Forum logs for 15 Mar 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
* mircea_popescu shall finally offer to round off the lulz. [01:34]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 23:42 mircea_popescu: ault. this is what the mass-romanian is and does, nobody is needed to "do it to him", much like nobody's needed to drag shit into lelea saveta's cunt. she does it, by herself, every time she wipes. [01:34]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in today's installment of "how to fuck over internet scholars" : take the chunk popper attributes to kant ("I do not wish to hide the fact that I can only look with repugnance . . upon the puffed-up pretentiousness of all these volumes filled with wisdom, such as are fashionable nowadays. For I am fully satisfied that . . the accepted methods must endlessly increase these follies and blunders, and that even the com [03:52]
mircea_popescu: plete annihilation of all these fanciful achievements could not possibly be as harmful as this fictitious science with its accursed fertility.") and have them source teh original german. [03:52]
mircea_popescu: whole internet fulla references to a purely imaginary object, that ironically enough discusses... ITSELF. [03:52]
mircea_popescu: then they wonder why sokal had ~0 measurable impact. duh. [03:52]
mircea_popescu: was it the prolegomene ? no such wonder there. was it then the kritik, ~only book anyone can even name anyway ? mnope. WHAT COULD IT BE!!! [03:53]
diana_coman: -> "noi ne facem ca muncim, ei se fac ca ne platesc" (we pretend we work, they pretend they pay us) so I'd say it was more the case that there were a few actually working and all the rest being clever just like now in a different socialism. [09:07]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:00 mircea_popescu: yes, romanians thought "theyt're working". they were playing, 9 cases out of 10. [09:07]
diana_coman: -> I always thought jeans were cowboy stuff, not miner and at least initially part of the "waiting for the americans" i.e. a tribute to an imagined greatness how it morphed afterwards into an uniform I have no idea. [09:12]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:14 mircea_popescu: chicks wanted jeans, what. because miner garb is SO COOL OMG. [09:12]
diana_coman: -> I never understood why can't the new ones be *trained* esp since it's not like they are sososo busy that they can't use the time and learn something at work. [09:20]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 02:31 mircea_popescu: i have doubts it'll survive the passing of the current generation, the girlies in the shop are utterly confused at proceedings that seem only natural to her and me, but what can you do. [09:20]
diana_coman: ftr in my experience it's not only a lack of practical experience but literally, they have no real idea re what they are supposedly selling, it's all the same to them, what. [09:20]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i do not believe so. [10:34]
mircea_popescu: this "i could do work ~if i wanted to~" is the unconvincing bullshit spewing quite naturally out of any inept narcissist since before the invention of the word. [10:35]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, re what? [10:35]
diana_coman: ah, it wasn't that they could do work, no it was that they knew they did not it [10:35]
diana_coman: did not do it. [10:35]
mircea_popescu: in ACTUAL FACT, romanian worker of the 80s got ~120% the value of his labour, by an over-welfarist government, wrote himself hallucinated options to consider this "insufficient" to an entirely ridiculous standard, and proceeded from there with a web of lies. [10:35]
mircea_popescu: this tendency perpetuated past the shooting, and is visible in eg [10:37]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, no argument there, lol. [10:37]
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, instead of saying "the party is ~exactly truthful~ in what we ~falsely~ call propaganda, and we are making here WAY the fuck more than we could anywhere else, and without it we'd be exactly like zaire", they came up with bs. [10:38]
mircea_popescu: so no, it's not "ei se X, noi ne Y". it's very much the other way around : noi ne Z (=ne cacam pe noi), ei fac ce pot sa se prefaca ca de fapt nu. [10:38]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, note that I worded it precisely in *that* order, starting with "noi ne" . I don't know what/who you are arguing there, lol. [10:39]
mircea_popescu: well, not you, lol. just tryina put the implicit explicitly for the innocent reader. [10:40]
mircea_popescu: the important part, to my eyes, is to underscore that the "being clever" was NOT, as the "clever" in question silently ie implicitly misrepresent, a case of "choice", ie, "seeing how little i get paid i react thusly". the "clever" in question was very much what such "clever" ever is : "seeing what a fucktard i am, this is what i could pretend is '''really''' going on to not have to confront it". [10:42]
diana_coman: linking it back up, the breakup of the cosy place for the clever idler was I suspect precisely what they meant by "mean" in [10:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 09:56 spyked: diana_coman, I suspect this was mostly a case of "revision is well-received, but don't change anything" which is why iliescu/fsn had so much support and average derp saw the taranisti as "way too mean" (no idea precisely what "mean" means, that's what I've been told) [10:42]
mircea_popescu: fuck, the exact process is visible both among a subset of trilema commenters during the romanian years and superset of other-romanian-bloggers, then as now. [10:42]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman quite so, definitely. [10:42]
asciilifeform: reminded me of old interesting tidbit [10:43]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I'm quite sure it's clearly visible in today's western socialism too. [10:43]
diana_coman: not as if it's specific romanian this, sadly. [10:43]
mircea_popescu: re the "cowboy stuff" : all the us "wild west" stuff is a cheap and quick daghuerotype after spanish traditions of the time. this is visible if one studies say the horse working (this is a term of art) as practiced in spanish-speaking lands comparatively to english-speaking lands. everything is visibly a model to scale, and to this day the cultural overwhelm of spanish lands in all fields related is overwhelming. [10:44]
mircea_popescu: in ~this sense~ us cowboy started wearing ~a little~ denim as the west states textile industry developped. originally it was miner garb. then it was extended to make tent sheet for army. THEN it was taken by cowboy to replace the much more expensive LEATHER the spanish were wearing. [10:45]
mircea_popescu: this said, the french (and somewhat italian, hence all their lolwesterns) 50s/60s "wild west" fixation did in fact produce an abstract (and not much related to any reality) euro-cowboy, sure. [10:46]
asciilifeform: ddr also filmed surprisingly large pile of lulwesterns ('easterns' to aficionados) [10:47]
mircea_popescu: aha. and french period mags for kids are fulla "indian-sympathy" pieces (the french had a very unique take to the gibbering nations among colonial powers, they wanted to make america a sorta africa, "continue traditions undisturbed") [10:47]
mircea_popescu: who's to say it wouldn't have been better, tbh. note how the "equal to capitol" german colony they ended up ~is very much reverting~. they got the matriarchy back, they got the stupid-lazy-itsok back, hard to distinguish today's "american" from yesterday's cherokee. [10:48]
mircea_popescu: one could argue all those gunslingers died in vain. [10:49]
mircea_popescu: the west states << obv i mean east states, penn, ny, mass & co [10:52]
mircea_popescu: << in other keks. [10:54]
asciilifeform: lol i remember that site, was popular before 'www game' state of art converged to lolcat [10:55]
asciilifeform: 2000s. i had nfi still existed. [10:56]
mircea_popescu: i am actually clicking through choices here lol. [10:58]
asciilifeform: i'd like to request 5min of mircea_popescu wearing papal regalia . ch17 ffa , as perhaps was clear from , has a control-transfer stack ( for loops & subroutines . ) it, like errything else, is nonheapistic, therefore has a fixed size. currently set to 256. this constant gotta be nailed down. is 256 enuff? too small? too big ? [11:06]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_ [11:06]
asciilifeform: would like to discuss before i sign the ch [11:07]
mircea_popescu: 256 bytes ? [11:07]
asciilifeform: entries [11:07]
asciilifeform: they hold tape positions (these are of bus width) [11:07]
mircea_popescu: so basically 256 bytes / 1024 octets [11:07]
asciilifeform: 256 * 64bit on this particular machine, e.g. [11:08]
asciilifeform: ( on a 32bit, 256 * 32bit , etc ) [11:08]
asciilifeform: this means you can have e.g. 256 nested loops, 256 levels of subroutine calling subroutine, etc [11:08]
mircea_popescu: right, 256 bytes aka 1024 octets on 32 bit machines and 2048 octets in 64 bit machines. [11:08]
asciilifeform: ( ffa does not deal directly in octets , the smallest access to storage is in unit of bus width. hence endianism-free ) [11:09]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think 256 is perfectly defensible. should be obvious what knob to twiddle for less or more anyway, admitting either one's trying to make ffa fit into tiny embed or use it for who knows what unforeseen purpose on large machines. [11:10]
asciilifeform: it's a knob aha. [11:10]
asciilifeform: thing is, if you turn this knob, you can write a tape that's incompatible with someone who hasn't turned [11:10]
asciilifeform: hence gotta standardize [11:10]
asciilifeform: recursion is incidentally prohibited, so there aint much point imho in gigantic controlstack [11:11]
asciilifeform: orig. i had it set to 8, but decided that's unjustifiably spartan [11:11]
asciilifeform: at one time i was considering to make it adjustable on cmdline, but already have 4 params the user must give ( fz bitness, datastack height, max 'life' , and tapespace len ) and that's already much, calculating exact footprint for given invocation already requires thought [11:13]
asciilifeform: ( for n00bs/readers -- ffa has fully deterministic memory footprint, by design, and 100% of what it'll use, lives on the stack, e.g. under unixlikes, setbrk() is not invoked ) [11:15]
asciilifeform: anyway if neither mircea_popescu nor anyone else files an objection today, it'll be 256 ( at least for the next few chapters ) . [11:17]
mircea_popescu: i think it's fine as it is. [11:17]
asciilifeform: aite [11:17]
asciilifeform: btw , crib sheet for -- ':' puts current position on control stack ',' pops a fz from datastack , a tape pos from controlstack, and if the fz was nonzero, control is transferred to the popped pos. '' simply pops the next pos from controlstack. [11:19]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:51 asciilifeform: !A .5:[Foo].3:[Bar].1-",_.1-",_ [11:19]
asciilifeform: ( '' is meant to be used with subroutines (ch18) but can also be used to make 'infinite' loop, as illustrated in . 'life' being typically finite, program still halts ) [11:20]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-14 01:52 asciilifeform: !A :[Ho] [11:20]
asciilifeform: controlstack is over- and under-flow proof , similarly to the data stack from ch4-16. [11:20]
asciilifeform: this is 'forth-like' just like the rest of the mechanism. [11:22]
asciilifeform: the applicable traditional mathematical model for peh is 'turing with finite tapes'(tm) [11:22]
asciilifeform: to use ,/ as 'goto' is stylistically prohibited, if tape leaves control stack nonempty at the end of the life, operator gets a warning. [11:24]
asciilifeform: ( moar spoilers : the other added item, other than 'registers' (discussed previously) is 'verdict'. all tapes produce a verdict, it is returned to calling process under unixlikes ) [11:26]
asciilifeform: << verdicts. [11:27]
* asciilifeform brb,teatime [11:27]
mircea_popescu: well, thgat didn't last : "A custom field was removed from your nation as it was found to be in violation of site policy: animal: "Obama" [11:28]
mircea_popescu: Please familiarize yourself with the site rules on acceptable content. Restoring a mod-deleted custom field may result in your nation's deletion." [11:28]
mircea_popescu: imagine these fucktards! i can't call my imaginary nation's imaginary animal the same as that other imaginary nation's equally imaginary animal! [11:31]
mircea_popescu: i guess usg got copy-right or some shit ? [11:31]
mircea_popescu: speakinbg of which, anyone remember the set of "anti-bitcoin" tards grouped around usg.pantsuit office over at "something awful" going about talking of "bit-coin" as fucking if that did something ? [11:32]
mircea_popescu: perhaps time to start talking of copy-right and demo-cracy etc. [11:32]
mircea_popescu: hu-man. [11:33]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> << in other keks. << For a lawless wasteland they aren't even all that well armed [11:34]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo my interest didn't survive the hour. turns out it's yet another by-morons for-morons thingee. [11:37]
BingoBoingo: It gets my attention for about half an hour every few months. [11:38]
BingoBoingo: The fallout from the decisions has degraded in sensibility over time. [11:39]
BingoBoingo: In the limited time I do remember it exists, I simply try to drive up crime and weapon ownership per capita [11:46]
feedbot: << Qntra -- USG Burns "Delayed Notice Warrants" To Place Cameras In Massage Parlor For Prostitution Bust [11:47]
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, since hydro was mentioned yest : one of the largest hydro development in europe is the "iron gates" complex, partnership between romania and serbia, taking advantage of danube. [11:57]
mircea_popescu: the romanian side produces ~5.2 TWh per year. the serbian side, ~5.7 TWh. [11:57]
mircea_popescu: whence the difference ? they're halves, aren't they ? here's the lulz : romania bought newer, nominally more efficient generating equipment. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: it is down so much, overal productivity is nevertheless 10% lower. [11:58]
mircea_popescu: hurray for progress! [11:58]
BingoBoingo: lol [11:58]
mircea_popescu: (at the time this was completed, early 70s, it was pretty much the largest hydro plant in the world). hoover dam, for instance, had <2MW installed capacity, vs the >2MW here. [12:01]
mircea_popescu: and this before we even discuss capacity factors (high drop like there necessarily has low capacity factors, low drop like here the opposite) [12:01]
mircea_popescu: << because their mental eh what the hell, ima write an article. [12:05]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 13:20 diana_coman: -> I never understood why can't the new ones be *trained* esp since it's not like they are sososo busy that they can't use the time and learn something at work. [12:05]
feedbot: << Ossasepia -- EuCrypt Chapter 16: Bytestream Input/Output Keccak [12:25]
diana_coman: phf please snarf ^ [12:26]
asciilifeform: << bahahahaha. and pretty sure this is recent (relatively), usedtobe all sortsa folx had 4th, 5th, reiches, in there [12:29]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 15:28 mircea_popescu: well, thgat didn't last : "A custom field was removed from your nation as it was found to be in violation of site policy: animal: "Obama" [12:29]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect that's more acceptabru. [12:38]
BingoBoingo: Well someone who wants a reich is easy to put on a USG.lolcow watchlist. Someone who identifies Obama as an animal risks getting sympathy from the folks employed reading USG watchlists. [12:40]
BingoBoingo: Policeman White see fellow on Nazi watchlist "I've killed those fuckers in xBawks game", Policeman Brown sees fellow on Obama is an animal watchlist "I ought to buy the man a beer and compare notes" [12:43]
asciilifeform: << moar re ch17 'verdicts', in re earlier thrd. [13:12]
feedbot: << Trilema -- So why can't they be trained ? [13:46]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ^ let me know if it satisfies. [13:47]
* asciilifeform could not resist to bite , [13:52]
* mircea_popescu always answers comments (so will refrain from pointing this out on case by case basis) as well as sees new comments via feedbot rss (so there's nothing gained by pointing one out to him) [14:00]
mircea_popescu: it looks like <feedbot> << Comments for Trilema -- Comment on So why can't they be trained ? by Stanislav Datskovskiy [14:00]
asciilifeform: aaa [14:00]
mircea_popescu: in other obscura : meanwhile i located the clou of the issue. in april 1960, at cluj, gh gh dej stated the party recognizes the right of writers to express themselves "în limbajul epocii noastre" ("in the language of our times"). WHOLE fucking dispute is EXACTLY over whether the ro pantsuits get to the-dreamers or don't get to the-dreamers and protestations of unawareness and "vhs america" are suddewnly extrehehehehemely w [14:18]
mircea_popescu: eak currency to rebuy this. [14:18]
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking thing was whether they get to follow the other sheep down the precipice or have to sit in the rancho. [14:19]
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in older failed republics: [14:45]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: other 'graduates' of same derpublic : yarvin [14:45]
asciilifeform: sad '90s wankers. [14:46]
BingoBoingo: Sure, Sad almost 2020 wankers as well [14:46]
asciilifeform: ( where yarvin ? e.g. here : , << originals wiped in '17, as if that does sumthing ) [14:49]
asciilifeform: 'We weren’t deliberately looking for hacking chops. It was very much about personality and writing, really.' << 'rezistenta prin cultura'(tm)(r)! [14:50]
mircea_popescu: keks, empire still hard at work secreting imaginary effigies of the republic to "defeat" ? [14:53]
asciilifeform: that one afaik 100% 'defeated self', ~100% of the 'graduates' turned into yarvins of 1 kind or another [14:53]
mircea_popescu: there's no other kind of defeat lulz. miami etc. [14:54]
asciilifeform: e.g. 'The first in San Francisco was co-hosted by CDC member Adam O’Donnell, an entrepreneur and a security engineer at Cisco Systems, and Alex Stamos, then the chief security officer at Facebook ... Chris Wysopal, a L0pht veteran who founded tech company Veracode ... Seattle fundraiser for the Senate race ... ' etc [14:56]
asciilifeform: mega-revolutionaries, lol [14:57]
asciilifeform: see also . [14:58]
a111: Logged on 2014-08-31 06:24 asciilifeform: i always use the term 'calmed down' for these people. starting from having played 'half life', where there is a scene of an einsteinesque white coated figure who gets an alien 'headcrab' jump on his head. it takes roots, he struggles for a while, then 'calms down' and ambles on as zombie. [14:58]
diana_coman: -> still digesting it, thank you I started answering here and realised it should probably better go in the comments section so it'll go there. [15:14]
a111: Logged on 2019-03-15 17:47 mircea_popescu: diana_coman ^ let me know if it satisfies. [15:14]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in ancient "why foss sucks" and so on, [17:44]
mircea_popescu: made slightly mroe interesting by it having been written before rather than after linus went dumb. [17:44]
trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm curious whether you're aware of Julian Jaynes. I'm not in a position to assign credit for who first said self-aware consciousness might not come naturally to humans, absent learning it from a parent at a critical age. [19:11]
trinque: whoever said it first, the hypothesis rings true, that consciousness is an arrangement of language in the skull which is by no means human birthright. [19:12]
BingoBoingo: I remember being 3 or 4 in the grocery store produce section and being struck with the awareness that my awareness is stuck in my head alone. That I couldn't bounce my awareness from head to head. There were some very Bush I era fat people and I very much wanted to will them stop eating for a few months. [19:23]
mircea_popescu: trinque do anything for you ? [21:05]
BingoBoingo: Great moments in Trilema comment history [23:42]
mircea_popescu: keks [23:45]
mod6: Update here: Got the irc server built with the proper nick/topic lengths, also ratbox-services configured with the same. Finally got the ratbox-services to connect successfully to the server, but I'm still doing minor config changes there. [23:58]
mod6: But looking good so far! [23:58]
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