Forum logs for 31 Oct 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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asciilifeform	os x << lol	[00:00]
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BingoBoingo	This is more interesting with the other side's context http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/10/30/why_do_russian_jets_keep_buzzing_european_countries.html	[00:03]
chetty	Are they using 'wish' maps maybe?	[00:04]
undata	ben_vulpes: k so that linux-mingw makefile as starting point?	[00:04]
undata	that and unix survived. I was using the unix one	[00:05]
PeterL	!up scoobot	[00:06]
undata	bleh nvm, mingw is that gnu windows thing	[00:07]
undata	shouldn't that die too?	[00:07]
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bounce	do you have berkeleydb installed and are you using gmake?	[00:08]
bounce	though might not need the latter, dunno.	[00:08]
undata	I do; gentoo's just got it in /usr/include/db4.8	[00:09]
bounce	thought you were doing an os x build	[00:10]
undata	bounce: neg, was not led by the patch name "chicken" to believe that that one cleaned up the project	[00:11]
undata	so I was deleting things	[00:11]
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nubbins`	ben_vulpes: where is db_cxx.h on OS X? <<< brew install berkeley-db4	[00:20]
nubbins`	mine's in /usr/local/Cellar/berkeley-db4/4.8.30/include/	[00:21]
undata	nubbins`: what I meant to be asking is whether gentoo was weird by putting it in /usr/include/db4.8	[00:22]
undata	gentoo has this "slots" mechanism for having multiple versions of libraries	[00:22]
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nubbins`	beats me. i've got a debian install here, it's in /usr/include	[00:23]
undata	that answers that, ty	[00:24]
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PeterL	!up scoopbot	[00:28]
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BingoBoingo	Os X is the weird one	[00:35]
BingoBoingo	It always is	[00:36]
BingoBoingo	U can't measure apple color with tools, because Apple is beyond measuring with tools http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/10/why-is-the-new-imac-5k-instead-of-4k-its-all-about-the-video-baby/	[00:39]
assbot	Why is the new iMac 5K instead of 4K? It’s all about the video, baby \| Ars Technica	[00:39]
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undata	asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: muchas gracias; patched and built	[00:50]
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ben_vulpes	holy f	[00:52]
ben_vulpes	client signed a no-deliverable, best effort contract with us and then made promises to their client executives.	[00:52]
PeterL	why would they do that?	[00:54]
ben_vulpes	maybe the next time i actually laugh at a scope/timeline combination in a meeting and the potential client still falls all over themselves to sign our no deliverable, best effort contract my internal warning flags should go up	[00:55]
PeterL	what is a "no deliverable best effort contract"?	[00:56]
ben_vulpes	hours only	[00:56]
undata	"look, your cat is likely to die during this life-saving procedure. sign here." ?	[00:57]
ben_vulpes	"we understand that you want these things. we will work on them in the agreed upon and prioritized order. you authorize unlimited budget in hopes that we can get it all done."	[00:57]
undata	ah	[00:57]
PeterL	so if you never get the first thing on the list done, then what happens?	[00:58]
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PeterL	who do I talk to to not have to !up scoopbot?	[01:03]
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BingoBoingo	PeterL: kakobrekla	[01:05]
jurov	!up dignork	[01:07]
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BingoBoingo	Oh, there's a coup in Burkina Faso	[01:07]
jurov	dignork: you second message got discarded	[01:07]
jurov	*your	[01:07]
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jurov	not able to debug it right now (imbibed stuff)	[01:09]
jurov	will let you know lateer what was he problem	[01:09]
jurov	;;gettrust assbot dignork	[01:09]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user dignork: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=dignork \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=dignork \| Rated since: Fri Oct 18 12:20:18 2013	[01:09]
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xanthyos	hi	[01:13]
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BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Thank you for pointing me to the Folksom book. The practice drills are the best.	[01:13]
BingoBoingo	!up The20YearIRCloud	[01:13]
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The20YearIRCloud	Hi?	[01:14]
BingoBoingo	Hi	[01:14]
The20YearIRCloud	On cell, just got on to check messages. You need anything?	[01:15]
BingoBoingo	No, just saw you pop in.	[01:16]
BingoBoingo	!up twistedether	[01:16]
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BingoBoingo	!up buytoshi	[01:19]
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BingoBoingo	!up yoloshill	[01:22]
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BingoBoingo	Journalism problems	[01:25]
BingoBoingo	https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/30/inside-story-matt-taibbis-departure-first-look-media/	[01:25]
assbot	The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept	[01:25]
undata	"What they found instead was a confounding array of rules, structures, and systems imposed by Omidyar and other First Look managers on matters both trivial—which computer program to use to internally communicate, mandatory regular company-wide meetings, mandated use of a “responsibility assignment matrix” called a “RASCI,” popular in business-school circles for managing projects—as well as	[01:28]
undata	more substantive issues." << bunch of crying	[01:28]
jurov	http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.general/12588/ << i'd like to have turdatron ready for the anniversary, but it's unlikely	[01:29]
assbot	Gmane -- Bitcoin P2P e cash paper	[01:29]
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BingoBoingo	See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit.	[01:30]
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undata	BingoBoingo: articles like this are hard; they're trying to integrate two sides of a debate, where likely neither party is being fair	[01:31]
undata	as for corporate organization, some mechanism for order is needed	[01:31]
undata	how else are you supposed to coordinate?	[01:31]
BingoBoingo	undata: Well, key part of getting to why it wants to be read one way is evaluating... What platform it lives on.	[01:32]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell PeterL first, second, third, umpteenth will get done. arbitrary items from bottom of list by time not communicated to dev team?	[01:33]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:33]
undata	BingoBoingo: yes of course	[01:34]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wherever you're going, check for cpp gurlz. << none!	[01:49]
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mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process. << srsly, how do you keep this dry ?	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	1 minute kakonizing > 1 hour martinizing	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo: https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net#!states << It's like a map of #b-a Usians << i thought everyone was from portland and atlanta.	[01:52]
assbot	Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast	[01:52]
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BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: No, I'm in one of the green ones in the middle	[01:53]
BingoBoingo	At least I thought I was.	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	shit traffic dropped yest	[01:54]
mircea_popescu	gotta fire someone.	[01:54]
BingoBoingo	What? Yesterday was up.	[01:54]
mircea_popescu	well yesterday we shoulda hired someone.	[01:55]
bounce	buncha slackers	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	i wonder how would a site worked on that principle go. "ever day traffic is up, hire someone ; every day traffic is down, fire someone"	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	sorta like ford only faster.	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	undata: mircea_popescu: ^ << nothing was said publicly on this topic.	[01:55]
BingoBoingo	I think that's how you make an Edsel	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time <<< what are you, new ?	[01:56]
BingoBoingo	Apparently ben fox has a neighbor	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects <<< there is. you're watching it. just because leadership is not in your face doesn't necessarily mean leadership is absent and it's your time to shine. it may also mean leadership is extremely good at what it does.	[01:57]
mircea_popescu	who's ben fox ?	[01:58]
BingoBoingo	Vulpes	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	oh oh wow missed that one.	[01:58]
mircea_popescu	maybe it's the hottie gf of his wife ?	[01:58]
BingoBoingo	I thought this is why alf patch series was named chicken	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	lol!	[01:59]
mircea_popescu	dude incredible how much subtext i miss. and i do read the logs!	[01:59]
BingoBoingo	I know	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i don't remember, is edsel a car or a bad cheesecake brand ?	[02:01]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Twas a Ford spinoff, focused on "affordable" cars	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	my facetious question ;/	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things.	[02:02]
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*	bounce likes an absence of smoking and ashtrays better	[02:02]
mircea_popescu	you actually mind smoke ?	[02:02]
BingoBoingo	hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. << Wait this thing I've been doing forever is unusual? I always wash the ashtrays at least weekly	[02:03]
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mircea_popescu	*: BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype << my hope is that in the 2020s. but i've been off before by an xmas or two.	[02:03]
BingoBoingo	Prolly best to talk about these things in terms of reward halvings rather than xmas's.	[02:04]
bounce	once had a job contract that forbade me from minding smoke. but at home I very much prefer no smoking at all.	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo a couple, hopefully not a dozen.	[02:04]
BingoBoingo	AH	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	bounce i don't care either way. maybe i;m the only person left i guess.	[02:04]
BingoBoingo	bounce: How do you become functional in the morning without coffee and cigarettes? Gotta mix your stims.	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	the us "debate", an engine wasting time and paper while going from unpolarized to polarized.	[02:05]
bounce	how? just like erryday	[02:05]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo he has a point there, this "need coffee to wake up" thing is nonsense. i know this experimentally.	[02:06]
BingoBoingo	What, you just carry your hangovers until they fade away on their own?	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	i never drink again anything that gives me a hangover.	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	emergency acute cure is "moare de varza" however.	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	;;google "moare de varza"	[02:07]
gribble	Zeama de varza: ; Varza murata \| Gradina visata: ; Reteta Varza Calita - Traditional romanian cabbage stew - YouTube:	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	basically kimchi juice.	[02:07]
BingoBoingo	Ah.	[02:08]
bounce	rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol	[02:08]
BingoBoingo	rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol << What's the point of drinking if you un-drunk yourself so soon?	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	"do you wanna be able to get it out or do you wanna not be able to get it out ?"	[02:09]
BingoBoingo	What else is practice for? Some people pull trucks with their teeth. Some people practice other feats of physical performance.	[02:10]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: me - i don't want jsonism in my book. << anything actually solidified in your head as to what you actually want ? sigs, really ?	[02:11]
bounce	printable text that can nonetheless be verified. that'd be interesting.	[02:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: but now i don't see this thing as going anywhere << what, srlsy ?	[02:12]
*	bounce would add 2d barcodes (QR or something) for the sigantures	[02:13]
mats_cd03	someone once told me life is too short to avoid hangovers	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	it's going, it's going, don't blame the relative fixed position of mountains on the ass derping in the road.	[02:13]
bounce	s/gan/gna/	[02:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's going << i did specify hoping that i was wrong about this.	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes: classic russian fatalism <<< aaaaaaaahahaha, how do you know this ?	[02:13]
mircea_popescu	and was her name katja or natasha ?	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	tanya...	[02:14]
asciilifeform	!s sword hero	[02:14]
assbot	3 results for 'sword hero' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sword+hero	[02:14]
undata	mircea_popescu: I think you missed the point of my comment on open source, which was in response to "how will we ever finish the deturdification"	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	hmm, anyone taking bets on the name of the chick that informed mr fox as to the intricacies of the russian soul ?	[02:14]
asciilifeform	chicken << comes from recipe, attributed to the old gypsies: 'first, steal the chicken.'	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	undata that's possible.	[02:14]
undata	by assigning tasks and chipping away, that's how, and by brutally criticizing contributions	[02:14]
undata	I get offended to my core when someone says "can't be done, lets give up"	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	undata then again, mayhap you missed my point.	[02:15]
undata	and I think I misintepreted people when hearing that	[02:15]
*	asciilifeform did not say 'give up.' said: buy a man	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	possibly. buncha trolls here see ?	[02:15]
undata	asciilifeform: yep addressed	[02:15]
mircea_popescu	trolling for a reaction out of noobs.	[02:15]
*	asciilifeform specifically did not say 'buy me.'	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	;/	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	I WAS SAVING UP	[02:16]
*	asciilifeform knows of maxint folks cheaper and stronger	[02:16]
asciilifeform	l0lz	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	now lyf is devoid of ultimate significance, i will give up on lyfing!	[02:16]
*	asciilifeform old lyfer	[02:16]
mircea_popescu	topic is now knives.	[02:16]
asciilifeform	folsom!	[02:17]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo ^ comment	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	and tear tatoos.	[02:17]
BingoBoingo	Anyone want a pdf of the Folsom book?	[02:17]
*	asciilifeform has one	[02:17]
mircea_popescu	;;google cash folsom prison	[02:17]
asciilifeform	(book, not tattoo)	[02:17]
gribble	At Folsom Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Folsom Prison Blues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues - YouTube:	[02:17]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: The "drill" in the book is fun.	[02:17]
asciilifeform	aha.	[02:17]
BingoBoingo	Relaxing	[02:17]
*	asciilifeform dreamt, recently, that he had a knife teacher	[02:17]
BingoBoingo	Make dummie, savage dummy, imagine doing it better, reassemble dummie, repeat	[02:18]
asciilifeform	a grizzled old bugger	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform "how to defend yourself against the banana fiend" ?	[02:18]
asciilifeform	!s banana fiend	[02:18]
assbot	0 results for 'banana fiend' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=banana+fiend	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	;;google monty python how to defend yourself banana fiend	[02:18]
bounce	.oO( is this automutilation or just autotrolling? )	[02:18]
gribble	Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube: ; Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Monty Python's Flying Circus: Just the Words - Episode 4:	[02:18]
*	asciilifeform knows of no effective defense against banana	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	hah! first, you eat the banana, thus disarming him.	[02:18]
undata	mircea_popescu: I can take a trolling; my response was to ignore it	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	undata anyway, get the current code, build it and see what happens.	[02:19]
mircea_popescu	especially if it passes the magical block	[02:19]
mircea_popescu	for all we fucking know atm, bitcoin hardforked in march 2013 and nobody noticed.	[02:19]
undata	mircea_popescu: built and patched; will fiddle more later	[02:19]
bounce	can you self-defend against wookies?	[02:20]
*	undata hooks a drive up to begin blockchain slurp	[02:20]
BingoBoingo	bounce: Did you not read http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm the first time it was linked?	[02:21]
assbot	KNIFE FIGHTING	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud << this is never going to happen on the current db (bdb) because it's a pos, and if the computer fails unexpectedly it messes up the state.	[02:21]
mircea_popescu	nothing to do with bitcoin, well documented bdb issue.	[02:22]
*	asciilifeform did say he suspected	[02:22]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: can't say as i recall, the impression was formed over the course of 3 raves in quarries in the depths of oregon forests over my sixteenth summer.	[02:22]
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mircea_popescu	actually, it's perhaps not premature to start the subscription list of everyone's favourite db solution	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	this is perhaps the most important, momentuous architectura decision	[02:22]
ben_vulpes	lots of russians in the area.	[02:22]
mircea_popescu	and it needs all the weighin it can get	[02:22]
ben_vulpes	the gangsters live in vancouver	[02:22]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform-4.snapshot.tar.gz and http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform-4.snapshot.tar.gz.sig	[02:22]
asciilifeform	snapshot.	[02:22]
asciilifeform	for heroes.	[02:23]
bounce	courts tend to frown on defendants wielding fairbarn-sykes knives in session	[02:23]
ben_vulpes	the religious ones in salem.	[02:23]
ben_vulpes	'tis odd.	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know this looks like fucking advanced heroes of might and magic over here. barons, lords, heroes, dragons	[02:23]
mircea_popescu	WE GOT IT ALL	[02:23]
undata	asciilifeform: that's with the two patches, or something new?	[02:23]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: merging!	[02:23]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i was gonna use own db. for eventual transition to raw block device.	[02:23]
asciilifeform	for metal port.	[02:23]
asciilifeform	vita brevis.	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform like what you mean, tape ?	[02:24]
BingoBoingo	bounce: But it is a historical artifact which sits on collectible display next to bed.	[02:24]
asciilifeform	addressable block device.	[02:24]
asciilifeform	as in, 'bitcoinfs.'	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, a perfectly acceptable alternative : modular db, clearly documented bitcoin hooks, write-your-own-1klines or less api for anything.	[02:24]
asciilifeform	as in, it deserves to be treated as own fs.	[02:24]
BingoBoingo	Sheer coincidence I reached for Fairbairn Sykes and not Chris Carpenter Bobblehead	[02:24]
asciilifeform	with the two patches << with all of my patches so far.	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	there IS some significant ops advantage to not running any one stock db.	[02:25]
asciilifeform	there was some grumbling that i didn't post an auto-zapper that turns 0.5.3 into the hash manifest in 'chicken'	[02:25]
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asciilifeform	so here's my total merge.	[02:25]
asciilifeform	does not include bdb lock tweak suggested by mircea_popescu	[02:25]
asciilifeform	(who wants - can make)	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	that's unavoidable, otherwise thing won't pass into 2014.	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	on the blkchain i mean	[02:26]
bounce	fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic?	[02:26]
asciilifeform	modular db << sounds pleasurable, but this requires massive re-engineering of satoshi's turd.	[02:26]
asciilifeform	almost rewrite.	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	d'oh.	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	if you think satoshi's stuff can not be refactored to the point of rewriting, you're living inside a candy globe.	[02:27]
BingoBoingo	bounce> fairbarn-sykes in a collectible display case? what's it made off, star wars plastic? << Not in case, on nightstand. Made of whatever wartime shitiron England was using.	[02:27]
mircea_popescu	it really is that bad, like old man beard.	[02:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4883 @ 0.00080436 = 3.9277 BTC [+]	[02:27]
*	asciilifeform fesses up that he started a rewrite - before starting correspondence and unrelated project with mircea_popescu	[02:27]
*	asciilifeform in common lisp of course	[02:27]
ben_vulpes	pahaha.	[02:28]
BingoBoingo	!b 2	[02:28]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/177PGZY.txt )	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	but that's slow	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	b-b-b-b-bash buster!	[02:28]
asciilifeform	my cl often runs 1.5x or so of naive 'c'	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: just getting rid of boost is going to entail that.	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	anyone here know bishibosh ?	[02:28]
asciilifeform	because good native compiler.	[02:28]
asciilifeform	(sbcl)	[02:28]
asciilifeform	and annotations.	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	note that asciilifeform says "my cl".	[02:28]
asciilifeform	'my' is not mine alone, is common as dirt sbcl	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	good lord, he wants to rewrite cl as part of rewriting bitcoin	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	code quality and performance is highly dependent on author, skills.	[02:28]
*	asciilifeform has private fork of sbcl, it has nothing to do with this	[02:29]
ben_vulpes	haha	[02:29]
asciilifeform	dance quality depends on dancer, yes, news at 11	[02:29]
*	ben_vulpes is entirely unsurprised.	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	so the plan is, a) make new processor file as ascii art in emacs	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	2...	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	3) profit ?	[02:29]
asciilifeform	obligatory sp4mz0r1ng - http://www.molboxllc.com/products.html << gadget runs entirely sbcl	[02:29]
assbot	MolBox LLC	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	this sounds familiar.	[02:30]
asciilifeform	my ancient gadget.	[02:30]
asciilifeform	golden toilet driver.	[02:30]
*	MykelSIlver (~MykelSIlv@s51474ca2.adsl.online.nl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:30]
asciilifeform	~6k lines of cl.	[02:30]
mats_cd03	http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle	[02:30]
assbot	KNIFE FIGHTING	[02:30]
BingoBoingo	http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&type=submission&id=3947447 << Let's get Qntra on /.	[02:31]
assbot	US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot	[02:31]
asciilifeform	linked gadget runs on top of pedestrian gentoo on pedestrian x86.	[02:31]
BingoBoingo	http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm << i was taught to kill a man with a knife prison-style; reduce distance to <20ft for purpose of sprint (2 second rule: a man can travel 22ft/2s), clinch the neck or bear hug the man while stabbing at the heart with 45 degree angle << Seems to be the only way justifiable from a self defense standpoint	[02:31]
assbot	KNIFE FIGHTING	[02:31]
asciilifeform	- end of sp4mz0r1ng -	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 i think that only works on floor-shy victims neh ?	[02:31]
BingoBoingo	But heart is a hard target	[02:32]
BingoBoingo	literally, ribs	[02:32]
undata	BingoBoingo: probably hence the 45	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	thickasthieves: so he can go to forest and see if it's broken << lawl.	[02:33]
mats_cd03	mircea_popescu: yeah, victim could get on their back as a defense	[02:34]
mircea_popescu	victim could go down, take your feet from under you, have you fall on your own knife.	[02:34]
mircea_popescu	(you have a lot of forward mommentum running for the 22 feet in 2 s)	[02:34]
BingoBoingo	undata: Well you also have to consider, anatomically that mean focusing on their left side and trying to slot in between just the right ribs, vs left side just hitting anything open and soft hoping for the abdominal aorta	[02:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00080248 = 10.673 BTC [-] {2}	[02:35]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: (rampant memory leakage is not 'works') << it's not rampant. more like a calender than a ruptured pipe. it... sweats memory :D	[02:35]
*	ben_vulpes watches lispy robot video	[02:35]
*	ben_vulpes misses working with robots	[02:36]
asciilifeform	knife << obligatory << http://rutube.ru/video/844941cc31e4e50995af168afcf2052b/?ref=logo	[02:36]
assbot	Нож против пистолета. Реальная эффективность клинка на к... — смотреть онлайн видео, бесплатно!	[02:36]
asciilifeform	'knife against pistol. actual effectiveness of blade'	[02:37]
*	asciilifeform not specialist	[02:37]
mircea_popescu	bounce: did I get that about right? << "that bitcoin thing, aka some fiat nonsense trying to call itself bitcoin", rather than "this bitcoin thing" :)	[02:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform gotta love how it's "pistolette" in russian.	[02:37]
bounce	plenty people falling for the ruse though	[02:38]
*	bounce wonders what this executive chief sellout thinks of that open letter posted by a member on their own forum	[02:39]
mircea_popescu	cazalla: my god this hag of a wife, god must be punishing by introducing her to me before bitcoin << tell us your pain brothar. we're the relationship support cult, among other things.	[02:39]
*	BingoBoingo suspects Matonis actually despises the monster he helped nurture	[02:39]
mircea_popescu	bounce not his job to think.	[02:40]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo he goes through phases.	[02:40]
*	MykelSIlver has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[02:40]
BingoBoingo	Most people do, so has he had his period yet, or is he mourning starfish virginity?	[02:40]
asciilifeform	starfish period.	[02:41]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo originally he was all excited about derpfoundation. back then we were on speaking terms, so i told him he's nuts. he thought i was nuts. then he got all unexcited, and left. then he came back. now he's leaving.	[02:42]
*	mircea_popescu shrugs.	[02:42]
BingoBoingo	Seems to happen to a lot of the 2011-2012 Americans	[02:42]
mircea_popescu	you might remember all the huge tada in 2013 re putting a bunch of derps on the "press list" and excluding matonis, on the grounds that the derps were well versed in things from wikipedia practice or something	[02:42]
BingoBoingo	I remember	[02:43]
ben_vulpes	what the ever loving fuck is a press list and--nevermind.	[02:43]
asciilifeform	a press list...	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes you got it. about the time i threw my hands up too.	[02:44]
asciilifeform	... is a list of people who are to be pressed to death.	[02:44]
asciilifeform	!s kill file	[02:44]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Twas the list the Foundation herded Journos towards	[02:44]
assbot	1 results for 'kill file' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kill+file	[02:44]
asciilifeform	peine forte et dure.	[02:44]
mircea_popescu	PeterL: why would they do that? <<< because they're business school majors, and this means social studies, and this means they don't understand that words carry meaning.	[02:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00080436 = 3.7001 BTC [+]	[02:46]
ben_vulpes	ahhhh holy shit you guys i just bought a flipphone	[02:47]
ben_vulpes	prepaid minutes	[02:47]
ben_vulpes	it's got t9	[02:47]
ben_vulpes	I STILL GOT IT BABY	[02:47]
ben_vulpes	hammering out texts without even looking at the keypad	[02:47]
asciilifeform	how is this remarkable ?	[02:47]
mircea_popescu	assbot: The Inside Story Of Matt Taibbi's Departure From First Look Media - The Intercept <<< what they don't want to say is teh real scoop - "people heard about the qntra model and it killed anyone's will to life i nany competing project."	[02:47]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Who here prefers other phones?	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	me.	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	samsung, too cheap to even justify the paint to put a model number on it.	[02:48]
bounce	nokia 6310. needs new battery.	[02:49]
BingoBoingo	Seriously wireless cheapass cellphone, because what else is it for?	[02:49]
ben_vulpes	guys quit trollin.	[02:49]
ben_vulpes	i run an ios shop.	[02:49]
ben_vulpes	android too these days.	[02:49]
bounce	no seriously. had an e52 but it sucked so much I went back.	[02:49]
mircea_popescu	;;google samsung gt ?	[02:49]
gribble	GT-P3110 (GT-P3110TSEBTU) \| Support \| SAMSUNG UK: ; GT-E1190 \| SAMSUNG UAE: ; Galaxy S Duos 2 (GT-S7582ZKAMID) \| Support \| SAMSUNG Levant:	[02:49]
asciilifeform	http://savok.name/uploads/telefon/14.jpg << best phone	[02:49]
ben_vulpes	it's got bluetooth lol	[02:50]
ben_vulpes	dafuq am i going to do with bt	[02:50]
*	BingoBoingo needs to get a Western Electric for the return of dialup days	[02:50]
jurov	http://i.sme.sk/cdata/2/73/7381042/model-telefon-stropkov-r188-st.ir3-_t600.jpg	[02:50]
mircea_popescu	https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+gt-e1205q&complete=0&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch << that	[02:51]
assbot	samsung gt-e1205q - Google Search	[02:51]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes> dafuq am i going to do with bt pop the chip out?	[02:51]
jurov	^ sadly, never went into rpoduction	[02:51]
ben_vulpes	lg440g	[02:51]
ben_vulpes	that looks downright vaginal jurov	[02:51]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo lives in town with intact copper ?	[02:51]
*	asciilifeform doesn't	[02:52]
*	undata (~undata@trinque.org) has left #bitcoin-assets	[02:52]
kakobrekla	http://savok.name/uploads/telefon/14.jpg << best phone < fixed : http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5fr8mcDLl1rxnd64o1_1280.jpg	[02:52]
*	undata (~undata@trinque.org) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	it does look like pussy, jurov's phone...	[02:52]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: yours ?	[02:52]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Indeed. Used to be GTE, then Verizon, now Frontier or muni fiber	[02:52]
kakobrekla	there prolly one or two laying somewhere	[02:52]
kakobrekla	theres*	[02:53]
asciilifeform	not bakelite - not phone.	[02:53]
*	assbot gives voice to undata	[02:53]
mircea_popescu	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2810500/Kim-Kardashian-speaks-conference-giving-glimpse-family-avatars-Hollywood-game.html	[02:53]
assbot	Kim Kardashian turns tech guru as she speaks at Recode conference \| Daily Mail Online	[02:53]
asciilifeform	bt is actually useful in that, with a certain gizmo, lets you use 'real' phone	[02:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00080115 = 1.0415 BTC [-]	[02:54]
asciilifeform	like the soviet one	[02:54]
bounce	the samsung GT-E1107 is kinda cute except that the solar panel feature doesn't actually work very much at all.	[02:54]
bounce	also shittier sound quality than 6310. better battery life though, since newer.	[02:54]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Best video	[02:54]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815042/Suspected-cop-killer-Eric-Frein-leading-cops-seven-week-manhunt.html	[02:54]
assbot	BREAKING NEWS: Suspected cop-killer Eric Frein FOUND after leading cops on seven-week manhunt \| Daily Mail Online	[02:54]
bounce	seven weeks. does that resolve any bets?	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	hm.	[02:55]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform that phone is quite famous. like model m for keyboards i hear. was designed by some slovenian dude.	[02:55]
asciilifeform	aha	[02:56]
asciilifeform	forgot, who	[02:56]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Tube 5 is most important tube	[02:56]
kakobrekla	>It has been over 30 years since the distinguished Slovenian designer Davorin Savnik designed an Electronic Telephone Apparatus (ETA) 85 for Iskra. Beside the fact that it won numerous awards for design and that you can still see the phone being used today, the design got stolen and was a big hit in USA.	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	pretty cool	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit. <<< really, it's just a lot more inconsistent. meaning the scary stories are TRUELY scary.	[02:57]
mircea_popescu	pretty much the only thing us management has going for it generally is consistency anyway.	[02:58]
BingoBoingo	Which is broken when it comes to punishment	[02:58]
mircea_popescu	consistency has its own sort of hell, so it all depends.	[02:59]
mircea_popescu	;;google jennifer aniston in that retarded film with the flares	[02:59]
gribble	Jennifer Aniston said 'retard' and now everyone is mad at her: ; IMDb: Video disc collection - a list by Alan Poon: ; 2011 Movie Preview - Collider:	[02:59]
mats_cd03	lol	[02:59]
*	OX3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[03:00]
undata	how many years will I be waiting for a blockchain	[03:00]
asciilifeform	undata: mine went for ~8 hours until croaked.	[03:00]
BingoBoingo	undata: We don't measure time here with years. We use halvings and blockdepth	[03:00]
asciilifeform	your result will depend, at the least, on bandwidth.	[03:00]
undata	asciilifeform: I'll keep logs	[03:00]
ben_vulpes	and if unpatched - 0.5.3 will wedge at some large block.	[03:01]
*	go1111111 (~go@162.244.138.51) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes a good look as to specifically w	[03:01]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-10-2014#903928	[03:01]
assbot	Logged on 30-10-2014 18:53:30; assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.	[03:01]
mircea_popescu	WHY it wedges where is already gravy for our little project here.,	[03:01]
ben_vulpes	ah - asciilifeform which block number?	[03:01]
asciilifeform	^	[03:01]
ben_vulpes	ah ty	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000098/ << this chick;s career is really fucking sad.	[03:02]
assbot	Jennifer Aniston - IMDb	[03:02]
ben_vulpes	my 0.5.3 is down because xcode is a resource hog	[03:02]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i was gonna toss the toy os	[03:02]
*	asciilifeform wants no #ifdefs in book	[03:02]
*	asciilifeform could stomach if necessary for openbsd	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` you're not serious if you don't put #ifdef book : turn page on the cover.	[03:03]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: toss toss	[03:03]
ben_vulpes	i run litecoin (tee hee) in vm.	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	Terrible Operating System System ?	[03:03]
*	OX3 (~OX3@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:03]
ben_vulpes	is not buildable on TOYOS	[03:03]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Her career is sad because of the Sitcom curse. If one successfully does TV, the best they can hope for is to do Windows ads with Bill Gates as Seinfeld did.	[03:04]
*	asciilifeform has no idea who this is, but knows how gorbachev ended with 'pizza hut.'	[03:04]
ben_vulpes	nubbins`: needs endif on rear cover	[03:04]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo yeah looks like an inverted porn career. chick turns 17 and 11 months, does 170 featurs that year, then 50 the next and then 2 a year to pay rent til 65.	[03:04]
ben_vulpes	now this is an oddity	[03:04]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Pretty much how it goes.	[03:05]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform she's the sorta-fuckable cali blonde that tits-and-assgelina jolie massacred to get the mimbo at the time	[03:05]
BingoBoingo	On the plus side though B movies have never been this profitable ever in history thanks to netflix	[03:05]
mircea_popescu	i forget who his name is. played flock of seagulls in true romance	[03:05]
*	asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter	[03:05]
BingoBoingo	Ben Affleck, next Batman	[03:05]
ben_vulpes	252448 is 243.23046875 KB according to blockchain.info	[03:06]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform doesn't know who jolie is/was either, but no matter << Titless IRL Laura Croft	[03:06]
ben_vulpes	and 252450 243.0712890625 KB ibid	[03:06]
asciilifeform	incidentally, turd exhausts ram even if left to suffer in its attempt to fetch blocks	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://media.santabanta.com/newsite/newsmaker/images/angelina_jolie12.jpg basically.	[03:06]
*	ben_vulpes is desperate to see logs from that block, but must run own self.	[03:07]
*	asciilifeform deliberately did not yet post debug.log, to encourage folks to run on their own	[03:07]
ben_vulpes	oh i can tell	[03:07]
ben_vulpes	dickhead	[03:07]
asciilifeform	ehe.	[03:07]
ben_vulpes	t9 is a lost technology like lisp.	[03:08]
*	asciilifeform shoves crate of phones with t9	[03:08]
asciilifeform	some 'lost.'	[03:08]
BingoBoingo	lulz http://slashdot.org/submission/3947303/say-something-nice-about-systemd	[03:08]
assbot	Say Something Nice About systemd - Slashdot	[03:08]
ben_vulpes	kiddo to my right laughed at me when i started texting lady v - "how are you even going to -- whoaaaaa."	[03:08]
asciilifeform	somebody wake up diametric	[03:09]
asciilifeform	he likes systemd i think	[03:09]
BingoBoingo	Prolly Harry Poettering himself	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	he's not gonna pull a pankkake on us over it is he ?	[03:09]
asciilifeform	nah i think it enables laziness somehow	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	somehow ? how about "can't read the system logs no more!"	[03:09]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[03:09]
nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/gXXpVHE.jpg	[03:09]
BingoBoingo	!b 1	[03:10]
assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1W5SGHR.txt )	[03:10]
asciilifeform	he has something grunted together that works almost like real computer	[03:10]
ben_vulpes	nubbins`: what the fuck.	[03:10]
nubbins`	hahahah	[03:10]
asciilifeform	no idea how, when he wakes up perhaps will say	[03:10]
nubbins`	there are larger blocks than 252448 before it	[03:10]
nubbins`	sec	[03:10]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` which one is obama ?	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	i give up ?	[03:11]
asciilifeform	i suspect, though cannot say for certain, that there is nothing magic about 252448	[03:11]
nubbins`	https://blockchain.info/block-index/314817	[03:11]
assbot	Bitcoin Block #252445	[03:11]
asciilifeform	and that db caught obola at some point because ram exhausted	[03:11]
nubbins`	^ 252445, >340kb	[03:11]
asciilifeform	and never recovered	[03:11]
nubbins`	yeah i've suffered a couple chokes here but seems to be still downloading blocks	[03:12]
nubbins`	currently at 155369	[03:12]
*	OX3 has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	well the b onus of leaking software is that it's guaranteed to act impredictably at least some of the time	[03:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: also remember that there is no deterministic test of bitcoind, nor can there be	[03:12]
*	OX3_ (~OX3@cpc69058-oxfd26-2-0-cust984.4-3.cable.virginm.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:12]
asciilifeform	except, possibly, an elaborate network sim	[03:12]
asciilifeform	this has been done	[03:12]
ben_vulpes	this is actually a thing that i am working on.	[03:13]
asciilifeform	when i was dabbling in '07 with my not-bitcoin-that-shall-not-be-spoken-of - i used one.	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	of the whole thing ? no. of parts of the whole thing ?	[03:13]
asciilifeform	parts - yes.	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	this'd seem a part.	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	ianap	[03:13]
ben_vulpes	not being cpp competent, a useful thing for me to do is write a bash btc harness that points bitcoinds at each other for mining, tx validation, broadcast, etc.	[03:13]
*	assbot gives voice to Luke-Jr	[03:14]
ben_vulpes	harkens back to my work with robots at one point.	[03:14]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: this will not test behaviour with ill-behaved nodes.	[03:14]
Luke-Jr	kakobrekla: do I need to ban you from the wiki, or will you respect alphabetical order on the Gambling list from now on?	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller listen, you ever got that cookieshop thing off the ground ? actually deliering ?	[03:14]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: this can test behavior with ill-behaved nodes.	[03:15]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: yes. but you have to create the ill-behaved nodes.	[03:15]
ben_vulpes	what, am i to expect my test harness to sprout warts spontaneously?	[03:15]
asciilifeform	have to simulate various classes of evil node	[03:15]
ben_vulpes	i know that i'm a barbarian but i'm more of a Sven than a Hulk.	[03:15]
asciilifeform	and hope you've imagined all possible universes.	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	clearly impossible.	[03:16]
asciilifeform	or - realize that testing doesn't actually work.	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	what is "work"	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	testing answers specific questions.	[03:16]
asciilifeform	aha.	[03:16]
BingoBoingo	Luke-Jr: People still use wiki?	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	in the notion of testing with which I am familiar at least.	[03:16]
ben_vulpes	what these software cultists do -- has no bearing.	[03:17]
ben_vulpes	test, collect data, cogitate.	[03:17]
ben_vulpes	repeat.	[03:17]
*	OX3_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[03:17]
ben_vulpes	this is an arduous process.	[03:17]
ben_vulpes	as your robot attests to.	[03:17]
nubbins`	there's a wiki?	[03:17]
undata	there's something beautiful about downloading the blockchain	[03:17]
mircea_popescu	will kako's trolling wonders never cease ?	[03:17]
nubbins`	undata o.O	[03:18]
undata	sitting back while history replays at high speed	[03:18]
asciilifeform	aha.	[03:18]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: The bitcoin.it thing Gox turned over to Thermos	[03:18]
nubbins`	y'know, i've got a newspaper for sale...	[03:18]
ben_vulpes	> 36983pankkake13luke-jr2014-10-20 18:03:571Technically competent	[03:18]
nubbins`	BingoBoingo, i kid ;/	[03:18]
asciilifeform	i had it scroll to terminal for a spell	[03:18]
asciilifeform	and thought various thoughts.	[03:18]
kakobrekla	Luke-Jr ah didnt know it was alphabetical. i thought dicks come first.	[03:18]
asciilifeform	'aha, block xxxxx, this is when i tried mining on fpga'	[03:18]
asciilifeform	etc	[03:18]
kakobrekla	Luke-Jr will respect you authoritah on the wiki.	[03:18]
BingoBoingo	!n 3	[03:18]
undata	nubbins`: a global permanent record of anything you like; your newspaper can suck it.	[03:19]
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asciilifeform	'this here's the block where i stuffed $redacted'	[03:19]
ben_vulpes	undata: tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log	[03:19]
undata	ben_vulpes: am!	[03:19]
asciilifeform	'and this here's where $alsoredacted lives'	[03:19]
BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: Sounds like you need a domain redirecting to BitBet such as aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaBitbet.su	[03:20]
kakobrekla	lets when	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so you're the guy that put child pronz in the block ?	[03:20]
asciilifeform	better	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	what could be better.	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	bureaucrat pronz ?	[03:21]
asciilifeform	'the secret of being a bore is to tell all'	[03:22]
nubbins`	insurance.aes	[03:22]
BingoBoingo	!b 5	[03:22]
assbot	Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04506QN.txt )	[03:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00080104 = 4.0453 BTC [-]	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ?	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	hey, good predictive power in your semantic structure.	[03:24]
*	asciilifeform not specialist	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	the secret to being a store is to keep all...	[03:25]
asciilifeform	blame voltaire, he, afaik, coughed that one up	[03:25]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform and therefore the secret to being a whore is to fuck all ? << No, secret to being a whore is to be firm on prices.	[03:25]
mircea_popescu	the secret to being a core is to leak all...	[03:25]
undata	the secret to being a whore is to fuck all	[03:25]
nubbins`	leak all the memories	[03:25]
BingoBoingo	Well, yeah, core memory is super tempestable	[03:25]
asciilifeform	the secret of being a war...	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	r-r-r-r-rhymebreaker!	[03:26]
asciilifeform	my grandfather worked on a hydraulic computer. memory literally leaked.	[03:26]
mircea_popescu	not through software fault	[03:26]
asciilifeform	hard to be certain	[03:27]
BingoBoingo	Hardware breaks first!	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	lol that hard :D	[03:27]
undata	asciilifeform: http://gizmodo.com/5879106/the-russian-computer-that-ran-on-water ?	[03:27]
assbot	The Russian Computer That Ran On Water	[03:27]
asciilifeform	no. smaller thing, his own	[03:27]
asciilifeform	not historically notable, afaik.	[03:27]
mircea_popescu	"also ran on beer"	[03:27]
asciilifeform	http://www.blastr.com/sites/blastr/files/images/BenderBeer051811.jpg	[03:29]
nubbins`	i made cheese beer bread today	[03:29]
nubbins`	so yum	[03:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00080197 = 8.6212 BTC [+] {2}	[03:33]
undata	mircea_popescu: regarding db, would you loathe sqlite?	[03:35]
undata	those can get pretty massive and still do well	[03:35]
asciilifeform	undata: i'd like zero library deps.	[03:35]
mircea_popescu	undata i wouldn't loathe anything	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	it's all the other haters one gotta worry about	[03:36]
BingoBoingo	Bitcoin's not going anywhere, if you are going to introduce a dependency for storage why not just leap to ZFS?	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo asciilifeform was talking of a whole fs.	[03:36]
Luke-Jr	kakobrekla: thanks	[03:36]
asciilifeform	result should be ROMable on a 486.	[03:36]
undata	well, you'll otherwise reinvent acid and whatnot yourself	[03:36]
undata	which is fine	[03:36]
undata	but that should be the goal then	[03:36]
Luke-Jr	kakobrekla: anything we can do to make it clearer? there should have been a comment at the top explaining	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	now the advantage to an actual fs is that since you know your blocks wil be 1mb tops, you can actually make the sectors 1mb size.	[03:37]
asciilifeform	^	[03:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu has his thinking helmet on!	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually i just had my finger in the right cunt.	[03:37]
nubbins`	right on	[03:37]
kakobrekla	Luke-Jr maybe its just common sense, that i lack of.	[03:37]
asciilifeform	also wurks.	[03:37]
Luke-Jr	kakobrekla: heh, well, the whole reason for that policy was because people kept fighting over order/positioning on that page XD	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	tho honestly i am not convinced a fs is less work than a byodb hook	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	maybe much sexier, i dunno.	[03:38]
asciilifeform	it isn't less.	[03:38]
nubbins`	running stock 0.5.3 is less work ;)	[03:38]
asciilifeform	yes, because doesn't work.	[03:38]
BingoBoingo	FFS can take you up to 2 TB	[03:38]
kakobrekla	Luke-Jr let us fight. we will see who the better coder is.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	Luke-Jr from experince, nothing short of a site random display will solv that problem	[03:39]
kakobrekla	anyway, brb	[03:39]
Luke-Jr	kakobrekla: O.o	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	people will start registering 1something domains link them to their main site	[03:39]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: well, that's why we go based on the main site name, not the domain	[03:39]
kakobrekla	mircea_popescu let them do 1. ill start with 0.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	i guess.	[03:40]
kakobrekla	so we rename bitbet to 0bet	[03:40]
nubbins`	A-1 Betting Inc.	[03:40]
Luke-Jr	randomising might work if that gets abused, but that takes effort	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	000losses.betsite.biz	[03:40]
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nubbins`	heh	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	Luke-Jr i'd think randomising entries less effort than policing "main domain name" rules, but anyway, no idea wtf this even is so.	[03:41]
*	asciilifeform read that useless piece re: herr omidyar, kept waiting for it to mention his specialty as no. 1 hoarder and withholder of snowden turd. then saw that article is by 'greenwald, poitras, ...'	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	dun mind me.	[03:41]
nubbins`	_youraddictionbyplacinganotherbet.us	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform myeah. encouraging how clearly you can see right through their bs.	[03:41]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: If it were only a management dispute why would I link it?	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	apparently one doesn't need a politix degree.	[03:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: a retarded 5yo can see clean through it	[03:42]
Luke-Jr	mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it's my expectation of 5yos, yes, but recently they make broken ones or something.	[03:42]
kakobrekla	Luke-Jr good call! :)	[03:42]
asciilifeform	modern world amazes with its ability to manufacture broken.	[03:42]
asciilifeform	!s flashlight crash	[03:42]
assbot	1 results for 'flashlight crash' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=flashlight+crash	[03:42]
Luke-Jr	http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Random looks useful	[03:42]
assbot	Extension:Random - MediaWiki	[03:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00079632 = 2.9464 BTC [-] {2}	[03:42]
undata	asciilifeform: how else were they supposed to hotfix it later?	[03:43]
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asciilifeform	lol	[03:44]
undata	asciilifeform: though there's the risk of a bad flash	[03:44]
asciilifeform	undata: afaik it was a mask rom.	[03:44]
undata	then my joke is dead to me	[03:45]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: crab bus << reminds me of my consulting partner's tale of the rat temple in his home town	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform of course you realise with 1mb sectors the current size of the charade would be 30+ gb.	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	ie, 3x what it is.	[03:47]
asciilifeform	they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/for-capitalism/ << i forgot to link this	[03:47]
assbot	For Capitalism! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[03:47]
asciilifeform	30+gb << 40gB was the turd upon croaking	[03:47]
asciilifeform	that is, with 2/3 finished blockchain	[03:47]
BingoBoingo	they get milk dishes, but will happily nibble on the toes of the maths students who visit << What, no warfarin in the milk?	[03:47]
asciilifeform	nein	[03:47]
asciilifeform	rats - holy.	[03:48]
BingoBoingo	But dumber than mice	[03:48]
BingoBoingo	Though more organized	[03:48]
asciilifeform	http://www.lovethesepics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/pampered-rats-at-rat-temple.jpg	[03:48]
asciilifeform	http://lh3.ggpht.com/-8kIGkSd5HlY/UFdBJkTZo-I/AAAAAAAAdLQ/oGTBToZyGR8/karni-mata-temple-6%25255B2%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i missed a zero baby.	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 327763 / 1024	[03:49]
gribble	320.081054688	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	320 gb	[03:49]
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asciilifeform	disk longa, vita brevis	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	it'll be a tough sell.	[03:49]
asciilifeform	can compress below fs layer, realize	[03:49]
asciilifeform	a la 'doublespace.'	[03:49]
asciilifeform	if only basic rll	[03:50]
asciilifeform	(run length encode)	[03:50]
asciilifeform	no need to ever store a mb of zero	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	if anyone is a hdd afficionado, do some math as to what gain in speed justifies a 5x gain in file size ? at current and/or historical price per speed and price per size.	[03:50]
asciilifeform	again, compress.	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if you compress below fs layer then the fixed blocks thing is kinda a meh idea.	[03:51]
asciilifeform	sufficiently smart fs will compact runs.	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	do you even have a candidate for pillaging in mind or wtf fs is even trustworthy	[03:52]
asciilifeform	when i said fs,	[03:52]
asciilifeform	meant - fs crafted for the occasion.	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	what, all new code ?	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	gtfo.	[03:52]
asciilifeform	aha.	[03:52]
BingoBoingo	!b 3	[03:52]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0QAFFAK.txt )	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	rewriting bitcoin is one thing. writing a new fs is a fucking dumb idea.	[03:52]
asciilifeform	blockchain gets a block device.	[03:53]
BingoBoingo	What's wrong with FFS? ... In one of its hundreds of incarnations...	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	there is no way you can do anything novel and useful in terms of fs.	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	either one or the other. not both.	[03:53]
asciilifeform	existing fs are built to be 'all things to all people'	[03:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00079592 = 4.1388 BTC [-]	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform so what, only support s.nsa produced hard drives ?	[03:54]
asciilifeform	nein	[03:54]
asciilifeform	just, normal lba drives.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	so who are you going to steal the hardware drivers from	[03:54]
asciilifeform	what drivers.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	maybe i don't iunderstand what you mean by "make own fs" and "bare metal" in that order.	[03:55]
asciilifeform	if we're talking about a metal port, i'd use my pio hdd driver (about 1k asm)	[03:55]
asciilifeform	works on every machine i own.	[03:55]
asciilifeform	a purist - can use x86 bios 'int 13' block routine. (slower)	[03:55]
asciilifeform	if we're talking about a humbler turd that runs on unix, it'd take /dev/sdwhateverthefuck'	[03:56]
asciilifeform	and crap directly therein.	[03:56]
*	mircea_popescu is in over his head in this discussion.	[03:56]
asciilifeform	('metal port' being a hypothetical 'bitcoind' that boots up as x86 os)	[03:57]
asciilifeform	('pio' - programmed i/o, mode of using standard 'ata' without dma. used by simple schoolboy operating systems for x86)	[03:57]
asciilifeform	('int 13' - traditional x86 bios interrupt function which exists to this day, used by most os boot loaders to fetch kernel from disk)	[03:58]
asciilifeform	controller-agnostic.	[03:58]
-NickServ-	mircea_popescu1!~Mircea@190.244.220.16 has just authenticated as you (mircea_popescu)	[03:59]
-NickServ-	mircea_popescu1!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu has released your nickname.	[03:59]
*	You are now known as Guest85595	[03:59]
asciilifeform	/dev/sdX - raw block device present on all unix systems, represents a block device - e.g., hard disk - as a sequence of blocks of N (usually 512) bytes	[03:59]
*	mircea_popescu (~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:59]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[03:59]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[03:59]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[03:59]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[03:59]
asciilifeform	on ancient boxes with parallel 'ata' - /dev/hdX	[03:59]
asciilifeform	on ancient boxes with parallel 'ata' - /dev/hdX	[03:59]
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*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[04:00]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[04:00]
*	BingoBoingo will now drop that http://datarecovery.com/about/ has been seeking russian speakers to operate "PC 9000" hard drive firmaware tool since I part timed there in 2004.	[04:01]
*	BingoBoingo will now drop that http://datarecovery.com/about/ has been seeking russian speakers to operate "PC 9000" hard drive firmaware tool since I part timed there in 2004.	[04:01]
assbot	About \| Datarecovery.com	[04:01]
assbot	About \| Datarecovery.com	[04:01]
asciilifeform	lol!	[04:01]
asciilifeform	lol!	[04:01]
asciilifeform	even now?!	[04:01]
asciilifeform	even now?!	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	jejeje	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	jejeje	[04:01]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers	[04:02]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Last I checked. They opened the Toronto lab entirely for recruiting russian speakers	[04:02]
*	BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka	[04:03]
*	BingoBoingo remembers being paid dor a tape cataloguing job one summer partially in vodka	[04:03]
*	BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd	[04:03]
*	BingoBoingo disappointed they redesigned their website into a js turd	[04:03]
asciilifeform	http://pastebin.com/CugtJUXt << int 13	[04:05]
asciilifeform	http://pastebin.com/CugtJUXt << int 13	[04:05]
assbot	[ASM (NASM)] int 13 - Pastebin.com	[04:05]
assbot	[ASM (NASM)] int 13 - Pastebin.com	[04:05]
BingoBoingo	Oh noes http://slashdot.org/submission/3947447/us-company-seeks-to-offer-regulator-approved-bitcoin-options-market is down to blue	[04:05]
BingoBoingo	Oh noes http://slashdot.org/submission/3947447/us-company-seeks-to-offer-regulator-approved-bitcoin-options-market is down to blue	[04:05]
assbot	US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot	[04:05]
assbot	US Company Seeks to offer Regulator Approved Bitcoin Options Market - Slashdot	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	is that a good thing ?	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	is that a good thing ?	[04:06]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: remember the fella who booted linux on dead 'seagate' pcbs ?	[04:06]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: remember the fella who booted linux on dead 'seagate' pcbs ?	[04:06]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: afaik he did it by reversing ye olde 'pc 9000'	[04:07]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: afaik he did it by reversing ye olde 'pc 9000'	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Bad thing	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Bad thing	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I do indeed	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I do indeed	[04:07]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: seeking russian speakers to operate << srsly, operate, not translate ?	[04:11]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: seeking russian speakers to operate << srsly, operate, not translate ?	[04:11]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_BeGDkNRtA << non-obligatory, but goes with the theme	[04:12]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_BeGDkNRtA << non-obligatory, but goes with the theme	[04:12]
assbot	Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube	[04:12]
assbot	Bach - Little Fugue on Eight Floppy Drives - YouTube	[04:12]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off.	[04:12]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Maybe both. Maybe they have a new firmware tool? They really wanted operators though because PC 9000 kept pissing Ben off.	[04:12]
asciilifeform	(theme of block devices...)	[04:13]
asciilifeform	(theme of block devices...)	[04:13]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy	[04:15]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: As far as the history of that firm goes though he did start out though as an audio/speaker guy	[04:15]
asciilifeform	probably began by driving ancient hdd 'voice coils' directly with his amps...	[04:15]
asciilifeform	probably began by driving ancient hdd 'voice coils' directly with his amps...	[04:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+]	[04:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2742 @ 0.00079762 = 2.1871 BTC [+]	[04:18]
BingoBoingo	Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology	[04:19]
BingoBoingo	Began by doing work setting up for various "bands" and saying technology and finding out people were approaching him with dead hard drives because he said technology	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	http://33.media.tumblr.com/019c4f744bdafc23d8eaecd88aeb4ac7/tumblr_mtsv9elrCH1swtr5so1_500.gif << speaking of turds and all that.	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	http://33.media.tumblr.com/019c4f744bdafc23d8eaecd88aeb4ac7/tumblr_mtsv9elrCH1swtr5so1_500.gif << speaking of turds and all that.	[04:19]
asciilifeform	she must've cleaned the last throne with eyes.	[04:20]
asciilifeform	she must've cleaned the last throne with eyes.	[04:20]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	1k eyeballs right ?	[04:26]
asciilifeform	1m!	[04:26]
asciilifeform	them.	[04:26]
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nubbins`	downloading the blockchain is slooooow.	[04:49]
BingoBoingo	nubbins`: The indexing is slower.	[04:49]
nubbins`	i'll bet	[04:49]
nubbins`	running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it?	[04:50]
nubbins`	i've got a paltry gb allocated now	[04:50]
asciilifeform	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKuatNrLHLY << with english translation in 'show more' box	[04:51]
assbot	17 Moments of Spring - Gde-To Daleko (Somewhere Far Away) HQ - YouTube	[04:51]
asciilifeform	(re: 'go into forest')	[04:51]
mats_cd03	mircea_popescu: i retched	[04:52]
nubbins`	dignork thanks, good tip	[04:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00079905 = 8.1503 BTC [+]	[05:02]
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nubbins`	no sweat	[05:04]
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assbot	Testnet - Bitcoin	[05:07]
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kakobrekla	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5sUIa1wXKk	[05:09]
assbot	Butnskala - Lisice - YouTube	[05:09]
kakobrekla	(relevant to ebola)	[05:10]
*	jacoblyles has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[05:11]
BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: Also Futbol Americano	[05:16]
BingoBoingo	Going off of the concusion leap	[05:17]
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*	yoloshill is now known as overshill	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	running this in a vm, worth throwing extra ram at it? <<< yes, up to 16gb markedly helps	[05:25]
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BingoBoingo	So I'm pricing used workstations. All of the opteron based stuff in the past 6 years is pretty equivalent, yes?	[05:26]
*	BingoBoingo asks because this beauty? Under $300? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sun-Ultra-40-2xDual-Core-2-4GHz-16gb-1x250GB-Quadro-FX-4500-DVD-4xAvailable-/151458445675?pt=US_Thin_Clients&hash=item2343a0796b	[05:29]
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assbot	Sun Ultra 40 2XDUAL Core 2 4GHz 16GB 1X250GB Quadro FX 4500 DVD 4XAVAILABLE \| eBay	[05:29]
BingoBoingo	http://slashdot.org/submission/3947571/do-you-know-the-three-main-causes-of-prostatitis-for-teenagers	[05:29]
assbot	Do you know the three main causes of prostatitis for teenagers - Slashdot	[05:29]
BingoBoingo	Holy shit!!! Who do people even buy new computers? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Precision-690-10-Pack-2-x-DCX-2-66Ghz-4GB-667Mhz-146GB-15K-7-Pro/120625143566?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D777000%26algo%3DABA.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D27538%26meid%3D06f913a9ae9b4c19bbef119b93c13ee7%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D11353%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26	[05:34]
assbot	Precision 690 10 Pack 2 x DCX 2 66GHz 4GB 667MHz 146GB 15K 7 Pro \| eBay	[05:34]
kakobrekla	10 pack lol	[05:35]
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BingoBoingo	I know!	[05:41]
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BingoBoingo	I could start a university computer lab with that shit	[05:41]
BingoBoingo	Right after I buy/conquer a university	[05:42]
mod6	the fs idea is sexy, and indeed ufs2 w/soft updates would be probably best, which is default for everything post fbsd 5 iirc.	[05:43]
mats_cd03	BingoBoingo: youre tempting me to buy a workstation of my own	[05:44]
mod6	but sounds like we're getting into RE-ENGINEER ALL THE THINGS if we start to not trust whatever is already out there	[05:44]
*	mats_cd03 browses craigslist	[05:44]
BingoBoingo	mats_cd03: I have wanted ECC ram for about a decade now, but never pulled the trigger on it	[05:44]
mats_cd03	i was under the impression most motherboards support ECC and non-ECC	[05:46]
asciilifeform	mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device.	[05:46]
BingoBoingo	mats_cd03: From what I understand ECC is still a luxury sold to the discerning which the "cloud" is trying to handwave over	[05:48]
asciilifeform	mats_cd03: no	[05:48]
mats_cd03	hm.	[05:48]
asciilifeform	ecc with amd cpu - almost impossible to obtain now. ecc on intel - on high-end 'xeon' boards.	[05:49]
mod6	asciilifeform: perhaps. i worry that we're all of the sudden going to fork *bsd and make mpexos	[05:49]
BingoBoingo	mod6: I prefer the term Stanix	[05:49]
mod6	heheh	[05:49]
mod6	not bad :]	[05:49]
BingoBoingo	Now that people are finally reading GNU utils I imagine split will be from OpenBSD 5.X -current	[05:50]
*	asciilifeform innocent of ab initio unixen, other than as school homework	[05:50]
*	asciilifeform would like to stay that way	[05:50]
BingoBoingo	Well, real Unix exists... in Textbooks	[05:51]
mod6	do you mean 'real' as in systemv?	[05:51]
BingoBoingo	mod6: Real as in... before system*	[05:51]
*	asciilifeform downed pilot not worm connoisseur	[05:52]
BingoBoingo	back when it was version*	[05:52]
*	asciilifeform swears by 'unix hater's handbook'	[05:52]
*	BingoBoingo has several coppies	[05:52]
BingoBoingo	My domicile was slow rolled by the local 5-0 about half an our ago so mzt misssspelt words	[05:53]
*	asciilifeform had to look up most of above to make any sense	[05:54]
mod6	so, since we're talking about it, what would be the most idea env for such a reference implentation? a fully stripped openbsd with a custom fs & drivers?	[05:54]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16432 @ 0.00079592 = 13.0786 BTC [-]	[05:55]
*	BingoBoingo really wants the disorderly conduct case to fucking end	[05:55]
BingoBoingo	mod6: OpenBSD on its own is prolly hostile enough to dev in	[05:55]
asciilifeform	mod6: custom fs doesn't require an os-level turd, just a raw block device that the process is permitted to r/w.	[05:55]
mod6	s/openbsd/*bsd	[05:55]
asciilifeform	mod6: idea being, among other merits, that in the future shedding the os entirely will be considerably easier.	[05:56]
mod6	so you wouldn't say, want to strip kern mods out or whatever?	[05:56]
mod6	what about wintel eth drivers?	[05:56]
asciilifeform	that's a separate work	[05:56]
mod6	what about like 69000 other things?	[05:56]
asciilifeform	what other things?	[05:56]
BingoBoingo	What ken mods? OpenBSD offers two kernels bsd and bsd.mp, if you want more fuck you	[05:56]
asciilifeform	the only devices a hypothetical bitcoin x86 os needs to comprehend is disk and nic	[05:57]
asciilifeform	disk - see example posted earlier (< 1 kb asm)	[05:57]
mod6	eh..nm	[05:57]
asciilifeform	nic - similar. see example in 'bare metal os' (bsd license, iirc)	[05:58]
*	asciilifeform just wanted a fucking book	[05:58]
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BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Problem is book has wants too	[05:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00079592 = 5.7306 BTC [-]	[05:59]
asciilifeform	'first the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then the drink takes the man'	[05:59]
asciilifeform	(jp?)	[05:59]
BingoBoingo	Indeeds	[05:59]
BingoBoingo	Prolly universal	[06:00]
asciilifeform	one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) seems to comprehend is that bitcoin is, what old timers call - 'safety critical code'	[06:00]
asciilifeform	as in, would you want a multithreaded os like unix on, e.g., pacemaker ?	[06:01]
asciilifeform	safety critical means not always death, but wors	[06:01]
asciilifeform	e	[06:01]
BingoBoingo	Actually... in cariac replacement parts, mechanical failures tend to kill first.	[06:01]
asciilifeform	like, your whole reich goes down	[06:01]
BingoBoingo	like dad's brave little plastic aortic valve	[06:02]
BingoBoingo	But... a *nix pacemaker still scares moar	[06:03]
asciilifeform	we all wear out. plastic or meat.	[06:03]
asciilifeform	but software - doesn't.	[06:03]
BingoBoingo	True	[06:03]
asciilifeform	it works - or not.	[06:03]
BingoBoingo	Code does what it is, without regard for the underlying	[06:03]
kakobrekla	you can skip the first option.	[06:03]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> like, your whole reich goes down << wouldn't it be grand to have a spec so people can use that to build their own compliant reference implementation?	[06:04]
asciilifeform	mod6: you can probably download most of the info necessary to build a vintage mercedes benz.	[06:04]
asciilifeform	will you build ?	[06:04]
asciilifeform	or 'tiger' tank.	[06:05]
asciilifeform	butbut... the spec's right here!	[06:05]
BingoBoingo	!s nuclear power	[06:06]
assbot	32 results for 'nuclear power' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nuclear+power	[06:06]
mod6	im pretty sure that im not smart enough for this conversation	[06:06]
BingoBoingo	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-10-2014#885592	[06:06]
assbot	Logged on 21-10-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: a datacenter that can't be diddled from a safe distance is also called 'a nuclear power'	[06:06]
mod6	what I mean is, if your worried about everyone running the same code, 'safety critical code' wouldn't it be good to have some diversity of systems, and decentralized	[06:07]
asciilifeform	diversity of systems << idiocy	[06:07]
asciilifeform	idiocy we suffer from as a consequence of having microshit on our planet	[06:07]
asciilifeform	like a gigantic black hole that warps spacetime around it into strange shapes.	[06:07]
mod6	you want to force people to use only one version of code?	[06:07]
mod6	including os?	[06:08]
asciilifeform	who forces you to use arabic numerals?	[06:08]
asciilifeform	you could use, for example, chinese ones	[06:08]
asciilifeform	why not?	[06:08]
asciilifeform	mod6: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=305 << my essay on subject	[06:08]
assbot	Loper OS » The Five Types of Technological Standard	[06:08]
mod6	i don't think the question is why, it's how.	[06:09]
asciilifeform	i'd like to aim for type no. 2 here.	[06:09]
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asciilifeform	my point earlier was not that dr. evil should force everyone somehow to use similar $widget, but that the whole 'monoculture is bad' concept exists in the popular mind solely because of microshit.	[06:10]
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mod6	do you think that all the root servers should use the same code & os?	[06:10]
asciilifeform	i don't much care about 'shoulds'	[06:10]
mod6	well, they dont, for good reason	[06:11]
asciilifeform	but that, if software is written correctly, it does not matter if an entire galaxy runs same.	[06:11]
asciilifeform	no one gets to pwn it	[06:11]
mod6	there is no correctly.	[06:11]
asciilifeform	because mathematically impossible.	[06:11]
mod6	there is only better or best.	[06:11]
kakobrekla	there is only non working code atm so stfu.	[06:11]
asciilifeform	better or best << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901470	[06:12]
assbot	Logged on 29-10-2014 04:35:44; asciilifeform: 'suppose every program can be shortened by a line, and contains a bug. therefore all programs can be reduced to one line - which does not work.' - ???	[06:12]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla has it.	[06:12]
asciilifeform	except right now we've a few 10k of lines which do not work.	[06:12]
asciilifeform	room for improvement.	[06:12]
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*	BingoBoingo wonders if Well written bitcoind compatible turd will be larger than blockchain itself	[06:14]
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asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: wat ?	[06:15]
asciilifeform	well written == operates correctly + fits in head.	[06:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10056 @ 0.00079582 = 8.0028 BTC [-] {2}	[06:15]
asciilifeform	not fits in head - ipso facto not well written	[06:15]
asciilifeform	regardless of what else it does.	[06:15]
BingoBoingo	I'm just thinking about the first, operates "correctly"	[06:15]
asciilifeform	incidentally	[06:16]
asciilifeform	until such is written, we will not actually know if bitcoin works.	[06:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7944 @ 0.00079428 = 6.3098 BTC [-]	[06:16]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[06:16]
asciilifeform	therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here.	[06:16]
BingoBoingo	Eh, all that mean is lite/dark coin is still moar fucked	[06:16]
asciilifeform	i can't guarantee that anyone will especially like the answer, if an answer were ever to appear.	[06:17]
asciilifeform	i should also point out that 'fits in head' does not mean yours and mine, necessarily. there are many different heads.	[06:18]
asciilifeform	back to above, the gods loving a joke, perhaps this is how we find out that p==np.	[06:19]
asciilifeform	but i digress.	[06:19]
*	asciilifeform to bed	[06:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00079088 = 9.0951 BTC [-] {2}	[06:21]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4537 @ 0.00079006 = 3.5845 BTC [-]	[06:29]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[06:29]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 343.8, vol: 14300.96413830 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 342.997, vol: 8307.59393 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 342.5, vol: 56448.03593215 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 341.950176, vol: 87619.21790000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 344.29, vol: 7.57445171 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 344.595249, vol: 88.37658032 \| Volume-weighted last average: 342.348557744	[06:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.0007241 = 3.3671 BTC [-]	[07:12]
BingoBoingo	OMG they are learning!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDSMwnzGvc4	[07:14]
assbot	Happy Halloween! \| Squirrel Carves Pumpkin - YouTube	[07:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00073345 = 5.3542 BTC [+]	[07:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0007354 = 2.2797 BTC [+]	[07:42]
BingoBoingo	!mpif	[07:43]
assbot	BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021818 B (Total: 477.11 B). Delta: -0.38 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]	[07:43]
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*	assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	"You misunderstand my goals. My goal with 0.5.3 is not to produce a high quality implementation of the bitcoin protocol from Satoshi’s work (people interested in such should take a dependency on software that’s actually rigorously tested like the Conformal codebase. Comparing the tests for any version of the Satoshi codebase with the Conformal implementation is like comparing the tests of a first-year Ruby web de	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	veloper using Selenium to exercise his hand-cobbled JavaScript to those of Netflix and their Chaos Gorilla), but to distill the reference implementation into something that can fit in a single human’s head and rip out braindamaged code-arson like the moronic “wallets” and their change behavior."	[07:50]
mircea_popescu	see, ben_vulpes is the right guy for the foundation job. clearly.	[07:51]
ben_vulpes	what no no don't say that	[07:51]
*	joecool has quit (Disconnected by services)	[07:51]
mircea_popescu	tis true nigga.	[07:52]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell pete_dushenski seems your blog ate out my coment. this is like rape.	[07:52]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[07:52]
ben_vulpes	also asciilifeform you want this to move at f1 speed	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	and we're working with a rusted model-t.	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	i appreciate your flair for the dramatic but lol chilllllll frere.	[07:54]
ben_vulpes	dear client	[07:57]
ben_vulpes	i understand that you've made commitments that your contract with us does not support.	[07:58]
ben_vulpes	here are your options:	[07:58]
ben_vulpes	a) let the contract terminate, accept our sw in its current state, shit your pants, blow your demo.	[07:58]
ben_vulpes	b) retain us through the demo day, and let us work with your technical team to do the best we can (all we've ever promised) to make you look good for your next big relationship.	[07:58]
ben_vulpes	c) retain us to do b) and also ship kickass native semantic apis on both platforms.	[07:59]
ben_vulpes	shrug	[07:59]
ben_vulpes	whatchagonnado.	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	dumb.	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	dear client, here is our contract and here is our previous agreement. if you would like to modify either, please forward me the required modifications and i will send you the corresponding quote.	[08:04]
ben_vulpes	well, contract expires monday.	[08:07]
ben_vulpes	client is shitting pants and needs giving a way out.	[08:07]
ben_vulpes	i swear half what i do is herd cats and the other half is tell clients what the fuck to do.	[08:07]
mircea_popescu	yours is passive-aggrrssive whiny bullshit.	[08:07]
mircea_popescu	i'd can you just for that.	[08:07]
ben_vulpes	oh well there's a "here's what you should do" section as well.	[08:08]
mircea_popescu	then maybe leave just that and appear all friendzoned-and-happy-about-it	[08:08]
ben_vulpes	hm.	[08:08]
ben_vulpes	next time mebbe.	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	in any case the part you quoted is bad voodoo, and you know that's what it is.	[08:09]
ben_vulpes	that's not a quote.	[08:09]
ben_vulpes	that's a rant.	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	a then nm me	[08:09]
ben_vulpes	hahahahahahahahaha	[08:09]
ben_vulpes	i mean i'm a novice for sure	[08:09]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck is one to know lol, you come in here with your pseudoquotes and pseudocode and etc :D	[08:09]
ben_vulpes	i actually want these guys to do well. they've apparently fallen into an infinite buy wall for what they do.	[08:10]
mircea_popescu	so then be all dumpy naive, in the worst case they end up relying on you.	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	in the best case they're actually managed by sane people and you get paid.	[08:11]
ben_vulpes	i did get a sane guy on the phone today.	[08:11]
ben_vulpes	that was nice.	[08:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: mod6: idea was, blockchain, as potentially the majority user of future hdd space on planet, deserves own (ab initio) scheme of mapping to block device. <<< this is actually a solid point	[08:12]
ben_vulpes	dev anarchy over there, i tell you.	[08:12]
mircea_popescu	tho you know how this shit flows, people who are sane get talked over by various locally optimizing idiots who know better	[08:12]
mircea_popescu	then we end up with the engine misplaced for 150 fucking years.	[08:12]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: well, that's part of why the comment states upfront you'll just get banned first time if you screw with the order - I just noticed kakobrekla's name so decided it'd be better to talk to him here first instead :p << dig the power of the wot	[08:13]
ben_vulpes	wot > wiki	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes you're not about to blame a guy for being nice are you ?	[08:13]
ben_vulpes	it's culty.	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	not trustworthy.	[08:14]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: How many customers deep does this go?	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	anti-wikitarian	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: someone cutting check for dev services.	[08:14]
ben_vulpes	checks, ideally.	[08:14]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo: mod6: I prefer the term Stanix << as in "the dyslexic coder sold his soul to stanix" ?	[08:14]
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BingoBoingo	Why not?	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	guess so huh.	[08:18]
BingoBoingo	I think the biggest MP endorsment of hardware b-a so far is how much less time spent at the keyboard happens now compared to timisoara	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: one of the things pretty much no one (save possibly mircea_popescu) << possibly eh ?	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	i'm writing you down in my little black book OF INSULTS	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	which incidentally is not all that little.	[08:21]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo wait wut ?	[08:21]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Just seems in Buenos Aires you spend less time on the Keyboard than you did in Timisoara	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	srsly ?	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	well, the town is larger, fucking all the girls takes longer i guess.	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: butbut... the spec's right here! <<< not terribly fair. the mercedes is not made out of coffee like code is.	[08:23]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: diversity of systems << idiocy << no dude. if bitcoin code all ran on the same platform that'd be pretty much the end.	[08:24]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i retched << wuss	[08:26]
mircea_popescu	gotta get the girls dirty now and again, best thing for 'em.	[08:27]
ben_vulpes	rolling in mud is good for everyone.	[08:27]
ben_vulpes	keeps the immune system from attacking itself.	[08:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: therein lies the real chthonian ur-terror here. <<< nah, we know it works. we just can't prove it to arbitrary standards yet.	[08:28]
ben_vulpes	oh lol you said "prove" in the context of software around asciilifeform	[08:28]
mircea_popescu	trust me, i know what i'm doing :D	[08:29]
mircea_popescu	"Selenium IDE is a Firefox plugin which records and plays back user interactions with the browser. "	[08:29]
mircea_popescu	fuck me sally. they got excel "macros" for firefox now ?	[08:29]
ben_vulpes	...	[08:30]
ben_vulpes	i've only ever seen the programmable stuff.	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	"the user is your only true enemy." ~ che guevara	[08:30]
ben_vulpes	mo users	[08:30]
ben_vulpes	mo problems	[08:30]
mircea_popescu	ok well this was fun, but where is today's log ?	[08:32]
ben_vulpes	ah wait he's not even around	[08:32]
mircea_popescu	what is this piddly 800 lines you bring before me ?	[08:32]
*	ben_vulpes wonders if anyone's running on the 0.5.3 testnet	[08:33]
BingoBoingo	What hardware B-A ran out of girls already?	[08:33]
mircea_popescu	nah, just lube.	[08:34]
BingoBoingo	;;google 5 gallon surgical lube	[08:36]
gribble	Surgical Instrument Lubricant \| Medline Industries, Inc.: ; Surgical lubricant sterile - TheFind: ; Medical MetriLube, Learn More About MetriLube for Medical \| Metrex: (1 more message)	[08:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9115 @ 0.00072852 = 6.6405 BTC [-]	[08:41]
ben_vulpes	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV8JPZyJiuE	[08:43]
assbot	Girls check out guys crotch bulge on train - YouTube	[08:43]
ben_vulpes	and with that, good night.	[08:43]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[18:02]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[18:02]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[18:02]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[18:02]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[18:03]
-assbot-	You are now voiced in #bitcoin-assets.	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	hallo fellow cultists	[18:03]
*	TomServo hails the great leader.	[18:04]
*	xiando is monitoring this cult	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	http://41.media.tumblr.com/0d0dbaac6674f72042e594d6890b8194/tumblr_n1ilpvL6fA1sotprvo1_500.jpg << proof that the question mark is drawn all wrong.	[18:05]
mircea_popescu	TomServo you know, i'm too old for the cross bullshit.	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	jus' sayin'.	[18:06]
TomServo	cross bullshit?	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	you know, http://www.genocide-museum.am/eng/children/08r.jpg	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	btw, Auction of Souls is a must see, but preferably in the uncut version.	[18:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10497 @ 0.00072899 = 7.6522 BTC [+] {2}	[18:15]
TomServo	Well I have no crucifixion plans so, you're good.	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	http://www.brentisangry.com/2011/08/80s-comics-explosion-best-worst-comic.html << also pretty good, this guy's blog.	[18:24]
assbot	Brent is Angry: 80's Comics Explosion: BEST WORST COMIC, RUNNER-UP; SCIMIDAR! NSFW! ADULTS ONLY!	[18:24]
mircea_popescu	if one can read past the marauding sew he spwes.	[18:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00073191 = 7.3923 BTC [+]	[18:35]
*	adlai has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[18:36]
*	adlai (~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:37]
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jurov	asciilifeform: in the raw device as database, how do you index utxo to verify incoming transactions?	[19:04]
jurov	you'll still have to steal some code from bdb or do your own	[19:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5704 @ 0.00073197 = 4.1752 BTC [+]	[19:18]
TomServo	https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/ <-- el. oh. el. FB on tor.	[19:22]
jurov	upon further reading... so stan wants to make everything into own OS. ic.	[19:22]
kakobrekla	well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind	[19:25]
mats_cd03	huhuhu	[19:30]
mike_c	stan just wanted a book :)	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/	[19:36]
assbot	How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	well if you are playing 'what stan wants' game you prolly end up with 100% mechanical implementation of bitcoind << some things stan wants stan gets, some other things he gets to want even harder!	[19:37]
thickasthieves	lol	[19:37]
kakobrekla	mike_c a _MECHANICAL_ book.	[19:37]
thickasthieves	rewrite all the things	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	a mechanical book wouldbe pretty cool actually	[19:38]
mike_c	hehe, yeah. a book that mines.	[19:38]
kakobrekla	you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers.	[19:38]
*	peterl (d8634153@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.99.65.83) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00073166 = 2.9998 BTC [-] {2}	[19:40]
mircea_popescu	http://oglaf.com/booklove/	[19:41]
assbot	Book of Love page 1	[19:41]
*	asciilifeform somehow knew mircea_popescu would bring out -that- book	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	oglaf is the official cult comic.	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	someone should rewrite it.	[19:43]
*	hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:44]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	(speaking of which : http://oglaf.com/sexmanual/ )	[19:44]
assbot	Sex Manual	[19:44]
*	assbot gives voice to adlai	[19:45]
adlai	here's a new word for the scamtionary: "pre-enroll"	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	as in you've been preapproved ?	[19:46]
adlai	from https://pocket.digitalx.com/ which appears to be trying to position itself as an entry point for a new wave of... some demographic that I can't quite pinpoint	[19:47]
assbot	digitalX Pocket	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	"stupid people" ?	[19:47]
adlai	is this a payment processor? web wallet? "merchant portal"? whatever the fuck does that even mean?	[19:47]
adlai	oh well i guess i gotta pre-enroll to find out	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	WE ARE WORDS BECAUSE WORDS!	[19:47]
adlai	* Only paid upon verification of identity.	[19:48]
*	adlai still can't tell what the service does, other than pay you $10 for your identity	[19:48]
adlai	there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services	[19:49]
kakobrekla	you going to scam the scammer?	[19:49]
kakobrekla	go ahead and try.	[19:49]
adlai	in its logo, digitalx.com claims association with "digitalBTC"... wut	[19:49]
kakobrekla	adlai its a scam.	[19:49]
adlai	but i want my ten dollars!	[19:50]
kakobrekla	for that, you must refuse to do banana dance	[19:50]
*	kakobrekla did it.	[19:50]
mats_cd03	"Bitcoin accepted by Paypal"	[19:50]
adlai	http://youtu.be/m89rYW0epTs	[19:50]
assbot	Dance, Monkeys Dance!! - Ernest cline - YouTube	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	there's probably a nice little niche scamming these services << and a good thing for that, too. if there weren't no parasites praying on parasites we'd be awash in 'em	[19:51]
kakobrekla	!s banana dance	[19:51]
assbot	1 results for 'banana dance' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=banana+dance	[19:51]
kakobrekla	see adlai ^^	[19:51]
adlai	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Siphonaptera	[19:51]
assbot	The Siphonaptera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[19:51]
asciilifeform	!s little fleas	[19:52]
assbot	5 results for 'little fleas' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=little+fleas	[19:52]
kakobrekla	adlai its little fleas until you get to the turtles.	[19:53]
kakobrekla	or so i have been told.	[19:53]
adlai	up next, the long awaited sequel to Atlas Shrugged... "Turtle Dove"	[19:54]
asciilifeform	sequel 'atlas croaked'	[19:56]
*	asciilifeform always wanted to write it	[19:56]
jurov	you know - at least you are dealing with jus one broken stack, not layers upon layers. << you know, even newtonian mechanics themselves are just abstraction layer	[19:56]
asciilifeform	;;google atlas shrug harder	[19:56]
gribble	The Infamous Brad - Atlas Shrugged 2: Shrug Harder - bradhicks: ; Going Galt - RationalWiki: ; Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film - David Brin:	[19:56]
asciilifeform	^ infamous tr0l0l0l	[19:56]
mircea_popescu	jurov yes, but they're not broken.	[19:57]
mircea_popescu	imagine if newtonian mechanics leaked memory.	[19:57]
asciilifeform	!s bedrock	[19:57]
assbot	17 results for 'bedrock' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bedrock	[19:57]
jurov	but they are broken	[19:57]
jurov	must account for friction, oxidation and whatnot	[19:58]
jurov	second law of thermodynamics describes these leaks pretty nicely	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	newtonian mechanics that leaked memory would be more like, suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe	[19:59]
*	asciilifeform remembers some rant (or was it a dream?) where 'dark matter' is universe-sim leaking memory	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	NOT anything like friction.	[19:59]
jurov	well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else	[20:00]
asciilifeform	suddenly you end up in a bubble of finite size that's diverged from the rest of the universe << this featured in n. stephenson's mega-tale 'anathem'	[20:00]
jurov	instead	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	if you with some regularity could no longer find neither your girlfriend nor her house,	[20:00]
mircea_popescu	then you'd have a memory leaking situation	[20:00]
jurov	it does happen. how much stuff gets forgotten everty generation	[20:00]
asciilifeform	http://www.labyrinthinhabitant.com/anathem.html	[20:01]
assbot	Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine	[20:01]
mircea_popescu	here's a funny point about "supported by history", especially when one means "history as selected by me" :	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	as human history presently stands, the reality of such memory loss is actually supported	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	say, atlantis went there.	[20:02]
jurov	theoretical wanking aside, we're still just beings living off thermodynamical gradients - thus fundamentally something must leak	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	jurov yes but, a register increasing is this sort of leak. you're saying we fundamentally can't live in an immutable world.	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	this is true	[20:04]
mircea_popescu	memory leak has nothing to do with this.	[20:04]
asciilifeform	second law of thermo exists. but it does not follow that we are required to piss in our pants.	[20:05]
asciilifeform	incidentally,	[20:06]
jurov	^ you'll be lucky if that stays true in 40 years	[20:06]
asciilifeform	http://strangepaths.com/reversible-computation/2008/01/20/en	[20:06]
assbot	Reversible computation ::	[20:06]
asciilifeform	(originally r. feynman)	[20:06]
adlai	asciilifeform: this labyrinth inhabitant thingy seems neat	[20:07]
asciilifeform	adlai: based on book	[20:07]
asciilifeform	adlai: a riotously entertaining book, as thickasthieves might attest	[20:08]
adlai	you mean anathem, or the "labyrinth inhabitant" concept?	[20:08]
asciilifeform	'anathem'	[20:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11606 @ 0.00073145 = 8.4892 BTC [-] {2}	[20:10]
kakobrekla	well, it leaks energy. so we went on to devise machines that would leak something else < what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.	[20:10]
*	kakobrekla turns off 300rpm fans in his computah	[20:10]
*	kakobrekla has quit irc (ping timeout)	[20:11]
asciilifeform	(linked earlier) feynman did some entertaining gedankenexperimentation re: how much energy must one actually piss away in order to compute something	[20:12]
*	AndChat\|679296 (~AndChat67@2607:fb90:2708:93e:24b6:43fc:c67d:a54e) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:12]
adlai	"ATLAS SHRUGGED royally sucks as a novel, with cardboard characters, rivers of contrived coincidence and dialogue made of macaroni http://www.davidbrin.com/aynrand.html#sthash.1W0F9hdP.dpuf	[20:13]
assbot	Atlas Shrugged: The Hidden Context of the Book and Film	[20:13]
asciilifeform	it's a perfectly serviceable women's pulp romance.	[20:14]
adlai	imo 'anthem' is much better, can be read in a single s(h)itting	[20:14]
asciilifeform	('atlas.' once you know this, it bricks you in the face.)	[20:14]
*	RagnarsBitch has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)	[20:14]
asciilifeform	pet sayeth: 'best one i ever read!'	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	adlai: anathem? single shitting?	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	thou art a fast reader indeed.	[20:15]
adlai	'anathem' ≠ 'anthem'	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	d;oh.	[20:15]
asciilifeform	not confuse 'anthem' (rand) with 'anathem' (stephenson)	[20:15]
ben_vulpes	!	[20:15]
asciilifeform	about as related as cats and sprats	[20:16]
*	ben_vulpes stands corrected.	[20:16]
adlai	http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Ayn_Rand/Anthem/	[20:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00073458 = 12.0838 BTC [+] {3}	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	adlai it royally sucks as a "philosophy", or "economic theory", too.	[20:16]
kakobrekla	actually im still here, cause it works w/o the fans.	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform nah, women are actually smarter than that.	[20:16]
adlai	kakobrekla: ping timeouts generally take more than 40 seconds...	[20:17]
kakobrekla	shutup	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	compare random paragraphs with random paragraphs culled off sandra brown, it'll be readily apparent in half hour	[20:17]
kakobrekla	adlai remember who brought you here !	[20:17]
*	adlai has seen [Lag: 172+] before	[20:17]
asciilifeform	!s sandra brown	[20:17]
assbot	0 results for 'sandra brown' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sandra+brown	[20:17]
asciilifeform	^ error. not found in universe bubble.	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	whatever, pick any one of the chick pulp authors	[20:17]
asciilifeform	еггог	[20:17]
*	mircea_popescu basks in the glory of being an anthropologist, and therefore politically allowed and intellectually immune to the drawbacks of rooting through the human headshit pile	[20:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu must go through many gas mask filters.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	if i'm quirky, it's because all those chemicals in the filters.	[20:20]
adlai	kakobrekla: i also remember why you brought me, but still haven't heard any feedback from you	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	that;d be because he cnat raed	[20:20]
adlai	("the code is shit" is valid feedback atm, i'm more interested in the ideas behind it)	[20:21]
adlai	it's lisp, text-to-speech can render it just fine!	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes asciilifeform others : here's an idea, can you make the official code also be a palindrome ?	[20:21]
asciilifeform	which code	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	that way nubsy doesn't need to worry which side is up.	[20:21]
asciilifeform	aha	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know, the official bitcoin foundation official bitcoin core code.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	official+^	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	;;google c++ palindromes	[20:23]
gribble	c++ palindrome problem - C++ Forum - Cplusplus.com: ; c++ - Check if a string is palindrome - Stack Overflow: ; Palindrome in String C++ - Stack Overflow:	[20:23]
kakobrekla	adlai http://apina.biz/85530.jpg	[20:23]
assbot	http://apina.biz/85530.jpg	[20:23]
asciilifeform	next mircea_popescu will ask for it to be a quine.	[20:23]
adlai	http://de1.eu.apcdn.com/full/85530.jpg	[20:24]
adlai	asciilifeform: you know what the shortest common lisp quine is?	[20:24]
asciilifeform	adlai: 't'	[20:24]
adlai	or -	[20:24]
asciilifeform	https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13186 (kudos to diametric) - too good to be true ?	[20:25]
assbot	SparkFun SIM Card - 6 Months (Unlimited Data) - CEL-13186 - SparkFun Electronics	[20:25]
adlai	- is amazing, because CL actually has the concept of a quine programmed into it's specification	[20:25]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[20:25]
asciilifeform	^ vendor claims worldwide	[20:25]
adlai	AMAZING COMMONLISPITY!	[20:25]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[20:25]
*	Lee- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[20:25]
*	adlai slinks back to pythonland	[20:26]
*	Lee- (~lee@unaffiliated/lee-) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain	[20:26]
*	smidge (smidge@HSI-KBW-078-043-193-229.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:29]
mircea_popescu	http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/20/software-doesnt-fail-socialism-does/#comment-4247 << this is probably the ultimate example of socialist mind rot.	[20:31]
asciilifeform	don't argue with shannonizer. it never gets tired.	[20:31]
asciilifeform	like trying to scoop out the sea with a tea cup.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	so his argument goes that well, ussr is not a good example of how socialism generates wealth because it wasn't rich enough to begin with, whereas china is very rich now, so maybe it will try sociaism, notwithstanding that the path it took to get rich is the same path everyone took o get rich, specifically antisocialism.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	such fatlogic.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	"To broadly claim that socialism fails without examining its proper context and its successes is academically lazy, and betrays a rigidly static view of ideology. Pure and simple."	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	derp.	[20:32]
undata	mircea_popescu: but you see, once you've generated excess you have enough forever.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	"to say that you will never give us free shit is ~academically~ badword and rigid!!11"	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	holy shit already, people, start whipping your children.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	undata totally.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	x fails << еггог - 'fails' takes $argument	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	the shit they come up with you know ? "to claim that there are no solutions to X equation is RIGID!!!11"	[20:33]
adlai	+mircea_popescu \| it can't be a quine, it has to blockchain << who says those are contradictory?	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	why won';t you be moar flexible!11	[20:34]
adlai	any program can be a quine	[20:34]
undata	mircea_popescu: also socialist measures of economic growth are never lies	[20:34]
adlai	although the proof doesn't fit in the margin of this irc buffer	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	adlai its output is already specified, and the specification is incompatible with quine	[20:34]
undata	the chinese are on the brink of post-scarcity; you'll see	[20:34]
adlai	output ≠ behavior	[20:34]
adlai	it can dump its source code to stderr	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	wait, wut ?!	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	lol are you being flexible ?	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	copy of its source code ~as its only output~	[20:35]
adlai	they obviously didn't have turds in mind at the time	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	anyway, why is teh hydra chosen to attempt turning pete of all peeps anyway ?	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	is he like the only b-a jew or something ?	[20:37]
asciilifeform	for strict quinitude - yes, only possible output	[20:37]
adlai	we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user	[20:37]
adlai	alternatively, it could modify its own code to include the blockchain	[20:38]
adlai	it can end with the blockchain in a comment, and then when it's outputting, it just keeps spitting out blocks	[20:38]
*	asciilifeform does not regard quines as particularly interesting, because they are only a real challenge in retarded programming systems	[20:38]
asciilifeform	quite like how rhyming is only a serious feat in badly broken human langs	[20:39]
adlai	what languages would you count as broken?	[20:39]
asciilifeform	english, for one	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	adlai> we could define that the turd network doesn't count as output, since it's communication between computers and not output to the user <<< reading this sort of shit makes my head bleed	[20:39]
*	asciilifeform hands new gas mask canister to mircea_popescu	[20:40]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: why are we speaking a broken language? what forces have caused this?	[20:41]
asciilifeform	qwerty.	[20:41]
*	adlai typos in dvorak	[20:41]
thestringpuller	wow prolific	[20:41]
adlai	mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests	[20:42]
chetty	mircea_popescu: requirements like regulation must adapt to best protect the public's interests// whats 'the public'? Who would you protect? and from what?	[20:43]
asciilifeform	(not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost')	[20:43]
adlai	the public, from itself!	[20:43]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: this is why it is mind blowing.	[20:43]
chetty	the public, from itself!//<<< opt out	[20:44]
adlai	by the people, of the people, for the people, from the people, against the people...	[20:44]
asciilifeform	;;google once there was the people terror gave it birth	[20:44]
gribble	Poetry Lovers' Page - Rudyard Kipling: Macdonough's Song: ; Macdonough's Song. Rudyard Kipling. 1922. Verse: 1885-1918: ; Once there was The People - Terror gave it birth - The Quotations ...:	[20:44]
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adlai	http://www.labyrinthinhabitant.com/simonsays.html	[20:47]
assbot	Labyrinth Inhabitant Magazine	[20:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7350 @ 0.00072948 = 5.3617 BTC [-] {2}	[20:52]
undata	asciilifeform: beautiful.	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	(not the literal qwerty, but the 'platonic' qwerty seen as the overall human failing where folks agree on buggy shit and then cement it in place through 'sunk cost') << fwiw i disagree with this assesment. english is broken because it's a commercial pigdin, language without a country. the old languages of yurp are actually fine, and to this day more powerful than any synthetic syntax.	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	yes, lisp included.	[21:00]
asciilifeform	pidgin - yes	[21:00]
asciilifeform	http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/#comment-109451	[21:00]
assbot	How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[21:00]
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jurov	what , computhas dont leak energy? thats new.<< no i meant we want to devise machines that simulate non-leaking evironment	[21:02]
asciilifeform	('lisp' as properly defined is not a programming language, but merely a catalogue of avoided mistakes in the construction of a programming language. see: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=405 )	[21:03]
assbot	Loper OS » The Simplest Lisp Machine	[21:03]
asciilifeform	'In most (though not all) cases, all a designer must do in order to implement an unfeature is to refrain from tying the user’s hands in a particular way.' - yours truly	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	not a bad approach.	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/#comment-109452	[21:05]
assbot	How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[21:05]
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asciilifeform	^replied	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	discussion continues :)	[21:10]
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jurov	^replied	[21:18]
bounce	my isn't this an interesting irc conversation	[21:19]
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asciilifeform	^replied	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	similarly, both.	[21:23]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2014/10/btc-guild-shutting-down-may-be-sold/	[21:23]
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assbot	BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold \| Qntra.net	[21:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.00073865 = 38.4098 BTC [+] {5}	[21:23]
adlai	mircea_popescu: have you seen any serious science done on these topics?	[21:24]
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mircea_popescu	adlai which these ?	[21:26]
adlai	asciilifeform: who were the sinecures?	[21:27]
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asciilifeform	adlai: 'xxxxx studies'	[21:27]
adlai	mircea_popescu: the topics which are studied by the pseudosciences which you dismiss	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	nothing notable, no.	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	the entire field is essentially predicating that marx,cCarnagey, ziggler, the incredible hulk et al are actually scientists, or to be taken seriously.	[21:29]
adlai	i'm not even sure how you'd go about doing such research in a real scientific manner... lots of noise in the signals	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	not so unlike the purely usian folly of taking life advice from movie stars, "since we like this we might also pretend this is good, or right, or whatever"	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	primitive transference.	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	adlai well, wovon, eh ?	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	not like you HAVE TO	[21:30]
BingoBoingo	the incredible hulk << Actually a scientist	[21:30]
adlai	!ud wovon	[21:30]
chetty	actually some that current stuff that calls itself science wouldn't be so bad, it just needs to stop pretending it is science	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	adlai http://trilema.com/2014/the-problem-of-claims/	[21:30]
assbot	The problem of claims pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[21:30]
thestringpuller	;;ud wovon	[21:31]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Wovon \| ... Wovers Supporter. woverton · wove ya · Wovlz · Wovon · wow ...wow · W=OW · WOWA · WOWAA · wowabunga · WoWacholic · wowage ... Wovon isn't defined.	[21:31]
asciilifeform	the one inescapable fact about extraction of chemistry from thousand years of alchemy is that - it is done by chemists, rather than alchemists.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	^	[21:31]
asciilifeform	extraction of astronomy from astrology - ditto.	[21:31]
chetty	but asciilifeform latest stuff is trying to put them back together	[21:32]
adlai	mircea_popescu: wovon << alongside silence, i'd say questions are also a valid response to ignorance	[21:32]
asciilifeform	i've spent most of a decade trying to extract some nugget of living matter from 'computer science'	[21:33]
asciilifeform	whence and whether this goes - cannot say	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform self-styled "regulators" love to whine pathetic about the "irresponsible risk seeking behaviours" of banks or whoever, conveniently omitting to mention that it's the disease of the system, it's what socialism necessarily breeds (through blindness), and that they themselves took some insane gambles. such as the 50 year "let's finance pseudoscience, who knows, maybe it pays off"	[21:33]
chetty	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/25/birthday-personality_n_6014938.html	[21:33]
assbot	What Your Birthday Says About Your Mood And Personality, According To Science	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	adlai the point is that nothing forces you to speak on topics on which you have nothing to say	[21:33]
asciilifeform	no one wakes up and thinks 'today i will finance some pseudoscience.'	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well no banker wakes up and thinks "today i will lose some money"	[21:34]
asciilifeform	aha.	[21:34]
jurov	wtf is this nonsense. "chemist" label was applied only in hidsight	[21:34]
asciilifeform	jurov: that was the thought here	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	jurov yes. in hindsight. by people rejecting wholesale a 1000 years' pile of tradition.	[21:35]
jurov	they did not reject it	[21:35]
jurov	just extracted usable bits	[21:35]
jurov	plus, invented a scope	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	the moment they stopped trying to make gold, they rejected the search for gold.	[21:36]
asciilifeform	jurov: the (very fragile!) mechanism at work here is the process whereby the 'flies were separated from the cutlets'	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't take some sort of official pronouncement, like the "chemistry foundation" of 1700 signed a statement that they "now hereby reject the heresy of alchemy"	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	just, as people stopped trying alchemy they rejected it, it's all therein contained.	[21:37]
asciilifeform	it is also worth thinking about what kind of cocks folks we regard as 'genuine article' had to suck, in their times, to stay fed. e.g., kepler's tours of duty as court astrologer.	[21:38]
*	asciilifeform wasn't bottle-buddies with kepler, cannot attest as to the degree of enthusiasm with which he sucked the cock	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	the word sinecure originates from this time, specifically the actual peasant sucking the cock's despising of the uncocksucky position of kepler.	[21:39]
asciilifeform	aha	[21:39]
*	asciilifeform met quite a few genuine thinkers, leaves of living matter in the great garbage disposal of u.s. academia. folks who spend 90+% of their time on 'grantmanship' while fully aware of the idiocy of the entire structure. but had no escape ticket.	[21:41]
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chetty	sadly as long as people keep looking for a 'ticket' this will continue	[21:42]
asciilifeform	the machine is actually structured very well to avoid creating conscious malcontents. they happen anyway.	[21:42]
asciilifeform	chetty: hero - straight to sword. what should mathematicians eat ?	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	their wife.	[21:43]
asciilifeform	'El coronel necesitó setenta y cinco años —los setenta y cinco años de su vida, minuto a minuto— para llegar a ese instante. Se sintió puro, explícito, invencible, en el momento de responder. — Mierda.'	[21:43]
undata	100k can march in the street here and the rest do not take note	[21:43]
asciilifeform	('El coronel no tiene quien le escriba.')	[21:43]
chetty	well it is sad, I don't have an answer, just recognize the problem, ...what will turn the herd?	[21:43]
asciilifeform	^ catastrophically-badly specified engineering problem	[21:44]
asciilifeform	let's try a physical approach.	[21:45]
undata	americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems.	[21:45]
asciilifeform	what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going?	[21:45]
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asciilifeform	and can this come out of some reasonably-sane mechanism	[21:46]
undata	asciilifeform: how about owning the means to produce one's own food	[21:46]
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undata	and being left alone	[21:46]
asciilifeform	and can the meat go into the man's mouth before being caked with flies?	[21:46]
undata	that's what I'm aiming for	[21:46]
asciilifeform	what does it take to keep the flies off.	[21:46]
asciilifeform	stephenson's tale provided one answer.	[21:47]
asciilifeform	it was a fictional story, however, not an engineering recipe.	[21:47]
asciilifeform	(in fact, specifically implied that it took place on a planet with slightly less retarded inhabitants than this one)	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	americans can't communicate with each other well enough to solve any problems. << this is true actually. seriously, "dating guides" ?	[21:49]
undata	if anyone knew, it'd have been done	[21:49]
undata	asciilifeform: ^	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	"how to talk to women" ?	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> what does it actually take, in terms of resources, to keep a mathematician going? << food.	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	and yes. wife.	[21:49]
asciilifeform	undata: otto lilienfeld has a transistor in the '20s.	[21:49]
undata	mircea_popescu: "someday the right master will pour the right answers into my head. then I'll be great, you'll see"	[21:49]
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asciilifeform	undata: 'knew' -> 'done' is not automatic.	[21:49]
undata	asciilifeform: "knew" without a viable process to get to whats "known" is not "known"	[21:50]
undata	but elaborate	[21:50]
asciilifeform	undata: just one specific example where devil is in the details.	[21:50]
undata	for sure	[21:51]
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asciilifeform	!s coffin liner	[21:51]
assbot	3 results for 'coffin liner' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=coffin+liner	[21:51]
undata	asciilifeform: seems like the opportunity to get it "done" only arises from time to time	[21:52]
undata	there needs to be at that time someone with the sense to lead and the means to offer something in exchange	[21:52]
asciilifeform	example: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2014#506252	[21:52]
assbot	Logged on 16-02-2014 00:31:00; asciilifeform: 2 yrs. ago i figured out how to flex a fairly ordinary multi-conductor cable in an arbitrary spot, at an arbitrary angle, purely electrically.	[21:52]
asciilifeform	i (and quite a few other folks) have a collection of own 'lilienfeld's transistors'	[21:52]
asciilifeform	not everybody even bothers to tell anyone.	[21:52]
asciilifeform	ars longa.	[21:53]
undata	it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better"	[21:54]
undata	rather than just in a different shape	[21:54]
undata	glorious leader given the power to reshape society tends to turn it into a masturbation implement	[21:54]
undata	maybe that points to cultivating better fetishes? hah	[21:55]
undata	regardless I'm not the guy	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	it is likely having grown up here that gives me deep skepticism that things are ever "better" << the canonical form of this is, "it is unlikely for the tadpole that ever lived in the same one puddle to imagine what different puddle means"	[21:55]
undata	I just want to write code and grow food	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	which is why young men should go abroad.	[21:55]
asciilifeform	asking inventors to always 'independently wealthy' is like asking your computer to harvest all of its energy (and material to create additional parts) from the environment on its own accord. a 'would be nice' scenario, but there are good reasons why it is not practical. machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machin	[21:55]
asciilifeform	es.	[21:55]
undata	mircea_popescu: having gained means I will likely do many things I've never done	[21:55]
undata	for now I'll grind my life away	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which : anyone want to hear retold the ancient japanese story of the turtle from kyoto and the turtle from osaka ?	[21:56]
asciilifeform	me.	[21:56]
mircea_popescu	an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in kyoto. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of throwing strands of silk over the pond, which became fashionable,	[21:57]
undata	sure	[21:57]
asciilifeform	undata: glorious leader given the power... tends to turn it into a masturbation implement << straight to aristotle's 'politics' on what the pill here is.	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	but bothered the turtle, because it could no longer see the light of the soon or the moon, or the stars.	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	an old turtle had lived for many years in a pond in osaka. in the later days a new concubine introduced a habit of launching ever more bright felinars at night, which bothered its sleep.	[21:57]
mircea_popescu	eventually the turtle from kyoto had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to osaka.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	eventually the turtle from osaka had enough of this indignity, and securely tying a salad leaf to its carapace, proceeded on the road to kyoto.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	after putting step after step for long enough they met at the midpoint of the road between kyoto and osaka.	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	they saluted each other, and soon realised each comes from the other's destination. so they naturally inquired	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	how is osaka like ?!	[21:58]
mircea_popescu	oh, terrible brother, just terrible. how about kyoto ?	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	just as terrible as well!	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	then, after a moment of reflection, they said their goodbies and parted ways	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	the turtle from osaka, back towards its pond, in osaka	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	and the turtle from kyoto, back towards its pond	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	in kyoto.	[21:59]
adlai	should've chatted over a beer rather than hurriedly yapping on the road	[22:00]
mircea_popescu	adlai there is no guarantee that turtle language includes space for more than "terrible"./	[22:00]
adlai	salutes have quite low information density	[22:00]
adlai	how terrible	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	you're generally not at liberty to rely on an infinite representational space.	[22:01]
asciilifeform	^	[22:01]
asciilifeform	much shorter soviet version:	[22:01]
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asciilifeform	'a hedgehog marches in the fog, with a rifle.' 'not funny at all, but at least it's a tale about war!'	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	(to be perfectly fair the original japanese folk story doesn't have that explicit in there, but hey. posteriority separates and all that)	[22:03]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[22:03]
asciilifeform	explicit doesn't work for teaching.	[22:04]
asciilifeform	just as looking at a set of weights doesn't grow muscle.	[22:04]
undata	asciilifeform: depends, are you teaching a new language?	[22:04]
asciilifeform	undata: there, the implicit part is 'go reverse engineer'	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: machines that can do this exist, they are called animals, and generally have their own problems that prompt people to invent less-general machines. << splendidly put.	[22:05]
asciilifeform	incidentally, this doesn't always work. witness the mindless regurgitators who shine in every academic chumpatron.	[22:05]
asciilifeform	'inventor must be wealthy' works about as well as 'computer ought to be a cow.' wouldntitbenice.	[22:06]
undata	members of my family grow their own food, and do so without taking up their entire day	[22:07]
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undata	I don't buy it.	[22:07]
asciilifeform	undata: what do they pay protection money with ?	[22:07]
undata	asciilifeform: the rest of their day	[22:07]
asciilifeform	aha.	[22:07]
asciilifeform	qed.	[22:07]
undata	there's the problem then, not the food	[22:07]
asciilifeform	'food' in the abstract, in the sense of what is the total input required for the 'machine' (mr inventor) to function.	[22:08]
undata	we can make iPhones, but not reduce the work required to produce food?	[22:08]
undata	I'm watching people do it with crude processes	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	careful with those "We"s brother	[22:08]
asciilifeform	lol	[22:08]
mircea_popescu	lest i make you show me how you produce ipods.	[22:08]
mats_cd03	the work required to produce food _has_ been reduced	[22:09]
undata	surely you see what I'm driving at.	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 then why don't you have any ?	[22:09]
undata	I know people with a greenhouse and a field that eat very well, better than I do.	[22:09]
mats_cd03	~200mn chinese work the fields. ~12mn americans do the same task, afaik.	[22:09]
asciilifeform	thing is, food (per se) is presently a mostly free ride, for so long as petrochemistry keeps trucking.	[22:09]
mats_cd03	thanks, technology!	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	this is the quintesential broken approach. there's "food" as you're talking, there's "food" as he's talking.	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	these aren't the same.	[22:09]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but somehow the people who expect to be able to eat without being slaves also bitch at the people fighting for the oil requisite for that arrangement.	[22:10]
mats_cd03	i don't agree with this distinction	[22:10]
mircea_popescu	because ars longa, vision short-a.	[22:10]
undata	"rulers will always want all of my time" ?	[22:10]
asciilifeform	ahaha yes.	[22:10]
asciilifeform	!b 2	[22:11]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1FTMR6G.txt )	[22:11]
mats_cd03	the food i consume has nutrition, and calories, and it sates the appetite. so far, my life expectancy has not changed in any way. how is it nto food?	[22:11]
*	undata declares himself confused	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 it's not the whole story of food.	[22:11]
mats_cd03	we've been over this thing, where "americans don't eat real food"	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	the food your master chooses to dispense to you in exchange for scrip that master has given you n the first place	[22:12]
mats_cd03	sure. true story. doesn't mean "real food" isn't actually available.	[22:12]
undata	mats_cd03: wandering further from the mark	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	is obviously a dependency on the fucking master in question	[22:12]
asciilifeform	there is a reason why i say 'usaschwitz.' what's the actual problem, in most people's mind, with living in a concentration camp?	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	and if putin keeps hammering him in the head all over the middle east, your scrip may be as good as the confederate's.	[22:12]
undata	mircea_popescu: the master imposes the need to be fed by the master	[22:12]
undata	people fed themselves throughout history	[22:12]
undata	and before it	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	undata not so.	[22:12]
asciilifeform	or, rephrase: does it actually cost 2k usd/mo. to keep the box presently over my head standing? if not, who pockets the difference?	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	people, of the common kind, can only be fed by a master.	[22:12]
asciilifeform	and what units is it denominated in, in actuality.	[22:12]
undata	mircea_popescu: to say what of the people I know who feed themselves?	[22:12]
mircea_popescu	undata that they're momentarily realising gains out of externalised costs that haven't yet caught up with them.	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	once they get lynched by an angry mob you can say what you will,	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	for we're looking at the full story.	[22:13]
undata	mircea_popescu: where's the ruler then?	[22:13]
undata	and if he doesn't want them feeding themselves and working hard, what's he doing?	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	keeping the mob busy on reddit atm	[22:13]
undata	isn't this exactly my point?	[22:13]
mircea_popescu	i dunno.	[22:13]
asciilifeform	externalised costs << the entire story of government is - some folks staying warm by burning other folks' furniture (or dessicated carcasses.)	[22:14]
asciilifeform	see also, obligatory, j.c. scott, 'the art of not being governed.'	[22:14]
asciilifeform	or hell, kropotkin.	[22:14]
mats_cd03	i can't have this discussion strictly framed in metaphors and still understand what you're talking about	[22:14]
undata	mircea_popescu: I am suggesting that the people I'm describing are doing it right	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 puncture one, we can go from there	[22:14]
mats_cd03	or rather, can't grok.	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	that's the point of metaphores, to keep getting punctured.	[22:14]
undata	and that the ruler might be wise to set conditions for their success, not the others	[22:14]
mircea_popescu	out of their dried skins reality is built	[22:14]
undata	lest we all eat corn byproducts and let our country burn	[22:14]
asciilifeform	the only thing inventor (artist, whoever) can do is argue to the arsonist that he'd be of more use as something other than firewood	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	undata surely, everyone who's alive is doing ~it~ right	[22:15]
undata	mircea_popescu: depends on what comes in the next frame	[22:15]
undata	they may just be incredibly shortsighted	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	so yes, i grant that too, that your guys are pretty well above most.	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	in terms of likely future frames.	[22:15]
undata	http://data3.whicdn.com/images/50186242/large.png	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	but this alone is not nearly the strength of your previous statement.	[22:15]
asciilifeform	see also:	[22:16]
asciilifeform	;;google you and the atomic bomb	[22:16]
gribble	George Orwell: You and the Atomic Bomb: ; Orwell's 5 greatest essays: No. 4, "You and the Atomic Bomb" - Los ...: ; Fifty Orwell Essays - Project Gutenberg Australia:	[22:16]
asciilifeform	(rules of engagement between the 'arsonist' and the 'firewood' are determined primarily by technological state of the art)	[22:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform since the iris young nitwit was mentioned, here's a q for you : how many maths or generally actual scientists you ever heard of that were full professors at 34 ?	[22:17]
asciilifeform	today? in usa?	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	or phd at 25 ?	[22:18]
asciilifeform	i know of none, anywhere.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	yes,	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	well, she did it, somehow.	[22:18]
asciilifeform	and if there lives one, he's sitting on grant committees with the other zeks.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[22:18]
*	asciilifeform is glad that he was drummed out of academia	[22:18]
*	asciilifeform at least gets to go down fighting	[22:19]
*	undata acknowledges that a lot of people "doing it right" got smashed to pieces when the USSR collapsed as well	[22:21]
*	asciilifeform could point out that today's phd is not the same animal as james clerk maxwell's. but doubts that it needs saying.	[22:22]
undata	this goes to my earlier statement about good people eating bullets	[22:22]
undata	the US is just... done.	[22:22]
asciilifeform	he - 25, yes. but today, it just means you give 'good head.'	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform combination of good head and good tits	[22:23]
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mircea_popescu	it's not fully learnable.	[22:23]
asciilifeform	or the male equivalent.	[22:23]
*	asciilifeform not specialist.	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	actually the reason it can't be fully learnable has more to do with godel than with tits and ass.	[22:24]
asciilifeform	more predator/prey equilibrium	[22:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00073247 = 1.2452 BTC [-]	[22:28]
*	jacoblyles (~jacoblyle@12.252.149.246) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:29]
undata	asciilifeform: today's american phd has the requisite psychology to thrive climbing ~25 years of bureaucracy	[22:31]
asciilifeform	starting from grade school.	[22:31]
undata	yep	[22:31]
asciilifeform	and not simply bureaucracy in the usual sense of the word.	[22:31]
undata	soul-crushing meaningless process	[22:31]
undata	the US public school system is a prison system	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	;;google "in the attempt to make prison more like school, they made school more like prison"	[22:32]
gribble	New Orleans schools feel too much like prisons \| The Hechinger ...: ; The School-to-Prison Pipeline \| Teaching Tolerance: ; Fact Sheet: How Bad Is the School-to-Prison Pipeline? \| Tavis ... - PBS: (1 more message)	[22:32]
asciilifeform	'prussian' schooling is not in itself fatal. plenty of worthwhile folks survived it. but requisite in 'survive' is 'escape.'	[22:32]
undata	mircea_popescu: the highschool in my home town was apty designed by a prison architect	[22:33]
undata	*aptly	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	fuck you google, that's the worst matching ever.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	;;google "under the guise of making prison more like school the reverse is of course accomplished."	[22:33]
gribble	Digging through archives yields gold pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: ; Rehabilitation Facts, information, pictures \| Encyclopedia.com ...: ; Top 10 Reagan Achievements \| Human Events:	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	y u not know natural language!	[22:33]
undata	asciilifeform: to say nothing of its waste, though	[22:34]
asciilifeform	waste is a 2nd law invariant.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	undata you can't waste the living.	[22:34]
undata	mircea_popescu: please elaborate.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	if you don't eat a bit of lard, some rat will find it.	[22:34]
asciilifeform	'sanitars of the forest' !	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	the proof that there was nothing there to waste in the first place is the simple fact of having been wasted.	[22:34]
undata	by what metrics would you like me to describe the failings of the american system?	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	good q.	[22:35]
asciilifeform	the concept of 'waste' requires a process goal.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but how do you measure the wastefullness of pointlessness ?	[22:35]
asciilifeform	e.g., if the objective is to fatten pigs, rather than rats, then yes - waste.	[22:35]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this requires inventing 'point.'	[22:35]
asciilifeform	the basic setting on the dial.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	i suppose in a system without objective all is a waste, which reduces to what i said.	[22:35]
undata	"that which maximizes human growth and survival"	[22:36]
undata	is good	[22:36]
asciilifeform	precisely	[22:36]
asciilifeform	'precisely' to mircea_popescu	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	undata it's pretty good nonsense, yeah	[22:36]
undata	and that's strictly an opinion	[22:36]
asciilifeform	not to 'growth and survival'	[22:36]
adlai	aegis agamemnon23 AlexWkz altoz AndrewJackson Anduck Apocalyptic arij artifexd asciilifeform assbot atcbot Azelphur	[22:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25509 @ 0.00073263 = 18.6887 BTC [+]	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform too late :D	[22:36]
jurov	i'd rather like an answer that when current system finally fails due to bitcoin, will this get us rid of only the bad ideas?	[22:36]
*	asciilifeform uninterested in human biomass maximization	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	jurov definitely not.	[22:36]
undata	mircea_popescu: how is any other goal coherent absent that	[22:36]
undata	asciilifeform: that's not what I said	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	undata there is no goal possible in politics.	[22:36]
undata	maximizing biomass may not maximize survival	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	hence the entire "proceed from cause not towards goals" thing.	[22:37]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[22:37]
gribble	Current Blocks: 327911 \| Current Difficulty: 3.598564026507623E10 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 328607 \| Next Difficulty In: 696 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 15 hours, 27 minutes, and 19 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 38956321236.2 \| Estimated Percent Change: 8.25518	[22:37]
undata	mircea_popescu: then why does every leader impose one?	[22:37]
undata	is that not his role?	[22:37]
jurov	i guess the surviving ideas and people will get selected cvasi randomly	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	only shitty "leaders" do.	[22:37]
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jurov	thus the trilema's article is false	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	jurov no, not randomly.	[22:37]
jurov	how not?	[22:37]
asciilifeform	the basic 'job description' of the aristocrat is to specify 'point'	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	how so lol! wait, i'm proving the negative now ?	[22:37]
asciilifeform	i.e. 'where to live to'	[22:37]
jurov	there was pseudoscience before wwiii, there was not much less of it after	[22:37]
jurov	*wwii	[22:38]
jurov	perhaps, depending where you lived	[22:38]
undata	I'd enjoy clarification of the point that there are no goals in politics.	[22:38]
undata	goal implies end state?	[22:39]
asciilifeform	extant problem is not the overabundance of 'flies' (plenty of funded garbage in babylon as now) but the disappearance of 'cutlets'.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	undata here's an article discussing that "leaders" thing : http://trilema.com/2014/on-the-superiority-of-monarchy-or-adnotations-to-why-the-worst-get-on-top/	[22:39]
assbot	On The Superiority of Monarchy (or, adnotations to Why the Worst Get on Top) pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	specifically, "What fucking plans ? Why does the dictator have to absolutely have some sort of plans, aforethought ? Maybe he’s a dictator in the proper sense, because his group perceived him as worthy. He didn’t go to them, like an obnoxious lawyer spawn, with a list of whatever items are fashionable - promises, intentions, qualities, college degrees - to ask to be made a dictator and thus have the gaping void and	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	ontological fear of nothingness chewing away at his frail identity somehow resolved.x No, maybe they came to him, saying “look Cincinnatus, you are the best among us, and the best by so very far you must be our dictator” and he said “Maybe; we’ll see”. What plans did then Cincinnatus have, exactly ? That all men must assemble on the Camp of Mars ? And if they hadn’t, what exact moral impediment’d have th	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	at been for him ?"	[22:39]
jurov	well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy"	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	by some.	[22:40]
jurov	would he promote rationa thought?	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	(ie, the chtulhy cult)	[22:41]
asciilifeform	the disappearance of the aristicrat (fellow who is bred to the task of 'deciding where to live to') is the basic boojum	[22:41]
asciilifeform	everybody with half a neuron (aristotle to mr moldbug) groks this	[22:41]
jurov	not by some. by everyone by order. that's definition of dictatorship.	[22:41]
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mircea_popescu	jurov not so. the definition of dictatorship is merely "he whose word makes truth"	[22:41]
jurov	example?	[22:42]
thestringpuller	jurov: well, chtuhlhu would certainly be "perceived as worthy" << unless someone like Cartman befriends him.	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	cincinnatus says "all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather.	[22:42]
asciilifeform	what modern folks think of as 'dictator' is really, (psychiatric observation) the name given to a fellow who tries to do the job of aristocrat without having been bred for the task (as in a woman who thinks she can fill in for a milk cow)	[22:43]
thickasthieves	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2kwmhd/btcguild_shutting_down/	[22:43]
assbot	Btcguild shutting down. : Bitcoin	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	thickasthieves was on qntra earlier	[22:43]
thestringpuller	thickasthieves: http://qntra.net/2014/10/btc-guild-shutting-down-may-be-sold/ << qntra is on it	[22:43]
thickasthieves	ah fuk	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform quite so. some women manage admirably.	[22:43]
asciilifeform	but observe, no human dairy farms. (perhaps a mere engineering problem!)	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	(if we're to trust the usual US statistics and general scientific consensus, which is to say comic books)	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	;;google woman milking farm	[22:44]
gribble	Picturing Women Farmers - Modern Farmer: ; Success story of a diary farming by Women : Sweety Diary Farm ...: ; At our farm - YouTube:	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[22:44]
jurov	"all men must gather on the camp of mars" and now all men in actual fact must so gather. << okay, but to return to the topic, how this advances rational thought?	[22:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9144 @ 0.00073349 = 6.707 BTC [+]	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	jurov the dictator's a political institution, not a gnoseological tool.	[22:45]
jurov	oh that was an answer to undata	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	hmm can't find it now, but ayway, there's an entire wank niche dedicated to woman-to-cow transformations, woman-dairy farms etc.	[22:47]
*	asciilifeform unsurprised	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	about as good science as krugman's economics or obama's peace.	[22:47]
mircea_popescu	"makes me warm inside" criterion.	[22:47]
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mircea_popescu	http://oglaf.com/fountain-of-doubt/ << rational process.	[22:50]
assbot	Fountain of Doubt	[22:50]
asciilifeform	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3203922895939197@naggum.net.html << pertinent	[22:53]
assbot	Re: Engineering Envy [was: Re: CL and UML] - Naggum cll archive	[22:53]
asciilifeform	^ for anyone still awake	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	http://oglaf.com/fountain-of-death/ << further rational process	[22:54]
assbot	Fountain of Death	[22:54]
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undata	mircea_popescu: in reading your article, it seems that one of the disconnects in the above has been that I perceive certain kinds of conflict wasteful which you do not.	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	well, the problem with "wasteful" is you gotta specify more about the situation than you can.	[22:59]
undata	mircea_popescu: being that I'm not the one setting goals for the society	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	has all the spunk that hasn't filled a vagina been wasted ? how about that's not been swallowed ? rubbed on tits ?	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	what is this waste you speak of.	[23:00]
undata	in my particular, engineers who rot in the halls of googles and facebooks, I think	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	you don't like the ulterior effects of socialism, but you do like some of the premises, such as "X for all", as in, "a future for all", "a chance for all" etc.	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	well... whence this bonanza ?	[23:00]
undata	no, I don't. it's not socialism for my family to feed itself	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	to try to.	[23:01]
undata	but I can see that I've used some of their terms to describe how I feel about it	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	so does everyone, what, you think kaybosh hungerlice of kenya isn't trying ?	[23:01]
mircea_popescu	he's trying alright.	[23:01]
undata	so my family feeds itself because it presently can, which indicates nothing about whether that fact is due to their own action	[23:02]
undata	I can buy that.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	im not going as far.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	you presently are able to feed yourself, which indicates nothing about whether you OUGHT TO be so able.	[23:02]
undata	I think I'm just arguing for more robust citizens	[23:02]
undata	ah	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	because never an is and an ought shall kiss.	[23:03]
undata	what is the benefit of weakened citizens?	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	benefit to whom ?	[23:03]
undata	well hell, I don	[23:03]
undata	t know	[23:03]
undata	haha	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	so then that's your answer :)	[23:03]
undata	mircea_popescu: when you get used to masters which withold food, don't you dream of otherwise?	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	my dreams are not comprehensible in human language.	[23:04]
mircea_popescu	anyway, any frustrated desire is as entitled as any other. once it satisfies itself so it's no longer a desire it will have gained its rightful death.	[23:05]
undata	given the task to deliver, does it help the trucker's delivery to have only enough gas to arrive at his destination	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[23:05]
undata	and if the man who designates the quota miscalulated, the load is lost	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	well maybe, sue.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	sure*	[23:06]
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undata	mircea_popescu: and then the truckers get tired of losing loads and we lose generations instead	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	well, "lose"	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	the 2000-2010 generation of usians isn't anymore lost than the 1500-1510 generation of usians	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	who mostly got eaten by wolves or w/e, or the 1000-1010 generation, that didn't even exist.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	whence this expectation to be important and matter anyway ?	[23:09]
undata	everyone wants what he wants	[23:11]
BingoBoingo	http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/10/31/qntra-nearly-a-month-in/	[23:11]
assbot	Qntra: Nearly a month in \| Bingo Blog	[23:11]
undata	I'd rather not matter to anyone.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	so then what do you care about "wasted" generations whatever that may mean.	[23:11]
undata	lets say there's a comet heading for us	[23:12]
undata	and lets say the guy that knew how to stop it shot himself 10 years ago because he could not find a use	[23:12]
undata	the ruler should be a search function identifying merit and putting it to work	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	listen, you were here earlier when rand was being put down for being verbose, pointlessly so.	[23:12]
undata	above, masturbation implement	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	there's very little economy in your fiction, not just this present comet thing, but the previous thing with the truck. such wasteful abuse of literary means.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	art comes from economy.	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	so, you're asking me to believe that the guy was going to stop the comet with his cock ? or how exactly did he get to be the ONE ?	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	is this a comic book ?	[23:13]
BingoBoingo	Maybe?	[23:14]
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mircea_popescu	there's a reason i quote shakespeare rather than rand.	[23:14]
BingoBoingo	Comet Stopping Cock might be a decent flick	[23:14]
undata	rulers which don't care about the lives of their underlings eventually burn	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i think the orgasm subtext in "comet" needs moar usage tho.	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	undata all rulers eventually burn. and all underlings, too.	[23:15]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well a good story needs an antagonist, in this case the Comet Cummer	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	this earth-and-heaven xtianity thing... it really got people enthralled did it.	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet"	[23:16]
BingoBoingo	Seems that way	[23:16]
mircea_popescu	;;google "above you only sky"	[23:16]
gribble	Above Us Only Sky: ; Above Us Only Sky Bar & Bungalows (Sihanoukville, Cambodia ...: ; Above Us Only Sky in SihanoukVille, Cambodia. - YouTube:	[23:16]
undata	and no possessions too?	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	no.	[23:17]
BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo why not "the coming of the comet" << I'm thinking a series of comets head towards earth, they were uncharted. Astronauts go to find the source and it's jsut a masturbating space giant. They have to fuck it and make it a pocket pussy so it stops endangering worlds with its seed	[23:17]
mircea_popescu	he gets things half right, it's how teh sews work.	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo sounds like a decent "lsd/pot stories" series.	[23:18]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well... kina how B movies make their bread	[23:19]
thestringpuller	Random and off topic. Pierre_Rochard was telling me about a country whose economy was riddle with Ponzi Schemes to the point real businesses were losing value because the ponzi's outnumbered the real businesses. I think it's Albania http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_schemes_in_Albania Maybe someone can help shed more light as he didn't know what the country was at the time.	[23:19]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller this was actually amply discussed in here, a while back.	[23:19]
thestringpuller	is it albania?	[23:19]
undata	mircea_popescu: 'we all die someday' was not what I was saying	[23:19]
thestringpuller	!s Albania scheme	[23:19]
assbot	0 results for 'Albania scheme' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Albania+scheme	[23:19]
undata	what we do before we die is what's relevant	[23:19]
thestringpuller	!s Albania pyramid scheme	[23:19]
assbot	0 results for 'Albania pyramid scheme' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Albania+pyramid+scheme	[23:19]
thestringpuller	!s Albania ponzi	[23:20]
assbot	0 results for 'Albania ponzi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=Albania+ponzi	[23:20]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller yeah it is.	[23:20]
thestringpuller	i'll dig into logs. thanks mp	[23:20]
undata	should the ruler not care about the continued breathing of the peasants, the peasants are best off making themselves as useless a burden to him as possible	[23:20]
undata	that's where that antagonism ends up	[23:20]
undata	or... "if you do not make me an offer worth taking, I will work for someone else"	[23:21]
undata	absent the socialist subsidy of failure this works fine	[23:22]
asciilifeform	there has to be a 'someone else.'	[23:25]
asciilifeform	!s pepsi	[23:25]
assbot	27 results for 'pepsi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=pepsi	[23:25]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller http://pastebin.com/YVTBA8fV quick grep	[23:25]
assbot	2014 Feb 28 08:55:06 diametric: the latest trend is that Mar - Pastebin.com	[23:25]
undata	asciilifeform: there are myriad other producers of the same syrupy garbage	[23:25]
undata	I can walk to one that makes their own in two blocks	[23:26]
asciilifeform	undata: nah. pepsi in the sense of kingdoms to defect to.	[23:26]
undata	pepsi isn't the king	[23:26]
asciilifeform	and a sufficiently porous fence.	[23:26]
undata	and shouldn't be	[23:26]
undata	the ruler should be setting the conditions for an operating market and then letting it run	[23:26]
undata	and should in that sense is "it is in the interest of the subjects to light themselves on fire otherwise"	[23:27]
asciilifeform	undata: 'pepsi' in the sense of an alternative to 'coke', which, in the lack of alternative, turns into 'usg soda'	[23:27]
undata	rulers die, do they not?	[23:27]
undata	it's the building that remains	[23:28]
undata	what beyond contract inforcement and defense does one want out of a government?	[23:28]
asciilifeform	e.g., pre-unification italy, where if you were stuck under a ruler who isn't fond of trigonometry, you could walk to the domain of another who is - and will hold your pursuers off by force of arms, if he's an aficionado of your work	[23:28]
undata	asciilifeform: I find it hard to not use that example to support my point of view	[23:29]
asciilifeform	see the life of, e.g., leon theremin, to see that this does not always work as planned - but it is still the only thing that works.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	if there were a 'pepsi' alternative to usg, folks who can make any claim at value would be defecting in droves.	[23:30]
asciilifeform	('usg' here should be read as the entire nato blok.)	[23:31]
undata	so there should be many small militaries constantly warring?	[23:31]
asciilifeform	yes.	[23:31]
undata	that's the stupidist thing I've heard today.	[23:31]
*	jacoblyles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:32]
undata	sounds like a great way to make militarism the only thing practiced.	[23:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3193 @ 0.00073252 = 2.3389 BTC [-]	[23:33]
*	mike_c has quit ()	[23:33]
undata	half the planet irradiated for the glory of the leader	[23:34]
undata	you end up with the best leader and nothing to lead.	[23:35]
adlai	best military* leader	[23:35]
*	jacoblyles (~jacoblyle@50-203-185-210-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:36]
undata	adlai: half in here imagine themselves a mongol as they sit hunched over a keyboard	[23:38]
*	adlai is more troglodyte than mongol	[23:38]
*	undata would be headed thataway in a firefly class vessel were it 200yrs later	[23:41]
*	TheNewDeal (46c5c524@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.70.197.197.36) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13050 @ 0.00073239 = 9.5577 BTC [-] {2}	[23:44]
*	jacoblyles has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:49]
*	undata (~undata@trinque.org) has left #bitcoin-assets	[23:50]
mats_cd03	this business of wanting is what got us into this mess in the first place	[23:50]
jurov	X-BT goes with altcoin	[23:51]
mats_cd03	letting that kind of talk run its course is how you get socialism. everybody wants, everybody gets.	[23:51]
jurov	just got email it's closing	[23:51]
mats_cd03	assuming world peace is the rightful, desirable end state is kind of silly	[23:52]
Apocalyptic	was no point running it any longer	[23:52]
*	adrrr has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:52]
jurov	you did not offer it for sale?	[23:52]
Apocalyptic	it's probably not worth much as is	[23:53]
asciilifeform	irradiated for the glory of the leader << funny how this happened to exactly no one back when 'small militaries constantly warring' was a thing.	[23:53]
BingoBoingo	qntra.net/2014/10/bitreserve-holds-your-bitcoins-as-fiat/ from thestringpuller	[23:55]
*	RetroUpriser (20d45712@gateway/web/freenode/ip.32.212.87.18) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:55]
asciilifeform	BTC Guild Shutting Down, May be Sold << say hello to usg's brand-spanking-new mining pool reserve.	[23:56]
thestringpuller	http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitreserve-holds-your-bitcoins-as-fiat/	[23:57]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[23:57]
*	jacoblyles (~jacoblyle@12.252.149.246) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:58]

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