "you"	[20:59]
trinque	you is a broken concept for sure	[20:59]
asciilifeform	trinque: you say this, and so will the copy	[20:59]
trinque	asciilifeform: right, indistinguishable to you	[20:59]
asciilifeform	and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot	[20:59]
trinque	however a copy of you would be distinguishable to you	[20:59]
asciilifeform	which me	[20:59]
asciilifeform	l0l	[20:59]
trinque	doesn't matter	[20:59]
Adlai	http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/15/answer-to-job/	[20:59]
trinque	each is distinct to itself	[20:59]
assbot	Answer to Job \| Slate Star Codex ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3DqR )	[20:59]
nubbins`	"which do i shoot" "either or, but not both"	[20:59]
trinque	asciilifeform: seems like you're thinking from an imaginary 3rd person perspective	[21:00]
trinque	all that matters to whichever me is me, is uh... me	[21:00]
trinque	lol	[21:00]
asciilifeform	but unless you posit some bit of of shamanism that distinguishes the original and is somehow copy-protected, the copying -happened-	[21:00]
trinque	talking at crossways I think	[21:00]
trinque	one's talking about identity, the other being	[21:00]
asciilifeform	(typically shaman says that no such thing as the copy could even be attempted, because the gods will drop a piano on your head.)	[21:00]
*	asciilifeform does not find ^ a very interesting hypothesis	[21:01]
nubbins`	copout	[21:01]
Adlai	in zindell's scifi, their best tech for copying - renders the organ being copied incapable of supporting further consciousness	[21:01]
Adlai	(functions as a plot element, not a copout)	[21:01]
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trinque	asciilifeform: I began criticizing the idea that all of the infinite me's are to be considered as though they are the me driving the keyboard	[21:03]
trinque	whether they are the same to you doesn't matter at all to me	[21:03]
trinque	I will still strive to be the one not capped by the 45	[21:03]
trinque	:p	[21:03]
asciilifeform	again using this word that no longer has a correct meaning in the hypothetical system	[21:03]
asciilifeform	'me'	[21:03]
trinque	I disagree entirely	[21:03]
asciilifeform	so shaman?	[21:03]
trinque	that I am sitting here having this experience defines "me" sufficiently for me to use it	[21:04]
trinque	if it doesn't for you, who cares?	[21:04]
asciilifeform	i might care, when it's my turn to argue with my copy about who should be shot	[21:04]
asciilifeform	but yet again this sentence is an abuse of word.	[21:04]
*	OneNomos has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[21:05]
asciilifeform	re: teleporter: there were actually people who refused to travel on steam locomotives because the soul can't keep up and will get lost	[21:05]
asciilifeform	or somesuch	[21:05]
asciilifeform	for some reason you don't meet terribly many folks today who won't ride, e.g., an airplane, for this reason	[21:06]
asciilifeform	even among the devoutly religious	[21:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 164 @ 0.0145 = 2.378 BTC [+]	[21:06]
nubbins`	except the guys w/ the plastic bags	[21:06]
Adlai	the meaning of 'me' which is consistent in this system is: "the thing which you perceive yourself as communicating with"	[21:06]
asciilifeform	wai wat	[21:06]
trinque	times in the past I have had cluster headaches	[21:07]
trinque	caused by various head injuries over the years	[21:07]
trinque	in the midst of that level of pain no one ever questions where he begins and where he ends	[21:07]
trinque	stab the clone and nothing here happens	[21:07]
trinque	who cares about the clone	[21:07]
asciilifeform	trinque: you're 'dividing by zero' just by thinking about this	[21:08]
asciilifeform	just as the rest of us do.	[21:08]
nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/3GHvrdn.jpg	[21:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1HbMTiV )	[21:08]
trinque	nubbins`: lol	[21:08]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: what is pictured here ?	[21:08]
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asciilifeform	contagious patient ?	[21:08]
Adlai	orthodox jew in a fullbody condom	[21:08]
asciilifeform	l0l	[21:09]
*	assbot gives voice to Pierre_Rochard	[21:09]
asciilifeform	Adlai: what is the logic behind the condom ?	[21:09]
Adlai	probably to prevent physical contact with female flight attendants	[21:09]
nubbins`	asciilifeform apparently some hasidic jews feel they are not permitted to fly over cemeteries	[21:09]
jurov	i'd fuck myself. we'd only have to resort to reading /dev/random about who goes first.	[21:09]
nubbins`	the airport in tel aviv is surrounded by cemeteries	[21:09]
asciilifeform	but the plastic in the fuselage is not sufficient barrier ?	[21:09]
trinque	the bag was blessed maybe	[21:09]
nubbins`	this man is -- no joke -- protecting himself from w/e by completely enclosing himself in a plastic bag.	[21:09]
asciilifeform	why not bless the floor tiles ?	[21:09]
asciilifeform	for the whole lot of passengers	[21:10]
asciilifeform	charge extra	[21:10]
Adlai	there's a sub-race (seriously, they consider themselves a separate tribe-within-the-tribe) who are not allowed to / don't enter cemeteries	[21:10]
asciilifeform	while alive, presumably ?	[21:10]
asciilifeform	who, cohanim ?	[21:10]
nubbins`	yes	[21:10]
Adlai	yes. in the idf, when we had guided tours of mt hertzl (big military cemetary), they always asked before entering if there were any of them present	[21:10]
Adlai	lest one accidentally trespass	[21:10]
nubbins`	"Kohenim are prohibited from coming into contact with dead bodies, and many rabbis have taken the strict opinion that a Kohen may not ride in a plane if he knows ahead of time that it will fly directly over a Jewish cemetery."	[21:10]
asciilifeform	is it considered a score against the cemetary, or the kohen ?	[21:11]
trinque	ultimate trolls, whoever thinks up these rules	[21:11]
*	Adlai actually thought the officer was kidding, the first time this happened	[21:11]
nubbins`	"The man wrapped in plastic, whose photograph first appeared on the Redditor site and later on the Gothamist site, apparently did not want to take any chances. By covering himself in plastic, he established a separation between him and impurities."	[21:11]
bitstein	Yea, I remember when I was on my birthright trip, my friend stayed behind when we visited Mt Hertzl.	[21:11]
*	nubbins` rolls eyes	[21:11]
*	trinque heads home, enjoyed the philosophical bullshit session	[21:11]
Adlai	in the case of the army - it would be a terrible failure for the officer to let such a thing happen!	[21:11]
nubbins`	examine the utter failure of logic by this man	[21:12]
nubbins`	srsly, a fucking /plastic bag/.	[21:12]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i think they grade themselves 'for effort.' consider the rope	[21:12]
nubbins`	asciilifeform precisely this	[21:12]
nubbins`	RCs are no different	[21:12]
asciilifeform	'eruv' (Adlai: correct transliteration if off)	[21:12]
jurov	i'd ask them, what if there's a cemetery below him in australia?	[21:13]
*	Adlai only has distant secondhand knowledge of orthodox theology	[21:13]
asciilifeform	jurov: follow the logic. they don't care if there is a sea burial going on underneath, or a shipwreck with skeletons	[21:13]
asciilifeform	because 'graded for effort'	[21:13]
asciilifeform	and there isn't really a good effort they could make to demonstrate a desire to avoid those	[21:13]
jurov	dunno if i could resist to troll them with a bone	[21:14]
nubbins`	gl explaining that to security	[21:14]
asciilifeform	!s pig burial	[21:14]
Adlai	what i do know is that one guy took cold showers on the sabbath, because if he opened the hot water tap, it might trigger the thermostat in the base's boiler	[21:14]
assbot	3 results for 'pig burial' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pig+burial	[21:14]
Adlai	emphasis on "might", didn't help to point out that the boiler basically works 24/7 and still doesn't keep up	[21:15]
nubbins`	which ender's game book was it where they created a race of smart people genetically predisposed to OCD?	[21:16]
Adlai	either xenocide or children of the mind	[21:16]
jurov	good that unlike jooz, we have danielpbarron that knows exactly what the letters say	[21:16]
nubbins`	yeah. reminds me of that in some ways	[21:16]
Adlai	(which were supposed to be one book, but eventually didn't 'fit in head')	[21:16]
nubbins`	i got through about 7 of those books before giving up	[21:17]
*	Adlai just read the first 4. regrets seeing the movie.	[21:17]
nubbins`	just earth geopolitics after a while	[21:17]
Adlai	you know, the ones that actually have a plot	[21:17]
danielpbarron	http://www.atruechurch.info/sabbath.html Those who totally stop every work of their own righteousness (Psalm 16:2; Romans 4:5, "does not work"), and believe on Him who justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5), these are those who fulfill the law (Romans 8:4) and keep a perpetual Sabbath (Hebrews 4:3-4, 9-10).	[21:17]
assbot	A True Church - The Sabbath ... ( http://bit.ly/1HbPrxv )	[21:17]
nubbins`	ender's shadow is nb if you haven't read it	[21:17]
nubbins`	ender's game from bean's pov	[21:17]
Adlai	right. ender's game's plot, with different words. it doesn't have its own plot, and i need a few decades before i can read this author again, after children of the mind	[21:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00029872 = 12.367 BTC [+] {3}	[21:19]
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nubbins`	that's sorta the last one i enjoyed	[21:20]
Adlai	children, or shadow?	[21:20]
nubbins`	children of mind	[21:20]
*	Adlai enjoyed it too, but it was just too long	[21:21]
nubbins`	speaker for the dead and xenocide were the height	[21:21]
Adlai	read it back when i had 4-5 hours of daily reading time in middle school	[21:21]
nubbins`	i read an enormous amount of fiction in uni	[21:22]
nubbins`	1000 pages a week at times	[21:22]
Adlai	extracurricular?	[21:22]
nubbins`	for lels, yeah	[21:22]
nubbins`	not much required reading for a cs/math joint major	[21:22]
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nubbins`	did 1 english course (2 req'd for b.sc., did AP english in hs)	[21:23]
nubbins`	24yo nubs was not impressed w/ having to take 1000-level english course with 18y/o's	[21:23]
nubbins`	skipped 4 consecutive weeks of classes mid-semester, came out w/ an 88 and a letter from the faculty pleading me to change majors	[21:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00028926 = 1.4174 BTC [-]	[21:30]
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asciilifeform	http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RlLqY7OJqUAJ:www.lunsfordnet.com/get/pdf/2595+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us	[21:36]
assbot	Transition Dreams by Greg Egan "We can't tell you what your own transition dreams will be. The only thing that's certain is ... ( http://bit.ly/1HbTOsz )	[21:36]
asciilifeform	^ re: brain copies	[21:36]
asciilifeform	w4r3z cache	[21:37]
trinque	excellent story	[21:37]
trinque	I should read more Egan	[21:37]
trinque	luminous is sitting a few feet away	[21:38]
Adlai	nubbins`: 'english' = literature \| composition ?	[21:40]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: you may appreciate this thought. So I like XC running, so I just like to run to work out. At some point it's like your body is heating up like a GPU trying to run a video game (hence sweat). So I've always thought of exercising as our bodies running "tough programs". lol	[21:40]
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nubbins`	Adlai a mix of both	[21:52]
nubbins`	thestringpuller have you ever thought of eating a large quantity of muscle meat as running a tough program? 8)	[21:53]
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thestringpuller	^- da pun is strong with you today	[21:54]
jurov	yes, on such meat branch prediction and caching fail all the time	[21:56]
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nubbins`	lel	[22:02]
nubbins`	core dump	[22:03]
thestringpuller	on eulora?	[22:03]
*	dEBRUYNE (~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:04]
nubbins`	more meat program puns	[22:04]
nubbins`	srs tho, takes it outta ya	[22:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35600 @ 0.0002953 = 10.5127 BTC [+]	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	!up dEBRUYNE	[22:22]
-assbot-	You voiced dEBRUYNE for 30 minutes.	[22:22]
*	assbot gives voice to dEBRUYNE	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	http://baexpats.org/topic/33079-wild-cat-in-back-yard/ << misfortunate cat meets insane gringo	[22:23]
assbot	Wild Cat In Back Yard - Expat Life - Buenos Aires Expats Group ... ( http://bit.ly/18OtOYN )	[22:23]
asciilifeform	how even found this.	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	i > google!	[22:26]
*	asciilifeform if had to choose who to render for fat, the animal or the 'man' from the link, would choose the latter without hesitation	[22:27]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	note that it's not even a wild cat.	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	which would have hopefully killed him.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	aha. we have idiots like this here	[22:29]
asciilifeform	who brutally murder any tame animal unfortunate enough to be let out for a walk	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	"gee, i wonder why the poor cat isn't scaling the wall after being sprayer with permethrin and not being fed for a week"	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	"could a rope and an open can of tuna solve this problem ? naaah, best call the plumber!"	[22:31]
asciilifeform	i would greatly enjoy putting the author of the post in the very similar situation.	[22:34]
asciilifeform	dosage adjusted as necessary.	[22:34]
asciilifeform	and i'm not even a zoophiliac.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	me either	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	but i guess it's because we're sociopaths, aka, idiot-intolerant.	[22:36]
asciilifeform	but some 'people' really -are- the 'planetary cancer'' imagined by enviro-whiners. as in, the actual core of truth behind the myth.	[22:36]
*	assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol	[22:36]
asciilifeform	as in, there can be very few things more noble than killing them, slowly, and with cameras rolling for posterity.	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	exactly. my objection isn't particularly that the cat got hurt as much as it is the guy didn't.	[22:36]
asciilifeform	the beasts fight one another even without idiot man (i know this well enough from watching the wild cats in own yard)	[22:37]
asciilifeform	though i've yet to find a carcass	[22:37]
asciilifeform	presumably they keel over somewhere else, in a designated place	[22:37]
danielpbarron	where does he move from that doesn't have cats? how did he figure out how to move??	[22:37]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: in some parts of usa suburbia, animals found wandering outdoors are mercilessly caught and soap van	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	actually i used to know, many years ago, an old, 2/3 tailless , earless, blind tomcat.	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	i guess he was an anarchist cat.	[22:39]
asciilifeform	how does beast with these handicaps stay afloat ?	[22:39]
asciilifeform	was fed ?	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	well i fed it ocasionally.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	i imagine plenty of people liked it.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	actually hanbot used to feed chicken livers to this blind dog that had a helper tripod dog (one limb cut off, prolly in tram accident).	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	they made quite the team.	[22:40]
danielpbarron	i got bit by a feral cat and freaked out less than this guy; didn't go to doctor even	[22:40]
asciilifeform	we have a tailless one here, and a very ancient skeletal one, both fed	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	anyway, animals do have all sorts of arrangements.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	at least in principle. creatures of habit.	[22:41]
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*	asciilifeform is experiencing almost a kind of synaesthesia. that post -stinks-, just about literally, of american degeneracy. smells kinda like 'mcdonalds'	[22:43]
nubbins`	the guy sprayed a can of raid in a cat's face?	[22:44]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: cholinesterase inhibitors work on everybody. just different potencies.	[22:44]
nubbins`	is relieving him of his skin before he gets sent to the salt mines an option?	[22:44]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: in the lab i worked at, permethrin was used as a substitute for sarin (the building was not rated for the latter, needs airlocks, etc)	[22:45]
asciilifeform	or not permethrin	[22:45]
asciilifeform	what was it	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	permethrin is this contact insecticide that is well tolerated by mammals,	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	except notably for cats.	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	i was just filling in the gaps, dunno wtf he actually used,	[22:47]
*	asciilifeform forgot precisely what. but leafing through old crap reveals that permethrin is not anticholinergic. so couldn't have been it	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	but in context this'd be a reasonable expectation.	[22:47]
asciilifeform	at any rate, i enjoy the picture that one day the correct gas may be found for the degenerate.	[22:48]
nubbins`	actually yeah permethrin+cats, i remember that one	[22:50]
asciilifeform	a specifically 'civilized' kind of degeneracy on exhibit here	[22:50]
nubbins`	permethrin woulda been great for my hammock when i went to colombia ;/	[22:50]
nubbins`	nod	[22:50]
nubbins`	"a strange happened so i badded it"	[22:50]
asciilifeform	tries to exercise a delusion of control over his environment via the only means he knows how - by smearing his surroundings, and if you let him - entire planets - with his shit	[22:51]
asciilifeform	and having the temerity to whine if a white spot remains	[22:51]
*	assbot removes voice from dEBRUYNE	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	"a strange happened so i badded it" << quite.	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	people go all berserk about milgram experiment.	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	bs. the problem there isn't anything to do with "people". dependent cattle behave outrageously if taken outside of their pens.	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	that's the long and the short of it. has nothing to do with people.	[22:57]
asciilifeform	^	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	the word for this can be "civilised", but it just as well be "fucking stupid".	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	"o look, the usual crutches i use to hide my idiocy don't work, now it's nude on display".	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	"well... that'd be because you're an idiot."	[22:58]
asciilifeform	civilized.	[22:58]
asciilifeform	is the correct word.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	we don't agree. slavegirls are civilised.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	these schmucks are just brainwashed.	[22:58]
asciilifeform	then possibly needs word	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	there IS a difference.	[22:58]
asciilifeform	but it goes as closely with civilization as lead poisoning.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	so what if it does. tb goes with pallor, we don't call one the other.	[22:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.0002943 = 7.1809 BTC [-]	[22:59]
asciilifeform	to rephrase - i'm not certain that anyone knows how to 'civilization' without producing more of this material than anyone knows how to pour into concrete and bury	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	i am quite certain at least someone does.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	it starts with "you will be beaten daily until you know how this works"	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to "this is ~how we use this~."	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	one's civilisational, the other's brainwashing.	[23:00]
asciilifeform	incidentally, notice how english speakers use word 'training' outside of the context of spinal reflex (sport)	[23:01]
asciilifeform	it refers to precisely 'this is how we use'	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	yup.	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	directly anticultural, and through that mediation, civilisation-destroying.	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	tries to exercise a delusion of control over his environment via the only means he knows how - by smearing his surroundings, and if you let him - entire planets - with his shit << this, is, fundamentally, "social media", as the recent maddox link amply explains.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	or the one before that. or i suppose most of his links.	[23:04]
scoopbot	New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/bitbet-history/	[23:05]
asciilifeform	the head of cattle, taught by d3m0cr4cy111!!111!1 that he ought to have some kind of control over his stall, goes apeshit outside.	[23:06]
asciilifeform	because now whole universe 'is' his stall	[23:07]
asciilifeform	but this is a trivial observation.	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	so it is.	[23:07]
asciilifeform	but the less trivial one is that there no such thing as ownerless cattle	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	this is not directl yobvious.	[23:07]
asciilifeform	even an ox wandering loose in mumbai (the locals call'em 'brakes inspectors' on the road) - has owner	[23:07]
asciilifeform	(the crown, who will go after me if i show up with a rifle and a kebeb grill ready to go)	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	that's your owner, not the ox's.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	you will not be on trial for ox damaging, but for human misbehaving.	[23:08]
asciilifeform	possibly some mix (i can think of a situation where it is precisely about ox damage)	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	similarly in the recently invented "sex tourism" trials, you're not on trial for there bering a fgucked 12yo in thailand, but for there being a usian citizen that had some fun.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if it were about ox damage it'd be a fine.	[23:09]
asciilifeform	well there, certainly. but i'd argue that usg implicitly takes ownership of the wild things here	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	only as a result of having taken ownserhip of teh citizenry.	[23:10]
asciilifeform	in that if obamitler wished, he could hunt the last panda, or fuck 12yo thai	[23:10]
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mircea_popescu	of course. because he's not a citizen.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	how did that inept quote go, "citizens ask for permission."	[23:10]
asciilifeform	-subjects-	[23:10]
asciilifeform	it went 'subjects as for permission, citizens something-or-other	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile somewhere else, http://40.media.tumblr.com/afd55aa5ad081e1c989b2a34a160cfeb/tumblr_mrn8l7cs7t1rmm9buo1_1280.jpg	[23:10]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FOpnKN )	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nah, believe it or not it didn't. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2015#1055604	[23:11]
assbot	Logged on 17-03-2015 19:25:54; mircea_popescu: "Citizens ask for permission, expats ask for forgiveness" << maybe he should ask for a nailgun.	[23:11]
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asciilifeform	l0l!	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` hey, what;d you cost to make qntra business cards for a dozen ppl and ship em ?	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	same design, name/surname, nick, gpg key on one side, qntra this that on the other ?	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060974 << guy does not actually understand anything.	[23:13]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 22:48:21; trinque: you cannot interact with you	[23:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61400 @ 0.00028516 = 17.5088 BTC [-] {2}	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	he, superficially, has an autodidact's understanding of the basics. that means they are subtly broken. he then proceeds from there, and errors compound.	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	soon enough he's holding a nonsense.	[23:14]
mircea_popescu	kinda why people go to school : so they can be in the company of their betters (something us kids have serious mental issues with) where they can create this sort of braindamage, be bullied for it, fix it, and so end up sane.	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060984 << penis better. especially if itends up larger.	[23:16]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 22:51:23; jurov: someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar	[23:16]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu say 600 bezzlars for a dozen people to get 250 cards each, design + shipping at actual cost	[23:18]
nubbins`	(hand-printed bizniss cards for $50 per head, you say?!)	[23:18]
nubbins`	contrast the economy of scale here to alf's $200 book ;(	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	i can go for that as a qntra perk. you gonna be willing to keep the design and make more of the same if these folks run out / for new folks ?	[23:21]
nubbins`	we index all our graphics & films, totally	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	cool. so submit a nice design.	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen.	[23:22]
nubbins`	any of the above who have particular ideas about how they want their cards to NOT look, best speak up	[23:22]
danielpbarron	i like simple / white background black text sorta thing	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` : name/surname ; nick ; gpg/gpg on one face, dunno exactly what should be for qntra on the other.	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	i guess it's time to come up with a byline for it hm.	[23:24]
nubbins`	bunny rabbit	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	you think ? pics usually make cards look cheap	[23:24]
danielpbarron	^ ++	[23:24]
nubbins`	lel, i kid	[23:24]
danielpbarron	i literally have a crate of business cards saved up	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	later tell bingoboingo here is your very helpful trigger : ^	[23:25]
danielpbarron	i collect the things	[23:25]
*	mircea_popescu pictures danielpbarron doing that thing with the cards in american psycho	[23:25]
nubbins`	i actually need to print more for myself	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell bingoboingo here is your very helpful trigger : ^	[23:26]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[23:26]
danielpbarron	i don't think i've seen that movie	[23:26]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu i never understood the concept of a "paper erection" until i got into this biz, ya know	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	christian slater is almost hot.	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	but the film could definitely have done with a lot more and a lot better nudity.	[23:26]
nubbins`	now it's all flared nostrils & running fingertips over things	[23:26]
danielpbarron	oh yeah, not some weird non-standard shape / fold-out w/e	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	a showgirls style casual nudity meets american psycho casual psychopathology would rock.	[23:27]
nubbins`	fold-outs 0/10 would not do	[23:27]
danielpbarron	good.	[23:27]
nubbins`	maybe black paper	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` noteven for ronald mc donald / gavin mcsatoshi / etc ?	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	ah, my gold on black cards look awesome.	[23:27]
nubbins`	puzzle or word search on the back maybe	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	course, not so easy to pull it off, need just the right kinda asshole.	[23:27]
nubbins`	we did some gold on black recently	[23:27]
nubbins`	not sure if i have pics handy, but i know there's a couple cards downstairs	[23:28]
nubbins`	actually, bird book has gold on black as well	[23:28]
nubbins`	!s plough	[23:28]
assbot	7 results for 'plough' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=plough	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	hired another lawyer the other day, left him my card, then when we met socially later he was like... well the office tried to figure out wtf. first we thought those must be like mail codes of your country. but then that didn't make sense. so susie said you must be in porn.	[23:28]
nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/pxZ4arA.jpg	[23:29]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FOuR8e )	[23:29]
nubbins`	not quite the best shot to show it off, but yknow	[23:29]
nubbins`	looks ballin	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` that gold looks more like bronze	[23:29]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not a gpg-enabled lawyer, i take it	[23:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.0002943 = 3.1343 BTC [+]	[23:29]
nubbins`	that's actually a pure gold base w/ some orange pigment added	[23:29]
nubbins`	good eye on ya 8)	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	o gawd, looking for stuff I r find... http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/extradited-by-my-rubber-ducklings.html	[23:30]
assbot	Print Page - MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOv8bb )	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not at that time.	[23:30]
asciilifeform	who was it who had the steel businesscards.	[23:33]
nubbins`	gross	[23:33]
nubbins`	why not glitter?	[23:34]
asciilifeform	nono	[23:34]
nubbins`	or nettles	[23:34]
asciilifeform	with actual cutouts. massive co2 laser.	[23:34]
nubbins`	what am i gonna do with a steel business card	[23:34]
asciilifeform	http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--ryw4r_eG--/18s0bpicjpxufjpg.jpg	[23:34]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FOwkvg )	[23:35]
asciilifeform	^ this possibly	[23:35]
nubbins`	HA	[23:35]
nubbins`	ok, fair enough	[23:36]
nubbins`	s.nsa cards w/ cardano pcb traces silkscreened in copper ink	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	you know, there's this legend that actually happened of romanian mobster that got shot coming out of a restaurant	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	except he was shotwith a .38 and he was carring money. so it didn't go through.	[23:36]
nubbins`	50% transparent mask layer on top	[23:36]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: i drew a pcb card for mircea_popescu half-seriously	[23:37]
mircea_popescu	so... have a buncha steel business cards, make your own armor	[23:37]
asciilifeform	(it's linked in a comment on his site iirc)	[23:37]
nubbins`	it'd work	[23:37]
asciilifeform	!s ppsh	[23:37]
mircea_popescu	it did work. bullet didn't even make it through the whole ~200 leaves.	[23:37]
assbot	3 results for 'ppsh' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ppsh	[23:37]
mircea_popescu	polymer banknotes.	[23:37]
nubbins`	asciilifeform the only material difference between one and the other is the substrate	[23:38]
*	asciilifeform trying to find ancient thread re: drunken red army folks having a duel with submachineguns and blocked by greatcoats	[23:38]
*	asciilifeform then remembered that the legend featured american 'thompson' brought on lend-lease	[23:38]
asciilifeform	http://www.quicksprout.com/images/businesscards/officedesk.jpg	[23:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1FOxuXC )	[23:40]
asciilifeform	or simply picture a card with btc privkey	[23:41]
asciilifeform	(funded just a bit)	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if i remember correctly, usg is on record saying they lack the ability to input a printed gpg privkey.	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	was in some court case or other during the great assault on private email providers of 2012-2013	[23:42]
asciilifeform	iirc it was 'not sop therefore chew for us and feed into mouth or else'	[23:42]
asciilifeform	lavabit case	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	a yes.	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	that had me for a chuckle, you know ? "too lazy to type it in, it's like characters and shit"	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	then on the other line alf was going nuts about kbd emanations good for 20 meters even!	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1060994 << this is more of an infantilism than a defect.	[23:44]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 22:56:06; trinque: there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea	[23:44]
asciilifeform	let's have gedankenexperiment (is trinque still awake ?)	[23:45]
nubbins`	was he ever :0	[23:46]
asciilifeform	suppose a man were disassembled into components, sorted by atomic mass. then, next day, reassembled. answer - a) this cannot be done for Reasons b) he died and was replaced with soul-less copy c) he simply got paused and then resumed, will wonder where the day went but nothing else d) none of the above ?	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	hey, did you know trauma is "dreaming" in german ?	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	and kunts = art ?	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform allow me to answer that!	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	One more dies one more lives, one baby cries One mother grieves...	[23:47]
asciilifeform	this is an ancient mega-war, yes, i know.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	and now with music! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI60crM-piE	[23:47]
assbot	Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son Lyrics - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOzC1I )	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	possibly the best song of all time.	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	DEFINITELY a better approach to the entire eliezer/potter bs than either of the proponents.	[23:50]
*	dEBRUYNE has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	plus it only takes ten minutes or so.	[23:50]
nubbins`	kunts	[23:52]
nubbins`	kunst!	[23:52]
asciilifeform	kuntskammer	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` don't opress my convenient dyslexia!	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	(there's a widely known, at least in europe, welt der kunst, world of art. /me had classmates going for a while that it simply means "wealth of cunts")	[23:53]
nubbins`	;;google mommy and me are animals	[23:53]
gribble	Jonathan Meese & his mother: Mommy and me are animals - YouTube: ; - Mommy & me rescue - Shamokin, PA Rescue Animals: ; Mommy & me rescue - Adopt a Pet:	[23:53]
nubbins`	^ speaking of kunst	[23:53]
nubbins`	if you wanna see some bizarre	[23:54]
*	decimation (~decibot@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` i recall discussing that guy last year.	[23:55]
nubbins`	nod	[23:55]
nubbins`	i actually ran into this guy in berlin last summer, hey?	[23:56]
nubbins`	(and his mother)	[23:56]
*	assbot gives voice to decimation	[23:56]
*	dEBRUYNE (~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061025 << i suspect the importance of that is strictly local. ie, some club of idiots got owned by this concept specially constructed for their particular disabilities.	[23:56]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:06:34; nubbins`: and much realer than rololol's basilisk	[23:56]
decimation	asciilifeform: re: asciilifeform: presumably they keel over somewhere else, in a designated place < cats are well known for anticipating their deaths and crawling up some inaccessible hole beforehand to die	[23:57]
asciilifeform	incidentally, the 'basilisk' spoken of is not the usual mythological one,	[23:57]
decimation	probably some kind of protection instinct	[23:57]
asciilifeform	but the one featured in the short story 'blit'	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` you know what i'd like to see, a reality show of this guy and athene the best paladin in the world (with his mother)	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	french vs german!	[23:57]
decimation	Ich moechte gern ein Eis bitte	[23:57]
asciilifeform	decimation: i always mistrusted this explanation. beasts do not need to sense their deaths to turn up expired in some inaccessible place.	[23:57]
nubbins`	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLYrFR9RT_U	[23:58]
assbot	Best Paladin of The World pwning nubs on My Heart Will Go On from Celine Dion (ATHENE #1) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOCdsp )	[23:58]
nubbins`	o.O	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061032 << for my peace of mind, what do you think qt is ?	[23:58]
assbot	Logged on 20-03-2015 23:07:43; nubbins`: unless you're bringing quantum tunneling into it 8)	[23:58]
asciilifeform	they could easily go there every day, and simply fail to come out	[23:58]
*	decimation doesn't own cats, but has heard several anecdotes	[23:58]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu just checking to see if anyone was paying attention 8)	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` http://trilema.com/2012/cel-mai-bun-paladin-din-the-world/	[23:59]
assbot	Cel mai bun paladin din the world. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOCvj4 )	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` but nevertheless...	[23:59]

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