Forum logs for 11 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

BingoBoingo	hashes to hashes, dust to dust << Gotta keep the dust under control though. Fans and everything.	[00:04]
BingoBoingo	* mircea_popescu wonders if all these people were waiting on winnings to make more bets. << Likely	[00:07]
BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: YES THERE ARE, ADVERTISED EVEN, NO WONDERING REQUIRED!	[00:08]
*	adlie has quit (Quit: Not all who wonder for lust)	[00:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8040 @ 0.0005016 = 4.0329 BTC [+] {4}	[00:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7535 @ 0.00049781 = 3.751 BTC [-]	[00:13]
BingoBoingo	It's even been pointed out here before. After the "mysterious" amaclin fellow malleated transactions to high-s the power rangers started operating some nodes that automalleated everything passing through to low-s	[00:13]
BingoBoingo	Even without that it is clear from the BitBet payout problem that people are running nodes that malleate to low-s	[00:15]
BingoBoingo	There's no need to wonder about things actually being seen on the network.	[00:16]
ben_vulpes	'linker file input unused because linking not done' << anyone ever see this while compiling trb on open bsd?	[00:18]
ben_vulpes	using scripts from stator ml post.	[00:18]
thestringpuller	danielpbarron: nice find >> https://twitter.com/Disruptepreneur/status/686358988523319296 I wonder how it will play out.	[00:19]
*	linton_s_dawson (linton_s_d@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-vilbvmkyrtijzutl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00050112 = 7.3164 BTC [+] {2}	[00:22]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Which GCC are you using?	[00:23]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: 4.2.1	[00:24]
BingoBoingo	Is that the right version?	[00:25]
ben_vulpes	i don't even know what the right version would be, beyond "not apple's"	[00:25]
*	BingoBoingo doesn't remember details of the setup he uses to compile bastard client, should prolly work on that after getting some newsing done	[00:25]
ben_vulpes	BaStarD client?	[00:25]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: The one where I apply alf patches to 0.7.2 after finding locations and they usually work	[00:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00050112 = 12.4278 BTC [+]	[00:27]
*	BingoBoingo was drunk for most of the chopping so most details are lost to history	[00:27]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: afaik nobody's done a proper crapple (clang) build as of yet	[00:27]
asciilifeform	(and it is not clear why this'd be a useful thing)	[00:27]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: that is not what i'm working on.	[00:28]
ben_vulpes	and didn't fluffypony?	[00:28]
asciilifeform	fwiw i have full bore civilized gcc toolchain on my salt mine mbp.	[00:28]
asciilifeform	with gdb, etc.	[00:28]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: iirc he used actual gcc	[00:29]
ben_vulpes	anyways, this is all a bloody mystery to me. i've never seen a sh script crap out midway through and not run its remaining bits, but thats what stator seems to do over here.	[00:31]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365915 << remind me again why you have a sideshow thing and not trb	[00:31]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 02:56:50; BingoBoingo: ^ currently in live fire on zoolag and dulap << Applied to my bastardized testbed	[00:31]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: what kind of box is 'over here' ?	[00:31]
ben_vulpes	old macbook pro running openbsd 5.8	[00:32]
asciilifeform	ah hm	[00:32]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I have a linux trb, but I keep sideshow because inertia and curiosity.	[00:32]
ben_vulpes	totally vanilla install from bsd.rb	[00:32]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i have an openbsd box here but it will not build trb, not enough ram (+swap even)	[00:32]
asciilifeform	so i cannot replicate.	[00:32]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: does it build /boost/?	[00:32]
asciilifeform	nope	[00:32]
ben_vulpes	hm.	[00:33]
asciilifeform	it's a toshiba libretto 100ct.	[00:33]
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asciilifeform	iirc when i did netbsd i built for linux and used the compat layer.	[00:34]
asciilifeform	this is prolly the reasonable thing to do.	[00:34]
asciilifeform	esp. now that it ACTUALLY WORKS because no more idiot glibc crud	[00:35]
*	assbot gives voice to adlai	[00:35]
ben_vulpes	trb compiled just dandily on the ubuntu i had on the box previously	[00:35]
ben_vulpes	machine in question has 4G of ram, should be 'all anyone ever needed'	[00:35]
asciilifeform	my experience with openbsd for daily life has not been very satisfying	[00:35]
asciilifeform	the build system is thoroughly infested with crud	[00:36]
asciilifeform	e.g., want x11 emacs ? say hello to dbus	[00:36]
asciilifeform	EVEN ON GENTOO i do not suffer this	[00:36]
asciilifeform	fuck it	[00:36]
asciilifeform	full depoetteringization with ONE MOTHERFUCKING CONFIG LINE or go home.	[00:36]
asciilifeform	i do not understand why openbsd is revered today	[00:37]
asciilifeform	the founder is willfully blind and surrounded by usg monkeys	[00:37]
asciilifeform	who 'speak for him' and insult mircea_popescu on his behalf	[00:37]
asciilifeform	and they have done their work on the miserable os, and it shows	[00:38]
ben_vulpes	if it continues to fail to compile trb i may embark on gentoo quest instead.	[00:38]
asciilifeform	and theo boils his belt and accordion while 'aggressive queergendered' eat caviar in 'hackathons'	[00:39]
trinque	there was an effort to shit portage onto openbsd	[00:39]
asciilifeform	trinque: there was also an effort to stitch monkey and dog together	[00:39]
trinque	stalled.	[00:39]
asciilifeform	in the middle ages.	[00:39]
trinque	hardly an apt comparison.	[00:39]
asciilifeform	very apt, in that neither came to anything or is ever likely to.	[00:39]
BingoBoingo	!b 4	[00:40]
assbot	Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1AH6BWE.txt )	[00:40]
trinque	heh	[00:41]
asciilifeform	hm, does anybody even update bashlog any moar.	[00:41]
*	adlai recalls something about calls for moderation	[00:42]
trinque	davout was conscripted	[00:42]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365969 << possibly the same psychological process that makes people proud of impenetrable shell scripts for munging text	[00:43]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:35:14; asciilifeform: i do not understand why openbsd is revered today	[00:43]
kakobrekla	anyone else wanna be bash mod?	[00:43]
trinque	ben_vulpes: ahem. Makefile.	[00:43]
ben_vulpes	heh.	[00:43]
adlai	kakobrekla: what are the qualifications? L4? ability to verify deeds? these things have to be selective, to keep out idiots...	[00:44]
ben_vulpes	i'm curious to see if your makefile works on this (apprently) insane device, trinque.	[00:44]
trinque	I don't buy it	[00:44]
trinque	the whole world is made of shit	[00:44]
trinque	I'm quite liking the texture of this turd atm	[00:44]
ben_vulpes	don't you dare grow proud of tools that you made to wrap your hands around the shitworld's throat trinque. it's not a symbolics machine!	[00:45]
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kakobrekla	adlai i dunno, not being an idiot goes a long way.	[00:45]
adlai	the problem, as our mopheaded joo 'discovered', is that even human stupidity is relative	[00:46]
adlai	;;later tell mike_c candle charts lacking a couple weeks of recency	[00:47]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:47]
kakobrekla	theres also absolute stupidity, no?	[00:47]
adlai	how do you measure it?	[00:48]
adlai	if it's absolute, you should be able to build a stupidometer	[00:48]
adlai	composed of nothing but lead and plutonium	[00:48]
adlai	maybe a smattering of !down syndrome, but that makes in non-absoloot	[00:49]
adlai	who runs mpex.re btw? it's consistently returning empty html tables :(	[00:50]
adlai	ah there we go.	[00:50]
*	adlai swears he tried enough times to justify the spam... goodnight now, may tomorrow be soberer and less smeared with shit	[00:50]
kakobrekla	im not convinced absolutity is the absolute condition for measurability	[00:50]
asciilifeform	;;seen mike_c	[00:51]
gribble	mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already	[00:51]
adlai	!s seen mike_c	[00:51]
assbot	103 results for 'seen mike_c' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=seen+mike_c	[00:52]
asciilifeform	anybody have a finger on him in meatspace ?	[00:52]
asciilifeform	mod6 ?	[00:52]
adlai	dude vaporized from the face of the logs, although apparently still receives ;;later tells	[00:52]
kakobrekla	how would you know that?	[00:52]
adlai	action and reaction	[00:52]
mod6	asciilifeform: naw, i dont	[00:52]
ben_vulpes	speed at which he brought btcalpha back up?	[00:52]
ben_vulpes	one could...email the man.	[00:53]
kakobrekla	this doesnt mean he actually read it.	[00:53]
*	ben_vulpes shrugs	[00:53]
ben_vulpes	re: operating systems, i am looking forward to gabriel_laddel's thing.	[00:53]
adlai	the fact that i mention foucault all the time doesn't mean anybody pays attention to me obsessively quoting it, either	[00:53]
trinque	ben_vulpes: that thing gets to be called a desktop environment at best	[00:53]
adlai	lol!	[00:53]
adlai	ben_vulpes: have you followed "cl os" thread much?	[00:53]
kakobrekla	most of the time when assbots drops down i get yelled at but i almost never actually do something about it to bring it back, yet here it is.	[00:54]
adlai	in the wider-than-ba sense of 'thread'	[00:54]
adlai	even loper died	[00:54]
*	adlai takes off hat << ami doin it rite?	[00:54]
adlai	!down adlai	[00:54]
*	assbot has kicked adlai from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.)	[00:54]
asciilifeform	adlai: dies properly when i'm dead	[00:54]
asciilifeform	until then, we zombie along, throwing maggotrous pieces at people	[00:55]
ben_vulpes	trinque: sure.	[00:55]
trinque	I just huddle inside emacs talking to myself	[00:55]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell adlai not particularly.	[00:56]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:56]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366025 << y'know, reimplementing portage in cl (or whatever, fuck, in fortran if you want) instead of python doesn't magically unbreak the foss ecosystem	[00:56]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:51:20; ben_vulpes: re: operating systems, i am looking forward to gabriel_laddel's thing.	[00:56]
ben_vulpes	emacs is a good example of tools with which to throttle complexity, aka intelligence augmentation	[00:56]
asciilifeform	that is quite certainly rotten to all hell	[00:56]
ben_vulpes	tangentially related, i ran across 'sorcerer' the other day. funny little corner of linux, that.	[00:58]
asciilifeform	was sorta like a micro-gentoo	[01:00]
ben_vulpes	lol "the popularity of a tool is proportionate to the amount of time it makes its users waste"	[01:00]
asciilifeform	but, iirc, didn't have USE flags and other niceties	[01:00]
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asciilifeform	http://sorcerer.highsphere.net << loads but links dead	[01:01]
assbot	Sorcerer Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1mPoWcU )	[01:01]
asciilifeform	sad.	[01:01]
ben_vulpes	deathcomesforusall	[01:01]
*	Cristina (~Cristina@228.Red-80-39-202.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[01:01]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: not quite: 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!'	[01:02]
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ben_vulpes	the odd unlucky derp attains immortality?	[01:05]
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trinque	!up gabriel_laddel	[01:07]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[01:07]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.82797180 BTC on 'No' - S&P 500 to close above 2000 on December 30th - http://bitbet.us/bet/1238/s-p-500-to-close-above-2000-on-december/#b4	[01:14]
*	Cristina (5027cae4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.39.202.228) has left #bitcoin-assets	[01:15]
BingoBoingo	connection from 186.137.7.31:54829 dropped (banned) << Win	[01:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9050 @ 0.00050409 = 4.562 BTC [+]	[01:16]
BingoBoingo	ERROR: BANNED peer issuing heathen command. << Bigger win. Debug.log is fun.	[01:17]
gabriel_laddel	ben_vulpes: "no, no dedicated sales people yet. why do you ask?" < Curiosity.	[01:18]
gabriel_laddel	asciilifeform: Spiffy keyboard.	[01:18]
trinque	asciilifeform: for my curiosity, if the tubes have mouths, could your patch be used by $enemy to alter the topology of the network in ways beneficial to it?	[01:22]
trinque	hitler doesn't want you to talk to nodes X Y Z, so he barfs up packets with a heathen commands.	[01:24]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[01:24]
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asciilifeform	trinque: i did say this to mircea_popescu.	[01:49]
asciilifeform	trinque: plaintext node-node link is a doomed thing.	[01:49]
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BingoBoingo	!up raedah	[01:53]
*	assbot gives voice to raedah	[01:53]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.0005039 = 9.0198 BTC [-] {3}	[02:06]
phf	ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd.	[02:14]
phf	the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction	[02:15]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Reference Client Patch Bans Bloom Filter Parasites - http://qntra.net/2016/01/reference-client-patch-bans-bloom-filter-parasites/	[02:18]
phf	(trying to debug via serial cable on a pentium 233 is it's own kind of fun....)	[02:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21650 @ 0.00049831 = 10.7884 BTC [-] {3}	[02:19]
BingoBoingo	^ No promise IP in article was IP actually seen in debug.log	[02:19]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21542 @ 0.00050644 = 10.9097 BTC [+] {2}	[02:35]
ben_vulpes	programmers and their bonzai trees of complexity	[02:39]
ben_vulpes	nightmare hybrid zen rock combing garden and jenga	[02:40]
mats	i can't visualize this	[02:43]
BingoBoingo	mats: Imagine the rocks are wet and the rake is sodium	[02:44]
ben_vulpes	in freefall	[02:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35104 @ 0.00049865 = 17.5046 BTC [-]	[02:45]
mats	but where is the jenga	[02:46]
ben_vulpes	aha it's backwards jenga	[02:47]
ben_vulpes	you add new bits and try to not knock the whole thing over	[02:47]
mats	one can't just smash japanesu words together with jenga and expect this to be comprehensible	[02:48]
ben_vulpes	all the while gently raking the rocks and snipping ornamentally at the leaves	[02:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4468 @ 0.00049865 = 2.228 BTC [-]	[02:48]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[02:58]
gribble	Current Blocks: 392774 \| Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 \| Next Difficulty In: 345 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 0 hours, 25 minutes, and 15 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[02:59]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00050645 = 5.6976 BTC [+]	[03:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00050645 = 2.6842 BTC [+]	[03:16]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69350 @ 0.00050571 = 35.071 BTC [-]	[03:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00049992 = 13.0479 BTC [-] {4}	[03:24]
copypaste	mircea_popescu: i see you're having trouble with internet.bs - they seized a domain of mine without warning before, and only gave it back when i retained a lawyer in the Bahamas; the domain was 8chan.co	[03:36]
BingoBoingo	copypaste: I suspect the reason you dislike pete_dushenski aping trilema is he comes from boring Canada and his cool factor and empire potential are limited by that.	[03:38]
copypaste	i would further like to let you know that internet.bs has been sold since you and i registered our domains there, of course without notice to us	[03:38]
copypaste	(if in fact you registered trilema.com on the creation day of 2009-06-07)	[03:39]
copypaste	https://www.centralnic.com/company/news/2014/centralnic-buys-domain-name-registrar-internet-bs-ibs	[03:39]
assbot	CentralNic buys domain name registrar Internet.bs (IBS) \| Press from 2014 \| Press \| About \| CentralNic ... ( http://bit.ly/1RF4szm )	[03:39]
BingoBoingo	copypaste: He changed registrars from namecheap when they went derpy web 2.goatse	[03:41]
copypaste	internet.bs changed my nameservers to IBS controlled nameservers which served their own ads and intercepted all cookies to the 8chan.co domain	[03:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24343 @ 0.00050648 = 12.3292 BTC [+] {4}	[03:42]
copypaste	well BingoBoingo, i'd also recommend you read this in case you need a refresher on how DNS actually works http://www.kimmoa.se/The_rotten_and_corrupt_Domain_Name_System/	[03:42]
assbot	The rotten and corrupt Domain Name System (DNS; EuroDNS = thieves) - KimmoA.se ... ( http://bit.ly/1RF4Nlu )	[03:42]
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BingoBoingo	DNS works as NSA spyware	[03:43]
copypaste	people who own domains are absolutely at the mercy of the registering company, because the registering company IS the actual owner according to ICANN	[03:43]
BingoBoingo	Yes	[03:43]
copypaste	and ICANN is a corrupt organization because it's USG affiliated	[03:43]
BingoBoingo	And Glibc DNS functions force dynamic linking which is why excised from trb	[03:43]
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copypaste	i really hope trilema.com will stay online and they won't steal it, but based on my interactions with internet.bs i'm worried	[03:44]
copypaste	i recommend you retain an attorney in the bahamas like i did	[03:44]
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BingoBoingo	win https://twitter.com/guruvan/status/686432614018891776	[03:45]
copypaste	BingoBoingo: we all know that the best DNS system is a GPG based one. private key trumps all nebulous ideas of "ownership" and "terms of service".	[03:45]
BingoBoingo	"@qntra we always recommend running your own nodes for security. To run with "altruism" as one's security plan is nothing but a fool's errand"	[03:45]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell guruvan thank you for stepping up on this issue	[03:46]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:46]
mats	whats this gpg based dns system	[03:46]
copypaste	it doesn't exist but in my own head	[03:47]
BingoBoingo	gossipd	[03:47]
copypaste	but, it would be the best system ever made.	[03:47]
copypaste	(for DNS _)	[03:47]
BingoBoingo	namecoin could have not sucked, but too late for that	[03:48]
copypaste	indeed. the problem with DNS is how entrenched it is.	[03:49]
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copypaste	honestly after this happened to me i went into a deep depression that took months to recover from; all of my perceptions of the internet were shattered. and as an aside that's why i no longer own 8chan	[03:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16786 @ 0.00050688 = 8.5085 BTC [+] {3}	[03:50]
BingoBoingo	Muh feels	[03:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7705 @ 0.00050729 = 3.9087 BTC [+]	[03:51]
ben_vulpes	copypaste: were you the guy running mp's ads?	[03:53]
BingoBoingo	But yeah, my perceptions of the internet continually break and have to recompile	[03:53]
copypaste	yes i was ben_vulpes, for the month that they were paid for	[03:53]
copypaste	renegotiation of that contract would have to be with ads@8ch.net , not me	[03:54]
copypaste	it's probably not worth it though, 8chan is moribund	[03:55]
ben_vulpes	eyeballs are fickle.	[03:57]
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copypaste	it has a chance of bouncing back, in the same way that gavin's career has a chance of bouncing back	[03:57]
copypaste	it could happen sure; will it? it's not likely	[03:58]
copypaste	BingoBoingo: now i never make assumptions about ownership. quite the opposite. if it's not backed by a private key i just assume i don't own it, less disappointment that way.	[03:59]
BingoBoingo	ic	[03:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90300 @ 0.00050662 = 45.7478 BTC [-] {8}	[04:01]
BingoBoingo	K, qntra's slow seems to have a touch of the DDoS. Going to sleep. Anyone who wants to write about Intel's Skylake already having a rowhammer exploit coded for its DDR4 controler feel free to sumbit a piece.	[04:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00050899 = 6.9732 BTC [+] {2}	[04:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00051112 = 1.7889 BTC [+]	[04:59]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00050313 = 2.1886 BTC [-] {2}	[05:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00050757 = 7.6136 BTC [+] {3}	[05:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29836 @ 0.00050312 = 15.0111 BTC [-] {3}	[05:48]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype - http://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#b8	[05:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24088 @ 0.0005144 = 12.3909 BTC [+] {3}	[05:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00050099 = 15.4305 BTC [-]	[06:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18781 @ 0.0005168 = 9.706 BTC [+] {4}	[06:28]
punkman	http://www.spamhaus.org/news/article/726/	[06:37]
assbot	Verizon Routing Millions of IP Addresses for Cybercrime Gangs ... ( http://bit.ly/1JEMJXr )	[06:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8150 @ 0.00051705 = 4.214 BTC [+]	[07:04]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00051282 = 13.3333 BTC [-] {4}	[07:11]
punkman	http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a4a9a650-b807-11e5-bf7e-8a339b6f2164.html	[07:26]
assbot	Shenzhen closes down 6.6% as China market rout continues - FT.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1SJ9w6B )	[07:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00051023 = 2.5001 BTC [-] {2}	[07:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00051023 = 4.2094 BTC [-]	[07:47]
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punkman	!up nikthebookie	[08:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32968 @ 0.00051617 = 17.0171 BTC [+] {5}	[08:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20082 @ 0.00051713 = 10.385 BTC [+]	[08:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00051724 = 20.793 BTC [+] {2}	[08:08]
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jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2016#1364575 depends which yurp. the slovakistan healthcare deteriorates so quickly that all pregnant women i know did at least consider it.	[08:16]
assbot	Logged on 10-01-2016 03:54:17; mircea_popescu: but anyway. natural birth has a huge following in the states. almost unknown in yurp.	[08:16]
jurov	only few days ago heating in biggest hospital in bratislava fell out and they had to haul women in labour around	[08:17]
kakobrekla	natural = in the barn ?	[08:17]
jurov	no, home, usually in the tub	[08:18]
jurov	with some professional assistant available	[08:18]
kakobrekla	yeah, midwifes	[08:19]
jurov	lulz were when they asked PM about it while he ran his 3rd pressconference about syrian refugees in month	[08:20]
jurov	he literally said "stfu, the boiler room is not my responsibility"	[08:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14341 @ 0.00051737 = 7.4196 BTC [+] {4}	[08:43]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49243 @ 0.00051821 = 25.5182 BTC [+] {3}	[08:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00051911 = 5.3468 BTC [+]	[08:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00051603 = 6.5536 BTC [-] {4}	[09:27]
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punkman	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYZCvIIUsAAJRPP.jpg:large	[09:38]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RhQhBL )	[09:38]
shinohai	srsly? Life in the land of the free ....	[09:39]
punkman	http://www.deathandtaxes.com/antigovviolence.pdf	[09:46]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RhQLI5 )	[09:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00050727 = 4.9205 BTC [-]	[09:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4441 @ 0.00050624 = 2.2482 BTC [-] {3}	[10:03]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2016#1364932 They will laugh at you back with your cravings of sugar.	[10:14]
assbot	Logged on 10-01-2016 06:21:12; BingoBoingo: Could simulate these changes with benzodiazepine dependence (which is why people who do the Keto thing recreationally start to feel sick when carbs are introduced, ketosis stops and they undergo a drug withdrawal)	[10:14]
adlai	!t m s.mpoe	[10:16]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00048327 / 0.00050429 / 0.00051911 (1339213 shares, 675.35 BTC), 7D: 0.00047125 / 0.00050131 / 0.00052085 (8567396 shares, 4,295.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00047125 / 0.00049646 / 0.00052085 (85080661 shares, 42,239.77 BTC)	[10:16]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366010 << you mean measurabilititty.	[10:17]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:48:39; kakobrekla: im not convinced absolutity is the absolute condition for measurability	[10:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366026 << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=foucault lettuce not get ahead of our selves.	[10:19]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:51:27; adlai: the fact that i mention foucault all the time doesn't mean anybody pays attention to me obsessively quoting it, either	[10:19]
assbot	3 results for 'foucault' - #bitcoin-assets search	[10:19]
adlai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-07-2015#1218408 << "never keep"? what does this even	[10:20]
assbot	Logged on 30-07-2015 19:17:09; shinohai: Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum	[10:20]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366041 << more importantly, it's not clear to me portage is even useful anymore. since v i mean.	[10:21]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:54:29; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366025 << y'know, reimplementing portage in cl (or whatever, fuck, in fortran if you want) instead of python doesn't magically unbreak the foss ecosystem	[10:21]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366053 << i had no idea lenin shat in the bidet before.	[10:22]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:59:57; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not quite: 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!'	[10:22]
mircea_popescu	"lenin, lived ; lenin, lives ; lenin shat in the bidet!"	[10:23]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366063 <<< certainly. which is why trb nodes are not all advertised, and we're eagerly awaiting seeing this "pure coincidence".	[10:24]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 04:21:48; trinque: hitler doesn't want you to talk to nodes X Y Z, so he barfs up packets with a heathen commands.	[10:24]
mircea_popescu	that "never happened"	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	and etc.	[10:25]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366093 << not exactly, at least not yet. we had an exchange, they backed off. (last i heard was "We have already asked the complainant to contact the webhost as we do not provide hosting services and cannot remove any content from the website. We are awaiting their response and will forward you the details once they respond." which is exactly what one'd expect sane people	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	would say to try and extricate themselves from the potential mess).	[10:29]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 06:34:49; copypaste: mircea_popescu: i see you're having trouble with internet.bs - they seized a domain of mine without warning before, and only gave it back when i retained a lawyer in the Bahamas; the domain was 8chan.co	[10:29]
mircea_popescu	from what intel reports they had a cowboy period ~in2014 when they stole a bunch of domains, got slapped with some suits, lost a coupla worth their income for the decade and settled right the fuck down.	[10:30]
mircea_popescu	anyway, judging by the [Ticket#2015121310000406] header it'd seem they sat on this for almost a month - from dec 13 to jan 9th. but whatevers, i was just looking for a pretext to throw the whole dns bullshit away anyway.	[10:31]
mircea_popescu	i want domain names like i want a wide selection of hats.	[10:31]
adlai	"naked people have little to no influence on society" - mark twain iirc?	[10:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00050485 = 11.0562 BTC [-] {4}	[10:36]
mircea_popescu	this was pre-mp.	[10:37]
mircea_popescu	these days, dressed women will have little influence on society.	[10:37]
copypaste	interesting mircea_popescu. i won't ask where you got that intel from, but it means i wasn't the only one affected	[10:40]
copypaste	and i wasn't the only one to open cases in bahamas courts	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366096 << no, i moved it a few weeks ago.	[10:40]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 06:37:06; copypaste: (if in fact you registered trilema.com on the creation day of 2009-06-07)	[10:40]
mircea_popescu	copypaste tons of people were affected and the eventual sale was related.	[10:41]
mircea_popescu	originally i registered the domain with namecheap ; originally namecheap was a great registrar. meanwhile they went to utter shit, the story is both on trilema an' in the logs.	[10:41]
copypaste	do you have a comment on the kimmoa.se article? i think it's spot on but you definitely know all the details already	[10:42]
copypaste	DNS is ICANN and ICANN is USG	[10:42]
copypaste	therefore DNS is USG	[10:42]
copypaste	no way around it.	[10:42]
mircea_popescu	which article is this ?	[10:42]
copypaste	i linked it above in the log	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	ahj saw it	[10:43]
copypaste	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366102	[10:43]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 06:40:37; copypaste: well BingoBoingo, i'd also recommend you read this in case you need a refresher on how DNS actually works http://www.kimmoa.se/The_rotten_and_corrupt_Domain_Name_System/	[10:43]
mircea_popescu	i can't make any sense of said article, myself.	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	so guy is pissed off and likes to call things names. fine.	[10:45]
mircea_popescu	for one thing, if half a mil is " you can just forget about that right away." to you, then on what the fuck is your expectation to participate in the workings of society based ?!	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	obviously EVERY naming system will work exactly like the dns, or like the wot works : either be at the table, or be a child looking for parents.	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	how else ?	[10:46]
copypaste	the wot works better than DNS	[10:47]
copypaste	because the WoT is keybased	[10:47]
copypaste	and DNS is fiat biased	[10:47]
copypaste	i would accept a WoT DNS	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	well, yes, because it wasn't made by idiots. but the fundamental point remains : someone excluded could re-use that article by re-writing 5 words.	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	but in point of fact you can run a dns server right now, and tell everyone to use it, and for everyone who does use it... your version of the ns will be visible.	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	heck, there was a bitcoin-based thing that kinda worked on that premise. namecoin.	[10:48]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b28	[10:48]
copypaste	oh sure, but you don't get to create names on the real DNS	[10:48]
copypaste	the one anyone cares about	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	there is no "real" dns.	[10:48]
copypaste	it's like making an altcoin	[10:48]
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copypaste	ICANN has given themselves authority to make new TLDs, ICANN has given themselves ultimate authority over names	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	well yes. your choices are : either have enough power / capiutal / value to acquire enough actual btc to matter in that world ; or else to get used to not mattering in the world ; or else to have even more power and force an alt into being.	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	no, the usg has given icann such authority.	[10:49]
adlai	someday somebody will care enough about this to cannibalize what's left of namecoin and build a proper Bitcoin DNS	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	and every derp out there in indonesia or peru or wherever saving in dollars in preference of my currency, or his president's currency, has given usg such power.	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	if they change that behaviour, the world will re-arrange and so on.	[10:50]
copypaste	"la florida and other places"	[10:50]
copypaste	:)	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	that one yeah.	[10:50]
adlai	maybe naming systems shouldn't be design around "investment" and flipping ownership each month!	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	there is no other way to design a naming system.	[10:50]
adlai	other than?	[10:50]
*	adlai wasn't aware that there was one single blessed version, DNS is just the good-enough fiat leftover that we have today	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	this goes all the way down to actual working of language. do we power the ns that calls me racist and evil ? do we power the ns that calls tess d'urberville or w/e her name is fat and obama an idiot ?	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	you can't have two.	[10:51]
adlai	they can bid it off	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	naming is by its nature this : that there will be a group in power, allocating the names, and everyone else can go suck it.	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	ha-ha. this is what i'll call the delusion of heysteve, this "they can bid it off", after http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300465	[10:55]
assbot	Logged on 16-10-2015 13:23:33; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-10-2015#1300279 << so a) you'll spend your life driving between bickering nuts. this is a worse deal than what psychs get, at least there you gotta drive to his office. ; b) the blockchain and everything else is entirely superfluous here. your entire idea is "hey, make me the mp of renting in south africa". maybe they will or maybe they won't but	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	who the fuck do you think you are that they'd bother to "bid it off" ? they won't bid it off in front of you, they'll just ignore your delusion.	[10:55]
copypaste	i don't see why naming has to be this way.	[10:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00050726 = 1.4711 BTC [+] {2}	[10:57]
copypaste	naming based on the bitcoin blockchain is best. i own this bitcoin private key, i own this domain.	[10:57]
copypaste	it's already like that on the tor network.	[10:57]
copypaste	i own this private key, i own domain derpxxxxx.onion.	[10:57]
copypaste	you can;'t take it away from me unless you get the key. that's how naming should be.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	you familiar with the name zooko ?	[10:58]
copypaste	dns was good in the time of fiat, it's worthless for the new paradigm.	[10:58]
copypaste	i'm not unfortunately.	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	yes. well, look into the zooko triangle.	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	yes, naming can work like that, if 8chan.co and 94875984375983.jksldak are the same to you.	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, a bitcoin vanity address with five specified letters (out of the whole set) takes a day.	[10:59]
punkman	might as well do gpg-signed /etc/hosts entries	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	in fact, v-powered /etc/hosts may even be a serious improvement over the current situation.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	"i want to use the dns for back-up, whenever what ~these~ people use doesn't contain an answer". seems pretty cool.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	and incidentally, how the dns was actually designed to be used. the current centralist windowstardian webstupidity only works the way it works because of the userbase. the design is fine, but "everyone"\| and "has come to expect" and bullshit like that make people pretend like a suboptimal local maximum is relevant to the graph. well... it ain't.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	hey panzers... we actually game to doing this ? it really dun cost much and it does resolve an actual problem, provide a serious incentive to participate, makes nice media headlines... low hanging fruit.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu	it can even run as an antispam service in parallel. if i go 127.0.0.1 doubleclick.net in my file, you won't be seeing any ads from them in your browser, no matter what they do.	[11:12]
mircea_popescu	it also introduces a kinda dubious but possibly useful ddos protector, in the sense that one can run different ips for the meatriver and for the wotdns.	[11:14]
shinohai	That would be stellar	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	lettuce see what trinque ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov kakobrekla & co say when they wakeup	[11:16]
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mircea_popescu	o hey, what happened to guruvan	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	;;seen guruvan	[11:25]
gribble	guruvan was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 13 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: have the right key in there?	[11:25]
mircea_popescu	!up guruvan	[11:25]
-assbot-	You voiced guruvan for 30 minutes.	[11:25]
*	assbot gives voice to guruvan	[11:25]
*	mircea_popescu waves	[11:25]
jurov	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1365829 if you insist on people telling you what you "must" or "we must do" then I'll tell you this: you must study what was done already before spamming opinions around.	[11:29]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 01:48:18; *: adlai will have to implement his own, so it runs on his 'pogo'	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366130 << i suspect i had an incorrect idea of your involvement with that thing.	[11:29]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 06:52:12; copypaste: renegotiation of that contract would have to be with ads@8ch.net , not me	[11:29]
mircea_popescu	i tend to do this "X's item" because that's how the republic works. obviously, not how the fiatosphere does.	[11:30]
jurov	as you can see i've woken up, still have a half a day to go	[11:30]
jurov	or it's urgent?	[11:30]
mircea_popescu	nah not urgent, just important.	[11:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00051069 = 12.6651 BTC [+] {3}	[11:34]
copypaste	mircea_popescu: i suspect i also had an incorrect idea of my involvement with that thing	[11:42]
mircea_popescu	hahaha	[11:43]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366164 <<< if they do it right after a run of bootleg liquour, it also disinfects!	[11:49]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 11:16:03; jurov: no, home, usually in the tub	[11:49]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366176 << ahahaha what the shit.	[11:50]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 12:44:25; punkman: http://www.deathandtaxes.com/antigovviolence.pdf	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	this wouldn't be http://trilema.com/2015/gerald-davis-is-wrong-heres-why/ would it ?	[11:50]
assbot	Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGaxvt )	[11:50]
mircea_popescu	in any case, http://www.deathandtaxes.com/?p=58 << shot a cop!	[11:51]
*	assbot removes voice from guruvan	[11:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13591 @ 0.00051259 = 6.9666 BTC [+] {2}	[11:56]
*	shovel_boss (~shovel_bo@unaffiliated/shovel-boss/x-4881665) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:04]
copypaste	i wish there were a statically compiled eulora without all these dependencies	[12:07]
thestringpuller	there's binaries copypaste	[12:08]
copypaste	i keep trying on and off to take MP's invitation to play, but i keep being dissuaded by the large effort required on my part :p	[12:08]
thestringpuller	that's understandable. it's like playing dwarf fortress for the first time I 'spose	[12:08]
copypaste	quite	[12:09]
thestringpuller	i'm waiting for combat/dungeon crawling before I start to get heavily invested.	[12:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00050414 = 6.6042 BTC [-] {2}	[12:12]
mircea_popescu	what are you trying to run it on ?	[12:13]
copypaste	arch linux x86_64, and shitty pinoy internet to boot	[12:16]
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mircea_popescu	hm, did you try teh http://www.eulorum.org/Ubuntu stuff ? i dun recall if anyone ever tried it on arch specifically but by and large should work.	[12:18]
assbot	Ubuntu - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1D6vTgQ )	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	and spit out a usable binary within half an hour.	[12:18]
copypaste	i had some compiler error, i'll have to try again to bring it back up	[12:19]
copypaste	it was getting late so i just shut down and then got busy with other things	[12:19]
copypaste	as things go	[12:19]
copypaste	i only remembered as i was sorting my inbox and saw the invitation again	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	aha. there's a buncha people that can prolly halp if you get a specific error.	[12:19]
jurov	wywialm failed on problems to find corrswtionding arch packages	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	oh ?	[12:20]
jurov	so if you get further, you can at least publish them	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	s/corrswtionding/corresponding ?	[12:20]
jurov	corrswtionding -> corresponding	[12:20]
copypaste	perhaps i could even make a PKGBUILD if i get it to work, if it pleases you guys	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	at least if we have some names we can bitch at arch ppl specifically.	[12:20]
copypaste	i have a few PKGBUILDs in the AUR	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	if you do you prolly get some game goodies at any rate.	[12:20]
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jurov	copypaste: and do paste the compiler log (whole if possible).	[12:21]
mircea_popescu	one of the most encouraging things about eulora's economy that i see myself is - i keep a running total of player cash and of player assets. and the latter has been a monotonously increasing function ever since forever. the appetite for materials seems outright insatiable.	[12:22]
mircea_popescu	and in fact from the micro perspective i dun recall anything being offered for sale and not selling, yet.	[12:23]
copypaste	i very much love the concept of a 3d game with a bitcoin economy. i've played a few, but all poorly done.	[12:24]
copypaste	made by derps for derps	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	well the gfx here aren't too advanced,	[12:24]
copypaste	i mean poorly done in the community sense, in the conomy sense, in the sense of rules	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	but if you read the #eulora log.... ( http://logs.minigame.bz )	[12:24]
assbot	#Eulora Log ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGh0Gz )	[12:24]
mircea_popescu	i honestly believe it's the best done game, as far as the underlying "rules" go. owner delusion or not.	[12:25]
mircea_popescu	considering it's been played for nigh on a year and people don't even know wtf those rules even are...	[12:25]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: this insatiable need for materials will only increase when people start killing things and going to war etc.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	possibru	[12:26]
thestringpuller	reminds me distinctly of star wars galaxies before Sony ruined the game.	[12:26]
mircea_popescu	of course, no major player quit yet. that's usually a principal source of excess goods	[12:26]
thestringpuller	cause "consumer has come to expect" but I don't think consumers will be problem for eulora	[12:26]
thestringpuller	but in essence eulora is more than a game, and more of a living world that people virtually inhabit	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	not so far. ironically... if you go by a timeplay metric, december saw 64722 player-hours, which is seriously more than what MOST games see.	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, usual graphics intensive "AAA" title has what, 50 hours in it ? if not 30.	[12:28]
thestringpuller	the time sinks in those games are relative unfortunately because it's more effective to leave player wanting more, thus AAA publisher forces studio to make another game	[12:29]
thestringpuller	diminishing returns can get really dull after say 80 hours into a game with only 50 hours of story	[12:30]
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mircea_popescu	tru	[12:32]
deedbot-	[Trilema] What to do when spammers spam you ? Why... offer them work, of course! Capitalism saves lives. Touch the screen now! Heal! - http://trilema.com/2016/what-to-do-when-spammers-spam-you-why-offer-them-work-of-course-capitalism-saves-lives-touch-the-screen-now-heal/	[12:32]
thestringpuller	as a side note, I know a player with 300 days of playtime on FFXI. Although it's been out since 2002-2003ish	[12:33]
thestringpuller	(300 24 hours intervals)	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 300 * 24 * 3600	[12:33]
gribble	25920000	[12:33]
mircea_popescu	well... nobody in eulora there yet.	[12:34]
thestringpuller	Eulora will grow as it needs to. It's impressive.	[12:34]
thestringpuller	WoW killed the MMO, Eulora will rebirth it.	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	hopefully.	[12:35]
mircea_popescu	eulora record is actually a guy with 13919282 connecterd time.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	not gonna say who, other than it's not even me!	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	fucking unfair.	[12:36]
thestringpuller	that's impressive	[12:36]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the first accounts are from early june, so "nigh on a year" ain' really fair. half year.	[12:37]
danielpbarron	probably me	[12:39]
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jurov	what does DNS-replacement-by-v need to be done? just take your /etc/hosts, sign and publish, no?	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	but yeah, i did notice it tends to suck people in. not everyone, but some people.	[12:39]
thestringpuller	!up PeterL	[12:39]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[12:39]
mircea_popescu	jurov im thinking more like a rotor script to build a local hosts out of, maybe, deedbotted things ?	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	on the base of sigils etc.	[12:40]
thestringpuller	Eulora has deep gameplay, which creates emergent phenomenon which is by design. The real interesting thing is mircea_popescu has figured out how to do this without spending a million a dollars.	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	user can run it periodically.	[12:40]
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thestringpuller	!up ascii_butugychag	[12:40]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[12:40]
PeterL	BingoBoingo, My current lab is not set up to handle anything as dangerous as FOOF, would need a few kBTC to get something like that set up	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller the thing is, the meta-game is incredibly rich and very rewarding. usually the problem with making a game, as an enthusiast, is that fucking hell you know it so it's at best half as fun.	[12:41]
jurov	what's a sigil?	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	but because of the metagame this doesn't actually hold here. much to my satisfaction.	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	jurov concept from v, it keeps a sigil directory.	[12:41]
jurov	are these concepts, like, documented anywhere?	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	but he has a point, mod6 and ascii_butugychag : we should prolly document v.	[12:42]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366374 << much as mircea_popescu dislikes 'must x before y!1111' affairs, this really oughta run on gossipd.	[12:42]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 15:37:56; mircea_popescu: jurov im thinking more like a rotor script to build a local hosts out of, maybe, deedbotted things ?	[12:42]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag it oughta, but it can run without it too, and it's seemingly easy enough to get started.	[12:42]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v	[12:42]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: can, but with a great deal of manual sweat	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	the advantage of prototyping is that most major issues you will spend time working on, you encounter AFTER you're done designing.	[12:43]
ascii_butugychag	does anyone actually need ~more~ sweat on his box ?	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	what's the great deal ?	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	either cron the updater or run it whenever you please.	[12:43]
ascii_butugychag	how does updater know where to connect ?	[12:44]
mircea_popescu	how does v currently know where to connect to build the rotor ?	[12:44]
ascii_butugychag	my v connects nowhere	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	not the question.	[12:45]
ascii_butugychag	100% filesystem-based	[12:45]
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PeterL	so point the updater using a file	[12:46]
ascii_butugychag	i'm just not personally convinced that names gotta be automatic	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	nobody said they gotta be ?	[12:46]
ascii_butugychag	well it is implicit in the reference to zooko's triangle	[12:47]
thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag ben_vulpes mod6 : is there a way to look at what data messages/control messages are going over the wire or force their invocation in trb? or would that functionality need to be patched in to print to log/accept command from some source?	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	the reference was to explain to copypaste why he can't have both worlds / what the use of current dns arrangement is.	[12:48]
ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: 'wireshark' (read-only)	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	if i had to bruteforce sha256 to come up with the signature for "trilema.com" i probably wouldn't bother.	[12:48]
thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag: thx. that's what I was thinking. will do.	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	and it would definitely cost more than 10 bux.	[12:49]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i was always ok with '6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 likes to call himself mircea_popescu so why not'	[12:49]
ascii_butugychag	the whole 'memorable centralized names' thing is inherently statal.	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	sure. but i do notice he never registered 6F12EC72A82ABCA35235063A10DDC983901AA183.co	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	(incidentally - if anyone here remembers the ancient discussion re naming services, which is how qntra ended up with that name at least in part - this system would be a necessarily optimal solution to that problem. it'd guarantee you need the minimum possible stroke count to get your desired destination.	[12:51]
ascii_butugychag	he probably also never drove a cart hitched to a pack of stray dogs	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	it'd also guarantee you wouldn't recognize it, but hey.)	[12:51]
ascii_butugychag	i see names as necessarily a local (machine) matter.	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag and there's no argument considered or offered that it's not statal. the discussion is that under some circumstances it is advantageous.	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	iirc i even said - what that guy complains of, we'd also do.	[12:52]
ascii_butugychag	aha i just got off a city train, likewise inherently statal, and advantageous	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[12:52]
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ascii_butugychag	incidentally there was a ragged black fella preaching about 9/11 inside job	[12:52]
ascii_butugychag	and usg spreading aids, chemtrails, etc.	[12:53]
ascii_butugychag	enjoyed a good hour of this	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	but he wasn't the conductor.	[12:53]
ascii_butugychag	no conductor	[12:53]
ascii_butugychag	'don't believe me?!! look what's happening to yer greenbacks!!!111'	[12:54]
ascii_butugychag	-- direct quote	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	"Million Mask March: Many younger sovereigns are fascinated with ideas of a youth revolution, anarchy, and hacktivism (a portmanteau of hack and activism,) even though the majority of them are not particularly computer savvy. They often call themselves Anonymous and wear the mask and costume of the central character in the movie V for Vendetta."	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	this is pretty lulzy.	[12:54]
ascii_butugychag	^ old nyooz ?	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[12:54]
copypaste	Anonymous are (rightfully) viewed as losers, or USG themselves, by most thinking people	[12:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29811 @ 0.00050889 = 15.1705 BTC [+] {3}	[12:55]
ascii_butugychag	cult film, what canyoudo	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	"A few take it one step further by initiating violence in hopes of acting as a catalyst for this war. Timothy McVeigh’s goals, for example, weren’t just to murder 168 people, bring down a symbolic building, and punish the government for its role in the standoffs at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He wanted to make his mark in history by providing the Patriot movement with the spark that would light the fires of revolution.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	Ironically, the Sovereign movement is made up of highly paranoid people who tend to believe that every violent act in recent history is a “false flag” operation set in motion by the evil government, so the odds of such an event triggering a Revolution are quite slim."	[12:55]
shinohai	Anons lel	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	lulzy.	[12:55]
ascii_butugychag	where was this	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	earlier linked piece, random derpage. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366176	[12:57]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 12:44:25; punkman: http://www.deathandtaxes.com/antigovviolence.pdf	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	sovereigns ?!!	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, i finally got to the bottom of the shocking absence of anyone but caucasians from argentina (it is, literally, the whitest place on earth, up there with romania and i guess montana)	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	older folk explained it to me. back when they had their various wars, they confronted paraguayans at some point, and managed to sell the slaves on the theory that black men make the best warrirors for which reason they must take the first lines.	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	"y los paraguashos los mataron todos!"	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	i suspect that as the century-old (and probably more grounded) view of black people as naturally cowardly and militarily worthless gives way to this purely symbolic "black is the new manhood", extermination approaches.	[13:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26650 @ 0.00050953 = 13.579 BTC [+]	[13:02]
ascii_butugychag	aha, only black fella i saw in b-a was a pilot	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	some limited immigration was permitted of ex spanish african colonies	[13:03]
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mircea_popescu	but it mostly provides street vendors, and i'd be surprised if it makes up that many ppm.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	!up indiancandy1	[13:03]
-assbot-	You voiced indiancandy1 for 30 minutes.	[13:03]
*	assbot gives voice to indiancandy1	[13:03]
indiancandy1	HEY GANG	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	bang!	[13:04]
mod6	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366283 << this is an interesting idea.	[13:08]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 14:13:52; mircea_popescu: lettuce see what trinque ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov kakobrekla & co say when they wakeup	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	mod6 what'd be your definition/specificiation for the concept of sigil ?	[13:09]
mod6	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366390 << I do have a usage guide and quick-start guide... but maybe more of whats needed is not a reference manual, but an overall concept paper.	[13:09]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 15:40:42; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	so that people can correctly develop on top of a shared core	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	rather than you know... mess.	[13:09]
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ascii_butugychag	a sigil is a tuple of a seal & the thing-sealed.	[13:10]
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shinohai	!up ascii_butugychag	[13:11]
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mircea_popescu	i thought sigil was the name of keys in v.	[13:12]
ascii_butugychag	possibly	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	i dun think i named them	[13:13]
mircea_popescu	right.	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	but this is a good one.	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	let's	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366191 << complicated. v is deliberately unusable with 'fuzzy' flow	[13:13]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 13:19:15; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366041 << more importantly, it's not clear to me portage is even useful anymore. since v i mean.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	so atm, as a working theory : the correct working of the nosuchdns script would be a) look in sigils directory and build list of sigils ; b) look in repository (where ?) for what's signed by the sigils ; c) create a sort -u list of the aformenentioned and dump it in hosts as > ratrher thjan >> ?	[13:14]
ascii_butugychag	(e.g., you don't know EXACTLY bitwise what you want at a step)	[13:14]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 what'd be your definition/specificiation for the concept of sigil ? << by definition, for me its a cryptographic signature (embossment) of a given input.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	mod6 so then what's a seal ?	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	do sigils produce seals or do seals produce sigils.	[13:14]
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ascii_butugychag	let's sigils produce seals!	[13:14]
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ascii_butugychag	this is the proper meaning.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	i thought so too.	[13:15]
mod6	ah, to me that's what i took 'sigil' to mean, 'a seal'. I may misunderstand the language.	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	sigil =~= rsa modulus	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	seal ~= rsa modular exponentiant.	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	(at least for now, at some point folks might start using lattice or even, fuck, lamport signatures)	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	maybe in 2017.	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	(for n00bz: lamport signature is to signing approx. what otp is to encipherment)	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	rather approx.	[13:19]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag what about this fuzzy flow ?	[13:20]
ascii_butugychag	approx same pain	[13:20]
ascii_butugychag	but less gain.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	huh ?	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	oh oh. yeah, re lamport.	[13:20]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: as for 'portage', think about it	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	i am.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	do tell ?	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	the port tree does not specify the exact hash of executable built at each point	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	because nobody has a deterministic builder	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	this simply means the port tree is curreently empty	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	and will have to be filled.	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	it had, iirc, some (spotty) support for pgp	[13:21]
ascii_butugychag	but nothing that would add up to sanity	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	"smart people disagree because they do not share priors ; idiots disagree because they can't follow implications"	[13:22]
ascii_butugychag	first need deterministic buildatron.	[13:22]
ascii_butugychag	unfortunately this is not negotiable	[13:22]
ascii_butugychag	gotta have this x before you can even think about y-ing.	[13:22]
ascii_butugychag	and deterministic in the ~bitwise~ sense.	[13:23]
ascii_butugychag	as in, i build on nintendo, mircea_popescu on cray, we get same elf output so long as we asked for same target and used same src.	[13:23]
ascii_butugychag	all of the idiot indeterminate hiss on current boxes will have to go.	[13:24]
ascii_butugychag	(recall when we diffed rotor builds ??)	[13:25]
trinque	ascii_butugychag: what did you think of my simply checking the hash at the end of a build target?	[13:26]
trinque	did it for downloads; trivial to do for a produced binary as well	[13:26]
ascii_butugychag	as i said,	[13:26]
ascii_butugychag	no, not trivial.	[13:26]
ascii_butugychag	because gcc is full of shit	[13:26]
ascii_butugychag	it shits out system-specific crud into the build.	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	try it.	[13:27]
trinque	sure, trivial to check is all	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	CHECK is useless	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	needs to DIE	[13:27]
trinque	mkay, how are you going to get gcc shitting consistently then?	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	for so long as the crud gets put there, you don't have deterministic build	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	you 1) patch gcc	[13:27]
trinque	sure, I don't disagree	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	2) make sure src is EXACTLY SAME on all boxes.	[13:27]
ascii_butugychag	not same binary? won't hash correctly, flow graph cannot proceed.	[13:28]
*	trinque slaps his forehead	[13:28]
trinque	yes, having a make target fail when a hash fails is a good idea	[13:28]
ascii_butugychag	you can think of this idea as a more fascist version of 'make'	[13:28]
trinque	my makefiles do that	[13:28]
trinque	moves the built target out of the way if it fails	[13:29]
trinque	was easy	[13:29]
ascii_butugychag	presently, 'make' only cares that a particular file name comes to exist	[13:29]
trinque	read teh verify.mk include, does precisely what you're saying	[13:29]
trinque	"CHECK_OR_DIE"	[13:29]
ascii_butugychag	but i was discussing a hypothetical v-tronic variant of 'portage'	[13:29]
trinque	yep, would that not be a tree of v-patches on a tree of makefiles?	[13:30]
ascii_butugychag	the thing to understand is that we are doing something quite analogous to the invention of... SANITATION.	[13:30]
trinque	could reinvent the makefile like "ebuild" or w/e, still a makefile	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	"CHECK_OR_DIE" << word.	[13:32]
*	mircea_popescu liked that	[13:32]
*	assbot removes voice from indiancandy1	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	"By the end of April, the couple was completely broke, unemployed, and effectively exiled from a community they had given up everything to join. Jerad reached out to some of the other local voices in the movement, but found that most such activists were big on words, minimal on action, and did little more than post anti-government pictures and rants on the Internet."	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	am i the only one who sees this eerily reminiscent of "bitcoin nodes" situation ?	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	wai wut	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	the pestilence of faux nodez?	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	yup	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	until and unless you ban the blooming idiots, your copshootings take forever to propagate	[13:35]
ascii_butugychag	speaking of which - anybody else try my malleus mikehearnificarum ?	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	once you do, it's simultaneous.	[13:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00050992 = 1.8357 BTC [+] {2}	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	“This cop needs to be shot and then displayed for all others to see. Time to let these Nazi thugs who really runs the show here in this country. We need to string all of them up and make an example for the next generation that these acts will not be tolerated. They answer to us, not the other way around. Time we start asking the hard questions and lay the hammer down on those who truly deserve it.” Jerad Miller, M	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	ay 7, 2014	[13:37]
copypaste	where does this quote come from?	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	this 31 yo guy who together with his 22 yo wife shot a coupla cops and then got killed.	[13:39]
copypaste	ah, i meant the first one, my client was scrolled up	[13:39]
copypaste	By the end of April...	[13:39]
*	ascii_butugychag has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[13:40]
*	ascii_butugychag (a211d01a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.17.208.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	http://www.deathandtaxes.com/?p=58	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	some obscure usg outlet.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	"Examples of recent activity	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	September 9, 2014 – Eric Frein, an anti-government survivalist, is currently a fugitive wanted for shooting two Pennsylvania State troopers in an ambush, killing one and wounding the other. According to the State Police Commissioner, Frein had talked about committing mass murder in addition to killing officers. He was recently added to the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted list. General Anti-government	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	August 12, 2014 — Armed with an AK-47, ammunition, and propane canisters, Douglas Lee Leguin set a fire, then called 911 to report it. When Texas officers and firemen responded to the call, he shot at them in order to bring attention to his political complaints. Sovereign Citizen"	[13:42]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366180 << Oh no jurov, the people are addicted to NOT having sugar.	[13:42]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 13:12:42; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2016#1364932 They will laugh at you back with your cravings of sugar.	[13:42]
*	shinohai has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	ironically... i believe if one were to add up the number of usg agent deaths as evident from prosecution attempts, and then compare that figure with the number of usg agent deaths as reported by the usg for various statistical purposes, a 10:1 difference wouldn't even be surprising.	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8441 @ 0.00050414 = 4.2554 BTC [-] {2}	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[13:44]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[13:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[13:44]
ascii_butugychag	re: earlier thread: for historian types such as pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922643 << my original source for concept in 'v'	[13:44]
assbot	Logged on 15-11-2014 00:27:45; asciilifeform: there was a three-man system	[13:44]
*	tripleslash has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	will come in handy once we actually have / can afford three men working on any one thing.	[13:45]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366550 << this could almost literally be a quote from that fella on the train this morning	[13:45]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 16:35:36; mircea_popescu: “This cop needs to be shot and then displayed for all others to see. Time to let these Nazi thugs who really runs the show here in this country. We need to string all of them up and make an example for the next generation that these acts will not be tolerated. They answer to us, not the other way around. Time we start asking the hard questions and lay the hammer down on those who trul	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag or, for that matter, from me.	[13:46]
ascii_butugychag	the emphasis on local police is intensely usgtronic, however.	[13:48]
ascii_butugychag	!s gendarmerie	[13:48]
assbot	28 results for 'gendarmerie' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gendarmerie	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	not so. you're wrong in this reading, and the usg itself very clearly proves they understand this (for instance in their attempts to hide behind the tired local sheriff dioscussed on qntra)	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	it would be a forced mistake for this gendarmerie to appear. and forced it must be.	[13:49]
ascii_butugychag	local police are all that presently stand between average u.s. pgp user and a dhs torture chamber.	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	i do not believe so.	[13:49]
ascii_butugychag	(in the aggregate, rather than the particular.)	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	local police is what currently stand between random acts of violence and the us president being raped on camera.	[13:49]
ascii_butugychag	consider brazil.	[13:49]
mircea_popescu	and while i have no particular taste for violence, i do wish to see obama, or his successor, raped on camera.	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	what of brazil ?	[13:50]
ascii_butugychag	chaos in the precincts, no presidential rape on camera ?	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	orly.	[13:50]
ascii_butugychag	afaik.	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	we don't agree on this point.	[13:50]
ascii_butugychag	which? the chaos? or br still having an unraped pres	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	i don't agree that brazil works as an example for your purpose.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	but be that as it may : as the oathkeepers article derrided here yest nevertheless correctly points out: other people's problems,. to be resolved by those self-same other people.	[13:52]
ascii_butugychag	how else.	[13:52]
BingoBoingo	PeterL: I guess it can wait. I just like how somethign so cool has such an onomatapeia	[13:52]
ascii_butugychag	not by martians, no.	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	and mexico makes for a much better example, in that direction.	[13:53]
ascii_butugychag	how's that	[13:54]
BingoBoingo	!up PeterL	[13:54]
*	assbot gives voice to PeterL	[13:54]
PeterL	BingoBoingo, I don't particularly want to go FOOF myself	[13:54]
PeterL	seems like a nasty chemical to work with	[13:54]
BingoBoingo	Ah, I see	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag numerous examples of pretorian guard heads that thought going with the usg is safe beheaded.	[13:55]
ascii_butugychag	by the next usg stooge, aha	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[13:55]
ascii_butugychag	re: malleus thread: did mircea_popescu ever write an article about the error of 'postel's law' ?	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	and i specifically discuss the president rather than the "mayor of the palace" because really, having dagobert cut to pieces in the public place is a worse stigma on the obnoxious pepin than actually shortening him a head more would have been.	[13:57]
ascii_butugychag	after the successful test of malleus h., i've been tempted to write one	[13:57]
ascii_butugychag	looked for old work, found only this - http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1999945	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	please do. if i did it'd be fragmentary and so on	[13:57]
assbot	The Robustness Principle Reconsidered - ACM Queue ... ( http://bit.ly/1Zgq3ig )	[13:57]
PeterL	I have had a reactor make a foof sound as it lit fire, not a pleasant experience (and that was just a simple combustion of THF, nothing explosive)	[13:57]
ascii_butugychag	for n00bz, 'postel's law' went something like 'be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept.'	[13:58]
ascii_butugychag	it has the smell of good engineering and thereby became enshrined in the old canon	[13:59]
ascii_butugychag	but leads to tremendous ecological catastrophe	[14:00]
ascii_butugychag	(in the genuine sense of the word)	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	write the article. i'll read, and if need comment!	[14:00]
BingoBoingo	PeterL: Well, maybe this is a job for the indians or Chicoms	[14:02]
ascii_butugychag	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=37 << related	[14:02]
ascii_butugychag	specifically y. kreinin's text,	[14:03]
ascii_butugychag	'How many problems did you have with hardware compared to OS compared to end-user apps? According to most evidence I got, JavaScript does whatever the hell it wants at each browser. Hardware is not like that. CPUs from the same breed will run the user-level instructions identically or get off the market. Memory-mapped devices following a hardware protocol for talking to the bus will actually follow it, damn it, or ge	[14:03]
ascii_butugychag	'Low-level things are likely to work correctly since there’s tremendous pressure for them to do so. Because otherwise, all the higher-level stuff will collapse, and everybody will go “AAAAAAAAAA!!”'	[14:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5277 @ 0.00051018 = 2.6922 BTC [+] {2}	[14:04]
ascii_butugychag	the few precious things that ACTUALLY WORK, consistently, every time - your cpu's adder, the bus, etc. SHIT on postel.	[14:04]
ascii_butugychag	by being ~extremely~ tight, and, importantly, well-specified, in what input they accept.	[14:05]
PeterL	garbag in, garbage out	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	your definition of "actually work" is different from HIS definition of "Actually work".	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	consider unpnp, it is the best example.	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	does bitcoin "actually work" with or without it ?	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	there was a time when alu worked the way upnp 'works'	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	know when?	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	when 'computer' was a... job description	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	and gurlz sat with abacus	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	gurl hung over? wrong numbers come out	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	and an important thing to point out is also the b-a model.	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	which is how babbage got his gig	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	#b-a is EXTREMELY liberal in what it accepts, and extremely conservative in who it accepts it from.	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	this happens to be how sexuate reproduction works, also, which makes me suspect it's a peak behaviour.	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	this works for knights of the round table, but not so much for menial mechanics	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	and you know this how and wherefore.	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	cunt is mechanics.	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	!s cunt runs on perl	[14:07]
assbot	0 results for 'cunt runs on perl' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cunt+runs+on+perl	[14:07]
ascii_butugychag	'assembly line with phds'	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	he BULLSHIT	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag nope. there isn't a person in every cunt, yet they all work.	[14:07]
ascii_butugychag	depends what means 'work'	[14:08]
ascii_butugychag	produce shaved apes fairly reliably, sure	[14:08]
ascii_butugychag	and the abacus gurlz produced... numbers!111 reliably.	[14:08]
ascii_butugychag	just not necessarily the ones you want.	[14:08]
ascii_butugychag	that's the whole notion of a mechanism - that it does something quite specific, in a quite-specific way, that is defined in advance	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	this looks to me like a large cave, actually.	[14:09]
ascii_butugychag	hm?	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	!rate copypaste 1 HotWheels / 8chan guy	[14:10]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a51bc4c939860f84	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.copypaste.1:900d82e7c59245e329102c53b146c1d58cddb571df4cc512b93fdab831b55a4a	[14:11]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for copypaste with note: HotWheels / 8chan guy	[14:11]
copypaste	thought you guys might get a kick out of this. i'm reading a highly contested law where i live (philippines)	[14:11]
copypaste	this is part of it	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag this thing, that we were discussing. seems to me to make the echo sounds typical of a huge cave, even if we only found a little hole.	[14:11]
copypaste	https://imgur.com/gB9G2Oz	[14:11]
assbot	Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZnAm9A )	[14:11]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: dan mocsny had a spiffy essay on man and mechanism in this sense, but afaik it is lost to history	[14:11]
ascii_butugychag	(google nuked it)	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	copypaste dpaste al;ways better for text. and do you kno what deedbot is ?	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag heh.	[14:12]
copypaste	it's a PDF, and it was made by Pinoys, so of course it doesn't copy right	[14:12]
copypaste	that's what i tried first, but it got all misformatted	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	pdf must die already omfg.	[14:13]
ascii_butugychag	mocsny had examples, e.g., man takes 'viagra', turning cock into a mechanism, in the sense that you walk into a forest and are not content to sit on ~any~ old surface, if you are there long enough you start making chairs, polishing the wood, etc	[14:13]
ascii_butugychag	mechanisms.	[14:13]
ascii_butugychag	rather than natural crud as-found.	[14:13]
copypaste	mircea_popescu: here's how Okular (KDE PDF client) interpreted it: http://dpaste.com/1GY12RN	[14:13]
assbot	dpaste: 1GY12RN ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZgscKL )	[14:13]
copypaste	i have no idea how they managed that.	[14:13]
ascii_butugychag	pdf can die when i can type in integral sign and not have it EVER pagebroken.	[14:14]
ascii_butugychag	then and not before.	[14:14]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[14:14]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> pdf must die already omfg. << yes.	[14:14]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:16]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:16]
ascii_butugychag	i have yet to see a pill against pdf proposed here that doesn't reduce to mircea_popescu's broomstick.	[14:17]
*	indiancandy1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[14:18]
ascii_butugychag	i own a printer. and i intend to keep owning a printer. i like paper. and i don't ever want to see a motherfucking pagebreak in the middle of an equation.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag what "page"	[14:18]
ascii_butugychag	page.	[14:18]
ascii_butugychag	of dead wood.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	eh quit smoking.	[14:18]
mircea_popescu	it's good for the environment and ok for you.	[14:18]
ascii_butugychag	eh make me a 1200 dpi screen then	[14:19]
ascii_butugychag	and i'll begin to think about it	[14:19]
copypaste	e-ink eschews the need for real paper	[14:19]
ascii_butugychag	copypaste: tops out at 300 dpi or so	[14:19]
ascii_butugychag	and no colour.	[14:19]
mod6	i like ascii txt	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	mkay, do what i did back before i had a dirigible :	[14:20]
*	ascii_butugychag has owned possibly every e-ink toy on the market	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	have your dad steal some fucking listing paper already!	[14:20]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i own a gigantic crate	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	this "page" nonsense is related to written matter like excel spreadsheets are related to business	[14:20]
ascii_butugychag	but matrix printer tops out at 100 or so dpi.	[14:20]
ascii_butugychag	and looks like shit	[14:20]
mircea_popescu	keep your stuff as rolls like god & newton intended	[14:20]
ascii_butugychag	y'know, rolls still have a horizontal width.	[14:22]
ascii_butugychag	that is fixed.	[14:22]
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trinque	CSS has a "don't pagebreak this when printed"	[14:23]
ascii_butugychag	and if 'this' exceeds the pixel count of the page ?	[14:23]
ascii_butugychag	ever read knuth's tex book ?	[14:24]
ascii_butugychag	or at least understand why tex is complicated ?	[14:24]
*	assbot removes voice from PeterL	[14:24]
trinque	you're asking if it can scale things down to fit the page?	[14:24]
trinque	no, I have not read a book on tex	[14:24]
copypaste	CSS has many rules, what matters is how they're implemented.	[14:25]
copypaste	still exists - in theory.	[14:25]
trinque	page-break-inside has pretty wide support	[14:25]
ascii_butugychag	scaling down pixelwise is idiocy if it results in an equation where i cannot read the sub- and superscripts, say.	[14:25]
trinque	so we use our brains and wrap whatever you don't want broken in a box with the above CSS	[14:26]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: i have yet to see even a sane implementation of, e.g., mathml.	[14:26]
*	trinque is merely making the humble claim that HTML > PDF	[14:26]
ascii_butugychag	and i am NOT interested in equations-as-bitmaps!	[14:26]
ascii_butugychag	because that is idiocy	[14:26]
ascii_butugychag	gotta be searchable, cut&pastable, etc.	[14:26]
ascii_butugychag	first-class citizens.	[14:27]
trinque	reasonable.	[14:27]
ascii_butugychag	and presently only achieved in pdf.	[14:27]
ascii_butugychag	(or rather, postscript, pdf is merely ps rebranded)	[14:27]
ascii_butugychag	ps is a 1980s thing, and was invented for perfectly valid reasons, the malicious bugginess of crapobat etc. are not inherent in it.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	!up Guest72952	[14:28]
-assbot-	You voiced Guest72952 for 30 minutes.	[14:28]
*	assbot gives voice to Guest72952	[14:28]
Guest72952	dude	[14:28]
Guest72952	ur chatroom robbed my name	[14:28]
Guest72952	im hurt	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	what name ?	[14:28]
Guest72952	i went to eat	[14:28]
Guest72952	indiancandy1	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	still exists - in theory. << in practice. even used on trilema.	[14:29]
copypaste	no, just in theory. all the widely used implementations have dropped it, at least by default	[14:29]
ascii_butugychag	does anyone recall emma goldman's famous words re: dancing & the revolution?	[14:29]
copypaste	probably exists on trilema, but nobody notices it, more than likely	[14:29]
copypaste	except the odd reader using IE6 of course!	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	and presently only achieved in pdf. << have you lost it, man ?! what of pdf is searchable, cut/paster able etc ?	[14:29]
ascii_butugychag	'if i cannot dance, i want nothing to do with your revolution'	[14:29]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: pdf crapped out by latex is all of these !	[14:30]
ascii_butugychag	it is ~allowed for~ by the format	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	not what we're discussing here!	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	would it please you if i said adobe must die ?	[14:30]
ascii_butugychag	yes.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	aite.	[14:30]
ascii_butugychag	but iirc mircea_popescu is allergic to the whole notion of vector graphics for-printer	[14:30]
ascii_butugychag	which always struck me as quite broomsticky	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	i'm allergic at the notion of being fed it. i'm niot a printer.	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	just like i'm not interested in binary blob "signed" text.	[14:31]
ascii_butugychag	be fed baudot over smoke signal if you go in for that	[14:31]
ascii_butugychag	everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it	[14:32]
trinque	how bout math in ascii sexps?	[14:32]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: again, rendered how	[14:32]
trinque	plain text	[14:32]
ascii_butugychag	i'm all for latex-like animal in sexp representation	[14:32]
ascii_butugychag	but i have no interest in READING it with naked eye!!	[14:33]
trinque	no, why the insane notation at all	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	quick test : does http://trilema.com/2015/sa-muare-haterii-mei-doi/#selection-83.0-83.6 blink for anyone but me ?	[14:33]
assbot	Sa muare haterii mei (doi) on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZguysY )	[14:33]
trinque	wasn't the original purpose of the sexp this ?	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: absolutely motherfucking not	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	not even mccarthy wanted to LOOK at sexps with eyes!	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	how bout math in ascii sexps? << pretty much the only known solution to his problem	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	they were meant as an intermediate representation	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	it's of course "counterintuitive" to she-brains	[14:33]
trinque	wat	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	to be rendered by machine into a preferred form	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	yes	[14:33]
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ascii_butugychag	read 'lisp-1' paper.	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	!up ozymandias_	[14:33]
-assbot-	You voiced ozymandias_ for 30 minutes.	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	by john m.	[14:33]
*	assbot gives voice to ozymandias_	[14:33]
ozymandias_	If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	why can;t you dance ?	[14:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00050698 = 16.1727 BTC [-]	[14:34]
mircea_popescu	everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it << one. ONE.	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	there shall not be any more. and sure as fuck not infinity.	[14:35]
mircea_popescu	there may be exactly one.	[14:35]
ascii_butugychag	if i can't read, say, http://www.complexity.ethz.ch/education/Lectures/ComplexityHS10/ScriptChapterTwelve WITHOUT ANY degradation in quality, searchability, without superfluous page breaks or line breaks, 'can't dance'	[14:35]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ZguQjK )	[14:35]
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mircea_popescu	you can't dance anyway. i was asking the ozy nboob	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: mno. you are, for instance, using irc client, which is not same as telnet, isn't showing you (or making you manually type in) the PING and PONG, say	[14:36]
mircea_popescu	hey ascii_butugychag are those graphs pngs ? hm ? HM ?	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	so there is sure as hell more than one renderer.	[14:36]
mircea_popescu	you lose.	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: whatcha talking about, the text is selectable	[14:37]
ascii_butugychag	in those graphs.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	the text is, yes.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	BUT THE GRAPHS THEMSELVES	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	are not.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	i see no indication as to how the arrows go.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	suppose i want the circles filled in red. what now ?	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	how do i SEARCH for "arrow pointing like this" ? hm ?	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	learn to alphabet already, ya buncha "visual thinker" illiterate louts!	[14:38]
ascii_butugychag	i agree, whole thing oughta be a sexpr underneath	[14:38]
ascii_butugychag	where you ~could~ search for 'red arrows' etc	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[14:38]
ascii_butugychag	but UNDERNEATH.	[14:38]
ascii_butugychag	'i wanna hug a gurl not a set of loose guts'	[14:38]
trinque	why is sexp such a good representation for programming but not math	[14:39]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: it is a good representation for directly manipulating ast	[14:39]
ascii_butugychag	this is rather like asking why a heap of guts is the correct interface for a surgeon but not a lover !	[14:39]
trinque	that statement does not make any argument for why the seemingly arbitrary syntax of mathematics is good	[14:40]
ascii_butugychag	for ~authoring~ maths - absolutely, gimme sexpr.	[14:40]
trinque	and applies as easily to C++ or any other hell	[14:40]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: because it is compact.	[14:40]
ascii_butugychag	and i don't always like the notation.;	[14:40]
ascii_butugychag	but a 1 line equation beats two pages of ascii crud.	[14:41]
*	assbot gives voice to guruvan	[14:41]
guruvan	what's going on guise?	[14:41]
trinque	ascii_butugychag: there is python (or cursed rubby) which is "more compact" like your equation, yet I prefer lisp	[14:42]
trinque	why?	[14:42]
ascii_butugychag	and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every time !111	[14:42]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: compact at a price	[14:43]
trinque	this is why urbit did those glyphs or whatever they called them	[14:43]
trinque	why write "if" when you can ?!? or w/e	[14:43]
ascii_butugychag	now that's garbage.	[14:43]
ascii_butugychag	just like perl is.	[14:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00050414 = 20.9974 BTC [-]	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	nothing much guruvan, some tweet of yours got linked	[14:44]
ascii_butugychag	people who ~live and die~ by motherfucking compact equations, ALWAYS invent hieroglyphs	[14:44]
guruvan	saw that - can hadly believe it's been so long since I've been in here	[14:44]
ascii_butugychag	just like mechanic buys a hammer and NOT a brick.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	just like everyone tickles the woman in random way in private. this is math porn what you're proposing.	[14:45]
guruvan	I see you guys still remember how bitcoin works :)	[14:46]
ascii_butugychag	find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this.	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	possibly the only group left. there's been some sort of strange deluge or something.	[14:46]
ascii_butugychag	who wants to use motherfucking words	[14:46]
ascii_butugychag	as if it were euclid's greece	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	hey, euclid's greece did alright.	[14:46]
ascii_butugychag	mno.	[14:46]
ascii_butugychag	that tower only gets so-high.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	find me actual working programmers that want to use static linked binaries. like it were 1970s MIT!	[14:47]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[14:47]
trinque	still no reason put why using words and sexps is a good thing in programming, a bad thing in mathematics	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:47]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[14:47]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	"that tower only gets so high!"	[14:47]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: a good and necessary thing in mathematics. but i don't want to view them with eyes!	[14:47]
trinque	give a reason! lol	[14:47]
ascii_butugychag	because 1-line equation can be 4 pages of sexp ???	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	let's make it plain : the forum language will be alphabetic, not hieroglyphic. how you paint the meaning from the letters into little icons in your own livingroom - your problem.	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	but i do not wish to see them, pray with them, and so following.	[14:48]
ascii_butugychag	then forum doesn't do maths.	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	the forum is whenever one talks to another publicly.	[14:49]
trinque	"because."	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	if you're not fucking, you're in the forum.	[14:49]
ascii_butugychag	and i notice that mircea_popescu links to bitmaps of gurlz, not homeric descriptions in 10,000 words...	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	zing.	[14:50]
mod6	hawtbutts.txt	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	quick test : does http://trilema.com/2015/sa-muare-haterii-mei-doi/#selection-83.0-83.6 blink for anyone but me ? << lemme reiterate	[14:50]
assbot	Sa muare haterii mei (doi) on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZguysY )	[14:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38569 @ 0.00050657 = 19.5379 BTC [+] {2}	[14:51]
trinque	if a guy were trying to understand the rationale behind using dense symbols in mathematics from this conversation, he would fail.	[14:51]
BingoBoingo	Assorted things https://archive.is/9bLoV	[14:54]
assbot	Butters now Supposed to run full nodes to use lite wallets : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1mQSQ0Y )	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	trinque yet the explanation is very simple : a certain set of brain circuitry is deeply involved in novel thought (about everything, including mathematics) and at the same time refractary to structure.	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	generally people trying to think in this particular sense try and dope it.	[14:54]
*	assbot removes voice from Guest72952	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	such as by using structureless or poorly structured "symbols".	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	this, obviously, is anathema to communication.	[14:59]
trinque	aha, seemed entirely psychological. "the mysterious symbols of the world of mathematics! greek letters even!"	[15:00]
mircea_popescu	it is also fundamentally why math "is hard". for every non-retarded young adult who believes math is hard you have a case of a child who developed his own, highly personal set of shitty symbols, and then never received a good explanation as to what the difference between his and "everyone else"'s is, so got lost.	[15:00]
mircea_popescu	because, obviously, the problem of translating between sets is untractable.	[15:00]
mircea_popescu	the problems people encounter with statistics are probably the most obvious place to study this issue.	[15:01]
BingoBoingo	Apparently social media is talking about asciilifeform's Malleum patch when they were largely afraid to discuss qntra on Oregon https://archive.is/f1p8H	[15:01]
assbot	Cyril Blanc on Twitter: "@MrChrisEllis @dnivi3 @PQMerkle https://t.co/HpD1xhTa3w" ... ( http://bit.ly/1mQUorP )	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo prolly a good time to link http://deedbot.org/deed-392674-1.txt	[15:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1mQUIqG )	[15:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00050414 = 1.6637 BTC [-] {2}	[15:05]
*	ascii_butugychag has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[15:05]
guruvan	BingoBoingo: classic - banning light clients is now censorship - I'll let who I like connect to my nodes tyvfm	[15:09]
BingoBoingo	Seriously, what part of "MINE!!!1111!!!" don't people understand. Fucking socialism.	[15:12]
*	Guest72952 has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[15:13]
BingoBoingo	Anyways guruvan I'm glad you stopped by. Keep coming back, it works when you work it.	[15:15]
phf	pdf is ~plaintext~ container format that lets you encode an hierarchical structure of nodes of type. there's a handful of standard node types geared towards fixed page layout. there's also a handful of types that let you embed content, i.e. inline a binary blob <>stream....10 bytes....endstream. latex produces pdfs with intimate awareness of the format's abilities, i.e. sensible plain text nodes that	[15:19]
phf	annotate visual layout nodes with semantically meaningful components (pages, paragraphs, etc.)	[15:19]
guruvan	thanks BingoBoingo - will be around more this year :) - it's gonna be a crazy year	[15:19]
*	ascii_butugychag (a211d01a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.17.208.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:19]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:20]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[15:20]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[15:20]
phf	but of course there's tons of companies that have some variation of "breakup my text into individual pictures of letters with precise x/y positioning, for extra points place the nodes in a random order so that tools like pdftotext barf"	[15:20]
BingoBoingo	guruvan: Seriously. Wasn't much to do in 2015 except lay groundwork for 2016	[15:20]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366851 << abuse is no argument. mechanic can bash in skull with wrench. does not follow that wrench ought to be soft.	[15:20]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 17:57:01; mircea_popescu: such as by using structureless or poorly structured "symbols".	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	and speaking of http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366820 what of http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=let+me+formalize+from%3Amircea ?	[15:21]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 17:44:07; ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this.	[15:21]
assbot	1 results for 'let me formalize from:mircea' - #bitcoin-assets search	[15:21]
ascii_butugychag	will take my maximally-compact notations from my cold, dead hands.	[15:21]
guruvan	agreed BingoBoingo - it was a long year of much work, and much that's just been tossed by the end of it too	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	what, do i not count ? is systems theory not math ?	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	i'll tell you that i do prefer spellking out "sum x over y for i to j" than squiggling it up. heck, i have the girls read out bash commands explaining what they do.	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	and etc.	[15:21]
ascii_butugychag	philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized)	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	and we come back to the same "bad math" problem :	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	this "notationed" math is ALSO not math that's been mechanised.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	it's just been shittified.	[15:22]
ascii_butugychag	and yes, e.g., maxwell's equations stated verbally might be more pleasing to a n00b	[15:22]
ascii_butugychag	but DEATH to somebody who needs to formally ~manipulate~ them.	[15:23]
ascii_butugychag	and needs to hold a MAXIMUM of thought from the page in his head	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	i never had a problem.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	as we speak i hold all the pages i hold anyway.	[15:23]
phf	presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a tool of thought" paper in principle	[15:24]
BingoBoingo	philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized) << Prolly hard to mechanize "Fear and Trembling"	[15:24]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu doesn't do mathematics, this is evident. perhaps he did at one point, but not now.	[15:24]
ascii_butugychag	what other notational element, i wonder, would he have us give up? matrix ?	[15:24]
ascii_butugychag	verbalize the elements?	[15:24]
ascii_butugychag	let's have verbal quaternion ?	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	which part of what i said dja actually disagree with ?	[15:25]
ascii_butugychag	the 'notation as obscurantist claptrap'	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	is this a symbol ?	[15:25]
ascii_butugychag	which this	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	'notation as obscurantist claptrap'	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	why not use पॢ, i wonder.	[15:27]
ascii_butugychag	because it saves no space/time.	[15:28]
ascii_butugychag	because we did not have any reason to agree on the hieroglyph.	[15:28]
BingoBoingo	https://charliehorse55.wordpress.com/2016/01/09/how-nvidia-breaks-chrome-incognito/	[15:28]
assbot	How Nvidia breaks Chrome Incognito \| charliehorse55 ... ( http://bit.ly/1mR0Eji )	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	if im stuck with reading some "maximum thought" concoction i have to spell it out and read it anyway.	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	now : i do not propose that this is either better, or obligatory for anyone else. whoever can fuck whatever bottle they most like. but i also can't let stand this theory that somehow obscurantist claptrap is the only way to think.	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	one can think just fine in an alphabet, no need to play the egyptian priest.	[15:30]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:30]
ascii_butugychag	as if using longhand made text somehow magically comprehensible to all and unpriestlike.	[15:30]
ascii_butugychag	!s variety speak	[15:30]
assbot	57 results for 'variety speak' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=variety+speak	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	alphabet has its advantages.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	unrelated to content.	[15:31]
ascii_butugychag	also has its crippling limitations.	[15:31]
mircea_popescu	that part's still in dispute.	[15:31]
BingoBoingo	From the mines: "Page C3 of today's NYT in print: "It's a good time to be David Bowie.""	[15:31]
*	PeterL is now known as PeterL_urk	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a tool of thought" paper in principle << i do not. i do however disagree with the theory that tool is substitute sufficient.	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	yes you can figure out what quarks do in either matriceal or formulaic form. but if you can't afterwards SAY what the fuck you found to either heisenberg or schroedinger, the problem's in your head.	[15:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00050697 = 2.8137 BTC [+] {2}	[15:35]
phf	ah	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	there's many things in this "thought" bag.	[15:37]
phf	that's like chinese math, transformation on formulas carried out mechanically by memorizing the book	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	it's one thing to figure something out. it's another thing to figure out what you figured out. and so on.	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	if you're lucky and enough work has been put on doing the transforms that a function was found. plenty of times the transformation's either not obviously or not at all formalizable.	[15:38]
mircea_popescu	i can if you wish pick a page of strings theory for you to transform into any other theoretical framweork of your choice. but might as well take a page of source from gcc and write the lisp.	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	which reminds me of our very own brave sir gabriel_laddel and his x.org thing	[15:39]
ben_vulpes	is HOSTALIASES a thing on linuxen besides ubuntu? v-dns sounds nifty, but i'd like to maintain my own entries.	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes technically you could only put your own pubkey in there, and still let everyone else benefit from yours	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	while you only building your own.	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	anyway, afaik hostaliases is standaerd on all linuxen, but it runs into problems with sanitation, for things that run as root	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	such as ping or w/e	[15:45]
*	ascii_butugychag has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[15:46]
phf	i've spent most of my college years learning math by sometimes translating problem into sexp and running it inside lisp, to get a hang of the numeric or combinatoric behavior of the problem. there were parts of the problem that were easier to grok in sexp and then there were parts that i eventually wrote an approximation of latex formula reader for. i don't really have a clear idea of where the boundry is though	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	importantly, the boundary must be where another begins and you end.	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	this "you gotta run the city in which i wrote the letter to read the letter" thing is for the birds.	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	i ain't building no cities to read anything, ever.	[15:48]
phf	so what do you do when not everything fits in head?	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	you restructure the abstraction tree, which is clearly broken.	[15:52]
phf	hmm	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	you'll note that variety speak or no variety speak, i can explain the whole thing or any part to anyone of any persuasion. that i may not feel like expending the effort for any random derp is true, but also not germane.	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	this, importantly, is not a feat of magic.	[15:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27650 @ 0.00050413 = 13.9392 BTC [-] {3}	[15:56]
*	ascii_butugychag (a211d01a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.17.208.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:59]
phf	my impression of traditional education is that when everything doesn't fit in your head, you continue cramming it, until in the flash of insight, a way of restructuring the tree comes to you. in this case notation allows for a caching mechanism. somewhere on a blackboard there's a cluster of meaning, that you no longer have in your head, because head is full, so having that cluster contain higher density of information allows for a more	[15:59]
phf	rapid load	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:59]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[16:00]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[16:00]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366935 << and rotor is..?	[16:00]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 18:46:27; mircea_popescu: this "you gotta run the city in which i wrote the letter to read the letter" thing is for the birds.	[16:00]
mircea_popescu	phf to that the obvious counter is that sure, but before you've reached a point where you can actually speak of it... it's premature to speak of it ?	[16:00]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366919 << this is uncontroversial i think	[16:00]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 18:33:28; mircea_popescu: yes you can figure out what quarks do in either matriceal or formulaic form. but if you can't afterwards SAY what the fuck you found to either heisenberg or schroedinger, the problem's in your head.	[16:00]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366925 << notation is very often a tool for pseudointellectual flimflammery, yes	[16:01]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 18:36:12; mircea_popescu: if you're lucky and enough work has been put on doing the transforms that a function was found. plenty of times the transformation's either not obviously or not at all formalizable.	[16:01]
ascii_butugychag	but so is 'plain language.'	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	only to noobs.	[16:01]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366933 << aha! DERIVE !	[16:01]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 18:45:40; phf: i've spent most of my college years learning math by sometimes translating problem into sexp and running it inside lisp, to get a hang of the numeric or combinatoric behavior of the problem. there were parts of the problem that were easier to grok in sexp and then there were parts that i eventually wrote an approximation of latex formula reader for. i don't really have a clear idea of where the	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	and rotor is mechanized comunion, strangely enough.	[16:01]
ascii_butugychag	and macsyma is mega-spiffy, using it as we speak even	[16:01]
phf	mircea_popescu: aaah now i see what you mean by obscurantist claptrap	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	look at lacan's "work" to truly see what i mean, and look at all the junk coming out of the usg's 3rd generation to truly know what i mean	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	actually... lemme take a screenshot here.	[16:03]
ascii_butugychag	and i notice they aren't abusing integral signs	[16:03]
ascii_butugychag	(the climatologists and 'economics' - perhaps are)	[16:03]
ascii_butugychag	but in either case, a liver largely consisting of scar tissue is not an argument against having had a liver in the first place.	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	http://dpaste.com/0A0WRTM << there, consider that.	[16:06]
assbot	dpaste: 0A0WRTM ... ( http://bit.ly/1OXCqAm )	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	she has not actually anything to say to it. she;'s some 25 yo from nowhere who has figured out which side the butter's breaded on and is off to washington to live with alfie.	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	BUT if the symbol "activist" ran into any trouble... there's a newly minted "educator" symbol to the rescue.	[16:07]
ascii_butugychag	snorefest!	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	i don't think the postmodern symbological deluge has any sort of match or point of comparison.	[16:07]
ascii_butugychag	and yeah we have titanic dormitories full of these here	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[16:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00050815 = 19.3605 BTC [+] {5}	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	the only reason her bullshit sinks, however, is that i do not permit symbologistics.	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	the only reason she exists is the perhaps well intended, but also castrated inclination of educated males to go "oh, i wonder what the hyeroglypsh mean, can't be discarded out of hand"	[16:09]
ascii_butugychag	i thought it was because it was solid brick with no flotational volume ?	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	which by now is so pervasive even ged-educated nigger in the ghetto knows enough to scream "you don't know what it's like"	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	herp.	[16:09]
ascii_butugychag	nah she exists for the same reason electrical wires running to my house are warm	[16:10]
ascii_butugychag	just an unfortunate fact of thermodynamic loss	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason unicode wars (you know, the thing with the integral ?) are mostly around "how to color figurines" now.	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	this "abstractions" thing mostly works for thine enemies.	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	you save some time, they get saved from extinction.	[16:11]
ascii_butugychag	if all of the railroads are in the hands of hitler, it does not follow that i ought to take an interest in travel by oxcart.	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[16:11]
ascii_butugychag	not 'save some time.' but ABLE TO DEAL IN CONCEPTS of the level i deal in, AT ALL	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	yet all the wires being in the hand of hitler doth make you take an interest in gossipds.	[16:12]
ascii_butugychag	it isnt an oxcart	[16:12]
ascii_butugychag	but more like what i wanted out of the net to begin with.	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	well it isn't anything, so far.	[16:12]
ascii_butugychag	aha	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	i dunno who wanted "the railroads" out of reality.	[16:12]
ascii_butugychag	but since it was referred to, i assumed mircea_popescu was thinking of the idea.	[16:13]
ascii_butugychag	(on my own desk, it is more than an idea, but this is not official yet)	[16:13]
phf	as far as i understand, the point is to walk with mp to his vantage point to see something or other. for example that the railroad runs from hitlertown to the work camps. pretty sure he'll just be delighted if you invited him to your own private railroad that goes from your living quarters to your wineries.	[16:17]
ascii_butugychag	i'm entirely with iverson on this one.	[16:18]
ascii_butugychag	'notation is worth +80 iq'	[16:19]
ascii_butugychag	in the right hands, yes	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	there is no such thing as iq.	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	in which sense, the quote is correct.	[16:19]
ascii_butugychag	tell this to the room-temp iq folks.	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	also, placebo is worth 20 hp.	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	(this has in point of fact been measured, and stands as such)	[16:20]
ascii_butugychag	when mircea_popescu calculates for own reckoning, does he use roman notation? if not, why not?	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	i have been known to	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	(in order to bother girlies.)	[16:21]
ascii_butugychag	http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/romankbd.png << oblig	[16:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCzeNs )	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	believe it or not, latin numeral calculation IS actually possible. and they had all sorts of tricks, too	[16:21]
ascii_butugychag	many things are ~possible~	[16:22]
ascii_butugychag	!s befunge	[16:22]
assbot	6 results for 'befunge' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=befunge	[16:22]
ascii_butugychag	walking on your hands is also... possible	[16:22]
ascii_butugychag	and circus acrobats know some spiffy tricks.	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	more's the point : when you calculate for your own reckoning, do you use inches or milimeters ?	[16:22]
ascii_butugychag	usually the latter	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	know anyon who doesn't ? etc.	[16:23]
*	mircea_popescu will bbl.	[16:23]
ascii_butugychag	actually like most folks living in usa who do any machine work, i own two sets of everything.	[16:23]
ascii_butugychag	incl. drill bits.	[16:23]
ascii_butugychag	this is, i know, sad.	[16:23]
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phf	what's wrong with a moscato anyway? :o	[16:28]
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punkman	"Postel tarpit (n.) - A system that has tried so hard to accept all possible input that any change becomes backwards-incompatible"	[16:31]
punkman	wonky definition but I like the name	[16:34]
*	BashCo (~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:35]
punkman	http://www.cookcomputing.com/blog/archives/000551.html	[16:36]
assbot	Cook Computing - Postel's Robustness Principle Revisited ... ( http://bit.ly/1ndJtbF )	[16:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00051465 = 8.3373 BTC [+] {3}	[16:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00050411 = 5.6208 BTC [-] {2}	[16:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00051576 = 15.7307 BTC [+] {4}	[16:49]
*	joshbuddy (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00051794 = 19.6299 BTC [+] {3}	[16:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00051867 = 4.7199 BTC [+] {3}	[16:59]
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*	Kushed (~Kushedout@104.254.90.235) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00050411 = 4.789 BTC [-] {2}	[17:09]
*	shinohai (2d3a236f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.45.58.35.111) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104171 @ 0.00050296 = 52.3938 BTC [-] {6}	[17:21]
BingoBoingo	but in either case, a liver largely consisting of scar tissue is not an argument against having had a liver in the first place. << B.. But Discriminashun, Cundishuns...	[17:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00051198 = 1.1264 BTC [+] {2}	[17:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29750 @ 0.00051239 = 15.2436 BTC [+] {2}	[17:46]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Zero-Conf Shenanigans Lead To Peter Todd Reddit Ban - http://qntra.net/2016/01/zero-conf-shenanigans-lead-to-peter-todd-reddit-ban/	[17:53]
thestringpuller	damn i wanted that story	[18:02]
BingoBoingo	thestringpuller: You could have submitted something.	[18:04]
thestringpuller	i didn't know it was news cuz coinbase.	[18:05]
thestringpuller	next on bitcoin scammers in VC world: "Coinbase sues Peter Todd for 0.01btc"	[18:05]
shinohai	kek	[18:08]
shinohai	That sounds more like Roger Ver	[18:08]
thestringpuller	the dude who had to move to tokyo cause US wouldn't let him visit?	[18:10]
thestringpuller	"risk of becoming an illegal immigrant"	[18:10]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3007 @ 0.0005135 = 1.5441 BTC [+] {2}	[18:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66306 @ 0.00051291 = 34.009 BTC [-] {2}	[18:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21187 @ 0.00050737 = 10.7496 BTC [-] {2}	[18:29]
*	raedah (~raedah@172.58.41.84) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15263 @ 0.00050217 = 7.6646 BTC [-]	[18:52]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Earliest Possible Date For XTCoin Fork Passes - http://qntra.net/2016/01/earliest-possible-date-for-xtcoin-fork-passes/	[18:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00051011 = 3.2647 BTC [+] {2}	[19:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17619 @ 0.00051986 = 9.1594 BTC [+] {3}	[19:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3312 @ 0.00051763 = 1.7144 BTC [-]	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	!up raedah	[19:42]
-assbot-	You voiced raedah for 30 minutes.	[19:42]
*	assbot gives voice to raedah	[19:42]
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jurov	"I need your agreement in order to republish your contributions under the MIT license. The reason for relicensing Electrum is two-fold: firstly, we want to make Electrum more attractive to developers looking to integrate lightweight Bitcoin functionality into their systems, and a more permissive license is helpful in this regard."	[20:05]
jurov	"Secondly, we want to release a new version of Electrum for mobile devices and tablets. In order to make Electrum available in various app stores (such as Microsoft's Windows Store or Apple's App Store) we cannot keep the restrictive GPL license, as publishing Electrum on some of these stores may break the terms of the GPL."	[20:05]
jurov	gpl stuff can't be in appstore, rly?	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	are you going to give it ?	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	right.	[20:06]
BingoBoingo	gpl stuff can't be in appstore, rly? << Ya Rly	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	miserable move on their part, actually.	[20:07]
guruvan	you not a fan of MIT license mircea_popescu ?	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	but it seems par for the course. all the pimply faced wanna-be bill gates business majors know how to do anymore is cast out a net for suckers, wait until the rate of catch stops, and then try to spin it off and sell it.	[20:08]
*	sueastside has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	so everything starts as gpl, welcomes any sucker foss head to contribute, then "progresses" to a mit license and hey, maybe apple wants to buy it!	[20:08]
jurov	probably not. but my contribution was like, 5 lines.	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	it's shameful. if you're going to prostitute yourself, at least do the world a favour and do it in istanbul, in the nude, in the dedicated quarter for ephebs	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	guruvan i like isis a lot more than i like mit.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	and i'm one of the few guys that publicly burned the coran.	[20:09]
guruvan	well...that's just gonna mean they don't like you :-	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	they're idiots, but at least they're productive. unlike the mit imbeciles who https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334	[20:11]
assbot	MIT genuises with lightbulb - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Zoja3F )	[20:11]
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BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[20:13]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[20:13]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1367071 << l0lwut?! productive??!	[20:13]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 23:09:29; mircea_popescu: they're idiots, but at least they're productive. unlike the mit imbeciles who https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ve23i5K334	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	yes. productive.	[20:14]
ascii_butugychag	of what?	[20:14]
mircea_popescu	wake me up when your imperial/european drill bits produced a robot that routed the usg at tikrit.	[20:14]
ascii_butugychag	usg 'fought' to churn inventory and guarantee lockheed et al earmarks.	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	yaya.	[20:15]
ascii_butugychag	and to prevent ghaddafis	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	mit ain't routing anyone. ever.	[20:15]
ascii_butugychag	mit is so that smart kidz dont tmsr.	[20:16]
ascii_butugychag	they actually called me up last month..	[20:16]
jurov	"Hello, thanks for asking, but I refuse to change the license of my contribution. I cannot with clear conscience recommend a Bitcoin wallet with closed source modifications. Would you use one yourself, really?"	[20:18]
*	ascii_butugychag has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[20:18]
jurov	^ mi rather mild-mannered reply	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	no but you don't understand, they're only trying to.	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	might even make a good qntra piece. this sort of miserable behaviour needs some castigation.,	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	fucking emblematic of the new usa : "1. hey, we're trying to save the world, help us ; 2. hey, the rate at which new people join to help us dropped off so now we'll build an oil refinery instead, maybe shell wants to buy one!"	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	fuck you with a fucking stick, who the heck is supposed to fall for this ?	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	who. 20year olds, obviously. and... they do.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	same fucking thing with "bitcoin dev companies", however many different groups are running this scam by now.	[20:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23040 @ 0.00050125 = 11.5488 BTC [-] {2}	[20:25]
*	jurov scans his private #electrum log, omfg deze gems	[20:27]
jurov	[20151130 17:22] Tribaal: I would not be too concerned about closed-source forks, in the case of Bitcoin software.	[20:27]
jurov	[20151130 17:23] ThomasV: How so? If my fork steals your wallet, I would be pretty sure you'd mind :)	[20:27]
jurov	[20151130 17:24] that's my point. I think nobody would use a closed source fork	[20:27]
jurov	i'm tired and want sleep, whoever is doing qntra, can have it	[20:28]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80527 @ 0.00051023 = 41.0873 BTC [+] {2}	[20:40]
BingoBoingo	might even make a good qntra piece. this sort of miserable behaviour needs some castigation., << for srs jurov	[20:44]
BingoBoingo	It can wait for you to wake up	[20:44]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9631 @ 0.00051024 = 4.9141 BTC [+]	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	in other news, the new merchant of venice is actually 40% done!	[21:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00051687 = 4.6518 BTC [+] {2}	[21:16]
BingoBoingo	O.0	[21:38]
asciilifeform	l0l neato	[21:43]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00051279 = 7.7688 BTC [-] {2}	[21:50]
asciilifeform	;;later tell kakobrekla http://dpaste.com/0B92T3F	[21:51]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[21:51]
assbot	dpaste: 0B92T3F ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q1cOBl )	[21:51]
asciilifeform	in other nyooz,	[21:52]
asciilifeform	~considerably~ smoother performance on the trb+malleus nodez	[21:52]
asciilifeform	(vs historical)	[21:52]
asciilifeform	may be simply on account of the ~80% drop in traffic, though.	[21:53]
*	Kushed has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[21:53]
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asciilifeform	;;later tell BingoBoingo it is not an accurate description of malleus patch to say that it only nukes peers using bloom filters. it nukes any peer which issues any command whatsoever unsupported in trb.	[21:53]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[21:53]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I haven't seen any other commands in debug.log yet. Perhaps leave a comment on post?	[21:55]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: it won't show up in the log as a distinct thing	[21:55]
asciilifeform	just 'heathen.'	[21:55]
BingoBoingo	I mean before using the patch. I've only seen bloom filter from multibit/Shildebach et al hit my node.	[21:56]
BingoBoingo	Other commands may emerge, but bloom filter request is the only one I have seen in the wild.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	anyway, maybe all this "soft-fork" bullshit is really a good opportunity to start a #b-a mining pool.	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	anyone want to run a pool ?	[22:02]
asciilifeform	on submarine ?	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	let's not get overdramatique.	[22:05]
*	hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:06]
asciilifeform	interesting idea, but what's to keep a public pool from infinite ddos 24/7.	[22:06]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[22:07]
BingoBoingo	Who says public pool? Or single point of failure? Why not fork p2pool?	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	iirc p2pool was unfixably slow.	[22:09]
BingoBoingo	hmmm	[22:09]
BingoBoingo	https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Software#Mining_Pool_Servers_.28backend.29 << List not inspiring confidence	[22:11]
assbot	Software - Bitcoin Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1PoE5ZR )	[22:11]
shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367122 <<< /me would certainly try to obtain miners to mine on a #b-a pool	[22:12]
assbot	Logged on 12-01-2016 00:59:53; mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe all this "soft-fork" bullshit is really a good opportunity to start a #b-a mining pool.	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	shinohai a few people have asked, which is why i said.	[22:13]
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shinohai	It would be handy to mine own tx's but would require considerable hashpower, no?	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	;;bc,stats	[22:14]
gribble	Current Blocks: 392907 \| Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 \| Next Difficulty In: 212 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 15 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	not really. to guarantee same-day inclusion, you'd need 1/10/24 * 10^11 = 0.5% of the current hash rate. to guarantee the usual thing wires guarantee (2-3 days) proportionally less.	[22:15]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[22:21]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 446.27, vol: 7498.99347541 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 444.001, vol: 6295.41647 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 446.8, vol: 14550.86099406 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 447.226002, vol: 37121.74600000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 447.37, vol: 112.39650116 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 454.453760989, vol: 15.66709175 \| Volume-weighted last average: 446.714667061	[22:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00051688 = 3.7732 BTC [+]	[22:23]
mod6	ftr: im still laughing about kako's buddy who needed the condoms in thailand	[22:27]
shinohai	Good to have friends that will ship you rubbers just like that when necessary.	[22:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33732 @ 0.00050901 = 17.1699 BTC [-] {5}	[22:29]
mod6	ikr, solid guy	[22:30]
mod6	would trade again	[22:30]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-01-2016#1367138 << well, of the hash rate ~forever~	[22:38]
assbot	Logged on 12-01-2016 01:13:37; mircea_popescu: not really. to guarantee same-day inclusion, you'd need 1/10/24 * 10^11 = 0.5% of the current hash rate. to guarantee the usual thing wires guarantee (2-3 days) proportionally less.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	at a given time.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	else you slip.	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	and it being a random process, "guarantee" is necessarily an average sort of concept.	[22:41]
asciilifeform	aha	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	kilo-log-line day, huh?	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	good stuff.	[22:44]
ben_vulpes	i caught snippets over the oar, looking forward to it.	[22:44]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366272 << whattabout the pronounceable mnemonic hashes a la urbit?	[22:48]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 13:56:49; mircea_popescu: yes, naming can work like that, if 8chan.co and 94875984375983.jksldak are the same to you.	[22:48]
ben_vulpes	fantub tasslyb or what was it	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	and let me guess, you'll get them from... hets ?	[22:48]
*	ben_vulpes wonders if his destroyer still floats	[22:48]
ben_vulpes	hets?	[22:48]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-05-2015#1124584	[22:48]
assbot	Logged on 08-05-2015 01:24:40; assbot: dpaste: 2E0CYZQ: Speakables ... ( http://bit.ly/1dR5Y1j )	[22:49]
asciilifeform	pretty useless	[22:49]
asciilifeform	^ my implementation of mr. mold's early syllables	[22:49]
asciilifeform	(he changed them out later)	[22:49]
ben_vulpes	why useless? and changed to?	[22:49]
asciilifeform	some others	[22:49]
asciilifeform	and useless in that i never found a serious use for it	[22:49]
ben_vulpes	;;rated gernika	[22:50]
gribble	You have not yet rated user gernika	[22:50]
ben_vulpes	mwell i owe ya one	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	if you think i'm about to load my head with random strings...	[22:50]
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ben_vulpes	mhm	[22:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00051688 = 5.7891 BTC [+]	[22:53]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366337 << eve, but with btc, and on an island not in space	[22:53]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 15:21:54; copypaste: i very much love the concept of a 3d game with a bitcoin economy. i've played a few, but all poorly done.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	nah, eve has an inflation problem larger than the usg's.	[22:54]
ben_vulpes	in the sense of a game that is most effectively played with spreadsheets.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	the "spreadsheets in space" thing referred to how its graphics/engine is absent,	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	not to how you play it.	[22:55]
ben_vulpes	you played trader without spreadsheets?	[22:55]
BingoBoingo	nah, eve has an inflation problem larger than the usg's. << And a problem where some things had absolutely no market anywhere, like slaves.	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes sure.	[22:55]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu even got suicide ganked once	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	lol	[22:56]
BingoBoingo	He was mining in his little pickup truck with a new recruit and then he got FOOF'd	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	yeah hey bb weren't you in 1btc ?	[22:57]
BingoBoingo	Yeah	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	how come you're not euloring ?!	[22:57]
BingoBoingo	Newsing is awfully time consuming.	[22:57]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the bitcoin eve society had like... a space station fully built and i dun remember how many of the not-titan class ships, a dozen or some shit	[22:58]
BingoBoingo	The things I have to see	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	but the game is incredibly boring.	[22:58]
BingoBoingo	The fucking "jumps" were the worst part of hauling	[22:58]
ben_vulpes	sinfully boring.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	in tyhe end i was using that society, what was their name	[22:59]
ben_vulpes	and the mega-pvp, even worse.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	i think i had them haul 5 bn worth of isk in 10-20mn installments	[22:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00051688 = 17.9874 BTC [+]	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	but i do recall BingoBoingo did a bunch of hauls in one of those what were they called ? obelisk ?	[23:01]
*	sueastside (~sueastsid@ip-62-235-177-46.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:01]
BingoBoingo	Nah the smaller thing. By the time I trained to the obelisk is about when I bored out of eve. Fucking jumps	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	aha	[23:02]
BingoBoingo	The prospect of locking up CPU time for 8 hour autopilot runs + normal Jita lag was too much	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	anyway, iirc what we did was, we had a full space station that produced fuel	[23:02]
ben_vulpes	time based skilling, bleh.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	and fuel was in high demand so we bought some precursors from jita and sold the fuel to the people in low sec	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	that and some worm hole digging, i recall going with hanbot	[23:03]
BingoBoingo	time based skilling was nbd	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	and with that other chick, what was her name	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	dude how long ago was this ? 2012 ? 13 ?	[23:04]
BingoBoingo	2013	[23:04]
ben_vulpes	dang.	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	feels like 30 fucking years, i reemember it as from under a concrete slab.	[23:04]
BingoBoingo	Summer 2013. After I'd visited here and before I was sitting here full time	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	i remember we kinda had enough of the shit at the same time and that guy, what's his name, the accountant guy ended up inheriting it all	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	smickles, that's right!	[23:05]
ben_vulpes	holy shit smickles	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	;;seen smickles	[23:06]
gribble	smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 30 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: easily a few more bil in things like BPOs and BPCs	[23:06]
ben_vulpes	;;seen smickles	[23:06]
gribble	smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 30 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: easily a few more bil in things like BPOs and BPCs	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	HA!	[23:06]
BingoBoingo	Ah, I missed that part	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	yeah cuz we had a fully researched or whatever it was ? bp to make that battleship	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	the good one.	[23:07]
BingoBoingo	Even jurov got sucked into it with the S.MPOE/1BTC share convertability	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	that alone was like 1bn then. prolly 15 bn by now lol	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	a yeah.	[23:07]
BingoBoingo	Inflation is a hell of a drug	[23:07]
asciilifeform	https://cryptome.org/2016-info/nk-hwasong-gulag/nk-hwasong-gulag.htm << gotta love how usg names roads 'for them'	[23:16]
assbot	North Korea Hwasong Gulag ... ( http://bit.ly/1IZEky3 )	[23:16]
*	asciilifeform can't wait for a map of washington made in pyongyang	[23:16]
asciilifeform	with names.	[23:17]
danielpbarron	ben_vulpes> you played trader without spreadsheets? << what is it for? I use strictly txt files in my various Eulora activities	[23:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30673 @ 0.00051044 = 15.6567 BTC [-] {2}	[23:23]
thestringpuller	LOL smickles has only beeng gone a year. I thought it was longer than that.	[23:23]
ben_vulpes	year and thirty weeks	[23:23]
thestringpuller	i see him on steam occassionaly. must have taken early retirement.	[23:24]
ben_vulpes	danielpbarron: recalculates values whenever inputs change?	[23:24]
ben_vulpes	danielpbarron: has equations in his text files?	[23:24]
danielpbarron	in one called profit.txt yes	[23:25]
asciilifeform	what's in ruin.txt ?	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	haw	[23:25]
danielpbarron	cat: ruin.txt: No such file or directory	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2016#1366807 << aheha this from the guy who when looking at a dsl for a rules engine complained "but but what's wrong with the sexprs?!"	[23:28]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 17:40:46; ascii_butugychag: and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every time !111	[23:28]
BingoBoingo	what's in ruin.txt ? << Enemies whose char would make suitable black for darkening wizard tower stones	[23:28]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: wai wut	[23:28]
ben_vulpes	'tis in the log	[23:29]
asciilifeform	rules engine ?	[23:29]
ben_vulpes	mhm	[23:30]
*	asciilifeform digs futilely for the thread	[23:30]
*	ben_vulpes sighs, goes looking as well	[23:31]
ben_vulpes	doubt rules engine made it into the log	[23:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6908 @ 0.00050125 = 3.4626 BTC [-] {2}	[23:32]
asciilifeform	at any rate, the question of sexprs vs infix ('rich syntax', in derp terminology) is orthogonal to '∇ vs nabla' thing	[23:32]
asciilifeform	and (λ (x y) (....)) ~is~ superior to (lambda...	[23:34]
asciilifeform	and the keyboard of a civilized person ~ought to~ have a alt-graph metakey and a λ printed on the front facet of the L.	[23:35]
asciilifeform	and to compare this to the idiot 'smiley' crapolade is lunacy	[23:36]
asciilifeform	shit, shinola. both black, 'spreading works', the similarity ends there.	[23:36]
ben_vulpes	motherfucker	[23:37]
ben_vulpes	where did this come from and where did it go	[23:38]
asciilifeform	lemme guess, it was a gabriel_laddel thread	[23:38]
ben_vulpes	doubt it.	[23:38]
ben_vulpes	memory implies it was a link followed from some acl conference sponsors list.	[23:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.0005035 = 8.2574 BTC [+] {4}	[23:39]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: can you recall any ?	[23:40]
asciilifeform	i must've slept through this.	[23:41]
asciilifeform	as did assbot.	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	bah.	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	i've been digging, but the line's not showing in the logs.	[23:42]
ben_vulpes	not even searching for from:ben_vulpes asciilifeform http -log.bitcoin-assets.com	[23:42]
ben_vulpes	the sample code had some declarative rules, and your complaint was something along the lines of "why'd they get rid of the parens?!"	[23:42]
asciilifeform	...	[23:43]
*	ben_vulpes shrugs	[23:43]
ben_vulpes	'tis lost.	[23:43]
asciilifeform	let's do a brick-in-your-face-obvious illustrative case.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	λf. (λx. f (x x))(λx. f (x x))	[23:47]
asciilifeform	vs	[23:47]
asciilifeform	lambda f. (lambda x. f (x x))(lambda x. f (x x))	[23:48]
*	joshbuddy_ (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:48]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:48]
*	joshbuddy_ is now known as joshbuddy	[23:48]
asciilifeform	(the alert reader will recognize the infamous 'y combinator.')	[23:48]
asciilifeform	now WHICH ONE IS READABLE	[23:48]
mircea_popescu	the latter.	[23:49]
asciilifeform	l0l	[23:49]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu speaks like a fella who never has to.	[23:49]
asciilifeform	has to any of it.	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	look... i read what i read. what do you want from me ?	[23:49]
asciilifeform	idk, get out old notebook from school, and see how many pages it'd take you to ~unambiguously~ and ~rigorously~ english-verbalize, e.g., green's theorem ?	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	in 6th or 7th grade at some point i discovered sums and the sigma. i was enchanted for about a year. throughout highschool i just wrote them out.	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	because it seriously is no fucking gain.	[23:52]
asciilifeform	and when you have 11 of them nested ?	[23:52]
asciilifeform	also wrote out ?	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	besides the fact that it paginates poorly.	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	if you have 11 nested you fucked something up.	[23:52]
asciilifeform	mno.	[23:52]
asciilifeform	then you're writing a graphics engine, mayhap	[23:52]
mircea_popescu	look : if you have 11 sums nested you fucked something up.	[23:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.0005086 = 6.9933 BTC [+] {3}	[23:53]
asciilifeform	what next, if i need to define an operator i also fucked up ?	[23:53]
asciilifeform	or to use more than 26 variables ?	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	just define whatever the fuck and work on one sum at a fucking time already.	[23:53]
mircea_popescu	if i see void alfun (1, 2, 3, 4 .. 26); ima think you can't code.	[23:54]
asciilifeform	who said code.	[23:54]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu didntcha do peano, frege, et al? how did you manage with 26 letters ?	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	by looking at parts at a time!	[23:54]
asciilifeform	we ran through all of latin, greek, went through much of hebrew on one chalkboardfull	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	the conceptual equivalent of writing fucking subroutines you nut you.	[23:54]
asciilifeform	reusing letters in 1 proof	[23:55]
asciilifeform	is like reusing	[23:55]
asciilifeform	toilet paper.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	during the course of ONE SHIT.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	even.	[23:55]
asciilifeform	washing it, yes.	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	dude get out. there's 7 bn people alive today, not to mention historically, and you think having twenty or a hundred slices of tp makes a difference ?	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	they're all equally dirty anyway.	[23:56]
asciilifeform	typically the only way any of it makes a difference to me is between grasping and not-grasping a thing.	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	well so fine, have at!	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	i'm not telling you how to grasp things, you're the one that keeps going "no true scotsman would go around without a parasol" or w/e.	[23:57]
asciilifeform	mno	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	be the scotsman with a parasol, what do i care.	[23:57]
asciilifeform	my position was 'maths can only adequately happen on a graphical terminal'	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	this is a self-ridiculing proposition.	[23:58]
asciilifeform	relatedly, i spend a great deal of time in uni maths library. to this day. and every so often i end up picking up a thing that was typeset on the cheap, in the dark ages, using typewriter	[23:58]
asciilifeform	EVEN THERE folks laboured to ascii-art the sigmas etc.	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	what can i tell you.	[23:58]
asciilifeform	inked in the integral signs.	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	yeah i had a raft of that retarded shit too	[23:59]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	machine written for text and then hand drawn for symbolics	[23:59]
asciilifeform	didja ever walk up to the author, and ask 'why didntcha do plain text like euclid'	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	i don't remember any of it. nobody does, people who wrote it included.	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	yes, actually. i generally said this si fucking stupid and you people suck.	[23:59]
asciilifeform	aha but generally	[23:59]

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