Forum logs for 01 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
ben_vulpes i've been trying to read the tinyscheme sources [00:05]
ben_vulpes did not know that tear ducts could weep blood [00:05]
phf ben_vulpes: ideally you'd want to read this first [00:11]
assbot Lisp in Small Pieces: Christian Queinnec, Kathleen Callaway: 9780521545662: Books ... ( ) [00:11]
phf or rather instead :D [00:15]
ben_vulpes hm [00:15]
ben_vulpes one of the things that remains a mystery to me is the recompilation facilities supporting slime et al [00:16]
ben_vulpes although that's probably more accurately strictly a SBCL thing. [00:16]
ben_vulpes a hundred and eleven fucking dollars!? [00:17]
ben_vulpes seventy six eighty on MOTHERFUCKING KINDLE?! [00:17]
ben_vulpes I WILL NOTE [00:17]
ben_vulpes NOT [00:17]
phf :D [00:17]
mircea_popescu awww, but all this technology was here to make books cheap and accessible! [00:18]
BingoBoingo Hey, Amazon will buy your copy for a $25 gift card though! [00:18]
mircea_popescu what, you thought they're only selling at 0.95 for a few years until barnes and noble goes under ? [00:18]
ben_vulpes the notion that there is any price for bits not agreed upon by a bid by people who want the bits and an opening of the floodgates by those who have them at an accepable rate is utter horseshit. [00:19]
mircea_popescu the notion of some retard somewhere paying a hundred he actually worked for so as to receive a pdf still makes me chuckle. [00:19]
mircea_popescu next whores'll be paying to get ramed. [00:19]
ben_vulpes those curly horns don't look too fun, but whaddoiknow [00:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75800 @ 0.00056672 = 42.9574 BTC [+] [00:20]
phf of course per ascii's oft repeated point there's a russian translation, on github, [00:22]
assbot ilammy/lisp - TeX - GitHub ... ( ) [00:22]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: know anything about deleuze and guatarri in the context of intertextuality? [00:24]
ben_vulpes guattari* [00:24]
mircea_popescu ... [00:24]
copypaste i have a kindle, but never use the store feature. [00:24]
ben_vulpes that'd be a no then? [00:24]
mircea_popescu that'd be a wtf is wrong with you. [00:25]
copypaste also, i liked your attempt at the merchant rewrite mircea_popescu :) [00:25]
mircea_popescu lol k [00:25]
BingoBoingo If you need to invoke intertextuality for any reason, your problem is likely wrong. [00:25]
mircea_popescu i also know something about finkielkraut and that other fuckwit in the context of amorous disorder. [00:26]
ben_vulpes i don't know anything about the topic! [00:26]
mircea_popescu ask better questions. [00:26]
BingoBoingo Maybe people can actually use it in french, but in the English language if you invoke it, there is a near certainty you and your problem are wrong. [00:26]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109479 @ 0.00056618 = 61.9848 BTC [-] {5} [00:27]
B0g4r7_ bad_duck BananaLotus ben_vulpes BigBitz BingoBoingo bounce [00:28]
mircea_popescu you read it, incidentally, ben_vulpes ? [00:28]
ben_vulpes what 'it' [00:28]
mircea_popescu ;;google le Nouveau desordre amoureux [00:29]
gribble Le Nouveau Désordre amoureux — Wikipédia: ; PhilO - Pascal Bruckner - Le nouveau désordre amoureux (16 juin ...: ; «Tout le monde couchait avec tout le monde» - L'Express: [00:29]
phf Foucault! [00:30]
ben_vulpes i did debord a while ago [00:30]
ben_vulpes but no, i am a classically poorly-read american. [00:31]
ben_vulpes still working through scip, and even that's deficit spending. [00:31]
phf i spent some time playing a lot of kriegspiel with a friend of mine [00:34]
deedbot- [Qntra] Bitcoin Foundation Address Recap: Next Release Imminent, Shiva Introduced - [00:35]
phf ben_vulpes: [00:36]
assbot Kriegspiel -- About: Overview ... ( ) [00:37]
ben_vulpes nifty, BingoBoingo [00:38]
BingoBoingo ty ben_vulpes [00:38]
ben_vulpes perhaps reference Bitcoin implementation instead of daemon, as daemon refers to how a process gets handled by whatever nix is handling procs locally [00:38]
ben_vulpes i will continue to drive for "reference implementation" over "real bitcoin" or such grandiosities [00:39]
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mircea_popescu anyway, to summarize a century or two of purely french wankery for the benefit of the youthful lisper : what the publish&perish industry did in english on the basis of the bastardized electronic typewriter known as excel is not NEW in any sense, but merely a reimplementation of a traditional french passtime, originally played on more primitive instruments. [00:41]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Until it's BitcoinOS it's a daemon. It's important to refer to it as a number of descriptive things for legacy www reasons. [00:41]
mircea_popescu deleuze is exactly a worthless word pusher, trying to do "the x of y" like any silicon valley wanna-be. his "x of the y" is a silly "no identity exists save as a piling-on of differences" [00:42]
mircea_popescu but basically, and transparently, the driving force behind him, and the whole rest, is "what could we further say". [00:42]
BingoBoingo Oh, so basically a different Derrida wank [00:42]
ben_vulpes i'm always interested in finding the root nodes the 'further say'ers metastasized from [00:43]
mircea_popescu have we said that the icecream is square ? o ? how about the square is icecream ? that too? hmm... "icecream square is that" no ? [00:43]
mircea_popescu HA! IDEA! | [00:43]
mircea_popescu but these are treacherous waters and really not advisable for the innocent. [00:43]
mircea_popescu especially seeing how there's exactly no benefit to be had. [00:44]
phf point illustrated by brion gysin [00:44]
assbot Brion Gysin - I Am [1960] - YouTube ... ( ) [00:44]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Husserl is something of a root node, you can get to him through kant->Fichte->Hegel->Marx [00:44]
mircea_popescu oh, and your mentioning kant reminds me : the whole "time is imposed by the observer" nonsense, also. [00:45]
BingoBoingo Distinct problem though is lots of oversized patches in this V graph [00:45]
mircea_popescu al these khagne idjits'd have benefitted immensely from a modest physical education. [00:45]
BingoBoingo Well, what other conclusion is a bored German to come to? [00:45]
BingoBoingo He came from Prussia, not a Germany with clocks at the time [00:46]
mircea_popescu not that time's a prime order concept, but that it's both sad and unbecoming to field the matter with antiquated flintlocks left from 1700. [00:46]
mircea_popescu there's a lot more intelligent things to say about time, and certainly better doubts to present than "oh it's secreted by observation". especially in the fucking 60s. [00:46]
BingoBoingo It's a problem of making V patches too big, turds find a way [00:46]
BingoBoingo Or drugs [00:50]
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pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: heh. i was actually taking a look at that trilema earlier today. if gabrielradio wants to lay the foundation, i'd be happy to build the house. [01:20]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell gabrielradio cheers! [01:20]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:20]
assbot Inca o pozitie sexuala on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [01:20]
pete_dushenski <-- not a terrible read on how 'normies' reconcile --> [01:22]
assbot If having more no longer satisfies us, perhaps we’ve reached ‘peak stuff’ | Will Hutton | Opinion | The Guardian ... ( ) [01:22]
assbot Logged on 28-01-2016 13:21:58; mircea_popescu: it's a combination of multisecular trends. one is a hate of plastics, that has been brewing for at least five decades. the other is a hate of self, that;s been brewing since ww2, and that expresses itself variously, but for instance in current "carbon"-ecology. [01:22]
pete_dushenski in summa : "we should be less individualistic and more like the cattle we properly are. let's stop pretending to be something we're not" [01:25]
pete_dushenski which isn't half-bad advice [01:26]
pete_dushenski now, to digest 1k lines... [01:26]
pete_dushenski << /me starting to appreciate v-power ! (and no, not the shell gasoline) [01:40]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 19:22:50; phf: oh, if you remove joe from wot, v finds an alternative path [01:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139050 @ 0.00056188 = 78.1294 BTC [-] {2} [01:46]
BingoBoingo Both 25 [01:53]
assbot ... ( ) [01:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77086 @ 0.0005599 = 43.1605 BTC [-] {2} [01:54]
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pete_dushenski << in related nyooz, 'lisa' is 13yo. no pic but guessing she's not a beached whale, or else no one would've believed her for even a minute. [01:57]
assbot Teenage girl admits making up migrant rape claim that outraged Germany | World news | The Guardian ... ( ) [01:57]
mircea_popescu so are we going to believe the admission of the girl that admits she lied ? [01:58]
mircea_popescu or are we going to think she was true the first time and is lying now ? [01:58]
pete_dushenski yea, maybe she has allahusnackbarstockholm syndrome [01:58]
mircea_popescu well moreover, a lot of people would a whole lot rather believe it never happened. so... [01:59]
pete_dushenski i'd leave a comment bringing this very point up but... the guardian has disabled all comments. [02:00]
pete_dushenski too uncomfortabru [02:00]
BingoBoingo "But when she was questioned by trained specialists three days later “she immediately admitted that the story of the rape was not true”, said the spokesman for the state prosecutor, Martin Steltner. " [02:05]
BingoBoingo "TRAINED SPECIALISTS" [02:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77881 @ 0.00056162 = 43.7395 BTC [+] {2} [02:07]
asciilifeform ok where do i start... [02:09]
BingoBoingo Prolly by making a pot of coffee before you settle down. [02:09]
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asciilifeform << dafuq [02:10]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 20:22:51; mod6: [02:10]
asciilifeform IT BUILDS FINE HERE [02:10]
asciilifeform and runs, correctly [02:10]
asciilifeform ver string - sets, ver num - likewise. [02:10]
asciilifeform << this looks like mod6 kept left-over crud from old linker run and it choked on it [02:11]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 20:22:51; mod6: [02:11]
asciilifeform always make -f makefile.unix clean [02:12]
asciilifeform << i will move to the bottom of the sea, email will not begin to work again [02:13]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 21:48:22; mircea_popescu: hey alf, how about you move out of the us ? hm ? HM ? [02:13]
asciilifeform <<< aaaaand this is where we learn that NOBODY READS THE MOTHERFUCKING LOGZ [02:14]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 21:56:45; ben_vulpes: anyways, mod6 you gotta upgrade to press *all* reachable leaves. that's the problem i'm running into with asciilifeform's recent shiva rebake [02:14]
asciilifeform >>>>>> <<<<<<< [02:14]
assbot Logged on 29-01-2016 15:38:47; ascii_butugychag: i suppose this is when i restate my rage at the idiocy of gnudiff [02:14]
asciilifeform ^^^^^ mandatory thread ^^^^^ [02:14]
asciilifeform tinyscheme genesis is NOT PART OF TRB !!1111111111111 [02:14]
asciilifeform was never meant to be ! [02:15]
asciilifeform stop trying to press it! [02:15]
asciilifeform it was the only way i could think of to nail down the lineage from virginal tinyscheme to shiva !1 [02:15]
asciilifeform gnudiff is RETARDED and doesn't let you rename files! [02:15]
asciilifeform except by IDIOTICALLY minusing the whole shebang and plussing it back in under new name [02:16]
asciilifeform fuckwads [02:16]
asciilifeform who thought this was acceptable [02:16]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> IT BUILDS FINE HERE << huh, maybe i didn't clean?? i'll try again. [02:16]
asciilifeform mod6: from your log, seems like it [02:16]
mod6 thanks for taking a look at that. did you see my replacement patch then? [02:17]
asciilifeform << i looked in the prb crud when we had this thread, found no such thing, recall [02:17]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 22:16:46; mircea_popescu: i originally thought so but research in here shows that no, it's never checked. [02:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12968 @ 0.00055763 = 7.2313 BTC [-] {2} [02:18]
asciilifeform mod6: did that one work ? [02:18]
mod6 mine? should have. is basically the same as yours just instead with 'extern int VERSION;' [02:18]
mod6 gotta get it to link correctly tho. [02:19]
asciilifeform did you make it directly from my 2 patches (old + new) ? [02:19]
BingoBoingo << People kept confusing low/high-s malleabillity with the DER encoding business [02:19]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 05:16:50; asciilifeform: << i looked in the prb crud when we had this thread, found no such thing, recall [02:19]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: aha [02:19]
BingoBoingo For MONTHS [02:19]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: this kind of confusion can only come from not actually reading the src [02:19]
asciilifeform nothing quite compares to the magical power of actually reading things... [02:19]
asciilifeform << wai-wut?!1 wtf [02:20]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 22:33:31; mircea_popescu: anyone thinking diapers are cheap is not-poor in the us [02:20]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> did you make it directly from my 2 patches (old + new) ? << no didn't even try that yet. just went straight into integration of both into one. kinda got side tracked with the SoBA and then watched some xfiles. heheh. [02:20]
asciilifeform what else is secretly not-cheap, officially, that i had nfi about? ? toiler paper? [02:20]
* BingoBoingo prolly going to pick up dead tree SICP in the next month or so [02:20]
asciilifeform mod6: if it was not made from my patches directly, it is possible that you have a mistake. [02:20]
pete_dushenski myea, i don't think we go through $1/day of diapers [02:20]
pete_dushenski maybe $2. tops. [02:21]
mod6 yeah, i dunno, i got the same problem again just now. [02:21]
asciilifeform << see plox [02:21]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 22:38:37; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you confirm that tinyscheme_genesis_fixed.vpatch does *not* depend on shiva parts one and two? [02:21]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 05:13:31; asciilifeform: ^^^^^ mandatory thread ^^^^^ [02:21]
mod6 even after a clean. [02:21]
asciilifeform mod6: try and actually make it from ~my~ patches. [02:21]
mod6 yah, will try here now. [02:22]
asciilifeform you quite likely have a mistake in there. [02:22]
asciilifeform << again, phf also plz see mandatory thread. [02:22]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 22:44:06; phf: so i dropped patches from "[BTC-dev] Tinyscheme Genesis, Cleanup, and Fixes, CORRECTED; -and- Shiva Pedigree Bridge." but i'm still missing something so they are just hanging there separately, [02:22]
asciilifeform << that one, interestingly, WORKS [02:23]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 22:48:49; mircea_popescu: i guess i fucked it up when putting it on trilema ? asciilifeform ^ mind saying what the above link does ? [02:23]
asciilifeform ('chromium') [02:23]
ben_vulpes yes yes, gnudiff is retarded [02:24]
asciilifeform << you know, could always ask me, and get the l3333337 w4r3z [02:25]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 03:15:55; ben_vulpes: a hundred and eleven fucking dollars!? [02:25]
ben_vulpes ask me how many fuxx i give when trying to wire patches [02:25]
asciilifeform don't trade with the enemy, just say no to paying for bits. [02:25]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: joy of deficit spending here is that i complain about price of bits and find they're free. [02:25]
ben_vulpes share a ware? [02:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63950 @ 0.00055752 = 35.6534 BTC [-] {2} [02:26]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: seeing it yet ? [02:27]
ben_vulpes dcc scares me [02:28]
asciilifeform then where do you want it [02:28]
ben_vulpes a gpggram would be lovely, or a .tgz i can scrape down from your server [02:28]
asciilifeform too big [02:28]
* ben_vulpes snaps a laptop [02:28]
ben_vulpes thank you for pointing out the inadequacy of everything. [02:29]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: do please to dcc again [02:30]
asciilifeform l0l it was 15 years since i last did this [02:31]
ben_vulpes motherfucker. [02:31]
ben_vulpes perhaps only ten for me. [02:31]
ben_vulpes eh maybe thirtee. [02:31]
asciilifeform no go ? [02:31]
ben_vulpes i don't think erc actually worx. [02:31]
mod6 asciilifeform: yeah, i dunno what i screwed up with that integration patch of mine, but yeah, your vpatch fix pressed and compiled fine. [02:32]
asciilifeform anyway ben_vulpes and everybody else can have 133333337 w4r3z when they can come up with a place for it to go. [02:32]
asciilifeform mod6: cool [02:32]
mod6 thanks! [02:32]
asciilifeform toldya it wurx [02:32]
mod6 my apologies [02:33]
asciilifeform np [02:33]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: how big *is* it? [02:33]
asciilifeform ~40M [02:33]
asciilifeform mod6: you will notice that it works on shiva branch also. [02:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35907 @ 0.00056188 = 20.1754 BTC [+] {2} [02:34]
ben_vulpes erc complains of :host [02:34]
ben_vulpes which yes, i'd complain of as well [02:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66526 @ 0.00056332 = 37.4754 BTC [+] {2} [02:35]
mod6 Bitcoin version [02:35]
asciilifeform mod6: wai wut [02:35]
asciilifeform counting to what, zero ? [02:35]
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asciilifeform gonna step through 0.5.3 again, .2, .1 ?? [02:36]
ben_vulpes !up renart [02:36]
ben_vulpes mother shit fucker [02:36]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> counting to what, zero ? << it did show in the log already when i started with -setvernum=99998 [02:36]
mod6 so far, this is good. [02:36]
ben_vulpes am i authed or not [02:36]
mod6 gonna check getinfo in a sec. [02:37]
asciilifeform mod6: try to also understand where the original mistake was. [02:37]
asciilifeform (it is educational) [02:37]
* assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes [02:37]
asciilifeform mine, that is [02:37]
ben_vulpes !up renart [02:37]
* assbot gives voice to renart [02:37]
mod6 # ps ax | grep bitcoind && LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getinfo | grep version [02:37]
mod6 22877 pts/1 SLl 0:54 ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin -myip= -addnode= -setverstring=trb -setvernum=99998 [02:37]
mod6 22900 pts/1 S+ 0:00 grep --colour=auto bitcoind "version" : 99998, [02:37]
renart asciilifeform: for lulz, dcc it to me again? [02:37]
mod6 looks good [02:38]
asciilifeform 'no route to host' [02:38]
mod6 there is supposed to be a line break up here ^ but didn't translate through the copy [02:38]
mod6 i'll see if i can figure out wtf I did differently tomorrow. [02:38]
renart a well [02:38]
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mod6 ok will look again at it tomorrow. thanks ascii, g'night! [02:39]
asciilifeform goodnight mod6 [02:39]
* asciilifeform bbl. [02:40]
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ben_vulpes also how is 40M too large for a webserver? [02:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13435 @ 0.00055867 = 7.5057 BTC [-] [03:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46273 @ 0.00056055 = 25.9383 BTC [+] {2} [03:14]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28831 @ 0.00056578 = 16.312 BTC [+] {2} [03:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44600 @ 0.00056358 = 25.1357 BTC [-] {3} [03:42]
BingoBoingo [03:43]
assbot ... ( ) [03:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44550 @ 0.0005571 = 24.8188 BTC [-] {4} [03:44]
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BingoBoingo [03:54]
assbot John Scott scores twice, named MVP after leading Pacific to All-Star win ... ( ) [03:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104100 @ 0.00056602 = 58.9227 BTC [+] {3} [03:56]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00056671 = 8.8973 BTC [+] [04:05]
ben_vulpes lol even vex has commentary on the dccpisode [04:08]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: [04:09]
assbot The Streets - Stay Positive - YouTube ... ( ) [04:09]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 401 @ 0.0035 = 1.4035 BTC [+] [04:19]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72700 @ 0.00056661 = 41.1925 BTC [-] [05:38]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17386 @ 0.00056661 = 9.8511 BTC [-] [05:42]
danielpbarron deedbot- [05:51]
assbot ... ( ) [05:51]
deedbot- imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14 [05:51]
danielpbarron ;;later tell felipelalli ^^^ also >> [05:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [05:52]
assbot irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [05:52]
danielpbarron deedbot- [05:53]
assbot ... ( ) [05:53]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [05:53]
* danielpbarron bows [05:53]
danielpbarron << ok but please bear with me; i think i should stop my current bitcoind, make a backup, and start this one fresh. I'm not really set up for running two at once at the moment. [06:02]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 18:13:52; mod6: danielpbarron: hey there Sir, wanna update the wiki & test the steps from a newb standpoint when you get a moment? Y^ [06:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 134300 @ 0.00056671 = 76.1092 BTC [+] [06:28]
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danielpbarron >> Sometimes regular expressions can get messy. That's what she sed. << found on twatter. laughed. [07:15]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54400 @ 0.00056671 = 30.829 BTC [+] [07:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00056652 = 3.1725 BTC [-] {2} [07:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44300 @ 0.00056621 = 25.0831 BTC [-] [07:53]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79600 @ 0.00056684 = 45.1205 BTC [+] {3} [08:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100552 @ 0.00056612 = 56.9245 BTC [-] {5} [08:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138624 @ 0.00056278 = 78.0148 BTC [-] {5} [08:47]
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punkman re:deleuze&guattari: Once upon a time I was scrolling through a big pile 1337 w4r3z, and I saw "A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and I thought "maybe that'll be interesting". I opened it on my crappy ebook tablet, flipped through some pages. The moment I thought "this shit's unreadable isn't it", the tablet died, never to come back. [09:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14550 @ 0.00056323 = 8.195 BTC [+] {2} [09:00]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 284750 @ 0.00056144 = 159.87 BTC [-] {3} [09:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00056671 = 73.8423 BTC [+] {4} [09:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64200 @ 0.00056339 = 36.1696 BTC [-] {2} [10:08]
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polarbeard mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: here is the logging patch split up in three:, and [10:24]
assbot ... ( ) [10:24]
assbot polarbeard_better_log_messages.vpatch · GitHub ... ( ) [10:24]
assbot polarbeard_fix_instance_print.vpatch · GitHub ... ( ) [10:24]
mircea_popescu danke, will look. [10:24]
mircea_popescu finishing a little earth shatter of my own right now :D [10:24]
polarbeard :) [10:25]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39857 @ 0.00056702 = 22.5997 BTC [+] {2} [10:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34843 @ 0.00056711 = 19.7598 BTC [+] {2} [10:41]
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copypaste kakobrekla: I'd like to make a request if you have a moment. When I get my OTP from assbot, it sends the header `Content-Type: application/json; charset=utf-8` ... This causes my browser to incorrectly interpret GnuPG documents as JSON, so it spews annoying errors which prevent me from just doing Ctrl-A wit, "There was an error parsing the JSON document. The document may not be [10:43]
copypaste well-formed." "unexpected character at line 1 column 1 " [10:43]
kakobrekla changed to 'text/plain' if that helps [10:47]
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* assbot gives voice to PeterL [10:48]
PeterL << so I just restarted bitcoind, using -connect to all the trb nodes in the wiki, it looks like only Inciatus is letting me connect, the rest are refusing my connection? [10:49]
assbot ... ( ) [10:50]
PeterL It looks like it is going through the list, trying to connect to each node and repeatedly getting disconnected, should I stop it and restart only connect to the one node which is connected? [10:52]
mircea_popescu are you on aws ? [10:52]
PeterL no [10:53]
mircea_popescu this should probably be debugged. [10:53]
PeterL well I am connected to something, not sure which one it is [10:56]
kakobrekla you must be getting banned by that banhammer patch [10:57]
copypaste kakobrekla: yes, text/plain is perfect. thanks [10:58]
kakobrekla k [10:58]
jurov m$ heard alf and going underwater [10:59]
assbot Project Natick ... ( ) [10:59]
jurov straight from horse's mouth: "With the end of Moore’s Law, the cadence at which servers are refreshed with new and improved hardware in the datacenter is likely to slow significantly." [10:59]
PeterL Now I have 3 connections [11:00]
PeterL is there a way to list the connections? [11:01]
mircea_popescu hey, ~i~ said moore law's dead! [11:05]
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BingoBoingo Who's racis now? [11:19]
assbot White officers slower to shoot black suspects, new study finds : News ... ( ) [11:19]
BingoBoingo "But the study also showed that when holding guns in more realistic simulations, the same officers were faster to shoot whites." [11:20]
BingoBoingo "The report says that in realistic situations, the officers waited about a quarter of a second longer to shoot armed black men than white — and they fired by mistake on unarmed white men three times more often than on blacks." [11:20]
mircea_popescu ;;nethash [11:21]
gribble 1064249248.94 [11:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.00056712 = 30.9648 BTC [+] [11:23]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes mod6 if teh esteemed foundation'd give an opinion on kthx. [11:24]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [11:24]
* assbot gives voice to polarbeard [11:24]
polarbeard PeterL: getpeerinfo@0.7.0, it needs to be backported: [11:25]
assbot RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... ( ) [11:25]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: is there any reason against that one? I miss it too [11:26]
mircea_popescu they'll prolly want to do it in scheme now. but anyway, if you want it for production reasons, go right ahead. [11:26]
jurov mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform : do I understand right sha512 is hardwired in V? is there a space for sane upgrade path? [11:27]
mircea_popescu jurov rebasing. [11:27]
polarbeard aha I see, but maybe ascii can trash the jsonrpc part and keep the functionality itself? [11:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133423 @ 0.00056497 = 75.38 BTC [-] {3} [11:27]
mircea_popescu polarbeard it won't hurt anything writing a backport patch for it if you feel like it. [11:28]
mircea_popescu whether it'll be used or not is unclear, so i wouldn't TELL you to do it, but if you want to do it by all means. [11:28]
polarbeard all right [11:29]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: But if you could write that funtionality in Scheme, you might get some love for it. [11:30]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo for the record, the one most important factor in how long they wait to shoot should be and probably is "how weird this shit is". [11:30]
mircea_popescu as in they'd prolly shoot aliens even faster. so in this sense, the study's useless without looking at what environment those guys operate in. [11:30]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo eh it's unclear whether that can be done just yet or not. whole different kettle of soup. [11:31]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I dunno, they shot Lavoy Finicum pretty fast. [11:31]
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mircea_popescu << i should hope these were the same "trained specialists" that started the wholly hallucinated "family abuse" moral panic of the 90s. [11:32]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 05:04:44; BingoBoingo: "But when she was questioned by trained specialists three days later “she immediately admitted that the story of the rape was not true”, said the spokesman for the state prosecutor, Martin Steltner. " [11:32]
mircea_popescu what a grand time for the state that was! for the first time ever it got its way with everyones' children [11:32]
polarbeard BingoBoingo: that's a good idea, I'll try after backporting this one [11:32]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well it's the german "trained experts" so who knows [11:33]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell pete_dushenski I believe [11:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [11:33]
assbot BitBet - Connor McDavid will live up to the hype :: 0.45 B (3%) on Yes, 12.72 B (97%) on No | closed 1 day 14 hours ago ... ( ) [11:33]
mircea_popescu << i do. [11:33]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 05:16:50; asciilifeform: << i looked in the prb crud when we had this thread, found no such thing, recall [11:33]
mircea_popescu << poverty limit. ask the world bank :D [11:35]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 05:19:55; pete_dushenski: myea, i don't think we go through $1/day of diapers [11:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48809 @ 0.00056424 = 27.54 BTC [-] {2} [11:38]
mircea_popescu << it's readable in the sense every other contemporary industrial process is "machineable" or "approachable" or whatever. with heavy equipment, not with bare hands and eyes. [11:39]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 11:59:31; punkman: re:deleuze&guattari: Once upon a time I was scrolling through a big pile 1337 w4r3z, and I saw "A Thousand Plateaus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia" and I thought "maybe that'll be interesting". I opened it on my crappy ebook tablet, flipped through some pages. The moment I thought "this shit's unreadable isn't it", the tablet died, never to come back. [11:39]
deedbot- [Trilema] The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol - [11:40]
mircea_popescu polarbeard don't put commas immediately after urls it fucks things up [11:40]
polarbeard ok [11:40]
mircea_popescu perhaps i'm not understanding something, but where's all the list of fixed returns ? [11:41]
polarbeard fixed returns? [11:41]
mircea_popescu your original thing had a lot of - return ; + return (hey we fucked up at %d); [11:42]
mircea_popescu oh last one nm [11:42]
phf jurov: v uses hash as a lookup key, so in that sense algo agnostic. you can mix and match as long as from and to hashes linkup [11:42]
polarbeard ok, anyway here is the old for reference: [11:43]
assbot polarbeard_logging_sanity.vpatch · GitHub ... ( ) [11:43]
mircea_popescu polarbeard do you have the tags you use enumerated anywhere ? [11:46]
polarbeard enumerated as an actual enum? [11:47]
polarbeard they're defined here, [11:47]
assbot polarbeard_better_log_messages.vpatch · GitHub ... ( ) [11:48]
mircea_popescu omfg what is the purpose of putting clicable line numbers in github if all they do is blink. GIMME AN ANCHOR MOTHERFUCKING IDIOTS [11:48]
mircea_popescu wait that works ? [11:48]
polarbeard lol :D [11:48]
mircea_popescu [11:49]
assbot ... ( ) [11:49]
mircea_popescu omfg how do you get it ? [11:49]
polarbeard do they blink? what do you use mosaic? :D [11:49]
polarbeard click on first line number, then second, it makes a range [11:49]
mircea_popescu not here. [11:50]
polarbeard oh sorry, hold shift to make a range [11:50]
mircea_popescu anyway, dbenv.set_lg_max(1000000); < wut ? [11:50]
phf mircea_popescu: [11:50]
assbot polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( ) [11:50]
polarbeard oh, yep nice catch [11:51]
mircea_popescu bless you phf! [11:51]
mircea_popescu ok polarbeard if you don't mind we'll use his version it's about 500 times better than github [11:51]
BingoBoingo [11:52]
mircea_popescu phf d oyou want a domain name ? hosting ? [11:52]
polarbeard haha [11:53]
polarbeard [11:53]
mircea_popescu sooo... [11:53]
mircea_popescu +#define SERR "ERR " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SWAR "WAR " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SINF "INF " [11:54]
mircea_popescu + [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SPRC "PRC " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SMEM "MEM " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SADR "ADR " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SBLK "BLK " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SNET "NET " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SWAL "WAL " [11:54]
mircea_popescu +#define SMIN "MIN " [11:54]
phf mircea_popescu: a domain name [11:54]
mircea_popescu any idea what these are ? how they were selected ? etc ? [11:54]
mircea_popescu phf lemme see what i have. [11:54]
phf mircea_popescu: just point whatever you have to that ip, and i'll fix the settings to get it working [11:54]
mircea_popescu you have a ns ? [11:55]
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phf no [11:55]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: you mean how those macro strings are actually used? [11:56]
mircea_popescu i dunno if you see this, but the way the flags are set impacts many people downstream. [11:56]
polarbeard hows that? [11:56]
mircea_popescu because if i want to search my logs ima have to use your flags. [11:57]
mircea_popescu and they are MY logs. [11:57]
polarbeard propose a change? [11:57]
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mircea_popescu well we're not there yet, so far just asking how you designed it / how you selected the list etc. [11:57]
polarbeard oh, three chars were long enough to identify each label, while being short enough to not add many dead bytes to the log [11:58]
mircea_popescu yes but which flags are used for which kind of messages, how we select the kinds, that sorta thing [11:58]
mircea_popescu what's your rulebook to know what message goes in which flag ? [11:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109991 @ 0.00056288 = 61.9117 BTC [-] {4} [11:59]
polarbeard ok, that requires some explanation, you're right [12:00]
mircea_popescu it's an important point, must be documented well. [12:00]
polarbeard priorities are clear? infos are totally harmless, warns alert about something actually done and errors alert about the impossibility to do something [12:00]
mircea_popescu well at this level yes, but we'll see more once i actually go throuygh the list, rulebook in hand. [12:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86569 @ 0.00056138 = 48.5981 BTC [-] [12:01]
mircea_popescu phf how about ? [12:03]
polarbeard ok, PRC is about the process (there is only a few msgs about that one), MEM is the mempool (IO and verification), ADR is the address index, BLK is about the block index (IO and verification), NET is about all the p2p traffic, WAL is about the wallet, MIN is about the miner process [12:04]
phf that works [12:05]
mircea_popescu now lemme see how the fuck i get this ns'd. [12:06]
mircea_popescu phf set up an A record, should do the trick, hopefully. [12:06]
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mircea_popescu polarbeard i see. [12:13]
mircea_popescu and these are prefixed by I W or A for info warn or alert ? [12:14]
mircea_popescu waht is "SINF" by this logic ? [12:14]
polarbeard SINF -> info, SWAR -> warn, SERR -> err [12:14]
polarbeard *error [12:15]
mircea_popescu i c! [12:16]
mircea_popescu anyway, as a general comment : next time start the whole process by designing this. it's a great spot to start! [12:17]
polarbeard yes, I need to get used to document stuff, I'll submit as much as I can to the ml if it passes [12:19]
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BingoBoingo Another forking Hearnia [12:22]
assbot Current Bitcoin XT contains a network splitting bug. Rather than behaving responsibly, the maintainers of BitcoinXT are smearing the developers of Bitcoin Core (whom had nothing to do with their bug). : bitcoinxt ... ( ) [12:22]
mircea_popescu seems like they hired solidcoin to do their strategy. [12:26]
mircea_popescu anyone recall that 2012 brand of lolz ? [12:26]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: Nice new trilema article. [12:26]
mircea_popescu you can now tell all your sm friends lol. [12:26]
BingoBoingo I came in in time to do a pretty fresh forensics on that lol [12:27]
thestringpuller The r/btc will eat it up "If we include this change we may get a blocksize increase yay!!!!1111" [12:27]
BingoBoingo SolidCoin History: [12:28]
assbot Cycles Repeat Themselves: McxNow | Bingo Blog ... ( ) [12:28]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo aha! [12:28]
mircea_popescu polarbeard aite. ima slog through this, mind you that it's 2k lines will take hours. [12:28]
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mircea_popescu !up Tasoshi [12:30]
-assbot- You voiced Tasoshi for 30 minutes. [12:30]
* assbot gives voice to Tasoshi [12:30]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: totally understandable, I wanted to split that ones in two steps: first adding labels and then modifying the messages, but that would have ended in having 4k lines :) [12:32]
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mircea_popescu no it's right as it is. [12:33]
mircea_popescu which is why i'm doing it. [12:33]
mircea_popescu polarbeard < plox no ' in loglines so people don't have to escape the shit out of parsing. [12:33]
assbot polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( ) [12:33]
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mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [12:33]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [12:33]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [12:33]
thestringpuller how's the labor camp? [12:34]
mircea_popescu phf and btw, did i say how much i like the blue and red and shit ? [12:34]
assbot intoDNS: - check DNS server and mail server health ... ( ) [12:34]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: mmm for me the ranges in that site don't work, which line is it? [12:35]
mircea_popescu oh. [12:35]
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mircea_popescu + printf(SERR SBLK "can't create database file %s
", strFileRes.c_str());
Tasoshi So Satoshi's great test to determine whether bitcoin can operate through decentralised consensus is now on. mircea_popescu, I have been looking at some old posts and it seemed that in 2013 you agreed with Satoshi and his vision. What exactly did you learn in 2013 to turn yourself against Satoshi's vision itself? [12:35]
mircea_popescu can you be specific ? [12:35]
Tasoshi I am sure you know your own history better than I [12:35]
mircea_popescu fine, if you must. "meanwhile i read the code". [12:36]
mircea_popescu what fucking vision. [12:36]
punkman mircea_popescu: re:sha3-digest, here's one idea, asic miners can get around recalculating the digest on every hash by changing the merkle-root/timestamp instead of the nonce [12:36]
Tasoshi to scale on chain so as to give the security and privacy of onchain transactions to all [12:36]
mircea_popescu punkman quite, yes. this is deliberate. [12:36]
mircea_popescu won't be too easy tho, asic needs EVEN MORE ram that way. [12:36]
mircea_popescu (miners currently use this incidentally, to some degree) [12:37]
BingoBoingo Tasoshi: Seriously give the Bitcoin code a read. Version 0.3.21, 0.5.4, 0.7.2, and 0.8 are all essential reading [12:37]
punkman why even more ram? [12:37]
thestringpuller 0.8 is so crufty [12:37]
Tasoshi I am enquiring what exactly changed your opinion in 2013? [12:37]
Tasoshi is one propaganta video sufficient to turn you all against the genius of satoshi? [12:37]
BingoBoingo thestringpuller: Which is why It's on the reading list [12:37]
ascii_butugychag << still monstrous [12:37]
BingoBoingo Oh MP watched a video without penises? [12:37]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 13:23:16; polarbeard: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: here is the logging patch split up in three:, and [12:37]
thestringpuller yup. look at what the power rangers have done! [12:37]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag yes but now necessarily monstruous [12:38]
thestringpuller !gettrust Tasoshi [12:38]
assbot Tasoshi is not registered in WoT. [12:38]
mircea_popescu polarbeard incidentally, did you leave any nude returns ? [12:38]
ascii_butugychag << holy shit, incitatus has been running with a full disk and 0 maintenance for months [12:38]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 13:48:58; PeterL: << so I just restarted bitcoind, using -connect to all the trb nodes in the wiki, it looks like only Inciatus is letting me connect, the rest are refusing my connection? [12:38]
mircea_popescu full disk is best disk! [12:38]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i disagree that the mega-turd that touches 10,000 lines is justified. [12:39]
Tasoshi I mean, it is true isn't it mircea_popescu that you agreed with onchain scaling in 2013? But anyway looks like you guys are busy so I'll leave you to it. [12:39]
mircea_popescu dude the fucking returns have to be fixed. [12:39]
mircea_popescu there's no way around this. what would you do ? [12:39]
ascii_butugychag << obvious-idea is obvious!1111 [12:39]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 13:58:29; jurov: m$ heard alf and going underwater [12:39]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: what returns [12:40]
mircea_popescu - return error("BANNED peer issuing unknown inv type."); [12:40]
mircea_popescu for instance. [12:40]
ascii_butugychag what is wrong with these ? [12:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75572 @ 0.00056712 = 42.8584 BTC [+] [12:41]
mircea_popescu it doesn't say WHO was banned [12:41]
ascii_butugychag << the sane upgrade path is TO THERMONUKE GNUDIFF and have turing-complete operation set! [12:41]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 14:26:12; jurov: mod6 ben_vulpes asciilifeform : do I understand right sha512 is hardwired in V? is there a space for sane upgrade path? [12:41]
mircea_popescu and flags would be nice [12:41]
Tasoshi [12:41]
assbot The MAX_BLOCK_SIZE fork ... ( ) [12:41]
Tasoshi what polluted your mind? [12:41]
PeterL ascii_butugychag I think I was wrong, it is not inciatus to which I connected, looks like Dulap? [12:42]
mircea_popescu Tasoshi looky, im sure you have nice intentions et all, but intentions don't matter. put some actual sweat into it. answer the original question, answer it well rather than flailing around. [12:42]
Tasoshi what question [12:42]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: that'd make more sense, dulap is my flagship [12:42]
Tasoshi Why do you not tell me and all what corrupted your mind to make you turn against the genius of satoshi? [12:43]
ascii_butugychag << the 'poverty limit' is a crock of shit, many of the supposedly-'poor' live rent-free [12:43]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 14:34:29; mircea_popescu: << poverty limit. ask the world bank :D [12:43]
BingoBoingo Tasoshi: Didn't you see there's a way to get MP to buy into a hard fork? [12:44]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [12:44]
Tasoshi You've been deceived by all sorts of scaremongering about abstract concept such as centralised decentralised whatever [12:45]
Tasoshi if you do not think 51% will be honest, then sell your bitcoins..... [12:46]
PeterL tasoshi, who are you? [12:46]
thestringpuller Tasoshi: you are flailing about in a seizure like manner. [12:46]
Tasoshi if you do, then why should you restrict access to all? [12:46]
Tasoshi and turn this into a super centralised kyc aml settlement nonsense [12:46]
Tasoshi and all it took is 1 video? [12:46]
BingoBoingo Tasoshi: What video [12:47]
thestringpuller there will always be mr. spams [12:47]
Tasoshi The propaganda video which is probably the only thing that convinced mr mircea_popescu [12:48]
PeterL mircea_popescu watched a video? [12:48]
mircea_popescu lmao what! [12:48]
BingoBoingo Tasoshi: You gotta specify the video [12:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056712 = 12.4766 BTC [+] [12:49]
BingoBoingo Tasoshi: Is this the video? [12:49]
assbot mommy handjob is step son - ... ( ) [12:49]
Tasoshi [12:49]
assbot Why the blocksize limit keeps Bitcoin free and decentralized - YouTube ... ( ) [12:49]
Tasoshi it is amazing how professional that video is for 2013 [12:49]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [12:49]
Tasoshi as you all remember, all videos about bitcoin were super amateur back then [12:50]
Tasoshi except for this one..... [12:50]
Tasoshi and you all fell for it [12:50]
jurov Tasoshi nonsense. I personally was convinced by stuff like this: [12:50]
assbot BitBet - Bitcoin Standardized Protocol Approved this Summer :: 2.7 B (24%) on Yes, 8.72 B (76%) on No | closed 2 years 5 months ago ... ( ) [12:50]
BingoBoingo Tasoshi: My browser doesn't play yourtube videos [12:50]
jurov i.e. devteam just rushing to enhance and extend without putting things on stable footing [12:51]
jurov and you know what comes after embrace and extend [12:51]
mircea_popescu polarbeard mno, this is no good, it doesn;t solve the naked return problem. for instance (all from bitcoinrpc.cpp) : return error; at line 44 ; return "bitcoin server stopping"; line 162 sorta thing. [12:53]
Tasoshi what I find surprising is that the propaganda video has any persuasive power when it visually shows its settlement system as being very centralised - that is many people connecting to 1 hub/bank... [12:53]
mircea_popescu not to mention assorted garbage like throw runtime_error() [12:54]
mircea_popescu and my god, the return ret; stuff already [12:54]
mircea_popescu !down Tasoshi [12:54]
* assbot removes voice from Tasoshi [12:54]
mircea_popescu they ran out of reddit or something ? [12:54]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: what's your objection to throw runtime_error ? [12:55]
BingoBoingo Prolly ran out of reddit [12:55]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag i didn't object to it in principle, but it's also not covered by the new logging model. [12:56]
mircea_popescu i do object to return ret; in principle. [12:56]
polarbeard mircea_popescu: I didn't know it was expected to solve it, but ok, I see this patch is consuming too much time from everybody... [12:56]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: what new logging model [12:56]
mircea_popescu polarbeard i dunno that it was expected to either. prolly isn't, really. just, bitcoin code is too layered, random and messy. [12:57]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag lemme summarize this for you. bitcoin eminently keeps shitty logs. a new guy came in and undertood the monstrous task of trying to fix that. [12:57]
mircea_popescu this has on one side exposed a lot of the underlying grime, and on the other side is bugging your centralist mind because you don't want to read thousands of lines of patchwork. [12:58]
polarbeard to be honest, I see this thing going forward if I don't have to generate a new patch again [12:58]
mircea_popescu nevertheless : the grime's still there, and bitcoin would do a lot better with a better logging system [12:58]
ascii_butugychag the ~original~ grime is only cleanable at tremendous cost. [12:58]
polarbeard so if I can add another patch on top of these I will keep working on it but I'm tired of rediffing... [12:58]
ascii_butugychag and really oughta be lisped. [12:58]
mircea_popescu polarbeard aha. [12:58]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag yeah well. [12:59]
ascii_butugychag shiva hooks on everything, and programmable log mechanism in ~that~. [12:59]
mircea_popescu understand : you can't prevent people from working nor should you try. [12:59]
ascii_butugychag i in particular can't prevent anybody from doing anything. [12:59]
ascii_butugychag but will pronounce - 'this is braindamaged and i will not sign.' [12:59]
ascii_butugychag fwiw. [12:59]
ascii_butugychag ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu - can, obviously, do what they like. [13:00]
mircea_popescu well the v is well designed to be forgiving and helpful. [13:00]
mircea_popescu anyway, yes, i'm taking the time from my days of orgies and icecream to read this thing. [13:00]
ascii_butugychag briefly, unrelatedly, mircea_popescu 'the keccak function takes unlimited input' << what ?! [13:01]
phf can imagine future where ascii big trb senator is forced by opposition forces to sign, "i will not siiiign" [13:01]
mircea_popescu hehehe. thanks god we are better than that stupid shit. [13:01]
mircea_popescu "FOR SIIIIGNLET!!!!" [13:01]
ascii_butugychag l0l!z [13:01]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag it's my recollection you can apply it on an endless pile of data, neh ? [13:01]
ascii_butugychag also keccak has same problem as predecessor, silicon will be baked, we get mining cartels again. [13:02]
mircea_popescu you gotta read carefully. [13:02]
mircea_popescu CAREFULLY. [13:02]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: you can apply ~any~ hash to endless pile [13:02]
* ascii_butugychag goes, reads, again [13:02]
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* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [13:04]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [13:05]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:05]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i still don't grasp the 'technological reasons' from footnote v [13:06]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag is asic going to store the whole chain ? [13:07]
ascii_butugychag it can be in a drive. [13:07]
mircea_popescu can that drive seek 300k specific bytes on demand ? [13:07]
mircea_popescu if you have a drive that seeks and also updates, why not have a cpu ? [13:08]
mircea_popescu the only reason asics exist is because sha256 you can do by hand on paper. [13:08]
ascii_butugychag i also vaguely recall ^this aspect being appealing to mircea_popescu ? [13:08]
ascii_butugychag (slavecoin!) [13:08]
mircea_popescu yes there's some economy of scale to be had with well designed flash banks, made each the size of a block etc. [13:08]
mircea_popescu but that also means block size gets BAKED IN SILICONE [13:09]
mircea_popescu so whatever new value we agree upon, it's fixed. [13:09]
ascii_butugychag might bring exotical like holo storage out of the circus and into actual production [13:09]
ascii_butugychag *exotica [13:09]
mircea_popescu aha. [13:09]
mircea_popescu obviously there's no insurance against future technology. [13:09]
punkman why not 1tb of ram? [13:09]
ascii_butugychag and how is block size any more fixed in the proposed scheme than in the old ? [13:09]
mircea_popescu but on the basis of what we currently known, a strict coupling there (4 or less bits of shift) is untractable [13:09]
ascii_butugychag in either case, if changed - fork [13:10]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag different incentives. as it is now, changing the size doesn't automatically brick all miners. [13:10]
ascii_butugychag and i can easily go buy 1tb of ram whenever, as can anybody [13:10]
mircea_popescu this is an oversight. they want a change, fine, but they must fully commit to it. [13:10]
mircea_popescu 1tb of ram will be overwhelmed by 20mb blocks in a few years. [13:10]
mircea_popescu moreover, you still need all the accesses. [13:11]
mircea_popescu the ~only way to do this in silicone is to make blocksized banks and line them up. [13:11]
mircea_popescu this will be done eventually, as the article says. but not without its costs. [13:11]
punkman mutating the merkle root just needs some sha256 hashing though [13:13]
* samO_ (~samO@unaffiliated/samo) has joined #bitcoin-assets [13:13]
mircea_popescu sure. [13:13]
mircea_popescu but is also finite. [13:13]
punkman is not [13:13]
mircea_popescu how do you mean ? [13:13]
ascii_butugychag 20mb blocks?! [13:14]
punkman you just put the nonce in coinbase, isn't it equivalent to mutating the actual nonce? [13:14]
ascii_butugychag and what is so great about miners == nodes ? [13:15]
jurov deedbot-: [13:15]
assbot ... ( ) [13:15]
ascii_butugychag recipe for remaking swift ? [13:15]
mircea_popescu punkman yes, up until people start rejecting nonstandard blocks. [13:15]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [13:15]
ascii_butugychag where there are a dozen nodes, forever. [13:15]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag what do you mean ? [13:15]
punkman you can encode that nonce in standard coinbase outputs [13:15]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: centralization [13:15]
mircea_popescu punkman yes, but costs money and takes time. [13:15]
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mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag can you be explicit for crying out loud. [13:16]
ascii_butugychag right now we have gangrene in one leg. what is an improvement about having ~two~ ? [13:16]
mircea_popescu what's a word gonna do. [13:16]
punkman mircea_popescu: orders of magnitude cheaper than recalculating nonce+digest [13:16]
ascii_butugychag requiring elaborate hardware to mine adds to, rather than takes away from, centralization. [13:16]
jurov trinque: says "Last updated 2016-01-27" [13:16]
ascii_butugychag and the ssd cartel is cackling as we speak, reading this [13:17]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag this is a general principle that works generally. [13:17]
ascii_butugychag suddenly ssd is plutonium. [13:17]
ascii_butugychag fuck that [13:17]
mircea_popescu ssd is A LOT easier to make than fucking asics. [13:17]
ascii_butugychag mno. [13:17]
ascii_butugychag this is demonstrably untrue. [13:17]
ascii_butugychag 'btc asic' is really 1980s-level vlsi. [13:18]
mircea_popescu punkman not really. for one thing, now it's finite. [13:18]
mircea_popescu that's no demonstration of anything. [13:18]
ascii_butugychag and south kr, usg muppet, owns ~100% of ssd fabrication. [13:18]
ascii_butugychag thinkaboutit [13:18]
ascii_butugychag they have a stranglehold [13:19]
mircea_popescu this is like saying russia makes all mop buckets and so they have a stranglehold. [13:19]
mircea_popescu and ukrainian whores have a stranglehold on german streetwalking. [13:19]
mircea_popescu yeah, i'm sure they do. why ? [13:19]
ascii_butugychag realize that cn would profit tremendously from making own ssd [13:20]
ascii_butugychag and still has not. [13:20]
mircea_popescu because it's the easiest thing to do and they're entry level. [13:20]
ascii_butugychag because it is not a fucking mop bucket [13:20]
mircea_popescu heh. [13:20]
ascii_butugychag it is something that ONE country has any kind of reasonable tooling to make. [13:20]
* contrapumpkin is now known as copumpkin [13:20]
trinque jurov: btcd is choking on the transaction representing felipelalli's deed; I've been looking at it [13:20]
mircea_popescu anyway. this adds the "need chinese foundries" to "need sk sdd" for maximal ,ulz. [13:20]
trinque perhaps it is a matter of the key generated being invalid, though I would've expected the bits I'm using for pubkey/address generation to barf at that, and didn't [13:20]
mircea_popescu trinque maybe it's high s :D [13:21]
trinque meanwhile the trb node is now at 383k, thanks to new SSD [13:21]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: why not, while you're at it, premine 100% of the coins and just hand them to seoul. [13:21]
ascii_butugychag same effect. [13:21]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag anyway, the only thign this does is that if implemented, you could alter dulap code slightly and produce usable digest blocks for sale to pay for the node. [13:21]
ascii_butugychag for sale to whom ? [13:21]
mircea_popescu miners. [13:21]
ascii_butugychag who wants this, for what ? [13:21]
mircea_popescu miners need to know that nonces x to x' are ok to mine with digest Z [13:22]
mircea_popescu and you have a cpu and a hdd, and can just produce this information. [13:22]
ascii_butugychag i think i have a stronger chance of flying to mircea_popescu's house on a glider powered by my own farts, than for this to so much as budge the schelling point from bitcoin by so much as a nanometre. [13:22]
mircea_popescu and it'll be way the fuck cheaper for them to buy it from you than for them to bake a cpu and hdd into the 80s era vlsi. [13:22]
ascii_butugychag why would anyone value this, for anything ? [13:22]
mircea_popescu for the obvious reason. [13:23]
mircea_popescu it heals the node-miner breach. [13:23]
ascii_butugychag i get that miners without nodes are retarded, but that is easily fixed just by requiring whole-block hash in the nonce rather than the idiot header system [13:24]
ascii_butugychag and nukes pools, at the same time [13:24]
mircea_popescu (they way this is likely going to be asic'd is by keeping rainbow tables, and just adding octets. nevertheless - this STILL requires the whole chain be preserved. even if in a diff format) [13:24]
ascii_butugychag what i don't get is what desirable thing the workfunction change accomplishes [13:24]
mircea_popescu how is this a workfunction change ? [13:24]
ascii_butugychag attempt at 'i/o-hard' workfunction [13:25]
mircea_popescu i mean. how is this more or different of a workfunction change. [13:25]
mircea_popescu nah, it's just making sure people actually have the chain. all of it. [13:25]
ascii_butugychag that much i can see, is a desirable thing [13:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38023 @ 0.00056506 = 21.4853 BTC [-] {2} [13:25]
punkman would you have to recalculate the digest to verify any incoming blocks as a node? [13:26]
deedbot- [Qntra] Ether Huffing Reddit Spam Persists - [13:26]
mircea_popescu punkman probably. unless you keep a table of historical chain by nonces. [13:26]
mircea_popescu with an unshifted nonce, this is ~impossible, of course, you're not keeping maxint times 200kb+ entries. [13:28]
BingoBoingo punkman: Why haven't you submitted a writeup on the Liberty Reserve thing yet? [13:28]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag anyway, if the nice folks of whatever wish to change bitcoin more in the sense of, full block hash not headers, i wouldn't automatically reject it. i described a point which must be included, but i also said its details are open to discussion. [13:29]
mircea_popescu as long as that delivers this, i see no problem. [13:29]
punkman BingoBoingo: dunno, wasn't that interesting in retrospect [13:29]
ascii_butugychag i'm not convinced that it is possible for mircea_popescu and the secret cabal of the smallint other mircea_popescus to actually get off the bitcoin bus without perma-crashing the universe [13:30]
mircea_popescu hey, i'm not the one proposing change. [13:30]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77400 @ 0.00056428 = 43.6753 BTC [-] {3} [13:30]
mircea_popescu the observation that "you can't have any change until you clean up your room" shouldn't really be all that controversial. [13:31]
punkman mircea_popescu: what is a shifted nonce? [13:31]
mircea_popescu adolescentine fits re "but bucket of water could cause flood and rubbing things together starts fires so i shouldn't have to sweep" notwithstanding. [13:31]
ascii_butugychag and 'cleaned room' really means 0 cpp. [13:31]
ascii_butugychag this, i also have trouble seeing how it could be controversial. [13:32]
mircea_popescu punkman [13:32]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [13:32]
mircea_popescu does the selection work for you ? [13:32]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag i don't. nobody has learned anything else since 30 years ago. [13:32]
adlai punkman: right-shifting the nonce bits by N to make the hashed data update every 2^N blocks [13:32]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: you know full well that this is false. [13:32]
mircea_popescu yes, but you also know what i mean. [13:32]
ascii_butugychag cpp is braindamaged and is the reason why winblows is what it is. [13:32]
ascii_butugychag c is braindamaged and is the reason unix is braindamaged. [13:33]
ascii_butugychag see 1,001 old threadz... [13:33]
adlai ascii_butugychag: what did you mean by "requiring whole-block hash in the nonce"? [13:33]
ascii_butugychag at the root of both, is the fact that anything produced by 'coderz' is braindamaged. [13:33]
ascii_butugychag adlai: it means no pools. ever. [13:33]
ascii_butugychag anyone who mines has a full change of catching a block. [13:33]
ascii_butugychag *chance [13:34]
ascii_butugychag of [13:34]
mircea_popescu man you're being very unhelpful here. [13:34]
mircea_popescu wouldja simmer down and speak explicitly ? these are the logs! [13:34]
mircea_popescu they last forever! [13:34]
adlai i didn't ask what the implications are, or why, i'm asking what exactly your proposal is, implementation-wise [13:34]
ascii_butugychag adlai: are you familiar with how mining presently works ? [13:34]
ascii_butugychag and why pools are possible ? [13:34]
* adlai has not build his own ASICs [13:34]
adlai yes. [13:34]
mircea_popescu still nhot explicit. [13:34]
mircea_popescu "do you know that currently, all a miner needs is to know the header of the previous block to mine" "yes" [13:35]
punkman not the previous block [13:35]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [13:36]
mircea_popescu the wunderbar advantages of being explicit! others have something to talk to! [13:36]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [13:36]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [13:36]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:36]
ascii_butugychag ok i see what mircea_popescu meant [13:37]
adlai i just want to understand what ascii_butugychag suggested there, instead of each block header including the previous header's hash. i probably got thrown off by the word "nonce" leaking in there [13:37]
ascii_butugychag !s non-outsourceable [13:37]
assbot 6 results for 'non-outsourceable' : [13:37]
ascii_butugychag ^ there is more than one way of accomplishing this effect [13:37]
mircea_popescu see, i suspect ascii_butugychag this is the major contradiction here. your idea of safety is to make it non-outsourceable, but i suspect it'd be both better and safer to make it FAIRLY outsourceable. [13:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85750 @ 0.00056712 = 48.6305 BTC [+] [13:38]
ascii_butugychag why? [13:38]
mircea_popescu currently the problem appears to be "it being outsourceable", but really, the problem is that only blind outsourcing can be done. [13:38]
mircea_popescu why. because that's how the whole world was built. and how it works when it works. [13:38]
ascii_butugychag pools full of sheeple who can be steered, turned on a dime, are a Bad Thing [13:38]
punkman ascii_butugychag: did you figure out how to "non-outsourceable"? [13:38]
BingoBoingo BingoBoingo: dunno, wasn't that interesting in retrospect << As a general rule cases become far less interesting when pleas happen [13:38]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag yes but the solution is not to kill all the sheep. [13:39]
mircea_popescu make a fair environment for them. if they die, fine. [13:39]
ascii_butugychag why not ? [13:39]
mircea_popescu cuz cheaper plus you get to date the hottest sheeps. [13:39]
ascii_butugychag the more i think about it, the more it seems to me that mining is a catastrophic bug per se [13:40]
mircea_popescu yes. but to quote a great man, [13:40]
mircea_popescu so is the carnot cycle. [13:40]
ascii_butugychag introduces exactly the wrong incentives, and empowers the folks you least want in the driver's seat [13:41]
ascii_butugychag it remains to be shown that, like carnot cycle, mining cannot be escaped from. [13:41]
mircea_popescu fortunate that miners aren't in the driver's seat [13:41]
mircea_popescu anyway. heaven is built atop hell also. been doing fine. [13:42]
mircea_popescu i have no idea who makes their gaskets tho. [13:42]
ascii_butugychag buna. [13:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00056138 = 11.2276 BTC [-] {2} [13:52]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19161 @ 0.00056123 = 10.7537 BTC [-] {3} [14:01]
* assbot gives voice to funkenstein_ [14:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49679 @ 0.00056064 = 27.852 BTC [-] [14:02]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [14:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74000 @ 0.00056712 = 41.9669 BTC [+] [14:10]
funkenstein_ <-- afaik the only ways are 1) require coinbase receiver's signature in block header 2) remove coinbase from PoW hashed header [14:11]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 16:37:42; punkman: ascii_butugychag: did you figure out how to "non-outsourceable"? [14:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35959 @ 0.00056712 = 20.3931 BTC [+] {2} [14:17]
funkenstein_ number 2 being DOA of course :) [14:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84191 @ 0.00056761 = 47.7877 BTC [+] {4} [14:18]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [14:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52050 @ 0.00056258 = 29.2823 BTC [-] [14:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81826 @ 0.00056718 = 46.4101 BTC [+] {2} [14:55]
ben_vulpes nifty altcoin [14:58]
ben_vulpes latest and greatest in anti-drone technology: [14:59]
ascii_butugychag the measures against toy choppers is 100% 'majesty of the might of the state' crapolade theatre [15:10]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [15:10]
shinohai !up ascii_butugychag [15:10]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [15:10]
mircea_popescu funkenstein_ <-- afaik the only ways are 1) require coinbase receiver's signature in block header << this is rank nonsense. i'm not signing to receive bitcoin. [15:12]
mircea_popescu yes usg loves to present "fixes" of this nature. the odds of them making it in are about the same as the odds of obama being smart. [15:13]
ascii_butugychag wouldn't it be a sign from a fresh address at any rate ? [15:15]
ascii_butugychag how would this help hitler ? [15:16]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85164 @ 0.00056197 = 47.8596 BTC [-] {4} [15:19]
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shinohai <<< this will end well [15:25]
assbot Switch to Fortuna-based PRNG · sipa/bitcoin@ce2a03a · GitHub ... ( ) [15:25]
mircea_popescu o brother. [15:25]
mircea_popescu so blockstream really is running out of cash huh. [15:25]
ascii_butugychag and holy shit are their patches massive [15:25]
mircea_popescu +/** Add entropy to the pool directly. Use this for seeding or on-demand entropy. */ [15:26]
mircea_popescu my fave part. [15:26]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag you've lived a sheltered lyf alfie :D [15:26]
* assbot gives voice to mats [15:27]
ascii_butugychag wut [15:28]
jurov btw kto si chce zarobit bitcenty hranim: [15:28]
assbot Foxy’s Musings on Click-Slaves vs Apprentices and Their Choices in Ossasepia ... ( ) [15:28]
jurov eulora je trochu ako randomizovany eve online :D [15:28]
ascii_butugychag in other nyooz, turns out that golden-age opterons (just the chip) can be had for their weight in mere gold on 'ebay' [15:29]
ascii_butugychag by the crate. [15:29]
ascii_butugychag (anyone other than me cares?) [15:29]
mircea_popescu "all 1 comments - sorted by: best there doesn't seem to be anything here" << lol reddit. [15:29]
jurov ups wrong chan :D [15:29]
mircea_popescu jurov i could read that! [15:29]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag ~100 or so no ? [15:30]
ascii_butugychag aha same [15:30]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: and below [15:30]
ascii_butugychag depending on grade [15:30]
mircea_popescu yea [15:30]
mircea_popescu kinda what they always cost, in nominal terms [15:31]
mircea_popescu course inflation... [15:31]
kakobrekla which are the golde age ones according to alf? [15:32]
ascii_butugychag kakobrekla: pre-usgtronic-alwayson slave core [15:34]
* assbot gives voice to guruvan [15:34]
ascii_butugychag through late 2011 or so. [15:34]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: they sold for $2-3K usd new [15:34]
mircea_popescu aha [15:36]
ascii_butugychag so what means '100 is what they always cost' ? [15:37]
ascii_butugychag to produce ? [15:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67940 @ 0.00056628 = 38.4731 BTC [+] [15:59]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [16:01]
mod6 hey ascii_butugychag, so i figured out what my dumbass did yesterday. somehow, when looking at your fix patch - I missed the portion where you changed main.cpp altogether. [16:02]
mod6 probably was just going to fast. [16:02]
mod6 anyway, i created a new patch for PVS and did a regrind on malleus (since this one depends on main.cpp) [16:03]
mod6 compiled just fine, just kicked it off for a quick test... [16:04]
mod6 # ps aux | grep bitcoind && LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin getinfo | grep version [16:06]
mod6 root 31936 32.1 37.8 1741912 1453164 pts/7 SLl 19:01 0:55 ./bitcoind -datadir=/mnt/btc-dev/.bitcoin -myip= -addnode= -setverstring=trb -setvernum=99998 -lows [16:06]
mod6 root 31948 0.0 0.0 8924 708 pts/7 S+ 19:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto bitcoind [16:06]
mod6 "version" : 99998, [16:06]
mod6 so that looks like its doing the right thing, and the log was updated as well. [16:07]
phf ok, so [16:07]
assbot trb ... ( ) [16:07]
phf mircea_popescu: ^ [16:07]
phf which kind of broke the previous ip only links, i might fix that at some point [16:08]
polarbeard neato [16:08]
phf there's a bug of some sort, pretty sure your polarbeard_better_log_messages shouldn't press from asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected, i'll look into it tonight [16:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66600 @ 0.00056126 = 37.3799 BTC [-] {2} [16:09]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: take a look at these and let me know what you think, plz: && [16:10]
polarbeard I think it's correct though, 565faf3ef371f5e2178ae30c45b08b93415eeb92263486e68f2ac2e8f4c7900056e628804bf5c0707a90be946e0aeaebfcd0a391aab40de2e5d56e6bcbdccb1e bitcoin/src/db.cpp [16:10]
assbot ... ( ) [16:10]
assbot ... ( ) [16:10]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [16:11]
mod6 i must be stale ascii_butugychag [16:13]
mod6 someone up ascii_butugychag [16:13]
mod6 plzkthx [16:13]
trinque !up ascii_butugychag [16:14]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [16:14]
mod6 thanks trinque [16:14]
trinque yw [16:14]
phf polarbeard: it's not correct, since the graph is supposed to only show transitions, rather then descendants/antecedents. in this case polarbeard_better_log_messages touches util.h and util.cpp that are modified in polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file [16:14]
ascii_butugychag ty trinque. mod6: it looks fine [16:14]
ascii_butugychag i still think regrinds are a thing to be avoided whenever possible, but whatever [16:14]
phf in other words there might be an antecedent, but there's also other hunks in that file that should've prevented the linkage [16:15]
ascii_butugychag phf: your viewer is mighty spiffy, it is exactly what i wanted to make in september (and never had time) [16:15]
ascii_butugychag if it were given a place to pump in patches, we could finally give turdatron a proper burial [16:15]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: one fix every now and then isn't horrible or anything, id just hate to see the situation (like at usg-like job) where people create a turd, create a PR, and then have to keep chainging the PR until "ready" [16:16]
mod6 and a similar situation in V would be like 69 patches to patch the original patch. [16:16]
ascii_butugychag mod6: i found myself blowing the very tiny time budget i had, on regrinding [16:18]
ascii_butugychag and imho it is quite unnecessary [16:18]
ascii_butugychag and now, e.g., shiva is hosed, imho needlessly, and will have to be reground [16:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82200 @ 0.00056125 = 46.1348 BTC [-] {2} [16:18]
ascii_butugychag instead of my being able to add something useful to it [16:18]
polarbeard phf: I don't follow, db.cpp is what generates that relationship [16:18]
ascii_butugychag it is my considered judgement that maintaining the illusion of 'we got it right the first time' is a pointless thing. [16:19]
phf ascii_butugychag: thanks! [16:24]
phf polarbeard: you can't press polarbeard_better_log_messages directly on top of asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected period. so the ~transition~ makes no sense [16:24]
phf there needs to be some patches in between [16:25]
polarbeard you can press the corresponding hunks, the graph is showing that [16:26]
ascii_butugychag ;;later tell mircea_popescu in what sense is adoptinc keccak a rejection of usg standards? it was actually adopted as sha3... [16:30]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:30]
ascii_butugychag *adopting [16:30]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87439 @ 0.00056085 = 49.0402 BTC [-] {2} [16:32]
ascii_butugychag oh, hm, adopted but mutilated ? [16:33]
ascii_butugychag << vintage lulz [16:34]
assbot LShift - Why I support the US Government making a cryptography standard weaker ... ( ) [16:35]
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ascii_butugychag ServerMode/#bitcoin-assets [+v ben_vulpes] by << wat?! [16:42]
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trinque !up ascii_butugychag [16:44]
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trinque jurov: I got it to squirt your txn earlier, after finding where my db lost track of the blockchain. site will update when btcd catches up, in roughly 90blks [16:45]
trinque still seeing something that knocks btcd into a stuck state [16:46]
trinque trb node is at 384k; I will be switching to that with anti-heathen command patch very soon [16:46]
trinque the same node was at 350k before I had the SSD installed, so we're gaining ground quickly. [16:47]
ascii_butugychag ;;later tell mircea_popescu your scheme (could call it... nodecoin?) finally clicked in my head. at last, an end to the cn pond scum !! [16:50]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21306 @ 0.00056683 = 12.0769 BTC [+] {3} [16:53]
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thestringpuller trinque: SSD speeds up block checking? I found I/O is very heavy with -verifyall [16:55]
trinque the SSD has *massively* sped up the process, which doesn't surprise me [16:56]
trinque and yeah, running with -verifyall [16:56]
thestringpuller yea. System is at like 70% disk load when verifying blocks on sync. [16:56]
thestringpuller Nuking the checkpoints is necessary tho. [16:57]
ascii_butugychag imho spinning rust is a losing proposition for any node. [16:57]
hdbuck hello [16:57]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: Not all of us are rich like you and can afford toys :P [16:57]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: l0l [16:57]
ascii_butugychag what, can't afford to pay 2009 price per TB ? [16:58]
thestringpuller When I get promoted to plutonimum mine from coal mine, maybe I'll buy SSDs. [16:58]
ascii_butugychag did you not own a disk in '09 ? [16:58]
trinque pff I'm paying 25/mo for a colo'd server with SSD [16:58]
trinque old amd box [16:58]
thestringpuller I upgrade computers slowly unless for vidya gamez. [16:58]
ascii_butugychag hey i'm running a machine circa '07 [16:58]
ascii_butugychag about to upgrade cpus for the 1st time, with.... circa-'09 ones [16:58]
thestringpuller My most powerful box runs i5 a 1.5 TB array. Best thing in the box is a 960 GTX [16:59]
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thestringpuller I've upgraded the GPU twice. [16:59]
thestringpuller Stuck an extra stick of RAM in it based on notion from friend during last upgrade. more of "here is extra stick I have lying around" "oh cool" [17:00]
hdbuck qntrable? >> Kaspersky / Interpol fun: [17:00]
assbot Kaspersky Lab researcher creates virus that can spread through the blockchain | Coinfox ... ( ) [17:00]
thestringpuller So no, I don't buy storage often. I usually try to buy enough for 5 years at a time. [17:00]
ascii_butugychag hdbuck: idiocy, beneath contempt [17:02]
hdbuck alright [17:02]
ascii_butugychag srsly think about it for 5 minutes. [17:02]
hdbuck just was quite amused by the latest Kaspersky Interpol Forbes combo virus [17:03]
ascii_butugychag so i put the string 'rm -rf /' in the blockchain, snore [17:03]
ascii_butugychag if your box pipes it to bash and executes, that is a problem with you, not 'blockchain' [17:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112328 @ 0.00056738 = 63.7327 BTC [+] {4} [17:04]
ascii_butugychag and if kaspersky really did sign off on this cheap p.t.barnumism, it really must be spent, for good. [17:05]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: Got into argument with netsec team leader at work. [17:05]
thestringpuller told him of cardano, and was like "well how are you going to trust cardano", to which I replied with the parable of soldier maintaining own AK-47 [17:06]
thestringpuller and for some reason didn't understand... [17:06]
ascii_butugychag next time try & have the argument with a literate man, who can grasp how, e.g., flashlight works [17:07]
ascii_butugychag having it with somebody who understands nothing of how his civilization is put together, to whom flashlight, pc, boeing, are equally magical - is a snore. [17:07]
thestringpuller yes, but these people get put in charge of sekuriteee and it makes me wonder "how?" [17:08]
thestringpuller "Do you not understand how a web of trust functions, or why?" [17:08]
thestringpuller Isn't this fundamental to achieving some sort of ~actual~ security? [17:09]
ascii_butugychag the trick here is that the proposition that you could actually understand a device that you own, is a hard sell to a great many folks [17:09]
thestringpuller those folks usually would accidentally drink rat poison if it was "accidentally" labeled wine [17:10]
thestringpuller since they don't like to read. [17:10]
ascii_butugychag and folks who cannot, or will not, attempt said understanding, will have to find themselves a priest, yes. [17:10]
thestringpuller trust the priest until he diddles your son during sunday school? [17:11]
ascii_butugychag aha. [17:11]
shinohai ^ [17:11]
ascii_butugychag let's put it this way, they have priests already, and the latter are spinning the flock on their cocks like propellers. [17:11]
ascii_butugychag and ~nobody seems to mind. [17:12]
thestringpuller reminds of allegory of the cave. if all you know is being priest cock, why would you think something else exist. [17:13]
thestringpuller being on* [17:13]
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shinohai !up ascii_butugychag [17:14]
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thestringpuller !up ascii_butugychag [17:14]
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thestringpuller the rule of thumb "fits in head" helps with the notion of owning device which when understood could "fit in head". [17:15]
thestringpuller problem arises when people can barely fit 3 bits in head before wandering off. [17:16]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41889 @ 0.00056892 = 23.8315 BTC [+] {2} [17:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129400 @ 0.00056893 = 73.6195 BTC [+] [17:21]
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BingoBoingo Why Reddit values Obese fee-fees [17:30]
adlai !v assbot:adlai.rate.psztorc.1:8fcb37e60bcff978a15dfbf1e566dc2508a68b74e12acec77bf899a37089e7cc [17:31]
assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for psztorc with note: [17:31]
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BingoBoingo !up trippysalmon [17:43]
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deedbot- [Qntra] Popescu Offers Condition For Accepting Future Hard Forks - [17:44]
BingoBoingo [17:44]
assbot Popescu Proposes Healing the Miner/Node division : Bitcoin ... ( ) [17:44]
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BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [17:52]
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ascii_butugychag BingoBoingo: ' pledging to sink any hard fork proposal without making these changes' --> ... 'that does not include these changes' ? [17:54]
BingoBoingo ascii_butugychag: ty, fxd [17:54]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00056893 = 32.2014 BTC [+] [17:55]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 131081 @ 0.00056878 = 74.5563 BTC [-] [18:04]
BingoBoingo !up schmidty [18:09]
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schmidty good to be here. still considering myself in purgatory given my lack of homework over the logs. i hope to some day join the ranks, still trying to frame it all up in my mind. [18:11]
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mats get a cloak. [18:13]
schmidty has anyone ever aggregated the viewpoints here into a sort of dogma or similar for the new followers? [18:13]
PeterL do we still have a ddosser on newbs/uncloaked? [18:14]
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BingoBoingo !up AaronvanW [18:14]
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thestringpuller /// [18:15]
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* jurov upgrading shit to win10, near the end it shows big banner "All your files are exactly where you left them". [18:17]
ascii_butugychag wai wat [18:17]
jurov O.o [18:17]
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mircea_popescu ahahah [18:18]
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mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag note that it's not my scheme not a coin nor anything. it's just a minimum bar. [18:18]
ascii_butugychag jurov watcha doin' with winblowz? [18:18]
jurov compiling eulora client? [18:18]
ascii_butugychag jurov: ah! [18:19]
PeterL schmidty there is the wiki, [18:19]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: i can see it. sorta 'shit test', anyone who proposes any fork which refuses it, has to answer for himself [18:19]
mircea_popescu schmidty the idea is that you're supposed to press your own dogma so to speak. [18:19]
mircea_popescu same way v works for bitcoin code [18:19]
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mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag exactly. a very minimal sort of thing. [18:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86100 @ 0.00056858 = 48.9547 BTC [-] {2} [18:21]
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PeterL !up schmidty [18:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00056893 = 36.6391 BTC [+] [18:23]
mircea_popescu << incredibly enough everyone thinks this is a really original and interesting idea. [18:23]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [18:23]
PeterL well, "everyone" being the people commenting on your blog [18:24]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [18:24]
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ascii_butugychag i must agree with the rando commenter, i have nfi why anybody would 'buy from nodes' [18:25]
PeterL people who want to do lightweight / trimmed blockchain would not like the proposal [18:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14000 @ 0.00056893 = 7.965 BTC [+] [18:25]
PeterL seems like it would be easier to run your own node for your minerfarm than to buy from other people? [18:27]
ascii_butugychag aha, seems like a 'let's rent out space inside my nose' situation [18:28]
ascii_butugychag (to borrow a mircea_popescuism) [18:28]
PeterL I guess instead of having one pool doing block hashing, you would have two pools connected, one doing the block hashing and one doing the bitmap hashing? [18:29]
PeterL pay-per-nonce? [18:31]
mircea_popescu PeterL there's a selection of different people there but ok. [18:31]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag then read my response :D [18:31]
mircea_popescu or just graph the demand curve for digests in units of time delta block finds in your head and see. [18:32]
PeterL so then people who have full nodes are the front half of the mining pool, and the back half remains about what it is now [18:32]
mircea_popescu PeterL nobody who wants a bitcoin-without-the-bitcoin thing would like that proposal. that's fundamentally why it's there, to readily distinguish people seeking to help from people seeking to help us hang ourselves. [18:33]
mircea_popescu anyway, the shifting decides that. if you make the shifting very low, mining as an activity seen today disappears altogether - the digest is much more expensive than the hashing. [18:34]
mircea_popescu so you'll just mine on server farms. [18:34]
PeterL is mining on server farms better than mining on asics? [18:35]
ascii_butugychag actually i must disagree with one point - general-purpose, e.g., x86, cpu, is full of so much crud that asicization is economical and quite inevitable [18:35]
mircea_popescu well... it is "closer to the origianl vision" at any rate. [18:35]
ascii_butugychag nobody needs that tlb cache [18:35]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag do you see the side benefit to this happening ? [18:36]
ascii_butugychag nobody needs the idiot 'acceleration' opcodes [18:36]
ascii_butugychag etc [18:36]
mircea_popescu "everything seems ripe for the picking to the man with a good pickaxe" [18:36]
* pete_dushenski ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:36]
* pete_dushenski has quit (Changing host) [18:36]
* pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:36]
ascii_butugychag just pointing out that 80-90% of an x86 die is there because winblowz, really [18:36]
ascii_butugychag and helps not at all in actual computation. [18:36]
mircea_popescu if that were to happen because we made it happen i'd be so happy. [18:36]
mircea_popescu what, finally can buy a sane cpu because bitcoin miners ? [18:37]
mircea_popescu yay bitcoin miners! [18:37]
* assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski [18:37]
ascii_butugychag nah it won't be sane [18:37]
ascii_butugychag it'll be like today's hash asic. [18:37]
ascii_butugychag just with nand flash bus. [18:37]
mircea_popescu step in right direction anyway. [18:37]
ascii_butugychag i don't see how [18:37]
mircea_popescu you don't see how it's a step or how it's the right direction ? [18:37]
ascii_butugychag other than the basic fact of it being a caltrop against folks who want to 'lose' the blockchain, i mean [18:37]
ascii_butugychag that part i get, and quite like [18:38]
ascii_butugychag but in re: silicon specifically [18:38]
mircea_popescu it will also be proof that in point of fact 80% of cpu could go away. [18:38]
mircea_popescu this is valuable. [18:38]
* soypirate has quit (Remote host closed the connection) [18:38]
ascii_butugychag wouldn't prove anything re: 'it could go away' in re: ~workstation~ [18:38]
mircea_popescu on that expertise, and more importantly on those suddenly opened eyes, more good stuff can be built. [18:38]
ascii_butugychag any more than today's dsp proves it [18:38]
mircea_popescu i believe differently. [18:38]
ascii_butugychag what was build on the opened eyes of sha256 hash asic ? [18:38]
ascii_butugychag *built [18:39]
mircea_popescu this. [18:39]
* mircea_popescu gestures around him. [18:39]
* ascii_butugychag doesn't see it [18:39]
mircea_popescu well... vision, what can i tell ya! [18:39]
ascii_butugychag interestingly, i fully expected, from 2010 on, folks to gnaw on the leather straps of sha256 [18:40]
ascii_butugychag !s satcoin [18:40]
* assbot gives voice to ben_vulpes [18:40]
assbot 14 results for 'satcoin' : [18:40]
ascii_butugychag pretty much ~didn't happen. [18:40]
* assbot gives voice to felipelalli [18:40]
pete_dushenski << heh. gotta love teh bitbet dramas. who knew a hockey bet would be such popular fodder for "debate" ? i guess the odd sports bet ain't so bad after all, though very few of them attract 10btc+ of action like this one. [18:40]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 14:32:39; BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski I believe [18:40]
mircea_popescu i bought 2 kgs of costa rican cofee. place now smells like the end of the fucking world. [18:40]
mircea_popescu i've never had coffee this good, and i lived in fucking costa rica! [18:40]
felipelalli how is a bitfield in the gpg key help you in case you die ? or lose control of the key ? neither of these are time-able events. << well, thank you. [18:40]
felipelalli deedbot- [18:41]
assbot ... ( ) [18:41]
deedbot- imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14 [18:41]
pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: britt ? [18:41]
mircea_popescu huh ? [18:42]
pete_dushenski [18:42]
assbot Cafe Britt Gourmet Coffee, Chocolates, Nuts and Cookies ... ( ) [18:42]
ascii_butugychag i know of no reason to suspect that anybody on the planet is mining with any method other than brute force. [18:42]
mircea_popescu ah no. [18:42]
ascii_butugychag which imho is surprising. [18:42]
ben_vulpes quality coffee in bsas? [18:42]
mircea_popescu it's a little place with no particular name down by the end of santa fe [18:42]
ascii_butugychag (but then again it is possible to hide the elephant) [18:42]
ben_vulpes goochness. [18:42]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes if you ever end up in here again ima buy you a pound of this stuff :D [18:42]
* ascii_butugychag salivates [18:42]
felipelalli ;;later tell felipelalli ^^^ also >> << Thank you danielpbarron - I was using in the wrong way. Now it works. [18:42]
assbot irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( ) [18:42]
mircea_popescu you too alfie [18:43]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: and imma drink it! if i ever come back. [18:43]
ben_vulpes at this rate the only time i'm going to come back is with a 5 yo and a 2 yo to escape election season [18:43]
mircea_popescu actually now that macri murdered their black market, maybe the borders open and i can mail you some or some shit. [18:43]
felipelalli deedbot- [18:43]
assbot ... ( ) [18:43]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [18:43]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: shall we try? anything you want from the states? [18:43]
danielpbarron felipelalli, ... I already did that for you! [18:43]
ascii_butugychag we got prime goatshit here [18:44]
ascii_butugychag what else we got [18:44]
felipelalli danielpbarron, thank you so much! [18:44]
danielpbarron (it doesn't matter who actually submits the deed, as long as it's blessed with WoT sig) [18:44]
danielpbarron now it's in there twice, but you're welcome [18:44]
felipelalli danielpbarron, nice!! :) [18:44]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes notrly, had lovage seeds courierred and that was the last thing. [18:44]
felipelalli danielpbarron, Daniel is a very common name in Brazil. Are you Brazilian? [18:44]
* assbot removes voice from AaronvanW [18:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91550 @ 0.00056925 = 52.1148 BTC [+] {4} [18:45]
danielpbarron lol, it's from the Bible.. it's common everywhere. and no I'm born and raised in Connecticut [18:45]
felipelalli danielpbarron, it makes sense! :D [18:45]
danielpbarron not really, my parents are atheists [18:45]
felipelalli But Felipe, for example, in some places are Philip, Filipe, Filippo etc. [18:45]
mircea_popescu Filip, even. [18:46]
felipelalli true! I saw Filipi already. [18:46]
pete_dushenski << but you said "in the us" where dollars don't mean things and "citizens" are africans who "make" xxx`xxx but leave no more than x`xxx to their children. (eg. so african africans pay $0.005/diaper and it's a wash. [18:47]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 14:34:29; mircea_popescu: << poverty limit. ask the world bank :D [18:47]
assbot Logged on 18-10-2015 16:37:35; asciilifeform: let's have a programmer, of some skill, no social net, no savings, pays 100K rent to make 120K in some godforsaken saltmine, in usa [18:47]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski i cheat. what else is new. [18:47]
pete_dushenski l0l [18:47]
pete_dushenski your proposal to increase block size pretty much seals this theory ;) [18:47]
deedbot- [Qntra] Shaun Bridges Arrested For Attempting To Flee United States - [18:48]
* TheRealJohnGalt_ (uid29986@gateway/web/ has joined #bitcoin-assets [18:48]
mircea_popescu did he go mexico ? [18:50]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Dunno that much yet, even though he was arrested last week word is just emerging this week. [18:50]
mircea_popescu heh. [18:50]
BingoBoingo Probably for reasons related to "trained experts" in german rapes [18:51]
mircea_popescu didn't give all the keys he promised ? [18:51]
mircea_popescu aha. [18:51]
BingoBoingo But spz. to prison on Friday, arrested Thursday so who knows what's actually happpening [18:51]
BingoBoingo If you want Pravda's narrative you can check "Wired" [18:52]
mircea_popescu its ok, im just going to read more of this guy's -printf +printf. [18:52]
mircea_popescu more exciting reading than wired at any rate. [18:53]
* assbot removes voice from schmidty [18:54]
BingoBoingo Anyways much more news today than late last month. 4 newses and a report in the first 22 hours of February. [18:55]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [18:55]
mircea_popescu << splendid! [18:55]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 19:06:38; phf: mircea_popescu: ^ [18:55]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [18:56]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [18:56]
mircea_popescu << it is quite splendid. [18:56]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 19:14:39; ascii_butugychag: phf: your viewer is mighty spiffy, it is exactly what i wanted to make in september (and never had time) [18:56]
ben_vulpes << aha, there we go [18:57]
assbot polarbeard_remove_shrink_debug_file ... ( ) [18:57]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes can you believe the deploy times of tmsr incidentally ? [18:57]
mircea_popescu shit just springs out overnight! [18:57]
mircea_popescu i have never witnessed anything like this before. if i were not-here i'd be pretty fucking scared. [18:57]
ascii_butugychag << apparently [18:57]
assbot Shaun Bridges Rearrest ... ( ) [18:57]
ben_vulpes well polarbeard likes to pretend as though i don't exist until he finally does what i ask, and even then refuses to ping me on the topic. [18:58]
ascii_butugychag 'During the execution that warrant, and based on facts that remain under seal before this Court, the government recovered the following items: two “pelican style” bags which contained: identity documents; a passport card in Bridges’ name; a notarized copy of Bridges’ passport; corporate records for at least 3 different offshore entities ranging from Nevis to Belize to Mauritius, i [18:58]
mircea_popescu did i miss some drama ? [18:58]
ascii_butugychag ncluding one that Bridges created on October 28, 2015 after he had pleaded guilty in this case; a Samsung cell phone; and a thumb drive. Also located in those bags were documents relating to his wife’s, Ariana Esposito’s, attempts to obtain citizenship in another country. Government agents also found a MacBook with the serial number scratched off, an ipad tucked between a bedroom mattr [18:58]
ben_vulpes but yeah phf's sprouting some lovely tooling [18:58]
ascii_butugychag ess, and bulletproof vests, at least one of which had Secret Service markings and thus is believed to have been stolen from the government. ' [18:58]
ascii_butugychag l0ltr0nic. [18:58]
BingoBoingo Coke Machine [18:59]
jurov phf what's i written in? [18:59]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag sounds more and more like it's a petraeus job. [18:59]
jurov *it [18:59]
mircea_popescu llleeeesp [18:59]
ben_vulpes le leeeesp [18:59]
ascii_butugychag speaking of petraeus jobs, same rag, [18:59]
mircea_popescu might also be the first time lisp was used for an actual purpose in its entire history [18:59]
assbot ... ( ) [18:59]
* mircea_popescu runs off in a serpentine fashion, head down [19:00]
ascii_butugychag tr0l0l0l [19:00]
* ben_vulpes throws pens, pencils, erasers at mircea_popescu's slithering ass [19:00]
ben_vulpes stoned to death by office supplies [19:00]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag he has the right method tho, you know ? what in beginner writer classes is called show, don't tell. [19:01]
ascii_butugychag aha [19:02]
* Guest36473 is now known as Chicago [19:02]
mircea_popescu in other news : mp decides new heels and dress would go very well with a shiny-red lacquered leather ball gag. proceeds to inquire with a dozen or so sex shops in the farming town. they ALL have the same exact item. [19:04]
mircea_popescu leaving aside they're trying to pass off a 70 cent chinese bit of crap for 20 bux in a poor country que no es un pais pobre : why the fuck bother to have a dozen shops then ?! [19:04]
* BingoBoingo wonders with this nuggest alf will show of lisp once he can find the right bolts to keep Shiva attached [19:04]
* BingoBoingo spz's that Shiva is probably the right place to get a less retarded wallet to talk to Bitcoin node. [19:06]
mircea_popescu quite so. [19:06]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: lemme guess, they're all on the same street too? [19:06]
mircea_popescu over about 30 blocks yes. [19:06]
ascii_butugychag BingoBoingo: when i weld on a working field arithmetic [19:06]
ascii_butugychag atm there is none. [19:06]
ascii_butugychag (this is the biggest point of divergence with r5rs standard, it ~demands~ it) [19:07]
mircea_popescu once you do that ima want shoup implemented just to have it nearby [19:07]
ascii_butugychag sure [19:07]
mircea_popescu ima do some shoup encoding on avenida cramer just for the fucks of it. [19:07]
BingoBoingo I suspect this will magically emerge as a surpise on some pseudorandom weekend [19:07]
ascii_butugychag incidentally all of this exists in sad pieces in the cellars of my sad tower [19:07]
mircea_popescu that isn't even flying, let alone dirigible. [19:08]
mircea_popescu alf built himself a house shaped like a boat and is now waiting! [19:08]
BingoBoingo Or a yurn in th pampas [19:08]
ascii_butugychag aha, it works mightily just to stand. [19:08]
mircea_popescu << at least it wasn;t fucking developed by teh nsa. [19:09]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 19:29:18; ascii_butugychag: ;;later tell mircea_popescu in what sense is adoptinc keccak a rejection of usg standards? it was actually adopted as sha3... [19:09]
mircea_popescu as far as we know. whatevs. minor point. [19:09]
ascii_butugychag btw between that thread and now i went and read the keccak spec [19:09]
ascii_butugychag it is mighty spiffy. [19:09]
ascii_butugychag accordionizes to size. [19:09]
mircea_popescu :) [19:10]
mircea_popescu i don't need to explain what i meant by not finite then ? [19:11]
ascii_butugychag aha. [19:11]
ascii_butugychag other hashes also accept infinite bits but they eat where they shit. [19:11]
mircea_popescu quite. [19:11]
mircea_popescu and mind that while in no means do i propose this is "Asic resistant", from a designer perspective you must appreciate i'm giving you a fun job to do. [19:12]
mircea_popescu at least therer's that. [19:12]
mircea_popescu always make sure everyone's having fun. [19:12]
ascii_butugychag quite! nobody will be plagiarizing old verilog from fpga docs to bake this one. [19:13]
ascii_butugychag very asian-resistant. [19:13]
ascii_butugychag which is a mega-plus. [19:13]
ben_vulpes whoa oakland terminal is filing for ch 11 [19:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82529 @ 0.00056816 = 46.8897 BTC [-] [19:14]
* Anduck has quit (Quit: leaving) [19:14]
mircea_popescu honestly the way i expect practical implementations to work (at least "originally") is, best effort sort of thing. [19:14]
mircea_popescu "we get the right hash 95% of the time!" [19:15]
* Anduck (~anduck@unaffiliated/anduck) has joined #bitcoin-assets [19:15]
mircea_popescu and throw an error about half the rest of the time! [19:15]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: actually it will be a massively-parallel sort of affair [19:15]
ascii_butugychag or did you already say this [19:15]
ascii_butugychag (rainbow table) [19:15]
mircea_popescu well yeah. [19:15]
ascii_butugychag incidentally, does this actually incentivize storing the blocks? or only the rainbow table! [19:16]
mircea_popescu doesn't matter, they're homomorphisms. [19:16]
ascii_butugychag not for the purpose of relay [19:16]
ascii_butugychag or am i missing something [19:17]
mircea_popescu that is true. [19:17]
BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: WHy is this surprizing. Oakland sucks and Oakland terminal has been struggling. [19:17]
mircea_popescu but you get what the tree grew, not what you want to eat! [19:17]
ascii_butugychag this here tree might be growin' old tyres [19:17]
mircea_popescu actually... take the rainbows, write them ACROSS the bitfield, got the blocks lol. [19:18]
mircea_popescu this is the amusing chinese-ness of this all. basically we're reading the other direction. [19:18]
mircea_popescu more than one person in china lolled when they saw it. [19:18]
ascii_butugychag almost cantor's diagonal flavour to it. [19:19]
mircea_popescu aha. [19:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172634 @ 0.00056755 = 97.9784 BTC [-] {4} [19:19]
mircea_popescu << ah come on this is rank nonsense. who executes blocks. [19:23]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 19:59:21; hdbuck: qntrable? >> Kaspersky / Interpol fun: [19:23]
mircea_popescu incidentally ascii_butugychag i had dc price 1tb ram. the guy... lifted an eyebrow. [19:24]
mircea_popescu about thirteen grand, and q2 delivery. [19:24]
mircea_popescu but yes, that'd be one spiffy node. [19:25]
BingoBoingo [19:25]
assbot ... ( ) [19:25]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: actually i would be only slightly surprised if prb could be persuaded to jmp into a block. [19:26]
felipelalli danielpbarron, I can't find my deed in - do you know why? [19:26]
BingoBoingo from [19:26]
ascii_butugychag or even a tx. [19:26]
assbot ... ( ) [19:26]
trinque felipelalli: yes, he got shot in the head again and is catching back up, is at 396128 [19:26]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag seeing how there's memory leaks... not a bad bet. [19:26]
trinque felipelalli: I thought the cause was something to do with your deed earlier, deleted it, now jurov's has gone through, and yours is next [19:26]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [19:26]
hdbuck mircea_popescu yes, sry, ps: gmax actually adressed your recent blogpost : [19:27]
assbot gmaxwell: The thing that proposal wants to do has been discussed by others many - ... ( ) [19:27]
felipelalli trinque, lol! I think I have killed deedbot- many times unintentionally. [19:27]
mircea_popescu hdbuck apparently it's the talk of the town, yeah. [19:28]
trinque felipelalli: that is a good thing; this present round of woes shall be rememdied in a few days, I think. trb node shall have reached the top. It's at about 385k right now [19:28]
felipelalli trinque, nice! [19:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102250 @ 0.00056955 = 58.2365 BTC [+] {2} [19:36]
BingoBoingo [19:39]
assbot Paul Sztorc on Twitter: "It seems that [Mircea Popescu] has internalized Bitcoin's full node externality. Initial reaction: "Wow."" : Bitcoin ... ( ) [19:39]
pete_dushenski hehe [19:42]
pete_dushenski kids finally starting to name names [19:43]
pete_dushenski rather than just "oh some small block zealots are afraid of progress" such and such [19:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86300 @ 0.00056969 = 49.1642 BTC [+] {3} [19:44]
pete_dushenski << ok this is super cool. nicely done phf! [19:51]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 19:06:34; phf: ok, so [19:51]
pete_dushenski << any merit to these 'hybrid' drives ? or just ssd or bust. [19:55]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 19:56:14; ascii_butugychag: imho spinning rust is a losing proposition for any node. [19:55]
* hdbuck has quit (Quit: hdbuck) [19:55]
pete_dushenski !up ascii_butugychag [19:56]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [19:56]
ascii_butugychag pete_dushenski: the hybrid thing seems like the worst of both worlds [19:57]
jurov pete_dushenski: gigabytes of RAM alleviate the problem, but only if it's not too far behind [19:57]
jurov so I imageine it's the same with hybrids [19:57]
mircea_popescu hybrids are one of those "maybe when it grows up" techs. [19:58]
pete_dushenski aha. good to know as i'm on the hunt for a new node hard drive and, given this, might as well spring for ssd. [19:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65951 @ 0.00056022 = 36.9471 BTC [-] {3} [19:59]
pete_dushenski any ssd brands to avoid ? [19:59]
BingoBoingo [20:00]
assbot Zotamedu comments on Bitcoin core will soon replace the industry standard random number generator with a homebrew script. Sorry for your loss (of entropy) ... ( ) [20:00]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Avoid SSD's which seem inexpensve for their capacity [20:00]
BingoBoingo SSD market pretty much consists on Samsung, Intel, and other firms that just use surplus parts from samsung [20:01]
jurov "Comming soon, custom memory allocator!" :B [20:01]
ascii_butugychag hybrid is guaranteed not to help a node. [20:02]
ascii_butugychag because node is a random access affair. [20:02]
ascii_butugychag the ~locality~ is small. [20:02]
jurov i disagree [20:02]
pete_dushenski ok. now any idea why ssd's are all 2.5" ? [20:02]
ascii_butugychag not so [20:02]
ascii_butugychag plenty of 'msata' etc [20:02]
jurov after syncing i have moved older half of blockXXX.dat on spinning rust and it did not access them very often [20:03]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60312 @ 0.00056976 = 34.3634 BTC [+] {2} [20:03]
pete_dushenski ascii_butugychag: mkay. i just need to dig more then [20:03]
ascii_butugychag and if pete_dushenski is really asking why there are no 3.5" ones, it is for same reason as why not 5.25 [20:03]
ascii_butugychag because wtf [20:03]
ascii_butugychag jurov: that was because ~nobody is actually setting up new nodes [20:04]
ascii_butugychag or moving old coin [20:04]
jurov but feeding new nodes is not random-access affair. spending old coin, now that's something else [20:04]
jurov but if it was not spent often so far, i hardly expect that to change [20:05]
* ascii_butugychag still thinks that blockchain mask rom ought to be a product [20:05]
ascii_butugychag why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. [20:06]
ascii_butugychag mask rom is approximately indestructible, costs precious little to make, uses minimal current, etc [20:06]
jurov so? burn the old half to bd-r. checkbox marked. [20:06]
ascii_butugychag slow [20:06]
ascii_butugychag and now you're ddosable. [20:06]
ascii_butugychag (when it becomes known that asking for old blocks makes you spin a motor) [20:07]
jurov ha! let the enemy start moving his precious pre-2011 coinz [20:07]
ascii_butugychag he doesn't need to actually move'em [20:07]
ascii_butugychag just pretend to [20:07]
ascii_butugychag you ~will~ have to load the blocks [20:07]
ascii_butugychag (to see that his tx is invalid) [20:07]
jurov that will be stopped by index which stays on ssd [20:08]
ascii_butugychag how does this help ? [20:08]
ascii_butugychag index just ends up telling you to fetch the ancient block. [20:08]
ascii_butugychag bitcoin as presently conceived requires random access. [20:09]
* TheRealJohnGalt has quit (Quit: TheRealJohnGalt_ is here) [20:09]
jurov ok. anyway, should be not hard to have a bit in the index saying tx has all otutputs spent with 1000... confirmations [20:10]
* ascii_butugychag bbl [20:12]
* ascii_butugychag has quit (Quit: leaving) [20:12]
jurov (but yes that's HARD, i believe electrum does this and it makes full sync almost impractical even on ssd) [20:12]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag> why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. <<< ironically, cheaper to save on hdd than on the mask rom. yet. [20:18]
mircea_popescu but yes, this is a point. [20:18]
mircea_popescu especially seeing that glass storage thing i read about. [20:18]
* felipelalli has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) [20:20]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51650 @ 0.00056012 = 28.9302 BTC [-] {3} [20:21]
BingoBoingo ok. now any idea why ssd's are all 2.5" ? << You know these things work in 3.5" and even 5.25" bays... Even work with same cables. [20:23]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: mhm. can use mounting bracket too if you don't feel like taping it on. i guess the 2.5" size meets the 90% of buyers using it for laptops and the 10% of buyers using it for desktops aren't excluded either. [20:25]
BingoBoingo Many of them will include the bracket in the retail box [20:25]
* pete_dushenski is a hdd/sdd buying noob [20:25]
* danielpbarron too [20:26]
danielpbarron and this line of questioning interests me; i've been meaning to get one of those things too [20:26]
danielpbarron or more than one; does it make sense to make a raid? and for that matter what's the right thing to buy for that? [20:26]
danielpbarron i've got this nice beefy workstation but i'm still using my 10 year old hard drives [20:27]
BingoBoingo Kinda makes sense to do raid 1 for redundancy and faster reads [20:27]
mircea_popescu depends what you wanna do. raid 1 works well for security ; raid 0 for speed [20:27]
danielpbarron i mean hardware controller; i think i recall reading asciilifeform saying hardware is only way to raid [20:28]
gernika I have raid 1 (hardware) going with 2 ssds [20:28]
danielpbarron [20:29]
assbot Logged on 26-01-2016 19:24:59; ascii_butugychag: (as far as i'm concerned, there is ONE manufacturer of raid cards) [20:29]
gernika 3ware [20:29]
gernika 9560SE-4LPML [20:30]
BingoBoingo Anyways my take on the SSD market is the stuff Samsung is willing to brand as theirs is the safest in a longevity way. Who the fuck knows which is least likely to have evil baked in. [20:30]
BingoBoingo As alf graciously contributed [20:33]
assbot Your Disk Controller and You | Qntra ... ( ) [20:33]
pete_dushenski curious if asciilifeform is buying sandisk, samsung, intel(!), amd, or other ssd atm. [20:33]
pete_dushenski so far it looks like the sandisk 'extreme pro' is the best bang for the buck in the 480-500gb segment. though all are free to point me to something better! [20:35]
pete_dushenski bbl [20:37]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Sandisk, AMD, etc is all Samsung parts [20:39]
BingoBoingo Or was last I checked. [20:39]
BingoBoingo Intel for a while did their own thing, but I am unsure if they still do. [20:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 240616 @ 0.00055963 = 134.6559 BTC [-] {5} [20:39]
* kakobrekla sent numerous 'go fuck yourself' letters to sandisk for their policies with usb drives and will never buy their shit again [20:39]
gernika BingoBoingo: how about Micron? [20:41]
BingoBoingo gernika: I don't know about them and SSD's. [20:41]
jurov in related news, the "kingdian" shit survived several rewrites already [20:42]
BingoBoingo sweet [20:43]
jurov i wonder if many-MLC SSD is fullfilling alf's dreams of ROM :D [20:43]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36100 @ 0.00055836 = 20.1568 BTC [-] {2} [20:48]
fluffypony sorry mircea_popescu, your secret is out [20:54]
fluffypony [01:29:21] he seems quite certain of himself and even writes that he refuses to accept it wont work [20:54]
fluffypony [01:29:45] in his universe, his words are absolute - its quite funny to read [20:54]
fluffypony [01:51:12] JackH: He does that on purpose, to manipulate the type of people who choose to read his blog. [20:54]
fluffypony [01:51:34] The secret is that he isn't arrogant at all -- only pretending. [20:54]
mircea_popescu huh ? [20:54]
mircea_popescu o.O [20:55]
mircea_popescu lies, all lies. [20:55]
fluffypony no you're only pretending, now we know the truth [20:55]
mircea_popescu stop saying rumpelskiltstin. [20:55]
fluffypony :-P [20:55]
mircea_popescu IT WONT DO YOU ANY GOOD [20:56]
mircea_popescu if i read one more fucking printf statement i'm going to start murdering people again. bbl. [20:56]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu begins to feel the burn! [20:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109763 @ 0.00056264 = 61.7571 BTC [+] {3} [21:01]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53750 @ 0.00056419 = 30.3252 BTC [+] {2} [21:14]
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BingoBoingo !up t [21:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.0005642 = 3.357 BTC [+] [21:26]
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pete_dushenski << interesting. [21:34]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 23:38:18; BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Sandisk, AMD, etc is all Samsung parts [21:34]
pete_dushenski << what's sandisk's usb policy ? [21:34]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 23:39:03; *: kakobrekla sent numerous 'go fuck yourself' letters to sandisk for their policies with usb drives and will never buy their shit again [21:34]
BingoBoingo Now that gernika brought it up, apparently Micron also makes nand and SSD's [21:34]
pete_dushenski << apparently boeing doesn't have enough 'mass market' engineering to do these days so is contributing their engineering expertise to... golf clubs. callaway drivers in particular. [21:36]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 20:06:49; ascii_butugychag: having it with somebody who understands nothing of how his civilization is put together, to whom flashlight, pc, boeing, are equally magical - is a snore. [21:36]
pete_dushenski not like aerodynamic performance matters in the slightest when you're joe average swinging his driver at 75 mph, but hey mr. tourstar who swings at 110+ mph notices a difference, however marginal, and that's good enough for joe ! [21:41]
asciilifeform << a) only because 'economy of scale' b) hdd total cost of ownership IF YOU NEED 100% uptime is quite high [21:45]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 23:17:36; mircea_popescu: ascii_butugychag> why the fuck provision for rewriting bits that will ~never~ be rewritten. <<< ironically, cheaper to save on hdd than on the mask rom. yet. [21:45]
asciilifeform << i buy iron brackets for'em, cheap [21:45]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 23:24:07; pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: mhm. can use mounting bracket too if you don't feel like taping it on. i guess the 2.5" size meets the 90% of buyers using it for laptops and the 10% of buyers using it for desktops aren't excluded either. [21:45]
asciilifeform << bunch of'em, no intels [21:46]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 23:32:54; pete_dushenski: curious if asciilifeform is buying sandisk, samsung, intel(!), amd, or other ssd atm. [21:46]
asciilifeform but see also the raid thread [21:46]
asciilifeform << [21:46]
assbot Logged on 26-01-2016 19:40:17; ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i like raid5, among other reasons, because it makes life very painful for boobytrapped hdd supplier [21:46]
pete_dushenski asciilifeform: will reread. cheers. [21:46]
pete_dushenski "So that is a long way of saying that Callaway has reshaped the Speed Step on the crown of the XR 16 driver, but at least you now know that a whole lot of thought and time has gone into it from the best brains from two of the top aerodynamic engineering companies around. The result is the XR 16 driver that has a 30% lower head drag and a 10% lower face drag than the original XR driver." [21:50]
pete_dushenski imagesblogs/callaway/xr16/reviewdriverwave.jpg << ok that's actually notbad… [21:50]
assbot > Page Not Found ... ( ) [21:50]
pete_dushenski [21:51]
assbot ... ( ) [21:51]
* assbot removes voice from t [21:51]
asciilifeform pete_dushenski plays? [21:51]
pete_dushenski well even ! [21:51]
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asciilifeform neato [21:52]
pete_dushenski the number of sports where one isn't saddled with other idjits (and their trivial hierarchies) are few and far between. thus i grew up doing swimming, golf, badminton, tennis, running, yoga, etc. [21:52]
asciilifeform where i live, it is an 'old man game' [21:53]
pete_dushenski it's quite popular here with all ages. my theory is that it has a similar swing plane to hockey, which is the ~most~ popular, and works well as a seasonal alternate. [21:54]
pete_dushenski though most take it up in their 20s and 30s because they're a) bored and need the frustration, and b) need to play for 'business' reasons on account of many alrger firms having annual tournaments. [21:55]
pete_dushenski larger* [21:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86900 @ 0.0005583 = 48.5163 BTC [-] {5} [21:56]
pete_dushenski i started around 13yo, peaked in '09 when i won the club championship at one of the two most competitive private clubs in town. only play two, maybe three times a year now as i find it a bit abusive to swing that hard now and can think of a several books i'd rather read with 6 hours of continuous time. [21:58]
pete_dushenski coincidentally, my golf equipment is almost exactly the same vintage as my computing equipment and i similarly see no benefit to upgrading either. [21:59]
mircea_popescu lol. [21:59]
BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Just wait until you need an orthopedic computer [22:00]
pete_dushenski though i suppose the golf ball is the equivalent of the hdd/sdd - it breaks, you "lose" it, and does actually need to be replaced eventually. [22:01]
pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: what do you think i'm using now ? [22:02]
BingoBoingo One that's not as orthotic as you'll need after pantagruel spends a decade using you as a thing to climb on [22:03]
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pete_dushenski i tremble at the thought... [22:05]
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pete_dushenski holy shit is chopin the worst fucking composer to listen to when trying to read or write. what an obnoxious fucking twat! [22:05]
pete_dushenski BANGBANGCLASHBANGBANG. all goddam day. [22:06]
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pete_dushenski i'm sure his pieces would make for excellent theatre, but they make the worst study partner. [22:06]
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pete_dushenski << one for BingoBoingo [22:09]
assbot ConBody ... ( ) [22:09]
pete_dushenski "The story behind the workout is almost as good as the workout itself: Coss Marte developed a unique and effective exercise program without the need for any equipment while doing his time. and now he helps you to do yours." [22:10]
asciilifeform lifting other prisoners ? [22:10]
asciilifeform (traditional) [22:10]
pete_dushenski "While serving a sentence in his 9’x6′ prison cell, Coss lost 70+ lbs. in just six months. From that experience, Coss refined a unique fitness program combining fun cardiovascular, aerobic, and running exercises and now he has brought this exercise program back to New York City." [22:10]
pete_dushenski back ?! [22:11]
pete_dushenski back to alcatraz, sure, but nyc ? [22:11]
pete_dushenski in other news, this lead-in made me loller >> "At the University of Kentucky, taco knowledge is power." [22:13]
pete_dushenski [22:14]
assbot You Can Now Study Tacos at the University of Kentucky | MUNCHIES ... ( ) [22:14]
pete_dushenski "This semester, the university is offering an undergraduate course called “Taco Literacy: Public Advocacy and Mexican Food in the US South.” Led by Steven Alvarez, an assistant professor in the university’s Writing, Rhetoric, and Digital Studies department, the class aims to teach students about Mexican foodways in Kentucky and the broader South." [22:14]
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mod6 <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes mod6 if teh esteemed foundation'd give an opinion on kthx. << I'm reading through the post, must grok. [22:16]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [22:16]
mircea_popescu mod6 take your time! [22:16]
mod6 *cough*3rd time*cough* [22:16]
mod6 there is some good Q&A in the comments. [22:16]
mircea_popescu yeah it's kinda rare for trilema comments to take off these days. [22:17]
asciilifeform btw i realized that mircea_popescu might single-handedly cause delay-line memory to come back. [22:17]
mircea_popescu but i thought you foamingly hated it!!1 [22:17]
asciilifeform l0l wut [22:18]
mircea_popescu when the post showed up. [22:18]
mircea_popescu but no, it's really not fair - i spring stuff like this on people that's been many months in the building and then what, they gotta have an instareaction ? [22:18]
mircea_popescu i cheat. [22:18]
asciilifeform not so much hated, as didn't see the win [22:18]
asciilifeform but think about, if you had the blocks circulating in a light pipe, the nonce operation is... O(1) [22:19]
asciilifeform just shift the phase. [22:19]
mircea_popescu yes. [22:20]
mircea_popescu think about it lol. it didn't just fall from the sky, it's a construct! [22:20]
* pete_dushenski to dinner [22:21]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00056306 = 20.5235 BTC [+] {2} [22:24]
jurov [22:25]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [22:25]
jurov ^to work as intended, the nonce must depend on included transactions in mined block, too [22:26]
jurov imo designing something that forces miner to have fast random access to all whole blocks is a cryptographical challenge [22:30]
asciilifeform << lulzy [22:30]
assbot Shaun Bridges Arrested For Attempting To Flee United States | Qntra ... ( ) [22:30]
asciilifeform quoted for the logz: [22:32]
asciilifeform 'From the court filing for his recent arrest it looks like this was a fairly clever trap set for Bridges. There's a reference in the last paragraph of the filing to a still-sealed warrant for Bridges' arrest. Apparently they got this sealed warrant issued BEFORE they released him, then let him out for the occasionally-offered "time to tidy up your affairs" post-sentencing/pre-incarceration. This isn't too unusual, but ONLY for [22:32]
asciilifeform convicts with near-zero flight risk. So it's very very strange they offered this to Bridges, and he's an idiot for not wondering WTF was up. Anyways, looks like he fell into the trap. Now they've got him back as well as all the goodies in his "go bag". I'm guessing that "go bag" was the point of the whole excercise.' [22:32]
mod6 asciilifeform: cool with you if i send those re-worked patches to the ML? [22:34]
asciilifeform mod6: sure why not [22:35]
mod6 well, they're your things! [22:35]
asciilifeform mod6: they wanted to live in ml [22:35]
asciilifeform and do me a favour and say what'll need to get reground [22:35]
mod6 ahhhhhhh [22:36]
mod6 now we get to it. [22:36]
mod6 so even though I was able to press out shiva, et. al.; it might be worthwhile to make a list of which patches need to be included to make it work. [22:37]
asciilifeform there were precisely 2 [22:37]
mod6 i think there is some confusion there. as you saw in the logs. [22:37]
asciilifeform 3, rather [22:37]
asciilifeform << these [22:37]
assbot [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Introducing: Shiva. ... ( ) [22:37]
asciilifeform and << fix [22:38]
assbot [BTC-dev] Shiva bug fix. ... ( ) [22:38]
asciilifeform and, for anybody who missed it the first two times, [22:38]
asciilifeform !!! >>>> <<<< !!! [22:38]
assbot Logged on 01-02-2016 05:13:50; asciilifeform: tinyscheme genesis is NOT PART OF TRB !!1111111111111 [22:38]
mod6 so shiva part 1 & part 2 + shiva fix. [22:39]
asciilifeform aha. [22:39]
mircea_popescu jurov answered. [22:39]
asciilifeform btw this is the kind of question a working vtron oughta answer in <1sec [22:39]
mircea_popescu and on this specific topic - i'd prefer if all discussion happens there. it'll become impossible to track if we just do the usual layered cake. [22:40]
mod6 i kindof agree. [22:40]
adlai mircea_popescu: apologies for retardation, i may have just posted my comment twice [22:40]
mircea_popescu 'From the court filing for his recent arrest it looks like this was a fairly clever trap set for Bridges. <<< heh. [22:41]
mircea_popescu adlai i dun think it lets you do that really. [22:41]
mod6 I, jurov, am hereby submitting the treasurer's reward in full as my [22:42]
mod6 tax payment to the Foundation. [22:42]
mod6 Thanks! [22:42]
* adlai waits for the day when usg stagehands and muppeteers donate their entire income to the IRS (saves on paperwork!) [22:44]
jurov ben_vulpes do you intend to maintain *all* its unittests break from several causes [22:45]
jurov like alf's expired key you bundled in [22:46]
mircea_popescu adlai well, buffett donated his secretary's. that count ? [22:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5050 @ 0.00055706 = 2.8132 BTC [-] {2} [22:56]
mod6 i thought ben_vulpes made a lisp deal? [23:00]
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jurov [23:02]
assbot [BTC-dev] V. (ver. 99K) ... ( ) [23:02]
mod6 oh aight [23:02]
jurov generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out? [23:03]
jurov *v should [23:04]
mod6 it should do what these guys were talking about before, just press up to level where key you trust has signed. [23:04]
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mod6 so if i get hit by a bus, and alf has signed all the patches, then you're ok as long as you trust alfie. or vice versa. [23:05]
jurov what about genesis? [23:05]
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mod6 well, you press out genesis if you trust at least one person who has signed it. [23:06]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34600 @ 0.00055706 = 19.2743 BTC [-] {2} [23:07]
mircea_popescu jurov> generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out? << holy shit! [23:07]
mod6 which currently stands at 4 lords at this point [23:08]
mod6 genesis.vpatch (asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, mod6, trinque) [23:08]
jurov ok i get it, it's using other people sigs [23:08]
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mircea_popescu mod6 vaguely unrelated points. the owner's death guarantees a key with an expiration date will expire ; it also guarantees the trust for it needn't ever be updated - dead men tell no lies. [23:09]
mircea_popescu consequently the expiration date makes no sense whatsoever. [23:09]
mircea_popescu take chetty's key. if it expires tomorrow, what does that change exactly ? [23:09]
mod6 nada. [23:09]
mircea_popescu so basically key expiration as a concept is broken, in that it induces a wrinkle between phenomena and representation. [23:10]
mod6 in the case of v, if she had created a patch, and she was the only one who signed it and her key expired tomorrow, well, someone better grok it and sign it who's in the current lordship [23:10]
mircea_popescu or else simply ignore key expirations forever. [23:10]
mod6 ya [23:10]
mircea_popescu jesus' key also expired. [23:10]
mod6 i didn't know he was a crypto guy [23:11]
mod6 :D [23:11]
mircea_popescu technically, as per catholic doctrine, jesus must have been a crypto guy. [23:11]
mod6 the history you don't know... or how does it go? [23:12]
mircea_popescu lol [23:12]
jurov that's not catholic doctrine [23:12]
mircea_popescu jurov hm ? [23:12]
jurov catholic is that truth is what living Pope signs. [23:13]
mircea_popescu because peter, because jesus. [23:13]
mircea_popescu there's a filiation there. [23:13]
jurov and there were two popes and whatnot [23:13]
mircea_popescu not as per doctrine :) [23:13]
mircea_popescu that is lay history! [23:14]
mircea_popescu anyway, throwaway point, lettuce move on. [23:14]
jurov i just happened to stumble upon it cuz vulpes' test data has only one - alf's signature per patch [23:15]
mod6 you know, im pretty sure that my v ignores expired keys. [23:16]
jurov guess i should stop wasting time with it and approach v from completely other direction [23:16]
mod6 try it out, grab v99996, grab alfs expired key and drop it in your .wot [23:16]
mod6 see what happens. [23:16]
jurov tomorrow. [23:18]
mod6 whenever is cool. :] [23:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165200 @ 0.00056477 = 93.3 BTC [+] {4} [23:31]
mod6 ok so pressed out shiva with V -- used what is currently in the mirror (including alfs PVS) + what is stated above: shiva 1 & 2 + shiva fix, compiles and works: [23:37]
mod6 #>(btc-get-best-height) [23:37]
mod6 396226 [23:37]
mod6 that's for ben [23:37]
mod6 [23:38]
assbot ... ( ) [23:38]
mod6 be back in a few to sort out the patches that need re-grind after I submit the integrated programmable-version-strings vpatch and the reground mikehearn one [23:38]
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mod6 actually, i think we're ok here because the only parts that changed in the new patches are main.cpp and serialize.h [23:57]
mod6 lemme compile & test with the new patches + shiva 1 & 2 + fix [23:58]
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