Forum logs for 07 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [00:22]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [00:22]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [00:22]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [00:22]
ben_vulpes one for shinohai: [00:22]
assbot ... ( ) [00:22]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [00:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13744 @ 0.0005598 = 7.6939 BTC [+] [00:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.0005598 = 9.6006 BTC [+] [00:35]
mircea_popescu four! [00:36]
assbot ... ( ) [00:36]
ben_vulpes i count...six? [00:37]
mircea_popescu that's before the otp. [00:37]
mircea_popescu anyway, matching tops and curtains' gotta be some new sort of win. [00:37]
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phf asciilifeform: nobody gives a shit re unpaid leave << maybe when begged for day at a time, but try taking a week of unpaid leave ~explicitly~ for vacation, and you're going to find yourself in "conversation" with hr pretty fast. putting that in contract is even trickier. it's a control issue, first and foremost [00:49]
phf [00:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39376 @ 0.0005598 = 22.0427 BTC [+] [00:52]
ben_vulpes all i care about is some warning [00:54]
ben_vulpes proportional to the time off [00:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00055999 = 11.0878 BTC [+] {2} [01:04]
* adlai is qntring up the impending diff increase, adding statistics about the "fee market"; any specific requests/suggestions? [01:09]
adlai mircea_popescu, BingoBoingo, et al ^ [01:11]
adlai ;;bc,stats [01:12]
gribble Current Blocks: 397149 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 2 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 minutes and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [01:12]
adlai hmm, this is a bit confusing of gribble: block #397151 still uses the same difficulty. it determines the next difficulty, but the first block using the new diff is 397152 [01:14]
ben_vulpes adlai: just out of curiosity, do you have historical mempool data? [01:16]
adlai kinda sorta [01:17]
assbot Logged on 05-03-2015 22:14:45; mike_c: mm, not quite. because order book could have been better than price history at times [01:17]
adlai (the relevant bits are the "mm, not quite") [01:17]
adlai ultimately, it doesn't matter in quite a similar manner to how past orderbook data doesn't matter [01:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24352 @ 0.00056325 = 13.7163 BTC [+] [01:19]
adlai ben_vulpes: you can scrape several months from [01:19]
assbot Bitcoin Fee Estimation ... ( ) [01:19]
adlai but it's not raw data [01:20]
ben_vulpes myeah. [01:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22386 @ 0.00056471 = 12.6416 BTC [+] [01:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38502 @ 0.00056824 = 21.8784 BTC [+] {4} [01:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20792 @ 0.00056822 = 11.8144 BTC [-] {3} [01:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00056109 = 8.22 BTC [-] {4} [01:48]
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mircea_popescu and in posteriority news, [01:57]
assbot ... ( ) [01:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00057042 = 13.0626 BTC [+] {2} [01:59]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_rear [02:05]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_rear for 30 minutes. [02:05]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_rear [02:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51773 @ 0.00056966 = 29.493 BTC [-] {4} [02:09]
mircea_popescu "Beginning on October 3 and continuing through December 18, 2015, an unknown party accessed without authorization two cloud providers used by Gyft. This unknown party was able to view or download certain Gyft user information stored with these cloud providers and make a file containing some of that user information. [02:10]
mircea_popescu What Information Was Involved? [02:10]
mircea_popescu The information potentially accessed from the cloud providers included names, addresses, dates of birth, phone numbers, email addresses, and gift card numbers. Gift card numbers could have been used to make unauthorized purchases." [02:10]
ascii_rear << precisely reactor crank - so that you ~are conscious~ of what you are doing! [02:10]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 00:25:13; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6: if pressing is intended to be curated by patch selection in the patches dir, seals in the sealsdir and keys in the wotdir, why does "press" need to take a head? [02:10]
mircea_popescu herp. [02:10]
ben_vulpes ascii_rear: ah. [02:12]
mircea_popescu and in random tardstalk craft, "Stop posting that I am a scam or it is simple I can have my lawyer visit your site and send you a size and assist letter not to be slandering." [02:13]
ben_vulpes i don't see how this is anything other than busy work, if i'm to curate the patchdir for presses anyways. [02:13]
ben_vulpes perhaps though i would jump out of a plane with a mispacked parachute? [02:13]
mircea_popescu "by the looks of you, you already did" [02:14]
ben_vulpes plz no bully :( [02:14]
mircea_popescu lol k. [02:14]
mircea_popescu lettuce instead discuss isis. [02:15]
assbot ... ( ) [02:15]
ben_vulpes ascii_rear: i recall reading in the log that your vtron's implicit pressing behavior is asciibetical up to indicated head, but i'm having trouble reconciling that with other reqs i once read: that vs press longest chain, and also that vs press all usable patches. would that accurately modify to 'longest chain up to indicated head'? [02:16]
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deedbot- [Trilema] MPEx (S.MPOE) January 2016 Statement - [02:21]
ben_vulpes (also ascii_rear i am having trouble understanding how vdiff turns $2 [which i'd expect to be the dir] into individual files for hashing and writing into the vpatch) [02:25]
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danielpbarron "Kiss'n'Kill" featuring the "KONDOM SIMULATOR" [02:32]
assbot ... ( ) [02:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2064 @ 0.00057043 = 1.1774 BTC [+] {2} [02:37]
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ben_vulpes yeah i basically have nfi how vdiff is making the per-file hashes happen [02:52]
ben_vulpes C'EST UN MYSTERE [02:52]
ben_vulpes ^^ asciilifeform, mod6, phf, polarbeard, mircea_popescu: if any of you are willing to explain the inscrawkutable vdiff to my maleducated self i'd be much obliged [02:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00057043 = 4.8772 BTC [+] {2} [02:54]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron looks like that needs some hilfe. [03:00]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes just hashes the file content, what ? [03:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00056612 = 12.0017 BTC [-] {3} [03:01]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: how is it disambiguated from $2, which is the dir input to diff? [03:02]
mircea_popescu it recurses through the dir, neh ? [03:03]
ben_vulpes oh because that's in the context of the awk statement and the file path is the second entry in that context? [03:03]
ben_vulpes keep in mind that awk is acting on the text output of diff, it's not recursing anywhere [03:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41556 @ 0.00056219 = 23.3624 BTC [-] {3} [03:04]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell asciilifeform ^^ i believe that i understand how vdiff works, if you'd confirm, i'd appreciate. [03:04]
gribble The operation succeeded. [03:04]
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ben_vulpes << so here's what my (unreleased, v2) vtron does: it grabs all patches and all sigs, merges them into an alphabetically sorted list, and then munches through that list attaching sigs whose name matches the previous patch to that patch. is this a blindingly stupid thing to do? i realize that it depends implicitly on the naming convention, but would like to hear about other unrealized [03:17]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 21:04:13; ascii_butugychag: phf: O(N^2) [03:17]
ben_vulpes stupidities in the approach. [03:17]
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ben_vulpes also of note vdiff does not work under macos [03:33]
ben_vulpes craps down 'false' instead of *hash* [03:33]
ben_vulpes *closed* *wontfix* [03:33]
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mod6 ;;tslb [03:40]
gribble Time since last block: 1 minute and 16 seconds [03:40]
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* assbot gives voice to adlai [04:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7694 @ 0.00056873 = 4.3758 BTC [+] {2} [04:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056878 = 12.9113 BTC [+] {2} [04:12]
adlai ;;later tell BingoBoingo for your qind qntsidration, [04:23]
gribble The operation succeeded. [04:23]
assbot ... ( ) [04:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00056897 = 4.95 BTC [+] {2} [04:27]
mats TIL ppc macs had a Forth shell by way of 'OpenFirmware' [04:28]
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mats OLPC does too, but i've mentioned that before. [04:33]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31864 @ 0.00056699 = 18.0666 BTC [-] {3} [04:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25813 @ 0.00056247 = 14.519 BTC [-] [04:50]
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BingoBoingo ty adlai [05:11]
deedbot- [Qntra] Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Crosses 144 Million With 20.06% Rise - [05:12]
* adlai is open to suggestions of fee market statistics to display, beyond the obvious "picture is worth >9K shares" [05:13]
punkman mats: there is a SyFy thing called The Expanse nao << possibly the only SyFy show I didn't stop watching mid-episode [05:13]
punkman the space-noir was good, the space-politics kinda weak [05:13]
ben_vulpes kinda hate ancient earth babe [05:14]
ben_vulpes although the scene with the two ancient earth babes was amusing in how solidly it failed the bechdel test [05:15]
mats holy shit, 1exahash and at 20% increase [05:17]
punkman did we break sha256 yet [05:17]
ben_vulpes 512 up [05:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0005629 = 2.4768 BTC [+] {2} [05:19]
punkman I'm gonna hack on my diff implementation today, any suggestions welcome [05:21]
ben_vulpes diff impl? [05:21]
ben_vulpes link to original? [05:21]
ben_vulpes or v impl [05:21]
punkman diff [05:21]
ben_vulpes have you shared something from which suggestions might bloom? [05:21]
punkman not much to share yet [05:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00056461 = 9.8807 BTC [+] {2} [05:23]
punkman the obvious stuff: file deletes without needing to dump whole file in the diff. also thinking on how to handle simple renames. [05:27]
punkman perhaps a token-replace operation, but then we are venturing in ascii's "turing-complete-diff" [05:29]
ben_vulpes adlai: do you know how to rebind a var to a specific value at the beginning of every iteration through a loop in cl? [05:40]
ben_vulpes (and wouldja share if so?) [05:41]
punkman is it different than setting a regular variable? [05:42]
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adlai ben_vulpes: (loop for a = 10 do (stuff :to a)) ? [05:43]
* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [05:43]
ben_vulpes for's rebind, with's do not? [05:43]
adlai correct, but the full picture is much more subtle [05:44]
adlai for x = init then next [05:44]
adlai leaving out next rebinds to init each time [05:44]
ben_vulpes huh [05:44]
ben_vulpes where can i get my hands on complete documentation for the loop macro? [05:45]
ben_vulpes clhs keeps failing me [05:45]
ben_vulpes and 'loop for black belts' has a limited set of recipes. [05:45]
punkman inspect it in the repl? [05:45]
adlai this no-next-defaults-to-init behavior is potentially confusing because the do macro does not have this behavior [05:46]
adlai ben_vulpes: [05:46]
* ben_vulpes has to step out, apologies for asking at an beforehand-unknowably-importune moment [05:46]
assbot CLHS: Section ... ( ) [05:46]
ben_vulpes thanks adlai [05:46]
ben_vulpes bb shortly [05:46]
adlai section 6 is/willbe your friend when you return [05:46]
BingoBoingo adlai: BTW you did the off by thousand error thing [05:50]
punkman [05:51]
assbot Coccinellery: A gallery of semantic patches for use with Coccinelle ... ( ) [05:51]
adlai BingoBoingo: it's just a single letter, they're even adjacent on dvorak [05:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19784 @ 0.00056357 = 11.1497 BTC [-] {2} [05:58]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7316 @ 0.0005629 = 4.1182 BTC [-] [05:59]
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BingoBoingo adlai: and [06:03]
assbot Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Crosses 144 Billion With 20.06% Rise | Qntra ... ( ) [06:03]
BingoBoingo In other news apparently AWS isn't good enough for this round of forkers [06:09]
assbot Bring Up Your Nodes : btc ... ( ) [06:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.0005629 = 15.9864 BTC [-] {2} [06:13]
ben_vulpes > sending a supremely strong message to all [06:17]
ben_vulpes sure [06:17]
ben_vulpes who is this aquentin again? [06:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00056915 = 9.7325 BTC [+] {3} [06:18]
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ben_vulpes adlai: a) i am annoyed that someone has coopted your 3 letters of tab completion and never says anything in here b) monthly averages and standard deviations of transaction fees as percentage of total miner subsidy would be far more informative [06:20]
adlai hmm, tab completion is worth defending [06:21]
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ben_vulpes i'll take cab funpletion over dick blocks any day [06:22]
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ben_vulpes whoa [06:24]
ben_vulpes was adlie one of yours? [06:24]
ben_vulpes also thank you for the link to chapter six. [06:24]
adlai np. and yes: SaslServ (SaslServ@services.): liead!~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai has just authenticated as you (Adlai) [06:25]
ben_vulpes thank you for the 6 pairs of 'ai' that you saved me from typing over the next month [06:27]
adlai "ai must come from within" [06:27]
ben_vulpes "the spirit of stallman compels you!" [06:28]
adlai re:CL, i suggest at some point taking seriously and going over the spec cover to cover, not to grok its content, but rather - the structure [06:30]
assbot Logged on 23-01-2016 18:31:57; asciilifeform: 978 motherfucking keywords in ansi std. [06:30]
ben_vulpes man is anyone from X3J13 still alive at this point? [06:30]
ben_vulpes adlai: noted. [06:31]
ben_vulpes however i don't see myself doing that any time soon, and sicp is...somewhat higher on the list. [06:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14570 @ 0.0005629 = 8.2015 BTC [-] {2} [06:32]
adlai << looks alive! [06:32]
assbot Kent Pitman's Home Page ... ( ) [06:32]
punkman [06:34]
assbot GitHub - maqp/tfc-otp: Tinfoil Chat (OTP) ... ( ) [06:34]
ben_vulpes usually all i'm curious about is 'why is *that* implementation dependent?!' [06:35]
adlai because [06:35]
assbot Common Lisp: The Untold Story ... ( ) [06:35]
ben_vulpes punkman: either 1/10 troll or you have better repl foo than my incompetent self and should share this wisdom [06:36]
adlai the handwritten notes bit ("5.2 Early Politics and Posturing") is excellent, all relevant to bitcoin too [06:36]
ben_vulpes oh man adlai i didn't even know i was looking for that [06:37]
punkman ben_vulpes: I don't lisp but thought lisp was cool enough to let you inspect everything in repl [06:37]
BingoBoingo who is this aquentin again? << troll dude [06:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20788 @ 0.00056256 = 11.6945 BTC [-] {2} [06:39]
adlai punkman: the problem is that is not "lisp", in the sense of "inspect the function to read its documentation string", but rather "ANSI Common Lisp", in the sense of [06:39]
assbot CLHS: Macro LOOP ... ( ) [06:39]
assbot CLHS: Section 6.1.1 ... ( ) [06:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26836 @ 0.00056243 = 15.0934 BTC [-] {2} [06:40]
adlai the other hairball horrorshow being, eg, [06:41]
assbot CLHS: Section ... ( ) [06:41]
ben_vulpes i am not ready for the tildenightmare [06:41]
adlai ben_vulpes: C-c C-d ~ [06:41]
adlai second only to C-c C-d # [06:42]
adlai infuriatingly enough, `C-c C-d h` does not work for loop keywords such as the for-=-then clause [06:43]
ben_vulpes well that's a helluva shortcut [06:44]
ben_vulpes thank you, adlai [06:44]
* adlai is glad to see ben_vulpes using lisp enough to need these! [06:44]
ben_vulpes mwell i don't really 'get to' code except for tmsr any more [06:46]
ben_vulpes although i do drive-by javascript debugging pretty well [06:47]
ben_vulpes and can *almost* run down objective c weirdness on my own when qa'ing others' work [06:48]
ben_vulpes but good god [06:48]
ben_vulpes the clicking [06:48]
ben_vulpes endless [06:48]
ben_vulpes clicking [06:48]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00056136 = 5.5013 BTC [-] {2} [07:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056835 = 11.7648 BTC [+] {2} [07:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00057001 = 12.0842 BTC [+] {2} [07:51]
deedbot- [cascadian hacker] V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system - [08:01]
ben_vulpes mod6, mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, phf, punkman: feedback greatly appreciated [08:12]
ben_vulpes happy second birthday, cascadianhacker [08:19]
ben_vulpes (month late, only looked it up today) [08:19]
BingoBoingo Congrats ben_vulpes [08:19]
ben_vulpes ty BingoBoingo [08:20]
ben_vulpes remember when mircea_popescu liked to troll people into starting blogs? [08:20]
BingoBoingo Doesn't he still? People just listen less now. [08:20]
ben_vulpes i'm still a dumb sucker [08:20]
BingoBoingo In other news only takes 14 point to get third place on /r/bitcoin [08:21]
assbot Bitcoin ... ( ) [08:21]
ben_vulpes hey one post slightly more frequently than every week for two years [08:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00057043 = 8.5565 BTC [+] {2} [08:22]
ben_vulpes << oh so that's what happened to c4 [08:23]
assbot Satoshi Roundtable | Private Retreat ... ( ) [08:23]
ben_vulpes << someone bother the dood? [08:24]
punkman ben_vulpes: s/descendents/descendants [08:26]
BingoBoingo ioerror dude is tor developer. Bothering likely goes straight to fort meade [08:26]
ben_vulpes well in that case [08:27]
ben_vulpes ty punkman [08:27]
punkman ooh seems both are valid words actually [08:28]
BingoBoingo And danielpbarron seems to have already bothered [08:28]
ben_vulpes punkman: that would explain why i john kerry all over them [08:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38150 @ 0.00057145 = 21.8008 BTC [+] {3} [08:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00056999 = 18.9237 BTC [-] {2} [08:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3250 @ 0.00056999 = 1.8525 BTC [-] [08:39]
punkman "Subgraph Mail is a new desktop email client written from scratch, with its own implementation of OpenPGP built-in." that will surely end well " [08:42]
punkman "Subgraph believes that managed runtimes and memory-safe languages should be used where possible. For this reason, Subgraph Mail, the Metaproxy, and other components of the Subgraph OS are written in higher level languages that are memory-safe or run in managed runtimes, making them less susceptible to memory corruption style implementation vulnerabilities. " [08:44]
punkman so we used... Java [08:44]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14962 @ 0.00057154 = 8.5514 BTC [+] [08:48]
BingoBoingo !b 2 [08:50]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [08:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.00056999 = 22.5146 BTC [-] {2} [08:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27550 @ 0.00057156 = 15.7465 BTC [+] {2} [09:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16454 @ 0.00056999 = 9.3786 BTC [-] [09:02]
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oglafbot [10:18]
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mircea_popescu o hey new oglaf [10:21]
BingoBoingo Well, it is Sunday [10:22]
BingoBoingo Ah, linked the wrong thing [10:23]
BingoBoingo [10:23]
assbot Perhaps ... ( ) [10:23]
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shinohai <<< yiss ben_vulpes [10:41]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 03:18:49; ben_vulpes: one for shinohai: [10:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056983 = 7.9776 BTC [+] [10:42]
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mircea_popescu such delicious bacons! [10:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37121 @ 0.00057081 = 21.189 BTC [+] {2} [10:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7579 @ 0.00057168 = 4.3328 BTC [+] [10:54]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo check it out, reads exactly like contemporary anglo literature. [10:59]
BingoBoingo Which thing read that way? [10:59]
mircea_popescu Iron Men III! [11:01]
mircea_popescu << what's space-noir mean here ? << da fuck is a bechdel test ? [11:04]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 08:09:56; punkman: the space-noir was good, the space-politics kinda weak [11:04]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 08:11:39; ben_vulpes: although the scene with the two ancient earth babes was amusing in how solidly it failed the bechdel test [11:04]
* mircea_popescu feels like he's 5 years old all of a sudden! [11:04]
mircea_popescu "The Bechdel test (/ˈbɛkdəl/ BEK-dəl) asks whether a work of fiction features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man." [11:04]
mircea_popescu ha. [11:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23700 @ 0.00056657 = 13.4277 BTC [-] {4} [11:05]
mircea_popescu this is not a bad idea, is it! imagine if all conversation between dudes was either absent (such as is traditionally in westerns and other tough-man stuff in the style) or otherwise entirely about "booze bitches blunts" as in the usual dudefare. [11:06]
mircea_popescu you'd think it's all made in hollywood, going on the tiresome superficiality. [11:06]
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mircea_popescu "It is decision time guys and right now the number of nodes is what is most important, perhaps, even decisive." << o hey, it trickled down ? [11:09]
mircea_popescu "I worry that support for classic has become rather wishy-washy (like with everything else in bitcoin currently). Miners need to get serious right now, no more messing around." hurr durr. [11:09]
mircea_popescu mkay. [11:09]
copypaste people who have no say in anything thinking they matter [11:10]
mircea_popescu << yes. [11:10]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 09:20:24; ben_vulpes: was adlie one of yours? [11:10]
mircea_popescu << in other news, longstanding reddit-based admirer/landwhale finally broke the wall! [11:11]
assbot The SOPS, or what might you expect from government clerks on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [11:11]
mircea_popescu did you know sciencehatesyou actually abbreviates to "shy" ? neither did i! but apparently it's what it stands for! [11:11]
BingoBoingo Oh [11:12]
mircea_popescu "In TFC, Alice enters her message into running on her Transmitter Module (TxM), a TCB separated from network. encrypts the message and signs the ciphertext. TxM then relays the packet to Network Handler (NH) through RS-232 interface and a data diode." [11:16]
mircea_popescu << look what punkman1 dredged up! it actually looks interesting. [11:16]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 09:30:48; punkman: [11:16]
mircea_popescu or at least, no obvious "gtfo flags" i immediately notice. [11:16]
mircea_popescu now who's Markus Ottela aka mapq and why isn't he in here. [11:17]
mircea_popescu << i like this cogent version of adlai better than any other i've to date perceived! [11:20]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 09:35:57; adlai: punkman: the problem is that is not "lisp", in the sense of "inspect the function to read its documentation string", but rather "ANSI Common Lisp", in the sense of [11:20]
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mircea_popescu guy sounds like a competent lawyer. (and yes, contrary to the view commonly held by people who have no idea, there exists such a thing as competent lawyers, it's an intellectual field like any other and just as capable to contain "lovely gems and brilliant coups" as the field of mel is.) [11:22]
mircea_popescu << cheers! [11:23]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 11:15:33; ben_vulpes: happy second birthday, cascadianhacker [11:23]
mircea_popescu << ha, they actually listen slightly more! [11:24]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 11:16:52; BingoBoingo: Doesn't he still? People just listen less now. [11:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056564 = 12.84 BTC [-] [11:24]
mircea_popescu << lol naw. [11:27]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 11:19:28; ben_vulpes: << oh so that's what happened to c4 [11:27]
* mircea_popescu braces himself for a bunch of people doing riding shots of themselves next. [11:27]
mircea_popescu << i have nfi how they figure that the LANGUAGE is going to protect you from the hardware. what can it do ? say to any misbehaving items sharing its heap that "oh no you don't, this here is extra special good stuff!" ? [11:29]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 11:40:49; punkman: so we used... Java [11:29]
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polarbeard mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mod6: a backport for sendrawtransaction rpc command, [12:36]
polarbeard [12:36]
assbot ... ( ) [12:37]
polarbeard [12:37]
assbot ... ( ) [12:37]
phf ^- [12:38]
assbot polarbeard_add_sendrawtransaction_rpc ... ( ) [12:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056691 = 9.4107 BTC [-] {2} [12:41]
phf polarbeard: hey, do you mind linking to your pgp key [12:43]
phf never mind, found it [12:44]
polarbeard here you are: [12:44]
assbot Public Key Server -- Get "0x11cc9042929d3682 " ... ( ) [12:44]
phf yeap [12:45]
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phf << i thought i posted this before, but there are two fixes required on mac os x, sha512sum needs to be replaced with shasum -a 512 (and on openbsd with sha512). since awk can't find the command, it always goes for false. second fix is that you need to explicitly close the external checksum command, because bsd awk doesn't. instead it keeps all [13:08]
phf those open files around until eventually running out of handlers ("too many files open" message) [13:08]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 06:29:24; ben_vulpes: also of note vdiff does not work under macos [13:08]
assbot ... ( ) [13:08]
mircea_popescu polarbeard nice. [13:10]
phf as far as what it does i hope formatting in the paste above makes it more readable. for each line that starts with --- or +++ awk extract the filename and runs shasum on the file, then prints the new diff line with shasum included. for other files it just outputs whatever's there. so it's a filter that transforms mentions of diff'ed files into diffed files + checksum [13:11]
phf ben_vulpes: ^- [13:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00057821 = 8.5575 BTC [+] {2} [13:21]
deedbot- [Qntra] Foundation Co-Chair Publishes Introduction To V Provenance System - [13:26]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes "Mirror of antecedents, returns patches that depend on it's argument." << its. [13:43]
mircea_popescu "Stan delivers a beautifully terse toposort implementation here. He leverages language features in both data structure and control flow, and the resulting code is terse and readable." << too much terse! [13:45]
mircea_popescu funny application of the entire symbols vs words debate, incidentally. was it deliberate ? [13:46]
mircea_popescu "Stan's program makes excellent and judicious use of global state, but I am nowhere near disciplined enough to do the same to good effect" << a simple trick [expert programmers hate] to achieve this is you know you can map state on paper for a while until it's learned. [13:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00057804 = 3.1503 BTC [-] {2} [13:49]
mircea_popescu "I'll leave the bombast and politics to those typically responsible for such." << ha! [13:50]
mircea_popescu !up hdbuck [13:51]
-assbot- You voiced hdbuck for 30 minutes. [13:51]
* assbot gives voice to hdbuck [13:51]
hdbuck hello there [13:52]
mircea_popescu heya. [13:53]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes very nice summary, actually. [13:53]
phf ben_vulpes: man is anyone from X3J13 still alive at this point? << probably better question, who has died, because the majority of the people form the committee are still alive. has an almost complete list of 104 ("These are attendees from minutes back through 3/88"), of those i recognize about 40, of those ~~10 i've been in touch with in the past year and another ~~10 are [13:54]
phf still doing things with public output (e.g. guy steele, richard gabriel, ...) [13:54]
assbot ... ( ) [13:54]
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hdbuck hum so any chance you’d let me know if I would still be leaking IP now? [13:54]
mircea_popescu hdbuck nope, * hdbuck (~hdbuck@unaffiliated/hdbuck) has joined #bitcoin-assets logged correctly. [13:55]
phf ben_vulpes: oh i remember dan weinreb died couple of years ago, of cancer actually. [13:57]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_rear [13:58]
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deedbot- [Qntra] DPRK Launches Satellite Into Space - [13:58]
ascii_rear ben_vulpes: good 'v' summary - but i'm still waiting for somebody to crap out a treatise re: the philosophical 'why' of it [13:59]
ascii_rear most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this [14:00]
ascii_rear << 'loop' is a macro, you can read the source in steele's cltl2 [14:02]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 09:35:57; adlai: punkman: the problem is that is not "lisp", in the sense of "inspect the function to read its documentation string", but rather "ANSI Common Lisp", in the sense of [14:02]
ascii_rear and yes, eternal comp.lang.lisp holy war re: it constituting a heathen small language within cl [14:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00057183 = 34.0525 BTC [-] {4} [14:04]
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ascii_rear << nothing against this, but was hoping folks would make all new rpc calls shivatronic... [14:05]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 15:33:02; polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mod6: a backport for sendrawtransaction rpc command, [14:05]
* punkman1 is now known as punkman [14:05]
mircea_popescu ascii_rear> most civilians i've introduced to vtronics had problems with, initially, this << the problem here is that the only reason why is not obvious is because of issues in the reader's head, and a general treatise to address all possible personal issues can not really be made. [14:05]
mircea_popescu we're stuck discussing it with them one at a time. like education. [14:06]
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ascii_rear << tor?! [14:06]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 14:12:45; mircea_popescu: or at least, no obvious "gtfo flags" i immediately notice. [14:06]
mircea_popescu ascii_rear the backport works right now, for trinque's use for instance. shivatronic, tomorrow. [14:06]
punkman relevant quote in something I was just reading: "History is not the study of origins; rather it is the analysis of all the mediations by which the past was turned into our present." [14:06]
ascii_rear works, works [14:07]
mircea_popescu ascii_rear in general, but mind the peculiar way he is using it. merely there to hide metadata from the people who don't have it anyway [14:07]
mircea_popescu punkman truth. [14:07]
punkman ascii_rear: can easily be adapted to anything that takes serial protocol [14:07]
punkman also uses dbus to talk to pidgin [14:07]
ascii_rear ick [14:07]
mircea_popescu no but he has a point : if you're going to throw up might as well because "pidgin" [14:08]
punkman the otp implementation is possibly decent though [14:08]
mircea_popescu rather than tor [14:08]
ascii_rear and what part is new? diode is ancient [14:08]
mircea_popescu nothing is new. [14:08]
phf loop's source is not in cltl2, but the canonical implementation, MIT LOOP, is available in cmu archive [14:08]
assbot Package: lang/lisp/code/iter/loop/mit/ ... ( ) [14:08]
ascii_rear phf : open your cltl2, it sure as hell is there [14:08]
phf can't, all the books are in storage, so i have to talk out of my ass [14:09]
ascii_rear what, phf is the only user without warez copy? [14:09]
ascii_rear L0l [14:09]
punkman mircea_popescu: what's space-noir mean here << film-noir-in-space [14:10]
mircea_popescu but... what does this mean! [14:10]
mircea_popescu i got as far on my own, but... wut ?! [14:10]
punkman the film-noir aspects of the series? [14:11]
mircea_popescu can you be specific ? [14:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108312 @ 0.00057871 = 62.6812 BTC [+] {5} [14:15]
punkman well I couldn't really give you a good definition of "film-noir", but there's a cynical private-dick type guy, searching for a girl that disappeared mysteriously [14:15]
deedbot- [Qntra] Tribulations Of Nordic System Affecting Universities - [14:16]
ascii_rear how about 'dark city' mega-film ? [14:17]
punkman dark city was fun, I think I actually saw it in a cinema [14:17]
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mircea_popescu oh oh that i see. [14:24]
mircea_popescu so basically dick tracy in space [14:25]
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BingoBoingo In other news, Qntra just passed 1000 posts. was number 1000 [14:39]
assbot DPRK Launches Satellite Into Space | Qntra ... ( ) [14:39]
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BingoBoingo And Qntra is in hour 6 or seven near the top of /r/bitcoin without getting blackholed down yet [14:40]
assbot Bitcoin ... ( ) [14:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00056204 = 18.4911 BTC [-] {4} [14:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10550 @ 0.00057239 = 6.0387 BTC [+] [14:52]
danielpbarron Luke-Jr must be beside himself [14:54]
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mircea_popescu grats on the millenium! [15:02]
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mats i wonder what it cost to spin up the 20% diff increase [15:27]
mircea_popescu coupla hundred mils or so. [15:29]
mats good to know. [15:30]
mircea_popescu by no means the end of the world. won't even buy you a walk's worth of county road. [15:31]
polarbeard asciilifeform: will play with shivatronics soon, probably after exploring gcov dumping [15:36]
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punkman [15:51]
assbot 22/C4.1 - Collective Code Construction Contract - 0MQ Requests for Comments ... ( ) [15:51]
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mircea_popescu punkman Pieter Hintjens is imo gunk, the epitome of the plowing fly. [15:52]
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mircea_popescu "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the best keyboard design to do away wi [15:53]
mircea_popescu th the Caps Lock key. It was funded by donations from the campaign's supporters and eventually raised €194.91." << this is a good summary of the man's contributions. they evaluate to < 200 euro + a wikipedia paragraph. [15:53]
mircea_popescu tomes could be written on the particulars of an overcompensating inferiority complex that seeks to remedy internal tension through far reaching "reforms" of the outer world. i'm too lazy. tomes could similarly be written about tardspedia, but i've done all of that i could be bothered to. so let's forget they both ever existed and move on. [15:56]
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punkman he drove all the important folks away from 0mq too [16:03]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_rear [16:08]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_rear for 30 minutes. [16:08]
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ascii_rear << wut?!? [16:10]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 18:47:08; punkman: [16:10]
ascii_rear << i've remapped it to cntrl for decade+, like other sane folk [16:11]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 18:49:44; mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the [16:11]
ascii_rear where is my campaign l0l [16:11]
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mircea_popescu heh [16:12]
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ascii_rear i dun get it [16:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32750 @ 0.00055999 = 18.3397 BTC [-] {2} [16:24]
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punkman !up maqp [16:57]
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maqp Hey. Came to say hi after someone requested [16:58]
mircea_popescu o hey there. [17:02]
mircea_popescu you're the guy with the open source otp / airgapped thing are you ? [17:02]
mircea_popescu !up Conflict [17:02]
-assbot- You voiced Conflict for 30 minutes. [17:02]
* assbot gives voice to Conflict [17:02]
maqp yes [17:02]
mircea_popescu nice work! [17:02]
mircea_popescu !s tinfoil chat [17:03]
assbot 1 results for 'tinfoil chat' : [17:03]
mircea_popescu ^that's the discussion in the log. [17:03]
mircea_popescu you ever gave any thought to making some sort of marketable item out of that ? [17:03]
maqp thanks. I wanted to recommend you guys take a look at the TFC-NaCl that's fresh out of oven and has better design compared to OTP/CEV versions [17:04]
mircea_popescu link [17:04]
maqp [17:04]
assbot GitHub - maqp/tfc-nacl: Tinfoil Chat (NaCl) ... ( ) [17:04]
mircea_popescu also, it's a good idea to register your pgp key with assbot. that way you create an identity in the wot we can attach to. [17:05]
maqp I haven't had the time to update the two other versions [17:05]
mircea_popescu otherwise, you ever heard of bitcoin ? [17:06]
maqp Well, since this is a public chat room with no secrecy/authenticity, I don't really see the need at the moment [17:06]
mircea_popescu oh, there's plenty of authenticity. like so : [17:06]
mircea_popescu !gettrust punkman [17:06]
assbot Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user punkman: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 13 via 13 connections. | | [17:06]
maqp So are you running something that signs all your IRC messages or what are we talking about? [17:07]
mircea_popescu just no secrecy, deliberately. [17:07]
mircea_popescu nah, but you can order specific things be entered into the record by signing them [17:07]
mircea_popescu one case is ratings, which is how that wot is made. i go !rate x y [17:07]
mircea_popescu the other case is signed documents, there's a bot that keeps a notary service. [17:08]
mircea_popescu < [17:08]
assbot ... ( ) [17:08]
adlai !b 42 [17:08]
assbot Last 42 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [17:08]
mircea_popescu autosigning things is poorly regarded here. [17:08]
maqp I see. The problem with GPG however is the lack of deniability. I'd rather keep things off the record <: [17:09]
mircea_popescu aha. [17:09]
mircea_popescu so you ever heard of bitcoin ? [17:09]
maqp yeah, sure. I haven't had the need for it. At least yet. [17:10]
mircea_popescu would you like some ? [17:10]
maqp like donations? [17:10]
mircea_popescu myeah. [17:10]
phf ascii_rear: << i've remapped it to cntrl for decade+, like other sane folk << you know that's a filthy unixism and is going to overwork your already qwerty abused left hand even further? lispm puts control on both sides of spacebar, followed by alt/meta, follwed by other stuff.. [17:11]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 18:49:44; mircea_popescu: "In 2006, he started the CAPSoff campaign to reform the keyboard, starting with the removal of the Caps Lock key. He described this campaign as an example of an online campaign conducted entirely using free services like Wikidot and Google groups. Some new keyboards are starting to drop the Caps Lock key. In September 2006, he launched the "Million Dollar Keyboard" competition for the [17:11]
mircea_popescu phf why the hell woulc you switch ctrl and alt around o.O [17:11]
maqp Maybe. Provided that there are no obligations to where my project should be heading towards. I could use a cup of coffee, but it'll take some time to learn how to secure the account and endpoint [17:12]
mircea_popescu maqp post an address [17:12]
phf mircea_popescu: emacs [17:12]
mircea_popescu i guess. [17:12]
maqp i.e. I'll have to look into secure deployment when generating one. [17:12]
mircea_popescu maqp i suppose you could look into TRB. get yourself V and make your own secure node. [17:13]
mircea_popescu anyway, there's a 1 BTC with your name on it here. if you post an address in this session you got it. if you disconnect before you registered a sig with assbot, you won't be able to get it cuz i won't know it's you. [17:14]
phf it sort of relies on the idea that control is easier to chord with. all the control combos are basic text manipulation stuff, so when i'm emacsing i chord with the thumb opposite of key, i.e. c-a is left pinky a, right thumb control [17:14]
mircea_popescu i keep the pinky on ctrl. which is why making it further in would be inconvenient for me. [17:15]
maqp I won't have to disconnect since it's running on uni server's screen. But you get more assurance on my future bitcoin account signed with my PGP key [17:17]
assbot Search results for '0x085adf061c2b20cd' ... ( ) [17:17]
mircea_popescu !h [17:18]
assbot [17:18]
phf actually i think original tom knight keyboard puts control and meta under pinky by spacing things out [17:18]
phf [17:18]
assbot ... ( ) [17:18]
mircea_popescu maqp basically you go !register 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD [17:20]
mircea_popescu phf aha something like that. i suppose that's really it, move alt to shift or caps or something. tho really caps lock is kinda too high, crosses the fingers. [17:21]
maqp mircea_popescu: What's the prefix in front of pub key fingerprint? [17:24]
maqp 559..d8b [17:25]
ben_vulpes that's the full-length fp [17:25]
mircea_popescu you're using half-fingerprints which is silly. [17:25]
maqp interesting. There doesn't seem to be a setting for that when uploading key to MIT key server [17:26]
mircea_popescu myeah. [17:27]
ben_vulpes it's a 'print from GPG' setting [17:27]
* assbot removes voice from maqp [17:27]
mircea_popescu !up maqp [17:27]
-assbot- You voiced maqp for 30 minutes. [17:27]
* assbot gives voice to maqp [17:27]
ben_vulpes 'keyid format 0xlong' [17:27]
mircea_popescu --fingerprint also does it. [17:27]
ben_vulpes echo "keyid format 0xlong" >> ~/.gnupg.conf [17:27]
ben_vulpes don't actually do that please. [17:28]
punkman !s saneprefs* [17:28]
assbot 4 results for 'saneprefs*' : [17:29]
ben_vulpes > now who's Markus Ottela << lol hey buddhi [17:29]
maqp !register 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD [17:30]
assbot Searching for key with fingerprint: 559FA134DE33AED70DF97D8B085ADF061C2B20CD. This may take a few moments. [17:30]
assbot Key 1C2B20CD / "Markus Ottela " successfully imported. [17:30]
assbot Registration successful. [17:30]
maqp yay [17:30]
mircea_popescu cheers. [17:31]
mircea_popescu !rate maqp 1 diodes [17:31]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: [17:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00056907 = 1.821 BTC [+] [17:31]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.maqp.1:b036a6fcaa5939edc3d055c0d2d45c2e6e0e3c8d50eb416c651e482d87c90d7a [17:31]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for maqp with note: diodes [17:31]
* assbot gives voice to diana_coman [17:31]
mircea_popescu maqp now you can self-voice ; just say !up to assbot in a pm and it'll give you a string to decrypt. pass it with !v and you're voiced. [17:31]
ben_vulpes welcome maqp [17:32]
ben_vulpes you're now a terrorist [17:32]
mircea_popescu no i think he was a terrorist before. [17:32]
ben_vulpes the world just didn't know it yet! [17:32]
ben_vulpes maqp: where does the handle come from? [17:32]
mircea_popescu hey, an interest in actual crypto / security ? DEFINITELY terrorism. [17:33]
* assbot removes voice from Conflict [17:33]
ben_vulpes << mircea_popescu did you ever finalize this? [17:35]
assbot A new Lordship List ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [17:35]
mircea_popescu finalize as in what ? [17:36]
ben_vulpes as in publish your next lordship list [17:36]
* fuc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:36]
mircea_popescu well no, not really april yet. there should prolly be some discussion for a new one huh. [17:36]
ben_vulpes you proposed changes, but i'm not seeing those changes cemented anywhere. [17:36]
maqp Handle is mixed play with markus, nickname maku, how q is pronounced ku and p and q in crypto [17:37]
ben_vulpes right, and given the extremely long lead time for review around here i want to kick the conversation off now [17:37]
mircea_popescu iirc that update got applied or not ? [17:37]
ben_vulpes i dunno i'm not diffing your html with my face [17:37]
mircea_popescu pretty sure it was applied then. [17:37]
mircea_popescu and what, you dunno who the peers are ? for shame! [17:38]
ben_vulpes o wait this'd be the canonical list [17:38]
ben_vulpes [17:38]
assbot assbot WoT Overview - Btc Alpha ... ( ) [17:38]
mircea_popescu well yes [17:38]
ben_vulpes nigga you think i keep shit in my head that computers remember for me? [17:38]
mircea_popescu this shit, you must keep in your head. [17:38]
mircea_popescu computers lie. [17:38]
maqp As far as it goes with cast iron list, it remains to be seen who's now closer to "terrorists" [17:38]
ben_vulpes fair nuff. [17:38]
mircea_popescu maqp wassat ? [17:39]
maqp jokingmate [17:39]
ben_vulpes ;;seen mthreat [17:39]
gribble mthreat was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 15 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 41 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: any problems, lemme know [17:39]
ben_vulpes ;;seen dignork [17:39]
gribble dignork was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 5 hours, 22 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: PeterL: I'm lurking [17:39]
ben_vulpes ;;seen artifexd [17:39]
gribble artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 19 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is. [17:39]
mircea_popescu i wonder how gabriel spoonful's doing these days. [17:40]
maqp So anyway, as far as the TFC goes, NaCl is the first one to provide practical public key crypto [17:41]
ben_vulpes ;;seen diametric [17:42]
gribble diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 1 day, 21 hours, 42 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point. [17:42]
maqp I tried it earlier, but the classic Diffie-Hellman had much less security and a lot longer public key [17:42]
maqp The current version has 72 hex char key you have to manually type to transmitter device; it's similar to manually typing Ricochet/Tox ID [17:43]
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maqp Since it's ECDHE, the security is actually 3072-bit RSA equivalent [17:43]
mircea_popescu !up pussyfreak [17:43]
-assbot- You voiced pussyfreak for 30 minutes. [17:43]
* assbot gives voice to pussyfreak [17:43]
pussyfreak thanks [17:43]
ben_vulpes i propose excising artifexd from the lordship, and i further propose adding phf to it [17:43]
mircea_popescu maqp you actually type hex digits ? [17:43]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $600 before Jul 2016 - [17:44]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no objection ; and in light of the traverser no objection. [17:44]
maqp unfortunaltely that's the only way to prevent nation state from remotely injecting malware to transmitter device after setup [17:44]
mircea_popescu maqp but you could type base64 ? [17:44]
ben_vulpes traverser and *myriad* other contributions. [17:44]
maqp That could work of course, base58 might be better as there's less similar looking chars [17:45]
ben_vulpes also does lordship survive termination of corporeal instantiation? [17:45]
mircea_popescu chetty should also come off, seeing how she's no more. [17:45]
mircea_popescu i don't see how it could. [17:45]
ben_vulpes aha precisely what i was asking. [17:45]
punkman maqp, is that a carter-wegman MAC in your otp version? [17:45]
mircea_popescu maqp right. fewer keystrokes anyway [17:45]
maqp punkman: It's a classical one-time MAC with excess key expenditure. Not a good idea I admit [17:46]
ben_vulpes i also don't quite know what mthreat's doing in there beyond running search and being a known usg antagonist. [17:46]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes well, the search is running ok. this is a thing. [17:46]
ben_vulpes 'running ok' is the criteria? [17:47]
mircea_popescu my thinking, vague as i admit it may be, is that if the guy's service is running, the guy is ok. [17:47]
ben_vulpes i don't intend this as an attack on mthreat, trying only to tease out the logic. [17:47]
mircea_popescu otherwise what, wipe mike_c because he had a kid ? nonsense i say! [17:47]
ben_vulpes yes but /inclusion in the lordship/ for that? [17:47]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.maqp.1:cf9f8d6640cd6e94e71f6be044d2a4c9147ca162e812e5c5b414694eccbb44a1 [17:47]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for maqp with note: I showed him the log, and he joined! I'm on a roll. [17:47]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: dude he has like three [17:48]
mircea_popescu well hes' included already. [17:48]
maqp mircea_popescu: indeed. I just figured the few extra chars were't that important, and that typing upper/lower case might make it slower. I'll have to look into that [17:48]
mircea_popescu maqp so you could do base 37 lol. [17:48]
maqp I wonder if there's a library for that [17:49]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes generally i'm thinking, to make it in people gotta put you in ; but once you're in, yoiu're in, and baring disaster you stay in. [17:49]
maqp But since users are verifying the public key over Signal call [17:49]
maqp having to say "upper case B, lower case c".. is almost as bad as the one used in Telegram [17:50]
maqp "lightish square, a bit darker square, white square"... [17:50]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: if you don't show up in the forum, marshall hoplits on demand, are you still a senator? [17:50]
ben_vulpes hoplites [17:50]
mircea_popescu yup. it's called lacoonism. [17:50]
punkman lol [17:50]
mircea_popescu as long as you do what's expected of you - no case can be brought. [17:51]
maqp But since you don't have to read the public key in Base58 format, it could use two different encodings [17:51]
ben_vulpes izzat a coon pun? [17:52]
mircea_popescu no, it's a historical reference. [17:52]
mircea_popescu WITH an interspersed poon. [17:52]
maqp Base36 would reduce public key length to 56 chars [17:52]
mircea_popescu i mean pun [17:52]
maqp (checksum included) [17:53]
mircea_popescu maqp better than 72 i'd say [17:53]
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maqp indeed. I'll look into that <: [17:53]
mircea_popescu as the saying goes, #b-a presence counts for 30 iq points. [17:53]
ben_vulpes aha! [17:53]
maqp NaCl also lets you pre-share 256-bit XSalsa20-Poly1305 keys. It was the only practical post-quantum solution at the moment [17:55]
punkman I think pronounceable words beat baseX [17:55]
punkman some neat ideas in this paper [17:55]
assbot How to memorize a random 60-bit string | the morning paper ... ( ) [17:55]
maqp It's also a lot easier with NaCl than with OTP/CEV (there's a separate command for adding PSKs) [17:55]
punkman what's CEV? [17:56]
maqp CEV is the cascading encryption version [17:56]
maqp basically it's like OTP but with forward secret cascading encryption [17:56]
mircea_popescu post-quantum ?! [17:56]
ben_vulpes << in the sense that most everything i read here gets filed away and pops up unexpectedly elsewhere. but no, not explicitly. [17:56]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 16:42:15; mircea_popescu: funny application of the entire symbols vs words debate, incidentally. was it deliberate ? [17:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00056335 = 21.2946 BTC [-] {3} [17:56]
* pussyfreak has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [17:56]
maqp Keccak512-CTR - XSalsa20 - Twofish-CTR - AES256-GCM - HMAC-SHA512 - SHA3-512-MAC [17:56]
maqp "because why trust on a single cryptographic primitive" makes a lot more sense than "why use information theoretically secure ciphers" [17:57]
* assbot removes voice from maqp [17:57]
mircea_popescu you ever looked into cramer-shoup ? [17:57]
punkman you can !up yourself now maqp [17:58]
ben_vulpes phf: thank you for the rewriting and clarification on why vdiff doesn't on macos. [17:58]
ben_vulpes << where do the provided explanations fall flat? [17:59]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 16:56:01; ascii_rear: ben_vulpes: good 'v' summary - but i'm still waiting for somebody to crap out a treatise re: the philosophical 'why' of it [17:59]
* assbot gives voice to maqp [18:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36722 @ 0.00056906 = 20.897 BTC [+] {2} [18:01]
maqp works well [18:02]
ben_vulpes well, works. [18:02]
punkman "why use information theoretically secure ciphers" << not really plural there, there is only otp [18:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8428 @ 0.00056968 = 4.8013 BTC [+] [18:02]
ben_vulpes anyways, i now return you to your regularly scheduled programming [18:03]
ben_vulpes the superb owl impends, and the girls need a hand hefting cakes and buckets of wangs [18:03]
shinohai >.> [18:03]
shinohai Super Owl? O.o [18:03]
ben_vulpes supberb* owl [18:03]
ben_vulpes you know [18:04]
shinohai {o,o} [18:04]
shinohai |)__) [18:04]
shinohai -”-”- o rly? [18:04]
ben_vulpes mountain ponies [18:04]
ben_vulpes jungle cats [18:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00056968 = 5.0132 BTC [+] [18:05]
ben_vulpes aka racial discourse kittens [18:05]
punkman "because why trust on a single cryptographic primitive" << because it's nice if the whole thing fits-in-head, and even if you cascade there is still the possibility of meet-me-in-the-middle attacks or I dunno what else [18:05]
maqp punkman: splitting hairs but yeah. Algorithms woul've come closer [18:06]
maqp would've* [18:06]
punkman maqp: what other algorithms are you thinking of that fit the title? [18:08]
maqp one-time MAC [18:08]
* ieephmm ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:08]
punkman ah ok [18:08]
maqp unconditionally secure authentication fits information theoretically secure algorithms (not ciphers) [18:09]
maqp but yeah, my bad <: [18:09]
mircea_popescu !up ieephm [18:10]
-assbot- You voiced ieephm for 30 minutes. [18:10]
* assbot gives voice to ieephm [18:10]
mircea_popescu maqp you ever saw ? [18:11]
assbot B,TMSR~ Block Cipher Competition on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [18:11]
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fluffypony [18:15]
assbot WhatsApp increases group chat size limit to 256 people | News | Lifestyle | The Independent ... ( ) [18:15]
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fluffypony "It's not clear why WhatsApp settled on the oddly specific number, but it'll be good news for those users for whom 100 just wasn't big enough." [18:15]
punkman heh [18:16]
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maqp mircea_popescu: Didn't see that. CEV was built to distribute trust over multiple cryptographic primitives and designers [18:20]
maqp Snowden hinted something about using cascading at Harvard Privacy Synopsium when he was talking with Schneier. Schneier disagreed but it left me wondering whether Snowden's tongue slipped. Cascading was agreed as a good practice in the Schneier's Friday squid blog so I had a go [18:23]
maqp Additive keystreams have very low risk after all and I didn't have to trust single external crypto library [18:24]
maqp That's pretty much the story behind CEV [18:24]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31100 @ 0.00056133 = 17.4574 BTC [-] {4} [18:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00056088 = 3.7859 BTC [-] {2} [18:29]
ben_vulpes what the fuck is this "tongue slipped" [18:29]
ben_vulpes faux patriotism routine makes me fucking retch [18:29]
shinohai One cannot save what is already hopelessly crumbling. [18:33]
maqp AFAIK Snowden hasn't got a degree in math/crypto, but what he said might indicate something in the leaks the journalists chose not to publish. It's a long shot but since there was no harm in cascading... [18:34]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33700 @ 0.00056952 = 19.1928 BTC [+] {5} [19:00]
danielpbarron ;;seen rdymac [19:03]
gribble rdymac was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 26 weeks, 6 days, 8 hours, and 24 seconds ago: Any Rails dev here? [19:03]
danielpbarron !rated rdymac [19:03]
assbot You rated user rdymac on 07-Dec-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: that bobbaer guy [19:03]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.rdymac:7d086a2d0691adca56545a6ba7495e533c0b19805f9eab706a138362b2424cd1 [19:03]
assbot Successfully unrated rdymac [19:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00057165 = 9.8324 BTC [+] [19:05]
maqp ben_vulpes: I think you're confusing patriotism with nationalism [19:06]
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danielpbarron !rated thestringpuller [19:07]
assbot You rated user thestringpuller on 08-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: [19:07]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.thestringpuller.1:fac5f227134ae0795380be7386c83629c975a9201a61ee30e1c88e35be8490b1 [19:07]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for thestringpuller from 1 to 1 with note: wrote the hard fork missile crisis qntra article [19:07]
danielpbarron ;;seen thomas_d [19:09]
gribble thomas_d was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 10 weeks, 2 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: xanthyos ? [19:09]
danielpbarron !rated thomas_d [19:09]
assbot You rated user thomas_d on 24-Nov-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: plays on seals as thomas_dick. [19:09]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.thomas_d:9efb94b8241695ed4e1ac3950d1e04460f8c53d60ca67c29fd41cb7621ecc241 [19:09]
assbot Successfully unrated thomas_d [19:09]
danielpbarron ;;seen napedia [19:10]
gribble napedia was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 51 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: I don't write for SNI. My opinion is that I'd like to see SNI sort it out with economic reasoning and good articles. Pierre's arguments are most persusasive. [19:10]
danielpbarron !rated napedia [19:11]
assbot You rated user napedia on 17-Nov-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: [19:11]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.napedia:236b863d49c33ccac6b3b7a47ecb08b435f106b4d2d9f1dbf751cb9579a851a5 [19:11]
assbot Successfully unrated napedia [19:11]
shinohai danielpbarron is thinning out the herd O.o [19:11]
danielpbarron heh, my list was getting a little too long to fit in my head so to speak [19:12]
guruvan seems like people round here need bigger heads [19:13]
danielpbarron a year is long enough. picking out the ones with old dates mostly [19:13]
danielpbarron ;;seen dionyziz [19:13]
gribble dionyziz was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 17 weeks, 5 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: Bye for now. [19:13]
danielpbarron !rated dionyziz [19:13]
assbot You rated user dionyziz on 06-Oct-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: OpenBazaar, [19:13]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.dionyziz:4934dc5af58b6fd8461a8a34e055cb688a1943e719d247506c3acfded7a455bc [19:14]
assbot Successfully unrated dionyziz [19:14]
* danielpbarron dusts off hands [19:15]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38052 @ 0.00056911 = 21.6558 BTC [-] {2} [19:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14483 @ 0.00057349 = 8.3059 BTC [+] {3} [19:21]
shinohai /me likes how antivurs companies that can't protect computers from viruses think their luck will be better at web browsers. [19:27]
shinohai *antivirus [19:27]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14128 @ 0.00057382 = 8.1069 BTC [+] {2} [19:36]
mircea_popescu guruvan> seems like people round here need bigger heads <<< i thought "the consensus" was b-a heads already too big [19:37]
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ben_vulpes ;;seen naphex [19:52]
gribble naphex was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: . [19:52]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: yo what happened with xotika? [19:53]
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mircea_popescu no idea. [19:53]
ben_vulpes heh anyways i just cracked xotika, picked a random feed and whaddaya know the last frame of the bloomberg video that autoplayed itself is superimposed on this poor girl's face [19:54]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: hurt Naphex' feelings with the camho piece? [19:55]
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ben_vulpes the thing has like 4 girls online atm [19:56]
shinohai !up pussyfreak [19:56]
* assbot gives voice to pussyfreak [19:56]
mircea_popescu uh i dun see it. guy was gonna do some things, then got sick, then came back, then never did the things. i dunno, lost interest or w/e. [19:56]
pussyfreak cheers [19:57]
mircea_popescu i'm not exactly in the business of pushing people to do things. [19:57]
mircea_popescu who're you pussyfreak ? [19:57]
pussyfreak i'm a friend of shinohai [19:57]
pussyfreak bitcoiner [19:57]
shinohai Programs in Java but I won't hold it against him. [19:58]
shinohai pollon. [19:58]
pussyfreak xD [19:58]
pussyfreak mostly nodejs these days [19:58]
pussyfreak thankfully [19:58]
maqp mircea_popescu: I looked at the backlog someone linked me and I wanted to address one thing about TFC using it [19:59]
maqp since you and ascii_rear disapproved [19:59]
mircea_popescu link to the line in log for context ? [19:59]
maqp sure just a second [20:00]
maqp [20:00]
assbot Logged on 07-02-2016 17:03:55; punkman: also uses dbus to talk to pidgin [20:00]
maqp I completely agree with ioerror on that "pidgin is a flock of zero-days flying in formation" [20:01]
maqp However, the entire computer Pidgin is running on is not part of the trusted computing base. [20:01]
mircea_popescu i think we understand that yeah. [20:02]
maqp plaintext input, output, encryption, decryption, key generation and storage happens on separate computers [20:02]
maqp great <: [20:02]
mircea_popescu that was my point : that if he was going to barf over tor, which doesn't actually matter or significantly touch the scheme, might as well pick any other random unrelated item [20:03]
maqp So Pidgin is just a way to transmit ciphertexts from dbus to XMPP server [20:03]
mircea_popescu eg pigdin [20:03]
mircea_popescu but anyway, tor has a miserable reputation here, publicly due to but otherwise ancient. [20:04]
assbot Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:04]
maqp I'll have to read the article. Tor sucks slides indicate it puts up a fight even against FVEY agencies [20:06]
maqp Sure it has it has it's problems. But the only alternative is secure-by-policy VPN [20:08]
maqp I'd prefer secure by design approach any time [20:08]
maqp But if you find Tor insecure and suspect someone is remotely breaching for example your Tails live session [20:09]
maqp Then TFC can really help since Tails and Pidgin only see TFC ciphertexts [20:10]
mircea_popescu aha. [20:10]
mircea_popescu you should prolly also look into the vaporware that still is gossipd. [20:10]
maqp So breaking the anonymity won't reveal content of chat that could compromise their identity [20:11]
maqp Vaporware? [20:11]
mircea_popescu it's this secure communication thing dreamed up by b-a. [20:12]
mircea_popescu !s gossipd [20:13]
assbot 239 results for 'gossipd' : [20:13]
mircea_popescu we've not really got around to doing much practically with it. [20:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36541 @ 0.00056961 = 20.8141 BTC [-] {2} [20:18]
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assbot the_real_bitcoin:nodes [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [20:21]
maqp are you referring to this? [20:22]
assbot GitHub - JosephSWilliams/urcd ... ( ) [20:22]
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hanbot << mircea_popescu, care to better dub the poor thing? [20:24]
assbot Logged on 21-09-2015 11:51:55; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla missing [20:24]
maqp "URC can be as private and secure as military systems" [20:25]
mircea_popescu hanbot iirc that one's dead. [20:25]
mircea_popescu maqp no, it's a not-yet implemented, not-yet fully designed irc/pigdin/mail/etc replacement [20:26]
kakobrekla on that matter, how are you going to search for 'v'? [20:26]
mircea_popescu myeah [20:26]
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kakobrekla or other single letter contraptions. [20:26]
* assbot removes voice from pussyfreak [20:27]
maqp Is there a memo on that design? [20:27]
phf maqp: [20:28]
assbot [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:28]
maqp (IMO you should be spending your efforts on Ricochet or fork it.) [20:28]
maqp Ok, I'll skim it [20:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00056807 = 11.5602 BTC [-] {2} [20:30]
hanbot kakobrekla vspace isn't too horrid, aside from the voice stuff...which i guess makes it an unfortunate choice. at least it's not a heh. [20:31]
hanbot mircea_popescu oic. [20:31]
maqp I see nothing being discussed about forward secrecy or deniability [20:31]
phf maqp: that was the original proposal, that outlines some principles, but there's been a lot of discussion in the logs about it [20:31]
mircea_popescu maqp neither of these are of any interest here. [20:32]
maqp So it's a secure chat with track record? [20:32]
maqp Have you discussed the threat model? [20:32]
mircea_popescu you'll probably get overloaded with reading material, but anyway, the general idea is that only children could possibly imagine anonimity is a sufficient substitute for lack of sovereignity. a reasona . a discussion in more detail is in [20:33]
assbot Anonimity, or the urban versus rural dispute. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [20:33]
maqp The article steers away from infosec discourse faster than CRC32 collision. I skipped to the end-- [20:36]
kakobrekla !s v -!v [20:37]
assbot 0 results for 'v -!v' : [20:37]
kakobrekla muh [20:37]
mircea_popescu well it would, because we don't even agree on what "infosec" is. [20:37]
maqp There's nothing bad being a Moose. It can be hard to be a moose when your family is being tortured in another room when you chose not to use anonymity to hide participation in dissidence movement [20:38]
maqp I think we need both [20:38]
mircea_popescu people with families do not belong in "dissidence movements", providing such exist. [20:38]
maqp it depends on how well they can weigh the threat and what track record the tools of their OPSEC have [20:39]
mircea_popescu no, they philosophically have no business there. once you've decided to settle down and reproduce, you've by that token accepted the world as is, declared your own submission to it and all that. [20:40]
maqp It doesn't have to be a family, it might be a parent, friend, someone we look up to [20:40]
mircea_popescu what's this game of everythingsies, i wanna be tanned but also untanned and sit in the sun and the moon at the same time bla bla. [20:40]
mircea_popescu if you are the sort of person who cares, you are the sort of person who cares. [20:40]
mircea_popescu no amount of "infosec" is going to change the fact that for any discussion on these lines, you go with the sucker herd. [20:41]
mircea_popescu << something like that. [20:42]
assbot Logged on 23-01-2016 03:40:38; mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live. [20:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15097 @ 0.00056651 = 8.5526 BTC [-] {2} [20:45]
maqp Well, we must depend on those who are able to do something then given their current social and societal situation [20:46]
maqp But I fail to see the rat in the sewer, when you're giving the government a finger by bouncing traffic across the globe [20:48]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16845 @ 0.00056083 = 9.4472 BTC [-] {2} [20:48]
mircea_popescu well now you lost me. [20:49]
maqp So the urban vs rural talks about anonymity being a "rat in a sewer" [20:50]
mircea_popescu anyway, the model gossipd is supposed to use is, you pass along traffic to your peers, if you're satisfied that it comes from either youself or a peer. it's a sort of messaging-over-wot. exactly like v works. [20:50]
maqp v works? [20:50]
mircea_popescu v does work yes, it's how bitcoin is installed currently. [20:50]
phf ben_vulpes: ty [20:51]
maqp v? * [20:51]
mircea_popescu << there's a discussion. or if you prefer to see code, [20:51]
assbot V-tronics 101: A gentle introduction to The Most Serene Republic of Bitcoin's cryptographically-backed version control system ... ( ) [20:51]
mircea_popescu [20:51]
assbot ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( ) [20:51]
maqp Can you give a tldr on how ciphertexts propagate in the network? [20:52]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46400 @ 0.00056019 = 25.9928 BTC [-] {5} [20:54]
phf maqp: in case of gossip there's no propagation. it's a p2p where each node, explicitly your peer, makes claims about what was said or heard elsewhere. не веришь, прими за сказку [20:54]
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mircea_popescu i doubt he speaks russian. [20:55]
mircea_popescu let's walk through this maqp [20:56]
maqp sure [20:56]
mircea_popescu i wish to say "Hi" to you. my peers are X, Y and Z. i encrypt "please say Hi for me to maqp" with X, Y, Z pubkeys. [20:56]
mircea_popescu X, Y and Z see this, and if they like me enough, and if they have your pubkey, pass along the Hi to you. [20:56]
mircea_popescu basically the whole system is an implementation of "have you heard what X said", but with computers. [20:58]
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maqp So are you signing the plaintext before you send it to the peer? [20:58]
mircea_popescu you are not signing anything. [20:59]
mircea_popescu the information you receive is only as good as the trustworthyness of your peers. [20:59]
maqp So a friend who holds a grudge on you can change a message? [20:59]
mircea_popescu yup. [20:59]
mircea_popescu moreover, they should. [20:59]
mircea_popescu the power of the system is exactly this : that an attacker doesn't know NOR CAN KNOW if he';s being sybilled to death or not. [20:59]
maqp so a secure communication system with no anonymity between peers, no secrecy, no integrity and no authenticity unless all peers are trustworthy [21:00]
mircea_popescu complete anonimity between peers more than one node removed ; complete secrecy outside of the node group ; no integrity or authenticity outside of the wot trust. [21:01]
mircea_popescu you know, sorta how language works. [21:02]
maqp Why couldn't this work on OTR. I have a OTR messaging with my friend and I ask them to relay a message for me to someone peer has on their contacts? [21:03]
mircea_popescu you don't know who he has in his contacts. [21:03]
maqp Okay, so basically I tell my peer that this message should at some point reach my contact [21:04]
maqp and evetually it will reach them [21:04]
mircea_popescu consider what happened in gossipd when i said the line above : " you don't know who he has in his contacts.". buncha nodes that i know went "we heard mp say so" to their downlist [21:04]
mircea_popescu responses may or may not reach me. [21:04]
mircea_popescu a line going "hey maqp" may or may not reach you. [21:04]
mircea_popescu as far as anyone who wasn't there is concerned, this may as well be a fabrication altogether. and so on. [21:06]
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maqp Why not instead have a public repository of all public keys similar to Tor [21:06]
mircea_popescu because why would i gift upon a would-be atacker that;s really a lame ass kid unable to on hios own merit secure the cost of a proper burial [21:07]
maqp then when you want to send a message to contact, you encrypt the message with the public key and ask users to pass along the ciphertext [21:07]
mircea_popescu a whole and complete list of keys ? [21:07]
maqp Why not? To have even a tiny bit of integrity you need trustworthy peer network [21:08]
mircea_popescu i don't want any integrity outside of what my wot provides. [21:08]
mircea_popescu it's probably a lie anyway. [21:08]
maqp The point is, unless you encrypt the message, anyone might have created the plaintext [21:09]
mircea_popescu exactly. [21:09]
maqp unless you sign* [21:09]
mircea_popescu this is a good thing. [21:09]
maqp you can encrypt [21:09]
maqp and you can be assured that only the recipient will read what you sent [21:09]
maqp so you get secrecy without affecting the anonymity [21:09]
mircea_popescu but i do not wish to be assured this ; moreover this "assurance" you provide is false, in substantially the same manner your idea of "infosec" misses security. [21:09]
mircea_popescu think about it. can i be assured ? maybe the person saves it in plaintext and loses the laptop [21:10]
mircea_popescu what "assured" ? [21:10]
mircea_popescu the only assurance to be had here comes from a gossipd model. where anyone could have written the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows, they probably did. [21:10]
maqp Yeah, I'm afraid there's really no situation this could be used in [21:12]
BingoBoingo heh anyways i just cracked xotika, picked a random feed and whaddaya know the last frame of the bloomberg video that autoplayed itself is superimposed on this poor girl's face << Known bug on Chromium using OS X and Nvidia [21:13]
mircea_popescu maqp i'll use it once it's finally done. but anyway. [21:13]
maqp Security is, and has always been about adding layers, enough layers to make attack unbeneficial to attacker [21:13]
maqp usually, expensive enough [21:13]
mircea_popescu as far as i see that's pseudosecurity. security is and always has been about being secure. [21:13]
mircea_popescu adding layers is how you end up making agincourt famous. [21:14]
maqp There is no way your system can defeat targeted SIGINT monitoring attack, where government drives within a few hundred meters and collects signals emitted by your keyboard cable. [21:15]
mircea_popescu other than by shooting on sight anyone caught doing that. [21:15]
maqp Should we abandon all security because security isn't absoulte? [21:16]
maqp The range with illuminated retro reflectors is up to 10 miles. You going to shoot anybody within that range? [21:16]
mircea_popescu well, there's no "we". but i have no interest in adding layers of sheet metal to my limo when everyone shot got shot getting in or getting out of the limo. [21:16]
mircea_popescu sure. i've been hoping to do some snuff videos of "operatives" caught with gear for years now. [21:17]
maqp Okay. I really hope you end up creating somethign cool. Just be sure to get someone elses opinion too [21:18]
mircea_popescu aha. [21:18]
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BingoBoingo Ah, there's always someone trying to find an easier, softer, way. [21:20]
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maqp It's just that this type of nihilistic reasoning and security t-bones with the standard infosec discourse so badly I can't offer advice. [21:24]
maqp If you're passionate about the project, I hope you dive into it, write a paper on this and prove us wrong. [21:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00056438 = 13.8273 BTC [+] {2} [21:26]
phf who's us? [21:26]
maqp me and whoever might agree with me [21:27]
mircea_popescu yes, that's kinda the point of b-a. it t-bones with standard * discourse so badly, as you put it. [21:27]
phf maqp: there's a number of existing cryptographic primitives that, depending on the fashions, are combined with each other in various obvious ways. we understand your approach, because it's obvious, and there similar existing attempts. you find our approach ~confusing~, maybe there's a hidden point that you're missing. a thread model that you're not quiet grokking. [21:32]
phf *threat [21:32]
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mircea_popescu in fairness, person walks into the republican capitol. there's ALL THIS SHIT. it'd be impossible not to feel even the little bit queasy. [21:35]
mircea_popescu you fuckers've not been idle for the past years. [21:35]
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maqp phf: Well, when you look at history of TLS, you'll notice that modes of operation are not obvious. My approach for TFC is first of it's kind (at least in FOSS world). My approach on a-b is to see whether CIA-triad is fulfilled. If my peer can be tricked into sending messages to infiltrator / network attack that changes a single public key etc. all security is lost [21:39]
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mircea_popescu what's a cia-triad ? [21:40]
maqp confidentiality, integrity, availability [21:40]
mircea_popescu incidentally - your tinfoil suite is not at issue here. and actually to circle back to an earlier point : [21:42]
mircea_popescu you ever thought about selling i dunno, optic diode kits or something ? [21:42]
maqp It's a complicated problem. Let me quote an expert on this [21:42]
maqp [21:44]
assbot One of the reasons I decided not to use optocouplers is a story I got from a fr - ... ( ) [21:44]
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maqp Basically, LEDs and phototransistors might be secure against interdiction attacks, but the problem is finding a properly functioning pair [21:45]
mircea_popescu this is the most ridiculous thing i ever heard. [21:45]
maqp I think it's more safe if people download manuals from the network, and then buy COTS hardware and build data diodes / HWRNG themselves [21:45]
mircea_popescu do you seriously imagine this is how this works ?! [21:45]
maqp What works? [21:46]
mircea_popescu one day someone calls up foxconn and is like hey guise... can i have fridge in cpu ? [21:46]
mircea_popescu at best this is a little bit of pious fraud. [21:47]
maqp Too bad we can't have a mature discussion about this [21:47]
mircea_popescu we can't possibly have a mature discussion about the silly in that dpaste. [21:48]
mircea_popescu understand : bitcoin consists of billions of dollars worth of custom run chips. "we"'d know. [21:48]
mircea_popescu anyway : it'd be better, of course, if users made their own. but users don't make their own, for many reasons, chief among which that they're lazy. do you specifically not want to market a product ? [21:49]
maqp There is absolutely no way to guarantee delivery against interdiction. So unless the device uses unbackdoorable components, then no. [21:51]
mircea_popescu huh ? [21:51]
maqp hardware you get from mail can be backdoored. [21:52]
assbot ... ( ) [21:52]
maqp Oh, that picture is classified Top Secret [21:52]
maqp so if you're emplyed by US gov it's illegal to view it [21:53]
maqp unless you have the clearance [21:53]
mircea_popescu you understand the difference between a gps beacon and some sort of tiny subvertor that'd fit inside an optodiode somehow ? [21:54]
maqp you understand the size of required logic and NSA running best fab in the world? ;) [21:54]
mircea_popescu uh. [21:55]
mircea_popescu define "best". [21:55]
maqp [21:56]
assbot NSA runs best fab in world • The Register ... ( ) [21:56]
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mircea_popescu so you're suspicious that your mail may be subverted, but you don't suspect pravda might be ? [21:56]
mircea_popescu tell you what, the best korea register has a story about how that fatass what's his name runs the best fab in the world. [21:56]
mircea_popescu Kim Jong-un [21:59]
maqp The site uses as a source. If you can disprove their claims, it should make quite a scandal [21:59]
maqp But like I said, all the best. It's 3am I'm off. Night everyone! [22:00]
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mircea_popescu i'll just wait for reality to disprove their claims instead. heck, they're still making the best invisibly-visible aircraft-submarine scooba diving platform, or whatever that was. [22:00]
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phf ;;later tell maqp if i were you i'd split tfc.pdf into separate papers. HWRNG, data diode communication, tfc otp, tfc cev and "rationale", the last one to include all the superfluous NSA shoutouts [23:19]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:19]
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phf ;;later tell maqp on a cursory inspection i couldn't figure out how the protocol decides between otp and cev, how those are identified on the wire, etc. is that up to the user? [23:25]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26850 @ 0.00056963 = 15.2946 BTC [+] {3} [23:26]
phf also having read the paper, i stand by my words [23:26]
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phf for extra lulz paper includes proof of otp perfect secrecy taken from a coursera cryptography course [23:27]
phf it is also filled with the kind of things that will give asciilifeform a severe twitch: guy takes hardware rng, runs it on raspberry pi gpio, whiteness the result, and then xors in /dev/urandom. you know, for the kids! [23:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6230 @ 0.00056331 = 3.5094 BTC [-] {2} [23:34]
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BingoBoingo Ah, the best fab piece is from 2001. Plenty of time since then. [23:41]
* liead (~adlie@unaffiliated/adlai) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:44]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [23:54]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 377.25, vol: 2844.61927419 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 380.107, vol: 4527.00977 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 374.65, vol: 11600.84299638 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 365.0, vol: 0.07478758 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 387.016929, vol: 15976.75890000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 374.5001, vol: 229.92817798 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 380.2821504, vol: 16.85402986 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message) [23:54]
BingoBoingo ;;more [23:55]
gribble average: 381.177517556 [23:55]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb [23:55]
gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2545.0, vol: 15996.97790000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2545.0 [23:56]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [23:58]
gribble Current Blocks: 397314 | Current Difficulty: 1.4411644784734866E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 399167 | Next Difficulty In: 1853 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [23:58]
Category: Logs
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