Forum logs for 10 Jan 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
BingoBoingo beautyon: I don't see how they could not know. I mean they can't even get their favorite to stop bleeding because they pay $145/CPM for TV marketing [00:00]
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mircea_popescu yeah, a lot of ground has been lost since the hearn attack. [00:01]
mircea_popescu wasn't such a smart move, that. [00:01]
mircea_popescu and for that matter, i marked mtgox for death in april, they struggled to prop it for six months before abandoning it ignominously, i do not believe they do not know they can not stand. [00:02]
mircea_popescu the half or so that's left, anyway. [00:02]
mircea_popescu actually... quarter i guess. buncha people left last year too didn't they. is murky boy still involved ? [00:03]
BingoBoingo Murckckkck left the Fundnation [00:04]
BingoBoingo Because he just wanted to lobby [00:04]
mircea_popescu ah ok. [00:05]
beautyon That HashFast schmuck had good lawyers. [00:05]
mircea_popescu beautyon hardly. [00:05]
mircea_popescu you don't pay good lawyers out of 50k a year. [00:05]
mircea_popescu wait no. 50k net worth and 500 a month. [00:05]
beautyon But didn't he just walk away essentially? [00:06]
BingoBoingo Oh he got the whole farm [00:06]
mircea_popescu this is the rule in corp bankruptcy proceedings as administered in the us [00:07]
mircea_popescu you actually do better by not even hiring a lawyer. [00:07]
mod6 <+joecool> mircea_popescu: nice domain for the foundation, did you guys actually fix 0.5.3 to fetch all blocks??? << yup. [00:07]
BingoBoingo you actually do better by not even hiring a lawyer. << Personal bankruptcy differs in that you get a lawyer because it compells phone spam aggro to their number and not yours [00:08]
mircea_popescu sure, personal's anothermatter, especially if you had any assets. [00:08]
decimation personal bankruptcy is basically a well-oiled chumpatron [00:08]
joecool mod6: solid, i'll open a bug to get it included in gentoo (and troll Luke-Jr) [00:09]
mircea_popescu lol [00:09]
mod6 :D [00:09]
BingoBoingo mod6: solid, i'll open a bug to get it included in gentoo (and troll Luke-Jr) << He prolly has a historical version of his patch set s should be fine with it. [00:11]
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BingoBoingo !up shovel_boss_ [00:11]
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beautyon By the way, are you going to publish a low level guide to warn everyone thinking about "upgrading" to the fork? Forearmed is forearmed. [00:12]
BingoBoingo sure, personal's anothermatter, especially if you had any assets. << Nah, you get the lawyer in personal ESPECIALLY when you don't have assets [00:12]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i meant in terms of getting raped. [00:12]
mircea_popescu beautyon you could. [00:12]
BingoBoingo beautyon: mircea_popescu laid out basics, but more guides written differently could help more innocents get the picture [00:13]
assbot If you go on a Bitcoin fork, irrespective which scammer proposes it, you will lose your Bitcoins. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [00:13]
beautyon I'll do it. [00:13]
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joecool mod6: are there plans to patch things like change predictability? [00:14]
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mircea_popescu joecool CVE-2013-2273 you mean ? [00:15]
joecool yes [00:16]
mircea_popescu weren't they working on 5.9 ? [00:17]
joecool 0.5.3 is the version linked on [00:18]
mircea_popescu right you are. [00:19]
mircea_popescu i shall let teh experts comment. [00:19]
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mod6 joecool: not at this time, but that might get added to the list at some point. [00:22]
mod6 the list is getting lengthy, but we're not going anywhere, so we've got time. [00:24]
joecool cool, you want any patches submitted for review on stuff like this? [00:25]
asciilifeform mod6: here's something i was gonna put in 'chicken' (init patch) but somehow forgot: version string. [00:26]
asciilifeform mod6: presently it spits out the traditional one. perhaps this should change at some point. [00:26]
mod6 joecool: here's a guide to submitting a patch: [00:26]
assbot ... ( ) [00:26]
mod6 if persons submitting patches do not have L2 trust with assbot they may be submitted directly to me, and I will review. and will probably have to sponsor said patch myself. [00:27]
joecool nah shouldn't be a problem, i have L2 [00:28]
joecool format looks easy enough to follow, cool [00:28]
mod6 yup, shouldn't be an issue for you. we'd love the help. [00:28]
mod6 asciilifeform: ah ok. hmm. well, too late to go back and edit the 1st patch. but i guess you can submit another that resolves that issue. [00:29]
[]bot Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,885. [00:29]
* mod6 looks [00:29]
asciilifeform mod6: i'm leaving this for the folks actually involved [00:29]
asciilifeform one of you will have to pick the new string. [00:30]
mircea_popescu joecool> cool, you want any patches submitted for review on stuff like this? << definitely that part. [00:30]
* asciilifeform just wanted a fscking hardcopy of bitcoind [00:30]
mircea_popescu send to the list, signed. [00:30]
mod6 asciilifeform: sure. ben & myself were just discussing this yesterday actually. heh. not sure what this version will be called yet. [00:31]
mod6 might be v0.5.3.1 [00:31]
asciilifeform change predictability << personally i'd like to see the problem solved in the civilized way. i.e. [00:31]
assbot Logged on 23-10-2014 05:06:33; asciilifeform: decimation: in my (now very old) plan for rewrite, there were to be two machines [00:31]
asciilifeform walletron doesn't belong in the net stack. or on that box at all. [00:32]
mircea_popescu someone refresh me on what exactly that vuln was anyway ? [00:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7056 @ 0.00066962 = 4.7248 BTC [+] [00:33]
asciilifeform the entirely nonsensical way in which the client decides what to do with 'change'. [00:34]
mircea_popescu so what you can spend other people's change ? [00:37]
mircea_popescu iirc that was due to a bad hardware "rng" [00:37]
asciilifeform neh that wasn't it [00:37]
asciilifeform that was another one. [00:37]
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asciilifeform (the duplicate nonce thing) [00:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3264 @ 0.00066802 = 2.1804 BTC [-] [00:38]
mircea_popescu joecool do you recall what that cvs actually did ? [00:38]
asciilifeform [00:39]
assbot Bug 462046 – net-p2p/bitcoind, net-p2p/bitcoin-qt: multiple vulnerabilities (CVE-2013-{2272,2273,2292,2293}) ... ( ) [00:39]
mircea_popescu 2293 i recall was a retarded dos that had about 0 practical use [00:40]
asciilifeform anyone else puzzled that nowhere on the net - including above 'canonical' page - tells us wtf it did, in detail ? [00:40]
asciilifeform my sole recollections are from a brief discussion here, i think. [00:41]
mircea_popescu i dunno why but drawing a blank [00:41]
asciilifeform the default change behaviour is asinine (owing to how it destroys wallet backup as a concept) but i cannot recall how it can be seen as 'vulnerable' [00:42]
joecool i guess should look and see how they patched the behavior [00:44]
asciilifeform the whole cve paradigm is pure nsa, incidentally [00:44]
asciilifeform a 'chinese encyclopaedia' of, for the most part, mystery meats [00:45]
mircea_popescu but since we're discussing this, CVE-2013-2292 is still not fixed ? [00:45]
asciilifeform with 'the full dirt' presumably stowed away somewhere far. [00:45]
mircea_popescu (the take forever to verify tx thing) [00:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yteah i am quite unhappy with an' suspicious of the current avenues for fixing "open source" software. [00:46]
asciilifeform this goes beyond the merely suspicious or ill-reputed, but is shitgnomery plain as daylight [00:46]
asciilifeform cve is the sec. research equivalent of the 1990s 'winamp playlist' (who remembers these ?) [00:47]
mircea_popescu i still have them [00:48]
mircea_popescu how do YOU listen to music ? [00:48]
asciilifeform 'mplayer' [00:48]
asciilifeform (cmd line proggy) [00:48]
asciilifeform but the playlists in question were a fashion where kids posted them on their 'look i have a w3bs1t311111' [00:48]
asciilifeform but no warez behind the names, naturally [00:49]
mircea_popescu anyway, a point of strategy, which i think everyone'll appreciate cuz it's lulzy. so : the scam foundation and its merry band of power rangers have very carefully constructed this situation where "nobody knows" what's what and whence it came and where it's going, because they (wrongly) perceived that ownership of an opaque codebase will guarantee them control and continued relevance. [00:50]
mircea_popescu the problem with this approach is that once challenged, they can not i nfact produce a list of what they did. [00:50]
mircea_popescu outside of handwaves and "it has been covered in previous posts", three years of "development" can readily be discarded and nobody'd know the difference. [00:50]
mircea_popescu how's that for irony. [00:51]
asciilifeform they could try to worm out of this tight spot by coughing up a 'wunderwaffen' [00:51]
asciilifeform but it seems doubtful [00:51]
asciilifeform incidentally, 'disregard x years and you'll never see the difference' is sop on usg projects. [00:52]
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joecool !up xe4l [00:55]
* assbot gives voice to xe4l [00:55]
xe4l thanks [00:56]
xe4l new rng someone passed along [00:56]
assbot OneRNG - Hardware Random Number Generator ... ( ) [00:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform do you have any idea what sort of work's involved in coughing up wunderwaffen that weren't planned for ? [00:56]
asciilifeform !s onerng [00:56]
assbot 4 results for 'onerng' : [00:56]
asciilifeform discussed in detail. [00:56]
mircea_popescu xe4l was mentioned b4 [00:56]
xe4l rgr ty [00:56]
asciilifeform xe4l: do read the linked threads. [00:57]
xe4l already reviewing [00:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wunderwaffen that doesn't have to defeat the enemy, but look impressibe - is a little easier. [00:57]
asciilifeform *impressive [00:57]
mircea_popescu considering whom it has to look impressive to... [00:57]
mircea_popescu defeating enemy prolly easier. [00:58]
asciilifeform at any rate, why would the phoundation's handlers cut their funding now ? [00:58]
asciilifeform unless they have a replacement muppet brigade on hot spare [00:58]
mircea_popescu what do you think this is, some sort of wh fast tracked project ? [00:59]
asciilifeform by the looks of it, probably a 'they showed up' kind of affair [00:59]
decimation what would a 'wunderwaffen' even be like? some kind of fatal bug they secretly fixed? [01:01]
asciilifeform decimation: neh. something more like a 'new, shiny, xxxxx' reimplementation in $trendylang [01:01]
BingoBoingo at any rate, why would the phoundation's handlers cut their funding now ? << Hearding 101. If the sheep don't want to move on you let them get hungry in their overgrazed pasture. Makes them more receptive to new grass. [01:02]
asciilifeform ^ relevant: [01:02]
assbot ... ( ) [01:02]
asciilifeform (re: general chumpatronics. begs to be photodiddled.) [01:03]
decimation asciilifeform: based on their current work 'output' that scenario seems very unlikely [01:03]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: pretty much [01:03]
asciilifeform the muppets' work? sure. handlers? could extract it (from where? don't look at me) and put in their hands [01:03]
asciilifeform like stone tablets to moses [01:03]
BingoBoingo It's systemd all over again. Work is their enemy. Enemy is merely interested in producing anti-work. [01:04]
xe4l in review, onerng pros: cheap, shielded cons: hobbyist level device, design flaws [01:04]
asciilifeform !s spreading works [01:04]
assbot 19 results for 'spreading works' : [01:04]
decimation lol yeah that poster is hilarious. the best cattle *volunteer* for the bioreactor [01:04]
asciilifeform [01:05]
assbot Logged on 20-08-2014 06:37:37; asciilifeform: soviet scientist declares, 'we've invented a shit-to-food converter.' 'does it work?' 'sorta. spreading on bread: worlks!!11! eating - not quite yet.' [01:05]
asciilifeform xe4l ^ [01:05]
xe4l hahahahaha [01:06]
BingoBoingo Related: We just detected that you’re now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. << Profile picture is a Llama. Not metaphorically or anything. Picture is actual shaggy Llama. [01:06]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: why are you on a zoophile site ? [01:06]
asciilifeform (appears to be a logical inference here? llama was voted up?) [01:07]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Nah. Bitcoin accepting merchant "Okcupid". Simply probing a data aggregator that happens to accept BTC. [01:07]
xe4l anyone using traffic creation software to mask activity? Eg: all internet connectivity from residence is routed out vpn(s), using QOS and traffic simulation software you maintain say 10mbit worth of various traffic (replaying or creating all relevant encapsulated protocols in use) with a low QOS setting such that your consumption is undetectable? [01:10]
mircea_popescu Related: We just detected that you’re now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. << Profile picture is a Llama. Not metaphorically or anything. Picture is actual shaggy Llama. << ahahaha wut. [01:10]
asciilifeform xe4l: let's imagine we were. wouldn't discussing it here defeat the purpose of the exercise ? [01:10]
xe4l in this context, not really actually [01:11]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo: why are you on a zoophile site ? << it's not a zoophile site. it's a women's site. [01:11]
asciilifeform xe4l: were you here for the 'buried treasure' thread ? [01:11]
xe4l negative [01:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actual woman on dating site? lol wtf [01:11]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Nominally they accept Bitcoin and the same founders also made the thing. Gotta see if the average man on it looks worse than an ungulate. [01:11]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla he's right isn't he ? 1400 btc the most ever bet in a single bet on bitbet innit ? [01:11]
assbot Here's part n of our endless saga, aptly titled "The People Know Shit" or alternatively "Nothing's Dumber Than The Voice In The Crowd". pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [01:11]
xe4l !s buried treasure [01:12]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: actual woman on dating site? lol wtf << Site in question kept my dick wet through Library school. [01:12]
assbot 10 results for 'buried treasure' : [01:12]
mircea_popescu xe4l there's a deeper point involved here. stealth does not work in and of itself, as a strategy. if you want safety, you deploy an army. if you want to play the stealthy, you attach yourself to something with an army. [01:13]
xe4l I'm quite aware of Opsec [01:13]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: But since the founders made the Keybase abomination, I want to find out how much their original venture lies [01:13]
xe4l it's trivial to detect if someone is or isn't doing what I described, it's merely a layer to mask activity inside of a segment [01:14]
asciilifeform << buried treasure thread. instructive. [01:14]
xe4l talking about how you deal with protocol timing attacks would go more with the buried treasure opsec concept [01:14]
assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom [01:14]
kakobrekla yes, good to know it works with numbers over 1k. [01:16]
mircea_popescu well really, over 100000000000 [01:16]
kakobrekla hehe [01:16]
mircea_popescu xe4l i guess i don't understand what the purpose would be [01:17]
xe4l it's trivial to sniff most connectivity, especially wireless [01:17]
mircea_popescu right... [01:17]
BingoBoingo "Google Adwords" [01:17]
assbot St. John's College | After St. John's - Careers - Alumni Outcomes ... ( ) [01:17]
asciilifeform it's trivial to sniff most connectivity, especially wireless << >> 'it is trivial to steal most objects, especially rotting squirrels in parks' [01:18]
xe4l the size, shape, duration, timing, etc of our traffic, no matter how encrypted still provides a wealth of information [01:18]
xe4l if for instance, your laptop, desktop, phone, whatever; always did 10mbit of encrypted traffic with variations in timing, packet size, etc [01:19]
mircea_popescu i think you will soon discover if you ever get to the practical side of things that denying ALL INFORMATION to an undefined attacker is a function of infinite budgets. [01:19]
mircea_popescu in general, to keep 99% out of any attacker's hands you'll need to spend 100x what they spend. [01:19]
asciilifeform [01:20]
assbot Logged on 05-01-2015 05:22:48; mircea_popescu: Fun noobs have a reputation of wishing to get involved in the most complex end of any matter first thing. [01:20]
asciilifeform !s invert matrix [01:20]
* xe4l has a background in information security consulting for fortune 100's [01:20]
assbot 2 results for 'invert matrix' : [01:20]
mircea_popescu << one of the most idiotic articles on btc [01:20]
assbot Bitcoin's Shocking Resilience and Achilles' Heel | Benzinga ... ( ) [01:20]
mircea_popescu "David Smith [01:20]
mircea_popescu David is on track to retire in two years from investing in bitcoins. David wants to help you understand the once in a lifetime opportunity this digital currency revolution provides." [01:20]
asciilifeform (naggum, of course) [01:20]
assbot Logged on 27-08-2014 01:00:10; asciilifeform: 'pardon my cynical twist, but what are you doing with that 20,000×20,000 double-precision floating point matrix you say you need to invert _today_? If you answer "nutt'n, I jus kinda wondered what it'd be like, you know", you should be very happy that I am most likely more than 3000 miles away from you, or I would come over and slap you hard.' [01:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00066802 = 1.1356 BTC [-] [01:21]
mircea_popescu "david has a mental issue that makes him see vivid scenes from literature and also forces him to write about himself in the third person." [01:21]
xe4l what I'm talking about is simply providing less information, right now all of our connectivity generates a substantional amount of noise that can be intperetered, my thought is to shift that to, they are transmitting and receiving or they aren't [01:22]
mircea_popescu i guess something on udp then [01:22]
asciilifeform xe4l: let's start with the fact that 10mb/s will instantly promote you to your isp's 'hog list' in some, if not all, isp [01:22]
decimation who is 'they', and what are you transmitting or receiving? [01:22]
asciilifeform wasn't on a list the day before, and now you are. [01:22]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform now that's an excellent approach to make the point. [01:23]
xe4l asciilifeform: it was a crude example, a proper implementation would do fancy shaping, but normalize the overall traffic pattern; I'm sure residential providers wouldn't like this, but MPLS/VPLS, metro-e, routing over peering/IX - it's irrelevant [01:23]
decimation asciilifeform: what is comcast's 'secret' bandwidth cap these days? a few hundred gigabytes per month [01:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i got a piece of junk mail once, advertising specially-made capsules (for folks who have no idea how to use a saw or glue?) for buring rifles. [01:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: picture the fool who buys this, with his credit card, has it sent, etc. [01:24]
mircea_popescu decimation 60 from what i hear. [01:24]
xe4l over wireless you would pulse, your receiver would always transit and receive say 10mb every hour on teh hour [01:24]
asciilifeform 'whatamoron' - lizardhitler [01:24]
mircea_popescu xe4l i don't get what the attacker is supposed to think here. "oh, it's ok, that's just what that weird node does" ? [01:25]
* assbot removes voice from xe4l [01:26]
asciilifeform xe4l: student exercise in traffic analysis. << litecoin miner graphs. say which ones are chumpnet-powered. [01:26]
assbot - P2Pool Graphs ... ( ) [01:26]
asciilifeform answer (rot13) - boivbhfyl, gur fvahfbvqf. qnl/avtug plpyr, znpuvarf trg fjvgpurq ba, bss. gur cynarg gheaf. [01:28]
BingoBoingo !up xe4l [01:28]
* assbot gives voice to xe4l [01:28]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: i got a piece of junk mail once, advertising specially-made capsules (for folks who have no idea how to use a saw or glue?) for buring rifles. << Obvious hypothesis, they found a Wasp cache and kept the rifles [01:30]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: neh, cheap plasticky crap [01:30]
asciilifeform chumpatron [01:30]
asciilifeform with bait component [01:30]
BingoBoingo Ah [01:30]
decimation like those magnets you stick to your gas tank to improve fuel economy [01:31]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: [01:31]
assbot Logged on 07-01-2015 04:40:04; *: asciilifeform rather thinks that this is a military matter, where adversary can afford to ransack and search 100 houses but not 100,000, and hence his gathering bits of info - matters [01:31]
BingoBoingo Cheap is prolly fine as long as you use enough cosmoline and can find solvent, but yes. Selling specifically for rifles problematic. [01:32]
xe4l mircea_popescu: oh the point would be that a sniffer would either see say 1mbit full duplex say ipsec traffic [01:33]
asciilifeform xe4l: then enemy relocates to the other end of the connection and proceeds to do - whatever he was originally to do at your end [01:33]
xe4l mircea_popescu: if the endpoint isn't doing anything, the software saturates the encrypted tunnel up to the same traffic volume/patter/protocol [01:33]
xe4l think TOR but you always do 10mbit FD [01:34]
xe4l no one can tell if your node is even doing anything or if it's just all white noise [01:34]
asciilifeform 'no one' ? lol [01:34]
xe4l lol valid point, few organizations other than the NSA have any idea if data is moving or not [01:35]
BingoBoingo xe4l: You idea seems to introduce of getting v& for DDoS as plausible reason even if attacker can not tell your actual schtick [01:36]
xe4l the idea is to reduce the number of data points that can be gathered from sniffing [01:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00066802 = 13.5274 BTC [-] [01:49]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform you realise searching 100k houses just "creates jobs" right ? [01:53]
mircea_popescu if it were a military matter they wouldn't cut the walls offhouses. [01:53]
mircea_popescu think TOR but you always do 10mbit FD << o that's what this is, you fixing what you read about tor vulnerabilities recently ? [01:54]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 30 * 24 * 3600 * 10 / 8 [01:56]
gribble 3240000 [01:56]
xe4l mircea_popescu: haha, naw, TOR has a host of issues; this is merely a security layer if contemplated deploying [01:57]
mircea_popescu amazon will let you have that for ~300 a month [01:57]
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mircea_popescu so thinking further on the project to compare ecdsa libraries from yest... i guess the best thing would be to email respectable crypto people see if they want to do it as a contracted job. anyone wish to make recommendations ? [02:04]
mircea_popescu aka "got a favourite cryppie ?" [02:05]
* assbot gives voice to mats [02:09]
mats colin percival, moxie [02:10]
TomServo kakobrekla | i just find the whole fetch command thing silly. << If it was named scoopdog that'd be one thing... [02:12]
mircea_popescu mats aha [02:12]
mircea_popescu noted [02:12]
mats DJB, too [02:17]
mircea_popescu put links if you have em [02:18]
mats DJB contact [02:19]
assbot ... ( ) [02:19]
mats cpercival moxie with gpg key [02:21]
assbot Tarsnap - Contact ... ( ) [02:21]
assbot Moxie Marlinspike >> About ... ( ) [02:21]
mircea_popescu nice [02:22]
joecool hm i wonder if he ever pops on irc, his co has a small channel [02:24]
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mircea_popescu experience over the past few years shows that answer is generally yes [02:25]
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mats [02:29]
assbot Snowden: US has put too much emphasis on cyber-offense, needs defense | Ars Technica ... ( ) [02:29]
mircea_popescu he's consulting now ?! [02:30]
mats 'defense' is kinda misleading imo [02:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00065591 = 5.2801 BTC [-] {2} [02:36]
mircea_popescu "fix the damned software" "nu-uh, we'd rather look for bugs in the chinese's" "they're using the same shit, you know" [02:36]
mats ...suggesting that computers as they are can be proportionally defended, rather than a contest of risk management and attack surface [02:36]
mircea_popescu mats if i defend my windows, i look for holes. if i attack your windows, i... look for holes ? [02:36]
mircea_popescu wtf is the difference. [02:36]
mircea_popescu obviously, on a strategic plane the difference would be "stop making broken by design software ; behead all the shitgnomes ; adopt bitcoin as us currency" etc. [02:37]
mircea_popescu but that's a way waiting. [02:38]
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mats f/oss has best community [02:44]
assbot Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( ) [02:44]
mircea_popescu obviously i read "floss" [02:45]
mats as intended! [02:45]
mircea_popescu i don't get it. so, stallman-gcc, is at odds with stallman-emacs and they don';t wanna talk inside his head because cacti ? [02:47]
mats ive read it several times and concluded a) i dont get it and b) f/oss is embarassing and dumb [02:49]
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mircea_popescu [02:49]
assbot Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( ) [02:49]
mircea_popescu apparently there's some debate about ast output in gcc. [02:49]
mircea_popescu anyway, the gcc-emacs merger seems slowly but surely emergent [02:52]
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mircea_popescu mebbe they could call it gccemacsd [02:54]
mats id like to see gcc contribs move over to llvm, if for no other reason than to motivate both parties [02:55]
mircea_popescu i have not looked at the matter in at least 3 years. does llvm still own gcc much to everyone's chagrin and denial ? [02:55]
asciilifeform it never did, afaik [02:55]
asciilifeform on any parameter i know of [02:55]
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asciilifeform but apple, etc. love it on account of no gpl [02:56]
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mircea_popescu [02:57]
assbot [Phoronix] GCC 5.0 Outruns LLVM 3.5 Compiler By A Bit On Core-AVX2 ... ( ) [02:57]
mircea_popescu im still there [02:57]
mircea_popescu llvm compiles faster, sucks at encryption (lol) and by degrees at everything else. [02:58]
mircea_popescu sounds like the true c compiler! [02:58]
asciilifeform iirc rms is concerned about something quite valid - gcc has excellent front-end and ast-level optimizations, while at the same time, a middling-to-poor set of back-ends (depending on cpu arch) [02:59]
mircea_popescu take half and run, yes [03:00]
asciilifeform back-end optimizations, that is [03:00]
asciilifeform aha. plenty of folks want to take, take, run. [03:00]
BingoBoingo [03:00]
assbot [Bitcoin-development] OpenSSL 1.0.0p / 1.0.1k incompatible, causes blockchain rejection. ... ( ) [03:00]
mircea_popescu aww [03:00]
mats RMS pisses on llvm [03:00]
assbot ... ( ) [03:00]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo let me dig up my own words from the damned logs [03:01]
BingoBoingo Everyone knows you have them. [03:02]
BingoBoingo !up Vexual [03:02]
* assbot gives voice to Vexual [03:02]
mircea_popescu [03:04]
assbot Logged on 08-01-2015 08:24:54; mircea_popescu: he's prolly aiming for putting it in by february, but won't actually have the tech resources to do it and rather than risk a total humiliatory blowout delay it to march [03:04]
mircea_popescu already cracking at teh seams. [03:04]
mircea_popescu day later. [03:04]
asciilifeform 'wunderwaffen' answered. [03:06]
asciilifeform -- 'soft' fork on some other minor point, boil frog more slowly. [03:06]
mircea_popescu not good enough. [03:07]
mats [03:08]
assbot MassPrivateI: Mass. law enforcement agencies claim they're corporations and they're exempt from FOIA requests ... ( ) [03:08]
mircea_popescu "While I have often cautioned people before to avoid using libsecp256k1 [03:08]
mircea_popescu for verification on the grounds that consensus trumps correctness, the [03:08]
mircea_popescu above incompatibility does strongly suggest that OpenSSL may not itself [03:08]
mircea_popescu have very good consensus-critical design. Along with Maxwell and [03:08]
mircea_popescu Wuille's recent findings¹ CVE-2014-3570 - strong evidence of the [03:08]
mircea_popescu excellent testing the library has undergone - I personally am now of the [03:08]
mircea_popescu opinion that migrating Bitcoin Core to libsecp256k1 in the near future [03:08]
mircea_popescu is a good idea on the grounds that it provides us with a well-written, [03:08]
mircea_popescu and well-understood library designed with consensus in mind that'll [03:08]
mircea_popescu probably give us fewer consensus problems than our existing OpenSSL [03:08]
mircea_popescu dependency. It'll also help advanced protocol implementations by giving [03:08]
mircea_popescu them a clear dependency to use when they need consensus-critical [03:08]
mircea_popescu signature evaluation." [03:08]
mats [03:08]
assbot Bank of America warns of 'lethal' damage to China's financial system as deflation deepens - Telegraph ... ( ) [03:08]
asciilifeform mats: old news i think [03:08]
mircea_popescu unless there's some sort of major backdoor in wuille's ecdsa implementation... [03:08]
mircea_popescu anyway, ima get on teh comparison requests tomorrow. if anyone has more names to suggest as per above... [03:08]
asciilifeform mats: see also: [03:09]
asciilifeform !s gendarmerie [03:09]
assbot 7 results for 'gendarmerie' : [03:09]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, doing the 'nix openssl' thing from therealbitcoin idea list ? [03:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform seems so. [03:11]
mats asciilifeform: ive only seen this specific issue get airtime in the last few months [03:11]
mircea_popescu not that THAT is a bad move in any sense, of course. but timeo Danaos et dona ferentes. [03:11]
mats but yes, i agree with the premise re: gendarmerie [03:12]
BingoBoingo [03:12]
asciilifeform i expect to be a minority of one on this, but i'd much rather see it done by one of the folks here, than by a great sage who may or may not have been suborned (or shall be as soon as enemy gets wind of intention) [03:12]
assbot ... ( ) [03:12]
asciilifeform unless you'd like to hire them in pairs. [03:12]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" Odds: 28(Y):72(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,593. [03:12]
mircea_popescu the asking is public, let teh enemy pluck its hairs. [03:13]
mats BingoBoingo: chimps are terrifying. [03:13]
BingoBoingo mats: Of course [03:13]
asciilifeform has anyone considered how preposterous the entire notion is, of bitcoin depending in the least bit on crud in external libs that can change on a whim ? [03:16]
mircea_popescu you mean, has anyone considered how idiotic "update now" is ? [03:18]
mircea_popescu yes, actuyally, they have. here even, publicly and explicitly. [03:18]
asciilifeform ah yes, more or less that. [03:18]
asciilifeform but it's especially ludicrous for safety-critical proggy [03:18]
asciilifeform and astonishing how long folks have been putting up with it. [03:18]
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mircea_popescu not astonishing in the slightest. [03:20]
mircea_popescu first, there was one man, who couldn't code, doing idiotic things like windows and qt. [03:20]
mircea_popescu then there was a group of youthful men doing what seemed clumsy but well meaning stuff [03:20]
mircea_popescu then they were cast out and a bitcoin foundation constructed. [03:20]
mircea_popescu seems very reasonable really. how short would you have put up with it ? [03:21]
* asciilifeform recalls now the discussion of 'what do the mega-miners run, and why should they ever wish to tell us' [03:22]
mircea_popescu side note : i read someone (maybe joel on soft ?) in a wonderful piece "why i never upgrade" and i've never been able to find it again. ne1 know it ? [03:22]
asciilifeform mats: gcc... a) i dont get it... << what's the hard concept here? rms wishes to avoid gcc turning into a sweet and defenceless piece of candy for the 'embrace & extend/extinguish' folks. [03:28]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform he's characteristically weak in the rhetorics involved. [03:29]
mircea_popescu i very much doubt half his closest collaborators grok what he means on the strenght of his text. you yourself, i suspect, followed the logic of the situaiton not the logic of his words. [03:29]
asciilifeform situation aha [03:29]
asciilifeform 'the spartan - speaks with his sword.' [03:30]
mircea_popescu well yeah, so, i don't understand wtf he's saying either. [03:30]
asciilifeform weak rhetoric, but he wields the zapper. [03:30]
mircea_popescu i do understand what he should be saying. but... [03:30]
asciilifeform through the sword i listen to wtf he is actually saying. [03:30]
asciilifeform reportedly, rms keeps a harem. perhaps it understands his words. [03:31]
mircea_popescu i never heard that report. [03:31]
mircea_popescu i heard of parrots and a fear of bathing and cactus [03:32]
* assbot removes voice from Vexual [03:32]
* asciilifeform cannot swear to it, mainly informed thirdhand re: a variety of rms women. [03:32]
asciilifeform cactus ? [03:32]
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mircea_popescu myeah [03:34]
* asciilifeform does not know what to believe, but did at one point meet an actual live woman who spoke at length of writing to rms and wishing to make close acquaintance - no luck [03:35]
mircea_popescu this proves harem in the sense person offering large stores of grain to dissinterested cad thereby proves cat's a farmer. [03:36]
asciilifeform lol [03:36]
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asciilifeform re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased [03:37]
BingoBoingo !b 2 [03:37]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [03:37]
mircea_popescu in my limited experience with harems and the people keeping them, you can more or less get a trial run. especially as a young, entused woman. [03:37]
BingoBoingo Damn, missed [03:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform specifically, gaddafi was regarded as similarly odd, [03:37]
mircea_popescu especially as he become politically inconvenient [03:37]
mircea_popescu and in direct relation to that. [03:37]
asciilifeform aha. [03:38]
asciilifeform re: mr g: [03:38]
asciilifeform [03:38]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his ve [03:38]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permiss [03:38]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: eased with their mediocrity. 'But this fellow from the desert!' (Interestingly, that among the hundreds of tyrants, in uniform and without, depending on the united states or the european sanitaria, none provoke a fraction of the wrath caused by Kaddafi. Evidently, the cause is his independence.) Kaddafi - is an extraordinary living proof of the fact that the fairy-tale version of life [03:38]
assbot Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:41; asciilifeform: t only outside of the sanitaria.' [03:38]
asciilifeform (limonov) [03:39]
mircea_popescu << some of the lulzier (because vintage) drama. [03:39]
assbot Open Source to Go!: Emailing Richard Stallman ... ( ) [03:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00066802 = 4.5091 BTC [+] [03:39]
mircea_popescu tl;dr : gnome twerp is "I’d strongly encourage you to refrain from such comments in the future.", because that's how the world works nao. [03:41]
asciilifeform pour la gnome-aille, il faut la mitraille. [03:42]
asciilifeform or sumthinglikethat [03:42]
mircea_popescu "315 comments", you understand. [03:43]
mircea_popescu still, they're funny. guy derps about how "concerns echoed again and again are ignored!!11" and is amazed. then people echo again and again the concern that "wtf loosen up" and "why are you publishing some guy's emails ?" which he... amazingly... ignores. why ? [03:44]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [03:44]
mircea_popescu "because he wqon't read me! and there's no other way to vent my little penis!" [03:44]
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mircea_popescu it's so great to live in this day and age. [03:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15798 @ 0.00064422 = 10.1774 BTC [-] {2} [03:45]
mircea_popescu sometimes i shudder at the thought at how comparatively harder and humoruless-er my life would have been, had i chanced to live among sane people. [03:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu could have ended up writing monte carlo sims for implosion tampers on gigantic trinary computer. in refal. [03:47]
mircea_popescu but this is a lot more fun. [03:47]
asciilifeform !b 2 [03:47]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [03:47]
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mats !s graham allison [03:55]
assbot 2 results for 'graham allison' : [03:55]
mats << i missed this. is he unreliable? [03:58]
assbot Logged on 10-07-2014 16:05:38; asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: only worth reading if there's a source other than alexander lebed circa 1997. [03:58]
mircea_popescu [04:00]
assbot The Meme Hustler - The Baffler ... ( ) [04:00]
mircea_popescu "The enduring emptiness of our technology debates has one main cause, and his name is Tim O’Reilly." [04:00]
mircea_popescu whodda thunk making a shitton of "x for idiots" books will result in a large bleating herd of idiots! [04:01]
mircea_popescu NOBODY COULD HAVE FORESEEN [04:01]
mircea_popescu (ethymology also interesting : stallman's favourite pressman - evgeny morozov - running down o'reilly because he's not left enough!!) [04:08]
mircea_popescu meanwhile, the relative failure of foss is strictly due to the incongruous and often misshapen radical leftist ideas of stallman. had that thing been "the same old gospel of individualism, small government, and market fundamentalism that we associate with Randian characters" it'd not be struggling covered under a pile of open source. [04:09]
mats [04:10]
assbot The nature and history of equity [04:10]
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mats whoops ... wrong one. i'm reading about the Earl of Oxford's case [04:13]
mats [04:14]
assbot ... ( ) [04:14]
mircea_popescu which one is that ? [04:14]
mats > concerned land in London which Henry VIII had gifted to Thomas, Lord Audley, as a reward ... By his will, Audley left the land to Magdalene College, Cambridge, but the college subsequently sold the land and some of it was acquired, indirectly, by the Earl of Oxford. Magdalene College challenged Oxford's title on the basis of a statute which prohibited the [04:19]
mats disposition of College lands ... as part of the original sale, Magdalene College had made an intermediate transfer to Queen Elizabeth with the deliberate intention of bypassing the statute. [04:19]
mircea_popescu heh [04:20]
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mircea_popescu you know a simple summary of all the many ways english barristers tried to use the crown as a fixed point to unseat the lawe would be dazzling. [04:24]
mats i pity the research assistant [04:25]
mircea_popescu one example : original legislation to defend the living against mortmain holdings required all wills vest [04:25]
mircea_popescu but how ? and they came to the idea to make it vest in a definite relation to a definitely existing thing [04:25]
mircea_popescu on the principle that nothing that is is forever, and so... [04:25]
mircea_popescu the reaction ? make wills reference the throne succession. so wills would be as good as the lifetime of the dynasty. [04:26]
mircea_popescu that had to be excised specifically, which is how the wills practice got to be so insanely complicated, the us practitioners pretty much gave up. [04:26]
mats ;;dict mortmain [04:27]
gribble wn: mortmain n 1: real property held inalienably (as by an ecclesiastical corporation) [syn: {mortmain}, {dead hand}] 2: the oppressive influence of past events or decisions [syn: {dead hand}, {dead hand of the past}, {mortmain}] [04:27]
mircea_popescu the dead are at the following advantage over the living : they don't feel any pressure to change their views. [04:28]
mircea_popescu this may become untenable. [04:29]
mircea_popescu to illustrate : suppose i am me, and i happen to believe that all females should spend a decade right after puberty nude at all times. i happen to be rich, and mindful of my beliefs. while i accept that i can't oder people around, i also expect them to respect my disposition of my own property. and so my will reads, that all my stuff is to be inherited by so and so successors, provided at all times all females pubescen [04:34]
mircea_popescu t for a decade or less on that property are nude. [04:34]
mircea_popescu my neighbour, a man of different notions but similar methods, orders all black haired people to always wear square hats. [04:34]
mircea_popescu a few century later, "circus" means a place where everything's quiet. because a simple walk down the street makes one's head spin. [04:35]
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mats [04:45]
assbot One Phone Call is Not Enough: Court Rules You Have the Right to Google a Lawyer - Michael Geist ... ( ) [04:45]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [16:05]
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* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [16:05]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [16:05]
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chanserv OP #bitcoin-assets [16:10]
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mircea_popescu << lol right, like nuland. [16:10]
assbot Logged on 10-01-2015 18:56:19; decimation: "But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less." [16:10]
mircea_popescu cheeky politicos you got over there. [16:10]
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decimation yeah, there's no way they will prosecute [16:11]
mircea_popescu orly. [16:11]
decimation but the little people in usg find that 'unfair' [16:11]
mircea_popescu peterl btw, know who invented rsa ? [16:11]
mircea_popescu decimation i suspect you don't understand how that world works. [16:12]
mircea_popescu xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core << this, of coruse, was discussed for the past few days :) [16:12]
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mircea_popescu kakobrekla bwahaha slander! i'll bet you 1btc straight up they don't do it this month. [16:13]
decimation I note someone put a hefty weight against that gold bet [16:14]
mircea_popescu hm enough so im almost tempted to bet. [16:15]
decimation to think that gold will crash is also to think that usd will gain. it's possible, with all this 'oil shock' working its way around [16:16]
mircea_popescu gold has a problem of demographic. the only people that think gold is functionally useful as a monetary metal are poor. they may be a numerous echelon, relatively speaking, what's left of the upper middle class proceeding on vague intuition and memories. however, they're poor. [16:19]
mircea_popescu and that poor speaks a lot more to power than just money. [16:19]
mircea_popescu to everyone else, gold is this quaint horse buggy. no dispute it worked at some point, no desire to go back to that point. [16:19]
mircea_popescu no chance of it, either. [16:19]
joecool mircea_popescu: i built core off libressl, the response was "it builds?" [16:23]
mircea_popescu heh [16:24]
mircea_popescu not much love for de radt in power rangerlandia hm ? [16:24]
joecool apparently not [16:24]
decimation [16:28]
assbot Obama to Propose Cybersecurity Measures - WSJ ... ( ) [16:28]
decimation Mr. Obama will also outline proposals to tackle identity theft and expand Internet access.The proposals are part of a White House preview of Mr. Obama’s annual State of the Union address, to be delivered Jan. 20. [16:28]
decimation good luck with that [16:28]
mircea_popescu joecool anyway, the objection generally given to change in that spot ("that the code being merely correct is not enough assurance") is logically valid. [16:31]
joecool it's cool though, they are ditching openssl, i'm sure whatever they replace it with will do a better job :) [16:33]
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mircea_popescu im not. [16:35]
mircea_popescu the exact thing played out once before, "it's cool though, they're ditching bdb, im sure whatever they replace it iwth will do a better job" [16:35]
mircea_popescu it could. not in their hands it won't. [16:35]
joecool mircea_popescu: oh that was entirely sarcastic, i did not phrase that seriously [16:36]
mircea_popescu o [16:36]
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adlai gold is the old world's litecoin [16:58]
adlai had our fun, moving along. [16:59]
mircea_popescu i was thinking that as i wrote, but then dropped. yes, an apt analogy in many ways. very inept in others tho [17:02]
adlai it got me wondering what the old world's bitcoin is, and the least senseless answer is 'bitcoin' [17:03]
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mircea_popescu nah, the old world's bitcoin is an unexpressed mix of contracts and reputation. [17:03]
kakobrekla no chance of it, either. < putin thinks otherwise. [17:04]
mircea_popescu yes, well, putin is running a country. if you're running a country too, by all means, cover all bets to the degree he does. [17:04]
mircea_popescu makes me wonder where's your nuclear subs, but anyway. [17:04]
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cazalla [17:43]
assbot Are we witnessing the beginning of a civil buttcoin war? : Buttcoin ... ( ) [17:43]
thestringpuller "It looks like he made his goal in life to be the most detestable person in the internet. (Methinks he is still nowhere near that rank, though.) However he is a precious resource, as an expert bitcoiner who enjoys kicking some of the most sacred cows in bitcoinland." [17:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00065872 = 8.0034 BTC [+] {3} [17:48]
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cazalla bit more here too [18:02]
assbot Fork off ... ( ) [18:02]
mircea_popescu is that about me ? [18:06]
cazalla mircea_popescu, nothing you have not heard before lol [18:06]
mircea_popescu aha [18:07]
mircea_popescu aite well iwas writing a lengthy piece, brb. [18:07]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [18:10]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 276.25, vol: 37825.31373356 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 271.597, vol: 8362.04945 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 277.71, vol: 30430.02066324 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 279.0, vol: 29.42532153 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 270.617724, vol: 119575.66800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 280.0, vol: 51.85575948 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 284.113569988, vol: 36.2511054 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [18:11]
Apocalyptic cazalla, even "It is a possibility that the MP argument is a virtually literal strawman, atop a bonfire, to fuel a flame war that drives up his LTC holdings." ? [18:11]
undata wtf is virtually literal [18:11]
undata is that like almost true? [18:12]
Apocalyptic as sensible as the whole statement [18:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00066802 = 4.3755 BTC [+] [18:12]
BingoBoingo << My favorite so far [18:14]
assbot Fork off ... ( ) [18:14]
thestringpuller reading stuff like this makes me think of the matrix [18:14]
thestringpuller where you get unplugged and see all this crazy shit and at some point you hack back in and see all the dumb people completely unaware of there shit [18:14]
thestringpuller allegory of the cave shit yo [18:15]
thestringpuller As Louis Armstrong said, "As I think to myself, was I ever this dumb?" LOL [18:15]
Apocalyptic BingoBoingo, reads like the only reasonable answer so far [18:16]
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danielpbarron if the hard fork happens, it should be possible to cycle funds in and out of exchanges that are dumb enough to switch, splitting away real-bitcoin whenever the withdraw gives you an output that hasn't been doublespent yet -- or is this possibility too good to be true? [18:28]
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BingoBoingo danielpbarron: May be possible. I'd count double spending your coins yourself to seperate forks before using them in anger. [18:29]
danielpbarron yes that's what i mean; withdraw, split, send fake-coins back into exchange, repeat [18:30]
danielpbarron when "dust settles," exchange is now fractional reserve (if it wasn't already) [18:31]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron no, it works just fine. gavincoin has to accept both bitcoin and gavincoin txn. this writes free options to everyone in bitcoin that gavincoin is held to honor regardless. [18:31]
mircea_popescu so yes, separate your gavincoins, send to exchange, withdraw. see if it replies with a bitcoin+gavincoin pair, if so separate it again. [18:32]
mircea_popescu if not, it's out of bitcoin. [18:32]
mircea_popescu (on the theory oldest inputs are favoured) [18:33]
mircea_popescu cold wallets may save them to some degree, but it's pretty random. [18:33]
thestringpuller in theory, gavincoin will cost more to produce [18:33]
thestringpuller the blocks > 1mb [18:33]
thestringpuller the gigachain is more expensive in nature no? [18:33]
Apocalyptic this would work only until the input the exchange is spending for your withdrawal is on both chains [18:34]
mircea_popescu i guess it would. [18:34]
mircea_popescu Apocalyptic hence "if it doesn't, it's out of bitcoins" [18:34]
Apocalyptic indeed [18:34]
mircea_popescu working on the assumption of naive exchange, of course. [18:34]
mircea_popescu in practice i';d expect them to separate their funds immediately, and only pay out gavincoins. [18:34]
mircea_popescu so they scam the userbase more than the userbase scams them [18:34]
thestringpuller also, isn't it impossible to guarentee gigachain has 1:1 parity with main-chain? [18:35]
mircea_popescu how do you mean ? [18:35]
thestringpuller they would have to wait for main-chain to mint [18:36]
thestringpuller then include all transactions in main chain [18:36]
thestringpuller then add more then mint it [18:36]
mircea_popescu heh somehow i doubt that's how it'l lwork. [18:36]
thestringpuller by statistics alone, the transaction will very greatly in each chain [18:36]
mircea_popescu right. [18:37]
thestringpuller so in order to defend the attack gavin would have to include code to keep 1:1 parity with the main-chain while his blocks are minted [18:37]
mircea_popescu it wouldn't defend. [18:38]
thestringpuller how he does that, i dunno and I don't care [18:38]
thestringpuller not commpletely defend, just make it so doors are wide open [18:38]
thestringpuller aren't* [18:38]
mircea_popescu 1 tx is say 400 bytes. if i split 1k btc into 1k 1 btc txn that's 400kb. if i dump 400kb on the network as it is now, about half would be put into a block immediately. [18:38]
mircea_popescu whereas in gavincoin, all would go in. [18:38]
mircea_popescu thus, i split half already. [18:38]
thestringpuller exactly. [18:39]
thestringpuller even with 1:1 parity, you still get [18:39]
mircea_popescu so the only way to have bitcoin is 1:1 identity in all respects. [18:39]
mircea_popescu which is as it should be, really. [18:39]
thestringpuller transactions in gigachain that won't exist in main chain [18:39]
thestringpuller funny how even trying to dumb the article down, people still don't get that [18:39]
thestringpuller i even made a cute little diagram [18:40]
mircea_popescu i dunno what';s not to get [18:40]
thestringpuller i guess we just don't know how bitcoin works amirite? [18:40]
mircea_popescu this is likely. [18:41]
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mircea_popescu anyway, this is exactly like that alt coin that went nowhere which was going to give everyone with bitcoin as many of the altcoin as they had bitcoin [18:44]
mircea_popescu i forget its name, but it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. [18:44]
danielpbarron CLAMs [18:44]
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danielpbarron the justdice thing [18:44]
mircea_popescu the author thought he "covered" the economics involved. then it turned out the author had no fucking idea. [18:44]
mircea_popescu was that it ? pretty sure there was one before [18:45]
mircea_popescu rigth at the time keiser was pushing his aurora scam [18:45]
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SnakePls_ !up [18:58]
kakobrekla dont break the thing now. [18:59]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla did bitstamp ever send teh documents ? [18:59]
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kakobrekla not yet, but its weekend now, they are prolly drinking in some bar. [19:00]
mircea_popescu in sf ?! [19:01]
mircea_popescu maybe starbux [19:01]
kakobrekla they dont have bars there? [19:01]
kakobrekla brb [19:01]
mircea_popescu a) you can't smoke ; b) alcohol is bad for you mkay [19:04]
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adlai "So I think the lack of a real computer science today, and the lack of real software engineering today, is partly due to this pop culture [of the personal computer]." [19:04]
assbot A Conversation with Alan Kay - ACM Queue ... ( ) [19:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18720 @ 0.00065069 = 12.1809 BTC [-] {2} [19:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13084 @ 0.00066898 = 8.7529 BTC [+] {2} [19:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6416 @ 0.0006749 = 4.3302 BTC [+] [19:28]
thestringpuller "That's my point. Before you kick a sleeping tiger that has no teeth make sure you can see his gums" [19:30]
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scoopbot New post on BTC Scoop by peter: [19:57]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.0006749 = 13.9367 BTC [+] {2} [20:38]
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ben_vulpes afternoon, gents [20:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00067109 = 4.597 BTC [-] [21:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00067109 = 17.9181 BTC [-] [21:08]
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scoopbot New post on BTC Scoop by peter: [21:12]
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Apocalyptic PeterL, the link on "reported" is broken [21:18]
* assbot gives voice to PeterL [21:21]
PeterL fixed, thanks [21:21]
Apocalyptic yw [21:21]
ben_vulpes stan the key you signed those patches with has expired [21:23]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform ^^ [21:23]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it was updated [21:23]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: resync your gpg [21:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00067109 = 3.6574 BTC [-] [21:23]
asciilifeform (am i the only one who still expires keys?) [21:23]
thestringpuller asciilifeform i hope they model an AI construct after you one day. [21:25]
asciilifeform wat [21:25]
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thestringpuller i'd love to have asciilifeform AI controlling my house [21:27]
thestringpuller like JARVIS in Iron Man. [21:28]
mircea_popescu [21:29]
assbot BitPay Lays Off 9 Employees Today | ... ( ) [21:29]
mircea_popescu so it begins huh. [21:29]
thestringpuller funny how bitstamp's "survival" is front page news but this isn't [21:30]
asciilifeform it had employees !?! [21:30]
thestringpuller ;;google bitpay layoffs [21:30]
gribble BitPay Lays Off 9 Employees Today | ; | Bitcoin News, Views & Commentary: ; Richard Branson Bitpay Statement - Business Insider: [21:30]
PeterL speaking of bitpay ... are you ever going to put F.DERP shares for sale? [21:30]
* asciilifeform was quite certain that it consisted of a perl script or two [21:30]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: i toured the offices. they have like 30+ employees [21:30]
thestringpuller what they do I do not know [21:30]
thestringpuller s/have/had [21:31]
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PeterL I suppose they could be marketing, trying to get companies to sign up for their service? [21:31]
ben_vulpes "socal media" [21:31]
ben_vulpes (not a typo) [21:32]
asciilifeform l0l!!! [21:32]
PeterL are they located in socal? [21:32]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: try sokal media [21:32]
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ben_vulpes PeterL: 'tis a reference to the homeland of the social networks [21:34]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: lol [21:34]
mircea_popescu PeterL yeh gotta do that. i will yes. [21:34]
PeterL but wouldn't that be in Northern California? [21:35]
ben_vulpes it's all somalia to me [21:35]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes weren'tthey in florida or something ? [21:35]
PeterL lol, close enough [21:35]
ben_vulpes jeez guys leave my shitty puns alone [21:35]
mircea_popescu anyway, socal is where the really easy skanks / surfer dudes / rednecks live. [21:35]
PeterL ha, I can be hard to please sometimes [21:35]
PeterL Socal has nice weather, but the people ruin it [21:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00064987 = 18.2613 BTC [-] {4} [21:38]
PeterL looks like the person who bid based on the 10X valuation mistake finally removed their bid [21:39]
ben_vulpes bruce oreck is my hero [21:42]
PeterL do tell, why? [21:42]
ben_vulpes PeterL: [21:43]
assbot ... ( ) [21:43]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: where is this long article you've been working on all day? [21:44]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller bout halfway done it's a scandal! [21:45]
mircea_popescu i don't mean the article's a scandal, i just mean, it being so long is scandalous. [21:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27551 @ 0.00064035 = 17.6423 BTC [-] {4} [21:53]
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thestringpuller !up shovel_boss_ [21:58]
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thestringpuller !up the_real_john_ga [21:58]
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shovel_boss_ why did i get up [21:58]
thestringpuller you joined channel? [21:59]
thestringpuller force of habit [21:59]
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thestringpuller [22:16]
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scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [22:32]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what on earth do you have against kalash ?! i keep wondering. [23:04]
mircea_popescu nothing! i have nothing against ice breakers and atomic shelters, either. but i don't own any! [23:04]
asciilifeform aha [23:04]
mircea_popescu i don't go down the street carrying a horse. or a boat. [23:05]
mircea_popescu they're great, but... [23:05]
asciilifeform the article phrased a little differently: 'smartphone... much like ak... simply not useful' [23:05]
mircea_popescu not UNIVERSALLY useful [23:05]
asciilifeform hence confused. [23:05]
mircea_popescu it's not superman's fucking cape already. [23:05]
mircea_popescu what'd you do with it ? shoot someone ? [23:05]
asciilifeform scalpel also not universally useful. [23:06]
mircea_popescu if you kill fifty people a day and it's giving you carpal, get an ak do it faster. that i see. [23:06]
mircea_popescu you've never killed anyone ? what's a rifle to you ? get a dildo. [23:06]
mircea_popescu brb. [23:06]
ben_vulpes dafuq does this dishwasher get off claiming a "smart wash" mode? [23:06]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: envirowhinerism [23:07]
ben_vulpes what kinds of smarts can the thing possibly have [23:07]
ben_vulpes now the washing machine can at least measure moments of inertia, and make some kind of guess about how much water to derp into itself, that i'll scowlingly perhaps accept if i'm in a generous mood. [23:07]
asciilifeform smart as in 'smart free speech.' [23:07]
ben_vulpes but the dishwasher!? [23:07]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: "phree" [23:07]
undata maybe it measures how turdly the water draining out the bottom is? iono [23:08]
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undata some kenmore one claims to detect the turdliness of the dishes themselves [23:11]
thestringpuller << is everyone just dumb? [23:11]
thestringpuller should I start watering my plants with gatorade yet? [23:11]
asciilifeform elektrolytes! [23:12]
ben_vulpes << reddit startles [23:12]
assbot Elmer__FUD comments on Peter Todd on Twitter: "With Bitstamp on Amazon AWS, there's a high probability that some Three Letter Agency has a copy of their databases; expect zero privacy." ... ( ) [23:12]
thestringpuller ;;google "I'm so startled" [23:13]
gribble Preview Clip - I'm So Startled! - Video Clip | South Park Studios: ; So Startled - YouTube: ; I'm so STARTLED - YouTube: [23:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7275 @ 0.0006762 = 4.9194 BTC [+] {2} [23:13]
* asciilifeform puts for the record that he is very much looking forward to the first case of goxian btc theft that can only be explained by an overenthusiastic politruk and his root pw. [23:14]
thestringpuller "Oops I accidentally copy pasted this password wrong." [23:14]
asciilifeform you'll know gotterdammerung isn't far when usg btc-fiat exchange handlers start lifting from the pots, in broad daylight, and leaving their 'patients' to take the blame. [23:16]
asciilifeform or what, you didn't think 'kyc' extends to private keys? [23:17]
ben_vulpes [] the default change behaviour is asinine (owing to how it destroys wallet backup as a concept) but i cannot recall how it can be seen as 'vulnerable' << wallet notion itself is asinine [23:17]
ben_vulpes or rather, notion that bitcoind should bear responsibility for tracking your coinholdings. [23:17]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: one can conceive of 'wallet' that doesn't try to abstract over the actual mechanics of bitcoin [23:18]
ben_vulpes lol one can concieve of all sorts of things asciilifeform [23:18]
kakobrekla betmoose declined my offer. :( [23:18]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: surprised ? [23:18]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: how would you propose the user is to keep track of his coin ? [23:18]
ben_vulpes spreadsheet or org mode file should be adequate for the user of "angry five" [23:19]
kakobrekla well i wasnt expecting an answer at all tbh. [23:19]
thestringpuller who needs a wallet when you can just create the transaction offline, and then feed the finalized thing to the node [23:19]
ben_vulpes ^^ that behavior actually blows the wallet concept entirely pu [23:19]
thestringpuller have no idea why they haven't split the node from the wallet [23:19]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: we discussed splitting [23:19]
undata yeah, given a sane interface to feed transactions all manner of other programs can do as they please [23:20]
asciilifeform it seems like an utterly obvious and necessary thing to me [23:20]
ben_vulpes have no idea why they haven't split the node from the wallet << mostly time. [23:20]
asciilifeform private keys belong on airgapped machine [23:20]
thestringpuller well in general. [23:20]
ben_vulpes raw transaction api backport's not totally trivial. [23:20]
thestringpuller fucking bitpay with their nodejs wallet-core-thingamafucker [23:20]
ben_vulpes "https-snipsnip" this ain't. [23:21]
thestringpuller i'd revel in conformal's products if it wasn't written in GO [23:21]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: oh tchyeah that thing's considered harmful. [23:21]
ben_vulpes ah, what's wrong with go, thestringpuller? [23:21]
thestringpuller i don't know it? [23:21]
thestringpuller XD [23:21]
ben_vulpes just another *lang [23:21]
asciilifeform single-vendor turdware ? [23:21]
thestringpuller ^- this should be used more often [23:22]
ben_vulpes i smell toe jam cooking [23:22]
thestringpuller This is how I will describe SAP for now on. [23:22]
asciilifeform what's toe jam cooking ? [23:22]
ben_vulpes !s stallman toe jam [23:22]
assbot 0 results for 'stallman toe jam' : [23:22]
ben_vulpes ;;google stallman toe jam [23:22]
gribble Richard Stallman Eats Something From His Foot - YouTube: ; The Hacker Guru With the World's Best Tour Rider - Gawker: ; Richard Stallman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: [23:22]
thestringpuller Yea he literally eats something from his foot [23:23]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: you might enjoy last night's thread about this very thing. [23:23]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: and below [23:23]
assbot Logged on 10-01-2015 06:34:07; asciilifeform: re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased [23:23]
thestringpuller asciilifeform would enjoi rick and morty [23:24]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: i actually saw it. [23:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12524 @ 0.00067745 = 8.4844 BTC [+] {2} [23:24]
ben_vulpes i'll get there eventually, asciilifeform [23:24]
mircea_popescu but the dishwasher!? << it probably uses less water if you put less clothes in [23:25]
ben_vulpes heh. [23:25]
ben_vulpes i musta been putting the wrong objects in the wrong boxes this whole time. [23:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform "I don't perceive a smartphone's worth having. Much like an AK-47, if not for the same reason." << i think it's clearly stated. like an assault rifle, a smartphone's not worth having. not for the same reason tho, but nevertheless, not worth having. [23:26]
* ben_vulpes goes to swap dishwasher and laundry machine loads [23:26]
thestringpuller one day future asciilifeform will show up in a delorean talking like Christopher Lloyd. this is when my life will truly begin. [23:26]
thestringpuller anyhow I'm going to go get two birds stoned at once [23:27]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: smokes. let's go. [23:28]
mircea_popescu "Whoever stands between progress in Bitcoin should be ignored." [23:28]
mircea_popescu lol cazalla the derps are precious. [23:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'march from me to the next oak tree.' [23:28]
mircea_popescu apparently the libertards are actually retarded enough to have misapprehended bitcoin as some sort of ally for their stuff. [23:29]
asciilifeform ^ i noticed this when writing the 'mpex review' article [23:29]
undata mircea_popescu: some, most aren't intelligent enough to grasp it at a surface level [23:30]
mircea_popescu sort-of like the way the penguin died out. [23:30]
mircea_popescu undata right. "men with guns ? wheee they came to play!" [23:30]
undata when I was younger I thought Ron Paul was the way [23:30]
undata it only took a few encounters with that crowd to decide otherwise [23:30]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: interestingly, back when there was a roughly similar 'messianic' cargo cult around pgp (the original pgp) - the folks involved more or less missed all the interesting implications of their toy. [23:30]
* undata was raised by "paleoconservatives" [23:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform perhaps for the same reasons. [23:30]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2234 @ 0.00088999 = 1.9882 BTC [-] {6} [23:30]
asciilifeform for exactly same reasons [23:30]
cazalla mircea_popescu, we'll see how much of their derping translate into traffic.. that thread is 2nd most popular on bitcointalk today according to [23:31]
mircea_popescu cazalla if it does translate into traffic you'll see it as a worsening of the demographic quality lol. [23:31]
cazalla if we're lucky, some will stop by here having read it [23:31]
asciilifeform i'll take the liberty of quoting old article of mine: ' I can’t help but picture a flashlight or a radio set, left behind in the wilderness by geologists, to be picked up later by some Stone Age aboriginals; to be fought over and worshiped. Until the batteries run out. But the batteries have not yet run out! The flashlight shines, the radio plays. Let’s listen and hear what it plays. ' [23:32]
mircea_popescu pgp seems to be living a nice 2nd youth these days tho [23:32]
asciilifeform savages, by definition, cannot properly apparehend a flashlight. [23:32]
asciilifeform the more furious their activity around it, the more folly. they will come no closer to understanding, e.g., battery [23:33]
mircea_popescu the definition of savages, you will notice, is formal not substantial. [23:33]
mircea_popescu references to formal definitions as "by the very definition" are shaky. [23:34]
asciilifeform it's a comic book picture, the image [23:34]
asciilifeform unfortunately applies to a number of very real people [23:34]
mircea_popescu that it does. [23:34]
mircea_popescu kinda why a worldwithout selection wouldbe so sad [23:35]
* asciilifeform racks brain to recall the film where a stone age tribe finds glass bottle [23:35]
asciilifeform aha, here: [23:36]
ben_vulpes "the gods must be crazy" [23:36]
assbot The Gods Must Be Crazy (1980) - IMDb ... ( ) [23:36]
* ben_vulpes imagines watching this flick with a typical progre [23:36]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes you live in a good town for that, neh ? [23:36]
mircea_popescu pick one up! [23:36]
* Dr-G2 (~Dr-G@gateway/tor-sasl/dr-g) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:37]
mircea_popescu "If you are worrying about the time when 20MB per block is filled, you are worrying that bitcoin will have 20x more transactions, an increase from the currently throttle of approx 6 per second to around 120 per second. If you are worrying that bitcoin will have 20x more transactions, then you are worrying about it having many more users." [23:37]
mircea_popescu derp. [23:37]
mircea_popescu it's so funny how the arguments in favour of inflation go with the "general public" [23:38]
cazalla turns out the black guy of that movie died 13 years ago.. sorry to be such a debbie downer [23:38]
mircea_popescu this could be about silver, or about assignats, or about "the debt ceiling" or anything [23:38]
* Dr-G3 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [23:39]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i always found it rather odd that folks who very easily see the problems with, e.g., pollution of the atmosphere or of the sea, fail to grasp an exactly analogous argument re: inflation [23:40]
mircea_popescu because they know that money's going to them. [23:40]
asciilifeform and whatever's on the other end of the belching smokestack, isn't ? [23:40]
mircea_popescu not them. [23:41]
undata there's that and also, I think the american system demonstrates just how obedient the average person is [23:41]
undata and for those that don't get it, they've just been told not to by their televised tribe [23:41]
mircea_popescu "If Popescu chooses to wage war in fragmented environment and can demonstrate some potential to come out victorious I'll likely put my resources behind his efforts. This exclusively because whatever his motivations might be, his basic end goal and my own seem to align." [23:41]
mircea_popescu sez tvbconf [23:41]
mircea_popescu course, forum has no idea who tvbconf is, but hey [23:42]
mircea_popescu what difference does identity make ?! ANONIMITY IS THE SOLUTION! [23:42]
thestringpuller the alert keys are currently only held by gavin and theymos? [23:44]
ben_vulpes does waiting on apparent victory to ally ever work out? [23:44]
thestringpuller in what the WWII sense? or what? [23:45]
thestringpuller and i'm not cory or trevor ben_vulpes :P [23:45]
mircea_popescu generally it's everyone;s favourite tactic lol [23:45]
thestringpuller i'm more of a bubbles [23:46]
asciilifeform works great for usa, vultures, etc. [23:46]
* badon has quit (Quit: Leaving) [23:46]
ben_vulpes i guess it works if your goal is to suck the conqueror's cocks. [23:46]
mircea_popescu "I don't think a hard fork would be very difficult, but only if the following two points are taken into account: [23:46]
mircea_popescu - Support for the fork should be overwhelming. If 95% of the users agree with the fork, the 5% that don't are pretty much forced to participate. Sure, they can keep running the non-forked version, but coins on that chain will be unlikely to keep their value." [23:46]
mircea_popescu people just don't like to read do they. [23:47]
ben_vulpes like to lol [23:48]
thestringpuller I wonder how Gavin got compromised. Will make for intersting movie one day. [23:49]
ben_vulpes i'm guessing dollars. [23:50]
undata thestringpuller: compromised how? [23:50]
thestringpuller Like did men in black suits just show up and tell him "this is how it's gonna be" [23:50]
thestringpuller like being a CIA asset [23:50]
thestringpuller or like what [23:50]
undata I dunno was poettering compromised? [23:50]
ben_vulpes "useful fool" is a phrase asciilifeform's to describe the type [23:50]
undata ^ [23:50]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: due to lenin [23:50]
asciilifeform originally, 'useful idiots' [23:50]
mircea_popescu (the point that you don't REALLY need to fork bitcoin to "enlarge blocks" is acutally 2 years old) [23:50]
assbot Auxiliary block: Increasing max block size with softfork | ... ( ) [23:50]
mircea_popescu everyone prolly forgot. [23:50]
thestringpuller yea it's even linked in the fork off thread [23:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10515 @ 0.00066518 = 6.9944 BTC [-] [23:52]
thestringpuller and people kinda just push it under the carpet [23:52]
thestringpuller "Nah. We want a hardfork." [23:52]
mircea_popescu right. [23:53]
mircea_popescu so what's next, if this somehow succeeds ? two years from now, liberia uses bitcoin as nat'l currency, suddenly the workers go on strike, ask for double salaries. govt asks gavin to fork btc to give them an extra one-off five million btc to pay the workers. [23:54]
mircea_popescu everyone agrees, right ? [23:54]
mircea_popescu because a) poor workers, they need it and b) not agreeing would be being against expanded usage of bitcoin [23:54]
thestringpuller yay. free bitcoins for everyone! [23:54]
mircea_popescu and for that matter c) there's already precedent, the "poor users" who wanted to play but didn't want to pay tx fees were given free stuff before. [23:54]
ben_vulpes "bitcoins" [23:54]
thestringpuller no we can all buy aston martins [23:54]
thestringpuller now* [23:55]
mircea_popescu how about the idea is that bitcoin adoption means OTHER PEOPLE AND THINGS CHANGE ? [23:55]
mircea_popescu we don't change for the fucking world. the world changes. anything and everything. [23:55]
mircea_popescu the sec changes its procedures to accomodate my dictates. [23:55]
mircea_popescu liberia fucking changes its labor laws to accomodate bitcoin. [23:55]
mircea_popescu that sort of thing. [23:55]
mircea_popescu wtf are we here, to entertain the world ? [23:55]
ben_vulpes it's not really an argument at this point. [23:56]
mircea_popescu this isn't tv. [23:56]
ben_vulpes just kinda...inevitable. [23:56]
mircea_popescu what is ? [23:56]
thestringpuller war [23:56]
ben_vulpes world changing [23:56]
ben_vulpes war too [23:56]
mircea_popescu yeah well... [23:56]
asciilifeform i'm not sure why it even matters what the gavinists do, so long as the original blockchain continues to run as designed. it then remains a 'hawala' between actual people, and zimbabwe can do whatever [23:56]
ben_vulpes usg can mandate its serfs run .10 or w/e [23:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform sure. [23:57]
mircea_popescu << [23:57]
assbot The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | ... ( ) [23:57]
mircea_popescu the great gift of satoshi is exactly that : we finally have a tool whereby idiots can only hurt themselves. [23:57]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i suspect that the only reason we do not yet have 'mandatory' national altcoins is that lizardhitler still hopes to wind back clock to '08 or the like [23:58]
mircea_popescu bitcoin didn't appreciably suffer because whatever scam, paycoin or w/e was created [23:58]
mircea_popescu "just as much a cryptocurrency, only better!" [23:58]
mircea_popescu recall realsolid ? [23:58]
mircea_popescu same deal here. so gavin is making something that [23:58]
mircea_popescu 's "just as much bitcoin as bitcoin only better" ? poopy for him lol. [23:58]
mircea_popescu he can pay gmaxwell in it and tip reddit. [23:58]
* hermeto (~prec@unaffiliated/hermeto) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:59]
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