Forum logs for 04 Dec 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu in the world. [00:00]
asciilifeform i may even have been to that circus. [00:00]
mircea_popescu which is, yes, a kind of circus. [00:00]
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mircea_popescu see, in your own imagination, which is boundless or close enough, you could. [00:00]
mircea_popescu but you're not free, being alive, and in that bound system you don't actually get enough elbow room to really find out. [00:00]
asciilifeform sure as hell. [00:00]
asciilifeform not sure what, if anything, i might be surprised by (on this subject) if my bubble were larger. [00:01]
mircea_popescu most of the things one identifies as intelligence in the field is actually artfulness. [00:01]
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asciilifeform the easiest way to distinguish 'intelligent' and 'well-trained' is to invent something (sufficiently synthetic - as in, requiring grasp of multiple disparate and reasonably deep scientific fields) to apprehend, and then see how much explanation creature requires to grasp it. [00:04]
BingoBoingo [00:05]
assbot How dare the Eric Garner protestors dare try to disrupt a sacred ritual commemorating the birth a man who was murdered by the state. [00:05]
asciilifeform if this is a 'muscle' that can be 'well trained' - this is not a 'margarine', but a 'real butter'. idempotent. [00:05]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform> the easiest way to distinguish 'intelligent' and 'well-trained' is to invent something (sufficiently synthetic - as in, requiring grasp of multiple disparate and reasonably deep scientific fields) to apprehend, and then see how much explanation creature requires to grasp it. << bulb battery wire? [00:05]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: nope. trainable, because kindergarten homework. [00:06]
mircea_popescu so your idea of intelligence is... culture ? [00:06]
asciilifeform talking about actual novel concept. [00:06]
mircea_popescu well done lol. do i win yet ? [00:06]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Sure trainable, yet... some fail to rediscover after learning in kindergarden when skill is summoned for video [00:06]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: try this with one of your pets. tell her 'waveguide motor' and see if she is able to draw one that could, in principle, function. or at least say what such a thing would be. [00:07]
asciilifeform considering the fact that no such item has been built, or, afaik, discussed, other than here by yours truly. [00:07]
asciilifeform and in none too great detail. [00:07]
mircea_popescu kind bad example cause didn't we discuss this here earlier ? [00:07]
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asciilifeform well yes. you may have to devise a similarly peculiar example, if your friends read #b-a. [00:08]
asciilifeform (pets?) [00:08]
* undata has learned that asciilifeforms reproduce by dividing [00:08]
asciilifeform they 'reproduce' by popping out of the zero point vacuum for a little while. [00:09]
BingoBoingo Starting from a drawing of an catecholamine, draw a prototype for a drug that could antigonize the receptor for some sort of catecholamine neurotransmitter. [00:09]
asciilifeform trainable. [00:09]
asciilifeform i worked with a whole mess of folks who could solve this one, for some value of 'solved' [00:09]
BingoBoingo Enough varied "trainable" questions though might approximate a test. Approximation probably necessary because jungle conditions. [00:10]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo how many women do you know that could do this ? and, importantly, out of these how many are not actually in special-school-for-it ? [00:10]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo no but look, you're already conceding defeat. why are you building your castle out of my rocks ? [00:11]
mircea_popescu if you gotta use trainable tests you lost. [00:11]
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asciilifeform BingoBoingo: << in case you missed that thread. [00:11]
assbot Logged on 02-12-2014 15:10:06; asciilifeform: this is a subject that i have a little personal connection with. at one point, i spent almost two years of spare time working on what turned out to be 'fried ice' [00:11]
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BingoBoingo 4-5 prolly. But yeah. May have to concede this point [00:12]
mircea_popescu kinda lulzy when you visit a blog with one of those blinky geomaps, and the only blinky spot is in argentina. [00:12]
asciilifeform and, importantly, out of these how many are not actually in special-school-for-it << ding ding ding - winner [00:13]
mircea_popescu well so if all your intelligence is in fact trained, then what are ye bitching about. [00:14]
asciilifeform depends what means 'trained' [00:15]
asciilifeform if 'trained' is what one can do with a parrot - then, no, intelligence is something quite else [00:15]
mircea_popescu but i did say that's not what's meant. [00:15]
asciilifeform if trained as in what a strong man in a circus does to get strong - then, yes, trained (but note, not every man can become a circus lifter) [00:16]
mircea_popescu trained is what happened to scheherazade. [00:16]
mircea_popescu no, but every man can either become a circus lifter or die trying. [00:16]
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asciilifeform incidentally, the word 'trained' - i found - means something quite else to english speakers than for folks from the sov blok [00:17]
BingoBoingo if trained as in what a strong man in a circus does to get strong - then, yes, trained (but note, not every man can become a circus lifter) << Not every circus need be honest. [00:17]
asciilifeform in the latter, a тренер is the fellow who helps an athlete get.. more athletic. in english world, 'training' is done to dogs and cubicle dwellers [00:17]
decimation asciilifeform: what I find amusing is the common practice is us business to use the word 'training' when they mean 'education' [00:18]
asciilifeform that type of training is referred to as 'дрессировка' [00:18]
mircea_popescu i think this pejorative usage is novel, and not really all that standard yet. [00:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see, we always had separate words for these. [00:18]
mircea_popescu hence well trained pilots, and training ai and so on [00:18]
asciilifeform pilot will readily concede that much of what he knows is trained like a dog is trained [00:19]
mircea_popescu dressage has the unfortunate implication of dress-up in english [00:19]
asciilifeform likewise a good, e.g., sniper [00:19]
asciilifeform muscle memory. [00:19]
mircea_popescu because well, they don't get wtf french is. [00:19]
mircea_popescu much of what YOU know is learned like what a dog learns. specifically, where the fuck the control key is and how to make pretty letters on the screen. [00:19]
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mircea_popescu just, much and important don't map. [00:19]
asciilifeform damn straight! [00:19]
asciilifeform cerebellum has to know [00:19]
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asciilifeform and there's exactly one way to train it [00:20]
asciilifeform hence why ballerinas are trained precisely like circus seals [00:20]
mircea_popescu tell you what. [00:20]
mircea_popescu to the ignorant, there's little difference between circus seal being trained and you sitting in room flipping page after page. [00:20]
mircea_popescu same thing, for the exact reason you don't see much reading on tv. [00:20]
asciilifeform lol [00:21]
mircea_popescu the important parts aren't visible. [00:21]
mircea_popescu which is kind-of why people readily imagine training a woman to think with whip in hand and training a woman to dance whip in hand are the same thing. [00:21]
mircea_popescu they are not. [00:21]
mircea_popescu they may look similar, sure. [00:21]
mircea_popescu the difference is that the first's entirely negative (don't do this. don't do that. don't do the other. do something) while the latter's entirely positive. (do like this and like this and so on) [00:22]
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mircea_popescu as a result, there's nothing fucking scarier than the former known to man. [00:23]
asciilifeform training to think consists of pure 'don't do's? news to me. [00:23]
mircea_popescu what else ? first you gotta teach her to rule over her emotions, then gotta teach her the modes of logical failure of teh brain, on it goes. [00:23]
asciilifeform what of the folks who are their own seal -and- circus trainer? [00:24]
mircea_popescu what the fuck do you think intelligence is other than the ~knowledge~ of what is noise in the psychocrosstalk ? [00:24]
mircea_popescu nothing of them. they may develop myopia in time. [00:24]
asciilifeform teach self to control emotion. and to grasp, e.g., group theor [00:24]
asciilifeform y [00:24]
mircea_popescu one can train to build muscle by himself. one can also train to comprehend the torah by oneself. [00:25]
mircea_popescu nevertheless, experience shows pairs work better, because errors average out rather than compound. [00:25]
mircea_popescu same reason braided rope is stronger than straight rope. [00:25]
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mircea_popescu anyway, thus understood, you will find that a woman trained to be intelligent, irrespective of iq, is quite to your liking, whereas one untrained, equally irrespective of measured iq, is quite unpalatable. [00:26]
mircea_popescu so... whole story really. [00:26]
mircea_popescu da fuck you care whether she can do heisenberg matrix calc in her head or not, really. [00:27]
asciilifeform calculate xxxx ? no. grasp maximally astonishing 'left field' concept without much preparation ? yes. [00:28]
asciilifeform and when you practice this, yes, gets stronger. this is training intelligence - sure. [00:28]
mircea_popescu so then. [00:29]
asciilifeform did establish that we're gnawing on the leather straps of english, i think. [00:29]
mircea_popescu guess so. [00:30]
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asciilifeform one untrained, equally irrespective of measured iq, is quite unpalatable << perhaps here speaking of taming, rather than training ? [00:33]
mircea_popescu i dunno. [00:34]
asciilifeform << mega-lol [00:35]
assbot ClubOrlov: Minimum Viable Sociopathy ... ( ) [00:35]
mircea_popescu "I seem to be doing a lot of hyperproductive things lately: explaining to people how to kill the foul beast of Empire, revolutionizing the way English literacy is taught to both native English speakers and the rest" [00:39]
mircea_popescu mkay, i'll pass. [00:39]
* asciilifeform thinks mr. o meant 'hyperactive' [00:40]
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mircea_popescu dude srsly, intelligent people want to go a direction ? [00:40]
mircea_popescu i guess we progressed past the classical philosophy of either rome or the east. a well. [00:41]
* asciilifeform struggles to make sense of the thing [00:41]
* mircea_popescu perseveres in his ahistoricity. [00:41]
mircea_popescu honestly, i dun see how it's even a kilo-lol. [00:41]
asciilifeform 'What this means in practice, for me at least, is that as soon as it starts looking like I am heading in the direction of acquiring a specific job title or job description, or getting involved in something that might require registration, certification or licensing, then I need to backtrack or head in a different direction for a bit, until everybody loses interest. In doing so I sometimes forgo some opportunities for an increa [00:41]
asciilifeform sed income, but that is the price of freedom.' [00:41]
asciilifeform ^ mr. o is 'having problems' ? [00:41]
mircea_popescu and speaking of which, given that intelligence is to be measured in tsyans, [00:41]
mircea_popescu what can be said of the average policeman ? [00:41]
asciilifeform (as they say in britain) 'a whole policeman!' [00:42]
mircea_popescu lol [00:42]
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mircea_popescu for our esl (english as a single language) friends : мили́ция = mili-tsya [00:43]
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[]bot Bet created: "BTC price at or over $777 before Sept 21st 2015" [00:53]
mircea_popescu why not august 7th lol [00:54]
mircea_popescu << romanian pseudo-tycoon (the sort of derps that live off govt spending in cvasi-socialist states), meanwhile convicted and eventually released from jail, started his own blog. [00:56]
assbot Sorin Ovidiu Vîntu – Blogul Oficial al lui Sorin Ovidiu Vîntu ... ( ) [00:56]
mircea_popescu kinda lulzy. [00:56]
mircea_popescu say a picolulz' worth. [00:56]
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gernika mircea_popescu are you referring to logical fallacies by 'modes of logical failure'? Also, by learning to control your emtions, I assume you don't mean learning to meditate. [01:16]
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mircea_popescu ^ mr. o is 'having problems' ? << maybe he got made, and so now teh fsb is no longer interested in what was a marginal asset anyway ? [01:17]
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BingoBoingo OMG #b-a impoverished someone. [01:17]
mircea_popescu gernika not just, but sure. also, i don't care about form. if meditation works all the better. [01:17]
mircea_popescu if it doesn't work, all the redder. [01:17]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo tis happened afore. [01:18]
BingoBoingo I guess it has. [01:18]
gernika mircea_popescu ah so also cognitive biases. [01:20]
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BingoBoingo !up frankenmint [01:23]
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asciilifeform [01:35]
assbot Dreary Idiocy - Imgur ... ( ) [01:35]
mircea_popescu lol is it yours ? [01:36]
asciilifeform aha. [01:36]
mircea_popescu yeah listen, why is this not a post on loper-os ? [01:36]
asciilifeform because why. [01:36]
mircea_popescu i mean, you just gave imgur some money. why ? [01:36]
asciilifeform it's garbage. [01:36]
mircea_popescu uh. [01:36]
decimation asciilifeform: is it fcc class b licensed_ [01:37]
mircea_popescu i'd rather read it on your platform than on some bezzlatron platform. is that so bad ? [01:37]
asciilifeform lol. i suppose my site can't get any more off topic than already is. [01:37]
mircea_popescu right ? [01:37]
mircea_popescu off-topic is an idiocy anyway. you're writing it, you're the topic, how the fuck could it be "off-topic" [01:38]
mircea_popescu fuck em. they don't get to say what the topic is. [01:38]
BingoBoingo Isn't off topic what's been sustaining it these last few years, and even off topic still makes a case for loper [01:38]
mircea_popescu they'd love to, of course, for the obvious reason. unsheathe that. [01:38]
decimation or is it class A(industrial?) [01:38]
asciilifeform decimation: i can't possibly guess [01:39]
decimation no manual? [01:39]
asciilifeform manual says 'class a' [01:40]
mircea_popescu it does kinda look like a sprinkler... [01:40]
asciilifeform one of these days i buy something that doesn't have to be vivisected to make it go. [01:40]
mircea_popescu a dog ? [01:42]
asciilifeform l0l [01:42]
* asciilifeform beginning to think that networking hardware that behaves sanely out of the box was banned, and no one told him [01:42]
decimation yeah there's no way it could pass class B without a shield or metal case [01:43]
asciilifeform metal case on wireless access gizmo? lol [01:43]
* BingoBoingo imagines if asciilifeform became diabetic he'd keep his own pig for the insulin. [01:43]
decimation sure, [01:43]
decimation only need to have antenna outside, and maybe only partially that [01:43]
asciilifeform funnily, i have a circa-1998 wireless router, that has precisely this form [01:44]
* BingoBoingo would probably keep his own insulin pig as well, can't judge [01:44]
asciilifeform (not in service because laughably small flash disk, not linuxifiable) [01:44]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but you can't run it because bus speed right ? [01:44]
decimation asciilifeform: the FCC cracks down on routers with an easily accessible antenna socket [01:44]
mircea_popescu decimation what's that ? [01:44]
decimation for fear that 'citizens' might make use of them in a way they see fit [01:44]
asciilifeform decimation: most of the consumer trashware have external antennae sockets, wtf [01:44]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: the FCC cracks down on routers with an easily accessible antenna socket << What, like my laptop wifi card has?? [01:44]
decimation yes, but the fig leaf that covers this is that they are typically 'reverse threaded' from the standard socket [01:45]
asciilifeform even my local isp ships router with two screw-socket antennae [01:45]
BingoBoingo the internal mini-pci-e deal with the adorable micro-coax or whatever they call it [01:45]
decimation everyone can tell themselves that they couldn't possibly buy a reverse-thread sma connector [01:45]
mircea_popescu i unscrewed so many antennae off wired-only "wireless-capable" routers... [01:45]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: you'll notice these in the photo [01:45]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Still only solves the antenna rather than sanity problem [01:46]
mircea_popescu decimation alternatively, you could hit it once with a hammer and make contacts directly eh [01:46]
decimation << "In addition to specialized interfaces which are relatively new to the coaxial market, such as DMX, MC Card, MHF, there are variations on standard RF connectors styles which satisfy FCC Part 15 and 802.11 requirements. The most popular method used to achieve compliance has been to create reverse polarity, or gender, versions of BNC, MCX, MMCX, N, SMA, SMB, SSMB and TNC [01:46]
decimation connectors. You will also find reverse, or left-handed thread versions of N, SMA and TNC connectors." [01:46]
assbot WiFi Interface Identifier ... ( ) [01:46]
decimation the FCC demands that you reverse thread the connector so you couldn't plug your 1 watt router into a 30 dB amplifier [01:47]
asciilifeform i mean, back to the story, all i had to do is reach across desk and grab a ttl serial octopus. but what are folks supposed to do who don't have one? [01:47]
mircea_popescu derp [01:47]
decimation asciilifeform: was there actually a serial console present or was it a bootloader? [01:47]
asciilifeform decimation: 'ebay' bursting with chinese amps [01:47]
mircea_popescu this is like the dumbest thing i ever heard lol. [01:47]
decimation asciilifeform: they throw in trash and burn more money [01:47]
mircea_popescu srsly, you can't plug it in because it's reverse threaded ?! [01:48]
decimation mircea_popescu: of course, one can buy such connectors [01:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he did say 'fig leaf' [01:48]
decimation but it 'satisfies' usg requirements to make it 'difficult' [01:48]
mircea_popescu so he did. [01:48]
decimation it would be nearly unbelievable if usg weren't involved [01:48]
mircea_popescu lol [01:48]
decimation there are many such capitulations to reality involved with usg 'regulation' [01:49]
mircea_popescu maybe this principle could be extended. [01:49]
asciilifeform ahahaha and the ethernet on this thing flickers in and out. [01:49]
mircea_popescu for instance : through a surgical intervention mandatory in schools for girls aged 12, they could reverse the asshole and vulvar opening. [01:49]
asciilifeform such quality! amazing company! [01:49]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [01:49]
mircea_popescu abstinence-only sex ed WIN! [01:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there was, iirc, a record of this very procedure being performed on a woman in (?) mexico [01:50]
decimation well, I'm certain that some organ of usg would claim victory under such conditions [01:50]
mircea_popescu what could possibily. [01:50]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: was cancerous/amputated colon, if i recall, and this novel rerouting was tried. [01:51]
mircea_popescu well... colonostomy bags aren't any fun. [01:51]
* asciilifeform does not remember source of this tale, don't ask [01:51]
* assbot gives voice to joecool [01:53]
decimation here's the exact usg 'regulation' << "An intentional radiator shall be designed to ensure that no antenna other than that furnished by the responsible party shall be used with the device. The use of a permanently attached antenna or of an antenna [01:53]
assbot FCC Part 15 Radio Frequency Devices - RF Cafe ... ( ) [01:53]
decimation that uses a unique coupling to the intentional radiator shall be considered sufficient to comply with the provisions of this section." [01:53]
decimation this is literally the bread-and-butter of the usg regime [01:53]
mircea_popescu so silly. [01:53]
mircea_popescu basically, they made a ruling for a purpose. then industry lobbied on the basis of cost. [01:53]
mircea_popescu then they... mediated it. [01:53]
joecool hey mp, can you make assbot only use notices instead of msg? I know the ddos is a pain in the ass but if someone is unlikely to respond to notice, they are unlikely to respond to privmsg as well [01:53]
mircea_popescu average gender of resulting regulation ? "martian". [01:54]
mircea_popescu joecool i dun has anything to do with it, but kakobrekla might be able to help. [01:54]
asciilifeform collectors of small arms in usa have similarly entertaining stories about gotchas, thick tomes of peculiar rules, loopholes. [01:54]
decimation of course there is a small cottage industry selling reversed parts [01:54]
joecool mircea_popescu: sry, thought you maintained assbot... i'll bug kakobrekla when he's around [01:55]
mircea_popescu are the pms annoying ? [01:55]
joecool yes [01:55]
asciilifeform satan preserve us, i can hear that thing's cpu load through inductor whine from across a table. [01:56]
BingoBoingo Would be much better if included random kako jokes. kako jokes are the best [01:56]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform add shields :D [01:56]
decimation asciilifeform: how did get from 'working ttl serial port' to running bootrom? [01:56]
asciilifeform decimation: it was booting all along, but not usefully (no way to speak to it) [01:57]
decimation ah [01:57]
decimation asciilifeform: maybe you can do aes on it and try to use a microphone to do side-channel [01:57]
decimation that would be worthy of loper [01:57]
asciilifeform that would be worthy of first year undergrad. [01:57]
asciilifeform because - old news. [01:57]
decimation hehe [01:57]
asciilifeform it's - homework. [01:57]
mircea_popescu stop giving stan stuff to do. [01:58]
* asciilifeform is behind on his 'homework' as it is! [01:58]
joecool mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter too much though, i like this channel [01:58]
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BingoBoingo !up diatonic [01:59]
decimation !up diatonic [01:59]
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mircea_popescu !up diatonic [01:59]
-assbot- You voiced diatonic for another 30 minutes. [01:59]
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mircea_popescu what, is it like a festival ? [01:59]
decimation !up Luke-Jr [01:59]
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BingoBoingo !up Yours [01:59]
decimation !up xinxiwang [02:00]
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joecool luke should talk more, that's always entertaining [02:00]
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xinxiwang [02:00]
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assbot South Park How Chinese People view to the Japanese - YouTube ... ( ) [02:00]
joecool !up diatonic [02:01]
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decimation xinxiwang: do you often encounter gerkas on patrol in sg? [02:01]
xinxiwang i don’t have a car here. [02:01]
decimation well, on the street? [02:01]
xinxiwang gerkas on patrol? [02:02]
xinxiwang what’s that?