Forum logs for 21 Jan 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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mod6 first low-s tx made it through. [00:12]
mod6 ;;tslb [00:29]
gribble Time since last block: 16 minutes and 57 seconds [00:29]
mod6 wtf is bitcoin classic? [00:38]
mod6 WE have bitcoin "classic", not these pinwheels [00:38]
mod6 if(SHITGNOMES) { char *classic = "manyRadicalDeltasFromPointOfOrigin"; } [00:38]
mod6 ;;tslb [00:39]
gribble Time since last block: 34 seconds [00:39]
mod6 hey waddya know, i've got a block before [00:40]
BingoBoingo sweet [00:41]
mod6 2nd low-s tx went through [00:43]
BingoBoingo From the mines: "Our best hope to get miners to run bitcoin-classic or XT, is to beg super-hard for it." [00:44]
mod6 else { char *classic = "trb"; } [00:44]
BingoBoingo lol [00:46]
mod6 alrighty, 3rd low-S tx made it through [00:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94453 @ 0.00056344 = 53.2186 BTC [+] {3} [00:49]
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mod6 alright, now for the high-S txn [00:57]
mod6 dear lord, i've had like 9 crackers with cheddar today and like 3 mtdews. [00:59]
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mats 1337 [01:02]
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BingoBoingo !b 3 [01:05]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [01:05]
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mod6 haha [01:15]
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mod6 first high-S tx went through o_O [01:25]
BingoBoingo cool [01:28]
mod6 im pretty sure that one was mallated. [01:29]
mod6 my S value spit out into the debug.log isn't contained in the hex data in the tx: DEBUG DER S: 0xBE8E2E74EBE2618A27D50E0A1D02B33BCE8188940AA22967E9E01AD4D140AB0F [01:31]
mod6 but the R value is [01:31]
mod6 DEBUG DER R: 0xB16F69B135317A54C96C0EA8882C295DB05B7BD4598FDE42865983A1AEBB3E63 [01:31]
mod6 [01:31]
assbot ... ( ) [01:31]
BingoBoingo Yeah, the active malleation of transactions that happen to be High-S is a pain. [01:32]
mod6 yeah, but i guess thats to be expected since these three are supposed to all be high-s. [01:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139796 @ 0.00056486 = 78.9652 BTC [+] [01:35]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [01:40]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.43, vol: 24039.42500346 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 416.548, vol: 17276.22672 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 417.26, vol: 84398.47923601999 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 360.0, vol: 15.6217475 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 425.02392, vol: 92889.43150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 418.3225, vol: 793.13561663 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 425.984475, vol: 143.90607164 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [01:40]
BingoBoingo ;;more [01:42]
gribble average: 420.403324341 [01:42]
mod6 this is interesting... that tx '893d003f806a5bce121a71e84c260e7879cb6c5464ef93132c0b79e60ff7ff66' hasn't been confirmed yet [01:47]
mod6 oooo crap forgot to set the fee to 0.001 after restarting. [01:48]
mod6 maybe it'll get picked up eventually. [01:48]
BingoBoingo Just double spend it with a higher fee [01:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62428 @ 0.00056962 = 35.5602 BTC [+] {2} [01:50]
mod6 ok second high-s tx went through [01:51]
mod6 this one looks malleated too [01:52]
mod6 [01:52]
assbot ... ( ) [01:52]
mod6 DEBUG DER R: 0x11E986930067BA31716E2D880F6660ABFC3C7C6927C94E0AF6CB4C0CD6315D5B << is found in hex [01:52]
mod6 DEBUG DER S: 0xC541A295514D6BF4BEF30599DC7F8A18BEC9B6B3F615D94F847AD154D4DCBB45 << is not [01:52]
deedbot- [Qntra] Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover - [01:56]
BingoBoingo ^ Whole post is ReadMoar'd on front page because footnote [01:56]
BingoBoingo But do read post for news on Bitcoin's new All Time High versus Oil [01:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77204 @ 0.00056883 = 43.916 BTC [-] [02:05]
mod6 third high-s tx was malleated also, went through, was confirmed as were previous two [02:13]
mod6 here's my testing notes: [02:16]
assbot ... ( ) [02:16]
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mod6 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review: [02:21]
assbot ... ( ) [02:21]
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BingoBoingo !up cashforbtc [03:08]
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punkman [03:35]
assbot Uber Driver Gets A Free (Unwanted) Interior Car Cleaning - "You've Got Mail!!" - YouTube ... ( ) [03:35]
* assbot removes voice from cashforbtc [03:39]
punkman "The Uber driver was too good of a person and decided to take a cash settlement instead of pressing charges. In his words, "...she was crying (and) said (she) was sorry for everything." I don't want to disclose the amount the driver was paid, but can say he could only use the money to pay his cellphone bill and maybeee his cable bill." [03:41]
punkman not sure who's more despicable now [03:41]
punkman > [03:57]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 02:20:53; assbot: Pay no attention to sky high P/E ratios, outlandish global debt, or market selling restrictions. Continue to transfer your hard earned money to fund managers, like a good citizen. : investing ... ( ) [03:57]
assbot Wife inherited 10 million. We're so lost it's not even funny. : personalfinance ... ( ) [03:57]
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BingoBoingo Anon derp doom talk [04:27]
assbot The U.S. Is At The Center Of The Global Economic Meltdown | Zero Hedge ... ( ) [04:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39550 @ 0.00055845 = 22.0867 BTC [-] [05:02]
BingoBoingo those comments [05:03]
assbot Album hosted on ... ( ) [05:03]
BingoBoingo [05:04]
assbot ... ( ) [05:04]
BingoBoingo same age [05:05]
assbot ... ( ) [05:05]
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punkman [05:41]
assbot Mr. Mean-Spirited: BE MORE LIKE GOD ... ( ) [05:41]
BingoBoingo Looks like some Individuals in the UK are starting to fight back against Obesity [05:55]
assbot Campaigners slam 'extremely worrying' comments blaming young woman for being punched - Mirror Online ... ( ) [05:55]
BingoBoingo [05:58]
assbot 17 year old (!!!) obeast takes fat hate in the face | fatpeoplehate ... ( ) [05:58]
BingoBoingo ^ Mine where found at [05:58]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - "Mad Max: Fury Road" wins Oscar for Best Picture - [06:09]
punkman ;;obip 10000 [06:21]
gribble Bitfinex | The weighted average price of BTC, 10000.0 coins up and down from the spread, is 414.85558 USD. | Data vintage: 0.0051 seconds [06:21]
BingoBoingo The other Toomim presenting his version of history [06:34]
assbot ... ( ) [06:34]
BingoBoingo But basically this Hearnia is painting Janssens and some Obeast named "Marshall Long" as the reasons for the adverserial nature of ClassicCoin. Framing of course because it's what good instruments do so he can try to relevant himself again in six months [06:37]
BingoBoingo Seriously though the Marshall long fellow looks like Gavin ate Gavin [06:40]
BingoBoingo And is attached to a bunch of scams [06:40]
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BingoBoingo "Jonathan Toomim:2016-01-20 07:30:02:oh darn, i already sold my bitcoin to pay for electricity a few days ago..." [06:41]
BingoBoingo Turd's too long to read really. Just try searching it for names and terms that should be in actual discussions about bitcoin and be astounded when they don't show up. [06:45]
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punkman BingoBoingo: *Karpeles ate Gavin [06:58]
BingoBoingo We might actually be underestimating here [06:59]
BingoBoingo Google images suggests a BMI between 55 and 75 [07:00]
BingoBoingo Solidly past the point of rag on a stick [07:01]
punkman [07:03]
assbot ... ( ) [07:03]
copypaste woah woah woah, BMI 55? [07:05]
copypaste surprised anyone at that weight is still alive [07:06]
BingoBoingo copypaste: Apparently you don't Walmart enough [07:07]
copypaste i have a high BMI, but only because my spine collapsed due to my condition which takes many inches off my height. but even then BMI is only 31. [07:07]
BingoBoingo In other news [07:07]
assbot Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover | Qntra ... ( ) [07:07]
copypaste i'm 3'1" [07:07]
BingoBoingo That's reasonable. [07:07]
BingoBoingo You're skeleton's state if it wasn't a fragile mess is a mystery. [07:08]
copypaste indeed [07:09]
BingoBoingo It's one thing to have a condition. It's another thing to have condishuns. [07:09]
copypaste hahaha. yes i know what you mean. [07:09]
BingoBoingo It's not like your bones are failing because you decided to test the limits of normal anatomy by butter huffing your way to 500+ pounds [07:13]
assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 486 @ 0.00263159 = 1.279 BTC [-] [07:14]
BingoBoingo There really ought to be a moral test to get a scooty puff. [07:15]
BingoBoingo A person who lacks the self preservation drive to eat themselves to the mass of two NFL linebackers should have to risk blowing out their knee traversing the walmart. [07:20]
punkman BingoBoingo: anything interesting in the jtoomim logz? [07:29]
punkman [07:50]
assbot Sunny Leone wows web over grilling about porn past - BBC News ... ( ) [07:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59922 @ 0.00055868 = 33.4772 BTC [+] {2} [08:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18930 @ 0.00055927 = 10.587 BTC [+] [09:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87896 @ 0.00056139 = 49.3439 BTC [+] [09:09]
mircea_popescu << >> [09:27]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 02:49:55; BingoBoingo: in other news, bitcoin classic has even fewer nodes than bitcoin xt. who was that guy that was the me of something else again ? << They haven't even released a client publically yet [09:27]
assbot Logged on 12-01-2016 16:57:11; psztorc: So, "bitcoin classic", with a 2 MB blocksize limit, is likely to have >60% hashrate at this time tomorrow. [09:27]
mircea_popescu !rated psztorc [09:27]
assbot You rated user psztorc on 23-Sep-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Has no idea what post-structuralism is. Just like everyone else.. [09:27]
mircea_popescu dude has no fucking idea a) what likely means ; b) what a gentleman's duty is, the next day after emitting in the forum an enormity like that. [09:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63250 @ 0.00056975 = 36.0367 BTC [+] {2} [09:29]
mircea_popescu << yeah. and as i wait, so does the play wait. the itches i get aren't in any sense in my body, for i wash. they're in the body politic, all. [09:29]
assbot Logged on 20-01-2016 18:31:11; ascii_butugychag: but if you have a unique itch somewhere deep in a body cavity, and wait for somebody to come and scratch it ~for you~ - you may wait for a while. [09:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39800 @ 0.0005699 = 22.682 BTC [+] {2} [09:31]
mircea_popescu << because meta disease, right. [09:38]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 02:55:53; BingoBoingo: Prolly something about seeing how much has would actually commit to their dumpster fire [09:38]
mircea_popescu << lol i wonder what'd be left of reddit if kids actually had to show up in school. [09:39]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 03:41:08; BingoBoingo: From the mines: "Our best hope to get miners to run bitcoin-classic or XT, is to beg super-hard for it." [09:39]
mircea_popescu << please no stakhanovist suicides mr. there's been the maximum allowable count of funerals this year. [09:40]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 03:56:07; mod6: dear lord, i've had like 9 crackers with cheddar today and like 3 mtdews. [09:40]
mircea_popescu << yup right you are, it was. [09:40]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 04:26:43; mod6: im pretty sure that one was mallated. [09:40]
mircea_popescu << this reminds me of that "i'll be sober in the morning - you'll still be ugly" line. [09:41]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 04:53:17; deedbot-: [Qntra] Fiat Markets Continue Slide As fiat/BTC Interface Prices Recover - [09:41]
mircea_popescu << may i suggest either sticking with the "comprehensible" in which case say -hiDER -loDER or else go for shortness (i don't think you should) and call it -hs -ls ? this "highs" "lows" thing is worst of both worlds. [09:43]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 05:18:23; mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review: [09:43]
mircea_popescu as we'll forget which fucking high this is. [09:44]
jurov mircea_popescu: afaik DER is just encoding and it's different problem than S value used in signature itself [09:45]
mircea_popescu gah. [09:48]
mircea_popescu dude and he explained it to me once already. i'm like fixated. [09:48]
mircea_popescu mod6 i take it back. it'll have to do, can't be introducing case now. [09:50]
mircea_popescu mod6 why take out - vchSig.clear(); if you re-introduce it later in both branches ? ends up adding a line. [09:50]
mircea_popescu meh ima restate this. [09:51]
mircea_popescu blergh, i don't have the source. [09:56]
mircea_popescu sha512sum init.cpp [09:56]
mircea_popescu ff7009f672bf400a42d1d7afb6e58aaf1c29d9c219fad51c5f17000243a485e92bbb250d3f4bbec3f0717d00fad620c294d537832671f20c0979fb3f1383779b init.cpp [09:56]
mircea_popescu what init.cpp are you working on as an a mod6 ? [09:56]
shinohai morning #bitcoin-assets [09:56]
mircea_popescu (this is prev release, test2) [09:57]
mircea_popescu to try and edit diffs by hand ? to nevermind ? [09:57]
mircea_popescu ah as luck would have it key.h matches. weird. [09:58]
mircea_popescu unsigned char pchSig[10000]; // Can anyone explain why 10`000 ? Enough with the magic numbers already. << for the fucking record. [10:24]
mircea_popescu WHO CODES LIKE THIS [10:25]
copypaste i'll take a guess, seems like it's a signature, and 10k bytes is the expected length [10:28]
copypaste but that seems insanely long [10:28]
copypaste perhaps it's some intermediary for a signature, and the final return will be chopped to say something sane like 64, 128 [10:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this kind of thing is pestilentially common in 1) microshit 2) folks who grew up on it. 'i'll leave a massive space on the stack so not to overflow because i can't count and also can't trust myself to put it in heap and remember to free()' [10:29]
mircea_popescu fuck that shit. [10:30]
mircea_popescu security through "bill gates should be enough to anally satisfy everyone" [10:30]
copypaste (2) is surprisingly common [10:31]
copypaste i've even seen "security patches" where the patch was to make the stack bigger, even though the stack was the right size to begin with [10:31]
asciilifeform i worked with a fella like that [10:31]
copypaste "so as not to overflow" [10:31]
asciilifeform 'if i make it what i think is the right size, it crashes!111' [10:32]
asciilifeform i often wonder, do these folks also have two-metre-wide toilet in the house, so as to not miss ? [10:32]
asciilifeform a garage big enough for a boeing, so as to not hit the walls ? [10:33]
asciilifeform etc. [10:33]
asciilifeform part of the reason why software suxx is that the system appears to be quite forgiving of this kind of intellectual sloth [10:33]
asciilifeform 'what's an extra 10kB' [10:34]
asciilifeform forgives, and forgives, until we have a bitcoind that wants a GB/week of ram [10:34]
asciilifeform << rather than have the statement checking for luser who set both flags high and barfing, why not have two flags, e.g., 'forceS' and 'lowhighS'. [10:39]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 05:18:23; mod6: mircea_popescu ben_vulpes asciilifeform et. al. please review: [10:39]
mircea_popescu motherfucker. [10:41]
mircea_popescu SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus. [10:41]
mircea_popescu WHO DOES THESE THINGS [10:41]
asciilifeform the heathens, who lack emacs ? [10:41]
asciilifeform and others, who edit their shit, who end up forced to use spaces to maintain the width ? [10:42]
asciilifeform idiocy is ~contagious~ [10:42]
asciilifeform i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability [10:42]
asciilifeform and is in fact something lusers are famous for doing - recall the folks which the 'comment commits' and 'formatting fixes' who munge entire projects ? [10:43]
mircea_popescu fuck that, im making a proper file. the diff looks like the end of the fucking world, but hey. [10:43]
mircea_popescu mod6 << in the humble hope that it may serve. [10:46]
assbot dpaste: 2CH23F5 ... ( ) [10:46]
mircea_popescu i've even seen "security patches" where the patch was to make the stack bigger, even though the stack was the right size to begin with << mitigation amirite. [10:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: argh this is painful [10:51]
mircea_popescu i know ;/ [10:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you realize, this is likely the biggest patch so far [10:51]
asciilifeform and almost all of it is whitespace-munging [10:51]
mircea_popescu look, i can't use fucking space allignment. for one thing on some systems i need it 2space and on others 4. [10:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you must do this, the right way is to separate the two [10:52]
mircea_popescu not to even go into all the semantic degradation when you go from 2 separators to just 1. [10:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 1 patch for the meat, another where just munge [10:52]
asciilifeform because the latter can be machine-checked [10:52]
mircea_popescu well, honestly, this wasn't intended as a release candidate, more like a commentary item [10:52]
asciilifeform at least in theory [10:52]
asciilifeform ok [10:52]
mircea_popescu for your convenience ima make one with spaces unmunged, 1 sec. [10:52]
asciilifeform ty. i might actually have the stamina to read that one. [10:53]
asciilifeform fwiw i've deliberately refrained from munging whitespace or even fixing the asinine { } convention used in trb [10:54]
asciilifeform just to minimize touched-line count [10:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform [10:54]
assbot dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( ) [10:55]
asciilifeform because reading patches is serious work, i personally do not even have all that much time and energy these days, and other folks less still. i try to conserve it. [10:55]
asciilifeform neato mircea_popescu. much better ! [10:55]
mircea_popescu i have no idea how i'd in any sense seriously do anything with bs [10:55]
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mircea_popescu yes, conserve. on the other hand, the unknown unknowns : how many people currently simply CAN NOT help because of this ? [10:55]
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asciilifeform because of whitespace ? [10:55]
mircea_popescu bullshit like you know, avboiding the word cunt because it might make it impossible for some developers to contribute isn't worth the time of day [10:56]
mircea_popescu but spaces for tabs is a fucking disability. [10:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform tu quoque ffs! just five minutes ago, you got to see what it does. [10:56]
asciilifeform the spaces thing is just one in 10,001 sad things in a jupiter-sized ball of sad that is trb. [10:57]
mircea_popescu in honesty, without any exaggeration, i would estimate the barrier to contribution that whitespace-for-tab puts in front of me is actually larger than the barrier blindness put in front of chetty. [10:57]
mircea_popescu no joking. [10:57]
mircea_popescu and i can't be the only one. [10:57]
asciilifeform the way this kind of thing is traditionally handled, where i worked, is that you fix the lines you touch. [10:58]
mircea_popescu that's what i did. [10:58]
asciilifeform in the last paste ? [10:58]
mircea_popescu ah. well i fixed the file i touched. [10:59]
mircea_popescu srsly, mixed tab/space indentation in a file is worse than either. [10:59]
asciilifeform btw, [10:59]
asciilifeform + if (fHighS) [10:59]
asciilifeform + if (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) [10:59]
mircea_popescu it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable. [10:59]
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asciilifeform oughtat be [10:59]
asciilifeform if (fHighS && (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0)) [10:59]
asciilifeform your variant is valid c but 'riding with no hands' [11:00]
mircea_popescu technically mod6's variant, i only removed some spurious tails. but i think you're right. [11:00]
asciilifeform generally i like to avoid hastening ulcers if possible [11:00]
asciilifeform << incidentally, ~this~ is what the 'origin' command in my vtron did [11:05]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 12:53:23; mircea_popescu: blergh, i don't have the source. [11:05]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a problem - i should have the source. [11:05]
mircea_popescu ie, it should be the prev release. [11:05]
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asciilifeform ./v o HASH would spit out the relevant vpatch name [11:06]
asciilifeform which you could then press to, and end up with the necessary source. [11:06]
asciilifeform i included this because i have 10,001 copies of the tree and every single one is different and wtf [11:07]
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asciilifeform << anybody want to attempt a reliable translation from heathen tongue ? [11:23]
mircea_popescu in retrospect, i deeply regret not having had the sense of s/ / /g back when i made the original genesis commit. but... who knew the future then, and sopmehow being true to source, providing untouched water seemed more important. heck, maybe it was, and the only reason i get to regret doing it is having done it, which keeps me from the more bitter regret of having done it. [11:43]
mircea_popescu at any rate : maybe it's not too late to fix. what do the lords think about this plan : [11:43]
mircea_popescu that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch. [11:43]
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mircea_popescu !rated mod6 [11:44]
assbot You rated user mod6 on 27-Nov-2014, with a rating of 4, and supplied these additional notes: The cave, age, tace school of thought. Nice work with the Bitcoin Foundation.. [11:44]
mircea_popescu !rate mod6 5 His curative TRB leadership is a shining beacon for the entire Republic. [11:46]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [11:46]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mod6.5:cde99987242f16de77dd84d523f93a0717dc5ed2029031b9ea1c7659e22c45da [11:46]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for mod6 from 4 to 5 with note: His curative TRB leadership is a shining beacon for the entire Republic. [11:46]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: the tab/space thing has infected the source code? [11:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform heathen text seems a summary of the entire "scaling" bitcoin bs. [11:51]
mod6 Mornin' all. [12:12]
mod6 Sorry about the spaces in there where I put in my changes, I can and will fix that for my changes. And yeah, I think post-release it may not be a bad idea to do a one-time-cleanup of all of that. [12:13]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> if (fHighS && (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0)) <+asciilifeform> generally i like to avoid hastening ulcers if possible << yeah, i dont know why I didn't do this to begin with. Heheh. [12:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw i'm heavily in favour of the 'fix only the lines we touch' school of thought. the whole point of pedigreed-vintage trb is that the totality of the changes we made is apparent to the naked eye. [12:15]
asciilifeform this is one of the things that distinguishes trb from heathenb [12:15]
asciilifeform 'your father's pistols' etc [12:16]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> asciilifeform << re: There is no reason to test for both highS and lowS being set, because this is tested in init.cpp already, ... << For some reason I had it in my head that since this gets set in util.h/.cpp that both may become set at some point post execution if someone does something funny. [12:17]
mircea_popescu mod6 you didn't do it because it wasn't in your code, it only appeared once i snipped a bunch [12:17]
assbot dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( ) [12:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i know ;/ [12:17]
mod6 oh hmm. i think i put in some spaces in there. [12:17]
mircea_popescu but ... a specified, machine-verifiable, multi-signed split ? not acceptable ? [12:17]
mod6 also, about : I left the original code in Sign(...) in the } else { case because i thought it be necessary to have a default. if we don't have one, it forces the user to pick -highs -lows every single time they execute. [12:19]
assbot dpaste: 26VKRQG ... ( ) [12:19]
mircea_popescu mod6 this is a point, but really that heathen 10k declaration should go away. [12:20]
mod6 oh i totally agree. its just an old wart. [12:20]
mircea_popescu maybe i'm misreading this, but atm if neither high nor low is picked the code does spit out a sig neh ? [12:20]
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mircea_popescu ie, in my paste. [12:20]
mod6 oh yeah, derp. so in yours it will just skip the compare and if true, subtract sections. [12:22]
mod6 so that should be fine. [12:22]
mod6 does anyone have any pref on the commented out DEBUG statements for the finalized one? just remove them? [12:23]
mod6 yah, i better remove those. [12:23]
mircea_popescu they can stay or go, entirely up to you. [12:23]
mircea_popescu i don't particularly mind commented-out line tests. [12:23]
mod6 thanks for all of your comments this morning. I appreciate everyone taking a look at this one. [12:24]
mircea_popescu if nothing else gives a good idea of what the author was thinking. [12:24]
mircea_popescu actually, forcing a point, commented out line tests is really the first step towards knuth literate coding. [12:25]
mircea_popescu which, incidentally, is not to be taken lightly. it occurs to me, looking at all this, that it has a very fundamental function in maintaining codebases of the KIND that bitcoin is. [12:25]
punkman there's literate and there's littering [12:26]
mircea_popescu specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison) [12:26]
mircea_popescu now, battles as to change are softened : people discuss reformulations OF THE COMMENTARY. [12:26]
mircea_popescu as that changes, changes in code slowly become ever slightly more possible [12:26]
mircea_popescu this is a splendid mechanism to provide true consensus. [12:26]
thestringpuller LOL >> "Don't forget Mr Popescu, who loves to harp on about how Bitcoin is not for the unwashed masses, just two weeks ago had a hugely embarrassing fiasco where he revealed he hadn't the faintest idea how Bitcoin transactions work. [12:27]
mircea_popescu punkman true. hence the 100 lines are the result of numerous different pressures. [12:27]
thestringpuller Like most newbies he thought you spent from addresses rather than prior receipts." [12:27]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> i often wonder, do these folks also have two-metre-wide toilet in the house, so as to not miss ? << i lel'd [12:27]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller we can;'t all be geniuses, can we now. [12:28]
mircea_popescu of course the talmud gets away with an earth shattering bonus : "other rules notwithstanding, the law in any place is what the law always was there". they can afford, somehow, to keep geographically bound chains that are disjunct. we can't. but hey, chosen people, gets advantages. [12:30]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison) << I never thought of it this way. [12:31]
mod6 interesting. [12:31]
mircea_popescu that there should be more comment than code in something like bitcoin source seems an unassailable point, to me. [12:32]
punkman less cryptic variable naming would also be great [12:33]
deedbot- [Trilema] The funny thing about the fallen is that they do not know they fell. - [12:33]
mircea_popescu not a great fan of vchSig and bs myself, eother. [12:33]
mod6 i would agree there, but on the basis that the comments are accurate in a technical sense. nothing worse than misleading comments or documentation, as we've recently discussed. [12:33]
mircea_popescu mod6 absolutely. hence punkman's point re littering. [12:34]
mod6 *nod* [12:34]
punkman problem is, who wants 100 patches with comments only [12:34]
mircea_popescu me. [12:34]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> not a great fan of vchSig and bs myself, eother. << yeah, im not sure why the var name needs to delcare that it is a vector of chars. [12:34]
mircea_popescu i suspect this is also msvc widgetry. [12:34]
mod6 ^ [12:35]
mircea_popescu the problem of tab-spaces is indicative of many similar blessings to come. [12:36]
mircea_popescu once half the variables are in one style and half in three or four other styles etc. [12:36]
mircea_popescu kinda why i insist we must do the "by file touched" rather than "by lines touched" thing. [12:36]
mod6 yeah, valid point. [12:36]
mircea_popescu a file can't mix unlike things. [12:36]
mod6 re: your comment about tabs of width 2 or 4; going forward, I'll use width 4. [12:38]
mircea_popescu huh ? [12:38]
mircea_popescu how are ~you~ going to do anything about it ? i set my machine to show them any way i want. [12:38]
mod6 right right. but I think i put in some spaces in my code there for alignment. just saying, i'll stick to using four. [12:39]
mircea_popescu a yeah. [12:39]
mod6 your patch really is easier to read since leaving in the vchSig.clear() etc at the top instead of moving it to the bottom like mine had. [12:41]
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mod6 many thanks. [12:41]
mircea_popescu eh you're the one should be thanked. [12:41]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> well, honestly, this wasn't intended as a release candidate, more like a commentary item << ok good deal. was kinda wondering if the forthcoming release patch should bundle this one in or not. [12:44]
mircea_popescu well, i do think to some degree your patch should be restated, but not in the sense of replacing it altogether [12:45]
mod6 Was thinking of putting in alf's latest two also -- but I think we need some confirmation on at least the version string one. shinohai was having some snags with it. [12:45]
* mircea_popescu is loath to do too much of that sort, because as correctly pointed out, mircea_popescu is a noob in the low level technical sense. without an array of experts to advise and correct, i'll just fuck everything up. [12:46]
mod6 asciilifeform: not sure if you found some of questions/comments in the log from yesterday re this ^^ [12:46]
asciilifeform wai wut [12:46]
mircea_popescu i also don't fix any of the combustion engines that i own by myself - even if once i took apart and put back together a trabant. [12:47]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> well, i do think to some degree your patch should be restated, but not in the sense of replacing it altogether << yeah, ok. i'll do some work here today / tonight, do a re-test and the hopefully get it to the ML before the week is out. [12:47]
asciilifeform mod6: what was this about 'snags' with the version patch ? [12:47]
mod6 we can discuss this again as we get further along. [12:47]
asciilifeform i can't seem to find it in the logz [12:47]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: what was this about 'snags' with the version patch ? << i'll dig it up, just a sec. [12:47]
thestringpuller Ah this takes the cake: "I had to reload Reddit like 4 times before it started working. If reddit wants me as a customer, they should increase their blocksize" [12:48]
asciilifeform << that particular heathenry has a name, 'hungarian notation'. named after some chap at microshit who believed that it reduces bugs [12:48]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 15:31:59; mircea_popescu: i suspect this is also msvc widgetry. [12:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform im sure there it did. [12:48]
mod6 starts here asciilifeform: [12:49]
assbot Logged on 20-01-2016 23:46:05; shinohai: Also mod6 re: version strings, placing flags first had zero effect so I probably did something wrong. :/ [12:49]
asciilifeform it is sort of like concept that once came to me in a dream, about some alt-world where all names are sexed, and hence nobody is named 'alice', but 'fmalice', no 'bob', but 'malbob' [12:49]
mircea_popescu i don't think the difference was ever stressed enough or for that matter all that well understood. what "big studios" do for software, ie, throwaway crap that's not expected to a) work for everyone or b) work for more than a few years is VERY STRICTLY opposite to what bitcoin does. [12:49]
mircea_popescu just like "AAA titles" and eulora have jack in common, but that's a side point. [12:49]
asciilifeform this seems thermonuclearly obvious [12:49]
asciilifeform to anybody even tangentially involved [12:50]
mircea_popescu to you. [12:50]
asciilifeform l0l [12:50]
mircea_popescu malbob and f-malice. this should be a fucking poem. [12:51]
mircea_popescu it's as poetic as it gets. [12:51]
mod6 heheh [12:51]
asciilifeform mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! because said printf ~precedes~ the setting of the custom string. this may explain shinohai's confusion. [12:51]
mircea_popescu anyway, in ro names are sexed - mircea is the only male name that ends in a. [12:51]
shinohai ah now I understand asciilifeform thx [12:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i've met ro dudes who go by nicknames, e.g., cata (catalin) etc [12:52]
mircea_popescu that's not a, that's a~ [12:52]
asciilifeform ah! [12:52]
mircea_popescu actually the convention is you can take any male name add a and name a girl thus. [12:53]
mircea_popescu hence catalina. [12:53]
thestringpuller catalina [12:53]
asciilifeform <<<< [12:55]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 15:23:26; mircea_popescu: specifically, imagine a future in which every line of code has 100 lines of commentary, much like the talmud (which is a VERY proper comparison) [12:55]
assbot Logged on 18-01-2016 19:16:29; ascii_butugychag: i assume that everybody here has at least seen a page of talmud ? [12:55]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6, shinohai: the version string patch works. BUT you will always see the default version in the boot log!! << personally I haven't even tried this yet. but I think he was saying that he checked the getinfo and that hadn't updated either. [12:55]
mod6 i'll see if i can get to it today, and give it a try myself. [12:56]
mircea_popescu have you eaten mod6 ? [12:56]
mod6 haha no. [12:56]
mircea_popescu go eat. [12:56]
mod6 i am about to eat a decent breakfast in like 1.5 hours. [12:56]
mircea_popescu do not take after me. for even as we speak, the girls are up and chirping in the kitchen making me stuff. [12:56]
mod6 ok, i'm gonna go have an orange. [12:56]
mircea_popescu cool! [12:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite. [12:57]
shinohai mod6 Load up those 7 hookers you spoke of last night and come over. I got lox and eggs. [12:59]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: what are they making you for breakfast? [12:59]
mircea_popescu i have no idea. but it'll include fig bars! [12:59]
mircea_popescu yesterday was smoked salmon, cheeses and cured meats. [12:59]
thestringpuller i wish I knew women that cooked [13:00]
thestringpuller america with it's faux feminism has kinda killed cooking [13:00]
mircea_popescu ironically, none of these knew either. [13:00]
mircea_popescu visiting mother at some point "omaigerd you cook so good!!1" [13:00]
thestringpuller nothing beats good training! (except maybe a good beating) [13:00]
mircea_popescu cooking is actually an artform, indisputably, and readily the easiest to be good at and happy with yourself for. [13:01]
mircea_popescu who gets to eat the clay pot or painting ? [13:01]
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shinohai <<< kek [13:06]
assbot Is anyone else sick of all the bullshit ethereum spam??? : Bitcoin ... ( ) [13:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57168 @ 0.00056956 = 32.5606 BTC [-] [13:12]
mod6 ;;calc 607*2000 [13:26]
gribble 1214000 [13:26]
mod6 it says that during this 'Stakhanovite movement' in the su, this guy Nikita Izotov mined 607 TONS of coal in a single shift. That's ~1M folks. [13:27]
mod6 O_O [13:27]
mircea_popescu meanwhile debunked, but yeah [13:27]
mod6 oh. [13:28]
mircea_popescu it's a by-word for capital-destroying "concerted efforts". [13:28]
mircea_popescu ie, "this cpu normally does 4ghz, i run it at 8. it's doing so much more for me than... oops, it popped. need a new cpu" [13:29]
mod6 makes sense. [13:36]
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mircea_popescu ./uint256.h: static char phexdigit[256] = { 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0xa,0xb,0xc,0xd,0xe,0xf,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0xa,0xb,0xc,0xd,0xe,0xf,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0 }; [13:47]
mircea_popescu da fuck is this maigc. [13:47]
mircea_popescu holy shit the stuff that's in uint256.h ?! [13:50]
mircea_popescu anyone seen this wonder ? [13:50]
assbot dpaste: 1JNBGCX ... ( ) [13:50]
asciilifeform l0l i can't wait till mircea_popescu discovers all of the 'wonders' [13:51]
asciilifeform << ударник (tm) [13:51]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 16:25:12; mircea_popescu: it's a by-word for capital-destroying "concerted efforts". [13:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform prior to the article i'm writing now, i had naively believed the thing is some standard library imported from whenever [13:52]
asciilifeform which thing [13:53]
mircea_popescu uint256.h [13:53]
asciilifeform you will notice that #include "uint256.h" [13:54]
asciilifeform rather than #include [13:54]
mircea_popescu i have meanwhile noticed [13:55]
mircea_popescu i hadn't priorly noticed. what's one to do [13:56]
asciilifeform the whole thing is 99+% crapolade by weight, and nobody sane dares to 'fix what works' because 'father's pistols' [13:56]
mircea_popescu incidentally, did we have a lxr up of the codebase or something ? [13:58]
asciilifeform aha, jurov keeps it [13:58]
asciilifeform [13:58]
assbot Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/ ... ( ) [13:58]
asciilifeform (use the box on the right hand upper corner to switch presses) [13:59]
asciilifeform until recently i used this www for just about all trb study [13:59]
mircea_popescu before i couldn't do merchant of venice because broken tools. now can't because instead going through 10k lines dump to find the junk. [13:59]
mircea_popescu o lyf. [13:59]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> anyone seen this wonder ? << scary huh [14:01]
mircea_popescu ./net.cpp: Sleep(10); [14:01]
assbot dpaste: 1JNBGCX ... ( ) [14:01]
mircea_popescu omfg ok i need a break [14:01]
* asciilifeform wonders what moved mircea_popescu to try his hand at trbism [14:06]
trinque /b #sales [14:11]
trinque heh! [14:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you ever been in college and ended up picking up chicks you were only half interested in because it sure as fuck beat doing the work you had to do that day ? [14:11]
mircea_popescu ThreadOpenConnections2(parg); << im not even including inept shit like this. clearly someone deeply understood threading. [14:12]
mircea_popescu int64 nRandomizer = (uint64)(nStart * 4951 + addr.nLastTry * 9567851 + addr.ip * 7789) % (2 * 60 * 60); [14:13]
mircea_popescu motherfucking god almighty. [14:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: approximately [14:17]
asciilifeform the WHOLE THING consists of THIS [14:17]
asciilifeform and as i described (and i think ben_vulpes did even earlier) the thing isn't ~actually~ multithreaded, in the sense of being able to evaluate multiple requests in parallel [14:18]
mircea_popescu ./main.h: void SetNull() { nFile = -1; nBlockPos = 0; nTxPos = 0; } << lulz of all time. [14:18]
mircea_popescu null squared is sometimes equal to the unit! [14:18]
mircea_popescu i should like to visit this algebra sometime. [14:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform definitely not multithreaded. which, given the strength of everything else, is a very good thing. [14:19]
asciilifeform nah it retains all of the minuses of multithread. [14:19]
asciilifeform with none of the plus. [14:19]
mircea_popescu just going from "could be a lot worse" [14:19]
asciilifeform thing is as bad as it could possibly be without falling down at the first gust of wind. [14:20]
mircea_popescu o god, the parade of magic substr addresses [14:20]
asciilifeform but there are, e.g., 101+ ways to hose an arbitrarily selected node for as long as you like [14:20]
asciilifeform and there is a variety of things you can coax a node into doing if you can corrupt the db; etc [14:22]
mircea_popescu no idea why anyone thinks "bitcoin will take over the world". they can't possibly be talking of the prb codebase. [14:22]
asciilifeform the current prb is a different kind of hell altogether [14:23]
mircea_popescu all this initing to -1 business... [14:24]
mircea_popescu who, over the mental age of ~12, does this [14:24]
asciilifeform if trb is sleeping in a dumpster and picking old razors out of the rotting mcd 'meal' trays to eat, prb is drowning in a usg paper dump [14:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: init to -1 is classical unixism, sorta like initing pointers to null [14:25]
mircea_popescu there is that. [14:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno how classical. perhaps in the gavin aka retarded sense of classical, [14:26]
asciilifeform the basic idiocy of unix is that there is NO error checking in any system call [14:28]
asciilifeform you are stuck checking the result of EVERY SINGLE ONE - or praying [14:28]
asciilifeform so folks init a var where result of system call is stored to the value of failure [14:28]
asciilifeform to make debugging the case where the call was not made at all, for whatever perverse reason, simpler. [14:29]
asciilifeform obligatory >> [14:30]
mircea_popescu then there's the case (as is here) of folk who can't get out of the fencing error so fix the code on the 2nd pass. [14:30]
assbot Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [14:30]
mircea_popescu "i guess this really should start counting at -2" [14:30]
asciilifeform '...neither Unix nor Windows _actually_ support either C or C++, but they manage to make them work, with downright incredible effort. if you look inside the libraries and see how a system call actually works and how much it differs from the C calling convention and usage, you'd be a fool not to revise your opinion. and _does_ an operating system that forces the programmer to check to see whether the operating system did what [14:31]
asciilifeform it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?' [14:31]
mircea_popescu in other lulz, "./wallet.cpp: exit(1); //We now probably have half of our keys encrypted in memory, and half not...die and let the user reload their unencrypted wallet." [14:31]
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asciilifeform i did say, in the very beginning, 'i want this in a book, as a reference' etc [14:34]
asciilifeform because the notion of using this thing, or anything directly derived from it, as a long-term anything, is lunacy. [14:34]
asciilifeform 'fixing' it is sorta like asking to 'fix' the dumpster mcdonalds chicken bits into an actual meal. [14:34]
asciilifeform yes, odin could re-arrange the atoms and form a fine dinner fit for mircea_popescu's table. [14:35]
asciilifeform but don't wait for this. [14:35]
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asciilifeform and also don't wait for me to write a fits-in-head and provably non-misbehaving btc client, even though i would much like to, know exactly how, and even have bits'n'pieces sitting around. because instead of this i'm stuck doing pointless crud in шарашка, so as to eat. [14:38]
thestringpuller so if we provide asciilifeform 's meals then he is freed from imprisonment? [14:39]
mircea_popescu sooner or later free man version of alf will pop into existence. [14:39]
mircea_popescu from the ashes of the very alf in question or not, remains to be seen [14:39]
asciilifeform well, we already have a mircea_popescu [14:39]
asciilifeform and he appears to have taken up programming... [14:40]
thestringpuller pheonix asciilifeform will be a very interesting person indeed [14:40]
asciilifeform why do you need two mircea_popescus. [14:40]
mircea_popescu the man who had a working plane and no boat made himself a leaky boat that couldn't fly. then the japanese bombed him. [14:40]
thestringpuller you could always go the gavin route and beg MIT for money. [14:40]
thestringpuller but i don't think that results in freedom [14:41]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: if you knew what i do for money today you would barf to death. [14:41]
thestringpuller does that involve taking it up the butt regularly for money? [14:41]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: nah, that's harmless fun in comparison [14:41]
mircea_popescu ./script.h: const_iterator pc2 = pc; [14:42]
mircea_popescu why! [14:42]
thestringpuller my job usually devolves into copy-pasting from one terminal to another for hours at a time. [14:43]
thestringpuller how programming == data entry, I don't know [14:43]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: and can't automate this, because will be sacked, as pictured in ? [14:44]
assbot Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( ) [14:44]
mircea_popescu return 99999; [14:44]
mircea_popescu -- [14:45]
mircea_popescu ./base58.h: // Expected size increase from base58 conversion is approximately 137% [14:45]
mircea_popescu ./base58.h: // use 138% to be safe [14:45]
mircea_popescu for instance, 10OIl0OIl0OIl0OIl== in base64 comes to 138% more crud in "base58" [14:46]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: Legend has it that Potter was promptly fired, never to be heard from again. << HOLY FUCKTITS. This is my life! [14:47]
asciilifeform whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing. [14:50]
asciilifeform yes, there are folks who are serious chessboxers. but for some reason i've never heard of such a fella winning a world chess OR boxing title. [14:50]
asciilifeform for the most part, nature does not deal in chimeras. [14:50]
thestringpuller this reminds me of the heinlein quote: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for i [14:53]
asciilifeform and one of the problems with 'free men' is that growing up as one tends to result in 'an aristotle' - aristocrat, who may be a very sharp fella but is not especially handy with 'slave crafts' and would normally not stoop to, e.g., programming a computer [14:53]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: heinlein was... a story-teller. [14:54]
asciilifeform there is nothing wrong with this. [14:54]
thestringpuller it sounds like you don't believe a polymath can truly exist [14:54]
thestringpuller cannot* [14:54]
gernika ob [14:54]
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thestringpuller err language escapes my bacon filled self [14:54]
gernika !down gernika [14:54]
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asciilifeform 'polymath' i suspect would describe most of the folks here. but the point i was trying to make is that in many ways certain aspects of mircea_popescu's picture in are intrinsically opposed [14:55]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 17:36:35; mircea_popescu: sooner or later free man version of alf will pop into existence. [14:55]
thestringpuller Hmmm. Seems this could be issue with jgarzik. Some like, 10 years of focus at redhat. Is "freed" from his slave labor, does nothing with his freedom. [14:57]
asciilifeform this applies to EVERY SINGLE CASE of 'freed' programming type i've ever met or so much as heard of. [14:57]
thestringpuller question arises, "How to use freedom productively?" [14:58]
asciilifeform 'don't destroy your brain with 20 years of cube first' ? [14:58]
asciilifeform the freedom of the 80 y.o. retiree is not interesting for anything. [14:58]
mircea_popescu whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing. << pfff. nonsense. [14:59]
thestringpuller obviously because 80 year old just wants to fuck bitches and chill. [14:59]
asciilifeform now i've never actually met a chess-boxer. but it would not astonish me if i learned that they keep the company of other boxers and regard actual Großmeisters, who devoted their lives to chess, as effete lusers. [15:02]
mircea_popescu so basically you're a heinlein for your own needs. [15:03]
asciilifeform what's that mean [15:03]
mircea_popescu that you're making up stories. for a captive audience that's easy to please. [15:04]
mircea_popescu back at insanity ranch, ./net.h: vSend << a1 << a2 << a3; [15:05]
mircea_popescu why not call all variables v1 through v9000 is anyone's guyess. [15:05]
asciilifeform why not visit the sanity ranch and see how they did it [15:05]
asciilifeform does mircea_popescu ever wonder about the scarcity of code written by sane folks ? [15:06]
asciilifeform i suspect that learning to program is a fundamentally insane act. [15:06]
asciilifeform and that this is the prime mover of it all. [15:06]
mircea_popescu not so. just like fucking isn't a fundamentally insane act. [15:06]
asciilifeform it is rather like asking why circus acrobats are odd folk [15:06]
mircea_popescu your arguments exactly mirror a broken version of reality pushed forth by overgrown girls that are yet affraid to be women. [15:06]
asciilifeform which one ? [15:07]
mircea_popescu "learning to program is a fundamentally insane act." [15:08]
asciilifeform it is a hypothesis with much predictive power, and is not altogether different from aristotle's position on whether kings ought to learn blacksmithing [15:09]
mircea_popescu still a dead end. exactly equivalent with soviet woman's conclusion that getting married is an exercise in insanity. [15:09]
asciilifeform the woman, on the whole, has a biological role [15:10]
asciilifeform and tends to break in ways not covered by warranty, as a whole, if fails to perform it [15:11]
asciilifeform but as far as i'm aware, there is no biological 'programmer race' [15:11]
asciilifeform (as dwarves 'must mine' in 'd&d' universes) [15:11]
mircea_popescu i can't say i see merit in any of these propositions. [15:11]
asciilifeform i'd be worried if mircea_popescu ~did~ see merit, would suspect that the universe is coming unglued [15:12]
mircea_popescu lol [15:12]
asciilifeform but in all seriousness, clever folk who strike gold in whatever form, who programmed, tend to gravitate away from it - iirc mthreat is doing a sane thing, flying old ru jets, rather than dredging through cpp crud [15:15]
asciilifeform and from mircea_popescu's articles i get the impression that his meatspace friends are respectable folk, 'high power' lawyers, traders, etc. rather than cpp connoisseurs [15:16]
asciilifeform sane people. [15:16]
mircea_popescu chet coded c++. [15:17]
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asciilifeform and even mircea_popescu apparently does, on occasion. [15:17]
mircea_popescu and the idea is inept. yes i know a lot of "respectable folk". i also know a lot of common whores. and everything in between. [15:17]
asciilifeform the whores are respectable. [15:17]
mircea_popescu i even know some dogs. [15:17]
asciilifeform as are dogs [15:17]
mircea_popescu and a coupla whorses. [15:17]
mircea_popescu and even mircea_popescu apparently does, on occasion. << actually that dpaste earlier was the first time in at least 10 years. [15:19]
asciilifeform at any rate, it is perfectly safe for a king to entertain himself by being a blacksmith, or a sailor - as peter the great did [15:19]
asciilifeform (and iirc he was a pretty good one) [15:19]
mircea_popescu it's however NOT safe at all for blacksmith to entertain himself by telling stories about what peter does and why. [15:21]
asciilifeform but folks who knew the forge from the age of five, tend to not end up kings.. [15:21]
mircea_popescu this is also not true. [15:21]
asciilifeform i suppose herr ceausescu would be a counter-example [15:21]
mircea_popescu numerous examples throughout. [15:22]
mircea_popescu ;;google voda ioan potcoava [15:22]
gribble Ioan Potcoavă - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Ioan Nicoară Potcoavă, domn al Moldovei - ; Domnitori - Ioan Nicoară Potcoavă - [15:22]
asciilifeform and mircea_popescu is correct re: that i cannot possibly have any idea ~why~ peter 1 did what he did. [15:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ioan p. reminds me, there really oughta be some good material floating about re: the 20th c. chinese 'warlords' (as they are for some reason called in english world) [15:23]
mircea_popescu well... what'd you call them ? seems quite apt. [15:24]
asciilifeform some of them were pretty interesting folk [15:24]
asciilifeform one comes to mind, who hired germans to build him a mustard gas factory [15:24]
asciilifeform << spiffy [15:25]
asciilifeform somehow i escaped this in ukr school [15:25]
mircea_popescu weird huh. [15:25]
asciilifeform Панували, добували / І славу, і волю; / Минулося — осталися / Могили на полі. [15:26]
asciilifeform notbad.jpg [15:26]
mircea_popescu i suppose programmers also don't get to know about respectable hatmans ? [15:26]
asciilifeform hey i knew a few. [15:27]
mircea_popescu requires being fed royal jelly to know of this! [15:27]
asciilifeform батька атаман (tm) (r) [15:27]
mircea_popescu FILE* file = fopen(strprintf("%s/blk%04d.dat", GetDataDir().c_str(), nFile).c_str(), pszMode); [15:28]
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mircea_popescu !up Terry4 [15:30]
-assbot- You voiced Terry4 for 30 minutes. [15:30]
* assbot gives voice to Terry4 [15:30]
thestringpuller ;;ud royal jelly [15:33]
gribble | Royal Jelly. The glorious coating surrounding a cock when it pulls out of an asshole that has not been prelubed. The asshole has created a natural lubricant that ... [15:33]
mircea_popescu ./main.cpp- for (;;) << i don't get it, if it's going to do plain for(;;) why the fuck does it want the fancy boost_foreach ? [15:33]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller it's the stuff bee larva get fed to become sluts rather than housewives. [15:34]
asciilifeform << l0l thestringpuller [15:34]
assbot Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( ) [15:34]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for(;;) is an infinite loop [15:35]
asciilifeform boost_foreach is not, it is an iterator over some set [15:35]
mircea_popescu oh i thought it had some implicit termination, nm. [15:36]
asciilifeform incidentally not so long ago i felt the desire to rewrite chunks of trb to abolish boost [15:36]
asciilifeform by using c++11-isms [15:36]
Terry4 Did you see the strategy about subsiding bitcoin miners to stay on the original BTC, (as a last case scenario to defeat any alt-chain)? [15:36]
asciilifeform but then realized that this would lead us into perdition [15:36]
asciilifeform that is, using corrupted versions of gcc [15:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i would much like a complete list of boost structures, with analysis. [15:38]
mircea_popescu but we're not there yet. so far, prepping a list of magic numbers. [15:38]
mircea_popescu five or so steps below. but gotta start where the seafloor is, nothing else. [15:38]
asciilifeform (boost exists largely because cpp is not actually programmable in without using something like boost. which has been largely incorporated into the recent standard.) [15:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what you're really interested in is std:: structures [15:39]
mircea_popescu ./main.cpp: if (nProcessors < 1) nProcessors = 1; [15:39]
asciilifeform boost is used in trb for iterators, for the most part [15:39]
mircea_popescu my display is slowlyt decaying from displaying this fucking buffer [15:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i was thinking that would go later. [15:39]
asciilifeform jurov did some diggin on std::map and everybody barfed [15:40]
asciilifeform unsurprisingly [15:40]
mircea_popescu i think ima end up with fucking dead pixels that satoshi burned. [15:40]
asciilifeform whatcha even doing [15:40]
mircea_popescu but we're not there yet. so far, prepping a list of magic numbers. << [15:41]
asciilifeform as in stray constants ? [15:41]
mircea_popescu no. as in magic numbers. anyway, you'll see. [15:41]
mircea_popescu ./bitcoinrpc.h:// Copyright (c) 2010 Satoshi Nakamoto [15:41]
mircea_popescu ./bitcoinrpc.h:// Copyright (c) 2011 The Bitcoin developers [15:41]
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mircea_popescu ^inept fuckiing shit. who the fuck thinks this is how it works ? [15:41]
asciilifeform every batch of plowing flies on the planet ? [15:41]
mircea_popescu Copyright 2010 Disney corp ; Copyright 2013 internet-derps. whynot! [15:41]
asciilifeform 'kicking the dead lion' [15:42]
* asciilifeform bbl [15:44]
mircea_popescu ./db.cpp: // Tray icon sometimes disappears on 9.10 karmic koala 64-bit, leaving no way to access the program [15:45]
mircea_popescu ./db.cpp- fMinimizeToTray = false; [15:45]
mircea_popescu logic. [15:45]
thestringpuller looks like irdial would rather post to medium than qntra: [15:47]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell beautyon what do you like about the vc wordpress anyway ? [15:50]
gribble The operation succeeded. [15:50]
mircea_popescu BN_rshift segfaults on 64-bit if 2^shift is greater than the number if built on ubuntu 9.04 or 9.10, probably depends on version of openssl [15:54]
mircea_popescu hey, is this a documented openssl hole ? seems it could be useful. [15:54]
* assbot removes voice from Terry4 [16:01]
mircea_popescu ./crypter.cpp- // Note as well that at no point in this program is any attempt made to prevent stealing of keys by reading the memory of the running process. << this is oddly the right choice. [16:04]
mod6 had a nice big breakfast for lunch. [16:20]
mod6 and a pretty lengthy walk. so nb. [16:20]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> hey, is this a documented openssl hole ? seems it could be useful. << found this, seems like the opposite tho: [16:23]
BingoBoingo thank you [16:26]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 12:38:53; mircea_popescu: << this reminds me of that "i'll be sober in the morning - you'll still be ugly" line. [16:26]
mircea_popescu mod6 aha of histoprical interest. [16:29]
thestringpuller it's funny trying to see evoorhees play politician [16:30]
thestringpuller "guise guise guise. can't we just all get along. plz? we shouldn't be having civil wars guise." [16:31]
thestringpuller reminds me of a young lincoln [16:31]
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BingoBoingo << only the absence of things [16:33]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 10:26:39; punkman: BingoBoingo: anything interesting in the jtoomim logz? [16:33]
mircea_popescu " is a real and is rounded to the nearest 0.00000001
mircea_popescu g [16:34]
mircea_popescu good god. [16:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84700 @ 0.00056685 = 48.0122 BTC [-] {3} [16:42]
BingoBoingo It's possible Magnus Carlsen makes the switch to the hybrid sport [16:44]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 17:47:49; asciilifeform: yes, there are folks who are serious chessboxers. but for some reason i've never heard of such a fella winning a world chess OR boxing title. [16:44]
mircea_popescu << actually the concept can be introduced much neater. there exist two sorts of men in this world, and they are distinguished readily when an alluring woman makes an interesting proposal. some can't, and some "let's go". the principle (in reverse), is illustrated in [16:46]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 17:47:17; asciilifeform: whenever i hear about mircea_popescu's 'free men', i think of... chessboxing. [16:46]
assbot The Romanian language for other people. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [16:46]
* mircea_popescu has found himself, iwthout interruption, in this position for as long as he can remember, which'd be a good three decades by now. [16:47]
mircea_popescu it has exactly 0 to do with money, because schoolchildren have no money. it's a thing. [16:47]
mircea_popescu some kids gotta ask their parents, some don't. [16:47]
mircea_popescu this is, contrary to what everyone'd like to think, strictly unrelated to the parents. [16:48]
mircea_popescu so... you want to know why i'm trampling all over this grep dump rioght now ? it... it fucking winked! [16:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: when i was a small boy, my elder brother taught me a lesson once: [16:52]
asciilifeform he said 'i will give you a gift! a real computer!' [16:52]
asciilifeform i say 'no way.' next day... [16:53]
asciilifeform he hands me a matchbox. [16:53]
asciilifeform when i push it out, nothing in it [16:53]
asciilifeform he: 'flip it over' [16:53]
asciilifeform when you push it, the word правильно (CORRECT) [16:53]
asciilifeform it worked !1111111 [16:54]
mircea_popescu sure. so what's the problem with that ? [16:54]
asciilifeform none. [16:54]
asciilifeform it worked great. [16:54]
asciilifeform and reading mircea_popescu on certain subjects is rather reminiscent of this 'computer' [16:54]
asciilifeform he could give a good gift to folks, matchbox that when pushed tells you: [16:54]
asciilifeform 'you aren't virile enough! go feed yourself to pigz!111' [16:55]
mircea_popescu what else do you expect is there. [16:55]
mircea_popescu the reverse ? [16:55]
asciilifeform back when the english folks were literate, they had a name for this, [16:55]
asciilifeform 'dismal science' [16:55]
mircea_popescu you know a) the intention was to contrast it with GAY science [16:56]
asciilifeform there is nothing wrong with this, once one adjusts one's expectations. [16:56]
mircea_popescu and b) it was used for economics not metaphysics. [16:56]
asciilifeform no parachute, just a helpful fella telling you how many metres until your splat. [16:56]
asciilifeform fwiw, unlike some folks, i appreciate this gift. sorta like when doctor tells 'you have six months'. would you rather be surprised ? [16:58]
asciilifeform it beats ambling about like redditard, smashing into every possible wall, and never knowing why. [16:59]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: I know it's l0l cuz I spend my life making robots to do my slave labor for me. I feel bad for the robots tho. I dunno man. Working in web dev, the developers are insane. It's like everyone wants to use some new unproven technology Y before fixing technology X first that it's built upon. [16:59]
thestringpuller Perhaps this is from consumer has come to expect mentality of everything being "flashy and pretty" but it makes me cringe cause you never have truly correct way of doing things. Just correct way of doing broken thing. [17:00]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: nobody gets paid to fix foundations. [17:00]
asciilifeform it is bad business sense. [17:00]
asciilifeform (in that most of the reward will be reaped by others, who paid nothing) [17:01]
mircea_popescu only in some definitions of pay and business. [17:01]
thestringpuller So how is derp supposed to even begin to learn correctness, if he can't understand what a correct foundation is. [17:01]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: ideally he learned it in kindergarten when he added 2+2. correctly. [17:01]
asciilifeform if this was not so, there is no cure. [17:01]
mircea_popescu wait. [17:01]
mircea_popescu did you just...matchbox ?! [17:01]
asciilifeform yes [17:02]
mircea_popescu lol [17:02]
thestringpuller ;;ud matchbox [17:02]
gribble | Matchbox. A three-some in the back of a car. Guy 1: Dude I hooked up with Sarah and Kourtney in the back of my car lastnight! Guy 2: DUDE YOU JUST HAD A ... [17:02]
asciilifeform neither of us 'asked parents', played with matches, yes [17:02]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: ideally he learned it in kindergarten [17:02]
thestringpuller ^-well in this context you can learn correct foundation [17:03]
thestringpuller but what if foundation is broken on layers above [17:03]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: there was an episode at c3 involving a box of matches, prolly what mircea_popescu was remembering. [17:03]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no i meant just above. [17:03]
asciilifeform ah [17:03]
asciilifeform l0lz [17:03]
thestringpuller I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT. [17:04]
thestringpuller Rinse repeat. [17:04]
asciilifeform there was never any other way to learn from other people. [17:05]
thestringpuller Not with the bastardization of education being dumbed down for the so-called masses. [17:05]
thestringpuller In fact when I was thinking of going into education one of the courses I took harped on the fact that the best mode of teaching is pairing a real expert with student apprenticeship style. [17:05]
asciilifeform i've never known any thinking folk who actually relied on 'public education' for any useful thing they knew. [17:05]
thestringpuller But this isn't feasible economically. [17:05]
mircea_popescu ./serialize.h:// There's a clever template way to make arrays serialize normally, but MSVC6 doesn't support it [17:07]
mircea_popescu herp. [17:07]
mircea_popescu msvc shouldn't even be fucking supported in the first place. [17:07]
asciilifeform i think mircea_popescu is really enjoying this, somehow [17:07]
mircea_popescu of course. [17:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ever read the thing before ? [17:07]
thestringpuller I learned to code on MSVC lol. QBasic -> MSVC_6 -> Linux [17:08]
mircea_popescu not in a systematic manner. [17:08]
thestringpuller and I thought Linux was ideal, but it turns out even that is bastardized. [17:08]
mircea_popescu i'm not reading now either, just had some summaries made by a rule [17:08]
mircea_popescu as opposed to the usual manner (human-directed) [17:08]
asciilifeform lemme guess, grepped for comments, and for 0-9 [17:08]
asciilifeform woah [17:11]
asciilifeform REORG. [17:11]
asciilifeform has anybody been graphing ph0rklets ? [17:12]
asciilifeform massive shitflood of doublespends [17:13]
asciilifeform and, interestingly, it is very easy to distinguish the tx spamola with naked eye [17:14]
asciilifeform (moves very fresh coin back'n'forth) [17:14]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform [17:17]
mircea_popescu and yes it is obvious. [17:17]
assbot The sad state of Bitcoin code on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. [17:18]
mircea_popescu but yeah, re conference matchbox vs правильно matchbox, it is apparent that the matchsticks are more interesting than the box alone. [17:23]
jurov << to spill some more C bile [17:27]
assbot 7 Scandalous Weird Old Things About The C Preprocessor ... ( ) [17:27]
mircea_popescu << doh. [17:30]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 09:34:54; BingoBoingo: But basically this Hearnia is painting Janssens and some Obeast named "Marshall Long" as the reasons for the adverserial nature of ClassicCoin. Framing of course because it's what good instruments do so he can try to relevant himself again in six months [17:30]
mircea_popescu << i don't think bmi is intended to cover that case. [17:31]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 10:04:15; copypaste: i have a high BMI, but only because my spine collapsed due to my condition which takes many inches off my height. but even then BMI is only 31. [17:31]
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mircea_popescu notably, at-birth ideal bmi is 3÷0.5^2=12. [17:33]
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deedbot- [Trilema] The sad state of Bitcoin code - [17:33]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) July 2016 to drop under 20 USD before June - [17:33]
mircea_popescu << iirc she was pretty hot, back in the 90s or w/e. [17:36]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 10:47:32; assbot: Sunny Leone wows web over grilling about porn past - BBC News ... ( ) [17:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29277 @ 0.00056271 = 16.4745 BTC [-] {3} [17:39]
asciilifeform jurov: mega-link [17:39]
asciilifeform mainly for [17:39]
assbot ... ( ) [17:39]
asciilifeform << he has a full toolchain, incl. c compiler, and several emulators for it [17:39]
assbot ... ( ) [17:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72799 @ 0.00055995 = 40.7638 BTC [-] {4} [17:40]
asciilifeform every once in a while, i run into somebody like this [17:40]
asciilifeform who understands the von neumann shitstack VERY WELL [17:40]
asciilifeform so well that their trying to somehow reboot it, rather than burning it to the ground, begins to beggar the imagination [17:40]
asciilifeform 'It is called the 'One-Page CPU' because you can fit the specification on an 8.5 by 11 sheet of paper without margins using 8 point Consolas font, and still have lots of room to spare. It is intended to be an easy to emulate compile target that supports context switching and interrupts.' [17:41]
mircea_popescu << all the items read to me like stuff typical of what happens with ad-hoc development by "tech savvy" people. [17:41]
assbot 7 Scandalous Weird Old Things About The C Preprocessor ... ( ) [17:41]
asciilifeform i suspect that ~emergence~ is a difficult concept for people. e.g., the fact that the digits of 'pi' are not in any sense 'random' [17:42]
asciilifeform or that the sea of shit in which we are now drowning was implicit in 1940s model of computer, and is no accident [17:42]
mircea_popescu i don't think most paradigms... to call personal ideologies thusly, do not allow for emergence specifically [17:42]
mircea_popescu to assuage the fear of death issue. [17:42]
asciilifeform incidentally, 'mips' cpu fits on one page: it was printed in the inner cover of the book my brother went to school with, and likewise inside same book, edition of decade later, and is in every other systems arch. book on the planet, also inside front cover. [17:44]
asciilifeform so there is nothing new there. [17:44]
asciilifeform reducing the cpu instruction set is sorta like lancing one particular bubonic boil on the body of a plague victim. [17:45]
mircea_popescu 5) Function Macros And Recursion <<< "What ended up being the bug in my preprocessor for this test case was in evaluating the argument prescanned tokens that were passed to a function macro invocation. If the function macro being invoked contained a token with the same identifier as the function macro being invoked, but didn't actually call that function macro, it would incorrectly disable this token. This bug combine [17:46]
mircea_popescu d with another bug where tokens were copied by reference would mean that disabling one token could disable it in other places, so the outer valid macro invocation's token would be disabled and never able to expand again. The bug was around step (34)." [17:46]
mircea_popescu jesus shit this shouldn't exist. [17:46]
asciilifeform it is all-pervasive. [17:46]
asciilifeform there is no place in computingdom where one does not find it after just a light scratch. [17:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu - [17:47]
assbot The sad state of Bitcoin code on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [17:47]
mircea_popescu aha. becqause for thugs not for cunts. [17:48]
asciilifeform how does that make the difference ? [17:48]
mircea_popescu !s "whenever man sits down to do anything" [17:49]
assbot 1 results for '"whenever man sits down to do anything"' : [17:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm not entirely sure. [17:49]
asciilifeform i was somehow under the idea that the romans lounged around in their communal shitters, both sexes, for hours at a stretch, for no particularly good reason, just chit-chat [17:50]
asciilifeform but not sure how i came upon this. [17:50]
mircea_popescu incidentally, and perhaps relatedly, for a long time the concept of toilet consisted of a ditch api, upon which you could implement your arbitrary toilet at any point through placing a wooden beam [17:50]
mircea_popescu that was the bath not the shitter. [17:50]
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mircea_popescu the idea that toilet belongs by the pool is about as alien to the roman as the idea that toilet belongs by kitchen sink is to you. [17:51]
asciilifeform mega-unsurprise [17:51]
asciilifeform cloaka maxima was open air, etc. [17:51]
asciilifeform sealed pipes from arse into the sea are a very modern (and shaky) abstraction. [17:52]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell shinohai I am disappoint (sarcasm) [18:00]
gribble The operation succeeded. [18:00]
assbot ... ( ) [18:00]
BingoBoingo sealed pipes from arse into the sea are a very modern (and shaky) abstraction. << Not sealed the whole way, settling ponds etc [18:01]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: But there are definitely open shit pipes headed to the sea. Mississippi river is prime example. [18:03]
BingoBoingo "Chun has made a concrete hard fork proposal since – though the details of this proposal are not yet clear." [18:03]
mircea_popescu lol [18:04]
trinque straight into the shitpipe with that [18:04]
mircea_popescu concrete means things nao [18:04]
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shinohai Hey BingoBoingo I emailed them twice, no one ever responded. [18:05]
BingoBoingo shinohai: Hence the sarcasm [18:05]
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mircea_popescu does that link load anything for anyone ? [18:05]
BingoBoingo Not yet, so [18:06]
assbot F2Pool: Chinese Pools Will Stick with Bitcoin Core | Bitcoin Magazine ... ( ) [18:06]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:06]
shinohai I figured they weren't gonna say much until an "official announcement" despite Garzik trying to fly over and garner Classic support. [18:06]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:06]
mircea_popescu buncha inconsequential derps already. [18:07]
shinohai "I admire Dr. Pieter Wuille’s brilliant hack to deploy it as a soft fork. But despite being brilliant, the soft fork Segregated Witness is still a hack. A hack is dirty. Such a technology would be better implemented as hard fork.” [18:09]
mircea_popescu or as a bullet between the eyes. either way. [18:09]
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thestringpuller mircea_popescu: remember when Garzik was all "Lets build a decentralized exchange for ASICMINER" [18:16]
thestringpuller i need to find that article you wrote [18:16]
BingoBoingo NINE TIMES A LOL: "We don't matter. What matters is begging the cartel of miners to adopt a change the community overwhelmingly wants." [18:19]
assbot thouliha comments on Without official statement from miners and others, one should treat all reports of Classic losing support as subterfuge. ... ( ) [18:19]
BingoBoingo This is becoming meme [18:19]
BingoBoingo They can't even beg for bits-coin anymore so they gotta beg for a bits-coin they might eventually have [18:20]
mircea_popescu lol [18:21]
mircea_popescu i gotta say the lulz delivery is satisfactory. [18:21]
BingoBoingo Shit's popping up everywhere now. USG phillipino delivery for ClassicCoin must have finally arrived a week late [18:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 125300 @ 0.00055869 = 70.0039 BTC [-] {2} [18:35]
mod6 << so i had the entire tree (all current patches in pressed out through alf's latest two. then i made the changes. [18:36]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 12:53:33; mircea_popescu: what init.cpp are you working on as an a mod6 ? [18:36]
assbot 404 Not Found ... ( ) [18:36]
mod6 so this guy: [18:37]
assbot ... ( ) [18:37]
mod6 has the following: [18:37]
mod6 diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp [18:37]
mod6 --- a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp ff7009f672bf400a42d1d7afb6e58aaf1c29d9c219fad51c5f17000243a485e92bbb250d3f4bbec3f0717d00fad620c294d537832671f20c0979fb3f1383779b [18:37]
mod6 +++ b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp 29fbb8792c3462ced61b4a0284360122f72c4fef7fb5fb84e5399967ab6474cd83ccf3a60eb3c425e183b1b95fb9ca71fc23bb791316d762034559df293f8bb0 [18:37]
mod6 and mine: [18:37]
mod6 diff -uNr a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp [18:37]
mod6 --- a/bitcoin/src/init.cpp 29fbb8792c3462ced61b4a0284360122f72c4fef7fb5fb84e5399967ab6474cd83ccf3a60eb3c425e183b1b95fb9ca71fc23bb791316d762034559df293f8bb0 [18:37]
mod6 +++ b/bitcoin/src/init.cpp cbfb2d8c9a5b1d1c16a66291bcb1f9c7e185b02c7a07f023e1256ce52531f4fc6145fdcdb334e96caa5d31e8ce7aa6fa7aa24e59abd3e8899b17afa2054bc7cd [18:37]
mod6 so that should have been ok. [18:37]
mod6 not sure what happened there. maybe your local branch doesn't have alf's latest 2? [18:38]
mod6 anyway, jsut checking because I got asked about this separately. [18:39]
thestringpuller ERROR: AcceptBlock() : out of disk space [18:39]
thestringpuller ERROR: ProcessBlock() : AcceptBlock FAILED [18:39]
thestringpuller ^-- then cleanly shuts down [18:39]
thestringpuller TRB gives me hope [18:40]
punkman that's not what it gives [18:40]
mircea_popescu mod6 ah makes sense, i was working off the prev release, which is actually incorrect. [18:40]
mircea_popescu gg. [18:41]
mod6 ah, ok c-ya [18:41]
mod6 thx [18:41]
mod6 <+punkman> that's not what it gives << eh? [18:42]
punkman "99% crapolade by weight" does not give hope. The work of the foundation is of course commendable and there is hope there. [18:44]
mod6 oooh [18:44]
mod6 ok [18:44]
punkman thestringpuller: I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT. << /me is waiting for Ada master in need of apprentice [18:44]
mod6 thought you were talkin about those vpatches [18:44]
thestringpuller punkman: i'll rephrase "The Foundation gives me hope" :P [18:45]
mircea_popescu well... it's what, 650kb, so then the idea is that it should be condensable in 10kb or so ? [18:46]
mircea_popescu epic, ascii will get his book in standard newspaper format. [18:46]
BingoBoingo [18:47]
assbot The ever humble Roger Ver, submits link to twitter account of Roger Ver, to tweet of Roger Ver, with twitter profile picture of Roger Ver, quoting Roger Ver, on forum controlled by Roger Ver. : Buttcoin ... ( ) [18:47]
shinohai <<< ROFL [18:50]
assbot shrinknut comments on The ever humble Roger Ver, submits link to twitter account of Roger Ver, to tweet of Roger Ver, with twitter profile picture of Roger Ver, quoting Roger Ver, on forum controlled by Roger Ver. ... ( ) [18:50]
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mircea_popescu "Yves here. Get a cup of coffee. This is a deep dive into how Bitcoin works from a payment systems perspective, and why the failure of promoters and journalists to look at it in those terms has led them to greatly overestimate its significance." << "come hear my very novel take on why bitcoin is not disruptive because it doesn't do the buzzword i think i understand and for this reason matters more than everything else!" [18:56]
mircea_popescu da fuck is "nakedcapitalism" anyway. the pompousness of these two-guys-and-their-hopes, 200 bucks in the bank ventures is nothing short of exactly what you'd expect. [18:57]
mircea_popescu “Bitcoin the currency is going nowhere. There is nothing behind it, and if it was big the governments would stop it,” said Dimon. <<< :)) [18:58]
mircea_popescu check it out alfie, your clone with less technical skills is running the usg's largest bank-department. [18:59]
mircea_popescu << sadly on shitspot. not so terrible otherwise. [19:00]
assbot John Ratcliff's Code Suppository: The Lightning Network Reality Check ... ( ) [19:00]
mod6 ;;tslb [19:00]
danielpbarron so am I the only one that hates 'tab' and prefers spaces when coding? [19:00]
gribble Time since last block: 21 minutes and 4 seconds [19:00]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron why would you prefer spaces ? [19:01]
danielpbarron because then the code will always look the same no matter who views it [19:01]
mircea_popescu why is that a good thing ? [19:01]
mircea_popescu how the code LOOKS and what the code SAYS are drastically different matters. the code should say the same to everyone, but looks are unimportant. this is the same age old fundamental distinction between alphabet and literacy and symbolism and "creativity". [19:02]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00055843 = 35.1252 BTC [-] {4} [19:05]
mircea_popescu the problem is that when you go from | echos"hellosworld!";| to |ssssechos"hellosworld!";| you really went from [19:06]
mircea_popescu |(line_indenter)echo(token_separator)"hello(token_separator)world!";| to |(token_separator)(token_separator)(token_separator)(token_separator)echo(token_separator)"hello(token_separator)world!";| [19:06]
mircea_popescu this is a significant loss to everyone doing things that depend on the difference between one item and the other. [19:06]
danielpbarron I also prefer the '{' on a newline vs on same line as function name. But I haven't done nearly as much coding as those of you who hate these conventions so what do I know [19:06]
mircea_popescu the reason the newline { is hated is because it eats a line. people generally want to cram stuff in their screens. [19:07]
danielpbarron so why not put the whole proggy on one line [19:07]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [19:07]
danielpbarron back when i wrote my own html generator I had it spit everything out as one line [19:07]
mircea_popescu note that there's a great tendency to condense lines by "meaning". which is what alf's proposal to stick a && in that double if clause comes to. [19:07]
adlai you want to optimize screenful-legibility... this is a convex space, but far from linear [19:08]
mircea_popescu "i want every one thing to be in a single place" is a deep driver of meta-programming. [19:08]
danielpbarron seems to me it's easier to read when you can see the '{' and '}' line up [19:08]
adlai s/-/X/ ie, product [19:08]
adlai mircea_popescu: is MPEx still looking for btc/fiat options market makers? [19:09]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [19:09]
mircea_popescu maybe. [19:09]
adlai if so, where's the price signal? [19:09]
mircea_popescu how would i know ? [19:09]
mircea_popescu if someone that's respectable, competent and so on wants to do it i might entertain it. [19:10]
adlai ok. is there another conf anytime soon? [19:10]
mircea_popescu well, apparently not this year. maybe next. [19:10]
adlai ok. i know somebody respectable, competent, and so on, and he isn't willing to give money to people he hasn't met in person. [19:10]
mircea_popescu is whatever "he" that is in my wot ? [19:11]
adlai you're not in his. [19:11]
mircea_popescu mno, this is not how it works. [19:11]
mircea_popescu he goes to six months log reading etc. [19:11]
adlai or he finds somebody who's done it, because ain't nobody got time for this. s/nobody/$0 that Matters/ [19:12]
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mircea_popescu aaaand to make the matter quite plain, i've had it just about up to here witgh idiot jews who think they're exceptional. they aren't, the accomodation is 0, they;d better be fucking humble as if they're begging to avoid gang ass rape. [19:12]
mircea_popescu mostly because they are. [19:12]
mircea_popescu ok, this conversation is over. [19:12]
* adlai enjoyed it, thank you for your time. [19:12]
mircea_popescu i will, for the record, NEVER entertain anyone you propose for anything. [19:12]
adlai lol kay [19:13]
* adlai wonders whether he should re-rate mircea_popescu with the thing about "text, signed or otherwise" [19:14]
mircea_popescu fancy what we're discussing in 2016, "oh hey, 2012 never happened, let's pretend that we matter and there's no deathstar in orbit". derp. [19:14]
* adlai doesn't recall saying that he himself, that is, adlai_chandrasekhar, wants to meet mircea_popescu or market make options [19:15]
adlai people do sometimes meet people outside of the internet! [19:15]
mircea_popescu there's exactly zero leeway. noobs are noobs, and start at the noob place. whatever they may think of themselves. and the more they delay, the less they'll get for it. again irrespective of what they may think it's worth. [19:17]
asciilifeform << THIS IS what my 'o' command was for!11111 [19:18]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 21:34:22; mod6: has the following: [19:18]
mircea_popescu there's a very ample history of idiots thinking they may bypass this, starting with bitcoinica. i welcome more victims, gladly. [19:18]
asciilifeform mod6: does your vtron implement 'origin' ? [19:18]
asciilifeform << yes! and you can almost ~define~ 'sane system' this way. with the caveat that it can't be a non-orthogonal fudge like a program consisting of one line 'start_bitcoind()' nor anything in that spirit. ORTHOGONAL operators. [19:19]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 21:43:57; mircea_popescu: well... it's what, 650kb, so then the idea is that it should be condensable in 10kb or so ? [19:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform hm ? [19:20]
asciilifeform os+language such that a usable and correct bitcoin client is 10kB of src. [19:20]
* danielpbarron was a victim of bitcoinica :< [19:20]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: does your vtron implement 'origin' ? << no [19:20]
asciilifeform mod6: but now you perhaps see why i did ? [19:21]
asciilifeform it is to answer 'wtf did this come from' questions, as a class. [19:21]
mircea_popescu honestly, i have no complaint with the absence. [19:21]
mod6 eh. kinda sorta, i gotta re-read that part when i get a chance. but i think that you think it's useful :] [19:21]
mod6 i can see about adding it. [19:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform ah, that. myeah. that'd be nice. [19:22]
mircea_popescu i think we might be a few iterations away from it yet tho [19:22]
asciilifeform << i could try feigning stupidity and becoming sturmbannführer of something, but i don't think it works like that - you can't turn into a hapsburg emperor by elongating your nose, last i heard [19:23]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 21:56:07; mircea_popescu: check it out alfie, your clone with less technical skills is running the usg's largest bank-department. [19:23]
mircea_popescu he's equally convinced that "if it exists, is cuz god willed it, and should it go away, it will be through god's will" [19:23]
asciilifeform لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله [19:24]
asciilifeform (tm) (r) [19:24]
mircea_popescu yeh but i don't think that group of nuts would like you, or you them. meanwhile the usgod crowd... prolly. maybe. who knows. [19:25]
asciilifeform actually very similar [19:25]
asciilifeform really not all that different in outlook, behaviour, thought pattern. [19:26]
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mircea_popescu well, it is pretty obnoxiously identical to my view, yeah. [19:28]
mircea_popescu !up jixei_ [19:28]
-assbot- You voiced jixei_ for 30 minutes. [19:28]
* assbot gives voice to jixei_ [19:28]
shinohai !rate Cristina -1 Una gran pérdida de tiempo. Disfrute su bolsillas de mierdas. [19:30]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [19:30]
* jixei has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [19:30]
mircea_popescu o.O [19:30]
mircea_popescu you're not angry at the chick for not putting out are you ? [19:30]
mod6 "Enjoy your shit bags." is how google just translated it. HAHA [19:31]
shinohai She is trying to sell some huge bag of some shitcoin, after I told her politely 3 times I'm not interested in being liberated of my paltry BTC earning funding scams. [19:32]
mircea_popescu ahaha [19:33]
mircea_popescu in other news, [19:33]
assbot ... ( ) [19:33]
shinohai !v assbot:shinohai.rate.Cristina.-1:40c3c4340ad9d24dce23bbbdda229940e2fc9afe2e5b305e71cee5823a45b431 [19:33]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for Cristina from 1 to -1 with note: Una gran pérdida de tiempo. Disfrute su bolsillas de mierdas. [19:33]
* adlai sees nothing wrong with selling properly-labelled shitbags [19:33]
adlai "caution: may contain peanuts, gluten, and glucose" is much better than "100% asbestos-phree!!!!' [19:34]
* PeterL is now known as PeterL_urk [19:34]
adlai shinohai: care to say which and how much? this is financial data relevant to shitcoin-asseteers [19:35]
shinohai I'll have her send you an email. [19:36]
shinohai kek [19:37]
adlai mno [19:37]
* adlai gets enough altcoin spam by merely logging into reddit [19:38]
BingoBoingo She is trying to sell some huge bag of some shitcoin, after I told her politely 3 times I'm not interested in being liberated of my paltry BTC earning funding scams. << Which shitcoin? [19:38]
BingoBoingo It's useful to know which shitcoin it was this round and the record a running tab of what i++ next shitcoins are [19:40]
adlai asciilifeform: care to translate better than google can? [19:40]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 22:21:32; asciilifeform: لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله [19:40]
BingoBoingo Why not google that string to see if there are already human translations. Or just swim across the Micheal Jordan river and ask someone a little browner than yourself? [19:51]
BingoBoingo << 7! [19:51]
assbot Network Snapshot - Bitnodes ... ( ) [19:51]
* adlai dons gascuba mask and swims to the "don't be evil" bank [19:52]
* adlai still doesn't understand why asciilifeform quoted that [19:53]
BingoBoingo Maybe your ergot friend can reveal the truth in a spiritual experience? [19:54]
asciilifeform adlai: 'will of allah' thread [19:54]
adlai [19:54]
assbot The Departed - Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yourself. - YouTube ... ( ) [19:54]
adlai !s will of allah [19:55]
assbot 4 results for 'will of allah' : [19:55]
adlai aka "mutation testing"? [19:56]
assbot Logged on 14-11-2014 21:29:47; asciilifeform: the idea in the article can (and has) been rephrased like this. if you remove all the 'suggestively-named strings' like 'understand' - and replace with 'gensyms' - e.g., 100324 - does the resulting machine still do or even appear to do anything of interest? [19:56]
asciilifeform adlai: that was from the thread concerning famous article 'artificial intelligence and natural stupidity' [19:56]
punkman [19:58]
assbot Obama: 'We're building Iron Man' - YouTube ... ( ) [19:58]
adlai aka [19:58]
assbot ... ( ) [19:58]
assbot MIND ~ ... ( ) [19:58]
BingoBoingo From the mines, Micheal Jordan edition: "MJ used to tell Johnny that “Tiger Woods is an idiot. I tried to help him, but the kid’s gonna get caught.” (we all know how that turned out). In order for a girl to get to MJ, she needed to go through 4 undercover former narcotics detectives just to speak to Michael. She had to be approved by all 4 to make sure she wasn’t gonna say a damn word about MJ to anyone. So there’s MJ, n [19:58]
BingoBoingo ot the greatest character guy, but he sure was pretty smart." [19:58]
adlai (latter is google cache's htmlized pdf) [19:58]
* assbot removes voice from jixei_ [19:59]
* adlai would at least prefer a "tries hard but mostly fails", but will settle for "either retarted or usg" because it's 'nearly a laugh' [20:01]
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punkman [20:06]
assbot Consensus Round Table — Medium ... ( ) [20:06]
shinohai "the Bock Size Increase" [20:09]
asciilifeform brock size. [20:09]
punkman large bocks are a good thing [20:09]
BingoBoingo Large brocks are bad for the children [20:12]
shinohai kazing [20:12]
adlai deedbot-: [20:21]
assbot ... ( ) [20:21]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [20:21]
* adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has left #bitcoin-assets ("WeeChat 1.3") [20:23]
mircea_popescu << da fuck does that even mean [20:25]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 22:55:24; assbot: Obama: 'We're building Iron Man' - YouTube ... ( ) [20:25]
mircea_popescu be that as it may, in further other news, [20:27]
assbot ... ( ) [20:27]
mircea_popescu WHEN: Saturday, January 23, 2016, 9:00 am-5:00 pm << lol two day lead-in ? desperation is dripping off. [20:28]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. - [20:29]
mircea_popescu to quote, "name's Pitt, and you ain't talkin' your ass outta this shit." [20:29]
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asciilifeform << dun wanna make pete_dushenski cry, but this is a ~terrible~ summary, if i were whacked over the head and forgot about my patches, and had to re-learn them from that article, i'd have nfi what they were and why. [20:36]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 23:26:12; deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. - [20:36]
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asciilifeform (no discussion of how and why we ended up with static build, omitting the whole pogo thing, astonishingly foggy description of what orphans/bastards were and WHY they had to go, i could go on, and on) [20:37]
mircea_popescu not very good homework huh. [20:38]
asciilifeform dreadful. [20:39]
asciilifeform sadly i can find no other word. [20:39]
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asciilifeform 'Unsigned integers differ from signed integers in that the latter include both positive and negative integers whereas the former include only positive integers.' << this is wrong in at least two places [20:42]
mircea_popescu myeah. [20:46]
mircea_popescu the sign bit is the difference. [20:46]
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mircea_popescu !up circ-user-AYc7q [20:47]
-assbot- You voiced circ-user-AYc7q for 30 minutes. [20:47]
* assbot gives voice to circ-user-AYc7q [20:47]
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BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Any news on the Blizard front? [20:51]
mircea_popescu moar other news [20:52]
assbot ... ( ) [20:52]
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mircea_popescu Dec 22 17:01:42 in other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914. [20:58]
mircea_popescu so i'm guessing... another 2-3 weeks for full sync, making a trb full sync take just about two months on a reasonable box. [20:58]
mircea_popescu if only we had larger blocks. [20:58]
mircea_popescu (actually, if only we had correctly implemented, ie multithreaded and non-io-idiotic, block verifier) [20:59]
BingoBoingo So next year will be 3 months to sync, 2018 4 months, 2019 5 months etc. [21:03]
mircea_popescu well... i would say 50^ of these two months are roughly due to the last year or so. so basically we'll be seeing +1 month / year indefinitely, as blocks can't get any fuller. [21:04]
mircea_popescu by which math, quoite, 6 in 2020, 12 in 2026, two years by 2038 (when something or the other will be fixed in boost, apud satoshi) [21:05]
BingoBoingo At least this gives a reasonable target of 2020-2026 for less shitty block verifier [21:07]
mircea_popescu hopefully. [21:08]
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* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [21:08]
pete_dushenski i literally spent the last 3 hours in channel, typing away, wondering why assbot wasn't picking up my links, totally unawares that i hadn't voiced myself. that's some kind of new low. [21:09]
pete_dushenski hurr durr is me [21:09]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: It appears you failed the development history portion of your comprehensive exam. Must retake. [21:09]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: [21:09]
assbot An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [21:09]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell ben_vulpes you'll be pleased to find your trb history prominently linked in part ii :) [21:10]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:10]
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pete_dushenski or maybe ben will be choked that i only mentioned him on the shitty part of the history thus far, who knows [21:10]
pete_dushenski anyways, small updates made as per asciilifeform's several suggestions [21:11]
pete_dushenski << [21:12]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 22:48:28; BingoBoingo: << 7! [21:12]
assbot DJ KHALED, AKON & TI "We Takin' Over" - YouTube ... ( ) [21:12]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code. [21:13]
BingoBoingo But props to pete_dushenski for trying to write for the comprehensive exam at this time. [21:13]
pete_dushenski i did read come, while some of it made sense, much was chinese. but having gone through the process undoubtedly gave me the tools needed to launch my own public node. so there's that. [21:17]
pete_dushenski s/come/some (code) [21:17]
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pete_dushenski s/having gone/going [21:17]
pete_dushenski i must need a drink [21:18]
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pete_dushenski << pretty sure 99% of the internet is "smart like bill". lotta good it does them. [21:20]
assbot ... ( ) [21:20]
* Kushedout is now known as Kushed [21:20]
shinohai [21:25]
assbot Pieter Wuille: "Opt-in RBF is not theft. It's indicating that you're not sure whether what you're submitting is the final form of the transaction" WTF ?!? : btc ... ( ) [21:25]
pete_dushenski << no objection here. [21:27]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch. [21:27]
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asciilifeform pete_dushenski: [21:39]
assbot An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [21:39]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: point taken. will add 'portatronic'. [21:40]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: also recall the glibc agonies [21:41]
asciilifeform these were the stimulus for the whole dns thermonuke thing [21:41]
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mod6 <+mircea_popescu> Dec 22 17:01:42 Iin other news, "blocks" : 182731, << same system is now "blocks" : 347914. << almost there! [21:42]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> if only we had larger blocks. << srsly right? [21:42]
mircea_popescu in yet other other news, [21:43]
assbot ... ( ) [21:43]
mod6 pete_dushenski: if I may be so bold, Sir: Some helpful info you may find in the monthly statements from the foundation. [21:43]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: Anyways the way comprehensive exams work is you gotta rewrite the thing either over the summer term or next semester from scratch. Hopefully before you next write for the comprehensive exam you read code. << word. [21:43]
asciilifeform ^ [21:44]
asciilifeform incidentally pete_dushenski doesn't have to write a history if he doesn't feel like it [21:44]
asciilifeform but if he does, it ought to chip away at rather than add to the confusion, imho. [21:44]
* BingoBoingo merely offering these comments so that at some point in the future members of our cult may be able to unironically honor each other with the title Doktor [21:44]
mod6 mircea_popescu: thanks for taking the time to search through the code today and write it up. [21:45]
mircea_popescu "I still haven't found anyone that is asking for RBF." << pretty muchg the definitive word on that derpage. [21:46]
asciilifeform wtf is rbf ? [21:46]
asciilifeform royal bank of fucktard ? [21:46]
mircea_popescu there is exactly 0 demang for all the crap these dudes keep trying to paint as "innovation". [21:47]
mircea_popescu i understand that they have no option, being unable to do anything and ambitious enough to want to be seen doing things. nevertheless. [21:47]
BingoBoingo wtf is rbf ? << Yet another weirdo script for double spending unconfirmed transactions with a higher fee. Only pheature is being more polite than just doing it as has always been possible [21:48]
mircea_popescu mod6 it wasn't that bad. but there's 1-200 man-hours in there easy going through all those cases and justifying them. not to mention that the ones that will need rewriting most llikely amount to two or three total rewrites of the codebase anyway. [21:48]
mircea_popescu but such are the father's pistols. if only he were less of a drunk. [21:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform rbf aka "replace by fee" is a nutty idea of peter todd that got a sour treatment hre a whole ago, but for incomprfehensible reasons, let's say, managed to obtain wuile's support. [21:49]
pete_dushenski mod6: i actually found the monthly really very helpful, and i'm sure that i'll continue to find them of value. they're essential resources for shallowing out the steep learning curve :) [21:49]
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pete_dushenski *monthly reports [21:49]
mircea_popescu or otherwise we could say the reasons are thoroughly comprehensible as they are reprehensible and just hang the lot. [21:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wouldn't it already be a thing if we had the fee-based mempool sorter ? [21:50]
mircea_popescu in a sense. not really. [21:50]
asciilifeform i.e. one could displace an unconfirmed tx of fee f by broadcasting doublespend where fee > f, at least with a certain nonzero probability [21:51]
mircea_popescu the way this works is that i can say "take this and pay bob and keep a cent" and then later come and say "take this and pay alice instead and keep two cents", making the later guaranteed to overtake the former. [21:51]
mod6 602 instances of numeric wizardy, yup. lot to track down there. but, thanks again. it needed doing. [21:51]
mircea_popescu meanwhile in a sane mempool scheme, a 2 cent payment does not guaranteedly remove a 1 cent one from the mempool. [21:51]
mircea_popescu maybe the cutoff is at a tenth of a cent ? [21:51]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i can definitely say that the trb history is adding to ~my~ confusion, but i don't see that as something to be avoided. my hope is that i'll eventually make enough sense of this to relay it concisely to others. still much work to do, no doubt. [21:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how did his scheme ~guarantee~ ? [21:52]
asciilifeform seems to me that a miner can stuff any valid tx into a block [21:52]
mircea_popescu yeah, there is that. [21:52]
mircea_popescu but you know, the miners will implement whatever pr-derps tell them to!111 [21:52]
mircea_popescu because "important personalities and leaders of bitcoin" and whatnot. [21:52]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i must agree with BingoBoingo: sadly, reading the actual code is not optional [21:52]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: observe that even mircea_popescu has put on the apocalyptic gas mask and reads. [21:53]
asciilifeform the ultimate authority on what the crock of shit actually does is the selfsame crock of shit. [21:54]
mircea_popescu lol wut is this! [21:54]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i read the patches, though admittedly little code. i'm probably not even competent enough to need gas mask though, so no worries. amor fati. [21:54]
asciilifeform somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion. [21:54]
mircea_popescu << "sorry, we've had some reports of thefts lately" [21:55]
assbot ... ( ) [21:55]
asciilifeform я русский бы выучил только за то что им разговаривал ленин (tm) (r) [21:55]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that chick looks like she is eating a lemon or what [21:55]
mircea_popescu well... she is. [21:56]
mircea_popescu (lemon = old fag) [21:56]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Much to be said for the learning value of patch by hand in addition to doing V-presses [21:58]
pete_dushenski << bitcoin's too broken this year [21:58]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 22:07:22; adlai: ok. is there another conf anytime soon? [21:58]
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mircea_popescu soo... apparently most of medium's visitors are from... india. and brazil. [22:01]
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pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: true enough. relatedly, 'tevye' is now running like a champ, keeping up with even asciilifeform's s00perbalticn0de. the difference ? aws banhammer. [22:02]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: quite possibly awshammer is obsolete [22:02]
pete_dushenski possibly or not possibly, it's the only thing i changed between yesterday and today. and the lag is gone. [22:03]
* pete_dushenski to dinner, appreciates all input this eve. [22:03]
asciilifeform malleus has same effect but more surgically precise. [22:03]
mod6 i conducted a second live-fire test today with the changes submitted by mircea_popescu & asciilifeform, here are the results: [22:03]
assbot ... ( ) [22:03]
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asciilifeform mod6: neato [22:04]
mircea_popescu mod6 seems all good ? [22:05]
mod6 Everything looks ok to me. When not specifying a highs or lows flag, txn went through just fine no malleation. When '-lows' flag was passed, txn went through just fine, no malleation. WHen the '-highs' flag was passed, txns were malleated, as expected. [22:06]
mircea_popescu incidentally, and unrelatedly to the "magic numbers" avenue of trb improvement : one obvious anbd cheap hardening for trb would be to allow the user control of entropy source. [22:06]
mircea_popescu it is plainly inconceivable anyone uses a wallet for payments and doesn't do this. [22:07]
mircea_popescu yet from what i know 99% actually do just that. [22:07]
mod6 So yep, pretty much same results as yesterday, althought it is noteable that not passing any flag at all ; no txns were dropped on the floor. They wern't malleated yesterdayr either, so it could have just been lots of spam yesterday or something similar. [22:07]
mod6 But noteable. [22:07]
mircea_popescu this includes most "bitcoin businesses" in fiat. [22:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this means zapping openssl, realize. [22:08]
asciilifeform is the only reason i didn't do it. [22:08]
mircea_popescu i realise. [22:08]
mircea_popescu well... we also have to eval the new scp251 or w/e package. [22:08]
mircea_popescu mod6 spam is roughly 2x what it was yest. only 6.4k or so txn, vs 9k yest, however 65+mb worth [22:08]
mod6 ok interesting. [22:09]
mircea_popescu oldest txn still from the 18th. [22:09]
mircea_popescu now of course, what exactly is the mempool as far as each node is concerned varies, and the miner's nodes especially. so it's an iffy thing. anyway. [22:10]
mod6 re: entropy topic, perhaps ya, we can do something like this when we have a crypto lib 'eh? [22:10]
mircea_popescu mod6 i don't think we can not read the wtf is that thing called [22:10]
mircea_popescu libsecp256k1 [22:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i found the prb ecdsa thing quite distasteful [22:10]
mircea_popescu can you be specific ? [22:10]
asciilifeform not because it was written by hitler, but because the thing is 50x the mass it needs to be. [22:11]
asciilifeform as demonstrated by the nano-ecc folks [22:11]
mircea_popescu maybe. [22:11]
mod6 hm [22:12]
asciilifeform << thread. [22:12]
assbot Logged on 19-12-2015 22:12:24; asciilifeform: IF I CAN'T READ IT IN AN EVENING it is a turd [22:12]
mircea_popescu it's widely deployed. [22:12]
mircea_popescu it'll have to be read. [22:12]
asciilifeform l0l aha. [22:12]
asciilifeform like openssl. [22:12]
mircea_popescu " Bitcoin is described by enthusiasts as potentially being bigger than the Internet itself (a claim I can’t seem to understand, considering that Bitcoin is an Internet-powered technology)," [22:12]
mircea_popescu what is wrong with these idiots. [22:12]
asciilifeform btw does mircea_popescu intend to read the winblowz nt source too ? [22:13]
asciilifeform widely deployed !1111 [22:13]
mircea_popescu if i were in that business. [22:14]
mats [22:22]
assbot U.S. Military Now In Control of Syrian Air Base | Defensionem ... ( ) [22:22]
asciilifeform << lulzy, from same www [22:25]
assbot The Rise and Fall of the Argentine Air Force | Defensionem ... ( ) [22:25]
mats why nobody is talking about how usg is actively violating .sy sovereignty, idk [22:25]
asciilifeform no mention of kurt tank in the ^ oddly [22:25]
mats int'l law: for other people that are not usg. [22:25]
asciilifeform mats: usg does not believe in the sovereignty of any other crown anywhere [22:25]
asciilifeform this is not a mega-seekrit [22:25]
mats yes [22:26]
asciilifeform << oddity of the day. [22:33]
assbot 苏联歌曲《田野上坦克轰鸣》"На поле танки грохотали" - 中文版 - YouTube ... ( ) [22:33]
asciilifeform ^ perhaps only funny to phf and i. [22:33]
asciilifeform lulzy comments [22:34]
asciilifeform e.g., 'brothers, we will take washington together, you'll see' [22:35]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mircea_popescu << lulfest [22:36]
gribble The operation succeeded. [22:36]
assbot dpaste: 0SRXEVV: Terrill v. Gawker ... ( ) [22:36]
* adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:49]
BingoBoingo Moar energy lulz [22:50]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [22:50]
deedbot- [Qntra] Concerns About United States Coal Industry Intensify - [22:50]
BingoBoingo post updated. Forgot to close it with "Sorry for your loss" [22:51]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [22:54]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 405.87, vol: 8766.54447752 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.332, vol: 8124.70728 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.69, vol: 27213.50172144 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 395.0, vol: 4.64326783 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 411.16152, vol: 79649.22250000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 407.44999, vol: 777.80560536 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 415.494947755, vol: 110.20573996 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [22:54]
BingoBoingo ;;more [22:54]
gribble average: 409.260062078 [22:54]
adlai trinque: deedbot- constipated again? [22:54]
mats asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound [23:04]
trinque adlai: its behind was behind when I checked a few minutes ago [23:07]
trinque was gagging on orphans, and now is processing blocks after retarting btcd [23:09]
* trinque shakes his head [23:09]
trinque adlai: deed should crap when it catches up; if it doesn't I'll be back later to kick it some more [23:09]
thestringpuller btcd the go thing? [23:09]
thestringpuller didn't conformal stop supporting btcd? [23:09]
trinque that would not surprise me [23:10]
adlai trinque: thank you for checking [23:10]
trinque yw. bbl [23:10]
thestringpuller trinque: y u no use trb? [23:10]
* adlai recommends people read the last submission... rediscovered it while browsing a bathroom bookshelf [23:11]
adlai for the classically-challenged lurkers: it's the last chapter of The Once and Future King, by T. H. White [23:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform amusingly, the whole shebang's not worth 10mn. [23:14]
mircea_popescu whether that may mean gawker or tinder. [23:14]
mircea_popescu int'l law: for other people that are not usg. << it's widely reported in ru and chinese. "everyone" [23:15]
mircea_popescu the arabs also aren't all that keen. [23:15]
asciilifeform << cruddy ocr from cryptome [23:17]
assbot Logged on 22-01-2016 02:01:27; mats: asciilifeform: whats with this dpaste? dropped characters, spelling errors abound [23:17]
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asciilifeform !up gabriel_laddel [23:18]
* assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel [23:18]
gabriel_laddel [23:19]
mircea_popescu does anyone want CPU: 2 x Intel E5645 6x2x2.4GHz; RAM: 96GB; 8x180GB SSD for any purpose ? [23:19]
assbot ... ( ) [23:19]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: what, for free? [23:19]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: believe or not, i once wrote to the various folks claiming to have the 6216 [23:19]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel no, for money o.O [23:19]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: back in... '09 [23:19]
asciilifeform got a reply, even [23:19]
asciilifeform one antiquarian type offered it, for 400 or so [23:20]
ben_vulpes << strictly disallowed in my shop [23:20]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 13:38:10; mircea_popescu: SPACE ALLIGNMENT!!!1 who! why! jesus. [23:20]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: do continue. [23:20]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: the story ends there. [23:20]
mircea_popescu in other interbuttistic news, [23:21]
assbot ... ( ) [23:21]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: the thing i wanted to do would've required several, and i lacked the dough at the time. [23:21]
asciilifeform plus the possibility of scam [23:21]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: How many, exactly? [23:21]
asciilifeform at least 8. [23:22]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: it should be possible to test them before purchase, right? [23:22]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: how on earth do you propose to do THAT ? [23:22]
ben_vulpes << dunno about this. laborious for certain, and would make the whole thing 10x more likely to 'fit in head'. [23:22]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability [23:22]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: wtf? [23:22]
asciilifeform how does altering whitespace do anything for fit-in-head. [23:22]
asciilifeform GET A SANE EDITOR folks [23:22]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: to vendor: "if this is the real deal it should be able to run this program [include ascii file here], if it fries, I'm not buying it." [23:22]
BingoBoingo whitespace is all about fits in eyes, not head [23:23]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: you do understand that these parts don't socket, right ? [23:23]
gabriel_laddel "send me photos of output" [23:23]
ben_vulpes consistency of code shape is a thing for mortals like myself [23:23]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: I do not. [23:23]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: so how do I run a program on one of these things without a socket connection? [23:24]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: you mount it to a board [23:24]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: and what, load in a binary? [23:24]
gabriel_laddel can I unmount it afterwards without breaking it? [23:25]
asciilifeform [23:25]
assbot ... ( ) [23:25]
asciilifeform and no. [23:25]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: Isn't the whole purpose of an FPGA that I can program it in place? [23:25]
asciilifeform incidentally there ~was~ once a socket for these (pga299) [23:25]
ben_vulpes << and how do you feel about mixed carriage returns and crlfs? [23:26]
assbot Logged on 21-01-2016 13:56:38; mircea_popescu: it's bad enough in a project. in a same file it's insufferable. [23:26]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes meh. they're equally stupid, but shouldn't get in the way of anything. [23:26]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: fpga is pretty much never mounted in a socket (the low end xilinx cpld, e.g., 95xx series, do come in plcc - but high pin count makes this a bitch) [23:27]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: btw why do you prefer tabs to 4 spaces? [23:27]
mircea_popescu it's in the log! [23:27]
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mod6 mircea_popescu: qq, would you be alright with this error message, as opposed to yours which has a line number in it: printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed in key.h:Sign()"); [23:27]
ben_vulpes hm [23:27]
mircea_popescu mod6 sure. [23:28]
* mod6 is a bit worried that we may have to additionally maintain possible changing line numbers. [23:28]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: the other thing is that my understanding is that the 6216 was never produced in serious quantity [23:28]
mircea_popescu it's too soon for that, i guess. [23:28]
mod6 ok cool. I think an error like that narrows it down pretty good. [23:28]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: surely we can turn up eight of them. [23:28]
mircea_popescu (you have to understand - in principle, the extra maintenance is a mark of both fit in headness and "we really read these patches") [23:28]
mircea_popescu so it's not a bad thing. but maybe not its time yet. [23:28]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: it isn't like they're being used for something useful anywhere else. [23:28]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: you can turn up as many as you like and mount'em yourself. [23:29]
mod6 mircea_popescu: ya, not a bad thing at all. but yeah, maybe eventually we move to that once the source "cools down" so to speak. [23:30]
mircea_popescu aha. [23:30]
* mircea_popescu shudders at the simple count of how many return fail; there are that don't say anything else. [23:31]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: To be clear, the part # for this is: XC6216-2HQ240C? [23:31]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: there were at least four package variants. [23:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he's after the legendary 'dragonfly' fpga. [23:32]
mircea_popescu i was listening to see what's that all about. [23:32]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: you ever design a pcb of whatever kind ? [23:33]
* adlai (~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai) has left #bitcoin-assets ("WeeChat 1.3") [23:33]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: nope. [23:33]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: got any phriendz who have ? [23:33]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: nope. [23:33]
asciilifeform make some. [23:34]
* asciilifeform was not always a burned out old man, was once an eager sort of kid, like gabriel_laddel [23:35]
* asciilifeform even bought first fpga as a schoolboy without understanding that it will have to be mounted somewhere. still have it. [23:36]
asciilifeform wasn't up to making a pqfp144 0.5mm pitch pad for it in the kitchen. [23:37]
* justanotheruser has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:47]
BingoBoingo ;;nethash [23:47]
gribble 804048104.027 [23:47]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [23:47]
gribble Current Blocks: 394385 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 750 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [23:47]
* assbot removes voice from gabriel_laddel [23:49]
* justanotheruser (~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:57]
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