Forum logs for 04 Jan 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:

ReadErr:	hello	[00:16]
mircea_popescu:	hey	[00:16]
ReadErr:	woke up late, cold weather does that to me	[00:19]
phf:	asciilifeform: https://www.geopolitica.ru/article/gorizont-idealnoy-imperii	[00:34]
asciilifeform:	phf: strooong lsd...	[00:42]
phf:	:D	[00:42]
ReadErr:	I need some LSD to be able to read this	[00:45]
phf:	"doctor, will i be able to play violin after surgery?" "i don't see why not" "are you sure?" "i'm certain" "that's odd, i couldn't play violin before"	[00:47]
mircea_popescu:	o look, ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap on that geopolitica."ru" item. don't tell me it's 100% more of the same old http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-08-mar-2017#2249068 / http://trilema.com/2017/datamarylandgov/#footnote_0_76632 !	[02:00]
a111:	Logged on 2017-03-08 22:29 mircea_popescu: in other lulz : femen, the "ukrainian" organisation is selling shit priced in dollars via 2checkout.com, the columbus ohio us corp.	[02:00]
mircea_popescu:	or are we rather going with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759970	[02:01]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 23:42 phf: zavalashin is another old timer, the piece in question is his only contribution to forbse	[02:01]
deedbot:	http://deedbot.org/bundle-502494.txt	[02:15]
ReadErr:	whats the trigger	[02:19]
ReadErr:	of those msgs	[02:19]
ReadErr:	just sync'ing data?	[02:19]
mircea_popescu:	if bot sees a log line it reads it out	[02:19]
ReadErr:	ohh I see	[02:20]
lobbes:	!!invoice Birdman 0.00224535 http://deedbot.org/deed-487885-1.txt	[02:21]
deedbot:	Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NO3wI/?raw=true	[02:21]
lobbes:	!!v FC8021469BE8CD2A3781D12B6ACE04ADC5BF3E9AC9A844C08B0FE15A825D2F74	[02:21]
trinque:	lobbes: somehow he's in both deedbot and wallet as lowercase.	[02:26]
lobbes:	odd..	[02:27]
lobbes:	!!key birdman	[02:27]
deedbot:	http://wot.deedbot.org/2B2DC64A8C3DBD14024A610343C14A4124F48195.asc	[02:27]
trinque:	deedbot is case insensitive wallet ought to be but isn't.	[02:27]
trinque:	one sec.	[02:27]
trinque:	lobbes: give it another crank I've updated him to the casing he uses	[02:28]
lobbes:	k. should I set up a new invoice or just resend the !!v ?	[02:29]
trinque:	whole thing again please	[02:29]
lobbes:	!!invoice Birdman 0.00224535 http://deedbot.org/deed-487885-1.txt	[02:29]
deedbot:	Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/1DdSu/?raw=true	[02:29]
lobbes:	!!v 11FA4EE5663EAB921AF1AE7B246BA6310B86BFD7E077B70F06A6F77A013AAA2E	[02:30]
deedbot:	Invoiced Birdman 0.00224535 << http://deedbot.org/deed-487885-1.txt	[02:30]
lobbes:	nice	[02:30]
mircea_popescu:	!~ticker --market all	[02:31]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14853.01, vol: 12958.33787145 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14832.0, vol: 40432.6221283 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 14961.3, vol: 2740.43955485 \| Volume-weighted last average: 14843.1629768	[02:31]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc 0.00224535 * 14843.1629768	[02:31]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: 0.00224535 * 14843.1629768 = 33.32809598995788	[02:31]
trinque:	there's a cheap meal down there in the decimals	[02:32]
mircea_popescu:	aha	[02:33]
lobbes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-12#1749770 << the improbability grins again	[02:34]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-12 03:46 mircea_popescu: seems so improbable.	[02:34]
mircea_popescu:	word	[02:34]
lobbes:	!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q4/diana_coman_payment_receipt.txt	[02:35]
deedbot:	accepted: 1	[02:35]
lobbes:	!!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q4/mircea_popescu_payment_receipt.txt	[02:35]
deedbot:	accepted: 1	[02:35]
ReadErr:	lol neat, receipts	[02:42]
ReadErr:	what kind of things do yall auction ?	[02:43]
lobbes:	mostly is items found in the game Eulora. But just recently this was auctioned: http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-12-18.log.html#t20:44:22	[02:44]
lobbesbot:	Logged on 2017-12-18 20:44:22: <lobbesbot> AUCTION # 163 has ENDED: The very notebook displayed in http://trilema.com/2017/of-ducks-and-lameness/ ! Free shipping anywhere in the world included. SOLD to danielpbarron for 1mn coppers. Attn: mircea_popescu	[02:44]
lobbes:	I think that may have been the first non-game item auctioned with an actual sale	[02:45]
lobbes:	no takers on danielpbarron's FG	[02:45]
lobbes:	(I figure this is because most here, already own one or more)	[02:45]
ReadErr:	FG ?	[02:46]
lobbes:	!#s FUCKGOATS	[02:47]
a111:	249 results for "FUCKGOATS", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=FUCKGOATS	[02:47]
lobbes:	see also: https://archive.is/CwtVn	[02:50]
ReadErr:	ohhh the board that asciilifeform made	[02:50]
ReadErr:	gotcha	[02:51]
asciilifeform:	dafuq, lobbes , why linked a 2016 prerelease fg www snapshot ?	[08:40]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1762790 << the last copy before destruction of dulap-II	[08:41]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-03 05:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1762753 << >> https://archive.is/CGQkR	[08:41]
BingoBoingo:	In other discoveries, the little ice cream cones filled with dulce de leche. Very decadent	[09:33]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763550 << ftr, it's high time for gabriel_laddel to grasp that his item has less to do with actual lispm than a stuffed dog has with a live one	[09:37]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 02:12 gabriel_laddel: FTR: what I bring to the table is the closest thing to LISPM available, and direction + productive discussion for those already down the rabbit hole. Non-alices need not apply.	[09:37]
asciilifeform:	the funny bit is that gabriel_laddel came pretty close to building something like cuntoo (i.e. a sanely depythonized gentoo) which would've been useful and respectable	[09:39]
asciilifeform:	but instead veered into... what, exactly.	[09:40]
asciilifeform:	not, certainly, a lispm. any moar than old rusty toyota with the holes caulked, and oars fitted, is a boat .	[09:41]
BingoBoingo:	!~ticker --market all	[09:44]
jhvh1:	BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14589.0, vol: 13413.26748573 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14501.0, vol: 43217.36599313 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 14700.5, vol: 3141.77712317 \| Volume-weighted last average: 14531.2338831	[09:44]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763607 << nope. better even. it was dugin, and crossed auto-parody horizon	[09:46]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 07:00 mircea_popescu: o look, ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap on that geopolitica."ru" item. don't tell me it's 100% more of the same old http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-08-mar-2017#2249068 / http://trilema.com/2017/datamarylandgov/#footnote_0_76632 !	[09:46]
BingoBoingo:	<asciilifeform> not, certainly, a lispm. any moar than old rusty toyota with the holes caulked, and oars fitted, is a boat . << Well, hazard of desyncing is ending up on the caulk chain	[09:49]
ReadErr:	is there anywhere one could read about this overthrowing the gov plan	[09:49]
ReadErr:	that danielpbarron spoke of	[09:50]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763557 << at this point i'm quite convinced that you can't 'fix clim'. any more than 'fix' winblowz	[09:50]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 02:18 gabriel_laddel: In my mind, lispm, or interlisp editor + fixed clim comes first. hence, have been following that route	[09:50]
asciilifeform:	it's a multilayered clusterfuck.	[09:50]
danielpbarron:	ReadErr, this channel's logs, trilema.com, or any other the other blogs by lords	[09:51]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: the hazard is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-31#1761834	[09:51]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-31 16:39 mircea_popescu: don't lie, because if you do you form a sort of mental habit that will prevent you from ever inventing anything.	[09:51]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: that's what did him in.	[09:52]
asciilifeform:	he was willing to lie to self re 'clim on linux is a lispm'	[09:52]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: AHA, caulk chain!	[09:52]
BingoBoingo:	Where the lie that the filler is the structure!	[09:52]
ReadErr:	danielpbarron: ?	[09:52]
asciilifeform:	'hardware isn't easy to build therefore couldn't possibly be necessary, the gods would not have made this level so hard, for me, the hero' or similar.	[09:53]
danielpbarron:	ReadErr, i don't know that we want to "overthrow" the usg. more like, do our own thing in opposition to them, and eventually hang the bureaucrats	[09:53]
ReadErr:	like your own sovereign nation ?	[09:54]
danielpbarron:	yeah don't you see the topic	[09:54]
ReadErr:	oh lol	[09:54]
ReadErr:	nah i didnt until now	[09:54]
asciilifeform:	ReadErr: are you familiar with the relationship between bitcoin and the empire ?	[09:57]
ReadErr:	i am not yet, no	[09:57]
ReadErr:	was curious to see more	[09:57]
asciilifeform:	ReadErr: it's not wholly unlike the one between mercury and airplane .	[09:57]
ReadErr:	amalgamations	[09:57]
asciilifeform:	the effect of understanding exactly why this is so, is not unlike the effect on child of learning arithmetic	[09:59]
ReadErr:	apparently adults need to relearn arithmetic these days, with the 'new math' they are using	[10:00]
asciilifeform:	!~google lehrer new math	[10:01]
jhvh1:	asciilifeform: new math by tom lehrer - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DwIWaJ0sy03g> Tom Lehrer - New Math Lyrics \| MetroLyrics: <http://www.metrolyrics.com/new-math-lyrics-tom-lehrer.html> Tom Lehrer - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lehrer>	[10:01]
asciilifeform:	^ obligatory	[10:01]
ReadErr:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWaJ0sy03g	[10:02]
asciilifeform:	anyway, some starting points : there are two types of money. bitcoin, and printolade	[10:02]
asciilifeform:	!#s printolade	[10:03]
a111:	55 results for "printolade", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=printolade	[10:03]
ReadErr:	hmm so a printing medium	[10:04]
ReadErr:	not gonna lie, im lost as to what printolade is	[10:06]
asciilifeform:	!#s fiatola	[10:07]
a111:	57 results for "fiatola", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fiatola	[10:07]
asciilifeform:	^ aka.	[10:07]
danielpbarron:	ReadErr, "money" that is printed. nothing to back it (not that money must be backed)	[10:09]
ReadErr:	gotcha	[10:10]
danielpbarron:	i can see a world in which local banks print notes backed by bitcoin, but the bitcoin itself is not backed	[10:10]
ReadErr:	well that wouldnt be any different than today	[10:10]
ReadErr:	with usd	[10:10]
asciilifeform:	'backing' is a red herring.	[10:10]
danielpbarron:	yeah i don't know how else to put it	[10:10]
asciilifeform:	the sole hinge is the question of whether somebody can arbitrarily create the item out of thin air at no cost to himself.	[10:11]
danielpbarron:	ReadErr, it's a lot different. there is no limit to how many dollars get printed	[10:11]
ReadErr:	printolade is a finite resource then ?	[10:11]
danielpbarron:	it's finite in the sense that they eventually print so much it isn't worth anything anymore	[10:12]
asciilifeform:	printolade is a device for 'bloodless', quiet remote theft.	[10:12]
ReadErr:	theft of immaterial things ?	[10:13]
asciilifeform:	theft of everything.	[10:13]
asciilifeform:	when you sell something for, e.g., dollar, you are in effect giving it away to the folks with the printing press.	[10:14]
ReadErr:	i would have thought it would be a redistribution	[10:15]
asciilifeform:	in exactly same sense that a hood rat stealing your car will say he 'was effecting redistribution'.	[10:15]
ReadErr:	but if i sell you a loaf of bread for a dollar	[10:16]
ReadErr:	and you arent printing the currency	[10:16]
ReadErr:	how does that go back to the printers	[10:16]
ReadErr:	theres still the same amount in the system	[10:16]
ReadErr:	hmm	[10:18]
asciilifeform:	~they~ print. and use the printolade to organize massive pyramid-building projects (e.g. the infamous 'battleship' that clogged the panama canal last year) and breed armies of idiots.	[10:18]
ReadErr:	something just kinda clicked in my head	[10:18]
asciilifeform:	the existence of the printing press is quite analogous to a short circuit, or memory leak, or other undesirable non-closures of systems in engineering.	[10:18]
ReadErr:	that people have to expend energy/effort to get a dollar, but nothing is required to put that dollar into circulation	[10:19]
asciilifeform:	aaha.	[10:19]
shinohai:	Congratulations, you now understand PoW	[10:20]
ReadErr:	PoW?	[10:20]
shinohai:	Proof of work	[10:20]
ReadErr:	ohh gotcha	[10:20]
ReadErr:	so by your design how would this work	[10:22]
asciilifeform:	ReadErr: bitcoin already exists, and works. and it is worth learning how.	[10:32]
asciilifeform:	!~later tell spyked http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2026&cpage=1#comment-18564	[10:33]
jhvh1:	asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.	[10:33]
ReadErr:	but how would that work in a closed loop system	[10:35]
BingoBoingo:	BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2018/01/04/professor-learns-student-reading-book-he-finds-reprehensible-opinion << "So Al had read the Bible at my suggestion and also, I remembered, my bible, Anna Karenina, and now he was reading Mein Kampf. Our happy reunion had gone down the sewer."	[10:41]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763607 << it's the "let's encrypt" registrar, it started in 2016 so the certs are missing on old deployments	[10:50]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 07:00 mircea_popescu: o look, ssl_error_no_cypher_overlap on that geopolitica."ru" item. don't tell me it's 100% more of the same old http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-08-mar-2017#2249068 / http://trilema.com/2017/datamarylandgov/#footnote_0_76632 !	[10:50]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763609 << not sure Dugin falls into either category, he's one of the "national bolshevik party" leaders, and wikipedia is eager to point out that he's a "fascist!11" and calls to hasten "end of times" with "all-out war", but linked piece is just lulzy in its Vladimir Sorokin slavic nationalist futurism	[10:53]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 07:01 mircea_popescu: or are we rather going with http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759970	[10:53]
phf:	heh "Classification of Dugin as a fascist is justified, regardless of the fact that today the MGU professor frequently speaks not as a primitive ethnocentrist or biological racist. (...) By «fascist» we understand the «generic» meaning of the concept, used in comparatory research of contemporary right-wing extremism by such well-known historians-comparativists [etc.]	[10:55]
mircea_popescu:	aand in other items of no particular interest, https://archive.nyafuu.org/bant/thread/3590513/	[11:03]
mircea_popescu:	phf im not sure what you're saying.	[11:04]
ReadErr:	asciilifeform: well lmk later if you get time im curious to hear more	[11:04]
mircea_popescu:	but menawhile in bimbo, http://78.media.tumblr.com/fd77583d87dfb0ee9fb6051ba2875ec9/tumblr_n8pvn8gvg21r4ql18o1_1280.jpg	[11:05]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763664 << i dunno man stuffed slut has a lot more to do with real woman than the unstuffed pantsuit version.	[11:07]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 14:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763550 << ftr, it's high time for gabriel_laddel to grasp that his item has less to do with actual lispm than a stuffed dog has with a live one	[11:07]
mircea_popescu:	some things just need stuffin'.	[11:07]
ReadErr:	stacked	[11:08]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763671 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-16#1752094 or something.	[11:10]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 14:46 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763607 << nope. better even. it was dugin, and crossed auto-parody horizon	[11:10]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-16 02:31 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-15#1752059 << hey, assets gotta ass-et.	[11:10]
ReadErr:	she could have it.	[11:12]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: dugin is a limonov-like figure, except with moar 'book-larnin''-flavour. if he's an asset, somebody's burning dough for naught.	[11:14]
asciilifeform:	iirc d00d is a court jester for putin.	[11:14]
ReadErr:	wild stuff happening in the news today	[11:15]
mircea_popescu:	well, there's two kinds of identities in this world : keys and brands.	[11:15]
mircea_popescu:	and brands are always someone's asset no corporation yet owned itself, now did it ?	[11:15]
asciilifeform:	re news, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-02#1762316 >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763152 >> culmination , https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/04/intel_amd_arm_cpu_vulnerability << embargo leaked	[11:16]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-02 15:37 asciilifeform: 'With the page table splitting patches merged, it becomes necessary for the kernel to flush these caches every time the kernel begins executing, and every time user code resumes executing. For some workloads, the effective total loss of the TLB lead around every system call leads to highly visible slowdowns: @grsecurity measured a simple case where Linux “du -s” suffered a 50% slowdown on a	[11:16]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-03 16:03 asciilifeform: in other lulz, intel ceo sells 100% of the stock his contract permitted him to sell ( and even filed the mandatory usg report to hitler, hence how it came out )	[11:16]
ReadErr:	lol 50% slowdown	[11:17]
ReadErr:	jfc	[11:17]
mircea_popescu:	i thought it leaked days ago, "keep open drm bank via one address at max cycle" ?	[11:17]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: was disinfo	[11:18]
asciilifeform:	turns out, speculative branching fail.	[11:18]
mircea_popescu:	ah the predictive cache bs ?	[11:18]
asciilifeform:	aha	[11:18]
ReadErr:	https://twitter.com/i/web/status/948934683408072704 The attorney general will scrap Obama-era rules that mandated hands-off approach to states' marijuana-friendly laws, source says http://cnn.it/2AozLtv	[11:19]
ReadErr:	about to be a big state	[11:19]
ReadErr:	states right issue	[11:19]
asciilifeform:	https://newsroom.intel.com/news/intel-responds-to-security-research-findings << intel immediately rolls out snowjob	[11:21]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr hey, make laws about how niggers don't need to make the grade to qualify, end up with worst president of worlds' history, confirm bias in they biased against all blacks and have to undo all his idiotic "reforms" at considerable cost.	[11:21]
asciilifeform:	'However, Intel is making this statement today because of the current inaccurate media reports.' << didjaknow.	[11:21]
mircea_popescu:	nobody said "affirmative action" is free.	[11:21]
ReadErr:	mircea_popescu: i wasnt thinking about it like that, more so how much overreach does the current bighand have over the little hand	[11:22]
ReadErr:	for other issues	[11:23]
mircea_popescu:	considering the states attempts to print money work as well as california's at best...	[11:23]
mircea_popescu:	0.	[11:23]
ReadErr:	money will play a huge part for sure	[11:24]
mircea_popescu:	what else plays parts ?	[11:24]
ReadErr:	hmm well in regards to other issues it may not be based on money	[11:25]
ReadErr:	but it could be moral/faith	[11:25]
mircea_popescu:	dude...	[11:25]
ReadErr:	im just thinking like abortion & religion	[11:26]
mircea_popescu:	there is no such thing as "morals" or "faith". you got a population of caged rats -- if the mysterious feeder person shows up in the morning they eat if not, they starve. they've been caged long enough for the the incredible productive assets and unlimited human ingenuity existing in America" to consist of 1001 ways to navelgraze.	[11:26]
mircea_popescu:	in this competition, inept foreigners (as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745682 ) credit a certain item, which happens to be the fed trade account usg controls that -- the stated of * does not. that is the whole and complete story -- whatever usg says state, corporation, individual does.	[11:28]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-02 22:32 mircea_popescu: BECAUSE http://trilema.com/2014/la-florida-and-other-places/#selection-103.0-103.28 THEREFORE "us empire"	[11:28]
mircea_popescu:	that is why it is the evil empire in the first fucking place.	[11:28]
ReadErr:	curious to see how it plays out	[11:29]
mircea_popescu:	(because unearned "income" corrupts, fundamentally. notice the torrents of "let's make sure we're worthy of manna from heavens" supposed "legislation" in the past decades.)	[11:29]
ReadErr:	thats why i was curious how an ideal world would work	[11:31]
ReadErr:	or system rather	[11:31]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr the funniest bit, to me, is that this lets-call-it-challenge to empire comes from the exact area fallout predicted, "drugs and slavetrade" (to not say i predicted, mexican cartels finally strong enough to take usg apart). the reason this is funny is because the collapsing roman empire was challenged over -- "the right to counterfit"!	[11:31]
ReadErr:	how is work and money introduced	[11:31]
mircea_popescu:	ie, romans were ~trying~ to build the exact system roosevelt built! but lacking in comms and banking, they didn't manage. usg -- did manage, what comes now down the road is...	[11:32]
ReadErr:	so do you see things getting better or worse	[11:33]
ReadErr:	in the current climate	[11:33]
mircea_popescu:	what's better, what's worse, and for whom ?	[11:33]
ReadErr:	better/worse being an opinion	[11:33]
ReadErr:	or closer/further from your ideal system	[11:33]
mircea_popescu:	i expect things are going to only get better, for us. for everyone else -- http://trilema.com/2016/i-am-firmly-against-universal-franchise/	[11:33]
mircea_popescu:	and, of course, http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/	[11:34]
ReadErr:	interesting you say sell the bottom 1/3rd	[11:36]
ReadErr:	i figured it would be become/sell/dispose	[11:36]
mircea_popescu:	well, if there's no buyers...	[11:36]
ReadErr:	that would be the only way to drive the equilibrium in the direction you want	[11:37]
mircea_popescu:	there's also http://trilema.com/2014/the-battlefield-of-the-future/#selection-125.0-133.670 and so on.	[11:37]
mircea_popescu:	but since we're doing retrospective trilemas, here's an item by way of example : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SXexf/?raw=true	[11:38]
mircea_popescu:	towards the end i wanted to link a primer, much in the vein of "here's how to eulora" or gentoo or etcetera : "here's why you are intolerably dumb and how to stop being intolerably dumb a guide for pantsuit chickies".	[11:38]
mircea_popescu:	anyone wanna write it ?	[11:38]
ReadErr:	"not to mention the slavegirls at home."	[11:39]
ReadErr:	lol	[11:39]
mircea_popescu:	hm ?	[11:39]
ReadErr:	in your link	[11:39]
mircea_popescu:	yes ?	[11:39]
ReadErr:	they asked what you do	[11:40]
ReadErr:	"the slavegirls at home"	[11:40]
mircea_popescu:	i know what's in the paste lol.	[11:40]
ReadErr:	just thought it was funny	[11:40]
ReadErr:	is all	[11:40]
mircea_popescu:	oic!	[11:40]
ReadErr:	this is a lot to take in, depth wise	[11:41]
mircea_popescu:	that's what she said!	[11:41]
ReadErr:	lol	[11:41]
ReadErr:	im honestly surprised no country as started farming humans yet	[11:45]
ReadErr:	publicly	[11:45]
BingoBoingo:	!!up ag3nt_zer0	[11:47]
deedbot:	ag3nt_zer0 voiced for 30 minutes.	[11:47]
ReadErr:	just came up while reading	[11:47]
phf:	mircea_popescu: i was trying to do a quick likbez on why the linked article might be funny, i believe we used to do a disclaimer, for expert entomologist only	[11:47]
BingoBoingo:	ReadErr: What do you think the history of China is?	[11:47]
BingoBoingo:	The uniform consistency etc, it's like other agrobiz	[11:47]
ag3nt_zer0:	thx BingoBoingo... good morning and happy new year TMSR	[11:47]
mircea_popescu:	same to you	[11:48]
BingoBoingo:	de nada ag3nt_zer0	[11:48]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763674 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-25#1758470	[11:49]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 14:49 ReadErr: is there anywhere one could read about this overthrowing the gov plan	[11:49]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-25 18:07 mircea_popescu: so, to get on the same page here, the general strategy is, 1. construct undisruptable comms 2. disrupt usg&friends comms 3. disrupt usg&friends physical presence.	[11:49]
ReadErr:	BingoBoingo: I mean in the sense that	[11:49]
ReadErr:	if I wanted a kidney tomorrow	[11:49]
BingoBoingo:	Dude, China	[11:50]
ReadErr:	I could send them $ and it would be here	[11:50]
ReadErr:	they do this out in the open?	[11:50]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr don't break up your logical sentences, it's unseemly. people read whole lines, you don[t have to make a saladpoem out of your thoughts.	[11:50]
BingoBoingo:	Well no, nobody outside TMST does anything out in the open	[11:50]
ReadErr:	ah sorry yea its an old chat habit	[11:50]
mircea_popescu:	BingoBoingo fireworks! definitionally in the open!	[11:50]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr you know who has the same habit ?	[11:51]
* BingoBoingo	rereading La Florida and lolling	[11:51]
mircea_popescu:	BingoBoingo DID YOU EVER IMAGINE WHEN FIRST READING THAT SOON ENOUGH!!!1...!11!! ???	[11:51]
BingoBoingo:	4SRS!!!!! Who could have predicted I'd move to ALTgentina	[11:52]
ReadErr:	BingoBoingo: but why wouldnt they	[11:52]
mircea_popescu:	trilema is like that thing from the matrix, one minute you're swallowing something, the next minute you're fucking a bulky black dude with shaved head AND ENJOYING IT!!!1	[11:52]
BingoBoingo:	ReadErr: Why are so called houses in the US built like movie sets, unlike houses in rich countries liek Uruguay that use Concrete?	[11:53]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr if you want the use of a twat, you can go to your local twatspensary, it's 20 bux or w/e. if you want organs (to eat, to transplant, whatever) it's like 50k a pop or so, they do it in most countries if you want... what exactly do you want ?	[11:53]
mircea_popescu:	humans have been for rent, sale, wholesale etcetera since the dawn of civilisation in no small part because THAT IS THE FUCKING POINT and what civilisation even means.	[11:53]
ReadErr:	mircea_popescu: I dont deny that it happens but rather wonder why its not advertised and sold	[11:53]
ReadErr:	it seems like it would be a very profitable venture	[11:54]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr when's the last time a veyron/fighter jet etc was advertised TO YOU ?	[11:54]
ReadErr:	with the current market anyways	[11:54]
ReadErr:	mircea_popescu: fair point	[11:54]
mircea_popescu:	you're not in the right vertical are you going to deduce by this "hey, fighters are not sold -- nobody spams me offers for them" ?	[11:54]
mircea_popescu:	there were a lotta muppets with the whole "who buys mpex seats" issue back in the day also it's a poor people's limited universe problem.	[11:54]
BingoBoingo:	<mircea_popescu> ReadErr when's the last time a veyron/fighter jet etc was advertised TO YOU ? << The last time a Buggatti was marketed to me was about ~45 minutes ago when I went to Tienda Inglesa for Chocolate milk. Here Bugatti markets... High end asado tools.	[11:55]
ReadErr:	I suppose money does open any door at some point	[11:55]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr and ironically enough, take an item such as say http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-04#1514478 -- it's right there, begging to be bought. but...	[11:55]
a111:	Logged on 2016-08-04 14:47 mircea_popescu: well, by far the cheapest masquerade of a solution is spending the 45mn or so to buy a junky old tanker and be happy.	[11:55]
mircea_popescu:	BingoBoingo which, believe it or not, is why i said veyron!	[11:56]
ReadErr:	but I wonder why an enterprising individual hasnt come along and made it more accessible, or rather go for the volume game	[11:56]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr because we don't believe in the mass market.	[11:57]
BingoBoingo:	mircea_popescu: AHA.	[11:57]
ReadErr:	since the demand far exceeds the supply with the conventional routes	[11:57]
mircea_popescu:	absolutely not.	[11:57]
BingoBoingo:	Montevideo has dispelled much of the appeal of Big ships for me. The whole watching them lumber about in the Rio de Plata... They don't look very fun to drive.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu:	demand from plebs is a) entirely imaginary and b) fucking poisonous. fuck them, let them eat their plastic and thank their incagod.	[11:57]
mircea_popescu:	BingoBoingo nobody drives busses recreationally...	[11:58]
BingoBoingo:	Sure some people do	[11:58]
phf:	the noise exceeds the supply	[11:58]
mircea_popescu:	^	[11:59]
mircea_popescu:	which is what the "here's capital good selling under book price -- go, buy" link was all about! there's not going to be any "SALE!!!" better than this, ever, no matter what.	[11:59]
mircea_popescu:	but... there's no demand. there's just noise shaped-to-look-like-demand by the sort of cocksuckers who made their life be about making noises shaped-to-look-like-a-constitutional-law-professor-while-being-this-dumb-fuck: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763229	[12:00]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-03 17:58 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763108 << i had to google the name, ran across principally the picture of an ugly orc thug in one of those university bonnets. why the fuck is a 18yo monkey wearing collegiate apparel, not nearly old enough ?	[12:00]
ReadErr:	mircea_popescu: ohhh it highlighted the first line i didnt think to keep reading	[12:00]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr always read context.	[12:00]
ReadErr:	since it looks similar to the search page	[12:00]
asciilifeform:	timisoara was a valhalla of these. 'stadium-sized factory, ONLY 1mil $!11'	[12:00]
ReadErr:	which doesnt have the context	[12:00]
ReadErr:	my fault for not paying attention, busy day at work cant think straight	[12:01]
mircea_popescu:	for instance when i linked you to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-31#1761560 i specifically meant you to read the whole thing lol. it explains why "why an enterprising individual hasnt come along and made it more accessible, or rather go for the volume game".	[12:02]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-31 00:05 mircea_popescu: ah, re plebs problems something like http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/#comment-92015 may interest you	[12:02]
ReadErr:	planet3 ?	[12:03]
mircea_popescu:	in other news, veyrons on sale starting around 1mn fiats.	[12:03]
mircea_popescu:	some people paid 600 bitcoinz for a car before!	[12:03]
ReadErr:	i would love 20/20 foresight lol	[12:04]
mircea_popescu:	lol	[12:04]
* asciilifeform	had to look up what even is a 'veyron'	[12:04]
mircea_popescu:	here's an item : https://archive.is/g9gAt pantsuit.org explains to the noisy plebs why they dun wanna the item	[12:04]
mircea_popescu:	"you can't work on it yourself!!!".	[12:04]
mircea_popescu:	i'd like to meet this esl tard who reads jezbel and works on his car himself.	[12:05]
ReadErr:	or someone who buys with with the expectation of doing that	[12:05]
ReadErr:	buys it with*	[12:05]
mircea_popescu:	"this car is great -- every 50 miles you gotta pop the hood"	[12:06]
asciilifeform:	iirc mthreat works on his mig, himself. ( but dun read jizzbel.. )	[12:06]
mircea_popescu:	compare/contrast with "this wife is great -- every night..."	[12:06]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform not THAT much you can do on that sorta engine "yourself". it's really the simplest thing	[12:06]
asciilifeform:	not unless yer also a hobby machinist, and said hobby also includes cutting pyrophoric metals under noble gas etc	[12:07]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[12:08]
mircea_popescu:	~precision~ cutting.	[12:08]
asciilifeform:	naturally not hacksaw-cutting, lol	[12:08]
ag3nt_zer0:	ok in my attempts to set up trb node I encountered a snag trying to install gpg keychain to verify sigs... tried a bunch of troubleshooting tips but no luck. i'm using ubuntu 14.04 - thinking of starting fresh. what is best linux dist for trb node?	[12:08]
mircea_popescu:	ag3nt_zer0 be specific about "a snag"	[12:08]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: 'целый день пилили и рубили -- не смогли компьютер починить...' (tm)(r)( asciilifeform's brother )	[12:10]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform this "i gots to see what goes on in engine" thing is very present, though. /me watched a half hour of "mad max, the version with the crazy south african hottie who got black gangraped so much in that beautifully democratic country, she's all about cutting out her tits and painting her face into wall-like appearances, EXACTLY like the native girls of the accursed africa -- and just like them, will NOT think of ty	[12:10]
mircea_popescu:	he whys and wherefores involved".	[12:10]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: recall your toilet chix ?	[12:11]
asciilifeform:	from the article re when the mains current gave out	[12:11]
mircea_popescu:	they had all sorts of (utterly nonsensical) "cars of the future", their features being that they were "warlike" (in a dysfunctional, anti-mechanicistic, looks-are-everything-and-hot-beats-cute girl pov) and that they had mechanisms exposed	[12:11]
mircea_popescu:	TO SAND! mechanisms, out of the fucking hood, in the desert.	[12:11]
mircea_popescu:	this made sense to them -- and if it makes sense to you, the whole rest of that dumb shit probably also will.	[12:11]
asciilifeform:	kabuki	[12:11]
mircea_popescu:	(pro tip -- there's chastity cages, and girl slavery. because there's all these unemployed http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759156 who'd do screentime cheaply)	[12:12]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-27 07:13 mircea_popescu: aaand in other humanities : a. j. ayer was once in the livingroom of one fernando sanchez on west 57th st, hanging out with a buncha young hussies/models when one girl came arunnin' complaining that her friend was being assaulted in the bedroom. ayer went in, where he found mike tyson atop an obscure south london model. when the (at the time 70yo) oxford professor asked him to quit it, mike tyson wanted to know if he knows wh	[12:12]
ag3nt_zer0:	it was a month ago so don't have the specifics anymore but system was telling me that i needed a number of libs... I dl'ed and installed but the libs later in sequence were telling me they needed the earlier libs which were already supposedly installed. I tried the process several times and am happy to do it again if you think this is the best way but I was thinking maybe ubuntu isn't the most pragmatic for this?	[12:13]
mircea_popescu:	ag3nt_zer0 do it again, a) write down the specifics and b) don't wait a month.	[12:13]
ag3nt_zer0:	ok	[12:13]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform "whole day slashed and burned -- fucking with computor" ?	[12:13]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: whole day sawed, chopped -- but could not fix the comp !	[12:14]
mircea_popescu:	hm, better that way	[12:14]
asciilifeform:	( in re 'user-serviceable parts' )	[12:14]
phf:	ag3nt_zer0: there's a general lean against ubuntu here (i mean it's a piece of shit), but it should work, though you're going to run into pointless library conflicts and such, that an expert can resolve on sight. need sight though	[12:14]
mircea_popescu:	phf i can't understand why this would be, after all ubuntu came about as an attempt to bring linux to the masses.	[12:15]
mircea_popescu:	little did we know that whatsoever you bring to the masses, the masses also bring themselves to.	[12:15]
asciilifeform:	^	[12:15]
phf:	did you know that the name comes from a sacred african word, that means love and care for your fellow human being?	[12:16]
mircea_popescu:	you know ?	[12:16]
BingoBoingo:	That's bullshit of the same vein as the t-shirts that say "Keep East Saint Louis Beautiful"	[12:16]
ReadErr:	and the domain name was probably available	[12:16]
mircea_popescu:	phf i thought it meant "toxoplasmosis is a kind of meeting of the minds also!" tbh.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu:	admittedly my orclangfu is weak.	[12:17]
mircea_popescu:	hmn, should orclangfu be in the thesaurus ?	[12:17]
ReadErr:	ive noticed everyone here has very large vocabularies	[12:18]
mircea_popescu:	shit, there's no orc, there's no fu, i gotta ediut this	[12:18]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr not to mention speaks multiple languages. "esl" is a thing even.	[12:18]
ReadErr:	I dont doubt that either, ive seen many esl speakers out perform americans/brits	[12:20]
asciilifeform:	ReadErr: 'single', here, not 'second'	[12:21]
asciilifeform:	( iirc this is already in mircea_popescu's glossary )	[12:21]
ReadErr:	i only know english, was never motivated to learn another	[12:22]
asciilifeform:	~that~ esl.	[12:22]
asciilifeform:	it's a type of illiteracy, and curable.	[12:23]
BingoBoingo:	ReadErr: Why not? You got a thing for humping hamplanets or something?	[12:23]
mircea_popescu:	ReadErr hey, asciilifeform learned romanian, BingoBoingo learned spanish, nothing bad happens.	[12:23]
asciilifeform:	ro as 5th lol	[12:23]
BingoBoingo:	Learned is a charitable description of my spanish	[12:23]
ReadErr:	mircea_popescu: yea but ive just never been in a position where it was desirable to learn that over something else	[12:23]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: i dun even know if it is 'good sportsmanship' to count individual langs. oughta count families, perhaps ? slavic, germanic , roman	[12:24]
shinohai:	imho Ubuntu is is simply another nigger word for Ebola	[12:25]
ReadErr:	they already have their own distribution	[12:26]
mircea_popescu:	http://trilema.com/2016/republican-thesaurus-with-vocabulary-and-dictionary/ << added orc and -fu comments welcome as always.	[12:28]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform aha.	[12:28]
mircea_popescu:	but hey, baby-did-its-first-travel folk think going from france to spain travel! similarily to how "i crossed state lines! went from upstate ny back to city THROUGH VERMONT!!!11)	[12:29]
esthlos:	please critique: http://www.esthlos.com/files/v.scm . no posix/gnupg or vpatch parsing yet, just the basic logic	[12:31]
mircea_popescu:	esthlos please let your paragraphs flow. please.	[12:31]
esthlos:	what's the reasoning?	[12:32]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752560	[12:33]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-17 03:52 mircea_popescu does his usual s%\n\n%\r\r% s%\n% % s%\r\r%\n\n% while muttering underbreath about the idiocy of fucktards who STILL DON'T UNDERTAND NEWLINE STANDS FOR NEW PARAGRAPH!!11	[12:33]
mircea_popescu:	esthlos so you don't attempt to control my viewport ?	[12:33]
asciilifeform:	does scheme even have multiline comments ?	[12:34]
asciilifeform:	afaik it doesn't	[12:34]
asciilifeform:	( nor does ada )	[12:34]
mircea_popescu:	maybe your wrap(60) or whatevert it is makes text take up 40% of my screen and bs like that.	[12:34]
esthlos:	asciilifeform: nah	[12:34]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform he added the each line	[12:34]
mircea_popescu:	also breaking my automation in the process, because THIS it didn't see before.	[12:34]
asciilifeform:	this forces a fixed line length	[12:34]
asciilifeform:	( same as -- in ada )	[12:34]
esthlos:	in emacs: fill-region, comment-region	[12:34]
mircea_popescu:	i don't get it, if your is followed by 8kb of text this breaks something ?	[12:34]
* asciilifeform	standardizes on traditional, ancestral 80col	[12:34]
asciilifeform:	it breaks my panasonic 9-pin matrix printer!111	[12:35]
esthlos:	could just have with long line if it helps	[12:36]
mircea_popescu:	http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/nvmHd/?raw=true << what is the problem with 1st rather than 2nd ?	[12:36]
asciilifeform:	makes phf's viewer unusable too	[12:36]
asciilifeform:	( results in kilometer of horizontal scroll )	[12:36]
mircea_popescu:	esthlos seems to me very much a case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763857	[12:36]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 16:50 mircea_popescu: ReadErr don't break up your logical sentences, it's unseemly. people read whole lines, you don[t have to make a saladpoem out of your thoughts.	[12:36]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform at some point phf will implement a wordwrap which can be done for browser window.	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	www browsers dun reflow any better than printer.	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: afaik without js , cannot be	[12:37]
mircea_popescu:	i never had a problem with trilema!!11	[12:37]
mircea_popescu:	of course it can jeez. it's a object property.	[12:37]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, absent this logical rule, we'll do what, add "wordwrap(magicnumber" in the unloved v style manual ?	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	80!!	[12:38]
mircea_popescu:	what happens when two dudes with diff magicnumbers comment on the same bit of code ?	[12:38]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform he's not even using 80!	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	the non-80 one gets clubbed	[12:38]
mircea_popescu:	he's using 60minus2 for	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	<=80 obviously	[12:38]
esthlos:	haha i used 55	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	60 is merely ugly. but it doesn't break anything	[12:38]
mircea_popescu:	breaks my fucking process is what it breaks.	[12:38]
esthlos:	have to impose my shit laptop on everyone	[12:38]
mircea_popescu:	why the fuck am i scrolling 2.5x	[12:39]
asciilifeform:	it eats vertical space wastefully, but what does mircea_popescu have that it breaks ?	[12:39]
* mircea_popescu	would settle for 120!	[12:39]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform many things i use are deliberately set up so either it works or it fails. in thsi case "couldn't make text flow sanely - aborting".	[12:39]
mircea_popescu:	because yes, normally i have the above linked mask applied on the inanity the world produces.	[12:40]
esthlos:	but firefox doesn't implement knuths algo!!11	[12:40]
esthlos:	got knows what emacs uses	[12:40]
esthlos:	god	[12:40]
asciilifeform:	emacs auto-fill is deeply braindamaged yes	[12:41]
phf:	emacs auto-fill actually implements knuth's algo..	[12:41]
esthlos:	phf: no fucking way	[12:41]
asciilifeform:	hey esthlos , what's 'srfi', 'srfi-1', 'ice9' ?	[12:42]
asciilifeform:	and what are they doing in your proggy	[12:42]
esthlos:	asciilifeform: https://srfi.schemers.org/	[12:43]
shinohai:	For making lists?	[12:44]
mircea_popescu:	It's simple to determine which vpatches have parents just scan linearly. Performance is O(n^2). << this hurt me painfully.	[12:44]
esthlos:	https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guile-devel/2010-07/msg00046.html	[12:44]
mircea_popescu:	am i the only one who doesn't deem n>1k improbable ?	[12:44]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: we had a lengthy thread re subj	[12:44]
esthlos:	they could be removed, but are helpful	[12:44]
mircea_popescu:	don't tell me it came out as "blockchain never had 1mn blocks so why should we care"	[12:44]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-01-18#1375225	[12:45]
a111:	Logged on 2016-01-18 15:58 ascii_butugychag: the O(N^2) instrinsic runtime of unknown-patch-bag+unknown-sig-bag is something i realized from the start	[12:45]
phf:	asciilifeform: i'm not sure you can even scheme without a bunch of srfi's, the first dozen establish a subset of common lisp standard	[12:45]
asciilifeform:	phf: this is 1) true 2) still a war crime	[12:45]
mircea_popescu:	poor esthlos, he was just looking for comments, not for insanity from bearded hell.	[12:45]
esthlos:	mircea_popescu: :)	[12:45]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: nope. it was resolved in the correct way ('give the vtron the obvious hint , i.e. sanely named files , that turns the problem from o(n^2) into o(n)' )	[12:46]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform question is, on the practical score why not rule out unacceptable sigs first and more in the general... well...	[12:46]
phf:	well, i for one love his sicp-ish captured context lambda classes!	[12:46]
asciilifeform:	what means 'rule out'	[12:46]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform when building a tree, first load up the sig folder, then apply it as a mask on the patch folder, then proceed building with only the patches that passed.	[12:47]
asciilifeform:	turning a dump truck full of ???!?$$??? that you found on the street, that contains some parts valid v-sigs, patches, and some parts chicken shit -- into a purely valid v-tree , is o(n^2). but q is why to permit the dump truck situation to begin with.	[12:47]
asciilifeform:	there's no practical reason to.	[12:47]
mircea_popescu:	nevermind that, i'm asking about his algo	[12:47]
asciilifeform:	right, his algo follows 'dump truck' model. my orig one -- did not, it did exactly as mircea_popescu describes.	[12:48]
mircea_popescu:	(not a great lisper myself, but it seems to me here he got caught in the "since i won't be implementing the posix and gnupg bs yet, im not going to put the thing dependent on tyhem at its right place either, because i wanna fuck myself over")	[12:48]
phf:	the way btcbase does it is first pairs all patches by name (following our convention, but next by subst distance), processes those and what's left over is brute forced. algo though was implemented back when naming convention was in flux, so in practice it's o(n), but in reality it could approach o(n^2) if patch bucket is full of shit	[12:51]
esthlos:	ah I realized a fucked up the seal handling, thanks mircea_popescu	[12:52]
mircea_popescu:	you know, not a great graphs mind myself, but it seems to me our problem may admit better solutions eventually.	[12:52]
asciilifeform:	1 better-solution was already discussed : negrate bozo who signs a cycle-closing patch	[12:52]
mircea_popescu:	ah, cycles outta the question from the get go	[12:52]
asciilifeform:	( it is pointedly NOT an item that can be produced accidentally )	[12:52]
asciilifeform:	this abolishes the o(n^2) cyclicity detector. which is not wholly unlike 'running marathon in gas mask'	[12:53]
mircea_popescu:	consider the greater problem here asciilifeform : i give you a set of 1mn units of blockchain. you are to reconstruct their order.	[12:53]
mircea_popescu:	seriously, you're going to try n(n-1)/2 ?	[12:53]
phf:	wait, are we talking about the same thing? i thought conversation is about pairing patches with seals, how did cycles come into the picture?	[12:53]
asciilifeform:	phf: separate item, but ended up in same thread. it's the 1 quadratic algo left in proper-v	[12:54]
mircea_popescu:	phf he's the proverbial fox hunting dog that the fox ~doesn't even have to bat its tail~ for him to fork off.	[12:54]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: the fortunate thing is that -- supposing it were an actual, rather than 'alien' ( per http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-26#934853 ) problem -- it parallelizes.	[12:55]
a111:	Logged on 2014-11-26 01:11 asciilifeform: 'Id like to see one expression coined by the poker writer Matt Matros become common parlance, since it applies far more widely than only to poker. An alien problem means some problem that might be fun, interesting and educational to analyze, and it would be really important to know the solution if you ever found yourself in that situation, but the point is that you shouldn't even be having that problem in the first pl	[12:55]
mircea_popescu:	well since you squeeze me, here it is : i suspect the notion of "shouldn't even be having" is 100% pantsuit wank.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu:	there is no such thing in nature.	[12:55]
asciilifeform:	sure there is. it means that the builder made a wrong cut. e.g. edison's dc resistive losses.	[12:56]
asciilifeform:	'i gotta pay people to stand and hold this wall up'	[12:56]
mircea_popescu:	i understand how the ideal model is supposed to work.	[12:56]
mircea_popescu:	but the statement is that this is an in-universe, ie, fictive model. it dun work except as such.	[12:56]
asciilifeform:	plox to expand ?	[12:57]
mircea_popescu:	i will.	[12:57]
phf:	i thought kahn topo sort is trivially extendable with cycle detection? you just put another flag on the node for which you check	[12:57]
BingoBoingo:	Or wins lotto, gets Buggatti, injures your wall. People gotta stand and hold it up nao.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu:	consider the case of a doctor. guy comes into office, outputs a string doctor responds with some activity and some instruction problem gets better or doesn't.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu:	now consider the case of witch doctor. guy comes into office, outputs a string witch doctor responds with some activity and some instruction problem does not get better.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu:	witch doctor has gotten "99% of the way there" -- the only problem is the tail.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu:	so entrepreneurial witch doctor applies self to inventing problems he could actually solve, so as to flip "doesn't" into "does or doesn't".	[12:58]
mircea_popescu:	here it goes : "did you know, women, that before pantsuited hilarity clinton was invented, you had problems XYZ ? and that afterwards, these were resolved ?" "nope" "we'll... it's all recorded for all enternity-till-year-end on jezbel" "Where is this wonder ?" "oh, DO WE REALLY STILL HAVE TO ?!?! IN 2018 ?!?! WE'VE ALL MOVED PAST THAT!!!"	[12:59]
asciilifeform:	iirc original term of art was sumthinglike barnum's elephant-repellent	[13:00]
BingoBoingo:	!!up mircea_popescu	[13:01]
deedbot:	mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu:	check it out... somehow dc'd but the protected name still avail.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu:	nuts.	[13:01]
BingoBoingo:	AHA, crazy speed	[13:01]
mircea_popescu:	anyway -- an alien problem is a problem with a banal retrospective solution that doesn't exist. it works well for fiction, where one can say "and on planet x, people all walked with their nose in a clothespin, then our hero came in, told them to ditch the clothespins, AND THEREFORE WAS A HERO. AND IS!" ie, establishing shot.	[13:01]
BingoBoingo:	Perhaps the histamine overload is finally getting to fleanode	[13:01]
mircea_popescu:	but the fact that such a planet could never exist is left unadressed -- the needs of fiction are fictive.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu:	that make sense asciilifeform ?	[13:02]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: it makes sense. nevertheless, epicycles were abolished. the gymnastiscs of roman arithmetic are no longer here. and so on.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu:	"if you're watching it-- it's fior you" means, also, "if you have this problem, it's not an alien problem", or otherwise put "a study of alien problems is necessarily useless other than to prepare one for a life spent trying to write for jezbel"	[13:03]
asciilifeform:	the clothespin scenario unfortunately exists in life. see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759556	[13:03]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 14:20 mircea_popescu: nah. cleverness in humans is simply equivalent of what drunks call "a moment of lucidity", ie, stopped being indescribably fucking stupid for one god damned moment.	[13:03]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform but now merge these factual observations, which are correct BUT SUPERFICIAL, with your own knowledge on and around the scheuristic point of "coffin liners".	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	something was abolished, yes, but not THAT, and more important NOT LIKE THAT!	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	and newton didn't sit down to abolish them, either.	[13:04]
asciilifeform:	what, say, is 'v', other than 'hey whydontcha take off the clothespin'	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	this is ~unclear~.	[13:04]
mircea_popescu:	that's the major point here, that a categorical split ("oh, either problem or aproblem!") is based on no equivalent phenomenological split.	[13:04]
asciilifeform:	i can't speak for the good doctor newton. but asciilifeform specifically ~did~ target , for extermination, 'git' & related idiocies.	[13:05]
mircea_popescu:	far be it from me to impugn fiction as the primary driver of engineering effort.	[13:05]
asciilifeform:	they do all of the good of smallpox.	[13:05]
mircea_popescu:	nevertheless...	[13:05]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-07#1294036 << moar oldthread re subj	[13:06]
a111:	Logged on 2015-10-07 13:46 mircea_popescu: once newton/leibniz fixed notation, for instance, to take a very easy historical example,	[13:06]
asciilifeform:	correct mechanics of model ( aka notation ) for a problem , has the same effect as levers do in mechanical work	[13:07]
asciilifeform:	whether we're speaking of v, or of the introduction of polar coords, or lagrange's mechanics, etc	[13:07]
shinohai:	My how nuclear war has changed in just over half-century: http://archive.is/dDmZ9	[13:09]
asciilifeform:	to borrow BingoBoingo circa 2014 -- the correct solution to fat is... not to become fat rather than 'reach implements' and double-wide train seats	[13:09]
BingoBoingo:	Speaking of lunch today was a liter of chocolate milk and a tiny sandwich	[13:11]
shinohai:	Such Lordly fare.	[13:12]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform that many problems admit retrospective solutions is not at issue here the whole content of "i suspect the notion of "shouldn't even be having" is 100% pantsuit wank." is that "alien problems" are an artefact of the retelling of history (esp if with a purpose) rarther than of the making of history.	[13:12]
asciilifeform:	inescapably the shit-model is only revealed to be such, ~after~ the epicycles removed	[13:13]
asciilifeform:	how else.	[13:13]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[13:13]
mircea_popescu:	well, i thought it was being proposed as a forward looking heuristic.	[13:13]
asciilifeform:	it is only to very limited extent forward . ( recall the 'physicists have a duty to press for clean unification' asciilifeform thread )	[13:14]
mircea_popescu:	shinohai so apparently trump is aware neither button works wortha shit ?	[13:14]
asciilifeform:	'if the model is ugly, it's epicyclic even if we don't have the reduction yet' is an ideological, yes, position	[13:15]
mircea_popescu:	quite. nothing wrong with it, as such. but AS SUCH.	[13:15]
mircea_popescu:	consider as a fine applicaiton of recursion just how "ugly" (from a purely complexity-boundedness pov) this discussion of, let's recall, originally http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764040 got. and within a short time.	[13:16]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 17:45 mircea_popescu: poor esthlos, he was just looking for comments, not for insanity from bearded hell.	[13:16]
shinohai:	Ah but Best Korea no longer has just a switch, but a KEYBOARD	[13:16]
mircea_popescu:	also, "ugly because broken" ?	[13:16]
mircea_popescu:	shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-02#1762491	[13:16]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-02 16:49 mircea_popescu: consider this major point : in ancient greece, people were depicted with small penii large ones were considered bestial, comedic and insulting.	[13:16]
shinohai:	lolz	[13:17]
mircea_popescu:	maybe one of these days they build a... TOWER.	[13:17]
shinohai:	Now I am left wondering if there were ads all over ancient Greece selling dick-shrinking pills.	[13:17]
mircea_popescu:	indeed.	[13:18]
mircea_popescu:	astringents!	[13:18]
asciilifeform:	notice how most drawn human figures even today -- unless, i suppose, drawn by streicher -- have smaller, than in life, nose. but nobody thinks this is odd.	[13:19]
asciilifeform:	details proclaimed uninteresting -- get de-emphasized	[13:20]
mircea_popescu:	no, i know girl that thinks this is odd.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu:	and we're discussing here things such as athletic events (which yes, naked boys).	[13:20]
mircea_popescu:	(in fact -- in ancient greece clothing quite unmanly, for women and old folks)	[13:21]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763687 << the example used notwithstanding, i suspect this is a large portion of what goes on in, eg, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 "minds".	[13:22]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 14:53 asciilifeform: 'hardware isn't easy to build therefore couldn't possibly be necessary, the gods would not have made this level so hard, for me, the hero' or similar.	[13:22]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 16:38 mircea_popescu: but since we're doing retrospective trilemas, here's an item by way of example : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SXexf/?raw=true	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	howsthat	[13:22]
mircea_popescu:	well, suppose under-30 chickie runs into problem. what avenues of resolution are open to her ?	[13:23]
asciilifeform:	well:	[13:23]
mircea_popescu:	go to teacher/boss/great inca and say "this is an alien problem" meaning, "you gods shouldn't have made the maze so long for me, the rat"	[13:23]
mircea_popescu:	this eventually gets baked in.	[13:23]
asciilifeform:	'programs make use of recursion, iteration, and... uteration' -- asciilifeform's pet	[13:23]
asciilifeform:	that last one , refers to 'HULP, i'ma gurl, fix this..'	[13:24]
mircea_popescu:	"i shouldn't have to strip to get an A, i shouldn't have to suck cock to get a job, i shouldn't have to fuck the customer to keep it, i shouldn't have to..."	[13:24]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform lmao!	[13:24]
asciilifeform:	( in the spirit of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672530 )	[13:24]
a111:	Logged on 2017-06-20 17:19 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: stalin, supposedly, once said to his friends, 'history divides into three eras, matriarchate, patriarchate, and secretariate'	[13:24]
mircea_popescu:	problem with uteration is that it depends on castration.h	[13:24]
asciilifeform:	not necessarily. can also come in 'come back with yer shield, or on it' variant	[13:25]
mircea_popescu:	now THAT is a fine fucking example of a problem you don't want to ever have : when your problems are resolvable by whining it's not unlike when your washing is resolved by the ocean : you're fucked.	[13:25]
asciilifeform:	or in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-27#1743266 variant.	[13:26]
a111:	Logged on 2017-11-27 01:57 asciilifeform: 'Inainte baieti, nu va lasati, sunteti cu mine! Inainte! Razbunati-ma!'	[13:26]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform notice the "baieti", "boys"	[13:26]
asciilifeform:	in mircea_popescu's cosmography, the folx who banzai'd to avenge the chix , castrato ?	[13:27]
mircea_popescu:	this is a subtle matter. did they banzai "because such world as it is not worth my time" or did they "because her world must be defended!"	[13:28]
phf:	esthlos: i was wrong, i remember looking at knuth&plass implementation in elisp a decade ago, but it's not in mainline. incidentally you could wire own k&p into normal-auto-fill-function..	[13:28]
mircea_popescu:	ie, were they nazi or weren't they ?	[13:28]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: unfortunately i can't answer this, my ouijatron is broken...	[13:28]
mircea_popescu:	and in turn neither can i.	[13:29]
asciilifeform:	based on the type of man that at the time existed, and ~came out~ of the war -- i would conjecture : the former. rather than 'for her demoocracy'	[13:29]
mircea_popescu:	well, judging by the fact that it was socialist war not imperial (as the historical term) war, i would conjecture the latter.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu:	i expect most didn't even know why the fuck they're there.	[13:30]
asciilifeform:	dunno that 'isms' play into it. it's a firmware call, 'pet chix dismembered in front of you ? banzai'	[13:30]
mircea_popescu:	certainly previously they didn't, as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCLh51FhpA	[13:30]
asciilifeform:	!!up mircea_popescu	[13:31]
deedbot:	mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.	[13:31]
asciilifeform:	see also other banzais, e.g. '... Если немца убил твой брат, / Если немца убил сосед, — / Это брат и сосед твой мстят, / А тебе оправданья нет. / За чужой спиной не сидят,/ Из чужой винтовки не мстят ...'	[13:31]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform it IS the fundamental behaviour of male seeking though since sexuate species only has any use for some males...	[13:32]
mircea_popescu:	it's drone behaviour, what.	[13:32]
asciilifeform:	like all other fw calls, it's built into ~all~ of'em. like nipple.	[13:32]
asciilifeform:	the father of 4, will also banzai.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu:	i have my doubts.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu:	but certainly a possibility.	[13:34]
asciilifeform:	phenotype is not unlike 'qbasic', in that http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-10#614261	[13:35]
a111:	Logged on 2014-04-10 21:08 asciilifeform: phun phact. msdos 'edit' is actually 'qbasic', with the basic ineptly commented out - in such a way that the code is still buried in the binary.	[13:35]
esthlos:	phf: hmm	[13:35]
esthlos:	mircea_popescu: wrt the alien problem, you're saying the complexity is actual?	[13:38]
esthlos:	I've spent the last year or so trying to figure wtf happened to computing post-symbolics. still can't see the complexity which lead to the current disaster	[13:40]
esthlos:	guys like alan kay push a certain political narrative, but it doesnt add up	[13:41]
mircea_popescu:	esthlos im saying it's not clear. it might well be.	[13:42]
asciilifeform:	esthlos: sanity, esp when it has a short-term cost, is not the default. your null hypothesis is broken.	[13:42]
esthlos:	oh fun, the blog of the guile lead: http://wingolog.org/	[13:43]
asciilifeform:	why am i reading about e.g. '...ignorance about the lived experience of women compiler writers, say, can lead to hurtful behavior...' ?	[13:44]
phf:	esthlos: reflecting on it a bit, tricky part of k&p for plain text is de-hyphenating for reflow	[13:44]
asciilifeform:	'trying to get them closer to a justice-affirming perspective'	[13:45]
asciilifeform:	'the extent to which men's-rights-activist and racist talking points had made it into their discourse, and the way the individualist edifice of their world-view enabled their pre-fascist ideas'	[13:45]
esthlos:	for lulz	[13:45]
asciilifeform:	'My conclusion from the interaction is that, now more than ever, when it comes to future collaborators, in any context, it is important for anyone for whom justice matters to probe candidates deeply for fascist tendencies. If they show a sign, pass. Anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-queer, and anti-black behaviors and actions often correlate: if you see one sign, often there are more underneath. Even if the person claims to value egal	[13:45]
asciilifeform:	itarianism, the perspectives that guide their actions may not favor justice in your organization. '	[13:45]
asciilifeform:	http://wingolog.org/photos/photos/4051 << author.	[13:46]
BingoBoingo:	#Guessthegendar	[13:47]
phf:	that's my favorite photo http://wingolog.org/photos/photos/3482	[13:48]
esthlos:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764185 << bah, let me keep my youthful naviete a little longer	[13:48]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:42 asciilifeform: esthlos: sanity, esp when it has a short-term cost, is not the default. your null hypothesis is broken.	[13:48]
phf:	"Oh, good evening my hackfriends! I am just chuffed to share a thing with yall: tomorrow we release Guile 2.2.0. Yaaaay!"	[13:49]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-20#1436658 relevant thread	[13:50]
a111:	Logged on 2016-03-20 15:27 phf: guile is the old warhorse of the "scheme in emacs!!" agenda, pretty sure even naggum ranted about it	[13:50]
asciilifeform:	was massive, cancerous ball of autoconf and ???? even decade ago, aha.	[13:51]
BingoBoingo:	"This industry has a race problem, how do we fix it?"	[13:51]
phf:	well, it died from disinterest at some point, before the recent upswing of concerned citizens revived it as an excellent platform for cancer	[13:51]
BingoBoingo:	Well, could also demechanize agriculture...	[13:53]
phf:	riastradh and his type stuck to scheme48 and other sane, pre-eternal-sept implementations, professionals moved to plt scheme, so guile was looking to finally die. no such luck.	[13:54]
phf:	how does it go, wgah'nagl fhtagn	[13:55]
asciilifeform:	phf: naggum had a perl rant , re how it typifies fungus-growth media by supplying young cocklets with inexhaustible fountain of trivial breakages to 'cleverly' work around	[13:56]
asciilifeform:	guile appears to fit this pattern	[13:56]
esthlos:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 << "Oh really? I never guessed he was an actor. Touche." if only tlp was around...	[13:58]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 16:38 mircea_popescu: but since we're doing retrospective trilemas, here's an item by way of example : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SXexf/?raw=true	[13:58]
mircea_popescu:	consider, incidentally, re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764101 the impact of the whole "how many ring binders" discussion obviously the "resistence of the medium" threads also appropos	[14:06]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:05 asciilifeform: i can't speak for the good doctor newton. but asciilifeform specifically ~did~ target , for extermination, 'git' & related idiocies.	[14:06]
* mircea_popescu	realises that tmsr is principally an imperative programming language for actual intelligence (as opposed to the artificial kind) build around the "consider" statement.	[14:06]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763715 << quite exactly.	[14:07]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 15:10 ReadErr: well that wouldnt be any different than today	[14:07]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763726 << also quit exactly which is why "dollar MUST be accepted in payment" is important enough to print on the damned things. without that...	[14:08]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 15:14 asciilifeform: when you sell something for, e.g., dollar, you are in effect giving it away to the folks with the printing press.	[14:08]
BingoBoingo:	Relatit to an earlier point http://trilema.com/2015/varia-varietatis-or-your-all-about-the-mollusc-guide/#footnote_4_62816	[14:09]
mircea_popescu:	well, basically without that you end up with the femstate, as the next stop on the stupid tree. "can expropriate anything for public interest but cunt" results in the bizarro alt-world in usgstan.	[14:09]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763735 << hey i never heard that before.	[14:10]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 15:18 ReadErr: something just kinda clicked in my head	[14:10]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, shall hafta town bbl!	[14:10]
phf:	i was going to quote some choice naggum on guile, but it's 3 pages on xach's site, and it's very very unkind. interested parties are welcome to https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=guile	[14:13]
BingoBoingo:	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/periplus-1.jpg	[14:18]
ben_vulpes:	> i haven't tried this test yet << and you don't know that it only works on the feeble minded, literally anyone else is going to see exactly what you're doing and give the canned response that you want: "the patriarchy keeps women down and what is really called for is demoting and docking mens wages, and promoting science education for little girls, and generally eradicating the constructed gender binary so	[14:23]
ben_vulpes:	that we can all be treated truly equally at last long last"	[14:23]
ben_vulpes:	>> Unfortunately, one participant was stuck on free speech side of the debate. << kawaiiiiiii neh	[14:24]
ben_vulpes:	free speech fundamentalism is facism, because we sat around and wanked to the tune of logical programs and term equivalence, but skipped history of governmental organization 101	[14:25]
asciilifeform:	haskellism isn't particularly different from other pseudosciences pushed by socialistoid scum	[14:29]
phf:	ben_vulpes: oblig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4hP6nOB1dc	[14:30]
ben_vulpes:	phf: lol	[14:33]
ben_vulpes:	k i guess i gotta see or read this now	[14:33]
asciilifeform:	!!up rdfbdfg	[14:37]
deedbot:	rdfbdfg voiced for 30 minutes.	[14:37]
phf:	ben_vulpes: you've not seen american psycho? :o	[14:39]
phf:	or read for that matter, though i'm not sure if i prefer the book in this case.	[14:39]
ben_vulpes:	phf: i haven't watched much television or many movies full stop	[14:41]
ben_vulpes:	trilema reviews better use of time mostly anyways	[14:51]
phf:	ben_vulpes: there's actually an american pyscho trilema review!	[14:57]
ben_vulpes:	yes i know, in ro	[14:58]
asciilifeform:	in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )	[15:06]
asciilifeform:	sad.	[15:06]
asciilifeform:	essentially, 'yes we put srams in the fabric but they can't shift, fuckyou'	[15:07]
asciilifeform:	( likbez : all you need for the mythical holy grail, 'fast iron rsa', is a very large-bitnessed adder-cum-barrelshifter and a few storage registers that can be programmatically shuffled between. )	[15:10]
BingoBoingo:	In other news from the price is right department: "The personal information of more than a billion Indians stored in the world's largest biometric database can be bought online for less than $8, according to an investigation by an Indian newspaper."	[15:10]
asciilifeform:	~all ffa ops can be reduced to 'add-with-possible-2scomplement' and 'shift'.	[15:11]
asciilifeform:	( or rather, some finite sequence of these )	[15:11]
ReadErr:	asciilifeform: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/I5HQ0yxC/templedongOSxxx.png	[15:11]
ReadErr:	re: git	[15:11]
shinohai:	Well he's right about the cripple programming part	[15:15]
asciilifeform:	https://archive.is/FrBep << in other noose re intel crapola , in re the snowjob in particular	[15:15]
asciilifeform:	ReadErr: forget 'programming'. cripples ~thinking~.	[15:18]
asciilifeform:	ReadErr: when you 'download proggy from shithub', it is exactly same act as if you could, in a restaurant, order '1 cubic litre from public dump' as a dish. complete with whatever happens to be scopped out, used condoms, syringes, rotten vegetables, dead rats	[15:19]
asciilifeform:	*scooped	[15:19]
ben_vulpes:	btw how come nobody in the "stop rape culture!!11" world has done an indiestarter to build the vagina dentata from neal stephenson's snow crash?	[15:19]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: happened. is in the logs.	[15:20]
asciilifeform:	2014 iirc	[15:20]
asciilifeform:	( luckily for the idjits, was cynical scam, no actual teeth involved )	[15:20]
ReadErr:	lol	[15:21]
ben_vulpes:	hm i cannot find this wonder in the logs	[15:22]
phf:	ben_vulpes: http://rense.com/general6/ouch.htm, https://rape-axe.com/, http://www.sapiensbryan.com/femdefence-a-protection-against-rape/	[15:30]
phf:	i think the second one was in the logs	[15:30]
phf:	yw	[15:31]
ben_vulpes:	ty	[15:31]
ben_vulpes:	http://www.femdefence.info/	[15:31]
ben_vulpes:	free bible software download!	[15:31]
ben_vulpes:	really going for the big tent there	[15:31]
trinque:	https://rapeaxe.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/ra-large-3.jpg?w=1024 << lol what is this	[15:34]
trinque:	"oh deary me, please don't rape me sir"	[15:34]
ben_vulpes:	nearly tumblr rape gimpwork grade	[15:36]
ben_vulpes:	https://rapeaxe.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/cropped-21.jpg also	[15:37]
trinque:	clearly the definition of rape has by now expanded to "woman, shut the hell up!"	[15:41]
shinohai:	You don't even have to speak, trinque .... telepathic rape occurs if you masturbate while thinking of her without her consent.	[15:42]
trinque:	by that logic all of reddit just lost its virginity	[15:44]
shinohai:	lel	[15:44]
ben_vulpes:	eye contact also offensive	[15:46]
ben_vulpes:	that is one of the nicest things about this little town that i've moved to, all of the girls make eye contact and act feminine	[15:47]
danielpbarron:	!!up jpxe	[15:52]
deedbot:	jpxe voiced for 30 minutes.	[15:52]
danielpbarron:	use this one https://ghostbin.com/paste/v6ut9/raw	[15:52]
danielpbarron:	!!rate jpxe 1 aspiring ADA coder i found in the l0de chan	[15:53]
deedbot:	Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vvqhq/?raw=true	[15:53]
danielpbarron:	jpxe, ok you can voice yourself by typing /msg deedbot !!up	[15:57]
danielpbarron:	and it'll last till you disconnect rather than 30 mins	[15:57]
jpxe:	understood	[15:58]
danielpbarron:	there's a bunch of ongoing projects in here, and ADA is a prefered language	[15:58]
danielpbarron:	you can search the logs for all sorts of references	[15:59]
ben_vulpes:	so jpxe what sorta adastuffs are you working on	[15:59]
danielpbarron:	he was asking for a job so i asked if he had tits, he didn't, so i said do you know lisp or ada	[16:01]
danielpbarron:	i guess he's gonna learn himself some ada, or lisp if anyone wants. feel free to instruct him	[16:02]
asciilifeform:	start him with the obvious starting point ?	[16:02]
ben_vulpes:	jpxe: start at http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913	[16:02]
ben_vulpes:	and familiarize yourself with v ( http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system ), read logs for six months...	[16:03]
jpxe:	ben_vulpes: There a reason the first site doesn't use SSL?	[16:07]
danielpbarron:	we don't do https here	[16:08]
danielpbarron:	if you need something secure, do RSA	[16:08]
asciilifeform:	!#s ssl	[16:08]
a111:	589 results for "ssl", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ssl	[16:08]
asciilifeform:	jpxe ^ see also.	[16:08]
asciilifeform:	and, more generally speaking, jhvh1 ,	[16:10]
asciilifeform:	!#s pki	[16:10]
a111:	90 results for "pki", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pki	[16:10]
asciilifeform:	err, jpxe ^	[16:13]
ben_vulpes:	jpxe: ssl is shitty shit from commie joo empire	[16:14]
asciilifeform:	( this is almost possibly the first litmus for a n00b : will he read logs when told to ? show symptoms of actually having done so, and learne d? )	[16:14]
asciilifeform:	jpxe: see also trilema, e.g. http://trilema.com/2017/lets-revisit-the-google-is-irrelevant-discussion/#comment-123791 .	[16:15]
phf:	speaking of ssl everywhere, discovered this lulzy wontfix today, https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=436200	[16:15]
phf:	a forced popup that warns you that you're sending to http from https, but there's no about:config to disable the popup. 9 years of "ffs put a boolean in configs, you fucks"	[16:16]
ben_vulpes:	in other lols, my 1933 babar reprint just arrived and it is a delightful paen to colonialism	[16:25]
ben_vulpes:	2017's "a is for activist" -- b&. 1933's french colonial propaganda -- celebrated.	[16:25]
phf:	a is for aparheid, old boy, fancy a cop of tea?	[16:34]
ben_vulpes:	wot wot	[16:35]
deedbot:	http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/04/eucrypt-chapter-4-random-prime-number-generator/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 4: Random Prime Number Generator	[16:44]
phf:	^ http://btcbase.org/patches/eucrypt_ch4_rpng	[16:57]
diana_coman:	yay, thank you phf ! that was super-quick	[16:59]
phf:	yw, the process is becoming streamlined. next i need to make it pick up just new patches, rather than refresh the whole lot	[17:05]
asciilifeform:	oh hey neato	[17:29]
asciilifeform:	'top 2 bits and bottom bit are ALWAYS 1!' << asciilifeform still doesn't get why to weld the next-to-highest	[17:30]
ben_vulpes:	!up vap0r	[17:36]
ben_vulpes:	!!up vap0r	[17:36]
deedbot:	vap0r voiced for 30 minutes.	[17:36]
vap0r:	////// [ HOLY ASS FUCKIN THANKS FOR THE VOICE deedbot !! ] \\\	[17:36]
vap0r:	o>	[17:36]
vap0r:	thx	[17:36]
ben_vulpes:	np who are you	[17:36]
vap0r:	saw dpbs msg on my youtube link	[17:37]
vap0r:	im vap0r came here bcuz of dpb	[17:37]
danielpbarron:	oh are you efnet news guy?	[17:37]
vap0r:	ya	[17:37]
danielpbarron:	hahah cool	[17:37]
danielpbarron:	got a RSA key?	[17:37]
vap0r:	bandy here	[17:37]
vap0r:	im on phone but gimme a bit and ill get u one	[17:37]
danielpbarron:	well get it to deedbot	[17:37]
vap0r:	cool	[17:39]
danielpbarron:	https://youtu.be/tNXyichewJw << the link btw. i'm mentioned a little past half way	[17:41]
asciilifeform:	btw diana_coman , http://www.loper-os.org/pub/longlines.jpg << esp in light of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763999	[17:59]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 17:37 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at some point phf will implement a wordwrap which can be done for browser window.	[17:59]
asciilifeform:	some of diana_coman's lines are even longer than 120col	[18:00]
asciilifeform:	comments, i suppose, can be reflowed. but CODE DOES NOT REFLOW, it destroys indentation	[18:00]
asciilifeform:	why not stick to the ancestral 80col, folx??	[18:01]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764224 >> some very pertinent material, e.g. https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3071377465763593@naggum.no.html ,	[18:07]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 19:13 phf: i was going to quote some choice naggum on guile, but it's 3 pages on xach's site, and it's very very unkind. interested parties are welcome to https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=guile	[18:07]
asciilifeform:	>> '...when I look at Scheme programs that try to do more than trivial tasks, or at Scheme systems that try to give people a framework to work in, I get the "perl experience" -- heaps of ugly but useful hacks to get some short-term job done. seems to me that the flip side of the "only the most elegant are admitted" argument is that there is no lower bound on the ugliness of what is _not_ admitted, yet necessary to get there in pract	[18:08]
asciilifeform:	ice, and so anything goes.'	[18:08]
asciilifeform:	https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129441516179845@naggum.no.html << relatedly. >> 'the problem with retrofitting a Lisp or Scheme onto Unix is that Unix really is a C programming environment, and using the C mindset when building Lisp or Scheme applications or systems on top of it loses. the same is true of any other programming language with an environment that takes the role of Unix for C.'	[18:12]
asciilifeform:	( the latter discussion was about , approx, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-02#1678490 )	[18:13]
a111:	Logged on 2017-07-02 12:50 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-02#1678460 << how about we roll the boot time ( to shell!! ) of your cmachinekernel, how about?	[18:13]
asciilifeform:	and, to round off the archaeological dig, https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129467830883882@naggum.no.html >> 'the programming environment model in Unix is an imitation of the Lisp machine, and the way it is implemented is through processes and inter-process communication instead of function calls. functions in the Lisp heap are programs on disk in the Unix model. the optimizations that made Unix able to survive this incredible	[18:16]
asciilifeform:	inefficiency are bad for Lisp, which would have done it a lot better had it been in control, but GUILE doesn't do it any better. GUILE combines the worst of both worlds, in an attempt to bring the best of one world to a world where it doesn't really belong. on top of this, it's Scheme, and it's expensive to run, there's so much wrong with it that nobody can use it without fixing some part of it. so, it's going to be a winner, but	[18:16]
asciilifeform:	a real Lisp world would be so much better. however, a real Lisp world cannot win as long as GUILE is the image people have of a Lisp environment, just like Lisp has suffered tremendously from the Scheme people's insistence that Scheme as taught to college students is what they should expect from Lisp.'	[18:16]
diana_coman:	asciilifeform, tbh lines chopped tend to bother me I repeatedly tried (years/ages ago) the whole thing with 80cols, quick to read etc but... it still bothers me, what can I do that being said, I see there long comments line not code possibly some printfs in the tests that might be long I suppose	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	more or less all prog langs give a clean way to multilineize strings	[18:31]
asciilifeform:	( rather than arbitrary 'chop' )	[18:32]
diana_coman:	multi-line is still chop the way my brain reads	[18:33]
diana_coman:	I do try to keep otherwise lines relatively short mainly because no reason for very long but that in code not in comments, admitted and certainly not with some strict 80 char limit per se, true	[18:33]
* asciilifeform	as you can see from the pic, uses vertical displays. and when reading serious proggy , tends to send it to printer ! which - guesswhat - doesn't know how to reflow ( and if it did, would mangle indent and create unreadable soup )	[18:33]
diana_coman:	hm	[18:36]
asciilifeform:	diana_coman: i am one of those weirdos who still does a large amt of his programming -- and the bulk of his code-reading -- on paper.	[18:37]
diana_coman:	I do a lot of code-reading WITH paper + pencil but that means more writing than printing really	[18:38]
asciilifeform:	writing yes	[18:38]
asciilifeform:	generally my page will in the end have ~equal area of pencilmark and printerola	[18:39]
asciilifeform:	(at least.)	[18:39]
diana_coman:	and paper+writing a lot before any need for keyboard, but I still get annoyed at multi-line stuff that is ... one thing otherwise, ugh	[18:41]
* diana_coman	has just cleared desk again getting rid of a pile of papers used for this ch4	[18:41]
asciilifeform:	and speaking of this, asciilifeform is almost certainly doomed to properly texize ffa in the end. there are so few things more loathesome than reading MECHANICALLY REFLOWED code. whether line flow or page breaks.	[18:42]
diana_coman:	basically this would make some sense only if writing code in columns pretty much newspaper style I suppose	[18:42]
asciilifeform:	publishers used to pay professionals to do this. and it ~needed~ doing. whereas today one will routinely find 'technical' b00kz that look exactly like microshit-'word' printouts bound and covered, with line and page breaks scattered entirely arbitrarily	[18:43]
asciilifeform:	it is very grating on the nerves, to read such crapola	[18:44]
phf:	in a proper program 80 col is an indicator of s/n, density and all kinds of lateral properties, that can be communicated between professionals, because you can know ahead of time, what you're dealing with by shape, and have a rough estimate for the token count	[18:45]
asciilifeform:	^^^	[18:46]
asciilifeform:	it makes the 'loc' metric meaningful AT ALL to begin with, for starters !	[18:46]
diana_coman:	I suspect all of it, one way or the other IS a matter of habit really it might even be that I simply programmed overall too little compared to reading non-programming (programmed at school+uni+few years after that and then ran for the hills until I got drawn back because eulora)	[18:47]
asciilifeform:	iirc diana_coman started as a mathematician , neh ?	[18:47]
asciilifeform:	!!up Matthew	[18:47]
deedbot:	Matthew voiced for 30 minutes.	[18:47]
Matthew:	tyvm	[18:47]
asciilifeform:	who might you be, Matthew ?	[18:48]
Matthew:	im Matthew from efnet news	[18:48]
phf:	it is habit, and convention and all kinds of easily iconoclastible things. for example i can usually recognize a proper lisp program by its shape, but those are usually written by people who have established those conventions to begin with	[18:48]
Matthew:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNXyichewJw	[18:48]
asciilifeform:	phf: aha, i can always and immediately spot somebody who did not use slime or equivalent autoindenter	[18:49]
Matthew:	thank for allowing me to spam this podcast	[18:49]
diana_coman:	asciilifeform, no, not really studied at polytechnic uni Bucharest, automation and computers i.e. electrical engineer followed with data mining and that got totally fed up after "software engineering"	[18:49]
Matthew:	is daniel around	[18:49]
Matthew:	i wantd to talk to him	[18:49]
asciilifeform:	danielpbarron ?	[18:49]
Matthew:	yes	[18:49]
asciilifeform:	Matthew: hang around for a few hrs, he will probably come back	[18:50]
Matthew:	ill hang around forever	[18:50]
Matthew:	you are stuck with me now	[18:50]
asciilifeform:	Matthew: if you are looking for something danielpbarron said some time earlier, there is the log , http://btcbase.org/log	[18:50]
danielpbarron:	Matthew, what's up	[18:51]
asciilifeform:	diana_coman: neato.	[18:51]
asciilifeform:	from what asciilifeform has seen, life is often quite hard for actual-engineers who end up in programmerdom. sorta like shalamov's observation re folx from baltics, not only better-nutritioned and taller to begin with ( by itself gives higher 'idle rpm' ) but whose daily life was 'farther from gulag' , starved sooner than ru folx ( in particular rural )	[18:59]
asciilifeform:	( why ? e.g. naggum's canonical 'if all you need is for something to "work", and you don't give a damn when and how it fails, C++ and Perl is for you. if you care deeply about not having your software fail, you would naturally feel a correspondingly deep sense of betrayal from the authors of both languages -- because they make it so damn hard to express the fact that you do care about the failure modes.' )	[19:02]
Matthew:	danielpbarron: i was just trying to get some free cyrpto	[19:06]
Matthew:	and hear about a church	[19:06]
diana_coman:	heh, add to that the fact that I specifically got interested in computers initially for the very promise (to my mind at the time at least) that they are... reliable because programmable, see? such silly 17-yo mea	[19:06]
asciilifeform:	the free cyrpto is three doors down, Matthew	[19:06]
danielpbarron:	Matthew, register your RSA key with deedbot	[19:06]
Matthew:	idk how	[19:06]
Matthew:	forget the free coin	[19:06]
danielpbarron:	"tsk"	[19:06]
Matthew:	tell me about the church	[19:06]
Matthew:	i heard about u on EfnetNews 47	[19:07]
Matthew:	also spoke to u for a second the other night	[19:07]
Matthew:	in #efnetnews	[19:07]
danielpbarron:	well i don't wanna bore the channel with stuff you can easily learn from atruechurch.info	[19:07]
danielpbarron:	i was never in that channel, btw	[19:07]
asciilifeform:	diana_coman: picture, if su survived, you might be designing votingcircuit cpu for e.g. 'buran'	[19:07]
phf:	wut, half the horrible code i've seen is from actual engineers. usually unstructructured reams of potato code like they were taught to write matlab or fortran	[19:07]
Matthew:	'dpb	[19:07]
Matthew:	'dpb' was an imposter ?	[19:07]
danielpbarron:	i'm dpb on efnet, but i was never in that channel	[19:08]
asciilifeform:	phf: lemme guess, their beards, were not white ?	[19:08]
Matthew:	where did i speak to u at	[19:08]
danielpbarron:	lrh chan prolly	[19:08]
Matthew:	no	[19:09]
Matthew:	i dont go there	[19:09]
Matthew:	oh well it dont matter	[19:09]
diana_coman:	phf might be onto something in that functional programming was not mandatory for instance I took the course because I wanted to but I could have had no idea of it at all even, easily	[19:09]
shinohai:	From the dept. of Intel related lulzfest: http://archive.is/wvW7m	[19:09]
asciilifeform:	diana_coman: consider, not only 'programmable' but theoretically the only 'indestructible' machine yet built, where you can (at least in principle) replace ALL of the wear parts without stopping	[19:09]
phf:	their beards (and lack of) were of wide wariety. sure there are hypothetical ee's from 70s who switched to programming micros in the 80s who write god tier C, but bulk of them is not it	[19:10]
asciilifeform:	shinohai: prettygreat	[19:10]
diana_coman:	fwiw I take asciilifeform to mean the engineering approach vs current "programming" approach that has little to do with "engineer" diploma or not,sadly	[19:10]
asciilifeform:	right, 'engineer' is more a psychological term to asciilifeform , rather like rpg character class, than diploma.	[19:12]
Matthew:	http://trilema.com/2016/cia-factbook-the-most-serene-republic/	[19:13]
Matthew:	you guys wrote this yourself right	[19:13]
asciilifeform:	Matthew: that's mircea_popescu's www.	[19:14]
Matthew:	oh	[19:14]
diana_coman:	where his very self tends to write too, yes	[19:14]
Matthew:	ok fair enough	[19:15]
diana_coman:	asciilifeform, theoretically yes at that time though I did not even go that far and it still proved to be wishful thinking	[19:17]
diana_coman:	shinohai, lol!	[19:18]
shinohai:	"We did it reddit!" in 3...	[19:19]
mircea_popescu:	dun dun dun!	[19:35]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763733 << consider the concept of "turkey dollars" http://trilema.com/2012/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this-entire-deflation-problem/	[19:40]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 15:18 ReadErr: hmm	[19:40]
mircea_popescu:	i don't get it, what else is there ? usg wrote its fanfic itself too.	[19:44]
mircea_popescu:	imagine the lulz, "circumspect" reporter going into white house alt-reality distortion field festival, "hmm... you guys came up with this shit yourselves, right ?"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu:	yeah, i expect so. certainly they didn't go about collecting best-kim-ung's oppinions.	[19:45]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763745 << /me dutifully follows, and duly falls upon "2) What was not implemented until recently was functions returning unconstrained arrays. This is a very tricky thing to do, as I'll describe in a moment. The week before Tri-Ada, I added a temporary, kludgy implementation to GNAT. About the only thing it had to say for itself is that it worked, but it creates serious memory leaks. It	[19:50]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 15:33 asciilifeform: !~later tell spyked http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2026&cpage=1#comment-18564	[19:50]
mircea_popescu:	is not intended as a final implementation." (the original 80wrap braindamage has been fixed). I CAN SCARCELY APPREHEND ETC	[19:50]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763753 << right, "fascist" is "what pantsuit calls non-pantsuit". ye olde http://trilema.com/2013/racists-and-socialists/ story.	[19:52]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 15:55 phf: heh "Classification of Dugin as a fascist is justified, regardless of the fact that today the MGU professor frequently speaks not as a primitive ethnocentrist or biological racist. (...) By «fascist» we understand the «generic» meaning of the concept, used in comparatory research of contemporary right-wing extremism by such well-known historians-comparativists [etc.]	[19:52]
mircea_popescu:	aaand in other "ugly teeth run in the family" news, http://78.media.tumblr.com/2620b35ac849769e1e1c6e8b9ad7416e/tumblr_my5xgeZoPf1rmux9jo1_1280.jpg	[19:53]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: the secondary stack thing worx correctly in modern-day gnat. but i banned it. ( because it makes reading disasmed binariolade harder reasoning about the semantics of the latter -- also harder and consumes very scarce, on small embedded chips, memory , imho needlessly )	[20:03]
mircea_popescu:	but WHY would someone involved DO THIS. it's like dentist going "and here's a squirrel i put wooden teeth into. they were plywood and didn't work very well, it's not intended for geriatric care"	[20:04]
mircea_popescu:	motherfucker, why the pointless animal cruelty! not like you didn't know plywood dun work for this application.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu:	WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN	[20:04]
asciilifeform:	presumably was done to implement 100% of the standard.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu:	standard had memorly leaks in it ?	[20:05]
asciilifeform:	which , as written , requires secondarystackism	[20:05]
asciilifeform:	it isn't a leak, as such, isn't a heap	[20:05]
shinohai:	Comedy that ben_vulpes might enjoy: http://archive.is/9gkfT "If we see more female figures on traffic lights that might also have a positive impact on changing the way we view the world."	[20:05]
mircea_popescu:	now THAT is an example of "item you should not have to fix, you should not make in first place". no memory leak ever was naturally occuring. it's not like indigestion, it's like nails hammered into skull.	[20:05]
ben_vulpes:	> memorly << prett good coinage	[20:06]
mircea_popescu:	shinohai maybe if young and topless.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu:	ben_vulpes :p	[20:06]
asciilifeform:	again secondarystack is not implemented as an open-ended (unboundedly growing) item	[20:06]
mircea_popescu:	so ?	[20:06]
asciilifeform:	in any adatron that i know of	[20:06]
asciilifeform:	so it is incorrect to say 'memory leak'.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu:	man's own words.	[20:06]
mircea_popescu:	i quoed.	[20:06]
asciilifeform:	just like it isn't ebola, or tin pest.	[20:06]
ben_vulpes:	shinohai: i'll put it on the budget lolz shelf	[20:07]
asciilifeform:	oh hah he does describe how his managed to leak.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu:	"it worked, but it created serious memory leaks" is, of and by itself, diagnosable string. not even indicative, dispositive outright!	[20:07]
asciilifeform:	( failed to unwind the stack )	[20:07]
asciilifeform:	so mircea_popescu has it	[20:07]
asciilifeform:	( though will point out, consequences of this type of leak, is early death of the proggy, rather than 'ballons into red dwarf' a la prb or firefox )	[20:08]
mircea_popescu:	it's not even "i wrote something that DIDNT WORK". that, is one thing. here, he wrote something, he evaluated it as "works", BUT.	[20:08]
ben_vulpes:	what is with these retards and their untestable hypotheses anyways, "this might blablabla the whateverwhatever". nigga can you not design an experiment? or might it be that the necessary experiments are actually impossible given the impossibility of baking metrics and disambiguating confounding factors?	[20:08]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: ~whole field consists of 'it works, BUT...'	[20:08]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform what concerns me is the man's self-evaluator. "i went to battle with the electric fence i won, but..."	[20:08]
ben_vulpes:	in other news, lowtax state of wa remarkably efficient in stark comparison to hightax state of or.	[20:08]
asciilifeform:	and i find it especially infuriating when they slither into islands of sanity like ada	[20:09]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform mostly because nobody says ~above.	[20:09]
asciilifeform:	and see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764397 .	[20:09]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-05 00:02 asciilifeform: ( why ? e.g. naggum's canonical 'if all you need is for something to "work", and you don't give a damn when and how it fails, C++ and Perl is for you. if you care deeply about not having your software fail, you would naturally feel a correspondingly deep sense of betrayal from the authors of both languages -- because they make it so damn hard to express the fact that you do care about the failure modes.' )	[20:09]
mircea_popescu:	hang on i'm working through them monsterlogs.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu:	ben_vulpes it could also be that there's so much metrage of dead air to fill and so very little to fill it with. "this may be an entertaining talkshow it isn't, of course, but... WSOD!!!"	[20:11]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764095 << scheuristic, ie, the schelling heuristic. like a point, except a heuristic. btw, is the point clear there ? not that "epicycles weren't abolished", but that "the substantial difference between the real item, ie, epicycles, which were so abolished, and the pantsuitology item, ie clothespin, which never existed, is exactly of the nature of defeated-enemy vs defeated-strawman" ?	[20:17]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but now merge these factual observations, which are correct BUT SUPERFICIAL, with your own knowledge on and around the scheuristic point of "coffin liners".	[20:17]
mircea_popescu:	it should be evident that 1. i can argue for epicycles and 2. unless you're at least this tall to ride (which is -- MUCH taller than average college professor), you CAN NOT dispel them out of my hand.	[20:18]
mircea_popescu:	whereas nobody can argue for clothespins.	[20:18]
asciilifeform:	the pantsuit picture is then presumably that somebody 'sat down to impose epicycles' ( in the spirit of 'newton sat down to...' ) ?	[20:18]
mircea_popescu:	no, but rather than talking of the genuine item, ie, epicycles, they talk of entirely fictitious item, ie, "human rights".	[20:18]
mircea_popescu:	here's a point of discussion : in the palace of versailles, the desicated excrement in the corners of the hallways was swept away once a week.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu:	this is uninteresting until you stop to consider that the "fascist" ancien regime (that's the word you'd use today, right ?) did NOT have the fucking ability to deny people taking a shit when they felt like taking a shit.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu:	seems to me a fucking human right, this. neh ?	[20:19]
asciilifeform:	not that it's a bad example, but 'human rights' is 'easy' bunkum , unlikely to be confused with a physically-existing item except by the deliberately mendacious folks and their useful idiots	[20:19]
mircea_popescu:	or is it the case that we pick and choose, and who "we" is matters, and so on etcetera.	[20:20]
mircea_popescu:	what fucking human rights. they're not a kind of epicycles, they're a kind of jokicicles.	[20:20]
asciilifeform:	more dangerous is the gabriel_laddel-style confusion, 'i dun need no book-larnin', classical mechanics is for squares, i'ma straight to genius and discovery'	[20:20]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform now find "alien idea" device applied to physically existing item.	[20:20]
mircea_popescu:	(ftr, "epicycles" here is a categorical term to describe an array of fixes attempted to bring ptolemaic system astrology in line with observable reality)	[20:21]
asciilifeform:	here's a trivial corpse of an epicycle straight from asciilifeform's desk : normalization in bignummery	[20:21]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform i wish to see text where this item is called "alien problem".	[20:21]
asciilifeform:	the memory gymnastics in mpi. and 'for your convenience, we will package the defective transistors separately!11' , i'll call it here	[20:22]
asciilifeform:	'alien problem'. done?	[20:22]
mircea_popescu:	what, ex post facto like that ?	[20:22]
asciilifeform:	the shoe fits, neh ?	[20:22]
mircea_popescu:	fine, you rescued what was previously 100% pantsuit wank into a 99.(9)% item.	[20:22]
asciilifeform:	none of those problems exist when you fix the bitness.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu:	ARE YOU HAPPY NAO	[20:22]
asciilifeform:	lolk	[20:22]
asciilifeform:	and i'll point out that orig term was not coined in pantsuitistan, but by ilkka k, a surprisingly sane mathematics d00d	[20:23]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, this is EXACTLY what drives the "toxic fax" wank : that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764490	[20:23]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-05 01:18 mircea_popescu: it should be evident that 1. i can argue for epicycles and 2. unless you're at least this tall to ride (which is -- MUCH taller than average college professor), you CAN NOT dispel them out of my hand.	[20:23]
BingoBoingo:	<asciilifeform> diana_coman: picture, if su survived, you might be designing votingcircuit cpu for e.g. 'buran' << In veintenary switches!	[20:23]
asciilifeform:	lol	[20:23]
mircea_popescu:	so following recursively down the rabbit hole (see http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-31#1761834 ) it then follows that this being a problem "they shouldn't have to have" etcetera.	[20:24]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-31 16:39 mircea_popescu: don't lie, because if you do you form a sort of mental habit that will prevent you from ever inventing anything.	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	pretty much every boy thinks that the maths he hasn't learned yet, 'is epicycle'	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	!#s fermat crackpots	[20:24]
a111:	0 results for "fermat crackpots", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=fermat%20crackpots	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	hmm	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	!#s elementary fermat	[20:24]
a111:	5 results for "elementary fermat", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=elementary%20fermat	[20:24]
asciilifeform:	^ see also.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu:	it'd also be RATHER FUCKING SHOCKING just how much intelligence is needed to merely maintain the border between "tru science" and "discredited paradigm".	[20:25]
asciilifeform:	( e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-07#1679837 )	[20:25]
a111:	Logged on 2017-07-07 01:17 asciilifeform: wiles, see, 'doesn't count' because 'too long and uses things not taught in kindergarten and wtf is this'	[20:25]
mircea_popescu:	exactly because "technology helps the theives too, is policework-neutral overall" phenomenon.	[20:25]
mircea_popescu:	"oh, DO WE STILL HAVE TO DO THIS ?!?!?! IN 2018 ?!?! EPICYCLES ?!?!?". gimme a break, you can't light a fucking lightbulb.	[20:26]
asciilifeform:	the saving grace is that it is not , in practice, usually difficult to distinguish the folx who are at least earnestly shooting for maxwellization ( and prepared to acknowledge failure THEIR ~personal~ failure ) from the gabriel_laddels	[20:27]
mircea_popescu:	im not even sure about that much.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu:	it is easy to come up with a partition one can live with himself.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu:	it is notoriously difficult for fathers to pick competent sons for daughters / stalins to pick competent successors etc.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu:	s/sons/husbands/ w/e.	[20:28]
asciilifeform:	the litmus asciilifeform lives with is, roughly: show him a pertinent item made of 'maths he hasn't learned' is response 'hmm, lemme disappear for a week into my study and come back' or ... 'I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO !111'	[20:29]
mircea_popescu:	maybe.	[20:29]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: it is especially difficult for fathers with... nothing to pick from	[20:29]
mircea_popescu:	this is the case at least 50% of the time throughout history.	[20:30]
asciilifeform:	'to pull rabbit from a hat, he must be actually in the hat'	[20:30]
mircea_popescu:	consider the case of "evil" scientists that were WRONG	[20:30]
mircea_popescu:	such as you know, "please wash your hands" doctor.	[20:30]
asciilifeform:	pretty good example	[20:30]
mircea_popescu:	no shortage.	[20:30]
asciilifeform:	aha	[20:30]
mircea_popescu:	yes, heuristics exist, and can be used. that's about it.	[20:31]
asciilifeform:	that's the only it.	[20:31]
asciilifeform:	the gods only dropped heuristics, not revelations.	[20:31]
mircea_popescu:	now then, back to the issue : i suspect "alien problem" is a worse than useless heuristic, in the exact sense "web metric" are a worse than useless management aid.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu:	in that it does little more than veneer bias into some kind of dysfunctional reification.	[20:32]
asciilifeform:	what's the dysfunctional veneering in saying to the fat-tard 'stop having become fat' rather than 'here is how to rework train seats everywhere' ?	[20:33]
mircea_popescu:	the epicycles, before removal, a) had a history whcih b) was understood by the removers. the "alien problem" is how lazy jwz say "i don't want to read", by and large.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform there's a difference between poet ignoring language convention and junior high "innocent bystander who happens to be black" ignoring same.	[20:34]
asciilifeform:	'alien problem' is how one says to the folx who maneuver themselves into a dead end, and who very much were architects of their own misfortune, that their problems are NOT 'the problem of all mankind' and that to construct for them 'solutions', such as they would accept, is harmful to the sane	[20:35]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform the train seats issue is particularly iffy, considering how japanese did rework in 70s.	[20:35]
mircea_popescu:	60s, w/e.	[20:35]
asciilifeform:	this is again the 'i can tell gabriel_laddel from maxwell' . asciilifeform , and mircea_popescu , and any sane folx can trivially distinguish 'less malnutrited japanese' from 'mcfood-eater' transformations	[20:36]
asciilifeform:	this is the wine-with-chickenshit-subtracted from yesterday's thread.	[20:36]
mircea_popescu:	you just restated http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704268	[20:37]
a111:	Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."	[20:37]
asciilifeform:	it's true, whether or not i restate it, lol	[20:37]
mircea_popescu:	well, so then, "alien problem is how an authority may choose to communicate the excommunication of a class of activity" lel.	[20:38]
mircea_popescu:	but in any case, i'm satisfied this ass was well beaten to pulp.	[20:39]
asciilifeform:	it is that. but also imho a reasonable engineering term. it describes the engineering equivalent of obesity	[20:39]
asciilifeform:	aite	[20:39]
BingoBoingo:	You know who loves making fun of the Obese: Latinos	[20:40]
mircea_popescu:	btw, you ever read tiganiada ? did i ask this before ?	[20:40]
mircea_popescu:	i suspect at level where might well enjoy it	[20:40]
asciilifeform:	it's on the list, from old thread	[20:40]
asciilifeform:	not yet eaten by asciilifeform , nope	[20:40]
mircea_popescu:	ah yes, cool.	[20:41]
asciilifeform:	asciilifeform currently reading various fairytales.	[20:41]
mircea_popescu:	some good stuff there.	[20:42]
asciilifeform:	oohyea	[20:42]
* asciilifeform	just had quite interesting conv with pet re the harsh 'cold equations' light of 'fefeleaga' vs the socialisto-gunk of 'les miserables'	[20:43]
mircea_popescu:	ikr ?	[20:43]
mircea_popescu:	"human rights" hurr. nobody reading that thought "o hey, how great, old woman gets ground into the dirt". HOWEVER, the difference between sane person and moderntard is that they also didn't go "HEY, PIXIE DUST!!! MAKE ALL BETTER!!!"	[20:44]
mircea_popescu:	what fucking better.	[20:44]
BingoBoingo:	!~ticker --market all	[20:44]
jhvh1:	BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 15114.99, vol: 14781.61107198 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 15077.0, vol: 44836.08867496 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 15209.0, vol: 3536.72083144 \| Volume-weighted last average: 15093.2839045	[20:44]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764183 << alan kay is actually not so greatly regarded here or at least by me. certainly not his later meta stuff.	[20:46]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:41 esthlos: guys like alan kay push a certain political narrative, but it doesnt add up	[20:46]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764186 << so i dutifully follow, and i duly end up on " I have a new interview question, and you can have it too: "The industry has a gender balance problem. Why is this?" [ed: see postscript]"	[20:49]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:43 esthlos: oh fun, the blog of the guile lead: http://wingolog.org/	[20:49]
mircea_popescu:	motherfucker... NOBODY CARES. seriouyslty now. it makes exactly zero difference for any practical purpose "in the industry" whether you chain up all the women and sell them off to martians.	[20:50]
mircea_popescu:	all these fucktards "being involved" in various topics through insistently discussing what they read in hustler. jacking off doesn't make you a beautician/car mechanic/architect/dentist/etcetera. it may make you blind, apparently, to the world around, but whatevs.	[20:50]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764187 << yeah, like http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/privilege-linguists.jpg	[20:51]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:44 asciilifeform: why am i reading about e.g. '...ignorance about the lived experience of women compiler writers, say, can lead to hurtful behavior...' ?	[20:51]
mircea_popescu:	http://wingolog.org/archives/2017/09/05/a-new-interview-question#cd7ce15868f2195baa8586069393901a4b2e182e for the record.	[20:53]
mircea_popescu:	!#s andy wingo	[20:54]
a111:	0 results for "andy wingo", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=andy%20wingo	[20:54]
mircea_popescu:	shocking.	[20:54]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764188 << why dehyphenate at all ?	[20:55]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:44 phf: esthlos: reflecting on it a bit, tricky part of k&p for plain text is de-hyphenating for reflow	[20:55]
mircea_popescu:	i do not wish to see de-hyphenate or chumpa-tron split up.	[20:55]
mircea_popescu:	!~google wgah'nagl fhtagn	[20:59]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: Citations:ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah ' nagl fhtagn ...: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Citations:ph%2527nglui_mglw%2527nafh_Cthulhu_R%2527lyeh_wgah%2527nagl_fhtagn> ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah ' nagl fhtagn - Wiktionary: <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ph%2527nglui_mglw%2527nafh_Cthulhu_R%2527lyeh_wgah%2527nagl_fhtagn> Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah ' nagl fhtagn - (1 more message)	[20:59]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764210 << kinda unfortunate he disappeared yeah.	[21:02]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 18:58 esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 << "Oh really? I never guessed he was an actor. Touche." if only tlp was around...	[21:02]
hanbot:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763821 << lol "what did you run into?" "an article about rape." oh, THAT one.... about as useful a criterion for a trilema article by now as "has sentences" and "occasionally punctuated"	[21:07]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 16:38 mircea_popescu: but since we're doing retrospective trilemas, here's an item by way of example : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SXexf/?raw=true	[21:07]
mircea_popescu:	yeah, trilema not a very good field for the "oh, ima be vague" approach. it's called trilema because it has at least three of everything!	[21:08]
mircea_popescu:	"intelligence is only a labor-saving device. less intelligent people can in principle create just as elegant solutions, but it would normally take them more effort to get there." <<< ajhaha NO! FUCKING! WAY!	[21:10]
phf:	why hyphenate or why dehyphenate? the first is not necessary but reduces the value of k&s since basically there's very little play available with monospaced spaces	[21:10]
mircea_popescu:	phf but hyphens are fundamentally different from spaces. the two are not semantically equivalent.	[21:11]
mircea_popescu:	this is like starting a new paragraph on double \n and also on double l.	[21:11]
phf:	no no, the reason why i bring up space is that you basically have two things that k&s can play with: hyphenation and elastic spaces. the two are balanced in some magical way	[21:12]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, re the naggum quote above : a better statement would be to say that every problem comes with an iq functional which could be approximated as a (x-fiq)^3 + b(x-fiq) the a, b and fiq are parameters of the problem, the x is where the solver's iq goes. if his iq is lower than the fiq required by the problem, his "work" comes out negative.	[21:13]
mircea_popescu:	the rules for adding multiple xn together are more complex than straight addition, but not complex enough to manage a positive out of negatives.	[21:13]
phf:	when you eliminate hyphenation as a concern, you're just left with elastic spaces, but you don't have those in monospace plain text. you just have full sized spaces, but their granularity is so high as to be almost useless	[21:14]
mircea_popescu:	phf a 120 col line will contain a number of words distriburted around 23.7 this means your spaces being elastic works to some degree. i will hold up trilema as an example of this, would you say elastic spaces are not working for it ?	[21:15]
phf:	elastic spaces in this case means variable width spaces. you can't have that in plain text. you can either have foo_bar or foo__bar or ...	[21:18]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764226 << either that or "either you produce a naked female employee on her knees right this second, or else your fucktarded shenanigans just cost you a 580% salary increase for being a bunch of repugnant scum"	[21:19]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 19:23 ben_vulpes: > i haven't tried this test yet << and you don't know that it only works on the feeble minded, literally anyone else is going to see exactly what you're doing and give the canned response that you want: "the patriarchy keeps women down and what is really called for is demoting and docking mens wages, and promoting science education for little girls, and generally eradicating the constructed gender binary so	[21:19]
mircea_popescu:	phf do i have to screenshot this ?	[21:19]
mircea_popescu:	http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ << third paragraph, 1st line space is 160% of 2nd line	[21:19]
phf:	might need a screenshot, i'm not seeing that on my machine (or possibly also being dense)	[21:22]
mircea_popescu:	(upon actual measurement, notrly, 1st 368 to 381 vs 2nd 186 to 197 vs 3rd 232 to 242 so 13, 11, 10 etc. )	[21:22]
mircea_popescu:	phf http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/trilema-spaces.png ?	[21:23]
mircea_popescu:	(last line 661 to 669, so 8 from 13 to 8 the variation indeed is 160% so hah!	[21:24]
phf:	right, but you can't do that in plain text file	[21:27]
mircea_popescu:	phf incidentally, which 3 pages did you mean ? xach search returns like 50	[21:27]
mircea_popescu:	phf who the fuck sez ?	[21:27]
mircea_popescu:	(+if my articles aren't plaintext what are they bonus)	[21:27]
* asciilifeform	ended up reading all 3 pgs ( of results, plural ! )	[21:28]
asciilifeform:	much goodstuff	[21:28]
mircea_popescu:	it is, but i was curious re what he meant.	[21:28]
phf:	oh oh, algo (and the machinery) being discussed is for hard line reflow. (you run M-q in emacs and it'll reflow the paragraph for you with newlines introduced)	[21:28]
mircea_popescu:	ah	[21:29]
mircea_popescu:	bs.	[21:29]
phf:	:D	[21:29]
mircea_popescu:	the day i want the machine to write text for me ima just buy all the girls strapons and they can fuck each other too	[21:29]
phf:	write text?	[21:29]
mircea_popescu:	while i watch mad max the future or whatever the fuck i'd do in this weird crapsack world	[21:30]
mircea_popescu:	phf yes.	[21:30]
phf:	whyyyyy	[21:30]
mircea_popescu:	i dunno, you want it to stuff \n in there for you.	[21:30]
mircea_popescu:	why not also the interjection "you know ?" or i guess "mon"	[21:30]
asciilifeform:	fwiw i linebreakulate by hand	[21:30]
mircea_popescu:	me too. ONCE PER FUCKING PARAGRAPH.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu:	but i guess if emacs feels the sentence needs more random gibberish instilled who am i to not permit it.	[21:31]
asciilifeform:	( to 80col. when writing proggy. to mircea_popescutronic 1 per para, when writing human. )	[21:31]
asciilifeform:	proggy ain't reflowable.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform you seriously \ out oo-cpp gnarl to 80 ?	[21:32]
mircea_popescu:	like, 40 line procedure calls and shit ?	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	i dun write those, wtf	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	alienproblem!11	[21:32]
mircea_popescu:	oh oh oh I SEE HOW IT IS	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	srsly why	[21:32]
mircea_popescu:	what if one dayu you have to read cpp videocard stuff ? what THEN ?	[21:32]
mircea_popescu:	special pleading city over here.	[21:32]
asciilifeform:	where is this, why not show	[21:33]
mircea_popescu:	i tell you if the shit was multiple lines per line i would just exudate my lungs through the skinpores on my back out of sheer fury.	[21:33]
asciilifeform:	whereas if i find myself EVER horizontalscrolling, insta-barf	[21:34]
asciilifeform:	and if i can't print it without indent-destroying reflow, or use of tiny letters, ditto	[21:34]
phf:	well, luckily mp doesn't produce v patches, so this a non-issue	[21:35]
* phf	ducks	[21:35]
asciilifeform:	lol	[21:35]
asciilifeform:	srsly non80col proggy has burden of justifying the 'wtf, why', just like nonstandard railroad gauge	[21:35]
mircea_popescu:	so you want "\t\t\t\t\tcsRef<iMeshWrapperIterator> objectIter = engine->GetNearbyMeshes(mesh->GetMovable()->GetSectors()->Get(0), oldpos + boundingBox.GetCenter(), boundingBox.GetSize().Norm() * 2)" to be instead	[21:36]
mircea_popescu:	\t\t\t\t\tcsRef<iMeshWrapperIterator> objectIter = engine->\	[21:36]
mircea_popescu:	GetNearbyMeshes(mesh->GetMovable()->GetSectors()->Get(0), oldpos + boundingBox.\	[21:36]
mircea_popescu:	GetCenter(), boundingBox.GetSize().Norm() * 2)	[21:36]
mircea_popescu:	?	[21:36]
asciilifeform:	this dun render unambiguously on me terminal	[21:36]
asciilifeform:	paste plox ?	[21:36]
asciilifeform:	meanwhile observe asciilifeform's formatting in ffa	[21:37]
mircea_popescu:	http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XJQ6d/?raw=true	[21:37]
asciilifeform:	i.e. if function call simple, i.e. fits on 1 line -- then 1line if not -- then 1 arg per line.	[21:38]
mircea_popescu:	phf omfg is that phfatry opressing me ?!	[21:38]
asciilifeform:	leaves room for comments also.	[21:38]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform yeah, this lispier way is much better.	[21:38]
asciilifeform:	so answer to mircea_popescu's q is, neither !	[21:38]
mircea_popescu:	heh.	[21:39]
phf:	mircea_popescu: you don't necessarily need to introduce a break, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764371	[21:39]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 23:45 phf: in a proper program 80 col is an indicator of s/n, density and all kinds of lateral properties, that can be communicated between professionals, because you can know ahead of time, what you're dealing with by shape, and have a rough estimate for the token count	[21:39]
mircea_popescu:	but at issue here aere the comments and make no mistake about it -- since we're doing the whole literate thing this is very important.	[21:39]
phf:	so a dangle like that is an indicator. in fact a dangle like that usually exists in programs that don't 80 column. but sometimes a dangle like that might just be necessary	[21:40]
mircea_popescu:	phf i've little problem with people writing code in whatever line lengths they want to. but comments of arbitrary cut are infuriating (though admittedly 80col not nearly so much as 50whatever)	[21:40]
asciilifeform:	if your cut is substantially below 80, it is merely annoying and wasteful of vertical. however if ~above~ 80, it makes yer code unprintable without substantial rework	[21:41]
asciilifeform:	( can do ~120 on a4 if pressed. but leaves little margin room to write in )	[21:42]
* mircea_popescu	will link here http://trilema.com/2017/how-the-beastforumcom-private-messaging-function-became-a-paid-user-only-item/#selection-83.0-83.18 because heh.	[21:42]
mircea_popescu:	ONE LINE!	[21:42]
asciilifeform:	lol why not link obfuscatedccontest also	[21:43]
mircea_popescu:	only a coupla kb.	[21:43]
asciilifeform:	with the cock-shaped codes	[21:43]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform unlike said contest, this snipped had real world impact!	[21:43]
ben_vulpes:	now that we've done indentation, how about aligning variables on the right side of = operators	[21:44]
mircea_popescu:	are we even done ? /	[21:44]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: observe again style in ffa	[21:44]
ben_vulpes:	or even aligning the = operators themselves	[21:44]
asciilifeform:	declarations ditto	[21:44]
asciilifeform:	align, imho, all that can be aligned. does wonders for reading.	[21:45]
mircea_popescu:	hm.	[21:45]
phf:	c had a somewhat right idea with ident :p you feed a proggy in, it force formats it for you	[21:45]
mircea_popescu:	this is not even a bad argument. fixwidth speeds scan for code for sure.	[21:45]
asciilifeform:	e.g. http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch4_ffacalc#L205	[21:46]
mircea_popescu:	is the conclusion of this standards board discussion that "fu mp, live with 80col comments, we're not gonna reflow shit for you" then ?	[21:46]
asciilifeform:	phf: i force-format my ada. this only affects indents tho	[21:46]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: imho 1 lf per para is The Right Thing ~in humanolade strictly~	[21:46]
asciilifeform:	where autoreflow does therighthing ~100%	[21:47]
asciilifeform:	but in proggy -- 80col ideal.	[21:47]
mircea_popescu:	i can't come up with any good counters.	[21:47]
ben_vulpes:	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp?v=makefiles#1848 << and fuck you if you want to make a command with a name more than 1char longer than "walletpassphrasechange"	[21:48]
mircea_popescu:	oh btw -- variable names like that fucking suck.	[21:49]
mircea_popescu:	we need a named item grammar.	[21:49]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: make, why not. then it gets to be 2line	[21:49]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: recall tigerfibel ?	[21:50]
asciilifeform:	the germans had a grammar, for shorthand of orders	[21:50]
ben_vulpes:	other lulzies in the same vein http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp?v=makefiles#2418 and http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp?v=makefiles#0309	[21:50]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: entirely sensible!	[21:50]
asciilifeform:	so loading of cannon was sumthing like 'fa-la-ma-fo'	[21:50]
* asciilifeform	recently reread 'tigerfibel', really a megaclassic of technical writing for all time	[21:51]
phf:	mircea_popescu: 80col is such an old holiwar you're risking myself or ascii moving in a backyard and building defensive possitions, like those boys they bring from iraq do. "son, you can come out now, we showed those no break somsabeaches"	[21:57]
asciilifeform:	'if i can't use my drum printer, i dun want yer revolution' or how did emma goldman put it..	[21:58]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform aha.	[22:05]
mircea_popescu:	on both cvounts.	[22:05]
mircea_popescu:	phf fine!	[22:05]
mircea_popescu:	can't even reform anything around here!	[22:06]
mircea_popescu:	so to have closure, i suppose http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763975 should read "80 cols plox what is this"	[22:07]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 17:31 mircea_popescu: esthlos please let your paragraphs flow. please.	[22:07]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764241 << see ? three!!1 three secret retorts!!	[22:11]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 19:58 ben_vulpes: yes i know, in ro	[22:11]
ben_vulpes:	i'm still waiting on my three secret beakers	[22:11]
mircea_popescu:	wait wut ?	[22:11]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764245 << suspicious, isn't it ?	[22:11]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 20:10 asciilifeform: ( likbez : all you need for the mythical holy grail, 'fast iron rsa', is a very large-bitnessed adder-cum-barrelshifter and a few storage registers that can be programmatically shuffled between. )	[22:11]
ben_vulpes:	terribru pun on glassware	[22:12]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: which ?	[22:12]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764246 << this is a very apt commentary on the value of 1bn orcs piled up together.	[22:12]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 20:10 BingoBoingo: In other news from the price is right department: "The personal information of more than a billion Indians stored in the world's largest biometric database can be bought online for less than $8, according to an investigation by an Indian newspaper."	[22:12]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform that -- yes, can have, but cripled like so	[22:12]
asciilifeform:	oh it's simply a painfully small cpld is all	[22:12]
asciilifeform:	was never meant for 'make own cpu'	[22:13]
asciilifeform:	but for 'glue'	[22:13]
mircea_popescu:	could have shifts!	[22:13]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710096 << see also thread, re concretes	[22:14]
a111:	Logged on 2017-09-02 19:42 asciilifeform: biggest ice part is the ICE40HX8K	[22:14]
mircea_popescu:	now let's see here : "Meltdown breaks all security assumptions given by the CPUs memory isolation capabilities." vs "So given that there is in fact no secure memory implementation no matter how much it would be useful if there was one, EuCrypt takes instead the honest and practical approach of making it clear that it uses plain memory and nothing else."	[22:16]
mircea_popescu:	who's ahead and whos behind in the great technological race of 2010s ?	[22:16]
mircea_popescu:	note to journahos of the future : include a plain statement of the above fact in your opening salvo or else.	[22:16]
asciilifeform:	proofofconcept btw is pretty great, reads arbitrary pg of ram from wwwbrowser jsolade	[22:17]
mircea_popescu:	aha	[22:18]
asciilifeform:	( does 0 on pre-obummer amd, i will add )	[22:19]
mircea_popescu:	i'm too lazy to dig up where mp says he uses old amds, but w/e.	[22:19]
asciilifeform:	errybody literate, i suspect, uses	[22:20]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764256 << let's leave it at that	[22:20]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 20:19 ben_vulpes: btw how come nobody in the "stop rape culture!!11" world has done an indiestarter to build the vagina dentata from neal stephenson's snow crash?	[22:20]
mircea_popescu:	btw, vafgina dentata is from freud not from john smith.	[22:20]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: subj is a type of boobytrap, vs freud's	[22:20]
mircea_popescu:	(and there was some idiot sheila from down below years ago i recall lulzing in the logs as to how this wonder will drive rapist to a) probe and b) beat into a squirming, faceless mess any bitch dumb enough to go around with it)	[22:21]
asciilifeform:	never afaik used in life, for obvious reason	[22:21]
mircea_popescu:	pretty sure we lulzed at this exact item, years ago.	[22:21]
asciilifeform:	'mr.bayonet goes in first'	[22:21]
asciilifeform:	'В комнату заходите вдвоем: сначала граната, потом - ты' (tm)(r)	[22:23]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2012-10-15#-230312 << linked mostly for the bitcoin prices.	[22:24]
a111:	Logged on 2012-10-15 05:01 BTC-Mining: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device#Rape-aXe	[22:24]
asciilifeform:	http://fakty.ua/187680-esli-vo-vremya-zachistki-slyshish-v-pomecshenii-myaukane-iz-shkafa-ne-otkryvaj-vmeste-s-kotenkom-tam-mozhet-byt-spryatana-granata << collection of similar aphorisms, for dedicated archaeologist.	[22:30]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764309 << but abstinence only is good for you.	[22:31]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 21:16 phf: a forced popup that warns you that you're sending to http from https, but there's no about:config to disable the popup. 9 years of "ffs put a boolean in configs, you fucks"	[22:31]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764319 << twas exhaustively discussed last time! http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737379	[22:34]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 22:30 asciilifeform: 'top 2 bits and bottom bit are ALWAYS 1!' << asciilifeform still doesn't get why to weld the next-to-highest	[22:34]
a111:	Logged on 2017-11-14 01:07 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 11 x 11 = 1001 10 x 10 = 0100	[22:34]
mircea_popescu:	the ONLY way to make sure the top bit of a product is set, is to have BOTH top bits in BOTH factors set.	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	so why not, then, 3 ?	[22:35]
mircea_popescu:	because 3rd makes no difference.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu:	110 x 110 and 111 x 111 BOTH result in a 1yyy	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	hm.	[22:36]
asciilifeform:	so does 11... x 10... tho	[22:36]
mircea_popescu:	doesn't matter.	[22:36]
mircea_popescu:	if you don't set it, it can always be worst case.	[22:36]
asciilifeform:	throws away whole bit of entropy in each factor, for nuffin	[22:37]
mircea_popescu:	for something.	[22:37]
mircea_popescu:	fixlength N.	[22:37]
asciilifeform:	wainot http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-14#1737387 pill ?	[22:38]
a111:	Logged on 2017-11-14 01:09 asciilifeform: the way i'd implement the whole shebang, is simply to reject both primes if the highest bit of pq is not 1 .	[22:38]
mircea_popescu:	faster this way.	[22:38]
asciilifeform:	rot13 fastest, lol	[22:38]
mircea_popescu:	yes well, we're looking at ~10 second m-r run per item, so like half a day to produce a pair of primes.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu:	im not throwing them away 93% of the time	[22:39]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764342 << cuz i've been mostly the one guy reading her code to date i guess ?	[22:41]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 23:01 asciilifeform: why not stick to the ancestral 80col, folx??	[22:41]
asciilifeform:	1/4 not .93 lol	[22:42]
mircea_popescu:	any of 6 bits not being set -> chucked item 2^6 = 64 so 1 in 64 ie 1.5% or so pass.	[22:43]
asciilifeform:	why 6	[22:43]
asciilifeform:	asciilifeform's algo was 'if top bit of p*q not set, get new p,q'	[22:44]
mircea_popescu:	!!up kook00	[22:44]
deedbot:	kook00 voiced for 30 minutes.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform so you ok with fixing bottom bit ?	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: gotta odd p,q	[22:45]
mircea_popescu:	so ? test for parity! throw out!	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	there's not an escape from bottom	[22:45]
mircea_popescu:	i don't want the 1/4 bit of parity	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	that wouldn't win anything tho	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	whereas my algo preserves the entropy of the penultimate bit.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu:	i dun want it.	[22:46]
asciilifeform:	aite. so long as you know what yer buying.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu:	i'm dealing with "four rounds of m-r and a 5th fixed with 2, so as to fix the cone of blindness" bs and you want me to care about the 2047th bit ?	[22:47]
mircea_popescu:	dja understand motherfucking koch fixed one of the witnesses in mr ?	[22:47]
asciilifeform:	aha	[22:47]
mircea_popescu:	what nsa gains from being able to rely on 2 rather than 44444444444444444 is anyone's fucking guess	[22:48]
asciilifeform:	( 'fixed' rng also.. )	[22:48]
mircea_popescu:	"oh, 2 is a great witness for odd composites" "so would have been any other even number" "yes but... umm..."	[22:48]
asciilifeform:	'can't pick witnesses trngistically because reasons'	[22:49]
asciilifeform:	i mean ffs, koch dun even leave a knob to get ~key~ entropy trngistically.	[22:50]
asciilifeform:	'what if running on toaster, with no rng'	[22:50]
mircea_popescu:	what if running on his mother.	[22:50]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764363 << possibly should auction the piles.	[22:51]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-04 23:39 asciilifeform: generally my page will in the end have ~equal area of pencilmark and printerola	[22:51]
asciilifeform:	the sheer wtf, srsly, consider the folx who imagine they are somehow cryptoizing on a machine with no trng	[22:51]
asciilifeform:	re prime gen -- i suspect that the problem can be finessed ,	[22:54]
mircea_popescu:	holy hell i lived to see the end of the 4th day of 2018 logs.	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	specifically that a proof of uniformity for an apeloyee-style primeconstructor mechanism, is in nearer reach than a runnable-on-2048b-ints aks.	[22:55]
mircea_popescu:	i'd read.	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	( but not having it yet -- asciilifeform cannot say for a fact. )	[22:56]
mircea_popescu:	tho i am deeply suspicious of constructed primes.	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	rightfully.	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	there is pointedly NOT a safe constructor known.	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	( see the thread )	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-07#1733382 << subj.	[22:58]
a111:	Logged on 2017-11-07 16:36 asciilifeform: let's model the ideal prime-shitter. it would be an item that takes integer N , of whatever bitness, and produce the Nth prime ( or eggog if the Nth prime is bigger than the register bitness permitted. )	[22:58]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764429 << im impressed you're aware	[23:00]
a111:	Logged on 2018-01-05 00:12 asciilifeform: right, 'engineer' is more a psychological term to asciilifeform , rather like rpg character class, than diploma.	[23:00]
asciilifeform:	lolwhy	[23:01]
mircea_popescu:	im easily impressed, what.	[23:01]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform there is no method to produce nth prime.	[23:03]
asciilifeform:	noshit	[23:06]
asciilifeform:	one of the biggest unsolveds , since greeks	[23:06]
asciilifeform:	nor do i expect to see a solution.	[23:06]
asciilifeform:	then again i didn't expect 'primes is in p' either.	[23:07]
mircea_popescu:	it'll be funny 5mn years from now, when we're all sitting around with whatever pools & eggnogs of the future and rsa still stands, undaunted, in preference of ~everything else.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu:	"turns out primes isn't even in W!"	[23:09]
asciilifeform:	and will add, that it is theoretically possible to satisfy asciilifeform's uniformity criterion ( 'avoids no primes' + 'no bit of input is more influential over the output than any other bit' ) without creating the mythical n-th-prime-maker	[23:09]
asciilifeform:	lol	[23:09]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform you have a different problem : even if "no bit of input is more influential than other" i STILL want to put in no less than 2045 bits of input AND get out no MORE! than 2048 bit long prime.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	so you don't have much to work with.	[23:11]
asciilifeform:	the described item is trivially impossible	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	quite my point.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	but any other item is worse than what we have now.	[23:11]
asciilifeform:	most 2048bitness state is composite	[23:11]
asciilifeform:	i dun see how worse	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	if your magic maker uses say 2044 bits of input, therefore you have half as many possible states than i do!	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	so you're half as wide, so end of story.	[23:12]
asciilifeform:	mno. you have same 2044 or whatnot. just takes you longer. and with m-r , also chance to step on a mine.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu:	consider : mp-prime takes 2045 bits from trng, spits out after some wrangling 2048 bit prime number meanwhile alf-prime takes 45 bits from trng, spits out after some wrangling 2048 bit prime.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu:	mp-prime is stronger than alf-prime.	[23:13]
asciilifeform:	why 45 ?	[23:13]
mircea_popescu:	anything other than 2045 loses.	[23:13]
asciilifeform:	there aint 2045 bits of primespace under 2048b of integerspace.	[23:14]
mircea_popescu:	about 1 in 2k numbers is prime there.	[23:15]
mircea_popescu:	so say 2^11.	[23:15]
asciilifeform:	so that's the actual keyspace available.	[23:15]
asciilifeform:	under 2048.	[23:15]
mircea_popescu:	even if i admit this objection, which i dunno i should but let's, for fellowship -- 2037 still not much room to work with	[23:15]
asciilifeform:	can get to it the current way, or, hypothetically, some martian way.	[23:15]
asciilifeform:	i dun have the martian one, ftr.	[23:16]
asciilifeform:	all i got, is m-r	[23:16]
asciilifeform:	would be neat to generate keys in bounded time. and know primality for a fact. BUT i dun have, yet, such a pill.	[23:17]
mircea_popescu:	moreover! while there's just as many integers with the 1337th bit set as there are with it nul, nevertheless it's trivially not the case that there's just as many 2048 bit prime numbers with it set as there are with it null.	[23:20]
mircea_popescu:	ie, prime numbers themselves do not follow this 'no bit of input is more influential over the output than any other bit' rule.	[23:20]
mircea_popescu:	(now go, predict things about how it falls)	[23:20]
asciilifeform:	expand?	[23:20]
asciilifeform:	( i can't see from where mircea_popescu extracts this )	[23:20]
mircea_popescu:	you expect you have an even count of prime numbers ?	[23:22]
asciilifeform:	afaik no known pattern	[23:22]
mircea_popescu:	no known pattern but no homogenity either. there's always an even count of integers in a given bitsize but not necessarily an even count of primes.	[23:22]
asciilifeform:	try it	[23:23]
* asciilifeform	brb,meat	[23:23]
mircea_popescu:	try what ?	[23:23]
mircea_popescu:	7 primes in 4 bits, for instance.	[23:23]
mircea_popescu:	diana_coman "to unsure" -> ensure	[23:36]
mircea_popescu:	"go and read some basic books" -> "read, re-read <em>and understand</em> TAOCP" ? or what, add K&R in there ? steele's 2002 thing ?	[23:39]
mircea_popescu:	diana_coman technically it's incorrect to say "6 bits will always be 1" it's the case that the first and the last bits of N are always 1 and a further number of bits are subtly affected (ie, biased) by the p, q masks.	[23:41]
* mircea_popescu	will take this to the comment section now.	[23:41]
mircea_popescu:	!!up kook00	[23:50]
deedbot:	kook00 voiced for 30 minutes.	[23:50]

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