(It all started as all good things start these days : on irc. Bien sur.)
~ Part I ~
tradingloser (42fef14c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.127.116.11) has joined #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu !up tradingloser
assbot gives voice to tradingloser
tradingloser Anyone losing money on cryptostock and havelock. It's killing me.
mircea_popescu You gotta read the logs.
fluffypony I don't use either.
mike_c If it makes you feel better, everyone who trades on those exchanges loses money.i
tradingloser Okay.. so O guess I'm in a double whammy.. I suck at trading + on a site where people always lose money..
mircea_popescu They're called play exchanges for a reason.
tradingloser Yeah. I'm just here for trying to get some sympathy.ii You're right though. Well hoping for a new start. I took what looks like the remains of neobee and cryptoshitstocks over to bitcoinbourse. Hoping for the best.
* jurov gaps
benkay Compounding, but in the wrong direction, tradingloser.
mircea_popescu Aahahah... truely infinite hitpoints.
tradingloser Hopefully the multisig co and casino stock treats me bettter.
kakobrekla You should be thinking about breaking the cycle of bad decisions.
tradingloser That is the worst skill I have. Greed + pissed off at neobeefuckheads..
kakobrekla Stop then.
benkay Why aren't you happy to hold your coins yet?
BingoBoingo Have you considered if you can't just hold coins, betting them at BitBet?
kakobrekla Iut your coins in cold storage and lurk here for half a year. Things will look better afterwards.
tradingloser Honestly, I lost like 88% so I just put it in some escrow verification company that just earns revenue ripping people.
BingoBoingo ... If you lose 88% at anything... How do you continue trying the same approaches that lost you the 88% without at least stopping to take a break?
pankkake If anyone still cares: neobeeQ delisting the 5th.
mircea_popescu Did the neobeeQ compliance officer ask for it ?
pankkake Lel. Havelock says they have no response whatsoever so that's the reason.
mircea_popescu So allegedly an alleged "compliance officer" that doesn't exist made a request (that doesn't exist) to suspend the trading of a supposed company with real assets that don't exist and the exchange with the Panama registration that doesn't exist complied, then re-opened trading, arbitrarily, on a new symbol, with no authority. And now are delisting the new symbol because... the inexistent officers of the inexistent company... failed to protest ? Did I get the story right here ?
tradingloser Because I did that boring Warren Buffet thing where you know consistent revenue will come and you buy and hold for a long time. Hopefully, multisignature is the future.
BingoBoingo tradingloser: That isn't the Buffet thing at all.
mircea_popescu Ok this dude is too fucktarded.
mircea_popescu !down tradingloser
assbot removes voice from tradingloser
He did that Warren Buffett thing, don't you know. Moving on :
~ Part B ~
The play exchanges aren't a Bitcoin only thing. They exist in fiat, too. For instance, kickstarter is a sort of GLBSE "half your money in half a year guaranteed" meets BTCJam "only 1/4 of our users steal your money within the first month", with the lulziest of results.
Consider the "Montrex Project", whereby some dude in Colorado asked for $7`000 to buy pre-made watch parts, assemble them into a watch, pretend this thing is "hand made"iii and sell them to the captive audience of idiots who have absolutely no idea what to look for in a watch, but are capable of entirely too much discretionary spending.iv
The project collected about nine times as much as it requested, a testament to the appalling quality of the horde's resource distribution. And once the 61,504 dollars piled together, the fun starts :
After the events of the last couple of days, we are very disappointed. The kickstarter Montrex project was to help build the Montrex brand. Ultimately, backers destroyed the brand and the reputation of the brand and its team. We certainly realize that not all backers were involved, but we also noticed that most backers did nothing to help as the reputation was being destroyed. All of this hard work is ruined. This was not part of the deal.
Because of the damage incurred... Because of the fact that we are being called thieves and con-artists and frauds without having done anything wrong, and coupled with the fact that we are being called these things so that we better come through with these Rewards after our names and brands have been destroyed or else, we have chosen to cancel this project.
The project was to build the brand. The brand was destroyed. Since we are being called frauds and thieves and nobody has backed us up publicly, then we believe that if we are being judged to be thieves and frauds and there is nothing we can do to change this, then our best course of action is to accept that we have been judged already and salvage what we can to cover the financial damage and permanent reputation damage we have incurred. We believe that we are acting in accordance with the Law and are not violating any criminal or civil statute of state nor federal Law.
We will be seeking legal recourse against those people like Matthew Dubinsky for defamation. Matt and other anonymous callers have also made threatening phone calls to us. We believe this is criminal harassment under Colorado law. (some of the correspondence we have received from Matt has been well above and beyond complaint level).
The plan at this point is to expect that backers will seek legal remedies and that we will take the position that the backers for the project were involved to help build the project but ultimately destroyed it and that since it was destroyed by backers, then we will not be the only parties damaged. The entire team including the backers will share the damage of the now completely destroyed brand. However, the backers will individually have incurred a very minor loss compared to the corporation and individuals whose names have been destroyed as part of the destruction of this project via defamation and harassment.
Moving forward, we will not be logging into kickstarter. We will only respond to letters sent to: Montrex Watches, PO Box 1961 Arvada, CO 80001-1961 USA.
It's unfortunate that this situation arose. We acted in good faith and were capable of fulfilling the project, but the destruction of the project and the names of people who were acting in good faith by malicious backers shall be shared by all backers as well as the company unless a Court of Law determines otherwise.
We are sorry for those who have been damaged by this project, but you individually have definitely been damaged far less than we have been damaged. Thank you for having supported our good faith efforts. We will not tolerate further defamation, criminal harassment, stalking, nor acts of violence directed at us, so we ask that you please conduct yourselves through proper channels and within the bounds of the Law.
Thank you for your understanding in this difficult matter.
Does this sound familiar at all ? You've read it a thousand times over, haven't you, any Bitcoin ASIC "company" could use it directly. A project that was started early 2013 and was successfully funded by March 8, 2013, with an estimated delivery date in June 2013 has that to say July 12, 2013. Remember ciphermine ?
24/12/13 Countdown reset due to delays, mailshot has copies of screenshots…merry xmas all ; 13/12/13 Sadly the beta release we wanted will be delayed by a week or so, more details in the newsletter ; 27/11/13 We have the gui wireframes back from designers..
It is... still not done, of course. What do you mean which of the two ? Neither. Obviously.
So what happens to the Montrex Project after the "brand was completely destroyed" and so on and so forth ? Did the "team" consisting of one delusional idiot go to lawschool to sue all these defamatory FUD-spreading slanderous souls ? Or did they just... you know... crack a beer and keep derping as usual ?
I've gotten some emails from backers who would appreciate fewer updates, and I think that's the right move. Don't mean to spam people, just wanted to prove that I am assembling watches. I've been assembling and shipping. Tracking notices via email go out when your watch is shipped.
BTW - I had an apprentice start yesterday. He is very enthusiastic about learning to design and make watches. Yesterday he came in for a couple of hours and I had him disassemble a movement and take photos of it every step of the way. I taught him how to properly handle watch components and use the Bergeon screwdrivers as well. Lot of learning yet to go, but he has so much enthusiasm. I plan to teach him and everybody who wants to learn everything I can - 3D CAD design, machining, hand-crafting, hand-finishing, assembly, repair, battery changes. In fact, I posted an ad on craigslist yesterday looking for additional apprentices to learn to the trade.
Hope everybody is doing well.
Right you were. The project was totally destroyed and "the team" committed seppuku, yet nevertheless three weeks later everything is going well and everyone's "successful".
Do you realise this ? It's a fact, this fuckwit was probably all over Reddit dispensing advice, he was probably editing wikipedia, he was probably pestering women on Facebook or wherever, acting as if he still... exists. Acting as if he were a human being, somehow. Mysteriously, inexplicably, still a human being, somehow worthy and capable of human interaction. This "team" of one is yet another of the dudes expecting you to pay part of their subway ticket and part of their college tuition and part of their rent and part of everything else. Because we're a society, damnit, we're all in this together. So go to work, do something useful, and share the results with... the team.
And the months go by, and some idiot in Colorado is smoking pot, singer-songwriting, voting, you know, activities. And then the rains come, and Autumn, and just as it's all moving into winter... November 7th.
Hey guys... the re-branding will be done soon. This will include different style of case, packaging, etc. Soon this projHey guys... the re-branding will be done soon. This will include different style of case, packaging, etc. Soon this project will be fulfilled. Best wishes.ect will be fulfilled. Best wishes.
What else was there ?
Supposedly that's what all was there, the brand. Supposedly "building" that brand was worth "the team's" time and "the backer's" money.v So now... that's it ? No more brand ? Why not ?
I'll tell you why not : because when you put a monkey in front of anything with buttons on it, the monkey will push all the buttons. Because that's what monkeys do. And the odds of any button being pushed mostly work out as a function of the buttons' color, shape, size and generally speaking visibility. So yeah he's going to "re-do the branding", what else ? What else is there ? Something really complicated and difficult that he's too fucking stupid to identify anyway ? No, he'll do something he can readily represent to something he can readily observe. If this guy were a farmer, he'd have been running the harvesters on the bare field, in the cold November rain.
Because that's what a monkey'd do, and that's what these things we keep alive for absolutely no reason are : monkeys.
Poor people are not human. Poor people are an animal species, not as useful as bovines, not as amusing as felines, definitely not nearly as loyal as canids. They're not human, they're not useful, interesting or cool. They're something between chimps and giant roundworms. They're something intimately connected to shit.
They're something between chimps and giant roundworms, and it is my considered opinion that it's high time for a purging.
~ Part 3 ~
Meanwhile back at chimp ranch,
Garrett on April 1
hopefully someone will get a watch one of these days.
Steven Chiang on February 17
Very bad case in Kickstarter, nothing worth to look back here.
michael gregg on February 14
Forget re-branding man. Where are these watches. I am considering filing a fraud claim against the credit card transaction.
Mike Danseglio on November 18
Terry, I've also waited patiently and not complained. I have faith that this project will have a happy ending. Please post an update soon, if possible with photos like your early updates so we can all sleep easier.
Gary Merinstein on November 14
You're a thief, plain and simple. Even if you eventually do deliver something, nothing you have done has been remotely ethical.
Keep running, Terry.
Steven Chiang on November 14
Hope you were totally released from any burden and never cheat with anyone of this project include your soul.
Shall I will receive my Montrex in this year? Or just a dream, a terrible lesson learn worth US$310 ?
Ben Sochan on November 10
As someone who has patiently waited and given you time and breathing space to fufill the promise of a watch being delivered, the poor level of communication and the fact that my watch has not showed up yet, leave me with no alternative but to ask for a refund at this point. I will wait a couple of days for a response before I start processes with my local credit card company but would appreciate some form of communication from you.
Alexis Rolon on November 10
May I please have my money returned to me, thank you.
On and on and on it goes. Here's the kicker for you : all these peoplevi continued to engage in this behaviour. This matter has implications, and of the most serious kind.
Next time you want to argue for "consumer protection" in Bitcoin, I will simply think that I do not wish to protect your consumer. Nobody of any worth, sense or importance does. Because your consumer is not a human being, your consumer is not my mother, my sister, my girlfriend. Your consumer is a monkey, a filthy, disgusting, alien life form. Your consumer is an indignity upon the world, a stain on life. Your consumer should die.
Preferably a horrible, screaming, painful death - or maybe rotting alive somewhere in a dark, dank cellar. In no case should the consumer survive, and so protecting it is quite out of the question. I would consider it a major victory for the consumer lobby if it manages to simply defend the neutral border, where the consumer isn't actually sought out deliberately for execution. Any sort of protecting is quite squarely outside of any sort of discussion.
That aside, next you wish to argue for easements - maybe children should get free food so no children starve ? Maybe young adults should get free education ? Or a minimum guaranteed wage ? Or free condoms ? Or subsidized health care ? Well... my answer will be no. They shouldn't get anything, because if they do get easements the result will be a class of the idle poor. We don't need, want or like a class of idle poor. Let the rich be idle, and let the poor work their hands to the bone under the whip for barely enough food to keep them going through the next day. Let there be culture and art and philosophy and literature and beautiful women and comfortable furniture and palaces and fine wines and good food and everything nice, all built on top of a huge mass of monkeys and roundworms being bled to death.
The alternative of tshirts and plastic widgets is unpalatable.———
- He has a point, you know. [↩]
- Guy's definitely a troll, but hey. It takes all kinds. [↩]
- If this perspective holds any water, all the computers I ever used are "hand made". Because I don't buy whole systems, I buy parts. Like fucking sane people. [↩]
- A problem somewhat related to the problem of too much money : when you construct a welfare state so the scum of society doesn't starve, because "they're people too" (which they aren't, for the record) and "nobody should starve", the net result is that a large number of subhuman life forms controls a small quantity of money per capita which in aggregate exceeds the money actual people are willing to throw around.
Consequently the entire society gets reshaped, because a young woman with a good voice that also plays the game rationally will be more likely to try and get a quarter each from one million idiots than to try and get a C bill from a thousand sane people. Because 250`000 > 100`000. As a direct result, there will be hundreds of Britney Spears running around, and scantily any Opera singers, and soon enough shitpiles like wikipedia, made by the retards for the retards, will pretend like Britney Spears is a singer or something.
This creates a vicious cycle, where more and more resources are wasted on the nonsense of the scum, and soon enough the entirety of society is ready to collapse under the weight of small bad decisions made by a large number of idiots that managed to overpower the judicious decisions made by actually sane people for much higher per capita weight, but for much less overall impact.
Basically, welfare states empower the unthinking scum to zerg the productive, important and valuable members of society. Bitcoin reverses this trend, forcing the scum back into squalor and actual people back into the drivers' seat, which is why Bitcoin is so very important for any sort of sustainable societal construct, and for humanity as a whole to have any sort of hope and future. [↩]
- Hey, at least they don't call idiots investors over there. [↩]
- With the exception of Steven Chiang (the weirdo). [↩]