Forum logs for 17 Jan 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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thestringpuller decentralized bitbet? [00:03]
thestringpuller [00:03]
danielpbarron such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no [00:05]
thestringpuller but that's what oracles are for [00:07]
asciilifeform 'A key feature of Augur is tradeable Reputation. The total amount of Reputation is a fixed quantity, determined upon the launch of Augur. Holding Reputation entitles its owner to report on the outcomes of events, after the events occur. Reputation tokens are similar in other respects to Bitcoins: they are divisible to eight decimal places, they are accounted for by summing over unspent transaction outputs, and they can be sent [00:07]
asciilifeform between users.' [00:07]
asciilifeform ^ lol! [00:07]
asciilifeform srsly ? [00:07]
thestringpuller danielpbarron is in party. regenerate 5 hp per turn. :D [00:07]
thestringpuller caise ypi [00:07]
thestringpuller cause you're a crypto priest* [00:07]
danielpbarron decentralized bitbet like counterparty is decentralized mpex; just replaces the infrastructure (with something worse) [00:08]
asciilifeform i'm not averse to seeing actual solutions to 'decentralized xxxxx,' but they inevitably fall short re: 'democracy-proofing' [00:09]
asciilifeform who wants democracy pus in his meal ? [00:09]
thestringpuller !s democracy-proofing [00:09]
assbot 0 results for 'democracy-proofing' : [00:09]
thestringpuller care to elaborate sir asciilifeform ? [00:09]
thestringpuller or is it Dr. asciilifeform [00:10]
asciilifeform aka sybil, dos, etc. attacks [00:10]
asciilifeform !s sybil [00:10]
assbot 34 results for 'sybil' : [00:10]
asciilifeform there we go. [00:10]
thestringpuller how does that prevent democracy? (a sybil attack)? [00:10]
asciilifeform the basic idea is that meat puppets are not in any fundamental way different from other types of puppet. [00:10]
asciilifeform and must be dealt with through same mechanisms. [00:10]
asciilifeform the 'tradeable reputation' thing sounds disastrous. [00:11]
asciilifeform perhaps i'm just thick. [00:11]
thestringpuller ah. i understand your viewpoint tho. [00:11]
thestringpuller it all depends on volume of puppet imo. [00:12]
thestringpuller or maybe everyone is a puppet of some sort. that's a little beyond me tho [00:12]
asciilifeform in point of fact, even our system of reputation (wot) is theoretically 'tradeable', in that somebody could - in principle - sell his privkey to satan [00:12]
danielpbarron of course it's disastrous; it's like giving the -otc folk power based on their total rating score (which they build up through trivial deals) [00:13]
asciilifeform but baking tradeability in as a matter of course - is another thing [00:13]
asciilifeform lunacy, imho [00:13]
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thestringpuller isn't this classic dilemma of selling soul for some benefit/value [00:13]
thestringpuller you only have one to trade. [00:13]
asciilifeform which they build up through trivial deals << aha. this is actually an age-old plague on 'ebay' and the like. [00:13]
thestringpuller tis also irreverisble in nature. [00:13]
asciilifeform sc4mz0r cultivates rating with 100,000 'a+++++ gr34t d34lz' [00:14]
asciilifeform of fivebux each [00:14]
asciilifeform then proceeds to sell, e.g., nonexisting cars. [00:14]
danielpbarron the joke in otc is "Smooth TM" [00:14]
thestringpuller this is how athero was able to launch ziggap [00:14]
thestringpuller he sold shares in non existant broker bitcoin selling thing compan [00:15]
thestringpuller y [00:15]
thestringpuller ;;gettrust aethero [00:15]
gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user aethero: Level 1: -1, Level 2: 0 via 3 connections. Graph: | WoT data: | Rated since: Wed May 2 19:24:52 2012 [00:15]
danielpbarron what with all the hard fork drama, i'd say anything that can be kept centralized should probably remain centralized [00:16]
thestringpuller danielpbarron: i think the hardfork drama is fundamentally seeing split, or cold war in bitcoin [00:16]
thestringpuller east vs. west. [00:16]
thestringpuller capitalist vs. socialist [00:16]
thestringpuller etc. [00:16]
asciilifeform i have said before that an official usg altcoin is inevitable. [00:17]
asciilifeform gavincoin's probably it. [00:17]
thestringpuller yet we'll still pay taxes in bezzles? [00:17]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: gavincoin is not made to replace usd, but to bleed bitcoin [00:17]
thestringpuller ofc, but USG coin that is used to also do what? annoy us out of our money like some comcast nonsenese? [00:18]
asciilifeform you will have to ask the fellow who thought it up [00:18]
asciilifeform once he sits down on mircea_popescu's stake. [00:18]
asciilifeform perhaps he'll do a q&a [00:18]
danielpbarron "I am slowely being impaled on a sharped stake. Ask me anything." [00:19]
asciilifeform !b 5 [00:19]
assbot Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:19]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: I do not see how anyone will contribute to usgavincoin when Buterin's waterfall explodes right after inception. [00:20]
thestringpuller Spend X money to build hoover dam and it explodes less than a year while runnign? [00:21]
asciilifeform seems clear that they'll pour the water on the other side. [00:21]
asciilifeform not on their own. (of the fork) [00:21]
thestringpuller But isn't this like someone trying to power a water wheel by simply running up stream with buckets of water they collect downstream? [00:22]
asciilifeform collected. [00:22]
asciilifeform or rather, robbed. [00:22]
danielpbarron there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG? [00:22]
thestringpuller It's still non-trivial effort tho, to run long term [00:22]
thestringpuller and wasteful. like fast explosion vs slow ember [00:22]
thestringpuller at least in my mind [00:22]
asciilifeform i'm not seeing any serious evidence of 'long-term' thinking on usg's part. [00:23]
thestringpuller i can only imagine poor peon running up stream trying to keep water wheel moving [00:23]
asciilifeform i can easily picture an 'atomic war' where every btc which usg has at some point begged, borrowed, stole, or can prevail upon a vassal to give up control of - will be placed on market in a 'last hurrah' [00:24]
thestringpuller danielpbarron: re: mass adoption << I always felt people wanted mass adoption so price raises. [00:24]
thestringpuller Which is perverted thinking at best. [00:25]
thestringpuller starving marvin in kenya buys a bitcoin with his 50000 kenyan shillings he saved up over the course of 5 years... [00:25]
danielpbarron i don't think they are so rational; i suspect it has more to do with "going viral" like a clever youtube video, and having been in on it before it was trendy [00:26]
danielpbarron although 2014 might have put an end to that [00:27]
thestringpuller i never understood when going viral became the equivalent of becoming valuable... [00:29]
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asciilifeform from the standpoint of vermin - yes, valuable [00:29]
asciilifeform all vermin envy the virus. [00:30]
thestringpuller black plague for all? [00:30]
thestringpuller but in all srsns, i thought the "popularity contest" died out by the end of high school [00:30]
thestringpuller now it seems the popularity contest is "the thing" [00:30]
thestringpuller 22:13 <+asciilifeform> i have said before that an official usg altcoin is [00:32]
thestringpuller ^- my bad. copy paste is bad with this one [00:32]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: (and that there is another one, where it wasn't. but i think we did this one before) << like 5 or 7 times. [00:42]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no << easier to "invent" stuff than understand stuff. just like it's easier to write new code than understand coding. [00:44]
mircea_popescu "whenever misreporting an event is worth more to your stake than it costs to buy back the lost reputation, you misreport the event. decentralized selective scamming ftw!" [00:46]
mircea_popescu "others will not readily understand how our implementation of 3 card monte is an implementation of 3 card monte, giving us an exploitable knowledge asymmetry - which makes this exactly an altcoin, which is why it's sensible to pretend we're like bitcoin" [00:47]
mircea_popescu etc [00:47]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap << not a very good example. he had amassed trust over time, and likely at a higher cost than what he made out of it. the controlling factor there was "insane guy stopped taking his pills one day." [00:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00041938 = 2.5582 BTC [-] [00:49]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i couldn't find good example on top of head. but was jist of it received? [00:50]
mircea_popescu sure [00:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: gavincoin's probably it. << no. in typical fashion they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official. [00:51]
mircea_popescu it really gets them the worst of both worlds, but hey, it's what committees get. no actual men there to take charge. [00:51]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG? << it could become a new brand of tide. [00:52]
mircea_popescu "bitcoin is now a detergent. finally a commodity !!!" [00:52]
asciilifeform they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official << with pretense every bit as thin as with 'tor'. [00:54]
mircea_popescu hence worst of both worlds. [00:55]
xiando I would prefer if they don't endorse that or anything and leave it alone. [01:02]
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mircea_popescu nothing gets left alone. [01:03]
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xiando I know, but I don't have to like it. :) [01:07]
mircea_popescu :p [01:08]
mircea_popescu hence the "leave britny alone" meme. [01:08]
mircea_popescu [01:10]
assbot LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE! - YouTube ... ( ) [01:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58803 @ 0.00042896 = 25.2241 BTC [+] {2} [01:20]
mircea_popescu so there's a small statue in buenos aires with a san martin quote i absolutely love. [01:23]
mircea_popescu "De lo que mis granaderos son capaces, solo lo sé yo. Quien los iguale habrá. Quien los exceda - no." [01:23]
mircea_popescu "what my grenadiers are capable of, only I know. their equals might be found. their superiors - no." [01:24]
mircea_popescu << who here lived in atlanta ? is this clinton-era-esque lulz legit ? [01:33]
assbot 'Extreme Makeover' home in Atlanta in foreclosure [01:33]
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mircea_popescu !up metsuno [01:35]
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mircea_popescu ahh assbot, so nice to be back. [01:36]
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mircea_popescu :) [01:43]
mircea_popescu anyone wanna do a 30 bux cc payment for me ? [01:43]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron ? [01:43]
danielpbarron cc not paypal? [01:43]
danielpbarron ya i guess [01:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45650 @ 0.00046921 = 21.4194 BTC [+] {3} [01:53]
mircea_popescu hory shit i had to pay half a tent of a bitcent in tx fees. HODL EVERYTHANG!!! MUST INCREASE BLOXSIZE PLOX! [01:55]
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mircea_popescu !up decimation [02:00]
-assbot- You voiced decimation for 30 minutes. [02:00]
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mircea_popescu !up dub [02:01]
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decimation I find the 'go' rant amusing. Would asciilifeform similarly object to python? I believe it can run on mips [02:01]
mircea_popescu you hate go too ? [02:01]
decimation I wouldn't call it 'hate' as much as 'utterly uninterested' [02:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23100 @ 0.00044949 = 10.3832 BTC [-] [02:03]
decimation I just can't imagine a future in which I will need to learn 'go' for work or pleasure [02:03]
mircea_popescu kinda my position too [02:03]
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decimation is this the paper in question? [02:11]
decimation ah I see that link only has a few pages of the book [02:18]
mircea_popescu "Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts" anyone here actually played planescape : torment ? [02:19]
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decimation apparently usg has decided to greatly limit (not completely stop) civil forfeiture at the federal level [02:28]
decimation outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy' [02:29]
mircea_popescu no ?! [02:29]
decimation [02:29]
assbot Holder limits seized-asset sharing process that split billions with local, state police - The Washington Post ... ( ) [02:29]
mircea_popescu seems more like a landgrab than anything ? [02:29]
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decimation how so? [02:29]
decimation well, it certainly curtails one form of civil forfeiture at the federal level, leaving a vacuum that can be filled at the state level, if the states so desire [02:30]
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mircea_popescu ah you're right. originally i read it as "we'll just keep more of it". [02:33]
mircea_popescu btw decimation assbot now allows wotization, pm it !up [02:33]
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asciilifeform the 'vacuum' will be filled by theft and robbery from the same place as before. [02:35]
asciilifeform because how else. [02:35]
mircea_popescu in other news, was a great car. [02:35]
assbot ... ( ) [02:35]
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ben_vulpes did i crash assbot? [02:40]
mircea_popescu dun think so [02:41]
ben_vulpes nope. perhaps the otp machine? [02:41]
ben_vulpes what are the semantics for working with asswot? [02:42]
asciilifeform << we've arrived at the end of the line. u.s. newspapers print articles concerning reddit threads. [02:43]
assbot This powerful Reddit thread reveals how the poor get by in America - The Washington Post ... ( ) [02:43]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell manamex you're joining channels and then applying your cloak. FYI. [02:43]
gribble The operation succeeded. [02:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19600 @ 0.00047268 = 9.2645 BTC [-] [02:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47100 @ 0.00047621 = 22.4295 BTC [+] {2} [02:46]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes like in chan ? pm it !up it responds with otp, pm it !v otp [02:47]
kakobrekla !rate ben_vulpes test [02:48]
assbot Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. [02:48]
kakobrekla !rate ben_vulpes 1 test [02:48]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [02:48]
kakobrekla what do you mean it doesnt work ben_vulpes ? [02:48]
ben_vulpes that link refuses to resolve for me [02:48]
mircea_popescu yeah, scam error report. [02:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71107 @ 0.00047967 = 34.1079 BTC [+] {3} [02:49]
kakobrekla ;;isup [02:50]
gribble is up [02:50]
assbot ... ( ) [02:50]
ben_vulpes [02:52]
assbot anonymous's paste: 96220 ... ( ) [02:52]
mircea_popescu PING ( 56(84) bytes of data. [02:53]
mircea_popescu 64 bytes from icmp_seq=1 ttl=49 time=252 ms [02:53]
mircea_popescu 64 bytes from icmp_seq=2 ttl=49 time=248 ms [02:53]
mircea_popescu l'etrange. [02:53]
kakobrekla yes my shit banned your shit. [02:53]
mircea_popescu ban shee! [02:54]
ben_vulpes mk [02:54]
ben_vulpes lmk if that changes, yeah? [02:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform washington post = newspaper in the sense projects = neighbourhoods. [02:58]
mircea_popescu the hoods part, okay. [02:58]
asciilifeform then what newspaper remains in usa ? [02:58]
mircea_popescu hum. [02:58]
mircea_popescu i guess kinda blighted. [02:59]
asciilifeform wash. post is 'the other' nyt. [02:59]
ben_vulpes "newspaper" in the trad'l sense of "town rag" still exists in various municipalities. "grey lady", not so much. [02:59]
mircea_popescu more like the other Forward. [02:59]
asciilifeform these two fishwraps are almost always sold in bins together. [02:59]
kakobrekla try now ben_vulpes [02:59]
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ben_vulpes ty kakobrekla [02:59]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu may be thinking of 'washington times [03:00]
asciilifeform ' [03:00]
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mircea_popescu i never heard of that one. [03:00]
ben_vulpes !rate kakobrekla 3 wot steward [03:00]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [03:00]
asciilifeform at any rate, the article is intensely lulzy [03:01]
ben_vulpes !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.kakobrekla.3:71dbfce4f8bb960b54b95894d306db892a6f30da3fc5776c31b3ef6f2f45b0c4 [03:01]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 3 with note: wot steward [03:01]
kakobrekla works, cool [03:01]
ben_vulpes neat [03:01]
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decimation alright works [03:02]
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kakobrekla yeah im surprised myself [03:03]
mircea_popescu < < lawl. [03:03]
assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( ) [03:03]
mircea_popescu apparently wikipedia deleted a page discussing the "forward" as a generic name for socialist publications after someone mocked obama for it. [03:03]
decimation asciilifeform: lol so apparently reddit is where bums hang out? [03:03]
mircea_popescu been saying that for a while!11 [03:04]
decimation the other amusing point that the article fails to bring up: if the 'poor' must pay to live in a dense shitty city, why not move to the country? [03:05]
asciilifeform decimation: presumably, moving costs something [03:05]
mircea_popescu the poor flock to the city since the times of rabelais for the same reason : you can eat without working there. [03:06]
mircea_popescu not so in the country [03:06]
decimation if living off gov't checks anyway, wouldn't a trailer park somewhere stretch the bezzlars? [03:06]
asciilifeform decimation: another interesting fact re: usa is that rental properties are scarce to nonexistent when you walk out of the high-density areas [03:06]
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decimation yeah that's probably true in most areas, except for the20year's huts in ohio [03:06]
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mircea_popescu hmm, no testament in english ? [03:08]
decimation but the basic bitch here reminds me of something like 'heavier things are heavier' [03:08]
decimation of course someone with a spare $bil to invest in a sony movie (for example) will make $0.5 bil profit [03:08]
asciilifeform testament ? [03:08]
decimation having fifty bux means your investment options are limited to your own stomach [03:09]
asciilifeform 5k - also stomach [03:09]
asciilifeform and arguably likewise 50k. [03:09]
decimation yeah pretty much [03:09]
mircea_popescu you know you can buy stocks online these days on about 1k i think ? [03:10]
asciilifeform lol stocks [03:10]
decimation what are you gonna do? buy shares of wal-mart and hope they go up 100x? [03:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31129 @ 0.00047521 = 14.7928 BTC [-] [03:10]
asciilifeform the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade [03:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform testament ? << [03:10]
ben_vulpes i'll settle for 8%/year [03:10]
assbot ... ( ) [03:10]
mircea_popescu decimation why 100x ? you proposed a 1bn - >1.5 bn deal. [03:11]
asciilifeform aha -that- testament [03:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform students (aka bums) in paris. right ? [03:11]
mircea_popescu why paris ? [03:11]
decimation even in that case, it's gonna take awhile before walmart stock goes from $1k to 1.5k [03:11]
mircea_popescu En l'an de mon trentiesme age, que toutes mes hontes j'euz beues, ne du tout fol, ne du tout saige non obstant maintes peines eues, lesquelles j'ay toutes receues soubz la main Thibault d'Aucigny ... [03:12]
mircea_popescu S'esvesque il est, signant les rues, qu'il soit le mien je le regny. [03:12]
mircea_popescu decimation films are some of the most risky investments out there you know. [03:12]
decimation yeah I'm using it as a somewhat poor example. my main point is that having $x mil to 'invest' allows one to bend over and pick up stuff that bums have no access to [03:13]
mircea_popescu i dispute this theory. [03:13]
mircea_popescu there is no significant advantage to size, and a serious problem to it. [03:13]
mircea_popescu buffett oft dwells on the matter : it's easy for krill to find a good meal, on account of being small. not so easy for whale. [03:13]
asciilifeform villon << [03:14]
asciilifeform ^ ru translation [03:14]
assbot ... ( ) [03:14]
decimation I suppose the principle at work here is that once one has $x, one finds no portion of x to be 'spare' [03:14]
mircea_popescu there's a decent english one by de verre [03:15]
mircea_popescu not sure if on the nets or not [03:15]
mircea_popescu decimation in any case spare works better at smaller size. [03:15]
asciilifeform rhyming translation ? [03:15]
asciilifeform (the linked one is also beautifully illustrated, as it happens) [03:15]
mircea_popescu essentially the principle being that you may find excellent "best actresses/cocksuckers", but not really "2nd best actresses/cocksuckers" in proportion. [03:15]
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mircea_popescu the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade << iirc it's about a dime/a quarter per lot, which lot is usually 1k shares, which can easily be 100k usd. [03:18]
mircea_popescu yes, much more than say the specialst pays (specialist doesn't pay). this is inconsequential. [03:18]
ben_vulpes << if you want to be front-run [03:18]
assbot Robinhood - Zero-Commission Stock Brokerage ... ( ) [03:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the street where i live, just a year or so ago, was covered in ads '$7 / trade111!' [03:18]
decimation well, it would be a big deal if you day trade all day [03:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but i'm willing to believe that there are newer, more appealing chumpatrons [03:19]
mircea_popescu decimation a horrible deal. imagine all the noise you'd be pouring into the market. [03:19]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there are at least a dozen honest online brokerages. [03:19]
asciilifeform and they all front-run. [03:19]
mircea_popescu to those, no doubt five million internet scams. [03:19]
mircea_popescu retail is SUPPOSED to be front run for crying out loud. [03:19]
decimation asciilifeform: sure, but you are generally talking about pennies per share [03:19]
asciilifeform at any rate, why would someone with no informational-asymmetric advantage want to buy stocks ? [03:20]
mircea_popescu to invest. [03:20]
decimation because that's where the trade bots put their earnings [03:20]
mircea_popescu to acquire a portion of the productively outlayed capital i nthe country. [03:20]
ben_vulpes [] outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy' << just look for the "apparent pedophilia rate" as evidenced by "he had kiddie pr0nz" to go up. [03:20]
asciilifeform ^ [03:20]
decimation yeah that will be interesting [03:21]
decimation suddenly everyone will be serious drug runner/terrorist/pedo [03:21]
asciilifeform or a sudden plague of 'illegal gun' [03:21]
asciilifeform (another exception in the new law) [03:21]
ben_vulpes everyone's trivially framed. [03:21]
mircea_popescu i read it thatthey may only confiscate the guns [03:21]
mircea_popescu but not the cars/cash. [03:21]
decimation in some states (illinois) you must register all your guns with the state [03:24]
ben_vulpes << stability manifolds [03:26]
assbot Watch Reid Wiseman's Vine "Even a 50kg mass does the same flipping maneuver. “Wild” to me! #science #SpaceVine" ... ( ) [03:26]
decimation amusing poettering interview [03:28]
assbot Interview: Lennart Poettering | Linux Voice ... ( ) [03:28]
decimation it's pretty obvious that the guy is a control freak who gets off on forcing his way [03:29]
decimation "So we started writing Systemd, and Red Hat didn’t like it at all. Red Hat management said: no, we’re going for Upstart, don’t work on that. So I said, OK, I’ll work on it in my free time. Eventually Red Hat realised that the problems we solved with Systemd were relevant, and were problems that needed to be solved, and that you couldn’t ignore them." [03:30]
* badon has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [03:30]
undata decimation: I wasn't aware of that particular detail [03:31]
undata tragic; upstart is a much simpler alternative [03:31]
decimation "So anyway, long story short, we came to the conclusion that Upstart is conceptually wrong, and it moved at glacial speeds. It also had the problem that Canonical tried very hard to stay in control of it. They made sure, with copyright assignment, that they made it really hard to contribute, but that’s what Linux actually lives off. You get these drive-by patches, as I would call them, where people see that something is broken, or [03:32]
decimation something could be improved. They do a Git checkout, do one change, send you it and forget about it." [03:32]
decimation he tries to make a halfass technical argument against Upstart, and then whines that it's hard to make commits [03:32]
decimation later on he describes people who like systemd as "progressive" and those who reject it as 'conservative' [03:34]
undata well that lays bare the abstractions rolling around in that gourd, doesn't it [03:34]
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mircea_popescu "Few pieces of software in history have been so fiercely debated as Systemd. " [03:59]
mircea_popescu really ? because why, because the author is 5 yo ? [03:59]
mircea_popescu how about you know, emacs wars ? [03:59]
asciilifeform 'In April was the jackal born, In June the rain-fed rivers swelled: 'Never in all my life,' said he, 'Have I so great a flood beheld.'' (orwell) [04:01]
mircea_popescu ". It’s growing all the time and now handles logging, device hotplugging events, networking, scheduled actions (like Cron) and much more. Almost every major Linux distribution has adopted Systemd, but there are still some unhappy campers out there," [04:01]
mircea_popescu uhm. happy campers = the entire foss community ? [04:01]
mircea_popescu the lulz is so thick, considering the playbook is identically replayed with the gavincoin [04:02]
mircea_popescu course, the prospect is a lot grim-er for linux, but hey. [04:02]
mircea_popescu "in the most superficial level, some used -h for help, and others ––help. It’s not uniform." << i can't name a tool that doesn't actually honor both. [04:03]
mircea_popescu but a fuckwit 20something discussing how "people have not played with unix at all" is, indeed, amusing. [04:03]
mircea_popescu "LV: And you never see them again! [04:04]
mircea_popescu LP: Yeah, and this is great – these are the people you want to have, because the vast majority of patches are actually of that kind. " [04:04]
mircea_popescu "because they have no political power - and that's what you want, a lot of lemmings" [04:04]
mircea_popescu anyway, im not reding this idiocy. [04:04]
asciilifeform i read it. it was a total snore. [04:05]
mircea_popescu anyway. there's nothing wrong with the people who didn't belong in foss in the first place finding their own way out, just like there's nothing wrong with the people who have no business in bitcoin finding their own way out. [04:06]
mircea_popescu kinda why "adoption" is meaningless. i don't care for anyone to "adopt" anything i do. i might care if they change to fit to it. but otherwise, good fucking luck, there's no value in having a bunch of pacific islanders speak english as if it were the retarded language they spoke before. [04:06]
mircea_popescu let them stick to what they know and be happy. [04:07]
mircea_popescu giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things. [04:08]
asciilifeform !b 4 [04:08]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [04:08]
mircea_popescu both are a horrible waste of beasts. [04:08]
decimation ;;ud pidgin [04:09]
gribble | the slang spoken by the locals in hawaii. people there do not speak hawaiian, they speak pidgin. to all my mainlander "friends": stop asking me fuckin stupid ... [04:09]
mircea_popescu in any case, the entire lennart gambit is that "actually smart people won't be able to find each other in our sea of lemmings" [04:10]
mircea_popescu kinda why stuff like the wot-foss i was discussing and even gossipd are so important [04:10]
decimation well, apparently he confirmed that redhat was itself a ship of lemmings, looking for a lemming-king, and lennart was their man [04:11]
mircea_popescu but also why a certain attitude to ineptitude, from the "affirmative action", "wopmen in tech" "don't say nigger" all the way to stupidities like the equalitarism in freenode's policies is so very important. and why linus' "fuck you" is such a major thing. [04:12]
mircea_popescu it's not gratuitous, all this. it provides a very valuable signal, both to the inferior and to the superior. [04:12]
mircea_popescu every time you see someone being stupid, piss on his face. this is important for them, and it's important for me. [04:12]
mircea_popescu tolerance is not the answer to any question worth asking, and it does not serve any purpose other than the general drowning in shit. which is not a desirable outcome in any case. [04:13]
mircea_popescu better off if half the "community" gets upset and moves on to collecting bugs or digging trenches or whatever, than if programming becomes a sort of passtime for trench diggers and worm afficionados. [04:14]
mircea_popescu /endrant [04:15]
mircea_popescu actually no, let's also add an illustration. [04:16]
assbot ... ( ) [04:16]
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mircea_popescu in other news, << the swiss franc situation is a disaster for 100s of k's of idiot romanians who refinanced their home mortgages in swiss francs to try and capture a half of a percent less interest. [04:33]
assbot APRECIERE FRANC ELVEȚIAN: Război cu stenograme Ana Birchall - Andreea Paul | DC News | De ce se intampla ... ( ) [04:33]
mircea_popescu that just turned into 20-30% more principal. [04:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00047521 = 7.9598 BTC [-] [04:41]
ben_vulpes ouch. [04:44]
mircea_popescu populists in parliament having a field day over it. [04:45]
mircea_popescu arrears set to go up from 15% to 25%ish [04:45]
mircea_popescu (romania, unlike the us, actually keeps track of unserviced retail debentures) [04:45]
mircea_popescu anyway, thassall for me. have fun b-a! [04:48]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:04]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [13:04]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [13:04]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [13:04]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [13:05]
mircea_popescu good morning asseteers! [13:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48550 @ 0.00049745 = 24.1512 BTC [+] {2} [13:05]
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davout guten tag [13:12]
davout so, re yesterday's convo about go and c it occurs to me that b-a will eventually have to have a reviewed & signed code repo [13:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14293 @ 0.00048366 = 6.913 BTC [-] {2} [13:14]
mircea_popescu this occurs to you through having read the logs re the new github model / how the bitcoin foundation works or independently ? [13:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22019 @ 0.00047979 = 10.5645 BTC [-] {2} [13:15]
davout well, you can't really build a good house without good bricks [13:16]
mircea_popescu right. [13:16]
mircea_popescu read the log thread in question tho, it's instructive. about how the point is to have code signed for having been read. [13:16]
davout you don't refer to yesterday's convo do you? [13:17]
davout !s signed code [13:17]
assbot 24 results for 'signed code' : [13:17]
davout meant yesterday's log as it seems it has come up quite a few times already :D [13:18]
mircea_popescu no. [13:18]
mircea_popescu this was a few weeks prior to the foundation's birth. [13:19]
mircea_popescu [13:19]
assbot Logged on 10-09-2014 11:54:21; mircea_popescu: other than proper cryptography for all foss, as discussed coupla days re gentoo overlays etc, i would fucking love for all lines of code to come with a counter. [13:19]
davout ty [13:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25821 @ 0.00047875 = 12.3618 BTC [-] [13:20]
davout it appears that if we want to make a proper apple pie from scratch we'll have to invent the universe first [13:23]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20000 @ 0.00005363 = 1.0726 BTC [+] {12} [13:24]
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mircea_popescu which is finbe [13:25]
mircea_popescu the current universe sucks anyway. [13:25]
davout it is fine indeed [13:25]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [13:26]
kakobrekla < [13:26]
assbot Logged on 17-01-2015 01:06:05; PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable [13:26]
assbot ... ( ) [13:26]
davout i have nfi what kind of workload it would represent to make some linux fork that's entirely reviewed, assume it'd be pretty massive [13:26]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla : can assbot match 32 char strings as keyids instead of names ? [13:27]
mircea_popescu so stuff like !gettrust mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 [13:27]
mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 is not registered in WoT. [13:27]
PeterL new voicing model, we still have to join #b-a before verifying otp [13:27]
mircea_popescu works so it simplifies deedbot design a lot ? [13:27]
mircea_popescu davout depends how much crap you're wiling to hoist overboard. [13:27]
kakobrekla how does it simplify ? [13:27]
davout yup [13:28]
mircea_popescu the workload pain will probably be far exceeded by the cries of horror of the large hordes of nobodies that can no longer "innovate", in the sense their gunk is no longer included in repos [13:28]
PeterL kakobrekla: are you pointing out my horrible spelling? :) [13:28]
kakobrekla new voicing model, we still have to join #b-a before verifying otp < yes, no session, recall? [13:28]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla 2.1. Bot extracts the signature keyid through a process homologuous to gpg -v -v [13:28]
mircea_popescu 2.2. Bot makes a request to assbot via pm, of the format ;;gpg info --key [13:28]
kakobrekla PeterL you are missing the link ? [13:28]
mircea_popescu that way, it wouldn't have to do two steps, just directly gettrust to a keyid. [13:28]
PeterL well, for gribble I have script that runs curl and gpg and pastes the result [13:28]
kakobrekla again : [13:28]
assbot ... ( ) [13:28]
PeterL for assbot, now I have to use the mouse to highlight the new link, and type the commands [13:29]
mircea_popescu PeterL process [13:29]
assbot ... ( ) [13:29]
PeterL aha, now I see it [13:29]
mircea_popescu he put that in thar jus fer you :D [13:29]
PeterL that's cool, thanks [13:29]
PeterL too early, can't read yet [13:30]
mircea_popescu how does it simplify ? << dja see what i mean ? [13:30]
kakobrekla ;;later tell ben_vulpes as requested, json; and [13:30]
gribble The operation succeeded. [13:30]
assbot ... ( ) [13:30]
assbot ... ( ) [13:30]
kakobrekla for which command ? [13:31]
kakobrekla i dont have gpg info command [13:31]
mircea_popescu i want !gettrust to match any 32 char string as a key rather than a name [13:31]
mircea_popescu so that !gettrust mircea_popescu 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 responds with "trust from mircea_popescu to mircea_popescu : so an so" [13:31]
kakobrekla yeah [13:31]
mircea_popescu that way two steps become one step and that's that. [13:32]
kakobrekla ill do it for gettrust but not others [13:32]
mircea_popescu all that's needed yes ty. [13:32]
kakobrekla k [13:32]
PeterL !rate kakobrekla 3 Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff [13:32]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [13:32]
PeterL !v assbot:PeterL.rate.kakobrekla.3:ad06b594522d33faffcdf84b870db76a3fbd1fcda55e860ddec83a58b3864168 [13:32]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 3 with note: Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff [13:32]
kakobrekla amazing [13:33]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [13:33]
PeterL is scoopbot still running? -hi [13:33]
scoopbot Hello PeterL! [13:33]
PeterL oh, good [13:33]
mircea_popescu are you a slut scoopbot ? -slut [13:34]
mircea_popescu a well, so much for ai. [13:34]
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davout [13:45]
decimation apparently obama also made remarks on backdoor encryption [13:45]
assbot ... ( ) [13:45]
assbot Lawfare › President Obama Comments on Back-doors in Encryption ... ( ) [13:45]
decimation or to be more precise, he failed to make remarks when asked the question [13:46]
mircea_popescu ow shit i forgot the porny link. [13:46]
mircea_popescu [13:46]
assbot ... ( ) [13:46]
decimation other than vague "we work with companies who also have families", which is exactly the same argument one gets from the local mobster I presume [13:46]
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mircea_popescu o hai chetty [13:47]
mircea_popescu decimation have you seen the "toasting the queen" thing ? [13:47]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu perhaps is even easier if i just allow for ? [13:47]
mircea_popescu that poor guy, he looks like a neurotic setter. [13:47]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla sure! [13:47]
mircea_popescu what's assbot key again ? [13:47]
decimation eh? I don't think so [13:48]
mircea_popescu decimation he goes to toast the queen. the athem's going on so queen ignores him. [13:48]
mircea_popescu lotta hay made out of how "the queen snubbed obama'. but the guy's just not very aware. which looked to me like a very very tired man that's being constantly pestered with advice and requirements by about 9 spinster women. [13:49]
kakobrekla assbot is 7C1FBEC924FBD66531A02AE3F95E4E395927DC9C [13:49]
mircea_popescu aka, the typical american child of 2010. [13:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60869 @ 0.00048599 = 29.5817 BTC [+] {4} [13:49]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla works for me, editing this spec. [13:49]
decimation yeah, actually from his rambling answer in the linked youtube (starting 45:30), there's very little evidence obama is even aware about the 'backdoor encryption' issue at all [13:50]
mircea_popescu honestly, i don't see it's a president's job, that. [13:51]
mircea_popescu and it's not how you ask the president that question, either. [13:51]
decimation well, certainly it ought to be something he answers in writing, in detail [13:51]
decimation the trouble is there's no method to compel an answer [13:51]
mircea_popescu this is roughly the equivalent of a company with 10k cab fleet having famously a weak alternator, and some reporter asking the CEO "what about the spinny trick ?" [13:51]
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mircea_popescu that's not what you say. you say, "as you may be aware, because this so and so weakness in this part of the engine that does that and this, some drivers are so and so.". guy needs an intro. [13:52]
mircea_popescu no, there shouldn't be a way to compel an answer. wtf ?! [13:52]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [13:53]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla can there be a /n after each otp before encryption pls. [13:54]
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mircea_popescu currently it bleeds into teh bash. dun wanna put an "echo "/n"" in there . [13:54]
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decimation well, there's an issue of policy here, which is "is a us person allowed to communicate in a manner outside the possibility of usg interception?" [13:55]
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mircea_popescu right. that should be the question. like that. [13:56]
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decimation because the implication of both cameron's and obama's answer is "no" [13:56]
mircea_popescu because that's why we go to school : so we can present our inquiries in such a way that OTHER PEOPLE can fucking grok wtf we want to know [13:56]
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decimation and that appears to completely contradict constitutional and court precedent [13:56]
decimation 'because terrorism' [13:56]
mircea_popescu decimation i bet you the guy does not even currently ~KNOW~ that that's what's being discussed. [13:57]
decimation cameron clearly does, but obama gave no evidence of it [13:57]
mircea_popescu because fucking aspie autistic idiot kids + total incompetent "women in journalism" ask dronign, meaningless questions [13:57]
decimation note that there are people who could ask such questions [13:58]
PeterL [13:58]
assbot Women's College Cancels 'Vagina Monologues' Because It Excludes Women Without Vaginas - Hit & Run : ... ( ) [13:58]
decimation but the press corps is carefully selected to exclude them [13:58]
mircea_popescu camweon's a total heel. i have nfi whatabout england produces such contemptible sacks of shit. i thought blair was an exception, but apparently he was just a harbringer. [13:58]
mircea_popescu decimation so noted. why don't they ? [13:58]
mircea_popescu PeterL obviously, the idiocy's own internal logic is its downfall. kinda the problem with all insanity. [13:59]
decimation because the civil service would exclude access to that journalist's organization [13:59]
PeterL right, lol [13:59]
mircea_popescu decimation i propose excluding that entire thing. [14:00]
mircea_popescu !up chetty [14:00]
* assbot gives voice to chetty [14:00]
mircea_popescu chetty try it in here so we see ? [14:01]
chetty !v assbot:chetty.up:ef543cc75b665e6c256ba24daf682446e46a10a97d497ef0f6258a61671a362 [14:01]
assbot Invalid verfication string. [14:01]
PeterL somebody is trying to hack into chetty's account? [14:01]
chetty it doesnt like me [14:01]
mircea_popescu that string's too short. [14:01]
mircea_popescu missing 9 chars. [14:02]
chetty what my key has been hax [14:02]
mircea_popescu nah. [14:02]
kakobrekla hm [14:03]
kakobrekla try that in private ? [14:03]
mircea_popescu it's the missing /n at en of otp giving all sorts of people hell [14:03]
mircea_popescu because gotta recover the end of the key from their bash string [14:03]
decimation cameron said "as technology develops, as the world moves on, we should try to avoid safehavens that can otherwise be created for terrorists to talk to each other" [14:03]
kakobrekla otp !up should work only on private [14:03]
kakobrekla chan !up is for non otp use [14:03]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla im pretty sure i v'd here. [14:03]
kakobrekla !up Anduck [14:04]
* assbot gives voice to Anduck [14:04]
kakobrekla !down Anduck [14:04]
* assbot removes voice from Anduck [14:04]
kakobrekla !u [14:04]
kakobrekla !up [14:04]
mircea_popescu !v dude. !v. [14:04]
assbot Invalid verfication string. [14:04]
kakobrekla a yes, v you can you anywhere [14:04]
decimation perhaps that quote should be gossipd's motto [14:04]
mircea_popescu decimation could well be lol. [14:04]
mircea_popescu decimation: there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve << well, usg entities that deal in bitcoin do have such reprieve currently ? [14:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55000 @ 0.00047492 = 26.1206 BTC [-] {2} [14:05]
decimation some elements of usg would claim otherwise [14:05]
mircea_popescu heck, the us scammer office (previously marshall's office) doesn't have to answer foia if it doesn't feel like it, and can even lie in public statements. [14:06]
mircea_popescu come to think about it, so can the da. [14:06]
mircea_popescu seems to me like pretty complete legal immunity. [14:06]
decimation in theory, usg has no legal immunity (from criminal courts), but in practice it clearly does [14:06]
mircea_popescu for as long as that lasts lol. [14:07]
decimation in civil court usg has explicit immunity [14:08]
assbot Sovereign immunity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [14:08]
mircea_popescu this is universal. [14:08]
mircea_popescu bitbet has it as well. so does every other country. [14:08]
kakobrekla mircea_popescu [14:09]
assbot ... ( ) [14:09]
mircea_popescu sweet. [14:09]
kakobrekla actually [14:09]
assbot ... ( ) [14:09]
kakobrekla and [14:09]
assbot ... ( ) [14:09]
mircea_popescu this doesn't look like it should be legal., [14:10]
mircea_popescu it's too complicated. [14:10]
kakobrekla yeah ill prolly end up in jail [14:10]
mircea_popescu move to hungary. i hear they're going all fascist. [14:11]
PeterL there was talk earlier about newspapers. I find good local reporting at and my sister-in-law writes for [14:11]
assbot Michigan Local News, Breaking News, Sports & Weather - ... ( ) [14:11]
assbot Tooele Transcript Bulletin – News in Tooele, Utah ... ( ) [14:11]
mircea_popescu lol i read that as "toe online" was o.O [14:11]
PeterL lol [14:12]
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PeterL was originally tuellja (iirc), but the anglos mangled the spelling [14:12]
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kakobrekla mircea_popescu check new line if fixed? [14:13]
mircea_popescu !rate kakobrekla 17 hurr [14:13]
assbot Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. [14:13]
mircea_popescu !rate kakobrekla 1.7 hurr [14:13]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [14:13]
kakobrekla lol. [14:13]
mircea_popescu lmao fractions rly ? [14:13]
kakobrekla try it [14:13]
kakobrekla see what happens [14:13]
decimation !rate decimation 0.1 marginal [14:14]
assbot You can not rate yourself. [14:14]
mircea_popescu fixed tyvm [14:14]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.kakobrekla.1.7:b40b7beddd0f6b2f45874cb24cdb3dcd9c051c5c9727a4b306b1f115729982a0 [14:14]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 5 to 1.7 with note: hurr [14:14]
mircea_popescu lmao wut [14:14]
kakobrekla lol! [14:14]
kakobrekla nfi [14:14]
PeterL !rate decimation 0.1 marginal [14:14]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [14:14]
mircea_popescu this is not a bug. [14:14]
mircea_popescu it's a future. [14:14]
decimation lol [14:14]
decimation me thinks there might be some bugs [14:14]
PeterL !v assbot:PeterL.rate.decimation.0.1:17d02404cae9e530dcd5e82a06dad23963c9560e9b0530d785bd01da78a11710 [14:15]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 0.1 for decimation with note: marginal [14:15]
mircea_popescu nah srsly. kakobrekla dun bother fixing [14:15]
decimation lol [14:15]
PeterL so, if somebody has < 1 L2 rating, they don't get voice? or it just has to be > 0? [14:15]
mircea_popescu > 0 i hope. [14:15]
kakobrekla !gettrust kakobrekla [14:15]
assbot Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user kakobrekla: ∞ | [14:15]
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kakobrekla hmm [14:16]
mircea_popescu !gettrust kakobrekla [14:16]
assbot Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user kakobrekla: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 54 via 32 connections. | | [14:16]
kakobrekla i think it didnt work [14:16]
mircea_popescu o look it rounds ? [14:16]
PeterL !gettrust decimation [14:16]
assbot Trust relationship from user PeterL to user decimation: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | | [14:16]
PeterL rounds down? [14:16]
kakobrekla no, it did not work, comment is unchanged [14:17]
mircea_popescu !rate kakobrekla 5 too much stuff to list. inquire within.. [14:17]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [14:17]
PeterL !rated decimation [14:17]
assbot You rated user decimation on 17-Jan-2015, with a rating of 0, and supplied these additional notes: marginal. [14:17]
PeterL see, rounded down [14:17]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.kakobrekla.5:4854d908f615d0a4735169e307d17352740d17b15f4608f0200d018f6683baad [14:17]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 5 with note: too much stuff to list. inquire within.. [14:17]
mircea_popescu baad eh ? [14:17]
mircea_popescu PeterL i guess 1.7 -> 2 0.1 -> 0 [14:17]
PeterL so it lets you input a fraction, but converts to int? [14:18]
kakobrekla why are you asking me, do you think i know ? [14:18]
* kakobrekla goes to look the code [14:19]
davout b-a is so mean, kakobrekla makes something nice, everyone tries to break it [14:19]
PeterL you made it? [14:19]
mircea_popescu it was his twin brother. [14:19]
PeterL the more we disclose now leaves less suprises later [14:19]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 144 @ 0.00734105 = 1.0571 BTC [-] [14:19]
mircea_popescu he's just jealous we care. [14:20]
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kakobrekla !rate assbot -1.1 [14:24]
assbot Rating should be any non zero value between 10 and -10. [14:24]
mircea_popescu nonzero integer [14:24]
kakobrekla should say int but whatever. [14:24]
kakobrekla heh [14:24]
mircea_popescu yeah no big deal [14:24]
PeterL so no more decimals? [14:24]
kakobrekla NO [14:24]
kakobrekla NO DECIMALS FOR YOU [14:24]
kakobrekla COME BACK NEXT YEAR [14:24]
* PeterL hangs head in shame [14:25]
fluffypony [14:25]
assbot Decentralising mining: Making P2Pool more lucrative by coinbaseless fees? : Bitcoin ... ( ) [14:25]
fluffypony "The alert key will be raised by Gavin" [14:25]
fluffypony don't worry guize, Gavin will save err'one [14:25]
mircea_popescu lol [14:26]
mircea_popescu << post gavin salvation. [14:28]
assbot ... ( ) [14:28]
* assbot removes voice from chetty [14:30]
PeterL !up chetty [14:31]
* assbot gives voice to chetty [14:31]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2000 @ 0.00069999 = 1.4 BTC [-] [14:32]
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PeterL !up Panadol______ [14:38]
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PeterL hi Panadol______ , what brings you here today? [14:38]
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mircea_popescu !up bitspill [15:22]
-assbot- You voiced bitspill for 30 minutes. [15:22]
* assbot gives voice to bitspill [15:22]
mircea_popescu !up McNumpty [15:22]
-assbot- You voiced McNumpty for 30 minutes. [15:22]
* assbot gives voice to McNumpty [15:22]
mircea_popescu !up mats [15:22]
-assbot- You voiced mats for 30 minutes. [15:22]
* assbot gives voice to mats [15:22]
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mats a hello [15:23]
mircea_popescu hai, [15:23]
mats !s dnssec [15:23]
assbot 15 results for 'dnssec' : [15:23]
mircea_popescu << if anyone in london wants to host a retiring escort... [15:25]
assbot Dear All, [15:25]
mats [15:25]
assbot Against DNSSEC — Quarrelsome ... ( ) [15:25]
mircea_popescu seems you can't be black tho. [15:25]
mircea_popescu mats all good points. [15:26]
mircea_popescu we stand against dns and against govt-sponsored pki schemes. their combination is not likely to resolve that. [15:26]
mircea_popescu (well minus the "modern crypto uses ecdsa") [15:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00048985 = 10.2869 BTC [+] [15:28]
ben_vulpes good morning terrorists [15:37]
ben_vulpes << lovely, kakobrekla thanks a mil [15:37]
assbot ... ( ) [15:37]
mircea_popescu hi terror brother ben [15:37]
ben_vulpes buenos dias [15:38]
ben_vulpes the apartment complex drain backed up [15:38]
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ben_vulpes i awoke to sewage leaking around the bathtub plug actuator [15:39]
mircea_popescu this somehow brings to mind iron maiden [15:39]
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ben_vulpes it's a Good Morning in America™ [15:39]
mircea_popescu [15:39]
assbot Iron Maiden - Holy Smoke - YouTube ... ( ) [15:39]
mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel [15:40]
-assbot- You voiced gabriel_laddel for 30 minutes. [15:40]
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mircea_popescu you know you can assbot selfvoice ? [15:40]
gabriel_laddel yeah [15:40]
mircea_popescu "I've lived in filth, I've lived in sin, but I still smell cleaner than the shit you're in" [15:40]
gabriel_laddel Any #-assets members who will admit to being a fan of supreme commander or total annihilation? [15:42]
mircea_popescu total commander ? [15:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.00049959 = 12.8395 BTC [+] {2} [15:43]
ben_vulpes supreme annihilation's a pretty fun game [15:43]
ben_vulpes need the right partners tho [15:43]
* ben_vulpes eyes p. bahaha [15:43]
ben_vulpes << wish i had time for this one [15:43]
mircea_popescu actually the supreme commander thing looks pretty slick. [15:43]
assbot [OPEN] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [15:43]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: [15:43]
assbot Total Annihilation Intro (brighter) - YouTube ... ( ) [15:44]
mircea_popescu somehow i've never played either. [15:44]
* Tyklol is now known as Tykling [15:46]
gabriel_laddel they're in the same vein of games such as diablo I&II, baulders gate, path of exile etc. Not in terms of gameplay, but overall attention to detail and cohesive structure. [15:47]
mircea_popescu !up Tykling [15:48]
-assbot- You voiced Tykling for 30 minutes. [15:48]
* assbot gives voice to Tykling [15:48]
mircea_popescu they look more like tower defense / dune2 sort of thing to me / [15:49]
mircea_popescu baldur's gate btw! [15:49]
gabriel_laddel oh ty. [15:51]
undata ben_vulpes: we have a buddy with an extensible IRC bot; how's that raw tx backport coming? [15:52]
undata er archaeology and re-implementation [15:52]
undata actually, it appears it would only have to be aware that a tx has occurred, not send any [15:52]
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ben_vulpes undata: if you're interested in implementing, talk to MP for the spec [15:55]
ben_vulpes i don't really know how the transmission of btc is supposed to work for the thing [15:55]
undata it'd be neat if the thing paid its own bills out of its fees on some btc vps [15:55]
ben_vulpes probably want to decouple bot from funding actions [15:55]
ben_vulpes anyways [15:55]
ben_vulpes tx backport archaeology's an interesting thing [15:55]
ben_vulpes i'm starting to see some of the rationale behind the wallet paradigm - creating transactions for signing requires being able to retrieve arbitrary transactions from the blockchain [15:56]
danielpbarron i'd say TA is more like starcraft [15:56]
ben_vulpes far easier for the people working on it at the time to make some silly assumptions about what txns a user would want to sign, and then keep those txns on hand [15:57]
ben_vulpes creating a raw transaction requires having the previous transaction in hand in full at runtime, so as to extract the pubkey from the previous transaction [15:57]
ben_vulpes while this isn't *strictly* necessary, it's how things work now. [15:57]
ben_vulpes i don't know that a bitcoind would be able to verify a transaction without access to the full inputs [15:58]
danielpbarron i thought all you need to know is the tx id of the outputs you want to use, the private keys of the coresponding addresses, a destination, and an amount [15:59]
ben_vulpes to use the modern txn api, yeah [15:59]
ben_vulpes but! [16:00]
ben_vulpes to verify that you've created a valid transaction, you have to have the entirety of the previous output on hand to examine the public key [16:00]
ben_vulpes otherwise you just sign hash of txn, index in txn, and have no way to double check that you produced a valid signature corresponding to the pubkey to which those funds were transmitted originally. [16:01]
ben_vulpes danielpbarron: make sense? [16:01]
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ben_vulpes (one can sign anything at any time - that's not the problem. the problems crop up in a) knowing the sigs are valid and b) the multi-input, multi-privkey transaction generation use-case: how am i to know which privkeys are to be used to sign which inputs, and furthermore [and somewhat recursively] how do i know those signatures to be valid?) [16:02]
danielpbarron what are you signing it with? [16:02]
ben_vulpes a user-supplied privkey. [16:02]
danielpbarron the one that goes with the pubkey of the output right/ [16:03]
ben_vulpes sure [16:03]
ben_vulpes how do i get the pubkey for a given output? [16:03]
ben_vulpes say i have the transaction hash (aka txid) and output index - how do i get the pubkey those coins were sent to? [16:04]
danielpbarron this is for deedbot right? don't you already know what the last pubkey was? [16:04]
ben_vulpes no no no [16:04]
ben_vulpes raw transactions [16:04]
ben_vulpes *entirely* different project [16:04]
danielpbarron oh well yeah you need to know the whole blockchain to verify a tx in that case [16:05]
danielpbarron i tried to make a raw tx once, got rejected by my own node for having too small a fee [16:06]
asciilifeform sorta the point of having blockchain, no ? [16:06]
ben_vulpes "whole blockchain" << and more specifically, a trivial lookup of txids [16:06]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: iirc, i did mention 'can pull up arbitrary tx' as part of what a 'whole bitcoin node' has to do [16:07]
asciilifeform perhaps i should have given more proof [16:08]
* asciilifeform lazy [16:08]
* ben_vulpes pissing on fences [16:08]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes not dead, therefore grew stronger [16:09]
ben_vulpes learned some [16:09]
ben_vulpes brain now contains c++, not sure if improvement [16:09]
asciilifeform at any rate, there is really no way to understand the thing other than - reading it [16:09]
asciilifeform however unpleasant [16:09]
ben_vulpes i tried to make a raw tx once, got rejected by my own node for having too small a fee << heinous [16:10]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52300 @ 0.00050221 = 26.2656 BTC [+] {3} [16:23]
davout danielpbarron: iirc with the raw tx thing you can send zero fees without problem, there's however a safeguard against sending a massive fee [16:25]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.125 = 1.125 BTC [-] [16:40]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes> danielpbarron: make sense? << yes, that's what that is. [16:50]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [20:56]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [20:56]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [20:56]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [20:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65131 @ 0.00048038 = 31.2876 BTC [-] {2} [21:01]
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mircea_popescu lllllllava lamp [21:10]
assbot ... ( ) [21:10]
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mircea_popescu davout everyone can now be a "developer". even idiots. [21:12]
PeterL even me :) [21:13]
davout mircea_popescu: o hey, what are you referring to? [21:13]
mircea_popescu the "o look mom, i made a github commit. it changes the spelling of comments" thing [21:13]
mircea_popescu PeterL there's a difference between the innocent and the stupid. [21:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22950 @ 0.00050894 = 11.6802 BTC [+] {2} [21:14]
PeterL wait, which am I? [21:14]
davout ah, yea lol, i had a look to see if this chick had any other commits on the project, seems like it's her sole 'contribution' to the whole thing [21:14]
mircea_popescu davout no matter, "core contributor" nao. [21:14]
mircea_popescu whole slew of these, the cleaning lady wants to be "part of the team" nao. [21:15]
davout by this account i'm a core contributor to bitcoin too, i reset testnet once, fuck it [21:15]
mircea_popescu PeterL weren't you a biochemist by trade dabbling into code as a hobby recently ? [21:15]
asciilifeform not cleaning lady. demented bomzh who breaks into the office and takes a shit in the coffee pot. [21:15]
PeterL chemist, yes [21:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is what us cleaning lady does. [21:15]
mircea_popescu PeterL so you'd be the innocent. [21:15]
mircea_popescu at least until proof to the contrary. [21:15]
PeterL ok, I'll take that [21:16]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform they don't have cleaning ladies in the classic sense, which is why conde nast is writing memos to the "journos" about keeping the place clean. [21:16]
mircea_popescu apparently nobody heard of a "" [21:16]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what is this. every office park where i live has cleaners. [21:17]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 100% 'spanish' [21:17]
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mircea_popescu same here, but who the fuck knows what they do in the soviet republic of san francisco. [21:17]
mircea_popescu yoga class, probably. [21:17]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: keyids are evil << yeh davout. stop thinking about short keyids bs. [21:18]
davout well, i was just reading about them in the deedbot spec [21:19]
davout i'll let you read the convo [21:19]
mircea_popescu i just have. [21:20]
mircea_popescu what do you mean gpg doesn't return them ?! [21:20]
davout it does, it doesn't however return fingerprints [21:20]
mircea_popescu ok but then gpg --fingerprint | grep "keid" ? [21:22]
davout that implies you have the key in your keyring [21:22]
mircea_popescu one more reason gpg has to be rewritten i guess. [21:22]
mircea_popescu who the fuck did this i have nfi. [21:22]
asciilifeform everybody here understands difference between how key id and fp are calculated ? [21:22]
asciilifeform and yes, it's retarded [21:23]
mircea_popescu ah it's there. [21:23]
mircea_popescu nah nah. [21:23]
mircea_popescu davout [21:23]
assbot $ gpg -v -v --with-fingerprint gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BE - ... ( ) [21:23]
davout asciilifeform: well, keyid is a part of the fpr afaik [21:24]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform keyid is the last 16 chars of the 40 char fignerprint. and then there's an 8 char shit too. neither of these last two are any good, but hey, "usability". crap. [21:25]
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mircea_popescu for the innocents reading logs. [21:26]
assbot Evil 32: Check Your GPG Fingerprints ... ( ) [21:26]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: the point is MAPPING is bad << he understands. [21:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8350 @ 0.0005114 = 4.2702 BTC [+] {2} [21:27]
davout mircea_popescu: try with this guy -> [21:28]
assbot ... ( ) [21:28]
Apocalyptic mircea, what is your pastebin supposed to show ? [21:28]
davout if you don't have the key in your ring it won't know the fpr [21:28]
mircea_popescu Apocalyptic the fingerprint, penultimate line. [21:28]
undata davout is right [21:28]
Apocalyptic it does show "Primary key fingerprint: 6160 E1CA C8A3 C529 66FD 7699 8A73 6F0E 2FB7 B452" because you have you own key in your keyring obviously [21:28]
Apocalyptic go try it on a system you have no [21:28]
Apocalyptic *not [21:29]
mircea_popescu davout if you don';t have the key you can't verify signatures, dork! [21:29]
davout lol, deedbot isn't supposed to verify sigs amirite [21:29]
Apocalyptic well this was the whole point of the discussion [21:29]
Apocalyptic and according to davout it's not supposed ot verify [21:29]
undata ^ this enraged me [21:29]
* undata is open to correction [21:29]
davout i could tell [21:29]
mircea_popescu well apparently it just became required to verify cause otherwise it can't talk to assbot. [21:30]
mircea_popescu accidental spec! [21:30]
davout mircea_popescu: with the fingerprint for a key it could simply do what you said wrt requesting trust data as a json blob from the thing [21:30]
davout s/for a key/for a sig/ [21:31]
mircea_popescu davout but assbot won't respond unless he queries by fingerprints. [21:31]
davout yea that's the whole problem [21:31]
mircea_popescu IF gpg doesn't put out full fingerprints for verified keys, then gpg is broken [21:31]
mircea_popescu gpg: Signature made Sat 21 Aug 1999 07:04:31 PM ART using DSA key ID 8ACE3E79 [21:31]
mircea_popescu gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found [21:31]
mircea_popescu myeah. [21:31]
davout the crux is 'verified keys', if deedbot doesn't maintain a full keyring at all times it can't pull fingerprints [21:32]
davout this sounds a bit overkill to me [21:32]
mircea_popescu defo the gpg signature model is bad. [21:32]
mircea_popescu feel free to fork and fix the gpg key verification process so it reports fingerpritns properly not wtf it's doing now. [21:32]
davout gpg can't know the fpr for a key it doesn't have, the information isn't part of the signature packet [21:33]
Apocalyptic mircea, note that neither the "-v" nor the "--with-fingerprint" flags are required to get the fingerprint line displayed [21:33]
mircea_popescu who the fuck did thius. [21:33]
Apocalyptic ^ I asked myself the same [21:33]
davout see [21:34]
assbot Logged on 17-01-2015 22:34:54; davout: asciilifeform: yeah, that's what i was reading, it mentions user ids in the subpackets spec, but i'm unsure whether that includes an actual key fingerprint, i tend to understand that it doesn't [21:34]
* mircea_popescu rages [21:34]
mircea_popescu dude rms, you saved 24 bytes aren't you a smart fucking cookie. [21:34]
mircea_popescu davout only possible workaround seems keeping the lordship keys. [21:35]
PeterL would it be hard to maintain a keyring with all us in it? [21:35]
undata no [21:35]
Apocalyptic that's what punkman's bot did afaik [21:35]
mircea_popescu which i guess is not that bad, seeing how it also solves the problem of the untrustworthy pgp-sks etc [21:35]
davout anyway, my point wrt to deedbot is that it's supposed to be used by ppl with L1/L2 trust, it doesn't need to check gpg signatures, so let anyone with +v in -assets use it, do away with the requirement that a keyid belonging to someone in assbot's wot be presented or maliciously hammered into the message [21:35]
mircea_popescu so i guess ima have to modify the spec instead of finishing my "on terrorism' article. [21:36]
mircea_popescu davout how do you propose to query assbot for l1/l2 inclusion ? [21:36]
davout whoever has voice in -assets shall be deemed worthy to notarize [21:36]
mircea_popescu derp. [21:37]
mircea_popescu no, it's not ok to overload voice like that. [21:37]
undata this was my entire rant [21:37]
davout greatly simplifies the problem, don't see too much downside to it, and we're eventually moving to gossipd anyway [21:37]
mircea_popescu i give voice to all the whores, not to mention all sorts of known usg agents [21:37]
PeterL but you would still need keys to verify deed signatures? [21:37]
undata why should gpg exist; irc is apparently all we ever needed [21:37]
mircea_popescu PeterL original spec didn't call for that. [21:37]
davout and notary would be connected through asswot's gossipd's node anyway [21:37]
PeterL oh, do deeds even need to be gpg signed? [21:38]
mircea_popescu davout undata gossipd can well be a year or two away. [21:38]
mircea_popescu PeterL yes. [21:38]
undata mircea_popescu: I am being facetious, and argued earlier for sig verification [21:38]
davout let whores timestamp some blobs now and then i say [21:38]
undata I'm hacking on something now, but will wait for an updated spec [21:38]
PeterL why sign if you are not verifying? [21:38]
mircea_popescu incoming. [21:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00050843 = 5.5419 BTC [-] [21:38]
davout undata: you fail to comprehend that it's not deedbot's job to certify to a third party that the contract is signed by an identified party, gpg already does that [21:39]
davout wrt to your earlier example of me scamming you, anybody can verify i signed the contract by using gpg itself [21:39]
undata davout: its output should be the history of valid deeds, not "that which a rubber stamp has touched" [21:39]
davout why the hell would it need deedbot to testify to that too ? [21:40]
undata god... do the proceedings of court note that a pidgeon shat on the window? [21:40]
davout that didn't parse [21:40]
davout it did derp [21:40]
undata have you ever been to a notary? [21:40]
davout why do you absolutely want to shoehorn your conception of a notary into deedbot? [21:41]
undata do you know what a deed is? [21:41]
undata or why one has it observed by a 3rd party? [21:41]
undata and signed as such [21:41]
davout we don't need Z to witness that X and Y signed a contract together, because any party can and will use GPG [21:42]
davout and properly verify that fact [21:42]
davout why would Z's word add any value to the information GPG outputs? [21:42]
punkman it doesn't really, but it's useful nonetheless [21:43]
undata keeps the published bundles down to a size that is manageable [21:43]
undata keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs [21:44]
davout wtf is this size bzns? [21:44]
undata size for hands and eyeballs to verify [21:44]
Apocalyptic keeps it from being filled with useless crud with invalid sigs << this sounds pretty reasonable [21:44]
undata not disk space [21:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00050726 = 7.6596 BTC [-] [21:45]
punkman davout, I'll just say that there were many cases with invalid signatures posted as deeds [21:45]
mircea_popescu [21:45]
assbot [OPEN] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets, updated. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [21:45]
davout the whole point here is to let ppl with L2/L1 trust timestamp stuff [21:46]
davout and only them [21:47]
mircea_popescu not and only them. [21:47]
mircea_popescu the point is to let them create and let the whole world trust and be able to verify. [21:47]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [21:48]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [21:48]
mircea_popescu its point is enacting privilege, not segregation. [21:48]
davout what is privilege if not the differentiation from the un-privileged? [21:49]
* bigtip_ is now known as bigtip [21:49]
undata mircea_popescu: I read the payment as coming from the party wanting a signature, not the bot? [21:49]
undata or no [21:50]
undata seems fair to me; pay per use [21:50]
mircea_popescu undata no, payment comes from teh boty. [21:50]
undata whyssat? [21:50]
mircea_popescu but dun worry about it, i seeded the prev one an' ill seed this one too. [21:50]
undata k [21:51]
mircea_popescu davout it gotta be one way. if there's four people and they fuck in two subsets of twos, that's segregation. if there's one that fucks all other three but the rest only jack off, that's privilege. [21:52]
davout i see [21:53]
mircea_popescu is "and pushes it to public repositories" a point of contention ? [21:54]
PeterL wouldn't keys already be public when registering with assbot? [21:54]
davout mircea_popescu: well, now the bot needs a key too :-) [21:55]
mircea_popescu PeterL idea kinda is to make a further record of people's sigs, help guard them against mitm and other nefariousness. but as davout points out, now the bot needs a key. [21:55]
PeterL did it not have a key before? [21:55]
mircea_popescu which makes shit more complicated. however, it also makes shit perhaps better defensible ? i dunno. [21:55]
mircea_popescu nah. [21:55]
davout i don't really see a use for that [21:56]
davout and if the signature on the blob is required only for access control, maybe it's be better to leverage asswot's functionality directly [21:57]
mircea_popescu davout nah, it's required for inclusion in bthe actual deed. [21:57]
davout as in 'wanna timestamp some stuff? fine, verify with and otp" [21:57]
mircea_popescu for later ppl to be able to verify at home. [21:57]
davout say i want to timestamp a contract i made with someone also in the L2 group as nested clearsigns, i doesn't really matter which signature is checked by deedbot, right? [22:02]
davout nah, scratch that [22:02]
mircea_popescu it only checks outer. [22:03]
davout yeah well, i wanted to point out that it didn't really prevent anyone from checking the inner sig at home [22:03]
davout i just fail to see a good reason to make the signatures mandatory, outside of access control that is [22:04]
* NomosOne ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:04]
mircea_popescu so that someone in 3714, with nothing but an inscription of deedbot's deeds, can verify our contracts just as well as we can. [22:04]
mircea_popescu this is the point of notarization : making the acts of men equal to the acts of god. [22:05]
asciilifeform unless key factored <= 3714 [22:05]
asciilifeform not god quite yet. [22:06]
davout maybe we'll want to timestamp something else than contracts is what i'm thinking [22:06]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform factorization trivially defeated by better key putting it into record :( [22:06]
mircea_popescu :) i mean [22:06]
asciilifeform gotta be alive to upgrade keys [22:07]
asciilifeform ozymandias - won't. [22:07]
PeterL you can timestamp whatever you want, as long as gpg signed first [22:07]
davout that's how is spec'd yes :-) [22:08]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no but suppose your 4kb key is factorized. this matter is discovered by joe on june 19th, 3211. he signs, with his 64kb key, a note saying so. [22:09]
mircea_popescu now, come 3714, it will be clear that uses ulterior to 3211 are null. but it will also be clear that uses prior to say, 3200 will still hold [22:09]
mircea_popescu davout that's how it goes, why not. [22:10]
asciilifeform well yes, in that case joe is, so to speak, trimming the weeds on your monument. [22:10]
mircea_popescu yup [22:10]
davout asciilifeform: also if you see a message signed with your key, and timestamped 200 years after your first timestamped message you can reasonably assumed it's been broken [22:11]
asciilifeform davout: lol, but what kind of idiot would do that [22:12]
davout say i timestamp sth in 2014 [22:12]
davout any timestamping after 2114 is null and void, problem solves itself [22:13]
* NomosOne has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:14]
PeterL I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs? [22:14]
undata davout: this business of making assumptions is not how it's done... [22:14]
davout PeterL: well, sign something to this effect, otherwise timestamps are inherently suspicious, esp. if factorization is possible given state of current technology [22:16]
davout *further timestamps [22:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51000 @ 0.00050035 = 25.5179 BTC [-] {2} [22:16]
davout undata: which assumption are you referring to? [22:16]
kakobrekla you are suppose to assume that [22:19]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.125 = 1.375 BTC [-] [22:23]
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mircea_popescu I don't suppose people pass keys down to their heirs? << people well might. [22:33]
mircea_popescu what exactly is inheritance if not this, fundamentally, inheriting father's FIRM. ie, signature. [22:34]
asciilifeform nope. [22:36]
asciilifeform in the case of pgp key, it's rather like, in the worst case, time travel. [22:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00050949 = 8.8651 BTC [+] {3} [22:36]
asciilifeform dead pope's seal is broken for a reason. [22:37]
asciilifeform granted, not everyone is a pope. [22:37]
undata asciilifeform: still seems father would sign a public statement granting his possessions to a son [22:37]
mircea_popescu a complicated matter. [22:38]
asciilifeform sure. but he does not give him the ability to retroactively emulate him [22:38]
undata asciilifeform: I was agreeing :) [22:38]
asciilifeform father might want to bind the son into some sort of 'dead hand' arrangement [22:38]
mircea_popescu father generally does, for "son's own good". [22:38]
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asciilifeform if son inherits signature, he can possibly unbind himself. [22:45]
asciilifeform or worse [22:45]
asciilifeform (crap all over father's posthumous good name by forging past xxxxx) [22:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26898 @ 0.00049826 = 13.4022 BTC [-] [22:46]
mircea_popescu !up BayAreaCoins [22:46]
-assbot- You voiced BayAreaCoins for 30 minutes. [22:46]
* assbot gives voice to BayAreaCoins [22:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you can't forge past because you can' register old deeds. [22:46]
mircea_popescu and you can retire a key any time you feel like. [22:46]
asciilifeform this assumes a universally agreed upon timestamp mechanism, yes. [22:47]
asciilifeform if there isn't one - can forge. [22:47]
* BayAreaCoins has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [22:49]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, the notary blockchain stamping mechanism. [22:49]
mircea_popescu quite universal. [22:49]
kakobrekla !s dual ec drbg [22:52]
assbot 3 results for 'dual ec drbg' : [22:52]
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* assbot gives voice to PeterL [23:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6902 @ 0.00049826 = 3.439 BTC [-] [23:29]
undata mircea_popescu: I get "No data" from the link in your spec article, and when I substitute my key's fingerprint [23:39]
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scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [23:39]
mircea_popescu undata lessee [23:43]
mircea_popescu [23:44]
mircea_popescu [23:44]
assbot ... ( ) [23:44]
mircea_popescu i r see json. [23:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.0005047 = 31.0895 BTC [+] {3} [23:46]
undata mircea_popescu: ah right, two parameters makes sense; the article has one [23:47]
undata the spec intends assbots fingerprint is one param? [23:47]
mircea_popescu you're supposed to replace the other one with the key you're looking for [23:47]
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undata mircea_popescu: ty [23:48]
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* assbot gives voice to decimation [23:59]
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