Forum logs for 14 Jul 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

asciilifeform	mod6: have you made any experiment to learn whether binary changes at all when this flag is set ?	[00:00]
asciilifeform	might be interesting	[00:00]
mod6	statically built. but I recall going through this in march how we needed that in there... just maybe overly paranoid.	[00:00]
mod6	<@asciilifeform> might be interesting << i have not, as of yet.	[00:00]
trinque	didn't openssl itself have some derpy module-loader thing?	[00:00]
mod6	would be easy for me to try now though.	[00:00]
trinque	perhaps the flag enables/disables that	[00:01]
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decimation	yes, openssl had a dynamic library loader flag	[00:03]
asciilifeform	aha	[00:03]
asciilifeform	what was it	[00:03]
decimation	sigh, search is down	[00:04]
asciilifeform	no-dso iirc	[00:04]
mircea_popescu	I have created a simple build script << you may consider signing some of the things you pull	[00:04]
asciilifeform	^^^	[00:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00055519 = 6.6068 BTC [+]	[00:04]
asciilifeform	pleez folks, sign	[00:04]
asciilifeform	if you read, understood - sign.	[00:05]
mod6	sign the patches before pulling?	[00:05]
asciilifeform	can sign and say 'this is a bad idea', note	[00:05]
mod6	this is for Experimental only.	[00:05]
asciilifeform	doesn't imply endorsement	[00:05]
decimation	yeah no-dso http://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Compilation_and_Installation	[00:05]
mod6	I only stamp approval at release time.	[00:05]
assbot	Compilation and Installation - OpenSSLWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1HZBy91 )	[00:05]
mircea_popescu	ag3nt_zer0 i dun particularly care one way or the other. the discussion's in teh logs which atm can't be searched it seems.	[00:06]
asciilifeform	a signature from a reasonably literate wot face, 'i read this and it made sense', is worth something.	[00:06]
asciilifeform	to me, at least.	[00:06]
decimation	mthreat explained his hosting guy forgot to pay the bills	[00:06]
ag3nt_zer0	yeah was just gonna say search not working	[00:06]
mod6	There are some very far reaching effects of the patches applied in these build logs. They appear to "work", but as of yet, they're basically untested.	[00:06]
mircea_popescu	mod6 not strongarming you	[00:07]
asciilifeform	ag3nt_zer0: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-07-2015#1199502 << thread	[00:07]
assbot	Logged on 13-07-2015 18:43:01; ascii_field: http://www.businessinsider.com/proxyham-anonymising-router-project-mysteriously-closed-down-government-rhino-caudill-2015-7 << other lulz of the day	[00:07]
mod6	not taken that way :]	[00:07]
ag3nt_zer0	asciilifeform: yes I found that... thx	[00:07]
asciilifeform	mod6: thus far the longest-running test is the s.nsa node.	[00:07]
asciilifeform	it features my entire shebang through 'stator'.	[00:08]
mod6	that's good!	[00:08]
ag3nt_zer0	was just looking up z86 heh	[00:08]
asciilifeform	presently 47 connections, incl. a bunch of cn, interestingly	[00:08]
mircea_popescu	nb.	[00:09]
ag3nt_zer0	z80	[00:09]
asciilifeform	usually hovers between 35-50	[00:09]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: pay it a visit, log in, see if spot anybody you know...	[00:10]
mircea_popescu	eh, im working on an eulora release rightnao	[00:10]
asciilifeform	neat	[00:10]
mod6	ok building again without 'no-shared' for binary examination	[00:11]
mod6	<@asciilifeform> doesn't imply endorsement << ok. i was just under the impression that's excatly what it meant.	[00:12]
mod6	I emboss cryptographically, stating that I've read, comprehended, approved and would apply in my own battlestation.	[00:13]
asciilifeform	normally folks say why they're signing something	[00:13]
asciilifeform	when they sign it	[00:13]
mod6	That's fair if it has a disclaimer.	[00:13]
mod6	lol, guess I just didn't wanna clutter up the turdomatic or confuse anyone either.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	compared to most similar boards, it is practically empty	[00:14]
asciilifeform	(imho a 'feature, not bug')	[00:14]
mod6	less is more, as always. if there's too much in there, it's less likely to be read.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	has plenty of room for assorted strange.	[00:14]
asciilifeform	without becoming crowded.	[00:15]
mod6	I see, we just have a bit different view of the thing. I only wanna send stuff in that I can pretty much stand behind.	[00:15]
mod6	One of the resasons that I haven't even posted the gentoo build guide to the list either.	[00:16]
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mod6	I've tested it, trinque has tested it, but we need a third party to independantly verify so I know what I'm publishing there is as correct as it can be.	[00:17]
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mod6	I'll give this some further thought going forward. I don't wanna hold off on pulling the trigger on this stuff if all I need is simple skull & cross bones.	[00:17]
trinque	I can see the point that two signatures would've communicated what you said, mod6	[00:18]
asciilifeform	feel free to use a different graphic if the old 'jolly roger' has gotten boring	[00:18]
trinque	with some note	[00:18]
trinque	ascii-dickbutt	[00:18]
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mod6	asciilifeform: noted.	[00:18]
mod6	<+trinque> I can see the point that two signatures would've communicated what you said, mod6 << in that it would have been 1/2 of the foundation's official seal?	[00:19]
mod6	i thought so too. and it's a credit to my trust of asciilifeform that I verify his signature, and we have a L1 trust between us.	[00:20]
mod6	eh, that was poorly worded. I think you all understand my meaning.	[00:20]
asciilifeform	trust & fuzzies is great, but i'd really like folks to start reading the patches	[00:21]
asciilifeform	(mod6 does. ben_vulpes? who else)	[00:21]
trinque	I mean that it indelibly marks the text in question with the involvement of the signers	[00:21]
asciilifeform	trinque?	[00:21]
asciilifeform	and yes, after read, and think - sign.	[00:21]
trinque	I do read the mailing list, yes	[00:21]
asciilifeform	'i read this, grasped it'	[00:21]
asciilifeform	or even 'i read this and it made no fucking sense and wtf'	[00:22]
trinque	oh that reminds me	[00:22]
trinque	jurov: tls outbound smtp for the mailing list plz?	[00:22]
trinque	should be a simple switch to flip in main.cf	[00:22]
trinque	(if postfix)	[00:22]
trinque	for no better reason than I've required it on my end and it cut spam by 100x	[00:22]
asciilifeform	trinque: why was this needed ?	[00:22]
asciilifeform	hm	[00:23]
mod6	asciilifeform: point taken. glad we talked about it. and yeah, very much so read and examine every patch.	[00:23]
asciilifeform	trinque: it's also how you get the next 'hearbleed' on your box	[00:23]
asciilifeform	*heart	[00:23]
trinque	yeah that is true	[00:23]
asciilifeform	this atmosphere where 'gotta have ssl or else' is an engineered product	[00:23]
trinque	sure, I wasn't saying that	[00:23]
asciilifeform	i advocate - resistance.	[00:23]
trinque	the box was getting ass-blasted with spam	[00:24]
asciilifeform	there are other ways to filter spam, no ?	[00:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00054366 = 4.7842 BTC [-]	[00:24]
trinque	sure, was running spamassassin and whatnot	[00:24]
trinque	your point about heartbleed is well taken	[00:24]
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asciilifeform	i also have a habit, of compulsively re-reading own patches	[00:25]
asciilifeform	to see if made a mistake.	[00:25]
asciilifeform	i recommend this habit.	[00:25]
mod6	it does help. i often have to come back to it like a day later and re-read my own stuff for the 9th time.	[00:25]
asciilifeform	a mistake that is owned up to, before it sinks any ships - can perhaps be accepted as a mistake, and forgiven	[00:26]
asciilifeform	not sure about other kinds	[00:26]
asciilifeform	as the war heats up.	[00:26]
mod6	also more eyes help too. sometimes we all miss stuff.	[00:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00054366 = 12.9119 BTC [-]	[00:27]
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trinque	I'm off; gnite gents	[00:28]
mod6	night trinque	[00:29]
asciilifeform	later	[00:29]
mod6	I'll make an effort this week to sign the patches I've read and understand, even if still experimental at this time.	[00:30]
asciilifeform	i recall that last we spoke of this, folks signed and noticed that jurov's patch sig widget didn't eat them correctly	[00:31]
asciilifeform	and stopped	[00:31]
mod6	and I'll find a new ascii art instead of the jolly roger ;)	[00:31]
asciilifeform	possibly i misremember.	[00:31]
asciilifeform	check, when search comes back	[00:31]
mod6	ah, yeah... hm. I believe when I went to sign all the patches from the last release, I had to pull the patches, and then sign them as if I had wrote them myself for them to be accepted.	[00:32]
mod6	They needed to basically have the same SHA1s as the originals, with my own detatched sig.	[00:32]
mod6	Anyway, yah, will take a look when search comes back.	[00:33]
mod6	Someday, we're gonna get the kinks worked out of this system.	[00:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87466 @ 0.00054424 = 47.6025 BTC [+] {2}	[00:34]
mod6	ok this build is just about done...	[00:35]
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ag3nt_zer0	good night	[00:38]
mod6	ni	[00:38]
ag3nt_zer0	whoops that was for trinque... hadn' scrolled	[00:39]
phf	ben_vulpes: http://glyf.org/screenshots/eulora3.png!	[00:39]
assbot	404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1CB8eW2 )	[00:39]
mod6	asciilifeform: ok, compile complete.	[00:40]
asciilifeform	http://janestreet.github.io << unrelated l0lpharm, for connoisseurs of 'functional' prog. styles	[00:42]
assbot	Open Source @ Jane Street ... ( http://bit.ly/1CB8p3M )	[00:42]
mod6	welp, they do hvae differenet hashes. that at least is obv.	[00:43]
asciilifeform	mod6: hexdump -C, then diff	[00:43]
mod6	ok, i was just gonna do a quick `xxd \| less` and look at 'em side by side.	[00:45]
mod6	ok looking through the hexdump -C diff now....	[00:49]
asciilifeform	mod6: also worth comparing objdump output	[00:50]
asciilifeform	probably oughta begin there, vs the hex	[00:50]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[00:51]
mod6	yeah, i thought about that first actually. but gotta recompile since bins are striped	[00:52]
mod6	*stripped	[00:52]
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mod6	i'll tackle that tomorrow i think.	[00:56]
mod6	night all!	[00:57]
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ag3nt_zer0	Gute Nacht!	[01:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67637 @ 0.00055146 = 37.2991 BTC [+] {2}	[01:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30750 @ 0.00055533 = 17.0764 BTC [+] {2}	[01:12]
mircea_popescu	holy shit phf you found wooly mushroom ?!	[01:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52050 @ 0.00055536 = 28.9065 BTC [+]	[01:27]
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phf	i will neither confirm nor deny it until i understand the implications :>	[01:33]
danielpbarron	i'll buy your keys+enumerations	[01:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49636 @ 0.00054258 = 26.9315 BTC [-] {2}	[01:41]
phf	speaking of, why are keys get turned into little bit o' nothings?	[01:43]
mircea_popescu	nothing's forever.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	!up moneycat	[01:47]
-assbot-	You voiced moneycat for 30 minutes.	[01:47]
*	assbot gives voice to moneycat	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	phf http://trilema.com/2015/an-image-worth-ten-thousand-words-of-sadness/ << implications	[01:47]
assbot	An image worth ten thousand words of sadness. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DdHlSN )	[01:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114400 @ 0.00055561 = 63.5618 BTC [+] {2}	[01:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66762 @ 0.0005416 = 36.1583 BTC [-]	[01:58]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41000 @ 0.00053454 = 21.9161 BTC [-] {2}	[02:00]
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cazalla	mircea_popescu, is this ddos on qntra or something else?	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	ddos.	[02:18]
mircea_popescu	its up right now neh ?	[02:19]
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cazalla	not from here	[02:34]
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BingoBoingo	Seems down	[02:36]
mircea_popescu	now it is lol	[02:40]
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mircea_popescu	actually... i see it.	[02:41]
mircea_popescu	slow tho.	[02:41]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30400 @ 0.00054874 = 16.6817 BTC [+]	[02:44]
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phf	well, that was my first eulora drama, came back to find my future fortune literally crumble to little bits o' nothing. tracked the coordinates, explored.. nothing. literally feels like i just frantically dug a bunch of earth looking for wooly mushrooms that are no longer there	[02:49]
mircea_popescu	aw! why didn't you dig therm up on the spot like ?	[02:49]
phf	i had no time to, i was enjoying the scenery :)	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	lol	[02:51]
mircea_popescu	sucks, the mushrooms are in short supply.	[02:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34450 @ 0.00055472 = 19.1101 BTC [+]	[02:52]
phf	scuffed up my pick for nothing too. eulora is unforgiving!	[02:52]
mircea_popescu	well... so how do youi like the scenery ?	[02:55]
mircea_popescu	;;ticker	[02:59]
gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker \| Best bid: 289.0, Best ask: 289.01, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 289.0, 24 hour volume: 69603.92785995, 24 hour low: 281.5, 24 hour high: 308.8, 24 hour vwap: None	[02:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20019 @ 0.00055472 = 11.1049 BTC [+]	[02:59]
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phf	it's amusing, old school. reminds me of early 3d rpgs. i didn't realize how small the island is though. needs more scenery	[03:00]
mircea_popescu	incientally, you can lock claims you know ?	[03:02]
phf	mircea_popescu: oh, then and they stick around?	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	ya	[03:02]
mircea_popescu	anyway, as the population progresses there's gonna be moar maps, but atm too noobish :D	[03:03]
mircea_popescu	you folk haven't even built a ship yet!	[03:03]
phf	:o	[03:04]
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mircea_popescu	or an escherian trestlework even	[03:04]
phf	i saw someone's tent so i assume that was possible, but a ship	[03:04]
phf	are you thinking of extending the same map, or completely new locations via teleports or such?	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	the latter.	[03:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28300 @ 0.00055472 = 15.6986 BTC [+]	[03:07]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the whole thing is very much player driven. for instance, out of the ~dozen skills available, afaik players found like .. 4 so far ? i guess 5.	[03:08]
mircea_popescu	there's going to be an update this week adding more, but i doubt anyone's gonna see it this month. maybe. depends how seriously ppl play.	[03:09]
mircea_popescu	and generally, i expect expansions to be there long before anyone actually reached the point where they can play them	[03:10]
mircea_popescu	at least, that's the intended strategy.	[03:10]
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phf	well, my initial impression is that it would be hard to discover all the available functionality	[03:12]
BingoBoingo	Does Eulora have chairs yet, so that they may be stacked for space exploration purposes?	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo yes.	[03:13]
phf	i started with help, but there wasn't even a mention of mining, and some of the commands that are in help are not implemented (e.g. /dig)	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	crucial tool for mcguyvering too.	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	phf yeah the helpfile as bundled with the client is a mess atm.	[03:13]
phf	oh i thought that was pulled from the server	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	if you read the first node, which is really all that i've bothered with, it even tells you the location on disk	[03:14]
mircea_popescu	make your own :D	[03:14]
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phf	ha	[03:14]
phf	"lock yo shit!"	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	it'll get wiped eventually even if locked, but you get more than the unlocked hour.	[03:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83137 @ 0.00055533 = 46.1685 BTC [+] {4}	[03:17]
mircea_popescu	anyway, the current eulora problem as far as miners are concerned is : there's a single shot very powerful mining tool, which seems like the oinly hope to acquire essential resources choking toolmaking and cooking. since these are in short supply, people are working to make a map of known resources, so as to explore the unknown spots	[03:17]
mircea_popescu	so you can help with that.	[03:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146113 @ 0.00055648 = 81.309 BTC [+] {3}	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	or alternatively you could find someone to sell you the crafting starter item and try to get skill starter drops	[03:18]
mircea_popescu	which has also been pretty slow.	[03:18]
phf	it's very much a scarcity world	[03:20]
mircea_popescu	well, the copper's bitcoin based, so.	[03:20]
phf	right, exactly i was about to say, necessary with the funding model	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	not even the funding model, it deliberately has a strong currency for purely game design concerns	[03:21]
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mircea_popescu	none of that bullshit bezzle game economics, ima puke if i see another SoJ	[03:21]
mircea_popescu	!up CrazyLoafer	[03:21]
-assbot-	You voiced CrazyLoafer for 30 minutes.	[03:21]
*	assbot gives voice to CrazyLoafer	[03:21]
CrazyLoafer	wow this is where all the celebrities hang out :O	[03:22]
CrazyLoafer	i enjoy your writings mircea_popescu :)	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	an' who might you be ?	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	cool.	[03:22]
CrazyLoafer	just a crypto investor; saw a mention of this site and wanted to check it out	[03:22]
mircea_popescu	!topic	[03:23]
cazalla	CrazyLoafer, what are your investments?	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	hm that dun work huh. anyway, logs are in teh topic.	[03:23]
CrazyLoafer	BTC, LTC, XMR, some other smaller alts	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	which was xmr again ?	[03:23]
CrazyLoafer	monero	[03:24]
CrazyLoafer	rpietila's coin :P	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	haha i thought it was fluffypony 's	[03:24]
CrazyLoafer	well his too	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	wait.	[03:24]
mircea_popescu	fluffypony you actually met the silver baron dude ?	[03:24]
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mircea_popescu	!up artilectinc	[03:30]
-assbot-	You voiced artilectinc for 30 minutes.	[03:30]
*	assbot gives voice to artilectinc	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	phf or for that matter wow style "rares" which everyone has. wtf is achievement even supposed to mean outside of a scarcity world.	[03:30]
mircea_popescu	dumbass ipad games, you tap the screen twice and it's CONGRATULATIONS! you're level 5.	[03:30]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114303 @ 0.00055811 = 63.7936 BTC [+] {4}	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	which obviously, together with their inability to model, makes bullshit like "level caps" unavoidable and on and fucking on	[03:32]
*	mircea_popescu doesn't actually like anything about current games.	[03:32]
mircea_popescu	i guess the melonsized tits are ok, if pressed.	[03:32]
*	BingoBoingo built cal3d, building crystalspace, seeing later if Eulora builds	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	what on, ubuntu ? tis breezy	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: OpenBSD	[03:33]
phf	3d jiggle technologies have gone a long way	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	cal3d was in ports, so yay	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	phf cheaper to just put one slave girl on twerk detail while playing an actual game	[03:33]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo mind that you need a specific one.	[03:33]
phf	:D	[03:33]
BingoBoingo	Well only one way to find out	[03:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63595 @ 0.00053865 = 34.2554 BTC [-] {2}	[03:38]
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mircea_popescu	this is true.	[03:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11098 @ 0.0005376 = 5.9663 BTC [-]	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	if you manage to get it going on openbsd put the recipe in http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora ima give you some gin or wine or something	[03:39]
assbot	Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1IXaQhR )	[03:39]
BingoBoingo	K	[03:40]
phf	it seems like a tricky balance between integrity and fun. i've not thought about this enough, but it seems the more integrity you have in game the more you gain by not actually directly playing the game	[03:41]
BingoBoingo	I'm just trying the lazy way before actually hunting down the "correct" versions of Cal3d and crystalspace	[03:41]
phf	mining for example is usually solved either by people who have nothing better to do but grind, or else heavy scripting	[03:41]
mircea_popescu	eulora mining is complex.	[03:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26800 @ 0.00056078 = 15.0289 BTC [+] {3}	[03:47]
*	assbot removes voice from CrazyLoafer	[03:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78600 @ 0.00056172 = 44.1512 BTC [+]	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	phf in any case, there is no actual incentive to bot, or i suppose the proper format would be to say everyone can bot just as well.	[03:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65900 @ 0.00056172 = 37.0173 BTC [+] {2}	[03:54]
phf	i'm thinking i don't know enough about how eulora world works to say much. you mentioned that people are mapping mining locations, but then i tried searching for mushrooms around a location where i found them previously and couldn't find any	[03:56]
phf	so i'm sure there's some kind of logic there that i don't yet understand	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	but basically, from a player pov, the economy is elastic enough you can choose. you wish to risk 100 coppers per click, do X. you wish to risk 10k per click, no need to do X 100 times, can just as well do Y.	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	whereas in stupid games, it's "faucet X is the biggest, gotta bot this or bust".	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	and it has little to dowith bottage, it becomes a time arbitrage - if bots are prevented chinese farms will do it by hand	[03:58]
phf	seems like if i wanted to find them, i might as well write a bot that would do random walk, then explore, etc. let it run for a day. though that will cost me in pick quality. hmm	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	well yes.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	that's exactly it.	[03:58]
phf	i see what you mean above	[03:58]
phf	right	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	some people enjoy the detail, they can do X. some people enjoy pacino's puckered asshole... let them do y.	[03:59]
*	assbot gives voice to fluffypony	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	there's no level cap either, you can craft anything as a noob.	[03:59]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: yep I have, although afaik he's getting out the silver game	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	so is he for real ?	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	had the longest standing debate with hanbot, whether he's a superellaborate troll or what.	[04:00]
fluffypony	yeah, and he's a nice enough guy, had fun drinking with him in Berlin	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	nuts.	[04:00]
fluffypony	which of you said he isn't a troll?	[04:00]
*	assbot removes voice from artilectinc	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	amusingly, we took turns at it over the years.	[04:00]
fluffypony	lol	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	but mostly, her.	[04:01]
fluffypony	CrazyLoafer: Risto holds XMR, and he's vocal, but he's not responsible for directing it in any way - https://getmonero.org/knowledge-base/people	[04:01]
assbot	The People Behind Monero \| Monero - secure, private, untraceable ... ( http://bit.ly/1K5fpFN )	[04:01]
scoopbot_revived	The increasingly tricky proposition of multiculturalism. http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/14/the-increasingly-tricky-proposition-of-multiculturalism/	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	phf which is why it's fun - actually fun. because you gotta find a way. it's too complex to effectually model even, at least so far, so therefore what bots.	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	now, granted, this isn'tr most people's idea of fun - having an untractable problem in their lap.	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	then again, i don't give a shit about most people.	[04:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58300 @ 0.0005575 = 32.5023 BTC [-]	[04:07]
phf	well, it was naive of me to expect a b-a game to be mindless ;)	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	it is pretty disruptive, or in the converse expression, it isn't at all described by what people think when they hear the word mmorpg.	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell nubbins` btw, phf managed to get it going on os/x	[04:18]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[04:18]
trinque	http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/13/donald-trump-el-chapo_n_7788128.html	[04:24]
assbot	Donald Trump Calls FBI After El Chapo, Escaped Drug Lord, Threatens Him On Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1K3C4Fb )	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	they'd better shut down his account!	[04:24]
trinque	seriously where are the administrators	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	threats are a serious matter. expecially on the internets!	[04:24]
trinque	lol	[04:24]
trinque	this would be the best publicity yet for mr trump	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	and especiallymost when directed at random starlets so desperate for publicity they'd eat their own head	[04:26]
ag3nt_zer0	I struggle to see how cultural relativism, multiculturalism as manisfest in states, offers any sort of couldn't-do-without-benefit to the western civilizational heritage... It seems to be manifested as a hugely destructive and degenerative force in US regarding everything from lowered national debate standards to laxed educational standards, erosion of free speech, critical theory where it doesn't really belong, poltical	[04:27]
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ag3nt_zer0	past and thus no concern for the future,, etc	[04:27]
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mircea_popescu	ag3nt_zer0 cultural relativism has just about nothing to do with multiculturalism	[04:29]
mircea_popescu	the relationship is quite akin fast food and cuisine.	[04:29]
mircea_popescu	mr tricatel isn't in any sense part of the academie francaise, that's for mr. duchemin	[04:30]
mircea_popescu	(you seen l'aile ou la cuisse ?)	[04:30]
ag3nt_zer0	mircea_popescu: in the states this is what it is	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	mno	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	"the states" isn't a special place where the derps can get 5 to be an transcendental if they so agree.	[04:31]
ag3nt_zer0	I think we are talking about different thnigs here	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	aha ?	[04:32]
ag3nt_zer0	Here it becomes simply a term that excuses all of that shit I described	[04:32]
trinque	I think we just wiped our ass with our only copy of the language.	[04:32]
mircea_popescu	sure, and there you also have "the country of africa" and assorted other fictions	[04:32]
ag3nt_zer0	its lumped right there with tolerance and diversity	[04:32]
ag3nt_zer0	I think Mark Steyn said multiculturalism is a unicultural phenomena	[04:35]
ag3nt_zer0	mircea_popescu: if that was for me, I haven't seen l'aile ou la cuisse	[04:36]
trinque	whatever one can say about multiculturalism, it's not going to come from any observation of the modern usa	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	so maybe check it out. it's the same discussion, except carried out in the 70s	[04:37]
ag3nt_zer0	what about Sharia law in London?	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	what about it ?	[04:38]
ag3nt_zer0	I mean I like the mexicans tacos for sure but the culture doesnt respect education in the same way... so there is a clash there	[04:39]
trinque	the education problem isn't their culture, it's the school's culture	[04:39]
ag3nt_zer0	and the way it is dealt with in the west these days seems to just LCD everything	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	the who to the what now ?	[04:39]
ag3nt_zer0	ok. does not Sharia Law conflict in a number of ways with the western "liberty traditon"?	[04:40]
mircea_popescu	i dunno. like which ways ?	[04:41]
ag3nt_zer0	well for instance what's the left gonna do when the gays have issues with the muslims?	[04:41]
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mircea_popescu	this you gotta ask the left :)	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	but from the little i cared to read, it'd seem to me "sharia law" applies in london within sharia laws communities, which is not actually relevant to you.	[04:43]
ag3nt_zer0	trinque: I don't think thats the reason... Intelligence and motivation are greater than facilities and even teachers	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	what about "amish law" and whatever./	[04:43]
ag3nt_zer0	check US Ed Reform black hole for supporting statistics	[04:43]
trinque	ag3nt_zer0: my comment was about why you have to care whether they "respect education"	[04:43]
trinque	if so why are they in school	[04:43]
trinque	once they're there, how do you expect to fix it?	[04:44]
trinque	as for the sharia thing, they play that a lot in the "right" leaning news here	[04:44]
trinque	that europe is falling to teh muslims	[04:44]
trinque	probably about like maryland is falling to the blacks	[04:44]
ag3nt_zer0	mircea_popescu: I don't know what about Amish Law.	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	but there's this community of weirdos doing things like forcing kids to go without electricity.	[04:45]
ag3nt_zer0	I see multiculturalism as about as well-intentioned as the food court in the mall	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	not to even go into the no-transfusion groups or whatnot.	[04:46]
ag3nt_zer0	hmmm	[04:46]
ag3nt_zer0	well I dont mind that	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	bully for you	[04:46]
cazalla	the no transfusion thing is bullshit .. i grew up with that and when push comes to shove, most opt to take blood	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	so what's this, we're gonna tailor the shoulds and should nots by what you mind ?	[04:46]
ag3nt_zer0	haha no	[04:46]
ag3nt_zer0	I dont see the connection	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	some people keep the kids in blessed underwear ; some people keep the kids without ipads ; some other people keep the kids in burkas	[04:47]
ag3nt_zer0	Have you seen detroit?	[04:47]
trinque	yes but I don't like the burkas	[04:47]
mircea_popescu	what exactly is your choice paradigm to distinguish between these, and why exactly is it that the utah mormons don't bother you but the london muslims do.	[04:47]
trinque	that totalitarian thought gets buried deep.	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	to not even go into the chinatowns. those people put VINEGAR into their COOKED food, and sugar in things which are not desert.	[04:48]
ag3nt_zer0	because the utah mormans are still under the umbrella of western aeonic development	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	this, in romania, is excomunication.	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	ahahaha wut.	[04:48]
*	assbot gives voice to chetty	[04:48]
chetty	the difference is the mormons dont try to insist everyone should wear their underwear, the muslims get pretty insistant about burkas	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	o really ?	[04:50]
ag3nt_zer0	different peoples just have different ways of doing things... this also means that they have different ways of doing civilization... so that maybe one group can't take the reigns from another without significant hardship and the potential high risk for failure and disaster	[04:50]
ag3nt_zer0	see detroit maybe	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	i take it you've never had jehovites at the door chetty ?	[04:50]
ag3nt_zer0	sure i have	[04:50]
chetty	well none of them ever tried to behead me for not listening	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	ag3nt_zer0 yeah well if the brits weren't some unvigorous waster cunts, mayb the muslims wouldn't HAVE TO take their country from them	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	how about that.	[04:51]
trinque	chetty: sounds like a defense problem	[04:51]
trinque	technology should solve that one	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	chetty as proven by what, that you still have your head ? maybe they tried but ineptly, like anything else they do	[04:51]
chetty	hahahaha	[04:51]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:51]
ag3nt_zer0	mircea_popescu: how bout it. might be somethin to that	[04:52]
trinque	they did after all blow up that building that time	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	i dunno that muslims pester non muslim women to wear burkas. not anymore than catholics pester non catholic women about how to raise the children	[04:52]
trinque	and some other ones	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	but i did find out with dismay that the fucktarded usians convicted some dude to hard prison for fucking his partner on some beach	[04:53]
trinque	"florida man"	[04:53]
mircea_popescu	which to me personally is about as offensive as anything the mulsims do in their god forsaken desert shithole.	[04:53]
ag3nt_zer0	"partner" haha	[04:53]
chetty	well if the news can be believed they are killing a lot of christians in the ME for not converting ...	[04:53]
trinque	it's really sad. reported as a pair of perverts because gasp, a 4 year old saw	[04:53]
mircea_popescu	what, like the us is killing a buncha ukrainians for same ?	[04:54]
mircea_popescu	war is war. tana-nanana	[04:54]
ag3nt_zer0	oh thats bad	[04:54]
mircea_popescu	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGikhmjTSZI	[04:54]
assbot	Live is Life - Opus - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fEHOIO )	[04:54]
ag3nt_zer0	let's talk about this again in 20 years!	[04:55]
chetty	MP just might feel a little different if he were female	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	well you'd feel a lot different if you were a lobster	[04:55]
ag3nt_zer0	I, for one, can't wait for the premiere of I am Cait!	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	cuz iirc they don't eat lobster.	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	or wait, that's the jess	[04:56]
mircea_popescu	jews*	[04:56]
cazalla	ag3nt_zer0, are ya gonna gather the family round and watch together?	[04:57]
ag3nt_zer0	given that the suicide rate is like 10 times higher if you are by "nature" transgender, I have this sick thought that it would be epic if I am Cait ended with a self inflicted shotgun blast to the head...	[04:57]
trinque	so this guy cut his dick off to land a TV series?	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	what's this thing anyway ?	[04:58]
ag3nt_zer0	cazalla: yes	[04:58]
ag3nt_zer0	Bruce Jender	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	anyway, there's a very readily obvious and openly available method to not have to suffer the indignities of the defeated.	[05:00]
mircea_popescu	don't fucking lose.	[05:00]
ag3nt_zer0	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR4MvD9IEAE	[05:01]
assbot	The European Grammar of Self-Intolerance [Jonathan Bowden] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1fEIxcW )	[05:01]
cazalla	ag3nt_zer0, the white guilt shit in that video, i don't really understand or grasp why people suffer from that	[05:06]
trinque	http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/14/us-iran-nuclear-idUSKCN0PM0CE20150714	[05:06]
assbot	Iran, big powers clinch landmark nuclear deal	[05:06]
trinque	so how long before saudi asks pakistan for one of its preordered nukes?	[05:06]
trinque	cazalla: me either	[05:07]
ag3nt_zer0	well, ... the video is 12 minutes long and i posted it 6 minutes ago... maybe at least give the whole thought a listen	[05:08]
cazalla	ya, only 4m in	[05:08]
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ag3nt_zer0	fwiw, I sat through college lectures on "micro-aggressions" where the big bad white man just sat there and took it that he was the bad guy	[05:09]
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trinque	I'm still listening to it	[05:09]
ag3nt_zer0	that's the guilt	[05:09]
ag3nt_zer0	or the cowardice	[05:10]
ag3nt_zer0	whatever	[05:10]
trinque	yeah, american college is terrible	[05:10]
trinque	I was paid to go and still left	[05:10]
punkman	"“We’re dealing with basically tourists,” Dafonseca said. “They’re here on the beaches of Manatee County, our public beaches. So you want to make sure that this isn’t something that just goes by the wayside. And that it is well known to the community what will be tolerated and what won’t be.”"	[05:10]
punkman	ahaha	[05:10]
trinque	ag3nt_zer0: what guilt? the class is on teaching you that you're guilty.	[05:10]
trinque	so tell them to fuck themselves?	[05:10]
ag3nt_zer0	yeah maybe	[05:10]
ag3nt_zer0	but when you put in 7 years	[05:10]
ag3nt_zer0	most arent willing to do that	[05:11]
ag3nt_zer0	I did.	[05:11]
trinque	too bad for 'em	[05:11]
ag3nt_zer0	but I was alone	[05:11]
ag3nt_zer0	they were all busy loving	[05:11]
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ag3nt_zer0	or chasing that psper	[05:11]
ag3nt_zer0	I was terrified while I was doing it man... they held the power	[05:11]
ag3nt_zer0	and I did it for stupid idealistic shit	[05:12]
trinque	I'm just a bag of mineral water walking around, man	[05:12]
trinque	fuck a national or cultural identity	[05:12]
mircea_popescu	haha mineral water srsly.	[05:12]
ag3nt_zer0	like "if I dont stand up now, I cant tell studetns to later"	[05:12]
ag3nt_zer0	haha... fortunately it worked out	[05:12]
trinque	this guy said hegemonic	[05:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77500 @ 0.00056235 = 43.5821 BTC [+] {2}	[05:13]
trinque	yeah man, he's just giving people excuses for being confused about who they are	[05:14]
trinque	maybe it is harder in the shit ocean, but sucks for them	[05:14]
ag3nt_zer0	Oh I love Bowden man	[05:14]
trinque	otherwise what, a better church?	[05:14]
trinque	or a mother-state?	[05:14]
ag3nt_zer0	it's like medicine for california disease	[05:14]
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trinque	I am always suspicious of a person giving someone a very serious sounding description of an abstract mental dysfunction they have.	[05:16]
trinque	apply that to whatever you like	[05:16]
trinque	church, public school bureaucrats, so on	[05:16]
cazalla	ag3nt_zer0, i never finished school but by paying to attend these places of higher education, you are buying what they're selling whether it be white guilt or what not.. i ran into this type of shit in different jobs but i always just refused to go along with it and they were always stumped as what to do next	[05:16]
trinque	both for the obvious reason and because for the person hearing it, it sounds like a damned fancy excuse to not put themselves together	[05:16]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46800 @ 0.00056159 = 26.2824 BTC [-]	[05:18]
cazalla	in the mid 90s students were asked to sign a "sorry book" apologising to the australian aboriginies.. i just refused to sign it and that was that, if the other students had simply done the same, it would not have gained any traction, there was no consequence for not signing the stupid fucking book	[05:18]
punkman	"Jose Caballero, 40, was sentenced to two-and-a-half years in prison today for an X-rated beach frolic he had with Elissa Alvarez, 21, last July. Both Caballero and Alvarez will both have to register as sex offenders for their mischief, which involved copulating on a crowded beach, in the middle of the day, in front of a four-year-old."	[05:18]
trinque	lol! sorry book!	[05:18]
punkman	only 2.5 years	[05:18]
trinque	cazalla: that's hilarious	[05:18]
trinque	we're just supposed to look sadly at the page of the book on the trail of tears for a few minutes, then move on	[05:18]
cazalla	but these fucking drones just signed it and passed it to the next person, i never really understood that	[05:19]
punkman	sorry book indeed	[05:19]
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ag3nt_zer0	trinque: fuck a national or cultural identity - i used to feel that way... but I always felt like you can go the other way too... thinking that things matter. So, it's from there that I would ask are a culture and, much later, a nation, originally expressions of individual races?	[05:19]
cazalla	but anyway.. what is that saying.. a nation can survive anything but treachery from within.. mircea_popescu is right that if you don't want to suffer this, don't be on the losing team.. if muslims ride into battle and rape and kill all the english (or australians) than i guess so be it, only thing i despite more than the muslims are the limp wristed whites	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	it'll do them a lot of good	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	the people born of that will not suck so much	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	punkman and she's pretty, too.	[05:22]
trinque	she got less time, maybe because of that?	[05:22]
trinque	or maybe she turned on him and signed the "yes we actually fucked" papers	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	cazalla so people wanna play this kink for a while, big whoop.	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	trinque or maybe they just dunno wtf they're doing, spinning the wheel of morality over there	[05:23]
ag3nt_zer0	trinque: I still feel that way btw... I just oscillate in efforts to destroy what I thought earlier	[05:23]
trinque	who trusted us with a country	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	"in front of a four year old" wtf is the snotty shit, a judge now ?	[05:24]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20943 @ 0.00056159 = 11.7614 BTC [-]	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	nothing can happen "in front of a four year old". because no four year old is the fucking axis of thew world already	[05:24]
punkman	trinque: she got no time	[05:25]
trinque	lol!	[05:25]
trinque	well good, it's only penises that are illegal anyway	[05:25]
ag3nt_zer0	cazalla: yes I bought what they sold and willingly... and I am that now	[05:26]
punkman	http://fusion.net/story/136443/this-rapper-shot-a-police-officer-will-stand-your-ground-set-him-free/	[05:26]
assbot	This rapper shot a police officer. Will 'Stand Your Ground' set him free? \| Fusion ... ( http://bit.ly/1fEKWEt )	[05:26]
BingoBoingo	What's the weirdest node useragent everyone is connected to right now. I'm apparently peering with: "subver" : "/Satoshi:0.11.99/Gangnam Style:v1.00XL",	[05:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144500 @ 0.0005588 = 80.7466 BTC [-] {2}	[05:32]
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*	diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:32]
cazalla	what is the command BingoBoingo	[05:33]
BingoBoingo	cazalla: Depends on your version. In 0.7 getpeerinfo was introduced	[05:33]
BingoBoingo	Otherwise I guess you gotta check the logs	[05:33]
cazalla	"subver" : "/btcwire:0.2.0/", have not seen this one before	[05:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.0005575 = 39.4153 BTC [-]	[05:35]
cazalla	meh nothing interesting, only 30 odd connections.. was over 100 for a few weeks but dropped off for some reason	[05:36]
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*	Itile (5f257020@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.37.112.32) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:43]
punkman	(´°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥ω°̥̥̥̥̥̥̥̥｀)	[05:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49209 @ 0.00056288 = 27.6988 BTC [+]	[05:45]
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mircea_popescu	!up Itile	[05:46]
-assbot-	You voiced Itile for 30 minutes.	[05:46]
*	assbot gives voice to Itile	[05:46]
Itile	Hi all. When bet 1158 will be payed, who know?	[05:48]
cazalla	Itile, you win that one too eh?	[05:49]
mircea_popescu	tonight prolly.	[05:50]
cazalla	i believe bets are paid 2 days from resolved now	[05:50]
Itile	3 days 7 hours	[05:50]
*	mircea_popescu blames bitcoin.	[05:51]
cazalla	poor Itile, waiting like patience on a monument over here	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	guy got a point.	[05:52]
Itile	What is maximum of delaying in days? Faq not answer this.	[05:52]
cazalla	eh i'm waiting too, i could bitch that kakobrekla should pay as fast as he collects but who'd listen, i'm sure it'll be paid	[05:52]
*	cazalla drinking... drought has ended, whiskey rains from the sky	[05:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97550 @ 0.00056311 = 54.9314 BTC [+] {3}	[05:53]
punkman	how long did ya hold out cazalla	[05:53]
mircea_popescu	Itile you mean maximum so far ? i dunno, something like a week on contentious bets iirc.	[05:53]
cazalla	punkman, about 6 weeks.. not drinking sorta reminded me of why i drank in the first place	[05:54]
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BingoBoingo	Ah, an empty block 365248 https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000001231d5e7302cbb649f6e6e7aa2abe280b441a07da2229bed	[05:55]
assbot	Bitcoin Block #365248 ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiNNaZ )	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	why was that ?	[05:55]
*	HeySteve (~Lizard__W@unaffiliated/heysteve) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:56]
cazalla	mircea_popescu, me?	[05:56]
mircea_popescu	ya	[05:56]
cazalla	meh i dunno, it's a good friend in that you don't see it for a while but you just pick up where you left off	[05:58]
cazalla	can't say that about many other people in my life	[05:58]
BingoBoingo	So, asciilifeform's node is connected to blockchain.info https://blockchain.info/ip-address/195.211.154.159	[05:59]
assbot	Transactions Relayed By 195.211.154.159 - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiO91j )	[05:59]
BingoBoingo	cazalla: You had a good run	[06:00]
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Itile	Bet 1090 was resolved 30-06, but payed 11-07. Why so long period? 11 days!	[06:01]
BingoBoingo	Very contentious stuff that bat	[06:02]
cazalla	BingoBoingo, yeah longer than i thought i'd last.. i'll enjoy this bottle and then take another break i think	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	Itile a contentious bet can linger forever.	[06:04]
punkman	was USMS the longest bet?	[06:08]
mircea_popescu	possibru	[06:09]
mircea_popescu	bfl was also open for a while	[06:09]
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*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[15:51]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[15:51]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[15:51]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[15:51]
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*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[15:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 227100 @ 0.00055471 = 125.9746 BTC [+] {6}	[15:52]
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*	ChanServ gives voice to assbot	[15:54]
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kakobrekla	[20:38:58] http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000123.html	[15:55]
kakobrekla	[20:39:00] ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0h2XA )	[15:55]
kakobrekla	[20:39:14] why no title assbot	[15:55]
assbot	[BTC-dev] updated debug_sanity ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0jsWa )	[15:55]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1I0jrl2 )	[15:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9584 @ 0.00055851 = 5.3528 BTC [+]	[15:55]
punkman	kakobrekla: 10/10 customer support, would buy again	[15:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00055941 = 21.2016 BTC [+]	[16:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Jmf6Zy )	[16:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21263 @ 0.00055874 = 11.8805 BTC [-]	[16:08]
*	twixisowned (~skdsfhshf@67-6-184-177.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:08]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140800 @ 0.00056568 = 79.6477 BTC [+] {4}	[16:12]
*	ag3nt_zer0 (328f93cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.143.147.207) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200807 << myeah working on it.	[16:13]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 12:32:12; jurov: ;;isup qntra.net	[16:13]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200828 << i am never using cloudflare.	[16:14]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 14:43:36; fluffypony: why not just stick qntra / a mirror behind CloudFlare? it's a news site, it's not like the information is super sensitive	[16:14]
nubbins`	!up ascii_field	[16:14]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:14]
mircea_popescu	and the infortmation of WHO READS IT is not usg's business.	[16:14]
nubbins`	why not use windows for casual web browsing?	[16:14]
nubbins`	it's not like the etc etc	[16:14]
nubbins`	why not smash your dick with a hammer?	[16:14]
*	assbot gives voice to ag3nt_zer0	[16:14]
nubbins`	etc	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	"Please understand that you mentioned you accept "Bitcoin" as a method of payment. Some online payment companies are fairly new and inexperienced and they do not provide sufficient fraud protection to members. When we review payment methods to determine whether they are allowed on eBay, two key factors that we consider are "Security and Safety" and "Ease of use". Please do not offer this payment method."	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	fucktards.	[16:15]
*	twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	"ideology" ? yeah, that's right : usg's fucking ideology.	[16:15]
ascii_field	ferfuxxake, direct fiefdom of paypal	[16:16]
ascii_field	who exactly expected to be able to use btc there	[16:16]
ag3nt_zer0	good morning	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	dude, forget this expecting.	[16:16]
*	assbot gives voice to diametric	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	im not setting mental limits on the basis of implicit conventions.	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200835 << myeah.	[16:17]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 14:57:48; asciilifeform: pogo is going nowhere until we have a mempool limit mechanism.	[16:17]
fluffypony	mircea_popescu: I didn't mean indefinitely	[16:17]
fluffypony	I meant whilst this is going on	[16:17]
mircea_popescu	if i recall this was discussed, i was spouting things like "sort the tx pool by value per byte, kick out bad txn and nodes that propose them, always offer a buttered selection to askers"	[16:17]
ascii_field	no, i meant what i said and i said what i meant, walrus is certain one hundred percent (tm) (r)	[16:17]
ascii_field	gotta evict from cache or crash	[16:18]
ascii_field	unbounded data structure + finite ram == barf	[16:18]
ag3nt_zer0	the funnies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6nI1v7mwwA&feature=youtu.be	[16:19]
assbot	Philosophers Football - Monty Python's Fliegender Zirkus - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0n6ze )	[16:19]
ascii_field	we have two of these left: the block index (discussed previously, 300 byte per blk) and the mempool.	[16:19]
thestringpuller	ascii_field: you can set the policy to drop tx's without fees from the mempool i though	[16:20]
trinque	buhhh no search	[16:20]
*	trixisowned (~skdsfhshf@71-211-240-103.hlrn.qwest.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:20]
trinque	so suppose I dropped a link to last night's islam thread	[16:20]
ascii_field	thestringpuller: not the answer to 'potentially infinite liquid shit in a finite bag'	[16:21]
trinque	it's a problem solved by both the WoT and building cities according to a concept of "good standing == access" not universal access for all	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field i dun parse that, are you disagreeing or wut ?	[16:21]
trinque	cardano would be a nice device for this	[16:21]
trinque	you go up to some gate and do assbot-style authentication	[16:21]
trinque	and either enter or don't	[16:22]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: was trying to point out that we need a mechanism to manage mempool on the node. just simple oldest-evict for starters.	[16:22]
ascii_field	rather than 'oomkill because retarded'	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	if we're going to do this, which is nonstandard, a) better make it good.	[16:22]
ascii_field	like i said for the orphans,	[16:22]
ascii_field	IT ALREADY DIES	[16:22]
mircea_popescu	there is no benefit to half-solving the problem.	[16:22]
ascii_field	already has the limit	[16:22]
ascii_field	sheer physical limit.	[16:22]
ascii_field	so where is this 'nonstandard.' ~ANY~ machine has finite ram, it is entirely standard.	[16:23]
thestringpuller	would this be first in first out type of mechanism?	[16:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41922 @ 0.00055874 = 23.4235 BTC [-]	[16:23]
thestringpuller	oldest tx's get evicted first for newer tx's received?	[16:24]
ascii_field	for starters.	[16:24]
ascii_field	this is closest to the default behavior (death of whole node)	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	so, how about, something like this : 1. pogo acquires max memory to be used for tx pool ; 2. pogo accepts txn into this until full ; 3. pogo calculates per byte value for eacxh accepted txn ; 4. pogo accepts new txn only if their per-byte value constitutes an increase to its pool ; 5. pogo keeps a score on all nodes ir EVER SAW, by IP! as to what txn it sent : -so much for sending unacceptable txn, + so much for sendin	[16:24]
mircea_popescu	g accepted txn. then it refuses connectioon to shit nodes. permanently. it still reads from them, but sends nothing.	[16:24]
ascii_field	did mircea_popescu just ask for a <=4GB db ?	[16:24]
*	joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	this way, our nonstandard behaviour can at least be excused, nodes will continue to peer us for economic reasons, and your dream fo someday someone mining off a pogo may come closer.	[16:25]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_field nothing wrong with keeping a finite ip db and flushing the lowest entries as needed, just like iptables works.	[16:25]
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mircea_popescu	ideally the -so much, +so much and min_node_value are to be set in config file by user.	[16:27]
ascii_field	this is not a bad scheme, but - complicated	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	not worth doing the other one. you'll just end up isolated on the network.	[16:27]
ascii_field	'why not start small, he said, offering the yoga n00b a single nail'	[16:27]
ascii_field	no more isolated than if you do nothing	[16:28]
ascii_field	and crash	[16:28]
*	mircea_popescu , master of bitesizes.	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	yes. that's isolated.	[16:28]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: briefly describe hypothesis re: why an evict-oldest mempool node would end up isolated	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	because you present an arbitrary fraction of the current mempool, there is no incentive for anyone to peer you.	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	you may either present : a) the whole mempool (current best behaviour) or b) a selected fraction (hopefully future best behaviour)	[16:30]
ascii_field	this is different from 'isolated.' isolated would mean that extant nodes auto-drop you	[16:30]
ascii_field	'no incentive' for most of the network participants to do what they are doing - is the current situation.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	i didn't mean that isolated. i just meant, "and it never amounted to anything" isolated	[16:30]
ascii_field	ok	[16:30]
ascii_field	then - yes	[16:31]
*	ascii_field hopes that no one is waiting for ~him~ to write this, is occupied with other things presently	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200847 << this is actually not bad an idea	[16:32]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 15:08:39; jurov: dm-cache using 8 GB SSD would be worth trying, i will when pogos come	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200869 << eh stfu.	[16:34]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 15:40:48; funkenstein_: for broadcasting a TX today i would recommend blockchain.info, coinb.in.. there are a few others that will get your tx to miners	[16:34]
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mircea_popescu	ascii_field yes, complicated, especially due to txn chains.	[16:35]
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ascii_field	possibly the most dangerous change yet proposed	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	but it is i think the first chance to actually improve on extant code by writing something since the start of this project. rather than just cutting warts off and sewing the crater together	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[16:35]
ascii_field	i dare say the second	[16:35]
ascii_field	parallel verif. - also useful	[16:35]
ascii_field	(and approximately same complexity)	[16:36]
nubbins`	<+ascii_field> who exactly expected to be able to use btc there <<< once listed a casascius coin on ebay. a buyer messaged me through the site asking to pay in btc :o	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	ah right	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	o look who's back. when did you get out nubbins` ?	[16:36]
ascii_field	nubbins`: as i understand, buyer can contact you and ask to pay in cocaine	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field his point was "who expects". apparently, buyer.	[16:36]
ascii_field	but if you accept anything but paypal - can be thrown out of 'ebay'	[16:36]
ascii_field	aha	[16:37]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201203 << consider posting some pseudocode for this, if you have a notion of how it oughta work	[16:41]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 19:31:33; mircea_popescu: ascii_field yes, complicated, especially due to txn chains.	[16:41]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: why would the network isolate you if you're dropping tx's out of the mempool?	[16:41]
thestringpuller	it seems this is broken, if tx's oom a nodes' mempool wouldn't this technically be a fraction of the mempool shared by other nodes with more memory?	[16:42]
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thestringpuller	this being the default functionality	[16:42]
ascii_field	precisely what i said.	[16:42]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200905 << you can't, and fuck your stupid mother for fucking the lousy drunk that would spring forth an attempted abortion such as yourself for EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT.	[16:43]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 16:35:26; fromphuctor: hello, how can I get my information removed from nosuchlabs.com?	[16:43]
ascii_field	thestringpuller: but it is also true that most nodes presently have sufficient physical ram to hold the mempool	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller the notion that bitcoin is open "to everyone" does not include fromfuctorhead above.	[16:43]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin is open for everyone who can keep the whole thing. the whole blockchain, the whole mempool, etc.	[16:44]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[16:44]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[16:44]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[16:44]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[16:44]
*	julmac (~harric@q186.ip4.netikka.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43400 @ 0.00056844 = 24.6703 BTC [+] {2}	[16:48]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200957 << o motherfucker will there be no end of this idiocy	[16:48]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 16:58:35; fromphuctor: im pretty sure there's laws in place that give me the right to have that info removed	[16:48]
chanserv	OP #bitcoin-assets	[16:48]
*	ChanServ gives channel operator status to mircea_popescu	[16:48]
ben_vulpes	phrance!	[16:49]
*	mircea_popescu sets ban on !1824f991@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.36.249.145	[16:49]
*	mircea_popescu has kicked fromphuctor from #bitcoin-assets (fromphuctor)	[16:49]
ben_vulpes	whoa mp's getting out the banhammer	[16:49]
*	mircea_popescu removes channel operator status from mircea_popescu	[16:49]
mircea_popescu	no dude, "the consumers have come to expect". pssshhh	[16:50]
trinque	... and it's a beneficial service?!	[16:51]
trinque	for free!!	[16:51]
ascii_field	mircea_popescu: you know that's the shared arse for everyone who comes in from nosuchlabs.com, right ?	[16:51]
trinque	say "thank you"	[16:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86082 @ 0.00056869 = 48.954 BTC [+] {2}	[16:51]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field on the same ip.	[16:51]
ascii_field	ah	[16:51]
trinque	ascii_field: but he banned the specific mask for that user	[16:51]
nubbins`	<+mircea_popescu> o look who's back. when did you get out nubbins` ? <<< just coming up for air 8)	[16:51]
ascii_field	ah i c	[16:51]
ascii_field	l0lz	[16:51]
ascii_field	imho the fella was trolling	[16:52]
ascii_field	he didn't claim a name, or a key, much less a signature of one with the other	[16:52]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33529 @ 0.00056879 = 19.071 BTC [+]	[16:52]
nubbins`	<+ascii_field> nubbins`: as i understand, buyer can contact you and ask to pay in cocaine <<< i suggested to buyer we take tx off-site; he agreed. mildly surprised message filters or smth didn't get in the way	[16:52]
ascii_field	and readily admitted to having uploaded it himself, to sks	[16:52]
*	kyuupichan (~Neil@ae041057.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:52]
ascii_field	nubbins`: 'How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. but at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You have to live - did live, from habit that became instinct - in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard...'	[16:53]
ben_vulpes	trinque: the hsa company can't figure out their ssl cert	[16:53]
nubbins`	8)	[16:53]
ascii_field	(tm) (r)	[16:53]
nubbins`	and yet here we are	[16:53]
ben_vulpes	trinque: and emails passwords baaack to users in plaintext	[16:53]
ben_vulpes	WOO	[16:53]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes everyone emails passwords in plaintext. EVERYONE	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	it's fucking retarded.	[16:54]
*	williamdunne has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[16:54]
ben_vulpes	the stored password	[16:54]
ben_vulpes	the unsalted unhashed stored password	[16:54]
nubbins`	i used to work for big insurance co	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	well if you email it anyway... why bother with bcrypt ?	[16:54]
nubbins`	called helpdesk one day with an issue	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	cheaper to sniff mail than to break server.	[16:54]
nubbins`	they asked me for my password over the phone	[16:54]
nubbins`	"you want me to just say it?"	[16:55]
mircea_popescu	and it happened to be drop table if exist dash dash ?	[16:55]
trinque	ben_vulpes: lawl	[16:55]
nubbins`	"but i work in a cubicle"	[16:55]
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thestringpuller	;;isup qntra.net	[16:57]
gribble	qntra.net is down	[16:57]
thestringpuller	damn. down all day.	[16:57]
trinque	that idea of opening a gate with a cardano... really fun	[16:58]
trinque	I can't wait to hold one in my hands	[16:58]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[16:58]
ascii_field	waitwut	[16:59]
ascii_field	opening a gate ?	[16:59]
ascii_field	i can't wait to see all the nails folks try to pound in with this microscope.	[16:59]
trinque	ascii_field: was imagining a futuristic city with access controls based on WoT standing in response to chetty's comments about islam and violence	[16:59]
trinque	I've actually had a few dreams about such a place	[17:00]
thestringpuller	what if someone steals your cardano?	[17:00]
thestringpuller	lol	[17:00]
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trinque	thestringpuller: same answer as if someone steals your anything	[17:00]
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trinque	what's better, a retinal scan? lol	[17:00]
ascii_field	we had this thread	[17:01]
ascii_field	with mr ninjaspam	[17:01]
ascii_field	see logz.	[17:01]
trinque	ascii_field: which? stolen cardano?	[17:01]
ascii_field	aha	[17:01]
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trinque	seems you'd have some other key elsewhere, you'd sign your cardano key	[17:02]
trinque	and you could perhaps sign a "my cardano was stolen" message to address thestringpuller	[17:02]
ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201280 << this appears in, among other places, 'beneath a steel sky'.	[17:02]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 19:56:20; trinque: ascii_field: was imagining a futuristic city with access controls based on WoT standing in response to chetty's comments about islam and violence	[17:02]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field garage door!	[17:02]
trinque	ascii_field: neat	[17:02]
ascii_field	trinque: also not so easy. see the key revocation thread of last month.	[17:03]
trinque	k	[17:03]
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trinque	in this case presumably the city itself would be controlled by someone in particular	[17:04]
trinque	so it is a centralized problem	[17:04]
trinque	he grants you access or does not	[17:04]
ben_vulpes	zhe	[17:04]
trinque	so there is a central point which can reject the key in the future	[17:04]
trinque	ben_vulpes: the lesbian dreadfort notwithstanding	[17:05]
ascii_field	assbotburg	[17:05]
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ascii_field	perhaps folks who are '! downed' will slide, literally, down a chute.	[17:06]
mircea_popescu	cryptoguillotine ?	[17:06]
ascii_field	cryptodulap.	[17:06]
mircea_popescu	not sure i wanna see that.	[17:06]
nubbins`	cryptooubliette	[17:09]
nubbins`	hm. cryptoubliette?	[17:09]
ascii_field	we did that one here	[17:10]
ascii_field	'coke machine'	[17:10]
nubbins`	bbl	[17:12]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:14]
thestringpuller	#b-a labeled gasenwagens?	[17:15]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58000 @ 0.00057034 = 33.0797 BTC [+] {2}	[17:15]
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*	assbot gives voice to mats	[17:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120100 @ 0.00056091 = 67.3653 BTC [-] {2}	[17:22]
mod6	!up ascii_field	[17:23]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	gernika_ it's up and down as i have the 363736 issue examined.	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	by now a multitude of people have copies, of that chain.	[17:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25126 @ 0.00055874 = 14.0389 BTC [-]	[17:31]
*	gernika_ is now known as gernika	[17:34]
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mircea_popescu	relatedly : i am reasonably satisfied the ~950 kb single tx a few days ago was trying its best to make pre 0.10 clients unable to verify the chain anymore.	[17:35]
ascii_field	^ mechanism ?	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	it didn't actually work, obviously, but i must say without all the work the foundation put in, it probably WOULD have.	[17:35]
ascii_field	would love to read the logic behind this hypothesis	[17:35]
ascii_field	(i	[17:35]
ascii_field	've been looking myself, for this)	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field not fully understood yet, but it seems to exploit a buffer overflow in their own fucktarded code.	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	anyway, run your own .6 or .7 and see what happens.	[17:36]
ascii_field	i still have a 0.8, it runs	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	but i said 6 or 7	[17:36]
ascii_field	ah hm	[17:36]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo ^ ?	[17:36]
*	assbot gives voice to gernika	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't work ALL the time either	[17:37]
ascii_field	broomstick only needs to shoot once	[17:38]
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ascii_field	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201324 << waitasec, how's that work	[17:39]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 20:32:01; mircea_popescu: it didn't actually work, obviously, but i must say without all the work the foundation put in, it probably WOULD have.	[17:39]
ascii_field	afaik i'm the only one actually running a public-facing realbitcoinotron	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	the stator nodes don't suffer from it	[17:39]
ascii_field	ah	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	and no, i have nfi why	[17:40]
ascii_field	actually i think i do	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	hm ?	[17:40]
ascii_field	we cremate orphan tx. and the 'tx spam' is sent in rapid succession, and depends on previous instances of same, and hence spends much of its life cycle as 'orphan tx'	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	oh	[17:41]
ascii_field	aha.	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	yeah very probable.	[17:41]
*	ascii_field does these things for actual reasonz	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	yeah you know what, this work actually made a difference.	[17:42]
ascii_field	spiffy.	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	i have nfi where i'd be had b-a never happened and foundation never happened and etc, trying to make sense of this situation	[17:42]
ascii_field	probably somewhere deep in the 2012 shitter	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	as it is, i'll be moving infrastructure to strator.	[17:42]
*	ascii_field will enjoy reading mircea_popescu's old node if he ever gets tired of it and prints it	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	towards i guess, is the better word	[17:43]
mircea_popescu	neway, needless to say, i'm actually impressed. for once world of shit averted.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	had no particular expectation to see anything like this yet, either.	[17:44]
ascii_field	how, i must say i wonder, did mircea_popescu even persuade anyone to shovel the sheer tonnage of shit to write his soviet pdp clone 0.6	[17:44]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113593 @ 0.00054082 = 61.4334 BTC [-] {2}	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	ascii_field it's complicated.	[17:44]
ascii_field	if it was written by a phriend, i would love to see him among our number here.	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	but the truth, in general, is that closed systems have a very short shelf life. you can get away with it for a matter of years, maybe, if you're very good at managing it. not decades.	[17:45]
gernika	<+mircea_popescu> by now a multitude of people have copies, of that chain. << got it. switched to another node and now syncing.	[17:45]
BingoBoingo	ascii_field: Takes about as much time as any other "problematic" block but gets chewed through just the same	[17:50]
ascii_field	BingoBoingo: 0.7 ?	[17:51]
mircea_popescu	what machine ? what's logs say ?	[17:51]
BingoBoingo	ascii_field: 0.7.2 Just renumbered it to advertise as 0.7.3.9	[17:52]
ascii_field	incidentally, there's never been a better time to open a zoo of these	[17:52]
ascii_field	all known versions, etc	[17:52]
mircea_popescu	hm. might be too late.	[17:52]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[17:52]
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mircea_popescu	very much so.	[17:53]
ascii_field	not too late, flood of crud still going strong.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	the "tx spam" bs never did anything.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	best i could tell anyway	[17:53]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_field	[17:53]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_field for 30 minutes.	[17:53]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[17:53]
ascii_field	it 'did' the 950+kB blox, what else	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	ah in that sense	[17:54]
ascii_field	aha.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	nah, that block was a single tx.	[17:54]
mircea_popescu	and it was not even relayed (as it's not in fact relayable)	[17:54]
ascii_field	the one moving to/from 6-char brainwallets	[17:54]
ascii_field	afaik it is part of the overall crap fleet.	[17:54]
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mircea_popescu	!up arhuaco	[17:55]
-assbot-	You voiced arhuaco for 30 minutes.	[17:55]
*	assbot gives voice to arhuaco	[17:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118000 @ 0.00054811 = 64.677 BTC [+]	[17:56]
BingoBoingo	Ah, looks like megatx never got here	[17:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 94426 @ 0.00053831 = 50.8305 BTC [-]	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	well that'd explain it.	[18:04]
thestringpuller	http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/win-win-blocksize/ << interesting haven't finished it tho	[18:04]
thestringpuller	but love the line "This compulsion means that, for the first time, the opinion of the ignorant masses (if misled, or merely divided) can actually destroy Bitcoin."	[18:05]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1200342 << twas my assperience	[18:12]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 03:27:43; asciilifeform: and stopped	[18:12]
ben_vulpes	phf: didja grunt out a script or something else i could try?	[18:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11323 @ 0.00053831 = 6.0953 BTC [-] {2}	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	http://36.media.tumblr.com/4f9a3353edb5edf22b8f889c0bc2486f/tumblr_n2apt70IYI1tsigedo1_1280.jpg << here's the woman, and here's the tech. therefore, woman in tech.	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	any questions	[18:16]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SlHgDk )	[18:16]
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*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:23]
mod6	!up assbot	[18:25]
mod6	!up ascii_field	[18:25]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[18:25]
*	assbot removes voice from arhuaco	[18:25]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107850 @ 0.00053831 = 58.0567 BTC [-]	[18:31]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: don't you mean tech in women?	[18:31]
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ben_vulpes	thestringpuller: aka teledildonics?	[18:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160874 @ 0.00055702 = 89.61 BTC [+] {3}	[18:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146700 @ 0.00057024 = 83.6542 BTC [+] {4}	[18:47]
BingoBoingo	http://dpaste.com/39WJ5B5.txt	[18:52]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1f0YpFG )	[18:52]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36924 @ 0.00053974 = 19.9294 BTC [-]	[18:55]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_field	[18:56]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36787 @ 0.00055576 = 20.4447 BTC [+]	[19:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95431 @ 0.00055576 = 53.0367 BTC [+]	[19:17]
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Adlai	straw poll here, please	[19:19]
Adlai	who's ever had somebody try to sell them bitcoins unsolicited?	[19:19]
fluffypony	everyone	[19:19]
asciilifeform	!up ascii_field	[19:19]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_field	[19:19]
*	Adlai only lost that cherry tonight	[19:19]
ascii_field	Adlai: not me	[19:19]
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Adlai	aha	[19:19]
*	trinque raises hand	[19:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2000 @ 0.00111 = 2.22 BTC	[19:19]
trinque	then the guy tried to give me some oddly	[19:20]
mats	smells like a trap	[19:20]
trinque	a miniscule amount	[19:20]
*	Adlai is guessing that ascii_field steers clear of bitcoin "meetups", of all their shapes and forms	[19:20]
*	m4rCsi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[19:20]
trinque	mine was some scamzor from otc	[19:20]
Adlai	exactly. i ratted the guy out in front of the group, it was a little hilarious	[19:20]
Adlai	suddenly everybody tries to buy	[19:20]
*	ascii_field never went to anything even vaguely bitcoin-related in the flesh other than for mircea_popescu's c2 and c3	[19:20]
Adlai	HOW MUCH DID HE WANT etc	[19:20]
Adlai	ascii_field: bitcoin != Bitcoins	[19:21]
Adlai	shit	[19:21]
Adlai	but you get the idea	[19:21]
Adlai	one of those was a typo	[19:21]
ascii_field	not them, either	[19:21]
ascii_field	i live in wrong part of the world for this	[19:21]
Adlai	as though i'm in the right part!	[19:21]
Adlai	now it's my turn to 'lol'	[19:21]
ascii_field	although university of maryland did have buterin over as guest speaker, apparently, some months ago	[19:22]
ascii_field	i entirely missed this.	[19:22]
Adlai	one good thing did come of the meetup, my new Bitcoin Price Index is fees/coin	[19:22]
ascii_field	(they also had obama, no less than twice. also missed that. snore.)	[19:22]
Adlai	the question is... which percentile of "fees" is used in the calculation	[19:22]
Adlai	thus our answer is in fact just another question	[19:23]
mats	missed it? as in, you wanted to go?	[19:23]
ascii_field	no.	[19:23]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[19:23]
ascii_field	missed as in, was vaguely aware and didn't give a flying fuck	[19:24]
Adlai	please tell me it was the same event	[19:24]
ascii_field	dun think so	[19:24]
Adlai	last i heard, from the most reputable of reputables, obama was gunna "crush" bitcoin	[19:25]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[19:25]
Adlai	few days later, 300, 160, who knows what. here we are today.	[19:25]
*	Adlai goodnight	[19:25]
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*	ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[19:27]
pete_dushenski	the only thing obama is gonna crush are his video game enemies in 'easy' mode.	[19:28]
pete_dushenski	the dude couldn't even put boots on the ground in syria, as fucking if he could do better than gavin and hearn.	[19:29]
mats	hey, he armed ISIS. close enough to 'boots on the ground'.	[19:29]
pete_dushenski	he could -maybe- throw a wrench in some up and coming social media app. maybe..	[19:29]
pete_dushenski	mats lol. now helping the enemy win is a victory !	[19:30]
pete_dushenski	because hey, can't just be losing wars for two generations straight.	[19:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35231 @ 0.00054945 = 19.3577 BTC [-] {2}	[19:31]
pete_dushenski	gotta find victories wherever you can. and, hell, just create them ex nihilo everywhere else.	[19:31]
mats	well, they weren't the enemy at the time. just 'moderates' looking for cash and weapons to fight al-Assad	[19:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75769 @ 0.00054324 = 41.1608 BTC [-]	[19:32]
mats	circa 2011 iirc	[19:32]
pete_dushenski	maybe if obama promises to pay eternal tribute to the caliphate, isis won't wipe his face in his own vomit.	[19:32]
mats	hard to anticipate, they've gotta take baghdad first	[19:32]
pete_dushenski	mats sure, in dreamlandia where anyone can be allies with the devil and then turn their back on him whenever they feel like it with no repercussions.	[19:33]
mats	iran and the saudis are active in the region and may crush them yet	[19:33]
mats	out of sheer self-interest and to return the balance of power to as it was	[19:33]
pete_dushenski	saudis will fall to isis.	[19:33]
pete_dushenski	there's little doubt of that.	[19:33]
mats	i doubt it.	[19:34]
pete_dushenski	saudis are already teetering on the bring of self-immolation post-abdullah	[19:34]
pete_dushenski	brink*	[19:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48050 @ 0.00057093 = 27.4332 BTC [+]	[19:35]
pete_dushenski	i dun seriously think that the saudis are ruthless enough nor rich enough to win this contest	[19:35]
trinque	and ISIS is rich enough?	[19:35]
trinque	how many oil fields do they have now?	[19:35]
pete_dushenski	a couple anyways.	[19:36]
pete_dushenski	but isis has a sufficiently powerful 'why' that their soldiers are cheap and oh so very cut throat	[19:36]
trinque	this much is true, yet	[19:36]
*	trinque checks over his shoulder	[19:37]
pete_dushenski	saudis don't stand for jack shit	[19:37]
trinque	no isis yet boss	[19:37]
trinque	just a lovely landscape	[19:37]
trinque	among other things I think whatever successes ISIS has had reflect that nobody really wants to have Iraq or Syria be their problem	[19:37]
pete_dushenski	and why should the middle east be anyone's problem other than that of the middle easterners ?	[19:38]
trinque	I am talking about middle eastern powers	[19:38]
trinque	I am not a scholar on the subject, but it seems as an outsider that the major factors are Saudi, Iran and Israel	[19:39]
trinque	those seem to be perpetually beating war drums against eachother; perhaps ISIS is a complicating factor in that situation which none want to approach lest they unbalance the former	[19:39]
decimation	saudis are not ruthless enough < I strongly doubt. Saudis would throw every merc in the world at someone challenging their rule	[19:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54050 @ 0.00057227 = 30.9312 BTC [+] {2}	[19:40]
decimation	also they would very likely summon usg	[19:40]
pete_dushenski	trinque those 3, yes, plus usa currently holding down the eastern corners of the mediterranean with turkey and egypt	[19:40]
pete_dushenski	decimation again, only if they can afford it	[19:40]
pete_dushenski	it's incredibly, almost impossibly expensive to fight against an opponent as ideologically driven as isis (or b, tmsr~)	[19:41]
decimation	if there's a threat to saudi rule - it's their own stomachs: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/07/saudis-solar-energy/395315/	[19:41]
assbot	Why the Saudis Are Going Solar - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1TBbTaz )	[19:41]
decimation	pete_dushenski: not really, it's quite simple, they would fall to a single marine division if on the field in open battle	[19:42]
decimation	however, trying to dislodge them in an occupation war is another matter	[19:42]
trinque	right	[19:42]
pete_dushenski	aha, again, the expense of occupation of syria/lebanon is more than any soi-dissant 'world power' can seem to muster.	[19:43]
decimation	yes, agreed	[19:43]
decimation	mainly because nobody can convince themselves to give enough of a shit	[19:43]
pete_dushenski	so battles can be won against isis, wars will be lost.	[19:43]
trinque	it's reasonable to say that the appetite for total war in the west... ^	[19:43]
trinque	right	[19:43]
decimation	yes, isis is much too young to expand beyond iraq/syria	[19:44]
decimation	in 30 years after their rule is solidified...	[19:44]
trinque	if what's said about their regressiveness regarding science is true, they're not going to amount to anything	[19:44]
pete_dushenski	it won't take a generation if the saudi's run out of oil money	[19:44]
decimation	aye, true	[19:45]
trinque	they're going to what, shout about allah and shoot hand-me-down russian weapons?	[19:45]
trinque	and the force of their will alone will overcome?	[19:45]
trinque	I don't buy it at all	[19:45]
pete_dushenski	trinque well, the west's 'science' is a largely (if not entirely) a lot of fluff 'epidemiology'	[19:45]
trinque	they're a nuisance and if they become anything more they'll all be killed	[19:45]
trinque	pete_dushenski: that has little to do with them ignoring the subject entirely	[19:46]
trinque	I bet central americans had a great deal of "will" too	[19:46]
pete_dushenski	i see them as being quite related, if throwing out the baby with the bathwater.	[19:46]
pete_dushenski	trinque sorry, you're saying that isis is a nuisance that'll be wiped out if they get too uppity ??	[19:47]
trinque	I am indeed.	[19:47]
decimation	it's political suicide in the us to commit to another full-scale middle east war, which is what is giving isis breathing room	[19:47]
pete_dushenski	hm. i don't underestimate them to the same degree.	[19:47]
trinque	pete_dushenski: I could very well see something 20 years down the line that's much different	[19:48]
trinque	but it would require them getting that far	[19:48]
pete_dushenski	isis will continue to grow, because that's what lifeforms do : they grow.	[19:48]
trinque	they also go extinct	[19:48]
pete_dushenski	so it'll start with syria/lebanon and keep going	[19:48]
trinque	one might speculate it will; we'll see	[19:48]
pete_dushenski	to saudi arabia, yemen, egypt, etc.	[19:48]
decimation	maybe, but if this happens it probably won't be through open battle	[19:49]
pete_dushenski	decimation i'm with you there.	[19:49]
pete_dushenski	if isis is undone, it'll be from 'multicultural' technology	[19:49]
pete_dushenski	from the inside out.	[19:49]
pete_dushenski	i don't see an external player that has the means or the will to take them down. they're no wimpy upstart. isis means business.	[19:50]
trinque	sure, and their ideology is based on magical thinking	[19:50]
pete_dushenski	as all populist ideologies must be.	[19:50]
pete_dushenski	hell, even the 'elite' ideologies can fall victim to dreams.	[19:51]
trinque	let me put it this way: if something doesn't come along that could squash an ISIS in a moment, that's on us.	[19:51]
trinque	they're primitive morons with weapons somebody else's war machine manufactured	[19:51]
trinque	sitting on oil wells they didn't drill	[19:52]
pete_dushenski	so what, bitcoin made the computers, chips, and internet infrastructure that it's taking over the world with ?	[19:52]
pete_dushenski	we're all sitting on 5-10 year old hardware. idjits would readily call this 'primitive'	[19:53]
trinque	I do not see the equivalence at all	[19:53]
pete_dushenski	what you want 'advanced' weapons like nukes ?	[19:53]
trinque	isis is a cargo cult thinking allah will bring them more russian or american weapons if they piss in the wind some more	[19:53]
trinque	they will never make anything themselves	[19:53]
decimation	tribalism is in the bones over there, I find it unlikely that a political entity could centralize power effectively	[19:54]
pete_dushenski	trinque the equivalence is in the disruptive potential	[19:54]
trinque	as for bitcoin, one would hope those working within it do understand the mechanics of the technology involved	[19:54]
trinque	pete_dushenski: of what	[19:54]
trinque	on ISIS' side	[19:54]
trinque	there's nothing novel or interesting about their ideology	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	the nation states of the middle east as we know/knew them.	[19:55]
trinque	mongols they are not	[19:55]
trinque	they're not going to build a working empire when they're done	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	doesn't appear to me that they're trying to build an 'empire' in the centralised sense of the term	[19:55]
pete_dushenski	decimation perhaps not. though if you spill enough blood...	[19:56]
phf	ben_vulpes: eventually, aha. i'm not even sure yet that i can repeat the process. for example part of build process is a script that chooses between gcc-4.6 and clang based on whether it's .c or .mm. the fact that the result links i think is a miracle	[19:56]
pete_dushenski	trinque i mean hey, if isis were going the centralised route, don't you think they'd have a king or ruler already ?	[19:57]
trinque	they've got that baghdadi guy	[19:57]
decimation	they do https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Bakr_al-Baghdadi	[19:57]
assbot	Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1TBdvRI )	[19:57]
trinque	and if they can't organize past that level, all the better	[19:57]
pete_dushenski	instead they have -dozens- of fiefdoms, all pledging allegiance to an ideology and a black flag	[19:57]
trinque	mongols had a khan	[19:58]
trinque	furthermore if all they can manage is guns and missiles, the non-morons that understand science can respond with defensive technology that makes that irrelevant	[19:59]
pete_dushenski	not necessarily	[19:59]
pete_dushenski	under your defensive technology is a satellite colony orbiting the earth	[19:59]
trinque	cities have defended themselves well against raiding hordes of morons before	[20:00]
pete_dushenski	ideologies will rip through the heart of whatever armour you've got.	[20:00]
trinque	we build them today like they're safe from all that	[20:00]
trinque	doesn't mean we have to	[20:00]
trinque	and theirs is what?	[20:00]
trinque	praise be to allah the space god and pass the ammunition?	[20:00]
trinque	come on	[20:00]
pete_dushenski	trinque pre-instant communication tech, sure.	[20:00]
pete_dushenski	protecting yourself used to be a physical issue.	[20:01]
trinque	and how is their ideology going to rip through my heart?	[20:01]
pete_dushenski	i'm not saying it will.	[20:02]
pete_dushenski	i'm saying that it's war.	[20:02]
trinque	ah well there we agree	[20:02]
pete_dushenski	only the losers get ripped.	[20:02]
trinque	I would just like to see bitcoin kill these morons too	[20:02]
trinque	2015 is no place for desert gods	[20:03]
trinque	(unless as I said, it's outside great cryptographic walls)	[20:03]
pete_dushenski	well, human brains are still human brains, i'm afraid	[20:03]
trinque	might very well be that something like ISIS will kill a great many "westerners" in the future	[20:04]
pete_dushenski	and it'll take more than a generation, or even a hundred, to change our defaults	[20:04]
trinque	and I could still imagine a world where I don't care	[20:04]
pete_dushenski	trinque for sure, because those 'westerners' are a bunch of blinded sheep who could use a good raping	[20:05]
trinque	I had this incredibly vivid dream years ago of a city which denied access based on some mechanism (undefined in the dream) of verifying identity and relationship to those dwelling within	[20:06]
trinque	walls and automated weapons prevented entry by unsanctioned means	[20:07]
trinque	entering the gate meant being approved to do so	[20:07]
trinque	ancient as it gets	[20:07]
trinque	this is what I would like to live within someday	[20:07]
pete_dushenski	like babylon eh	[20:07]
trinque	not something where every moron can piss on my front lawn	[20:07]
pete_dushenski	walls 30 stories tall	[20:07]
trinque	indeed	[20:07]
trinque	and if ISIS wants to keep the outsiders busy, have at it	[20:07]
pete_dushenski	well as long as you don't move the middle east, you can probably get by where you are, even without the ginormous walls.	[20:09]
pete_dushenski	it's one thing for isis to whip their compatriots into shape, it'd be an order of magnitude more resource intensive to bother with us.istan.	[20:10]
trinque	usistan may fall over on its own before they come of age	[20:10]
pete_dushenski	federal gov may 'fall over' but the only thing most people will notice is how much lighter the weight on their shoulders is	[20:11]
pete_dushenski	life will go on.	[20:11]
trinque	heh, true enough	[20:11]
pete_dushenski	mebbe chinese come in to rape the blondies and suck up the minerals, maybe they can't be bothered and they leave the peoples formerly known as 'americans' to reoganise themselves	[20:13]
pete_dushenski	that could be along existing state lines, or regions could be smaller or larger.	[20:13]
pete_dushenski	hard to say, really.	[20:13]
pete_dushenski	anyways, i'm off. don't be surprised if this convo makes it into a post :D	[20:19]
*	pete_dushenski has quit ()	[20:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162697 @ 0.00056912 = 92.5941 BTC [-] {4}	[20:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59332 @ 0.0005728 = 33.9854 BTC [+] {3}	[20:21]
trinque	;;later tell pete_dushenski I've enjoyed when they do.	[20:23]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[20:23]
BingoBoingo	https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=143645596526530&w=2	[20:24]
assbot	'BitCoin donations to the OpenBSD Foundation.' - MARC ... ( http://bit.ly/1TBgUQe )	[20:24]
trinque	so don't use bitpay, guy	[20:24]
trinque	"Sorry for any inconvenience, this is just how these things work." << lol	[20:25]
mircea_popescu	derp.	[20:29]
BingoBoingo	;;google site:trilema.com Bob Beck	[20:29]
gribble	The public burning of Bob Beck on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: ; The sharp friar and the golden jew discuss your options on Trilema ...: ; "I saw, and was saddened." on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.:	[20:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73869 @ 0.00057393 = 42.3956 BTC [+] {2}	[20:31]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[20:31]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)	[20:34]
mircea_popescu	they've decided they wanna hang out with wintel and the rest of the "good guys in their own mind" club	[20:53]
BingoBoingo	At least Bob Beck's financial crowd. Thing was saved by the forces of good, then the forces of Microshit came with ongoing whatever the fuck	[20:57]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[21:01]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 287.42, vol: 10360.89110159 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 283.2, vol: 7314.37326 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 287.21, vol: 23271.55971267 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 298.0, vol: 4.75786649 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 287.816427, vol: 16983.68120000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 288.70809, vol: 36.26405777 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 280.990219008, vol: 72.01758395 \| Volume-weighted last (1 more message)	[21:02]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[21:02]
gribble	average: 286.913709409	[21:02]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38353 @ 0.00057406 = 22.0169 BTC [+] {2}	[21:04]
*	deedbot- has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[21:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 205357 @ 0.00057561 = 118.2055 BTC [+] {3}	[21:10]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[21:16]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:20]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2147 @ 0.00111 = 2.3832 BTC	[21:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60043 @ 0.00057715 = 34.6538 BTC [+]	[21:23]
*	Duffer1 (~Duffer1@c-24-20-11-92.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:24]
BingoBoingo	!up Duffer1	[21:35]
*	assbot gives voice to Duffer1	[21:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10217 @ 0.00054324 = 5.5503 BTC [-]	[21:40]
BingoBoingo	https://imgur.com/W8l1edn	[21:46]
assbot	Sorry for potato quality - Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1HtiZZ3 )	[21:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70685 @ 0.00057736 = 40.8107 BTC [+] {3}	[21:46]
*	liquidassets (4b6f1ccf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.111.28.207) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:47]
BingoBoingo	https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/276763	[21:48]
assbot	Checking your bits ... ( http://bit.ly/1Htj9jc )	[21:48]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99314 @ 0.00054324 = 53.9513 BTC [-]	[21:51]
BingoBoingo	Even today, nasa with the JPEG plumes https://www.xkcd.com/	[21:53]
assbot	xkcd: Pluto ... ( http://bit.ly/1HtjCCa )	[21:53]
trinque	https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/sys/5083994161.html << I am considering grabbing this thing if it doesn't look too beat-up in person.	[21:55]
assbot	HP DL 585 Server ... ( http://bit.ly/1HtjOBa )	[21:56]
trinque	seems like a decent box for bitcoin dev and other projects	[21:56]
BingoBoingo	https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html	[21:56]
assbot	FreeBSD Code of Conduct ... ( http://bit.ly/1HtjUZu )	[21:56]
trinque	price is a little oddly low	[21:56]
BingoBoingo	trinque: Pull the trigger	[21:56]
trinque	waiting on the guy's response	[21:57]
BingoBoingo	24BG of RAM on an Opteron machine at that price, shit is better than Ebay	[21:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42921 @ 0.00053831 = 23.1048 BTC [-]	[21:59]
gernika	BingoBoingo I paid roughly 7x for a similar configuration (new)	[22:04]
*	assbot gives voice to liquidassets	[22:04]
BingoBoingo	I know that is a fucking steal.	[22:04]
*	assbot removes voice from Duffer1	[22:05]
cazalla	https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3dautm/content_policy_update_ama_thursday_july_16th_1pm/	[22:06]
assbot	Content Policy update. AMA Thursday, July 16th, 1pm pst. : announcements ... ( http://bit.ly/1HtkMgP )	[22:06]
cazalla	"Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech, but rather as a place where open and honest discussion can happen: These are very complicated issues, and we are putting a lot of thought into it." bit of a contradiction eh	[22:07]
trinque	eh, cowards	[22:09]
trinque	how's voat doing?	[22:09]
*	trinque checks	[22:09]
trinque	not too bad actually	[22:10]
BingoBoingo	Voat just has growing pains. The fat hate movement isn't the only thing carrying Voat anymore.	[22:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84048 @ 0.00054298 = 45.6364 BTC [+]	[22:15]
trinque	aw yeah, hp server guy replied	[22:19]
BingoBoingo	Sweet	[22:20]
*	nubbins` has quit (Quit: Quit)	[22:22]
trinque	claims it lived in a climate-controlled data center its whole life	[22:22]
trinque	probably true, given what it is	[22:22]
trinque	I wonder if a local tech company went under	[22:23]
*	menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:25]
BingoBoingo	Likely	[22:25]
asciilifeform	rip openbsd.	[22:26]
*	BingoBoingo contemplating blasphemy and getting a "late model" mac	[22:26]
*	asciilifeform would also say 'rip freebsd' but it died for him when it went with clang	[22:26]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo et al: that's approx. the correct price for a machine of that type and vintage, if one buys from a local scrap dealer	[22:27]
*	asciilifeform sometimes does	[22:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.000574 = 16.359 BTC [+]	[22:27]
asciilifeform	'server' mobos have an annoying habit of including 'remote management' crapolade, however. caveat emptor.	[22:28]
trinque	can I neuter that?	[22:28]
*	BingoBoingo getting tempted into a mac mini by cheap machine spacific colo offers	[22:28]
asciilifeform	best neuter is for it not to be there.	[22:28]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: worst possible choice. plenty of boxes with identical specs costing 50-60% of what crapple wants	[22:28]
asciilifeform	(specs including size and mass)	[22:28]
trinque	seems otherwise like a good snag of amd hardware	[22:29]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: probably physically smallest amd x86-64 is the 'pcengines' linked in earlier thread	[22:29]
asciilifeform	i have several, at $dayjob	[22:29]
asciilifeform	comes with schematics even.	[22:29]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Looking used. Trying to find hosts that take similar machines for colo at similar prices.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	it is about 7/8th inch tall.	[22:29]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: http://www.pcengines.ch/apu.htm << it	[22:30]
assbot	PC Engines apu system boards ... ( http://bit.ly/1HtmS06 )	[22:30]
asciilifeform	they also sell smaller x86 boards,	[22:30]
asciilifeform	(cpu soldered down on all of them)	[22:30]
BingoBoingo	I might start mailing some of these people about whenther they take machines smaller than mac mini at mac mini rate	[22:30]
asciilifeform	i esp. like the 100% open bios	[22:31]
asciilifeform	one of the few x86 boxes still manufactured, which supports this	[22:31]
asciilifeform	down sides include a total absence of video	[22:31]
asciilifeform	you will not be connecting a tele-kvm to this thing - unless your colo has the serial port kind	[22:31]
asciilifeform	also i'm not entirely certain why your colo box has to be an x86	[22:32]
asciilifeform	but as far as those go, this is probably the size/mass/cost champ	[22:32]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Well I'm looking at services like this http://macstadium.com/colo and a few other options that go down to $25-26, but so far this one has the least objectional terms	[22:33]
assbot	MacStadium - Dedicated Mac Mini Hosting, Colocation, and Cloud Solutions ... ( http://bit.ly/1Htn7Za )	[22:33]
asciilifeform	ugh	[22:35]
asciilifeform	betcha crapple subsidizes.	[22:35]
BingoBoingo	Would use to run many-connections bitcoin node plus services, and maybe a couple static html pages	[22:35]
BingoBoingo	Eh, they let you supply own box.	[22:36]
BingoBoingo	May try shoving pc engines in mac mini chassis	[22:36]
asciilifeform	they let you supply own, but probably has to be the apple	[22:37]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: if you do the switcheroo, make sure thing has ethernet mac addr from the old unit	[22:37]
asciilifeform	or rather, an addr in apple's registered range	[22:37]
asciilifeform	(hope to not get lucky & get existing)	[22:37]
BingoBoingo	Seems a sensible precaution.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	not sure where you'd get a mobo that fits in the original case without looking odd	[22:38]
asciilifeform	(the jacks have to line up with the holes, no?)	[22:38]
BingoBoingo	Generally been pricing 2011 and earlier minis (including G4 models)	[22:38]
asciilifeform	ugh	[22:38]
BingoBoingo	(the jacks have to line up with the holes, no?) Only eth0 jack matters... Arts&Crafts	[22:38]
asciilifeform	can get hosting on an old p3 (equiv. of fastest g4) for less than the quoted price	[22:39]
asciilifeform	with hoster-supplied box, too	[22:39]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: eth0, dc in, usb for the telekvm...	[22:39]
BingoBoingo	If configured at home is kvm even necessary?	[22:39]
asciilifeform	perhaps not	[22:40]
BingoBoingo	Most of these services seem to have a daily charge for troubleshooting with their KVM adapters	[22:40]
asciilifeform	whole thing sounds scammy	[22:40]
asciilifeform	why colo host, to begin with ?	[22:41]
BingoBoingo	It does.	[22:41]
asciilifeform	i can think of a few cases where it makes sense, but is this one ?	[22:41]
BingoBoingo	Colo host to get box out of house so I don't have to see macbomination	[22:41]
asciilifeform	don't have to see it if you don't buy one, l0l	[22:41]
BingoBoingo	Also configure at home seems like a nice alternative to cpanel dedibortion or vps.	[22:42]
asciilifeform	that, it does	[22:42]
BingoBoingo	Want machine to live in datacenter, not eating home bandwidth. getting maximal bitcoind connections at min dollars	[22:42]
*	asciilifeform lulz at the memory of how never saw 'cpanel' anywhere until mircea_popescu's	[22:43]
BingoBoingo	lol	[22:43]
BingoBoingo	Saw at Godaddy in the past... Apparently powers their shared hosting	[22:43]
trinque	we (which is to say they) used it at an old shitty php job	[22:44]
trinque	specifically whm I guess	[22:44]
trinque	that was a lulzy job; worked on software for those ebay pawn shops	[22:45]
*	BingoBoingo was planning if acquired mac mini to install max ram, max sub $200 SSD, OpenBSD 5.6, Set up SSH keys, bitcoind sync, and ship	[22:47]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201562 << those folks have 'ideology' like a forest fire does.	[22:47]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 22:54:23; pete_dushenski: instead they have -dozens- of fiefdoms, all pledging allegiance to an ideology and a black flag	[22:47]
asciilifeform	i suppose 'combustible things must combust' is ideology then.	[22:47]
mod6	BingoBoingo: i was kinda thinkin the same thing, could be a market for someone to just ship a drive ready to go.	[22:48]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201563 << mongols were able to produce the state-of-art weapons of their time (at their prime, that is), on their own.	[22:48]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 22:54:38; trinque: mongols had a khan	[22:48]
trinque	state of the art fighting techniques too	[22:48]
trinque	and then held down a vast empire with a sane legal system and so on	[22:49]
trinque	these are a bunch of twitter-posting imbeciles with AKs	[22:49]
*	menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[22:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43546 @ 0.00055289 = 24.0761 BTC [-]	[22:50]
trinque	that's not really fair, they are also whatever's left of saddam's army	[22:50]
BingoBoingo	ISIS takes state of the art fighting weapons and USia spends Imperial treasure on F-35 redefining state of the art as shittier	[22:50]
asciilifeform	wake me up when the untermenschen can produce so much as one brass shell.	[22:51]
asciilifeform	on their own.	[22:51]
mats	plenty of war materiel and munitions for purchase	[22:52]
asciilifeform	mats: presently - for phree!	[22:53]
mats	no reason why they can't subsist on ru supply chain indefinitely	[22:53]
asciilifeform	while supplies last (tm)	[22:53]
asciilifeform	ru newz media are kinda lulzy in re: 'isis': invariably prefix with 'islamic army, the organization banned in our country, has...'	[22:54]
mats	NATO would also presumably be happy to sell their enemies ammo for the right price	[22:54]
mats	just, you know, not directly.	[22:54]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201615 << i'd like to know what he oughta use. to turn those coins into food, rent, mains power.	[22:54]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 23:21:27; trinque: so don't use bitpay, guy	[22:54]
asciilifeform	dealer in dark alley ?	[22:54]
mats	-otc?	[22:55]
asciilifeform	i mean, yes, bitpay is a usg op	[22:55]
asciilifeform	what otc.	[22:55]
asciilifeform	the one that's just about entirely dead, as far as my naked eye can see ?	[22:55]
danielpbarron	mats> NATO would also presumably be happy to sell their enemies ammo for the right price << reminds me of Milo from Catch-22	[22:57]
mats	;;book BTC	[22:57]
gribble	Error: Too many orders to list on IRC. Visit the web order book, http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?eitherthing=BTC to see list of orders for this item.	[22:57]
trinque	asciilifeform: could always accept them directly then turn into USD through the usual channels	[22:58]
trinque	or CAD or whatever they like best	[22:59]
mats	;;book USD	[22:59]
gribble	Error: Too many orders to list on IRC. Visit the web order book, http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?eitherthing=USD to see list of orders for this item.	[22:59]
mats	plenty of middlemen to be had for the right price as far as i can see	[22:59]
trinque	well I'm not sure, is there a sort of AML/KYC equivalent for donations?	[23:00]
mats	for the folks cashing btc, prob	[23:01]
trinque	if so, it plainly illustrates the degree to which these things have crept forward..	[23:03]
trinque	I can toss a 50 into the goodwill box anonymously, but not BTC	[23:03]
trinque	no one ever busted up a piss-odorous santa ringing his bell outside walmart	[23:04]
*	joshbuddy has quit (Quit: joshbuddy)	[23:10]
BingoBoingo	i mean, yes, bitpay is a usg op << My impression is BitPay is under such constraints because born insufficiently USG, now merely avoiding a Shreming	[23:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00053831 = 4.145 BTC [-] {2}	[23:12]
*	felipelalli (~felipelal@179.97.148.27) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:15]
*	felipelalli has quit (Changing host)	[23:15]
*	felipelalli (~felipelal@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:15]
BingoBoingo	And all the pederasty that comes with it	[23:16]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-07-2015#1201329 << confirmed. I haven't bothered to boot my 0.7.2 node back up since my power outage because it was completely wedged from this thing	[23:22]
assbot	Logged on 14-07-2015 20:32:43; mircea_popescu: anyway, run your own .6 or .7 and see what happens.	[23:22]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: try it now ?	[23:22]
danielpbarron	you want me to boot it up? I bet it will still be wedged as I haven't done anything to it	[23:22]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:23]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2015#1201767 << if you have a usd-denominated bank account, it probably does not matter through which channels you turn btc into usd	[23:23]
assbot	Logged on 15-07-2015 01:55:19; trinque: asciilifeform: could always accept them directly then turn into USD through the usual channels	[23:23]
asciilifeform	every single movement of the bank is reported.	[23:23]
danielpbarron	i'm sure I can manually feed it blocks or whatever the fix is, but my 0.5.3.1-beta node didn't need manual intervention / is currently synced	[23:23]
asciilifeform	danielpbarron: i specifically want to see what ends up in the log	[23:23]
asciilifeform	as it tries to catch up	[23:23]
danielpbarron	you want my debug.log files?	[23:24]
*	trinque departs to pick up new puter	[23:24]
asciilifeform	tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log > somewhere.txt	[23:24]
asciilifeform	as it runs.	[23:24]
danielpbarron	also i've been saving up debug.log between restarts via cat .bitcoin/debug.log >> debug.log	[23:24]
asciilifeform	above works better	[23:24]
danielpbarron	yes I now see why that would be better and feel foolish for the way I had been doing it	[23:25]
*	julmac (~harric@q186.ip4.netikka.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:25]
danielpbarron	funny too because I have tail -f ~/.bitcoin/debug.log going 24/7 but as a way of monitoring it	[23:25]
*	shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)	[23:25]
asciilifeform	http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33414358 << historical lulz	[23:33]
assbot	Eric Roberts: The spy who suffered - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4O3BQ )	[23:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 155114 @ 0.00054444 = 84.4503 BTC [+] {2}	[23:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60536 @ 0.00053788 = 32.5611 BTC [-]	[23:35]
ag3nt_zer0	cause for concern? or just another wiggle-the-sore-tooth obsession? http://psychology.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-racist_mathematics	[23:35]
assbot	Anti-racist mathematics - Psychology Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4OcVZ )	[23:35]
ag3nt_zer0	"While Western mathematicians often claim Western mathematics is universal, anti-racist mathematics and ethnomathematics scholars share the assumption that any given mathematical understanding or practice is a product of a particular culture.[4] Scholars such as C. K. Raju have advocated multicultural mathematics, in which different cultures can develop different forms of mathematics."	[23:35]
*	btcdrak has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[23:36]
asciilifeform	ag3nt_zer0: the (present-day) west's academitardia is trolling. ignore the lot of'em.	[23:37]
ag3nt_zer0	yes but the entertsinment!	[23:38]
ag3nt_zer0	heh	[23:38]
ag3nt_zer0	how's your day asciilifeform?	[23:39]
asciilifeform	http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-26365085 << related, re: provocateurs	[23:39]
assbot	MI5 spy controlled UK Nazi group, files reveal - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4OkES )	[23:39]
asciilifeform	ag3nt_zer0: splendid, went to a kind of groceries shop where pr0l3z are not permitted (costs a hundy/yr to enter)	[23:40]
*	shesek (~shesek@IGLD-84-229-153-73.inter.net.il) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:40]
asciilifeform	'costco', for u.s. folks. sorta like a meatspace 'amazon prime'	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	cazalla ah the mystery unravels, they wanted the guy as ceo so as to buy some legitimacy for something stupid they want to do.	[23:41]
ag3nt_zer0	whats a pr013? proletariat?	[23:42]
mircea_popescu	in other news : i am satisfied that the 363730 fork and the 363730-363736 dead chain contain nothing remarkable from a "hey guise they switched out the blokchanin" perspective. so i'm letting this rest.	[23:43]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[23:43]
asciilifeform	ag3nt_zer0: hard to describe unless you live here.	[23:43]
asciilifeform	ag3nt_zer0: the 'offensively poor' as described in mircea_popescu's articles.	[23:43]
asciilifeform	and the accoutrements that go with them (blatantly recycled food, tabloids, lottery crapolade, etc)	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	iirc the term was lumpen	[23:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it was largely empty, iirc !	[23:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu has it! lumpens.	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	as in lumpenproletariat	[23:44]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:44]
asciilifeform	but these have somewhat different flavours in different places.	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	of their time (at their prime, that is), on their own. << in no way did they do this. they merely went around with a horde of gypsies, chinese, etc. heck, the siege of byzantium used a hungarian cannonmaster.	[23:46]
*	menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	in this sense, the few captive "us trainers" they have work exactly like the mongols'	[23:46]
asciilifeform	turks	[23:46]
asciilifeform	hungarian cannonmaster, siege, -- turks	[23:46]
mircea_popescu	NATO would also presumably be happy to sell their enemies ammo for the right price << god knows romania has been doing it for a decade straight.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	but point taken. there is actually a mega-lulzy ru film about a captive ru derp used as 'computermaster' by chechens	[23:47]
ag3nt_zer0	it would be cool if readers in this group had a "Recommended readings" list or something... that would be awesome actually	[23:48]
mats	costco is great	[23:48]
ag3nt_zer0	well, I would love it at any rate	[23:48]
*	shesek has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[23:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80787 @ 0.00054878 = 44.3343 BTC [+]	[23:49]
asciilifeform	mats: i kinda wonder how many subscribers are paying not to see the lumpens	[23:49]
asciilifeform	rather than for the 2 percent off chumpatronics	[23:49]
mircea_popescu	'costco', for u.s. folks. sorta like a meatspace 'amazon prime' << used to shop at their equiv in ro. "selgros".	[23:49]
mats	dunno, i see plenty of lumpens coming in for rx and alcohol	[23:50]
danielpbarron	ag3nt_zer0, http://danielpbarron.com/ascii_book_list.txt	[23:50]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1M4OJam )	[23:50]
*	ColinT (~ColinT@69-11-97-130.regn.static.sasknet.sk.ca) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:50]
ag3nt_zer0	mircea_popescu: php got Eulora running on OSX... did he do anything different than is on the wiki?	[23:50]
mircea_popescu	iirc he updated the wiki to reflect his experience.	[23:50]
mats	they can't exclude plebs for those particular purchases i believe	[23:50]
asciilifeform	mats: the one i went to had a bouncer.	[23:50]
asciilifeform	no photo card - no enter.	[23:50]
mats	lol	[23:51]
asciilifeform	also no credit cards, but 'amex'	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	the romania version requires you to have a corp registered	[23:51]
mats	really? no MC/Visa?	[23:51]
ag3nt_zer0	I was following then got all paranoid and been stuck on researching what GCC is, whether or not it can compromise system, and whether this is all an elaborate scam to get my non-existent bitcoins	[23:51]
ag3nt_zer0	haha	[23:51]
asciilifeform	mats: aha. nope	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	ag3nt_zer0 gcc is the basic compiler. your kernel was compiled in it.	[23:52]
mats	never seen one like that. but i have been tempted to get a 'costco amex', the rates are good and amex has historically had great customer service	[23:52]
mats	and i hear their entire back-end is mostly paper	[23:52]
asciilifeform	mats: the clerk informed me (when collecting my hundy) that their amex thing will vanish next year.	[23:52]
*	danielpbarron has amex	[23:52]
asciilifeform	leaving hell knows what, if anything	[23:52]
ag3nt_zer0	danielpbarron: thanks!	[23:52]
BingoBoingo	mats: aha. nope << Other cards still work if processed as "debit" rather than "credit"	[23:53]
mod6	so i've got the two binaries recompiled, not stripped. not exactly sure what i'm looking for in here. doing a diff with objdump.	[23:53]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: aha	[23:53]
BingoBoingo	https://archive.is/Lqg4D	[23:53]
mod6	i have serached forward to SSL	[23:53]
assbot	tootie comments on Content Policy update. AMA Thursday, July 16th, 1pm pst. ... ( http://bit.ly/1M4OU5i )	[23:53]
mats	that sounds dicey. wouldn't want to input a PIN at their POS	[23:53]
asciilifeform	iirc they also take old-fashioned money.	[23:54]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: It's a miracle of fiat makingall sorts of distinctions where same accounts use many different payment network messes	[23:54]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: the operative distinction is 'no chargebacks', i think	[23:54]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: It's the terms of chargebacks more often	[23:55]
BingoBoingo	fiat is weird	[23:55]
*	danielpbarron prefers to use cash whereever possible so as to give merchant the option of keeping it "under the table"	[23:55]
mats	asciilifeform: is there a repository on the internets somewhere for windows symbol files (not Windows Symbol Server)?	[23:56]
asciilifeform	mats: not afaik	[23:56]
asciilifeform	but if exists, probably .ru	[23:56]
asciilifeform	try yandex.	[23:56]
mats	i'm looking for a pdb to 'vwififlt.sys', for an intel wifi card i believe	[23:56]
mats	ok	[23:56]
asciilifeform	i can't think of a reason to suspect that this was ever public, but doesn't hurt to look.	[23:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65888 @ 0.00053749 = 35.4141 BTC [-] {2}	[23:57]
ag3nt_zer0	Today I was looking at LoperOS and one of the things I read was his article about the kill switch... searched the logs for commentary but didn't find too much. But I thought maybe I had read something addressing it on Trilema... is that right?	[23:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19362 @ 0.00053467 = 10.3523 BTC [-]	[23:58]
asciilifeform	ag3nt_zer0: i don't recall mircea_popescu ever devoting a whole article to specifically that one. his position, iirc, is 'satoshi lost the keys'	[23:58]
asciilifeform	why this was - i can't recall. might like to ask him.	[23:59]
BingoBoingo	dunno, i see plenty of lumpens coming in for rx and alcohol << Rules for this happen on a state-by-state basis. Normally the "shame" keeps all but saviest lumps out	[23:59]
ag3nt_zer0	was Vorhees correct in his assertion that the study was "fatally flawed" for not accounting for numerous "ewallets" being strung to one address?	[23:59]
BingoBoingo	was Vorhees correct in his assertion that the study was "fatally flawed" for not accounting for numerous "ewallets" being strung to one address? << at the time likely in part	[23:59]
decimation	re: costco amex < yeah I posted about this awhile ago. turns out amex didn't want to 'make a deal' to keep costco, and instead steer their business toward servicing poor folks at walmart	[23:59]

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