Forum logs for 02 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15010 @ 0.00055706 = 8.3615 BTC [-] {2}	[00:01]
mod6	ok ~compiled~	[00:03]
mod6	Bitcoin version 0.9.99.98 << good	[00:04]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: it is a very interesting proposal.	[00:11]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53222 @ 0.00055706 = 29.6478 BTC [-] {2}	[00:12]
mod6	ok looking good - asciilifeform, check it out: http://dpaste.com/18G1QV6.txt	[00:14]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pvewuh )	[00:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66800 @ 0.00055706 = 37.2116 BTC [-]	[00:16]
ben_vulpes	is this the sort of thing that must be implemented as a fork of the existing chain?	[00:17]
*	ben_vulpes not terrifically intimate with fork dynamics in practice, having flatly ignored proposals to do so until now	[00:17]
*	ben_vulpes now actually very curious as to how this sort of thing would work at the code level in practice. if blockheight < forkheight, use old validation rules, else use new?	[00:19]
adlai	ben_vulpes: did you see my comment? this could be implemented today by miners already and you wouldn't have known of it	[00:20]
*	danielpbarron recalls Mircea saying something like "if you're gonna fork, might as well start with new genesis block"	[00:20]
ben_vulpes	i do not think i've gotten to your comment yet adlai. on trilema?	[00:20]
adlai	ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116398	[00:21]
assbot	The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvfxSY )	[00:21]
danielpbarron	!s fork genesis	[00:22]
assbot	5 results for 'fork genesis' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fork+genesis	[00:22]
ben_vulpes	aha	[00:22]
danielpbarron	^ there you go :)	[00:22]
ben_vulpes	i believe that i understand how it could be implemented softly, adlai, but it doesn't /count/ until it's verified.	[00:22]
adlai	correct, same as how extension block (adam back's original name for what morphed into the "segwit softfork") payments don't /count/ until you withdraw them to cold, hard, bitcoin	[00:23]
ben_vulpes	yeah i never followed that stupidity in depth	[00:25]
ben_vulpes	jurov: i committed violence to asciilifeform's original v in a harebrained attempt to add tests, was roundly caned for the violence, left his implementation to him and hared off to reimplement in cl.	[00:26]
adlai	ben_vulpes: fwiw i still believe it's a bad idea to discourage this kind of "speculative soft fork"... it makes it easier for experimenters to put their money where their mouth is, and puts on a good show for "conservatives" who remain in plain good old Bitcoin	[00:28]
ben_vulpes	adlai: sure!	[00:30]
*	adlai personally will be slightly amused if LN goes live on SegwitCoin, and sees zero volume because nobody who spends btc actually needs micropayments	[00:31]
adlai	(there'd go all the talk about capacity cliffs...)	[00:32]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes made for some interesting discussion at any rate.	[00:32]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34500 @ 0.00055704 = 19.2179 BTC [-] {3}	[00:33]
mircea_popescu	adlai this fear is part of why ln bla bla stays vaporware.	[00:41]
mircea_popescu	but that aside, should they somehow find the money/mit to pull an ethereum : spam is easy and cheap.	[00:42]
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adlai	part of the just beauty is that spamming extension blocks is cheaper than spamming Bitcoin	[00:46]
adlai	so along with a fee market, we also get a spam market	[00:47]
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asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393662 << neato mod6	[00:54]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 03:13:21; mod6: ok looking good - asciilifeform, check it out: http://dpaste.com/18G1QV6.txt	[00:54]
asciilifeform	http://qntra.net/2016/02/popescu-offers-condition-for-accepting-future-hard-forks/#comment-44526 << lulzy	[00:55]
assbot	Popescu Offers Condition For Accepting Future Hard Forks \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1KmM2Tf )	[00:55]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393606 << perhaps i ought to explain, i use the expiration feature so that my key can get garbagecollected out of heathendom when i finally transition to new one, instead of working as a honeypot for hitler	[00:58]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 02:03:04; jurov: generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out?	[00:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66617 @ 0.00055689 = 37.0983 BTC [-] {2}	[01:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143771 @ 0.00055557 = 79.8749 BTC [-] {4}	[01:13]
BingoBoingo	Our Nigerian prince appears to be back	[01:16]
mircea_popescu	which one of you is gbanga after all ?	[01:24]
mircea_popescu	also BingoBoingo maybe redirect the fellow to trilema comments where the matter of "jiggling the merkle tree" is well set to rest.	[01:24]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61696 @ 0.00056231 = 34.6923 BTC [+] {4}	[01:25]
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BingoBoingo	done http://qntra.net/2016/02/popescu-offers-condition-for-accepting-future-hard-forks/#comment-44537	[01:28]
assbot	Popescu Offers Condition For Accepting Future Hard Forks \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1SA1E71 )	[01:28]
mircea_popescu	kinda lulzy how this got all the self-important know-nothings off their ass and flailing wildly.	[01:32]
mircea_popescu	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/43qisj/paul_sztorc_on_twitter_it_seems_that_mircea/czka9we << check out this derp.	[01:33]
assbot	nullc comments on Paul Sztorc on Twitter: "It seems that [Mircea Popescu] has internalized Bitcoin's full node externality. Initial reaction: "Wow."" ... ( http://bit.ly/1SA2hxm )	[01:33]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24750 @ 0.00056569 = 14.0008 BTC [+]	[01:40]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ?	[01:42]
mircea_popescu	+ return error(SBLK "block loading from disk failed"); << this soulds like SERR and so does + printf(SWAR SBLK "found bad block %s at height %d ",	[01:43]
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mircea_popescu	+ printf(SWAR SWAL "repairing tx version %d ", wtx.fTimeReceivedIsTxTime); << any reason this lost the hash ?	[01:45]
mircea_popescu	- printf(" "); ahahaha holy shit already.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	i had forgotten that was in there. suddenly got flashbacks of ancient debug.log layout.	[01:47]
mircea_popescu	+ printf(SINF SBLK "loading block index "); << this should show the nStart value ; so should all these timed items. like + printf(SINF SADR "loading addresses ");	[01:48]
adlai	mircea_popescu: biggest derpitude is that we're discussing on irc a reddit conversation about a tweet linking to a blog	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	well what can you do, when the "real cryptographers" are involved, you're stuck.	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	i wonder if this is a step up or a step down from power ranger.	[01:49]
adlai	;;later tell ben_vulpes see what happens when commenters can't find the comment box!	[01:49]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[01:49]
mircea_popescu	;;google victor victoria	[01:50]
gribble	Victor Victoria (1982) - IMDb: ; Victor Victoria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Victor/Victoria (musical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:	[01:50]
mircea_popescu	"a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be..."	[01:50]
danielpbarron	that Paul Sztorc guy is in Connecticut	[01:51]
danielpbarron	real close to me	[01:51]
mircea_popescu	small world eh.	[01:53]
mircea_popescu	+ return error(SBLK "block %s doesn't match index", GetHash().ToString().c_str()); << it really doesn't work if you don't use the flags!	[01:55]
mircea_popescu	+ return error(SBLK "pow %s work below minimum (%u)", hash.ToString().c_str(), nBits); << bunches of these.	[01:55]
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mircea_popescu	+ strError += strprintf("tx requires a tx fee of at" << this is logging exempt ?	[02:02]
thestringpuller	printf is da best way to debug!	[02:04]
mircea_popescu	so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart).	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	as annoying as b c etc might be they're mostly minor and could be fixed by a further patch. a however is a killer, and colors both b and c in similar tones, because it betrays the fundamental problem with this patch : it doesn't flow from a structured approach given in depth consideration, but merely from your desire to help and impressive stamina.	[02:08]
mircea_popescu	these are both very nice things, and the good news is that it's much easier for you to become very useful than it is for alf to grow another arm. so don't take this as a censure per se. does all that make sense ?	[02:08]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00055607 = 35.8109 BTC [-] {5}	[02:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61585 @ 0.00056669 = 34.8996 BTC [+] {4}	[02:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98172 @ 0.00056706 = 55.6694 BTC [+] {2}	[02:24]
BingoBoingo	In derplandia: Cruz 28% Trump 24% Rubio 23%	[02:24]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	no way, someone is ahead of trump ?!	[02:25]
mircea_popescu	how did that happen	[02:25]
BingoBoingo	Or in the numbers that matter: Convention Delegates > 6 to Cruz 5 each to Trump and Rubio, one to Carson	[02:25]
BingoBoingo	Blizzard in Iowa today	[02:26]
BingoBoingo	Trump lost to Bible belt guy and tied Establishment guy	[02:26]
mircea_popescu	weird.	[02:26]
BingoBoingo	Trump was always just Manistream media noise and some derps online	[02:27]
BingoBoingo	But Blizzard keeping Trumpets at home likely played a part	[02:28]
mircea_popescu	so he's going away huh ?	[02:29]
mircea_popescu	mommentum player, has little to offer other than "nobody can beat me for i'm the king rarara"	[02:29]
BingoBoingo	He's going to continue kicking and screaming consistently drawing 25%-30% until he quits in May or August	[02:29]
BingoBoingo	Momentum player, media likes he because they are mostly Democrats	[02:30]
mircea_popescu	aha	[02:30]
BingoBoingo	But if Trump keeps drawing that large a chunk while Cruz and Rubio fight it out a Brokered convention is still possible.	[02:31]
BingoBoingo	Then again in 2012 Santorum won Iowa.	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	myeah.	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	cruz has ~0 chances of being president.	[02:31]
BingoBoingo	Prolly going to be Bernie	[02:31]
mircea_popescu	is this the black doctor guy ?	[02:32]
BingoBoingo	Bernie's the Vermont socialist	[02:32]
BingoBoingo	He's going to pull the Obama on Clitler again	[02:32]
mircea_popescu	ah ok.	[02:32]
BingoBoingo	And moar Mormom insurrections in the west are likely	[02:33]
BingoBoingo	ATM Sanders and Clinton are nearly tied in Iowa and could take a while to sort out that contest	[02:34]
BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/694394283747446788	[02:39]
BingoBoingo	"@HillaryClinton Shouldn't you be in jail for #WhiteWater" << My daily dose of social media trolling	[02:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29843 @ 0.0005637 = 16.8225 BTC [-] {2}	[02:39]
BingoBoingo	In other main-ish stream lulz https://www.rawstory.com/2016/02/us-make-rape-legal-group-plans-worldwide-anti-woman-event-in-43-countries/	[02:44]
assbot	US ‘make rape legal’ group plans worldwide anti-woman event in 43 countries ... ( http://bit.ly/1QW0YsF )	[02:44]
BingoBoingo	Anyways, Trumps future is as a sort of Alternative Pat Buchanan	[02:45]
BingoBoingo	Anyways I have still not seen any reason to hedge by BitBet on Rubio winning the nomination.	[02:49]
adlai	shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"?	[02:51]
*	adlai doesn't even understand enough probability theory to phrase question properly	[02:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00056573 = 28.2865 BTC [+]	[02:51]
adlai	s/average/below-$1/ might be more accurate	[02:55]
BingoBoingo	There's always risk	[02:56]
adlai	on further thought, the risk of doing this on bitbet is that "late leeches" will squeeze out your profits from the bets that should have covered your losses	[02:57]
adlai	fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this	[02:59]
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mats	i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud	[03:10]
mats	anybody know what i'm talking about here?	[03:10]
adlai	!s facebook	[03:11]
assbot	936 results for 'facebook' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=facebook	[03:11]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00056573 = 16.7456 BTC [+]	[03:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00056522 = 20.7153 BTC [-] {2}	[03:21]
mod6	asciilifeform: hey, ok posted those two to the mailing list:	[03:22]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000205.html	[03:22]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Programmable Version String - Integrated Fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1SV8ANu )	[03:22]
mod6	http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000206.html	[03:23]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Regrind of malleus_mikehearnificarum vpatch ... ( http://bit.ly/1SV8Bkr )	[03:23]
mod6	give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.	[03:23]
mod6	thanks in advance!	[03:23]
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mats	also looking for the discussion re: credit, not barter, being 'invented' first	[04:11]
punkman	mats, was it szabo's "The Origins of Money" perhaps?	[04:17]
mats	I haven't read this paper yet, so I may be recalling a discussion of it	[04:24]
punkman	"Debt: the first 5000 years" also discusses that point iirc	[04:25]
punkman	http://techcrunch.com/2016/02/01/alphabet-becomes-the-most-valuable-company-in-the-world/	[04:34]
assbot	Alphabet Becomes The Most Valuable Public Company In The World \| TechCrunch ... ( http://bit.ly/1PcrFos )	[04:34]
punkman	"coming in at a market cap $558 billion after jumping about 8% after the company reported its fourth-quarter earnings, and passing Apple, which sits at a market cap of $535 billion."	[04:35]
mats	thanks punkman	[04:38]
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BingoBoingo	https://i.imgur.com/Xa0ymCf.png	[04:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JUKm3t )	[04:39]
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punkman	http://bramcohen.livejournal.com/73318.html	[04:47]
assbot	Patience Diff Advantages - Bram Cohen's Journal ... ( http://bit.ly/1JUKK1H )	[04:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00056596 = 6.6217 BTC [+]	[04:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056362 = 11.6669 BTC [-] {3}	[05:01]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00056497 = 1.8644 BTC [+] {2}	[05:08]
punkman	https://github.com/hut8labs/diffscuss	[05:09]
assbot	hut8labs/diffscuss: Code reviews. In plain... - GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1m9P7uj )	[05:09]
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polarbeard	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393709 << error() adds flag SERR by default: http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_better_log_messages#selection-1347.0-1375.1	[05:18]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 04:41:22; mircea_popescu: polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ?	[05:18]
assbot	polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( http://bit.ly/1PvOZkA )	[05:18]
polarbeard	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393730 << I don't see how single quotes are a problem in practice, what valuable datapoints?	[05:23]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 05:08:04; mircea_popescu: so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart).	[05:23]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14317 @ 0.00056482 = 8.0865 BTC [-] {3}	[05:49]
mats	https://lwn.net/Articles/662953/	[05:50]
assbot	Linux Kernel Library [LWN.net] ... ( http://bit.ly/1o1jO6l )	[05:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11630 @ 0.00056978 = 6.6265 BTC [+] {3}	[06:05]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00056733 = 5.106 BTC [-] {3}	[06:07]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5630 @ 0.00056982 = 3.2081 BTC [+] {2}	[06:12]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00056582 = 6.9596 BTC [-] {2}	[06:14]
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BingoBoingo	mats: That was a disappointment. I was hoping to see someone store linux kernel as dead tree on shelves	[06:18]
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BingoBoingo	!up AaronvanW	[06:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00056036 = 5.2674 BTC [-] {5}	[06:35]
BingoBoingo	!up Nicknaem	[06:36]
*	assbot gives voice to Nicknaem	[06:36]
Nicknaem	i actually have nothing to say atm, was just checking out the channel :)	[06:37]
Nicknaem	Greatly enjoyed some of the pieces on trilema, just wanted to see whats going on here	[06:39]
BingoBoingo	Cool	[06:41]
BingoBoingo	Just poke someone if you'd like to talk once this voicing expires	[06:41]
Nicknaem	sure thx	[06:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00056915 = 12.8059 BTC [+] {3}	[06:47]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00056166 = 9.0989 BTC [-] {2}	[07:05]
polarbeard	PeterL: a getpeerinfo backport patch for trb: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/db7909cba265c3c50c02	[07:06]
assbot	polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JUZhdH )	[07:06]
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punkman	polarbeard: not bad, which version did you backport from?	[07:08]
polarbeard	the nearest, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/1006f0707e34f8903f247195dabd86243ae61f05	[07:09]
assbot	RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q715gi )	[07:09]
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punkman	https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/7456	[07:18]
assbot	Suggestion: Marking of commits that fix vulnerabilities · Issue #7456 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2wH97 )	[07:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00056166 = 4.2967 BTC [-]	[07:22]
polarbeard	punkman: interesting, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3A%22Priority+High%22+is%3Aclosed	[07:23]
assbot	Pull Requests · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JV1hTk )	[07:23]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00056166 = 2.4713 BTC [-]	[07:40]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18860 @ 0.00055872 = 10.5375 BTC [-] {5}	[08:03]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9549 @ 0.0005563 = 5.3121 BTC [-] {2}	[08:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00055824 = 1.6189 BTC [+] {2}	[08:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0005563 = 3.8385 BTC [-]	[08:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11826 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5788 BTC [-]	[09:12]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5365 BTC [-]	[09:43]
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asciilifeform	;;later tell mod6 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393787 << these look ok, i will test and sign when i get a chance	[10:03]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[10:03]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.	[10:03]
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BingoBoingo	Oh, princessnell returns with links to qntra https://reason.com/archives/2016/02/02/bitcoin-is-not-dead-but	[10:09]
assbot	Bitcoin Isn't Dead—But It Is Threatened by Tech Infighting - Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/205CE8o )	[10:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.0005563 = 19.5261 BTC [-] {2}	[10:15]
BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/VerminSupreme/status/694373907411931136	[10:16]
*	asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket	[10:16]
mod6	<+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393787 << these look ok, i will test and sign when i get a chance << cool, thx!	[10:18]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror.	[10:18]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59000 @ 0.0005563 = 32.8217 BTC [-]	[10:23]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Is there any other way to vote that doesn't involve doodling horsecocks on the ballot?	[10:23]
BingoBoingo	In other news, the crap weather that lifted Rubio to a third place victory in Iowa has made it here. At least it's too warm to freeze here... so far...	[10:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00056158 = 9.94 BTC [+] {4}	[10:26]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00056447 = 2.9352 BTC [+]	[10:33]
mircea_popescu	!up hdbuck	[10:35]
-assbot-	You voiced hdbuck for 30 minutes.	[10:35]
*	assbot gives voice to hdbuck	[10:35]
BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all	[10:37]
gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 373.72, vol: 6176.05880644 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 377.592, vol: 5769.2799 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 372.17, vol: 15590.4673899 \| CampBX BTCUSD last: 379.99, vol: 2.33567734 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 380.0912, vol: 30229.46150000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 375.56008, vol: 389.01040813 \| Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 376.9125, vol: 55.11831967 \| Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)	[10:37]
BingoBoingo	;;more	[10:37]
gribble	377.012769104	[10:37]
BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats	[10:37]
gribble	Current Blocks: 396310 \| Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 \| Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 \| Next Difficulty In: 841 blocks \| Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 0 hours, 51 minutes, and 44 seconds \| Next Difficulty Estimate: None \| Estimated Percent Change: None	[10:37]
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mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393769 << yes, just as soon as that someone either a) gets out of childhood by putting some scratch together or b) gets out of senility by understanding which side the future's buttered on.	[10:39]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 05:50:41; adlai: shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"?	[10:39]
mircea_popescu	as the ancient rule says, "people will do the sane thing just as soon as all alternatives have been exhausted".	[10:40]
BingoBoingo	Well, first they gotta make a Jim Crow Grand Lightning Network on top of BitBetBet results.	[10:46]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393775 << http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-cancel-your-bitbet-bet/ there's mathematical reasons you always derive a benefit from an odds differential.	[10:47]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 05:58:13; adlai: fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this	[10:47]
assbot	How to cancel your BitBet bet. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VGAFGn )	[10:47]
mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393776 http://trilema.com/2012/advertising-on-digitalpoint/ ? or http://trilema.com/2015/you-know-what-gets-no-airplay-unflattering-truth/ ? or http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/#footnote_3_62044 ? really tons of stuff, will need to be moar specific, this is just scratching the surface.	[10:49]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 06:09:12; mats: i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud	[10:49]
assbot	Advertising on DigitalPoint on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VGB9fu )	[10:49]
assbot	You know what gets no airplay ? Unflattering truth. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VGB8ID )	[10:49]
assbot	MiniGame (S.MG), June 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1VGB9wb )	[10:49]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo totally that lol.	[10:49]
PeterL	for all the media trumpets who gets the "WIN!!" in each state, many of the primaries are not winner-take-all, so multiple candidates come away with delegates from each state	[10:49]
PeterL	so with iowa delegates getting split between candidates, it really did not change the election at all	[10:50]
BingoBoingo	PeterL yes. Hilary ended up turning a vote tie into a 6 delegate advantage late last night on... COIN FLIPS	[10:50]
PeterL	maybe we should make it easier and skip the voting and go straight to a coin flip to decide the presidency?	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	i would expect there's a lot of power brokering going on there.	[10:51]
mircea_popescu	all those nobodies on capitol hill gotta derive their delusions of relevancy somehow.	[10:51]
BingoBoingo	It's amazing 6 delegates were decided by coin flip and every coin flip was resolved in CLitler's favor	[10:51]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[10:51]
PeterL	but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster	[10:52]
PeterL	not that Sanders is much better of a candidate	[10:52]
mircea_popescu	ftr, i may be the only one left, but i don't think she's anything of a monster.	[10:52]
PeterL	depends on who you ask, I guess	[10:53]
PeterL	I certainly don't trust her	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	the woman is intelligent and determined. certainly a lot less stupid than it is average for the us. she's no bush nor any kind of redditobama.	[10:53]
mircea_popescu	PeterL you're not supposed to trust your ruler. you're supposed to feel threatened by them, i guess, or fear them, if you don't have a readier way to express submission in your own mind.	[10:54]
PeterL	I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	people not trusting politico actually makes for one of the best recommendations they could have.	[10:54]
mircea_popescu	in what sense help you ?	[10:54]
BingoBoingo	but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster << THis is how the GOP sank in 2008 with the lich, and 2012 with Rommit	[10:54]
PeterL	at least Sanders is honest about what he is going to do	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	which is ~nothing.	[10:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00056447 = 1.383 BTC [+]	[10:55]
PeterL	well, some candidates (Paul) might get in my way/wreck the country less than others	[10:55]
mircea_popescu	the country is terminal tho. it's falling over on its own anyway.	[10:56]
PeterL	but I figure some candidates are going to make it worse than others, and I think Clinton would be one of the worst	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	anyway. in my detached view, this presidency is important for purely exterior reasons. the us, as it is, is irrelevant to everyone, including itself. the future of the us is mostly determined by the management of the image of the us, which is well divorced from the us of today, and a sort of future tendril of the us of 1970.	[10:57]
BingoBoingo	I endorse parting the thing out and starting over.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	there will come a major pass with china, probably in the next five years.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	on the basis of how the american handles himself there, the immediate future is decided.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	for that task, she's probably the best hope.	[10:57]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo under foreign management ?	[10:58]
PeterL	Split it up by state? Let each state decide where they want to go?	[10:58]
PeterL	Or dissolve all the states and start over from scratch?	[10:58]
mircea_popescu	this is the one bit us folk are too blinded by their own internal narcissus to grasp. you don't get to retry on your own as a failed state. you get put under the management of your neighbours, because you suck. it happened to the indian tribes in the same geography before, and they were extinctified by it.	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	PeterL neither of those are options. a russian oregon alaska and washington, a chinese california, a mexican arizona nm and texas and a european protectorate all the way to ohio is much more likely	[10:59]
mircea_popescu	than americans themselves having any say whatsoever in who gets to fuck their ass for the next ~century.	[10:59]
PeterL	Can we sell ourselves to Canada?	[11:00]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Under foreign management, under the Bundy's, however	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	no. canada becomes part of the split, goes to russia.	[11:00]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely.	[11:00]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Nah, but mebbe the inspire the kid that did. 4 people left in Free Oregon lead by kid named Fry. Fry seems like he's staying a while since FBI killed his friend.	[11:01]
mircea_popescu	four people and their dog aren't part of this discussion.	[11:02]
BingoBoingo	Not yet.	[11:02]
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BingoBoingo	Anyways. The point is the Bundy fumbling has to happen for militia movement to develop which isn't 75% USG informant by weight.	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	not even the usg itself is 75% usg by weight by now.	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	just count the indians for a lul.	[11:03]
mircea_popescu	or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ?	[11:04]
mircea_popescu	the maggot language doesn't have a word for "corpse", and certainly not one for the corpse's ex-marital status.	[11:04]
BingoBoingo	I don't know that the Indian bureaucrats like Preet can think any other way.	[11:04]
BingoBoingo	But the point is the Shaun Bridges have to stop falling for the trap where they reveal their Gobag&fortune to loyalists.	[11:05]
*	assbot removes voice from hdbuck	[11:06]
mircea_popescu	yeah, which will happen five minutes after the usg stops hiring idiots, which will happen half hour after anyone who's not an idiot stops exclusively dedicating himself to the republic, which happens after i'm fucking dead, i should hope.	[11:06]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00056519 = 4.9454 BTC [+] {3}	[11:07]
BingoBoingo	!up ahmedbodi	[11:08]
*	assbot gives voice to ahmedbodi	[11:08]
*	ChanServ removes voice from ahmedbodi	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[11:09]
mircea_popescu	mod6 ben_vulpes http://dpaste.com/20D5709	[11:13]
assbot	dpaste: 20D5709 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KnwNJH )	[11:13]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo dood dat ass!	[11:13]
BingoBoingo	Olympian ass!	[11:14]
mircea_popescu	trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ?	[11:15]
BingoBoingo	Ah, monthly report deed finally posted, ty trinque http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed-396189-3.txt	[11:16]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KnxdQh )	[11:16]
BingoBoingo	wait	[11:17]
BingoBoingo	Fuck I wrote December instead of January in the first line	[11:17]
mircea_popescu	lol	[11:18]
BingoBoingo	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/1PF3JHK.txt	[11:19]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1UGeL5I )	[11:19]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2016/02/qntra-s-qntr-january-2016-report/	[11:20]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[11:20]
assbot	Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Report \| Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1UGeNe6 )	[11:20]
BingoBoingo	But in the positive side, 20 more posts than December while wordcount stayed rather steady.	[11:21]
BingoBoingo	On downside fucking old backup restorating clusterfuck induced error in December	[11:22]
*	mod6 looks	[11:22]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00056227 = 1.0683 BTC [-] {2}	[11:27]
mod6	we're about to get some snow. not as bad as IA tho.	[11:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00056829 = 9.5189 BTC [+] {3}	[11:29]
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PeterL	;;seen dignork	[11:36]
gribble	dignork was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 51 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: Genius - https://github.com/tessalt/echo-chamber-js	[11:36]
PeterL	;;seen artifexd	[11:36]
gribble	artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 40 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.	[11:36]
PeterL	;;seen diametric	[11:37]
gribble	diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point.	[11:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19250 @ 0.00055565 = 10.6963 BTC [-] {2}	[11:38]
*	assbot removes voice from ahmedbodi	[11:39]
mircea_popescu	ok so does anyone have a ready link or fresh context in head re that discussion recently (~month) of that british game publisher that went under with 20mn investment ?	[11:44]
mircea_popescu	one of the founders was arguing it shouldn't get govt support, just let it die	[11:44]
deedbot-	[Qntra] Turmoil Lead To Mizzou Credit Outlook Downgrade - http://qntra.net/2016/02/turmoil-lead-to-mizzou-credit-outlook-downgrade/	[11:50]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22772 @ 0.00056982 = 12.9759 BTC [+] {4}	[11:57]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4885 @ 0.00057044 = 2.7866 BTC [+]	[11:58]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00057044 = 9.783 BTC [+]	[11:59]
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phf	polarbeard: PeterL: a getpeerinfo backport patch for trb: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/db7909cba265c3c50c02 << http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc	[12:08]
assbot	polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JUZhdH )	[12:08]
assbot	polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q9IMqQ )	[12:08]
phf	mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000205.html mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000206.html << http://btcbase.org/patches/programmable-versionstring http://btcbase.org/patches/malleus_mikehearnificarum	[12:09]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Programmable Version String - Integrated Fix ... ( http://bit.ly/1SV8ANu )	[12:09]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Regrind of malleus_mikehearnificarum vpatch ... ( http://bit.ly/1SV8Bkr )	[12:09]
assbot	programmable-versionstring ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q9ISia )	[12:09]
assbot	malleus_mikehearnificarum ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q9ISic )	[12:09]
*	assbot gives voice to dignork	[12:09]
mircea_popescu	deedbot- http://dpaste.com/3ZVB0BG.txt	[12:11]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nKwRcE )	[12:11]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[12:11]
mod6	phf: neat!	[12:13]
phf	i'm just doing manual labour until i get an uploader of some sort	[12:13]
deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1236/bitcoin-to-top-700-before-apr-2016/#b37	[12:14]
phf	fwiw the graph is still not quite right, i.e. shows presses that couldn't happen.	[12:16]
mircea_popescu	excuse the naive approach, but isn't that sort of thing precisely what lisp is supposed to by its nature prevent ?	[12:17]
PeterL	you mean lisp is less magical than they say?	[12:18]
phf	nah, my graph theory is rusty, and figuring out the right algo is a slow mind grinding process	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	if you're going to get an endless slog of obscure bugs that came from nowhere and aren't apparently anything, why not just use something that actually has libraries ?	[12:18]
mircea_popescu	PeterL hey, i'm a dialectician over here :D	[12:18]
phf	there's no library substitute for thinking. the "bug" is not obscure, it's just not implemented right :>	[12:19]
BingoBoingo	libraries don't help make the graph theory learning faster	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	lol k.	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo that is EXACTLY what they help.	[12:19]
mircea_popescu	the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to"	[12:19]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: That was a library.	[12:20]
*	ascii_butugychag (~stanislav@162.17.208.26) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[12:20]
mircea_popescu	which is how the entire world (except brazil) enjoys the benefits of refrigeration, even as there's maybe a guy in a thousand people that could explain how it actually works.	[12:20]
BingoBoingo	Library now means Ycombinator floaty arm things	[12:20]
BingoBoingo	!Up ascii_butugychag	[12:20]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[12:20]
deedbot-	[Trilema] MiniGame (S.MG), January 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-january-2016-statement/	[12:27]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393920 << l0ltr0n	[12:27]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 13:59:52; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely.	[12:27]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00056892 = 8.9605 BTC [-] {2}	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	hey, i don't deny a man his right.	[12:27]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393927 << the indians have the standard, entirely ordinary loyalty of the rest of usg, but hypertrophied: loyalty to the hand that feeds, supplies nice condo, fat retirement, princeyaletonward for the kidz	[12:28]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 14:03:19; mircea_popescu: or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ?	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	more complicated.	[12:28]
mircea_popescu	for instance, another hand would feed them if they went nude dancing. they don't.	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	yet another if they went oil rigging. they don't.	[12:29]
mircea_popescu	they have a very narrow cage through which they might be fed.	[12:29]
ascii_butugychag	the activities listed above are a) actual work, that involves not sitting in a climate-controlled chair all day b) really needs having been raised 'free range' chicken instead of cage-born	[12:30]
ascii_butugychag	do you recall the photo of a very peculiar boar that kakobrekla once posted ?	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	but nevertheless. it's not merely the hand that feeds.	[12:31]
ascii_butugychag	the one who was so fat that he could not even see	[12:31]
mircea_popescu	it's the hand that can be arsed to make it through the mental cage.	[12:31]
ascii_butugychag	picture wild boar paying him a visit, 'let's go for acorns??'	[12:31]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393972 << this is glorious.	[12:32]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 15:08:40; phf: mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000205.html mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000206.html << http://btcbase.org/patches/programmable-versionstring http://btcbase.org/patches/malleus_mikehearnificarum	[12:32]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393994 << ahahahahaha l0l this would be true if computing were an actually adult field, like refrigeration	[12:35]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 15:19:04; mircea_popescu: the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to"	[12:35]
ascii_butugychag	as it is, 'here is a capsule of other people's shit'	[12:36]
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mircea_popescu	yawell.	[12:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19032 @ 0.00056752 = 10.801 BTC [-] {3}	[12:38]
trinque	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=02-02-2016#1393939 << I have time this weekend to give it a look. What's the spec here?	[12:38]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 14:14:45; mircea_popescu: trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ?	[12:38]
ascii_butugychag	one must apprehend the ~systemic~ braindamage:	[12:38]
ascii_butugychag	picture if somehow the phlogiston theory had, by way of sheer accident, resulted in the building of a sorta-working refrigerator.	[12:39]
ascii_butugychag	which then went into mass production.	[12:39]
ascii_butugychag	phlogiston/caloric, rather	[12:39]
PeterL	http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1d14385a-c678-45ee-8e23-bf8860cbe04d/?raw=true << I seem to be getting alot of these error messages, should I be concerned (connected to Dulap)?	[12:40]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/2062uZU )	[12:40]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: bastard tx	[12:40]
PeterL	why is your node sending me bastard txen?	[12:40]
ascii_butugychag	from your node's pov	[12:40]
ascii_butugychag	you don't yet have the block they rely on	[12:41]
PeterL	aha	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	trinque i dunno, jurov was saying something about email, but that seems silly. just allow the import of files and piss them out as a json i guess ?	[12:41]
ascii_butugychag	dulap - did	[12:41]
trinque	http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1ce82d1d-1d42-4d3e-a45d-82d08c6eab7a/?raw=true << btcd's new thing, stops syncing entirely until restarted	[12:41]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/2062Hfv )	[12:41]
ascii_butugychag	why this situation can persist for more than a few seconds, is a question to be asked of shitoshi	[12:41]
trinque	meanwhile trb node at 393k, today is the day...	[12:41]
mircea_popescu	hey jurov phf ascii_butugychag everyone else with an interest : let's get a format for bot-ml-etc interoperability ?	[12:41]
ascii_butugychag	aha!	[12:41]
ascii_butugychag	how about !patch PATCH.vpatch SIG.somebody.sig	[12:42]
jurov	deedbot?	[12:42]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394038 << get rid of the heathen thing already	[12:43]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 15:40:34; trinque: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1ce82d1d-1d42-4d3e-a45d-82d08c6eab7a/?raw=true << btcd's new thing, stops syncing entirely until restarted	[12:43]
trinque	TODAY	[12:43]
trinque	his death comes today	[12:43]
trinque	jurov proposed that deedbot- start taking detached sigs the other day	[12:43]
trinque	ascii_butugychag: in that form	[12:43]
mircea_popescu	jurov well it's already here, already takes dpastes, not so bad no ?	[12:43]
ascii_butugychag	neato	[12:44]
ascii_butugychag	did we ever figure out how to dpaste without mutilation ?	[12:44]
trinque	does ben_vulpes' mutilate ?	[12:44]
PeterL	did we decide if wotpaste fixes the mutilation issue?	[12:44]
trinque	could get the thing a shorter domain	[12:44]
phf	issue was with html input boxes adding # ewline# eturn	[12:45]
PeterL	and could the raw be default?	[12:45]
phf	i think cascadian solution was to strip # eturn on incoming posts?	[12:46]
phf	but curl works reliably on any of the posting services. or anyway anything that can do an http post without fucking up the payload	[12:46]
jurov	mircea_popescu: i wait for deedbot to accept files and detached signatures, no dpaste braindamage	[12:46]
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mircea_popescu	jurov respectfully an' all that, but : didn't we test dpaste and it came out that it mangled nothing ?	[12:47]
jurov	i was not aware of these tests. and what if some day it will?	[12:48]
phf	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-12-2015#1353760	[12:48]
assbot	Logged on 26-12-2015 05:30:02; phf: (drakma:http-request (concatenate 'string (cdr (assoc :location (nth-value 2 (drakma:http-request "http://dpaste.com/api/v2/" :method :post :parameters `(("content" . ,(concatenate 'string "foo" '(#Newline) "bar"))))))) ".txt") :force-binary t)	[12:48]
mircea_popescu	jurov that's a problem yeah	[12:49]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[12:51]
BingoBoingo	!up ascii_butugychag	[12:53]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[12:53]
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ascii_butugychag	so there's a proggy i've been testin'	[12:54]
ascii_butugychag	not fit for battlefield yet	[12:54]
ascii_butugychag	and not sure if this is even The Right Thing	[12:55]
ascii_butugychag	you ask for a pgptronic random turd, a la assbot, it gets enciphered to your pubkey (if you are in l1)	[12:55]
ascii_butugychag	this gets fed into a small proggy on your box, which now knows where to connect, and what the symmetric cipher key is	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	the latter enciphers a plain tcp tunnel.	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	on other side is the same thing, started for just one session, with same key	[12:56]
ascii_butugychag	and on the other side of that, e.g., anon ftp.	[12:56]
mircea_popescu	so like minigossip	[12:57]
mircea_popescu	mossip	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	draft name, 'g'	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	(gate)	[12:57]
BingoBoingo	interesting	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	ben_vulpes wanted some warez, and i realized that we haven't the most elementary provisions for warez	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	and dusted this ancient thing off	[12:57]
ascii_butugychag	but not quite ready to fire in anger yet, this is a world-exposed sorta thing and needs to be 'measure 777 times, cut once'	[12:58]
ascii_butugychag	but i wanted to put this basic summary here, in case i get flattened by a bus or whatnot tonight.	[12:58]
ascii_butugychag	anybody got a favourite symmetric cipher, incidentally ?	[12:59]
mircea_popescu	cramer shoup!	[13:00]
ascii_butugychag	symmetric plox	[13:00]
mircea_popescu	ugh.	[13:01]
jurov	rot13	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	you know, it's just like you that you'd ask about the one hole.	[13:01]
mircea_popescu	there's no good symmetric cypher.	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	^	[13:01]
ascii_butugychag	but so many perfectly decent bad ones! l0l	[13:01]
*	ascii_butugychag specializes in 'the one hole', aha	[13:02]
ascii_butugychag	btw how come nobody uses blum-blum-shub, which provably reduces to quadratic residuosity hardness, as a block cipher ?	[13:03]
mircea_popescu	expensive, wasn't it ?	[13:04]
ascii_butugychag	possibly this, but possibly the proof is dodgy	[13:04]
ascii_butugychag	iirc it has some fine points	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	this is actually a good call for wisdoms. what's the #b-a symmetric cypher ?	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	beats nist certification. speak up.	[13:06]
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ascii_butugychag	http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/3454/blum-blum-shub-vs-aes-ctr-or-other-csprngs << good bits of this read rather usgtronic	[13:07]
assbot	Blum Blum Shub vs. AES-CTR or other CSPRNGs - Cryptography Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1PwQsay )	[13:07]
ascii_butugychag	'it's slow and there are boojums and didja know it's slow??...'	[13:07]
punkman	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum%E2%80%93Goldwasser_cryptosystem this says it uses blum-blum-shub	[13:08]
assbot	Blum–Goldwasser cryptosystem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PwQzmp )	[13:08]
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ascii_butugychag	http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2014-January/019426.html << motherfucking fud	[13:11]
assbot	[Cryptography] Dual_EC_DRBG backdoor: a proof of concept ... ( http://bit.ly/2067gGQ )	[13:11]
ascii_butugychag	'pushes the problem down to your rng' which 'of course' can never work	[13:11]
mircea_popescu	well... can it ?	[13:12]
ascii_butugychag	... because the pope said, or somesuch	[13:12]
*	mircea_popescu pounds down on his empty cardano box	[13:12]
ascii_butugychag	l0l mircea_popescu has the rng! could be swimming in rngola	[13:12]
mircea_popescu	NO! because reasons!	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	!s jon callas	[13:13]
assbot	2 results for 'jon callas' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jon+callas	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	hm	[13:13]
ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-04-2015#1082858 << ahahahahaha	[13:14]
assbot	Logged on 01-04-2015 21:20:02; *: ascii_field listened (in car) to an infuriatingly zimmermanish interview with jon callas (former pgp, now 'silent circle' garbage)	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	""Many people who haven't thought it through have sung its praises over the years, mostly because they got seduced by the sound theoretic basis. Blum-Blum-Shub has two of the three flaws that DUAL_EC_DRBG has: it's slow, and you can't prove it secure.	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	ahaha what is this inept bullshit ?	[13:14]
ascii_butugychag	'Jon Callas Former CTO of PGP Now CTO Silent Circle'	[13:14]
mircea_popescu	THOSE are "the flaws" plural of nsa-backdoor ?	[13:14]
ascii_butugychag	whole turd worth reading, but for pro entomologists strictly !	[13:15]
ascii_butugychag	i now strongly suspect that blumblumshub can be proven to equal rsa in hardness	[13:16]
ascii_butugychag	BUT i do not know this proof, and it is not public.	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag incidentally, if you'll excuse the naive approach : couldn't in principle any p-and-q scheme be made to have a mutating p-and-q ?	[13:16]
ascii_butugychag	what we are seeing in callas and the shitoverflow derp is akin to the horizon of black hole	[13:16]
mircea_popescu	let me express this better.	[13:16]
ascii_butugychag	we cannot see the dense matter at the center, but can see the derpwalls around	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	isn't any "rsa-like" symmetric cypher basically an immature or partial implementation of	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	well... hm.	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	i dunno what i want here. nm.	[13:19]
ascii_butugychag	(i must mention, for completeness, that derpwall could have an opposite purpose, of preventing inquiriy into the ~weakness~ of b-b-s when used as prng, as it is in many systems incl. iirc, certain versions of winblowz)	[13:19]
ascii_butugychag	it is interesting, to me, how the derpwall of 'don't go there! dragons!' always has quite the same appearance, from a mile away	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	"This is interesting because nowhere do they address the central engineering issue -- that a fixed p,q is not secure yet a variable one requires another RNG to seed the RNG." << except the part where a prng IS NOT A RNG	[13:23]
mircea_popescu	such thick.	[13:23]
ascii_butugychag	like the standard fortifications around usg pissholes	[13:23]
ascii_butugychag	this isn't 'thick', it is cheap confabulation and obfuscation	[13:24]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[13:24]
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mircea_popescu	remidn me, do p and q have to be primes or relatively prime in bss ?	[13:27]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[13:29]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[13:29]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[13:29]
ascii_butugychag	if they aren't prime, you're using multiprime rsa and if your smallest prime is small, you get, e.g., pollard-rho'd	[13:29]
mircea_popescu	ah yes	[13:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5259 @ 0.0005679 = 2.9866 BTC [+] {2}	[13:30]
mircea_popescu	the quadratic residuity issue makes me think fermat primes should be somewhere involved in all this	[13:31]
ascii_butugychag	i always found it interesting that, after all of the $maxint spent on both sides of the ocean on symmetric crypto (see maslennikov's b00k, from the l0gz, say) we have - publicly - no more provably-hard symmetric crypto than a hundred years ago	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	what happens say if q is a primitive root modulo p ?	[13:32]
ascii_butugychag	that is, vernam (otp) and that's IT	[13:32]
mircea_popescu	the problem is not necessarily tractable!	[13:32]
ascii_butugychag	didn't say it were.	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	just that none of the results, positive or negative, leaked out.	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	(to where i could find'em)	[13:34]
ascii_butugychag	this'd be a neato use for mircea_popescu's network of little birds, incidentally	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	a one ounce bird can not carry a two pound coconut!	[13:35]
ascii_butugychag	can carry the smell.	[13:35]
mircea_popescu	if coconuts smelled ...	[13:36]
ascii_butugychag	and the one-bit, 'i saw a coconut'	[13:36]
ascii_butugychag	like noah's pigeon.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	it'd be easier for it to carry one than to see one.	[13:36]
mircea_popescu	don't get me wrong, your point is well taken. just...	[13:37]
ascii_butugychag	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1323 << obligatory oldie, from my www; i will note that most of the proprietary ciphers are known to be symmetric.	[13:38]
assbot	Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name. ... ( http://bit.ly/1gZ2mwl )	[13:38]
mircea_popescu	also known to not work, by and large.	[13:38]
ascii_butugychag	if mircea_popescu knows this, he oughta share	[13:39]
ascii_butugychag	because nobody else (at least not humans) does.	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	what am i to share, a scent ?	[13:39]
ascii_butugychag	sure why not	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	i shared it like three times to date when this thread came up!	[13:39]
mircea_popescu	you're always "wake me up when there's steak"	[13:39]
ascii_butugychag	l0l	[13:40]
ascii_butugychag	btw if you read that article, my hypothesis was that the usg ciphers are specially built to fail in a particular way.	[13:41]
mircea_popescu	i recall us discussing old soviet machines re that also	[13:42]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21013 @ 0.00056744 = 11.9236 BTC [-] {3}	[13:45]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: maslennikov actually discusses at great length why 'GOST' cipher, which is a cruddy knockoff of DES, was adopted	[13:47]
ascii_butugychag	he claims that it was disinfo.	[13:47]
ascii_butugychag	to 'guard the precious su proprietary cipherz'	[13:47]
mircea_popescu	heh	[13:48]
ascii_butugychag	the latter, he explains, sank with the rest of atlantis	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	you know why fat women on okcupid aren't getting laid ?	[13:48]
ascii_butugychag	guard their precious eggs, aha	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	they're guarding their precious proprietary meat curtains. for what ? FOR A GUY THAT DESERVES THEM DAMNIT	[13:48]
ascii_butugychag	similar.	[13:48]
mircea_popescu	same place the us is keeping its real economy!	[13:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.0005691 = 2.0488 BTC [+] {3}	[13:52]
ascii_butugychag	my suspicion is that neither side has a block or stream cipher of provable hardness	[13:53]
ascii_butugychag	(cipher in the non-otp sense)	[13:53]
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mircea_popescu	"the proof of hardness is at the point of a spear"	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	neither side of the 3-4 sides involved EVEN COMPREHENDS what that'd be, let alone why they'd want it.	[13:54]
ascii_butugychag	mno	[13:54]
mircea_popescu	and the most exposed of the lot (the islamists) show quite clearly how it works.	[13:54]
ascii_butugychag	it isn't a difficult concept	[13:54]
ascii_butugychag	wai wut	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	to imagine the indian-us is any different is laughable.	[13:55]
ascii_butugychag	nsa complex is not indian - yet	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	to this fucking day "security" in the us is "he knew your mother's maiden name so clearly he was you" "what if my mother was a whore ?"	[13:55]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[13:55]
ascii_butugychag	(has bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going)	[13:56]
ascii_butugychag	that's pleeb seek000rity	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	that "bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going" is the VERY DEFINITION of indian	[13:56]
mircea_popescu	what did you think indian meant, "smells of cardamom" ?	[13:57]
ascii_butugychag	aha	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	there's a reason the nazis were regarded as barely better than the russians back in the day.	[13:57]
mircea_popescu	certainly a step back for germany.	[13:57]
ascii_butugychag	anyway what i meant was, they have a pedigreed white meat thing going	[13:59]
ascii_butugychag	since the beginning	[13:59]
ascii_butugychag	see, e.g., snowden	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	when they start with "don't say nigger to be civilised and don't go topless to go to heaven", they took a step back. which means a step east. they're less greek and more indian.	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	no i know what you meant. it is SPECIFICALLY inferior in this specific manner we call "indian".	[13:59]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[13:59]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:00]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[14:00]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:00]
ascii_butugychag	i tend to associate this with old brit and ru empires, officers with purchased commissions, imbecilic commanders, 'blue blood.'	[14:00]
ascii_butugychag	cia as per ~its own~ official histories admits being an org made of 'second sons'	[14:00]
ascii_butugychag	(of commercial aristos, who did not have quite enough to bequeath to each son)	[14:01]
mircea_popescu	officers with purchased commissions is not in any sense a bad idea ~per se~. would you be lead by some schmuck fresh out of west point or by some dude who made and spent 10k btc to lead you ?	[14:02]
ascii_butugychag	the 10k are more likely to belong to buterin	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	i'll take my chances with the dude who spent actual money to get there.	[14:03]
ascii_butugychag	than to anybody who 'made'	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	which is the problem here. purchased comissions are not the problem - fake money is.	[14:03]
ascii_butugychag	buterin has (had?) a trunk of perfectly genuine money.	[14:03]
mircea_popescu	west point hasn't had a worthy officer come out of it since before you were born.	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	chances are chances.	[14:04]
ascii_butugychag	i thought mircea_popescu taught us that they quit making worthy officers some time around 1800	[14:04]
mircea_popescu	but anyway, the whole caste bullshit is specifically indian. it is a cheap and simple solution to "what to do when confronted with multitudes and unwilling to think"	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	which is why it fits so well to the needs and capacities of the us today.	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	anyway the funniest thing is that nobody cancelled purchased commissions, and other simonies - they are simply brokered through the credential racketeers now	[14:05]
ascii_butugychag	(e.g., harvard tuition is what, exactly.)	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	they CAN NOT be cancelled.	[14:05]
mircea_popescu	you don't get to soft fork things.	[14:06]
ascii_butugychag	!s buluceala	[14:06]
assbot	6 results for 'buluceala' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buluceala	[14:06]
mircea_popescu	pretty much.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	anyway : there was a short time in the history of europe (and therefore the world) where the masses figured that they're in power and since they didn't know what else to do, decided to promote entertainers to leadership positions.	[14:10]
mircea_popescu	which is how hitler ended up stuck moving divisions on a map	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	the tragedy of the austrian painter being that the fucking divisions were wholy imaginary throughout his tenure	[14:11]
mircea_popescu	that actual items moved in seeming lockstep with this for a while is not really germane.	[14:11]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: so wordpress is retarded.	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	the folly of purchasing one's commission with song, dance and merriment should be plainly apparent by now.	[14:12]
thestringpuller	theme-editor is all "You don't have permissions	[14:12]
thestringpuller	"	[14:12]
mircea_popescu	i dunno what that is.	[14:12]
thestringpuller	I su into the user that php is running from edit the file	[14:12]
thestringpuller	and it's like "Yup I can do this"	[14:12]
thestringpuller	but when you do php f_open It's all "file can't be opened for writing permission denied"	[14:13]
thestringpuller	wtf php	[14:13]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00056645 = 3.0022 BTC [-] {2}	[14:15]
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mod6	shiva did expose a defect in v99996 of V (line 420), in one of the graphing subroutines (add_desc_src_files). the rest is fine. locally added simple conditinal check to see if the node is empty seems to have fixed it.	[14:29]
ascii_butugychag	shiva, or tinyscheme-genesis ?	[14:29]
mod6	here's a screenshot of the graph after the fix was applied (locally):	[14:29]
mod6	http://www.mod6.net/btcf/vpatch-tree-wShiva.png	[14:29]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JVKRdu )	[14:29]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[14:30]
mod6	i don't have tinyscheme-genesis in my patches dir. just shiva 1_of_2 and shiva 2_of_2 + the shiva fix.	[14:30]
*	assbot gives voice to mod6	[14:33]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[14:33]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[14:33]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: ok now i see	[14:34]
ascii_butugychag	btw, educational exercise for anybody interested in shiva: diff ~the vpatches~ shiva-part-1 and the tinyscheme-genesis aggregate.	[14:34]
ascii_butugychag	you should get a diff consisting solely of pathnames.	[14:34]
ascii_butugychag	this, if you will, is a 'bridge' meta-patch.	[14:35]
ascii_butugychag	i did not sign it, because we have no mechanical provisions for processing such a thing, nor is it a long-term goal	[14:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00056643 = 10.3657 BTC [-] {2}	[14:36]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18139 @ 0.0005703 = 10.3447 BTC [+] {2}	[14:41]
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danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393896 << http://www.atruechurch.info/women.html >> Although God has in the past placed women in authority over men (e.g. Judges 4:4), and even today the Lord places women in authority over men (e.g. Romans 13:1), this is nonetheless a shameful reality, as Isaiah illustrates. (Isaiah 3:12)	[15:02]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 13:53:49; PeterL: I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any	[15:02]
assbot	A True Church - Scriptural View Of Women ... ( http://bit.ly/1SqIFOd )	[15:02]
danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393853 << I met the guy at both PaulFest and PorcFest (pictured https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bre5M-MIMAEVoHf.jpg:large )	[15:02]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 13:16:03; *: asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket	[15:02]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SqIIcM )	[15:02]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[15:04]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00055632 = 10.0138 BTC [-] {2}	[15:11]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:15]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[15:15]
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ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: roger	[15:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26995 @ 0.00056009 = 15.1196 BTC [+]	[15:37]
ben_vulpes	http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc << now this, i will review. thank you, polarbeard	[15:39]
assbot	polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q9IMqQ )	[15:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5499 @ 0.00057043 = 3.1368 BTC [+] {2}	[15:43]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[15:46]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4039 @ 0.00056066 = 2.2645 BTC [-] {2}	[15:52]
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jurov	so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot?	[15:55]
jurov	or should i figure how to shoehorn .vpatch+ .vpatch.sig to dpaste?	[15:58]
jurov	or alf definitely proclaimed turdatron obsolete?	[15:58]
jurov	trinque ascii_butugychag mod6 ^	[15:59]
jurov	!up ascii_butugychag	[15:59]
*	assbot gives voice to jurov	[16:01]
jurov	!up ascii_butugychag	[16:01]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[16:01]
shinohai	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/0MPQ1CH.txt	[16:03]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/20EMmRm )	[16:03]
deedbot-	imported: 260FA57BCE677A5C04BF60BA4A75883CC1B1D34C	[16:03]
ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394055 << not on receipt afaik, only returns for and	[16:05]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 15:43:52; trinque: does ben_vulpes' mutilate ?	[16:05]
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ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394079 << /me would read	[16:06]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 15:56:39; ascii_butugychag: draft name, 'g'	[16:06]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell adlai is this in reference to the tweet referencing a blog post referencing a reddit thinger?	[16:07]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[16:07]
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deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.25000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b85	[16:10]
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ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394262 << epic	[16:12]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 18:01:26; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393853 << I met the guy at both PaulFest and PorcFest (pictured https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bre5M-MIMAEVoHf.jpg:large )	[16:12]
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ascii_butugychag	https://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/08/14/760732/10145672/en/CipherLoc-Corporation-Announces-Today-That-Cipher-Block-Chaining-Mode-Has-Been-Broken-With-Results-Presented-at-DEFCON-Conference.html << vintage crapolade, lulzy	[16:16]
assbot	CipherLoc Corporation Announces Today That Cipher Block Chaining Mode Has Been Broken With Results Presented at DEFCON Conference Other OTC:CLOK ... ( http://bit.ly/20EOdFL )	[16:16]
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jurov	!up princessnell	[16:28]
*	assbot gives voice to princessnell	[16:28]
jurov	hello, long time no see	[16:28]
ben_vulpes	https://medium.com/@hellopicoc/this-black-owned-portland-business-will-disappear-without-your-help-21f9fa195d78#.cywj4lxdv << it's a business! it's a charity! it's some people who failed to invest in their property for decades and now want everyone else to shoulder the burden of bringing their property up to code!	[16:29]
assbot	This black-owned Portland business will disappear without your help. — Medium ... ( http://bit.ly/1QYsypm )	[16:29]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9919 @ 0.00055876 = 5.5423 BTC [-]	[16:31]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[16:32]
ben_vulpes	g'morning princessnell	[16:35]
*	assbot gives voice to mod6	[16:35]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[16:35]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[16:35]
ascii_butugychag	ben_vulpes: played with shiva yet ?	[16:36]
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princessnell	thanks. howdy ben_vulpes + all	[16:40]
jurov	princessnell: you have here 15675 s.qntr shares, want to do anything with them?	[16:41]
danielpbarron	hi there :)	[16:41]
ascii_butugychag	the 64 gigazimbabwedollar question:	[16:42]
ascii_butugychag	is princessnell named after the 'diamond age' heroine.	[16:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.0005548 = 9.1542 BTC [-] {2}	[16:52]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag wassat ?	[16:54]
mircea_popescu	hey princessnell	[16:54]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: b00k. neal stephenson. quite lulzy	[16:55]
ascii_butugychag	had little gurl, nell, who illicitly found a robotic tutor who gave her puzzles about 'princess nell' and taught her to survive in the Dark Fyootoor (tm)	[16:56]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4054 @ 0.00055875 = 2.2652 BTC [+] {2}	[16:56]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2015/who-made-this/#comment-113441 << in other news apparently the anme is joshua unseth	[16:56]
assbot	Who made this ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QYyRcl )	[16:57]
ascii_butugychag	'diamond age' is prolly closest thing i know to a fictional portrayal of... tmsr	[16:57]
princessnell	ascii_butugychag yes. i am lame.	[16:57]
princessnell	hey mircea_popescu. all goes well in the kingdom?	[16:57]
mircea_popescu	http://junseth.com/ << not actually terribru.	[16:58]
assbot	#savetherobots ... ( http://bit.ly/1QYz9QK )	[16:58]
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mircea_popescu	princessnell well for one thing it's a republic and for the other http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=31-01-2016#1390659	[16:58]
assbot	Logged on 31-01-2016 04:36:34; mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style << actually, best estimate i can get puts TMSR GDP growth for 2015 somewhere around 450-500%. that's not 4.5-5	[16:58]
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mircea_popescu	hdbuck you know you're leaking ip.	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	!up hdbuck	[17:01]
-assbot-	You voiced hdbuck for 30 minutes.	[17:01]
*	assbot gives voice to hdbuck	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	!gettrust assbot hdbuck	[17:01]
assbot	Trust relationship from user assbot to user hdbuck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=hdbuck \| http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/hdbuck/	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	and also you can self-voice.	[17:01]
hdbuck	ah, sure i know	[17:01]
mircea_popescu	princessnell and how goes with you ? ready to do some serious newswork jet ?	[17:01]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[17:05]
thestringpuller	!up ascii_butugychag	[17:06]
mircea_popescu	jurov> so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot? << not so far.	[17:06]
mircea_popescu	do you mind holding my hand again while i try to send stuff to this ?	[17:06]
hdbuck	mircea, about all that ‘proposal’ of yours, isnt it somehow sealing the 1MB limit?	[17:07]
mircea_popescu	!up mappum	[17:07]
-assbot-	You voiced mappum for 30 minutes.	[17:07]
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jurov	mircea_popescu: you're asking me?	[17:13]
jurov	i won't mind	[17:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056905 = 9.4462 BTC [+] {4}	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	ok so i am sending an email to btc-dev@therealbitcoin.org with subject line Certify polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc with content as a clearsigned short explanation of what it is, and with two attachments	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch and polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig in this order	[17:15]
mircea_popescu	problems ?	[17:15]
jurov	no problems	[17:16]
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mircea_popescu	want a witness email cc'd ?	[17:16]
jurov	not needed, if it can find and verify the clearsigned part marked as text/plain or text/gpg, all is swell	[17:16]
mircea_popescu	aaaand ... sent@	[17:17]
jurov	discarded :( looking...	[17:18]
jurov	had wordwrap enabled?	[17:19]
jurov	yep. you did	[17:19]
mircea_popescu	for the body ?	[17:19]
jurov	yes, the clearsigned text	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	redoing	[17:20]
mircea_popescu	aaand sent!	[17:21]
mircea_popescu	basically email-based ml posting reduces to human-impersonated irc bot o.O	[17:21]
jurov	huh, i now see only pgp signature without text	[17:22]
jurov	see your outbox	[17:22]
mircea_popescu	aghaga derp.	[17:22]
jurov	!up ascii_butugychag	[17:23]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[17:23]
ascii_butugychag	now mircea_popescu knows the joys !11	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	3rd's a charm ?	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	so far tis been my fault ascii_butugychag	[17:23]
ascii_butugychag	it is 'always the user's fault'	[17:23]
jurov	zing!	[17:23]
ascii_butugychag	'doctor, it hurts'	[17:23]
mircea_popescu	well, no.	[17:24]
mircea_popescu	ahh there we go.	[17:24]
ascii_butugychag	congrats mircea_popescu	[17:25]
ascii_butugychag	btw which main.cpp does this patch sit on ?	[17:26]
jurov	it does not touch main.cpp	[17:27]
ascii_butugychag	hm	[17:27]
mircea_popescu	it's on bitcoinrpc	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	mod6 why is your v perl implementation named v0001.pl on ml instead of a saner v99996 ?	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	im contemplating signing this to reflect its successful usage to bring up nodes, but should i really sign a file called "v0001.pl" ?	[17:28]
*	ascii_butugychag goes & actually reads	[17:28]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag tis short and sweet.	[17:29]
ascii_butugychag	indeed.	[17:30]
ascii_butugychag	this is how a patch ought to be.	[17:30]
thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag: you won't be happy until you have plug in head to computer	[17:34]
jurov	i'd prefer to name it v_MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMCMXCVI	[17:36]
mircea_popescu	omaigerd jurov is such a gadfly	[17:38]
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mod6	<+mircea_popescu> mod6 why is your v perl implementation named v0001.pl on ml instead of a saner v99996 ? << weird? where do you see that?	[17:41]
mod6	afaik i've always named the actual file `v.pl'	[17:41]
*	mircea_popescu goes to check, finds v.pl	[17:42]
jurov	ooooh maybe ml renamed it to avoid conflict	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	where the fuck did i end up with this v-0001.pl then o.O	[17:42]
mircea_popescu	mod6 http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160128/v.pl?sha1=6c20a367bb0788fb6343754f1bd3034a3544c277 << would be this right ?	[17:43]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KoiDYO )	[17:43]
mod6	yah, that's the right one.	[17:43]
mod6	no idea how you got v-0001.pl tho	[17:43]
ascii_butugychag	1) rename 2) forget	[17:44]
ascii_butugychag	^ the mega-algo	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	ok well. they're all 3 identical : the v, the v-0001 of mystery and the v.pl on the actual machine that pressed with it	[17:44]
thestringpuller	!s selinux	[17:44]
assbot	11 results for 'selinux' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=selinux	[17:44]
mircea_popescu	so ima go ahead.	[17:44]
mod6	alrighty.	[17:44]
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mod6	you may wanna hold off for a minute	[17:53]
mod6	something is wrong with that patch, and V isn't doing anything about it.	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	toolate.jpg	[17:53]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[17:53]
mod6	f	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	anyway, im not doing a patch. im doing v.pl	[17:53]
mircea_popescu	mod6 http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-February/000208.html	[17:54]
assbot	[BTC-dev] Certify v.pl 99996K ... ( http://bit.ly/1JWdlDL )	[17:54]
polarbeard	ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: hey thanks for reviewing and submitting my patch	[17:57]
mircea_popescu	cheerios.	[17:57]
polarbeard	anything else I can do? should I play with shiva? :)	[17:58]
mircea_popescu	by all means, i like to see an apoplectic alf.	[17:58]
mod6	whats weird here, is that the hashes in the patch, before and after, match nothing that i've got. so i've gotta figure that out.	[17:59]
polarbeard	so is the plan to port all rpc commands to shiva actually?	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	yes. and then all logging and then etc.	[17:59]
mod6	and that might be because i'm running with my two replacement patches for ascii's stuff that haven't been verified yet.	[17:59]
mod6	will find out here in a minute	[17:59]
polarbeard	mod6: you mean on my patch?	[17:59]
mircea_popescu	mod6 that'd be exactly what it'd be	[17:59]
mod6	looks like it compiled fine -- even though the patch had to apply with Hunk offset garbage	[18:00]
mod6	this one needs to be reground	[18:00]
mod6	if anyone else is in the middle of creating a patch - maybe hold off a day or so before you submit until I can straighten out the tree & test everything.	[18:01]
polarbeard	yes, it needs reground, I didn't know it will be submitted so what I published is on top of my better logging patches	[18:01]
mod6	or at least until i give the "all good" signal in here.	[18:01]
mod6	!up ascii_butugychag	[18:01]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[18:01]
ascii_butugychag	ty mod6. i'd like to note that in a time of 'fog of war', when some patch is up in the air, it is not necessary to hold off on ~all~ work, but only things which concern the affected subsystems.	[18:02]
ascii_butugychag	a, e.g., shiva.cpp - only patch - will work fine	[18:02]
jurov	and since everyone is regrinding patches right and left, maybe we'd like to revisit the notion of "obsoletes that other one"	[18:03]
jurov	?	[18:03]
mircea_popescu	go on jurov ?	[18:03]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: it's a 'longest chain' sort of thing. see old thread.	[18:04]
ascii_butugychag	an obsolete patch is simply one that doesn't keep getting built on.	[18:04]
mircea_popescu	forking as a way of life.	[18:04]
ascii_butugychag	imho any other definition is necessarily un-vtronic	[18:04]
ascii_butugychag	just like in bitcoin	[18:04]
jurov	is that always decidable? if i have A, which has a child patch B, and author regrinds A into A' which is to be kept?	[18:06]
ascii_butugychag	it is no more immediately decidable than a young chain fork in bitcoin	[18:07]
jurov	imo both A and A' should be kept at leas B' isn't reground too	[18:07]
ascii_butugychag	when there are two prongs of equal length	[18:07]
*	joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[18:07]
jurov	but how do I add both A and A' into the repo without renaming?	[18:08]
mod6	ah, so this is what is very weird:	[18:08]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/2KC7SWP.txt	[18:08]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1KomnJJ )	[18:08]
mod6	still needs to be re-ground, but was just weird that it had no matching antecedents	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	mod6 as he says, turns out he wrote it on top of patches that didn't make in	[18:09]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: what am i looking at	[18:09]
ascii_butugychag	ah	[18:09]
mod6	and thats even with a full sync of the mirror as it exists up until this very minute.	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	well yes because he never actually published them, ie, by sending to ml or w/e the process is.	[18:09]
mod6	mircea_popescu: ahh, ok.	[18:09]
mod6	no worries, they need to be re-ground, i'll work on that.	[18:09]
mircea_popescu	but this MIGHT be a bug in v	[18:10]
polarbeard	yes, sorry for that, got me totally by surprise	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	because if i sign random shit that doesn't actually connect to the tree even if it claims to	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	it shouldn't press.	[18:10]
mod6	right this is actually a really good test case.	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	then again	[18:10]
ascii_butugychag	i thought mod6's vtron actually verified each patch operation ?	[18:10]
mircea_popescu	it doesn't press.	[18:10]
mod6	and yah, its certainly flawed.	[18:10]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13527 @ 0.00057044 = 7.7163 BTC [+]	[18:10]
ascii_butugychag	(also important to disable 'fuzziness' in the latter)	[18:11]
mod6	it verifies the post press checksum.	[18:11]
ascii_butugychag	but not the return code of patch -p0 < .... ?	[18:11]
mod6	but that could be somehow broken as well, obviously, this needs some attention.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	aite.	[18:11]
ascii_butugychag	(my own vtron verified nothing at all, i must point out.)	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	but as polarbeard among others can testify, this makes writing code fucking difficult, thanks god.	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	so many things you gotta check!	[18:11]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: recall how it was pre-v ?	[18:12]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[18:12]
mod6	before i re-grind this patch, im gonna look into V a bit while I wait for ascii to give me the green light on the other two reground from lastnight.	[18:13]
polarbeard	it's a matter of maintaining a personal branch and an official one	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	anyway : this FORK BY DEFAULT!!11 tendency of the v world, whereby it takes serious work and generally http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/sea-otters.jpg to stay on the same branch is one of its best features imo.	[18:13]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1JWgzY5 )	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	creates thriving communities and supports the implicit "fragmentation=strength" properties of the wot something fierce.	[18:13]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: you can give the green light to yourself, just vdiff the result of applying my two patches vs. the result of applying your unified.	[18:14]
ascii_butugychag	if same - then works	[18:14]
mod6	im just trying to be sure, im already pretty sure... but i wanted you to look/test so i dont end up with more on my plate	[18:20]
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hanbot	deedbot- http://thewhet.net/han/mpifpc4_012016.txt.asc	[18:23]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1mbe4FN )	[18:23]
deedbot-	accepted: 1	[18:23]
mod6	man, v is failing badly.	[18:25]
mircea_popescu	eh dun panic mod6	[18:26]
mircea_popescu	say, you got enough sleep last nite ?	[18:26]
mod6	the output hashes of net.h/net.cpp/bitcoinrpc.cpp are not matching the vpatch at all, this should have died mid press.	[18:26]
mod6	but it didn't	[18:26]
mod6	sleep, eh, yah.	[18:26]
mod6	bout par	[18:26]
shinohai	>.< do sleep mod6	[18:29]
mircea_popescu	mod6 but does it press ? from what i see it correctly says no antecedents found etc	[18:31]
mod6	it does press, yes, but it shouldn't	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	hm	[18:31]
mircea_popescu	unautomated tests ftw huh	[18:32]
mod6	and.. even if it does press, it should have immediately haulted when it saw this:	[18:32]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[18:32]
mod6	here's a debug snippit	[18:33]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/2GM1YBV.txt	[18:33]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PQ4OP1 )	[18:33]
mod6	i've got some idiotic thing going on in there, looking now.	[18:33]
mircea_popescu	tsk	[18:34]
mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag	[18:35]
-assbot-	You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes.	[18:35]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[18:35]
ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu:, mod6: notice the '5 offset' ??	[18:35]
*	joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	if only it were built in lisp mod6	[18:35]
ascii_butugychag	gotta disable fuzzz	[18:35]
mircea_popescu	then it wouldn't have had this problem :D	[18:35]
ascii_butugychag	that way v will stop where it must	[18:35]
ascii_butugychag	i wonder who thought 'fuzzy' diff was a good idea for a default to begin with	[18:36]
polarbeard	'this must fit' :D	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	reminds me of the circular connectors, with 100s of pins, that rockets had - in su they copied american plugs, yes; but they also had sergeants with hammers	[18:37]
ascii_butugychag	'yes it will fit!11111'	[18:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10669 @ 0.00057044 = 6.086 BTC [+]	[18:38]
polarbeard	cable connection succeeded (offset 5 pins broken).	[18:38]
ascii_butugychag	^	[18:39]
ascii_butugychag	http://www.koehlke.com/media/MIL-Spec/Delphi-28840-connector.jpg << them	[18:39]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1o3H4k8 )	[18:39]
polarbeard	uhg, those would require --backup-if-mismatch --force	[18:41]
*	mircea_popescu had no idea diff even has a "fuzzy" concept.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	how does this work ? i'm sitting here doumbfounded.	[18:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16950 @ 0.00056976 = 9.6574 BTC [-]	[18:42]
ascii_butugychag	it did!	[18:42]
polarbeard	finds surrounding lines, omits whitespace, and don't know what more dirty tricks	[18:42]
ascii_butugychag	tries to find a place where the context fits.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu	but... so then why bother doing a diff	[18:43]
ascii_butugychag	it is 'patch' that does this	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	just you know, run a tail on the file. good enough	[18:43]
ascii_butugychag	tries to make the patch fit	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	oh.	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	oh oh nm then.	[18:43]
ascii_butugychag	and i warned, that this has to be switched off	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	jesus i wonder how much "mission critical code" was really written by patch itself.	[18:43]
ascii_butugychag	or you get improperly localized failure	[18:43]
mircea_popescu	0.1% ?	[18:44]
mircea_popescu	1 ppm ?	[18:44]
ascii_butugychag	prolly enough to be 'interesting'	[18:44]
polarbeard	lol, committed by patch	[18:44]
ascii_butugychag	and the overall effect is more similar to the rocket pins	[18:44]
ascii_butugychag	than to a ppm of anything	[18:44]
ascii_butugychag	(physically speaking)	[18:44]
ascii_butugychag	gnupatch has 'fuzz' because... you never know whether the comments got regendered ? or what.	[18:45]
ascii_butugychag	nfi.	[18:46]
ben_vulpes	whitespace gardeners.	[18:46]
ascii_butugychag	at any rate, v really started as a pill against this particular thing	[18:46]
ascii_butugychag	'this patch applies IF THIS HASH otherwise FUCKOFF'	[18:46]
mircea_popescu	quite	[18:47]
ascii_butugychag	in fact, the use of gnudiff/patch is really happenstance	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	well this has been a most instructive experience.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu	welcome to the club polarbeard eh.	[18:49]
polarbeard	hoho	[18:49]
polarbeard	I'm aliasing potch='patch --fuzzy 1000'	[18:49]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00056976 = 6.3528 BTC [-]	[18:49]
ascii_butugychag	v is simply a mathatron that deals in the basic operation h,s1,o,s2 where s1 and s2 are strings, h is an operation (usually a hash) for recognizing said strings via trapdoor, and o is a transform	[18:49]
ascii_butugychag	we have right now a profoundly braindamaged o	[18:50]
ascii_butugychag	that it works at all, to our purpose, is a marvel.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[18:50]
*	hdbuck has quit (Quit: hdbuck)	[18:50]
polarbeard	you can always use meta-make ;)	[18:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4580 @ 0.00057044 = 2.6126 BTC [+]	[18:51]
mircea_popescu	really, a properly behaving o shouldn't be a big deal to write neh ?	[18:52]
mircea_popescu	it's the "clever" one that takes 18bn loc	[18:52]
ascii_butugychag	it kinda reduces to 'p'	[18:52]
ascii_butugychag	incidentally, to answer a question that jurov asked a while ago, it is not only possible to use an arbitrary hash function with v, but even, theoretically, to use none at all.	[18:53]
ascii_butugychag	(the entire file is its own identified)	[18:53]
ascii_butugychag	*identifier	[18:53]
ascii_butugychag	this would result in gargantuan vpatches, but... utterly unassailable.	[18:53]
jurov	and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ?	[18:54]
PeterL	can v press to multiple heads, or do I have to pick one?	[18:54]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: at the same time ?!! why??	[18:55]
jurov	does v allow to press both AB and A' from one repository?	[18:55]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: A and A' are, if dropped in the hopper, equally legit pressings	[18:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14295 @ 0.00057044 = 8.1544 BTC [+]	[18:55]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: a correctly-designed vtron - absolutely will	[18:55]
deedbot-	[Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/qntra-sqntr-january-2016-statement/	[18:55]
jurov	but the actual files must be renamed, no?	[18:55]
PeterL	I mean, I see leafs of malleus_mikehearnification and maxint_locks_corrected, what if I want to include both? or am I misunderstanding what is going on?	[18:56]
polarbeard	why isn't the last version the only valid one?	[18:56]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: my original vtron was controlled by manually selecting patch sets	[18:57]
ascii_butugychag	this is really the best way, imho	[18:57]
PeterL	I am looking at mod6's v, and trying to figure out how to control it?	[18:57]
ascii_butugychag	place the ones you want in a dir, make sure you have the desired seals, and press	[18:57]
mircea_popescu	and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ? << everything is in the mempool al ltime anyway.	[18:57]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: you can do it just as well with his	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	the forget function is not implemented deliberately	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	every node uses its own	[18:58]
ascii_butugychag	my point was that there is not a special knob, you don't need it, your unix file system is the knob	[18:58]
mod6	i know at one point i did negitive tests on this, but my problem in there is idiotic, i was not paying close enough attention	[18:58]
ascii_butugychag	want both? include both, and let it press everything it can see	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	PeterL you specify where you want to end up.	[18:58]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/0DQJDTX.txt << now it works.	[18:58]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PQ6VSR )	[18:58]
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mod6	when you press, if the hash of the pressed file doens't match the expected, it should die right then and there.	[18:59]
polarbeard	I actually do that, but because metamake is really dumb :(	[18:59]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: i still see 'offset' in there?	[18:59]
mod6	thats correct.	[18:59]
ascii_butugychag	ah	[18:59]
mod6	it dies.	[18:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13812 @ 0.00057044 = 7.8789 BTC [+]	[18:59]
mod6	im testing the wrong fucking scalar in my condition :<	[18:59]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: patch .... -F 0 ...	[19:00]
jurov	phf how do you solve multiple versions of one vpatch?	[19:00]
PeterL	(p \| press) (<press_dir> <head>) << so I have to specify the genesis? what is head?	[19:00]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: the genesis is always implicit in the head	[19:00]
ascii_butugychag	thinkaboutit	[19:00]
ascii_butugychag	(all heads have arses)	[19:00]
PeterL	genesis is arse?	[19:00]
ascii_butugychag	aha	[19:01]
PeterL	oh, I was thinking about it upside down, I guess	[19:01]
PeterL	why not call it root?	[19:01]
ascii_butugychag	insufficiently descriptive	[19:02]
PeterL	ok, so what do I use as head? one of the leafs?	[19:02]
ascii_butugychag	genesis is where a v object comes to exist.	[19:02]
ascii_butugychag	PeterL: not necessarily	[19:02]
ascii_butugychag	you can use a non-leaf node as a head	[19:02]
ascii_butugychag	even genesis	[19:02]
ascii_butugychag	try it	[19:02]
ascii_butugychag	if you press to genesis, you get the bitcoin we started with.	[19:03]
PeterL	but if I use a leaf, will it include the other leafs?	[19:03]
jurov	i guess this is not implemented yet, ability to press multiple non-conflicting heads at once	[19:04]
jurov	*leafs	[19:04]
ascii_butugychag	my vtron had it	[19:04]
ascii_butugychag	but in a very primitive way	[19:04]
ascii_butugychag	(you could cut into the middle of a leaf set more or less alphabetically)	[19:04]
ascii_butugychag	my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last.	[19:05]
ascii_butugychag	this would give you the entire tree as represented by your patches+seals+keys set.	[19:05]
mod6	this is the fix: http://dpaste.com/1M96SWN.txt	[19:05]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1o3LI1y )	[19:05]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[19:05]
jurov	!up ascii_butugychag	[19:05]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[19:05]
ascii_butugychag	mod6: i recommend for it to also run patch with F 0	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	(no fuzz)	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	and to die if return code is ever not 0	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	~that way~ you will end with a press of the last makes-sense pressing !	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	instead of rubbish	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	and it will help you to learn what went wrong	[19:06]
ascii_butugychag	think about it:	[19:08]
ascii_butugychag	the result of a 'patch' ever not matching the hash, SHOULD NOT HAPPEN	[19:08]
ascii_butugychag	it is an error condition!	[19:08]
ascii_butugychag	should not be possible at all	[19:08]
mod6	one sec	[19:08]
jurov	why include the context then? use ed output format or such	[19:10]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: perfectly valid idea	[19:10]
ascii_butugychag	jurov: context could, theoretically, be regenerated from the file.	[19:10]
thestringpuller	ed is the best text editor ever invented.	[19:11]
thestringpuller	should be mandatory kids learn to code on that for at least one project.	[19:11]
polarbeard	I'd enjoy no context	[19:11]
ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: ever use 'sam' (editor) ?	[19:13]
thestringpuller	i have not	[19:13]
shinohai	https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/43rggm/coinbase_treats_all_transfers_to_your_account_as/ <<< kek	[19:13]
assbot	Coinbase treats all transfers to your account as (1099) Payments : BitcoinMarkets ... ( http://bit.ly/1o3NkZs )	[19:13]
thestringpuller	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_(text_editor)#/media/File:Sam_text_editor.png << it looks interesting ascii_butugychag	[19:14]
polarbeard	sam, executable strings	[19:14]
ascii_butugychag	what exactly else is a program ?	[19:16]
ascii_butugychag	than 'executable string', l0l	[19:16]
polarbeard	executable ints? :)	[19:16]
ascii_butugychag	shinohai: that article is mega-unsurprising, coinbase is following 'letter of the law' in usa	[19:20]
ascii_butugychag	moved money? 'income'	[19:20]
shinohai	bleh	[19:20]
ascii_butugychag	how are ~they~ to know where you got it.	[19:20]
ascii_butugychag	if i dump a credit card into my own 'paypal' input, they will dutifully tally it up and 'income'	[19:20]
ascii_butugychag	the machine doesn't give a fuck to whom the card belongs	[19:21]
mod6	ascii_butugychag: hey, can you take a look at this? i pressed up to the vpatch in the flow before polars then.. manually patched with -F 0, but didn't seem to do anything:	[19:21]
mod6	http://dpaste.com/1CS7SKN.txt	[19:21]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1o3Oy6Z )	[19:21]
ascii_butugychag	go, build arse-mouth system, rack up $1B in tax, $10M in paypal fee, ahve fun	[19:21]
mod6	what am I missing?	[19:21]
ascii_butugychag	sooo apparently,	[19:23]
ascii_butugychag	'fuzz' refers to ignored context	[19:23]
ascii_butugychag	and offset can't actually be disabled in gnupatch	[19:23]
ascii_butugychag	at least according to the man pages.	[19:24]
mod6	thats what i gather too.	[19:24]
ascii_butugychag	idiocy.	[19:24]
mod6	ok, well, we can worry about that later when we write our own patch-o-matic	[19:24]
mod6	meanwhile, I'll work on an automated test for this change and work on republishing this fix as a one change deal. will be v99995	[19:25]
mod6	sorry folks.	[19:25]
polarbeard	that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it	[19:25]
polarbeard	actually F0 didn't apply offset	[19:29]
polarbeard	http://dpaste.com/226VQYJ.txt	[19:30]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1PeGRRS )	[19:30]
polarbeard	$ echo $?	[19:30]
polarbeard	1	[19:30]
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ben_vulpes	mega lol at coinbase	[19:35]
ben_vulpes	entirely predictable though	[19:35]
*	assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag	[19:36]
shinohai	!up ascii_butugychag	[19:37]
*	assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag	[19:37]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00056976 = 8.2615 BTC [-]	[19:37]
ascii_butugychag	re: block cipher thread: http://cr.yp.to/snuffle.html << interesting, djb	[19:38]
assbot	Snuffle 2005 ... ( http://bit.ly/1o3RznK )	[19:38]
mod6	sigh	[19:42]
ascii_butugychag	so on top of it all... the behaviour isn't standard ?	[19:44]
ascii_butugychag	whod'avethunkit	[19:44]
*	ascii_butugychag bbl	[19:47]
*	ascii_butugychag has quit (Quit: leaving)	[19:47]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3698 @ 0.00057044 = 2.1095 BTC [+]	[20:05]
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punkman	polarbeard: actually F0 didn't apply offset << it should, if you offset the code. but it must find the context verbatim	[20:19]
punkman	http://git.neil.brown.name/?p=wiggle.git might be useful when we have hundreds of patches	[20:20]
assbot	git.neil.brown.name Git - wiggle.git/summary ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEFGUT )	[20:20]
deedbot-	[Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Stressed Out by Twenty One Pilots, translated. - http://www.contravex.com/2016/02/02/stressed-out-by-twenty-one-pilots-translated/	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag> my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last. << this is not a bad approach (for dev work). i wouldn't want it in the press-for-deploy, but different story.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it << lmao. STONE SOUP!	[20:35]
punkman	I'm thinking any diff replacement should do strictly binary diffs, and only include line-oriented context diff as a visual aid	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	punkman i've been thinking about it too, seems in point of fact we're mangling two distinct things. 1) patches-as-code ; 2) patches-as-human-readable.	[20:36]
punkman	F must be lower than number of context lines, so F 3 should do the same as F 1000 in most cases :P	[20:36]
mircea_popescu	basically it's the clearsign issue all over again.	[20:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i think salsa was djb's own version of shiva, ie, "playing with ; don't use in anger"	[20:38]
punkman	djb's ChaCha is getting pretty popular these days	[20:38]
*	wywialm has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[20:39]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00057044 = 7.815 BTC [+]	[20:40]
punkman	"New features of Latin dances: Analysis of Salsa, ChaCha, and Rumba." << lol this title	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	lol	[20:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform btw what about speck, nsa's own rot13 ?	[20:43]
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punkman	http://git.neil.brown.name/?p=wiggle.git;a=blob;f=p.help; hey this guy also likes single letter names, has a "p" program	[20:44]
assbot	git.neil.brown.name Git - wiggle.git/blob - p.help ... ( http://bit.ly/1o43IZX )	[20:44]
*	Tasoshi_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[20:44]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck this shift-and-xor hack-and-slash bs,	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc.	[20:49]
mircea_popescu	https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Tux_ecb.jpg <<< this is what small blocks gets you.	[20:51]
assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1QaNHrC )	[20:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00056976 = 4.4441 BTC [-]	[20:54]
mircea_popescu	basically, do everything exactly opposite to the "wisdom" of a very inept if deeply self-pompositous field	[20:55]
punkman	why not stream cipher?	[21:03]
mircea_popescu	stream cypher = particularly braindamaged blockcypher, ie one with a tiny block/	[21:03]
trinque	anybody recommend a way to import a private key to trb?	[21:12]
*	likemob1 (adf5cb43@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.245.203.67) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[21:13]
shinohai	trinque have used pybitcointools with success	[21:15]
punkman	I remember some mentions of a backport patch for key import	[21:15]
punkman	but really, just create the tx elsewhere	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	actually polarbeard if you're looking for more backportage stuff to do ... rawtx thing.	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	but give it a GOOD read aforehand, it's crappy as found in .8	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	none of this cavalry charging it.	[21:17]
mircea_popescu	!up likemob1	[21:19]
-assbot-	You voiced likemob1 for 30 minutes.	[21:19]
*	assbot gives voice to likemob1	[21:19]
punkman	mircea_popescu: stream cypher = particularly braindamaged blockcypher, ie one with a tiny block << vernam can stream	[21:19]
mircea_popescu	explain this to me.	[21:19]
punkman	I can send arbitrary number of encrypted bits to you, no?	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[21:44]
mircea_popescu	this does not differentiate between stream and block.	[21:45]
BingoBoingo	polarbeard: And after rawtx ported Scheme X11 widget for interacting with shiva over rs-232 would totes make Gavin all Jelly	[21:45]
jurov	X11 over rs232, now that's new to me	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	lol!	[21:47]
jurov	!b 3	[21:47]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/08Y1SNA.txt )	[21:47]
BingoBoingo	jurov: Everything is new	[21:49]
*	assbot removes voice from likemob1	[21:49]
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BingoBoingo	In other news at the end of 2016 GE is discontinuing compact flourescent light bulbs. Nothing of value was lost.	[21:52]
mircea_popescu	heh.	[21:53]
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BingoBoingo	https://archive.is/EylVS	[22:05]
assbot	Bumping into Stallman, again ... ( http://bit.ly/1NOUDsC )	[22:05]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00057044 = 18.4537 BTC [+] {2}	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	that may be the epitome of anti-interesting by now.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394698 << (c) has never been publicly achieved afaik	[22:18]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck thi	[22:18]
BingoBoingo	Yeah. Today was dominated by a bunch of these not quite news things.	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	yawell.	[22:18]
BingoBoingo	Like Amazon opening storefronts	[22:18]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394700 << non-chained blocks of whatever size, get you this	[22:18]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 23:50:52; mircea_popescu: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Tux_ecb.jpg <<< this is what small blocks gets you.	[22:18]
asciilifeform	(for some value of this)	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	only if the block count is large enough.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	otp is... not chained	[22:19]
asciilifeform	otp has no block size	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	the idea that "better box" rather than "larger blocks" prevents from that is not unlike the fundamental idea at the basis of whitening.	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	otp has block size = message size by definition.	[22:20]
asciilifeform	nope	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	show me ?	[22:20]
asciilifeform	in correct otp, you ~never~ get a situation where same block -> same output	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	exactly.	[22:20]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394695 << the motives for usg officially releasing a cryptosystem in 2013 can be discerned only by an expert psychiatrist	[22:22]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 23:42:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw what about speck, nsa's own rot13 ?	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	aha	[22:22]
asciilifeform	(note that speck and simon were ~not~ proclaimed as crown standards, like des or aes)	[22:22]
asciilifeform	just thrown to the peanut gallery, for - apparently - the hell of it	[22:22]
asciilifeform	'looksee! we publish!'	[22:22]
asciilifeform	http://galois.com/blog/2013/06/simon-and-speck-in-cryptol << for connoisseurs	[22:23]
assbot	SIMON and SPECK in Cryptol - Galois, Inc. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PTvpkg )	[22:23]
asciilifeform	especially for ben_vulpes ^	[22:23]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394699 << funnily, maslennikov's b00k was largely about his futile attempts to interest kgb middle management in group-theoretical foundations for new block ciphers	[22:25]
assbot	Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc.	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	aha.	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	this "make the block small" and "make the cipher computable" restraints are EXACTLY wrong.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	they're straight opposite of right.	[22:26]
asciilifeform	computable?	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform eh, you know what i mean. "use xor it's cheap!"	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	fuck that stupid shit. if the computer massaging my 10kb message takes a minute i couldn't care the fuck less - it took me 10 minutes to get all the guns arrayed to make a ml submission.	[22:27]
asciilifeform	thing is, 'use modular multiplication instead! it's costly!' does not automagically yield good cipher	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	i specifically don't fucking want sub second cryptography.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	it shows you're not using the machine.	[22:27]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform absolutely not.	[22:27]
asciilifeform	the field of crypto that has provable hardness foundation is depressingly empty	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	if i tell the woman to "spend an hour cooking, this 30 seconds cookings are bs" this doesn't mean i'm inviting her to pick her nose for 59.5 minutes.	[22:28]
asciilifeform	doesn't even include rsa.	[22:28]
asciilifeform	however, i do find it... interesting, that it is not ~entirely~ empty, but the intersection of it and implementations ~you can get~ .... IS.	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	it's clearly where we must go.	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	from a strategic perspective, that's the spot.	[22:29]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4395 @ 0.00056976 = 2.5041 BTC [-]	[22:30]
asciilifeform	most elementarily,	[22:30]
asciilifeform	otp.	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	dude you think yourself in 1650 or something ?	[22:30]
asciilifeform	good otp is easier now than ever.	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	the punishment for otp is "you may not use computer anymore"	[22:31]
asciilifeform	sure you can.	[22:31]
asciilifeform	it just has to be coin-sized and include thermite.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	"if thge best you can come up with is otp - give me back the cpu and take this mechanical gearbox instead"	[22:32]
asciilifeform	the weak link of ancient otp was always the rng.	[22:32]
asciilifeform	!s würfelgenerator	[22:32]
assbot	0 results for 'w�rfelgenerator' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=w%FCrfelgenerator	[22:32]
asciilifeform	hm	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	!s whoregenerator	[22:32]
assbot	0 results for 'whoregenerator' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=whoregenerator	[22:32]
asciilifeform	http://www.cryptomuseum.com/manuf/mils	[22:32]
assbot	Mils Electronic ... ( http://bit.ly/1PTweK0 )	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform incidentally do you recall that very ingenious thing that worked essentially as a vinyl record player needle but on a random chunk of clay pot ?	[22:33]
asciilifeform	yes	[22:33]
asciilifeform	sigsally	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	sort-of like an extension fo the greek cone items	[22:33]
mircea_popescu	aha	[22:33]
asciilifeform	or hm, nope	[22:34]
asciilifeform	sigsally was the first electronic otp, american, used vocoder (in '40s!) but used ordinary vinyl record	[22:34]
asciilifeform	you might be thinking of 'physically unclonable function' which is a crackpot field	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	nanana	[22:34]
asciilifeform	that afaik never went anywhere serious	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	that's not it. it basically was a mechanical device, worked sort-of like the scytale except on a chunk of a clay item	[22:35]
mircea_popescu	german clockworkery if i recall correctly.	[22:36]
asciilifeform	never heard of such a thing	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	darn where the fuck did i see this thing	[22:37]
asciilifeform	would be interesting to see, considering that i can't get repeatable reading of anything out of a clay pot ~today~	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	it wasn't a pot, it was a slab.	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	basically it had a place you placed the clay fragment in, and a rod which traveled the cracked surface.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	i only ever heard of breaking an object and the halves become identifying passes	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	wasn't very good in that it went back and forth over the distance	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	then again nothing stopped you from servicing it	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	well that's common.	[22:38]
asciilifeform	aha, goes back to at least babylon	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	dja understand how this thing looked or am i not explaining very well ?	[22:39]
asciilifeform	i can nearly picture it.	[22:39]
*	mircea_popescu distinctly recalls the very smoothly polished travel rod	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	which isn't fucking useful.	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	anyway : best ux ever in a mechanical cryptological machine. you could use as many slabs per message as you felt like.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	and your key weighs 500kg!	[22:40]
asciilifeform	and he doesn't like paper otp !	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	hey, nobody said it's cheap.	[22:40]
asciilifeform	at least paper ~burns~	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	but this was a 1700s item im pretty sure	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform clay breaks :)	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	drop the 500kgs, forget about that key lol	[22:41]
asciilifeform	aha and you can load musket with it.	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	anyway - it's not that i don't like paper otp, or otp generally. it's that if that's the best you can do, you should have been a clockmaker	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	so as not to say "should have been a shoemaker"	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	dun need computers for otp.	[22:42]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00056573 = 20.8754 BTC [-] {7}	[22:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22881 @ 0.00056354 = 12.8944 BTC [-] {3}	[22:46]
asciilifeform	actually for many years i have thought about the ideal electric otp.	[22:54]
asciilifeform	it would, likely, be ~electrochemical~	[22:54]
asciilifeform	consider:	[22:54]
asciilifeform	the ideal otp machine:	[22:54]
asciilifeform	1) the random bits are born all at once, rather than written in one (or machine word) at a time from some specially-built electronic widget	[22:54]
asciilifeform	2) are born on the two (or more) carriers at the same time	[22:55]
asciilifeform	that then go their separate ways;	[22:55]
asciilifeform	3) come out one at a time	[22:55]
asciilifeform	4) are, ideally, erased irrevocably by so doing, or at least erasable in reasonably small chunks (when used) and destroyable all at once (when you pull the pin)	[22:56]
asciilifeform	5) cannot under any circumstances be ~read~ all at once or quickly enough to be considered 'all at once' for practical purposes of enemy capture & device switcheroo	[22:56]
asciilifeform	each of these 5 pieces contains a number of sub-boojums	[22:57]
asciilifeform	e.g., 1 and 2 imply that there are sufficient bits per entropy without having to resort to whitenings or distillation	[22:58]
asciilifeform	(the former being an exercise in self-delusion, the latter - adds complexity and potentially buggy or noisy circuitry)	[22:58]
asciilifeform	some of the variants i've envisioned include.... a certain kind of battery, where ion gradients vary when a molten electrolyte cools, and it then cut into 2+ strips, and 'burned' like a candle	[22:59]
asciilifeform	emitting two sets of ~same static waveform at once	[23:00]
asciilifeform	and... but why go into it here. anybody who wants this, can think on his own.	[23:00]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if you feel like entertaining some crackpottery, suppose a hash function defined as follows : a) calculate PM ; pM ; P!M ; p!M where P and p are the perimeters of polygons of K sides circumscribing and inscribed respectively in the same circle and !M is the bitwise negation of M ; b) calculate V1 = 2pMPM/(PM+pM) ; V2 = sqrt(pMPM) ; V3 = 2p!MP!M/(P!M+p!M) ; V4 = sqrt(p!MP!M) ; c) calculate H = (V1 - V2) *	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	(V3 - V4) and finally d) return blocksize digits from the key-th position in H.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	how'd you go about attacking this ?	[23:02]
mircea_popescu	(and from 1 i see you like small blocks just abour as much as i do)	[23:03]
asciilifeform	i would have to think about it	[23:03]
asciilifeform	but gauss could prolly tell you right now!	[23:03]
asciilifeform	wake'im up.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu	lol.	[23:04]
*	AaronvanW has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[23:05]
mircea_popescu	(basically - they're the classical (archimedan!) approximations of pi, for the text and reversed text, to an arbitrary precision. makes for an eminently tunable hashfunction)	[23:06]
asciilifeform	terrible hash function	[23:06]
asciilifeform	bailey, borwein, & plouffe.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	do you see what i did here ?	[23:06]
asciilifeform	(iirc plouffe was the worker bee and the other 2 were parasites)	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	it is apparently a lot easier to follow math in words than in symbols, EVEN FOR YOU	[23:07]
asciilifeform	why the bitwise negation ?	[23:07]
asciilifeform	actually i am writing it out in symbols!111111	[23:07]
asciilifeform	to follow at all!11	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	HA!	[23:07]
mircea_popescu	you took a second to answer after my 2nd line, minutes after the first produced nothing! timing attack on your brain!	[23:08]
asciilifeform	clearly!1	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	lol	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	anyway - being able to calculate pi itself does not actually help here.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	because we're specifically collecting hte noise of the formula against the text and its mirror, rather than pi itself.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	hence the substractions.	[23:09]
asciilifeform	the root ops go poorly with bit arithmetic	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	so they do.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	GOOD.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	fuck the fucking computing-centring paradigm in crypotography	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	it's your tool not your fucking master.	[23:10]
asciilifeform	then let's have the candle.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	no.	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	it's your tool, it must be used.	[23:11]
asciilifeform	then you're stuck with wandering decimal crud	[23:11]
asciilifeform	and titanic lookup tables, etc.	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	sure. anyway bignum operations is a solved problem	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	even in lisp	[23:11]
asciilifeform	'even' l0l	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	:)	[23:11]
asciilifeform	(the original home of bignum)	[23:11]
mircea_popescu	(my trolling is ever more refined)	[23:11]
asciilifeform	but decimal soup is still ick	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	good.	[23:12]
asciilifeform	you won't have repeatable output	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[23:12]
asciilifeform	no repeat, no decrypt	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	hash function not cipjher	[23:12]
asciilifeform	then works	[23:12]
*	mircea_popescu is still curious to hear how people'd attack, if anyone cares.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu	esp re preimage.	[23:13]
trinque	shinohai: I don't see anything in pybitcointools to shove a privkey into a wallet.dat	[23:14]
asciilifeform	i will prolly care. on the train, some time soon.	[23:14]
asciilifeform	in other nyooz, i bought that quiet fan kakobrekla recommended ages ago	[23:15]
kakobrekla	and its utter shit you will say	[23:15]
asciilifeform	and laughed when i uncrated it and saw that it ships in a gaudy display case, with clear window, and velcro (!) lid	[23:15]
trinque	also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do?	[23:15]
kakobrekla	whut?	[23:15]
asciilifeform	and was laughing until i saw that it starts spinning when i turn the box a bit !	[23:15]
asciilifeform	shows off the quality of the bearing.	[23:15]
asciilifeform	no 'civilian' pc fan i ever bought, behaved this way.	[23:15]
kakobrekla	aha yea	[23:16]
asciilifeform	i haven't even plugged the thing in yet, and already impressed.	[23:16]
kakobrekla	the 'be quiet' ones that is?	[23:16]
asciilifeform	aha	[23:16]
asciilifeform	'be quiet silent wings 2'	[23:16]
kakobrekla	they also spin at the lowest rpm of all the high end fans i tested	[23:17]
phf	jurov: i don't handle patch conflicts yet, until there's some kommunitee resolution. and if the answer is "remove them from your patches" probably going to add some kind of tree walk in addition to topo. fwiw right now on the site you can see patches that wouldn't press cleanly in "pink"	[23:17]
trinque	anyone? given a privkey in hand, how the hell do I get trb to send some coin? I do not want to change addresses and nothing I find can chew on this wallet	[23:17]
phf	jurov: like http://btcbase.org/patches/polarbeard_fix_instance_print , asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring don't press because presumably conflict with programmable-versionstring malleus_mikehearnificarum in order. no idea why polarbeard_better_log_messages polarbeard_fix_instance_print don't press though	[23:19]
assbot	polarbeard_fix_instance_print ... ( http://bit.ly/207AHbw )	[23:19]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394903 << you ~know~ wat to do !	[23:21]
assbot	Logged on 03-02-2016 02:14:49; trinque: also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do?	[23:21]
asciilifeform	implement it!	[23:21]
asciilifeform	in shiva.	[23:21]
trinque	oh I'm already looking at it :p	[23:22]
asciilifeform	(btc-eat-tx vector)	[23:22]
asciilifeform	not so hard	[23:22]
phf	kek, i know why polarbeard_better_log_messages don't press. it depends on asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum, which is replaced	[23:22]
asciilifeform	iirc mod6 pointed this out earlier	[23:23]
phf	yeah, i'm not up to date on logs	[23:23]
asciilifeform	btw i don't understand why phf's thing needs to 'handle' patch conflicts	[23:24]
asciilifeform	just needs to display the tree	[23:24]
asciilifeform	from which is ought to be ~apparent~ what can coexist and what cannot	[23:24]
asciilifeform	for such is v	[23:24]
phf	well, the idea is that you want to click on the patch and see how to press it. if i were to click in polarbeard_* presumably i want to press the tree that includes old malleus?	[23:25]
asciilifeform	yes!	[23:25]
asciilifeform	anything that can sit down into a vtron, is pressable.	[23:25]
asciilifeform	by definition.	[23:25]
asciilifeform	and it ought to tell you how.	[23:25]
phf	right, but doing just topo won't tell you that	[23:26]
asciilifeform	the simplest algo, for all patchons in patch, dive down recursively and find ancestor.	[23:26]
asciilifeform	when you get to the genesis, you're done.	[23:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform> i will prolly care. on the train, some time soon. << the reason i give it is mostly didactic. it plainly shows what i mean re proper use of math and treating your computer like a tool to do a job rather than treating your job as something to be adjusted to fit the computer without having to delve into complexities and subtleties of number theory etc. something as commonplace as "use the intervals of conf	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	idence of a polynomial method to estimate a transcendent" is really good enough. and it exhibits all those important properties : such as, you can ~actually~ use infinite message, and you can also use any arbitrary padding you like, up to infinity - the hash function won't complain. and you can want it to shit out any block size you want it to shit out - also won't complain, but give EQUALLY MEANINGFUL results. whether	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	you ask for 3 or 13 or 294 digits.	[23:27]
asciilifeform	(~a~ genesis, i should say)	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	trinque> also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do? << cry all the way home, we don't have it yet. backport it ? :D	[23:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i am quite certain that you knew this, but pretty much all published block ciphers date to the dark ages, when transistor was painfully expensive	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	i do.	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	still, some points have to be made	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	REPEATEDLY	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	also, this is NOT a block cipher	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	but anyway.	[23:28]
asciilifeform	age of cheap transistor had a faux-renaissance where folks used the cheap transistors for elaborate self-delusion - 'this is sooo complicated, nobody!1111 could crack'	[23:28]
asciilifeform	which led to a pile of corpses and a reaction.	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	which enemy, naturally, took full advantage of	[23:29]
asciilifeform	and here we are, somewhere after this.	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	whereas the correct solution is to stick to the math. computers are fucking tractors not farm designers.	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	but hey, generation of cad and web and whatnot.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	cud.	[23:29]
mircea_popescu	no i mean the autocad thing.	[23:29]
asciilifeform	yes	[23:29]
asciilifeform	and i meant cud.	[23:30]
asciilifeform	as in, what ruminant ruminates over	[23:30]
asciilifeform	or, alternatively,	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which, i was walking with a woman i walked with all over the fucking world, and she spontaneoushly said	[23:30]
asciilifeform	computer-UNaided designs.	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	"wtf is with these large buildings they're all ugly in the same way"	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	and i explained to her what autocad was	[23:30]
mircea_popescu	and she was horrified ever since.	[23:30]
asciilifeform	thing is that brutalism pre-dates cad.	[23:30]
phf	moar corbusier	[23:32]
asciilifeform	cars all looking entirely alike are a better example	[23:34]
danielpbarron	https://twitter.com/swiftonsecurity/status/694686642318118913 >> "We're going to increase the block size and make more of them. Everyone should be able to mine a block." (picture of Bernie Sanders at some rally)	[23:36]
mircea_popescu	hahaah what ?>	[23:36]
danielpbarron	it's some account that's fairly popular in the twatter circles of people who use terms like opsec and infosec, pointing out that the proponents of larger blocks sound like the guy who's running for president as a socialist	[23:38]
mircea_popescu	http://plouffe.fr/ << in other news, plouffe's site is gone.	[23:38]
assbot	Page Maison de Simon Plouffe Home Page ... ( http://bit.ly/207Dbql )	[23:38]
mircea_popescu	ftr, that's where the now-famous first of many "calculate nth decimal of transcendent without calculating the others" thing was published	[23:39]
asciilifeform	holy shit, plouffe?	[23:40]
asciilifeform	!?!	[23:40]
asciilifeform	desaparecido ?	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	aye.	[23:40]
asciilifeform	https://oeis.org/wiki/Plouffe's_Inverter << also gone...	[23:41]
assbot	Plouffe's Inverter - OeisWiki ... ( http://bit.ly/207Dqlc )	[23:41]
mircea_popescu	guy really gave numeric appoaches a serious push.	[23:41]
asciilifeform	http://xahlee.info/math/Simon_Plouffe_pi_formula.html << obligatory xah lee	[23:41]
assbot	Math Politics: Simon Plouffe and nth Digit Formula of π ... ( http://bit.ly/207Dtxw )	[23:41]
asciilifeform	^ re: the perelmanization of ploufee	[23:41]
asciilifeform	*plouffe	[23:41]
*	adlie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[23:42]
asciilifeform	doesn't sprechen the inglisch so well, but not hard to understand:	[23:43]
asciilifeform	'Peter Borwein wanted very much that I do a Ph. D. on the ISC but he wanted also to publish (with his name of course) an article before I deposit the thesis. Again the same story was going on, these 2 guys are so greedy I can't believe it. The behavior they had with me was not exclusive, especially Peter Borwein he was the same with most of his students, especially the good ones, sucking the maximum. Jon is the same but he has	[23:43]
asciilifeform	more talent in politics (more money too). He is good but has a tendency to site himself a lot. He thinks that if he had the idea of the sum of 2 numbers at one point in his life then all formulas in mathematics are his own discovery. About David H. Bailey. He came after the discovery of the formula and my small basic program , I had also a fortran version. This is where Peter Borwein suggested to add him as a collaborator to	[23:43]
asciilifeform	the discovery since he contributed to it (as he said), this is my second big mistake. Of course he accepted to co-write the article, who wouldn't ?! David H. Bailey (and Ferguson) are the authors of the PSLQ program. That program is the version of the Pari-Gp program. I used it a little it is true, but what made the discovery was pari-Gp and Maple interface program I had. So actually, that person has nothing to do w	[23:43]
asciilifeform	ith the discovery of that algorithm and very little to do with the finding of the formula. The mistake was mine. Saying that Bailey found the formula is like saying that the formula was found by the Maple and Basic program.'	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	did i read this exact thing before re wolfram ?	[23:43]
asciilifeform	wolfram did it to somebody else	[23:43]
asciilifeform	re: turing-complete cellular automaton proof	[23:43]
mircea_popescu	but the same text!	[23:43]
asciilifeform	not same text. but same bullet hole, same corpse.	[23:44]
asciilifeform	all bullet holes are quite alike.	[23:44]
mircea_popescu	indeed.	[23:45]
asciilifeform	one strong ox and two very, very effective plowing flies.	[23:46]
asciilifeform	http://www.pi314.net/eng/bellard.php << l0l! same bellard as of qemu and tinycc and many other fun things	[23:47]
assbot	The world of Pi - Bellard ... ( http://bit.ly/1o4vi9m )	[23:47]
asciilifeform	found improvement of plouffe's algo.	[23:47]
asciilifeform	'world is small'	[23:47]
shinohai	trinque: sorry 'twas this mod6 and I used to do it: https://github.com/jackjack-jj/pywallet	[23:48]
assbot	jackjack-jj/pywallet · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1o4vlSs )	[23:48]
asciilifeform	https://github.com/17Q4MX2hmktmpuUKHFuoRmS5MfB5XPbhod/dropzone-lib << lulzy derpatron from the spam in mircea_popescu's comment section	[23:57]
assbot	GitHub - 17Q4MX2hmktmpuUKHFuoRmS5MfB5XPbhod/dropzone-lib: An Anonymous Peer-To-Peer Local Contraband Marketplace ... ( http://bit.ly/1o4wyJx )	[23:57]
*	p15 (~p15@12.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:57]

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