Forum logs for 02 Feb 2016

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15010 @ 0.00055706 = 8.3615 BTC [-] {2} [00:01]
mod6 ok ~compiled~ [00:03]
mod6 Bitcoin version << good [00:04]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: it is a very interesting proposal. [00:11]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53222 @ 0.00055706 = 29.6478 BTC [-] {2} [00:12]
mod6 ok looking good - asciilifeform, check it out: [00:14]
assbot ... ( ) [00:14]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66800 @ 0.00055706 = 37.2116 BTC [-] [00:16]
ben_vulpes is this the sort of thing that *must* be implemented as a fork of the existing chain? [00:17]
* ben_vulpes not terrifically intimate with fork dynamics in practice, having flatly ignored proposals to do so until now [00:17]
* ben_vulpes now actually very curious as to how this sort of thing would work at the code level in practice. if blockheight < forkheight, use old validation rules, else use new? [00:19]
adlai ben_vulpes: did you see my comment? this could be implemented today by miners already and you wouldn't have known of it [00:20]
* danielpbarron recalls Mircea saying something like "if you're gonna fork, might as well start with new genesis block" [00:20]
ben_vulpes i do not think i've gotten to your comment yet adlai. on trilema? [00:20]
adlai ben_vulpes: [00:21]
assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [00:21]
danielpbarron !s fork genesis [00:22]
assbot 5 results for 'fork genesis' : [00:22]
ben_vulpes aha [00:22]
danielpbarron ^ there you go :) [00:22]
ben_vulpes i believe that i understand how it could be implemented softly, adlai, but it doesn't /count/ until it's verified. [00:22]
adlai correct, same as how extension block (adam back's original name for what morphed into the "segwit softfork") payments don't /count/ until you withdraw them to cold, hard, bitcoin [00:23]
ben_vulpes yeah i never followed that stupidity in depth [00:25]
ben_vulpes jurov: i committed violence to asciilifeform's original v in a harebrained attempt to add tests, was roundly caned for the violence, left his implementation to him and hared off to reimplement in cl. [00:26]
adlai ben_vulpes: fwiw i still believe it's a bad idea to discourage this kind of "speculative soft fork"... it makes it easier for experimenters to put their money where their mouth is, and puts on a good show for "conservatives" who remain in plain good old Bitcoin [00:28]
ben_vulpes adlai: sure! [00:30]
* adlai personally will be slightly amused if LN goes live on SegwitCoin, and sees zero volume because nobody who spends btc actually needs micropayments [00:31]
adlai (there'd go all the talk about capacity cliffs...) [00:32]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes made for some interesting discussion at any rate. [00:32]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34500 @ 0.00055704 = 19.2179 BTC [-] {3} [00:33]
mircea_popescu adlai this fear is part of why ln bla bla stays vaporware. [00:41]
mircea_popescu but that aside, should they somehow find the money/mit to pull an ethereum : spam is easy and cheap. [00:42]
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adlai part of the just beauty is that spamming extension blocks is cheaper than spamming Bitcoin [00:46]
adlai so along with a fee market, we also get a spam market [00:47]
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asciilifeform << neato mod6 [00:54]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 03:13:21; mod6: ok looking good - asciilifeform, check it out: [00:54]
asciilifeform << lulzy [00:55]
assbot Popescu Offers Condition For Accepting Future Hard Forks | Qntra ... ( ) [00:55]
asciilifeform << perhaps i ought to explain, i use the expiration feature so that my key can get garbagecollected out of heathendom when i finally transition to new one, instead of working as a honeypot for hitler [00:58]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 02:03:04; jurov: generally, wot should ignore expiration dates. like, if alf dies, we're going to throw everything out? [00:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66617 @ 0.00055689 = 37.0983 BTC [-] {2} [01:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 143771 @ 0.00055557 = 79.8749 BTC [-] {4} [01:13]
BingoBoingo Our Nigerian prince appears to be back [01:16]
mircea_popescu which one of you is gbanga after all ? [01:24]
mircea_popescu also BingoBoingo maybe redirect the fellow to trilema comments where the matter of "jiggling the merkle tree" is well set to rest. [01:24]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61696 @ 0.00056231 = 34.6923 BTC [+] {4} [01:25]
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BingoBoingo done [01:28]
assbot Popescu Offers Condition For Accepting Future Hard Forks | Qntra ... ( ) [01:28]
mircea_popescu kinda lulzy how this got all the self-important know-nothings off their ass and flailing wildly. [01:32]
mircea_popescu << check out this derp. [01:33]
assbot nullc comments on Paul Sztorc on Twitter: "It seems that [Mircea Popescu] has internalized Bitcoin's full node externality. Initial reaction: "Wow."" ... ( ) [01:33]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24750 @ 0.00056569 = 14.0008 BTC [+] [01:40]
mircea_popescu polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ? [01:42]
mircea_popescu + return error(SBLK "block loading from disk failed"); << this soulds like SERR and so does + printf(SWAR SBLK "found bad block %s at height %d
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mircea_popescu + printf(SWAR SWAL "repairing tx version %d
", wtx.fTimeReceivedIsTxTime); << any reason this lost the hash ?
mircea_popescu - printf("

"); ahahaha holy shit already.

mircea_popescu i had forgotten that was in there. suddenly got flashbacks of ancient debug.log layout. [01:47]
mircea_popescu + printf(SINF SBLK "loading block index
"); << this should show the nStart value ; so should all these timed items. like + printf(SINF SADR "loading addresses
adlai mircea_popescu: biggest derpitude is that we're discussing on irc a reddit conversation about a tweet linking to a blog [01:49]
mircea_popescu well what can you do, when the "real cryptographers" are involved, you're stuck. [01:49]
mircea_popescu i wonder if this is a step up or a step down from power ranger. [01:49]
adlai ;;later tell ben_vulpes see what happens when commenters can't find the comment box! [01:49]
gribble The operation succeeded. [01:49]
mircea_popescu ;;google victor victoria [01:50]
gribble Victor Victoria (1982) - IMDb: ; Victor Victoria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Victor/Victoria (musical) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: [01:50]
mircea_popescu "a man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be..." [01:50]
danielpbarron that Paul Sztorc guy is in Connecticut [01:51]
danielpbarron real close to me [01:51]
mircea_popescu small world eh. [01:53]
mircea_popescu + return error(SBLK "block %s doesn't match index", GetHash().ToString().c_str()); << it really doesn't work if you don't use the flags! [01:55]
mircea_popescu + return error(SBLK "pow %s work below minimum (%u)", hash.ToString().c_str(), nBits); << bunches of these. [01:55]
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mircea_popescu + strError += strprintf("tx requires a tx fee of at" << this is logging exempt ? [02:02]
thestringpuller printf is da best way to debug! [02:04]
mircea_popescu so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart). [02:08]
mircea_popescu as annoying as b c etc might be they're mostly minor and could be fixed by a further patch. a however is a killer, and colors both b and c in similar tones, because it betrays the fundamental problem with this patch : it doesn't flow from a structured approach given in depth consideration, but merely from your desire to help and impressive stamina. [02:08]
mircea_popescu these are both very nice things, and the good news is that it's much easier for you to become very useful than it is for alf to grow another arm. so don't take this as a censure per se. does all that make sense ? [02:08]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64400 @ 0.00055607 = 35.8109 BTC [-] {5} [02:21]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61585 @ 0.00056669 = 34.8996 BTC [+] {4} [02:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98172 @ 0.00056706 = 55.6694 BTC [+] {2} [02:24]
BingoBoingo In derplandia: Cruz 28% Trump 24% Rubio 23% [02:24]
mircea_popescu o.O [02:25]
mircea_popescu no way, someone is ahead of trump ?! [02:25]
mircea_popescu how did that happen [02:25]
BingoBoingo Or in the numbers that matter: Convention Delegates > 6 to Cruz 5 each to Trump and Rubio, one to Carson [02:25]
BingoBoingo Blizzard in Iowa today [02:26]
BingoBoingo Trump lost to Bible belt guy and tied Establishment guy [02:26]
mircea_popescu weird. [02:26]
BingoBoingo Trump was always just Manistream media noise and some derps online [02:27]
BingoBoingo But Blizzard keeping Trumpets at home likely played a part [02:28]
mircea_popescu so he's going away huh ? [02:29]
mircea_popescu mommentum player, has little to offer other than "nobody can beat me for i'm the king rarara" [02:29]
BingoBoingo He's going to continue kicking and screaming consistently drawing 25%-30% until he quits in May or August [02:29]
BingoBoingo Momentum player, media likes he because they are mostly Democrats [02:30]
mircea_popescu aha [02:30]
BingoBoingo But if Trump keeps drawing that large a chunk while Cruz and Rubio fight it out a Brokered convention is still possible. [02:31]
BingoBoingo Then again in 2012 Santorum won Iowa. [02:31]
mircea_popescu myeah. [02:31]
mircea_popescu cruz has ~0 chances of being president. [02:31]
BingoBoingo Prolly going to be Bernie [02:31]
mircea_popescu is this the black doctor guy ? [02:32]
BingoBoingo Bernie's the Vermont socialist [02:32]
BingoBoingo He's going to pull the Obama on Clitler again [02:32]
mircea_popescu ah ok. [02:32]
BingoBoingo And moar Mormom insurrections in the west are likely [02:33]
BingoBoingo ATM Sanders and Clinton are nearly tied in Iowa and could take a while to sort out that contest [02:34]
BingoBoingo [02:39]
BingoBoingo "@HillaryClinton Shouldn't you be in jail for #WhiteWater" << My daily dose of social media trolling [02:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29843 @ 0.0005637 = 16.8225 BTC [-] {2} [02:39]
BingoBoingo In other main-ish stream lulz [02:44]
assbot US ‘make rape legal’ group plans worldwide anti-woman event in 43 countries ... ( ) [02:44]
BingoBoingo Anyways, Trumps future is as a sort of Alternative Pat Buchanan [02:45]
BingoBoingo Anyways I have still not seen any reason to hedge by BitBet on Rubio winning the nomination. [02:49]
adlai shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"? [02:51]
* adlai doesn't even understand enough probability theory to phrase question properly [02:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00056573 = 28.2865 BTC [+] [02:51]
adlai s/average/below-$1/ might be more accurate [02:55]
BingoBoingo There's always risk [02:56]
adlai on further thought, the risk of doing this on bitbet is that "late leeches" will squeeze out your profits from the bets that should have covered your losses [02:57]
adlai fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this [02:59]
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mats i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud [03:10]
mats anybody know what i'm talking about here? [03:10]
adlai !s facebook [03:11]
assbot 936 results for 'facebook' : [03:11]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00056573 = 16.7456 BTC [+] [03:18]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00056522 = 20.7153 BTC [-] {2} [03:21]
mod6 asciilifeform: hey, ok posted those two to the mailing list: [03:22]
mod6 [03:22]
assbot [BTC-dev] Programmable Version String - Integrated Fix ... ( ) [03:22]
mod6 [03:23]
assbot [BTC-dev] Regrind of malleus_mikehearnificarum vpatch ... ( ) [03:23]
mod6 give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror. [03:23]
mod6 thanks in advance! [03:23]
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mats also looking for the discussion re: credit, not barter, being 'invented' first [04:11]
punkman mats, was it szabo's "The Origins of Money" perhaps? [04:17]
mats I haven't read this paper yet, so I may be recalling a discussion of it [04:24]
punkman "Debt: the first 5000 years" also discusses that point iirc [04:25]
punkman [04:34]
assbot Alphabet Becomes The Most Valuable Public Company In The World | TechCrunch ... ( ) [04:34]
punkman "coming in at a market cap $558 billion after jumping about 8% after the company reported its fourth-quarter earnings, and passing Apple, which sits at a market cap of $535 billion." [04:35]
mats thanks punkman [04:38]
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BingoBoingo [04:39]
assbot ... ( ) [04:39]
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punkman [04:47]
assbot Patience Diff Advantages - Bram Cohen's Journal ... ( ) [04:47]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00056596 = 6.6217 BTC [+] [04:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00056362 = 11.6669 BTC [-] {3} [05:01]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00056497 = 1.8644 BTC [+] {2} [05:08]
punkman [05:09]
assbot hut8labs/diffscuss: Code reviews. In plain... - GitHub ... ( ) [05:09]
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polarbeard << error() adds flag SERR by default: [05:18]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 04:41:22; mircea_popescu: polarbeard + return error(SBLK "chain tip %s not found in the block index", hashBestChain.ToString().c_str()); << any reason this has only one flag ? [05:18]
assbot polarbeard_better_log_messages ... ( ) [05:18]
polarbeard << I don't see how single quotes are a problem in practice, what valuable datapoints? [05:23]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 05:08:04; mircea_popescu: so basically polarbeard here's the thing : i considered signing this, and i will consider signing the next version. as it is however i won't do that, because a) not all errors have both flags set ; b) occasional ' in error message ; c) occasional losing a valuable datapoint (such as the hash above) or missing on adding a useful one (nStart). [05:23]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14317 @ 0.00056482 = 8.0865 BTC [-] {3} [05:49]
mats [05:50]
assbot Linux Kernel Library [] ... ( ) [05:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11630 @ 0.00056978 = 6.6265 BTC [+] {3} [06:05]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00056733 = 5.106 BTC [-] {3} [06:07]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5630 @ 0.00056982 = 3.2081 BTC [+] {2} [06:12]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.00056582 = 6.9596 BTC [-] {2} [06:14]
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BingoBoingo mats: That was a disappointment. I was hoping to see someone store linux kernel as dead tree on shelves [06:18]
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BingoBoingo !up AaronvanW [06:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00056036 = 5.2674 BTC [-] {5} [06:35]
BingoBoingo !up Nicknaem [06:36]
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Nicknaem i actually have nothing to say atm, was just checking out the channel :) [06:37]
Nicknaem Greatly enjoyed some of the pieces on trilema, just wanted to see whats going on here [06:39]
BingoBoingo Cool [06:41]
BingoBoingo Just poke someone if you'd like to talk once this voicing expires [06:41]
Nicknaem sure thx [06:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00056915 = 12.8059 BTC [+] {3} [06:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00056166 = 9.0989 BTC [-] {2} [07:05]
polarbeard PeterL: a getpeerinfo backport patch for trb: [07:06]
assbot polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch · GitHub ... ( ) [07:06]
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punkman polarbeard: not bad, which version did you backport from? [07:08]
polarbeard the nearest, [07:09]
assbot RPC: add 'getpeerinfo', returning easy-to-retrieve per-CNode data · bitcoin/bitcoin@1006f07 · GitHub ... ( ) [07:09]
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punkman [07:18]
assbot Suggestion: Marking of commits that fix vulnerabilities · Issue #7456 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( ) [07:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00056166 = 4.2967 BTC [-] [07:22]
polarbeard punkman: interesting, [07:23]
assbot Pull Requests · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( ) [07:23]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00056166 = 2.4713 BTC [-] [07:40]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18860 @ 0.00055872 = 10.5375 BTC [-] {5} [08:03]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9549 @ 0.0005563 = 5.3121 BTC [-] {2} [08:31]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2900 @ 0.00055824 = 1.6189 BTC [+] {2} [08:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.0005563 = 3.8385 BTC [-] [08:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11826 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5788 BTC [-] [09:12]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.0005563 = 6.5365 BTC [-] [09:43]
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asciilifeform ;;later tell mod6 << these look ok, i will test and sign when i get a chance [10:03]
gribble The operation succeeded. [10:03]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror. [10:03]
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BingoBoingo Oh, princessnell returns with links to qntra [10:09]
assbot Bitcoin Isn't Dead—But It Is Threatened by Tech Infighting - ... ( ) [10:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.0005563 = 19.5261 BTC [-] {2} [10:15]
BingoBoingo [10:16]
* asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket [10:16]
mod6 <+asciilifeform> ;;later tell mod6 << these look ok, i will test and sign when i get a chance << cool, thx! [10:18]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 06:22:46; mod6: give these a compile & quick test if you don't mind and then upon confirmation, I'll update the mirror. [10:18]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59000 @ 0.0005563 = 32.8217 BTC [-] [10:23]
BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Is there any other way to vote that doesn't involve doodling horsecocks on the ballot? [10:23]
BingoBoingo In other news, the crap weather that lifted Rubio to a third place victory in Iowa has made it here. At least it's too warm to freeze here... so far... [10:25]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00056158 = 9.94 BTC [+] {4} [10:26]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00056447 = 2.9352 BTC [+] [10:33]
mircea_popescu !up hdbuck [10:35]
-assbot- You voiced hdbuck for 30 minutes. [10:35]
* assbot gives voice to hdbuck [10:35]
BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [10:37]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 373.72, vol: 6176.05880644 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 377.592, vol: 5769.2799 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 372.17, vol: 15590.4673899 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 379.99, vol: 2.33567734 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 380.0912, vol: 30229.46150000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 375.56008, vol: 389.01040813 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 376.9125, vol: 55.11831967 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message) [10:37]
BingoBoingo ;;more [10:37]
gribble 377.012769104 [10:37]
BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats [10:37]
gribble Current Blocks: 396310 | Current Difficulty: 1.2003334065123697E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 397151 | Next Difficulty In: 841 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 0 hours, 51 minutes, and 44 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None [10:37]
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mircea_popescu << yes, just as soon as that someone either a) gets out of childhood by putting some scratch together or b) gets out of senility by understanding which side the future's buttered on. [10:39]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 05:50:41; adlai: shouldn't somebody who understands parimutuel betting better than the average bitbettor make nearly risk-free profit if the outcomes add up to "over 100%"? [10:39]
mircea_popescu as the ancient rule says, "people will do the sane thing just as soon as all alternatives have been exhausted". [10:40]
BingoBoingo Well, first they gotta make a Jim Crow Grand Lightning Network on top of BitBetBet results. [10:46]
mircea_popescu << there's mathematical reasons you always derive a benefit from an odds differential. [10:47]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 05:58:13; adlai: fight leeches with leeching; maybe reserving some capital for post-leech correction mitigates this [10:47]
assbot How to cancel your BitBet bet. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [10:47]
mircea_popescu ? or ? or ? really tons of stuff, will need to be moar specific, this is just scratching the surface. [10:49]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 06:09:12; mats: i'm looking for something either on trilema or the logs, about advertising fraud [10:49]
assbot Advertising on DigitalPoint on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [10:49]
assbot You know what gets no airplay ? Unflattering truth. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [10:49]
assbot MiniGame (S.MG), June 2015 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [10:49]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo totally that lol. [10:49]
PeterL for all the media trumpets who gets the "WIN!!" in each state, many of the primaries are not winner-take-all, so multiple candidates come away with delegates from each state [10:49]
PeterL so with iowa delegates getting split between candidates, it really did not change the election at all [10:50]
BingoBoingo PeterL yes. Hilary ended up turning a vote tie into a 6 delegate advantage late last night on... COIN FLIPS [10:50]
PeterL maybe we should make it easier and skip the voting and go straight to a coin flip to decide the presidency? [10:51]
mircea_popescu i would expect there's a lot of power brokering going on there. [10:51]
mircea_popescu all those nobodies on capitol hill gotta derive their delusions of relevancy somehow. [10:51]
BingoBoingo It's amazing 6 delegates were decided by coin flip and every coin flip was resolved in CLitler's favor [10:51]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [10:51]
PeterL but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster [10:52]
PeterL not that Sanders is much better of a candidate [10:52]
mircea_popescu ftr, i may be the only one left, but i don't think she's anything of a monster. [10:52]
PeterL depends on who you ask, I guess [10:53]
PeterL I certainly don't trust her [10:53]
mircea_popescu the woman is intelligent and determined. certainly a lot less stupid than it is average for the us. she's no bush nor any kind of redditobama. [10:53]
mircea_popescu PeterL you're not supposed to trust your ruler. you're supposed to feel threatened by them, i guess, or fear them, if you don't have a readier way to express submission in your own mind. [10:54]
PeterL I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any [10:54]
mircea_popescu people not trusting politico actually makes for one of the best recommendations they could have. [10:54]
mircea_popescu in what sense help you ? [10:54]
BingoBoingo but Hillary has been "waiting her turn", so the party bosses are trying to get her in despite her being a horrible monster << THis is how the GOP sank in 2008 with the lich, and 2012 with Rommit [10:54]
PeterL at least Sanders is honest about what he is going to do [10:55]
mircea_popescu which is ~nothing. [10:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2450 @ 0.00056447 = 1.383 BTC [+] [10:55]
PeterL well, some candidates (Paul) might get in my way/wreck the country less than others [10:55]
mircea_popescu the country is terminal tho. it's falling over on its own anyway. [10:56]
PeterL but I figure some candidates are going to make it worse than others, and I think Clinton would be one of the worst [10:57]
mircea_popescu anyway. in my detached view, this presidency is important for purely exterior reasons. the us, as it is, is irrelevant to everyone, including itself. the future of the us is mostly determined by the management of the image of the us, which is well divorced from the us of today, and a sort of future tendril of the us of 1970. [10:57]
BingoBoingo I endorse parting the thing out and starting over. [10:57]
mircea_popescu there will come a major pass with china, probably in the next five years. [10:57]
mircea_popescu on the basis of how the american handles himself there, the immediate future is decided. [10:57]
mircea_popescu for that task, she's probably the best hope. [10:57]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo under foreign management ? [10:58]
PeterL Split it up by state? Let each state decide where they want to go? [10:58]
PeterL Or dissolve all the states and start over from scratch? [10:58]
mircea_popescu this is the one bit us folk are too blinded by their own internal narcissus to grasp. you don't get to retry on your own as a failed state. you get put under the management of your neighbours, because you suck. it happened to the indian tribes in the same geography before, and they were extinctified by it. [10:59]
mircea_popescu PeterL neither of those are options. a russian oregon alaska and washington, a chinese california, a mexican arizona nm and texas and a european protectorate all the way to ohio is much more likely [10:59]
mircea_popescu than americans themselves having any say whatsoever in who gets to fuck their ass for the next ~century. [10:59]
PeterL Can we sell ourselves to Canada? [11:00]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Under foreign management, under the Bundy's, however [11:00]
mircea_popescu no. canada becomes part of the split, goes to russia. [11:00]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely. [11:00]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Nah, but mebbe the inspire the kid that did. 4 people left in Free Oregon lead by kid named Fry. Fry seems like he's staying a while since FBI killed his friend. [11:01]
mircea_popescu four people and their dog aren't part of this discussion. [11:02]
BingoBoingo Not yet. [11:02]
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BingoBoingo Anyways. The point is the Bundy fumbling has to happen for militia movement to develop which isn't 75% USG informant by weight. [11:03]
mircea_popescu not even the usg itself is 75% usg by weight by now. [11:03]
mircea_popescu just count the indians for a lul. [11:03]
mircea_popescu or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ? [11:04]
mircea_popescu the maggot language doesn't have a word for "corpse", and certainly not one for the corpse's ex-marital status. [11:04]
BingoBoingo I don't know that the Indian bureaucrats like Preet can think any other way. [11:04]
BingoBoingo But the point is the Shaun Bridges have to stop falling for the trap where they reveal their Gobag&fortune to loyalists. [11:05]
* assbot removes voice from hdbuck [11:06]
mircea_popescu yeah, which will happen five minutes after the usg stops hiring idiots, which will happen half hour after anyone who's not an idiot stops exclusively dedicating himself to the republic, which happens after i'm fucking dead, i should hope. [11:06]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8750 @ 0.00056519 = 4.9454 BTC [+] {3} [11:07]
BingoBoingo !up ahmedbodi [11:08]
* assbot gives voice to ahmedbodi [11:08]
* ChanServ removes voice from ahmedbodi [11:09]
mircea_popescu o.O [11:09]
mircea_popescu mod6 ben_vulpes [11:13]
assbot dpaste: 20D5709 ... ( ) [11:13]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo dood dat ass! [11:13]
BingoBoingo Olympian ass! [11:14]
mircea_popescu trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ? [11:15]
BingoBoingo Ah, monthly report deed finally posted, ty trinque [11:16]
assbot ... ( ) [11:16]
BingoBoingo wait [11:17]
BingoBoingo Fuck I wrote December instead of January in the first line [11:17]
mircea_popescu lol [11:18]
BingoBoingo deedbot-: [11:19]
assbot ... ( ) [11:19]
BingoBoingo [11:20]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [11:20]
assbot Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Report | Qntra ... ( ) [11:20]
BingoBoingo But in the positive side, 20 more posts than December while wordcount stayed rather steady. [11:21]
BingoBoingo On downside fucking old backup restorating clusterfuck induced error in December [11:22]
* mod6 looks [11:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00056227 = 1.0683 BTC [-] {2} [11:27]
mod6 we're about to get some snow. not as bad as IA tho. [11:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16750 @ 0.00056829 = 9.5189 BTC [+] {3} [11:29]
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PeterL ;;seen dignork [11:36]
gribble dignork was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 28 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 51 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: Genius - [11:36]
PeterL ;;seen artifexd [11:36]
gribble artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 40 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 19 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is. [11:36]
PeterL ;;seen diametric [11:37]
gribble diametric was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: not sure that makes it a trivial non-crime at that point. [11:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19250 @ 0.00055565 = 10.6963 BTC [-] {2} [11:38]
* assbot removes voice from ahmedbodi [11:39]
mircea_popescu ok so does anyone have a ready link or fresh context in head re that discussion recently (~month) of that british game publisher that went under with 20mn investment ? [11:44]
mircea_popescu one of the founders was arguing it shouldn't get govt support, just let it die [11:44]
deedbot- [Qntra] Turmoil Lead To Mizzou Credit Outlook Downgrade - [11:50]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22772 @ 0.00056982 = 12.9759 BTC [+] {4} [11:57]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4885 @ 0.00057044 = 2.7866 BTC [+] [11:58]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00057044 = 9.783 BTC [+] [11:59]
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phf polarbeard: PeterL: a getpeerinfo backport patch for trb: << [12:08]
assbot polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch · GitHub ... ( ) [12:08]
assbot polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc ... ( ) [12:08]
phf mod6: mod6: << [12:09]
assbot [BTC-dev] Programmable Version String - Integrated Fix ... ( ) [12:09]
assbot [BTC-dev] Regrind of malleus_mikehearnificarum vpatch ... ( ) [12:09]
assbot programmable-versionstring ... ( ) [12:09]
assbot malleus_mikehearnificarum ... ( ) [12:09]
* assbot gives voice to dignork [12:09]
mircea_popescu deedbot- [12:11]
assbot ... ( ) [12:11]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [12:11]
mod6 phf: neat! [12:13]
phf i'm just doing manual labour until i get an uploader of some sort [12:13]
deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Bitcoin to top $700 before Apr 2016 - [12:14]
phf fwiw the graph is still not quite right, i.e. shows presses that couldn't happen. [12:16]
mircea_popescu excuse the naive approach, but isn't that sort of thing precisely what lisp is supposed to by its nature prevent ? [12:17]
PeterL you mean lisp is less magical than they say? [12:18]
phf nah, my graph theory is rusty, and figuring out the right algo is a slow mind grinding process [12:18]
mircea_popescu if you're going to get an endless slog of obscure bugs that came from nowhere and aren't apparently anything, why not just use something that actually has libraries ? [12:18]
mircea_popescu PeterL hey, i'm a dialectician over here :D [12:18]
phf there's no library substitute for thinking. the "bug" is not obscure, it's just not implemented right :> [12:19]
BingoBoingo libraries don't help make the graph theory learning faster [12:19]
mircea_popescu lol k. [12:19]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo that is EXACTLY what they help. [12:19]
mircea_popescu the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to" [12:19]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: That was a library. [12:20]
* ascii_butugychag (~stanislav@ has joined #bitcoin-assets [12:20]
mircea_popescu which is how the entire world (except brazil) enjoys the benefits of refrigeration, even as there's maybe a guy in a thousand people that could explain how it actually works. [12:20]
BingoBoingo Library now means Ycombinator floaty arm things [12:20]
BingoBoingo !Up ascii_butugychag [12:20]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [12:20]
deedbot- [Trilema] MiniGame (S.MG), January 2016 Statement - [12:27]
ascii_butugychag << l0ltr0n [12:27]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 13:59:52; mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo sadly, the alf totally dominates that field. the bundy's dun have what it takes. not even remotely. [12:27]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00056892 = 8.9605 BTC [-] {2} [12:27]
mircea_popescu hey, i don't deny a man his right. [12:27]
ascii_butugychag << the indians have the standard, entirely ordinary loyalty of the rest of usg, but hypertrophied: loyalty to the hand that feeds, supplies nice condo, fat retirement, princeyaletonward for the kidz [12:28]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 14:03:19; mircea_popescu: or you think bhagwan chowdhry & the merry bunch actually have some sort of loyalty, or even any sort of conception of "US" ? [12:28]
mircea_popescu more complicated. [12:28]
mircea_popescu for instance, another hand would feed them if they went nude dancing. they don't. [12:29]
mircea_popescu yet another if they went oil rigging. they don't. [12:29]
mircea_popescu they have a very narrow cage through which they might be fed. [12:29]
ascii_butugychag the activities listed above are a) actual work, that involves not sitting in a climate-controlled chair all day b) really needs having been raised 'free range' chicken instead of cage-born [12:30]
ascii_butugychag do you recall the photo of a very peculiar boar that kakobrekla once posted ? [12:31]
mircea_popescu but nevertheless. it's not merely the hand that feeds. [12:31]
ascii_butugychag the one who was so fat that he could not even see [12:31]
mircea_popescu it's the hand that can be arsed to make it through the mental cage. [12:31]
ascii_butugychag picture wild boar paying him a visit, 'let's go for acorns??' [12:31]
ascii_butugychag << this is glorious. [12:32]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 15:08:40; phf: mod6: mod6: << [12:32]
ascii_butugychag << ahahahahaha l0l this would be true if computing were an actually adult field, like refrigeration [12:35]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 15:19:04; mircea_popescu: the role of libraries is exactly like the role of the fridge in the supermarket : "here's this capsule of other people's thinking so you don't have to" [12:35]
ascii_butugychag as it is, 'here is a capsule of other people's shit' [12:36]
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mircea_popescu yawell. [12:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19032 @ 0.00056752 = 10.801 BTC [-] {3} [12:38]
trinque << I have time this weekend to give it a look. What's the spec here? [12:38]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 14:14:45; mircea_popescu: trinque so not with the intent to pressure you, but : is deedbot patch insertion likely to come online soon or should i re-learn how to do it via email ? [12:38]
ascii_butugychag one must apprehend the ~systemic~ braindamage: [12:38]
ascii_butugychag picture if somehow the phlogiston theory had, by way of sheer accident, resulted in the building of a sorta-working refrigerator. [12:39]
ascii_butugychag which then went into mass production. [12:39]
ascii_butugychag phlogiston/caloric, rather [12:39]
PeterL << I seem to be getting alot of these error messages, should I be concerned (connected to Dulap)? [12:40]
assbot ... ( ) [12:40]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: bastard tx [12:40]
PeterL why is your node sending me bastard txen? [12:40]
ascii_butugychag from your node's pov [12:40]
ascii_butugychag you don't yet have the block they rely on [12:41]
PeterL aha [12:41]
mircea_popescu trinque i dunno, jurov was saying something about email, but that seems silly. just allow the import of files and piss them out as a json i guess ? [12:41]
ascii_butugychag dulap - did [12:41]
trinque << btcd's new thing, stops syncing entirely until restarted [12:41]
assbot ... ( ) [12:41]
ascii_butugychag why this situation can persist for more than a few seconds, is a question to be asked of shitoshi [12:41]
trinque meanwhile trb node at 393k, today is the day... [12:41]
mircea_popescu hey jurov phf ascii_butugychag everyone else with an interest : let's get a format for bot-ml-etc interoperability ? [12:41]
ascii_butugychag aha! [12:41]
ascii_butugychag how about !patch PATCH.vpatch SIG.somebody.sig [12:42]
jurov deedbot? [12:42]
ascii_butugychag << get rid of the heathen thing already [12:43]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 15:40:34; trinque: << btcd's new thing, stops syncing entirely until restarted [12:43]
trinque TODAY [12:43]
trinque his death comes today [12:43]
trinque jurov proposed that deedbot- start taking detached sigs the other day [12:43]
trinque ascii_butugychag: in that form [12:43]
mircea_popescu jurov well it's already here, already takes dpastes, not so bad no ? [12:43]
ascii_butugychag neato [12:44]
ascii_butugychag did we ever figure out how to dpaste without mutilation ? [12:44]
trinque does ben_vulpes' mutilate ? [12:44]
PeterL did we decide if wotpaste fixes the mutilation issue? [12:44]
trinque could get the thing a shorter domain [12:44]
phf issue was with html input boxes adding #
PeterL and could the raw be default? [12:45]
phf i think cascadian solution was to strip #
eturn on incoming posts?
phf but curl works reliably on any of the posting services. or anyway anything that can do an http post without fucking up the payload [12:46]
jurov mircea_popescu: i wait for deedbot to accept files and *detached signatures*, no dpaste braindamage [12:46]
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mircea_popescu jurov respectfully an' all that, but : didn't we test dpaste and it came out that it mangled nothing ? [12:47]
jurov i was not aware of these tests. and what if some day it will? [12:48]
phf [12:48]
assbot Logged on 26-12-2015 05:30:02; phf: (drakma:http-request (concatenate 'string (cdr (assoc :location (nth-value 2 (drakma:http-request "" :method :post :parameters `(("content" . ,(concatenate 'string "foo" '(#Newline) "bar"))))))) ".txt") :force-binary t) [12:48]
mircea_popescu jurov that's a problem yeah [12:49]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [12:51]
BingoBoingo !up ascii_butugychag [12:53]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [12:53]
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ascii_butugychag so there's a proggy i've been testin' [12:54]
ascii_butugychag not fit for battlefield yet [12:54]
ascii_butugychag and not sure if this is even The Right Thing [12:55]
ascii_butugychag you ask for a pgptronic random turd, a la assbot, it gets enciphered to your pubkey (if you are in l1) [12:55]
ascii_butugychag this gets fed into a small proggy on your box, which now knows where to connect, and what the symmetric cipher key is [12:56]
ascii_butugychag the latter enciphers a plain tcp tunnel. [12:56]
ascii_butugychag on other side is the same thing, started for just one session, with same key [12:56]
ascii_butugychag and on the other side of that, e.g., anon ftp. [12:56]
mircea_popescu so like minigossip [12:57]
mircea_popescu mossip [12:57]
ascii_butugychag draft name, 'g' [12:57]
ascii_butugychag (gate) [12:57]
BingoBoingo interesting [12:57]
ascii_butugychag ben_vulpes wanted some warez, and i realized that we haven't the most elementary provisions for warez [12:57]
ascii_butugychag and dusted this ancient thing off [12:57]
ascii_butugychag but not quite ready to fire in anger yet, this is a world-exposed sorta thing and needs to be 'measure 777 times, cut once' [12:58]
ascii_butugychag but i wanted to put this basic summary here, in case i get flattened by a bus or whatnot tonight. [12:58]
ascii_butugychag anybody got a favourite symmetric cipher, incidentally ? [12:59]
mircea_popescu cramer shoup! [13:00]
ascii_butugychag symmetric plox [13:00]
mircea_popescu ugh. [13:01]
jurov rot13 [13:01]
mircea_popescu you know, it's just like you that you'd ask about the one hole. [13:01]
mircea_popescu there's no good symmetric cypher. [13:01]
ascii_butugychag ^ [13:01]
ascii_butugychag but so many perfectly decent bad ones! l0l [13:01]
* ascii_butugychag specializes in 'the one hole', aha [13:02]
ascii_butugychag btw how come nobody uses blum-blum-shub, which provably reduces to quadratic residuosity hardness, as a block cipher ? [13:03]
mircea_popescu expensive, wasn't it ? [13:04]
ascii_butugychag possibly this, but possibly the proof is dodgy [13:04]
ascii_butugychag iirc it has some fine points [13:05]
mircea_popescu this is actually a good call for wisdoms. what's the #b-a symmetric cypher ? [13:05]
mircea_popescu beats nist certification. speak up. [13:06]
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ascii_butugychag << good bits of this read rather usgtronic [13:07]
assbot Blum Blum Shub vs. AES-CTR or other CSPRNGs - Cryptography Stack Exchange ... ( ) [13:07]
ascii_butugychag 'it's slow and there are boojums and didja know it's slow??...' [13:07]
punkman this says it uses blum-blum-shub [13:08]
assbot Blum–Goldwasser cryptosystem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( ) [13:08]
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ascii_butugychag << motherfucking fud [13:11]
assbot [Cryptography] Dual_EC_DRBG backdoor: a proof of concept ... ( ) [13:11]
ascii_butugychag 'pushes the problem down to your rng' which 'of course' can never work [13:11]
mircea_popescu well... can it ? [13:12]
ascii_butugychag ... because the pope said, or somesuch [13:12]
* mircea_popescu pounds down on his empty cardano box [13:12]
ascii_butugychag l0l mircea_popescu has the rng! could be swimming in rngola [13:12]
mircea_popescu NO! because reasons! [13:13]
ascii_butugychag !s jon callas [13:13]
assbot 2 results for 'jon callas' : [13:13]
ascii_butugychag hm [13:13]
ascii_butugychag << ahahahahaha [13:14]
assbot Logged on 01-04-2015 21:20:02; *: ascii_field listened (in car) to an infuriatingly zimmermanish interview with jon callas (former pgp, now 'silent circle' garbage) [13:14]
mircea_popescu ""Many people who haven't thought it through have sung its praises over the years, mostly because they got seduced by the sound theoretic basis. Blum-Blum-Shub has two of the three flaws that DUAL_EC_DRBG has: it's slow, and you can't prove it secure. [13:14]
mircea_popescu ahaha what is this inept bullshit ? [13:14]
ascii_butugychag 'Jon Callas Former CTO of PGP Now CTO Silent Circle' [13:14]
mircea_popescu THOSE are "the flaws" plural of nsa-backdoor ? [13:14]
ascii_butugychag whole turd worth reading, but for pro entomologists strictly ! [13:15]
ascii_butugychag i now strongly suspect that blumblumshub can be proven to equal rsa in hardness [13:16]
ascii_butugychag BUT i do not know this proof, and it is not public. [13:16]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag incidentally, if you'll excuse the naive approach : couldn't in principle any p-and-q scheme be made to have a mutating p-and-q ? [13:16]
ascii_butugychag what we are seeing in callas and the shitoverflow derp is akin to the horizon of black hole [13:16]
mircea_popescu let me express this better. [13:16]
ascii_butugychag we cannot see the dense matter at the center, but can see the derpwalls around [13:17]
mircea_popescu isn't any "rsa-like" symmetric cypher basically an immature or partial implementation of [13:17]
mircea_popescu well... hm. [13:17]
mircea_popescu i dunno what i want here. nm. [13:19]
ascii_butugychag (i must mention, for completeness, that derpwall could have an opposite purpose, of preventing inquiriy into the ~weakness~ of b-b-s when used as prng, as it is in many systems incl. iirc, certain versions of winblowz) [13:19]
ascii_butugychag it is interesting, to me, how the derpwall of 'don't go there! dragons!' always has quite the same appearance, from a mile away [13:23]
mircea_popescu "This is interesting because nowhere do they address the central engineering issue -- that a fixed p,q is not secure yet a variable one requires another RNG to seed the RNG." << except the part where a prng IS NOT A RNG [13:23]
mircea_popescu such thick. [13:23]
ascii_butugychag like the standard fortifications around usg pissholes [13:23]
ascii_butugychag this isn't 'thick', it is cheap confabulation and obfuscation [13:24]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [13:24]
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mircea_popescu remidn me, do p and q have to be primes or relatively prime in bss ? [13:27]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [13:29]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [13:29]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [13:29]
ascii_butugychag if they aren't prime, you're using multiprime rsa and if your smallest prime is small, you get, e.g., pollard-rho'd [13:29]
mircea_popescu ah yes [13:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5259 @ 0.0005679 = 2.9866 BTC [+] {2} [13:30]
mircea_popescu the quadratic residuity issue makes me think fermat primes should be somewhere involved in all this [13:31]
ascii_butugychag i always found it interesting that, after all of the $maxint spent on both sides of the ocean on symmetric crypto (see maslennikov's b00k, from the l0gz, say) we have - publicly - no more provably-hard symmetric crypto than a hundred years ago [13:32]
mircea_popescu what happens say if q is a primitive root modulo p ? [13:32]
ascii_butugychag that is, vernam (otp) and that's IT [13:32]
mircea_popescu the problem is not necessarily tractable! [13:32]
ascii_butugychag didn't say it were. [13:34]
ascii_butugychag just that none of the results, positive or negative, leaked out. [13:34]
ascii_butugychag (to where i could find'em) [13:34]
ascii_butugychag this'd be a neato use for mircea_popescu's network of little birds, incidentally [13:35]
mircea_popescu a one ounce bird can not carry a two pound coconut! [13:35]
ascii_butugychag can carry the smell. [13:35]
mircea_popescu if coconuts smelled ... [13:36]
ascii_butugychag and the one-bit, 'i saw a coconut' [13:36]
ascii_butugychag like noah's pigeon. [13:36]
mircea_popescu it'd be easier for it to carry one than to see one. [13:36]
mircea_popescu don't get me wrong, your point is well taken. just... [13:37]
ascii_butugychag << obligatory oldie, from my www; i will note that most of the proprietary ciphers are known to be symmetric. [13:38]
assbot Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name. ... ( ) [13:38]
mircea_popescu also known to not work, by and large. [13:38]
ascii_butugychag if mircea_popescu knows this, he oughta share [13:39]
ascii_butugychag because nobody else (at least not humans) does. [13:39]
mircea_popescu what am i to share, a scent ? [13:39]
ascii_butugychag sure why not [13:39]
mircea_popescu i shared it like three times to date when this thread came up! [13:39]
mircea_popescu you're always "wake me up when there's steak" [13:39]
ascii_butugychag l0l [13:40]
ascii_butugychag btw if you read that article, my hypothesis was that the usg ciphers are specially built to fail in a particular way. [13:41]
mircea_popescu i recall us discussing old soviet machines re that also [13:42]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21013 @ 0.00056744 = 11.9236 BTC [-] {3} [13:45]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: maslennikov actually discusses at great length why 'GOST' cipher, which is a cruddy knockoff of DES, was adopted [13:47]
ascii_butugychag he claims that it was disinfo. [13:47]
ascii_butugychag to 'guard the precious su proprietary cipherz' [13:47]
mircea_popescu heh [13:48]
ascii_butugychag the latter, he explains, sank with the rest of atlantis [13:48]
mircea_popescu you know why fat women on okcupid aren't getting laid ? [13:48]
ascii_butugychag guard their precious eggs, aha [13:48]
mircea_popescu they're guarding their precious proprietary meat curtains. for what ? FOR A GUY THAT DESERVES THEM DAMNIT [13:48]
ascii_butugychag similar. [13:48]
mircea_popescu same place the us is keeping its real economy! [13:50]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.0005691 = 2.0488 BTC [+] {3} [13:52]
ascii_butugychag my suspicion is that neither side has a block or stream cipher of provable hardness [13:53]
ascii_butugychag (cipher in the non-otp sense) [13:53]
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mircea_popescu "the proof of hardness is at the point of a spear" [13:54]
mircea_popescu neither side of the 3-4 sides involved EVEN COMPREHENDS what that'd be, let alone why they'd want it. [13:54]
ascii_butugychag mno [13:54]
mircea_popescu and the most exposed of the lot (the islamists) show quite clearly how it works. [13:54]
ascii_butugychag it isn't a difficult concept [13:54]
ascii_butugychag wai wut [13:55]
mircea_popescu to imagine the indian-us is any different is laughable. [13:55]
ascii_butugychag nsa complex is not indian - yet [13:55]
mircea_popescu to this fucking day "security" in the us is "he knew your mother's maiden name so clearly he was you" "what if my mother was a whore ?" [13:55]
mircea_popescu heh. [13:55]
ascii_butugychag (has bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going) [13:56]
ascii_butugychag that's pleeb seek000rity [13:56]
mircea_popescu that "bizarre schutzstaffel-esque aryan thing going" is the VERY DEFINITION of indian [13:56]
mircea_popescu what did you think indian meant, "smells of cardamom" ? [13:57]
ascii_butugychag aha [13:57]
mircea_popescu there's a reason the nazis were regarded as barely better than the russians back in the day. [13:57]
mircea_popescu certainly a step back for germany. [13:57]
ascii_butugychag anyway what i meant was, they have a pedigreed white meat thing going [13:59]
ascii_butugychag since the beginning [13:59]
ascii_butugychag see, e.g., snowden [13:59]
mircea_popescu when they start with "don't say nigger to be civilised and don't go topless to go to heaven", they took a step back. which means a step east. they're less greek and more indian. [13:59]
mircea_popescu no i know what you meant. it is SPECIFICALLY inferior in this specific manner we call "indian". [13:59]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [13:59]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [14:00]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [14:00]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:00]
ascii_butugychag i tend to associate this with old brit and ru empires, officers with purchased commissions, imbecilic commanders, 'blue blood.' [14:00]
ascii_butugychag cia as per ~its own~ official histories admits being an org made of 'second sons' [14:00]
ascii_butugychag (of commercial aristos, who did not have quite enough to bequeath to each son) [14:01]
mircea_popescu officers with purchased commissions is not in any sense a bad idea ~per se~. would you be lead by some schmuck fresh out of west point or by some dude who made and spent 10k btc to lead you ? [14:02]
ascii_butugychag the 10k are more likely to belong to buterin [14:03]
mircea_popescu i'll take my chances with the dude who spent actual money to get there. [14:03]
ascii_butugychag than to anybody who 'made' [14:03]
mircea_popescu which is the problem here. purchased comissions are not the problem - fake money is. [14:03]
ascii_butugychag buterin has (had?) a trunk of perfectly genuine money. [14:03]
mircea_popescu west point hasn't had a worthy officer come out of it since before you were born. [14:04]
mircea_popescu chances are chances. [14:04]
ascii_butugychag i thought mircea_popescu taught us that they quit making worthy officers some time around 1800 [14:04]
mircea_popescu but anyway, the whole caste bullshit is specifically indian. it is a cheap and simple solution to "what to do when confronted with multitudes and unwilling to think" [14:05]
mircea_popescu which is why it fits so well to the needs and capacities of the us today. [14:05]
ascii_butugychag anyway the funniest thing is that nobody cancelled purchased commissions, and other simonies - they are simply brokered through the credential racketeers now [14:05]
ascii_butugychag (e.g., harvard tuition is what, exactly.) [14:05]
mircea_popescu they CAN NOT be cancelled. [14:05]
mircea_popescu you don't get to soft fork things. [14:06]
ascii_butugychag !s buluceala [14:06]
assbot 6 results for 'buluceala' : [14:06]
mircea_popescu pretty much. [14:10]
mircea_popescu anyway : there was a short time in the history of europe (and therefore the world) where the masses figured that they're in power and since they didn't know what else to do, decided to promote entertainers to leadership positions. [14:10]
mircea_popescu which is how hitler ended up stuck moving divisions on a map [14:11]
mircea_popescu the tragedy of the austrian painter being that the fucking divisions were wholy imaginary throughout his tenure [14:11]
mircea_popescu that actual items moved in seeming lockstep with this for a while is not really germane. [14:11]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: so wordpress is retarded. [14:12]
mircea_popescu the folly of purchasing one's commission with song, dance and merriment should be plainly apparent by now. [14:12]
thestringpuller theme-editor is all "You don't have permissions [14:12]
thestringpuller " [14:12]
mircea_popescu i dunno what that is. [14:12]
thestringpuller I su into the user that php is running from edit the file [14:12]
thestringpuller and it's like "Yup I can do this" [14:12]
thestringpuller but when you do php f_open It's all "file can't be opened for writing permission denied" [14:13]
thestringpuller wtf php [14:13]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00056645 = 3.0022 BTC [-] {2} [14:15]
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mod6 shiva did expose a defect in v99996 of V (line 420), in one of the graphing subroutines (add_desc_src_files). the rest is fine. locally added simple conditinal check to see if the node is empty seems to have fixed it. [14:29]
ascii_butugychag shiva, or tinyscheme-genesis ? [14:29]
mod6 here's a screenshot of the graph after the fix was applied (locally): [14:29]
mod6 [14:29]
assbot ... ( ) [14:29]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [14:30]
mod6 i don't have tinyscheme-genesis in my patches dir. just shiva 1_of_2 and shiva 2_of_2 + the shiva fix. [14:30]
* assbot gives voice to mod6 [14:33]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [14:33]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [14:33]
ascii_butugychag mod6: ok now i see [14:34]
ascii_butugychag btw, educational exercise for anybody interested in shiva: diff ~the vpatches~ shiva-part-1 and the tinyscheme-genesis aggregate. [14:34]
ascii_butugychag you should get a diff consisting solely of pathnames. [14:34]
ascii_butugychag this, if you will, is a 'bridge' meta-patch. [14:35]
ascii_butugychag i did not sign it, because we have no mechanical provisions for processing such a thing, nor is it a long-term goal [14:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00056643 = 10.3657 BTC [-] {2} [14:36]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18139 @ 0.0005703 = 10.3447 BTC [+] {2} [14:41]
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danielpbarron << >> Although God has in the past placed women in authority over men (e.g. Judges 4:4), and even today the Lord places women in authority over men (e.g. Romans 13:1), this is nonetheless a shameful reality, as Isaiah illustrates. (Isaiah 3:12) [15:02]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 13:53:49; PeterL: I know she's smart, but I don't expect her presidency to help me any [15:02]
assbot A True Church - Scriptural View Of Women ... ( ) [15:02]
danielpbarron << I met the guy at both PaulFest and PorcFest (pictured ) [15:02]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 13:16:03; *: asciilifeform votes a straight vermin supreme ticket [15:02]
assbot ... ( ) [15:02]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [15:04]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00055632 = 10.0138 BTC [-] {2} [15:11]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [15:15]
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ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: roger [15:35]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26995 @ 0.00056009 = 15.1196 BTC [+] [15:37]
ben_vulpes << now this, i will review. thank you, polarbeard [15:39]
assbot polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc ... ( ) [15:39]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5499 @ 0.00057043 = 3.1368 BTC [+] {2} [15:43]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4039 @ 0.00056066 = 2.2645 BTC [-] {2} [15:52]
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jurov so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot? [15:55]
jurov or should i figure how to shoehorn .vpatch+ .vpatch.sig to dpaste? [15:58]
jurov or alf definitely proclaimed turdatron obsolete? [15:58]
jurov trinque ascii_butugychag mod6 ^ [15:59]
jurov !up ascii_butugychag [15:59]
* assbot gives voice to jurov [16:01]
jurov !up ascii_butugychag [16:01]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [16:01]
shinohai deedbot-: [16:03]
assbot ... ( ) [16:03]
deedbot- imported: 260FA57BCE677A5C04BF60BA4A75883CC1B1D34C [16:03]
ben_vulpes << not on receipt afaik, only returns
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 15:43:52; trinque: does ben_vulpes' mutilate ? [16:05]
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ben_vulpes << /me would read [16:06]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 15:56:39; ascii_butugychag: draft name, 'g' [16:06]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell adlai is this in reference to the tweet referencing a blog post referencing a reddit thinger? [16:07]
gribble The operation succeeded. [16:07]
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deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.25000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - [16:10]
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ben_vulpes << epic [16:12]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 18:01:26; danielpbarron: << I met the guy at both PaulFest and PorcFest (pictured ) [16:12]
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ascii_butugychag << vintage crapolade, lulzy [16:16]
assbot CipherLoc Corporation Announces Today That Cipher Block Chaining Mode Has Been Broken With Results Presented at DEFCON Conference Other OTC:CLOK ... ( ) [16:16]
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jurov !up princessnell [16:28]
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jurov hello, long time no see [16:28]
ben_vulpes << it's a business! it's a charity! it's some people who failed to invest in their property for decades and now want everyone else to shoulder the burden of bringing their property up to code! [16:29]
assbot This black-owned Portland business will disappear without your help. — Medium ... ( ) [16:29]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9919 @ 0.00055876 = 5.5423 BTC [-] [16:31]
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ben_vulpes g'morning princessnell [16:35]
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mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [16:35]
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ascii_butugychag ben_vulpes: played with shiva yet ? [16:36]
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princessnell thanks. howdy ben_vulpes + all [16:40]
jurov princessnell: you have here 15675 s.qntr shares, want to do anything with them? [16:41]
danielpbarron hi there :) [16:41]
ascii_butugychag the 64 gigazimbabwedollar question: [16:42]
ascii_butugychag is princessnell named after the 'diamond age' heroine. [16:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.0005548 = 9.1542 BTC [-] {2} [16:52]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag wassat ? [16:54]
mircea_popescu hey princessnell [16:54]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: b00k. neal stephenson. quite lulzy [16:55]
ascii_butugychag had little gurl, nell, who illicitly found a robotic tutor who gave her puzzles about 'princess nell' and taught her to survive in the Dark Fyootoor (tm) [16:56]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4054 @ 0.00055875 = 2.2652 BTC [+] {2} [16:56]
mircea_popescu << in other news apparently the anme is joshua unseth [16:56]
assbot Who made this ? on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( ) [16:57]
ascii_butugychag 'diamond age' is prolly closest thing i know to a fictional portrayal of... tmsr [16:57]
princessnell ascii_butugychag yes. i am lame. [16:57]
princessnell hey mircea_popescu. all goes well in the kingdom? [16:57]
mircea_popescu << not actually terribru. [16:58]
assbot #savetherobots ... ( ) [16:58]
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mircea_popescu princessnell well for one thing it's a republic and for the other [16:58]
assbot Logged on 31-01-2016 04:36:34; mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu: it's sorta incredible that the fiatists who need infinite growth all want to cut their own throats with reduced consumption while tmsr~, who doesn't want anything to do with infinite growth, is buying and consuming like it's going out of style << actually, best estimate i can get puts TMSR GDP growth for 2015 somewhere around 450-500%. that's not 4.5-5 [16:58]
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mircea_popescu hdbuck you know you're leaking ip. [17:01]
mircea_popescu !up hdbuck [17:01]
-assbot- You voiced hdbuck for 30 minutes. [17:01]
* assbot gives voice to hdbuck [17:01]
mircea_popescu !gettrust assbot hdbuck [17:01]
assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user hdbuck: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | | [17:01]
mircea_popescu and also you can self-voice. [17:01]
hdbuck ah, sure i know [17:01]
mircea_popescu princessnell and how goes with you ? ready to do some serious newswork jet ? [17:01]
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thestringpuller !up ascii_butugychag [17:06]
mircea_popescu jurov> so, was anything worked out yet between turdatron and deedbot? << not so far. [17:06]
mircea_popescu do you mind holding my hand again while i try to send stuff to this ? [17:06]
hdbuck mircea, about all that ‘proposal’ of yours, isnt it somehow sealing the 1MB limit? [17:07]
mircea_popescu !up mappum [17:07]
-assbot- You voiced mappum for 30 minutes. [17:07]
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jurov mircea_popescu: you're asking me? [17:13]
jurov i won't mind [17:13]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056905 = 9.4462 BTC [+] {4} [17:15]
mircea_popescu ok so i am sending an email to with subject line Certify polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc with content as a clearsigned short explanation of what it is, and with two attachments [17:15]
mircea_popescu polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch and polarbeard_add_getpeerinfo_rpc.vpatch.mircea_popescu.sig in this order [17:15]
mircea_popescu problems ? [17:15]
jurov no problems [17:16]
* hdbuck (~hdbuck@unaffiliated/hdbuck) has joined #bitcoin-assets [17:16]
mircea_popescu want a witness email cc'd ? [17:16]
jurov not needed, if it can find and verify the clearsigned part marked as text/plain or text/gpg, all is swell [17:16]
mircea_popescu aaaand ... sent@ [17:17]
jurov discarded :( looking... [17:18]
jurov had wordwrap enabled? [17:19]
jurov yep. you did [17:19]
mircea_popescu for the body ? [17:19]
jurov yes, the clearsigned text [17:20]
mircea_popescu redoing [17:20]
mircea_popescu aaand sent! [17:21]
mircea_popescu basically email-based ml posting reduces to human-impersonated irc bot o.O [17:21]
jurov huh, i now see only pgp signature without text [17:22]
jurov see your outbox [17:22]
mircea_popescu aghaga derp. [17:22]
jurov !up ascii_butugychag [17:23]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [17:23]
ascii_butugychag now mircea_popescu knows the joys !11 [17:23]
mircea_popescu 3rd's a charm ? [17:23]
mircea_popescu so far tis been my fault ascii_butugychag [17:23]
ascii_butugychag it is 'always the user's fault' [17:23]
jurov zing! [17:23]
ascii_butugychag 'doctor, it hurts' [17:23]
mircea_popescu well, no. [17:24]
mircea_popescu ahh there we go. [17:24]
ascii_butugychag congrats mircea_popescu [17:25]
ascii_butugychag btw which main.cpp does this patch sit on ? [17:26]
jurov it does not touch main.cpp [17:27]
ascii_butugychag hm [17:27]
mircea_popescu it's on bitcoinrpc [17:28]
mircea_popescu mod6 why is your v perl implementation named on ml instead of a saner v99996 ? [17:28]
mircea_popescu im contemplating signing this to reflect its successful usage to bring up nodes, but should i really sign a file called "" ? [17:28]
* ascii_butugychag goes & actually reads [17:28]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag tis short and sweet. [17:29]
ascii_butugychag indeed. [17:30]
ascii_butugychag this is how a patch ought to be. [17:30]
thestringpuller ascii_butugychag: you won't be happy until you have plug in head to computer [17:34]
mircea_popescu omaigerd jurov is such a gadfly [17:38]
* assbot removes voice from mappum [17:38]
mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 why is your v perl implementation named on ml instead of a saner v99996 ? << weird? where do you see that? [17:41]
mod6 afaik i've always named the actual file `' [17:41]
* mircea_popescu goes to check, finds [17:42]
jurov ooooh maybe ml renamed it to avoid conflict [17:42]
mircea_popescu where the fuck did i end up with this then o.O [17:42]
mircea_popescu mod6 << would be this right ? [17:43]
assbot ... ( ) [17:43]
mod6 yah, that's the right one. [17:43]
mod6 no idea how you got tho [17:43]
ascii_butugychag 1) rename 2) forget [17:44]
ascii_butugychag ^ the mega-algo [17:44]
mircea_popescu ok well. they're all 3 identical : the v, the v-0001 of mystery and the on the actual machine that pressed with it [17:44]
thestringpuller !s selinux [17:44]
assbot 11 results for 'selinux' : [17:44]
mircea_popescu so ima go ahead. [17:44]
mod6 alrighty. [17:44]
* HostFat has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [17:44]
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mod6 you may wanna hold off for a minute [17:53]
mod6 something is wrong with that patch, and V isn't doing anything about it. [17:53]
mircea_popescu toolate.jpg [17:53]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [17:53]
mod6 f [17:53]
mircea_popescu anyway, im not doing a patch. im doing [17:53]
mircea_popescu mod6 [17:54]
assbot [BTC-dev] Certify 99996K ... ( ) [17:54]
polarbeard ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu: hey thanks for reviewing and submitting my patch [17:57]
mircea_popescu cheerios. [17:57]
polarbeard anything else I can do? should I play with shiva? :) [17:58]
mircea_popescu by all means, i like to see an apoplectic alf. [17:58]
mod6 whats weird here, is that the hashes in the patch, before and after, match nothing that i've got. so i've gotta figure that out. [17:59]
polarbeard so is the plan to port all rpc commands to shiva actually? [17:59]
mircea_popescu yes. and then all logging and then etc. [17:59]
mod6 and that might be because i'm running with my two replacement patches for ascii's stuff that haven't been verified yet. [17:59]
mod6 will find out here in a minute [17:59]
polarbeard mod6: you mean on my patch? [17:59]
mircea_popescu mod6 that'd be exactly what it'd be [17:59]
mod6 looks like it compiled fine -- even though the patch had to apply with Hunk offset garbage [18:00]
mod6 this one needs to be reground [18:00]
mod6 if anyone else is in the middle of creating a patch - maybe hold off a day or so before you submit until I can straighten out the tree & test everything. [18:01]
polarbeard yes, it needs reground, I didn't know it will be submitted so what I published is on top of my better logging patches [18:01]
mod6 or at least until i give the "all good" signal in here. [18:01]
mod6 !up ascii_butugychag [18:01]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [18:01]
ascii_butugychag ty mod6. i'd like to note that in a time of 'fog of war', when some patch is up in the air, it is not necessary to hold off on ~all~ work, but only things which concern the affected subsystems. [18:02]
ascii_butugychag a, e.g., shiva.cpp - only patch - will work fine [18:02]
jurov and since everyone is regrinding patches right and left, maybe we'd like to revisit the notion of "obsoletes that other one" [18:03]
jurov ? [18:03]
mircea_popescu go on jurov ? [18:03]
ascii_butugychag jurov: it's a 'longest chain' sort of thing. see old thread. [18:04]
ascii_butugychag an obsolete patch is simply one that doesn't keep getting built on. [18:04]
mircea_popescu forking as a way of life. [18:04]
ascii_butugychag imho any other definition is necessarily un-vtronic [18:04]
ascii_butugychag just like in bitcoin [18:04]
jurov is that always decidable? if i have A, which has a child patch B, and author regrinds A into A' which is to be kept? [18:06]
ascii_butugychag it is no more immediately decidable than a young chain fork in bitcoin [18:07]
jurov imo both A and A' should be kept at leas B' isn't reground too [18:07]
ascii_butugychag when there are two prongs of equal length [18:07]
* joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [18:07]
jurov but how do I add both A and A' into the repo without renaming? [18:08]
mod6 ah, so this is what is very weird: [18:08]
mod6 [18:08]
assbot ... ( ) [18:08]
mod6 still needs to be re-ground, but was just weird that it had no matching antecedents [18:09]
mircea_popescu mod6 as he says, turns out he wrote it on top of patches that didn't make in [18:09]
ascii_butugychag mod6: what am i looking at [18:09]
ascii_butugychag ah [18:09]
mod6 and thats even with a full sync of the mirror as it exists up until this very minute. [18:09]
mircea_popescu well yes because he never actually published them, ie, by sending to ml or w/e the process is. [18:09]
mod6 mircea_popescu: ahh, ok. [18:09]
mod6 no worries, they need to be re-ground, i'll work on that. [18:09]
mircea_popescu but this MIGHT be a bug in v [18:10]
polarbeard yes, sorry for that, got me totally by surprise [18:10]
mircea_popescu because if i sign random shit that doesn't actually connect to the tree even if it claims to [18:10]
mircea_popescu it shouldn't press. [18:10]
mod6 right this is actually a really good test case. [18:10]
mircea_popescu then again [18:10]
ascii_butugychag i thought mod6's vtron actually verified each patch operation ? [18:10]
mircea_popescu it doesn't press. [18:10]
mod6 and yah, its certainly flawed. [18:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13527 @ 0.00057044 = 7.7163 BTC [+] [18:10]
ascii_butugychag (also important to disable 'fuzziness' in the latter) [18:11]
mod6 it verifies the post press checksum. [18:11]
ascii_butugychag but not the return code of patch -p0 < .... ? [18:11]
mod6 but that could be somehow broken as well, obviously, this needs some attention. [18:11]
mircea_popescu aite. [18:11]
ascii_butugychag (my own vtron verified nothing at all, i must point out.) [18:11]
mircea_popescu but as polarbeard among others can testify, this makes writing code fucking difficult, thanks god. [18:11]
mircea_popescu so many things you gotta check! [18:11]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu: recall how it was pre-v ? [18:12]
mircea_popescu aha. [18:12]
mod6 before i re-grind this patch, im gonna look into V a bit while I wait for ascii to give me the green light on the other two reground from lastnight. [18:13]
polarbeard it's a matter of maintaining a personal branch and an official one [18:13]
mircea_popescu anyway : this FORK BY DEFAULT!!11 tendency of the v world, whereby it takes serious work and generally to stay on the same branch is one of its best features imo. [18:13]
assbot ... ( ) [18:13]
mircea_popescu creates thriving communities and supports the implicit "fragmentation=strength" properties of the wot something fierce. [18:13]
ascii_butugychag mod6: you can give the green light to yourself, just vdiff the result of applying my two patches vs. the result of applying your unified. [18:14]
ascii_butugychag if same - then works [18:14]
mod6 im just trying to be sure, im already pretty sure... but i wanted you to look/test so i dont end up with more on my plate [18:20]
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hanbot deedbot- [18:23]
assbot ... ( ) [18:23]
deedbot- accepted: 1 [18:23]
mod6 man, v is failing badly. [18:25]
mircea_popescu eh dun panic mod6 [18:26]
mircea_popescu say, you got enough sleep last nite ? [18:26]
mod6 the output hashes of net.h/net.cpp/bitcoinrpc.cpp are not matching the vpatch at all, this should have died mid press. [18:26]
mod6 but it didn't [18:26]
mod6 sleep, eh, yah. [18:26]
mod6 bout par [18:26]
shinohai >.< do sleep mod6 [18:29]
mircea_popescu mod6 but does it press ? from what i see it correctly says no antecedents found etc [18:31]
mod6 it does press, yes, but it shouldn't [18:31]
mircea_popescu hm [18:31]
mircea_popescu unautomated tests ftw huh [18:32]
mod6 and.. even if it does press, it should have immediately haulted when it saw this: [18:32]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [18:32]
mod6 here's a debug snippit [18:33]
mod6 [18:33]
assbot ... ( ) [18:33]
mod6 i've got some idiotic thing going on in there, looking now. [18:33]
mircea_popescu tsk [18:34]
mircea_popescu !up ascii_butugychag [18:35]
-assbot- You voiced ascii_butugychag for 30 minutes. [18:35]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [18:35]
ascii_butugychag mircea_popescu:, mod6: notice the '5 offset' ?? [18:35]
* joesmoe has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [18:35]
mircea_popescu if only it were built in lisp mod6 [18:35]
ascii_butugychag gotta disable fuzzz [18:35]
mircea_popescu then it wouldn't have had this problem :D [18:35]
ascii_butugychag that way v will stop where it must [18:35]
ascii_butugychag i wonder who thought 'fuzzy' diff was a good idea for a default to begin with [18:36]
polarbeard 'this must fit' :D [18:37]
ascii_butugychag reminds me of the circular connectors, with 100s of pins, that rockets had - in su they copied american plugs, yes; but they also had sergeants with hammers [18:37]
ascii_butugychag 'yes it will fit!11111' [18:37]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10669 @ 0.00057044 = 6.086 BTC [+] [18:38]
polarbeard cable connection succeeded (offset 5 pins broken). [18:38]
ascii_butugychag ^ [18:39]
ascii_butugychag << them [18:39]
assbot ... ( ) [18:39]
polarbeard uhg, those would require --backup-if-mismatch --force [18:41]
* mircea_popescu had no idea diff even has a "fuzzy" concept. [18:42]
mircea_popescu how does this work ? i'm sitting here doumbfounded. [18:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16950 @ 0.00056976 = 9.6574 BTC [-] [18:42]
ascii_butugychag it did! [18:42]
polarbeard finds surrounding lines, omits whitespace, and don't know what more dirty tricks [18:42]
ascii_butugychag tries to find a place where the context fits. [18:42]
mircea_popescu but... so then why bother doing a diff [18:43]
ascii_butugychag it is 'patch' that does this [18:43]
mircea_popescu just you know, run a tail on the file. good enough [18:43]
ascii_butugychag tries to make the patch fit [18:43]
mircea_popescu oh. [18:43]
mircea_popescu oh oh nm then. [18:43]
ascii_butugychag and i warned, that this has to be switched off [18:43]
mircea_popescu jesus i wonder how much "mission critical code" was really written by patch itself. [18:43]
ascii_butugychag or you get improperly localized failure [18:43]
mircea_popescu 0.1% ? [18:44]
mircea_popescu 1 ppm ? [18:44]
ascii_butugychag prolly enough to be 'interesting' [18:44]
polarbeard lol, committed by patch [18:44]
ascii_butugychag and the overall effect is more similar to the rocket pins [18:44]
ascii_butugychag than to a ppm of anything [18:44]
ascii_butugychag (physically speaking) [18:44]
ascii_butugychag gnupatch has 'fuzz' because... you never know whether the comments got regendered ? or what. [18:45]
ascii_butugychag nfi. [18:46]
ben_vulpes whitespace gardeners. [18:46]
ascii_butugychag at any rate, v really started as a pill against this particular thing [18:46]
ascii_butugychag 'this patch applies IF THIS HASH otherwise FUCKOFF' [18:46]
mircea_popescu quite [18:47]
ascii_butugychag in fact, the use of gnudiff/patch is really happenstance [18:48]
mircea_popescu well this has been a most instructive experience. [18:48]
mircea_popescu welcome to the club polarbeard eh. [18:49]
polarbeard hoho [18:49]
polarbeard I'm aliasing potch='patch --fuzzy 1000' [18:49]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00056976 = 6.3528 BTC [-] [18:49]
ascii_butugychag v is simply a mathatron that deals in the basic operation h,s1,o,s2 where s1 and s2 are strings, h is an operation (usually a hash) for recognizing said strings via trapdoor, and o is a transform [18:49]
ascii_butugychag we have right now a profoundly braindamaged o [18:50]
ascii_butugychag that it works at all, to our purpose, is a marvel. [18:50]
mircea_popescu aha. [18:50]
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polarbeard you can always use meta-make ;) [18:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4580 @ 0.00057044 = 2.6126 BTC [+] [18:51]
mircea_popescu really, a properly behaving o shouldn't be a big deal to write neh ? [18:52]
mircea_popescu it's the "clever" one that takes 18bn loc [18:52]
ascii_butugychag it kinda reduces to 'p' [18:52]
ascii_butugychag incidentally, to answer a question that jurov asked a while ago, it is not only possible to use an arbitrary hash function with v, but even, theoretically, to use none at all. [18:53]
ascii_butugychag (the entire file is its own identified) [18:53]
ascii_butugychag *identifier [18:53]
ascii_butugychag this would result in gargantuan vpatches, but... utterly unassailable. [18:53]
jurov and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ? [18:54]
PeterL can v press to multiple heads, or do I have to pick one? [18:54]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: at the same time ?!! why?? [18:55]
jurov does v allow to press both AB and A' from one repository? [18:55]
ascii_butugychag jurov: A and A' are, if dropped in the hopper, equally legit pressings [18:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14295 @ 0.00057044 = 8.1544 BTC [+] [18:55]
ascii_butugychag jurov: a correctly-designed vtron - absolutely will [18:55]
deedbot- [Trilema] Qntra (S.QNTR) January 2016 Statement - [18:55]
jurov but the actual files must be renamed, no? [18:55]
PeterL I mean, I see leafs of malleus_mikehearnification and maxint_locks_corrected, what if I want to include both? or am I misunderstanding what is going on? [18:56]
polarbeard why isn't the last version the only valid one? [18:56]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: my original vtron was controlled by manually selecting patch sets [18:57]
ascii_butugychag this is really the best way, imho [18:57]
PeterL I am looking at mod6's v, and trying to figure out how to control it? [18:57]
ascii_butugychag place the ones you want in a dir, make sure you have the desired seals, and press [18:57]
mircea_popescu and my other question about maintaining A and A' in "mempool" ? << everything is in the mempool al ltime anyway. [18:57]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: you can do it just as well with his [18:58]
mircea_popescu the forget function is not implemented deliberately [18:58]
mircea_popescu every node uses its own [18:58]
ascii_butugychag my point was that there is not a special knob, you don't need it, your unix file system is the knob [18:58]
mod6 i know at one point i did negitive tests on this, but my problem in there is idiotic, i was not paying close enough attention [18:58]
ascii_butugychag want both? include both, and let it press everything it can see [18:58]
mircea_popescu PeterL you specify where you want to end up. [18:58]
mod6 << now it works. [18:58]
assbot ... ( ) [18:58]
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mod6 when you press, if the hash of the pressed file doens't match the expected, it should die right then and there. [18:59]
polarbeard I actually do that, but because metamake is really dumb :( [18:59]
ascii_butugychag mod6: i still see 'offset' in there? [18:59]
mod6 thats correct. [18:59]
ascii_butugychag ah [18:59]
mod6 it dies. [18:59]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13812 @ 0.00057044 = 7.8789 BTC [+] [18:59]
mod6 im testing the wrong fucking scalar in my condition :< [18:59]
ascii_butugychag mod6: patch .... -F 0 ... [19:00]
jurov phf how do you solve multiple versions of one vpatch? [19:00]
PeterL (p | press) (<press_dir> <head>) << so I have to specify the genesis? what is head? [19:00]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: the genesis is always implicit in the head [19:00]
ascii_butugychag thinkaboutit [19:00]
ascii_butugychag (all heads have arses) [19:00]
PeterL genesis is arse? [19:00]
ascii_butugychag aha [19:01]
PeterL oh, I was thinking about it upside down, I guess [19:01]
PeterL why not call it root? [19:01]
ascii_butugychag insufficiently descriptive [19:02]
PeterL ok, so what do I use as head? one of the leafs? [19:02]
ascii_butugychag genesis is where a v object comes to exist. [19:02]
ascii_butugychag PeterL: not necessarily [19:02]
ascii_butugychag you can use a non-leaf node as a head [19:02]
ascii_butugychag even genesis [19:02]
ascii_butugychag try it [19:02]
ascii_butugychag if you press to genesis, you get the bitcoin we started with. [19:03]
PeterL but if I use a leaf, will it include the other leafs? [19:03]
jurov i guess this is not implemented yet, ability to press multiple non-conflicting heads at once [19:04]
jurov *leafs [19:04]
ascii_butugychag my vtron had it [19:04]
ascii_butugychag but in a very primitive way [19:04]
ascii_butugychag (you could cut into the middle of a leaf set more or less alphabetically) [19:04]
ascii_butugychag my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last. [19:05]
ascii_butugychag this would give you the entire tree as represented by your patches+seals+keys set. [19:05]
mod6 this is the fix: [19:05]
assbot ... ( ) [19:05]
* assbot removes voice from ascii_butugychag [19:05]
jurov !up ascii_butugychag [19:05]
* assbot gives voice to ascii_butugychag [19:05]
ascii_butugychag mod6: i recommend for it to also run patch with F 0 [19:06]
ascii_butugychag (no fuzz) [19:06]
ascii_butugychag and to die if return code is ever not 0 [19:06]
ascii_butugychag ~that way~ you will end with a press of the last makes-sense pressing ! [19:06]
ascii_butugychag instead of rubbish [19:06]
ascii_butugychag and it will help you to learn what went wrong [19:06]
ascii_butugychag think about it: [19:08]
ascii_butugychag the result of a 'patch' ever not matching the hash, SHOULD NOT HAPPEN [19:08]
ascii_butugychag it is an error condition! [19:08]
ascii_butugychag should not be possible at all [19:08]
mod6 one sec [19:08]
jurov why include the context then? use ed output format or such [19:10]
ascii_butugychag jurov: perfectly valid idea [19:10]
ascii_butugychag jurov: context could, theoretically, be regenerated from the file. [19:10]
thestringpuller ed is the best text editor ever invented. [19:11]
thestringpuller should be mandatory kids learn to code on that for at least one project. [19:11]
polarbeard I'd enjoy no context [19:11]
ascii_butugychag thestringpuller: ever use 'sam' (editor) ? [19:13]
thestringpuller i have not [19:13]
shinohai <<< kek [19:13]
assbot Coinbase treats all transfers to your account as (1099) Payments : BitcoinMarkets ... ( ) [19:13]
thestringpuller << it looks interesting ascii_butugychag [19:14]
polarbeard sam, executable strings [19:14]
ascii_butugychag what exactly else is a program ? [19:16]
ascii_butugychag than 'executable string', l0l [19:16]
polarbeard executable ints? :) [19:16]
ascii_butugychag shinohai: that article is mega-unsurprising, coinbase is following 'letter of the law' in usa [19:20]
ascii_butugychag moved money? 'income' [19:20]
shinohai bleh [19:20]
ascii_butugychag how are ~they~ to know where you got it. [19:20]
ascii_butugychag if i dump a credit card into my own 'paypal' input, they will dutifully tally it up and 'income' [19:20]
ascii_butugychag the machine doesn't give a fuck to whom the card belongs [19:21]
mod6 ascii_butugychag: hey, can you take a look at this? i pressed up to the vpatch in the flow before polars then.. manually patched with -F 0, but didn't seem to do anything: [19:21]
mod6 [19:21]
assbot ... ( ) [19:21]
ascii_butugychag go, build arse-mouth system, rack up $1B in tax, $10M in paypal fee, ahve fun [19:21]
mod6 what am I missing? [19:21]
ascii_butugychag sooo apparently, [19:23]
ascii_butugychag 'fuzz' refers to ignored context [19:23]
ascii_butugychag and offset can't actually be disabled in gnupatch [19:23]
ascii_butugychag at least according to the man pages. [19:24]
mod6 thats what i gather too. [19:24]
ascii_butugychag idiocy. [19:24]
mod6 ok, well, we can worry about that later when we write our own patch-o-matic [19:24]
mod6 meanwhile, I'll work on an automated test for this change and work on republishing this fix as a one change deal. will be v99995 [19:25]
mod6 sorry folks. [19:25]
polarbeard that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it [19:25]
polarbeard actually F0 didn't apply offset [19:29]
polarbeard [19:30]
assbot ... ( ) [19:30]
polarbeard $ echo $? [19:30]
polarbeard 1 [19:30]
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ben_vulpes mega lol at coinbase [19:35]
ben_vulpes entirely predictable though [19:35]
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shinohai !up ascii_butugychag [19:37]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00056976 = 8.2615 BTC [-] [19:37]
ascii_butugychag re: block cipher thread: << interesting, djb [19:38]
assbot Snuffle 2005 ... ( ) [19:38]
mod6 *sigh* [19:42]
ascii_butugychag so on top of it all... the behaviour isn't standard ? [19:44]
ascii_butugychag whod'avethunkit [19:44]
* ascii_butugychag bbl [19:47]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3698 @ 0.00057044 = 2.1095 BTC [+] [20:05]
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punkman polarbeard: actually F0 didn't apply offset << it should, if you offset the code. but it must find the context verbatim [20:19]
punkman might be useful when we have hundreds of patches [20:20]
assbot Git - wiggle.git/summary ... ( ) [20:20]
deedbot- [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Stressed Out by Twenty One Pilots, translated. - [20:21]
mircea_popescu ascii_butugychag> my intent was that the user would include ALL of the leaves he is interested in by using a custom patch dir, and then press to the last. << this is not a bad approach (for dev work). i wouldn't want it in the press-for-deploy, but different story. [20:32]
mircea_popescu that's it, I'm patching every .c on my disk together with F 1000 and compiling it << lmao. STONE SOUP! [20:35]
punkman I'm thinking any diff replacement should do strictly binary diffs, and only include line-oriented context diff as a visual aid [20:36]
mircea_popescu punkman i've been thinking about it too, seems in point of fact we're mangling two distinct things. 1) patches-as-code ; 2) patches-as-human-readable. [20:36]
punkman F must be lower than number of context lines, so F 3 should do the same as F 1000 in most cases :P [20:36]
mircea_popescu basically it's the clearsign issue all over again. [20:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think salsa was djb's own version of shiva, ie, "playing with ; don't use in anger" [20:38]
punkman djb's ChaCha is getting pretty popular these days [20:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00057044 = 7.815 BTC [+] [20:40]
punkman "New features of Latin dances: Analysis of Salsa, ChaCha, and Rumba." << lol this title [20:41]
mircea_popescu lol [20:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform btw what about speck, nsa's own rot13 ? [20:43]
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punkman;a=blob;; hey this guy also likes single letter names, has a "p" program [20:44]
assbot Git - wiggle.git/blob - ... ( ) [20:44]
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mircea_popescu incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck this shift-and-xor hack-and-slash bs, [20:49]
mircea_popescu there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc. [20:49]
mircea_popescu <<< this is what small blocks gets you. [20:51]
assbot ... ( ) [20:51]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00056976 = 4.4441 BTC [-] [20:54]
mircea_popescu basically, do everything exactly opposite to the "wisdom" of a very inept if deeply self-pompositous field [20:55]
punkman why not stream cipher? [21:03]
mircea_popescu stream cypher = particularly braindamaged blockcypher, ie one with a tiny block/ [21:03]
trinque anybody recommend a way to import a private key to trb? [21:12]
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shinohai trinque have used pybitcointools with success [21:15]
punkman I remember some mentions of a backport patch for key import [21:15]
punkman but really, just create the tx elsewhere [21:15]
mircea_popescu actually polarbeard if you're looking for more backportage stuff to do ... rawtx thing. [21:16]
mircea_popescu but give it a GOOD read aforehand, it's crappy as found in .8 [21:16]
mircea_popescu none of this cavalry charging it. [21:17]
mircea_popescu !up likemob1 [21:19]
-assbot- You voiced likemob1 for 30 minutes. [21:19]
* assbot gives voice to likemob1 [21:19]
punkman mircea_popescu: stream cypher = particularly braindamaged blockcypher, ie one with a tiny block << vernam can stream [21:19]
mircea_popescu explain this to me. [21:19]
punkman I can send arbitrary number of encrypted bits to you, no? [21:20]
mircea_popescu so ? [21:44]
mircea_popescu this does not differentiate between stream and block. [21:45]
BingoBoingo polarbeard: And after rawtx ported Scheme X11 widget for interacting with shiva over rs-232 would totes make Gavin all Jelly [21:45]
jurov X11 over rs232, now that's new to me [21:47]
mircea_popescu lol! [21:47]
jurov !b 3 [21:47]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [21:47]
BingoBoingo jurov: Everything is new [21:49]
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BingoBoingo In other news at the end of 2016 GE is discontinuing compact flourescent light bulbs. Nothing of value was lost. [21:52]
mircea_popescu heh. [21:53]
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BingoBoingo [22:05]
assbot Bumping into Stallman, again ... ( ) [22:05]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32350 @ 0.00057044 = 18.4537 BTC [+] {2} [22:15]
mircea_popescu that may be the epitome of anti-interesting by now. [22:17]
asciilifeform << (c) has never been publicly achieved afaik [22:18]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: incidentally, thinking vaguely along the lines of making a b-a call for papers for symm cypher, what would we actually want ? i'm thinking a) block sizes of 1, 4, 16, 64 kbytes. none of that bit-denominated bs, wtf is this, 64 bits. fuck that. b) key size of 64kb fixed. c) bonus points for proved hardness, as-hard-as-x etc d) bonus points for not using just basic arithmetics. fuck thi [22:18]
BingoBoingo Yeah. Today was dominated by a bunch of these not quite news things. [22:18]
mircea_popescu yawell. [22:18]
BingoBoingo Like Amazon opening storefronts [22:18]
asciilifeform << non-chained blocks of whatever size, get you this [22:18]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 23:50:52; mircea_popescu: <<< this is what small blocks gets you. [22:18]
asciilifeform (for some value of this) [22:18]
mircea_popescu only if the block count is large enough. [22:19]
mircea_popescu otp is... not chained [22:19]
asciilifeform otp has no block size [22:19]
mircea_popescu the idea that "better box" rather than "larger blocks" prevents from that is not unlike the fundamental idea at the basis of whitening. [22:19]
mircea_popescu otp has block size = message size by definition. [22:20]
asciilifeform nope [22:20]
mircea_popescu show me ? [22:20]
asciilifeform in correct otp, you ~never~ get a situation where same block -> same output [22:20]
mircea_popescu exactly. [22:20]
asciilifeform << the motives for usg officially releasing a cryptosystem in 2013 can be discerned only by an expert psychiatrist [22:22]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 23:42:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw what about speck, nsa's own rot13 ? [22:22]
mircea_popescu aha [22:22]
asciilifeform (note that speck and simon were ~not~ proclaimed as crown standards, like des or aes) [22:22]
asciilifeform just thrown to the peanut gallery, for - apparently - the hell of it [22:22]
asciilifeform 'looksee! we publish!' [22:22]
asciilifeform << for connoisseurs [22:23]
assbot SIMON and SPECK in Cryptol - Galois, Inc. ... ( ) [22:23]
asciilifeform especially for ben_vulpes ^ [22:23]
asciilifeform << funnily, maslennikov's b00k was largely about his futile attempts to interest kgb middle management in group-theoretical foundations for new block ciphers [22:25]
assbot Logged on 02-02-2016 23:48:55; mircea_popescu: there's plenty of interesting constructions in alt-algebras, number and set theory etc. [22:25]
mircea_popescu aha. [22:25]
mircea_popescu this "make the block small" and "make the cipher computable" restraints are EXACTLY wrong. [22:26]
mircea_popescu they're straight opposite of right. [22:26]
asciilifeform computable? [22:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform eh, you know what i mean. "use xor it's cheap!" [22:26]
mircea_popescu fuck that stupid shit. if the computer massaging my 10kb message takes a minute i couldn't care the fuck less - it took me 10 minutes to get all the guns arrayed to make a ml submission. [22:27]
asciilifeform thing is, 'use modular multiplication instead! it's costly!' does not automagically yield good cipher [22:27]
mircea_popescu i specifically don't fucking want sub second cryptography. [22:27]
mircea_popescu it shows you're not using the machine. [22:27]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform absolutely not. [22:27]
asciilifeform the field of crypto that has provable hardness foundation is depressingly empty [22:28]
mircea_popescu if i tell the woman to "spend an hour cooking, this 30 seconds cookings are bs" this doesn't mean i'm inviting her to pick her nose for 59.5 minutes. [22:28]
asciilifeform doesn't even include rsa. [22:28]
asciilifeform however, i do find it... interesting, that it is not ~entirely~ empty, but the intersection of it and implementations ~you can get~ .... IS. [22:29]
mircea_popescu it's clearly where we must go. [22:29]
mircea_popescu from a strategic perspective, that's the spot. [22:29]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4395 @ 0.00056976 = 2.5041 BTC [-] [22:30]
asciilifeform most elementarily, [22:30]
asciilifeform otp. [22:30]
mircea_popescu dude you think yourself in 1650 or something ? [22:30]
asciilifeform good otp is easier now than ever. [22:30]
mircea_popescu nevertheless. [22:31]
mircea_popescu the punishment for otp is "you may not use computer anymore" [22:31]
asciilifeform sure you can. [22:31]
asciilifeform it just has to be coin-sized and include thermite. [22:31]
mircea_popescu "if thge best you can come up with is otp - give me back the cpu and take this mechanical gearbox instead" [22:32]
asciilifeform the weak link of ancient otp was always the rng. [22:32]
asciilifeform !s würfelgenerator [22:32]
assbot 0 results for 'w�rfelgenerator' : [22:32]
asciilifeform hm [22:32]
mircea_popescu !s whoregenerator [22:32]
assbot 0 results for 'whoregenerator' : [22:32]
asciilifeform [22:32]
assbot Mils Electronic ... ( ) [22:32]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform incidentally do you recall that very ingenious thing that worked essentially as a vinyl record player needle but on a random chunk of clay pot ? [22:33]
asciilifeform yes [22:33]
asciilifeform sigsally [22:33]
mircea_popescu sort-of like an extension fo the greek cone items [22:33]
mircea_popescu aha [22:33]
asciilifeform or hm, nope [22:34]
asciilifeform sigsally was the first electronic otp, american, used vocoder (in '40s!) but used ordinary vinyl record [22:34]
asciilifeform you might be thinking of 'physically unclonable function' which is a crackpot field [22:34]
mircea_popescu nanana [22:34]
asciilifeform that afaik never went anywhere serious [22:34]
mircea_popescu that's not it. it basically was a mechanical device, worked sort-of like the scytale except on a chunk of a clay item [22:35]
mircea_popescu german clockworkery if i recall correctly. [22:36]
asciilifeform never heard of such a thing [22:37]
mircea_popescu darn where the fuck did i see this thing [22:37]
asciilifeform would be interesting to see, considering that i can't get repeatable reading of anything out of a clay pot ~today~ [22:37]
mircea_popescu it wasn't a pot, it was a slab. [22:37]
mircea_popescu basically it had a place you placed the clay fragment in, and a rod which traveled the cracked surface. [22:38]
asciilifeform i only ever heard of breaking an object and the halves become identifying passes [22:38]
mircea_popescu wasn't very good in that it went back and forth over the distance [22:38]
mircea_popescu then again nothing stopped you from servicing it [22:38]
mircea_popescu well that's common. [22:38]
asciilifeform aha, goes back to at least babylon [22:38]
mircea_popescu dja understand how this thing looked or am i not explaining very well ? [22:39]
asciilifeform i can nearly picture it. [22:39]
* mircea_popescu distinctly recalls the very smoothly polished travel rod [22:39]
mircea_popescu which isn't fucking useful. [22:39]
mircea_popescu anyway : best ux ever in a mechanical cryptological machine. you could use as many slabs per message as you felt like. [22:40]
asciilifeform and your key weighs 500kg! [22:40]
asciilifeform and he doesn't like paper otp ! [22:40]
mircea_popescu hey, nobody said it's cheap. [22:40]
asciilifeform at least paper ~burns~ [22:40]
mircea_popescu but this was a 1700s item im pretty sure [22:40]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform clay breaks :) [22:41]
mircea_popescu drop the 500kgs, forget about that key lol [22:41]
asciilifeform aha and you can load musket with it. [22:41]
mircea_popescu anyway - it's not that i don't like paper otp, or otp generally. it's that if that's the best you can do, you should have been a clockmaker [22:42]
mircea_popescu so as not to say "should have been a shoemaker" [22:42]
mircea_popescu dun need computers for otp. [22:42]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36900 @ 0.00056573 = 20.8754 BTC [-] {7} [22:45]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22881 @ 0.00056354 = 12.8944 BTC [-] {3} [22:46]
asciilifeform actually for many years i have thought about the ideal electric otp. [22:54]
asciilifeform it would, likely, be ~electrochemical~ [22:54]
asciilifeform consider: [22:54]
asciilifeform the ideal otp machine: [22:54]
asciilifeform 1) the random bits are born all at once, rather than written in one (or machine word) at a time from some specially-built electronic widget [22:54]
asciilifeform 2) are born on the two (or more) carriers at the same time [22:55]
asciilifeform that then go their separate ways; [22:55]
asciilifeform 3) come out one at a time [22:55]
asciilifeform 4) are, ideally, erased irrevocably by so doing, or at least erasable in reasonably small chunks (when used) and destroyable all at once (when you pull the pin) [22:56]
asciilifeform 5) cannot under any circumstances be ~read~ all at once or quickly enough to be considered 'all at once' for practical purposes of enemy capture & device switcheroo [22:56]
asciilifeform each of these 5 pieces contains a number of sub-boojums [22:57]
asciilifeform e.g., 1 and 2 imply that there are sufficient bits per entropy without having to resort to whitenings or distillation [22:58]
asciilifeform (the former being an exercise in self-delusion, the latter - adds complexity and potentially buggy or noisy circuitry) [22:58]
asciilifeform some of the variants i've envisioned include.... a certain kind of battery, where ion gradients vary when a molten electrolyte cools, and it then cut into 2+ strips, and 'burned' like a candle [22:59]
asciilifeform emitting two sets of ~same static waveform at once [23:00]
asciilifeform and... but why go into it here. anybody who wants this, can think on his own. [23:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform if you feel like entertaining some crackpottery, suppose a hash function defined as follows : a) calculate PM ; pM ; P!M ; p!M where P and p are the perimeters of polygons of K sides circumscribing and inscribed respectively in the same circle and !M is the bitwise negation of M ; b) calculate V1 = 2pMPM/(PM+pM) ; V2 = sqrt(pMPM) ; V3 = 2p!MP!M/(P!M+p!M) ; V4 = sqrt(p!MP!M) ; c) calculate H = (V1 - V2) * [23:02]
mircea_popescu (V3 - V4) and finally d) return blocksize digits from the key-th position in H. [23:02]
mircea_popescu how'd you go about attacking this ? [23:02]
mircea_popescu (and from 1 i see you like small blocks just abour as much as i do) [23:03]
asciilifeform i would have to think about it [23:03]
asciilifeform but gauss could prolly tell you right now! [23:03]
asciilifeform wake'im up. [23:03]
mircea_popescu lol. [23:04]
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mircea_popescu (basically - they're the classical (archimedan!) approximations of pi, for the text and reversed text, to an arbitrary precision. makes for an eminently tunable hashfunction) [23:06]
asciilifeform terrible hash function [23:06]
asciilifeform bailey, borwein, & plouffe. [23:06]
mircea_popescu do you see what i did here ? [23:06]
asciilifeform (iirc plouffe was the worker bee and the other 2 were parasites) [23:07]
mircea_popescu it is apparently a lot easier to follow math in words than in symbols, EVEN FOR YOU [23:07]
asciilifeform why the bitwise negation ? [23:07]
asciilifeform actually i am writing it out in symbols!111111 [23:07]
asciilifeform to follow at all!11 [23:07]
mircea_popescu HA! [23:07]
mircea_popescu you took a second to answer after my 2nd line, minutes after the first produced nothing! timing attack on your brain! [23:08]
asciilifeform clearly!1 [23:08]
mircea_popescu lol [23:08]
mircea_popescu anyway - being able to calculate pi itself does not actually help here. [23:08]
mircea_popescu because we're specifically collecting hte noise of the formula against the text and its mirror, rather than pi itself. [23:09]
mircea_popescu hence the substractions. [23:09]
asciilifeform the root ops go poorly with bit arithmetic [23:10]
mircea_popescu so they do. [23:10]
mircea_popescu GOOD. [23:10]
mircea_popescu fuck the fucking computing-centring paradigm in crypotography [23:10]
mircea_popescu it's your tool not your fucking master. [23:10]
asciilifeform then let's have the candle. [23:10]
mircea_popescu no. [23:10]
mircea_popescu it's your tool, it must be used. [23:11]
asciilifeform then you're stuck with wandering decimal crud [23:11]
asciilifeform and titanic lookup tables, etc. [23:11]
mircea_popescu sure. anyway bignum operations is a solved problem [23:11]
mircea_popescu even in lisp [23:11]
asciilifeform 'even' l0l [23:11]
mircea_popescu :) [23:11]
asciilifeform (the original home of bignum) [23:11]
mircea_popescu (my trolling is ever more refined) [23:11]
asciilifeform but decimal soup is still ick [23:12]
mircea_popescu good. [23:12]
asciilifeform you won't have repeatable output [23:12]
mircea_popescu so ? [23:12]
asciilifeform no repeat, no decrypt [23:12]
mircea_popescu hash function not cipjher [23:12]
asciilifeform then works [23:12]
* mircea_popescu is still curious to hear how people'd attack, if anyone cares. [23:12]
mircea_popescu esp re preimage. [23:13]
trinque shinohai: I don't see anything in pybitcointools to shove a privkey into a wallet.dat [23:14]
asciilifeform i will prolly care. on the train, some time soon. [23:14]
asciilifeform in other nyooz, i bought that quiet fan kakobrekla recommended ages ago [23:15]
kakobrekla and its utter shit you will say [23:15]
asciilifeform and laughed when i uncrated it and saw that it ships in a gaudy display case, with clear window, and velcro (!) lid [23:15]
trinque also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do? [23:15]
kakobrekla whut? [23:15]
asciilifeform and was laughing until i saw that it starts spinning when i turn the box a bit ! [23:15]
asciilifeform shows off the quality of the bearing. [23:15]
asciilifeform no 'civilian' pc fan i ever bought, behaved this way. [23:15]
kakobrekla aha yea [23:16]
asciilifeform i haven't even plugged the thing in yet, and already impressed. [23:16]
kakobrekla the 'be quiet' ones that is? [23:16]
asciilifeform aha [23:16]
asciilifeform 'be quiet silent wings 2' [23:16]
kakobrekla they also spin at the lowest rpm of all the high end fans i tested [23:17]
phf jurov: i don't handle patch conflicts yet, until there's some kommunitee resolution. and if the answer is "remove them from your patches" probably going to add some kind of tree walk in addition to topo. fwiw right now on the site you can see patches that wouldn't press cleanly in "pink" [23:17]
trinque anyone? given a privkey in hand, how the hell do I get trb to send some coin? I do not want to change addresses and nothing I find can chew on this wallet [23:17]
phf jurov: like , asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum asciilifeform-programmable-versionstring don't press because presumably conflict with programmable-versionstring malleus_mikehearnificarum in order. no idea why polarbeard_better_log_messages polarbeard_fix_instance_print don't press though [23:19]
assbot polarbeard_fix_instance_print ... ( ) [23:19]
asciilifeform << you ~know~ wat to do ! [23:21]
assbot Logged on 03-02-2016 02:14:49; trinque: also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do? [23:21]
asciilifeform implement it! [23:21]
asciilifeform in shiva. [23:21]
trinque oh I'm already looking at it :p [23:22]
asciilifeform (btc-eat-tx vector) [23:22]
asciilifeform not so hard [23:22]
phf kek, i know why polarbeard_better_log_messages don't press. it depends on asciilifeform_malleus_mikehearnificarum, which is replaced [23:22]
asciilifeform iirc mod6 pointed this out earlier [23:23]
phf yeah, i'm not up to date on logs [23:23]
asciilifeform btw i don't understand why phf's thing needs to 'handle' patch conflicts [23:24]
asciilifeform just needs to display the tree [23:24]
asciilifeform from which is ought to be ~apparent~ what can coexist and what cannot [23:24]
asciilifeform for such is v [23:24]
phf well, the idea is that you want to click on the patch and see how to press it. if i were to click in polarbeard_* presumably i want to press the tree that includes old malleus? [23:25]
asciilifeform yes! [23:25]
asciilifeform anything that can sit down into a vtron, is pressable. [23:25]
asciilifeform by definition. [23:25]
asciilifeform and it ought to tell you how. [23:25]
phf right, but doing just topo won't tell you that [23:26]
asciilifeform the simplest algo, for all patchons in patch, dive down recursively and find ancestor. [23:26]
asciilifeform when you get to the genesis, you're done. [23:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform> i will prolly care. on the train, some time soon. << the reason i give it is mostly didactic. it plainly shows what i mean re proper use of math and treating your computer like a tool to do a job rather than treating your job as something to be adjusted to fit the computer without having to delve into complexities and subtleties of number theory etc. something as commonplace as "use the intervals of conf [23:27]
mircea_popescu idence of a polynomial method to estimate a transcendent" is really good enough. and it exhibits all those important properties : such as, you can ~actually~ use infinite message, and you can also use any arbitrary padding you like, up to infinity - the hash function won't complain. and you can want it to shit out any block size you want it to shit out - also won't complain, but give EQUALLY MEANINGFUL results. whether [23:27]
mircea_popescu you ask for 3 or 13 or 294 digits. [23:27]
asciilifeform (~a~ genesis, i should say) [23:27]
mircea_popescu trinque> also, I don't see sendrawtransaction in trb's list o' commands... wat do? << cry all the way home, we don't have it yet. backport it ? :D [23:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i am quite certain that you knew this, but pretty much all published block ciphers date to the dark ages, when transistor was painfully expensive [23:28]
mircea_popescu i do. [23:28]
mircea_popescu still, some points have to be made [23:28]
mircea_popescu REPEATEDLY [23:28]
mircea_popescu also, this is NOT a block cipher [23:28]
mircea_popescu but anyway. [23:28]
asciilifeform age of cheap transistor had a faux-renaissance where folks used the cheap transistors for elaborate self-delusion - 'this is sooo complicated, nobody!1111 could crack' [23:28]
asciilifeform which led to a pile of corpses and a reaction. [23:29]
mircea_popescu quite. [23:29]
asciilifeform which enemy, naturally, took full advantage of [23:29]
asciilifeform and here we are, somewhere after this. [23:29]
mircea_popescu whereas the correct solution is to stick to the math. computers are fucking tractors not farm designers. [23:29]
mircea_popescu but hey, generation of cad and web and whatnot. [23:29]
asciilifeform cud. [23:29]
mircea_popescu no i mean the autocad thing. [23:29]
asciilifeform yes [23:29]
asciilifeform and i meant cud. [23:30]
asciilifeform as in, what ruminant ruminates over [23:30]
asciilifeform or, alternatively, [23:30]
mircea_popescu speaking of which, i was walking with a woman i walked with all over the fucking world, and she spontaneoushly said [23:30]
asciilifeform computer-UNaided designs. [23:30]
mircea_popescu "wtf is with these large buildings they're all ugly in the same way" [23:30]
mircea_popescu and i explained to her what autocad was [23:30]
mircea_popescu and she was horrified ever since. [23:30]
asciilifeform thing is that brutalism pre-dates cad. [23:30]
phf moar corbusier [23:32]
asciilifeform cars all looking entirely alike are a better example [23:34]
danielpbarron >> "We're going to increase the block size and make more of them. Everyone should be able to mine a block." (picture of Bernie Sanders at some rally) [23:36]
mircea_popescu hahaah what ?> [23:36]
danielpbarron it's some account that's fairly popular in the twatter circles of people who use terms like opsec and infosec, pointing out that the proponents of larger blocks sound like the guy who's running for president as a socialist [23:38]
mircea_popescu << in other news, plouffe's site is gone. [23:38]
assbot Page Maison de Simon Plouffe Home Page ... ( ) [23:38]
mircea_popescu ftr, that's where the now-famous first of many "calculate nth decimal of transcendent without calculating the others" thing was published [23:39]
asciilifeform holy shit, plouffe? [23:40]
asciilifeform !?! [23:40]
asciilifeform desaparecido ? [23:40]
mircea_popescu aye. [23:40]
asciilifeform's_Inverter << also gone... [23:41]
assbot Plouffe's Inverter - OeisWiki ... ( ) [23:41]
mircea_popescu guy really gave numeric appoaches a serious push. [23:41]
asciilifeform << obligatory xah lee [23:41]
assbot Math Politics: Simon Plouffe and nth Digit Formula of π ... ( ) [23:41]
asciilifeform ^ re: the perelmanization of ploufee [23:41]
asciilifeform *plouffe [23:41]
* adlie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:42]
asciilifeform doesn't sprechen the inglisch so well, but not hard to understand: [23:43]
asciilifeform 'Peter Borwein wanted very much that I do a Ph. D. on the ISC but he wanted also to publish (with his name of course) an article before I deposit the thesis. Again the same story was going on, these 2 guys are so greedy I can't believe it. The behavior they had with me was not exclusive, especially Peter Borwein he was the same with most of his students, especially the good ones, sucking the maximum. Jon is the same but he has [23:43]
asciilifeform more talent in politics (more money too). He is good but has a tendency to site himself a lot. He thinks that if he had the idea of the sum of 2 numbers at one point in his life then all formulas in mathematics are his own discovery. About David H. Bailey. He came after the discovery of the formula and my small basic program , I had also a fortran version. This is where Peter Borwein suggested to add him as a collaborator to [23:43]
asciilifeform the discovery since he contributed to it (as he said), this is my second big mistake. Of course he accepted to co-write the article, who wouldn't ?! David H. Bailey (and Ferguson) are the authors of the PSLQ program. That program is the version of the Pari-Gp program. I used it a little it is true, but what made the discovery was pari-Gp and Maple interface program I had. So actually, that person has nothing to do w [23:43]
asciilifeform ith the discovery of that algorithm and very little to do with the finding of the formula. The mistake was mine. Saying that Bailey found the formula is like saying that the formula was found by the Maple and Basic program.' [23:43]
mircea_popescu did i read this exact thing before re wolfram ? [23:43]
asciilifeform wolfram did it to somebody else [23:43]
asciilifeform re: turing-complete cellular automaton proof [23:43]
mircea_popescu but the same text! [23:43]
asciilifeform not same text. but same bullet hole, same corpse. [23:44]
asciilifeform all bullet holes are quite alike. [23:44]
mircea_popescu indeed. [23:45]
asciilifeform one strong ox and two very, very effective plowing flies. [23:46]
asciilifeform << l0l! same bellard as of qemu and tinycc and many other fun things [23:47]
assbot The world of Pi - Bellard ... ( ) [23:47]
asciilifeform found improvement of plouffe's algo. [23:47]
asciilifeform 'world is small' [23:47]
shinohai trinque: sorry 'twas this mod6 and I used to do it: [23:48]
assbot jackjack-jj/pywallet · GitHub ... ( ) [23:48]
asciilifeform << lulzy derpatron from the spam in mircea_popescu's comment section [23:57]
assbot GitHub - 17Q4MX2hmktmpuUKHFuoRmS5MfB5XPbhod/dropzone-lib: An Anonymous Peer-To-Peer Local Contraband Marketplace ... ( ) [23:57]
* p15 ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [23:57]
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