Forum logs for 09 Jan 2018

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
danielpbarron: oh hey [00:04]
danielpbarron: !!up l0de [00:05]
deedbot: l0de voiced for 30 minutes. [00:05]
l0de: word up [00:06]
l0de: those guys are cool on that discord [00:06]
l0de: it's just not a free speech zone [00:06]
danielpbarron: i'm in the freestyle voice now, pretty dope [00:06]
l0de: yeah there are some good rappers in there [00:06]
l0de: I'd just save religious stuff for another server [00:06]
danielpbarron: u started it [00:06]
l0de: they will eventually ban you if you go too far [00:06]
l0de: did I? [00:07]
l0de: I can't help it, I'm a troll [00:07]
mircea_popescu: anything good ? [00:07]
danielpbarron: yeah i started with some lil wayne and now they are making stuff up on the spot i guess [00:08]
danielpbarron: !!pay Birdman 0.0224535 [00:32]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [00:32]
Birdman: !!pay lobbes 0.00224535 [00:33]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [00:33]
danielpbarron: you gotta wait a sec lol [00:34]
danielpbarron: also should probably get him to invoice you [00:34]
Birdman: he did [00:35]
danielpbarron: and i should had you invoice me for that matter [00:35]
danielpbarron: !!help [00:35]
deedbot: [00:35]
danielpbarron: read that [00:35]
Birdman: !!balance [00:38]
deedbot: [00:38]
Birdman: !!withdraw .0185 15FzB9hYQMPjFPpSfy9EXqkW7uKKf4LV8X [00:38]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [00:38]
shinohai: !~tadb [07:26]
jhvh1: [07:26]
shinohai: ^ for those that wish to handily refer to link quickly here in forum [07:27]
mats: [08:36]
shinohai: "There is a distinct possibility that the United States might have supplied the FLIR Systems turret the Yemenis claimed to have employed during this shoot down." <<<< lulzy mats [08:38]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [10:36]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14666.54, vol: 13886.97312107 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14660.0, vol: 53272.5690337 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14817.0, vol: 3140.93582623 | Volume-weighted last average: 14668.3064546 [10:36]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Tomorrow at the meeting do you want me to inquire if the datacenter has space at their hall on the other side of town for tiny thing colo, or is that too close when measured in internet cables? [10:38]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fullsized boxen first [10:53]
BingoBoingo: Si [10:53]
trinque: !~later tell Birdman put a 0 in front of that .0185 [11:05]
jhvh1: trinque: The operation succeeded. [11:05]
BingoBoingo: lol [11:19]
shinohai: I'd tell them to piss off back to their own country, they can try to reclaim the Faklands if they want a vacation spot. [11:24]
mircea_popescu: << reviewed this yet again, mostly to include / fix ben_vulpes links and some changes to structure (merged irc bot, v impl and following the guides (which was in red before?!) all into section V, orange.) [11:59]
mircea_popescu: comments welcome! [11:59]
mircea_popescu: shinohai hanbot maybe posting the form via get would allow me to search directly ? or how'd i use this a la !#s ? [12:02]
mircea_popescu: <<< o look, when the saudis "bought" that piece of shit it ... wasn't "corruption" and the saudi state very much does not need to take measure to eliminate the "corruption" of giving usg money. it's only when non-usg gets dough that the idiot neets need to stand up and herpderp on social media about "corruption" amirite ? [12:03]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 13:36 mats: [12:03]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a good thing the usg "coallition" totally won the isis war. [12:04]
shinohai: I am pondering that mircea_popescu ... as hanbot said it would be tedious to dump a bunch of links directly to chan, so I was thinking maybe to a paste. [12:05]
mircea_popescu: mebbeh [12:06]
mircea_popescu: but how do i get my query out to it ? [12:06]
mircea_popescu: << lmao argentina coincidentally waking up to "hey, everyone thinks you're shitheads" after half a century of happy solipsism. [12:08]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 16:19 BingoBoingo: lol [12:08]
mircea_popescu: PIZDI NO PILI, BITCHES! and next time say what and where you read that gave you teh existential angst. [12:08]
mircea_popescu: aand in other lulz from the meatmarkets, "lady_canesworth". [12:16]
mats: its interesting that isis has found sympathizers in south east asia, which has a syncretic islam [12:18]
mircea_popescu: mats i don't expect isis is more islamic than "fuck the us". [12:18]
mircea_popescu: but what do i know, i dun have fifty +1/+1 green beret cultural experts on the ground to write me briefs. [12:18]
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> comments welcome! << you could put grabbing a chunk of trilema to index in there, possibly --though the activity doesn't force presence/participation here in chan [12:20]
mircea_popescu: hanbot like... red ? [12:20]
hanbot: anyway i used post over get because of the (3k?) char limit on get --if someone has a lot of terms to put through, the url could get ginormous [12:20]
mircea_popescu: but would they practically ? [12:21]
hanbot: mircea_popescu prolly yellow morelike [12:21]
mircea_popescu: the average log search is what, 10 chars or such. [12:21]
mircea_popescu: hanbot on meditation, i think it belongs into discreet. i think the idea is very sensitive to idiots "helping", you really don't want rando "contributing" [12:22]
hanbot: i was thinking it'd have to be checked, but sure, could open a door best kept closed, i get it [12:24]
mircea_popescu: can always waylay the possibly-useful later on, not like we don't know whose mind works. [12:24]
hanbot: true [12:25]
hanbot: anyway i'm happy to change to get so stuff can be played with. [12:25]
mircea_popescu: part of the problem is that the syntax is complex, if I want to search for something i have to remember what's what. [12:26]
mircea_popescu: re bot integration i mean [12:27]
mircea_popescu: this actually may be the like... ONE known case to date where i'd rather go to the site and click buttons than type in !~tadb comments=1&blabla [12:27]
hanbot: aha. well a lot of the options on the page atm are just an attempt to offer...more options to folks, lol. typically when i have the missing article problem with trilema it's along the lines of "what was that piece about korea, there was some history in it and a picture, and it was after 2015". not exactly an exhaustive list of checked parameters [12:29]
BingoBoingo: And this is how cutter numbers get long... [12:30]
mircea_popescu: aha. [12:31]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the problem with books in a library isn't even that terrifying, seeing how they usually pick a topic. trilema article picks like a dozen, ikt's all about the interlinks. [12:31]
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, the argument may be brought that dewey was a terrible cost upon human culture and ~the reason us never amounted to anything : the tendency to pick a topic is not unlike the tendency to pick a gender. "i can't think now, since i'm a girl" sorta bs.) [12:32]
BingoBoingo: Right, but the insanity gets worse with the Library of congress system [12:32]
mircea_popescu: it does. [12:33]
BingoBoingo: And then there's OCLC which ends any attempt at sense and soley exists to keep catgenders employed [12:34]
mircea_popescu: in any event hanbot 's attempt actually suggests an approach to quantifying the "That the republic readily exceeds the literate production of the combine of "modern democracies" should be unsurprising that they sorry shelters of the stunted ever manage to reach its quality is altogether dubious." claim. [12:35]
mircea_popescu: just write out the exhaustive topiclist per item and then count links. [12:35]
mircea_popescu: ie what is informally referred to as [12:39]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-07 21:01 mircea_popescu: leaving aside the remarkable poverty of reference, i'd like at least for the few popitems he uses to be at the fucking least correct! [12:39]
mircea_popescu: of course, merely quantitative approaches do not work, lest you end up with a style hacker in those entreprising new worlds bereft of any serious thought. [12:39]
BingoBoingo: !!up aegis [12:50]
deedbot: aegis voiced for 30 minutes. [12:50]
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie [12:53]
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes. [12:53]
knoobie: ty :P [12:53]
mircea_popescu: yw. [12:53]
mircea_popescu: and who might you be ? [12:53]
knoobie: a random! lol [12:53]
mircea_popescu: aite. [12:53]
knoobie: heard of a funny story taking event yesterday in here, so definitely decided to join... hahahah [12:54]
mircea_popescu: what was that ? [12:54]
knoobie: IRCops, trannies and funny shit.. lmao [12:55]
mircea_popescu: uh. mkay. [12:56]
knoobie: =] [12:56]
* knoobie slaps aegis [12:57]
mircea_popescu: !!gettrust deedbot ave1 [12:59]
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 3 by 3 connections. [12:59]
mircea_popescu: hows teh ada musling coming along ? [12:59]
knoobie: mircea_popescu: where you from bud? [13:15]
mircea_popescu: originally, romania. [13:16]
Birdman: !~later tell trinque why put another 0 in front of .0185? [13:19]
jhvh1: Birdman: The operation succeeded. [13:19]
mircea_popescu: cuz that's how it parses numbers lol. [13:19]
Birdman: oh, duh [13:20]
knoobie: reside in US? [13:21]
mircea_popescu: knoobie << guess the location. [13:22]
shinohai: ^ one of my favorite trilemas for some reason [13:23]
mircea_popescu: maybe you just like the blue! [13:23]
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie [13:23]
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes. [13:23]
mircea_popescu: you got a rsa key knoobie ? [13:23]
shinohai: mircea_popescu's bird pics are the best ones though. [13:24]
mircea_popescu: it's fucking easy here, i think place invented birds. [13:24]
knoobie: !!help [13:25]
deedbot: [13:25]
knoobie: i should register.. hey :P [13:25]
* mircea_popescu 's favourite of the later travelpics is [13:25]
mircea_popescu: perhaps unsurprisingly, i always liked crocodiles. [13:25]
shinohai: Their skin makes beautiful leather. [13:28]
mircea_popescu: ever heard one bray ? lol. [13:28]
shinohai: Yup, they sound like a deep huehuehue to me [13:28]
mircea_popescu: ya lol [13:28]
mircea_popescu: it's somewhat a pity internet culture settled on "troll" as the mythological beast. crocodile perhaps much better on cool examination. [13:29]
shinohai: Now you make me think of it, the crocodiles were just as entertaining to watch as the birds when I was in Florida. My trip was strictly for birds! [13:30]
mircea_popescu: those are more like aligators neh ? [13:31]
* mircea_popescu has nfi, originally trhought new world "crocodile" poor copy, real crocodile in africa. then it turned out costa rica has actual bona fide crocodylus [13:31]
shinohai: Nah A"American" crocodiles seem to be extremely North of range in Florida, but those weird swamp people love fucking with them. [13:33]
mircea_popescu: i certainly had some aligator steak to certify the fuck with claim. [13:33]
shinohai: Was it good? [13:34]
mircea_popescu: yes, actually. [13:34]
shinohai: I did not try, only reptile I have ever consumed was the iguana in Guatemala. [13:34]
mircea_popescu: if mod6 came by all nonchalant like and was "hey, i shot a 350 lb shrimp today" what id expect the steak to taste like would be ~alligator. [13:35]
shinohai: mod6 would be proud of me, I managed a pair of quail the other weekend when it snowed. [13:36]
mircea_popescu: o wow, i had no idea you hunted. [13:37]
mircea_popescu: what did you shoot ? [13:37]
shinohai: I have a Winchester Model 12 [13:37]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it's fucking easy here, i think place invented birds. << There's good variety here but the only photogenic motherfuckers are the pigeons [13:37]
mircea_popescu: no i mean for ammo [13:37]
shinohai: I don't go much anymore [13:37]
shinohai: 00 bird cartridges [13:37]
mircea_popescu: is that 2.25mm shot ? [13:38]
mircea_popescu: like 450/oz or so ? [13:39]
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie [13:41]
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes. [13:41]
shinohai: ^ yup 2.25 ... [13:41]
mircea_popescu: aha. yeah. [13:42]
shinohai: <<< When will Parity just fade into nothingness like ? [13:43]
mircea_popescu: wait, is no longer the bees' knees ?! [13:44]
mircea_popescu: next you're going to tell me doge isn't the new ether anymore or something! [13:44]
knoobie: bah, god i hate bots!!! [13:45]
shinohai: Doge managed to get itself back up to 100 satoshi .... still less than the 5cents xD [13:46]
mircea_popescu: knoobie what did bots did to you ? [13:47]
knoobie: mircea_popescu: we just never seem to see eye to eye on things.. lmao [13:48]
knoobie: IT not my field.. lol :P [13:48]
mircea_popescu: what is your field ? [13:48]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> next you're going to tell me doge isn't the new ether anymore or something! << Hey, touched 2 billion market cap this week! [13:49]
deedbot: << Bingo Blog - Reading Russell's Wasp In Montevideo [13:50]
knoobie: heh, used to be a stockbroker/day trader but retired at young age, now finishing it off with BTC :P [13:50]
shinohai: yay inflation! [13:50]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo meanwhile precious cuntlet coin reached TEN FARTZILLION, so there! [13:50]
mircea_popescu: knoobie pretty cool. so what's the bot trouble ? [13:50]
knoobie: also run my own VC, just relocating to Monaco/Dubai [13:50]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeed [13:50]
BingoBoingo: knoobie: What languages do you speak? [13:51]
shinohai: Besides emoji. [13:51]
knoobie: thing wont register, keep spitting out error unable to import.. [13:51]
BingoBoingo: knoobie: You don't import it, you decrypt it [13:51]
trinque: paste the actual whole line you're sending to deedbot here. [13:52]
knoobie: BingoBoingo: English, Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian, and some Turkish [13:52]
mircea_popescu: so if i follow the history correctly here, some tranny made a mistake that accidentally exposed some lie they've been telling themselves for a long time, which they couldn't cope with, so they went on the usual pantsuit bender of "trying to find the correct authority figure to whine/lie to", which resulted in some random retired stockbroker relocating to dubai in joining #trilema. [13:53]
mircea_popescu: this is like all over again! [13:53]
BingoBoingo: knoobie: No Spanish? I was going to suggest Montevideo [13:54]
knoobie: BingoBoingo: Haha, unfortunately not. [13:54]
mircea_popescu: knoobie show what you're trying to do here. [13:54]
shinohai: nihil novi sub sole [13:54]
mircea_popescu: !#s "!!register" << examples [13:55]
a111: 0 results for "\"!!register\" << examples",!!register%22%20%3C%3C%20examples [13:55]
mircea_popescu: uh, [13:55]
mircea_popescu: oh lmao [13:55]
mircea_popescu: !#s "!!register" [13:55]
a111: 121 results for "\"!!register\"",!!register%22 [13:55]
mircea_popescu: ^^ examples. [13:55]
knoobie: ty =) [13:55]
mircea_popescu: hm where's phf go ?! [13:56]
mircea_popescu: << check out this lulzy sheit. [13:56]
a111: Logged on 2017-01-15 23:05 a111: Logged on 2017-01-15 21:47 indiancandy: !!register <だ댧卾ᅟ룱ࢤ�ᫎ䂳䯫证慢ቊ콥贐较本덁㡚࠘譂ꘪ蜈出ᜄ粘锝⛥箥戴ᷜꔐ俟组․ഒ㻒㌕낌ᥥ款ړ忲䧚뾨շ脵됾쓰娊嫥៏䙿槥晥获᷑룜巵歛踈> [13:56]
shinohai: bwahahaha [13:56]
mircea_popescu: unicode is the solution! [13:57]
mircea_popescu: we're still searching for the problem. [13:57]
trinque: the things they stuff into poar deedbot's holes [13:57]
shinohai: btw how did suit shopping go yesterday mircea_popescu ? [13:57]
shinohai: lmao trinque [13:57]
mircea_popescu: shinohai got a coupla more. [13:58]
shinohai: I still want a nice grey one, but no real tailors in area ... subpar Men's warehouse shit where all the threads fall out of seams. [13:59]
* shinohai not falling for that again. [13:59]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [14:01]
knoobie: finally, got it registered.. [14:05]
mircea_popescu: !!key knoobie [14:05]
deedbot: [14:05]
mircea_popescu: !!rate knoobie 1 new blood [14:05]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [14:05]
knoobie: !!ratings knoobie [14:07]
deedbot: [14:07]
mircea_popescu: knoobie give an hour or w/e to get through [14:07]
knoobie: ahh cool, so did i do it correctly? lol [14:08]
mircea_popescu: yes. [14:08]
knoobie: not a fan of bots at all [14:08]
mircea_popescu: why not ? they save a lot of slavegirl busywork. [14:08]
shinohai: Also useful for separating wheat from chaff. [14:08]
knoobie: they do but never really had the need for using them... [14:08]
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine how the republic would work without. [14:09]
mircea_popescu: this also is possibly the chan with the largest concentration / most bot work in the history of irc. [14:09]
knoobie: lol, Ive noticed already [14:10]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all [14:10]
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency rmb [14:10]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14780.02, vol: 13335.94539176 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14763.0, vol: 46285.87161608 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 14875.0, vol: 2958.93678867 | Volume-weighted last average: 14771.9225309 [14:10]
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. [14:10]
mircea_popescu: shinohai wouldn't it make more sense to say "please contact shinohai "? [14:11]
shinohai: But then I'd have to do some work! [14:11]
shinohai: lol [14:11]
mircea_popescu: lol k [14:11]
mircea_popescu: knoobie try your !!up skills. [14:12]
lobbes: << I got lucky one time 8 yrs ago in I went  to local Salvation Army, bought grey suit that still fits me perfectly today for.. $10! "Made in Poland" even [14:22]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 18:59 shinohai: I still want a nice grey one, but no real tailors in area ... subpar Men's warehouse shit where all the threads fall out of seams. [14:22]
lobbes: Probably could still use some tailoring, but I feel ya with the "Not even sure where to find real taylor in US" sentiment [14:24]
* lobbes once worked with a d00d from Jordan who always complained about the shitty state of tailors in the US [14:25]
* shinohai wonders if he could make a fortune by becoming a pantsuit tailor ..... [14:26]
lobbes: "Genuine Pantsuit Skin! Custom fitted!" [14:27]
mircea_popescu: lobbes the lucky part in all this is that you still fit what you fit a decade ago. [14:32]
* mircea_popescu has grown into his adult shape, no longer fits youtful suits / [14:32]
BingoBoingo: Or the girlies aren't taking you on enough walks [14:33]
mircea_popescu: !!up knoobie [14:33]
deedbot: knoobie voiced for 30 minutes. [14:33]
knoobie: cheers [14:33]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ysbut. [14:33]
mircea_popescu: knoobie so what's the problem ? [14:33]
knoobie: now i got the hang of it, but fucked up on the previous key, can i re-register a new one? [14:33]
mircea_popescu: uh. do you stillo have the old one ? [14:34]
shinohai: TOP KEK [14:34]
BingoBoingo: Fucked up how? [14:34]
knoobie: passphrase [14:34]
knoobie: must have had typo, when i specified it.. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: tsk. [14:34]
mircea_popescu: well, you'll have to make a new name. [14:34]
knoobie: (: [14:34]
mircea_popescu: and DO NOT LOSE YOUR KEYS. [14:34]
knoobie: cannot be updated? [14:35]
mircea_popescu: not without the old one. [14:35]
mircea_popescu: also see the cannonical piece on this subject, [14:36]
knoobie: heh, ill guess it, add some dyslexic typo & hopefully works out.. [14:36]
mircea_popescu: try that. [14:36]
BingoBoingo: Well, then gotta relearn once discovered [14:36]
BingoBoingo: But also read the linked material [14:37]
knoobie: yeah, reading it now [14:37]
BingoBoingo: In other fakes: "The fake passage purports to describe a scene from the early days of the Trump presidency in which the new executive expressed frustration that his television didn’t display “the gorilla channel.” When his aides “compiled a number of gorilla documentaries into a makeshift gorilla channel,” the president remained frustrated, insisting that the animals should fight one another. " [14:38]
mircea_popescu: lmao [14:38]
mircea_popescu: is this more from the "i did not vote for this" NEET channel ? [14:38]
BingoBoingo: Yes [14:39]
mircea_popescu: well, i hope at least they were bonobo or silverback or whichever alt-african-american the pantsuit wanks over. [14:40]
shinohai: If he wanted the Gorilla channel, could have just watched the security tapes from the previous administration ..... [14:40]
mircea_popescu: bwahaha [14:40]
mircea_popescu: and i ~tried~ to get the top billed zinger / but... [14:40]
shinohai: >.> [14:41]
BingoBoingo: Perhaps the story is truefax and the aides suck? [14:41]
mircea_popescu: maybe he was just looking for toupee tips. [14:41]
mircea_popescu: !~tr ro to en "coafura rezista" [14:42]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Error: "tr" is not a valid command. [14:42]
mircea_popescu: !~translate ro to en "coafura rezista" [14:42]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: the hairstyle resists [14:42]
mircea_popescu: shinohai wouldja make it tr instead of "translate" ? i have ancestral memories from vragnaroda's bot [14:42]
shinohai: !~tr en to ro Should work now [14:43]
jhvh1: shinohai: Ar trebui să lucreze acum [14:43]
mircea_popescu: dar mersi. [14:43]
shinohai: That does make a bit more sense, good idea [14:44]
mircea_popescu: << m-r also works deterministically if one's inclined. nitpick i guess. [14:56]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-08 16:24 asciilifeform: << whole thing in 1 .txt , for convenience. includes author's sci.crypt-style philosophizing, which is the linkworthy lul to begin with [14:56]
mircea_popescu: but anyway, author sounds like he belongs here. [14:58]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plugging prng in the place of the rng != deterministic algo in the civilized sense [14:58]
asciilifeform: ( it's a schneierism ) [14:58]
asciilifeform: but indeed author 'oughta be here' [14:58]
mircea_popescu: not what's contemplated ? [14:59]
mircea_popescu: m-r is deterministic if you exhaustively search a space of witnesses. [14:59]
asciilifeform: sun burns out first. [14:59]
mircea_popescu: the formula is in the log too, iirc, some logs. [14:59]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not practical, but the guy said "can't"!!1 [14:59]
asciilifeform: about as practical as iteration from 1 to sqrt(n). [15:00]
knoobie: must have been some serious typo on this pass phrase.. :/ & that was a good read from above [15:00]
mircea_popescu: knoobie make a new name/key and take better care of your life! [15:00]
knoobie: mircea_popescu: that was the first time i have chosen to register with a bot.. :/ [15:01]
mircea_popescu: my key, idem. [15:01]
knoobie: ehh, will create new nickname, only reason being is this channel seems, one of the more active :P [15:03]
mircea_popescu: it is. [15:03]
mircea_popescu: "# encrypttoct(): Encrypts a sequence of blocks of constant size of mb bits, on the one side applying the for RSA known method of transformation on the individual blocks, on the other side using certain commonly in symmetric block encryption employed methods, namely plaintext-and-ciphertext- block-chaining (with a pseudo-random IV). A sequence of blocks that stems from the plaintext of the user can thus be encrypted with RSA [15:03]
mircea_popescu: . (Note that this is a direct encryption of plaintext material with the help of RSA and not an encryption of a key for e.g. AES with RSA and afterwards an encryption of the plaintext with AES). Based on this function are the functions rsaencryptplaintexttoct() and rsaencryptbytearraytoct(), which process a user-given plaintext string and byte sequence respectively." << this distinction seems rathger without a difference. [15:03]
mircea_popescu: but it is worth noting he actually rests FORTY m-r witnesses. [15:07]
mircea_popescu: !~calc 4 ^ 40 [15:07]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 4 ^ 40 = 1.2089258196146292E24 [15:07]
* asciilifeform found the item by digging in re 'what is state of the art in guaranteed-prime-generators', in particular 'does anybody have anything resembling an approach to a provably uniform one' [15:08]
mircea_popescu: !#s "mok" "shen" [15:09]
a111: 9 results for "\"mok\" \"shen\"", [15:09]
asciilifeform: wassat [15:10]
mircea_popescu: shinohai mind joining that bs forum and inviting the guy over, either pm or else leave a comment on ? [15:11]
mircea_popescu: zetaboards for the love of fuck. what is wrong with people. [15:11]
mircea_popescu: "# Code lines of documents with the same version number are always identical. There may be interim modifications of comment lines. The most recent document of PROVABLEPRIME can be obtained from:" << the barbarity. [15:12]
mircea_popescu: o hey there. [15:13]
mircea_popescu: "# We use c=0.005 which has been experimentally found to be optimal in processing time for common PC under MS Windows and values of k of practical interest. A different c value may be desirable for use in different computing environments." << check it out asciilifeform ! IT IS SATOSHI ALL OVER AGAIN. why. WHY!!! [15:13]
shinohai: will do mircea_popescu ... gimmie a bit [15:14]
mircea_popescu: fucking gates should be hanged by his guts this pestilence is his legacy upon the third world. no amount of "curing afflictions that beset the subhuman horde" can possibly compensate for having clipped the top. [15:14]
mircea_popescu: shinohai no rush. [15:14]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's even worse in the ru world [15:14]
phf: << i've been out of commisssion since friday, and will be for another couple of days. got brought down hard with a flu, that hasn't happened to me in a while [15:14]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 18:56 mircea_popescu: hm where's phf go ?! [15:14]
asciilifeform: where e.g. folx with 40 yrs of mathematics, honest research, etc in'em... perma-stuck in winblowz [15:15]
mircea_popescu: it's worse everywhere the koreans with their windows banking, /me personally observed mural dedicated to ghandi, jobs and other "great demigod-geniuses of mankind" [15:15]
mircea_popescu: fucking loathsome. [15:15]
asciilifeform: the koreans sum to ~0, whocares [15:15]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform korea is an ancienter civ than russian! and this is kievan not muscovy! [15:15]
asciilifeform: so ancient that nothing remains lol [15:16]
asciilifeform: like the wireless ukrs [15:16]
mircea_popescu: and look why. [15:16]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "common pc", you know ? like "common people". pshaw. [15:16]
mircea_popescu: "the average gender of the human race is computer" [15:17]
mircea_popescu: phf enjoy! [15:18]
mircea_popescu: (and always remember kids -- what doesn't make you stronger, kills you.) [15:18]
asciilifeform: wtf is in a 'common pc' [15:19]
mircea_popescu: common truths [15:19]
mircea_popescu: that are self-evident. [15:20]
asciilifeform: aaapparently [15:20]
phf: well, now that the fever dropped from halucinatory 39 to a pleasant 37.5, i get to experience an mp lifestyle: i just lay in bed and all my whims are catered to :) [15:21]
mircea_popescu: dude, this is painful to read. so he correctly explains the problem with trusting the massive "pki" imperial faux-crypto, "too large to practically read, proven insecure, etc". then ? "# Both communication partners have to download the same version 3x of Python from" [15:21]
mircea_popescu: motherfuckers! how about we just blame the liberals and go to sleep instead! [15:21]
mircea_popescu: phf pie ? [15:22]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also [15:22]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 14:53 asciilifeform: 'hardware isn't easy to build therefore couldn't possibly be necessary, the gods would not have made this level so hard, for me, the hero' or similar. [15:22]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's painful, jesus, guy has the right idea gets fucked anyway. [15:22]
asciilifeform: i collect these. [15:23]
mircea_popescu: crocodile. [15:23]
asciilifeform: hey i dun kill them butterflies, they die by themselves [15:23]
mircea_popescu: true enough. [15:24]
shinohai: Apply more beatings phf, then she will cater through sickness AND health. [15:27]
asciilifeform: in other oldies, seiko's 'DPU414' thermal printer, can be had for <fiddybux, and not only prints 80cols x infinity (continuous tape) but knows how to eat rs232 and... print hexdump (up to 19200 baud) [15:29]
asciilifeform: theoretically this beast will print straight from a (downclocked, change 1ln in fg.v) FUCKGOATS ~sans computer~ [15:30]
asciilifeform: for otp-makin' [15:30]
shinohai: <<< I know it is Kruds on Security, but nonetheless lulzy "Snyder discovered that Overstock’s site just as happily accepted bitcoin cash as payment,....." to any old regular Bitcoin address [15:30]
mircea_popescu: !!key knubie [15:30]
deedbot: [15:30]
shinohai: Thanks Coinbase! [15:30]
mircea_popescu: !!rate knubie 1 new blood [15:30]
deedbot: Get your OTP: [15:30]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice find! [15:31]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're sold by the pallet-full at surpluseries, too. [15:31]
mircea_popescu: aha [15:31]
asciilifeform: eats 110mm tape. [15:31]
* mircea_popescu has some prodigal rolls of 110 mm thermotape... [15:32]
mircea_popescu: you can buy them in multi-lm lengths np [15:32]
asciilifeform: cute little thing. even has battery compartment ( for if mains give out , to finish birthing the buffer... ) [15:32]
asciilifeform: aha they're sold in 60metre roll [15:32]
mircea_popescu: !!up knubie [15:32]
deedbot: knubie voiced for 30 minutes. [15:32]
knubie: cheers :P [15:32]
knubie: deedbot, is a bit delayed... =) [15:33]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ftr this is ~the best otp possible. [15:33]
asciilifeform: aha! [15:33]
asciilifeform: make split-cable to feed 2 seikos [15:33]
mircea_popescu: dualprint, reroll, gtg. [15:33]
asciilifeform: simultaneous print aha [15:34]
mircea_popescu: can fucking use it in "rot13" like scheme! alphabetic xor ftw. [15:34]
asciilifeform: classical su-style otp. [15:34]
mircea_popescu: yes. [15:34]
asciilifeform: hence the mention of the item. [15:34]
mircea_popescu: "if pad has letter D, and you're encrypting, B becomes F. if decrypting, F becomes B. UNBREAKABLE." [15:34]
mircea_popescu: "just burn the roll as you use it" [15:34]
asciilifeform: ( orig 414 was made for use in industrial, medical gear. ) [15:35]
mircea_popescu: anyway. secure comms were never this cheap. [15:35]
asciilifeform: thermal tape dun burn quite as well as ordinary paper ( heat treated ) but it burns ok in a propane or butane flame, or with other accelerant [15:36]
knubie: =) [15:36]
* asciilifeform used thermal tape for meatspace otps for some yrs [15:37]
mircea_popescu: !~later tell aegis wouldja stop with the join/part spam [15:37]
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded. [15:37]
asciilifeform: btw here's a lul : [15:37]
a111: Logged on 2014-07-02 21:13 aegis: nice [15:37]
asciilifeform: !#s from:aegis [15:38]
a111: 4 results for "from:aegis", [15:38]
mircea_popescu: what's the lul ? [15:38]
asciilifeform: that last appeared to nod to ninjashotgun. [15:38]
mircea_popescu: !!rated aegis [15:38]
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated aegis. [15:38]
mircea_popescu: good enough. [15:38]
asciilifeform: vpn/privateinternetaccess/aegis << ahahahahalol [15:39]
asciilifeform: did somebody turn over some old firewood or wat. [15:39]
shinohai: vpn doesn't have ability to run znc obviously [15:39]
mircea_popescu: anyway, friendly reminder : many people run this chan as a main/major part of their tty arrangement, read all the lines, you do NOT wish to advertise yourself as an annoyance. [15:41]
trinque: knubie: I see it giving instant responses, what delayed [15:41]
trinque: !!key knubie [15:41]
deedbot: [15:41]
knubie: trinque: Ahh, worked for me now, had a couple min delay on the otp [15:42]
trinque: I disbelieve, but w/e [15:42]
mircea_popescu: cuz i don't insta-v my otps. cuz why would i. [15:42]
trinque: ah. knubie the command takes effect when someone does !!v [15:43]
knubie: all good, now sorted.. =) [15:43]
knubie: thank you everyone for being helpful [15:46]
mircea_popescu: cheers. [15:46]
mircea_popescu: "# fillerchar: A chosen special filler character to be used. This character is assumed to have no occurrence in the given plaintextstring and is not alphabetical." << holyshit wat. [15:48]
asciilifeform: inbandism! [15:48]
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is why systematic education became a thing. [15:49]
asciilifeform: << possibly see also. [15:49]
a111: Logged on 2015-07-05 23:53 asciilifeform: or that other thread, which i can't seem to find, where we spoke of how 'maths wot is not essential for being published, but for even having publishable ideas instead of burning your life on fibonacci sequences or some other solved/irrelevant dead end' [15:49]
mircea_popescu: pantsuit paradise over here, because really nothing is easier than to brand such efforts. "dude is evidently a cook, look at $example". [15:50]
mircea_popescu: kook* [15:50]
mircea_popescu: "oh, you mean the nut with the fillerchar???" works, if one's inclined/ [15:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so are you implementing maurer in ffa ? [15:52]
asciilifeform: dunnoyet. [15:52]
asciilifeform: i'm not satisfied that it's good for anyffin [15:53]
* mircea_popescu would like at least to have to play with. [15:53]
mircea_popescu: it could be good as in-chan prng. [15:53]
asciilifeform: eventually prolly implement [15:53]
mircea_popescu: nuffinwrongwith that. [15:53]
phf: shinohai: hah, it's not on her in this case, in fact she's relishing the opportunity. it's just not in my nature [15:53]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: adult p has a '?' op [15:54]
asciilifeform: ( not hard to guess what it does ) [15:54]
mircea_popescu: fg and mr ? [15:54]
asciilifeform: just fg [15:54]
mircea_popescu: yes but that's not prime see [15:54]
asciilifeform: fills fz on top of stack up from fg. [15:54]
mircea_popescu: sometimes you want primes, for purpoises. [15:54]
asciilifeform: well yes, that's another op. [15:54]
asciilifeform: 'P' [15:54]
mircea_popescu: oh i see now i misspoke. i didn't mean prng, i meant prpng [15:57]
asciilifeform: wassat [15:57]
mircea_popescu: pseudo-random prime number generator! [15:57]
shinohai: mircea_popescu: I regge'd and messaged him, though his profile shows: Last Activity Mar 4 2017, 10:53 AM [15:57]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we dun have a bounded crapola-to-prime converter. was sorta the orig thread the mauerer thing was a continuation of. [15:58]
mircea_popescu: shinohai ty [15:59]
shinohai: np! [16:00]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, yes, that's what i'm, saying, kinda interesting to see if this may actually work as that. [16:00]
mircea_popescu: so basically, the summary would be, that fellow took symmetric cyphering, sawed it open, used half of the parts for an ad-hoc rsa padding scheme, and implemented the whole kaboodle in python./ [16:08]
mircea_popescu: other than obvious/glaring/cosmetic issues, this isn't even such a terrible idea though the properties of the conventional padding scheme are something you'd regret losing. [16:09]
mircea_popescu: !#s oadp [16:10]
a111: 1 result for "oadp", [16:10]
asciilifeform: oaep [16:19]
mircea_popescu: ^ [16:19]
knubie: Oprah for president? geee what's next.. [16:21]
mircea_popescu: lol 2020 oprah-trump election would rock. [16:22]
knubie: haha, would be fun to watch, must admit.. [16:22]
knubie: who would you consider the favorite [16:23]
mircea_popescu: she could go on the apprentice, he could go on the "obnoxious mammie wants to pretend she reads" show... [16:23]
mircea_popescu: kanzure dr phil. [16:23]
shinohai: lol [16:23]
knubie: lol [16:23]
knubie: add Ricki Lake to the mix.. [16:23]
mircea_popescu: dr phil ie short for phylactery, is mccain's nicjkname neh ? [16:24]
knubie: got such bad heart burn out of nowhere.. [16:28]
diana_coman: knubie, play eulora, might do something either way to that heartburn at least [16:29]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, [16:31]
asciilifeform: '...To the authors’ knowledge, the only known prime generation algorithm for which the statistical distance to the uniform distribution can be bounded is the trivial one: pick a random (odd) integer in the desired interval, return it if it is prime, and try again otherwise. The output distribution of this algorithm is exactly uniform... ...By contrast, the PRIMEINC algorithm... pick a random number and increase it until a prime is [16:31]
asciilifeform: found) only consumes roughly as many random bits as the size of the output primes, but we can show that its output distribution, even if it can be shown to have high entropy if the prime r-tuple conjecture holds, is also provably quite far from uniform... It is likely that most algorithms that proceed deterministically beyond an initial random choice, including those of Joye, Paillier and Vaudenay... ...or Maurer... exhibit similar d [16:31]
asciilifeform: istributional biases.' [16:31]
asciilifeform: ( ) [16:31]
mircea_popescu: yes, likely. [16:31]
knubie: diana_coman: what's eulora? [16:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 2 frenchies, they actually bothered to do a bit of experiment. and found that the 'primeinc' distrib loox nothing like the natural one. [16:34]
diana_coman: knubie, a game by see category logs of #eulora [16:34]
asciilifeform: all kindsa weird. ( and not so hard to think of some reasons as to why. ) [16:34]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform besides the fundamental (you gotta power your guess engine with something, guess whart you're powering it with) ? [16:34]
shinohai: Also knubie /join #eulora [16:35]
asciilifeform: more proximately, kochian ('primeinc') gen will ~never give you the 2nd half of a twinprime pair [16:35]
knubie: diana_coman: thanks [16:36]
trinque: << guess his hands are off his "weapons" again [16:49]
mircea_popescu: why is this in "big government" ?> [16:51]
trinque: maybe trump called somebody. [16:52]
mircea_popescu: who, bannon ? [16:52]
knubie: make Trump great again... [16:52]
mircea_popescu: "steve is a valued part of our legacy" ouch. [16:53]
mircea_popescu: btw, in pantsuit distillate terminology is "legacy" as to the future or as to the past ? [16:53]
mircea_popescu: also what's the diff between executive chairman (ie, member of the board doing the ceo job) and ceo ? [16:53]
trinque: I'd say Trump and Breitbart owners wanted Bannon out after losing Alabama. [16:54]
trinque: as to that, americans love making up titles. [16:54]
mircea_popescu: either that or the "dumb as a brick" comment. [16:55]
mircea_popescu: either that or the "princeling is made of polenta". [16:57]
shinohai: They have to give themselves fancy titles since they can't be a part of The Most Chauvinist Serene Order Of The Holes Gloriouses [16:59]
mircea_popescu: or, possibly, the $100 tomahawk inventory burning resulting in ~0 roi of any kind. or or or. [17:01]
mircea_popescu: << in other lulz, the new york times now free speech fundamentalists. [17:06]
mircea_popescu: a remarkably rediscovered vocation! [17:06]
BingoBoingo: Well, until tomorrow [17:15]
BingoBoingo: Then they return to censorhabit [17:15]
BingoBoingo: [17:41]
mircea_popescu: deep principled inspection! does it say "non pantsuit shouldn't be in position of power" ? FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!11 does it say non pantsuit things ? UNFORTUNATE FREE SPEECH FUNDAMENTALISM!!!! [17:42]
mircea_popescu: everything is good but not in excess, see. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: these fucktards are god's personal gift to comedy goldmines everywhere. just fields upon endless fields of permalactating lulzcows. [17:42]
phf: << xemacs was joint work by sun and lucid, it's hard to say who's the durps here, since it was a bunch of professionals with lisp machine background trying to plug particularly nasty holes in emacs architecture (back before there even was an architecture) [17:43]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-08 00:55 asciilifeform: buncha derps in 1990s ran off to mikehearn emacs, back in the day. [17:43]
knubie: BingoBoingo: wow.. [17:43]
ben_vulpes: good to see that some things never change, like BingoBoingo's taste in news [17:45]
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Just because there's far less of them here doesn't mean they have value [17:45]
phf: my read on the situation is that it's a bunch of lisp machiners taking emacs and trying to turn it into a lisp machine, and rms having a ptsd reaction to it [17:46]
mircea_popescu: the lulz are endless, "wolff is a well known hack of 0 credibility, but his current crop of nonsense confirms '''what we already know''' so tjhere is that". ah, such lulz. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: phf the only contentious portion none of the cucks addressed AT ALL is that lucid also wanted to take over. which may or may not be the right move, but utterly can't be "the one thing we don't talk about". [17:47]
asciilifeform: phf: i dunget it, wtf was so lispm about xemacs [17:48]
asciilifeform: afaik it was and is 100% dross [17:48]
asciilifeform: e.g. variablewidthfonts , jpeg support, etc [17:48]
mircea_popescu: what's your comparison point, emacs 18 ? [17:48]
asciilifeform: sure? [17:49]
mircea_popescu: the data model of period emacs painfully reminds one of original eulora. [17:49]
asciilifeform: what period. emacs today ( genuine emacs, that is ) worx exactly same as 18 [17:49]
mircea_popescu: discussion is what's under the hood not how the gui feels. [17:49]
phf: that's because you don't look under the hood [17:49]
asciilifeform: mebbe because it actually works [17:50]
phf: i don't know if you've spent any significant amount of time with it, but i literally got tricked into installing xemacs first (cause x means it's gui yes?? 97 me) [17:50]
mircea_popescu: the gui focus of their endless flamewars was dumb and not particularily flattering, netiehr for the gabriel/jwz side nor for the rms+retarded eurobois side [17:50]
asciilifeform: phf: metoo actually [17:50]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig emacs pre-dates rms. goes back into the mists of time. [17:51]
phf: but i then used it for a years, and learned elisp with it, and they were clearly making changes to elisp to make it not suck [17:51]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that may be so, but, again, have you looked at the data model ? [17:51]
asciilifeform: phf: for my enlightenment, what changes ? [17:51]
asciilifeform: because... it still sucks [17:52]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not in detail [17:52]
mircea_popescu: this i judge as the right move, otherwise might've hanged self in despair years prior to republic. [17:53]
asciilifeform: yea the other 3 asciilifeforms prolly looked, ate nagant [17:53]
mircea_popescu: anyway, 1990s period /me "emacs is fucked, use vi, at least it's shorter and doesn't do anything" very much related to all this. [17:54]
asciilifeform: it also helps that i dun actually ~like~ emacs. i use it 'через нехочу' [17:54]
phf: asciilifeform first class characters like in common lisp for one, proper defstruct implementation, also they clarified significantly the buffer structure [17:56]
asciilifeform: i dun see what good any of these do outside of an actual lispm [17:56]
asciilifeform: it's like that mircea_popescu article re running dishwasher from tank water [17:57]
mircea_popescu: presumably they do the good where one can at least read through and not want to hurt self ? [17:57]
asciilifeform: it wants city pressure [17:57]
phf: "hey man i just drive this tank, i don't know what makes it work" ok then. [17:57]
asciilifeform: phf: in all fairness, i barfed trying to read sbcl also [17:58]
asciilifeform: pc lisps are more or less all revolting to read. [17:58]
asciilifeform: imho. [17:58]
phf: mircea_popescu: to be fair both xemacs and emacs of that vintage are the height of readable elegance, compared to emacs of any later period [17:59]
phf: so whatever lucid did on top of emacs code was probably an improvement [18:00]
asciilifeform: phf: i'm curious re the politics of the continuing schism. what do the xemacsits and the orig-emacsists actually disagree on in modern day ? [18:00]
mircea_popescu: phf wait, which is it ? [18:00]
phf: which whach? [18:01]
phf: asciilifeform nfi [18:01]
mircea_popescu: you say a) emacs of 1990s were height of elegance andf b) whatever lucid did was improvement [18:01]
mircea_popescu: pick one ? [18:01]
phf: actually i'm not sure i can, it's been a while since i've seen xemacs internals (i.e. >10 years). the point i was trying to make is that emacs ascii is talking about is a wholy different beats from the 1990s items, which were at the very least not cancerous [18:03]
mircea_popescu: ah. i dunno, i guess not cancerous in the "but i got id saying im female" sense but very much had the clap. [18:04]
asciilifeform: this is tempting me to excavate ancient emacses.. [18:04]
mircea_popescu: in the EXACT sense of, "well i dunno what to do with this data and so here's me warping a vector into a string" [18:05]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-09 20:48 mircea_popescu: "# fillerchar: A chosen special filler character to be used. This character is assumed to have no occurrence in the given plaintextstring and is not alphabetical." << holyshit wat. [18:05]
phf: so emacs had some architecture, lucid took that architecture and tried making it more of a lisp machine (i.e. better foundation for writing elisp applications), then they tried pulling google.vs.linus and failed [18:05]
mircea_popescu: eh nfi, lucid tried to make it a qt app. except qt didn't exist yet. [18:05]
mircea_popescu: nfw* [18:05]
mircea_popescu: because "commercial" meant "clicker monkeys" and whatevers. [18:05]
phf: i can buy that interpretation [18:05]
mircea_popescu: and rms saw ~no value in supporting x, especially if that was going to break any more of the thoroughly broken bag of fractures they were tending as emacs 18 [18:06]
mircea_popescu: besideswhich, at the time it was entirely unclear x will survive. [18:06]
phf: x was already supported in emacs by then [18:06]
mircea_popescu: imo it's a wonder it did. [18:06]
mircea_popescu: phf this term belies a variety of realities. [18:06]
mircea_popescu: "supported". [18:06]
asciilifeform: as supported as now. [18:07]
phf: nah, definitely not, now emacs has an ungodly amount of xemacsisms in it. variable sized reflowable inline objects, that are also x11 windows and such [18:07]
asciilifeform: they couldn't embrace&extinguish, so infiltrated and poisoned yea [18:08]
phf: heh, that's a twist [18:09]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect the political divide is 100% xemacs will only accept merger INTO xemacs, which is to say, to get rid of rms, because he's useless / other camp can't get over "rms is useless". [18:09]
phf: i wonder of customize- facilitiy was already there by 18 [18:10]
mircea_popescu: tbh and fwiw, if i ran the xemacs i would not permit rms anywhere near any sort of merged variant either. [18:10]
asciilifeform: rms is a mushroom nao, tho [18:10]
phf: for the curious emacs 18.59 2039069b where's 22.3 is 48010347b (that's just c,h and el) [18:17]
phf: and looking just at the kernel (and generously ignoring various xlibraries and shitplatforms for 22) 497576 and 1439148 respectively [18:19]
shinohai: <<< "a goal to enable all human beings on earth to find their perfect sexual partner anonymously." What kind of sense does that even make? [18:22]
mircea_popescu: "i would like money from the internetz on my own terms kthx" [18:23]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1990s rms, either. man was possibly the worst middle management i ever saw. [18:23]
mircea_popescu: and contrary to his grandiose aspirations (which came and went, so not uniform at least), he never was more than that, alcatel drone X on floor Y. [18:24]
asciilifeform: this is next best thing after ilf & petrov's famous 'cures foot itch, mice, and peeling paint' [18:24]
mircea_popescu: sure, he's the only one of the cuckarmy that even stepped forward etc. [18:25]
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, i can't think of any project that actually thrived under his management. systemd tard pm'd circles around a decade's worth of collected rms effort in half a year. [18:25]
mircea_popescu: this is not nothing even if it isn't the something one'd like it to be. [18:26]
asciilifeform: dunno that rms actually ~did~ anything in past 20+ yr. the man is a living flag. [18:26]
mircea_popescu: i can accept that terminology above statement becomes "of fucking course lucid didn't want an inanimate object seated in the chair" [18:26]
mircea_popescu: "nor would whatever successor today". [18:26]
mircea_popescu: phf also, the split didn't happen around 18.59, it happened around whatever the fuck it was, 18.10. there was a period when both lucid and fsf were releasing "newer" minor versions, skipping the other's. [18:30]
phf: yeah, 59 is the earliest one i have [18:31]
mircea_popescu: but that was what, 1993 ? iirc jwz item was 1991 ? [18:31]
mircea_popescu: not to mention they were both proceeding off "alpha" 19 which had been brewing at that time for at least 18 months. [18:32]
mircea_popescu: meaning you need a 1990s emacs, serious antiquariania over here. [18:32]
phf: a proper base for genesis! [18:33]
mircea_popescu: TECMAC! [18:33]
phf: heh, previous amuzing thread on mr. gabriel [18:33]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-09 21:04 ascii_field: << r. gabriel was the 'worse is better' guy. [18:33]
phf: oh ffs, literally down two lines down in the logs [18:34]
mircea_popescu: ok, here, jwz variant : emacs 18.48 released 18sep1987!!!! off which they started epoch, and 18.55 off which they based both 19 and through that venue lucid version [18:34]
mircea_popescu: [18:35]
mircea_popescu: so the point of comparison would be i guess either 48 or 55 [18:35]
mircea_popescu: apparently mule was originally "nihongo emacs" ? hurr. [18:35]
asciilifeform: phf: i'd actually rather see a resurrected zwei, than ancient cmachine cruft emacs, really [18:37]
mircea_popescu: (the whole nihongo affair may be interesting to the student of high functioning autist idiocy because it's to my knowledge the only documented case of japanese being incredibly fucking dense in the sense of "dumber for being smart than if you weren't smart at all") [18:37]
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suspect this was at the time the true problem : jwz wanted to unicode the japanese way and rms didn't even understand what's being discussed (which -- major fucking failure for the role, incidentally). [18:39]
mircea_popescu: but, new stockings parade demands my presence, so bbl. [18:39]
phf: naggum was pro unicode also [18:45]
phf: mule is probably part of the greater concern within the overal situation which was japanese and unicode [18:48]
phf: japs hated unicode for own, peculiar reasons, and still mostly do. the solution they were trying to push through on emacs actually supported their peculiar use case. [18:50]
phf: oh a relevant thread [18:52]
a111: Logged on 2016-08-03 15:40 phf: the whole font changes meaning take two is coming from the japanese. they were actively promoting this idea back during early unicode standardization days, where there was a strong drive to include every idiosyncratic version of kanji in the standard, because "that's how my family writes it in our last name". [18:52]
knubie: night all. [19:10]
* esthlos is interested in what folks think of [19:23]
ben_vulpes: certainly suspect in that nowhere does it mention the supreme import of writing code *to be read* [19:27]
ben_vulpes: also the notion that technical issues aren't business issues simply points to the coolie-nature of the typical cpp slave likely to read such pap. certainly not the case where i'm concerned the quality of code and systems delivered and maintained are of the *utmost* concern to the biz. [19:29]
ben_vulpes: !#s if you're reading it it's for you [19:30]
a111: 11 results for "if you're reading it it's for you", [19:30]
esthlos: I was wondering what happens if you replace "software development" with "physics", and see it that way. [19:30]
esthlos: but could counter with: proper replacement is "engineering" [19:31]
ben_vulpes: well if you ship machines with a screamingly loud resonance because you took the pressure-hood's line feed directly off the air bearings feed lines without damping reservoirs most likely your office will never be tasked with anything other than sustaining work ever again [19:32]
ben_vulpes: which is the opposite of the cppmeatfield where a thing going over budget and timeline simply results in bigger budgets and longer timelines [19:33]
ben_vulpes: because software is a [19:33]
ben_vulpes: !#s lemon market [19:33]
a111: 16 results for "lemon market", [19:33]
esthlos: yep, that sounds right [19:38]
ben_vulpes: btw mircea_popescu: any lolz ever fall out of or did it fade away in horror at the magnitude of the task of even determining wtf tmsr is [19:39]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-08 18:32 Swant: Because from what some other users have told me it's for buying and selling porn... [19:39]
ben_vulpes: 'it' btw useful pronoun for wot nonpeople [19:39]
shinohai: Careful ben_vulpes, you might trigger it [19:41]
phf: "lord vulpes, drunk with power, shooting the coolies from the back of his veranda" engraving, ca 2017 [19:41]
shinohai: lol [19:42]
phf: the esteemed gentelman of the Inquisition is still with us, and, at present, is retired [19:42]
ben_vulpes: oh i'm well aware! [19:43]
shinohai: From today's trilema update "Bear in mind that it is deemed unethical within the Republic to write code if you haven't actually learned how to write it first, and that orcs' claims to have taught you something often turn out fraudulent upon examination." [19:43]
ben_vulpes: phf: sadly all i have is a porch roof, bb gun, and alley full of squirrels and the occasional methwitch [19:43]
ben_vulpes: shinohai: where is this? [19:44]
shinohai: [19:45]
ben_vulpes: aah [19:45]
phf: besides it's only legal to discharge arms within portland city limit if you're participating in some sort of non-marijuana drug related activity [19:46]
ben_vulpes: you have to be a velo, actually [19:48]
ben_vulpes: brandishing deemed legitimate self-defense if you can unholster without falling over [19:49]
phf: huh, the world is a large and complicated place [19:50]
ben_vulpes: casual violence against sharing-economy cucks also encouraged [19:52]
mircea_popescu: phf iirc naggum was very anti-mule [20:01]
phf: right, anti-mule, pro-unicode [20:03]
mircea_popescu: well, it's not clear to me his position was ever pro-unicode outside of a platonic object unicode was about as much as smgl was. [20:03]
mircea_popescu: "computers should do things" "yaaay" "here's the things" "OMFGWTFBBQ" [20:04]
mircea_popescu: anyway, jwz's own history, self-serving as it is, nevertheless seems accurate to me : mule is what was left once all the inept [20:05]
mircea_popescu: nihongo they could figure out how to amputate was snipped. [20:05]
phf: right, platonic unicode, i think it was more aligned even with common lisp's notion of character object or somesuch, than what the spec actually become. i think he might've ranted somewhere about ms fucking it up and such [20:06]
mircea_popescu: right, basically his internal, sadly unvoiced position was "oh, unicode is what you kids wanna call native lisp character model ? mmkay, i r agree" [20:07]
phf: hah, you know that might be the gift of his delusion [20:07]
phf: err gist [20:07]
mircea_popescu: jesus that phrase came out hard to parse. let's parens : (well, (it's not clear to mei))) [20:08]
phf: you calling me esl! [20:09]
mircea_popescu: phf which is the fucking problem with the sort of mind. by avoiding to correctly order output (ie, most significant byte first!!) and ESPECIALLY by failing to correctly filter output (least controversial part is filtered, least copacetic part is passed, NOT the other way around!!!) is what mires technical discussions altogether. [20:09]
mircea_popescu: phf not you, but future me. i will be senile one day, in 2075, and i might need to read this. [20:10]
phf: i think somehow lisp symbols tie into this, i'd call it sanskrit thinking, because you also see that a lot in sanskrit. let's attach as much meaning to this symbol as we possibly can, but when we speak the correct meaning will be communicated because the other person is also a vedic god [20:11]
mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of roman numeral systems, the dumbest thing about writing is that , doesn't come with a symmetric-comma. [20:12]
mircea_popescu: NOT EVEN UNICODE HAS IT. i looked. [20:12]
mircea_popescu: phf in principle and up to a certain degree this can be pulled off. but the management of that degree tree is i'd say the principal job of cultural management. because holy shit the failure modes. [20:13]
phf: so he might be saying ishvara, but the pleb is going to hear yahve. he should be expecting significant misunderstandings further down the communication [20:13]
mircea_popescu: have you noticed how chock full of this trilema is btw ? [20:13]
mircea_popescu: if i say jew right now it's not even possible to figure out what i mean. [20:13]
asciilifeform: oblig alt-orccode: [20:14]
a111: Logged on 2017-07-22 21:11 asciilifeform: at the cost of a bit of log clutter, let's indulge asciilifeform's crackpottery, and lay out 妓 ( U+5993 : whore ) : [20:14]
mircea_popescu: << seems to me entirely contenfree. [20:14]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-10 00:23 esthlos is interested in what folks think of [20:14]
phf: Send Trump there with a one-way ticket? [20:15]
phf: err, that was wrong paste buffer [20:15]
mircea_popescu: lmao [20:15]
asciilifeform: << this was the 'natural stupidity and artificial intelligence' thread [20:16]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-10 01:13 phf: so he might be saying ishvara, but the pleb is going to hear yahve. he should be expecting significant misunderstandings further down the communication [20:16]
asciilifeform: with the 'suggestively named tokens' [20:16]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the doctrine that "alternative interpretations fall off as the tree is built" has two major weaknesses : a) you'd be surprised how often there's an unexpected fault in the dielectric and b) you'd be surprised how often people get caught in emo insanity. [20:17]
asciilifeform: plox to expand? [20:17]
mircea_popescu: let's formalize. [20:17]
mircea_popescu: suppose you have a set of symbols S1..Sn each with meanings Mij, i in n j in k. suppose you have a grammar G which has one function : if adding element Sx to a string made of q S, it permits you to discern which Sij are thereby invalidated. [20:19]
mircea_popescu: the interpretative theory (T) states that for all possible strings there is at most one M per present S. those which have exactly 1 for all S are called well formed the rest malformed. [20:19]
mircea_popescu: the PROBLEM with this constructive view of hermeneutics is that a) often G fails in its function and that b) just as often people fail to correctly apply it, impredictably and unreasonably. [20:20]
mircea_popescu: "cultural management" discussed above is in this model the curation of permissible M overload on given Sn and the construction of G such that T is maintained. [20:20]
mircea_popescu: a very strong ideal property of this is given in which is a large part of the problem and also serves as illustration -- who the fuck knew that random whore story from 2014 is actually an expose on generative grammar. [20:23]
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> if mod6 came by all nonchalant like and was "hey, i shot a 350 lb shrimp today" what id expect the steak to taste like would be ~alligator. << yeah, probably would! [20:34]
mod6: <+shinohai> mod6 would be proud of me, I managed a pair of quail the other weekend when it snowed. << niiiiice! [20:34]
mircea_popescu: (in the story it's just used to characterize the male character as omnipotent but as literature is never divorced from ideology...) [20:35]
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah i hope he lemon-buttered those with artichokes. [20:35]
mod6: i went hunting on sunday and the dog flushed up what I thought was a hen. was a hawk, eating a hen! [20:35]
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, yeah, that'd be great [20:36]
mircea_popescu: o god. did you actuasllyu shoot it ? [20:36]
mod6: na. i saw it get up, had it in my sight picture, could have pounded it. was only like 10 yds from me. but when i saw the tail feathers fan out, i let off. [20:37]
mod6: can't shoot those here. [20:37]
shinohai: I did lemon-butter them, asparagus, no artichokes :/ [20:37]
mircea_popescu: << nfi, not been following that closely. [20:37]
a111: Logged on 2018-01-10 00:39 ben_vulpes: btw mircea_popescu: any lolz ever fall out of or did it fade away in horror at the magnitude of the task of even determining wtf tmsr is [20:37]
mod6: but yah, anyway, was pretty unreal. haha. [20:38]
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah, they were protected in old country most places also, it was the #1 trimmer of noob hunters. "don't wait to see what you're shooting, get a falcon, spend 2 weekls explaining self to forest guard" [20:38]
mircea_popescu: well, the not retarded ones, anyway. the retarded ones'd just shoot their own dog or w/e. [20:38]
mircea_popescu: shinohai works! [20:38]
mod6: mircea_popescu: aha. [20:40]
* mircea_popescu knew hunt dog grower who wouldn't even sell to noobs. "how am i supposed to get a dog ?" "first get some experience" "doing what" "hunting" "how am i going to do that without a dog ?" [20:40]
mircea_popescu: well... get married i guess ?! [20:40]
mod6: lol [20:41]
mircea_popescu: "it's not fair!!!" "yeah, but at least it's safe." [20:41]
mod6: yeah, no sense in letting a good dog go to waste [20:42]
mircea_popescu: well, especially with small shot, it's a mess. just takes nine weeks to die or some unseemly shit like that. [20:42]
mircea_popescu: admittedly back then veterinarian surgeons were a lot less common. [20:43]
phf: now if only they applied same principles to dog sales as well [20:44]
mod6: ugh, yeah. i'd just put it down/shoot it if it was suffering. [20:44]
phf: *in general rather [20:44]
mircea_popescu: phf this was ah. [20:44]
mircea_popescu: you think this, go visit argentina then see. [20:44]
mircea_popescu: i think it's where dogs go to hell. [20:44]
shinohai: Nah that's Asia [20:45]
shinohai: >.< [20:45]
mircea_popescu: mebbe [20:45]
* shinohai wonders what the oriental fascination with torching dogs alive is .... [20:46]
mircea_popescu: i dunno that's oriental. [20:46]
phf: oh yeah india was pretty bad, there they don't have any use for dogs. though cats there fair even worse [20:46]
phf: on the lulzy side i can't get over american thing of keeping dogs and picking up their shit. i spent new years in upper east side, and was sitting at a small cafe one morning, watching these posh old ladies in expensive furs one after another scooping up little turds after their tiny beasts [20:50]
mod6: haha [20:50]
mircea_popescu: isn't that the weirdest shit ? good thing democracy gave 'em civil rights an' shit, i'd take scooping dogshit over subsistence hunting any day!!1 [20:51]
mircea_popescu: in other zekworld, anyone saw the incrrreedibly neet-stupid film i saw today ? [20:51]
phf: this is the first time i actually got to witness the entirety of the ritual (accidentally the cafe was in front of patch of grass, and i guess it was sufficiently cold that old ladies didn't want to go all the way to the park) [20:51]
mircea_popescu: taking bets / proposals / suggestions of wtf it is till i publish. [20:51]
deedbot: << Trilema - Lay the Favorite [22:06]
mircea_popescu: "Manipulations of public opinions are understandably also among the general activities of the surveillance agencies [9], which at least partly explains the wild and bizarre discussion styles sometimes seen in certain Usenet groups and Internet forums." [22:24]
mircea_popescu: :) [22:24]
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone wanna do a steganobot ? here's the spec : upon receiving a link to a pastebin, the bot picks a random tumblr image, doctors it, and links it. [22:29]
mircea_popescu: (on its own tumblr page, why the hell not) [22:29]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as wat, performanceart? [22:33]
mircea_popescu: as tumblr. [22:33]
asciilifeform: ( for what is open air stego good ? ) [22:33]
mircea_popescu: what exactly do you propose is weakned here ? [22:34]
mircea_popescu: someone's gonna keep a list of all the tumblr images ? [22:34]
asciilifeform: which bit-stuffing scheme ? [22:34]
mircea_popescu: at the choice of the implementer [22:35]
asciilifeform: it hides nuffin if known. there exists no 'asymmetric stego'. [22:35]
mircea_popescu: what do you mean, specifically ? [22:35]
asciilifeform: i couldve sworn we had the thread [22:36]
mircea_popescu: link ? [22:36]
* asciilifeform digs.. [22:36]
mircea_popescu: or restatement, or anything. [22:36]
asciilifeform: !#s stego [22:36]
a111: 57 results for "stego", [22:36]
asciilifeform: << the bare fact. but pretty sure we did a detailed one [22:37]
a111: Logged on 2015-12-31 21:59 ascii_rear: problem with all stego is that it runs exactly counter to standardization [22:37]
mircea_popescu: i sitll don't know what the objection here is. [22:38]
asciilifeform: let's rewind a little [22:39]
mircea_popescu: k [22:39]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: describe roughly what the bot would do [22:39]
mircea_popescu: 1. i say !S http://pastebin 2. bot searches for an image 3. bot embeds the pastebin in image 4. bot publishes the new image to its tumblr acct. 5. bot links image here. [22:40]
asciilifeform: this is not hard to do ( with e.g. the classical 'rewrite the low bits of r,g,b' algo ) but not clear to me what it accomplishes [22:41]
mircea_popescu: well, suppose there's a (pompously named) "adversary", which is to say some group of lamers with delusions of self-importance, like say the (pompously named) united states government. [22:42]
mircea_popescu: confronted with this bot, said group of lamers has a choice : either ignore it, or else start going around with copies of my tumbler account. [22:43]
mircea_popescu: mandatory tumbler following by nsa ? seems like a decent lulz. [22:43]
mircea_popescu: let all porn i put in the chan be preserved forever as a matter of "national security" by all teh national-whatevers, why not. [22:43]
shinohai: The filthier porn you put it in the better? [22:43]
shinohai: :D [22:43]
mircea_popescu: perhaps ? [22:43]
asciilifeform: iirc they already believe in 'evil jpeg stego everywhere' [22:43]
mircea_popescu: who even knows what's behind the nipple! [22:43]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cool, so let it be foremost-er. [22:44]
asciilifeform: and dutifuly collect the pron aha [22:44]
mircea_popescu: so what are they gonna do, store piles of usb sticks at all airports and compare everyone's laptops for evil mp porn ? [22:44]
mircea_popescu: would be pretty cool actually. [22:44]
mircea_popescu: but in practice... [22:44]
mircea_popescu: suppose "employee" wants to steal "secrets" from nsa hq. a) encrypt to rsa key b) put in tmsr tumblr bot c) carry vacation pics back and forth. problem ? [22:46]
mircea_popescu: "oh, we will look for the strings". which fucking strings ? [22:46]
mircea_popescu: "this picture contains sicritz in it" "does the lightbulb contain martian dataz also ?" [22:46]
asciilifeform: would be interesting if there were a way to stuff them bits that isn't screamingly obvious [22:46]
mircea_popescu: why ? [22:46]
mircea_popescu: let it be obvious. the only thing it does is it makes it more demoralizing to the would-be eve. [22:46]
asciilifeform: ( the typical low-bit thing , is readily detectable even if you have nfi re the payload ) [22:47]
mircea_popescu: i dun mandate a scheme. [22:47]
asciilifeform: ah if in that sense then - what i said earlier. performanceart. [22:47]
mircea_popescu: all social behaviour is performance art. [22:47]
shinohai: <<< Can find text in this photo? [22:51]
mircea_popescu: "do me" ? [22:52]
shinohai: lel [22:52]
mircea_popescu: human society ~exists since the dawn of time as "men finding text in images of women" [22:52]
mircea_popescu: hail mary full of textual contents. [22:52]
  1. his position) was ((ever pro-unicode) (outside of a (platonic object (unicode (was about as much (as smgl was []
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