Forum logs for 03 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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funkenstein_ http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394898 <-- a backport patch of privkey import/export should you be so inclined to look: http://frass.woodcoin.org/dev/funken_prikey_tools.vpatch [00:05]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 02:13:21; trinque: shinohai: I don't see anything in pybitcointools to shove a privkey into a wallet.dat [00:05]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/207Gjmf ) [00:05]
funkenstein_ ooh cool "physically unclonable functions". is that another way to say reality? [00:08]
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mod6 funkenstein_: hey, did you write that one? [00:13]
funkenstein_ mod6 yeah, a few months ago. [00:15]
mod6 oh awesome, did it make it into the ML? [00:15]
funkenstein_ it got hung up when i added another patch "chuck_checkpoints" with mistake.. now sits there for eyeballs if anyone is interested [00:16]
funkenstein_ there was some tree structure problem with original mailing list submission iirc [00:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00056509 = 6.0747 BTC [+] {2} [00:18]
funkenstein_ mod6, keep up the good work, tis nice to see some activity [00:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00057043 = 14.0326 BTC [+] {3} [00:21]
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phf ( http://btcbase.org/patches/funken_prikey_tools ) [00:23]
assbot funken_prikey_tools ... ( http://bit.ly/1o4zK86 ) [00:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7142 @ 0.00056509 = 4.0359 BTC [-] {2} [00:26]
mod6 ;;later tell funkenstein_ thanks. yeah, that patch will be useful. will try to get it in right after the release. [00:27]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:27]
shinohai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395010 <<< nifty! thx [00:27]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 03:05:02; funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394898 <-- a backport patch of privkey import/export should you be so inclined to look: http://frass.woodcoin.org/dev/funken_prikey_tools.vpatch [00:27]
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trinque http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/51bcb086-22bb-4daf-aad2-f2da5a837e87/ << anyone tell why that's an invalid transaction? when I sign it and feed to btcd, it tells me my R value is negative. [00:43]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/207LkuY ) [00:43]
trinque hanbot: this is holding up your deed til I find out why it's happening [00:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20172 @ 0.00056108 = 11.3181 BTC [-] {3} [00:48]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.0005679 = 1.5901 BTC [+] {3} [00:56]
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mod6 trinque: what version of bitcoin? [01:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12286 @ 0.00055969 = 6.8764 BTC [-] {3} [01:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30700 @ 0.00057043 = 17.5122 BTC [+] {2} [01:56]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform anything in there ? [02:08]
mircea_popescu 'world is small' << for any definition of "world" that excludes most idiots. [02:09]
mircea_popescu a backport patch of privkey import/export should you be so inclined to look: http://frass.woodcoin.org/dev/funken_prikey_tools.vpatch << hey check that out! nice. [02:09]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/207Gjmf ) [02:09]
mircea_popescu ima have to digest this. [02:09]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00057044 = 1.0838 BTC [+] [02:11]
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pete_dushenski ^a test. you might see me logging in as 'pete_d_out' in the next week or so. if you do, please to +v! [02:17]
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mircea_popescu http://i.imgur.com/uH7jjhF.jpg << for the lulz. [02:19]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NPc4ZY ) [02:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11019 @ 0.00056134 = 6.1854 BTC [-] {4} [02:19]
mircea_popescu trinque this sounds like a bug in either the signing process or the btcd. [02:21]
mircea_popescu how does the signed txn look ? [02:21]
danielpbarron what is that toomim or something? [02:23]
pete_dushenski l0l! [02:23]
pete_dushenski i was thinking "burned out movie star" [02:23]
* danielpbarron doesn't know what he looks like but can only assume.. [02:23]
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mircea_popescu it is a bitcoin expert / gavin economist / miner leader and otherwise important reddit person. [02:29]
pete_dushenski luke-jr ? [02:29]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394302 << waitwut. that's a tidy sum. [02:40]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 19:41:01; jurov: princessnell: you have here 15675 s.qntr shares, want to do anything with them? [02:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.0005697 = 3.817 BTC [+] {3} [02:42]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1394262 << badass. [02:42]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 18:01:26; danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-02-2016#1393853 << I met the guy at both PaulFest and PorcFest (pictured https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bre5M-MIMAEVoHf.jpg:large ) [02:42]
danielpbarron I chatted him up too; he was a bit too socialist for my liking [02:43]
pete_dushenski the 'einstein' expression mighta given that away [02:43]
pete_dushenski https://www.viewfoo.com/uploads/images/702_1433440838_albert-einstein.jpg << compare and contrast [02:44]
danielpbarron heh [02:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00057043 = 9.3836 BTC [+] {2} [02:52]
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danielpbarron https://twitter.com/FreeStateNH/status/694763068010713088 >> We did it! 20,000 SIGNERS! @NHLibertyForum is gonna ROCK! Esp w/ Edward @Snowden speaking! http://NHLibertyForum.com << so it finally happened. Let's see how many actually move. [03:07]
assbot Liberty Forum ... ( http://bit.ly/20oMvvy ) [03:07]
deedbot- [Trilema] Black Book - http://trilema.com/2016/black-book/ [03:07]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron wassat ? [03:11]
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danielpbarron the idea was to nag as many people as possible into at least ~saying~ that they'd move to New Hampsire if 19.999k others said the same [03:12]
danielpbarron and that once they all got there, they could finally change the government for good or something [03:13]
danielpbarron thing started a decade ago at least, so it's been a long time coming [03:13]
mircea_popescu oh that, right. [03:14]
BingoBoingo 20,000 people is enough for three rifle brigades and a support component [03:14]
mircea_popescu 20k isn't really enough to move nh tho is it ? [03:14]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo no, more than half of these are women. [03:14]
mircea_popescu it's just enough for half a concentration camp, really. [03:15]
danielpbarron a good percent of the 20k are probably dead by now [03:15]
BingoBoingo Crushing my dreams with you having come from a country with history. [03:15]
danielpbarron happy to say I didn't cave in to their very persistent nagging when i was at porcfest, so I will not have to reneg on this moving nonsense [03:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.00055972 = 15.896 BTC [-] {3} [03:20]
BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2016/black-book/#comment-116421 [03:21]
assbot Black Book on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/20oO0da ) [03:21]
mircea_popescu lol [03:27]
pete_dushenski ;;tslb [03:34]
gribble Time since last block: 21 minutes and 23 seconds [03:34]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3650 @ 0.00055937 = 2.0417 BTC [-] {3} [03:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00056868 = 6.881 BTC [+] {2} [03:46]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15665 @ 0.00055933 = 8.7619 BTC [-] {2} [04:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056463 = 11.6878 BTC [+] {5} [04:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14150 @ 0.00057045 = 8.0719 BTC [+] [04:20]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 7.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b86 [04:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6825 @ 0.0005596 = 3.8193 BTC [-] [04:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00056302 = 2.1395 BTC [+] {3} [05:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00056545 = 1.2157 BTC [+] [05:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00055933 = 3.5238 BTC [-] {2} [05:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6548 @ 0.00056102 = 3.6736 BTC [+] {2} [06:03]
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polarbeard http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394710 << will work on this [06:17]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 00:15:59; mircea_popescu: actually polarbeard if you're looking for more backportage stuff to do ... rawtx thing. [06:17]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00056678 = 6.8864 BTC [+] {3} [06:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00057045 = 11.1238 BTC [+] [06:54]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21663 @ 0.00057045 = 12.3577 BTC [+] [07:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10121 @ 0.00057045 = 5.7735 BTC [+] [07:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00057045 = 7.7581 BTC [+] [07:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5373 @ 0.00056542 = 3.038 BTC [-] {2} [07:28]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00056917 = 6.3747 BTC [+] {2} [08:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00057044 = 7.5583 BTC [+] {2} [08:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00057045 = 25.2709 BTC [+] [08:45]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00056888 = 8.1634 BTC [-] [09:54]
jurov ;;tmsr [10:11]
gribble Error: "tmsr" is not a valid command. [10:11]
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asciilifeform 5x19x141x248.static-customer.iz.ertelecom.ru << in mircea_popescu's trb fleet ? [10:21]
asciilifeform in other news, zoolag was blackholed for a record-breaking 8 hours. [10:30]
asciilifeform the situation with 'all connections are equal' MUST DIE. [10:30]
asciilifeform it is idiocy, plain and simple. [10:31]
asciilifeform 'hobo in the alley has same right to impregnate wife as master of the house' or how did mircea_popescu put it. [10:31]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 18.41463281 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b87 [10:31]
asciilifeform of the things that most must die, it is this, verily. [10:31]
copypaste woah [10:31]
copypaste 18BTC on no [10:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00056888 = 1.9911 BTC [-] [10:56]
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mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1394710 << will work on this << cool. hey funkenstein_ if you're going to rebase your patch to current tree i'm going to consider it also. hurry up tho lol. [11:01]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 00:15:59; mircea_popescu: actually polarbeard if you're looking for more backportage stuff to do ... rawtx thing. [11:01]
mircea_popescu copypaste> 18BTC on no << his fortunes markedly changed past coupla weeks it seems. [11:02]
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copypaste he lost one caucus narrowly [11:03]
copypaste caucuses are not all or nothing [11:04]
copypaste he's only one seat behind after the first state [11:04]
copypaste i think he's doing quite well, i wouldn't be sure enough to put 18BTC on it that's for sure [11:04]
PeterL so maybe he wins new hampshire next week, then we will see a bunch of yes bets? [11:04]
mircea_popescu darn that bet comment section is something else. [11:04]
mircea_popescu PeterL likely. [11:04]
mircea_popescu copypaste i think the perception (at least my perception at any rate) is that he's a momentum player. all he has on his side is the image of winning, no further substance. [11:05]
mircea_popescu for which reason, not-winning is a kiss of death for him. [11:05]
copypaste ah, i see what you mean [11:05]
mircea_popescu the way it wouldn't be for obama. he was, throughout, a loser. losing doesn't affect losers as it affects winners. [11:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21657 @ 0.00056933 = 12.33 BTC [+] [11:08]
copypaste anyway, i have .2 on yes. his sureness will only enrich me >:) [11:11]
copypaste (if i'm right) [11:11]
mircea_popescu hehe. [11:12]
mircea_popescu anyway, the best thing hilary could do for the cause of lulz if she won would be [11:12]
mircea_popescu to take trump as vp [11:12]
PeterL looks like there is no bet for cruz to get nomination? [11:13]
mircea_popescu well if there isn't make it . [11:13]
copypaste make it so i can vote on no [11:15]
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PeterL and speaking of presidential politics: rand paul just announced todayhe is dropping out of the race [11:31]
PeterL so does the rand paul bet get settled as "no" now, or does it have to wait until the republican convention in the summer? [11:31]
mircea_popescu prolly gets settled. [11:34]
mircea_popescu say something there at any rate. [11:34]
PeterL commented on the bet page. [11:36]
PeterL I wonder if the other candidates who got lower votes in Iowa than Rand will drop out too? [11:38]
mircea_popescu i wonder if rand will spend the next 50 years with a tiny rabid fanbase and a few %s each election. [11:39]
mircea_popescu and as a side wonder, i wonder how many people even knew iowa was a state. [11:39]
PeterL it in the animaniacs sond of all the state names, so therefore we all know it, right? [11:40]
PeterL *song [11:40]
mircea_popescu lol [11:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00056933 = 1.9927 BTC [+] [11:46]
mircea_popescu lol so the redditard/tardstalk/whatever idiot parade settled on "we know better than mp because random derp said we do" ? [11:52]
mircea_popescu fun. [11:52]
mircea_popescu here's something to help BingoBoingo pass the winter : http://www.nairaland.com/attachments/1848712_1420843killercurves3_jpegf7a5386b784f877d48afebd2b0fb0ea2 [12:12]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/2092VTd ) [12:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46900 @ 0.00057043 = 26.7532 BTC [+] {2} [12:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00056888 = 1.1378 BTC [-] [12:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15100 @ 0.00056844 = 8.5834 BTC [-] {2} [12:32]
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thestringpuller !up ascii_butugychag [12:39]
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punkman https://blockchain.info/charts/transaction-fees-usd?showDataPoints=false&timespan=1year&show_header=true&daysAverageString=7&scale=0&address= not bad [12:57]
assbot Bitcoin Transaction Fees in USD ... ( http://bit.ly/1SY414Z ) [12:57]
mircea_popescu aha. [12:58]
mircea_popescu up to 1-200k a day it can keep going. that's finally a relevant metric worth considering. [12:59]
punkman https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaOfMvMUAAAHc59.jpg:large [13:08]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SY584B ) [13:08]
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polarbeard incest: https://github.com/polarbeard/trb [13:21]
assbot GitHub - polarbeard/trb: The Real Bitcoin™ ... ( http://bit.ly/1QcCPJQ ) [13:21]
polarbeard actually git comes handy to manage trb patch-sets [13:22]
mircea_popescu punkman i dunno how much i credit this accounting approach. [13:22]
mircea_popescu sort of like counting the fucks over your life. odds are the most times you fucked the women you liked least. it's how it works for most people. [13:22]
mircea_popescu einstein comes up with "god doesn't roll dice", switzerland gets +1, newton comes up with calculus "great britain" gets +1 ? [13:24]
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mircea_popescu science has no country. the pretense to the contrary is not unlike some derps sitting on reddit going "people whose names start with m are more great than people whose names start with i because mp > indiancandy so THERE!11" [13:24]
mircea_popescu review the letters, the reason calculus was invented as well as documented has everything to do with newton being part of the b-a of his time, going under the name "lion's claw" and ~0 to do with the happenstance that some derp battling hygiene wore a hunk of metal now and again for a hat. [13:26]
mircea_popescu polarbeard lol that should be lulzy. [13:27]
polarbeard next step is to get svn involved somehow [13:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00056717 = 6.5792 BTC [-] {4} [13:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17506 @ 0.0005651 = 9.8926 BTC [-] {3} [13:29]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [13:39]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [13:39]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:39]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: about sendtawtx I've found this material: http://dpaste.com/1P62G6W [13:40]
assbot dpaste: 1P62G6W ... ( http://bit.ly/1JYiATu ) [13:40]
ascii_butugychag http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395170 << at least 2 people did this, for some reason, before [13:40]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 16:21:04; polarbeard: incest: https://github.com/polarbeard/trb [13:40]
ascii_butugychag ( ben_vulpes ? ) [13:40]
ascii_butugychag i really don't see the appeal, esp. now that phf has the colourized viewer thing [13:40]
ascii_butugychag (which ~really~ needs to be come the canonical patch swallower and lxr replacement ) [13:41]
ascii_butugychag srsly lxr is lame [13:41]
polarbeard ascii_butugychag: I pushed just 4 fun, I actually just need git to manage my branch with the fancy logs [13:41]
mircea_popescu the one sad part is that the selector magic seems to not work uniformly over browsers [13:41]
polarbeard I tried plain fs but too much cd'ing around and got confused [13:42]
* mircea_popescu refers http://dpaste.com/1P62G6W to teh foundation [13:42]
thestringpuller lxr? [13:42]
ascii_butugychag http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395141 << when americans stuff ballot box, they like to set it up as 'dark horse candidate' [13:42]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 14:12:43; PeterL: looks like there is no bet for cruz to get nomination? [13:42]
ascii_butugychag !s lxr [13:42]
assbot 151 results for 'lxr' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lxr [13:42]
ascii_butugychag http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected << y'know, THAT thing [13:43]
assbot Satoshi asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaeKaR ) [13:43]
ascii_butugychag right now i'm stuck with it [13:43]
polarbeard oh, ouch, eyes hurt [13:43]
ascii_butugychag i refuse to read the code in anything where i can't click an identifier and get concordance [13:43]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected&_i=SIGHASH_ALL << it does some things! [13:44]
ascii_butugychag (yes, this includes paper book, which HAD FUCKING BETTER have concordance indices in all margins on every page) [13:44]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: you are so demanding! [13:44]
ascii_butugychag i do NOT have the time, energy, or inclindation to fucking HUNT for 'where is this defined' [13:44]
thestringpuller isn't that what IDE is for? [13:45]
mircea_popescu http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected&_i=uint64 << pick a reference, it takes you to the reference. [13:45]
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* Disconnected (Remote host closed socket). [13:45]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [13:47]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [13:47]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 16:58:12 2014 [13:47]
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-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), send me "!up" in a private message to get an OTP. You must have a sufficient WoT rating. If you do not have a WoT account or sufficient rating, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary voice. [13:47]
ascii_butugychag (or rather, the pisshole that then existed there) [13:47]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [13:47]
mircea_popescu srsly ascii_butugychag : http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected&_i=uint64 [13:47]
assbot Satoshi asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected identifier search: uint64 ... ( http://bit.ly/1JYjwHJ ) [13:47]
mircea_popescu click on definition, see http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected#0023 [13:47]
mircea_popescu etc. [13:47]
assbot Satoshi asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected/src/serialize.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1JYjxeI ) [13:47]
ascii_butugychag aha but this all needs to be in 1 place [13:48]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: I read newton's calculus wasn't actually released. it was lebiniz who published it. [13:48]
ascii_butugychag and be vtronic. [13:48]
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mircea_popescu yaya. but lxr is still pretty good, and a good basis for vtronic same-thing [13:48]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: it is partly why we use l's notation [13:48]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395211 << give me teenaged zimbabwe girl of my choice, i'll einstein her. [13:49]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 16:46:27; ascii_butugychag: (or rather, the pisshole that then existed there) [13:49]
mircea_popescu the country really has NOTHING to do with it. [13:49]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: actually lxr is ~profoundly~ retarded in that i can't link to line numbers [13:49]
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mircea_popescu i just linked to line numbers above [13:49]
mircea_popescu #0023 part. [13:49]
ascii_butugychag hm [13:49]
ascii_butugychag nm i was thinking of the earlier thing [13:49]
mircea_popescu you gotta simmer down with the readily set wrath bit! [13:49]
ascii_butugychag that we junked [13:49]
ascii_butugychag anyway, a thing that gives vtronic lxr that also would eat patches and let you walk the vtree, would be ~the~ answer. [13:50]
mircea_popescu aye. [13:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20653 @ 0.00057045 = 11.7815 BTC [+] [13:51]
mircea_popescu splendor of splendors. and if we can somehow merge the eating so both the current model and an error-passing irc bot based method exist... [13:51]
mircea_popescu jurov really can't be expected to baby people sending stuff WRONGLY for the rest of his days. [13:51]
mircea_popescu gotta make a bot, that'll say "hey dummy... you only put the sig in!" [13:51]
ascii_butugychag he's prolly almost as tired of reading'em as i am of sending [13:51]
thestringpuller jurov-bot will do babysitting in future [13:52]
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polarbeard jubot [13:52]
mircea_popescu last time i did it it went flawlessly. the time before that, i took three tries because i fucked up twice. [13:52]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: have you carried out experiments re: blackholes nodes ? [13:52]
mircea_popescu thoroughly pebkac issues fwis. [13:52]
mircea_popescu some. [13:52]
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mircea_popescu oddly enough i don't get blackholed nearly as often as you do o.O [13:52]
ascii_butugychag i can say at this point that it is not a network issue as such [13:53]
ascii_butugychag restart - always cures [13:53]
mircea_popescu i dunno what it is, i've never seen it before trb myself, nor a really good one since. [13:53]
mircea_popescu 8 hrs ? srsly ? [13:53]
ascii_butugychag blackhole results when the worker thread (the one that handles nearly everything) is wedged [13:53]
ascii_butugychag while the network thread continues to accept connections [13:53]
ascii_butugychag 8hrs until i reset it. [13:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8604 @ 0.00056058 = 4.8232 BTC [-] {2} [13:54]
punkman there have been a lot of DoS bugs since 0.5.3 [13:54]
punkman and probably not mentioned in changelogs either [13:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4896 @ 0.00055995 = 2.7415 BTC [-] [13:56]
ascii_butugychag what i do know is that -connect nodes within my walls do not ever blackhole. [13:56]
mircea_popescu obviously. why not be useless to the bitter end. power rangering ftw! [13:56]
ascii_butugychag nor does idem, running on SAME BOX as zoolag in parallel with it and -connected to it and the other trbs. [13:56]
ascii_butugychag (yes i have two blockchains, different users, etc on it) [13:57]
ascii_butugychag one of the reasons i wrote shiva, [13:59]
ascii_butugychag is so that we can get to a place where there is NEVER a situation of 'i wonder wtf the node is doing' [13:59]
thestringpuller the power rangers seem to be able to line up gullible investors better than zuckerberg and that napster guy...justin timberlake was it? [13:59]
mircea_popescu eh get out. [14:00]
ascii_butugychag does nobody but me actually watch their trb logs ? [14:02]
ascii_butugychag these things spend a good chunk of their time not node-in !1111 [14:02]
ascii_butugychag *-ing [14:02]
thestringpuller i thought tail -f debug.log was the only way to see what was actually going on [14:02]
ascii_butugychag and then you people wonder why your tx is stuck on mars without a return ticket [14:02]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: it doesn't tell you worth shit re: a stuck node. [14:03]
thestringpuller i haven't experienced that problem yet. [14:03]
ascii_butugychag do you have the log scrolling 24/7 ? [14:03]
ascii_butugychag chances are you simply aren't looking. [14:03]
ascii_butugychag if you haven't see it. [14:03]
thestringpuller yea. but I don't ~look~ at the log 24/7 [14:04]
ascii_butugychag plot block receipt times. [14:04]
ascii_butugychag you're in for a surprise. [14:04]
ascii_butugychag (write it in shiva!) [14:04]
thestringpuller ~_~ [14:04]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag> chances are you simply aren't looking. << grep exists you know. [14:05]
ascii_butugychag or grep, sure [14:05]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag says "LISP is you friend" so I'll give it a try. [14:05]
thestringpuller Reminds me of when gf is like "eat these vegetables they won't kill you" [14:05]
mircea_popescu also, the timing as presented by the node is not terribly reliable. [14:05]
mircea_popescu minutewise it works, but otherwise... meh [14:05]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: sorta why i'd rather plot externally than grep [14:06]
ascii_butugychag the logs suck arse [14:06]
polarbeard ^ [14:06]
ascii_butugychag but thing is, i specifically am interested in what the thing is doing when it is ~unable to produce log~ [14:07]
ascii_butugychag (or do any other useful work) [14:07]
ascii_butugychag incidentally, i found that a blackholed node won't respond to rpc [14:07]
polarbeard you can backport zmq B) [14:07]
thestringpuller oh wait. that has happened to me. [14:07]
ascii_butugychag (it is in the global idiot lock) [14:07]
mircea_popescu polarbeard do you lisp/scheme incidentally ? [14:07]
thestringpuller where node stops responding, last time though it brought the whole machine down tho. [14:07]
polarbeard I used to [14:08]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:09]
thestringpuller !up ascii_butugychag [14:09]
phf can probably add something like lxr, but i need a better idea of how they do c++ parsing/indexing [14:16]
PeterL ascii_butugychag> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395141 << when americans stuff ballot box, they like to set it up as 'dark horse candidate' << I wouldn't call Cruz a dark horse, there are just so many candidates he must have been overlooked, we didn't get bets for huckabee, santorum, fiorina, christie, etc, either [14:17]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 14:12:43; PeterL: looks like there is no bet for cruz to get nomination? [14:17]
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* shinohai actually does: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395272 [14:21]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:03:09; ascii_butugychag: do you have the log scrolling 24/7 ? [14:21]
shinohai !up ascii_butugychag [14:21]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:21]
ascii_butugychag soo i had an idea [14:22]
shinohai >.> [14:22]
ascii_butugychag how to determine, without major surgery, what a wedged node is doing [14:22]
ascii_butugychag https://www.osadl.org/Dumping-gcov-data-at-runtime-simple-ex.online-coverage-analysis.0.html [14:22]
assbot Dumping gcov data at runtime - simple example : OSADL - Open Source Automation Development Lab eG ... ( http://bit.ly/1PUL4jj ) [14:22]
ascii_butugychag this is sorta like what i did with massif [14:23]
ascii_butugychag !s massif [14:23]
assbot 11 results for 'massif' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=massif [14:23]
polarbeard nice [14:23]
ascii_butugychag somebody try this ? [14:23]
ascii_butugychag it needs to be on auto-trigger [14:23]
ascii_butugychag external proggy watches log [14:24]
ascii_butugychag if no block for... 1hr+ ? [14:24]
ascii_butugychag then fire. [14:24]
ascii_butugychag but not until then! [14:24]
ascii_butugychag i strongly suspect that we will uncover a deadlock. [14:25]
polarbeard I'll definitely have to checkout gcov itself first [14:26]
ascii_butugychag polarbeard: comes with gcc [14:26]
ascii_butugychag you already have it. [14:26]
ascii_butugychag !s gcov [14:27]
assbot 23 results for 'gcov' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gcov [14:27]
polarbeard yep, but I didn't know such thing existed [14:27]
polarbeard will play with it, definitively [14:27]
thestringpuller debuggin threads is the most painful thing to debug. [14:28]
jurov lxr may be vtronic *if and when* someone takes my questions serious. so, asking again, what to do with reground or otherwise resubmitted patches? [14:29]
jurov since renaming is out of the question [14:29]
thestringpuller it's like exterminating cockroaches that refuse to die. [14:29]
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ascii_butugychag jurov: append '-old' to the old name ? [14:30]
polarbeard sequence in filename? [14:30]
ascii_butugychag nobody signs the names [14:30]
ascii_butugychag can rename all you like [14:30]
jurov bubutbut mutilation!!!&%#%$ [14:30]
ascii_butugychag gotta rename the sig too [14:30]
ascii_butugychag i was pissed because turdatron did not rename both [14:31]
polarbeard well names are for humans, I think humans is what jurov is concerned with [14:31]
jurov iirc whole lxr thing is for humans [14:31]
polarbeard otherwise just check the sig date using pgp, last patch wins [14:31]
ascii_butugychag jurov: for humans, but the idea here is that it ought to be able to swallow new patches [14:31]
ascii_butugychag without manual curation every time [14:31]
ascii_butugychag and show a coherent tree [14:32]
ascii_butugychag so long as every patch ever submitted can be pressed to, the thing works correctly. [14:32]
polarbeard but actually you need to store all versions in some common place to do further checking, they should come with different filenames... [14:33]
ascii_butugychag and if it can be pressed to, [14:33]
ascii_butugychag it can be viewed as an lxr. [14:33]
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jurov so won't you take exception with branches in lxr named vpatchname_YYYMMMDD or vpatchname_SHA1 ? [14:35]
jurov (latter bring the original idea) [14:35]
jurov *being [14:36]
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mod6 ascii_butugychag: is this kinda what you were asking for yesterday? A vdiff of a pressed original patches (minus PVS fix) + shiva with pressed mod6's integrated patch + malleus regrind + shiva ? [14:37]
ascii_butugychag jurov: the latter is a no-go because sigs ! [14:37]
mod6 http://dpaste.com/04SAJHB.txt [14:37]
ascii_butugychag it fucking breaks v! [14:37]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1VMvF30 ) [14:37]
ascii_butugychag mod6: nope. [14:37]
mod6 please explain again so i can get this completed. [14:37]
ascii_butugychag i wanted a diff of a) the result of applying my original patches b) the result of applying yours [14:38]
ascii_butugychag not the v output [14:38]
ascii_butugychag the tree. [14:38]
ascii_butugychag the two trees, diffed. [14:38]
ascii_butugychag see why ? [14:38]
mod6 scroll to the bottom. [14:38]
mod6 i did vdiff of the pressed out stuff. [14:38]
jurov not really, sigs were supposed to carry SHA1 of the patch they apply to [14:38]
polarbeard jurov: sha would be large and annoying, date +%s would be enough I think [14:38]
ascii_butugychag why is there any difference ? [14:38]
jurov just a cosmetic difference [14:39]
polarbeard and timestamp also keep order [14:39]
ascii_butugychag nono this re: mod6's thing [14:39]
ascii_butugychag jurov: also why do we have sha1 in the mix [14:39]
mod6 <+ascii_butugychag> the two trees, diffed. << i believe this is what I have and what you're looking for, is it not? [14:39]
ascii_butugychag mod6: something is very wrong here [14:40]
mod6 ok, how? [14:40]
ascii_butugychag it is as if the pvs fix is not in one of the trees ? [14:40]
mod6 it ~isn~ [14:40]
mod6 t [14:40]
mod6 its only on the right hand side. [14:40]
ascii_butugychag well then this is not what i asked for [14:40]
mod6 the left hand side is just the ~original~ patches + shiva [14:40]
ascii_butugychag i wanted to see a diff of my tree (pvs, and my pvs fix, and shiva, and the shiva fix) vs yours (where the patches and their bugfixes were agglomerated) [14:41]
jurov sha1 because i wanted to track files by contents and sha1 was at hand [14:41]
ascii_butugychag the trees, as i understand, ought to be ~the same~ after each scenario [14:41]
jurov since name+date was decided, will use that [14:41]
ascii_butugychag jurov: how will you deal with sigs produced after the patch submission date ? [14:42]
ascii_butugychag e.g., mircea_popescu signs my patch, etc [14:42]
ascii_butugychag also all existing vtrons, afaik, match sigs to patches by using the filename. [14:43]
punkman submitting patches with the same name kinda confuses things, maybe we could not do it instead? [14:43]
jurov punkman i said that, there were screams it's not vtronic [14:43]
ascii_butugychag i'm all for not-doing-it [14:43]
polarbeard ascii_butugychag: why can't sigs have the same timestamp? [14:43]
ascii_butugychag polarbeard: because sigs submitted arbitrarily later than the patch !!! [14:44]
polarbeard it's just a version string [14:44]
ascii_butugychag by OTHER PEOPLE [14:44]
ascii_butugychag who are not the patch author [14:44]
polarbeard it happens to be the unix time because is pseudo-universal [14:44]
polarbeard for the rate that patches get built I think it will be fine [14:44]
ascii_butugychag existing pgptrons do not, afaik, allow you to specify a custom timestamp [14:45]
ascii_butugychag and i have no intention of asking people to use a patched pgptron simply so they can use v [14:45]
polarbeard you're talking about the file metadata? [14:45]
phf hehe, poor ascii [14:45]
jurov anyway, matching the signature against all versions of one patch isn't so big thing to swallow [14:46]
polarbeard I mean a timestamp in the filename author_patch_thing_$(date +%s).vpatch [14:46]
ascii_butugychag jurov: sure but now every vtron would need to be rewritten to actually break down filenames [14:47]
ascii_butugychag and existing patches - renamed, etc [14:47]
ascii_butugychag this is nasty [14:47]
ascii_butugychag also using signature timestamps for anything is idiotic [14:47]
ascii_butugychag cardano for instance will NOT have a clock [14:47]
ascii_butugychag and produces CONSTANT timestamp. [14:47]
* adlog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [14:48]
polarbeard still don't see how we can't have author_file_unixtime.vpatch and author_file_unixtime.vpatch.author.sig [14:49]
jurov actually no, people will rename them manually, the curation as you intended all along [14:49]
polarbeard and that would not require renaming past patches actually [14:49]
ascii_butugychag jurov: how about we have the simple and sane solution - a name can be used once. [14:50]
ascii_butugychag submit duplicate ? rejected. [14:50]
ascii_butugychag not duplicate? accepted, without motherfucking mangling [14:50]
ascii_butugychag for all time. [14:50]
jurov i am sooooo in favot of adding another hurdle to turdatron!!! [14:50]
ascii_butugychag this is not a hurdle. [14:50]
ascii_butugychag it is sanity. [14:50]
ascii_butugychag demanding that world move and rearrange itself because somebody wants to reuse a name, is lunacy. [14:51]
ascii_butugychag this also handily LEAVES ALONE all existing vtrons [14:51]
ascii_butugychag does not require 1000 extra lines of regex crapola in any. [14:51]
ascii_butugychag etc [14:51]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:52]
jurov !up ascii_butugychag [14:52]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:52]
ascii_butugychag ~patch submitter~ has the responsibility of coming up with a unique name. [14:52]
ascii_butugychag every. single. time. [14:52]
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polarbeard so no patch replacements? [14:53]
ascii_butugychag no. imho it is the entirely wrong way to go about it. [14:53]
ascii_butugychag mod6, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, et al can produce curated trees simply by signing. [14:54]
ascii_butugychag using renaming for curation is intensely anti-vtronic. [14:54]
jurov i agree, let's have unique names [14:54]
ascii_butugychag finally. [14:54]
polarbeard I completely see unique names are a must, but if you don't replace you'll keep mistakes in the tree? [14:56]
ascii_butugychag the mistakes live forever. [14:56]
ascii_butugychag BUT they are not in the longest chain! [14:56]
ascii_butugychag they get orphaned. [14:56]
ascii_butugychag this is intrinsic to how v works [14:56]
ascii_butugychag and the whole point of it. [14:56]
polarbeard oh, now I see the complete picture [14:56]
ascii_butugychag every patch ever written ~is in the tree~ as it appears to archaeologists [14:56]
ascii_butugychag mod6 doesn't have to host it on his site [14:57]
ascii_butugychag but the global, imaginary tree contains all vpatches ever authored [14:57]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: http://dpaste.com/18AKCK5.txt [14:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kql2lC ) [14:57]
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ascii_butugychag your local one consists of all of the ones you downloaded for which you have the signatures you accept as valid [14:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65929 @ 0.00055938 = 36.8794 BTC [-] {6} [14:58]
ascii_butugychag mod6: ok now ~that's~ it [14:58]
ascii_butugychag neato! [14:58]
ascii_butugychag ty mod6 [14:58]
mod6 ok np [14:58]
ascii_butugychag safe to fire. [14:58]
ascii_butugychag no apparent differences. [14:58]
phf fwiw deleting a patch doesn't "remove it" as such, but ensures that all descendants are unpressable [14:58]
mod6 i guess that makes sense you wanted to see it that way - i thought the first way just because that way there ~is~ a diff to look at. but maybe this is better. [14:59]
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ascii_butugychag phf: not so much unpressable, but that ~you~ lost the ancestors [14:59]
ascii_butugychag mod6: waitasec [14:59]
mod6 sup [14:59]
ascii_butugychag what i am expecting to see in a correct press is for the trees to be IDENTICAL [15:00]
ascii_butugychag your patches ought to add up to same thing as mine did [15:00]
mod6 are they not identical? [15:00]
ascii_butugychag looks like they are [15:01]
ascii_butugychag supposing that your vtron works correctly [15:01]
ascii_butugychag this means that the new patches have the same effect as the old. [15:01]
mod6 well, hopefully my vtron works correctly. [15:01]
* ascii_butugychag is still not sure why it was necessary to discard the history and compress the old patch + its fix into a new one [15:02]
ascii_butugychag but looks like it was done correctly. [15:02]
mod6 i dunno either now, that was a giant pain in the ass. [15:03]
ascii_butugychag i mean hey, it's ~my~ history of bug-crapping that is being whitewashed over, so i shouldn't complain... but still [15:03]
mod6 in other news, ive got a patch for V that's not only the fix for the post-press hash checking, but also for the problem when running the graphing tool with a node that has no decendants. and a couple of small cleanup things. [15:04]
ascii_butugychag neato! [15:04]
mod6 I'll probably just send the patch to the ML to recruit people to help me test over the next two weeks. [15:04]
mod6 (with some instructions etc) [15:04]
PeterL if you have patches a->b->c and you decide to get rid of b, you should end up with a->b->c->(-b), not with a->c' (where c' is reground c without b patch) , do I understand correct? [15:04]
mod6 then if all is good, i'll roll up another publication of the whole thing & call it v99995 [15:05]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: aha, i call this an 'antipatch' [15:05]
ascii_butugychag or antimatter patch [15:05]
PeterL is the antimatter patch the correct way to do it? [15:05]
mod6 ok lunch time! [15:05]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: imho it is. [15:05]
punkman darcs also has "inverse patches" in their "theory" [15:05]
ascii_butugychag and i officially consider regrinds a thing to be avoided if at all physically possible [15:06]
ascii_butugychag they smack of pious fraud, 'this was always perfect, born of the gods' [15:06]
shinohai o/ mod6 didja get some sleep ? [15:06]
PeterL why not just regrind all the patches off the genesis and act like we fixed it in one blow? [15:07]
punkman don't we have to be careful with the antipatches though, so as not to introduce cycles in the graph? [15:07]
ascii_butugychag punkman: if a patch creates a cycle, it is ipso facto invalid. [15:07]
ascii_butugychag (and this oughta be checked for by a vtron) [15:07]
ascii_butugychag and it is trivially possible to unwind to arbitrary point without creating a cycle [15:08]
ascii_butugychag (leave a comment.) [15:08]
PeterL so in my example, if you add a patch d, it could equally be added to (-b) or (c') ? [15:08]
punkman ascii_butugychag: right, I guess good time to remind people [15:08]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: definitely not [15:09]
ascii_butugychag as that would require the hash of (-b) and (c') to be equal [15:09]
PeterL why not? [15:09]
ascii_butugychag which would be a cycle. [15:09]
PeterL wouldn't they be equal? [15:09]
ascii_butugychag draw this on paper. [15:10]
ascii_butugychag no cycles. [15:10]
ascii_butugychag ever. [15:10]
ascii_butugychag this is axiomatic. [15:10]
punkman https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Understanding_Darcs/Patch_theory#Commutation [15:11]
assbot Understanding Darcs/Patch theory - Wikibooks, open books for an open world ... ( http://bit.ly/1UKKpPF ) [15:11]
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ascii_butugychag 'To understand commutation, you should understand why we cannot keep our original patches, but are forced to rely on evil step sisters instead.' << seems like they solved it in the PRECISELY most-anti-vtronic way. [15:12]
ascii_butugychag which is mega-unsurprising [15:12]
ascii_butugychag because they aren't tmsr and do not have our axioms. [15:12]
phf (peace be upon them [15:13]
ascii_butugychag l0l [15:13]
ascii_butugychag http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395502 << mega-recommended to mircea_popescu , great for some indigestion [15:14]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 18:10:43; punkman: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Understanding_Darcs/Patch_theory#Commutation [15:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23450 @ 0.00056299 = 13.2021 BTC [+] {2} [15:17]
punkman ascii_butugychag: this looks useful when regrinding things https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Understanding_Darcs/Patch_theory#The_complex_undo_revisited [15:18]
assbot Understanding Darcs/Patch theory - Wikibooks, open books for an open world ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kqo5u2 ) [15:18]
PeterL ascii_butugychag> as that would require the hash of (-b) and (c') to be equal << is it looking at the hash of the pressed value, which should be the same, or the hash of the patches themselves, which I understand are quite different? [15:19]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [15:22]
PeterL !up ascii_butugychag [15:22]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [15:22]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00056246 = 5.2028 BTC [-] {2} [15:42]
mod6 <+shinohai> o/ mod6 didja get some sleep ? << ah ya. no worries :] [15:48]
jurov http://www.iflscience.com/technology/new-lithium-battery-5-times-better-current-ones lithium superoxide to every pocket! [15:51]
assbot New Lithium Battery Is Five Times Better Than Current Ones | IFLScience ... ( http://bit.ly/1NQp15Z ) [15:51]
shinohai "This also means that Gavins assumptions/estimates regarding the usage for 20 MB blocks unfortunately were very wrong:" https://redd.it/440cq6 [15:52]
assbot Setup and stats of my full node : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1NQp5T4 ) [15:52]
phf so there's two sig's that are not sha512. genesis.vpatch.trinque.sig is sha256 and polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch.polarbeard.sig is sha1 [15:53]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [15:53]
phf perhaps something that v should filter by [15:55]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [15:57]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [15:57]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: here's another look at the difference between both via sha512 hash diff: http://dpaste.com/0SAENPF.txt [15:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NQpLI9 ) [15:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17473 @ 0.00055933 = 9.7732 BTC [-] {2} [16:01]
phf i was trying to see if could look up the corresponding vpatch by decoding the sig's hash, and then assoc into a precomputed map of vpatch hashes. unfortunately openpgp concats the sig header to the payload, so can't precompute :/ [16:02]
jurov phf this was tried several times but since the hash in the signature is done with a date and whatnot, [16:07]
jurov it can't be used to identify signed document [16:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00055933 = 2.545 BTC [-] [16:09]
ascii_butugychag aha this was the first major 'pgp is broken beyond repair' thread, iirc. [16:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22332 @ 0.00055933 = 12.491 BTC [-] [16:21]
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mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [16:28]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [16:28]
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danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395265 << i have it tail -f'ing split on a monitor along with my Eulora explore bot logs, always in my periphery [16:43]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:01:22; ascii_butugychag: does nobody but me actually watch their trb logs ? [16:43]
danielpbarron although honestly the Eulora log is way more interesting [16:43]
thestringpuller as are most RPG logs [16:44]
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mod6 i read trb logs every day. who doesn't? [16:48]
mod6 nearly 5 years now. [16:48]
ascii_butugychag wai wut [16:49]
ascii_butugychag trb is what, 14 mo. old ? [16:49]
mod6 oh thought you meant #b-a [16:49]
mod6 trb logs === mailing list? [16:49]
ascii_butugychag no [16:50]
ascii_butugychag debug.log [16:50]
ascii_butugychag l0l [16:50]
mod6 oooh. hhahah [16:50]
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mod6 duh duh durr durrr durrr durr dur dur [16:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4250 @ 0.00056395 = 2.3968 BTC [+] {2} [16:51]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [16:59]
trinque speaking of which, thanks to the helping hand of the other republic nodes, deedbot.org is a fully synced trb public node [17:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00056396 = 3.3838 BTC [+] [17:03]
mod6 cool! [17:03]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [17:03]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [17:03]
ascii_butugychag congrats trinque ! [17:04]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [17:05]
felipelalli Thank you trinque! [17:05]
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jurov felipelalli: http://bitcoinwot.com/ what does this do? [17:08]
assbot Bitcoin OTC WoT para preguiçosos ... ( http://bit.ly/209J0DH ) [17:09]
jurov (linked from http://deedbot.org/deed-396348-1.txt ... maybe unicode was the problem) [17:09]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/209J3zt ) [17:09]
trinque jurov: nah, deedbot is still jammed until I get trb to send the next bundle [17:10]
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trinque I've got my key imported (via pywallet into wallet.dat) [17:10]
trinque going to poke it more in a bit [17:10]
mod6 kewl. i seem to recall having to do a -rescan afterward but i could be wrong [17:11]
mod6 (after importing privkey) [17:11]
trinque ah k [17:11]
felipelalli jurov, it is the Bitcoin OTC WoT for the lazy [17:16]
felipelalli but it is version zero, only alpha, not so serious yet. [17:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.0005635 = 9.1569 BTC [-] {4} [17:19]
felipelalli trinque, the start of the problem was my expired key, wasn't it? [17:19]
trinque nope, coincidental [17:19]
trinque for some reason my concoction of pybitcointools and btcd stopped making valid transactions [17:20]
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ascii_butugychag felipelalli: java, winblowz ?! [17:21]
ascii_butugychag when do we get 'reactor controlz for the lazy' [17:21]
* shinohai saw that .jar file, clicked off. [17:22]
jurov felipelalli: i can see, but...user that doesn't know how to make a signature or talk to gribble don't have anything to do in otc [17:22]
felipelalli ascii_butugychag, unfortunately yes. [17:22]
ascii_butugychag felipelalli: you say this as if you had no choice ? [17:23]
felipelalli jurov, I understand. But it is being very useful so far in Brazilian community. Actually the app can sign messages (not verify it yet) [17:23]
jurov what doies "very useful" mean? [17:24]
danielpbarron let me see if i can make one of those funny metaphores out of this: "that's like a cock that can get you pregnant, but you can't have sex with it" [17:25]
felipelalli lol, I knew that you guys would say that. [17:25]
PeterL Do they not have real computers in Brazil? [17:26]
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BingoBoingo when do we get 'reactor controlz for the lazy' << In Japan. Turns out Fukushima was running off of one of those dollar store Sharp organizers. [17:27]
felipelalli jurov, they are learning the importance of the thing, at least, I hope. They are learning the importance to make solid contracts and verify the people reputation. [17:27]
ascii_butugychag solid, verified, in java on winblowz aha. [17:27]
ascii_butugychag l0l. [17:27]
ascii_butugychag cattle have a place. [17:28]
ascii_butugychag men have a place. [17:28]
felipelalli ascii_butugychag, yes. my first idea was make this 100% web, but the IRC let me crazy. So I had just two dawns to implement it, I choose the cheapest for my good will and the win version is because they demanded it [17:28]
ascii_butugychag cow-man chimera - is grotesque. [17:28]
felipelalli ascii_butugychag, I didn't ask you to use it, didn't I? [17:28]
felipelalli *did I? [17:28]
danielpbarron why not just have an html form with no illusions of crypto; would be infinitely more useful for your purposes [17:29]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: What you should do for great lolz is depreciate the windows version. [17:29]
ascii_butugychag no. but i was curious what felipelalli was thinking when he produced this. [17:29]
BingoBoingo Get them hooked, pull the rug out from under them, see which ones swim. [17:29]
felipelalli lol [17:29]
BingoBoingo cow-man chimera - is grotesque. << to be fair this is kinda what bitcoin-otc has become already... [17:30]
phf today lazy, tomorrow dead. poor technology choices kill. this message was brought to you by the tmsr agitprop dpt [17:30]
BingoBoingo !b 1 [17:30]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2A5YQBM.txt ) [17:30]
felipelalli I am writing an article about the importance of the Bitcoin OTC WoT. This image is part of it: http://i.imgur.com/tHVbbva.png [17:31]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1nNO3xY ) [17:31]
felipelalli do you guys recommend me some material to read before publish it? [17:31]
danielpbarron these very logs [17:31]
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danielpbarron or are you going to spend another 6 months not reading it? [17:32]
felipelalli danielpbarron, it is already for sure. [17:32]
felipelalli danielpbarron, plus some trilema posts [17:32]
thestringpuller "[We should see Bitcoin classic use ramp up] after binaries are released. Most people don't want to compile". << These people really shouldn't be involved in Bitcoin. Like going to war without learning to clean gun. [17:33]
danielpbarron ok and why are your brazillian friends any different? [17:33]
felipelalli danielpbarron, they are lazy? [17:33]
danielpbarron why are you friends with the lazy? [17:33]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: I suggest two more pictures: result of abandoning windows https://i.imgur.com/d1EbJSa.jpg and end game of using windows https://sli.mg/a/pssVpQ [17:34]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/209L7r5 ) [17:34]
assbot Eats to much ... ( http://bit.ly/209L7r9 ) [17:34]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [17:34]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [17:34]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [17:34]
felipelalli BingoBoingo, I don't use Windows. [17:35]
felipelalli the exe I generated with a tool inside a VM [17:35]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: SUre, but your people do. Those pictures help make the case for the lazy. [17:35]
felipelalli danielpbarron, good question. Because if I don't, I feel too lonely? :D [17:35]
felipelalli ahahhaaha [17:35]
danielpbarron so be lonely [17:35]
BingoBoingo related danielpbarron If you want to keep triggering fatties on twitter you gotta study and learn to deliver the lines yourself. [17:36]
felipelalli ahhaha BingoBoingo so true. [17:36]
danielpbarron and since when do you need to pretend to sign contracts with someone to get along with them? [17:36]
felipelalli danielpbarron, because I am nerd? [17:37]
danielpbarron BingoBoingo, that thread man.. 40k impressions and like.. that one reply. A whole sea of watchers, the highest level of involvement they can handle is "liking" something [17:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8422 @ 0.00056532 = 4.7611 BTC [+] {2} [17:37]
danielpbarron and since when is 'nerd' a compliment? that's related to the fatty thing [17:39]
BingoBoingo danielpbarron: Still, you gotta learn the slurs and work on a more natural delivery I recommend just sticking reading the text posts here https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/ [17:39]
assbot If you can't beetus, join us! - Now with 50% more ramen! ... ( http://bit.ly/209LqlF ) [17:39]
danielpbarron you should be ashamed to be a nerd [17:39]
thestringpuller danielpbarron: you a twitter celebrity now? [17:39]
danielpbarron hardly [17:39]
felipelalli danielpbarron, I am. [17:39]
danielpbarron ok then, cast off those nerd phreinds, spend more time in here [17:39]
felipelalli and I am ashamed to trying to help the lazy people! But it is being fun. [17:39]
felipelalli at least. [17:39]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: Find news in Brazil and please to qntra it up. [17:40]
danielpbarron thestringpuller, i got into it with a fairly popular girly about "nice guys" and sexual dominance or something; turns out i think we were agreeing with eachother without realizing it [17:40]
felipelalli BingoBoingo, say about the Brazilian Bitcoin market is a good thing? For example? [17:40]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: Maybe work up to that. Maybe start by chronicling socialist evils perpetuated by your government [17:41]
felipelalli BingoBoingo, good idea. [17:41]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00056693 = 2.4378 BTC [+] [17:41]
felipelalli I am going to my swimming lesson now. Thanks for the obvious comments that I was expecting. I tried to hide from you, but you got me! outch! [17:42]
ben_vulpes poor trinque [17:43]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: Anyways it's a better use of time doing things that can't be done on windows and making your friends want to leave the windows favella than just doing everything for them. [17:43]
ben_vulpes he probably destroyed what's left of the trinquetop in rage [17:44]
trinque eh I knew that ball of duct tape and twine wasn't going to last [17:44]
BingoBoingo Of all the #b-a projects, deedbot's probably up there for frustration induced [17:44]
ben_vulpes > mikebook [17:45]
trinque and now... there's shiva ! [17:45]
ben_vulpes hey you're patching an eatrawtx into shiva then? [17:45]
felipelalli BingoBoingo, not all of them are my "friends". Actually I want to identify the bad actors in the community. I could implement an automatic -1 from me for who install the exe version!! lol [17:45]
felipelalli thank you!! see you. [17:45]
trinque ben_vulpes: new deedbot code's all CL; would be nice and tidy to be crapping sexp commands into shiva from it [17:46]
ben_vulpes eval-over-socket [17:46]
ascii_butugychag shiva most desperately needs session persistence [17:47]
BingoBoingo http://www.askamanager.org/2015/09/i-was-fired-after-a-stranger-sent-photos-of-my-private-text-messages-to-my-employer.html [17:47]
ascii_butugychag that is, currently, a shiva runtime is destroyed on hangup [17:47]
assbot I was fired after a stranger sent photos of my private text messages to my employer — Ask a Manager ... ( http://bit.ly/1nNPSLr ) [17:47]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell funkenstein_ yo are you going to submit that privkey import backport to the ml? [17:47]
gribble The operation succeeded. [17:47]
trinque ben_vulpes: first I'm getting deed txns going by using the trb wallet; I don't want to have to wait for an implementation of eatrawtx to resume deeds [17:47]
ascii_butugychag it does ~not~ need persistent sessions for ~any~ rpc-style usage scenario, note [17:49]
phf if i have a gpgme key instance, is there some way to patch its trust level? [17:49]
ascii_butugychag i am merely stating this for the benefit of noobz [17:49]
ben_vulpes ascii_butugychag: aha [17:49]
ben_vulpes 'stateless protocol' [17:49]
phf doesn't need persistent for slime type use either. can just connect and mainloop, so the state will be around for duration of session? [17:50]
ascii_butugychag nope, it does [17:50]
ascii_butugychag right now if you try to use slime-like item with shiva, [17:50]
ascii_butugychag you end up with ONE repl at a time [17:50]
phf oh it locks.. [17:50]
ascii_butugychag aha [17:50]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [17:50]
ascii_butugychag well it doesn't lock, but it gives you one lisp world per telnet connection [17:50]
ascii_butugychag which dies when the latter dies. [17:50]
ascii_butugychag and the only thing the worlds share is their trb image [17:50]
ascii_butugychag which - when we actually get shiva hooks that ~modify~ as well as read - does have a global lock [17:51]
ascii_butugychag so right now a shiva session is really a very 'obese' rpc call [17:51]
ascii_butugychag spins up a whole lisp universe for just a command or two [17:52]
danielpbarron speaking of obese, from BingoBoingo's linked article >> But for what it's worth, you yourself aren't coming out smelling like a rose here -- and not because of your actions in this story, but because of your commentary on it: You have a pretty gross attitude toward overweight people. << haha found the fatty! (TM) [17:52]
ascii_butugychag however, persisting shiva isn't a trivial thing [17:52]
ascii_butugychag because it needs to disconnect & reconnect i/o terms [17:52]
ascii_butugychag and this will require modifications of tinyscheme proper [17:52]
BingoBoingo danielpbarron: See, you're learning [17:52]
ascii_butugychag (which is why i didn't do it) [17:52]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: re: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000198.html << what needs to happen for this not need to be handled with radiation suit? [17:55]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: for starters, to find all of the 10,001 buffer overflows in tinyscheme and fix [17:57]
ascii_butugychag but even then, a debugger that listens on tcp is a dangerous thing to have around [17:57]
ascii_butugychag esp. once it is actually a debugger and not simply a lame proof of concept as now [17:58]
thestringpuller aha. so pretty much ~only~ for labratory use as stated. [17:58]
BingoBoingo To be fair, it may not need whole radiation suit, a glove box may be fine. [17:58]
ascii_butugychag i don't think i will ~ever~ recommend tinyscheme on a box which carries live-fire coin. [17:59]
ascii_butugychag we will write our own scheme. [17:59]
ascii_butugychag with no motherfucking 'idiomatic c'/ [17:59]
ascii_butugychag . [17:59]
thestringpuller cowboy coding and debugging on production is for the truly brave. [17:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00056222 = 5.2286 BTC [-] {3} [18:00]
* phf likes how tinyscheme doesn't check arity [18:02]
phf in other news takes 13.78 seconds to match all patches to all sigs with elimination on my laptop [18:03]
ascii_butugychag phf: O(N^2) [18:04]
ascii_butugychag gonna only get worse. [18:04]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [18:05]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [18:05]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [18:05]
ascii_butugychag phf: it is very minimal; no free lunch [18:08]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21756 @ 0.00055922 = 12.1664 BTC [-] {3} [18:31]
deedbot- [Qntra] Ebay Has No Plans To Stop Being A Vector For Malware Propagation - http://qntra.net/2016/02/ebay-has-no-plans-to-stop-being-a-vector-for-malware-propagation/ [18:33]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [18:35]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [18:36]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [18:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13929 @ 0.00056777 = 7.9085 BTC [+] {3} [18:45]
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mircea_popescu so i've just been shopping in the tiniest shop i have ever seen. [19:03]
deedbot- [Qntra] Alan Reiner Quits Armory as Multi-Year Commercialization Effort Fails - http://qntra.net/2016/02/alan-reiner-quits-armory-as-multi-year-commercialization-effort-fails/ [19:03]
BingoBoingo ^ A lol [19:04]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: What sort of wears were in the tiny shop? [19:04]
mircea_popescu it's inconceivable without seeing it. like 20 sq feet affair that was maybe five foot tall, you had to go in two fucking steps. and then the actual shop, down a steep flight of stairs, another 30 sqft or so i guess. [19:04]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo best slutwear thing in buenos aires, by a large margin. [19:04]
BingoBoingo Aha [19:04]
mircea_popescu i bought things so small you could carry them inside your nostril. [19:05]
BingoBoingo Tis the natural order of things [19:05]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395329 << this is an impossible question to answer tho. what do you mean "what to do" [19:06]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:28:22; jurov: lxr may be vtronic *if and when* someone takes my questions serious. so, asking again, what to do with reground or otherwise resubmitted patches? [19:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00056555 = 7.8329 BTC [-] {3} [19:09]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395341 << no. pgp date is meaningless. [19:11]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:30:57; polarbeard: otherwise just check the sig date using pgp, last patch wins [19:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00056485 = 11.9748 BTC [-] [19:14]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395399 << ofcoursetheydo [19:14]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:44:29; ascii_butugychag: existing pgptrons do not, afaik, allow you to specify a custom timestamp [19:14]
thestringpuller slutware that's a good phrase [19:17]
danielpbarron lemme guess, change system time? [19:17]
trinque mod6: I did a rescan but don't see my key as part of the default "account". I'll fiddle with the wallet.dat a bit more, then take a look at backporting that importprivkey [19:17]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395415 << cue very angry alf "it rejected my thing!111" [19:17]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:49:33; ascii_butugychag: submit duplicate ? rejected. [19:17]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron quite. [19:17]
mod6 trinque: hmm. yah, i had to like use that tool, do a rescan and a restart, and then it was in there. but yea, that back port, if sane, would be best. [19:18]
trinque mod6: the tool you used was pywallet ? [19:19]
mod6 sounds like it. [19:19]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395421 <<< from now you will be known as hashislav because stanislav was taken long ago [19:19]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:50:30; ascii_butugychag: demanding that world move and rearrange itself because somebody wants to reuse a name, is lunacy. [19:19]
* assbot gives voice to punkman [19:19]
punkman archive.is is returning a loading gif here, anyone else? [19:20]
BingoBoingo punkman: Yeah [19:20]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395431 << i dunno that i renamed anything when signing it. i thought thatg's how we do it, i take the original v.pl and turn it into v.pl.me.sig [19:20]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:53:44; ascii_butugychag: using renaming for curation is intensely anti-vtronic. [19:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.0005626 = 7.2575 BTC [-] {2} [19:21]
mod6 yah, that's how my sigs look for v.pl: v.pl.mod6.sig [19:21]
mircea_popescu http://dpaste.com/3VTH8EN << confirmed this is what i get from archive.is [19:22]
assbot dpaste: 3VTH8EN ... ( http://bit.ly/1X48dQ7 ) [19:22]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395437 << so if i make a script to fuck whores and i call it fuckwhores.pl and then it's mistaken and abandoned now i'm stuck using sexingsluts.pl instead and if that also gets burned i'll end up doing intromissiveman1pulationofwillingwenches.pl ? [19:26]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:55:51; ascii_butugychag: they get orphaned. [19:26]
punkman no [19:27]
mircea_popescu well i can't reuse a name can i. [19:27]
punkman yeah but these are patches not scripts [19:27]
mircea_popescu same difference. [19:27]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu punkman: This is what archive.is tends to do when it's overloaded. [19:27]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395440 << how about the logical thing, unique names PER TREE. [19:29]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:56:08; polarbeard: oh, now I see the complete picture [19:29]
mircea_popescu i can make as many fuckwhores.vpatch as i want, but only one can end up in any given tree. [19:29]
danielpbarron BingoBoingo, it's been 'overloaded' all day it seems [19:30]
punkman blog's still there http://blog.archive.is/ [19:30]
assbot Archive.is blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1nO3vKp ) [19:30]
BingoBoingo danielpbarron: And Qntra/trilema have been down for a week plus at a time when overloaded. [19:31]
mircea_popescu "Also, I heard that people are more willing to help animals than other people. Thus the donations to a pet rescue fund can be seen as the upper estimate of how donation to the webpage capture project would perform." [19:31]
mircea_popescu ahaha [19:31]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395474 << in your case you should end up with a->c'. if there's a much longer chain then the -b method makes more sense. [19:33]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 18:04:14; PeterL: if you have patches a->b->c and you decide to get rid of b, you should end up with a->b->c->(-b), not with a->c' (where c' is reground c without b patch) , do I understand correct? [19:33]
mircea_popescu it's really up to the maintainers. [19:33]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395482 << no, antipatches are to be avoided if at all possible. [19:34]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 18:05:25; ascii_butugychag: and i officially consider regrinds a thing to be avoided if at all physically possible [19:34]
mircea_popescu the WRITER does the work, always. not the reader. [19:34]
mircea_popescu you don't like doing the work, don't fucking write. [19:34]
mircea_popescu too many people writing code as it is. [19:34]
mircea_popescu must be discouraged as much as possible. [19:34]
mod6 put this in the cryptonomicon ^ [19:34]
mircea_popescu srsly. [19:35]
mircea_popescu "oh boo hoo, i am too important and gmaxwell to fucking fix things, here's my useless code that everyone's going to be stuck with forever" [19:35]
mircea_popescu "go die in a tyre fire" [19:35]
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mircea_popescu !up topynate [19:36]
* assbot gives voice to topynate [19:36]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395483 << no dude, it's just "i have enough respect for the reader to not go A^HB^HA^HB^HC [19:36]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 18:05:59; ascii_butugychag: they smack of pious fraud, 'this was always perfect, born of the gods' [19:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10226 @ 0.00055881 = 5.7144 BTC [-] {2} [19:37]
punkman regrind also creates work for readers [19:37]
mircea_popescu explain ? [19:38]
topynate hello all. thanks mircea_popescu [19:38]
mircea_popescu regrind, to be perfectly clear, is the act of making a tree out of patches instead of keeping them linear. this is a known efficiency-of-search trope, and i shouldn't have to explain how distributing the patches out saves work when i'm pressing 3 years later and want to read the whole string of patches from genesis. [19:39]
mircea_popescu topynate hey there. who're you again ? [19:39]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395522 << polarbeard seriously fix your pgp! [19:40]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 18:52:30; phf: so there's two sig's that are not sha512. genesis.vpatch.trinque.sig is sha256 and polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch.polarbeard.sig is sha1 [19:40]
topynate i wrote that bit on the block size at https://topynate.wordpress.com/2016/01/26/note-on-the-block-size-limit/ that you called "not terrible". i'm a math-literate developer. [19:40]
assbot Note on the block size limit | Particulars ... ( http://bit.ly/1RTYex2 ) [19:40]
thestringpuller regrind is alt-version of patch, why can't it be applied linearly? (or at least force such a workflow) [19:41]
topynate !register 112F353F5A3EEEBE3B0E824A36F13568F209C5B0 [19:41]
assbot Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 112F353F5A3EEEBE3B0E824A36F13568F209C5B0. This may take a few moments. [19:41]
assbot Key F209C5B0 / "Nathan Daniel Cook " successfully imported. [19:41]
assbot Registration successful. [19:41]
punkman reading A->B->B(fixed) or A->B->B(regrind) is still 3 patches each [19:41]
thestringpuller ^ [19:41]
mircea_popescu oh right! [19:42]
mircea_popescu punkman the first is a->b' [19:42]
mircea_popescu !rate topynate 1 Not terrible [19:42]
assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/813ea42d8e6d9d8a [19:42]
mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.topynate.1:011db29b9a8be532616ecfe1051d2b2dd5705a4e5b071812518538ee7b5d7f30 [19:42]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for topynate with note: Not terrible [19:42]
mircea_popescu f [19:43]
mircea_popescu topynate now let's thrash this out. can you define "quota" ? [19:43]
punkman also could be valuable to see how B started out and then fixed, without having to diff the various versions of B patch [19:44]
mircea_popescu punkman why without ? [19:44]
mircea_popescu you want archeology, dig by all means. [19:44]
mircea_popescu besides, the same selective memory thing that was deliberately put into deedbot works here as well. some dead chains will be forgotten before others. [19:44]
topynate a binding limit on how much of something is made [19:45]
mircea_popescu understand that immutable systems are VERY dangerous in principle. your world is mutable. [19:45]
mircea_popescu topynate does it matter if its conventional or real ? [19:45]
mircea_popescu is h a quota ? [19:45]
topynate sorry, what's h? [19:46]
mircea_popescu planck's constant. [19:46]
topynate ah. no, i don't think you can stretch it that far. that would be like saying the total quantity of oil in the ground was a quota on oil production. [19:47]
mircea_popescu but it does meet your definition. "a binding limit on how much of something is made". it is binding, it is a limit, and it is on how much ofsomething can be made. [19:47]
mircea_popescu it's not a matter of stretching anything. [19:47]
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mircea_popescu did you mean to say "a conventional limit" ? [19:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00055747 = 1.5609 BTC [-] {2} [19:48]
topynate yes. so long as it's a convention with teeth. e.g. opec's oil production quota used to be a real quota because enforcible, now it isn't [19:50]
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mircea_popescu in this sense the argument can be brought that while the early block limit as implemented by miners (using 60% of the 1mb blocks) WAS a quota, the actual 1mb block size is not a quota at all, [19:51]
mircea_popescu but simply its own kind of universal constant. [19:51]
mircea_popescu what say you to that ? [19:51]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395578 << hey, he lives in a country where the poor buy tvs instead of fridges. what choice does he have, to move to wash dc ? [19:53]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:22:52; ascii_butugychag: felipelalli: you say this as if you had no choice ? [19:53]
topynate that would be remarkable; i can see the 1mb size being such a strong convention that no-one would have any expectation of successfully altering it, but unsure how it could have a universal nature like that of h [19:54]
mircea_popescu topynate well, consider that we can alter the value of h by altering the units of measurement. suppose all alteration of the 1mb block limit reduces to similarly a mere change in the units of measurement. [19:55]
mircea_popescu that'd be ONE way it could have such universal nature. [19:55]
mircea_popescu moreover, whether it does or might isn't the point. the point is, can you prove it doesn't have such nature ? because unless you can, speaking of it as a quota is iffy. [19:55]
topynate if it really is a universal constant, then there are a lot of wasted words on the block size limit, including my own - anyone trying to abrogate it will just fall flat on his face [19:58]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395581 <<< ahahaha ok, i laughed out loud. [19:58]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:24:49; danielpbarron: let me see if i can make one of those funny metaphores out of this: "that's like a cock that can get you pregnant, but you can't have sex with it" [19:58]
mircea_popescu topynate quite. consider, just for the sake of conversation, the situation of a child who rfound his father's musket. [19:58]
mircea_popescu now this child sees an apple in the tree, shoots at it and hits. [19:58]
mircea_popescu he then thinks to himself : "i could shoot as high or as low as i want, and the bullet wouldstill hit the apple, because i'm that special, and because that's what man made muskets for and how bullets work etc". [19:59]
mircea_popescu this IS of course true, provided the child manages to alter the powder charge too, so the bullet's speed and its angle are always in the right ratio. [19:59]
mircea_popescu we so far fired a single bullet out of a gun we don't even know who the fuck made. seems a lot of unwarranted cockyness all around for this little knowledge. [19:59]
mircea_popescu you know ? [19:59]
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topynate nice koan. so istm your point is that the effort on fiddling with the parameters would be better spent on understanding why it works in the first place? [20:01]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [20:01]
mircea_popescu yes. [20:01]
mircea_popescu similarly to how my argument is that rather than "improving" bitcoin, that time'd be better spent fixing the codebase as it is. [20:01]
mircea_popescu an argument persuasive enough that the whole foundation and the most serene republic is hard at work doing just that. [20:02]
mircea_popescu which brings us to what this is all about. [20:02]
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topynate ok - what's it about? [20:05]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.topynate.1:226e5cfbd7f23a264f5b52ba305a97966ac4dfa28041b36feaf8944e880f301a [20:05]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for topynate with note: I showed him the log, and marvel of marvels, he joined! [20:06]
mircea_popescu no i mean, #bitcoin-assets etc. trying to understand how it works, fixing the code etc. [20:06]
topynate ah, i see. the project in toto [20:06]
* assbot removes voice from topynate [20:07]
mircea_popescu right. [20:07]
thestringpuller topynate: you can self voice now [20:07]
mircea_popescu you can voice yourself, send assbot !up in a pm [20:07]
mircea_popescu and for the record, the name for the opposite attitude used here is "power ranger". because totally. [20:08]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395111 << heh. i thought this commrade mighta been trinque's but it's not quite synced as far as he claims his btcd replacement for deedbot- is. [20:09]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 13:20:51; asciilifeform: 5x19x141x248.static-customer.iz.ertelecom.ru << in mircea_popescu's trb fleet ? [20:09]
mircea_popescu nope not mine. [20:09]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395112 << tevye was about the same. also yesterday. [20:09]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 13:29:59; asciilifeform: in other news, zoolag was blackholed for a record-breaking 8 hours. [20:09]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: soon my ip will be coming from 'russian federation' neh ;) [20:10]
danielpbarron !rated PeterL [20:10]
assbot You rated user PeterL on 14-Oct-2014, with a rating of -2, and supplied these additional notes: He made fetchbot, the bot that can't stay up.. [20:10]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.unrate.PeterL:f467e2281c524f35e0a463a15b4378ac0cb531bfb107a7ecd58d5a5a0dd3d753 [20:10]
assbot Successfully unrated PeterL [20:10]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395247 << i've had to restart as well every 2-5 days in the last 3 weeks. same 'network' issues causing lag of 10-100 blocks. fixed instantly by restart, new peer discovery. [20:12]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 16:52:32; ascii_butugychag: restart - always cures [20:12]
mircea_popescu odd. [20:12]
pete_dushenski i'm not sure that it is for a public node. [20:13]
* assbot gives voice to topynate [20:13]
pete_dushenski for a '-connect' private node ? probably, but every single '-addnode' public node, save asciilifeform's majick baltic node, seems to variously lag before restarting, at least as far as i can follow from bitnodes.io [20:14]
pete_dushenski which i follow quite a bit ! [20:14]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395265 << yes. but maybe it's a n00bish fascination thing i have. [20:15]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:01:22; ascii_butugychag: does nobody but me actually watch their trb logs ? [20:15]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395266 << ~0.5x time is 'connecting' and 'disconnecting'. seems inefficient, but maybe that's the price of a distributed network ? [20:16]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 17:01:32; ascii_butugychag: these things spend a good chunk of their time not node-in !1111 [20:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.00056796 = 1.1359 BTC [+] {2} [20:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.0005679 = 2.5556 BTC [-] [20:17]
danielpbarron !rated cazalla [20:17]
assbot You rated user cazalla on 18-Aug-2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: Dedicated reporter.. [20:17]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.cazalla.2:4faa087a63fca71433abc1847b38cbecbecb4a5e54b6c5580459bc5699d9e437 [20:17]
assbot Successfully updated the rating for cazalla from 3 to 2 with note: friend of the Republic, former qntra guy [20:17]
pete_dushenski the alternative (atm) is a ~fixed~ set of peers determined at random on start-up, as seen in 'multibit', which i can tell you from first hand experience this week has not been broadcasting select transactions from select keys. at all. and this is in no way fixable. [20:17]
pete_dushenski so if it sounds shitty to have a node blackholed, imagine having a ~privkey~ blackholed. [20:18]
pete_dushenski even after reviewing 'multibit' error logs, it was in no way clear to me how or why this should even be possible. [20:18]
pete_dushenski but that's what you get for sucking mike hearn's dong and expecting a cream soda to come gushing out. [20:19]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395591 << can be hawt. http://costumefail.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/cow-costume-mug-shot-201x300.jpg [20:20]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:27:37; ascii_butugychag: cow-man chimera - is grotesque. [20:20]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIeb8q ) [20:20]
pete_dushenski so an idiot is me and i feel sorry for anyone who tries to do bitcoin casually because there's no goddam way. [20:20]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395603 << that;'s actually pretty good. [20:21]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:30:30; felipelalli: I am writing an article about the importance of the Bitcoin OTC WoT. This image is part of it: http://i.imgur.com/tHVbbva.png [20:21]
pete_dushenski bitcoin's too complicated, too barbed, too thorny, too messy, and too time-consuming for sortakindausers. this is obviously an asset in a great many ways, but it can still be frustrating for persistent folks. not that this is news to everyone beating prb into trb.... [20:21]
pete_dushenski /rant [20:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7284 @ 0.00056849 = 4.1409 BTC [+] {3} [20:24]
danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.fghj.2:59c19cc150c5e92a3011a3467c72ce48fc26901b8c18fc63405b5624e380c612 [20:24]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for fghj with note: very useful Eulora noob [20:24]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski well... being worked on [20:24]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395641 << isn't this how intergender discussion usually goes ? [20:25]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:40:10; danielpbarron: thestringpuller, i got into it with a fairly popular girly about "nice guys" and sexual dominance or something; turns out i think we were agreeing with eachother without realizing it [20:25]
phf mircea_popescu: osmething like this http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation [20:26]
assbot asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation ... ( http://bit.ly/1P7F2Zl ) [20:26]
mircea_popescu hm ? [20:26]
phf signers for the whole press, vs. signers for individual vpatches [20:26]
mircea_popescu wait what! you can't sign a whole press [20:27]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395651 < wow. i never had a problem with it. [20:27]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:44:23; BingoBoingo: Of all the #b-a projects, deedbot's probably up there for frustration induced [20:27]
mircea_popescu well... for a while i kept sending it nonraw dpastes, but hey. [20:27]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I mean for the operators [20:28]
phf the set of people necessary to produce current set? or i possibly misunderstood the thread [20:28]
phf *current press [20:28]
mircea_popescu oh oh sorry. i get now what you're saying. lessee [20:28]
mircea_popescu phf well it's ok-ish in the sense that i have all the data to try and do the work by my own eyes. [20:29]
phf and what's the work? [20:29]
mircea_popescu but how i'd expect this to look is C (asciilifeform mircea_popescu mod6 trinque) D (asciilifeform), (mod6) [20:29]
mircea_popescu meaning that all those contributed and the press depends on either a set made out of alf or a set made out of mod6 [20:30]
mircea_popescu phf and i don't need to see anything re genesis etc. just about the final destination. [20:30]
mircea_popescu am i being comprehensible ? [20:31]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395662 << not even sure this is a bad thing [20:32]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:46:53; ascii_butugychag: that is, currently, a shiva runtime is destroyed on hangup [20:32]
mircea_popescu oh nm i see downstream in teh logs. [20:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00056983 = 1.8804 BTC [+] [20:33]
phf mircea_popescu: i'm not groking but i realized that i need to take a break and eat instead of derping on a computer any longer, so i'll get back to you on that one [20:34]
shinohai !s http://www.dailydot.com/politics/dogecoin-moolah-alex-green-ryan-kennedy-rape-accusation/ [20:36]
assbot Ryan Kennedy, founder of Dogecoin exchange Moolah, charged with raping 5 women ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIgEzX ) [20:36]
assbot 0 results for 'http://www.dailydot.com/politics/dogecoin-moolah-alex-green-ryan-kennedy-rape-accusation/' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailydot.com%2Fpolitics%2Fdogecoin-moolah-alex-green-ryan-kennedy-rape-accusation%2F [20:36]
pete_dushenski "Blockstream, a tech startup that employs several core developers of the bitcoin protocol, has raised $55 million in venture capital to develop its sidechain technology and expand its global operations." [...] "Horizons Ventures, AXA Strategic Ventures and Digital Garage led the Series A funding round, which brings the startup's total venture funding to $76 million to date." << all this paper (and cardamon smell) and [20:37]
pete_dushenski y still can't buy 10% of asciilifeform's time nor 10% of mod6's. fancy that :) [20:37]
mircea_popescu funny, i was just referencing RealTime Worlds the other day. [20:38]
mircea_popescu but in related news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/ffa48701b8274b68a5796c7492caacdb/tumblr_nusj401fVn1us4cv1o1_1280.jpg [20:38]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIheO9 ) [20:39]
pete_dushenski too bald. [20:39]
* AaronvanW has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [20:41]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [20:44]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 368.1, vol: 7073.89874393 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 368.791, vol: 10000.78401 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 368.17, vol: 13120.38289945 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 374.99, vol: 0.96760754 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 376.2954, vol: 27684.61060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 368.14, vol: 218.32829837 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 373.01025, vol: 180.08829077 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [20:44]
BingoBoingo ;;more [20:44]
gribble 372.142877543 [20:44]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all --currency rmb [20:44]
gribble BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2474.01, vol: 27717.21530000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2474.01 [20:44]
pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395520 << priceless. [20:45]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 18:51:25; shinohai: "This also means that Gavins assumptions/estimates regarding the usage for 20 MB blocks unfortunately were very wrong:" https://redd.it/440cq6 [20:45]
pete_dushenski also a year and a half late, but what can you expect. [20:46]
* assbot gives voice to guruvan [20:54]
* Carli- has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [20:59]
ben_vulpes ( unrelated to anything: https://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/IRS-Statement-on-Experiencing-Systems-Outage ) [20:59]
assbot IRS Statement on Experiencing Systems Outage ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIkjxv ) [20:59]
ben_vulpes pinging BingoBoingo [21:00]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski and missing the "as mp said back in january 2015" bit, of course. [21:01]
ben_vulpes of particularly amusing note is that their payment-accepting system is broken. [21:01]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Have fun with it. [21:01]
guruvan "Twenty megabytes downloaded plus twenty megabytes uploaded every ten minutes is about 170 gigabytes bandwidth usage per month " << gavin doesn't want well connected nodes I see [21:02]
mod6 ermahgerd, gotta go blow some snow again. [21:03]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: that's probably still another 1.5 years off. you're usually 3 years ahead of the curve, neh ? [21:05]
mircea_popescu geg [21:05]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395693 << the way i expect this to work at least for a while will be shiva-p which will be a pretty limited thing and shiva-l which'll be an actual debugger and all that. [21:08]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 20:57:51; thestringpuller: aha. so pretty much ~only~ for labratory use as stated. [21:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.0005679 = 2.4988 BTC [-] {2} [21:09]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395703 << even so 14 s seems excessive. [21:10]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 21:04:13; ascii_butugychag: phf: O(N^2) [21:10]
BingoBoingo Case Study: Watch a shitgnome in the wild paper over its enshittening https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4420gt/the_end_of_the_road_for_armory/czmu3k5 [21:11]
assbot shrinknut comments on The End of the Road for Armory ... ( http://bit.ly/1SImqkS ) [21:11]
pete_dushenski "but you could turn that off" << mega-lel [21:12]
mircea_popescu "I could probably write a book about the depth and complexity of events of the past year, the lessons I've learned and the personalities I've dealth with. However, at this point it's all history, and I've always been more interested in planning the future than dwelling too much on the past." << no, he couldn';t write a book. not anymore than boshiman could build a city on all the land he walks. moreover, orc imagines h [21:12]
mircea_popescu istory is a byword for dead and buried, which ties into why he will never be able to write a book. [21:12]
mircea_popescu or make anything worth the mention whatsoever. [21:12]
mircea_popescu neeeext [21:12]
mircea_popescu http://cow-and-mare.tumblr.com/post/137545470620/xuisse-this-please-i-should-probably-go-into << alan reiner, yuumi chan, whatevs. [21:13]
assbot xuisse: [21:13]
pete_dushenski "Along the way, we accumulated a mess of legal and corporate complexity that has made it difficult to do anything constructive with Armory's intellectual property." <--> "You think you want to take dollar investment, you think you want to make a non-Bitcoin company ? Think again. Think long, think hard, and start with this : what makes you think a fiat company is even possible anymore ?" [21:15]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Derps derping their way out is bullish for a 2013 replay. All we need now is RealSolid returning with yet another altcoin scam. [21:18]
mircea_popescu well i hear mit is hiring, so... [21:18]
BingoBoingo In related news https://assets.rbl.ms/174164/980x.jpg [21:21]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIoUzM ) [21:21]
mircea_popescu ahahaha [21:22]
BingoBoingo It's that herding instinct [21:24]
pete_dushenski speaking of animal behaviour, www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html [21:24]
pete_dushenski eh http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html [21:24]
assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIpGg5 ) [21:24]
pete_dushenski "Many of the locksmith lead gens are run by Israelis, and Avi learned their modus operandi by working for them. When he landed at La Guardia Airport in 2008, he wanted to work with computers, the field he had trained for in Israel. But it was the height of the recession, and he did not have many options." [21:25]
pete_dushenski "Mr. Alverado said those fake buildings were necessary because getting to the first page in Google results now took ingenuity and cunning. “You have no idea,” he said, sounding a little weary when asked about competition. Israelis were his toughest rivals, he said, and they had instilled a kind of awe in him. “I can tell you point-blank, they are freaking smart,” he said. “I really admire them.”" [21:26]
pete_dushenski this is what happens when adlais without homes and consumers without wots meet in america. [21:28]
pete_dushenski off to pickup new specs. if i'm not back this evening, i'll be around under 'pete_d_out' over the coming days. cheers! [21:29]
* pete_dushenski has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [21:30]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [21:37]
gribble Current Blocks: 396574 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 577 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 5 hours, 21 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [21:37]
BingoBoingo ;;nethash [21:37]
gribble 1055842789.25 [21:37]
* felipelalli (~felipelal@unaffiliated/felipelalli) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:37]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [21:38]
felipelalli http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395886 << thank you mircea_popescu - the article I am writing starts with a quote made by your PR translated to Portuguese: "Se você não tem uma conta WoT você não faz parte do ecossistema Bitcoin. Esse é o critério, não importa o que você possa achar. É onde todos olham, não importa o que alguma rede social tem dito pra você. Se você não está no WoT você não está no [21:40]
felipelalli Bitcoin." [21:40]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 23:21:09; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395603 << that;'s actually pretty good. [21:40]
mircea_popescu o hey, check it out, i can read that. [21:40]
felipelalli danielpbarron, BingoBoingo etc. you guys convinced me to remove the win32shit stuff. I'll remove all files, actually. [21:40]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: I mean you can leave source for the old win32 stuff so the lazy but desperate can still try building it. Think of it like putting the icecream shop at the mall on the top floor so fat people gotta choose icecream or using stairs. [21:43]
felipelalli BingoBoingo, ahahh yes. But there is no special code to WIN32 actually in Java. The "exe" was just a wrapper. But if the guy can't execute a jar in Windows he just won't be able to use WoT anyway. [21:44]
felipelalli I'll put a link to source code and in Github I'll put the jar in "releases" section. I think it is better in this way at least while the app isn't so mature yet. [21:46]
BingoBoingo felipelalli: Maybe change the license on the software to: "You do not have license to use this code unless you translate the Java Bytecode to Fortran 95" [21:47]
felipelalli ahaahhh lol [21:47]
mircea_popescu felipelalli the reason you're getting so much grief is that it's not clear how your premises work. i mean i get it, you want to help people, and teach them about otc and so on. this is one thing. but i mean what did you do, i don't follow, reimplement gpg as a java thing ? [21:50]
mircea_popescu but in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/8ef2f0ce131bb0bde4bc4efdbfc8e247/tumblr_nw2l90w5Du1uu92gho1_1280.jpg [21:51]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIvdDx ) [21:51]
felipelalli mircea_popescu, thank you mircea to understand my motivation. Yes, I tried to help. The "magic" to make the thing easy was to derivate a bitcoin keypair from the username+password using scrypt. I understand this can be unsafe if the user uses a bad password, but like you said, it is just to let the lazy people to taste the power of wot. [21:54]
BingoBoingo https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaTlIAzW4AA4BLZ.jpg [21:54]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiJAtD ) [21:54]
mircea_popescu oh like that thing online what was it called [21:55]
mircea_popescu brainwallet or something [21:55]
asciilifeform drainwallet [21:55]
asciilifeform (rm) (r) [21:55]
felipelalli brainwallet uses sha256, it is a disaster [21:55]
asciilifeform 'ye heard it here phurst' [21:55]
mircea_popescu but basically the same thing except as a java ? [21:56]
felipelalli but yes, it's not the safest thing anyway! [21:56]
felipelalli mircea_popescu, in java and it uses scrypt. [21:56]
asciilifeform 'same meal but merely eaten once before' [21:56]
felipelalli BingoBoingo, see now: http://bitcoinwot.com/ ahah [21:57]
assbot Bitcoin OTC WoT para preguiçosos ... ( http://bit.ly/209J0DH ) [21:57]
mircea_popescu aha. [21:57]
BingoBoingo Just enough rope for a person to shoot themself in the foot when they get surprised that rope does that [21:57]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395914 << this is an ok (if wasteful of cycles) thing if using shiva only as rpc, but precludes writing any serious functionality in it [21:57]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 23:32:07; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395662 << not even sure this is a bad thing [21:57]
mircea_popescu and in "views from the dirigible" news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/cb1e90b06df5ded1f71394833fb37595/tumblr_mvm35nynvq1s62w2ao1_1280.jpg [21:57]
assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIw3Qz ) [21:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah eventyally got to the rest of the log. [21:57]
* Carli- (~Carli-@garza.riseup.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [21:58]
BingoBoingo !up Carli- [21:58]
* assbot gives voice to Carli- [21:58]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395923 << pete_dushenski would vomit out his guts if he knew what buys 90% of my time [21:58]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 23:36:26; pete_dushenski: y still can't buy 10% of asciilifeform's time nor 10% of mod6's. fancy that :) [21:58]
guruvan BingoBoingo: RTFM ;) [21:59]
BingoBoingo guruvan: rope the fugly meerkat? [22:00]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1395947 << ideally just by varying init.scm [22:00]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 00:08:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395693 << the way i expect this to work at least for a while will be shiva-p which will be a pretty limited thing and shiva-l which'll be an actual debugger and all that. [22:00]
guruvan BingoBoingo: "friendly" [22:01]
* linton_s_dawson has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) [22:02]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1395952 << i for one never understood the point of 'armory' to begin with [22:02]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 00:11:10; BingoBoingo: Case Study: Watch a shitgnome in the wild paper over its enshittening https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4420gt/the_end_of_the_road_for_armory/czmu3k5 [22:02]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1395969 << see also the fake 'uber' cabs, and similar [22:05]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 00:24:17; pete_dushenski: eh http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/31/business/fake-online-locksmiths-may-be-out-to-pick-your-pocket-too.html [22:05]
Carli- asciilifeform: Armory has "offline" wallets that you can spend from. How do you do that with bitcoin-qt? [22:05]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: The point of Armory was making people with too much RAM and CPU for their own good feel speshul [22:06]
asciilifeform Carli-: spend?! [22:07]
BingoBoingo Or at least that was the point when it loaded the whole blockchain in RAM [22:07]
asciilifeform Carli-: i also don't much care what the best stove for burning pieces of my sofa to heat my house would be, either [22:07]
BingoBoingo Because at one point loading the whole blockchain into RAM was an idea that didn't give most people pause. [22:07]
Carli- asciilifeform: With Armory, your private keys never touch an onine computer. Also has "Deterministic" wallets. [22:08]
asciilifeform !gettrust Carli- [22:09]
assbot Carli- is not registered in WoT. [22:09]
Carli- asciilifeform: And you can run Multiple wallets at the same time. Is there a way to do that with bitcoin-qt? I am trying to figure that out [22:09]
asciilifeform Carli-: afaik nobody here uses 'bitcoin-qt' [22:10]
asciilifeform for anything. [22:10]
Carli- asciilifeform: which wallet do you use? or are there any other wallets, that can do: Deterministic, Offline transactions, Multiple Wallets ? [22:12]
shinohai I said this today in pm with mod6: 17:37 shinohai Please no moar qt [22:12]
guruvan electrum - but to operate properly, you'd run your own server & node Carli- [22:12]
asciilifeform Carli-: therealbitcoin.org [22:12]
guruvan asciilifeform: you have HD in trb? [22:13]
asciilifeform what's hd [22:13]
Carli- HD means Deterministic. [22:13]
guruvan deterministic key derivations [22:13]
asciilifeform why the FUCK would i [22:13]
asciilifeform srsly why do folks insist on tard crypto. [22:13]
BingoBoingo !b 4 [22:14]
assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1SCBZNH.txt ) [22:14]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1395950 << recall, it calls out to gpg on shell !1111 [22:15]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 00:09:57; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-02-2016#1395703 << even so 14 s seems excessive. [22:15]
Carli- asciilifeform: so you can back up your wallet to a piece of paper once, only 18 words long is the "seed" [22:16]
asciilifeform Carli-: do you understand what this means mathematically ? [22:16]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [22:17]
Carli- asciilifeform: i think it is something like this, not sure: SHA256(Seed + 1), Sha256 (seed +2) etc... [22:17]
adlai this is the whole point of bip32 - backups which only need to be stolen once [22:17]
asciilifeform ^ [22:18]
adlai Carli-: lol, you should probably read the bip if you're that excited about it [22:18]
Carli- asciilifeform: is there something wrong with BIP32? [22:18]
adlai Carli-: specifically: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0032.mediawiki#private-parent-key--private-child-key [22:18]
asciilifeform adlai has it. [22:18]
assbot bips/bip-0032.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1SIzK8W ) [22:18]
adlai there are some use cases for it, sure. but there's a reason that they weren't automatically merged in despite being invented by the same people [22:19]
asciilifeform the other thing is that quite possibly i can derive f(n + 1) from f(n) [22:19]
* adlai is not mathemagician enough to know how, but the construction is ~supposed~ to prevent this [22:20]
Carli- asciilifeform: yes, i think one of the problems: if someone has 2 of your Private keys AND your Master Public Key, they can find ALL of your private keys. IIRC [22:20]
adlai Carli-: s/2/1/ [22:20]
Carli- are there any other problems with bip 32? [22:21]
phf i thought gpgme spawns a child process and keeps it around. still pushing all that data around is expensive.. [22:21]
asciilifeform 'this pistol fires the bullet backwards into my face. are there any ~other~ problems with it?' [22:21]
Carli- hahaha [22:21]
asciilifeform phf: i don't recall anybody using gpgme here [22:21]
adlai Carli-: primarily you should understand that the main goals of bitcoin development (in this channel, at least) are to minimize the amount of moving parts [22:22]
phf quoted 14s is from my graph thing, and im using gpgme [22:22]
Carli- asciilifeform: well, the point is to keep your private keys on a Air-gapped computer offline forever [22:22]
Carli- (point of Armory) [22:22]
adlai this is an operational concern. the bitcoin node software doesn't even need to know what a private key is! [22:22]
asciilifeform Carli-: it is possible to do with without weakening the crypto. [22:23]
asciilifeform *to do this [22:23]
adlai Carli-: note that http://therealbitcoin.org has no wallet. [22:23]
assbot ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiNFOB ) [22:23]
asciilifeform adlai: this is not true [22:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5943 @ 0.00056983 = 3.3865 BTC [+] [22:23]
asciilifeform adlai: the original wallet code is entirely in there [22:23]
asciilifeform and i am on record as insisting on this. [22:23]
* adlai stands corrected. [22:23]
asciilifeform because it is a motherfucking REFERENCE implementation [22:23]
asciilifeform which must at all times remain capable of bootstrapping bitcoin on alpha centauri, if necessary. [22:24]
Carli- asciilifeform: How do you do Deterministic or Offline Wallets, without weakening the crypto? [22:24]
asciilifeform Carli-: 'deterministic' wallet is braindamaged [22:24]
asciilifeform what part of 'i can quite possibly derive your key' is difficult to understand. [22:24]
adlai asciilifeform: would it still be correct to say that there is no intent that people use trb as a wallet? or at least, use the same trb as a network node and a wallet node? [22:24]
asciilifeform adlai: you can use it as a jackhammer if you wish [22:24]
asciilifeform and i've certainly generated and transmitted tx using it [22:25]
asciilifeform as i think most people here have. [22:25]
asciilifeform fact is, there ~is~ no non-braindamaged 'wallet', aside from what each of us has quietly hacked together. [22:25]
trinque I am as we speak making deedbot use it exactly as such [22:26]
Carli- asciilifeform: isn't "deterministic" kind of similar to what OTR, or Axolotl does? [22:26]
Carli- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl_(protocol) [22:26]
assbot Axolotl (protocol) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiNZNb ) [22:26]
adlai Carli-: again, the point here is to simplify bitcoin to the minimal required functionality. feature creep, even if they're useful features, is to be avoided. [22:26]
trinque lest I shorten my days on earth trying fixing abominations like pybitcointools or btcd [22:27]
asciilifeform Carli-: the state-of-the-art among thinking folk is that pre-generated tx are stored on paper and fed into a hot node when necessary [22:27]
asciilifeform afaik. [22:27]
asciilifeform nobody has seriously improved on this barbarism, at least publicly. [22:27]
* adlai would be reminded of travelers' checks, if he were old enough to have ever seen one [22:28]
* assbot removes voice from Carli- [22:28]
adlai !up Carli- [22:28]
* assbot gives voice to Carli- [22:28]
adlai Carli-: out of curiosity, how did you find this place? people usually have some inkling of its philosophy when they wander in... [22:29]
Carli- asciilifeform: cool, is there a guide that you recommend to do " pre-generated tx" ? [22:29]
adlai and why is your hostmask 'garza' [22:29]
Carli- i saw a blog that linked to this channel, adlai [22:29]
adlai and it didn't scream "these people hate javascrypto" at you? [22:30]
* trixisowned (~trixis@2601:280:4102:c7de:b560:a9d5:adeb:f299) has joined #bitcoin-assets [22:32]
Carli- adlai: i was just responding to his post about Armory here, plus i am interested in "offline" transacations, and Multiple Wallets Simultaneously. [22:32]
mod6 asciilifeform: any objections to me replacing those vpatches on the mirror now, or should I wait for you to give them a try first? [22:33]
adlai Carli-: well, you can keep your wallet(s) on an offline computer, and only send the addresses around on the internet - using any program. [22:33]
trinque mod6: I just built 99996 plus funkenstein's importprivkey patch btw, bout to give it a go [22:33]
mod6 nice trinque, gl. [22:34]
adlai Carli-: fyi http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [22:34]
assbot first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o ) [22:34]
Carli- adlai: How do you make a transaction while keeping the wallet offline? [22:34]
* twixisowned has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) [22:34]
adlai Carli-: you build the tx on the online node, transfer it across the airgap, sign on offline wallet, transfer back. [22:35]
Carli- adlai: is there a guide, that you recommend for that? [22:36]
adlai Carli-: not really, i don't think this is the same kind of procedure as googling three-ingredient brownies [22:38]
Carli- lol [22:39]
BingoBoingo A sad story https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/836619 [22:42]
assbot Dating dreams dashed | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiQKy0 ) [22:42]
asciilifeform mod6: post'em [22:43]
phf where does wallet put its transactions? mempool? [22:43]
shinohai can confirm mod6 's patches work well [22:45]
mircea_popescu yes [22:45]
mod6 yah, shinohai tested these for me today. seemed to work for him. [22:45]
mod6 asciilifeform: ok cool thx. [22:45]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396026 << this is nonsensical on its face. [22:46]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 01:05:15; Carli-: asciilifeform: Armory has "offline" wallets that you can spend from. How do you do that with bitcoin-qt? [22:46]
mircea_popescu what distinction do you do there ? so you sign the txn on one system, and dump it as a rawtx on another. this is a big deal somehow ? [22:47]
mod6 i'll also update the graph while im at it. [22:47]
mircea_popescu simple "offline" qt : have two talk to each other, inspect the interface, extract tx, dump it to printer. [22:47]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396032 << define "touch". [22:48]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 01:07:57; Carli-: asciilifeform: With Armory, your private keys never touch an onine computer. Also has "Deterministic" wallets. [22:48]
Carli- mircea_popescu: Is there a guide on how to do it in bitcoin-qt? here is more info on how Armory works: https://bitcoinarmory.com/cold-storage/ [22:49]
assbot Cold Storage - Armory Bitcoin Wallet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiREe5 ) [22:49]
mircea_popescu "Cold storage was innovated by the Armory Bitcoin wallet. Armory provide a first-of-its-kind interface for easily managing offline wallets for true cold storage. " [22:50]
mircea_popescu mmmkay it lost me. [22:51]
mircea_popescu got anything else ? [22:51]
* adlai is still curious about the 'garza' hostmask [22:51]
phf lurk 6 months, build trb, replace RelayMessage in http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/wallet.cpp#0645 with your own thing that serializes CTransaction to file, come back if that doesn't quite work [22:51]
assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/wallet.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiRVh3 ) [22:51]
BingoBoingo Armory's biggest selling point was a "badass" name it could use to hook n00bz. [22:51]
Carli- mircea_popescu: iirc, the only thing that "touches"-- you can burn a CD/USB (qrcode?) of the transaction from the offline wallet. Also, it lets u run Multiple Wallets at the same time-- is there a way to do this in bitcoin-qt? [22:52]
BingoBoingo Carli-: pipe? [22:53]
mircea_popescu yes, i described it above. [22:53]
Carli- here is a screenshot of multiple wallets running: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Armory_Bitcoin_Client.png [22:55]
assbot File:Armory Bitcoin Client.png - Wikimedia Commons ... ( http://bit.ly/1PiSgjT ) [22:55]
Carli- BingoBoingo: what do you mean "pipe"? [22:55]
BingoBoingo Carli-: Like | [22:55]
BingoBoingo In a useful OS you can | things all over the place [22:56]
adlai Carli-: have you ever heard of "feature creep"? being able to specify a feature, which is related to an existing program, doesn't mean the same program should include that feature [22:56]
Carli- BingoBoingo: yes, but you want minimal contact for the airgapped machine. so some people recommend burning CD's [22:56]
BingoBoingo Carli-: You can | to CD [22:57]
BingoBoingo Or | to thermal receipt printer [22:57]
BingoBoingo ANd | to qrcode generator [22:57]
Carli- adlai: yes, i know feature creep [22:58]
BingoBoingo And the best part is | works very well offline [22:58]
* assbot removes voice from Carli- [22:59]
phf "the later models were suposed to have been designed by other screamers" [23:01]
mircea_popescu by now the gap is so large people can't even grasp it. [23:02]
mod6 ok mirror is updated. i've pulled, pressed, compiled and am now running with all the latest. [23:03]
mircea_popescu cool! [23:03]
mod6 gl, let me know if anyone hits any snags. [23:03]
mod6 the graph has been updated as well. [23:07]
mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-02-2016#1396112 << for the record, the concept of "wallet" is pure nonsense. [23:07]
assbot Logged on 04-02-2016 01:32:11; Carli-: adlai: i was just responding to his post about Armory here, plus i am interested in "offline" transacations, and Multiple Wallets Simultaneously. [23:07]
mircea_popescu maybe not as self-combustingly insane as the Bitcoin notion of "accounts" , but still. [23:08]
mircea_popescu lmao people are dating on the basis of hating fat people ? [23:10]
BingoBoingo Apparently [23:10]
BingoBoingo When divorce comes it makes allotting fault easier. "Relationship was built on lies, why else would she get fat after declaring her hate for it" [23:11]
* HostFat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:12]
* p15 (~p15@15.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:28]
* assbot gives voice to TomServo [23:30]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski I'm glad this one closed. Now that he's back he's on pace to hit 80 points. 30 games left, got three points in his first one back. https://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/ [23:34]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:34]
assbot BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 4 days 2 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1VKaf7t ) [23:34]
TomServo ahoy b-asseteers [23:39]
TomServo I've finally got a node past the wedge, and there was much rejoicing [23:39]
BingoBoingo Cool TomServo congrats [23:40]
shinohai gg TomServo [23:41]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski for the lulz https://bitbet.us/bet/1198/connor-mcdavid-will-live-up-to-the-hype/#c5609 [23:43]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:43]
assbot BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 4 days 2 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QdP60r ) [23:43]
TomServo re: the conversation of logging earlier, I tend to launch bitcoind within a tmux session and have seen errors dumped to console after a hang/crash [23:45]
TomServo if these are also dumped to debug.log, I'm a dope and missed them [23:45]
TomServo but i'm probably just relaying the blatently obvious [23:45]
shinohai tmux is my friend for keeping it stable in stuck blocks [23:47]
Category: Logs
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