Forum logs for 31 Oct 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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asciilifeform os x << lol [00:00]
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BingoBoingo This is more interesting with the other side's context [00:03]
chetty Are they using 'wish' maps maybe? [00:04]
undata ben_vulpes: k so that linux-mingw makefile as starting point? [00:04]
undata that and unix survived. I was using the unix one [00:05]
PeterL !up scoobot [00:06]
undata bleh nvm, mingw is that gnu windows thing [00:07]
undata shouldn't that die too? [00:07]
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bounce do you have berkeleydb installed and are you using gmake? [00:08]
bounce though might not need the latter, dunno. [00:08]
undata I do; gentoo's just got it in /usr/include/db4.8 [00:09]
bounce thought you were doing an os x build [00:10]
undata bounce: neg, was not led by the patch name "chicken" to believe that that one cleaned up the project [00:11]
undata so I was deleting things [00:11]
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nubbins` ben_vulpes: where is db_cxx.h on OS X? <<< brew install berkeley-db4 [00:20]
nubbins` mine's in /usr/local/Cellar/berkeley-db4/4.8.30/include/ [00:21]
undata nubbins`: what I meant to be asking is whether gentoo was weird by putting it in /usr/include/db4.8 [00:22]
undata gentoo has this "slots" mechanism for having multiple versions of libraries [00:22]
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nubbins` beats me. i've got a debian install here, it's in /usr/include [00:23]
undata that answers that, ty [00:24]
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PeterL !up scoopbot [00:28]
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BingoBoingo Os X is the weird one [00:35]
BingoBoingo It always is [00:36]
BingoBoingo U can't measure apple color with tools, because Apple is beyond measuring with tools [00:39]
assbot Why is the new iMac 5K instead of 4K? It’s all about the video, baby | Ars Technica [00:39]
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undata asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: muchas gracias; patched and built [00:50]
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ben_vulpes holy f [00:52]
ben_vulpes client signed a no-deliverable, best effort contract with us and then made promises to their client executives. [00:52]
PeterL why would they do that? [00:54]
ben_vulpes maybe the next time i actually laugh at a scope/timeline combination in a meeting and the potential client still falls all over themselves to sign our no deliverable, best effort contract my internal warning flags should go up [00:55]
PeterL what is a "no deliverable best effort contract"? [00:56]
ben_vulpes hours only [00:56]
undata "look, your cat is likely to die during this life-saving procedure. sign here." ? [00:57]
ben_vulpes "we understand that you want these things. we will work on them in the agreed upon and prioritized order. you authorize unlimited budget in hopes that we can get it all done." [00:57]
undata ah [00:57]
PeterL so if you never get the first thing on the list done, then what happens? [00:58]
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PeterL who do I talk to to not have to !up scoopbot? [01:03]
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BingoBoingo PeterL: kakobrekla [01:05]
jurov !up dignork [01:07]
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BingoBoingo Oh, there's a coup in Burkina Faso [01:07]
jurov dignork: you second message got discarded [01:07]
jurov *your [01:07]
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jurov not able to debug it right now (imbibed stuff) [01:09]
jurov will let you know lateer what was he problem [01:09]
jurov ;;gettrust assbot dignork [01:09]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user dignork: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Fri Oct 18 12:20:18 2013 [01:09]
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xanthyos hi [01:13]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Thank you for pointing me to the Folksom book. The practice drills are the best. [01:13]
BingoBoingo !up The20YearIRCloud [01:13]
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The20YearIRCloud Hi? [01:14]
BingoBoingo Hi [01:14]
The20YearIRCloud On cell, just got on to check messages. You need anything? [01:15]
BingoBoingo No, just saw you pop in. [01:16]
BingoBoingo !up twistedether [01:16]
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BingoBoingo !up buytoshi [01:19]
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BingoBoingo !up yoloshill [01:22]
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BingoBoingo Journalism problems [01:25]
BingoBoingo [01:25]
assbot The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept [01:25]
undata "What they found instead was a confounding array of rules, structures, and systems imposed by Omidyar and other First Look managers on matters both trivial—which computer program to use to internally communicate, mandatory regular company-wide meetings, mandated use of a “responsibility assignment matrix” called a “RASCI,” popular in business-school circles for managing projects—as well as [01:28]
undata more substantive issues." << bunch of crying [01:28]
jurov << i'd like to have turdatron ready for the anniversary, but it's unlikely [01:29]
assbot Gmane -- Bitcoin P2P e cash paper [01:29]
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BingoBoingo See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit. [01:30]
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undata BingoBoingo: articles like this are hard; they're trying to integrate two sides of a debate, where likely neither party is being fair [01:31]
undata as for corporate organization, *some* mechanism for order is needed [01:31]
undata how else are you supposed to coordinate? [01:31]
BingoBoingo undata: Well, key part of getting to why it wants to be read one way is evaluating... What platform it lives on. [01:32]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell PeterL first, second, third, umpteenth will get done. arbitrary items from bottom of list by time not communicated to dev team? [01:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:33]
undata BingoBoingo: yes of course [01:34]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wherever you're going, check for cpp gurlz. << none! [01:49]
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mircea_popescu kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process. << srsly, how do you keep this dry ? [01:50]
mircea_popescu 1 minute kakonizing > 1 hour martinizing [01:50]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo:!states << It's like a map of #b-a Usians << i thought everyone was from portland and atlanta. [01:52]
assbot Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast [01:52]
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BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: No, I'm in one of the green ones in the middle [01:53]
BingoBoingo At least I thought I was. [01:53]
mircea_popescu shit traffic dropped yest [01:54]
mircea_popescu gotta fire someone. [01:54]
BingoBoingo What? Yesterday was up. [01:54]
mircea_popescu well yesterday we shoulda hired someone. [01:55]
bounce buncha slackers [01:55]
mircea_popescu i wonder how would a site worked on that principle go. "ever day traffic is up, hire someone ; every day traffic is down, fire someone" [01:55]
mircea_popescu sorta like ford only faster. [01:55]
mircea_popescu undata: mircea_popescu: ^ << nothing was said publicly on this topic. [01:55]
BingoBoingo I think that's how you make an Edsel [01:55]
mircea_popescu undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time <<< what are you, new ? [01:56]
BingoBoingo Apparently ben fox has a neighbor [01:57]
mircea_popescu undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects <<< there is. you're watching it. just because leadership is not in your face doesn't necessarily mean leadership is absent and it's your time to shine. it may also mean leadership is extremely good at what it does. [01:57]
mircea_popescu who's ben fox ? [01:58]
BingoBoingo Vulpes [01:58]
mircea_popescu oh oh wow missed that one. [01:58]
mircea_popescu maybe it's the hottie gf of his wife ? [01:58]
BingoBoingo I thought this is why alf patch series was named chicken [01:59]
mircea_popescu lol! [01:59]
mircea_popescu dude incredible how much subtext i miss. and i do read the logs! [01:59]
BingoBoingo I know [02:00]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i don't remember, is edsel a car or a bad cheesecake brand ? [02:01]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Twas a Ford spinoff, focused on "affordable" cars [02:01]
mircea_popescu my facetious question ;/ [02:01]
mircea_popescu hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. [02:02]
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* bounce likes an absence of smoking and ashtrays better [02:02]
mircea_popescu you actually mind smoke ? [02:02]
BingoBoingo hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. << Wait this thing I've been doing forever is unusual? I always wash the ashtrays at least weekly [02:03]
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mircea_popescu *: BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype << my hope is that in the 2020s. but i've been off before by an xmas or two. [02:03]
BingoBoingo Prolly best to talk about these things in terms of reward halvings rather than xmas's. [02:04]
bounce once had a job contract that forbade me from minding smoke. but at home I very much prefer no smoking at all. [02:04]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo a couple, hopefully not a dozen. [02:04]
BingoBoingo AH [02:04]
mircea_popescu bounce i don't care either way. maybe i;m the only person left i guess. [02:04]
BingoBoingo bounce: How do you become functional in the morning without coffee and cigarettes? Gotta mix your stims. [02:05]
mircea_popescu the us "debate", an engine wasting time and paper while going from unpolarized to polarized. [02:05]
bounce how? just like erryday [02:05]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo he has a point there, this "need coffee to wake up" thing is nonsense. i know this experimentally. [02:06]
BingoBoingo What, you just carry your hangovers until they fade away on their own? [02:06]
mircea_popescu i never drink again anything that gives me a hangover. [02:06]
mircea_popescu emergency acute cure is "moare de varza" however. [02:07]
mircea_popescu ;;google "moare de varza" [02:07]
gribble Zeama de varza: ; Varza murata | Gradina visata: ; Reteta Varza Calita - Traditional romanian cabbage stew - YouTube: [02:07]
mircea_popescu basically kimchi juice. [02:07]
BingoBoingo Ah. [02:08]
bounce rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol [02:08]
BingoBoingo rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol << What's the point of drinking if you un-drunk yourself so soon? [02:08]
mircea_popescu "do you wanna be able to get it out or do you wanna not be able to get it out ?" [02:09]
BingoBoingo What else is practice for? Some people pull trucks with their teeth. Some people practice other feats of physical performance. [02:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: me - i don't want jsonism in my book. << anything actually solidified in your head as to what you actually want ? sigs, really ? [02:11]
bounce printable text that can nonetheless be verified. that'd be interesting. [02:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: but now i don't see this thing as going anywhere << what, srlsy ? [02:12]
* bounce would add 2d barcodes (QR or something) for the sigantures [02:13]
mats_cd03 someone once told me life is too short to avoid hangovers [02:13]
mircea_popescu it's going, it's going, don't blame the relative fixed position of mountains on the ass derping in the road. [02:13]
bounce s/gan/gna/ [02:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's going << i did specify hoping that i was wrong about this. [02:13]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: classic russian fatalism <<< aaaaaaaahahaha, how do you know this ? [02:13]
mircea_popescu and was her name katja or natasha ? [02:14]
mircea_popescu tanya... [02:14]
asciilifeform !s sword hero [02:14]
assbot 3 results for 'sword hero' : [02:14]
undata mircea_popescu: I think you missed the point of my comment on open source, which was in response to "how will we ever finish the deturdification" [02:14]
mircea_popescu hmm, anyone taking bets on the name of the chick that informed mr fox as to the intricacies of the russian soul ? [02:14]
asciilifeform chicken << comes from recipe, attributed to the old gypsies: 'first, steal the chicken.' [02:14]
mircea_popescu undata that's possible. [02:14]
undata by assigning tasks and chipping away, that's how, and by brutally criticizing contributions [02:14]
undata I get offended to my core when someone says "can't be done, lets give up" [02:14]
mircea_popescu undata then again, mayhap you missed my point. [02:15]
undata and I think I misintepreted people when hearing that [02:15]
* asciilifeform did not say 'give up.' said: buy a man [02:15]
mircea_popescu possibly. buncha trolls here see ? [02:15]
undata asciilifeform: yep addressed [02:15]
mircea_popescu trolling for a reaction out of noobs. [02:15]
* asciilifeform specifically did not say 'buy me.' [02:16]
mircea_popescu ;/ [02:16]
mircea_popescu I WAS SAVING UP [02:16]
* asciilifeform knows of maxint folks cheaper and stronger [02:16]
asciilifeform l0lz [02:16]
mircea_popescu now lyf is devoid of ultimate significance, i will give up on lyfing! [02:16]
* asciilifeform old lyfer [02:16]
mircea_popescu topic is now knives. [02:16]
asciilifeform folsom! [02:17]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo ^ comment [02:17]
mircea_popescu and tear tatoos. [02:17]
BingoBoingo Anyone want a pdf of the Folsom book? [02:17]
* asciilifeform has one [02:17]
mircea_popescu ;;google cash folsom prison [02:17]
asciilifeform (book, not tattoo) [02:17]
gribble At Folsom Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Folsom Prison Blues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues - YouTube: [02:17]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The "drill" in the book is fun. [02:17]
asciilifeform aha. [02:17]
BingoBoingo Relaxing [02:17]
* asciilifeform dreamt, recently, that he had a knife teacher [02:17]
BingoBoingo Make dummie, savage dummy, imagine doing it better, reassemble dummie, repeat [02:18]
asciilifeform a grizzled old bugger [02:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform "how to defend yourself against the banana fiend" ? [02:18]
asciilifeform !s banana fiend [02:18]
assbot 0 results for 'banana fiend' : [02:18]
mircea_popescu ;;google monty python how to defend yourself banana fiend [02:18]
bounce .oO( is this automutilation or just autotrolling? ) [02:18]
gribble Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube: ; Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Monty Python's Flying Circus: Just the Words - Episode 4: [02:18]
* asciilifeform knows of no effective defense against banana [02:18]
mircea_popescu hah! first, you eat the banana, thus disarming him. [02:18]
undata mircea_popescu: I can take a trolling; my response was to ignore it [02:18]
mircea_popescu undata anyway, get the current code, build it and see what happens. [02:19]
mircea_popescu especially if it passes the magical block [02:19]
mircea_popescu for all we fucking know atm, bitcoin hardforked in march 2013 and nobody noticed. [02:19]
undata mircea_popescu: built and patched; will fiddle more later [02:19]
bounce can you self-defend against wookies? [02:20]
* undata hooks a drive up to begin blockchain slurp [02:20]
BingoBoingo bounce: Did you not read the first time it was linked? [02:21]
assbot KNIFE FIGHTING [02:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud << this is never going to happen on the current db (bdb) because it's a pos, and if the computer fails unexpectedly it messes up the state. [02:21]
mircea_popescu nothing to do with bitcoin, well documented bdb issue. [02:22]
* asciilifeform did say he suspected [02:22]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: can't say as i recall, the impression was formed over the course of 3 raves in quarries in the depths of oregon forests over my sixteenth summer. [02:22]
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mircea_popescu actually, it's perhaps not premature to start the subscription list of everyone's favourite db solution [02:22]
mircea_popescu this is perhaps the most important, momentuous architectura decision [02:22]
ben_vulpes lots of russians in the area. [02:22]
mircea_popescu and it needs all the weighin it can get [02:22]
ben_vulpes the gangsters live in vancouver [02:22]
asciilifeform and [02:22]
asciilifeform snapshot. [02:22]
asciilifeform for heroes. [02:23]
bounce courts tend to frown on defendants wielding fairbarn-sykes knives in session [02:23]
ben_vulpes the religious ones in salem. [02:23]
ben_vulpes 'tis odd. [02:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know this looks like fucking advanced heroes of might and magic over here. barons, lords, heroes, dragons [02:23]
mircea_popescu WE GOT IT ALL [02:23]
undata asciilifeform: that's with the two patches, or something new? [02:23]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: merging! [02:23]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i was gonna use own db. for eventual transition to raw block device. [02:23]
asciilifeform for metal port. [02:23]
asciilifeform vita brevis. [02:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform like what you mean, tape ? [02:24]
BingoBoingo bounce: But it is a historical artifact which sits on collectible display next to bed. [02:24]
asciilifeform addressable block device. [02:24]
asciilifeform as in, 'bitcoinfs.' [02:24]
mircea_popescu but anyway, a perfectly acceptable alternative : modular db, clearly documented bitcoin hooks, write-your-own-1klines or less api for anything. [02:24]
asciilifeform as in, it deserves to be treated as own fs. [02:24]
BingoBoingo Sheer coincidence I reached for Fairbairn Sykes and not Chris Carpenter Bobblehead [02:24]
asciilifeform with the two patches << with all of my patches so far. [02:25]
mircea_popescu there IS some significant ops advantage to not running any one stock db. [02:25]
asciilifeform there was some grumbling that i didn't post an auto-zapper that turns 0.5.3 into the hash manifest in 'chicken' [02:25]
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asciilifeform so here's my total merge. [02:25]
asciilifeform does not include bdb lock tweak suggested by mircea_popescu [02:25]
asciilifeform (who wants - can make) [02:26]
mircea_popescu that's unavoidable, otherwise thing won't pass into 2014. [02:26]
mircea_popescu on the blkchain i mean [02:26]
bounce fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic? [02:26]
asciilifeform modular db << sounds pleasurable, but this requires massive re-engineering of satoshi's turd. [02:26]
asciilifeform almost rewrite. [02:26]
mircea_popescu d'oh. [02:26]
mircea_popescu if you think satoshi's stuff can not be refactored to the point of rewriting, you're living inside a candy globe. [02:27]
BingoBoingo bounce> fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic? << Not in case, on nightstand. Made of whatever wartime shitiron England was using. [02:27]
mircea_popescu it really is that bad, like old man beard. [02:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4883 @ 0.00080436 = 3.9277 BTC [+] [02:27]
* asciilifeform fesses up that he started a rewrite - before starting correspondence and unrelated project with mircea_popescu [02:27]
* asciilifeform in common lisp of course [02:27]
ben_vulpes pahaha. [02:28]
BingoBoingo !b 2 [02:28]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [02:28]
mircea_popescu but that's slow [02:28]
ben_vulpes b-b-b-b-bash buster! [02:28]
asciilifeform my cl often runs 1.5x or so of naive 'c' [02:28]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: just getting rid of boost is going to entail that. [02:28]
mircea_popescu anyone here know bishibosh ? [02:28]
asciilifeform because good native compiler. [02:28]
asciilifeform (sbcl) [02:28]
asciilifeform and annotations. [02:28]
ben_vulpes note that asciilifeform says "my cl". [02:28]
asciilifeform 'my' is not mine alone, is common as dirt sbcl [02:28]
mircea_popescu good lord, he wants to rewrite cl as part of rewriting bitcoin [02:28]
ben_vulpes code quality and performance is highly dependent on author, skills. [02:28]
* asciilifeform has private fork of sbcl, it has nothing to do with this [02:29]
ben_vulpes haha [02:29]
asciilifeform dance quality depends on dancer, yes, news at 11 [02:29]
* ben_vulpes is entirely unsurprised. [02:29]
mircea_popescu so the plan is, a) make new processor file as ascii art in emacs [02:29]
mircea_popescu 2... [02:29]
mircea_popescu 3) profit ? [02:29]
asciilifeform obligatory sp4mz0r1ng - << gadget runs entirely sbcl [02:29]
assbot MolBox LLC [02:29]
mircea_popescu this sounds familiar. [02:30]
asciilifeform my ancient gadget. [02:30]
asciilifeform golden toilet driver. [02:30]
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asciilifeform ~6k lines of cl. [02:30]
mats_cd03 << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle [02:30]
assbot KNIFE FIGHTING [02:30]
BingoBoingo << Let's get Qntra on /. [02:31]
assbot US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot [02:31]
asciilifeform linked gadget runs on top of pedestrian gentoo on pedestrian x86. [02:31]
BingoBoingo << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle << Seems to be the only way justifiable from a self defense standpoint [02:31]
assbot KNIFE FIGHTING [02:31]
asciilifeform - end of sp4mz0r1ng - [02:31]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03 i think that only works on floor-shy victims neh ? [02:31]
BingoBoingo But heart is a hard target [02:32]
BingoBoingo literally, ribs [02:32]
undata BingoBoingo: probably hence the 45 [02:32]
mircea_popescu thickasthieves: so he can go to forest and see if it's broken << lawl. [02:33]
mats_cd03 mircea_popescu: yeah, victim could get on their back as a defense [02:34]
mircea_popescu victim could go down, take your feet from under you, have you fall on your own knife. [02:34]
mircea_popescu (you have a lot of forward mommentum running for the 22 feet in 2 s) [02:34]
BingoBoingo undata: Well you also have to consider, anatomically that mean focusing on their left side and trying to slot in between just the right ribs, vs left side just hitting anything open and soft hoping for the abdominal aorta [02:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00080248 = 10.673 BTC [-] {2} [02:35]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: (rampant memory leakage is not 'works') << it's not rampant. more like a calender than a ruptured pipe. it... sweats memory :D [02:35]
* ben_vulpes watches lispy robot video [02:35]
* ben_vulpes misses working with robots [02:36]
asciilifeform knife << obligatory << [02:36]
assbot Нож против пистолета. Реальная эффективность клинка на к... — смотреть онлайн видео, бесплатно! [02:36]
asciilifeform 'knife against pistol. actual effectiveness of blade' [02:37]
* asciilifeform not specialist [02:37]
mircea_popescu bounce: did I get that about right? << "that bitcoin thing, aka some fiat nonsense trying to call itself bitcoin", rather than "this bitcoin thing" :) [02:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform gotta love how it's "pistolette" in russian. [02:37]
bounce plenty people falling for the ruse though [02:38]
* bounce wonders what this executive chief sellout thinks of that open letter posted by a member on their own forum [02:39]
mircea_popescu cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin << tell us your pain brothar. we're the relationship support cult, among other things. [02:39]
* BingoBoingo suspects Matonis actually despises the monster he helped nurture [02:39]
mircea_popescu bounce not his job to think. [02:40]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo he goes through phases. [02:40]
* MykelSIlver has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [02:40]
BingoBoingo Most people do, so has he had his period yet, or is he mourning starfish virginity? [02:40]
asciilifeform starfish period. [02:41]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo originally he was all excited about derpfoundation. back then we were on speaking terms, so i told him he's nuts. he thought i was nuts. then he got all unexcited, and left. then he came back. now he's leaving. [02:42]
* mircea_popescu shrugs. [02:42]
BingoBoingo Seems to happen to a lot of the 2011-2012 Americans [02:42]
mircea_popescu you might remember all the huge tada in 2013 re putting a bunch of derps on the "press list" and excluding matonis, on the grounds that the derps were well versed in things from wikipedia practice or something [02:42]
BingoBoingo I remember [02:43]
ben_vulpes what the ever loving fuck is a press list and--nevermind. [02:43]
asciilifeform a press list... [02:44]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you got it. about the time i threw my hands up too. [02:44]
asciilifeform ... is a list of people who are to be pressed to death. [02:44]
asciilifeform !s kill file [02:44]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Twas the list the Foundation herded Journos towards [02:44]
assbot 1 results for 'kill file' : [02:44]
asciilifeform peine forte et dure. [02:44]
mircea_popescu PeterL: why would they do that? <<< because they're business school majors, and this means social studies, and this means they don't understand that words carry meaning. [02:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00080436 = 3.7001 BTC [+] [02:46]
ben_vulpes ahhhh holy shit you guys i just bought a flipphone [02:47]
ben_vulpes prepaid minutes [02:47]
ben_vulpes it's got t9 [02:47]
ben_vulpes I STILL GOT IT BABY [02:47]
ben_vulpes hammering out texts without even looking at the keypad [02:47]
asciilifeform how is this remarkable ? [02:47]
mircea_popescu assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept <<< what they don't want to say is teh real scoop - "people heard about the qntra model and it killed anyone's will to life i nany competing project." [02:47]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Who here prefers other phones? [02:48]
mircea_popescu me. [02:48]
mircea_popescu samsung, too cheap to even justify the paint to put a model number on it. [02:48]
bounce nokia 6310. needs new battery. [02:49]
BingoBoingo Seriously wireless cheapass cellphone, because what else is it for? [02:49]
ben_vulpes guys quit trollin. [02:49]
ben_vulpes i run an ios shop. [02:49]
ben_vulpes android too these days. [02:49]
bounce no seriously. had an e52 but it sucked so much I went back. [02:49]
mircea_popescu ;;google samsung gt ? [02:49]
gribble GT-P3110 (GT-P3110TSEBTU) | Support | SAMSUNG UK: ; GT-E1190 | SAMSUNG UAE: ; Galaxy S Duos 2 (GT-S7582ZKAMID) | Support | SAMSUNG Levant: [02:49]
asciilifeform << best phone [02:49]
ben_vulpes it's got bluetooth lol [02:50]
ben_vulpes dafuq am i going to do with bt [02:50]
* BingoBoingo needs to get a Western Electric for the return of dialup days [02:50]
jurov [02:50]
mircea_popescu << that [02:51]
assbot samsung gt-e1205q - Google Search [02:51]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes> dafuq am i going to do with bt pop the chip out? [02:51]
jurov ^ sadly, never went into rpoduction [02:51]
ben_vulpes lg440g [02:51]
ben_vulpes that looks downright vaginal jurov [02:51]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo lives in town with intact copper ? [02:51]
* asciilifeform doesn't [02:52]
* undata ( has left #bitcoin-assets [02:52]
kakobrekla << best phone < fixed : [02:52]
* undata ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [02:52]
mircea_popescu it does look like pussy, jurov's phone... [02:52]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: yours ? [02:52]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Indeed. Used to be GTE, then Verizon, now Frontier or muni fiber [02:52]
kakobrekla there prolly one or two laying somewhere [02:52]
kakobrekla theres* [02:53]
asciilifeform not bakelite - not phone. [02:53]
* assbot gives voice to undata [02:53]
mircea_popescu [02:53]
assbot Kim Kardashian turns tech guru as she speaks at Recode conference | Daily Mail Online [02:53]
asciilifeform bt is actually useful in that, with a certain gizmo, lets you use 'real' phone [02:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00080115 = 1.0415 BTC [-] [02:54]
asciilifeform like the soviet one [02:54]
bounce the samsung GT-E1107 is kinda cute except that the solar panel feature doesn't actually work very much at all. [02:54]
bounce also shittier sound quality than 6310. better battery life though, since newer. [02:54]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Best video [02:54]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: [02:54]
assbot BREAKING NEWS: Suspected cop-killer Eric Frein FOUND after leading cops on seven-week manhunt | Daily Mail Online [02:54]
bounce seven weeks. does that resolve any bets? [02:54]
mircea_popescu hm. [02:55]
kakobrekla asciilifeform that phone is quite famous. like model m for keyboards i hear. was designed by some slovenian dude. [02:55]
asciilifeform aha [02:56]
asciilifeform forgot, who [02:56]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Tube 5 is most important tube [02:56]
kakobrekla >It has been over 30 years since the distinguished Slovenian designer Davorin Savnik designed an Electronic Telephone Apparatus (ETA) 85 for Iskra. Beside the fact that it won numerous awards for design and that you can still see the phone being used today, the design got stolen and was a big hit in USA. [02:56]
mircea_popescu o.O [02:56]
mircea_popescu pretty cool [02:57]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit. <<< really, it's just a lot more inconsistent. meaning the scary stories are TRUELY scary. [02:57]
mircea_popescu pretty much the only thing us management has going for it generally is consistency anyway. [02:58]
BingoBoingo Which is broken when it comes to punishment [02:58]
mircea_popescu consistency has its own sort of hell, so it all depends. [02:59]
mircea_popescu ;;google jennifer aniston in that retarded film with the flares [02:59]
gribble Jennifer Aniston said 'retard' and now everyone is mad at her: ; IMDb: Video disc collection - a list by Alan Poon: ; 2011 Movie Preview - Collider: [02:59]
mats_cd03 lol [02:59]
* OX3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [03:00]
undata how many years will I be waiting for a blockchain [03:00]
asciilifeform undata: mine went for ~8 hours until croaked. [03:00]
BingoBoingo undata: We don't measure time here with years. We use halvings and blockdepth [03:00]
asciilifeform your result will depend, at the least, on bandwidth. [03:00]
undata asciilifeform: I'll keep logs [03:00]
ben_vulpes and if unpatched - 0.5.3 will wedge at some large block. [03:01]
* go1111111 (~go@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:01]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes a good look as to specifically w [03:01]
asciilifeform [03:01]
assbot Logged on 30-10-2014 18:53:30; assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450. [03:01]
mircea_popescu WHY it wedges where is already gravy for our little project here., [03:01]
ben_vulpes ah - asciilifeform which block number? [03:01]
asciilifeform ^ [03:01]
ben_vulpes ah ty [03:02]
mircea_popescu << this chick;s career is really fucking sad. [03:02]
assbot Jennifer Aniston - IMDb [03:02]
ben_vulpes my 0.5.3 is down because xcode is a resource hog [03:02]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i was gonna toss the toy os [03:02]
* asciilifeform wants no #ifdefs in book [03:02]
* asciilifeform could stomach if necessary for openbsd [03:03]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you're not serious if you don't put #ifdef book : turn page on the cover. [03:03]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: toss toss [03:03]
ben_vulpes i run litecoin (tee hee) in vm. [03:03]
mircea_popescu Terrible Operating System System ? [03:03]
* OX3 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:03]
ben_vulpes is not buildable on TOYOS [03:03]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Her career is sad because of the Sitcom curse. If one successfully does TV, the best they can hope for is to do Windows ads with Bill Gates as Seinfeld did. [03:04]
* asciilifeform has no idea who this is, but knows how gorbachev ended with 'pizza hut.' [03:04]
ben_vulpes nubbins`: needs endif on rear cover [03:04]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo yeah looks like an inverted porn career. chick turns 17 and 11 months, does 170 featurs that year, then 50 the next and then 2 a year to pay rent til 65. [03:04]
ben_vulpes now this is an oddity [03:04]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Pretty much how it goes. [03:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform she's the sorta-fuckable cali blonde that tits-and-assgelina jolie massacred to get the mimbo at the time [03:05]
BingoBoingo On the plus side though B movies have never been this profitable ever in history thanks to netflix [03:05]
mircea_popescu i forget who his name is. played flock of seagulls in true romance [03:05]
* asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter [03:05]
BingoBoingo Ben Affleck, next Batman [03:05]
ben_vulpes 252448 is 243.23046875 KB according to [03:06]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter << Titless IRL Laura Croft [03:06]
ben_vulpes and 252450 243.0712890625 KB ibid [03:06]
asciilifeform incidentally, turd exhausts ram even if left to suffer in its attempt to fetch blocks [03:06]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform basically. [03:06]
* ben_vulpes is desperate to see logs from that block, but must run own self. [03:07]
* asciilifeform deliberately did not yet post debug.log, to encourage folks to run on their own [03:07]
ben_vulpes oh i can tell [03:07]
ben_vulpes dickhead [03:07]
asciilifeform ehe. [03:07]
ben_vulpes t9 is a lost technology like lisp. [03:08]
* asciilifeform shoves crate of phones with t9 [03:08]
asciilifeform some 'lost.' [03:08]
BingoBoingo lulz [03:08]
assbot Say Something Nice About systemd - Slashdot [03:08]
ben_vulpes kiddo to my right laughed at me when i started texting lady v - "how are you even going to -- whoaaaaa." [03:08]
asciilifeform somebody wake up diametric [03:09]
asciilifeform he likes systemd i think [03:09]
BingoBoingo Prolly Harry Poettering himself [03:09]
mircea_popescu he's not gonna pull a pankkake on us over it is he ? [03:09]
asciilifeform nah i think it enables laziness somehow [03:09]
mircea_popescu somehow ? how about "can't read the system logs no more!" [03:09]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [03:09]
nubbins` [03:09]
BingoBoingo !b 1 [03:10]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [03:10]
asciilifeform he has something grunted together that works almost like real computer [03:10]
ben_vulpes nubbins`: what the fuck. [03:10]
nubbins` hahahah [03:10]
asciilifeform no idea how, when he wakes up perhaps will say [03:10]
nubbins` there are larger blocks than 252448 before it [03:10]
nubbins` sec [03:10]
mircea_popescu nubbins` which one is obama ? [03:11]
mircea_popescu i give up ? [03:11]
asciilifeform i suspect, though cannot say for certain, that there is nothing magic about 252448 [03:11]
nubbins` [03:11]
assbot Bitcoin Block #252445 [03:11]
asciilifeform and that db caught obola at some point because ram exhausted [03:11]
nubbins` ^ 252445, >340kb [03:11]
asciilifeform and never recovered [03:11]
nubbins` yeah i've suffered a couple chokes here but seems to be still downloading blocks [03:12]
nubbins` currently at 155369 [03:12]
* OX3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [03:12]
mircea_popescu well the b onus of leaking software is that it's guaranteed to act impredictably at least some of the time [03:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: also remember that there is no deterministic test of bitcoind, nor can there be [03:12]
* OX3_ ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [03:12]
asciilifeform except, possibly, an elaborate network sim [03:12]
asciilifeform this has been done [03:12]
ben_vulpes this is actually a thing that i am working on. [03:13]
asciilifeform when i was dabbling in '07 with my not-bitcoin-that-shall-not-be-spoken-of - i used one. [03:13]
mircea_popescu of the whole thing ? no. of parts of the whole thing ? [03:13]
asciilifeform parts - yes. [03:13]
mircea_popescu this'd seem a part. [03:13]
mircea_popescu ianap [03:13]
ben_vulpes not being cpp competent, a useful thing for me to do is write a bash btc harness that points bitcoinds at each other for mining, tx validation, broadcast, etc. [03:13]
* assbot gives voice to Luke-Jr [03:14]
ben_vulpes harkens back to my work with robots at one point. [03:14]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: this will not test behaviour with ill-behaved nodes. [03:14]
Luke-Jr kakobrekla: do I need to ban you from the wiki, or will you respect alphabetical order on the Gambling list from now on? [03:14]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller listen, you ever got that cookieshop thing off the ground ? actually deliering ? [03:14]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: this *can* test behavior with ill-behaved nodes. [03:15]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: yes. but you have to create the ill-behaved nodes. [03:15]
ben_vulpes what, am i to expect my test harness to sprout warts spontaneously? [03:15]
asciilifeform have to simulate various classes of evil node [03:15]
ben_vulpes i know that i'm a barbarian but i'm more of a Sven than a Hulk. [03:15]
asciilifeform and hope you've imagined all possible universes. [03:16]
ben_vulpes clearly impossible. [03:16]
asciilifeform or - realize that testing doesn't actually work. [03:16]
ben_vulpes what is "work" [03:16]
ben_vulpes testing answers specific questions. [03:16]
asciilifeform aha. [03:16]
BingoBoingo Luke-Jr: People still use wiki? [03:16]
ben_vulpes in the notion of testing with which I am familiar at least. [03:16]
ben_vulpes what these software cultists do -- has no bearing. [03:17]
ben_vulpes test, collect data, cogitate. [03:17]
ben_vulpes repeat. [03:17]
* OX3_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [03:17]
ben_vulpes this is an arduous process. [03:17]
ben_vulpes as your robot attests to. [03:17]
nubbins` there's a wiki? [03:17]
undata there's something beautiful about downloading the blockchain [03:17]
mircea_popescu will kako's trolling wonders never cease ? [03:17]
nubbins` undata o.O [03:18]
undata sitting back while history replays at high speed [03:18]
asciilifeform aha. [03:18]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: The thing Gox turned over to Thermos [03:18]
nubbins` y'know, i've got a newspaper for sale... [03:18]
ben_vulpes > 36983pankkake13luke-jr2014-10-20 18:03:571Technically competent [03:18]
nubbins` BingoBoingo, i kid ;/ [03:18]
asciilifeform i had it scroll to terminal for a spell [03:18]
asciilifeform and thought various thoughts. [03:18]
kakobrekla Luke-Jr ah didnt know it was alphabetical. i thought dicks come first. [03:18]
asciilifeform 'aha, block xxxxx, this is when i tried mining on fpga' [03:18]
asciilifeform etc [03:18]
kakobrekla Luke-Jr will respect you authoritah on the wiki. [03:18]
BingoBoingo !n 3 [03:18]
undata nubbins`: a global permanent record of anything you like; your newspaper can suck it. [03:19]
* Diablo-D3 has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) [03:19]
asciilifeform 'this here's the block where i stuffed $redacted' [03:19]
ben_vulpes undata: tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log [03:19]
undata ben_vulpes: am! [03:19]
asciilifeform 'and this here's where $alsoredacted lives' [03:19]
BingoBoingo kakobrekla: Sounds like you need a domain redirecting to BitBet such as [03:20]
kakobrekla lets when [03:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so you're the guy that put child pronz in the block ? [03:20]
asciilifeform better [03:21]
mircea_popescu what could be better. [03:21]
mircea_popescu bureaucrat pronz ? [03:21]
asciilifeform 'the secret of being a bore is to tell all' [03:22]
nubbins` insurance.aes [03:22]
BingoBoingo !b 5 [03:22]
assbot Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [03:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00080104 = 4.0453 BTC [-] [03:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ? [03:24]
mircea_popescu hey, good predictive power in your semantic structure. [03:24]
* asciilifeform not specialist [03:24]
mircea_popescu the secret to being a store is to keep all... [03:25]
asciilifeform blame voltaire, he, afaik, coughed that one up [03:25]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ? << No, secret to being a whore is to be firm on prices. [03:25]
mircea_popescu the secret to being a core is to leak all... [03:25]
undata the secret to being a whore is to fuck all [03:25]
nubbins` leak all the memories [03:25]
BingoBoingo Well, yeah, core memory is super tempestable [03:25]
asciilifeform the secret of being a war... [03:26]
mircea_popescu r-r-r-r-rhymebreaker! [03:26]
asciilifeform my grandfather worked on a hydraulic computer. memory literally leaked. [03:26]
mircea_popescu not through software fault [03:26]
asciilifeform hard to be certain [03:27]
BingoBoingo Hardware breaks first! [03:27]
mircea_popescu lol that hard :D [03:27]
undata asciilifeform: ? [03:27]
assbot The Russian Computer That Ran On Water [03:27]
asciilifeform no. smaller thing, his own [03:27]
asciilifeform not historically notable, afaik. [03:27]
mircea_popescu "also ran on beer" [03:27]
asciilifeform [03:29]
nubbins` i made cheese beer bread today [03:29]
nubbins` so yum [03:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00080197 = 8.6212 BTC [+] {2} [03:33]
undata mircea_popescu: regarding db, would you loathe sqlite? [03:35]
undata those can get pretty massive and still do well [03:35]
asciilifeform undata: i'd like zero library deps. [03:35]
mircea_popescu undata i wouldn't loathe anything [03:36]
mircea_popescu it's all the other haters one gotta worry about [03:36]
BingoBoingo Bitcoin's not going anywhere, if you are going to introduce a dependency for storage why not just leap to ZFS? [03:36]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo asciilifeform was talking of a whole fs. [03:36]
Luke-Jr kakobrekla: thanks [03:36]
asciilifeform result should be ROMable on a 486. [03:36]
undata well, you'll otherwise reinvent acid and whatnot yourself [03:36]
undata which is fine [03:36]
undata but that should be the goal then [03:36]
Luke-Jr kakobrekla: anything we can do to make it clearer? there should have been a comment at the top explaining [03:37]
mircea_popescu now the advantage to an actual fs is that since you know your blocks wil be 1mb tops, you can actually make the sectors 1mb size. [03:37]
asciilifeform ^ [03:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu has his thinking helmet on! [03:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually i just had my finger in the right cunt. [03:37]
nubbins` right on [03:37]
kakobrekla Luke-Jr maybe its just common sense, that i lack of. [03:37]
asciilifeform also wurks. [03:37]
Luke-Jr kakobrekla: heh, well, the whole reason for that policy was because people kept fighting over order/positioning on that page XD [03:38]
mircea_popescu tho honestly i am not convinced a fs is less work than a byodb hook [03:38]
mircea_popescu maybe much sexier, i dunno. [03:38]
asciilifeform it isn't less. [03:38]
nubbins` running stock 0.5.3 is less work ;) [03:38]
asciilifeform yes, because doesn't work. [03:38]
BingoBoingo FFS can take you up to 2 TB [03:38]
kakobrekla Luke-Jr let us fight. we will see who the better coder is. [03:38]
mircea_popescu Luke-Jr from experince, nothing short of a site random display will solv that problem [03:39]
kakobrekla anyway, brb [03:39]
Luke-Jr kakobrekla: O.o [03:39]
mircea_popescu people will start registering 1something domains link them to their main site [03:39]
Luke-Jr mircea_popescu: well, that's why we go based on the main site name, not the domain [03:39]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu let them do 1. ill start with 0. [03:40]
mircea_popescu i guess. [03:40]
kakobrekla so we rename bitbet to 0bet [03:40]
nubbins` A-1 Betting Inc. [03:40]
Luke-Jr randomising might work if that gets abused, but that takes effort [03:40]
mircea_popescu [03:40]
* dnaleor has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [03:40]
nubbins` heh [03:40]
mircea_popescu Luke-Jr i'd think randomising entries less effort than policing "main domain name" rules, but anyway, no idea wtf this even is so. [03:41]
* asciilifeform read that useless piece re: herr omidyar, kept waiting for it to mention his specialty as no. 1 hoarder and withholder of snowden turd. then saw that article is by 'greenwald, poitras, ...' [03:41]
mircea_popescu dun mind me. [03:41]
nubbins` [03:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform myeah. encouraging how clearly you can see right through their bs. [03:41]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: If it were only a management dispute why would I link it? [03:41]
mircea_popescu apparently one doesn't need a politix degree. [03:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a retarded 5yo can see clean through it [03:42]
Luke-Jr mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p [03:42]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's my expectation of 5yos, yes, but recently they make broken ones or something. [03:42]
kakobrekla Luke-Jr good call! :) [03:42]
asciilifeform modern world amazes with its ability to manufacture broken. [03:42]
asciilifeform !s flashlight crash [03:42]
assbot 1 results for 'flashlight crash' : [03:42]
Luke-Jr looks useful [03:42]
assbot Extension:Random - MediaWiki [03:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00079632 = 2.9464 BTC [-] {2} [03:42]
undata asciilifeform: how else were they supposed to hotfix it later? [03:43]
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asciilifeform lol [03:44]
undata asciilifeform: though there's the risk of a bad flash [03:44]
asciilifeform undata: afaik it was a mask rom. [03:44]
undata then my joke is dead to me [03:45]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: crab bus << reminds me of my consulting partner's tale of the rat temple in his home town [03:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform of course you realise with 1mb sectors the current size of the charade would be 30+ gb. [03:47]
mircea_popescu ie, 3x what it is. [03:47]
asciilifeform they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit [03:47]
mircea_popescu heh. [03:47]
mircea_popescu << i forgot to link this [03:47]
assbot For Capitalism! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [03:47]
asciilifeform 30+gb << 40gB was the turd upon croaking [03:47]
asciilifeform that is, with 2/3 finished blockchain [03:47]
BingoBoingo they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit << What, no warfarin in the milk? [03:47]
asciilifeform nein [03:47]
asciilifeform rats - holy. [03:48]
BingoBoingo But dumber than mice [03:48]
BingoBoingo Though more organized [03:48]
asciilifeform [03:48]
asciilifeform [03:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i missed a zero baby. [03:49]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 327763 / 1024 [03:49]
gribble 320.081054688 [03:49]
mircea_popescu 320 gb [03:49]
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asciilifeform disk longa, vita brevis [03:49]
mircea_popescu it'll be a tough sell. [03:49]
asciilifeform can compress below fs layer, realize [03:49]
asciilifeform a la 'doublespace.' [03:49]
asciilifeform if only basic rll [03:50]
asciilifeform (run length encode) [03:50]
asciilifeform no need to ever store a mb of zero [03:50]
mircea_popescu if anyone is a hdd afficionado, do some math as to what gain in speed justifies a 5x gain in file size ? at current and/or historical price per speed and price per size. [03:50]
asciilifeform again, compress. [03:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform if you compress below fs layer then the fixed blocks thing is kinda a meh idea. [03:51]
asciilifeform sufficiently smart fs will compact runs. [03:51]
mircea_popescu do you even have a candidate for pillaging in mind or wtf fs is even trustworthy [03:52]
asciilifeform when i said fs, [03:52]
asciilifeform meant - fs crafted for the occasion. [03:52]
mircea_popescu what, all new code ? [03:52]
mircea_popescu gtfo. [03:52]
asciilifeform aha. [03:52]
BingoBoingo !b 3 [03:52]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [03:52]
mircea_popescu rewriting bitcoin is one thing. writing a new fs is a fucking dumb idea. [03:52]
asciilifeform blockchain gets a block device. [03:53]
BingoBoingo What's wrong with FFS? ... In one of its hundreds of incarnations... [03:53]
mircea_popescu there is no way you can do anything novel and useful in terms of fs. [03:53]
mircea_popescu either one or the other. not both. [03:53]
asciilifeform existing fs are built to be 'all things to all people' [03:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00079592 = 4.1388 BTC [-] [03:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so what, only support s.nsa produced hard drives ? [03:54]
asciilifeform nein [03:54]
asciilifeform just, normal lba drives. [03:54]
mircea_popescu so who are you going to steal the hardware drivers from [03:54]
asciilifeform what drivers. [03:54]
mircea_popescu maybe i don't iunderstand what you mean by "make own fs" and "bare metal" in that order. [03:55]
asciilifeform if we're talking about a metal port, i'd use my pio hdd driver (about 1k asm) [03:55]
asciilifeform works on every machine i own. [03:55]
asciilifeform a purist - can use x86 bios 'int 13' block routine. (slower) [03:55]
asciilifeform if we're talking about a humbler turd that runs on unix, it'd take /dev/sdwhateverthefuck' [03:56]
asciilifeform and crap directly therein. [03:56]
* mircea_popescu is in over his head in this discussion. [03:56]
asciilifeform ('metal port' being a hypothetical 'bitcoind' that boots up as x86 os) [03:57]
asciilifeform ('pio' - programmed i/o, mode of using standard 'ata' without dma. used by simple schoolboy operating systems for x86) [03:57]
asciilifeform ('int 13' - traditional x86 bios interrupt function which exists to this day, used by most os boot loaders to fetch kernel from disk) [03:58]
asciilifeform controller-agnostic. [03:58]
-NickServ- mircea_popescu1!~Mircea@ has just authenticated as you (mircea_popescu) [03:59]
-NickServ- mircea_popescu1!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu has released your nickname. [03:59]
* You are now known as Guest85595 [03:59]
asciilifeform /dev/sdX - raw block device present on all unix systems, represents a block device - e.g., hard disk - as a sequence of blocks of N (usually 512) bytes [03:59]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [03:59]
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* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [03:59]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [03:59]
asciilifeform on ancient boxes with parallel 'ata' - /dev/hdX [03:59]
asciilifeform on ancient boxes with parallel 'ata' - /dev/hdX [03:59]
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* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [04:00]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [04:00]
* BingoBoingo will now drop that has been seeking russian speakers to operate "PC 9000" hard drive firmaware tool since I part timed there in 2004. [04:01]
* BingoBoingo will now drop that has been seeking russian speakers to operate "PC 9000" hard drive firmaware tool since I part timed there in 2004. [04:01]
assbot About | [04:01]
assbot About | [04:01]
asciilifeform lol! [04:01]
asciilifeform lol! [04:01]
asciilifeform even now?! [04:01]
asciilifeform even now?! [04:01]
mircea_popescu jejeje [04:01]
mircea_popescu jejeje [04:01]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers [04:02]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers [04:02]
* BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka [04:03]
* BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka [04:03]
* BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd [04:03]
* BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd [04:03]
asciilifeform << int 13 [04:05]
asciilifeform << int 13 [04:05]
assbot [ASM (NASM)] int 13 - [04:05]
assbot [ASM (NASM)] int 13 - [04:05]
BingoBoingo Oh noes is down to blue [04:05]
BingoBoingo Oh noes is down to blue [04:05]
assbot US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot [04:05]
assbot US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot [04:05]
mircea_popescu is that a good thing ? [04:06]
mircea_popescu is that a good thing ? [04:06]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: remember the fella who booted linux on dead 'seagate' pcbs ? [04:06]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: remember the fella who booted linux on dead 'seagate' pcbs ? [04:06]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: afaik he did it by reversing ye olde 'pc 9000' [04:07]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: afaik he did it by reversing ye olde 'pc 9000' [04:07]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Bad thing [04:07]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Bad thing [04:07]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I do indeed [04:07]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I do indeed [04:07]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: seeking russian speakers to operate << srsly, operate, not translate ? [04:11]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: seeking russian speakers to operate << srsly, operate, not translate ? [04:11]
asciilifeform << non-obligatory, but goes with the theme [04:12]
asciilifeform << non-obligatory, but goes with the theme [04:12]
assbot Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube [04:12]
assbot Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube [04:12]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off. [04:12]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off. [04:12]
asciilifeform (theme of block devices...) [04:13]
asciilifeform (theme of block devices...) [04:13]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy [04:15]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy [04:15]
asciilifeform probably began by driving ancient hdd 'voice coils' directly with his amps... [04:15]
asciilifeform probably began by driving ancient hdd 'voice coils' directly with his amps... [04:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+] [04:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+] [04:18]
BingoBoingo Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology [04:19]
BingoBoingo Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology [04:19]
mircea_popescu << speaking of turds and all that. [04:19]
mircea_popescu << speaking of turds and all that. [04:19]
asciilifeform she must've cleaned the last throne with eyes. [04:20]
asciilifeform she must've cleaned the last throne with eyes. [04:20]
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mircea_popescu lol [04:25]
mircea_popescu 1k eyeballs right ? [04:26]
asciilifeform 1m! [04:26]
asciilifeform them. [04:26]
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nubbins` downloading the blockchain is slooooow. [04:49]
BingoBoingo nubbins`: The indexing is slower. [04:49]
nubbins` i'll bet [04:49]
nubbins` running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it? [04:50]
nubbins` i've got a paltry gb allocated now [04:50]
asciilifeform << with english translation in 'show more' box [04:51]
assbot 17 Moments of Spring - Gde-To Daleko (Somewhere Far Away) HQ - YouTube [04:51]
asciilifeform (re: 'go into forest') [04:51]
mats_cd03 mircea_popescu: i retched [04:52]
nubbins` dignork thanks, good tip [04:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00079905 = 8.1503 BTC [+] [05:02]
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nubbins` no sweat [05:04]
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assbot Testnet - Bitcoin [05:07]
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kakobrekla [05:09]
assbot Butnskala - Lisice - YouTube [05:09]
kakobrekla (relevant to ebola) [05:10]
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BingoBoingo kakobrekla: Also Futbol Americano [05:16]
BingoBoingo Going off of the concusion leap [05:17]
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mircea_popescu running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it? <<< yes, up to 16gb markedly helps [05:25]
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BingoBoingo So I'm pricing used workstations. All of the opteron based stuff in the past 6 years is pretty equivalent, yes? [05:26]
* BingoBoingo asks because this beauty? Under $300? [05:29]
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assbot Sun Ultra 40 2XDUAL Core 2 4GHz 16GB 1X250GB Quadro FX 4500 DVD 4XAVAILABLE | eBay [05:29]
BingoBoingo [05:29]
assbot Do you know the three main causes of prostatitis for teenagers - Slashdot [05:29]
BingoBoingo Holy shit!!! Who do people even buy new computers? [05:34]
assbot Precision 690 10 Pack 2 x DCX 2 66GHz 4GB 667MHz 146GB 15K 7 Pro | eBay [05:34]
kakobrekla 10 pack lol [05:35]
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BingoBoingo I know! [05:41]
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BingoBoingo I could start a university computer lab with that shit [05:41]
BingoBoingo Right after I buy/conquer a university [05:42]
mod6 the fs idea is sexy, and indeed ufs2 w/soft updates would be probably best, which is default for everything post fbsd 5 iirc. [05:43]
mats_cd03 BingoBoingo: youre tempting me to buy a workstation of my own [05:44]
mod6 but sounds like we're getting into RE-ENGINEER ALL THE THINGS if we start to not trust whatever is already out there [05:44]
* mats_cd03 browses craigslist [05:44]
BingoBoingo mats_cd03: I have wanted ECC ram for about a decade now, but never pulled the trigger on it [05:44]
mats_cd03 i was under the impression most motherboards support ECC and non-ECC [05:46]
asciilifeform mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device. [05:46]
BingoBoingo mats_cd03: From what I understand ECC is still a luxury sold to the discerning which the "cloud" is trying to handwave over [05:48]
asciilifeform mats_cd03: no [05:48]
mats_cd03 hm. [05:48]
asciilifeform ecc with amd cpu - almost impossible to obtain now. ecc on intel - on high-end 'xeon' boards. [05:49]
mod6 asciilifeform: perhaps. i worry that we're all of the sudden going to fork *bsd and make mpexos [05:49]
BingoBoingo mod6: I prefer the term Stanix [05:49]
mod6 heheh [05:49]
mod6 not bad :] [05:49]
BingoBoingo Now that people are finally reading GNU utils I imagine split will be from OpenBSD 5.X -current [05:50]
* asciilifeform innocent of ab initio unixen, other than as school homework [05:50]
* asciilifeform would like to stay that way [05:50]
BingoBoingo Well, real Unix exists... in Textbooks [05:51]
mod6 do you mean 'real' as in systemv? [05:51]
BingoBoingo mod6: Real as in... before system* [05:51]
* asciilifeform downed pilot not worm connoisseur [05:52]
BingoBoingo back when it was version* [05:52]
* asciilifeform swears by 'unix hater's handbook' [05:52]
* BingoBoingo has several coppies [05:52]
BingoBoingo My domicile was slow rolled by the local 5-0 about half an our ago so mzt misssspelt words [05:53]
* asciilifeform had to look up most of above to make any sense [05:54]
mod6 so, since we're talking about it, what would be the most idea env for such a reference implentation? a fully stripped openbsd with a custom fs & drivers? [05:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00079592 = 13.0786 BTC [-] [05:55]
* BingoBoingo really wants the disorderly conduct case to fucking end [05:55]
BingoBoingo mod6: OpenBSD on its own is prolly hostile enough to dev in [05:55]
asciilifeform mod6: custom fs doesn't require an os-level turd, just a raw block device that the process is permitted to r/w. [05:55]
mod6 s/openbsd/*bsd [05:55]
asciilifeform mod6: idea being, among other merits, that in the future shedding the os entirely will be considerably easier. [05:56]
mod6 so you wouldn't say, want to strip kern mods out or whatever? [05:56]
mod6 what about wintel eth drivers? [05:56]
asciilifeform that's a separate work [05:56]
mod6 what about like 69000 other things? [05:56]
asciilifeform what other things? [05:56]
BingoBoingo What ken mods? OpenBSD offers two kernels bsd and, if you want more fuck you [05:56]
asciilifeform the only devices a hypothetical bitcoin x86 os needs to comprehend is disk and nic [05:57]
asciilifeform disk - see example posted earlier (< 1 kb asm) [05:57]
mod6 eh..nm [05:57]
asciilifeform nic - similar. see example in 'bare metal os' (bsd license, iirc) [05:58]
* asciilifeform just wanted a fucking book [05:58]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Problem is book has wants too [05:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00079592 = 5.7306 BTC [-] [05:59]
asciilifeform 'first the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes the man' [05:59]
asciilifeform (jp?) [05:59]
BingoBoingo Indeeds [05:59]
BingoBoingo Prolly universal [06:00]
asciilifeform one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) seems to comprehend is that bitcoin is, what old timers call - 'safety critical code' [06:00]
asciilifeform as in, would you want a multithreaded os like unix on, e.g., pacemaker ? [06:01]
asciilifeform safety critical means not always death, but wors [06:01]
asciilifeform e [06:01]
BingoBoingo Actually... in cariac replacement parts, mechanical failures tend to kill first. [06:01]
asciilifeform like, your whole reich goes down [06:01]
BingoBoingo like dad's brave little plastic aortic valve [06:02]
BingoBoingo But... a *nix pacemaker still scares moar [06:03]
asciilifeform we all wear out. plastic or meat. [06:03]
asciilifeform but software - doesn't. [06:03]
BingoBoingo True [06:03]
asciilifeform it works - or not. [06:03]
BingoBoingo Code does what it is, without regard for the underlying [06:03]
kakobrekla you can skip the first option. [06:03]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> like, your whole reich goes down << wouldn't it be grand to have a spec so people can use that to build their own compliant reference implementation? [06:04]
asciilifeform mod6: you can probably download most of the info necessary to build a vintage mercedes benz. [06:04]
asciilifeform will you build ? [06:04]
asciilifeform or 'tiger' tank. [06:05]
asciilifeform butbut... the spec's right here! [06:05]
BingoBoingo !s nuclear power [06:06]
assbot 32 results for 'nuclear power' : [06:06]
mod6 im pretty sure that im not smart enough for this conversation [06:06]
BingoBoingo [06:06]
assbot Logged on 21-10-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: a datacenter that can't be diddled from a safe distance is also called 'a nuclear power' [06:06]
mod6 what I mean is, if your worried about everyone running the same code, 'safety critical code' wouldn't it be good to have some diversity of systems, and decentralized [06:07]
asciilifeform diversity of systems << idiocy [06:07]
asciilifeform idiocy we suffer from as a consequence of having microshit on our planet [06:07]
asciilifeform like a gigantic black hole that warps spacetime around it into strange shapes. [06:07]
mod6 you want to force people to use only one version of code? [06:07]
mod6 including os? [06:08]
asciilifeform who forces you to use arabic numerals? [06:08]
asciilifeform you could use, for example, chinese ones [06:08]
asciilifeform why not? [06:08]
asciilifeform mod6: << my essay on subject [06:08]
assbot Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard [06:08]
mod6 i don't think the question is why, it's how. [06:09]
asciilifeform i'd like to aim for type no. 2 here. [06:09]
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asciilifeform my point earlier was not that dr. evil should force everyone somehow to use similar $widget, but that the whole 'monoculture is bad' concept exists in the popular mind solely because of microshit. [06:10]
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mod6 do you think that all the root servers should use the same code & os? [06:10]
asciilifeform i don't much care about 'shoulds' [06:10]
mod6 well, they dont, for good reason [06:11]
asciilifeform but that, if software is written correctly, it does not matter if an entire galaxy runs same. [06:11]
asciilifeform no one gets to pwn it [06:11]
mod6 there is no correctly. [06:11]
asciilifeform because mathematically impossible. [06:11]
mod6 there is only better or best. [06:11]
kakobrekla there is only non working code atm so stfu. [06:11]
asciilifeform better or best << [06:12]
assbot Logged on 29-10-2014 04:35:44; asciilifeform: 'suppose every program can be shortened by a line, and contains a bug. therefore all programs can be reduced to one line - which does not work.' - ??? [06:12]
asciilifeform kakobrekla has it. [06:12]
asciilifeform except right now we've a few 10k of lines which do not work. [06:12]
asciilifeform room for improvement. [06:12]
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* BingoBoingo wonders if Well written bitcoind compatible turd will be larger than blockchain itself [06:14]
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asciilifeform BingoBoingo: wat ? [06:15]
asciilifeform well written == operates correctly + fits in head. [06:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10056 @ 0.00079582 = 8.0028 BTC [-] {2} [06:15]
asciilifeform not fits in head - ipso facto not well written [06:15]
asciilifeform regardless of what else it does. [06:15]
BingoBoingo I'm just thinking about the first, operates "correctly" [06:15]
asciilifeform incidentally [06:16]
asciilifeform until such is written, we will not actually know if bitcoin works. [06:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7944 @ 0.00079428 = 6.3098 BTC [-] [06:16]
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asciilifeform therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here. [06:16]
BingoBoingo Eh, all that mean is lite/dark coin is still moar fucked [06:16]
asciilifeform i can't guarantee that anyone will especially like the answer, if an answer were ever to appear. [06:17]
asciilifeform i should also point out that 'fits in head' does not mean yours and mine, necessarily. there are many different heads. [06:18]
asciilifeform back to above, the gods loving a joke, perhaps this is how we find out that p==np. [06:19]
asciilifeform but i digress. [06:19]
* asciilifeform to bed [06:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00079088 = 9.0951 BTC [-] {2} [06:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4537 @ 0.00079006 = 3.5845 BTC [-] [06:29]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [06:29]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 343.8, vol: 14300.96413830 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 342.997, vol: 8307.59393 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 342.5, vol: 56448.03593215 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 341.950176, vol: 87619.21790000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 344.29, vol: 7.57445171 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 344.595249, vol: 88.37658032 | Volume-weighted last average: 342.348557744 [06:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.0007241 = 3.3671 BTC [-] [07:12]
BingoBoingo OMG they are learning!!! [07:14]
assbot Happy Halloween! | Squirrel Carves Pumpkin - YouTube [07:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00073345 = 5.3542 BTC [+] [07:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0007354 = 2.2797 BTC [+] [07:42]
BingoBoingo !mpif [07:43]
assbot F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021818 B (Total: 477.11 B). Delta: -0.38 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-] [07:43]
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* assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol [07:50]
mircea_popescu "You misunderstand my goals. My goal with 0.5.3 is not to produce a high quality implementation of the bitcoin protocol from Satoshi’s work (people interested in such should take a dependency on software that’s actually rigorously tested like the Conformal codebase. Comparing the tests for *any* version of the Satoshi codebase with the Conformal implementation is like comparing the tests of a first-year Ruby web de [07:50]
mircea_popescu veloper using Selenium to exercise his hand-cobbled JavaScript to those of Netflix and their Chaos Gorilla), but to distill the reference implementation into something that can fit in a single human’s head and rip out braindamaged code-arson like the moronic “wallets” and their change behavior." [07:50]
mircea_popescu see, ben_vulpes is the right guy for the foundation job. clearly. [07:51]
ben_vulpes what no no don't say that [07:51]
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mircea_popescu tis true nigga. [07:52]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell pete_dushenski seems your blog ate out my coment. this is like rape. [07:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [07:52]
ben_vulpes also asciilifeform you want this to move at f1 speed [07:54]
ben_vulpes and we're working with a rusted model-t. [07:54]
ben_vulpes i appreciate your flair for the dramatic but lol chilllllll frere. [07:54]
ben_vulpes dear client [07:57]
ben_vulpes i understand that you've made commitments that your contract with us does not support. [07:58]
ben_vulpes here are your options: [07:58]
ben_vulpes a) let the contract terminate, accept our sw in its current state, shit your pants, blow your demo. [07:58]
ben_vulpes b) retain us through the demo day, and let us work with your technical team to do the best we can (all we've ever promised) to make you look good for your next big relationship. [07:58]
ben_vulpes c) retain us to do b) and also ship kickass native semantic apis on both platforms. [07:59]
ben_vulpes *shrug* [07:59]
ben_vulpes whatchagonnado. [07:59]
mircea_popescu dumb. [08:03]
mircea_popescu dear client, here is our contract and here is our previous agreement. if you would like to modify either, please forward me the required modifications and i will send you the corresponding quote. [08:04]
ben_vulpes well, contract expires monday. [08:07]
ben_vulpes client is shitting pants and needs giving a way out. [08:07]
ben_vulpes i swear half what i do is herd cats and the other half is tell clients what the fuck to do. [08:07]
mircea_popescu yours is passive-aggrrssive whiny bullshit. [08:07]
mircea_popescu i'd can you just for that. [08:07]
ben_vulpes oh well there's a "here's what you should do" section as well. [08:08]
mircea_popescu then maybe leave just that and appear all friendzoned-and-happy-about-it [08:08]
ben_vulpes hm. [08:08]
ben_vulpes next time mebbe. [08:09]
mircea_popescu in any case the part you quoted is bad voodoo, and you know that's what it is. [08:09]
ben_vulpes that's not a quote. [08:09]
ben_vulpes that's a rant. [08:09]
mircea_popescu a then nm me [08:09]
ben_vulpes hahahahahahahahaha [08:09]
ben_vulpes i mean i'm a novice for sure [08:09]
mircea_popescu how the fuck is one to know lol, you come in here with your pseudoquotes and pseudocode and etc :D [08:09]
ben_vulpes i actually want these guys to do well. they've apparently fallen into an infinite buy wall for what they do. [08:10]
mircea_popescu so then be all dumpy naive, in the worst case they end up relying on you. [08:11]
mircea_popescu in the best case they're actually managed by sane people and you get paid. [08:11]
ben_vulpes i did get a sane guy on the phone today. [08:11]
ben_vulpes that was nice. [08:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device. <<< this is actually a solid point [08:12]
ben_vulpes dev anarchy over there, i tell you. [08:12]
mircea_popescu tho you know how this shit flows, people who are sane get talked over by various locally optimizing idiots who know better [08:12]
mircea_popescu then we end up with the engine misplaced for 150 fucking years. [08:12]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p << dig the power of the wot [08:13]
ben_vulpes wot > wiki [08:13]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you're not about to blame a guy for being nice are you ? [08:13]
ben_vulpes it's culty. [08:14]
ben_vulpes not trustworthy. [08:14]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: How many customers deep does this go? [08:14]
ben_vulpes anti-wikitarian [08:14]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: someone cutting check for dev services. [08:14]
ben_vulpes checks, ideally. [08:14]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo: mod6: I prefer the term Stanix << as in "the dyslexic coder sold his soul to stanix" ? [08:14]
* The20YearIRCloud has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [08:16]
BingoBoingo Why not? [08:17]
mircea_popescu guess so huh. [08:18]
BingoBoingo I think the biggest MP endorsment of hardware b-a so far is how much less time spent at the keyboard happens now compared to timisoara [08:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) << possibly eh ? [08:20]
mircea_popescu i'm writing you down in my little black book OF INSULTS [08:20]
mircea_popescu which incidentally is not all that little. [08:21]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo wait wut ? [08:21]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Just seems in Buenos Aires you spend less time on the Keyboard than you did in Timisoara [08:22]
mircea_popescu srsly ? [08:22]
mircea_popescu well, the town is larger, fucking all the girls takes longer i guess. [08:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: butbut... the spec's right here! <<< not terribly fair. the mercedes is not made out of coffee like code is. [08:23]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: diversity of systems << idiocy << no dude. if bitcoin code all ran on the same platform that'd be pretty much the end. [08:24]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i retched << wuss [08:26]
mircea_popescu gotta get the girls dirty now and again, best thing for 'em. [08:27]
ben_vulpes rolling in mud is good for everyone. [08:27]
ben_vulpes keeps the immune system from attacking itself. [08:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here. <<< nah, we know it works. we just can't prove it to arbitrary standards yet. [08:28]
ben_vulpes oh lol you said "prove" in the context of software around asciilifeform [08:28]
mircea_popescu trust me, i know what i'm doing :D [08:29]
mircea_popescu "Selenium IDE is a Firefox plugin which records and plays back user interactions with the browser. " [08:29]
mircea_popescu fuck me sally. they got excel "macros" for firefox now ? [08:29]
ben_vulpes ... [08:30]
ben_vulpes i've only ever seen the programmable stuff. [08:30]
mircea_popescu "the user is your only true enemy." ~ che guevara [08:30]
ben_vulpes mo users [08:30]
ben_vulpes mo problems [08:30]
mircea_popescu ok well this was fun, but where is today's log ? [08:32]
ben_vulpes ah wait he's not even around [08:32]
mircea_popescu what is this piddly 800 lines you bring before me ? [08:32]
* ben_vulpes wonders if anyone's running on the 0.5.3 testnet [08:33]
BingoBoingo What hardware B-A ran out of girls already? [08:33]
mircea_popescu nah, just lube. [08:34]
BingoBoingo ;;google 5 gallon surgical lube [08:36]
gribble Surgical Instrument Lubricant | Medline Industries, Inc.: ; Surgical lubricant sterile - TheFind: ; Medical MetriLube, Learn More About MetriLube for Medical | Metrex: (1 more message) [08:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9115 @ 0.00072852 = 6.6405 BTC [-] [08:41]
ben_vulpes [08:43]
assbot Girls check out guys crotch bulge on train - YouTube [08:43]
ben_vulpes and with that, good night. [08:43]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [18:02]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [18:02]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [18:02]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [18:02]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [18:03]
-assbot- You are now voiced in #bitcoin-assets. [18:03]
mircea_popescu hallo fellow cultists [18:03]
* TomServo hails the great leader. [18:04]
* xiando is monitoring this cult [18:05]
mircea_popescu << proof that the question mark is drawn all wrong. [18:05]
mircea_popescu TomServo you know, i'm too old for the cross bullshit. [18:06]
mircea_popescu jus' sayin'. [18:06]
TomServo cross bullshit? [18:06]
mircea_popescu you know, [18:09]
mircea_popescu btw, Auction of Souls is a must see, but preferably in the uncut version. [18:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10497 @ 0.00072899 = 7.6522 BTC [+] {2} [18:15]
TomServo Well I have no crucifixion plans so, you're good. [18:16]
mircea_popescu << also pretty good, this guy's blog. [18:24]
assbot Brent is Angry: 80's Comics Explosion: BEST WORST COMIC, RUNNER-UP; SCIMIDAR! NSFW! ADULTS ONLY! [18:24]
mircea_popescu if one can read past the marauding sew he spwes. [18:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00073191 = 7.3923 BTC [+] [18:35]
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jurov asciilifeform: in the raw device as database, how do you index utxo to verify incoming transactions? [19:04]
jurov you'll still have to steal some code from bdb or do your own [19:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5704 @ 0.00073197 = 4.1752 BTC [+] [19:18]
TomServo https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/ <-- el. oh. el. FB on tor. [19:22]
jurov upon further reading... so stan wants to make everything into own OS. ic. [19:22]
kakobrekla well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind [19:25]
mats_cd03 huhuhu [19:30]
mike_c stan just wanted a book :) [19:36]
mircea_popescu [19:36]
assbot How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [19:36]
mircea_popescu well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind << some things stan wants stan gets, some other things he gets to want even harder! [19:37]
thickasthieves lol [19:37]
kakobrekla mike_c a _MECHANICAL_ book. [19:37]
thickasthieves rewrite all the things [19:37]
mircea_popescu a mechanical book wouldbe pretty cool actually [19:38]
mike_c hehe, yeah. a book that mines. [19:38]
kakobrekla you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers. [19:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00073166 = 2.9998 BTC [-] {2} [19:40]
mircea_popescu [19:41]
assbot Book of Love page 1 [19:41]
* asciilifeform somehow knew mircea_popescu would bring out -that- book [19:42]
mircea_popescu oglaf is the official cult comic. [19:43]
mircea_popescu someone should rewrite it. [19:43]
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* assbot gives voice to hanbot [19:44]
mircea_popescu (speaking of which : ) [19:44]
assbot Sex Manual [19:44]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [19:45]
adlai here's a new word for the scamtionary: "pre-enroll" [19:45]
mircea_popescu as in you've been preapproved ? [19:46]
adlai from which appears to be trying to position itself as an entry point for a new wave of... some demographic that I can't quite pinpoint [19:47]
assbot digitalX Pocket [19:47]
mircea_popescu "stupid people" ? [19:47]
adlai is this a payment processor? web wallet? "merchant portal"? whatever the fuck does that even mean? [19:47]
adlai oh well i guess i gotta pre-enroll to find out [19:47]
mircea_popescu WE ARE WORDS BECAUSE WORDS! [19:47]
adlai * Only paid upon verification of identity. [19:48]
* adlai still can't tell what the service does, other than pay you $10 for your identity [19:48]
adlai there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services [19:49]
kakobrekla you going to scam the scammer? [19:49]
kakobrekla go ahead and try. [19:49]
adlai in its logo, claims association with "digitalBTC"... wut [19:49]
kakobrekla adlai its a scam. [19:49]
adlai but i want my ten dollars! [19:50]
kakobrekla for that, you must refuse to do banana dance [19:50]
* kakobrekla did it. [19:50]
mats_cd03 "Bitcoin accepted by Paypal" [19:50]
adlai [19:50]
assbot Dance, Monkeys Dance!! - Ernest cline - YouTube [19:51]
mircea_popescu there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services << and a good thing for that, too. if there weren't no parasites praying on parasites we'd be awash in 'em [19:51]
kakobrekla !s banana dance [19:51]
assbot 1 results for 'banana dance' : [19:51]
kakobrekla see adlai ^^ [19:51]
adlai [19:51]
assbot The Siphonaptera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [19:51]
asciilifeform !s little fleas [19:52]
assbot 5 results for 'little fleas' : [19:52]
kakobrekla adlai its little fleas until you get to the turtles. [19:53]
kakobrekla or so i have been told. [19:53]
adlai up next, the long awaited sequel to Atlas Shrugged... "Turtle Dove" [19:54]
asciilifeform sequel 'atlas croaked' [19:56]
* asciilifeform always wanted to write it [19:56]
jurov you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers. << you know, even newtonian mechanics themselves are just abstraction layer [19:56]
asciilifeform ;;google atlas shrug harder [19:56]
gribble The Infamous Brad - Atlas Shrugged 2: Shrug Harder - bradhicks: ; Going Galt - RationalWiki: ; Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film - David Brin: [19:56]
asciilifeform ^ infamous tr0l0l0l [19:56]
mircea_popescu jurov yes, but they're not broken. [19:57]
mircea_popescu imagine if newtonian mechanics leaked memory. [19:57]
asciilifeform !s bedrock [19:57]
assbot 17 results for 'bedrock' : [19:57]
jurov but they are broken [19:57]
jurov must account for friction, oxidation and whatnot [19:58]
jurov second law of thermodynamics describes these leaks pretty nicely [19:59]
mircea_popescu newtonian mechanics that leaked memory would be more like, suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe [19:59]
* asciilifeform remembers some rant (or was it a dream?) where 'dark matter' is universe-sim leaking memory [19:59]
mircea_popescu NOT anything like friction. [19:59]
jurov well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else [20:00]
asciilifeform suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe << this featured in n. stephenson's mega-tale 'anathem' [20:00]
jurov instead [20:00]
mircea_popescu if you with some regularity could no longer find neither your girlfriend nor her house, [20:00]
mircea_popescu then you'd have a memory leaking situation [20:00]
jurov it does happen. how much stuff gets forgotten everty generation [20:00]
asciilifeform [20:01]
assbot Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine [20:01]
mircea_popescu here's a funny point about "supported by history", especially when one means "history as selected by me" : [20:02]
mircea_popescu as human history presently stands, the reality of such memory loss is actually supported [20:02]
mircea_popescu say, atlantis went there. [20:02]
jurov theoretical wanking aside, we're still just beings living off thermodynamical gradients - thus fundamentally something must leak [20:04]
mircea_popescu jurov yes but, a register increasing is this sort of leak. you're saying we fundamentally can't live in an immutable world. [20:04]
mircea_popescu this is true [20:04]
mircea_popescu memory leak has nothing to do with this. [20:04]
asciilifeform second law of thermo exists. but it does not follow that we are required to piss in our pants. [20:05]
asciilifeform incidentally, [20:06]
jurov ^ you'll be lucky if that stays true in 40 years [20:06]
asciilifeform [20:06]
assbot Reversible computation :: [20:06]
asciilifeform (originally r. feynman) [20:06]
adlai asciilifeform: this labyrinth inhabitant thingy seems neat [20:07]
asciilifeform adlai: based on book [20:07]
asciilifeform adlai: a riotously entertaining book, as thickasthieves might attest [20:08]
adlai you mean anathem, or the "labyrinth inhabitant" concept? [20:08]
asciilifeform 'anathem' [20:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11606 @ 0.00073145 = 8.4892 BTC [-] {2} [20:10]
kakobrekla well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else < what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new. [20:10]
* kakobrekla turns off 300rpm fans in his computah [20:10]
* kakobrekla has quit irc (ping timeout) [20:11]
asciilifeform (linked earlier) feynman did some entertaining gedankenexperimentation re: how much energy must one actually piss away in order to compute something [20:12]
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adlai "ATLAS SHRUGGED royally sucks as a novel, with cardboard characters, rivers of contrived coincidence and dialogue made of macaroni [20:13]
assbot Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film [20:13]
asciilifeform it's a perfectly serviceable women's pulp romance. [20:14]
adlai imo 'anthem' is much better, can be read in a single s(h)itting [20:14]
asciilifeform ('atlas.' once you know this, it bricks you in the face.) [20:14]
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asciilifeform pet sayeth: 'best one i ever read!' [20:15]
ben_vulpes adlai: anathem? single shitting? [20:15]
ben_vulpes thou art a fast reader indeed. [20:15]
adlai 'anathem' ≠ 'anthem' [20:15]
ben_vulpes d;oh. [20:15]
asciilifeform not confuse 'anthem' (rand) with 'anathem' (stephenson) [20:15]
ben_vulpes ! [20:15]
asciilifeform about as related as cats and sprats [20:16]
* ben_vulpes stands corrected. [20:16]
adlai [20:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00073458 = 12.0838 BTC [+] {3} [20:16]
mircea_popescu adlai it royally sucks as a "philosophy", or "economic theory", too. [20:16]
kakobrekla actually im still here, cause it works w/o the fans. [20:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah, women are actually smarter than that. [20:16]
adlai kakobrekla: ping timeouts generally take more than 40 seconds... [20:17]
kakobrekla shutup [20:17]
mircea_popescu compare random paragraphs with random paragraphs culled off sandra brown, it'll be readily apparent in half hour [20:17]
kakobrekla adlai remember who brought you here ! [20:17]
* adlai has seen [Lag: 172+] before [20:17]
asciilifeform !s sandra brown [20:17]
assbot 0 results for 'sandra brown' : [20:17]
asciilifeform ^ error. not found in universe bubble. [20:17]
mircea_popescu whatever, pick any one of the chick pulp authors [20:17]
asciilifeform еггог [20:17]
* mircea_popescu basks in the glory of being an anthropologist, and therefore politically allowed and intellectually immune to the drawbacks of rooting through the human headshit pile [20:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu must go through many gas mask filters. [20:19]
mircea_popescu if i'm quirky, it's because all those chemicals in the filters. [20:20]
adlai kakobrekla: i also remember why you brought me, but still haven't heard any feedback from you [20:20]
mircea_popescu that;d be because he cnat raed [20:20]
adlai ("the code is shit" is valid feedback atm, i'm more interested in the ideas behind it) [20:21]
adlai it's lisp, text-to-speech can render it just fine! [20:21]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform others : here's an idea, can you make the official code also be a palindrome ? [20:21]
asciilifeform which code [20:21]
mircea_popescu that way nubsy doesn't need to worry which side is up. [20:21]
asciilifeform aha [20:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know, the official bitcoin foundation official bitcoin core code. [20:22]
mircea_popescu official+^ [20:22]
mircea_popescu ;;google c++ palindromes [20:23]
gribble c++ palindrome problem - C++ Forum - ; c++ - Check if a string is palindrome - Stack Overflow: ; Palindrome in String C++ - Stack Overflow: [20:23]
kakobrekla adlai [20:23]
assbot [20:23]
asciilifeform next mircea_popescu will ask for it to be a quine. [20:23]
adlai [20:24]
adlai asciilifeform: you know what the shortest common lisp quine is? [20:24]
asciilifeform adlai: 't' [20:24]
adlai or - [20:24]
asciilifeform (kudos to diametric) - too good to be true ? [20:25]
assbot SparkFun SIM Card - 6 Months (Unlimited Data) - CEL-13186 - SparkFun Electronics [20:25]
adlai - is amazing, because CL actually has the concept of a quine programmed into it's specification [20:25]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [20:25]
asciilifeform ^ vendor claims worldwide [20:25]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [20:25]
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mircea_popescu it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain [20:26]
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mircea_popescu << this is probably the ultimate example of socialist mind rot. [20:31]
asciilifeform don't argue with shannonizer. it never gets tired. [20:31]
asciilifeform like trying to scoop out the sea with a tea cup. [20:32]
mircea_popescu so his argument goes that well, ussr is not a good example of how socialism generates wealth because it wasn't rich enough to begin with, whereas china is very rich now, so maybe it will try sociaism, notwithstanding that the path it took to get rich is the same path everyone took o get rich, specifically antisocialism. [20:32]
mircea_popescu such fatlogic. [20:32]
mircea_popescu "To broadly claim that socialism fails without examining its proper context and its successes is academically lazy, and betrays a rigidly static view of ideology. Pure and simple." [20:32]
mircea_popescu derp. [20:32]
undata mircea_popescu: but you see, once you've generated excess you have enough forever. [20:32]
mircea_popescu "to say that you will never give us free shit is ~academically~ badword and rigid!!11" [20:32]
mircea_popescu holy shit already, people, start whipping your children. [20:33]
mircea_popescu undata totally. [20:33]
asciilifeform x fails << еггог - 'fails' takes $argument [20:33]
mircea_popescu the shit they come up with you know ? "to claim that there are no solutions to X equation is RIGID!!!11" [20:33]
adlai +mircea_popescu | it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain << who says those are contradictory? [20:33]
mircea_popescu why won';t you be moar flexible!11 [20:34]
adlai any program can be a quine [20:34]
undata mircea_popescu: also socialist measures of economic growth are never lies [20:34]
adlai although the proof doesn't fit in the margin of this irc buffer [20:34]
mircea_popescu adlai its output is already specified, and the specification is incompatible with quine [20:34]
undata the chinese are on the brink of post-scarcity; you'll see [20:34]
adlai output ≠ behavior [20:34]
adlai it can dump its source code to stderr [20:34]
mircea_popescu wait, wut ?! [20:34]
mircea_popescu lol are you being flexible ? [20:35]
mircea_popescu copy of its source code ~as its only output~ [20:35]
adlai they obviously didn't have turds in mind at the time [20:36]
mircea_popescu anyway, why is teh hydra chosen to attempt turning pete of all peeps anyway ? [20:37]
mircea_popescu is he like the only b-a jew or something ? [20:37]
asciilifeform for strict quinitude - yes, only possible output [20:37]
adlai we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user [20:37]
adlai alternatively, it could modify its own code to include the blockchain [20:38]
adlai it can end with the blockchain in a comment, and then when it's outputting, it just keeps spitting out blocks [20:38]
* asciilifeform does not regard quines as particularly interesting, because they are only a real challenge in retarded programming systems [20:38]
asciilifeform quite like how rhyming is only a serious feat in badly broken human langs [20:39]
adlai what languages would you count as broken? [20:39]
asciilifeform english, for one [20:39]
mircea_popescu adlai> we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user <<< reading this sort of shit makes my head bleed [20:39]
* asciilifeform hands new gas mask canister to mircea_popescu [20:40]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: why are we speaking a broken language? what forces have caused this? [20:41]
asciilifeform qwerty. [20:41]
* adlai typos in dvorak [20:41]
thestringpuller wow prolific [20:41]
adlai mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests [20:42]
chetty mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests// whats 'the public'? Who would you protect? and from what? [20:43]
asciilifeform (not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost') [20:43]
adlai the public, from itself! [20:43]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: this is why it is mind blowing. [20:43]
chetty the public, from itself!//<<< opt out [20:44]
adlai by the people, of the people, for the people, from the people, against the people... [20:44]
asciilifeform ;;google once there was the people terror gave it birth [20:44]
gribble Poetry Lovers' Page - Rudyard Kipling: Macdonough's Song: ; Macdonough's Song. Rudyard Kipling. 1922. Verse: 1885-1918: ; Once there was The People - Terror gave it birth - The Quotations ...: [20:44]
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adlai [20:47]
assbot Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine [20:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00072948 = 5.3617 BTC [-] {2} [20:52]
undata asciilifeform: beautiful. [20:57]
mircea_popescu (not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost') << fwiw i disagree with this assesment. english is broken because it's a commercial pigdin, language without a country. the old languages of yurp are actually fine, and to this day more powerful than any synthetic syntax. [21:00]
mircea_popescu yes, lisp included. [21:00]
asciilifeform pidgin - yes [21:00]
asciilifeform [21:00]
assbot How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [21:00]
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jurov what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.<< no i meant we want to devise machines that simulate non-leaking evironment [21:02]
asciilifeform ('lisp' as properly defined is not a programming language, but merely a catalogue of avoided mistakes in the construction of a programming language. see: ) [21:03]
assbot Loper OS » The Simplest Lisp Machine [21:03]
asciilifeform 'In most (though not all) cases, all a designer must do in order to implement an unfeature is to refrain from tying the user’s hands in a particular way.' - yours truly [21:03]
mircea_popescu not a bad approach. [21:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform [21:05]
assbot How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [21:05]
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asciilifeform ^replied [21:08]
mircea_popescu discussion continues :) [21:10]
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jurov ^replied [21:18]
bounce my isn't this an interesting irc conversation [21:19]
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asciilifeform ^replied [21:19]
mircea_popescu similarly, both. [21:23]
BingoBoingo [21:23]
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assbot BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold | [21:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.00073865 = 38.4098 BTC [+] {5} [21:23]
adlai mircea_popescu: have you seen any serious science done on these topics? [21:24]
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mircea_popescu adlai which these ? [21:26]
adlai asciilifeform: who were the sinecures? [21:27]
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asciilifeform adlai: 'xxxxx studies' [21:27]
adlai mircea_popescu: the topics which are studied by the pseudosciences which you dismiss [21:27]
mircea_popescu nothing notable, no. [21:28]
mircea_popescu the entire field is essentially predicating that marx,cCarnagey, ziggler, the incredible hulk et al are actually scientists, or to be taken seriously. [21:29]
adlai i'm not even sure how you'd go about doing such research in a real scientific manner... lots of noise in the signals [21:29]
mircea_popescu not so unlike the purely usian folly of taking life advice from movie stars, "since we like this we might also pretend this is good, or right, or whatever" [21:29]
mircea_popescu primitive transference. [21:30]
mircea_popescu adlai well, wovon, eh ? [21:30]
mircea_popescu not like you HAVE TO [21:30]
BingoBoingo the incredible hulk << Actually a scientist [21:30]
adlai !ud wovon [21:30]
chetty actually some that current stuff that calls itself science wouldn't be so bad, it just needs to stop pretending it is science [21:30]
mircea_popescu adlai [21:30]
assbot The problem of claims pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [21:30]
thestringpuller ;;ud wovon [21:31]
gribble | ... Wovers Supporter. woverton · wove ya · Wovlz · Wovon · wow · W=OW · WOWA · WOWAA · wowabunga · WoWacholic · wowage ... Wovon isn't defined. [21:31]
asciilifeform the one inescapable fact about extraction of chemistry from thousand years of alchemy is that - it is done by chemists, rather than alchemists. [21:31]
mircea_popescu ^ [21:31]
asciilifeform extraction of astronomy from astrology - ditto. [21:31]
chetty but asciilifeform latest stuff is trying to put them back together [21:32]
adlai mircea_popescu: wovon << alongside silence, i'd say questions are also a valid response to ignorance [21:32]
asciilifeform i've spent most of a decade trying to extract some nugget of living matter from 'computer science' [21:33]
asciilifeform whence and whether this goes - cannot say [21:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform self-styled "regulators" love to whine pathetic about the "irresponsible risk seeking behaviours" of banks or whoever, conveniently omitting to mention that it's the disease of the system, it's what socialism necessarily breeds (through blindness), and that they themselves took some insane gambles. such as the 50 year "let's finance pseudoscience, who knows, maybe it pays off" [21:33]
chetty [21:33]
assbot What Your Birthday Says About Your Mood And Personality, According To Science [21:33]
mircea_popescu adlai the point is that nothing forces you to speak on topics on which you have nothing to say [21:33]
asciilifeform no one wakes up and thinks 'today i will finance some pseudoscience.' [21:34]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well no banker wakes up and thinks "today i will lose some money" [21:34]
asciilifeform aha. [21:34]
jurov wtf is this nonsense. "chemist" label was applied only in hidsight [21:34]
asciilifeform jurov: that was the thought here [21:34]
mircea_popescu jurov yes. in hindsight. by people rejecting wholesale a 1000 years' pile of tradition. [21:35]
jurov they did not reject it [21:35]
jurov just extracted usable bits [21:35]
jurov plus, invented a scope [21:35]
mircea_popescu the moment they stopped trying to make gold, they rejected the search for gold. [21:36]
asciilifeform jurov: the (very fragile!) mechanism at work here is the process whereby the 'flies were separated from the cutlets' [21:36]
mircea_popescu it doesn't take some sort of official pronouncement, like the "chemistry foundation" of 1700 signed a statement that they "now hereby reject the heresy of alchemy" [21:36]
mircea_popescu just, as people stopped trying alchemy they rejected it, it's all therein contained. [21:37]
asciilifeform it is also worth thinking about what kind of cocks folks we regard as 'genuine article' had to suck, in their times, to stay fed. e.g., kepler's tours of duty as court astrologer. [21:38]
* asciilifeform wasn't bottle-buddies with kepler, cannot attest as to the degree of enthusiasm with which he sucked the cock [21:39]
mircea_popescu the word sinecure originates from this time, specifically the actual peasant sucking the cock's despising of the uncocksucky position of kepler. [21:39]
asciilifeform aha [21:39]
* asciilifeform met quite a few genuine thinkers, leaves of living matter in the great garbage disposal of u.s. academia. folks who spend 90+% of their time on 'grantmanship' while fully aware of the idiocy of the entire structure. but had no escape ticket. [21:41]
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chetty sadly as long as people keep looking for a 'ticket' this will continue [21:42]
asciilifeform the machine is actually structured very well to avoid creating conscious malcontents. they happen anyway. [21:42]
asciilifeform chetty: hero - straight to sword. what should mathematicians eat ? [21:42]
mircea_popescu their wife. [21:43]
asciilifeform 'El coronel necesitó setenta y cinco años —los setenta y cinco años de su vida, minuto a minuto— para llegar a ese instante. Se sintió puro, explícito, invencible, en el momento de responder. — Mierda.' [21:43]
undata 100k can march in the street here and the rest do not take note [21:43]
asciilifeform ('El coronel no tiene quien le escriba.') [21:43]
chetty well it is sad, I don't have an answer, just recognize the problem, ...what will turn the herd? [21:43]
asciilifeform ^ catastrophically-badly specified engineering problem [21:44]
asciilifeform let's try a physical approach. [21:45]
undata americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems. [21:45]
asciilifeform what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going? [21:45]
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asciilifeform and can this come out of some reasonably-sane mechanism [21:46]
undata asciilifeform: how about owning the means to produce one's own food [21:46]
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undata and being left alone [21:46]
asciilifeform and can the meat go into the man's mouth before being caked with flies? [21:46]
undata that's what I'm aiming for [21:46]
asciilifeform what does it take to keep the flies off. [21:46]
asciilifeform stephenson's tale provided one answer. [21:47]
asciilifeform it was a fictional story, however, not an engineering recipe. [21:47]
asciilifeform (in fact, specifically implied that it took place on a planet with slightly less retarded inhabitants than this one) [21:48]
mircea_popescu americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems. << this is true actually. seriously, "dating guides" ? [21:49]
undata if anyone knew, it'd have been done [21:49]
undata asciilifeform: ^ [21:49]
mircea_popescu "how to talk to women" ? [21:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going? << food. [21:49]
mircea_popescu and yes. wife. [21:49]
asciilifeform undata: otto lilienfeld has a transistor in the '20s. [21:49]
undata mircea_popescu: "someday the right master will pour the right answers into my head. then I'll be great, you'll see" [21:49]
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asciilifeform undata: 'knew' -> 'done' is not automatic. [21:49]
undata asciilifeform: "knew" without a viable process to get to whats "known" is not "known" [21:50]
undata but elaborate [21:50]
asciilifeform undata: just one specific example where devil is in the details. [21:50]
undata for sure [21:51]
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asciilifeform !s coffin liner [21:51]
assbot 3 results for 'coffin liner' : [21:51]
undata asciilifeform: seems like the opportunity to get it "done" only arises from time to time [21:52]
undata there needs to be at that time someone with the sense to lead and the means to offer something in exchange [21:52]
asciilifeform example: [21:52]
assbot Logged on 16-02-2014 00:31:00; asciilifeform: 2 yrs. ago i figured out how to flex a fairly ordinary multi-conductor cable in an arbitrary spot, at an arbitrary angle, purely electrically. [21:52]
asciilifeform i (and quite a few other folks) have a collection of own 'lilienfeld's transistors' [21:52]
asciilifeform not everybody even bothers to tell anyone. [21:52]
asciilifeform ars longa. [21:53]
undata it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better" [21:54]
undata rather than just in a different shape [21:54]
undata glorious leader given the power to reshape society tends to turn it into a masturbation implement [21:54]
undata maybe that points to cultivating better fetishes? hah [21:55]
undata regardless I'm not the guy [21:55]
mircea_popescu it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better" << the canonical form of this is, "it is unlikely for the tadpole that ever lived in the same one puddle to imagine what different puddle means" [21:55]
undata I just want to write code and grow food [21:55]
mircea_popescu which is why young men should go abroad. [21:55]
asciilifeform asking inventors to always 'independently wealthy' is like asking your computer to harvest all of its energy (and material to create additional parts) from the environment on its own accord. a 'would be nice' scenario, but there are good reasons why it is not practical. machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machin [21:55]
asciilifeform es. [21:55]
undata mircea_popescu: having gained means I will likely do many things I've never done [21:55]
undata for now I'll grind my life away [21:55]
mircea_popescu speaking of which : anyone want to hear retold the ancient japanese story of the turtle from kyoto and the turtle from osaka ? [21:56]
asciilifeform me. [21:56]
mircea_popescu an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in kyoto. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of throwing strands of silk over the pond, which became fashionable, [21:57]
undata sure [21:57]
asciilifeform undata: glorious leader given the power... tends to turn it into a masturbation implement << straight to aristotle's 'politics' on what the pill here is. [21:57]
mircea_popescu but bothered the turtle, because it could no longer see the light of the soon or the moon, or the stars. [21:57]
mircea_popescu an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in osaka. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of launching ever more bright felinars at night, which bothered its sleep. [21:57]
mircea_popescu eventually the turtle from kyoto had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to osaka. [21:58]
mircea_popescu eventually the turtle from osaka had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to kyoto. [21:58]
mircea_popescu after putting step after step for long enough they met at the midpoint of the road between kyoto and osaka. [21:58]
mircea_popescu they saluted each other, and soon realised each comes from the other's destination. so they naturally inquired [21:58]
mircea_popescu how is osaka like ?! [21:58]
mircea_popescu oh, terrible brother, just terrible. how about kyoto ? [21:59]
mircea_popescu just as terrible as well! [21:59]
mircea_popescu then, after a moment of reflection, they said their goodbies and parted ways [21:59]
mircea_popescu the turtle from osaka, back towards its pond, in osaka [21:59]
mircea_popescu and the turtle from kyoto, back towards its pond [21:59]
mircea_popescu in kyoto. [21:59]
adlai should've chatted over a beer rather than hurriedly yapping on the road [22:00]
mircea_popescu adlai there is no guarantee that turtle language includes space for more than "terrible"./ [22:00]
adlai salutes have quite low information density [22:00]
adlai how terrible [22:01]
mircea_popescu you're generally not at liberty to rely on an infinite representational space. [22:01]
asciilifeform ^ [22:01]
asciilifeform much shorter soviet version: [22:01]
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asciilifeform 'a hedgehog marches in the fog, with a rifle.' 'not funny at all, but at least it's a tale about war!' [22:02]
mircea_popescu (to be perfectly fair the original japanese folk story doesn't have that explicit in there, but hey. posteriority separates and all that) [22:03]
* assbot gives voice to mike_c [22:03]
asciilifeform explicit doesn't work for teaching. [22:04]
asciilifeform just as looking at a set of weights doesn't grow muscle. [22:04]
undata asciilifeform: depends, are you teaching a new language? [22:04]
asciilifeform undata: there, the implicit part is 'go reverse engineer' [22:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machines. << splendidly put. [22:05]
asciilifeform incidentally, this doesn't always work. witness the mindless regurgitators who shine in every academic chumpatron. [22:05]
asciilifeform 'inventor must be wealthy' works about as well as 'computer ought to be a cow.' wouldntitbenice. [22:06]
undata members of my family grow their own food, and do so without taking up their entire day [22:07]
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undata I don't buy it. [22:07]
asciilifeform undata: what do they pay protection money with ? [22:07]
undata asciilifeform: the rest of their day [22:07]
asciilifeform aha. [22:07]
asciilifeform qed. [22:07]
undata there's the problem then, not the food [22:07]
asciilifeform 'food' in the abstract, in the sense of what is the total input required for the 'machine' (mr inventor) to function. [22:08]
undata we can make iPhones, but not reduce the work required to produce food? [22:08]
undata I'm watching people do it with crude processes [22:08]
mircea_popescu careful with those "We"s brother [22:08]
asciilifeform lol [22:08]
mircea_popescu lest i make you show me how you produce ipods. [22:08]
mats_cd03 the work required to produce food _has_ been reduced [22:09]
undata surely you see what I'm driving at. [22:09]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03 then why don't you have any ? [22:09]
undata I know people with a greenhouse and a field that eat *very* well, better than I do. [22:09]
mats_cd03 ~200mn chinese work the fields. ~12mn americans do the same task, afaik. [22:09]
asciilifeform thing is, food (per se) is presently a mostly free ride, for so long as petrochemistry keeps trucking. [22:09]
mats_cd03 thanks, technology! [22:09]
mircea_popescu this is the quintesential broken approach. there's "food" as you're talking, there's "food" as he's talking. [22:09]
mircea_popescu these aren't the same. [22:09]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform but somehow the people who expect to be able to eat without being slaves also bitch at the people fighting for the oil requisite for that arrangement. [22:10]
mats_cd03 i don't agree with this distinction [22:10]
mircea_popescu because ars longa, vision short-a. [22:10]
undata "rulers will always want all of my time" ? [22:10]
asciilifeform ahaha yes. [22:10]
asciilifeform !b 2 [22:11]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [22:11]
mats_cd03 the food i consume has nutrition, and calories, and it sates the appetite. so far, my life expectancy has not changed in any way. how is it nto food? [22:11]
* undata declares himself confused [22:11]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03 it's not the whole story of food. [22:11]
mats_cd03 we've been over this thing, where "americans don't eat real food" [22:11]
mircea_popescu the food your master chooses to dispense to you in exchange for scrip that master has given you n the first place [22:12]
mats_cd03 sure. true story. doesn't mean "real food" isn't actually available. [22:12]
undata mats_cd03: wandering further from the mark [22:12]
mircea_popescu is obviously a dependency on the fucking master in question [22:12]
asciilifeform there is a reason why i say 'usaschwitz.' what's the actual problem, in most people's mind, with living in a concentration camp? [22:12]
mircea_popescu and if putin keeps hammering him in the head all over the middle east, your scrip may be as good as the confederate's. [22:12]
undata mircea_popescu: the master imposes the need to be fed by the master [22:12]
undata people fed themselves throughout history [22:12]
undata and before it [22:12]
mircea_popescu undata not so. [22:12]
asciilifeform or, rephrase: does it actually cost 2k usd/mo. to keep the box presently over my head standing? if not, who pockets the difference? [22:12]
mircea_popescu people, of the common kind, can only be fed by a master. [22:12]
asciilifeform and what units is it denominated in, in actuality. [22:12]
undata mircea_popescu: to say what of the people I know who feed themselves? [22:12]
mircea_popescu undata that they're momentarily realising gains out of externalised costs that haven't yet caught up with them. [22:13]
mircea_popescu once they get lynched by an angry mob you can say what you will, [22:13]
mircea_popescu for we're looking at the full story. [22:13]
undata mircea_popescu: where's the ruler then? [22:13]
undata and if he doesn't want them feeding themselves and working hard, what's he doing? [22:13]
mircea_popescu keeping the mob busy on reddit atm [22:13]
undata isn't this exactly my point? [22:13]
mircea_popescu i dunno. [22:13]
asciilifeform externalised costs << the entire story of government is - some folks staying warm by burning other folks' furniture (or dessicated carcasses.) [22:14]
asciilifeform see also, obligatory, j.c. scott, 'the art of not being governed.' [22:14]
asciilifeform or hell, kropotkin. [22:14]
mats_cd03 i can't have this discussion strictly framed in metaphors and still understand what you're talking about [22:14]
undata mircea_popescu: I am suggesting that the people I'm describing are doing it right [22:14]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03 puncture one, we can go from there [22:14]
mats_cd03 or rather, can't grok. [22:14]
mircea_popescu that's the point of metaphores, to keep getting punctured. [22:14]
undata and that the ruler might be wise to set conditions for their success, not the others [22:14]
mircea_popescu out of their dried skins reality is built [22:14]
undata lest we all eat corn byproducts and let our country burn [22:14]
asciilifeform the only thing inventor (artist, whoever) can do is argue to the arsonist that he'd be of more use as something other than firewood [22:15]
mircea_popescu undata surely, everyone who's alive is doing ~it~ right [22:15]
undata mircea_popescu: depends on what comes in the next frame [22:15]
undata they may just be incredibly shortsighted [22:15]
mircea_popescu so yes, i grant that too, that your guys are pretty well above most. [22:15]
mircea_popescu in terms of likely future frames. [22:15]
undata [22:15]
mircea_popescu but this alone is not nearly the strength of your previous statement. [22:15]
asciilifeform see also: [22:16]
asciilifeform ;;google you and the atomic bomb [22:16]
gribble George Orwell: You and the Atomic Bomb: ; Orwell's 5 greatest essays: No. 4, "You and the Atomic Bomb" - Los ...: ; Fifty Orwell Essays - Project Gutenberg Australia: [22:16]
asciilifeform (rules of engagement between the 'arsonist' and the 'firewood' are determined primarily by technological state of the art) [22:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform since the iris young nitwit was mentioned, here's a q for you : how many maths or generally actual scientists you ever heard of that were full professors at 34 ? [22:17]
asciilifeform today? in usa? [22:18]
mircea_popescu or phd at 25 ? [22:18]
asciilifeform i know of none, anywhere. [22:18]
mircea_popescu yes, [22:18]
mircea_popescu well, she did it, somehow. [22:18]
asciilifeform and if there lives one, he's sitting on grant committees with the other zeks. [22:18]
mircea_popescu myeah. [22:18]
* asciilifeform is glad that he was drummed out of academia [22:18]
* asciilifeform at least gets to go down fighting [22:19]
* undata acknowledges that a lot of people "doing it right" got smashed to pieces when the USSR collapsed as well [22:21]
* asciilifeform could point out that today's phd is not the same animal as james clerk maxwell's. but doubts that it needs saying. [22:22]
undata this goes to my earlier statement about good people eating bullets [22:22]
undata the US is just... done. [22:22]
asciilifeform he - 25, yes. but today, it just means you give 'good head.' [22:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform combination of good head and good tits [22:23]
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mircea_popescu it's not fully learnable. [22:23]
asciilifeform or the male equivalent. [22:23]
* asciilifeform not specialist. [22:23]
mircea_popescu actually the reason it can't be fully learnable has more to do with godel than with tits and ass. [22:24]
asciilifeform more predator/prey equilibrium [22:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00073247 = 1.2452 BTC [-] [22:28]
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undata asciilifeform: today's american phd has the requisite psychology to thrive climbing ~25 years of bureaucracy [22:31]
asciilifeform starting from grade school. [22:31]
undata yep [22:31]
asciilifeform and not simply bureaucracy in the usual sense of the word. [22:31]
undata soul-crushing meaningless process [22:31]
undata the US public school system is a prison system [22:32]
mircea_popescu ;;google "in the attempt to make prison more like school, they made school more like prison" [22:32]
gribble New Orleans schools feel too much like prisons | The Hechinger ...: ; The School-to-Prison Pipeline | Teaching Tolerance: ; Fact Sheet: How Bad Is the School-to-Prison Pipeline? | Tavis ... - PBS: (1 more message) [22:32]
asciilifeform 'prussian' schooling is not in itself fatal. plenty of worthwhile folks survived it. but requisite in 'survive' is 'escape.' [22:32]
undata mircea_popescu: the highschool in my home town was apty designed by a prison architect [22:33]
undata *aptly [22:33]
mircea_popescu fuck you google, that's the worst matching ever. [22:33]
mircea_popescu ;;google "under the guise of making prison more like school the reverse is of course accomplished." [22:33]
gribble Digging through archives yields gold pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: ; Rehabilitation Facts, information, pictures | ...: ; Top 10 Reagan Achievements | Human Events: [22:33]
mircea_popescu y u not know natural language! [22:33]
undata asciilifeform: to say nothing of its waste, though [22:34]
asciilifeform waste is a 2nd law invariant. [22:34]
mircea_popescu undata you can't waste the living. [22:34]
undata mircea_popescu: please elaborate. [22:34]
mircea_popescu if you don't eat a bit of lard, some rat will find it. [22:34]
asciilifeform 'sanitars of the forest' ! [22:34]
mircea_popescu the proof that there was nothing there to waste in the first place is the simple fact of having been wasted. [22:34]
undata by what metrics would you like me to describe the failings of the american system? [22:34]
mircea_popescu good q. [22:35]
asciilifeform the concept of 'waste' requires a process goal. [22:35]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but how do you measure the wastefullness of pointlessness ? [22:35]
asciilifeform e.g., if the objective is to fatten pigs, rather than rats, then yes - waste. [22:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this requires inventing 'point.' [22:35]
asciilifeform the basic setting on the dial. [22:35]
mircea_popescu i suppose in a system without objective all is a waste, which reduces to what i said. [22:35]
undata "that which maximizes human growth and survival" [22:36]
undata is good [22:36]
asciilifeform precisely [22:36]
asciilifeform 'precisely' to mircea_popescu [22:36]
mircea_popescu undata it's pretty good nonsense, yeah [22:36]
undata and that's strictly an opinion [22:36]
asciilifeform not to 'growth and survival' [22:36]
adlai aegis agamemnon23 AlexWkz altoz AndrewJackson Anduck Apocalyptic arij artifexd asciilifeform assbot atcbot Azelphur [22:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25509 @ 0.00073263 = 18.6887 BTC [+] [22:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform too late :D [22:36]
jurov i'd rather like an answer that when current system finally fails due to bitcoin, will this get us rid of only the bad ideas? [22:36]
* asciilifeform uninterested in human biomass maximization [22:36]
mircea_popescu jurov definitely not. [22:36]
undata mircea_popescu: how is any other goal coherent absent that [22:36]
undata asciilifeform: that's not what I said [22:36]
mircea_popescu undata there is no goal possible in politics. [22:36]
undata maximizing biomass may not maximize survival [22:36]
mircea_popescu hence the entire "proceed from cause not towards goals" thing. [22:37]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [22:37]
gribble Current Blocks: 327911 | Current Difficulty: 3.598564026507623E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 328607 | Next Difficulty In: 696 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38956321236.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.25518 [22:37]
undata mircea_popescu: then why does every leader impose one? [22:37]
undata is that not his role? [22:37]
jurov i guess the surviving ideas and people will get selected cvasi randomly [22:37]
mircea_popescu only shitty "leaders" do. [22:37]
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jurov thus the trilema's article is false [22:37]
mircea_popescu jurov no, not randomly. [22:37]
jurov how not? [22:37]
asciilifeform the basic 'job description' of the aristocrat is to specify 'point' [22:37]
mircea_popescu how so lol! wait, i'm proving the negative now ? [22:37]
asciilifeform i.e. 'where to live to' [22:37]
jurov there was pseudoscience before wwiii, there was not much less of it after [22:37]
jurov *wwii [22:38]
jurov perhaps, depending where you lived [22:38]
undata I'd enjoy clarification of the point that there are no goals in politics. [22:38]
undata goal implies end state? [22:39]
asciilifeform extant problem is not the overabundance of 'flies' (plenty of funded garbage in babylon as now) but the disappearance of 'cutlets'. [22:39]
mircea_popescu undata here's an article discussing that "leaders" thing : [22:39]
assbot On The Superiority of Monarchy (or, adnotations to Why the Worst Get on Top) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [22:39]
mircea_popescu specifically, "What fucking plans ? Why does the dictator have to absolutely have some sort of plans, aforethought ? Maybe he’s a dictator in the proper sense, because his group perceived him as worthy. He didn’t go to them, like an obnoxious lawyer spawn, with a list of whatever items are fashionable - promises, intentions, qualities, college degrees - to ask to be made a dictator and thus have the gaping void and [22:39]
mircea_popescu ontological fear of nothingness chewing away at his frail identity somehow resolved.x No, maybe they came to him, saying “look Cincinnatus, you are the best among us, and the best by so very far you must be our dictator” and he said “Maybe; we’ll see”. What plans did then Cincinnatus have, exactly ? That all men must assemble on the Camp of Mars ? And if they hadn’t, what exact moral impediment’d have th [22:39]
mircea_popescu at been for him ?" [22:39]
jurov well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy" [22:40]
mircea_popescu by some. [22:40]
jurov would he promote rationa thought? [22:41]
mircea_popescu (ie, the chtulhy cult) [22:41]
asciilifeform the disappearance of the aristicrat (fellow who is bred to the task of 'deciding where to live to') is the basic boojum [22:41]
asciilifeform everybody with half a neuron (aristotle to mr moldbug) groks this [22:41]
jurov not by some. by everyone by order. that's definition of dictatorship. [22:41]
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mircea_popescu jurov not so. the definition of dictatorship is merely "he whose word makes truth" [22:41]
jurov example? [22:42]
thestringpuller jurov: well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy" << unless someone like Cartman befriends him. [22:42]
mircea_popescu cincinnatus says "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather. [22:42]
asciilifeform what modern folks think of as 'dictator' is really, (psychiatric observation) the name given to a fellow who tries to do the job of aristocrat without having been bred for the task (as in a woman who thinks she can fill in for a milk cow) [22:43]
thickasthieves [22:43]
assbot Btcguild shutting down. : Bitcoin [22:43]
mircea_popescu thickasthieves was on qntra earlier [22:43]
thestringpuller thickasthieves: << qntra is on it [22:43]
thickasthieves ah fuk [22:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite so. some women manage admirably. [22:43]
asciilifeform but observe, no human dairy farms. (perhaps a mere engineering problem!) [22:43]
mircea_popescu (if we're to trust the usual US statistics and general scientific consensus, which is to say comic books) [22:44]
mircea_popescu ;;google woman milking farm [22:44]
gribble Picturing Women Farmers - Modern Farmer: ; Success story of a diary farming by Women : Sweety Diary Farm ...: ; At our farm - YouTube: [22:44]
mircea_popescu o.O [22:44]
jurov "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather. << okay, but to return to the topic, how this advances rational thought? [22:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9144 @ 0.00073349 = 6.707 BTC [+] [22:45]
mircea_popescu jurov the dictator's a political institution, not a gnoseological tool. [22:45]
jurov oh that was an answer to undata [22:46]
mircea_popescu hmm can't find it now, but ayway, there's an entire wank niche dedicated to woman-to-cow transformations, woman-dairy farms etc. [22:47]
* asciilifeform unsurprised [22:47]
mircea_popescu about as good science as krugman's economics or obama's peace. [22:47]
mircea_popescu "makes me warm inside" criterion. [22:47]
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mircea_popescu << rational process. [22:50]
assbot Fountain of Doubt [22:50]
asciilifeform << pertinent [22:53]
assbot Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive [22:53]
asciilifeform ^ for anyone still awake [22:54]
mircea_popescu << further rational process [22:54]
assbot Fountain of Death [22:54]
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undata mircea_popescu: in reading your article, it seems that one of the disconnects in the above has been that I perceive certain kinds of conflict wasteful which you do not. [22:59]
mircea_popescu well, the problem with "wasteful" is you gotta specify more about the situation than you can. [22:59]
undata mircea_popescu: being that I'm not the one setting goals for the society [22:59]
mircea_popescu has all the spunk that hasn't filled a vagina been wasted ? how about that's not been swallowed ? rubbed on tits ? [23:00]
mircea_popescu what is this waste you speak of. [23:00]
undata in my particular, engineers who rot in the halls of googles and facebooks, I think [23:00]
mircea_popescu you don't like the ulterior effects of socialism, but you do like some of the premises, such as "X for all", as in, "a future for all", "a chance for all" etc. [23:00]
mircea_popescu well... whence this bonanza ? [23:00]
undata no, I don't. it's not socialism for my family to feed itself [23:01]
mircea_popescu to try to. [23:01]
undata but I can see that I've used some of their terms to describe how I feel about it [23:01]
mircea_popescu so does everyone, what, you think kaybosh hungerlice of kenya isn't trying ? [23:01]
mircea_popescu he's trying alright. [23:01]
undata so my family feeds itself because it presently can, which indicates nothing about whether that fact is due to their own action [23:02]
undata I can buy that. [23:02]
mircea_popescu im not going as far. [23:02]
mircea_popescu you presently are able to feed yourself, which indicates nothing about whether you OUGHT TO be so able. [23:02]
undata I think I'm just arguing for more robust citizens [23:02]
undata ah [23:02]
mircea_popescu because never an is and an ought shall kiss. [23:03]
undata what is the benefit of weakened citizens? [23:03]
mircea_popescu benefit to whom ? [23:03]
undata well hell, I don [23:03]
undata t know [23:03]
undata haha [23:03]
mircea_popescu so then that's your answer :) [23:03]
undata mircea_popescu: when you get used to masters which withold food, don't you dream of otherwise? [23:03]
mircea_popescu my dreams are not comprehensible in human language. [23:04]
mircea_popescu anyway, any frustrated desire is as entitled as any other. once it satisfies itself so it's no longer a desire it will have gained its rightful death. [23:05]
undata given the task to deliver, does it help the trucker's delivery to have only enough gas to arrive at his destination [23:05]
mircea_popescu sure. [23:05]
undata and if the man who designates the quota miscalulated, the load is lost [23:05]
mircea_popescu well maybe, sue. [23:06]
mircea_popescu sure* [23:06]
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undata mircea_popescu: and then the truckers get tired of losing loads and we lose generations instead [23:07]
mircea_popescu well, "lose" [23:08]
mircea_popescu the 2000-2010 generation of usians isn't anymore lost than the 1500-1510 generation of usians [23:08]
mircea_popescu who mostly got eaten by wolves or w/e, or the 1000-1010 generation, that didn't even exist. [23:09]
mircea_popescu whence this expectation to be important and matter anyway ? [23:09]
undata everyone wants what he wants [23:11]
BingoBoingo [23:11]
assbot Qntra: Nearly a month in | Bingo Blog [23:11]
undata I'd rather not matter to anyone. [23:11]
mircea_popescu so then what do you care about "wasted" generations whatever that may mean. [23:11]
undata lets say there's a comet heading for us [23:12]
undata and lets say the guy that knew how to stop it shot himself 10 years ago because he could not find a use [23:12]
undata the ruler should be a search function identifying merit and putting it to work [23:12]
mircea_popescu listen, you were here earlier when rand was being put down for being verbose, pointlessly so. [23:12]
undata above, masturbation implement [23:13]
mircea_popescu there's very little economy in your fiction, not just this present comet thing, but the previous thing with the truck. such wasteful abuse of literary means. [23:13]
mircea_popescu art comes from economy. [23:13]
mircea_popescu so, you're asking me to believe that the guy was going to stop the comet with his cock ? or how exactly did he get to be the ONE ? [23:13]
mircea_popescu is this a comic book ? [23:13]
BingoBoingo Maybe? [23:14]
* nubbins` has quit (Quit: Quit) [23:14]
mircea_popescu there's a reason i quote shakespeare rather than rand. [23:14]
BingoBoingo Comet Stopping Cock might be a decent flick [23:14]
undata rulers which don't care about the lives of their underlings eventually burn [23:15]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i think the orgasm subtext in "comet" needs moar usage tho. [23:15]
mircea_popescu undata all rulers eventually burn. and all underlings, too. [23:15]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well a good story needs an antagonist, in this case the Comet Cummer [23:15]
mircea_popescu this earth-and-heaven xtianity thing... it really got people enthralled did it. [23:15]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet" [23:16]
BingoBoingo Seems that way [23:16]
mircea_popescu ;;google "above you only sky" [23:16]
gribble Above Us Only Sky: ; Above Us Only Sky Bar & Bungalows (Sihanoukville, Cambodia ...: ; Above Us Only Sky in SihanoukVille, Cambodia. - YouTube: [23:16]
undata and no possessions too? [23:17]
mircea_popescu no. [23:17]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet" << I'm thinking a series of comets head towards earth, they were uncharted. Astronauts go to find the source and it's jsut a masturbating space giant. They have to fuck it and make it a pocket pussy so it stops endangering worlds with its seed [23:17]
mircea_popescu he gets things half right, it's how teh sews work. [23:18]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo sounds like a decent "lsd/pot stories" series. [23:18]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well... kina how B movies make their bread [23:19]
thestringpuller Random and off topic. Pierre_Rochard was telling me about a country whose economy was riddle with Ponzi Schemes to the point real businesses were losing value because the ponzi's outnumbered the real businesses. I think it's Albania Maybe someone can help shed more light as he didn't know what the country was at the time. [23:19]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller this was actually amply discussed in here, a while back. [23:19]
thestringpuller is it albania? [23:19]
undata mircea_popescu: 'we all die someday' was not what I was saying [23:19]
thestringpuller !s Albania scheme [23:19]
assbot 0 results for 'Albania scheme' : [23:19]
undata what we do before we die is what's relevant [23:19]
thestringpuller !s Albania pyramid scheme [23:19]
assbot 0 results for 'Albania pyramid scheme' : [23:19]
thestringpuller !s Albania ponzi [23:20]
assbot 0 results for 'Albania ponzi' : [23:20]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller yeah it is. [23:20]
thestringpuller i'll dig into logs. thanks mp [23:20]
undata should the ruler not care about the continued breathing of the peasants, the peasants are best off making themselves as useless a burden to him as possible [23:20]
undata that's where that antagonism ends up [23:20]
undata or... "if you do not make me an offer worth taking, I will work for someone else" [23:21]
undata absent the socialist subsidy of failure this works fine [23:22]
asciilifeform there has to be a 'someone else.' [23:25]
asciilifeform !s pepsi [23:25]
assbot 27 results for 'pepsi' : [23:25]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller quick grep [23:25]
assbot 2014 Feb 28 08:55:06 diametric: the latest trend is that Mar - [23:25]
undata asciilifeform: there are myriad other producers of the same syrupy garbage [23:25]
undata I can walk to one that makes their own in two blocks [23:26]
asciilifeform undata: nah. pepsi in the sense of kingdoms to defect to. [23:26]
undata pepsi isn't the king [23:26]
asciilifeform and a sufficiently porous fence. [23:26]
undata and shouldn't be [23:26]
undata the ruler should be setting the conditions for an operating market and then letting it run [23:26]
undata and should in that sense is "it is in the interest of the subjects to light themselves on fire otherwise" [23:27]
asciilifeform undata: 'pepsi' in the sense of an alternative to 'coke', which, in the lack of alternative, turns into 'usg soda' [23:27]
undata rulers die, do they not? [23:27]
undata it's the building that remains [23:28]
undata what beyond contract inforcement and defense does one want out of a government? [23:28]
asciilifeform e.g., pre-unification italy, where if you were stuck under a ruler who isn't fond of trigonometry, you could walk to the domain of another who is - and will hold your pursuers off by force of arms, if he's an aficionado of your work [23:28]
undata asciilifeform: I find it hard to not use that example to support my point of view [23:29]
asciilifeform see the life of, e.g., leon theremin, to see that this does not always work as planned - but it is still the only thing that works. [23:29]
asciilifeform if there were a 'pepsi' alternative to usg, folks who can make any claim at value would be defecting in droves. [23:30]
asciilifeform ('usg' here should be read as the entire nato blok.) [23:31]
undata so there should be many small militaries constantly warring? [23:31]
asciilifeform yes. [23:31]
undata that's the stupidist thing I've heard today. [23:31]
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undata sounds like a great way to make militarism the only thing practiced. [23:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3193 @ 0.00073252 = 2.3389 BTC [-] [23:33]
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undata half the planet irradiated for the glory of the leader [23:34]
undata you end up with the best leader and nothing to lead. [23:35]
adlai best military* leader [23:35]
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undata adlai: half in here imagine themselves a mongol as they sit hunched over a keyboard [23:38]
* adlai is more troglodyte than mongol [23:38]
* undata would be headed thataway in a firefly class vessel were it 200yrs later [23:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00073239 = 9.5577 BTC [-] {2} [23:44]
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mats_cd03 this business of wanting is what got us into this mess in the first place [23:50]
jurov X-BT goes with altcoin [23:51]
mats_cd03 letting that kind of talk run its course is how you get socialism. everybody wants, everybody gets. [23:51]
jurov just got email it's closing [23:51]
mats_cd03 assuming world peace is the rightful, desirable end state is kind of silly [23:52]
Apocalyptic was no point running it any longer [23:52]
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jurov you did not offer it for sale? [23:52]
Apocalyptic it's probably not worth much as is [23:53]
asciilifeform irradiated for the glory of the leader << funny how this happened to exactly no one back when 'small militaries constantly warring' was a thing. [23:53]
BingoBoingo from thestringpuller [23:55]
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asciilifeform BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold << say hello to usg's brand-spanking-new mining pool reserve. [23:56]
thestringpuller [23:57]
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