Forum logs for 30 Jul 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
dorion: !!v B387D7AA9B230EA7C2A067E21775A5920912556053D15D707B2821651EC8FB8F [00:02]
deedbot: dorion paid BingoBoingo invoice 1 [00:02]
dorion: trinque thank you. I'd read it's meat operated, qr code over airgap iirc, but thought meat operation was only on outputs side. [00:03]
BingoBoingo: !!V E3734BF37CA97412FE9CA34DE99F241B69B4FDA3CD983111B4A5BBFE5C481455 [00:20]
deedbot: BingoBoingo paid Mocky invoice 3 [00:20]
BingoBoingo: In local news, stress fractures https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Carolina-Cosse-pidio-calmarse-un-poco-y-dejar-de-hacer-politica-basada-en-focus-group--uc725571 [00:22]
ave1: mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-29#1925588, thx! fixed. I did not put in a double ) to close of that comment. I also fixed some grammatical errors (I forgot to wait half an hour an proof-read before posting) [00:32]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-29 20:57 mp_en_viaje: ave1, you fucked up the footnote format. remember that ai closes and there's no nesting. thus therefore you can never have (( inside a footnote, like you do in footnote 3 [00:32]
mp_en_viaje: in other sads, something called "Blackboard_Safeassign" has been apparently crawling trilema for a while. it turns out "SafeAssign is a tool used to prevent plagiarism and to create opportunities to help students identify how to properly attribute sources rather than paraphrase. SafeAssign is effective as both a deterrent and an educational tool." [03:54]
mp_en_viaje: woe upon kiddies turning in trilema pages as their homework! [03:54]
mp_en_viaje: oh, and : "Website & Social Media Compliance, Monitoring and eDiscovery Solutions -- PageFreezer takes compliance and litigation off your plate by automatically archiving your websites, social media and enterprise collaboration in one easy cloud-based dashboard." [04:03]
mp_en_viaje: this is not even a stupid idea, sell web aerchiving as a litigation adjuvant. [04:04]
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in other empire lulz, reader points out trilema "disappeared" q4 2018. magic! [04:15]
mp_en_viaje: i guess i can go hang out with maduro and that guy in syria nao, new mp "democratically elected" in washington [04:16]
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in rotaku antiqua, http://trilema.com/2011/uite-stam-si-noi-degeaba-pe-aici/ i probably should translate that piece. [05:08]
mp_en_viaje: aaand... this elitebook has developped a new problem : if it gets overheated, the wifi drops. [05:08]
mp_en_viaje: i thought for a day it's "bad internet", but no, everything else works, just this lappy drops. and... i put it in the fridge for 10 minutes, now "the internet" is fine again. [05:09]
mp_en_viaje: who the fuck heard of this, ima have to fridge my laptop periodically. [05:09]
feedbot: http://ave1.org/2019/lisp-function-null-step-3/ << ave1 -- Lisp, Function NULL, Step 3. [06:25]
ave1: btw, I do like lisp and going through the spec. [06:27]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/fracture/ << Trilema -- Fracture [06:36]
jurov: ave1 and anyone learning common lisp: I recommend CLTL2, it is more accessible to sequential reading and it's the same information as CLHS, it was made at the same time. [08:15]
diana_coman: !!v BE8333B709761CC9477FE61D51A940B70EF3C7641C9F4B80EE5B6A87DFD65470 [08:57]
deedbot: diana_coman paid BingoBoingo invoice 2 [08:57]
ave1: jurov: Thanks!, I'll try it, but are all these lisp (sbcl, ecl etc) version 2 or 1? [10:22]
ave1: I did read SICP, so I'm not unfamiliar with the basic concepts [10:22]
ave1: Modern times https://mitadmissions.org/blogs/entry/the_end_of_an_era_1/ [10:26]
ave1: Personally, I wish it was possible to understand all the principles, but I guess its simply a reality that I must deal with. I guess, if you think about it, the path to further progression does not come from re-learning what has already been known a long time, but from using and building on that basis, applying principles in a working fashion, and achieving new things. [10:27]
jurov: ave1: CLTL2 means "Common Lisp the Language, 2nd edition", it's not about Lisp-1 vs. Lisp-2 distinction. [10:45]
jurov: sbcl, ecl, ccl are all Common Lisp (notice the big C) implementations [10:46]
jurov: There is no common (with small c) lisp, but multiple dialects. [10:48]
asciilifeform: jurov: i've actually written battlefield proggies in nuffin but the paper-standard cl. but admittedly this is rare. [10:49]
jurov: asciilifeform: i'm just under impression ave1 is confusing common and Common [10:50]
asciilifeform: hrm, prolly oughta disambiguate the sentence -- 'some proggies' 'in nuffin-but-the-paper-standard cl' [10:50]
asciilifeform: jurov: what's 'common' here ? [10:50]
asciilifeform: i only know one, i.e. ANSI INCITS 226-1994 [10:51]
asciilifeform: ave1: re sussman, see also [10:52]
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925635 << the root of misunderstanding. [10:53]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 14:22 ave1: jurov: Thanks!, I'll try it, but are all these lisp (sbcl, ecl etc) version 2 or 1? [10:53]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925626 << this is endemic. affects crapple boxen, and possibly all the recent (5y or so) chipsets [10:54]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 09:08 mp_en_viaje: aaand... this elitebook has developped a new problem : if it gets overheated, the wifi drops. [10:54]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925619 << i've been seeing these for years nao. they're all contemptible scams, incidentally: profit model is that shit student ~pays~ to test for 'accidental' plagiarism , so that homework won't set off detector when his prof tests [10:56]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 07:54 mp_en_viaje: in other sads, something called "Blackboard_Safeassign" has been apparently crawling trilema for a while. it turns out "SafeAssign is a tool used to prevent plagiarism and to create opportunities to help students identify how to properly attribute sources rather than paraphrase. SafeAssign is effective as both a deterrent and an educational tool." [10:56]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925627 << watch out for condensate [10:56]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 09:09 mp_en_viaje: i thought for a day it's "bad internet", but no, everything else works, just this lappy drops. and... i put it in the fridge for 10 minutes, now "the internet" is fine again. [10:56]
asciilifeform: ( the correct way to refrigerate devices is in sealed container w/ silica gel or at least dry rice ) [10:57]
jurov: !!v 59A3D49DDCB01333A647C323428AE8DC46A4BEFD8DFD99B7E91E24B326C97E3F [10:58]
deedbot: jurov paid BingoBoingo invoice 14 [10:58]
* diana_coman imagines MP throwing lappy into the soup pot in the fridge [10:58]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925632 << defo get cltl2. trying to learn from the ansi doc will pop yer head. [10:58]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 12:15 jurov: ave1 and anyone learning common lisp: I recommend CLTL2, it is more accessible to sequential reading and it's the same information as CLHS, it was made at the same time. [10:58]
asciilifeform: ave1: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/project/ai-repository/ai/html/cltl/cltl2.html full text. [10:59]
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925656 << eh, it's so dusty it'll absorb all condensation :D [11:09]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 14:57 asciilifeform: ( the correct way to refrigerate devices is in sealed container w/ silica gel or at least dry rice ) [11:09]
asciilifeform: lol [11:09]
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925659 << she knows me too well by now [11:09]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 14:58 diana_coman imagines MP throwing lappy into the soup pot in the fridge [11:09]
asciilifeform: meanwhile in heathen pits. ( was, apparently, the source of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-29#1925477 bandwidth sink. left'em a comment even. ) [11:12]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-29 14:03 asciilifeform: meanwhile 8+ y.o. asciilifeform piece still being commented.. [11:12]
mp_en_viaje: you know, at the rate imperial tards spawn, i expect we're just on the cusp of becoming "old man on the mountain" saint-hermits, revered antiqua etc. [11:29]
asciilifeform: 'in april was the jackal born, in june the rain-fed rivers swelled 'never in all my life,' said he, 'have i so great a flood beheld'' [11:30]
mp_en_viaje: you know ? [11:37]
asciilifeform: not even jackal, these folx have life cycle approaching that of drosophila naodays [11:38]
asciilifeform: 'His blog is now nothing but bloviating about bitcoin' << didjaknow ! [11:57]
* asciilifeform loox re when ~did~ last write anyffin about bitcoin... apparently '14. [11:57]
asciilifeform: possibly the source of confusion for the drosophila was the fact of ffa series being tagged, among other strings, 'bitcoin' , lol [11:59]
mp_en_viaje: more likely a simple http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/ failure they looked for "https everywhere" or "code of conduct" or whatever and didn't find it and reaching to label the situation somehiw [12:02]
mp_en_viaje: since "he's not fucked in the head like us lowly peons" isn't available to the peon psyche, "bloviating about bitcoin" will hafta do [12:03]
asciilifeform: seems likely. difficult to picture 1 of these actually taking time to read the fucking link [12:03]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-schools-breeding-narcissism-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Are Schools Breeding Narcissism? Adnotated. [12:03]
mp_en_viaje: your blog just fails to properly say apple could buy russia, or montjoie saint denis, or whatever "you're supposed to say". [12:03]
asciilifeform: they do a http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3440#selection-127.2-257.37 and jz .Not_Found, eh. [12:03]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925680 << oblig >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/breedingbolsheviks.jpg [12:07]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 16:03 feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-are-schools-breeding-narcissism-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Are Schools Breeding Narcissism? Adnotated. [12:07]
mp_en_viaje: keks [12:11]
mp_en_viaje: in other news, kiev has excellent slut support stores, not merely good party scene support. [12:12]
asciilifeform: what's in such a store ? those arse-installable fox tails ? [12:12]
mp_en_viaje: got the sluts hats, masks, stockings, hanbot got GG bras -- which is the first time managed to find a fitting bra for her and so on [12:13]
asciilifeform: aa [12:13]
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the buttplugs are more sex shop fare in my classificatiion [12:13]
asciilifeform: a, assumed that's what ~was~ 'slut support shop' [12:13]
mp_en_viaje: noh, see, support ? [12:14]
asciilifeform: and somehow i imagined (based on thin air) that silicoimplant comes with set of fitting covers [12:14]
asciilifeform: y'know, like lappy used to [12:14]
mp_en_viaje: but it goes... under the pectoral muscle [12:15]
mp_en_viaje: then there's the tit fat, and then thetre's the skin. how could the implant come with a bra ? [12:16]
asciilifeform: there was at one time a place that molded in-ear headphone to client's ear. assumed somehow that this exists for tits, and perhaps comes with the silicothing, lol [12:16]
* asciilifeform not up to date on subj [12:17]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in not-news, linux 3.16.70 src weighs... 625 MB . [12:34]
asciilifeform: ( ~not~ including any particular gcc , or ~gcc's deps~, or 'binutils' req'd by the latter. just kernel. ) [12:36]
mp_en_viaje: why even. [12:49]
mp_en_viaje: somehow THEY don't think THAT comes with a cover. [12:49]
asciilifeform: still remains to be seen, what subset can be discarded w/out reading [12:57]
asciilifeform: (i suspect -- at least 80%. but do not know for fact.) [12:58]
asciilifeform: may even be that the only practical approach is to discard ~100%~... ( who can meaningfully read 125M of obfuscated-c liquishit ? ) [12:59]
asciilifeform: to port the kernel to 'M', asciilifeform ended up having to read pretty good chunk of the arch/mips subtree, and it was comparatively small -- still bucket of sweat. [13:00]
asciilifeform: not, incidentally, meaningfully documented anywhere (tho no shortage of 'these here are docs, cuz we said!' crapola) -- tho i do not expect this surprises anyone. [13:01]
mp_en_viaje: myeah [13:02]
asciilifeform: the sheer magnitude of the bloat, is impressive even vs. microshit's (iirc 'win2k' kernel src weighed ~300M) [13:02]
asciilifeform: for completeness : 'drivers' subtree weighed 323M 'arch' (machine-specifics) : 126M leaving a 176M (quite evenly spread across remainder) . [13:05]
asciilifeform: e.g. 29MB of simply include .h crapola . [13:05]
asciilifeform: 28MB of soundcardism (why separate from 'drivers' ?? ask linus...) 26MB of ~unreadable 'docs' 6M of firmware 'blobs' (recall when linus said 'no blobs' ??) [13:06]
mp_en_viaje: they gave up. [13:06]
asciilifeform: 3M of build scriptolade alone [13:06]
asciilifeform: 25M of nic driverade [13:07]
asciilifeform: (again outside of 'drivers' for sumreason) [13:07]
asciilifeform: and kernel per se (not incl. headers) : ~7. [13:07]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-who-are-academics-writing-for-for-whom-are-academics-writing-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - Who Are Academics Writing For? (For Whom Are Academics Writing?) Adnotated. [13:17]
asciilifeform: that kernels is an exact equiv. of http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-arent-two-antipsychotics-better-than-one-the-most-important-article-on-psychiatry-part-3-adnotated/#identifier_2_86297 . and prolly born via exactly analogous process. [13:30]
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-30#1925677 << The part that amazes me is just how much the retards' handshaking appears unchanged. No strong indications this is distinctly 2019 derping rather than 2014 derping [13:33]
a111: Logged on 2019-07-30 16:02 mp_en_viaje: more likely a simple http://trilema.com/2018/the-retards-handshake/ failure they looked for "https everywhere" or "code of conduct" or whatever and didn't find it and reaching to label the situation somehiw [13:33]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why would change ? e.g. frog, croaks same today as 1e6y ago [13:35]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In the cultural space the sounds of the croaks certainly changed. "Compassionate Immigration" to "No Borders" and "Gay Weddings are fine" to "Worship Trannies NOW" [13:36]
mp_en_viaje: hm. [14:04]
mp_en_viaje: maybe it's a matter of history, they have the handshakes sorted by year, and they decide who to feel superior to that way, "oh, bro, that tshirt is so 2015" [14:05]
mp_en_viaje: whereas if there's nothing they recognize, panic. [14:05]
asciilifeform: hm i distinctly remembered the 'tard handshake' being about the catv incident ! but apparently entirely diff piece [14:06]
asciilifeform: found the item fwiw. [14:07]
mp_en_viaje: not that different after all. [14:15]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in tombs of other 'i will clean linux!' folx. [14:16]
a111: Logged on 2015-05-21 09:12 gabriel_laddel: CL. Additionally, I want people who have no prior knowledge of computing to develop taste. Gedankenexperiment: spend 10k USD, purchase stock PCs, preload with something somewhat sane (Actually complete Masamune/bitcoin-assets distro) and distribute to a class of kids "learning to program". IMHO they'll play around with it, do their work and then p [14:16]
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in local supply and demand https://www.montevideo.com.uy/Noticias/Mas-de-800-inscritos-para-9-plazas-de-peon-en-obras-de-Ferrocarril-Central-uc725602 [14:19]
BingoBoingo: "Homero Delgado, jefe de la oficina del Ministerio de Trabajo en Durazno, explicó en declaraciones al noticiero Informe Nacional, emitido por Radio Uruguay, que el llamado está dirigido a personas que vivan en un radio de 100 km de la obra, pero eso no impidió que se inscribiera gente proveniente de lugares mucho más lejanos, como Cerro Largo o Soriano. Según informaron desde el Ministerio de Trabajo a Montevideo Portal, a la [14:21]
BingoBoingo: s 11 de la mañana ya había 1043 inscriptos." [14:21]
mp_en_viaje: do they get a sammich or what [14:55]
BingoBoingo: I do believe the 9 lucky peons get sandwiches [14:58]
mp_en_viaje: a well then [15:30]
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/07/israelis-enthusiastically-burning-f-35s-stealth-window-with-strikes-now-in-iraq/ << Qntra -- Israelis Enth...ally Burning F-35's Stealth Window With Strikes, Now In Iraq [17:53]
mp_en_viaje: i even forgot all that 2011 lulz [18:45]
asciilifeform: via linked lulz, 'Haaretz.com is now inaccessible to visitors using ad blockers' << endemic nonsense, and only possible, afaik, on acct of 'ad blocker' writers taking payola from spammers [18:47]
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: I can't help by think of the USG/NATO/ETC F-35 dilemma as anything other than the ASIC era drama again [18:57]
mp_en_viaje: pretty lulzy considering what the shit cost [18:58]
BingoBoingo: Seriously, amplified by Irael's F-35 purchases being funded directly from their US payola. [19:00]
BingoBoingo: And the F-35 hole is ~1/3rd of the USG's fall from "Could have bought Russia in 1991" to today [19:01]
mp_en_viaje: just about huh [19:05]
BingoBoingo: And everything that distinguishes it from cheaper alternatives is being spent 2017-[2019 or 2021] so Israel can stot by fucking up random warehouses outside of a ware [19:10]
asciilifeform: imho actually a mistake to think of e.g. f35 as 'product' that 'has a price', as if it were toyota -- what instead is that the parasitic toad at any given time demands x %% of the printolade, and produces/pretends to produce certain # of golden toilets, and x / # is then 'price' [20:24]
asciilifeform: often enuff (e.g ronnie raygun's 'star wars') there ain't even a physical toilet. [20:25]
asciilifeform: iirc mp_en_viaje had a piece where illustrated this using 'whore vs. princess wife' [20:26]
asciilifeform: where the latter 'is to be paid 100% of yer money and in return will do as much or as little as feels like' [20:26]
asciilifeform: i.e. 'price of f35' is same order of item as 'price' of an individual reluctant fuck from princesswife [20:29]
asciilifeform: only offers the illusion of being a finite number because of practical limits (denominator aint actually +infinity and numerator in practice is rarely 0 , occasionally 'wife' is bored and/or does some 'work' by sheer accident ) [20:31]
asciilifeform: err, numerator/denominator [20:31]
asciilifeform: re: the limit, where spent->+inf / work->0 -- see also. . [20:33]
a111: Logged on 2015-02-21 04:28 asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built [20:33]
asciilifeform: already (Officially!) ~90% of f35 costs in 'software' (ball of cpp...) [20:34]
* asciilifeform was actually mildly surprised that 'f35' resulted in something resembling a physical machine. fully expected that it would remain 'software' indefinitely. [20:38]
BingoBoingo: Well, its a product in the way Bitcoin mining FGPA/ASICs were 2011-2013 [21:01]
BingoBoingo: For exactly those reasons. BFL was born sanding plastic caps from cheap surplus FGPAs after all [21:01]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: diff is, 'btc miner asic' is -- conceptually -- a thing, that can exist. whereas jet that is somehow 'worth' cost of 300 'prospective opponent's' machines , aint a thing. [21:03]
asciilifeform: not unless it can teleport and fire death rays at 300 targets simult. [21:04]
BingoBoingo: You forgot the 'worth' applies to the ASICs too [21:06]
BingoBoingo: Avalon didn't ship internally dusty machines without reason [21:06]
asciilifeform: i confess i dun follow the analogy [21:07]
asciilifeform: tho possibly i get the implication in BingoBoingo's piece, where what utility the thing has, will be spent, 'pushing up difficulty'. but afaik this is entirely incidental to the process that produced the thing, and its predecessors/successors, process that has ~0 to do with utility, prospective or otherwise [21:08]
BingoBoingo: Well, the higher difficulty goes the more constrained members of the buying group become in how they use the thing. Because Israel is driving up difficulty blowing up random warehouses, whoever might want to use the thing to take out radar sites before "humanely intervening" has to lose more jets. [21:18]
asciilifeform: afaik is questionable whether item had 'difficulty' in this sense to begin with [21:21]
BingoBoingo: But as long as 'difficulty' doesn't get tested it can be marketing wanked over. Once operators begin losing airframes, its value goes from marketing bluster to something interns fight over using MS Excel spreadshit comparing it to Brasil's SUper Tucano [21:24]
asciilifeform: oddly enuff, the 'difficulty gets tested and found laugh' somehow didn't make ~any measurable diff in korea/vietnam (where sov iron flew circles around nato's -- yet somehow the chairmen an' boards of 'lockheed', 'grumman', etc. ~weren't~ shot, nor any detectable similar thing happened ) [21:27]
BingoBoingo: Well, it lead to Gulf War 1 and Tailhook. Those lead to "Joint Strike Fighter" [21:34]
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