Forum logs for 28 Oct 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
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mats_cd03 [00:02]
mats_cd03 i loled [00:03]
mats_cd03 << green berets telling everybody who didn't already know the ANA is useless [00:08]
mats_cd03 even afghan peasants are smarter than USG, apparently [00:09]
mats_cd03 everybody in the region except the US knows they'll have to negotiate with the taliban five years from now [00:10]
BingoBoingo From the archives, USG buys pocket knives [00:10]
mats_cd03 unreachable [00:12]
jurov sooo... got two mailman installations with gpg patch, one rejects everything as "bad signature" the other accepts even usigned stuff despite configured not to [00:12]
jurov /o [00:12]
kakobrekla !b 2 [00:12]
jurov gotta debug [00:12]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:13]
kakobrekla dont worry bash is down. [00:13]
jurov !b 2 [00:13]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [00:13]
kakobrekla lol [00:14]
kakobrekla lol DO is being totally retarded [00:15]
kakobrekla maybe time to test retardation levels at vultr [00:15]
punkman I wouldn't expect vultr to be better but who knows [00:16]
kakobrekla well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised" [00:17]
kakobrekla srsly. [00:17]
los_pantalones mike_c still in here? [00:18]
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kakobrekla they are basically saying "hello idiot, put shoe on head, banana in anus to fix ddos" [00:19]
kakobrekla im totaly fine if they take the machine down for the needed period [00:20]
kakobrekla but i will not dance bananas. [00:20]
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mike_c los_pantalones: yeah [00:22]
los_pantalones we provide btc liquidity otc and on exchange [00:23]
los_pantalones over 185k traded last 30 days [00:23]
mike_c impressive. who is "we"? [00:23]
kakobrekla which ex? [00:23]
los_pantalones company i work for, i would tell you if i were in on my company pgp but i'm using my personal here [00:23]
los_pantalones most [00:23]
los_pantalones we don't touch bitstamp [00:23]
kakobrekla :D [00:24]
los_pantalones directly [00:24]
kakobrekla ... [00:24]
kakobrekla lol [00:24]
kakobrekla all roads lead to buttstamp [00:24]
kakobrekla close to rome too. [00:24]
los_pantalones yeah, odd arrangement but you can trade on bitstamp via coinsetter [00:24]
kakobrekla geographically i mean. [00:24]
los_pantalones works better for us legally [00:24]
kakobrekla ah coinsetter idiots [00:24]
kakobrekla nvm, carry on. [00:24]
los_pantalones anyway, we make investments here and there but mostly trade [00:25]
los_pantalones and luckily i get to take calls from VC looking at companies [00:25]
cazalla [00:25]
los_pantalones those are fun calls [00:25]
mike_c how's the bear market treating you? [00:25]
los_pantalones great [00:25]
los_pantalones super busy [00:25]
los_pantalones i try to push everyone into here, most haven't taken me up on it [00:26]
kakobrekla only idiots use irc. [00:27]
pete_dushenski cazalla first drugs, now disease, next clubbing baby seals. [00:28]
pete_dushenski los_pantalones be more selective? [00:28]
pete_dushenski kakobrekla irc is dangerous because it uses passwords, y'know [00:29]
los_pantalones pete_dushenski it's not like i'm suggesting hundreds of people come in here, just the guys who end up on .derp [00:29]
pete_dushenski .derp ? [00:29]
kakobrekla lol [00:29]
kakobrekla pete, mpex issued derp [00:30]
pete_dushenski ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem of a comment in the public forum: "No, more nodes arent more secure. A full node is valuable to the one running it, not anyone else" [00:32]
gribble The operation succeeded. [00:32]
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pete_dushenski kakobrekla i musta missed how people go from mpex to using los_pantalones for btc liquidity? [00:33]
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kakobrekla i think theres a misunderstanding going on here. [00:34]
kakobrekla sending people to ba is not relevant to btc liquidity [00:34]
pete_dushenski o! i got it now. my bad. [00:35]
pete_dushenski i understood los_pantalones as saying that people who "ended up on .derp" were traders, not the actual fucking derps! [00:36]
pete_dushenski lol [00:36]
pete_dushenski heh twitter lost another $175mn this quarter. such business those guys [00:37]
kakobrekla 33mb tweets? [00:38]
pete_dushenski this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled. [00:38]
pete_dushenski kakobrekla twitter needs bigger nodes. [00:39]
pete_dushenski !s taleb ebola [00:41]
assbot 0 results for 'taleb ebola' : [00:41]
pete_dushenski ok then: [00:42]
pete_dushenski Taleb: Ebola, including model error. [00:42]
pete_dushenski hmm do comments not yield trackbacks? [00:49]
pete_dushenski didn't see one for this: [00:49]
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cazalla ben_vulpes: didja comment on their blorg? <<< i'll give em time to respond via email first [01:03]
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PeterL mircea_popescu: rss thing ... I am working on it, it is almost ready, I think, just need to work out a few bugs and clean up my code some [01:18]
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Adlai [02:16]
Adlai TIL linden dollar exchanges are registered MSBs [02:17]
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BingoBoingo Adlai: I'm working on a write up atm on those [02:22]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: dude you gotta stop your blog from opening up links in new tabs [02:23]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes uh no? [02:26]
pete_dushenski why would i do that? [02:26]
ben_vulpes vile fucking practice, destroying the browse history. [02:27]
cazalla question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? [02:27]
PeterL is there a way to change that behavior in your local browser? [02:28]
punkman cazalla: not rly [02:28]
ben_vulpes also pete_dushenski your content div scrolls sideways [02:28]
cazalla punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons." [02:28]
PeterL cazella: maybe they are not making good entropy and are embarrased to admit it? [02:28]
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ben_vulpes cazalla: only if you're depending on DO for your noise. [02:29]
jurov sugh, this is worse than obola.. i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain [02:29]
PeterL If it is something like "pick a certain digit of pi to start at" then it would be a security breach to expose what you are doing [02:30]
jurov base64, quoted printable, oh my [02:30]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: no-irc << story here. a good fraction of irc bots are malware c&c commanders. hosting firms hate them, they draw fire (from upstream isp) [02:30]
ben_vulpes PeterL: yeah sure, custom stylesheet for clobbering target="_blank" [02:30]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes hm let me mull it over [02:30]
ben_vulpes but as i said, clobbering the back-button when reading hyperlinked documents is... [02:31]
ben_vulpes well you fill in that ellipses yourself. [02:31]
kakobrekla punkman, i thought so. i ask because this is the response i got when asking someone i'm looking at doing a story on "We believe there are a number of safe ways the keys can be generated by offline PCs, but do not disclose exact method(s) chosen for obvious reasons." < if its a bad implementation, you in fact increase attack surface even further [02:31]
punkman and that's a good reason? [02:31]
kakobrekla didnt say that [02:31]
kakobrekla everything is terrible [02:32]
asciilifeform cazalla: is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy << your crystal ball's answer is correct. [02:32]
asciilifeform cazalla: same reason mircea_popescu won't post his neutered bitcoind source tree. [02:33]
asciilifeform cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose [02:33]
kakobrekla same as with signing any code. [02:33]
asciilifeform jurov: i was not aware what various email clients do to text/plain <<<<< mircea_popescu << our thread last night. [02:33]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: signing code << can be a hero for the motherland. [02:34]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes it's a bit odd that the sidescroll shows up in firefox and safari but not opera. what're you using? [02:34]
cazalla so really, it's more a question of why buy physical coins to begin with than getting to the point of asking how they generated the private keys used for the priv address inside the coin [02:34]
punkman asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools [02:34]
* asciilifeform will sign own code (cardano) with 'will die by this' seal. will not sign other folks' code, unless compensated to actually put in the time to play 'reverse underhanded c contest.' << not cheap [02:34]
kakobrekla but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools < we call the rand() function. twice. [02:35]
asciilifeform physical coins << anyone who buys private keys, deserves to pay for the sin [02:36]
kakobrekla yeah casascius is basically a scammer for not scamming [02:36]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: 'the gears grind slowly but they grind infinitely fine.' [02:37]
kakobrekla hehe [02:37]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: chrome [02:38]
asciilifeform he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ? [02:38]
pete_dushenski ben_vulpes zomg [02:39]
pete_dushenski anyways, i'll look in to it :) [02:39]
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cazalla pete_dushenski, where did the women go btw [02:40]
BingoBoingo [02:40]
pete_dushenski cazalla they were lost in the hosting changeover and have yet to reappear. they may still or they may not. [02:40]
asciilifeform punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe? [02:40]
ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: also opera lol [02:41]
punkman I got a coin in the works btw [02:43]
kakobrekla physical ? [02:43]
punkman yeah, not sure if it will have space for sticker though [02:43]
punkman maybe just an art thing [02:43]
kakobrekla funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead. [02:44]
Adlai ctrl-f bitcoin and laff [02:45]
asciilifeform Adlai: dead link? [02:45]
kakobrekla no worky [02:45]
Adlai here it is with all the tracking crap... [02:46]
* Adlai must've had some tracking crap in his browser already [02:46]
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Adlai tl;dr: "emerging payment systems (eg Bitcoin, Paypal, Square)" [02:47]
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* Adlai likes the order [02:47]
* kakobrekla waits for "10 years bitcoin experience required" in 2014. [02:48]
BingoBoingo [02:48]
assbot Today's /hashtag/FinCEN?src=hash /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hash rulings Deturdified, because Fuck PDFs [02:48]
asciilifeform !s 3 ani experienta [02:48]
assbot 3 results for '3 ani experienta' : [02:48]
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BingoBoingo Starfish virginity protection methods: [02:50]
asciilifeform ^ classic text [02:50]
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asciilifeform see also: [02:51]
asciilifeform ;;google knife folsom prison [02:51]
gribble Put 'Em Down, Take 'Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques From ...: ; Knife Fighting : About Folsom Knife Fighting - YouTube: ; Put Em Down, Take Em Out!: Knife Fighting Techniques from Folsom ...: [02:51]
asciilifeform ^ a kind of sequel [02:51]
bounce 7+ year "technical leadership" in webmonkeying? [02:52]
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pete_dushenski ben_vulpes sidescrolling fixed on opera/ff/safari, how's it look on chromeski? [03:02]
jurov asciilifeform << our thread last night << now i wonder why nobody's reusing ascii control characters (C0) [03:03]
jurov C0 reserved for asciilifeforms? [03:03]
asciilifeform jurov: because they get silently snipped by a thousand tools ? [03:03]
asciilifeform and aha, yes. [03:03]
jurov for example? [03:03]
asciilifeform 'strings'. [03:04]
asciilifeform your www broser (likely) [03:04]
asciilifeform better question, what -doesn't- lose them [03:04]
jurov how does a browser use them? [03:04]
asciilifeform loses [03:05]
asciilifeform not uses [03:05]
* asciilifeform would be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong about this [03:05]
jurov oh that. only if tim berners lee used them for html instead of <>"' [03:05]
asciilifeform we're still paying for the ill manners of ill-behaved 1970s 'glass tty' terminals. [03:06]
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jurov ^F [03:08]
jurov ^ was supposed to ACK [03:08]
* asciilifeform half-seriously suggests using otherwise worthless unicode chars for pgp control codes. e.g., babylonian cuneiform. [03:10]
* asciilifeform is not pleased that these are presently more widely supported than the complete ascii set. but it's a fact. [03:11]
asciilifeform ☭☭☭☭☭☭ [03:12]
bounce more elegant to invent your own pgp control script complete with glyphs and have it accepted in the unicode standard [03:14]
PeterL what control would the characters have? [03:17]
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jurov instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars [03:18]
asciilifeform PeterL: [03:18]
assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 21:44:02; asciilifeform: till we have a gpg that clearsigns without escape char mutilation - we got this. [03:18]
asciilifeform discussion of why jurov's turdatron is stuck using detached gpg signatures [03:18]
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jurov has come to this [03:29]
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mats_cd03 thats a nice picture of a chimp [03:30]
jurov lol on their on "warning" page: [03:30]
jurov That's just basic classical economics. Scammers don't last long in the Bitcoin ecosystem. [03:30]
jurov We are MUCH safer than the other exchanges, each of which has spawned a huge list of horror stories from disgrunted customers. [03:32]
jurov they forgot to mention they are amazing [03:32]
assbot AMAZING COMPANY! [03:32]
kakobrekla [03:33]
kakobrekla lolk [03:33]
kakobrekla better than mtgox, they say. [03:33]
decimation asciilifeform: is this because base64? [03:35]
jurov decimation: no, it uses dash escaping [03:36]
asciilifeform decimation: gpg 'escapes' minus signs. [03:36]
jurov which mutilates patches [03:36]
decimation lol [03:36]
cazalla that's racist! [03:36]
jurov cazalla: what? [03:36]
decimation why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits? [03:37]
decimation like, are they going to send it on a 5-bit teletype? [03:37]
cazalla jurov, referring to kakobrekla's coinchimp image.. hey if it was good enough for people to say mailchimp was vaguely racist.. [03:37]
asciilifeform because -----BEGIN FUCKTARDATION----- .... ------END FUCKTARDATION [03:37]
decimation [03:37]
decimation I see. [03:38]
decimation c-machine implementation of characters is enraging [03:40]
decimation I think you had that rant a few months ago on that topic [03:40]
asciilifeform decimation: [03:41]
decimation someone should make a --cccp flag that enables ☭ as the BOM/EOM char for gpg [03:42]
asciilifeform see also: [03:43]
decimation yeah, characters are properly objects with a variety of attributes, not numbers [03:43]
decimation it does seem like unicode is a natural fit for lisp [03:43]
asciilifeform unicode is still braindamaged [03:44]
decimation I think most folk use UTF8 [03:44]
asciilifeform no way to cleanly define local glyphs [03:44]
asciilifeform in any extant system [03:44]
asciilifeform it's as if we were still using teletype [03:44]
asciilifeform why are we emulating drum printers? [03:45]
decimation actually it's a tacit admission that computers suck [03:45]
decimation no one has the will/ability to make better software until hardware to use it rolls around [03:45]
asciilifeform in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more. [03:46]
asciilifeform because 'that's just how computer works, didntcha stay awake in school' [03:46]
decimation Another reason why chars suck is the endian problem [03:46]
* Adlai mutters something about local readtables [03:46]
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asciilifeform nothing to do with readtables [03:47]
decimation you are stuck with 8 bits if you don't want to constantly guess at endianness [03:47]
mircea_popescu !up Abelincoln [03:47]
Adlai what exactly are we trying to do here [03:47]
-assbot- You voiced Abelincoln for 30 minutes. [03:47]
* assbot gives voice to Abelincoln [03:47]
asciilifeform Adlai: which 'we', which 'here' ? [03:47]
Abelincoln whats up this is abe lincoln talking from the dead yo [03:47]
Adlai asciilifeform: we = same we that are emulating drum printers, here = our efforts to go beyond drum printers [03:48]
decimation abe you were a murderous tyrant who birthed modern usg [03:48]
asciilifeform decimation: also 100 to 1 he's 'meow mix' [03:48]
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mircea_popescu brendio ?! [03:50]
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decimation I have a question about deedbot [03:51]
decimation is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time? [03:51]
decimation one would imagine that keeping the pile of all past deeds would become cumbersome [03:51]
mircea_popescu uh ?! [03:52]
asciilifeform ! [03:52]
mircea_popescu dude it grows 100% a year haven't you heard ? [03:52]
asciilifeform didn't we do this already [03:52]
asciilifeform in babylon. [03:52]
asciilifeform ended badly, iirc [03:52]
decimation well, I was thinking about undata's problem [03:52]
mircea_popescu knapsacks grow faster than things to put in them! [03:52]
mircea_popescu by order of usgavin [03:52]
asciilifeform 'bag of holding' ! [03:53]
decimation imagine a century from now, someone wants to verify a deed - he would need to transmit potentially millions of deed hashes [03:53]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform bag of treasuries. [03:53]
Adlai decimation: s/deed/transaction/ [03:53]
mircea_popescu decimation wait wut ? [03:53]
mircea_popescu you only need to verify the bundle in question [03:53]
* Adlai is a little curious about this deed stuf [03:54]
decimation well, if the hash of the bundle is included in the bundle, how did the hash end up in the bundle? [03:54]
asciilifeform << more re character representation [03:54]
thestringpuller !s from:mircea_popescu sha1 [03:54]
assbot 4 results for 'from:mircea_popescu sha1' : [03:54]
mircea_popescu decimation all submitted deeds during one hour go in the same bundle./ [03:54]
Adlai asciilifeform: thx [03:55]
decimation okay, so each bundle has a hash, and the privkey of that bundle is the hash of the list of all past hashes [03:55]
mircea_popescu dude omg. not like he didn't say and get quoted x times. [03:56]
mircea_popescu !s from:punkman hash [03:56]
assbot 13 results for 'from:punkman hash' : [03:56]
mircea_popescu [03:56]
assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key [03:56]
BingoBoingo << Coinfire has more people supposing important letters [03:56]
asciilifeform 'A character and its encoding are different concepts. An encoding and its (external) representation are different concepts. An external representation and the numeric values of whatever unit it is made up of are different concepts. By conflating all four concepts into one, Unix has held text processing and computing in general back several decades. This is fairly ironic, since Unix started out as a text proce [03:57]
asciilifeform ssing vehicle.' ( ) [03:57]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo we probably should send them some letters too. [03:57]
aabtc Abelincoln Adlai aegis agamemnon23 agorecki AlexWkz altoz AndrewJackson Anduck Apocalyptic arij artifexd asciilifeform assbot atcbot Azelphur [03:57]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: All of the letters, entire doctors full of letters. [03:57]
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decimation I guess it's not worth worrying about until there's an uptake in deedbot usage [03:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform eh i don't even agree. fuck all this subtlety of amuk idiocy. a character, its encoding, the representation thereof and its numeric value are all THE SAME THING. forever. [03:58]
mircea_popescu anyone trying to divorce any of these gets to burn in hell. [03:58]
mircea_popescu 27 letters and fuck you. [03:58]
asciilifeform - and --- forever. [03:58]
asciilifeform tidididahdahdah... [03:58]
mircea_popescu fixed offset. [03:58]
mircea_popescu NO PASARAN [03:58]
* asciilifeform dusts off telegraph key [03:58]
decimation .... .. - .... . .-. . [03:59]
asciilifeform shortwavecoin awaits. [03:59]
mircea_popescu -. --- / .--. .- ... .- .-. .- -. [03:59]
decimation bitcoin shortwavecoin [03:59]
thestringpuller ... --- ... [04:00]
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bounce also, one case. only. ever. [04:01]
asciilifeform OK [04:01]
asciilifeform 101 [04:01]
bounce typical how you're both reverting to upper case. who said that had to be the only one available? [04:01]
thestringpuller I don't like it when mircea_popescu yells. [04:02]
mircea_popescu SHUT UP BOUNCE [04:02]
bounce because logic. sure. [04:02]
mircea_popescu no, because allcaps! [04:02]
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Adlai (setf *print-case* :downcase) ; pls [04:02]
mircea_popescu it's like if there were only one gender, [04:02]
mircea_popescu it'd be men. [04:02]
decimation most morse operators who have to send numbers use shortened versions [04:03]
decimation so zero ----- becomes - or 't' [04:03]
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decimation how's that for symbol/number representation [04:03]
bounce no, it wouldn't. wouldn't be women either. [04:03]
asciilifeform ooloi. [04:03]
asciilifeform ;;google ooloi [04:03]
gribble Oankali - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis Trilogy: An Introduction - Biology: ; Imago: Book Three of the Xenogenesis Series (1989): [04:03]
mircea_popescu yes it wouldn't be women lol [04:03]
Adlai if there were only one gender, "gender" the concept wouldn't exist [04:04]
asciilifeform (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.) [04:04]
mircea_popescu Adlai how come everyone's smart yet the concept of stupid exists ? [04:04]
Abelincoln hi [04:04]
Abelincoln whats up everyone [04:04]
Abelincoln WHATS UP [04:04]
decimation !down Abelincoln [04:05]
mircea_popescu !down Abelincoln [04:05]
* assbot removes voice from Abelincoln [04:05]
asciilifeform lol, firing squad [04:05]
mircea_popescu yeah, not qualified to troll here. go learn moirse. [04:05]
undata innovation is happening; deploy SEC! [04:05]
Adlai the gradient of idiocy is far more nuanced, although i guess our dead president is anchoring one end of it [04:05]
decimation eh. every new bureaucrat knows that they can 'embrace and extend' new territory by trying to 'get there first' [04:06]
mircea_popescu Over at, we rewrote the site from Lisp to Python in the past week. It was pretty much done in one weekend. << lawl. [04:06]
bounce rulemaking, the frontier [04:06]
Adlai they must have been using the algol-compatibility subset [04:06]
bounce so what were the motivation and benefits of doing that? [04:07]
asciilifeform 'skilled man can write fortran in any language' [04:07]
Adlai it's kinda sad that going from CL to Python is a step backwards in concurrency support [04:07]
mircea_popescu bounce old story, 2005ish. "runs faster" [04:07]
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decimation if true, it's probably that their lisp was retarded [04:08]
mircea_popescu "The Lisp newsgroup, comp.lang.lisp, was upset about the switch that they’re currently planning to write a competitor to reddit in Lisp, to show how right they are or something." << never happened, of course. [04:08]
decimation [04:08]
Adlai bwahahahah [04:08]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually, the funny part - it sorta did. graham and his 'arc' (which was actually a spray paint over, if i recall, mzscheme) [04:09]
Adlai a reddit infested with c.l.l trolls would be interesting... i hope they'd bring along the markov chain idiocy spammers too [04:09]
asciilifeform ended up filling all the ancient stereotypes about 'slow' [04:09]
Adlai it's the fifty-year language, it takes fifty years until the HTTP client gets implemented [04:09]
undata dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django [04:10]
asciilifeform Adlai: funny, because one of the first http stacks was john mallery's - in common lisp. [04:10]
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asciilifeform on symbolics box, no less. ran last at the clinton white house, of all places. [04:10]
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* Adlai didn't know, but isn't surprised [04:10]
thestringpuller undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js [04:10]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [04:10]
thestringpuller rap* [04:10]
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mircea_popescu anyway, that article is all about how arron s is great and wonderful. [04:11]
mircea_popescu which... whatever, when i start fucking boys i might care. [04:11]
nubbins` he can swear to his gods that he didn't make copies, but what kind of proof could possibly suffice as proof to a skeptic ? <<< probably no more than a few days of torture [04:11]
thestringpuller "when"? [04:11]
thestringpuller ^ mircea_popescu [04:11]
undata thestringpuller: the only way I can tolerate python is by considering it "functional" in the weak sense [04:12]
asciilifeform 'when we'll eat long pig? when short pig is through' [04:12]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller women will eventually run out... [04:12]
jurov kakobrekla ponder this bit of wisdom from naggum: it has been instructive to see how people suddenly grasp that a date is always read and written in ISO 8601 format although the machine actually deals with it as a large integer... [04:12]
jurov ..Unix folks who are used to seeing the number _or_ a hacked-up crufty version of `ctime' output are truly amazed by this. [04:12]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: how so? [04:12]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller because they're cuntable. [04:13]
thestringpuller harhar [04:13]
thestringpuller [04:13]
decimation herr walker just introduced me to the 'rust' language: [04:14]
decimation it's kinda like c++ without the libraries [04:14]
undata decimation: the immutability by default thing is cool [04:15]
asciilifeform fuck immutability. [04:15]
decimation yeah, I don't get how that helps [04:15]
asciilifeform whenever someone says 'immutability', i wish i could replace his ram with antifuse rom. [04:15]
decimation lol [04:15]
asciilifeform all the immutability you can handle. [04:16]
* Adlai is still waiting for a language to implement [04:16]
asciilifeform till it comes out yer ears. [04:16]
decimation asciilifeform: it's another symptom of the 'protect the programmer from himself' mentality [04:16]
asciilifeform nah [04:16]
asciilifeform it actually comes from the 'mathemasturbators' [04:16]
decimation ah, in terms of proofs? [04:17]
nubbins` !s sha256sum [04:17]
assbot 5 results for 'sha256sum' : [04:17]
asciilifeform the 'we embezzled 40 years of grantola from usg to pretend our fourth-rate mathematics is relevant to computing' folks. [04:17]
mircea_popescu ^ [04:17]
undata I'm blessed to be among perfect programmers. [04:17]
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undata as for myself, as many constraints as possible, please. [04:17]
asciilifeform haskell, ml, hindley-milner type systems. [04:17]
nubbins` anyone have a link handy for deed verification process? [04:17]
undata strict types, etc [04:17]
nubbins` n/m [04:18]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: well, its not hard to beat "hi you have incoming ddos, I understand this can be frustrating as this type of attack is usually a sign that your droplet has been compromised" <<< ahahaha wut ? [04:18]
mircea_popescu dude, logic. [04:18]
Adlai undata: run forrest, run! break out of those crutches! [04:18]
undata Adlai: when you intend to, you simply specify something mutable [04:18]
mircea_popescu "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut." [04:18]
Adlai run forrest, run! [04:18]
Adlai undata: see the object identity paper [04:19]
undata Adlai: I am already bigoted against OOP [04:19]
undata should I bother? [04:19]
Adlai yes [04:20]
Adlai once upon a time, "object" meant something other than "instance of a class" [04:20]
mircea_popescu i think oop is generally despised here. [04:20]
undata Adlai: I'd rather just have my types over here, and functions over there which use them [04:20]
undata I'll read it though. [04:20]
undata mircea_popescu: objects are just an intermediate shitbucket between global and local [04:21]
Adlai the paper has nothing to do with OOP, "object" could equally be replaced by "data" [04:21]
asciilifeform the crop of junk-oop systems of the 1990s will be tremendously expensive to future folks, who will avoid anything that smacks of 'objects' even when a particular apparatus actually wants to be represented in that shape [04:21]
* assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal [04:22]
mircea_popescu undata as actually encountered, pretty much. asciilifeform i guess so. [04:22]
* asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS [04:22]
* bounce doesn't mind OOP. there's some good ideas in there, even if most practitioners didn't get it. [04:22]
asciilifeform ;;google art of metaobject protocol [04:22]
gribble The Art of the Metaobject Protocol: Gregor Kiczales, Jim des ...: ; The Art of the Metaobject Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; MetaObject Protocol - Association of Lisp Users: [04:22]
asciilifeform ^ as described there. [04:22]
bounce quite sure that if there wasn't OOP they'd've thought of something else to write crap code in [04:22]
mircea_popescu i guess a fairer evaluation is to say oop got the blessing of suck, the way www did. [04:22]
mircea_popescu experts everywhere. [04:22]
asciilifeform blessing of suck <<<<< [04:22]
Adlai asciilifeform: seen this? [04:22]
Adlai turns out people actually use it [04:22]
mircea_popescu !s sykopomp [04:23]
assbot 2 results for 'sykopomp' : [04:23]
mircea_popescu actually in teh logs. we got everything weird! [04:23]
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decimation oop is one of those things that sounds great on paper, but when a group of programmers try to use it they end up with unmaintainable spaghetti code [04:23]
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asciilifeform i've yet to meet a 'reinventor' of clos who actually understood all of clos [04:23]
asciilifeform or even showed symptoms of having so much as smelled the book gas in kiczales et al [04:24]
mircea_popescu i'm never going to catch up to this log, am i. [04:24]
Adlai mircea_popescu: actually not in the logs, unless anybody paid attention when i brought it up :) [04:24]
asciilifeform doesn't mean this 'nessie' isn't alive and well in some loch. [04:24]
mircea_popescu Adlai i still got the impression it was discussed before. maybe im just confused, maybe assbot was down right then, dunno. [04:24]
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* asciilifeform blows dust off kiczales [04:24]
* asciilifeform notices no dust. because uses. [04:25]
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decimation asciilifeform: I get the feeling that oop is sick at a metaphysical level [04:25]
asciilifeform oop as straightjacked (i.e. other than clos) - yes. [04:25]
asciilifeform *straightjacket [04:25]
Adlai we got stuck on how to implement a MOP for sheeple, and it hasn't seen enough use for people to miss it... but it's a rather faithful translation of MOPless CLOS [04:25]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: ;;later tell DanielKrawisz Looking forward to seeing you rationalize this gem <<< i dunno, it's like the guy went off the deep end past coupla weeks. [04:25]
mircea_popescu major bender or something. [04:25]
* bounce forgot who argued that of the four main things in OOP only encapsulation was really important, but things like (multiple) inheritance are just that much shinier [04:26]
undata oop is shitty function dispatch paired with some implicit scope stapled to your functions [04:26]
undata why? [04:26]
asciilifeform dafuq's the point of mopless clos [04:26]
mircea_popescu Adlai oh, you involved with the project ? [04:26]
asciilifeform that's like cockless man [04:26]
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asciilifeform dulap!!! [04:26]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform cockless man is sitll not woman! [04:26]
asciilifeform aha. [04:26]
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Adlai pls. [04:27]
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Adlai sykopomp was satoshi to my usgavin [04:27]
mircea_popescu fucking "Loading contributions…" [04:27]
asciilifeform the pitiful object systems that lack even basics like 'mixins' are not merely cockless, but armless, legless [04:27]
mircea_popescu take yer javascript an' shove it. fucking ajax things. [04:28]
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bounce next you'll be saying ruby is the future [04:28]
undata haaaa [04:28]
mircea_popescu ruby is the failure [04:29]
mircea_popescu closest it gets to future. [04:29]
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asciilifeform the ruby by yukihiro 'i half-learned common lisp, i confess' matsumoto ? [04:29]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: this represents a 200% greater loss than last year while revenue doubled. <<< yeah, the time to short the pos approaches. [04:29]
* mircea_popescu remembers riding rimm all the way down. [04:29]
* dnaleor_ is now known as dnaleor [04:30]
mircea_popescu pete_dushenski: hmm do comments not yield trackbacks? << wut ? [04:30]
undata python would be if not advisable, forgivible if someone ripped the classes out [04:30]
undata and added type annotations [04:31]
Adlai in ze end, ve vil al be speking german... [04:31]
mircea_popescu undata well they made their own class structure, back then [04:31]
* asciilifeform still can't grasp how a programming system having 'global interpreter lock' became a beloved tool [04:31]
undata because people are followers and it wasn't an informed decision [04:32]
* asciilifeform only has one theory, 'good-cop-bad-cop symbiosis' with perl [04:32]
bounce power of the crowd? [04:32]
* undata thinks random shuffling among the things people are capable of [04:32]
asciilifeform no, power of the frying pan [04:32]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah I remember rejecting perl; finding pythong as the best alternative [04:32]
Adlai the GIL is good for limiting the amount of toes you can shoot off at once [04:32]
decimation they didn't teach lisp in those days [04:32]
asciilifeform who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist [04:33]
Adlai do they teach lisp in any days, these days? [04:33]
undata man, this is the generation of programmers that thinks nosql is a great idea [04:33]
asciilifeform no. [04:33]
undata nobody knows shit. [04:33]
asciilifeform the folks who attend uni, sometimes even worse than never hearing of it at all, learn 'LISP' [04:33]
decimation asciilifeform: as in some ancient turd? [04:33]
asciilifeform that is, a deliberately archaic variant that brings back all the dark age stereotypes (slow, no iteration constructs, poor i/o) [04:33]
asciilifeform this generally ruins folks for life on the concept itself [04:34]
* undata grumbles about a bunch of JS developers farting out things like couchdb [04:34]
mircea_popescu who in his right mind would consider 'apple', for instance, if microshit did not exist << i don't run a windows machine. for me ms might as well not exist. however, i did get apple powered tablet to check out their game marketplace. [04:34]
mircea_popescu don't forget that. apple isn't a tech company, it's a media company. [04:34]
asciilifeform ^ different thing here [04:34]
mircea_popescu like LMVH, but exactly. [04:34]
* asciilifeform has a collection of apple gizmos for similar purposes [04:35]
mircea_popescu apple it's what yahoo has aspired at all these years. if they had any sense, they wouldn't have hired melissa no clue, they'd have hired jobs back then [04:35]
Adlai they've made some nice hardware too [04:35]
mircea_popescu Adlai in the sense of gucci bags, nice. [04:35]
asciilifeform afaik 'yahoo' was 'mmm' from day 1. [04:35]
Adlai well yes, that is a valid sense of the word [04:35]
mircea_popescu girl-nice, not boy-nice [04:35]
decimation asciilifeform: as in 3M? [04:35]
asciilifeform nope [04:35]
asciilifeform !s mavrodi [04:36]
assbot 0 results for 'mavrodi' : [04:36]
asciilifeform ;;google mavrodi mmm [04:36]
gribble Sergei Mavrodi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; MMM (Ponzi scheme company) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Новости МММ-2012 - page screenshot of ...: [04:36]
decimation ah multilevel marketing [04:36]
asciilifeform pyramid. [04:36]
Adlai dunno, some of apple's earlier hardware was boy-nice too [04:36]
mircea_popescu and they nearly went bankrupt with it. [04:36]
asciilifeform who, exactly, sells 'boy' nice ? [04:36]
asciilifeform today. [04:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the chinese. [04:37]
* Adlai likes his lenovo thinkpad [04:37]
mircea_popescu ^ lmao [04:37]
mats_cd03 [04:37]
* asciilifeform prods barely-adequate lenovo [04:37]
decimation eh, chinese just build to us specs generally [04:37]
Adlai the IBM thinkpad is good too, and still running like clockwork, 12 years later [04:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform golden turd, remember ? [04:37]
Adlai although linux may have something to do with this [04:37]
kakobrekla golden turd? downed pilot. [04:38]
mats_cd03 nvm paywalled, don't click that [04:38]
asciilifeform running like clockwork, 12 years later << so wat. i've a symbolics 3620 'running like clockwork' 28 years later. [04:38]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla "golden phoenix" [04:38]
Adlai ! [04:38]
asciilifeform golden turd corp. - will build anything, yes. [04:38]
Adlai do you actually have a lispm? [04:38]
asciilifeform !s 3620 [04:38]
assbot 12 results for '3620' : [04:38]
kakobrekla Adlai its for sale in bitcoin otc [04:38]
asciilifeform Adlai: not only, but it's for sale. [04:39]
asciilifeform aha [04:39]
Adlai vnhm? [04:39]
* Adlai looks in the otc book [04:39]
mircea_popescu cazalla: question if anyone can help - is there a genuine security reason for someone to refuse to disclose how they generate entropy for the private keys contained in their physical bitcoin coin products? << not really, no. other than "we don't have a clue how it's done but this is sekoority and so being mysterious is the next best thing" [04:39]
mats_cd03 << anybody else read this and think taleb is way off base? [04:39]
mircea_popescu mats_cd03 as in, didn't understand taleb's point ? or as in what ? [04:40]
asciilifeform [04:40]
assbot Logged on 18-08-2014 16:12:29; asciilifeform: but no, somehow, 'gmo' equals what monsanto inc. does. [04:40]
asciilifeform [04:40]
assbot Logged on 12-09-2014 19:19:30; asciilifeform: except - they aren't banning monsanto garbage. they're banning 'gmo.' [04:40]
asciilifeform !s monsanto [04:40]
Adlai where? [04:40]
assbot 38 results for 'monsanto' : [04:40]
undata mats_cd03: probably going to need a biologist to get a reasonable response [04:41]
asciilifeform Adlai: [04:41]
assbot Logged on 26-09-2014 23:50:40; asciilifeform: ;;sell 1 "Symbolics 3620 Lisp Machine. Photos:" at 3 btc must pick up in Washington, D.C. area, this item cannot be shipped economically. [04:41]
undata who fucking knows; it's like anything with humans. we'll do it, I know that for sure. [04:41]
undata and so we'll find out [04:41]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform tbh i always wondered about the "shipping economically" part. surely 100lbs worth of various things have been shipped before, even in the us ? [04:41]
Adlai ammo! [04:42]
undata it's like Elon Musk recently with AI. He's been calling that "potentially more dangerous than nukes" [04:42]
undata maybe so, but if it can happen, it will happen [04:42]
decimation in the us, with that weight class, one must deal with 'freight operators' [04:42]
Adlai asciilifeform: still for sale for 3btc? [04:42]
mircea_popescu go go teamsters union for btc! [04:42]
decimation can be done, just a pain in the ass [04:42]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: good question! answer: packing it in such a way as to guarantee safe shipping would be prohibitively expensive. the man i bought it from, david schmidt (last symbolics employee) refuses to ship his remaining stock, after a multitude of DOAs. [04:42]
kakobrekla STILL has stock? [04:43]
asciilifeform it's been a few years since i asked. [04:43]
Adlai (it's not in the b-otc order book anymore) [04:43]
asciilifeform write/telephone him. [04:43]
asciilifeform yes, still for sale [04:43]
kakobrekla just curious, not worthy of bothering the man. [04:43]
asciilifeform wtf did the otc go ? [04:43]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: he loves being bothered. [04:43]
kakobrekla asciilifeform expired order? [04:43]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: ancient grandfather type [04:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know such a thing as cpt/cip exists [04:44]
mircea_popescu doesn't have to be exw [04:44]
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asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase. [04:44]
asciilifeform a 100kg ming vase. [04:44]
decimation surely symbolics shipped these when they were new [04:45]
asciilifeform plus the only way the buyer can be sure that it functions, is to power it on where it stands now. [04:45]
asciilifeform otherwise he can say 'scammer, shipped dud' [04:45]
mircea_popescu i guess this is a point [04:45]
asciilifeform (most of the extant units are duds at this point) [04:45]
decimation well, that's a good point, electrolytics and everything like that [04:45]
asciilifeform those aren't the problem [04:45]
asciilifeform the multitude of card edge connectors, mainly, are, plus the ancient hdd [04:45]
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mircea_popescu that should be fixable no ? the card edges [04:46]
asciilifeform fixable how? [04:46]
decimation connector springs fail? [04:46]
asciilifeform if they snap - that's that [04:46]
asciilifeform the edges themselves. fiberglass pcb. [04:46]
decimation ah [04:46]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno, epoxy paste ? [04:46]
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mircea_popescu people can reconstruct tits and virginity. you telling me they can't remake a board edge ? [04:47]
asciilifeform also have to appreciate the hdd. if it croaks, an equivalent unit will not actually make the machine go. os can only be installed from tape. i own neither the tape deck nor the tape. [04:47]
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mircea_popescu !up JimDowJones [04:47]
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asciilifeform a serious museum curator - such as david s. - could finesse these issues, yes. [04:47]
Duffer1 asciilifeform it would have to be packed and handled like a ming vase >> bonded courier [04:47]
asciilifeform this particular machine was, iirc, assembled from surviving parts of the DOAs. [04:48]
mircea_popescu Duffer1 he has a point tho, museums routinely pay exorbitant fees to move their fragile shoit around. [04:48]
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asciilifeform bonded courier will test box at my house prior to shipment? lol [04:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep. [04:48]
Duffer1 no doubt, sorry i've only followed a few lines of the convo :P [04:48]
* assbot gives voice to mike_c [04:48]
asciilifeform there are perhaps 20 people on planet qualified to test this machine. [04:48]
asciilifeform as in, verify that all the parts actually function. [04:48]
mircea_popescu so they will have to hire one. [04:48]
asciilifeform as things are now, i expect that it will be brought to my 'peine forte et dure.' [04:48]
mircea_popescu undertand, shipping is a solved problem. it just costs money, but it's not the case that consumer mail is all there is. [04:49]
asciilifeform i will certainly ask for it... [04:49]
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asciilifeform i know full well that it's a solved problem. [04:49]
BingoBoingo For a sufficiently exorbitant price I may be willing to serve as courier within CONUS. [04:49]
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asciilifeform i am swimming in 'solved problems' that i - in particular - cannot access the solutions to. [04:49]
asciilifeform because - elementarily - cost. [04:49]
mircea_popescu :D [04:50]
mircea_popescu !b 3 [04:50]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [04:50]
mircea_popescu it's better than swimming in fresh curetage product [04:50]
mircea_popescu if only marginally. [04:50]
asciilifeform lol [04:50]
* assbot gives voice to adlai [04:50]
asciilifeform !s shitburial [04:50]
assbot 3 results for 'shitburial' : [04:50]
* assbot gives voice to gernika [04:51]
* asciilifeform seriously considered donating the box to 'smithsonian' [04:52]
mircea_popescu omg kakobrekla bitbet is down! [04:52]
kakobrekla ikr. [04:52]
mircea_popescu scam finally ran with the bitcoinz ? [04:52]
kakobrekla all 4 of them. [04:52]
mircea_popescu i knew mp would never pay on that berkshire bet. [04:52]
decimation I was listening to this podcast: << the guy from the satellite company said he had to drive his small sats to the shake table [04:53]
decimation sats encountered more shock on the road [04:53]
kakobrekla hm, some berkshire bettors must be sweating. [04:53]
mircea_popescu punkman: asciilifeform: cazalla: little to gain, plenty to lose << but they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << asciilifeform yes, nobody requires them to send sample units. something like "we're buying atmospheric noise off folks" or "sixty free cs servers, and we suck the urand pool dry" or w/e. [04:53]
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asciilifeform point is, why tell tale if no one will believe. [04:54]
mircea_popescu i guess. [04:54]
TheNewDeal no bitbet mirror? [04:54]
mircea_popescu TheNewDeal kako's workin' on it. [04:54]
mircea_popescu im just here eating cookies and giving him a hard time. [04:54]
TheNewDeal before I can even think it [04:55]
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Duffer1 usg dossing it? [04:55]
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mircea_popescu Duffer1 nah moar like, random derp. [04:55]
* nubbins` groans [04:55]
asciilifeform decimation: sats encountered more shock on the road << see also the famous film 'longitude' [04:55]
mircea_popescu this is beneficial tho, i had some good lolz reading the support tickets earlier in logs [04:55]
nubbins` punkman, a code snippet from your deed processing routine plz? [04:56]
TheNewDeal example? [04:56]
Duffer1 i can imagine mp lol [04:56]
mircea_popescu [04:56]
decimation yeah most pendulum clocks didn't do well in a swaying ship [04:56]
assbot Logged on 28-10-2014 02:16:07; mircea_popescu: "you have been raped. i understand this can be frustrationg as this is usually a sign that you are in fact a slut." [04:56]
Duffer1 panic attacks areen't fun [04:56]
asciilifeform decimation: nah, the scene where harrison's opponents contrieve to have his clock shipped from one town to another on a suspension-less oxcart [04:57]
mircea_popescu punkbot yeah can deedbot be os yet [04:57]
TheNewDeal that link was like dejavu [04:57]
BingoBoingo << Oh, YCombinator guy who imagines he killed food pretends to do the same for water and sanitation [04:57]
decimation asciilifeform: I bet you had alot of sympathy for harrison [04:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform to make omlet, you need to break eggs! [04:57]
TheNewDeal nubbins` was asking for a deed snippet [04:57]
TheNewDeal oop was getting trashed [04:57]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo if only he could be teamed up with templeos guy. [04:57]
nubbins` TheNewDeal i'm just trying to verify one of these things but it's hard if i don't know the process [04:58]
mircea_popescu nubbins` you know it was listed like 5 times in da log ? most recently an hour ago ? [04:58]
TheNewDeal I feel ya, I would like to learn as well. Seems like an incredibly useful tool [04:58]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: At least TempleOS is fun in a retro way. Future archaologist may imagine it was actually widely used by a large sect [04:58]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo they could solve DREAMS dude. [04:59]
BingoBoingo Or make all of the sleep REM [04:59]
nubbins` mircea_popescu yeah and there's something more to it than that, because instructions as given don't work [04:59]
nubbins` [04:59]
assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key [04:59]
mircea_popescu "don't work" is the best error message, after... anything else. [05:00]
asciilifeform 'guru meditation error' [05:00]
mircea_popescu at least that has a stack trace, something. [05:01]
nubbins` fair enough [05:01]
nubbins` following the instructions as provided does not result in the same private key [05:02]
nubbins` how else would it not work? :S [05:02]
mircea_popescu you could list the private key you got. [05:02]
mircea_popescu so we can verify you did in fact follow the instruction rather than honestly think you did. [05:02]
nubbins` working with genesis deed: [05:03]
nubbins` first, sha256sum: fb53b9449532fbca07a611572ae4424932e36c7ce492785a9a028bb019cb78a0 [05:04]
nubbins` in base58: Hv5NuwL5sSvAvWQWSQGDehN5ysrfPvxoVdosrWfk3kAB [05:04]
gernika mircea_popescu: Can you recommend a good neighborhood for a short stay in Buenos Aires? [05:04]
mircea_popescu gernika are you rich ? [05:04]
nubbins` sha256sum again: 049aebffb61c7f2497a11a1d70bf2756ceb0d1b259823bf1e9b70ff617911325 [05:04]
gernika no [05:05]
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nubbins` base58 again: JyeP2YHXHzHr8HtyAf2cq5bLRMwuKH5hCWBYoPdqrfe [05:05]
mircea_popescu gernika if you like to hang out with expats/foreign kids the palermos and perhaps ricoletta. [05:05]
mircea_popescu recoleta* [05:06]
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gernika mircea_popescu ok. had been looking at palermo. [05:07]
mircea_popescu nubbins`'s host kicked him off the internets because he has been posting base58 strings to irc. [05:07]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` ty! [05:08]
asciilifeform you all doing the 'sha(sha(...' by the neck until dead thing? [05:09]
decimation maybe he put a comma after? [05:09]
mircea_popescu decimation i think he omitted the comma after. [05:09]
cazalla [05:10]
mircea_popescu 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case. [05:10]
mircea_popescu so the more likely hypo is "osx fucks up characters yo!" [05:12]
* assbot gives voice to nubbins` [05:12]
nubbins` so for a single deed, trailing comma or no? [05:13]
nubbins` mircea_popescu impossibru ;p [05:13]
mircea_popescu i think always trailing comma, but anyway, your 1st sha is off ? [05:13]
nubbins` sec [05:13]
asciilifeform fucks up characters yo << recall also how various turdware mutilates quotation marks. [05:14]
asciilifeform (not sure if this is at play here) [05:15]
mircea_popescu i guess best practice, "1st check deed signature, then hash to verify deed". [05:15]
mircea_popescu goose and gander process. [05:15]
nubbins` er yeah, i don't get the same shasum as you at all [05:15]
* nubbins` frowns [05:15]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` see how much better life is here in the paradise of proper error messages ? [05:16]
mircea_popescu << this agrees with me btw. [05:16]
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nubbins` wait, no, there we go [05:17]
* assbot removes voice from JimDowJones [05:17]
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nubbins` reading it from a file here produces a different hash [05:20]
* nubbins` raises eyebrow [05:20]
mircea_popescu clearly you are in charge of your computing. [05:23]
mircea_popescu cazalla << nice. [05:24]
nubbins` clearly :/ [05:24]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: punkman: they could at least vaguely describe their process/tools << and you'll believe? << for the record, description is not strictly a belief-driven phenomenon. consider at its most basic, schooling. teacher describes to you grammar. do you believe ? no, if you're in any way sane, not right off. but eventually what was a hypothesis gets tested out. [05:26]
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mircea_popescu the wot, incidentally, works on exactly the same premise. one can make any declaration one wishes. it's not believed per se, but that's irrelevant. as time goes by confirmation either mouts or does not. [05:27]
asciilifeform in this case - belief. [05:27]
mircea_popescu i don't see how a case can be different from any other in a system where "one can make any declaration" [05:27]
asciilifeform namely, in the case of the physical coins, the only way to know whether you'll be fucked is - when you are. [05:28]
mircea_popescu business is not a matter of certain truth. [05:28]
BingoBoingo !b 3 [05:28]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [05:28]
mircea_popescu the way to know how long your cock is is to ask god, because obviously measurement will yield an error. [05:28]
asciilifeform let's rephase - the only information you will ever get re: being fucked, in the case of the physcoins, is being fucked. [05:29]
asciilifeform *rephrase [05:29]
mircea_popescu not so. this is like saying "the only way to identify boys from girls is as you're moaning". [05:29]
asciilifeform how exactly can mr. physcoin prove that he did not use mersenne twister for N....N+k for some N? [05:30]
mircea_popescu you can at the very least obtain the "most likely to fuckceed" information on a set of identifiable, different providers. [05:30]
asciilifeform how? [05:30]
mircea_popescu compare fuckhistory. [05:31]
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asciilifeform for physcoins - that's like measuring proton decay. [05:31]
asciilifeform hasn't happened, afaik. [05:31]
mircea_popescu incidentally, it occurs to me that while some start-ups succeed, a vast majority suckceed. [05:31]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is much weaker than your original statement tho [05:32]
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asciilifeform if i recall, that was, that none of these folks have much incentive to speak up re: process [05:33]
mircea_popescu and this is a cognate of "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends" [05:33]
asciilifeform lol [05:33]
mircea_popescu similarly of, "i have no interest signing other people's code" [05:33]
mircea_popescu which, incidentally, ima make a post about, cause this is starting to coallesce in my head. [05:33]
* asciilifeform has interest! but not for phree [05:33]
mircea_popescu brb. [05:34]
asciilifeform actually on second thought - better hypothesis for the physcoins - atavistic, Ur-fear of being pwned [05:34]
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thestringpuller mircea_popescu: "there's no point getting in the wot, i have real world friends" << WoT isn't Facebook...*sigh* [05:34]
* asciilifeform would sign code, if some loony were to pay what the kind of labour that is involved in honestly signing 'will die by this' actually costs... [05:35]
* assbot gives voice to hanbot [05:35]
asciilifeform even something as pedestrian as 'valgrind' is laborious for a large turdatronic system. [05:36]
kakobrekla actually costs... < well, your life. [05:36]
asciilifeform lives - cheap. quality work - costs. [05:37]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: what's an alternative to Valgrind? [05:38]
asciilifeform not using c/cpp/associated hardware. [05:38]
asciilifeform and valgrind is not a magic pill [05:38]
asciilifeform any more than 'lint' is. [05:38]
thestringpuller heh [05:38]
asciilifeform (who here even remembers lint.) [05:38]
mircea_popescu me. [05:39]
asciilifeform ^ [05:39]
mod6 me too [05:39]
* asciilifeform not alone in lintitude [05:39]
thestringpuller you guise r old [05:40]
mod6 i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium [05:40]
mod6 *legal too :D [05:41]
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thestringpuller mod6: i actually had a leagal drink for the billinium <<< i was just growing pubes. now I don't feel quite so old. [05:43]
mod6 heheh [05:43]
mircea_popescu i had my first legal drink in... 1990 ? something like that. [05:44]
cazalla [05:45]
mod6 so the day after the 'billennium', Sept. 9th 2001, I think that was the day that rummy was like "Oops, we somehow misplaced 1tn." [05:46]
mod6 *the day after [05:46]
mircea_popescu one trillion ? [05:46]
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mod6 yeah. i was like "holy shit! is this guy kidding?! how do you do that?!" [05:47]
thestringpuller Didn't a shipping container with 100 billion or so get lost in Iraq in the early 2000's as well? [05:47]
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thestringpuller nvm 12 bn [05:47]
asciilifeform in genuine benjies no less [05:47]
thestringpuller [05:47]
undata in the movie, the CIA stole it and started ISIS with it [05:48]
nubbins` okay, i just wasn't stripping newline from eof [05:49]
nubbins` so 1st shasum: 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 [05:49]
nubbins` to base58: 2zCwsSPNidLE9aEBTx4bh6Vrv7XrmJa9fAw8o8S8wrCX [05:49]
nubbins` second shasum: 581beb0a0aec036351e239da11595fe67c1cf5dc817019716999f2040b96e84f [05:49]
mod6 ok, actually, it was 2.3tn [05:49]
* mod6 laughs [05:49]
nubbins` now what? [05:49]
asciilifeform 'Asked what had happened to the $8.8bn he replied: "I have no idea. I can't tell you whether or not the money went to the right things or didn't - nor do I actually think it's important."' [05:50]
mircea_popescu nubbins` now import it ? [05:51]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform win. [05:51]
nubbins` mircea_popescu according to i'm supposed to end up with the brainwallet passphrase "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ" [05:51]
TheNewDeal is it sha > sha > base58? [05:51]
mod6 i remember watching it on tv [05:51]
nubbins` but i don't know how to get from the second shasum to that [05:52]
mod6 they probably 1984'd it [05:52]
nubbins` TheNewDeal sha > base58 > sha > ??? [05:52]
TheNewDeal sorry, was just a guess [05:52]
nubbins` > brainwallet passphrase > private key [05:52]
mircea_popescu nubbins` another 58 in there no ? [05:53]
nubbins` [05:54]
assbot Logged on 26-10-2014 20:32:15; punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key [05:54]
nubbins` beats me! [05:54]
mircea_popescu a ok, so 2nd sha is the privkey. import it nao ? [05:54]
nubbins` doing an additional base58 doesn't produce BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ [05:54]
nubbins` 2nd sha is not the privkey afaict [05:55]
nubbins` privkey is 5HsNWxt5bbBiSvVWbtXMBcoQTzfXgqyPEmDWcAymXdu1o9edra3 [05:55]
mircea_popescu how do you know that ? [05:55]
mod6 [05:56]
nubbins` because that's the private key generated from brainwallet passphrase BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ [05:56]
mircea_popescu why's brainwallet passphrase enter in here ? [05:56]
nubbins` o.O [05:56]
nubbins` [05:56]
nubbins` [05:57]
mircea_popescu nubbins` i don't get it ? [05:57]
mircea_popescu explain to me like i'm a nubbin! [05:57]
nubbins` :D [05:57]
nubbins` you put BXZ... into passphrase box [05:57]
nubbins` privkey 5HsN... comes up [05:57]
mircea_popescu so ? [05:57]
nubbins` pub address 149LB... comes up [05:57]
nubbins` since 149LB... is the public address indicated on the deed [05:58]
mircea_popescu you mean to tell me you reverse-engineered the privkey on the basis of the address ? [05:58]
nubbins` no, i mean to tell you i put the deed ID into and it spit out the associated public address [05:58]
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nubbins` if the deed ID is not a brainwallet passphrase, the laws of probability have broken down [05:59]
mircea_popescu 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 specifically ? [05:59]
nubbins` [05:59]
nubbins` [06:00]
mircea_popescu i seem to get 1EppwHWgqBVo9TdZmLWjpNMp7w5zyrKokB ? [06:00]
nubbins` you entering BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ into "passphrase" textbox? [06:01]
mircea_popescu yes. [06:01]
* nubbins` raises eyebrow [06:01]
mircea_popescu 3ab7aea90551ed0bebc37b66dae9ff9f89e60e15d9cc85ab76c922322a88b033 5JG9SZLueh5AcJEvMeZrNT3oHEd27hhUrFydq4EVVWC2RoXFc3S [06:01]
mircea_popescu 1D37yABoLo7Ma4LeR6jW8ZhJxLXdQmsbsH if i select compressed. [06:01]
nubbins` uh [06:02]
nubbins` if you enter kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA ? [06:02]
mircea_popescu 19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn / 1G7XajvC1SChrQqBzVG7mDMkAaiT1jWU4G [06:02]
* nubbins` raises other eyebrow [06:02]
nubbins` anyone else around? [06:02]
mircea_popescu careful you might run out. [06:02]
Duffer1 moo? [06:02]
dub i agree with nubbins` [06:03]
nubbins` Duffer1 [06:03]
nubbins` try passphrases kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA and BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ [06:03]
nubbins` paste addresses here [06:03]
Duffer1 1P2vYukzmiGp5B7otkDakvubVFmkiv7b3y [06:03]
mircea_popescu o.O [06:04]
nubbins` ... [06:04]
mircea_popescu nubbins` dude srsly you ended up with the magic salt [06:04]
mircea_popescu fell on the exact bundle pw ? [06:04]
* nubbins` slowly reaches for gun [06:04]
nubbins` no man [06:04]
mircea_popescu do you even know what the odds are ?! [06:04]
nubbins` [06:04]
mike_c 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 [06:04]
nubbins` kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA as passphrase produces 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e [06:04]
mircea_popescu what the shit. [06:05]
nubbins` mike_c: +1 [06:05]
Duffer1 fascinating [06:05]
nubbins` something's fucked somewhere [06:05]
nubbins` with several of you [06:05]
mircea_popescu 19xKa5GkCBFM9XnEcHp1mjoiXi7x7oXKzn <<< [06:05]
mircea_popescu let me take a ss just in case. [06:05]
mircea_popescu maybe im putting it in the wrong hole. [06:05]
nubbins` [06:06]
mircea_popescu < [06:06]
nubbins` er sorry [06:06]
BingoBoingo I thought brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time [06:07]
mircea_popescu it has been, yes [06:07]
mircea_popescu this seems a novel sparkle tho [06:07]
mod6 yikes [06:07]
nubbins` wtf? [06:07]
mircea_popescu nubbins` am i doing it right ? [06:08]
nubbins` yes [06:08]
mircea_popescu lemme paste the js [06:08]
mike_c mircea_popescu: whitespace matters [06:08]
nubbins` [06:08]
mircea_popescu mike_c where ? [06:08]
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Duffer1 13VBRJStiTVkJYUrvAdCvFdvFhVecRkb1e / 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 [06:08]
mircea_popescu i have no whitespace. [06:08]
mike_c in the passphrase.. if you have any [06:08]
nubbins` mircea_popescu i verified w/ a brainwallet generator i wrote myself [06:09]
nubbins` :s [06:09]
mircea_popescu so im on the brainwallet orphan chain over here ? [06:09]
* nubbins` throws up hands [06:09]
mike_c doge-brain [06:09]
nubbins` i have no idea what your cpu is smoking [06:09]
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mircea_popescu i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d - [06:10]
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mircea_popescu it can't be the case it can hash here but not there, my cpu [06:10]
nubbins` i have no idea what your cpu is smoking26d8fca64af52e7712a8ed89e8fd34ce9b22ee5e2b1800776cbb1434c200825d - [06:11]
mircea_popescu right. [06:11]
dub someone swapped your CPU for a potato [06:11]
mike_c this has gotta be a JS thing. [06:11]
nubbins` just put a single "1" in the passphrase [06:11]
mircea_popescu where ? [06:11]
nubbins` [06:11]
mircea_popescu oh, make passphrase = 1 [06:12]
mircea_popescu 17oEDveGfjVDuMyxbTHT6vw1Qvu2w2k9aV [06:12]
mike_c 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ [06:12]
mircea_popescu obviously. [06:12]
nubbins` 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ [06:12]
dub 12AKRNHpFhDSBDD9rSn74VAzZSL3774PxQ [06:12]
nubbins` hahahah [06:12]
mircea_popescu well... [06:12]
nubbins` protip: "secret exponent" = sha256sum [06:12]
mircea_popescu 5a692302f4231563cfeedaec090567e2477cebfa67d27d016a017bcd64c01911 5JW712UGBYBxp3UGNSzcQBGnPdpAsQMRKcczWJP8SJ65hiHV5WU [06:12]
nubbins` if your secret exponent is not 6b86b273ff34fce19d6b804eff5a3f5747ada4eaa22f1d49c01e52ddb7875b4b then something is borked [06:12]
mircea_popescu something is defo borked. [06:13]
nubbins` well i guess your week just got interesting [06:13]
mircea_popescu i guess it helps that i just wasn't using anyway [06:13]
nubbins` anyway. does anyone know how the fuck deeds generates these brainwallet passphrases? :D [06:13]
nubbins` 'cause i'm at a loss [06:14]
asciilifeform brainwallet was known to be retarded for some time << brainwallet is a fully-automatic iq test. [06:15]
BingoBoingo !b 1 [06:15]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( ) [06:15]
nubbins` seems like punkbot is the iq tes [06:16]
nubbins` t [06:16]
mircea_popescu << js dump if anyone cares. [06:17]
asciilifeform unrelated: << a little riot of a book. no-bullshit guide to (failed) attempts at ab initio sovereignty. (i met the author in person, incidentally. fun fella.) [06:17]
* asciilifeform never knew it was on the net, was actually about to w4r3z sc4n it & post, then found... [06:18]
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TheNewDeal what in the hell is that [06:22]
asciilifeform TheNewDeal: old book. [06:22]
TheNewDeal nonono, the js dump [06:22]
asciilifeform deedbot? [06:22]
TheNewDeal thats what this is < ? [06:23]
asciilifeform or possibly 'brainwallet' ? [06:23]
TheNewDeal ahh [06:23]
* mike_c has quit () [06:23]
asciilifeform aha brainwallet. [06:23]
nubbins` deeds is voodoo [06:28]
nubbins` 50 satoshi says it's generating random addresses [06:28]
mircea_popescu << asciilifeform, everyone. [06:29]
mircea_popescu TheNewDeal it's the dump of js as loaded on my system, because somehow it doesn't come to the same results as other people here. [06:31]
mircea_popescu yes, thing [06:32]
* asciilifeform oils, waits for clients [06:32]
mircea_popescu lol [06:32]
mircea_popescu *actual results could significantly differ [06:33]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i may have said this in the past, but this is rather like my 'elephant procurement company' (gedankenexperiment) [06:34]
mircea_popescu ( source ) [06:34]
asciilifeform i.e., i will procure elephants in a day, but no one will like what it costs. [06:34]
asciilifeform ('this' being my - so far hypothetical - little shop of ho^h^hcode review) [06:35]
asciilifeform but, at least it promises never to substitute chair leg with sticker 'elephant' on it. [06:36]
nubbins` mircea_popescu fwiw the function calc_hash() in your pasted JS is the one doing the lifting [06:37]
nubbins` var hash = Crypto.SHA256($('#pass').val(), { asBytes: true }); [06:37]
nubbins` $('#hash').val(Crypto.util.bytesToHex(hash)); [06:37]
ben_vulpes ricoletta << haw [06:38]
nubbins` you may be interested to paste a passphrase and in your JS console, type $('#pass').val() [06:38]
mircea_popescu no dragonfly here tho. [06:39]
nubbins` no chrome install either, i suppose? [06:40]
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mircea_popescu heh. nope [06:41]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu is on doom-playing box! [06:41]
nubbins` well i guess you just can't trust random web pages to generate your brainwallets ;D [06:41]
mircea_popescu nubbins` which works just as well, as i don't, [06:41]
mircea_popescu HOWEVER! it would seem to me this arrangement i got is actually stronger than youze [06:42]
mircea_popescu because if i were to use it, and you did get my pw... you still couldn't steal my monyz ? [06:42]
nubbins` certainly prevents dem fundz from being stole [06:42]
nubbins` "best locks in the world" [06:42]
mircea_popescu [06:42]
nubbins` "where's the keys?" "what?" [06:42]
asciilifeform you still couldn't steal my monyz << reminds me of all the folks with misaligned heads on their floppy drives [06:42]
asciilifeform disk would read on given unit and only there. [06:43]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform the frist time this happened, 5 inch drives, 11yo or so me & friends [06:43]
mircea_popescu it was fucking nuts [06:43]
asciilifeform aha. [06:43]
* BingoBoingo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) [06:43]
asciilifeform where do you think i stepped in it. [06:43]
mircea_popescu we took the unit on a sneakernet see what happens at everyone's house [06:43]
nubbins` ;;later tell punkman plz to provide complete pseudocode for deeds [06:44]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:44]
asciilifeform this happened, perhaps three or four times, to mine, same era; father took it each time to a greasemonkey in some illicit cellar; it would come back - wrapped in a filthy oilrag - aligned. [06:45]
asciilifeform (never saw anything but ru drives misalign.) [06:46]
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* assbot gives voice to BingoBoingo [06:47]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'The benefits of which one can’t evaluate, the drawbacks of which are certain.' >> obligatory >> [06:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform there actually existed special allignment disks [06:48]
mircea_popescu you could fix the thing with a steady hand and an amp [06:49]
asciilifeform greasemonkey probably had. [06:49]
ben_vulpes << sounds familiar [06:49]
asciilifeform today - i'd align the bugger myself [06:49]
asciilifeform it'd be a diversion. [06:49]
mircea_popescu quite. [06:49]
asciilifeform but today, other toys. [06:49]
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asciilifeform familiar << because ~everyone alive has seen it ? [06:50]
mircea_popescu for any good definition of "alive". [06:50]
asciilifeform aha. [06:50]
decimation asciilifeform: they were gonna launch a rocket tonight, visible from your house [06:51]
asciilifeform where? [06:51]
nubbins` .deed [06:51]
punkbot nubbins`: No valid deeds found, try again. [06:51]
decimation chincoteague [06:51]
nubbins` oh ya, must be signed [06:51]
nubbins` so much for testing simple case [06:51]
decimation wallops island, one of the orbital rockets [06:52]
ben_vulpes good god this log [06:52]
ben_vulpes what have you been doing [06:52]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it's not as big as it seems. [06:52]
decimation interestingly, it uses "AJ-26" engines, which were 'commercially purchased' by usg from... the soviet moon program [06:52]
asciilifeform rocket << must've missed. [06:52]
decimation turns out they were sitting surplus in ukraine for 30 years [06:52]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell pete_dushenski lol negatron brogrammer [06:52]
gribble The operation succeeded. [06:52]
decimation now the grassfuckers in charge buy them and call it 'commercial technology' [06:53]
asciilifeform eh, fire sale. [06:53]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i dropped out [06:53]
ben_vulpes ;;calc 9234 - 8414 [06:53]
gribble 820 [06:53]
ben_vulpes lines ago [06:53]
ben_vulpes HERE WE GO [06:53]
decimation we need to move off irc and onto a radio net [06:53]
asciilifeform rocket << rescheduled apparently [06:53]
mircea_popescu grassfuckers, this is a notable innovation. [06:54]
decimation yeah there was a boat in the 'no-boat' box [06:54]
asciilifeform [06:54]
decimation I think they are gonna try tomorrow [06:54]
decimation i'm sure it will be very bright and visible if it is a clear night [06:54]
mircea_popescu decimation are you going to fly any pilot drones around it ? [06:54]
decimation not me, I'm a zek [06:54]
ben_vulpes it's as if we were still using teletype << funny story, biz partner bought hisself some gps chips [06:54]
ben_vulpes had loads of fun discovering the parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate etc [06:55]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no fucking way today's log is 10k [06:55]
decimation I bought a chip that puts out 1pps to discipline my ovenized quartz oscillator [06:55]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: lol off by 10x [06:55]
asciilifeform parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate << i can recite these in my sleep now. [06:55]
ben_vulpes me, i mean [06:55]
decimation talk about ancient terminal cruft [06:55]
ben_vulpes wait no actually mircea_popescu u [06:56]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i always found it interesting that synchronous serial (between machines, notably) never caught on. [06:56]
ben_vulpes in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more. << so relevant [06:56]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla: funny, we have physical virtual coins, but most money is in fact virtual physical money instead. << it's all a function of the small amounts of quantity involved. [06:56]
decimation asciilifeform: it is used in golden toilet projects [06:57]
asciilifeform in golden toilets, usually items like 'can bus' [06:57]
asciilifeform and the .mil equivalnet [06:57]
ben_vulpes << that this is not should have been enough to prevent !ups [06:57]
asciilifeform *equivalent [06:57]
decimation [06:57]
asciilifeform nope. [06:58]
asciilifeform pisses out bits, does not wait for ack [06:58]
decimation ah I thought you meant synchronous with the clock line [06:58]
decimation << "* Ternary, Binary, (RS-232); or RS-422 " [06:59]
asciilifeform brainfart [06:59]
decimation apparently usg uses ternary serial [07:00]
asciilifeform classic teletype was 2x1trit [07:00]
mircea_popescu jurov: instead of -----START/END OF WHATEVER------ use dedicated uncode chars <<< ftr i hate this idea. [07:00]
ben_vulpes (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.) << gripping hand? [07:00]
mircea_popescu stop making special characters yo. it doesn't scale. [07:01]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: they used some telepathic voodoo [07:01]
decimation asciilifeform: you know what the 'third' charcter was used for? [07:01]
mircea_popescu in point of fact, fucking in 3some with me there IS the only really fun thing [07:01]
ben_vulpes tbf i forget the nuances [07:01]
mircea_popescu fortunately, i don't scale. [07:01]
decimation parsing blocks of data... [07:01]
decimation delimiting blocks of data I should say [07:01]
mircea_popescu << this website tried to hump my leg. [07:02]
Duffer1 asciilifeform xenogenesis trilogy? [07:03]
asciilifeform Duffer1: aha [07:03]
ben_vulpes dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django << so much to this [07:03]
ben_vulpes undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js << RECANT [07:03]
mircea_popescu djanga lol. [07:03]
mircea_popescu like ganja for dyslexics [07:04]
decimation I've tried using some of those python 'frameworks' [07:04]
decimation ends up in the garbage [07:04]
decimation there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody [07:04]
asciilifeform decimation: 3^3 == 27, can now type. [07:04]
decimation asciilifeform: you are implying you can encode the entire alphabet evenly [07:05]
mircea_popescu there's something about trying to make one library to rule them all that attracts a certain kind of busybody << word. this is EXACTLY the dynamic involved. [07:05]
* asciilifeform can't picture 'django' without picturing the tarantino film [07:05]
mircea_popescu psychologically immature fucktards trying to protect themselves from their own insecurity with the world at large. [07:05]
mircea_popescu BUT at least back when they were making django they weren't making systemd [07:05]
ben_vulpes * asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS [07:06]
ben_vulpes > non retarded object system [07:06]
ben_vulpes > common lisp [07:06]
* asciilifeform invites anyone, anywhere, to make this statement false [07:06]
ben_vulpes > not sure if trolled [07:06]
asciilifeform entirely serious. [07:06]
ben_vulpes there's a non retarded object system? [07:06]
asciilifeform if i can't meta-object, it's retarded [07:06]
asciilifeform and, so far, there's precisely one - where can. [07:06]
ben_vulpes meta object? [07:07]
ben_vulpes lol 2 lines down [07:07]
decimation asciilifeform: on a teletype it's easy to send ternary, just add another symbol [07:07]
asciilifeform !s kiczales [07:07]
assbot 0 results for 'kiczales' : [07:07]
decimation traditionally they were 2-tone fsk, add another tone [07:07]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes see, parsing is not as good as compiling. [07:07]
asciilifeform !s metaobject [07:07]
assbot 0 results for 'metaobject' : [07:07]
asciilifeform wtf [07:07]
mircea_popescu come back tomorrow ? [07:07]
ben_vulpes search is a day slow [07:07]
ben_vulpes interpreting beats compiling again [07:07]
* nubbins` has quit (Quit: Quit) [07:08]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: interpreting << my cl system has no interpreter at all. [07:08]
mircea_popescu nubsy quits too much. why are canadians such quitters ? [07:08]
ben_vulpes i kid, i kid. [07:08]
ben_vulpes major bender or something. << unlike our regular minor benders [07:09]
mircea_popescu decimation: why would anyone think it would be a good idea to escape chars below 7 bits? << gpg escapes the dash because it uses a dash-cvomposite as a special char. [07:09]
decimation yeah, I see the bind they were in [07:09]
ben_vulpes cvomposite - is that a cvasi composite?! [07:09]
decimation need to send 7-bit ascii to denote limit [07:09]
mircea_popescu lol [07:10]
mircea_popescu cvoopositor. [07:10]
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ben_vulpes CvLOS [07:10]
decimation still, there are plenty of control characters they could have used [07:10]
decimation like 0x02 [07:10]
asciilifeform decimation: nope. [07:10]
decimation why not? [07:11]
asciilifeform decimation: try it on your terminal / cut&paste system / www turdamatic [07:11]
ben_vulpes the GIL is good << aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah [07:11]
asciilifeform ... email gizmo, bidet. [07:11]
mircea_popescu nah, they get wiped everywhere [07:11]
* joecool has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) [07:11]
asciilifeform ^ [07:11]
decimation yeah that's enraging [07:11]
mircea_popescu you can't even rely on /n staying put [07:11]
mircea_popescu constantly s/
// etc
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall rng model 1 test ? [07:11]
mircea_popescu yeah lol. it even got us. [07:11]
decimation here's 32 control characters that you can't use. [07:11]
* asciilifeform digs for link [07:12]
asciilifeform fscking retardatrons drop chars silently [07:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what'd you have them do, replace it with Q ? [07:12]
ben_vulpes yes, still for sale << fucking rob him already [07:12]
ben_vulpes if its so damn valuable [07:12]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform it occurs to me... since it can only be picked up in person, you should trade it for sex. [07:13]
asciilifeform l0l [07:13]
decimation so I guess the alternative is to base64 encode the patches? [07:17]
asciilifeform retch [07:17]
ben_vulpes recoleta* << and where for the fleeing usian pauper? [07:17]
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mircea_popescu ben_vulpes chacarrita ? [07:17]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform better idea : base-x encode, x = version number. [07:18]
ben_vulpes i liked belgrano, seemed modest. [07:18]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes about the same place. [07:19]
decimation why not use ITA2 [07:20]
decimation if we want to be backwards compatible, might as well go back to 1920's era teletype machines [07:21]
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ben_vulpes anyways [07:22]
ben_vulpes did anyone get in touch with bluematt? [07:22]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes who'd go over you to do it ? an' why ? [07:23]
ben_vulpes well put that way [07:23]
* FabianB has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) [07:24]
ben_vulpes ;;gpginfo bluematt [07:24]
gribble Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command. [07:24]
ben_vulpes ;;seen bluematt [07:24]
gribble I have not seen bluematt. [07:24]
decimation ben_vulpes: is the latest patch still yours? I haven't seen mention of others [07:25]
ben_vulpes decimation: calling that a patch is charitable - more an excision [07:26]
ben_vulpes and i've no idea if it's the most recent - there's no patch tracking tooling in place [07:27]
decimation no worries. I find the stripped-down distribution much easier to study [07:28]
ben_vulpes i'm studying the regtest phenomena of 0.8.whatever [07:29]
ben_vulpes it's glued in with the glass of the chainparams class [07:29]
ben_vulpes my rage is indescribeable [07:30]
ben_vulpes now not only must i study testnet but also this regtest thing [07:31]
ben_vulpes and, by proxy, chainparams. [07:31]
ben_vulpes it's not *so* bad, clearly. [07:31]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu would have that by the act of complaining i bring down more cpp upon my own back [07:31]
decimation what's regtest do? [07:34]
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ben_vulpes chain generation off network. [07:34]
ben_vulpes "regression testing" [07:34]
decimation heh [07:35]
ben_vulpes if you dig into chainparams and main.cpp (iirc) you'll find such joys as the "stop generating a chain after 1 block is found so that...reasons" [07:35]
decimation lol [07:35]
ben_vulpes the thing isn't actually all that impossible to reason about [07:35]
decimation so is 0.5.3 incompatible with the existing testnet? [07:36]
ben_vulpes just - find all the places in which there's a testnet mention and try to figure out how to implement an off-network chain [07:36]
ben_vulpes obviously the answer is a class with state safely segregated within it [07:36]
ben_vulpes decimation: have not yet tested, do not think that is the case. [07:36]
ben_vulpes well, logged up [07:39]
* CheckDavid has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [07:39]
ben_vulpes i'll mail matt tomorrow [07:40]
ben_vulpes [07:40]
ben_vulpes AT ALL OF HIS EMAILS [07:40]
mircea_popescu my rage is indescribeable <<< i have an intuition. [07:47]
mircea_popescu lol [07:48]
mircea_popescu speaking of which, is charter signed and deed'd yet ? [07:48]
mircea_popescu ahaha these are great! [07:53]
hanbot :D [07:55]
mircea_popescu bwahhah oh that pot. win. [07:55]
mircea_popescu "Feces are almost entirely deceased gut bacteria and water. I massacred my gut bacteria the day before by consuming a DIY Soylent version with no fiber and taking 500mg of Rifaximin, an antibiotic with poor bioavailability, meaning it stays in your gut and kills bacteria. Soylent’s microbiome consultant advised that this is a terrible idea so I do not recommend it. However, it worked. Throughout the challenge I did n [07:57]
mircea_popescu ot defecate." [07:57]
mircea_popescu im not entirely sure why this sort of idiot is being maintained on artificial life support. [07:57]
mircea_popescu usg, you whore of bezzleatron, you got some 'splainin to do. [07:57]
mircea_popescu "In lieu of showering I sprayed myself with AOBiome’s custom skin bacteria blend. Body odor is caused by the emissions of proliferating skin bacteria, as unique as a fingerprint. The Nitrosomonas eutropha taking over my skin now metabolizes ammonia into odorless nitrite and nitric oxide. Success!" [07:58]
* asciilifeform channels BingoBoingo to suggest humane ballistic pill for sufferer described above [07:58]
thestringpuller Who the fuck eats Soylent with no fiber in it? [07:59]
mircea_popescu this idiot. [07:59]
thestringpuller Jesus these idiots who don't know how to feed themselves are starting to just baffle me. [07:59]
hanbot i don't mind idiots experimenting on themselves, but the access to podium has gotta go. [08:00]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ? [08:00]
* petahash ( has joined #bitcoin-assets [08:01]
mircea_popescu !up petahash [08:01]
-assbot- You voiced petahash for 30 minutes. [08:01]
* assbot gives voice to petahash [08:01]
asciilifeform idiots experimenting on themselves << we all experiment on selves. [08:01]
asciilifeform writing about it - another matter [08:01]
asciilifeform e.g., [08:02]
assbot Logged on 10-09-2014 00:36:11; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: used own replica of old soviet mask, anode on eyelids, cathode on occiput [08:02]
mircea_popescu this is not experimenting. [08:02]
mircea_popescu experimenting is still a term of art. [08:02]
undata mircea_popescu: germs are dirty; obviously he's as clean as possible [08:02]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: writing about it - another matter << reminds of the people who take lots of psychedelic drugs and put the doses, timeline, and effects in a journal. [08:03]
mircea_popescu as stupid as possible, granted. once that is granted, nothing else can further be achieved. he can't be anything "as much as possible" hence. [08:03]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: alex shulgin ? [08:03]
* undata is waiting for the inevitable early deaths of the soylent believers [08:04]
mircea_popescu eh, the curse of technology. nobody fucking dies for being stupid anymore. [08:05]
undata << doesn't he have a bit of a weird flush to him? [08:05]
asciilifeform nope, the death is on instalment plan. [08:05]
BingoBoingo Dude's colon is going to have more yeast than a brewery [08:06]
undata vice looked into their "factory" and found rats and mold [08:06]
* asciilifeform recalls reading of 'internal brewery' disease that leaves sufferer permanently pickled [08:06]
mircea_popescu waitwut ?! [08:07]
undata asciilifeform: yeah, causes you to be drunk, right? [08:07]
asciilifeform there's a non-zero natural output of EtOH [08:07]
undata [08:07]
asciilifeform there we go. [08:07]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Every now and then someone's digestive system has alcohol producing yeast become the dominant microflora [08:07]
asciilifeform year after year, i wait for a report of someone bottling this beer. [08:08]
mircea_popescu sounds kinda unhealthy [08:08]
asciilifeform it is inevitable. [08:08]
BingoBoingo Incredibly unhealthy [08:08]
* mircea_popescu comes from cattle country, is proud carrier of long-selected lactoguys [08:08]
undata asciilifeform: ha, the gut beer? *shudder* [08:08]
undata but if people will drink this... [08:09]
asciilifeform aha 'monkey coffee' [08:10]
asciilifeform well-known. [08:10]
asciilifeform does pediwikia have 'list of foods which are literally shit' ? [08:10]
undata I question anyone without an aversion to shit [08:10]
undata asciilifeform: almost certainly [08:10]
mircea_popescu undata women develop tolerance, you know. [08:11]
undata seems necessary [08:12]
undata I still question them [08:12]
undata reminds me of my twin sisters in diapers, cribs opposite each other in their room [08:13]
undata I come home from school and they've had a shit war, hurled it at each other [08:13]
BingoBoingo rifampicin seems like an exceedingly poor choice for a colonocaust [08:13]
undata I learned something about life that day. [08:13]
BingoBoingo Traditional used against C.Diff is normally Vancomycin [08:13]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i don't suspect the guy actually acts rationally. [08:14]
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BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: That was given when he decided to sacrifice taking healthy shits for "water" conservation. [08:15]
* asciilifeform read that piece, assumed this stunt was 'on a bet' or the like [08:15]
asciilifeform if anyone has similar bet in the future, [08:17]
asciilifeform [08:17]
assbot Logged on 18-06-2014 00:35:11; Mats_cd03: after 1 no pill a day for 4 days during a field exercise, i was literally full of shit [08:17]
asciilifeform ^ cheaper method. [08:17]
mircea_popescu unrelated, [08:18]
BingoBoingo The classes of bacteria intrisically unaffected by rifampicin includes many unpleasant members. It seems the biggest class though is enterobacteria... so named because they are often normal intestinal flora... [08:19]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'ilsa the she-wolf' ? [08:20]
mircea_popescu adam robertson shot. no idea who the chick is [08:20]
mircea_popescu < her. [08:20]
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undata weird nostrils [08:21]
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mircea_popescu << the latest in french coiffure. [08:22]
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pete_dushenski "Arthur Levitt, the longest-serving chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, is joining the advisory boards of two bitcoin-focused companies. As an adviser to Atlanta-based BitPay, a bitcoin payment processor, and Vaurum, a Palo Alto-based bitcoin exchange for institutional investors..." [08:28]
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pete_dushenski dear cazalla [08:30]
asciilifeform incidentally, is there any alternate hypothesis re: bitpay that does not involve it being a btc intake valve for usg's 'waterfall' dumpatron? [08:32]
BingoBoingo ;;later tell hanbot I submitted an answer to your comment que [08:33]
gribble The operation succeeded. [08:33]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform they didn't start as one. but anyway, either their cash runs out in a few months or it does not. [08:34]
mircea_popescu if it does not, the explanation available is exactly one. [08:34]
asciilifeform ^ [08:34]
mircea_popescu not like atlanta is crawling with rich, entrepreneurial-minded folks or anything. [08:34]
mircea_popescu Actually, what you really need is a platform that’s a community of communities. Ideally with cleverly designed software that can handle each community’s individual epistemology (something like Moldbug’s idea of ‘factional reputation’ [08:35]
mircea_popescu dude seriously ? "moldbug's idea of the wot" ? [08:35]
mircea_popescu i think the one thing i can stand least about usians is not directly their ignorance, but their bald faced, undisturbedly firm conviction that being a clueless git is a-okay. [08:36]
mircea_popescu "what do you mean the world didn't start a day before i was born ?!?!!?!?!?!" [08:36]
BingoBoingo sha256 of my guess on which trilema url hanbot wrote about 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08 [08:38]
BingoBoingo md4 for people with things to do, 1ca610d4844aed110d163cdc14b987fc [08:39]
mircea_popescu 86e9f3b06d8abfde4f1323725907a4c9ccb6017d7ec35250f63ba735b6edbd08 [08:39]
mircea_popescu yup, same guess. [08:39]
BingoBoingo K [08:40]
punkman if anyone feels like sweeping some deedbot tests [08:42]
mircea_popescu punkman see your pms, apparently ppl can't go from deeds to privkey ? [08:42]
punkman lies [08:44]
punkman bundle: BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ [08:46]
punkman sha256 of bundle: 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d [08:46]
mircea_popescu 0.0 [08:46]
punkman brainwallet from exponent [08:46]
punkman 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64 [08:46]
mircea_popescu punkman incidentally, why is "brainwallet" shoehorned in there ? [08:47]
punkman I dont use brainwallet, just trying to generate with diff tools [08:47]
punkman ^ matches just fine [08:47]
mircea_popescu how did you get 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d ? sha of the raw deed + a comma ? [08:49]
punkman no comma if single deed in bundle [08:49]
punkman just sha256 the BXZ... string [08:50]
punkman not sha256sum [08:50]
mircea_popescu uh ?! [08:50]
punkman errm dunno actually, does sha256sum add checksums? [08:51]
mircea_popescu [08:52]
assbot Logged on 28-10-2014 03:08:02; mircea_popescu: 1st shasum ik get 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 in any case. [08:52]
punkman echo -n BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | sha256sum == 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d [08:53]
mircea_popescu wait [08:53]
mircea_popescu you hash the bx? how you got tht ? [08:53]
punkman that is a deed hash, the "lite" bundle is all the deed hashes [08:54]
punkman if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed [08:54]
mircea_popescu so. you take the deed as is, and base58 it ? [08:55]
punkman anyway, README on the way [08:55]
mircea_popescu kk. [08:55]
mircea_popescu ima be back laters. [08:55]
adlai ben_vulpes | the GIL is good << pls [08:58]
assbot 0 results for 'from:adlai the GIL is good' - #bitcoin-assets search [08:58]
adlai no wonder i hate getting any sleep [08:59]
cazalla pete_dushenski, thestringpuller is on it [09:01]
punkman decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time? <- it happened a couple times during testing, hopefuly the lords will provide adequate space in the future. [09:01]
pete_dushenski cazalla nice :) [09:01]
punkman ;;isup [09:02]
gribble is down [09:02]
punkman scam! [09:02]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [18:06]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [18:06]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [18:06]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [18:06]
TomServo asciilifeform: This is only for wireless clients correct? Though, why wouldn't they also do the same to wired customers? [18:07]
asciilifeform wired << afaik they do. [18:07]
TomServo Seems the article only mentions phones and wireless.. unless I'm missing it. [18:07]
mircea_popescu cazalla << check that shit out. [18:08]
* #bitcoin-assets :Cannot send to channel [18:08]
asciilifeform wired also diddled, for at least some subscribers, according to rumour mill [18:08]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [18:08]
mircea_popescu cazalla << check that shit out. [18:08]
mod6 Hi all, ben_vulpes and I have a new revision for the foundation charter. [18:09]
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TomServo asciilifeform: *sings* What a wonderful woooorld... [18:10]
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mircea_popescu mod6 ben_vulpes "This charter establishes the existence of a virtual organization whose mission is to maintain the Bitcoin reference client." <<< maybe strike client from there ? [18:13]
mircea_popescu the bitcoin reference. it's a thing. [18:13]
punkman reference implementation perhaps [18:14]
mod6 ok, noted. [18:14]
mircea_popescu reference implementation also works [18:14]
mod6 i think it did say that at one point. i don't have my previous revisions handy atm. [18:14]
mircea_popescu anyway, looks pretty good! [18:14]
mod6 'reference implementation' [18:14]
mod6 ok good deal :) [18:15]
punkman ok, so I think current deedbot implementation would only look at the last signature in multisig message. How should it work ideally? [18:15]
mod6 it looks at both and enters in a row for each? [18:15]
mod6 s/both/all/ [18:15]
mod6 *shrug* [18:15]
mircea_popescu punkman that sounds fine actually. [18:16]
mod6 ok gotta run for a bit, will be back later to continue the work on getting this thing finished. [18:16]
punkman ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot [18:16]
punkman maybe I'll make it display the additional signatures somehow [18:16]
mircea_popescu why ? [18:16]
mod6 <+punkman> ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot << just put this in the wiki then so we'll know [18:17]
mircea_popescu and how do you deal with the case where string1+siga+string2+sigb ? [18:17]
mircea_popescu ("I like melons"signed:MP"He means lemons")signed:Freud [18:18]
punkman so both electrum and supybot crapped out in slightly weird way today, I'll try to get it back up by tomorrow [18:18]
punkman 1 day and 18 hours for the first run [18:19]
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* mircea_popescu is curious to hear details. [18:21]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'll do something-or-other for your foundation thing, so long as it doesn't involve actual work [18:22]
mircea_popescu statement of redundancy department :D [18:23]
asciilifeform expert elephant delivery available also! [18:24]
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asciilifeform [18:34]
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undata asciilifeform: have you documented your rng? [18:56]
asciilifeform undata: the only formally published aspect so far is a set of high-res photos. but it, plus everything i have said about rng, is ten times more than enough to recreate it for a determined and impatient student. [18:58]
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mircea_popescu !up WolfGoethe [18:58]
-assbot- You voiced WolfGoethe for 30 minutes. [18:58]
* assbot gives voice to WolfGoethe [18:58]
asciilifeform undata: in case this was not clear, complete design documents -and- rationales will be published (including in dead-tree form). [18:58]
mircea_popescu undata plus he's on the hook to document it once it actually gets made. [18:59]
mircea_popescu shit i gotta type faster. [18:59]
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asciilifeform i expect that the truly serious folks won't even touch my hardware, but recreate it from spec... [19:00]
punkman asciilifeform: maybe someone will come up with through-hole component version? [19:01]
punkman I'd bake a batch [19:02]
undata asciilifeform: great! we await your teachings. [19:02]
jurov punkman do it with 99% fine zamak cover bearing "First Edition" label [19:02]
asciilifeform punkman: it'd be all-throughhole now if the components were actually available in that package. [19:03]
mircea_popescu lol fine zamak cover. why so mean [19:03]
punkman was partlist published in reports? [19:03]
asciilifeform punkman: for rng - yes! you can probably build it now. [19:03]
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mircea_popescu partlist, quality of results summary, all sorts of things. [19:06]
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asciilifeform gotta love the cribbing f-students - 'onerng' etc. [19:07]
asciilifeform << for those who slept [19:08]
assbot Logged on 28-10-2014 12:47:11; asciilifeform: undata: << best lulz! this calls for a mini-review. [19:08]
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asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, others involved with deturdification - unless you prefer emacs for this, see tools like 'xxdiff' for illuminated patches. [19:12]
mircea_popescu didja write teh minireview ? [19:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see log below linked line. [19:13]
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mircea_popescu shit listen, i'm not yet done with the day's log, gotta read it in order or else errors. [19:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no reason to hurry. [19:14]
mircea_popescu vita brevis! [19:14]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well, that - yes. [19:15]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but for sapper who hurries - brevis-er. [19:16]
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mircea_popescu unrelated. [19:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others: << related [19:21]
asciilifeform ^ vote of confidence [19:22]
punkman hah [19:22]
punkman oh thought you were signing rm utility, never mind [19:23]
asciilifeform lolno, ben_vulpes patch [19:24]
mircea_popescu bitcoin finally reached in 2014 the place where it would have been in 2009 had satoshi been able to find and motivate people rather than find himself desperately shooting into the public forum. [19:26]
mircea_popescu a better example of the problem of resource allocation can never be devised. [19:27]
mircea_popescu five fucking years and a horde of jackals, all because there isn't nor apparently can there be a god out there to whom you pray and who gives orders adequately. [19:27]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu << i must point out that the turd's merely been chucked onto the turdlathe. no one as of yet solved anything. [19:27]
mircea_popescu hence 2009. [19:28]
* assbot removes voice from WolfGoethe [19:28]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla ^ see, vex can stfu. [19:29]
mircea_popescu anyway, a better demolition of the myth of "open source" and wikidiotarianism could also hardly be devised [19:30]
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bounce apparently there wasn't a people person around who could find and organise the people to cook up bitcoin; needed a lone engineer to lay the ground work. [19:34]
mircea_popescu i think it's deeper than that. i doubt the job was possible at all, without an outright onslaught from metaphysics. [19:34]
mircea_popescu two legions of choir angels and a third column of succubi might have sufficed, then. [19:35]
punkman maybe it was 3 wizards and a code monkey, who's to know? [19:35]
asciilifeform eh, we do not yet know what suffices. because 'it' has not yet happened. [19:36]
bounce you shoulda been there and called up the heaven+hell agency and order the right actors for this show, eh [19:36]
mircea_popescu ^ stan's. [19:37]
mircea_popescu bounce i had nfi idea, at the time, and definitely would have been horrible for the role. [19:37]
mircea_popescu that's the problem here, you need some experience to be able to think. [19:38]
punkman !search bitc [19:38]
assbot 19 results for 'bitc' : [19:38]
bounce what's this now? [19:38]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu << would like to be optimistic, but we will soon see who remains motivated once the turdlathe demands actual brain cycles. right now it's target practice against paper 'opponents.' [19:44]
mircea_popescu mebbe. [19:44]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in the sense that zapping dead ifdef's is not especially arduous. [19:45]
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mircea_popescu mebbe. [19:45]
mircea_popescu i shall say mebbe again to you, if you do not appease me! [19:46]
* punkman is willing to work on specification at some point [19:46]
ben_vulpes reference client was a total fat-finger on my part [19:48]
ben_vulpes reference impl is correct language [19:49]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: sapper trains with... [19:49]
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mircea_popescu dynamite dildoes ? [19:51]
mircea_popescu "failure is a pleasure" brand [19:51]
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* mircea_popescu signs off on that orlov piece being total idiocy. [19:55]
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mircea_popescu Naphex: i'm gonna start banning accunetix scans soon. its incredible how many "security researches" and hax0rs just try and run it all day << like five hundred times in a row, too. because who knows, maybe it changed ? [19:56]
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Naphex mircea_popescu: aye, or just lots of monkeys running around shooting accunetix trying to get bug rewards lol [19:57]
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mircea_popescu kinda a good reason to not explicitly / publicisedly offer rewards. [19:57]
mircea_popescu there's about a quarter billion idiots kept alive against nature by various welfarist governments' welfare programs, who exist like shitworms, everything is either a food dispenser or nothing to them. [19:58]
mircea_popescu so they keep suckling on doorknobs, shit like that. [19:58]
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Naphex mircea_popescu: aye. oh well i just firewall drop them after 10 accunetix hits [19:58]
Naphex some even change ip [19:59]
Naphex i mean.. [19:59]
mircea_popescu next thing you know you gotta wear gloves because the socialist idots have made an endless supply of doorknob droolers. [19:59]
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mircea_popescu ;;later tell pete_dushenski apparently the chaos people loved your blog. [19:59]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:59]
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mircea_popescu undata: ^ thoughts, criticism? << check it out, it's got the metal shield like asciilifeform's! [20:02]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: read my turdreview [20:02]
mircea_popescu anyway, i'm shooting the guy an email [20:03]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lol! can't help but wonder what he'd answer. [20:04]
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kakobrekla my bet : he wont [20:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu, ben_vulpse, others: [20:06]
mircea_popescu kakobrekla what odds you giving on that ? [20:06]
asciilifeform ^ build, not live-fire tested yet [20:06]
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kakobrekla ;;isup [20:06]
B0g4r7 Belsage ben_vulpes berndj bettycla1p bgp bgupta BigBitz BingoBoingo bitspill_ blast Blazedout419 bounce brayden [20:06]
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gribble is up [20:06]
kakobrekla oh damn. [20:07]
mircea_popescu jurov you gotta make that mailman thing baby, otherwise " mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others" will become a header here. [20:07]
TomServo mircea_popescu: orlov piece being total idiocy << the most recent guest authored piece? [20:07]
mircea_popescu TomServo whatever asciilifeform linked earlier. something with "total base acreage", as fucking if. [20:07]
mircea_popescu next he can make a review of datacenters based on total board / cpu surface o.O [20:07]
mircea_popescu clearly, it has been stagnating for 50 years. [20:07]
TomServo ahaha, yes. What's your take then, as far as timeline goes? [20:08]
jurov mircea_popescu: sigh... you may note my occassional rant related to it [20:08]
mircea_popescu no i only note things i like. [20:08]
jurov plus, whole idea has arisen at friday, while i had busy weekend [20:08]
mircea_popescu TomServo you ever played civ ? [20:09]
TomServo mircea_popescu: Long ways back, yes. [20:09]
mircea_popescu jurov anything good ? pics of hot twinks coming ? [20:09]
jurov did not take photos, sry [20:09]
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mircea_popescu TomServo you ever encountered that situation where you had a smaller island, but pushed tech, surrounded yourself with fortified mech infantry and railroaded all the firlds back when the idiots around still klonked each other with knights [20:09]
mircea_popescu but then 1000 years later they got their own armors and well... game over ? [20:10]
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mircea_popescu the us is going against a twin bottleneck, both social and technological. the us born boys of today are weak, the us tech of today is dull, no more edge. like that, it can only be a brothel. [20:10]
mircea_popescu jurov you know, photos can be half the fun. [20:11]
* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [20:15]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: || || || [20:15]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [20:15]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [20:15]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [20:15]
diametric [20:16]
asciilifeform ^ mega-lulz! [20:16]
mircea_popescu lol! [20:17]
mircea_popescu i wonder if this one was ever exploited. [20:17]
Naphex [20:18]
mircea_popescu what was that even ? [20:19]
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mircea_popescu assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum << that made precisely no sense. wut ?! [20:20]
rithm justcoin failed to read the specs on ripple [20:20]
punkman question is can I redirect random HTTP url to ftp:// when I detect wget [20:20]
asciilifeform 'If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit!' [20:21]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ? <<< ahahah wut. [20:21]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: look at it. there it is. [20:21]
mircea_popescu and 'AP3105' , kay, amateur hour. [20:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: kitchen toilet. [20:22]
mircea_popescu but... "it should be ok for most usecases". [20:22]
mircea_popescu which is how you'll get kiled in the marketplace. if the market is 100 units, and 90 units are needed to support a well made unit, and 90 buyers could be satisfied by a shitty unit, [20:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i posted enough re: rng that any kid could bloody well copy it. but no, must have 'improvements.' [20:22]
mircea_popescu if the shitty unit makes it to market first then the well made unit is never happening. [20:22]
mircea_popescu so get on with it! [20:22]
mircea_popescu jurov he's trying to put a dent in his hosting bills ? [20:23]
punkman jurov, to apply linked exploit [20:23]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: against the f-students, we have pills. but it would be hasty to administer the pills as of yet. [20:24]
mircea_popescu if i have to pass another xmas w/o roast beast and cardano i'll paint you blue. [20:25]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: might have to give you one of mine. [20:27]
asciilifeform gentlement: patch review pleeze ? [20:27]
mircea_popescu just get on with it!11 exlamation points [20:27]
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mircea_popescu jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes << where are you adding the space ? [20:29]
jurov in the end of STATJSON [20:30]
jurov read the gpg quirks i linked, it's eye opening [20:30]
mircea_popescu uh you telling me gpg takes "STATJSON" and "STATJSON " as validly signed by the same signature ? [20:31]
jurov lol 11 exlamation points.. yknow, asciilifeform is still gathering blood, sweat, bile, etc. to put into cardano software [20:31]
asciilifeform jurov: ichor. [20:32]
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mircea_popescu jurov yeah, stat/statjson are not protected against replay. this, on the principle that the response being encoded anyway, the attacker needs the key to do anything useful. [20:50]
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asciilifeform the attacker needs the key to do anything useful << unless i misunderstand, enemy can do blind replay? [20:51]
mircea_popescu 14:16:06 mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down << umm no they don't ? [20:51]
kakobrekla links like to whatever people link to. [20:52]
mircea_popescu oh, he means inside the lines [20:52]
kakobrekla s/like/link [20:52]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, and get a blob coded to the owner's key, and now we know someone tried. [20:52]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: possibly he meant 'bash' etc. [20:52]
kakobrekla hm? [20:52]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: links [20:52]
kakobrekla there are log links in bash? [20:52]
asciilifeform kakobrekla: bash link in log [20:53]
kakobrekla ah [20:53]
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jurov punkman, kakobrekla: how do you get all the public keys from gribble? [21:05]
jurov in assbot L1/L2 [21:05]
* kakobrekla doesnt. [21:05]
punkman I had it download the db backups every 6 hours [21:06]
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BingoBoingo [21:08]
mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc. <<< used to be how mpex did ipo contracts, but it sucks. [21:10]
mircea_popescu now everyone signs a copy. [21:10]
mircea_popescu << not bad this [21:13]
mircea_popescu apparently websites can be useful even without web2.0 rounded corners javascript "design" bs. [21:14]
mircea_popescu actually, one should sometime do a count. [21:14]
Naphex so wait [21:15]
Naphex if justcoin is going down [21:15]
Naphex why is it still trading? [21:15]
mircea_popescu wow log finished. feels so good... [21:16]
mircea_popescu Naphex doesn't make any sense does it. [21:16]
asciilifeform gentlemen: << includes previous [21:16]
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BingoBoingo Naphex: Insufficient thought disorder? Maybe they hope late panic trades might be favorable to their own orders? [21:20]
Naphex why would anyone give a shit to trade on a burning down closing exchange [21:21]
Naphex just get your funds out and move out [21:21]
mircea_popescu maybe you've not met the bitcoin crowd yet ? [21:22]
Naphex some fruad suspected [21:22]
Naphex related to some altcoin ripple run shit on your server hack [21:22]
asciilifeform no more turdmeister broadcast receiver! [21:25]
Naphex turdmeister broadcast receiver? [21:25]
asciilifeform !s nixing alert [21:26]
assbot 1 results for 'nixing alert' : [21:26]
Naphex asciilifeform: so that's what alert disabled? [21:28]
asciilifeform no reason at all why a true bitcoind ought to take direct orders from the turdation... [21:29]
mircea_popescu re the "how to start your own country" thing, the opening model is so fucking braindamaged it curls my hairs. [21:29]
mircea_popescu is there anything actually intelligent in here or am i throwing it away ? [21:29]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: strauss is a (now very old) man who was involved with some of the '70s derpistans (actual attempts at island 'nations' by american jokers). worth reading if only for zoological purposes. [21:30]
mircea_popescu no but seriously, groups split off at that point when carrying the food (where ? they were fucking nomadic anyway) cost as much energy as the food provided ? [21:31]
mircea_popescu the sexual castration of us puritans is making them stupid i swear. [21:31]
mircea_popescu individuation is a sexual, not an economical phenomenon. [21:31]
mircea_popescu xiando hey, help me out here, what's that ancient chinese tale of the young man who found a young woman, and they fell in love, and they wished to be alone in the world ? so they suddenly were! and then wished for a cook, and suddely a cook appeared, and then kept wishing and soon enough were back at home ? [21:32]
asciilifeform strauss has 'zoological' data not available elsewhere, afaik. [21:32]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah, but my fear is, how much can be trusted in the "data" of someone so fundamentally confused. can one who can't count keep a useful count of anything ? [21:34]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: next you'll be asking about herodotus [21:34]
Naphex asciilifeform: so did you remove the fork alerts as well or just the alert-keying system? [21:34]
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mircea_popescu i guess since im reading this under protest im gonna adnotate it. [21:34]
asciilifeform Naphex: keyed. -- and, you know, you can read the fscking code. [21:36]
asciilifeform not rocket surgery! [21:36]
Naphex asciilifeform: didn't quite pick up that turdmeister alert snip was a bitcoin patch to check it:) [21:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform he has a point tho. what happens if there's a fork ? [21:37]
asciilifeform dear glubb, read it [21:38]
Naphex i kept the alert system, don't have much problem with it and can easily be disabaled. [21:38]
Naphex but thats what i want for my core servers really. don't run walleting software on them [21:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform to reprhrase. "what should happen, if there's a fork" [21:38]
Naphex but i do want them to shut down in many cases and prevent any integrity breaches [21:39]
Naphex the chain will still be there [21:39]
Naphex for me to restart [21:39]
mircea_popescu Naphex the problem with this approach is that well, false security. [21:39]
Naphex how is it false security? [21:40]
Naphex it's not false security [21:40]
Naphex you run the route nodes to sync the data and keep a chain [21:40]
mircea_popescu well, not in itself, but if you end up relying on it then yeah [21:40]
Naphex you then run secondary nodes with spv to ease that data and make it more usefull [21:41]
Naphex if anything corrupts the main chain, the spv will pick it up [21:41]
mircea_popescu so if you run all this why'd you want random idiot to turn off your whole infrastructure whenever ? [21:41]
Naphex the main chain(fed from the trusted nodes) [21:41]
Naphex mircea_popescu: the nodes are all synced, the only thing he turns off is the ability to receive new transactions [21:41]
Naphex and thats pretty short, i can recompile it and restart it with alerts disabled in under 10mins [21:42]
mircea_popescu nevertheless. [21:42]
mircea_popescu we're discussing different things here. [21:42]
Naphex so thats not a huge downtime, alerts get notified and keyd so email all the rest [21:42]
asciilifeform ability to receive new transactions << and gavin should have the nuclear button for this why? [21:42]
Naphex temporary, be right back [21:42]
mircea_popescu it's unsanitary. that damned key is probably how he got his asshole extended in the first place. [21:42]
asciilifeform unsanitary << exactly. and, thus far, we are - sanitars. [21:44]
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jurov [21:47]
mircea_popescu lol [21:49]
mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ^ qntra ? [21:49]
BingoBoingo I'll look at it [21:49]
asciilifeform anyone willing to review patches - read, ponder, sign. jurov can dump it all in turdatron later. [21:50]
asciilifeform also, am i the only one here with a pair of shears? get snipping. [21:51]
asciilifeform plenty of unambiguous garbage left. [21:51]
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nubbins` [22:06]
assbot Logged on 28-10-2014 11:41:26; punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process [22:06]
nubbins` ^ CRLF line endings o.O [22:07]
nubbins` unless we've all suddenly decided to nominate Windows as the OS of choice,
should not be within a thousand feet of this thing :D
punkman it doesn't discriminate, whatever you feed it [22:08]
nubbins` it should replace
punkman original genesis deed had LF, dunno when they got in there, probably some text editor [22:09]
nubbins` otherwise how the fuck is anyone using anything other than Windows going to be able to verify deeds? [22:09]
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punkman base64 was there for a reason [22:09]
punkman check out the one liner [22:09]
nubbins` one liner? [22:10]
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asciilifeform which one of the chairmen runs winblows? fess up [22:11]
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nubbins` heh [22:12]
nubbins` SPEAK NOW [22:12]
nubbins` but srsly,
going forward
nubbins` do a regex replace, w/e, don't care [22:12]
nubbins` must be done [22:12]
punkman not rly [22:13]
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nubbins` yes rly [22:13]
nubbins` it's a line of code [22:13]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: scissors? no. time today? perhaps. [22:14]
nubbins` otherwise you're essentially throwing up a huge "FUCK YOU" to all of us not using winblows [22:14]
asciilifeform bad enough that satoshi used (or convincingly pretended to use) it. i will not be signing anything of substance authored by a winblows user. cannot presume that he has sole control of his key. [22:14]
asciilifeform if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why. [22:16]
nubbins` imagine every time you wanted to verify a deed, having to manually swap
nubbins` or having to check both versions because the deed could be using either [22:16]
nubbins` nightmare [22:16]
mod6 windows? not me. i've done all my editing in vim [22:16]
mod6 i don't own or use a single windows machine, and proud to have not for /years/ [22:16]
nubbins` mod6 HIGH FIVE [22:16]
mod6 ^5 [22:16]
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chetty I like the idea you know someone is using a potential bad key because ot that problem [22:19]
asciilifeform known users of kitchen toilets. [22:19]
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asciilifeform quite elementary. [22:20]
chetty asciilifeform, not the most elegant way of putting it but you make a point [22:20]
ben_vulpes what precisely had
* ben_vulpes runs macos - admitted turd, but not windows [22:21]
mike_c what about /deed/asldkfjalsdkfgj/RAW/ that has raw message. [22:23]
mike_c and you can wget and not worry about line endings [22:23]
asciilifeform this thead is about things that must not be born, regardless of how easily killed. [22:24]
asciilifeform problems of provenance. [22:24]
asciilifeform !s monolith [22:24]
assbot 12 results for 'monolith' : [22:24]
mike_c whether or not you trust something signed by a windows user has little to do with deedbot. [22:25]
jurov ben_vulpes: wanna keys from the bucket? to publish the charter and provisional list of patches [22:25]
mike_c having deedbot muck up the message it is given seems retarded. [22:25]
asciilifeform or, more pertinently, it does not matter that a cockroach is easy to crush. you don't want ten, nine, or one - in kitchen [22:25]
jurov unless you unanimously decided it will go elsewhere [22:25]
ben_vulpes jurov: sorry, don't understand the question [22:25]
punkman any interest in bot that announces key expiries and revocations in channel? [22:26]
mike_c yeah, ok, so we won't run deedbot on windows. what does this have to do with it mucking up messages it is given? [22:26]
nubbins` ben_vulpes genesis deed has [22:26]
ben_vulpes ho ho ho [22:26]
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ben_vulpes not a chair problem tho [22:26]
ben_vulpes ? [22:26]
asciilifeform eh i might have stepped in wrong thread. but even so, where does cr-lf come from if no winblows in the loop? [22:27]
nubbins` ben_vulpes someone's chair ;) [22:27]
mike_c from the person submitting the deed is my understanding. [22:27]
nubbins` asciilifeform ask punkman i guess [22:27]
nubbins` i assumed he was using windows [22:27]
punkman genesis deed not signed on windows [22:27]
jurov ben_vulpes: to upload files and publish then to web [22:27]
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punkman the house does have some windows though [22:28]
nubbins` however it happened, there's [22:28]
ben_vulpes oh! [22:28]
nubbins` and it would be extremely important to convert all
when publishing deeds.
ben_vulpes yes sure that would be useful indeed. [22:28]
mike_c no, it wouldn't.. [22:28]
nubbins` it would be extremely convenient for non-windows users [22:28]
nubbins` same thing, n'est pas? ;D [22:29]
mike_c to have a list of ways the deed that deedbot is given is modified before publishing? [22:29]
mike_c this is silly. [22:29]
mike_c it shouldn't fuck with the message at all. [22:29]
nubbins` silly is not being able to verify deeds because they use retarded EOL [22:29]
punkman it just pushes bytes around indeed [22:29]
mike_c so don't copy/paste. [22:29]
nubbins` how the fuck else am i gonna verify, transcribe by hand? [22:30]
mike_c i just said. have /deed/adsfas/RAW/ [22:30]
ben_vulpes just reject crlf [22:30]
mike_c surely you have wget on ur l33t box. [22:30]
punkman curl -s | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?= [22:30]
punkman but yes some raw url will be added [22:30]
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xanthyos if i donate to startcoin i can get a free sterlingcoin cryptocurrency card! [22:36]
xanthyos Sterlingcoin is The Cryptocurrency of the UK & British Isles. << didn't realize btc was geographically limited [22:37]
mircea_popescu ^ CRLF line endings o.O <<< [22:38]
mircea_popescu it should replace
<< it's cant, gpg sig'd
punkman actually gpg doesn't care [22:39]
mircea_popescu o yes it does. [22:39]
punkman no genesis deed was LF, but deedbot got CRLF version and it passed [22:39]
mircea_popescu try feeding a
blob to a linux version
punkman it's in the manual, pretty sure [22:40]
mircea_popescu if any of you think this is unreasonable, please say why. << it's a wot thing. does not matter one rat's ass what anyone thinks of it as long as you got a policy you thought out and are sticking to. [22:40]
mircea_popescu and you can wget and not worry about line endings << somebody's not read the log :D [22:41]
asciilifeform sticking to it << i will. but curious whether it makes sense to the rest of you. [22:41]
nubbins` :S [22:42]
mircea_popescu i can see it. [22:42]
jurov o yes it does.<< same thing as spaces in the end of lines, you did not get it [22:42]
jurov line endings do not go into sig [22:42]
jurov unless –not-dash-escaped option [22:42]
asciilifeform option << which b0rks other things [22:43]
mircea_popescu jurov what i meant on this instance was that pasting dos text in linux gpg results in double line breaks and an unprocessable inpuit. [22:43]
punkman openpgp spec says normalize to CRLF I think [22:43]
mircea_popescu generally tho, the concept of "line" should not exist for gpg. [22:43]
asciilifeform we're paying and paying for the glass tty era, yes. [22:44]
punkman [22:44]
punkman "The signature is calculated over the text data with its line endings converted to ." [22:44]
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nubbins` gross [22:49]
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mircea_popescu more reasons to reimplement pgp [22:51]
asciilifeform as if we ever were short on reasons! [22:51]
nubbins` "standard CRLF line endings" [22:53]
nubbins` who the fuck wrote this [22:53]
punkman "Also, any trailing whitespace -- spaces (0x20) and tabs (0x09) -- at the end of any line is removed when the cleartext signature is generated." [22:53]
punkman so there's a lot of ways to make dupe deeds [22:54]
asciilifeform who the fuck wrote this << lost souls [22:54]
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mircea_popescu nubbins` it's the "standard" tho. [22:55]
mircea_popescu it stays with gpg in about the same reason bitcoin stands with the derpitude coming out of the scamdation. [22:55]
punkman " As with binary signatures on text documents, a cleartext signature is calculated on the text using canonical line endings." << wtf does this mean [22:55]
asciilifeform this is the kind of thing that will die because it must, and because we have blasters. [22:55]
mircea_popescu nothing. [22:56]
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asciilifeform [22:56]
assbot Logged on 28-07-2014 19:19:31; asciilifeform: results - and from this comes strength; the fight now turns, from a draining, futile floundering - to a merry, wrathful clobbering of a dying vermin, who with us - men - has nothing whatsoever in common. But it all begins - with nonparticipation.' (Беркем аль Атоми, articles. translation mine.) [22:56]
chetty [22:59]
asciilifeform chetty: correlation/causation crapolade. [22:59]
asciilifeform !s grow taller [22:59]
assbot 3 results for 'grow taller' : [22:59]
chetty yeah but now you guys have another excuse [23:00]
chetty just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :) [23:00]
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BingoBoingo just like I found one that consuming chocolate is good for memory :) << No, people with better memory just remember chocolate === good [23:10]
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chetty what passes for science these days connects dots that don't even exist, but I got to admit sometimes the answers they come up with are fun [23:13]
mircea_popescu how about having sex with 21 chocolates ? [23:14]
chetty messy [23:15]
asciilifeform iirc, chocolate plays important role in the lives of zoophiliacs... [23:15]
mircea_popescu wut ?! [23:16]
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asciilifeform wut << bait [23:16]
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BingoBoingo << Purported SEC letter to [23:28]
mircea_popescu [23:28]
mircea_popescu not signed ? [23:28]
mircea_popescu link them to mine, tell them that's how it's done. [23:29]
BingoBoingo Found on reddit, so harder to tell if authentic. Fucking Amateurs! [23:30]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu reads books linearly, lol. choked on the alchemy, missed the chemistry. (2nd half of item.) [23:38]
mircea_popescu gimme an offset ? [23:38]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'case histories' pp. 51 [23:40]
mircea_popescu in other news, [23:40]
mircea_popescu ty. [23:40]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually, very little chemistry, it's really a history of 'alchemists' - if that weren't clear [23:43]
BingoBoingo So Jstor is now following the #bitcoin-assets lead [23:44]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform mkay, so i got as far as page 67. i fail to see why any of this drivel is either important or useful, and especially the conflation of "country" and "territory" seems idiotic. [23:56]
mircea_popescu this is no chemistry. [23:56]
* assbot gives voice to TheNewDeal [23:57]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: alchemy. whose fault is it that the entire field consisted of it. afaik. (any successful micro-sovereigns in 20th c? of the ab initio variety) [23:57]
mircea_popescu heh, i missed the important line ;/ [23:57]
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