Forum logs for 30 Oct 2018
| BingoBoingo: | It's the sort of monkey noises I can't escape | [00:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | as fucking if, these morons trying to "write the news" as per 1980s usg.blue recipes. what are they, stuck with old magazines in an outhouse or something ? | [00:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yes, and they try to use "poetic license" as they do it | [00:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | schmucks. | [00:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | And they became the paper of record because El Pais adopted still more user hostile web design turd traps into their pages | [00:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | Thankfully Uruguay is a small country and I am young. They will not like it, but because I am young I have time to spend in the pursuit of lifting them. | [00:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | They will surely squirm and I will have to rehab my left shoulder several times. But I will lift them. | [00:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | committed huh ? | [00:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | I desperately need higher purpose in my life. Gloria the Peruana adores me so much it is ridiculous. My sex life offer no resistance in the medium. Pizarro is a struggle and I pursue that among peers. | [00:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | By contrast the Uruguayos... | [00:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | I come from a simple people | [00:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | These are a simple people | [00:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | And yet they could not be more alien | [00:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | I hate much about them | [00:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | And they hate the idea of me while loving and embracing the actual me | [00:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Bitches yelling in the street this morning against Bolsonaro swoon when I say "Make Brasil and Empire Again" | [00:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | As a socially maladjusted fringe figure the Republic has lead me to living in a puzzle playground that fascinates me so incredibly much | [00:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | As I curse the undead zombies that doom me to walking the beach in the wee hours all by myself because a country with a car ownership rate near zero somehow managed to not adopt sane pedestrian customs | [00:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | This country is a god damned emotional see-saw and I don't know if I can quit it | [00:25] |
| deedbot: | http://bimbo.club/?p=70 << Bimbo.Club - What I wish I knew a month ago. | [00:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | But if I do, it will probably be like that time you moved to Argentina, thought you would go for citizenship, and left only to swear your next visit would be to put every single head on a pike | [00:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | And... my rant got upstaged by the escapee from the shittier part of Illinois. Well played nicoleci | [00:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | well... not bad. | [00:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | may your efforts be fertile! | [00:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | ahahah btw, thart's fucking genuine. bitch abandoned her car where they shot some people, ended up suspected perp/victim in multi-homicide. | [00:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | SERIAL KILLER BIMBO FTW! | [00:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | lol, did she really just cut the family out of her international move? | [00:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | i dunno, some weird drama. i guess fambly figured they owned her or soemthing. | [00:31] |
| mod6: | drama | [00:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, after spending more time here I went from seeing contrasts versus Argentines on landing, to similarities to Argentines during the time ben_vulpes was here, to now accepting the Uruguayos are weird and alien in a way that makes the Argentines look like hill billies | [00:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Do you still have the traffic stop set up at the foot a castle Popescu? | [00:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, I guess next time sell the car? Trade it for a pnoHe and then sell the pnoHe in destination? | [00:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | In still other anyways, where I am today I see the endgame where Pizarro survives to Profitability I continue Qntra and other writing/social engineering, and gardening someting other than container chives while a republican colony settles down in this Martian hellscape wouldn't be a bad play. | [00:46] |
| mod6: | that trb mars-lag tho | [00:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Eh, I only shit hundreds of blocks at you out of short lag mis communications | [00:48] |
| mod6: | :D | [00:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Who knows maye 10 years down the line I catch up to the log summaries and manage to stabilize a cannabis cultivar that gives a pleasant head rush with minimal stupids and sedation in contrast to Pantsuit fad pressure dab shit. | [00:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | We live in [current year] and [soon to be current year] is ahead of us | [00:53] |
| mod6: | i like this whogaveblox | [00:53] |
| mod6: | preach | [00:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | !Q later tell danielpbarron are you still alive and doing alright? | [00:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | !Xsell 1.5bn 48 9.5k wFF q0 | [01:00] |
| auctionbot: | Sell order # 1004 created by mircea_popescu: 9.5k wFF q0 Opening: 1.5bn ecu Ending: 2018-10-31 17:00:23.871700 UTC (47 hours) | [01:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | let's give this thing another try same riders as b4. | [01:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 BingoBoingo ^ | [01:00] |
| mod6: | hey hey! | [01:02] |
| mod6: | trying to see how to bid on this thing | [01:06] |
| mod6: | BingoBoingo you know how? | [01:06] |
| * mod6 | rtfms | [01:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | !Xhelp | [01:07] |
| auctionbot: | http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/ | [01:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: Your documentation for auctionbot is notably missing how to bid | [01:08] |
| mod6: | yeah, not sure if I'm supposed to !Xbuy or not | [01:10] |
| mats: | my blog post is still forthcoming, just delayed a couple weeks. chinese class is picking up a bit, so i've been focusing my attention there | [01:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo i'd expect !Q to !X mapping, so !Xbid | [01:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | mircea_popescu: I'll give lobbes 24 hours to confirm before submitting to assumed mapping | [01:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | sure. | [01:18] |
| mod6: | I'll fire in a bid | [01:18] |
| mod6: | !Xbid 1004 1.5bn | [01:18] |
| auctionbot: | mod6: Eggog: Your bid is too low. Opening bid is 1.5bn, you bid 1.5bn | [01:18] |
| mod6: | XD | [01:19] |
| mod6: | !Xbid 1004 1500000001 | [01:20] |
| auctionbot: | Sell order # 1004: 9.5k wFF q0 Heard: 1500000001 from mod6. Ending: 2018-10-31 17:00:23.871700 UTC (47 hours 39 mins) | [01:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | top keks | [01:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | sooo is archive.is dead nao ? | [02:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile in incomprehensible lulz, https://galacticconnection.com/recognize-characteristics-reptilian-possessed-hybrids/ | [02:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | So... the author is saying Sarah was a crocodile | [03:12] |
| * BingoBoingo | still awake trying to ponder Wtf is up with Banksy | [03:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | noooo-body knows! | [03:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | The more I look into Banksy the more spam filters he hits | [03:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | I am going to lay down and try to sleep more confused and scared than I have been since February, because this banksy thing is some serious boogeyman shit | [03:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | lmao what now | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform, http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-29-oct-2018#2491104 -> there's something I don't get here: if A xor D xor F xor H = 0 then this imposes F xor H = A xor D and so you'd need to substitute that everywhere else because F and H are not anymore free to be whatever or the initial a xor d xor f xor h won't hold anymore more precisely: further down the line for instance at W(2) that F xor H is in fact A xor D so A does actually still appear, | [06:25] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-29 23:13 asciilifeform: if you have d,f,h, such that a == d xor f xor h ( or if you like , a xor d == f xor h , or a xor d xor f == h , it's transitive) then a term disappears from the eqn | [06:25] |
| diana_coman: | no? (specifically, W(2) = (RL11 (XOR C (XOR A D) (RL11 (XOR B E G (RL11 (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9 0)) #9e3779b9 1)) #9e3779b9 2)) ) | [06:25] |
| diana_coman: | the above is what I meant earlier by the effect of A (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867350) | [06:27] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-29 22:56 diana_coman: basically I get http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867091 BUT can't yet follow it to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867092 mainly because it seems to me that the effect of A is basically in fixing d,f,h (so that xor(a,d,f,h)=0) in short: wouldn't a change (of any number of bits) in a trigger (if imposing xor(a,d,f,h)=0 still) changes further in b-h so that the resulting key schedule is different? theoretically that would be the ration | [06:27] |
| diana_coman: | in short: I am not yet able to fully eliminate A when I impose that (XOR A D F H #9e3779b9# 0)=0 do you actually have the re-rewritten transformations without A anywhere? | [06:44] |
| lobbes: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867577 << ty! fixed: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/10/auctionbot-is-live/ | [08:35] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 05:08 BingoBoingo: lobbes: Your documentation for auctionbot is notably missing how to bid | [08:35] |
| lobbes: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867581 << I can indeed confirm that lobbesbot's !Q command syntax maps to auctionbot's !X (e.g. !Qbid 1000 10mn == !Xbid 1000 10mn) | [08:35] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 05:15 BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'll give lobbes 24 hours to confirm before submitting to assumed mapping | [08:35] |
| lobbes: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867585 << oy. this is a minor bug (a simple "<=" instead of "<" in my coad). I'ma fix right now (auctionbot commands temporarily suspended, one second..) | [08:35] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 05:18 auctionbot: mod6: Eggog: Your bid is too low. Opening bid is 1.5bn, you bid 1.5bn | [08:35] |
| lobbes: | okay, maintenance complete, bug fixed | [08:38] |
| lobbes: | (and commands back online) | [08:38] |
| * lobbes | off to sit on saecular stake for 8 hours. bbl | [08:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867432 << thinking about it, yes i agree the jew-nazi has a more colorful life story. but think about it : his entire's life work, his sum total accomplishment, is being an aide to an obscure publisher of inconsequential tracts. this is exactly danielpbarron 's position, and it ain't much. that florida beauty queen had them beat, for instance, and she had them beat a) in her 20s, while these | [09:07] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 01:58 BingoBoingo: I'd take banksy a lot more seriously if he caught the bad side of the feds, won on appeal, touched the republic, then decided he could stack his own chairs just fine as he proceeded on his moon mission | [09:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | are 30something men and b) while her brain's the size of a pea. | [09:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | lobbes regression eh! | [09:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-126940 << for your lulz compartment. | [09:27] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, the parallel is actually quite striking, yes otherwise though, if there is ONE thing that living in several countries teaches one is that there is nothing "Romanian" , yes | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | nation of stupid. | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile in lulz of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-21#1864592 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858624 i give you... http://archive.is/mrxeg#selection-3577.0-3577.152 | [10:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-21 21:23 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-20#1864445 << not so, was briefly dead but then adobe released a new set after 5+ years silence and it's catching back up. | [10:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-05 17:45 BingoBoingo: Anyways, the point is the cannabis forum wankers essentially invented their own Monsanto in the same way Linus and the men alone invented their own Microshit | [10:04] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/aZuZQ/?raw=true << example of term elimination. but tbf i'm still working from the hypothesis that i must be mistaken, somewhere, and all of the keybits are conserved, and could prove this somehow... | [10:52] |
| asciilifeform: | *tbh | [10:52] |
| asciilifeform: | the alternative is simply too lulzy to take seriously, just nao | [10:54] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman, mircea_popescu : i'ma feed the thing into an algebratron later tonight | [10:54] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform, so you set A to the constant so that it cancels out with that rather than "any A as long as (xor a d f h)=0" | [10:55] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: correct, i haven't found the item i was looking for, thus far | [10:56] |
| asciilifeform: | ideally what i'll find is a proof that there are exactly 2**256 528byte expansions . | [10:56] |
| asciilifeform: | 2nd best, is that i find the pill. | [10:57] |
| asciilifeform: | i'm quite reluctant to continue with the fpgaization thing unless i can get at the former. | [10:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | this makes sense. | [11:04] |
| diana_coman: | for anyone following along, I can confirm I got same as mircea_popescu here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867338 | [11:05] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-29 21:54 mircea_popescu: K = 0101, P = 1110. RB = (1110), (1101), (1011), (0111). E1 = 1 x 1 x 0 = 0 E2 = 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 E3 = 1 x 0 x 1 = 0 E4 = 0 x 1 x 1 = 0 E = 0100. | [11:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | *thumbsup* | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | now if only i managed to get these right on the first pass, stop confusing the shit out of everyone... | [11:08] |
| asciilifeform: | hey i too supplied some high octane confusium with which to be confused!11 | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | gotta build a republican chill pill plant. | [11:29] |
| asciilifeform: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867617 << this is lulzy indeed -- 'let's replace 1 hash where we dun have proof of injectivity with ~another~ where we dun even know where to start proving' ?! | [11:55] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 13:27 mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://trilema.com/2016/btmsr-block-cipher-competition/#comment-126940 << for your lulz compartment. | [11:55] |
| asciilifeform: | ( ftr i dun currently have the faintest notion re how to prove that keccak is injective ) | [11:56] |
| asciilifeform: | ( does PeterL ?? ) | [11:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | i've temporarily misplaced the discussion of "let's say what can be said", brb finding it. | [11:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-11#1270344 << uncovering lulz in the process. ahh, recall back when usg thought it could BUY the republic ? | [12:00] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-09-11 12:10 mircea_popescu: Blythe Masters says US lags in blockchain use (ft.com) / Over $60 million in funding raised for bitcoin companies this week alone. / bla bla << "To sum up : what we have so far are a few millions invested in hopeless start-ups that have no talent, no business model, aren't solving a problem and generally speaking don't exist other than as a tag on an orange calling it a potato." / http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of- | [12:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | not enough "money" in the imaginary world for THAT, bitches! | [12:01] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: recall poor old al schwartz's reply to s.nsa ? 'if you succeed you will be killed or bought' | [12:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | menalone. | [12:02] |
| asciilifeform: | also a++ tautology, 'hey, y'say not killed or bought yet? clearly not succeed yet' | [12:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-16#1020689 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-15#1644151 (and of course, all skirting for http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ ) | [12:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2015-02-16 06:45 mircea_popescu: read one police report of crime x, you've read half of them. read ten, you've (practically) read them all. clinical psychology is only interesting to the patently insane, as a practice. otherwise all the notes say endlessly the same five or six things. there just aren't that many things to say. | [12:04] |
| a111: | Logged on 2017-04-15 17:27 mircea_popescu: given the list of all the things that have been said already (this is really a tree, but in his perspective it's flattened into a list by nulling out all the values associated with the string nodes), his choice is : | [12:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | holy shit, check that out, i found one of these for once. | [12:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform so, the above : dood "wants to contribute". this want leads him through the rest. | [12:05] |
| asciilifeform: | there's an imho moar pertinent mircea_popescu piece, where 'archaetypical kid made gift for mother, out of acorns and matchsticks' or how did it go | [12:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | there's also that. | [12:07] |
| asciilifeform: | ( some folx 'want contribute', but mysteriously can't be arsed to actually load open problem into head ) | [12:07] |
| asciilifeform: | it's perhaps excusable for a 4 y.o. kid, but is odd when from adult | [12:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t2Mou/?raw=true << dude fucking webtard sites... who the fuck lives like this ?! | [12:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's ~still~ not done loading! | [12:08] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: wtf is that | [12:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | some rando website. | [12:08] |
| asciilifeform: | ... from spam log ? | [12:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | some fetlife chickie. | [12:10] |
| asciilifeform: | aa | [12:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | "I am Goddess KK I am an Interactive Fetish & Glam Model and ON pornhub and youtube! .. Bacially a Freak of Nature." | [12:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suppose you're missing out | [12:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | (she's also evidently lying about her age, tired 30yo hobag tryna pretend to right-outta-college-dom) | [12:11] |
| asciilifeform: | i aint an subj expert, but don't all cheap whores market as 'fresh' for as long as it is half-possible ? | [12:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | aactually... "I LOVE MY FANS XOXO I do Professional Foot Modeling, Fetish Work. I created this for exposure and business, Plus I love the Fetish World. I have experience with Photoshoots, Traveling, BDSM, PRO DOMME, Foot Fetish Services, and Foot NIght International, video editing, production, directing. I started from the ground up and am proud of the climb. | [12:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | I create and sell fetish porn on clips4sale, and i create funny sexy vids on YouTube and some HOT sexy teasers ON PORNHUB. I created my website [https://www.kelllikellly.com] I am very proud of my website, i own it as well and updates soon!! CHECK IT OUT, Do it cuz its actually awesome and I mean hello.... I made it. Soooo Im a YoungMILF, i am independent and live a happy life. If your wanting an in person session, message | [12:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | me for detials $ I also offer webcam services xooxo" | [12:14] |
| asciilifeform: | kinda how americanfootballists keep playing until their legs won't carry'em | [12:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | pardon the spam i bothered because honestly, this is paradigmatic. i dunno any pantsuits ACTUALLY exist but i know for sure there's millions of these rachel-hos. | [12:14] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: i suspect roughly same dynamic as old-style spam. i.e. 'i heard others are doin' it, there gotta be moneys in it, so i'ma buy a webcam and interactivefetish kit' | [12:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think it goes deeper than that. the fundamental, biology-based female strategy is "here i am". | [12:16] |
| asciilifeform: | if man-alone dreams of 'money while sleep', fman-alone -- of 'money with dildo' | [12:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | in 2010s, this "here i am" is ^ | [12:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | just like in the 80s, that same "here i am" was http://trilema.com/2016/portrait-of-an-adult-woman/ | [12:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | imo technology brought decay, but hey. | [12:16] |
| asciilifeform: | main imho tech problem of our time, is that brekekekekex-amplifier is a penny while effective filter is a pound+. | [12:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaahahah, "Entrepreneur at its finest, Kelli Kelly, so good you had to say it twice. Aspiring to become a Motivational Speaker and Author. Fresh and unique with uplifting energy you will feel immediately entering her presence. Kelli has a different story and comes from a very different upbringing. Her experience is what " << chick's got a linkedin too. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelllikellly/ | [12:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | all her friends are liek... Jennifer Best Fetish Model at Jennifer Best charlotte peters retired at home Miss T. Fetish Clip Producer, Fetish Performer, Glamour Model, Lingerie Model , Fetish Model, FemDom | [12:19] |
| * asciilifeform | pictures koreans pronouncing name, ends up hashing to 'beriberi' | [12:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | SO GOOD YOU HAD TO SAY IT TWICE! | [12:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman answered. | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, but uhm, isn't that precisely the example I give in the comment and which leads to the wrong value? this: but with the formula above it would be E(2)= P(2) xor 0*P(1) xor 1*P(2) xor 0*P(3) xor 1*P(4) = P(2) xor P(2) xor P(4) = 1 xor 1 xor 0 = 0 . | [12:28] |
| * diana_coman | brb | [12:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman E[2] = 1 (because P[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[2] = 1 and RB2[2] = 1) xor 1 (because K[4] = 1 and RB4[4] = 1). thus E[2] = 1. | [12:31] |
| asciilifeform: | i gotta admit that i still dun grasp how to decipher unambiguously into 1 single orig plaintext | [12:41] |
| asciilifeform: | the gaussian elimination thing would work if you had add (as in with carries) rather than xor | [12:42] |
| asciilifeform: | but what you have instead is addition over , if you will , galois field | [12:43] |
| asciilifeform: | perchance i can provoke mircea_popescu into writing a proggy that deciphers ? | [12:44] |
| asciilifeform: | ( spoiler, btw -- if you had normal addition, yer algo reduces to 'multiply P by K', it'd then be exactly my 'egyptian' multiplier ) | [12:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform fuck me, NOW i understand what you were on about yest --- E aren't THE RESULTS, but merely THE LAST BIT of a result. consequently, not actually eq system. | [12:46] |
| asciilifeform: | aha. | [12:46] |
| asciilifeform: | what you got, is egyptian mul, with thrown out carries. | [12:46] |
| asciilifeform: | they go to /dev/null, there is no way to get'em back deterministically. | [12:46] |
| asciilifeform: | ( xor is == halfadder ) | [12:48] |
| asciilifeform: | ( 'egyptian div', btw, is pretty much exactly gaussian elimination , restated ) | [12:50] |
| asciilifeform: | the closest thing i can think of to a working variant of mircea_popescu's device, is where you keep the carries, and use primes... and we know it as.. rsa | [12:51] |
| asciilifeform: | ( tho the reason why rsa is based on exponentiation, rather than straight multiplication-of-'plaintext'-prime-by-seekrit-prime is that in the latter variant you could trivially extract seekrit-prime with gcd ) | [12:53] |
| asciilifeform: | and yes if you had fast iron bignumtron, could use ordinary rsa and dispense with enigmas. | [12:54] |
| asciilifeform: | ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-29#1867259 ) | [12:55] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-29 20:56 asciilifeform: the basic boojum is that it aint a cipher of any kind, and the ubiquitous sbox derpery is simply squid ink to obscure this. maslennikov details how he pointed this out to 1980s kgb and got sacked. | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform i agree with you, this is a shredder not a cipher moreover -- if we for instance tried to add say crc into the message as padding, then therefore we'd be by the same hand introducing structure, ie weakness. | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | and i further agree with you -- it is a very strong commentary and ceiling upon the security of "block ciphers". because yes, literally, all otehrs are just this with magic-numbered RBs. which... is EXACTLY the same "introduce say crc", except hidden under so much smoke. | [12:56] |
| asciilifeform: | reasonable cipher requires element that is at least a ~conjectured~ trap door (i.e. 'entry is a buck but exit is two'), e.g. exponentiation-with-primes | [12:57] |
| asciilifeform: | in '16 i burned coupla months on the q of 'can haz', mainly on np-hard problems / turing-complete cellular automata, in place of sboxation. but got stuck on the 'guaranteed hard instance' boojum. | [12:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867702 <<< very much this whereby it's actually the case we're starting to move towards an actual completion of the fucking field. | [12:59] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 16:51 asciilifeform: the closest thing i can think of to a working variant of mircea_popescu's device, is where you keep the carries, and use primes... and we know it as.. rsa | [12:59] |
| asciilifeform: | it's the reason for asciilifeform's lulzsubmission to mircea_popescu's 'block contest'. it wasn't even joak, it was 'rsa is the only tool in that box that i have any reason to think actually worx' | [13:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | there will be no altcoin there will be no alt-cipher this is a jealous god we got here. | [13:02] |
| asciilifeform: | seems like | [13:02] |
| asciilifeform: | of course it is possible to come up with infinite variety of garbage ciphers that 'hey it confused me!' but imho not very useful activity | [13:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | "is living of course in a state of sin" | [13:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | the problem is irreducible, either you mix entropy in or you don't. | [13:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | attempts to act "as if you had" will result in the above -- shredder. | [13:03] |
| asciilifeform: | in '16 we trivially reduced it to symmcipher == prng == hash | [13:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | and that stands. | [13:03] |
| asciilifeform: | ( they're the same thing, if you had a provably working one, you get the other 2 gratis ) | [13:03] |
| asciilifeform: | sorta why it did not make sense to asciilifeform that people sat and 'i'ma make a hash', 'i'ma make a cipher', a good x is exactly a good y | [13:04] |
| asciilifeform: | ditto prng. they're legs of triangle. | [13:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform let's try something else. suppose key = 512 bit prime and suppose cipher works as E = P ^ K | 2^512. | [13:07] |
| asciilifeform: | to make life even harder, rsa also suffers from 'can haz provably hard case' problem, there's classes of 'easy' primes, and no particular reason to think that we exhaustively know all of'em.. | [13:07] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: multiplication with snipped off top half ? | [13:08] |
| asciilifeform: | how wouldja get P back ? | [13:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | exponentiation. | [13:08] |
| asciilifeform: | it's the add-without-carry thing again | [13:08] |
| asciilifeform: | you got a buncha intermediate addition bits that sink to the bottom of the sea | [13:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | myeah. there's just no wai outs. | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform: | ( in the | 2^512 ) | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform: | whereas if you don't throw them out, you have a reversible thing that is just multiplication, and i can gcd(p1,p2) == K. | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform: | err, e1,e2 | [13:09] |
| asciilifeform: | ( i.e. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867703 ) | [13:10] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 16:53 asciilifeform: ( tho the reason why rsa is based on exponentiation, rather than straight multiplication-of-'plaintext'-prime-by-seekrit-prime is that in the latter variant you could trivially extract seekrit-prime with gcd ) | [13:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | ayup | [13:10] |
| asciilifeform: | ( the 'intuitive' cure, 'let the primes be a sequence of primes, no prime used twice' is still breakable with fermat ) | [13:12] |
| asciilifeform: | rsa & c-s (the latter, really a narrowed elgamal) are the only 2 oasis i know to exist in that desert. | [13:13] |
| asciilifeform: | for thread-completeness, asciilifeform will mention that he does not believe that ecc, as seen in bitcoin, is necessarily strong -- if there's a break, we won't hear of it unless somebody is catastrophically stupid -- it is analogous to those old safes that included 10 pounds of thermite for erry pound of benjie, torch it and you lose whole thing | [13:19] |
| asciilifeform: | imho bitcoin is a quite poor cryptological 'mine canary' for this reason. | [13:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | possibly. | [13:26] |
| asciilifeform: | same observation arguably can be applied to errything else tho, so i'm not entirely sure it's a useful one. | [13:38] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, we agree on the result but not on the formula, lol your formula says e(2)=p(2) xor k(1)*p(1) xor k(2)*p(2) xor k(3)*p(3) xor k(4)*p(4) right? | [13:44] |
| diana_coman: | and then I read the rest of the log ofc | [13:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | as best i can tell -- the only options are either keep using serpent or else use some kind of recursive hash otp | [13:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | like keccak(keccak(bla+salt)) | [13:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman did we end up with an ada impl of mersene twister at some juncture ? | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, yes | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | for the udp tester | [13:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suppose that could be the backup alternative then : if we end up ditching serpent, we use a rsa packet to move ~1.4kb of entropy for initializing the mt, and then use mt generated pads for a cipher. | [13:54] |
| asciilifeform: | iirc you can trivially extract next-state of mt if you get 1 | [13:55] |
| asciilifeform: | ( and from there, whole chain ) | [13:56] |
| asciilifeform: | gotta point out, serpent aint dead yet | [13:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah and it'd better not be, the floor keeps crumbling underneath. | [13:58] |
| asciilifeform: | in unrelated minor lulz, discovered yet another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865517 : 213.148.193.153 | [14:15] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-23 22:46 asciilifeform: i suspected shitfork, when realized that the 501 blox gotta be a few kB most, ea. -- my pipe couldn't disgorge 501 human-sized blox in <2sec | [14:15] |
| asciilifeform: | evidently there's a number of these. | [14:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | a grosse. | [14:15] |
| asciilifeform: | more interestingly, there was even 1 of 10/30/18 17:05:41 ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED from peer 213.148.193.153 | [14:16] |
| asciilifeform: | i.e. it's not simply an alt | [14:16] |
| asciilifeform: | but a reasonably fresh, evidently, forkism | [14:16] |
| asciilifeform: | aactually strike that, CheckBlock is called prior to bastardization litmus, http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1232 | [14:17] |
| asciilifeform: | tests for outrageous timestamps, sad pow, mutilated tx format | [14:18] |
| asciilifeform: | ( i'm not actually certain why we do this test prior to bastardism, there's 0 point running any test on a block that fails do-we-have-its-father litmus . really this is leftover logic from removal of orphanage ) | [14:19] |
| asciilifeform: | btw, BingoBoingo , re waaay upstack -- trb 'throws bastards' from the simple reason that it doesn't keep track of peer heights, and ~always~ retransmits any block that it gets and happily welds to longchain | [14:20] |
| asciilifeform: | to errybody. | [14:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | So, in local bullshit it turns out the closed Zoo still has fucking animals https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/murio-clorinda-la-hipopotama-del-zoologico-de-villa-dolores-20181030115114 | [14:38] |
| asciilifeform: | lolwat! | [14:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | Apparently the bum encampment that is the closed Zoo actually still has exotic animals including this recently deceased hippo | [14:39] |
| asciilifeform: | i gotta wonder what else they've got maybe also a lunapark where only the employees get to ride | [14:42] |
| * asciilifeform | definitely tried to go to this zoo, gate was padlocked erry single day | [14:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | Linked stories at the bottom suggest back in 2016 while they were still closed, some kangaroos were stolen | [14:43] |
| deedbot: | http://qntra.net/2018/10/usg-communications-commisioner-advocates-centralization-and-crackdown-on-unauthorized-radio-frequency-use/ << Qntra - USG Communications Commisioner Advocates Centralization And Crackdown on "Unauthorized" Radio Frequency Use | [15:08] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: phunphakt -- in ye olde su, radio 'hooliganism' (as it was called) was rampant, almost rite of passage for electronics experimenters, and penalty was pretty soft by current-day reich's standards (generally limited to confiscation of the gear. which was made from junkyardwars at any rate, so not particularly big deal) | [15:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | My impression is generally Soviet Union penalties post Stalin were soft compared to current Obamareich | [15:41] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: largely troo. with the exception of a few speshul trainflakes kept in 'психушка' , max term of imprisonment was 15y -- for instance. | [15:42] |
| asciilifeform: | to merit shooting, had to be either spy, or serial killer, or at least illicit gold dealer (1 afaik case , under hruschev) | [15:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform ok, how about this : let K being the key n bits long (say 512), and let f(x) = 2 * K[0] * x ^ n + 3 * K[1] * x ^ n-1 + 5 * K[2] * x ^ n-2 + 7 * K[3] * x ^ n-3 + 11 * K[4] * x ^ n-4 +...+ 3643 * K[n-2] * x ^ 2 + 3659 * K[n-1] * x + 3659. f(x) will produce a pile of bits, this pile is cut in half and xored together, the result is cut in half again. one such half is returned as the prng output the other such half | [15:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | is cut up into as many whole chunks of equal size to K as possible and the resut of their xoring together is the new K. stateful prng. | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: loox, at least superficially, like a ok prng (for tetris at least). but how didja get the idea that it's fit for cipher ? | [15:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | i didn't, i'm just fucking about. | [15:51] |
| asciilifeform: | lolk | [15:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | to use it as a cipher i'd do a K exchange and then f(P-1) xor P = E. where P-1 is the previous message. | [15:56] |
| asciilifeform: | these are very easy to make up. | [15:59] |
| asciilifeform: | much moar difficult to say whether is worth anyffing. | [15:59] |
| * asciilifeform | brb,teatime | [15:59] |
| * mircea_popescu | will now desist. | [15:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | though it seems on some level this is a religious behaviour, "very easy to come up with ideas very hard to evaluate them". well... something's defo broken then! | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, uhm, I thought that there was at least ONE thing clear: namely that "something's defo broken" | [16:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | myeah. | [16:28] |
| deedbot: | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2632 << Loper OS - Terms -88 of the Serpent Ciphers Key Schedule in Algebraic Form. | [16:38] |
| asciilifeform: | lol deedbot hates ellipsisen | [16:38] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu, diana_coman ^ still needs the elementary reduction massage, but i went ahead an' posted, in case somebody wants. | [16:39] |
| asciilifeform: | if we end up not breaking the thing, it'll go straight to generating the verilog logic for the key unroller. | [16:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | pure xor form. nice. | [16:42] |
| asciilifeform: | still needs alge-massager to turn all the e.g. (XOR 1 b21 e21 g21 (XOR 0 a10 d10 f10 h10)) into (XOR 1 b21 e21 g21 a10 d10 f10 h10) | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | it actually helps (with following the whole thing) to see this intermediate step too (rather than just directly the fully massaged version) | [16:51] |
| asciilifeform: | really, 1) flatten the tree 2) group the constants together 3) xor the constants into one 4) eliminate duplicate terms | [16:51] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: is wai i posted | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | aha, thank you! | [16:51] |
| asciilifeform: | lemme know if any part of it dunmakesense. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | will do | [16:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform not like xor is associative, is it ? | [17:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | [bit:31] = (a18 x a28 x a30 x a8 x a9 x b19 x b29 x b7 x c18 x c30 x c8 x d18 x d19 x d28 x d29 x d30 x d8 x d9 x e19 x e29 x e30 x e7 x e8 x f18 x f19 x f28 x f30 x f8 x f9 x g19 x g29 x g30 x g7 x g9 x h18 x h28 x h30 x h8 x h9) ? | [17:08] |
| asciilifeform: | mircea_popescu: it is, try it | [17:08] |
| asciilifeform: | entirely associative, and transitive. | [17:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah yes, obviously. | [17:09] |
| asciilifeform: | an' commutative. | [17:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok, i need to go get some sleep, this is getting ridoinculous. | [17:09] |
| asciilifeform: | nighty | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform, fwiw this code is actually so nice to read and no, I don't see any trouble with it nor anything that doesn't make sense (I did have to search for some of the lisp routines but that's just my lack of lisp-fu and it was easy enough to find out what they do more clearly) | [17:10] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: yay | [17:10] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: later tonight i'ma post the version with reduction | [17:26] |
| asciilifeform: | ... at the end of which, we will know if all of the key bits actually appear in the expansion. | [17:27] |
| asciilifeform: | which will answer the orig puzzler. | [17:27] |
| asciilifeform: | we will also know if some appear more times than others, i.e. producing a nonflat keyspace. | [17:28] |
| asciilifeform: | (contrary to author's claim of entirely-flat keyspace) | [17:28] |
| asciilifeform: | and, if we feel like it, can apply the sboxes of http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.13307-87.14692 and produce a 100%-algebraic statement of the entire key inflater. | [17:29] |
| * diana_coman | will certainly read | [17:35] |
| asciilifeform: | if all (a0..a31, b0..b31, ...) appear in the expansion, then serpent aint actually braindamaged in the sense originally contemplated by asciilifeform . | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | aha let's see | [17:36] |
| asciilifeform: | ( then we can say it is only brainamaged in the sense all sboxisms are ) | [17:36] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl,meat | [17:42] |
| mod6: | Alright folks, my node is back up. And have re-added my list to the advertised republican nodes. | [19:45] |
| mod6: | *my node to the list of | [19:45] |
| asciilifeform: | congrats mod6 | [19:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile in other pantsuit lulz, the emerging convention is to call trump "drumpf". because, see, if someone does, then the repressed awkwardsuckers in the audience know it's SAFE!!! | [20:12] |
| asciilifeform: | lol emerging, kako was doin' it in '16 | [20:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | in-group signalling, obviously someone not in-group would not say "drumpf" just like that. | [20:12] |
| asciilifeform: | ( for all i know, he devised it ) | [20:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | asciilifeform eh, for every eventual hot topic item there's 5k groups-of-friends who think they invented it. | [20:13] |
| asciilifeform: | lolyes | [20:13] |
| asciilifeform: | but funnily enuff that was the only place i ever saw it, prior to mircea_popescu's mention | [20:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm not saying the pantsuit's creative or anything. i'm just amused at how fucking awkward they can get, srsly, need special words for things that only other similar idiots would be using so as not to risk conversation with someone not similarly fucktarded ? | [20:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's exactly like an imaginary situation where the math flunkies agree to call exponentiation "expies", strictly for the reason that this way, if anyone ever says "expies" they can SAFELY (!!!!! important point here !!!!) go into a "omfg how about those expies they're so incomprehensible!!!" routine. | [20:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | Eh, the drumpf thing was a John Oliver cancer. The reason has been resurrected now is the NPC meme people are using it to mock the anti trumpers. It's all part of dismissing pantsuit complaints as "Orange Man Bad" | [20:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | the "safety" being, of course, little expectation to run into a "wtf are you on about, you just multiply, what's to understand". | [20:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | BingoBoingo right, which is the point : minority group is opressed and wanks accordingly. | [20:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yup, cucked by their own old wank | [20:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | "nobody understands us" and "our very existence is threatened, inasmuch as it entirely consists of... our inability to handle broad disinterest wrt our dysfunction". | [20:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suppose the only moral being... "opressed groups are opressed for a fucking reason". | [20:17] |
| mod6: | Can anyone confirm that 37.59.43.190 and 199.204.187.186 nodes are down? | [20:19] |
| asciilifeform: | mod6: confirmed dead | [20:20] |
| mod6: | Thanks. Removed from list. | [20:20] |
| asciilifeform: | meanwhile, asciilifeform has sumthing vehehehery speshul, but aint gonna pons&fleischmann it... | [20:22] |
| mod6: | ! | [20:22] |
| asciilifeform: | errybody luvvs surprised tho. | [20:22] |
| asciilifeform: | *surprises | [20:22] |
| mod6: | not all of us XD | [20:23] |
| asciilifeform: | lol | [20:23] |
| mod6: | Does anyone know if the current eucrypt tree uses keccak hashes in its vpatches? | [21:32] |
| mod6: | Ok, nevermind, they don't seem to be. But I just simply pressed the genesis and it barfed on a README file: | [21:36] |
| mod6: | http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/z10un/?raw=true | [21:37] |
| mod6: | Can anyone else confirm? Maybe I did something wrong or have the wrong file? | [21:37] |
| mod6: | diana_coman's signature seems to match, as the genesis gets loaded into the flow just fine... | [21:38] |
| mod6: | here's my sha512 of the eucrypt_genesis.vpatch: sha512sum patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch | [21:38] |
| mod6: | 671a59e988d62f0c262ff9a1851b44c243d60cb7ee21b8c6f8c64338461eb9b654f002bebed0e162a5631ce5482d584e8bd5964405204258bcb9347345c66f5c patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch | [21:38] |
| mod6: | no huge worries, was just getting prepped to start looking at keccak, and to see if there is a stand-alone binary for keccak | [21:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes the current eucrypt tree uses keccak | [21:52] |
| deedbot: | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2645 << Loper OS - Serpent Ciphers Key Schedule in Algebraic Form: with Reduction. | [22:22] |
| asciilifeform: | http://www.loper-os.org/pub/serpent/serpent_with_reduction.txt << for the impatient. | [22:23] |
| asciilifeform: | folx with their 3rd eye open, can prolly see where this is going. | [22:24] |
| * asciilifeform | bbl,meat | [22:24] |
| mod6: | mircea_popescu: ah, thanks. interesting that the pressed READMEs before it didn't choke. | [22:25] |
| mod6: | oh, that's right, the patch is pressed, ~then~ each of the files touched is hashed & verified. makes sense now. | [22:41] |
| asciilifeform: | spoiler : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-30#1867822 is mistake | [23:05] |
| a111: | Logged on 2018-10-30 21:36 asciilifeform: if all (a0..a31, b0..b31, ...) appear in the expansion, then serpent aint actually braindamaged in the sense originally contemplated by asciilifeform . | [23:05] |
| asciilifeform: | lessee if mircea_popescu or diana_coman beat me to the pill, i'ma not spoil the exact algo just yet. | [23:06] |
| phf: | mod6: just fyi i was able to press eucrypt using v.pl by patching it to use vtools's `ksum' for hashing instead of sha512sum and `vpatch' for pressing instead of gnu. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PZ4hX/?raw=true | [23:21] |
| phf: | the hash verification is not really necessary, since vpatch does it already, but above changes are drop in (could e.g. switch between vtools and legacy with a flag) | [23:24] |
| mod6: | phf: heeey, thanks! | [23:27] |
| deedbot: | http://bimbo.club/?p=71 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/25/2018 | [23:35] |
Category: Logs
