Forum logs for 16 Mar 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
BingoBoingo ;;nethash [00:00]
gribble 1197205513.09 [00:00]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [00:00]
gribble Current Blocks: 402861 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 338 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 43 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [00:00]
trinque phf: you see how your sentences have... content ? [00:01]
trinque heh, thanks. [00:01]
* AaronvanW has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [00:10]
* AaronvanW (~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:22]
* Transisto2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [00:40]
mircea_popescu adlai [00:41]
assbot xkcd: Free Speech ... ( ) [00:41]
* Transisto2 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:42]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b1f8:fb4:be1f:8436) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:42]
adlai mircea_popescu: i found it and submitted a second comment, but both seem to have caught in the lo-pass [00:46]
adlai my bad, the first has percolated through... maybe it's just all the tube-clogging [00:46]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [00:48]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [00:57]
asciilifeform << wat?! [01:02]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 01:28:59; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like "here's a list of my deepest unrelated fears" ? [01:02]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:03]
asciilifeform << [01:04]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 01:55:56; mircea_popescu: trinque iirc the bitcoin-derived one had two parts named 1 and 2 which you both need [01:04]
assbot Logged on 21-02-2016 00:38:10; asciilifeform: please throw out the old crud. [01:04]
asciilifeform ^ mandatory thread [01:04]
asciilifeform << go ahead and plug the mains cord into your arse if you want. but then complain to somebody else, not to me, when the bulb doesn't light. [01:04]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 02:18:59; adlai: rules were made to be broken, buttons elbowed, and backs broken later. [01:04]
* mixdio_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [01:04]
asciilifeform << dingdingdingding we have a winner !11 [01:05]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 02:53:58; phf: trinque: it's not about "not doing things", pressing tinyscheme genesis is just not the right way to get shiva [01:05]
asciilifeform << aha [01:05]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 02:56:58; phf: trinque: as per that rant only things needing pressing are asciilifeform_shiva_part_1_of_2, asciilifeform_shiva_part_2_of_2 and asciilifeform_shiva_fix_flag_bug [01:05]
* _flow_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [01:05]
* mixdio ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:05]
* _flow_ ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:06]
asciilifeform << win. [01:07]
assbot Logged on 15-03-2016 19:45:51; deedbot-: [Trilema] xkcd - [01:07]
asciilifeform << don't use the vendor's os. for anything. unless whole thing is a gag gift to an enemy. [01:08]
assbot Logged on 15-03-2016 23:05:37; BingoBoingo: I suspect it will have to graduate from a pogo to an "edgerouter lite" sometime in the next few months. [01:08]
asciilifeform and even when you install own os, remember that there is no rng. [01:08]
asciilifeform on the box. [01:08]
asciilifeform as on most routers. [01:08]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu have a mindphuck - turns out google admits to having jacked up the cpu core count after the single solitary lee sedol win. [01:09]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:09]
phf asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken? [01:14]
phf i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted [01:16]
asciilifeform phf: strictly this, [01:16]
assbot Logged on 03-03-2016 17:24:15; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: << preliminary crib sheet [01:16]
phf kk [01:16]
phf also [01:16]
assbot The Tunnels of Cu Chi: A Harrowing Account of America's Tunnel Rats in the Underground Battlefields of Vietnam (9780891418696): Tom Mangold: Books ... ( ) [01:16]
* asciilifeform buys. [01:17]
phf it has a very pro-american/anti-communist bias (and there's a very surprising, complete lack of any SU mentions), but full of fascinating stories of vc tunnel based warfare [01:19]
asciilifeform pretty much all american war lit reads like hans rudel [01:19]
asciilifeform (at best) [01:19]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b1f8:fb4:be1f:8436) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:23]
phf it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics [01:24]
* NewLiberty has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [01:33]
* shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [01:34]
* shesek ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:35]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [01:40]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:43]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [01:46]
adlai deedblog-: [01:46]
assbot ... ( ) [01:46]
adlai oops [01:46]
adlai deedbot-: [01:46]
assbot ... ( ) [01:46]
deedbot- Bad URL or network outage. [01:47]
adlai oops [01:47]
adlai deedbot-: [01:47]
assbot ... ( ) [01:47]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [01:47]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:04]
* trixis (~trixis@2601:280:4102:c7de:b81a:278d:dabb:b5d) has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:08]
* trixis is now known as Guest54420 [02:09]
* Guest54420 is now known as trixisowned [02:09]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:10]
* twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [02:11]
* massiro (d2eb356c@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:22]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:34]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:40]
phf asciilifeform: were you starting with stage3 or earlier? [02:48]
* CrazyTruthYakDDS has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [03:09]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( )) [03:09]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [03:10]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:16]
adlai ;;later tell trinque deedbot- seems to have choked again [03:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [03:33]
* adlai fantasizes that his 'jewish wit' was sharp enough to bridge the silicon sarchasm [03:34]
adlai hehe, maybe i just wrote the , robot edition [03:45]
assbot Monty Python's Flying Circus - World's Funniest Joke - YouTube ... ( ) [03:45]
davout <<< did someone ring? someone need a loan? [03:53]
assbot Logged on 15-03-2016 23:10:27; mircea_popescu: o i forgot the jews, did i. THREE KINDS. [03:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51200 @ 0.00042051 = 21.5301 BTC [-] [04:25]
* gribble has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [04:39]
* gribble (~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble) has joined #bitcoin-assets [04:50]
* ChanServ gives voice to gribble [04:50]
* AaronvanW has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [05:26]
* AaronvanW (~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:39]
* TheAdversary has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [05:44]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [05:47]
* TheAdversary (~adversary@unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:56]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:06]
adlai what's the custom for voicing freenode webchat nobodies? (at least replying with "who may you be" gets them to shut up.) [06:17]
adlai sorry massiro, should I have said "fix your connection"? [06:17]
adlai massiro: (and all future !up-please-ers): introduce yourself politely via pm, or ask somebody else. [06:18]
adlai !down adlai [06:18]
* assbot has kicked adlai from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.) [06:18]
BingoBoingo !up massiro [06:27]
* assbot gives voice to massiro [06:27]
massiro Thank you. [06:27]
massiro I wanted to share info about the payout problem with Jeb-Bush-Nomination. [06:30]
massiro I wonder if you remember me... [06:31]
assbot Logged on 05-01-2016 05:55:53; massiro: The above site says the fee is 0.001 BTC so I think it is more than enough. Is this related to low/high S value problem? [06:31]
massiro I'm sad to hear the Jeb Bush payout accident... [06:31]
massiro I think it has something to do with the release of Core-0.12 (23rd February 2016). [06:32]
* liead (~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [06:32]
massiro And the spam attack revealed the problem. [06:32]
massiro First of all, Core-0.12 stops 0-fee tx relaying during spam attacks. [06:33]
massiro Secondly, Core-0.12 abolished mining 0-fee txes by default. [06:33]
massiro I have written a (small) wall of text at, regarding the causes of the payout problem. [06:34]
assbot Not Found ... ( ) [06:34]
massiro Thank you BingoBoingo for giving me a voice! [06:37]
BingoBoingo yw [06:37]
massiro To adlai's asking, I'm an occasional bettor at bbet. Sorry to omit introducing about myself. [06:47]
deedbot- [] X.EUR March 16th 2016 statement - [06:56]
* assbot removes voice from massiro [06:57]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [07:07]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets [07:29]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [07:35]
* AaronvanW has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [07:38]
* AaronvanW (~ewout@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [07:47]
* AaronvanW has quit (Changing host) [07:47]
* AaronvanW (~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw) has joined #bitcoin-assets [07:47]
thestringpuller classic starts own node cartel: [07:50]
mircea_popescu << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed! [07:58]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 04:03:22; asciilifeform: << wat?! [07:58]
mircea_popescu << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos. [08:02]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 04:15:31; phf: asciilifeform: hey, was there anything else posted re gentoo de-poetering besides the initial chicken? [08:02]
mircea_popescu << for my own curiosity and the calibration of public judgement, how many lines, how many hours ? or something ? [08:02]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 04:16:51; phf: i was about 50% into the logs that i missed, when i switched back to reading "the tunnels of cu chi" (mega book), so not sure if the gentoo recipe was posted [08:02]
mircea_popescu << i dunno why you think this odd. as far as my experience goes, 100% of english language literature (long before the days orwell quit and his naive, square jawed colonial subjects took over the pretense of empire) is exactly this "here are our assumptions, which clearly paint us as utterly and hopelessly stupid, let's lampshade it and carry on". i don't think by n [08:05]
mircea_popescu ow english speaker even realises there's a disconnect between what the words mean and what his actions do. [08:05]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 04:25:15; phf: it's very odd because guy completely discredits american position in the first few chapters, yet for the rest of the books it's noble american victories vs surprisingly successful vc tactics [08:05]
mircea_popescu which, ungenerously enough, seems just a step away from the breakdown specific to shitholes like argentina, where people altogether don't even comprehend words are in any sense meaningful, above and beyond the chirping captive populations of chickens do to reassure each other. [08:05]
mircea_popescu massiro it's an interesting theory, apart from the fact that nobody uses core in production, or has for many years now. [08:09]
mircea_popescu yes, various derps on poorly connected boxes still play with it. this is about as relevant to the discussion as considering what machines aspiring webcomic designers use when discussing pixar or something. [08:09]
mircea_popescu might as well say "it's because pogos", which would be equally flattering just in a different direction and otherwise equally afield. [08:10]
thestringpuller lol. p. sure 90% of current pixar staff at one point were aspiring webcomic designers... [08:11]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller yes, but they don't come with their own home fucking computers. [08:11]
mircea_popescu nobody goes "i'm going to hire joe, he's kinda meh but he has a kickass workstation!". [08:12]
mircea_popescu in fact, the difference between THAT approach and what actually happens is exactly the difference between infantile and adult life. [08:12]
mircea_popescu in roadtrip they go "we gotta take the weirdo - he has a car". [08:12]
thestringpuller sure asking truckers to fix toy truck [08:12]
thestringpuller fo shizzle. node is almost up to date 200 blocks left [08:13]
mircea_popescu i mean yes, it's true that most of the firemen are kids that played with fire trucks. it is however quite pointedly not true that most of the equipment down at the fire station is toy fire trucks brought in by conscientious neighbourhood kids. [08:13]
thestringpuller perhaps the toys should change. much more useful to work on toys that signal real life than say plastic thing on wheels. [08:14]
mircea_popescu this entire "look what prb does" is so much cosmo kramer from kramerica industries fixing the fire dept. what was that episode [08:14]
thestringpuller the secret code? [08:15]
mircea_popescu "the secret code" [08:15]
mircea_popescu yeah. [08:15]
assbot Seinfeld Scripts - The Secret Code ... ( ) [08:15]
thestringpuller "Meanwhile, Kramer buys a police scanner and decides to help at the New York City Fire Department. When they receive a call about the fire at Leapin' Larry's, Kramer accidentally knocks out the fire engine driver, forcing him to take the wheel, realizing his lifelong dream. However, he is unable to steer correctly and crashes the fire engine, allowing the fire to spread further." [08:15]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:16]
thestringpuller admittedly Kramer is pretty much a modern VC wet dream. some of the stuff he sells that's "successful" is just... [08:16]
mircea_popescu a coffee table book about coffee tables! [08:17]
thestringpuller for instance the coffee table book about coffee tables that can turn into a coffee table [08:17]
mircea_popescu lol [08:17]
mircea_popescu kinda how decay goes : stuff is the butt of jokes and "how stupid can these stupid people be", then next decade - sop. [08:17]
thestringpuller you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo) [08:20]
thestringpuller sometimes I wonder if we went down another path where the educational toys actually make the next generation more stupid. i always thought it interesting that "children of the future will be smarter" [08:22]
* adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:24]
mircea_popescu well... computers of the future will be better, right ? [08:25]
mircea_popescu intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec". [08:26]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [08:26]
mircea_popescu (no, no, intelligence is not a THING. it is a behaviour. like dancing.) [08:26]
thestringpuller severe lack of education, these days. perhaps not enough beating. or enough starving for dropouts. [08:27]
mircea_popescu or any incentive whatsoever. [08:27]
adlai thestringpuller: main problem these days is too much bitcoin, they've printed 15 million already and show no signs of stopping [08:28]
adlai massiro: cool wall! sorry about the impoliteness. [08:29]
mircea_popescu adlai you can just up unknowns, they'll resolve it soon enough. [08:30]
mircea_popescu what you shouldn't do is up known idiots, but few resist the temptation. [08:30]
adlai meh, i spam enough myself, no need to facilitate spamming by schroedinger's idiots. [08:30]
adlai but thank you for the blanket permission :P [08:31]
thestringpuller reminds me of conversation I had with CVS cashier. dude was fresh out of high school and I began explaining how banks worked cause I was furious the ATM fees were 5 bucks in that store. anyhow after 5 minutes of confusion cause kid didn't pay attention in school states, "I ain't trynna think that hard man. I'm done with school." [08:32]
* adlai tried explaining bitcoin to a flatmate, seven different ways. each time explanation was met with "why can't people just use money". known idiot is now a former-flatmate. [08:33]
thestringpuller sure why not live in ignorance. get your 8.50/hr from CVS, blow it on rent, pot and booze, continue on. no incentive for agency. just a programmable cog. [08:33]
thestringpuller frighteningly similar to brave new world. (give em soma and carry on) [08:34]
mircea_popescu adlai i don't see the problem with this objection ? "they are. that's what i'm telling you. you don't use greek bronze weights, do you ?" [08:34]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller hey, life is good, whadda ya want. partay! [08:34]
adlai ah, so bitcoin is just another mettle, like gold, iron, greek bronze, and mental fortitude? [08:34]
mircea_popescu well, money's a whore, kinda old by now, consequently keeps changing her attire. [08:35]
adlai indeed the local rabble love to shout, "BITCOIN ZE BARZEL" [08:35]
adlai well if i ever meet the guy again, i'll be sure to tell him mircea_popescu thanks him for not buying his divestment. [08:36]
thestringpuller ;;later tell asciilifeform Finally experienced the stuck node thing. Interesting behavior. Wouldn't even accept the "stop" command. Had to kill -9 it. [08:37]
gribble The operation succeeded. [08:37]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i guess let them live in ignorance as long as said ignorance doesn't interfere with the adults? [08:38]
mircea_popescu everything interferes with everything. [08:38]
thestringpuller i never really liked babysitting. [08:38]
mircea_popescu this "doesn't interfere" thing's a pregnant fiction. [08:38]
thestringpuller why open a nice school in the ghetto, if it'll just get defaced two weeks later? [08:39]
adlai yet a precise interferometer is about as feasible as a trustworthy kyristor [08:39]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [08:41]
asciilifeform << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu [08:41]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 10:59:58; mircea_popescu: << nothing you said in the lengthy diatribe following had anything at all to see with the topic proposed! [08:41]
asciilifeform pope or no pope [08:42]
asciilifeform for anyone who missed the thread, it concerned capitulation to the enemy [08:42]
asciilifeform blew my mind that any such thing was on the table [08:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, this'd be what i mean. capitulation what ? [08:43]
mircea_popescu the queston was, what the fuck are we going to do ! [08:43]
asciilifeform and ~i~ will have no part of it. [08:43]
mircea_popescu dude again ? [08:43]
mircea_popescu you will have no part in what ? [08:43]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: any alignment with a usg-enriching or dimon-enabling phork [08:44]
mircea_popescu and how does this relate to what was being discussed ? [08:44]
mircea_popescu i don't fuck guys. ok. so ? [08:44]
asciilifeform or introduction of material from either into a future trb [08:44]
mircea_popescu again. how is this related to what was being discussed ? [08:44]
asciilifeform did i misthtead or what [08:45]
mircea_popescu you misread so amply it boggles the mind. [08:45]
adlai mircea_popescu: you did say we may have to choose the lesser of two evils [08:45]
mircea_popescu IF [08:45]
mircea_popescu ~~~~~IIIFFFFFF~~~~~ [08:45]
asciilifeform this was re the 'strategy' thread, no? [08:45]
mircea_popescu we have nothing to propose of our own [08:45]
mircea_popescu THENNNNNNN we will have no fucking good choices to make. [08:45]
adlai other than "no fork"? [08:45]
adlai there is no spoon, nor a fork. there is a knife, and it lowers kelvin. [08:46]
asciilifeform but we have, e.g., a spiffy mircea_popescutronic item from last month [08:46]
mircea_popescu adlai wouldja think for a moment ? if miners fork tomorrow, pre-miner-fork trb will not be defensible. because bitfury (you know, kakobrekla's friends) have access to vc capital, and will bridge the gap between us printing press and chinese mining. [08:46]
mircea_popescu should have fucking killed those derps back when they were nobody and losing bitbet bets, [08:46]
mircea_popescu HOWEVER we didn't, because hey, maybe they do somethign good [08:46]
adlai so you're specifically suggesting a "reset PoW" fork? [08:46]
mircea_popescu in the end, what they did was they sparked through the dielectric. [08:47]
asciilifeform adlai: read mircea_popescu's keccak article [08:47]
mircea_popescu adlai i'm specifically suggesting we better stop flailing emotionally and fucking think, because things are not going well. [08:47]
adlai asciilifeform: i can't find this article. do you mean the "necessary prerequisite" one? [08:48]
kakobrekla dunno about friendship - i havent been able to reach bitfury in years [08:48]
asciilifeform i dun flail, i sit on sharp telephone pole and keccak on lunchbreakz.. [08:48]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern. [08:49]
mircea_popescu but... i want to believe. sure. [08:49]
asciilifeform holyfuk wat?! [08:49]
* thestringpuller just walked into the x-files [08:49]
kakobrekla nfi [08:50]
asciilifeform i can't wait to learn to whom ~i~ somehow betrayed the motherland [08:50]
asciilifeform mtgox? [08:51]
adlai fwiw, i sincerely doubt miners would "let core devs decide" if they believed "economic consensus" were against the devs; but this leaves open the problem of convincing them of this. [08:51]
* adlai does not control economic consensus, nor the miners [08:51]
mircea_popescu adlai they believe the rewaerd havling will kill them, which it well might ; and they see the opportunity with all the core/bitcoin-xt/blabla. will they take it ? [08:52]
mircea_popescu IF they do, WHAT DO WE DO. [08:52]
asciilifeform adlai: do you not see the problem of having 'konsensoooos' in he mix at all ? [08:52]
kakobrekla asciilifeform apparently im accused for working for the dark side now, somehow ? [08:52]
adlai asciilifeform: partially, although the market price of forkchains makes consensus crystal clear - but only in retrospect. [08:53]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: that was the implication? unless i'm thick [08:53]
kakobrekla well, rate away! [08:53]
mircea_popescu there's a difference between "i know x" and "i don't know x". [08:54]
adlai mircea_popescu: hmmm. ok, this is a valid question, my answer to which is: port Luke-Jr's keccak reset from "classic" to trb, and be ready to activate it, should a fork occur. [08:54]
adlai but i don't think trb should initiate a fork. [08:54]
mircea_popescu at no point was it proposed that trb does. [08:55]
asciilifeform adlai: who said anything about porting some derp's turd [08:55]
mircea_popescu the entire thing was, we should take stock of the situation, and make some judgements and plan some plans in a complete and responsible manner. [08:55]
mircea_popescu just like we [at least theoretically/aspirationally] write code [08:55]
mircea_popescu ennumerate the fucking states and test! [08:55]
adlai asciilifeform: "port" in the loose sense of the word. let's rephrase that as "some poor code monkey should write a keccak vpatch for trb, but nobody should ever have to use it" [08:55]
asciilifeform adlai: nuke must be tested. [08:56]
adlai of course, this is why we have ATC [08:56]
asciilifeform on live vermin, to be effective. [08:56]
thestringpuller had* [08:56]
mircea_popescu so again : 1) ~IF~ summer/july becomes the summer of forks, what do we do ? [08:56]
mircea_popescu 2) IF miners come out with their own fork, what do we do ? [08:56]
asciilifeform i liked mircea_popescu's algo! [08:56]
thestringpuller what about the 5% needed to veto softforks? [08:57]
adlai asciilifeform: you never answered my question. which is mp's keccak article? [08:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform please note that it was strictly example and not design work ready for implementation. [08:57]
mircea_popescu adlai pretty sure the one you said. [08:57]
adlai ok, i also like that idea, although as you said yourself, it's not fully baked yet. i also like that it can be initially opt-in, with an ultimatum that it gets 'hardened' by some date, if it hasn't 'softened' by then. [08:58]
asciilifeform the only thing i would change is to retain old capital distribution, then keccak has a chance at continuing old schellingpoint. [08:58]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:58]
mircea_popescu see, now for some reason we're talking on point. [08:58]
mircea_popescu i dunno wtf i shoulda done different so this happened a week ago rather than now. [08:58]
asciilifeform adlai: you can't 'soften' powe [08:58]
adlai asciilifeform: mircea's suggestion is implementable as a soft fork. [08:58]
mircea_popescu it is ? [08:59]
adlai ie, only miners ~must~ enforce it; once nodes also do, it hardens, and then miners can't choose to reverse the previously-soft fork. [08:59]
asciilifeform no, wtf! [08:59]
mircea_popescu i'm confused. [08:59]
adlai until it hardens, miners could reverse. [08:59]
asciilifeform adlai: holy fuck, 2 pows?! [08:59]
adlai no. [08:59]
asciilifeform wh? [08:59]
adlai we're probably talking about different articles. [08:59]
* adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn" [09:00]
adlai which is possible to launch as a miner-only fork, which nodes can choose to enforce, but don't have to; and then at some later date, all nodes enforce it, and miners know they must keep enforcing it, too. [09:00]
asciilifeform adlai: [09:01]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [09:01]
thestringpuller i like how bitcoin mining manufacturers don't even shy away about it: "this is the most powerful miner available to ~the public~" what miners are available to the private? [09:01]
adlai asciilifeform: we're talking about the same article. read what i just said, it is about that idea. [09:01]
adlai thestringpuller: all the ones that matter [09:01]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller might just be boilerplate. replace "to the public" with "on god's own earth". [09:02]
asciilifeform adlai: i utterly fail to grasp how this is an idea [09:02]
mircea_popescu can't make this sorta judgements on the basis of fucking copywriting. [09:02]
asciilifeform wtf is a 'miner-only fork' [09:02]
adlai asciilifeform: it's an idea because it means that the "#b-a fork" isn't a hard-fork that can fail. [09:02]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno, the crowning of five years of complete neglect of the relay network ? [09:03]
mircea_popescu "dun matter anyway!" [09:03]
adlai as opposed to "let's make our new blocks incompatible" [09:03]
adlai breaking consensus is a hard fork. narrowing it - soft. [09:03]
mircea_popescu ok. [09:03]
mircea_popescu that much we agree on. go on. [09:03]
asciilifeform adlai: [09:04]
assbot Logged on 20-10-2015 22:10:51; ascii_field: 'we'll make trucks over five tonnes switch sides first!' [09:04]
adlai well what do i go on about? ultimately the whole hard/soft thing is a terrible terminology, verging on false dichotomy. [09:04]
* adlai shuts up and attends to private matters [09:04]
mircea_popescu adlai you go about deductively showing your proposal from the shared basis. [09:05]
mircea_popescu if, then. [09:05]
asciilifeform again how the fuck can pow switch be 'soft' in any sense ?! [09:05]
asciilifeform it dun get any harder than pow switchout [09:05]
adlai aha, here's the misunderstanding. my proposal was not a pow switch. [09:05]
mircea_popescu but the article was ? [09:05]
thestringpuller get the miners to execute themselves willingly - softfork. [09:05]
adlai mircea_popescu: correct. i was hallucinating an alternate article, which said to [09:06]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 12:01:30; *: adlai is talking about "hash bits of old blocks into the coinbase txn" [09:06]
asciilifeform softfecalmatter is how we got here. [09:06]
* adlai adjusts meth-lsd dosage accordingly to reduce hallucinations [09:06]
mircea_popescu i dunno what all that was but anyways. [09:07]
asciilifeform adlai: this is ~exactly~ the old joke with the trucks [09:07]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform keeping old coinbases has the advantage and the disadvantage of keeping old coinbases. [09:07]
mircea_popescu yes, schelling point to continue, yes with the same idiots/geniuses as before, and thus at a lower adoption interest. [09:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the advantage is that we become distinguishable from the usual idiot attempts at self-enrichment. [09:08]
mircea_popescu certainly. [09:08]
asciilifeform the disadvantages - legion. [09:08]
thestringpuller this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing. [09:08]
mircea_popescu i'm not pushing it either this way or that, just want to get all the things on table if possibru. [09:09]
asciilifeform it could even make sense to fight on 2 fronts at once. [09:09]
asciilifeform keccak-clean and keccak-trbchain. [09:09]
thestringpuller clean? [09:10]
mircea_popescu (and generally i dunno why this shortcircuit between facts and judgement became fashionable here, seems much too close to the habits of the "independent" demographic for comfort. trust me, if i want to say x i will say it in those exact words, as i have without exception to date. saying i don't know x means i do not know. and similarly, here, and so on. i totally can speak for myself, say what i mean etc.) [09:10]
asciilifeform nowhere is it written that tmsr will field exactly one weapon. [09:10]
mircea_popescu this much is very true. [09:10]
mircea_popescu which was part of my initial wtf at your initial reaction. [09:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sleep of reason breeds monsters etc [09:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my reaction now is same as then, i am willing to take part in 1,000,001 variants but not in capitulation to the motherfuckng nazis [09:12]
mircea_popescu yes yes. good. [09:12]
asciilifeform if i wanted to wear brown all i gotta do is, understand, cross the street [09:12]
asciilifeform but i dun wanna. [09:12]
mircea_popescu i think the record well reflects this. [09:13]
asciilifeform (last night for example i formally turned down the 'encouragement' to try out for 'top secret' and may very well be sacked eventually because of it) [09:14]
mircea_popescu so your idea is, that we of course continue to maintain trb as is, but also develop a keccak pow variant, for use in case of forks ? or vice-versa, in case of forks develop it ? [09:14]
asciilifeform aha. [09:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform lol hey, life of your parents! funny how this works! [09:14]
asciilifeform quite! [09:15]
mircea_popescu how would it go, that commenter's proposal ? [09:15]
asciilifeform which? [09:15]
mircea_popescu lemme fish it out [09:15]
mircea_popescu [09:16]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [09:16]
mircea_popescu basically, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest), and BOTH must be < difficulty. [09:16]
mircea_popescu well, hm, that doesn't work as stated [09:16]
mircea_popescu what i read there was, have TWO hashes : sha(header+nonce) and sha(digest+nonce) [09:17]
asciilifeform keccak is an 'accordion' [09:17]
mircea_popescu and obviously, gotta be the same nonce. [09:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform keccak for this purpose counts as sha-3 [09:17]
asciilifeform and properly stretches to fit the while thing [09:17]
asciilifeform Whole thing [09:17]
mircea_popescu that's not the problem, the merkle tree jiggling is the problem. [09:17]
asciilifeform yes but it doesn't need the idiot chaining [09:17]
mircea_popescu there was no sha(sha( contemplated [09:18]
mircea_popescu or you mean something else ? [09:18]
asciilifeform linked comment [09:18]
mircea_popescu ah ah. that's just assumption imported from current codebase, not intentional. [09:18]
asciilifeform also the hashing-the-header thing is possibly evil [09:19]
mircea_popescu the valuable idea there is, imo, that you have to keep the same nonce to calculate both sha values. which ACTUALLY does work, or seems to me to work, to do what the article proposes [09:19]
asciilifeform enables pools. [09:19]
mircea_popescu ie, give nodes a way to make money for cpu usage. [09:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it can stay as PART of it tho. [09:19]
mircea_popescu see, the beauty of this is that it is a TRUE soft fork. [09:20]
asciilifeform sure. [09:20]
mircea_popescu ie, you still need the old gear + new gear. [09:20]
asciilifeform how? [09:20]
mircea_popescu not in the faux sense of "soft" used before. [09:20]
asciilifeform ok now i'm thoroughly lost [09:20]
mircea_popescu (well, it ~can~ be at any rate) [09:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ask a question ? [09:20]
asciilifeform i thought we were bugspraying the old gear people. [09:21]
mircea_popescu we CAN. [09:21]
asciilifeform for their crimes. [09:21]
mircea_popescu we don't HAVE TO. [09:21]
mircea_popescu winning is all about preserving your fucking options. [09:21]
mircea_popescu in the pow1 = sha(header+nonce) and pow2 = sha(digest+nonce), the first sha can even stay what it is now. [09:21]
asciilifeform i can see preserving old capital allocation re coinz [09:21]
asciilifeform but hash power distrib? lunacy [09:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform same argument could be presented in reverse, also. [09:22]
mircea_popescu to plenty, present coinbase allocation = lunacy. [09:22]
mircea_popescu after all, do you know how much usg stole so far ? do they have more than satoshi yet ? if not yet, when ? [09:23]
asciilifeform it depends on who the reader sees as musting die, no? [09:23]
mircea_popescu eventually, yes ? not like satoshi is adding any. [09:23]
mircea_popescu if only it were so simple! [09:23]
* DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets [09:23]
asciilifeform the available evidence suggests that, like a bike thief, they steal to ~sell~ [09:24]
asciilifeform !s waterfall [09:24]
assbot 119 results for 'waterfall' : [09:24]
mircea_popescu but this does not detract from their capacity of selling. [09:24]
mircea_popescu if one day they come to their senses, what then ? [09:24]
mircea_popescu "sell" ? to whom ? etc. [09:24]
* assbot gives voice to shinohai [09:24]
mircea_popescu im sorry, "detract from their capacity of stealing" is what i meant. [09:24]
asciilifeform then, as described in mircea_popescu's articles, they become just another player [09:25]
shinohai <<< yup :) [09:25]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 12:09:47; thestringpuller: this kills SPV mining tho, which is good thing. [09:25]
mircea_popescu not those senses, their other senses. [09:25]
asciilifeform waiwut [09:25]
asciilifeform how would this look? [09:25]
asciilifeform 'from now on we sit on all we steal so we can dump in a decade' ? [09:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform usg currently steals to sell. perhaps. this does not reduce their capacity to steal in the future. if in the future they steal to hoard, or if the stuff they "sold" was just facade, through preserving coinbases we are baking in not just the original satoshi, but also an evil satoshi. [09:26]
asciilifeform and meanwhile let it 'go to moon' ?! [09:26]
asciilifeform evil satoshi is likewise present in any fork, unless you're convinced - and i am not - that enemy cannot win arbitrary pow miner buildout race. [09:27]
mircea_popescu this is also true. [09:28]
asciilifeform let's recall which side has si fabs. [09:28]
mircea_popescu these are all the moving parts we'll have to count and balance. [09:28]
asciilifeform and which - not. [09:28]
mircea_popescu the usg does not have si fabs. [09:28]
mircea_popescu not anymore than you do. [09:28]
asciilifeform intel [09:28]
asciilifeform and fuck, people like northrop [09:28]
mircea_popescu intellectual property outfits. [09:29]
asciilifeform they actually fab in usa. [09:29]
mircea_popescu some, not so much not so well etc. [09:29]
asciilifeform nope, the latter - fab. [09:29]
mircea_popescu myeah, there is that. [09:29]
mircea_popescu and of course the nsa foundry etc. [09:29]
mircea_popescu altho they sold it to some contractor iirc ? whatevs. [09:29]
asciilifeform aha. [09:29]
asciilifeform 'sold' [09:29]
mircea_popescu you mean like "sold" bitcoin ? :D [09:30]
asciilifeform standard way to handle budget overruns [09:30]
mircea_popescu aha. [09:30]
asciilifeform e.g., sandia labs, was likewise 'sold' iirc. [09:30]
asciilifeform so - usg can build, if pressed, machines. ~whereas~ existing coinbases they can only reallocate, save a ecdsa break, by knocking people over the head. which is loud and somewhat costly. [09:31]
mircea_popescu neither loud nor costly to date. [09:32]
asciilifeform and has well-documented countermeasures. [09:32]
mircea_popescu to a point. [09:32]
asciilifeform ulbricht was mighty loud. [09:32]
mircea_popescu really ? [09:32]
mircea_popescu who got shot ? [09:32]
asciilifeform and if he had a pin to pull, the nazis would have nothing. [09:33]
mircea_popescu if btc people were the sort where it'd cost about 1.25 heads of usg agent per bitcoin stolen, this is one thing. [09:33]
mircea_popescu btc people so far seem much lower effort than that. [09:33]
mircea_popescu so i can't compute this like you would. it's silent and cheap, not loud, not costly. [09:33]
asciilifeform destroying the keys would be a start. [09:33]
mircea_popescu not being an anglotard - even better start. and yet... [09:33]
asciilifeform scorched earth device is usable by ~anyone. [09:34]
mircea_popescu i would propose to you that "destroying the keys" feels exactly like "moving to argentina" does to you. [09:34]
mircea_popescu so it is usable by anyone who doesn't work, live, was educated or born in the us. [09:34]
asciilifeform i suppose. [09:34]
mircea_popescu this utter fear of finality they bake into all their runts. [09:34]
mircea_popescu "omaigerd what do you mean it's finished!" [09:35]
asciilifeform and mircea_popescu knows that i'd be on the next flight if i were properly 13337 and knew how to pay the rentz there. [09:35]
mircea_popescu hahahaha. and similarly i know that they WOULDNT NEED TO pull the pin [09:35]
mircea_popescu if they were properly leet and called their secret legions to battle with da polis. [09:36]
mircea_popescu derp, srsly. [09:36]
asciilifeform l0l point [09:36]
asciilifeform then we're really speaking of eating one's nagant [09:36]
asciilifeform which plenty of folks do [09:36]
asciilifeform and yet others - study to do [09:36]
mircea_popescu yes, plenty of folk do. that don't work, live, were educated or born in the us. [09:37]
asciilifeform whatchatalkingabout usa inmates drop like flies [09:37]
mircea_popescu suddenly we understand the importance of national heroes like joe stack [09:37]
mircea_popescu it protects an entire fucking population from the above being an absolute. [09:37]
asciilifeform they suicide at drop of a hat! [09:37]
mircea_popescu yehimsure. [09:37]
asciilifeform usually cheaply/boringly [09:38]
asciilifeform but just as dead [09:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu this is a country where , i suspect, most folks' retirement plan is a .45 ! [09:39]
asciilifeform 'Colt Life&Health Co.' [09:39]
asciilifeform but mircea_popescu nailed it, 'get on the boat with the shirt on yer back' is a kind of death-lite-version [09:41]
asciilifeform been there, done that. [09:42]
asciilifeform witnessed the effect on older folk, too. [09:42]
mircea_popescu aha. [09:44]
mircea_popescu i enjoy it so much i do it spuriously. [09:44]
asciilifeform mno. [09:44]
mircea_popescu do tell ? [09:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu , what, threw out his capital ? [09:45]
asciilifeform all of it? [09:45]
asciilifeform went with shirt?! [09:45]
mircea_popescu i did build and burn a number of fortunes, but in my younger years. nevertheless : you know, peter ALSO didn't HAVE TO take the imperial guard with. [09:45]
mircea_popescu it's an option, not an obligation. [09:45]
asciilifeform no phriend-who-owes-him-a-block-of-flats either ! [09:46]
mircea_popescu for actual emperors. not for fuckrags a la obama, but for actual emperors. [09:46]
asciilifeform whatever nietzschetronic etc. etc. [09:46]
mircea_popescu dun haet. [09:47]
asciilifeform l0lz [09:47]
asciilifeform yahyah mircea_popescu has esp powerz and they aint for sale and follow him through the seven worlds etc etc [09:48]
asciilifeform but i was talking about mortals. [09:48]
mircea_popescu dun haet!!1 [09:48]
mircea_popescu mortals ain't pulling any pins, you see. so yea, "anyonecandoit". [09:49]
asciilifeform not ntirely unrelatedly, usg is doing an impromptu collapse drill under the guise of fire inspection, and closes the whole motherfuckng subway for 24h [09:49]
asciilifeform so now i go and see what 100,000 extra cars look like. [09:50]
* asciilifeform bbl [09:50]
* mircea_popescu had a friend, and a fine fellow he was, who unfortunately died young. but we were friends from childhood [09:50]
mircea_popescu my earliest memory of him is, we were in some rural setting, dun recall whose grandparents, and we had chicks (kids get young hatchlings to play with in the time and place, it's a time-honored tradition like getting your toddler one of those dingly noise things to put above the crib or w/e) [09:51]
mircea_popescu some younger kid that didn't have one wanted to play with his, this guy would have none of it, eventually some adult intervened to make him share [09:52]
mircea_popescu so he turned the chicks neck and threw the corpse at the whiner. [09:52]
mircea_popescu school hadn't yet started, so we were prolly 6 or so. but this was a rare concept even at that age. [09:52]
mircea_popescu ~EVEN~ at that age. [09:52]
thestringpuller shutting the studio down? [09:53]
thestringpuller very p. diddy-esque [09:53]
* dbclk ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [10:18]
mircea_popescu and in other news, [10:28]
assbot ... ( ) [10:28]
shinohai ;;later tell BingoBoingo ping me when you have time to look at possible qntra submission. Grazie. [10:32]
gribble The operation succeeded. [10:32]
mircea_popescu (and to cap that story - yea the adults expressed outrage ["how could you do that!"] but no, he wasn't punished, because no there was no offense, and the father(s) wouldn't have it, or generally let the women run amok with their nonsense. so hurray for patriarchy or whatever, boo the psychopaths of this world!) [10:38]
* dbclk has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [10:40]
assbot Logged on 15-03-2016 23:11:11; jurov: and *gasp* roman catholics [10:44]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 11:43:02; asciilifeform: << this nonsense does not turn into fact merely by being uttered by mircea_popescu [10:48]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 11:50:11; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and at any point prior to march 2016 i would have readily believed that. now however, is simply something i can't discern. [10:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60550 @ 0.0004201 = 25.4371 BTC [-] {4} [10:54]
* deedbot- has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [10:56]
* dbclk (~dbclk@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:04]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [11:05]
* assbot gives voice to dbclk [11:05]
davout nubbins`: just interested in seeing who's paying attention [11:06]
jurov i wish i had rather not pay attention [11:10]
assbot [10/100] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [UPDATED DESIGN FOR 2016] ... ( ) [11:11]
trinque adlai: your deed will send as soon as this thing reimports its key into the wallet for the 30th time [11:18]
adlai mircea_popescu: that is such a terrible story, the child should have been spanked for chiccicide [11:18]
trinque $ LC_ALL=C bitcoind listaccounts [11:18]
trinque { [11:18]
trinque "" : -0.00020000 [11:18]
trinque } [11:18]
adlai aha looks like trinque is pulling a ben_vulpes ? [11:18]
trinque pardon? [11:18]
adlai nvm [11:18]
mircea_popescu yeah im sure. [11:18]
adlai masheu beanglit [11:18]
mircea_popescu what's so terrible about it ? [11:18]
adlai the child should have been spanked! you don't just go around letting your kids kill things, without a little flick on the butt [11:19]
mircea_popescu and why not ? [11:19]
trinque when I had a cat it killed things all the time, for fun. [11:19]
mircea_popescu cats are particularly bloodthirsty huh. [11:19]
mircea_popescu anyway, [11:20]
assbot The chick incident on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [11:20]
adlai mircea_popescu: i wanna answer with a log link, but the search is failing so i'll quote instead: "mircea_popescu: *-cide is never justifiable" [11:21]
adlai although the * in that context was just a bunch of cells! [11:22]
adlai (for the lispless in the audience, cells are a human invention, by kenny tilton) [11:22]
adlai somebody on better terms with that man oughtta invite him in here someday. [11:22]
mircea_popescu i don't think justification was attempted. [11:23]
mircea_popescu breathing is also never justifiable. [11:23]
adlai iirc somebody asked you whether you justify abortion or somesuch [11:23]
mircea_popescu best find the link. [11:23]
adlai !s mircea abortion [11:23]
assbot 31 results for 'mircea abortion' : [11:23]
* adlai lets googlebot find it [11:23]
adlai it's 4:20, i got blunts to burn and chat to spurn. [11:24]
mircea_popescu adlai can't propose weird stances for mp to have taken in the past and then crap out on the documentation. [11:24]
adlai well it was definitely after i joined the channel, if that limits the search space. [11:24]
mircea_popescu nobody's going to do your work. you wanna talk to the adults, talk like the adults. [11:24]
adlai [11:25]
assbot Logged on 22-04-2015 01:52:22; mircea_popescu: the alternative is nothing. murder's not something to be explained. [11:25]
* adlai attains enlightenment - "chix" are not subject to "murder"! [11:25]
adlai thank you, buddha. you're next. [11:25]
mircea_popescu you see the difference between to explain and to justify yes ? [11:25]
adlai sure [11:26]
* adlai wanders off in search of the buddha [11:26]
mircea_popescu discretionary acts are that, discretionary. no explanation is available for the private sphere. [11:26]
mircea_popescu but yes, that's the major problem of murder : a private act with major public effects. pretty major conundrum. [11:27]
* adlai blows buddha-neck-dust off hands [11:29]
adlai ( for the heathens - ) [11:30]
assbot Kōan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [11:30]
adlai !t m s.mpoe [11:33]
assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00042006 / 0.00042062 / 0.00042603 (374417 shares, 157.49 BTC), 7D: 0.00042006 / 0.00048142 / 0.00053073 (12408846 shares, 5,973.87 BTC), 30D: 0.00042006 / 0.00055086 / 0.00059897 (72958913 shares, 40,190.59 BTC) [11:33]
mircea_popescu so i made the mistake of following the tardpedia link. therein, [11:35]
mircea_popescu A student asked Master Yun-Men (A.D. 949) "Not even a thought has arisen; is there still a sin or not?" Master replied, "Mount Sumeru!" [11:35]
mircea_popescu motherfucking hell these idiots already. [11:36]
* assbot removes voice from dbclk [11:36]
mircea_popescu i'm not sure there exists but i'm sure i don't know anything more offensive than the precious derpage in the eastern tradition. [11:36]
adlai they were right about killing them! put them out of their fucking misery, can't you hear it in their "bushels of flax" [11:36]
adlai btw: << yes totally you have no idea. you should try it sometime! [11:37]
assbot Logged on 27-01-2016 00:03:26; mircea_popescu: isn't lying fun. [11:37]
mircea_popescu "if you meet a derpy teenager with whispy "beard" hair, onanistic odours wafting every which way who can'tstop prattlingabout his erotic exploits... [11:37]
mircea_popescu whatever, kill him i guess." [11:37]
mircea_popescu fucking bullshit, "what's the meaning of coincidence ?" "dunno dood, HE HAD TO FUCKING COME FROM SOMEWHERE" hurr durr. [11:38]
mircea_popescu "gotta do something while waiting for buddha to decide christ's more fun and come back to save or someshit." [11:38]
mircea_popescu "meanwhile this cock ain't gonna rub itself, so here we are". [11:39]
mircea_popescu adlai you realise - google is even better at koans than at go. [11:39]
adlai oh i know, i already ready [11:40]
assbot On Kōans and Turing Machines — My Satsang — Medium ... ( ) [11:40]
* sinetek ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:41]
trinque*e-IrhTIQQ2-GaOdbDMYxGw.png << ahahahahaha check that out. model of consciousness even [11:42]
assbot ... ( ) [11:42]
mircea_popescu trinque "but what is the meaning of the colors!" "the wild fox is dead" [11:45]
mircea_popescu hurr durr we're in nirvana hall. [11:45]
* hybridsole ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:45]
mircea_popescu in the same vein, mihai margineanu playing atm, just went "whenever you ask a question you don't expect answered ; why are you surprised when you get an answer you didn't expect". [11:46]
trinque not bad [11:47]
asciilifeform << don't confuse with valhalla hall, with the valkyries. nirvana hall is just that 20 m^3 concrete cesspool from mircea_popescu's old article. [11:50]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 14:46:24; mircea_popescu: hurr durr we're in nirvana hall. [11:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform is coincidentally the pompous name of the place where the events discussed transpired. [11:51]
asciilifeform urgh [11:51]
mircea_popescu !up hybridsole [11:51]
-assbot- You voiced hybridsole for 30 minutes. [11:51]
* assbot gives voice to hybridsole [11:52]
asciilifeform interestingly, no effect visible to naked eye from the city subway here being closed - seems as if usg took the day off.. [11:53]
asciilifeform so net ~0. [11:53]
* deedbot- (~deedbot-@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:53]
* assbot gives voice to deedbot- [11:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what, the assumption that alternatives exist died in practice yet again ? [11:55]
mircea_popescu and silly me, to think that the guys in the subway are there by choice, and they could do something else. [11:55]
mircea_popescu "no subway, no travel - i don't own a 1/100000 of the 100`000 spare car meta-pool, nor do i have anything to do that'd justify it." [11:56]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: megalopolis dies without either a) subway or b) the folks who work there, living there [11:58]
asciilifeform and we don't have (b) here [11:58]
mircea_popescu so tell me, as a curio : what is the correct accounting for "city having subway" in the books of a donut shop at the corner of 85th and 10th ? [11:58]
asciilifeform calculate how much of, e.g., nyc, you would have to level and convert to garage, and how much to level to convert to 32-lane streets, to have a (c) everyone drives [11:58]
mircea_popescu because it clearly IS part of the books, right ? trivially enumerable, as it is. just not easy to evaluate. [11:58]
mircea_popescu what do! [11:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well traditionally it is whatever the tax is, no ? [11:59]
mircea_popescu or wait, you don't do number grid in dc, do you ? [11:59]
asciilifeform there is a (primitive) grid. [11:59]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ha-HA ? tax offers no guarantee. [11:59]
mircea_popescu as you recall, police is not obliged to serve you. [11:59]
asciilifeform no shit ! [11:59]
mircea_popescu so... how do you put the subway on the donut shop's books! [11:59]
mircea_popescu this is no light matter. [11:59]
asciilifeform the king actually doing his thing is a best-effort affair aha. [11:59]
asciilifeform you can't put motherfucking collapse on the books. [12:00]
asciilifeform because it costs +inf. [12:00]
mircea_popescu awww! [12:00]
mircea_popescu but but but... [12:00]
asciilifeform (not even maxint - you could pay maxint, theoretically.) [12:00]
mircea_popescu WHAT DO! [12:00]
asciilifeform the old ww1 saw. [12:00]
asciilifeform 'whaddoido if a shell lands in my trench??' [12:00]
asciilifeform answer: [12:00]
trinque no everlasting life eh? [12:01]
asciilifeform 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yerself around a bit' [12:01]
trinque lol [12:01]
mircea_popescu wwwwwwellllll then. [12:01]
asciilifeform there is no entry in the bookz for 'asteroid' either. [12:01]
mircea_popescu in case this is not obvious, transparent parallel to our bitbet adventures. [12:02]
asciilifeform no shit. [12:02]
mircea_popescu hey, i dunno what posterity is like. maybe they're retarded. [12:02]
asciilifeform this is more or less a safe assumption. [12:02]
mircea_popescu i prefer to practice safe sex rather than safe assumptions. [12:03]
asciilifeform l0l [12:05]
asciilifeform the chicken story is lulzy [12:07]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [12:07]
asciilifeform i imagine every boy broke something when 'made to share' at some point [12:07]
asciilifeform but i never had a whole fucking chicken [12:08]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu is the clear winner in the moar-orc contest. [12:08]
asciilifeform incidentally every time i open my idiot mouth and talk to colleagues, another one of my 'every boy must have...' assumptions drops like a fucking fly. [12:09]
asciilifeform sometimes it is chronological, [12:10]
asciilifeform e.g., i run into grown man who never saw msdos [12:10]
asciilifeform sometimes - not. [12:10]
* NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:d83:465a:de98:5e99) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:11]
jurov mircea_popescu: pls to mpex [12:13]
asciilifeform << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ?? [12:13]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 14:03:05; nubbins`: davout you have a [12:13]
asciilifeform why would anyone buy ? i still dun get it [12:13]
asciilifeform << i learned one way to achieve this 'wonder' - doublespends followed by normal spend [12:14]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 14:19:29; trinque: "" : -0.00020000 [12:14]
asciilifeform wallet (incl. trb) ~much~ dislikes doublespends [12:14]
asciilifeform you end up with this barf. [12:14]
trinque I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva. [12:14]
asciilifeform trinque: neato! [12:15]
trinque too much manual lever-pulling at the moment [12:15]
asciilifeform trinque: what do you need to make this go ? [12:15]
asciilifeform imho the mega-reasonable thing to do, and the thing i would be doing right now if not sitting on a stake possibly, is to abstract out the wallet idiocy [12:16]
davout trinque: that -0.00020000 comes from the "accounts" mega-turd? [12:16]
trinque davout: yes [12:16]
asciilifeform which is to say, incorporate db calls into shiva [12:16]
asciilifeform and go from that to tx-crafting [12:16]
asciilifeform while staying in shiva. [12:16]
trinque asciilifeform: right, I would at least need sendrawtxn (can make txn elsewhere) but it would also be nice to have createrawtxn and signrawtxn I suppose. [12:17]
trinque I can do the latter two outside too [12:17]
asciilifeform you need the blockchain for this. [12:17]
trinque had my own external wallet db for btcd [12:17]
asciilifeform (at least in practice) [12:17]
trinque I was simply keeping a sqlite db of txns [12:17]
trinque hypothetically I would like to simply be able to inquire the balance of any address at any time [12:18]
trinque this seems heavy given the db structure used [12:18]
asciilifeform this is O(N) trinque. [12:18]
trinque yep. [12:18]
asciilifeform intrinsically. [12:18]
davout this "accounts" thing is such an abomination... [12:19]
davout <<< the rasperree-pee-that-can-also-mine-sort-of [12:20]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 15:14:21; asciilifeform: << l0l wut, the circa-2013 usb miner thing ?? [12:20]
asciilifeform the notion of the machine undertaking to solve the knapsack problem is ludicrous in itself. [12:20]
asciilifeform and from it flow the other atrocities of the 'wallet'. [12:21]
asciilifeform is everyone familiar with knapsack ? [12:21]
* assbot removes voice from hybridsole [12:22]
trinque yep, you have finite volume and items of varying volume and value, want to pack the knapsack by optimal value [12:24]
* trinque worked on warehouse software in ancient days [12:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> but i never had a whole fucking chicken << seriously ?! [12:26]
mircea_popescu my sister killed more than these by being a kid and accidentally stepping on their heads than i can recall. [12:26]
mircea_popescu trinque> I'm aiming to build the calls necessary to run deedbot's needs over shiva. << bless your heart. [12:27]
mircea_popescu davout> this "accounts" thing is such an abomination... << consensus on this since... 2011 ? [12:28]
mircea_popescu trinque i recall me losing my top over this back in 2013ish or w/e the first time bitcoin-idiocy got in the way of bitbet, being told "oh wait, this is an actual problem - we don't resolve problems, we write code here at prb!" [12:29]
mircea_popescu "Fix the motherfucking code before you have to be fired. To recap : a. If I want to make 1 Mb txs I make 1 Mb txs ; b. correct inputs are selected to feed the outputs as if a human or better was doing the selecting." << also march, as fate would have it. [12:30]
davout pretty much [12:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how exactly is the notion ludicrous in itself ? [12:34]
* hybridsole ( has left #bitcoin-assets [12:36]
* funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: knapsack problem is this np-complete boojum for which you can, yes, have various crapsack approximations [12:39]
mircea_popescu so then. [12:39]
asciilifeform which is what we have in trb [12:39]
mircea_popescu not at all. [12:39]
mircea_popescu well... by some standard a brick is a computer, so sure. [12:40]
asciilifeform the tx selector thing [12:40]
asciilifeform for 'pay x btc to addr a' [12:40]
mircea_popescu ~random [12:40]
asciilifeform machine solves 'from which unspent ins' [12:40]
asciilifeform poorly. [12:40]
mircea_popescu even historical order would acvtually beat trb on this. [12:40]
asciilifeform the create-new-addr-every-time thing also guarantees fragging and pestilential multitudes of 'young' unspent coin [12:41]
asciilifeform as if the knapsack thing were not enough [12:41]
mircea_popescu both the "shittier than historical" and "new addr for change" bits are satoshi's dubious kludges to protect "anonimity" [12:41]
asciilifeform let's pile up moar, moar!111 variably-valued items for the solver!1111 [12:41]
mircea_popescu except for a very poorly defined, mostly felt notion of "anonimity" [12:41]
asciilifeform ^^^ [12:41]
asciilifeform was the idiot justification aha. [12:42]
asciilifeform enemy could not possibly spend extra few 100 cpu cycles!1111 [12:42]
mircea_popescu whitening. [12:42]
asciilifeform to recalculate the origin. [12:42]
asciilifeform aha. [12:42]
mircea_popescu it is a really hard thing to pass. [12:42]
mircea_popescu nanto or how do they call it. [12:42]
asciilifeform exercise in electrically-assisted self delusion [12:42]
asciilifeform like most kompyooooting claptrap. [12:42]
asciilifeform but anyway, unlike the pow wars or whatever apocalyptic thunderclouds, the wallet ~could~ be fixed if anyone gave half a fuck [12:45]
asciilifeform i kinda assumed formerly that mircea_popescu fixed it in his [12:46]
asciilifeform (not with own hands, naturally, but whatever makes mpb) [12:46]
mircea_popescu or, in the words of the ballas master, " Yet given the infinity of the internet you still surf the same 5 websites, looking for and finding exactly what you want, like a baby playing peekaboo in a mirror over and over and over and over and over and over and..." [12:46]
asciilifeform was surprised to learn that this was not so [12:46]
trinque fixed or removed and cauterized? [12:46]
asciilifeform fixed fixed. [12:46]
asciilifeform mircea_popesc-fixed [12:46]
trinque I was doing just fine without a wallet using btcd [12:46]
mircea_popescu you learned what how when ? [12:46]
trinque and shitting my own txns in from elsewhere [12:46]
trinque jumped onto trb intending to cause myself severe pain such that gears of progress and whatnot [12:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: by implication, from various mircea_popescu gripes about tx-sending. [12:48]
asciilifeform pretty much all i know about mpb comes from these ! [12:48]
mircea_popescu heh. [12:49]
mircea_popescu "on the basis of the leaks coming from the invisible aircraft we have learned that it is a duck." [12:49]
trinque does it float? [12:49]
mircea_popescu only in air. [12:50]
asciilifeform approx. [12:50]
trinque close enough [12:50]
asciilifeform when i see that birdshot works on it, i know it is prolly not a mig... [12:50]
mircea_popescu amateur hunter returns empty handed from swamp. "nothing but migs out there good god what's the world coming to!" [12:52]
asciilifeform from 'linux', lulz, [12:53]
asciilifeform # /etc/localtime is a symlink with glibc > 2.15-41 [12:53]
asciilifeform ^ how the FUCK is this any business of libc. [12:53]
mircea_popescu recall the threads about ntp, political time etc ? [12:53]
mircea_popescu like that. [12:53]
asciilifeform uhah. [12:53]
asciilifeform << it is what there is. [12:58]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 11:03:11; mircea_popescu: << not afaik. if you don't count various people (including alf most recently) on various occasions throwing their hands up in disgust at the dysfunctional pos. [12:58]
asciilifeform i don't have another, functional os buried somewhere [12:58]
mircea_popescu aha. [12:58]
asciilifeform for me right now it is gentoo or unabomber cabin. [12:58]
hanbot phf / anyone who mac-erizes or might mess with gpgtools, tell me menu option & any steps involved in exporting pubkey if you have a moment? i'm trying to put a eulora wiki guide together and these derps have like zero documentation. [12:58]
asciilifeform 'perelman-os' [12:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw the mask set i published here will build a depoetteringized (though not dedrepperized) gentoo, which will stay that way. but various more or less essential items, e.g., 'wireshark', will not build. [13:00]
mircea_popescu i am aware. [13:00]
asciilifeform there is a dedrepperized (experimental, musltronic) gentoo but it is VERY spartan [13:00]
asciilifeform e.g., no emacs. [13:01]
asciilifeform so not really os. [13:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ah so you tried it. [13:01]
asciilifeform i did not think anyone gave a fuck. [13:01]
mircea_popescu why not ? [13:01]
asciilifeform because everybody here, afaik, already has some ruin he inhabits [13:02]
asciilifeform but i have nfi. [13:02]
mircea_popescu you think like the man of a single woman. [13:02]
asciilifeform i speak like diogenes of a single barrel. [13:02]
mircea_popescu !b 2 [13:03]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [13:03]
asciilifeform though i have a few dozen mostly broken ones. [13:03]
mircea_popescu everyone's a diogenes of a single candle. [13:03]
asciilifeform and single turtle, aha. [13:04]
mircea_popescu actually that's a great name for the temple for this here cult, [13:04]
mircea_popescu Temple of the Diogenes of the Single Candle. [13:04]
mircea_popescu teh dsc sounds like a pretty kickass patron deity, thinking about it. [13:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66650 @ 0.00042006 = 27.997 BTC [-] [13:05]
asciilifeform much of modern tech is really reducible to 'let's give diogenes 1000w projector, he will surely find honest man!111' [13:06]
mircea_popescu hey, he wins at go. [13:06]
asciilifeform speaking of which, how about them 1900 cores. [13:07]
mircea_popescu what of it ? [13:07]
asciilifeform (from, iirc, 1200, after the machine loss) [13:07]
asciilifeform since when is this done. [13:08]
mircea_popescu since forever ? [13:08]
mircea_popescu or hwat ? [13:08]
asciilifeform i distincly recall stipulation that all 5 games will be played against same thing ? [13:08]
asciilifeform or did i dream this. [13:08]
mircea_popescu heh. [13:08]
mircea_popescu machine is not a thing in the sense here contemplated. [13:08]
asciilifeform being rather the collective best effort of the king's horses and king's men ? [13:09]
mircea_popescu the whole deal was something like "and lee sedol will now play the whole nation of china - elect a representative, or two, or whatever. the go competence of the entire han race is being judged" [13:09]
asciilifeform << i read it. marvelous tale. and - unsurprisingly - barfalicious hollywood film 50 yrs later. [13:10]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 11:21:59; thestringpuller: you ever read mimsy and the borogoves? short sci-fi story by Lewis Padgett (a pseudonym for CL Moore and some other person that wrote as a duo) [13:10]
mircea_popescu ahh this mango lassi. [13:11]
asciilifeform << in some circumstances ~maladaptive~ [13:12]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 11:27:35; mircea_popescu: intelligence is an adaptive behaviour ; which is why anyone with a clue would rather spend the time chatting up a random whore or street urchin than some jewish princess or "young exec". [13:12]
mircea_popescu notrly. [13:12]
mircea_popescu the adaptive behaviour is teh intelligence - the rest, will, if you will, or whatever. [13:12]
asciilifeform what if test is 'be not as large as a mouse, there is nothing to eat but for cockroach' [13:13]
mircea_popescu dumb mouse. [13:13]
asciilifeform sometimes it is maladaptive to be larger than roach [13:13]
asciilifeform where then, the intelligence. [13:13]
mircea_popescu and if it is, it's also unintelligent. [13:13]
asciilifeform in the end, the stone - who outlasts all - is most intelligent then. [13:14]
asciilifeform brick lisp ! [13:14]
mircea_popescu notreally, as it doesn't adapt. [13:14]
asciilifeform this is not imho a very interesting concept of intelligence. [13:14]
mircea_popescu but it is more reliably notstupid than people, for sure. [13:14]
mircea_popescu why haet. [13:14]
asciilifeform l0l this was even in my brick article [13:15]
asciilifeform english folks say 'stopped clock is right 2x a day' [13:15]
asciilifeform beats a great many people aha. [13:15]
mircea_popescu now why'd you strawman the "adaptive behaviour" ? what the fuck do you care what the outcome is. [13:15]
asciilifeform i merely happen to live there. [13:16]
asciilifeform so not entirely indifferent to whether surrounded by cockroach [13:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu lives on mt olympus with the other godz and naturally gives not a fuck [13:16]
mircea_popescu that you don't like the outcome is not cause to alter the definitions lol. [13:16]
asciilifeform evolutionary process is mega-adaptable but is not in any useful sense intelligent [13:20]
mircea_popescu behaviour! [13:20]
asciilifeform because cannot plan or 'think outside local maxima'. [13:20]
mircea_popescu process is not behaviour. [13:20]
asciilifeform 'be born a cockroach' is not behaviour of anything but evolutionary process [13:21]
* NewLiberty has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [13:21]
mircea_popescu so ? [13:21]
mircea_popescu i am sorry strawman doth not make much sense and commiserate ! [13:21]
asciilifeform i commiserate that mircea_popescu thinks the 'idiot god' of hill-climbing optimizer is 'intelligence' [13:24]
mircea_popescu not what i said. [13:24]
mircea_popescu the root of the problem would seem to be the self-serving but otherwise bluntly unwarranted assumption that "intelligence is useful in all circumstances". [13:24]
mircea_popescu this is not so. [13:24]
asciilifeform pretty much what i said, no ? [13:25]
mircea_popescu no. you said maladaptive. [13:25]
mircea_popescu that presumes you act on it. [13:25]
asciilifeform take the famous sea cucumber. [13:25]
mircea_popescu aite. [13:25]
asciilifeform 'The juvenile sea squirt wanders through the sea searching for a suitable rock or hunk of coral to cling to and make its home for life. For this task, it has a rudimentary nervous system. When it finds its spot and takes root, it doesn't need its brain anymore, so it eats it! It's rather like getting tenure.' [13:26]
* funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has left #bitcoin-assets [13:26]
mircea_popescu must not be the same animal, sea cucumber i think of is an echinoderm. [13:27]
mircea_popescu it moves. [13:27]
mircea_popescu (actually it's the jumping champion, some 1km jumps) [13:28]
asciilifeform ah right [13:29]
mircea_popescu but anyway, so animal that stops locomoting gives up brain cells used for handling that. [13:30]
mircea_popescu recall pigeon experiments ? brain is plastic, takes over function of lost partys [13:30]
mircea_popescu at the expense of other processes, of course. so what of it ? [13:30]
asciilifeform aha. [13:30]
* Xuthus (~NULMiJ@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:31]
asciilifeform this is adaptive. [13:31]
asciilifeform and the beast can't exactly grow a new brain if environment changes and it could take the chance of moving to a new rock. [13:31]
mircea_popescu so because enthalpy, you propose no commerce is possible. [13:32]
asciilifeform not in closed system ! [13:33]
mircea_popescu non-closedness of a system is an accounting fiction. [13:33]
asciilifeform and this is where we find out that mircea_popescu stands outside heat death. [13:34]
mircea_popescu why ? [13:35]
asciilifeform largely since i never get the sense he is discussing a place where he ~lives~ [13:37]
asciilifeform vs some distant zoo [13:37]
mircea_popescu also duck ? [13:37]
asciilifeform prolly goes with the job. [13:37]
* massiro has quit (Quit: Page closed) [13:38]
asciilifeform i can see it already: harem gurl: 'i stepped on rusty nail!' mircea_popescu: 'here's an impregnation, perhaps after 20 generations your descendants will have shell armour on their feet' [13:39]
asciilifeform 'meanwhile have a rusty knife' [13:40]
mircea_popescu did i ever recall the story of the slavegirl that had never seen railroad tracks ? [13:40]
asciilifeform nope [13:40]
trinque "here's an impregnation" << lolol [13:40]
mircea_popescu so we go to cross some tracks and i say "careful not to touch the shiny parts!" and she carefully steps to not touch the shiny parts. [13:40]
asciilifeform who the fuck has not seen railroad ? blind gurl ? [13:40]
asciilifeform wat?! [13:41]
mircea_popescu later finding herself at a good time for such, inquires why parts were shiny ? [13:41]
mircea_popescu "because trains go on them, polish them" [13:41]
mircea_popescu "so then why not step on them ?!" [13:41]
mircea_popescu "no reason." [13:41]
mircea_popescu "i thought it was something with electrictiy!!1" [13:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not all people come from europe you know. [13:41]
mircea_popescu who else has rail ? new england ? [13:42]
trinque portland wants to be yurp bad enough to have put some in [13:42]
mircea_popescu aokthen! [13:42]
asciilifeform there are rails here! [13:42]
trinque couple of hipster chicks get flattened by it per year [13:42]
mircea_popescu trinque funny, was same in india! [13:42]
asciilifeform every day 1000 tonnes of coal went past my old flat [13:42]
asciilifeform and there were a few splats also. [13:43]
mircea_popescu anyway, i wonder why asciilifeform is so convinced that one may only see the truth of things that don't affect them personally. [13:43]
asciilifeform prolly because 20 pack a day mathematics habit [13:43]
mircea_popescu what is this. mayhap the explanation isn't that mp lives in a heat-death immune dirigible (upgraded from atomic) but simply... does not care ? [13:43]
asciilifeform i am reminded of dan mocsny's 'whichever one of us leaves usenet first is the Real Man' mega-flame [13:44]
asciilifeform (moscny - won.) [13:45]
mircea_popescu how ? [13:45]
asciilifeform he left. [13:45]
mircea_popescu no, how are you reminded [13:45]
asciilifeform ah the not-caring olympics l0l [13:45]
mircea_popescu but look at the jump : 1) unexplained item can be explained by a or b ; 2) it's a b-olympics! [13:46]
mircea_popescu what goes from 1 to 2 ? [13:46]
asciilifeform side thread [13:46]
mircea_popescu the jump is the mechanism at issue here nevertheless. [13:46]
asciilifeform well, to re-connect the frags, i take issue with everett's device as problem solving tool, because if you admit it, none of the other things we do make any sense [13:47]
mircea_popescu these are as far as i've seen the two mindbugs of the republic : a) A -> B therefore B-> A, ie backflow ; and b) the above. [13:47]
asciilifeform why not just fellate our pistols every morning while enemy is still alive ? [13:48]
mircea_popescu there is no capacity of sense in phenomenology. [13:48]
mircea_popescu nothing "makes sense" in the sense you want it to. [13:48]
mircea_popescu ethics (ie, the mechanism to answer "what should i do") is a very severely limited science. [13:48]
asciilifeform so why is mircea_popescu eating cake and not rusty nails ? [13:48]
mircea_popescu will. not intelligence. [13:49]
asciilifeform and contemplating trbtronics, rather than praying to vishnu ? [13:49]
mircea_popescu because i can. [13:49]
asciilifeform but can also these other things. [13:49]
mircea_popescu why did the man get out of bed ? he could stay in bed, regress to childhood and whatever, paint posters to show mommy. [13:49]
mircea_popescu yes, i can also these other things. [13:50]
* asciilifeform swaps gas mask cartridge [13:50]
trinque why did the shark swim when it could stop? [13:51]
mircea_popescu (ever wondered, btw, why some men favour ugly, unattractive women ? the freudian explanation is exactly above - they seek to reunite with mother, in which case sexual appeal is a hindrance not an asset.) [13:51]
mircea_popescu trinque shark swims to breathe tho. [13:51]
trinque right, I know [13:51]
asciilifeform << lulzy wankage in commentz [13:52]
assbot BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 16 hours ago ... ( ) [13:52]
trinque "why does it feel good to will things into being?" [13:52]
asciilifeform was this dear old nubs? [13:52]
mircea_popescu who ? [13:52]
asciilifeform bbet anons raging [13:52]
trinque ask the dumb hill-climbing optimizer? [13:52]
mircea_popescu i dunno. [13:52]
mircea_popescu trinque possibly the least offensive koan of the lot is the one with "why did i rescue the scorpion ? it is my nature!" [13:53]
mircea_popescu rarely was i so happy to hear of a monk's demise. [13:53]
asciilifeform there are many fables where a scorpion kills a man, but is this actually possible ? [13:54]
mircea_popescu i think some but not most are venomous enough. [13:54]
asciilifeform (short of allergic shock) [13:54]
mircea_popescu of course - a bee can kill a man, if it's the right bee and the right man. [13:54]
mircea_popescu aha. [13:54]
trinque << heh not bad [13:54]
assbot 404 Not Found ... ( ) [13:54]
trinque penultimate [13:54]
mircea_popescu bad restating. they took out the dying part - very indicative of the cocksucker sort they are. [13:56]
asciilifeform who's they [13:58]
asciilifeform translator? [13:58]
mircea_popescu they is teh community. [13:59]
mircea_popescu mno. the numerous lee sedols of that pointless boardgame. [13:59]
asciilifeform speaking of [14:01]
asciilifeform i'm kinda surprised the whiners aren't here yet [14:02]
asciilifeform (re bbet) [14:02]
mircea_popescu bar too high ? [14:02]
* jabular has quit (Changing host) [14:03]
* jabular (~jabular@unaffiliated/jabular) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:03]
asciilifeform nubbins`: i will ! ty [14:07]
asciilifeform nubbins`: soon as i get home. [14:07]
asciilifeform l0l [14:08]
asciilifeform i actually considered buying some b00kz from nubbins` [14:08]
asciilifeform but now i am too p00r. [14:08]
* dbclk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [14:09]
asciilifeform ftr i enjoyed the photos from 'whale & other disorders.' [14:09]
asciilifeform nubbins`: actually ok to tx back to originating addr [14:13]
trinque mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? [14:47]
* trinque gets a vpatch [14:49]
asciilifeform << orl0l [15:07]
assbot ClubOrlov: The wrong kind of victory ... ( ) [15:07]
asciilifeform where he discovers turkeydollarz... [15:08]
* twixisowned ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:13]
* joesmoe_ (~joesmoe@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:16]
* trixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [15:17]
* joesmoe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [15:17]
trinque << miserablol [15:27]
assbot dpaste: 0YKDMWF ... ( ) [15:27]
* trinque will put his awk shitwaders on later [15:28]
trinque anyhow, looks like polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch needs rebasing [15:33]
trinque << these press [15:36]
assbot ... ( ) [15:36]
trinque << bad press with polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch [15:40]
assbot ... ( ) [15:40]
* funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:44]
* binaryatrocity (~quassel@unaffiliated/br4n) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:44]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [15:45]
trinque wb funkenstein_ [15:48]
funkenstein_ greetings trinque :) [15:48]
funkenstein_ i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment [15:49]
funkenstein_ copper lark was first i saw to use it [15:49]
* CrazyTruthYakDDS (uid67551@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:51]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: keccak-with-hash-over-arbitrary-blocks-pulled-from-chain [16:00]
asciilifeform ('proof of storage') [16:00]
asciilifeform as per mircea_popescu's article [16:00]
funkenstein_ which part of that article is worth discussing? [16:02]
funkenstein_ its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought [16:03]
phf trinque: yeah, polarbeard_better_log_messages depends on a conflicting patchset [16:04]
phf trinque: specifically, [16:05]
assbot patches for hash 02CCC72E42939509FC180861DB7FFEC50563A84869F35671FCF720090F9782674EDCC89C4174175691566FAC7277F1EBE0F50253D1E4A995EB960F5B43CCE2A3 ... ( ) [16:05]
phf depends on deprecated asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum's version of main.cpp [16:06]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: which problems ? [16:07]
phf and this one too, asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring which is also deprecated [16:07]
funkenstein_ see jurov's comment [16:07]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: i mean, ~other~ than it being a hardphork [16:07]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: link plox ? [16:07]
* liead has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [16:08]
phf trinque: i say, press to polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file, then patch -p1 < polarbeard_better_log_messages, then vpatch the result, then do same for polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc. that's sort of easiest, fastest way to regrind [16:08]
funkenstein_ [16:09]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [16:09]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell shinohai pls to submit it [16:10]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:10]
shinohai Here it is BingoBoingo but ill have to resubmit, stoopid Obama went and named someone else to scotus. [16:11]
assbot ... ( ) [16:11]
BingoBoingo pls do that then [16:11]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu << i had nfi this existed. a whole own poetteringism, hilarious, touches ~all binaries on affected pseudolinuxen, ruins aslr and number of other things, random (!) crashes, ardent defenders (ahaha), etc. [16:28]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:28]
assbot #1183 (Don't enable prelink by default in Fedora) [16:28]
mircea_popescu uh. [16:31]
* Xuthus has quit (Quit: Xuthus) [16:34]
asciilifeform the comments are mindblowing. [16:36]
* diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:36]
asciilifeform << drepperism! [16:40]
assbot Is pre-linking worth it? [] ... ( ) [16:40]
asciilifeform ^ worth reading for the commentz [16:42]
mircea_popescu what is pre-linking ? [16:43]
* mircea_popescu discovers that he can't rightly say what fedora even is. is it what, a distro ? some sort of centos ? [16:43]
mircea_popescu what ? [16:43]
jurov fedora is opensource kitchen for redhat [16:44]
mircea_popescu ah right. [16:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there is no legit thing called prelinking [16:45]
asciilifeform it is a poetteringization of the ordinary glibc execution process [16:45]
jurov and prelinking is writing directly to the binaries/ dynamic libs what virtual memory address are they going and which addresses can all the other depending libraries found at [16:45]
asciilifeform where the items, having been linked dynamically, are pseudo-staticized periodically (!) by a cron job [16:45]
asciilifeform badly. [16:45]
mircea_popescu my meagre understanding of computing doesn't allow me to discern the intended meaning. [16:45]
mircea_popescu "pre fuck" i can imagine what'd be. pre linking... no. [16:45]
mircea_popescu uh [16:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is a highly bizarre idiot hack nominally to 'save cycles' but really 'because ftmeade asked' [16:46]
mircea_popescu but what does it do ? [16:46]
asciilifeform and this being unusually transparent, in a cartoon way [16:46]
jurov basically it's like "printf has address 0x000002254fe5450" [16:46]
jurov and every binary that calls it gets written this addy in it [16:47]
asciilifeform sometimes hoses entire box, see epic [16:47]
mircea_popescu what [16:47]
assbot Why people don't test development distributions [] ... ( ) [16:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is sorta like a cache for dynamic linking [16:47]
asciilifeform or claims to be. [16:47]
mircea_popescu i see. [16:47]
asciilifeform today it exists at all only in the most direly diseased pseudolinuxen [16:48]
mircea_popescu so what it this supposed to achieve for the putative enemy, make proper allocation impossible or what ? [16:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it gives excuse to munge every single executable on the box [16:48]
asciilifeform also demolishes aslr [16:48]
asciilifeform and creates a number of other interesting difficulties [16:49]
mircea_popescu ah right because stuff like hashes no longer mean anything [16:49]
mircea_popescu so what is this, excel-polymorphism ? [16:49]
jurov it's supposed to avoid determining where the actual printf is located every time you run some program, which can be solved byt other and better means [16:49]
asciilifeform discussing an item like this is almost like anatomizing a teratoma [16:49]
asciilifeform as if it were an actual animal [16:49]
asciilifeform it is quite far from whatever actual purpose it was conceived for. [16:50]
mircea_popescu hey, anatomizing teratoma is exactly how noobs learn cytopathology etc. [16:50]
asciilifeform aha! [16:51]
asciilifeform hence why i put it on the dissection table here. [16:51]
mircea_popescu why the cron job [16:51]
mircea_popescu shouldn't this run at the beginning every time ? [16:52]
asciilifeform it does. [16:52]
asciilifeform and then again, and again... [16:52]
asciilifeform WHAT IF YOU HAVE NEW BINARY!111111 [16:52]
mircea_popescu then let me run it first ? [16:52]
asciilifeform that must be victi^H^H^Hoptimized [16:52]
mircea_popescu Hoptimized lol [16:52]
asciilifeform hopetimized. [16:52]
asciilifeform changimized. [16:53]
* JPT has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) [16:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform inasmuch as he steal speaks of "its money", orlov doesn't actually get the turkey dollars thing. he earnestly thinks that there is ONE kind of usdollar, and PART of that one is "wasted". whereas the situation in the field is that there's two kinds, ands the bezzle part can only be bezzled with. [16:53]
mircea_popescu but anyway. [16:53]
asciilifeform anyway prelink was supposed to solve problem of 'why linux box takes multiple minutes to boot' [16:54]
asciilifeform via plugging wrong end of funnel, naturally [16:54]
mircea_popescu who the fuck boots them [16:54]
asciilifeform no one (tm) would ever, say, remove the idiot sea of crud [16:54]
mircea_popescu i still don't get this. all this derpage from the early days of systemd "it makes servers boot faster" [16:54]
mircea_popescu dude... [16:54]
asciilifeform that takes up the boot time [16:54]
* JPT ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:54]
asciilifeform not servers. [16:54]
mircea_popescu this was an actual argument illo tempore. [16:54]
mircea_popescu but anyway, who reboots linux. [16:54]
asciilifeform laptop folk [16:55]
asciilifeform they have no working sleep mode, recall. [16:55]
mircea_popescu if a box goes down trying to figure wtf takes 10x to 100x longer than it takes t oboot [16:55]
asciilifeform typically. [16:55]
mircea_popescu fuck laptop folk. [16:55]
asciilifeform they're pre-fucked, the notion was to slightly unfuck'em [16:55]
mircea_popescu no. stop interfering with god's will. [16:55]
mircea_popescu they deserve to suffer for their portasins. [16:55]
asciilifeform (it was 100% fraudulent, as you might expect) [16:55]
mircea_popescu "• It spends it on a bunch of aircraft carrier groups. These are very useful for launching attacks on defenseless countries. But it is very important to keep these aircraft carriers outside of conflict zones that may involve China or Russia, or even Iran, because each of these countries has several cost-effective ways to destroy an aircraft carrier: ballistic missiles, supersonic cruise missiles and supersonic torped [16:57]
mircea_popescu oes. The entire aircraft carrier fleet is obsolete, and is another huge waste of money." <<< aaaaactually... romania has the capacity to sink us carriers. so does israel. so does brazil [16:57]
mircea_popescu so does half the fucking world already. it's not 1990 anymoar. [16:57]
mircea_popescu lol re aegis-khibiny thing tho. funny how that's not at all discussed in english huh. [16:59]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: pretty sure everybody knows about the surface torpedo etc [17:01]
mircea_popescu prolly the russians just elbowed the something or other. [17:01]
asciilifeform it officially Unexists for the purpose of the comical 'war games' the pentagon conducts. [17:01]
mircea_popescu and of fucking course the army of dead empire is the nest of corruption. wtf. jannissary corps v2.0 [17:03]
mircea_popescu i forgot what the chinese thing was called, but anyway. [17:03]
asciilifeform one look at the boats and it is pretty obvious that their purpose is ~not~ to fight in battles [17:03]
asciilifeform but to move inventory [17:03]
asciilifeform logic being, if it burns down and takes 30 f-whateverthefuck planes to the bottom of the sea, so much the better! buy moar! [17:04]
asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ? [17:05]
gribble The operation succeeded. [17:05]
* funkenstein_ has quit (Quit: Leaving) [17:06]
mircea_popescu << how much is it ? [17:08]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 18:50:31; funkenstein_: i saw something about keccak, afaik maxcoin has the highest hash rate of all keccak coins at the moment [17:08]
mircea_popescu << you thought wrong. a bunch of nobodies declared idiocies about things in their head, generally on reddit/medium/wherever they gather. [17:09]
assbot Logged on 16-03-2016 19:04:24; funkenstein_: its a nice idea but already been through the problems i thought [17:09]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell BingoBoingo where is the qntra on the police station mega-postal ? << WHAT?!? [17:14]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: [17:14]
assbot Brothers filmed attack on police station that left officer dead, authorities say - The Washington Post ... ( ) [17:14]
asciilifeform etc [17:14]
asciilifeform schmuck walks into police station, spins round and round For Piglet [17:15]
asciilifeform cops then open up, killing at least one among selves [17:15]
asciilifeform shooter's brothers film whole thing. [17:15]
BingoBoingo Interesting mortadella there, will qntra unless you direly want to do it [17:17]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: as usual, take it [17:17]
asciilifeform i have nothing. [17:17]
BingoBoingo Ok, I just suggest it because I know few things as refreshing for the mind as digging into an especially lulzy incident for qntra. [17:18]
asciilifeform i would do 10,001 things if had time but i do not,sadly. [17:18]
asciilifeform (things incl this) [17:18]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: << deturdified that article for you [17:33]
asciilifeform neato [17:35]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so wait, an hero killed no-one, police did all the murderin' ? [17:38]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: I also found this on LTM within neural nets: << It looks as if LTM is possible but pretty complex (gates within the NN itself) [17:39]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Any idea where the video is? I can't seem to find it on "World Star Hiphop" [17:39]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: nfi [17:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: correct [17:40]
deedbot- [Qntra] Aspiring 'An Hero' Survives Police Station Assault - [17:44]
mircea_popescu lol [17:44]
BingoBoingo Just to be pedantic 'An Hero' is the technical term for anyone acting with intent to off themselves [17:45]
BingoBoingo In this sense Ford was a failure [17:45]
mircea_popescu aha. [17:46]
BingoBoingo Meanwhile Lavoy Finicum was a hero because he was fighting the powah [17:46]
BingoBoingo ;;google an hero [17:46]
gribble An Hero | Know Your Meme: ; Urban Dictionary: an hero: ; An hero - Encyclopedia Dramatica: [17:46]
BingoBoingo By running the initial blockade Finicum was clearly excercising his duty to evade in an effort to continue the fight later [17:50]
BingoBoingo Also the FBI did squeeze of a couple shots before his hands went anywhere near his waistband [17:51]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [17:56]
gribble Current Blocks: 402984 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 215 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 6 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [17:56]
BingoBoingo ;;nethash [17:57]
gribble 1218294335.6 [17:57]
mircea_popescu jurov done. [17:58]
jurov ty! [17:58]
deedbot- [Qntra] America Rejected By All But Its Worst - [18:01]
* funkenstein_ (~bowler@unaffiliated/funkenstein) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:03]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [18:04]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: where do i get the correct lsd to digest that article. [18:05]
funkenstein_ BingoBoingo, you saw the footage from inside the Lavoy Finicum mobile? [18:06]
* liead (~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:14]
BingoBoingo funkenstein_: decline to comment [18:15]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Which? [18:16]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: If you are talking Kasich the correct lsd is the one that extracts lulz from setting the man up to fail. [18:17]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: life - or what passes for life - in usaschwitz - happens on the coasts. [18:19]
BingoBoingo I don't know anything of these coasts. [18:19]
BingoBoingo The Bahamas gang's reign is ending and the electoral progress is a mess in an effort to rig the contest in Clitler's favor. Qntra however has to prepare for lulztingencies. Among these is a contested convention. [18:20]
BingoBoingo Seriously though I know nothing of Coastal life in USia [18:21]
* joesmoe_ has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [18:22]
BingoBoingo I know places where actual food happens seasonally and mass food is recycled in the fields though the Corn Cycle. I rightly can't believe the Coast or Death phenomenon as anything other than a form of Stockholm syndrome. [18:24]
shinohai join #verge [18:24]
shinohai shit [18:24]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [18:38]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 415.37, vol: 4238.65955648 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.825, vol: 5827.13841 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.17, vol: 6827.4166771 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.962284, vol: 23502.07510000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 417.335, vol: 1466.60524061 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 424.402224, vol: 61.35244944 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.104775095 [18:38]
BingoBoingo ;;more [18:38]
gribble Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more. To do so, call this command with that person's nick. [18:38]
asciilifeform << historic lulz (unrelated.) [18:50]
assbot ... ( ) [18:50]
asciilifeform (warning: massive scan) [18:50]
* kakobrekla has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [19:13]
* kakobrekla (~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:14]
* samO__ (~samO@unaffiliated/samo) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:15]
* samO_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [19:15]
* hanbot has quit (Excess Flood) [19:16]
* joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:18]
* adlai has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [19:20]
* jabular has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [19:24]
* trinque is now known as trinque_ [19:26]
* trinque_ is now known as trinque [19:26]
BingoBoingo [19:54]
assbot Storks give up on winter migration in favor of junk food ... ( ) [19:54]
* trinque has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) [19:54]
* joesmoe (~joesmoe@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:58]
* trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:58]
* joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [20:00]
mats [20:02]
assbot Failed Attack Of Russian Terrorists On Ukrainian Armed Forces. (English subtitles) - YouTube ... ( ) [20:02]
BingoBoingo In other news Orange Clinton is threatening riots if the RNC convention denies him the nomination [20:02]
* trinque has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [20:04]
mircea_popescu that's a new one. [20:10]
mircea_popescu who the fuck is supposed to have made that youtube video ? [20:11]
mircea_popescu "directly to that bush" ? srsly ? [20:12]
mircea_popescu nobody can be this inept. "armed forces" ? ffs. [20:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00042004 = 8.9679 BTC [-] {2} [20:21]
mats amateur hour [20:33]
mod6 o/ [20:40]
* trinque (~undata@unaffiliated/undata) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:40]
mod6 <+trinque> mod6: what's the proper way to get you changes for would be nice when press blows up to be told what vpatch barfed. want to just add that yourself? << hey, uumm... so yeah, i think it does tell you which one barfed on press. did you use (v | verbose) in there? or have a dpaste of what it did? [20:41]
mod6 also: /bin/sh: 1: Syntax error: Unterminated quoted string << i think you can resolve this locally by installing gawk [20:43]
mod6 anyway, I see you patch, thanks for posting. when I get around to making another version of V, i'll throw that in there. [20:44]
mod6 s/you/your/ [20:44]
* assbot gives voice to trinque [20:45]
trinque k, ty [20:45]
mod6 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ben_vulpes trinque phf, et. al., I've been mulling it over while i've been following the logs for some days now about what seems like a good fork to have in our possession: at this point, im inclined to think implementation of Mr. P.'s outlined ideas are the best choice, currently. [20:46]
mod6 However, my main objective is still to finish up the v054 release before diving into any of that quite yet. It's my fault, I havent done jack-shit all month basically. I've been meaning to work with trinque and get these makefiles battle-ready, but have had a number of meatspace things get in the way. [20:48]
* joesmoe_ (~joesmoe@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:52]
* joesmoe has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [20:52]
mircea_popescu eh no matter of fault mod6 [20:53]
mircea_popescu the thing is, the more features the putative fork has, the better, i suppose. [20:53]
mircea_popescu except by features i don't mean "features". obviously. [20:53]
mod6 hehe, ofc. [20:54]
mircea_popescu healing the relay-miner divide, if in fact the thing on trilema does it, would be a great one. [20:54]
mircea_popescu but possibly there's other easy fruit to pick [20:54]
mircea_popescu too bad i constantly strangle the easy fruit pickers. if only they fucking picked in THAT direction ffs. [20:54]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( )) [20:54]
jurov mod6: Mr P.'s outlined ideas would benefit from deeper adversarial analysis, maybe it comes out it's possible only 1000 times slower using rainbow tables or other techniques I proposed in the comments [20:54]
mircea_popescu jurov quite so. [20:55]
mircea_popescu dja understand the amended form we came to well ? [20:55]
mod6 jurov: ah, very much so. [20:55]
mircea_popescu maybe it'd benefit from a going over once more. [20:55]
jurov yes pls [20:56]
mod6 i like what i've read, more analysis and discussion of implementation decisions are required for sure. i think we'll get there as this thread continues over the next 45 days. [20:56]
mircea_popescu ok. so currently, for every block being mined : a header is calculated ; to this a nonce is added, the combine hashed. the resultant hash has to be smaller than a number to qualify as a found block. [20:56]
mircea_popescu word ? [20:56]
jurov yes [20:57]
mod6 ya. [20:57]
mircea_popescu in the proposed model : a header is calculated, same way. to this, anonce is added, the combine hashed. this is hash 1. a digest is calculated, on the basis of past blocks. to this, the SAME nonce is added. the combine hashed. this is hash 2 [20:57]
mircea_popescu BOTH hash 1 and hash 2 have to be under a number to qualify as a found block. [20:57]
mod6 ok and this goes back to the discussion this am right? re: sha(header+nonce) AND sha(digest+nonce) ? or did i read that wrong? [20:58]
jurov how is the digest from past blocks done? [20:59]
* joesmoe_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [20:59]
mircea_popescu it does. i specifically left the "hashing" undefined. it can be defined so both use sha3. or first stays as is and 2nd sha3. etc. [20:59]
mircea_popescu this is a twistable knob. [20:59]
mircea_popescu jurov the digest from past blocks is done like so : [20:59]
mircea_popescu out of every Nth preceding block, the nonce-th byte is put in a string ; the combine hashed. [21:00]
mircea_popescu N is another twistable knob. can be 1, can be whatever. [21:00]
mircea_popescu see footnote 2, example : [21:01]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [21:01]
mod6 ah right. [21:01]
mircea_popescu and yet another twistable knob exists : the nonce may be shifted before taking the nonceth element. [21:02]
mod6 it's too bad we're so time constrained on this, it'd be nice to see a poc of both : with shifting and without. [21:02]
mircea_popescu knob 1 above decides whether to obsolete current miners entirely or just partially, and is a [true] soft vs hard fork ; knob 2 decides how much i/o pressure to put on relay nodes ; knob 3 decides how much relay work to require in the mix. [21:03]
mod6 well, i guess one could just add in the shifting and then make it a toggleable things. [21:03]
mod6 -s [21:03]
mircea_popescu mod6 it's not entirely impossible to make the shifting a function of difficulty differential (note that there isn't a rule BOTH hashes have to be under THE SAME number. if there's two numbers, you could have an equalizer algo that does the shift moving) [21:03]
mircea_popescu but, obviously - the more moving parts, the more problems. [21:04]
jurov well then my comment still applies - miner can keep the nonce constant and churn hash1 by changing one transaction in a cycle [21:04]
mircea_popescu jurov how ? his hash2 won't change. [21:04]
* toddf has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) [21:05]
jurov ah that [21:06]
mircea_popescu my modeling shows it'd be way the fuck cheaper to calculate nonce blocks than to try and churn merkel trees [21:06]
mircea_popescu now, your observation is correct in that this possibility puts a hard limit on how much miners can be raped. [21:06]
* toddf (~todd@2605:6400:20:8a57::) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:06]
mircea_popescu but i don't think SUCH hard rape is contemplated at all. [21:06]
mircea_popescu just... a little breather for nodes. [21:06]
mircea_popescu the thing is, currently nodes only need disk ; cpu is wasted. ideally a node should use both, so that it makes sense to keep boxes as relay nodes. [21:07]
mod6 all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs. [21:08]
mod6 we need like a tmsr stenographer. [21:09]
mircea_popescu lol. i dunno, there is the search here. [21:09]
jurov there's wiki [21:09]
mod6 yeah, but i can't ever find shit. and these details are too important to be lost. [21:09]
mircea_popescu yeah. [21:09]
mod6 unless we use a flag, like BUTTSECKS. [21:09]
mod6 then we search for that flag, and we see exactly where we should for whatever important topic. [21:10]
mircea_popescu wrap every important detail in a buttsekcs condom ? [21:10]
mod6 hah, yes. [21:10]
mod6 dare i say, that I would lay out 10 BTC, 2 BTC per year for someone to handle this task. [21:11]
mod6 hell, i'd do it myself, but there's no way i can keep up with that too. [21:11]
mircea_popescu first foundation expenditure ? [21:12]
mod6 naw, this is a mod6 request. [21:12]
mircea_popescu so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it. [21:12]
mircea_popescu better that way. [21:12]
mod6 the foundation makes money by not spending any. [21:12]
mircea_popescu and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs, [21:12]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> so do it on the foudnation and donate the needed funds to it. << i guess i could just do that. [21:13]
mircea_popescu be like rockefeller you know ? [21:14]
mod6 ben_vulpes: any thoughts on this? If I dump 10 BTC to the foundation, will you approve 2BTC/yr for a stenographer? [21:14]
mircea_popescu course the other end is harder. who can even do a good job of this. [21:14]
mod6 bingo. [21:14]
mod6 hanbot [21:14]
mircea_popescu hm [21:15]
mod6 jurov (who's got too much other shit to do) [21:15]
mircea_popescu yeah maybe she could huh [21:15]
mod6 asciilifeform (who is one arm shy of this job) [21:15]
mod6 shinohai perhaps [21:15]
mod6 I'd even say TomServo or thestringpuller would be good candidates as well. Any wot regs. [21:16]
* shinohai applies [21:17]
davout <<< blawg? [21:17]
mircea_popescu yeah but it's a certain sort of job for a certain sorta person. [21:17]
assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 00:09:59; mod6: all of this good information needs to go somewhere other than the logs. [21:17]
mircea_popescu shinohai you got the patience to stick with it ? [21:17]
mircea_popescu davout by all means, you got one neh ? :D [21:17]
shinohai what would stenographer need to do? [21:17]
davout i saw this one coming :D [21:18]
mircea_popescu write down a summary of all the important shit. [21:18]
mod6 The key to this job is to save the really succint details of technical discussions surrouding future development. Needs just the right amount of information, too much will be cumbersome. [21:18]
mircea_popescu sorta like a careful bash of technical discussions rather than lulz. [21:18]
mod6 right. [21:18]
mod6 that exactly. [21:18]
davout !b 3 [21:18]
shinohai so make a state of therealbitcoin address for dummies? [21:18]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [21:18]
mircea_popescu lol [21:18]
mod6 heheheh [21:18]
* Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds) [21:19]
mircea_popescu shinohai no more like keep the notes organised so mod6 doesn't go blind looking for where the fuck i said about knobs and where was it. [21:19]
mod6 shinohai: eh, I'd say more like a really well kept-up wiki, but yea, that's kinda the idea. [21:19]
mircea_popescu actially a wiki format prolly IS best for this, [21:19]
mircea_popescu because lets people to fix your shit if needed. [21:19]
mircea_popescu mod6 word. [21:19]
mircea_popescu right before i get to say them! [21:20]
mod6 *nod* yeah, needs to be editable in a way incase of mis-quote or something. [21:20]
jurov like... [21:20]
assbot tmsr [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [21:20]
asciilifeform << l0l i know where [21:20]
assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 00:14:09; mircea_popescu: and holy shit b-a is hiring like crazy, where are all the people looking for jerbs, [21:20]
asciilifeform they are in my yard [21:20]
asciilifeform eating from plastic bowl [21:20]
mircea_popescu cats !? [21:20]
mircea_popescu yo cwazy. [21:20]
* binaryatrocity has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [21:20]
asciilifeform except they aren't people but catz [21:20]
mod6 jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there. [21:20]
asciilifeform cause who else lives on 2btc! [21:20]
* jidan ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:21]
mircea_popescu and for the record alf you stole my v idea too! [21:21]
asciilifeform which [21:21]
mircea_popescu i dunno, they were all good. [21:21]
mod6 well, no one said you were gonna live off of 2 BTC a year, unless you live on the dock and eat fish-heads for dinner every night. [21:21]
* PaulCapestany has quit (Max SendQ exceeded) [21:21]
* Cory (~C@unaffiliated/cory) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:21]
mod6 but it's a hell of a lot more than you get when you just volunteer for some shit. [21:21]
mircea_popescu one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc. [21:21]
asciilifeform ^^^ [21:22]
mod6 *nod* [21:22]
mircea_popescu ask not what yer country can do for you! [21:22]
mircea_popescu for currently, it can at most get you in trouble, and that if you're lucky. [21:22]
* PaulCapestany (~PaulCapes@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:22]
mod6 I'd even be open to the idea of two people splitting up the work there. Say, split 2BTC/yr between 2 individuals so that we get good coverage at all times. [21:23]
mod6 Work amongst yourselves to decide who's on duty when so you don't have to worry if out of town or at whorehouse or whatever. [21:24]
* asciilifeform reads logz to see wtf this even was [21:24]
* assbot gives voice to kakobrekla [21:24]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ? [21:24]
mircea_popescu dude it's gotten so bad ~i~ have to ask for tmsr-pravda articles be translated. [21:25]
* asciilifeform misreads as 'wordstar hiphop' [21:25]
kakobrekla < the very same btc said to be worthless/useless/br0kended a couple of days ago [21:25]
assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 00:23:07; mircea_popescu: one does not live ON btc. one lives FOR btc. [21:25]
* DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:25]
funkenstein_ aha a separate hashing of solely the proof of storage digest, this looks like it could work [21:25]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: neh, the other btc [21:25]
mod6 kakobrekla: if you don't like the weather, just wait a few days. [21:25]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla slightly not the same. [21:25]
mod6 :P [21:25]
mircea_popescu but do link with the quotes. [21:26]
funkenstein_ could be added in a la myriad, with separate difficulty [21:26]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ what is this myriad ? [21:26]
* mircea_popescu is starting to suspect this lecherous dwarf may be the only one who cavorted with the scamcoins enough. [21:26]
funkenstein_ its a coin with multiple difficulties for each hash function they use [21:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30592 @ 0.00041989 = 12.8453 BTC [-] {2} [21:26]
funkenstein_ hehe, likely guilty as charged [21:27]
kakobrekla im sorry what other btc, the non existing one ? [21:27]
kakobrekla afaik the real bitcoin foundation collects btc not imaginary btc (at least bbet was sending those) [21:28]
mircea_popescu !s worthless [21:28]
assbot 499 results for 'worthless' : [21:28]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: the one which nobody ended up dumping massive qty of, the price of - not tanked, etc [21:29]
* funkenstein_ retracts myriad scheme suggestion, it is broken [21:29]
mircea_popescu shock. [21:30]
asciilifeform <<< obligatory >>> [21:31]
assbot Logged on 17-03-2016 00:29:57; mircea_popescu: !s worthless [21:31]
assbot The Brave Little Toaster - Worthless (No Interruptions) - YouTube ... ( ) [21:31]
mircea_popescu no but srsly. am i gonna also !s "dump massive" or you get the point. [21:31]
funkenstein_ so in this suggested coin you have proof a pool operator (aka miner) has a full copy of the block chain [21:33]
mircea_popescu aha. [21:34]
asciilifeform l0l lavabit case unsealed [21:35]
asciilifeform (unrelated) [21:36]
ben_vulpes mod6: could be convinced [21:37]
mod6 ok, cool [21:38]
* joesmoe (~joesmoe@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:41]
asciilifeform << mega-turd [21:43]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, at #eulora : [21:43]
assbot dpaste: 29BJV3V ... ( ) [21:43]
asciilifeform the court transcript is pure circus [21:45]
asciilifeform worthy of freisler [21:45]
davout mircea_popescu: btw, pls to read last x.eur statement, contains statement of collateral to be certified by mpex [21:45]
mircea_popescu which was the lavabit ? [21:45]
mircea_popescu davout i did read it. you had 40 btc deposited iirc, neh ? [21:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cryptome link, scan [21:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no i know, but which was it ? [21:46]
davout mircea_popescu: yes [21:46]
mircea_popescu alrighty then. [21:46]
asciilifeform pg 80 iirc [21:46]
davout danke schön [21:47]
mircea_popescu oh oh the email thing, i recall now [21:47]
asciilifeform aha. [21:47]
asciilifeform the usg-gets-paper-masterkey one [21:47]
mircea_popescu yaya [21:47]
mircea_popescu i don't get all these people participating in "sealed" pseudo-legal proceedings. [21:49]
mircea_popescu there is no justice outside of the public forum. if party can not speak in public, it may not pretend like it has a case. [21:50]
asciilifeform bbbbbbut s333333kr1tz!11111 [21:50]
mircea_popescu tough titty. [21:50]
mircea_popescu don't engage in activities you're ashamed of. [21:51]
mircea_popescu if you do - don't come to me to bail you out when they blow up. [21:51]
asciilifeform that'd be ~all of this here zimbabwestan aha. [21:51]
asciilifeform and at any rate none of these folks work in 'justice' business, they work in 'societal security' aka hitler's service. [21:52]
mircea_popescu aha. [21:53]
mircea_popescu sucks to be them, i guess. [21:53]
funkenstein_ asciilifeform how long did you live in zimbabwe? [21:53]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: the great zimbabwe of usistan [21:54]
mircea_popescu he lives in washington dc and doesn't care for term propriety. [21:54]
asciilifeform '92 - present [21:54]
asciilifeform train stations still closed ! [21:54]
funkenstein_ so you are comparing usistan to a place you know nothing about? [21:55]
mircea_popescu eh whadda ya need 'em for. [21:55]
mircea_popescu you ever been funkenstein_ ? [21:55]
funkenstein_ nope [21:55]
mircea_popescu aok. [21:55]
asciilifeform but he is very ready to 'you know nothing' aha. [21:55]
mircea_popescu i think he dislikes your cultural imperialism. [21:56]
funkenstein_ you seem to like talking about it, i assumed you'd been there [21:56]
mircea_popescu "in my mind - i've been many times" [21:56]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: rhodesiana aficionado [21:56]
funkenstein_ :) cool [21:57]
mircea_popescu what, zimbabwe is in rhodesia ?! [21:57]
asciilifeform funkenstein_: and of subj of countries-not-on-the-map-no-moar overall [21:57]
funkenstein_ get a new map if you need one [21:58]
mircea_popescu kinda lulzy. [21:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: == [21:58]
assbot Zim embassy buildings in ruins: Parly hears ... ( ) [21:58]
funkenstein_ lol, with thumbs up even [21:59]
* joesmoe has quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [22:00]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo WORLDSTARHIPHOP < ? << It's basically black youtube for fights and shit [22:00]
mircea_popescu aok [22:01]
* joesmoe (~joesmoe@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:01]
* hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:02]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [22:02]
mircea_popescu and in other dribbles, [22:02]
assbot ... ( ) [22:02]
BingoBoingo Anyways worldstar isn't a tmsr thing, it's more an internet thing. basically If you sucker punch someone it is normally assault. If you shout "World Star" while you do it, it becomes instead a prank. [22:03]
mircea_popescu ah i remember now. [22:04]
BingoBoingo Just one of those black privilege things [22:08]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu << have another lul [22:36]
gribble The operation succeeded. [22:36]
assbot ... ( ) [22:36]
* joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) [22:42]
* Alopex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:48]
* joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:50]
* Alopex ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:54]
asciilifeform << interesting serendipitous find. a cpu-less rs232 viewer (some brain required!111) i thought about this very thing some years ago, and laughed it off mentally, but someone - built. [23:01]
assbot ... ( ) [23:01]
* twixisowned has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* justanot1eruser has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* schmidty has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* nubbins` has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* davout has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* donpillou has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mod6 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Cory has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mixdio has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* m4rCsi_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* polarbeard has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* jidan has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* trinque has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* shesek has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* phf has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* da2ce7 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* pizzaman1337 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Detroit has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Soligor has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* nanotube has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* TheAdversary has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* eric has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* GoMaD_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* funkenstein_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* CrazyTruthYakDDS has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* eth2 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* alphago has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mariorz has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Kushed has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* DreadKnight has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* kakobrekla has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* deedbot- has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* sinetek has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* SuchWow has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* shinohai has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* madpax has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Blazed has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* BigBitz has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* fluffypony has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* gernika has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* lobbes- has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* ryan-c has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* assbot has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* ben_vulpes has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* d9b4bef9 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* gares__ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* knotwork__ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* danielpbarron has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* trippysalmon has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* MCM-Mike has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* crescendo has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* kanzure has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* tris has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* dooglus has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* EPiSKiNG- has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Alopex has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* hanbot has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* toddf has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* The20YearIRCloud has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* nh has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* stoon has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mats has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* AaronvanW has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* gribble has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* punkman has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* julmac has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* livegnik has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* GNULinuxGuy has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Jezzz has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* bad_duck has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* midnightmagic has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* itkin has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* so has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* diana_coman has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Transisto2 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* TheRealJohnGalt has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mrstickball has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* copumpkin has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* rdymac has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* rotarydialer has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* STRML has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* starsoccer has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* liead has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* BingoBoingo has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Keefe_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* warptangent has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* jurov has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* yang has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Luke-Jr has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mthreat has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* taub_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* tych0 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* dub has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* copypaste has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Azelphur has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Aleph0 has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* B0g4r7__ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* dignork has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* t has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* samO__ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* _flow_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* asciilifeform has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* aegis has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* ahmed_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mappum has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* bounce has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* TomServo has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* artifexd has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* rdekley_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* RagnarDanneskjol has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* wpalczynski has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Apocalyptic has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* joecool has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* JPT has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mius__ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* diametric has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Guest84681______ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* [KS] has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* alphonse23_ has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* rmoen has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* elgrecoFL has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Jrum has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* yangwao has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* Taek has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* nezZario has quit (*.net *.split) [23:21]
* mircea_popescu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [23:21]
* Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). [23:21]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [23:38]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [23:38]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [23:38]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [23:38]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [23:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform awww. [23:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0ltr0nic [23:40]
asciilifeform phf et al: to continue the eprom thread, i was never satisfied with the lights box answer to 'how to keep rom burner from lying'. what i really want is a photographic rom, where the storage die is something like 'microdot' and the reader is generic (in chip package) & separable. [23:41]
asciilifeform microdot is trivial to reproduce reliably [23:41]
asciilifeform 100 y.o. tech. [23:41]
asciilifeform bonus if the photo slide is ~composable~ [23:42]
phf microdot? [23:42]
asciilifeform i.e. i can insert >1 on top of one another. [23:42]
asciilifeform microdot. [23:42]
phf ah, ok, got it [23:42]
asciilifeform the ultimate vpatch ! [23:42]
asciilifeform anyway this is page [redacted] from ye old 'coffin notebook'. [23:43]
asciilifeform presented here because thread. [23:43]
phf this is a borderline art project [23:44]
mircea_popescu ^ [23:44]
asciilifeform it is in re the 'specificity of diddling' thing. [23:44]
asciilifeform enemy can embed extra mosfet in the reader, or whatever, but how does he know ~where~, etc. [23:45]
phf kind of stuff i'd see come out of martin howse's workshop (and his people) [23:45]
asciilifeform (and say i can hook up N of these, and the net result is xor of the lot!) [23:45]
asciilifeform ^ then they can contain literally ~anything~ and still produce my intended bitstring. [23:45]
mircea_popescu dude, the "enemy" has enough trouble finding its own arse. [23:45]
phf defending against hypothetical lizard alf [23:46]
asciilifeform enemy can be persuaded to make a good faith effort to at least occasionally find his arse [23:46]
asciilifeform esp. if we keep kicking him in it. [23:46]
mircea_popescu but not much more. [23:46]
asciilifeform anyway hopefully everyone understands against whom my designs are actually made. [23:46]
mircea_popescu and in other borderline art project news, [23:47]
asciilifeform they are built with the assumption that i will eventually be cokemachined personally and somehow made to fight for the nazis. [23:47]
assbot ... ( ) [23:47]
asciilifeform it is a dismal thing, to play chess with self. [23:47]
mircea_popescu srsly. [23:47]
asciilifeform but how else. [23:47]
mircea_popescu gurlz! [23:48]
asciilifeform not like i got anybody worth playing. [23:48]
asciilifeform l0l [23:48]
asciilifeform phf: i am long-time fan of howse. [23:49]
asciilifeform though i know him as '1010' [23:49]
phf oh, ok, now things make even more sense [23:49]
asciilifeform 'The Dark Interpreter is influenced and guided by body capacitance, skin resistance, biological micro-voltages and the fleshy conduction of all signals. These are ways of saying that the Dark Interpreter is completely open. It is not to be considered as a closed and bounded device which is subject to an exterior control "by the body." The Dark Interpreter is an electronic and thus earthy shadow of the body, it is (inside) the [23:50]
asciilifeform body. The Dark Interpreter is thus not to be controlled. It is an obsidian electronic mirror, the earth and skin itself.' << i lack the wordz. [23:50]
asciilifeform 'Inspired in part by a cursory reading of Kafka's short story, In the Penal Colony, in which a complex executable mechanism, its workings and social procedure, are described, a mechanism which inscribes the sentence (of the law) directly on the skin of the 'Condemned Man', pain registers attempts to directly translate or transfer the operational codes which are running on a computer's CPU (Central Processing Unit) in 'real tim [23:52]
asciilifeform e' (whilst a common program such as the Firefox web browser is running) into the slow and painful inscription of a needle, piercing the skin of the operator or user's hand. A particular, common operational code such as that dictating the movement of the contents of one place in memory to another location, results in the needle achieving a certain depth in the hand, another opcode, say demanding the addition of two values, migh [23:52]
asciilifeform t barely touch the skin of the hand. The repetitive rhythms of changing operational codes, as an application for example initialises its opening state, are translated into the hypnotic, up and down movements of the needle (making use in the second prototype of a CD-ROM ejection mechanism), appearing somewhat like the slowed, jerked motions of a sewing machine.' [23:52]
asciilifeform ^ mega-art. [23:52]
asciilifeform i have not, it turns out, been keeping up with the fella. [23:53]
asciilifeform why isn't he here, again?!1111 [23:53]
asciilifeform 'If codes can fuck your computer, where’s the porn that depicts them?' << him [23:53]
hanbot mod6: [23:54]
hanbot jurov: yeah, totally could be something that already exists like that sure. the realy problem is finding souls to actually DO the work there. << i'd be happy to help out however i can. how far back do you see this having to go btw? [23:54]
asciilifeform << glorious [23:57]
assbot psplague ... ( ) [23:57]
asciilifeform 'Inspired by Julian Oliver's psworld, psplague further explores the links between environment (simulation) and code. Rather than mapping a computer's internal processes onto visual features in the world (as in the case of psworld), in this instance (psplague) UNIX-like processes are attached to medieval villagers within a simple SIR (susceptible, infected, recovered) model of plague infection. When a villager becomes infected [23:57]
asciilifeform and dies after a period of time, the attached process running on the computer is terminated or killed. Warning: psplague can result in a more or less instantaneous hard crash.' [23:57]
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.