Forum logs for 06 Mar 2015

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
PeterL mircea_popescu: Is F.DERP statement coming soon? [00:00]
* asciilifeform was just ip-banned by 'github' for 'too many requests from your addr' [00:01]
asciilifeform apparently no one actually reads it in earnest [00:01]
* asciilifeform examines source of 'gnatelim' and it appears that it is only able to snip dead code that is -actually represented in your source- [00:02]
asciilifeform why would you have dead routines in your own source? [00:02]
asciilifeform severe head trauma in childhood ? [00:02]
mircea_popescu PeterL being prepared. there's definitely going to be one. [00:04]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform 40% or 90% is purely a wordchoice matter, much like the zhim thing. 5%ish is where it matters. [00:05]
asciilifeform aha, it's like the decision of how many thousand volts to use in electric chair [00:06]
* OneNomos has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [00:06]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller> and enron ruined pensions for everyone << if only. "My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to i [00:06]
mircea_popescu n his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on." [00:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21800 @ 0.00040327 = 8.7913 BTC [-] {2} [00:07]
adlai found via reading orlov's Lessons >> [00:09]
assbot OVERSHOOT LOOP: Evolution Under The Maximum Power Principle ... ( ) [00:09]
* decimation has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [00:09]
mircea_popescu * asciilifeform was just ip-banned by 'github' for 'too many requests from your addr' << lmao. [00:09]
mircea_popescu this takes the fucking cake, [00:09]
mircea_popescu open source is safe because it's read by millions of eyes, which we ban. [00:10]
asciilifeform was flipping through search results [00:12]
asciilifeform of that crud [00:12]
mircea_popescu << it would not. godel problem / surprise executio nproblem manifested for your convenience as slippage i guess. [00:12]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2015 22:12:30; asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ? [00:12]
* asciilifeform suspected [00:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform for all the major differences between them and us, it occurs to me there's a very painfully obvious stylistical point : doesn't have traffic tracking, doesn't let you search. [00:13]
mircea_popescu verrrrry deep this "minor point' [00:13]
asciilifeform yet one or more optimal play variants must exist (in the sense the 'optimal' minimax game of chess exists. not in the sense that you could actually play that game or ever see so much as one move of it in life) [00:13]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nope. the notion of "optimal" is undefined. [00:13]
adlai doesn't log? [00:13]
adlai (log itself, not the channel) [00:13]
mircea_popescu adlai not iirc. [00:14]
mircea_popescu !s don't keep logs [00:14]
assbot 1 results for 'don't keep logs' : [00:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: defined as 'what bits would you send back in time to time T1, if you could, from time T2, to maximize profit from investing C coin' [00:14]
mircea_popescu hm. it was discussed but i think long long ago, pre searchable stuff. [00:14]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform this isn't a definition tho. [00:14]
mircea_popescu "what would happen if it didn't happen ?" [00:15]
asciilifeform it's an existence proof [00:15]
asciilifeform say we limit the length of the string [00:15]
mircea_popescu nope. you use in one phase symbols that don't exist of the other. [00:15]
asciilifeform therefore one or more possible strings would result in max C' [00:15]
mircea_popescu '(what bits would you send back in time to time T1), if you could, from time T2, (to maximize profit from investing C coin)' [00:15]
mircea_popescu part 2 presumes part 1 doesn't exist. [00:15]
* asciilifeform can see where mircea_popescu is going - 'no clockwork universe' - but a trading engine in sufficiently small time span does behave rather like a clockwork universe [00:16]
* NewLiberty has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [00:16]
mircea_popescu yes, it does, provided you don't take it out of there. [00:16]
mircea_popescu but you're proposing to do exactly that. [00:16]
mircea_popescu the moment you start doin this sort of thing it no longer behaves thusly. [00:17]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu doesn't 'believe in' infinitesimals either, does he [00:17]
mircea_popescu to put this to intuition : suppose in the alt-universe where your microscopic trade happened, another trader happened to see it and panic. [00:17]
asciilifeform 'butterfly' ? [00:17]
asciilifeform sure [00:17]
mircea_popescu [00:18]
assbot ... ( ) [00:18]
* asciilifeform read time machine stories as a kid just like everybody else [00:18]
* decimation (~decibot@unaffiliated/decimation) has joined #bitcoin-assets [00:18]
mircea_popescu there are a number of hard rules of the world we inhabit, that children take some time to internalize. one is, of course, "move backwards through time" thing. what adolescent did not ponder this, wish it, etc. [00:19]
mircea_popescu another is the complexity problem. the simple fact that once the father has said "i know shit", if he opens his mouth enough to say as little as some basic math, he's now wrong. [00:19]
mircea_popescu they are of course related. [00:20]
adlai When we differ, Charlie usually ends the conversation by saying: “Warren, [00:20]
adlai think it over and you’ll agree with me because you’re smart and I’m right.” [00:20]
mircea_popescu in any event, all human folly is based on the failure to come to terms and trying to go through the wall. [00:20]
* mapop has quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) [00:20]
mircea_popescu like, the complexity problem guarantees no government will ever succeed. yet who's deterred from "empirebuilding". [00:20]
mircea_popescu the time direction thing never stopped anyone from thinking "hey, i could have done better!" or be bitter about how things turned out etc. [00:21]
* assbot gives voice to decimation [00:21]
asciilifeform the mouse is only really alive because he tries to go through the glass bottle [00:21]
asciilifeform at all times [00:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but this is from cause. [00:21]
mircea_popescu now look at it from the fallacious "purpose" perspective. [00:21]
mircea_popescu is he alive because he... means to ? [00:21]
mircea_popescu because he thinks he should have ? [00:22]
asciilifeform does steam 'mean to' burst a boiler with plugged valve ? [00:22]
mircea_popescu take this with a grain of salt, but here it is : [00:22]
asciilifeform the 'purpose' thing is just a demented lens for viewing anything [00:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00040988 = 3.6889 BTC [+] [00:22]
mircea_popescu at its core, the "optimal retrospective investment" problem is a nude and rude proposition to replace the action imperative ("mouse must escape or die in the act of trying") with an imaginary junk. ("it could have been"). this is not substantially different from what the usg does when it invents a new name for the homeless and pretends to have "resolved the problem". [00:23]
mircea_popescu it "works" like all fatlogic works : because it's easier [00:23]
mircea_popescu but otherwise, utter waste of time. [00:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if waste of time, then what is the correct answer that machine like 'scalpl' is actually approximating when it grinds ? [00:25]
mircea_popescu it doesn't exist. [00:25]
mircea_popescu what is the correct code gcc approximates as it churns on cygwin ? [00:25]
* paxtoncamaro91 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [00:25]
asciilifeform it provably exists [00:25]
mircea_popescu for as long as the proof is wrong, yes, it provably exists. [00:25]
asciilifeform (not by demonstration. but by deduction) [00:25]
mircea_popescu right. [00:25]
mircea_popescu the mere fact that you have such proof is sufficient proof that it is wrong. [00:26]
mircea_popescu its mere presence suffices. [00:26]
asciilifeform somewhat perverted understanding here [00:27]
mircea_popescu far be it from me to diss fiction - the creation of "proofs" we know from the outset to be false and then their taking apart to examine where they stole our eyes is exactly shakespeare's trade. [00:27]
asciilifeform is only non-provable in the general case [00:27]
mircea_popescu but this is the general case. [00:27]
asciilifeform for arbitrarily many specific cases - provable. [00:27]
asciilifeform for trivial example, the shortest program which does nothing at all is ''. [00:27]
mircea_popescu only if they don't include it. once you've included it... you've made it general. [00:27]
asciilifeform works on most machines, even! [00:27]
mircea_popescu lol [00:28]
mircea_popescu no but see ? [00:28]
asciilifeform for the original line of reasoning, see chaitin. [00:28]
mircea_popescu looky here : for as long as you don't aim to use the "shortest program" thing for the purpose of attacking my statement, it is ok. [00:28]
mircea_popescu once you do, you're fucked. "works on most machines" now. [00:28]
* asciilifeform did carefully specify that the 'ideal play' is not actually findable [00:29]
asciilifeform in the general case. [00:29]
mircea_popescu well... chaitin and torkel should be refered together [00:29]
mircea_popescu very naggum-ish character actually. except iirc swedish [00:30]
mircea_popescu << hehe [00:31]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:35; asciilifeform: you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot << impossible by definition [00:31]
mircea_popescu << anyway, this is what triggered the discussion, and to move on to more practical considerations : [00:32]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:19; asciilifeform: understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve [00:32]
mircea_popescu making money is not a function of one's hard work and dilligence in the schoolhouse sense. [00:32]
mircea_popescu making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not. [00:33]
asciilifeform what - in the actual world people inhabit - *is* a function of it? [00:33]
mircea_popescu if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet. [00:33]
mircea_popescu otherwise, there are some classes of optimization problems ~once you're already rich~. [00:33]
asciilifeform l0l [00:33]
mircea_popescu but this is conservation. one does not acquire wealth except one single way [00:34]
asciilifeform this is exactly how sov. textbooks described stock markets! [00:34]
mircea_popescu and that is, joining the wot early, and helping set the world on fire. it. strictly it. [00:34]
mircea_popescu the hoodlums trying to be drug lords in detroit have a lot more sense in this matter than the "business majors" coming out of harvard. [00:34]
mircea_popescu (some of the latter get it, but rare is that bird). [00:34]
asciilifeform 'have low serial number on your party card' ? [00:34]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, us had a much better view of the soviets than the soviets, and vice-versa. [00:35]
* asciilifeform not convinced that the hoodlums have more 'sense' than the mouse in the bottle [00:35]
mircea_popescu the mouse in the bottle is a superlative of sense. [00:35]
mircea_popescu there's no more sense to be had. [00:35]
asciilifeform sure there is. an ant can bite in milliseconds. [00:35]
asciilifeform smaller nervous system, elementary [00:36]
mircea_popescu so ? [00:36]
asciilifeform the mouse thing is really about the virtues of not-thinking, no ? [00:36]
mircea_popescu no ? [00:36]
mircea_popescu it's about not spending your time writing fiction under the pretense of "thinking". the mouse excels at this. [00:37]
asciilifeform in that he doesn't have anything like an accurate internal model of his situation, in the bottle [00:37]
mircea_popescu but he does. [00:37]
asciilifeform really? [00:37]
mircea_popescu that's the thing. he does, more so than bill gates. [00:37]
asciilifeform mouse understands glass better than the bird (recall the bird film i posted? also persistent beast, also against glass!) [00:37]
mircea_popescu he doesn't understand the implementation details. but the situation, he understands just fine. [00:38]
asciilifeform i'm quite unconvinced that the bird did [00:38]
mircea_popescu prolly not. [00:38]
asciilifeform (he was trying to get -in-, for no apparent reason, rather than escape a jar) [00:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35506 @ 0.00041126 = 14.6022 BTC [+] {2} [00:39]
mircea_popescu birds are really closer to insects than mammals. [00:39]
mircea_popescu from a software perspective. [00:39]
mircea_popescu it's basically a sort of windows nt, to replace windows 3.1. look, flashier plumage and mating dances! [00:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10994 @ 0.00041265 = 4.5367 BTC [+] {2} [00:40]
asciilifeform incidentally, i'm rather curious re: how a social animal (rat, wolf) would do in the bottle [00:40]
mircea_popescu i once found a fox leg in a bear trap. [00:40]
asciilifeform fight the glass to the death - or 'submit' to it as to a 'commanding officer' [00:40]
asciilifeform fox is famous for just this [00:40]
asciilifeform but not really pack animal, afaik [00:41]
mircea_popescu i guess not really no. [00:41]
BingoBoingo !b 4 [00:42]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:42]
asciilifeform i once caught a groundhog (marmota monax) in a zoological (cage) trap [00:42]
* CryptoGoon has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [00:42]
asciilifeform it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up [00:42]
decimation < there's a whole youtube genre of X vs. Y animal [00:43]
assbot Brown Recluse vs Wolf Spider Who will win - YouTube ... ( ) [00:43]
asciilifeform obligatory: [00:43]
asciilifeform [00:43]
assbot Великая битва слона с китом.avi - YouTube ... ( ) [00:44]
mircea_popescu "superman beetle vs flash spider" [00:44]
decimation nuland vs ukraine [00:45]
mircea_popescu << eh dun worry, tis not about you. [00:45]
assbot Hearing: Ukraine Under Siege | House Committee on Foreign Affairs - Ed Royce, Chairman ... ( ) [00:45]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2015 22:36:47; jurov: i'm trying to make do under some constraints, which i explained several time here [00:45]
mircea_popescu you're doin; fine. [00:45]
* PeterL has quit (Quit: PeterL) [00:47]
mircea_popescu well anyway, see y'all tomorro [00:47]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [18:54]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [18:54]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [18:54]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [18:54]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [18:55]
* Cory has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [18:55]
asciilifeform trinque: i'll be the last to disagree that it's still possible, today, to squeeze out a 'living' doing something in usa. question is how long it will remain true, for one's particular profession, for particular locale (do you like drilling for oil?), etc [18:56]
* Cory (~Cory@unaffiliated/cory) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:58]
asciilifeform trinque: also understand that even if you get 'usa-rich' it does not automatically translate to freeworld-rich. [18:58]
asciilifeform (see the numerous old 'exit tax' threads here and elsewhere) [18:59]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform [19:01]
assbot A sjsqd walks into a pub... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:01]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i like PeterL's suggestion [19:04]
mircea_popescu it's not bad. [19:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: though i still insist that 'red' cryptomaterial should not touch the networked box [19:04]
asciilifeform that is, the extant wallet&node combo kitchen-toilet is pure lunacy [19:04]
* OneNomos ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:06]
mircea_popescu surely. [19:06]
mircea_popescu ideally you want exactly what ben_vulpes was proposing : a node server with a wallet client [19:06]
asciilifeform every node is already a 'wallet client' [19:06]
mircea_popescu but even admitting this were done correctly, the problem still remains of what txn the client should order broadcast. [19:06]
asciilifeform (in that it can swallow a tx if fed) [19:07]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform kinda how sane people use this : wallet on a system behind a node system in a nat. [19:07]
mircea_popescu !up sjsqd [19:07]
-assbot- You voiced sjsqd for 30 minutes. [19:07]
* assbot gives voice to sjsqd [19:07]
sjsqd hi [19:07]
mircea_popescu hello. [19:08]
sjsqd was trying to sign up for your site but it forwards to a blank page [19:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6085 @ 0.00039974 = 2.4324 BTC [+] [19:08]
mircea_popescu what exactly did you do ? [19:08]
sjsqd otherwise still also trying to read through 6 months of IRC logs haha [19:08]
sjsqd put in my email and 10,000 credits and pressed submit [19:08]
mircea_popescu hm. that's odd, it shouldn't do that. [19:09]
sjsqd the page that shows as being blank = [19:09]
assbot Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:09]
mircea_popescu do you have redirects disabled maybe ? [19:13]
mircea_popescu also, make sure you typed the email address correctly. [19:14]
mircea_popescu $ curl -IL | more [19:14]
mircea_popescu HTTP/1.1 302 Moved Temporarily [19:14]
mircea_popescu Location: [19:14]
assbot Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:15]
assbot Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [19:15]
* AdrianoOliveira has quit (Quit: Leaving) [19:15]
sjsqd email address is correct [19:15]
sjsqd and I don't think I have redirects disabled [19:15]
* MykelSilver (~michael@unaffiliated/mykelsilver) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:17]
sjsqd I tried a few different options on my computer but got the same result [19:20]
mircea_popescu ahahaha you found a bug [19:20]
mircea_popescu if you fill in with something other than 10k or with nothing at all it works. [19:20]
mircea_popescu if however you explicitly specify the default... [19:20]
mircea_popescu lmao [19:20]
sjsqd haha [19:21]
* BingoBoingo has quit (Quit: Leaving) [19:22]
sjsqd I'm pretty sure I tried another figure but yes you're correct it works now [19:22]
mircea_popescu sjsqd also, get in the wot. [19:31]
sjsqd yes I will I briefly read about it earlier [19:31]
sjsqd I've just had quite a few things on at the moment, otherwise I would be a bit more active [19:31]
sjsqd but I do find this channel and the websites/sources surrounding it interesting [19:32]
* airgapped (~airgapped@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/airgapped) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:34]
mircea_popescu !up airgapped [19:35]
-assbot- You voiced airgapped for 30 minutes. [19:35]
* assbot gives voice to airgapped [19:35]
airgapped mircea_popescu: thanks [19:36]
airgapped [19:36]
assbot Building Bitcoin node on Raspberry Pi 2 | Airgapped ... ( ) [19:36]
mircea_popescu sure. [19:36]
airgapped ^ including for reference, may be usefull for someone [19:37]
* assbot removes voice from sjsqd [19:37]
mircea_popescu i don't recall why we didn't like the pi for this purpoise, but it's in teh logs. [19:38]
trinque paging asciilifeform [19:38]
airgapped this one is new, more RAM, so far rock solid [19:39]
mircea_popescu how much ram does it have now ? 4g ? [19:40]
airgapped 1g [19:40]
danielpbarron looks like it's just more expensive [19:40]
trinque mystery binary blob drivers are required to run the thing [19:40]
danielpbarron the pogo is < 20 USD [19:40]
airgapped working on pogo as we speak [19:40]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron more a case of "there's all these people who got pis because excitement, now have nothing to use them for", i thought, [19:40]
mircea_popescu so in that sense, it costs zero. [19:40]
airgapped yes, the blob is there [19:41]
mircea_popescu yeah, that's what it was. [19:41]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 46 @ 0.03400002 = 1.564 BTC [-] {2} [19:41]
danielpbarron airgapped, you might be intrested in this -> [19:42]
assbot ... ( ) [19:42]
airgapped so for me this is also temp solution [19:42]
mircea_popescu the pi is currently being worked on as a first example of a fully fits in head machine. [19:42]
mircea_popescu sorry i mean the pogo not the pi [19:42]
airgapped thanks will look at it [19:42]
danielpbarron still a work in progress, see also the root directory of that file [19:42]
airgapped also on my desk VoCore [19:42]
airgapped next in line [19:43]
mircea_popescu airgapped you should prolly get in the wot while at it. [19:43]
airgapped danielpbarron: nice, mised it in the logs [19:43]
cazalla ;;later tell bingoboingo enjoy :) i didn't end up drinking last night so no issues there [19:44]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:44]
airgapped I'm in the wot [19:44]
* pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:44]
danielpbarron airgapped, the WoT forked [19:44]
mircea_popescu !gettrust airgapped [19:44]
assbot airgapped is not registered in WoT. [19:45]
mircea_popescu I'm in the wot < since when ? [19:45]
airgapped OK, so I need some help [19:45]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [19:45]
airgapped registered few days ago [19:45]
mircea_popescu airgapped < [19:45]
assbot irc_bots:assbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [19:45]
danielpbarron he did it the gribble way [19:45]
mircea_popescu if you were in gribble pre 2015, you were imported. otherwise, gotta reg your key with assbot. [19:46]
airgapped have registered it with gribble [19:46]
airgapped should do the same with assbot? [19:47]
mircea_popescu so then it's halfa minute. yeah, see the link for commands. [19:47]
airgapped thanks, will do [19:47]
pete_dushenski purim scoop: [19:48]
assbot Signing a shoe is the same as signing the papers. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( ) [19:48]
airgapped !register 178BF6EEA4C3A737F70878AC5E40172FEBBA0713 [19:51]
assbot Searching for key with fingerprint: 178BF6EEA4C3A737F70878AC5E40172FEBBA0713. This may take a few moments. [19:51]
assbot Key EBBA0713 / "airgapped " successfully imported. [19:51]
assbot Registration successful. [19:51]
pete_dushenski eh wd. [19:51]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 27 @ 0.03753703 = 1.0135 BTC [+] {2} [19:53]
pete_dushenski airgapped i'm guessing is you ? [19:53]
assbot Airgapped (@airgapped) | Twitter ... ( ) [19:53]
airgapped pete_dushenski: yes [19:54]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.airgapped.1:b3f7991004a4bbbbd349279c39bb1e5431f940bcc8e103b36d37d3d83b3ae7f6 [19:54]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for airgapped with note: Working on the pogo thing. [19:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7008 @ 0.00039911 = 2.797 BTC [-] [19:55]
airgapped danielpbarron: thanks [19:55]
pete_dushenski airgapped cool. [19:55]
pete_dushenski airgapped so what's your background ? [19:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00040988 = 7.0089 BTC [+] {4} [19:56]
airgapped embedded, crypto [19:56]
pete_dushenski crypto i get, but what's 'embedded' ? [19:57]
airgapped embedded microcontrolers [19:58]
airgapped ARM based mostly [19:58]
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mircea_popescu !rate airgapped 1 New blood [20:00]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [20:00]
pete_dushenski ah neat. [20:00]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.airgapped.1:9fdc995fb92b89f46ae90459ad60e2b6c87f4627292744d93d9e0c7c8f3f0be7 [20:00]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for airgapped with note: New blood [20:00]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell peterl since you asked : [20:01]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:01]
assbot F.DERP Janyary - February 2015 Combined Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:01]
mike_c heh, i kind of like that better. "janyary" [20:01]
pete_dushenski airgapped so are you working in the field currently ? or is this more of a hobby of yours ? [20:01]
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airgapped pete_dushenski: working, I specialize in "secure" microcontrolers [20:03]
pete_dushenski is there such a thing as 'secure' arm ? [20:04]
pete_dushenski i'm under the impression, though hardly an expert, that there isn't. [20:05]
* assbot removes voice from airgapped [20:05]
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pete_dushenski << first i've heard of 'coin' [20:10]
assbot 14 Bidders 34 Bids In Latest USMS Bitcoin Auction | ... ( ) [20:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00041098 = 3.5755 BTC [+] [20:12]
mike_c you just haven't heard the name. it's the winklevii etf. [20:13]
pete_dushenski o that's right. [20:15]
pete_dushenski lol kinda even funnier now [20:15]
mike_c yeah :) [20:15]
pete_dushenski i thought it was some white-list or something [20:15]
pete_dushenski or other 2.0 thing [20:15]
pete_dushenski << burn baby burn. [20:19]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 03:30:18; mircea_popescu: and that is, joining the wot early, and helping set the world on fire. it. strictly it. [20:19]
scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: [20:20]
thestringpuller its a canadian eh? [20:20]
pete_dushenski lol hey man. [20:21]
pete_dushenski << this is no surprise, people watch tv, eat at mcd's, etc. [20:21]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 16:31:33; nubbins`: chetty it amazes me that people still carry non-wiped devices over int'l borders [20:21]
pete_dushenski 'people' [20:21]
kakobrekla if you werent on this chan you could actually carry it as well hehe [20:24]
pete_dushenski are you calling him a fat desk-jockey ? [20:25]
kakobrekla well, now you are flagged suspekterorista [20:25]
danielpbarron what is to wipe on a phone that they don't already have? It's not like my keys are on the thing [20:26]
pete_dushenski pictures of yourself ripping bongs ? [20:26]
danielpbarron is that incriminating? could be anything in that bong! [20:27]
danielpbarron also, they already have those pictures, presumably [20:27]
pete_dushenski i'm pretty sure traveling is incriminating [20:27]
pete_dushenski 'you're going to join isis! i know it!' [20:28]
pete_dushenski jurov nah, it's just people getting fussed about the theatre [20:28]
pete_dushenski it's obvious that airport security is about as meaningfully useful as curtains on a submarine [20:29]
danielpbarron what if i'm caught traveling with my private key ascii armored and printed on a sheet of paper? do they even know well enough to ask for a passphrase? [20:29]
kakobrekla at this stage they wont check vms as they are pretending to check if device is real device or real bomb only. [20:29]
kakobrekla its anal rape half way only [20:30]
kakobrekla !s enemy half [20:30]
assbot 5 results for 'enemy half' : [20:30]
kakobrekla its there [20:31]
danielpbarron not that it matters, but telling a passphrase should surely be considered "testifying against yourself" [20:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00039911 = 2.3348 BTC [-] [20:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00039765 = 3.6186 BTC [-] {2} [20:37]
asciilifeform "secure" microcontrolers << ugh [20:40]
pete_dushenski my impression as well, if based on your impression ;) [20:41]
asciilifeform no srsly, not much special expertise needed to see why this is an Intrinsically Bad Idea (TM) [20:41]
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asciilifeform if 'secure' but not user-verifiable, the only people against whom it attempts security is: you. the owner. [20:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8893 @ 0.00038911 = 3.4604 BTC [-] {3} [20:43]
pete_dushenski and are arm inherently not user verifiable ? [20:44]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski: ic is inherently nonverifiable [20:44]
asciilifeform if you own electron microscope and have a couple of years free, and wish to do nothing else - then yes, possibly verifiable. [20:44]
asciilifeform doesn't matter if 'arm' or whatever. [20:44]
asciilifeform it is absolutely essential, to understand what is being spoken of here, to go back to the thread about the specificity of hardware-diddling. [20:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.0003873 = 3.6019 BTC [-] {2} [20:45]
asciilifeform and below [20:46]
assbot Logged on 19-02-2015 04:39:24; asciilifeform: decimation: a diddled die of 100 gates in a tiled matrix will do what, exactly ? [20:46]
asciilifeform for the benefit of n00bs, i will briefly elaborate [20:46]
asciilifeform say the enemy is baking custom silicon -just to slip into my supply lines- [20:46]
asciilifeform say he can design anything, within reason, just in time [20:46]
kakobrekla !up airgapped [20:47]
* assbot gives voice to airgapped [20:47]
asciilifeform his options depend on what i (think i am) buying [20:47]
asciilifeform if i'm buying a general-purpose cpu, and he does not have a precise bitwise knowledge of what i intend to run on it, his options are rather limited [20:47]
airgapped kakobrekla: thanks [20:48]
asciilifeform though if he can get a real-time covert channel into my unit, he can perhaps accomplish something with a simple 'hidden debug' trick [20:48]
asciilifeform if i'm buying 'fpga', and he doesn't have the exact bitstream, he's more or less shit out of luck [20:48]
asciilifeform but let's reverse course and suppose that i'm buying a very specific crypto asic [20:48]
asciilifeform that, say, cranks 8192-bit rsa. [20:48]
asciilifeform and nothing else. [20:48]
asciilifeform or, better yet, generates keys for such. [20:49]
asciilifeform then the question of what changes he ought to slip into the masks at the fab becomes absolutely trivial [20:49]
asciilifeform as in, undergrad-level problem. [20:49]
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asciilifeform because he is no longer firing at a 'moving target' but a bull's eye, so to speak. [20:50]
asciilifeform to make long story short (i am quite uncertain that making it longer will improve the understanding of anyone who does not already grasp the above) - [20:51]
asciilifeform if you're buying dedicated 'crypto' silicon, on your own free will - you are a moron; [20:51]
pete_dushenski so the more specific the task of the chip, as is moreso the case with arm then general-purpose cpu, the easier it is to attack [20:51]
asciilifeform if you're selling it, having understood the above line of reasoning and can offer no meaningful counter - you are a scammer. [20:51]
asciilifeform if you are neither of these things, it is still useful to know who is one of these two things. [20:51]
airgapped asciilifeform: fully agree secure micro does not exists whatever some may claim [20:51]
asciilifeform airgapped: not merely 'not exists' [20:52]
asciilifeform is -intrinsic- snake oil [20:52]
asciilifeform like perpetuum mobile [20:52]
asciilifeform or 'free energy machine' as they tend to be called now [20:52]
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airgapped yes, you ar eright [20:52]
asciilifeform airgapped: and yet you introduced this as your line of work? care to justify ? [20:53]
asciilifeform if somebody walks in and 'i drop screaming nuns out of helicopters for their insurance money' there'd better be a good story at least. [20:53]
airgapped working with microcontrolers [20:54]
airgapped adding crypto blocks/accelerators [20:55]
asciilifeform [20:55]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 22:59:43; airgapped: pete_dushenski: working, I specialize in "secure" microcontrolers [20:55]
asciilifeform airgapped: and it never once occurred to you that it was not an entirely honest line of work ? [20:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9682 @ 0.00040821 = 3.9523 BTC [+] [20:56]
airgapped yes they call it secure but I fully agree these are just micros with crypto accelertion [20:56]
airgapped trully secure processor does not exists [20:57]
asciilifeform airgapped: you still appear to be talking about it as something that could exist in essentially the same form pushed by scammers [20:57]
asciilifeform rather than an object that -categorically- does not exist, like a box inside which 1 == 2. [20:58]
airgapped no I have no illusion that secure processor exists [20:59]
asciilifeform airgapped: let's take your word. why, then, do you spend your days working on a problem to which the answer cannot exist ? [20:59]
airgapped the only option is airgapped machine and nothing beyod [21:00]
asciilifeform ^ doesn't answer my question [21:00]
airgapped interest in crypto algorithms and practical implementaitons [21:01]
airgapped translating crypto/math into implementaion running on small machines [21:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'raspberry pi' << terrible machine for the money, plus long history of disinformation and hype bordering on outright fraud: >> etc [21:04]
assbot Logged on 01-03-2014 22:42:52; asciilifeform: re: raspberry pi: the news item is - a sham [21:04]
assbot Logged on 22-01-2015 21:52:21; asciilifeform: 'raspberry?' terrible, terrible i/o. ethernet on same usb as the storage. no thanks. [21:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and deliberately pseudo-open architecture (runs linux, sure, but with massive closed blobs required even to boot. and vendor regularly pays media mouthpieces to lie about it; also posts astroturfed comments) [21:05]
asciilifeform jurov: ...that supposedly leaks key material by any channel conceivable << i never suggested any specific channel. [21:07]
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asciilifeform jurov: recall mircea_popescu's 'act from cause not towards purpose' heuristic? it applies here [21:08]
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airgapped asciilifeform: ever looked at VoCore? [21:08]
asciilifeform jurov: we don't need to know -precisely- what kind of rape broadcom intends for us [21:08]
asciilifeform jurov: for all we know, ver.1 doesn't even come with a raper [21:09]
asciilifeform jurov: just built to get us in the rape pens quicker. [21:09]
asciilifeform !s vocore [21:09]
assbot 3 results for 'vocore' : [21:09]
asciilifeform ^ was discussed here before [21:09]
asciilifeform airgapped: if you want to carry out crypto on a chip with built-in radio, be my guest [21:10]
asciilifeform i'll pass. [21:10]
airgapped have one but it also contains bin blobs [21:10]
asciilifeform << thread [21:11]
assbot Logged on 18-03-2014 01:19:43; asciilifeform: our friends at ft. meade call this 'NONSTOP' [21:11]
asciilifeform in this case it doesn't even matter whether there are blobs [21:11]
asciilifeform thing's a 'submarine with screen door' [21:11]
asciilifeform doesn't even matter if the radio is switched on [21:12]
asciilifeform and if you went to school and they didn't teach why this is, go and get your money back [21:12]
airgapped we are running out of options here [21:13]
airgapped I have been loking for minimal node for some time but there is no good option it seems [21:15]
asciilifeform !s pogo [21:16]
assbot 194 results for 'pogo' : [21:16]
asciilifeform ^ small 'nas' computer available in usa for < 20 usd; reasonably-well-understood leaked chip docs; reasonable performance [21:16]
asciilifeform not perfect by any means, but a number of folks here are experimenting with it [21:17]
airgapped yes, will try this one [21:17]
asciilifeform for the lack of a clearly superior 'bang for the buck' elsewhere [21:17]
* assbot removes voice from airgapped [21:17]
asciilifeform !up airgapped [21:17]
* assbot gives voice to airgapped [21:17]
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asciilifeform there is some conflation of unrelated things here [21:18]
asciilifeform bitcoin node is not really a cryptographically-sensitive device [21:18]
asciilifeform (assuming one does not partake in the braindamage of using a node as a wallet) [21:18]
mircea_popescu shit. [21:19]
mircea_popescu janyary my foot! omg! I GOT BUGS! THEY'RE MULTYPLYYNG [21:19]
mircea_popescu an' i'm losing control... [21:19]
airgapped what i'm looking for is just a node, wallet is out of scope [21:20]
airgapped I'm running it on latest rp but pogo looks like good alternative [21:22]
asciilifeform airgapped: read the #b-a logs, there is a wealth of material on the subject [21:22]
airgapped I will, danielpbarron already pointed out his notes [21:23]
cazalla asciilifeform, i read orlov's post soviet lessons.. article last night and my impression is that some of what he predicts relies on suggestion we've passed peak oil, but then i have read elsewhere peak oil has been debunked or that we're not even close to passing it.. can you share thoughts? not much turns up in logs [21:23]
asciilifeform cazalla: the 'debunkings' are crude sham jobs to put the plebes to sleep [21:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11515 @ 0.00038955 = 4.4857 BTC [-] {2} [21:24]
mircea_popescu cazalla it is elementary that if you keep taking out of a sack and never adding, eventually you run out. [21:24]
asciilifeform cazalla: it is worth your while to become acquainted with the actual theory (vs the popular disinfo presentation of it) - rather than 'running out of oil', considerably more complicated (approximately, running out of -economical- oil) [21:24]
mircea_popescu whetrher you care or not - entirely different discussion. [21:24]
asciilifeform likewise, 'running out' is a broad stroke [21:25]
asciilifeform implies the price going from reasonable to $maxint overnight, or the like [21:25]
asciilifeform actual reality of nonrewables exhaustion is considerably more interesting [21:26]
mircea_popescu for that matter... it turns out there's not enough rare earths on earth to make an ipad for each person alive. [21:26]
cazalla mircea_popescu, whether you care or not would be influenced if you are to run out tomorrow or 100-200 years from now though [21:26]
asciilifeform (price spike - not necessarily large, economic convulsions leading to 'demand destruction', price drops, useless mouths resume proliferating, etc. rinse&repeat) [21:26]
asciilifeform cazalla: again, 'run out' is a dodge concept [21:27]
mircea_popescu cazalla this decade is out of the question. [21:27]
asciilifeform no mineral 'runs out' like the air in a diver's tank [21:27]
mircea_popescu but once the saudi flood is done, imo that's it, oil will only ever be expensive. [21:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform oil is not a mineral in this sense tho. [21:27]
mircea_popescu you can't run out of carbon, ie, the element. but you can run out of, say, sugar. venus is a fine example. [21:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'mineral - wrong word, yes. meant 'полезные ископаемые' in general [21:28]
asciilifeform approx. 'useful shit to dig up' [21:28]
asciilifeform implies that you can dig up economically [21:28]
mircea_popescu vespene gas [21:28]
cazalla vespene gas actually works well considering what an end game of broodwar looked like once it ran out [21:29]
mircea_popescu cazalla anyway, practically, the peak oil thing is a lot less interesting now that electric cars have been demonstrated than 20 years ago. (dunno if you know, but this has been a fringe theory for > 50, almost 100 years by now) [21:29]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: moves the mineral question to the storage battery [21:29]
mircea_popescu yes, but that is considerably less explored a space. [21:30]
asciilifeform (as well as the rest of the electro-junk in there) [21:30]
mircea_popescu also, lithium, blessfully, is a lowly element. [21:30]
asciilifeform Li isn't especially abundant in economically recoverable form [21:30]
mircea_popescu that can change. [21:30]
cazalla mircea_popescu, it's not that i'm interested in it (or would understand/appreciate the issue tbh) but it seemed obvious way to poke a hole in orlov's prediction, at least that it might occur in my lifetime anyway [21:31]
asciilifeform if gonna fuse H to get it, may as well do it right in the car... [21:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform "if you're gonna fuck, might as well make the chick you're fucking in the same go" ? [21:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you know how, then yes! [21:31]
mircea_popescu nuts. [21:31]
asciilifeform cazalla: most of orlov's mechanics apply to any kind of anglo world collapse, not necessarily 'petro-flavoured' [21:32]
asciilifeform incidentally [21:33]
asciilifeform the (very old!) nickel-iron battery is superior to Li (and all other extant chemistries) in all respects but energy density [21:34]
asciilifeform virtually indestructible [21:34]
mircea_popescu speaking of which, S.CARS would be pretty cool. a company that a) aspires atmospheric H2, b) fuses it into Li c) which it uses to make car batteries while d) the energy so produced it uses to make the cars and fill them up. [21:34]
asciilifeform iirc there are 100+ year old examples which still function as rated! [21:34]
mircea_popescu prolly not even cost a trillion. [21:34]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform not to mention the earth is about 80% nickel and iron by mass. [21:34]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it also laughs at deep-cycling, overcharging, heat, vibration... [21:35]
asciilifeform but as ancient tech, for some reason not of interest to any existing manufacturer outside of china [21:35]
asciilifeform (where it is used in farm equipment, iirc) [21:35]
mircea_popescu you know, i'd like to read a sf novel which explores a future where technology has re-arranged deep magma of earth into a humongo battery [21:35]
cazalla related to running out of something.. techcrunch reports yesterday's bitcoin auction was the last of dpr's coins.. bloomberg quote usms as saying otherwise [21:36]
mircea_popescu and the human civilisation is organised around the implicit currency of "Stored joules" [21:36]
mircea_popescu cazalla hardest thing for a fraudster is to keep the story straight. [21:36]
asciilifeform ;;google nickel-iron battery [21:37]
gribble nickel iron battery information: ; Nickel–iron battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Nickel-Iron NiFe batteries by Iron Edison: [21:37]
asciilifeform ^ lol, is that an american firm?! [21:38]
asciilifeform wonder what they charge. [21:38]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform iirc decade old data, it cost about 2.5-3x as much but obviously you never had to replace anything. [21:40]
asciilifeform aha [21:40]
asciilifeform like mercedes. [21:40]
mircea_popescu people generally went for the "cheaper" solutions that rarely last 5 years [21:40]
asciilifeform same story as the rest of technocivilization [21:41]
mircea_popescu right. [21:41]
asciilifeform thing wants new electrolyte every 2-3 decades, but it costs pennies [21:41]
mircea_popescu some of the cleverer dcs use them bnecause they're so very tolerant. which makes it the best heuristic to evaluate the operational wisdom of any dc. [21:41]
mircea_popescu "do you have a basementfull of nife ?" "o yeah! shit rocks" vs "say wut ?" [21:42]
mircea_popescu then they run for 4 years and have to replace the batteries, and run for another 2 and there's a lightning strike and have to replace them again. tru story. [21:43]
asciilifeform standard Pb cells are good for 2-3 tops [21:43]
asciilifeform (less if actually put to use) [21:43]
mircea_popescu i don't think you may use pb anymore. [21:43]
asciilifeform pretty much the only remaining use permitted worldwide is battery [21:44]
mircea_popescu mno, actually being phased out, for years now. [21:44]
asciilifeform hm must be eu thing [21:44]
asciilifeform what did they decree? NiMH? [21:44]
mircea_popescu im not really that up to date. prolly. [21:44]
asciilifeform (in usa, cars, trucks, 'ups' - ~100% Pb) [21:45]
mircea_popescu i wouldn't be so sure you'll get permits for new development in the us, eithert. [21:45]
mircea_popescu this is a different discussion. [21:45]
asciilifeform every ups vendor i know of is shipping chinese cells [21:45]
mircea_popescu and new cars also don't really come with lead batteries. [21:45]
asciilifeform haven't seen an auto shop yet that stocks anything but Pb battery [21:45]
asciilifeform and was in one not long ago [21:46]
mircea_popescu aftermarket diff story [21:46]
asciilifeform possibly [21:46]
* kushed is now known as kushed_afk [21:46]
* asciilifeform not diligent scholar of the subject [21:46]
mircea_popescu anyway, to imagine the "ban smoking" thing is an isolated incident is naive. no, there's a shitton of these underway, continuously, and generally unreported. [21:47]
asciilifeform one of the most famous idiocies was the light bulb thing [21:47]
asciilifeform there is always some joker standing ready to take over from whatever widget is up for the ban hammer [21:47]
mircea_popescu 3rd world killer basically. [21:47]
mircea_popescu "O, you're now advanced enough where you could start some light industry ? fu!" [21:48]
asciilifeform they're permitted industry, just under very... different terms [21:48]
asciilifeform more belgian-rubber. [21:48]
mircea_popescu right. the tlp described phenomenon of "oh, this class of medicine is now generic ? guess what, on a review of the data available it turns out it wasn't effective anyway, so we're using Y now instead". [21:49]
asciilifeform pharma sop [21:49]
mircea_popescu it's not just medicine. it's pretty much everything. [21:49]
asciilifeform i'll add that virtually 100% of r&d investment by extant pharma firms is precisely this and only this [21:49]
asciilifeform 'find a place to stick an extra methyl where it won't matter but now patentable' [21:50]
mircea_popescu << holy shit this is the stupidest thing ever. srsly, cpu mining ? [21:53]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 15:37:55; BingoBoingo: [21:53]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell bingoboingo that epicscale debacle prolly qntrable. [21:54]
gribble The operation succeeded. [21:54]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it's on qntra alrady [21:54]
asciilifeform *already [21:54]
mircea_popescu ah nm :) [21:54]
asciilifeform [21:54]
assbot Crapware Still Bundles Mining Software | ... ( ) [21:54]
mircea_popescu sveet. [21:55]
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cazalla [22:17]
assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( ) [22:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2942 @ 0.00038508 = 1.1329 BTC [-] {2} [22:18]
mircea_popescu nuts. [22:18]
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mircea_popescu the demographics of qntra readership as depicted by quantcast never cease to amaze me. [22:19]
mike_c apparently we're all asian men 25-34 [22:21]
cazalla what's behind the push for such things? [22:21]
cazalla maybe qntra needs quotas so that 30% of readers are women [22:21]
mircea_popescu << it's so appalingly dumb tho. cpu bitcoin miner would barely make any satoshi. [22:21]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 19:03:35; asciilifeform: 'join our botnet voluntarily, save orphans!' [22:21]
mircea_popescu mike_c politically active, politically unafilliated, filthy rich, mostly azn, some caucasian. [22:22]
mircea_popescu (in fact it's mostly white with more asian than "normal", which considering the normal is gawker-and-wikipedia dumbternets... ) [22:22]
mircea_popescu mike_c anyway, the demographic that supposedly "doesn'ty exist" and "doesn't matter" and "never wins elections" and so on and so forth. [22:23]
mike_c it'll be interesting to see it after another couple 10x bumps [22:24]
cazalla what's the other in race demo? jews? [22:24]
mircea_popescu prolly, judging by how it looks. [22:24]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: cpu bitcoin miner would barely make any satoshi << cargocult [22:25]
mircea_popescu i dun get it, honest. [22:25]
asciilifeform also - until we hear otherwise - safe to assume that it was mining a crackpot alt [22:25]
asciilifeform (they typically do nowadays) [22:25]
mircea_popescu they specifically said bitcoin tho [22:25]
asciilifeform hm. [22:25]
mircea_popescu but yes, thisd would make sense, with some shitty alt. [22:26]
asciilifeform then unadulterated idiocy [22:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7415 @ 0.00038588 = 2.8613 BTC [+] [22:26]
mircea_popescu btw, anyone put together the "usg will target ammunition rather than small arms" with the "various agencies bought and stored millions of rounds at the beginning of this decade" to come to a "usg will ban ammunition period" thing yet ? [22:27]
mircea_popescu as in, they are actually making rounds the future currency ? [22:27]
asciilifeform lol not deliberately [22:27]
mircea_popescu usg survival plan once shtf ? "well...we got the largest stores of ammo of" [22:28]
asciilifeform even to have it happen by accident would require some sort of standardization [22:28]
mircea_popescu why ? they banned smoking alright [22:28]
mircea_popescu over the dead bodies of smokers. [22:28]
asciilifeform iirc most of the famous stockpile is '.40', a caliber unpopular outside of usg afaik [22:29]
asciilifeform (pistol round) [22:29]
mircea_popescu honestly i'd have stored .5 AP [22:29]
asciilifeform [22:29]
asciilifeform ^ center [22:29]
assbot ... ( ) [22:29]
asciilifeform was, iirc, designed specially for usg [22:29]
mircea_popescu there. [22:30]
assbot ... ( ) [22:30]
mircea_popescu except the thing pictured is not a proper ap round. [22:31]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: are you sure you were thinking of -this- .50 ? [22:31]
mircea_popescu no, it's what wikipedia had. [22:31]
asciilifeform rather than what is called .50 bmg in usa [22:31]
asciilifeform (the one found worldwide, actually used in everything from light aircraft to sniper) [22:32]
asciilifeform << that one [22:32]
assbot ... ( ) [22:32]
mircea_popescu apparently the de .5 ap, explosive, incendiary etc rounds are secret on internet.en ? [22:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the bmg is a machine gun round not a pistol round [22:33]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in english-speaking world 'weirdo' rounds (explode, flechette, etc.) are generally made for '12' shotgun [22:35]
mircea_popescu anyway, the thing is just on the margin : the common "action express" .5 round is generally stopped by a level 3 and always by a level 4 vest. [22:35]
mircea_popescu but the ap variant cuts through any practical armor, and generally can be used against lightly armored aircraft as well. [22:36]
asciilifeform fire at aircraft from pistol barrel, lol! [22:36]
mircea_popescu sure. [22:36]
asciilifeform where, at the airfield ? [22:36]
asciilifeform walk up to it? [22:36]
mircea_popescu urban warfare baby. [22:36]
asciilifeform the .5 pistol is considered a 'crackpot' curio in usa [22:37]
asciilifeform (not sure about elsewhere) [22:37]
mircea_popescu it's hard to fire for womenz. [22:37]
asciilifeform sorta reminiscent of the late-medieval 'hand cannone' [22:37]
mircea_popescu it is just about at the tolerance level of a physically elite man. [22:38]
asciilifeform why not at least give it a wooden folding stock like the old 'mauser' [22:38]
mircea_popescu lol [22:38]
asciilifeform even 'elite' pistolero has wrists, they aren't made of stone [22:38]
mircea_popescu by the time you're shooting this it supposedly no longer matters. [22:38]
mircea_popescu anyway, pointless stock. if you can use stocked stuff just get a carbine or something. [22:39]
asciilifeform << obligatory 'for when it no longer matters' weapon [22:39]
assbot ... ( ) [22:39]
asciilifeform invented - unsurprisingly - in jp [22:40]
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mircea_popescu let's put it the other way : a sharp tungsten tipped .5 round is >20 bux. [22:41]
mircea_popescu you can shoot through us style "walls" by ir with it just fine. [22:41]
mircea_popescu now... how many wrists does 20 bux a round buy ? [22:41]
asciilifeform you can shoot through u.s. 'walls' with almost anything [22:42]
asciilifeform probably even arbalest. [22:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: speaking of small arms, are you familiar with (historic) 'gyrojet' ? [22:42]
asciilifeform famous failed product (no one seems to agree precisely why failed) but very instructive re: yesterday's thread [22:42]
mircea_popescu lol arbalest guerilla regiment. gastraphetes! [22:43]
asciilifeform as it used a miniature rocket (approx. the size of .5 round...) which was fin-stabilized and rotated, it needed only a very simple firing mechanism and low-pressure barrel [22:43]
asciilifeform (smooth of course) [22:43]
mircea_popescu is this the french "rocket" fired from small arm ? [22:43]
asciilifeform but functioned otherwise like a regular pistol [22:43]
asciilifeform american [22:43]
mircea_popescu that trivially ended up pushing against branches etc ? [22:43]
asciilifeform nope [22:43]
asciilifeform after a metre or so, went at same speed as regular round [22:44]
asciilifeform so no good for shooting a fella in the head directly. but otherwise worked [22:44]
asciilifeform today (and for some decades) it is a museum rarity (r. reagan, famously, owned one) [22:44]
asciilifeform but i bring it up because of the 'low-tech small arms' thread [22:44]
asciilifeform needs only very basic metallurgy [22:45]
asciilifeform and can be scaled up arbitrarily [22:45]
asciilifeform (being a rocket rather than cannon) [22:45]
asciilifeform [22:45]
assbot Modern Firearms - Gyrojet ... ( ) [22:45]
asciilifeform ^ basic summary [22:45]
mircea_popescu well... once the usd v2.0 pistol rounds thinkg takes form, we can make these :D [22:45]
mircea_popescu << note that there weren't nearly as many of these in 1995. [22:47]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 20:35:22; trinque: they can try; there are hordes of rednecks in the woods already stocked up for armageddon [22:47]
mircea_popescu in a sense, the trying causes it. [22:47]
asciilifeform << rocket [22:47]
assbot ... ( ) [22:47]
mircea_popescu << nope, not yet. it still pays. [22:48]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 20:38:28; asciilifeform: if there were a 'rural militia' with above room-temperature iq, usa would already look like iraq [22:48]
asciilifeform (looks like i misremembered re: fins) [22:48]
mircea_popescu give it a week and a half of "we can no longer give you free stuff" [22:48]
mircea_popescu remember that time when food stamp system ran out of funds, took a three day hiaturs, everyone held their breath ? [22:48]
trinque nobody I was talking about collects food stamps [22:48]
mircea_popescu that was the equivalent of the mike hearn "let's test bitcoin". the result came out kinda clearly - 9 maybe 10 days. that's it. [22:49]
mircea_popescu trinque sure. but they're not the problem, either. [22:49]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: would like Francis Underwood if he were a real person. [22:50]
mircea_popescu ;;ud Francis Underwood [22:50]
gribble | Representative Francis J. “Frank” Underwood (born July 26, 1959) is the House Majority Whip and anti-hero of the hit Netflix original "House of Cards". He is, on ... [22:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4985 @ 0.00039876 = 1.9878 BTC [-] [22:50]
mircea_popescu << i think you grossly misunderstand it. yes, they'd love to be left alone, yes all of them could grow with no deliveries of anything. [22:51]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 20:41:27; asciilifeform: trinque: as i understand, this isn't ru circa 1917, the hypothetical rebels don't 'just want to be left alone' - not one in ten thousand is able to grow anything edible without regular deliveries of petrol, pesticides, etc. [22:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you must be thinking of another usa on another alternate planet earth [22:51]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: i just think you'd admire someone who'd want to completely gut the welfare state [22:52]
mircea_popescu recall, i actually spent months walking that place. [22:52]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where ? [22:52]
thestringpuller s/admire/respect [22:52]
asciilifeform appalachia ? [22:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform from boston to nuevo laredo, all the way. [22:52]
trinque granted my parents farm might not be the most defensible place, but it *does* produce using about 1850s level tech [22:52]
asciilifeform or perhaps where the amish are found ? [22:52]
asciilifeform there are a few places with 'living fossils' yes [22:52]
mircea_popescu i spent months going from town to town by bus. [22:52]
trinque the place even has its own natural gas well, heh [22:52]
trinque mircea_popescu: wow, very cool [22:53]
mircea_popescu so it may be a case that YOU be thinking of another usa hm ? :D [22:53]
asciilifeform trinque: the place even has its own natural gas well << realize that it turns the place into a non-negotiable military objective - read: target - rather than survival haven [22:53]
mircea_popescu i thoughjt the discussion was "left alone" [22:53]
mircea_popescu trinque chetty was with me! [22:54]
trinque mircea_popescu: I want the book on your life someday. [22:54]
trinque I'd probably have to learn romanian and read that part of trilema [22:54]
asciilifeform my understanding (by no means perfect) is that the 'can produce and feed selves with 1850 tech' and 'armed for civil war' crowds are disjoint sets in usa [22:55]
mircea_popescu lol. that'd work. [22:55]
trinque asciilifeform: that part does probably rule out the place in particular [22:55]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform used to be, 20 years ago. [22:55]
mircea_popescu they broadly merged. [22:55]
trinque my point was people can produce food [22:55]
trinque the gas isn't involved in the food production [22:55]
trinque just makes keeping the cows alive easier [22:55]
asciilifeform trinque: the gas makes the spot a strategic objective for anyone with pretensions of keeping some basic tech going and any kind of army whatsoever [22:56]
trinque no no, I concede that [22:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the scenario was "stop the trucks!" [22:56]
asciilifeform (most likely whatever the largest and nearest usg fragment is) [22:57]
trinque the trucks stop and they still eat, til someone comes for the natural gas [22:57]
mircea_popescu well... maybe his uncle! [22:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the short-term picture? sure [22:57]
mircea_popescu thjis idea that the remnants automatically inherit the land is naive. one in ten is my experience. [22:57]
asciilifeform usg doesn't need 'the land' (again ru-1917 thinking pattern) for much. only the gas wells, etc., industry, fields, slaves [22:58]
mircea_popescu this idea that the remnants automatically inherit a chunk of the future is naive. one in ten is my experience. [22:59]
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asciilifeform probably not automatic, no [23:00]
mircea_popescu the reason there even is a remnant in the first place - vz, the collapse - is that they didn't have enough virility in the system. [23:01]
mircea_popescu it's not magically sprung up by the end. expect a good half of usg to just lay down and die, just like that. [23:01]
asciilifeform but the folks with actual mil training (plus shoulder-launched antitank rockets, real-time satellite view, other goodies) will have a 'fair' fight with the others over it. [23:01]
mircea_popescu expect the aspirational 20% to murder the rest of the 40% in the process of selecting the half of itself that may go on. [23:01]
asciilifeform sop [23:02]
mircea_popescu right. so... one in ten. [23:02]
trinque so the stepdad's ex-mil and well armed/trained [23:02]
mircea_popescu and 0% of the "responsibility to govern". if two dukedoms over someone makes clitoris stu, expect nobody to care. [23:02]
trinque whatever that's worth in the situation [23:02]
mircea_popescu trinque hence " well... maybe his uncle!" [23:02]
trinque what I'm gathering though is I have very little rational options beyond get rich, and do it now [23:03]
mircea_popescu that'd be the gist of it. [23:03]
asciilifeform if two dukedoms over someone makes clitoris stu, expect nobody to care << the whole notion that someone must care, is a bizarre creation of the patients in usg asylum [23:03]
mircea_popescu unlike at... no point in history, lol. [23:03]
trinque heh, yeah [23:03]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform aye. [23:03]
* mircea_popescu delights in picturing the hordes of "awareness raisers". [23:03]
mircea_popescu "have you raised any awareness today, brother ?" [23:04]
trinque compulsively plugging dead phones into dead outlets over and over [23:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4401 @ 0.00039876 = 1.7549 BTC [-] [23:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00040964 = 4.7928 BTC [+] {2} [23:15]
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asciilifeform has anyone here managed to get adacore's 'gps' to run on anything other than winblows ? [23:20]
asciilifeform (or so much as tried) [23:20]
scoopbot New post on by cazalla: [23:23]
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decimation re: batteries < I've never heard of a non-Pb car battery [23:32]
assbot Safety Data Sheets (SDS) | Interstate Batteries, Inc. ... ( ) [23:32]
decimation asciilifeform: re: gyrojet < lol "recoiless rifle" from your fist? Does the exhaust burn your eye out too? [23:36]
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mircea_popescu << "a whore floats in all weather". [23:54]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 21:00:46; danielpbarron: i'm probably in the *worst* place to be when this stuff goes down, although asciilifeform's locale doesn't sound very pleasant either [23:54]
mircea_popescu location's really a secondary concern. [23:54]
mircea_popescu <<< fwiw, i watch films made in the past 20 years <1% of the time. [23:55]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 21:10:10; cazalla: the majority of movies are shit anyway so even if i had the time to watch them on the reg, they are not even worth pirating [23:55]
mircea_popescu talk about a scavenger cult [23:55]
mircea_popescu << prolly good idea to make this policy now. archive and screenshot EVERYTHING. [23:58]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 21:24:35; cazalla: BingoBoingo, maybe should've saved the utorrent forum complaints.. forum offline now lol [23:58]
mircea_popescu thing works fine. [23:58]
mircea_popescu << so what's the problem with that ? [23:59]
assbot Logged on 06-03-2015 21:25:02; asciilifeform: trinque: the hypothetical 'mutual assistance' org you suggest would roughly resolve to a 'society for let's we all get filthy rich, and not warren-buffet-usg-rich either, but mircea_popescu-rich' [23:59]
Category: Logs
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