Forum logs for 08 Oct 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* mike_c has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [00:02]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell fluffypony Do cape Daisies ever stop blooming? [00:04]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:04]
BingoBoingo [00:07]
assbot BitBet - FIFA President Sepp Blatter out of office in 2015 :: 0.36 B (24%) on Yes, 1.12 B (76%) on No | closed 4 months 5 days ago ... ( ) [00:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34917 @ 0.00050382 = 17.5919 BTC [+] {3} [00:15]
* assbot removes voice from contrapumpkin [00:28]
cazalla nice to sit down with a beer after shelling over 9000 broad beans [00:31]
BingoBoingo lol [00:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24087 @ 0.00050387 = 12.1367 BTC [+] [00:33]
* deedbot- has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [01:03]
* Disconnected (Connection timed out). [01:20]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [11:30]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [11:30]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [11:30]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [11:30]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [11:31]
* TheAdversary (~adversary@unaffiliated/hasimir/bot/theadversary) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:35]
* yhwh__ (~yhwh@unaffiliated/yhwh/x-6819798) has joined #bitcoin-assets [11:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51100 @ 0.00049875 = 25.4861 BTC [+] [11:53]
* yhwh_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [11:56]
mike_c re: email is not secure [11:56]
mike_c and yet, that's how my SSL certificates are delivered [11:56]
mike_c oh wait. brain fart. [11:56]
* mike_c delete last 3 lines [11:56]
mike_c where's my goddamn coffee [11:56]
mircea_popescu lol [11:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.00049721 = 22.9711 BTC [-] [12:05]
mircea_popescu << you will note that it's holy, from peru, and like 10 pesos. [12:08]
assbot Logged on 08-10-2015 01:56:30; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'incienso, ...., sandalo hierbas especificas que dejaran tu hogar libre de malas ondas!!' << mega-win! [12:08]
mircea_popescu but in their defense, while "onda" does strictly mean "wave", it is very amply used figuratively to denote bad fit, bad feeling, dubiousness of all kinds. [12:08]
mircea_popescu the way you say "i have a bad feeling about X" is mala onda. [12:08]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:09]
mircea_popescu << i'm with him, make her run track until exhaustion collapse three times each day for a few months, make some boots out of the spare skin, she'd be passible. [12:13]
assbot Logged on 08-10-2015 04:38:36; BingoBoingo: cazalla: That sounds dangerously close to sympathy with the MayoGendered [12:13]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [12:13]
mircea_popescu <<< opportunity kindly provided by inept nigger on chinese funds borrowed on guarantee of john q random citizen-derp's ass. [12:14]
assbot Logged on 08-10-2015 04:53:32; trinque: it occurs to me that the Syrian war is a decent opportunity for Russian demonstration of force to the world at large [12:14]
mircea_popescu omfg with the fat links already. [12:16]
mircea_popescu obese people are more revolting than rape and genocide. [12:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42556 @ 0.00049931 = 21.2486 BTC [+] {2} [12:17]
mircea_popescu those foam pics are someyhing else. [12:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13968 @ 0.0004997 = 6.9798 BTC [+] {2} [12:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15682 @ 0.00049976 = 7.8372 BTC [+] [12:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00049511 = 28.7659 BTC [-] {2} [12:50]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( )) [13:04]
* ascii_field ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40050 @ 0.00050016 = 20.0314 BTC [+] {2} [13:31]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:34]
* Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34087 @ 0.00049457 = 16.8584 BTC [-] {3} [13:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67500 @ 0.00050167 = 33.8627 BTC [+] {4} [13:39]
* ascii_field has quit (Quit: Leaving) [13:46]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [14:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00050334 = 24.9657 BTC [+] {3} [14:05]
* hanbot (~hanbot@unaffiliated/hanbot) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:10]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [14:11]
* yhwh__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [14:15]
* Emmanuelebuka (29dc44e0@gateway/web/freenode/ip. has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:17]
* Emmanuelebuka has quit (Client Quit) [14:18]
* yhwh_ (~yhwh@unaffiliated/yhwh/x-6819798) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:23]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12175 @ 0.00050006 = 6.0882 BTC [-] [14:53]
* CheckDavid (uid14990@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [14:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23591 @ 0.00050507 = 11.9151 BTC [+] {3} [14:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13609 @ 0.0005055 = 6.8793 BTC [+] [14:57]
* rithm (~skeet@unaffiliated/rithm) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:02]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [15:09]
* diana_coman has quit (Quit: Leaving) [15:19]
* ascii_field ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:22]
asciilifeform !up ascii_field [15:22]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_field [15:22]
ascii_field << weev lulz [15:22]
assbot US Attorneys shopping for prostitutes on taxpayer dime. -- Leaks incoming ... ( ) [15:22]
ascii_field and in other nyooz, [15:23]
assbot The Shappening ... ( ) [15:23]
ascii_field 'Concretely, we estimate the SHA-1 collision cost today (i.e., Fall 2015) between 75K$ and 120K$ renting Amazon EC2 cloud computing over a few months.' [15:24]
ascii_field see also [15:24]
assbot Logged on 24-09-2015 14:12:48; asciilifeform: << aha. but ever notice that it's sha1, and can't be changed to anything else? and, likewise, self-sigs are hardcoded to use sha1? it is pestilentially pervasive in the rfc, and Must Die [15:24]
punkman oh nice [15:28]
punkman what's a freestart collision? [15:29]
* ascii_field has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [15:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00050101 = 20.5665 BTC [-] [15:32]
BingoBoingo I mean, they'll bloom forever-ish, but only in summer/spring << Been going more summer to october here... [15:36]
punkman [15:36]
assbot REWARD offered for hash collisions for SHA1, SHA256, RIPEMD160 and other ... ( ) [15:37]
punkman "Note that the value of your SHA256, RIPEMD160, RIPEMD160(SHA256()) or SHA256^2 bounty may be diminished by the act of collecting it." heh [15:37]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:39]
* rdymac (uid31665@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:52]
* diana_coman (~diana_com@unaffiliated/diana-coman/x-8319396) has joined #bitcoin-assets [15:56]
BingoBoingo lols [16:01]
assbot rsynnott2 comments on BitVPS customers find out they aren't able to access services and no backups exist. Sorry for your loss. ... ( ) [16:01]
* yhwh__ (~yhwh@unaffiliated/yhwh/x-6819798) has joined #bitcoin-assets [16:01]
BingoBoingo "Rabbits have very strong feelings about the ACW. It's one of the reasons you never see black people with rabbits, as rabbits remain dogmatic supporters of the CSA and slavery to this very day. Your average rabbit is basically a furry Nathan Bedford Forrest." [16:02]
* yhwh_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [16:05]
jurov bitvps' colorful history prolly deserves longer writeup [16:06]
jurov just from my bad memory - it started as joint venture of an underage admin and other person who was supposed to actually pay bills [16:07]
trinque no backups is mindbogglingly bad [16:08]
jurov then it got listed (supposedly without consent of the latter) and later delisted from mpex [16:08]
jurov then it got sold to new owners [16:08]
jurov around that time coinbr was a customer and after a ddos got unceremoniously kicked out [16:09]
jurov then it got listed on buttfunder and btctct [16:09]
jurov then that went sour, too (i stopped following long before that) [16:09]
punkman well obviously they suck, but isn't backup usually the customer's responsibility? [16:10]
jurov re: to that - insert as second row that the bills really got unpaid, twice during the half year while coinbr was there [16:11]
jurov dunno why i did not move earlier [16:11]
trinque punkman: sure but what's your reputation worth [16:12]
trinque a host should always back-up [16:12]
trinque lest they be tarnished with the mark of "lost everything that one time" [16:12]
punkman trinque: well sometimes the host offers a backup service for a fee, at least as far as cheap vps boxes go [16:13]
trinque I'd say "lost one box due to hardware failure" is on the customer, "lost the whole damn service" is definitely on the provider [16:14]
* rithm is now known as jcpham [16:17]
* assbot gives voice to jcpham [16:18]
jcpham ^ this is such a pain in the ass [16:19]
trinque what is [16:19]
jcpham anyways I'm glad i had bitvps qm destroy my vm months ago [16:19]
fluffypony trinque: no backups is the norm, just ask usagi [16:19]
trinque !s backups [16:20]
assbot 166 results for 'backups' : [16:20]
fluffypony jcpham: are you in serious mode or back to your old nick for shits and giggles? [16:20]
jcpham i find it seriously a pita to get voiced [16:21]
trinque :''( [16:21]
jcpham i'm awol until i setup another bnc which is never [16:21]
trinque curl ... | gpg --decrypt is so hard [16:21]
jcpham super [16:21]
trinque I am being entirely sarcastic [16:21]
trinque it takes me all of 10sec [16:21]
jcpham i'm counting down the moments before i /part because freenode might split [16:21]
* jcpham already gets enough weird emails without the threat of an ip disclosure by accident [16:22]
trinque so sasl [16:23]
trinque these are all trivial problems [16:23]
fluffypony jcpham: just use IRC cloud, I mean I trust you aren't saying anything super sensitive on Freenode anyway [16:23]
jcpham funny story about bitvps, the first day i joined irc rg ipwhois'd my netblock and starting looking up my ASN and doing research on me [16:23]
jcpham and that was my intro to bitcoin [16:23]
fluffypony classic rapeghost [16:24]
jcpham oh neat xchat has an sasl thingy [16:26]
* Xuthus has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [16:27]
* jcpham (~skeet@unaffiliated/rithm) has left #bitcoin-assets ("Leaving") [16:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7125 @ 0.00050101 = 3.5697 BTC [-] [16:39]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [16:47]
* MobGod has quit (Quit: bl) [17:04]
* airgapped (~airgapped@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:09]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [17:11]
jurov kek [17:12]
assbot Hillary adopts new ‘goth’ look to appeal to youth   — The Dandy Goat ... ( ) [17:12]
trinque We were hemorrhaging support to that [expletive] hippie Bernie Sanders << top kek [17:13]
* airgapped has quit (Quit: leaving) [17:16]
* NewLiberty ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36400 @ 0.00050041 = 18.2149 BTC [-] {3} [17:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17557 @ 0.00050101 = 8.7962 BTC [+] {3} [18:16]
ben_vulpes > airgapped@ip [18:24]
BingoBoingo [18:26]
assbot MU jolted by LBC discrimination – The Maneater ... ( ) [18:26]
BingoBoingo << Fucking Hamiltonians [18:29]
assbot ... ( ) [18:29]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:30]
BingoBoingo [18:31]
assbot Students protest Thomas Jefferson statue, call for its removal | Local | ... ( ) [18:31]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [18:35]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00049975 = 10.5447 BTC [-] {3} [18:50]
* DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:50]
BingoBoingo "We are told to believe that transsexuals were born that way, intermediate in gender. Yet a striking fraction of the most publicized cases in recent years have been men who were quite masculine in their 20s. (It’s been noted that Jenner and several other famous transsexuals are Republicans or Libertarians.)" << [18:54]
assbot The Republican Drug - Taki's Magazine ... ( ) [18:54]
jurov er.. and cissexuals aren't masculine? [18:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00049967 = 2.8481 BTC [-] [18:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69917 @ 0.00049823 = 34.8347 BTC [-] {4} [19:01]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [19:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21236 @ 0.00049622 = 10.5377 BTC [-] [19:12]
* HostFat ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:13]
BingoBoingo er.. and cissexuals aren't masculine? << Who knows anymore. [19:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57850 @ 0.00050106 = 28.9863 BTC [+] {3} [19:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79400 @ 0.00049236 = 39.0934 BTC [-] {3} [20:15]
ben_vulpes << ahehuehahahaehuaheha [20:24]
assbot I Broke Bitcoin | Motherboard ... ( ) [20:24]
mod6 So not sure what happened yesterday, but my bitcoin v0.5.4-TEST2 died yesterday while I wasn't looking. [20:24]
mod6 It /had/ been keeping sync for over 2 months. [20:24]
ben_vulpes jordan pearson: you have no business writing about bitcoin [20:24]
mod6 Def didn't run out of disk space or anything. And I don't see anything insane in the logs. [20:25]
* deedbot- ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:25]
* assbot gives voice to deedbot- [20:25]
ben_vulpes ohai deedbot- [20:25]
mod6 I'm gonna fire it back up and see how far it is behind. [20:25]
* yhwh_ (~yhwh@unaffiliated/yhwh/x-6819798) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:25]
trinque ben_vulpes: tenyks doesn't know how to re-snag a nick :( [20:25]
* assbot gives voice to deedbot- [20:26]
ben_vulpes mod6: interdasting, mine crapped out last night too [20:26]
mod6 hmm. [20:27]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:27]
BingoBoingo OOM crash? [20:27]
* yhwh__ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [20:29]
mod6 height=377906 [20:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73953 @ 0.00050197 = 37.1222 BTC [+] {6} [20:30]
mod6 i didn't see any messages like that. nothing weird in the logs. just stopped at one point. [20:31]
mod6 After I restarted it did an immediate REORGANIZE [20:32]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [20:32]
mod6 its catching up now... [20:35]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [20:35]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [20:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4590 @ 0.00050443 = 2.3153 BTC [+] [20:38]
mircea_popescu just from my bad memory - it started as joint venture of an underage admin and other person who was supposed to actually pay bills <<< we don't even know wtf it all was, but hard drugs appear retrosepctively to have been involved. [20:38]
mircea_popescu << better than requiring them to take basic fucking math. [20:41]
assbot Columbia Daily Tribune | Columbia Missouri: Education ... ( ) [20:41]
BingoBoingo I jsut can't believe they are vandalizing the Thomas Jefferson statue and the original Jefferson Grave marker [20:41]
mircea_popescu who needs math just as long as they know the obese aren't people, transgender is just the sign of an overactive imagination, all women are lezzies and so forth. [20:41]
mircea_popescu jordan pearson: you have no business writing about bitcoin <<< or reading vice. [20:42]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo hm ? [20:42]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: There's a Thomas Jefferson statue on campus along with his original grave marker. As part of outrage over a group of people overhear someone say nigger in a phone conversation, Social Justice Whale Hamiltonians want the statue and the grave marker removed. [20:44]
mircea_popescu ... [20:45]
mircea_popescu and this matters because ? [20:45]
mircea_popescu o wait, the hamplanet mobility solution providers are actually gonna do it ? [20:45]
BingoBoingo Because SJWhales aren't supposed to have this kind of power in Missouri. I thought being in Missouri gave them other things to be outraged about. [20:46]
BingoBoingo They might. [20:46]
BingoBoingo The might remove it because a group overheard some drunk's phone conversation. [20:46]
mircea_popescu where's the "Thomas Jeffersson thinks niggers suck" campaign. [20:47]
mircea_popescu srsly, what the fuck are young adults doing over there. [20:48]
mircea_popescu every teen everywhere knows the right response to outrage is escalation. [20:48]
mircea_popescu except these droolbodies. [20:48]
BingoBoingo Seriously. Or the "this sidewalk is too high traffic for yall to park your scooty puffs" [20:51]
BingoBoingo Apparently since I left there's a Libtard "Let's get rid of all the nice things" movement that sprung up [20:52]
* HostFat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [20:54]
mircea_popescu this blatter saga is something else. [20:59]
BingoBoingo The don't like the Jefferson monuments, they don't like the Research Reactor [20:59]
BingoBoingo Blatter is something else. [21:00]
mircea_popescu i mean i get it, usg interest can't push asad out, etc. [21:00]
mircea_popescu but they can't even push the fifa guy out ? [21:00]
mircea_popescu da fuck is next. [21:00]
BingoBoingo Next is prolly can't push the IOC out [21:00]
mircea_popescu "usg fails to push its out shit out of its own rectum, send halp!" [21:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.00048894 = 30.0454 BTC [-] [21:01]
BingoBoingo [21:03]
assbot BREAKING: Ellmers Affair Reporting Leads to #KevinMcCarthy Departure - GotNews ... ( ) [21:03]
mircea_popescu yaimsure. [21:05]
mircea_popescu obscure.derp reporting leads to things! [21:05]
BingoBoingo Fuck only knows anymore [21:06]
BingoBoingo They also got this though [21:07]
assbot BREAKING: IDs First Department of Justice Employee on #AshleyMadison - GotNews ... ( ) [21:07]
BingoBoingo "Here’s the first: Assistant U.S. Attorney Martin S. Bell. He’s based in New York and used Ashley Madison at work. He works for the controversial U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara." [21:07]
mircea_popescu pretty cool, but... how exactly did they "get" it. public is public. [21:11]
BingoBoingo Yeah, like all the other Ashley Madison stuff. [21:12]
BingoBoingo Starting with Bharara's office was a nice touch, but a lot of trying hard [21:13]
mod6 ok node is all caught up [21:13]
BingoBoingo I'm jsut wondering though why they have javascript from fucking coinbase on their page [21:13]
mircea_popescu srsly. [21:14]
mircea_popescu anyway, can't hurt to make contact. who knows, maybe only superficially stupid. [21:14]
BingoBoingo Eh, I'll keep digging in the news mines and look for stuff while I think about it. [21:16]
* menahem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) [21:16]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 i saw nothing anomalous on my remaining node... plz post your log at time of crash ? [21:17]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:17]
asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 also check system log for segfault, and post that, if found. [21:18]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:18]
mircea_popescu ;;google مارتیا خوار [21:23]
gribble Manticore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Manticore - Mythology Wiki: ; Manticore - The Castlevania Wiki - Wikia: [21:23]
mircea_popescu ha! [21:24]
mod6 ok asciilifeform will look [21:25]
mod6 221M messages [21:31]
mod6 looks like i sustained a port 22 attack over the last 3 days. [21:31]
mod6 that might have had an impact. [21:31]
mircea_popescu lol! [21:32]
mircea_popescu now i gotta look. [21:32]
mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats [21:33]
gribble Current Blocks: 378066 | Current Difficulty: 6.0813224039440346E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 379007 | Next Difficulty In: 941 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 17 hours, 18 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [21:33]
mircea_popescu nothing here. up to date, 100 conns. [21:33]
mod6 nice. ok, might have just been me. [21:33]
mod6 87825 attempts on ssh since Oct 1st. [21:34]
mod6 that actually doesn't seem like that many. [21:34]
* menahem (~menahem@unaffiliated/menahem) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:36]
mircea_popescu always an idea to move ssh and lock that port. [21:38]
mod6 ^ [21:53]
* punkman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:53]
* punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:54]
mod6 beware: this is ~10Mb [21:55]
mod6 asciilifeform: [21:56]
assbot ... ( ) [21:56]
mod6 oh guess i was wrong, wasn't 377906, was: height=377901 [21:57]
mod6 my bad. [21:57]
asciilifeform mod6: nothing interesting here [22:07]
asciilifeform mod6: any segfault ? [22:07]
mod6 not that I saw, no. [22:07]
* NewLiberty ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:08]
mod6 nothing in logs, or in terminal stderr or whatnot. [22:08]
asciilifeform << and since no one seems to have picked up on what this means, i suppose i must now draw a picture. [22:08]
assbot Logged on 08-10-2015 18:22:39; ascii_field: and in other nyooz, [22:08]
asciilifeform section 12.2 of rfc4880 sayeth, [22:08]
asciilifeform 'A V4 fingerprint is the 160-bit SHA-1 hash of the octet 0x99, followed by the two-octet packet length, followed by the entire Public-Key packet starting with the version field. The Key ID is the low-order 64 bits of the fingerprint.' [22:09]
asciilifeform do i need to carry on, or is it clear ? [22:09]
* dexX7 has quit (Quit: Leaving) [22:10]
* rdymac has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [22:12]
mircea_popescu if you're intimating someone's going to create a sha-1 collision and thereby obtain a key that hashes to the collision, you're exaggerating justalittle. [22:13]
mircea_popescu otherwise yes, gpg is, and remains, slated for replacement. [22:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cost of a sha1 collision is less than a year of schmuck pay at this point. [22:14]
mircea_popescu yes, but that's still not a key. [22:14]
asciilifeform it'll be a 'key' [22:14]
mircea_popescu not any string of bits is a key tho [22:15]
asciilifeform notice that 'the entire Public-Key packet' leaves plenty of tweakable bits on top of the modulus [22:15]
mircea_popescu true. [22:16]
asciilifeform so, generate something like a reasonable modulus, and then proceed. [22:16]
mircea_popescu you can calculate your chances of succeeding right now. [22:16]
asciilifeform notice that the length of the packet is not even bounded [22:16]
mircea_popescu they're unsplendid. [22:16]
mircea_popescu (but we did do a campaighn of updating from sha-1 about last year, for digests etc) [22:16]
asciilifeform sure. but this does nothing for key fp. [22:17]
asciilifeform which is hardcoded to sha1.. [22:17]
mircea_popescu the only scenario that does anything in, is when one acquires a key from dubious source. [22:17]
asciilifeform thing is, let's recall how key familiarity works right now. e.g., mircea_popescu's business card. [22:19]
asciilifeform it does not contain the modulus he signs with. only bottom 64b of the sha1 of.... [22:19]
mircea_popescu aha. [22:19]
mircea_popescu the pupose of the business card is to filter contacts tho. [22:20]
asciilifeform point being, gpg --keyserver wherever.the.fuck --recv-key 0xfingerprint can now return magical key. [22:20]
asciilifeform the chore that everybody here has been putting off into indefinite future - that of ~actually distributing one's entire modulus~ - is a necessary thing. [22:21]
* mircea_popescu distributes his pubkey off his blog. [22:22]
mircea_popescu the "chore" of having and maintaining blogs is NOT negotiable. you must, you MUST be your own facebook washington post vice gawker etc. [22:22]
* asciilifeform also [22:22]
mircea_popescu this was never negotiable. [22:22]
asciilifeform there are folks in wot who have neglected this. [22:23]
mircea_popescu these also tend to be folks for whom this bullet won't likely be fired. [22:23]
* DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( )) [22:23]
mircea_popescu it's expensive, and foer that matter - we've yet to see this wonder in the wild. [22:23]
mircea_popescu so far we're at the "one mirrored moduls" [22:24]
mircea_popescu oh, speaking of which... [22:24]
mircea_popescu Naphex you ever got that quote ? [22:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: << contains, iirc, example of collision [22:26]
assbot cooperpair/pgpv4 at master · coruus/cooperpair · GitHub ... ( ) [22:26]
asciilifeform (how found - not specified) [22:26]
asciilifeform << mainly interesting for having been deleted from the ml [22:29]
assbot how close is OpenPGP tied to SHA1 ... ( ) [22:29]
mod6 ok, updated with my pubkey. [22:29]
asciilifeform where does btcalpha get its pubkeys ? [22:32]
asciilifeform how about assbot? [22:32]
asciilifeform as to where the bullet might be aimed, the phuctor dataset suggests a certain pattern [22:34]
mircea_popescu deleted ?! [22:35]
asciilifeform aha, hence '' [22:35]
mircea_popescu assbot and btcalpha get them from servers (older implementations) ; deedbot- gets them correctly (you gotta supply the dpaste with it) [22:35]
asciilifeform pattern: folks who 1) are somehow interesting (german number theorists, etc) 2) have a very threadbare, if at all present, volume of published signed material 3) communicate their key to other people largely in the form of a fingerprint [22:35]
mircea_popescu 2 really reads like "idiots" to me. [22:36]
mircea_popescu folk who think they're too damned important to irc, blog etc. [22:36]
mircea_popescu "oh, that's hearn's job" [22:36]
mircea_popescu yes, fucktard, let it be hearn's job. next you'll be fed by cockroaches. it's their job to move food around. [22:37]
asciilifeform !b 1 [22:37]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [22:37]
asciilifeform but i disagree that folks who largely listen, and seldom talk, are necessarily 'idiot' [22:37]
asciilifeform if anything, the net needs more, rather than fewer, of them [22:38]
mircea_popescu do you know what the term meant, originally ? [22:38]
asciilifeform sure. those bedeviled with... ideas [22:38]
mircea_popescu notrly. pretty much exactly : doesn't talk much. sorta eternally amazed. [22:39]
mircea_popescu deaf&dumb being the other kind. [22:40]
asciilifeform there are also people who are not really mute by any reasonable definition but this one. e.g., knuth [22:40]
asciilifeform large volume of material, afaik none of it signed. [22:40]
mircea_popescu sadly. [22:40]
asciilifeform they then are the targets. [22:40]
asciilifeform for this bullet. [22:40]
asciilifeform and anyone else who'd make a satisfying splat. [22:41]
asciilifeform the point i wanted to make is that the original attitude of 'keys are people' was predicated on ideally 'stiff' keys [22:42]
asciilifeform really, it is 'key plus body of signed material' is a man. [22:42]
mircea_popescu yes. [22:42]
asciilifeform and this still is predicated on an assumption, to date unproven, that rsa sig operation is not malleable. [22:43]
mircea_popescu it certainlty is malleable (provably so) [22:43]
asciilifeform (it is conceivable that one might produce a key which will verify mircea_popescu's signed body of works, but which, if encrypted to, resulting ciphertext could be read both by mircea_popescu AND by hitler.) [22:43]
mircea_popescu supposedly not ~usefully~ malleable. [22:43]
mircea_popescu this is not conceivable. [22:43]
asciilifeform solely because rfc2440/4880 is retarded [22:44]
asciilifeform not on account of rsa per se. [22:44]
BingoBoingo << In other news Google struggles to get up to qntra's mobile friendly design [22:44]
mircea_popescu it IS however conceivable that a pubkey might be created which carries the fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452 but if used to encrypt to mp will respond with "this doesn't decrypt wtf did you do". which event will be very interesting to see . [22:44]
assbot amphtml/ at master · ampproject/amphtml · GitHub ... ( ) [22:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: except the ideal scenario for firing this weapon is precisely a case where the resulting message never reaches mircea_popescu [22:45]
asciilifeform instead it'd be a funkspiel between hitler and mr schmuck, the latter having believed that he is speaking to mircea_popescu [22:45]
mircea_popescu right. [22:46]
mircea_popescu except, i do not normally expect to be spoken to by people i do not know. [22:46]
asciilifeform aha. [22:46]
asciilifeform but if knuth wants to write in - then tough cookies. [22:46]
asciilifeform or al schwartz [22:46]
asciilifeform et al. [22:46]
mircea_popescu they are too old to be alive anymore, is the sad truth of the matter. [22:47]
mircea_popescu they may only survive as dead people./ [22:47]
asciilifeform the part that bugs me is that the fundamental premise of public key crypto is a kind of downer [22:47]
mircea_popescu how you mean ? [22:47]
asciilifeform that is, the idea was that it is not necessary to meet in the flesh to form a working relation [22:47]
asciilifeform (if you can meet in the flesh, you could exchange one time pads just as well) [22:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42900 @ 0.00050442 = 21.6396 BTC [+] {2} [22:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what happened to the third ? [22:48]
mircea_popescu the ONLY way to meet new people is via recommendation. [22:48]
* gernika (~awt@unaffiliated/gernika) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:48]
mircea_popescu "talk to this guy - here's his php" [22:48]
mircea_popescu pgp* [22:48]
asciilifeform also works. [22:49]
mircea_popescu no. not also. [22:49]
* King_Rex has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [22:49]
mircea_popescu this is the only thing that owkrs, or ever has worked. [22:49]
mircea_popescu this is what gossipd is built upon, also. [22:49]
asciilifeform 'here is me, and this is my pgp' also works, is what i meant. [22:49]
mircea_popescu there is nothing else. in very particular, there is NOT this bullshit star pattern of "everyone reads vice". [22:49]
asciilifeform aha [22:49]
mircea_popescu the deep fundamental reason usg exists needs to go away. not merely the usg, or preet bharara's head. [22:49]
mircea_popescu the notion that people may read "newpspaers" made by people they don't know. [22:50]
asciilifeform the basic result here is that pgptronium is conserved, if you will. [22:50]
mircea_popescu this is rank nonsense, and the cornerstone of stupidworld. [22:50]
mircea_popescu trust is conserved. yes. [22:50]
asciilifeform the one thing remaining to add is that, theoretically, it is not necessary to distribute pubkeys at all! [22:51]
asciilifeform because they can be derived from signed material [22:51]
asciilifeform with a modest expenditure of cpu. [22:51]
mircea_popescu some people don't sign so much. [22:51]
asciilifeform they are candidates for the treatment described earlier. [22:51]
mircea_popescu but an extractor is a fundamental tool, yes. [22:52]
* asciilifeform has intended to produce one for a long while, but it is not a priority presently [22:52]
* punkman has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:55]
* punkman (~punkman@unaffiliated/punkman) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:55]
asciilifeform my original observation, though, stands - the time to stop thinking of pgp 64bit fp as 'the man' is not when arbitrarily colliding sha1 costs a penny! it is now. [22:56]
asciilifeform other thing is, the problem goes a little deeper. one might craft, for instance, a filter which eats mircea_popescu's www and substitutes hitlerine signatures for all of the signatures contained therein. [22:58]
asciilifeform and the matching hitler key, for the key normally appearing in [22:58]
assbot Contact : PGP on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [22:58]
mircea_popescu there aren't any signatures contained therein. [22:58]
asciilifeform deedbot, then [22:59]
mircea_popescu but herein the problem gets fractured. how many things does it need to filter ? [22:59]
asciilifeform this of course demonstrates the point mircea_popescu made earlier, whereby no one who he was not properly introduced to, could ever hope to escape this. [22:59]
mircea_popescu (turns out mp deliberately isn't keeoping the pobkey and the signerd material in the same place. har har who knew! ) [22:59]
mircea_popescu i said and i repeated there';s major value to jointing the wot early. to the point that it was throughout the greatest gift one could give his rest of his life. [23:00]
mircea_popescu yes, this was, and perhaps still is true. [23:01]
mircea_popescu as you say, the time to join the wot isn't when sha-1 collisions cost a penny. [23:01]
asciilifeform no mega-shocking result - pgp is not a magical fountain of phree-energy-style 'trust from the aether', but rather an amplifier of trust established - to some extent - in the meat. [23:01]
mircea_popescu there is no pill for fixing late adopter lameness. [23:01]
asciilifeform the other thing is, to the extent that the integrity of the wot as we now have it is predicated on sha1 not costing a penny to break, some of the sweat that went in to forming the wot may end up having to be re-sweated [23:02]
mircea_popescu the people who went to oregon first, got homesteads. the people who go now - get to pay rent. [23:02]
mircea_popescu there still is time. [23:03]
phf oh hey i wrote a poc for pgp filter at toorcon, when that other wifi mitm came out. no need to figure out what's where, just sit on the http stream, catch text/*, grep it for gpg headers, and then rewrite on the fly [23:03]
* yhwh_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [23:04]
asciilifeform phf: this only leads to laughs unless you can somehow be there for the rest of the two would-be pen pals' lives [23:04]
asciilifeform sitting between them [23:04]
mircea_popescu yes, rewerite, but with what. [23:04]
phf asciilifeform: of course [23:05]
asciilifeform 'quod licet' usg 'non licet bovi' (tm) [23:05]
mircea_popescu doing this is actually a strategic mistake i'd be more than happy to see executed. [23:06]
asciilifeform let's picture, say, an isis beheading is held on top of a banner containing an fp [23:06]
mircea_popescu exponential costs. modest benefits. very much in line with all the other bad choices that sunk the ship of state. [23:06]
mircea_popescu has this ever happened ? [23:06]
asciilifeform not afaik [23:06]
asciilifeform but i suggested it some months ago, and so it is conceivable that it will. [23:07]
mircea_popescu let's picture a unicorn raping a lolipop ? [23:07]
mircea_popescu mmm. [23:07]
phf mircea_popescu: back then it was kek, these days i could probably get a hackernews frontpage "fundamental vulnerability found in gnupg, no one is safe!" either way completely irrelevant. just reminded me, it was 2005 or so [23:08]
asciilifeform the fundamental issue that bothers me is that a broken hash is where 'protocol' begins to decay into 'promise' [23:08]
asciilifeform systems which rely on a hash, ultimately contain trace elements of 'promise' [23:08]
mircea_popescu a hash is a fundamental building block of crypto [23:09]
asciilifeform the weaker the hash, the more 'promise' and less 'protocol'. [23:09]
asciilifeform hash is the proverbial 'hole through which the night walks in' [23:09]
mircea_popescu you can't really have pneumatics without valves. [23:09]
asciilifeform tesla begs to differ [23:09]
mircea_popescu and yes, valves is what always fucking breaks. [23:09]
asciilifeform (he had a whole host of motionless pneumatic building blocks based on vortices) [23:10]
mircea_popescu no wonder dupont had him killed. [23:10]
asciilifeform and to that we have analogy: the pure-rsa variant [23:10]
asciilifeform where nothing needs to be hashed. [23:10]
asciilifeform and symmetric crypto is also not made use of. [23:10]
* mircea_popescu believes he proposed this originally. [23:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu did propose putting it to battlefield use [23:11]
mircea_popescu but i am reserved as to the hashlessness [23:11]
asciilifeform normally everybody proposes it and then writes it off as 'we haven't the cpu or the entropy' [23:11]
asciilifeform 'and passing moduli around bloats messages' [23:12]
asciilifeform thing re: hashes is that every hash, being a many-to-one function, is by definition guaranteed to collide. [23:12]
asciilifeform the only question concerns the difficulty of finding said collisions [23:12]
asciilifeform and in most cases it is not in any way knowable. [23:12]
asciilifeform today - gigabux, tomorrow - penny (pointedly ~not~ because of any advance in cpu, but on account of mathematical efforts) [23:13]
asciilifeform in ~that~ sense alone, a hash is a cheque drawn on a total unknown. [23:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92700 @ 0.00048955 = 45.3813 BTC [-] [23:14]
mircea_popescu myeah. [23:15]
mircea_popescu oh, btw, phf you ain't ever gonna collect your eulora prize ? [23:15]
phf mircea_popescu: will do around saturday. i'm still in transit, so no working client [23:16]
mircea_popescu ah k [23:16]
mircea_popescu whenever i hear of someone saying they're in transit i always picture a person inside an intestine. [23:16]
phf well, i'm on amtrak, so might as well be [23:17]
* asciilifeform thinks 'sic transit gloria mundi' [23:17]
mircea_popescu why don't you fly ? [23:17]
phf inertia, there was a point when amtrak was also inexpensive in addition to being cheap [23:18]
mircea_popescu nothing but terrorists in this chan i swear. [23:19]
mircea_popescu but i gotta say "why don't you fly" "inertia" is a damned good answer. [23:19]
mircea_popescu whenever something doesn't fly that's usually why [23:19]
phf mp gets them every time [23:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform how is unpadded rsa supposed to work ? [23:22]
asciilifeform the 'padding' thing is an entirely separate animal [23:22]
mircea_popescu from hashing ? [23:22]
asciilifeform yes [23:23]
mircea_popescu ... [23:23]
phf i'm waiting for this channel to catch up with me, i'm going to go through some routine dc check, like a metal scanner or security clearance, and it's going to be "step this way sir." some gruff looking gentleman holding b-a printouts.. [23:23]
mircea_popescu they're fucking inverse functions. one does many-to-one, the other needs an arbitrary bytecount. [23:23]
asciilifeform phf: nah it'll be quick and humane, more of a michael hastings sort of affair. [23:23]
mircea_popescu phf link them to the place where ytou said you're against sedition. [23:23]
mod6 that might have been a different d00d [23:24]
asciilifeform iirc it was midnightmagic [23:24]
mircea_popescu what, different dood on the internet ? [23:24]
mircea_popescu what is this. [23:24]
mod6 haha. i recall there was a guy before phf's time that was like, "i can't hang in here! too much sedition!" or something [23:25]
mircea_popescu been a bunch of those. [23:25]
mod6 fair enough [23:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'padding' is a misnomer for a variety of possible processes, all of which have the objective of making sure that a message is never close in phase-space to another plausible message [23:26]
asciilifeform (and especially not close in the phase space of cryptographic malleability, for the kind of crypto in use) [23:26]
mircea_popescu [23:26]
assbot over 18? ... ( ) [23:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha. [23:26]
mircea_popescu but just as far as the general principle goes. how are you going to do "padding" w/o hashing ? [23:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: can do a one-to-many permutation. [23:28]
asciilifeform yes, expensive. [23:28]
mircea_popescu and moreover, just as bad as hashing. [23:28]
asciilifeform mno. [23:28]
mircea_popescu provably mno or just mno. [23:28]
asciilifeform whaddayamean, i gotta prove [23:28]
* asciilifeform now will have to prove, pissed [23:29]
mircea_popescu heh mkay. [23:29]
asciilifeform l0l [23:29]
* asciilifeform goes off to eat dinner before it dies a 2nd time [23:29]
mircea_popescu and more-moreover, your one-to-manyh permutation will be implemented as a hash fun ction. [23:29]
mircea_popescu laters. [23:29]
deedbot- [Trilema] La Chacarita - [23:38]
mod6 ah cool, you got a chance to walk through there! [23:40]
mod6 eh, maybe not the same place [23:42]
mod6 lol during kindergarten years [23:45]
mod6 arg! i gotta finish the documentation on this thing so i can play new eulora! [23:54]
Category: Logs
Comments feed : RSS 2.0. Leave your own comment below, or send a trackback.
Add your cents! »
    If this is your first comment, it will wait to be approved. This usually takes a few hours. Subsequent comments are not delayed.