Forum logs for 07 Feb 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
asciilifeform danielpbarron: your 'pogo' booted from external devices without replacing uboot ? [00:00]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: mine - did not [00:00]
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danielpbarron i followed the instructions on the archlinux page for pogo and it worked [00:03]
danielpbarron 'uboot' does not ring a bell [00:03]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: when thing powers up, it boots from the eeprom [00:03]
asciilifeform there is a boot partition there, containing an ancient version of 'uboot' [00:04]
asciilifeform (a kind of programmable bootloader, similar to 'lilo') [00:04]
asciilifeform the unit i have, had to be reflashed with a modern build of this, to boot from anywhere other than the kernel and root partitions in eeprom [00:05]
danielpbarron hm, mine was so easy to do i felt weird re-writing instructions for it [00:05]
asciilifeform ^ which can be rewritten easily [00:05]
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danielpbarron i used brand new unused hard drives.. is it possible that has anything to do with it? [00:06]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: nope [00:07]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but uboot is resident on the drive ? [00:07]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: you installed arch to the drive and booted to it, didntcha [00:07]
mircea_popescu oh [00:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: uboot is resident in the 128mb eeprom [00:07]
asciilifeform on pogo [00:07]
asciilifeform followed by a partition holding kernel [00:07]
asciilifeform followed by a similarly sized empty one [00:07]
mircea_popescu yeh he booted the drive. did you danielpbarron ? [00:07]
asciilifeform followed by root [00:07]
asciilifeform the root fs is a 'ubifs' [00:08]
asciilifeform (yet another fs optimized for fragile 'flash') [00:08]
asciilifeform dev: size erasesize name [00:09]
asciilifeform mtd0: 00200000 00020000 "u-boot" [00:09]
asciilifeform mtd1: 00300000 00020000 "uImage" [00:09]
asciilifeform mtd2: 00300000 00020000 "uImage2" [00:09]
asciilifeform mtd3: 00800000 00020000 "failsafe" [00:09]
asciilifeform mtd4: 07000000 00020000 "root" [00:09]
asciilifeform ^ layout [00:09]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: trinque: how do you propose to have the browser end run cl? << haha this i wanna see. clonqueror. [00:09]
trinque :( lol [00:09]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the cl rewrite of emacs, 'climacs', was almost usable [00:09]
trinque I-I just want to swim in a lake not filled with shit! [00:09]
danielpbarron the arch install occured on the pogo, if that's what you mean [00:09]
trinque but everything around me is a superfund site [00:09]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: yes, but it was able to boot from it after. [00:10]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: so possibly you got a slightly more recent fw than i [00:10]
mircea_popescu any way to check fw vers ? other than popping unit ? [00:10]
danielpbarron yeah it rebooted with no extra work needed [00:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: when the thing warms up, it dumps uboot ver. to the serial console [00:10]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron can oyu check an report ? [00:11]
asciilifeform other than that, one can take a snapshot: dd if=/dev/mtd0 of=turd.bin [00:11]
asciilifeform and throw in favourite hexeditor [00:11]
danielpbarron one of the steps in the arch install might have done something to the built in flash; i'm not sure to be honest [00:11]
danielpbarron it had me download a script and run it [00:11]
asciilifeform wai wat!?!! [00:11]
* asciilifeform did no such thing [00:11]
asciilifeform so you did reflash. with hell knows what. lol [00:11]
asciilifeform dollars to doughnuts, danielpbarron had a normal pogo [00:12]
mircea_popescu what is the arch install and how did it end up imported in here ? [00:13]
danielpbarron when i searched the log for pogo, i found that linked [00:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there was a public set of instructions for installing 'archlinux' for arm onto 'pogo'. [00:13]
asciilifeform i used the disk image from it [00:13]
danielpbarron i'm happy to experiment with alternatives [00:13]
mircea_popescu aha [00:13]
asciilifeform one ends up with a mindbogglingly-heavy ubuntu-style thing, complete with 'systemd' [00:14]
mircea_popescu okies, so basically he found a shortcut ? [00:14]
asciilifeform aha [00:14]
danielpbarron ya [00:14]
asciilifeform bash script that downloads and flashes in somebody's uboot [00:14]
mircea_popescu a shortcut through the mud [00:14]
* asciilifeform built the uboot from public sources [00:14]
asciilifeform using same crosscompiler as for everything else [00:14]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron for the sake of sanity, can you proceed closer to asciilifeform's original ? [00:14]
danielpbarron yes [00:14]
mircea_popescu nothing wrong with shortcuts in principle, but this one hurts. [00:15]
asciilifeform who could even imagine, an 800K bootloader! [00:15]
asciilifeform there's a complete shell in there [00:15]
asciilifeform and tcp/ip stack... [00:15]
asciilifeform helps in resurrecting a totally b0rk3d machine, yes [00:15]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i had some toast earlier, the toaster:~$ said :L) [00:15]
asciilifeform (you can pump in a fresh kernel with tftp) [00:15]
asciilifeform [00:16]
asciilifeform ^ it [00:16]
assbot WebHome < U-Boot < DENX ... ( ) [00:16]
asciilifeform used in perhaps 90% of the embedded net junk on the planet [00:18]
mircea_popescu << and the perennial question. [00:18]
assbot Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [00:18]
asciilifeform imho in the final turd we nuke it [00:18]
asciilifeform just have the thing load a straight linux kernel [00:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124711 @ 0.00041574 = 51.8474 BTC [+] {2} [00:19]
mircea_popescu "psycd is currently being refactored into a GNUnet service to run secushare on. The former psycd code is quite interesting, but currently unmaintained. " [00:19]
mircea_popescu am i a bad person for lulzing at this ? [00:19]
mod6 i just passed block 168,001 [00:19]
mircea_popescu mod6 took the whole day ?! [00:19]
mod6 am now on block 168,011 [00:20]
mod6 ah, na. [00:20]
mircea_popescu hm [00:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was an attempt at something like tor. [00:20]
mod6 i just got a chance to work on it again here now. [00:20]
mircea_popescu any idea what the hook was ? [00:20]
mod6 i upgraded openssl [00:20]
mircea_popescu o.O [00:20]
mircea_popescu from what to what ? [00:20]
mod6 root@debian-test:~# openssl version -a [00:20]
mod6 OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014 [00:20]
* asciilifeform picked a very arbitrary openssl [00:20]
mod6 from version... [00:20]
mod6 OpenSSL 0.9.8o [00:21]
mod6 which was from the orig debian 6 iirc [00:21]
mircea_popescu uh that's like 2010 ?! [00:21]
mircea_popescu 2009 even ? [00:22]
mod6 yeah. [00:22]
mircea_popescu sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011 [00:22]
mod6 it's old. this is what was included with ben's script to configure deb6. [00:22]
mircea_popescu whereas if you compile itwith more 2011 ish openssl itdoes ? [00:22]
mircea_popescu this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ? [00:23]
* asciilifeform did not test with anything other than the shortly post-heartbleed turdball specified in 'portatronic' [00:23]
mod6 so far. it's really weird still though, because i wasn't having this problem before. and we've always been using an old ssl. [00:23]
mircea_popescu might be a bug specific to the 9.8o but then that doesn't explain how all the others worked [00:23]
asciilifeform actually [00:24]
asciilifeform idea [00:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i am willing to bet there are over 1kbugs in this thing. all distinct. [00:24]
asciilifeform let's rip out openssl in the simplest way [00:24]
asciilifeform roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used. [00:24]
asciilifeform so, for example, we can see what they are. [00:24]
asciilifeform (with naked eye) [00:24]
mod6 [00:24]
assbot ... ( ) [00:24]
asciilifeform and then send them to hell [00:24]
asciilifeform and substitute in sanity. [00:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform can you be specific rather than rhetoric ? i dun follow [00:25]
asciilifeform specifically, [00:25]
mod6 so thats ^^^ my version of openssl on my aws instance, and i've sync'd successfully at lesat a dozen times in the last 4 months on there [00:25]
asciilifeform we snip out the #include [00:25]
mircea_popescu sigs won't verify. [00:25]
asciilifeform that's step 1 [00:25]
mircea_popescu oh oh oh i see [00:25]
asciilifeform step 2 is crypto.cpp/h [00:25]
mircea_popescu this is actually a worthy plan. [00:25]
mod6 and now wedges for some crazy reason. now I'm gonna upgrade to 1.0.1g there as well (just upgraded my deb6 on vbox vm to start with) and try to pass the wedge too. [00:25]
asciilifeform where the missing routines are then placed. [00:25]
mircea_popescu course also what the wunderbar vc boys are trying to do with their NOVEL inmplemetnation [00:26]
mircea_popescu you recall, the one that's so well tested apud gmaxwel [00:26]
asciilifeform i must confess [00:26]
asciilifeform that i was unable to make myself read the whole thing [00:26]
mircea_popescu openssl ? [00:26]
asciilifeform gavin's 0.10 [00:26]
mircea_popescu oh [00:26]
mircea_popescu nono, this is planned. lemme fish it out [00:26]
asciilifeform dove in once or twice to fish out the orphanage burn thing [00:27]
asciilifeform which had to be mutilated in six different ways to bolt onto 0.5.3 [00:27]
mircea_popescu < lulzy bits. [00:27]
assbot On why 0.10's release notes say "we have reason to believe that libsecp256k1 is better tested and more thoroughly reviewed than the implementation in OpenSSL" : Bitcoin ... ( ) [00:27]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> this is pretty massive if true. mod6 do you feel like testing for this insanity specifically ? << yes, im sure that i'll dig into this further [00:28]
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mircea_popescu << actually this is pretty good a point, seeing how the tit actually goes INTO the face. [00:29]
assbot Logged on 30-08-2014 22:56:02; asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.' [00:29]
mircea_popescu a true interface. [00:30]
trinque !b 2 [00:32]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:32]
mircea_popescu the one truely thing i deeply regret from 2014 [00:32]
mircea_popescu is how that spammer guy killed qntra and then bitcoin-assets. [00:32]
mircea_popescu i used to like dropping in on them now and again. [00:32]
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asciilifeform l0l [00:33]
mircea_popescu such is the fate of right wing movements tho, bereft of means and resources as they are. [00:33]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> roll in the five or six pieces that are actually used. << I want to collect some more data on this issue. But I'm open to discussing this option going forward. [00:33]
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asciilifeform mod6: simple algorithm: comment out the #includes [00:34]
mircea_popescu mod6 this issue is critical because it's easily the squishiest point of the whole protocol. [00:34]
asciilifeform mod6: and then add the routines back in until the thing builds again [00:34]
asciilifeform however [00:34]
mircea_popescu why the fuck we're importing from a different project - and THAT one in particular is anyone's guess [00:34]
asciilifeform you may end up pulling in much of the openssl turd in the process [00:34]
asciilifeform !s the spittoon [00:34]
assbot 9 results for 'the spittoon' : [00:34]
mircea_popescu and a sad testament to what you get stuck with if , like satoshi, have to jackbuild a house [00:35]
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asciilifeform is there a particular reason [00:38]
asciilifeform why the wallet is still in ? [00:38]
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mircea_popescu in what ? [00:39]
asciilifeform therealbitcoin. [00:39]
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mircea_popescu the reference implementation ? [00:40]
mircea_popescu how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ? [00:40]
asciilifeform i suppose that'd be why [00:40]
asciilifeform hm. [00:41]
mircea_popescu " My standard of comparison for any technology will always be everything previously achieved by mankind, rather than what is available on the market today." [00:41]
mircea_popescu this much is a solid approach. [00:41]
mod6 asciilifeform: One school of thought is to take the wallet, and place it outside of the R.I. as a seperate entity. [00:41]
mircea_popescu "do not tell me of what seems acceptable as an idea to pudgy people driving on the interstate towards connecticut. i do not care." [00:42]
mircea_popescu mod6 does that idea go as far as making bitcoin a sort of xserver ? [00:42]
mod6 something to that effect, perhaps. yes. [00:43]
mod6 where you can connect to 'bitcoind' with a wallet of your choosing. if that's what you mean. [00:43]
mircea_popescu like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ? [00:43]
asciilifeform idea that was spoken of was a hopper to throw signed tx in. [00:43]
asciilifeform [00:44]
assbot Logged on 23-10-2014 05:07:32; mircea_popescu: connected with serial cable << this from reading up on old mpex material ? [00:44]
asciilifeform ^ thread [00:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes but more generally speaking. [00:44]
mod6 right, then there was that whole discussion. [00:44]
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mod6 So, yeah, there are a number of topics that we look forward to discussing with you about future of the R.I. We'll get there. :] [00:48]
* mod6 does a data round-up & updates openssl on AWS instance [00:49]
mircea_popescu poor mod6 sounds exactly like buridan's ass :D [00:49]
asciilifeform back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ? [00:49]
danielpbarron oh btw, the pogo running with swap space hasn't crashed yet, currently at 87k [00:49]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron was it 2gb space ? [00:50]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform seems to be the report. [00:50]
danielpbarron yeah, slightly under after formatting [00:50]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> back to the boojum - do i misunderstand or did the thing unwedge when moved to 'modern' openssl ? << yup, that's what unwedged it. move from openssl v0.9.8o -> openssl 1.0.1g [00:50]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: blocks? [00:50]
danielpbarron yeah [00:51]
mod6 mircea_popescu: haha. [00:51]
mod6 yeah, some well thought out decisions to be made for sure. :) [00:52]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: as in how many ? [00:52]
mod6 im looking forward to that discussion, as well as the BDB removal discussion [00:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform re the "Have you ever actually used a speech recognition system to enter serious lengths of text? " line in your comments : i agree talking to a comp [00:52]
mircea_popescu hm, actually, woul you prefer i comment there ? [00:52]
danielpbarron asciilifeform, 88100 [00:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: either works [00:52]
mircea_popescu so i agree that talking to computers is loathsome. however, i often use note takers when speaking rather than writing myslelf. the latter explains the former. [00:53]
mircea_popescu the great utility of the scribe / secretary, rather than the tits, is that natural languages have piles and layers of redundancy built in. a good note taker is a cheap way to gain 50 to 100% speed and a decent 10 to 25% quality for very little cost. [00:53]
mircea_popescu BUT if the computer you are talking to is equally redundant and badly built, you are either an idiot or very very unfortunate. [00:54]
asciilifeform computer, as we have it, does not even know how to 'say that again plz' [00:54]
asciilifeform but merrily craps out garbage [00:54]
mircea_popescu a secretary that does that generally gets fired. [00:54]
mircea_popescu but! she can fix asonances!@ [00:54]
mircea_popescu if any good, she can go "you don't actually say that" [00:55]
mircea_popescu as in, "i've never heard it before" [00:55]
mircea_popescu etc. [00:55]
asciilifeform the secretary will know how to finesse the question [00:55]
mircea_popescu quite. [00:55]
mircea_popescu it's a job, and it earns its pay fairly. [00:56]
mircea_popescu but the reason itdoes is specifically - that recipient is not computer. [00:56]
asciilifeform << obligatory naggum [00:56]
assbot Re: Why a lisp OS? Re: Help required on Limitations of Lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [00:56]
asciilifeform ^ nothing to do with lisp, but with secretaries [00:56]
mircea_popescu also obligatory, wilde. "i will leave it to you to fix the ifs and thens and wherefores" [00:58]
mircea_popescu actually where's that great fry monologue. [00:59]
mircea_popescu [00:59]
assbot Stephen Fry Kinetic Typography - Language - YouTube ... ( ) [00:59]
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mircea_popescu (to dampen that : fry likes wilde more because wilde was a fag than because wilde was good. which he wasn't THAT good. but nevertheless, THIS point is sound in this context) [01:02]
asciilifeform so far it sounds like what orwell would've farted out in a paragraph [01:02]
asciilifeform but turned into a whole dance [01:03]
mircea_popescu very politically like minded, yes. [01:04]
mircea_popescu which of course in a different time would beg the snide question if orwell were ever married. [01:04]
asciilifeform was, interestingly [01:04]
mircea_popescu (note that this does not mean the same as "was ever married" in the slightest, which is the point) [01:05]
asciilifeform iirc at least 2x [01:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 242700 @ 0.00040201 = 97.5678 BTC [-] {3} [01:05]
mircea_popescu i thought he was a womanizer [01:06]
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asciilifeform iirc was, but it didn't leave any interesting material for archaeologists [01:07]
asciilifeform or if did, i'm unaware. [01:07]
mircea_popescu lol this naggum thing. jesus christ he's impossible to talk to. [01:13]
mircea_popescu at which point does the use of "seperate" in the original text suggest to him that he's dealing with a simple man with simple problems and he'd better stick to simpler solutions ? [01:13]
mircea_popescu there's two kinds of socialist minds in this world, the sort that expect all people to be equally stupid, and the sort that expect all people to be equally smart. [01:14]
mircea_popescu neither is good news. [01:15]
asciilifeform what was the 'simple man with simple programs' doing in comp.lang.lisp ? [01:17]
mircea_popescu looking for a nut. [01:17]
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asciilifeform mistook address ? [01:17]
asciilifeform lol [01:17]
mircea_popescu "according to a report in the Economist earlier this year, the cost of producing any piece of business communication dropped along with advances in computers from 1950 through 1980. from 1985 through 1995, it rose sharply enough to consume all earnings made since 1950. it is significantly more expensive to produce a business letter in 1997 than it was in 1950. despite many technological advances with a very high pri [01:17]
mircea_popescu ce tag, a secretary does not produce any more measurable output now than in 1950 -- in fact, the evidence suggests that obtaining _half_ the productivity of a 1950's secretary in 1997 is a major feat. the fact that managers write their own reports at down to 1/10th of the speed of a secretary that used to be paid 1/10th of their salary also means that the time spent producing a letter or a report can cost as much as 1 [01:17]
mircea_popescu 00 times more than it did in 1950, when managers scribbled unreadable notes and very quick and efficient typists corrected their spelling, grammer, and language and adhered to "company style" effortlessly." [01:17]
mircea_popescu now that... that is EXACTLY what i had in mind earlier. [01:17]
asciilifeform a sparrow caught in a microwave horn [01:17]
asciilifeform also mistook address [01:17]
asciilifeform speaking of which [01:18]
asciilifeform student puzzle [01:18]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform laugh if you will, but if pressed to come up with a definition of humanity, at least as an ideal object, the most sound i can think up is, "that collection of objects which construct relations which degrade gracefully" [01:18]
asciilifeform give a physical explanation, in one sentence, of why a trumpet/tube/microwave horn needs the 'bell'. [01:18]
mircea_popescu so... sparrow cooked, sure. simple man should be safe. [01:18]
asciilifeform naggum saw comp.lang.lisp as something more like a machine shop than a public square [01:19]
mircea_popescu even so. [01:19]
asciilifeform 'must be =this= tall to ride' [01:19]
mircea_popescu note that the guy wasn't actually making code changes [01:19]
mircea_popescu i guess perhaps he was in some definition [01:20]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform which part's the bell ? [01:21]
asciilifeform the end opposite from mouth [01:21]
asciilifeform (wide end) [01:21]
mircea_popescu not all of them actually end in a resonant chamber do they ? [01:22]
mircea_popescu im pretty sure i saw simple funel shapes [01:22]
asciilifeform funnel shapes also work [01:22]
asciilifeform answer (rot13) - gur ubea, va obgu pnfrf, zngpurf gur vzcrqnapr bs gur genafzvggre - zbhgu be zntargeba, rvgure - jvgu gung bs serr fcnpr. [01:25]
mircea_popescu "in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it." << and in this sense... their merging would be expected at about the time "most people" couldn't if press explain exactly what the ++ stand for. [01:27]
mircea_popescu ah hehe that's a good point. [01:28]
mircea_popescu i suppose "resonance chamber" isn't actually a good enough answer. [01:28]
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asciilifeform << solution for electromagnetic [01:35]
assbot Ask Dr. SETI: Characteristic Impedance of Free Space ... ( ) [01:35]
asciilifeform << for folks who must have prettyprinted equations [01:35]
assbot Impedance of Free Space - AstroBaki ... ( ) [01:35]
mod6 ok was able to pass 168,001 on my aws instance with configuration: openssl 1.0.1g + v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 } : [01:39]
assbot ... ( ) [01:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 152100 @ 0.00041249 = 62.7397 BTC [+] {2} [01:59]
asciilifeform ;;bc,stats [02:01]
gribble Current Blocks: 342354 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 6 hours, 4 minutes, and 26 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 44859627562.5 | Estimated Percent Change: 8.69034 [02:01]
asciilifeform 302465. [02:01]
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mircea_popescu "Engineering complexity is a form of environmental pollution; perhaps even the worst form of all, because it may yet turn out to be the case that it can kill whole civilizations, not just individual people." [02:04]
mircea_popescu actually this is a perfectly good motto. [02:04]
asciilifeform wherewasthis? [02:04]
* asciilifeform remembers and lolz [02:05]
mircea_popescu [02:05]
assbot Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( ) [02:05]
mircea_popescu i think you know him. [02:05]
asciilifeform ah. [02:05]
asciilifeform believe or not, that thread -still- gets comments. [02:06]
mircea_popescu it's a pretty good point anyway. [02:06]
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asciilifeform it's sorta the basic point of my site in a sentence. [02:07]
mircea_popescu " This of course adds the complexity to Clojure. The question is – does this acquired complexity worth it? I think it does. You gain a platform that is being poured thousands of man-hours every year into, you gain a GC that is being optimized for you, you gain the crossplatformity basically for free. You may call that opportunism but it works after all." [02:07]
mircea_popescu so if i fuck you, and you get pregnant, well... is it worth it ? [02:08]
mircea_popescu you get a baby for free [02:08]
mircea_popescu (tm) [02:08]
asciilifeform phree gipht. [02:08]
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mircea_popescu notwithstanding that you know... you gotta spend nine months eating for free [02:08]
mircea_popescu for two * [02:08]
mircea_popescu !up auscompgeek [02:08]
-assbot- You voiced auscompgeek for 30 minutes. [02:08]
* assbot gives voice to auscompgeek [02:08]
asciilifeform see also the original 'modest proposal' by swift. [02:09]
asciilifeform (is it still safe to assume that english speaking folks read it?) [02:09]
asciilifeform or did that also quietly walk away somewhere [02:09]
mircea_popescu [02:11]
assbot SICP Distilled by thattommyhall — Kickstarter ... ( ) [02:11]
mircea_popescu 723 backers £12,927 pledged of £3,500 goal 0 seconds to go [02:11]
asciilifeform paging herr bowdler! [02:11]
asciilifeform shakespeare distilled! [02:11]
mircea_popescu i guess it's almost done by now ? 6 months later ? [02:12]
asciilifeform i would have guessed that this is to be a 'cliff's notes' (american book series of ready-baked crib sheets for f-students) for sicp, but the latter is no longer (afaik) assigned in school [02:13]
asciilifeform so it can't be that [02:13]
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asciilifeform it was nowhere near this figure, iirc, when comment appeared [02:17]
mircea_popescu could it be just 25k worth of fraud which really "isn't all that much" especially seeing how "everyone deserves a living wage" ? [02:17]
asciilifeform but why -that- fraud [02:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 202250 @ 0.00041106 = 83.1369 BTC [-] {2} [02:18]
mircea_popescu you ever walk behind couples wondering why she chose THAT loser ? [02:20]
mircea_popescu a) she didn't choose ; b) you don't actually see a "that" there. [02:21]
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asciilifeform but still end up wondering in what circus the dwarf and giant met. [02:21]
mircea_popescu every one. [02:23]
mircea_popescu << blog, discontinued oct 9th [02:28]
assbot Everything is a Ghetto ... ( ) [02:28]
mircea_popescu << abandoned twitter detailing his idea [02:29]
assbot Looking for investment in my new startup "Facade". The model is simple, I take your money, do what I want for a year then you write it off [02:29]
mircea_popescu i guess ima write this up. [02:29]
asciilifeform the simplest possible chumpamatic. [02:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169061 @ 0.00041227 = 69.6988 BTC [+] {2} [02:31]
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* assbot removes voice from auscompgeek [02:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117300 @ 0.00040498 = 47.5042 BTC [-] [02:46]
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mircea_popescu !up Guest70720 [03:04]
-assbot- You voiced Guest70720 for 30 minutes. [03:04]
* assbot gives voice to Guest70720 [03:04]
mircea_popescu ello brenda. [03:04]
Guest70720 a [03:04]
Guest70720 hi now i can spam you like crazy for 30mins [03:04]
mircea_popescu wd. [03:05]
Guest70720 i'm still trying to understand how this irc thing works. I've been lurking for quite a while but mostly on the blogs and forums [03:06]
mircea_popescu start reading the logs. linked in the topic. [03:07]
Guest70720 they are endless, it's like reading the blockchain... [03:08]
mircea_popescu i think that's exactly what they're going for :) [03:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.00041438 = 26.5618 BTC [+] {2} [03:09]
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danielpbarron when i was in college, i sorta made a fool of myself by giving a presentation about irc in some computer class; the presentation was supposed to be about some online business we were supposed to have come up with in a semester. In retrospect, it was exactly the right thing to present; kids growing up without awareness of irc is not helping them [03:09]
mircea_popescu you think ? [03:10]
mircea_popescu ironically, irc was a big thing when i was a teen. then pretty much forgot about it. only rediscovered it in a frustrated attempt to make sense of the ever mounting idiocy that bitcoin appeared to be. [03:10]
mircea_popescu it stuck. [03:10]
danielpbarron hah same here [03:10]
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mircea_popescu [03:23]
assbot Logged on 24-02-2014 18:09:12; mircea_popescu: "So above you see pankkake continue to smear the company ActiveMining (by calling it an investment scam, associating it with the known 'LabCoin scam', saying the CEO is facing jail and accusing me of being a scammer (!)) after Ken publicly refused to pay pankkake's blackmail money demand." [03:23]
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mircea_popescu lol anyone remember active mining ? [03:23]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [03:26]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: heh i do. i actually made a buck on that scam. [03:27]
mircea_popescu [03:27]
assbot Acclaimed sci-fi writer exposed as notorious Internet troll ... ( ) [03:27]
mircea_popescu aawww, troll was a ... woman ?! ethnic ?! NOT POSSIBRU [03:27]
asciilifeform this was big [03:29]
asciilifeform in its particular zoo [03:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00040498 = 4.9813 BTC [-] [03:31]
mircea_popescu myeah [03:33]
mircea_popescu hey anyone remembers these bits i quoted some weeks ago about this woman that did a kickstarter-like thing for her oyung adult novel [03:33]
mircea_popescu and ended up pulling it because "internet is mean" ? [03:33]
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asciilifeform << ben_vulpes, BingoBoingo, others << my attempt at subtitling a certain memorable photo brag (not mine!). to enable the subs, click CC on bottom left hand corner (not the usual bottom right on youtube.) [03:43]
assbot Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( ) [03:43]
asciilifeform ^ and also sound starts muted for some reason. [03:43]
asciilifeform found video subbing tool, and though that there was a list of things i was once going to sub, but for some reason found in my notes only this. [03:44]
asciilifeform *thought [03:44]
* asciilifeform points out that the pictured scene is not his house. he only wishes it were. [03:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51350 @ 0.00040498 = 20.7957 BTC [-] [03:51]
* assbot gives voice to phillipsjk [03:53]
phillipsjk got me thinking about: [03:53]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 03:18:43; mircea_popescu: sooooo... on account of bitcoind recompiled with new openssl, actual bitcoind compiled with actual openssl as of 2009 does not pass blocks in 2011 [03:54]
assbot Proposed DERSIG BIP ... ( ) [03:54]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 17232 @ 0.0009048 = 15.5915 BTC [-] {43} [03:54]
mircea_popescu signatures are a major vulnerability. mostly because nobody in fucking crypto except for us understands the actual constraints. [03:55]
phillipsjk A careful reading of the logs shows that mod6 was careful to use the pre-f revision of debian SSL. [03:55]
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mircea_popescu yes. [03:55]
asciilifeform i pulled an openssl out of me arse [03:56]
asciilifeform but did warn! [03:56]
asciilifeform 'Until recently, OpenSSL's releases would accept various deviations from the DER standard and accept signatures as valid. When this changed in OpenSSL 1.0.0p and 1.0.1k, it made some nodes reject the chain.' - from the phoundation document linked above. [03:56]
* asciilifeform remembers this brouhaha, did not verify the claim personally [03:57]
phillipsjk "The requirement to have signatures that comply strictly with DER has been enforced as a relay policy by the reference client since v0.8.0, and very few transactions violating it are being added to the chain as of January 2015. In addition, every non-compliant signature can trivially be converted into a compliant one, so there is no loss of functionality by this requirement." [03:58]
phillipsjk I don't understand the complete implementation details, but how do they how to convert the signatures without messing with the merkle tree? Have a table of weird transactions? [03:59]
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phillipsjk oops can't grammar [03:59]
phillipsjk .... but how do they plant to canvert the signatures without... [03:59]
asciilifeform << to whoever was asking for winblows [04:00]
assbot Gerald Davis is wrong. Here's why. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [04:00]
mircea_popescu phillipsjk non compliant signatures are non compliant in trivial ways, [04:01]
mircea_popescu such as space padding [04:01]
phillipsjk It took me 3 tries to /msg assbot (mis-typed msg) [04:01]
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phillipsjk Is the space padding ignored when computing the merckle hash then? [04:01]
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mircea_popescu in this sense [04:02]
asciilifeform [04:03]
assbot Satoshi identifier search: VerifySignature ... ( ) [04:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207900 @ 0.00041561 = 86.4053 BTC [+] {6} [04:04]
mircea_popescu god damned i can't find this [04:04]
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asciilifeform iirc not ignored [04:08]
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mircea_popescu !up sypher_ [04:12]
-assbot- You voiced sypher_ for 30 minutes. [04:12]
* assbot gives voice to sypher_ [04:12]
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phillipsjk "As explained by Gavin Andersen on the forum - in order to calculate the ID hash of the Tx that is used in the Merkle Tree, one needs to SHA hash the whole Tx message as defined in the Protocol Specification wiki page twice." (second answer links to a diagram done by the Armory developer) [04:26]
assbot transactions - How to calculate a hash of a Tx? - Bitcoin Stack Exchange ... ( ) [04:26]
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phillipsjk etotheipi: "If you want to hash a Tx for ECDSA signing/verification, that's a whole different story (although, the link above also shows how to do that, too)." link: [04:29]
assbot On-the-wire byte map & OP_CHECKSIG diagram (knowledge donation!) ... ( ) [04:29]
phillipsjk See, there is some gold buried in the bitcointalk forum. Sifting through all the noise is a pain sometimes though. [04:30]
asciilifeform knowing what we know about the folks of the tardphorum, it is worth the while of anyone who actually gives a flying fuck, to consult the source. [04:31]
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phillipsjk The source does not have a graphical summary. You can think of it as a "map". Maps are known to be wrong on occasion. [04:36]
asciilifeform don't be the fellow who follows his 'gps' receiver off the derelict bridge and into the sea. [04:37]
* phillipsjk has never quite understood why geocaching is supposed to be exciting "because you don't know what $Gaint_Obstacle you will encounter!" [04:39]
phillipsjk I think GPS recievers include maps now, but still. [04:39]
asciilifeform not exciting at all with radio cheat. [04:39]
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asciilifeform exciting when done the proper way [04:40]
asciilifeform (practice for weapons cache emplacement and retrieval.) [04:40]
asciilifeform consult the literature. [04:40]
mircea_popescu ahhh finaly. [04:41]
phillipsjk I was in Cadets for a while, and liked map&compass. [04:41]
mircea_popescu [04:41]
assbot Logged on 12-01-2015 21:22:05; mircea_popescu: "4. You don't deserve to know any of that. It's none of your business. I invited my readers to chip in on a project--or not. I did not invite you to worm your nose into every aspect of my life, hunt down pictures of my home, call me names, or tell me I was worthless, arrogant, greedy, and undeserving. But you want to rip me bare and expose how awful you're sure I am. I get it, you wan [04:41]
mircea_popescu phillipsjk trusting summaries, especially when "graphical" is a sure path to perdition. [04:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126900 @ 0.00040187 = 50.9973 BTC [-] [04:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 424664 @ 0.00039968 = 169.7297 BTC [-] {6} [04:46]
mircea_popescu o.O [04:49]
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mircea_popescu "It's all crap. This SJW shit is the Tea Party of the left. " [04:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re: kickstarter article: ks is straight from the encyclopaedia of chumpatronic circuits, chapter 'make use of chumps directly in the machine’s control system.' as in 'multi-level' crapolade of every variety. [04:53]
mircea_popescu actually... the swj shit is what the left likes to think the tea party. [04:53]
mircea_popescu odd how this works [04:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform um. this seems to me just a completely inept, disorganised kid. [04:53]
asciilifeform referring to ks itself [04:53]
asciilifeform which laughs all the way to the bank whether man or monkey sits down and pens prospectus / collects. [04:54]
mircea_popescu surely. [04:54]
mircea_popescu and no doubt once they sell to facebook / washington mutual / obama's pubic hair, [04:54]
mircea_popescu they'll sell for way more than the gpg "dev" got to sell out the thing she doesn't represent. [04:55]
mircea_popescu and defo more than the lousy one year salary gavin got for attempting (and failing) some [04:55]
asciilifeform all that's missing is a usg-operated altcoin to go with it [04:55]
mircea_popescu (which incidentally makes me curious, if you get usg advance on promise to deliver and then fail to deliver, do you hjave to repay ? or go to jail ?) [04:55]
asciilifeform they'd pull whatever string was attached to the muppet [04:56]
asciilifeform until head comes off. [04:56]
asciilifeform (what string? ask gerald davis or any of the rest, i've no idea) [04:56]
asciilifeform maybe davis will tell us what it was if he finally recovers his courage and eats his luger on camera [04:57]
asciilifeform perhaps will say to the camera [04:57]
mircea_popescu there's always a fine excuse. [04:57]
mircea_popescu "i'm married - gotta make sure my kids have no better anything to look up to than i did" [04:57]
mircea_popescu or w/e. [04:57]
asciilifeform i'd bet it's a solid, tangible string [04:58]
asciilifeform at least for most of'em [04:58]
mircea_popescu doubt it [04:59]
mircea_popescu too expensive. [04:59]
* phillipsjk is too tired to be useful. [04:59]
mircea_popescu so go to bed! [04:59]
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mircea_popescu "I think that, like species, languages will form evolutionary trees, with dead-ends branching off all over. We can see this happening already. Cobol, for all its sometime popularity, does not seem to have any intellectual descendants. It is an evolutionary dead-end-- a Neanderthal language." [05:00]
mircea_popescu how the fuck can he write this. [05:00]
asciilifeform !up gabriel_laddel [05:02]
* assbot gives voice to gabriel_laddel [05:02]
mircea_popescu "Even when there were still plenty of Neanderthals, it must have sucked to be one. The Cro-Magnons would have been constantly coming over and beating you up and stealing your food." [05:02]
gabriel_laddel ty [05:02]
mircea_popescu what cro-magnon ever beat up a neandhertal ?! [05:02]
mircea_popescu wtf, global warming retroeffects. [05:02]
gabriel_laddel [05:03]
asciilifeform ancient hypothesis where the former ate up the latter [05:03]
assbot Re: Representing code as XML: the Flare Programming Language - Naggum cll archive ... ( ) [05:03]
gabriel_laddel ^ related [05:03]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: have you grokked the "why" of lisp yet? [05:03]
mircea_popescu have i ended up like the lisp heathen or something ? [05:04]
gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: nah, I'm writing something now for other reasons, will link when finished if you've not. [05:04]
mircea_popescu i think it's a fine language! i just don't have anything to do in it. [05:04]
gabriel_laddel lolk [05:04]
gabriel_laddel I'll take that as "no". [05:04]
mircea_popescu imagine me like a guy that has no poem to write. k ? so i don't write in italian. splendid language for the best of poems, and even for talking melodicly about the tv shows. [05:05]
* asciilifeform 'didn't have anything to do in it' likewise for first decade or so of knowing [05:05]
mircea_popescu but...i ain't got much to say [05:05]
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mircea_popescu i don't write any c, either, or c++. i've never written either java or javascript. i sometimes to a little bash, and always to dig up natural language strings in natural language dialects. or otherwise mess the mup. [05:06]
mircea_popescu i guess i mostly use bash to php in. [05:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu would probably have enjoyed snobol. [05:08]
asciilifeform [05:08]
assbot Snobol Language ... ( ) [05:08]
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punkman too much log! [05:08]
asciilifeform (no, not 'cobol for snob', as i once thought as a kid) [05:08]
mircea_popescu lol. i think we did something with it in school. dun recall so well. [05:08]
mircea_popescu but in any case - i'm perhaps the worst market for any language. sort-of like a grasshopper is no market for leather goods. [05:08]
asciilifeform i may never have sat down to play with it had the library not thrown out (yes) the only book on it therein. [05:08]
punkman << that's what I have, wedges [05:09]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 03:16:39; mod6: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014 [05:09]
asciilifeform punkman: on what ? [05:09]
asciilifeform pogo ? [05:09]
punkman oh wait, mine is 1.0.1e [05:09]
punkman asciilifeform: debian 7, x86 [05:10]
mircea_popescu bitcoin - error only counts if generated by the right software on the right hardware on the right data spot. [05:10]
mircea_popescu otherwise, absent one of 3, it's "normal" [05:10]
mircea_popescu such we've progressed... [05:10]
asciilifeform l0l [05:10]
asciilifeform [05:10]
asciilifeform ^ scan [05:10]
assbot ... ( ) [05:10]
asciilifeform obligatory for all serious weirdlang aficionados. [05:10]
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asciilifeform it's a bell labs product incidentally. [05:11]
asciilifeform 1968. [05:11]
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punkman worrydream fella has some interesting stuff [05:14]
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punkman I remember his "The Future of Programming" talk, made me sad [05:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78850 @ 0.00039259 = 30.9557 BTC [-] [05:15]
mircea_popescu sad because you thought "one day i too will be stupid and senile like graham" ? [05:16]
asciilifeform 'worrydream' is not graham [05:16]
punkman sad because he shows cool things that we threw away [05:16]
asciilifeform punkman: my www is largely about these particular things. [05:18]
* asciilifeform to bed [05:18]
punkman asciilifeform: yes I have perused (even before #b-a ;) [05:18]
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punkman [05:20]
assbot Bret Victor - The Future of Programming on Vimeo ... ( ) [05:20]
mircea_popescu oh i had the wrong talk :p [05:22]
mircea_popescu [05:22]
assbot The Hundred-Year Language ... ( ) [05:22]
punkman [05:29]
assbot Cheap Smartphone Dongle Diagnoses HIV And Syphilis In 15 Minutes | IFLScience ... ( ) [05:29]
punkman "Matt Green, a professor specializing in cryptography at Johns Hopkins University, said he has looked at the GnuPG source code and found it in such rough shape that he regularly assigns chunks of it to his students for review. At the end I ask how they felt about it and they all basically say: 'God, please I never want to do something like this again'" [05:32]
punkman "It's not maintained by enough people, given how big it is, and it contains a lot of old cruft that should be gotten rid of. When it got re-engineered from version 1 to version 2, version 2 got re-engineered in this abstract way [so] that it's hard to figure out what's going on on the back end." [05:32]
* assbot removes voice from gabriel_laddel [05:32]
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punkman << possible candidate [05:35]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 03:20:14; asciilifeform: let's rip out openssl in the simplest way [05:36]
assbot kmackay/micro-ecc · GitHub ... ( ) [05:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62850 @ 0.00039571 = 24.8704 BTC [+] [05:36]
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mircea_popescu heh. [05:37]
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mircea_popescu << it occurs to me he had a point. [05:43]
assbot Guide To Setting Up A Remote Bitcoin Node For $20 Per Year | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [05:43]
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mircea_popescu anyone remember bluemeanie ? [05:47]
assbot BlueMeanie Blog. Cryptocurrency / Cryptofinance ... ( ) [05:47]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:21]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [13:21]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [13:21]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [13:21]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [13:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173600 @ 0.00041904 = 72.7453 BTC [+] {2} [13:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31175 @ 0.00041915 = 13.067 BTC [+] [13:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64567 @ 0.00041974 = 27.1014 BTC [+] {3} [13:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 214450 @ 0.00042114 = 90.3135 BTC [+] {2} [14:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 176093 @ 0.00041074 = 72.3284 BTC [-] {2} [14:18]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell peterl dead scoopbot ? [14:22]
gribble The operation succeeded. [14:22]
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mircea_popescu heh 2012. [14:34]
assbot The left trying to steal yet another word pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [14:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82500 @ 0.00041783 = 34.471 BTC [+] [14:41]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00041783 = 5.3273 BTC [+] [14:46]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121381 @ 0.00041783 = 50.7166 BTC [+] [14:47]
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mircea_popescu "I have little direct evidence about the atrocities in the Spanish civil war. I know that some were committed by the Republicans, and far more (they are still continuing) by the Fascists. But what impressed me then, and has impressed me ever since, is that atrocities are believed in or disbelieved in solely on grounds of political predilection. Everyone believes in the atrocities of the enemy and disbelieves in those o [14:53]
mircea_popescu f his own side, without ever bothering to examine the evidence. Recently I drew up a table of atrocities during the period between 1918 and the present; there was never a year when atrocities were not occurring somewhere or other, and there was hardly a single case when the Left and the Right believed in the same stories simultaneously. And stranger yet, at any moment the situation can suddenly reverse itself and yeste [14:53]
mircea_popescu rday's proved-to-the-hilt atrocity story can become a ridiculous lie, merely because the political landscape has changed." [14:53]
mircea_popescu aww, global warming -> climate change is not a trope creator ?! WHO KNEW!!! [14:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 115103 @ 0.00040913 = 47.0921 BTC [-] {2} [14:56]
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* assbot gives voice to adlai [15:00]
adlai << for it to be worth my time at this amount, i'd want half the profit. [15:00]
assbot Logged on 05-02-2015 01:27:14; mircea_popescu: well, if you make a f.mpif pc and report your trades, say daily, and submit monthly sum reports, i dunno, 10 ? [15:00]
mircea_popescu nah, first timers get a few % of the profit, and at the end of a whole year. [15:01]
adlai or 100% of the profit from using my own 10btc [15:01]
adlai i'd make a more reasonable offer for a more attractive amount of capital [15:01]
mircea_popescu yes, and the oppoortunity to have the same problem in 2016. [15:02]
mircea_popescu you're not getting any younger you know. [15:02]
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mircea_popescu but, apart from that, your life, live it as you think fit. [15:02]
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pete_dushenski [15:02]
assbot Venus in Fur | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [15:02]
pete_dushenski ^took in a play ostensibly about domination and submission last night [15:03]
* adlai is one of the youngest folks around here, to his knowledge... [15:04]
pete_dushenski interesting idea and even some shining moments, but the script was out to post-post-modern lunch [15:04]
mircea_popescu Alana Hawley would be a great porn star name. [15:04]
pete_dushenski having been written in the last decade, though, it's no huge surprise that venus in fur was timid at best [15:04]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu yup [15:05]
pete_dushenski if only she were a little more physical [15:05]
pete_dushenski it was so strange to see an apparently confident woman be so physically inept [15:06]
pete_dushenski as if confidence didn't translate into the real world [15:06]
pete_dushenski but was merely something to be believed in one's own head [15:06]
mircea_popescu it was so strange to see an apparently confident woman be so physically inept <<< this is quite a problem, yes. [15:07]
pete_dushenski maybe it was just the pussy director keeping the actors so reigned in [15:07]
adlai << this works, low volume but still enough to profit. haven't tried paymium yet but volume there is still very low. what about buttfinex? [15:07]
assbot Logged on 05-02-2015 13:21:22; jurov: perhaps i can look into kraken [15:07]
jurov adlai you know buttfinex's history [15:08]
mircea_popescu i can't begin to imagine how people think actresses are to be taken seriously if it's plain obvious that should a drill sargeant manifest and yell "STRIP!" she'd start trembling like an eight year old. [15:08]
jurov ? [15:08]
* adlai isn't aware of a major exchange that with a satisfactory history [15:08]
adlai jurov: but which specific episode are you referring to? [15:08]
jurov well, not all of them are based on reusing previously published gnarly code [15:09]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu which is precisely what the male protagonist bemoans in the opening scene of the play [15:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 135355 @ 0.00040262 = 54.4966 BTC [-] [15:09]
pete_dushenski only to fall head over heels for a slightly more verbose version of the same thing [15:09]
* adlai has lost money from garbage data spewed by finex's "trading engine" during extreme load... but he's also making >⅓% daily there, which has its charms [15:09]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski part of your disbelief also comes from you thinking in plain terms of d/s whereas the show seems to be thought more in terms of "a coupla switches get together". [15:10]
pete_dushenski for those interested, venus in fur is apparently playing pretty well everywhere these days [15:10]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu that isn't implausible [15:11]
pete_dushenski this isn't my area of expertise and i'm working from my own understanding of human motivations [15:11]
pete_dushenski and i think my reservation lies mostly in the lack of commitment [15:12]
pete_dushenski the flimsiness of either role [15:12]
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mircea_popescu pete_dushenski to quote adlai above, as far as the young actors are concerned, "it'd take half the theatre to make it worth their while" :D [15:13]
adlai [15:14]
assbot Logged on 05-02-2015 01:19:42; mircea_popescu: adlai: why does it have to test on actual live-fire btc anyway? << so he can make a buck ? [15:14]
* adlai shrugs [15:14]
jurov adlai you know, risk assessment. [15:14]
jurov and if this is going to mpif, default is not really viable [15:14]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu never sleeps [15:14]
thestringpuller i believe mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are robots [15:14]
mircea_popescu i just woke up yo. [15:15]
mircea_popescu !up Dimsler [15:15]
-assbot- You voiced Dimsler for 30 minutes. [15:15]
* assbot gives voice to Dimsler [15:15]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu lol i guess so [15:15]
jurov if it was extra asset with stipulation "if buttfinex fails, tough luck" then that's naother thing [15:15]
pete_dushenski the world doesn't revolve around me, i'm told [15:15]
Dimsler lol looks like mircea made it on reddit on the feminist board [15:15]
mircea_popescu i wut ? [15:15]
adlai this is actually why i suggested that for an mpif pc, it'd make the most sense to run the bot on s.mpoe itself [15:15]
Dimsler someone was quoting your womens studies article [15:16]
mircea_popescu link ? [15:16]
jurov so, let's do s.mpoe first then [15:18]
jurov and i can submit company papers to kraken and we'll see. but it will need really good agreement as to who is liable [15:19]
mircea_popescu eh, and you'll enforce a really good agreement how ? [15:20]
* adlai would rather not be liable for ancient sea creatures running off with your bit-gold. placing bad trades is another matter, but this is measurable with much more resolution than solvency [15:29]
adlai amazing how this thing just keeps running while i'm in here, almost like it's not human [15:30]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [15:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97737 @ 0.00040239 = 39.3284 BTC [-] {2} [15:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 126786 @ 0.00040136 = 50.8868 BTC [-] {2} [15:51]
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danielpbarron [16:00]
assbot Women's prison mass jail break after inmates in dominatrix gear handcuff male guards expecting 'mass orgy' - Mirror Online ... ( ) [16:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65600 @ 0.00040679 = 26.6854 BTC [+] [16:02]
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mircea_popescu no way. [16:03]
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mircea_popescu ahahaha this actually happened ?! [16:04]
mircea_popescu [16:06]
assbot ... ( ) [16:06]
mircea_popescu seems its bs. [16:06]
danielpbarron aw :< [16:08]
mircea_popescu all hits on Bruno Amorim that are relevant to this story come from [16:10]
mircea_popescu not likely this'd have happened and no mention in spanish/portuguese press. [16:10]
asciilifeform ;;bc,stats [16:12]
gribble Current Blocks: 342460 | Current Difficulty: 4.127287389469702E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 342719 | Next Difficulty In: 259 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 11 hours, 55 minutes, and 50 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 45174899518.4 | Estimated Percent Change: 9.45421 [16:12]
asciilifeform 305112. [16:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74400 @ 0.00040756 = 30.3225 BTC [+] {2} [16:13]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1700 @ 0.00092475 = 1.5721 BTC [+] {9} [16:16]
asciilifeform punkman: micro-ecc << very interesting. mainly in that it is actually small enough to read. [16:18]
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asciilifeform Cheap Smartphone Dongle Diagnoses HIV And Syphilis In 15 Minutes << sham. not in that the tech doesn't work (it does) but in that it is the ordinary single-shot immunoreactive test, but for some (chumpatronic) reason someone bolted it on to a pNohe. [16:19]
asciilifeform likewise, device requiring drops of blood is a nonstarter from the perspective of thermonuking the contagion. [16:20]
asciilifeform that requires 'spit in cup, five seconds' [16:20]
asciilifeform (see old thread on the subject) [16:20]
mircea_popescu saliva syphilis testing is like from 1966 [16:21]
asciilifeform afaik nobody gives a damn re: syphilis today. [16:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78597 @ 0.00041154 = 32.3458 BTC [+] [16:21]
mircea_popescu half the claim in article. [16:21]
mircea_popescu but anyway hiv is not ever going to be diagnosable in saliva. [16:21]
mircea_popescu might as well insist you find burglars by inspecting livestock exclusively. [16:22]
asciilifeform immunoreactive test at ppb concentration is not a wholly outlandish concept [16:22]
mircea_popescu think what ppb concentrations mean. [16:22]
mircea_popescu is it possible through pure chance to miss an infection because it just didn't happen to go to saliva ? [16:22]
asciilifeform parachute also can fail, yes. [16:23]
mircea_popescu not by any means to the same degree. [16:23]
mircea_popescu at the size of the proteins involved, there's not really THAT many billion units in a saliva sample. [16:23]
mircea_popescu your test will probably be in the double digit failure rate, which is laughable. i suspect it is impossible for chemodynamic reasons to make it single digit, which makes it impractical [16:24]
mircea_popescu which is why attempts aren't really pursued/financed. [16:24]
asciilifeform quite possibly. [16:24]
mircea_popescu at least it's my off the cuff math [16:24]
asciilifeform on other hand, we aren't looking for the virus. [16:25]
asciilifeform but for the antibodies. [16:25]
mircea_popescu they are still large, and not particularly saliva bound. [16:25]
asciilifeform so concentrations of virus in fluid for the purpose of transmission - yes, extremely low to none [16:25]
mircea_popescu logically, the antibodies are not often found where the virus is not often found. the human machine is still a machine, trying to be economical if possible. [16:26]
asciilifeform [16:26]
asciilifeform apparently, commercial SOP [16:26]
* asciilifeform is behind the times [16:27]
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mircea_popescu "This is due, in part, to variations in the type and volume of oral sample collected, how the sample is handled prior to testing, the concentration of immunoglobulin (Ig) G present, and if testing methods have been modified to accommodate the use of oral fluids. In early studies that reported poor sensitivity, whole saliva was used and there was little consideration for the volume and condition of the sample needed and [16:28]
mircea_popescu the choice of screening assays employed. For this reason, investigators have developed specialized collection devices that enhance the level of antibodies, particularly IgG, in oral specimens, ensure sufficient specimen volume, and include reagents to prevent microbial growth and proteolytic breakdown of antibodies. In general, this has been accomplished by collecting oral fluids enriched in gingival crevicular fluid [16:28]
mircea_popescu and mucosal transudate, which possess increased levels of IgG relative to saliva" [16:28]
mircea_popescu a) it's not "spit in cup" and b) it still doesn't really work. [16:28]
mircea_popescu also, this is all positive testing. what you want is negative testing. entirely different beasts. [16:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 5257 @ 0.00021898 = 1.1512 BTC [+] {2} [16:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87100 @ 0.00041321 = 35.9906 BTC [+] [16:39]
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punkman asciilifeform: punkman: micro-ecc << very interesting. mainly in that it is actually small enough to read. << speaking of small things... [16:57]
punkman netbsd has a pgp implementation [16:57]
punkman [16:57]
assbot NetPGP - digital signatures and encryption ... ( ) [16:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106700 @ 0.00041362 = 44.1333 BTC [+] [16:58]
punkman I assume this has less baggage [16:58]
mircea_popescu if someone feels like reading it... [16:59]
punkman speaking of baggage, there is a type of gpg packet that can cause an infinite loop in version 1.4.16 and before [17:01]
punkman (been there since 1999) [17:02]
danielpbarron speaking of netbsd; that's what i'm researching as a candidate to replace archlinux for the pogo [17:06]
asciilifeform netpgp << appears to use openssl... [17:10]
adlai << i'm interested in doing this, but it requires either collaboration with an mpex account holder, or the fabled coinbr api... [17:10]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 18:14:06; jurov: so, let's do s.mpoe first then [17:10]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: netbsd on pogo << last i checked, lacked support for internal eeprom [17:10]
asciilifeform danielpbarron: which is a deal-killer [17:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107838 @ 0.00041422 = 44.6687 BTC [+] {3} [17:12]
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mircea_popescu adlai i think pretty much the entirety of the problem stems from your outright bizarre expectation that bitcoin will somehow suit you. the correct approach is exactly the opposite : change yourself to suit exactly. [17:13]
mircea_popescu it's not "a technology", specifically in that it's not made to serve man. [17:13]
mircea_popescu it's a discovery. it bends future behaviour. [17:14]
adlai don't worry, i believe the same nonsense about my discovery [17:15]
asciilifeform confirmed, netpgp uses openssl for the actual maths. [17:15]
asciilifeform into the skip, it goes. [17:15]
asciilifeform had to spend a grand total of two minutes reading, to learn this. [17:16]
adlai also i don't follow why you think that i have this expectation, or that it affects my problem(s) [17:16]
* adlai has more than one! [17:16]
* adlai wonders why so many programmers are like "Math is hard!" barbie [17:16]
* asciilifeform shrugs, also doesn't know [17:16]
mircea_popescu adlai nothing wrong with it. [17:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's because math is scary, not hard. [17:17]
mircea_popescu programmers are, by and large, social sciences rejects. [17:17]
mircea_popescu they know enough to steer away from those places where they can most easily be caught being stupid. [17:18]
mircea_popescu your average soviet bureaucrat would avoid committing to paper as much as 1+1=2 , if he could get away with it. and sensibly so, because... you never know. [17:18]
asciilifeform but from where comes the fear, when no one is looking and the maths are safely under your blanket in the cover of night ? [17:18]
mircea_popescu same deal with your average programmer. [17:18]
mircea_popescu from the fact that they MIGHT [17:18]
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asciilifeform l0l [17:19]
mircea_popescu a slightly pudgy 37 yo woman in iowa is not slinking towards her car in a parking lot among crickets because she is going to get raped [17:19]
adlai well you can catch yourself being stupid before you "open your mouth and remove all doubt", although i guess it's harder the stupider you get [17:19]
mircea_popescu by any one of the 0.05 people present on the same square mile [17:19]
mircea_popescu adlai equally harder the smarter you get. [17:19]
asciilifeform it's one thing to sign a freshly-packet parachute with your blood, swearing 'i am responsible for this, whatever happens' [17:20]
asciilifeform another matter entirely to lazily play game 'paratrooper' [17:20]
mircea_popescu you don't understand how narcissism works :) [17:20]
adlai khaneman has a chapter on this, tl;dr is that a good "expert" is one who knows when to mistrust expert intuition [17:20]
mircea_popescu game much more serious, because not being the work self, it actually therefore must be... THE REAL ME [17:20]
asciilifeform that's kinda how i pictured the narcissism working - you play 'paratrooper' and imagine that you are in fact a ww2 hero [17:21]
mircea_popescu no, you imagine specifically that you aren't, and that this is specifically why it matters. [17:21]
mircea_popescu ANYONE Could be an actual star/paratrooper/president if they actually tried. [17:21]
mircea_popescu however... not trying it, is the real performance. [17:21]
* asciilifeform probably needs to reread tlp, because he finds this a little confusing [17:22]
mircea_popescu italians, as their states were disintegrating, called this spezzatura [17:22]
mircea_popescu a good word to look up in period italian literature. [17:22]
mircea_popescu sprezzatura* [17:23]
asciilifeform the 'work self' thing i remember, but still find it bizarre [17:26]
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adlai mircea_popescu: i still don't follow why you say [17:33]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 20:09:21; mircea_popescu: adlai i think pretty much the entirety of the problem stems from your outright bizarre expectation that bitcoin will somehow suit you. the correct approach is exactly the opposite : change yourself to suit exactly. [17:33]
mircea_popescu aha. [17:34]
* adlai doesn't have this expectation [17:34]
mircea_popescu how do you know this ? [17:35]
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adlai if it's an unconscious expectation, then i'm not conscious of having it :) [17:36]
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mircea_popescu :) [17:37]
asciilifeform let's imagine that holy grail, room-temperature superconductor, were discovered tonight [17:38]
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mircea_popescu let's. [17:38]
asciilifeform would folks 'have the expectation that room-temp supercon will work for them' ? [17:38]
mircea_popescu depends. [17:38]
asciilifeform if anything, they may (depending on inclinations) cower in feat of the inevitable laser pistol battles [17:38]
asciilifeform or, alternatively, relish the notion of lasers-at-dawn [17:38]
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asciilifeform but does this resolve to 'will work for them' ? [17:39]
asciilifeform *in fear [17:39]
mircea_popescu well, let me change this from something we don't know to something we do know. [17:39]
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mircea_popescu when the airplane came about, everyone hailed it as a "great civilizing factor" [17:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113600 @ 0.00042125 = 47.854 BTC [+] {3} [17:39]
mircea_popescu the generalexpectation being, that it will meld into people's lives as they are, making them more so. [17:39]
mircea_popescu you aware of this ? [17:40]
asciilifeform paging herr orwell.. [17:40]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, by 1950 the vast majority of the utility of planes was dropping bombs on people's heads. [17:40]
mircea_popescu the plane CHANGED their life. it didn't come about to make 1900 a more-1800-than-1800. [17:40]
asciilifeform 'Some months ago, in this column, I pointed out that modern scientific inventions have tended to prevent rather than increase international communication. This brought me several angry letters from readers, but none of them were able to show that what I had said was false. They merely retorted that if we had Socialism, the aeroplane, the radio, etc. would not be perverted to wrong uses. Very true, but then we haven’t Soc [17:40]
asciilifeform ialism. As it is, the aeroplane is primarily a thing for dropping bombs and the radio primarily a thing for whipping up nationalism. Even before the war there was enormously less contact between the peoples of the earth than there had been thirty years earlier, and education was perverted, history rewritten and freedom of thought suppressed to an extent undreamed of in earlier ages. And there is no sign whatever of these te [17:40]
asciilifeform ndencies being reversed.' [17:40]
mircea_popescu it came about to "fuck you louise, go in the air shelter and sit there" [17:40]
mircea_popescu and to "fuck you charlie, read or don't read but the light stays out" [17:41]
mircea_popescu and so on and so forth. [17:41]
asciilifeform aha. [17:41]
mircea_popescu charlie going "i am willing to work with planes as long as either the light stays on or x or y" [17:41]
asciilifeform so this. [17:41]
mircea_popescu is well... laughable. good luck wioth that, you only have one life and when that's finished there you go. [17:41]
asciilifeform obligatory: [17:41]
assbot Paleofuture - Paleofuture Blog ... ( ) [17:41]
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asciilifeform and, related to above thread, [17:43]
assbot Logged on 19-03-2014 17:33:21; asciilifeform: people don't seem to grasp the fact that the situation in 'shall be delivered' is as inevitable as that first street drunk who electrocuted himself in the 1870s (?) [17:43]
mircea_popescu quite. [17:44]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1119 @ 0.00092474 = 1.0348 BTC [-] {3} [17:59]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: perhaps the historical picture in my head is incomplete, but i just can't grasp the portrait of orwell as cockless worm. [18:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the ruling elite of his time/place showed every symptom of having 'lost the mandate of heaven', to use the chinese term of art tailor made for this [18:01]
asciilifeform what political tack would you imagine he'd have taken, if he had not been a lamer (as pictured in your article) ? [18:04]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97050 @ 0.00041582 = 40.3553 BTC [-] [18:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95600 @ 0.00041767 = 39.9293 BTC [+] {2} [18:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.QNTR] 12624 @ 0.00022571 = 2.8494 BTC [+] [18:58]
ben_vulpes [] and you had to rent the state company ones// coming soon to us, internet public utility will make it so << pretty much here already in the states [19:00]
danielpbarron ben_vulpes, did you just try to connect to my node? [19:00]
ben_vulpes no sir [19:00]
ben_vulpes i'm reading logs from days past, not hacking [19:01]
danielpbarron heh, someone did, and it's not configured to serve blocks at the moment [19:01]
danielpbarron hey at those QNTR prices, I made ~5 bucks per article i wrote. not bad :D [19:04]
danielpbarron better than refreshing a faucet [19:04]
ben_vulpes great intangibles [19:09]
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ben_vulpes * asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages << i worked with a database with queries in datalog recently. [19:16]
ben_vulpes "datomic" [19:16]
ben_vulpes a real joy to work with [19:16]
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ben_vulpes ;later tell sergiohlb your cloak is getting applied *after* you join [19:18]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell sergiohlb your cloak is getting applied *after* you join [19:18]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:18]
trinque how many countries have to be fighting a war for the phrase "world war" to apply? [19:20]
* trinque starts catching up on news [19:20]
trinque ben_vulpes: good afternoon! [19:20]
* ben_vulpes curls tighter into a hangover ball [19:21]
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trinque lol [19:21]
adlai by that logic, world war iii is the 'war on drugs' [19:23]
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ben_vulpes [] interesting idiots are sometimes (temporarily) tolerated. tedious idiots - never. << /me waves [19:30]
adlai [] really is getting quite tedious [19:31]
* adlai is a fan of dropping in a url and letting assbot do the heavy lifting [19:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26150 @ 0.00041039 = 10.7317 BTC [-] {2} [19:46]
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ben_vulpes [] actually i'm kinda half curious how many us based conf attendants discover at the border that the newly expanded tsa doth not agree their passport holds any value. << me too. [19:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 185100 @ 0.00041726 = 77.2348 BTC [+] {2} [20:01]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: failure of imagination ^ here. more interestingly, we could, say, go on a 'disappearing' plane. or, more comically, turned out on the return leg: 'we've never heard of you, go and starve in mexico city where you came from' [20:01]
ben_vulpes i've a feeling argentina'd welcome me with open arms. [20:01]
* asciilifeform glad for ben_vulpes's good fortune [20:02]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i don't buy the malicious usg. thing is purely reactive, and only within the logic of itself. [20:02]
* asciilifeform wonders what ben_vulpes is still doing in his jail [20:02]
ben_vulpes join "anonymous", go on watch list [20:02]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: shorting shartups [20:03]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: filling tank [20:03]
ben_vulpes mod6, asciilifeform: forgive my naivte, but what's the recommended approach to efficiently toggling between versions of libs for compiling cturds? in particular, ssl for bitcoind. [20:06]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: study the example in 'portatronic' [20:07]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: limiting the conversation to gcc variants, the command line lib and include flags take precedence for search paths [20:07]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: see the vars set in; then look at the top of makefile.unix (bitcoind) [20:08]
asciilifeform where LIBS is set [20:08]
asciilifeform ditto for DEFS [20:09]
asciilifeform the act of toggling versions of libs breaks into these two things, headers (.h) and the libs themselves (for linker.) [20:09]
ben_vulpes gotcha [20:10]
asciilifeform if anyone is confused about this mechanism, please say. because it is quite central to the whole thing. [20:10]
ben_vulpes i start to understand how badly the c toolchain messes with ones head [20:11]
ben_vulpes there are all of these things that make sense in the context of it, but... [20:11]
asciilifeform in the list of miseries of c/cpp work, this is somewhere near the very bottom. [20:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56039 @ 0.00042148 = 23.6193 BTC [+] [20:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36361 @ 0.00042309 = 15.384 BTC [+] [20:13]
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ben_vulpes right! it's totally innocuous. [20:14]
ben_vulpes spittoon, though [20:14]
asciilifeform sss-schpluurk. [20:14]
ben_vulpes blech. [20:15]
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asciilifeform << lulzies [20:16]
assbot ... ( ) [20:16]
thestringpuller lolol [20:17]
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thestringpuller really would love to watch a Comedy show inspired by the work of ALF [20:19]
thestringpuller we can call it AFL [20:19]
thestringpuller ALF* [20:19]
thestringpuller [20:20]
asciilifeform ^ lol, cross of 'et' and boar ? [20:20]
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ben_vulpes [] how do you plan to use it w/o a wallet ? << gotta move all the transaction generation logic out of the turd. implies a database replacement using something that can actually be queried, not a braindamaged k/v store. [20:21]
ben_vulpes [] like, the node, which is an always on demon, and then various things connecting to it : such as other nodes, on the eth card, or the user, always on the specifically delegated interface, etc ? << working towards this is the root my plaintive cries about what it means to "bitcoinate" [20:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105400 @ 0.00041061 = 43.2783 BTC [-] [20:26]
thestringpuller ben_vulpes: heard something about your city today lol [20:28]
ben_vulpes something indescribeably stupid, no doubt [20:28]
thestringpuller i guess. they said the city is a hipster factory. [20:28]
ben_vulpes who? [20:29]
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ben_vulpes, << /me raises his hand [20:31]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 06:06:39; mircea_popescu: ironically, irc was a big thing when i was a teen. then pretty much forgot about it. only rediscovered it in a frustrated attempt to make sense of the ever mounting idiocy that bitcoin appeared to be. [20:31]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2015 06:06:54; danielpbarron: hah same here [20:31]
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thestringpuller ben_vulpes: buddy of mine who works at the intel plant up there. [20:34]
thestringpuller he was like "I've become a hipster even though I was an anti-hipster" [20:34]
thestringpuller so they brainwashing people out there ben_vulpes ? [20:35]
ben_vulpes [] << charming [20:36]
assbot Моя мастерская with subtitles | Amara ... ( ) [20:36]
ben_vulpes "common household tools" [20:37]
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ben_vulpes hah and of course a windows machine [20:38]
ben_vulpes these old fab hands and their msboxen [20:38]
ben_vulpes thestringpuller: D1X can do strange things to a man. [20:38]
ben_vulpes but uh normally the fab does not produce hipsters, no. [20:38]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the non-obvious tidbit in the film is that the man can afford those digs without being especially loaded [20:40]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: one could get a similar space in some parts of usa, but it would be under 24/7 orc siege and security costs for parity with the pictured workshop would dwarf the rent [20:41]
ben_vulpes i did notice the door was unlocked. [20:41]
asciilifeform not much of a door, either [20:41]
ben_vulpes right [20:41]
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thestringpuller asciilifeform: define orc [20:42]
ben_vulpes fwiw there aren't many orcs in the rural bits of ussa, and one can shoot trespassers on sign in those provinces too [20:42]
asciilifeform ^ we've seen what happens to folks who actually try [20:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92300 @ 0.00042263 = 39.0087 BTC [+] [20:43]
ben_vulpes most recently, we've seen what happens to people who shoot each other in the suburbs [20:44]
asciilifeform perhaps if the tresspasser is white/anglo, it is overlooked. [20:44]
thestringpuller it's okay to shoot a nigga in the hood. [20:44]
thestringpuller when you shoot him in the suburbs, everyone loses their shit. [20:44]
ben_vulpes out in the woods, the sop (as i understand it, not having pulled this particular hat trick myself) is to fire a warning shot, shoot the invader, and then call the sherrif. [20:44]
asciilifeform but notice that the pictured workshop is not built into the man's home, presumably he is not present there 24/7. [20:44]
ben_vulpes what is different there? why no orcs or plunderers? [20:45]
asciilifeform when i said 'security cost', it does not necessarily refer to tanks or rockets [20:45]
thestringpuller !s orc [20:45]
assbot 50 results for 'orc' : [20:45]
ben_vulpes actually asciilifeform i contest this stance [20:45]
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ben_vulpes i've worked in minimally secured shops [20:45]
ben_vulpes with tens of thousands of dollars in hardware [20:45]
ben_vulpes and more in fancy woods [20:46]
ben_vulpes subspace in busy warehouse, not much by way of rent or opportunities for theft. [20:46]
asciilifeform 'nobody knows this is not a warehouse full of old shoes' is not 'minimally secured' [20:46]
asciilifeform it's the best security there is. [20:46]
asciilifeform but the workshop fella posted that to 'youtube' and was not afraid of being robbed. (however, long after, he since moved, to a larger space, iirc.) [20:47]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes: your warehouse had heat? 3-phase current? private apartment out of sight of other tenants ? [20:48]
asciilifeform and a total lack of draconian conditions in lease ? [20:48]
asciilifeform e.g., were you free to live in and legally receive mail there, if you wished ? [20:48]
ben_vulpes people lived there yeah [20:49]
ben_vulpes and yes, there was 3-phase. [20:49]
ben_vulpes decent shaper requires 3-phase. [20:49]
ben_vulpes granted, we had to run it from the mains entry point *ourselves* [20:49]
ben_vulpes and the guy who ran the place had his own out-of-sight apartment that was rarely shown to other tenants [20:50]
ben_vulpes lease was month-to-month [20:50]
ben_vulpes i grow to suspect that you see all of the ussa as a homogenous enforcement environment. [20:50]
asciilifeform sounds very spiffy, but i notice ben_vulpes is referring to this business arrangement in the past tense [20:51]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: why'd you leave ? [20:51]
ben_vulpes which makes sense, coming from an inhabitant of the Forbidden City [20:51]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: career change. [20:51]
asciilifeform so, not so cheap that one could budget it as lunch money ? [20:51]
ben_vulpes the risk of losing my hands was not worth the pay. [20:52]
asciilifeform i mean, to keep the space for pleasure [20:52]
ben_vulpes for a man with income, surely. [20:52]
ben_vulpes a pauper like myself, though? [20:52]
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* asciilifeform not so foolish as to think about 'homogeneous enforcement environments', knows that there are, e.g., vast deserts in usa where folks set off trucks full of dynamite for amusement, etc. [20:53]
ben_vulpes "drive by shooting gallery"!! [20:53]
ben_vulpes [20:54]
assbot Watch Weird America :- The Drive-by Shooting Gallery -: | Weird America Episodes | Learning Videos | Blip ... ( ) [20:54]
asciilifeform it all exists, yes. and the folks who live there are almost qualified to graduate out of usa. [20:54]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: what is it about that place that provides for space and security at such a low cost? [20:56]
ben_vulpes for that matter, where is it? [20:56]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: leningrad [20:57]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: aka st petersburg, petrograd [20:57]
ben_vulpes mwell [20:57]
asciilifeform i don't know the author personally, no. he's just a blogger. [20:57]
asciilifeform and what provides for security is that he lives in (laugh, but) the civilized world [20:58]
ben_vulpes i'll not laugh, no. [20:58]
ben_vulpes not at a term i don't understand. [20:58]
ben_vulpes what do you mean by "civilized world"? [20:58]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: at the risk of circularity, the place where you can easily make the kind of arrangement pictured in the film. [20:59]
asciilifeform notice that the author had no trouble procuring modern tools [20:59]
asciilifeform or materials with which to work [20:59]
ben_vulpes is the typical american to expect those to be hard to come by in the "civilized world"? [21:00]
asciilifeform [21:01]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2015 06:26:04; mircea_popescu: i live in the sticks. [21:01]
asciilifeform i distinctly recall that machine tools are uncommonly difficult to obtain in ar, for example [21:02]
asciilifeform [21:03]
assbot Logged on 18-06-2014 22:22:37; benkay: the word i got was that large, tech-heavy equipment gets stalled at the border. [21:03]
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asciilifeform (see also other threads re: same) [21:03]
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ben_vulpes mircea_popescu originally contested the difficulty of importing heavy things, saying it was a problem of the poorly networked [21:04]
ben_vulpes but now says he can't even get a pogo shipped in. [21:05]
asciilifeform -everything- is a problem of the poorly networked. [21:05]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it most certainly cannot be true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in. but quite likely true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in for 18 usd per. [21:05]
asciilifeform for sufficient price, can get an elephant shipped into pyongyang or south pole. [21:06]
ben_vulpes sure. [21:07]
ben_vulpes [] this is actually why i suggested that for an mpif pc, it'd make the most sense to run the bot on s.mpoe itself << i admire the guys persistence [21:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93900 @ 0.00042309 = 39.7282 BTC [+] [21:15]
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davout <<< my fucking sides [21:23]
assbot BitcoinStats ... ( ) [21:23]
adlai ben_vulpes: context is, the thing is usable, i'm trying to get people to use it. maybe not the most tactful, but i don't have my own pr lady (yet) [21:24]
assbot Logged on 07-11-2014 01:18:27; mircea_popescu: there is exactly one avenue to do that : make it so good some actual trader starts using it, after which go work for him. [21:24]
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ben_vulpes oh i get it! [21:25]
ben_vulpes i'm just saying that i admire your persistence. [21:25]
adlai thank you :) [21:26]
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* assbot gives voice to jurov [21:27]
jurov yea, adlai keeps suggesting and saying "but it requires" ... perhaps one day someone'll make his code working and he'll be left with nice fuzzy feeling [21:30]
* adlai wonders whether that quite does him justice, but arguing on irc gives less of a fuzzy feeling than becoming that someone [21:34]
jurov you seem to avoid at any costs mentioning concrete terms to potential investors in this chan [21:39]
adlai i'm not set on a specific configuration for how such terms would look; i'm interested to see what works for them. mircea_popescu outlined the terms he offers people who manage profit centers, and it seems that he's not willing at this stage to risk an amount which is worth my time to manage, and this is understandable [21:43]
adlai so at this point i'm working further on my code, and waiting to see if anybody interested in using it has terms in mind already [21:43]
adlai i'm not going to declare in advance that i want X% of profits, or a Y% upfront fee, if that's what you're looking for [21:44]
danielpbarron dude, take the small amount and build some rep; what's with all the whining? [21:44]
* adlai is doing this, shuts up [21:44]
kakobrekla [21:52]
assbot Raspberry Pi • View topic - Why is the PI2 camera-shy ? ... ( ) [21:52]
kakobrekla quite the lulz there [21:53]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: all transistors are phototransistors. [21:53]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: and, as shown here, 'opaque' plastic - isn't necessarily ideally opaque [21:54]
asciilifeform just as, say, your fingers are not (get a flashlight and see if didn't remember this) [21:54]
kakobrekla yet this normally doesnt hapen [21:59]
kakobrekla happen [21:59]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: unusually chinese ic package, would be a reasonable hypothesis. [22:00]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: this kind of thing was not unheard of in the old days of windowed uv-erasable eprom. [22:00]
asciilifeform (would lose the occasional bits) [22:00]
kakobrekla stickerfail? [22:01]
asciilifeform didn't always have a cover [22:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41050 @ 0.00042263 = 17.349 BTC [-] [23:04]
* mircea_popescu waves at all the people. [23:05]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform he could have been lord curzon II, or else he could have been the Russian Lafayette. [23:10]
mircea_popescu this "british socialist, tour of derpage in spain" thing is wormtalk. [23:10]
mircea_popescu "oh i hate shootin gelephants and the empire is too heavy ; oh how the latrines stink" is really not adequate for one over the age of about 15. [23:12]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron: better than refreshing a faucet << pretty much teh point. [23:12]
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mircea_popescu trinque: how many countries have to be fighting a war for the phrase "world war" to apply? <<< ww1 was instituted by gallup poll. [23:17]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: 'we've never heard of you' <<< i'll insure against that one, for cheap. [23:18]
trinque mircea_popescu: maybe they'll crowdsource a sweet name for wwiii from reddit this time [23:19]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: there are all of these things that make sense in the context of it, but... <<< i come fresh from a three hour session of discussing eulora game model with c people. [23:19]
mircea_popescu i can sort-of read c++ and i comprehend computers, but jesus christ was it fighting against us. [23:20]
mircea_popescu on the positive side, mining's also nailed down. [23:20]
mircea_popescu an' it rocks. [23:20]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: my plaintive cries << it's not a bad plan i don't think. [23:21]
ben_vulpes cart before the horse until the db's replaced [23:25]
mircea_popescu myeah. [23:27]
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mircea_popescu the great debate of "with what" is eagerly awaited. im even working to import two (2) popcorns for the occasion. [23:27]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: i distinctly recall that machine tools are uncommonly difficult to obtain in ar, for example << do i need to show you pictures of the casa del transformador again ? [23:29]
mircea_popescu or tell you about how on reports about "power outages" i had all sortos of arrangements in place, including the option to have a container generator installed (worth about 3mw) [23:29]
mircea_popescu that i never ended up using because... there hasn't yet been a power outage. [23:30]
ben_vulpes first gotta resolve the "embedded" vs "external" question [23:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it most certainly cannot be true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in. but quite likely true that he cannot get a pogo shipped in for 18 usd per. <<< it doesn't even reach that. the value of ME running pogos is minimal. there are N+k**p things i can do to halp bitcoin. [23:31]
mircea_popescu there are, however, bunches (i'm told) of people who would like to do something, but for reasons of barrier of entry, can not. [23:31]
mircea_popescu for they, the pogo. [23:31]
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mircea_popescu it's pretty much the lowest "i did something positive for the world i live in" barrier they'll ever meet. [23:32]
mircea_popescu that said, i'll definitely run a few myself. [23:33]
ben_vulpes wasn't reaaaally the topic iirc [23:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64842 @ 0.00042309 = 27.434 BTC [+] [23:34]
* kushed is now known as kushed|AFK [23:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104753 @ 0.00042349 = 44.3618 BTC [+] [23:35]
mircea_popescu well i dunno what teh topic really was cause i'm not so sure i said what it seems to be the case i said or something [23:35]
ben_vulpes but you mention a 3mw gennie, so that's relevant [23:36]
mircea_popescu as you might imagine, it's more expensive to run than just use the grid. [23:36]
mircea_popescu however, the point is more along the lines of "solutions exist" [23:36]
ben_vulpes more relevantly "can be acquired" [23:37]
mircea_popescu actually you can get it on lease, and on quite excellent terms. with any luck, BY DAY. [23:37]
ben_vulpes how does renting a backup generator by the day make sense? [23:39]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: kakobrekla: and, as shown here, 'opaque' plastic - isn't necessarily ideally opaque << actually, only metals are opaque properly. [23:39]
ben_vulpes once you need it so does the rest of town. [23:39]
mircea_popescu which kinda is what the definition of metal is. [23:39]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes perhaps you don't understand what "the town" means. [23:39]
mircea_popescu buenos aires is larger than north carolina. [23:40]
mircea_popescu (not really, but w/e, 2k sqkm or something). [23:41]
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mircea_popescu if the whole thing's out of power your problems are probably closer to finding enough ak47s rather than generators. [23:46]
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ben_vulpes yeah. i get it [23:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59700 @ 0.00042247 = 25.2215 BTC [-] {2} [23:48]
mircea_popescu no no allow me to belabour teh point moar :D [23:49]
mircea_popescu because these logs were INSUFFICIENT i swear. i leave for a full few hours and what do i get ? NOTHING [23:50]
mircea_popescu " In 1936 it was clear to everyone that if Britain would only help the Spanish Government, even to the extent of a few million pounds' worth of arms, Franco would collapse and German strategy would be severely dislocated. By that time one did not need to be a clairvoyant to foresee that war between Britain and Germany was coming; one could even foretell within a year or two when it would come. Yet in the most mean, cow [23:57]
mircea_popescu ardly, hypocritical way the British ruling class did all they could to hand Spain over to Franco and the Nazis. Why? Because they were pro-Fascist, was the obvious answer." [23:57]
mircea_popescu this is actually a fair analysis, i suspect. cca 1936, stalin was pro hitler, lord halifax was, undeclaratively, but essentially, pro hitler. everyone was pro hitler. [23:57]
mircea_popescu to go from there to fuhrerbunker in less than a decade... you need a real idiot for such a thing. [23:58]
Category: Logs
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