Forum logs for 24 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mentioned on account of separate-box [00:00]
asciilifeform there is no space in the future for commodore 64, and yet i have one [00:00]
asciilifeform that was not the point. [00:00]
mircea_popescu but i'm discussing YOUR HOME BOX. not some rando box you run. [00:00]
asciilifeform from where comes this perverse scenario of 'one box' [00:00]
asciilifeform serious toilet-kitchen separation problem [00:00]
mircea_popescu do you have a system you work on ? [00:01]
asciilifeform folks who 'one box' HAVE NO BUSINESS with bitcoin [00:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have several. [00:01]
mircea_popescu sure. [00:01]
mircea_popescu so you want to not be able to run bitcoin on them ? [00:01]
asciilifeform perfectly happy to run it in vm on them, if it comes to it [00:01]
asciilifeform (if we give it own os, with custom fs, etc) [00:02]
asciilifeform the way i presently run msdos. [00:02]
adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380428 [00:02]
assbot Logged on 22-01-2016 00:00:44; BingoBoingo: So next year will be 3 months to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc. [00:02]
mircea_popescu wouldn't it be a shitton cheaper to not need a vm layer if at all avoidable ? [00:02]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not if it gangrenes the code with #ifdefs. [00:02]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 here's the problem with "Bitcoinos" : you will want it adapted for bitcoin needs, which necessarily means it won't be your tool of choice for doing almost anything else, which necessarily means maintaining it will be a pain in the ass. << agree. I think that what I'm getting at is maybe it ends up being like cisco ios. [00:02]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform is ifdefs REALLY the only way to do this ? [00:02]
polarbeard bitcoinos would be based on what? I think that's the interesting part [00:02]
asciilifeform the actual speed penalty of vmization is perhaps 10% [00:03]
mod6 its a thing, it gets flashed on to some firmware, and it basically just is, you can talk to it and use it, but it is its own thing. [00:03]
mircea_popescu mod6 this i called the "pogo" approach to it. [00:03]
mircea_popescu polarbeard that's an even sadder story. [00:03]
mod6 right. exactly similar to this. [00:03]
polarbeard unikernel? [00:03]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: bsd is retarded from the linux pov (or, if you're a bsd aficionado, vice-versa) [00:03]
mod6 yah yah, watch it ;) [00:03]
asciilifeform polarbeard: based on trb. [00:03]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah i guess most of the problem comes from that chasm. we're not the first to meet it. [00:03]
polarbeard how do you talk with the cpu, memory, network, disk? [00:04]
mircea_popescu polarbeard most of those will have to be written de novo, basically. esp the filesystem. [00:04]
asciilifeform polarbeard: you open a book and read ? start with, e.g., tannenbaum ? [00:04]
mircea_popescu (or from a security perspective, esp the cpu and memory) [00:04]
asciilifeform polarbeard: or go to school, if you're the sort of person who goes in for that [00:05]
polarbeard lol, ok, gl [00:05]
asciilifeform (i happen to have done both) [00:05]
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mircea_popescu so basically my tentative takeaway here is that we'll mostly try to maintain broad linux-compatibility and try and help interested parties keep the wheels oiled and turning on stuff like bsd. [00:06]
mod6 yeah, for now. seems the most viable approach. [00:06]
mircea_popescu but riddle me this : how does user know his openbsd make process isn't satan's own ? [00:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94029 @ 0.00056321 = 52.9581 BTC [+] {3} [00:07]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383614 << whoawut? [00:07]
mircea_popescu seems we're slowly falling exactly into http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382912 [00:07]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 02:36:26; asciilifeform: tinyscheme welded onto trb [00:07]
assbot Logged on 23-01-2016 18:15:49; mircea_popescu: dude speaking of "provability" bs. FSB are "provably secure" because it can be proven they're at least as hard as regular syndrome decoding. which is np complete. while we don't actually know if THAT is in fact resolvable in polynomial time or not, nevertheless... PROVEDLY SECURE!!11 [00:07]
asciilifeform how does linux user know ? [00:07]
mircea_popescu "v is provably secure. now go build it!" [00:07]
mod6 this is perhaps were a seperate branch of V for bsd only comes in. or maybe i misunderstand. [00:07]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: thread concerned an experiment [00:07]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: that i am carrying out presently [00:07]
ben_vulpes how does tinyscheme couple into ri source? [00:08]
asciilifeform with hands. [00:08]
mircea_popescu mod6 in the end we'll need a v thread for the source, one for the manual, one for linux make one for bsd make etc ? like 4 ? [00:08]
ben_vulpes this is a wonder i would greatly like to see myself [00:08]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i got it to compile ages ago, the tricky bit is to add useful tendrils into it [00:08]
asciilifeform so you can meaningfully probe the living trb [00:08]
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ben_vulpes this'd be hooks into running bitcoind memory space and such? [00:09]
mod6 mircea_popescu: excellent point. [00:09]
asciilifeform it runs in own thread, you telnet into it [00:09]
* ben_vulpes mind boggles [00:09]
asciilifeform very barbaric [00:09]
ben_vulpes the shit these reversers can do [00:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so you added tinyscheme to have sexpr rather than json, and now you telnet into scheme ? [00:09]
asciilifeform i'm not even 100% convinced that it isn't braindamaged yet, must be seen [00:09]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's my motherfucking tx debugger [00:10]
asciilifeform dont like it, write me a new one, aha [00:10]
mircea_popescu lol i'ma cook you some toilet soup in a moment! [00:10]
asciilifeform mmm. [00:10]
mod6 haha [00:10]
mircea_popescu understand mod6 : the thing that scared me above isnm't per se the fact that now we need 4, but that well... it grew. might be we're sitting on some unbounded complexity / a loose recursion tail. [00:11]
mircea_popescu next week, 12 ? 255 ? [00:11]
mod6 sure, the whole: 1, 2, inf. problem. [00:11]
mircea_popescu so this has to be pondered upon. [00:12]
asciilifeform sorta why i say it has to converge. [00:12]
asciilifeform to 1. [00:12]
asciilifeform incl. hardware. [00:12]
asciilifeform as in, canonical ~physical object~ [00:12]
asciilifeform bits included. [00:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nothing converges if the path to convergence is expensive. [00:12]
asciilifeform aha, didn't say it has any danger of happening. [00:12]
asciilifeform but that 'has to' [00:12]
asciilifeform to work as intended. [00:12]
mircea_popescu are you an engineer or a priest today ? [00:12]
* asciilifeform is probably both, at least in re: professional life [00:13]
mircea_popescu check it out, he no longer cleaves things :D [00:14]
asciilifeform i promise to say if i ever manage to cleave these. [00:14]
mircea_popescu incidentally in today's random : https://projects.csail.mit.edu/church/wiki/Models_with_Unbounded_Complexity [00:15]
assbot Models with Unbounded Complexity - Church Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuWZhm ) [00:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu's been playing with Church lang ?! [00:15]
mod6 asciilifeform: so are we basically, with rotor, able to not only build a static bitcoind, but couldn't we also build a flashable rom that contains said static binary - a flashable universe so to speak? [00:16]
mircea_popescu no. i deny all such allegations at this time. [00:16]
asciilifeform mod6: this was my original objective with pogo [00:16]
mod6 right. [00:16]
mircea_popescu mod6 that's what started all this [00:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68850 @ 0.00055508 = 38.2173 BTC [-] {3} [00:17]
mod6 yah, i still think this might be a resonable path. but lot of thought still must go into this whole thing. tonight was a great discussion on it tho. [00:17]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lulzy link, it very closely resembles an undergrad homework of mine [00:17]
mod6 does anyone else think that this is *not* a decent consideration at least? even taking into consideration the issues we ran into with pogo? [00:18]
mircea_popescu what do you mean ? [00:18]
mod6 eh, sorry: does the idea of a flashable universe built from rotor still make sense. [00:18]
mircea_popescu definitely. [00:19]
mod6 i think it could be pretty neat, in the end. [00:20]
mod6 you buy a flash rom (from S.NSA? or from local place you trust??) then get V, build a flashable universe, flash the card, drop it into some device and then you can talk to it over some wire from your work station [00:20]
mircea_popescu http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << this doesn't actually work, i've seen gb+ debug.logs [00:21]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuTHee ) [00:21]
asciilifeform mod6: the principal obstacle is the lack of a computer. [00:21]
mod6 (im just spitballing here) [00:21]
asciilifeform we don't have a computer. [00:21]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: good because I'm removing it [00:21]
mircea_popescu it really doesn't belong anywhere. [00:22]
mircea_popescu if (file && GetFilesize(file) > 10 * 1000000) [00:22]
mircea_popescu can't even figure out a magic number, needs 2. [00:22]
polarbeard do we agree in using an external tool for this? [00:22]
mircea_popescu polarbeard do you understand how v and wot works ? [00:22]
polarbeard I guess I do, but please follow [00:23]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> we don't have a computer. << well, this goes back to the same thing. currently we're married to some linux varient to do (future) building of flashable universe [00:23]
mircea_popescu to put it in you'll have to sign it. if it turns out later to have a hole, people will negrate you. [00:23]
mircea_popescu so read it eight times. [00:23]
asciilifeform polarbeard: where i come from we have a proverb, 'the sapper errs - once.' [00:24]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/the-sad-state-of-bitcoin-code/#selection-5307.1-5307.37 << taking out area #5307 ftw. [00:24]
assbot The sad state of Bitcoin code on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuXsjC ) [00:24]
polarbeard I'm building better logging in two steps, first I lay out better and prefixed messages, people can review that [00:24]
mircea_popescu polarbeard you'll still have to sign it. there's no way out of this. [00:25]
polarbeard sure, no problem with that [00:25]
mircea_popescu so as they say, don't sign anything you might regret. [00:25]
mircea_popescu fwiw i have a lot more faith in code someone read than in code someone wrote. [00:25]
polarbeard oh well, my soul has already an owner [00:26]
mircea_popescu the former implies the latter. [00:26]
polarbeard returning to the retarded-rotator, will somebody miss it? [00:27]
polarbeard it supposedly overwrites the log and (how considerate) leaves you a few lines from the old one [00:28]
mod6 not if someone builds something that works, and does not break anything. [00:28]
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mircea_popescu no. [00:29]
polarbeard well, I use logrotate, but I'm a linux-lowlife [00:29]
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mircea_popescu incidentally, if something like char pch[200000]; is inside an if, what does the compiler usually do ? allocate it at program start or not ? [00:29]
polarbeard inside a func? has to be called [00:30]
mircea_popescu and so if it can find 200k contiguos this actually fucking crashes ? [00:30]
mod6 it should ask the os for 200k of mem, this should be allocated in pages (usually 4k ea. iirc) it may not be contiguos [00:32]
mircea_popescu ah it doesn't want to get the whole byte ? [00:32]
mircea_popescu i thought it did. [00:32]
mod6 no it shouldnt crash unless there is no more ram left available in the entire computer. [00:32]
mod6 i could be wrong here. [00:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00056432 = 21.9238 BTC [+] {3} [00:32]
mod6 asciilifeform: ? [00:33]
mircea_popescu "// "Never go to sea with two chronometers; take one or three." Our three time sources are: System clock ; Median of other nodes's clocks ; The user (asking the user to fix the system clock if the first two disagree)" [00:33]
mircea_popescu the more one reads, the less one likes. [00:33]
mircea_popescu seriously, MEDIAN ? seriously, this is three ? fuck me. [00:33]
mircea_popescu "never go to sea with two clocks. take one or three. so we're taking two but one has a special button to press to ask it if it's really sure. if it is it squaks audibly." [00:34]
mircea_popescu "at least most of the time". [00:34]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383521 << collapse is an exponential not a linear process. [00:35]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 02:05:25; ben_vulpes: i thought there'd be about another 5 years before things got this nutso [00:35]
polarbeard lol, I'm following the rabbit hole and it seems pszSetDataDir is not set if -datadir not given [00:36]
polarbeard therefore never shittyrotating [00:36]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: do you use -datadir? [00:37]
mircea_popescu which is why nobody uses datadir, because wtf you do with munged 200kb logfiles. [00:37]
mod6 i do: [00:37]
mod6 # du -sh /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin/debug.log [00:37]
mod6 12G /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin/debug.log [00:37]
polarbeard ugh [00:37]
polarbeard you use datadir but give the default dir? [00:37]
mircea_popescu oh it doesn't work anyway ? [00:38]
mod6 no, i use /mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin since mine is in an attached volume. [00:38]
mod6 not ~/.bitcoin [00:38]
polarbeard allright, then shittyRotate() is there to give hope [00:39]
mircea_popescu maybe it only works on windows 95. [00:39]
polarbeard surely was introduced for it, windows users see logs as a feature [00:40]
mod6 which btw for testers is kinda nice -- you can make a really large volume and attach to which ever instance at will and keep your OS small, or swap it out easily without ever having to clobber your build/sandbox area [00:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00056453 = 13.2947 BTC [+] [00:45]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: the principal obstacle is the lack of a computer. << oh you're saying a target arch here? or? [00:47]
polarbeard the quality of the error messages: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#1299 [00:49]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1RGn4R7 ) [00:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74209 @ 0.00056453 = 41.8932 BTC [+] [00:50]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383835 << where ? [00:51]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:26:58; mircea_popescu: incidentally, if something like char pch[200000]; is inside an if, what does the compiler usually do ? allocate it at program start or not ? [00:51]
asciilifeform the answer depends on whether it is a global declaration or inside a function [00:51]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383837 << if it were inside a function, the ~stack~ must contain that many contiguous free bts [00:52]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:28:26; mircea_popescu: and so if it can find 200k contiguos this actually fucking crashes ? [00:52]
asciilifeform or overflows. [00:52]
asciilifeform if ~global~, the process data segment will be stretched to fit, and if os does not like this, process will get oomkilled on load [00:53]
mod6 the only place i can find that is in util.cpp:ShrinkDebugFile() [00:53]
polarbeard that's the one [00:53]
mod6 char pch[200000]; [00:53]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383848 << 1st time i saw this, i misread, 'two cocks' [00:53]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:31:44; mircea_popescu: "never go to sea with two clocks. take one or three. so we're taking two but one has a special button to press to ask it if it's really sure. if it is it squaks audibly." [00:53]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383869 << we don't have a computer that you can buy that makes this concept have a point [00:55]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:45:09; mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: the principal obstacle is the lack of a computer. << oh you're saying a target arch here? or? [00:55]
asciilifeform (the os in flash thing) [00:55]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383837 << if it were inside a function, the ~stack~ must contain that many contiguous free bts << i guess this makes sense. i dunno why i was thinking that it might not be. [00:57]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:28:26; mircea_popescu: and so if it can find 200k contiguos this actually fucking crashes ? [00:57]
mod6 i gotta read up on paging again i guess. [00:57]
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asciilifeform mod6: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_prologue [01:00]
assbot Function prologue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuYThX ) [01:00]
asciilifeform ^ basic mechanics [01:00]
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asciilifeform http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/09/06/stack-frame-layout-on-x86-64 << better picture [01:01]
assbot Stack frame layout on x86-64 - Eli Bendersky's website ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuYTP4 ) [01:01]
asciilifeform ^ for n00bz [01:01]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_prologue << yup, know about this from asm stuff i've done. [01:02]
assbot Function prologue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuYThX ) [01:02]
mod6 thanks for the links tho [01:02]
asciilifeform so then you know what it means to allocate on the stack. [01:02]
mod6 ya, i think i was just confusing some kern shit that i'd read. [01:03]
mod6 memory allocation is done by the os at runtime. when you ask for some bytes, there are kern mechinisms that handle this request, are there not? [01:06]
asciilifeform heap [01:06]
asciilifeform ;;google sbrk [01:06]
gribble sbrk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; sbrk(2): change data segment size - Linux man page: ; brk - The Open Group: [01:06]
* mod6 pulls out the book [01:08]
asciilifeform and hah, looks like mircea_popescu said 'inside an if' [01:10]
asciilifeform so this means in function, on the stack. [01:10]
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mod6 ya [01:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.000557 = 24.3409 BTC [-] {2} [01:17]
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mod6 maybe i was just remembering this: "Most machine architectures provide a contiguous virutal address space for processes. Some machine architectures, however, choose to partition visibly a process's virtual address space into regious termed segments [intel, 1984]. [01:18]
mod6 Such segments usually must be phyiscally contiguous in main memory and must begin at fixed addresses. We shall be concenred with only those systems that do not visibly segment their virtual address space." [01:20]
mod6 *shrug* [01:20]
mod6 This is from: Design & Implementation of the FreeBSD Operating System by McKusick [01:21]
mod6 anyway, yah, its not like it called malloc or whatever, its on the stack. i am retard. [01:48]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb [02:00]
gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2582.0, vol: 67307.60100000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2582.0 [02:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33007 @ 0.00055871 = 18.4413 BTC [+] {2} [02:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52730 @ 0.00056453 = 29.7677 BTC [+] [02:05]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform it was inside function. [02:15]
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mircea_popescu but in happier news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/0ff0aff9dffec8a9a978794148cd219e/tumblr_mjw7i4bmlm1qfaf1fo1_1280.jpg [02:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsMkm8 ) [02:20]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes the gf-nordstorm graph is pretty cool, you made it ? [02:21]
mircea_popescu apparently not. [02:22]
ben_vulpes i most certainly did! [02:25]
mircea_popescu then why does it say blqabla.com on the bottom? [02:28]
ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2016/01/23_money-trust-and-the-wild-wild-web-a-socioeconomic-history-of-ssl-or-that-green-lock-symbol-in-your-browser.html#fn.7 [02:30]
assbot Money, Trust, and the Wild Wild Web (A socioeconomic history of SSL, or that green lock symbol in your browser) ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsN7n0 ) [02:30]
* BingoBoingo finally stitching together popular hegelian piece since slow news weekend [02:30]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: footnote just for you, baby [02:31]
ben_vulpes hrm that reorder's the piece's footnotes [02:32]
ben_vulpes AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [02:32]
ben_vulpes i fucking hate my webthing. [02:32]
mircea_popescu that;s a good thing. [02:33]
ben_vulpes why? people's links will break if i go back and add intervening footnotes. [02:34]
mircea_popescu and references break if guy goes back and adds pages in the middle of his book wtf. [02:35]
mircea_popescu and if you write "shoez rulez" today and then change it to "shoez sux srsly" next week, people's idea of your idea of shoes also breaks. [02:36]
ben_vulpes so what, i ditch current shitty static site generator and tell everyone who linked to shit previously to get fucked and find the new linxz? [02:38]
ben_vulpes i thought la serenissima's webfacists hated linkrot [02:38]
BingoBoingo Kinda why eventual #b-a library where people put text from outside the wot for preservation from molestation would have some similarity to deeding. [02:38]
ben_vulpes i personally dgaf. it's my server. [02:38]
ben_vulpes move the files wherever i want [02:38]
ben_vulpes *cartman head wobble* [02:38]
mircea_popescu suppose you think about what you wanna say, say it, and then let it be ? [02:40]
mircea_popescu can't turn the whole web into a signal processor. [02:40]
ben_vulpes i do not see what relationship the directory structure has to the things i have said, other than they expose the retarded toolchain i used to get them on the public net in the first place. [02:42]
ben_vulpes all that aside, when i finally ditch this thing, i will preserve the shit that's already on disk. [02:42]
mircea_popescu meanwhile back at feminist camp, http://49.media.tumblr.com/c9f987d117dbe8e493a4861958689f15/tumblr_n7emvhuFmg1rv5wh5o1_400.gif [02:43]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NsNQVq ) [02:43]
* dooglus_ is now known as dooglus [02:44]
ben_vulpes hahaha [02:46]
ben_vulpes it's usually the captions or contextuality of mircea_popescu's pr0n that gets me lolling [02:46]
mircea_popescu lol [02:46]
ben_vulpes heh i am still snickering about that one [02:47]
ben_vulpes hey does anyone have suggestions for a non-retarded display manager? [02:48]
ben_vulpes for once in my short life i would like to not piss on a fence. [02:48]
ben_vulpes something that looks hella nineties would be top notch [02:48]
BingoBoingo dwm [02:54]
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BingoBoingo http://dwm.suckless.org/ [02:59]
assbot suckless.org dwm - dynamic window manager ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZVEazh ) [02:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00055871 = 3.9668 BTC [-] [03:01]
ben_vulpes nah all i need is the display manager, i'm going to use emacs for window mgmt [03:03]
ben_vulpes ;;ud hackin [03:14]
gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hackin | hackin'. a different way to say freakin/fuckin. its an adjective. fred on youtube uses it a lot. Fred: Hey, it's Fred! And I'm really hackin' mad right now because Judy ... [03:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 202400 @ 0.00055692 = 112.7206 BTC [-] {7} [03:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00056489 = 35.4186 BTC [+] {2} [03:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19715 @ 0.0005637 = 11.1133 BTC [-] [03:52]
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deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Drones… sono finiti! - http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/24/drones-sono-finiti/ [03:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5886 @ 0.00056004 = 3.2964 BTC [-] {2} [04:03]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383497 << "excuse me sir, i have an ear infucktion. i cunt hear you." [04:03]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 01:51:14; adlai: fwiw friend who teaches classics at a usg 'prep school' attests to having had a student excused from any and all performance standards due to APD (which stands for 'auditory processing disorder') [04:03]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383534 << "and we DEMAND that you hire useless hobos" [04:05]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 02:10:26; ben_vulpes: "We DEMAND that the workload given to employees be reflective of their abilities...should not be given a workload that they cannot handle." [04:05]
pete_dushenski http://imgur.com/a/yFUTu << in other humour, citi's willem buiter has a new nickname for us "cyber boys" [04:08]
assbot Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet ... ( http://bit.ly/20lQeXd ) [04:08]
pete_dushenski though buiter is right about the silliness of bitcoin tx being costless. such strawman. [04:08]
pete_dushenski http://www.businessinsider.com/one-couple-lived-off-food-waste-for-6-months-2016-1?utm_source=feedly&utm_medium=referral#/%23about-60-of-consumers-are-throwing-food-away-prematurely-because-they-dont-understand-what-the-dates-are-telling-them-explained-gunders-4 << one for asciilifeform [04:09]
assbot One couple lived off food waste for 6 months - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/20lQl54 ) [04:09]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: is this a 'freegan' thing? [04:11]
mircea_popescu "cyber boys" as opposed to what, banking girls ? [04:11]
ben_vulpes http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/24/drones-sono-finiti/#footnote_1_6779 << i swear to god i read this elsewhere recently [04:12]
assbot Drones… sono finiti! | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ju1j4o ) [04:12]
mircea_popescu lol derp, "this thing that happened shows that this thing i presume is correct because reasons so ergo!" [04:12]
mircea_popescu !rate willem buiter -1 lolz [04:12]
assbot Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. [04:12]
pete_dushenski huh. great minds or something [04:13]
pete_dushenski ^ ben_vulpes [04:13]
ben_vulpes either that or i'm living a week in the future somehow [04:13]
pete_dushenski hi ben, it's the future calling, gentoo all ready to go, sir ! [04:13]
ben_vulpes NOT YET LOL [04:14]
ben_vulpes i mean some bits of it work [04:14]
ben_vulpes but i think i need to recompile the kernel [04:14]
ben_vulpes again [04:14]
ben_vulpes still now [04:14]
ben_vulpes now again [04:14]
ben_vulpes again now [04:14]
BingoBoingo The Joys of Sobriety: Going back to read yourself from 2014 and being pleasantly surprised with something you completely dissolved the memory of having written in industrial solvent. [04:15]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: at this rate imma completely give up and just run 10.6 [04:16]
ben_vulpes put gentoo in a vm for building ri's [04:16]
pete_dushenski alf has a copy ready and waiting. nib. [04:16]
ben_vulpes miserable fucking workflow. [04:16]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: i think those shit-spreaders were less of a 'freegan' and more of a 'let's see what it's like to be derpizens of the great nation of afrika'. fwiw. [04:17]
ben_vulpes lol wut and now it simply refuses to boot! [04:17]
pete_dushenski LMAO [04:17]
ben_vulpes after five reboots in a row it just gives up! [04:17]
pete_dushenski just send alf your mailing address already ? [04:17]
ben_vulpes "software never fails" but the flesh apparently is very fucking weak. [04:18]
ben_vulpes > marking TSC unstable due to TSC halts in idle [04:18]
ben_vulpes shoulda listened to trinque. [04:20]
ben_vulpes AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA [04:20]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383609 << in my own aforementioned article. thankfully, archive.is has a pretty healthy stock of tlp. (not that i found any other broken links there lately) [04:21]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 02:35:25; adlai: pete_dushenski: more helpful to say where you encountered the deadlink :) [04:21]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: you can't not pee on ~all~ the fences. [04:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62450 @ 0.00056568 = 35.3267 BTC [+] {3} [04:25]
* ben_vulpes dd's the 10.6 installer onto the flash drive one last time [04:30]
pete_dushenski it's wild how much more organised 10.6 is than 10.8. the latter ~always~ bunged up dates. when trying to organise a folder by "date modified", the latest documents would almost invariably end up in their own speshul sub-heading waaay at the bottom of the list under "no date". but then once in a while, not. for whatever reason. [04:38]
pete_dushenski i don't think anything drove me more nutso when using 10.8 than the inability to find a file in a folder you ~just~ placed it in moments earlier. [04:39]
ben_vulpes and el cap is second system shitgnomery incarnate [04:41]
* assbot gives voice to guruvan [04:41]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383805 << i saw 2+ gb just from a couple of failed trb build attempts. it was like 2.7 gigs iirc. "bitcoin is not for the poor (who can't afford hd space)" (tm) (r) [04:42]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:03; mircea_popescu: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.cpp#0771 << this doesn't actually work, i've seen gb+ debug.logs [04:42]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: that's a thoroughly frightening prospect. [04:43]
ben_vulpes no you know what i have one more fence to piss upon [04:44]
ben_vulpes UBUNTU [04:44]
ben_vulpes that is how desperate i am to get off of os x. [04:44]
guruvan ben_vulpes: just get you a boot2docker, and then run whatever the hell you want - use the OSX like a hypervisor :D [04:45]
pete_dushenski the old osen come with their own limitations, however, like not being able to render random websites, eg. http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/14/they-dont-print-paper-catalogues-anymore-everythings-on-their-website/ (oakley's - which i only ever managed to use on... ios8 ipad) [04:45]
assbot “They don’t print paper catalogues anymore, everything’s on their website.” | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxosOd ) [04:45]
ben_vulpes guruvan: i am not running my primary os in a container, thank you very much. [04:46]
guruvan :) [04:46]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: i tried 14 for a few days. couldn't believe how laggy it was. haven't tried 10 (or whatever the b-a approved one was) [04:46]
ben_vulpes ftr i /have done this/ [04:46]
ben_vulpes edited code in emacs, booted container for reference implementation builds [04:47]
ben_vulpes shat elfs onto server for testing [04:47]
ben_vulpes openbsd at least installed, booted trivially, and ran emacs under x11. [04:48]
ben_vulpes but reference implementation? no, get fucked it said. [04:48]
ben_vulpes it is weekends like this that make me reconsider how i spent my youth as a misspend, when i see trinque and asciilifeform with usable professional non apple toolchains [04:49]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383894 << spiffy [04:49]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:58:32; asciilifeform: http://eli.thegreenplace.net/2011/09/06/stack-frame-layout-on-x86-64 << better picture [04:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26000 @ 0.00056116 = 14.5902 BTC [-] {4} [04:49]
ben_vulpes shit, i even reconsider the /past three years/ of toolchain investment on weekends like this. [04:50]
ben_vulpes pick a side i said. [04:50]
phf openbsd patch as written results in a working build on both linux and openbsd. it introduces necessary ifdefs to ensure cross platform support. the only change that it does to makefile is, at least according to my research, is necessary with some versions of gcc, rather then openbsd specific (has to do with static linking of pthread). without that change build ~can~ produce broken static bitcoind on both openbsd and linux. at the time [04:54]
phf when it was written and submitted it applied cleanly to the tree. to my knowledge it doesn't interfere with stator build. in fact the whole point of patch is to make minimally intrusive changes to source so that interested parties don't have to track down silly issues when attempting a build on their own. it's my understanding that the patch was simply dropped during v-ification, so of course now it doesn't in any way fits into [04:54]
phf pressing. [04:54]
ben_vulpes phf: i have a hunch that it was my boost compiles that were failing. [04:55]
pete_dushenski just noticed that crapple is pulling the same version naming strange as bitcoin 'core', ie. v. x.9 followed by x.10, x.11, x.12, etc. (is this the equiv. of web 2.12 ?) [04:55]
ben_vulpes still trying to get the hang of the m1a1, very much adrift in the cockpit of a warthog. [04:56]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: it's been an alternative scheme for as long as i can remember [04:56]
ben_vulpes x.6 ~ 10.6 [04:56]
mircea_popescu phf how can it be dropped i dont get this ? [04:56]
mircea_popescu in random good unix news : shuf -n 1 $file will pop out a random line from that file. [04:57]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: maybe it's just the coincidence that's being picked up on my gaydar then. [04:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112350 @ 0.00056689 = 63.6901 BTC [+] {5} [04:58]
pete_dushenski that being said, i've always thought that version numbers should "roll over" at a certain point. not like mac os8 went 43372 sub-versions before macos 9 showed up. eh. i guess it really doesn't matter. [04:59]
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* pete_dushenski back to reading about x86_64 [05:00]
phf mircea_popescu: well, openbsd and timestamp are written in old diff format, their migration was not done by foundation when majority of patches were moved to vdiff. i interpreted that move as the patches not being needed and an invitation to perform migration myself. [05:01]
mircea_popescu i think the migration was done by patch authors rly. [05:02]
deedbot- [Bingo Blog] The Theoretical Foundation of Social Engineering Practice - http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2016/01/24/the-theoretical-foundation-of-social-engineering-practice/ [05:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, do i get the impression you got the impression your patches aren't welcome or something ? [05:02]
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phf well, first v release was migrated by ascii, with all the patches signed by him, i think later mod6 signed his? [05:05]
mircea_popescu possibru [05:07]
BingoBoingo If asciilifeform reads and tests what he signs the openbsd patch would have been missed. Timestamp may have been overlooked. [05:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113350 @ 0.00055488 = 62.8956 BTC [-] {2} [05:12]
* BingoBoingo can finally read ben_vulpes on SSL [05:13]
phf one of the features of the openbsd patch is that it should build cleanly on linux, i.e. naive build or a stator build. i did a naive build that work, while i was developing, but since i assume it was not included in stator i can't speak to that. [05:16]
phf basically the patch being dropped created bunch of work for me, that i don't have bandwidth to pursue. (i.e. produce a v version, test on stator) [05:19]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: "The correct answer is that developed and practiced by people who take personal cryptographic hygenie very seriously" << hygiene [05:19]
phf otherwise the work needs to be done by other foundation members, and it comes with commitment to support openbsd build [05:20]
phf as it stands foundation doesn't support openbsd, and when someone wants to build on openbsd, i just support them directly [05:21]
mircea_popescu i guess that makes sense. [05:23]
BingoBoingo http://i.imgur.com/8jQls63.jpg [05:23]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1UjRQgo ) [05:23]
pete_dushenski i'm out. cheers ! [05:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44601 @ 0.00055644 = 24.8178 BTC [+] {2} [05:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40441 @ 0.00055814 = 22.5717 BTC [+] [05:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67358 @ 0.00055502 = 37.385 BTC [-] [05:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112195 @ 0.00055491 = 62.2581 BTC [-] {3} [05:58]
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phf mircea_popescu: ok, so i wouldn't say not welcome, but since neither patch was given a courtesy of a smooth transition, i assumed that neither are seen as particularly important. спасение утопающих дело рук самих утопающих (tm) (r) [06:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49100 @ 0.00055474 = 27.2377 BTC [-] {3} [06:10]
BingoBoingo "Maybe we aren't seeing heaven because one of us is a J-O-O" -Eric Cartman [06:11]
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* assbot gives voice to punkman [06:28]
punkman well that was a lot of log [06:28]
BingoBoingo Much log, lots of content [06:29]
mircea_popescu phf i think you're reading too much into it. [06:34]
mircea_popescu besides, nobody's drowning. [06:35]
punkman http://i.imgur.com/gZxnXJu.jpg [06:35]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1WGtsHf ) [06:35]
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punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 had a few threads http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-11-2015#1316722 [06:39]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:50; polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this? [06:39]
assbot Logged on 05-11-2015 02:44:58; trinque: ShrinkDebugFile() << lol, the autism in this thing [06:39]
punkman I suspect that using the plog library (after some win32-snipping) would remove more lines than it adds [06:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20689 @ 0.00055855 = 11.5558 BTC [+] {4} [06:40]
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punkman http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383855 << I haven't had any problems using custom datadirs [06:41]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:35:03; mircea_popescu: which is why nobody uses datadir, because wtf you do with munged 200kb logfiles. [06:41]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool [06:46]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 03:19:50; polarbeard: do we agree in using an external tool for this? [06:46]
ben_vulpes also lol what /we/ who are /you/? [06:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00055874 = 19.0251 BTC [+] [06:52]
BingoBoingo Ah, Rubio. Now BitBet's sole favorite for the Republican nomination. https://bitbet.us/bet/1205/marco-rubio-will-be-republicans-2016-presidential-nominee/ [06:57]
assbot BitBet - Marco Rubio will be Republicans' 2016 Presidential Nominee :: 0.54 B (54%) on Yes, 0.47 B (46%) on No | closing in 2 months 2 weeks | weight: 39`117 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1KJwMN1 ) [06:57]
BingoBoingo https://archive.is/x4JAc [07:02]
assbot Catfishing is real, and it can be hurtful. : fatpeoplestories ... ( http://bit.ly/1QsdDDy ) [07:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00055874 = 27.3224 BTC [+] [07:07]
ben_vulpes http://jezebel.com/britney-spears-good-at-math-1747547324 << i have examined this and found it lulzy [07:10]
assbot Britney Spears Good at Math ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qsea8y ) [07:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53005 @ 0.0005552 = 29.4284 BTC [-] {3} [07:16]
phf http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383561 << wtf? that is not at all the issue! [07:39]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 02:26:40; mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383446 << wait, explain this to me ? << the idea is that our makefiles, or whatever build scripts will utilize V to build inside of the rotor (a linux thing) - the source must be compatable with that. phf's openbsd scripts are not compatible with this. [07:39]
phf the ~only~ "script" aspect of the patch is "-Wl,--whole-archive -lpthread -Wl,--no-whole-archive" which is a cross platform gcc argument that ensure that pthread is truly fully statically linked into bitcoind. the issue that some parts of it don't appear consistently with openbsd gcc ~and also on some of the linux gcc versions~. fucking says so in the original email [07:44]
phf everything else in there is either cross platform clarification or straight up an #ifdef. it's a tiny ass patch, if it doesn't build on rotor, linux, etc. it's a bug in a patch [07:56]
ben_vulpes i only had the opportunity to test it recently, failed to even build prerequsites and so cannot sign it. i also do not intend to build another openbsd system in the immediate future. [07:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69297 @ 0.00055895 = 38.7336 BTC [+] {2} [08:00]
phf ben_vulpes: of course, that bsd patch doesn't stand in isolation. it was produced at a certain time, was since used by several people to build a version. but there's nothing to sign, because there's only pre-v patch [08:01]
ben_vulpes i do envy everyone the vast panoply of device families apparently covered. [08:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87971 @ 0.00056333 = 49.5567 BTC [+] {3} [08:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24658 @ 0.00056659 = 13.971 BTC [+] [08:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.0005632 = 14.8122 BTC [-] {2} [08:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00056659 = 23.8534 BTC [+] [08:46]
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punkman http://www.softpanorama.org/People/Stallman/history_of_gcc_development.shtml [09:44]
assbot The Short History of GCC development ... ( http://bit.ly/20meIQb ) [09:44]
punkman "Why are we doing this? It's become increasingly clear in the course of hacking events that the FSF's needs for gcc2 are at odds with the objectives of many in the community who have done lots of hacking and improvement over the years. GCC is part of the FSF's publicity for the GNU project, as well as being the GNU system's compiler, so stability is paramount for them. On the other hand, [09:46]
punkman Cygnus, the Linux folks, the pgcc folks, the Fortran folks and many others have done development work which has not yet gone into the GCC2 tree despite years of efforts to make it possible." [09:46]
punkman "As FSF GCC died a silent death from malnutrition, both were (formally) reunited as of version 2.95 in April 1999.  With a simple renaming trick, egcs became gcc now and formally the split was over" [09:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 159250 @ 0.00056167 = 89.4459 BTC [-] {4} [10:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47049 @ 0.00056368 = 26.5206 BTC [+] {3} [10:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78900 @ 0.00056534 = 44.6053 BTC [+] [10:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56101 @ 0.00056534 = 31.7161 BTC [+] [10:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84980 @ 0.00056251 = 47.8021 BTC [-] {3} [10:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75629 @ 0.00055647 = 42.0853 BTC [-] {2} [10:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108631 @ 0.00055647 = 60.4499 BTC [-] [10:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17820 @ 0.00055698 = 9.9254 BTC [+] [10:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40435 @ 0.00055647 = 22.5009 BTC [-] {2} [10:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00055647 = 9.0148 BTC [-] [10:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68900 @ 0.00056607 = 39.0022 BTC [+] {2} [11:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50500 @ 0.00056629 = 28.5976 BTC [+] {4} [11:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66000 @ 0.00056518 = 37.3019 BTC [-] {2} [11:39]
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mircea_popescu phf i dunno man, i've been trying to unravel in my head what the issue is/was, can't say i've got very far. the only thing i can say is please, insist. [11:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78800 @ 0.00056519 = 44.537 BTC [+] [11:42]
mircea_popescu "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people. [11:42]
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adlai educational holes; haven't read Анна Каренина, perhaps [11:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120250 @ 0.00055647 = 66.9155 BTC [-] [11:53]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: whaddyamean 0 [12:01]
mircea_popescu what do you see in there |? [12:02]
asciilifeform perhaps she had the face of a human, rather than ruminant, nfi [12:02]
mircea_popescu but the list of things he presents is enough to deduce they have nothing in common. [12:04]
mircea_popescu "we both say $word about heavily advertised meaningless franchise". hurr. [12:05]
mircea_popescu "she would never take a left on west 83rd at 6pm on a tuesday. i know this on the basis of her $word starwars." [12:06]
asciilifeform l0l [12:06]
mircea_popescu predictive value of a half eaten linseed. [12:06]
asciilifeform ah i finally parsed the thing correctly, when he wrote 'talked that night' it was probably not in the flesh [12:09]
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asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384135 << i have an openbsd box. but i haven't booted it in over a year, and can't bring myself to. because it is FUCKING LOATHESOME: [12:10]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 14:39:04; mircea_popescu: phf i dunno man, i've been trying to unravel in my head what the issue is/was, can't say i've got very far. the only thing i can say is please, insist. [12:10]
asciilifeform e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1365965 [12:10]
assbot Logged on 11-01-2016 03:34:08; asciilifeform: e.g., want x11 emacs ? say hello to dbus [12:10]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=14-09-2015#1273965 [12:10]
assbot Logged on 14-09-2015 17:42:55; ascii_field: and until it builds x11 emacs without dbus and related idiocy, openbsd is WORTHLESS to me. [12:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform so you don't like it. what of it? [12:11]
asciilifeform so i won't maintain for it. [12:11]
asciilifeform i tried... [12:11]
mircea_popescu well yes but we're discussing him [12:11]
asciilifeform if he wants to maintain a parallel universe, and it doesn't in any serious way inconvenience the actual universe, i will say only kind things. [12:12]
asciilifeform thing is, at least the way i understood it, the whole ~point~ of openbsd was as a fortress against poetteringization. and it appears to be in ruins, based on above [12:13]
asciilifeform i can haz emacs without dbus ~here~ [12:13]
asciilifeform even on the most heathen linux [12:14]
asciilifeform and recall the incident with theo and his 'friends' [12:14]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, these must be decisions people take for themselves. [12:15]
asciilifeform in principle, i like the lightweight, pedigreed, and 'hackable on' bsd family, e.g., netbsd. but imho openbsd is something that probably needs to be helped die [12:15]
asciilifeform but this is just my own judgement. [12:15]
asciilifeform did anybody ever try to get theo to appear here ? [12:17]
asciilifeform i'd much like to hear what the man has to say for himself. [12:17]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384102 << so REAL maths folks eschew line breaks!!11 who knew?! [12:19]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 10:08:30; ben_vulpes: http://jezebel.com/britney-spears-good-at-math-1747547324 << i have examined this and found it lulzy [12:19]
PeterL http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383435 << maybe "god" is just anthropomorphic personification of "universe" [12:19]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 00:05:24; danielpbarron: >> me: the universe does not guarantee a solution to things that humans perceive as problems. << personification of 'universe' to replace God [12:19]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384035 << this is lulzy in re: how i recently had to set up a complete orchestra on an apple box [12:21]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 07:46:51; ben_vulpes: it is weekends like this that make me reconsider how i spent my youth as a misspend, when i see trinque and asciilifeform with usable professional non apple toolchains [12:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i personally don't. there's a common disease of whores (and no, programmers aren't fundamentally anything else). it manifests like so : should a wolf find a delicious morsel, it will neglect it oft to the point of just letting it sit while it draws a perimeter around and inspects for whence it came for and MOAR. meanwhile, a mouse that found a morsel will grab it and run, never to return. [12:22]
asciilifeform originally i thought that it would have to be a gentoo vm, but turns out that one can actually build a genuine toolchain there ! and it runs... [12:22]
mircea_popescu i see it lots with online hos, you'd think that if you got easy money once, you'd never leave that place. but not so if you KNOW you're not worth anyone's time, deep down. [12:22]
mircea_popescu and so... i'm not particularly curious. [12:22]
asciilifeform i thought the stereotypical whoredom is to go, at the drop of a hat, to where it smells of moar money ?! [12:23]
asciilifeform and of programmer-whoring especially? [12:24]
mircea_popescu nope. that's baseless slander. [12:24]
mircea_popescu that is the queenly behaviour. [12:24]
mircea_popescu ie, "i say whore because she won't fuck me" vs "i say whore because whatevs" [12:24]
asciilifeform queenly ? [12:25]
mircea_popescu yeah. the requisite behaviour of the wife of the king. [12:25]
asciilifeform sorta like lioness ovulates as soon as the old cubs are recycled, aha [12:26]
asciilifeform this makes sense [12:26]
mircea_popescu hey, nobody said reality won't stink. [12:26]
mircea_popescu but generally, as an aspiring young lord, you don't have either the time or the resources to spend any time or resources with any women that would settle for anything but the best they can possibly get. [12:27]
polarbeard is this the beginning of shitty i18n?: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/util.h#0102 [12:28]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/util.h ... ( http://bit.ly/23lN5ZT ) [12:28]
mircea_popescu which is why "well breed" old guard products don't usually carry much value with the treason that just prospered. [12:28]
polarbeard should we kill it? grep " _(" bitcoin/src/* | wc -l -> 58 [12:29]
mircea_popescu polarbeard "I'd get it one piece at a time. And it wouldn't cost me a dime..." [12:30]
polarbeard seems reasonable [12:31]
mircea_popescu http://warontherocks.com/2016/01/killing-anwar-targeting-jihadi-propagandists-is-only-part-of-the-solution/ << in other lulzy lulz, from the "lalala i can't hear you" files. [12:43]
assbot Killing Anwar: Targeting Jihadi Propagandists is Only Part of the Solution ... ( http://bit.ly/1nhlHLA ) [12:43]
mircea_popescu "Killing and Communicating to Victory [12:44]
mircea_popescu Killing Awlaki unfortunately did not prevent his propaganda from influencing the minds of people who killed innocent people after he was gone. " [12:44]
mircea_popescu meanwhile back at home, http://www.blackagendareport.com/black_community_control_police [12:45]
assbot Freedom Rider: Black Community Control of the Police and the Politicians | Black Agenda Report ... ( http://bit.ly/1nhlU1r ) [12:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63700 @ 0.00055804 = 35.5471 BTC [+] [12:59]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00055804 = 7.5056 BTC [+] [13:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75600 @ 0.00055895 = 42.2566 BTC [+] {2} [13:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59358 @ 0.00055709 = 33.0677 BTC [-] {3} [14:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28083 @ 0.00055537 = 15.5965 BTC [-] [14:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99550 @ 0.00056059 = 55.8067 BTC [+] {4} [14:29]
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punkman https://blockchain.info/en/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=true&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address= [14:43]
assbot Bitcoin Hash Rate ... ( http://bit.ly/1nHHjRP ) [14:43]
punkman 1 exahash [14:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29465 @ 0.00055537 = 16.364 BTC [-] {2} [14:44]
punkman ;;nethash [14:45]
gribble 930625625.639 [14:45]
punkman gribble's nethash reads from this http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-3D.txt , in case anyone wants to run a script [14:47]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1nHHUmA ) [14:48]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46440 @ 0.00055523 = 25.7849 BTC [-] {2} [14:51]
jurov !gettrust assbot sipa [14:51]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user sipa: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=sipa | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/sipa/ [14:51]
punkman 3D means 3day estimate so it hasn't hit yet http://bitcoin.sipa.be/speed-lin-2k.png [14:52]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1UkAsZ0 ) [14:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2060 @ 0.00055476 = 1.1428 BTC [-] [14:52]
punkman next stop, 1 zettahash :D [14:56]
punkman ;;interval [14:58]
gribble 536.6459627329193 [14:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16178 @ 0.00055476 = 8.9749 BTC [-] {2} [15:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 145308 @ 0.00055393 = 80.4905 BTC [-] {2} [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80014 @ 0.00056208 = 44.9743 BTC [+] {2} [15:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62145 @ 0.00056235 = 34.9472 BTC [+] {2} [15:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67700 @ 0.00055377 = 37.4902 BTC [-] {3} [15:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00056381 = 27.2884 BTC [+] {3} [15:48]
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ben_vulpes did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? [15:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67150 @ 0.00056483 = 37.9283 BTC [+] {2} [15:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71065 @ 0.00055375 = 39.3522 BTC [-] {2} [16:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36246 @ 0.00055369 = 20.069 BTC [-] [16:04]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384173 << do you mean 'the full orchestra' as advertised on trb ml? [16:05]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 15:19:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384035 << this is lulzy in re: how i recently had to set up a complete orchestra on an apple box [16:05]
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mircea_popescu did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? << there's room for one. [16:32]
ben_vulpes I personally don't understand the reasons beyond "it's the right thing to do with the reference implementation, dummy. also, fuck drepper." [16:34]
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mircea_popescu do you understand why your apple "computers" suck ? [16:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3381 @ 0.00056477 = 1.9095 BTC [+] [16:38]
ben_vulpes a glib answer'd be "because steve died", a more pragmatic one "because they don't compile the bitcoin reference implementation", but i don't think either of those are what you're thinking. [16:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68374 @ 0.00056108 = 38.3633 BTC [-] {2} [16:40]
mircea_popescu mkay, let's take something else. why does buying a russian bride online suck ? [16:40]
kakobrekla high fees [16:43]
mircea_popescu what's "high" even mean yet. [16:43]
ben_vulpes no returns, no way to know if she's even minimally acceptable to spend time with, no way to know if she can suck cock... [16:43]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes but none of these are the core of the matter. suppose you buy one, and i give you another. [16:44]
punkman ben_vulpes: static because for one, hoping user has the right openssl/bdb/etc shared lib version results in forks [16:44]
mircea_popescu how would you know you got a DIFFERENT one ? [16:44]
ben_vulpes laptop or bride, they'd be...separate physical instantiations of 'bride' or 'nut-frier'? [16:45]
* ben_vulpes is having a 'not enough lsd' moment [16:45]
mircea_popescu but think about it. suppose i loan you one of my slavegirls, and you bring her back, except you bring me back a different woman. [16:46]
mircea_popescu how would my complaint sound ? [16:46]
ben_vulpes ah [16:46]
ben_vulpes bitwise identity [16:46]
mircea_popescu "i know this isn't X, because Y". [16:46]
mircea_popescu whereas you have nfi how "a bride" should go. fuck you know. [16:46]
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mircea_popescu for all you know, this is how it was supposed to be all along. [16:46]
mircea_popescu how are you going to have strong relationships with poorly defined entities ? [16:47]
ben_vulpes well no, but i believe that i understand your point. [16:47]
ben_vulpes usg has a plenty strong relationship with me, lol [16:48]
mircea_popescu quite. [16:48]
mircea_popescu marginally speaking, if i take random user's ipad and replace it with another ipad, random user'd never know. [16:49]
mircea_popescu now do the same to alf. [16:49]
ben_vulpes 'aha' [16:50]
mircea_popescu is this MY windows or HIS windows ? (is that my emacs or his emacs ?) [16:50]
mircea_popescu and the problem now dawns : nobody gives a shit's ass what you do to your emacs [16:50]
mircea_popescu but bitcoin has to stay fixed! protocol! distributed! [16:50]
mircea_popescu "i dunno, man, that's just what my bitcoin does" "it shouoldn't do that" "how do you know ?" "because..." [16:51]
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BingoBoingo "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people. << It's like the redditor version of my foray into fiction [16:57]
jurov From: Gypsy Subject: Programmer at $399/ Week ...orly? [16:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84500 @ 0.00055622 = 47.0006 BTC [-] {3} [16:58]
jurov Best Regards, Gypsy | Offshoring Coordinator [17:00]
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ben_vulpes what a deal, jurov! [17:01]
jurov i'll gladly forward. cascadia surely needs some gypsies to improve diversity [17:02]
BingoBoingo They also naturally live in camps and so blend in with local bipedal fauna [17:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47450 @ 0.00055399 = 26.2868 BTC [-] [17:16]
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oglafbot http://oglaf.com/wax-loquacious/ [17:18]
assbot Wax loquacious ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvV7Fg ) [17:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120150 @ 0.00055302 = 66.4454 BTC [-] {3} [17:35]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31909 @ 0.00055399 = 17.6773 BTC [+] [17:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58400 @ 0.00055279 = 32.2829 BTC [-] {2} [17:40]
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polarbeard somebody against displaying full hashes in the log instead of substrings? [17:49]
mircea_popescu !up yrashk [17:52]
-assbot- You voiced yrashk for 30 minutes. [17:52]
* assbot gives voice to yrashk [17:52]
mircea_popescu polarbeard on the contrary. please fix the substring idiocy. [17:54]
mircea_popescu whoever the fuck does stupid shit like "substring hashes" fundamentally misunderstands what cryptography is all about [17:55]
mircea_popescu much like someone delivering CPU shavings fundamentally misunderstands electronics. [17:55]
polarbeard is a symptom of basically being 'too clever' [17:56]
polarbeard 'but but it won't collide!' [17:56]
punkman this doesn't matter in log in most cases [17:57]
punkman but can be a hassle [17:57]
punkman it also means bigger logs overall [17:57]
polarbeard its okay, they actually implemented rotat... well [17:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63917 @ 0.00055726 = 35.6184 BTC [+] {2} [17:58]
polarbeard saving bytes from hashes to spend them in "oops!" all around [17:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32284 @ 0.00056476 = 18.2327 BTC [+] {2} [18:03]
punkman myeah, and if you need to archive a lot of logs, can always convert to denser binary format [18:04]
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polarbeard yeah, for now I'm just adding timestamps, classification prefixes and fixing messages, without adding extra logging points [18:06]
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BingoBoingo Reddit does Australia https://archive.is/HtuJr [18:21]
assbot TIFU by feeding a goanna : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1QtgxrI ) [18:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80550 @ 0.00055626 = 44.8067 BTC [-] {3} [18:23]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384235 << unrelated item, but same toolchain [18:30]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 19:02:54; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384173 << do you mean 'the full orchestra' as advertised on trb ml? [18:30]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384237 << what is the nonobvious thing re: static compilation ? [18:30]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 19:29:50; mircea_popescu: did anyone ever do a static compilation libkez? << there's room for one. [18:30]
asciilifeform study the linux loader to see what 'dynamic' means. static is simply... not doing this [18:31]
danielpbarron https://twitter.com/fredericjacobs/status/691357634704723969 >> OPERATION: KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM [18:31]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384239 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384263 << this argument is every bit as applicable to everybody's, including mircea_popescu's, cpu... [18:32]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 19:32:48; mircea_popescu: do you understand why your apple "computers" suck ? [18:32]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 19:46:52; mircea_popescu: marginally speaking, if i take random user's ipad and replace it with another ipad, random user'd never know. [18:32]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: censored [18:32]
danielpbarron >> Holy crap, opening from latest official (Al-Hayat) ISIS video is the decryption of a PGP message. [18:33]
danielpbarron is the tweet deleted? i took screenshots of the pgpgram [18:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00056222 = 46.3832 BTC [+] [18:36]
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danielpbarron !up LquidNinjaAssets [18:48]
* assbot gives voice to LquidNinjaAssets [18:48]
danielpbarron who're you? [18:48]
mircea_popescu this doesn't matter in log in most cases << for one thing, alf was considering using the log for dumping and working with mempool. [18:49]
LquidNinjaAssets It doesn't really matter, I was just looking for some #b-a advice on who to use as a hosting service if I wanted to start a no frills blog... [18:49]
LquidNinjaAssets something either Pete, or Alf uses [18:49]
danielpbarron my advice is get in the WoT and ask again [18:50]
LquidNinjaAssets I am in the wot [18:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform likbez is ipso definitio "list of obvious, except not obvious to you" [18:50]
LquidNinjaAssets just at work right now [18:50]
danielpbarron i was gonna ask BingoBoingo what he uses; i'm tryin to get a blog up as well [18:52]
mircea_popescu is the tweet deleted? i took screenshots of the pgpgram << it would be. pgp BURNSSSS teh usterrorists. [18:53]
danielpbarron hosting i can do myself, but the wordpress i found kinda sucks [18:53]
mircea_popescu if you feel like making a qntra out of it all.. [18:53]
mircea_popescu just a simple "isis finally moving to pgp, like b-a/alf/mp said they should. usg petrified about actual, strong cryptography - as opposed to the ecc and assorted shit they peddle - being deployed by those opposing its reign of terror" [18:54]
danielpbarron i'll look into it when i get back to real computer; i'm at a sushi bar atm [18:55]
LquidNinjaAssets yes plus all the security holes MP found on there...just something super basic that could be recommended by my wot would be great, thank you [18:55]
punkman LquidNinjaAssets: you can see who's hosting where via whois [18:55]
mircea_popescu fancy that coincidence, i just had a pile of sushi myself. [18:55]
LquidNinjaAssets thanks punkman [18:55]
asciilifeform l0l are them pigs flyin' [18:55]
punkman contravex looks like godaddy :/ [18:55]
asciilifeform and censored just as soon. [18:55]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: Darwin isn't a complete piece of shit eh? So Apple > Winblows or is this like comparing two bowls of shit and asking which one is less nutty. [19:05]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: it is a complete piece of shit [19:05]
BingoBoingo I use dreamhost for thedrinkingrecord. It's cost controlled and don't get surprise bills when DDoS [19:06]
asciilifeform and the effort required to set it up for any kind of serious work vastly exceeds the effort used to set up a gentoo box [19:06]
thestringpuller interesting to see all the love for Gentoo [19:06]
BingoBoingo But really choosing a web host is a serious optimization problem. [19:06]
asciilifeform but you can work on it, yes. just as you could probably solder a keyboard to a nintendo and work on that. [19:06]
BingoBoingo What works for thedrinkingrecord would be unacceptably for Qntra [19:07]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: people did that, it was called a commodore64 [19:07]
thestringpuller BingoBoingo: because qntra has giant "DDOS me" sign on it's back as it walks to halls? [19:07]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: i can work on an apple box, with a good bit of sweat. i cannot work on a winblowz box. [19:08]
asciilifeform it is entirely impossible without installing something like vmware [19:08]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: Because Qntra needs the potential to host wider varieties of content objectionable to shitgnomes [19:09]
thestringpuller Working on a winblowz box is the worst experience ever. I did so for 1.5 years writing JBoss web applets. Everyone thought "Oh you can run the dev environment in windows, well you're crazy. THIS IS HOW THE WORLD WORKS" to which I would revolt saying, "Your development process is insane which is why you spent 2.5 mil bringing in AGILE consultants to reduce your bottom line, which didn't fix any of the real problems." [19:10]
thestringpuller Eventually all the devs were given macs, (Oh boy upgrade from diahrea to solid feces). [19:10]
asciilifeform just imagine a box where you can't pop a shell & grep [19:11]
thestringpuller The only people who got anything done around there was DevOps who had a strict (Run linux) [19:11]
asciilifeform i would much rather trade the computer for a pencil. [19:11]
asciilifeform the funny part is that i have written REAMS of code for winblowz. [19:12]
asciilifeform just not ON it. [19:12]
asciilifeform and didn't ~build~ it there either. [19:12]
thestringpuller you cross compiled it? [19:12]
asciilifeform (you can cross-compile trivially, and gcc gives 10x the compactness of vs crud. just treat the box as a kind of nintendo.) [19:12]
polarbeard that's... interracial [19:13]
thestringpuller aha. does this require posix compliance add-ons in the Windows box? [19:13]
asciilifeform NONE [19:13]
asciilifeform naked winblowz box, straight from the crate. [19:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00056222 = 13.3527 BTC [+] [19:13]
asciilifeform no 'runtimes' or other dependency crud needed. [19:14]
thestringpuller aha so straight to win32 [19:14]
asciilifeform old-fashioned gcc. [19:14]
asciilifeform wrote drivers, even [19:14]
asciilifeform (which microshit OFFICIALLY proclaims to only be possible using their turdchain) [19:14]
asciilifeform think of it this way, anything you could do in asm (and that's everything, period) you can do with gcc. [19:14]
polarbeard but did you sign® them? [19:15]
asciilifeform did. [19:15]
asciilifeform you don't need vs for this, either. [19:15]
asciilifeform but who the everliving fuck cares. [19:15]
asciilifeform it boggles my mind that anybody ever uses vs for anything at all. [19:15]
thestringpuller cuz IDE make lyfe ez [19:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107200 @ 0.00056323 = 60.3783 BTC [+] {3} [19:16]
polarbeard ide tells you what to do, calls you bitch if you don't [19:17]
BingoBoingo VS has marketing, looks good to managers [19:17]
thestringpuller that's like middle school shit. "Sally thinks you're a bitch" [19:18]
polarbeard clippy secretly plots your murder, using gentle 'suggestions' [19:18]
asciilifeform i will develop ~for~ nintendo, if the money is right. but no amount of money is pay enough for developing ON a nintendo. [19:18]
* assbot removes voice from LquidNinjaAssets [19:18]
BingoBoingo !up LquidNinjaAssets [19:19]
* assbot gives voice to LquidNinjaAssets [19:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53100 @ 0.00056222 = 29.8539 BTC [-] {2} [19:20]
jurov nice, can someone compile crystalspace/eulora with mingw? [19:22]
mircea_popescu just imagine a box where you can't pop a shell & grep << iirc they eventually got a grep in windows too [19:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'powershell' ? [19:22]
asciilifeform still not an actual shell. [19:22]
polarbeard git for windows installs bash, lol [19:23]
mircea_popescu i dun recall what it was [19:23]
asciilifeform polarbeard: you can even, e.g., cygwin, and build x11, and actual gcc, and bash, etc. [19:23]
polarbeard and tells you to shut up and accept the dick [19:23]
asciilifeform but at that point why not use an actual os [19:23]
asciilifeform jurov: somebody easily could [19:23]
asciilifeform i was even under the impression that the eulora build process was microshit-free [19:25]
asciilifeform was wrong about this ? [19:25]
jurov yep, wrong [19:25]
asciilifeform (i am about as far from the project as could be imagined) [19:25]
* BingoBoingo wonders if name is supposed to be read polarbearD or polar beard [19:26]
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asciilifeform !up gitzain [19:27]
* assbot gives voice to gitzain [19:27]
jurov i know about cygwin, but never tried to apply [19:27]
* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [19:27]
asciilifeform jurov: you specifically would not want to build something ~for~ cygwin [19:27]
mod6 polarbeard: I apprecate your offer to work on the Reference Implementation, but before you get too far along you need to reconcile that -1 from ben. [19:27]
asciilifeform this introduces dependency crud [19:27]
jurov rather, heard horror storied about mingw [19:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97000 @ 0.00056588 = 54.8904 BTC [+] {5} [19:28]
asciilifeform jurov: i worked with mingw for some years. [19:28]
diana_coman jurov> nice, can someone compile crystalspace/eulora with mingw? <- I tried that in some days of madness; it didn't end well [19:28]
polarbeard mod6: no problem, I'm open to suggestions [19:28]
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asciilifeform !gettrust polarbeard [19:29]
assbot Trust relationship from user asciilifeform to user polarbeard: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=asciilifeform&to=polarbeard | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/polarbeard/ [19:29]
mod6 I think you need to ack your previous identity and make ammends. Thats the first step. [19:29]
asciilifeform mod6: is this in the log ? [19:29]
polarbeard asciilifeform: I nuked my previous identity, for science [19:29]
asciilifeform oh for fucks sake [19:29]
asciilifeform let's have it [19:30]
asciilifeform !s from:ben_vulpes !rate [19:30]
assbot 102 results for 'from:ben_vulpes !rate' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aben_vulpes+%21rate [19:30]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374179 << ? [19:30]
mod6 http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/punindented/ [19:30]
assbot Logged on 17-01-2016 05:07:56; ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here [19:30]
assbot punindented WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeCWYY ) [19:30]
polarbeard asciilifeform: punindented, nodejs, mawk user [19:30]
asciilifeform ;;later tell ben_vulpes what's the story re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374179 ? [19:31]
assbot Logged on 17-01-2016 05:07:56; ben_vulpes: !rate punindented -1 unwelcome here [19:31]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:31]
polarbeard and dotfile killah [19:31]
* yrashk has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [19:32]
mircea_popescu i was even under the impression that the eulora build process was microshit-free << how are you going to make a windows binary "microshit-free" ? [19:32]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see thread [19:32]
mircea_popescu polarbeard: I apprecate your offer to work on the Reference Implementation, but before you get too far along you need to reconcile that -1 from ben. << the what now ?! [19:32]
asciilifeform also see thread [19:32]
mircea_popescu i have seen both threads, not much changed. [19:33]
mod6 polarbeard is punindented, i very much appreciate his offer of help to work on the R.I. but this is a non-starter until ben and polarbeard/punindented reconcile their differences. [19:34]
polarbeard but I have nothing against him? [19:34]
thestringpuller is it safe to transplant the blockchain between hard drives once it's completed? [19:34]
thestringpuller or is it like the fdisk thing where you should --verify-all on restart even if blockchain is downloaded? [19:34]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: so long as they have same endian [19:35]
mod6 polarbeard: perhaps not. but wot & signing patches is based on trust. you must have a positive rating from members for patches to be accepted. [19:35]
thestringpuller this wouldn't change on same machine no? (like pulling blockchain off one drive then putting on another drive, but inside same machine) [19:35]
mod6 so lets get this resolved and perhaps we can move forward. [19:35]
polarbeard ok, I'll earn that with time, I won't submit until I have positive rating [19:35]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: Your best bet is likely starting a blog and putting things you might eventually submit there [19:36]
BingoBoingo Shows your growth over time or lack thereof [19:36]
mircea_popescu http://misionesonline.net/2016/01/24/obera-un-policia-atropello-a-un-motociclista-lo-mato-y-luego-se-suicido/ [19:37]
polarbeard I code, I don't write articles [19:37]
assbot Oberá: un policía se suicidó luego de un accidente que le costó la vida a un motociclista - MisionesOnline ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDb6f ) [19:37]
mircea_popescu "y se pegó un tiro con su pistola reglamentaria." [19:37]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: Nothing wrong with blogging code [19:37]
BingoBoingo or blogging comments to code [19:37]
polarbeard ok, I have a blog on https://gist.github.com/polarbeard [19:37]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0l!! [19:37]
assbot polarbeard’s gists · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDdLk ) [19:37]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: But you don't own that url in even the pretend sense of having a domain name [19:38]
thestringpuller BingoBoingo: is the categories page you used built into the theme or did that have to be created? [19:38]
polarbeard do I need a domain name to contribute code? [19:38]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: needed created [19:38]
trinque polarbeard: just go talk to ben_vulpes and work out whatever happened there. [19:38]
polarbeard BingoBoingo knows what happened, I sent him a log [19:39]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: no, but it makes the blog part work more smoothly given how github leiks da censorship [19:39]
polarbeard please share it BingoBoingo, if you still have it around [19:39]
BingoBoingo trinque: He filpped ben_vulpes paranoia breaker it would take some time for it to reset. [19:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my point re: the mingw thread was that it is entirely possible to write a proggy, for whatever broken & braindamaged box, without inserting ANY bytes that i did not personally decide to insert. [19:39]
asciilifeform (i.e. without linking to vendor libs) [19:40]
mircea_popescu mod6 there's two (very general) problems here. one is that well, identification's always iffy. how do you go "x=y" when it comes to ids ? the other is that well, with or without wot trust, the guy can still write patches etc. not like anyone can prevent it. not to say that it shouldn't be resolved by any means. [19:40]
asciilifeform (it will make os api calls, yes, supposing that we want i/o at all. but this is not same thing) [19:40]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: Did rotor eat your copy too? [19:40]
polarbeard I didn't save it [19:40]
asciilifeform anybody at all can write patches. just like anyone could write a speech for obamitler to read. now to have him actually read it - is a different matter [19:41]
mircea_popescu quite exactly. [19:41]
mod6 mircea_popescu: he was talking to me in pm when he decided not to reconcile with ben and created a new ident. i can't sign stuff from a guy who i know that my co-chair has neg-rated. [19:41]
mircea_popescu i cansee that. [19:41]
mircea_popescu what was it anyway ? [19:41]
* mircea_popescu points out that all this private talk just makeswork down the line. [19:42]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: dpaste ate it. [19:42]
asciilifeform aha [19:42]
mod6 the dispute? i dunno. his ident was 'punindented [19:42]
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asciilifeform anything you say in 'private' about trb will generally end up having to be repeated at least once. [19:42]
polarbeard that's okay, I won't submit anything if you don't want / have the time to read [19:42]
mod6 i asked him to resolve this, but this has gone too far now. [19:42]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and then the differences evaluated and it's just not fucking worth it. [19:43]
asciilifeform ^ [19:43]
BingoBoingo But there is http://dpaste.com/3DJ855N.txt [19:43]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeDr5b ) [19:43]
asciilifeform this is why i almost never 'pm' at all these days [19:43]
asciilifeform launch codes go over pgp, everything else can be here. [19:43]
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polarbeard mod6: I created a new ident because I nuked my keys, but I understand your position, you could have told me I'm not welcomed as well, instead of talking to me [19:44]
mod6 ah, thats right. forgot you blew away your keys. but still, i gvae you ample time to resolve this with ben. [19:45]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: The solution is not simply new name. It is building a history and working towards the comprehensive exam. [19:45]
mircea_popescu now we're all stuck sitting around looking at a high strung dramatique discussion with a missing antecedent. [19:45]
polarbeard I don't know how to resolve the fact that he doesn't like people build stuff for nodejs [19:45]
mircea_popescu this is loathsome. [19:46]
BingoBoingo !s comprehensive exam [19:46]
assbot 4 results for 'comprehensive exam' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=comprehensive+exam [19:46]
BingoBoingo this is loathsome. << This [19:46]
asciilifeform there is a more serious problem [19:46]
asciilifeform polarbeard tells us that he nuked his keys [19:46]
mircea_popescu so ? [19:46]
asciilifeform and was formerly mr. somebodyelse [19:46]
asciilifeform on what authority is this to be taken ? [19:46]
BingoBoingo ^ [19:47]
polarbeard formerly I was nobody, I'm still nobody [19:47]
polarbeard ben's was my first rate [19:47]
mircea_popescu well thatg's what i said. how do you know "x is y". you basicaLLY don't. [19:47]
asciilifeform aha. [19:47]
mircea_popescu only way this works is if x says "i will be y". [19:47]
mircea_popescu y saying "i was x" is nonsense. [19:47]
asciilifeform maybe i was catherine the great, aha. [19:47]
asciilifeform or horse. [19:48]
mircea_popescu moreover, gpg is specificalloy intended to work as a PSEUDONYMOUS system. much like bitcoin addresses are. [19:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58293 @ 0.00056458 = 32.9111 BTC [-] {2} [19:48]
mircea_popescu there's nothing fundamentally wrong with being a dozen different oens. [19:48]
mircea_popescu whether you like the idea or not - jack shit you can do aobut it. [19:48]
mircea_popescu moreover, the corruptive influence of bitcoin over enemies works in gpg and v space too. [19:49]
mircea_popescu new identity has to put in effort to establish trust. if it wants to abuse it later... it does have to burn it. [19:49]
mircea_popescu keep things so it's never worth doing that, you don't care if it's hitler's own id. [19:49]
asciilifeform see also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-11-2015#1325347 [19:50]
assbot Logged on 16-11-2015 21:01:21; ascii_field: BingoBoingo: 'I didn't know that,' I said. 'No one knows everything,' he said. 'Did you know,' he said, 'that until almost this very moment nothing would have delighted me more than to prove that you were a spy, to see you shot?' 'No,' I said. 'And do you know why I don't care now if you were a spy or not?' he said. 'You could tell me now that you were a spy, and we would go on talking c [19:50]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-11-2015#1325348 [19:50]
assbot Logged on 16-11-2015 21:01:21; ascii_field: would let you wander off to wherever spies go when a war is over. You know why?' he said. 'No,' I said. 'Because you could never have served the enemy as well as you served us,' he said. 'I realized that almost all the ideas that I hold now, that make me unashamed of anything I may have felt or done as a Nazi, came not from Hitler, not from Goebbels, not from Himmler — but from you.' H [19:50]
* assbot removes voice from LquidNinjaAssets [19:50]
mircea_popescu quite. [19:50]
mircea_popescu and to bring back that very obscure thing on trilema about sybils etc : [19:50]
mircea_popescu the ONLY viable attack against the wot is getting people to act in systematic manners. [19:51]
mircea_popescu it is the direct equivalent of entropy-diddling for keysystems. [19:51]
mircea_popescu not only "there's nothing common about common sense" - but there's a very good reason for this. common sense is decentralized system poison. [19:52]
asciilifeform when i explain this to folks, i like to use the example of liquid nitrogen sausage [19:52]
asciilifeform hit ordinary sausage with a hammer, nothing, it gets a little flatter [19:53]
asciilifeform now freeze it solid, do the same... [19:53]
mircea_popescu yeah. vitrification kills. [19:53]
asciilifeform the ~structure~ kills. [19:54]
mircea_popescu destructure all teh things! [19:54]
mircea_popescu hey - this actuyally works. fundamentally, we're destructuralists. [19:54]
mircea_popescu comes after post-poststructuralism. [19:55]
asciilifeform now, a very hot sausage melts into goo, burns. an entirely destructured forum - timecubes. [19:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81700 @ 0.00056222 = 45.9334 BTC [-] {2} [19:55]
mircea_popescu there is no such thing as "entirely destructured". [19:55]
asciilifeform sure. [19:56]
asciilifeform but it is possible to ionize the sausage. [19:56]
asciilifeform and generally undesirable. [19:56]
mircea_popescu no but this is important. the measure is not 0-> but (undefined) -> [19:56]
mircea_popescu very different sort of algebra. [19:56]
* assbot removes voice from gitzain [19:57]
asciilifeform we actually don't have an algebra for entropy measures, other than shannon's [19:57]
mircea_popescu more generally, there's no algebra with a 1 but not a 0 in this sense afaik. [19:57]
asciilifeform riddle time: [19:58]
asciilifeform char *p = sc->strbuff; [19:58]
asciilifeform whilei && [19:58]
asciilifeform !is_one_of(delim, (*p++ = inchar(sc)))); [19:58]
asciilifeform from where ? [19:58]
mircea_popescu openssh [19:58]
asciilifeform tinyscheme [19:59]
thestringpuller L0L [19:59]
asciilifeform 'who does this?!' [19:59]
asciilifeform (tm) (r) [19:59]
mircea_popescu openssh! [19:59]
thestringpuller (c) [19:59]
jurov linus [20:00]
asciilifeform folks who produce 'gems' like this, are prime candidates for http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Iran-Finger-Amputation-ISNA-3.jpg [20:01]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PeE9zp ) [20:01]
mircea_popescu the sad truth is that this is a very specific sort of ideal. [20:02]
mircea_popescu like the bell bottoms, a fashion of the 70s [20:03]
asciilifeform how's that [20:03]
mircea_popescu i dunno how to explain it otherwise. [20:05]
asciilifeform which would be the 'ideal' [20:06]
asciilifeform wanton pointer arithmetic ? [20:06]
asciilifeform to save five lines but add an hour to the time of anybody trying to actually grasp the meaning ? [20:07]
jurov "idiomatic C" [20:08]
mircea_popescu that, yes. [20:09]
mircea_popescu sorta like crossword puzzles, same thing. a sort of cleverness. [20:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139750 @ 0.00056459 = 78.9015 BTC [+] [20:11]
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mircea_popescu !up srijan [20:25]
-assbot- You voiced srijan for 30 minutes. [20:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125750 @ 0.00056222 = 70.6992 BTC [-] [20:27]
asciilifeform http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2012/Jul/13 but interestingly the classical tinyscheme does not even have the original 0day [20:32]
assbot Full Disclosure: Re: ScriptFu Server Buffer Overflow in GIMP <= 2.6 ... ( http://bit.ly/1WI6jEr ) [20:32]
asciilifeform it was introduced in the... guess... [20:32]
asciilifeform utf8-ificated one. [20:33]
asciilifeform where else [20:33]
asciilifeform though the cited bit is still disgusting [20:33]
asciilifeform (it is from ver. 1.41) [20:34]
asciilifeform circa, iirc, 1999. [20:34]
asciilifeform (cited earlier in this thread, that is) [20:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52250 @ 0.00056432 = 29.4857 BTC [+] {3} [20:37]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384565 << i offer that such folks be given a chance to stop, asked nicely. after this, to be hit with a heavy blunt object. and then hit again, and again, until they are no longer a danger to others. [20:37]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 23:06:37; jurov: "idiomatic C" [20:37]
asciilifeform 'clever' aha. [20:37]
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jurov merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries" [20:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114650 @ 0.00056034 = 64.243 BTC [-] {2} [20:45]
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asciilifeform !up kefkius [20:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47215 @ 0.00056459 = 26.6571 BTC [+] [20:56]
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danielpbarron snowden twatter account says the isis pgp is fake [20:58]
asciilifeform where is the kennedy assassination dossier it promised. [20:58]
asciilifeform (speaking of folks with no pubkey!) [20:59]
ben_vulpes so i've only negrated this punindented identity [21:01]
ben_vulpes and given that the character's lost or whatevered those keys, i don't see any reason for a) that to change or b) influence how the wot regards polarbeard [21:02]
ben_vulpes and as specifically regards polarbeard, i am happy to review patches [21:03]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: let's say tomorrow some new fella shows up, new key, and admits that he is ninjashogun who lost his key... [21:03]
asciilifeform also makes no difference ? [21:03]
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asciilifeform or, [21:03]
asciilifeform 'admission against interest' ? [21:03]
ben_vulpes but register formal irritation re your inability or refusal to answer to inquiries such as http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384093 [21:04]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:19; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1383814 << if by external you mean: does not introduce further dependencies into the codebase, maybe, depending on the tool [21:04]
asciilifeform (i think in usa it is called 'declaration against interest' but ianal) [21:04]
ben_vulpes and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384095 [21:04]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 09:44:25; ben_vulpes: also lol what /we/ who are /you/? [21:04]
asciilifeform useful concept [21:04]
mircea_popescu merely tasking them to understand existing code is sufficient. "and no, you're not allowed to redo it nor pull libraries" << jurov has it. [21:05]
mircea_popescu also makes no difference ? <<< quite. [21:05]
mircea_popescu what difference would it make ? [21:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0005592 = 5.2006 BTC [-] {3} [21:06]
polarbeard ben_vulpes: sorry, I missed that one, I was talking about a tool like logrotate [21:07]
polarbeard which I think comes by default in all linux distros, idk about unixes though [21:08]
danielpbarron https://imgur.com/a/meH0a << here's my screenshots, completely raw and unedited [21:09]
assbot isis pgp - Album on Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1WIafoM ) [21:09]
polarbeard all I can say is that log rotation is daily business on most decent systems, but if anybody has a rational answer against it I would not remove shitty-ghost-rotation from trb [21:09]
ben_vulpes yes, i don't quite care about 'statements against interest' [21:10]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: that key id appears to be quite illegible [21:11]
danielpbarron yeah i can't figure it out either [21:11]
ben_vulpes someone can show up tomorrow and claim to be tiberius, tat, smickles, and until they sign with keys that prove it they're either joking or some other thing i don't understand [21:11]
punkman ben_vulpes: would ya read ninjashogun's patches? [21:11]
danielpbarron "snowden" says same [21:11]
ben_vulpes punkman: for lolz most definitely [21:11]
ben_vulpes and who knows what else of interest might be in 'em [21:12]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: and whose pgptron prints 'Decryption....' [21:12]
asciilifeform and wtf [21:12]
ben_vulpes what harm'd there be in the reading i ask [21:12]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: and why would message text be in english [21:12]
asciilifeform and, and. [21:12]
ben_vulpes so polarbeard burned his previous identity by getting uppity with me. what of it. [21:12]
asciilifeform and i won't even comment on the nonsensical contents. [21:12]
ben_vulpes it's not submitting patches any more, so i don't see the point of the discussion. [21:13]
danielpbarron yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..? [21:13]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: potentially. can mention all of these points. [21:14]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron possibly not. [21:14]
asciilifeform 'alleged martian corpse found. but appears to be that of a dog with pig ears glued on' [21:14]
ben_vulpes mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow? [21:14]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: how to operate your wot is between you and odin [21:14]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yeah, i think you nailed the matter, can be laid to rest. [21:15]
asciilifeform i certainly see the rationale here [21:15]
ben_vulpes provisions are in place for noobs to fuck up and recover. [21:15]
ben_vulpes you'll note i'm not handing out 1's just for showing up any more. [21:17]
ben_vulpes *and* [21:17]
mircea_popescu i'm still a slut. while that lasts. [21:17]
jurov ;;later tell mike_c just an idea - if the rating is public, you can link the logs [21:18]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:18]
asciilifeform ;;seen mike_c [21:18]
gribble mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 5 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already [21:18]
mircea_popescu i think it's really best practice to rate in chan. [21:19]
asciilifeform anybody know him in the meat? is the fella on a polar voyage or what [21:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform iirc shitty job + new kid. [21:19]
asciilifeform ah [21:19]
ben_vulpes (and once again polarbeard /who are you/?) [21:19]
* asciilifeform tries to picture harsher job than his own, it's gotta involve petro drilling platforms with no connectivity or sumthin' [21:20]
jurov breeding pigs in space [21:20]
asciilifeform i would also like to know ~who is~ polarbeard [21:20]
asciilifeform кто ты по жизни, polarbeard ? [21:21]
ben_vulpes (while it may appear to /you/ that the mega participants in this cult are disembodied names, /we/ all know each other -- names, geographic locations, general type of employ, but /you/ do not have this [or i'll point out] any pedigree here) [21:21]
jurov eh calm down [21:22]
jurov you think that deaf idiot at the conference was really me? [21:23]
asciilifeform l0l! [21:23]
ben_vulpes how could i know, jurov! i never saw a keyid from you. [21:23]
jurov :D [21:23]
ben_vulpes heh that is an interesting hole in the keysigning party i guess [21:24]
ben_vulpes what if the person showing up is not actually the keyholder [21:24]
asciilifeform first time i was to see mircea_popescu, i actually had no idea how he will pick me out of the crowd at the airport. but he did. [21:24]
ben_vulpes same way everyone else singles you out of the crowd lol [21:25]
asciilifeform everyone, l0l [21:25]
ben_vulpes i'd seen the photos from c2, 'twas how i knew you and mike_c [21:25]
* assbot removes voice from kefkius [21:26]
mod6 heh, there was such a crowd at the exit of the security area, me and Mr. P. walked right by eachother I think. [21:27]
mircea_popescu yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport. [21:27]
ben_vulpes planez! [21:27]
asciilifeform dirigiblez! [21:28]
ben_vulpes polarbeard: hey can you confirm for the log that you understand what's going on with your various idents? [21:28]
mod6 <+ben_vulpes> mod6, polarbeard, asciilifeform, mircea_popescu: y'all follow? << this is my 0.00000002: If you don't trust a man, no matter what his keyid is today, how can i ignore that and trust a new ident? The correct thing to do as a man, admit your mistake, and or ask for forgiveness and move on. Simple as that. We're all adults here. [21:29]
polarbeard yes, I understand, it wasn't my intention to change nick, I nuked my keys [21:29]
polarbeard I *loved* that nick [21:30]
mircea_popescu mod6 well basically, cause the concept of "a man" is pretty much the key. [21:30]
ben_vulpes ^^ [21:30]
mod6 And I understand that part too Mr. P. Typically, this is what seperates us from 'dog'. [21:30]
mircea_popescu now a dog you can't trust! [21:31]
ben_vulpes polarbeard: coulda kept the nick, but registered a new key and we'd be in the same spot. [21:31]
polarbeard and definitely not ready to tell more about my true and only self [21:31]
ben_vulpes freenode nicks are not crypto. [21:31]
polarbeard maybe one day, I don't kiss in the first date [21:31]
mircea_popescu lol [21:31]
mod6 For posterity: Do not do this. If you get a neg rating and you care about your wot ident, do be an adult and do as I said. Lot less problems and drama this way. [21:31]
polarbeard ben_vulpes: I asked somebody if assbot can be forced to forget the nick, it can't [21:31]
polarbeard or that somebody told me [21:32]
asciilifeform http://www.retrodirizhabl.ru/m04.jpg << mircea_popescu's dirigible [21:32]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4p1HD ) [21:32]
mod6 To me, this all felt like subversion. I didn [21:32]
ben_vulpes at orbital heights no less [21:32]
mod6 't like that. [21:32]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: and no smaller than mexico [21:32]
* terminal has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [21:33]
mod6 Being honest and forthcoming about matters will always go much father with me than anything else. ftr. [21:33]
ben_vulpes ENTIRELY unrelated: http://thismighthurt.tumblr.com/post/137653621429/siren-school-by-isabella-rotman-buy-the-comic << girl sends this along [21:33]
assbot This Might Hurt, but I'm Hungry ... ( http://bit.ly/1S4pauE ) [21:33]
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jurov kek, airship alternative to trans-siberian train.. now that'd be some achievement for hipsters [21:35]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: much related to earlier thread ! [21:36]
asciilifeform where http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2016#1384137 [21:36]
assbot Logged on 24-01-2016 14:40:14; mircea_popescu: "About a week ago, this pretty girl messages me out of the blue and we hit it off. We talked that night up until 5 AM and we have so much things in common. > She loves Star Wars > Plays video games > All other super nerdy shit > Never met a girl like that" << holy shit, this "all that much" evaluates to almost 0. wtf is wrong with people. [21:36]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: indeed! [21:36]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> yeah cuz crazy argentines, they're like excited sheep in the airport. << haha, it was a big crowd. You picked me out pretty quick. [21:42]
mod6 Also: From now on, if you are not in my WoT, and you are a n00b here, any pm's will be ignored, and you will feed my ignore list. [21:47]
ben_vulpes i still love you vexual baby [21:48]
ben_vulpes very interesting problems that crop up in the curation of the wot. [21:50]
mats he doesn't pm me anymore, probably because i'm not as fun as ben_vulpes [21:51]
ben_vulpes our timezones are so far off he just leaves me messages [21:51]
ben_vulpes unless the kid's up at 4 or whatever, i rarely actually interact with him. [21:51]
ben_vulpes heh [21:51]
ben_vulpes makes me sound like a great parent [21:52]
asciilifeform in other news, the 'shiva' thing is nearing 6,000 ln. [21:52]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: loc? [21:52]
asciilifeform aha [21:52]
* ben_vulpes grimaces [21:52]
ben_vulpes approaching usable? [21:52]
asciilifeform for connoisseurs only. [21:52]
* ben_vulpes looking forward to it [21:53]
trinque odd that it's trivial to figure out where I moved the deedbot- node, yet... works now. [21:55]
trinque whereas on AWS, blackholed to death [21:55]
asciilifeform trinque: all of my nodes ban aws [21:56]
asciilifeform as for prb, it doesn't like talking to trb (esp. with the malleus patch) [21:56]
trinque yep, but this was just connecting to whomever he wanted [21:56]
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mod6 Ok moving on. [22:05]
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mod6 mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs? [22:06]
mod6 Trying to decide if I should post 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' to the ML. [22:07]
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ben_vulpes mod6: appears to be a useful tool [22:09]
mod6 So the difference in 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is that the block of code in Sign() is spaced with tabs. And to Mr. P.'s point it should probably be all in a file or nothing. Otherwise its mis-matched. Some with spaces, some with tabs. [22:11]
mod6 I'm prefectly happy to reconstruct the patch with spaces to stay in alignment with the current (albiet unwated) spacing scheme. [22:12]
mod6 And then we can re-align post release. [22:12]
mod6 Or, we can halt everything else, and create a new genesis and re-align, re-vpatch and re-sign everything. [22:13]
polarbeard mod6: honest question, why using two flags if they can't be used at the same time? [22:14]
polarbeard can't it be like a three state flag? 0 -> no enforce, 1 -> enforce low, 2 -> enforce high [22:15]
polarbeard wink wink, ternary computers [22:16]
asciilifeform polarbeard: i originally suggested this [22:18]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-01-2016#1379610 [22:18]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 13:36:27; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379490 << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'. [22:18]
polarbeard that's still too flags, I searched before asking :) [22:19]
polarbeard *two [22:19]
asciilifeform polarbeard: you're still using 2 bits. [22:19]
polarbeard that's right, I only mean to simplify usage (if that matters to anybody) [22:20]
ben_vulpes i prefer my c++ as antagonistic as possible [22:21]
polarbeard also removes one conditional, as ascii noted days ago [22:24]
mod6 so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option. [22:25]
mod6 I believe we need two flags. [22:26]
mod6 If we simply get rid of 'fHighS' and 'fLowS' and replace with say 'fForceS', then how can we differentiate between entering into the high or low if block? [22:27]
polarbeard not using a boolean [22:28]
polarbeard or using two booleans, ascii's way [22:28]
mod6 am i not using two booleans, polarbeard? [22:29]
polarbeard but yours are contradictory [22:29]
polarbeard therefore the need for the conditional [22:29]
mod6 how would one set this singular boolean? [22:29]
mod6 remember, i want a default state to *not* require a flag at all. [22:29]
polarbeard you can't, using a single boolean, do you mean an int? [22:30]
mod6 right, i'd prefer not to use an int. [22:30]
ben_vulpes mod6: why not? [22:30]
mod6 because it causes confusion to have -forceS=0 (low) and -forceS=1 [22:31]
polarbeard you can use signeds, and then -1 0 1 [22:31]
mod6 from a user standpoint, i feel like its more conusing anyway. [22:31]
polarbeard 0 is the default, you may give -forceS=0 though, but that has no effect [22:32]
mod6 polarbeard: keep in mind that i considered all of this over a week ago -- and decided against it. so yeah, i have put a lot of thought into this. [22:32]
mod6 added complexity will result in bugs. [22:32]
* asciilifeform observes that this thread has already taken up more space than the patch. [22:32]
ben_vulpes i have a hard time giving a shit about the ergonomics when it's covered in finger-snipping blades already. [22:32]
ben_vulpes deck chairs. [22:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67200 @ 0.00055728 = 37.4492 BTC [-] [22:33]
ben_vulpes oh come now asciilifeform like we don't waste time on vastly more trivial shit all the time [22:33]
mod6 ^ [22:33]
asciilifeform ~we~ [22:33]
mod6 and asciilifeform, keep in mind that this is a *must* fix. i think that is vastly important that we discuss this in channel. [22:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00055728 = 6.1858 BTC [-] [22:34]
ben_vulpes ideally such a thread would result in a philosophical statement that'd guide future flags. [22:34]
asciilifeform mod6: ok. the rationale for my suggested thing was that no-flag ought to revert to 100% classical behaviour [22:34]
mod6 agreed. [22:34]
asciilifeform as in exactly same code. [22:34]
asciilifeform high s variant is exquisitely useful for when we get a pool. [22:36]
mod6 which is why i added that part. [22:36]
asciilifeform low s is useful so mircea_popescu can get his tx out without waiting a week. [22:36]
asciilifeform what remains ? [22:36]
mod6 i think there seems to be questions around why i have two booleans. [22:37]
mod6 i believe my implementation to be correct. [22:37]
asciilifeform what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ? [22:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 182722 @ 0.00055685 = 101.7487 BTC [-] {3} [22:39]
mod6 what are you driving at here? [22:39]
asciilifeform mod6: i've no idea [22:39]
asciilifeform but i do not know the difference [22:39]
asciilifeform and would like to [22:39]
asciilifeform reading the proposed patch [22:39]
ben_vulpes http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1.html#a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1 [22:40]
assbot openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_a22916b9617edac877f99da5b78de7ce1.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZM78MD ) [22:40]
ben_vulpes http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_aa6f4bce46de947050b5cc529b310392c.html [22:40]
assbot openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, crypto_2ecdsa_2ecdsa_8h_aa6f4bce46de947050b5cc529b310392c.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZM77YU ) [22:40]
ben_vulpes which is not the blessed openssl, but... [22:40]
asciilifeform ah ok [22:41]
ben_vulpes appears to be a wrapper around do_sign to some extent or another [22:41]
ben_vulpes gah this return value shit is hilarious [22:41]
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ben_vulpes mod6: what's the rationale behind including the commented out printfs? [22:45]
mod6 so the deal there is that was just some debugging info -- that may be useful to someone at some point. [22:57]
mod6 there was a discussion around this, and decided to leave them in as a result. will dig up... [22:58]
mod6 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379707 [22:58]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 15:20:05; mod6: does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them? [22:58]
mod6 anyway, asciilifeform yeah, i just grabbed that entire bit of code from here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.9.3/src/key.cpp#L202-L227 [22:59]
assbot bitcoin/key.cpp at v0.9.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1PxUUSi ) [22:59]
mod6 I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can. [23:00]
mod6 i suppose if we continue to use ECDSA_sign, we can continue to use: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); [23:03]
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ben_vulpes that'd be closest to the original code [23:10]
ben_vulpes and imho preferrable for that reason. [23:10]
mod6 true [23:11]
mod6 not sure what to do abut this tho: [23:11]
mod6 unsigned char pchSig[10000]; [23:11]
ben_vulpes perhaps fixing magic numbers is out of scope for a patch to force s-values? [23:13]
mircea_popescu ^ [23:13]
* mircea_popescu goes to read teh log [23:13]
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ben_vulpes mod6: are you referring to fixing the magic numbers? [23:15]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384722 << well, the proposal was for you to release current, 99996 or what it comes to, after which take a step back and do a clean of the spaces, make it 99995 [23:15]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 01:04:29; mod6: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes et. al., any further thoughts if we should clean up the code alignment (currently with spaces) post release and do a one-time clean up with tabs? [23:15]
mircea_popescu so you get a week off or something, during which people just run teh script and sign the results. [23:15]
mircea_popescu even a mod6 needs a week off now and again. [23:15]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384727 << this seems sane. [23:16]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 01:10:06; mod6: And then we can re-align post release. [23:16]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384741 << stop paying attention to these dudes, optimizing the wrong shed. [23:17]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 01:23:27; mod6: so what we want, is three different ways: no force one way or another, force high, or force low. remember, i originally didn't want to do a force high at all. but since asciilifeform requested this, i'm entertaining this option. [23:17]
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mircea_popescu !up aknix [23:17]
-assbot- You voiced aknix for 30 minutes. [23:17]
* assbot gives voice to aknix [23:17]
aknix Thanks! [23:17]
mircea_popescu aha. who're you ? [23:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16255 @ 0.00056495 = 9.1833 BTC [+] {3} [23:18]
mod6 Ok sounds good mircea_popescu. I'll stop my current work on the high/low patch. I'll spend this week getting the changes [.wot in the pwd, and mechanical post-patch hash checking] in V [v99996] released. Then I'll immediately begin work on a re-alignment of all the patches we currently are distributing. [23:19]
mircea_popescu wait. [23:19]
mod6 ok [23:19]
mircea_popescu what's your current work on teh patch ? [23:19]
aknix was actually just seeing if the channel was public again. Used to stop by now and then. [23:19]
mod6 Nothing more than "send to the list", if its current form 'http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt' is acceptable. [23:20]
mircea_popescu that's kinda what i had in mind too. [23:21]
mod6 Ok. I can get that done tonight yet. [23:21]
mircea_popescu i guess i unwittingly confused you, sorry about that. the S-patch was not actually intended to mark a new release did it ? [23:21]
mod6 Oh no. [23:21]
mod6 But it probably would have been the last thing to go into the tree before a release patch. [23:22]
mod6 (a vpatch to tie them all together) [23:22]
mircea_popescu oh ok, my bad. so what i was thinking here is : a) finish the patch ; b) do all the other stuff you were going to do in your own time ; c) when ready make a new version ; d) take a week off, during which everyone [who cares to] can write and run a script to / / [23:22]
mircea_popescu after which back to normal. that sound sane ? [23:22]
mod6 Yeah, sounds good. Thanks, want to get all of this done in a sane order and timely fashion. [23:23]
mircea_popescu so we'll have the 99996 > 99995 be "all tabulation, machine checkable" [23:23]
mircea_popescu and while it'd be tempting to overload it with stuff like moving the {, i would think it's better not to. make it simple and sweet to check. [23:23]
mircea_popescu stuff like { much easier to fix as patches/code is reviewed, by and by. [23:24]
mod6 agreed. let's try to keep it just down to the tabs for now. [23:24]
mod6 im sure i might need some more guidence when I get to working on that part, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. [23:24]
mircea_popescu this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell. [23:25]
mircea_popescu and yes ben_vulpes is writing a style guide from what i understand [23:25]
mod6 yeah, and this should make it all easier going forward to create the vpatch. overall, a good move sooner rather than later imho. [23:25]
mircea_popescu >D [23:25]
mod6 heheheh [23:25]
ben_vulpes wutnostahp [23:26]
mircea_popescu you said. [23:26]
ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380810 << does it not /drip/ with sarcasm? [23:26]
assbot Logged on 22-01-2016 04:10:33; ben_vulpes: WHY NOT WRITE A STYLE GUIDE WHILE WE'RE AT IT [23:26]
mircea_popescu so ? [23:27]
mircea_popescu it's my party, i can be a straight man if i want to [23:27]
mircea_popescu straight if i want to... [23:27]
mircea_popescu you would straight too-ooo-hoooh! [23:27]
mod6 haha [23:27]
mod6 !b 4 [23:27]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1B02DJ7.txt ) [23:27]
* ben_vulpes checks todo list [23:28]
ben_vulpes entire code base is almost guaranteed to be in conflict with any style guide unfortunately. [23:29]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384778 << yeah it's fine. [23:31]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 01:34:57; mod6: i believe my implementation to be correct. [23:31]
polarbeard 'corel devs did that on purpos to split the comuniteh!' [23:32]
thestringpuller so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit? [23:34]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: thoughts on ecdsa calls? [23:35]
ben_vulpes "father's pistols"? [23:35]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384779 <<< i don't think you're ready for this one son. [23:36]
mircea_popescu ECDSA_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL ; ECDSA_do_sign() is wrapper function for ECDSA_do_sign_ex with kinv and rp set to NULL. ECDSA_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgstlen bytes hash value dgst using the private EC key eckey and the optional pre-computed values kinv and rp. The DER encoded signatures is stored in sig and it's length is returned in sig_len. (sig [23:36]
mircea_popescu must point to ECDSA_size bytes of memory, the parameter type ~is ignored~). Meanwhile ECDSA_do_sign_ex() computes a digital signature of the dgst_len bytes hash value dgst using the private key eckey and the optional precomputed values kinv and rp. The signature is returned in a newly allocated ECDSA_SIG structure (or NULL on error). [23:36]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 01:36:11; asciilifeform: what's the diff b/w 'ECDSA_sign' and 'ECDSA_do_sign' ? [23:36]
mircea_popescu geddit ? [23:36]
mircea_popescu funny ben_vulpes, i was juist on that. [23:36]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller verification of any functional kind is the sworn enemy of anyone with phds. thinkaboutit. [23:37]
ben_vulpes i'm stalking your log progress [23:37]
mircea_popescu fancy that, someone actually thought this is how you design a function stack. [23:38]
ben_vulpes i will point out that changing to the wrapper implementation implies audits to be done of the implementation delta. [23:39]
mircea_popescu the difference between the two, incidentally, is not trivial. [23:40]
ben_vulpes still 'fine'? [23:41]
mircea_popescu !s fine from:mircea [23:41]
assbot 822 results for 'fine from:mircea' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fine+from%3Amircea [23:41]
mircea_popescu which one ? [23:41]
ben_vulpes most recent [23:42]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes we were discussing flags. [23:43]
BingoBoingo yeh, so is this still a qntra article or..? << If you submit something with all of the point brought up it channel, its chance of publication is a weighted coinflip. Depends what you can make of it. [23:43]
ben_vulpes HA DERP [23:43]
ben_vulpes my bad. [23:43]
mircea_popescu http://openssl.sourcearchive.com/documentation/0.9.8o-5ubuntu1/ecs__sign_8c_source.html#l00067 << they're here. [23:44]
assbot openssl 0.9.8o-5ubuntu1, ecs__sign_8c_source.html ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwg5HM ) [23:44]
ben_vulpes right but if we stick to the old impl the audit is no longer required. [23:45]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384844 << i'd like to know what mircea_popescu intends to do about ~future~ style-nonconformant patches. [23:45]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 02:22:44; mircea_popescu: this'd be the last juncture at which people who seriously and staunchly are against the space to tab switch should raise hell. [23:45]
mircea_popescu the do version ultimately returns return ecdsa->meth->ecdsa_do_sign(dgst, dlen, kinv, rp, eckey); while the no-do version just calls the do version. [23:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not sign them. [23:45]
asciilifeform gonna reject because my emacs emits a mixture of tabs'n'spaces ? [23:46]
mircea_popescu it does ?! [23:46]
asciilifeform i have it align columns when possible [23:46]
asciilifeform so now i gotta write an elisp for trb [23:46]
asciilifeform whereas before i did not [23:46]
mircea_popescu what non-tabulated collumns do you use ?! [23:46]
ben_vulpes i am still anti-tab, delimiter token hoojaberry aside [23:46]
asciilifeform indentation to the ( in an if ( ... etc [23:46]
mircea_popescu you indent to the ( not to the if ?! [23:47]
asciilifeform the 1st line of the inner block - yes [23:47]
asciilifeform like k&r did. [23:47]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: look who removed the magicnum https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/9ef7fa34 [23:47]
assbot Code cleanup: use ECDSA_size() instead of fixed 10,000 byte sig buffe… · bitcoin/bitcoin@9ef7fa3 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jwgv0X ) [23:47]
asciilifeform generally i see 'style guide' as a thing between the writer and his gods [23:47]
ben_vulpes indentation is poetry in any lisp [23:48]
mircea_popescu polarbeard you're not familiar with history. 2011 gavin is ok gavin. [23:48]
* assbot removes voice from aknix [23:48]
mircea_popescu see http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/ [23:48]
assbot And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvB8Kx ) [23:48]
asciilifeform to proclaim one in a project which did not previously have one, creates a megatonne of work for a great many people, to no very obvious benefit [23:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, if there's no consensus, there's no consensus and there it goes. [23:49]
asciilifeform the people whose crap i cannot stand reading, are the ones WITHOUT A CONSISTENT style. [23:49]
mircea_popescu poor mod6 gets no week off! [23:49]
asciilifeform lack of any style at all is generally symptomatic of serious cranial cockroaches [23:49]
ben_vulpes only reasonable style guide for this codebase is "make it look like the lines immediately above and below" [23:50]
mircea_popescu hey, if the change is not obviously a good thing it's probably a bad idea. it pisses me the fuck off, but whatevs, i'll sed or something. [23:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 232600 @ 0.0005613 = 130.5584 BTC [-] {3} [23:50]
asciilifeform sed, sed. [23:50]
asciilifeform i'm not even opposed to the thing getting retabulated on releases. [23:50]
mircea_popescu i can't code worth a crap anyway. [23:50]
asciilifeform but rejecting patches because they have the wrong terminal bells is lunacy [23:50]
polarbeard ben_vulpes: lol, vi... I mean notepad.exe has a plugin for that [23:50]
ben_vulpes what that [23:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform perhaps rejecting workers because they forgot to wipe their ass this morning also ? [23:51]
asciilifeform polarbeard: didja write a patch and i missed it reading the log ? [23:51]
polarbeard asciilifeform: gavin did [23:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-01-2016#1384801 << there's ~no difference. [23:52]
assbot Logged on 25-01-2016 01:58:21; mod6: I'm not an expert on the openssl internals. If you think I should not trust ECDSA_do_sign and reimplment with ECDSA_sign, I can. [23:52]
polarbeard ben_vulpes: for looking to the lines above and below and use that as the defaults [23:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's a raft of cosmetic/credible fixes between .5 and .6. [23:52]
asciilifeform well, one allocates, the other drops in place [23:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the one calls the other anyway. [23:52]
asciilifeform aha, was reading ben_vulpes's links earlier saw this [23:53]
mircea_popescu you mean my links ? [23:53]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [23:53]
asciilifeform and them [23:53]
mircea_popescu his are badly tabulated, don't count. [23:53]
asciilifeform l0l [23:53]
* ben_vulpes rolls eyes [23:54]
ben_vulpes polarbeard: huh i had no idea editors needed plugins to do that [23:54]
ben_vulpes the abominable variable naming alignment, yes [23:55]
BingoBoingo so. they took out verifyall in core bitcoind and replaced it with -reindex. -reindex doesn't disregard checkpoints. or at least no one knows if it does or not. how do these people have Ph.D's and shit? << -reindex and -verifyall are two different things. [23:55]
asciilifeform incidentally -verifyall was not in the classical bitcoin ! [23:55]
asciilifeform i added it ! [23:55]
mircea_popescu iirc also .6 branch [23:55]
asciilifeform https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=verifyall << i don't see any [23:56]
assbot Search Results · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JwhEpf ) [23:56]
mircea_popescu was a flurry of "build confidence & establish trust" activity cca 2011 / early 2012. [23:56]
asciilifeform did they call it something else ? [23:56]
mircea_popescu yeah, what was it [23:56]
mircea_popescu -checkblocks= How many blocks to check at startup (default: 288, 0 = all) [23:57]
asciilifeform 288?!! [23:57]
asciilifeform how was this arrived at, gotta ask [23:57]
asciilifeform ouija board/ [23:57]
asciilifeform ? [23:57]
mircea_popescu heh. this is novel, [23:57]
mircea_popescu it's a rewriting of an older thing [23:57]
mircea_popescu back when they added "check level" too, maybe 0.9 ? [23:58]
———
  1. p - sc->strbuff < sizeof(sc->strbuff [↩]
Category: Logs
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