Forum logs for 31 Aug 2014
Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
* | Now talking on #bitcoin-assets | [00:51] |
* | Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com | [00:51] |
* | Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 | [00:51] |
-assbot- | Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. | [00:51] |
* | assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu | [00:51] |
Apocalyptic | asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ? | [00:52] |
asciilifeform | Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way | [00:53] |
mircea_popescu | this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke. | [00:53] |
asciilifeform | Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print | [00:53] |
mircea_popescu | Apocalyptic do you know it ? | [00:54] |
asciilifeform | everybody knows that one. | [00:54] |
Apocalyptic | this looks like it was printed first, allegedly in 1990 | [00:54] |
Apocalyptic | mircea, I'm asking whether it's worth a read, I don't have nor know it | [00:55] |
mircea_popescu | i meant the joke | [00:55] |
Apocalyptic | I don't | [00:56] |
mircea_popescu | cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained. | [00:56] |
mircea_popescu | cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again | [00:57] |
mircea_popescu | by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire. | [00:57] |
mircea_popescu | finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely | [00:57] |
mircea_popescu | he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes | [00:57] |
mircea_popescu | "mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?" | [00:58] |
mircea_popescu | "i dunno... maybe stop sending niggers ?" | [00:58] |
mircea_popescu | what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ? | [00:58] |
asciilifeform | based on supposedly-actual story, where russians noticed that staples in certain passports failed to rust. | [00:58] |
mircea_popescu | yea lol | [00:59] |
asciilifeform | cristopher << brit. mitrokhin surrendered to the brits. | [00:59] |
mircea_popescu | so ? | [00:59] |
asciilifeform | muppet, who was given the job of cranking out a tabloid-grade book supposedly based on the 100kg or so of stolen paper. | [01:00] |
mircea_popescu | "inside the genovese family, by derparian herparistarian." wtf already. no armenians in sicily. | [01:00] |
asciilifeform | lol | [01:00] |
mircea_popescu | anyway, one is well advised to evaluate his level of interest on such topics. if it's a passing casual worth 5k words then skimming one of these pulpy offerings is maybe fine. if serious enough to remember names, then probably skimming the original papers is a better bet | [01:02] |
mircea_popescu | rather than reading the same "us girl next door in a sheet = roman matron" story re-written over and over 500 times. | [01:02] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: very few of the original papers were ever made public as such | [01:02] |
asciilifeform | and the authenticity of the ones that were - is, naturally, questionable. | [01:03] |
mircea_popescu | srsly when i saw you discussing indexing and searching pdf documents i thought this is what it was for - all that crap is pdf-digitized. | [01:03] |
mircea_popescu | outside of digging through secret service archives, why the fuck would anyone put up with pdf. | [01:03] |
asciilifeform | some. of the purported crap. yes. | [01:03] |
asciilifeform | russians, accustomed to carrying around terabytes of scanned w4r3z for a generation, prefer 'djvu' - for which there is really no substitute. | [01:04] |
decimation | djvu is a pretty amazing 'paper' compression tool. proprietary "paperport" works very well too | [01:05] |
asciilifeform | (fully documented format, originally, afaik, crapped out by 'bell labs') | [01:05] |
assbot | AMAZING COMPANY! | [01:05] |
asciilifeform | 'djvu', even on an aged box, scrolls so quickly one almost can believe he has a microfilm viewer. | [01:06] |
asciilifeform | a fat book takes <5 MB typically. | [01:06] |
asciilifeform | if you have an 'ocr' system, the format allows for an searchable text 'track.' | [01:07] |
decimation | to be fair I think there are methods of using good compression with pdf too. My main point yesterday was about searching the text, for which pdfs are not necessary. after all, if you ocr it, then it ought to exist as a .txt file | [01:07] |
asciilifeform | afaik patent trolls succeeded in more or less exterminating acceptable compression for scanned books. djvu was devised by folks who didn't care to comply. | [01:09] |
asciilifeform | present-day ocr is notoriously inadequate for scanned historic documents, esp. of poor quality or non-latin scripts. | [01:09] |
asciilifeform | plus one generally wants to keep the photos. | [01:10] |
mircea_popescu | this would have been a perfect application for ai | [01:10] |
mircea_popescu | "given this string and this set of photos, find the string likelies" | [01:11] |
asciilifeform | ocr performed on 'djvu' document typically inserts an ascii text track, along with 'bounding boxes' internally | [01:11] |
asciilifeform | so document becomes quasi-searchable while viewed in the customary way | [01:11] |
mircea_popescu | sadly... no ai. | [01:11] |
decimation | asciilifeform: yeah I agree, 'djvu' with a text-track would be a pretty good format | [01:11] |
mircea_popescu | maybe with quantum computing. | [01:11] |
asciilifeform | decimation: it's already in the standard | [01:11] |
asciilifeform | modern 'neural network' ocr - at least for latin alphabet - is 99+% accurate. sadly this is not enough to dispense with the original images. | [01:13] |
mircea_popescu | i meant "for any script" | [01:13] |
mircea_popescu | it's MACHINE intelligence after all neh ? | [01:13] |
mircea_popescu | this is where it should shine | [01:13] |
asciilifeform | yes, we'd all like 'a pony.' | [01:13] |
mircea_popescu | i'd like a fluffy one! :D | [01:14] |
fluffypony | lol | [01:14] |
asciilifeform | 'i even made a pony-monkey hybrid to please you! what's with all the screaming. you like monkeys, you like ponys. maybe i used too many monkeys... isn't it enough that i ruined a pony making a gift for you!' | [01:14] |
decimation | asciilifeform: do you know of a reasonable gui tool to search and index djvu's with text? | [01:15] |
* | mircea_popescu sayz sed! awk! then re-reads the gui part, ponders, gets depressed and leaves. | [01:16] |
Apocalyptic | heh | [01:16] |
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ben_vulpes | jurov: *shrug* | [01:22] |
ben_vulpes | indexing the blockchain? sed and awk! | [01:23] |
mircea_popescu | ben_vulpes what is the objection ? | [01:23] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: sed, awk works fine if you want to search your entire corpus every time | [01:23] |
mircea_popescu | and if you don't you can make them make an index file. | [01:24] |
ben_vulpes | ain't none | [01:24] |
decimation | this is true, seems like it should be a 'solved problem'. I think some implementations of 'hadoop' do exactly this | [01:24] |
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dignork | decimation: Lucene probably | [01:26] |
mircea_popescu | decimation i think the only reason it isn't a solved problem is this sort of argument : http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/ ie "usability". once you add that fuzzy requirement smart people get bored and leave, | [01:27] |
mircea_popescu | leaving the mess to be handled by the sort of people that make guis. | [01:27] |
decimation | true. making a good gui is difficult and thankless work | [01:27] |
mircea_popescu | no, it is impossible and thankless work. difficult is one thing. | [01:28] |
mircea_popescu | but a good gui is a provab le impossibility. "make me a very hot woman that still wants to be my girlfriend instead of say that guy's" | [01:28] |
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decimation | jurov: agreed. I'm always having to consult find, grep, xargs, etc man pages | [01:36] |
mircea_popescu | well depends how much thought you put into it | [01:37] |
mircea_popescu | i don't readily remember the names of all the women i've been with either. | [01:37] |
mircea_popescu | on the upside, once you get it done you can forget about it. | [01:38] |
decimation | heh yeah, which results in sites like this: www.commandlinefu.com/ | [01:40] |
mircea_popescu | "Create a random file of a certain, and display progress along the way." | [01:40] |
mircea_popescu | SYNTAX ERROR! | [01:40] |
mircea_popescu | MISSING PARAMETER AFTER "certain". please read your commandlinefu documentation and try again!!11 | [01:41] |
mircea_popescu | and who the hell has cowsay installed omg. | [01:42] |
Apocalyptic | "Random data is generated by encrypting /dev/zero" // a curious way to generate random data | [01:43] |
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mircea_popescu | "random" | [01:46] |
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asciilifeform | 'error - not a typewriter' << actual | [01:48] |
jurov | lp0 on fire | [01:48] |
mircea_popescu | not a bad idea jurov | [01:48] |
asciilifeform | lp0 on fire << saw this alive | [01:48] |
asciilifeform | (not the message. the condition.) | [01:49] |
asciilifeform | mis-spent youth. | [01:49] |
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asciilifeform | 'usability' << is not necessarily a nonsense word. consider the difference between the linux and bsd userland utils | [01:53] |
asciilifeform | in the latter, considerably greater consistency of flags | [01:53] |
asciilifeform | but yes, normally when people whine about 'usability,' they want - pony. | [01:55] |
asciilifeform | i.e., instrument with user interface of a pencil, but somehow not the functionality of pencil. | [01:56] |
asciilifeform | 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.' | [01:56] |
mircea_popescu | ^ | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | (the cunt also) | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | oddly enough. | [01:57] |
asciilifeform | on which end. | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | on both ends. | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | dealing with the fallout is learned, but using the things is innate. | [01:57] |
mircea_popescu | and for that matter, pencils are horribly unintuitive interfaces. think of all the great drawing in the world, and the poor user buying a pencil in the shop will draw what ? a cat ? | [01:59] |
mircea_popescu | this old world sort of nonsense can not endure my friends! i am making a company that will revolutionize drawing! | [01:59] |
asciilifeform | -- said herr daguerre | [01:59] |
mircea_popescu | shit. | [02:00] |
mircea_popescu | i just walked into that didn't . | [02:00] |
asciilifeform | did. lol | [02:00] |
mircea_popescu | +i | [02:00] |
* | asciilifeform always found it interesting that people whine if they try to use his computer, but never think to borrow eyeglasses and then complain | [02:02] |
* | Blazedout420 is now known as Blazedout419 | [02:02] |
asciilifeform | obligatory: | [02:03] |
asciilifeform | http://www.loper-os.org/?p=836 | [02:03] |
assbot | Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated. | [02:03] |
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asciilifeform | (moral, for the thick, is that an equivalent of the profession 'optician' does not yet exist for these machines) | [02:04] |
asciilifeform | and may not ever exist. | [02:04] |
mircea_popescu | dude you and your vi hate. | [02:08] |
mircea_popescu | but actually... i find myself using nano a lot moar these days | [02:08] |
decimation | I use nano when emacs is too heavy-handed | [02:11] |
mircea_popescu | so mebbe there's some meat to the assertion, vi inhabits a middle that doesnt really exist | [02:12] |
penguirker | New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/operation-terrorstorm-oneoneeleventy/ | [02:14] |
mod6 | <3 vi/m | [02:15] |
cazalla | oh boy | [02:20] |
cazalla | sounds like decentralised swatting | [02:23] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: yeah your post reminds me of Mr. Yarvin's point about insulting the "protected class". | [02:23] |
mircea_popescu | cazalla quite. costs like a bitcoin to do, too. | [02:23] |
decimation | one wonders about the total sum of $ that usg has spent just this year searching enemies of the people | [02:24] |
mircea_popescu | i have a glass table and an optic mouse. | [02:24] |
mircea_popescu | fucking hell. | [02:24] |
mircea_popescu | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBYM6g8Tck | [02:34] |
assbot | Los del Rio - Macarena (Original Video) [HD] - YouTube | [02:34] |
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cazalla | i wonder what the chicks in that music video look like now | [02:36] |
mircea_popescu | fifty year olds. | [02:36] |
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cazalla | !s newegg | [02:47] |
assbot | 22 results for 'newegg' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=newegg | [02:47] |
cazalla | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#756333 | [02:48] |
assbot | Logged on 15-07-2014 16:54:16; ThickAsThieves: even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg | [02:48] |
cazalla | would it be a safe bet the reason newegg and other sites offer a discount when using bitcoin is that it's easy means of coin for usg? they can print as much $ to give discounts and the coin flows from customers -> newegg -> bitpay -> usg? | [02:50] |
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The20YearIRCloud | http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/8/27/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-on-galts-gulch-chile.html | [02:58] |
assbot | The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on Galt's Gulch Chile | [02:58] |
The20YearIRCloud | so mr berwick knew problems last year and didnt do anything? | [02:58] |
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thestringpuller | i am about to go into a panel on bitcoin lol | [03:07] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00085109 = 5.447 BTC [-] | [03:07] |
thestringpuller | cazalla: this is great point | [03:08] |
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mircea_popescu | http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=240 lawl | [03:16] |
assbot | #bitcoin-assets bash | [03:16] |
decimation | lol The20YearIRCloud that's an amusing post | [03:17] |
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mircea_popescu | uomoletale ahajhajaja | [03:19] |
mircea_popescu | !up blast | [03:19] |
-assbot- | You voiced blast for 30 minutes. | [03:19] |
* | assbot gives voice to blast | [03:19] |
blast | huzza | [03:19] |
mircea_popescu | The20YearIRCloud i don't get what this "let's all go huddle together" thing is supposed to do. | [03:19] |
mircea_popescu | seems of the ilk of "island of women" and "tower of song", ie, cheap notional filler for "virtual spaces" a la video games | [03:20] |
blast | but the island of woman is real, except its a mountain, in brazil ;D | [03:20] |
mircea_popescu | ;;google tvtropes planet of hats | [03:20] |
gribble | Main/Planet of Hats - Television Tropes & Idioms - TV Tropes: |
[03:20] |
mircea_popescu | blast romania has this too. it's called gaina, which is how you say hen, and it's the place surpluss women were taken by their tribe for to sell over to another tribe for > 5k years. | [03:21] |
penguirker | New blog post: http://contravex.com/2014/08/30/im-big-in-fuzhou/ | [03:21] |
mircea_popescu | The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em << isn't there a reality show predicated on this process ? | [03:23] |
mircea_popescu | decimation lmao at those terms. so... why get it then ? | [03:24] |
asciilifeform | i thought those go to the basement of 'the fed' in wash., d.c. | [03:24] |
asciilifeform | it is said to contain a great many. | [03:25] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: re: 'swat' post: am i the only one who instantly thought of this: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/files/2009/09/14-sovietleaderleonidbrezhnevandeas.jpg | [03:26] |
mircea_popescu | lol | [03:26] |
mircea_popescu | someone should morph http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swatted.png to the lemons kissing. | [03:27] |
mircea_popescu | as a gif. enough nightmare fuel there for a week | [03:27] |
thestringpuller | theu are talking aboit the collapse of mtgox | [03:28] |
thestringpuller | i will be referwncing trilema | [03:28] |
thestringpuller | wow lag beyond trade engine lag | [03:28] |
mircea_popescu | decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere << bs lol. | [03:28] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: 'usg' in that context also includes all 'decay daughters' thereof | [03:29] |
asciilifeform | i.e., armed thugs turned free-agent when the whole thing finally blows | [03:29] |
mircea_popescu | sure. | [03:29] |
mircea_popescu | even so. | [03:29] |
asciilifeform | in my experience, folks preoccupied with hidey-holes tend to neglect the question of where they intend to hide... their arse | [03:30] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085067 = 18.1193 BTC [-] {2} | [03:31] |
mircea_popescu | meanwhile back at reality ranch, obtaining superior fire power in a limited geographical area is a trivial task. | [03:31] |
mircea_popescu | the usg collapsing doesn't make it harder. | [03:31] |
asciilifeform | while supplies last. | [03:31] |
mircea_popescu | for everyone. this is not a valid objection any more than saying "for as long as gravity is still in force" | [03:32] |
asciilifeform | and if it becomes generally known that, e.g., a Castle Moldenstein, contains a bunker full of goodies - there is the incentive for all-comers to soften the target. | [03:32] |
asciilifeform | the best castle wall is - distance. works even on nukes. | [03:33] |
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mircea_popescu | it's not as simple as that. | [03:35] |
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mircea_popescu | take any stirkingly beautiful woman walking into a bar. is she more likely or less likely to be hit on ? | [03:36] |
asciilifeform | point, yes | [03:36] |
mircea_popescu | any supermodel material chick will tell you nobody dares, on the assumption. | [03:36] |
mircea_popescu | so, some may try to soften the target, which allows the target to populate the road towards it with heads on pikes. | [03:36] |
mircea_popescu | which is the point of a "justice system" in the first place. | [03:36] |
mircea_popescu | overall, these would be "softeners" work as hardeners and are quite useful. | [03:37] |
asciilifeform | there are folks (in usa) working on this variant as we speak. the ones that succeed and aren't provocateur shills - we'll know because none of them are on the net. | [03:37] |
mircea_popescu | and which is why it's so important to get the message loud and clear to any bureaucrat anywhere, that if it comes to war, and we win, he will hang. | [03:38] |
mircea_popescu | no questions asked, and his children will be raped for the public record. | [03:38] |
asciilifeform | if this happens - it'll be a historic first, afaik. | [03:38] |
asciilifeform | ussr, for instance, did no such thing when germany lost. | [03:38] |
mircea_popescu | ussr isn't remembered for having been led by the smartest people ever. | [03:39] |
asciilifeform | how does one say 'приспособленец' in english ? | [03:39] |
asciilifeform | that's who most of the muppets in question are | [03:39] |
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mircea_popescu | but yes, the "no historical precedent" is what the bureaucrat instinctively answers | [03:40] |
mircea_popescu | it was on display earlier in this very chan. | [03:40] |
asciilifeform | naturally. | [03:40] |
mircea_popescu | here's a thought : everything that has historical precendent now didn't originally. | [03:40] |
asciilifeform | led by the smartest people ever << aye. witness that there are 'ukrainians' alive. | [03:40] |
mircea_popescu | on the strenght of the zero one infinity rule alone, and of the banal observation that bitcoin also has no historical precendent, it seems... unwise to bet that 1 is the lucky number. | [03:41] |
mircea_popescu | infinity seems infinitely more likely. | [03:41] |
asciilifeform | inventions - happen. | [03:41] |
asciilifeform | seems like we've this one nailed down. now, implementation... 'exercise for alert reader.' | [03:42] |
[]bot | Bet created: "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ | [03:43] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform it will probably come down to "you're not in the wot, and so therefore may not claim to own property or pretend to sue anyone" | [03:43] |
mircea_popescu | problem solved. | [03:43] |
mircea_popescu | "your negative rating in the wot means you can be killed by anyone and nobody'll care or do anything about it" | [03:44] |
mircea_popescu | now try and argue why it's not really fair that you're negrated because some major players didn't like your early anti-bitcoin involvement. | [03:45] |
mircea_popescu | xmj experienced live a tiny case study of this general principle, originally. | [03:45] |
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[]bot | Bet placed: 3.35069497 BTC for No on "BTC tops all time high before Christmas" http://bitbet.us/bet/1033/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 3.45069497 BTC. Current weight: 99,995. | [03:51] |
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[]bot | Bet created: "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/ | [04:04] |
asciilifeform | killed by anyone << aha - 'homo sacer' | [04:06] |
[]bot | Bet created: "Any DERP to bite it" http://bitbet.us/bet/1035/ | [04:06] |
mircea_popescu | decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property << that';s maybe going a little far. but the right to quash any action of anyone involving that land is germane. | [04:07] |
mircea_popescu | (you wouldn't be able to arrest anyone, but you would be able to void any application for a warrant) | [04:07] |
[]bot | Bet created: "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ | [04:07] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away << this argument is flawed in the following way : for he who is repulsed by war, this holds true. for he who however enjoys war, no payment is necessary. | [04:08] |
mircea_popescu | the relevant quote is in http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ : | [04:08] |
assbot | A very unfair perspective. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. | [04:08] |
asciilifeform | if like war - straight to war. | [04:08] |
mircea_popescu | There isn’t, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active. If you’re not prepared and absolutely willing to spend any amount of time up to the entire rest of your life seeking out and butchering leeches with only the satifaction of well applied, excruciating cruelty as your reward, you’re not made for this world and you won’t long have a place | [04:08] |
mircea_popescu | in it. This can’t be delegated, it’s a personal thing. Like citizenship. Like nationality. The only nation immune to the fate of Rhodesia is a nation of that kind of people, living in that kind of world. | [04:08] |
mircea_popescu | and it links quite well into "what would the devil have to pay you for you to love him". | [04:09] |
mircea_popescu | if you don't like living, you can't be paid to live. | [04:09] |
mircea_popescu | if you like living, pay is not really a relevant consideration. | [04:09] |
asciilifeform | but notice that active players in a war rarely occupy themselves with hiding valuables | [04:09] |
mircea_popescu | quite. | [04:09] |
mircea_popescu | because the fetish of value is not value | [04:09] |
mircea_popescu | and people who like to live have enough sense to understand this difference. | [04:09] |
asciilifeform | hold territory - sure. impale enemies - yes. bury treasure - why ? | [04:09] |
asciilifeform | hence the sea capsule example. for some classes of object (nuke?) this might be cost-effective storage. | [04:10] |
asciilifeform | (free up the men normally guarding for other pursuits; replace with king neptune, who can't be bribed and doesn't sleep) | [04:11] |
mircea_popescu | kinda what the nuclear subs are anyway. | [04:11] |
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asciilifeform | yes. but those have engines, men, cost more. | [04:12] |
asciilifeform | sea capsule is just a gedankenexperiment (though, i'm told, u.s. navy has insisted on actually trying.) i'm not altogether convinced that, properly carried out, it is cheaper than 'graveyard orbit' | [04:13] |
mircea_popescu | not easy evaluating what such things cost. | [04:24] |
[]bot | Bet placed: 2.5 BTC for No on "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ Odds: 2(Y):98(N) by coin, 2(Y):98(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.6 BTC. Current weight: 99,988. | [04:24] |
decimation | re: allodial title: I suppose with reference to how it was practiced in medieval England, the king's agents could be on your property on business which has the mutual consent of the king and his lords | [04:25] |
asciilifeform | i did tally up the cost, but the first anything naturally - expensive. | [04:25] |
decimation | re:safe deposit box, my understanding is that these are the terms all banks in the us give for such things | [04:25] |
asciilifeform | drowning a box of strange in the atlantic is a considerably quieter operation than launching a rocket, however. so perhaps it wins. | [04:25] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6334 @ 0.0008534 = 5.4054 BTC [+] | [04:25] |
mircea_popescu | decimation it's complicated, but in general property is the bane of human existence, so any absolute property has the potential to be absolutely murderous. | [04:25] |
mircea_popescu | (look at what happened when people thought the church is a people, started donating a little to it and inadvertently created the largest landholder because unlike them, thge church didn;t die regularly) | [04:26] |
decimation | I'm thinking of the mongols' advantage over the static empires of the east | [04:26] |
asciilifeform | decimation: the point of the bank box story is that it was entirely unclear to me wtf is the very point of such a thing, given the caveats | [04:26] |
decimation | asciilifeform: yeah I think the main point is that you might store papers and things that would be moderately annoying to replace in case of fire | [04:27] |
decimation | certainly nothing of 'value' | [04:27] |
asciilifeform | decimation: esp. since the one and only event that could reasonably be insured against - contents present at logged date N and absent on opening N+k - wasn't. | [04:27] |
decimation | well I think those terms are 'aspirational' - it goes to the arbitration conversation from a few weeks ago. everyone wants a click-wrap eula that holds them immune from any liability | [04:28] |
asciilifeform | implication, to me, was - if you're happy with the box, take your goodies and post them straight to the enemy - at least then you'll know where they are. | [04:29] |
decimation | heh yeah agreed, especially if the 'value' of those items was simply the information on the documents | [04:30] |
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decimation | re: gult's gulch << I find it amusing that folks who supposedly value 'self-reliance' and 'liberty' are unable to actually fly to chile and buy some land for themselves, it can't be that hard for a person with means & brains | [04:31] |
asciilifeform | decimation: see mircea_popescu's point earlier | [04:32] |
asciilifeform | decimation: in usa, people have contracted the disease of thinking that money can substitute for everything, including brain and balls | [04:32] |
mircea_popescu | [04:32] | |
asciilifeform | divorce << probably the worst possible use of a bank box in usa. other tidbit in the contract was that the bank will immediately impound any box against whose owner there are civil proceedings | [04:33] |
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decimation | in which case the courts will hand whatever valubles to the woman, 'to support the children' | [04:33] |
mircea_popescu | [04:33] | |
mircea_popescu | this is what fucking moral hazard means, incidentally. | [04:33] |
asciilifeform | i can hardly picture a dumber hiding place then a container in a public place with your name on it. | [04:34] |
mircea_popescu | ok, so no divorce, no flood http://www.cnbc.com/id/49972188 | [04:34] |
mircea_popescu | fire seems the only reason left :p | [04:34] |
asciilifeform | fire was also excluded. | [04:35] |
asciilifeform | 0 liability for bank. | [04:35] |
mircea_popescu | seeing how supermarkets also offer lockable containers on the same premise as banks do | [04:36] |
mircea_popescu | it seems to me it's time to go down on sam's club for acting like a bank w/o a license. | [04:36] |
asciilifeform | upon reading of that contract, i came to inescapable conclusion that the box thing is an active chump-magnet rather than simply a poor deal. | [04:37] |
mircea_popescu | basically, it's the living wage embodied. | [04:38] |
mircea_popescu | everyone wants to be paid a rent for existing | [04:38] |
mircea_popescu | banks not exluded. | [04:38] |
The20YearIRCloud | safe deposit boxes? | [04:38] |
asciilifeform | The20YearIRCloud: them. | [04:39] |
The20YearIRCloud | Around here, most use coffee cans buried. Now you can go to a store and get a "underground safe" | [04:39] |
decimation | let me look at my terms... yep, it excludes fire, explosion, intense heat, smoke, water (including fire suppression system) building collapse, terrorism, war, intentional destructive acts, or failures of electrical, mechanical, plumbing or structural systems, or for actions caused by any person | [04:39] |
asciilifeform | The20YearIRCloud: field day for the folks with ground-penetrating radar. | [04:39] |
asciilifeform | (not to be confused with 'mine detector' that every kid owns) | [04:39] |
asciilifeform | decimation: my particular one even mentioned failure of the vault locks. | [04:40] |
mircea_popescu | lol | [04:40] |
mircea_popescu | hahaahah | [04:40] |
mircea_popescu | dudes you gotta get out of the sticks, srsly. | [04:40] |
The20YearIRCloud | I keep looking for GPR so i can take it to properties/estates I buy out | [04:41] |
The20YearIRCloud | Once in a while I get the chance to buy a un-touched estate - Kids have no interest or are out of state, a trustee locks the property up and you bid on the real estate + all contents | [04:42] |
asciilifeform | get out of the sticks << all of us in the sticks - are there for reasons. | [04:42] |
asciilifeform | just like the other wretches stuck therein | [04:42] |
decimation | The20YearIRCloud: yeah that's probably not a bad idea, radar would also find unpleasant surprises that are buried | [04:42] |
The20YearIRCloud | Such as? | [04:42] |
asciilifeform | decimation: the instrument in question is no military secret of any kind. contact a firm that lays pipes. | [04:43] |
asciilifeform | or - build own. | [04:43] |
mircea_popescu | [04:43] | |
The20YearIRCloud | I don't know that they can be built, the costs were exorbant for non-military types | [04:43] |
asciilifeform | incidentally, if burial is recent, a searcher can use 'nazi method' | [04:44] |
The20YearIRCloud | and the thing is, for the most part the world is a big big place and GPR is very limited in what it can do | [04:44] |
asciilifeform | that is, pour water, see how quickly it absorbs | [04:44] |
decimation | The20YearIRCloud: barrels of toxic waste? | [04:44] |
The20YearIRCloud | Or mason jars full of old coins :D | [04:44] |
mircea_popescu | The20YearIRCloud here's an exercise for you. today you find in a yard 1k coins of 10 grams each, minted 1750. | [04:45] |
asciilifeform | when digging my garden (moved out of microscopic flat in late may, into a rented house) i found intact glass bottles, with caps on. appear to contain decades-old 'coca cola.' | [04:45] |
mircea_popescu | how much is this find worth in dollars ? | [04:45] |
mircea_popescu | (gold coins, i mean) | [04:46] |
The20YearIRCloud | One guy found around $200k in his back yard in my area | [04:46] |
decimation | there was this story last year: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-buried-california-gold-coins-auction-20140528-story.html | [04:46] |
asciilifeform | how much he kept from the 200 ? | [04:46] |
assbot | Rare gold coins buried in California hit market; one fetches $15,000 - LA Times | [04:46] |
The20YearIRCloud | Depends on who minted them and the composition :D | [04:46] |
asciilifeform | how much the crown took; how much - auctioneers | [04:46] |
The20YearIRCloud | Even in the mid 1700s the quality of gold coins ranged from 50% to 92.5% | [04:47] |
The20YearIRCloud | $15k isn't much for a 'rare gold coin' | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | The20YearIRCloud how much did he get to buy beer for ? | [04:47] |
asciilifeform | plus such finds are generally sold for numismatic value, and not as bullion | [04:47] |
asciilifeform | so anyone's guess | [04:47] |
decimation | The20YearIRCloud: that was one coin out of 1400 | [04:47] |
mircea_popescu | (in general your take is about the same as if publishing a book : about 5 to 10% after govt, agent, editor etc is done raping you) | [04:47] |
The20YearIRCloud | But usually the sensationalist media takes the biggest/best one to start it off with | [04:47] |
decimation | :The so-called Saddle Ridge Hoard, made up of denominations of $5, $10 and $20, could bring in $10 million when the sale is all said and done, with several pieces expected to command prices as high as $1 million, experts say." | [04:47] |
The20YearIRCloud | heck we had a local auctioneer do one guy's coin collection, the whole collection fit on a few small tables and sold for $350k | [04:48] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: and this isn't even considering the variant with spurious lawsuits | [04:48] |
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mircea_popescu | indeed. | [04:48] |
decimation | one wonders about the potential 'laundry' being done off of such a rich stash | [04:48] |
asciilifeform | for instance, IANAL, but i can easily picture, e.g, a landlord, arguing 'mineral rights' on the coins. | [04:48] |
asciilifeform | or - to make life more interesting - let's say that you find a sealed crate of kalashes, in cosmoline, rather than coins. | [04:49] |
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decimation | or barrels of toxic waste | [04:49] |
asciilifeform | or 'mustard gas' - as happened in early 2000s near an embassy in d.c. | [04:50] |
decimation | heh didn't hear about that til now http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/jan99/mustard24.htm | [04:50] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform ah that's where saddam was keeping his chem weapons ? | [04:50] |
asciilifeform | worth what? plenty. liquidate it? more likely, your organs will be sold to pay for it carted away | [04:50] |
mircea_popescu | o wait, it wasn't him. it was bush that hung for this | [04:51] |
asciilifeform | lol | [04:51] |
The20YearIRCloud | If I find a box of AKs here in the US there's nothing to do but leap for joy | [04:51] |
decimation | "Army officials say the canisters, if they exist, do not pose a threat to the affluent Spring Valley neighborhood as long as they remain undisturbed." << "it's okay for you" | [04:51] |
asciilifeform | The20YearIRCloud: afaik+ianal - it depends where in usa. | [04:51] |
The20YearIRCloud | Theoretically it'd be possible to sell them in any state if you take the right steps | [04:52] |
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The20YearIRCloud | if they're real-deal AKs you just demill the reciever, then the rest can be sold | [04:52] |
asciilifeform | if they're the real thing (full auto) - you're probably bankrupt just staying out of court | [04:52] |
asciilifeform | sold as scrap, yes. | [04:52] |
The20YearIRCloud | if they're semi autos, they can be sold to out of state | [04:52] |
The20YearIRCloud | Scrap = Worth $300-$3000 depending on make | [04:52] |
asciilifeform | to go back to the example with coins - you're probably safe if you melt them down and sell by gram | [04:53] |
decimation | start stashing 7.62 ammo and raise army | [04:53] |
The20YearIRCloud | The serial numbered portion is the only part essentially that's illegal | [04:53] |
asciilifeform | but this destroys most of the value of the find | [04:53] |
asciilifeform | so we're no longer answering the question of what the find per se is worth, in that case. | [04:53] |
The20YearIRCloud | With regards to coins, you only need to avoid the very, very limited types that are assumed to be stolen from the mint | [04:53] |
asciilifeform | eventually, the soviet denouement is that all precious metal is presumed 'stolen from mint.' | [04:54] |
The20YearIRCloud | Other than that, it's pretty easy to stay quiet, and slowly sell off the horde without signfiicant attention | [04:54] |
asciilifeform | other interesting thing about treasure is that, afaik, your tax liability officially begins when the shovel opens the box | [04:55] |
asciilifeform | see the many stories of lotto winners who take home mazeratis and then go bankrupt | [04:55] |
decimation | asciilifeform: brings to mind the play quoted by Mr. Yarvin where the kulak is found guilty of hording foreign currency in basement | [04:55] |
asciilifeform | khruschev turned this into a hanging offense. retroactively. | [04:56] |
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asciilifeform | (gold, rather than foreign currency, in that case, but applied across the board) | [04:56] |
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The20YearIRCloud | In the us , gold hording could be jailable, but silver hording was encouraged | [04:58] |
The20YearIRCloud | speaking of the 30s-50s | [04:58] |
asciilifeform | silver, at the time, (and largely still today) being primarily an industrial metal - the supply was already safely corralled. | [04:58] |
decimation | yeah back in the early 1900's the whole idea of the 'silver dollar' was the precursor to the modern bezzle | [04:59] |
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The20YearIRCloud | Us silver coin production was astronomical | [04:59] |
decimation | after 'backing' your currency with relatively worthless metal, the next logical step being to 'back' it with nothing it all | [05:00] |
asciilifeform | they occasionally turn up in loose change even now. | [05:00] |
decimation | silver makes excellent electrical conductors though. | [05:00] |
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asciilifeform | decimation: understand why it is rarely used as such. | [05:01] |
The20YearIRCloud | Right now it's about 1:10,000 in dimes, and about 1:25,000 in quarters | [05:01] |
asciilifeform | (while gold is king in all fine electronics) | [05:01] |
The20YearIRCloud | and around 1:1,000 from halves | [05:01] |
asciilifeform | oxidation. | [05:01] |
decimation | asciilifeform: yeah oxidation, terrible contacts | [05:01] |
decimation | gold however... | [05:01] |
decimation | gold actually has worse conductance than copper, but it doesn't oxidize | [05:02] |
asciilifeform | usually the absolute conductivity isn't critical. resistance to corrosion and heat conductivity - is. | [05:03] |
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asciilifeform | copper plated with gold is more or less 'best of worlds' | [05:03] |
The20YearIRCloud | Well, considering how little of the connection is used for the gold, it makes plenty of sense | [05:04] |
decimation | ie your ENIG boards | [05:04] |
The20YearIRCloud | gold connectors are usually large, so there's more conductivity (due to lower resistence) | [05:04] |
asciilifeform | and everybody's. | [05:04] |
The20YearIRCloud | Although theoretically silver wire with gold connectors would be the bee's knees | [05:05] |
decimation | gold is also used exclusively to connect pins to chip dies if I recall correctly | [05:05] |
The20YearIRCloud | That's also true | [05:05] |
asciilifeform | yes | [05:05] |
asciilifeform | gold also solders beautifully, because the coating remains smooth | [05:05] |
The20YearIRCloud | This is of course until we discover room-temperature superconductors, then it's all off | [05:05] |
The20YearIRCloud | The little bit of silver soldering I've done has been quite smooth too | [05:05] |
asciilifeform | room-temperature superconductors << unless we all perish in laser pistol duels. | [05:05] |
The20YearIRCloud | I just want my emdrive hovercar and hoverbike | [05:06] |
decimation | The20YearIRCloud: doubtful. in most circuitry heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical, and it's hard to imagine said superconductors would be better/cheaper to fabricate than the metals we are discussing | [05:06] |
The20YearIRCloud | Most of the data I'm seeing seems to support that once we reach that point, everyone gets their own airship | [05:06] |
The20YearIRCloud | I'm sure that's right, but i can dream | [05:06] |
asciilifeform | heat loss in conductors isn't terribly critical << consider why virtually all present-day applications of low temperature superconductors is in high-strength magnets. | [05:07] |
asciilifeform | because there - yes, critical. | [05:07] |
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asciilifeform | room temperature supercon is a box of surprises. | [05:07] |
asciilifeform | e.g., home 'mri' scanner plus some fairly simple image processing. | [05:07] |
asciilifeform | result - no rich man need die from most cancers. | [05:08] |
decimation | I think there are some cold superconductors used in new york to move lots of electricity through tight spaces too: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/the-smarter-grid/superconductors-enter-commercial-utility-service | [05:08] |
assbot | Superconductors Enter Commercial Utility Service - IEEE Spectrum | [05:08] |
asciilifeform | don't shoot a man with lead and gunpowder, shoot him with pocket railgun on watch battery - classier. | [05:08] |
The20YearIRCloud | we' | [05:09] |
asciilifeform | (bonus: shoot with the battery) | [05:09] |
The20YearIRCloud | We have been very much on the upswing concerning superconductors. 50 years ago you had to be near absolute zero, now you can do it at like -200c | [05:09] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00085789 = 6.4342 BTC [+] | [05:09] |
asciilifeform | al schwarts published a possible recipe for room temperature supercon - afaik, it was ignored. | [05:09] |
asciilifeform | (or in use by chicoms - like his certain other creations) | [05:10] |
asciilifeform | (which others? | [05:10] |
asciilifeform | !s eotvos | [05:10] |
assbot | 2 results for 'eotvos' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=eotvos | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | ) | [05:11] |
The20YearIRCloud | is he the emdrive guy? | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | no. | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | his products - work. | [05:11] |
The20YearIRCloud | Emdrive seems to work too | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | in the sense that podkletnov's drive 'worked.' | [05:11] |
asciilifeform | (emdrive, not schwartz) | [05:12] |
The20YearIRCloud | It's going to JPL for testing, which is a pretty darn good sign as to it working | [05:12] |
asciilifeform | as did podkletnov's, afaik. | [05:12] |
The20YearIRCloud | And from the papers I've seen, it doesn't seem to be signfiicantly more different than the theory behind VASMIR, and NASA was all over that 15 years ago | [05:13] |
asciilifeform | nasa is happy to fund every perpetual-motion crank on the planet - but if you're an industrial organic chemist with a history of rocking the boat - forget it. | [05:13] |
asciilifeform | vasmir doesn't violate newton's 3rd. | [05:14] |
The20YearIRCloud | neither does the emdrive | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | if you ask any physics crank, his machines never violate physical law | [05:14] |
The20YearIRCloud | and in the case of emdrive as well, it's signfiicantly more efficient than ion drives, but not absurdly so | [05:14] |
asciilifeform | there's always an 'imaginary particle' involved | [05:14] |
The20YearIRCloud | And it, just like ion drives, both would benefit amazingly well by room conducting superconductors | [05:14] |
assbot | AMAZING COMPANY! | [05:15] |
The20YearIRCloud | Like quantum entanglement? | [05:15] |
asciilifeform | what classical law does it violate? | [05:15] |
asciilifeform | understand, we'd all love a working perpetuum mobile or reactionless thruster. | [05:16] |
The20YearIRCloud | I'd have to find the papers, but 30-40 years ago it was supposed to violate several principals | [05:16] |
asciilifeform | but the folks involved with 'emdrive' have a rich history of fraud (usg and principals both) | [05:17] |
The20YearIRCloud | And now, peer reviewed studies seem to come out every few months continaully supporting entanglement | [05:17] |
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decimation | asciilifeform: it seems to me that an Eötvös balance would be pretty straightforward to build | [05:17] |
asciilifeform | decimation: dig the log | [05:17] |
asciilifeform | decimation: we came up with a setup that didn't require eotvos balance | [05:17] |
The20YearIRCloud | And harold white is a con too? | [05:18] |
asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772706 | [05:18] |
assbot | Logged on 27-07-2014 19:05:02; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in 2010 i concocted a variant of the test that could be carried out for approx. 50k USD, from scratch. schwartz answered that, in his estimation, the test would work to spec, but results would not be accepted by the field unless carried out on one of the two existing eotvos balances. one - adelberger's, one - chicom. | [05:18] |
asciilifeform | The20YearIRCloud: no need to be a con man in the usual sense to acquiesce to usg SOP. | [05:19] |
asciilifeform | if you want to know what test - bring schwartz out of his hidey hole, wherever it is, and ask him. he enjoys explaining it, me - it just depresses | [05:20] |
decimation | But according to wikipedia, it appears that the Eötvös balance is some balls, a rod, some string, and some mirrors | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | if you want the needed accuracy - it's rather more complicated. | [05:21] |
decimation | okay that makes sense | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | (atmosphere of controlled temperature, pressure - and, more importantly, provenance) | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | concept of 'provenance' is key here | [05:21] |
asciilifeform | i recall mircea_popescu even used this tale as an example in an essay | [05:21] |
decimation | as in, ensuring that all of the masses can be traced to some standard, etc? | [05:22] |
asciilifeform | not only standard, but as agreed upon by all pertinent professionals | [05:22] |
asciilifeform | including the set that want schwartz to die in a fire | [05:22] |
asciilifeform | (he nearly managed it once) | [05:22] |
asciilifeform | (30+% 3rd deg. burns) | [05:23] |
decimation | wow, that sucks. metrology is it's own weird little world | [05:23] |
asciilifeform | if i were to sell a few extra organs, i could run the 50k variant of the experiment. and i'd go to my grave knowing that equivalence principle can be violated. but that'd be all. | [05:23] |
asciilifeform | it won't: 'count.' | [05:24] |
decimation | I called up NIST a few weeks ago, asked them how much it would cost to measure the phase noise of an oscillator. They said it would only cost their time, which would come to about $10k! for a morning session | [05:24] |
asciilifeform | schwartz is one of the very few people i know of whose problem cannot be solved with money per se. | [05:24] |
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asciilifeform | he could, potentially, upgrade to rich pariah instead of modestly wealthy pariah | [05:25] |
asciilifeform | but that'd be it. | [05:25] |
decimation | well, mircea's theory is that musical tastes randomly change with time & entropy, the same is true for academic fashions | [05:26] |
asciilifeform | decimation: there's also other factors. | [05:27] |
decimation | one wonders which forgotten scientist will be recorded by history while official science is resigned to the dustbin | [05:27] |
asciilifeform | decimation: adelberger, for example, would have to perform seppuku - and all of his students, and their students | [05:27] |
asciilifeform | (if schwartz were to be permitted to carry out his experiment, and obtained a positive result) | [05:28] |
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asciilifeform | understand that the effect in question, even if it turns out to work as herr schwartz predicted, doesn't yield an 'antigravity jetpack' | [05:29] |
asciilifeform | it exists - if exists - somewhere after the 8th decimal. | [05:29] |
asciilifeform | but to even begin the kind of work it would take to 'technologize', is an investment that no one would remotely contemplate without the kind of proof that can only be obtained after his enemies were to give in. | [05:30] |
decimation | yeah but it would have implications for relativity theory apparently | [05:30] |
asciilifeform | or a few centuries after we've all died. | [05:30] |
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decimation | 'how much would you have to pay your enemies not to crush you in your moment of need' | [05:30] |
asciilifeform | this, as i understand, is why schwartz never made any attempt to raise funding | [05:31] |
asciilifeform | he's a clever enough fellow to understand that this would cement his already unenviable position | [05:31] |
asciilifeform | regardless of the outcome of the experiment, he'd end up seen just like the fellow who opened the 'esp instutute' | [05:32] |
asciilifeform | *institute | [05:32] |
asciilifeform | you can't pay your enemies to die. | [05:33] |
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asciilifeform | if ussr were alive, perhaps he'd have defected. | [05:33] |
asciilifeform | but i suspect he'd sooner fellate his 'magnum.' | [05:33] |
asciilifeform | but this is the very problem that multiple kingdoms one can defect to is the only known solution. | [05:34] |
asciilifeform | see galileo & florence. | [05:34] |
asciilifeform | but they have to be actual sovereign kingdoms - not muppet shows. | [05:34] |
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asciilifeform | and - they have to give a damn. | [05:35] |
decimation | yeah this connects with our discussion the other day about the collapse of the ussr being terrible for usg | [05:36] |
asciilifeform | if i were, e.g, mircea_popescu, and gave a damn, i'd offer schwartz xxxx btc. half to show up here, half after he explains himself. | [05:36] |
asciilifeform | but poor s. apparently went 'full perelman mode' and doesn't write back any more. | [05:37] |
asciilifeform | (how to know that schwartz (or taleb, or...) collects 'prize' rather than usg stooge with a shannonizer and irc connection - exercise for alert reader.) | [05:37] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29650 @ 0.00085641 = 25.3926 BTC [-] {2} | [05:38] |
asciilifeform | the most i can offer to interested readers is repeat of mircea_popescu's algorithm 'have sex - with people, do business - with keys.' | [05:38] |
decimation | “I don't even have an E-mail address. I have reached an age where my main purpose is not to receive messages,” Eco said at a party in his honor at the University Club of Chicago. | [05:38] |
decimation | http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/06/26/of-eco-and-e-mail | [05:38] |
assbot | Of Eco And E-mail - The New Yorker | [05:38] |
asciilifeform | this is called perelman mode. | [05:38] |
asciilifeform | partial, if you like. full perelman is when you haven't a post address either. | [05:39] |
asciilifeform | !s perelman | [05:39] |
assbot | 3 results for 'perelman' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=perelman | [05:39] |
decimation | perelman turned down the fields medal right? | [05:39] |
asciilifeform | not only. | [05:39] |
asciilifeform | he also turned down, if i recall, government pensions, interviews with journawhores, all of it. | [05:40] |
asciilifeform | lives somewhere in russian north, among the trees. | [05:40] |
asciilifeform | go find him. | [05:40] |
decimation | probably with these folks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_People:_A_Year_in_the_Taiga | [05:40] |
assbot | Happy People: A Year in the Taiga - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | [05:40] |
asciilifeform | if he's feeling charitable, he might leave archaeologists a box of notebooks the ants won't eat. | [05:41] |
asciilifeform | (as, e.g, k. f. gauss did) | [05:41] |
asciilifeform | for all we know - perelman was eaten by local fauna, or fellated his nagant | [05:42] |
asciilifeform | but once in a while you hear that some busybody found him and told 'fuck off, can't answer for your safety if i see you again.' | [05:43] |
decimation | it seems very few extreme math geniuses find this world a 'habitable' place | [05:43] |
asciilifeform | perelman had the unfortunate combination of math and iron balls. he would not 'play ball'. | [05:44] |
The20YearIRCloud | who is eco again? | [05:44] |
decimation | another way of looking at it: he's decided to hold 'allodial title' over his mind, the only place that is really possible in this world for mere humans | [05:44] |
asciilifeform | umberto eco. | [05:44] |
asciilifeform | decimation: this. | [05:44] |
decimation | he wrote 'the name of the rose' among other things, ascii quotes it from time to time | [05:45] |
The20YearIRCloud | i've been off reading physics articles trying to grasp things and lost the conversation | [05:45] |
asciilifeform | decimation: the only work of that man i found readable | [05:45] |
asciilifeform | as i understand - he caught a memetic virus - 'postmodernism' - and might as well have contracted 'mad cow'. | [05:46] |
asciilifeform | (eco, not perelman) | [05:46] |
asciilifeform | same thing happened to russian mega-author v. pelevin | [05:46] |
asciilifeform | the action of the 'virus' was evident in his early work, but it got worse. | [05:47] |
decimation | it is probably terrible to become an object of some fad among elites today | [05:47] |
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asciilifeform | decimation: eco, pelevin, others - were clever chaps; understood that if you suck cock, you become a cock-sucker, even if 'your heart isn't in it' at first | [05:47] |
asciilifeform | schneier, i'm certain, understood | [05:48] |
asciilifeform | can carry on the list, but why. | [05:48] |
asciilifeform | we can all write the list. | [05:48] |
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decimation | probably the only real defense is to go 'full perelman' | [05:49] |
asciilifeform | less of a defense and more like slow-motion seppuku | [05:49] |
asciilifeform | this, incidentally, is how science dies. | [05:50] |
The20YearIRCloud | because of the gubberment? | [05:50] |
asciilifeform | http://yarchive.net/physics/effete.html | [05:50] |
asciilifeform | nah. | [05:50] |
assbot | Becoming effete (Steven B. Harris) | [05:50] |
asciilifeform | usg 'science' is - scar tissue. | [05:51] |
decimation | 'this' being that 'science' becomes inhabitable for non-fraudulent scientists? | [05:51] |
asciilifeform | aye. | [05:51] |
decimation | I mean un-inhabitable | [05:51] |
asciilifeform | right | [05:51] |
The20YearIRCloud | so where do they go? | [05:52] |
asciilifeform | civilizations senesce and die - like people. | [05:52] |
asciilifeform | this is possibly the best-known fact about them. | [05:53] |
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decimation | that's a good-quality usenet rant | [05:54] |
asciilifeform | lots more where it came from. | [05:55] |
The20YearIRCloud | lol | [05:56] |
The20YearIRCloud | i'm trying to catch up and understand :D | [05:56] |
The20YearIRCloud | Darn my lack of understanding | [05:56] |
decimation | !s professor salary | [05:56] |
assbot | 1 results for 'professor salary' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=professor+salary | [05:56] |
decimation | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2014#451059 | [05:57] |
assbot | Logged on 21-01-2014 01:57:20; decimation: ?In 1890, professors salaries [at Amherst College] were $ 2,500, more than twenty times tuition. The step up from laborer to professor was immense, for the average wage earner in 1890 earned $425 a year. ? | [05:57] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13559 @ 0.00085789 = 11.6321 BTC [+] | [05:57] |
decimation | that explains some of the problem: the egalitarian mind-virus | [05:57] |
asciilifeform | decimation: can't fix with money. soviet professors rolled in cash (compared to most other occupations.) this just attracts poseurs. | [05:57] |
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asciilifeform | (just as you can't fix, e.g., old age, with money - here's another 'yarchive' nugget - http://yarchive.net/med/conspiracies.html) | [05:58] |
assbot | 404 Not Found | [05:58] |
asciilifeform | go to hell, arsebot, it's 'found' | [05:59] |
asciilifeform | point being - we don't know how to repair broken cultures. the best we know - is how to help them die. | [05:59] |
asciilifeform | re: professors: | [06:00] |
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asciilifeform | consider if you were to offer $maxint for antigrav device. | [06:00] |
asciilifeform | all the money in the world won't conjure into existence 'the rabbit out of a hat, unless said rabbit is already in the hat' | [06:01] |
asciilifeform | at least, not on a time scale you could put up with. | [06:01] |
decimation | yeah that's a good point. I think the money is less important than the relative status, which is less important than just getting people to defer to their betters quickly | [06:01] |
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asciilifeform | decimation: reward with status - get usg academics. | [06:03] |
asciilifeform | you get what you optimize for - plus exhaust. | [06:03] |
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asciilifeform | there is probably a 'perelman' within driving distance of where you (any you) live. but he's almost certainly surrendered and sucking state cock (and perelman no longer) - or is occupied with the minutiae of physical survival | [06:07] |
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asciilifeform | BingoBoingo, perhaps, is working on the problem of building a hard disk that survives several centuries of exposure in the wilderness | [06:08] |
asciilifeform | and if he isn't, he should be | [06:08] |
decimation | etch binary on rocks? | [06:08] |
asciilifeform | latency's killer. | [06:09] |
decimation | heh | [06:09] |
asciilifeform | state of the art is probably (cloth-based) paper under inert gas. | [06:09] |
decimation | asciilifeform: does your nexus 10 provide reasonably close 'paper-like' screen presentation? | [06:11] |
asciilifeform | decimation: i trim all the border whitespace and get approx. the same 'paper' size as the original document | [06:11] |
asciilifeform | so in that sense yes | [06:11] |
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asciilifeform | (as if this needed repeating - but for completeness - don't keep sensitive non-public material on 'nexus' or similar machine.) | [06:12] |
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decimation | assuming 1 inch margins that sounds about right | [06:12] |
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decimation | encrypted blobs are probably okay | [06:13] |
decimation | no keys though | [06:13] |
asciilifeform | solely ones you'd consent to have transmitted by radio across the planet | [06:13] |
decimation | right. | [06:13] |
asciilifeform | it is - a toy. | [06:14] |
* | asciilifeform owns a number of toys, like other people | [06:14] |
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The20YearIRCloud | Did I tell you guys that the bank approved the series of loans for RentalStarter? | [06:14] |
decimation | do you have any non-toy computers aside from your symbolics machines? | [06:14] |
asciilifeform | depends how you cut it | [06:14] |
decimation | good job The20YearIRCloud! | [06:14] |
The20YearIRCloud | Big thing is the terms were superior to what I expected, 5% vs 7%, and the ability to do 20yr fixed payback vs 15yr payback or adjustable rates | [06:15] |
* | asciilifeform organizes machines similarly to mircea_popescu | [06:15] |
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asciilifeform | The20YearIRCloud: almost certain that, given this, it doing anything but sitting on btc is a loss | [06:17] |
The20YearIRCloud | as in not utilizing available capital> | [06:18] |
asciilifeform | as in utilizing, to buy coin. | [06:18] |
decimation | that's true, if btc is going to succeed, it is inevitable that it goes up several orders of magnitude in dollar price | [06:18] |
The20YearIRCloud | Yeah | [06:18] |
asciilifeform | someone (mircea_popescu?) suggested that, for so long as fiat long-term credit is available to anyone, this'll be the bullet that keeps killing it until dead. | [06:18] |
The20YearIRCloud | Which is worrysome to me, but then I do have an auto-buy going through on a regular basis, so i'm trying to diversify in multiple methods - Bitcoin, USD, Silver/Gold/Coins , guns, real estate | [06:19] |
The20YearIRCloud | hopefully between all that I'll personally be OK, but as far as the business is concerned, till bitcoin is a national currency and most workers get paid in it, it's gonna be hard for us to get truly involved in the BTC economy | [06:20] |
decimation | The20YearIRCloud: sounds reasonable. real financial lending will not take place in bitcoin until it becomes the 'new currency' | [06:21] |
The20YearIRCloud | And it's hard to judge when that will be, otherwise I do believe our model hedges well against USD collapse, and any major problems, while building enough capital and assets, should we have another downturn that we will be able to severely profit from it | [06:21] |
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peterl | The20YearIRCloud: so now you get to hold onto bitcoins and use loans to buy houses? | [06:32] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00086132 = 16.0636 BTC [+] | [06:37] |
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ben_vulpes | !t h rent | [07:01] |
assbot | [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00399999 / 0.00402843 / 0.00423999 (204 shares, 0.82179956 BTC), 7D: 0.00320001 / 0.00370607 / 0.00465000 (3085 shares, 11.43322802 BTC), 30D: 0.00320001 / 0.00402198 / 0.00478000 (9915 shares, 39.87789938 BTC) | [07:01] |
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mircea_popescu | wow i step out for one hour... | [07:27] |
mircea_popescu | !up Curious_George | [07:27] |
-assbot- | You voiced Curious_George for 30 minutes. | [07:27] |
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Curious_George | sup | [07:27] |
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mircea_popescu | nothing much. | [07:28] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform: kanzure: nah, those're plain old ruins <<< and this you know how ? :D | [07:30] |
mircea_popescu | The20YearIRCloud: With regards to coins, you only need to avoid the very, very limited types that are assumed to be stolen from the mint << it's only limited for now, and as a reflection of the coins actually physically found so far. as more juicy morcels make the beast salivate, they'll become less limited. | [07:32] |
mircea_popescu | decimation: yeah back in the early 1900's the whole idea of the 'silver dollar' was the precursor to the modern bezzle << not so clear cut, really. more like a power struggle between west and east. | [07:34] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: that's true, in that case the eastern bankers were all in favor of gold (as they didn't envision some gov't bank would be able to print infinite silver) | [07:34] |
mircea_popescu | amusingly, all the "buitres" scandal in argentina today is exactly reminiscent of midwestern and californian pro-silver aggitation in the 1880s | [07:35] |
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mircea_popescu | specifically, the "foreign interest" was putting forth gold standard to fleece the "hard working" "real" americans. | [07:35] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform: there's always an 'imaginary particle' involved <<< in phairness, this is how physics works all through. | [07:38] |
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mircea_popescu | decimation: okay that makes sense << what he means by provenance being that if you measure in argon and he measures in xenon, it's not directly obvious what the functions look like to verify if you got the same result and quantify the eventual differences. | [07:41] |
mircea_popescu | decimation: I called up NIST a few weeks ago, asked them how much it would cost to measure the phase noise of an oscillator. They said it would only cost their time, which would come to about $10k! for a morning session <<< in other words, "can only work if you have supply of bezzle dollars", ie, "only with scrip saying it's ok signed by stalin" | [07:42] |
decimation | yeah that sounds about right | [07:43] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform: if ussr were alive, perhaps he'd have defected. << a fine example of why the "one world, one fuhrer" delusion of government is unproductive. | [07:45] |
mircea_popescu | ah look, he says so the next line himself :p | [07:46] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform: (how to know that schwartz (or taleb, or...) collects 'prize' rather than usg stooge with a shannonizer and irc connection - exercise for alert reader.) <<< if you recall something sort-of like that was tried, except this "major prize" approach is flawed as you explain. so, better version was tried :) | [07:47] |
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decimation | heh "The city voters—especially German Americans—overwhelmingly rejected the free-silver cause out of conviction that it would lead to economic disaster, unemployment, and higher prices. The diversified farmers of the Midwest and East opposed it as well, but the cotton farmers in the South and the wheat farmers in the West were enthusiastic for free silver. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_silver | [07:55] |
assbot | Free silver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia | [07:55] |
decimation | yet another reason why the germans in the us had to be de-kulaked | [07:56] |
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asciilifeform | plain old ruins << re: the ones pictured in linked blog. though surprising quantities of goodies in some. | [08:38] |
asciilifeform | better version was tried << gurlz pulsating on camera ? | [08:40] |
asciilifeform | or was there another 'try' | [08:40] |
asciilifeform | re: provenance & physics thread - anyone unfamiliar with the story of blondlot and 'n-rays' is invited to read about it. | [08:44] |
asciilifeform | (for nontechnical types, klotz's 'diamond dealers and feather merchants' has an excellent basic account.) | [08:45] |
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asciilifeform | 'free silver' << the fiat camel's nose in the american tent. not sure how to avoid this conclusion. | [08:47] |
[]bot | Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/ Odds: 43(Y):57(N) by coin, 43(Y):57(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.13075596 BTC. Current weight: 99,516. | [08:49] |
asciilifeform | I don't know that they can be built << lol, anything that was built, can be built. | [08:51] |
asciilifeform | provenance << isn't about the differing principle of the proposed tester. it's about the fact experiment doesn't count if carried out wholly on apparatus constructed by a 'non-disinterested' party | [08:58] |
asciilifeform | and will never be replicated on a 'disinterested' apparatus because this means essentially all practicing 'physicists' get blondlot-ed. | [08:58] |
asciilifeform | this story concerned more than a quarrel between a weirdo chemist and the whole of usg/nato 'physics' | [09:01] |
asciilifeform | it's really a typical death-rattle of the civilization. | [09:01] |
asciilifeform | there isn't, as far as i understand, a 'fix'. | [09:02] |
asciilifeform | perhaps intelligent roaches or marmosets will carry out 'schwartz's' experiment after we're through. | [09:02] |
decimation | asciilifeform: is the death-rattle the gridlock caused by bureaucracy replacing science? | [09:04] |
asciilifeform | don't blame the murder on the maggots. | [09:04] |
asciilifeform | they just happen to eat corpses, it's in their job description. | [09:04] |
asciilifeform | there's not a 'ready-canned' answer for why rome bit it | [09:05] |
asciilifeform | why expect one - for us. | [09:05] |
asciilifeform | but to attribute death to the graveworms - is a mistake. | [09:05] |
decimation | decay from 'rule by men to the bureaucratic state was definitely on the list | [09:06] |
asciilifeform | symptom. | [09:06] |
asciilifeform | (of what? if we knew, there'd be at least a hypothetical pill.) | [09:06] |
asciilifeform | thus far all we know is that civilizations behave like ms-winblows boxes - encrusts with turdolade until grinds to a halt, then reboot. | [09:08] |
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RagnarDanneskjol | what do you assume to be the root cause ascii? (besides societal mental atrophy) | [09:09] |
decimation | heh turdolade. yeah I guess the bureaucracy really exploded with Diocletian, but things had already been going badly for at least a hundred years | [09:09] |
asciilifeform | RagnarDanneskjol: i don't regard it as a proven fact that there necessarily is a 'root cause.' | [09:10] |
decimation | plus the chinese bureaucracy lasted for hundreds of years per reboot cycle | [09:10] |
RagnarDanneskjol | well there must be some likely culprits | [09:10] |
asciilifeform | institutions of every kind decay in well-documented ways. | [09:11] |
decimation | one answer: wealth and power sow the seeds of their own destruction, in the avarice and sloth of the new generations | [09:11] |
asciilifeform | eventually immune system collapses, the proverbial 'eastern hordes water their horses in the rhine.' | [09:12] |
decimation | another answer: when power is passed to the new generation, it tends to be divided rather than concentrated - in the end the franchise is extended to every human and his dog, and no one is really in charge | [09:13] |
decimation | mongol hordes appear on the border - giving not one wit about the current power structure - and pillage as they see fit | [09:14] |
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mircea_popescu | asciilifeform i really don't think its as political as all that. | [09:15] |
asciilifeform | to stretch the metaphor a bit, sometimes the moribund get a stay of execution, when the horde grows terminally fat before it can reach the capital. | [09:15] |
mircea_popescu | decimation basically, it was a new immigrant vs old immigrant debate. the old guys had savings and wanted to keep them. the new guys had mortgages and wanted to get rid of them. | [09:16] |
asciilifeform | !s harpagon | [09:16] |
assbot | 2 results for 'harpagon' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=harpagon | [09:16] |
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mircea_popescu | no but srsly, i can see perfectly valid reasons to not trust measurements made by new guys on new tools. | [09:17] |
asciilifeform | very. | [09:17] |
mircea_popescu | for that matter, recall the story of the milikan pious fraud i think it was ? | [09:17] |
asciilifeform | this is why the tale should terrify people | [09:17] |
mircea_popescu | where the original measurement was wildly wrong, | [09:17] |
asciilifeform | because it's about death. | [09:17] |
asciilifeform | yes, that. | [09:17] |
mircea_popescu | and the subsequent ones didn't spread out but converged ? | [09:17] |
asciilifeform | correct. | [09:17] |
mircea_popescu | right. this was accidental, not the result of conspiraci, ie, political organising. | [09:17] |
asciilifeform | no organization in the usual sense needed. | [09:18] |
asciilifeform | forget who - used term 'prospiracy' | [09:18] |
asciilifeform | like, | [09:19] |
asciilifeform | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#814531 | [09:19] |
assbot | Logged on 29-08-2014 05:11:06; decimation: the thing is, Admiral McCain probably didn't have to issue any special instructions to 'finesse' the investigation, the investigators probably all thought it would be a brilliant plan | [09:19] |
mircea_popescu | [09:19] | |
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asciilifeform | thing is, nobody cancelled appetite for, e.g, death - 'mortido!' | [09:20] |
asciilifeform | but not channelled usefully. | [09:20] |
mircea_popescu | that seems to me a hollow analogy. | [09:20] |
mircea_popescu | there really isn't a "counterbalance" to libiod. | [09:20] |
asciilifeform | appetite for humiliation, i.e. risk ? | [09:21] |
mircea_popescu | (something needs to push rocks up in the air, and the space station too. what's needed to push them down ?) | [09:21] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform consider the life and deeds of gabrielle, a buxom blonde girl. | [09:21] |
mircea_popescu | when she's 16, she runs out of school (for which she risks a reprimand) and hides behind the bleachers to... kiss (for which she risks quite a lot of societal shunning) | [09:22] |
mircea_popescu | when she's 36 she follows the workplace rules. | [09:22] |
mircea_popescu | her appetite for humiliation has dwindled. | [09:22] |
asciilifeform | appetite - or opportunity. | [09:23] |
mircea_popescu | she is a "wiser woman" now. happily married now. at her place in life now. well... | [09:23] |
asciilifeform | aha empty carapace | [09:23] |
* | asciilifeform spotted a cicada in garden today, and thought of mircea_popescu's post about parenting | [09:23] |
mircea_popescu | society in general and civilisation in particular is predicated on making sense of the world, which readily reduces to avoiding being humiliated. this is fine and dandy until it actually works. | [09:24] |
mircea_popescu | but if you ever wondered why towards the end of an epoch art moves from classical to trollage... well... art is a sort of societal immune system. | [09:25] |
asciilifeform | i always use the term 'calmed down' for these people. starting from having played 'half life', where there is a scene of an einsteinesque white coated figure who gets an alien 'headcrab' jump on his head. it takes roots, he struggles for a while, then 'calms down' and ambles on as zombie. | [09:25] |
mircea_popescu | except the crab doesn't go on the head | [09:25] |
mircea_popescu | more like, on the cunt. | [09:25] |
asciilifeform | lol | [09:25] |
* | assbot gives voice to xmj | [09:25] |
xmj | moin. | [09:27] |
mircea_popescu | http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6738/33213654.183/0_a1ede_331c5f32_L.jpg << i like this one | [09:27] |
asciilifeform | lol, still on the trolley even. | [09:28] |
mircea_popescu | http://www.janesoceania.com/oceania_cult/Cargocultplane.jpg compareand contrast. | [09:28] |
decimation | is that a V1? | [09:29] |
mircea_popescu | there's no distinguishing sufficiently advanced tech from magic, nor sufficiently decayed tech from faith. | [09:29] |
asciilifeform | !b 1 | [09:29] |
assbot | Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0HCR5DM.txt ) | [09:29] |
mircea_popescu | decimation nah, soviet hardware | [09:31] |
mircea_popescu | http://lana-sator.livejournal.com/209537.html | [09:31] |
assbot | , , , ... 18+ - "" | [09:31] |
xmj | I think my brain just snowcrashed. | [09:31] |
asciilifeform | obligatory: | [09:32] |
asciilifeform | 'We understand automobiles. There are no homeopathic automobile repair shops, that try to repair your car by putting infinitesimal dilutions of rust in the gas tank. There are no automotive faith healers, who lay their hands on the hood and pray. People reserve such superstitions for things that they don’t understand very well, such as the human body… … Superstitions arise because we don’t understand. I | [09:32] |
asciilifeform | f this trend continues, we may soon see homeopathic computer repair. Perhaps it will consist of adding a virus to a program, deleting the virus, and then running the program. You may soon be able to take your laptop to a faith healer, who will lay his hands on the keyboard and pray for the recovery of the operating system. Is this the future of computing? Or can we instead build on the idea that a computer progr | [09:32] |
asciilifeform | am is a mathematical object that can be understood through logic?' | [09:32] |
mircea_popescu | xmj how's that go ? | [09:32] |
asciilifeform | -- lamport's 'The Future of Computing: Logic or Biology?' | [09:32] |
asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: linked post reveals that rocket is a 'size and mass model' (i.e. dummy.) | [09:33] |
mircea_popescu | asciilifeform i can attest the faith healing already happens, in those sad sad caves where middle aged women huddle to stroke their collective pretending to be part of civilisation. | [09:33] |
asciilifeform | happens also at computer shops, yes | [09:34] |
asciilifeform | or perhaps you meant those. | [09:34] |
mircea_popescu | govt offices, newspaper offices, phone pharms, i seen it everwhere. | [09:35] |
asciilifeform | 'Внутри более сохранившегося командного пункта разрушения изрядные, а обстановка мрачная - кто-то разодрал аппаратуру и жег кабели прямо на месте, отчего стены и потолки покрыты копотью' | [09:35] |
mircea_popescu | knew a camwhore who slept with her laptop because the one time she didn't it felt snubbed and wouldn't work right the whole day. | [09:35] |
decimation | except I was reading Dijkstra in "structured programming" and he wrote that it was hopeless to try to "prove" practical code. He did suggest that this is a reason for humility and simplicity. | [09:35] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00086242 = 14.3162 BTC [+] | [09:36] |
asciilifeform | 'in the better-preserved command post the destruction is substantial, and the atmosphere morose - someone tore apart the machinery, and burned the cables right where they lay - from which the walls and ceiling were covered in soot.' | [09:36] |
mircea_popescu | The20YearIRCloud: i've been off reading physics articles trying to grasp things and lost the conversation << should probably be the motto of b-a | [09:36] |
asciilifeform | why burned cables? i can say right now. copper dealer doesn't pay for rubber - only copper. | [09:36] |
mircea_popescu | obviously thieves yea | [09:36] |
mircea_popescu | decimation for simplicity at any rate. | [09:37] |
mircea_popescu | decimation: it is probably terrible to become an object of some fad among elites today << you know, i'm a poststructuralist jus' fine. | [09:37] |
mircea_popescu | is it evident ? | [09:37] |
asciilifeform | decimation: who listened to dijkstra. academics - good joke. programmers - ha. | [09:37] |
decimation | reminds me of teufelsberg: http://www.abandonedberlin.com/2010/06/teufelsberg-abandoned-spy-station.html | [09:38] |
assbot | Teufelsberg (Abandoned spy station) | Abandoned Berlin | [09:38] |
mircea_popescu | decimation: yeah that's a good point. I think the money is less important than the relative status, which is less important than just getting people to defer to their betters quickly << no, not quickly. painfully. | [09:42] |
mircea_popescu | that's the point there. | [09:42] |
mircea_popescu | the "no pain, no gain" equation holds all sorts of critical, unexpected applications. | [09:42] |
xmj | mircea_popescu: slept ~17h tonight. slept most of yesterday... (well, powernaps in IST airport and plane) | [09:42] |
mircea_popescu | maybe it's the tse tse | [09:42] |
decimation | mircea_popescu: hormesis: "it's okay for you (and society)" http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/220309.php | [09:44] |
assbot | High Altitude Boosts Longevity And Reduces Risk Of Dying Of Ischemic Heart Disease - Medical News Today | [09:44] |
mircea_popescu | "In one of the most comprehensive studies of its kind, researchers at the University of Colorado School of Medicine in partnership with the Harvard School of Global Health have found that people living at higher altitudes have a lower chance of dying from ischemic heart disease and tend to live longer than others." | [09:44] |
mircea_popescu | "experiment" studies people who already did live there. helpful o.O | [09:45] |
mircea_popescu | in other news, people living in africa get less sunstroke. | [09:45] |
asciilifeform | !s married grow taller | [09:45] |
assbot | 1 results for 'married grow taller' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=married+grow+taller | [09:45] |
mircea_popescu | "We all act as though we're immortal until we get sick, and then we | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | want the cure now! And when we don't get it, we look for a witch to | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | blame, because witch-hunting is something the human brain does | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | naturally. Certainly it naturally sucks at doing science; much | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | unnatural training is required for that. But gossiping and | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | witch-finding and crime-solving and conspiracy-theories -- that really | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | gets the heart going. I see it has yours going, when the science was | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | really boring! Which is to you say, you're a typical human female." | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | ouch. | [09:46] |
mircea_popescu | the typical woman female being ariana huffington. | [09:47] |
decimation | interestingly the western states that are bathed in radiation from the sun & uranium from the ground have the lowest cancer rates (yes there are confounders) http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/data/state.htm | [09:47] |
assbot | CDC - Cancer - Data and Statistics - Cancer Rates by State | [09:47] |
xmj | Women. | [09:47] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12595 @ 0.00086242 = 10.8622 BTC [+] | [09:48] |
asciilifeform | http://fotki.yandex.ru/next/users/haematique/album/150002/view/663491 << lol at double-stencil | [09:48] |
assbot | . | [09:48] |
xmj | To me, science comes naturally. | [09:48] |
xmj | But then.. | [09:48] |
xmj | http://www.iancommunity.org/cs/understanding_research/extreme_male_brain | [09:48] |
assbot | The "Extreme Male Brain": An Explanation for Autism? | Interactive Autism Network | [09:48] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22255 @ 0.00085578 = 19.0454 BTC [-] {2} | [09:49] |
asciilifeform | we all like to laugh at 'witch hunt' except - we have witches. who you gonna call. | [09:49] |
mircea_popescu | [09:50] | |
xmj | A great many friends, yes | [09:52] |
xmj | all on the autistic spectrum | [09:52] |
mircea_popescu | well, any of them actual scientists ? | [09:53] |
mircea_popescu | not aspiring, scientists-in-training, etc. | [09:53] |
xmj | most entrepreneurs | [09:53] |
mircea_popescu | yeah, well, maybe you shouldn't trust that too far then. | [09:54] |
xmj | yeah, well, maybe you have no idea what you're talking about :) | [09:54] |
mircea_popescu | how;s that work ? | [09:54] |
xmj | entrepreneurship pays more than research (postgrad) positions | [09:55] |
asciilifeform | what it even means, 'it comes naturally' | [09:55] |
asciilifeform | for instance, shitting comes naturally | [09:55] |
mircea_popescu | science comes easy to you according to yourself, some friends that are into business and this is somehow my problem ? | [09:55] |
asciilifeform | most people, if well fed, will produce the requisite pile of shit with very little active work on their part. | [09:55] |
xmj | you do not get it. | [09:55] |
asciilifeform | this means - comes naturally. | [09:55] |
mircea_popescu | yes, not getting "it" comes naturally to me. | [09:55] |
asciilifeform | xmj: so what kind of pile you produce? | [09:55] |
asciilifeform | sleep - also comes naturally. | [09:57] |
* | asciilifeform off to comes naturally | [09:57] |
* | decimation agrees, follows suit | [09:58] |
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xmj | note to self, ignore mircea_popescu on most any discussions as unhelpful | [10:01] |
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mircea_popescu | im very helpful according to most people i know! HELPING COMES NATURALLY TO ME | [10:18] |
* | RagnarDanneskjol wonders why help is expected during the course of normal discussion | [10:19] |
RagnarDanneskjol | http://topr.online.ucf.edu/index.php/Setting_Discussion_Expectations | [10:19] |
assbot | Setting Discussion Expectations - Pedagogical Repository | [10:19] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11850 @ 0.00085634 = 10.1476 BTC [+] | [10:33] |
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RagnarDanneskjol | https://people.csail.mit.edu/nickolai/papers/vandenhooff-versum.pdf | [10:41] |
RagnarDanneskjol | (VerSum: Verifiable Computations over Large Public Logs) | [10:41] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00086491 = 9.2545 BTC [+] {2} | [10:57] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13552 @ 0.00086527 = 11.7261 BTC [+] | [11:51] |
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RagnarDanneskjol | !up RagnarsBitch | [12:06] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5350 @ 0.00085962 = 4.599 BTC [-] | [12:21] |
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chetty | My dear,How are you? i am a banker in the bank, i get your contact from yahoo terrorist search.Reason,i am in need of your help as a foreigner i want to transfer an abandoned $15million to your account 40% for you while 60% for me please indicate your interest for more detail. | [12:33] |
mircea_popescu | lol moving up in the world. | [12:34] |
chetty | cheeky, starting off with my dear :P | [12:36] |
mircea_popescu | i think someone put "my dear" for "hello" in some sort of 1970s azn manual of english | [12:36] |
mircea_popescu | it's suspiciously too common. | [12:36] |
mircea_popescu | britishism | [12:37] |
* | assbot removes voice from RagnarsBitch | [12:37] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00085489 = 15.6445 BTC [-] {2} | [12:39] |
chetty | http://www.ruv.is/frett/fresh-eruption-north-of-bardarbunga-video | [12:46] |
assbot | Fresh eruption north of Bardarbunga -video | RV | [12:46] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15498 @ 0.00085352 = 13.2279 BTC [-] | [13:50] |
assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2852 @ 0.00085268 = 2.4318 BTC [-] | [13:53] |
mircea_popescu | hot stuff. | [13:59] |
assbot | [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2000 @ 0.00054999 = 1.1 BTC [+] {2} | [14:25] |
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mircea_popescu | ;;ticker | [14:37] |
gribble | Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 491.48, Best ask: 492.99, Bid-ask spread: 1.51000, Last trade: 493.01, 24 hour volume: 5792.89372358, 24 hour low: 484.95, 24 hour high: 505.12, 24 hour vwap: 496.502818151 | [14:37] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4112 @ 0.00085861 = 3.5306 BTC [+] | [15:19] |
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assbot | [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29600 @ 0.00086174 = 25.5075 BTC [+] {2} | [15:40] |
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penguirker | New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/minigame-smg-august-2014-statement/ | [15:49] |
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kakobrekla | dense log. nice. | [16:29] |
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mircea_popescu | stop being unhelpful kako :D | [17:29] |
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Category: Logs