Forum logs for 06 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

mircea_popescu	but in gauzy news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maznqwHuZ81qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[00:04]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1K3Nn1g )	[00:04]
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BingoBoingo	BingoBoingo: the slashdot thing is raw sewage. srsly i 'want my five minutes back' plox. << Ask gasenwagen driver for a cigarette when the time comes	[00:20]
BingoBoingo	In other news that time you personally get called a lunatic by Luke-Jr and not just a lunatic, but the only lunatic whose opinon doesn't matter. https://archive.is/ChHAo	[00:44]
assbot	luke-jr comments on "Intel Chips To Get Slower" <- Particularly relevant for scaling ... ( http://bit.ly/1SyNCVe )	[00:44]
BingoBoingo	Does anyone know if there's a prize for that	[00:44]
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BingoBoingo	!up adnn	[01:02]
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danielpbarron	heh, dat vpn	[01:07]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00056313 = 1.0136 BTC [+]	[01:13]
BingoBoingo	I have no idea when I'm going to stop glowing about recieving special contempt from Luke-Jr	[01:24]
BingoBoingo	!up Luke-Jr	[01:25]
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Luke-Jr	wait, that's you? I thought it was mircea_popescu	[01:26]
BingoBoingo	No it's Mircea doesn't have time to write that much for Qntra.	[01:26]
BingoBoingo	!down Luke-Jr Before you take my glow away	[01:27]
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danielpbarron	hehe	[01:27]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell Luke-Jr Fuck yourself for editing that reddit comment and taking my glow away. I want you to go to the grave of blessed Mary mother of Jesus and very deeply and profoundly fuck yourself.	[01:30]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:30]
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BingoBoingo	17 months of Qntra, with 5 of them at the helm... I though I hit a significant milestone. Then it turns out that either I was honestly confused for Mircea Popescu or just maybe... Luke-Jr just tried to steal that milestone because he has so much contempt for me he was compelled to steal my satisfaction.	[01:35]
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thestringpuller	Luke-Jr keeps on derpin'	[01:53]
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mircea_popescu	lol poor bb.	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	dun worry man, we still know you're really me.	[02:29]
BingoBoingo	lol	[02:48]
mircea_popescu	"For the purposes of this vexatious litigation decision what is important is whether or not delivering the September 25, 2015 documents to the Alberta Court of Queen’s Bench satisfies the actus reus and mens rea requirements of Criminal Code, s 423.1. On a balance of probabilities, I conclude that it does."	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	epic. civil procedure applied to criminal code adjudications.	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	this guy is pretty lulzy.	[02:54]
deedbot-	[Trilema] MPIF (F.MPIF) January 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/mpif-fmpif-january-2016-statement/	[02:54]
mircea_popescu	" The fact that this Court would never have entered Boisjoli’s materials as a default judgment that could then be enforced by ‘conventional’ means is immaterial. Criminal Code, s 24(1) is explicit that the fact an attempt to commit an offence could not succeed is irrelevant to whether or not that offence was attempted:	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	24.(1) Every one who, having an intent to commit an offence, does or omits to do anything for the purpose of carrying out the intention is guilty of an attempt to commit the offence whether or not it was possible under the circumstances to commit the offence."	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	hurr.	[02:56]
mircea_popescu	check out the great laws they got up north!	[02:56]
BingoBoingo	Truly is 'Murica's hat	[03:06]
mircea_popescu	"[112] I make the above order on an interim basis effective immediately. In keeping with the procedure adopted in R v Fearn, at para 54, Chutskoff v Bonora, at para 138, and Lymer (Re), 2014 ABQB 696 (CanLII) at para 58, final operation of this Order is stayed for 30 days until November 6, 2015 to allow the Minister of Justice and Solicitor General to make submissions to change or vary this order, per Judicature A	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	ct, s 23.1(3), should the Minister of Justice and Attorney General wish to do so within that period of time. Absent any submissions this order will become final on November 6, 2015." << the best part is that the dude spent a while harping about how bullshit foisted agreements are bullshit ; then went on to do EXACTLY the same ; and all the while fails to understand wtf exactly impels the guy to behave thusly.	[03:11]
mircea_popescu	doh. he doesn't think you're special. because you're all equals and whatnot. what's so hard to grasp ?	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	gee whiz, i wonder where plaintif caught on this idea that "unless you so and so in 30 days you so and so"	[03:12]
mircea_popescu	then the bit where he attacks the notary is particularly precious.	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	"[116] I have previously concluded, on a balance of probabilities, that these documents were intended to illegally assert a debt against the Officer and Alberta, and that the attempt to file the documents Powell notarized is an indictable criminal offense. Powell is obviously in breach of the Code of Conduct."	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck is the notary to know what you'll find when the stuff he notarizes butthurts your preferred coloring of reality ?	[03:13]
mircea_popescu	bonus points for the item two paragraphs supra, where the judge nigh-on admits that he tried to track down the guy and have a little behind the scenes compact with him. sadly he wasn't also a laywer. this of course is deeply different from "criminal scheme to bla bla".	[03:15]
*	mircea_popescu fucking loves reading all these SOPS rulings, the beatings the justice system applies to itself trying to fight reddit-level crazies is delightful.	[03:15]
mircea_popescu	bonus points to where j d rooke got so hot and bothered under the collar he originally made a ruling so broken (through disallowing appeal improperly) he had to come in with a "corrigendum", which apparently is how it works in canada.	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	in every jurisdiction i heard of clerical errors can be corrected by order, unless it touches to the substance. but again, canada, who knows.	[03:23]
mircea_popescu	getting back to the other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m83s9b6zNK1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[03:25]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/23P7Z3K )	[03:25]
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punkman	http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Home/Web/TAD/FuturePCHardware.html#l1	[04:18]
assbot	The Temple Operating System ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qjn185 )	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	hahaha templeos guy is making his own hardware now ?	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	alf starts all the good fads ;/	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	"We will make a spec for a perfectly standardized, $2500, cryogenically-cooled	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	monster desktop PC. Everybody in the developed world will buy one over the next	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	ten years, so quantity of 400,000,000, perhaps"	[04:20]
punkman	gotta love terry	[04:21]
mircea_popescu	his point re heat is actually quite sound. why the fuck do i have a cpu instead of a motherboard sized asic thing ?	[04:22]
punkman	because 300mm wafer slice is expensive?	[04:22]
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mircea_popescu	computers should come on fucking fabric already, i go to the shop buy 8 meters of opteron.	[04:22]
punkman	that's more reasonable yes	[04:23]
punkman	"the display will be 4K (and of course 640x480 16 color)" heh	[04:27]
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punkman	http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Doc/RedSea.html#l1 candidate for bitcoin-fs?	[04:36]
assbot	The Temple Operating System ... ( http://bit.ly/1Qjo87M )	[04:36]
punkman	"We do not want UTF, just 8-bit characters. Somebody needs to choose new 8-bit ASCII characters for 128-255, since we do not want text graphic symbols. We want Russian, Greek or Hebrew alphabets, perhaps? ... Japan, China and Korea should switch-over to alphabets. Maybe, the United States will change to metric, out of good will."	[04:43]
danielpbarron	>> God said Linux's Wine should replace Windows. << of course he never cites chapter and verse on any of these "God said"s	[04:46]
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punkman	he cites a lot of verses, but also has some kind of bible-markov-chain that says new things	[04:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00056557 = 3.7893 BTC [+] {2}	[04:57]
fluffypony	danielpbarron: duh, he's quoting 1 Terry 7:38	[04:58]
fluffypony	"And in those days god spake unto Terry. And he said unto him: 'Terry', for that was name. And he proceeded to say: 'Terry, we need to talk about Windows.'"	[05:00]
fluffypony	and so on	[05:00]
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punkman	http://jollyrogertelephone.com/	[05:32]
assbot	Jolly Roger Telephone ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd73i4 )	[05:32]
punkman	http://www.wsj.com/articles/high-salaries-haunt-some-job-hunters-1454634475	[05:38]
assbot	High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd7tF9 )	[05:38]
punkman	http://assets.bwbx.io/images/ioXhw1XZQPAo/v1/-1x-1.png	[05:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd7ARg )	[05:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4150 @ 0.00056313 = 2.337 BTC [-] {2}	[06:35]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00056557 = 4.0155 BTC [+] {2}	[06:49]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15998 @ 0.00056069 = 8.9699 BTC [-] {2}	[07:09]
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punkman	https://github.com/Whonix/gpg-bash-lib	[07:40]
assbot	GitHub - Whonix/gpg-bash-lib: gpg file verification bash library, addresses comprehensive threat model, that covers file name tampering, indefinite freeze, rollback, endless data attacks, etc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1USQMAo )	[07:40]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00056558 = 5.5427 BTC [+]	[08:38]
BingoBoingo	!Up fuc	[09:00]
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BingoBoingo	From the mines: Tinder has blocked one New Jersey 23-year-old, Robyn Gedrich, from using the app after several users reported her for spamming them with the same request: “Do you feel the bern? Please text WORK to 82623 for me. Thanks!” She sent that message to dozens of matches each day for two weeks straight.	[09:00]
punkman	http://watson2016.com/	[09:12]
assbot	Watson for President 2016 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SzU3Hs )	[09:12]
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BingoBoingo	In other marginal news: Docker, employer of the late Debian Founder, has now hired the Alpine Linux founder and is moving all their images to that. Might be relevant if anyone was looking at that musl based distro	[09:31]
BingoBoingo	punkman: Watson's not old enough. IBM's Deep Blue and Deep Though aren't quite old enough yet.	[09:32]
BingoBoingo	Gotta be 35, so ChipTest will be old enough for the 2020 elections	[09:33]
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BingoBoingo	Now U of Illinois's Plato could run if it didn't die in 2006. Born in 1960 so 11 years older than Rubio.	[09:35]
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BingoBoingo	Of potential ethical and slutical interest http://www.courier-journal.com/story/sports/college/louisville/2016/02/05/sources-u-l-imposing-postseason-hoops-ban/79878760/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=	[09:51]
assbot	Louisville Basketball self-imposed post-season ban for 2015-16 season ... ( http://bit.ly/20NBIaW )	[09:51]
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BingoBoingo	"The decision comes as the NCAA continues to investigate Katina Powell’s claims that she and other escorts were paid thousands of dollars and given game tickets by former basketball staffer Andre McGee in exchange for dancing for and having sex with U of L players and recruits from 2010-14. The NCAA could still levy further sanctions on U of L in addition to the self-imposed penalty, but university president James Ramsey is hope	[09:52]
BingoBoingo	ful that the postseason ban will reduce the harshness of any potential punishment in the future."	[09:52]
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BingoBoingo	!up pete_d_out	[09:59]
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pete_d_out	cheers bb	[09:59]
BingoBoingo	You're welcome	[10:00]
BingoBoingo	No shortage of logs for pete	[10:03]
pete_d_out	so catching up : mp opened a nifty contest, intel affirmed the sensibility of the current blocksize, mccollarbone is on "pace" to win the bitbet, and my qntra about technology and politics, if admittedly not about bitcoin, was a bit long-winded. did i miss anything else ?	[10:03]
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pete_d_out	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397676 <-- found more from this same lulzathon here, for those interested in how the legal system in petelandia works (or doesn't) --> http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?t=10814	[10:08]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 06:15:26; *: mircea_popescu fucking loves reading all these SOPS rulings, the beatings the justice system applies to itself trying to fight reddit-level crazies is delightful.	[10:08]
assbot	Allen Boisjoli - Alberta stomps on vexatious OPCA lititgant - Quatloos! ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKsCd2 )	[10:08]
BingoBoingo	pete_d_out: When you're authed we'll have the discussion to guide the sense of humor in the future that changes everything	[10:08]
pete_d_out	okie dokie karoake	[10:09]
BingoBoingo	pete_d_out: Well McCollarbone is only on pace if he keeps up the pace set in the sample size of two games he has after returning so far.	[10:11]
pete_d_out	aha, see : https://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#c5612	[10:11]
assbot	BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No \| closed 6 days 13 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/20NDbOo )	[10:11]
BingoBoingo	It's not so ridiculous. He's just gotta average a bit over two point per game for the rest of the season.	[10:13]
pete_d_out	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397706 <-- para los que non tienen una suscripcion --> https://archive.is/5QNIo	[10:15]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 08:38:34; assbot: High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pd7tF9 )	[10:15]
assbot	High Salaries Haunt Some Job Hunters - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKtcHV )	[10:15]
pete_d_out	BingoBoingo that's not ridiculous like gavin averaging 100 btc per annum salary for the rest of his days, just as he did when vessenes scam was peaking, isn't ridiculous	[10:16]
pete_d_out	in the same way and for the same reasons	[10:17]
BingoBoingo	Well, the bet is if he lives up to the hype. Doing that for a career? Ridiculous. For 29-30 games perfectly possible if improbable as reflected by the BitBet odds	[10:17]
BingoBoingo	This one seems to be just about as improbably as the money on BitBet demonstrates, and I'm really liking the money I put on "Yes" before he got injured.	[10:19]
pete_d_out	ya, 25:1 isn't far off.	[10:19]
pete_d_out	in other, "how do we measure our cocks, in cm or inches" news, http://www.cnbc.com/2016/02/05/most-expensive-car-ever-auctioned-it-depends.html	[10:20]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1TKtwGx )	[10:20]
pete_d_out	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396802 << heh. "moolteepahs"	[10:22]
assbot	Logged on 04-02-2016 21:59:36; ascii_butugychag: remember the 'desk elephant' ?	[10:22]
pete_d_out	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396683 << o.O i can't be the only one who'd like to hear the rest of this story.	[10:29]
assbot	Logged on 04-02-2016 20:43:37; ascii_butugychag: or the one who came by my old office disguised as 'friendly neighbour, retired blahblahblah'	[10:29]
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BingoBoingo	!up pete_d_out	[10:35]
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pete_d_out	gracias	[10:35]
pete_d_out	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396617 << bwahaha. finally a use for gimps.	[10:37]
assbot	Logged on 04-02-2016 20:20:17; ascii_butugychag: 'fuck you, my public key is m * the next mersenne prime'	[10:37]
pete_d_out	might cause a bit of lag in communication, making 'practical blockchain telegraphy' look zippy, but hey, if it's important enough..	[10:40]
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pete_d_out	"Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.	[10:43]
pete_d_out	“Workers are still a little discounted” in most fields, said Linda Barrington, executive director of the Institute for Compensation Studies at Cornell University’s ILR School. “Employers won’t pay what the last person in the job was paid because labor is now on sale.”" << ahh, i can taste the sweet butthurt tears of bahamas and his dream of a fully employed economy. "no one could've predicted" eh ?	[10:43]
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pete_d_out	in other, "no you can't have nice things if you're a plebe" news : http://www.eweek.com/pc-hardware/amd-unveils-virtualized-gpus-new-quiet-chips.html	[10:48]
assbot	AMD Unveils Virtualized GPUs, New Quiet Chips ... ( http://bit.ly/1TKw47D )	[10:48]
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BingoBoingo	If AMD can survive its debt for 5-7 years, they'll be in a pretty sweet place for competing with Intel.	[10:51]
pete_d_out	" In the latest move, AMD unveiled its FirePro S-Series GPUs that include the company's hardware-virtualization GPU architecture, Multiuser GPU (MxGPU). The technology is aimed at such segments as virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI), remote workstations, cloud gaming and cloud computing." << is cloud gaming a thing now ? i thought it was all ipad gaming.	[10:51]
pete_d_out	BingoBoingo sorta like which of medusa's heads "wins" at this point	[10:52]
pete_d_out	or cerberus or or etc	[10:52]
BingoBoingo	Cloud gaming is how they suppose they will feed iPads 3D graphics	[10:52]
pete_d_out	aha	[10:52]
pete_d_out	as if the nonexistent demand for counterstrike on an ipad is such a market driver	[10:53]
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pete_d_out	but ianag	[10:53]
BingoBoingo	I dunno that customers actually want it. More a buzzword collision that attracts dumb money.	[10:54]
BingoBoingo	From people who don't grok the whole network latency deal.	[10:54]
pete_d_out	like "social media synergy" or "the uber of plasticine houses"	[10:54]
BingoBoingo	Well consider what AMD did with their first generation "Bobcat" fusion chips. Fallout 3 was a bit old when those came out, but when the Bobcats were introduce there was no other way to play fallout 3 in the same power consumption envelope.	[10:56]
BingoBoingo	Gotta stamp out the latency wherever it lives	[10:57]
*	BingoBoingo waits for Bitcoin node on SSD controller chip tutorial	[10:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00056802 = 5.9642 BTC [+] {2}	[10:58]
pete_d_out	speaking of power consumption and moore's law, i hadn't realised that intel had claimed that the ~pentium 4~ would reach 10 ghz, nor that they actually manufactured the p4 at 3.8 ghz... in 2008. the only reason higher power outputs weren't produced en masse was that, apparently, the chips were already consuming 130w at 3.8 ghz and power consumption scaled linearly from there.	[10:58]
pete_d_out	fuck, i'd totally run a 10 ghz pentium. not like i pay for leccy.	[10:59]
pete_d_out	BingoBoingo that'd be pretty neat	[10:59]
BingoBoingo	pete_d_out: 5gHz overclocks aren't that new	[11:00]
*	pete_d_out imagines unplugging 220v stove to run p4 beastputer	[11:00]
pete_d_out	BingoBoingo that's exactly moore's problem	[11:00]
BingoBoingo	You know AMD chips overclock too.	[11:00]
pete_d_out	they're damn near a decade old!	[11:01]
BingoBoingo	If going 2008 vintage might as well make sure you get ECC and x64 that works with everything on the board	[11:01]
pete_d_out	"oh, but we added more cores so it feeeeels faster"	[11:01]
BingoBoingo	Well more core makes sense on 1 level, places to put other shit. It's what buying opteron fabric by the yard would be based on	[11:02]
pete_d_out	well, my clock's running out. i'll check back in soon :)	[11:02]
BingoBoingo	later	[11:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10456 @ 0.00055879 = 5.8427 BTC [-] {3}	[11:06]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397676 << rule of lawl	[12:30]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 06:15:26; *: mircea_popescu fucking loves reading all these SOPS rulings, the beatings the justice system applies to itself trying to fight reddit-level crazies is delightful.	[12:30]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397683 << fart in the wind	[12:30]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 07:19:55; mircea_popescu: hahaha templeos guy is making his own hardware now ?	[12:30]
asciilifeform	let's see him 'make' so much as a flashlight.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397690 << aha.	[12:31]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 07:22:22; punkman: because 300mm wafer slice is expensive?	[12:31]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397691 << fpga fabric. as i described maybe 1,001 times.	[12:31]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 07:22:28; mircea_popescu: computers should come on fucking fabric already, i go to the shop buy 8 meters of opteron.	[12:31]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397693 << the secret gag is that the 4k refers to... usd. it must.	[12:32]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 07:26:50; punkman: "the display will be 4K (and of course 640x480 16 color)" heh	[12:32]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397698 << templeos comes with a 'talk to god' terminal.	[12:33]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 07:55:33; punkman: he cites a lot of verses, but also has some kind of bible-markov-chain that says new things	[12:33]
asciilifeform	i never looked into what his entropy source is. if it's a prng, straight to hell.	[12:33]
BingoBoingo	There's 4k screens under $800 now, but at what COST!!!	[12:33]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: a fella i know installed one on his desk instead of a proper monitor. looks - imho - like shit	[12:33]
asciilifeform	pixels the size of gridpaper squares.	[12:34]
asciilifeform	and go and try turning it into vertical orientation, looks like shit soup	[12:34]
asciilifeform	(the correct orientation for a programmer's display is vertical.)	[12:34]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397712 << holy FUCK what a steaming crock of shit. where does punkman find these ?	[12:35]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 10:40:29; punkman: https://github.com/Whonix/gpg-bash-lib	[12:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397741 << to the extent that this is an actual thing, it is an ancient plague, e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-08-2015#1223259 , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-08-2015#1223627	[12:37]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:15:25; pete_d_out: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397706 <-- para los que non tienen una suscripcion --> https://archive.is/5QNIo	[12:37]
assbot	Logged on 03-08-2015 17:23:51; ascii_field: gernika: for the record, i once tried to get 'blue collar' work, and failed. turned away, 'overqualified, you'll leave as soon as you can'	[12:37]
assbot	Logged on 04-08-2015 02:48:13; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-08-2015#1223506 << i've said it before, will say again: if you can fake your way out of 'overqualified, go away' when applying to be a cook or street sweeper, you can and will work profitably in hollywood or cia	[12:37]
BingoBoingo	and go and try turning it into vertical orientation, looks like shit soup << AMD thinkpadish was acquired for acceptable vertical quality. Imagined myself holding it like a book for ebook reading.	[12:37]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: ick	[12:37]
asciilifeform	mega-unbalance	[12:38]
BingoBoingo	Turns out... occasions I'd want to do that instead of imagine doing that are rare.	[12:38]
asciilifeform	or was it one of those things that folds 180 degree	[12:38]
BingoBoingo	It goes out to near 180 flat	[12:38]
asciilifeform	nono, the other way	[12:38]
asciilifeform	where you end up with the keyboard parallel to and behind the screen	[12:39]
BingoBoingo	Fuck no.	[12:39]
asciilifeform	then useless	[12:39]
BingoBoingo	But actually rather well balanced	[12:39]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << work in moar webdev, aha	[12:40]
BingoBoingo	I thank the battery protruding from the back for that.	[12:40]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:43:34; pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.	[12:40]
asciilifeform	being on the interchangeable-part end of fungibility sucks, newz at 11	[12:40]
mircea_popescu	in lieu of good morning, http://36.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2pm9kcA871qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[12:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nUfSEX )	[12:40]
asciilifeform	guten morgen mircea_popescu	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	how is the world today!	[12:41]
BingoBoingo	Not very changed from yesterday	[12:43]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397765 << if you crunch the simple arithmetic re: propagation delays, it reveals that one of two things: a) whole thing is a scam, not actually intended to happen in physical reality b) collectivized, 'kolhoz' of gaming processor will be installed on street corner router cabinets, one per 100 houses or so, this will go great with ownership of actual computer being Officially forb	[12:43]
asciilifeform	idden	[12:43]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:51:36; pete_d_out: " In the latest move, AMD unveiled its FirePro S-Series GPUs that include the company's hardware-virtualization GPU architecture, Multiuser GPU (MxGPU). The technology is aimed at such segments as virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI), remote workstations, cloud gaming and cloud computing." << is cloud gaming a thing now ? i thought it was all ipad gaming.	[12:43]
asciilifeform	and b) would put amd on the leading edge of advanced usgtronics of the Fyootoor, at last	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you think this because you don't know gaming.	[12:44]
asciilifeform	in not entirely unrelated news, old-stock opteron cpus are being sold in crates of 1,000+, for ~1-2 usd/ea. in qty.	[12:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: which kind of gaming a) uses gpu silicon b) tolerates 100ms+ wire delay ?	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	i dunno how familiar you are with ipad/android on one hand, and steam and derivatives on the other ; but amd's ploy is plainly to make a hardware-sum-of-these.	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	it won't work, for many reasons, but they are desperate so reaching out for stevejobian straws.	[12:45]
asciilifeform	no but think. whole point of gpu is acceleration	[12:45]
mircea_popescu	ipad gaming, that kind of gaming.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	it has no purpose (when used as prescribed) aside from throwing pixels on a screen in real time	[12:46]
asciilifeform	~in real time~	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	there's a large segment of idiots that moved to "eye candy slowly" paradigm	[12:46]
asciilifeform	not 100ms later	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	no real time exists anywhere near anything apple.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	idk i saw a perfectly fine 'doom' running on ipad	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes & his hipster friends are happy to wait 30 s for a webmail screen to load	[12:46]
mircea_popescu	that you might have, now go play angry birds.	[12:46]
asciilifeform	iirc that's a '80s-style 2d arcade thing	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	even the notion of "pvp" has been perverted into "pick a team out of this list and cpu will play it for you - thereby you're attacking another player"	[12:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform exactly. this is what they do, because this is what the mob wants, because mob is mentally retarded. PRETTIFY angry birds!	[12:47]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Last I checked Angry Birds runs in most turd browsers with user agent set to chrome	[12:47]
asciilifeform	game began and ended with msdos for me	[12:48]
asciilifeform	fortunately there are more wonderful dos titles than i have expected life left	[12:48]
*	shinohai imagines asciilifeform playing the Oregon Trail still ....	[12:48]
asciilifeform	'you have died of death, please play again'	[12:48]
asciilifeform	when i say dos, i mean '90s dos.	[12:48]
asciilifeform	not dark age.	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	yes, this is fine and good, i'm just saying the reasons they do what they do are outside of your experience.	[12:49]
asciilifeform	probably. but nobody cancelled speed of light.	[12:49]
mircea_popescu	basically [a segment of] gaming has turned into "gimme a minimally interactive tv show"	[12:49]
asciilifeform	this began in '90s with the appearance of cdrom	[12:49]
asciilifeform	and continued.	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	the trend is evident enoughj that fucking southpark mocked the tendency of kids to prefer to watch youtube vids of other people playing their games.	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	much like their parents much prefer to watch video footage of other [black, preferably] men fucking their wives.	[12:50]
asciilifeform	took a giant leap forward with the extinction of the intelligent, discerning game consumer	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	so in this sense, something like "gpu-powered ipad game, 100ms delayed" is a great competition for cable tv	[12:50]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: South Park's "Stick of Truth" pretty much set the bar for interactive TV sold as game	[12:50]
mircea_popescu	as social media and general laziness drove the cost of producing tv shows why the fuck up, forcing ever present decreases in quality,	[12:51]
mircea_popescu	it's feasible average consumer would prefer to watch visually upgraded angry birds on amd hardware to watching another talkshow.	[12:51]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397780 << straight to your local welding shop, pete_d_out, and fill up yer dewar with ln2, this is an ancient recipe	[12:52]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:59:04; pete_d_out: fuck, i'd totally run a 10 ghz pentium. not like i pay for leccy.	[12:52]
asciilifeform	(it doesn't go straight on the cpu, no, will crack the mb and drown in condensation. it goes in the tank through which you pump the oil.)	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2016/thats-right-time-to-move-on-please-do-bitcoin-is-really-not-for-you/#comment-116450 << does anyone understand what this fellow is saying ?	[12:53]
assbot	That's right, time to move on. Please do. Bitcoin is really not for you. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nUh3nN )	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	quoted here because my spamthing identified it as legit, and i had do to a triple taker and im STILL not convinced this is not a spam script.	[12:53]
asciilifeform	spam.	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	how do you know ?	[12:53]
mircea_popescu	i gotta train this machine.	[12:53]
BingoBoingo	Phillipino on acid, no real way to mechanically filter	[12:54]
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asciilifeform	l0l reads sorta like an actual mentally defective human doesnnit	[12:54]
adlai	> Blocksteams	[12:54]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Gotta be defective human	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	dude i have no idea, might be cultural barrier.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	maybe that's how you'rte supposed to speak in indian.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	one of the 7000 of them out there anyway.	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	more languages spoken in india than languages spoken in total.	[12:55]
BingoBoingo	Actually does look like maybe a poorly hand corrected google translate	[12:55]
mircea_popescu	anyway, it includes one link, and that link does not work.	[12:56]
asciilifeform	'why did 33 crores (330M) of gods never cough up a flush toilet?' -- uncle al	[12:56]
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mircea_popescu	i happen to have an answer for that.	[12:56]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: It's a personal landing page site done in Angular.js so invisible to sane browsers	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	the lords had women to lick their asshole clean ; the rest of the world can go hang.	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	i am not overall so convinced clasical eastern despotisms were so very wrong. yes provably wrong, but then again so is the west.	[12:57]
punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397806 << I saw mention of nist public rng thing	[12:57]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 15:33:16; asciilifeform: i never looked into what his entropy source is. if it's a prng, straight to hell.	[12:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not so much 'wrong' as have obvious engineering limits. just as the west has own, aha	[12:58]
BingoBoingo	I dunno about provably wrong. Giving Hegel a spin has me feeling rather favorable to the classical eastern despotisms he shat on.	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the idea being then that perhaps with better management.,..	[12:58]
punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397812 recommended in gpg-users ml. needs moar stuff sticking out the sides	[12:58]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 15:35:08; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397712 << holy FUCK what a steaming crock of shit. where does punkman find these ?	[12:58]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo wanted to show you what i see, but archive.is hanged for 30s + on GET https://176651799.log.optimizely.com/event?a=176651799&d=176651799&y=false&src=js&s177247141=false&s177238534=gc&s177274055=direct&tsent=1454774294.31&n=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2F&u=oeu1454774294298r0.48049287940375507&wxhr=true&time=1454774294.309&f=2389180153&g=&cx2=a0df6d22	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	make that more like 2 minutes.	[12:59]
BingoBoingo	Anyways Qntra had its not sure if spam comment http://qntra.net/2016/02/intel-chips-to-get-slower/#comment-45062	[12:59]
assbot	Intel: Chips To Get Slower \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QjQ4Z2 )	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	hey everyone : you NEEEEED!!!11 optimizely.com	[12:59]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: That's what angular.js does	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	they'll fuck up your pageloads! no need to fuck them up youselves!	[12:59]
punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397829 << goes well with http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-03/from-coal-to-coding-appalachian-miners-getting-a-fresh-start	[12:59]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 15:40:01; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << work in moar webdev, aha	[12:59]
assbot	Appalachian Miners Are Learning to Code - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1QjQ3oa )	[12:59]
BingoBoingo	It's a mindset	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo http://archive.is/KU3op << nothing there.	[13:00]
assbot	about.me \| your personal homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1QjQ6QG )	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	why the fuck would i want to send people to a landing page "aboput me" where someone else advertises other fucking idiots.	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	what the everloving fuck.	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo that seems like a reference to something in trilema.	[13:00]
BingoBoingo	There would be something there if the javascript was allowed 3 virgin afghan goats and a solstice with which to load	[13:01]
BingoBoingo	Ah	[13:01]
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mircea_popescu	!up Peter00	[13:04]
-assbot-	You voiced Peter00 for 30 minutes.	[13:05]
*	assbot gives voice to Peter00	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	"After more than 20 years as an electronics engineer, Pete Edwards reached the low six-figure pay level. Now, as he looks for a job following a layoff, he finds that salary success a burden."	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	bwahahaha.	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	this whole "overqualified" thing is a very peculiar usg instrument of lizardlet punishment.	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	kinda like the soviet equivalent, "oh, so you got kicked out of your party commission thing ? no, you can't have a job. because fuck you, that's why"	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	god forbid everyone in wash dc goes "fuck you, fix the office policies or else ima be a carpenter"	[13:06]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397707 << curious if anyone knows how this looked back when the us was an ascending rather than a falling star. say 1880, or 1950.	[13:07]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 08:40:04; punkman: http://assets.bwbx.io/images/ioXhw1XZQPAo/v1/-1x-1.png	[13:07]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397725 << i don't get it, what is wrong with this ?	[13:08]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 12:52:40; BingoBoingo: "The decision comes as the NCAA continues to investigate Katina Powell’s claims that she and other escorts were paid thousands of dollars and given game tickets by former basketball staffer Andre McGee in exchange for dancing for and having sex with U of L players and recruits from 2010-14. The NCAA could still levy further sanctions on U of L in addition to the self-imposed penalty, but	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	if i were him i'd fucking advertise it.	[13:08]
mircea_popescu	"come play for our team, free hookers buffet at lunch"	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	it is mostly a black kids' thing, neh ?	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	how the fuck are you to compete with rappers.	[13:09]
BingoBoingo	What's wrong is the preemptive punishment	[13:09]
mircea_popescu	"thousands of dollars" ? earlier "electrical engineer" derp apparently made "low six figures", ie, 1/100 of what a house costs.	[13:09]
BingoBoingo	Team just up and punishes itself.	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	what the fuck, whore budget for us tv sports team should be in the hundred mil a year sorta thing.	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	what is wrong with these people ?	[13:10]
BingoBoingo	Everything is wrong with them	[13:10]
mircea_popescu	in vaguely related lulz : romanian women are sane ; as a result they're all over europe fucking the shit out of everything that moves ; as a result butthurt euroheads don't want to extend schengen zone to romania unless it "controils the problem" ;	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	as a result romania decides to legalize prostitution.	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	"why the fuck send the whores there so you make most of the money and still bitch about it ? instead come here, pay 10x as much and we keep it all"	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	idiot is as idiot does.	[13:12]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397806 << it sounds like witchcraft/divination to me; I burned my yarrow stalks and i ching books over this	[13:14]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 15:33:16; asciilifeform: i never looked into what his entropy source is. if it's a prng, straight to hell.	[13:14]
danielpbarron	and on the topic of ipad/phone games. Recently I bought the 'Catan' app after my brother showed me this board game. It's notbad.jpg	[13:14]
danielpbarron	turn based, so latency isn't an issue	[13:16]
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mircea_popescu	in other news, banana and peach smoothie kicks ass.	[13:21]
mircea_popescu	settlers of catan is that danielpbarron ?	[13:21]
danielpbarron	yes	[13:22]
danielpbarron	i squeaked out a victory against 2 people and a bot last night; came down to dueling knight cards, and I had more :D	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	cool	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	i played a game of poker with some local whores last night, busted my million within an hour.	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	in 40k rebuys!	[13:23]
danielpbarron	..	[13:23]
danielpbarron	what is the unit of account here? argentine funny money?	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	ah the funniest thing : they wouldn't play poker. they wanted to play IPAD APP POKER!	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	so we all sat there with tables playing "poker" for a while.	[13:24]
mircea_popescu	so negotiable value of ~0, but i guess fun.	[13:24]
danielpbarron	it probably suffers from the same problem as catan : bad rng	[13:25]
danielpbarron	the catan app at least has a "stack" dice mode where you can get even distribution if not actual randomness	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	well it suffers from the problem of bored waitress (shop girl / whore / whatever), they get into these fixations vaguely reminescent of "la pie a une manie : elle volle tout ce qui brille"	[13:25]
mircea_popescu	anyway, they all had billions in ipad poker money and got some sort of bonus or whatever for inviting new players.	[13:26]
mircea_popescu	"agreed. i like allan as a friend. to meet him you would probably like him too. he isnt nuts in general like many are. i have sat in on a few court dates that cant be brought up on here. allan and his family got shafted. that put al in a hard spot and drove his theories to what we have now. there was no reason for his kids to be taken. if there was i would gladly say so. in a way the courts created allan the vexatious.	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	he even tried the lawyer route for the sake of the children but the families could not afford it for long."	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	OF FUCKING COURSE the courts created the vexatious. what else created it, basil plants ?	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	but somehow it is ok to say "the presence of whores promotes disease", but conventionally not ok to say "the presence of courts promotes vexation".	[13:28]
mircea_popescu	sorta like in the early colonies it was ok to say "tomatoes are poisonous" and nobody was supposed to notice that "Eating off lead plates because you wanna be as cool as the europeans eating off silver but are poor and stupid is still a bad plan".	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	"i can only say so much for a few reasons. first allan is my friend. we dont agree on many points but this does not mean i care to make any assumptions about his beliefs on law and governance or his personal life. second there is a publication ban on things which i hold first hand knowledge of. i belive those cases were sealed as a cover up of what actually went on. there is nothing anyone will write here that will cha	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	nge that. i was actually there. i will say i have seen no judge, crown, or family services member with the best interest of the children in mind (in this case). and that is a hard fact.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	and i barely see the point of this discussion as we are not allowed by operation of law to discuss many relevant points to the story. i think you could discuss much without including any name. but it does not show the why of allan filing and trying the way he does. if i was him i would have no faith in the courts at all.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	i can only speak here to clarify certain misgivings about my friend. or i will violate the publication ban as it all links together."	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	and yet the derp still actually upholds the nonsense.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	dude... fuck delusional "courts bans". no court has the power to prevent public communication OF ANYTHING.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	and in any manner.	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << wasn't it just last year the vc circus was special pleading up and down the ying-yang that there's a horrible unmeetable demand ?	[13:33]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:43:34; pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.	[13:33]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397768 << oh it was in the logs already.	[13:34]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:52:23; BingoBoingo: Cloud gaming is how they suppose they will feed iPads 3D graphics	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	aite, BingoBoingo has it lol.	[13:34]
BingoBoingo	yeah	[13:34]
deedbot-	[Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] “Wouldn’t it be great if it did?” - http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/06/6907/	[13:34]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397779 << yes, up until mp said fu, EVERYONE said moore's law is a thing.	[13:35]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:58:34; pete_d_out: speaking of power consumption and moore's law, i hadn't realised that intel had claimed that the ~pentium 4~ would reach 10 ghz, nor that they actually manufactured the p4 at 3.8 ghz... in 2008. the only reason higher power outputs weren't produced en masse was that, apparently, the chips were already consuming 130w at 3.8 ghz and power consumption scaled linearly from there.	[13:35]
*	assbot removes voice from Peter00	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	after mp said fu, EVERYONE said moore's law is no more.	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	this is all coincidence and has exactly nothing to do with mp, of course.	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	then again, history is written by the coincidentors.	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	o look at that, bb's story still on slashdot first page.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	penultimate item. how long was it now lessee	[13:37]
mircea_popescu	19ish to 14ish let's say, about 19 hours. the net value of being a majorily contested news item on slashdot first page is ~3500 unique visitors, ~4500 pages read for an average of 1.28 (or in practice, using the 1% rule, ~3 people read the news item and left, ~300 people read 3-4 pages each and may be back).	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	you can buy the same results from google for ~ 1-300 bucks, and seeing how slashdot has 15 items per first page and apparently a new set daily, the upper bound of its productive value would then be somewhere between 45000 and say 100k per month.	[13:40]
mircea_popescu	of course you can get the exact same also free, but then again that requires "skill".	[13:41]
BingoBoingo	So It's about 25% of what it was in early 2013 and exactly what it was in late 2013	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform "- He says current block ciphers suck. Why? It doesn't really become clear from the discussion, which seems to be between two people who have heard a little bit about cryptography, and are trying to outdo each other in what little knowledge they have."	[13:44]
mircea_popescu	see alf ? you don't know things!	[13:45]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397943 << house costs 10M ?!	[13:46]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:09:49; mircea_popescu: "thousands of dollars" ? earlier "electrical engineer" derp apparently made "low six figures", ie, 1/100 of what a house costs.	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	from same person, five minutes later, "Wait. 'Uses a 64 kbyte key' - is he mad? Does he realize the trouble he will have to go through when he has to transport over a network, or do a key agreement on, keys of that size?"	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	movingkeys over the wire!	[13:46]
mircea_popescu	what little knowledge we have!	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	this is better than the circus.	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if the 100k is a salary, 100 years of that buys you a house where your job is. you denying this ?	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	10m pre-tax, pre interest. worth diddly.	[13:47]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397955 << thread was about gpu. do you understand what gpu is and is for ?	[13:47]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:16:03; danielpbarron: turn based, so latency isn't an issue	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	and now my dear friends, ima be off to send keys over wires. bbl.	[13:48]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397983 << actually in anglo world it is routine for a prisoner to be held incommunicado. handy publication ban of whatever you like.	[13:49]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:30:26; mircea_popescu: dude... fuck delusional "courts bans". no court has the power to prevent public communication OF ANYTHING.	[13:49]
mod6	mornin'	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	and it is routine for rapists to kill their victims, in same anglo world. what of it ?	[13:50]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397985 << there is an eternal unmet demand of folks who will do $work for ~$free. hence indians imported, etc.	[13:50]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:33:13; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << wasn't it just last year the vc circus was special pleading up and down the ying-yang that there's a horrible unmeetable demand ?	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	heya mod6	[13:50]
mod6	:]	[13:50]
asciilifeform	there is NEVER any shortage of folks who will do $work for $maxint. they will fly down from mars if you pay enough.	[13:50]
mircea_popescu	I think I know what (s)he is talking about - it's similar to this one https://vimeo.com/7125141 [vimeo.com] , and involves MP breaking down in the face of confrontation. Not necessarily crying per se, but he acts like a kid who has been told he can't go out and play until he eats his broccoli. Might even be the same event, but this video was put out by MP and is edited to make MP look good, at least in his own eyes. <<	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	i dun understand all this coloring.	[13:51]
assbot	Mircea Popescu - Sesiune training Birda, Timis on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1nPgJpL )	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	what exactly is "breakinjg down" about me telling some random farmer at political rally why he can't have living wage ?	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	there's all this constant "oh i know why this person that's better than me did what he did, let me tell you!" bullshit.	[13:51]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397992 << mno, it was quite readily dead in '07 and iirc apparent to most literate folk	[13:51]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:35:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397779 << yes, up until mp said fu, EVERYONE said moore's law is a thing.	[13:51]
mircea_popescu	apparently i'm "self exiled to argentina" because i'm fucking local now. apparently my slaves are "whores" because hey, "it's unfair" or whatever.	[13:52]
asciilifeform	what there ~was~ is some vague 'hope of comeback' from magical wunderwaffen fabrication tech	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	wtf is wrong with people already.	[13:52]
asciilifeform	which - mega-unsurprise - never materialized	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform link me please.	[13:52]
mircea_popescu	i wish to see place where person in position of management/responsibility makes decision and publicly backs it by plain statement that moore law's a delusion.	[13:52]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398004 << this is glorious, can we get the knowing-things fella in here somehow ?	[13:53]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:45:04; mircea_popescu: see alf ? you don't know things!	[13:53]
asciilifeform	we could really use one	[13:53]
mircea_popescu	well... i suppose if you find prior art re moore's law ima buy slashdot and redirect it to logs.	[13:53]
BingoBoingo	It's amazing the people still around https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-February/012359.html	[13:54]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[13:54]
assbot	[bitcoin-dev] BIP proposal: Increase block size limit to 2 megabytes ... ( http://bit.ly/1ofAg33 )	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	ahaha this is best one yet.	[13:54]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i saw the 'multicore' fad as more or less equivalent to a public proclamation of 'moore's law is dead'	[13:54]
asciilifeform	but perhaps this is not quite what mircea_popescu had in mind	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	derp #1 : "What is wrong with existing block ciphers like AES? AES has been in widespread use for over a decade and to the best of my knowledge, there is still no practical attack on it (unless someone has built a working quantum computer and not told anyone about it). Its totally free of patents and IP issues. Its been implemented in a huge variety of hardware and software (including the Intel CPU that I am using to m	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	ake this postining). Even the NSA trusts AES enough to certify it for use protecting top secret information."	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	derp #2 : Nothing. The guy is just a fool who believes that bigger block size is better. He's a very obvious sufferer of the Dunning Kruger effect [wikipedia.org]	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	FANCY THAT!	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	dude wasn't slashdot supposed to be made out of informed people and whatnot ?	[13:55]
asciilifeform	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323 << obligatory re: 'aes is certified'	[13:55]
assbot	Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name. ... ( http://bit.ly/1gZ2mwl )	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform finding threads for events after the event is a fun sort of historical game. nevertheless, the events are the events.	[13:56]
asciilifeform	now what i don't grasp is how the bitcoin block size thing wormed its way into that thread	[13:56]
asciilifeform	from where?	[13:56]
asciilifeform	what, word 'block' does not even exist for these folk outside of bitcoin terminology ?	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	they decided that the true reason (tm) must be workfunction-something.	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	but yeah, prolly free association.	[13:57]
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BingoBoingo	apparently i'm "self exiled to argentina" because i'm fucking local now. << I did that troll	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	ah!	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	o wow, this is like 4chan now ?	[13:57]
BingoBoingo	Kinda	[13:58]
BingoBoingo	With less porn	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	sadly.	[13:58]
mircea_popescu	i remember the days, back when the mothers of the current crop of internet kids were still sucking cock on public grounds, that slashdot was really cool.	[13:58]
asciilifeform	not so much 'cool' as 'one of the only few things that there were'	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	then again i suppose there's some middle aged lawyers somewhere that remember the days facebook was really cool.	[13:59]
BingoBoingo	Well, the taco commander had to get paid	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this is what cool means.	[13:59]
asciilifeform	the oasis may be crowded and full of shit but is still oasis	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	you have to understand cool is a political concept, much like "declase" in french salon world of 1800.	[14:00]
mircea_popescu	"if you make the list of places, and cross out the places where you woujldn't want to be seen, the result is the list of cool places"	[14:00]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398011 << closer to 10. ~unless~ you use my magic formula and compute using ~the money you have left over to actually pay for the thing~	[14:03]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:47:26; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the 100k is a salary, 100 years of that buys you a house where your job is. you denying this ?	[14:03]
asciilifeform	in which case you get the ridiculous american number of 30. which assumes an ideal spherical horse of an empire where the chump actually keeps getting that 100k for 30 years, and it isn't eaten away at by spiraling costs of fuel, food, medical, etc.	[14:04]
asciilifeform	(and, as per earlier thread, unemployment)	[14:04]
asciilifeform	which turns into a mathematically plausible but physically-ludicrous discussion akin to 'candle burning for 100 years will move a ferrari 1km forward'	[14:07]
asciilifeform	find me this candle.	[14:07]
asciilifeform	and the eternal, unrusting ferrari on the 100 year track, slowly creeping.	[14:07]
BingoBoingo	AHA, Like motorcarriage powered by radiothermal generator	[14:07]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: you can get a 1-3kW rtg	[14:08]
asciilifeform	for phreeeeee!	[14:08]
*	Xuthus (~x@unaffiliated/xuthus) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:08]
BingoBoingo	But weighs car down how much?	[14:08]
asciilifeform	catch is, you will have to smuggle it out of kamchatka by rowboat	[14:08]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: a tonne or two	[14:08]
asciilifeform	this output would correspond to ~ 1-3 horses.	[14:09]
asciilifeform	which puts you right where you probably wanted to be.	[14:09]
asciilifeform	bonus, the carriage never gets cold...	[14:10]
BingoBoingo	So six ton golf car roughly after fending off volcanoes and bears with oars from boat	[14:10]
BingoBoingo	*golf cart	[14:10]
asciilifeform	to briefly return to the cipher thread,	[14:12]
asciilifeform	the major boojum re: asking for (as i asked for) a cipher that has an actual mathematical proof of security, is that there is precisely one such known,	[14:12]
asciilifeform	otp.	[14:12]
asciilifeform	afaik no effort to produce another has ever yielded anything.	[14:12]
asciilifeform	(if it had, it is a very well-kept secret, better kept than, e.g., nuke etc)	[14:13]
asciilifeform	(the otp proof is kindergarten-level - the ciphertext tells you nothing at all - as in 0 bits - about the key or the plaintext)	[14:14]
asciilifeform	given as it literally equals key xor plaintext.	[14:14]
asciilifeform	if i tell you that X xor Y == 1, you cannot infer X and Y, only that one is 1 and other is 0	[14:15]
asciilifeform	qed.	[14:15]
asciilifeform	in any ciphersystem ~other~ than otp, the ciphertext carries, theoretically, ~some~ information re: the key.	[14:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00056211 = 2.2203 BTC [+] {2}	[14:17]
asciilifeform	now one could try to prove that extracting this information usefully is computationally intractable. but this is never been publicly done.	[14:18]
asciilifeform	there are charlatans who will happily help you self-delude that it has been done, however.	[14:18]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: dunno if this was in logs. but why is the "crypto comoonity" opposed to RSA?	[14:18]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: guess why.	[14:19]
thestringpuller	every netsec guy at my coal mine is like "RSA is bad don't use it mmmkay. ECC please"	[14:19]
thestringpuller	i figure it's disinformation. but who am I to argue with "crypto experts!!!11" and such	[14:19]
asciilifeform	partly http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-01-2016#1382752	[14:21]
assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 15:35:48; asciilifeform: problem is that one doesn't get to 'make a name' in academe as 'cryptographer' by pushing rsa.	[14:21]
asciilifeform	partly that ecc systems are poorly understood and trivial to trapdoor and kleptographically diddle, very usg-friendly	[14:22]
asciilifeform	(find me ~one~ 'netsec' tard who can explain how the curves are chosen)	[14:23]
thestringpuller	an exercise for the reader is always a good exercise. I'll see what 'netsec' tards at work say to that question.	[14:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> otp. << if the key is 64kb, technically otp would work fine for message up to 64kb.	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	which... i dun recall the last time i used a message longer	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	POINT BEING that in order to justify his oats, horse better pull cart more than donkey.	[14:29]
mircea_popescu	so - if "cryptologists" can not produce what i ask of them - their wives, to the brothel, they themselves to the mines, for fraud.	[14:30]
mircea_popescu	i don't need "experts" and "universities" to tell me 1800 state of the art.	[14:30]
asciilifeform	otp is ww1 state of the art.	[14:31]
asciilifeform	srsly	[14:31]
mircea_popescu	iirc it was known afore.	[14:31]
asciilifeform	it was not.	[14:31]
asciilifeform	if mircea_popescu knows differently, and can show it, historians would like to know	[14:31]
asciilifeform	'peak crypto!1111' was otp, vernam, ww1.	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	;;google Frank Miller 1882	[14:32]
gribble	Frank Miller (cryptography) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; One-time pad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Frank Miller: Inventor of the One-Time Pad [pdf] - Columbia University:	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	now what ?	[14:32]
gernika	mod6: my 99996 node is wedging every 1k blocks or so. I would be happy to apply any logging or debugging patches that might be out there to help track down the problem.	[14:32]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: neato! turns out otp has its very own lilienfeld	[14:32]
mircea_popescu	:)	[14:32]
asciilifeform	(for n00bz, lilienfeld invented transistor in the '20s)	[14:32]
asciilifeform	^ but never made one	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	well... guy made it alright.	[14:33]
mircea_popescu	was telegraphy application	[14:33]
asciilifeform	(but described in workable detail how to make, and not, e.g., davinci style)	[14:33]
asciilifeform	'Although in theory Miller can claim priority, reality is more complex. As will be explained below, it is quite unlikely that either he or anyone else ever used his system for real messages; in fact, it is unclear if anyone other than he and his friends and family ever knew of its existence. That said, there are some possible links to Mauborgne. It thus remains unclear who should be credited with effectively inventing the one-	[14:34]
asciilifeform	time pad.'	[14:34]
asciilifeform	lulzy, very very lilienfeld.	[14:34]
gernika	or perhaps this is one of those "hands of the drowning" situations. bleh. C++ here I come.	[14:34]
asciilifeform	gernika: wedging ~how~ ?	[14:34]
asciilifeform	what is in the logs ?	[14:34]
asciilifeform	what is the behaviour ? does it respond to rpc ?	[14:34]
asciilifeform	is there network traffic ?	[14:35]
asciilifeform	long before you 'c++', why not try basic naked eye observations.	[14:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398118 << it remains a challenge to get folks to produce things to scratch your itches when you aren't the one paying.	[14:37]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 17:30:00; mircea_popescu: so - if "cryptologists" can not produce what i ask of them - their wives, to the brothel, they themselves to the mines, for fraud.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	"real messages" ? cmon.	[14:37]
asciilifeform	i, for instance, would like a boeing. but it does not surprise me that boeings continue to belong to folks who pay for'em	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there is a difference between making a boeing for pay and making a cipher for pay.	[14:37]
mircea_popescu	i can inspect other boeings that were made, including by the people that trained you.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	show me this previous work in the field.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, cryptographer === magician.	[14:38]
asciilifeform	there is none, because charlatanry.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	i'll believe you do X when i see X.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	so then.	[14:38]
mircea_popescu	boeing is exactly unrelated to this.	[14:38]
gernika	asciilifeform: http://www.exusiae.com/shared/debug.log - I am not sure what a useful summarization of what is in the log would be.	[14:40]
*	anondran (~anondran@unaffiliated/anondran) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[14:40]
asciilifeform	my point was that if you want astronomy, and all you have to work with is astrologers, the only possible thing that could ever work is a) wait 1000 years, be very patient or b) track down promising ones and cut them loose from day job assembling horoscopes	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	neither a nor b.	[14:40]
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asciilifeform	i suppose there is c) shout into the dark	[14:40]
mircea_popescu	explain the requirement, offer fame and a little fortune. that's the only one path.	[14:41]
asciilifeform	l0l fortune	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	there's no way to extrinsically motivate astrologers to become astronomers.	[14:41]
gernika	asciilifeform: Since I've already shutdown the node, I can't answer your other questions at this time. I will once I've started it up again and it re-wedges (i.e. no new accepted blocks for 12+ hours)	[14:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i did not say 'motivate', but enable existing motivated.	[14:41]
mod6	i don't think a billion units is lulzy at all.	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	nope.	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	and stop dreaming about the liv ing wage	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	the world owes you nothing. now go die, in any manner you choose for yourself.	[14:41]
mircea_popescu	no backsies, to keepsies, no "yes buts"	[14:41]
mod6	gernika: be sure to capture logs. we've seen wedges in the past, and they hvae some distinct tell tale signs in the logs.	[14:43]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu laughs at warez aficionados but then wants the things he wants, to fall from the sky for phree	[14:43]
mod6	also, which block was the last accepted? i.e., which block was it grinding on?	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	i don't WANT anything.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	i already have otp.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	someone WANTS to be a cryptographer, THAT SOMEONE better be a cryptographer.	[14:44]
asciilifeform	iirc mircea_popescu wanted a non-otp that demonstrably doesn't suck	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	otherwise, whores and miners are abundant and i couldn't care less.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	no.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	i GRACIOUSLY offered an opportunity	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	let's not confuse things.	[14:44]
asciilifeform	this is advanced dirigible algebra, prolly beyond my peanut brain.	[14:45]
asciilifeform	i'ma let it be	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	whether workable cipher materializes or not does not decide if mp is mp.	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	it DOES decide whether ~anyone~ is a cryptographer or not, however.	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	so that's where that sits.	[14:45]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu did learn a useful fact, if he had not already known it, namely that... there are not yet cryptographers	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	alrighty then!	[14:46]
asciilifeform	on the other hand, 'the spice must flow.' and if i hear nothing, 'g' is coming out with rsa or cramer-shoup in abusive mode.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	any time any kid grows some balls, ars is longa, well lubed and awaits.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	as we agreed, cramer-shoup with shared key is acceptable symmetric cipher.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	and i'd rather that than rsa, myself.	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	if nothing else, the tiny ammt of publicity we've been doing around it pisses people off. so...	[14:48]
asciilifeform	aha!	[14:49]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: You gotta remember Bitcoin runs on drama.	[14:50]
adlai	!s drama	[14:50]
assbot	631 results for 'drama' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=drama	[14:50]
BingoBoingo	tears > Watts	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	tearwatts!	[14:51]
adlai	if Watts were alive today, he'd prolly amend "the planet peoples" to "the planet Bitcoins"	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	so for everyone watching : s.nsa will be doing double month report next month ; s.mpoe will be filing later today.	[14:52]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398158 << this log does not, unfortunately, shed any light.	[14:52]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 17:40:04; gernika: asciilifeform: http://www.exusiae.com/shared/debug.log - I am not sure what a useful summarization of what is in the log would be.	[14:52]
asciilifeform	(no signs of 'blackhole', and node died peacefully)	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	gernika may be describing the blackhole thing ?	[14:53]
asciilifeform	not as per his log.	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	ah k	[14:53]
asciilifeform	also in the future, folks plz post last 1M max	[14:53]
asciilifeform	rather than 100M turd	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	10k really would do in most cases	[14:55]
asciilifeform	1k.	[14:55]
asciilifeform	generally, we are interested in the moment of truth.	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	mod6> i don't think a billion units is lulzy at all. << what is this re ?	[14:56]
ben_vulpes	cramer shoup + shared key does not reduce to...otp?	[14:57]
*	ben_vulpes not even qualified to ask questions about this probably	[14:57]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: otp is a particular very specific thing	[14:57]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes nope	[14:57]
asciilifeform	where 1 key bit is used, precisely once, to encipher 1 bit of plaintext into 1 bit of ciphertext.	[14:58]
asciilifeform	(typically via xor operation)	[14:58]
ben_vulpes	and the need to share the key does not impose the same operational considerations as otp?	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	in the EP? general scheme of true cryptography, otp occupies a peculiar spot, equivalent to rsa's use of multiplication, where otp uses "multiplication modulo 1" or "multiplication in the binary group" for a º function	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes all symmetric ciphers share the key.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	that's why they're symmetric.	[14:59]
*	punkman1 is now known as punkman	[15:00]
ben_vulpes	what does c-s buy one over the otp in that case?	[15:00]
mod6	mircea_popescu: the reward for the Block Cipher contest	[15:00]
*	assbot gives voice to punkman	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	mod6 ah. well... negotiable insturment, you know. everyone values it as he values it. there's not exactly a dearth of offerings - notably the reward to prove qmail is buggy was 500. knuth's rewards are a dollar and change., etc	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes otp key as long as message.	[15:01]
BingoBoingo	Seriously now, there's people paid to believe warez doesn't lead to innovation.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397800 << aha.	[15:03]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 15:31:33; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397691 << fpga fabric. as i described maybe 1,001 times.	[15:03]
ben_vulpes	hm	[15:03]
punkman	is there a decent otp implementation?	[15:03]
BingoBoingo	otp implementation is as good as your random	[15:03]
BingoBoingo	And your one-timedness	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	punkman well one bash line would do it.	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	but yes, otp on top of prng is asking for trouble.	[15:04]
BingoBoingo	Once you have pad, can be done by hand	[15:05]
punkman	gotta have something to remember how much of the otp has been used	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	the whole power of the scheme comes from "everything's equally likely". yet if everything's not equally likely...	[15:05]
BingoBoingo	gotta have something to remember how much of the otp has been used << burn the used pages of your cipherbook	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	for instance, consider the naive situation where you take 1mb worth of debug.log, and xor it against 1mb of perfect noise.	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	i will then proceed to count the As and the Ws and break your thing to a large degree.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	esp since i know plenty of strings likely to appear in the plaintext.	[15:06]
punkman	mircea_popescu: wut	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	do the experiment for yourself, it's really a great entry thing into cryptanalysis.	[15:06]
mircea_popescu	to be studied in pairs, one kid makes the scheme, the other kid breaks the scheme, then alternate positions.	[15:07]
punkman	does perfect noise random noise?	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	perfect noise = all items have exact same probability to appear.	[15:07]
mircea_popescu	you're doing (items have varying, known probabilities to appear) xor (all items have same probability to appear).	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	the necessary result is (different items have same varying, known probabilities to appear as in the plaintext)	[15:08]
mircea_popescu	this is fundamental instruction in the importance of.... large block sizes.	[15:08]
BingoBoingo	The letter 'e' problem	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	was also a penguin linked here recently, same idea.	[15:09]
mircea_popescu	and yes as noted by alf the "pill" for this fundamental problem is to make sure that message length stays well under statistical sample.	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless...	[15:10]
BingoBoingo	was also a penguin linked here recently, same idea. << Problem of using block cipher as code book	[15:10]
BingoBoingo	https://blog.filippo.io/the-ecb-penguin/	[15:11]
assbot	The ECB Penguin ... ( http://bit.ly/1RdlYvh )	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	the correct way to apply otp to something like human readable text is to weigh it.	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	this is an operation very close to compression, a sort of crypto-lzw.	[15:11]
BingoBoingo	https://blog.filippo.io/content/images/2015/11/POP-xsmall.png << Now with moar art	[15:12]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Rdm6Ld )	[15:12]
punkman	perfect noise = all items have exact same probability to appear. << do 0 and 1s not have same probability to appear in random bitstring?	[15:18]
mircea_popescu	punkman "items" is used there deliberately, to scale with the size of the block you use.	[15:19]
punkman	well say items are bits	[15:20]
mircea_popescu	let's work with a very simple example. suppose we use two bits, and suppose the plaintext is as follows : 00 appears 1 case out of 8 ; 01 appears 2 cases out of 8 ; 10 appears 4 cases out of 8 and 11 appears one case out of 8. 1+1+2+4=8.	[15:21]
mircea_popescu	now, those 4 cases out of 8 of "10" have equal chances to meet 00, 01, 10, and 11. as a result you will see :	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	10 in 1 case out of 16 ; etc.	[15:22]
mircea_popescu	this is actually usable to describe a lot of the plain text, and exponentially more so when i know that debug.log tends to contain a lot of "connection" strings.	[15:22]
punkman	this sounds like you want to do frequency analysis on otp, but perhaps I'm just thick	[15:26]
mircea_popescu	right.	[15:27]
mircea_popescu	to be plainer : otp works better with biased pad of unknown bias than with unbiased pad of known lack of bias.	[15:28]
punkman	biased otp???	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	understand : if you collect say 1024 random bits, the chances of seeing 512 1s and 512 0s are < 1%	[15:31]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398069 << my account was created when you needed a college email address to register, and I can tell you it was never cool. I'm pretty sure I got more use out of livejournal even	[15:32]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 16:59:13; mircea_popescu: then again i suppose there's some middle aged lawyers somewhere that remember the days facebook was really cool.	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	a ok then.	[15:32]
danielpbarron	and yes asciilifeform i know what gpu is, just saying there are some fun games for touch devices	[15:33]
fluffypony	I'm basically addicted to Asphalt 8	[15:34]
danielpbarron	if it works as a board game it probably works on a touch screen, is probably a good general rule	[15:35]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394833 << obligatory otp megathread	[15:45]
assbot	Logged on 03-02-2016 01:53:21; asciilifeform: actually for many years i have thought about the ideal electric otp.	[15:45]
asciilifeform	for education of n00bz, i will briefly elaborate here.	[15:45]
punkman	isn't compressing your otp akin to whitening?	[15:45]
asciilifeform	punkman: you can't compress random crud	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	punkman compressing the plaintext, not the otp.	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	that;'s the idea there, exactly.	[15:46]
asciilifeform	there are several possible ways to die when otp	[15:46]
punkman	you can't do frequency analysis on otp	[15:46]
asciilifeform	one is to ~ever, for any reason~ reuse any portion of the pad.	[15:46]
asciilifeform	(see, e.g., famously the 'venona' case)	[15:46]
asciilifeform	another is to have anything other than a true physical rng generating the pad.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform technically speaking, the s-box cipher crapolade is an ellaborate exercise in reusingselect parts of otp	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	since they all use xor.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	this alone should show they're deeply inadequate, but who knows fundamentals anymore.	[15:47]
asciilifeform	yet another is to have the pad surreptitiously copied by the enemy	[15:47]
asciilifeform	or captured, and then funkspieled	[15:47]
asciilifeform	(the latter is a common concern in all crypto)	[15:47]
asciilifeform	ergo the linked thread, where i posit that an ideal otp is actually a physical object which brings the bits somehow into existence one at a time	[15:49]
asciilifeform	(but, the hard part, same one on both ends	[15:49]
asciilifeform	)	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	there is another way to die using otp, and that way is to use a lengthy biased message the enemy knows most of.	[15:49]
asciilifeform	not so.	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	if i know you will be encrypting one of shakespeare's plays, otp won't save you.	[15:49]
asciilifeform	an actual otp conveys no information whatsoever via the ciphertext.	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	i'll find out which one, probabilistically.	[15:50]
asciilifeform	no.	[15:50]
asciilifeform	because they are all equally probable.	[15:50]
punkman	you would find infinite texts that make sense	[15:50]
asciilifeform	think about it. the ciphertext conveys LITERALLY NO information without the key.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	they aren't all equally probable if i can rely on your otp being random.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	because they are long, and structured.	[15:51]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: think about it, with otp, there is no reason for you to actually intercept the ciphertext	[15:51]
asciilifeform	you can guess the message just as easily with telepathy, at home.	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	are you paying me 10 btc if we do this experiment and i do guess it, "with telepathy, at home" ?	[15:52]
asciilifeform	the ciphertext literally tells you nothing useful, other than an upper bound for the length	[15:52]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: specify the experiment ?	[15:52]
asciilifeform	also try randi first, he pays 1M usd	[15:52]
*	adlie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[15:52]
asciilifeform	telepaths - straight to j. randi, plox	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	you pick one of two lengthy, structured plaintexts i provide, you encrypt them with a biasless, purely random rng, and i decide which of the two you picked.	[15:53]
punkman	should add some btc to challenge :)	[15:53]
asciilifeform	i see where mircea_popescu is going	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	punkman why, he didn't feel obliged to add any btc to the other one, just bitch about the insufficiency of the sum.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform funny how money clears the mind, even if it's too little to mention.	[15:54]
asciilifeform	specifying wtf you're doing, clears the mind	[15:54]
punkman	so you'd be able to pick the right message more than 50% of the time?	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	if you're making 1 mb of 01111110 and 1mb of 10000001 and then otp them against a random pad	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	you'll fucking see which one is encrypted in five minutes.	[15:55]
asciilifeform	actually this contradicts the xor lemma.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	yeah i misstared it.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	the examples given are not structured and readily reduce to "1" and "0", so no, it wouldn't work here.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless!	[15:57]
asciilifeform	in the original challenge it does also.	[15:57]
asciilifeform	let's put it this way,	[15:58]
asciilifeform	xoring the bits does not preserve their statistical distribution.	[15:58]
asciilifeform	(when xoring against properly random string)	[15:58]
asciilifeform	just as in the old thread where we demonstrate that trng XOR hitler's rng is still trng.	[15:59]
asciilifeform	so long as the latter has no feedback from the former	[15:59]
asciilifeform	(i.e. they are independent streams)	[15:59]
asciilifeform	still want to play ?	[15:59]
*	adlie (~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:03]
mircea_popescu	let me put it this way : stuff like CRC, or ECC etc, exists fundamentally out of "we guarantee you can recover the plaintext after it has been otp'd with a pad which is AT LEAST this biased"	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	how biased the otp needs to be is part of the crc spec, for instance "every 8th bit may be a 1" etc.	[16:04]
asciilifeform	this is basic theory per shannon.	[16:05]
asciilifeform	those 'bits' are still 'in there.'	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	but in general, if you do away with the requirement to recover ALL of the plaintext,	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	and if the plaintext is long enough, this is equivalent to a requirement of minimal bias in the otp pad.	[16:05]
asciilifeform	my contention is that in your case 'recover' == guess.	[16:05]
asciilifeform	if you would like to specify this game in a way that doesn't reduce to gambling on coin flips, i will play.	[16:05]
asciilifeform	for 10 b. even.	[16:05]
thestringpuller	;;later tell ben_vulpes http://dpaste.com/0MGQE6P.txt	[16:07]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:07]
*	felipelalli_mobi (~felipelal@187.74.77.175) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[16:08]
asciilifeform	i will ~happily~ play with mircea_popescu if he insists on betting against arithmetic...	[16:08]
asciilifeform	(perhaps he is trying to teach us something ?)	[16:08]
mircea_popescu	you don't see the crc discussion sufficient for our purposes ?	[16:08]
asciilifeform	nope. because i read shannon.	[16:08]
asciilifeform	crc is built to survive a small fixed percentage (typically 1 in 9) of flipped bits.	[16:09]
asciilifeform	not ALL.	[16:09]
asciilifeform	but why beat the horse? i'm willing to play !	[16:09]
asciilifeform	who wants to referee ? jurov ? kakobrekla ?	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	well, alrighty. can't turn down free moneyz.	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	why does there have to be a referee ?	[16:10]
punkman	mp makes 2 plaintexts, ascii generates 1000 otps, for each otp: picks one of the 2 plaintexts and xors with otp. mp must guess guess correctly 501?, 600? more?	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	one.	[16:11]
asciilifeform	wai wut	[16:11]
mircea_popescu	it really needn't be done over more than one try lol. srsly ? 1k ?	[16:12]
asciilifeform	i'm not playing flippsies	[16:12]
asciilifeform	gotta be a statistically standing result.	[16:12]
mircea_popescu	so basically we'll never know ?	[16:12]
asciilifeform	as in, he gets, say, 700 out of 1000	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	mk, ima bbl see if i can hack together something that satisfies the audience theoretically.	[16:13]
asciilifeform	(and it goes without saying that the plaintexts must be same length)	[16:13]
thestringpuller	and this is what #b-a is the most amazing channel on freenode	[16:13]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[16:13]
punkman	asciilifeform: why, would padding be a problem?	[16:13]
asciilifeform	punkman: not problem, but must specify this, otherwise somebody wins/loses on an idiot technicality that teachs nothing	[16:14]
asciilifeform	same length bitstrings.	[16:14]
asciilifeform	otherwise can immediately decode 'which one' based on length.	[16:14]
punkman	well obvs	[16:14]
asciilifeform	anyway i will play if experiment is specified such that mircea_popescu has 100:1 or less odds of winning based on pure guessing ('telepathy')	[16:15]
punkman	but even if you pad with all 0s, works	[16:15]
asciilifeform	sure.	[16:15]
thestringpuller	place your bitbets!	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform notice that this isn't "wins/loses". you're just giving 10 btc away, on the if.	[16:15]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: what's the if	[16:15]
mircea_popescu	that i guess your message. which i suppose necessarily carries the caveat that "must not be by chance",	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	which is why ima try and show it theoretically.	[16:16]
asciilifeform	the way i read it, the 'if' is whether mircea_popescu can demonstrate convincingly higher than chance guessatronics.	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[16:16]
asciilifeform	aha so same rules as randi.	[16:16]
punkman	if you want to do 1, must have 1000 plaintexts instead	[16:17]
asciilifeform	no good.	[16:17]
asciilifeform	otp doesn't get reused.	[16:17]
punkman	why not	[16:17]
asciilifeform	ever.	[16:17]
asciilifeform	no two xors with one motherfucking bit.	[16:17]
asciilifeform	this is not how otp is used.	[16:17]
punkman	you pick one of 1000 plaintexts, generate one otp	[16:17]
asciilifeform	one otp bit, one xor.	[16:17]
asciilifeform	this is kindergarten material.	[16:18]
punkman	well not in kindergarten, but I did play this game on paper once	[16:20]
asciilifeform	if there is one otp key, and it gets used two or more times, with mircea_popescu controlling the input and knowing anything whatsoever about the output, he learns the key trivially.	[16:21]
mircea_popescu	well no not that.	[16:21]
asciilifeform	and anyway that was not the proposed game (because it would not be the least bit interesting)	[16:21]
punkman	I meant instead of doing 100 iterations of guess between 2 plaintexts, one iteration of guessing between 100 plaintexts	[16:23]
asciilifeform	that he gives me, and i xor over, and give back ?	[16:23]
punkman	yeah	[16:23]
asciilifeform	works	[16:23]
asciilifeform	if they are all of length L.	[16:23]
asciilifeform	(and L, trivially, is 7 bits or more.)	[16:24]
punkman	mp could choose padding rule if he doesn't want equal length	[16:25]
asciilifeform	but in practice longer, because they must be N ~distinct~ strings	[16:25]
asciilifeform	punkman: this reduces to 'same length'	[16:25]
asciilifeform	and i'm lazy, he will have to pad'em himself.	[16:25]
*	felipelalli_mobi has quit (Quit: Bye)	[16:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform : Let message A consist of individual bytes counting down from FFFFFFFF ; let message B consist of individual bytes counting up from 00000000. Let the enemy xor one of these two against a random, unbiased OTP of the same length and supply the enciphered result. Take that result, and count the instances where byte n is larger than byte n+1. Take that result, and count the instances where byte n is larger t	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	han byte n-1. The larger of the two indicates the message encrypted ; the difference between these counts indicate your confidence (or the rng's bias).	[16:27]
mircea_popescu	how about that.	[16:27]
asciilifeform	so, for this variant of game, algo would be 1) mircea_popescu generates his string set, signs, deedbots; 2) i xor'em, sign, deedbot at first only the signature; 3) i post one of the xor'ed strings 4) he telepathies which one 5) i reveal my hand, which is the tarball in step 2 6) if he wins, i lose 10b, or vice-versa	[16:28]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you can use whatever alchemy you like...	[16:29]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[16:29]
asciilifeform	you are still playing against the xor lemma.	[16:29]
punkman	http://crypto.stackexchange.com/search?q=many+time+pad popular homework question apparently	[16:30]
asciilifeform	(i will happily collect the win in its stead, like that fool wanted to collect nobel for satoshi!11)	[16:30]
assbot	Posts containing 'many time pad' - Cryptography Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pe9gKa )	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	lol wait, collect wut ?	[16:30]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the output bits - the lot of them - is necessarily as entropic as my key.	[16:31]
asciilifeform	think about it.	[16:31]
asciilifeform	work it on paper. the plaintext (payload), in xor operation, merely flips the key bit.	[16:31]
asciilifeform	(or doesn't flip.)	[16:32]
asciilifeform	it cannot create pattern.	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	for the very reason that it can't create pattern,	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	it also can't destroy it!	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	long, deeply biased plaintexts are dangerous for otp.	[16:32]
asciilifeform	does mircea_popescu want a free 10b or not.	[16:32]
mircea_popescu	ok i guess ima have to figure out some way to hm. hey asciilifeform , how about this deal : i pay you 10 btc of my eventual winnings, should they exist, but you make the messages and show the result. i dun have a compiler ready and nfi how you generate the described messages in bash	[16:33]
asciilifeform	see earlier recipe ('variant of game')	[16:34]
mircea_popescu	ok, brb.	[16:34]
asciilifeform	it has to be with mircea_popescu generating the magic strings, because this is how he said he will carry out the telepathy - by selecting specially-crafted biased input.	[16:35]
mircea_popescu	kk.	[16:35]
asciilifeform	(this bias, somehow, against xor lemma, surivives xoring.)	[16:35]
asciilifeform	i will suggest a handy recipe:	[16:35]
asciilifeform	1) mircea_popescu generates 100 files, 1MB (1024^2 byte) in length each. gzips, signs, deedbots.	[16:36]
asciilifeform	2) i xor over each of them with 1MB from a cardano rng.	[16:36]
mircea_popescu	yeh im doing it.	[16:37]
asciilifeform	3) i select one of these, sign, and send to jurov or kakobrekla or somebody, referee	[16:37]
asciilifeform	4) mircea_popescu tells me which of the 100 it was.	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	can just deedbot the result.	[16:37]
punkman	other variant: ascii makes 100 otps, makes 100 plaintexts, X of which are the string "mircea_popescu: long, deeply biased plaintexts are dangerous for otp.", then passes 100 ciphertexts to mp. mp must guess X withing some range.	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	wait, what 100 files. i generate 2 files.	[16:37]
asciilifeform	then we just learn that mircea_popescu can break sha!	[16:37]
mircea_popescu	dude wtf.	[16:37]
asciilifeform	this was punkman's variant	[16:37]
asciilifeform	if mircea_popescu generates two files, we're playing coinflipsies	[16:38]
asciilifeform	and that's no fun at all	[16:38]
mircea_popescu	you can make as many otps as you want, it's still coming out the same way o.O	[16:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu has to demonstrate greater-than-chance telepathics	[16:38]
asciilifeform	if we play with 1 set of alternatives, he has 50% chance of guessing it.	[16:38]
asciilifeform	gotta play with either my original scheme - N sets of 2-pronged - or punkman's - N files.	[16:39]
asciilifeform	demonstrates significance above chance.	[16:39]
punkman	the third variant is also ok I think	[16:39]
asciilifeform	what's the 3rd ?	[16:39]
punkman	mp must guess how many of the 100 ciphertexts are made from the string ""mircea_popescu: long, deeply biased plaintexts are dangerous for otp.""	[16:41]
asciilifeform	vs what	[16:42]
punkman	I guess every other string can be all 0s	[16:43]
punkman	*all the other strings	[16:43]
asciilifeform	'how many' or 'which ones' ?	[16:44]
punkman	you'd choose	[16:44]
asciilifeform	this is then exactly isomorphic to my original.	[16:44]
asciilifeform	incidentally, the main reason i'd like a referee, is so that everybody knows that my random 'pads' were generated independently of mircea_popescu's challenge strings.	[16:50]
asciilifeform	(and that they were, hence, not crafted specifically to bulldoze whatever magical pattern he put in his strings)	[16:52]
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asciilifeform	i invite the curious log reader to play the game mircea_popescu proposed with single bits, with a friend	[16:54]
asciilifeform	that is, with coin flips	[16:54]
asciilifeform	to see how ludicrous the proposition is	[16:54]
asciilifeform	the mircea_popescu side of the game can only be won if 1) rng is biased 2) he knows how	[16:56]
asciilifeform	imagine you find a coin on the street.	[17:00]
asciilifeform	to say that its previous state had any bearing on the face it is showing when you find it,	[17:01]
asciilifeform	suggests that you can magically tell its entire history of flips	[17:01]
asciilifeform	unless you are a telapath, there is nothing useful you can say about a bit which was flipped with probability 0.5.	[17:01]
asciilifeform	*telepath	[17:01]
asciilifeform	this is elementary, and if mircea_popescu comes back and tells us that he had been drinking, i will believe him, and happily forget the whole thing.	[17:02]
*	asciilifeform bbl.	[17:03]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform : here we go	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	total 65500 bytes in each message.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	assay 1 : count 32734 / 32743. expected 1st lower than 2nd. confirmed.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	assay 2 : count 32778 / 32775. expected 1st lower than 2nd. infirmed.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	assay 3: count 32959 / 32964. expected 1st lower than 2nd. confirmed.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	assay 4 : count 32810 / 32814. expected 1st lower than 2nd. confirmed.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	3 out of 4 good enough for you ?	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	im too lazy to really run mb length messages etc.	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	(i used mt_rand, whatever that's worth)	[17:17]
asciilifeform	what am i looking at ?	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	the method described above, one plaintext counts up one counts down.	[17:21]
asciilifeform	all i see is that mircea_popescu won 32 games of coin-toss with himself.	[17:21]
asciilifeform	16, rather	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	well no, 4 games of 65500 bytes each x 2 messages	[17:22]
asciilifeform	consider posting the code ?	[17:23]
asciilifeform	i'ma writin' my own, brb	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/otp.php for the bored	[17:29]
mircea_popescu	now, 64kb aren't that much, and the structure chosen is literally the simplest thing available for ease of implementation. nevertheless, a little DOES leak even so.	[17:32]
asciilifeform	as i said, writing own, brb	[17:33]
punkman	what's the point of public otp	[17:34]
mircea_popescu	so you can verify the program works correctly	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	first plaintext counts up from 1 ; the 2nd counts down from 65535	[17:35]
mircea_popescu	thus nth position in otp xor nth position in ciphered a must yield n and in ciphered b must yield 65535-n	[17:36]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu is looking at his rng bias.	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform otp bias cheifly doesn't matter here, as the same otp is delibverately used for both messages.	[17:37]
asciilifeform	it sure as fuck matters.	[17:39]
asciilifeform	or you could just skip the otp alltogether	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	looky : otp bias, message bias, same fucking story.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	bias xor no bias = no bias xor bias.	[17:39]
mircea_popescu	which was the original fucking point that ended up in all this weird.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	(bias) xor (no bias) == (no bias).	[17:40]
asciilifeform	which is the xor lemma.	[17:40]
mircea_popescu	= less bias.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	mno.	[17:40]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu finds a coin on the sidewalk.	[17:41]
asciilifeform	can he say what the ~previous~ flip was ?	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	i had no fucking idea the notion that you're supposed to debias plaintext before otping it is even controversial.	[17:41]
asciilifeform	why not ?	[17:41]
punkman	it is controversial	[17:41]
asciilifeform	^	[17:41]
mircea_popescu	cuz i don't know ~everything~, obviously.	[17:42]
asciilifeform	i realize that it cries against every mathematical intuition, but with correctly functioning otp, it makes not a whit of difference what your plaintext is.	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	are we confusing entropy and bias here ?	[17:42]
punkman	you can't get the bitmap penguin after otp	[17:42]
asciilifeform	aha. punkman gets it.	[17:42]
asciilifeform	funnily enough, last year there was some derp who shat into mircea_popescu's comment section with 'otp doesn't work because rng might burp out N zeros and then what'	[17:45]
mircea_popescu	let me try a different aprpoach, maybe that's more comprehensible.	[17:45]
asciilifeform	but for some reason mircea_popescu understood why this is lunacy, ~then~, but not now?	[17:45]
asciilifeform	(answer, for the thick, is that your rng, if it works correctly, is EXACTLY as likely to shit out a string that xors yours to 'kill stalin at midnight with table leg' as an equivalent length string of zeros, or any other.)	[17:46]
mircea_popescu	your bias-less rng shits out n/2 ones. they go against a message containing 3/4n ones. they will flip n/2 items in the message, 3/4 of which being 1s and 1/4 being 0s. you thus end up with 3/8 old ones + 1/8 ex-zeroes for a grand total of exactly 1/2 whoa.	[17:47]
mircea_popescu	da fuck.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	ahahahahahahahaha	[17:47]
asciilifeform	what did mircea_popescu ~think~ would happen here.	[17:47]
asciilifeform	!b 4	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	NEVERMIND	[17:48]
assbot	Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09XJYNZ.txt )	[17:48]
asciilifeform	l0l	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:48]
asciilifeform	still wanna play ? mircea_popescu can put the 10 in snsa piggy, if he wishes. or we can let the matter rest.	[17:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform well the whole result here is that ~your~ 10 btc can wait for a better day.	[17:49]
asciilifeform	sure, sure, l0lz	[17:49]
*	asciilifeform polishes imaginary brass 'Arithmetik mit uns' button	[17:50]
mircea_popescu	lol	[17:50]
*	asciilifeform his work here done, off to pet pet.	[17:51]
*	mircea_popescu goes to direct men at work in different field now, having satisfactorily brought his contribution here.	[17:52]
danielpbarron	math : the ultimate aphrodisiac ?	[17:52]
punkman	/me goes look for otp-compatible MAC scheme	[17:55]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4638 @ 0.00056542 = 2.6224 BTC [+]	[18:32]
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mircea_popescu	!up jixei	[19:26]
-assbot-	You voiced jixei for 30 minutes.	[19:27]
*	assbot gives voice to jixei	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	;;google B,TMSR~	[19:28]
gribble	B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: ; China's TMSR Program Presenter: ; Letter to Morgen E. Peck, freelance writer \| Contravex: A blog by ...:	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[19:28]
mircea_popescu		[19:30]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8662 @ 0.00056542 = 4.8977 BTC [+]	[19:36]
phf	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1397760 << when i was interviewing last year, was straight up told by several different companies that i should adjust my rate because i won't be able to compete in the market (that's a direct quote from on of the hr people). one company we went through several phone calls where different people were telling me that the salary requirement is a bit high, but maybe we can work something out	[19:37]
phf	that works for all of us, i.e. my impression is that the expectation was that i would cave and take less	[19:37]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 13:43:34; pete_d_out: "Moreover, employers may feel they can lowball applicants because they believe there is still a surplus of qualified candidates.	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	this is pretty much standard behaviour neh ?	[19:41]
mircea_popescu	trying to find out whether you know how much you're worth or not really at the very least.	[19:42]
mircea_popescu	and speaking of employment interviews, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9dp8uSZoQ1qddd4so1_1280.jpg	[19:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nV3rJ0 )	[19:43]
phf	well, i was out of the loop for couple of years, working for hsbc, and those guys don't haggle over 50k	[19:43]
mircea_popescu	ironically, they do in their core divisions. but not about it and so forth.	[19:44]
phf	just my impression is that it's gotten particularly toxic. i.e. lower your rate, or we'll just go with somebody else	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	"if my job can be done by somebody else you absolutely should."	[19:45]
phf	right, exactly	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	then they call back and well... it's a 5% more nao. just to get the message across.	[19:45]
phf	oh i like that	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	people not doing that (because people are generally NOT qualified for the jobs they get) is the principal reason it went toxic.	[19:48]
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phf	at my old jobs i used to seek out talanted devs, and during weekend drinking convince them that they should go demand a raise, it worked couple of times. those who would listen will immediately start moving up the ladder, "who would've thought". some people still reach out and tell me about their salary fights in the "i tell them go fuck themselves" kind of terms. warms my heart	[19:58]
phf	can't drink with devs anymore though, it gets boring really fast	[19:58]
mats	lol	[19:59]
ben_vulpes	christ seriously	[20:01]
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ben_vulpes	whoa thestringpuller v thorough	[20:03]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10340 @ 0.00056537 = 5.8459 BTC [-] {2}	[20:03]
ben_vulpes	that's going to take some reading.	[20:03]
phf	oh, a funny thing from last years interviews. i ask for a month vacation time (since 2 weeks is standard here, i just say 2 weeks pto and 2 weeks unpaid leave) written in the contract, so that there aren't any questions. during one interview guy was trying to convince me how that's bad for company and how it's a crazy thing to ask for, finally at the end he started complaining that he's been there for 5 years and was promissed friday	[20:07]
phf	work from home and they would not give it to home and that it's just life	[20:07]
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gernika	/query mod6	[20:11]
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ben_vulpes	phf: derps gon' derp.	[20:16]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b38	[20:27]
asciilifeform	re: thread with phf et al: it helps to not be totally broke when negotiating	[20:37]
asciilifeform	otherwise 'take what you're given, churl, and shuddup'	[20:38]
asciilifeform	and yes, when mircea_popescu wakes up he will no doubt supply us with the mega-insight that if i have no money it is because i have no competence at anything and oughta be boiled for soap asap	[20:40]
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asciilifeform	also wtf phf, every place i've ever worked will let you take whatever weeks of ~unpaid~ leave	[20:41]
asciilifeform	nobody gives a shit re unpaid leave	[20:41]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398559 << l0l!	[20:41]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 22:30:02; mircea_popescu: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA	[20:41]
asciilifeform	what was ~after~ these ?	[20:42]
asciilifeform	that there's the payload, let's have it ?	[20:42]
*	asciilifeform bbl	[20:42]
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shinohai	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-02-2016#1398568 <<< "We're sorry, but your asshole just won't stretch enough to meet our rigorous employment requirements."	[20:47]
assbot	Logged on 06-02-2016 22:43:02; mircea_popescu: and speaking of employment interviews, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9dp8uSZoQ1qddd4so1_1280.jpg	[20:47]
mats	i get 24 sick days at this new job l0l	[20:50]
mats	and after some years, not sure when but under ten, i get 48, wtf	[20:51]
mats	ben_vulpes: i remember you suggested that i read 'Leviathan Wakes'	[20:58]
mats	there is a SyFy thing called The Expanse nao	[20:58]
mats	and its p good.	[20:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00056824 = 6.7621 BTC [+] {4}	[21:01]
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ben_vulpes	mats: the expanse is a surprisingly high-quality-for-such-a-low-budget scifi flick	[21:01]
ben_vulpes	er, show	[21:01]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00056425 = 2.6238 BTC [-] {2}	[21:02]
ben_vulpes	the nullg scenes are judiciously placed for effect most of the time	[21:02]
ben_vulpes	for instance the blood cloud that collapsed when the martian warship began its burn was pretty good	[21:03]
ben_vulpes	but the drifting thinger in the cabin of episode 7? 6? was hilariously bad.	[21:03]
ben_vulpes	mats: did you ever read the books?	[21:03]
mats	i finished Leviathan Wakes, didn't get around to the others, but i will now	[21:03]
ben_vulpes	fairly entertaining	[21:04]
ben_vulpes	no actual physics violations iirc	[21:04]
ben_vulpes	mebbe the 'stealth' tech	[21:04]
mats	i know enough physics to put my pants on in the morning	[21:05]
ben_vulpes	"and enough statistics to place myself at the top of the bell curve"	[21:05]
mats	hay, small enough sample and i can be whatever i wanna be!	[21:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50176 @ 0.00056899 = 28.5496 BTC [+] {2}	[21:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3924 @ 0.00057008 = 2.237 BTC [+] {2}	[21:10]
ben_vulpes	the throwaway joke mats is that the top of the bell curve is entirely average, just like putting on pants in the morning	[21:11]
mats	i got the joke, yo.	[21:12]
ben_vulpes	aight aight	[21:14]
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ben_vulpes	asciilifeform, mod6: if pressing is intended to be curated by patch selection in the patches dir, seals in the sealsdir and keys in the wotdir, why does "press" need to take a head?	[21:25]
ben_vulpes	not a pressing question.	[21:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19443 @ 0.00055889 = 10.8665 BTC [-] {3}	[21:27]
shinohai	https://sandstorm.io/ <<< am I only person that thinks this is a horrible idea?	[21:30]
assbot	Sandstorm ... ( http://bit.ly/1UUh45m )	[21:30]
BingoBoingo	The nausea, if only they knew Mp doesn't have this kind of time https://archive.is/sJc9d	[21:33]
assbot	sciencehatesyou comments on Slashdot Knows Of Our ButterFiend Mircea Popescu ... ( http://bit.ly/1UUhnNy )	[21:33]
ben_vulpes	shinohai: something like that could murder the google apps system	[21:35]
ben_vulpes	no idea if that one's going to	[21:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38453 @ 0.0005693 = 21.8913 BTC [+] {3}	[21:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44050 @ 0.0005703 = 25.1217 BTC [+] {2}	[21:51]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29454 @ 0.00055644 = 16.3894 BTC [-] {3}	[22:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33895 @ 0.00055769 = 18.9029 BTC [+] {2}	[22:20]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00055644 = 4.9801 BTC [-]	[22:37]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40125 @ 0.00055235 = 22.163 BTC [-] {4}	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes> "and enough statistics to place myself at the top of the bell curve" <<< haha good one.	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	shinohai <<< am I only person that thinks this is a horrible idea? << i can't discern what the idea is supposed to be. glorified vps ? 9.95 a month sorta deal.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo it's pretty flattering, in honesty. look at all the things i have time to do in a day!	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	a bit like how well traveled washington was. fucker slept in all beds ever found in new england.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	but in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/a95fe147aad2fc835bdf3710567b1c38/tumblr_nrqscruWPc1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg	[22:58]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/23Qwyxd )	[22:58]
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mircea_popescu	!up archStanton	[23:04]
-assbot-	You voiced archStanton for 30 minutes.	[23:04]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00057042 = 14.0894 BTC [+] {3}	[23:05]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[23:13]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[23:13]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014	[23:13]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice.	[23:13]
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ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: is this return to copying of loglines instead of referencing the log an attempt to make life easier for the future archaeologists by not polluting the global threadspace?	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	nah, dpeends if i load from log. webpage or from the scrollback	[23:24]
mircea_popescu	i'd have thought the referencing is easier	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	sure	[23:25]
ben_vulpes	thought it might've indicated some difference in threads for archival/archaeology and emphemera	[23:26]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35500 @ 0.00055324 = 19.64 BTC [-]	[23:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23600 @ 0.00055735 = 13.1535 BTC [+]	[23:48]
*	mircea_popescu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[23:53]
*	Disconnected (Remote host closed socket).	[23:53]

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