Forum logs for 28 Oct 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

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mats_cd03	http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/27/politics/soldiers-monitored-ebola/	[00:02]
mats_cd03	i loled	[00:03]
mats_cd03	http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/26/green-berets-tell-of-afghan-national-army-soldiers << green berets telling everybody who didn't already know the ANA is useless	[00:08]
mats_cd03	even afghan peasants are smarter than USG, apparently	[00:09]
mats_cd03	everybody in the region except the US knows they'll have to negotiate with the taliban five years from now	[00:10]
BingoBoingo	From the archives, USG buys pocket knives https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=86f51450ff84fb939de39f439f140f70&tab=core&tabmode=list&print_preview=1	[00:10]
mats_cd03	unreachable	[00:12]
jurov	sooo... got two mailman installations with gpg patch, one rejects everything as "bad signature" the other accepts even usigned stuff despite configured not to	[00:12]
jurov	/o	[00:12]
kakobrekla	!b 2	[00:12]
jurov	gotta debug	[00:12]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3PAVD4T.txt )	[00:13]
kakobrekla	dont worry bash is down.	[00:13]
jurov	!b 2	[00:13]
assbot	Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1M35DV1.txt )	[00:13]
kakobrekla	lol	[00:14]
kakobrekla	lol DO is being totally retarded	[00:15]
kakobrekla	maybe time to test retardation levels at vultr	[00:15]
punkman	I wouldn't expect vultr to be better but who knows	[00:16]
kakobrekla	well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised"	[00:17]
kakobrekla	srsly.	[00:17]
los_pantalones	mike_c still in here?	[00:18]
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kakobrekla	they are basically saying "hello idiot, put shoe on head, banana in anus to fix ddos"	[00:19]
kakobrekla	im totaly fine if they take the machine down for the needed period	[00:20]
kakobrekla	but i will not dance bananas.	[00:20]
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mike_c	los_pantalones: yeah	[00:22]
los_pantalones	we provide btc liquidity otc and on exchange	[00:23]
los_pantalones	over 185k traded last 30 days	[00:23]
mike_c	impressive. who is "we"?	[00:23]
kakobrekla	which ex?	[00:23]
los_pantalones	company i work for, i would tell you if i were in on my company pgp but i'm using my personal here	[00:23]
los_pantalones	most	[00:23]
los_pantalones	we don't touch bitstamp	[00:23]
kakobrekla	:D	[00:24]
los_pantalones	directly	[00:24]
kakobrekla	...	[00:24]
kakobrekla	lol	[00:24]
kakobrekla	all roads lead to buttstamp	[00:24]
kakobrekla	close to rome too.	[00:24]
los_pantalones	yeah, odd arrangement but you can trade on bitstamp via coinsetter	[00:24]
kakobrekla	geographically i mean.	[00:24]
los_pantalones	works better for us legally	[00:24]
kakobrekla	ah coinsetter idiots	[00:24]
kakobrekla	nvm, carry on.	[00:24]
los_pantalones	anyway, we make investments here and there but mostly trade	[00:25]
los_pantalones	and luckily i get to take calls from VC looking at companies	[00:25]
cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/10/blackmailers-pay-us-one-million-euro-in-bitcoin-or-we-will-spread-ebola/	[00:25]
los_pantalones	those are fun calls	[00:25]
mike_c	how's the bear market treating you?	[00:25]
los_pantalones	great	[00:25]
los_pantalones	super busy	[00:25]
los_pantalones	i try to push everyone into here, most haven't taken me up on it	[00:26]
kakobrekla	only idiots use irc.	[00:27]
pete_dushenski	cazalla first drugs, now disease, next clubbing baby seals.	[00:28]
pete_dushenski	los_pantalones be more selective?	[00:28]
pete_dushenski	kakobrekla irc is dangerous because it uses passwords, y'know	[00:29]
los_pantalones	pete_dushenski it's not like i'm suggesting hundreds of people come in here, just the guys who end up on .derp	[00:29]
pete_dushenski	.derp ?	[00:29]
kakobrekla	lol	[00:29]
kakobrekla	pete, mpex issued derp	[00:30]
pete_dushenski	;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem of a comment in the public forum: "No, more nodes arent more secure. A full node is valuable to the one running it, not anyone else"	[00:32]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:32]
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pete_dushenski	kakobrekla i musta missed how people go from mpex to using los_pantalones for btc liquidity?	[00:33]
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kakobrekla	i think theres a misunderstanding going on here.	[00:34]
kakobrekla	sending people to ba is not relevant to btc liquidity	[00:34]
pete_dushenski	o! i got it now. my bad.	[00:35]
pete_dushenski	i understood los_pantalones as saying that people who "ended up on .derp" were traders, not the actual fucking derps!	[00:36]
pete_dushenski	lol	[00:36]
pete_dushenski	heh twitter lost another $175mn this quarter. such business those guys	[00:37]
kakobrekla	33mb tweets?	[00:38]
pete_dushenski	this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled.	[00:38]
pete_dushenski	kakobrekla twitter needs bigger nodes.	[00:39]
pete_dushenski	!s taleb ebola	[00:41]
assbot	0 results for 'taleb ebola' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=taleb+ebola	[00:41]
pete_dushenski	ok then: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8nhAlfIk3QIdlJNSXo1dkMzOVU/view	[00:42]
pete_dushenski	Taleb: Ebola, including model error.	[00:42]
pete_dushenski	hmm do comments not yield trackbacks?	[00:49]
pete_dushenski	didn't see one for this: http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/#comment-109294	[00:49]
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cazalla	ben_vulpes: didja comment on their blorg? <<< i'll give em time to respond via email first	[01:03]
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PeterL	mircea_popescu: rss thing ... I am working on it, it is almost ready, I think, just need to work out a few bugs and clean up my code some	[01:18]
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Adlai	https://pay.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2khvc5/fincen_issues_two_administrative_rulings/	[02:16]
Adlai	TIL linden dollar exchanges are registered MSBs	[02:17]
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BingoBoingo	Adlai: I'm working on a write up atm on those	[02:22]
ben_vulpes	pete_dushenski: dude you gotta stop your blog from opening up links in new tabs	[02:23]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes uh no?	[02:26]
pete_dushenski	why would i do that?	[02:26]
ben_vulpes	vile fucking practice, destroying the browse history.	[02:27]
cazalla	question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products?	[02:27]
PeterL	is there a way to change that behavior in your local browser?	[02:28]
punkman	cazalla: not rly	[02:28]
ben_vulpes	also pete_dushenski your content div scrolls sideways	[02:28]
cazalla	punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons."	[02:28]
PeterL	cazella: maybe they are not making good entropy and are embarrased to admit it?	[02:28]
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ben_vulpes	cazalla: only if you're depending on DO for your noise.	[02:29]
jurov	sugh, this is worse than obola.. i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain	[02:29]
PeterL	If it is something like "pick a certain digit of pi to start at" then it would be a security breach to expose what you are doing	[02:30]
jurov	base64, quoted printable, oh my	[02:30]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: no-irc << story here. a good fraction of irc bots are malware c&c commanders. hosting firms hate them, they draw fire (from upstream isp)	[02:30]
ben_vulpes	PeterL: yeah sure, custom stylesheet for contravex.com clobbering target="_blank"	[02:30]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes hm let me mull it over	[02:30]
ben_vulpes	but as i said, clobbering the back-button when reading hyperlinked documents is...	[02:31]
ben_vulpes	well you fill in that ellipses yourself.	[02:31]
kakobrekla	punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons." < if its a bad implementation, you in fact increase attack surface even further	[02:31]
punkman	and that's a good reason?	[02:31]
kakobrekla	didnt say that	[02:31]
kakobrekla	everything is terrible	[02:32]
asciilifeform	cazalla: is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy << your crystal ball's answer is correct.	[02:32]
asciilifeform	cazalla: same reason mircea_popescu won't post his neutered bitcoind source tree.	[02:33]
asciilifeform	cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose	[02:33]
kakobrekla	same as with signing any code.	[02:33]
asciilifeform	jurov: i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain <<<<< mircea_popescu << our thread last night.	[02:33]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: signing code << can be a hero for the motherland.	[02:34]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes it's a bit odd that the sidescroll shows up in firefox and safari but not opera. what're you using?	[02:34]
cazalla	so really, it's more a question of why buy physical coins to begin with than getting to the point of asking how they generated the private keys used for the priv address inside the coin	[02:34]
punkman	asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools	[02:34]
*	asciilifeform will sign own code (cardano) with 'will die by this' seal. will not sign other folks' code, unless compensated to actually put in the time to play 'reverse underhanded c contest.' << not cheap	[02:34]
kakobrekla	but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools < we call the rand() function. twice.	[02:35]
asciilifeform	physical coins << anyone who buys private keys, deserves to pay for the sin	[02:36]
kakobrekla	yeah casascius is basically a scammer for not scamming	[02:36]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: 'the gears grind slowly but they grind infinitely fine.'	[02:37]
kakobrekla	hehe	[02:37]
ben_vulpes	pete_dushenski: chrome	[02:38]
asciilifeform	he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ?	[02:38]
pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes zomg	[02:39]
pete_dushenski	anyways, i'll look in to it :)	[02:39]
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cazalla	pete_dushenski, where did the women go btw	[02:40]
BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2014/10/fincen-payment-processors-others-may-be-regulated-money-transmitters/	[02:40]
pete_dushenski	cazalla they were lost in the hosting changeover and have yet to reappear. they may still or they may not.	[02:40]
asciilifeform	punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe?	[02:40]
ben_vulpes	pete_dushenski: also opera lol	[02:41]
punkman	I got a coin in the works btw	[02:43]
kakobrekla	physical ?	[02:43]
punkman	yeah, not sure if it will have space for sticker though	[02:43]
punkman	maybe just an art thing	[02:43]
kakobrekla	funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead.	[02:44]
Adlai	https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=1210409 ctrl-f bitcoin and laff	[02:45]
asciilifeform	Adlai: dead link?	[02:45]
kakobrekla	no worky	[02:45]
Adlai	here it is with all the tracking crap... https://sjobs.brassring.com/TGWebHost/jobdetails.aspx?jobId=1210409&JobReqLang=1&partnerid=25404&siteid=5602&Codes=TD103	[02:46]
*	Adlai must've had some tracking crap in his browser already	[02:46]
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Adlai	tl;dr: "emerging payment systems (eg Bitcoin, Paypal, Square)"	[02:47]
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*	Adlai likes the order	[02:47]
*	kakobrekla waits for "10 years bitcoin experience required" in 2014.	[02:48]
BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/526897263482654721	[02:48]
assbot	Today's /hashtag/FinCEN?src=hash /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hash rulings Deturdified, because Fuck PDFs http://t.co/sIOYOjmmbz	[02:48]
asciilifeform	!s 3 ani experienta	[02:48]
assbot	3 results for '3 ani experienta' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=3+ani+experienta	[02:48]
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BingoBoingo	Starfish virginity protection methods: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm	[02:50]
asciilifeform	^ classic text	[02:50]
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asciilifeform	see also:	[02:51]
asciilifeform	;;google knife folsom prison	[02:51]
gribble	Put 'Em Down, Take 'Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From ...: ; Knife Fighting : About Folsom Knife Fighting - YouTube: ; Put Em Down, Take Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom ...:	[02:51]
asciilifeform	^ a kind of sequel	[02:51]
bounce	7+ year "technical leadership" in webmonkeying?	[02:52]
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pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes sidescrolling fixed on opera/ff/safari, how's it look on chromeski?	[03:02]
jurov	asciilifeform << our thread last night << now i wonder why nobody's reusing ascii control characters (C0)	[03:03]
jurov	C0 reserved for asciilifeforms?	[03:03]
asciilifeform	jurov: because they get silently snipped by a thousand tools ?	[03:03]
asciilifeform	and aha, yes.	[03:03]
jurov	for example?	[03:03]
asciilifeform	'strings'.	[03:04]
asciilifeform	your www broser (likely)	[03:04]
asciilifeform	better question, what -doesn't- lose them	[03:04]
jurov	how does a browser use them?	[03:04]
asciilifeform	loses	[03:05]
asciilifeform	not uses	[03:05]
*	asciilifeform would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong about this	[03:05]
jurov	oh that. only if tim berners lee used them for html instead of <>"'	[03:05]
asciilifeform	we're still paying for the ill manners of ill-behaved 1970s 'glass tty' terminals.	[03:06]
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jurov	^F	[03:08]
jurov	^ was supposed to ACK	[03:08]
*	asciilifeform half-seriously suggests using otherwise worthless unicode chars for pgp control codes. e.g., babylonian cuneiform.	[03:10]
*	asciilifeform is not pleased that these are presently more widely supported than the complete ascii set. but it's a fact.	[03:11]
asciilifeform	☭☭☭☭☭☭	[03:12]
bounce	more elegant to invent your own pgp control script complete with glyphs and have it accepted in the unicode standard	[03:14]
PeterL	what control would the characters have?	[03:17]
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jurov	instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars	[03:18]
asciilifeform	PeterL: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897500	[03:18]
assbot	Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this.	[03:18]
asciilifeform	discussion of why jurov's turdatron is stuck using detached gpg signatures	[03:18]
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jurov	https://coinchimp.com/ so...it has come to this	[03:29]
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mats_cd03	thats a nice picture of a chimp	[03:30]
jurov	lol on their on "warning" page:	[03:30]
jurov	That's just basic classical economics. Scammers don't last long in the Bitcoin ecosystem.	[03:30]
jurov	We are MUCH safer than the other exchanges, each of which has spawned a huge list of horror stories from disgrunted customers.	[03:32]
jurov	they forgot to mention they are amazing	[03:32]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[03:32]
kakobrekla	https://coinchimp.com/themes/btc_public/assets/imgs/mainpromo.jpg	[03:33]
kakobrekla	lolk	[03:33]
kakobrekla	better than mtgox, they say.	[03:33]
decimation	asciilifeform: is this because base64?	[03:35]
jurov	decimation: no, it uses dash escaping	[03:36]
asciilifeform	decimation: gpg 'escapes' minus signs.	[03:36]
jurov	which mutilates patches	[03:36]
decimation	lol	[03:36]
cazalla	that's racist!	[03:36]
jurov	cazalla: what?	[03:36]
decimation	why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits?	[03:37]
decimation	like, are they going to send it on a 5-bit teletype?	[03:37]
cazalla	jurov, referring to kakobrekla's coinchimp image.. hey if it was good enough for people to say mailchimp was vaguely racist..	[03:37]
asciilifeform	because -----BEGIN FUCKTARDATION----- .... ------END FUCKTARDATION	[03:37]
decimation	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorenz_cipher	[03:37]
decimation	I see.	[03:38]
decimation	c-machine implementation of characters is enraging	[03:40]
decimation	I think you had that rant a few months ago on that topic	[03:40]
asciilifeform	decimation: http://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/not-all-programmers-alike/#comment-3676	[03:41]
decimation	someone should make a --cccp flag that enables ☭ as the BOM/EOM char for gpg	[03:42]
asciilifeform	see also: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3036079150517560@arcana.naggum.no.html	[03:43]
decimation	yeah, characters are properly objects with a variety of attributes, not numbers	[03:43]
decimation	it does seem like unicode is a natural fit for lisp	[03:43]
asciilifeform	unicode is still braindamaged	[03:44]
decimation	I think most folk use UTF8	[03:44]
asciilifeform	no way to cleanly define local glyphs	[03:44]
asciilifeform	in any extant system	[03:44]
asciilifeform	it's as if we were still using teletype	[03:44]
asciilifeform	why are we emulating drum printers?	[03:45]
decimation	actually it's a tacit admission that computers suck	[03:45]
decimation	no one has the will/ability to make better software until hardware to use it rolls around	[03:45]
asciilifeform	in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more.	[03:46]
asciilifeform	because 'that's just how computer works, didntcha stay awake in school'	[03:46]
decimation	Another reason why chars suck is the endian problem	[03:46]
*	Adlai mutters something about local readtables	[03:46]
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asciilifeform	nothing to do with readtables	[03:47]
decimation	you are stuck with 8 bits if you don't want to constantly guess at endianness	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	!up Abelincoln	[03:47]
Adlai	what exactly are we trying to do here	[03:47]
-assbot-	You voiced Abelincoln for 30 minutes.	[03:47]
*	assbot gives voice to Abelincoln	[03:47]
asciilifeform	Adlai: which 'we', which 'here' ?	[03:47]
Abelincoln	whats up this is abe lincoln talking from the dead yo	[03:47]
Adlai	asciilifeform: we = same we that are emulating drum printers, here = our efforts to go beyond drum printers	[03:48]
decimation	abe you were a murderous tyrant who birthed modern usg	[03:48]
asciilifeform	decimation: also 100 to 1 he's 'meow mix'	[03:48]
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mircea_popescu	brendio ?!	[03:50]
*	Lycerion_ is now known as Lycerion	[03:50]
decimation	I have a question about deedbot	[03:51]
decimation	is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time?	[03:51]
decimation	one would imagine that keeping the pile of all past deeds would become cumbersome	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	uh ?!	[03:52]
asciilifeform	!	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	dude it grows 100% a year haven't you heard ?	[03:52]
asciilifeform	didn't we do this already	[03:52]
asciilifeform	in babylon.	[03:52]
asciilifeform	ended badly, iirc	[03:52]
decimation	well, I was thinking about undata's problem	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	knapsacks grow faster than things to put in them!	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	by order of usgavin	[03:52]
asciilifeform	'bag of holding' !	[03:53]
decimation	imagine a century from now, someone wants to verify a deed - he would need to transmit potentially millions of deed hashes	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform bag of treasuries.	[03:53]
Adlai	decimation: s/deed/transaction/	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	decimation wait wut ?	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	you only need to verify the bundle in question	[03:53]
*	Adlai is a little curious about this deed stuf	[03:54]
decimation	well, if the hash of the bundle is included in the bundle, how did the hash end up in the bundle?	[03:54]
asciilifeform	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3127703943282468@naggum.no.html << more re character representation	[03:54]
thestringpuller	!s from:mircea_popescu sha1	[03:54]
assbot	4 results for 'from:mircea_popescu sha1' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+sha1	[03:54]
mircea_popescu	decimation all submitted deeds during one hour go in the same bundle./	[03:54]
Adlai	asciilifeform: thx	[03:55]
decimation	okay, so each bundle has a hash, and the privkey of that bundle is the hash of the list of all past hashes	[03:55]
mircea_popescu	dude omg. not like he didn't say and get quoted x times.	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	!s from:punkman hash	[03:56]
assbot	13 results for 'from:punkman hash' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Apunkman+hash	[03:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286	[03:56]
assbot	Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key	[03:56]
BingoBoingo	https://coinfire.cf/2014/10/27/sec-begins-sending-investigation-letters/ << Coinfire has more people supposing important letters	[03:56]
asciilifeform	'A character and its encoding are different concepts. An encoding and its (external) representation are different concepts. An external representation and the numeric values of whatever unit it is made up of are different concepts. By conflating all four concepts into one, Unix has held text processing and computing in general back several decades. This is fairly ironic, since Unix started out as a text proce	[03:57]
asciilifeform	ssing vehicle.' ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3226037188416051@naggum.net.html )	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo we probably should send them some letters too.	[03:57]
aabtc	Abelincoln Adlai aegis agamemnon23 agorecki AlexWkz altoz AndrewJackson Anduck Apocalyptic arij artifexd asciilifeform assbot atcbot Azelphur	[03:57]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: All of the letters, entire doctors full of letters.	[03:57]
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decimation	I guess it's not worth worrying about until there's an uptake in deedbot usage	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform eh i don't even agree. fuck all this subtlety of amuk idiocy. a character, its encoding, the representation thereof and its numeric value are all THE SAME THING. forever.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	anyone trying to divorce any of these gets to burn in hell.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	27 letters and fuck you.	[03:58]
asciilifeform	- and --- forever.	[03:58]
asciilifeform	tidididahdahdah...	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	fixed offset.	[03:58]
mircea_popescu	NO PASARAN	[03:58]
*	asciilifeform dusts off telegraph key	[03:58]
decimation	.... .. - .... . .-. .	[03:59]
asciilifeform	shortwavecoin awaits.	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	-. --- / .--. .- ... .- .-. .- -.	[03:59]
decimation	bitcoin shortwavecoin	[03:59]
thestringpuller	... --- ...	[04:00]
*	RagnarsBitch has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)	[04:00]
bounce	also, one case. only. ever.	[04:01]
asciilifeform	OK	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	AND NOW WE'RE BACK TO THE ORIGINAL LISP DISCUNTSION.	[04:01]
asciilifeform	101	[04:01]
bounce	typical how you're both reverting to upper case. who said that had to be the only one available?	[04:01]
thestringpuller	I don't like it when mircea_popescu yells.	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	SHUT UP BOUNCE	[04:02]
bounce	because logic. sure.	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	no, because allcaps!	[04:02]
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Adlai	(setf print-case :downcase) ; pls	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	it's like if there were only one gender,	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	it'd be men.	[04:02]
decimation	most morse operators who have to send numbers use shortened versions	[04:03]
decimation	so zero ----- becomes - or 't'	[04:03]
*	yhwh__ has quit (Remote host closed the connection)	[04:03]
decimation	how's that for symbol/number representation	[04:03]
bounce	no, it wouldn't. wouldn't be women either.	[04:03]
asciilifeform	ooloi.	[04:03]
asciilifeform	;;google ooloi	[04:03]
gribble	Oankali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis Trilogy: An Introduction - Biology: ; Imago: Book Three of the Xenogenesis Series (1989):	[04:03]
mircea_popescu	yes it wouldn't be women lol	[04:03]
Adlai	if there were only one gender, "gender" the concept wouldn't exist	[04:04]
asciilifeform	(summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.)	[04:04]
mircea_popescu	Adlai how come everyone's smart yet the concept of stupid exists ?	[04:04]
Abelincoln	hi	[04:04]
Abelincoln	whats up everyone	[04:04]
Abelincoln	WHATS UP	[04:04]
decimation	!down Abelincoln	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	!down Abelincoln	[04:05]
*	assbot removes voice from Abelincoln	[04:05]
asciilifeform	lol, firing squad	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	yeah, not qualified to troll here. go learn moirse.	[04:05]
undata	innovation is happening; deploy SEC!	[04:05]
Adlai	the gradient of idiocy is far more nuanced, although i guess our dead president is anchoring one end of it	[04:05]
decimation	eh. every new bureaucrat knows that they can 'embrace and extend' new territory by trying to 'get there first'	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	Over at reddit.com, we rewrote the site from Lisp to Python in the past week. It was pretty much done in one weekend. << lawl.	[04:06]
bounce	rulemaking, the frontier	[04:06]
Adlai	they must have been using the algol-compatibility subset	[04:06]
bounce	so what were the motivation and benefits of doing that?	[04:07]
asciilifeform	'skilled man can write fortran in any language'	[04:07]
Adlai	it's kinda sad that going from CL to Python is a step backwards in concurrency support	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	bounce old story, 2005ish. "runs faster"	[04:07]
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decimation	if true, it's probably that their lisp was retarded	[04:08]
mircea_popescu	"The Lisp newsgroup, comp.lang.lisp, was upset about the switch that they’re currently planning to write a competitor to reddit in Lisp, to show how right they are or something." << never happened, of course.	[04:08]
decimation	http://norvig.com/python-lisp.html	[04:08]
Adlai	bwahahahah	[04:08]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: actually, the funny part - it sorta did. graham and his 'arc' (which was actually a spray paint over, if i recall, mzscheme)	[04:09]
Adlai	a reddit infested with c.l.l trolls would be interesting... i hope they'd bring along the markov chain idiocy spammers too	[04:09]
asciilifeform	ended up filling all the ancient stereotypes about 'slow'	[04:09]
Adlai	it's the fifty-year language, it takes fifty years until the HTTP client gets implemented	[04:09]
undata	dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django	[04:10]
asciilifeform	Adlai: funny, because one of the first http stacks was john mallery's - in common lisp.	[04:10]
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asciilifeform	on symbolics box, no less. ran last at the clinton white house, of all places.	[04:10]
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*	Adlai didn't know, but isn't surprised	[04:10]
thestringpuller	undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js	[04:10]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[04:10]
thestringpuller	rap*	[04:10]
*	Abelincoln has quit (K-Lined)	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	anyway, that article is all about how arron s is great and wonderful.	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	which... whatever, when i start fucking boys i might care.	[04:11]
nubbins`	he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ? <<< probably no more than a few days of torture	[04:11]
thestringpuller	"when"?	[04:11]
thestringpuller	^ mircea_popescu	[04:11]
undata	thestringpuller: the only way I can tolerate python is by considering it "functional" in the weak sense	[04:12]
asciilifeform	'when we'll eat long pig? when short pig is through'	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller women will eventually run out...	[04:12]
jurov	kakobrekla ponder this bit of wisdom from naggum: it has been instructive to see how people suddenly grasp that a date is always read and written in ISO 8601 format although the machine actually deals with it as a large integer...	[04:12]
jurov	..Unix folks who are used to seeing the number _or_ a hacked-up crufty version of `ctime' output are truly amazed by this.	[04:12]
thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: how so?	[04:12]
mircea_popescu	thestringpuller because they're cuntable.	[04:13]
thestringpuller	harhar	[04:13]
thestringpuller	http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitpay-lets-bitcoin-customers-make-it-rain/	[04:13]
decimation	herr walker just introduced me to the 'rust' language: http://www.rust-lang.org/	[04:14]
decimation	it's kinda like c++ without the libraries	[04:14]
undata	decimation: the immutability by default thing is cool	[04:15]
asciilifeform	fuck immutability.	[04:15]
decimation	yeah, I don't get how that helps	[04:15]
asciilifeform	whenever someone says 'immutability', i wish i could replace his ram with antifuse rom.	[04:15]
decimation	lol	[04:15]
asciilifeform	all the immutability you can handle.	[04:16]
*	Adlai is still waiting for a language to implement http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/ObjectIdentity.html	[04:16]
asciilifeform	till it comes out yer ears.	[04:16]
decimation	asciilifeform: it's another symptom of the 'protect the programmer from himself' mentality	[04:16]
asciilifeform	nah	[04:16]
asciilifeform	it actually comes from the 'mathemasturbators'	[04:16]
decimation	ah, in terms of proofs?	[04:17]
nubbins`	!s sha256sum	[04:17]
assbot	5 results for 'sha256sum' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sha256sum	[04:17]
asciilifeform	the 'we embezzled 40 years of grantola from usg to pretend our fourth-rate mathematics is relevant to computing' folks.	[04:17]
mircea_popescu	^	[04:17]
undata	I'm blessed to be among perfect programmers.	[04:17]
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undata	as for myself, as many constraints as possible, please.	[04:17]
asciilifeform	haskell, ml, hindley-milner type systems.	[04:17]
nubbins`	anyone have a link handy for deed verification process?	[04:17]
undata	strict types, etc	[04:17]
nubbins`	n/m	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised" <<< ahahaha wut ?	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	dude, logic.	[04:18]
Adlai	undata: run forrest, run! break out of those crutches!	[04:18]
undata	Adlai: when you intend to, you simply specify something mutable	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	"you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."	[04:18]
Adlai	run forrest, run!	[04:18]
Adlai	undata: see the object identity paper	[04:19]
undata	Adlai: I am already bigoted against OOP	[04:19]
undata	should I bother?	[04:19]
Adlai	yes	[04:20]
Adlai	once upon a time, "object" meant something other than "instance of a class"	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	i think oop is generally despised here.	[04:20]
undata	Adlai: I'd rather just have my types over here, and functions over there which use them	[04:20]
undata	I'll read it though.	[04:20]
undata	mircea_popescu: objects are just an intermediate shitbucket between global and local	[04:21]
Adlai	the paper has nothing to do with OOP, "object" could equally be replaced by "data"	[04:21]
asciilifeform	the crop of junk-oop systems of the 1990s will be tremendously expensive to future folks, who will avoid anything that smacks of 'objects' even when a particular apparatus actually wants to be represented in that shape	[04:21]
*	assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	undata as actually encountered, pretty much. asciilifeform i guess so.	[04:22]
*	asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS	[04:22]
*	bounce doesn't mind OOP. there's some good ideas in there, even if most practitioners didn't get it.	[04:22]
asciilifeform	;;google art of metaobject protocol	[04:22]
gribble	The Art of the Metaobject Protocol: Gregor Kiczales, Jim des ...: ; The Art of the Metaobject Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; MetaObject Protocol - Association of Lisp Users:	[04:22]
asciilifeform	^ as described there.	[04:22]
bounce	quite sure that if there wasn't OOP they'd've thought of something else to write crap code in	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	i guess a fairer evaluation is to say oop got the blessing of suck, the way www did.	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	experts everywhere.	[04:22]
asciilifeform	blessing of suck <<<<<	[04:22]
Adlai	asciilifeform: seen this? http://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple	[04:22]
Adlai	turns out people actually use it	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	!s sykopomp	[04:23]
assbot	2 results for 'sykopomp' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=sykopomp	[04:23]
mircea_popescu	actually in teh logs. we got everything weird!	[04:23]
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decimation	oop is one of those things that sounds great on paper, but when a group of programmers try to use it they end up with unmaintainable spaghetti code	[04:23]
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asciilifeform	i've yet to meet a 'reinventor' of clos who actually understood all of clos	[04:23]
asciilifeform	or even showed symptoms of having so much as smelled the book gas in kiczales et al	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	i'm never going to catch up to this log, am i.	[04:24]
Adlai	mircea_popescu: actually not in the logs, unless anybody paid attention when i brought it up :)	[04:24]
asciilifeform	doesn't mean this 'nessie' isn't alive and well in some loch.	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	Adlai i still got the impression it was discussed before. maybe im just confused, maybe assbot was down right then, dunno.	[04:24]
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*	asciilifeform blows dust off kiczales	[04:24]
*	asciilifeform notices no dust. because uses.	[04:25]
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decimation	asciilifeform: I get the feeling that oop is sick at a metaphysical level	[04:25]
asciilifeform	oop as straightjacked (i.e. other than clos) - yes.	[04:25]
asciilifeform	*straightjacket	[04:25]
Adlai	we got stuck on how to implement a MOP for sheeple, and it hasn't seen enough use for people to miss it... but it's a rather faithful translation of MOPless CLOS	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski: ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem <<< i dunno, it's like the guy went off the deep end past coupla weeks.	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	major bender or something.	[04:25]
*	bounce forgot who argued that of the four main things in OOP only encapsulation was really important, but things like (multiple) inheritance are just that much shinier	[04:26]
undata	oop is shitty function dispatch paired with some implicit scope stapled to your functions	[04:26]
undata	why?	[04:26]
asciilifeform	dafuq's the point of mopless clos	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	Adlai oh, you involved with the project ?	[04:26]
asciilifeform	that's like cockless man	[04:26]
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asciilifeform	dulap!!!	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform cockless man is sitll not woman!	[04:26]
asciilifeform	aha.	[04:26]
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Adlai	pls. https://github.com/sykopomp/sheeple/graphs/contributors	[04:27]
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Adlai	sykopomp was satoshi to my usgavin	[04:27]
mircea_popescu	fucking github.com. "Loading contributions…"	[04:27]
asciilifeform	the pitiful object systems that lack even basics like 'mixins' are not merely cockless, but armless, legless	[04:27]
mircea_popescu	take yer javascript an' shove it. fucking ajax things.	[04:28]
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bounce	next you'll be saying ruby is the future	[04:28]
undata	haaaa	[04:28]
mircea_popescu	ruby is the failure	[04:29]
mircea_popescu	closest it gets to future.	[04:29]
*	dnaleor has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[04:29]
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asciilifeform	the ruby by yukihiro 'i half-learned common lisp, i confess' matsumoto ?	[04:29]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski: this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled. <<< yeah, the time to short the pos approaches.	[04:29]
*	mircea_popescu remembers riding rimm all the way down.	[04:29]
*	dnaleor_ is now known as dnaleor	[04:30]
mircea_popescu	pete_dushenski: hmm do comments not yield trackbacks? << wut ?	[04:30]
undata	python would be if not advisable, forgivible if someone ripped the classes out	[04:30]
undata	and added type annotations	[04:31]
Adlai	in ze end, ve vil al be speking german...	[04:31]
mircea_popescu	undata well they made their own web.py class structure, back then	[04:31]
*	asciilifeform still can't grasp how a programming system having 'global interpreter lock' became a beloved tool	[04:31]
undata	because people are followers and it wasn't an informed decision	[04:32]
*	asciilifeform only has one theory, 'good-cop-bad-cop symbiosis' with perl	[04:32]
bounce	power of the crowd?	[04:32]
*	undata thinks random shuffling among the things people are capable of	[04:32]
asciilifeform	no, power of the frying pan	[04:32]
decimation	asciilifeform: yeah I remember rejecting perl; finding pythong as the best alternative	[04:32]
Adlai	the GIL is good for limiting the amount of toes you can shoot off at once	[04:32]
decimation	they didn't teach lisp in those days	[04:32]
asciilifeform	who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist	[04:33]
Adlai	do they teach lisp in any days, these days?	[04:33]
undata	man, this is the generation of programmers that thinks nosql is a great idea	[04:33]
asciilifeform	no.	[04:33]
undata	nobody knows shit.	[04:33]
asciilifeform	the folks who attend uni, sometimes even worse than never hearing of it at all, learn 'LISP'	[04:33]
decimation	asciilifeform: as in some ancient turd?	[04:33]
asciilifeform	that is, a deliberately archaic variant that brings back all the dark age stereotypes (slow, no iteration constructs, poor i/o)	[04:33]
asciilifeform	this generally ruins folks for life on the concept itself	[04:34]
*	undata grumbles about a bunch of JS developers farting out things like couchdb	[04:34]
mircea_popescu	who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist << i don't run a windows machine. for me ms might as well not exist. however, i did get apple powered tablet to check out their game marketplace.	[04:34]
mircea_popescu	don't forget that. apple isn't a tech company, it's a media company.	[04:34]
asciilifeform	^ different thing here	[04:34]
mircea_popescu	like LMVH, but exactly.	[04:34]
*	asciilifeform has a collection of apple gizmos for similar purposes	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	apple it's what yahoo has aspired at all these years. if they had any sense, they wouldn't have hired melissa no clue, they'd have hired jobs back then	[04:35]
Adlai	they've made some nice hardware too	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	Adlai in the sense of gucci bags, nice.	[04:35]
asciilifeform	afaik 'yahoo' was 'mmm' from day 1.	[04:35]
Adlai	well yes, that is a valid sense of the word	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	girl-nice, not boy-nice	[04:35]
decimation	asciilifeform: as in 3M?	[04:35]
asciilifeform	nope	[04:35]
asciilifeform	!s mavrodi	[04:36]
assbot	0 results for 'mavrodi' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mavrodi	[04:36]
asciilifeform	;;google mavrodi mmm	[04:36]
gribble	Sergei Mavrodi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; MMM (Ponzi scheme company) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Новости МММ-2012 - page screenshot of ...:	[04:36]
decimation	ah multilevel marketing	[04:36]
asciilifeform	pyramid.	[04:36]
Adlai	dunno, some of apple's earlier hardware was boy-nice too	[04:36]
mircea_popescu	and they nearly went bankrupt with it.	[04:36]
asciilifeform	who, exactly, sells 'boy' nice ?	[04:36]
asciilifeform	today.	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the chinese.	[04:37]
*	Adlai likes his lenovo thinkpad	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	^ lmao	[04:37]
mats_cd03	http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/life/motoring/article4248707.ece	[04:37]
*	asciilifeform prods barely-adequate lenovo	[04:37]
decimation	eh, chinese just build to us specs generally	[04:37]
Adlai	the IBM thinkpad is good too, and still running like clockwork, 12 years later	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform golden turd, remember ?	[04:37]
Adlai	although linux may have something to do with this	[04:37]
kakobrekla	golden turd? downed pilot.	[04:38]
mats_cd03	nvm paywalled, don't click that	[04:38]
asciilifeform	running like clockwork, 12 years later << so wat. i've a symbolics 3620 'running like clockwork' 28 years later.	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla "golden phoenix"	[04:38]
Adlai	!	[04:38]
asciilifeform	golden turd corp. - will build anything, yes.	[04:38]
Adlai	do you actually have a lispm?	[04:38]
asciilifeform	!s 3620	[04:38]
assbot	12 results for '3620' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=3620	[04:38]
kakobrekla	Adlai its for sale in bitcoin otc	[04:38]
asciilifeform	Adlai: not only, but it's for sale.	[04:39]
asciilifeform	aha	[04:39]
Adlai	vnhm?	[04:39]
*	Adlai looks in the otc book	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing"	[04:39]
mats_cd03	http://science.slashdot.org/story/14/10/27/1716243/black-swan-author-genetically-modified-organisms-risk-global-ruin << anybody else read this and think taleb is way off base?	[04:39]
mircea_popescu	mats_cd03 as in, didn't understand taleb's point ? or as in what ?	[04:40]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-08-2014#800350	[04:40]
assbot	Logged on 18-08-2014 16:12:29; asciilifeform: but no, somehow, 'gmo' equals what monsanto inc. does.	[04:40]
asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-09-2014#827711	[04:40]
assbot	Logged on 12-09-2014 19:19:30; asciilifeform: except - they aren't banning monsanto garbage. they're banning 'gmo.'	[04:40]
asciilifeform	!s monsanto	[04:40]
Adlai	where? http://bitcoin-otc.com/vieworderbook.php?nick=asciilifeform	[04:40]
assbot	38 results for 'monsanto' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=monsanto	[04:40]
undata	mats_cd03: probably going to need a biologist to get a reasonable response	[04:41]
asciilifeform	Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-09-2014#846475	[04:41]
assbot	Logged on 26-09-2014 23:50:40; asciilifeform: ;;sell 1 "Symbolics 3620 Lisp Machine. Photos: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=51" at 3 btc must pick up in Washington, D.C. area, this item cannot be shipped economically.	[04:41]
undata	who fucking knows; it's like anything with humans. we'll do it, I know that for sure.	[04:41]
undata	and so we'll find out	[04:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform tbh i always wondered about the "shipping economically" part. surely 100lbs worth of various things have been shipped before, even in the us ?	[04:41]
Adlai	ammo!	[04:42]
undata	it's like Elon Musk recently with AI. He's been calling that "potentially more dangerous than nukes"	[04:42]
undata	maybe so, but if it can happen, it will happen	[04:42]
decimation	in the us, with that weight class, one must deal with 'freight operators'	[04:42]
Adlai	asciilifeform: still for sale for 3btc?	[04:42]
mircea_popescu	go go teamsters union for btc!	[04:42]
decimation	can be done, just a pain in the ass	[04:42]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: good question! answer: packing it in such a way as to guarantee safe shipping would be prohibitively expensive. the man i bought it from, david schmidt (last symbolics employee) refuses to ship his remaining stock, after a multitude of DOAs.	[04:42]
kakobrekla	STILL has stock?	[04:43]
asciilifeform	it's been a few years since i asked.	[04:43]
Adlai	(it's not in the b-otc order book anymore)	[04:43]
asciilifeform	write/telephone him.	[04:43]
asciilifeform	yes, still for sale	[04:43]
kakobrekla	just curious, not worthy of bothering the man.	[04:43]
asciilifeform	wtf did the otc go ?	[04:43]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: he loves being bothered.	[04:43]
kakobrekla	asciilifeform expired order?	[04:43]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: ancient grandfather type	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you know such a thing as cpt/cip exists	[04:44]
mircea_popescu	doesn't have to be exw	[04:44]
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asciilifeform	it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase.	[04:44]
asciilifeform	a 100kg ming vase.	[04:44]
decimation	surely symbolics shipped these when they were new	[04:45]
asciilifeform	plus the only way the buyer can be sure that it functions, is to power it on where it stands now.	[04:45]
asciilifeform	otherwise he can say 'scammer, shipped dud'	[04:45]
mircea_popescu	i guess this is a point	[04:45]
asciilifeform	(most of the extant units are duds at this point)	[04:45]
decimation	well, that's a good point, electrolytics and everything like that	[04:45]
asciilifeform	those aren't the problem	[04:45]
asciilifeform	the multitude of card edge connectors, mainly, are, plus the ancient hdd	[04:45]
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mircea_popescu	that should be fixable no ? the card edges	[04:46]
asciilifeform	fixable how?	[04:46]
decimation	connector springs fail?	[04:46]
asciilifeform	if they snap - that's that	[04:46]
asciilifeform	the edges themselves. fiberglass pcb.	[04:46]
decimation	ah	[04:46]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dunno, epoxy paste ?	[04:46]
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mircea_popescu	people can reconstruct tits and virginity. you telling me they can't remake a board edge ?	[04:47]
asciilifeform	also have to appreciate the hdd. if it croaks, an equivalent unit will not actually make the machine go. os can only be installed from tape. i own neither the tape deck nor the tape.	[04:47]
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mircea_popescu	!up JimDowJones	[04:47]
*	assbot gives voice to JimDowJones	[04:47]
asciilifeform	a serious museum curator - such as david s. - could finesse these issues, yes.	[04:47]
Duffer1	asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase >> bonded courier	[04:47]
asciilifeform	this particular machine was, iirc, assembled from surviving parts of the DOAs.	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	Duffer1 he has a point tho, museums routinely pay exorbitant fees to move their fragile shoit around.	[04:48]
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asciilifeform	bonded courier will test box at my house prior to shipment? lol	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yep.	[04:48]
Duffer1	no doubt, sorry i've only followed a few lines of the convo :P	[04:48]
*	assbot gives voice to mike_c	[04:48]
asciilifeform	there are perhaps 20 people on planet qualified to test this machine.	[04:48]
asciilifeform	as in, verify that all the parts actually function.	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	so they will have to hire one.	[04:48]
asciilifeform	as things are now, i expect that it will be brought to my 'peine forte et dure.'	[04:48]
mircea_popescu	undertand, shipping is a solved problem. it just costs money, but it's not the case that consumer mail is all there is.	[04:49]
asciilifeform	i will certainly ask for it...	[04:49]
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asciilifeform	i know full well that it's a solved problem.	[04:49]
BingoBoingo	For a sufficiently exorbitant price I may be willing to serve as courier within CONUS.	[04:49]
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asciilifeform	i am swimming in 'solved problems' that i - in particular - cannot access the solutions to.	[04:49]
asciilifeform	because - elementarily - cost.	[04:49]
mircea_popescu	:D	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	!b 3	[04:50]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3XGFMWV.txt )	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	it's better than swimming in fresh curetage product	[04:50]
mircea_popescu	if only marginally.	[04:50]
asciilifeform	lol	[04:50]
*	assbot gives voice to adlai	[04:50]
asciilifeform	!s shitburial	[04:50]
assbot	3 results for 'shitburial' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=shitburial	[04:50]
*	assbot gives voice to gernika	[04:51]
*	asciilifeform seriously considered donating the box to 'smithsonian'	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	omg kakobrekla bitbet is down!	[04:52]
kakobrekla	ikr.	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	scam finally ran with the bitcoinz ?	[04:52]
kakobrekla	all 4 of them.	[04:52]
mircea_popescu	i knew mp would never pay on that berkshire bet.	[04:52]
decimation	I was listening to this podcast: http://www.theamphour.com/201-cheap-respins-and-a-time-machine-multiscience-mercenary-marketplace/ << the guy from the satellite company said he had to drive his small sats to the shake table	[04:53]
decimation	sats encountered more shock on the road	[04:53]
kakobrekla	hm, some berkshire bettors must be sweating.	[04:53]
mircea_popescu	punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << asciilifeform yes, nobody requires them to send sample units. something like "we're buying atmospheric noise off random.org folks" or "sixty free cs servers, and we suck the urand pool dry" or w/e.	[04:53]
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asciilifeform	point is, why tell tale if no one will believe.	[04:54]
mircea_popescu	i guess.	[04:54]
TheNewDeal	no bitbet mirror?	[04:54]
mircea_popescu	TheNewDeal kako's workin' on it.	[04:54]
mircea_popescu	im just here eating cookies and giving him a hard time.	[04:54]
TheNewDeal	before I can even think it	[04:55]
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Duffer1	usg dossing it?	[04:55]
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mircea_popescu	Duffer1 nah moar like, random derp.	[04:55]
*	nubbins` groans	[04:55]
asciilifeform	decimation: sats encountered more shock on the road << see also the famous film 'longitude'	[04:55]
mircea_popescu	this is beneficial tho, i had some good lolz reading the support tickets earlier in logs	[04:55]
nubbins`	punkman, a code snippet from your deed processing routine plz?	[04:56]
TheNewDeal	example?	[04:56]
Duffer1	i can imagine mp lol	[04:56]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#899087	[04:56]
decimation	yeah most pendulum clocks didn't do well in a swaying ship	[04:56]
assbot	Logged on 28-10-2014 02:16:07; mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut."	[04:56]
Duffer1	panic attacks areen't fun	[04:56]
asciilifeform	decimation: nah, the scene where harrison's opponents contrieve to have his clock shipped from one town to another on a suspension-less oxcart	[04:57]
mircea_popescu	punkbot yeah can deedbot be os yet	[04:57]
TheNewDeal	that link was like dejavu	[04:57]
BingoBoingo	http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1152 << Oh, YCombinator guy who imagines he killed food pretends to do the same for water and sanitation	[04:57]
decimation	asciilifeform: I bet you had alot of sympathy for harrison	[04:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform to make omlet, you need to break eggs!	[04:57]
TheNewDeal	nubbins` was asking for a deed snippet	[04:57]
TheNewDeal	oop was getting trashed	[04:57]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo if only he could be teamed up with templeos guy.	[04:57]
nubbins`	TheNewDeal i'm just trying to verify one of these things but it's hard if i don't know the process	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` you know it was listed like 5 times in da log ? most recently an hour ago ?	[04:58]
TheNewDeal	I feel ya, I would like to learn as well. Seems like an incredibly useful tool	[04:58]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: At least TempleOS is fun in a retro way. Future archaologist may imagine it was actually widely used by a large sect	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo they could solve DREAMS dude.	[04:59]
BingoBoingo	Or make all of the sleep REM	[04:59]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu yeah and there's something more to it than that, because instructions as given don't work	[04:59]
nubbins`	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286	[04:59]
assbot	Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	"don't work" is the best error message, after... anything else.	[05:00]
asciilifeform	'guru meditation error'	[05:00]
mircea_popescu	at least that has a stack trace, something.	[05:01]
nubbins`	fair enough	[05:01]
nubbins`	following the instructions as provided does not result in the same private key	[05:02]
nubbins`	how else would it not work? :S	[05:02]
mircea_popescu	you could list the private key you got.	[05:02]
mircea_popescu	so we can verify you did in fact follow the instruction rather than honestly think you did.	[05:02]
nubbins`	working with genesis deed: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[05:03]
nubbins`	first, sha256sum: fb53b9449532fbca07a611572ae4424932e36c7ce492785a9a028bb019cb78a0	[05:04]
nubbins`	in base58: Hv5NuwL5sSvAvWQWSQGDehN5ysrfPvxoVdosrWfk3kAB	[05:04]
gernika	mircea_popescu: Can you recommend a good neighborhood for a short stay in Buenos Aires?	[05:04]
mircea_popescu	gernika are you rich ?	[05:04]
nubbins`	sha256sum again: 049aebffb61c7f2497a11a1d70bf2756ceb0d1b259823bf1e9b70ff617911325	[05:04]
gernika	no	[05:05]
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nubbins`	base58 again: JyeP2YHXHzHr8HtyAf2cq5bLRMwuKH5hCWBYoPdqrfe	[05:05]
mircea_popescu	gernika if you like to hang out with expats/foreign kids the palermos and perhaps ricoletta.	[05:05]
mircea_popescu	recoleta*	[05:06]
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gernika	mircea_popescu ok. had been looking at palermo.	[05:07]
mircea_popescu	nubbins`'s host kicked him off the internets because he has been posting base58 strings to irc.	[05:07]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` ty!	[05:08]
asciilifeform	you all doing the 'sha(sha(...' by the neck until dead thing?	[05:09]
decimation	maybe he put a comma after?	[05:09]
mircea_popescu	decimation i think he omitted the comma after.	[05:09]
cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/10/ayo-im-tired-of-hearing-people-saying-blockchain-technology/	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.	[05:10]
mircea_popescu	so the more likely hypo is "osx fucks up characters yo!"	[05:12]
*	assbot gives voice to nubbins`	[05:12]
nubbins`	so for a single deed, trailing comma or no?	[05:13]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu impossibru ;p	[05:13]
mircea_popescu	i think always trailing comma, but anyway, your 1st sha is off ?	[05:13]
nubbins`	sec	[05:13]
asciilifeform	fucks up characters yo << recall also how various turdware mutilates quotation marks.	[05:14]
asciilifeform	(not sure if this is at play here)	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	i guess best practice, "1st check deed signature, then hash to verify deed".	[05:15]
mircea_popescu	goose and gander process.	[05:15]
nubbins`	er yeah, i don't get the same shasum as you at all	[05:15]
*	nubbins` frowns	[05:15]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` see how much better life is here in the paradise of proper error messages ?	[05:16]
mircea_popescu	http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator << this agrees with me btw.	[05:16]
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nubbins`	wait, no, there we go	[05:17]
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nubbins`	reading it from a file here produces a different hash	[05:20]
*	nubbins` raises eyebrow	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	clearly you are in charge of your computing.	[05:23]
mircea_popescu	cazalla http://qntra.net/2014/10/ayo-im-tired-of-hearing-people-saying-blockchain-technology/ << nice.	[05:24]
nubbins`	clearly :/	[05:24]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe? << for the record, description is not strictly a belief-driven phenomenon. consider at its most basic, schooling. teacher describes to you grammar. do you believe ? no, if you're in any way sane, not right off. but eventually what was a hypothesis gets tested out.	[05:26]
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mircea_popescu	the wot, incidentally, works on exactly the same premise. one can make any declaration one wishes. it's not believed per se, but that's irrelevant. as time goes by confirmation either mouts or does not.	[05:27]
asciilifeform	in this case - belief.	[05:27]
mircea_popescu	i don't see how a case can be different from any other in a system where "one can make any declaration"	[05:27]
asciilifeform	namely, in the case of the physical coins, the only way to know whether you'll be fucked is - when you are.	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	business is not a matter of certain truth.	[05:28]
BingoBoingo	!b 3	[05:28]
assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/38DD41W.txt )	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	the way to know how long your cock is is to ask god, because obviously measurement will yield an error.	[05:28]
asciilifeform	let's rephase - the only information you will ever get re: being fucked, in the case of the physcoins, is being fucked.	[05:29]
asciilifeform	*rephrase	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	not so. this is like saying "the only way to identify boys from girls is as you're moaning".	[05:29]
asciilifeform	how exactly can mr. physcoin prove that he did not use mersenne twister for N....N+k for some N?	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	you can at the very least obtain the "most likely to fuckceed" information on a set of identifiable, different providers.	[05:30]
asciilifeform	how?	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	compare fuckhistory.	[05:31]
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asciilifeform	for physcoins - that's like measuring proton decay.	[05:31]
asciilifeform	hasn't happened, afaik.	[05:31]
mircea_popescu	incidentally, it occurs to me that while some start-ups succeed, a vast majority suckceed.	[05:31]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this is much weaker than your original statement tho	[05:32]
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asciilifeform	if i recall, that was, that none of these folks have much incentive to speak up re: process	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	and this is a cognate of "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends"	[05:33]
asciilifeform	lol	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	similarly of, "i have no interest signing other people's code"	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	which, incidentally, ima make a post about, cause this is starting to coallesce in my head.	[05:33]
*	asciilifeform has interest! but not for phree	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	brb.	[05:34]
asciilifeform	actually on second thought - better hypothesis for the physcoins - atavistic, Ur-fear of being pwned	[05:34]
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thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends" << WoT isn't Facebook...sigh	[05:34]
*	asciilifeform would sign code, if some loony were to pay what the kind of labour that is involved in honestly signing 'will die by this' actually costs...	[05:35]
*	assbot gives voice to hanbot	[05:35]
asciilifeform	even something as pedestrian as 'valgrind' is laborious for a large turdatronic system.	[05:36]
kakobrekla	actually costs... < well, your life.	[05:36]
asciilifeform	lives - cheap. quality work - costs.	[05:37]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: what's an alternative to Valgrind?	[05:38]
asciilifeform	not using c/cpp/associated hardware.	[05:38]
asciilifeform	and valgrind is not a magic pill	[05:38]
asciilifeform	any more than 'lint' is.	[05:38]
thestringpuller	heh	[05:38]
asciilifeform	(who here even remembers lint.)	[05:38]
mircea_popescu	me.	[05:39]
asciilifeform	^	[05:39]
mod6	me too	[05:39]
*	asciilifeform not alone in lintitude	[05:39]
thestringpuller	you guise r old	[05:40]
mod6	i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium	[05:40]
mod6	*legal too :D	[05:41]
*	Namworld has quit ()	[05:41]
thestringpuller	mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium <<< i was just growing pubes. now I don't feel quite so old.	[05:43]
mod6	heheh	[05:43]
mircea_popescu	i had my first legal drink in... 1990 ? something like that.	[05:44]
cazalla	http://qntra.net/2014/10/as-ipo-fails-breakout-gaming-plan-a-bait-and-switch/	[05:45]
mod6	so the day after the 'billennium', Sept. 9th 2001, I think that was the day that rummy was like "Oops, we somehow misplaced 1tn."	[05:46]
mod6	*the day after	[05:46]
mircea_popescu	one trillion ?	[05:46]
*	dnaleor has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)	[05:46]
mod6	yeah. i was like "holy shit! is this guy kidding?! how do you do that?!"	[05:47]
thestringpuller	Didn't a shipping container with 100 billion or so get lost in Iraq in the early 2000's as well?	[05:47]
*	darlidada has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[05:47]
thestringpuller	nvm 12 bn	[05:47]
asciilifeform	in genuine benjies no less	[05:47]
thestringpuller	http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1	[05:47]
undata	in the movie, the CIA stole it and started ISIS with it	[05:48]
nubbins`	okay, i just wasn't stripping newline from eof	[05:49]
nubbins`	so 1st shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0	[05:49]
nubbins`	to base58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX	[05:49]
nubbins`	second shasum: 581beb0a0aec036351e239da11595fe67c1cf5dc817019716999f2040b96e84f	[05:49]
mod6	ok, actually, it was 2.3tn	[05:49]
*	mod6 laughs	[05:49]
nubbins`	now what?	[05:49]
asciilifeform	'Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."'	[05:50]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` now import it ?	[05:51]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform win.	[05:51]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu according to deeds.bitcoin-assets.com i'm supposed to end up with the brainwallet passphrase "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ"	[05:51]
TheNewDeal	is it sha > sha > base58?	[05:51]
mod6	i remember watching it on tv	[05:51]
nubbins`	but i don't know how to get from the second shasum to that	[05:52]
mod6	they probably 1984'd it	[05:52]
nubbins`	TheNewDeal sha > base58 > sha > ???	[05:52]
TheNewDeal	sorry, was just a guess	[05:52]
nubbins`	> brainwallet passphrase > private key	[05:52]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` another 58 in there no ?	[05:53]
nubbins`	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897286	[05:54]
assbot	Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key	[05:54]
nubbins`	beats me!	[05:54]
mircea_popescu	a ok, so 2nd sha is the privkey. import it nao ?	[05:54]
nubbins`	doing an additional base58 doesn't produce BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[05:54]
nubbins`	2nd sha is not the privkey afaict	[05:55]
nubbins`	privkey is 5HsNWxt5bbBiSvVWbtXMBcoQTzfXgqyPEmDWcAymXdu1o9edra3	[05:55]
mircea_popescu	how do you know that ?	[05:55]
mod6	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-F5NKAMdFc&feature=youtu.be&t=1m32s	[05:56]
nubbins`	because that's the private key generated from brainwallet passphrase BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[05:56]
mircea_popescu	why's brainwallet passphrase enter in here ?	[05:56]
nubbins`	o.O	[05:56]
nubbins`	http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[05:56]
nubbins`	https://brainwallet.github.io/	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` i don't get it ?	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	explain to me like i'm a nubbin!	[05:57]
nubbins`	:D	[05:57]
nubbins`	you put BXZ... into passphrase box	[05:57]
nubbins`	privkey 5HsN... comes up	[05:57]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[05:57]
nubbins`	pub address 149LB... comes up	[05:57]
nubbins`	since 149LB... is the public address indicated on the deed	[05:58]
mircea_popescu	you mean to tell me you reverse-engineered the privkey on the basis of the address ?	[05:58]
nubbins`	no, i mean to tell you i put the deed ID into brainwallet.org and it spit out the associated public address	[05:58]
*	DreadKnight has quit (Quit: #AncientBeast - Master Your Beasts ( www.AncientBeast.com ))	[05:59]
nubbins`	if the deed ID is not a brainwallet passphrase, the laws of probability have broken down	[05:59]
mircea_popescu	149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 specifically ?	[05:59]
nubbins`	http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[05:59]
nubbins`	https://brainwallet.github.io/	[06:00]
mircea_popescu	i seem to get 1EppwHWgqBVo9TdZmLWjpNMp7w5zyrKokB ?	[06:00]
nubbins`	you entering BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ into "passphrase" textbox?	[06:01]
mircea_popescu	yes.	[06:01]
*	nubbins` raises eyebrow	[06:01]
mircea_popescu	3ab7aea90551ed0bebc37b66dae9ff9f89e60e15d9cc85ab76c922322a88b033 5JG9SZLueh5AcJEvMeZrNT3oHEd27hhUrFydq4EVVWC2RoXFc3S	[06:01]
mircea_popescu	1D37yABoLo7Ma4LeR6jW8ZhJxLXdQmsbsH if i select compressed.	[06:01]
nubbins`	uh	[06:02]
nubbins`	if you enter kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA ?	[06:02]
mircea_popescu	19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn / 1G7XajvC1SChrQqBzVG7mDMkAaiT1jWU4G	[06:02]
*	nubbins` raises other eyebrow	[06:02]
nubbins`	anyone else around?	[06:02]
mircea_popescu	careful you might run out.	[06:02]
Duffer1	moo?	[06:02]
dub	i agree with nubbins`	[06:03]
nubbins`	Duffer1 http://brainwallet.github.io	[06:03]
nubbins`	try passphrases kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA and BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[06:03]
nubbins`	paste addresses here	[06:03]
Duffer1	1P2vYukzmiGp5B7otkDakvubVFmkiv7b3y	[06:03]
mircea_popescu	o.O	[06:04]
nubbins`	...	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` dude srsly you ended up with the magic salt	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	fell on the exact bundle pw ?	[06:04]
*	nubbins` slowly reaches for gun	[06:04]
nubbins`	no man	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	do you even know what the odds are ?!	[06:04]
nubbins`	http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawa	[06:04]
mike_c	13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64	[06:04]
nubbins`	kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA as passphrase produces 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e	[06:04]
mircea_popescu	what the shit.	[06:05]
nubbins`	mike_c: +1	[06:05]
Duffer1	fascinating	[06:05]
nubbins`	something's fucked somewhere	[06:05]
nubbins`	with several of you	[06:05]
mircea_popescu	19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn <<<	[06:05]
mircea_popescu	let me take a ss just in case.	[06:05]
mircea_popescu	maybe im putting it in the wrong hole.	[06:05]
nubbins`	http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/196PrJjLTjXNNGLZsyT4YYdhA2b2EQjbZ3	[06:06]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/brainlollet.png <	[06:06]
nubbins`	er sorry	[06:06]
BingoBoingo	I thought brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time	[06:07]
mircea_popescu	it has been, yes	[06:07]
mircea_popescu	this seems a novel sparkle tho	[06:07]
mod6	yikes	[06:07]
nubbins`	wtf?	[06:07]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` am i doing it right ?	[06:08]
nubbins`	yes	[06:08]
mircea_popescu	lemme paste the js	[06:08]
mike_c	mircea_popescu: whitespace matters	[06:08]
nubbins`	http://i.imgur.com/OJXD9dP.png	[06:08]
mircea_popescu	mike_c where ?	[06:08]
*	Transisto has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[06:08]
Duffer1	13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64	[06:08]
mircea_popescu	i have no whitespace.	[06:08]
mike_c	in the passphrase.. if you have any	[06:08]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu i verified w/ a brainwallet generator i wrote myself	[06:09]
nubbins`	:s	[06:09]
mircea_popescu	so im on the brainwallet orphan chain over here ?	[06:09]
*	nubbins` throws up hands	[06:09]
mike_c	doge-brain	[06:09]
nubbins`	i have no idea what your cpu is smoking	[06:09]
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mircea_popescu	i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d -	[06:10]
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mircea_popescu	it can't be the case it can hash here but not there, my cpu	[06:10]
nubbins`	i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d -	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	right.	[06:11]
dub	someone swapped your CPU for a potato	[06:11]
mike_c	this has gotta be a JS thing.	[06:11]
nubbins`	just put a single "1" in the passphrase	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	where ?	[06:11]
nubbins`	brainwallet.github.io	[06:11]
mircea_popescu	oh, make passphrase = 1	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	17oEDveGfjVDuMyxbTHT6vw1Qvu2w2k9aV	[06:12]
mike_c	12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	obviously.	[06:12]
nubbins`	12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ	[06:12]
dub	12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ	[06:12]
nubbins`	hahahah	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	well...	[06:12]
nubbins`	protip: "secret exponent" = sha256sum	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	5a692302f4231563cfeedaec090567e2477cebfa67d27d016a017bcd64c01911 5JW712UGBYBxp3UGNSzcQBGnPdpAsQMRKcczWJP8SJ65hiHV5WU	[06:12]
nubbins`	if your secret exponent is not 6b86b273ff34fce19d6b804eff5a3f5747ada4eaa22f1d49c01e52ddb7875b4b then something is borked	[06:12]
mircea_popescu	something is defo borked.	[06:13]
nubbins`	well i guess your week just got interesting	[06:13]
mircea_popescu	i guess it helps that i just wasn't using braindamage.org anyway	[06:13]
nubbins`	anyway. does anyone know how the fuck deeds generates these brainwallet passphrases? :D	[06:13]
nubbins`	'cause i'm at a loss	[06:14]
asciilifeform	brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time << brainwallet is a fully-automatic iq test.	[06:15]
BingoBoingo	!b 1	[06:15]
assbot	Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1MVA1HS.txt )	[06:15]
nubbins`	seems like punkbot is the iq tes	[06:16]
nubbins`	t	[06:16]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/braindamage.txt << js dump if anyone cares.	[06:17]
asciilifeform	unrelated: https://archive.org/details/HowToStartYourOwnCountry << a little riot of a book. no-bullshit guide to (failed) attempts at ab initio sovereignty. (i met the author in person, incidentally. fun fella.)	[06:17]
*	asciilifeform never knew it was on the net, was actually about to w4r3z sc4n it & post, then found...	[06:18]
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*	Lycerion (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:21]
TheNewDeal	what in the hell is that	[06:22]
asciilifeform	TheNewDeal: old book.	[06:22]
TheNewDeal	nonono, the js dump	[06:22]
asciilifeform	deedbot?	[06:22]
TheNewDeal	thats what this is http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/braindamage.txt < ?	[06:23]
asciilifeform	or possibly 'brainwallet' ?	[06:23]
TheNewDeal	ahh	[06:23]
*	mike_c has quit ()	[06:23]
asciilifeform	aha brainwallet.	[06:23]
nubbins`	deeds is voodoo	[06:28]
nubbins`	50 satoshi says it's generating random addresses	[06:28]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/in-which-codewhores-and-camwhores/ << asciilifeform, everyone.	[06:29]
mircea_popescu	TheNewDeal it's the dump of js as loaded on my system, because somehow it doesn't come to the same results as other people here.	[06:31]
mircea_popescu	yes, brainwallet.org thing	[06:32]
*	asciilifeform oils, waits for clients	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	lol	[06:32]
mircea_popescu	*actual results could significantly differ	[06:33]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i may have said this in the past, but this is rather like my 'elephant procurement company' (gedankenexperiment)	[06:34]
mircea_popescu	( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3PXiV95kwA source )	[06:34]
asciilifeform	i.e., i will procure elephants in a day, but no one will like what it costs.	[06:34]
asciilifeform	('this' being my - so far hypothetical - little shop of ho^h^hcode review)	[06:35]
asciilifeform	but, at least it promises never to substitute chair leg with sticker 'elephant' on it.	[06:36]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu fwiw the function calc_hash() in your pasted JS is the one doing the lifting	[06:37]
nubbins`	var hash = Crypto.SHA256($('#pass').val(), { asBytes: true });	[06:37]
nubbins`	$('#hash').val(Crypto.util.bytesToHex(hash));	[06:37]
ben_vulpes	ricoletta << haw	[06:38]
nubbins`	you may be interested to paste a passphrase and in your JS console, type $('#pass').val()	[06:38]
mircea_popescu	no dragonfly here tho.	[06:39]
nubbins`	no chrome install either, i suppose?	[06:40]
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mircea_popescu	heh. nope	[06:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu is on doom-playing box!	[06:41]
nubbins`	well i guess you just can't trust random web pages to generate your brainwallets ;D	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` which works just as well, as i don't,	[06:41]
mircea_popescu	HOWEVER! it would seem to me this arrangement i got is actually stronger than youze	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	because if i were to use it, and you did get my pw... you still couldn't steal my monyz ?	[06:42]
nubbins`	certainly prevents dem fundz from being stole	[06:42]
nubbins`	"best locks in the world"	[06:42]
mircea_popescu	can.not.be.opened.	[06:42]
nubbins`	"where's the keys?" "what?"	[06:42]
asciilifeform	you still couldn't steal my monyz << reminds me of all the folks with misaligned heads on their floppy drives	[06:42]
asciilifeform	disk would read on given unit and only there.	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the frist time this happened, 5 inch drives, 11yo or so me & friends	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	it was fucking nuts	[06:43]
asciilifeform	aha.	[06:43]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)	[06:43]
asciilifeform	where do you think i stepped in it.	[06:43]
mircea_popescu	we took the unit on a sneakernet see what happens at everyone's house	[06:43]
nubbins`	;;later tell punkman plz to provide complete pseudocode for deeds	[06:44]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[06:44]
asciilifeform	this happened, perhaps three or four times, to mine, same era; father took it each time to a greasemonkey in some illicit cellar; it would come back - wrapped in a filthy oilrag - aligned.	[06:45]
asciilifeform	(never saw anything but ru drives misalign.)	[06:46]
*	BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:46]
*	assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo	[06:47]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'The benefits of which one can’t evaluate, the drawbacks of which are certain.' >> obligatory >> http://www.antarctic-circle.org/Shackadvert2.jpg	[06:48]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there actually existed special allignment disks	[06:48]
mircea_popescu	you could fix the thing with a steady hand and an amp	[06:49]
asciilifeform	greasemonkey probably had.	[06:49]
ben_vulpes	http://www.antarctic-circle.org/Shackadvert2.jpg << sounds familiar	[06:49]
asciilifeform	today - i'd align the bugger myself	[06:49]
asciilifeform	it'd be a diversion.	[06:49]
mircea_popescu	quite.	[06:49]
asciilifeform	but today, other toys.	[06:49]
*	joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[06:50]
asciilifeform	familiar << because ~everyone alive has seen it ?	[06:50]
mircea_popescu	for any good definition of "alive".	[06:50]
asciilifeform	aha.	[06:50]
decimation	asciilifeform: they were gonna launch a rocket tonight, visible from your house	[06:51]
asciilifeform	where?	[06:51]
nubbins`	.deed http://dpaste.com/0V5CXWK.txt	[06:51]
punkbot	nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again.	[06:51]
decimation	chincoteague	[06:51]
nubbins`	oh ya, must be signed	[06:51]
nubbins`	so much for testing simple case	[06:51]
decimation	wallops island, one of the orbital rockets	[06:52]
ben_vulpes	good god this log	[06:52]
ben_vulpes	what have you been doing	[06:52]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes it's not as big as it seems.	[06:52]
decimation	interestingly, it uses "AJ-26" engines, which were 'commercially purchased' by usg from... the soviet moon program	[06:52]
asciilifeform	rocket << must've missed.	[06:52]
decimation	turns out they were sitting surplus in ukraine for 30 years	[06:52]
ben_vulpes	;;later tell pete_dushenski lol negatron brogrammer	[06:52]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[06:52]
decimation	now the grassfuckers in charge buy them and call it 'commercial technology'	[06:53]
asciilifeform	eh, fire sale.	[06:53]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: i dropped out	[06:53]
ben_vulpes	;;calc 9234 - 8414	[06:53]
gribble	820	[06:53]
ben_vulpes	lines ago	[06:53]
ben_vulpes	HERE WE GO	[06:53]
decimation	we need to move off irc and onto a radio net	[06:53]
asciilifeform	rocket << rescheduled apparently	[06:53]
mircea_popescu	grassfuckers, this is a notable innovation.	[06:54]
decimation	yeah there was a boat in the 'no-boat' box	[06:54]
asciilifeform	https://blogs.nasa.gov/orbital	[06:54]
decimation	I think they are gonna try tomorrow	[06:54]
decimation	i'm sure it will be very bright and visible if it is a clear night	[06:54]
mircea_popescu	decimation are you going to fly any pilot drones around it ?	[06:54]
decimation	not me, I'm a zek	[06:54]
ben_vulpes	it's as if we were still using teletype << funny story, biz partner bought hisself some gps chips	[06:54]
ben_vulpes	had loads of fun discovering the parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate etc	[06:55]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes no fucking way today's log is 10k	[06:55]
decimation	I bought a chip that puts out 1pps to discipline my ovenized quartz oscillator	[06:55]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu: lol off by 10x	[06:55]
asciilifeform	parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate << i can recite these in my sleep now.	[06:55]
ben_vulpes	me, i mean	[06:55]
decimation	talk about ancient terminal cruft	[06:55]
ben_vulpes	wait no actually mircea_popescu u	[06:56]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i always found it interesting that synchronous serial (between machines, notably) never caught on.	[06:56]
ben_vulpes	in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more. << so relevant	[06:56]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead. << it's all a function of the small amounts of quantity involved.	[06:56]
decimation	asciilifeform: it is used in golden toilet projects	[06:57]
asciilifeform	in golden toilets, usually items like 'can bus'	[06:57]
asciilifeform	and the .mil equivalnet	[06:57]
ben_vulpes	<< that this is not should have been enough to prevent !ups	[06:57]
asciilifeform	*equivalent	[06:57]
decimation	http://us.brainboxes.com/product/cc-530/2-port-rs422-485-pci-card-up-to-15-megabaud	[06:57]
asciilifeform	nope.	[06:58]
asciilifeform	pisses out bits, does not wait for ack	[06:58]
decimation	ah I thought you meant synchronous with the clock line	[06:58]
decimation	http://jproc.ca/crypto/kit223.html << "* Ternary, Binary, (RS-232); or RS-422 "	[06:59]
asciilifeform	brainfart	[06:59]
decimation	apparently usg uses ternary serial	[07:00]
asciilifeform	classic teletype was 2x1trit	[07:00]
mircea_popescu	jurov: instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars <<< ftr i hate this idea.	[07:00]
ben_vulpes	(summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.) << gripping hand?	[07:00]
mircea_popescu	stop making special characters yo. it doesn't scale.	[07:01]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: they used some telepathic voodoo	[07:01]
decimation	asciilifeform: you know what the 'third' charcter was used for?	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	in point of fact, fucking in 3some with me there IS the only really fun thing	[07:01]
ben_vulpes	tbf i forget the nuances	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	fortunately, i don't scale.	[07:01]
decimation	parsing blocks of data...	[07:01]
decimation	delimiting blocks of data I should say	[07:01]
mircea_popescu	coinchimp.com << this website tried to hump my leg.	[07:02]
Duffer1	asciilifeform xenogenesis trilogy?	[07:03]
asciilifeform	Duffer1: aha	[07:03]
ben_vulpes	dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django << so much to this	[07:03]
ben_vulpes	undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js << RECANT	[07:03]
mircea_popescu	djanga lol.	[07:03]
mircea_popescu	like ganja for dyslexics	[07:04]
decimation	I've tried using some of those python 'frameworks'	[07:04]
decimation	ends up in the garbage	[07:04]
decimation	there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody	[07:04]
asciilifeform	decimation: 3^3 == 27, can now type.	[07:04]
decimation	asciilifeform: you are implying you can encode the entire alphabet evenly	[07:05]
mircea_popescu	there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody << word. this is EXACTLY the dynamic involved.	[07:05]
*	asciilifeform can't picture 'django' without picturing the tarantino film	[07:05]
mircea_popescu	psychologically immature fucktards trying to protect themselves from their own insecurity with the world at large.	[07:05]
mircea_popescu	BUT at least back when they were making django they weren't making systemd	[07:05]
ben_vulpes	* asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS	[07:06]
ben_vulpes	> non retarded object system	[07:06]
ben_vulpes	> common lisp	[07:06]
*	asciilifeform invites anyone, anywhere, to make this statement false	[07:06]
ben_vulpes	> not sure if trolled	[07:06]
asciilifeform	entirely serious.	[07:06]
ben_vulpes	there's a non retarded object system?	[07:06]
asciilifeform	if i can't meta-object, it's retarded	[07:06]
asciilifeform	and, so far, there's precisely one - where can.	[07:06]
ben_vulpes	meta object?	[07:07]
ben_vulpes	lol 2 lines down	[07:07]
decimation	asciilifeform: on a teletype it's easy to send ternary, just add another symbol	[07:07]
asciilifeform	!s kiczales	[07:07]
assbot	0 results for 'kiczales' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=kiczales	[07:07]
decimation	traditionally they were 2-tone fsk, add another tone	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes see, parsing is not as good as compiling.	[07:07]
asciilifeform	!s metaobject	[07:07]
assbot	0 results for 'metaobject' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=metaobject	[07:07]
asciilifeform	wtf	[07:07]
mircea_popescu	come back tomorrow ?	[07:07]
ben_vulpes	search is a day slow	[07:07]
ben_vulpes	interpreting beats compiling again	[07:07]
*	nubbins` has quit (Quit: Quit)	[07:08]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: interpreting << my cl system has no interpreter at all.	[07:08]
mircea_popescu	nubsy quits too much. why are canadians such quitters ?	[07:08]
ben_vulpes	i kid, i kid.	[07:08]
ben_vulpes	major bender or something. << unlike our regular minor benders	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	decimation: why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits? << gpg escapes the dash because it uses a dash-cvomposite as a special char.	[07:09]
decimation	yeah, I see the bind they were in	[07:09]
ben_vulpes	cvomposite - is that a cvasi composite?!	[07:09]
decimation	need to send 7-bit ascii to denote limit	[07:09]
mircea_popescu	lol	[07:10]
mircea_popescu	cvoopositor.	[07:10]
*	napedia (~napedia@unaffiliated/napedia) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:10]
ben_vulpes	CvLOS	[07:10]
decimation	still, there are plenty of control characters they could have used	[07:10]
decimation	like 0x02	[07:10]
asciilifeform	decimation: nope.	[07:10]
decimation	why not?	[07:11]
asciilifeform	decimation: try it on your terminal / cut&paste system / www turdamatic	[07:11]
ben_vulpes	the GIL is good << aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah	[07:11]
asciilifeform	... email gizmo, bidet.	[07:11]
mircea_popescu	nah, they get wiped everywhere	[07:11]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)	[07:11]
asciilifeform	^	[07:11]
decimation	yeah that's enraging	[07:11]
mircea_popescu	you can't even rely on /n staying put	[07:11]
mircea_popescu	constantly s/ // etc	[07:11]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: recall rng model 1 test ?	[07:11]
mircea_popescu	yeah lol. it even got us.	[07:11]
decimation	here's 32 control characters that you can't use.	[07:11]
*	asciilifeform digs for link	[07:12]
asciilifeform	fscking retardatrons drop chars silently	[07:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what'd you have them do, replace it with Q ?	[07:12]
ben_vulpes	yes, still for sale << fucking rob him already	[07:12]
ben_vulpes	if its so damn valuable	[07:12]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it occurs to me... since it can only be picked up in person, you should trade it for sex.	[07:13]
asciilifeform	l0l	[07:13]
decimation	so I guess the alternative is to base64 encode the patches?	[07:17]
asciilifeform	retch	[07:17]
ben_vulpes	recoleta* << and where for the fleeing usian pauper?	[07:17]
*	dignork has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes chacarrita ?	[07:17]
*	dignork- (~dignork@gateway/tor-sasl/dignork) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:17]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform better idea : base-x encode, x = version number.	[07:18]
ben_vulpes	i liked belgrano, seemed modest.	[07:18]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes about the same place.	[07:19]
decimation	why not use ITA2	[07:20]
decimation	if we want to be backwards compatible, might as well go back to 1920's era teletype machines	[07:21]
*	FabianB_ (~fabian@unaffiliated/fabianb) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:21]
ben_vulpes	anyways	[07:22]
ben_vulpes	did anyone get in touch with bluematt?	[07:22]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes who'd go over you to do it ? an' why ?	[07:23]
ben_vulpes	well put that way	[07:23]
*	FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[07:24]
ben_vulpes	;;gpginfo bluematt	[07:24]
gribble	Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.	[07:24]
ben_vulpes	;;seen bluematt	[07:24]
gribble	I have not seen bluematt.	[07:24]
decimation	ben_vulpes: is the latest patch still yours? I haven't seen mention of others	[07:25]
ben_vulpes	decimation: calling that a patch is charitable - more an excision	[07:26]
ben_vulpes	and i've no idea if it's the most recent - there's no patch tracking tooling in place	[07:27]
decimation	no worries. I find the stripped-down distribution much easier to study	[07:28]
ben_vulpes	i'm studying the regtest phenomena of 0.8.whatever	[07:29]
ben_vulpes	it's glued in with the glass of the chainparams class	[07:29]
ben_vulpes	my rage is indescribeable	[07:30]
ben_vulpes	now not only must i study testnet but also this regtest thing	[07:31]
ben_vulpes	and, by proxy, chainparams.	[07:31]
ben_vulpes	it's not so bad, clearly.	[07:31]
ben_vulpes	mircea_popescu would have that by the act of complaining i bring down more cpp upon my own back	[07:31]
decimation	what's regtest do?	[07:34]
*	joecool (~joecool@no-sources/joecool) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[07:34]
ben_vulpes	chain generation off network.	[07:34]
ben_vulpes	"regression testing"	[07:34]
decimation	heh	[07:35]
ben_vulpes	if you dig into chainparams and main.cpp (iirc) you'll find such joys as the "stop generating a chain after 1 block is found so that...reasons"	[07:35]
decimation	lol	[07:35]
ben_vulpes	the thing isn't actually all that impossible to reason about	[07:35]
decimation	so is 0.5.3 incompatible with the existing testnet?	[07:36]
ben_vulpes	just - find all the places in which there's a testnet mention and try to figure out how to implement an off-network chain	[07:36]
ben_vulpes	obviously the answer is a class with state safely segregated within it	[07:36]
ben_vulpes	decimation: have not yet tested, do not think that is the case.	[07:36]
ben_vulpes	well, logged up	[07:39]
*	CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)	[07:39]
ben_vulpes	i'll mail matt tomorrow	[07:40]
ben_vulpes	http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x0A82509767C7D4A5D14DA2301AE1D35043E08E54	[07:40]
ben_vulpes	AT ALL OF HIS EMAILS	[07:40]
mircea_popescu	my rage is indescribeable <<< i have an intuition.	[07:47]
mircea_popescu	lol	[07:48]
mircea_popescu	speaking of which, is charter signed and deed'd yet ?	[07:48]
mircea_popescu	ahaha these are great!	[07:53]
hanbot	:D	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	bwahhah oh that pot. win.	[07:55]
mircea_popescu	"Feces are almost entirely deceased gut bacteria and water. I massacred my gut bacteria the day before by consuming a DIY Soylent version with no fiber and taking 500mg of Rifaximin, an antibiotic with poor bioavailability, meaning it stays in your gut and kills bacteria. Soylent’s microbiome consultant advised that this is a terrible idea so I do not recommend it. However, it worked. Throughout the challenge I did n	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	ot defecate."	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	im not entirely sure why this sort of idiot is being maintained on artificial life support.	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	usg, you whore of bezzleatron, you got some 'splainin to do.	[07:57]
mircea_popescu	"In lieu of showering I sprayed myself with AOBiome’s custom skin bacteria blend. Body odor is caused by the emissions of proliferating skin bacteria, as unique as a fingerprint. The Nitrosomonas eutropha taking over my skin now metabolizes ammonia into odorless nitrite and nitric oxide. Success!"	[07:58]
*	asciilifeform channels BingoBoingo to suggest humane ballistic pill for sufferer described above	[07:58]
thestringpuller	Who the fuck eats Soylent with no fiber in it?	[07:59]
mircea_popescu	this idiot.	[07:59]
thestringpuller	Jesus these idiots who don't know how to feed themselves are starting to just baffle me.	[07:59]
hanbot	i don't mind idiots experimenting on themselves, but the access to podium has gotta go.	[08:00]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ?	[08:00]
*	petahash (~petahash@d173-183-96-243.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:01]
mircea_popescu	!up petahash	[08:01]
-assbot-	You voiced petahash for 30 minutes.	[08:01]
*	assbot gives voice to petahash	[08:01]
asciilifeform	idiots experimenting on themselves << we all experiment on selves.	[08:01]
asciilifeform	writing about it - another matter	[08:01]
asciilifeform	e.g., http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-09-2014#824100	[08:02]
assbot	Logged on 10-09-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: used own replica of old soviet mask, anode on eyelids, cathode on occiput	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	this is not experimenting.	[08:02]
mircea_popescu	experimenting is still a term of art.	[08:02]
undata	mircea_popescu: germs are dirty; obviously he's as clean as possible	[08:02]
thestringpuller	asciilifeform: writing about it - another matter << reminds of the people who take lots of psychedelic drugs and put the doses, timeline, and effects in a journal.	[08:03]
mircea_popescu	as stupid as possible, granted. once that is granted, nothing else can further be achieved. he can't be anything "as much as possible" hence.	[08:03]
asciilifeform	thestringpuller: alex shulgin ?	[08:03]
*	undata is waiting for the inevitable early deaths of the soylent believers	[08:04]
mircea_popescu	eh, the curse of technology. nobody fucking dies for being stupid anymore.	[08:05]
undata	http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/03/article-2780022-1DBFAFC600000578-405_634x422.jpg << doesn't he have a bit of a weird flush to him?	[08:05]
asciilifeform	nope, the death is on instalment plan.	[08:05]
BingoBoingo	Dude's colon is going to have more yeast than a brewery	[08:06]
undata	vice looked into their "factory" and found rats and mold	[08:06]
*	asciilifeform recalls reading of 'internal brewery' disease that leaves sufferer permanently pickled	[08:06]
mircea_popescu	waitwut ?!	[08:07]
undata	asciilifeform: yeah, causes you to be drunk, right?	[08:07]
asciilifeform	there's a non-zero natural output of EtOH	[08:07]
undata	http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/09/17/223345977/auto-brewery-syndrome-apparently-you-can-make-beer-in-your-gut	[08:07]
asciilifeform	there we go.	[08:07]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Every now and then someone's digestive system has alcohol producing yeast become the dominant microflora	[08:07]
asciilifeform	year after year, i wait for a report of someone bottling this beer.	[08:08]
mircea_popescu	sounds kinda unhealthy	[08:08]
asciilifeform	it is inevitable.	[08:08]
BingoBoingo	Incredibly unhealthy	[08:08]
*	mircea_popescu comes from cattle country, is proud carrier of long-selected lactoguys	[08:08]
undata	asciilifeform: ha, the gut beer? shudder	[08:08]
undata	but if people will drink this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak	[08:09]
asciilifeform	aha 'monkey coffee'	[08:10]
asciilifeform	well-known.	[08:10]
asciilifeform	does pediwikia have 'list of foods which are literally shit' ?	[08:10]
undata	I question anyone without an aversion to shit	[08:10]
undata	asciilifeform: almost certainly	[08:10]
mircea_popescu	undata women develop tolerance, you know.	[08:11]
undata	seems necessary	[08:12]
undata	I still question them	[08:12]
undata	reminds me of my twin sisters in diapers, cribs opposite each other in their room	[08:13]
undata	I come home from school and they've had a shit war, hurled it at each other	[08:13]
BingoBoingo	rifampicin seems like an exceedingly poor choice for a colonocaust	[08:13]
undata	I learned something about life that day.	[08:13]
BingoBoingo	Traditional used against C.Diff is normally Vancomycin	[08:13]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i don't suspect the guy actually acts rationally.	[08:14]
*	petahash has quit (Quit: Leaving.)	[08:15]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: That was given when he decided to sacrifice taking healthy shits for "water" conservation.	[08:15]
*	asciilifeform read that piece, assumed this stunt was 'on a bet' or the like	[08:15]
asciilifeform	if anyone has similar bet in the future,	[08:17]
asciilifeform	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-06-2014#722626	[08:17]
assbot	Logged on 18-06-2014 00:35:11; Mats_cd03: after 1 no pill a day for 4 days during a field exercise, i was literally full of shit	[08:17]
asciilifeform	^ cheaper method.	[08:17]
mircea_popescu	unrelated, http://40.media.tumblr.com/e4e0d98960f22144fd64a840fc10b61b/tumblr_mi30xlcPrf1qhwfqoo1_500.jpg	[08:18]
BingoBoingo	The classes of bacteria intrisically unaffected by rifampicin includes many unpleasant members. It seems the biggest class though is enterobacteria... so named because they are often normal intestinal flora...	[08:19]
*	Duffer1 has quit (Quit: Duffer1)	[08:19]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'ilsa the she-wolf' ?	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	adam robertson shot. no idea who the chick is	[08:20]
mircea_popescu	https://twitter.com/_MissMiranda < her.	[08:20]
*	hanbot has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[08:20]
undata	weird nostrils	[08:21]
*	DreadKnight (~DreadKnig@unaffiliated/dreadknight) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:22]
mircea_popescu	http://36.media.tumblr.com/a732d5f00de5cd0650434edcade808f9/tumblr_n8vwreF1mK1rmrwgqo1_500.jpg << the latest in french coiffure.	[08:22]
*	pete_dushenski (~pete_dush@unaffiliated/pete-dushenski/x-8158685) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:24]
*	assbot gives voice to pete_dushenski	[08:25]
*	smidge (~smiddel@HSI-KBW-078-043-193-229.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:27]
*	OneFixt_ (~OneFixt@unaffiliated/onefixt) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[08:27]
pete_dushenski	"Arthur Levitt, the longest-serving chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, is joining the advisory boards of two bitcoin-focused companies. As an adviser to Atlanta-based BitPay, a bitcoin payment processor, and Vaurum, a Palo Alto-based bitcoin exchange for institutional investors..."	[08:28]
*	OneFixt has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)	[08:29]
pete_dushenski	dear cazalla http://pastebin.com/ZkaJe0fg	[08:30]
asciilifeform	incidentally, is there any alternate hypothesis re: bitpay that does not involve it being a btc intake valve for usg's 'waterfall' dumpatron?	[08:32]
BingoBoingo	;;later tell hanbot I submitted an answer to your comment que	[08:33]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[08:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform they didn't start as one. but anyway, either their cash runs out in a few months or it does not.	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	if it does not, the explanation available is exactly one.	[08:34]
asciilifeform	^	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	not like atlanta is crawling with rich, entrepreneurial-minded folks or anything.	[08:34]
mircea_popescu	Actually, what you really need is a platform that’s a community of communities. Ideally with cleverly designed software that can handle each community’s individual epistemology (something like Moldbug’s idea of ‘factional reputation’	[08:35]
mircea_popescu	dude seriously ? "moldbug's idea of the wot" ?	[08:35]
mircea_popescu	i think the one thing i can stand least about usians is not directly their ignorance, but their bald faced, undisturbedly firm conviction that being a clueless git is a-okay.	[08:36]
mircea_popescu	"what do you mean the world didn't start a day before i was born ?!?!!?!?!?!"	[08:36]
BingoBoingo	sha256 of my guess on which trilema url hanbot wrote about 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08	[08:38]
BingoBoingo	md4 for people with things to do, 1ca610d4844aed110d163cdc14b987fc	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08	[08:39]
mircea_popescu	yup, same guess.	[08:39]
BingoBoingo	K	[08:40]
punkman	http://dpaste.com/0Z5HQ2H if anyone feels like sweeping some deedbot tests	[08:42]
mircea_popescu	punkman see your pms, apparently ppl can't go from deeds to privkey ?	[08:42]
punkman	lies	[08:44]
punkman	bundle: BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ	[08:46]
punkman	sha256 of bundle: 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	0.0	[08:46]
punkman	brainwallet from exponent	[08:46]
punkman	149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64	[08:46]
mircea_popescu	punkman incidentally, why is "brainwallet" shoehorned in there ?	[08:47]
punkman	I dont use brainwallet, just trying to generate with diff tools	[08:47]
punkman	http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/bundle/149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 ^ matches just fine	[08:47]
mircea_popescu	how did you get 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d ? sha of the raw deed + a comma ?	[08:49]
punkman	no comma if single deed in bundle	[08:49]
punkman	just sha256 the BXZ... string	[08:50]
punkman	not sha256sum	[08:50]
mircea_popescu	uh ?!	[08:50]
punkman	errm dunno actually, does sha256sum add checksums?	[08:51]
mircea_popescu	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#899373	[08:52]
assbot	Logged on 28-10-2014 03:08:02; mircea_popescu: 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case.	[08:52]
punkman	echo -n BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ \| sha256sum == 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	wait	[08:53]
mircea_popescu	you hash the bx? how you got tht ?	[08:53]
punkman	that is a deed hash, the "lite" bundle is all the deed hashes	[08:54]
punkman	if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed	[08:54]
mircea_popescu	so. you take the deed as is, and base58 it ?	[08:55]
punkman	anyway, README on the way	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	kk.	[08:55]
mircea_popescu	ima be back laters.	[08:55]
adlai	ben_vulpes \| the GIL is good << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aadlai+the+GIL+is+good pls	[08:58]
assbot	0 results for 'from:adlai the GIL is good' - #bitcoin-assets search	[08:58]
adlai	no wonder i hate getting any sleep	[08:59]
cazalla	pete_dushenski, thestringpuller is on it	[09:01]
punkman	decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time? <- it happened a couple times during testing, hopefuly the lords will provide adequate space in the future.	[09:01]
pete_dushenski	cazalla nice :)	[09:01]
punkman	;;isup bitbet.us	[09:02]
gribble	bitbet.us is down	[09:02]
punkman	scam!	[09:02]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[18:06]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[18:06]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[18:06]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[18:06]
TomServo	asciilifeform: This is only for wireless clients correct? Though, why wouldn't they also do the same to wired customers?	[18:07]
asciilifeform	wired << afaik they do.	[18:07]
TomServo	Seems the article only mentions phones and wireless.. unless I'm missing it.	[18:07]
mircea_popescu	cazalla http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/#comment-109313 << check that shit out.	[18:08]
*	#bitcoin-assets :Cannot send to channel	[18:08]
asciilifeform	wired also diddled, for at least some subscribers, according to rumour mill	[18:08]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[18:08]
mircea_popescu	cazalla http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/#comment-109313 << check that shit out.	[18:08]
mod6	Hi all, ben_vulpes and I have a new revision for the foundation charter. http://dpaste.com/16Z4M68	[18:09]
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TomServo	asciilifeform: sings What a wonderful woooorld...	[18:10]
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mircea_popescu	mod6 ben_vulpes "This charter establishes the existence of a virtual organization whose mission is to maintain the Bitcoin reference client." <<< maybe strike client from there ?	[18:13]
mircea_popescu	the bitcoin reference. it's a thing.	[18:13]
punkman	reference implementation perhaps	[18:14]
mod6	ok, noted.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	reference implementation also works	[18:14]
mod6	i think it did say that at one point. i don't have my previous revisions handy atm.	[18:14]
mircea_popescu	anyway, looks pretty good!	[18:14]
mod6	'reference implementation'	[18:14]
mod6	ok good deal :)	[18:15]
punkman	ok, so I think current deedbot implementation would only look at the last signature in multisig message. How should it work ideally?	[18:15]
mod6	it looks at both and enters in a row for each?	[18:15]
mod6	s/both/all/	[18:15]
mod6	shrug	[18:15]
mircea_popescu	punkman that sounds fine actually.	[18:16]
mod6	ok gotta run for a bit, will be back later to continue the work on getting this thing finished.	[18:16]
punkman	ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot	[18:16]
punkman	maybe I'll make it display the additional signatures somehow	[18:16]
mircea_popescu	why ?	[18:16]
mod6	<+punkman> ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot << just put this in the wiki then so we'll know	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	and how do you deal with the case where string1+siga+string2+sigb ?	[18:17]
mircea_popescu	("I like melons"signed:MP"He means lemons")signed:Freud	[18:18]
punkman	so both electrum and supybot crapped out in slightly weird way today, I'll try to get it back up by tomorrow	[18:18]
punkman	1 day and 18 hours for the first run	[18:19]
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*	mircea_popescu is curious to hear details.	[18:21]
asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: i'll do something-or-other for your foundation thing, so long as it doesn't involve actual work	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	statement of redundancy department :D	[18:23]
asciilifeform	expert elephant delivery available also!	[18:24]
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asciilifeform	http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/10/peak-empire-take-two.html	[18:34]
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undata	asciilifeform: have you documented your rng?	[18:56]
asciilifeform	undata: the only formally published aspect so far is a set of high-res photos. but it, plus everything i have said about rng, is ten times more than enough to recreate it for a determined and impatient student.	[18:58]
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mircea_popescu	!up WolfGoethe	[18:58]
-assbot-	You voiced WolfGoethe for 30 minutes.	[18:58]
*	assbot gives voice to WolfGoethe	[18:58]
asciilifeform	undata: in case this was not clear, complete design documents -and- rationales will be published (including in dead-tree form).	[18:58]
mircea_popescu	undata plus he's on the hook to document it once it actually gets made.	[18:59]
mircea_popescu	shit i gotta type faster.	[18:59]
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asciilifeform	i expect that the truly serious folks won't even touch my hardware, but recreate it from spec...	[19:00]
punkman	asciilifeform: maybe someone will come up with through-hole component version?	[19:01]
punkman	I'd bake a batch	[19:02]
undata	asciilifeform: great! we await your teachings.	[19:02]
jurov	punkman do it with 99% fine zamak cover bearing "First Edition" label	[19:02]
asciilifeform	punkman: it'd be all-throughhole now if the components were actually available in that package.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	lol fine zamak cover. why so mean	[19:03]
punkman	was partlist published in reports?	[19:03]
asciilifeform	punkman: for rng - yes! you can probably build it now.	[19:03]
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mircea_popescu	partlist, quality of results summary, all sorts of things.	[19:06]
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asciilifeform	gotta love the cribbing f-students - 'onerng' etc.	[19:07]
asciilifeform	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#900085 << for those who slept	[19:08]
assbot	Logged on 28-10-2014 12:47:11; asciilifeform: undata: onerng.info << best lulz! this calls for a mini-review.	[19:08]
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asciilifeform	ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, others involved with deturdification - unless you prefer emacs for this, see tools like 'xxdiff' for illuminated patches.	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	didja write teh minireview ?	[19:12]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: see log below linked line.	[19:13]
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mircea_popescu	shit listen, i'm not yet done with the day's log, gotta read it in order or else errors.	[19:13]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no reason to hurry.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu	vita brevis!	[19:14]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: well, that - yes.	[19:15]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: but for sapper who hurries - brevis-er.	[19:16]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/is-it-better-to-have-missed-once-and-never-known-it-than-to-have-never-missed-at-all/ unrelated.	[19:20]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rm_rf_upnp-asciilifeform.patch.sig << related	[19:21]
asciilifeform	^ vote of confidence	[19:22]
punkman	hah	[19:22]
punkman	oh thought you were signing rm utility, never mind	[19:23]
asciilifeform	lolno, ben_vulpes patch	[19:24]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin finally reached in 2014 the place where it would have been in 2009 had satoshi been able to find and motivate people rather than find himself desperately shooting into the public forum.	[19:26]
mircea_popescu	a better example of the problem of resource allocation can never be devised.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	five fucking years and a horde of jackals, all because there isn't nor apparently can there be a god out there to whom you pray and who gives orders adequately.	[19:27]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu << i must point out that the turd's merely been chucked onto the turdlathe. no one as of yet solved anything.	[19:27]
mircea_popescu	hence 2009.	[19:28]
*	assbot removes voice from WolfGoethe	[19:28]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla ^ see, vex can stfu.	[19:29]
mircea_popescu	anyway, a better demolition of the myth of "open source" and wikidiotarianism could also hardly be devised	[19:30]
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bounce	apparently there wasn't a people person around who could find and organise the people to cook up bitcoin; needed a lone engineer to lay the ground work.	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	i think it's deeper than that. i doubt the job was possible at all, without an outright onslaught from metaphysics.	[19:34]
mircea_popescu	two legions of choir angels and a third column of succubi might have sufficed, then.	[19:35]
punkman	maybe it was 3 wizards and a code monkey, who's to know?	[19:35]
asciilifeform	eh, we do not yet know what suffices. because 'it' has not yet happened.	[19:36]
bounce	you shoulda been there and called up the heaven+hell agency and order the right actors for this show, eh	[19:36]
mircea_popescu	^ stan's.	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	bounce i had nfi idea, at the time, and definitely would have been horrible for the role.	[19:37]
mircea_popescu	that's the problem here, you need some experience to be able to think.	[19:38]
punkman	!search bitc	[19:38]
assbot	19 results for 'bitc' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitc	[19:38]
bounce	what's this now?	[19:38]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu << would like to be optimistic, but we will soon see who remains motivated once the turdlathe demands actual brain cycles. right now it's target practice against paper 'opponents.'	[19:44]
mircea_popescu	mebbe.	[19:44]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: in the sense that zapping dead ifdef's is not especially arduous.	[19:45]
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mircea_popescu	mebbe.	[19:45]
mircea_popescu	i shall say mebbe again to you, if you do not appease me!	[19:46]
*	punkman is willing to work on specification at some point	[19:46]
ben_vulpes	reference client was a total fat-finger on my part	[19:48]
ben_vulpes	reference impl is correct language	[19:49]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: sapper trains with...	[19:49]
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mircea_popescu	dynamite dildoes ?	[19:51]
mircea_popescu	"failure is a pleasure" brand	[19:51]
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*	mircea_popescu signs off on that orlov piece being total idiocy.	[19:55]
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mircea_popescu	Naphex: i'm gonna start banning accunetix scans soon. its incredible how many "security researches" and hax0rs just try and run it all day << like five hundred times in a row, too. because who knows, maybe it changed ?	[19:56]
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Naphex	mircea_popescu: aye, or just lots of monkeys running around shooting accunetix trying to get bug rewards lol	[19:57]
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mircea_popescu	kinda a good reason to not explicitly / publicisedly offer rewards.	[19:57]
mircea_popescu	there's about a quarter billion idiots kept alive against nature by various welfarist governments' welfare programs, who exist like shitworms, everything is either a food dispenser or nothing to them.	[19:58]
mircea_popescu	so they keep suckling on doorknobs, shit like that.	[19:58]
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Naphex	mircea_popescu: aye. oh well i just firewall drop them after 10 accunetix hits	[19:58]
Naphex	some even change ip	[19:59]
Naphex	i mean..	[19:59]
mircea_popescu	next thing you know you gotta wear gloves because the socialist idots have made an endless supply of doorknob droolers.	[19:59]
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mircea_popescu	;;later tell pete_dushenski apparently the chaos people loved your blog.	[19:59]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[19:59]
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mircea_popescu	undata: ^ thoughts, criticism? << check it out, it's got the metal shield like asciilifeform's!	[20:02]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: read my turdreview	[20:02]
mircea_popescu	anyway, i'm shooting the guy an email	[20:03]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: lol! can't help but wonder what he'd answer.	[20:04]
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kakobrekla	my bet : he wont	[20:05]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu, ben_vulpse, others: loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform.2-https_snipsnip.tar.gz	[20:06]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla what odds you giving on that ?	[20:06]
asciilifeform	^ build, not live-fire tested yet	[20:06]
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kakobrekla	;;isup bitbet.us	[20:06]
B0g4r7	Belsage ben_vulpes berndj bettycla1p bgp bgupta BigBitz BingoBoingo bitspill_ blast Blazedout419 bounce brayden	[20:06]
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gribble	bitbet.us is up	[20:06]
kakobrekla	oh damn.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	jurov you gotta make that mailman thing baby, otherwise " mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others" will become a header here.	[20:07]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: orlov piece being total idiocy << the most recent guest authored piece?	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	TomServo whatever asciilifeform linked earlier. something with "total base acreage", as fucking if.	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	next he can make a review of datacenters based on total board / cpu surface o.O	[20:07]
mircea_popescu	clearly, it has been stagnating for 50 years.	[20:07]
TomServo	ahaha, yes. What's your take then, as far as timeline goes?	[20:08]
jurov	mircea_popescu: sigh... you may note my occassional rant related to it	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	no i only note things i like.	[20:08]
jurov	plus, whole idea has arisen at friday, while i had busy weekend	[20:08]
mircea_popescu	TomServo you ever played civ ?	[20:09]
TomServo	mircea_popescu: Long ways back, yes.	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	jurov anything good ? pics of hot twinks coming ?	[20:09]
jurov	did not take photos, sry	[20:09]
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mircea_popescu	TomServo you ever encountered that situation where you had a smaller island, but pushed tech, surrounded yourself with fortified mech infantry and railroaded all the firlds back when the idiots around still klonked each other with knights	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	but then 1000 years later they got their own armors and well... game over ?	[20:10]
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mircea_popescu	the us is going against a twin bottleneck, both social and technological. the us born boys of today are weak, the us tech of today is dull, no more edge. like that, it can only be a brothel.	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	jurov you know, photos can be half the fun.	[20:11]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[20:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[20:15]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[20:15]
-assbot-	Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass.	[20:15]
*	assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu	[20:15]
diametric	https://community.rapid7.com/community/metasploit/blog/2014/10/28/r7-2014-15-gnu-wget-ftp-symlink-arbitrary-filesystem-access	[20:16]
asciilifeform	^ mega-lulz!	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	lol!	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	i wonder if this one was ever exploited.	[20:17]
Naphex	https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2kkmj2/justcoin_is_shutting_down_withdraw_your_funds/	[20:18]
mircea_popescu	what was that even ?	[20:19]
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mircea_popescu	assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum << that made precisely no sense. wut ?!	[20:20]
rithm	justcoin failed to read the specs on ripple	[20:20]
punkman	question is can I redirect random HTTP url to ftp:// when I detect wget	[20:20]
asciilifeform	'If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!'	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ? <<< ahahah wut.	[20:21]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: look at it. there it is.	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	and 'AP3105' , kay, amateur hour.	[20:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: kitchen toilet.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	but... "it should be ok for most usecases".	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	which is how you'll get kiled in the marketplace. if the market is 100 units, and 90 units are needed to support a well made unit, and 90 buyers could be satisfied by a shitty unit,	[20:22]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i posted enough re: rng that any kid could bloody well copy it. but no, must have 'improvements.'	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	if the shitty unit makes it to market first then the well made unit is never happening.	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	so get on with it!	[20:22]
mircea_popescu	jurov he's trying to put a dent in his hosting bills ?	[20:23]
punkman	jurov, to apply linked exploit	[20:23]
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asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: against the f-students, we have pills. but it would be hasty to administer the pills as of yet.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	if i have to pass another xmas w/o roast beast and cardano i'll paint you blue.	[20:25]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: might have to give you one of mine.	[20:27]
asciilifeform	gentlement: patch review pleeze ?	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	just get on with it!11 exlamation points	[20:27]
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mircea_popescu	jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes << where are you adding the space ?	[20:29]
jurov	in the end of STATJSON	[20:30]
jurov	read the gpg quirks i linked, it's eye opening	[20:30]
mircea_popescu	uh you telling me gpg takes "STATJSON" and "STATJSON " as validly signed by the same signature ?	[20:31]
jurov	lol 11 exlamation points.. yknow, asciilifeform is still gathering blood, sweat, bile, etc. to put into cardano software	[20:31]
asciilifeform	jurov: ichor.	[20:32]
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mircea_popescu	jurov yeah, stat/statjson are not protected against replay. this, on the principle that the response being encoded anyway, the attacker needs the key to do anything useful.	[20:50]
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asciilifeform	the attacker needs the key to do anything useful << unless i misunderstand, enemy can do blind replay?	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	14:16:06 mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down << umm no they don't ?	[20:51]
kakobrekla	links like to whatever people link to.	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	oh, he means inside the lines	[20:52]
kakobrekla	s/like/link	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, and get a blob coded to the owner's key, and now we know someone tried.	[20:52]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: possibly he meant 'bash' etc.	[20:52]
kakobrekla	hm?	[20:52]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: links	[20:52]
kakobrekla	there are log links in bash?	[20:52]
asciilifeform	kakobrekla: bash link in log	[20:53]
kakobrekla	ah	[20:53]
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jurov	punkman, kakobrekla: how do you get all the public keys from gribble?	[21:05]
jurov	in assbot L1/L2	[21:05]
*	kakobrekla doesnt.	[21:05]
punkman	I had it download the db backups every 6 hours	[21:06]
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BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2014/10/justcoin-exchange-closing/	[21:08]
mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc. <<< used to be how mpex did ipo contracts, but it sucks.	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	now everyone signs a copy.	[21:10]
mircea_popescu	http://lessonslearned.org/sniff << not bad this	[21:13]
mircea_popescu	apparently websites can be useful even without web2.0 rounded corners javascript "design" bs.	[21:14]
mircea_popescu	actually, one should sometime do a count.	[21:14]
Naphex	so wait	[21:15]
Naphex	if justcoin is going down	[21:15]
Naphex	why is it still trading?	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	wow log finished. feels so good...	[21:16]
mircea_popescu	Naphex doesn't make any sense does it.	[21:16]
asciilifeform	gentlemen: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform.3-turdmeister-alert-snip.tar.gz << includes previous	[21:16]
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BingoBoingo	Naphex: Insufficient thought disorder? Maybe they hope late panic trades might be favorable to their own orders?	[21:20]
Naphex	why would anyone give a shit to trade on a burning down closing exchange	[21:21]
Naphex	just get your funds out and move out	[21:21]
mircea_popescu	maybe you've not met the bitcoin crowd yet ?	[21:22]
Naphex	some fruad suspected	[21:22]
Naphex	related to some altcoin ripple run shit on your server hack	[21:22]
asciilifeform	no more turdmeister broadcast receiver!	[21:25]
Naphex	turdmeister broadcast receiver?	[21:25]
asciilifeform	!s nixing alert	[21:26]
assbot	1 results for 'nixing alert' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nixing+alert	[21:26]
Naphex	asciilifeform: so that's what alert disabled?	[21:28]
asciilifeform	no reason at all why a true bitcoind ought to take direct orders from the turdation...	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	re the "how to start your own country" thing, the opening model is so fucking braindamaged it curls my hairs.	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	is there anything actually intelligent in here or am i throwing it away ?	[21:29]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: strauss is a (now very old) man who was involved with some of the '70s derpistans (actual attempts at island 'nations' by american jokers). worth reading if only for zoological purposes.	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	no but seriously, groups split off at that point when carrying the food (where ? they were fucking nomadic anyway) cost as much energy as the food provided ?	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	the sexual castration of us puritans is making them stupid i swear.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	individuation is a sexual, not an economical phenomenon.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	xiando hey, help me out here, what's that ancient chinese tale of the young man who found a young woman, and they fell in love, and they wished to be alone in the world ? so they suddenly were! and then wished for a cook, and suddely a cook appeared, and then kept wishing and soon enough were back at home ?	[21:32]
asciilifeform	strauss has 'zoological' data not available elsewhere, afaik.	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah, but my fear is, how much can be trusted in the "data" of someone so fundamentally confused. can one who can't count keep a useful count of anything ?	[21:34]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: next you'll be asking about herodotus	[21:34]
Naphex	asciilifeform: so did you remove the fork alerts as well or just the alert-keying system?	[21:34]
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mircea_popescu	i guess since im reading this under protest im gonna adnotate it.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	Naphex: keyed. -- and, you know, you can read the fscking code.	[21:36]
asciilifeform	not rocket surgery!	[21:36]
Naphex	asciilifeform: didn't quite pick up that turdmeister alert snip was a bitcoin patch to check it:)	[21:37]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he has a point tho. what happens if there's a fork ?	[21:37]
asciilifeform	dear glubb, read it	[21:38]
Naphex	i kept the alert system, don't have much problem with it and can easily be disabaled.	[21:38]
Naphex	but thats what i want for my core servers really. don't run walleting software on them	[21:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform to reprhrase. "what should happen, if there's a fork"	[21:38]
Naphex	but i do want them to shut down in many cases and prevent any integrity breaches	[21:39]
Naphex	the chain will still be there	[21:39]
Naphex	for me to restart	[21:39]
mircea_popescu	Naphex the problem with this approach is that well, false security.	[21:39]
Naphex	how is it false security?	[21:40]
Naphex	it's not false security	[21:40]
Naphex	you run the route nodes to sync the data and keep a chain	[21:40]
mircea_popescu	well, not in itself, but if you end up relying on it then yeah	[21:40]
Naphex	you then run secondary nodes with spv to ease that data and make it more usefull	[21:41]
Naphex	if anything corrupts the main chain, the spv will pick it up	[21:41]
mircea_popescu	so if you run all this why'd you want random idiot to turn off your whole infrastructure whenever ?	[21:41]
Naphex	the main chain(fed from the trusted nodes)	[21:41]
Naphex	mircea_popescu: the nodes are all synced, the only thing he turns off is the ability to receive new transactions	[21:41]
Naphex	and thats pretty short, i can recompile it and restart it with alerts disabled in under 10mins	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	nevertheless.	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	we're discussing different things here.	[21:42]
Naphex	so thats not a huge downtime, alerts get notified and keyd so email all the rest	[21:42]
asciilifeform	ability to receive new transactions << and gavin should have the nuclear button for this why?	[21:42]
Naphex	temporary, be right back	[21:42]
mircea_popescu	it's unsanitary. that damned key is probably how he got his asshole extended in the first place.	[21:42]
asciilifeform	unsanitary << exactly. and, thus far, we are - sanitars.	[21:44]
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jurov	http://mineforeman.com/2014/09/24/how-i-accidentally-hacked-the-igot-exchange/	[21:47]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:49]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo ^ qntra ?	[21:49]
BingoBoingo	I'll look at it	[21:49]
asciilifeform	anyone willing to review patches - read, ponder, sign. jurov can dump it all in turdatron later.	[21:50]
asciilifeform	also, am i the only one here with a pair of shears? get snipping.	[21:51]
asciilifeform	plenty of unambiguous garbage left.	[21:51]
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nubbins`	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-10-2014#900057	[22:06]
assbot	Logged on 28-10-2014 11:41:26; punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process	[22:06]
nubbins`	^ CRLF line endings o.O	[22:07]
nubbins`	unless we've all suddenly decided to nominate Windows as the OS of choice, should not be within a thousand feet of this thing :D	[22:08]
punkman	it doesn't discriminate, whatever you feed it	[22:08]
nubbins`	it should replace with	[22:09]
punkman	original genesis deed had LF, dunno when they got in there, probably some text editor	[22:09]
nubbins`	otherwise how the fuck is anyone using anything other than Windows going to be able to verify deeds?	[22:09]
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punkman	base64 was there for a reason	[22:09]
punkman	check out the one liner	[22:09]
nubbins`	one liner?	[22:10]
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asciilifeform	which one of the chairmen runs winblows? fess up	[22:11]
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nubbins`	heh	[22:12]
nubbins`	SPEAK NOW	[22:12]
nubbins`	but srsly, --> going forward	[22:12]
nubbins`	do a regex replace, w/e, don't care	[22:12]
nubbins`	must be done	[22:12]
punkman	not rly	[22:13]
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nubbins`	yes rly	[22:13]
nubbins`	it's a line of code	[22:13]
ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: scissors? no. time today? perhaps.	[22:14]
nubbins`	otherwise you're essentially throwing up a huge "FUCK YOU" to all of us not using winblows	[22:14]
asciilifeform	bad enough that satoshi used (or convincingly pretended to use) it. i will not be signing anything of substance authored by a winblows user. cannot presume that he has sole control of his key.	[22:14]
asciilifeform	if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why.	[22:16]
nubbins`	imagine every time you wanted to verify a deed, having to manually swap with	[22:16]
nubbins`	or having to check both versions because the deed could be using either	[22:16]
nubbins`	nightmare	[22:16]
mod6	windows? not me. i've done all my editing in vim	[22:16]
mod6	i don't own or use a single windows machine, and proud to have not for /years/	[22:16]
nubbins`	mod6 HIGH FIVE	[22:16]
mod6	^5	[22:16]
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chetty	I like the idea you know someone is using a potential bad key because ot that problem	[22:19]
asciilifeform	known users of kitchen toilets.	[22:19]
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asciilifeform	quite elementary.	[22:20]
chetty	asciilifeform, not the most elegant way of putting it but you make a point	[22:20]
ben_vulpes	what precisely had ?	[22:20]
*	ben_vulpes runs macos - admitted turd, but not windows	[22:21]
mike_c	what about /deed/asldkfjalsdkfgj/RAW/ that has raw message.	[22:23]
mike_c	and you can wget and not worry about line endings	[22:23]
asciilifeform	this thead is about things that must not be born, regardless of how easily killed.	[22:24]
asciilifeform	problems of provenance.	[22:24]
asciilifeform	!s monolith	[22:24]
assbot	12 results for 'monolith' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=monolith	[22:24]
mike_c	whether or not you trust something signed by a windows user has little to do with deedbot.	[22:25]
jurov	ben_vulpes: wanna keys from the therealbitcoin.org bucket? to publish the charter and provisional list of patches	[22:25]
mike_c	having deedbot muck up the message it is given seems retarded.	[22:25]
asciilifeform	or, more pertinently, it does not matter that a cockroach is easy to crush. you don't want ten, nine, or one - in kitchen	[22:25]
jurov	unless you unanimously decided it will go elsewhere	[22:25]
ben_vulpes	jurov: sorry, don't understand the question	[22:25]
punkman	any interest in bot that announces key expiries and revocations in channel?	[22:26]
mike_c	yeah, ok, so we won't run deedbot on windows. what does this have to do with it mucking up messages it is given?	[22:26]
nubbins`	ben_vulpes genesis deed has	[22:26]
ben_vulpes	ho ho ho	[22:26]
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ben_vulpes	not a chair problem tho	[22:26]
ben_vulpes	?	[22:26]
asciilifeform	eh i might have stepped in wrong thread. but even so, where does cr-lf come from if no winblows in the loop?	[22:27]
nubbins`	ben_vulpes someone's chair ;)	[22:27]
mike_c	from the person submitting the deed is my understanding.	[22:27]
nubbins`	asciilifeform ask punkman i guess	[22:27]
nubbins`	i assumed he was using windows	[22:27]
punkman	genesis deed not signed on windows	[22:27]
jurov	ben_vulpes: to upload files and publish then to web	[22:27]
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punkman	the house does have some windows though	[22:28]
nubbins`	however it happened, there's	[22:28]
ben_vulpes	oh!	[22:28]
nubbins`	and it would be extremely important to convert all to when publishing deeds.	[22:28]
ben_vulpes	yes sure that would be useful indeed.	[22:28]
mike_c	no, it wouldn't..	[22:28]
nubbins`	it would be extremely convenient for non-windows users	[22:28]
nubbins`	same thing, n'est pas? ;D	[22:29]
mike_c	to have a list of ways the deed that deedbot is given is modified before publishing?	[22:29]
mike_c	this is silly.	[22:29]
mike_c	it shouldn't fuck with the message at all.	[22:29]
nubbins`	silly is not being able to verify deeds because they use retarded EOL	[22:29]
punkman	it just pushes bytes around indeed	[22:29]
mike_c	so don't copy/paste.	[22:29]
nubbins`	how the fuck else am i gonna verify, transcribe by hand?	[22:30]
mike_c	i just said. have /deed/adsfas/RAW/	[22:30]
ben_vulpes	just reject crlf	[22:30]
mike_c	surely you have wget on ur l33t box.	[22:30]
punkman	curl -s http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLY \| grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=	[22:30]
punkman	but yes some raw url will be added	[22:30]
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xanthyos	if i donate to startcoin i can get a free sterlingcoin cryptocurrency card!	[22:36]
xanthyos	Sterlingcoin is The Cryptocurrency of the UK & British Isles. << didn't realize btc was geographically limited	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	^ CRLF line endings o.O <<<	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	it should replace with << it's cant, gpg sig'd	[22:38]
punkman	actually gpg doesn't care	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	o yes it does.	[22:39]
punkman	no genesis deed was LF, but deedbot got CRLF version and it passed	[22:39]
mircea_popescu	try feeding a blob to a linux version	[22:39]
punkman	it's in the manual, pretty sure	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why. << it's a wot thing. does not matter one rat's ass what anyone thinks of it as long as you got a policy you thought out and are sticking to.	[22:40]
mircea_popescu	and you can wget and not worry about line endings << somebody's not read the log :D	[22:41]
asciilifeform	sticking to it << i will. but curious whether it makes sense to the rest of you.	[22:41]
nubbins`	:S	[22:42]
mircea_popescu	i can see it.	[22:42]
jurov	o yes it does.<< same thing as spaces in the end of lines, you did not get it	[22:42]
jurov	line endings do not go into sig	[22:42]
jurov	unless –not-dash-escaped option	[22:42]
asciilifeform	option << which b0rks other things	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	jurov what i meant on this instance was that pasting dos text in linux gpg results in double line breaks and an unprocessable inpuit.	[22:43]
punkman	openpgp spec says normalize to CRLF I think	[22:43]
mircea_popescu	generally tho, the concept of "line" should not exist for gpg.	[22:43]
asciilifeform	we're paying and paying for the glass tty era, yes.	[22:44]
punkman	https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4880	[22:44]
punkman	"The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings converted to ."	[22:44]
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nubbins`	gross	[22:49]
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mircea_popescu	more reasons to reimplement pgp	[22:51]
asciilifeform	as if we ever were short on reasons!	[22:51]
nubbins`	"standard CRLF line endings"	[22:53]
nubbins`	who the fuck wrote this	[22:53]
punkman	"Also, any trailing whitespace -- spaces (0x20) and tabs (0x09) -- at the end of any line is removed when the cleartext signature is generated."	[22:53]
punkman	so there's a lot of ways to make dupe deeds	[22:54]
asciilifeform	who the fuck wrote this << lost souls	[22:54]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` it's the "standard" tho.	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	it stays with gpg in about the same reason bitcoin stands with the derpitude coming out of the scamdation.	[22:55]
punkman	" As with binary signatures on text documents, a cleartext signature is calculated on the text using canonical line endings." << wtf does this mean	[22:55]
asciilifeform	this is the kind of thing that will die because it must, and because we have blasters.	[22:55]
mircea_popescu	nothing.	[22:56]
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asciilifeform	http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2014#774692	[22:56]
assbot	Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: results - and from this comes strength; the fight now turns, from a draining, futile floundering - to a merry, wrathful clobbering of a dying vermin, who with us - men - has nothing whatsoever in common. But it all begins - with nonparticipation.' (Беркем аль Атоми, articles. translation mine.)	[22:56]
chetty	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/11192385/Sex-with-21-women-lowers-risk-of-prostate-cancer-academics-find.html	[22:59]
asciilifeform	chetty: correlation/causation crapolade.	[22:59]
asciilifeform	!s grow taller	[22:59]
assbot	3 results for 'grow taller' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=grow+taller	[22:59]
chetty	yeah but now you guys have another excuse	[23:00]
chetty	just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :)	[23:00]
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BingoBoingo	just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :) << No, people with better memory just remember chocolate === good	[23:10]
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chetty	what passes for science these days connects dots that don't even exist, but I got to admit sometimes the answers they come up with are fun	[23:13]
mircea_popescu	how about having sex with 21 chocolates ?	[23:14]
chetty	messy	[23:15]
asciilifeform	iirc, chocolate plays important role in the lives of zoophiliacs...	[23:15]
mircea_popescu	wut ?!	[23:16]
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asciilifeform	wut << bait	[23:16]
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BingoBoingo	https://i.imgur.com/d2f3xmw.png << Purported SEC letter to CEX.io/Ghash.io	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-start-your-own-country-adnotated/	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	not signed ?	[23:28]
mircea_popescu	link them to mine, tell them that's how it's done.	[23:29]
BingoBoingo	Found on reddit, so harder to tell if authentic. Fucking Amateurs!	[23:30]
*	belcher (~belcher-s@5ec32391.skybroadband.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:32]
*	belcher has quit (Changing host)	[23:32]
*	belcher (~belcher-s@unaffiliated/belcher) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:32]
*	disident has quit (Quit: disident)	[23:34]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu reads books linearly, lol. choked on the alchemy, missed the chemistry. (2nd half of item.)	[23:38]
mircea_popescu	gimme an offset ?	[23:38]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: 'case histories' pp. 51	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	in other news, http://38.media.tumblr.com/e05942fb8be37747399f8b05b0e0398e/tumblr_n9x5cgrCxJ1th1e66o1_250.gif	[23:40]
mircea_popescu	ty.	[23:40]
*	joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[23:41]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: actually, very little chemistry, it's really a history of 'alchemists' - if that weren't clear	[23:43]
BingoBoingo	So Jstor is now following the #bitcoin-assets lead http://daily.jstor.org/	[23:44]
*	Lycerion_ (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:51]
*	Lycerion has quit (Disconnected by services)	[23:52]
*	Lycerion_ is now known as Lycerion	[23:52]
*	TheNewDeal (ce2d690b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.206.45.105.11) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:54]
*	Lycerion has quit (Client Quit)	[23:55]
*	Lycerion (~Lycerion@unaffiliated/lycerion) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:55]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform mkay, so i got as far as page 67. i fail to see why any of this drivel is either important or useful, and especially the conflation of "country" and "territory" seems idiotic.	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	this is no chemistry.	[23:56]
*	assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal	[23:57]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: alchemy. whose fault is it that the entire field consisted of it. afaik. (any successful micro-sovereigns in 20th c? of the ab initio variety)	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	heh, i missed the important line ;/	[23:57]

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