Forum logs for 15 Mar 2013

Saturday, 23 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

Namworld	Oh, We don't have the infrastructure to handle any large DoS tho, we're relatively a very small host. Not the kind that was being conducted against MPEx. Not sure what you would ahve wanted us to do.	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/reuters-social-media-editor-indicted-for-allegedly-conspirin	[00:00]
mircea_popescu	vaguely related	[00:00]
Namworld	It's just not feasible for us to do so.	[00:00]
jurov	Namworld, i wanted you to consider the possibility beforehand. not being caught like a deer in the headlights	[00:01]
jurov	and even then, the ddos was raging for 6 hours till anyone started to do anything with it!!!!	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	if i may, everyone has a point here. in fairness we didnt really know how hot things will get early on. in retrospect it can be said that "well duh, obviously if it can take out mpex's main it will wipe a vps somewhere". but at the time i was busy and i guess nobody else realised it.	[00:01]
mircea_popescu	on the other hand there's never going to be an economical solution to offer vps servers and yet scale it up in case of a serious ddos	[00:02]
mircea_popescu	so practically a vps host can't do much more than "sorry, we can't host you, you're too big".	[00:03]
jurov	well, having an alert for such cases is well within their economical reach... instead of waiting 8 hours till whole dc is in ashes	[00:03]
dub	I think while there could have been a quicker response (and really the pain here is for any other customer of bitvps), a $20 vps is not expected to handle any kind of dos in a way that mitigates the attack for its target	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	yeah i guess communications didn't work.	[00:03]
mircea_popescu	actually,	[00:04]
Namworld	Till whole DC?	[00:04]
dub	thats just my experience with gettign dos'd on $20 vpsen :)	[00:04]
Namworld	We have 1 server in switzerland.	[00:04]
dub	and yes I took out linodes fremont facility once	[00:04]
dub	because someone wanted my nick on IRC	[00:05]
kakobrekla	lol	[00:05]
jurov	okay, it was the server then, not the dc. and yes, i shouldn't have expected any thing else	[00:06]
jurov	but having to wait 6 hours and then another 2 hours fo r the staff trying to figure out if it's really an attack	[00:07]
jurov	that would enrage everyone	[00:07]
mircea_popescu	in fact going through the logs,	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	Mar 07 03:46:04 Namworld if this causes to overstep my bitvps bandwidth, or causes bitvps to be included in ddos outright	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	Mar 07 03:48:14 i would be surprised, jurov	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	some warning was issued.	[00:08]
jurov	^exactly this i was speaking about	[00:08]
jurov	thx mircea	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	well... he promised to be surprised, he was surprised. no scam.	[00:09]
jurov	hehe	[00:09]
Namworld	... that's not really the point	[00:09]
Namworld	But apparently yes, words got out quickly and it was DDoS'ed too.	[00:09]
mircea_popescu	anyway. it doesn't look like there's much more anyone could have done practically.	[00:10]
Namworld	We only have a few nodes, we might be the most popular host in BTC zone but that's quite small a clientbase.	[00:10]
jurov	well, but if you don't want to host anything critical, where does this leave you?	[00:11]
jurov	irc knitting group with some hosting slapped on?	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	jurov listen, pretty much nobody offers off the shelf ddos proof hosting	[00:11]
mircea_popescu	it's just too expensive.	[00:11]
Namworld	It actually is very expensive. Pretty much any host will kick someone getting DDoSed outright. Not that it's something we'd wish to do, but it's not economically feasible at the cost VPSes/Shared hosting are billed.	[00:12]
Namworld	and we are pretty much salvaging RG's business which was barely breaken even. There's no money for 24/7 staff and we all have to work on it outside our day job/etc.	[00:13]
Namworld	We're already moving out of rented servers and have bought dedicated servers. We'll be upgrading and consolidating.	[00:13]
mircea_popescu	Namworld it's a best effort business, we get it. perhaps the only improvement is to have an internal messaging system somehow, so if you hear ddos early warning it can be used somehow	[00:14]
mircea_popescu	if that's even possible.	[00:14]
Namworld	But we're pretty much investing in a business that was in the red.	[00:14]
Namworld	Once we get our own servers instead of renting, we'll be in the green. For now we're focused on doing that and moving clients.	[00:14]
Namworld	Once that is done we can start improving services.	[00:14]
Namworld	But there's still a lot of work ahead.	[00:15]
jurov	to be honest, i was thinking about moving somewhere else back after december outage	[00:16]
jurov	but couldn't get any good advice except to pay heavy $$$	[00:16]
dub	I would only go with big name brand for a vps	[00:16]
Namworld	The switzerland node we have has been getting many issues at the DC level. We might drop it altogether and have to find another node to rent for Europe.	[00:17]
dub	there are so many 2 bit (!) shops out there	[00:17]
Namworld	For US we're consolidating clients in New York on owned servers.	[00:17]
dub	jurov: not to be rude, and this is why I still use linode, you can't expect any $20 vps to handle anything critical	[00:20]
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jurov	okay okay, i'm not complaining about that	[00:22]
jurov	i have just issue with communication and delays	[00:22]
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jurov	but prolly that's to be expected for $40 vps, too...	[00:24]
kakobrekla	Namworld hetzner	[00:25]
dub	jurov: yep	[00:25]
Namworld	kako: what?	[00:25]
Namworld	Well we hope to be able to be staffed 24/7 later on.	[00:25]
kakobrekla	>We might drop it altogether and have to find another node to rent for Europe.	[00:26]
kakobrekla	http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produktmatrix/rootserver-produktmatrix-ex	[00:26]
dub	good, cheap, fast, pick two	[00:26]
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parseval	Beyond mitigation steps with firewall software, you could architect the web app to easily scale to multiple servers, then toss in nodes from AWS on demand during an attack. A bit pricey, but if the question is whether you pay more or shut down...	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	sex.	[00:29]
mircea_popescu	parseval software firewalls weren't even being touched, routers got it.	[00:30]
parseval	Nice	[00:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 1 @ 0.08995 BTC [-]	[00:30]
smickles	;;bc,diff	[00:31]
gribble	4847647.1520656	[00:31]
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RandolphDuke	which broker is better coinbr or btc-tc ?	[00:36]
jurov	RandolphDuke btc-tc is exchange not broker	[00:36]
Namworld	Indeed	[00:37]
jurov	and you did not say your criteria	[00:37]
RandolphDuke	so how do they have mpex assets?	[00:37]
jurov	these are passthroughs backed by mpex assets	[00:37]
RandolphDuke	jurov: recieving dividends	[00:37]
RandolphDuke	from what i take it btc-tc takes 5% of the dividend ammount	[00:38]
RandolphDuke	and coinbr charges a monthly fee	[00:38]
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jurov	coinbr is not asking a fee for receiving dividends, but asks 0.09/month flat	[00:38]
RandolphDuke	what about reputation, is coinbr the same people as mpex?	[00:39]
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dub	coinbr is jurov	[00:39]
jurov	no, i'm coinbr owner, mircea_popescu is mpex owner	[00:39]
dub	;;getrating jurov	[00:39]
gribble	WARNING: Currently not authenticated. User jurov, rated since Fri Jan 20 15:16:32 2012. Cumulative rating 24, from 15 total ratings. Received ratings: 15 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 10 positive, 1 negative. Details: http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=jurov	[00:39]
dub	he has a good reputation	[00:39]
RandolphDuke	what about security of funds	[00:40]
jurov	it's discussed extensively on bitointalk, lemme dig it...	[00:41]
RandolphDuke	thnx	[00:41]
jurov	here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=118551.0	[00:41]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.BBET-PT] 10 @ 0.0018 = 0.018 BTC [-]	[00:44]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.53 = 2.12 BTC [-]	[00:48]
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RandolphDuke	havelock is another broker or exchange?	[01:08]
dub	exchange	[01:09]
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smickles	RandolphDuke: i believe that coinbr is the only mpex broker with a website	[01:13]
smickles	and, ugg, i just installed a proper ssl cert ... now apache wont start	[01:14]
smickles	and i can't find any useful error in the logs	[01:14]
smickles	:PP	[01:14]
kakobrekla	Inaba: My open offer for a bet: BFL will ship the promised products within a reasonable time frame (as determined by a reputable member of this community, I propose Casascius). I offer BTC from 100 BTC to 2000 BTC. I am also willing to accept the domain name joshzerlan.com in lieu of BTC on the part of Bryan Micon.	[01:17]
kakobrekla	how could i have missed that.	[01:17]
kakobrekla	gotta love the reasonable timeframe	[01:18]
mircea_popescu	lol	[01:21]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla : make an alias for josh-zerlan.com on bitbet's server	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	and redirect it to the march bfl bet.	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	gimme the ns.	[01:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.3449 BTC [+]	[01:24]
*	smickles melts in defeat	[01:25]
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smickles	how am i supposed to fix something when there are no errormessages or logs?	[01:25]
mircea_popescu	smickles join the club, my sysadmin ppls have been wrangling with something exactly liek that for 3 days now.	[01:25]
smickles	mircea_popescu: but this should be simple, and common. I'm sure many people install ssl certs	[01:27]
mircea_popescu	yah well...	[01:27]
Troic	selinux / strace are your friends and foe	[01:29]
thestringpuller	!ticker m S.MPOE	[01:29]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00072543 / 0.00072578 / 0.00072614 (22480 shares, 16.32 BTC), 7D: 0.00067334 / 0.00074098 / 0.00076718 (769435 shares, 570.14 BTC), 30D: 0.00061614 / 0.00069589 / 0.00078628 (43419967 shares, 30,215.69 BTC)	[01:29]
mircea_popescu	http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/	[01:30]
mircea_popescu	from my personal "must read collection	[01:30]
RandolphDuke	!ticker m S.DICE	[01:31]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00569985 / 0.00584763 / 0.00599987 (473 shares, 2.77 BTC), 7D: 0.00413 / 0.00575556 / 0.006 (50044 shares, 288.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00613776 / 0.0069 (2392891 shares, 14,687.00 BTC)	[01:31]
smickles	the internet is so useful: "Wow after hours of digging I finally found the solution thanks to a post by rajanichand Here what I did in httpd.conf I commented out the SSLCACertificateFile line and it worked."	[01:34]
mircea_popescu	haha cool	[01:35]
smickles	unfortunately, i don't think i have the right kind of mind for that solution	[01:35]
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smickles	and i've come across a handfull of "UPDATE: i fixed it after finding _this_line_ in som OTHER logs" But they never say what logs those were	[01:37]
mircea_popescu	you know...	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	those other logs	[01:40]
jurov	smickles, you don't have passphrase set on key?	[01:41]
jurov	so that apache is stopping somewhere and waiting for it	[01:41]
smickles	jurov: i believe i do have a passphrase set on the key	[01:42]
jurov	get rid of it.. you can add it later if desired	[01:42]
smickles	could it be stopping and waiting for me to type it in somehow?	[01:42]
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jurov	yes tat's exactly what it does	[01:43]
smickles	oh, howto get rid of it?	[01:43]
jurov	some openssl magic invocation	[01:43]
smickles	i will send you a tip if this works	[01:43]
smickles	hmm, i'm going to have to send a new csr to those guys now, arn't i	[01:44]
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jurov	http://www.mnxsolutions.com/apache/removing-a-passphrase-from-an-ssl-key.html << smickles	[01:45]
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smickles	jurov: give me an addy, it worked.	[01:50]
smickles	but now, the thing that prompted me to do this is giveing another error	[01:51]
smickles	D:	[01:51]
jurov	what thing?	[01:51]
smickles	blockchain.info's api making a callback to my server	[01:51]
smickles	their java install doesn't seem to think my cert is a good cert	[01:52]
jurov	nromal browser is not complaining?	[01:52]
smickles	yeah, works on chromium	[01:52]
jurov	does apache provide all certs in chain or only the your one and the CA?	[01:53]
jurov	i remember i had to add them all cause some browser was unhappy	[01:54]
smickles	SSLCertificateChainFile /etc/apache2/PositiveSSL.ca-bundle	[01:54]
smickles	is that what you're talking about?	[01:55]
jurov	yea that should work	[01:55]
smickles	yeah, it's in there, and has been in there	[01:55]
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jurov	i dunno. so 1DzxV3arKg22TfVYx4nw1rLFJmjLTnXHi7 then	[01:56]
jurov	maybe you'll have to import them into java then	[01:58]
smickles	lol, yeah, import my cert into their java. anyway, sent :)	[02:00]
mircea_popescu	what's the problem ?	[02:01]
mircea_popescu	java is like, secure and maff and stuff	[02:01]
smickles	mircea_popescu: when 'they' try to send a callback to my server, their software gives them "Error sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: PKIX path building failed: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target" and gives up	[02:03]
mircea_popescu	hm	[02:03]
jurov	https://forums.comodo.com/ssl_certificate/unable_to_find_valid_certification_path_to_requested_target-t17086.0.html;wap2=	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	you know they could just add your cert.	[02:04]
jurov	lol maybe their java is outdated	[02:04]
smickles	wtf, would they really be on 1.5?	[02:04]
smickles	damn early 1.5 at that	[02:04]
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Bowjob	yawn	[02:05]
Bowjob	my electrum wallet doesnt appear to work lol	[02:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.82 BTC [+]	[02:06]
mircea_popescu	“The welfare state reduces a citizen to a client, subordinates them to a bureaucrat, and subjects them to rules that are anti- work, anti-family, anti-opportunity and anti-property... Humans forced to suffer under such anti-human rules naturally develop pathologies. The evening news is the natural result of the welfare state.”	[02:07]
mircea_popescu	i'm like in love over here.	[02:07]
smickles	mircea_popescu: don't love AJ, it's a sin	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	aj ?	[02:08]
smickles	alexjones	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	that's not alex jones	[02:09]
smickles	silly joke	[02:09]
mircea_popescu	its some obscure jim beam dood	[02:09]
smickles	that's an ungoogleable name	[02:09]
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mircea_popescu	http://jim.com/liberquo.htm	[02:14]
mircea_popescu	jim.com, nicely enough	[02:14]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.1555 BTC [+]	[02:20]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.155 BTC [-]	[02:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.15199 BTC [-]	[02:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.15021 = 0.3004 BTC [-]	[02:23]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.15021 BTC [-]	[02:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 6 @ 0.1502 = 0.9012 BTC [-]	[02:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 20 @ 0.15 = 3 BTC [-]	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	ahh, got a nice one for midnightmagic :	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	“Altruism does not mean mere kindness or generosity, but the sacrifice of the best among men to the worst, the sacrifice of virtues to flaws, of ability to incompetence, of progress to stagnation--and the subordinating of all life and of all values to the claims of anyone's suffering.”	[02:25]
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topace_	!ticker h sdice	[02:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.53000000 / 0.54966167 / 0.57000000 (60 shares, 32.97970000 BTC), 7D: 0.44000006 / 0.56318428 / 0.61999910 (735 shares, 413.94044920 BTC), 30D: 0.37000000 / 0.62515082 / 0.75900000 (5260 shares, 3288.29329337 BTC)	[02:29]
topace_	!ticker m s.dice	[02:29]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00569985 / 0.00570109 / 0.00599986 (241 shares, 1.37 BTC), 7D: 0.00413 / 0.00575556 / 0.006 (50044 shares, 288.03 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00613751 / 0.0069 (2388391 shares, 14,658.80 BTC)	[02:29]
smickles	jurov: phantomcircuit nailed the second issue, my server wasn't providing enough of the cert chain, browsers just dl the missing parts, java needs the whole thing spoon-fed to it	[02:44]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 20 @ 0.769994 = 15.3999 BTC [-]	[02:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.769995 BTC [+]	[02:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.769996 = 3.08 BTC [+]	[02:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00574 BTC [+]	[02:50]
kakobrekla	http://xkcd.com/1181/	[02:52]
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smickles	kakobrekla: not funny :P	[02:58]
kakobrekla	this one is http://xkcd.com/1169/	[02:58]
smickles	heh, actually i do think it's funny, but it sends a bad message	[02:59]
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mircea_popescu	in other news http://polimedia.us/dtng/c/src/136330962761.jpg	[03:07]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.345 BTC [+]	[03:08]
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dub	did you see my link before?	[03:14]
dub	be fun to set two points in london and try to navigate at full zoom	[03:15]
dub	http://btlondon2012.co.uk/pano.html	[03:15]
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mircea_popescu	fpr some values of fun	[03:18]
dub	tbh I spent ten minutes looking for porn and gave up	[03:18]
dub	probably need to refamiliarise myself with the best socioeconomic direction	[03:20]
dub	its been 30 odd years since I've been there	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	been where ?!	[03:27]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: Human progress exists because people cooperate together, and are nice to each other. The peoples whose nature is to prey on other humans, to cast them away, or to be mercenary, these are destructive elements. People who are destructive while pretending their acts select for greater fitness is a perversion of the nature of Darwinism which does not, in fact, match reality.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	you equivocate plenty in there. progress does not exist. humans do live comfortably because they cooperate, but this does have no relation to being nice.	[03:28]
mircea_popescu	gotta think cleanly if you aim to think at all.	[03:28]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: Nor is courtesy and kindness in the face of cruelty anything I would espouse.	[03:28]
midnightmagic	Progress does exist in the form of higher standards of living, freedom, and the advancement of human knowledge and science.	[03:29]
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mircea_popescu	standards of living have been collapsing ever since welfarism (which is a good example of the nice/cooperation confusion)	[03:29]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: If you would like to make a specific point about altruism rather than make quotation-like assertions, I would be happy to entertain it.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	the only way that collapse can be hidden is by avoiding reference to objective standard.	[03:30]
midnightmagic	That is actually completely false.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	so then we have a point.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	to disagree on :D	[03:30]
midnightmagic	And I would say that those who prey on other humans and run confidence games with them are more responsible for the destruction you think outweighs the progress humans have made in science and medicine.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	now let's take your progress apart. fewer people can read in the us today than did in 1913.	[03:30]
midnightmagic	Aumann's agreement theorem states one or both of us is, at that point, being irrational.	[03:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.54 = 1.08 BTC [+]	[03:31]
midnightmagic	Thus, I do not agree to disagree.	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	fewer people die today in good health than did in 1913	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	what esle was in there, o, right, freedom.	[03:31]
mircea_popescu	i'll rest on that one, seems too easy.	[03:31]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.53 = 7.95 BTC [-]	[03:32]
midnightmagic	That is a statement which is pointless: more people live longer, in better health than in 1913.	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	also, you perhaps hold aumann in too high a regard. he's a minor bayesian, which is another way to say nonsense.	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic only if you measure these like the us govt measures unemployment.	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	take something inconvenient, like people who died of cancer before age 18.	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	see how it went up by the 100's of %.	[03:33]
midnightmagic	I'm no sure you understand what Bayesian reasoning is at this point.	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	im pretty sure you lack the cognitive trappings that'd allow you to evaluate that meta-point, so let's allow it to go silent.	[03:33]
midnightmagic	You make a nonsense assertion about Bayesian reasoning being nonsense and then tell me I'm incapable of cognition for saying you're making ignorant comments?	[03:35]
midnightmagic	You know you could have just said, "no, u"	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	here's the thing : the theorem you cite refers to something very speciffic.	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	you are applying it with no consideration given to the conditions of validity it contains	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	this speaks of you.	[03:37]
midnightmagic	mircea_popescu: The population of the world also went up. Your statements of statistics are flawed, and either you're doing it on purpose and waiting for me to mock you, or you really do think these things, in which case I .. well I'm not sure where to go from there.	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	right, see ?	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	we have problems.	[03:37]
midnightmagic	Lemme give it a stab. Pirates and global warming?	[03:37]
mircea_popescu	what about these ?	[03:38]
midnightmagic	If population itself rises by x%, and you say number of cancer cases have increased by x%, you are actually saying cancer rates have remained static.	[03:38]
mircea_popescu	listen, the reason i phrased that way is not because of a misunderstanding of statistics, as you seem inclined to conveniently surmise.	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	it's because i presupposed in your usage of "progress" that you do not look at percents but absolutes.	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	you'd have to, in order to maintain coherence.	[03:39]
midnightmagic	I surmise but not conclude, as you'll note in my previous comment about the possibilities of why you're doing that.	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	"no kids left behind" and all that.	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	(yes, surmise but not conclude. which is specifically why i used that word and not the other. i'm trying to help you judge here.)	[03:40]
midnightmagic	You make it easy to be uncivil, mircea.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	you're welcome.	[03:40]
midnightmagic	I don't feel so.	[03:40]
mircea_popescu	well... not like you have to :p	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	but let us better understand this notion of progress you use, because after all it's so messed up by commoners chewing on it.	[03:43]
midnightmagic	Well, it does free me up to mock your "my success by my measure makes me right" bias.	[03:43]
midnightmagic	Very well.	[03:43]
mircea_popescu	so : if situation A is that 100 people die yearly in forest fires and situation B is that 3 people die yearly in forest fires but one person is kidnapped and tortured to death as a religious practice which causes the reduction in forest fires casualities, is a movement from A to B progress in your view ?	[03:44]
BitHub	:/	[03:45]
BitHub	morning	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	hi.	[03:45]
*	BitHub tips hat	[03:45]
BitHub	gday maaaaate, how the bloody hell are ya?	[03:45]
*	jborkl (~jborkl_@unaffiliated/jborkl) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[03:46]
midnightmagic	Human longevity has increased; human standards of living have increased; human freedom to pursue a healthy happy life is greater than it ever was; human knowledge is at its greatest peak in all of history; human treatment of disease is greater and more effective than it has ever been, ever in all history; human notions of morality and ethics (on the whole) are greater than they have ever been.	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	ah but why muddy things up, just answer the q.	[03:46]
midnightmagic	I literally don't have an answer for your contrived example.	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	perhaps human notions of morality and ethics aren't quite as developed as all that.	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	or perhaps you're not quite up to the reading, seeing how it's both ancient and banal an example.	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	but anyway. i'm satisfied myself, thanks.	[03:48]
midnightmagic	They are. We have natural rights now that humans have never had for basically all of recorded history.	[03:48]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.00999 BTC [+]	[03:49]
midnightmagic	It's a stupid philosophical example with no bearing on my assertion.	[03:49]
midnightmagic	+s	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	well, it's true it has no bearing on your assertions.	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	the reason would be that they're empty pr stuff.	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	where they mean anything they're false, where they're not false they're meaningless.	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	for that matter the raw raw raw we are the best the sun has ever seen is possibly the oldest rabble rousing talk ever. older than Athens for sure.	[03:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.52 = 5.2 BTC [-]	[03:52]
midnightmagic	So what? It's true now.	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	it always was "true now".	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	i guess for some views that constitutes proof of progress.	[03:52]
midnightmagic	So?	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	so nothing really, it's a little amusing, you'll grow out of it.	[03:53]
midnightmagic	lol	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	ikr?	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	people have never been this smart and yet men your age have never been this childish.	[03:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.345 BTC [+]	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	it's a paradox.	[03:53]
midnightmagic	So desperately certain; so patronizing. And you continue to rail against that which you have no control over; ineffective. Shouting into the wind.	[03:54]
midnightmagic	I'm fairly sure you have no idea how old I am.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	hm, if you won't think the question too much proof of my many and varied shortcomings,	[03:54]
midnightmagic	Pretend you are my better then. I'm confident you don't grow out of that no matter how true or untrue it may be.	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	why do you presume to guess my emotional state ? does it help something ?	[03:55]
midnightmagic	Dinner time. Have fun talking to your echo chamber.	[03:55]
mircea_popescu	laters.	[03:55]
jborkl	Emotions hinder rational thought	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	well that's true. but he already got slapped once with the entire statistics thing. you'd expect people a little quicker on their feet.	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	presume you don't understand what's being said because of the other person once, get shown better, stop making the assumption. at least for a wittle while.	[03:57]
jborkl	That seems reasonable to me	[03:57]
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RandolphDuke	midnightmagic: standards of living in developed countries have barely budged in 50 years outside of major improvements in communications	[04:05]
RandolphDuke	midnightmagic: with all the productivity gains the government has said weve made over 50 years, 8 hours of work per week should be enough to afford a 1950's standard of living, yet today 2 income earners are required just to make ends meet	[04:06]
midnightmagic	RandolphDuke: That's not true at all re: not budged in 50 years.	[04:10]
RandolphDuke	sure it is	[04:10]
mircea_popescu	midnightmagic 44, gemini.	[04:10]
mircea_popescu	o, there you are.	[04:11]
RandolphDuke	name an innovation in the last 30 years that has improved your life other then the internet	[04:11]
kakobrekla	mobile phone	[04:11]
kakobrekla	gps	[04:11]
kakobrekla	microwave	[04:11]
Troic	mri	[04:11]
RandolphDuke	phones existed in the 50's	[04:11]
kakobrekla	fine, GSM then	[04:11]
RandolphDuke	all of those are merely improvements of existing technology	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla seriously tho, people need about 3 average incomes now to maintain a 1950s lifestyle. in the 80s needed two.	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	soon will need four.	[04:12]
kakobrekla	yeah and?	[04:12]
RandolphDuke	some households already have their kids working part time	[04:12]
kakobrekla	thats why bitcoin is 50 now	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	right.	[04:12]
*	Populus (~Populus@81-233-170-133-no122.tbcn.telia.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:12]
RandolphDuke	the government has siphoned off the productivity gains through inflation/taxation and transfered them into none-return bearing investments	[04:12]
RandolphDuke	squandered	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	at least zee germans financed a united europe	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	so they'll have a disaster to account for it.	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	the us financed nothing in particular, a buncha lossy wars.	[04:13]
RandolphDuke	european union is just a secular version of the holy roman empire	[04:13]
RandolphDuke	its nothing new	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	i think that's what they hoped it to be, but it didn't work out.	[04:13]
kakobrekla	i still dont see what the problem is	[04:14]
RandolphDuke	infact its probably even worse now, since at least the emperors still feared divine punishment somewhat	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	hre was politically very weak.	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	look into it, it was an interesting time for freedom.	[04:14]
midnightmagic	1910 literacy rate: 7.7% = 92m * 1-0.077=84m, 2013 literacy rates for the US: 99% = 313m * 0.99 =309.9m 309.9m > 84m.	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	those numbers are lies.	[04:15]
midnightmagic	Oh, sure. Make up a definition that makes you right.	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	want me to pick up the reports that kids going to college today need to take basic literacy ?	[04:15]
midnightmagic	lol	[04:15]
RandolphDuke	what i find most amusing about the US, is if you actually research what the so called tyrants extracted from the population it was roughly 5-10% of annual income	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	have you spoken to one of these young hopefuls ?	[04:15]
RandolphDuke	compare that to close to 50% now lol	[04:15]
RandolphDuke	in a "free" country	[04:15]
midnightmagic	Considering 7.7% couldn't read AT ALL in 1910?	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	over 10% can't read at all today.	[04:16]
midnightmagic	Anecdote proves everything, I always say. Right mircea?	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	it's just they're carefully avoided when the statistics are made.	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	just like the uynemployed doesn't include the homeless	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	because they smell.	[04:16]
midnightmagic	And let's just make up some random numbers! 10%	[04:16]
RandolphDuke	midnightmagic: go pull up a newspaper from 100-200 years ago and compare it to one today, the level of language was far higher + the ammount of information per page was astonishing	[04:17]
midnightmagic	#statsfail	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	not how it works joe.	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	do you mind if i call you joe ?	[04:17]
midnightmagic	Only if you mind me calling you fluffy the unicorn.	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	you're already calling me mircea, so it's about fair.	[04:17]
RandolphDuke	midnightmagic: if people were so well educated the unemployment rate wouldnt be as high, they would be able to figure out how to be productive from all their knowledge	[04:18]
midnightmagic	Okay fluffy.	[04:18]
kakobrekla	omg kids.	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	o, a challenge ? mkay.	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	for that matter i know you live in de soto, wisconsin, and that you collect, and what, and when you dated, and a whole other pile of stuff.	[04:18]
midnightmagic	Well? Courtesy's out the window, why not?	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	i got it all because i asked, half hour ago or whatever.	[04:18]
midnightmagic	LOL	[04:18]
midnightmagic	Who, me?	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	let's call the person joe.	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	anyway.	[04:19]
midnightmagic	... Wisconsin..?	[04:19]
midnightmagic	I thought I told you I'm Canadian.	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	yeh	[04:19]
midnightmagic	Why would I be living in Wisconsin then?	[04:19]
mircea_popescu	...	[04:20]
midnightmagic	Is this another one of those things that isn't translating into English so well?	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	it's a bizzare question, what, they shoot canadians in wisconsin ? or how should i know anyway	[04:21]
midnightmagic	whargarble.	[04:22]
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midnightmagic	http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/Velvet42/motivational%20posters/whargarbl.jpg	[04:23]
*	smickles tests testy thesis	[04:34]
kakobrekla	its official, we have a 'chain block', dub. http://www.bloomberg.com/video/bob-s-daily-buzzword-bitcoin-EJ04CzJbQsKJ6CqAsDI_WA.html	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	in you chain blockin' yo forks	[04:38]
smickles	get that fact into wikipedia!	[04:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 150 @ 0.00599963 = 0.8999 BTC [-]	[04:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00072139 = 2.1642 BTC [-]	[04:49]
leotreasure	rofl chain block	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	like cockblock	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	but whit hain in it.	[04:52]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 5 @ 0.2 = 1 BTC [+]	[04:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 261 @ 0.005199 = 1.3569 BTC [+]	[04:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00072139 = 4.653 BTC [-]	[05:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00071103 = 0.711 BTC [-]	[05:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2100 @ 0.00071102 = 1.4931 BTC [-]	[05:01]
*	fishfish is now known as fishfish\|AFK	[05:04]
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MJR_	hi all	[05:08]
MJR_	;;ident	[05:08]
gribble	You are identified as user Josh_Rossi, with GPG key id C286BB96FE9B6CD3, key fingerprint 3812AFD43A6B8A057F37D858C286BB96FE9B6CD3, and bitcoin address 1LokQrHj14NU93tC6pZfTZyyRHhAVakQmX	[05:08]
smickles	;;tslb	[05:09]
smickles	howdy MJR_	[05:09]
gribble	Time since last block: 18 minutes and 5 seconds	[05:09]
MJR_	what's new :)	[05:09]
MJR_	;;ticker	[05:09]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 47.39999, Best ask: 47.40000, Bid-ask spread: 0.00001, Last trade: 47.39999, 24 hour volume: 31666.06954211, 24 hour low: 46.05000, 24 hour high: 47.99000, 24 hour vwap: 47.29517	[05:09]
MJR_	;;goxlag	[05:10]
*	savetheintermac (~sti@1.153.145.41) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:10]
gribble	0.250708 seconds	[05:10]
MJR_	;;buy 48	[05:10]
gribble	(buy [--long] [at\|@] []) -- Logs a buy order for units of , at a price of per unit, in units of . Use the optional field to put in any special notes. may include an arithmetical expression, and {mtgox(ask\|bid\|last)} to index price to mtgox ask, bid, or last price. May also include (1 more message)	[05:10]
MJR_	hmmm what's the command to see how many dollars to move to 48?	[05:11]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[07:05]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com/	[07:05]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 13 14:15:50 2013	[07:05]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 158 @ 0.1 = 15.8 BTC [+]	[07:11]
assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]	[07:12]
mircea_popescu	jurov http://live.coinbr.com/ doesn't show anything to me, is my browser borkt ?	[07:18]
Josh_Rossi	mircea_popescu: I don't see anything either	[07:21]
mircea_popescu	you know i can't see your name without thinking of portia de rossi	[07:22]
Josh_Rossi	lol	[07:22]
Josh_Rossi	not sure if that is good or bad	[07:22]
Josh_Rossi	but I like her...	[07:22]
mircea_popescu	well... this tall blonde gorgeous lesbian chick.	[07:22]
mircea_popescu	how bad can it be	[07:22]
*	Josh_Rossi is now known as mjr_	[07:23]
mjr_	hehehe	[07:23]
mjr_	yeah...just not sure if I want people to associate me with a hot blonde lesbian	[07:23]
mircea_popescu	and actually, talk about a trophy wife : she's maried to degeneres.	[07:24]
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mircea_popescu	http://cdn.evilbeetgossip.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ellen_portia_kiss.jpg	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	visual aid.	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-keiser/is-bitcoin-money_b_2849031.html	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	what does the libertard crowd wish to speak about ?	[07:26]
mircea_popescu	NOT the virtues of bitcoin. the fascinating fact that one of them got some.	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	navel grazing is becoming enshrined.	[07:27]
mjr_	lol	[07:27]
mjr_	max keiser is hilarious	[07:27]
mjr_	grazing or gazing?	[07:27]
mircea_popescu	yes	[07:31]
mjr_	so, I was thinking an assurance contract could be a good way to start a unified clearing process for exchanges	[07:39]
*	mjr_ combined with an m of n transaction system	[07:39]
mjr_	where m is 2/3 of n	[07:39]
mjr_	seems to me, that that is the only way you rival gox	[07:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 500 @ 0.00599963 = 2.9998 BTC [-]	[07:41]
grubles	any thoughts on ppcoin?	[07:44]
smickles	;;tslb	[07:58]
gribble	Time since last block: 2 minutes and 26 seconds	[07:58]
*	smickles is still testing his payment processing system	[08:06]
smickles	i would've used bitpay, but they still haven't responded to my application and the certainly didn't respond b/f i had 90% finished my own system	[08:07]
smickles	ya know, it really says something about their business if i can code a functional replacement for them before they even respond to me	[08:09]
smickles	they did ask about volume tho, maybe they just see me as too small of a fish	[08:10]
mjr_	smickles: lol	[08:11]
mjr_	the finance guys I work with are like send it to India	[08:12]
mjr_	im like you don't get it...this is the fun part	[08:12]
mjr_	interesting convo in OTC	[08:13]
smickles	heh, i had a lot of fun earlier getting and installing a 'proper' ssl cert	[08:13]
*	mjr_ led me to think of blockchain marriage certificates	[08:13]
mjr_	you had to pay?	[08:13]
smickles	mjr_: well, i didn't wan't to go with one of those 'free' providers, and my self-signed just wasn't cutting it anymore	[08:14]
mjr_	yeah	[08:14]
mjr_	what's the site, is it live?	[08:14]
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mjr_	how do you see the banner?	[08:17]
smickles	heh, the site is a wip	[08:21]
smickles	the banner?	[08:21]
mjr_	for a room	[08:21]
smickles	/topic you mean?	[08:22]
mjr_	ah thanks	[08:24]
mjr_	was looking for motd or something	[08:24]
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smickles	/motd is for the server	[08:28]
smickles	also, usually the topic has more in it than a url	[08:28]
mjr_	lol so much drama pretty much on every channel and forum	[08:31]
mjr_	I scurry back to bitcoin-assets	[08:32]
smickles	I've heard people say that it's not true that bitcoin isn't backed by anything; it's backed by drama.	[08:33]
mjr_	can't wait for a btc reality show	[08:34]
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mjr_	you could have an amazing drama on amc about bitcoins	[08:37]
mjr_	miners, exchanges, Silk Road retailers	[08:38]
mjr_	irc ops	[08:39]
mjr_	so many stories to tell	[08:39]
Ukto	anyone taken a loan on btcjam? i have some question on it	[08:46]
coingenuity	Ukto: from what i've seen btcjam is uh...dubious at best	[09:00]
coingenuity	mostly SR activity, not much else	[09:00]
coingenuity	once in a while something legit-seeming pops up, but given the rest of the loans on there...eh	[09:00]
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Bowjob	yawn	[09:08]
Bowjob	;;ticker	[09:08]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 46.60551, Best ask: 47.10799, Bid-ask spread: 0.50248, Last trade: 46.99588, 24 hour volume: 30482.99861105, 24 hour low: 46.05000, 24 hour high: 47.96000, 24 hour vwap: 47.17570	[09:08]
*	MJR_ (~mjr@cpe-68-174-114-54.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:16]
*	saulimus (~someone@a82-197-2-14.mpynet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[09:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.82 BTC [+]	[09:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.32001 BTC [-]	[09:39]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 1 @ 0.32 BTC [-]	[09:39]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ESECURITYSABTC] 5 @ 0.31 = 1.55 BTC [-]	[09:39]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.105 BTC [+]	[09:52]
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tiberiusiv	is jurov awake?	[10:02]
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smickles	alright, I think I'll be launching the MPEx GUI tomorrow (today after i sleep and such)	[10:12]
smickles	:D	[10:12]
Ukto	>,>	[10:21]
Ukto	is it differnt	[10:21]
Ukto	than a native passtru	[10:21]
Ukto	from coinbr ?	[10:21]
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Bowjob	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndshbH3qZ6Y	[11:13]
Bowjob	ahahah stupid americans	[11:13]
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jurov	tiberiusiv yes?	[11:16]
jurov	of course live.coinbr.com shows nothing	[11:18]
jurov	Unterminated comment starting line 6 in /home/polimedi/public_html/bitcoin/mpex-mktdepth-jsonp.php on line 6	[11:18]
jurov	mircea_popescu: check ur error logs	[11:18]
*	Olive6767 (~Olive@rob67-1-82-231-68-62.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[11:25]
Olive6767	Hi All :)	[11:26]
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tiberiusiv	jurov pm pls	[11:46]
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oizotov	is there a site from which i can download the whole blockchain ?	[12:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6546 @ 0.00071102 = 4.6543 BTC [-]	[12:19]
jurov	oizotov, there's a torrent	[12:21]
saulimus	oizotov, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=145386.0	[12:21]
oizotov	i dont need bootstrap.dat im using old client and i need blk000X.dat	[12:32]
jurov	oizotov http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/3551/how-can-one-download-the-initial-blockchain-data-files-securely	[12:35]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.344 BTC [-]	[12:41]
oizotov	i dont find any mirror that works i tried to download them with the client its running 4-5 days already and havent finished downloading it ...	[12:42]
kakobrekla	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152617.0	[12:44]
kakobrekla	O_o	[12:44]
kakobrekla	time to punch gox in the face	[12:44]
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jurov	oizotov, use 0.8 then	[12:46]
*	copumpkin (~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:46]
jurov	it's not broken, not even for mining, if blocksize limit stays unchanged	[12:46]
oizotov	my wallet doesnt load in 0.8 some version mismatch i guess	[12:47]
jurov	pls ask in #bitcoin-dev then...	[12:48]
oizotov	ok thanks	[12:48]
jurov	lol mpoe-pr immediately chimed in... she could have added "we dispensed of this problem completely, mpex withdrawals are deprecated."	[12:50]
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Anduck	lol i don't see ANY problem with that mtgox announcement	[12:59]
Anduck	btc price indeed has gone up	[12:59]
Anduck	like 3x from the long-lasting 10-4usd	[12:59]
Anduck	10-14 usd*	[12:59]
Anduck	so isn't it quite clear that they will fix the limits too?	[13:00]
kakobrekla	maybe you dont, others do.	[13:00]
Anduck	well, what is the problem, then? =I	[13:00]
Anduck	the real withdrawal limit value is still bigger than it was with the 200 btc border	[13:00]
kakobrekla	if you dont have one doesnt mean it isnt there.	[13:00]
Anduck	well i can't even think of a problem so yeah...	[13:00]
Anduck	that	[13:01]
Anduck	that's also true they should now fix their fee structure, too	[13:01]
Anduck	or maybe not, in fact	[13:01]
kakobrekla	O_o	[13:01]
Anduck	maybe they had to lower the withdrawal limit cuz of some aml things?	[13:02]
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*	Guest85658 is now known as scrybe	[13:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250 @ 0.00072397 = 0.181 BTC [+]	[13:03]
markedathome	if it is an aml thing then they should tie the withdrawal limits to 7 day vwap equivalent of USD limits.	[13:03]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.769999 BTC [+]	[13:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.5201 = 5.201 BTC [+]	[13:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2 @ 0.005199 = 0.0104 BTC [+]	[13:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.5200001 = 7.8 BTC [-]	[13:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.52 = 5.2 BTC [-]	[13:46]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.511 BTC [-]	[13:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.511 = 2.555 BTC [-]	[13:47]
assbot	[BTCTC] [SYNERGY] 1 @ 0.049 BTC [-]	[13:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.511 BTC [-]	[13:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 14 @ 0.5102 = 7.1428 BTC [-]	[13:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 8 @ 0.5101 = 4.0808 BTC [-]	[13:50]
ZedsterX	is there any where the BTC trading newb can go for learning the ropes?	[13:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 200 @ 0.51 = 102 BTC [-]	[13:51]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.5005 = 4.5045 BTC [-]	[13:52]
kakobrekla	#bitcoin-assets	[13:52]
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ZedsterX	the help here is not really for the newb	[13:52]
kakobrekla	its not?	[13:52]
kakobrekla	dunno	[13:53]
ZedsterX	you guys are very much in your own little all knowing group	[13:53]
kakobrekla	are you asking for yourself or someone else'	[13:54]
ZedsterX	myself	[13:54]
kakobrekla	well what do you want to know?	[13:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 106 @ 0.5003 = 53.0318 BTC [-]	[13:55]
ZedsterX	looking for stuff like chart reading and basics	[13:55]
kakobrekla	well for chart reading you can ask Enky	[13:55]
kakobrekla	you can start here http://btctrading.wordpress.com/	[13:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.16799 BTC [+]	[13:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.168 BTC [+]	[13:57]
ZedsterX	yeah i saw that sight yesterday guess i should read up there...thanks Kako	[13:57]
kakobrekla	yeah enky is around here or join #bit4x, more techincal stuff is discussed there	[13:58]
ZedsterX	VWAP? see right there i'm lost....also aren't basic day trading how-to sites helpful for the basics?	[13:59]
kakobrekla	take your time, read, learn	[14:00]
kakobrekla	http://btctrading.wordpress.com/technical-background/	[14:01]
ZedsterX	well S.DICE has already taught me my first lesson...that is the reason for interest	[14:01]
kakobrekla	check the pdfs here	[14:01]
kakobrekla	etc	[14:01]
ZedsterX	yep i am moving to the tablet for some reading...thanks again sir	[14:02]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.105 = 0.21 BTC [+]	[14:08]
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kakobrekla	no prob	[14:10]
kakobrekla	ZedsterX bug Enky if you have issues understanding	[14:10]
kakobrekla	;)	[14:10]
ZedsterX	will do ...and i'll tell you sent me :)	[14:14]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.2 = 0.4 BTC [+]	[14:31]
*	TradeFortress (~TradeFort@c58-111-143-105.thorn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:32]
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Troic_	!ticker m s.dice	[14:50]
assbot	[MPEX:S.DICE] 1D: 0.00599963 / 0.00599963 / 0.00599963 (650 shares, 3.90 BTC), 7D: 0.005 / 0.00576119 / 0.006 (50615 shares, 291.60 BTC), 30D: 0.00300001 / 0.00613748 / 0.0069 (2388881 shares, 14,661.72 BTC)	[14:50]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.769999 = 1.54 BTC [+]	[14:52]
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deadweasel	;;ticker	[15:01]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 47.29098, Best ask: 47.34967, Bid-ask spread: 0.05869, Last trade: 47.29098, 24 hour volume: 29361.03478444, 24 hour low: 46.05000, 24 hour high: 47.90000, 24 hour vwap: 47.08799	[15:01]
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kakobrekla	bfl site down - conspiraci	[15:16]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 12 @ 0.00575 = 0.069 BTC [+]	[15:17]
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Guest2434	!ticker h sdice	[15:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.50030000 / 0.51111382 / 0.57000000 (427 shares, 218.24560150 BTC), 7D: 0.46050000 / 0.55100234 / 0.61999910 (1008 shares, 555.41036353 BTC), 30D: 0.37000000 / 0.61443452 / 0.75900000 (5555 shares, 3413.18378474 BTC)	[15:22]
*	Guest2434 is now known as topace	[15:22]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.155 BTC [-]	[15:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.153 BTC [-]	[15:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.152 = 0.304 BTC [-]	[15:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 5 @ 0.15001 = 0.7501 BTC [-]	[15:24]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.15 = 0.3 BTC [-]	[15:24]
*	error4733 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[15:32]
kakobrekla	usagi: People like what I am doing or they wouldn't invest.	[15:34]
kakobrekla	yeah, people are also idiots.	[15:34]
kakobrekla	sorry, a > missing there, first line is a quote.	[15:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 15 @ 0.0051 = 0.0765 BTC [-]	[15:36]
deadweasel	investing in metals doesn't make one an idiot, but trading btc for it is.	[15:37]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 15 @ 0.00555 = 0.0833 BTC [+]	[15:48]
*	error4733 (~userirc@ip-80-236-228-196.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[15:49]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.0052 = 0.104 BTC [-]	[15:56]
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deadweasel	http://bitcointipper.com/index.html	[16:20]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 0.769999 = 2.31 BTC [+]	[16:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 15 @ 0.77 = 11.55 BTC [+]	[16:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 100 @ 0.77 = 77 BTC [+]	[16:36]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.789999 = 7.9 BTC [+]	[16:38]
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pigeons	your site deadweasel?	[16:40]
*	vampireb (~vampireb@blood.vampire.ro) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:42]
*	Chilca (~Chilca@67-203-147-98.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:46]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 0.79 = 1.58 BTC [+]	[17:04]
jurov	so i went on to research bit more about coinlab.. have to wade through bullshit like:	[17:08]
jurov	When our team discussed how to tackle these issues in the US, it seemed clear that Mt. Gox had by far the best security record in the Bitcoin exchange landscape.	[17:08]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 0.79 = 5.53 BTC [+]	[17:10]
ThickAsThieves	since they are so good at security we decided to take that role out of their hands for all US customers	[17:11]
imsaguy	shh	[17:16]
imsaguy	you aren't supposed to read that	[17:16]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [+]	[17:40]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.151 BTC [+]	[17:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.15 BTC [-]	[17:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.13151 BTC [-]	[17:44]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.1012 = 0.3036 BTC [-]	[17:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00073667 = 2.5047 BTC [+]	[17:49]
*	darkmethod has quit (Quit: Leaving...)	[18:00]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.52 = 1.56 BTC [+]	[18:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.515 BTC [-]	[18:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.11 BTC [+]	[18:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.51 = 2.04 BTC [-]	[18:11]
*	davout has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[18:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 57 @ 0.51 = 29.07 BTC [-]	[18:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.51 = 5.1 BTC [-]	[18:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.7 BTC [-]	[18:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 9 @ 1.82 = 16.38 BTC [+]	[18:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 7 @ 1.83 = 12.81 BTC [+]	[18:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 7 @ 0.5715 = 4.0005 BTC [+]	[18:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 3 @ 0.572 = 1.716 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.57377777 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.57399999 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.575 = 5.175 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.5849999 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.59 = 5.9 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.59 BTC [+]	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 4 @ 1.2 = 4.8 BTC [+]	[18:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 15 @ 1.3999 = 20.9985 BTC [+]	[18:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.3999 BTC [+]	[18:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.59 = 1.18 BTC [+]	[18:29]
*	Namworld (~Namworld@modemcable075.132-23-96.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:30]
*	Doffx (~doff@173-160-245-174-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 30 @ 0.79 = 23.7 BTC [+]	[18:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.59 BTC [+]	[18:34]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [+]	[18:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 25 @ 0.79 = 19.75 BTC [+]	[18:37]
kakobrekla	http://24.media.tumblr.com/06921f0d1ca90226d64ecbd050b8bd68/tumblr_mjoij4XdBZ1qf0u3po1_500.jpg	[18:39]
smickles	lol	[18:40]
topace	!ticker h sdice	[18:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.50030000 / 0.51471736 / 0.59000000 (523 shares, 269.19717916 BTC), 7D: 0.50030000 / 0.55025058 / 0.61999910 (1102 shares, 606.37614115 BTC), 30D: 0.37000000 / 0.61284029 / 0.75900000 (5666 shares, 3472.35306240 BTC)	[18:43]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 0.79 = 6.32 BTC [+]	[18:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.59 BTC [+]	[18:50]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 8 @ 0.398 = 3.184 BTC [+]	[19:05]
assbot	[BTCTC] [LTC-MINING] 2 @ 0.4 = 0.8 BTC [+]	[19:05]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 1 @ 1.3 BTC [-]	[19:10]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [+]	[19:11]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 1.999 BTC [+]	[19:11]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 4 @ 0.59 = 2.36 BTC [+]	[19:12]
ThickAsThieves	"NOTE: For your security, we automatically lock domain names 30 days after unlocking." Thanks GoDaddy...	[19:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 15 @ 0.59999 = 8.9999 BTC [+]	[19:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 9 @ 0.599999 = 5.4 BTC [+]	[19:14]
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smickles	;;calc 0.21253985/[ticker --last]	[19:25]
gribble	0.00447980555598	[19:25]
smickles	;;calc 0.21253985*[ticker --last]	[19:25]
gribble	10.083738518	[19:25]
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Diablo-D3	http://gigaom.com/2013/03/15/finnish-development-firm-offers-to-pay-salaries-partly-in-bitcoins/	[19:29]
kakobrekla	O_o	[19:29]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.159 BTC [+]	[19:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.1599 BTC [+]	[19:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.163 BTC [+]	[19:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.16439 BTC [+]	[19:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.19 BTC [+]	[19:30]
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topace	!ticker h sdice	[19:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:SDICE] 1D: 0.50030000 / 0.51892185 / 0.59999900 (550 shares, 285.40702016 BTC), 7D: 0.50030000 / 0.55155534 / 0.61999910 (1129 shares, 622.70598217 BTC), 30D: 0.37000000 / 0.61271479 / 0.75900000 (5692 shares, 3487.57260040 BTC)	[19:45]
*	CAP4120 is now known as ZedsterX	[19:46]
jurov	uh, mktdepth for live.coinbr still broken... should i duct tape it or wait for mircea?	[19:51]
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assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 25 @ 0.0052 = 0.13 BTC [-]	[19:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.0007249 = 2.3559 BTC [-]	[20:23]
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mircea_popescu	jurov heh. all better now	[20:30]
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mircea_popescu	in other news, josh-zerlan.com	[20:31]
jurov	SyntaxError: missing ) after argument list	[20:31]
jurov	[Break On This Error]	[20:31]
jurov	, 610]]}, "X.IDIFF.SEP": {"S": [[235000000, 10]], "B": []}});	[20:31]
jurov	the code still isn't valid	[20:32]
jurov	ah it begins with JurovP(JurovP({	[20:32]
jurov	thanks for mentioning me twice, not necessary :D	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	also deposits flushed.	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX you'll be well advised to remember chart reading as in, technical analysis is far from being accepted like newtonian mechanics is.	[20:35]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[20:35]
ZedsterX	huh?	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	double encapsulation ftw. test it j	[20:36]
ThickAsThieves	basically chart reading can be voodoo or hindsight 20/20 a lot of the time	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX re your earlier ocmplaint.	[20:36]
jurov	Parse error: syntax error, unexpected ')' in /home/polimedi/public_html/bitcoin/mpex-mktdepth-jsonp.php on line 37	[20:36]
ZedsterX	no one was complaining about anything	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	hum wtf is going on there	[20:37]
jurov	mircea, just deprecate it :P	[20:37]
ZedsterX	i was asking for help...which as this proves this is not the place to do it	[20:37]
jurov	hehe	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[20:38]
ThickAsThieves	Zed, mp is just saying, in your efforts to educate yourself, remember that chart reading isnt always reliable	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	fucking caching makes things insane.	[20:38]
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mircea_popescu	or at least that's what they'e telling me in a doomed attempt to avoid the firing squad	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	anyway. now!	[20:39]
ZedsterX	yes of course	[20:39]
ZedsterX	but it is an essential part of trading none the less	[20:39]
jurov	o/ live is working... but no trades happened today? argh	[20:39]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX doesn't have to be really. anyway, hard to know what is ofcourse and what isn't ofcourse from yoru pov, ya know ?	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6546 @ 0.00071102 = 4.6543 BTC [-	[20:40]
mircea_popescu	i see some at least.	[20:40]
ZedsterX	so then I put my question to you all knowing MP...where is a good place to read up on trading basics?	[20:40]
ThickAsThieves	;bc,stats	[20:40]
ThickAsThieves	so, Luke Jr flew out to BFL to save the day huh?	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX i have no idea man.	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	maybe something like http://www.google.com/search?q=trading+basics&complete=0 ?	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	(no sarcasm intended)	[20:41]
ZedsterX	tried that	[20:42]
jurov	ah yes... http://mpex.co/mpex-rss.php has last trade from March 12 :(	[20:42]
iz	ZedsterX: do you want to get into technical charts or what?	[20:42]
*	[\] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)	[20:42]
ThickAsThieves	Zed, you could always ask specific questions here while you educate yourself	[20:42]
ZedsterX	I was just looking for help ...trust me it won't happen again here	[20:42]
ThickAsThieves	rather than "how do i learn" you could ask "What is the diff between a green bar and a red bar" or such	[20:43]
iz	ZedsterX: i found this was useful for me, when i was first learning about trading stocks http://stockcharts.com/school/doku.php?id=chart_school	[20:43]
iz	particularly what all the technical indicators are suppose to mean	[20:43]
ThickAsThieves	i dont think any of us meant to tell you to gtfo w your Qs	[20:43]
ZedsterX	thanks iz	[20:43]
iz	np	[20:43]
ThickAsThieves	matter of fact you were given specific people to talk to too	[20:43]
ZedsterX	i am good thanks	[20:44]
ZedsterX	not trying to start shit at all	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	jurov nu-uh :D	[20:44]
ZedsterX	just wanna learn	[20:44]
jurov	mircea_popescu: did you test it? noe it's unparsable	[20:45]
ZedsterX	i try to keep my mouth shut here and pick up stuff just to avoid this very thing	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	jurov i was looking at it a moment ago, it came up as rss. lesee	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	"This is a valid RSS feed."	[20:45]
mircea_popescu	did something subtle change ?	[20:46]
*	corpsan (~bvanderve@173-164-83-17-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[20:46]
jurov	okay but firefox suddenly insists on displaying as text	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX dun sweat it man, nothing happened.	[20:46]
mircea_popescu	jurov hm	[20:46]
jurov	can't find out why	[20:46]
jurov	ah yes, it says Content-Type: text/html	[20:47]
ThickAsThieves	no harm done zed :)	[20:47]
jurov	never mind, coinbr script parses it fine	[20:48]
ZedsterX	so here's a specific question....dump S.DICE or hope for a comeback later in the month?	[20:49]
ZedsterX	:)	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	jurov ima add the header thing to the pile.	[20:49]
ThickAsThieves	there are a few strats you could take with sdice	[20:50]
ThickAsThieves	but none are totally reliable	[20:50]
ZedsterX	see right there sir...strats?	[20:50]
ThickAsThieves	strategies	[20:50]
jurov	mircea,np, it's ok. and don't forget to add stacktraces/ php code dumps on error. they're really helpful xD	[20:50]
ZedsterX	i know nothing...i will wait until I know wtf i am talking about	[20:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 1.999 = 3.998 BTC [+]	[20:50]
ZedsterX	heheh of course :)	[20:51]
ThickAsThieves	strats is a thing from when played WoW	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	jurov normally server responds with a fu on error, but this is the new stuff that's still being debugged	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	(and still not 100% ok, either).	[20:51]
ThickAsThieves	unrelated to stocks ;)	[20:51]
ZedsterX	kinda like aggro :	[20:51]
ThickAsThieves	right	[20:51]
ZedsterX	:)	[20:51]
ThickAsThieves	but with SDICE,	[20:51]
ZedsterX	MMORPG i understand :)	[20:51]
ThickAsThieves	keep an eye on the dividend for the month	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	its looking pretty low this month so far	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	whereas in past montgs	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	recently	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	its been higher	[20:52]
ZedsterX	where can you see an estimate of comi9ng dividends?	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	nowhere	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	but	[20:52]
ZedsterX	-9	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	you can figure it out	[20:52]
ZedsterX	ahh ok i see what your saying	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX there's dooglus' stuff which is pretty interesting	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	you seen that ?	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	Dooglus does a daily report	[20:53]
ZedsterX	no sir	[20:53]
ThickAsThieves	sec	[20:53]
ThickAsThieves	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=80312.0	[20:53]
ThickAsThieves	however	[20:53]
ThickAsThieves	he reports the TOTAL revenue	[20:53]
ThickAsThieves	all time	[20:53]
ZedsterX	right	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	and obviously there's no rule saying it has to do in the future what it did in the past.	[20:53]
ThickAsThieves	so you have to also reference the monthly statements	[20:53]
mircea_popescu	but still, interesting stuff	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	to know this months profit	[20:54]
ZedsterX	yes of course MP	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	to date	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	then what you can do	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	is divide the profit for themonth so far	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves what's it ahead so far for march ? like 1-2k ?	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	by how many days have passed	[20:54]
ZedsterX	ok i uderstand all that...so maybe I am not as dumb as i thought	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	then multiply by the number of days in this month	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	to project profit	[20:54]
ZedsterX	right	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	yeah mp	[20:55]
ThickAsThieves	pretty low	[20:55]
ThickAsThieves	but sensible numbers dont seem to affect sdice share price	[20:55]
ThickAsThieves	it seems to often do the opposite :/	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	lol ya, here's the funny thing i've noticed :	[20:55]
ZedsterX	i noticed that too and thought I was reading something wrong	[20:55]
mircea_popescu	when s.dice does well operationally, shares sell and price goes up	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	when it does poorly nobody is selling so trading freezes pretty much	[20:56]
ThickAsThieves	yep	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	it's as if there's group A which wants to buy cheap and hold forever and group B which wants to daytrade	[20:56]
ThickAsThieves	but there's still money to be made	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	and A is pretty much raping B	[20:56]
ThickAsThieves	day trading is still possible	[20:56]
ThickAsThieves	just a low qty	[20:56]
mircea_popescu	ya i guess so	[20:57]
mircea_popescu	anyway, when i'm old and i retire i'll write a book about the strange edge cases at the end of regulation in free mkt.	[20:57]
ThickAsThieves	if you are holding long term (which is a fantasy in bitcoin imo)	[20:58]
ThickAsThieves	then you look at everything differently	[20:58]
ThickAsThieves	if SDICE introduced a new product or game	[20:58]
ZedsterX	2 different games	[20:58]
ThickAsThieves	it could skyrocket	[20:58]
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ThickAsThieves	but erik doesnt wanna grow any faster than he is it seems	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	im not entirely what his strategy is	[20:59]
mircea_popescu	;;seen evoorhees	[20:59]
gribble	evoorhees was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 17 hours, 11 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: it's how resilient btc is in the face of them that matters	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	seems to be focusing more on his personal brand right now	[20:59]
ThickAsThieves	doing interviews and being a bitcoin jesus	[20:59]
ZedsterX	isn't he tied with coinbase somehow also?	[20:59]
Diablo-D3	http://bitcointipper.com/index.html	[21:00]
ThickAsThieves	could work for him	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	Diablo-D3 "Due to the high number of signups, we will not be able to accept new users."	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	sweet.	[21:00]
ThickAsThieves	gtg to a meeting ttyl	[21:00]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX is he ?	[21:00]
ZedsterX	voorhees	[21:01]
ZedsterX	oh you were asking me? :P	[21:02]
ZedsterX	i wanna say coinbase or something like that...heck what do i know	[21:02]
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ZedsterX	ahhh it's BitInstant	[21:04]
mircea_popescu	yeah	[21:04]
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mircea_popescu	i mean it's a small community, pretty much everyone knows everyone, but otherwise...	[21:04]
*	fishfishclone is now known as fishfishclone\|AF	[21:05]
ZedsterX	mircea_popescu: your in europe right?	[21:09]
kakobrekla	all the cool kids are.	[21:16]
ZedsterX	hehe	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[21:17]
ZedsterX	so why is there no BitInstant equivalent in EU? or do some countries? IE go to a store and pay cash for BTC instantly. I know Denmark doesn't	[21:18]
*	Smoovious has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[21:18]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX bitcoin-central.net is much better	[21:19]
*	Smoovious (~imp586@75-12-89-18.lightspeed.wyngmi.sbcglobal.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	you transfer funds to them isntantly and get bitcoin. sepa zone only, but miles ahead of mtgox and all the rest.	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	and they're properly registered (which nobody else is)	[21:19]
ZedsterX	sepa is not instant	[21:20]
ZedsterX	if i sepa from my online bank its queued for up to 24 hours	[21:20]
kakobrekla	another reason why bitcoin is 50.	[21:20]
ThickAsThieves	;;ticker	[21:21]
gribble	BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 46.85111, Best ask: 46.99000, Bid-ask spread: 0.13889, Last trade: 46.99000, 24 hour volume: 18791.39020569, 24 hour low: 46.35000, 24 hour high: 47.47999, 24 hour vwap: 47.08453	[21:21]
ThickAsThieves	meeting cancelled, yay	[21:21]
ZedsterX	and a $7 charge	[21:21]
mircea_popescu	ZedsterX i know it's specified as "up to 24 hours" but in practice i've yet not had a transfer not be instant.	[21:22]
ZedsterX	sweet i will check it out ..only business days though right?	[21:23]
mircea_popescu	well yes	[21:23]
ZedsterX	just checking i can hope	[21:23]
mircea_popescu	anyway, considering what zee american folk put up with the weeks of mtgox/coinlab/etc...	[21:25]
ThickAsThieves	i sent campbx a check monday last week	[21:26]
ThickAsThieves	they are a 6-hr drive from me	[21:26]
ThickAsThieves	still no deposit :/	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	typical horror story.	[21:26]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 20 @ 0.00545 = 0.109 BTC [+]	[21:28]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 11 @ 0.00545 = 0.06 BTC [+]	[21:28]
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mircea_popescu	Ukto https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153444.0 mebbe your plate.	[21:36]
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Ukto	thanks	[21:37]
ThickAsThieves	not sure if this is a silly question, but in BTCT's Analysis area, when i sell a share, which value does it use to determine the value of that one share if I paid various prices and own many?	[21:37]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 9 @ 0.79 = 7.11 BTC [+]	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	your cost basis would be logical.	[21:38]
ThickAsThieves	so it would take the amount i sold it for, subtract from the total current value and divide by whats left to give me my average	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	no.	[21:39]
ThickAsThieves	effectiveky	[21:39]
ThickAsThieves	?	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	you buy shares q1..q2 at prices p1...p2.	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	this aggregates into a qt, pt pair which is qt = sum qi ; pt = sum pi *qi / sum qi	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	when you sell a share it counts it at pt.	[21:40]
ThickAsThieves	got it	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	course, i'm just saying it'd be logical... have no idea how they actually do it.	[21:41]
ThickAsThieves	i was asking both sides kinda	[21:41]
kakobrekla	philosoraptor if pi 3.14, qi is 6.28?	[21:41]
ThickAsThieves	i know only burnside can answer that aspect	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:42]
Ukto	posted, thanks again MP. going back to sleep	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	nn	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	hm, so how do i find a talented game artist person ;/	[21:45]
*	jcpham is now known as ChubbyBeavers	[21:45]
ChubbyBeavers	howdy	[21:45]
jurov	mircea_popescu u have instant sepa transfers to france? O.o	[21:46]
ThickAsThieves	find a game you think has a appropriate art and find out who they worked with	[21:46]
jurov	you have osme private bank, no?	[21:46]
ThickAsThieves	howdy Chub	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	jurov shit i said too much huh	[21:46]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves that's an idea actually.	[21:46]
ThickAsThieves	is it illustrations or pixel work?	[21:47]
ThickAsThieves	or 2d rendering stuff?	[21:47]
ThickAsThieves	3d*	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	illustrations.	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	basically, game cards.	[21:47]
ThickAsThieves	ha!	[21:47]
ThickAsThieves	i was gonna say	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	wha ?	[21:47]
jurov	ZedsterX, i have to wait 1-2 days. but the fee is 20 cents at most, no problem	[21:47]
ThickAsThieves	look at MTG artists	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	whossat ?	[21:48]
ThickAsThieves	lotsa good ones with decent rates	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	(mp only fucks aritsts, doesn't know any)	[21:48]
ThickAsThieves	Magic The Gathering	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	is there a forum or somfin' ?	[21:48]
mircea_popescu	jobsite ?	[21:48]
ThickAsThieves	dunno about that,	[21:48]
ThickAsThieves	but you can browse card art pretty easily	[21:48]
ThickAsThieves	and they all say the artist name on the card	[21:48]
ThickAsThieves	and each artist typically has a website	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	you know this is pretty sweet an idea. thanks thicksy	[21:49]
ThickAsThieves	np	[21:49]
smickles	anyone here have a windows machine, an mpex account and a willingness to see if my mpex gui windows package will work on their system?	[21:49]
ThickAsThieves	there are also less popular games	[21:49]
ThickAsThieves	with just as good art	[21:49]
jurov	smickles i have	[21:49]
ThickAsThieves	those artists might be cheaper	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	i don't really mind paying something reasonable.	[21:49]
kakobrekla	send it over smickles	[21:50]
smickles	alright jurov, i'll setup a link to the file and pm it to ya	[21:50]
*	Namworld points to everyone to beware of smickles who will still private keys and said MPEx accounts.	[21:50]
jurov	i have only xp here. guess kako has sth better	[21:50]
Namworld	Just joking. Nice to see a GUI being made.	[21:50]
jurov	so we can both test	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	Namworld still ?	[21:50]
Doffx	mpex account still 50 btc?	[21:50]
mircea_popescu	Doffx 30 yet	[21:50]
Namworld	Wasn't it 30 BTC?	[21:51]
jurov	Doffx: no, 90	[21:51]
Doffx	lol	[21:51]
jurov	http://mpex.co/faq.html#17	[21:51]
ThickAsThieves	mp, http://tnielsen.com/	[21:51]
ThickAsThieves	she's pretty venerable in the MTG world	[21:51]
Doffx	Looks like 30	[21:52]
*	daybyter (~andreas@88-134-89-212-dynip.superkabel.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:52]
ThickAsThieves	this guy is dope too http://www.rkaneproductions.com/	[21:52]
ThickAsThieves	comic book artists is another idea	[21:53]
ThickAsThieves	i'll stop now :)	[21:53]
Namworld	You need an account Doffx? =/	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	Contact Us / FAQ. If you have a questions not answered below, please complete the Contact Information form below and we will contact you as soon as possible.	[21:53]
mircea_popescu	heh. i'll pass.	[21:53]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 0.79 BTC [+]	[21:55]
Doffx	No, I do not Namworld.	[21:55]
*	toffoo has quit ()	[21:55]
*	LainZ (~LainZ@nan92-8-88-178-252-103.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:59]
jborkl	smicklies, i can give it a try also	[22:10]
jborkl	smickles	[22:10]
*	dust-otc (~dust-otc@unaffiliated/dust-otc) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:13]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 2 @ 0.00545 = 0.0109 BTC [+]	[22:16]
jurov	moment, he has to redo it... unpacked it, the win directory was full with .so files and ELF binaries :D	[22:19]
*	[\] (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:30]
*	daybyter has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)	[22:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11606 @ 0.00073181 = 8.4934 BTC [+]	[22:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7714 @ 0.00073435 = 5.6648 BTC [+]	[22:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.DICE] 1475 @ 0.0058822 = 8.6762 BTC [-]	[22:49]
*	Chilca has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[22:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 586 @ 0.00073435 = 0.4303 BTC [+]	[22:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1400 @ 0.00073667 = 1.0313 BTC [+]	[22:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7939 @ 0.0007407 = 5.8804 BTC [+]	[22:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8594 @ 0.00074616 = 6.4125 BTC [+]	[22:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00076706 = 0.7671 BTC [+]	[22:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 481 @ 0.00076717 = 0.369 BTC [+]	[22:52]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 15 @ 0.79 = 11.85 BTC [+]	[22:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 7 @ 0.55 = 3.85 BTC [-]	[22:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.5311 BTC [-]	[22:54]
*	benkay (~benkay@173.sub-97-182-255.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:02]
*	corpsan has quit (Quit: corpsan)	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	anyone doing store gift stuff for btc anymore ?	[23:05]
ChubbyBeavers	i normally convert to amazon these days	[23:06]
ChubbyBeavers	can get almost everything on amazon	[23:06]
*	ChubbyBeavers is now known as jcpham	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	mp, doesnt bitmit have those?	[23:07]
ThickAsThieves	or SR	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	i want trader joe;'s specifically	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves i have no idea tbh	[23:07]
jcpham	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153453.0;topicseen	[23:07]
jcpham	^ mircea_popescu	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	jcpham i like dt's reply	[23:08]
jcpham	ya me too	[23:09]
jcpham	what causes people to share that much info with strangers	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	boredom.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	i think you underestimate just how empty the average life is.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	notwithstanding midnightmagic's copacetic delusions, the majority of the population lives confined to a vinyl siding box with a lcd screen in it. that's all, all day long, weeks after weeks after weeks.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	just... empty nothing.	[23:11]
jcpham	i mostly just masterbate	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	master bait ?	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	master bathe ?	[23:12]
jcpham	no i put my hand on my cock	[23:12]
jcpham	and move it around a lot until i orgasm	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	o urcock. with an u :D	[23:12]
jcpham	try it sometime	[23:13]
*	skytrader_ (4cadd9da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.173.217.218) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	im wrapped up too tight.	[23:13]
skytrader_	hi everyone. Is btc-e down?	[23:13]
jcpham	i'm lying, I've never masterbated in my life	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	hi skytrader_ we dunno. is it ?	[23:14]
*	benkay has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[23:14]
skytrader_	I can go to www.btc-e.com but I can't load any other page	[23:14]
jborkl	micrea-popescu, I do not know how you don't strangle puppies after IRC	[23:15]
jborkl	or BCT	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	jborkl cause i cut up rabbits.	[23:15]
jborkl	oh, well -I see	[23:15]
*	benkay (~benkay@154.sub-97-181-145.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:20]
*	benkay has quit (Client Quit)	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	https://www.bitinstant.com/	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	Could not connect to remote server	[23:21]
mircea_popescu	am i alone ?	[23:21]
Namworld	yes	[23:22]
Namworld	I hope it's not too lonely out there.	[23:22]
jurov	so, bitcoins end up being considered gateway drug and banned thus? funny	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	jurov ?	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	Hmm, www.bitinstant.com isn't loading right now.	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	The computers that run www.bitinstant.com are having some trouble. Usually this is just a temporary problem, so you might want to try again in a few minutes.	[23:23]
jborkl	butterfly labs getting ddos	[23:23]
mircea_popescu	dude its not even resolving	[23:23]
jurov	saw that thead... guy wanted to invest, lost all to sdice	[23:23]
*	benkay (~benkay@154.sub-97-181-145.myvzw.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:23]
jurov	oh, why nobody told him to buy s.dice stock? must fix.	[23:24]
Namworld	Would be funny that BFL never delivers...	[23:25]
jborkl	he thought he would invest in less than 1	[23:26]
ThickAsThieves	bitinstant.com Error 21 (net::ERR_NETWORK_CHANGED): Unknown error.	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	Namworld http://browsershots.org/https://www.bitinstant.com/	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	it's mostly not loading.	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	i think they're getting da ddos.	[23:26]
Namworld	oh. I only tried once but it loaded	[23:26]
Namworld	DDoS possibly, yeah	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	you prolly rode the storm	[23:26]
ThickAsThieves	loads now	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves if you look there, it loaded for like 2% of the browsers. typical ddos sympthom	[23:27]
*	darkee (~darkee@gateway/tor-sasl/darkee) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:27]
Namworld	I'll assume someone manipulated the price, sold a bunch near 30-50 and his now trying to impact Bitcoin negatively. But only because I don't like the idea someone would do it for entertainment purposes/spite.	[23:29]
Namworld	I refresh but it loads in like 0.25 seconds here each time.	[23:30]
Namworld	Odd.	[23:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.837898 = 8.379 BTC [+]	[23:30]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 0.837899 = 8.379 BTC [+]	[23:31]
assbot	[BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 0.83799 = 3.352 BTC [+]	[23:31]
mircea_popescu	interesting.	[23:31]
Anduck	wtf	[23:32]
Anduck	asicminer is so overrated	[23:32]
Anduck	xD	[23:32]
Anduck	0.84 for a share	[23:32]
assbot	[BTCTC] [GSDPT] 2 @ 0.005199 = 0.0104 BTC [+]	[23:32]
Anduck	kidneys?	[23:32]
Anduck	(those were my shares that got sold btw=	[23:32]
Namworld	I could have had 2k if mircea hadn't borrowed them to short long ago xD	[23:32]
*	aethero has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[23:33]
jcpham	taking the pools offline at the same time and solomining is probably the most profitable thing you can do	[23:33]
jcpham	seems like no one is trying that anymore	[23:33]
mircea_popescu	lol ya that didn't work too well huh.	[23:33]
mircea_popescu	jcpham how does that work ? spend a week on a block ?	[23:33]
jcpham	well back when things were simpler...	[23:34]
Namworld	oddly enough, A good idea it would appear, but you'd need people to stick to those pools for like a whole difficulty to bring it down.	[23:34]
Namworld	They'd probably all switch to solo	[23:34]
*	aethero (~kvirc@unaffiliated/aethero) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:34]
jcpham	you don't need a terahash	[23:35]
Anduck	so umm	[23:38]
Anduck	what do you guys think of ASICMINER share value?	[23:38]
Anduck	i think it's way high...	[23:38]
*	skytrader_ has quit (Quit: Page closed)	[23:39]
Namworld	Some think it's undervalued... idk	[23:39]
ThickAsThieves	if the asic release climate remains unchanged, other than asicminer getting 60TH online	[23:45]
ThickAsThieves	its grossly undervalued	[23:45]
ThickAsThieves	but obv Luke Jr will save the day for BFL, he's our HeeRo right?	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves so far avalons seem to be dominating hashing	[23:47]
mircea_popescu	judging by how unknowns have shrunk the asicminer pools	[23:47]
ThickAsThieves	are they i havent been keeping up i guess	[23:47]
ThickAsThieves	do they mostly use ozcoin?	[23:48]
ThickAsThieves	oh wait	[23:48]
ThickAsThieves	you said uknowns	[23:48]
*	thepok has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[23:49]
jborkl	300 units by 68- should be about 20 th from avalon- depending on what is delivered	[23:49]
tiberiusiv	unknows are like 55-60% of the pool now	[23:49]
jborkl	network is at 39 th	[23:49]
tiberiusiv	how many avalons are already out?	[23:49]
jborkl	how much is asicminer supposed to be?	[23:50]
jborkl	how many th	[23:50]
ThickAsThieves	asic is at 6th i think	[23:51]
ThickAsThieves	asicminer	[23:51]
jborkl	6th from am- 10 from avalon and the 24 we had before	[23:52]
jborkl	seems about right	[23:52]
*	corpsan (~bvanderve@71-222-110-94.ptld.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:52]
jurov	;;bc,stats	[23:52]
*	Bugpowder has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[23:52]
gribble	Current Blocks: 226060 \| Current Difficulty: 4847647.152065606 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 227807 \| Next Difficulty In: 1747 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 22 hours, 13 minutes, and 38 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: 5828967.64264 \| Estimated Percent Change: 20.24323	[23:52]
ThickAsThieves	i think there are some other factors to consider re stock values that people aret considering,	[23:53]
ThickAsThieves	that we are spoiled at current interest rates	[23:53]
ThickAsThieves	which will get squeezed to be smaller over time	[23:53]
ThickAsThieves	and which assets will be most resilient to that	[23:53]
ThickAsThieves	asicminer? sdice?	[23:53]
jurov	ThickAsThieves: how they will get squeezed?	[23:54]
ThickAsThieves	more investors	[23:54]
ThickAsThieves	more money being invested overall	[23:54]
jurov	yes, dramatic price increase then... and that's bad thing?	[23:54]
ThickAsThieves	today i can be picky and say and choose from stuff that pays 1%, 2%, 5% per month	[23:55]
ThickAsThieves	but thats so high in the scheme of things	[23:55]
ThickAsThieves	or should i say, compared to wall st	[23:56]
ThickAsThieves	and banks	[23:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00672 BTC [-]	[23:56]
assbot	[BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.006711 BTC [-]	[23:57]
tiberiusiv	rates will decline on bitcoin investments	[23:57]
assbot	[BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 2 @ 0.000674 = 0.0013 BTC [-]	[23:58]
jurov	As long as whole thing remains unregulated, there will be new HYIPs, some even legit.	[23:58]
tiberiusiv	without taxes + reg burdens most stock market dividends would be 30-80% higher then they are today	[23:59]
assbot	[BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 1 @ 0.0099 BTC [-]	[23:59]

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