Forum logs for 16 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

BingoBoingo	;;nethash	[00:00]
gribble	1197205513.09	[00:00]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[00:00]
gribble	Current Blocks: 402861 \| Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 \| Next Difficulty In: 338 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 3 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[00:00]
trinque	phf: you see how your sentences have... content ?	[00:01]
trinque	heh, thanks.	[00:01]
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mircea_popescu	adlai https://xkcd.com/1357/	[00:41]
assbot	xkcd: Free Speech ... ( http://bit.ly/1pnbqyx )	[00:41]
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adlai	mircea_popescu: i found it and submitted a second comment, but both seem to have caught in the lo-pass	[00:46]
adlai	my bad, the first has percolated through... maybe it's just all the tube-clogging	[00:46]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433572 << wat?!	[01:02]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 01:28:59; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like "here's a list of my deepest unrelated fears" ?	[01:02]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433586 << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1411373	[01:04]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 01:55:56; mircea_popescu: trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need	[01:04]
assbot	Logged on 21-02-2016 00:38:10; asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud.	[01:04]
asciilifeform	^ mandatory thread	[01:04]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433600 << go ahead and plug the mains cord into your arse if you want. but then complain to somebody else, not to me, when the bulb doesn't light.	[01:04]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 02:18:59; adlai: rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later.	[01:04]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433613 << dingdingdingding we have a winner !11	[01:05]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 02:53:58; phf: trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva	[01:05]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433616 << aha	[01:05]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 02:56:58; phf: trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug	[01:05]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433455 << win.	[01:07]
assbot	Logged on 15-03-2016 19:45:51; deedbot-: [Trilema] xkcd - http://trilema.com/2016/xkcd/	[01:07]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433530 << don't use the vendor's os. for anything. unless whole thing is a gag gift to an enemy.	[01:08]
assbot	Logged on 15-03-2016 23:05:37; BingoBoingo: I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	and even when you install own os, remember that there is no rng.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	on the box.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	as on most routers.	[01:08]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu have a mindphuck - turns out google admits to having jacked up the cpu core count after the single solitary lee sedol win.	[01:09]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:09]
phf	asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?	[01:14]
phf	i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted	[01:16]
asciilifeform	phf: strictly this, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421109	[01:16]
assbot	Logged on 03-03-2016 17:24:15; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet	[01:16]
phf	kk	[01:16]
phf	also http://www.amazon.com/The-Tunnels-Chi-Underground-Battlefields/dp/0891418695	[01:16]
assbot	Amazon.com: The Tunnels of Cu Chi: A Harrowing Account of America's Tunnel Rats in the Underground Battlefields of Vietnam (9780891418696): Tom Mangold: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1pKstuP )	[01:16]
*	asciilifeform buys.	[01:17]
phf	it has a very pro-american/anti-communist bias (and there's a very surprising, complete lack of any SU mentions), but full of fascinating stories of vc tunnel based warfare	[01:19]
asciilifeform	pretty much all american war lit reads like hans rudel	[01:19]
asciilifeform	(at best)	[01:19]
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phf	it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics	[01:24]
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adlai	deedblog-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/	[01:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MlK9BJ )	[01:46]
adlai	oops	[01:46]
adlai	deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/	[01:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MlK9BJ )	[01:46]
deedbot-	Bad URL or network outage.	[01:47]
adlai	oops	[01:47]
adlai	deedbot-: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3363801c-fc7a-404c-a530-8d8a8927efde/?raw=true	[01:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1MlKbd0 )	[01:47]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[01:47]
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phf	asciilifeform: were you starting with stage3 or earlier?	[02:48]
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adlai	;;later tell trinque deedbot- seems to have choked again	[03:33]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:33]
*	adlai fantasizes that his 'jewish wit' was sharp enough to bridge the silicon sarchasm	[03:34]
adlai	hehe, maybe i just wrote the https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ienp4J3pW7U , robot edition	[03:45]
assbot	Monty Python's Flying Circus - World's Funniest Joke - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/22l5FA0 )	[03:45]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-03-2016#1433535 <<< did someone ring? someone need a loan?	[03:53]
assbot	Logged on 15-03-2016 23:10:27; mircea_popescu: o i forgot the jews, did i. THREE KINDS.	[03:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00042051 = 21.5301 BTC [-]	[04:25]
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adlai	what's the custom for voicing freenode webchat nobodies? (at least replying with "who may you be" gets them to shut up.)	[06:17]
adlai	sorry massiro, should I have said "fix your connection"?	[06:17]
adlai	massiro: (and all future !up-please-ers): introduce yourself politely via pm, or ask somebody else.	[06:18]
adlai	!down adlai	[06:18]
*	assbot has kicked adlai from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.)	[06:18]
BingoBoingo	!up massiro	[06:27]
*	assbot gives voice to massiro	[06:27]
massiro	Thank you.	[06:27]
massiro	I wanted to share info about the payout problem with Jeb-Bush-Nomination.	[06:30]
massiro	I wonder if you remember me... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-01-2016#1360779	[06:31]
assbot	Logged on 05-01-2016 05:55:53; massiro: The above site says the fee is 0.001 BTC so I think it is more than enough. Is this related to low/high S value problem?	[06:31]
massiro	I'm sad to hear the Jeb Bush payout accident...	[06:31]
massiro	I think it has something to do with the release of Core-0.12 (23rd February 2016).	[06:32]
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massiro	And the spam attack revealed the problem.	[06:32]
massiro	First of all, Core-0.12 stops 0-fee tx relaying during spam attacks.	[06:33]
massiro	Secondly, Core-0.12 abolished mining 0-fee txes by default.	[06:33]
massiro	I have written a (small) wall of text at http://dpaste.com/22W2SCE, regarding the causes of the payout problem.	[06:34]
assbot	Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlSaYT )	[06:34]
massiro	Thank you BingoBoingo for giving me a voice!	[06:37]
BingoBoingo	yw	[06:37]
massiro	To adlai's asking, I'm an occasional bettor at bbet. Sorry to omit introducing about myself.	[06:47]
deedbot-	[fr.anco.is] X.EUR March 16th 2016 statement - http://fr.anco.is/2016/x-eur-march-16th-2016-statement/	[06:56]
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thestringpuller	classic starts own node cartel: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4aiiuc/hey_core_you_can_waste_your_own_resources_now/	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433627 << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed!	[07:58]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 04:03:22; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433572 << wat?!	[07:58]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433648 << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos.	[08:02]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 04:15:31; phf: asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken?	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433649 << for my own curiosity and the calibration of public judgement, how many lines, how many hours ? or something ?	[08:02]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 04:16:51; phf: i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433659 << i dunno why you think this odd. as far as my experience goes, 100% of english language literature (long before the days orwell quit and his naive, square jawed colonial subjects took over the pretense of empire) is exactly this "here are our assumptions, which clearly paint us as utterly and hopelessly stupid, let's lampshade it and carry on". i don't think by n	[08:05]
mircea_popescu	ow english speaker even realises there's a disconnect between what the words mean and what his actions do.	[08:05]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 04:25:15; phf: it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics	[08:05]
mircea_popescu	which, ungenerously enough, seems just a step away from the breakdown specific to shitholes like argentina, where people altogether don't even comprehend words are in any sense meaningful, above and beyond the chirping captive populations of chickens do to reassure each other.	[08:05]
mircea_popescu	massiro it's an interesting theory, apart from the fact that nobody uses core in production, or has for many years now.	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	yes, various derps on poorly connected boxes still play with it. this is about as relevant to the discussion as considering what machines aspiring webcomic designers use when discussing pixar or something.	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	might as well say "it's because pogos", which would be equally flattering just in a different direction and otherwise equally afield.	[08:10]
thestringpuller	lol. p. sure 90% of current pixar staff at one point were aspiring webcomic designers...	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller yes, but they don't come with their own home fucking computers.	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	nobody goes "i'm going to hire joe, he's kinda meh but he has a kickass workstation!".	[08:12]
mircea_popescu	in fact, the difference between THAT approach and what actually happens is exactly the difference between infantile and adult life.	[08:12]
mircea_popescu	in roadtrip they go "we gotta take the weirdo - he has a car".	[08:12]
thestringpuller	sure asking truckers to fix toy truck	[08:12]
thestringpuller	fo shizzle. node is almost up to date 200 blocks left	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	i mean yes, it's true that most of the firemen are kids that played with fire trucks. it is however quite pointedly not true that most of the equipment down at the fire station is toy fire trucks brought in by conscientious neighbourhood kids.	[08:13]
thestringpuller	perhaps the toys should change. much more useful to work on toys that signal real life than say plastic thing on wheels.	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	this entire "look what prb does" is so much cosmo kramer from kramerica industries fixing the fire dept. what was that episode	[08:14]
thestringpuller	the secret code?	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	"the secret code" http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/TheSecretCode2.htm	[08:15]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[08:15]
assbot	Seinfeld Scripts - The Secret Code ... ( http://bit.ly/1YZy90f )	[08:15]
thestringpuller	"Meanwhile, Kramer buys a police scanner and decides to help at the New York City Fire Department. When they receive a call about the fire at Leapin' Larry's, Kramer accidentally knocks out the fire engine driver, forcing him to take the wheel, realizing his lifelong dream. However, he is unable to steer correctly and crashes the fire engine, allowing the fire to spread further."	[08:15]
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thestringpuller	admittedly Kramer is pretty much a modern VC wet dream. some of the stuff he sells that's "successful" is just...	[08:16]
mircea_popescu	a coffee table book about coffee tables!	[08:17]
thestringpuller	for instance the coffee table book about coffee tables that can turn into a coffee table	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	lol	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	kinda how decay goes : stuff is the butt of jokes and "how stupid can these stupid people be", then next decade - sop.	[08:17]
thestringpuller	you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)	[08:20]
thestringpuller	sometimes I wonder if we went down another path where the educational toys actually make the next generation more stupid. i always thought it interesting that "children of the future will be smarter"	[08:22]
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mircea_popescu	well... computers of the future will be better, right ?	[08:25]
mircea_popescu	intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".	[08:26]
*	assbot gives voice to adlai	[08:26]
mircea_popescu	(no, no, intelligence is not a THING. it is a behaviour. like dancing.)	[08:26]
thestringpuller	severe lack of education, these days. perhaps not enough beating. or enough starving for dropouts.	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	or any incentive whatsoever.	[08:27]
adlai	thestringpuller: main problem these days is too much bitcoin, they've printed 15 million already and show no signs of stopping	[08:28]
adlai	massiro: cool wall! sorry about the impoliteness.	[08:29]
mircea_popescu	adlai you can just up unknowns, they'll resolve it soon enough.	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	what you shouldn't do is up known idiots, but few resist the temptation.	[08:30]
adlai	meh, i spam enough myself, no need to facilitate spamming by schroedinger's idiots.	[08:30]
adlai	but thank you for the blanket permission :P	[08:31]
thestringpuller	reminds me of conversation I had with CVS cashier. dude was fresh out of high school and I began explaining how banks worked cause I was furious the ATM fees were 5 bucks in that store. anyhow after 5 minutes of confusion cause kid didn't pay attention in school states, "I ain't trynna think that hard man. I'm done with school."	[08:32]
*	adlai tried explaining bitcoin to a flatmate, seven different ways. each time explanation was met with "why can't people just use money". known idiot is now a former-flatmate.	[08:33]
thestringpuller	sure why not live in ignorance. get your 8.50/hr from CVS, blow it on rent, pot and booze, continue on. no incentive for agency. just a programmable cog.	[08:33]
thestringpuller	frighteningly similar to brave new world. (give em soma and carry on)	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	adlai i don't see the problem with this objection ? "they are. that's what i'm telling you. you don't use greek bronze weights, do you ?"	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller hey, life is good, whadda ya want. partay!	[08:34]
adlai	ah, so bitcoin is just another mettle, like gold, iron, greek bronze, and mental fortitude?	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	well, money's a whore, kinda old by now, consequently keeps changing her attire.	[08:35]
adlai	indeed the local rabble love to shout, "BITCOIN ZE BARZEL"	[08:35]
adlai	well if i ever meet the guy again, i'll be sure to tell him mircea_popescu thanks him for not buying his divestment.	[08:36]
thestringpuller	;;later tell asciilifeform Finally experienced the stuck node thing. Interesting behavior. Wouldn't even accept the "stop" command. Had to kill -9 it.	[08:37]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[08:37]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: i guess let them live in ignorance as long as said ignorance doesn't interfere with the adults?	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	everything interferes with everything.	[08:38]
thestringpuller	i never really liked babysitting.	[08:38]
mircea_popescu	this "doesn't interfere" thing's a pregnant fiction.	[08:38]
thestringpuller	why open a nice school in the ghetto, if it'll just get defaced two weeks later?	[08:39]
adlai	yet a precise interferometer is about as feasible as a trustworthy kyristor	[08:39]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433700 << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu	[08:41]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 10:59:58; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433627 << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed!	[08:41]
asciilifeform	pope or no pope	[08:42]
asciilifeform	for anyone who missed the thread, it concerned capitulation to the enemy	[08:42]
asciilifeform	blew my mind that any such thing was on the table	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well, this'd be what i mean. capitulation what ?	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	the queston was, what the fuck are we going to do !	[08:43]
asciilifeform	and ~i~ will have no part of it.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	dude again ?	[08:43]
mircea_popescu	you will have no part in what ?	[08:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: any alignment with a usg-enriching or dimon-enabling phork	[08:44]
mircea_popescu	and how does this relate to what was being discussed ?	[08:44]
mircea_popescu	i don't fuck guys. ok. so ?	[08:44]
asciilifeform	or introduction of material from either into a future trb	[08:44]
mircea_popescu	again. how is this related to what was being discussed ?	[08:44]
asciilifeform	did i misthtead or what	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	you misread so amply it boggles the mind.	[08:45]
adlai	mircea_popescu: you did say we may have to choose the lesser of two evils	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	IF	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	~~~~~IIIFFFFFF~~~~~	[08:45]
asciilifeform	this was re the 'strategy' thread, no?	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	we have nothing to propose of our own	[08:45]
mircea_popescu	THENNNNNNN we will have no fucking good choices to make.	[08:45]
adlai	other than "no fork"?	[08:45]
adlai	there is no spoon, nor a fork. there is a knife, and it lowers kelvin.	[08:46]
asciilifeform	but we have, e.g., a spiffy mircea_popescutronic item from last month	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	adlai wouldja think for a moment ? if miners fork tomorrow, pre-miner-fork trb will not be defensible. because bitfury (you know, kakobrekla's friends) have access to vc capital, and will bridge the gap between us printing press and chinese mining.	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	should have fucking killed those derps back when they were nobody and losing bitbet bets,	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	HOWEVER we didn't, because hey, maybe they do somethign good	[08:46]
adlai	so you're specifically suggesting a "reset PoW" fork?	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	in the end, what they did was they sparked through the dielectric.	[08:47]
asciilifeform	adlai: read mircea_popescu's keccak article	[08:47]
mircea_popescu	adlai i'm specifically suggesting we better stop flailing emotionally and fucking think, because things are not going well.	[08:47]
adlai	asciilifeform: i can't find this article. do you mean the "necessary prerequisite" one?	[08:48]
kakobrekla	dunno about friendship - i havent been able to reach bitfury in years	[08:48]
asciilifeform	i dun flail, i sit on sharp telephone pole and keccak on lunchbreakz..	[08:48]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu	but... i want to believe. sure.	[08:49]
asciilifeform	holyfuk wat?!	[08:49]
*	thestringpuller just walked into the x-files	[08:49]
kakobrekla	nfi	[08:50]
asciilifeform	i can't wait to learn to whom ~i~ somehow betrayed the motherland	[08:50]
asciilifeform	mtgox?	[08:51]
adlai	fwiw, i sincerely doubt miners would "let core devs decide" if they believed "economic consensus" were against the devs; but this leaves open the problem of convincing them of this.	[08:51]
*	adlai does not control economic consensus, nor the miners	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	adlai they believe the rewaerd havling will kill them, which it well might ; and they see the opportunity with all the core/bitcoin-xt/blabla. will they take it ?	[08:52]
mircea_popescu	IF they do, WHAT DO WE DO.	[08:52]
asciilifeform	adlai: do you not see the problem of having 'konsensoooos' in he mix at all ?	[08:52]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform apparently im accused for working for the dark side now, somehow ?	[08:52]
adlai	asciilifeform: partially, although the market price of forkchains makes consensus crystal clear - but only in retrospect.	[08:53]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: that was the implication? unless i'm thick	[08:53]
kakobrekla	well, rate away!	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	there's a difference between "i know x" and "i don't know x".	[08:54]
adlai	mircea_popescu: hmmm. ok, this is a valid question, my answer to which is: port Luke-Jr's keccak reset from "classic" to trb, and be ready to activate it, should a fork occur.	[08:54]
adlai	but i don't think trb should initiate a fork.	[08:54]
mircea_popescu	at no point was it proposed that trb does.	[08:55]
asciilifeform	adlai: who said anything about porting some derp's turd	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	the entire thing was, we should take stock of the situation, and make some judgements and plan some plans in a complete and responsible manner.	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	just like we [at least theoretically/aspirationally] write code	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	ennumerate the fucking states and test!	[08:55]
adlai	asciilifeform: "port" in the loose sense of the word. let's rephrase that as "some poor code monkey should write a keccak vpatch for trb, but nobody should ever have to use it"	[08:55]
asciilifeform	adlai: nuke must be tested.	[08:56]
adlai	of course, this is why we have ATC	[08:56]
asciilifeform	on live vermin, to be effective.	[08:56]
thestringpuller	had*	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	so again : 1) ~IF~ summer/july becomes the summer of forks, what do we do ?	[08:56]
mircea_popescu	2) IF miners come out with their own fork, what do we do ?	[08:56]
asciilifeform	i liked mircea_popescu's algo!	[08:56]
thestringpuller	what about the 5% needed to veto softforks?	[08:57]
adlai	asciilifeform: you never answered my question. which is mp's keccak article?	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform please note that it was strictly example and not design work ready for implementation.	[08:57]
mircea_popescu	adlai pretty sure the one you said.	[08:57]
adlai	ok, i also like that idea, although as you said yourself, it's not fully baked yet. i also like that it can be initially opt-in, with an ultimatum that it gets 'hardened' by some date, if it hasn't 'softened' by then.	[08:58]
asciilifeform	the only thing i would change is to retain old capital distribution, then keccak has a chance at continuing old schellingpoint.	[08:58]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:58]
mircea_popescu	see, now for some reason we're talking on point.	[08:58]
mircea_popescu	i dunno wtf i shoulda done different so this happened a week ago rather than now.	[08:58]
asciilifeform	adlai: you can't 'soften' powe	[08:58]
adlai	asciilifeform: mircea's suggestion is implementable as a soft fork.	[08:58]
mircea_popescu	it is ?	[08:59]
adlai	ie, only miners ~must~ enforce it; once nodes also do, it hardens, and then miners can't choose to reverse the previously-soft fork.	[08:59]
asciilifeform	no, wtf!	[08:59]
mircea_popescu	i'm confused.	[08:59]
adlai	until it hardens, miners could reverse.	[08:59]
asciilifeform	adlai: holy fuck, 2 pows?!	[08:59]
adlai	no.	[08:59]
asciilifeform	wh?	[08:59]
adlai	we're probably talking about different articles.	[08:59]
*	adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"	[09:00]
adlai	which is possible to launch as a miner-only fork, which nodes can choose to enforce, but don't have to; and then at some later date, all nodes enforce it, and miners know they must keep enforcing it, too.	[09:00]
asciilifeform	adlai: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol	[09:01]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UyPaxv )	[09:01]
thestringpuller	i like how bitcoin mining manufacturers don't even shy away about it: "this is the most powerful miner available to ~the public~" what miners are available to the private?	[09:01]
adlai	asciilifeform: we're talking about the same article. read what i just said, it is about that idea.	[09:01]
adlai	thestringpuller: all the ones that matter	[09:01]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller might just be boilerplate. replace "to the public" with "on god's own earth".	[09:02]
asciilifeform	adlai: i utterly fail to grasp how this is an idea	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	can't make this sorta judgements on the basis of fucking copywriting.	[09:02]
asciilifeform	wtf is a 'miner-only fork'	[09:02]
adlai	asciilifeform: it's an idea because it means that the "#b-a fork" isn't a hard-fork that can fail.	[09:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dunno, the crowning of five years of complete neglect of the relay network ?	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	"dun matter anyway!"	[09:03]
adlai	as opposed to "let's make our new blocks incompatible"	[09:03]
adlai	breaking consensus is a hard fork. narrowing it - soft.	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	ok.	[09:03]
mircea_popescu	that much we agree on. go on.	[09:03]
asciilifeform	adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=20-10-2015#1303934	[09:04]
assbot	Logged on 20-10-2015 22:10:51; ascii_field: 'we'll make trucks over five tonnes switch sides first!'	[09:04]
adlai	well what do i go on about? ultimately the whole hard/soft thing is a terrible terminology, verging on false dichotomy.	[09:04]
*	adlai shuts up and attends to private matters	[09:04]
mircea_popescu	adlai you go about deductively showing your proposal from the shared basis.	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	if, then.	[09:05]
asciilifeform	again how the fuck can pow switch be 'soft' in any sense ?!	[09:05]
asciilifeform	it dun get any harder than pow switchout	[09:05]
adlai	aha, here's the misunderstanding. my proposal was not a pow switch.	[09:05]
mircea_popescu	but the article was ?	[09:05]
thestringpuller	get the miners to execute themselves willingly - softfork.	[09:05]
adlai	mircea_popescu: correct. i was hallucinating an alternate article, which said to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433851	[09:06]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 12:01:30; *: adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn"	[09:06]
asciilifeform	softfecalmatter is how we got here.	[09:06]
*	adlai adjusts meth-lsd dosage accordingly to reduce hallucinations	[09:06]
mircea_popescu	i dunno what all that was but anyways.	[09:07]
asciilifeform	adlai: this is ~exactly~ the old joke with the trucks	[09:07]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform keeping old coinbases has the advantage and the disadvantage of keeping old coinbases.	[09:07]
mircea_popescu	yes, schelling point to continue, yes with the same idiots/geniuses as before, and thus at a lower adoption interest.	[09:07]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the advantage is that we become distinguishable from the usual idiot attempts at self-enrichment.	[09:08]
mircea_popescu	certainly.	[09:08]
asciilifeform	the disadvantages - legion.	[09:08]
thestringpuller	this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.	[09:08]
mircea_popescu	i'm not pushing it either this way or that, just want to get all the things on table if possibru.	[09:09]
asciilifeform	it could even make sense to fight on 2 fronts at once.	[09:09]
asciilifeform	keccak-clean and keccak-trbchain.	[09:09]
thestringpuller	clean?	[09:10]
mircea_popescu	(and generally i dunno why this shortcircuit between facts and judgement became fashionable here, seems much too close to the habits of the "independent" demographic for comfort. trust me, if i want to say x i will say it in those exact words, as i have without exception to date. saying i don't know x means i do not know. and similarly, here, and so on. i totally can speak for myself, say what i mean etc.)	[09:10]
asciilifeform	nowhere is it written that tmsr will field exactly one weapon.	[09:10]
mircea_popescu	this much is very true.	[09:10]
mircea_popescu	which was part of my initial wtf at your initial reaction.	[09:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: sleep of reason breeds monsters etc	[09:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my reaction now is same as then, i am willing to take part in 1,000,001 variants but not in capitulation to the motherfuckng nazis	[09:12]
mircea_popescu	yes yes. good.	[09:12]
asciilifeform	if i wanted to wear brown all i gotta do is, understand, cross the street	[09:12]
asciilifeform	but i dun wanna.	[09:12]
mircea_popescu	i think the record well reflects this.	[09:13]
asciilifeform	(last night for example i formally turned down the 'encouragement' to try out for 'top secret' and may very well be sacked eventually because of it)	[09:14]
mircea_popescu	so your idea is, that we of course continue to maintain trb as is, but also develop a keccak pow variant, for use in case of forks ? or vice-versa, in case of forks develop it ?	[09:14]
asciilifeform	aha.	[09:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform lol hey, life of your parents! funny how this works!	[09:14]
asciilifeform	quite!	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	how would it go, that commenter's proposal ?	[09:15]
asciilifeform	which?	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	lemme fish it out	[09:15]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116408	[09:16]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UyRBjA )	[09:16]
mircea_popescu	basically, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest), and BOTH must be < difficulty.	[09:16]
mircea_popescu	well, hm, that doesn't work as stated	[09:16]
mircea_popescu	what i read there was, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest+nonce)	[09:17]
asciilifeform	keccak is an 'accordion'	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	and obviously, gotta be the same nonce.	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform keccak for this purpose counts as sha-3	[09:17]
asciilifeform	and properly stretches to fit the while thing	[09:17]
asciilifeform	Whole thing	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	that's not the problem, the merkle tree jiggling is the problem.	[09:17]
asciilifeform	yes but it doesn't need the idiot chaining	[09:17]
mircea_popescu	there was no sha(sha( contemplated	[09:18]
mircea_popescu	or you mean something else ?	[09:18]
asciilifeform	linked comment	[09:18]
mircea_popescu	ah ah. that's just assumption imported from current codebase, not intentional.	[09:18]
asciilifeform	also the hashing-the-header thing is possibly evil	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	the valuable idea there is, imo, that you have to keep the same nonce to calculate both sha values. which ACTUALLY does work, or seems to me to work, to do what the article proposes	[09:19]
asciilifeform	enables pools.	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	ie, give nodes a way to make money for cpu usage.	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it can stay as PART of it tho.	[09:19]
mircea_popescu	see, the beauty of this is that it is a TRUE soft fork.	[09:20]
asciilifeform	sure.	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	ie, you still need the old gear + new gear.	[09:20]
asciilifeform	how?	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	not in the faux sense of "soft" used before.	[09:20]
asciilifeform	ok now i'm thoroughly lost	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	(well, it ~can~ be at any rate)	[09:20]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ask a question ?	[09:20]
asciilifeform	i thought we were bugspraying the old gear people.	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	we CAN.	[09:21]
asciilifeform	for their crimes.	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	we don't HAVE TO.	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	winning is all about preserving your fucking options.	[09:21]
mircea_popescu	in the pow1 = sha(header+nonce) and pow2 = sha(digest+nonce), the first sha can even stay what it is now.	[09:21]
asciilifeform	i can see preserving old capital allocation re coinz	[09:21]
asciilifeform	but hash power distrib? lunacy	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform same argument could be presented in reverse, also.	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	to plenty, present coinbase allocation = lunacy.	[09:22]
mircea_popescu	after all, do you know how much usg stole so far ? do they have more than satoshi yet ? if not yet, when ?	[09:23]
asciilifeform	it depends on who the reader sees as musting die, no?	[09:23]
mircea_popescu	eventually, yes ? not like satoshi is adding any.	[09:23]
mircea_popescu	if only it were so simple!	[09:23]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:23]
asciilifeform	the available evidence suggests that, like a bike thief, they steal to ~sell~	[09:24]
asciilifeform	!s waterfall	[09:24]
assbot	119 results for 'waterfall' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=waterfall	[09:24]
mircea_popescu	but this does not detract from their capacity of selling.	[09:24]
mircea_popescu	if one day they come to their senses, what then ?	[09:24]
mircea_popescu	"sell" ? to whom ? etc.	[09:24]
*	assbot gives voice to shinohai	[09:24]
mircea_popescu	im sorry, "detract from their capacity of stealing" is what i meant.	[09:24]
asciilifeform	then, as described in mircea_popescu's articles, they become just another player	[09:25]
shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433891 <<< yup :)	[09:25]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 12:09:47; thestringpuller: this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing.	[09:25]
mircea_popescu	not those senses, their other senses.	[09:25]
asciilifeform	waiwut	[09:25]
asciilifeform	how would this look?	[09:25]
asciilifeform	'from now on we sit on all we steal so we can dump in a decade' ?	[09:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform usg currently steals to sell. perhaps. this does not reduce their capacity to steal in the future. if in the future they steal to hoard, or if the stuff they "sold" was just facade, through preserving coinbases we are baking in not just the original satoshi, but also an evil satoshi.	[09:26]
asciilifeform	and meanwhile let it 'go to moon' ?!	[09:26]
asciilifeform	evil satoshi is likewise present in any fork, unless you're convinced - and i am not - that enemy cannot win arbitrary pow miner buildout race.	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	this is also true.	[09:28]
asciilifeform	let's recall which side has si fabs.	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	these are all the moving parts we'll have to count and balance.	[09:28]
asciilifeform	and which - not.	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	the usg does not have si fabs.	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	not anymore than you do.	[09:28]
asciilifeform	intel	[09:28]
asciilifeform	and fuck, people like northrop	[09:28]
mircea_popescu	intellectual property outfits.	[09:29]
asciilifeform	they actually fab in usa.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	some, not so much not so well etc.	[09:29]
asciilifeform	nope, the latter - fab.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	myeah, there is that.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	and of course the nsa foundry etc.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	altho they sold it to some contractor iirc ? whatevs.	[09:29]
asciilifeform	aha.	[09:29]
asciilifeform	'sold'	[09:29]
mircea_popescu	you mean like "sold" bitcoin ? :D	[09:30]
asciilifeform	standard way to handle budget overruns	[09:30]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[09:30]
asciilifeform	e.g., sandia labs, was likewise 'sold' iirc.	[09:30]
asciilifeform	so - usg can build, if pressed, machines. ~whereas~ existing coinbases they can only reallocate, save a ecdsa break, by knocking people over the head. which is loud and somewhat costly.	[09:31]
mircea_popescu	neither loud nor costly to date.	[09:32]
asciilifeform	and has well-documented countermeasures.	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	to a point.	[09:32]
asciilifeform	ulbricht was mighty loud.	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	really ?	[09:32]
mircea_popescu	who got shot ?	[09:32]
asciilifeform	and if he had a pin to pull, the nazis would have nothing.	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	if btc people were the sort where it'd cost about 1.25 heads of usg agent per bitcoin stolen, this is one thing.	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	btc people so far seem much lower effort than that.	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	so i can't compute this like you would. it's silent and cheap, not loud, not costly.	[09:33]
asciilifeform	destroying the keys would be a start.	[09:33]
mircea_popescu	not being an anglotard - even better start. and yet...	[09:33]
asciilifeform	scorched earth device is usable by ~anyone.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	i would propose to you that "destroying the keys" feels exactly like "moving to argentina" does to you.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	so it is usable by anyone who doesn't work, live, was educated or born in the us.	[09:34]
asciilifeform	i suppose.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	this utter fear of finality they bake into all their runts.	[09:34]
mircea_popescu	"omaigerd what do you mean it's finished!"	[09:35]
asciilifeform	and mircea_popescu knows that i'd be on the next flight if i were properly 13337 and knew how to pay the rentz there.	[09:35]
mircea_popescu	hahahaha. and similarly i know that they WOULDNT NEED TO pull the pin	[09:35]
mircea_popescu	if they were properly leet and called their secret legions to battle with da polis.	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	derp, srsly.	[09:36]
asciilifeform	l0l point	[09:36]
asciilifeform	then we're really speaking of eating one's nagant	[09:36]
asciilifeform	which plenty of folks do	[09:36]
asciilifeform	and yet others - study to do	[09:36]
mircea_popescu	yes, plenty of folk do. that don't work, live, were educated or born in the us.	[09:37]
asciilifeform	whatchatalkingabout usa inmates drop like flies	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	suddenly we understand the importance of national heroes like joe stack	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	it protects an entire fucking population from the above being an absolute.	[09:37]
asciilifeform	they suicide at drop of a hat!	[09:37]
mircea_popescu	yehimsure.	[09:37]
asciilifeform	usually cheaply/boringly	[09:38]
asciilifeform	but just as dead	[09:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu this is a country where , i suspect, most folks' retirement plan is a .45 !	[09:39]
asciilifeform	'Colt Life&Health Co.'	[09:39]
asciilifeform	but mircea_popescu nailed it, 'get on the boat with the shirt on yer back' is a kind of death-lite-version	[09:41]
asciilifeform	been there, done that.	[09:42]
asciilifeform	witnessed the effect on older folk, too.	[09:42]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	i enjoy it so much i do it spuriously.	[09:44]
asciilifeform	mno.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu	do tell ?	[09:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu , what, threw out his capital ?	[09:45]
asciilifeform	all of it?	[09:45]
asciilifeform	went with shirt?!	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	i did build and burn a number of fortunes, but in my younger years. nevertheless : you know, peter ALSO didn't HAVE TO take the imperial guard with.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	it's an option, not an obligation.	[09:45]
asciilifeform	no phriend-who-owes-him-a-block-of-flats either !	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	for actual emperors. not for fuckrags a la obama, but for actual emperors.	[09:46]
asciilifeform	whatever nietzschetronic etc. etc.	[09:46]
mircea_popescu	dun haet.	[09:47]
asciilifeform	l0lz	[09:47]
asciilifeform	yahyah mircea_popescu has esp powerz and they aint for sale and follow him through the seven worlds etc etc	[09:48]
asciilifeform	but i was talking about mortals.	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	dun haet!!1	[09:48]
mircea_popescu	mortals ain't pulling any pins, you see. so yea, "anyonecandoit".	[09:49]
asciilifeform	not ntirely unrelatedly, usg is doing an impromptu collapse drill under the guise of fire inspection, and closes the whole motherfuckng subway for 24h	[09:49]
asciilifeform	so now i go and see what 100,000 extra cars look like.	[09:50]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[09:50]
*	mircea_popescu had a friend, and a fine fellow he was, who unfortunately died young. but we were friends from childhood	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	my earliest memory of him is, we were in some rural setting, dun recall whose grandparents, and we had chicks (kids get young hatchlings to play with in the time and place, it's a time-honored tradition like getting your toddler one of those dingly noise things to put above the crib or w/e)	[09:51]
mircea_popescu	some younger kid that didn't have one wanted to play with his, this guy would have none of it, eventually some adult intervened to make him share	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	so he turned the chicks neck and threw the corpse at the whiner.	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	school hadn't yet started, so we were prolly 6 or so. but this was a rare concept even at that age.	[09:52]
mircea_popescu	~EVEN~ at that age.	[09:52]
thestringpuller	shutting the studio down?	[09:53]
thestringpuller	very p. diddy-esque	[09:53]
*	dbclk (~dbclk@190-58-250-129.business.static.tstt.net.tt) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:18]
mircea_popescu	and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/dc33a2028212d40e6e9ec9b9f889e90f/tumblr_nczbyyHu0n1t2qfvbo1_1280.jpg	[10:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ptORZA )	[10:28]
shinohai	;;later tell BingoBoingo ping me when you have time to look at possible qntra submission. Grazie.	[10:32]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[10:32]
mircea_popescu	(and to cap that story - yea the adults expressed outrage ["how could you do that!"] but no, he wasn't punished, because no there was no offense, and the father(s) wouldn't have it, or generally let the women run amok with their nonsense. so hurray for patriarchy or whatever, boo the psychopaths of this world!)	[10:38]
*	dbclk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[10:40]
assbot	Logged on 15-03-2016 23:11:11; jurov: and gasp roman catholics	[10:44]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 11:43:02; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433700 << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu	[10:48]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 11:50:11; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern.	[10:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60550 @ 0.0004201 = 25.4371 BTC [-] {4}	[10:54]
*	deedbot- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[10:56]
*	dbclk (~dbclk@200.7.90.97) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:04]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[11:05]
*	assbot gives voice to dbclk	[11:05]
davout	nubbins`: just interested in seeing who's paying attention	[11:06]
jurov	i wish i had rather not pay attention	[11:10]
assbot	[10/100] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [UPDATED DESIGN FOR 2016] ... ( http://bit.ly/1pIEPUf )	[11:11]
trinque	adlai: your deed will send as soon as this thing reimports its key into the wallet for the 30th time	[11:18]
adlai	mircea_popescu: that is such a terrible story, the child should have been spanked for chiccicide	[11:18]
trinque	$ LC_ALL=C bitcoind listaccounts	[11:18]
trinque	{	[11:18]
trinque	"" : -0.00020000	[11:18]
trinque	}	[11:18]
adlai	aha looks like trinque is pulling a ben_vulpes ?	[11:18]
trinque	pardon?	[11:18]
adlai	nvm	[11:18]
mircea_popescu	yeah im sure.	[11:18]
adlai	masheu beanglit	[11:18]
mircea_popescu	what's so terrible about it ?	[11:18]
adlai	the child should have been spanked! you don't just go around letting your kids kill things, without a little flick on the butt	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	and why not ?	[11:19]
trinque	when I had a cat it killed things all the time, for fun.	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	cats are particularly bloodthirsty huh.	[11:19]
mircea_popescu	anyway, http://trilema.com/2016/the-chick-incident/	[11:20]
assbot	The chick incident on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/21v8z2T )	[11:20]
adlai	mircea_popescu: i wanna answer with a log link, but the search is failing so i'll quote instead: "mircea_popescu: *-cide is never justifiable"	[11:21]
adlai	although the * in that context was just a bunch of cells!	[11:22]
adlai	(for the lispless in the audience, cells are a human invention, by kenny tilton)	[11:22]
adlai	somebody on better terms with that man oughtta invite him in here someday.	[11:22]
mircea_popescu	i don't think justification was attempted.	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	breathing is also never justifiable.	[11:23]
adlai	iirc somebody asked you whether you justify abortion or somesuch	[11:23]
mircea_popescu	best find the link.	[11:23]
adlai	!s mircea abortion	[11:23]
assbot	31 results for 'mircea abortion' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=mircea+abortion	[11:23]
*	adlai lets googlebot find it	[11:23]
adlai	it's 4:20, i got blunts to burn and chat to spurn.	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	adlai can't propose weird stances for mp to have taken in the past and then crap out on the documentation.	[11:24]
adlai	well it was definitely after i joined the channel, if that limits the search space.	[11:24]
mircea_popescu	nobody's going to do your work. you wanna talk to the adults, talk like the adults.	[11:24]
adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-04-2015#1106206	[11:25]
assbot	Logged on 22-04-2015 01:52:22; mircea_popescu: the alternative is nothing. murder's not something to be explained.	[11:25]
*	adlai attains enlightenment - "chix" are not subject to "murder"!	[11:25]
adlai	thank you, buddha. you're next.	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	you see the difference between to explain and to justify yes ?	[11:25]
adlai	sure	[11:26]
*	adlai wanders off in search of the buddha	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	discretionary acts are that, discretionary. no explanation is available for the private sphere.	[11:26]
mircea_popescu	but yes, that's the major problem of murder : a private act with major public effects. pretty major conundrum.	[11:27]
*	adlai blows buddha-neck-dust off hands	[11:29]
adlai	( for the heathens - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C5%8Dan#Killing_the_Buddha )	[11:30]
assbot	Kōan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1VckfYs )	[11:30]
adlai	!t m s.mpoe	[11:33]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042006 / 0.00042062 / 0.00042603 (374417 shares, 157.49 BTC), 7D: 0.00042006 / 0.00048142 / 0.00053073 (12408846 shares, 5,973.87 BTC), 30D: 0.00042006 / 0.00055086 / 0.00059897 (72958913 shares, 40,190.59 BTC)	[11:33]
mircea_popescu	so i made the mistake of following the tardpedia link. therein,	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!"	[11:35]
mircea_popescu	motherfucking hell these idiots already.	[11:36]
*	assbot removes voice from dbclk	[11:36]
mircea_popescu	i'm not sure there exists but i'm sure i don't know anything more offensive than the precious derpage in the eastern tradition.	[11:36]
adlai	they were right about killing them! put them out of their fucking misery, can't you hear it in their "bushels of flax"	[11:36]
adlai	btw: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-01-2016#1386701 << yes totally you have no idea. you should try it sometime!	[11:37]
assbot	Logged on 27-01-2016 00:03:26; mircea_popescu: isn't lying fun.	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	"if you meet a derpy teenager with whispy "beard" hair, onanistic odours wafting every which way who can'tstop prattlingabout his erotic exploits...	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	whatever, kill him i guess."	[11:37]
mircea_popescu	fucking bullshit, "what's the meaning of coincidence ?" "dunno dood, HE HAD TO FUCKING COME FROM SOMEWHERE" hurr durr.	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	"gotta do something while waiting for buddha to decide christ's more fun and come back to save or someshit."	[11:38]
mircea_popescu	"meanwhile this cock ain't gonna rub itself, so here we are".	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	adlai you realise - google is even better at koans than at go.	[11:39]
adlai	oh i know, i already ready https://medium.com/my-satsang/on-k%C5%8Dans-and-turing-machines-adeac0844dac#.z82tdhxaw	[11:40]
assbot	On Kōans and Turing Machines — My Satsang — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/21vaiFa )	[11:40]
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trinque	https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*e-IrhTIQQ2-GaOdbDMYxGw.png << ahahahahaha check that out. model of consciousness even	[11:42]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/21vay74 )	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	trinque "but what is the meaning of the colors!" "the wild fox is dead"	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.	[11:45]
*	hybridsole (~hybridsol@c-67-177-114-112.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:45]
mircea_popescu	in the same vein, mihai margineanu playing atm, just went "whenever you ask a question you don't expect answered ; why are you surprised when you get an answer you didn't expect".	[11:46]
trinque	not bad	[11:47]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434153 << don't confuse with valhalla hall, with the valkyries. nirvana hall is just that 20 m^3 concrete cesspool from mircea_popescu's old article.	[11:50]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 14:46:24; mircea_popescu: hurr durr we're in nirvana hall.	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform is coincidentally the pompous name of the place where the events discussed transpired.	[11:51]
asciilifeform	urgh	[11:51]
mircea_popescu	!up hybridsole	[11:51]
-assbot-	You voiced hybridsole for 30 minutes.	[11:51]
*	assbot gives voice to hybridsole	[11:52]
asciilifeform	interestingly, no effect visible to naked eye from the city subway here being closed - seems as if usg took the day off..	[11:53]
asciilifeform	so net ~0.	[11:53]
*	deedbot- (~deedbot-@172.86.178.46) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:53]
*	assbot gives voice to deedbot-	[11:53]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what, the assumption that alternatives exist died in practice yet again ?	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	and silly me, to think that the guys in the subway are there by choice, and they could do something else.	[11:55]
mircea_popescu	"no subway, no travel - i don't own a 1/100000 of the 100`000 spare car meta-pool, nor do i have anything to do that'd justify it."	[11:56]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: megalopolis dies without either a) subway or b) the folks who work there, living there	[11:58]
asciilifeform	and we don't have (b) here	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	so tell me, as a curio : what is the correct accounting for "city having subway" in the books of a donut shop at the corner of 85th and 10th ?	[11:58]
asciilifeform	calculate how much of, e.g., nyc, you would have to level and convert to garage, and how much to level to convert to 32-lane streets, to have a (c) everyone drives	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	because it clearly IS part of the books, right ? trivially enumerable, as it is. just not easy to evaluate.	[11:58]
mircea_popescu	what do!	[11:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well traditionally it is whatever the tax is, no ?	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	or wait, you don't do number grid in dc, do you ?	[11:59]
asciilifeform	there is a (primitive) grid.	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ha-HA ? tax offers no guarantee.	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	as you recall, police is not obliged to serve you.	[11:59]
asciilifeform	no shit !	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	so... how do you put the subway on the donut shop's books!	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	this is no light matter.	[11:59]
asciilifeform	the king actually doing his thing is a best-effort affair aha.	[11:59]
asciilifeform	you can't put motherfucking collapse on the books.	[12:00]
asciilifeform	because it costs +inf.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	awww!	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	but but but...	[12:00]
asciilifeform	(not even maxint - you could pay maxint, theoretically.)	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	WHAT DO!	[12:00]
asciilifeform	the old ww1 saw.	[12:00]
asciilifeform	'whaddoido if a shell lands in my trench??'	[12:00]
asciilifeform	answer:	[12:00]
trinque	no everlasting life eh?	[12:01]
asciilifeform	'jump up twenty metres and scatter yerself around a bit'	[12:01]
trinque	lol	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	wwwwwwellllll then.	[12:01]
asciilifeform	there is no entry in the bookz for 'asteroid' either.	[12:01]
mircea_popescu	in case this is not obvious, transparent parallel to our bitbet adventures.	[12:02]
asciilifeform	no shit.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	hey, i dunno what posterity is like. maybe they're retarded.	[12:02]
asciilifeform	this is more or less a safe assumption.	[12:02]
mircea_popescu	i prefer to practice safe sex rather than safe assumptions.	[12:03]
asciilifeform	l0l	[12:05]
asciilifeform	the chicken story is lulzy	[12:07]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[12:07]
asciilifeform	i imagine every boy broke something when 'made to share' at some point	[12:07]
asciilifeform	but i never had a whole fucking chicken	[12:08]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu is the clear winner in the moar-orc contest.	[12:08]
asciilifeform	incidentally every time i open my idiot mouth and talk to colleagues, another one of my 'every boy must have...' assumptions drops like a fucking fly.	[12:09]
asciilifeform	sometimes it is chronological,	[12:10]
asciilifeform	e.g., i run into grown man who never saw msdos	[12:10]
asciilifeform	sometimes - not.	[12:10]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:11]
jurov	mircea_popescu: pls to mpex	[12:13]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434076 << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ??	[12:13]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 14:03:05; nubbins`: davout you have a 21.co?	[12:13]
asciilifeform	why would anyone buy ? i still dun get it	[12:13]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434092 << i learned one way to achieve this 'wonder' - doublespends followed by normal spend	[12:14]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 14:19:29; trinque: "" : -0.00020000	[12:14]
asciilifeform	wallet (incl. trb) ~much~ dislikes doublespends	[12:14]
asciilifeform	you end up with this barf.	[12:14]
trinque	I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva.	[12:14]
asciilifeform	trinque: neato!	[12:15]
trinque	too much manual lever-pulling at the moment	[12:15]
asciilifeform	trinque: what do you need to make this go ?	[12:15]
asciilifeform	imho the mega-reasonable thing to do, and the thing i would be doing right now if not sitting on a stake possibly, is to abstract out the wallet idiocy	[12:16]
davout	trinque: that -0.00020000 comes from the "accounts" mega-turd?	[12:16]
trinque	davout: yes	[12:16]
asciilifeform	which is to say, incorporate db calls into shiva	[12:16]
asciilifeform	and go from that to tx-crafting	[12:16]
asciilifeform	while staying in shiva.	[12:16]
trinque	asciilifeform: right, I would at least need sendrawtxn (can make txn elsewhere) but it would also be nice to have createrawtxn and signrawtxn I suppose.	[12:17]
trinque	I can do the latter two outside too	[12:17]
asciilifeform	you need the blockchain for this.	[12:17]
trinque	had my own external wallet db for btcd	[12:17]
asciilifeform	(at least in practice)	[12:17]
trinque	I was simply keeping a sqlite db of txns	[12:17]
trinque	hypothetically I would like to simply be able to inquire the balance of any address at any time	[12:18]
trinque	this seems heavy given the db structure used	[12:18]
asciilifeform	this is O(N) trinque.	[12:18]
trinque	yep.	[12:18]
asciilifeform	intrinsically.	[12:18]
davout	this "accounts" thing is such an abomination...	[12:19]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434210 <<< the rasperree-pee-that-can-also-mine-sort-of	[12:20]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 15:14:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434076 << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ??	[12:20]
asciilifeform	the notion of the machine undertaking to solve the knapsack problem is ludicrous in itself.	[12:20]
asciilifeform	and from it flow the other atrocities of the 'wallet'.	[12:21]
asciilifeform	is everyone familiar with knapsack ?	[12:21]
*	assbot removes voice from hybridsole	[12:22]
trinque	yep, you have finite volume and items of varying volume and value, want to pack the knapsack by optimal value	[12:24]
*	trinque worked on warehouse software in ancient days	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> but i never had a whole fucking chicken << seriously ?!	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	my sister killed more than these by being a kid and accidentally stepping on their heads than i can recall.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	trinque> I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva. << bless your heart.	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	davout> this "accounts" thing is such an abomination... << consensus on this since... 2011 ?	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	trinque i recall me losing my top over this back in 2013ish or w/e the first time bitcoin-idiocy got in the way of bitbet, being told "oh wait, this is an actual problem - we don't resolve problems, we write code here at prb!"	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	"Fix the motherfucking code before you have to be fired. To recap : a. If I want to make 1 Mb txs I make 1 Mb txs ; b. correct inputs are selected to feed the outputs as if a human or better was doing the selecting." << also march, as fate would have it.	[12:30]
davout	pretty much	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform how exactly is the notion ludicrous in itself ?	[12:34]
*	hybridsole (~hybridsol@c-67-177-114-112.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) has left #bitcoin-assets	[12:36]
*	funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: knapsack problem is this np-complete boojum for which you can, yes, have various crapsack approximations	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	so then.	[12:39]
asciilifeform	which is what we have in trb	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	not at all.	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	well... by some standard a brick is a computer, so sure.	[12:40]
asciilifeform	the tx selector thing	[12:40]
asciilifeform	for 'pay x btc to addr a'	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	~random	[12:40]
asciilifeform	machine solves 'from which unspent ins'	[12:40]
asciilifeform	poorly.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	even historical order would acvtually beat trb on this.	[12:40]
asciilifeform	the create-new-addr-every-time thing also guarantees fragging and pestilential multitudes of 'young' unspent coin	[12:41]
asciilifeform	as if the knapsack thing were not enough	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	both the "shittier than historical" and "new addr for change" bits are satoshi's dubious kludges to protect "anonimity"	[12:41]
asciilifeform	let's pile up moar, moar!111 variably-valued items for the solver!1111	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	except for a very poorly defined, mostly felt notion of "anonimity"	[12:41]
asciilifeform	^^^	[12:41]
asciilifeform	was the idiot justification aha.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	enemy could not possibly spend extra few 100 cpu cycles!1111	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	whitening.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	to recalculate the origin.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	aha.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	it is a really hard thing to pass.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	nanto or how do they call it.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	exercise in electrically-assisted self delusion	[12:42]
asciilifeform	like most kompyooooting claptrap.	[12:42]
asciilifeform	but anyway, unlike the pow wars or whatever apocalyptic thunderclouds, the wallet ~could~ be fixed if anyone gave half a fuck	[12:45]
asciilifeform	i kinda assumed formerly that mircea_popescu fixed it in his	[12:46]
asciilifeform	(not with own hands, naturally, but whatever makes mpb)	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	or, in the words of the ballas master, " Yet given the infinity of the internet you still surf the same 5 websites, looking for and finding exactly what you want, like a baby playing peekaboo in a mirror over and over and over and over and over and over and..."	[12:46]
asciilifeform	was surprised to learn that this was not so	[12:46]
trinque	fixed or removed and cauterized?	[12:46]
asciilifeform	fixed fixed.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	mircea_popesc-fixed	[12:46]
trinque	I was doing just fine without a wallet using btcd	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	you learned what how when ?	[12:46]
trinque	and shitting my own txns in from elsewhere	[12:46]
trinque	jumped onto trb intending to cause myself severe pain such that gears of progress and whatnot	[12:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: by implication, from various mircea_popescu gripes about tx-sending.	[12:48]
asciilifeform	pretty much all i know about mpb comes from these !	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	"on the basis of the leaks coming from the invisible aircraft we have learned that it is a duck."	[12:49]
trinque	does it float?	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	only in air.	[12:50]
asciilifeform	approx.	[12:50]
trinque	close enough	[12:50]
asciilifeform	when i see that birdshot works on it, i know it is prolly not a mig...	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	amateur hunter returns empty handed from swamp. "nothing but migs out there good god what's the world coming to!"	[12:52]
asciilifeform	from 'linux', lulz,	[12:53]
asciilifeform	# /etc/localtime is a symlink with glibc > 2.15-41	[12:53]
asciilifeform	^ how the FUCK is this any business of libc.	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	recall the threads about ntp, political time etc ?	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	like that.	[12:53]
asciilifeform	uhah.	[12:53]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433702 << it is what there is.	[12:58]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 11:03:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433648 << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos.	[12:58]
asciilifeform	i don't have another, functional os buried somewhere	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[12:58]
asciilifeform	for me right now it is gentoo or unabomber cabin.	[12:58]
hanbot	phf / anyone who mac-erizes or might mess with gpgtools, tell me menu option & any steps involved in exporting pubkey if you have a moment? i'm trying to put a eulora wiki guide together and these derps have like zero documentation.	[12:58]
asciilifeform	'perelman-os'	[12:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: fwiw the mask set i published here will build a depoetteringized (though not dedrepperized) gentoo, which will stay that way. but various more or less essential items, e.g., 'wireshark', will not build.	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	i am aware.	[13:00]
asciilifeform	there is a dedrepperized (experimental, musltronic) gentoo but it is VERY spartan	[13:00]
asciilifeform	e.g., no emacs.	[13:01]
asciilifeform	so not really os.	[13:01]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu ah so you tried it.	[13:01]
asciilifeform	i did not think anyone gave a fuck.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	why not ?	[13:01]
asciilifeform	because everybody here, afaik, already has some ruin he inhabits	[13:02]
asciilifeform	but i have nfi.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	you think like the man of a single woman.	[13:02]
asciilifeform	i speak like diogenes of a single barrel.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	!b 2	[13:03]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0MWNF9W.txt )	[13:03]
asciilifeform	though i have a few dozen mostly broken ones.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	everyone's a diogenes of a single candle.	[13:03]
asciilifeform	and single turtle, aha.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	actually that's a great name for the temple for this here cult,	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	Temple of the Diogenes of the Single Candle.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	teh dsc sounds like a pretty kickass patron deity, thinking about it.	[13:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00042006 = 27.997 BTC [-]	[13:05]
asciilifeform	much of modern tech is really reducible to 'let's give diogenes 1000w projector, he will surely find honest man!111'	[13:06]
mircea_popescu	hey, he wins at go.	[13:06]
asciilifeform	speaking of which, how about them 1900 cores.	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	what of it ?	[13:07]
asciilifeform	(from, iirc, 1200, after the machine loss)	[13:07]
asciilifeform	since when is this done.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	since forever ?	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	or hwat ?	[13:08]
asciilifeform	i distincly recall stipulation that all 5 games will be played against same thing ?	[13:08]
asciilifeform	or did i dream this.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	machine is not a thing in the sense here contemplated.	[13:08]
asciilifeform	being rather the collective best effort of the king's horses and king's men ?	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	the whole deal was something like "and lee sedol will now play the whole nation of china - elect a representative, or two, or whatever. the go competence of the entire han race is being judged"	[13:09]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433733 << i read it. marvelous tale. and - unsurprisingly - barfalicious hollywood film 50 yrs later.	[13:10]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 11:21:59; thestringpuller: you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo)	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	ahh this mango lassi.	[13:11]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1433736 << in some circumstances ~maladaptive~	[13:12]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 11:27:35; mircea_popescu: intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec".	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	notrly.	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	the adaptive behaviour is teh intelligence - the rest, will, if you will, or whatever.	[13:12]
asciilifeform	what if test is 'be not as large as a mouse, there is nothing to eat but for cockroach'	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	dumb mouse.	[13:13]
asciilifeform	sometimes it is maladaptive to be larger than roach	[13:13]
asciilifeform	where then, the intelligence.	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	and if it is, it's also unintelligent.	[13:13]
asciilifeform	in the end, the stone - who outlasts all - is most intelligent then.	[13:14]
asciilifeform	brick lisp !	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	notreally, as it doesn't adapt.	[13:14]
asciilifeform	this is not imho a very interesting concept of intelligence.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	but it is more reliably notstupid than people, for sure.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	why haet.	[13:14]
asciilifeform	l0l this was even in my brick article	[13:15]
asciilifeform	english folks say 'stopped clock is right 2x a day'	[13:15]
asciilifeform	beats a great many people aha.	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	now why'd you strawman the "adaptive behaviour" ? what the fuck do you care what the outcome is.	[13:15]
asciilifeform	i merely happen to live there.	[13:16]
asciilifeform	so not entirely indifferent to whether surrounded by cockroach	[13:16]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu lives on mt olympus with the other godz and naturally gives not a fuck	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	that you don't like the outcome is not cause to alter the definitions lol.	[13:16]
asciilifeform	evolutionary process is mega-adaptable but is not in any useful sense intelligent	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	behaviour!	[13:20]
asciilifeform	because cannot plan or 'think outside local maxima'.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	process is not behaviour.	[13:20]
asciilifeform	'be born a cockroach' is not behaviour of anything but evolutionary process	[13:21]
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mircea_popescu	so ?	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	i am sorry strawman doth not make much sense and commiserate !	[13:21]
asciilifeform	i commiserate that mircea_popescu thinks the 'idiot god' of hill-climbing optimizer is 'intelligence'	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	not what i said.	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	the root of the problem would seem to be the self-serving but otherwise bluntly unwarranted assumption that "intelligence is useful in all circumstances".	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	this is not so.	[13:24]
asciilifeform	pretty much what i said, no ?	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	no. you said maladaptive.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	that presumes you act on it.	[13:25]
asciilifeform	take the famous sea cucumber.	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	aite.	[13:25]
asciilifeform	'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task, it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore, so it eats it! It's rather like getting tenure.'	[13:26]
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mircea_popescu	must not be the same animal, sea cucumber i think of is an echinoderm.	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	it moves.	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	(actually it's the jumping champion, some 1km jumps)	[13:28]
asciilifeform	ah right	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, so animal that stops locomoting gives up brain cells used for handling that.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	recall pigeon experiments ? brain is plastic, takes over function of lost partys	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	at the expense of other processes, of course. so what of it ?	[13:30]
asciilifeform	aha.	[13:30]
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asciilifeform	this is adaptive.	[13:31]
asciilifeform	and the beast can't exactly grow a new brain if environment changes and it could take the chance of moving to a new rock.	[13:31]
mircea_popescu	so because enthalpy, you propose no commerce is possible.	[13:32]
asciilifeform	not in closed system !	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	non-closedness of a system is an accounting fiction.	[13:33]
asciilifeform	and this is where we find out that mircea_popescu stands outside heat death.	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[13:35]
asciilifeform	largely since i never get the sense he is discussing a place where he ~lives~	[13:37]
asciilifeform	vs some distant zoo	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	also duck ?	[13:37]
asciilifeform	prolly goes with the job.	[13:37]
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asciilifeform	i can see it already: harem gurl: 'i stepped on rusty nail!' mircea_popescu: 'here's an impregnation, perhaps after 20 generations your descendants will have shell armour on their feet'	[13:39]
asciilifeform	'meanwhile have a rusty knife'	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	did i ever recall the story of the slavegirl that had never seen railroad tracks ?	[13:40]
asciilifeform	nope	[13:40]
trinque	"here's an impregnation" << lolol	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	so we go to cross some tracks and i say "careful not to touch the shiny parts!" and she carefully steps to not touch the shiny parts.	[13:40]
asciilifeform	who the fuck has not seen railroad ? blind gurl ?	[13:40]
asciilifeform	wat?!	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	later finding herself at a good time for such, inquires why parts were shiny ?	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	"because trains go on them, polish them"	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	"so then why not step on them ?!"	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	"no reason."	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	"i thought it was something with electrictiy!!1"	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not all people come from europe you know.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	who else has rail ? new england ?	[13:42]
trinque	portland wants to be yurp bad enough to have put some in	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	aokthen!	[13:42]
asciilifeform	there are rails here!	[13:42]
trinque	couple of hipster chicks get flattened by it per year	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	trinque funny, was same in india!	[13:42]
asciilifeform	every day 1000 tonnes of coal went past my old flat	[13:42]
asciilifeform	and there were a few splats also.	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i wonder why asciilifeform is so convinced that one may only see the truth of things that don't affect them personally.	[13:43]
asciilifeform	prolly because 20 pack a day mathematics habit	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	what is this. mayhap the explanation isn't that mp lives in a heat-death immune dirigible (upgraded from atomic) but simply... does not care ?	[13:43]
asciilifeform	i am reminded of dan mocsny's 'whichever one of us leaves usenet first is the Real Man' mega-flame	[13:44]
asciilifeform	(moscny - won.)	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	how ?	[13:45]
asciilifeform	he left.	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	no, how are you reminded	[13:45]
asciilifeform	ah the not-caring olympics l0l	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	but look at the jump : 1) unexplained item can be explained by a or b ; 2) it's a b-olympics!	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	what goes from 1 to 2 ?	[13:46]
asciilifeform	side thread	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	the jump is the mechanism at issue here nevertheless.	[13:46]
asciilifeform	well, to re-connect the frags, i take issue with everett's device as problem solving tool, because if you admit it, none of the other things we do make any sense	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	these are as far as i've seen the two mindbugs of the republic : a) A -> B therefore B-> A, ie backflow ; and b) the above.	[13:47]
asciilifeform	why not just fellate our pistols every morning while enemy is still alive ?	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	there is no capacity of sense in phenomenology.	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	nothing "makes sense" in the sense you want it to.	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	ethics (ie, the mechanism to answer "what should i do") is a very severely limited science.	[13:48]
asciilifeform	so why is mircea_popescu eating cake and not rusty nails ?	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	will. not intelligence.	[13:49]
asciilifeform	and contemplating trbtronics, rather than praying to vishnu ?	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	because i can.	[13:49]
asciilifeform	but can also these other things.	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	why did the man get out of bed ? he could stay in bed, regress to childhood and whatever, paint posters to show mommy.	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	yes, i can also these other things.	[13:50]
*	asciilifeform swaps gas mask cartridge	[13:50]
trinque	why did the shark swim when it could stop?	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	(ever wondered, btw, why some men favour ugly, unattractive women ? the freudian explanation is exactly above - they seek to reunite with mother, in which case sexual appeal is a hindrance not an asset.)	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	trinque shark swims to breathe tho.	[13:51]
trinque	right, I know	[13:51]
asciilifeform	https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << lulzy wankage in commentz	[13:52]
assbot	BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No \| closed 1 week 16 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )	[13:52]
trinque	"why does it feel good to will things into being?"	[13:52]
asciilifeform	was this dear old nubs?	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	who ?	[13:52]
asciilifeform	bbet anons raging	[13:52]
trinque	ask the dumb hill-climbing optimizer?	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	i dunno.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	trinque possibly the least offensive koan of the lot is the one with "why did i rescue the scorpion ? it is my nature!"	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	rarely was i so happy to hear of a monk's demise.	[13:53]
asciilifeform	there are many fables where a scorpion kills a man, but is this actually possible ?	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	i think some but not most are venomous enough.	[13:54]
asciilifeform	(short of allergic shock)	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	of course - a bee can kill a man, if it's the right bee and the right man.	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[13:54]
trinque	http://transform.to/~dragondm/lit/koans << heh not bad	[13:54]
assbot	404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1pukQsF )	[13:54]
trinque	penultimate	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	bad restating. they took out the dying part - very indicative of the cocksucker sort they are.	[13:56]
asciilifeform	who's they	[13:58]
asciilifeform	translator?	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	they is teh community.	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	mno. the numerous lee sedols of that pointless boardgame.	[13:59]
asciilifeform	speaking of	[14:01]
asciilifeform	i'm kinda surprised the whiners aren't here yet	[14:02]
asciilifeform	(re bbet)	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	bar too high ?	[14:02]
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asciilifeform	nubbins`: i will ! ty	[14:07]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: soon as i get home.	[14:07]
asciilifeform	l0l	[14:08]
asciilifeform	i actually considered buying some b00kz from nubbins`	[14:08]
asciilifeform	but now i am too p00r.	[14:08]
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asciilifeform	ftr i enjoyed the photos from 'whale & other disorders.'	[14:09]
asciilifeform	nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr	[14:13]
trinque	mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself?	[14:47]
*	trinque gets a vpatch	[14:49]
asciilifeform	http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2016/03/the-wrong-kind-of-victory.html?m=1 << orl0l	[15:07]
assbot	ClubOrlov: The wrong kind of victory ... ( http://bit.ly/22mIx3T )	[15:07]
asciilifeform	where he discovers turkeydollarz...	[15:08]
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trinque	http://dpaste.com/0YKDMWF << miserablol	[15:27]
assbot	dpaste: 0YKDMWF ... ( http://bit.ly/1UgeARG )	[15:27]
*	trinque will put his awk shitwaders on later	[15:28]
trinque	anyhow, looks like polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch needs rebasing	[15:33]
trinque	http://dpaste.com/34Y62T4.txt << these press	[15:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1R3zduP )	[15:36]
trinque	http://dpaste.com/179T4JC.txt << bad press with polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch	[15:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1R3zL3M )	[15:40]
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*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[15:45]
trinque	wb funkenstein_	[15:48]
funkenstein_	greetings trinque :)	[15:48]
funkenstein_	i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment	[15:49]
funkenstein_	copper lark was first i saw to use it	[15:49]
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asciilifeform	funkenstein_: keccak-with-hash-over-arbitrary-blocks-pulled-from-chain	[16:00]
asciilifeform	('proof of storage')	[16:00]
asciilifeform	as per mircea_popescu's article	[16:00]
funkenstein_	which part of that article is worth discussing?	[16:02]
funkenstein_	its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought	[16:03]
phf	trinque: yeah, polarbeard_better_log_messages depends on a conflicting patchset	[16:04]
phf	trinque: specifically, http://btcbase.org/hash/02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3	[16:05]
assbot	patches for hash 02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1UA4udk )	[16:05]
phf	depends on deprecated asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum's version of main.cpp	[16:06]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: which problems ?	[16:07]
phf	and this one too http://btcbase.org/hash/BB842420BCC67752EDF8E658524B135F499C5F8676557A6C12F47F204303E34BD73BEABDF6E9146BA452947C4E5CD298529969FAB90F16942F6BF0C1229F7043, asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring which is also deprecated	[16:07]
funkenstein_	see jurov's comment	[16:07]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: i mean, ~other~ than it being a hardphork	[16:07]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: link plox ?	[16:07]
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phf	trinque: i say, press to polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file, then patch -p1 < polarbeard_better_log_messages, then vpatch the result, then do same for polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc. that's sort of easiest, fastest way to regrind	[16:08]
funkenstein_	http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116397	[16:09]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UEI3BP )	[16:09]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell shinohai pls to submit it	[16:10]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:10]
shinohai	Here it is BingoBoingo but ill have to resubmit, stoopid Obama went and named someone else to scotus. http://dpaste.com/3164N6J.txt	[16:11]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UA5xtD )	[16:11]
BingoBoingo	pls do that then	[16:11]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1183 << i had nfi this existed. a whole own poetteringism, hilarious, touches ~all binaries on affected pseudolinuxen, ruins aslr and number of other things, random (!) crashes, ardent defenders (ahaha), etc.	[16:28]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:28]
assbot	#1183 (Don't enable prelink by default in Fedora)	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	uh.	[16:31]
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asciilifeform	the comments are mindblowing.	[16:36]
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asciilifeform	http://lwn.net/Articles/341244 << drepperism!	[16:40]
assbot	Is pre-linking worth it? [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1R3Iv9X )	[16:40]
asciilifeform	^ worth reading for the commentz	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	what is pre-linking ?	[16:43]
*	mircea_popescu discovers that he can't rightly say what fedora even is. is it what, a distro ? some sort of centos ?	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	what ?	[16:43]
jurov	fedora is opensource kitchen for redhat	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	ah right.	[16:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: there is no legit thing called prelinking	[16:45]
asciilifeform	it is a poetteringization of the ordinary glibc execution process	[16:45]
jurov	and prelinking is writing directly to the binaries/ dynamic libs what virtual memory address are they going and which addresses can all the other depending libraries found at	[16:45]
asciilifeform	where the items, having been linked dynamically, are pseudo-staticized periodically (!) by a cron job	[16:45]
asciilifeform	badly.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	my meagre understanding of computing doesn't allow me to discern the intended meaning.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	"pre fuck" i can imagine what'd be. pre linking... no.	[16:45]
mircea_popescu	uh	[16:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it is a highly bizarre idiot hack nominally to 'save cycles' but really 'because ftmeade asked'	[16:46]
mircea_popescu	but what does it do ?	[16:46]
asciilifeform	and this being unusually transparent, in a cartoon way	[16:46]
jurov	basically it's like "printf has address 0x000002254fe5450"	[16:46]
jurov	and every binary that calls it gets written this addy in it	[16:47]
asciilifeform	sometimes hoses entire box, see epic http://lwn.net/Articles/340121	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	what	[16:47]
assbot	Why people don't test development distributions [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1UAbLd8 )	[16:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it is sorta like a cache for dynamic linking	[16:47]
asciilifeform	or claims to be.	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	i see.	[16:47]
asciilifeform	today it exists at all only in the most direly diseased pseudolinuxen	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	so what it this supposed to achieve for the putative enemy, make proper allocation impossible or what ?	[16:48]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it gives excuse to munge every single executable on the box	[16:48]
asciilifeform	also demolishes aslr	[16:48]
asciilifeform	and creates a number of other interesting difficulties	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	ah right because stuff like hashes no longer mean anything	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	so what is this, excel-polymorphism ?	[16:49]
jurov	it's supposed to avoid determining where the actual printf is located every time you run some program, which can be solved byt other and better means	[16:49]
asciilifeform	discussing an item like this is almost like anatomizing a teratoma	[16:49]
asciilifeform	as if it were an actual animal	[16:49]
asciilifeform	it is quite far from whatever actual purpose it was conceived for.	[16:50]
mircea_popescu	hey, anatomizing teratoma is exactly how noobs learn cytopathology etc.	[16:50]
asciilifeform	aha!	[16:51]
asciilifeform	hence why i put it on the dissection table here.	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	why the cron job	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	shouldn't this run at the beginning every time ?	[16:52]
asciilifeform	it does.	[16:52]
asciilifeform	and then again, and again...	[16:52]
asciilifeform	WHAT IF YOU HAVE NEW BINARY!111111	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	then let me run it first ?	[16:52]
asciilifeform	that must be victi^H^H^Hoptimized	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	Hoptimized lol	[16:52]
asciilifeform	hopetimized.	[16:52]
asciilifeform	changimized.	[16:53]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform inasmuch as he steal speaks of "its money", orlov doesn't actually get the turkey dollars thing. he earnestly thinks that there is ONE kind of usdollar, and PART of that one is "wasted". whereas the situation in the field is that there's two kinds, ands the bezzle part can only be bezzled with.	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	but anyway.	[16:53]
asciilifeform	anyway prelink was supposed to solve problem of 'why linux box takes multiple minutes to boot'	[16:54]
asciilifeform	via plugging wrong end of funnel, naturally	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck boots them	[16:54]
asciilifeform	no one (tm) would ever, say, remove the idiot sea of crud	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	i still don't get this. all this derpage from the early days of systemd "it makes servers boot faster"	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	dude...	[16:54]
asciilifeform	that takes up the boot time	[16:54]
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asciilifeform	not servers.	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	this was an actual argument illo tempore.	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, who reboots linux.	[16:54]
asciilifeform	laptop folk	[16:55]
asciilifeform	they have no working sleep mode, recall.	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	if a box goes down trying to figure wtf takes 10x to 100x longer than it takes t oboot	[16:55]
asciilifeform	typically.	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	fuck laptop folk.	[16:55]
asciilifeform	they're pre-fucked, the notion was to slightly unfuck'em	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	no. stop interfering with god's will.	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	they deserve to suffer for their portasins.	[16:55]
asciilifeform	(it was 100% fraudulent, as you might expect)	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	"• It spends it on a bunch of aircraft carrier groups. These are very useful for launching attacks on defenseless countries. But it is very important to keep these aircraft carriers outside of conflict zones that may involve China or Russia, or even Iran, because each of these countries has several cost-effective ways to destroy an aircraft carrier: ballistic missiles, supersonic cruise missiles and supersonic torped	[16:57]
mircea_popescu	oes. The entire aircraft carrier fleet is obsolete, and is another huge waste of money." <<< aaaaactually... romania has the capacity to sink us carriers. so does israel. so does brazil	[16:57]
mircea_popescu	so does half the fucking world already. it's not 1990 anymoar.	[16:57]
mircea_popescu	lol re aegis-khibiny thing tho. funny how that's not at all discussed in english huh.	[16:59]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: pretty sure everybody knows about the surface torpedo etc	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	prolly the russians just elbowed the something or other.	[17:01]
asciilifeform	it officially Unexists for the purpose of the comical 'war games' the pentagon conducts.	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	and of fucking course the army of dead empire is the nest of corruption. wtf. jannissary corps v2.0	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	i forgot what the chinese thing was called, but anyway.	[17:03]
asciilifeform	one look at the boats and it is pretty obvious that their purpose is ~not~ to fight in battles	[17:03]
asciilifeform	but to move inventory	[17:03]
asciilifeform	logic being, if it burns down and takes 30 f-whateverthefuck planes to the bottom of the sea, so much the better! buy moar!	[17:04]
asciilifeform	;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ?	[17:05]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[17:05]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434522 << how much is it ?	[17:08]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 18:50:31; funkenstein_: i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment	[17:08]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2016#1434528 << you thought wrong. a bunch of nobodies declared idiocies about things in their head, generally on reddit/medium/wherever they gather.	[17:09]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2016 19:04:24; funkenstein_: its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought	[17:09]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ? << WHAT?!?	[17:14]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-take-third-brother-into-custody-in-shooting-of-police-officer/2016/03/14/74b97f36-e9e6-11e5-b0fd-073d5930a7b7_story.html	[17:14]
assbot	Brothers filmed attack on police station that left officer dead, authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1PctO2i )	[17:14]
asciilifeform	etc	[17:14]
asciilifeform	schmuck walks into police station, spins round and round For Piglet	[17:15]
asciilifeform	cops then open up, killing at least one among selves	[17:15]
asciilifeform	shooter's brothers film whole thing.	[17:15]
BingoBoingo	Interesting mortadella there, will qntra unless you direly want to do it	[17:17]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: as usual, take it	[17:17]
asciilifeform	i have nothing.	[17:17]
BingoBoingo	Ok, I just suggest it because I know few things as refreshing for the mind as digging into an especially lulzy incident for qntra.	[17:18]
asciilifeform	i would do 10,001 things if had time but i do not,sadly.	[17:18]
asciilifeform	(things incl this)	[17:18]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/02258P0.txt << deturdified that article for you	[17:33]
asciilifeform	neato	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so wait, an hero killed no-one, police did all the murderin' ?	[17:38]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: I also found this on LTM within neural nets: http://colah.github.io/posts/2015-08-Understanding-LSTMs/ << It looks as if LTM is possible but pretty complex (gates within the NN itself)	[17:39]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Any idea where the video is? I can't seem to find it on "World Star Hiphop"	[17:39]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: nfi	[17:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: correct	[17:40]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Aspiring 'An Hero' Survives Police Station Assault - http://qntra.net/2016/03/aspiring-an-hero-survives-police-station-assault/	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:44]
BingoBoingo	Just to be pedantic 'An Hero' is the technical term for anyone acting with intent to off themselves	[17:45]
BingoBoingo	In this sense Ford was a failure	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[17:46]
BingoBoingo	Meanwhile Lavoy Finicum was a hero because he was fighting the powah	[17:46]
BingoBoingo	;;google an hero	[17:46]
gribble	An Hero \| Know Your Meme: ; Urban Dictionary: an hero: ; An hero - Encyclopedia Dramatica:	[17:46]
BingoBoingo	By running the initial blockade Finicum was clearly excercising his duty to evade in an effort to continue the fight later	[17:50]
BingoBoingo	Also the FBI did squeeze of a couple shots before his hands went anywhere near his waistband	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	;;bc,stats	[17:56]
gribble	Current Blocks: 402984 \| Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 \| Next Difficulty In: 215 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[17:56]
BingoBoingo	;;nethash	[17:57]
gribble	1218294335.6	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	jurov done.	[17:58]
jurov	ty!	[17:58]
deedbot-	[Qntra] America Rejected By All But Its Worst - http://qntra.net/2016/03/america-rejected-by-all-but-its-worst/	[18:01]
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asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: where do i get the correct lsd to digest that article.	[18:05]
funkenstein_	BingoBoingo, you saw the footage from inside the Lavoy Finicum mobile?	[18:06]
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BingoBoingo	funkenstein_: decline to comment	[18:15]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Which?	[18:16]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: If you are talking Kasich the correct lsd is the one that extracts lulz from setting the man up to fail.	[18:17]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: life - or what passes for life - in usaschwitz - happens on the coasts.	[18:19]
BingoBoingo	I don't know anything of these coasts.	[18:19]
BingoBoingo	The Bahamas gang's reign is ending and the electoral progress is a mess in an effort to rig the contest in Clitler's favor. Qntra however has to prepare for lulztingencies. Among these is a contested convention.	[18:20]
BingoBoingo	Seriously though I know nothing of Coastal life in USia	[18:21]
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BingoBoingo	I know places where actual food happens seasonally and mass food is recycled in the fields though the Corn Cycle. I rightly can't believe the Coast or Death phenomenon as anything other than a form of Stockholm syndrome.	[18:24]
shinohai	join #verge	[18:24]
shinohai	shit	[18:24]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[18:38]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.37, vol: 4238.65955648 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.825, vol: 5827.13841 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.17, vol: 6827.4166771 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.962284, vol: 23502.07510000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.335, vol: 1466.60524061 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 424.402224, vol: 61.35244944 \| Volume-weighted last average: 418.104775095	[18:38]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[18:38]
gribble	Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick.	[18:38]
asciilifeform	http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/news/20030701/nth-country.pdf << historic lulz (unrelated.)	[18:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1S4POAE )	[18:50]
asciilifeform	(warning: massive scan)	[18:50]
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BingoBoingo	http://phys.org/news/2016-03-storks-winter-migration-favor-junk.html	[19:54]
assbot	Storks give up on winter migration in favor of junk food ... ( http://bit.ly/2552Jtv )	[19:54]
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mats	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p72KRQwYeMo	[20:02]
assbot	Failed Attack Of Russian Terrorists On Ukrainian Armed Forces. (English subtitles) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/2553tyF )	[20:02]
BingoBoingo	In other news Orange Clinton is threatening riots if the RNC convention denies him the nomination	[20:02]
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mircea_popescu	that's a new one.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck is supposed to have made that youtube video ?	[20:11]
mircea_popescu	"directly to that bush" ? srsly ?	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	nobody can be this inept. "armed forces" ? ffs.	[20:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00042004 = 8.9679 BTC [-] {2}	[20:21]
mats	amateur hour	[20:33]
mod6	o/	[20:40]
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mod6	<+trinque> mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for v.pl? would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? << hey, uumm... so yeah, i think it does tell you which one barfed on press. did you use (v \| verbose) in there? or have a dpaste of what it did?	[20:41]
mod6	also: /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string << i think you can resolve this locally by installing gawk	[20:43]
mod6	anyway, I see you patch, thanks for posting. when I get around to making another version of V, i'll throw that in there.	[20:44]
mod6	s/you/your/	[20:44]
*	assbot gives voice to trinque	[20:45]
trinque	k, ty	[20:45]
mod6	mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque phf, et. al., I've been mulling it over while i've been following the logs for some days now about what seems like a good fork to have in our possession: at this point, im inclined to think implementation of Mr. P.'s outlined ideas are the best choice, currently.	[20:46]
mod6	However, my main objective is still to finish up the v054 release before diving into any of that quite yet. It's my fault, I havent done jack-shit all month basically. I've been meaning to work with trinque and get these makefiles battle-ready, but have had a number of meatspace things get in the way.	[20:48]
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mircea_popescu	eh no matter of fault mod6	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	the thing is, the more features the putative fork has, the better, i suppose.	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	except by features i don't mean "features". obviously.	[20:53]
mod6	hehe, ofc.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	healing the relay-miner divide, if in fact the thing on trilema does it, would be a great one.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	but possibly there's other easy fruit to pick	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	too bad i constantly strangle the easy fruit pickers. if only they fucking picked in THAT direction ffs.	[20:54]
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jurov	mod6: Mr P.'s outlined ideas would benefit from deeper adversarial analysis, maybe it comes out it's possible only 1000 times slower using rainbow tables or other techniques I proposed in the comments	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	jurov quite so.	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	dja understand the amended form we came to well ?	[20:55]
mod6	jurov: ah, very much so.	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	maybe it'd benefit from a going over once more.	[20:55]
jurov	yes pls	[20:56]
mod6	i like what i've read, more analysis and discussion of implementation decisions are required for sure. i think we'll get there as this thread continues over the next 45 days.	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	ok. so currently, for every block being mined : a header is calculated ; to this a nonce is added, the combine hashed. the resultant hash has to be smaller than a number to qualify as a found block.	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	word ?	[20:56]
jurov	yes	[20:57]
mod6	ya.	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	in the proposed model : a header is calculated, same way. to this, anonce is added, the combine hashed. this is hash 1. a digest is calculated, on the basis of past blocks. to this, the SAME nonce is added. the combine hashed. this is hash 2	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	BOTH hash 1 and hash 2 have to be under a number to qualify as a found block.	[20:57]
mod6	ok and this goes back to the discussion this am right? re: sha(header+nonce) AND sha(digest+nonce) ? or did i read that wrong?	[20:58]
jurov	how is the digest from past blocks done?	[20:59]
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mircea_popescu	it does. i specifically left the "hashing" undefined. it can be defined so both use sha3. or first stays as is and 2nd sha3. etc.	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	this is a twistable knob.	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	jurov the digest from past blocks is done like so :	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	out of every Nth preceding block, the nonce-th byte is put in a string ; the combine hashed.	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	N is another twistable knob. can be 1, can be whatever.	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	see footnote 2, example : http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#footnote_1_64828	[21:01]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S52R51 )	[21:01]
mod6	ah right.	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	and yet another twistable knob exists : the nonce may be shifted before taking the nonceth element.	[21:02]
mod6	it's too bad we're so time constrained on this, it'd be nice to see a poc of both : with shifting and without.	[21:02]
mircea_popescu	knob 1 above decides whether to obsolete current miners entirely or just partially, and is a [true] soft vs hard fork ; knob 2 decides how much i/o pressure to put on relay nodes ; knob 3 decides how much relay work to require in the mix.	[21:03]
mod6	well, i guess one could just add in the shifting and then make it a toggleable things.	[21:03]
mod6	-s	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	mod6 it's not entirely impossible to make the shifting a function of difficulty differential (note that there isn't a rule BOTH hashes have to be under THE SAME number. if there's two numbers, you could have an equalizer algo that does the shift moving)	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	but, obviously - the more moving parts, the more problems.	[21:04]
jurov	well then my comment still applies - miner can keep the nonce constant and churn hash1 by changing one transaction in a cycle	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	jurov how ? his hash2 won't change.	[21:04]
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jurov	ah that	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	my modeling shows it'd be way the fuck cheaper to calculate nonce blocks than to try and churn merkel trees	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	now, your observation is correct in that this possibility puts a hard limit on how much miners can be raped.	[21:06]
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mircea_popescu	but i don't think SUCH hard rape is contemplated at all.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	just... a little breather for nodes.	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	the thing is, currently nodes only need disk ; cpu is wasted. ideally a node should use both, so that it makes sense to keep boxes as relay nodes.	[21:07]
mod6	all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs.	[21:08]
mod6	we need like a tmsr stenographer.	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	lol. i dunno, there is the search here.	[21:09]
jurov	there's wiki	[21:09]
mod6	yeah, but i can't ever find shit. and these details are too important to be lost.	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[21:09]
mod6	unless we use a flag, like BUTTSECKS.	[21:09]
mod6	then we search for that flag, and we see exactly where we should for whatever important topic.	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	wrap every important detail in a buttsekcs condom ?	[21:10]
mod6	hah, yes.	[21:10]
mod6	dare i say, that I would lay out 10 BTC, 2 BTC per year for someone to handle this task.	[21:11]
mod6	hell, i'd do it myself, but there's no way i can keep up with that too.	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	first foundation expenditure ?	[21:12]
mod6	naw, this is a mod6 request.	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it.	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	better that way.	[21:12]
mod6	the foundation makes money by not spending any.	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs,	[21:12]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it. << i guess i could just do that.	[21:13]
mircea_popescu	be like rockefeller you know ?	[21:14]
mod6	ben_vulpes: any thoughts on this? If I dump 10 BTC to the foundation, will you approve 2BTC/yr for a stenographer?	[21:14]
mircea_popescu	course the other end is harder. who can even do a good job of this.	[21:14]
mod6	bingo.	[21:14]
mod6	hanbot	[21:14]
mircea_popescu	hm	[21:15]
mod6	jurov (who's got too much other shit to do)	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	yeah maybe she could huh	[21:15]
mod6	asciilifeform (who is one arm shy of this job)	[21:15]
mod6	shinohai perhaps	[21:15]
mod6	I'd even say TomServo or thestringpuller would be good candidates as well. Any wot regs.	[21:16]
*	shinohai applies	[21:17]
davout	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434765 <<< blawg?	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	yeah but it's a certain sort of job for a certain sorta person.	[21:17]
assbot	Logged on 17-03-2016 00:09:59; mod6: all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs.	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	shinohai you got the patience to stick with it ?	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	davout by all means, you got one neh ? :D	[21:17]
shinohai	what would stenographer need to do?	[21:17]
davout	i saw this one coming :D	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	write down a summary of all the important shit.	[21:18]
mod6	The key to this job is to save the really succint details of technical discussions surrouding future development. Needs just the right amount of information, too much will be cumbersome.	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	sorta like a careful bash of technical discussions rather than lulz.	[21:18]
mod6	right.	[21:18]
mod6	that exactly.	[21:18]
davout	!b 3	[21:18]
shinohai	so make a state of therealbitcoin address for dummies?	[21:18]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0TKYJM2.txt )	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:18]
mod6	heheheh	[21:18]
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mircea_popescu	shinohai no more like keep the notes organised so mod6 doesn't go blind looking for where the fuck i said about knobs and where was it.	[21:19]
mod6	shinohai: eh, I'd say more like a really well kept-up wiki, but yea, that's kinda the idea.	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	actially a wiki format prolly IS best for this,	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	because lets people to fix your shit if needed.	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	mod6 word.	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	WHY DOES EVERYONE IN THIS CHAN STEAL MY IDEAS ALL THE TIME	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	right before i get to say them!	[21:20]
mod6	nod yeah, needs to be editable in a way incase of mis-quote or something.	[21:20]
jurov	like... http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/tmsr	[21:20]
assbot	tmsr [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1XYs04a )	[21:20]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434782 << l0l i know where	[21:20]
assbot	Logged on 17-03-2016 00:14:09; mircea_popescu: and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs,	[21:20]
asciilifeform	they are in my yard	[21:20]
asciilifeform	eating from plastic bowl	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	cats !?	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	yo cwazy.	[21:20]
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asciilifeform	except they aren't people but catz	[21:20]
mod6	jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there.	[21:20]
asciilifeform	cause who else lives on 2btc!	[21:20]
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mircea_popescu	and for the record alf you stole my v idea too!	[21:21]
asciilifeform	which	[21:21]
mircea_popescu	i dunno, they were all good.	[21:21]
mod6	well, no one said you were gonna live off of 2 BTC a year, unless you live on the dock and eat fish-heads for dinner every night.	[21:21]
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mod6	but it's a hell of a lot more than you get when you just volunteer for some shit.	[21:21]
mircea_popescu	one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc.	[21:21]
asciilifeform	^^^	[21:22]
mod6	nod	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	ask not what yer country can do for you!	[21:22]
mircea_popescu	for currently, it can at most get you in trouble, and that if you're lucky.	[21:22]
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mod6	I'd even be open to the idea of two people splitting up the work there. Say, split 2BTC/yr between 2 individuals so that we get good coverage at all times.	[21:23]
mod6	Work amongst yourselves to decide who's on duty when so you don't have to worry if out of town or at whorehouse or whatever.	[21:24]
*	asciilifeform reads logz to see wtf this even was	[21:24]
*	assbot gives voice to kakobrekla	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ?	[21:24]
mircea_popescu	dude it's gotten so bad ~i~ have to ask for tmsr-pravda articles be translated.	[21:25]
*	asciilifeform misreads as 'wordstar hiphop'	[21:25]
kakobrekla	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434837 < the very same btc said to be worthless/useless/br0kended a couple of days ago	[21:25]
assbot	Logged on 17-03-2016 00:23:07; mircea_popescu: one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc.	[21:25]
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funkenstein_	aha a separate hashing of solely the proof of storage digest, this looks like it could work	[21:25]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: neh, the other btc	[21:25]
mod6	kakobrekla: if you don't like the weather, just wait a few days.	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla slightly not the same.	[21:25]
mod6	:P	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	but do link with the quotes.	[21:26]
funkenstein_	could be added in a la myriad, with separate difficulty	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	funkenstein_ what is this myriad ?	[21:26]
*	mircea_popescu is starting to suspect this lecherous dwarf may be the only one who cavorted with the scamcoins enough.	[21:26]
funkenstein_	its a coin with multiple difficulties for each hash function they use	[21:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30592 @ 0.00041989 = 12.8453 BTC [-] {2}	[21:26]
funkenstein_	hehe, likely guilty as charged	[21:27]
kakobrekla	im sorry what other btc, the non existing one ?	[21:27]
kakobrekla	afaik the real bitcoin foundation collects btc not imaginary btc (at least bbet was sending those)	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	!s worthless	[21:28]
assbot	499 results for 'worthless' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=worthless	[21:28]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: the one which nobody ended up dumping massive qty of, the price of - not tanked, etc	[21:29]
*	funkenstein_ retracts myriad scheme suggestion, it is broken	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	shock.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2016#1434864 <<< obligatory >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqT2uOa1-d0	[21:31]
assbot	Logged on 17-03-2016 00:29:57; mircea_popescu: !s worthless	[21:31]
assbot	The Brave Little Toaster - Worthless (No Interruptions) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlDtv1 )	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	no but srsly. am i gonna also !s "dump massive" or you get the point.	[21:31]
funkenstein_	so in this suggested coin you have proof a pool operator (aka miner) has a full copy of the block chain	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	l0l lavabit case unsealed	[21:35]
asciilifeform	(unrelated)	[21:36]
ben_vulpes	mod6: could be convinced	[21:37]
mod6	ok, cool	[21:38]
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asciilifeform	https://cryptome.org/2016/03/usg-lavabit-unsealed.pdf << mega-turd	[21:43]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, at #eulora : http://dpaste.com/29BJV3V	[21:43]
assbot	dpaste: 29BJV3V ... ( http://bit.ly/1RlElzH )	[21:43]
asciilifeform	the court transcript is pure circus	[21:45]
asciilifeform	worthy of freisler	[21:45]
davout	mircea_popescu: btw, pls to read last x.eur statement, contains statement of collateral to be certified by mpex	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	which was the lavabit ?	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	davout i did read it. you had 40 btc deposited iirc, neh ?	[21:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: cryptome link, scan	[21:45]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no i know, but which was it ?	[21:46]
davout	mircea_popescu: yes	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	alrighty then.	[21:46]
asciilifeform	pg 80 iirc	[21:46]
davout	danke schön	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	oh oh the email thing, i recall now	[21:47]
asciilifeform	aha.	[21:47]
asciilifeform	the usg-gets-paper-masterkey one	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	yaya	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	i don't get all these people participating in "sealed" pseudo-legal proceedings.	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	there is no justice outside of the public forum. if party can not speak in public, it may not pretend like it has a case.	[21:50]
asciilifeform	bbbbbbut s333333kr1tz!11111	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	tough titty.	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	don't engage in activities you're ashamed of.	[21:51]
mircea_popescu	if you do - don't come to me to bail you out when they blow up.	[21:51]
asciilifeform	that'd be ~all of this here zimbabwestan aha.	[21:51]
asciilifeform	and at any rate none of these folks work in 'justice' business, they work in 'societal security' aka hitler's service.	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	sucks to be them, i guess.	[21:53]
funkenstein_	asciilifeform how long did you live in zimbabwe?	[21:53]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: the great zimbabwe of usistan	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	he lives in washington dc and doesn't care for term propriety.	[21:54]
asciilifeform	'92 - present	[21:54]
asciilifeform	train stations still closed !	[21:54]
funkenstein_	so you are comparing usistan to a place you know nothing about?	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	eh whadda ya need 'em for.	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	you ever been funkenstein_ ?	[21:55]
funkenstein_	nope	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	aok.	[21:55]
asciilifeform	but he is very ready to 'you know nothing' aha.	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	i think he dislikes your cultural imperialism.	[21:56]
funkenstein_	you seem to like talking about it, i assumed you'd been there	[21:56]
mircea_popescu	"in my mind - i've been many times"	[21:56]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: rhodesiana aficionado	[21:56]
funkenstein_	:) cool	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	what, zimbabwe is in rhodesia ?!	[21:57]
asciilifeform	funkenstein_: and of subj of countries-not-on-the-map-no-moar overall	[21:57]
funkenstein_	get a new map if you need one	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	http://www.newzimbabwe.com/news-28242-Zim+embassy+buildings+in+ruins+Parly+hears/news.aspx kinda lulzy.	[21:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ==	[21:58]
assbot	Zim embassy buildings in ruins: Parly hears ... ( http://bit.ly/21vZ5nW )	[21:58]
funkenstein_	lol, with thumbs up even	[21:59]
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BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ? << It's basically black youtube for fights and shit	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	aok	[22:01]
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mircea_popescu	and in other dribbles, http://40.media.tumblr.com/8994722978b9ab1525d2899ed7c7d611/tumblr_mir1m6gTvy1s40vqwo1_1280.jpg	[22:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RlFFCL )	[22:02]
BingoBoingo	Anyways worldstar isn't a tmsr thing, it's more an internet thing. basically If you sucker punch someone it is normally assault. If you shout "World Star" while you do it, it becomes instead a prank.	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	ah i remember now.	[22:04]
BingoBoingo	Just one of those black privilege things	[22:08]
asciilifeform	;;later tell mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/3RR5F37.txt << have another lul	[22:36]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[22:36]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QZjTkM )	[22:36]
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asciilifeform	http://www.elweb.cz/fotky/400.jpg << interesting serendipitous find. a cpu-less rs232 viewer (some brain required!111) i thought about this very thing some years ago, and laughed it off mentally, but someone - built.	[23:01]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/255iz7q )	[23:01]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[23:38]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[23:38]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[23:38]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[23:38]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform awww.	[23:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: l0ltr0nic	[23:40]
asciilifeform	phf et al: to continue the eprom thread, i was never satisfied with the lights box answer to 'how to keep rom burner from lying'. what i really want is a photographic rom, where the storage die is something like 'microdot' and the reader is generic (in chip package) & separable.	[23:41]
asciilifeform	microdot is trivial to reproduce reliably	[23:41]
asciilifeform	100 y.o. tech.	[23:41]
asciilifeform	bonus if the photo slide is ~composable~	[23:42]
phf	microdot?	[23:42]
asciilifeform	i.e. i can insert >1 on top of one another.	[23:42]
asciilifeform	microdot.	[23:42]
phf	ah, ok, got it	[23:42]
asciilifeform	the ultimate vpatch !	[23:42]
asciilifeform	anyway this is page [redacted] from ye old 'coffin notebook'.	[23:43]
asciilifeform	presented here because thread.	[23:43]
phf	this is a borderline art project	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	^	[23:44]
asciilifeform	it is in re the 'specificity of diddling' thing.	[23:44]
asciilifeform	enemy can embed extra mosfet in the reader, or whatever, but how does he know ~where~, etc.	[23:45]
phf	kind of stuff i'd see come out of martin howse's workshop (and his people)	[23:45]
asciilifeform	(and say i can hook up N of these, and the net result is xor of the lot!)	[23:45]
asciilifeform	^ then they can contain literally ~anything~ and still produce my intended bitstring.	[23:45]
mircea_popescu	dude, the "enemy" has enough trouble finding its own arse.	[23:45]
phf	defending against hypothetical lizard alf	[23:46]
asciilifeform	enemy can be persuaded to make a good faith effort to at least occasionally find his arse	[23:46]
asciilifeform	esp. if we keep kicking him in it.	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	but not much more.	[23:46]
asciilifeform	anyway hopefully everyone understands against whom my designs are actually made.	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	and in other borderline art project news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/3470835acf69ddd9f2d81b5c341340d5/tumblr_ntnoh08fJz1s3qr6wo1_1280.jpg	[23:47]
asciilifeform	they are built with the assumption that i will eventually be cokemachined personally and somehow made to fight for the nazis.	[23:47]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1pMLuwQ )	[23:47]
asciilifeform	it is a dismal thing, to play chess with self.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	srsly.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	but how else.	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	gurlz!	[23:48]
asciilifeform	not like i got anybody worth playing.	[23:48]
asciilifeform	l0l	[23:48]
asciilifeform	phf: i am long-time fan of howse.	[23:49]
asciilifeform	though i know him as '1010'	[23:49]
phf	oh, ok, now things make even more sense	[23:49]
asciilifeform	'The Dark Interpreter is influenced and guided by body capacitance, skin resistance, biological micro-voltages and the fleshy conduction of all signals. These are ways of saying that the Dark Interpreter is completely open. It is not to be considered as a closed and bounded device which is subject to an exterior control "by the body." The Dark Interpreter is an electronic and thus earthy shadow of the body, it is (inside) the	[23:50]
asciilifeform	body. The Dark Interpreter is thus not to be controlled. It is an obsidian electronic mirror, the earth and skin itself.' << i lack the wordz.	[23:50]
asciilifeform	'Inspired in part by a cursory reading of Kafka's short story, In the Penal Colony, in which a complex executable mechanism, its workings and social procedure, are described, a mechanism which inscribes the sentence (of the law) directly on the skin of the 'Condemned Man', pain registers attempts to directly translate or transfer the operational codes which are running on a computer's CPU (Central Processing Unit) in 'real tim	[23:52]
asciilifeform	e' (whilst a common program such as the Firefox web browser is running) into the slow and painful inscription of a needle, piercing the skin of the operator or user's hand. A particular, common operational code such as that dictating the movement of the contents of one place in memory to another location, results in the needle achieving a certain depth in the hand, another opcode, say demanding the addition of two values, migh	[23:52]
asciilifeform	t barely touch the skin of the hand. The repetitive rhythms of changing operational codes, as an application for example initialises its opening state, are translated into the hypnotic, up and down movements of the needle (making use in the second prototype of a CD-ROM ejection mechanism), appearing somewhat like the slowed, jerked motions of a sewing machine.'	[23:52]
asciilifeform	^ mega-art.	[23:52]
asciilifeform	i have not, it turns out, been keeping up with the fella.	[23:53]
asciilifeform	why isn't he here, again?!1111	[23:53]
asciilifeform	'If codes can fuck your computer, where’s the porn that depicts them?' << him	[23:53]
hanbot	mod6:	[23:54]
hanbot	jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there. << i'd be happy to help out however i can. how far back do you see this having to go btw?	[23:54]
asciilifeform	http://www.1010.co.uk/org/psplague.html << glorious	[23:57]
assbot	psplague ... ( http://bit.ly/1XwydmB )	[23:57]
asciilifeform	'Inspired by Julian Oliver's psworld, psplague further explores the links between environment (simulation) and code. Rather than mapping a computer's internal processes onto visual features in the world (as in the case of psworld), in this instance (psplague) UNIX-like processes are attached to medieval villagers within a simple SIR (susceptible, infected, recovered) model of plague infection. When a villager becomes infected	[23:57]
asciilifeform	and dies after a period of time, the attached process running on the computer is terminated or killed. Warning: psplague can result in a more or less instantaneous hard crash.'	[23:57]

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