Forum logs for 11 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
BingoBoingo hashes to hashes, dust to dust << Gotta keep the dust under control though. Fans and everything. [00:04]
BingoBoingo * mircea_popescu wonders if all these people were waiting on winnings to make more bets. << Likely [00:07]
* adlie has quit (Quit: Not all who wonder for lust) [00:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8040 @ 0.0005016 = 4.0329 BTC [+] {4} [00:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7535 @ 0.00049781 = 3.751 BTC [-] [00:13]
BingoBoingo It's even been pointed out here before. After the "mysterious" amaclin fellow malleated transactions to high-s the power rangers started operating some nodes that automalleated everything passing through to low-s [00:13]
BingoBoingo Even without that it is clear from the BitBet payout problem that people are running nodes that malleate to low-s [00:15]
BingoBoingo There's no need to wonder about things actually being seen on the network. [00:16]
ben_vulpes 'linker file input unused because linking not done' << anyone ever see this while compiling trb on open bsd? [00:18]
ben_vulpes using scripts from stator ml post. [00:18]
thestringpuller danielpbarron: nice find >> I wonder how it will play out. [00:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00050112 = 7.3164 BTC [+] {2} [00:22]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Which GCC are you using? [00:23]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: 4.2.1 [00:24]
BingoBoingo Is that the right version? [00:25]
ben_vulpes i don't even know what the right version *would* be, beyond "not apple's" [00:25]
* BingoBoingo doesn't remember details of the setup he uses to compile bastard client, should prolly work on that after getting some newsing done [00:25]
ben_vulpes BaStarD client? [00:25]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: The one where I apply alf patches to 0.7.2 after finding locations and they usually work [00:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00050112 = 12.4278 BTC [+] [00:27]
* BingoBoingo was drunk for most of the chopping so most details are lost to history [00:27]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: afaik nobody's done a proper crapple (clang) build as of yet [00:27]
asciilifeform (and it is not clear why this'd be a useful thing) [00:27]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: that is not what i'm working on. [00:28]
ben_vulpes and didn't fluffypony? [00:28]
asciilifeform fwiw i have full bore civilized gcc toolchain on my salt mine mbp. [00:28]
asciilifeform with gdb, etc. [00:28]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: iirc he used actual gcc [00:29]
ben_vulpes anyways, this is all a bloody mystery to me. i've never seen a sh script crap out midway through and not run its remaining bits, but thats what stator seems to do over here. [00:31]
asciilifeform << remind me again why you have a sideshow thing and not trb [00:31]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 02:56:50; BingoBoingo: ^ currently in live fire on zoolag and dulap << Applied to my bastardized testbed [00:31]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what kind of box is 'over here' ? [00:31]
ben_vulpes old macbook pro running openbsd 5.8 [00:32]
asciilifeform ah hm [00:32]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I have a linux trb, but I keep sideshow because inertia and curiosity. [00:32]
ben_vulpes totally vanilla install from bsd.rb [00:32]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i have an openbsd box here but it will not build trb, not enough ram (+swap even) [00:32]
asciilifeform so i cannot replicate. [00:32]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: does it build /boost/? [00:32]
asciilifeform nope [00:32]
ben_vulpes hm. [00:33]
asciilifeform it's a toshiba libretto 100ct. [00:33]
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asciilifeform iirc when i did netbsd i built for linux and used the compat layer. [00:34]
asciilifeform this is prolly the reasonable thing to do. [00:34]
asciilifeform esp. now that it ACTUALLY WORKS because no more idiot glibc crud [00:35]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [00:35]
ben_vulpes trb compiled just dandily on the ubuntu i had on the box previously [00:35]
ben_vulpes machine in question has 4G of ram, should be 'all anyone ever needed' [00:35]
asciilifeform my experience with openbsd for daily life has not been very satisfying [00:35]
asciilifeform the build system is thoroughly infested with crud [00:36]
asciilifeform e.g., want x11 emacs ? say hello to dbus [00:36]
asciilifeform EVEN ON GENTOO i do not suffer this [00:36]
asciilifeform fuck it [00:36]
asciilifeform full depoetteringization with ONE MOTHERFUCKING CONFIG LINE or go home. [00:36]
asciilifeform i do not understand why openbsd is revered today [00:37]
asciilifeform the founder is willfully blind and surrounded by usg monkeys [00:37]
asciilifeform who 'speak for him' and insult mircea_popescu on his behalf [00:37]
asciilifeform and they have done their work on the miserable os, and it shows [00:38]
ben_vulpes if it continues to fail to compile trb i may embark on gentoo quest instead. [00:38]
asciilifeform and theo boils his belt and accordion while 'aggressive queergendered' eat caviar in 'hackathons' [00:39]
trinque there was an effort to shit portage onto openbsd [00:39]
asciilifeform trinque: there was also an effort to stitch monkey and dog together [00:39]
trinque stalled. [00:39]
asciilifeform in the middle ages. [00:39]
trinque hardly an apt comparison. [00:39]
asciilifeform very apt, in that neither came to anything or is ever likely to. [00:39]
BingoBoingo !b 4 [00:40]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:40]
trinque heh [00:41]
asciilifeform hm, does anybody even update bashlog any moar. [00:41]
* adlai recalls something about calls for moderation [00:42]
trinque davout was conscripted [00:42]
ben_vulpes << possibly the same psychological process that makes people proud of impenetrable shell scripts for munging text [00:43]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:35:14; asciilifeform: i do not understand why openbsd is revered today [00:43]
kakobrekla anyone else wanna be bash mod? [00:43]
trinque ben_vulpes: ahem. Makefile. [00:43]
ben_vulpes heh. [00:43]
adlai kakobrekla: what are the qualifications? L4? ability to verify deeds? these things have to be selective, to keep out idiots... [00:44]
ben_vulpes i'm curious to see if your makefile works on this (apprently) insane device, trinque. [00:44]
trinque I don't buy it [00:44]
trinque the *whole world* is made of shit [00:44]
trinque I'm quite liking the texture of this turd atm [00:44]
ben_vulpes don't you dare grow proud of tools that you made to wrap your hands around the shitworld's throat trinque. it's not a symbolics machine! [00:45]
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kakobrekla adlai i dunno, not being an idiot goes a long way. [00:45]
adlai the problem, as our mopheaded joo 'discovered', is that even human stupidity is relative [00:46]
adlai ;;later tell mike_c candle charts lacking a couple weeks of recency [00:47]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:47]
kakobrekla theres also absolute stupidity, no? [00:47]
adlai how do you measure it? [00:48]
adlai if it's absolute, you should be able to build a stupidometer [00:48]
adlai composed of nothing but lead and plutonium [00:48]
adlai maybe a smattering of !down syndrome, but that makes in non-absoloot [00:49]
adlai who runs btw? it's consistently returning empty html tables :( [00:50]
adlai ah there we go. [00:50]
* adlai swears he tried enough times to justify the spam... goodnight now, may tomorrow be soberer and less smeared with shit [00:50]
kakobrekla im not convinced absolutity is the absolute condition for measurability [00:50]
asciilifeform ;;seen mike_c [00:51]
gribble mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already [00:51]
adlai !s seen mike_c [00:51]
assbot 103 results for 'seen mike_c' : [00:52]
asciilifeform anybody have a finger on him in meatspace ? [00:52]
asciilifeform mod6 ? [00:52]
adlai dude vaporized from the face of the logs, although apparently still receives ;;later tells [00:52]
kakobrekla how would you know that? [00:52]
adlai action and reaction [00:52]
mod6 asciilifeform: naw, i dont [00:52]
ben_vulpes speed at which he brought btcalpha back up? [00:52]
ben_vulpes one the man. [00:53]
kakobrekla this doesnt mean he actually read it. [00:53]
* ben_vulpes shrugs [00:53]
ben_vulpes re: operating systems, i am looking forward to gabriel_laddel's thing. [00:53]
adlai the fact that i mention foucault all the time doesn't mean anybody pays attention to me obsessively quoting it, either [00:53]
trinque ben_vulpes: that thing gets to be called a desktop environment at best [00:53]
adlai lol! [00:53]
adlai ben_vulpes: have you followed "cl os" thread much? [00:53]
kakobrekla most of the time when assbots drops down i get yelled at but i almost never actually do something about it to bring it back, yet here it is. [00:54]
adlai in the wider-than-ba sense of 'thread' [00:54]
adlai even loper died [00:54]
* adlai takes off hat << ami doin it rite? [00:54]
adlai !down adlai [00:54]
* assbot has kicked adlai from #bitcoin-assets (Bye.) [00:54]
asciilifeform adlai: dies properly when i'm dead [00:54]
asciilifeform until then, we zombie along, throwing maggotrous pieces at people [00:55]
ben_vulpes trinque: sure. [00:55]
trinque I just huddle inside emacs talking to myself [00:55]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell adlai not particularly. [00:56]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:56]
asciilifeform << y'know, reimplementing portage in cl (or whatever, fuck, in fortran if you want) instead of python doesn't magically unbreak the foss ecosystem [00:56]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:51:20; ben_vulpes: re: operating systems, i am looking forward to gabriel_laddel's thing. [00:56]
ben_vulpes emacs is a good example of tools with which to throttle complexity, aka intelligence augmentation [00:56]
asciilifeform that is quite certainly rotten to all hell [00:56]
ben_vulpes tangentially related, i ran across 'sorcerer' the other day. funny little corner of linux, that. [00:58]
asciilifeform was sorta like a micro-gentoo [01:00]
ben_vulpes lol "the popularity of a tool is proportionate to the amount of time it makes its users waste" [01:00]
asciilifeform but, iirc, didn't have USE flags and other niceties [01:00]
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asciilifeform << loads but links dead [01:01]
assbot Sorcerer Linux ... ( ) [01:01]
asciilifeform sad. [01:01]
ben_vulpes deathcomesforusall [01:01]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: not quite: 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!' [01:02]
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ben_vulpes the odd unlucky derp attains immortality? [01:05]
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trinque !up gabriel_laddel [01:07]
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deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.82797180 BTC on 'No' - S&P 500 to close above 2000 on December 30th - [01:14]
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BingoBoingo connection from dropped (banned) << Win [01:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9050 @ 0.00050409 = 4.562 BTC [+] [01:16]
BingoBoingo ERROR: BANNED peer issuing heathen command. << Bigger win. Debug.log is fun. [01:17]
gabriel_laddel ben_vulpes: "no, no dedicated sales people yet. why do you ask?" < Curiosity. [01:18]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: Spiffy keyboard. [01:18]
trinque asciilifeform: for my curiosity, if the tubes have mouths, could your patch be used by $enemy to alter the topology of the network in ways beneficial to it? [01:22]
trinque hitler doesn't want you to talk to nodes X Y Z, so he barfs up packets with a heathen commands. [01:24]
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asciilifeform trinque: i did say this to mircea_popescu. [01:49]
asciilifeform trinque: plaintext node-node link is a doomed thing. [01:49]
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BingoBoingo !up raedah [01:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.0005039 = 9.0198 BTC [-] {3} [02:06]
phf ben_vulpes: i'll take at look in the next few days, but one quick comment, fwiw i built it on a 32-bit openbsd. [02:14]
phf the goal was to run it on a libretto and try to eat the first couple of blocks, but it wouldn't even connect to rpc for whatever reason, so i gave up on the whole distraction [02:15]
deedbot- [Qntra] Reference Client Patch Bans Bloom Filter Parasites - [02:18]
phf (trying to debug via serial cable on a pentium 233 is it's own kind of fun....) [02:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21650 @ 0.00049831 = 10.7884 BTC [-] {3} [02:19]
BingoBoingo ^ No promise IP in article was IP actually seen in debug.log [02:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21542 @ 0.00050644 = 10.9097 BTC [+] {2} [02:35]
ben_vulpes programmers and their bonzai trees of complexity [02:39]
ben_vulpes nightmare hybrid zen rock combing garden and jenga [02:40]
mats i can't visualize this [02:43]
BingoBoingo mats: Imagine the rocks are wet and the rake is sodium [02:44]
ben_vulpes in freefall [02:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35104 @ 0.00049865 = 17.5046 BTC [-] [02:45]
mats but where is the jenga [02:46]
ben_vulpes aha it's backwards jenga [02:47]
ben_vulpes you add new bits and try to not knock the whole thing over [02:47]
mats one can't just smash japanesu words together with jenga and expect this to be comprehensible [02:48]
ben_vulpes all the while gently raking the rocks and snipping ornamentally at the leaves [02:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4468 @ 0.00049865 = 2.228 BTC [-] [02:48]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [02:58]
gribble Current Blocks: 392774 | Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 | Next Difficulty In: 345 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 0 hours, 25 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [02:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00050645 = 5.6976 BTC [+] [03:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00050645 = 2.6842 BTC [+] [03:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69350 @ 0.00050571 = 35.071 BTC [-] [03:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26100 @ 0.00049992 = 13.0479 BTC [-] {4} [03:24]
copypaste mircea_popescu: i see you're having trouble with - they seized a domain of mine without warning before, and only gave it back when i retained a lawyer in the Bahamas; the domain was [03:36]
BingoBoingo copypaste: I suspect the reason you dislike pete_dushenski aping trilema is he comes from boring Canada and his cool factor and empire potential are limited by that. [03:38]
copypaste i would further like to let you know that has been sold since you and i registered our domains there, of course without notice to us [03:38]
copypaste (if in fact you registered on the creation day of 2009-06-07) [03:39]
copypaste [03:39]
assbot CentralNic buys domain name registrar (IBS) | Press from 2014 | Press | About | CentralNic ... ( ) [03:39]
BingoBoingo copypaste: He changed registrars from namecheap when they went derpy web 2.goatse [03:41]
copypaste changed my nameservers to IBS controlled nameservers which served their own ads and intercepted all cookies to the domain [03:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24343 @ 0.00050648 = 12.3292 BTC [+] {4} [03:42]
copypaste well BingoBoingo, i'd also recommend you read this in case you need a refresher on how DNS actually works [03:42]
assbot The rotten and corrupt Domain Name System (DNS; EuroDNS = thieves) - ... ( ) [03:42]
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BingoBoingo DNS works as NSA spyware [03:43]
copypaste people who own domains are absolutely at the mercy of the registering company, because the registering company IS the actual owner according to ICANN [03:43]
BingoBoingo Yes [03:43]
copypaste and ICANN is a corrupt organization because it's USG affiliated [03:43]
BingoBoingo And Glibc DNS functions force dynamic linking which is why excised from trb [03:43]
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copypaste i really hope will stay online and they won't steal it, but based on my interactions with i'm worried [03:44]
copypaste i recommend you retain an attorney in the bahamas like i did [03:44]
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BingoBoingo win [03:45]
copypaste BingoBoingo: we all know that the best DNS system is a GPG based one. private key trumps all nebulous ideas of "ownership" and "terms of service". [03:45]
BingoBoingo "@qntra we always recommend running your own nodes for security. To run with "altruism" as one's security plan is nothing but a fool's errand" [03:45]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell guruvan thank you for stepping up on this issue [03:46]
gribble The operation succeeded. [03:46]
mats whats this gpg based dns system [03:46]
copypaste it doesn't exist but in my own head [03:47]
BingoBoingo gossipd [03:47]
copypaste but, it would be the best system ever made. [03:47]
copypaste (for DNS _) [03:47]
BingoBoingo namecoin could have not sucked, but too late for that [03:48]
copypaste indeed. the problem with DNS is how entrenched it is. [03:49]
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copypaste honestly after this happened to me i went into a deep depression that took months to recover from; all of my perceptions of the internet were shattered. and as an aside that's why i no longer own 8chan [03:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16786 @ 0.00050688 = 8.5085 BTC [+] {3} [03:50]
BingoBoingo Muh feels [03:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7705 @ 0.00050729 = 3.9087 BTC [+] [03:51]
ben_vulpes copypaste: were you the guy running mp's ads? [03:53]
BingoBoingo But yeah, my perceptions of the internet continually break and have to recompile [03:53]
copypaste yes i was ben_vulpes, for the month that they were paid for [03:53]
copypaste renegotiation of that contract would have to be with , not me [03:54]
copypaste it's probably not worth it though, 8chan is moribund [03:55]
ben_vulpes eyeballs are fickle. [03:57]
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copypaste it has a chance of bouncing back, in the same way that gavin's career has a chance of bouncing back [03:57]
copypaste it could happen sure; will it? it's not likely [03:58]
copypaste BingoBoingo: now i never make assumptions about ownership. quite the opposite. if it's not backed by a private key i just assume i don't own it, less disappointment that way. [03:59]
BingoBoingo ic [03:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90300 @ 0.00050662 = 45.7478 BTC [-] {8} [04:01]
BingoBoingo K, qntra's slow seems to have a touch of the DDoS. Going to sleep. Anyone who wants to write about Intel's Skylake already having a rowhammer exploit coded for its DDR4 controler feel free to sumbit a piece. [04:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00050899 = 6.9732 BTC [+] {2} [04:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00051112 = 1.7889 BTC [+] [04:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00050313 = 2.1886 BTC [-] {2} [05:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00050757 = 7.6136 BTC [+] {3} [05:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29836 @ 0.00050312 = 15.0111 BTC [-] {3} [05:48]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype - [05:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24088 @ 0.0005144 = 12.3909 BTC [+] {3} [05:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00050099 = 15.4305 BTC [-] [06:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18781 @ 0.0005168 = 9.706 BTC [+] {4} [06:28]
punkman [06:37]
assbot Verizon Routing Millions of IP Addresses for Cybercrime Gangs ... ( ) [06:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8150 @ 0.00051705 = 4.214 BTC [+] [07:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00051282 = 13.3333 BTC [-] {4} [07:11]
punkman [07:26]
assbot Shenzhen closes down 6.6% as China market rout continues - ... ( ) [07:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00051023 = 2.5001 BTC [-] {2} [07:28]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8250 @ 0.00051023 = 4.2094 BTC [-] [07:47]
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punkman !up nikthebookie [08:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32968 @ 0.00051617 = 17.0171 BTC [+] {5} [08:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20082 @ 0.00051713 = 10.385 BTC [+] [08:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40200 @ 0.00051724 = 20.793 BTC [+] {2} [08:08]
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jurov depends which yurp. the slovakistan healthcare deteriorates so quickly that all pregnant women i know did at least consider it. [08:16]
assbot Logged on 10-01-2016 03:54:17; mircea_popescu: but anyway. natural birth has a huge following in the states. almost unknown in yurp. [08:16]
jurov only few days ago heating in biggest hospital in bratislava fell out and they had to haul women in labour around [08:17]
kakobrekla natural = in the barn ? [08:17]
jurov no, home, usually in the tub [08:18]
jurov with some professional assistant available [08:18]
kakobrekla yeah, midwifes [08:19]
jurov lulz were when they asked PM about it while he ran his 3rd pressconference about syrian refugees in month [08:20]
jurov he literally said "stfu, the boiler room is not my responsibility" [08:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14341 @ 0.00051737 = 7.4196 BTC [+] {4} [08:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49243 @ 0.00051821 = 25.5182 BTC [+] {3} [08:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00051911 = 5.3468 BTC [+] [08:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.00051603 = 6.5536 BTC [-] {4} [09:27]
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punkman [09:38]
assbot ... ( ) [09:38]
shinohai srsly? Life in the land of the free .... [09:39]
punkman [09:46]
assbot ... ( ) [09:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00050727 = 4.9205 BTC [-] [09:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4441 @ 0.00050624 = 2.2482 BTC [-] {3} [10:03]
jurov They will laugh at you back with your cravings of sugar. [10:14]
assbot Logged on 10-01-2016 06:21:12; BingoBoingo: Could simulate these changes with benzodiazepine dependence (which is why people who do the Keto thing recreationally start to feel sick when carbs are introduced, ketosis stops and they undergo a drug withdrawal) [10:14]
adlai !t m s.mpoe [10:16]
assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00048327 / 0.00050429 / 0.00051911 (1339213 shares, 675.35 BTC), 7D: 0.00047125 / 0.00050131 / 0.00052085 (8567396 shares, 4,295.00 BTC), 30D: 0.00047125 / 0.00049646 / 0.00052085 (85080661 shares, 42,239.77 BTC) [10:16]
mircea_popescu << you mean measurabilititty. [10:17]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:48:39; kakobrekla: im not convinced absolutity is the absolute condition for measurability [10:17]
mircea_popescu << lettuce not get ahead of our selves. [10:19]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:51:27; adlai: the fact that i mention foucault all the time doesn't mean anybody pays attention to me obsessively quoting it, either [10:19]
assbot 3 results for 'foucault' - #bitcoin-assets search [10:19]
adlai << "never keep"? what does this even [10:20]
assbot Logged on 30-07-2015 19:17:09; shinohai: Books too, they had a hard-on for Umberto Eco for some reason, and I could never keep a copy of Foucault's Pendulum [10:20]
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mircea_popescu << more importantly, it's not clear to me portage is even useful anymore. since v i mean. [10:21]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:54:29; asciilifeform: << y'know, reimplementing portage in cl (or whatever, fuck, in fortran if you want) instead of python doesn't magically unbreak the foss ecosystem [10:21]
mircea_popescu << i had no idea lenin shat in the bidet before. [10:22]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:59:57; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not quite: 'Ленин - жил, Ленин - жив, Ленин - будет жить!' [10:22]
mircea_popescu "lenin, lived ; lenin, lives ; lenin shat in the bidet!" [10:23]
mircea_popescu <<< certainly. which is why trb nodes are not all advertised, and we're eagerly awaiting seeing this "pure coincidence". [10:24]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 04:21:48; trinque: hitler doesn't want you to talk to nodes X Y Z, so he barfs up packets with a heathen commands. [10:24]
mircea_popescu that "never happened" [10:25]
mircea_popescu and etc. [10:25]
mircea_popescu << not exactly, at least not yet. we had an exchange, they backed off. (last i heard was "We have already asked the complainant to contact the webhost as we do not provide hosting services and cannot remove any content from the website. We are awaiting their response and will forward you the details once they respond." which is exactly what one'd expect sane people [10:29]
mircea_popescu would say to try and extricate themselves from the potential mess). [10:29]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 06:34:49; copypaste: mircea_popescu: i see you're having trouble with - they seized a domain of mine without warning before, and only gave it back when i retained a lawyer in the Bahamas; the domain was [10:29]
mircea_popescu from what intel reports they had a cowboy period ~in2014 when they stole a bunch of domains, got slapped with some suits, lost a coupla worth their income for the decade and settled right the fuck down. [10:30]
mircea_popescu anyway, judging by the [Ticket#2015121310000406] header it'd seem they sat on this for almost a month - from dec 13 to jan 9th. but whatevers, i was just looking for a pretext to throw the whole dns bullshit away anyway. [10:31]
mircea_popescu i want domain names like i want a wide selection of hats. [10:31]
adlai "naked people have little to no influence on society" - mark twain iirc? [10:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00050485 = 11.0562 BTC [-] {4} [10:36]
mircea_popescu this was pre-mp. [10:37]
mircea_popescu these days, dressed women will have little influence on society. [10:37]
copypaste interesting mircea_popescu. i won't ask where you got that intel from, but it means i wasn't the only one affected [10:40]
copypaste and i wasn't the only one to open cases in bahamas courts [10:40]
mircea_popescu << no, i moved it a few weeks ago. [10:40]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 06:37:06; copypaste: (if in fact you registered on the creation day of 2009-06-07) [10:40]
mircea_popescu copypaste tons of people were affected and the eventual sale was related. [10:41]
mircea_popescu originally i registered the domain with namecheap ; originally namecheap was a great registrar. meanwhile they went to utter shit, the story is both on trilema an' in the logs. [10:41]
copypaste do you have a comment on the article? i think it's spot on but you definitely know all the details already [10:42]
copypaste DNS is ICANN and ICANN is USG [10:42]
copypaste therefore DNS is USG [10:42]
copypaste no way around it. [10:42]
mircea_popescu which article is this ? [10:42]
copypaste i linked it above in the log [10:43]
mircea_popescu ahj saw it [10:43]
copypaste [10:43]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 06:40:37; copypaste: well BingoBoingo, i'd also recommend you read this in case you need a refresher on how DNS actually works [10:43]
mircea_popescu i can't make any sense of said article, myself. [10:45]
mircea_popescu so guy is pissed off and likes to call things names. fine. [10:45]
mircea_popescu for one thing, if half a mil is " you can just forget about that right away." to you, then on what the fuck is your expectation to participate in the workings of society based ?! [10:46]
mircea_popescu obviously EVERY naming system will work exactly like the dns, or like the wot works : either be at the table, or be a child looking for parents. [10:46]
mircea_popescu how else ? [10:46]
copypaste the wot works better than DNS [10:47]
copypaste because the WoT is keybased [10:47]
copypaste and DNS is fiat biased [10:47]
copypaste i would accept a WoT DNS [10:47]
mircea_popescu well, yes, because it wasn't made by idiots. but the fundamental point remains : someone excluded could re-use that article by re-writing 5 words. [10:47]
mircea_popescu but in point of fact you can run a dns server right now, and tell everyone to use it, and for everyone who does use it... your version of the ns will be visible. [10:47]
mircea_popescu heck, there was a bitcoin-based thing that kinda worked on that premise. namecoin. [10:48]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - [10:48]
copypaste oh sure, but you don't get to create names on the real DNS [10:48]
copypaste the one anyone cares about [10:48]
mircea_popescu there is no "real" dns. [10:48]
copypaste it's like making an altcoin [10:48]
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copypaste ICANN has given themselves authority to make new TLDs, ICANN has given themselves ultimate authority over names [10:49]
mircea_popescu well yes. your choices are : either have enough power / capiutal / value to acquire enough actual btc to matter in that world ; or else to get used to not mattering in the world ; or else to have even more power and force an alt into being. [10:49]
mircea_popescu no, the usg has given icann such authority. [10:49]
adlai someday somebody will care enough about this to cannibalize what's left of namecoin and build a proper Bitcoin DNS [10:49]
mircea_popescu and every derp out there in indonesia or peru or wherever saving in dollars in preference of my currency, or his president's currency, has given usg such power. [10:49]
mircea_popescu if they change that behaviour, the world will re-arrange and so on. [10:50]
copypaste "la florida and other places" [10:50]
copypaste :) [10:50]
mircea_popescu that one yeah. [10:50]
adlai maybe naming systems shouldn't be design around "investment" and flipping ownership each month! [10:50]
mircea_popescu there is no other way to design a naming system. [10:50]
adlai other than? [10:50]
* adlai wasn't aware that there was one single blessed version, DNS is just the good-enough fiat leftover that we have today [10:50]
mircea_popescu this goes all the way down to actual working of language. do we power the ns that calls me racist and evil ? do we power the ns that calls tess d'urberville or w/e her name is fat and obama an idiot ? [10:50]
mircea_popescu you can't have two. [10:51]
adlai they can bid it off [10:51]
mircea_popescu naming is by its nature this : that there will be a group in power, allocating the names, and everyone else can go suck it. [10:51]
mircea_popescu ha-ha. this is what i'll call the delusion of heysteve, this "they can bid it off", after [10:55]
assbot Logged on 16-10-2015 13:23:33; mircea_popescu: << so a) you'll spend your life driving between bickering nuts. this is a worse deal than what psychs get, at least there you gotta drive to his office. ; b) the blockchain and everything else is entirely superfluous here. your entire idea is "hey, make me the mp of renting in south africa". maybe they will or maybe they won't but [10:55]
mircea_popescu who the fuck do you think you are that they'd bother to "bid it off" ? they won't bid it off in front of you, they'll just ignore your delusion. [10:55]
copypaste i don't see why naming has to be this way. [10:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00050726 = 1.4711 BTC [+] {2} [10:57]
copypaste naming based on the bitcoin blockchain is best. i own this bitcoin private key, i own this domain. [10:57]
copypaste it's already like that on the tor network. [10:57]
copypaste i own this private key, i own domain derpxxxxx.onion. [10:57]
copypaste you can;'t take it away from me unless you get the key. that's how naming should be. [10:57]
mircea_popescu you familiar with the name zooko ? [10:58]
copypaste dns was good in the time of fiat, it's worthless for the new paradigm. [10:58]
copypaste i'm not unfortunately. [10:58]
mircea_popescu yes. well, look into the zooko triangle. [10:58]
mircea_popescu yes, naming can work like that, if and 94875984375983.jksldak are the same to you. [10:58]
mircea_popescu otherwise, a bitcoin vanity address with five specified letters (out of the whole set) takes a day. [10:59]
punkman might as well do gpg-signed /etc/hosts entries [11:00]
mircea_popescu quite. [11:00]
mircea_popescu in fact, v-powered /etc/hosts may even be a serious improvement over the current situation. [11:04]
mircea_popescu "i want to use the dns for back-up, whenever what ~these~ people use doesn't contain an answer". seems pretty cool. [11:04]
mircea_popescu and incidentally, how the dns was actually designed to be used. the current centralist windowstardian webstupidity only works the way it works because of the userbase. the design is fine, but "everyone"| and "has come to expect" and bullshit like that make people pretend like a suboptimal local maximum is relevant to the graph. well... it ain't. [11:06]
mircea_popescu hey panzers... we actually game to doing this ? it really dun cost much and it does resolve an actual problem, provide a serious incentive to participate, makes nice media headlines... low hanging fruit. [11:07]
mircea_popescu it can even run as an antispam service in parallel. if i go in my file, you won't be seeing any ads from them in your browser, no matter what they do. [11:12]
mircea_popescu it also introduces a kinda dubious but possibly useful ddos protector, in the sense that one can run different ips for the meatriver and for the wotdns. [11:14]
shinohai That would be stellar [11:14]
mircea_popescu lettuce see what trinque ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov kakobrekla & co say when they wakeup [11:16]
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mircea_popescu o hey, what happened to guruvan [11:25]
mircea_popescu ;;seen guruvan [11:25]
gribble guruvan was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 13 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 8 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: have the right key in there? [11:25]
mircea_popescu !up guruvan [11:25]
-assbot- You voiced guruvan for 30 minutes. [11:25]
* assbot gives voice to guruvan [11:25]
* mircea_popescu waves [11:25]
jurov if you insist on people telling you what you "must" or "we must do" then I'll tell you this: you must study what was done already before spamming opinions around. [11:29]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 01:48:18; *: adlai will have to implement his own, so it runs on his 'pogo' [11:29]
mircea_popescu << i suspect i had an incorrect idea of your involvement with that thing. [11:29]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 06:52:12; copypaste: renegotiation of that contract would have to be with , not me [11:29]
mircea_popescu i tend to do this "X's item" because that's how the republic works. obviously, not how the fiatosphere does. [11:30]
jurov as you can see i've woken up, still have a half a day to go [11:30]
jurov or it's urgent? [11:30]
mircea_popescu nah not urgent, just important. [11:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00051069 = 12.6651 BTC [+] {3} [11:34]
copypaste mircea_popescu: i suspect i also had an incorrect idea of my involvement with that thing [11:42]
mircea_popescu hahaha [11:43]
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mircea_popescu <<< if they do it right after a run of bootleg liquour, it also disinfects! [11:49]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 11:16:03; jurov: no, home, usually in the tub [11:49]
mircea_popescu << ahahaha what the shit. [11:50]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 12:44:25; punkman: [11:50]
mircea_popescu this wouldn't be would it ? [11:50]
assbot Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [11:50]
mircea_popescu in any case, << shot a cop! [11:51]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13591 @ 0.00051259 = 6.9666 BTC [+] {2} [11:56]
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copypaste i wish there were a statically compiled eulora without all these dependencies [12:07]
thestringpuller there's binaries copypaste [12:08]
copypaste i keep trying on and off to take MP's invitation to play, but i keep being dissuaded by the large effort required on my part :p [12:08]
thestringpuller that's understandable. it's like playing dwarf fortress for the first time I 'spose [12:08]
copypaste quite [12:09]
thestringpuller i'm waiting for combat/dungeon crawling before I start to get heavily invested. [12:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13100 @ 0.00050414 = 6.6042 BTC [-] {2} [12:12]
mircea_popescu what are you trying to run it on ? [12:13]
copypaste arch linux x86_64, and shitty pinoy internet to boot [12:16]
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mircea_popescu hm, did you try teh stuff ? i dun recall if anyone ever tried it on arch specifically but by and large should work. [12:18]
assbot Ubuntu - Eulorum ... ( ) [12:18]
mircea_popescu and spit out a usable binary within half an hour. [12:18]
copypaste i had some compiler error, i'll have to try again to bring it back up [12:19]
copypaste it was getting late so i just shut down and then got busy with other things [12:19]
copypaste as things go [12:19]
copypaste i only remembered as i was sorting my inbox and saw the invitation again [12:19]
mircea_popescu aha. there's a buncha people that can prolly halp if you get a specific error. [12:19]
jurov wywialm failed on problems to find corrswtionding arch packages [12:19]
mircea_popescu oh ? [12:20]
jurov so if you get further, you can at least publish them [12:20]
mircea_popescu s/corrswtionding/corresponding ? [12:20]
jurov corrswtionding -> corresponding [12:20]
copypaste perhaps i could even make a PKGBUILD if i get it to work, if it pleases you guys [12:20]
mircea_popescu at least if we have some names we can bitch at arch ppl specifically. [12:20]
copypaste i have a few PKGBUILDs in the AUR [12:20]
mircea_popescu if you do you prolly get some game goodies at any rate. [12:20]
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jurov copypaste: and do paste the compiler log (whole if possible). [12:21]
mircea_popescu one of the most encouraging things about eulora's economy that i see myself is - i keep a running total of player cash and of player assets. and the latter has been a monotonously increasing function ever since forever. the appetite for materials seems outright insatiable. [12:22]
mircea_popescu and in fact from the micro perspective i dun recall anything being offered for sale and not selling, yet. [12:23]
copypaste i very much love the concept of a 3d game with a bitcoin economy. i've played a few, but all poorly done. [12:24]
copypaste made by derps for derps [12:24]
mircea_popescu well the gfx here aren't too advanced, [12:24]
copypaste i mean poorly done in the community sense, in the conomy sense, in the sense of rules [12:24]
mircea_popescu but if you read the #eulora log.... ( ) [12:24]
assbot #Eulora Log ... ( ) [12:24]
mircea_popescu i honestly believe it's the best done game, as far as the underlying "rules" go. owner delusion or not. [12:25]
mircea_popescu considering it's been played for nigh on a year and people don't even know wtf those rules even are... [12:25]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: this insatiable need for materials will only increase when people start killing things and going to war etc. [12:26]
mircea_popescu possibru [12:26]
thestringpuller reminds me distinctly of star wars galaxies before Sony ruined the game. [12:26]
mircea_popescu of course, no major player quit yet. that's usually a principal source of excess goods [12:26]
thestringpuller cause "consumer has come to expect" but I don't think consumers will be problem for eulora [12:26]
thestringpuller but in essence eulora is more than a game, and more of a living world that people virtually inhabit [12:27]
mircea_popescu not so far. ironically... if you go by a timeplay metric, december saw 64722 player-hours, which is seriously more than what MOST games see. [12:28]
mircea_popescu for that matter, usual graphics intensive "AAA" title has what, 50 hours in it ? if not 30. [12:28]
thestringpuller the time sinks in those games are relative unfortunately because it's more effective to leave player wanting more, thus AAA publisher forces studio to make another game [12:29]
thestringpuller diminishing returns can get really dull after say 80 hours into a game with only 50 hours of story [12:30]
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mircea_popescu tru [12:32]
deedbot- [Trilema] What to do when spammers spam you ? Why... offer them work, of course! Capitalism saves lives. Touch the screen now! Heal! - [12:32]
thestringpuller as a side note, I know a player with 300 days of playtime on FFXI. Although it's been out since 2002-2003ish [12:33]
thestringpuller (300 24 hours intervals) [12:33]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 300 * 24 * 3600 [12:33]
gribble 25920000 [12:33]
mircea_popescu well... nobody in eulora there yet. [12:34]
thestringpuller Eulora will grow as it needs to. It's impressive. [12:34]
thestringpuller WoW killed the MMO, Eulora will rebirth it. [12:35]
mircea_popescu hopefully. [12:35]
mircea_popescu eulora record is actually a guy with 13919282 connecterd time. [12:36]
mircea_popescu not gonna say who, other than it's not even me! [12:36]
mircea_popescu fucking unfair. [12:36]
thestringpuller that's impressive [12:36]
mircea_popescu anyway, the first accounts are from early june, so "nigh on a year" ain' really fair. half year. [12:37]
danielpbarron probably me [12:39]
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jurov what does DNS-replacement-by-v need to be done? just take your /etc/hosts, sign and publish, no? [12:39]
mircea_popescu but yeah, i did notice it tends to suck people in. not everyone, but some people. [12:39]
thestringpuller !up PeterL [12:39]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [12:39]
mircea_popescu jurov im thinking more like a rotor script to build a local hosts out of, maybe, deedbotted things ? [12:40]
mircea_popescu on the base of sigils etc. [12:40]
thestringpuller Eulora has deep gameplay, which creates emergent phenomenon which is by design. The real interesting thing is mircea_popescu has figured out how to do this without spending a million a dollars. [12:40]
mircea_popescu user can run it periodically. [12:40]
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thestringpuller !up ascii_butugychag [12:40]
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PeterL BingoBoingo, My current lab is not set up to handle anything as dangerous as FOOF, would need a few kBTC to get something like that set up [12:41]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller the thing is, the meta-game is incredibly rich and very rewarding. usually the problem with making a game, as an enthusiast, is that fucking hell you know it so it's at best half as fun. [12:41]
jurov what's a sigil? [12:41]
mircea_popescu but because of the metagame this doesn't actually hold here. much to my satisfaction. [12:41]
mircea_popescu jurov concept from v, it keeps a sigil directory. [12:41]
jurov are these concepts, like, documented anywhere? [12:41]
mircea_popescu heh. [12:42]
mircea_popescu but he has a point, mod6 and ascii_butugychag : we should prolly document v. [12:42]
ascii_butugychag << much as mircea_popescu dislikes 'must x before y!1111' affairs, this really oughta run on gossipd. [12:42]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 15:37:56; mircea_popescu: jurov im thinking more like a rotor script to build a local hosts out of, maybe, deedbotted things ? [12:42]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag it oughta, but it can run without it too, and it's seemingly easy enough to get started. [12:42]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v [12:42]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: can, but with a great deal of manual sweat [12:43]
mircea_popescu the advantage of prototyping is that most major issues you will spend time working on, you encounter AFTER you're done designing. [12:43]
ascii_butugychag does anyone actually need ~more~ sweat on his box ? [12:43]
mircea_popescu what's the great deal ? [12:43]
mircea_popescu either cron the updater or run it whenever you please. [12:43]
ascii_butugychag how does updater know where to connect ? [12:44]
mircea_popescu how does v currently know where to connect to build the rotor ? [12:44]
ascii_butugychag my v connects nowhere [12:45]
mircea_popescu not the question. [12:45]
ascii_butugychag 100% filesystem-based [12:45]
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PeterL so point the updater using a file [12:46]
ascii_butugychag i'm just not personally convinced that names gotta be automatic [12:46]
mircea_popescu nobody said they gotta be ? [12:46]
ascii_butugychag well it is implicit in the reference to zooko's triangle [12:47]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag ben_vulpes mod6 : is there a way to look at what data messages/control messages are going over the wire or force their invocation in trb? or would that functionality need to be patched in to print to log/accept command from some source? [12:47]
mircea_popescu the reference was to explain to copypaste why he can't have both worlds / what the use of current dns arrangement is. [12:48]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: 'wireshark' (read-only) [12:48]
mircea_popescu if i had to bruteforce sha256 to come up with the signature for "" i probably wouldn't bother. [12:48]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: thx. that's what I was thinking. will do. [12:48]
mircea_popescu and it would definitely cost more than 10 bux. [12:49]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i can't speak for others, but i was always ok with '6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 likes to call himself mircea_popescu so why not' [12:49]
ascii_butugychag the whole 'memorable centralized names' thing is inherently statal. [12:49]
mircea_popescu sure. but i do notice he never registered [12:50]
mircea_popescu (incidentally - if anyone here remembers the ancient discussion re naming services, which is how qntra ended up with that name at least in part - this system would be a necessarily optimal solution to that problem. it'd guarantee you need the minimum possible stroke count to get your desired destination. [12:51]
ascii_butugychag he probably also never drove a cart hitched to a pack of stray dogs [12:51]
mircea_popescu it'd also guarantee you wouldn't recognize it, but hey.) [12:51]
ascii_butugychag i see names as necessarily a local (machine) matter. [12:52]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag and there's no argument considered or offered that it's not statal. the discussion is that under some circumstances it is advantageous. [12:52]
mircea_popescu iirc i even said - what that guy complains of, we'd also do. [12:52]
ascii_butugychag aha i just got off a city train, likewise inherently statal, and advantageous [12:52]
mircea_popescu quite. [12:52]
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ascii_butugychag incidentally there was a ragged black fella preaching about 9/11 inside job [12:52]
ascii_butugychag and usg spreading aids, chemtrails, etc. [12:53]
ascii_butugychag enjoyed a good hour of this [12:53]
mircea_popescu but he wasn't the conductor. [12:53]
ascii_butugychag no conductor [12:53]
ascii_butugychag 'don't believe me?!! look what's happening to yer greenbacks!!!111' [12:54]
ascii_butugychag -- direct quote [12:54]
mircea_popescu "Million Mask March: Many younger sovereigns are fascinated with ideas of a youth revolution, anarchy, and hacktivism (a portmanteau of hack and activism,) even though the majority of them are not particularly computer savvy. They often call themselves Anonymous and wear the mask and costume of the central character in the movie V for Vendetta." [12:54]
mircea_popescu this is pretty lulzy. [12:54]
ascii_butugychag ^ old nyooz ? [12:54]
mircea_popescu aha. [12:54]
copypaste Anonymous are (rightfully) viewed as losers, or USG themselves, by most thinking people [12:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29811 @ 0.00050889 = 15.1705 BTC [+] {3} [12:55]
ascii_butugychag cult film, what canyoudo [12:55]
mircea_popescu "A few take it one step further by initiating violence in hopes of acting as a catalyst for this war. Timothy McVeigh’s goals, for example, weren’t just to murder 168 people, bring down a symbolic building, and punish the government for its role in the standoffs at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He wanted to make his mark in history by providing the Patriot movement with the spark that would light the fires of revolution. [12:55]
mircea_popescu Ironically, the Sovereign movement is made up of highly paranoid people who tend to believe that every violent act in recent history is a “false flag” operation set in motion by the evil government, so the odds of such an event triggering a Revolution are quite slim." [12:55]
shinohai Anons lel [12:55]
mircea_popescu lulzy. [12:55]
ascii_butugychag where was this [12:56]
mircea_popescu earlier linked piece, random derpage. [12:57]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 12:44:25; punkman: [12:57]
ascii_butugychag sovereigns ?!! [12:59]
mircea_popescu incidentally, i finally got to the bottom of the shocking absence of anyone but caucasians from argentina (it is, literally, the whitest place on earth, up there with romania and i guess montana) [12:59]
mircea_popescu older folk explained it to me. back when they had their various wars, they confronted paraguayans at some point, and managed to sell the slaves on the theory that black men make the best warrirors for which reason they must take the first lines. [13:00]
mircea_popescu "y los paraguashos los mataron todos!" [13:00]
mircea_popescu i suspect that as the century-old (and probably more grounded) view of black people as naturally cowardly and militarily worthless gives way to this purely symbolic "black is the new manhood", extermination approaches. [13:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26650 @ 0.00050953 = 13.579 BTC [+] [13:02]
ascii_butugychag aha, only black fella i saw in b-a was a pilot [13:02]
mircea_popescu some limited immigration was permitted of ex spanish african colonies [13:03]
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mircea_popescu but it mostly provides street vendors, and i'd be surprised if it makes up that many ppm. [13:03]
mircea_popescu !up indiancandy1 [13:03]
-assbot- You voiced indiancandy1 for 30 minutes. [13:03]
* assbot gives voice to indiancandy1 [13:03]
indiancandy1 HEY GANG [13:04]
mircea_popescu bang! [13:04]
mod6 << this is an interesting idea. [13:08]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 14:13:52; mircea_popescu: lettuce see what trinque ben_vulpes mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov kakobrekla & co say when they wakeup [13:08]
mircea_popescu mod6 what'd be your definition/specificiation for the concept of sigil ? [13:09]
mod6 << I do have a usage guide and quick-start guide... but maybe more of whats needed is not a reference manual, but an overall concept paper. [13:09]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 15:40:42; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 had a pretty good guide to v [13:09]
mircea_popescu yeah. [13:09]
mircea_popescu so that people can correctly develop on top of a shared core [13:09]
mircea_popescu rather than you know... mess. [13:09]
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ascii_butugychag a sigil is a tuple of a seal & the thing-sealed. [13:10]
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* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [13:11]
shinohai !up ascii_butugychag [13:11]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:11]
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mircea_popescu i thought sigil was the name of keys in v. [13:12]
ascii_butugychag possibly [13:13]
ascii_butugychag i dun think i named them [13:13]
mircea_popescu right. [13:13]
ascii_butugychag but this is a good one. [13:13]
ascii_butugychag let's [13:13]
ascii_butugychag << complicated. v is deliberately unusable with 'fuzzy' flow [13:13]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 13:19:15; mircea_popescu: << more importantly, it's not clear to me portage is even useful anymore. since v i mean. [13:14]
mircea_popescu so atm, as a working theory : the correct working of the nosuchdns script would be a) look in sigils directory and build list of sigils ; b) look in repository (where ?) for what's signed by the sigils ; c) create a sort -u list of the aformenentioned and dump it in hosts as > ratrher thjan >> ? [13:14]
ascii_butugychag (e.g., you don't know EXACTLY bitwise what you want at a step) [13:14]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 what'd be your definition/specificiation for the concept of sigil ? << by definition, for me its a cryptographic signature (embossment) of a given input. [13:14]
mircea_popescu mod6 so then what's a seal ? [13:14]
mircea_popescu do sigils produce seals or do seals produce sigils. [13:14]
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ascii_butugychag let's sigils produce seals! [13:14]
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ascii_butugychag this is the proper meaning. [13:14]
mircea_popescu i thought so too. [13:15]
mod6 ah, to me that's what i took 'sigil' to mean, 'a seal'. I may misunderstand the language. [13:15]
ascii_butugychag sigil =~= rsa modulus [13:15]
ascii_butugychag seal ~= rsa modular exponentiant. [13:15]
ascii_butugychag (at least for now, at some point folks might start using lattice or even, fuck, lamport signatures) [13:15]
mircea_popescu maybe in 2017. [13:15]
ascii_butugychag (for n00bz: lamport signature is to signing approx. what otp is to encipherment) [13:17]
mircea_popescu rather approx. [13:19]
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mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag what about this fuzzy flow ? [13:20]
ascii_butugychag approx same pain [13:20]
ascii_butugychag but less gain. [13:20]
mircea_popescu huh ? [13:20]
mircea_popescu oh oh. yeah, re lamport. [13:20]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: as for 'portage', think about it [13:20]
mircea_popescu i am. [13:21]
mircea_popescu do tell ? [13:21]
ascii_butugychag the port tree does not specify the exact hash of executable built at each point [13:21]
ascii_butugychag because nobody has a deterministic builder [13:21]
mircea_popescu this simply means the port tree is curreently empty [13:21]
mircea_popescu and will have to be filled. [13:21]
ascii_butugychag it had, iirc, some (spotty) support for pgp [13:21]
ascii_butugychag but nothing that would add up to sanity [13:22]
mircea_popescu "smart people disagree because they do not share priors ; idiots disagree because they can't follow implications" [13:22]
ascii_butugychag first need deterministic buildatron. [13:22]
ascii_butugychag unfortunately this is not negotiable [13:22]
ascii_butugychag gotta have this x before you can even think about y-ing. [13:22]
ascii_butugychag and deterministic in the ~bitwise~ sense. [13:23]
ascii_butugychag as in, i build on nintendo, mircea_popescu on cray, we get same elf output so long as we asked for same target and used same src. [13:23]
ascii_butugychag all of the idiot indeterminate hiss on current boxes will have to go. [13:24]
ascii_butugychag (recall when we diffed rotor builds ??) [13:25]
trinque ascii_butugychag: what did you think of my simply checking the hash at the end of a build target? [13:26]
trinque did it for downloads; trivial to do for a produced binary as well [13:26]
ascii_butugychag as i said, [13:26]
ascii_butugychag no, not trivial. [13:26]
ascii_butugychag because gcc is full of shit [13:26]
ascii_butugychag it shits out system-specific crud into the build. [13:27]
ascii_butugychag try it. [13:27]
trinque sure, trivial to check is all [13:27]
ascii_butugychag CHECK is useless [13:27]
ascii_butugychag needs to DIE [13:27]
trinque mkay, how are you going to get gcc shitting consistently then? [13:27]
ascii_butugychag for so long as the crud gets put there, you don't have deterministic build [13:27]
ascii_butugychag you 1) patch gcc [13:27]
trinque sure, I don't disagree [13:27]
ascii_butugychag 2) make sure src is EXACTLY SAME on all boxes. [13:27]
ascii_butugychag not same binary? won't hash correctly, flow graph cannot proceed. [13:28]
* trinque slaps his forehead [13:28]
trinque yes, having a make target fail when a hash fails is a good idea [13:28]
ascii_butugychag you can think of this idea as a more fascist version of 'make' [13:28]
trinque my makefiles do that [13:28]
trinque moves the built target out of the way if it fails [13:29]
trinque was easy [13:29]
ascii_butugychag presently, 'make' only cares that a particular file name comes to exist [13:29]
trinque read teh include, does precisely what you're saying [13:29]
trinque "CHECK_OR_DIE" [13:29]
ascii_butugychag but i was discussing a hypothetical v-tronic variant of 'portage' [13:29]
trinque yep, would that not be a tree of v-patches on a tree of makefiles? [13:30]
ascii_butugychag the thing to understand is that we are doing something quite analogous to the invention of... SANITATION. [13:30]
trinque could reinvent the makefile like "ebuild" or w/e, still a makefile [13:30]
mircea_popescu "CHECK_OR_DIE" << word. [13:32]
* mircea_popescu liked that [13:32]
* assbot removes voice from indiancandy1 [13:33]
mircea_popescu "By the end of April, the couple was completely broke, unemployed, and effectively exiled from a community they had given up everything to join. Jerad reached out to some of the other local voices in the movement, but found that most such activists were big on words, minimal on action, and did little more than post anti-government pictures and rants on the Internet." [13:34]
mircea_popescu am i the only one who sees this eerily reminiscent of "bitcoin nodes" situation ? [13:34]
ascii_butugychag wai wut [13:34]
ascii_butugychag the pestilence of faux nodez? [13:35]
mircea_popescu yup [13:35]
mircea_popescu until and unless you ban the blooming idiots, your copshootings take forever to propagate [13:35]
ascii_butugychag speaking of which - anybody else try my malleus mikehearnificarum ? [13:35]
mircea_popescu once you do, it's simultaneous. [13:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00050992 = 1.8357 BTC [+] {2} [13:36]
mircea_popescu “This cop needs to be shot and then displayed for all others to see. Time to let these Nazi thugs who really runs the show here in this country. We need to string all of them up and make an example for the next generation that these acts will not be tolerated. They answer to us, not the other way around. Time we start asking the hard questions and lay the hammer down on those who truly deserve it.” Jerad Miller, M [13:37]
mircea_popescu ay 7, 2014 [13:37]
copypaste where does this quote come from? [13:38]
mircea_popescu this 31 yo guy who together with his 22 yo wife shot a coupla cops and then got killed. [13:39]
copypaste ah, i meant the first one, my client was scrolled up [13:39]
copypaste By the end of April... [13:39]
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mircea_popescu [13:40]
mircea_popescu some obscure usg outlet. [13:40]
mircea_popescu "Examples of recent activity [13:42]
mircea_popescu September 9, 2014 – Eric Frein, an anti-government survivalist, is currently a fugitive wanted for shooting two Pennsylvania State troopers in an ambush, killing one and wounding the other. According to the State Police Commissioner, Frein had talked about committing mass murder in addition to killing officers. He was recently added to the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted list. General Anti-government [13:42]
mircea_popescu August 12, 2014 — Armed with an AK-47, ammunition, and propane canisters, Douglas Lee Leguin set a fire, then called 911 to report it. When Texas officers and firemen responded to the call, he shot at them in order to bring attention to his political complaints. Sovereign Citizen" [13:42]
BingoBoingo << Oh no jurov, the people are addicted to NOT having sugar. [13:42]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 13:12:42; jurov: They will laugh at you back with your cravings of sugar. [13:42]
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mircea_popescu ironically... i believe if one were to add up the number of usg agent deaths as evident from prosecution attempts, and then compare that figure with the number of usg agent deaths as reported by the usg for various statistical purposes, a 10:1 difference wouldn't even be surprising. [13:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8441 @ 0.00050414 = 4.2554 BTC [-] {2} [13:44]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [13:44]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [13:44]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:44]
ascii_butugychag re: earlier thread: for historian types such as pete_dushenski: << my original source for concept in 'v' [13:44]
assbot Logged on 15-11-2014 00:27:45; asciilifeform: there was a three-man system [13:44]
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mircea_popescu will come in handy once we actually have / can afford three men working on any one thing. [13:45]
ascii_butugychag << this could almost literally be a quote from that fella on the train this morning [13:45]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 16:35:36; mircea_popescu: “This cop needs to be shot and then displayed for all others to see. Time to let these Nazi thugs who really runs the show here in this country. We need to string all of them up and make an example for the next generation that these acts will not be tolerated. They answer to us, not the other way around. Time we start asking the hard questions and lay the hammer down on those who trul [13:45]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag or, for that matter, from me. [13:46]
ascii_butugychag the emphasis on local police is intensely usgtronic, however. [13:48]
ascii_butugychag !s gendarmerie [13:48]
assbot 28 results for 'gendarmerie' : [13:48]
mircea_popescu not so. you're wrong in this reading, and the usg itself very clearly proves they understand this (for instance in their attempts to hide behind the tired local sheriff dioscussed on qntra) [13:48]
mircea_popescu it would be a forced mistake for this gendarmerie to appear. and forced it must be. [13:49]
ascii_butugychag local police are all that presently stand between average u.s. pgp user and a dhs torture chamber. [13:49]
mircea_popescu i do not believe so. [13:49]
ascii_butugychag (in the aggregate, rather than the particular.) [13:49]
mircea_popescu local police is what currently stand between random acts of violence and the us president being raped on camera. [13:49]
ascii_butugychag consider brazil. [13:49]
mircea_popescu and while i have no particular taste for violence, i do wish to see obama, or his successor, raped on camera. [13:50]
mircea_popescu what of brazil ? [13:50]
ascii_butugychag chaos in the precincts, no presidential rape on camera ? [13:50]
mircea_popescu orly. [13:50]
ascii_butugychag afaik. [13:50]
mircea_popescu we don't agree on this point. [13:50]
ascii_butugychag which? the chaos? or br still having an unraped pres [13:50]
mircea_popescu i don't agree that brazil works as an example for your purpose. [13:52]
mircea_popescu but be that as it may : as the oathkeepers article derrided here yest nevertheless correctly points out: other people's problems,. to be resolved by those self-same other people. [13:52]
ascii_butugychag how else. [13:52]
BingoBoingo PeterL: I guess it can wait. I just like how somethign so cool has such an onomatapeia [13:52]
ascii_butugychag not by martians, no. [13:53]
mircea_popescu and mexico makes for a much better example, in that direction. [13:53]
ascii_butugychag how's that [13:54]
BingoBoingo !up PeterL [13:54]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [13:54]
PeterL BingoBoingo, I don't particularly want to go FOOF myself [13:54]
PeterL seems like a nasty chemical to work with [13:54]
BingoBoingo Ah, I see [13:54]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag numerous examples of pretorian guard heads that thought going with the usg is safe beheaded. [13:55]
ascii_butugychag by the next usg stooge, aha [13:55]
mircea_popescu mno. [13:55]
ascii_butugychag re: malleus thread: did mircea_popescu ever write an article about the error of 'postel's law' ? [13:56]
mircea_popescu and i specifically discuss the president rather than the "mayor of the palace" because really, having dagobert cut to pieces in the public place is a worse stigma on the obnoxious pepin than actually shortening him a head more would have been. [13:57]
ascii_butugychag after the successful test of malleus h., i've been tempted to write one [13:57]
ascii_butugychag looked for old work, found only this - [13:57]
mircea_popescu please do. if i did it'd be fragmentary and so on [13:57]
assbot The Robustness Principle Reconsidered - ACM Queue ... ( ) [13:57]
PeterL I have had a reactor make a foof sound as it lit fire, not a pleasant experience (and that was just a simple combustion of THF, nothing explosive) [13:57]
ascii_butugychag for n00bz, 'postel's law' went something like 'be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept.' [13:58]
ascii_butugychag it has the smell of good engineering and thereby became enshrined in the old canon [13:59]
ascii_butugychag but leads to tremendous ecological catastrophe [14:00]
ascii_butugychag (in the genuine sense of the word) [14:00]
mircea_popescu write the article. i'll read, and if need comment! [14:00]
BingoBoingo PeterL: Well, maybe this is a job for the indians or Chicoms [14:02]
ascii_butugychag << related [14:02]
ascii_butugychag specifically y. kreinin's text, [14:03]
ascii_butugychag 'How many problems did you have with hardware compared to OS compared to end-user apps? According to most evidence I got, JavaScript does whatever the hell it wants at each browser. Hardware is not like that. CPUs from the same breed will run the user-level instructions identically or get off the market. Memory-mapped devices following a hardware protocol for talking to the bus will actually follow it, damn it, or ge [14:03]
ascii_butugychag 'Low-level things are likely to work correctly since there’s tremendous pressure for them to do so. Because otherwise, all the higher-level stuff will collapse, and everybody will go “AAAAAAAAAA!!”' [14:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5277 @ 0.00051018 = 2.6922 BTC [+] {2} [14:04]
ascii_butugychag the few precious things that ACTUALLY WORK, consistently, every time - your cpu's adder, the bus, etc. SHIT on postel. [14:04]
ascii_butugychag by being ~extremely~ tight, and, importantly, well-specified, in what input they accept. [14:05]
PeterL garbag in, garbage out [14:05]
mircea_popescu your definition of "actually work" is different from HIS definition of "Actually work". [14:05]
mircea_popescu consider unpnp, it is the best example. [14:05]
mircea_popescu does bitcoin "actually work" with or without it ? [14:05]
ascii_butugychag there was a time when alu worked the way upnp 'works' [14:05]
ascii_butugychag know when? [14:05]
ascii_butugychag when 'computer' was a... job description [14:05]
ascii_butugychag and gurlz sat with abacus [14:06]
ascii_butugychag gurl hung over? wrong numbers come out [14:06]
mircea_popescu and an important thing to point out is also the b-a model. [14:06]
ascii_butugychag which is how babbage got his gig [14:06]
mircea_popescu #b-a is EXTREMELY liberal in what it accepts, and extremely conservative in who it accepts it from. [14:06]
mircea_popescu this happens to be how sexuate reproduction works, also, which makes me suspect it's a peak behaviour. [14:06]
ascii_butugychag this works for knights of the round table, but not so much for menial mechanics [14:07]
mircea_popescu and you know this how and wherefore. [14:07]
mircea_popescu cunt is mechanics. [14:07]
mircea_popescu !s cunt runs on perl [14:07]
assbot 0 results for 'cunt runs on perl' : [14:07]
ascii_butugychag 'assembly line with phds' [14:07]
mircea_popescu he BULLSHIT [14:07]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag nope. there isn't a person in every cunt, yet they all work. [14:07]
ascii_butugychag depends what means 'work' [14:08]
ascii_butugychag produce shaved apes fairly reliably, sure [14:08]
ascii_butugychag and the abacus gurlz produced... numbers!111 reliably. [14:08]
ascii_butugychag just not necessarily the ones you want. [14:08]
ascii_butugychag that's the whole notion of a mechanism - that it does something quite specific, in a quite-specific way, that is defined in advance [14:09]
mircea_popescu perhaps. [14:09]
mircea_popescu this looks to me like a large cave, actually. [14:09]
ascii_butugychag hm? [14:10]
mircea_popescu !rate copypaste 1 HotWheels / 8chan guy [14:10]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [14:10]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.copypaste.1:900d82e7c59245e329102c53b146c1d58cddb571df4cc512b93fdab831b55a4a [14:11]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for copypaste with note: HotWheels / 8chan guy [14:11]
copypaste thought you guys might get a kick out of this. i'm reading a highly contested law where i live (philippines) [14:11]
copypaste this is part of it [14:11]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag this thing, that we were discussing. seems to me to make the echo sounds typical of a huge cave, even if we only found a little hole. [14:11]
copypaste [14:11]
assbot Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( ) [14:11]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: dan mocsny had a spiffy essay on man and mechanism in this sense, but afaik it is lost to history [14:11]
ascii_butugychag (google nuked it) [14:12]
mircea_popescu copypaste dpaste al;ways better for text. and do you kno what deedbot is ? [14:12]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag heh. [14:12]
copypaste it's a PDF, and it was made by Pinoys, so of course it doesn't copy right [14:12]
copypaste that's what i tried first, but it got all misformatted [14:12]
mircea_popescu pdf must die already omfg. [14:13]
ascii_butugychag mocsny had examples, e.g., man takes 'viagra', turning cock into a mechanism, in the sense that you walk into a forest and are not content to sit on ~any~ old surface, if you are there long enough you start making chairs, polishing the wood, etc [14:13]
ascii_butugychag mechanisms. [14:13]
ascii_butugychag rather than natural crud as-found. [14:13]
copypaste mircea_popescu: here's how Okular (KDE PDF client) interpreted it: [14:13]
assbot dpaste: 1GY12RN ... ( ) [14:13]
copypaste i have no idea how they managed that. [14:13]
ascii_butugychag pdf can die when i can type in integral sign and not have it EVER pagebroken. [14:14]
ascii_butugychag then and not before. [14:14]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:14]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> pdf must die already omfg. << yes. [14:14]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [14:16]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:16]
ascii_butugychag i have yet to see a pill against pdf proposed here that doesn't reduce to mircea_popescu's broomstick. [14:17]
* indiancandy1 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [14:18]
ascii_butugychag i own a printer. and i intend to keep owning a printer. i like paper. and i don't ever want to see a motherfucking pagebreak in the middle of an equation. [14:18]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag what "page" [14:18]
ascii_butugychag page. [14:18]
ascii_butugychag of dead wood. [14:18]
mircea_popescu eh quit smoking. [14:18]
mircea_popescu it's good for the environment and ok for you. [14:18]
ascii_butugychag eh make me a 1200 dpi screen then [14:19]
ascii_butugychag and i'll begin to think about it [14:19]
copypaste e-ink eschews the need for real paper [14:19]
ascii_butugychag copypaste: tops out at 300 dpi or so [14:19]
ascii_butugychag and no colour. [14:19]
mod6 i like ascii txt [14:20]
mircea_popescu mkay, do what i did back before i had a dirigible : [14:20]
* ascii_butugychag has owned possibly every e-ink toy on the market [14:20]
mircea_popescu have your dad steal some fucking listing paper already! [14:20]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i own a gigantic crate [14:20]
mircea_popescu this "page" nonsense is related to written matter like excel spreadsheets are related to business [14:20]
ascii_butugychag but matrix printer tops out at 100 or so dpi. [14:20]
ascii_butugychag and looks like shit [14:20]
mircea_popescu keep your stuff as rolls like god & newton intended [14:20]
ascii_butugychag y'know, rolls still have a horizontal width. [14:22]
ascii_butugychag that is fixed. [14:22]
* Guest72952 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:22]
trinque CSS has a "don't pagebreak this when printed" [14:23]
ascii_butugychag and if 'this' exceeds the pixel count of the page ? [14:23]
ascii_butugychag ever read knuth's tex book ? [14:24]
ascii_butugychag or at least understand why tex is complicated ? [14:24]
* assbot removes voice from PeterL [14:24]
trinque you're asking if it can scale things down to fit the page? [14:24]
trinque no, I have not read a book on tex [14:24]
copypaste CSS has many rules, what matters is how they're implemented. [14:25]
copypaste still exists - in theory. [14:25]
trinque page-break-inside has pretty wide support [14:25]
ascii_butugychag scaling down pixelwise is idiocy if it results in an equation where i cannot read the sub- and superscripts, say. [14:25]
trinque so we use our brains and wrap whatever you don't want broken in a box with the above CSS [14:26]
ascii_butugychag trinque: i have yet to see even a sane implementation of, e.g., mathml. [14:26]
* trinque is merely making the humble claim that HTML > PDF [14:26]
ascii_butugychag and i am NOT interested in equations-as-bitmaps! [14:26]
ascii_butugychag because that is idiocy [14:26]
ascii_butugychag gotta be searchable, cut&pastable, etc. [14:26]
ascii_butugychag first-class citizens. [14:27]
trinque reasonable. [14:27]
ascii_butugychag and presently only achieved in pdf. [14:27]
ascii_butugychag (or rather, postscript, pdf is merely ps rebranded) [14:27]
ascii_butugychag ps is a 1980s thing, and was invented for perfectly valid reasons, the malicious bugginess of crapobat etc. are not inherent in it. [14:27]
mircea_popescu !up Guest72952 [14:28]
-assbot- You voiced Guest72952 for 30 minutes. [14:28]
* assbot gives voice to Guest72952 [14:28]
Guest72952 dude [14:28]
Guest72952 ur chatroom robbed my name [14:28]
Guest72952 im hurt [14:28]
mircea_popescu what name ? [14:28]
Guest72952 i went to eat [14:28]
Guest72952 indiancandy1 [14:28]
mircea_popescu still exists - in theory. << in practice. even used on trilema. [14:29]
copypaste no, just in theory. all the widely used implementations have dropped it, at least by default [14:29]
ascii_butugychag does anyone recall emma goldman's famous words re: dancing & the revolution? [14:29]
copypaste probably exists on trilema, but nobody notices it, more than likely [14:29]
copypaste except the odd reader using IE6 of course! [14:29]
mircea_popescu and presently only achieved in pdf. << have you lost it, man ?! what of pdf is searchable, cut/paster able etc ? [14:29]
ascii_butugychag 'if i cannot dance, i want nothing to do with your revolution' [14:29]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: pdf crapped out by latex is all of these ! [14:30]
ascii_butugychag it is ~allowed for~ by the format [14:30]
mircea_popescu not what we're discussing here! [14:30]
mircea_popescu would it please you if i said adobe must die ? [14:30]
ascii_butugychag yes. [14:30]
mircea_popescu aite. [14:30]
ascii_butugychag but iirc mircea_popescu is allergic to the whole notion of vector graphics for-printer [14:30]
ascii_butugychag which always struck me as quite broomsticky [14:31]
mircea_popescu i'm allergic at the notion of being fed it. i'm niot a printer. [14:31]
mircea_popescu just like i'm not interested in binary blob "signed" text. [14:31]
ascii_butugychag be fed baudot over smoke signal if you go in for that [14:31]
ascii_butugychag everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it [14:32]
trinque how bout math in ascii sexps? [14:32]
ascii_butugychag trinque: again, rendered how [14:32]
trinque plain text [14:32]
ascii_butugychag i'm all for latex-like animal in sexp representation [14:32]
ascii_butugychag but i have no interest in READING it with naked eye!! [14:33]
trinque no, why the insane notation at all [14:33]
mircea_popescu quick test : does blink for anyone but me ? [14:33]
assbot Sa muare haterii mei (doi) on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [14:33]
trinque wasn't the original purpose of the sexp *this* ? [14:33]
ascii_butugychag trinque: absolutely motherfucking not [14:33]
ascii_butugychag not even mccarthy wanted to LOOK at sexps with eyes! [14:33]
mircea_popescu how bout math in ascii sexps? << pretty much the only known solution to his problem [14:33]
ascii_butugychag they were meant as an intermediate representation [14:33]
mircea_popescu it's of course "counterintuitive" to she-brains [14:33]
trinque wat [14:33]
ascii_butugychag to be rendered by machine into a preferred form [14:33]
ascii_butugychag yes [14:33]
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ascii_butugychag read 'lisp-1' paper. [14:33]
mircea_popescu !up ozymandias_ [14:33]
-assbot- You voiced ozymandias_ for 30 minutes. [14:33]
ascii_butugychag by john m. [14:33]
* assbot gives voice to ozymandias_ [14:33]
ozymandias_ If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution. [14:34]
mircea_popescu why can;t you dance ? [14:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31900 @ 0.00050698 = 16.1727 BTC [-] [14:34]
mircea_popescu everything you see is 'binary blob', you just happen to own a convenient interpreter for it << one. ONE. [14:35]
mircea_popescu there shall not be any more. and sure as fuck not infinity. [14:35]
mircea_popescu there may be exactly one. [14:35]
ascii_butugychag if i can't read, say, WITHOUT ANY degradation in quality, searchability, without superfluous page breaks or line breaks, 'can't dance' [14:35]
assbot ... ( ) [14:35]
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mircea_popescu you can't dance anyway. i was asking the ozy nboob [14:36]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: mno. you are, for instance, using irc client, which is not same as telnet, isn't showing you (or making you manually type in) the PING and PONG, say [14:36]
mircea_popescu hey ascii_butugychag are those graphs pngs ? hm ? HM ? [14:36]
ascii_butugychag so there is sure as hell more than one renderer. [14:36]
mircea_popescu you lose. [14:36]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: whatcha talking about, the text is selectable [14:37]
ascii_butugychag in those graphs. [14:37]
mircea_popescu the text is, yes. [14:37]
mircea_popescu BUT THE GRAPHS THEMSELVES [14:37]
mircea_popescu are not. [14:37]
mircea_popescu i see no indication as to how the arrows go. [14:37]
mircea_popescu suppose i want the circles filled in red. what now ? [14:37]
mircea_popescu how do i SEARCH for "arrow pointing like this" ? hm ? [14:38]
mircea_popescu learn to alphabet already, ya buncha "visual thinker" illiterate louts! [14:38]
ascii_butugychag i agree, whole thing oughta be a sexpr underneath [14:38]
ascii_butugychag where you ~could~ search for 'red arrows' etc [14:38]
mircea_popescu heh. [14:38]
ascii_butugychag but UNDERNEATH. [14:38]
ascii_butugychag 'i wanna hug a gurl not a set of loose guts' [14:38]
trinque why is sexp such a good representation for programming but not math [14:39]
ascii_butugychag trinque: it is a good representation for directly manipulating ast [14:39]
ascii_butugychag this is rather like asking why a heap of guts is the correct interface for a surgeon but not a lover ! [14:39]
trinque that statement does not make any argument for why the seemingly arbitrary syntax of mathematics is good [14:40]
ascii_butugychag for ~authoring~ maths - absolutely, gimme sexpr. [14:40]
trinque and applies as easily to C++ or any other hell [14:40]
ascii_butugychag trinque: because it is compact. [14:40]
ascii_butugychag and i don't always like the notation.; [14:40]
ascii_butugychag but a 1 line equation beats two pages of ascii crud. [14:41]
* assbot gives voice to guruvan [14:41]
guruvan what's going on guise? [14:41]
trinque ascii_butugychag: there is python (or cursed rubby) which is "more compact" like your equation, yet I prefer lisp [14:42]
trinque why? [14:42]
ascii_butugychag and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every time !111 [14:42]
ascii_butugychag trinque: compact at a price [14:43]
trinque this is why urbit did those glyphs or whatever they called them [14:43]
trinque why write "if" when you can ?!? or w/e [14:43]
ascii_butugychag now that's garbage. [14:43]
ascii_butugychag just like perl is. [14:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41650 @ 0.00050414 = 20.9974 BTC [-] [14:44]
mircea_popescu nothing much guruvan, some tweet of yours got linked [14:44]
ascii_butugychag people who ~live and die~ by motherfucking compact equations, ALWAYS invent hieroglyphs [14:44]
guruvan saw that - can hadly believe it's been so long since I've been in here [14:44]
ascii_butugychag just like mechanic buys a hammer and NOT a brick. [14:44]
mircea_popescu just like everyone tickles the woman in random way in private. this is math porn what you're proposing. [14:45]
guruvan I see you guys still remember how bitcoin works :) [14:46]
ascii_butugychag find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this. [14:46]
mircea_popescu possibly the only group left. there's been some sort of strange deluge or something. [14:46]
ascii_butugychag who wants to use motherfucking words [14:46]
ascii_butugychag as if it were euclid's greece [14:46]
mircea_popescu hey, euclid's greece did alright. [14:46]
ascii_butugychag mno. [14:46]
ascii_butugychag that tower only gets so-high. [14:47]
mircea_popescu find me actual working programmers that want to use static linked binaries. like it were 1970s MIT! [14:47]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:47]
trinque still no reason put why using words and sexps is a good thing in programming, a bad thing in mathematics [14:47]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [14:47]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [14:47]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:47]
mircea_popescu "that tower only gets so high!" [14:47]
ascii_butugychag trinque: a good and necessary thing in mathematics. but i don't want to view them with eyes! [14:47]
trinque give a reason! lol [14:47]
ascii_butugychag because 1-line equation can be 4 pages of sexp ??? [14:48]
mircea_popescu let's make it plain : the forum language will be alphabetic, not hieroglyphic. how you paint the meaning from the letters into little icons in your own livingroom - your problem. [14:48]
mircea_popescu but i do not wish to see them, pray with them, and so following. [14:48]
ascii_butugychag then forum doesn't do maths. [14:48]
mircea_popescu the forum is whenever one talks to another publicly. [14:49]
trinque "because." [14:49]
mircea_popescu if you're not fucking, you're in the forum. [14:49]
ascii_butugychag and i notice that mircea_popescu links to bitmaps of gurlz, not homeric descriptions in 10,000 words... [14:49]
mircea_popescu zing. [14:50]
mod6 hawtbutts.txt [14:50]
mircea_popescu quick test : does blink for anyone but me ? << lemme reiterate [14:50]
assbot Sa muare haterii mei (doi) on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [14:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38569 @ 0.00050657 = 19.5379 BTC [+] {2} [14:51]
trinque if a guy were trying to understand the rationale behind using dense symbols in mathematics from this conversation, he would fail. [14:51]
BingoBoingo Assorted things [14:54]
assbot Butters now Supposed to run full nodes to use lite wallets : Buttcoin ... ( ) [14:54]
mircea_popescu trinque yet the explanation is very simple : a certain set of brain circuitry is deeply involved in novel thought (about everything, including mathematics) and at the same time refractary to structure. [14:54]
mircea_popescu generally people trying to think in this particular sense try and dope it. [14:54]
* assbot removes voice from Guest72952 [14:58]
mircea_popescu such as by using structureless or poorly structured "symbols". [14:59]
mircea_popescu this, obviously, is anathema to communication. [14:59]
trinque aha, seemed entirely psychological. "the mysterious symbols of the world of mathematics! greek letters even!" [15:00]
mircea_popescu it is also fundamentally why math "is hard". for every non-retarded young adult who believes math is hard you have a case of a child who developed his own, highly personal set of shitty symbols, and then never received a good explanation as to what the difference between his and "everyone else"'s is, so got lost. [15:00]
mircea_popescu because, obviously, the problem of translating between sets is untractable. [15:00]
mircea_popescu the problems people encounter with statistics are probably the most obvious place to study this issue. [15:01]
BingoBoingo Apparently social media is talking about asciilifeform's Malleum patch when they were largely afraid to discuss qntra on Oregon [15:01]
assbot Cyril Blanc on Twitter: "@MrChrisEllis @dnivi3 @PQMerkle" ... ( ) [15:01]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo prolly a good time to link [15:02]
assbot ... ( ) [15:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00050414 = 1.6637 BTC [-] {2} [15:05]
* ascii_butugychag has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [15:05]
guruvan BingoBoingo: classic - banning light clients is now censorship - I'll let who I like connect to my nodes tyvfm [15:09]
BingoBoingo Seriously, what part of "MINE!!!1111!!!" don't people understand. Fucking socialism. [15:12]
* Guest72952 has quit (Quit: Leaving) [15:13]
BingoBoingo Anyways guruvan I'm glad you stopped by. Keep coming back, it works when you work it. [15:15]
phf pdf is ~plaintext~ container format that lets you encode an hierarchical structure of nodes of type. there's a handful of standard node types geared towards fixed page layout. there's also a handful of types that let you embed content, i.e. inline a binary blob <>stream....10 bytes....endstream. latex produces pdfs with intimate awareness of the format's abilities, i.e. sensible plain text nodes that [15:19]
phf annotate visual layout nodes with semantically meaningful components (pages, paragraphs, etc.) [15:19]
guruvan thanks BingoBoingo - will be around more this year :) - it's gonna be a crazy year [15:19]
* ascii_butugychag (a211d01a@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:19]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [15:20]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [15:20]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [15:20]
phf but of course there's tons of companies that have some variation of "breakup my text into individual pictures of letters with precise x/y positioning, for extra points place the nodes in a random order so that tools like pdftotext barf" [15:20]
BingoBoingo guruvan: Seriously. Wasn't much to do in 2015 except lay groundwork for 2016 [15:20]
ascii_butugychag << abuse is no argument. mechanic can bash in skull with wrench. does not follow that wrench ought to be soft. [15:20]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 17:57:01; mircea_popescu: such as by using structureless or poorly structured "symbols". [15:20]
mircea_popescu and speaking of what of ? [15:21]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 17:44:07; ascii_butugychag: find me an actual working, practicing maths pro who disagrees with me on this. [15:21]
assbot 1 results for 'let me formalize from:mircea' - #bitcoin-assets search [15:21]
ascii_butugychag will take my maximally-compact notations from my cold, dead hands. [15:21]
guruvan agreed BingoBoingo - it was a long year of much work, and much that's just been tossed by the end of it too [15:21]
mircea_popescu what, do i not count ? is systems theory not math ? [15:21]
mircea_popescu i'll tell you that i do prefer spellking out "sum x over y for i to j" than squiggling it up. heck, i have the girls read out bash commands explaining what they do. [15:21]
mircea_popescu and etc. [15:21]
ascii_butugychag philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized) [15:22]
mircea_popescu heh. [15:22]
mircea_popescu and we come back to the same "bad math" problem : [15:22]
mircea_popescu this "notationed" math is ALSO not math that's been mechanised. [15:22]
mircea_popescu it's just been shittified. [15:22]
ascii_butugychag and yes, e.g., maxwell's equations stated verbally might be more pleasing to a n00b [15:22]
ascii_butugychag but DEATH to somebody who needs to formally ~manipulate~ them. [15:23]
ascii_butugychag and needs to hold a MAXIMUM of thought from the page in his head [15:23]
mircea_popescu i never had a problem. [15:23]
mircea_popescu as we speak i hold all the pages i hold anyway. [15:23]
phf presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a tool of thought" paper in principle [15:24]
BingoBoingo philosophy. (not a dirty word, just maths that haven't been mechanized) << Prolly hard to mechanize "Fear and Trembling" [15:24]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu doesn't do mathematics, this is evident. perhaps he did at one point, but not now. [15:24]
ascii_butugychag what other notational element, i wonder, would he have us give up? matrix ? [15:24]
ascii_butugychag verbalize the elements? [15:24]
ascii_butugychag let's have verbal quaternion ? [15:25]
mircea_popescu which part of what i said dja actually disagree with ? [15:25]
ascii_butugychag the 'notation as obscurantist claptrap' [15:25]
mircea_popescu is this a symbol ? [15:25]
ascii_butugychag which this [15:26]
mircea_popescu 'notation as obscurantist claptrap' [15:26]
mircea_popescu why not use पॢ, i wonder. [15:27]
ascii_butugychag because it saves no space/time. [15:28]
ascii_butugychag because we did not have any reason to agree on the hieroglyph. [15:28]
BingoBoingo [15:28]
assbot How Nvidia breaks Chrome Incognito | charliehorse55 ... ( ) [15:29]
mircea_popescu if im stuck with reading some "maximum thought" concoction i have to spell it out and read it anyway. [15:29]
mircea_popescu now : i do not propose that this is either better, or obligatory for anyone else. whoever can fuck whatever bottle they most like. but i also can't let stand this theory that somehow obscurantist claptrap is the only way to think. [15:29]
mircea_popescu one can think just fine in an alphabet, no need to play the egyptian priest. [15:30]
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ascii_butugychag as if using longhand made text somehow magically comprehensible to all and unpriestlike. [15:30]
ascii_butugychag !s variety speak [15:30]
assbot 57 results for 'variety speak' : [15:30]
mircea_popescu alphabet has its advantages. [15:31]
mircea_popescu unrelated to content. [15:31]
ascii_butugychag also has its crippling limitations. [15:31]
mircea_popescu that part's still in dispute. [15:31]
BingoBoingo From the mines: "Page C3 of today's NYT in print: "It's a good time to be David Bowie."" [15:31]
* PeterL is now known as PeterL_urk [15:32]
mircea_popescu presumably mp disagrees with iverson's "notation as a tool of thought" paper in principle << i do not. i do however disagree with the theory that tool is substitute sufficient. [15:35]
mircea_popescu yes you can figure out what quarks do in either matriceal or formulaic form. but if you can't afterwards SAY what the fuck you found to either heisenberg or schroedinger, the problem's in your head. [15:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00050697 = 2.8137 BTC [+] {2} [15:35]
phf ah [15:36]
mircea_popescu there's many things in this "thought" bag. [15:37]
phf that's like chinese math, transformation on formulas carried out mechanically by memorizing the book [15:37]
mircea_popescu it's one thing to figure something out. it's another thing to figure out what you figured out. and so on. [15:37]
mircea_popescu if you're lucky and enough work has been put on doing the transforms that a function was found. plenty of times the transformation's either not obviously or not at all formalizable. [15:38]
mircea_popescu i can if you wish pick a page of strings theory for you to transform into any other theoretical framweork of your choice. but might as well take a page of source from gcc and write the lisp. [15:39]
mircea_popescu which reminds me of our very own brave sir gabriel_laddel and his thing [15:39]
ben_vulpes is HOSTALIASES a thing on linuxen besides ubuntu? v-dns sounds nifty, but i'd like to maintain my own entries. [15:42]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes technically you could only put your own pubkey in there, and still let everyone else benefit from yours [15:43]
mircea_popescu while you only building your own. [15:43]
mircea_popescu anyway, afaik hostaliases is standaerd on all linuxen, but it runs into problems with sanitation, for things that run as root [15:45]
mircea_popescu such as ping or w/e [15:45]
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phf i've spent most of my college years learning math by sometimes translating problem into sexp and running it inside lisp, to get a hang of the numeric or combinatoric behavior of the problem. there were parts of the problem that were easier to grok in sexp and then there were parts that i eventually wrote an approximation of latex formula reader for. i don't really have a clear idea of where the boundry is though [15:47]
mircea_popescu importantly, the boundary must be where another begins and you end. [15:48]
mircea_popescu this "you gotta run the city in which i wrote the letter to read the letter" thing is for the birds. [15:48]
mircea_popescu i ain't building no cities to read anything, ever. [15:48]
phf so what do you do when not everything fits in head? [15:51]
mircea_popescu you restructure the abstraction tree, which is clearly broken. [15:52]
phf hmm [15:55]
mircea_popescu you'll note that variety speak or no variety speak, i can explain the whole thing or any part to anyone of any persuasion. that i may not feel like expending the effort for any random derp is true, but also not germane. [15:55]
mircea_popescu this, importantly, is not a feat of magic. [15:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27650 @ 0.00050413 = 13.9392 BTC [-] {3} [15:56]
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phf my impression of traditional education is that when everything doesn't fit in your head, you continue cramming it, until in the flash of insight, a way of restructuring the tree comes to you. in this case notation allows for a caching mechanism. somewhere on a blackboard there's a cluster of meaning, that you no longer have in your head, because head is full, so having that cluster contain higher density of information allows for a more [15:59]
phf rapid load [15:59]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [15:59]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [16:00]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [16:00]
ascii_butugychag << and rotor is..? [16:00]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 18:46:27; mircea_popescu: this "you gotta run the city in which i wrote the letter to read the letter" thing is for the birds. [16:00]
mircea_popescu phf to that the obvious counter is that sure, but before you've reached a point where you can actually speak of it... it's premature to speak of it ? [16:00]
ascii_butugychag << this is uncontroversial i think [16:00]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 18:33:28; mircea_popescu: yes you can figure out what quarks do in either matriceal or formulaic form. but if you can't afterwards SAY what the fuck you found to either heisenberg or schroedinger, the problem's in your head. [16:00]
ascii_butugychag << notation is very often a tool for pseudointellectual flimflammery, yes [16:01]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 18:36:12; mircea_popescu: if you're lucky and enough work has been put on doing the transforms that a function was found. plenty of times the transformation's either not obviously or not at all formalizable. [16:01]
ascii_butugychag but so is 'plain language.' [16:01]
mircea_popescu only to noobs. [16:01]
ascii_butugychag << aha! DERIVE ! [16:01]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 18:45:40; phf: i've spent most of my college years learning math by sometimes translating problem into sexp and running it inside lisp, to get a hang of the numeric or combinatoric behavior of the problem. there were parts of the problem that were easier to grok in sexp and then there were parts that i eventually wrote an approximation of latex formula reader for. i don't really have a clear idea of where the [16:01]
mircea_popescu and rotor is mechanized comunion, strangely enough. [16:01]
ascii_butugychag and macsyma is mega-spiffy, using it as we speak even [16:01]
phf mircea_popescu: aaah now i see what you mean by obscurantist claptrap [16:02]
mircea_popescu look at lacan's "work" to truly see what i mean, and look at all the junk coming out of the usg's 3rd generation to truly know what i mean [16:03]
mircea_popescu actually... lemme take a screenshot here. [16:03]
ascii_butugychag and i notice they aren't abusing integral signs [16:03]
ascii_butugychag (the climatologists and 'economics' - perhaps are) [16:03]
ascii_butugychag but in either case, a liver largely consisting of scar tissue is not an argument against having had a liver in the first place. [16:04]
mircea_popescu << there, consider that. [16:06]
assbot dpaste: 0A0WRTM ... ( ) [16:06]
mircea_popescu she has not actually anything to say to it. she;'s some 25 yo from nowhere who has figured out which side the butter's breaded on and is off to washington to live with alfie. [16:07]
mircea_popescu BUT if the symbol "activist" ran into any trouble... there's a newly minted "educator" symbol to the rescue. [16:07]
ascii_butugychag snorefest! [16:07]
mircea_popescu i don't think the postmodern symbological deluge has any sort of match or point of comparison. [16:07]
ascii_butugychag and yeah we have titanic dormitories full of these here [16:07]
mircea_popescu aha. [16:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00050815 = 19.3605 BTC [+] {5} [16:08]
mircea_popescu the only reason her bullshit sinks, however, is that i do not permit symbologistics. [16:08]
mircea_popescu the only reason she exists is the perhaps well intended, but also castrated inclination of educated males to go "oh, i wonder what the hyeroglypsh mean, can't be discarded out of hand" [16:09]
ascii_butugychag i thought it was because it was solid brick with no flotational volume ? [16:09]
mircea_popescu which by now is so pervasive even ged-educated nigger in the ghetto knows enough to scream "you don't know what it's like" [16:09]
mircea_popescu herp. [16:09]
ascii_butugychag nah she exists for the same reason electrical wires running to my house are warm [16:10]
ascii_butugychag just an unfortunate fact of thermodynamic loss [16:10]
mircea_popescu there's a reason unicode wars (you know, the thing with the integral ?) are mostly around "how to color figurines" now. [16:10]
mircea_popescu this "abstractions" thing mostly works for thine enemies. [16:10]
mircea_popescu you save some time, they get saved from extinction. [16:11]
ascii_butugychag if all of the railroads are in the hands of hitler, it does not follow that i ought to take an interest in travel by oxcart. [16:11]
mircea_popescu perhaps. [16:11]
ascii_butugychag not 'save some time.' but ABLE TO DEAL IN CONCEPTS of the level i deal in, AT ALL [16:12]
mircea_popescu yet all the wires being in the hand of hitler doth make you take an interest in gossipds. [16:12]
ascii_butugychag it isnt an oxcart [16:12]
ascii_butugychag but more like what i wanted out of the net to begin with. [16:12]
mircea_popescu well it isn't anything, so far. [16:12]
ascii_butugychag aha [16:12]
mircea_popescu i dunno who wanted "the railroads" out of reality. [16:12]
ascii_butugychag but since it was referred to, i assumed mircea_popescu was thinking of the idea. [16:13]
ascii_butugychag (on my own desk, it is more than an idea, but this is not official yet) [16:13]
phf as far as i understand, the point is to walk with mp to his vantage point to see something or other. for example that the railroad runs from hitlertown to the work camps. pretty sure he'll just be delighted if you invited him to your own private railroad that goes from your living quarters to your wineries. [16:17]
ascii_butugychag i'm entirely with iverson on this one. [16:18]
ascii_butugychag 'notation is worth +80 iq' [16:19]
ascii_butugychag in the right hands, yes [16:19]
mircea_popescu there is no such thing as iq. [16:19]
mircea_popescu in which sense, the quote is correct. [16:19]
ascii_butugychag tell this to the room-temp iq folks. [16:19]
mircea_popescu also, placebo is worth 20 hp. [16:19]
mircea_popescu (this has in point of fact been measured, and stands as such) [16:20]
ascii_butugychag when mircea_popescu calculates for own reckoning, does he use roman notation? if not, why not? [16:20]
mircea_popescu i have been known to [16:21]
mircea_popescu (in order to bother girlies.) [16:21]
ascii_butugychag << oblig [16:21]
assbot ... ( ) [16:21]
mircea_popescu believe it or not, latin numeral calculation IS actually possible. and they had all sorts of tricks, too [16:21]
ascii_butugychag many things are ~possible~ [16:22]
ascii_butugychag !s befunge [16:22]
assbot 6 results for 'befunge' : [16:22]
ascii_butugychag walking on your hands is also... possible [16:22]
ascii_butugychag and circus acrobats know some spiffy tricks. [16:22]
mircea_popescu more's the point : when you calculate for your own reckoning, do you use inches or milimeters ? [16:22]
ascii_butugychag usually the latter [16:23]
mircea_popescu aha. [16:23]
mircea_popescu know anyon who doesn't ? etc. [16:23]
* mircea_popescu will bbl. [16:23]
ascii_butugychag actually like most folks living in usa who do any machine work, i own two sets of everything. [16:23]
ascii_butugychag incl. drill bits. [16:23]
ascii_butugychag this is, i know, sad. [16:23]
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phf what's wrong with a moscato anyway? :o [16:28]
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punkman "Postel tarpit (n.) - A system that has tried so hard to accept all possible input that any change becomes backwards-incompatible" [16:31]
punkman wonky definition but I like the name [16:34]
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punkman [16:36]
assbot Cook Computing - Postel's Robustness Principle Revisited ... ( ) [16:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00051465 = 8.3373 BTC [+] {3} [16:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00050411 = 5.6208 BTC [-] {2} [16:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30500 @ 0.00051576 = 15.7307 BTC [+] {4} [16:49]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00051794 = 19.6299 BTC [+] {3} [16:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00051867 = 4.7199 BTC [+] {3} [16:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00050411 = 4.789 BTC [-] {2} [17:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104171 @ 0.00050296 = 52.3938 BTC [-] {6} [17:21]
BingoBoingo but in either case, a liver largely consisting of scar tissue is not an argument against having had a liver in the first place. << B.. But Discriminashun, Cundishuns... [17:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00051198 = 1.1264 BTC [+] {2} [17:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29750 @ 0.00051239 = 15.2436 BTC [+] {2} [17:46]
deedbot- [Qntra] Zero-Conf Shenanigans Lead To Peter Todd Reddit Ban - [17:53]
thestringpuller damn i wanted that story [18:02]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: You could have submitted something. [18:04]
thestringpuller i didn't know it was news cuz coinbase. [18:05]
thestringpuller next on bitcoin scammers in VC world: "Coinbase sues Peter Todd for 0.01btc" [18:05]
shinohai kek [18:08]
shinohai That sounds more like Roger Ver [18:08]
thestringpuller the dude who had to move to tokyo cause US wouldn't let him visit? [18:10]
thestringpuller "risk of becoming an illegal immigrant" [18:10]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3007 @ 0.0005135 = 1.5441 BTC [+] {2} [18:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66306 @ 0.00051291 = 34.009 BTC [-] {2} [18:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21187 @ 0.00050737 = 10.7496 BTC [-] {2} [18:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15263 @ 0.00050217 = 7.6646 BTC [-] [18:52]
deedbot- [Qntra] Earliest Possible Date For XTCoin Fork Passes - [18:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00051011 = 3.2647 BTC [+] {2} [19:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17619 @ 0.00051986 = 9.1594 BTC [+] {3} [19:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3312 @ 0.00051763 = 1.7144 BTC [-] [19:37]
mircea_popescu !up raedah [19:42]
-assbot- You voiced raedah for 30 minutes. [19:42]
* assbot gives voice to raedah [19:42]
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jurov "I need your agreement in order to republish your contributions under the MIT license. The reason for relicensing Electrum is two-fold: firstly, we want to make Electrum more attractive to developers looking to integrate lightweight Bitcoin functionality into their systems, and a more permissive license is helpful in this regard." [20:05]
jurov "Secondly, we want to release a new version of Electrum for mobile devices and tablets. In order to make Electrum available in various app stores (such as Microsoft's Windows Store or Apple's App Store) we cannot keep the restrictive GPL license, as publishing Electrum on some of these stores may break the terms of the GPL." [20:05]
jurov gpl stuff can't be in appstore, rly? [20:06]
mircea_popescu are you going to give it ? [20:06]
mircea_popescu right. [20:06]
BingoBoingo gpl stuff can't be in appstore, rly? << Ya Rly [20:06]
mircea_popescu miserable move on their part, actually. [20:07]
guruvan you not a fan of MIT license mircea_popescu ? [20:08]
mircea_popescu but it seems par for the course. all the pimply faced wanna-be bill gates business majors know how to do anymore is cast out a net for suckers, wait until the rate of catch stops, and then try to spin it off and sell it. [20:08]
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mircea_popescu so everything starts as gpl, welcomes any sucker foss head to contribute, then "progresses" to a mit license and hey, maybe apple wants to buy it! [20:08]
jurov probably not. but my contribution was like, 5 lines. [20:08]
mircea_popescu it's shameful. if you're going to prostitute yourself, at least do the world a favour and do it in istanbul, in the nude, in the dedicated quarter for ephebs [20:09]
mircea_popescu guruvan i like isis a lot more than i like mit. [20:09]
mircea_popescu and i'm one of the few guys that publicly burned the coran. [20:09]
guruvan well...that's just gonna mean they don't like you :- [20:10]
mircea_popescu they're idiots, but at least they're productive. unlike the mit imbeciles who [20:11]
assbot MIT genuises with lightbulb - YouTube ... ( ) [20:11]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [20:13]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [20:13]
ascii_butugychag << l0lwut?! productive??! [20:13]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 23:09:29; mircea_popescu: they're idiots, but at least they're productive. unlike the mit imbeciles who [20:13]
mircea_popescu yes. productive. [20:14]
ascii_butugychag of what? [20:14]
mircea_popescu wake me up when your imperial/european drill bits produced a robot that routed the usg at tikrit. [20:14]
ascii_butugychag usg 'fought' to churn inventory and guarantee lockheed et al earmarks. [20:15]
mircea_popescu yaya. [20:15]
ascii_butugychag and to prevent ghaddafis [20:15]
mircea_popescu mit ain't routing anyone. ever. [20:15]
ascii_butugychag mit is so that smart kidz dont tmsr. [20:16]
ascii_butugychag they actually called me up last month.. [20:16]
jurov "Hello, thanks for asking, but I refuse to change the license of my contribution. I cannot with clear conscience recommend a Bitcoin wallet with closed source modifications. Would you use one yourself, really?" [20:18]
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jurov ^ mi rather mild-mannered reply [20:18]
mircea_popescu no but you don't understand, they're only trying to. [20:18]
mircea_popescu might even make a good qntra piece. this sort of miserable behaviour needs some castigation., [20:21]
mircea_popescu fucking emblematic of the new usa : "1. hey, we're trying to save the world, help us ; 2. hey, the rate at which new people join to help us dropped off so now we'll build an oil refinery instead, maybe shell wants to buy one!" [20:22]
mircea_popescu fuck you with a fucking stick, who the heck is supposed to fall for this ? [20:22]
mircea_popescu who. 20year olds, obviously. and... they do. [20:22]
mircea_popescu same fucking thing with "bitcoin dev companies", however many different groups are running this scam by now. [20:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23040 @ 0.00050125 = 11.5488 BTC [-] {2} [20:25]
* jurov scans his private #electrum log, omfg deze gems [20:27]
jurov [20151130 17:22] Tribaal: I would not be too concerned about closed-source forks, in the case of Bitcoin software. [20:27]
jurov [20151130 17:23] ThomasV: How so? If my fork steals your wallet, I would be pretty sure you'd mind :) [20:27]
jurov [20151130 17:24] that's my point. I think nobody would use a closed source fork [20:27]
jurov i'm tired and want sleep, whoever is doing qntra, can have it [20:28]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80527 @ 0.00051023 = 41.0873 BTC [+] {2} [20:40]
BingoBoingo might even make a good qntra piece. this sort of miserable behaviour needs some castigation., << for srs jurov [20:44]
BingoBoingo It can wait for you to wake up [20:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9631 @ 0.00051024 = 4.9141 BTC [+] [21:01]
mircea_popescu in other news, the new merchant of venice is actually 40% done! [21:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00051687 = 4.6518 BTC [+] {2} [21:16]
BingoBoingo O.0 [21:38]
asciilifeform l0l neato [21:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15150 @ 0.00051279 = 7.7688 BTC [-] {2} [21:50]
asciilifeform ;;later tell kakobrekla [21:51]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:51]
assbot dpaste: 0B92T3F ... ( ) [21:51]
asciilifeform in other nyooz, [21:52]
asciilifeform ~considerably~ smoother performance on the trb+malleus nodez [21:52]
asciilifeform (vs historical) [21:52]
asciilifeform may be simply on account of the ~80% drop in traffic, though. [21:53]
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asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo it is not an accurate description of malleus patch to say that it only nukes peers using bloom filters. it nukes any peer which issues any command whatsoever unsupported in trb. [21:53]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:53]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I haven't seen any other commands in debug.log yet. Perhaps leave a comment on post? [21:55]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it won't show up in the log as a distinct thing [21:55]
asciilifeform just 'heathen.' [21:55]
BingoBoingo I mean before using the patch. I've only seen bloom filter from multibit/Shildebach et al hit my node. [21:56]
BingoBoingo Other commands may emerge, but bloom filter request is the only one I have seen in the wild. [21:58]
mircea_popescu anyway, maybe all this "soft-fork" bullshit is really a good opportunity to start a #b-a mining pool. [22:01]
mircea_popescu anyone want to run a pool ? [22:02]
asciilifeform on submarine ? [22:02]
mircea_popescu let's not get overdramatique. [22:05]
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asciilifeform interesting idea, but what's to keep a public pool from infinite ddos 24/7. [22:06]
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BingoBoingo Who says public pool? Or single point of failure? Why not fork p2pool? [22:08]
mircea_popescu iirc p2pool was unfixably slow. [22:09]
BingoBoingo hmmm [22:09]
BingoBoingo << List not inspiring confidence [22:11]
assbot Software - Bitcoin Wiki ... ( ) [22:11]
shinohai <<< /me would certainly try to obtain miners to mine on a #b-a pool [22:12]
assbot Logged on 12-01-2016 00:59:53; mircea_popescu: anyway, maybe all this "soft-fork" bullshit is really a good opportunity to start a #b-a mining pool. [22:12]
mircea_popescu shinohai a few people have asked, which is why i said. [22:13]
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shinohai It would be handy to mine own tx's but would require considerable hashpower, no? [22:13]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [22:14]
gribble Current Blocks: 392907 | Current Difficulty: 1.0388034081545589E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 393119 | Next Difficulty In: 212 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 5 hours, 45 minutes, and 15 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [22:14]
mircea_popescu not really. to guarantee same-day inclusion, you'd need 1/10/24 * 10^11 = 0.5% of the current hash rate. to guarantee the usual thing wires guarantee (2-3 days) proportionally less. [22:15]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [22:21]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 446.27, vol: 7498.99347541 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 444.001, vol: 6295.41647 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 446.8, vol: 14550.86099406 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 447.226002, vol: 37121.74600000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 447.37, vol: 112.39650116 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 454.453760989, vol: 15.66709175 | Volume-weighted last average: 446.714667061 [22:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00051688 = 3.7732 BTC [+] [22:23]
mod6 ftr: im still laughing about kako's buddy who needed the condoms in thailand [22:27]
shinohai Good to have friends that will ship you rubbers just like that when necessary. [22:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33732 @ 0.00050901 = 17.1699 BTC [-] {5} [22:29]
mod6 ikr, solid guy [22:30]
mod6 would trade again [22:30]
asciilifeform << well, of the hash rate ~forever~ [22:38]
assbot Logged on 12-01-2016 01:13:37; mircea_popescu: not really. to guarantee same-day inclusion, you'd need 1/10/24 * 10^11 = 0.5% of the current hash rate. to guarantee the usual thing wires guarantee (2-3 days) proportionally less. [22:38]
asciilifeform at a given time. [22:38]
asciilifeform else you slip. [22:38]
mircea_popescu sure. [22:40]
mircea_popescu and it being a random process, "guarantee" is necessarily an average sort of concept. [22:41]
asciilifeform aha [22:41]
ben_vulpes kilo-log-line day, huh? [22:44]
mircea_popescu good stuff. [22:44]
ben_vulpes i caught snippets over the oar, looking forward to it. [22:44]
ben_vulpes << whattabout the pronounceable mnemonic hashes a la urbit? [22:48]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 13:56:49; mircea_popescu: yes, naming can work like that, if and 94875984375983.jksldak are the same to you. [22:48]
ben_vulpes fantub tasslyb or what was it [22:48]
mircea_popescu and let me guess, you'll get them from... hets ? [22:48]
* ben_vulpes wonders if his destroyer still floats [22:48]
ben_vulpes hets? [22:48]
asciilifeform [22:48]
assbot Logged on 08-05-2015 01:24:40; assbot: dpaste: 2E0CYZQ: Speakables ... ( ) [22:49]
asciilifeform pretty useless [22:49]
asciilifeform ^ my implementation of mr. mold's early syllables [22:49]
asciilifeform (he changed them out later) [22:49]
ben_vulpes why useless? and changed to? [22:49]
asciilifeform some others [22:49]
asciilifeform and useless in that i never found a serious use for it [22:49]
ben_vulpes ;;rated gernika [22:50]
gribble You have not yet rated user gernika [22:50]
ben_vulpes mwell i owe ya one [22:50]
mircea_popescu if you think i'm about to load my head with random strings... [22:50]
* shinohai has quit (Quit: - A hand crafted IRC client) [22:51]
ben_vulpes mhm [22:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00051688 = 5.7891 BTC [+] [22:53]
ben_vulpes << eve, but with btc, and on an island not in space [22:53]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 15:21:54; copypaste: i very much love the concept of a 3d game with a bitcoin economy. i've played a few, but all poorly done. [22:53]
mircea_popescu nah, eve has an inflation problem larger than the usg's. [22:54]
ben_vulpes in the sense of a game that is most effectively played with spreadsheets. [22:54]
mircea_popescu the "spreadsheets in space" thing referred to how its graphics/engine is absent, [22:55]
mircea_popescu not to how you play it. [22:55]
ben_vulpes you played trader without spreadsheets? [22:55]
BingoBoingo nah, eve has an inflation problem larger than the usg's. << And a problem where some things had absolutely no market anywhere, like slaves. [22:55]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes sure. [22:55]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu even got suicide ganked once [22:56]
mircea_popescu lol [22:56]
BingoBoingo He was mining in his little pickup truck with a new recruit and then he got FOOF'd [22:57]
mircea_popescu yeah hey bb weren't you in 1btc ? [22:57]
BingoBoingo Yeah [22:57]
mircea_popescu how come you're not euloring ?! [22:57]
BingoBoingo Newsing is awfully time consuming. [22:57]
mircea_popescu anyway, the bitcoin eve society had like... a space station fully built and i dun remember how many of the not-titan class ships, a dozen or some shit [22:58]
BingoBoingo The things I have to see [22:58]
mircea_popescu but the game is incredibly boring. [22:58]
BingoBoingo The fucking "jumps" were the worst part of hauling [22:58]
ben_vulpes sinfully boring. [22:59]
mircea_popescu in tyhe end i was using that society, what was their name [22:59]
ben_vulpes and the mega-pvp, even worse. [22:59]
mircea_popescu i think i had them haul 5 bn worth of isk in 10-20mn installments [22:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00051688 = 17.9874 BTC [+] [23:01]
mircea_popescu but i do recall BingoBoingo did a bunch of hauls in one of those what were they called ? obelisk ? [23:01]
* sueastside ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:01]
BingoBoingo Nah the smaller thing. By the time I trained to the obelisk is about when I bored out of eve. Fucking jumps [23:02]
mircea_popescu aha [23:02]
BingoBoingo The prospect of locking up CPU time for 8 hour autopilot runs + normal Jita lag was too much [23:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, iirc what we did was, we had a full space station that produced fuel [23:02]
ben_vulpes time based skilling, bleh. [23:02]
mircea_popescu and fuel was in high demand so we bought some precursors from jita and sold the fuel to the people in low sec [23:03]
mircea_popescu that and some worm hole digging, i recall going with hanbot [23:03]
BingoBoingo time based skilling was nbd [23:03]
mircea_popescu and with that other chick, what was her name [23:03]
mircea_popescu dude how long ago was this ? 2012 ? 13 ? [23:04]
BingoBoingo 2013 [23:04]
ben_vulpes dang. [23:04]
mircea_popescu feels like 30 fucking years, i reemember it as from under a concrete slab. [23:04]
BingoBoingo Summer 2013. After I'd visited here and before I was sitting here full time [23:04]
mircea_popescu i remember we kinda had enough of the shit at the same time and that guy, what's his name, the accountant guy ended up inheriting it all [23:05]
mircea_popescu smickles, that's right! [23:05]
ben_vulpes holy shit smickles [23:06]
mircea_popescu ;;seen smickles [23:06]
gribble smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 30 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: easily a few more bil in things like BPOs and BPCs [23:06]
ben_vulpes ;;seen smickles [23:06]
gribble smickles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 30 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 45 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: easily a few more bil in things like BPOs and BPCs [23:06]
mircea_popescu HA! [23:06]
BingoBoingo Ah, I missed that part [23:06]
mircea_popescu yeah cuz we had a fully researched or whatever it was ? bp to make that battleship [23:07]
mircea_popescu the good one. [23:07]
BingoBoingo Even jurov got sucked into it with the S.MPOE/1BTC share convertability [23:07]
mircea_popescu that alone was like 1bn then. prolly 15 bn by now lol [23:07]
mircea_popescu a yeah. [23:07]
BingoBoingo Inflation is a hell of a drug [23:07]
asciilifeform << gotta love how usg names roads 'for them' [23:16]
assbot North Korea Hwasong Gulag ... ( ) [23:16]
* asciilifeform can't wait for a map of washington made in pyongyang [23:16]
asciilifeform with names. [23:17]
danielpbarron ben_vulpes> you played trader without spreadsheets? << what is it for? I use strictly txt files in my various Eulora activities [23:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30673 @ 0.00051044 = 15.6567 BTC [-] {2} [23:23]
thestringpuller LOL smickles has only beeng gone a year. I thought it was longer than that. [23:23]
ben_vulpes year and thirty weeks [23:23]
thestringpuller i see him on steam occassionaly. must have taken early retirement. [23:24]
ben_vulpes danielpbarron: recalculates values whenever inputs change? [23:24]
ben_vulpes danielpbarron: has equations in his text files? [23:24]
danielpbarron in one called profit.txt yes [23:25]
asciilifeform what's in ruin.txt ? [23:25]
ben_vulpes haw [23:25]
danielpbarron cat: ruin.txt: No such file or directory [23:25]
ben_vulpes << aheha this from the guy who when looking at a dsl for a rules engine complained "but but what's wrong with the sexprs?!" [23:28]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 17:40:46; ascii_butugychag: and i'm not interested in writing word 'nabla' instead of ∇ every time !111 [23:28]
BingoBoingo what's in ruin.txt ? << Enemies whose char would make suitable black for darkening wizard tower stones [23:28]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wai wut [23:28]
ben_vulpes 'tis in the log [23:29]
asciilifeform rules engine ? [23:29]
ben_vulpes mhm [23:30]
* asciilifeform digs futilely for the thread [23:30]
* ben_vulpes sighs, goes looking as well [23:31]
ben_vulpes doubt rules engine made it into the log [23:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6908 @ 0.00050125 = 3.4626 BTC [-] {2} [23:32]
asciilifeform at any rate, the question of sexprs vs infix ('rich syntax', in derp terminology) is orthogonal to '∇ vs nabla' thing [23:32]
asciilifeform and (λ (x y) (....)) ~is~ superior to (lambda... [23:34]
asciilifeform and the keyboard of a civilized person ~ought to~ have a alt-graph metakey and a λ printed on the front facet of the L. [23:35]
asciilifeform and to compare this to the idiot 'smiley' crapolade is lunacy [23:36]
asciilifeform shit, shinola. both black, 'spreading works', the similarity ends there. [23:36]
ben_vulpes motherfucker [23:37]
ben_vulpes where did this come from and where did it go [23:38]
asciilifeform lemme guess, it was a gabriel_laddel thread [23:38]
ben_vulpes doubt it. [23:38]
ben_vulpes memory implies it was a link followed from some acl conference sponsors list. [23:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.0005035 = 8.2574 BTC [+] {4} [23:39]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: can you recall any ? [23:40]
asciilifeform i must've slept through this. [23:41]
asciilifeform as did assbot. [23:41]
ben_vulpes bah. [23:41]
ben_vulpes i've been digging, but the line's not showing in the logs. [23:42]
ben_vulpes not even searching for from:ben_vulpes asciilifeform http [23:42]
ben_vulpes the sample code had some declarative rules, and your complaint was something along the lines of "why'd they get rid of the parens?!" [23:42]
asciilifeform ... [23:43]
* ben_vulpes shrugs [23:43]
ben_vulpes 'tis lost. [23:43]
asciilifeform let's do a brick-in-your-face-obvious illustrative case. [23:47]
asciilifeform λf. (λx. f (x x))(λx. f (x x)) [23:47]
asciilifeform vs [23:47]
asciilifeform lambda f. (lambda x. f (x x))(lambda x. f (x x)) [23:48]
* joshbuddy_ (~josh@wikimedia/Joshbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:48]
* joshbuddy has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:48]
* joshbuddy_ is now known as joshbuddy [23:48]
asciilifeform (the alert reader will recognize the infamous 'y combinator.') [23:48]
asciilifeform now WHICH ONE IS READABLE [23:48]
mircea_popescu the latter. [23:49]
asciilifeform l0l [23:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu speaks like a fella who never has to. [23:49]
asciilifeform has to any of it. [23:49]
mircea_popescu look... i read what i read. what do you want from me ? [23:49]
asciilifeform idk, get out old notebook from school, and see how many pages it'd take you to ~unambiguously~ and ~rigorously~ english-verbalize, e.g., green's theorem ? [23:50]
mircea_popescu in 6th or 7th grade at some point i discovered sums and the sigma. i was enchanted for about a year. throughout highschool i just wrote them out. [23:52]
mircea_popescu because it seriously is no fucking gain. [23:52]
asciilifeform and when you have 11 of them nested ? [23:52]
asciilifeform also wrote out ? [23:52]
mircea_popescu besides the fact that it paginates poorly. [23:52]
mircea_popescu if you have 11 nested you fucked something up. [23:52]
asciilifeform mno. [23:52]
asciilifeform then you're writing a graphics engine, mayhap [23:52]
mircea_popescu look : if you have 11 sums nested you fucked something up. [23:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.0005086 = 6.9933 BTC [+] {3} [23:53]
asciilifeform what next, if i need to define an operator i also fucked up ? [23:53]
asciilifeform or to use more than 26 variables ? [23:53]
mircea_popescu just define whatever the fuck and work on one sum at a fucking time already. [23:53]
mircea_popescu if i see void alfun (1, 2, 3, 4 .. 26); ima think you can't code. [23:54]
asciilifeform who said code. [23:54]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu didntcha do peano, frege, et al? how did you manage with 26 letters ? [23:54]
mircea_popescu by looking at parts at a time! [23:54]
asciilifeform we ran through all of latin, greek, went through much of hebrew on one chalkboardfull [23:54]
mircea_popescu the conceptual equivalent of writing fucking subroutines you nut you. [23:54]
asciilifeform reusing letters in 1 proof [23:55]
asciilifeform is like reusing [23:55]
asciilifeform toilet paper. [23:55]
asciilifeform during the course of ONE SHIT. [23:55]
asciilifeform even. [23:55]
asciilifeform washing it, yes. [23:55]
mircea_popescu dude get out. there's 7 bn people alive today, not to mention historically, and you think having twenty or a hundred slices of tp makes a difference ? [23:56]
mircea_popescu they're all equally dirty anyway. [23:56]
asciilifeform typically the only way any of it makes a difference to me is between grasping and not-grasping a thing. [23:56]
mircea_popescu well so fine, have at! [23:57]
mircea_popescu i'm not telling you how to grasp things, you're the one that keeps going "no true scotsman would go around without a parasol" or w/e. [23:57]
asciilifeform mno [23:57]
mircea_popescu be the scotsman with a parasol, what do i care. [23:57]
asciilifeform my position was 'maths can only adequately happen on a graphical terminal' [23:58]
mircea_popescu this is a self-ridiculing proposition. [23:58]
asciilifeform relatedly, i spend a great deal of time in uni maths library. to this day. and every so often i end up picking up a thing that was typeset on the cheap, in the dark ages, using typewriter [23:58]
asciilifeform EVEN THERE folks laboured to ascii-art the sigmas etc. [23:58]
mircea_popescu what can i tell you. [23:58]
asciilifeform inked in the integral signs. [23:58]
mircea_popescu yeah i had a raft of that retarded shit too [23:59]
asciilifeform aha [23:59]
mircea_popescu machine written for text and then hand drawn for symbolics [23:59]
asciilifeform didja ever walk up to the author, and ask 'why didntcha do plain text like euclid' [23:59]
mircea_popescu i don't remember any of it. nobody does, people who wrote it included. [23:59]
mircea_popescu yes, actually. i generally said this si fucking stupid and you people suck. [23:59]
asciilifeform aha but generally [23:59]
Category: Logs
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