Forum logs for 30 Aug 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[03:36]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[03:36]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[03:36]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[03:36]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[03:36]
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mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol well like nao	[03:37]
RagnarDanneskjol	pmming momentarily	[03:42]
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mircea_popescu	lycerion ce din genuni rasari cu-o-ntreaga lume,	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	nu cere fapte si minuni care n-au chip si nume.	[03:43]
RagnarDanneskjol	!up MolokoDeck	[03:44]
*	assbot gives voice to MolokoDeck	[03:44]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/#comment-106873 >> lmao check out douchecanoe	[03:46]
assbot	Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	i mean contravex	[03:46]
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mircea_popescu	le	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	whoops	[03:47]
MolokoDeck	hello.	[03:48]
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mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck hey. so as i was telling RagnarDanneskjol, i have no problem covering you if you can deliver the thing by what was it, end of sept ?	[03:49]
MolokoDeck	ready to talk about details for completing the cryptocontract bot. most of the unit tests are in place, but it's a good idea to fill in any desiderata or necessities to reasonable detail.	[03:50]
ben_vulpes	hey does anyone have a link to that thing where coinbase straight up blocks certain addrs?	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell peterl " This got me thinking about the topic, so I decided to write up some thought I had on the subject a while ago." <<< the "i decided" device is the absolute worst intro mechanism for a blog post possible. it connotes this guy : http://trilema.com/2011/cred-ca-pe-alocuri-se-exagereaza/	[03:50]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:50]
assbot	Cred ca pe alocuri se exagereaza pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[03:50]
MolokoDeck	end of september seems easily doable to have a working version going and available as source in a GIT repository.	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	so tell me again what you think this is, best way to go about thisa	[03:51]
MolokoDeck	one wants to time-stamp and "notarize" documents that are signed by counterparties with verifiable cryptosignatures registered with #bitcoin-otc WebOfTrust.	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell peterl otherwise, the point that "bitcoin is the chosen" by the very code is quite sound and an intelligent way to go about it.	[03:52]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck nevermind what one wants, say what the thing does.	[03:52]
MolokoDeck	a bot would sit in whatever channel (this one) and someone would invoke it with something like .notarize http://domian.tld/contract_0001.txt nick1, nick2, nick3 ... nickN	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	no.	[03:53]
MolokoDeck	the bot would respond that all of the cryptosignatures of the listed nicks were registered with #bitocin-otc, their public key hashes matched and all the signatures were good.	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	it would extract the nicks from the signatures in the .txt. the mechanism to do this relies on gribble, did you see that ping ?	[03:54]
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MolokoDeck	then the bot would return an SHA256 hash of the document, encode it as a bitcoin address and make a minimum non-spendable transaction, and log to a repository or blog the document with the sha256 hash and the transaction ID containing the encoded hash, and the block number it's in. It would wait to get a confirmation before doing this so the transaction would be in the blockchain.	[03:55]
RagnarDanneskjol	i think we;re still one step off here molo	[03:55]
MolokoDeck	if the signatures could be extracted from the document without knowing the corresponding public key, which I'm getting out of the public key registry that wot uses, that would be good.	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck it cabn, gimme a sec to find the solution.	[03:56]
MolokoDeck	but so far I haven't dug in enough to know if that's doable given command line GPG, I think you have to validate against a public key.	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	in the endless desert of logs	[03:56]
RagnarDanneskjol	so much lawgs	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	!s nick from:gribble	[03:57]
assbot	1190 results for 'nick from:gribble' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nick+from%3Agribble	[03:57]
MolokoDeck	simply having valid signatures doesn't guarantee that the people who made the contract signed it. which is why I'm using wot as an authority to find the registered keys for the parties asserted to have been signatories.	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	;;seen bluemeanie4	[03:57]
gribble	bluemeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: later	[03:57]
ben_vulpes	does anyone have a link to the lawsuit by the guy who sued the usg for the gold they 'borrowed'?	[03:57]
ben_vulpes	i don't even recall the name of the suit.	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#792431	[03:58]
assbot	Logged on 12-08-2014 03:25:41; gribble: (gpg info [--key\|--address] ) -- Returns the registration details of registered user . If '--key' option is given, interpret as a GPG key ID.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	;;ident	[03:58]
gribble	Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is identified as user 'mircea_popescu', with GPG key id 8A736F0E2FB7B452, key fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	;;gpginfo --key 0E2FB7B452	[03:58]
gribble	Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.	[03:58]
MolokoDeck	since the idea of a cryptocontract is that it's unenforceable and the value of performing as per the contract is one's reputation, it seemed important to make sure the claimed signatories are probably the signatories.	[03:58]
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mircea_popescu	;;gpg info --key 0E2FB7B452	[03:58]
gribble	No such user registered.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	grr	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg info --key 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452	[03:59]
gribble	No such user registered.	[03:59]
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MolokoDeck	I can show you the unit tests doing that.	[03:59]
MolokoDeck	not sure I want the test server's URL going into a channel log though.	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg info --key 8A736F0E2FB7B452	[03:59]
gribble	User 'mircea_popescu', with keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452, fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None, registered on Fri Jul 22 08:39:10 2011, last authed on Fri Aug 29 20:36:13 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=mircea_popescu . Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu .	[03:59]
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mircea_popescu	there!	[03:59]
ben_vulpes	you can message gribble privately, MolokoDeck	[03:59]
MolokoDeck	actually, if one invites Tao_Jones in here and voices the bot some of these functions already work.	[03:59]
RagnarDanneskjol	he already jas it implemented in his bot	[03:59]
MolokoDeck	right, I could use gribble as an API.	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck so basically, bot reads each document, extracts declared sig, puts it to gribble	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya	[04:00]
MolokoDeck	instead I'm using the wot API and the associated public key server, adding the public key to the bot's keyring each time a contract is validated, then verifying the signatures.	[04:00]
MolokoDeck	I presume gribble uses the wot api.	[04:00]
MolokoDeck	ok. so you want to use gribble as an open agent.	[04:01]
MolokoDeck	that's fine and easier.	[04:01]
MolokoDeck	the way i've done it makes it somewhat stand-alone. if the public key registry is replaced it would be general cryptocontracts.	[04:01]
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mircea_popescu	so i figure why no give clueless noobs a chance. send an order " http://mediaparty.info/2014/ << find the afterparty". half hour later, "i can't find anything. nobody is sayinga word on sm, there's ONE picture of a guy and some wine on twitter without enough background to find where it is or anything".	[04:01]
assbot	Hacks/Hackers BA Media Party, Buenos Aires, Argentina	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	all these fucking successful derps for crying out loud.	[04:02]
MolokoDeck	ok. not having to sweat keyring security seems a good idea since everyone trusts gribble.	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck yup.	[04:02]
ben_vulpes	what's the "no congress shall be held to the agreements of a previous congress" citation?	[04:02]
*	#bitcoin-assets :You're not a channel operator	[04:02]
ben_vulpes	regarding borrowing gold and refusing to pay it back?	[04:03]
ben_vulpes	i'm dying here halp pl	[04:03]
ben_vulpes	zlp	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	;;google trilema story endless korea	[04:03]
ben_vulpes	zplzplpzlpzlpz	[04:03]
gribble	Decembrie 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; ZoneHedge Wow. Such Durden. Much info. About useless ... - Trilema: ; Understanding Argentina's Coming Default, For Real This ... - Trilema:	[04:03]
MolokoDeck	what is of concern is that to make a valid transaction to the bitcoin blockchain one has to manage a web wallet. The first cut is going to use block.io since they have a simple API that includes the testnet (which I'm using in such a rudimentary way it doesn't matter whether it's obsolete features exist or not. the subset of features is common to the latest bitcoind)	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck so what's the concern ?	[04:03]
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ben_vulpes	john m kerry thanks mircea_popescu !	[04:03]
MolokoDeck	probably none, other than that the software has to store the passphrase somewhere. like... on a server.	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes it goes back all the fucking way to 1930.	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck it's never going to own more than a bitcent or w/e	[04:04]
MolokoDeck	or if the bot is started with a shell command the parameters end up in the process list.	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	if someone breaks in and steals the bitcent, hey, more power to them.	[04:04]
MolokoDeck	yeah, it's like 5 cents a document, about the cost of a xerox copy.	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	ok, so say what the thing is again, let's see if i say yes this time.	[04:05]
MolokoDeck	so the wallet just has to have a few centiBTC in it at a time.	[04:05]
MolokoDeck	if security concerns are de minimus I'm ready to finish it as planned.	[04:05]
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RagnarDanneskjol	wanna run it down one more time for clarity molo? what it does exactly	[04:06]
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MolokoDeck	bot sits in here. People point it at a cryptocontract with multiple signatories. it verifies the signatures. if they're good it creates an unspendable bitcoin transaction with the address encoding the SHA256 hash of the contract. When that transaction clears and is on the blockchain, it notifies the IRC channel and gives the URL of a logged copy of the document, it's associated hash, and a pointer to the blockchain transac	[04:07]
MolokoDeck	tion ID and/or block number.	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	no.	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	it does not verify the signatures. it merely extracts w/e signature gpg sees in the document.	[04:09]
MolokoDeck	it also logs the documents to some kind of repostory or blog. Knowing the preferred format and web address of that ahead of time may be good, but that's like a quick mod to make it do whatever wherever.	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	o, that what you meant, "verifies" via google ?	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	shit. via gribble i mean.	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	i need more coffee, amphetamines and cuntjuice over here.	[04:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11905 @ 0.00085367 = 10.1629 BTC [+] {2}	[04:10]
MolokoDeck	searching and indexing that blog sounds like a website backend function, not part of the bot.	[04:10]
*	RagnarDanneskjol wonders if single use wallets are better for this	[04:10]
mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol nah i want it to always send from the same address.	[04:10]
MolokoDeck	some sort of "give the bot another wallet" IRC commandline function would work for that.	[04:10]
mircea_popescu	no bother.	[04:11]
MolokoDeck	ok. so it's presumed the signatures are valid?	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	if gribble says so, yes.	[04:11]
MolokoDeck	verifies using GPG or gribble.	[04:11]
RagnarDanneskjol	mmk	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	no, not using gpg. using gribble.	[04:11]
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mircea_popescu	when you feed a string to gpg you either get a "nonsense" complaint or a "signed by X" response, with a warning that "we can't know who x is "	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	this warning we squarely ignore, because if gribble knows who x is so do we	[04:12]
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mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo "Now this wasn't particularly notable at all. Now a lot of mining companies are crawling" << you are not allowed to use now as the first word in two consecutive sentences	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	what is this, kansas ?	[04:15]
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mircea_popescu	!up MolokoDeck	[04:15]
-assbot-	You voiced MolokoDeck for 30 minutes.	[04:15]
*	assbot gives voice to MolokoDeck	[04:15]
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ben_vulpes	gribble does sigver?	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes nope.	[04:16]
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MolokoDeck	you need the hash of the public key ... to get that it seems you need the public key. the PGP cryptosignatures on a document are kind of opaque if you don't have the public key already, apparently it uses the public key to determine whether the signatures match the unaltered document and are from the person who owns the private key matching the public key.	[04:16]
MolokoDeck	at least to do what I'm already doing with it. If this is easier than that then it's as good as done.	[04:16]
MolokoDeck	it's easy to spiff a static address with a few satoshi.	[04:16]
MolokoDeck	rather than keep signing up for more block.io addresses.	[04:16]
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MolokoDeck	I just sent you a link to the unit tests.	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck it's included in the signature block of the signed thing.	[04:16]
ben_vulpes	MolokoDeck: care to share ?	[04:16]
ben_vulpes	i have two whole beers to get through before i knock off for the long weekend i want to read more unit tests	[04:17]
ben_vulpes	hue	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:17]
ben_vulpes	(mircea_popescu: it's like "i find this amusing, even though nobody else probably does, or someone's trolling me, but it's not quite lolworthy")	[04:17]
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ben_vulpes	!s ben_vulpes lol	[04:18]
assbot	25 results for 'ben_vulpes lol' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=ben_vulpes+lol	[04:18]
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RagnarDanneskjol	he likes to keep things quiet until they're ready for primetime	[04:18]
RagnarDanneskjol	something of a coder primadonna	[04:18]
MolokoDeck	I think that use of "now" requires a comma in the first sentence, since it's used as a colloquialism or interjection.	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	no ppl i r not insane tyvm stop pming me. i am aware that through the process as described signatures never get in fact verified and one could create a colision and sign for someone else. this is not a bug, it's a fucking feature. you ARE supposed to check YOURSELF the fucking sigs if you intend to rely on the signed documents. it's the only way to implement this correctly.	[04:18]
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ben_vulpes	so signed by "x" does not imply that the signature is valid?	[04:20]
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ben_vulpes	or that the signature is valid for hash "x" but that there may be collisions?	[04:20]
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mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes gpg saying "signed by x" means nothing if you don't have x's pubkey to check.	[04:20]
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mircea_popescu	a point so fucking readily lost on derpjournos you wouldn't begin to believe.	[04:21]
ben_vulpes	what is "x" in this case - hash or name + email fields?	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	nsa reads like a third of their "secure" comms on this basis.	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes the keyid above.	[04:21]
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mircea_popescu	!up CHRIX	[04:22]
-assbot-	You voiced CHRIX for 30 minutes.	[04:22]
*	assbot gives voice to CHRIX	[04:22]
ben_vulpes	hash == keyid, right? where does gpg get the hash? from the signature itself?	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[04:22]
ben_vulpes	okay, great	[04:22]
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ben_vulpes	and gpg verifies that the keyid is valid for the sig?	[04:23]
mircea_popescu	so having a "signature apparently by 8A736F0E2FB7B452, could not verify" is one thing. "good signature from user MP 8A736F0E2FB7B452" is another thing.	[04:23]
ben_vulpes	in the latter case it compares the known pubkey to the sig	[04:23]
ben_vulpes	in the former all it does is...	[04:23]
ben_vulpes	can you even verify a signature without a public key?	[04:24]
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asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rfc4880.html	[04:24]
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assbot	RFC 4880 - OpenPGP Message Format	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	it compares the pubkey it has stored (and which you hopefully signed) to the shit in the hash of the signed document to establish it was not merely signed but actually signed by x.	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	!up MolokoDesk	[04:24]
-assbot-	You voiced MolokoDesk for 30 minutes.	[04:24]
*	assbot gives voice to MolokoDesk	[04:24]
MolokoDesk	that's why I'm getting the public key out of the WOT registry at: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xAF65AE980C825691	[04:24]
assbot	Public Key Server -- Get "0xaf65ae980c825691 "	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	this is not something that may or can be centralised.	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck don't.	[04:24]
MolokoDesk	ok.	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	simply do this : separate the pastebin into individual signed bits, put each through gpg, take the apparent, unverified signer id, put it through grible to verify wot id, put it through gribble again to verify assbot linkage and you're done.	[04:25]
MolokoDesk	including the public keys in the document then signing it with those public keys would lock this in.	[04:25]
ben_vulpes	but in the case of an unknown key, pgp cannot determine if a signature is valid.	[04:25]
MolokoDesk	sure, that's what I wanted to do initially, get the public key from the signature.	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes all it determines is that the document formally looks like one signed by that guy.	[04:26]
ben_vulpes	in that there is a signature and a keyid.	[04:26]
ben_vulpes	gotcha.	[04:26]
asciilifeform	MolokoDeck: please, absolutely must, take the time to understand how pgp actually works.	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	just like irl, the registrar of deeds does not verify your signature, merely looks that this shitwas signed	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	if a matter of repudiation arises, then that is dealt with by testing the sig.	[04:27]
MolokoDesk	ok. can GPG extract the public key from a cryptosignature without knowing which public key was used to make the cryptosignature?	[04:27]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDeck it can extract a keyid from the signature block.	[04:27]
MolokoDesk	I didn't see any obvious way to do that.	[04:27]
mircea_popescu	try it.	[04:27]
MolokoDesk	I did, which is why I resorted to using wot's key registry.	[04:27]
MolokoDesk	oh it CAN extract it.	[04:28]
mircea_popescu	gimme a pastebin with something you signed please.	[04:28]
MolokoDesk	hmn.	[04:28]
mircea_popescu	don't make it something stupid.	[04:28]
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MolokoDesk	heh. I haven't tested this with documents signed by anyone else yet. sec.	[04:28]
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MolokoDesk	ok. is the rationale here that if counterparties signed a document, they usually know who they are and since the contract is not enforceable by an external party, only by their cooperation, it doesn't matter who actually signed it if they all know they did.	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk the signature of someone you don't know is worthless to you.	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	the verification of identity relies on acts by they who know who you are.	[04:31]
MolokoDesk	and it's provable that the contract hasn't been altered since signed and timelogged to the blockchain.	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	(and signed).	[04:31]
MolokoDesk	ok. if this is easier than what I've done so be it.	[04:32]
mircea_popescu	welcome to philosophically sound software design (tm). i hope to see a lot more of it in the future.	[04:32]
mircea_popescu	computational soundness is so 1970s.	[04:32]
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decimation	mircea_popescu: thinking about your definitions of socialism v. fascism, it occurs to me that one quickly leads to another	[04:33]
mircea_popescu	which is supported by practice.	[04:33]
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decimation	for example, "I demand that the the group give me a "gun free" life" becomes "give us your gun or go to the gulag" for the neighbor	[04:34]
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MolokoDesk	one of the many defiitions of "government" is "that faction that has a monopoly on the use of force in a geographic area"	[04:36]
MolokoDesk	definitiions	[04:36]
mircea_popescu	all the politics of infantilism, where one makes demands of god, are suddenly exposed to reality, because in either of these degenerate systems of governmance (really, sides of same coin) one actualy may entertain the delusion of it.	[04:36]
mircea_popescu	hence musolini's famous "i demand god strike me down"	[04:36]
ben_vulpes	https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8244876	[04:36]
assbot	You are right, but if Bitcoin ever goes mainstream that kind of regulation that ... \| Hacker News	[04:36]
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decimation	MolokoDesk: I disagree, "monopoly on violence" is a refrain of modern apologists for the state	[04:37]
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mircea_popescu	no state ever had or ever actually used any sort of "monopoly" on "violence"	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	first off, violence is a subjective psychogenic construct.	[04:37]
MolokoDesk	there's no such monopoly in practice, of course.	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	what one woman takes as violence another takes as courtship, a point the state is desperate to hide from the more unfortunate of youze.	[04:38]
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mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk ok, so one final time, to check this off.	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	hit me.	[04:39]
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decimation	re: infantilism, charity << http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/gratitude.html " I watched one brave/stupid older woman approach a very large woman with six kids hanging off her cart ($420+ of free stuff), and tell her "I know gratitude is beyond you, the least you could do is be polite." The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval.	[04:39]
decimation	"	[04:39]
assbot	The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform why is the pgp corp named twice in the rfc ?	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	i never noticed b4	[04:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i did wonder this when printed my copy	[04:40]
asciilifeform	my guess was - missing parentheses	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know you need to fix the links.	[04:41]
MolokoDesk	assuming everything suggested regarding validating blind signatures is doable: someone points the bot at a cryptosigned document. The bot sniffs the signatures. if all the signatures are valid for that document, it issues a transaction encoding an SHA Hash of the document, waits for the transaction to appear on the block chain, then informs the irc channel of the transaction ID, block number and a pointer to a logged copy	[04:41]
MolokoDesk	of the document. If the signatures flunk it tells the channel that. try again.	[04:41]
decimation	asciilifeform: re: djvu vs pdf << but surely you ocr your digital library	[04:41]
*	assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk what do you mean by "are valid" ?	[04:41]
asciilifeform	that thing is on my box as mirror, as i'm convinced that our phriends will soon begin to monkey with various documents in transit by url	[04:41]
MolokoDesk	GPG says the signatures are valid.	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	mno.	[04:42]
asciilifeform	(yeah i should probably sign the copy i actually read)	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	we're not getting too far here, lemme write it out as a formal spec.	[04:42]
RagnarDanneskjol	test msg http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5hrDQdR4	[04:42]
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ben_vulpes	;;gettrust midnightmagic	[04:43]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask midnightmagic!~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user midnightmagic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=midnightmagic \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=midnightmagic \| Rated since: Mon Mar 7 15:45:54 2011	[04:43]
MolokoDesk	I've basically worked up a construction kit for such a bot. I presume the set of functions I have working, or some subset of them, can be used to implement anything we've discussed here.	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol MolokoDesk http://pastebin.com/yrL9xW6z	[04:44]
assbot	$ gpg -v -v gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com	[04:44]
mircea_popescu	of interest is the signature packet: algo 1, keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498 line	[04:44]
ben_vulpes	;;rate midnightmagic -1	[04:44]
gribble	Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.	[04:44]
mircea_popescu	;;gpg info --key 35D2E1A0457E6498	[04:44]
gribble	User 'RagnarDanneskjol', with keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498, fingerprint B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498, and bitcoin address 14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6, registered on Thu Jun 5 04:07:21 2014, last authed on Fri Aug 29 21:22:04 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=RagnarDanneskjol . Currently authenticated from hostmask (1 more message)	[04:44]
ben_vulpes	;;eauth ben_vulpes	[04:44]
gribble	Request successful for user ben_vulpes, hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/2AFA1A9FD2D031DA	[04:44]
MolokoDesk	the only thing i haven't tested fully is spending via block.io's api (i have the encoded wallet address already), and getting PGP keys or key IDs/hashes from a signed document without knowing the public keys already.	[04:44]
mircea_popescu	checked. see ?	[04:44]
ben_vulpes	;;everify if we're defending against collisions, extracting keyids doesn't help much.	[04:45]
gribble	(everify ) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter).	[04:45]
ben_vulpes	;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:3848beb16b68ec5ecee1475ddbe35c09c87cb06bfa9f07946cc58571	[04:45]
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gribble	You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA	[04:45]
ben_vulpes	;;rate midnightmagic -1	[04:45]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user midnightmagic has been recorded.	[04:45]
midnightmagic	now what?	[04:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2993 @ 0.00085148 = 2.5485 BTC [-]	[04:46]
MolokoDesk	ok. working backwards from the document, get the pubic key IDs of the signatories then look them up with gribble.	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	yup.	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	one sec ima write it out plainly.	[04:46]
MolokoDesk	that's probably the most expedient way to get what you want.	[04:46]
decimation	ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ?	[04:47]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: is this you? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3kwf4	[04:47]
assbot	midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs	[04:47]
*	midnightmagic looks..	[04:47]
MolokoDesk	so this is more a "bot, tell me what you know about this purported contract document, and save a copy, and if the contract isn't obviously bogus, notarize it to the blockchain with a hash"	[04:48]
midnightmagic	yup.	[04:48]
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ben_vulpes	there is no playing nice with bitcoin-core.	[04:49]
MolokoDesk	the unit tests grabs the keys from the public key registry every time and updates them in the keyring. that may not be what we're talking about doing now.	[04:49]
ben_vulpes	conformal is not misbehaving.	[04:49]
RagnarDanneskjol	i think the 'obviously bogus' part isn't really even a consideration	[04:49]
*	asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people	[04:50]
ben_vulpes	you're the lone positive supporter of ninjaspamgun.	[04:50]
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ben_vulpes	and what is this charitable thing?	[04:50]
midnightmagic	I'm not his supporter. I've seen his type before.	[04:50]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust midnightmagic ninjashogun	[04:50]
ben_vulpes	orly gribs?	[04:51]
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midnightmagic	The charitable thing is the project he's involved with re: children-oriented music education.	[04:51]
decimation	asciilifeform: should it be in LISP?	[04:51]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user midnightmagic to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=midnightmagic&dest=ninjashogun \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun \| Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014	[04:51]
asciilifeform	decimation: for all i care - fortran	[04:51]
asciilifeform	but google proprietary crud gives me the willies.	[04:52]
decimation	asciilifeform: agreed. why not python?	[04:52]
asciilifeform	which python.	[04:52]
asciilifeform	the fact that i can ask this question - is my answer	[04:52]
decimation	heh. 2	[04:52]
decimation	good point.	[04:52]
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mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk http://pastebin.com/iuk6rard	[04:53]
assbot	Deeds bot : 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin - Pastebin.com	[04:53]
ben_vulpes	pythugh	[04:53]
mircea_popescu	ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ? << ?	[04:53]
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MolokoDesk	bundling the documents every 5 minutes or so. and storing the hash of that. I was focusing too much on indivdual documents. The bundling feature was in my unit test notes.	[04:54]
mircea_popescu	* asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people << be fgucking thankful it's not ruby.	[04:54]
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mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk 1 hr.	[04:55]
*	assbot removes voice from MolokoDesk	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	!up MolokoDesk	[04:55]
-assbot-	You voiced MolokoDesk for 30 minutes.	[04:55]
*	assbot gives voice to MolokoDesk	[04:55]
MolokoDesk	that can be variable	[04:55]
MolokoDesk	I see you've specified about 1 per hour.	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	i'd rather have it fixed.	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	of course server may be under load or w/e.	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	but the idea is, once an hour.	[04:55]
decimation	mircea_popescu: I guess the question is about how much you trust the keyserver to serve valid keys	[04:55]
MolokoDesk	It's simple enough to parmeterize it, i didn't mean changing it from IRC. sure.	[04:55]
*	asciilifeform generally believes that safety-critical code must be written in such a way that auditor can see a tight correspondence between every line and what machine physically does. note that this doesn't entail 'use C!' but can also mean different machine.	[04:56]
mircea_popescu	mp service philosophy : "make small, absolute promises"	[04:56]
decimation	asciilifeform: which is why Knuth wrote MIX	[04:56]
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mircea_popescu	decimation at no point are keys examined in this process at all.	[04:56]
mircea_popescu	kinda what the whole discussion has been about	[04:56]
mircea_popescu	well, 80% of it anyway	[04:56]
asciilifeform	MIX << herr knuth wanted no 'holy war' re: why he picked architecture, nor was he interested in commercial endorsement of the existing hardware	[04:57]
*	assbot gives voice to chetty	[04:57]
asciilifeform	he was, after all, writing mathematics, not ad copy	[04:57]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: The last time I was anything but civil to the ninjawhatever type, it turned into 2-year siege that culminated in .. like three (apparent) lawsuits because "ops blah blah exceeding authority blah". Why would I want to risk that a second time when it costs me virtually nothing to report on what I see?	[04:57]
mircea_popescu	i'd be so curious to fuck the imaginary daughter of knuth and buffett.	[04:57]
MolokoDesk	I see you prefer the block number to the transaction number.	[04:57]
midnightmagic	And conformal IS misbehaving. You go idle in their IRC channels.	[04:57]
mircea_popescu	sadly, gay marriage wasn't a thing then.	[04:57]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: i did for quite some time.	[04:58]
MolokoDesk	there are multiple transactions in a block.	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk block-and-address.	[04:58]
chetty	The U.S. Forest Service on Friday published a nearly 700-word article on how to safely roast marshmallows, all in preparation for Saturday, which is National Roasted Marshmallow Day.	[04:58]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: what is this lawsuit?	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	comes to fewer bytes than tx id	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	also, tx id is not as reliable.	[04:58]
ben_vulpes	oh not actually ninjashogun	[04:58]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: Completely baseless, time-wasting lawsuit because bitcoins hit the multi-hundreds of dollars and random $greek_person found a lawfirm willing to launch defamation nonsense.	[04:58]
MolokoDesk	ok. still have to do a bit of work to find the address in the block. knowing the trasnaction ID is more specific. I'm not arguing the case, this is find.	[04:58]
MolokoDesk	fine.	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	yeah it's an extra step.	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic the one advantage of living in the us : afaik it's actually illegal to try and colect on euro defamation cases there.	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	might be just uk, i dun recall.	[05:00]
midnightmagic	Hope so.	[05:00]
MolokoDesk	so the burden of concatenating the document blob is done by some other agent and sent to pastebin.	[05:00]
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mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk that's not really your problem. one person could send five documents in one pastebin. three other people two each	[05:01]
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MolokoDesk	I had been intending to accumulate individual documents and bundle them periodically then announce the bundle/blog location	[05:01]
mircea_popescu	you've now got 11 things to string together and that's that.	[05:01]
Guest2171	Guest24831 Guest25299 Guest65567 guest8374 Guest84681______	[05:01]
Guest2171	Guest24831 Guest25299 Guest65567 guest8374 Guest84681______	[05:01]
Guest2171	Guest24831 Guest25299 Guest65567 guest8374 Guest84681______	[05:01]
mircea_popescu	!up guest8374	[05:01]
-assbot-	You voiced guest8374 for 30 minutes.	[05:01]
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MolokoDesk	yeah, if this is finally it there's not much more to say, I'll just do it.	[05:01]
mircea_popescu	cool. address ?	[05:01]
MolokoDesk	you want to discuss what happens when it's done that's fine. I'm already good to start on this based on previous email relayed.	[05:02]
mircea_popescu	well once it's done it'll be on github and hosted somewhere.	[05:02]
MolokoDesk	right.	[05:02]
mircea_popescu	what you writing this in ?	[05:02]
MolokoDesk	php	[05:02]
mircea_popescu	then you'd best include notes on how to get a stock php server into a stater where it can run your code.	[05:03]
MolokoDesk	there's an option to translate it to python later, but it'll be done sooner in php.	[05:03]
RagnarDanneskjol	for starters - then pyth pref	[05:03]
mircea_popescu	i dun care.	[05:03]
MolokoDesk	php is decent for rapid prototyping.	[05:03]
ben_vulpes	oh jesus you guys	[05:03]
*	teward (LordOfTime@ubuntu/member/teward) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:03]
ben_vulpes	look at this reddit angst	[05:03]
ben_vulpes	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3t55d	[05:03]
assbot	tozee comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs	[05:03]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes for the most part, we're here to escape the teenage angst of the interwebs.	[05:04]
ben_vulpes	oh	[05:04]
ben_vulpes	my	[05:04]
ben_vulpes	shits	[05:04]
MolokoDesk	I'm hosting a bot in ragnar's channel already.	[05:04]
ben_vulpes	anyways, midnightmagic there is no playing nice with "core" dev "team".	[05:05]
MolokoDesk	install notes with the php code.	[05:05]
RagnarDanneskjol	well its not MY channel, i just do all the talkin	[05:05]
mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol i got #trilema like that, it consists of me and some other cool kids logging into gribble.	[05:05]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: Do you mind if we go PM? I don't want to disturb channel.	[05:06]
RagnarDanneskjol	ooh I'm there	[05:06]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk i dunno how you get gpg for php for instance.	[05:06]
mircea_popescu	but it sounds like just the sort of thing to become a nightmare.	[05:06]
MolokoDesk	i open a pipe for stdio, stdin and stderr.	[05:07]
MolokoDesk	a pipe to gpg works well, gpg outputs it's valdiation spew to stderr so most people have trouble using it from inside php.	[05:07]
mircea_popescu	php does pipes ?	[05:08]
MolokoDesk	yes.	[05:08]
mircea_popescu	o wow. what a band name.	[05:08]
mircea_popescu	;;google php does pipes ? the band	[05:08]
gribble	Pipe Band: Music: Alma College: ; Calendar - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: ; Pipe Band Magazine - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World:	[05:08]
RagnarDanneskjol	haha	[05:08]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk and you actually have php irc bots somewhere ?!	[05:09]
mircea_popescu	i thought it was mostly py	[05:09]
MolokoDesk	invite Tao_Jones into this channel if you want to see the bot.	[05:10]
MolokoDesk	it'll need voice.	[05:10]
RagnarDanneskjol	he has a very cool bot that I talk to all the time	[05:10]
MolokoDesk	or you can drop into one of the channels it's already in.	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	um how did this shit go	[05:10]
chanserv	op	[05:10]
chanserv	op mircea_popescu	[05:10]
RagnarDanneskjol	can we kick the bot after - it can get a bit floody at times	[05:10]
chanserv	op #bitcoin-assets	[05:10]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu	[05:10]
MolokoDesk	I'm using a lot of scraping to get data in some cases so some modules require periodic maintenance.	[05:10]
*	You've invited Tao_Jones to #bitcoin-assets (verne.freenode.net)	[05:10]
*	Tao_Jones (~Tao_Jones@64.111.123.101) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:11]
mircea_popescu	!up Tao_Jones	[05:11]
-assbot-	You voiced Tao_Jones for 30 minutes.	[05:11]
*	assbot gives voice to Tao_Jones	[05:11]
*	mircea_popescu removes channel operator status from mircea_popescu	[05:11]
RagnarDanneskjol	.chart4h	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	---+------------------------------------+-----------------------513	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| ++ + \|BTC-e BTCUSD	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| + +++++ ++++ ++ \|ask 503	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| ++ + + ++ + \|bid 503.056	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| ++ + + + + ++++ + +++\|	[05:11]
kakobrekla	such noobs.	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\|+ + + ++ ++++ ++ ++ \|499.0100	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| ++++ + + + \|	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| + \|22-Aug 11:12:09	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| + + \|30-Aug 02:10:23	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	\| \|33 seconds ago	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	------------+---------------------------------------------------485.02	[05:11]
mircea_popescu	souch	[05:11]
MolokoDesk	.wot ragnarrdanneskjol	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	no wot entry for: ragnarrdanneskjol	[05:11]
MolokoDesk	.wot ragnardanneskjol	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	id=11613 keyid=35D2E1A0457E6498 fingerprint=B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498 bitcoinaddress=14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6 registered_at=2014-Jun-05 08:07:21 UTC nick=RagnarDanneskjol last_authed_at=2014-Aug-30 01:22:04 UTC is_authed=1	[05:11]
Tao_Jones	Public Key for RagnarDanneskjol at http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x35D2E1A0457E6498	[05:11]
assbot	Public Key Server -- Get "0x35d2e1a0457e6498 "	[05:11]
MolokoDesk	duelling bots.	[05:11]
-kakobrekla-	you dont need to op yourself to !up doh	[05:11]
*	#bitcoin-assets :You're not a channel operator	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla yeah but it had to be invited	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	that chart thing is fucking evil.	[05:12]
*	assbot gives voice to DoctorBTC	[05:12]
RagnarDanneskjol	i love it	[05:12]
*	mircea_popescu waves at DoctorBTC	[05:12]
DoctorBTC	does it do ascii video playback	[05:12]
decimation	is that supposed to be one of those 'ascii art' key hash things?	[05:12]
kakobrekla	anyone can invite since its not +i ?	[05:12]
DoctorBTC	hey mircea_popescu	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol i don't think tao can stay unless it starts answering ,chart in pm only	[05:12]
ben_vulpes	wow that's quite the paste	[05:13]
MolokoDesk	I notice that cryptsy has so many altcoins now that trying to load the entire json spew for them all crashes the quote-reading module.	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	DoctorBTC i don't recall what i wanted to commend you about, but it was something.	[05:13]
DoctorBTC	saw your shoutout the other night	[05:13]
RagnarDanneskjol	right agreed	[05:13]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: if you don't understand why this conversation belongs in #bitcoin-assets...	[05:13]
decimation	oh I see it's btc/dollar	[05:13]
MolokoDesk	.wolfram derivative 5*x^2-15x+12	[05:13]
Tao_Jones	d/dx(5 x^2-15 x+12) = 5 (2 x-3) = line = integral 5 (-3+2 x) dx = 5 (x^2-3 x)+constant	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	ahahha geekbot.	[05:13]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3l0cg << what the hell does that even mean	[05:13]
assbot	midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs	[05:13]
decimation	does that query wolfram alpha?	[05:13]
MolokoDesk	?BTC	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	bitstamp: BTCUSD last=507.94 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7354 Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31 UTC	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	BTC-e: BTCUSD last= buy= sell= high=hi low= vol= Thu Jan-01 00:00:00	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	bitstamp: BTCUSD bid=506.43 ask=507.95 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7353.59436112 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	vircurex: BTCUSD last=551.0 bid=551.0 ask=570.0 vol=0.22212299 time=Thu 01-Jan 00:00:00	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	Invalid argument supplied for foreach() coinbase.php LINE 96	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	No coinbase data for currency symbol: usd	[05:14]
Tao_Jones	bitfinex: BTCUSD last=503.96 bid=503.97 ask=504.72 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:43	[05:14]
mircea_popescu	yeah this is a pm bot srsly.	[05:14]
kakobrekla	if this shit continues imma +m	[05:14]
mircea_popescu	^	[05:14]
MolokoDesk	yeah, i'm scraping wolfram alpha, but if you pay them there's an API that is somewhat more flexible.	[05:14]
ben_vulpes	!down Tao_Jones	[05:14]
*	assbot removes voice from Tao_Jones	[05:14]
ben_vulpes	sry	[05:14]
RagnarDanneskjol	molo - lets hold on Tao floods	[05:14]
ben_vulpes	cannot deal	[05:14]
MolokoDesk	ok. no more bot demo.	[05:14]
RagnarDanneskjol	sorry, like I said	[05:14]
decimation	lol scraping 'human' interface	[05:14]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: ratings are not for "politeness"	[05:14]
MolokoDesk	it's morbidly verbose.	[05:14]
*	CHRIX is now known as KRS1	[05:14]
ben_vulpes	or "civility"	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	it's cool and all, but it has to pm to the commanding nick	[05:15]
MolokoDesk	kick the bot is my suggestion.	[05:15]
ben_vulpes	they are for trustworthiness and trustworthiness only.	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes you really can't say what process a third party uses to discern trustworthyness	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	it	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	s like water.	[05:15]
MolokoDesk	the bot also maintains a link log page, searchable.	[05:16]
*	ben_vulpes drums fingers angrily	[05:16]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes think of it the only right way to thinl of it : any restriction on the process for others is tantamount to a restriction on the domain of the trng.	[05:16]
mircea_popescu	only nsa wants that.,	[05:16]
ben_vulpes	well i've got my WoT over here, mkay?	[05:17]
ben_vulpes	it's got these pluses	[05:17]
ben_vulpes	and these other minuses	[05:17]
ben_vulpes	this minus is for this set of things.	[05:17]
mircea_popescu	and your skull over there too, with this brain matter in a wet soup, also got its pluses and minuses.	[05:17]
mircea_popescu	which are the better ?	[05:17]
mircea_popescu	teh pluses or teh minuses ? sodium or -oxigen ?	[05:18]
ben_vulpes	all right all right!	[05:18]
MolokoDesk	I was considering that the other night, having a web of trust data structure as a graph, then different algorithms to assess inheritance or diffusion of trust, various wieghtings of different endorsements, graph topology analysis to detect mutual endorsement cartels, that sort of thing	[05:18]
ben_vulpes	shit's just mad suspicious.	[05:18]
ben_vulpes	throwing fud at Conformal for "politeness"	[05:18]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk welcome to irl.	[05:19]
ben_vulpes	rating ninjashogun positively for "politeness"	[05:19]
mircea_popescu	so you don't trust the guy.	[05:19]
ben_vulpes	yeah well	[05:19]
ben_vulpes	like i said	[05:19]
ben_vulpes	this negrating is for this set of things.	[05:19]
mircea_popescu	a a yeah. missed that part.	[05:19]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: It means the constant claim of credit for work bitcoin core does, the regular snipes and badmouthing of dev activity, the adoption, nearly wholesale, of bitcoin features and ideas without any attribution, and the denial that either someone with access to the conformal code created a fork after rejecting a conformal-mined block, or someone who has a custom bitcoind that doesn't crash on a huge long testnet fork even	[05:19]
midnightmagic	when everyone else's bitcoind did, is evidence that conformal is misbehaving or at least wilfully misinforming people.	[05:19]
ben_vulpes	access to the conformal code	[05:20]
midnightmagic	The rating had nothing to do with "civility."	[05:20]
ben_vulpes	lol what the ever locing fuck	[05:20]
ben_vulpes	do you mean this shit on github?	[05:20]
midnightmagic	Correct. The mining code, which was unavailable at the time the fork occurred.	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic plenty of people have custom clients that don't get crushed by the hearn introduced nsa bug.	[05:20]
ben_vulpes	https://github.com/conformal/btcd/	[05:20]
assbot	conformal/btcd GitHub	[05:20]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: That's another issue.	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	what, you really thought we seriously let you people do the coding ?	[05:20]
midnightmagic	I'm not a dev. s/You/those/	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	s/you/those/	[05:21]
ben_vulpes	and yet with the vim	[05:21]
*	nubbins` (~leel@stjhnf0157w-142163082159.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOP.nl.bellaliant.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	i mean even fucking karpeles had his own (bad) sauce ffs.	[05:21]
ben_vulpes	phpsauce	[05:21]
midnightmagic	Yeah that was b-s. He was a menace. Nobody who relies on me lost any money at MtGox.	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	this is true, you're one of the very few people who were around during pirate even, didn't go all nuts about it.	[05:22]
midnightmagic	Not a dime. I did get ruled by BFL though.	[05:22]
justusranvier	I just spent the last three days supporting a code sprint with four Monetas coders and Dave Collins while they work on btcwallet. Midnightmagic's story about btcd forking testnet is complete BS	[05:22]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: still waiting on an explanation of http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3l0cg	[05:22]
mircea_popescu	which is why i'm not negrating you, myself. but hey, everyone his own wot sauce.	[05:22]
assbot	midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs	[05:22]
mircea_popescu	justusranvier hey there reddit boy :D	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	we were having lulz reading that entire thing	[05:23]
ben_vulpes	hey justusranvier i see you collecting btctips off my work	[05:23]
justusranvier	?	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	lmao asshat	[05:23]
ben_vulpes	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3ebmn	[05:23]
assbot	changetip comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs	[05:23]
ben_vulpes	nah mostly joshin ;)	[05:23]
midnightmagic	justusranvier: It was one or the other. They deny it was them. From the perspective of an outsider, what's the truth? Who knows? But the fork started at a block CONFORMAL built, and went for hundreds of testnet blocks. It's not b-s. Conformal's logic is false about the origin.	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes you got the worthless traffic, can't he have the worthless tips ?	[05:24]
*	gernika (~gernika@67-61-13-204.cpe.cableone.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:24]
ben_vulpes	traffic is worthless. tips?	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	what did he even get, 20 doge ?	[05:24]
justusranvier	ben_vulpes: that was your article?	[05:24]
ben_vulpes	what's a thousandth of a coin worth in three decades?	[05:24]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	"php does pipes ?" nubbins` !	[05:24]
ben_vulpes	;;calc 0.001/21000000	[05:25]
gribble	0	[05:25]
mircea_popescu	make it happen! sign them! nude chicks with tubes on their head singing the ocarina!	[05:25]
*	kermit (unknown@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:25]
*	nubbins` snorts, awakens	[05:25]
nubbins`	buh?!	[05:25]
ben_vulpes	justusranvier: yeah, i run ch	[05:25]
ben_vulpes	and van-ads.com	[05:25]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: A user put a forced garbage collection at the wrong spot in Conformal's btcd, and Go segfaulted for no good reason. The code is not as high-quality as everyone thinks it is.	[05:25]
justusranvier	I've actually got to run for about 30-45 minutes, but when I get back I can explain what actually happened on testnet.	[05:25]
*	assbot removes voice from MolokoDesk	[05:25]
*	devthedev (~devthedev@72.239.144.13) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:25]
*	devthedev has quit (Changing host)	[05:25]
*	devthedev (~devthedev@unaffiliated/devthedev) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:25]
RagnarDanneskjol	!up MolokoDesk	[05:26]
*	assbot gives voice to MolokoDesk	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic people like the fact that it's not in shitlanguage and it's better written than the bitcoind. this is not a comment on the actual code quality.	[05:26]
RagnarDanneskjol	mircea_popescu - are you confident molo is clear on the reqs? MolokoDesk - are you clear on the reqs?	[05:26]
mircea_popescu	i would think so.	[05:26]
nubbins`	process pictures, for those of you waiting on posters: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=756955.40	[05:26]
assbot	[PRE-ORDER] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [15/50 left]	[05:26]
ben_vulpes	midnightmagic: user did idiot shit with code, code broke. surprise!	[05:26]
justusranvier	In any case, check the timestamps on the testnet blocks on the day when btcd announced they'd entered beta	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	RagnarDanneskjol hence http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815547	[05:27]
assbot	Logged on 30-08-2014 02:01:35; mircea_popescu: cool. address ?	[05:27]
justusranvier	You'll see something interesting	[05:27]
ben_vulpes	this is precisely the fud.	[05:27]
RagnarDanneskjol	i kno	[05:27]
*	Ssateneth has quit (Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 3.3 (November '11))	[05:27]
ben_vulpes	;;gettrust justusranvier	[05:27]
gribble	Currently authenticated from hostmask justusranvier!~justus@unaffiliated/justusranvier. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user justusranvier: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=justusranvier \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=justusranvier \| Rated since: Mon Feb 11 19:56:55 2013	[05:27]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: That's total nonsense. It means the codebase is fragile, or the language itself is fragile.	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	golang isn't all that fragile, gwon.	[05:28]
ben_vulpes	i'll posit you the other scenario: bisect the codebase inserting GC calls until we find one innocuously positioned that can discredit the btcd team	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` haha shiot sherlock, that satuff should bne on your blog.	[05:29]
midnightmagic	ben_vulpes: leprechauns? Seriously?	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	seems eulora is actually getting some models made woot.	[05:29]
ben_vulpes	un savory garnishes	[05:29]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu pretty proud of it so far	[05:29]
ben_vulpes	why a gc call? why there? what the ever loving fuck is the story?	[05:29]
nubbins`	the split fountain on the sky is particularly nice	[05:30]
MolokoDesk	ok. if we're in agreement about what to do and when to do it I can send you a bitcoin address and get to work.	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk just paste it here.	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	what the hell has life in the police state done to you ppls!	[05:30]
MolokoDesk	I may want to talk about the deliveries and such in /msg	[05:30]
MolokoDesk	but it's not an issue to get started for me.	[05:30]
MolokoDesk	ok. finding the address.	[05:31]
ben_vulpes	nubbins`: looking good frere!	[05:31]
nubbins`	tyvm!	[05:31]
*	devthedev (~devthedev@unaffiliated/devthedev) has left #bitcoin-assets	[05:31]
nubbins`	you're going to lel when you see the next layer	[05:31]
mircea_popescu	dongs ?	[05:31]
nubbins`	nonono	[05:31]
ben_vulpes	errywhere	[05:31]
*	assbot removes voice from guest8374	[05:31]
ben_vulpes	plz or cunts	[05:31]
mircea_popescu	COME PLAY WTH USS	[05:31]
kakobrekla	just hairy balls this time.	[05:31]
nubbins`	reminds me of a thread on gigposters.com, the place i learned my craft -- question was "what's your fave show poster"	[05:32]
nubbins`	all these world-class poster artists saying "space dicks" "yep, space dicks"	[05:32]
kakobrekla	you know what I DONT LIKE IT ALREADY!	[05:32]
nubbins`	i'm thinking wtf? search the archives	[05:32]
kakobrekla	sorry, LOVE.	[05:32]
ben_vulpes	aight mes ami	[05:32]
nubbins`	finally come across this Melvins poster w/ mcdonald's characters on the moon with huge 10' tall cocks growing out of the surface	[05:33]
ben_vulpes	babe calls dinner is ready	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0WmWUT2rM : Plutesc purtat de tate-naripate cu aripi din vata de zahar pe spate ma poatra-n ceruri roz cu nori pufosi pe care fac bule dinozauri somnorosi. In zbor trec buci cu lungi siraguri de margele si-un cartof rustic rastignit pe acadele. Mai trece si un peste de otel si-un urs din muci cu degetel dar iata, hiii, acolo-n zare marea vulva cum rasare.	[05:33]
assbot	RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube	[05:33]
ben_vulpes	can't be arsed. here's to the sybils!	[05:33]
MolokoDesk	address for project related to contract bot: 1TaoJrnsQzfyBto2PmwPAssce9DGzsHg3	[05:34]
mircea_popescu	"i float carried on tits with wings of cotton candy on their backs, they carry me through pink skies and fluffy clouds upon which bubble sleepy dinosaurs. flying by go butts with lengthy bead strings, and a rustic potato crucified on lolips " etc	[05:34]
kakobrekla	and dont do stdin/out when you have a gpg wrapper	[05:34]
MolokoDesk	noted.	[05:35]
mircea_popescu	what is it ?	[05:35]
kakobrekla	what is it what	[05:35]
mircea_popescu	the wrapper	[05:36]
kakobrekla	http://php.net/manual/en/book.gnupg.php	[05:36]
assbot	PHP: GnuPG - Manual	[05:36]
MolokoDesk	heh. Was going to have to look into that.	[05:36]
MolokoDesk	there's probably an includable object in php that does PGP operations that doesn't use the command line. some PGP or GPG library wrapper.	[05:37]
kakobrekla	didnt i just link to it?	[05:37]
MolokoDesk	generally anything shell() or exec() -like is a bad practice.	[05:37]
*	teward has quit (Quit: ERROR: Segmentation Fault in ZNC: admin.so: 56)	[05:37]
MolokoDesk	yeah, I guess you did.	[05:37]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[05:38]
kakobrekla	didnt i just link to it? < twice, first time was a /notice	[05:38]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 506.2, Best ask: 507.83, Bid-ask spread: 1.63000, Last trade: 506.58, 24 hour volume: 7309.58172579, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 508.106868918	[05:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HASH] 488 @ 0.00115757 = 0.5649 BTC [-] {6}	[05:39]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk done.	[05:40]
*	teward (LordOfTime@ubuntu/member/teward) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:40]
MolokoDesk	do you want progress reports or just let you know when it's demonstratable first cut for comments feedback and midcourse corrections if any?	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	;;gettrust assbot MolokoDesk	[05:41]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user MolokoDesk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=MolokoDesk \| WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MolokoDesk \| Rated since: never	[05:41]
MolokoDesk	yeah yeah, I'm not in wot.	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	;;rate MolokoDesk 1 dev.	[05:41]
gribble	Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	get in the wot, you can get rated, then you can just voice yourself and add whatever relevant whenever relevant.	[05:41]
mircea_popescu	why aren';t you in the wot anyway.	[05:41]
MolokoDesk	it's just another thing to maintain.	[05:41]
MolokoDesk	but I see why it's the thing to do now, since I'm going to be in here a bit.	[05:42]
mircea_popescu	no it's not. your future ability to obtain work here, as well as your ability to benefit from the positive exposure you worked for today strictly hinges on you having a wot acct.	[05:42]
MolokoDesk	I do understand the utility of it, obviously.	[05:42]
RagnarDanneskjol	i been tellin him this forever	[05:42]
MolokoDesk	I'm in. I'll get that set up in a while.	[05:42]
*	Duffer_ has quit (Quit: Duffer_)	[05:43]
MolokoDesk	it's a bit of work to "not lose a private key". I jest somewhat.	[05:43]
MolokoDesk	eternal vigiliance is the price etc etc...	[05:43]
mircea_popescu	it's also a bit of work not to lose your penis.	[05:43]
*	assbot gives voice to diametric	[05:44]
diametric	there really isn't anything to maintain..	[05:44]
MolokoDesk	so far I'm not worried about that.	[05:44]
mircea_popescu	the former is a better use of your time.	[05:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: penis << dulap!	[05:44]
MolokoDesk	agreed. we'll see how it scales in the future.	[05:44]
mircea_popescu	so far I'm not worried about that. << freud would beg to differ.	[05:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform lol you liked that didja.	[05:44]
asciilifeform	mega-educational.	[05:45]
mircea_popescu	MolokoDesk your penis ? sorry to be the harbringer of sad news, but... it doesn't scale in the future, it shrinks in the future.	[05:45]
MolokoDesk	freudian entropy.	[05:45]
RagnarDanneskjol	AHAHa	[05:45]
mircea_popescu	cunts enlarge with use. cocks just sorta diminish	[05:45]
MolokoDesk	these asymmetries.	[05:45]
DoctorBTC	the future is like the cold pacific ocean...	[05:45]
MolokoDesk	I gotta get back to the pacific. Surf's up.	[05:46]
mircea_popescu	i wonder what the divorce rate would look like if it worked the other way areound. doing it five times a week = +1 inch a year.	[05:47]
asciilifeform	plus wear-hardening.	[05:47]
mircea_popescu	"i've been married for 28 years your honor! ENOUGH!"	[05:47]
MolokoDesk	sometimes there's something to be said for equlibrium.	[05:47]
MolokoDesk	pacific... seasteads.. molecular biology research enclaves...	[05:48]
asciilifeform	!s king neptune	[05:49]
assbot	1 results for 'king neptune' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=king+neptune	[05:49]
decimation	asciilifeform: what is your favored djvu reading device? kindle dx?	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	so i see coinroll add on bitbet, click, decide to try it out.	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	http://postimg.org/image/rl12aetz7/	[05:51]
asciilifeform	decimation: 'nexus-10'	[05:51]
assbot	View image: coinroll	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	SCAM!	[05:51]
asciilifeform	decimation: 'kindle dx' with russian os patch will read djvu, but only really makes sense for very good, high-contrast b&w scans.	[05:52]
mircea_popescu	;;calc .5 ** 4	[05:52]
gribble	0.0625	[05:52]
mircea_popescu	CLEARLY!!1	[05:52]
asciilifeform	decimation: 'librerator'	[05:52]
decimation	for mac desktop I've found that "Devonthink" works well to search/index pdfs	[05:52]
decimation	that's the name of the warez?	[05:52]
*	asciilifeform doesn't read scans on normal computer	[05:52]
asciilifeform	decimation: of the patch	[05:52]
decimation	reading scans on the computer sucks, but it's useful for searching references	[05:53]
mircea_popescu	but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing.	[05:53]
mircea_popescu	nice design job.	[05:53]
asciilifeform	decimation: most of these aren't meaningfully searchable anyway	[05:53]
decimation	yeah, more for textbooks, not prose	[05:53]
decimation	herr walker has a review on a bio of Maxwell: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2014-08/001530.html	[05:54]
assbot	Reading List: The Man Who Changed Everything (Fourmilog: None Dare Call It Reason)	[05:54]
asciilifeform	read it.	[05:54]
asciilifeform	also recommend: 'the maxwellians' (b. j. hunt)	[05:55]
*	assbot removes voice from MolokoDesk	[05:56]
decimation	one wonders with the ease of finding scans/native text of a great many published textbooks - how long until the college bookstore becomes a thing of the past?	[05:56]
asciilifeform	decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared	[05:57]
asciilifeform	decimation: the textbook racket responded by changing books (mainly exercises) around as often as they could	[05:57]
midnightmagic	It's already a good chunk of the way there. Many courses at local universities have entirely virtual course materials and reading lists.	[05:57]
*	jordandotdev (uid7502@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bgzuiluuzcgcghhm) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:57]
decimation	for undergrad subjects at any rate, you would be a pretty poor professor if you couldn't write your own text	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	and they are very poor professors.	[05:58]
*	assbot gives voice to kanzure	[05:58]
kanzure	unfortunately it is not yet profitable to buy textbooks and resell directly to pulp recyclers :(	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	and arguably, for much more socialy useful work, too.	[05:59]
decimation	considering scholars 500 years ago would transcribe the professor as he lectured, and then take turns reading the only copy of the course text, kids today have it great	[05:59]
kakobrekla	decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared < when i was in high school you could legally copy 70% of the book .... at once.	[05:59]
asciilifeform	many american 'public' unis publish complete lists of who's paid what - where i live, this is required by law	[05:59]
asciilifeform	and yes - it's true	[05:59]
chetty	the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.// but much shorter career	[05:59]
kanzure	the textbook industry spends about $3B/year on marketing- but have you ever seen an ad for a textbook?	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	chetty not so, not really.	[06:00]
kanzure	it's all spent on elaborate vacations for professors	[06:00]
asciilifeform	most (scientific) profs also moonlight as industrial consultants though	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	most uni profs fail to get their tenure in their late 30s	[06:00]
decimation	asciilifeform: most 'public' schools in the us require the same, always a source of amusement for the young ones	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	most call girls can push it past 40ish if they want to	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	the call girl however can start at 12.	[06:00]
penguirker	New blog post: http://cascadianhacker.com/./blog/2014/08/29_so-you-want-to-coordinate-an-ec2-instance-and-an-rds-instance-in-a-vpc-from-scratch.html	[06:00]
penguirker	New blog post: http://cascadianhacker.com/./blog/2014/08/29_coinbase-insurance-cold-storage-uninsured-nothing-insured-against-the-government.html	[06:00]
asciilifeform	obligatory:	[06:00]
asciilifeform	!s greenspun	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	the uni prof can't start at 22.	[06:00]
assbot	16 results for 'greenspun' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=greenspun	[06:00]
kakobrekla	the problem with this search is - now there will be 18 results	[06:01]
asciilifeform	lol	[06:02]
mircea_popescu	not necessarily a problem	[06:02]
decimation	that's like grepping ps to find... your grep of ps	[06:02]
mircea_popescu	it does convey the information that the thing was searched later, and you can exclude bots if you wish.	[06:02]
kakobrekla	you can?	[06:03]
mircea_popescu	but for the average noob, history \| grep history yields a lot of... "history \| grep history"	[06:03]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla im pretty sure it had a command	[06:03]
kakobrekla	do tell	[06:03]
mircea_popescu	mthreat how did the exclusion clauses work in search agai ?	[06:04]
decimation	"Then the whole RoseArt versus Crayola battle. The kids at the Salvation Army fair got RoseArt, almost half the cost of Crayola, and that's what the vouchers covered. But the RoseArt supplies were hardly touched and the Crayola was wiped out. At the registers, the fights started over, "My kids don't want none of that RoseArt shit, are you saying they ain't good enough for the good stuff? Only white kids get the good stuff?""	[06:05]
mircea_popescu	"yes. shut up and cook me some beans"	[06:06]
asciilifeform	http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/gratitude.html << she went to lolmart	[06:08]
assbot	The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude	[06:08]
mircea_popescu	libertarian is lonely through his own fault. shoulda made a wot.	[06:08]
asciilifeform	her.	[06:09]
kakobrekla	mircea_popescu and its not the bots one wants to filter - its lines starting with '!s' and assbots replies 'x results for ..'	[06:10]
justusranvier	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26h3o8/btcd_beta_announcement/chr3a3i	[06:10]
kakobrekla	anyway i go.	[06:10]
assbot	midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement	[06:10]
decimation	hehe yeah the other link at the bottom is good too: http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-other-entitlement-class.html "We have millions of these privileged entitlement folks. They are the ones populating the Ivy League schools preparing for their rise to power over the nation. They have never worked a real job, never produced anything, never been allowed to fall on their faces, never been allowed to fail and deal with the	[06:10]
assbot	The Lonely Libertarian: The other entitlement class	[06:10]
decimation	fallout. They have no concept of reality, and sadly, most of us know them personally. "	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	She wasn't talking to me, but I could hear her saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this, they're so ugly, it's just so wrong." << woman met the orcs, hasn't even been raped yet.	[06:10]
mircea_popescu	decimation i actually don't know any personally.	[06:11]
asciilifeform	like tolkien's orcs, these were built artificially and with great care.	[06:11]
justusranvier	http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/00000000000fe8aefd4cda07e13cc54eefc71cfffbacdd82d68f97f018f939f6	[06:12]
assbot	Block 222996 - TEST Bitcoin Block Explorer	[06:12]
decimation	" The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval. "	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	"Not these chirrin, my older chirrin! They needs these for they lunches!"	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	lol	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform an orc's an orc.	[06:12]
decimation	you gotta admit the pure chutzpah of trying to buy beer with 'school supply' donations	[06:12]
justusranvier	A few hours after dhill tweeted btcd's first ever mined testnet block, somebody showed up with enough hashing power to find 100 blocks/hour and started conducting history rewriting attacks	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	(only artificial orcs exist. mp knows, for mp has lived all over the world. actual poor people are more pleasant than actual civilised people)	[06:13]
kanzure	why would someone bother doing that on testnet?	[06:13]
kanzure	seems like they would have an easier time using regtest	[06:13]
justusranvier	kanzure: Well, do don't know for sure.	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	kanzure why not ? trolling is trolling.	[06:14]
justusranvier	All we know is they had the capability to do so, and they just so happened to reorg out of existance btcd's first ever mined block, and just so happened to start doing it after they publicly announced having done so.	[06:14]
kanzure	was it only btcd's block?	[06:14]
justusranvier	The history rewriting attacks were 100+ blocks long	[06:15]
justusranvier	More than one of them	[06:15]
kanzure	that doesn't answer my question, actually	[06:15]
justusranvier	We don't know exactly at what height their block was originally mined	[06:15]
kanzure	i see	[06:15]
justusranvier	Because they didn't save it, and the blockexplorer site doesn't save orphan chains	[06:15]
*	mjr_ (~Thunderbi@190.140.190.42) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:16]
kanzure	too bad	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	the entire thing is really a meaningless exercise. who the fuck cares what happens on testnet.	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	it's not a blockchain of record.	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	it's much like natural experimentation : if unreproducible,	[06:16]
justusranvier	But they know their block wasn't bad because they submitted it to a local, isolated bitcoind before they broadcast it to the network	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	discarded.	[06:16]
justusranvier	It's just pathetic to watch the Bitcoin Core team and/or their fanboys compete on FUD when they can't compete on code quality	[06:17]
asciilifeform	re: orcs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCTL69saJVQ	[06:18]
assbot	10 Orks (subtitle eng) - YouTube	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	justusranvier lol they can't compete on fud, this is a long established point.	[06:18]
justusranvier	They are trying, though	[06:18]
mircea_popescu	i dun see it.	[06:19]
mircea_popescu	gotta let people have fun, what.	[06:19]
justusranvier	So some companies, including mining pools, are interested in running btcd. For some reason, said companies sometimes ask the Bitcoin Core team for advice before doing so. FUD ensues.	[06:20]
mircea_popescu	you're really making too much of this.	[06:21]
justusranvier	I'm not sure what you mean.	[06:21]
mircea_popescu	can you see why reorging some new guy's block out of this world is funny ?	[06:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00085394 = 10.6743 BTC [+] {2}	[06:22]
justusranvier	Oh that? Of course I can see how it's funny. The pathetic part is how people lie about what happened.	[06:22]
mircea_popescu	so people have issues with humor, what. i dun care, you dun care, foggedaboutit	[06:23]
decimation	asciilifeform: lol	[06:23]
*	altoz (~altoz@cpe-24-55-50-180.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:23]
mircea_popescu	!up altoz	[06:23]
-assbot-	You voiced altoz for 30 minutes.	[06:23]
*	assbot gives voice to altoz	[06:23]
altoz	hey mircea	[06:24]
mircea_popescu	hey unknown person from the interwebs	[06:24]
asciilifeform	'conformal' smells suspiciously like a 'good-cop' half of a 'good-cop / bad-cop' act.	[06:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform whay, just because old dod contractor ?	[06:24]
asciilifeform	nope.	[06:24]
mircea_popescu	using a sexy language and being generally sane ?	[06:25]
asciilifeform	yes.	[06:25]
decimation	asciilifeform: why not focus on producing a readable RFC first is the question..	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	you are ALSO making too much of it :D	[06:25]
asciilifeform	plus continuing with 'the code is the spec' derpatron.	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	that's a forced mistake.	[06:25]
mircea_popescu	what are they going to do, write out a spec then have the bitcoind horde pretend "it fails" ?	[06:26]
mircea_popescu	forcing specification through mutually disjunct implementations is the best we get.	[06:26]
asciilifeform	i must confess that the conformal/power-ranger war does not concern me personally, because 'happy is the man who has one leg, one sock doesn't tear, one boot isn't needed' - and i intend to solve the pertinent problem with own hands before it begins to concern me personally.	[06:27]
mircea_popescu	which is why i took exception to the "why cant we all get along" derpage from midnightmagic yest.	[06:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform a sound approach.	[06:28]
mircea_popescu	as i was saying earlier : so has erryone.	[06:28]
justusranvier	Speaking of specs, davec found parts of bitcoind script validation that involved behavior undefined by the C++ spec, meaning it's theoritically possible to compile it with a non-gcc compiler and get two bitcoinds that will fork on a carefully-crafted transactions.	[06:28]
*	guest8374 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)	[06:28]
mircea_popescu	justusranvier "code is the spec" means "the compiler we use is the spec" too.	[06:28]
decimation	because the code wasn't machine code or MIX...	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	mix dun werk.	[06:29]
asciilifeform	not only google, but apple, and microshit before them, turned away from traditional 'gcc' suite and proclaimed elaborate crud in its place. i could only ever assume - for ease of 'thompsoning' people.	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	for that matter, fucking machine code dun werk.	[06:29]
decimation	indeed, one must then blindly trust the logic designer and chip maker	[06:30]
asciilifeform	the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.	[06:31]
decimation	asciilifeform: I thought apple was trying to get on board with LLVM	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	this can be a decent graduate exercise. "write the longest asm program that does the same thing on all platforms. you may pick what it does yourself."	[06:31]
asciilifeform	''	[06:31]
*	asciilifeform wins	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	exactly. a succession of "sleep"	[06:31]
asciilifeform	nah, a string of zero length.	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	(the point being not to win, but like in any koan, to contemplate what the win means)	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	~longest~	[06:32]
asciilifeform	longest.	[06:32]
*	asciilifeform assumed 'platforms' include all known cpu archs	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	lol	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	i was (in retrospect, mistakenly) taking an "observable" approach to "same thing"	[06:33]
decimation	supposedly gcc was made intentionally obscure so that stallman can use it as a crowbar	[06:34]
asciilifeform	for your puzzle, famous example - http://code.google.com/p/corkami << grep for 'polyglot'	[06:34]
assbot	corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting	[06:34]
asciilifeform	decimation: crowbar ?	[06:34]
decimation	people just copy & paste the whole thing with GPL to all platforms	[06:35]
asciilifeform	versus what ?	[06:35]
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decimation	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2014#458755	[06:37]
assbot	Logged on 24-01-2014 22:15:54; nubbins`: http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/01/24/1838241/fsfs-richard-stallman-calls-llvm-a-terrible-setback	[06:37]
decimation	"The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"	[06:37]
asciilifeform	it was a terrible setback, though not for the reasons herr stallman gives	[06:37]
asciilifeform	because http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815988	[06:38]
assbot	Logged on 30-08-2014 03:30:44; asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.	[06:38]
decimation	asciilifeform: because better compiler = more people thinking they don't have to understand what the machine is doing?	[06:38]
asciilifeform	decimation: when 'better compiler' sits on 'same old cpu' - yes	[06:39]
decimation	Sounds legit. kinda like the existence of google translate is given as a reason not to learn another language	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	uh no it's not	[06:39]
mircea_popescu	it's a good entrypoint	[06:40]
asciilifeform	it's such a bad entry point that it probably encourages folks to study languages.	[06:40]
*	assbot gives voice to altoz	[06:40]
decimation	yeah, I agree. for me, it's motivating when I see how shitty its output looks, and it makes me want to translate more	[06:40]
asciilifeform	showcases how little the 'dictionary approach' gives.	[06:40]
decimation	now with idioms!	[06:41]
asciilifeform	back to subject - imho btc client is 'safety critical code' - but none of the existing implementations rise to even the most basic standard for such.	[06:42]
decimation	asciilifeform: do you mean to separate "btc client" from "btc node"?	[06:43]
asciilifeform	that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do.	[06:43]
asciilifeform	node.	[06:43]
*	asciilifeform is in the process of meeting this standard for a different application, and it is very labour-intensive. but necessary.	[06:43]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[06:44]
asciilifeform	just as with the discovery of ionizing radiation, people suffer needlessly because they 'intuitively' believe that invisible thing can't kill them	[06:45]
asciilifeform	somehow everyone understands that parachute, airplane, etc. have to be designed in certain ways - but mention programs? and 'you're a nut'	[06:45]
decimation	or inversely they believe that it's everywhere and out to get them.	[06:46]
asciilifeform	entropy, at least, -is- always out to get you.	[06:46]
asciilifeform	pick an arbitrary bit in memory image of 'bitcoind.'	[06:46]
asciilifeform	flip.	[06:46]
asciilifeform	contest / student exercise - find the most interesting one.	[06:47]
asciilifeform	your choice of cpu.	[06:47]
decimation	next step: find out how to flip that bit in said machine running with crap-o-soft os	[06:47]
*	MiningBuddy (~msn@unaffiliated/miningbuddy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:48]
asciilifeform	not even speaking of enemy action here	[06:48]
asciilifeform	just the now-ubiquitous non-error-correcting memory.	[06:48]
*	Lycerion_ (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:48]
decimation	probably the majority of btc nodes run non-ecc ram	[06:48]
asciilifeform	example:	[06:48]
asciilifeform	!s bitsquatting	[06:48]
assbot	0 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitsquatting	[06:48]
asciilifeform	;;google bitsquatting	[06:49]
gribble	Bitsquatting: DNS Hijacking without exploitation - dinaburg.org: ; Bitsquatting - [media.blackhat.com] - Audio and Video from Black Hat: ; Examining the Bitsquatting Attack Surface - Cisco Blog:	[06:49]
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*	Lycerion_ is now known as Lycerion	[06:50]
decimation	the fun version of this would be to squat on a domain predicted to be used by a popular bot	[06:50]
*	asciilifeform might have confessed before - is running 7+ yr. old hardware, because non-intel ECC hardware has become virtually unobtainable	[06:51]
*	decimation has an HP amd-based 'microserver' with ecc ram	[06:52]
asciilifeform	decimation: popular bot << no need for 'bitsquat' here. most of the clever sort of botnet use domains generated weekly, based on time of day. but, clever folks also use rsa signatures for payload auth.	[06:52]
decimation	asciilifeform: wouldn't there be an "id trail" from the registrar to the bot herder?	[06:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00085345 = 7.3823 BTC [-] {2}	[06:53]
asciilifeform	decimation: at least a few registrars take btc and don't ask too many questions	[06:53]
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decimation	even with payload crypto it would be interesting to watch the incoming packets	[06:54]
asciilifeform	decimation: you can watch all you like - run a 'tor' exit.	[06:54]
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*	decimation does not want to become a zek	[06:56]
asciilifeform	decimation: if you have a strict isp, do it in one of those 'nature preserves' where it is officially encouraged (e.g. 'amazon ec2')	[06:58]
asciilifeform	but must understand, this is likely a popular 'sport' and anything you see - will have been seen by plenty of others	[06:59]
decimation	perhaps I could change the bitcoin addresses to something friendly :) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-01-2014#435478	[07:00]
assbot	Logged on 03-01-2014 03:15:35; asciilifeform: there are tor exits silently pumping ascii through 'sed' or the like, slipping 'friendly' btc addrs in place of originals.	[07:00]
asciilifeform	must assume this happens, whether 'tor' or simply playful isp / backbone operator	[07:01]
asciilifeform	see also earlier discussion of swallowing rsa signatures of people you don't know	[07:01]
asciilifeform	same applies here	[07:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9425 @ 0.00084908 = 8.0026 BTC [-]	[07:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00084905 = 3.2654 BTC [-]	[07:36]
mircea_popescu	that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach.	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	we're decentralized over here.	[08:00]
mircea_popescu	difference being, between how a soviet rocket works and how a school of salmon works.	[08:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18372 @ 0.00084825 = 15.584 BTC [-] {4}	[08:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00084497 = 3.4035 BTC [-]	[08:03]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: thing is - these salmon want - a rocket. and so will have to do some things they're unaccustomed to.	[08:30]
asciilifeform	while remaining salmon, sure.	[08:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18869 @ 0.00084497 = 15.9437 BTC [-]	[08:33]
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*	assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo	[08:45]
BingoBoingo	The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption	[08:46]
cazalla	well, they do swim against the current	[09:02]
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ben_vulpes	http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26h3o8/btcd_beta_announcement/chub4sp << forks are great yo quit bitching	[09:15]
assbot	midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement	[09:15]
ben_vulpes	forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable.	[09:15]
ben_vulpes	"Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm.	[09:20]
ben_vulpes	" My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen	[09:23]
ben_vulpes	"I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations.	[09:25]
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*	assbot gives voice to Vexual	[09:29]
ben_vulpes	evening vex	[09:31]
Vexual	'evening good sir	[09:32]
ben_vulpes	great logs tonight	[09:35]
*	ben_vulpes applauds	[09:35]
ben_vulpes	top notch	[09:35]
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mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes how's the coffee ?	[09:40]
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*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[09:51]
punkman	dobro jutro	[09:52]
Vexual	hi punk	[09:59]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00084497 = 13.3505 BTC [-]	[10:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8076 @ 0.0008495 = 6.8606 BTC [+]	[10:06]
punkman	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco4z98nIQY	[10:09]
assbot	Parov Stelar - Booty Swing - YouTube	[10:09]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker	[10:14]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 503.06, Best ask: 504.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.67000, Last trade: 504.0, 24 hour volume: 7779.59236845, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 507.673992263	[10:14]
BingoBoingo	%v	[10:14]
atcbot	[X-BT VWAP] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 30d-Vol: 1.64M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 197	[10:14]
BingoBoingo	%t	[10:14]
atcbot	[X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A	[10:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23999999 = 0.72 BTC [+]	[10:15]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:19]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[10:24]
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pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours!	[10:26]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp. << sounds aboot like http://contravex.com/2014/07/31/y-combinator-the-american-idol-of-venture-capital/ but less original	[10:27]
assbot	Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[10:27]
pete_dushenski	also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good!	[10:30]
BingoBoingo	http://www.coindesk.com/charlie-shrem-hopes-walk-free-guilty-plea-deal/	[10:33]
assbot	Charlie Shrem Hopes to Walk Free After Guilty Plea Deal	[10:33]
pete_dushenski	https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/505534170916225024	[10:33]
assbot	Mr. /CharlieShrem, in taking it in the pooper like so http://t.co/qZe3na3Zd7 only proved his mousy illiteracy http://t.co/556Zm8Lku4	[10:33]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: you win	[10:33]
pete_dushenski	this round	[10:33]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Win what?	[10:34]
pete_dushenski	the marbles	[10:34]
Vexual	your link post arrived first	[10:35]
pete_dushenski	https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/505377483798368256	[10:35]
assbot	German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists. http://t.co/DVwZQpOrnk (ger)	[10:35]
pete_dushenski	mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/#comment-106873 >> lmao check out douchecanoe << ;-)	[10:36]
assbot	Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[10:36]
pete_dushenski	Vexual: o hey	[10:36]
pete_dushenski	so sydney...	[10:36]
pete_dushenski	hipster spots are fine, but classics are better	[10:37]
Vexual	i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm	[10:37]
pete_dushenski	well… have. and yes.	[10:37]
pete_dushenski	more looking for something unique	[10:38]
Vexual	get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs	[10:38]
Vexual	find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong	[10:40]
pete_dushenski	http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g552124-d949190-Reviews-Doyles_on_the_Wharf-Watsons_Bay_Woollahra_Greater_Sydney_New_South_Wales.html << this one?	[10:40]
assbot	Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor	[10:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9424 @ 0.00085299 = 8.0386 BTC [+] {2}	[10:40]
Vexual	prolly	[10:41]
pete_dushenski	http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g255060-d5084700-Reviews-Dixon_House_Food_Court-Sydney_New_South_Wales.html	[10:41]
assbot	Dixon House Food Court Restaurant Reviews, Sydney, Australia - TripAdvisor	[10:41]
pete_dushenski	aite	[10:41]
pete_dushenski	so far so good.	[10:42]
Vexual	at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel	[10:42]
Vexual	old cobbled streets, these days with lights	[10:43]
Vexual	then theres a jazz spot a stumble away, where you can drink all the martinis	[10:43]
Vexual	they all have halal options, and if you dont get jazz, they play blues	[10:44]
cazalla	check out "the block" at redfern	[10:46]
pete_dushenski	yum.	[10:46]
cazalla	Vexual will vouch it's tops	[10:46]
*	cryptoflood (~cryptoflo@138.229.221.68) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:47]
pete_dushenski	lolk	[10:47]
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*	MiningBuddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[10:48]
Vexual	gentrified by hipsters these days	[10:49]
pete_dushenski	the block is the aboriginal thing?	[10:49]
pete_dushenski	http://www.sbs.com.au/theblock/diane.html#/diane	[10:49]
assbot	Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary	[10:49]
Vexual	youll also find cafes, tech startups, and old gangsters	[10:50]
Vexual	when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence	[10:51]
pete_dushenski	woa	[10:52]
pete_dushenski	we're not staying far from there	[10:52]
Vexual	dont high five any cops	[10:52]
pete_dushenski	we're just at the south tip of hyde park	[10:53]
pete_dushenski	unless the cops high five me...	[10:53]
Vexual	:) it's all good	[10:53]
cazalla	redfern isn't what it was so don't worry too much	[10:53]
Vexual	when are you going?	[10:54]
Vexual	ive excluded dinner spots over 2btc with waiting lists	[10:55]
pete_dushenski	december	[10:55]
cazalla	drop bears in season	[10:55]
Vexual	sydney is hot in december	[10:56]
pete_dushenski	lol so i hear	[10:56]
Vexual	melb might be hotter?	[10:57]
cazalla	not unless heatwave	[10:58]
Vexual	if you wanna go 5 star you vould try quay	[10:59]
pete_dushenski	historical averages have melbourne 5-10C warmer	[10:59]
pete_dushenski	quay looks seriously premium	[11:01]
cazalla	melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney	[11:03]
cazalla	winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course	[11:04]
Vexual	wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty	[11:04]
cazalla	tbh i'd fuck sydney/melbourne off and go to tassie	[11:04]
Vexual	er sexy	[11:04]
Vexual	foodies paradise	[11:05]
pete_dushenski	“All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”	[11:08]
pete_dushenski	“Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.	[11:08]
pete_dushenski	“Because I was afraid.”	[11:08]
Vexual	king island cheese	[11:09]
pete_dushenski	who doesn't like a fine cheese?	[11:09]
Vexual	not i	[11:10]
pete_dushenski	;;google tassie	[11:10]
gribble	Tassie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; The Silver Tassie (play) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Urban Dictionary: Tassie:	[11:10]
cazalla	bruny island cheese nicer	[11:10]
Vexual	ooh	[11:10]
Vexual	never tried	[11:10]
pete_dushenski	a yes. tasmania.	[11:10]
cazalla	Vexual http://www.brunyislandcheese.com.au	[11:10]
assbot	Bruny Island Cheese :: home	[11:10]
Vexual	goo in pinot and vine leaves? yes please	[11:12]
pete_dushenski	just looking up ferries from melbourne to tassie: 10.5 hours!	[11:15]
Vexual	your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there	[11:15]
cazalla	pete_dushenski, bring you own food if you ever take spirit of tasmania	[11:16]
cazalla	Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in	[11:16]
pete_dushenski	plus bruny island's shop is clear on the other side of the island from devonport	[11:16]
pete_dushenski	http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department	[11:16]
assbot	L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker	[11:16]
cazalla	you can always fly to hobart	[11:17]
Vexual	cazalla, they prolly already have rabbits there	[11:17]
cazalla	Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there	[11:18]
cazalla	taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat	[11:19]
Vexual	anyone vauum packing them and flying them to resturants?	[11:19]
Vexual	yeah eat em and get new ones	[11:19]
cazalla	dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs	[11:19]
Vexual	theres costs, and theres value	[11:20]
cazalla	i think it's due to calici and costs of vax	[11:20]
cazalla	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmAGX9J3HlE	[11:21]
assbot	Rabbit meat farms disappear due to virus and costs - YouTube	[11:21]
Vexual	i guess you dont have that problem in your backyard	[11:21]
cazalla	not yet	[11:21]
Vexual	well it couldnt get in	[11:21]
Vexual	but you know about intensive farming	[11:21]
Vexual	a terrier run around the paddock should do the same as suburbia	[11:22]
Vexual	put your house in the middle	[11:22]
Vexual	get some plum trees and do plum rabbit	[11:23]
cazalla	that sounds yum	[11:23]
cazalla	when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild	[11:24]
Vexual	).05bc, air express	[11:24]
cazalla	i sell you?	[11:25]
Vexual	learn bees too	[11:25]
Vexual	yeah ill buy	[11:25]
cazalla	not worth my time at .05	[11:25]
Vexual	yeah, but in time	[11:25]
cazalla	i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here	[11:26]
Vexual	my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding	[11:26]
cazalla	how much do they charge?	[11:27]
Vexual	i think its just south of 10 bucks a kilo	[11:27]
cazalla	that's cheap, prob intensively farmed	[11:28]
Vexual	and thats a long transport	[11:28]
Vexual	how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild?	[11:29]
punkman	wild doesnt have zone	[11:29]
cazalla	i figured like 1/4 acre or something	[11:29]
punkman	you ever try wild hare?	[11:29]
Vexual	:) some of these cattle stations could call their beef wild	[11:29]
cazalla	punkman, no but i'd like to	[11:30]
Vexual	never tried hare	[11:30]
cazalla	red meat yeah?	[11:30]
punkman	yeah all dark meat	[11:30]
Vexual	arent they just big rabbits?	[11:30]
Vexual	oh	[11:30]
cazalla	nah they are totally difference	[11:31]
cazalla	different even	[11:31]
punkman	I'm not really sure about the taxonomy	[11:31]
punkman	but they are considered a delicacy around here, cuz we ate them all	[11:31]
Vexual	lol	[11:31]
Vexual	there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is	[11:32]
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Vexual	you'll prolly get a fucking government grant	[11:33]
cazalla	it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves	[11:34]
punkman	haven't heard of anyone farming them	[11:35]
punkman	they don't like a crowd	[11:37]
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Vexual	terriers will keep em lean	[11:38]
Vexual	and they wont dig out	[11:39]
Vexual	cheap ammo for harvest:wild	[11:40]
Vexual	thats less like fraud than spoofing your bitcoin client version	[11:44]
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pete_dushenski	;;rate ben_vulpes 3 runs van-ads live from the 504	[11:57]
gribble	Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ben_vulpes has changed from 1 to 3.	[11:57]
pete_dushenski	ey looks like stephane dun approved of my translation. i'll take it!	[11:59]
pete_dushenski	http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/#comment-7884	[11:59]
assbot	InfoSec Education: Because Stphane Bortzmeyer Is Lazy. And I’m Not. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski	[11:59]
Vexual	lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz	[12:00]
Naphex	http://i.imgur.com/gDohTUB.png - I call this artistic chart, "Saved By The Cache" :)	[12:02]
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Vexual	oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10	[12:03]
pete_dushenski	Vexual: nice. ty.	[12:04]
cazalla	all made in china	[12:05]
cazalla	this the markets Vexual?	[12:06]
Vexual	i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes	[12:06]
pete_dushenski	time for sleeps. g'night b-a!	[12:08]
Vexual	Naphex: what site? looks similar to "spam fail"	[12:08]
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BingoBoingo	http://www.theonion.com/articles/were-going-to-enjoy-this-cocainefueled-mason-jar-r,36779/	[12:12]
assbot	Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts \| The Onion - America's Finest News Source	[12:12]
BingoBoingo	http://www.theonion.com/articles/researchers-panda-faked-pregnancy-to-get-more-bamb,36809/	[12:13]
assbot	Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo \| The Onion - America's Finest News Source	[12:13]
Vexual	nothing quite like the onion	[12:15]
BingoBoingo	Better than the Times	[12:15]
Vexual	full fucking effect	[12:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085477 = 9.6162 BTC [+] {2}	[12:22]
Vexual	only chinese vets could claim a panda faked a pregnancy	[12:27]
Vexual	the actual pregnat panda, the one that pissed on the stich has been hung	[12:30]
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Vexual	;;google erowid mason jar	[12:41]
gribble	Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : Bong & Pipe FAQ: ; Erowid Mushroom Vaults : Cultivation Tips: ; Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Storage in CO2:	[12:41]
Vexual	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAOR6ib95kQ	[12:43]
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Vexual	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQLAhNlbfQ reverse cronology and the price of safrole	[13:09]
kakobrekla	dobro jutro < lol what got into you	[13:23]
punkman	feeling balkan today	[13:25]
Vexual	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2qcbu26gs	[13:27]
kakobrekla	well dobro jutro to you too ;)	[13:27]
Vexual	what time is it there kako?	[13:28]
kakobrekla	12.27	[13:28]
Vexual	bacon or bacon?	[13:28]
kakobrekla	spam	[13:29]
Vexual	my heart	[13:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1229 @ 0.00085473 = 1.0505 BTC [-]	[13:30]
cazalla	http://nationalreport.net/15-year-old-swatted-domestic-terrorism/	[13:31]
assbot	15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report \| National Report	[13:31]
cazalla	i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies	[13:32]
punkman	http://nationalreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swatted.png	[13:33]
Vexual	i dunno why he's crying, outcomes coulda been worse	[13:33]
punkman	maybe they are tired of all the swatting	[13:34]
kakobrekla	coulda been wrose?	[13:35]
kakobrekla	worse*	[13:35]
kakobrekla	like what, life in prison?	[13:35]
punkman	http://stopmasturbationnow.org/lexicon/merriam-webster-adds-anti-masturbation-word-to-their-dictionary-fapstinence/	[13:38]
assbot	Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE \| Stop Masturbation Now	[13:38]
cazalla	it's fake btw	[13:38]
Vexual	its a job	[13:38]
cazalla	not that, the swatting article	[13:39]
Vexual	yeah, they might have told him about the"fucking with the police" ward	[13:40]
kakobrekla	what is this another onion ?	[13:40]
Vexual	everythings onion	[13:40]
cazalla	yeah, sorry kakobrekla, Vexual is right	[13:41]
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Vexual	not quite	[13:42]
Vexual	but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love	[13:45]
cazalla	!s nationalreport.net	[13:45]
assbot	1 results for 'nationalreport.net' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nationalreport.net	[13:45]
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BingoBoingo	kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories.	[13:47]
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jurov	;;later tell MolokoDesk if tao_jones has working replacement of ;;calc I am all for having it here	[13:49]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[13:49]
RagnarDanneskjol	yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others	[13:50]
RagnarDanneskjol	http://bit.ly/1a6QBcq	[13:50]
assbot	Tao_Jones Quickstart	[13:50]
RagnarDanneskjol	I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend	[13:51]
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kakobrekla	BingoBoingo sounded like texas to me	[13:51]
Vexual	.bait	[13:51]
BingoBoingo	;;bait	[13:53]
gribble	Error: "bait" is not a valid command.	[13:53]
BingoBoingo	!bait	[13:53]
kakobrekla	just use the fly fishing rod.	[13:53]
BingoBoingo	!t m s.limbs	[13:54]
assbot	Quest for vision is a great blessing.	[13:54]
Vexual	either was my wrist hurts	[13:54]
Vexual	i see ykyo there lurking	[13:59]
Vexual	dya think he might develop a sense of humour?	[14:00]
fluffypony	!up csshih	[14:05]
fluffypony	;;ident	[14:06]
gribble	Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!~fluffypon@coreteam.monero.cc', is not identified.	[14:06]
fluffypony	oh	[14:06]
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Vexual	missgivings aside theres lessons unleant	[14:06]
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fluffypony	!up csshih	[14:06]
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fluffypony	csshih: ping	[14:06]
csshih	fluffypony, hi	[14:07]
Vexual	!down fluffy pony	[14:07]
Vexual	bwahah	[14:07]
fluffypony	csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles?	[14:07]
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csshih	zebralight dominates in that category imo	[14:09]
csshih	you looking for high-ish cri?	[14:09]
fluffypony	yeah	[14:09]
fluffypony	it's definitely the brightest	[14:09]
Vexual	grown legs? what do your dogs do?	[14:09]
fluffypony	and 4 day run time at 2.1 Lm is insane	[14:09]
fluffypony	Vexual: we're talking about flashlights, not dogs :-P	[14:10]
Vexual	grown legs means gone?	[14:11]
fluffypony	yes	[14:11]
Vexual	presumably stolen	[14:12]
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fluffypony	yeah I would imagine so	[14:12]
Vexual	u might need something with d's	[14:13]
Vexual	and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee	[14:14]
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kakobrekla	!up Ukyo	[14:16]
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kakobrekla	so how come you are still here?	[14:16]
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Vexual	lol anus	[14:22]
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Vexual	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVAetFthS9Y	[14:25]
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jurov	[02:52:59] but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. << hahaha. actually, we kept original design done by scrat	[14:28]
kakobrekla	did you have another design done?	[14:28]
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kakobrekla	;;tslb	[14:30]
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gribble	Time since last block: 35 minutes and 50 seconds	[14:30]
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Vexual	;;later tell ben_vulpes http://www.supremenewyork.com/interviews/lee_perry	[14:32]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[14:32]
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Vexual	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju-Hedh8Tdw	[14:39]
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jurov	kakobrekla, only tuned logo so far	[15:01]
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wyrdmantis	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=762346.0	[15:35]
wyrdmantis	adding more confusion	[15:37]
wyrdmantis	http://www.jl777.org/darkpaper-teleport-revealed/	[15:39]
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mircea_popescu	wyrdmantis "blablablabla i am an idiot tralalala". fify.	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	dude needs to take his pills.	[16:18]
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mircea_popescu	cazalla: i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies << lawl	[16:24]
*	AndChat\|679296 is now known as RagnarsBitch	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	http://nationalreport.net/15-year-old-swatted-domestic-terrorism/ <<< police charges unrelated 15 yo for their shooting of a guy whose home they were invading.	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	such a wow us.	[16:27]
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mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo "Just because metaphysics creaks on as a sub-discipline in Philosophy because of disputes in the nuance of what "is" precisely is, does not " << you can't chain the two different types of because like that.	[16:46]
*	danielpbarron (~dpb@c-71-232-150-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:46]

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