Forum logs for 30 Aug 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [03:36]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [03:36]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [03:36]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [03:36]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [03:36]
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mircea_popescu RagnarDanneskjol well like nao [03:37]
RagnarDanneskjol pmming momentarily [03:42]
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mircea_popescu lycerion ce din genuni rasari cu-o-ntreaga lume, [03:43]
mircea_popescu nu cere fapte si minuni care n-au chip si nume. [03:43]
RagnarDanneskjol !up MolokoDeck [03:44]
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mircea_popescu >> lmao check out douchecanoe [03:46]
assbot Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [03:46]
mircea_popescu i mean contravex [03:46]
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mircea_popescu le [03:47]
mircea_popescu whoops [03:47]
MolokoDeck hello. [03:48]
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mircea_popescu MolokoDeck hey. so as i was telling RagnarDanneskjol, i have no problem covering you if you can deliver the thing by what was it, end of sept ? [03:49]
MolokoDeck ready to talk about details for completing the cryptocontract bot. most of the unit tests are in place, but it's a good idea to fill in any desiderata or necessities to reasonable detail. [03:50]
ben_vulpes hey does anyone have a link to that thing where coinbase straight up blocks certain addrs? [03:50]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell peterl " This got me thinking about the topic, so I decided to write up some thought I had on the subject a while ago." <<< the "i decided" device is the absolute worst intro mechanism for a blog post possible. it connotes this guy : [03:50]
gribble The operation succeeded. [03:50]
assbot Cred ca pe alocuri se exagereaza pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [03:50]
MolokoDeck end of september seems easily doable to have a working version going and available as source in a GIT repository. [03:50]
mircea_popescu cool. [03:50]
mircea_popescu so tell me again what you think this is, best way to go about thisa [03:51]
MolokoDeck one wants to time-stamp and "notarize" documents that are signed by counterparties with verifiable cryptosignatures registered with #bitcoin-otc WebOfTrust. [03:52]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell peterl otherwise, the point that "bitcoin is the chosen" by the very code is quite sound and an intelligent way to go about it. [03:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [03:52]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck nevermind what one wants, say what the thing does. [03:52]
MolokoDeck a bot would sit in whatever channel (this one) and someone would invoke it with something like .notarize http://domian.tld/contract_0001.txt nick1, nick2, nick3 ... nickN [03:53]
mircea_popescu no. [03:53]
MolokoDeck the bot would respond that all of the cryptosignatures of the listed nicks were registered with #bitocin-otc, their public key hashes matched and all the signatures were good. [03:53]
mircea_popescu it would extract the nicks from the signatures in the .txt. the mechanism to do this relies on gribble, did you see that ping ? [03:54]
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MolokoDeck then the bot would return an SHA256 hash of the document, encode it as a bitcoin address and make a minimum non-spendable transaction, and log to a repository or blog the document with the sha256 hash and the transaction ID containing the encoded hash, and the block number it's in. It would wait to get a confirmation before doing this so the transaction would be in the blockchain. [03:55]
RagnarDanneskjol i think we;re still one step off here molo [03:55]
MolokoDeck if the signatures could be extracted from the document without knowing the corresponding public key, which I'm getting out of the public key registry that wot uses, that would be good. [03:56]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck it cabn, gimme a sec to find the solution. [03:56]
MolokoDeck but so far I haven't dug in enough to know if that's doable given command line GPG, I think you have to validate against a public key. [03:56]
mircea_popescu in the endless desert of logs [03:56]
RagnarDanneskjol so much lawgs [03:56]
mircea_popescu !s nick from:gribble [03:57]
assbot 1190 results for 'nick from:gribble' : [03:57]
MolokoDeck simply having valid signatures doesn't guarantee that the people who made the contract signed it. which is why I'm using wot as an authority to find the registered keys for the parties asserted to have been signatories. [03:57]
mircea_popescu ;;seen bluemeanie4 [03:57]
gribble bluemeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: later [03:57]
ben_vulpes does anyone have a link to the lawsuit by the guy who sued the usg for the gold they 'borrowed'? [03:57]
ben_vulpes i don't even recall the name of the suit. [03:57]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck [03:58]
assbot Logged on 12-08-2014 03:25:41; gribble: (gpg info [--key|--address] ) -- Returns the registration details of registered user . If '--key' option is given, interpret as a GPG key ID. [03:58]
mircea_popescu ;;ident [03:58]
gribble Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is identified as user 'mircea_popescu', with GPG key id 8A736F0E2FB7B452, key fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None [03:58]
mircea_popescu ;;gpginfo --key 0E2FB7B452 [03:58]
gribble Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command. [03:58]
MolokoDeck since the idea of a cryptocontract is that it's unenforceable and the value of performing as per the contract is one's reputation, it seemed important to make sure the claimed signatories are probably the signatories. [03:58]
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mircea_popescu ;;gpg info --key 0E2FB7B452 [03:58]
gribble No such user registered. [03:58]
mircea_popescu grr [03:58]
mircea_popescu ;;gpg info --key 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 [03:59]
gribble No such user registered. [03:59]
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MolokoDeck I can show you the unit tests doing that. [03:59]
MolokoDeck not sure I want the test server's URL going into a channel log though. [03:59]
mircea_popescu ;;gpg info --key 8A736F0E2FB7B452 [03:59]
gribble User 'mircea_popescu', with keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452, fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None, registered on Fri Jul 22 08:39:10 2011, last authed on Fri Aug 29 20:36:13 2014. . Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu . [03:59]
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mircea_popescu there! [03:59]
ben_vulpes you can message gribble privately, MolokoDeck [03:59]
MolokoDeck actually, if one invites Tao_Jones in here and voices the bot some of these functions already work. [03:59]
RagnarDanneskjol he already jas it implemented in his bot [03:59]
MolokoDeck right, I could use gribble as an API. [04:00]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck so basically, bot reads each document, extracts declared sig, puts it to gribble [04:00]
mircea_popescu this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya [04:00]
MolokoDeck instead I'm using the wot API and the associated public key server, adding the public key to the bot's keyring each time a contract is validated, then verifying the signatures. [04:00]
MolokoDeck I presume gribble uses the wot api. [04:00]
MolokoDeck ok. so you want to use gribble as an open agent. [04:01]
MolokoDeck that's fine and easier. [04:01]
MolokoDeck the way i've done it makes it somewhat stand-alone. if the public key registry is replaced it would be general cryptocontracts. [04:01]
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mircea_popescu so i figure why no give clueless noobs a chance. send an order " << find the afterparty". half hour later, "i can't find anything. nobody is sayinga word on sm, there's ONE picture of a guy and some wine on twitter without enough background to find where it is or anything". [04:01]
assbot Hacks/Hackers BA Media Party, Buenos Aires, Argentina [04:01]
mircea_popescu all these fucking successful derps for crying out loud. [04:02]
MolokoDeck ok. not having to sweat keyring security seems a good idea since everyone trusts gribble. [04:02]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck yup. [04:02]
ben_vulpes what's the "no congress shall be held to the agreements of a previous congress" citation? [04:02]
* #bitcoin-assets :You're not a channel operator [04:02]
ben_vulpes regarding borrowing gold and refusing to pay it back? [04:03]
ben_vulpes i'm dying here halp pl [04:03]
ben_vulpes zlp [04:03]
mircea_popescu ;;google trilema story endless korea [04:03]
ben_vulpes zplzplpzlpzlpz [04:03]
gribble Decembrie 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; ZoneHedge Wow. Such Durden. Much info. About useless ... - Trilema: ; Understanding Argentina's Coming Default, For Real This ... - Trilema: [04:03]
MolokoDeck what is of concern is that to make a valid transaction to the bitcoin blockchain one has to manage a web wallet. The first cut is going to use since they have a simple API that includes the testnet (which I'm using in such a rudimentary way it doesn't matter whether it's obsolete features exist or not. the subset of features is common to the latest bitcoind) [04:03]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck so what's the concern ? [04:03]
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ben_vulpes john m kerry thanks mircea_popescu ! [04:03]
MolokoDeck probably none, other than that the software has to store the passphrase somewhere. like... on a server. [04:04]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it goes back all the fucking way to 1930. [04:04]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck it's never going to own more than a bitcent or w/e [04:04]
MolokoDeck or if the bot is started with a shell command the parameters end up in the process list. [04:04]
mircea_popescu if someone breaks in and steals the bitcent, hey, more power to them. [04:04]
MolokoDeck yeah, it's like 5 cents a document, about the cost of a xerox copy. [04:04]
mircea_popescu ok, so say what the thing is again, let's see if i say yes this time. [04:05]
MolokoDeck so the wallet just has to have a few centiBTC in it at a time. [04:05]
MolokoDeck if security concerns are de minimus I'm ready to finish it as planned. [04:05]
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RagnarDanneskjol wanna run it down one more time for clarity molo? what it does exactly [04:06]
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MolokoDeck bot sits in here. People point it at a cryptocontract with multiple signatories. it verifies the signatures. if they're good it creates an unspendable bitcoin transaction with the address encoding the SHA256 hash of the contract. When that transaction clears and is on the blockchain, it notifies the IRC channel and gives the URL of a logged copy of the document, it's associated hash, and a pointer to the blockchain transac [04:07]
MolokoDeck tion ID and/or block number. [04:07]
mircea_popescu no. [04:08]
mircea_popescu it does not verify the signatures. it merely extracts w/e signature gpg sees in the document. [04:09]
MolokoDeck it also logs the documents to some kind of repostory or blog. Knowing the preferred format and web address of that ahead of time may be good, but that's like a quick mod to make it do whatever wherever. [04:09]
mircea_popescu o, that what you meant, "verifies" via google ? [04:09]
mircea_popescu shit. via gribble i mean. [04:09]
mircea_popescu i need more coffee, amphetamines and cuntjuice over here. [04:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11905 @ 0.00085367 = 10.1629 BTC [+] {2} [04:10]
MolokoDeck searching and indexing that blog sounds like a website backend function, not part of the bot. [04:10]
* RagnarDanneskjol wonders if single use wallets are better for this [04:10]
mircea_popescu RagnarDanneskjol nah i want it to always send from the same address. [04:10]
MolokoDeck some sort of "give the bot another wallet" IRC commandline function would work for that. [04:10]
mircea_popescu no bother. [04:11]
MolokoDeck ok. so it's presumed the signatures are valid? [04:11]
mircea_popescu if gribble says so, yes. [04:11]
MolokoDeck verifies using GPG or gribble. [04:11]
RagnarDanneskjol mmk [04:11]
mircea_popescu no, not using gpg. using gribble. [04:11]
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mircea_popescu when you feed a string to gpg you either get a "nonsense" complaint or a "signed by X" response, with a warning that "we can't know who x is " [04:12]
mircea_popescu this warning we squarely ignore, because if gribble knows who x is so do we [04:12]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "Now this wasn't particularly notable at all. Now a lot of mining companies are crawling" << you are not allowed to use now as the first word in two consecutive sentences [04:15]
mircea_popescu what is this, kansas ? [04:15]
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mircea_popescu !up MolokoDeck [04:15]
-assbot- You voiced MolokoDeck for 30 minutes. [04:15]
* assbot gives voice to MolokoDeck [04:15]
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ben_vulpes gribble does sigver? [04:15]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nope. [04:16]
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MolokoDeck you need the hash of the public key ... to get that it seems you need the public key. the PGP cryptosignatures on a document are kind of opaque if you don't have the public key already, apparently it uses the public key to determine whether the signatures match the unaltered document and are from the person who owns the private key matching the public key. [04:16]
MolokoDeck at least to do what I'm already doing with it. If this is easier than that then it's as good as done. [04:16]
MolokoDeck it's easy to spiff a static address with a few satoshi. [04:16]
MolokoDeck rather than keep signing up for more addresses. [04:16]
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MolokoDeck I just sent you a link to the unit tests. [04:16]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck it's included in the signature block of the signed thing. [04:16]
ben_vulpes MolokoDeck: care to share ? [04:16]
ben_vulpes i have two whole beers to get through before i knock off for the long weekend i want to read more unit tests [04:17]
ben_vulpes hue [04:17]
mircea_popescu lol [04:17]
ben_vulpes (mircea_popescu: it's like "i find this amusing, even though nobody else probably does, or someone's trolling me, but it's not quite lolworthy") [04:17]
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ben_vulpes !s ben_vulpes lol [04:18]
assbot 25 results for 'ben_vulpes lol' : [04:18]
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RagnarDanneskjol he likes to keep things quiet until they're ready for primetime [04:18]
RagnarDanneskjol something of a coder primadonna [04:18]
MolokoDeck I think that use of "now" requires a comma in the first sentence, since it's used as a colloquialism or interjection. [04:18]
mircea_popescu no ppl i r not insane tyvm stop pming me. i am aware that through the process as described signatures never get in fact verified and one could create a colision and sign for someone else. this is not a bug, it's a fucking feature. you ARE supposed to check YOURSELF the fucking sigs if you intend to rely on the signed documents. it's the only way to implement this correctly. [04:18]
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ben_vulpes so signed by "x" does not imply that the signature is valid? [04:20]
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ben_vulpes or that the signature is valid for hash "x" but that there may be collisions? [04:20]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes gpg saying "signed by x" means nothing if you don't have x's pubkey to check. [04:20]
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mircea_popescu a point so fucking readily lost on derpjournos you wouldn't begin to believe. [04:21]
ben_vulpes what is "x" in this case - hash or name + email fields? [04:21]
mircea_popescu nsa reads like a third of their "secure" comms on this basis. [04:21]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes the keyid above. [04:21]
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mircea_popescu !up CHRIX [04:22]
-assbot- You voiced CHRIX for 30 minutes. [04:22]
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ben_vulpes hash == keyid, right? where does gpg get the hash? from the signature itself? [04:22]
mircea_popescu yes. [04:22]
ben_vulpes okay, great [04:22]
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ben_vulpes and gpg verifies that the keyid is valid for the sig? [04:23]
mircea_popescu so having a "signature apparently by 8A736F0E2FB7B452, could not verify" is one thing. "good signature from user MP 8A736F0E2FB7B452" is another thing. [04:23]
ben_vulpes in the latter case it compares the known pubkey to the sig [04:23]
ben_vulpes in the former all it does is... [04:23]
ben_vulpes can you even verify a signature without a public key? [04:24]
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asciilifeform [04:24]
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assbot RFC 4880 - OpenPGP Message Format [04:24]
mircea_popescu it compares the pubkey it has stored (and which you hopefully signed) to the shit in the hash of the signed document to establish it was not merely signed but actually signed by x. [04:24]
mircea_popescu !up MolokoDesk [04:24]
-assbot- You voiced MolokoDesk for 30 minutes. [04:24]
* assbot gives voice to MolokoDesk [04:24]
MolokoDesk that's why I'm getting the public key out of the WOT registry at: [04:24]
assbot Public Key Server -- Get "0xaf65ae980c825691 " [04:24]
mircea_popescu this is not something that may or can be centralised. [04:24]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck don't. [04:24]
MolokoDesk ok. [04:24]
mircea_popescu simply do this : separate the pastebin into individual signed bits, put each through gpg, take the apparent, unverified signer id, put it through grible to verify wot id, put it through gribble again to verify assbot linkage and you're done. [04:25]
MolokoDesk including the public keys in the document then signing it with those public keys would lock this in. [04:25]
ben_vulpes but in the case of an unknown key, pgp cannot determine if a signature is valid. [04:25]
MolokoDesk sure, that's what I wanted to do initially, get the public key from the signature. [04:26]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes all it determines is that the document formally looks like one signed by that guy. [04:26]
ben_vulpes in that there is a signature and a keyid. [04:26]
ben_vulpes gotcha. [04:26]
asciilifeform MolokoDeck: please, absolutely must, take the time to understand how pgp actually works. [04:26]
mircea_popescu just like irl, the registrar of deeds does not verify your signature, merely looks that this shitwas signed [04:26]
mircea_popescu if a matter of repudiation arises, then that is dealt with by testing the sig. [04:27]
MolokoDesk ok. can GPG extract the public key from a cryptosignature without knowing which public key was used to make the cryptosignature? [04:27]
mircea_popescu MolokoDeck it can extract a keyid from the signature block. [04:27]
MolokoDesk I didn't see any obvious way to do that. [04:27]
mircea_popescu try it. [04:27]
MolokoDesk I did, which is why I resorted to using wot's key registry. [04:27]
MolokoDesk oh it CAN extract it. [04:28]
mircea_popescu gimme a pastebin with something you signed please. [04:28]
MolokoDesk hmn. [04:28]
mircea_popescu don't make it something stupid. [04:28]
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MolokoDesk heh. I haven't tested this with documents signed by anyone else yet. sec. [04:28]
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MolokoDesk ok. is the rationale here that if counterparties signed a document, they usually know who they are and since the contract is not enforceable by an external party, only by their cooperation, it doesn't matter who actually signed it if they all know they did. [04:31]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk the signature of someone you don't know is worthless to you. [04:31]
mircea_popescu the verification of identity relies on acts by they who know who you are. [04:31]
MolokoDesk and it's provable that the contract hasn't been altered since signed and timelogged to the blockchain. [04:31]
mircea_popescu quite. [04:31]
mircea_popescu (and signed). [04:31]
MolokoDesk ok. if this is easier than what I've done so be it. [04:32]
mircea_popescu welcome to philosophically sound software design (tm). i hope to see a lot more of it in the future. [04:32]
mircea_popescu computational soundness is so 1970s. [04:32]
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decimation mircea_popescu: thinking about your definitions of socialism v. fascism, it occurs to me that one quickly leads to another [04:33]
mircea_popescu which is supported by practice. [04:33]
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decimation for example, "I demand that the the group give me a "gun free" life" becomes "give us your gun or go to the gulag" for the neighbor [04:34]
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MolokoDesk one of the many defiitions of "government" is "that faction that has a monopoly on the use of force in a geographic area" [04:36]
MolokoDesk definitiions [04:36]
mircea_popescu all the politics of infantilism, where one makes demands of god, are suddenly exposed to reality, because in either of these degenerate systems of governmance (really, sides of same coin) one actualy may entertain the delusion of it. [04:36]
mircea_popescu hence musolini's famous "i demand god strike me down" [04:36]
ben_vulpes [04:36]
assbot You are right, but if Bitcoin ever goes mainstream that kind of regulation that ... | Hacker News [04:36]
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decimation MolokoDesk: I disagree, "monopoly on violence" is a refrain of modern apologists for the state [04:37]
* contrapumpkin is now known as copumpkin [04:37]
mircea_popescu no state ever had or ever actually used any sort of "monopoly" on "violence" [04:37]
mircea_popescu first off, violence is a subjective psychogenic construct. [04:37]
MolokoDesk there's no such monopoly in practice, of course. [04:38]
mircea_popescu what one woman takes as violence another takes as courtship, a point the state is desperate to hide from the more unfortunate of youze. [04:38]
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mircea_popescu MolokoDesk ok, so one final time, to check this off. [04:39]
mircea_popescu hit me. [04:39]
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decimation re: infantilism, charity << " I watched one brave/stupid older woman approach a very large woman with six kids hanging off her cart ($420+ of free stuff), and tell her "I know gratitude is beyond you, the least you could do is be polite." The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval. [04:39]
decimation " [04:39]
assbot The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude [04:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform why is the pgp corp named twice in the rfc ? [04:40]
mircea_popescu i never noticed b4 [04:40]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i did wonder this when printed my copy [04:40]
asciilifeform my guess was - missing parentheses [04:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know you need to fix the links. [04:41]
MolokoDesk assuming everything suggested regarding validating blind signatures is doable: someone points the bot at a cryptosigned document. The bot sniffs the signatures. if all the signatures are valid for that document, it issues a transaction encoding an SHA Hash of the document, waits for the transaction to appear on the block chain, then informs the irc channel of the transaction ID, block number and a pointer to a logged copy [04:41]
MolokoDesk of the document. If the signatures flunk it tells the channel that. try again. [04:41]
decimation asciilifeform: re: djvu vs pdf << but surely you ocr your digital library [04:41]
* assbot gives voice to RagnarDanneskjol [04:41]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk what do you mean by "are valid" ? [04:41]
asciilifeform that thing is on my box as mirror, as i'm convinced that our phriends will soon begin to monkey with various documents in transit by url [04:41]
MolokoDesk GPG says the signatures are valid. [04:42]
mircea_popescu mno. [04:42]
asciilifeform (yeah i should probably sign the copy i actually read) [04:42]
mircea_popescu we're not getting too far here, lemme write it out as a formal spec. [04:42]
RagnarDanneskjol test msg [04:42]
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ben_vulpes ;;gettrust midnightmagic [04:43]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask midnightmagic!~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user midnightmagic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Mon Mar 7 15:45:54 2011 [04:43]
MolokoDesk I've basically worked up a construction kit for such a bot. I presume the set of functions I have working, or some subset of them, can be used to implement anything we've discussed here. [04:43]
mircea_popescu RagnarDanneskjol MolokoDesk [04:44]
assbot $ gpg -v -v gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - [04:44]
mircea_popescu of interest is the signature packet: algo 1, keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498 line [04:44]
ben_vulpes ;;rate midnightmagic -1 [04:44]
gribble Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system. [04:44]
mircea_popescu ;;gpg info --key 35D2E1A0457E6498 [04:44]
gribble User 'RagnarDanneskjol', with keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498, fingerprint B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498, and bitcoin address 14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6, registered on Thu Jun 5 04:07:21 2014, last authed on Fri Aug 29 21:22:04 2014. . Currently authenticated from hostmask (1 more message) [04:44]
ben_vulpes ;;eauth ben_vulpes [04:44]
gribble Request successful for user ben_vulpes, hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Get your encrypted OTP from [04:44]
MolokoDesk the only thing i haven't tested fully is spending via's api (i have the encoded wallet address already), and getting PGP keys or key IDs/hashes from a signed document without knowing the public keys already. [04:44]
mircea_popescu checked. see ? [04:44]
ben_vulpes ;;everify if we're defending against collisions, extracting keyids doesn't help much. [04:45]
gribble (everify ) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter). [04:45]
ben_vulpes ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:3848beb16b68ec5ecee1475ddbe35c09c87cb06bfa9f07946cc58571 [04:45]
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gribble You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA [04:45]
ben_vulpes ;;rate midnightmagic -1 [04:45]
gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user midnightmagic has been recorded. [04:45]
midnightmagic now what? [04:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2993 @ 0.00085148 = 2.5485 BTC [-] [04:46]
MolokoDesk ok. working backwards from the document, get the pubic key IDs of the signatories then look them up with gribble. [04:46]
mircea_popescu yup. [04:46]
mircea_popescu one sec ima write it out plainly. [04:46]
MolokoDesk that's probably the most expedient way to get what you want. [04:46]
decimation ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ? [04:47]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: is this you? [04:47]
assbot midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs [04:47]
* midnightmagic looks.. [04:47]
MolokoDesk so this is more a "bot, tell me what you know about this purported contract document, and save a copy, and if the contract isn't obviously bogus, notarize it to the blockchain with a hash" [04:48]
midnightmagic yup. [04:48]
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ben_vulpes there is no playing nice with bitcoin-core. [04:49]
MolokoDesk the unit tests grabs the keys from the public key registry every time and updates them in the keyring. that may not be what we're talking about doing now. [04:49]
ben_vulpes conformal is not misbehaving. [04:49]
RagnarDanneskjol i think the 'obviously bogus' part isn't really even a consideration [04:49]
* asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people [04:50]
ben_vulpes you're the lone positive supporter of ninjaspamgun. [04:50]
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* gives voice to fluffypony [04:50]
ben_vulpes and what is this charitable thing? [04:50]
midnightmagic I'm not his supporter. I've seen his type before. [04:50]
ben_vulpes ;;gettrust midnightmagic ninjashogun [04:50]
ben_vulpes orly gribs? [04:51]
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midnightmagic The charitable thing is the project he's involved with re: children-oriented music education. [04:51]
decimation asciilifeform: should it be in LISP? [04:51]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user midnightmagic to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014 [04:51]
asciilifeform decimation: for all i care - fortran [04:51]
asciilifeform but google proprietary crud gives me the willies. [04:52]
decimation asciilifeform: agreed. why not python? [04:52]
asciilifeform which python. [04:52]
asciilifeform the fact that i can ask this question - is my answer [04:52]
decimation heh. 2 [04:52]
decimation good point. [04:52]
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mircea_popescu MolokoDesk [04:53]
assbot Deeds bot : 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin - [04:53]
ben_vulpes pythugh [04:53]
mircea_popescu ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ? << ? [04:53]
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MolokoDesk bundling the documents every 5 minutes or so. and storing the hash of that. I was focusing too much on indivdual documents. The bundling feature was in my unit test notes. [04:54]
mircea_popescu * asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people << be fgucking thankful it's not ruby. [04:54]
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mircea_popescu MolokoDesk 1 hr. [04:55]
* assbot removes voice from MolokoDesk [04:55]
mircea_popescu !up MolokoDesk [04:55]
-assbot- You voiced MolokoDesk for 30 minutes. [04:55]
* assbot gives voice to MolokoDesk [04:55]
MolokoDesk that can be variable [04:55]
MolokoDesk I see you've specified about 1 per hour. [04:55]
mircea_popescu i'd rather have it fixed. [04:55]
mircea_popescu of course server may be under load or w/e. [04:55]
mircea_popescu but the idea is, once an hour. [04:55]
decimation mircea_popescu: I guess the question is about how much you trust the keyserver to serve valid keys [04:55]
MolokoDesk It's simple enough to parmeterize it, i didn't mean changing it from IRC. sure. [04:55]
* asciilifeform generally believes that safety-critical code must be written in such a way that auditor can see a tight correspondence between every line and what machine physically does. note that this doesn't entail 'use C!' but can also mean different machine. [04:56]
mircea_popescu mp service philosophy : "make small, absolute promises" [04:56]
decimation asciilifeform: which is why Knuth wrote MIX [04:56]
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mircea_popescu decimation at no point are keys examined in this process at all. [04:56]
mircea_popescu kinda what the whole discussion has been about [04:56]
mircea_popescu well, 80% of it anyway [04:56]
asciilifeform MIX << herr knuth wanted no 'holy war' re: why he picked architecture, nor was he interested in commercial endorsement of the existing hardware [04:57]
* assbot gives voice to chetty [04:57]
asciilifeform he was, after all, writing mathematics, not ad copy [04:57]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: The last time I was anything but civil to the ninjawhatever type, it turned into 2-year siege that culminated in .. like three (apparent) lawsuits because "ops blah blah exceeding authority blah". Why would I want to risk that a second time when it costs me virtually nothing to report on what I see? [04:57]
mircea_popescu i'd be so curious to fuck the imaginary daughter of knuth and buffett. [04:57]
MolokoDesk I see you prefer the block number to the transaction number. [04:57]
midnightmagic And conformal IS misbehaving. You go idle in their IRC channels. [04:57]
mircea_popescu sadly, gay marriage wasn't a thing then. [04:57]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: i did for quite some time. [04:58]
MolokoDesk there are multiple transactions in a block. [04:58]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk block-and-address. [04:58]
chetty The U.S. Forest Service on Friday published a nearly 700-word article on how to safely roast marshmallows, all in preparation for Saturday, which is National Roasted Marshmallow Day. [04:58]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: what is this lawsuit? [04:58]
mircea_popescu comes to fewer bytes than tx id [04:58]
mircea_popescu also, tx id is not as reliable. [04:58]
ben_vulpes oh not actually ninjashogun [04:58]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: Completely baseless, time-wasting lawsuit because bitcoins hit the multi-hundreds of dollars and random $greek_person found a lawfirm willing to launch defamation nonsense. [04:58]
MolokoDesk ok. still have to do a bit of work to find the address in the block. knowing the trasnaction ID is more specific. I'm not arguing the case, this is find. [04:58]
MolokoDesk fine. [04:58]
mircea_popescu yeah it's an extra step. [04:59]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic the one advantage of living in the us : afaik it's actually illegal to try and colect on euro defamation cases there. [04:59]
mircea_popescu might be just uk, i dun recall. [05:00]
midnightmagic Hope so. [05:00]
MolokoDesk so the burden of concatenating the document blob is done by some other agent and sent to pastebin. [05:00]
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mircea_popescu MolokoDesk that's not really your problem. one person could send five documents in one pastebin. three other people two each [05:01]
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MolokoDesk I had been intending to accumulate individual documents and bundle them periodically then announce the bundle/blog location [05:01]
mircea_popescu you've now got 11 things to string together and that's that. [05:01]
Guest2171 Guest24831 Guest25299 Guest65567 guest8374 Guest84681______ [05:01]
Guest2171 Guest24831 Guest25299 Guest65567 guest8374 Guest84681______ [05:01]
Guest2171 Guest24831 Guest25299 Guest65567 guest8374 Guest84681______ [05:01]
mircea_popescu !up guest8374 [05:01]
-assbot- You voiced guest8374 for 30 minutes. [05:01]
* assbot gives voice to guest8374 [05:01]
MolokoDesk yeah, if this is finally it there's not much more to say, I'll just do it. [05:01]
mircea_popescu cool. address ? [05:01]
MolokoDesk you want to discuss what happens when it's done that's fine. I'm already good to start on this based on previous email relayed. [05:02]
mircea_popescu well once it's done it'll be on github and hosted somewhere. [05:02]
MolokoDesk right. [05:02]
mircea_popescu what you writing this in ? [05:02]
MolokoDesk php [05:02]
mircea_popescu then you'd best include notes on how to get a stock php server into a stater where it can run your code. [05:03]
MolokoDesk there's an option to translate it to python later, but it'll be done sooner in php. [05:03]
RagnarDanneskjol for starters - then pyth pref [05:03]
mircea_popescu i dun care. [05:03]
MolokoDesk php is decent for rapid prototyping. [05:03]
ben_vulpes oh jesus you guys [05:03]
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ben_vulpes look at this reddit angst [05:03]
ben_vulpes [05:03]
assbot tozee comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs [05:03]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes for the most part, we're here to escape the teenage angst of the interwebs. [05:04]
ben_vulpes oh [05:04]
ben_vulpes my [05:04]
ben_vulpes shits [05:04]
MolokoDesk I'm hosting a bot in ragnar's channel already. [05:04]
ben_vulpes anyways, midnightmagic there is no playing nice with "core" dev "team". [05:05]
MolokoDesk install notes with the php code. [05:05]
RagnarDanneskjol well its not MY channel, i just do all the talkin [05:05]
mircea_popescu RagnarDanneskjol i got #trilema like that, it consists of me and some other cool kids logging into gribble. [05:05]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: Do you mind if we go PM? I don't want to disturb channel. [05:06]
RagnarDanneskjol ooh I'm there [05:06]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk i dunno how you get gpg for php for instance. [05:06]
mircea_popescu but it sounds like just the sort of thing to become a nightmare. [05:06]
MolokoDesk i open a pipe for stdio, stdin and stderr. [05:07]
MolokoDesk a pipe to gpg works well, gpg outputs it's valdiation spew to stderr so most people have trouble using it from inside php. [05:07]
mircea_popescu php does pipes ? [05:08]
MolokoDesk yes. [05:08]
mircea_popescu o wow. what a band name. [05:08]
mircea_popescu ;;google php does pipes ? the band [05:08]
gribble Pipe Band: Music: Alma College: ; Calendar - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: ; Pipe Band Magazine - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: [05:08]
RagnarDanneskjol haha [05:08]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk and you actually have php irc bots somewhere ?! [05:09]
mircea_popescu i thought it was mostly py [05:09]
MolokoDesk invite Tao_Jones into this channel if you want to see the bot. [05:10]
MolokoDesk it'll need voice. [05:10]
RagnarDanneskjol he has a very cool bot that I talk to all the time [05:10]
MolokoDesk or you can drop into one of the channels it's already in. [05:10]
mircea_popescu um how did this shit go [05:10]
chanserv op [05:10]
chanserv op mircea_popescu [05:10]
RagnarDanneskjol can we kick the bot after - it can get a bit floody at times [05:10]
chanserv op #bitcoin-assets [05:10]
* ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu [05:10]
MolokoDesk I'm using a lot of scraping to get data in some cases so some modules require periodic maintenance. [05:10]
* You've invited Tao_Jones to #bitcoin-assets ( [05:10]
* Tao_Jones (~Tao_Jones@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:11]
mircea_popescu !up Tao_Jones [05:11]
-assbot- You voiced Tao_Jones for 30 minutes. [05:11]
* assbot gives voice to Tao_Jones [05:11]
* mircea_popescu removes channel operator status from mircea_popescu [05:11]
RagnarDanneskjol .chart4h [05:11]
Tao_Jones ---+------------------------------------+-----------------------513 [05:11]
Tao_Jones | ++ + |BTC-e BTCUSD [05:11]
Tao_Jones | + +++++ ++++ ++ |ask 503 [05:11]
Tao_Jones | ++ + + ++ + |bid 503.056 [05:11]
Tao_Jones | ++ + + + + ++++ + +++| [05:11]
kakobrekla such noobs. [05:11]
Tao_Jones |+ + + ++ ++++ ++ ++ |499.0100 [05:11]
Tao_Jones | ++++ + + + | [05:11]
Tao_Jones | + |22-Aug 11:12:09 [05:11]
Tao_Jones | + + |30-Aug 02:10:23 [05:11]
Tao_Jones | |33 seconds ago [05:11]
Tao_Jones ------------+---------------------------------------------------485.02 [05:11]
mircea_popescu souch [05:11]
MolokoDesk .wot ragnarrdanneskjol [05:11]
Tao_Jones no wot entry for: ragnarrdanneskjol [05:11]
MolokoDesk .wot ragnardanneskjol [05:11]
Tao_Jones id=11613 keyid=35D2E1A0457E6498 fingerprint=B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498 bitcoinaddress=14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6 registered_at=2014-Jun-05 08:07:21 UTC nick=RagnarDanneskjol last_authed_at=2014-Aug-30 01:22:04 UTC is_authed=1 [05:11]
Tao_Jones Public Key for RagnarDanneskjol at [05:11]
assbot Public Key Server -- Get "0x35d2e1a0457e6498 " [05:11]
MolokoDesk duelling bots. [05:11]
-kakobrekla- you dont need to op yourself to !up doh [05:11]
* #bitcoin-assets :You're not a channel operator [05:12]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla yeah but it had to be invited [05:12]
mircea_popescu that chart thing is fucking evil. [05:12]
* assbot gives voice to DoctorBTC [05:12]
RagnarDanneskjol i love it [05:12]
* mircea_popescu waves at DoctorBTC [05:12]
DoctorBTC does it do ascii video playback [05:12]
decimation is that supposed to be one of those 'ascii art' key hash things? [05:12]
kakobrekla anyone can invite since its not +i ? [05:12]
DoctorBTC hey mircea_popescu [05:12]
mircea_popescu RagnarDanneskjol i don't think tao can stay unless it starts answering ,chart in pm only [05:12]
ben_vulpes wow that's quite the paste [05:13]
MolokoDesk I notice that cryptsy has so many altcoins now that trying to load the entire json spew for them all crashes the quote-reading module. [05:13]
mircea_popescu DoctorBTC i don't recall what i wanted to commend you about, but it was something. [05:13]
DoctorBTC saw your shoutout the other night [05:13]
RagnarDanneskjol right agreed [05:13]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: if you don't understand why this conversation belongs in #bitcoin-assets... [05:13]
decimation oh I see it's btc/dollar [05:13]
MolokoDesk .wolfram derivative 5*x^2-15x+12 [05:13]
Tao_Jones d/dx(5 x^2-15 x+12) = 5 (2 x-3) = line = integral 5 (-3+2 x) dx = 5 (x^2-3 x)+constant [05:13]
mircea_popescu ahahha geekbot. [05:13]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: << what the hell does that even mean [05:13]
assbot midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs [05:13]
decimation does that query wolfram alpha? [05:13]
MolokoDesk ?BTC [05:14]
Tao_Jones bitstamp: BTCUSD last=507.94 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7354 Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31 UTC [05:14]
Tao_Jones BTC-e: BTCUSD last= buy= sell= high=hi low= vol= Thu Jan-01 00:00:00 [05:14]
Tao_Jones bitstamp: BTCUSD bid=506.43 ask=507.95 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7353.59436112 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31 [05:14]
Tao_Jones vircurex: BTCUSD last=551.0 bid=551.0 ask=570.0 vol=0.22212299 time=Thu 01-Jan 00:00:00 [05:14]
Tao_Jones Invalid argument supplied for foreach() coinbase.php LINE 96 [05:14]
Tao_Jones No coinbase data for currency symbol: usd [05:14]
Tao_Jones bitfinex: BTCUSD last=503.96 bid=503.97 ask=504.72 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:43 [05:14]
mircea_popescu yeah this is a pm bot srsly. [05:14]
kakobrekla if this shit continues imma +m [05:14]
mircea_popescu ^ [05:14]
MolokoDesk yeah, i'm scraping wolfram alpha, but if you pay them there's an API that is somewhat more flexible. [05:14]
ben_vulpes !down Tao_Jones [05:14]
* assbot removes voice from Tao_Jones [05:14]
ben_vulpes sry [05:14]
RagnarDanneskjol molo - lets hold on Tao floods [05:14]
ben_vulpes cannot deal [05:14]
MolokoDesk ok. no more bot demo. [05:14]
RagnarDanneskjol sorry, like I said [05:14]
decimation lol scraping 'human' interface [05:14]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: ratings are not for "politeness" [05:14]
MolokoDesk it's morbidly verbose. [05:14]
* CHRIX is now known as KRS1 [05:14]
ben_vulpes or "civility" [05:15]
mircea_popescu it's cool and all, but it has to pm to the commanding nick [05:15]
MolokoDesk kick the bot is my suggestion. [05:15]
ben_vulpes they are for trustworthiness and trustworthiness only. [05:15]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you really can't say what process a third party uses to discern trustworthyness [05:15]
mircea_popescu it [05:15]
mircea_popescu s like water. [05:15]
MolokoDesk the bot also maintains a link log page, searchable. [05:16]
* ben_vulpes drums fingers angrily [05:16]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes think of it the only right way to thinl of it : any restriction on the process for others is tantamount to a restriction on the domain of the trng. [05:16]
mircea_popescu only nsa wants that., [05:16]
ben_vulpes well i've got my WoT over here, mkay? [05:17]
ben_vulpes it's got these pluses [05:17]
ben_vulpes and these other minuses [05:17]
ben_vulpes this minus is for this set of things. [05:17]
mircea_popescu and your skull over there too, with this brain matter in a wet soup, also got its pluses and minuses. [05:17]
mircea_popescu which are the better ? [05:17]
mircea_popescu teh pluses or teh minuses ? sodium or -oxigen ? [05:18]
ben_vulpes all right all right! [05:18]
MolokoDesk I was considering that the other night, having a web of trust data structure as a graph, then different algorithms to assess inheritance or diffusion of trust, various wieghtings of different endorsements, graph topology analysis to detect mutual endorsement cartels, that sort of thing [05:18]
ben_vulpes shit's just mad suspicious. [05:18]
ben_vulpes throwing fud at Conformal for "politeness" [05:18]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk welcome to irl. [05:19]
ben_vulpes rating ninjashogun positively for "politeness" [05:19]
mircea_popescu so you don't trust the guy. [05:19]
ben_vulpes yeah well [05:19]
ben_vulpes like i said [05:19]
ben_vulpes this negrating is for this set of things. [05:19]
mircea_popescu a a yeah. missed that part. [05:19]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: It means the constant claim of credit for work bitcoin core does, the regular snipes and badmouthing of dev activity, the adoption, nearly wholesale, of bitcoin features and ideas without any attribution, and the denial that either someone with access to the conformal code created a fork after rejecting a conformal-mined block, or someone who has a custom bitcoind that doesn't crash on a huge long testnet fork even [05:19]
midnightmagic when everyone else's bitcoind did, is evidence that conformal is misbehaving or at least wilfully misinforming people. [05:19]
ben_vulpes access to the conformal code [05:20]
midnightmagic The rating had nothing to do with "civility." [05:20]
ben_vulpes lol what the ever locing fuck [05:20]
ben_vulpes do you mean this shit on github? [05:20]
midnightmagic Correct. The mining code, which was unavailable at the time the fork occurred. [05:20]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic plenty of people have custom clients that don't get crushed by the hearn introduced nsa bug. [05:20]
ben_vulpes [05:20]
assbot conformal/btcd GitHub [05:20]
midnightmagic mircea_popescu: That's another issue. [05:20]
mircea_popescu what, you really thought we seriously let you people do the coding ? [05:20]
midnightmagic I'm not a dev. s/You/those/ [05:21]
mircea_popescu s/you/those/ [05:21]
ben_vulpes and yet with the vim [05:21]
* nubbins` ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:21]
mircea_popescu i mean even fucking karpeles had his own (bad) sauce ffs. [05:21]
ben_vulpes phpsauce [05:21]
midnightmagic Yeah that was b-s. He was a menace. Nobody who relies on me lost any money at MtGox. [05:21]
mircea_popescu this is true, you're one of the very few people who were around during pirate even, didn't go all nuts about it. [05:22]
midnightmagic Not a dime. I did get ruled by BFL though. [05:22]
justusranvier I just spent the last three days supporting a code sprint with four Monetas coders and Dave Collins while they work on btcwallet. Midnightmagic's story about btcd forking testnet is complete BS [05:22]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: still waiting on an explanation of [05:22]
mircea_popescu which is why i'm not negrating you, myself. but hey, everyone his own wot sauce. [05:22]
assbot midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs [05:22]
mircea_popescu justusranvier hey there reddit boy :D [05:23]
mircea_popescu we were having lulz reading that entire thing [05:23]
ben_vulpes hey justusranvier i see you collecting btctips off my work [05:23]
justusranvier ? [05:23]
mircea_popescu lmao asshat [05:23]
ben_vulpes [05:23]
assbot changetip comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs [05:23]
ben_vulpes nah mostly joshin ;) [05:23]
midnightmagic justusranvier: It was one or the other. They deny it was them. From the perspective of an outsider, what's the truth? Who knows? But the fork started at a block CONFORMAL built, and went for hundreds of testnet blocks. It's not b-s. Conformal's logic is false about the origin. [05:23]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you got the worthless traffic, can't he have the worthless tips ? [05:24]
* gernika ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:24]
ben_vulpes traffic is worthless. tips? [05:24]
mircea_popescu what did he even get, 20 doge ? [05:24]
justusranvier ben_vulpes: that was your article? [05:24]
ben_vulpes what's a thousandth of a coin worth in three decades? [05:24]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [05:24]
mircea_popescu "php does pipes ?" nubbins` ! [05:24]
ben_vulpes ;;calc 0.001/21000000 [05:25]
gribble 0 [05:25]
mircea_popescu make it happen! sign them! nude chicks with tubes on their head singing the ocarina! [05:25]
* kermit (unknown@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:25]
* nubbins` snorts, awakens [05:25]
nubbins` buh?! [05:25]
ben_vulpes justusranvier: yeah, i run ch [05:25]
ben_vulpes and [05:25]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: A user put a forced garbage collection at the wrong spot in Conformal's btcd, and Go segfaulted for no good reason. The code is not as high-quality as everyone thinks it is. [05:25]
justusranvier I've actually got to run for about 30-45 minutes, but when I get back I can explain what actually happened on testnet. [05:25]
* assbot removes voice from MolokoDesk [05:25]
* devthedev (~devthedev@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:25]
* devthedev has quit (Changing host) [05:25]
* devthedev (~devthedev@unaffiliated/devthedev) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:25]
RagnarDanneskjol !up MolokoDesk [05:26]
* assbot gives voice to MolokoDesk [05:26]
mircea_popescu midnightmagic people like the fact that it's not in shitlanguage and it's better written than the bitcoind. this is not a comment on the actual code quality. [05:26]
RagnarDanneskjol mircea_popescu - are you confident molo is clear on the reqs? MolokoDesk - are you clear on the reqs? [05:26]
mircea_popescu i would think so. [05:26]
nubbins` process pictures, for those of you waiting on posters: [05:26]
assbot [PRE-ORDER] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [15/50 left] [05:26]
ben_vulpes midnightmagic: user did idiot shit with code, code broke. surprise! [05:26]
justusranvier In any case, check the timestamps on the testnet blocks on the day when btcd announced they'd entered beta [05:27]
mircea_popescu RagnarDanneskjol hence [05:27]
assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 02:01:35; mircea_popescu: cool. address ? [05:27]
justusranvier You'll see something interesting [05:27]
ben_vulpes this is precisely the fud. [05:27]
RagnarDanneskjol i kno [05:27]
* Ssateneth has quit (Quit: —I-n-v-i-s-i-o-n— 3.3 (November '11)) [05:27]
ben_vulpes ;;gettrust justusranvier [05:27]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask justusranvier!~justus@unaffiliated/justusranvier. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user justusranvier: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Mon Feb 11 19:56:55 2013 [05:27]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: That's total nonsense. It means the codebase is fragile, or the language itself is fragile. [05:27]
mircea_popescu golang isn't all that fragile, gwon. [05:28]
ben_vulpes i'll posit you the other scenario: bisect the codebase inserting GC calls until we find one innocuously positioned that can discredit the btcd team [05:29]
mircea_popescu nubbins` haha shiot sherlock, that satuff should bne on your blog. [05:29]
midnightmagic ben_vulpes: leprechauns? Seriously? [05:29]
mircea_popescu seems eulora is actually getting some models made woot. [05:29]
ben_vulpes un savory garnishes [05:29]
nubbins` mircea_popescu pretty proud of it so far [05:29]
ben_vulpes why a gc call? why there? what the ever loving fuck is the story? [05:29]
nubbins` the split fountain on the sky is particularly nice [05:30]
MolokoDesk ok. if we're in agreement about what to do and when to do it I can send you a bitcoin address and get to work. [05:30]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk just paste it here. [05:30]
mircea_popescu what the hell has life in the police state done to you ppls! [05:30]
MolokoDesk I may want to talk about the deliveries and such in /msg [05:30]
MolokoDesk but it's not an issue to get started for me. [05:30]
MolokoDesk ok. finding the address. [05:31]
ben_vulpes nubbins`: looking good frere! [05:31]
nubbins` tyvm! [05:31]
* devthedev (~devthedev@unaffiliated/devthedev) has left #bitcoin-assets [05:31]
nubbins` you're going to lel when you see the next layer [05:31]
mircea_popescu dongs ? [05:31]
nubbins` nonono [05:31]
ben_vulpes errywhere [05:31]
* assbot removes voice from guest8374 [05:31]
ben_vulpes plz or cunts [05:31]
mircea_popescu COME PLAY WTH USS [05:31]
kakobrekla just hairy balls this time. [05:31]
nubbins` reminds me of a thread on, the place i learned my craft -- question was "what's your fave show poster" [05:32]
nubbins` all these world-class poster artists saying "space dicks" "yep, space dicks" [05:32]
kakobrekla you know what I DONT LIKE IT ALREADY! [05:32]
nubbins` i'm thinking wtf? search the archives [05:32]
kakobrekla sorry, LOVE. [05:32]
ben_vulpes aight mes ami [05:32]
nubbins` finally come across this Melvins poster w/ mcdonald's characters on the moon with huge 10' tall cocks growing out of the surface [05:33]
ben_vulpes babe calls dinner is ready [05:33]
mircea_popescu as per : Plutesc purtat de tate-naripate cu aripi din vata de zahar pe spate ma poatra-n ceruri roz cu nori pufosi pe care fac bule dinozauri somnorosi. In zbor trec buci cu lungi siraguri de margele si-un cartof rustic rastignit pe acadele. Mai trece si un peste de otel si-un urs din muci cu degetel dar iata, hiii, acolo-n zare marea vulva cum rasare. [05:33]
assbot RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube [05:33]
ben_vulpes can't be arsed. here's to the sybils! [05:33]
MolokoDesk address for project related to contract bot: 1TaoJrnsQzfyBto2PmwPAssce9DGzsHg3 [05:34]
mircea_popescu "i float carried on tits with wings of cotton candy on their backs, they carry me through pink skies and fluffy clouds upon which bubble sleepy dinosaurs. flying by go butts with lengthy bead strings, and a rustic potato crucified on lolips " etc [05:34]
kakobrekla and dont do stdin/out when you have a gpg wrapper [05:34]
MolokoDesk noted. [05:35]
mircea_popescu what is it ? [05:35]
kakobrekla what is it what [05:35]
mircea_popescu the wrapper [05:36]
kakobrekla [05:36]
assbot PHP: GnuPG - Manual [05:36]
MolokoDesk heh. Was going to have to look into that. [05:36]
MolokoDesk there's probably an includable object in php that does PGP operations that doesn't use the command line. some PGP or GPG library wrapper. [05:37]
kakobrekla didnt i just link to it? [05:37]
MolokoDesk generally anything shell() or exec() -like is a bad practice. [05:37]
* teward has quit (Quit: ERROR: Segmentation Fault in ZNC: 56) [05:37]
MolokoDesk yeah, I guess you did. [05:37]
mircea_popescu ;;ticker [05:38]
kakobrekla didnt i just link to it? < twice, first time was a /notice [05:38]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 506.2, Best ask: 507.83, Bid-ask spread: 1.63000, Last trade: 506.58, 24 hour volume: 7309.58172579, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 508.106868918 [05:38]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 488 @ 0.00115757 = 0.5649 BTC [-] {6} [05:39]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk done. [05:40]
* teward (LordOfTime@ubuntu/member/teward) has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:40]
MolokoDesk do you want progress reports or just let you know when it's demonstratable first cut for comments feedback and midcourse corrections if any? [05:40]
mircea_popescu ;;gettrust assbot MolokoDesk [05:41]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user MolokoDesk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: never [05:41]
MolokoDesk yeah yeah, I'm not in wot. [05:41]
mircea_popescu ;;rate MolokoDesk 1 dev. [05:41]
gribble Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings. [05:41]
mircea_popescu get in the wot, you can get rated, then you can just voice yourself and add whatever relevant whenever relevant. [05:41]
mircea_popescu why aren';t you in the wot anyway. [05:41]
MolokoDesk it's just another thing to maintain. [05:41]
MolokoDesk but I see why it's the thing to do now, since I'm going to be in here a bit. [05:42]
mircea_popescu no it's not. your future ability to obtain work here, as well as your ability to benefit from the positive exposure you worked for today strictly hinges on you having a wot acct. [05:42]
MolokoDesk I do understand the utility of it, obviously. [05:42]
RagnarDanneskjol i been tellin him this forever [05:42]
MolokoDesk I'm in. I'll get that set up in a while. [05:42]
* Duffer_ has quit (Quit: Duffer_) [05:43]
MolokoDesk it's a bit of work to "not lose a private key". I jest somewhat. [05:43]
MolokoDesk eternal vigiliance is the price etc etc... [05:43]
mircea_popescu it's also a bit of work not to lose your penis. [05:43]
* assbot gives voice to diametric [05:44]
diametric there really isn't anything to maintain.. [05:44]
MolokoDesk so far I'm not worried about that. [05:44]
mircea_popescu the former is a better use of your time. [05:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: penis << dulap! [05:44]
MolokoDesk agreed. we'll see how it scales in the future. [05:44]
mircea_popescu so far I'm not worried about that. << freud would beg to differ. [05:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform lol you liked that didja. [05:44]
asciilifeform mega-educational. [05:45]
mircea_popescu MolokoDesk your penis ? sorry to be the harbringer of sad news, but... it doesn't scale in the future, it shrinks in the future. [05:45]
MolokoDesk freudian entropy. [05:45]
RagnarDanneskjol AHAHa [05:45]
mircea_popescu cunts enlarge with use. cocks just sorta diminish [05:45]
MolokoDesk these asymmetries. [05:45]
DoctorBTC the future is like the cold pacific ocean... [05:45]
MolokoDesk I gotta get back to the pacific. Surf's up. [05:46]
mircea_popescu i wonder what the divorce rate would look like if it worked the other way areound. doing it five times a week = +1 inch a year. [05:47]
asciilifeform plus wear-hardening. [05:47]
mircea_popescu "i've been married for 28 years your honor! ENOUGH!" [05:47]
MolokoDesk sometimes there's something to be said for equlibrium. [05:47]
MolokoDesk pacific... seasteads.. molecular biology research enclaves... [05:48]
asciilifeform !s king neptune [05:49]
assbot 1 results for 'king neptune' : [05:49]
decimation asciilifeform: what is your favored djvu reading device? kindle dx? [05:51]
mircea_popescu so i see coinroll add on bitbet, click, decide to try it out. [05:51]
mircea_popescu [05:51]
asciilifeform decimation: 'nexus-10' [05:51]
assbot View image: coinroll [05:51]
mircea_popescu SCAM! [05:51]
asciilifeform decimation: 'kindle dx' with russian os patch will read djvu, but only really makes sense for very good, high-contrast b&w scans. [05:52]
mircea_popescu ;;calc .5 ** 4 [05:52]
gribble 0.0625 [05:52]
mircea_popescu CLEARLY!!1 [05:52]
asciilifeform decimation: 'librerator' [05:52]
decimation for mac desktop I've found that "Devonthink" works well to search/index pdfs [05:52]
decimation that's the name of the warez? [05:52]
* asciilifeform doesn't read scans on normal computer [05:52]
asciilifeform decimation: of the patch [05:52]
decimation reading scans on the computer sucks, but it's useful for searching references [05:53]
mircea_popescu but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. [05:53]
mircea_popescu nice design job. [05:53]
asciilifeform decimation: most of these aren't meaningfully searchable anyway [05:53]
decimation yeah, more for textbooks, not prose [05:53]
decimation herr walker has a review on a bio of Maxwell: [05:54]
assbot Reading List: The Man Who Changed Everything (Fourmilog: None Dare Call It Reason) [05:54]
asciilifeform read it. [05:54]
asciilifeform also recommend: 'the maxwellians' (b. j. hunt) [05:55]
* assbot removes voice from MolokoDesk [05:56]
decimation one wonders with the ease of finding scans/native text of a great many published textbooks - how long until the college bookstore becomes a thing of the past? [05:56]
asciilifeform decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared [05:57]
asciilifeform decimation: the textbook racket responded by changing books (mainly exercises) around as often as they could [05:57]
midnightmagic It's already a good chunk of the way there. Many courses at local universities have entirely virtual course materials and reading lists. [05:57]
* jordandotdev (uid7502@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [05:57]
decimation for undergrad subjects at any rate, you would be a pretty poor professor if you couldn't write your own text [05:58]
mircea_popescu and they are very poor professors. [05:58]
* assbot gives voice to kanzure [05:58]
kanzure unfortunately it is not yet profitable to buy textbooks and resell directly to pulp recyclers :( [05:58]
mircea_popescu the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof. [05:58]
mircea_popescu and arguably, for much more socialy useful work, too. [05:59]
decimation considering scholars 500 years ago would transcribe the professor as he lectured, and then take turns reading the only copy of the course text, kids today have it great [05:59]
kakobrekla decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared < when i was in high school you could legally copy 70% of the book .... at once. [05:59]
asciilifeform many american 'public' unis publish complete lists of who's paid what - where i live, this is required by law [05:59]
asciilifeform and yes - it's true [05:59]
chetty the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.// but much shorter career [05:59]
kanzure the textbook industry spends about $3B/year on marketing- but have you ever seen an ad for a textbook? [06:00]
mircea_popescu chetty not so, not really. [06:00]
kanzure it's all spent on elaborate vacations for professors [06:00]
asciilifeform most (scientific) profs also moonlight as industrial consultants though [06:00]
mircea_popescu most uni profs fail to get their tenure in their late 30s [06:00]
decimation asciilifeform: most 'public' schools in the us require the same, always a source of amusement for the young ones [06:00]
mircea_popescu most call girls can push it past 40ish if they want to [06:00]
mircea_popescu the call girl however can start at 12. [06:00]
penguirker New blog post: [06:00]
penguirker New blog post: [06:00]
asciilifeform obligatory: [06:00]
asciilifeform !s greenspun [06:00]
mircea_popescu the uni prof can't start at 22. [06:00]
assbot 16 results for 'greenspun' : [06:00]
kakobrekla the problem with this search is - now there will be 18 results [06:01]
asciilifeform lol [06:02]
mircea_popescu not necessarily a problem [06:02]
decimation that's like grepping ps to find... your grep of ps [06:02]
mircea_popescu it does convey the information that the thing was searched later, and you can exclude bots if you wish. [06:02]
kakobrekla you can? [06:03]
mircea_popescu but for the average noob, history | grep history yields a lot of... "history | grep history" [06:03]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla im pretty sure it had a command [06:03]
kakobrekla do tell [06:03]
mircea_popescu mthreat how did the exclusion clauses work in search agai ? [06:04]
decimation "Then the whole RoseArt versus Crayola battle. The kids at the Salvation Army fair got RoseArt, almost half the cost of Crayola, and that's what the vouchers covered. But the RoseArt supplies were hardly touched and the Crayola was wiped out. At the registers, the fights started over, "My kids don't want none of that RoseArt shit, are you saying they ain't good enough for the good stuff? Only white kids get the good stuff?"" [06:05]
mircea_popescu "yes. shut up and cook me some beans" [06:06]
asciilifeform << she went to lolmart [06:08]
assbot The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude [06:08]
mircea_popescu libertarian is lonely through his own fault. shoulda made a wot. [06:08]
asciilifeform her. [06:09]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu and its not the bots one wants to filter - its lines starting with '!s' and assbots replies 'x results for ..' [06:10]
justusranvier [06:10]
kakobrekla anyway i go. [06:10]
assbot midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement [06:10]
decimation hehe yeah the other link at the bottom is good too: "We have millions of these privileged entitlement folks. They are the ones populating the Ivy League schools preparing for their rise to power over the nation. They have never worked a real job, never produced anything, never been allowed to fall on their faces, never been allowed to fail and deal with the [06:10]
assbot The Lonely Libertarian: The other entitlement class [06:10]
decimation fallout. They have no concept of reality, and sadly, most of us know them personally. " [06:10]
mircea_popescu She wasn't talking to me, but I could hear her saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this, they're so ugly, it's just so wrong." << woman met the orcs, hasn't even been raped yet. [06:10]
mircea_popescu decimation i actually don't know any personally. [06:11]
asciilifeform like tolkien's orcs, these were built artificially and with great care. [06:11]
justusranvier [06:12]
assbot Block 222996 - TEST Bitcoin Block Explorer [06:12]
decimation " The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval. " [06:12]
mircea_popescu "Not these chirrin, my older chirrin! They needs these for they lunches!" [06:12]
mircea_popescu lol [06:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform an orc's an orc. [06:12]
decimation you gotta admit the pure chutzpah of trying to buy beer with 'school supply' donations [06:12]
justusranvier A few hours after dhill tweeted btcd's first ever mined testnet block, somebody showed up with enough hashing power to find 100 blocks/hour and started conducting history rewriting attacks [06:13]
mircea_popescu (only artificial orcs exist. mp knows, for mp has lived all over the world. actual poor people are more pleasant than actual civilised people) [06:13]
kanzure why would someone bother doing that on testnet? [06:13]
kanzure seems like they would have an easier time using regtest [06:13]
justusranvier kanzure: Well, do don't know for sure. [06:13]
mircea_popescu kanzure why not ? trolling is trolling. [06:14]
justusranvier All we know is they had the capability to do so, and they just so happened to reorg out of existance btcd's first ever mined block, and just so happened to start doing it after they publicly announced having done so. [06:14]
kanzure was it only btcd's block? [06:14]
justusranvier The history rewriting attacks were 100+ blocks long [06:15]
justusranvier More than one of them [06:15]
kanzure that doesn't answer my question, actually [06:15]
justusranvier We don't know exactly at what height their block was originally mined [06:15]
kanzure i see [06:15]
justusranvier Because they didn't save it, and the blockexplorer site doesn't save orphan chains [06:15]
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kanzure too bad [06:16]
mircea_popescu the entire thing is really a meaningless exercise. who the fuck cares what happens on testnet. [06:16]
mircea_popescu it's not a blockchain of record. [06:16]
mircea_popescu it's much like natural experimentation : if unreproducible, [06:16]
justusranvier But they know their block wasn't bad because they submitted it to a local, isolated bitcoind before they broadcast it to the network [06:16]
mircea_popescu discarded. [06:16]
justusranvier It's just pathetic to watch the Bitcoin Core team and/or their fanboys compete on FUD when they can't compete on code quality [06:17]
asciilifeform re: orcs: [06:18]
assbot 10 Orks (subtitle eng) - YouTube [06:18]
mircea_popescu justusranvier lol they can't compete on fud, this is a long established point. [06:18]
justusranvier They are trying, though [06:18]
mircea_popescu i dun see it. [06:19]
mircea_popescu gotta let people have fun, what. [06:19]
justusranvier So some companies, including mining pools, are interested in running btcd. For some reason, said companies sometimes ask the Bitcoin Core team for advice before doing so. FUD ensues. [06:20]
mircea_popescu you're really making too much of this. [06:21]
justusranvier I'm not sure what you mean. [06:21]
mircea_popescu can you see why reorging some new guy's block out of this world is funny ? [06:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00085394 = 10.6743 BTC [+] {2} [06:22]
justusranvier Oh that? Of course I can see how it's funny. The pathetic part is how people lie about what happened. [06:22]
mircea_popescu so people have issues with humor, what. i dun care, you dun care, foggedaboutit [06:23]
decimation asciilifeform: lol [06:23]
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mircea_popescu !up altoz [06:23]
-assbot- You voiced altoz for 30 minutes. [06:23]
* assbot gives voice to altoz [06:23]
altoz hey mircea [06:24]
mircea_popescu hey unknown person from the interwebs [06:24]
asciilifeform 'conformal' smells suspiciously like a 'good-cop' half of a 'good-cop / bad-cop' act. [06:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform whay, just because old dod contractor ? [06:24]
asciilifeform nope. [06:24]
mircea_popescu using a sexy language and being generally sane ? [06:25]
asciilifeform yes. [06:25]
decimation asciilifeform: why not focus on producing a readable RFC first is the question.. [06:25]
mircea_popescu you are ALSO making too much of it :D [06:25]
asciilifeform plus continuing with 'the code is the spec' derpatron. [06:25]
mircea_popescu that's a forced mistake. [06:25]
mircea_popescu what are they going to do, write out a spec then have the bitcoind horde pretend "it fails" ? [06:26]
mircea_popescu forcing specification through mutually disjunct implementations is the best we get. [06:26]
asciilifeform i must confess that the conformal/power-ranger war does not concern me personally, because 'happy is the man who has one leg, one sock doesn't tear, one boot isn't needed' - and i intend to solve the pertinent problem with own hands before it begins to concern me personally. [06:27]
mircea_popescu which is why i took exception to the "why cant we all get along" derpage from midnightmagic yest. [06:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform a sound approach. [06:28]
mircea_popescu as i was saying earlier : so has erryone. [06:28]
justusranvier Speaking of specs, davec found parts of bitcoind script validation that involved behavior undefined by the C++ spec, meaning it's theoritically possible to compile it with a non-gcc compiler and get two bitcoinds that will fork on a carefully-crafted transactions. [06:28]
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mircea_popescu justusranvier "code is the spec" means "the compiler we use is the spec" too. [06:28]
decimation because the code wasn't machine code or MIX... [06:29]
mircea_popescu mix dun werk. [06:29]
asciilifeform not only google, but apple, and microshit before them, turned away from traditional 'gcc' suite and proclaimed elaborate crud in its place. i could only ever assume - for ease of 'thompsoning' people. [06:29]
mircea_popescu for that matter, fucking machine code dun werk. [06:29]
decimation indeed, one must then blindly trust the logic designer and chip maker [06:30]
asciilifeform the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind. [06:31]
decimation asciilifeform: I thought apple was trying to get on board with LLVM [06:31]
mircea_popescu this can be a decent graduate exercise. "write the longest asm program that does the same thing on all platforms. you may pick what it does yourself." [06:31]
asciilifeform '' [06:31]
* asciilifeform wins [06:31]
mircea_popescu exactly. a succession of "sleep" [06:31]
asciilifeform nah, a string of zero length. [06:32]
mircea_popescu (the point being not to win, but like in any koan, to contemplate what the win means) [06:32]
mircea_popescu ~longest~ [06:32]
asciilifeform longest. [06:32]
* asciilifeform assumed 'platforms' include all known cpu archs [06:32]
mircea_popescu lol [06:32]
mircea_popescu i was (in retrospect, mistakenly) taking an "observable" approach to "same thing" [06:33]
decimation supposedly gcc was made intentionally obscure so that stallman can use it as a crowbar [06:34]
asciilifeform for your puzzle, famous example - << grep for 'polyglot' [06:34]
assbot corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting [06:34]
asciilifeform decimation: crowbar ? [06:34]
decimation people just copy & paste the whole thing with GPL to all platforms [06:35]
asciilifeform versus what ? [06:35]
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decimation [06:37]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2014 22:15:54; nubbins`: [06:37]
decimation "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'" [06:37]
asciilifeform it was a terrible setback, though not for the reasons herr stallman gives [06:37]
asciilifeform because [06:38]
assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 03:30:44; asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind. [06:38]
decimation asciilifeform: because better compiler = more people thinking they don't have to understand what the machine is doing? [06:38]
asciilifeform decimation: when 'better compiler' sits on 'same old cpu' - yes [06:39]
decimation Sounds legit. kinda like the existence of google translate is given as a reason not to learn another language [06:39]
mircea_popescu uh no it's not [06:39]
mircea_popescu it's a good entrypoint [06:40]
asciilifeform it's such a bad entry point that it probably encourages folks to study languages. [06:40]
* assbot gives voice to altoz [06:40]
decimation yeah, I agree. for me, it's motivating when I see how shitty its output looks, and it makes me want to translate more [06:40]
asciilifeform showcases how little the 'dictionary approach' gives. [06:40]
decimation now with idioms! [06:41]
asciilifeform back to subject - imho btc client is 'safety critical code' - but none of the existing implementations rise to even the most basic standard for such. [06:42]
decimation asciilifeform: do you mean to separate "btc client" from "btc node"? [06:43]
asciilifeform that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. [06:43]
asciilifeform node. [06:43]
* asciilifeform is in the process of meeting this standard for a different application, and it is very labour-intensive. but necessary. [06:43]
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asciilifeform just as with the discovery of ionizing radiation, people suffer needlessly because they 'intuitively' believe that invisible thing can't kill them [06:45]
asciilifeform somehow everyone understands that parachute, airplane, etc. have to be designed in certain ways - but mention programs? and 'you're a nut' [06:45]
decimation or inversely they believe that it's everywhere and out to get them. [06:46]
asciilifeform entropy, at least, -is- always out to get you. [06:46]
asciilifeform pick an arbitrary bit in memory image of 'bitcoind.' [06:46]
asciilifeform flip. [06:46]
asciilifeform contest / student exercise - find the most interesting one. [06:47]
asciilifeform your choice of cpu. [06:47]
decimation next step: find out how to flip that bit in said machine running with crap-o-soft os [06:47]
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asciilifeform not even speaking of enemy action here [06:48]
asciilifeform just the now-ubiquitous non-error-correcting memory. [06:48]
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decimation probably the majority of btc nodes run non-ecc ram [06:48]
asciilifeform example: [06:48]
asciilifeform !s bitsquatting [06:48]
assbot 0 results for 'bitsquatting' : [06:48]
asciilifeform ;;google bitsquatting [06:49]
gribble Bitsquatting: DNS Hijacking without exploitation - ; Bitsquatting - [] - Audio and Video from Black Hat: ; Examining the Bitsquatting Attack Surface - Cisco Blog: [06:49]
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decimation the fun version of this would be to squat on a domain predicted to be used by a popular bot [06:50]
* asciilifeform might have confessed before - is running 7+ yr. old hardware, because non-intel ECC hardware has become virtually unobtainable [06:51]
* decimation has an HP amd-based 'microserver' with ecc ram [06:52]
asciilifeform decimation: popular bot << no need for 'bitsquat' here. most of the clever sort of botnet use domains generated weekly, based on time of day. but, clever folks also use rsa signatures for payload auth. [06:52]
decimation asciilifeform: wouldn't there be an "id trail" from the registrar to the bot herder? [06:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00085345 = 7.3823 BTC [-] {2} [06:53]
asciilifeform decimation: at least a few registrars take btc and don't ask too many questions [06:53]
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decimation even with payload crypto it would be interesting to watch the incoming packets [06:54]
asciilifeform decimation: you can watch all you like - run a 'tor' exit. [06:54]
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* decimation does not want to become a zek [06:56]
asciilifeform decimation: if you have a strict isp, do it in one of those 'nature preserves' where it is officially encouraged (e.g. 'amazon ec2') [06:58]
asciilifeform but must understand, this is likely a popular 'sport' and anything you see - will have been seen by plenty of others [06:59]
decimation perhaps I could change the bitcoin addresses to something friendly :) [07:00]
assbot Logged on 03-01-2014 03:15:35; asciilifeform: there are tor exits silently pumping ascii through 'sed' or the like, slipping 'friendly' btc addrs in place of originals. [07:00]
asciilifeform must assume this happens, whether 'tor' or simply playful isp / backbone operator [07:01]
asciilifeform see also earlier discussion of swallowing rsa signatures of people you don't know [07:01]
asciilifeform same applies here [07:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9425 @ 0.00084908 = 8.0026 BTC [-] [07:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00084905 = 3.2654 BTC [-] [07:36]
mircea_popescu that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach. [08:00]
mircea_popescu we're decentralized over here. [08:00]
mircea_popescu difference being, between how a soviet rocket works and how a school of salmon works. [08:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18372 @ 0.00084825 = 15.584 BTC [-] {4} [08:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00084497 = 3.4035 BTC [-] [08:03]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: thing is - these salmon want - a rocket. and so will have to do some things they're unaccustomed to. [08:30]
asciilifeform while remaining salmon, sure. [08:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18869 @ 0.00084497 = 15.9437 BTC [-] [08:33]
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* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [08:45]
BingoBoingo The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption [08:46]
cazalla well, they do swim against the current [09:02]
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ben_vulpes << forks are great yo quit bitching [09:15]
assbot midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement [09:15]
ben_vulpes forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable. [09:15]
ben_vulpes "Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm. [09:20]
ben_vulpes " My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen [09:23]
ben_vulpes "I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations. [09:25]
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* assbot gives voice to Vexual [09:29]
ben_vulpes evening vex [09:31]
Vexual 'evening good sir [09:32]
ben_vulpes great logs tonight [09:35]
* ben_vulpes applauds [09:35]
ben_vulpes top notch [09:35]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes how's the coffee ? [09:40]
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* assbot gives voice to punkman [09:51]
punkman dobro jutro [09:52]
Vexual hi punk [09:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00084497 = 13.3505 BTC [-] [10:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8076 @ 0.0008495 = 6.8606 BTC [+] [10:06]
punkman [10:09]
assbot Parov Stelar - Booty Swing - YouTube [10:09]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker [10:14]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.06, Best ask: 504.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.67000, Last trade: 504.0, 24 hour volume: 7779.59236845, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 507.673992263 [10:14]
BingoBoingo %v [10:14]
atcbot [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 30d-Vol: 1.64M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 197 [10:14]
BingoBoingo %t [10:14]
atcbot [X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A [10:14]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23999999 = 0.72 BTC [+] [10:15]
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* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [10:24]
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pete_dushenski asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours! [10:26]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp. << sounds aboot like but less original [10:27]
assbot Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski [10:27]
pete_dushenski also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good! [10:30]
BingoBoingo [10:33]
assbot Charlie Shrem Hopes to Walk Free After Guilty Plea Deal [10:33]
pete_dushenski [10:33]
assbot Mr. /CharlieShrem, in taking it in the pooper like so only proved his mousy illiteracy [10:33]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: you win [10:33]
pete_dushenski this round [10:33]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Win what? [10:34]
pete_dushenski the marbles [10:34]
Vexual your link post arrived first [10:35]
pete_dushenski [10:35]
assbot German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists. (ger) [10:35]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: >> lmao check out douchecanoe << ;-) [10:36]
assbot Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [10:36]
pete_dushenski Vexual: o hey [10:36]
pete_dushenski so sydney... [10:36]
pete_dushenski hipster spots are fine, but classics are better [10:37]
Vexual i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm [10:37]
pete_dushenski well… have. and yes. [10:37]
pete_dushenski more looking for something unique [10:38]
Vexual get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs [10:38]
Vexual find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong [10:40]
pete_dushenski << this one? [10:40]
assbot Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor [10:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9424 @ 0.00085299 = 8.0386 BTC [+] {2} [10:40]
Vexual prolly [10:41]
pete_dushenski [10:41]
assbot Dixon House Food Court Restaurant Reviews, Sydney, Australia - TripAdvisor [10:41]
pete_dushenski aite [10:41]
pete_dushenski so far so good. [10:42]
Vexual at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel [10:42]
Vexual old cobbled streets, these days with lights [10:43]
Vexual then theres a jazz spot a stumble away, where you can drink all the martinis [10:43]
Vexual they all have halal options, and if you dont get jazz, they play blues [10:44]
cazalla check out "the block" at redfern [10:46]
pete_dushenski yum. [10:46]
cazalla Vexual will vouch it's tops [10:46]
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pete_dushenski lolk [10:47]
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* MiningBuddy has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [10:48]
Vexual gentrified by hipsters these days [10:49]
pete_dushenski the block is the aboriginal thing? [10:49]
pete_dushenski [10:49]
assbot Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary [10:49]
Vexual youll also find cafes, tech startups, and old gangsters [10:50]
Vexual when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence [10:51]
pete_dushenski woa [10:52]
pete_dushenski we're not staying far from there [10:52]
Vexual dont high five any cops [10:52]
pete_dushenski we're just at the south tip of hyde park [10:53]
pete_dushenski unless the cops high five me... [10:53]
Vexual :) it's all good [10:53]
cazalla redfern isn't what it was so don't worry too much [10:53]
Vexual when are you going? [10:54]
Vexual ive excluded dinner spots over 2btc with waiting lists [10:55]
pete_dushenski december [10:55]
cazalla drop bears in season [10:55]
Vexual sydney is hot in december [10:56]
pete_dushenski lol so i hear [10:56]
Vexual melb might be hotter? [10:57]
cazalla not unless heatwave [10:58]
Vexual if you wanna go 5 star you vould try quay [10:59]
pete_dushenski historical averages have melbourne 5-10C warmer [10:59]
pete_dushenski quay looks seriously premium [11:01]
cazalla melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney [11:03]
cazalla winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course [11:04]
Vexual wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty [11:04]
cazalla tbh i'd fuck sydney/melbourne off and go to tassie [11:04]
Vexual er sexy [11:04]
Vexual foodies paradise [11:05]
pete_dushenski “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.” [11:08]
pete_dushenski “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy. [11:08]
pete_dushenski “Because I was afraid.” [11:08]
Vexual king island cheese [11:09]
pete_dushenski who doesn't like a fine cheese? [11:09]
Vexual not i [11:10]
pete_dushenski ;;google tassie [11:10]
gribble Tassie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; The Silver Tassie (play) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Urban Dictionary: Tassie: [11:10]
cazalla bruny island cheese nicer [11:10]
Vexual ooh [11:10]
Vexual never tried [11:10]
pete_dushenski a yes. tasmania. [11:10]
cazalla Vexual [11:10]
assbot Bruny Island Cheese :: home [11:10]
Vexual goo in pinot and vine leaves? yes please [11:12]
pete_dushenski just looking up ferries from melbourne to tassie: 10.5 hours! [11:15]
Vexual your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there [11:15]
cazalla pete_dushenski, bring you own food if you ever take spirit of tasmania [11:16]
cazalla Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in [11:16]
pete_dushenski plus bruny island's shop is clear on the other side of the island from devonport [11:16]
pete_dushenski [11:16]
assbot L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker [11:16]
cazalla you can always fly to hobart [11:17]
Vexual cazalla, they prolly already have rabbits there [11:17]
cazalla Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there [11:18]
cazalla taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat [11:19]
Vexual anyone vauum packing them and flying them to resturants? [11:19]
Vexual yeah eat em and get new ones [11:19]
cazalla dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs [11:19]
Vexual theres costs, and theres value [11:20]
cazalla i think it's due to calici and costs of vax [11:20]
cazalla [11:21]
assbot Rabbit meat farms disappear due to virus and costs - YouTube [11:21]
Vexual i guess you dont have that problem in your backyard [11:21]
cazalla not yet [11:21]
Vexual well it couldnt get in [11:21]
Vexual but you know about intensive farming [11:21]
Vexual a terrier run around the paddock should do the same as suburbia [11:22]
Vexual put your house in the middle [11:22]
Vexual get some plum trees and do plum rabbit [11:23]
cazalla that sounds yum [11:23]
cazalla when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild [11:24]
Vexual ).05bc, air express [11:24]
cazalla i sell you? [11:25]
Vexual learn bees too [11:25]
Vexual yeah ill buy [11:25]
cazalla not worth my time at .05 [11:25]
Vexual yeah, but in time [11:25]
cazalla i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here [11:26]
Vexual my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding [11:26]
cazalla how much do they charge? [11:27]
Vexual i think its just south of 10 bucks a kilo [11:27]
cazalla that's cheap, prob intensively farmed [11:28]
Vexual and thats a long transport [11:28]
Vexual how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild? [11:29]
punkman wild doesnt have zone [11:29]
cazalla i figured like 1/4 acre or something [11:29]
punkman you ever try wild hare? [11:29]
Vexual :) some of these cattle stations could call their beef wild [11:29]
cazalla punkman, no but i'd like to [11:30]
Vexual never tried hare [11:30]
cazalla red meat yeah? [11:30]
punkman yeah all dark meat [11:30]
Vexual arent they just big rabbits? [11:30]
Vexual oh [11:30]
cazalla nah they are totally difference [11:31]
cazalla different even [11:31]
punkman I'm not really sure about the taxonomy [11:31]
punkman but they are considered a delicacy around here, cuz we ate them all [11:31]
Vexual lol [11:31]
Vexual there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is [11:32]
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Vexual you'll prolly get a fucking government grant [11:33]
cazalla it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves [11:34]
punkman haven't heard of anyone farming them [11:35]
punkman they don't like a crowd [11:37]
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Vexual terriers will keep em lean [11:38]
Vexual and they wont dig out [11:39]
Vexual cheap ammo for harvest:wild [11:40]
Vexual thats less like fraud than spoofing your bitcoin client version [11:44]
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pete_dushenski ;;rate ben_vulpes 3 runs van-ads live from the 504 [11:57]
gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ben_vulpes has changed from 1 to 3. [11:57]
pete_dushenski ey looks like stephane dun approved of my translation. i'll take it! [11:59]
pete_dushenski [11:59]
assbot InfoSec Education: Because Stphane Bortzmeyer Is Lazy. And I’m Not. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski [11:59]
Vexual lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz [12:00]
Naphex - I call this artistic chart, "Saved By The Cache" :) [12:02]
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Vexual oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10 [12:03]
pete_dushenski Vexual: nice. ty. [12:04]
cazalla all made in china [12:05]
cazalla this the markets Vexual? [12:06]
Vexual i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes [12:06]
pete_dushenski time for sleeps. g'night b-a! [12:08]
Vexual Naphex: what site? looks similar to "spam fail" [12:08]
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BingoBoingo,36779/ [12:12]
assbot Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source [12:12]
BingoBoingo,36809/ [12:13]
assbot Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo | The Onion - America's Finest News Source [12:13]
Vexual nothing quite like the onion [12:15]
BingoBoingo Better than the Times [12:15]
Vexual full fucking effect [12:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085477 = 9.6162 BTC [+] {2} [12:22]
Vexual only chinese vets could claim a panda faked a pregnancy [12:27]
Vexual the actual pregnat panda, the one that pissed on the stich has been hung [12:30]
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Vexual ;;google erowid mason jar [12:41]
gribble Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : Bong & Pipe FAQ: ; Erowid Mushroom Vaults : Cultivation Tips: ; Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Storage in CO2: [12:41]
Vexual [12:43]
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Vexual reverse cronology and the price of safrole [13:09]
kakobrekla dobro jutro < lol what got into you [13:23]
punkman feeling balkan today [13:25]
Vexual [13:27]
kakobrekla well dobro jutro to you too ;) [13:27]
Vexual what time is it there kako? [13:28]
kakobrekla 12.27 [13:28]
Vexual bacon or bacon? [13:28]
kakobrekla spam [13:29]
Vexual my heart [13:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1229 @ 0.00085473 = 1.0505 BTC [-] [13:30]
cazalla [13:31]
assbot 15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report | National Report [13:31]
cazalla i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies [13:32]
punkman [13:33]
Vexual i dunno why he's crying, outcomes coulda been worse [13:33]
punkman maybe they are tired of all the swatting [13:34]
kakobrekla coulda been wrose? [13:35]
kakobrekla worse* [13:35]
kakobrekla like what, life in prison? [13:35]
punkman [13:38]
assbot Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE | Stop Masturbation Now [13:38]
cazalla it's fake btw [13:38]
Vexual its a job [13:38]
cazalla not that, the swatting article [13:39]
Vexual yeah, they might have told him about the"fucking with the police" ward [13:40]
kakobrekla what is this another onion ? [13:40]
Vexual everythings onion [13:40]
cazalla yeah, sorry kakobrekla, Vexual is right [13:41]
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Vexual not quite [13:42]
Vexual but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love [13:45]
cazalla !s [13:45]
assbot 1 results for '' : [13:45]
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BingoBoingo kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories. [13:47]
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jurov ;;later tell MolokoDesk if tao_jones has working replacement of ;;calc I am all for having it here [13:49]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:49]
RagnarDanneskjol yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others [13:50]
RagnarDanneskjol [13:50]
assbot Tao_Jones Quickstart [13:50]
RagnarDanneskjol I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend [13:51]
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kakobrekla BingoBoingo sounded like texas to me [13:51]
Vexual .bait [13:51]
BingoBoingo ;;bait [13:53]
gribble Error: "bait" is not a valid command. [13:53]
BingoBoingo !bait [13:53]
kakobrekla just use the fly fishing rod. [13:53]
BingoBoingo !t m s.limbs [13:54]
assbot Quest for vision is a great blessing. [13:54]
Vexual either was my wrist hurts [13:54]
Vexual i see ykyo there lurking [13:59]
Vexual dya think he might develop a sense of humour? [14:00]
fluffypony !up csshih [14:05]
fluffypony ;;ident [14:06]
gribble Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!', is not identified. [14:06]
fluffypony oh [14:06]
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Vexual missgivings aside theres lessons unleant [14:06]
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fluffypony !up csshih [14:06]
* assbot gives voice to csshih [14:06]
fluffypony csshih: ping [14:06]
csshih fluffypony, hi [14:07]
Vexual !down fluffy pony [14:07]
Vexual bwahah [14:07]
fluffypony csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles? [14:07]
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csshih zebralight dominates in that category imo [14:09]
csshih you looking for high-ish cri? [14:09]
fluffypony yeah [14:09]
fluffypony it's definitely the brightest [14:09]
Vexual grown legs? what do your dogs do? [14:09]
fluffypony and 4 day run time at 2.1 Lm is insane [14:09]
fluffypony Vexual: we're talking about flashlights, not dogs :-P [14:10]
Vexual grown legs means gone? [14:11]
fluffypony yes [14:11]
Vexual presumably stolen [14:12]
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fluffypony yeah I would imagine so [14:12]
Vexual u might need something with d's [14:13]
Vexual and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee [14:14]
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kakobrekla !up Ukyo [14:16]
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kakobrekla so how come you are still here? [14:16]
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Vexual lol anus [14:22]
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Vexual [14:25]
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jurov [02:52:59] but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. << hahaha. actually, we kept original design done by scrat [14:28]
kakobrekla did you have another design done? [14:28]
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kakobrekla ;;tslb [14:30]
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gribble Time since last block: 35 minutes and 50 seconds [14:30]
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Vexual ;;later tell ben_vulpes [14:32]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:32]
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Vexual [14:39]
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jurov kakobrekla, only tuned logo so far [15:01]
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wyrdmantis [15:35]
wyrdmantis adding more confusion [15:37]
wyrdmantis [15:39]
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mircea_popescu wyrdmantis "blablablabla i am an idiot tralalala". fify. [16:17]
mircea_popescu dude needs to take his pills. [16:18]
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mircea_popescu cazalla: i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies << lawl [16:24]
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mircea_popescu <<< police charges unrelated 15 yo for their shooting of a guy whose home they were invading. [16:26]
mircea_popescu such a wow us. [16:27]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "Just because metaphysics creaks on as a sub-discipline in Philosophy because of disputes in the nuance of what "is" precisely is, does not " << you can't chain the two different types of because like that. [16:46]
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Category: Logs
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