Forum logs for 22 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

BingoBoingo	https://archive.is/0K3mx	[00:05]
assbot	fbkkgzngvxgmhx5ddcmc.jpg (800x285 pixels) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QoOvh4 )	[00:05]
mod6	ok i see what my hangup is.	[00:08]
mod6	so when i use Mr. P.'s pat: http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG.txt	[00:09]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/20iaFEr )	[00:09]
mod6	it pretty much applies the same, and if then I do a vdiff of a/bitcoin/src/key.h to b/bitcoin/src/key.h (where Mr. P.'s patch was applied in b/.../) then the diff looks the same.	[00:10]
mod6	only problem here is, it adds in spaces instead of tabs	[00:10]
mod6	so then if I go line by line adding tabs instead of the spaces, i get a bit of a different vdiff output as such:	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ / /	[00:11]
jurov	mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__	[00:12]
BingoBoingo	NSFL, what C++ feels like https://sli.mg/a/GAS4S4	[00:13]
assbot	Diabetes - Infection, Osteomyelitis, Gangrene ... ( http://bit.ly/1QoOMQY )	[00:13]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/06G91Q7.txt	[00:14]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QoONEv )	[00:14]
mod6	<+jurov> mod6 and why not "failed at" #__LINE__ "in" #__FILE__ << sounds good to me, can you give me a full example so I don't screw this up, ive never used tat before.	[00:14]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 really you shouldn't do this manually, just s/ / / << lemme try with this. thx.	[00:15]
*	toffoo has quit ()	[00:15]
jurov	the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it	[00:15]
jurov	maybe __FILE__ gives full path, i don't remember, then it's not very desirable	[00:15]
mircea_popescu	it's just compiler directivation.	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	well, preprocessor technically.	[00:16]
mircea_popescu	simply gets replaced wit hthe right numbers pre compile time	[00:16]
jurov	but __LINE__ should be used in any case, and # causes it to be treated as string	[00:16]
mod6	hmm. same thing.	[00:20]
mod6	oh boy this is obnoxious.	[00:20]
mod6	maybe i need to go line by line and do it all by hand.	[00:21]
jurov	if you go ahead with tabs, do you want lxr to ignore whitespace changes in diffs?	[00:23]
mod6	<+jurov> the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it << would this work? : printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed at #__LINE__ in #__FILE__ ");	[00:23]
jurov	for me it was amusing to see the amount of bile spent on that	[00:24]
jurov	mod6 yes that should work	[00:24]
mod6	ima leave that out for now.	[00:24]
jurov	mod6 ^ that was answer to my lxr q?	[00:25]
mod6	ah, now. im gonna leave the #__LINE__ #__FILE__ thing out.	[00:26]
mod6	*no	[00:26]
mod6	sigh	[00:26]
mod6	i gotta figure out how to get this patch exactly correct. can't seem to do it.	[00:27]
jurov	what are you doing?	[00:27]
jurov	if your're applying s/ / / straight to the diff, that won't work, the format does require space after + or -	[00:28]
mod6	no not straight to the diff.	[00:29]
mod6	post application	[00:29]
mod6	basically, im trying to get my +/- to look like mr. p.'s. but i can't seem to achieve that.	[00:30]
mod6	after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces.	[00:30]
mod6	and when I replace :293,331 s/ / / it basically ends up looking like this:	[00:31]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/0MP6SVW.txt	[00:31]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/20icml9 )	[00:31]
mod6	who knew that creating the patch would be harder than the code itself.	[00:31]
*	jixei_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[00:31]
jurov	yes this is the wrong approach, you ended up with + there	[00:33]
jurov	why can't you replace with tabs before running diff?	[00:34]
mod6	huh, dunno, guess i could try that.	[00:35]
jurov	also, looks like you replaced only first " " in line anyway	[00:35]
jurov	s/ / /g replaces all occurences but best solution is to set vim (or any editor) to use only tabs	[00:36]
jurov	and then :retab	[00:36]
jurov	(or whatever equivalent your editor does)	[00:36]
asciilifeform	ftr i think the whitespace thing is lunacy	[00:37]
asciilifeform	USE MOTHERFUCKING EMACS	[00:37]
asciilifeform	i don't need 200kB diffs.	[00:37]
mod6	<+mod6> huh, dunno, guess i could try that. << failed to patch	[00:37]
asciilifeform	for anything.	[00:37]
asciilifeform	if somebody wants to mechanically retab the genesis and regen ALL OF THE VPATCHES - go ahead	[00:38]
asciilifeform	but this is an astonishing waste of time imho	[00:38]
asciilifeform	while rome burns.	[00:39]
jurov	meh, i'm like... let them have their whitespace/style holy wars, they'll learn someday	[00:39]
jurov	if mod6 learns to set up his editor to emit consistent kind of whitespace, then today was not wasted	[00:40]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: Nero isn't playing his fiddle yet.	[00:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38052 @ 0.00056605 = 21.5393 BTC [+] {3}	[00:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57900 @ 0.00055795 = 32.3053 BTC [-] {2}	[00:45]
trinque	thestringpuller │ trinque: y u no use trb? << it's in the works.	[00:50]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:51]
trinque	looks like that'll happen in about 40k blox	[00:51]
mircea_popescu	after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces. << i made a tab'd one, then asciilifeform wanted a different one so i made that too. which are you looking at ?	[00:55]
mod6	This one here: http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG.txt	[00:56]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/20iaFEr )	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	that's the 2nd one ?	[00:56]
mod6	lemme check	[00:56]
mircea_popescu	or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway	[00:56]
*	gabriel_laddel has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[00:56]
mod6	(13:43) <+mircea_popescu> mod6 http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5 << in the humble hope that it may serve. << first one	[00:58]
assbot	dpaste: 2CH23F5 ... ( http://bit.ly/1npzalm )	[00:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 256700 @ 0.0005584 = 143.3413 BTC [+] {5}	[00:58]
mod6	(13:52) <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform http://dpaste.com/26VKRQG << second one	[00:58]
assbot	dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( http://bit.ly/1npAFQi )	[00:58]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway << im starting to wonder...	[00:58]
ben_vulpes	aha, ms. smith made the log finally!	[01:00]
*	ben_vulpes waves to yves	[01:00]
mod6	i did a `wget http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5.txt -O mp.first.diff` and the tabs in the + side seem to be preserved.	[01:00]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RXD01E )	[01:00]
mod6	but I didn't apply that one, just the second.	[01:00]
mod6	lemme see on that one.	[01:00]
mod6	yah, second one has no tabs at all.	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	heh. so i try to use inept merchant. inept merchant doesn't take bitcoin, but takes a variety of bullshit "payment processors", one of which "payza". i go whatever, they pop up a 0.04blabla btc, which i pay. turns out THEY WON'T PROCESS the payment they advertised until you "verify", ie click on some link in email. so i do. turns out they still won't process the payment they advertised, untill you... fill a form. so i	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	fill a form. turns out they... STILL won't process the payment they advertised, unti... you upload "documents". and they'll send your bitcoin back, of course. ALSO after you upload "documents".	[01:02]
ben_vulpes	heh clever	[01:02]
mircea_popescu	consequently, ikf anyone wants a payza account with 16 bux in it, it's crap@trilema.com, gangbangA1, and 12345678 "pin" w/e the shit that is.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	have fun.	[01:03]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes yeah, totally so very clever they'll spend thousands of dollars to dig themselves out of this pr hole and wonder why it dun work.	[01:03]
ben_vulpes	clever enough to get in trouble.	[01:05]
mircea_popescu	how this shit usually works.	[01:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.0005574 = 44.369 BTC [-] {2}	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell pete_dushenski aha, ty	[01:06]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:06]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell pete_dushenski also, considering a jeep cherokee or a toyota land cruiser of 2000 and 89 vintage for babywagon, any thoughts on either?	[01:07]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:07]
ben_vulpes	goals being low tco, ease of finding parts and cost of maintenance hours.	[01:07]
mircea_popescu	mod6 2nd one is deliberately made to not have tabs so as not to offend alf's diff.	[01:08]
ben_vulpes	http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/ << seconded for an in-depth discussion of the static build crapocalypse, and why we even bother with static builds anyways at the very least	[01:08]
assbot	An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. \| Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXE2uA )	[01:08]
mircea_popescu	18 but this is an astonishing waste of time imho << is it me or is this tack exactly opposite of what you were saying 6 hours ago ?!	[01:10]
asciilifeform	nope	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379617 ?	[01:10]
assbot	Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:24; asciilifeform: idiocy is ~contagious~	[01:10]
asciilifeform	it is	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	...	[01:10]
mircea_popescu	so which is it ?	[01:11]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379618	[01:11]
assbot	Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability	[01:11]
mircea_popescu	how would it do that ?	[01:11]
asciilifeform	by having 600KB of crud to read!	[01:11]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380503 << aye, to the extent that i 'learned cpp', and to the extent that i can even be said to 'know' any other programming language.	[01:11]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 00:51:59; asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion.	[01:11]
asciilifeform	because it touches every line ?	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	you don't have to read anything. apparently you don't even read the log lines!	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379678	[01:12]
assbot	Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	it's absolutely machine-verifiable, you also get some people's signatures, what's the problem.	[01:12]
asciilifeform	so genesis-2 ?	[01:12]
ben_vulpes	'scouring of spaces' means the tab-replacement?	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	myea	[01:13]
asciilifeform	why not also get rid of the idiot { on own line thing then.	[01:13]
asciilifeform	and the ( foo )	[01:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24918 @ 0.0005574 = 13.8893 BTC [-]	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	stop moving the fucking discussion omfg.	[01:13]
ben_vulpes	WHY NOT WRITE A STYLE GUIDE WHILE WE'RE AT IT	[01:13]
asciilifeform	hey the tabs thing only matters because mircea_popescu insists on programming in 'nano'	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	you just said	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	o god.	[01:13]
mircea_popescu	i dun have the energy to chase this. whatevs.	[01:14]
asciilifeform	hey if the man wants to program in 'nano' who am i to say.	[01:14]
asciilifeform	i can only take off my hat...	[01:14]
asciilifeform	anyway, who wants to regenesis, go.	[01:14]
mircea_popescu	barrier to coding should properly be "is willing to :retab back and forth forever because idiocy is contagious and we gotta argue all sides of any point".	[01:14]
asciilifeform	i'll sign.	[01:14]
ben_vulpes	'regenesis' << actually start over?!	[01:15]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: nah, see above	[01:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform one day your "idiocy is contagious and fixing it a collosal waste of time and i've changed my mind and wah wah" thing'll land you in the soup.	[01:15]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you did not understand what i meant when said 'contagious'	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	apparently.	[01:16]
asciilifeform	specifically that i saw leaving the formatting alone as a forced thing.	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	is the formatting as is idiocy or is it not idiocy.	[01:17]
asciilifeform	sure is	[01:17]
asciilifeform	but it ranked dead last on my list of what must be fixed.	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	then i fail to understand what objection you have.	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	this is not what you said, neither at the first juncture, nor at the 2nd juncture.	[01:18]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380586 << this is my fault and i am terribly sorry	[01:18]
asciilifeform	trb has papercut on one arm, gangrene in the other.	[01:18]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 02:06:34; trinque: was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	but anyway. off to cinephile.	[01:18]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line	[01:18]
BingoBoingo	Sounds like other arm could use papercut too, but cranked up to 11	[01:19]
asciilifeform	but if you want to auto-munge the whole thing, why not	[01:19]
trinque	ben_vulpes: whatwhatwhat ?	[01:19]
ben_vulpes	i set you on the btcd snipe hunt aeons ago iirc	[01:20]
mod6	so this is what i'm gonna do	[01:20]
mod6	im gonna add the code to key.h by hand.	[01:20]
mod6	then im gonna add tabs infront of all the non-empty lines in Sign()	[01:20]
mod6	and we'll go from there.	[01:21]
trinque	ben_vulpes: now it's stuck on a block 1-2 back, because reasons	[01:22]
trinque	ah nah it finally went	[01:24]
trinque	and so shall I, gnite #b-a	[01:25]
ben_vulpes	o/	[01:25]
mod6	ok here we are: http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt	[01:28]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RXGjpF )	[01:28]
*	Disconnected (Connection timed out).	[01:46]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[09:26]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[09:26]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[09:26]
*	[freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp	[09:26]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[09:26]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[09:27]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380835 << yeah well, that's sheer insanity. i wouldn't.	[09:29]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 04:16:03; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line	[09:29]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:36]
*	kcud_dab is now known as bad_duck	[09:39]
mircea_popescu	my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ?	[09:43]
mircea_popescu	and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	especially after hanging out here i trust c++ about as much as php with these sorts of things	[09:45]
mircea_popescu	the wisdom seems to be that "don't fucking memcpy by hand, the compiler inlines (or even register-moves) most assignments itself and unlike you it fucking knows when to do it", but hey.	[09:50]
mircea_popescu	i can't help myself but suspect there may have been a good reason for the weird, even given the immense piles of pointless insanity scattered throughout the code.	[09:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00055695 = 12.0301 BTC [-]	[09:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << did cosmo kramer (ex ceo, kramerica industries) end up hired as vp for fluentization and finally got to push through his pet project of homeless-driven rickshaws in new york or something ?	[10:00]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 07:54:42; punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed	[10:00]
mircea_popescu	"If there is someone at this point who can look at Jace's insane rambling during this event and take it as a credible threat to Brianna Wu's life, they are either willfully misconstruing the facts or being intentionally alarmist to the point of complete credibility loss. " mno. they are being obtuse to the point of well adjusted, functioning ustard. how the fuck else does anything work in that country ? look at a dumb	[10:02]
mircea_popescu	lazy kid and write down "student", look at a weirdo babbling and write down "threat report", the whole meta-state survives out of categorical confusion of this sort.	[10:02]
*	NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[10:03]
mircea_popescu	"The number of video views rose to almost 40,000 within a day" << sigh. this is notable in what fucking alt-world ? i remember the earlier days of "omaigerd teh interwebs matter" when the numbers destined to impress the reader were in the millions. by now it's as if "consensus" has been achieved around the proposition that such a statement is impressive period, and the number's irrelevant. 40k people viewed every singl	[10:04]
mircea_popescu	e fucking concrete support in every town that has a subway that same day. what of it!	[10:04]
mircea_popescu	"On GamerGhazi, comments explaining that Jace was little more than an elaborate hoax were deleted, because they did not fit Wu's harassment narrative."	[10:05]
mircea_popescu	aaanyway.	[10:05]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[10:07]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.44000000 BTC on 'No' - BTC price to rise above PM price of 1oz of gold before Oct 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1235/btc-price-to-rise-above-pm-price-of/#b16	[10:08]
*	contrapumpkin is now known as copumpkin	[10:11]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380928 << actually i'd say this is his best one yet. slowly a sort of milleresque dickensian balzac may emerge out of that fellow.	[10:18]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 08:01:50; BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3692	[10:18]
mircea_popescu	but in any case the improvement over time is marked.	[10:18]
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mircea_popescu	Steevo moaned, “I can’t even afford a pizza for the wife and kid on Friday night << the depth of the fucking disconnect. i wouldn't even eat what he calls pizza, if it were free. in fact i'd have serious compunction giving it to some begging dude.	[10:24]
mircea_popescu	there must be some exaggeration involved, somewhere.	[10:24]
mircea_popescu	but, in other news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/1b5f941158bb4e3e22703dbaed3a75a8/tumblr_nllissMVc81upsme5o1_400.gif	[10:31]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OBThoZ )	[10:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58350 @ 0.00056236 = 32.8137 BTC [+] {4}	[10:32]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[10:43]
punkman	http://3lproject.org/ lisp OS vaporware	[10:48]
assbot	The 3L Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBVpgo )	[10:48]
mircea_popescu	in other news : the title for stealing the highest traffic website doesn't go to the derps you'd expect, but to the russkis equivalent. http://jw.org	[10:49]
assbot	Jehovah’s Witnesses—Official Website: jw.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBVrFb )	[10:49]
punkman	huh?	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	dig jw.org	[10:50]
mircea_popescu	;; ANSWER SECTION: jw.org. 3471 IN A 212.1.224.74	[10:50]
gribble	Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.	[10:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056678 = 12.4692 BTC [+] {2}	[11:05]
shinohai	also known as the creepy people that stalk you in city subway terminals hawking magazines.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	aha. apparently verboten in russia.	[11:08]
shinohai	Does that apply to all proselytizing though?	[11:10]
mircea_popescu	i'm sure if they could.	[11:11]
shinohai	http://i.imgur.com/DXUmKLZ.png?1	[11:14]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OBYJbq )	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	supposedly 4chan accepts bitcoin payments.... except when you go to pay them, they take paypal and the ccs. what sorta bs is this, are these people living in 2011 or somesuch ?	[11:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13836 @ 0.00056535 = 7.8222 BTC [-]	[11:57]
assbot	Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... ( http://bit.ly/1WASQOL )	[11:59]
mircea_popescu	this has been going on for decades now.	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc	[12:00]
mircea_popescu	also someone tell newstarget.com that hostgator is stealing their 404s	[12:01]
*	deedbot- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[12:01]
*	PeterL_urk is now known as PeterL	[12:01]
PeterL	Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... << wasn't there already a thread about sheepfucking?	[12:03]
mircea_popescu	lol	[12:03]
*	ascii_butugychag (~stanislav@162.17.208.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:05]
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thestringpuller	So Victoria from changetip in her youth: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=97ef9c62-b97d-43bf-afe4-7dfc06d20559	[12:32]
mod6	morning!	[12:32]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Not very "warm and fuzzy" on the openssl trust factor either. Would some tests or debugging help around this part?	[12:34]
mircea_popescu	the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.	[12:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00056372 = 24.7473 BTC [-] {3}	[12:40]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:b8e2:1c9c:fe32:8ba2) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:44]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[12:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[12:44]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381007 << these were not chimeras ! but immunocompromised beasts	[12:45]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 14:57:50; mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	yawell.	[12:45]
ascii_butugychag	in exactly the same sense that man who eats chicken is not a man-chicken chimera.	[12:46]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380965 << how could this possibly be true ?	[12:47]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 12:42:36; mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[12:47]
ascii_butugychag	these statements don't even refer to the same destination	[12:48]
ascii_butugychag	am i missing something ?	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	mmm nah just me being sloppy	[12:49]
ascii_butugychag	hm ok	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	da fuck is this.	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.	[12:51]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << this kind of sad is well-known from the 'hired welfare fella and now he's poorer' thing	[12:52]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 07:54:42; punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	right ?	[12:52]
ascii_butugychag	can just say vchSig	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	so i wasn't being sloppy.	[12:52]
mircea_popescu	my question is : are these two in fact equivalent. because we can end up with surprises in this sort of change.	[12:53]
ascii_butugychag	which is the other ?	[12:53]
ascii_butugychag	(other side of the equivalence)	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	dawg.... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381029 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381032	[12:54]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:10; mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.	[12:54]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:34; mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is	[12:54]
mircea_popescu	c++ is fucking impossible to follow.	[12:54]
ascii_butugychag	both statements are correct	[12:55]
ascii_butugychag	but they are not equivalent	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	ok but aren't they intended to be functionally equivalent by the patch ?	[12:55]
*	ascii_butugychag goes to read the patch	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt is what i'm working on atm	[12:55]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RXGjpF )	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	aha already found it	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	these are only marginally easier to read than to write...	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	(which is why i normally like to write'em)	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	from what i hear from people who'd know, tis a common affliction.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless, the bit is in the horse's mouth : trb will be more read than wrot.	[12:57]
*	ascii_butugychag notices that boss is mysteriously missing	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	perhaps he did not want to get marooned in this tower.	[12:58]
ascii_butugychag	(there is supposed to be a snow fall tonight in this part of the world, train stations will close, etc)	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	someone should someday write the anthropological study about the impact of katrina in the media. it's when derping pointlessly about the weather went from ridiculous to social expectation.	[13:00]
kakobrekla	since when do trains stop working if its snowing?	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	i would have ignored it but there was much noise about preemptive closing of the trains	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	which is a new thing	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	lived here since '92 and it never happened.	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla since the infrastructure hasn' been maintained in 30 years.	[13:02]
ascii_butugychag	also they sent usg home	[13:02]
ascii_butugychag	even white house apparently skeleton-crewed	[13:02]
ascii_butugychag	(no word on whether obamitler is buttoned up inside or went off to the tropics)	[13:02]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile in the other best korea, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb1i-h-m3G4	[13:03]
assbot	Crazy Russian Snow Plowing - Train Snow Plowing - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpztRH )	[13:03]
ascii_butugychag	i suspect that usa isn't ~long~ enough to feature this scene	[13:04]
ascii_butugychag	(you need not only snow but rails that aren't traversed regularly)	[13:04]
mircea_popescu	a proper snowstorm can drop ten feet overnight.	[13:05]
thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag: shouldn't you be at home. you don't want to get stranded in the uranium mines.	[13:06]
ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: nobody cancelled the uranium mines.	[13:06]
PeterL	what does DC get, like a half an inch at a time and they shut down? Up north here we don't blink at a foot of snow.	[13:06]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: normally. result is that the place is grossly underequipped for anything like reasonable snow, and traffic grinds to a halt	[13:07]
ascii_butugychag	when there actually is some	[13:07]
ascii_butugychag	(which happens every coupla years)	[13:07]
PeterL	y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow	[13:07]
thestringpuller	PeterL: You guys have more than 1 snowplow for the whole state.	[13:08]
thestringpuller	PeterL: your roads are also the worst thing to drive on ever.	[13:08]
punkman	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuX4G3znpDE pretty cool	[13:09]
assbot	Rotary Snow Plow - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpArxo )	[13:09]
PeterL	just don't drink the water if you are driving through Flint	[13:09]
ascii_butugychag	doesn't help that d.c. roads are packed to 110% even without any snow or rain etc	[13:09]
ascii_butugychag	as for why they'd close the trains, i cannot say except that the latter are in a historic state of disrepair.	[13:10]
ascii_butugychag	every day one gets stuck, rails crack, various joys	[13:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41798 @ 0.00055672 = 23.2698 BTC [-] {2}	[13:11]
ascii_butugychag	and dc metro dept. pulls interesting tricks - retains ~half the staff actually needed so that the remaining can work mandatory overtime and earn ~200K-usd	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	PeterL> y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow << ho i knew took a (well earned) vacation to morocco in the middle of the carpathian winter once. her fondest memory was that there was a tiny bit of snow just as she got ou of the bus, and everyone in sight was on their ass. "they have no idea how to walk on snow, the africans!"	[13:12]
*	terminal (8699178d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.153.23.141) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:14]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	!up terminal	[13:15]
-assbot-	You voiced terminal for 30 minutes.	[13:15]
*	assbot gives voice to terminal	[13:15]
PeterL	is that terminal as in cancer or terminal as in computer, or as in train station?	[13:16]
terminal	good question	[13:17]
thestringpuller	Grand Central Terminal is the train station	[13:17]
thestringpuller	Grand Central Station is the post office	[13:17]
terminal	it's cool and ambiguous	[13:17]
terminal	who knows	[13:17]
PeterL	ah, but who are you?	[13:17]
terminal	I'm a guy who's thinking about buying a significant amount of ETH	[13:19]
thestringpuller	Why?	[13:20]
thestringpuller	Guaranteed loss.	[13:20]
mircea_popescu	wow check it out, the things that exist.	[13:20]
shinohai	O.o	[13:20]
PeterL	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376728 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376731 << Later I realized why I missed the isomer joke: L is isomer of D, R is isomer of S, not quite interchangeable	[13:20]
assbot	Logged on 19-01-2016 13:40:52; *: adlai notes, as a humorous aside, that someday there needs to be a rock-off between PeterL and PeterR	[13:20]
assbot	Logged on 19-01-2016 13:41:39; mircea_popescu: lol no idea ? your isomer ?	[13:20]
terminal	Why a guaranteed loss?	[13:20]
thestringpuller	PeterL: you're a chemist right?	[13:20]
PeterL	yeah	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	PeterL hey, best humour is sloppy!	[13:21]
terminal	I'm a software developer who is interested in the ecosystem, I see a lot of practicality in ethereum. Mostly I'm just looking for longterm gains	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	terminal well, get in the wot and let us know how your trade went as far as long term gains.	[13:21]
terminal	wot?	[13:22]
terminal	Why the negative sentiment about ethereum here?	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	!s ethereum	[13:23]
assbot	529 results for 'ethereum' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ethereum	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	can start reading teh logs.	[13:23]
punkman	terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	hehehe	[13:23]
shinohai	kek	[13:23]
terminal	Thanks for that mircea	[13:24]
punkman	hey ETH's back to 0.00387	[13:26]
*	sergiohlb (sergiohlb@unaffiliated/sergiohlb) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	!up sergiohlb	[13:27]
-assbot-	You voiced sergiohlb for 30 minutes.	[13:27]
*	assbot gives voice to sergiohlb	[13:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00056678 = 15.133 BTC [+] {2}	[13:28]
-AdrianG-	can i pls get an !up	[13:33]
thestringpuller	punkman: so the suckers took the bait...	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	!up AdrianG	[13:34]
-assbot-	You voiced AdrianG for 30 minutes.	[13:34]
*	assbot gives voice to AdrianG	[13:34]
AdrianG	thx.	[13:34]
AdrianG	ethereum could have short-term momentum due to investors interest, its far more preferable to mention it in corporate pitches vs bitcoin.	[13:34]
thestringpuller	that's because investors seem to be borderline scandalous these days.	[13:35]
PeterL	obligatory http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/	[13:35]
thestringpuller	Bitcoin isn't yieling what they have come to expect, so lets through fiat at Ehtereum and see what happens.	[13:35]
assbot	The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsGWG5 )	[13:35]
AdrianG	terminal: scandalous how?	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	AdrianG if what you aim is to make money out of the vc circus, you're very much in the wrong spot.	[13:36]
thestringpuller	;;google site:trilema.com the problem of too much money	[13:36]
gribble	The problem of too much money on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: ; Money, fucking and lying on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: ; Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation "problem" on Trilema ...:	[13:36]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: ^-obligatory	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	like every fashion-driven scam, gotta keep ahead of the wavefront, not sit behind.	[13:37]
AdrianG	i remember at the peak of btc 2013 heights, litecoin was something around 11% of the btc marketcap	[13:37]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: guess that's how TaT made bank on the ASICMINER scam.	[13:37]
AdrianG	some spillover is inevitable	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	heh, the usg can't afford to throw away half a bil just for this.	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	some spillover, sure.	[13:38]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: if you are trying to extract fiat profits from Bitcoin, you've got some learnin' to do.	[13:38]
AdrianG	thestringpuller: as for bitcoin not doing what investors expect, ethereum can be shoehorned into their needs much more easily	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	certainly.	[13:38]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: and this is good thing because?	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	the only problem with their "needs" is that their needs are a certain path to their own doom.	[13:38]
AdrianG	thestringpuller: good is subjective. its just a perception.	[13:39]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: there is sanity and insanity. You don't try to run a business with insanit expecting it to function.	[13:39]
thestringpuller	Most Bitcoin VC cirus shows are like watching a very long episode of the Profit without Marcus Lemonis.	[13:40]
AdrianG	why is using something like ethereum insanity?	[13:40]
thestringpuller	because Buterin has a big head.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	what's your idea of "using" ?	[13:40]
AdrianG	thestringpuller: he's just very skinny	[13:40]
thestringpuller	They said that about Dib from Invader Zim and he obviously didn't amount to much.	[13:41]
thestringpuller	Just the insane musings of a derp with too big of a head.	[13:41]
AdrianG	mircea_popescu: i think a programmable ledger has legitimate uses. unfortunately for ethereum holders, those ledgers are going to be private and inaccessible from outside.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea why you think this is a use.	[13:42]
AdrianG	that it has uses?	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	the comet W52C2 also "has legitimate uses".	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	who's using it ?	[13:42]
AdrianG	banks are drowning in legacy code. anything that helps them to move away from it is useful.	[13:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00056679 = 10.8257 BTC [+]	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	this is a very naive view.	[13:42]
AdrianG	even as just an experiment, really.	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	an unhappily married woman is drowning in sorrow	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	any cock rubbing on her is useful ?	[13:42]
mircea_popescu	what are we, 15 ?	[13:43]
mircea_popescu	malformed, dysfunctional, self-contradictory, defeated propositions aren't better than the currently chosen broken one. the broken one hasn't been chosen on technical merit.	[13:43]
AdrianG	what makes you so certain it has no uses whatsoever?	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	this is exactly why all the "oh, bitcoin needs x" "oh, bitcoin must or else Y will" bla bla is meaningless.	[13:44]
AdrianG	thats a very broad view	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	i like broads.	[13:44]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: you're failing to realize how terminal the system is right now.	[13:45]
AdrianG	thestringpuller: i never argued against that.	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	take your window, on the presumption that you are currently located in a room with one. this window of yours COULD be used as a door, to a larger degree than ethereum could be used to anything.	[13:45]
mircea_popescu	neveretheless... have you used it as a door ? will you ?	[13:45]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: Yes but you are arguing for trying to teach a sickly man to learn how to dunk a basketball.	[13:46]
AdrianG	why do you guys only speak in strawmen?	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[13:46]
thestringpuller	Just because with cybernetics "he could" but should he?	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	illustrate this!	[13:46]
*	assbot removes voice from terminal	[13:46]
AdrianG	cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	o noes they terminated terminal! YOU BASTIDS	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	AdrianG how does this make the window a strawman ?	[13:47]
AdrianG	they can just basically automate a lot of regulatory compliance and cut out humans	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	of course, the other way to automate regulatory bs is to ignore it until it goes away.	[13:47]
thestringpuller	^-this	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	seems much cheaper.	[13:47]
PeterL	cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits << why do they need etherum for this? just sign bits of the normal ledger as they are made, why do you need to involve cryptocurrency?	[13:48]
AdrianG	PeterL: it would have nothing to do with cryptocurrency ofc.	[13:48]
AdrianG	ethereum as a cryptocurrency itself is probably useless.	[13:48]
thestringpuller	PeterL: better yet http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374612	[13:49]
*	saulimus (~someone@mobile-access-6df016-6.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[13:49]
AdrianG	PeterL: it would be just a private instance, or a federated peg at best.	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	so...	[13:50]
AdrianG	and signing the normal ledger, is just a small part, programmability gives you a lot more flexibility to code business logic in.	[13:50]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: how does this not differ from: "it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other."	[13:51]
thestringpuller	Buterin's view of how a contract works is highly skewed.	[13:51]
AdrianG	thestringpuller: it differs in that an implementation already exists.	[13:51]
thestringpuller	except ethereum assumes all individuals in a contract act as machines. Better yet why not make them all machines!	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	AdrianG implementation is not per se valuable, for the sad reason that it is much cheaper to write code than to read it.	[13:52]
AdrianG	mircea_popescu: people tend to re-use existing stuff.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	anyone in business will prefer to write de novo rather than audit the dubious code of the crowd of idiot kids gathered around that buteriun dude.	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	NOBODY reuses anything. this has not happened yet.	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	it's a delusion, born fundamentally out of a lack of business experience.	[13:53]
AdrianG	banks' software depends on thousands of libraries written by random hobos	[13:53]
AdrianG	it wouldnt be anything new	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	i guess by this argument we shall invest in hobos.	[13:54]
thestringpuller	AdrianG: actually it's mostly a lot of java/vb code written by indian d00ds.	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller he's technically correct, they just stole it and delivered it, but anyway.	[13:54]
thestringpuller	aha	[13:55]
thestringpuller	i've invested in hobos. not really an investment as much as charity.	[13:55]
thestringpuller	it's also better to pay them in 40s than actual money	[13:55]
AdrianG	thestringpuller: sure, random indian d00ds	[13:56]
AdrianG	its not qualitatively different from code written by random hobos	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	well, so get in the wot, look into v and be happy.	[13:57]
*	assbot removes voice from sergiohlb	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	better investment than chasing cephaloids' dubious fortunes at mit.	[13:57]
PeterL	does trb debug.log grow infinitely?	[13:59]
AdrianG	look into v?	[13:59]
punkman	PeterL: it compacts on startup iirc	[13:59]
PeterL	so should I do something to it while it is running?	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	!v ascii_butugychag	[14:00]
assbot	Invalid verfication string.	[14:00]
punkman	PeterL: I guess you could rotate the log	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:00]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	AdrianG http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/	[14:01]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i've been wondering, what the nazi variant of 'v' might look like	[14:01]
assbot	The V Manual Genesis on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgC7ZS )	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	more links in thar.	[14:01]
ascii_butugychag	or does it even make sense to suppose that usg uses anything of the kind	[14:01]
punkman	probably involves smartcards?	[14:01]
ascii_butugychag	they have a bastardized pgp, for instance	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag ever met a govt employee that welcomed accountability ?	[14:01]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: no, but i've met hordes who just ~loved~ faux-accountability	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	so what would the paper car look like ?	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	well... as much as a car without combustion as possible.	[14:02]
jurov	they do try at NASA, but they do it in meritocracy way	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	didn't nasa get its funding cut for this ?	[14:02]
jurov	i.e. ennumerating mistakes, not people	[14:02]
mircea_popescu	lol, because mistakes, rather than people, are finite. gg.	[14:03]
*	TheAdversary has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[14:03]
*	Hasimir has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[14:03]
jurov	dunno about funding, but it's nice example to avoiding accountability	[14:03]
*	sergiohlb has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	i still recall the feynman conundrum. to me it's the archetype for this.	[14:03]
ascii_butugychag	it is not enough, for a classic bureaucrat, to avoid accountability; he has to put in scar tissue that gives the appearance thereof	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	remember ? the o rings ?	[14:04]
*	terminal has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[14:04]
trinque	ascii_butugychag: sounds like a centralized CVS/SVN repo where sigs "vote" for what constitutes the master branch	[14:04]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i think everybody remembers the o-rings	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	trust, but verify!	[14:04]
*	terminal2 (8699178d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.153.23.141) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:04]
ascii_butugychag	it was when feynman became a popular cult figure	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	o ?	[14:04]
jurov	oh i meant pirely software development	[14:04]
*	assbot removes voice from AdrianG	[14:04]
jurov	no idea about possiblility of signing hardware	[14:04]
*	mircea_popescu privately bets alfie will mention the three russian stooges thing.	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	i think i already mentioned them in the logz	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	aok	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	interestingly, i did some digging,	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	turns out that the '3' system was possibly saharov's idea	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	and borrowed by korolev	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	rather than vice-versa	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	but i'm probably the last one alive who gives half a shit	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	seeing how the men in question were unfortunate to die befgore the bible.	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	i suppose in the future there will be the principal cause of war :	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	different branches in the wot disputing which earlier node to be credited with x.	[14:07]
ascii_butugychag	as in sunni vs shia ?	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	quite, but with crypto verification.	[14:07]
ascii_butugychag	l0lzies	[14:07]
mircea_popescu	!up terminal2	[14:08]
-assbot-	You voiced terminal2 for 30 minutes.	[14:08]
*	assbot gives voice to terminal2	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	terminal2 http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ and for that matteer	[14:08]
mircea_popescu	!help	[14:08]
assbot	What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpJ1vR )	[14:08]
assbot	http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot	[14:08]
kakobrekla	help isnt adequate for joining wot really, this is better http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets	[14:09]
assbot	first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )	[14:09]
mircea_popescu	ah kk.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	can we has !wot ?	[14:10]
kakobrekla	prolly	[14:10]
terminal2	Thanks mircea	[14:11]
PeterL	can we has !wot where the links get sent from assbot to instead of dumping in chan?	[14:11]
PeterL	proly want to limit the number of times assbot responds to stop spam vector?	[14:12]
kakobrekla	noobs are often blind to pms	[14:12]
PeterL	oh, nevermind then	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't hurt anything being linked in chan anyway.	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	gets indexed better.	[14:13]
mircea_popescu	but if you';re sick of seeing it you should be able to config your client to ignore that line.	[14:13]
terminal2	I've never had a GPG key before lol. I will make one tonight. On ETH: While I don't see a reason for established companies to re-use ethereum - I think you need to account for all the companies nerd kids will create ontop of it - which will grow	[14:16]
*	TheAdversary (~adversary@unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:16]
terminal2	Migrating a DAO off of ethereum would not be an easy thing to do in most cases	[14:16]
terminal2	It's a very sticky platform	[14:16]
PeterL	all the "companies" will be amazing	[14:17]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[14:17]
terminal2	Only takes a couple of breakout successes to make ETH take off I think	[14:19]
thestringpuller	terminal2: oh like ASICMINER	[14:22]
mircea_popescu	terminal2 by this reasoning you really should invest in toilets.	[14:23]
terminal2	Don't know anything about ASICMINER	[14:23]
mircea_popescu	think of all the growth the kids will create on top of their parent's food!	[14:23]
terminal2	Toilets would have been great to invest in before they were owned by everyone	[14:24]
terminal2	Now everyone has a toilet	[14:24]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Just to touch back on this again - I'd like to see more of this. If you happen to be reading through the code, and there is a question, ask - let's discuss.	[14:25]
thestringpuller	terminal2: ASICMINER actually delivered on their IPO, their stock skyrocketed. However due to insane management that seems to be very common in the mining world, the company imploded.	[14:25]
mod6	And 'you' in the sense of all of us. Not just Mr. P.	[14:25]
mircea_popescu	mod6 kinda what my thinking is.	[14:26]
mod6	I think it's vital that we all gain a good grasp of what the intricacies are in this code - myself included.	[14:26]
thestringpuller	d00d. once you hit block 280k it chugs so slow.	[14:26]
-AdrianG-	my voice expired	[14:26]
mod6	ya it happens.	[14:27]
thestringpuller	100k blocks to go ~_~ eta like 1 more week	[14:27]
thestringpuller	and this is a decent PC.	[14:27]
*	drnet (~drnett@178.115.128.178.wireless.dyn.drei.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	mod6 the thing is, that 10`000 we took out - while very sensible to be out and belongs out - could very well had been covering up for say an openssl bug.	[14:27]
mircea_popescu	like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow.	[14:28]
thestringpuller	well openssl will eventually need to be excised as well, what to replace it with, I don't know.	[14:28]
mircea_popescu	while cutting out crud we could get away with less poring, but as we add / change / etc it becomes ever more problematic.	[14:28]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: wouldn't unit testing coverage prevent some of this from becoming a problem?	[14:29]
ascii_butugychag	no.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	it will catch all the bugs it catches	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	and not catch all the bugs it doesn't catch.	[14:30]
ascii_butugychag	!s dijkstra testing	[14:30]
assbot	1 results for 'dijkstra testing' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dijkstra+testing	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	nono, i prefer my own quote! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381014	[14:31]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 15:31:49; mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.	[14:31]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:31]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[14:31]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:31]
thestringpuller	so what? like bug that exists that needs to exist?	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	no, like bug whose wot you're not in.	[14:31]
thestringpuller	If you have expected behavior there should be a way to measure if that behavior changes due to something introduced into the system.	[14:32]
thestringpuller	i don't know in practice how "unknown unknowns" affect the system.	[14:32]
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ascii_butugychag	there are exactly three mechanisms known for creating correctness:	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	in order of decreasing idiocy,	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	1) fits-in-head. also known popularly as 'knowing precisely wtf you're doing'	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	2) mathematical proof	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	3) testing.	[14:36]
ascii_butugychag	increasing idiocy.	[14:37]
ascii_butugychag	l0l	[14:38]
*	assbot removes voice from terminal2	[14:38]
trinque	the goddamned deedbot node would not sync no matter what... untli I changed his external IP	[14:39]
ascii_butugychag	trinque: if it's not a seekrit: why does deedbot use a heathen bitcoinatron ?	[14:39]
trinque	because his new trb node is at 152k	[14:40]
trinque	*352k	[14:40]
ascii_butugychag	ah hm	[14:40]
mod6	<+mircea_popescu> like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow. << i very much agree with this methodology.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	trinque i suspect this is what drove alf's ideas of you know, deliberate sabotage against trb nodes.	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	you're not the first to see such wonders.	[14:45]
trinque	I have seen ample evidence to suggest it in deedbot's logz	[14:46]
trinque	in related news, deedbot- will be back when I figure out why it can no longer connect to freenode, having only changed his external IP	[14:51]
ascii_butugychag	here's a riddle. why no straight tcp ddos against any of'em ?	[14:52]
ascii_butugychag	why this wankery.	[14:52]
ascii_butugychag	what, usg botnet only works on trilema ?	[14:52]
ascii_butugychag	i suppose the theory is that we are morons, and will conclude that 'trb is broken, can't sync' ?	[14:53]
trinque	ascii_butugychag: http://dpaste.com/1R6PACY.txt << for example	[14:54]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OLyQDK )	[14:54]
ascii_butugychag	that looks like a full relay ?	[14:55]
trinque	ascii_butugychag: was there something else I was supposed to say aside from NICK to get going?	[14:59]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[15:01]
trinque	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:01]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[15:02]
ascii_butugychag	PASS and USER ?	[15:02]
ascii_butugychag	e.g.,	[15:02]
ascii_butugychag	PASS none	[15:02]
ascii_butugychag	NICK luser	[15:02]
ascii_butugychag	USER blah	[15:02]
punkman	terminal2: Now everyone has a toilet << not true, and good chance you'll make more money investing in toilets than ETH	[15:05]
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punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380943 BB even shared toilet investment opportunity earlier	[15:07]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 09:03:57; BingoBoingo: http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/fall/liftSeat.oncare	[15:07]
ascii_butugychag	i prefer mircea_popescu's idea	[15:09]
ascii_butugychag	have been thinking about it	[15:09]
ascii_butugychag	it would probably look something like a nagant cylinder turned up	[15:09]
ascii_butugychag	(7-seats variant ?)	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag incidentally, i suspect you'll find the latest quite very interesting, if you manage to wade through it all.	[15:10]
ascii_butugychag	but really in his harem scenario i'd imagine he would build something more like a horseshoe shape, so the users can face one another	[15:10]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: the grep output ?	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	no, on trilema	[15:10]
*	ascii_butugychag reads	[15:11]
thestringpuller	Can we get a graph like this: https://camo.githubusercontent.com/43c79ffbe5c5db49c01d5546ce1b57b2f1e83b21/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f6f62634c6a44442e706e67?	[15:16]
thestringpuller	subtract the question mark at the end :(	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	does 0.12 even do any validation anymore ?	[15:18]
thestringpuller	no.	[15:20]
thestringpuller	I want to see where the "churn" is in TRB.	[15:20]
thestringpuller	I might do another sync just to construct a graph.	[15:20]
thestringpuller	the above option wasn't using --verify-all	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[15:21]
*	deedbot- (~deedbot-@172.86.178.46) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	so in that sense, my os copies files a lot faster than that.	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	seriously, 10 hours for 100gb ? what is this, maxtor days ?	[15:21]
trinque	well. I certainly didn't change the configuration to get that to connect.. merely the origin	[15:21]
*	deedbot- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	trinque see, problem fixed.	[15:22]
trinque	AWS being the host was certainly a problem.	[15:23]
mircea_popescu	no i meant sarcastically, cus it parted.	[15:24]
trinque	o lol	[15:24]
trinque	he'll be back again shortly	[15:24]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: that article makes me think of (i entirely forget the source) - approximately - 'every man's life has a time when things were working correctly'	[15:25]
mircea_popescu	heh	[15:26]
thestringpuller	trinque: you found a new host?	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	so you suspect it's me, do you ?	[15:26]
trinque	thestringpuller: yep, though not one I've passed any judgement on yet, other than "is elsewhere"	[15:27]
ascii_butugychag	the observation about 'girl is not annoying because it is a girl' is spot-on	[15:27]
ascii_butugychag	i verified it experimentally at minimal cost	[15:27]
ascii_butugychag	one does not need to be mircea_popescu to test this.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	thanks god.	[15:27]
ascii_butugychag	reading mircea_popescu's recollections of the '90s porn set feels a little like another one of my predilections, memoirs of su physics/math folk	[15:29]
ascii_butugychag	same feel of 'alas sunken atlantis'	[15:29]
thestringpuller	!s girl is not annoying because	[15:29]
assbot	0 results for 'girl is not annoying because' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=girl+is+not+annoying+because	[15:29]
ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: this was re: the latest trilema article	[15:29]
thestringpuller	aha	[15:29]
mircea_popescu	i don't think anyone sane was seriously thinking the situation may survive. it was painfully obvious we're riding a self-limiting wave.	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	then again, granted, most of those involved were pretty nuts.	[15:30]
ascii_butugychag	'gold rush' is always quite similar, no ?	[15:31]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	pretty much, yeah.	[15:32]
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mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:32]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[15:32]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[15:32]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: the observation about 'camgurlz are a magnet for the attention of subhuman bois' seems unsurprising	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	they drive otherwise "normal" boys into subhumanity.	[15:39]
ascii_butugychag	... isn't that sorta like 'toilet is a magnet for shit' ? yes, sometimes people plant flowers in one. but speaking as to its purpose.	[15:39]
ascii_butugychag	srsly?	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	this isn't a castigation of them. but the system is a chute down not a chute up.	[15:39]
ascii_butugychag	how does that work ?	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	let's see. suppose a land, fertile but unimproved. to get anything, you have to actually get it.	[15:40]
mircea_popescu	we know this does promote all the industries - people will hunt and make farms, and then need lumber and tv sets.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	suppose now a desert with small pellet dispensers, where a little food can be had.	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	we know this promotes all the africas - people will sit around and invent ways to insure they don't upset the gods.	[15:41]
ascii_butugychag	ensure?	[15:41]
mircea_popescu	myeah	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	both, really, but myeah.	[15:42]
ascii_butugychag	and farmers do their share of 'must not upset the gods'	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	there is necessarily no ensuring "the gods". just you know, transactional insuring 'em.	[15:42]
ascii_butugychag	because land doesn't actually behave so differently from a food dispenser	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	granted.	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	yet the effects of tiny modulation in environment are indisputably major in the mold that grows out	[15:43]
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ascii_butugychag	i'd conjecture that 'africanization' is at its height when the 'food dispenser' ~responds to human buluceala'	[15:44]
ascii_butugychag	~	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	and here it does.	[15:44]
ascii_butugychag	(it isn't about whether the pellets are small, as in a zoo, or large, as in a harvest season - but that zoo ~answeres prayers~ and rewards wheedling)	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	the size of the pellet is imo the important part.	[15:45]
ascii_butugychag	how so ?	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	consider. the first major invention that "revolutionized" mankind was... agriculture. it reduced the societal bolus from "whole bison, if you get it" to "a fraction of a crop, if you well save it".	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	this reduction similarly took the world from greece to rome, give or take.	[15:46]
thestringpuller	;;ticker	[15:47]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 382.58, Best ask: 382.82, Bid-ask spread: 0.24000, Last trade: 382.6, 24 hour volume: 46720.82048297, 24 hour low: 378.77, 24 hour high: 414.49, 24 hour vwap: None	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	or if you prefer, from sioux to irish.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	the next one, actual industry, reduced the bolus further (the chinese never developed industry because yes, their goverment had already reduced it to "one bowl of rice")	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	degradation of society generally follows the success of technology in reducing the size of the minimal harvest.	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	which is why we're to expect all sorts of wonders from micropayments ; all of which wonders begin and end with caged ratpeople.	[15:48]
ascii_butugychag	small pellet leads to thinking of next pellet always. as in the professor who described to me how crack is smoked	[15:49]
ascii_butugychag	this makes sense.	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	more importantly, small pellet makes it LESS important to live.	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	the hunter didn't fear death ; the farmer feared death only, not drudgery ; the factory worker can't even think death, fears drudgery, not anonymity.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	then finally the "literate" or "white collar" or however you call the despicable postmodern otaku, intellectuals I suppose ? can't even comprehend drudgery, fears anonimity, i can scarcely look down to see what's next.	[15:52]
ascii_butugychag	whaddayamean can't comprehend drudgery	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	just that.	[15:52]
ascii_butugychag	we got drudgery on tap	[15:52]
ascii_butugychag	in every godforsaken cube farm tower	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	anyone bothered by it ?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	anyone even seem to notice ?	[15:53]
ascii_butugychag	everybody?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	ha-ha.	[15:53]
ascii_butugychag	why do you suppose just about all of these people kill themselves ?	[15:53]
ascii_butugychag	(usually slowly, with drink etc. but.)	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	i would not presume these people do anything.	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	as the expression goes, "it happened"	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	why does it happen to them that they died ? no one knows, for drudgery can't be thought.	[15:54]
ascii_butugychag	i can readily observe at least a subset of things they choose to do, when i find myself readily able to avoid doing them	[15:54]
ascii_butugychag	ergo they choose to?	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	im not so sure.	[15:54]
ascii_butugychag	for instance, drinking yourself into catatonia every friday is optional	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	to quote, " Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?"	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	what's your model for optionality ?	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	for me and for the waitress, showing up at the restaurant is optional, right ? and so it is for the cat.	[15:56]
ascii_butugychag	for eater - optional	[15:56]
ascii_butugychag	for waitress and cat - perhaps less so ?	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	well, you'll need a model.	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	maybe for cat most of all. how about the beef ?	[15:57]
ascii_butugychag	the beef is not a playing character...	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	but the waitress is ?	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	why, cuz you never fucked a cow ?	[15:57]
ascii_butugychag	is, if only residually	[15:57]
ascii_butugychag	i must admit this glaring omission. i have not.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	how about a waitress ?	[15:58]
ascii_butugychag	approxim.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	well then, that explains it :D	[15:58]
ascii_butugychag	but i find a good bit of what these people do to themselves to be readily optional, at least in the sense that eating one's nagant is optional	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	"the beef is not a playing character for not having escaped from its pen ; the waitress is a playing character for not having escaped from its pen." << shall need some more sandbags. why hate the cow, what, if you prick it does it not bleed ?	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	if you poison it, does it not die ?	[16:01]
ascii_butugychag	i've never seen a human woman land by mistake in a cow pen and end up processed for beef	[16:01]
ascii_butugychag	while i have seen thinking people end up waiting tables etc	[16:02]
ascii_butugychag	wasn't it in mircea_popescu's recent article where 'common man must be pumped through a sewer tunnel but oughta have a small escape hatch' ?	[16:02]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	yeah, well, as a matter of fact some cows do make it out!	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/67793636.jpg << cow cowrdashian	[16:04]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb4uOI )	[16:04]
thestringpuller	"Apollo astronauts called their urine dumps "The Constellation Urion" and said it was very beautiful."	[16:06]
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*	assbot gives voice to deedbot-	[16:07]
thestringpuller	latest from the gavin-stooge: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/426nee/ambitious_protocol_limits/	[16:09]
trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt	[16:09]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )	[16:09]
thestringpuller	SMTP's limit is 99mn terabytes!!!! Why do we need limit on blocksize guise?!?!?	[16:09]
punkman	https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000603cba76274b479a7507ef9585518b06e192f1a6255b5b8 cool mil in this block	[16:09]
assbot	Bitcoin Block #394456 ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSXMi )	[16:09]
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*	assbot gives voice to deedbot-	[16:12]
trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt	[16:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )	[16:12]
punkman	https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/01/19/more-u-s-military-drones-are-crashing-than-ever-as-new-problems-emerge/	[16:17]
assbot	More Air Force drones are crashing than ever as mysterious new problems emerge - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb6qH9 )	[16:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80150 @ 0.00056996 = 45.6823 BTC [+] {4}	[16:21]
trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt	[16:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )	[16:21]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[16:21]
trinque	cool.	[16:21]
*	assbot gives voice to deedbot-	[16:22]
trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt	[16:22]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )	[16:22]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[16:22]
trinque	deedbot-: wb.	[16:22]
trinque	deedbot-: !services	[16:22]
trinque	!services	[16:23]
thestringpuller	Ugh. Can Roger Ver just go the fuck away, this prick is more of a douchebag than Weev.	[16:23]
thestringpuller	"I'm against war, but I love selling guns."	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	gavin is not very itnelligent, is he.	[16:23]
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thestringpuller	seems evoorhees is no better	[16:43]
thestringpuller	he's basically on reddit wanting Core to become bitcoin politicians	[16:43]
thestringpuller	so now he's gone from being bitcoin businessman to bitcoin politician	[16:43]
thestringpuller	everyone wants to be in office!	[16:43]
BingoBoingo	When we got our snow earier this week I was the only person the on our street civilized enough to shovel his drive way. Now that there's been a few days for it to melt and refreeze neighbors are complaining they can't get into or out of theirs because they've become too slick. Also precious few sidewalks have been shoveled in town.	[16:47]
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punkman	!up drnet	[16:54]
*	assbot gives voice to drnet	[16:54]
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*	assbot gives voice to funkenstein_	[17:25]
funkenstein_	BingoBoingo, nordic system looking better and better innit?	[17:26]
BingoBoingo	funkenstein_: Not really	[17:26]
funkenstein_	how else you gonna get around in the winter?	[17:26]
funkenstein_	pin to win	[17:27]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo sucks huh.	[17:29]
BingoBoingo	Usually get around with car in winter, sufficient wild snowplows here	[17:48]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Used to not be this way. Sometime 10-15 years ago the torts think scared people out of taking responsibility for clearing winter weather	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	either that or sheer lazy.	[17:49]
BingoBoingo	The tort justifies the lazy	[17:49]
*	mircea_popescu recalls enjoying doing it, the one year he ended up seriously snowed upon	[17:49]
BingoBoingo	It's not spectualarly fun, but its a way to be outside in the cold without feeling cold	[17:50]
BingoBoingo	What I don't get though is the people so lazy they won't do their own driveway and end up housebound three days after the last snow falls	[17:51]
BingoBoingo	We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	i got a foot an a half.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	and then by the time i cleared it, there was a slight melt an d i got a futher two tons off the roof.	[17:53]
BingoBoingo	Ah, the big snows are much more fun. Only been through a couple snows between 18-24 inches.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	gives you plenty of time to practice jr high maths.	[17:56]
BingoBoingo	Also when done a well earned sense of superiority over other locals who are less accomplished in the clearing	[17:56]
*	PeterL (~PeterL@unaffiliated/peterl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	true.	[18:00]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37495 @ 0.00056658 = 21.2439 BTC [-] {3}	[18:06]
mircea_popescu	and speaking of toilet bowls, http://41.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg	[18:13]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nEllPO )	[18:13]
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mircea_popescu	;;nethash	[18:14]
gribble	856935770.399	[18:14]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[18:15]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[18:17]
gribble	Current Blocks: 394516 \| Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 \| Next Difficulty In: 619 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes, and 22 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[18:17]
*	PeterL has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[18:18]
BingoBoingo	http://trilema.com/2013/the-bitchslapping-of-2013/ seems awfully prescient as now Erik seeks to appease all the pinoy spamzors https://archive.is/aQX5h	[18:22]
assbot	The bitchslapping of 2013... on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEmNl5 )	[18:22]
assbot	IMHO, BTC price will be weak until Core demonstrates competency in social consensus. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEmNBD )	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	opinions being like assholes, whether humble or not.	[18:23]
BingoBoingo	"Unlike me, Erik tries to be nice, to everyone, all the time. The downside of his approach is that he is treated like dirt, by everyone. Not every time, but every time it actually matters. (You are invited to review the logs of the #bitcoin-dev channel [cached] and make up your own mind on the subject.) "	[18:23]
*	BingoBoingo definitely bullish on 2013 flashbacks this year	[18:24]
*	BingoBoingo waits for flashbacks to http://trilema.com/2013/strategic-superiority-the-saga-continues/	[18:27]
assbot	Strategic superiority - the saga continues on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEnpam )	[18:27]
pete_dushenski	;;later tell ben_vulpes i'd avoid all chrysler products (including jeep) like the plague. land cruiser/4runner, tahoe/suburban, and explorer/expedition are all worth considering and all fit the "mega-suv with low tco and reasonable maintenance prospects for an american family" niche. that being said, you'd probably be just as well, if not better, served by the 00-06 escape or 97-02 cr-v, both of which should be quiet	[18:28]
pete_dushenski	easier to park, better on fuel, and have lower tco. whichever way you go, driving them each and finding a used car with known providence (receipts!) are the two most important factors.	[18:28]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[18:28]
pete_dushenski	for those at home, tco = true cost to own	[18:28]
BingoBoingo	Ah, yes. J.e.e.p. Just empty every pocket	[18:30]
BingoBoingo	Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"	[18:32]
pete_dushenski	magnum r/t for sure. probably less than $10k for a decent one.	[18:34]
pete_dushenski	chrysler has definitely taken the crown of "piece of cobbled together shit that only lasts as long as you're making payments on it", which fiat had through the 80s. fitting that fiat came back to north america in 2012 under chrysler proprietorship, really.	[18:36]
BingoBoingo	Meatspace friend had boring v6 one for a while. Beat it all to hell then "upgraded" to one of the daewoo crossovers rebadged as a chevy.	[18:36]
BingoBoingo	He mentioned not missing the covetous looks he got driving the magnum around the city	[18:37]
pete_dushenski	aha. the lulz of an "american" truck or car being designed and built in the firstest bestest southest korea. truly one of america's most glorious embarrassments.	[18:39]
pete_dushenski	http://dodgeforum.com/articles/dodge-charger-and-challenger-among-americas-most-stolen-cars/ << lel. til.	[18:40]
assbot	Dodge Charger and Challenger among America’s most stolen cars - DodgeForum.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEp1kx )	[18:40]
BingoBoingo	I mean it was understandable when they did it with the Aveo because they wanted a bottom end car to scare people into buying up.	[18:40]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:41]
pete_dushenski	the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"	[18:41]
pete_dushenski	it's like the most believable pick-up line in the hood : "i'd pick you up at 8, hun, but my charger srt8 got stolen last week and i'm still trying to track down the basterds who dun it."	[18:42]
pete_dushenski	maybe this works ?	[18:42]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: the only problem with that aveo theory is that... it was better than the cobalt.	[18:43]
pete_dushenski	or at least just as terrible	[18:44]
pete_dushenski	for 5k less	[18:44]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: A lot of the charger/etc thefts are from rental agencies	[18:45]
BingoBoingo	The aveo and cobalt were different kinds of terrible	[18:45]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381533 << wtf is that	[18:46]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:10:19; mircea_popescu: and speaking of toilet bowls, http://41.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg	[18:46]
pete_dushenski	breakfast wut	[18:47]
asciilifeform	i mean, what substance	[18:47]
pete_dushenski	sugarpops	[18:47]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: The cobalt was basically a cavalier refresh which was a familiar, dependable kind of shitty. The aveo was an alien kind of suck.	[18:47]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381552 << i never understood this idea - what is wrong with a normal passenger car ? you can fit even 2x as many children as adults in it	[18:48]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:29:45; BingoBoingo: Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"	[18:48]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: and you'd be amazed how many buyers preferred the alien. i sold 10x aveos as cobalts in my day.	[18:48]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Magnum is a good old fashioned station wagon.	[18:48]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: you're not progressive enough to get it	[18:48]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: You also are Canadian. Locally cobalts are common. Aveos are what Chinese restaurant workers drive.	[18:49]
ben_vulpes	thank you pete_dushenski!	[18:49]
asciilifeform	i see this idea, colleagues had children, 'must buy gigantic truck!1111'	[18:49]
asciilifeform	but... why?	[18:49]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: i thought 'progressive' enviro-whinerism would demand a ~smaller~ car	[18:50]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Crash resistance. Truck is only way to get body on frame construction. Also favorable height differential in crash.	[18:50]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381561 << who the everliving fuck ~doesn't~ report the theft? 'oh i don't need the insurance money, just keep it' ?	[18:51]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:39:10; pete_dushenski: the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"	[18:51]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes: avec plaisir :D	[18:51]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: not only are you not a progressive now, but you've clearly never been one either. while it's true that some fall into the 'prius/tesla' camp, others fall into the 'i'd never drive a sedan or wagon because that's what my parents did and that's old-fashioned and/or otherwise bad mkay' camp	[18:53]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: as to thefts, the point of the rape parallel is that the act (of ownership or sex) never actually happened.	[18:54]
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asciilifeform	i dun get it, ~somebody~ had title to the wheeled coffin	[18:55]
asciilifeform	so what does this mean, 'ownership never happened'	[18:55]
asciilifeform	it was on the lot? the dealer (or bank, etc) owned.	[18:55]
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pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: as BingoBoingo points out, that most of the 'thefts' happened on rental lots indicates exactly this. namely, fraud.	[18:56]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: No. Thefts are rentals that just don't get returned. Talked to a couple people who did the scary work of "rental car recovery"	[18:56]
pete_dushenski	or car "disappeared" from and ended up at employee's step-brother's house, "somehow"	[18:57]
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pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: i guess there's that too eh	[18:57]
asciilifeform	l0l	[18:57]
jurov	rental agencies don't report that?	[18:57]
asciilifeform	it is interesting that a zimbabwe would even get to have such a thing as car rental lots.	[18:58]
jurov	!up gabriel_laddel	[18:58]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[18:58]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: What typically was the worst case was car renter took car to region under "sovereign flag" like certain areas of North St Louis that precluded recovery when lojack revealed the car to be there.	[18:58]
pete_dushenski	jurov: sure they do, possibly even over-report.	[18:58]
gabriel_laddel	Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?	[18:58]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Apparently at that point recovery efforts became limited to driving by to verify the car was there and making it insurance company's problem	[18:59]
gabriel_laddel	I found 20 XC6216-2HQ240Cs	[18:59]
gabriel_laddel	Very reasonably priced too.	[18:59]
asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: gonna build own dragonflytron?	[19:00]
pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: bwahaha. "how much does your enemy need to pay you for you to answer the call in his time of need ?"... indeed. why shouldn't "recovery" guys be on the same side as "thieves" ?	[19:01]
gabriel_laddel	asciilifeform: We shall see. I would like to put 8 of them in your hands. S.NSA needs a R&D project.	[19:01]
asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: got six or so 'r&d project' depending on how you count.	[19:01]
gabriel_laddel	Though I'd need to see some designs first..	[19:02]
asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: this one's yours.	[19:02]
asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: try something easy at first, e.g., evolve a bit-counter	[19:02]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Not necessarily on side of theives. Company just did not want life insurance premiums to bankrupt them so placed sane limits on what could be recovered from where.	[19:02]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b78	[19:04]
ben_vulpes	pete_dushenski: know anything about the honda passport model?	[19:04]
pete_dushenski	that it's korean	[19:05]
pete_dushenski	also not sold in canada afaik	[19:05]
ben_vulpes	what does 'korean' mean for build quality and lifetime?	[19:06]
pete_dushenski	very, very bad things.	[19:06]
pete_dushenski	there's a good reason you don't see many 15-20 year old hyundais on the road	[19:06]
ben_vulpes	hm.	[19:07]
asciilifeform	i question that any wheelbox sold now will be on the road in 20 years, even if the road is still there then	[19:07]
ben_vulpes	all the good cars have miserable lines.	[19:07]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: 'sold now' is not under consideration.	[19:07]
pete_dushenski	korean shitboxes tend to rattle and groan like very poorly maintained vacuum cleaners at 15-20 years of age and find themselves in the scrap yard as a result	[19:07]
BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Gas is cheap. Just get a Ford Excursion and be done with it.	[19:07]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes: honda pilot > passenger	[19:09]
BingoBoingo	Just imagine how much bandwidth it would have when full of tapes!	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5403309932.html	[19:09]
assbot	2003 Honda Pilot LX 4WD ... ( http://bit.ly/1KvhBoG )	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	" Will trow set of massa 23inch wheels if pay full price." <<< !!!	[19:09]
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pete_dushenski	hear that ? he'll "trow" in some spangly dubs tooo !!	[19:09]
pete_dushenski	bbias	[19:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95400 @ 0.00056372 = 53.7789 BTC [-]	[19:10]
BingoBoingo	This looks easy on the HODL https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5404505284.html	[19:11]
assbot	2003 Suburban Z71 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KvhSYv )	[19:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.00056398 = 28.0016 BTC [+] {3}	[19:18]
ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: i grew up in a suburban	[19:21]
ben_vulpes	great vans	[19:21]
asciilifeform	living in it?!!	[19:21]
ben_vulpes	certainly felt like it, driving across town to school and back every day.	[19:21]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Bigger than some apartments	[19:21]
BingoBoingo	Can roll the window down and jsut drop a turd on the highway	[19:22]
mod6	my specialty	[19:22]
mod6	'-has a couple songs in the rear bumper' wat?	[19:23]
BingoBoingo	mod6: How can one not want to investigate that mystery?	[19:24]
mod6	right?	[19:24]
BingoBoingo	There's prolly also got to be aftermarket plate armour kits for the thing	[19:25]
*	assbot removes voice from gabriel_laddel	[19:29]
BingoBoingo	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZU3lfeWEAADlIV.jpg	[19:34]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1S03PCx )	[19:34]
BingoBoingo	!up gabriel_laddel	[19:34]
*	assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel	[19:34]
*	gabriel_laddel (~user@unaffiliated/gabriel-laddel/x-9909917) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Killed buffer")	[19:34]
BingoBoingo	https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993	[19:38]
assbot	Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing \| fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvm8ay )	[19:38]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: what is a 'bingo wing' ?	[19:39]
asciilifeform	(mentioned in link)	[19:39]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"	[19:40]
asciilifeform	ugh.	[19:40]
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asciilifeform	for some reason my first thought was the old viking punishment, 'making the bloody eagle'	[19:41]
BingoBoingo	Ah, not yet.	[19:41]
asciilifeform	(evisceration from behind, lungs would flap out the back like wings)	[19:41]
BingoBoingo	Can then hang as trophy like "angel"	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381575 << he likes to shop for shelf stable stuff at sam's club, once or twice a quarter. needs the space.	[19:43]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:45:32; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381552 << i never understood this idea - what is wrong with a normal passenger car ? you can fit even 2x as many children as adults in it	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381586 << not everyone's insured. these are old cars, worth relatively little.	[19:44]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:48:51; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381561 << who the everliving fuck ~doesn't~ report the theft? 'oh i don't need the insurance money, just keep it' ?	[19:44]
asciilifeform	i do similar, with normal car	[19:44]
asciilifeform	the extra space of all but the most gigantic 'suv' is largely illusory	[19:45]
BingoBoingo	But in the most gigantic, overwhelming space	[19:46]
asciilifeform	in garbage truck, yet moar space!11	[19:46]
BingoBoingo	^	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381604 << iirc, recycler.	[19:46]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:56:13; gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?	[19:46]
asciilifeform	(anyone ever throw a party in a converted garbage truck? and then see if guests piss themselves when you show that the hydraulics STILL work ??)	[19:47]
BingoBoingo	lol	[19:47]
BingoBoingo	Will have to remember that if relapse	[19:47]
asciilifeform	i still think 'babywagon' is a constructed meme, like the diamond ring idiocy	[19:54]
BingoBoingo	Well. might actually make sense when children get to school if personally delivering them. May deter other parent's driving aggression if their baby wagon is insuffiecient to take yours in a fight for space.	[19:57]
BingoBoingo	Could also be a reflection of how many 'Muricans go planetary after birth requiring truck suspensions to hold their ass.	[19:58]
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pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381651 << ok i lollered	[20:06]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 22:31:22; BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZU3lfeWEAADlIV.jpg	[20:06]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381663 << obligatory ancient uncle al: 'i sat down the angel on top of the christmas tree... i think... she ~liked~ it!!11'	[20:07]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 22:40:27; BingoBoingo: Can then hang as trophy like "angel"	[20:07]
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pete_dushenski	"Of the 269 Predators purchased by the Air Force since then, about half have been destroyed or badly damaged in accidents, records show." <--> "The Predator has been our most effective weapon in our campaign against the global jihadists,” said Michael G. Vickers, the Pentagon’s former top civilian intelligence official"	[20:09]
*	OneFixt (~OneFixt@unaffiliated/onefixt) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:09]
asciilifeform	what, one wonders, are the stats for other flying machines ?	[20:10]
pete_dushenski	when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.	[20:10]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension	[20:10]
pete_dushenski	not so. a pension is just a promise, a predator costs money today, in today's dollars	[20:11]
asciilifeform	about what a truck costs	[20:11]
pete_dushenski	widow from vietnam can have 350/mo forever, can't afford cauliflower	[20:11]
*	saulimus has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[20:11]
pete_dushenski	$4 mn for a truck ??	[20:12]
asciilifeform	quite possibly. (truck delivered to afghan)	[20:12]
pete_dushenski	see freight costs atm. here to shanghai for the cost of the containers.	[20:12]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: you would be surprised to learn what seemingly pedestrian items cost when purchased on usg dime	[20:12]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: shanghai is a 'special' place.	[20:13]
pete_dushenski	"In March, the Air Force’s program manager for its Reaper fleet filed a report with the Pentagon noting that there had been “a dramatic increase” in starter-generator failures since 2013." <--> "General Atomics spokeswoman Kimberly Kasitz said the firm “stands behind the proven reliability” of the Reaper."	[20:14]
pete_dushenski	this shit's just too lulzy. honestly.	[20:14]
pete_dushenski	i greater display of circuitous wankery one could scarcely imagine.	[20:15]
asciilifeform	l0l perhaps they're using the starters of the same make as in my old 'subaru'.	[20:15]
pete_dushenski	takata ? famous for poor airbags.	[20:16]
asciilifeform	incidentally, what happens to that thing if the starter croaks? how many hours of battery for guidance system	[20:16]
pete_dushenski	"“Once the battery’s gone, the airplane goes stupid and you lose it,” said Col. Brandon Baker, chief of the Air Force’s remotely piloted aircraft capabilities division. “Quite frankly, we don’t have the root cause ironed out just yet.”"	[20:16]
pete_dushenski	^	[20:16]
asciilifeform	l0lzy	[20:16]
pete_dushenski	also, "The Reaper carries an emergency battery backup system. But the batteries last only for about one hour. If a malfunctioning drone needs more time than that to reach an airfield, it is in trouble."	[20:17]
pete_dushenski	this shit's better than usgavin, i swear	[20:17]
asciilifeform	i'ma guess these are built without redundant tandems	[20:17]
asciilifeform	(unlike manned machine)	[20:18]
asciilifeform	~deliberately~.	[20:18]
asciilifeform	they are seen as inventory, to be churned	[20:18]
asciilifeform	like rockets.	[20:18]
pete_dushenski	just imagine the conversation at lizard hitler hq : "sir, we have reports that the bitcoin xtcoreclassic team isn't providing adequate lulz to our enemies at #b-a. we've expended all the resources we had at our disposal and it still isn't enough. they're indefatigable sir!" "send in... the drones. it might not be a perfect plan, but it's all we have right now. at the very least, it'll buy us some time." "right away,	[20:19]
pete_dushenski	lizardliness!"	[20:19]
asciilifeform	recall also that 'predator' et al are not aerial combat machines, but roasting-defenceless-people machines	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[20:20]
asciilifeform	by design.	[20:20]
asciilifeform	they are not built to survive so much as one bullet.	[20:20]
pete_dushenski	relevant : https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*u0cOcOtNDobvT8ZsWzfzXA.png	[20:20]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SacMY1 )	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	much like everything else usg	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	"works fine if you roll over"	[20:20]
asciilifeform	incidentally 'predator' is a very slow machine, a toy chopper could quite likely catch up with it	[20:22]
asciilifeform	quite odd that nobody has yet (afaik) demonstrated this.	[20:22]
asciilifeform	the payload could be as humble as one shotgun round.	[20:23]
pete_dushenski	in lab, no, but the results would seem to support your theory, particularly as heathens with slingshots seem to be picking them off like flies buzzing around yesterday's leftovers	[20:23]
*	NewLiberty (~NewLibert@rrcs-74-87-213-251.west.biz.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:23]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: what makes you think that the heathens have picked them off ?	[20:23]
asciilifeform	the most likely scenario is takeoff/landing 'oopses'	[20:23]
asciilifeform	as with ordinary planes.	[20:23]
pete_dushenski	wait, really ? you think ~half~ of their fleet "had accidents" ?	[20:24]
asciilifeform	aha.	[20:24]
pete_dushenski	like they're some kind of total ceo ?	[20:24]
asciilifeform	recall also the other kind of usgistic accident, as with the car rental lots,	[20:24]
asciilifeform	'i want a new one. let's oops this'	[20:24]
pete_dushenski	i'm not persuaded that the front-line gameboyers think that there's an unlimited supply of these machines.	[20:25]
asciilifeform	sorta like a fella i once knew who had a 'new computer if this one dies' warranty, and had a handy electrostatic wand'o'death he built for new-computer-gettin'	[20:25]
pete_dushenski	what if you break xbox... and it was last one ?	[20:25]
pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: lol.	[20:25]
asciilifeform	what if you break yer paycheque and it were the last one...	[20:25]
asciilifeform	nobody thinks this.	[20:25]
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*	pete_dushenski wasn't raised by wolves, can't confirm	[20:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168000 @ 0.0005599 = 94.0632 BTC [-] {4}	[20:38]
*	polarbeard (~polarbear@unaffiliated/polarbeard) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:39]
asciilifeform	!up polarbeard	[20:39]
*	assbot gives voice to polarbeard	[20:39]
polarbeard	hi	[20:39]
asciilifeform	who might you be, polarbeard ?	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	ello	[20:39]
polarbeard	I don't know if you'll find this interesting or horrible :)	[20:39]
polarbeard	but I'll share anyway	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381658 << i went to a bingo hall for the first time in my life recently. made it for like half an hour. mostly in dazed bewilderment that people actually DO this.	[20:40]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 22:37:55; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"	[20:40]
polarbeard	I've been toying with trb's building scripts, and I've managed to do a whole build, including sig verification and pressing by generating a makefile	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches.	[20:40]
polarbeard	look here: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942	[20:40]
assbot	Makefile · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaebxK )	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	apparently someone does this voluntarily! i expect to see prison camps next!	[20:40]
polarbeard	the makefile there is generated from the script on top	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard good for you. now get in the wot.	[20:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no more astonishing than the fact that folks played, e.g., 'everquest', voluntarily	[20:41]
polarbeard	I'm there	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	at least that's with graphics	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	!rate polarbeard 1 Managed a V press.	[20:41]
polarbeard	but unrated	[20:41]
assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e0b87e28121f253c	[20:41]
polarbeard	thx	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.polarbeard.1:8a5bdee1eb6f2d33a59c6a5c2f83bc35d2934888e7e09fc6c99cbe2480d8c241	[20:42]
assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for polarbeard with note: Managed a V press.	[20:42]
polarbeard	I'll stay around	[20:42]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: how did you come upon your interest in trb ?	[20:42]
polarbeard	we have similar interests, for what I read in the public log	[20:43]
polarbeard	and is nice that you cleaned it up	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	actually that's a neat little script. what dja think trinque mod6 ?	[20:43]
trinque	polarbeard: I posted some makefiles to the ML recently. How does what you've done here compare to it?	[20:43]
mircea_popescu	similar, maybe shorter.	[20:44]
polarbeard	trinque: I used your makefiles to build the script actually, you sped up the process :)	[20:44]
polarbeard	this script generates a single makefile to verify, press and build, without using v	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	to look at that press enum... shit you people've been busy.	[20:45]
trinque	polarbeard: cool man. I'll read it in detail later this evening.	[20:45]
asciilifeform	press enum ?	[20:46]
polarbeard	thanks! is still under heavy testing, but it works	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he included a test suite, and a list of its outputs, which is impressive.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	see L 170>	[20:47]
asciilifeform	neato except for the 32bit key fps	[20:47]
asciilifeform	those need fixin'	[20:47]
asciilifeform	(ln. 186-7)	[20:48]
polarbeard	oh, yep	[20:48]
polarbeard	those will not be imported if you already have them	[20:48]
polarbeard	but right	[20:48]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: in case you did not know, you can browse the almost-current trb using www browser, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected	[20:49]
assbot	Satoshi asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaeKaR )	[20:49]
asciilifeform	very helpful for wrapping one's head around.	[20:50]
polarbeard	asciilifeform: bookmarked, thx	[20:50]
asciilifeform	likewise mod6's chart: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html	[20:50]
assbot	VPATCH_GRAPH ... ( http://bit.ly/1KdVBAp )	[20:50]
asciilifeform	^ it is mechanically generated but not yet in real time	[20:50]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: you can click on the patches and see exactly what has changed.	[20:51]
polarbeard	neat	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	so why would we find this horrible ?	[20:52]
polarbeard	because you built v in first place	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	well yes but for this reason afaiu.	[20:53]
polarbeard	yep, this is quite experimental anyway, I don't know make's limits	[20:54]
polarbeard	maybe if you feed it too much targets i'll die	[20:54]
polarbeard	*it	[20:54]
jurov	lol	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	that'd be a sight.	[20:55]
jurov	!b 4	[20:55]
assbot	Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/08RVY1R.txt )	[20:55]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: what do the 'hunks' do ?	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	"make has a 100000 targets limit written into the code"	[20:55]
polarbeard	after verifying, patches are split into hunks	[20:55]
polarbeard	so make can resolve them	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	uh	[20:55]
asciilifeform	why?	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	look at that, it's like we're back to .rar torrents.	[20:56]
polarbeard	why split or why make has to resolve them?	[20:56]
asciilifeform	why the latter	[20:57]
asciilifeform	v is guaranteed to apply all vpatches in the correct order.	[20:57]
polarbeard	there is no v	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381687 << the definition of "effective" under which he operates is both peculiar and self-defeating. he wants to get something (in this case, anything, whatsoever) for nothing (in this case, no casualties, the one thing usg can't afford is coffins). so in that sense, his insanity is sensible.	[20:58]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:35; pete_dushenski: when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he wrote a makefile maker	[20:58]
polarbeard	it helps with parallelization but there was another reason I forgot	[20:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i can see this	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	so technically it doesn't need the v once the output has been generated.	[20:58]
asciilifeform	i actually considered implementing v this way, and decided against it	[20:58]
mircea_popescu	yes but all possibility space WILL be explored.	[20:59]
asciilifeform	you lose a good bit of important side functionality, and become dependent on a gigantic gnuturd	[20:59]
asciilifeform	(it is bad enough that we rely on gnu diff)	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	well, he wants to find out if he can crash make.	[20:59]
polarbeard	true, it's just an experiment	[20:59]
polarbeard	you get a signable build process though	[20:59]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: right :)	[20:59]
asciilifeform	signable?	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, as per github tradition. if you trust your computer and v implementation, you can sign the output.	[21:00]
asciilifeform	i suppose if a megatonne of hardcoded hashes can be called 'build process'...	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	how do you thinkg everything else that's signed out there is signed ?	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	and rly i should say "As per git tradition"	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	debian was never anything else, etc.	[21:01]
asciilifeform	i'm still not certain why the patches had to be broken down into patchons	[21:01]
polarbeard	its just intermediary state though	[21:01]
mircea_popescu	;;google pat & patachon	[21:01]
gribble	Pat & Patachon by Thomas Staedeli: ; Soundtrack #7 Pat und Patachon \| Eric Frantzen Chor & Orchester ...: ; Pat und Patachon \| Eric Frantzen Chor & Orchester \| Bulimie Song ...:	[21:01]
polarbeard	like it is on memory using v	[21:01]
polarbeard	hunks is generated by the script after verification	[21:02]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: care to give an example of how this was run ?	[21:04]
asciilifeform	let's say i want to press to the latest	[21:05]
polarbeard	you probably need to specify some paths, wot, patches and sigs	[21:05]
polarbeard	and that's it	[21:05]
polarbeard	sigs is what you call seals	[21:05]
polarbeard	you need the diff splitter, splitdiff	[21:05]
BingoBoingo	for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches. << Aha, yes. It's like lottery as in person activity.	[21:05]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381690 << nah, they're 2-3 tons at 5-10k a kg. a truck is 5-10 tons at maaaybe a few hundies a kg.	[21:06]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:08:54; asciilifeform: about what a truck costs	[21:06]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: and i notice that this thing relies on grep	[21:06]
polarbeard	from the patchutils package	[21:06]
asciilifeform	ugh	[21:06]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i dunno, it looks more like a job (and a shitty one at that) than entertainment to me.	[21:06]
polarbeard	right, you have to feed all the targets	[21:07]
mircea_popescu	:D	[21:07]
asciilifeform	polarbeard: this is neat, in the sense that an eiffel tower built from toothpicks is neat	[21:07]
polarbeard	that's why I said I don't know wether this will hit make's limits	[21:07]
polarbeard	I know :)	[21:07]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Gotta consider the people wo were playing. "Big prison" is already pretty well engrained into their "living"	[21:08]
asciilifeform	i thought 'bingo' was largely played by children ?!	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform definitely the best introduction i've seen to date, tho. beats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1377854 by quite the margin.	[21:08]
asciilifeform	and folks in insane asylums	[21:08]
assbot	Logged on 19-01-2016 23:27:04; buZz: i am me	[21:08]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Mostly here played by the elderly	[21:09]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i liked 'jinglebutt' introduction	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	tho i suppose some of the gentlemen may prefer swedes.	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	uh... which was that one ?	[21:09]
*	assbot removes voice from polarbeard	[21:09]
asciilifeform	!up polarbeard	[21:09]
*	assbot gives voice to polarbeard	[21:09]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard you can self-voice, say !up to assbot in private.	[21:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it was some chick, you quoted it as 'as the name implies, i am jinglebutt. now remove me from this list' or the like	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	actually, that one reporter wasn't bad, however long ago.	[21:10]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: thanks for the tip	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	i guess ima make a top nao. brb.	[21:11]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[21:25]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 383.64, vol: 14814.48883594 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 388.887, vol: 10333.26836 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 382.56, vol: 62542.28941267 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 352.0, vol: 12.8786204 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 386.2852, vol: 97365.99530000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 384.3099, vol: 519.12550084 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 389.786203978, vol: 69.32396777 \| Volume-weighted last (1 more message)	[21:25]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[21:25]
gribble	average: 384.957436949	[21:25]
deedbot-	[Qntra] NACDL Amicus: Silk Road Warrant Unconstitutional According To 4th Amendment - http://qntra.net/2016/01/nacdl-amicus-silk-road-warrant-unconstitutional-according-to-4th-amendment/	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178377 << oldies but goldies.	[21:27]
assbot	Logged on 26-06-2015 22:00:59; ielo: mircea_popescu, i'm just sick of your shit you've independently claimed like 3 people i know are scammers and your life is literally gossiping on the internet	[21:27]
asciilifeform	who even was that	[21:27]
BingoBoingo	Prolly an Israeli Jew	[21:29]
BingoBoingo	Just judging by demographics	[21:29]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178421 << l0lparticle from linked day in logz	[21:29]
assbot	Logged on 26-06-2015 22:13:17; mircea_popescu: anyway, ascii_field, apparently the dean is asking some questions eh ?	[21:29]
asciilifeform	interesting how this came to nothing.	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	i don't even recall what that was ?	[21:30]
BingoBoingo	U Maryland	[21:30]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it was this, http://trilema.com/2015/on-the-elaine-shi-and-andrew-miller-scam-ring	[21:30]
assbot	On the Elaine Shi and Andrew Miller scam ring on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVkgK )	[21:30]
asciilifeform	https://cs.umd.edu/~amiller << graduated	[21:31]
assbot	Andrew Miller phd@umd ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVtkv )	[21:31]
asciilifeform	no signs of lowering into pederasty	[21:31]
pete_dushenski	except for "Currently on the job market"	[21:32]
asciilifeform	http://elaineshi.com << still employed	[21:32]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVwg8 )	[21:32]
asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: that is implied under 'graduated'	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	myeah. dey doubled down on stupid didn't dey.	[21:33]
asciilifeform	she's teaching at cornell now	[21:33]
asciilifeform	upgraded to junior nomenklatura, apparently.	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not THAT implied. most employers of uni derps are unis.	[21:33]
asciilifeform	crime - pays.	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	yeah, until it doesn't it keeps paying.	[21:33]
asciilifeform	my point is that it went down exactly how i knew it would - dean looked at the books and understood where the payola comes from, and did not ask further questions of anybody.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	nobody throws out $8M in nsf grantola	[21:35]
mircea_popescu	8mn is actually lowish.	[21:35]
asciilifeform	quite enough to feed two derpatronicists and a dozen slave labourers	[21:35]
asciilifeform	and to leave plenty over for the common piggy	[21:35]
asciilifeform	https://www.cs.umd.edu/article/2014/02/elaine-shi-awarded-2014-sloan-research-fellowship << prize winner !!11111	[21:36]
assbot	Elaine Shi Awarded 2014 Sloan Research Fellowship \| UMD Department of Computer Science ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSW1H1 )	[21:36]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: 8MN is par for feeding some classes of derp	[21:36]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758493 << since i'm going through history.	[21:37]
assbot	Logged on 16-07-2014 21:20:07; gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: No one terribly interesting.	[21:37]
asciilifeform	as a former participant in the racket, i will say that 8m - even in ~today~'s watered-down usg - is a princely grant bag.	[21:38]
asciilifeform	quite enough to run a large lab for a year+.	[21:38]
asciilifeform	the other takeaway is that ~nsf~ specifically is a magical thing in that the dean had nothing whatsoever to worry about, even if the grant were for reprocessing babies into lollipops, he would never be answerable for it - washington ~signed~, aha	[21:40]
*	assbot removes voice from polarbeard	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	lol epic logs. "who are you ?" "princessnell sent me"	[21:41]
BingoBoingo	!up polarbeard	[21:42]
*	assbot gives voice to polarbeard	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#597433 << lol is this early danielpbarron ?	[21:42]
asciilifeform	;;google "ken sent me"	[21:42]
assbot	Logged on 01-04-2014 16:55:28; mircea_popescu: who are you ?! and why are you determined to feed my ignore list ?	[21:42]
gribble	Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded - Part 9 - Ken sent me - YouTube: ; Fouk - Ken sent me - YouTube: ; Cosmic Space Jorma - Ken Sent Me - YouTube:	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2014#562094 << lmao.	[21:43]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2014 18:47:15; mircea_popescu: that's maybe what are you doing. who are you ?	[21:43]
pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2014#562097 << heh. dead links.	[21:45]
assbot	Logged on 16-03-2014 18:49:24; datz_: i run https://peercover.com and sponsor http://openxrptalk.com	[21:45]
pete_dushenski	;;seen nubbins`	[21:47]
gribble	nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 weeks, 1 day, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <+mircea_popescu> in other news, chick on okcupid : "porque no me escribis en castellano << they say castellano in peru too, but if i'm not mistaken this is not universal in south america?	[21:47]
pete_dushenski	and then there was one canuckistani	[21:47]
asciilifeform	!s ;;seen nubbins`	[21:47]
assbot	210 results for ';;seen nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%3B%3Bseen+nubbins%60	[21:47]
pete_dushenski	i guess there was the wikidood what was his name...	[21:47]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-12-2015#1336882 << record not yet broken!111	[21:47]
assbot	Logged on 05-12-2015 14:33:39; gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours, 34 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: autographs for only 5 tx fees	[21:47]
BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: From what I understand nubsy occasionally has things to do like reveal laser fraud and print.	[21:48]
pete_dushenski	;;seen mike_c	[21:49]
gribble	mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 35 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	he has a point dun he.	[21:50]
asciilifeform	;;seen artifexd	[21:50]
gribble	artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 39 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 30 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	;;seen fiat500	[21:50]
gribble	fiat500 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: protein with a side of agony	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	ha-HA!	[21:50]
asciilifeform	;;seen moiety	[21:50]
gribble	moiety was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 13 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, and 4 seconds ago: i have to go, it was nice to see yous	[21:50]
pete_dushenski	lol.	[21:50]
pete_dushenski	mike_c has br0ken previous record : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1366012	[21:51]
assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:49:35; gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already	[21:51]
mod6	;;seen vragnaroda	[21:52]
gribble	vragnaroda was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 years, 30 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: I'm American.	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	sheesh	[21:53]
mod6	ikr?	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	and it's still here, you know, four years later.	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck lasts this long on the internet.	[21:54]
mod6	not much	[21:54]
mircea_popescu	back then digg > reddit even.	[21:54]
polarbeard	mircea_popescu: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/server_retired_after_18_years_and_ten_months_beat_that_readers/	[21:55]
assbot	Server retired after 18 years and ten months – beat that, readers! • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1ORItnW )	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	nb.	[21:55]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993 << lotta that dumb shit on okcupid too. "oh how strange, she has 20 pics in the same exact angle"	[21:56]
assbot	Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing \| fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvm8ay )	[21:56]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: OKC is where a lot of fatfishing happens	[21:56]
pete_dushenski	btc-e trading higher than bistamp, which is itself trading higher than bitfinex... don't think i've ever seen that before.	[21:58]
pete_dushenski	must be a blue moon	[21:59]
mircea_popescu	or a red one.	[22:00]
pete_dushenski	soviet moon is best moon	[22:00]
shinohai	o7	[22:01]
pete_dushenski	from the mines : "Make no mistake. Shinola watches are battery-powered, quartz movement watches. They’re not automatics. One could question whether or not a battery-powered watch justifies a $550-$1,000+ price. However, the quartz movements are made by their Swiss partners, Ronda AG, and then are sent to the 30,000 square foot Detroit factory where Shinola created dozens of jobs for Americans. Each Shinola watchmak	[22:01]
pete_dushenski	ndergoes intense, strict training. None of them had any watchmaker experience before. In short, not only did Shinola create jobs, they gave Detroit natives the training to do those jobs. That’s a pretty fucking noble cause, if you ask me."	[22:01]
pete_dushenski	who wouldn't want an over-priced timepiece manufactured by hobos ? not ~real~ americans !!!1	[22:01]
mircea_popescu	uh. weren't q&q quartz timepieces like 10-20 bux since forever ?	[22:02]
mircea_popescu	what 500.	[22:02]
pete_dushenski	"made in detroit" (tm) (r)	[22:02]
pete_dushenski	the only major city with rents under $1/sqm lend untold credulity and providence	[22:03]
mircea_popescu	"As for having fat pets, this shows that they have no concept of portion control. An animal will eat anything you put in front of it." << this is nonsense.	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	what is the animal, a pig ?	[22:04]
deedbot-	[Trilema] The top 3 best self-introductions in #bitcoin-assets to date - http://trilema.com/2016/the-top-3-best-self-introductions-in-bitcoin-assets-to-date/	[22:05]
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polarbeard	what an honour	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381724 << if anyone in afghanistan etc were not fully employed in countig rocks and fucking goats thus managing to find their way here, i'd definitely finance a project to fly a quad to a drone and use the old komet trick	[22:11]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:19:28; asciilifeform: quite odd that nobody has yet (afaik) demonstrated this.	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	(photodiode interrupted electic firiing, fly under enemy, boom)	[22:12]
*	assbot removes voice from polarbeard	[22:12]
BingoBoingo	!up polarbeard	[22:13]
*	assbot gives voice to polarbeard	[22:13]
BingoBoingo	polarbeard: You know you can voice yourself now?	[22:13]
polarbeard	yes, thanks	[22:13]
BingoBoingo	!help	[22:16]
assbot	http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot	[22:16]
BingoBoingo	^instructions there	[22:16]
BingoBoingo	!down polarbeard !up thyself	[22:17]
*	assbot removes voice from polarbeard	[22:17]
pete_dushenski	off to the cinema. g'nite !	[22:23]
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mircea_popescu	https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*u0cOcOtNDobvT8ZsWzfzXA.png << this is actually pretty good.	[22:23]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SacMY1 )	[22:23]
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ben_vulpes	woof	[22:29]
ben_vulpes	i think that i hate managing projects.	[22:29]
ben_vulpes	in bezzleland at least.	[22:29]
ben_vulpes	glorified secretarial work.	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	ever seen glengarry glenn ross ?	[22:30]
*	drnet has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	"What are you, you're a secretary, John. Fuck you. That's my message for you."	[22:31]
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ben_vulpes	i have.	[22:32]
ben_vulpes	the salesmen are also entirely interchangeable.	[22:33]
ben_vulpes	except for the ones who are not and who don't want anything to do with my asbestos gloves.	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	then again john was quite a miserable manager.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	all of the defense (you know, picking up when people steal toilet paper), none of the offense, none of the good stuff, like making the team not suck dicks.	[22:35]
ben_vulpes	i don't see the problem with embezzling a reasonable amount of toilet paper. it's a valid business expense, and the staff don't get taxed for it.	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	well, it's your fucking toilet paper and what sort of people are these.	[22:39]
ben_vulpes	hey man i'm just trying to get cash in the kids pockets while paying as little taxes on it as possible	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	tax*	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	sounds ever more like a co-op :D	[22:40]
ben_vulpes	heh	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	funny you should mention that	[22:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49654 @ 0.00055672 = 27.6434 BTC [-] {2}	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	the insane fucking rules around ESOPs. i tell you.	[22:41]
ben_vulpes	wall street and congress got a hold of the notion and now there are all sorts of arcane bezzle-quirements like "must get valued by a state-blessed valutron", "must be investment grade paper" etc.	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	the problem here, and it's a fundamental problem, is that the derps that get employed aren't usually investor grade.	[22:43]
ben_vulpes	ofc not	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons	[22:43]
ben_vulpes	i had to explain how buy-and-hold of non-dividend-paying-stocks the other day wasn't forgoing compounding.	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	the result is that they have to make an endless array of rules to approximate "not entirely fucktarded teen".	[22:43]
ben_vulpes	fucktarded teen still gets hoodwinked with worthless paper regularly.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	they perceive they gotta try.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	the only correct solution is to pay in stock only. you do get alf moaning about his sad fate as an owner of his own fate,	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	but the alternative is drinking straight crazy from a toilet bowl.	[22:45]
ben_vulpes	and as a result, my equitizing the staff is miserably difficult.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	imo you're trying to make a copper-iron thermostable alloy.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	desist.	[22:45]
ben_vulpes	explain the parallel in a little more detail?	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	there is absolutely no reason people who make 30 an hour should own stock ; and if they did it certainly shouldn't be yours.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	their needs (represented by copper in this diagram) and the realities of owning stock in a small venture (represented by iron in same) have very different reactions to a change in financial context (represented as temperature)	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	you're trying to meld two things together that will never, ever stay put as temperature varies.	[22:48]
mircea_popescu	even if through whatever arcana you get it "good enough" for the current context you happen to inhabit, such as your room.	[22:48]
ben_vulpes	i just had the weirdest experience	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	whassat	[22:50]
ben_vulpes	i realized that the shartup bezzletron actually got this right	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	it did.	[22:50]
mircea_popescu	well, better than throwing darts anyway.	[22:50]
ben_vulpes	anyways, thanks for the insight.	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	hey, they don't pay me $infinity + bonuses + golden dirigibles for nothing.	[22:51]
ben_vulpes	lol golden dirigible	[22:52]
ben_vulpes	anyways this place is amazing	[22:53]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	hey, i started low on the dirigible scale.	[22:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00055705 = 15.9595 BTC [+]	[22:53]
ben_vulpes	years of slaving for nuggets of insight once or thrice a quarter	[22:53]
ben_vulpes	i wonder what alf gets out of it, so competent as he is.	[22:53]
ben_vulpes	rubs the wrath itch?	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	yes but see, you get them as you need 'em. lyf.	[22:54]
ben_vulpes	life would be more like you don't get them when you need them.	[22:54]
ben_vulpes	i am now confronted with the difficult question of what the fuck i'm doing even owning my own stock.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	now you are truly welcome.	[22:59]
ben_vulpes	relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?	[23:00]
ben_vulpes	clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.	[23:00]
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asciilifeform	brunel was in the up elevator	[23:06]
ben_vulpes	what is this 'up elevator'	[23:06]
asciilifeform	as was, e.g., tesla	[23:06]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: living in a rising, rather than falling, empire	[23:06]
ben_vulpes	ah	[23:07]
ben_vulpes	well that's novel and depressing	[23:07]
asciilifeform	rewards slightly different sorts of folk	[23:07]
*	asciilifeform reads thread, and falls down, srsly, ben_vulpes pays his monkeyz stock ?	[23:09]
asciilifeform	why?!	[23:09]
ben_vulpes	lol you didn't read the thread didja	[23:09]
ben_vulpes	toilet paper, and i ain't talkin equity!	[23:10]
asciilifeform	something about tax dodges, aha	[23:10]
asciilifeform	'clever was the turkey, but ended in the soup anyway'	[23:10]
asciilifeform	(tm) (r)	[23:10]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381525 << same exact story here. californians and it only happens once per year.	[23:10]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 20:50:17; BingoBoingo: We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily	[23:10]
ben_vulpes	well it doesn't actually work, asciilifeform	[23:10]
ben_vulpes	apparently i'm so scary i'm the only one taking the wine^H^H^H^Htoilet paper home	[23:11]
asciilifeform	oh and you're not running a proper sov-collapse shop until the workers have to bring own shitpaper	[23:12]
ben_vulpes	dude heaven forfend	[23:12]
ben_vulpes	i can see it though	[23:13]
asciilifeform	there are tales of truck stops in finland being picked clean, early '90s, even of fixtures like mirrors and toilet paper ~holders~, for a while. then they were re-equipped sov-style to have nothing worth taking	[23:14]
ben_vulpes	heh	[23:15]
asciilifeform	in a sufficiently intense collapse one might expect the toilets themselves to disappear, eventually	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	good old anemic hand dryers	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	"wipe your hands on your pants, plebe"	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	it's good for the envirowhatever	[23:15]
ben_vulpes	(tr) (m)	[23:15]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382055 << you kill the queen of the hive and eat the royal jelly. this gives you five extra appendages, with which to kill other pretenders, and +5 vorpal sword of virility, and a +3 willpower.	[23:17]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 01:57:53; ben_vulpes: relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?	[23:17]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381924 << yes and I'm glad I had the sense to stfu after that line	[23:17]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 00:39:42; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#597433 << lol is this early danielpbarron ?	[23:17]
ben_vulpes	wow	[23:18]
ben_vulpes	time flies	[23:18]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382021 << around here, there is no shortage of 500k/y,50y.o. mortgaged to the hilt, who would die ~faster than i would~ if income cut to 0	[23:19]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 01:40:55; mircea_popescu: they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons	[23:19]
asciilifeform	a 500k/y chump is just a slightly higher-powered chump	[23:20]
asciilifeform	and by no automagic means 'investor-grade' humanoid.	[23:20]
asciilifeform	he ~could~ put the 500 in his pocket instead of mortgaging his anal virginity to a 10m cardboard 'house'.	[23:21]
asciilifeform	BUT these folks are typically 'bred to be eaten', heavily selected in the first place for the kind of behaviours that preclude 500k-in-pocket.	[23:21]
asciilifeform	at least here in the reservation, this is so.	[23:21]
asciilifeform	also	[23:23]
asciilifeform	also i am quite amused thinking about how ben_vulpes quasi-offered me work in a shop where the toilet paper is supposed to be an appealing perk	[23:23]
ben_vulpes	again with the not reading the threads omg!	[23:23]
asciilifeform	what did i miss now.	[23:24]
ben_vulpes	'tis in the logs.	[23:24]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382067 << do i misinterpret this ?	[23:25]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:07:25; ben_vulpes: toilet paper, and i ain't talkin equity!	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	yes. that's a joke about stock in startups.	[23:25]
asciilifeform	ok so you ~were~ speaking of stock.	[23:26]
ben_vulpes	i was talking about several things!	[23:26]
asciilifeform	re: paying non-investorgrade folks (as in, people who need to ~work to eat~) in stock, do you know the soviet voucher story ?	[23:27]
ben_vulpes	no, go on	[23:27]
asciilifeform	!s privatization	[23:27]
assbot	12 results for 'privatization' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=privatization	[23:27]
asciilifeform	de-sovietized affairs of all kinds, from oil&gas to factories, etc. were turned into stock, 'vouchers', parcelled out among the peeeeeple	[23:28]
asciilifeform	and pretty much all ended up sold for nanopennies	[23:28]
asciilifeform	so that folks could eat a little in the hungry '90s	[23:28]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381688 << 'tis just a step on the road to the obvious solution of entirely disposable versions of all the above	[23:28]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:57; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension	[23:28]
asciilifeform	... ditto the flats, which were now owned by the residents, making 'insta-millionaires'	[23:29]
asciilifeform	but somehow most ended up bought up by folks who didn't have to worry about eatin'	[23:29]
asciilifeform	and now the rest, pay them rent.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	mega-unsurprise	[23:29]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-05-2014#654954 << see also.	[23:30]
assbot	Logged on 02-05-2014 03:15:33; asciilifeform: basic course on russian privatization. 'your formerly state-issued flat is now yours. you are a millionaire!' - 'neato. but my salary hasn't been paid in a year. gotta buy something to eat. what does dinner cost?' - 'half a million.'	[23:30]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381723 << which is mind-boggling given the thing has a what turbofan?	[23:30]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:19:18; asciilifeform: incidentally 'predator' is a very slow machine, a toy chopper could quite likely catch up with it	[23:30]
asciilifeform	thing is also large and draggy	[23:31]
ben_vulpes	we have yet to arrive at state-issued flats for all but the most deeeeeserving of poor.	[23:31]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: japanese for-placement-only netdrones could probably snag one	[23:31]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: and not actually similar, even where exist. american 'sec 8' leprosoria are not in any sense whatsoever owned by the inhabitants	[23:31]
asciilifeform	whereas sov flat inhabitant could only be dislodged by death or prison term	[23:32]
asciilifeform	a much stronger ownership than ANYBODY in usa has of ANY real estate	[23:32]
ben_vulpes	https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942#file-buildgen-L30 << enough with the aligned shits	[23:33]
assbot	Makefile · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1K1WJKy )	[23:33]
ben_vulpes	you can smell the users of fashionable editors a mile away	[23:33]
ben_vulpes	i'd wager this one uses Atom	[23:33]
ben_vulpes	or Sublime Dicks	[23:33]
asciilifeform	bawawhat	[23:33]
asciilifeform	i thought 'atom' was a www syndicatron thing	[23:34]
asciilifeform	sublime dicks, on the other hand, is mega-popular for some reason, colleagues had it and i lullzed seeing the nag popup interrupt their session	[23:34]
ben_vulpes	some "we're going to revolutionize editing text by pretending emacs was never a thing"	[23:35]
ben_vulpes	lol over there too?	[23:35]
ben_vulpes	i routinely mock users who have the escape wired into their brains	[23:35]
asciilifeform	emacs is a thick enough, barbed enough broomstick, that this is not hard to pull off	[23:35]
ben_vulpes	"what, can't afford 10 dollars for your text editor?"	[23:35]
ben_vulpes	(or two man-years, yes)	[23:35]
asciilifeform	doubly lulzy when you're all pro re folks who 'ida' all day long	[23:36]
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asciilifeform	and too lazy to bust the idiot nagware	[23:36]
ben_vulpes	the mind, it doth boggle.	[23:36]
*	assbot gives voice to polarbeard	[23:36]
polarbeard	lol, sublime	[23:36]
polarbeard	I use the only and true editor	[23:36]
asciilifeform	'ed' ?	[23:37]
ben_vulpes	nano!	[23:37]
polarbeard	notepad.exe	[23:37]
ben_vulpes	editor of the dirigible	[23:37]
asciilifeform	pair'o'wirez+teeth	[23:37]
ben_vulpes	electron beam and a good set of sights	[23:37]
polarbeard	aggresive looks to the keyboard	[23:37]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381809 << what? no.	[23:38]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:52:58; polarbeard: after verifying, patches are split into hunks	[23:38]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381817 << what? what?!	[23:38]
assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:55:19; polarbeard: there is no v	[23:38]
*	samO has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:38]
polarbeard	again, hunks = intermediate state	[23:39]
ben_vulpes	why.	[23:39]
*	samO__ (~samO@unaffiliated/samo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:39]
polarbeard	the script is 300 lines, not hard to review	[23:39]
polarbeard	again, experiments, do not use	[23:39]
ben_vulpes	if so easy to review, similarly easy to explain.	[23:40]
polarbeard	ask	[23:40]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381849 << more dependencies, and again i ask /why/	[23:40]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 00:03:11; polarbeard: you need the diff splitter, splitdiff	[23:40]
ben_vulpes	why?	[23:40]
polarbeard	make is a build tool, it can build the press	[23:40]
asciilifeform	i read the whole thing, still can't figure out the 'why'	[23:40]
polarbeard	why implementing toposort for the nth time	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	why split the patches, polarbeard, quit dodging the question.	[23:41]
polarbeard	linear dependencies	[23:41]
asciilifeform	wait till polarbeard finds out what ~else~ we intend to implement for the n+1th time	[23:41]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381913 << and that's eating the capital of all sins	[23:42]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 00:33:02; asciilifeform: and to leave plenty over for the common piggy	[23:42]
ben_vulpes	polarbeard: should reimplementing toposort be impossibly painful for you...	[23:42]
*	samO_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:42]
polarbeard	lol, k	[23:42]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: folks who have enough capital to eat the drawn dividends, eat that, and never eat capital. the rest of us, eat whatever falls into the hopper	[23:42]
asciilifeform	see the su privatization thread again, if this does not make sense.	[23:43]
ben_vulpes	polarbeard: look at my contribution history. it is very nearly 100% reimplementations of that which asciilifeform or mod6 or trinque have written first.	[23:43]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i care not why whoever sins however.	[23:43]
ben_vulpes	whomever?	[23:44]
*	ben_vulpes is the undereducated american today as every day	[23:44]
asciilifeform	i can't speak for ben_vulpes, but the idea that folks who what they do for some explicable reason, rather than because of daemonic possession, was - imho - an advance.	[23:44]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: in reference to?	[23:45]
asciilifeform	in re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382183	[23:45]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:40:39; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i care not why whoever sins however.	[23:45]
ben_vulpes	oh, whichever sins?	[23:45]
ben_vulpes	this is like me giving a shit about what gavin and company do and derp about on reddit.	[23:46]
asciilifeform	the islamic world, for instance, never moved beyond this, and it shows	[23:46]
asciilifeform	'electron moves because allah willed so'	[23:46]
ben_vulpes	the dependency chain of "well i work for satan because i got this useless phd that i got because i had a masters i didn't know what to do with because i got a bachelors that i similarly didn't understand the purpose of because i was told to go to college and" it never fucking ends and i don't really give a shit about the root cause for whatever retardation.	[23:47]
ben_vulpes	and no this is not "electron" this is why did isaac fuck ahmeds goat	[23:47]
ben_vulpes	i literally do not care and the spending of time figuring out why the derps do what they do is best left as an exercise to good men like mister backtick who actually enjoy hanging out on bitcointalk.org all day	[23:48]
ben_vulpes	and for the umpteenth time polarbeard /why/ split the damn patches and introduce a million new dependencies?	[23:48]
polarbeard	what dependencies?	[23:48]
ben_vulpes	"i didn't know any better" is, for the record, an entirely acceptable response.	[23:49]
ben_vulpes	diffsplit	[23:49]
polarbeard	*splitdiff	[23:49]
polarbeard	it's a neat tool	[23:49]
ben_vulpes	but more importantly the patches	[23:50]
polarbeard	I aliased it to 'spliff'	[23:50]
ben_vulpes	why won't you answer that one	[23:50]
polarbeard	linear dependencies, easier to handle	[23:50]
polarbeard	intermediate state is all about optimization	[23:51]
ben_vulpes	violates principles of v, though.	[23:51]
ben_vulpes	this is 'yagni' optimization.	[23:51]
polarbeard	you didn't read the script	[23:51]
ben_vulpes	i have to admit, my eyes glazed over.	[23:51]
ben_vulpes	i saw some turds, asked some questions, am not entirely thrilled with answers.	[23:52]
*	ben_vulpes has now filed reports with whip-crackers, can go home to die in sweet embrace, will be off shortly	[23:52]
ben_vulpes	anyways, interesting thing, polarbeard, perhaps i shall test it some day along side the tools written by people i trust like mod6 and trinque and asciilifeform.	[23:54]
ben_vulpes	in the meantime, try to understand why we use 'v', and why your failure to do so has lead me to stomp on the ground like a petulant child.	[23:55]
ben_vulpes	led*	[23:55]

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