Forum logs for 08 Feb 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu !up benjamindees [00:00]
-assbot- You voiced benjamindees for 30 minutes. [00:00]
* assbot gives voice to benjamindees [00:00]
benjamindees meth is a hell of a drug [00:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87900 @ 0.00042125 = 37.0279 BTC [-] [00:01]
mircea_popescu you starting silk road 5.0 ? [00:01]
benjamindees since I'm not the CIA... no [00:01]
benjamindees I was referring to Hitler. [00:02]
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mircea_popescu and to add to that, hearst & co were DEFINITELY pro hitler. [00:03]
mircea_popescu heck, ford even got decorated for it. [00:03]
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mircea_popescu benjamindees iirc he did cocaine, not really meth [00:04]
asciilifeform morell fed him both on occasions [00:06]
asciilifeform this is, iirc, well-established. [00:06]
asciilifeform 3mw gensets << those, one can get in zimbabwe [00:07]
asciilifeform just a bus without wheels, really [00:07]
asciilifeform scientific instruments - different ballgame. [00:07]
mircea_popescu except they CANT be had in the us. [00:08]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the value of ME running pogos is minimal. there are N+k**p things i can d << lol, we know these were for friends, not mircea_popescu's house [00:09]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: except they CANT be had in the us << tell that to kanzure, or any of the ten thousand folks like asciilifeform but moar-loaded. [00:09]
asciilifeform ebay hunting for usg surplus tech is a national sport. [00:10]
mircea_popescu if tomorrow your street loses power, you can't simply ordered a truck without wheels dropped in front of your property. for various pseudolegal and regtulatory reasons that essentrialy reduce to [00:10]
mircea_popescu "zek may not use or display power" [00:10]
asciilifeform lol! everybody on the street (but me, apparently) owns a genset [00:10]
mircea_popescu mebbe i am confused as to how things actually work thar. [00:10]
asciilifeform perhaps in some ultra-fascist locale like Mass.? [00:10]
mircea_popescu is wash dc different ? [00:10]
asciilifeform or san fran [00:10]
benjamindees yeah, you can find a large military surplus generator for cheap, but 3MW is pretty large [00:11]
* asciilifeform lives outside the city limits of wash.d.c. proper [00:11]
mircea_popescu oh well then obv., [00:11]
asciilifeform 3MW is a railroad car. [00:11]
mircea_popescu not these days, notrly. [00:11]
mircea_popescu engines have apparently improved drastically. [00:11]
asciilifeform engine+tank [00:12]
asciilifeform quite a few office parks around here have gensets. through a quirk of bureaucracy, they were made mandatory at one point [00:12]
asciilifeform normally only connected to hallway lights & elevators, though. [00:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not at all what i mean. [00:12]
mircea_popescu i mean order. not prepared. order. when you feel like. [00:13]
mircea_popescu drop in street. on curb. [00:13]
mircea_popescu this is the important part here. not that "in principle could be had" [00:13]
asciilifeform we have those too. typically found at construction sites. [00:13]
mircea_popescu "could be had when you decide, on your own terms" [00:13]
asciilifeform advertised for rental, like bulldozers & excavators. [00:13]
mircea_popescu aha so same thing then [00:13]
* asciilifeform has not priced [00:13]
asciilifeform but wanted to point to the difference between a ubiquitous piece of construction equipment (SOP for electric welders at large sites) and something like a 6-axis cnc mill [00:14]
asciilifeform or ir spectrometer [00:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the thing is, argentina-chinese trade relations are about as close as us-canada [00:15]
mircea_popescu if the chinese make it, it can be had here. [00:15]
* asciilifeform can picture this [00:16]
mircea_popescu in fact argentina is about as close you can get to china without having to fuck azn looking women. [00:16]
* asciilifeform does not often have praise for usa, but cannot deny that it is a first-class graveyard for surplus golden toilet tech - e.g., machines like the 'tecan 200' (see ancient thread) originally costing 1/3 $mil can be had for ~5-10k usd, etc. [00:17]
asciilifeform to the point that the limiting factor is finding climate-controlled floor space for them [00:18]
mircea_popescu now that sort of thing is probably a lot iffier. [00:18]
mircea_popescu obviously a scavenger civilisation will hafta be built on top of the previous cities. [00:18]
* asciilifeform goes off to check on roaring propane heater; if water bottle thawed, workshop is habitable [00:19]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: do you use radiant or forced air? [00:20]
benjamindees asciilifeform, my surplus junk lives outside /shrug [00:20]
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mircea_popescu "Kipling is in the peculiar position of having been a byword for fifty years. During five literary generations every enlightened person has despised him, and at the end of that time nine-tenths of those enlightened persons are forgotten and Kipling is in some sense still there." [00:21]
mircea_popescu bwahaha [00:21]
mircea_popescu "It is no use pretending that Kipling's view of life, as a whole, can be accepted or even forgiven by any civilized person. It is no use claiming, for instance, that when Kipling describes a British soldier beating a 'nigger' with a cleaning rod in order to get money out of him, he is acting merely as a reporter and does not necessarily approve what he describes. There is not the slightest sign anywhere in Kipling's wo [00:22]
mircea_popescu rk that he disapproves of that kind of conduct–on the contrary, there is a definite strain of sadism in him, over and above the brutality which a writer of that type has to have. Kipling is a jingo imperialist, he is morally insensitive and aesthetically disgusting. It is better to start by admitting that, and then to try to find out why it is that he survives while the refined people who have sniggered at him seem t [00:22]
mircea_popescu o wear so badly." [00:22]
mircea_popescu there you go, asciilifeform, re the orwellworm thread. he perfectly well knows what the problem is. [00:22]
mircea_popescu "how dare man live like man! UNFORGIVABRU!!!1" [00:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104041 @ 0.00041927 = 43.6213 BTC [-] {2} [00:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82000 @ 0.00041061 = 33.67 BTC [-] [01:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179200 @ 0.00040825 = 73.1584 BTC [-] {4} [01:13]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: radiant or forced air << yard shed. portable furnace thing. [01:24]
asciilifeform ;;bc,stats [01:25]
gribble Current Blocks: 342511 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 208 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 7 hours, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44950465076.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.91043 [01:26]
asciilifeform 308821. [01:26]
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asciilifeform !s gettrust assbot benjamindees [01:29]
assbot 0 results for 'gettrust assbot benjamindees' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gettrust+assbot+benjamindees [01:29]
asciilifeform !gettrust assbot benjamindees [01:30]
assbot benjamindees is not registered in WoT. [01:30]
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thestringpuller ;;tslb [01:32]
gribble Time since last block: 12 minutes and 21 seconds [01:33]
decimation re: generators < the power is so unreliable in many areas on the east coast that many folks have a propane or natural gas powered generator permanently installed at their house [01:33]
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asciilifeform those who don't, typically own a small (5-10kW) genset on wheels [01:34]
asciilifeform except for poor schmucks who live in flats, those sit out mains outages in their cars. [01:34]
decimation re: 3mw genset < yeah that's basically a diesel-electric locomotive [01:35]
decimation the military has generators in a 'standard container' [01:35]
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decimation asciilifeform: I have a small 2 kw job that runs on propane, to run essentials 'just in case' [01:35]
decimation why propane? can be stored for a decade; doesn't leave nasty shit in the engine [01:35]
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decimation generator container >> http://www.generatorcontainer.com/gallery1.htm << even has price in bezzlars! [01:37]
assbot Generator Container Industrial Diesel Containers ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsloGV ) [01:37]
decimation ah but those come sans generator [01:37]
decimation at any rate, perfectly common industrial tool [01:38]
decimation re: law enforcement deserts < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8sEJq3jR4 < gentlemen shooting various objects (including propane tank) in the middle of the freakin' desert [01:46]
assbot CZ 7.62x39 vs. Coleman Propane Tank - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IsnJ4C ) [01:46]
asciilifeform the candle - cheating! [01:49]
cazalla why the demand for s.qntr? [01:51]
decimation asciilifeform: heh yeah [01:51]
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mircea_popescu !up bitcoinquestinos [02:14]
-assbot- You voiced bitcoinquestinos for 30 minutes. [02:14]
* assbot gives voice to bitcoinquestinos [02:14]
bitcoinquestinos thanks man, what is this IRC? I read about it in a blog post [02:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> those who don't, typically own a small (5-10kW) genset on wheels << i have no idea what this would do. suppose a 2kw air conditioner unit, or fridge, or even washing machine. [02:15]
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mircea_popescu capacitive charge being what it is, the 2kw would serve for what exactly ? [02:15]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos irc is a way to talk to people [02:15]
mircea_popescu !up BlueMatt [02:15]
-assbot- You voiced BlueMatt for 30 minutes. [02:15]
* assbot gives voice to BlueMatt [02:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they typically have surge rating of 5-7x [02:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the generators ? [02:16]
decimation mircea_popescu: yeah can't run a/c but you could run fridge [02:16]
bitcoinquestinos mircea_popescu: I know I'm asking what is the purpose of this IRC? [02:16]
mircea_popescu decimation depending on the fridge. i think they make gen friendlier models now. [02:16]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos this is where bitcoin happens. [02:16]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but what're they used for: typically stands between user and death from exposure. runs furnace blower/igniter in the cold months; a window ac unit in summer; fridge, a few lights, etc. [02:16]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah, if it's all resistive charge it's useful. [02:17]
decimation yeah if you have a gas furnace, and you can run the blower, you can save your house water lines from freezing [02:17]
mircea_popescu otherwise i dunno what household can be run on 5kw (bottlenecked at 1.5ish) [02:17]
decimation because it could take days for the incompetents to fix the power lines in poor winter weather [02:17]
asciilifeform 'skeleton' systems as described above. [02:18]
asciilifeform that's pretty much it [02:18]
mircea_popescu decimation eu mostly heats on gas, these micro units that mostly don't need power. either because battery or ingenious. [02:18]
bitcoinquestinos mircea_popescu: What do you mean? Is this a place where people find the best way to spend their bitcoins so they can hold tighter? [02:18]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos mno. i mean, when it's decided that mtgox dies, it;s decided here. [02:19]
mircea_popescu when it's decided gavin is of no further utility for bitcoin, it's decided here. [02:19]
decimation mircea_popescu: is it hydronic heat? [02:19]
mircea_popescu whenever something happens, or doesn't happen, it starts or doesn't start here. [02:19]
mircea_popescu decimation i have nfi what that is ? but no, either keep a pilot going, or w/e. [02:20]
decimation in the us gas heat is common, but typical large us house has a 'forced air' system that moves heated air around the house [02:20]
mircea_popescu decimation a yes, turns out it is! [02:20]
bitcoinquestinos mircea_propescu: Is everyone here anonymous? [02:20]
mircea_popescu nah, in europe it's a water pipes and radiators. [02:20]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos you are anonymous. i'm not. [02:20]
decimation forced air is 'cheaper' to install [02:20]
decimation otherwise it's a worse solution [02:20]
mircea_popescu not better in any sense tho. [02:20]
asciilifeform bitcoinquestinos: about half the people here have www sites with human name, contact info, etc. [02:21]
decimation yeah if all you need to do is heat boiler, then you don't need electricity [02:21]
mircea_popescu my house in timisoara, the heating system held about a ton of water in the pipes and radiative elements. took about an hour to cool a coupla degrees. [02:21]
mircea_popescu decimation you sort-of need it for the pump, but it's not so much. [02:21]
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asciilifeform about ~100W [02:21]
decimation this is very uncommon in the us, except for old homes [02:21]
* asciilifeform used to live in an early-1900s house with this type of furnace [02:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform and since it runs maybe five times a day for a quarter of an hour, battery's quite feasible. [02:22]
decimation yeah if i had to provide backup power for something like that, would use UPS [02:22]
bitcoinquestinos mircea_propescu: What makes you say when Mt gox dies it's decided here? [02:22]
asciilifeform you actually had it on batteries?! [02:22]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos history. [02:22]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform no, but then again i never had a power outage. if they happened, ups would work fine. [02:23]
mircea_popescu more expensive units come with their own batteries [02:23]
mircea_popescu (mostly for the co detector tho) [02:23]
bitcoinquestinos mircea_propescu: Can you be more specific? [02:23]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos i could, but so far i'm not particulrly inclined. the logs are in the topic, peruse at your leisure. [02:23]
decimation part of the other reason 'forced air' heat is common in the us is because air conditioning is considered to be a requirement [02:24]
mircea_popescu six months or a year down the road, we can continue this conversation in a better position. [02:24]
mircea_popescu decimation i kinda wonder why water circulating systems aren't used for cooling much. [02:24]
mircea_popescu it'd prolly work better than air systems. [02:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: condensation. [02:25]
asciilifeform among other reasons [02:25]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform condensation happens in acs too, what. [02:25]
asciilifeform there, it happens in an enclosed space, above a drain. [02:25]
decimation yeah, but it's controlled in one spot [02:25]
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mircea_popescu it doesn't have to be MUCH colder to extract heat. [02:26]
* assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal [02:26]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu clearly does not live in swampland [02:26]
asciilifeform ac is only half about heat [02:26]
mircea_popescu hm [02:26]
asciilifeform humidity is the real hell. [02:26]
mircea_popescu i guess that'd have to be it. [02:26]
decimation aye [02:26]
asciilifeform humidity is what keeps your natural 'ac' - sweat - from doing much good [02:27]
decimation also considered purely in energy efficiency terms, a 'heat pump' is most efficient for heating, and can be 'run backwards' for cooling [02:28]
asciilifeform whether a heat pump is good economics or lunacy depends on the region [02:28]
decimation the problem is that air source heat pumps can only heat down to a certain ambient temperature [02:28]
decimation aye [02:28]
decimation I have a friend who swears by the new mitsubishi air source heat pumps [02:29]
* asciilifeform had heat pump in old flat, about 1/3 the size of new house (gas furnace there), actually cost more to run the heat pump [02:29]
asciilifeform for roughly similar type of wooden hovel [02:29]
decimation they claim to heat (without resistive elements) down to 5 F [02:30]
asciilifeform natural gas is considerably cheaper, in this part of the world, than equiv. via heatpump. [02:30]
decimation asciilifeform: the heat pump was probably turning on bigass resistor for 'emergency heat' [02:30]
asciilifeform decimation: i had it configured to show precisely which mechanism was running at a given time [02:31]
asciilifeform (aftermarket controller. i take it from flat to flat) [02:31]
asciilifeform it wasn't the resistive heater [02:31]
asciilifeform but the fact that heat pump can only extract so much at a given external temp [02:31]
decimation the newer japanese units can achieve amazing coefficients of performance [02:32]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [02:32]
asciilifeform and they are to be found where in usa? warren buffett's house ? [02:32]
* kakobrekla has one [02:32]
decimation said mitsubishi unit [02:32]
decimation typically the most efficient ones are 'mini-split' systems [02:33]
decimation which would be somewhat useless in a house already fitted with ducts, granted [02:33]
* asciilifeform takes a very limited interest in exotic hvac tech, as he does not own his buildings, and never will [02:33]
decimation hvac is a particular kind of chumpatron in the usa [02:34]
bitcoinquestinos mircea_popescu: what is http://mpex.co/ [02:34]
decimation only a few factories manufacturer the equipment, and they usually only sell to 'licensed installers' [02:34]
asciilifeform and the junk is typically built to last about one decade. [02:34]
kakobrekla mitsubishi is the shit as far as these heatpumps go [02:35]
decimation kakobrekla: do you have a mini-split system? [02:35]
decimation for the interested reader, some theory on heat pumps is here: http://www.withouthotair.com/cE/page_301.shtml [02:36]
assbot Ch E Page 301: Sustainable Energy - without the hot air | David MacKay ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMBmAj ) [02:36]
mircea_popescu decimation yeah heat pumps seem a lot better deal than any alternative, yet the least commonly used. [02:37]
mircea_popescu and in principle can heat/cool to any arbitrary temperature, as long as your compressor's up to it. [02:38]
decimation well, in the case of the us (as asciilifeform mentioned) natural gas is much cheaper to install and pretty cheap to run [02:38]
mircea_popescu but gas + ac ? [02:38]
decimation yes, that's very common [02:38]
mircea_popescu but is it still cheaper, i mean. [02:38]
decimation which is kinda retarded [02:38]
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TheNewDeal ;;market sell 666 [02:39]
gribble Bitstamp | A market order to sell 666 bitcoins right now would net 148999.9978 USD and would take the last price down to 223.2300 USD, resulting in an average price of 223.7237 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0119 seconds [02:39]
kakobrekla decimation we have a heat pump for radiators and hot water for the house and for air i have a separate inverter unit with one external and two internal units. [02:39]
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mircea_popescu kako lives in the house of teh future. [02:39]
decimation kakobrekla: yeah I bet that's pretty cheap to run [02:39]
decimation but not so cheap to install [02:39]
* kakobrekla not leaving house [02:39]
mircea_popescu decimation but if one's principal equity is the house, a la us, then it makes sense. [02:40]
decimation mircea_popescu: the irony is that for many us citizens, their house is their biggest 'savings account', yet very few consider any other option than what the builder 'decided' [02:41]
mircea_popescu rather strange, n'est pas. [02:41]
mircea_popescu leaving alone the weirdness of keeping most of your capital in a nonproductive asset (hey, that's made to be through purely government interventionist means), not even pretend like you're managing it ? [02:42]
decimation well, one of the reasons that things are this way is because the 'trades' have a pretty strong chokehold on what gets done [02:43]
mircea_popescu that's another thing. hire a plumber so he tells you what to do ?! [02:43]
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bitcoinquestinos What do you guys think is the best capital to acquire? [02:43]
asciilifeform yes, gas plus ac [02:43]
asciilifeform it is typically built as a system of wall ducts/grilles and massive blower in the cellar (in my case, attic) [02:44]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestinos http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/ (2.a. of particular interest to you). [02:44]
assbot #bitcoin-assets rules and regulations pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/13Yy3yb ) [02:44]
* assbot removes voice from bitcoinquestinos [02:44]
decimation w.r.t. home builders, any home that's younger than 30-40 years has been built in a carefully-managed chumpatronic environment [02:44]
asciilifeform the blower has a steel heat exchanger inside, which is either heated with gas fires or chilled with freon loop, as the season goes [02:44]
mircea_popescu or for that matter, older than about 60. [02:44]
mircea_popescu or i guess in between [02:45]
decimation yeah, that's fair [02:45]
decimation although it's been getting worse [02:45]
asciilifeform if one's principal equity is the house << depends which flavour of chumpitude one prefers [02:45]
asciilifeform the house i live in is a massive roaring bonfire for money [02:45]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that should be some pretty cool steel, that happily takes 100 degree differentials over decades. [02:45]
asciilifeform (rented) [02:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2015#1012439 [02:46]
assbot Logged on 08-02-2015 05:30:55; asciilifeform: and the junk is typically built to last about one decade. [02:46]
* assbot removes voice from BlueMatt [02:46]
decimation mircea_popescu: it's considered normal for the entire system to break every year or two, typically requiring a specially licensed repairman to come out and replace the freon lines [02:46]
mircea_popescu heh there's that. [02:46]
mircea_popescu decimation you know, i had an old zil fridge at some point in romania, and the thing had been running for ~25 years, and it never ever leaked. [02:47]
asciilifeform and yes, it's every bit the toilet+kitchen combo it soulds like [02:47]
asciilifeform *sounds [02:47]
asciilifeform i have a remote fitted to mine, and occasionally press the wrong button in half-awake trance [02:47]
asciilifeform firing up heat in summer or chillers in winter. [02:47]
asciilifeform zil fridge << indestructible. see old soviet fridge thread. [02:48]
asciilifeform !s zil [02:48]
assbot 6 results for 'zil' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=zil [02:48]
mircea_popescu http://media.englishrussia.com/new_images//zilmuseum-50.jpg << exactly the one in middle [02:48]
decimation mircea_popescu: in the us, I'm pretty sure that the manufacturers (who have an oligopoly) cheapen shit up so that it 'breaks' and requires replacement at a rate they select [02:48]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMFD6P ) [02:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://article.yeeyan.org/view/214657/182505 << check out all the soviet porn [02:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that's a recent zil [02:48]
asciilifeform ('80s?) [02:48]
mircea_popescu no ? [02:48]
mircea_popescu yeah the handle's not right [02:49]
asciilifeform we had a curvy, bulbous 1950s unit, that still worked when we left it - '92 [02:49]
mircea_popescu ok, well, very similar 70s model. [02:49]
mircea_popescu capatob ? [02:49]
asciilifeform and a '70s 'minsk' (ditto) [02:49]
decimation similar refrigerators were made in the us, and were similarly reliable, made before the 60's [02:49]
mircea_popescu decimation i know, fallout's full of them :D [02:49]
decimation this is all a chumpatron on the 'let's break everyone's window so we can stimulate the window-repair economy' model [02:50]
asciilifeform http://holod.made-in-by.by/images/stories/zil-fridge.jpg << the True zil. [02:50]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMGm8c ) [02:50]
mircea_popescu ah, that's an older model. [02:50]
asciilifeform interestingly, this type of fridge chassis was formally banned in usa, despite giving a much tighter seal than the magnetic rubber used today [02:51]
asciilifeform and the ban was an organized scam [02:51]
asciilifeform one of the first 'think of the ch1ldr3nz' idiocies [02:51]
decimation in the us, the chumpatron is often kick-started by a government regulation that is sold as 'efficient' or 'safe' [02:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform funny enough, it was heard of in 80s romania. parents insistently warning kids not to do it! [02:52]
asciilifeform probably the crap was translated into even eskimo [02:52]
asciilifeform catchy meme. [02:52]
mircea_popescu it is. i wonder why. [02:53]
asciilifeform http://forums.drom.ru/house/t1151932955.html << fella wanted to buy, insisted on this same zil, promised $maxint [02:53]
assbot Ищу холодильник ЗИЛ-Москва ЗИЛ-Днепр!!!!!! ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMHetf ) [02:53]
asciilifeform plenty of posts like this [02:53]
mircea_popescu perhaps because parents are so acutely aware of the type of divorcement between meaning and action that trips up children. [02:53]
mircea_popescu incidentally, the same that results in c++ bugs. [02:54]
asciilifeform just as there are, afaik, no confirmed reports of 'glue sniffing' prior to the media chumpamatics re: same in usa [02:54]
asciilifeform circa 1970s [02:54]
mircea_popescu like, most of 'em. "are you sure you wish to forever lock yourself in ? well...that's what you're doing" [02:54]
mircea_popescu "your exit pointer is now dangling" [02:54]
mircea_popescu that's what it is. parents suspect children are about on the level of c programmers, and try to avoid any situations where reality emulates the c compiler. [02:55]
asciilifeform http://s003.radikal.ru/i201/1108/14/507b7f02f398.jpg << can'o'sprats in bottom shelf [02:55]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMI4WX ) [02:55]
mircea_popescu hahaha [02:55]
mircea_popescu hm i had some pics of them too im sure. [02:55]
asciilifeform parents... c compiler << obligatory: 'shall be delivered' [02:56]
asciilifeform http://s017.radikal.ru/i427/1111/3a/913b2a83d5b1.jpg << zil... cake. [02:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMIH2S ) [02:57]
asciilifeform ^ the thing is iconic in ru [02:57]
mircea_popescu lol [02:59]
asciilifeform to a lesser extent also famous are other vintage home appliances, like 'buran' vacuum cleaner - http://kartmen.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/20131126_162658.jpg [02:59]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMJoJB ) [02:59]
asciilifeform still sits in many a summer 'dacha', used to - would you believe - gather up mosquitoes. [02:59]
asciilifeform yes, that thing is entirely steel. [03:00]
asciilifeform drop from a 8th story window? no problem. [03:00]
mircea_popescu grandparents had a buran. [03:00]
decimation asciilifeform: actually that's not a bad idea, it doesn't take much breeze to keep mosquitos away [03:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: same, lol [03:00]
mircea_popescu only thing that ever scared me. but i'd quit the room in a hurry [03:00]
asciilifeform l0l! [03:01]
* asciilifeform same [03:01]
mircea_popescu and yes it had a half bowl top and a fat cylinder butt [03:01]
mircea_popescu and sounded like a jet taking off [03:01]
asciilifeform that thing was -loud- [03:01]
asciilifeform only when i finally moved to current digs and got a 'shop vac' (industrial thing, picks up swarf in machine shop) finally can match 'buran'. [03:01]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2010/ce-bea-blogerul/ << my claim to ru citizenship [03:02]
asciilifeform for sheer deafening [03:02]
assbot Ce bea blogerul ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMJW25 ) [03:02]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: Daca as bea bere la foc continuu, pe o teava cat gatul direct in stomac, fara sa inghit, tot n-as ajunge nicaieri << this is a national sport in usa, didja know ? [03:04]
asciilifeform the corner shop near my old flat even sold the kit [03:04]
mircea_popescu the head mounted thing ? [03:04]
asciilifeform http://www.boozingear.com/media/catalog/product/cache/7/thumbnail/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/M/S/MSC-0157b/-Bongzilla-12-Pack-Beer-Bong.jpg << ad [03:05]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMKJ2Z ) [03:05]
asciilifeform http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/huge-beer-bong.jpg [03:05]
asciilifeform etc [03:05]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMKRQ4 ) [03:05]
mircea_popescu heh. [03:05]
mircea_popescu by the way, let's help the haters out a little. http://trilema.com/2009/cocktail-flu/ [03:05]
assbot Cocktail flu pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMKXqT ) [03:05]
decimation yes this is common in 'fraternities' on us university campuses [03:05]
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decimation !up smidge [03:18]
* assbot gives voice to smidge [03:18]
decimation guten morgen [03:18]
TheNewDeal it's not morgen for me [03:25]
TheNewDeal unless that means night [03:25]
decimation me neither but it would be for folks in germany [03:25]
TheNewDeal aye [03:26]
mircea_popescu heil fruhstuck ? [03:26]
decimation heh [03:26]
decimation with that I bid good evening [03:26]
decimation !down decimation [03:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.00041105 = 22.0323 BTC [+] [04:18]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1941 @ 0.00087042 = 1.6895 BTC [-] {8} [04:22]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1964 @ 0.0008671 = 1.703 BTC [-] {5} [04:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 262600 @ 0.00040591 = 106.592 BTC [-] {3} [04:26]
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cazalla https://twitter.com/ChipotleTweets lol [04:44]
assbot Chipotle (@ChipotleTweets) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvw6tQ ) [04:44]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:13]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [13:13]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [13:13]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [13:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49082 @ 0.00040969 = 20.1084 BTC [-] [13:24]
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mircea_popescu jurov: when putin arrives everyone will be caught with pants down << everyone still there, at any rate. [14:11]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 12009 @ 0.00077888 = 9.3536 BTC [-] {30} [14:14]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1833 @ 0.00077 = 1.4114 BTC [-] {9} [14:27]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 315 @ 0.00572587 = 1.8036 BTC [+] {20} [14:30]
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mircea_popescu btw, anyone read "[Date: 1601.] Conversation, as it was by the Social Fireside, in the Time of the Tudors." ? [14:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8743 @ 0.00040734 = 3.5614 BTC [+] [14:50]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin main net block size to increase in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1093/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 20(Y):80(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.601 BTC. Current weight: 88,488. [15:07]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC price to rise above 1oz of gold in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1092/ Odds: 38(Y):62(N) by coin, 39(Y):61(N) by weight. Total bet: 4.127 BTC. Current weight: 89,007. [15:07]
[]bot Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before April Fool's" http://bitbet.us/bet/1081/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.0329 BTC. Current weight: 39,234. [15:07]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2010 @ 0.00077012 = 1.5479 BTC [-] {8} [15:14]
mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel [15:22]
-assbot- You voiced gabriel_laddel for 30 minutes. [15:22]
* assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel [15:22]
mircea_popescu !gettrust assbot gabriel_laddel [15:22]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/gabriel_laddel | http://w.b-a.link/user/gabriel_laddel [15:22]
mircea_popescu dude, that thing's lengthy, and not directly obvious why i'd care ? [15:22]
gabriel_laddel then don't bother reading I suppose. [15:23]
mircea_popescu https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/4952 << skimmed a little. from a purely trolling perspective, it's not bad. [15:23]
assbot An experience with NixOS. · Issue #4952 · NixOS/nixpkgs · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1yXi10P ) [15:24]
mircea_popescu "the human's inability to fully comprehend the parsing and syntactical schemes they're able to create" << this is actually a generally valid point, and about half of all problems of humanity come from this impedance mismatch. [15:25]
mircea_popescu it's also necessarily going to remain there, and for great benefit. [15:25]
gabriel_laddel The last message from me in that thread contains a brief discussion of the "why" of lisp, that is, what separates it from being 'just another language'. Figured I'd post it in here because your previous trilema post discussing reverse polish notation and Erik Naggum + many #b-a messages didn't communicate to me that lisp has 'clicked' yet for many people. [15:26]
mircea_popescu well yes, fortunately i've cut to it by now. but listen, you gotta be much better at packaging stuff. [15:26]
mircea_popescu the best chemistry lab, were it to be maintained as a collection of bottles going "stuff" "Good stuff!" "REagenT" etc [15:27]
mircea_popescu would not really work. [15:27]
gabriel_laddel Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep that in mind. [15:27]
mircea_popescu and since this is here, allow me to rant, not in your direction particularly but in general, [15:29]
mircea_popescu that the idiocy of puritanism imposing "modesty" upon the coder (on top of chastity - which by the way, there's nothing great about not "raping" women, being a nice guy, great sense of humor etc. that's a drone.) limit people's ability to do crucial things for their success and the world's hygiene. [15:30]
mircea_popescu there's nothing wrong with saying "i am great", in principle. competent people do not in the slightest mind the nude affirmation of your naked competency. the error on the topic is amusing, but not the end of the world [15:30]
mircea_popescu (much like people falling imagine everyone's looking when in fact nobod ycares, so the guy caught overstating his competency imagines the world ended when really - people just had a laugh). [15:30]
fluffypony I feel like replying to that thread with "Yakshemash! Lisp best prostitute in all of Github. You like?" [15:31]
mircea_popescu it is i suspect off this festered, metastasized modesty that people can't make good summaries, introduce anything properly or generally package well [15:31]
gabriel_laddel fluffypony: lol [15:31]
mircea_popescu fuck (not heck. fuck!) it's probably even why people don't enjoy writing comments and specs. because they require "this is great" and "im so fucking proud of this" ands "i bet you wouldn't have come up with this in five lifetimes" to be either worth reading or worth writing [15:32]
mircea_popescu and somehow these natural and necessary modes of speech are "forbidden". /rant. [15:32]
fluffypony mircea_popescu: they're part of the "pat-on-the-back" crowd that constantly need to be told what a good job they're doing else their paltry raison d'être will crumble [15:33]
mircea_popescu i imagine you know, if you can't say it for yourself, you're stuck trying to find people to support you [15:34]
mircea_popescu doubleplusungood group creation recipe, this. [15:35]
mircea_popescu anyway https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/4952#issuecomment-73422170 is where the fun starts. [15:35]
assbot An experience with NixOS. · Issue #4952 · NixOS/nixpkgs · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1yXjSTl ) [15:35]
mircea_popescu and wtf is nixos even/ [15:35]
gabriel_laddel some idiots decided to redo all of unix's packaging [15:36]
gabriel_laddel using shell scripts and regexes, because types and haskell [15:36]
mircea_popescu well *nix packaging sucks quite universally. [15:36]
mircea_popescu ahahaha okay. [15:36]
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gabriel_laddel yeah. also, they don't document anything, or so much as tell you that they're going to move the whole C toolchain. [15:37]
mircea_popescu brb changing the font of the tax code [15:37]
gabriel_laddel which breaks about everything. [15:37]
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mircea_popescu the problem starts in 5th grade. there should be a class called Abstraction. [15:37]
mircea_popescu kids are expecting to do it and do it well but it's never taught. it's not like expecting virgins to fuck like pros on their first date. it's more like expecting tramps to ballet. spontaneously. [15:38]
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asciilifeform ;;bc,stats [15:43]
gribble Current Blocks: 342583 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 136 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 1 hour, 30 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44457253638.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.71543 [15:43]
asciilifeform 314555. [15:43]
asciilifeform anyone read "[Date: 1601.] Conversation, as it was by the Social Fireside... << aye. [15:44]
asciilifeform (anyone wants? here it is, http://archive.org/stream/160103190gut/3190.txt ) [15:44]
assbot Full text of "1601" ... ( http://bit.ly/1yXlkoM ) [15:44]
asciilifeform NixOS << if idiots want to keep trying to 'fly' to the moon by stacking chairs, let them. [15:46]
asciilifeform but there is no reason for any thinking person to become involved in any capacity. [15:46]
gabriel_laddel ^ Correct. I ended up using it because I needed to quickly build a linux distro and someone told me it could do some things it couldn't really do. [15:48]
mircea_popescu scam. [15:48]
gabriel_laddel mistakenly posted that issue, not fully grokking how bad of an idea it was [15:48]
gabriel_laddel (nixos, that is ) [15:48]
gabriel_laddel eventually learned the hard way. [15:48]
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mircea_popescu "Examples: at what point is appropriate to leave package management up to a language's ecosystem? Is there ever a reason to? " << one hell of a problem. [15:49]
gabriel_laddel Politics is harder than writing code. Who would have thought. [15:50]
mircea_popescu in MPWorld this is implemented as a sort of api, and languages either talk to it or are stuck doing 100% of the work themselves. [15:50]
asciilifeform possibly the best package management system for commonlisp users is 'quicklisp'. essentially bulletproof. [15:50]
* assbot gives voice to chetty [15:50]
mircea_popescu only correct solution to political problems, b-a ness. [15:50]
asciilifeform downloads dependencies, grinds gpg sigs, etc. automatically. [15:51]
chetty it's more like expecting tramps to ballet. spontaneously.//you mean they don't? I see in the movies all the time [15:51]
mircea_popescu "For instance, for ELF executables, we set the RPATH in the executable such that it will find a statically determined set of library dependencies at runtime, rather than using a dynamic mechanism such as the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable to look up libraries" holy shit. [15:52]
mircea_popescu this is essentially mitm for the userspace. [15:52]
mircea_popescu chetty well the movies kinda exist for this purpose. [15:52]
* assbot removes voice from gabriel_laddel [15:52]
asciilifeform thing is, braindamaged languages (they know who they are) have no way of specifying -individual routines- as having dependencies [15:52]
mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel [15:52]
-assbot- You voiced gabriel_laddel for 30 minutes. [15:52]
* assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel [15:52]
asciilifeform likewise, another common form of braindamage is a lack of any fine-grained namespace control [15:53]
mircea_popescu no but this is out and out "everythingwillbefineism" imported back into the software stack. [15:54]
mircea_popescu like you know, plaintext emails and unauthed telnet. because "who would ever hijack an account!" [15:54]
mircea_popescu let's just assume that it's ok to override the user imperatives. because. [15:54]
asciilifeform trying to explain that it is quit impossible to have a package management system above the language level that is not dumbed down by support for braindamaged languages. [15:54]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i didn;'t mean you, i'm stikk in shock over the quote above [15:55]
mircea_popescu still* [15:55]
asciilifeform wai which [15:55]
asciilifeform the elf thing? [15:55]
asciilifeform woah. [15:55]
mircea_popescu yes that. [15:56]
asciilifeform mitm for the userspace << funnily, one common purely-userland trick to play on pwned folks is to adjust LD_PRELOAD in their personal shell env [15:56]
asciilifeform e.g., substitute a 'readline' that logs keys, etc. [15:57]
mircea_popescu well yes. [15:57]
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mod6 no need to worry about r00tkit, r00tkit pre-installed! [16:06]
mircea_popescu "it's not the rootkit, it's the os" [16:09]
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mircea_popescu "There are very few classics in the field of computing. We are at the very beginning of this journey and it hasn't even begun to get interesting yet. IMHO, the Cathedral vs. Bazaar isn't in anyway a dilemma or a classic. Linux was a failure 20 years ago, it is a failure today and any posturing otherwise is just that. " [16:18]
mircea_popescu the sad reality is that the earlier "linux is a failure but doesn't have to stay that way" is slowly coming to the sobering reality that "it is a failure and systemfuck it." [16:19]
gabriel_laddel Seriously. Where is the tree of all hardware as nodes with drivers as sub nodes? Oh, it doesn't exist? right. [16:20]
mircea_popescu it's not that it doesn't exist. [16:20]
mircea_popescu it doesn't exist 30 years later, which 30 years have been spent doing what exactly ? [16:20]
mircea_popescu fighting hardware. [16:20]
gabriel_laddel 'fighting' [16:21]
mircea_popescu right. [16:21]
gabriel_laddel what I would like to see is an actual fight. [16:21]
mircea_popescu you need actual men for actual fights. [16:21]
mircea_popescu ever seen teenagers brawl in the schoolyard ? [16:21]
gabriel_laddel nope. [16:21]
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mircea_popescu "eyes closed and arms flailing" [16:21]
gabriel_laddel as for the fight in our realm, I'd like to buy 10ks of AMD opterons K8 chips and reverse engineer them. Give designs to China. [16:22]
* mircea_popescu still vividly remembers this event when he was maybe 13 or so. this kid "got really psised off" and was going to hit me. every time he launched his fist, he also closed his eyes. every time i'd dodge and he'd mash his fist into the nearby wall. his hits got softer an softer, but he never figured out why exactly he's not making contact. [16:23]
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mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel [16:23]
-assbot- You voiced gabriel_laddel for 30 minutes. [16:23]
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gabriel_laddel hahahaa [16:23]
mircea_popescu wouldja id already. [16:23]
mircea_popescu motherfucker! [16:26]
mircea_popescu "Suppose you're trying to find the best way to structure your description of something. (Examples: choosing the structure for a computer program to perform some task; or choosing the structure for a theory of physics.) [16:26]
mircea_popescu What you hope to find is the natural structure of what you're describing — a structure that affords a really beautiful, simple description. When you strike the natural structure, a sort of resonance occurs, in which various subsidiary problems you may have had with your description just melt away, and the description practically writes itself." [16:26]
mircea_popescu these kids are so fucking stupid i can't believe i've just read "when you meet the right someone it'll feel special" in code-words. [16:26]
mircea_popescu what the fuck already, if the planet crossed through a bogon ray one evening in 1988 and made everyone's brain essentially batrachian in nature i could never know. [16:28]
gabriel_laddel ... [16:29]
gabriel_laddel I've had that exact experience with programming. [16:29]
mircea_popescu so what if you did ? [16:29]
mircea_popescu so did i. what's that do ? [16:30]
gabriel_laddel well, when someone is tweaking the design of something and it produces extremely complex and counter-intuitive behavior I point them to that quote. [16:30]
gabriel_laddel the /feeling/ didn't do anything. It is merely a signal. [16:31]
mircea_popescu listen here : the fact that it feels right is no indication of it being the best way. [16:31]
mircea_popescu the fact of it being a pile a kludge is an excellent indication of it not being the best way, but rather heuristic in nature. [16:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ...fighting hardware << aha. linux kernel in one sentence. [16:31]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: so how'd you learn to fuck? [16:32]
gabriel_laddel feelings, and trial and error were not involved at all? [16:32]
mircea_popescu the entire basis for that quote is the reverbalisation of the concept that "when true love comes around you'll know". empirically, most people do not. [16:32]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel i actually was kinda disinterested in fucking as a young adolescent, was taught by older girls. [16:32]
mircea_popescu you figure that's relevant ? [16:33]
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gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: yes. you've written about the game of 'balance' wrt fucking. when playing this game you /know/ somehow that you're doing it correctly, via various signals. [16:34]
mircea_popescu but in any case : what do you figure is the difference bewteen "When you strike the natural structure, a sort of resonance occurs" and "perl is a fine way to do nixos" ? [16:34]
mircea_popescu after all... when you hit the language with regexp just right you know. [16:34]
mircea_popescu total lack of exploding computers. [16:34]
mircea_popescu apparently you no longer need trees here ? [16:35]
mircea_popescu just you know, pattern match and all will be well (when it's truely well) [16:35]
gabriel_laddel using regexes for that is something like... trying to impregnate a woman through her arse. [16:35]
gabriel_laddel at some point you've just got to try something different. [16:35]
mircea_popescu but you, in your own description (well, in their description which you seem to underscore) of "how to meta-structure" in fact revert to what is the equivalent of pattern matching. [16:36]
mircea_popescu this is exactly what perl outputs : "it feels right" [16:36]
gabriel_laddel as for my id, I'm currently fixing . First chance I get I'm sitting down and sorting out the whole GPG thing. As it stands I was not particularly happy with the documentation it supplied and wasn't sure which parts I'd have to rewrite. My previous key got destroyed in a failed backup becuase I didn't spend enough time on it the first time around. Also, I don't think gossipd is happening via w [16:36]
gabriel_laddel hoever it was, and I'm fairly sure I grok ASCII's plan and will be handling some intro documentation for it + figuring out how the PGP code needs to interface with it exactly. [16:36]
gabriel_laddel Hmm... [16:37]
gabriel_laddel Perhaps that quote was misplaced. [16:38]
mircea_popescu re game of balance : fucking is an extremely poor metaphora for what we're doing here, because computers are actually turing machines, whereas cunts are not. [16:38]
mircea_popescu so yes, you can do just fine as a human interacting with humans on broken structure. just as long as it's broken in tolerable places. [16:38]
mircea_popescu dna is exactly this : worst code ever, wouldn't even parse, let alone compile. [16:38]
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mircea_popescu which is why a flimsy repackaging of "popular advice" that doesn't even work on the fucking plane is horribru. not only it doesn't work in practice, but the mind that tends to make such confusions is probably in a very poor state to think about anything. [16:40]
mircea_popescu (ps. the lisp notation of basic arithmetic would win "least likely to succeed" "ass-ugliest award" from a vast majority of all the people who understand basic arithmetic. it "doesn't feel right" for almost anyone. 3+4 does. [16:41]
mircea_popescu so what does this matter ?) [16:41]
gabriel_laddel becuase of the "various subsidiary problems that fall away" [16:41]
mircea_popescu which most idiots aren't aware of in the first place. [16:42]
mircea_popescu mebbe i should dig that article where i murder some guy over leaving out the outside paran or something. [16:42]
gabriel_laddel the only reasonable basis for discussing such things is how much power they afford you [16:42]
mircea_popescu whether "they're right" ? what are you, hitler ? [16:42]
mircea_popescu the right structure is that structure which expresses the sum total of all the concepts in can express in the smallest total count of expression units. note that both fields being infinite, this is a difficult comparison to evaluate. [16:43]
mircea_popescu it's even difficult to establish what kids of infinite are involved. [16:44]
mircea_popescu kinds* [16:44]
gabriel_laddel relevent: http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm [16:45]
assbot Notation as a Tool of Thought ... ( http://bit.ly/1C7CRvk ) [16:45]
mircea_popescu aye, i suspect notation and structure are actually closer married than we generally realise. [16:46]
asciilifeform lisp notation of basic arithmetic << one of the most common n00b failures-to-grok. (+ 1 2 3 4 5) not only puts less mileage on keyboard than 1+2+3+4+5, but nukes the abomination of having arbitrary orders of evaluation [16:46]
asciilifeform programmer enters the syntax tree directly. [16:46]
gabriel_laddel Hmm.. This is what I was attempting to communicate. [16:47]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but feelings were the criteria. [16:47]
asciilifeform pheelingz [16:47]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: eh, that was a footnote. [16:47]
gabriel_laddel That said, I've had the experience several times of reading trilema or the logs, not immediately grokking it, returning a day later to have it all 'click'. I'm thinking that might happen here. [16:47]
mircea_popescu you know it's not your trial for being a badman, this. [16:47]
gabriel_laddel sorry? [16:48]
gabriel_laddel (I don't parse that) [16:48]
mircea_popescu all the various foregoing rants are not directed at you personally as if you were somehow in ther wrong on some score. [16:49]
gabriel_laddel wtf is this, we're discussing a footnote in something I posted. [16:49]
gabriel_laddel as for puritanism, sure, not directed at me entirely. [16:49]
mircea_popescu neither, no. [16:49]
mircea_popescu anyway : the quote you took carries a certain meaning in its original context (physics - esp "natural" is a term of art in physics) and is an entirely different thing in the new context (coding). i fully agree with the quote as it is on the source blog [16:50]
mircea_popescu when put together with the nix discussion on github it gives me spots on the spline. [16:50]
mircea_popescu odd how this works. [16:50]
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mircea_popescu same exact fucking quote, as in, string. [16:51]
gabriel_laddel Ah. [16:51]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: random: but I recall you said you don't like driving so you don't. You're driven. Do you ever "want" to drive in some ideal scenario? A racetrack or something? [16:51]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller notrly. [16:52]
asciilifeform the 'nixos' thing is about the same kind, and degree, of contribution to culture as the soviet dogs with extra heads sewn on. with the difference that the latter still have the former beat in the purpose they're really fit for - chimeras to scare small children with [16:52]
thestringpuller guess it's an american phenomenon. I find I hate driving in traffic. But lemme open up a sports car at 120-130 MPH somewhere "Top Gear" style and I have a blast. [16:52]
thestringpuller too many action movies as a child I 'spose [16:53]
mircea_popescu so take up bobsleigh. better for your health. [16:53]
gabriel_laddel " As far as I can tell, were one to extrapolate from the given information to a set of concrete requirements we see that NixOS plans to rewrite the build scripts for every version of every project on unix. Again, this is insane. The correct thing to do in this situation is to realize the utter impossibility of the task that has been set forth and re-evaluate one's approach.[1]" << [1] links to the quote previously d [16:53]
gabriel_laddel iscussed. [16:53]
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asciilifeform !up gabriel_laddel [16:53]
mircea_popescu !up gabriel_laddel [16:53]
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-assbot- You voiced gabriel_laddel for another 30 minutes. [16:53]
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gabriel_laddel ty [16:53]
mircea_popescu yep, which is why i said tis not about you. [16:53]
mircea_popescu in any case : the space of things physics has to represent is in point of fact narrower than the space of things computer programs have to represent. [16:54]
mircea_popescu we know this to be true, because you can have mmorpgs. [16:54]
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asciilifeform now the next phase of moon-chair-stacking, that nix may or may not have yet entered, is to decide that the turd they have created and are doomed to dine on is in fact a sausage, and to lash out angrily at folks pointing out the actual facts [16:55]
mircea_popescu first stage is next stage. [16:56]
asciilifeform 'yes we reached the moon, who said we weren't talking about that one [points to moon painted on ceiling of mental institution]' [16:57]
mircea_popescu i think we're in the mental institution. they're outside. cheaper this way, more of them. [16:57]
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mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel you seriously thinking of implementing a sane pgp ? [16:58]
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gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: eventually, yes. [16:59]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: as for now, I just want to have a clear idea of what the interface is, what the problems are etc. [16:59]
mircea_popescu i wanna read the design documents for this. [16:59]
* asciilifeform wishes to point out that a 'sane pgp' will not be pgp-compatible. because much of the insanity lies in the standard itself. [16:59]
mircea_popescu this is granted. [16:59]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: I'v M-x rembered (or something) the previous thread on the matter for when I return to it. [17:00]
cazalla ;;later tell bingoboingo hey, remember that fish i told you about? hooked and landed it after a few days :) [17:00]
gribble The operation succeeded. [17:00]
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gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: you had a alternate name for gossipd based on russian theater that had some relation to the nazis. I couldn't find the wiki article again, care to point me to it? [17:02]
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mircea_popescu !up bitstein [17:02]
-assbot- You voiced bitstein for 30 minutes. [17:02]
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mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel i take this is going to be lisp, as in not scheme, not clojure, cl ? [17:03]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: CL + C when necessary. [17:03]
mircea_popescu do they mix ? [17:04]
gabriel_laddel ya [17:04]
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gabriel_laddel https://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/ [17:06]
assbot CFFI - The Common Foreign Function Interface ... ( http://bit.ly/1C7FP3c ) [17:06]
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asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: not a theatre. the 'red orchestra' [17:08]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: which wasn't any kind of orchestra but a spy network [17:09]
mircea_popescu ie, the illegal residents of ww2 ? [17:09]
asciilifeform aha [17:09]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: thank you, this is what I wanted. [17:10]
mircea_popescu so total noob here, but. the way cffi works is you compile your c stuff as dynamic objects and then put the headers in your lisp program ? or what ? [17:10]
* asciilifeform has no idea why any of the discussed projects would require cffi [17:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform because the guy says so lol. why else ? [17:11]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: gossipd requires C. PGP, CL (at least, this is where I'd start). [17:12]
gabriel_laddel cffi to bridge the two if needed, but only then. [17:12]
mircea_popescu you mean to bridge ro and gossipd ? [17:13]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: when i declared that it ought to be writte in c, i meant -entirely- [17:13]
asciilifeform so as to fit on ludicrously small embedded machinery [17:13]
asciilifeform and have wholly deterministic heapless memory behaviour [17:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform cl can't do these ? :D [17:13]
asciilifeform but nowhere is it written that anyone must listen to this [17:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you can write cl without 'cons' but this is like english without letter 'e' [17:14]
mircea_popescu four vowels should be enough for vryon. [17:15]
asciilifeform vrn [17:15]
asciilifeform and when i say 'c', i'm not talking about gnarly turdalicious gpg-style c [17:17]
asciilifeform but clean c [17:17]
asciilifeform obligatory: https://gist.github.com/pete/665971 [17:17]
assbot Various implementations of the 'cat' command, for comparison. ... ( http://bit.ly/1A70iIK ) [17:17]
gabriel_laddel My current plan for dealing with these projects: The haskell package Language.C.AST parses C99 entirely, taking into account all GCC extensions. I'm going to pay someone to add a sexpr backend to it so I can work it into my CL toolchain. [17:17]
gabriel_laddel As for what language I'll be using on any given project, it will be determined entirely by what is correct for the project. If I hack something out in CL, but switch it over to C, I'll do that. If it makes sense to release a protopye that is hacked together C+CL+CFFI I'll do that. In any case, both of these come after getting the #b-a distro finished. [17:17]
asciilifeform 'clean' as in, i whip out a stick and point to a line, and you can tell my why it's there. [17:17]
asciilifeform haskell package <<< pay someone to add a sexpr backend to it so I can work it into my CL toolchain ... [17:18]
* asciilifeform head-desks [17:18]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: ? [17:18]
asciilifeform what part of 'minimal' is so hard to understand? [17:18]
asciilifeform what part of 'fits in head'? [17:18]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: Sorry, I was being less than clear - this is only for development. [17:18]
mircea_popescu sometimes i fantasize about buying an old english castle, turning it into a computing school for nude 18 to 22 yo ladies, and putting alf in charge of it, with a flexible bamboo cane. [17:18]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel, et al: try to remember why all of these things need redoing in the first place [17:19]
asciilifeform ! [17:19]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: signmeup. [17:19]
mircea_popescu then after a decade i come by and go... "why did she write this!" [17:19]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: You've never desired to query over a bunch of gnarly C code? [17:19]
asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: query? [17:20]
asciilifeform for the purpose of taking a flamethrower to it and replacing with something sane - grep + eyes has always sufficed [17:20]
mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel his idea being i suspect that c code you wish to query over should just be quarried over yonder hill [17:20]
mircea_popescu let the wolves have it. [17:20]
asciilifeform any other purpose i'm not the least bit interested in [17:20]
asciilifeform aha [17:20]
asciilifeform what mircea_popescu ^ said. [17:20]
gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: Yes. Show me all structures that look like this. Pattern match against structures, rewrite them as so. [17:20]
asciilifeform automated rewrite is equivalent to original turd [17:20]
mircea_popescu an automated deturdifier ? [17:20]
asciilifeform in that all the turdaliciousness remains in place [17:21]
asciilifeform it is like suggesting an automated converter of reddit spew to interesting literature [17:21]
* asciilifeform off to meatspace for a spell, unfortunately not for any reasons pertaining to ancient castles [17:21]
mircea_popescu meh, it' never work, no character growth. [17:21]
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gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: I'm assuming, at least for now, that I'm going to have to /look/ at the current PGP sources (thus the C sexprast ). This has no bearing on what will be released other than - I will do what makes sense given the situation. [17:22]
mircea_popescu so automated code reader. hey, might work. [17:22]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: I have some code now that converts javascript to parenscript [17:23]
gabriel_laddel it, and nothing else will ever be a substitute for thought. [17:23]
gabriel_laddel merely an aid. [17:23]
mircea_popescu right, i see what you're doing there. [17:23]
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gabriel_laddel "As for what language I'll be using on any given project, it will be determined entirely by what is correct for the project." [17:26]
trinque gabriel_laddel: how do you find using parenscript? [17:27]
trinque I've tried the clojure/clojurescript combo and was thrilled to be using the same language on both ends [17:28]
gabriel_laddel trinque: Modifying clojurescript is god-awful. [17:28]
gabriel_laddel modifying parenscript isn't terrible. [17:28]
trinque gabriel_laddel: the outputted JS is more comprehensible? [17:28]
gabriel_laddel trinque: well, there is that too. [17:28]
gabriel_laddel trinque: in any case, I hate everything about the browser. [17:29]
trinque that goes without saying [17:29]
mircea_popescu the browser is not unlikely what'd have happened if the beduins had discovered dna alteration and there was no interstellar void. [17:31]
mircea_popescu camels floating in space on half butterfly/half bat wings [17:31]
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gabriel_laddel As for PGP, I'm assuming that I'm going to have to spend a decent amount of time with the codebase and reading the spec. Perhaps not. [17:35]
gabriel_laddel .. [17:36]
gabriel_laddel Why might one want to see the C ast? Let's say that we've got a codebase like the linux kernel, or opengl drivers. You know that somewhere you've got some stuff that talks to the hardware, but grep returns false positives. You instead pull the ast into memory, query across it for the bits your looking for. False positives now indicate something about the language (i.e., that I don't understand it as well as I though [17:36]
gabriel_laddel t) rather than just a false positive. Again, I've never written C, and perhaps the ast is so complicated that it's actually impossible to get any useful information out of it, but my current experience suggests that having this ability is a good idea. Building something like `slime-who-calls' suddenly becomes simple. [17:36]
mircea_popescu im not even sure pgp has a spec. [17:36]
mircea_popescu if you recall it was a hurried samizdat [17:37]
gabriel_laddel kk. I should be discussing this in design documents anyways. [17:37]
ben_vulpes so take up bobsleigh. better for your health. << or bicycles, more actual physical connection of your meat with the dynamic systems in question. airplanes and helicopters worth looking into as well [17:40]
mircea_popescu actual planes, how do you call them [17:40]
mircea_popescu gliders [17:41]
ben_vulpes oh yeah gliders are also awesome [17:41]
ben_vulpes i like things without much by way of engine. [17:41]
mircea_popescu hang gliders esp [17:42]
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ben_vulpes hang glider stability dynamics are interesting, but kinda neutered. [17:43]
mircea_popescu no i meant for your muscle contact thing [17:43]
ben_vulpes sorta like the "chair with prop hanging from parasail" design. [17:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81500 @ 0.00040982 = 33.4003 BTC [+] [17:43]
mircea_popescu well, you gotta move to pilot it [17:43]
ben_vulpes don't get me wrong, they're fly as hell. [17:44]
ben_vulpes just...limited subset of the control space. [17:44]
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ben_vulpes !up bitcoinquestions [17:46]
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ben_vulpes got some lulz for me today? [17:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46105 @ 0.00040611 = 18.7237 BTC [-] {2} [18:18]
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decimation re: parasail < I've heard of incidents where pilots of parasails fly too close to moving trains. They get caught in the vortex and then crash [18:21]
decimation I mean paraglider, not parasail I guess [18:21]
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bitcoinquestions If I generate a key on a MAC OS that I use for other purposes is it at all secure? Or should I not even bother generating keys if I'm not on a linux distro? [18:21]
danielpbarron is the machine connected to a network? [18:22]
ben_vulpes decimation: aeronautics is full of exciting! new! innovative! ways to die. [18:22]
ben_vulpes i saw a gents quadrotor get sucked into its own downdraft near a wall one time, and slam itself repeatedly into said wall while its pilot tried to rescue it [18:23]
decimation bitcoinquestions: it is my understanding that macOs uses freebsd's rng (Yarrow), but you are implictly trusting apple... [18:23]
decimation ben_vulpes: yeah we ground-bound folk don't appreciate the air movements around objects [18:24]
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decimation in particular with paragliding, I think that it attracts a certain set of folk who might not consider safety as a top priority [18:26]
ben_vulpes there's also the squirrelsuit insanity [18:27]
decimation folks who volunteer to jump out of a perfectly good aircraft? [18:27]
ben_vulpes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N9t5qOSzCU << this sort of thing [18:29]
assbot The best wing suit /skydive from you tube PART1 - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1A2ZFl5 ) [18:29]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: fwiw there aren't many orcs in the rural bits of ussa, and one can shoot trespassers on sign in those provinces too << Different kind, even tolkien had different kinds of orcs [18:29]
decimation ben_vulpes: lol that's nuts [18:29]
decimation it's an interesting use of ground effect though [18:30]
ben_vulpes that's not ground effect if i understand the mechanism in question correctly. [18:30]
ben_vulpes GE entails actually riding on a compressed cushion between the foil and the ground, not the lift off the foil alone. [18:31]
ben_vulpes (again, i am not an expert in this area) [18:31]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform not so foolish as to think about 'homogeneous enforcement environments', knows that there are, e.g., vast deserts in usa where folks set off trucks full of dynamite for amusement, etc. << Sometimes law enforcement attention comes to these folks too. [18:31]
decimation ben_vulpes: yeah I guess that's what I thought was happening when he gets close to the ground, but there's probably not enough of a 'cushion' to do the turns they are doing [18:32]
decimation it strikes me that if the wind suddenly shifts they could easily bash their heads into a rock [18:32]
ben_vulpes it's not really clear to me how close they actually are to terra. [18:33]
ben_vulpes in some places, very close. those places also look very steep. [18:33]
ben_vulpes sink rate being a thing; angle of attack being a thing... [18:34]
decimation aye [18:34]
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BingoBoingo decimation: in the us gas heat is common, but typical large us house has a 'forced air' system that moves heated air around the house << Natural gas backup generators for homes are not unheard of here, occasionally going up to home's normal electricity consumption. [19:00]
BingoBoingo The things live burried in yard [19:01]
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decimation BingoBoingo: yeah for whatever reason natural gas distribution seems much more reliable than electric distribution [19:02]
mircea_popescu bitcoinquestions in general a machine is secure if its secure. linux is not a magic pill. as danielpbarron suggests, not connecting it to the internet helps a lot, but also makes it more difficult. [19:03]
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BingoBoingo decimation: Well failures of the natural gas system tend to be more... catastrophic... I remember as a child the day half of my hometown was evacuated because ditch diggers broke an incoming pipe at the edge of town. [19:03]
mircea_popescu heh. [19:03]
decimation BingoBoingo: yeah that's true. occasionally a house explodes too [19:03]
BingoBoingo Or city block [19:04]
mircea_popescu a total of nine exploded in a decade in timisoara (tiny town, 300k) [19:04]
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[]bot Bet created: "Gold below $1175 on March 1st" http://bitbet.us/bet/1118/ [19:07]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: the best chemistry lab, were it to be maintained as a collection of bottles going "stuff" "Good stuff!" "REagenT" etc 18:23:12 mircea_popescu: would not really work. << This is why other big cause of home explosion is meth "labs" [19:14]
mircea_popescu decimation> in particular with paragliding, I think that it attracts a certain set of folk who might not consider safety as a top priority << i think paragliding is much like hunting, a sport intended for empty land. [19:15]
mircea_popescu you wouldn't go blasting quailshot all over the mall either, would you. [19:15]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo yup. people trusting shit to memory that are also actively attackin it chemically. [19:16]
thestringpuller BingoBoingo: that Breaking Bad tho [19:20]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: Illustrates an important difference. "Anyone can do" and "Few can do well" [19:20]
thestringpuller At somepoint I thunk you better call saul [19:21]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu still vividly remembers this event when he was maybe 13 or so. this kid "got really psised off" and was going to hit me. every time he launched his fist, he also closed his eyes. every time i'd dodge and he'd mash his fist into the nearby wall. his hits got softer an softer, but he never figured out why exactly he's not making contact. << Silimar event in middle school. Bigger kid pesters me for days about how he's [19:23]
BingoBoingo going to fight me. When he finally starts throwing punches can't keep his eyes open long enough to hit anything or avoid going to the ground and getting stomped [19:23]
mircea_popescu i didn't beat him up, it was kinda incongruous. he had no real quarrel, posed no real threat and besides, as far as teh adults were concerned i was a silver spoony gentleman. [19:24]
BingoBoingo Well, I'd been annoyed by his build up to this event for a few day, twas enough of a greivance. [19:26]
mircea_popescu makes sense [19:27]
BingoBoingo School administrator was puzzled by the combatants being "A" students without long disciplinary records didn't see fit to issue discipline to either party as the aggressor learned he wasn't fit to aggress. [19:30]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu still vividly remembers this event when he was maybe 13 or so. this kid "got really psised off" and was going to hit me. every time he launched his fist, he also closed his eyes. every time i'd dodge and he'd mash his fist into the nearby wall. his hits got softer an softer, but he never figured out why exactly he's not making contact. << Airstrip One must first be cast into the ocean [19:38]
BingoBoingo ^mircea_popescu: sometimes i fantasize about buying an old english castle, turning it into a computing school for nude 18 to 22 yo ladies, and putting alf in charge of it, with a flexible bamboo cane. << wrong pasta buffer [19:38]
mircea_popescu lol you think ? [19:39]
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decimation from the slatestarcodex guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_of_the_Calling_of_an_Engineer [19:42]
assbot Ritual of the Calling of an Engineer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/190fPzt ) [19:42]
decimation "The ritual traces its origins to professor H. E. T. Haultain of the University of Toronto, who believed and persuaded other members of the Engineering Institute of Canada that there needed to be a ceremony and standard of ethics developed for graduating engineers. The need was patently obvious in the light of the Quebec Bridge disasters." [19:42]
decimation http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1299 < "One clever soul suggested applying this doctrine to yet a fourth profession, creating a kind of “programmer priest.” Perhaps one day there will indeed be someone you can trust to pronounce – truthfully and competently – that a crypto-system is strong, that a protocol has not been diddled, that your computer serves only a single master." [19:43]
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assbot Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice. ... ( http://bit.ly/190fXPr ) [19:43]
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mircea_popescu slowly inching towards that. but more like conclave. [19:45]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform "In the United States polite letters was a cult of the Brahmins of Boston, with William Dean Howells at the helm of the Atlantic." << Release Date: August 20, 2006 [EBook #3190] [19:54]
mircea_popescu apparently "brahmin" has a lengthy usage to describe the cult of the dead cow of massachussetts ? [19:55]
mircea_popescu (produced by one David Widger) [19:55]
decimation moldbug repurposed (re-re-repurposed?) the word "brahmin" to mean something like 'modern liberal elite' [19:56]
mircea_popescu signed Franklin J. Meine [19:56]
mircea_popescu dead about the time shockley was splitting up. [19:56]
mircea_popescu decimation this is exactly the usage. [19:56]
decimation but before that it was used to describe Massachusetts men who spoke with a particular accent and had a particular affinity with the anglo colonizers [19:57]
mircea_popescu as in "Boston Brahmin" ? [19:57]
decimation aye [19:58]
mircea_popescu The term was coined by the physician and writer Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., in an 1860 article in the Atlantic Monthly. [19:58]
mircea_popescu ic. [19:59]
decimation actual boston brahmins talking > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfR4DLXYpCw [19:59]
assbot A dying race- two Boston Brahmins converse (from AMERICAN TO - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DU01aK ) [19:59]
mircea_popescu they sound australian to me. [20:00]
decimation I guess that's what you get from fifth-generation englishmen removed from england [20:00]
decimation perhaps farther removed actually [20:01]
mircea_popescu thye also sound quite idiotic, in retrospect. [20:08]
mircea_popescu dickens vs austen ? "o look, my toy car is faster than your toy car!" [20:08]
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decimation yeah the conversation topic is quite inane. [20:11]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i love your quotes on the US being broke [20:11]
thestringpuller I say that to cops a lot when they pull me over for being black [20:11]
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mircea_popescu does it work out ? [20:12]
thestringpuller "You're broke nigga, you gonna really persecute the nigga payin your salary" [20:12]
mircea_popescu lmao [20:12]
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mircea_popescu !up Quantinium [20:12]
-assbot- You voiced Quantinium for 30 minutes. [20:12]
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mircea_popescu yeah, that's a true old courthouse favourite, "i pay your salary" [20:12]
thestringpuller Usually cop is like "You got anything valuable in the vehicle?" [20:12]
thestringpuller "Or on your person?" [20:13]
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mircea_popescu !up bitcoinquestions [20:14]
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decimation thestringpuller: they are fishing for some property to indict. maybe the local cops want to have some new toys [20:14]
bitcoinquestions yo i dug through your posts on trilema about how you think Gavin is sabotaging bitcoin or whatever for wanting to increase the block size. Are you afraid of DDOS attacks because there are not enough full nodes? [20:14]
thestringpuller bitcoinquestions: could you elaborate on your question? [20:15]
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mircea_popescu !up mandarin [20:16]
-assbot- You voiced mandarin for 30 minutes. [20:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52062 @ 0.00039986 = 20.8175 BTC [-] {3} [20:16]
mircea_popescu i am not afraid. [20:16]
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thestringpuller !b 1 [20:17]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/37P8WY9.txt ) [20:17]
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danielpbarron funny he mentions ddos [20:21]
decimation it is, isn't it? [20:22]
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decimation in 1790 mr. ddos would have been on one of the sans-culotte's murder gangs [20:23]
mircea_popescu hardly. [20:24]
decimation well, there's a certain lefty predilection toward paranoia/violence that seems stable over the centuries [20:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48450 @ 0.00039723 = 19.2458 BTC [-] [20:29]
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mircea_popescu i suspect it's just narcissistic rage. [20:30]
mircea_popescu "what do you mean i am stupid ?!?!?!?!" [20:30]
decimation 'no ur stupid, imma ddos you loic!' [20:30]
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mircea_popescu !up bitcoinquestions [20:48]
-assbot- You voiced bitcoinquestions for 30 minutes. [20:48]
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mircea_popescu get a cloak will you. [20:48]
bitcoinquestions A cloak? [20:49]
bitcoinquestions You mean hide my IP address? [20:49]
mircea_popescu yes. [20:51]
bitcoinquestions Were you flooding my IP address? [20:53]
mircea_popescu nope. [20:58]
mircea_popescu !s ddos [20:58]
assbot 485 results for 'ddos' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ddos [20:59]
mircea_popescu this is a recurring topic here. [20:59]
bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: ? I need to know whether or not to call the cable company :D [20:59]
mircea_popescu there's, intermittently, some unidentified derp that floods noobs [20:59]
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mircea_popescu !up bitcoinquestions [21:32]
-assbot- You voiced bitcoinquestions for 30 minutes. [21:32]
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bitcoinquestions ty [21:33]
bitcoinquestions as I was trying to ask early - why do you not like the change to increase the block size? [21:33]
mircea_popescu you said that you read my articles, which is nice, but it'd be a lot better if instead of saying you did you showed me you did, by asking meaningful rather than meaninglessly general questions. [21:35]
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mircea_popescu particularly relevant, http://trilema.com/2015/third-pass-addressing-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/ [21:36]
assbot Third pass addressing the more common pseudo-arguments raised by the very stupid people that like the Gavin scamcoin proposal pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vzm5Zm ) [21:36]
mircea_popescu "XII. The current 1Mb limit is arbitrary. We want to change it. Please ignore the fact that the discussion is about whether to change or not to change, and please ignore that the onus is on whoever proposes change to justify it. Instead, buy into our pretense that the discussion is about "which arbitrary value". Because we're idiots, and so should be you!" [21:36]
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bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: Okay of course the proponents of the change are the ones who must justify it. But the justification is pretty simple, with a larger block size the network can support more transactions per second. This allows more transactions to be onchain instead of through trusted identities. [21:41]
mircea_popescu looky here : growing larger implies growing costs. this is a given. a larger bitcoin will somehow be paid for. [21:41]
mircea_popescu there are two avenues to pay for it. one is, to pay for it in bitcoin. via paying for txn. [21:42]
mircea_popescu another one is, to pay for it in fiat, via paying for disk space. [21:42]
mircea_popescu these are, obviously, both going to be employed, in some combination, because the thing is going to grow too huge to allow exclusivity [21:42]
mircea_popescu unrelated to all of this, a usg mole is proposing to change bitcoin into something unsustainable. [21:43]
mircea_popescu this is completely differet a matter, and it is not proper to mix it together in the consideration of an actual problem. it is not an actual problem. [21:43]
mircea_popescu to understand exactly the situation, you have camles and donkeys, and have to carry a billion tons of rubble. [21:43]
mircea_popescu it is one idea to discuss how to load the donkeyus and the camels respectively, to best do this. [21:44]
mircea_popescu it is ANOTHER discussion to propose that you pile all the donkeys on top of the camels and then throw the lot in the river. [21:44]
mircea_popescu both discuss camels and donkeys. both ARE NOT discussions of how to carry your rubble. [21:44]
mircea_popescu so : a) gavin is in no way involved in bitcoin development ; b) gavin's insanities have nothing to do with bitcoin's problems, and in no case are they solutions. as you'd expect of someone who has nothing to do with it in the first place. [21:46]
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bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: Do you have proof that Gavin and some USG mole is trying to implement some attack on bitcoin? What has made you come to this conclusion? [21:50]
mircea_popescu not gavin AND. [21:50]
mircea_popescu gavin's it. [21:50]
bitcoinquestions ah gavin is [21:50]
bitcoinquestions okay [21:50]
mircea_popescu what has made me come to this conclusion is neither here nor there. i am not proposing anything to you. i have made my own determinations, and if you inquire i tell you the reasons. that's how far that goes. [21:51]
bitcoinquestions Well I am inquiring what your reasons are [21:52]
mircea_popescu as above. [21:53]
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bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: Ah okay I reread and understand a little better I believe. But why do you assume you need to pay for more disk space in fiat? [21:57]
mircea_popescu yes, well... are you one of those who imagines bitpay "paid in bitcoin" for whatever sponsorship ? [21:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49824 @ 0.00040615 = 20.236 BTC [+] {2} [21:58]
mircea_popescu point remains : if the expansion is paid in bitcoin, whosoever wants to participate has to SELL fiast assets and buy bitcoin. [21:59]
mircea_popescu if on the other hand expansion is paid in "hard drives" chances are whosoevere wants to participate has to SELL bitcoin to buy fiat assets. [21:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13426 @ 0.00041313 = 5.5467 BTC [+] [21:59]
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mircea_popescu !up bitcoinquestions [22:03]
-assbot- You voiced bitcoinquestions for 30 minutes. [22:03]
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bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: Ah I see. Interesting. That is definitely the case as of today. That being said, let's say I create a company that is able to provide hard drive space for cheaper, but I only accepted payment in BTC. If this company existed would your opinion change? [22:03]
mircea_popescu how would this work ? you mean you manufacture the hard drives in house ? [22:04]
bitcoinquestions exactly [22:04]
mircea_popescu exactly schmexactly. there's a difference between the idle imagination of youth and the knowledge of men. for instance : i know but you don't know that the vast majority of hard drives are produced in the same few acres of asian shore. [22:04]
mircea_popescu and that at one point, when they had a flood, hard drive prices exploded on the market by a factor of 3 [22:05]
mircea_popescu which lasted for a summer. [22:05]
mircea_popescu and that if i or anyone else decides to bomb that place that's that for new hard drives for a decade or more. [22:05]
bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: alright fair enough, I was just proposing a hypothetical to make sure I understood your position. [22:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 5000 @ 0.00025459 = 1.273 BTC [+] {2} [22:09]
mircea_popescu how are you to make them ? where do you buy your raw materials for bitcoin ? where do you hire workers and pay them in bitcoin ? [22:10]
mircea_popescu on it goes. [22:10]
kakobrekla re that story https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze_drive_farming-2/ [22:11]
mircea_popescu forget that part and think of bandwidth. romania does not have this problem, but the us does. bandwidth accessibility is actually going down, not up, and it looks like it may go away entirely. [22:11]
bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: yeah man everyday I feel more and more that I need to get out of the US [22:12]
mircea_popescu so then do. [22:12]
mircea_popescu !s jews [22:12]
assbot 343 results for 'jews' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jews [22:12]
bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: It isn't that simple, I have loved ones etc. [22:14]
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mircea_popescu right. [22:14]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla not bad. [22:14]
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bitcoinquestions mircea_popescu: Another question I have for you. Are you happier when the BTC price goes up or when it goes down? [22:21]
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BingoBoingo !up GoMaD [22:27]
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bitcoinquestions I would do anything to be able to drive the price down because I'm collecting coins, but I was wondering whether or not there's a point where you are happy with your assets in terms of BTC and then just want to increase the value of the coins [22:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00039723 = 25.4029 BTC [-] [22:46]
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trinque bitcoinquestions: having loved ones is a good reason to get out of the US. [22:49]
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trinque !up bitcoinquestions [22:51]
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bitcoinquestions trinque: good point haha. Is this channel all in Romania? How is it there? [22:52]
trinque no, I live in the US; can't speak for the others [22:52]
BingoBoingo bitcoinquestions: This channel has rather good global coverage. Even Africa is included in regular participants. Asian participation is a bit lacking though. [22:52]
trinque I will say that listening to those familiar with the soviet collapse has been enlightening [22:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00039714 = 16.3026 BTC [-] {2} [22:55]
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cazalla anyone reading the hong kong 400m bitcoin loss and wondering why it's not on qntra, difficult to ascertain the facts on this one but it would appear hong kong media are clueless.. speaks to qntra's need for a chinese correspondent [23:04]
BingoBoingo https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/f19dded6e4bf6b5a345de899863310281846eb61 [23:10]
assbot Improve robustness of DER recoding code · f19dded · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dv287g ) [23:10]
trinque cazalla: interesting, I expected another coin theft but this looks like typical madoff [23:10]
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bitcoinquestions Does everyone in this channel code? [23:16]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.101 = 1.717 BTC [-] {3} [23:19]
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BingoBoingo trinque: Questions go so far as to whether the thing even existed/happened [23:20]
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BingoBoingo !up bitcoinquestions Depends on your definitions of everyone and code [23:22]
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bitcoinquestions by code I mean knows a little bit of python and by everyone I mean 75%+ [23:23]
bitcoinquestions (not python specifically but you get the point) [23:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92574 @ 0.00041313 = 38.2451 BTC [+] [23:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25789 @ 0.00041503 = 10.7032 BTC [+] [23:27]
BingoBoingo Well, It's still hard to say [23:31]
BingoBoingo Not everyone advertises everything [23:31]
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BingoBoingo Question for the foundation: When futzing with bitcoin sources to build more recent phoundation version, changing the constant in alert.cpp to garbage will keep a node so built from recognizing and/or passing a Gavin alert. Yes or no? [23:38]
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bitcoinquestions you guys run bitcoin 0.5.3? [23:42]
danielpbarron !s thebitcoin.foundation [23:43]
assbot 21 results for 'thebitcoin.foundation' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=thebitcoin.foundation [23:44]
assbot 3 results for 'pogostick' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogostick [23:44]
assbot 34 results for 'pogoplug' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogoplug [23:44]
BingoBoingo jurov: I'm fucking around on 0.8.6 two lines in alert.cpp in that version possess public keys for verifying "Upgrade Alerts". My gut is telling me that changing the public keys to garbage is going to be the quick dirty way to effectively neuter the alert system in the build. Figure each time I build change the garbage subbing for pubkeys. [23:45]
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assbot Satoshi 0.8.6/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/16Da1tX ) [23:54]
BingoBoingo Ah [23:55]
BingoBoingo Thanks [23:57]
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