Forum logs for 28 Dec 2017

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:

mircea_popescu:	aha :D	[00:48]
mircea_popescu:	in other rapetrucks, i watched die hard. the russians are germans back then the terrorists still terrorists. the "career woman" still very much homely gun moll, wink wink nudge nudge. the dumbass "technology" ie cameras on every wall more of a curio than anything, deemed eccentricly harmless (see also above discussion of parasitosis).	[01:12]
mircea_popescu:	to quote tlp, "half of america said hell ya, let's kick some ass and the other half rolled its eyes and was totally like don't you guys know we suck now ?"	[01:12]
mircea_popescu:	yet by comparison to the femprop the pantsuits are pouring out this decade, brainless "action" movies of the 90s are grandiloquent cinematic accomplishments.	[01:13]
BingoBoingo:	<asciilifeform> !~later tell BingoBoingo where was that hoster that'll host peculiarly small boxes , that you were using back in the day ? i have a buncha http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-19-dec-2017#2379493 that fit exactly those dimensions << I looked at "Mac Stadium" but ended up going with Joe's Datacenter before the payment portion of Joe's website went full NameCheap retard.	[07:46]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: they are widely sold as surplus today, about fiddybux ( naturally diskless )	[07:46]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: Perhaps you fill a 1U tray with them and pack it into your checked luggage? If you worry about their conenctivity it is very possible to negotiate them their own dedicated or asymmetrical line.	[07:48]
BingoBoingo:	<asciilifeform> BigTexasBingo: ever seen this photo : https://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/0/6/6/5346660.jpg ? << Not until now	[07:54]
BingoBoingo:	<mircea_popescu> incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too. << Aha, since the aggressing started and some trb nodes changed ver string my nodes have had an easier time staying at the tip	[07:56]
BingoBoingo:	So last night I returned from una cita con una chica to discover a concert on the roof of the hostel was winding down. While I rehydrated drinking copious agua buena other guests at the hostel consulted me for answers to "What's good in Montevideo"	[08:01]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: i am looking to set up a handful of trb nodez 1) small, 'disposable' boxen 2) for fiatolade 3) with decent , i.e. at least 100mb symmetric ea. 4) NOT all in same cage	[08:23]
BingoBoingo:	Ah	[08:24]
asciilifeform:	i'ma certainly patronize castle BingoBoingostein tho	[08:25]
asciilifeform:	but that dun solve whole item.	[08:25]
BingoBoingo:	https://www.macstadium.com/colo/#dcselect << Was a finalist I considered $35/month for small machine	[08:26]
asciilifeform:	nuffin there re noncrapple tho	[08:27]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759388 << see also lulthread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-24#1703064	[08:27]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 06:12 mircea_popescu: in other rapetrucks, i watched die hard. the russians are germans back then the terrorists still terrorists. the "career woman" still very much homely gun moll, wink wink nudge nudge. the dumbass "technology" ie cameras on every wall more of a curio than anything, deemed eccentricly harmless (see also above discussion of parasitosis).	[08:27]
a111:	Logged on 2017-08-24 17:24 asciilifeform: e.g. film 'diehard' ended up translated by one 'genius' to title 'умри тяжело'	[08:27]
BingoBoingo:	Probably wouldn't hurt to ask or dress up non-crapple box in aluminum case of dead crapple for moar heatsink	[08:28]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758896 << i have this vague memory that both phf and trinque were originally introduced in this sense by ben_vulpes whereas you were introduced similarily by hanbot. by comparison the pantsuit "evidently correct & only method" of herdemocracy has produced a whole lot of indiancandies and other self-choice delusionists.	[08:28]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-27 00:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758743 << this historically worked CONSIDERABLY better than 'let's throw the reddit toilet into reverse gear and see what crawls out of the pipe'	[08:28]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: aha!!	[08:29]
mircea_popescu:	so yes, the move to conscription is a matter of when, not of if.	[08:29]
mircea_popescu:	the drawback is that most nobles dun wanna upkeep their castles for some reason. i'm hoping it's mostly misunderstanding teh future in the benign sense of "really, didn't give this much thought"	[08:30]
asciilifeform:	no serfs, no castle, eh	[08:31]
mircea_popescu:	first the castle then the serfs!	[08:32]
mircea_popescu:	it's not a bit of fucking public works	[08:32]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759406 << guaranteed no-go. it's rather like trying to sew a squirrel into a rat skin and expect it to live happily as rat.	[08:33]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 13:28 BingoBoingo: Probably wouldn't hurt to ask or dress up non-crapple box in aluminum case of dead crapple for moar heatsink	[08:33]
asciilifeform:	( ports are in all the wrong places, and no room for any cabling, ditto heat spreaders )	[08:34]
* BingoBoingo	keeping quiet castle in #agriculturalsupremacy though meeting people and perhaps soon Serfing to fill	[08:34]
asciilifeform:	oh hey neato	[08:35]
mircea_popescu:	the sadness of agriculture being of course that old story of http://trilema.com/2013/the-corn-thing/	[08:35]
asciilifeform:	^ aha i immediately thought of it	[08:36]
mircea_popescu:	now THAT'd be a golden nut to crack. though i have ~0 hope of it ever working.	[08:36]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: well, many things depend on one's patience with die grinder. Slow sure, but most people may benefit from having a sort of meditative activity.	[08:36]
mircea_popescu:	agricultural supremacy ~= john deere (THAT is a place "self-driving" has utility btw) + monsanto genetic "engineering":	[08:36]
BingoBoingo:	mircea_popescu: AHA, yes, the corn thing	[08:36]
asciilifeform:	for gedankenexperiment, mircea_popescu , what would 'cracked' look like ?	[08:36]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform isn't it interesting how agricultural applicaiton ends up giving an anti-intellectual sheen to ANYTHING it touches.	[08:36]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform a situation where it is -ev to chemicalize/engineer.	[08:37]
mircea_popescu:	ie, plants come alive at night and fuck your wife	[08:37]
asciilifeform:	they... do. simply takes a while.	[08:37]
asciilifeform:	it was always -ev, simply not on short enuff time scale.	[08:37]
mircea_popescu:	female agriculture is a fine example of what cracked nut would be. try to make one out of rubber and "nlp", get what's coming to ye.	[08:37]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform this'd be the problem then.	[08:37]
asciilifeform:	petro supply falls ? as good as nukefest.	[08:38]
mircea_popescu:	nah, electric pathway is still above water.	[08:38]
asciilifeform:	whole thing is standing on cheap petro tho	[08:38]
shinohai:	basidiocarps sprout from floor and deliver sound rogering	[08:38]
asciilifeform:	for the chemicrud	[08:38]
BingoBoingo:	<mircea_popescu> asciilifeform isn't it interesting how agricultural applicaiton ends up giving an anti-intellectual sheen to ANYTHING it touches. << anti-intellectual sheen is part of the appeal of having named castle thusly, scares those who need it.	[08:38]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform you drastically underestimate how cheap electricity actually is.	[08:38]
asciilifeform:	not so cheap that anybody's fischer-tropsching his way into cornism	[08:39]
mircea_popescu:	this is a fashion.	[08:39]
mircea_popescu:	it's like saying "the reason 1990s girls are emo is that 1950 style vinly and kitchen aprons are expensive"	[08:39]
BingoBoingo:	Kind of how I was telling other people at hostel that when you make eye contact with everyone you come across on your walk, you tend not to get acosted	[08:39]
mircea_popescu:	no they aren't lmao. the "consensus" of herdemocracy is just not to produce it.	[08:39]
asciilifeform:	troo: i have nfi what kw-hour would cost in e.g. a china that goes full-bore su-style fission buildout	[08:40]
mircea_popescu:	soviet-style ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757906 ) nuke plant development would result in cost per elec-watt being half of cost per oil-watt within generation.	[08:40]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-24 16:12 asciilifeform: then next wk 'tell us who is trying to be philosophical, and getting in the way...'	[08:40]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform aha!	[08:40]
asciilifeform:	prolly yea	[08:40]
mircea_popescu:	the thing with these is they self-support. WAY the fuck more expensive to have 1st nuke power plant than to add the 1001th to a 1000 fleet.	[08:41]
* BingoBoingo	described US agriculture to the Brasileros. "In Estados Unidos, corn is grown and converted to sugar. Anything else costs too much to do. All of the livestock subsist on fermented corn chaff."	[08:41]
asciilifeform:	iirc good chunk of eastern europistan to this day running on golden age reactors	[08:41]
mircea_popescu:	yuppers.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu:	romania is basically hydro+nuclear.	[08:41]
mircea_popescu:	and nobody wants to look at why both a) romania became industrial power and b) romania was the only above-water state during crisis.	[08:42]
asciilifeform:	long in the tooth, and with american ersatz fuel by ge co. -- but running.	[08:42]
mircea_popescu:	imbecile austrians, that DID convince the world hitler was german and mozart austrian, NEVERTHELESS DID NOT!!!! figure out why they come to bucharest to seek money in 2007.	[08:42]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform ro makes its own fuel, wut.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu:	there's a nuclear fuel factory and everything.	[08:43]
asciilifeform:	neato.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu:	!~google fabrica de combustibil nuclear pitesti	[08:43]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: FCN Pitesti - Nuclearelectrica: <http://www.nuclearelectrica.ro/fcn/en/> Combustibil nuclear - Nuclearelectrica: <http://www.nuclearelectrica.ro/despre-noi/zona-tehnica/fcn-pitesti/> fcn pitesti - Nuclearelectrica: <http://www.nuclearelectrica.ro/fcn/en/contact/>	[08:43]
asciilifeform:	i was thinking of bulgaria specifically.	[08:43]
mircea_popescu:	ah. bulgaria is...	[08:44]
mircea_popescu:	well, you know that time the caer came up with idea of making eastern europe agricultural zone, and ceausescu threatened to quit the warsaw pact ?	[08:44]
asciilifeform:	!~google bulgaria fuel rods	[08:44]
jhvh1:	asciilifeform: Bulgaria opens dry spent nuclear fuel depot - Reuters: <http://www.reuters.com/article/bulgaria-nuclear-waste-idAFLDE74A13D20110512> Will The Russians Become Fuel Supplier To U.S. Nuclear Power ...: <https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/05/31/will-the-russians-become-fuel-supplier-to-u-s-nuclear-power-plants/> Cracks found in protective casings at Bulgaria nuclear plant - Phys.org: (1 more message)	[08:44]
mircea_popescu:	bulgarians were enthusiastic over the idea.	[08:44]
asciilifeform:	bulgaria, land of tomato, aha.	[08:45]
mircea_popescu:	pickled gerkins really, but yes.	[08:45]
asciilifeform:	tomato for petrol. but today imports both from eu. because spread legs for nato.	[08:45]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, 10-20k rods a year. this is not a lot objectively, but it keeps the item going	[08:45]
mircea_popescu:	(they're about 10TJ for lifetime, so whole factory makes say petaJ/year)	[08:46]
asciilifeform:	gotta wonder why no breeder reactor in ro	[08:47]
mircea_popescu:	um. who says no ?	[08:47]
asciilifeform:	is there ? su afaik did not build any	[08:47]
mircea_popescu:	(petaJ ~= 1.5 mn BOE, roughly speaking.)	[08:48]
mircea_popescu:	i have nfi.	[08:48]
asciilifeform:	'breeders' were a major thrust in pre-pantsuit usa, where abundant thorium	[08:48]
asciilifeform:	(e.g. new york stands on enormous thorium vein)	[08:49]
mircea_popescu:	myeah.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu:	the thing with these is they don't have to be big	[08:49]
BingoBoingo:	In other news, on January 5th or 8th tentatively penciling in an appointment with the data center to hammer out more details, pricing information, etc. By that point there should be a business to do contract signing even if banking continues to be a challenge.	[08:49]
mircea_popescu:	so saying "no" is tall ortder, da fuck anyone knows.	[08:49]
asciilifeform:	funnily enuff pre-zombiefication PG mentioned that his father had come to usa from britain to build breeder-reactors. and then driven into sad-retirement when pantsuitisml	[08:50]
asciilifeform:	*pantsuitism	[08:50]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, ro maintains very lively solid state physics programme at universities (mostly, buchjarest/magurele), i would not be surprised if they had one on the grounds.	[08:51]
asciilifeform:	it isn't even 'high tech'n, pretty clear how it works if you look at mendeleev table	[08:52]
asciilifeform:	( where is thorium , consider )	[08:52]
mircea_popescu:	this is why i say.	[08:52]
mircea_popescu:	obvious teaching tool etc.	[08:52]
asciilifeform:	hey betcha somebody in ro even knows about the beta thing.	[08:53]
asciilifeform:	some d00d with long, white beard.	[08:54]
mircea_popescu:	if /me ran the whole thing, item'd be used for all it's worth (less importantly, give promising kids a chance to learn what critical safety is more importantly, give promising kids chance to exclude themselves on grounds of can not keep a secret. "big hush" the secret thorium reactor would be lynchpin of the whole thing)	[08:54]
shinohai:	i still wanna know why Romania let Chad get away with stealing their flag.	[08:54]
mircea_popescu:	it's so tantalizingly perfect it'd be hard to believe not used while not believing people involved are all rank idiots.	[08:54]
asciilifeform:	aha!	[08:56]
mircea_popescu:	shinohai retarded brits maneuvering themselves into trying to matter. when hatman visited queen, some local fuckwits organised a buncha streetwalkers to pretend like they represent "the gypsy community" and "independently want to be called romania from now on". because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739911 wasn't invented by ustards, they just copied.	[08:56]
a111:	Logged on 2017-11-16 20:41 mircea_popescu: there's a great southpark episode explaining how this false dychotomy is intended to work in practice (i'm a bit couintry & im a bit rock and roll item)	[08:56]
mircea_popescu:	"wut is hatman gonna do, not go into queen carriage???"	[08:56]
mircea_popescu:	aanyways.	[08:56]
asciilifeform:	sumbody oughta set up a parallel usg out of crackheads in bmore	[08:57]
mircea_popescu:	it's coming.	[08:57]
asciilifeform:	send to london!	[08:57]
asciilifeform:	'gov in exile' (tm)(r)	[08:57]
mircea_popescu:	because obviously, why the hell not.	[08:57]
shinohai:	aha praise be to the logs, and a South Park episode to boot!	[08:57]
mircea_popescu:	eh, london. fuck london, nobody is ever going there again.	[08:57]
mircea_popescu:	place is done.	[08:58]
asciilifeform:	it's just this place, where they keep 'governments in exile', lel	[08:58]
mircea_popescu:	they. no moar theys.	[08:58]
asciilifeform:	dun have to be in old london. can put in orbit, like in pelevin's 'snuff'	[08:58]
mircea_popescu:	tehran.	[08:59]
asciilifeform:	eh who keeps idjits-in-exile other than the 'they' for anyhing.	[08:59]
mircea_popescu:	we.	[08:59]
mircea_popescu:	why the hell not.	[08:59]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc log(2^2048)^6/log(2^14)^6	[09:04]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: log(2^2048)^6/log(2^14)^6	[09:04]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc log(22048)6/log(214)6	[09:04]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: log(22048)6/log(214)6	[09:04]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc log(2)	[09:04]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: log(2) = 0.30102999566398114	[09:04]
mircea_popescu:	what the everloving	[09:05]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc log(2**2048)	[09:05]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: log(2**2048)	[09:05]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc 2**2048	[09:05]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: I could not find an output from Google Calc for: 2**2048	[09:05]
mircea_popescu:	!~calc 2^4	[09:05]
jhvh1:	mircea_popescu: 2^4 = 16	[09:05]
shinohai:	This cac really blows dunnit	[09:06]
mircea_popescu:	nuts.	[09:06]
shinohai:	*calc	[09:06]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, for the record : the ratio is ~146.	[09:06]
mircea_popescu:	ie, if http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753823 takes one week to compute, a full rsa sized item would take about a year.	[09:06]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-18 23:19 asciilifeform: btw that french aks is geological. n==11701 has been running for 10+ minutes, and is on ~9600 author's code indicates that answer appears at iteration 1000000007. that'd be 723 days on this box.	[09:06]
mircea_popescu:	two weeks i mean.	[09:07]
mircea_popescu:	if it takes 723 days, the item would STILL complete within the lifetime of the republic, which is to say roughly speaking 723 × 146 × 2 / 365 = 578.4 years.	[09:08]
mircea_popescu:	so it is not THAT useless.	[09:08]
mircea_popescu:	especially if esthlos comes up with some fast implementation	[09:08]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: ~iron~ aks may be worth something.	[09:12]
mircea_popescu:	ikr ?	[09:12]
asciilifeform:	as in, ffa-width cpu.	[09:12]
mircea_popescu:	whole point of exercise was, slow, yes, but actually not slow enough to discard entirely out of hand	[09:12]
asciilifeform:	but nothing short of that.	[09:12]
asciilifeform:	dedicated primality tester ic would rock.	[09:12]
mircea_popescu:	the major advantage of ever seeing a log in the big O is that well... log promises very good returns at end tail!	[09:13]
mircea_popescu:	one of my favourite sights, i confess	[09:13]
mircea_popescu:	when a complexity calculation returns a result in logs.	[09:13]
mircea_popescu:	i know of no better example of a candidate miracle.	[09:14]
asciilifeform:	e.g. karatsuba	[09:14]
asciilifeform:	( imho 1 of the great finds of that century, no less )	[09:14]
mircea_popescu:	yup	[09:16]
mircea_popescu:	there's outright cleverness, like that guy's method to compute inside pi and then there's just sheer good fucking fortune, like karatsuba.	[09:17]
asciilifeform:	not clear why one 'cleverness' but other, 'fortune', could just as easily say the reverse	[09:18]
mircea_popescu:	nah. cleverness in humans is simply equivalent of what drunks call "a moment of lucidity", ie, stopped being indescribably fucking stupid for one god damned moment.	[09:20]
mircea_popescu:	it's quite fucking obvious that you don't need to computhe the 5th decimal of pi to compute the billionth, if you just put down the bottle for one moment.	[09:21]
mircea_popescu:	admittedly putting down bottle hard to do, all this self-determination and choice-having and gotta watch teh tv gets in the way. but anwyay.	[09:21]
BingoBoingo:	Eh, if one bottles right eventually surrender comes and choice having space narrows	[09:23]
asciilifeform:	that or cirrhosis	[09:23]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform i dunno if i did this before, but let's put it in the logs at the risk of repeating self.	[09:24]
mircea_popescu:	there's an imbecile's view of "intelligent design" being floated about (mostly by people who are looking for a strawman, and reconstructed by them for this purpose). here's the correct version :	[09:25]
asciilifeform:	let's. ( i'ma come to tea, brb )	[09:25]
mircea_popescu:	human civilisation is entirely dependent on iron being present within its early environment. while it's true that iron is overwhelmingly abundant on earth, making up as it does 1/3 of it by mass, it is nevertheless also heavy enough to not be abundant on the surface. it is abundant in the core only. the surface iron comes from ancient collision with tinier earths that, like this one, had an iron-ish core, which core then ends	[09:26]
mircea_popescu:	up splashed all over this one's surface.	[09:26]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: Cirrhosis is usually has acute and reversible alcoholic hepatits as a herald well in advance of cirrhosis, if not problem space still narrows	[09:26]
mircea_popescu:	now, those peoples that did have iron in the environment, flourished. those that did not, became the fuckign tupi, stuck forever in stone age.	[09:27]
mircea_popescu:	there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.	[09:27]
BingoBoingo:	Eh, iron core's just global wanking conspiracy shit. Uranium core or bust!	[09:27]
mircea_popescu:	this is not a singular example, it is a pattern, and a pattern that VERY insistently repeats.	[09:27]
mircea_popescu:	for instance : there is NO REASON why general relativity should be tractable with (minor) extensions on infinitesimal calculus. in other words : there is NO REASON the gap between newton and einstein be narrow enough to be closed by a guy like einstein	[09:28]
mircea_popescu:	if you look at the history of the human thought, a certain sense of "stairwell" does become apparent -- they did x which suddenly made y feasible and guess what ? sooner or later (usually, later : see gunpowder steam engine and all the numerous examples we keep rehashing in logs) they'd y!	[09:29]
mircea_popescu:	now, from a strict probabilistic perspective, there's nothing evidently requiring ALL the god damned stairs to be one foot tall at the most. yet, they all are.	[09:29]
mircea_popescu:	evidently this is a matter of selected group, humanity only ever took thesteps it could take, so its whole stairwell will be bound by what a biosack shaped like human could overstep	[09:30]
mircea_popescu:	NEVERTHELESS!!! there are MANY!!! steps in this ladder, that all occured.	[09:30]
mircea_popescu:	at no prior point was there a case when... no step available, shortest one is eight billion light years tall and fuck you.	[09:30]
mircea_popescu:	this may be naturally occuring, of course. but if you choose to believe it's rather deliberately set-up, there's little in either res divinae or lit hum to impugn you with.	[09:31]
mircea_popescu:	(lit hum includes all sciences from agriculture to string theory + philosophy, for the record)	[09:31]
mircea_popescu:	(and evidently, if this is not evident, the argument is not limited to culture theory of evolution proposes a succession of steps to arrive to humanoid, that all similarily also happened. wel...)	[09:37]
mircea_popescu:	and since i mentioned that : religion simply means acknowledgement of one's betters. it's all it is, worthip of the superior.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu:	that's what "caesar was proclaimed god" means, to the roman mind.	[09:44]
mircea_popescu:	the necessary correlate of any functional republic, res divinae, the two together forming... a religion.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu:	which is WHY i kept chuckling at inept illiterate imbeciles herp-derping about "oh, a cult".	[09:45]
mircea_popescu:	turns out... it fucking helps having the letters, at the very least if you are intent on interacting with one who does.	[09:45]
mircea_popescu:	but aaanyways.	[09:46]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759571 << pretty wide gap, and was closed by buncha folx, see below,	[10:02]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 14:28 mircea_popescu: for instance : there is NO REASON why general relativity should be tractable with (minor) extensions on infinitesimal calculus. in other words : there is NO REASON the gap between newton and einstein be narrow enough to be closed by a guy like einstein	[10:02]
mircea_popescu:	yes, but wide in a certain limited sense.	[10:02]
asciilifeform:	einstein really gavinized minkowski and lorentz	[10:02]
mircea_popescu:	sort-of akin to running mt_rand on (0, infinity) and expecting results to fit a register.	[10:03]
mircea_popescu:	however wide that register may be...	[10:03]
asciilifeform:	this however is not the problem	[10:03]
asciilifeform:	problem is that the stairwell pov presupposes its conclusion. 'it happened, thereby it was the next step.' exactly 'newton sat down to discover'(tm)(r)	[10:03]
asciilifeform:	phakt : plenty of 'next steps' that apparently too tall. e.g. roomtemp supercon.	[10:03]
mircea_popescu:	(i deliberately said "a guy like einstein" to avoid the history discussion)	[10:03]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform yes, but read on.	[10:04]
asciilifeform:	or for that matter, usable maxwell. ( modern electronic design uses a narrowly restricted, i.e. sorta-fits-in-head special form of maxwell )	[10:04]
asciilifeform:	or i could go on.	[10:04]
asciilifeform:	and there's a reason we're talking over waveguide and not, say, entangletron	[10:05]
asciilifeform:	or, or.	[10:05]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform yes, but read on!!11	[10:05]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759576 << steps that are taller than the tallest man, look like walls, not steps	[10:05]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 14:30 mircea_popescu: at no prior point was there a case when... no step available, shortest one is eight billion light years tall and fuck you.	[10:05]
mircea_popescu:	sure.	[10:06]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759577 << if beelzebub made the levels for us to walk, he must be quite disappointed at the '% secrets' (think to 'doom'/'doom2' level endings, lol)	[10:07]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 14:31 mircea_popescu: this may be naturally occuring, of course. but if you choose to believe it's rather deliberately set-up, there's little in either res divinae or lit hum to impugn you with.	[10:07]
mircea_popescu:	aha!	[10:07]
asciilifeform:	plenty of what i suspect 'kindergarten-level' (in hindsight, like karatsuba) -- unsolved.	[10:07]
mircea_popescu:	he's stuck putting in there material we only reliably get log(n) of	[10:07]
mircea_popescu:	which is funny because foretold -- see euler's count of prime numbers.	[10:07]
asciilifeform:	'motherfuckers, i gave then such particle-like electrons, and they STILL dun have roomtemp supercon...'	[10:08]
mircea_popescu:	"for them to find four i gotta put in ten, and it gets worse as you go further"	[10:08]
mircea_popescu:	turns out that the first and perhaps only possible result of natural philosophy is to explain why divine anger is necessary and justified.	[10:09]
mircea_popescu:	"what if YOU had to make ten for every four ?"	[10:09]
asciilifeform:	divine anger was always the part that made sense to everybody. ( at least everybody other than the poor benighted http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-08#1748753 folx . )	[10:10]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-08 15:02 asciilifeform: the 'good climate makes folx lazy and slowly climbing 'back up to trees' ' item is an old saw, but i'm not aware of any major hole in the theory	[10:10]
asciilifeform:	witness the gods pictured by tropical fuckwits	[10:10]
asciilifeform:	( though even there, in the slightly less 'female' folx, they had angry godz )	[10:11]
mircea_popescu:	aha	[10:11]
* mircea_popescu	sings, "you would be angry too... if it happened... tooo yoooou"	[10:12]
mircea_popescu:	(as to domus and personal divinity -- slavegirls regularily apologize for "not having managed more". because it's true, the fundamental with a view to only interaction with the superior is built out of the vague regret of one's own insufficiency. da fuck else is there.)	[10:13]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759568 << speaking of this: nobody has anyfi re what earthling history could have looked like if... iridium, say, had been similarly available	[10:13]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.	[10:13]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform or BingoBoingo 's uranium. three heads, etcetera.	[10:13]
asciilifeform:	possibly proverbian alphacentaurian would spit, 'see, THIS is what happens when no surface iridium! they did not have the good fortune to meet the proper meteorites...'	[10:13]
asciilifeform:	*proverbial	[10:14]
asciilifeform:	uranium is actually quite common on planet3.	[10:14]
mircea_popescu:	(for the astrophysics noobs : material composition of any corner of space is determined by supernova/plain star proportion, which as best anyone can determine is the only true random variable in nature)	[10:14]
asciilifeform:	even on surface. ( that very same yellow sand in ro, from earlier threads. )	[10:14]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform yes, and look at ro! lol.	[10:14]
mircea_popescu:	(reason earth is fulla iron is that gold needs a discretely different star to produce yes there's a continuous mass consideration involoved, but the results -- discretized)	[10:15]
BingoBoingo:	Ah, nuclear chemistry. Where integers make all the difference.	[10:32]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, for they clamoring for references -- the complete works of varro (such as they remain) are most instructive here.	[10:32]
mircea_popescu:	perfectly respectable anthropologist to this very day, in preference of most anyone ever born in an english speaking household, and certainly anyone born in the colonies.	[10:33]
asciilifeform:	iirc most of varro evaporated	[10:34]
mircea_popescu:	it did	[10:34]
asciilifeform:	suxx.	[10:34]
mircea_popescu:	god did not promise you get to keep all your napkins.	[10:34]
asciilifeform:	or any	[10:34]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, a lot of it is guessable on the basis of, mostly stoic re-write.	[10:35]
mircea_popescu:	the poets/philosophers/civil servants tripartite discussion of divinity most indicative.	[10:35]
mircea_popescu:	so in the same sense the french/swiss folk could almost-read unpublished newton on the basis of their own understanding of calculus...	[10:36]
asciilifeform:	that's sorta what made the 'natural philosophy' thing take off -- the realization that 'it's still there', whether or not newton bothers to publish	[10:37]
mircea_popescu:	aha	[10:37]
BingoBoingo:	!~ticker --market all	[10:39]
jhvh1:	BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 14328.86, vol: 18062.50528010 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 14130.0, vol: 79070.56865041 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 14352.1, vol: 4760.58484451 \| Volume-weighted last average: 14175.6283124	[10:40]
asciilifeform:	!!key spyked	[10:41]
deedbot:	http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc	[10:41]
asciilifeform:	!~later tell phf plox to snarf : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch1_genesis.vpatch.spyked.sig	[10:43]
jhvh1:	asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.	[10:43]
asciilifeform:	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913&cpage=1#comment-18457 << congrats to spyked , graduate of ffa ch1.	[10:43]
* mircea_popescu	savagely fucked sleeping girl after which, taking advantage of well known property of dreams to be recountable if dreamer suddenly awakened, asked what she had been dreaming of.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu:	"i dunno... stupid...dating show...something."	[11:04]
mircea_popescu:	i advised her to be careful what she dreams of in the future.	[11:04]
asciilifeform:	but meanwhile, in historic loose ends , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1758001 << how to square this with >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637609 ( summary : classical bitcoin permits ~modification of old blocks~ via the idjit 'tx replace' mechanism. even though -- as i understand -- it'd split the network if actually ever deployed. which it was not, not even in prb. but theoretically still permitted by the protocol. )	[11:04]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-24 17:15 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, v-tronization of blockchain is unavoidable.	[11:04]
a111:	Logged on 2017-04-05 13:43 mircea_popescu: understand something about "declarations" in this vein : they themselves are an attack, if you can't universally enforce them. the us collapsed out of an attempt to declare that "they, not us, are the bad guys" without the actual strength to enforce this so did the soviet union, and so does every inept mother who tries to tell her kid what to do out of line.	[11:04]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform republic has strength to enforce dunnit ?	[11:05]
asciilifeform:	driving uppity miners into bankruptcy, abatement of gavins, etc. is thus far mircea_popescu's dept.	[11:06]
asciilifeform:	afaik nobody else has got with-what.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu:	but the discussion here is merely "how to enforce a correct chain of patches"	[11:06]
asciilifeform:	patches yes. i was speaking of the blockchain-vchain parallel.	[11:06]
mircea_popescu:	it mearly meant this much, that it'd be a chain of patches.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu:	no moar.	[11:07]
asciilifeform:	which has currently a birth defect hole in it, the classical blockchain is not properly speaking immutable.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu:	software'd better not be immutable either, lest we're stuck with c.	[11:07]
asciilifeform:	history had better be immutable. lest we get stuck with having to undo c again and again forever.	[11:07]
mircea_popescu:	nature comes with a key shaped like that hole, it is called "apostasy is its own punishment".	[11:08]
asciilifeform:	it does. problem is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759431 .	[11:08]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 13:37 asciilifeform: it was always -ev, simply not on short enuff time scale.	[11:08]
asciilifeform:	recall the cousin-fucking thread.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu:	im not sure this is a problem. people use crapple os, an unsupported chain off the main v trunk as it is.	[11:08]
mircea_popescu:	there is no difference between a patch unsigned and another patch unsigned, much like there's no difference between a nobody "gerald davis" and the exact same nobody "gerard david"	[11:09]
mircea_popescu:	you know how many alt-mps the empire has summoned up as if it does something ?	[11:10]
asciilifeform:	'Федот, да не тот' (tm)(r)(aphorism)	[11:10]
mircea_popescu:	amusingly, da ne tot in romanian means "give us everything"	[11:11]
asciilifeform:	aha.	[11:11]
asciilifeform:	but classic 'false cognate' (lol, ~entire sentence made of'em)	[11:11]
asciilifeform:	this oughta be a genre...	[11:11]
mircea_popescu:	yeah, but not in english	[11:11]
asciilifeform:	uncle al had a german/english one	[11:12]
asciilifeform:	but it escapes me	[11:12]
asciilifeform:	( i remember 1 key word, 'also' )	[11:12]
mircea_popescu:	there's the buffalo item recently in trilema...	[11:13]
asciilifeform:	afaik german is the only living lang close-enuff to stand a chance of working like this with eng	[11:13]
mircea_popescu:	yea	[11:14]
BingoBoingo:	The terror in people's eyes here when they talk of their trouble with "phrasal verbs"	[11:18]
BingoBoingo:	It is like when I get surprised with yet another species of past tense	[11:20]
mircea_popescu:	"tense" being nonsense in the first place. time + aspect, learn grammar properly if at all.	[11:20]
deedbot:	http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/28/three-week-in-montevideo-superpowers-and-handicaps-of-the-extranjero-engaged-in-long-term-hostel-living/ << Bingo Blog - Three Week In Montevideo: Superpowers and Handicaps of The Extranjero Engaged in Long Term Hostel Living	[11:30]
BingoBoingo:	Pls to point out typos por favor	[11:31]
asciilifeform:	BingoBoingo: it piqued by the >> is piqued ?	[11:31]
BingoBoingo:	gracias asciilifeform	[11:32]
asciilifeform:	mised gender crowd >> mixed ?	[11:32]
asciilifeform:	disabiguate >> disambiguate ?	[11:32]
asciilifeform:	comb the thing yerself BingoBoingo , this one was typed on ipad or wat.	[11:32]
asciilifeform:	or aspell -a etc.	[11:33]
asciilifeform:	Yo se yo puedo tener hambre >> yo se que yo pudo....	[11:34]
asciilifeform:	ward of delusions >> off ?	[11:34]
BingoBoingo:	asciilifeform: Typed on exhausted brain. Breaking down the language barrier, exhausting.	[11:34]
BingoBoingo:	Brb, spellcheck	[11:34]
asciilifeform:	i'ma relent nao, srsly	[11:34]
asciilifeform:	*puedo	[11:35]
BingoBoingo:	updated post spell check	[11:40]
ben_vulpes:	holy log already	[11:50]
ben_vulpes:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759407 << phf pasted me some emacs erc (irc client) auth scriptage way back in the gribble days which got him a rating, and trinque and i'd been drinking together in meatland, and hanging in previously a mentioned pantsuit hellhole irc channel and ricocheted off #b-a a few times (at my insistence iirc) before it stuck	[11:53]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 13:28 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758896 << i have this vague memory that both phf and trinque were originally introduced in this sense by ben_vulpes whereas you were introduced similarily by hanbot. by comparison the pantsuit "evidently correct & only method" of herdemocracy has produced a whole lot of indiancandies and other self-choice delusionists.	[11:53]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes was here before asciilifeform , i think, and in the era prior to proper logging, so i have nfi where he came from	[11:54]
ben_vulpes:	nah, kakologs were in place before i showed up	[11:54]
asciilifeform:	ah hm.	[11:54]
asciilifeform:	!#born ben_vulpes	[11:55]
asciilifeform:	^ phf et al : pheature req ?	[11:55]
phf:	it was literally the case of "milord, i made this basket from only finest of twigs, for your misses. ... bless you, milord"	[11:56]
asciilifeform:	lol	[11:56]
ben_vulpes:	lol i stuck my head into bitcointalk.org for all of ten minutes before i found hanbot's legendary piece and jumped to #b-a	[11:56]
* asciilifeform	possibly was the only 1 who skipped tardstalk entirely	[11:57]
phf:	asciilifeform: no, i ultimately came here by way of loper-os	[11:57]
asciilifeform:	ah hm	[11:57]
asciilifeform:	afaik phf is currently the all-star champ from that group	[11:58]
asciilifeform:	the rest, variously, went mad	[11:58]
asciilifeform:	( or simply failed to reach takeoff velocity )	[11:58]
BingoBoingo:	ben_vulpes: Which legendary piece of hanbot's? There were many.	[11:59]
ben_vulpes:	BingoBoingo: you know i just went looking for a "best of MPOE-PR" and didn't find one	[12:00]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: there's a mirror of the collection on mircea_popescu's www	[12:00]
asciilifeform:	lessee if he digs up the link when he wakes up	[12:00]
BingoBoingo:	http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/	[12:02]
asciilifeform:	^ding^	[12:02]
phf:	so it looks like i started reading loper-os in 2008 or so	[12:08]
* asciilifeform	meanwhile was watching zoolag sync, 'hmm 10min from nao' turned into hour+, and still 10blox behind. culprit seems to be a combo of 'everybody else is lagging' and 'flooded with mempool crud, and as result , not spending enuff time disconnecting unproductives and pushgetblocks()ing with novel peers'	[12:10]
BingoBoingo:	brb, me voy a immersion	[12:13]
BingoBoingo:	<asciilifeform> !#born ben_vulpes << This would understate his age because, nick change	[12:14]
asciilifeform:	fine, so #!born benkey	[12:15]
BingoBoingo:	Similar for undata/trinque	[12:15]
asciilifeform:	benkay	[12:15]
asciilifeform:	alert reader (tm)(r) oughta know.	[12:15]
BingoBoingo:	OMG I'll stop transmitting my contagious typos	[12:15]
BingoBoingo:	me voy ahora para immerse	[12:15]
phf:	!#vulpes	[12:15]
a111:	to fix the UNENDING STREAM of precious bull run	[12:15]
asciilifeform:	lol	[12:15]
ben_vulpes:	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124441.msg1336919#msg1336919 << ere it is	[12:21]
asciilifeform:	oh hah i thought that www croaked long ago	[12:21]
ben_vulpes:	nah, couldn't possibly cost more to run than it enables people to scam	[12:22]
* asciilifeform	currently puzzling over 'motherfuckers, e.g. deedbot is 501444-high, why is it physically possible for zoolag to have open connection to it and yet sit at 501436 for 20+ min'	[12:25]
ben_vulpes:	i imagine it's in your addnode set?	[12:26]
asciilifeform:	that does 0	[12:26]
asciilifeform:	remember.	[12:26]
ben_vulpes:	well at boot you pushgetblocks to everyone you connect to	[12:26]
asciilifeform:	i run with aggression ( from this point on i will run NO nodes without aggression ) so boot time is irrelevant	[12:27]
phf:	!#born benkey	[12:27]
ben_vulpes:	processmessage, right right	[12:28]
asciilifeform:	phf: benkay	[12:28]
phf:	!#born benkay	[12:28]
a111:	2013-02-10 <benkay> i'm waiting for the developing world to figure it out	[12:28]
mod6:	im running with alf's aggression now too.	[12:28]
asciilifeform:	phf: neato!!	[12:28]
asciilifeform:	!#born asciilifeform	[12:28]
a111:	2013-02-02 <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: working on it	[12:28]
phf:	i think that maybe it should also return a link to original, or maybe post more than one line	[12:28]
asciilifeform:	a yes	[12:28]
asciilifeform:	link .	[12:29]
phf:	!#born phf	[12:29]
a111:	2014-03-20 <phf> not quite	[12:29]
mod6:	im at ~500351 -- getting close to full-sync. hoping to get it there so can have mine on the republican list. will let you know how it goes with 'aggression'	[12:29]
mod6:	!#born mod6	[12:30]
a111:	2012-08-17 <mod6> hai	[12:30]
mod6:	heheh	[12:30]
asciilifeform:	mod6: when i think about shitoshi's idiocy that 'aggression' replaces, i froth with rage. the sheer stink of winblowzism, 'let's all run nodes for 2h a day after booting winblowz to play whorecraft-III, boot time is sooospeshul'	[12:30]
* asciilifeform	feels quite like fool for not having patched it in first opening salvo after genesis	[12:31]
asciilifeform:	aaaand...	[12:32]
asciilifeform:	ACHTUNG, PANZERS! zoolag -- seems to be at tip of the chain.	[12:32]
mod6:	ah, cool.	[12:32]
asciilifeform:	mod6 plox to re-add zoolag to trb roster.	[12:32]
asciilifeform:	trinque , mircea_popescu , et al ^^	[12:33]
mod6:	Sure, what's the IP nowadays?	[12:33]
asciilifeform:	same as previously	[12:33]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-05#1694288	[12:33]
a111:	Logged on 2017-08-05 21:11 asciilifeform: zoolag live as of now at ye olde 108.31.170.49 .	[12:33]
mod6:	Ah, cheers.	[12:35]
ben_vulpes:	http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=makefiles#1317 << man...	[12:35]
asciilifeform:	the bulldog-rhinoceros hybrid of having both pushes and pulls, is quite nonsensical	[12:36]
asciilifeform:	pushing dun do much for a trb node, who needs at any given time THAT ONE SPECIFIC NEXT block	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	( any other, is either old, or an orphan )	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	99.99999%+ of what gets 'pushed' to a trb node, is thrown straight into the rubbish	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	( incl. tx )	[12:37]
asciilifeform:	cuz 'no se fia'	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-25#1490595 )	[12:38]
a111:	Logged on 2016-06-25 23:48 a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:34 deedbot: [Trilema] No Se Fia - http://trilema.com/2016/no-se-fia/	[12:38]
asciilifeform:	in mostly but not wholly-unrelated noose, asciilifeform searched the market for little lcd thing one could plug into usb jack, to have trbtron display height at all times while it sits on the shelf. but TO THIS DAY none exist that cost less than THE FUCKING MACHINE lol	[12:41]
asciilifeform:	and not because display expensive -- i have e.g. chinese usb 'watt meter' dongle with display, that cost iirc 3bux	[12:41]
asciilifeform:	simply because apparently 'no demand'	[12:41]
deedbot:	http://www.contravex.com/2017/12/28/the-little-elf-that-saved-christmas/ << Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The little Elf that saved Christmas.	[12:41]
asciilifeform:	^ next: the little pe that saved christmas	[12:42]
asciilifeform:	( and was it a 32-bit or 64- elf... )	[12:42]
asciilifeform:	'The Apple TV was connected to a Bose CineMate soundbar via Optical Audio connection but the Bose system was in indeterminable working condition. For reasons beyond the pale of explanation or sanity, the Bose system didn’t have any physical buttons on it. Not for power, not for volume, not for anything.' << lol!!	[12:43]
asciilifeform:	'When AirPlaying from each of them, however, Netflix would throw “Error 30103″ every goddam time' << ahahaha	[12:43]
asciilifeform:	poor pete_dushenski	[12:43]
shinohai:	heh https://1209k.com/bp/	[12:44]
asciilifeform:	wassat	[12:45]
shinohai:	a prb chain paradise!	[12:45]
asciilifeform:	snoar	[12:45]
shinohai:	saves me from having to run the trash myself, im poor!	[12:45]
asciilifeform:	saves how ?	[12:48]
shinohai:	if i am curious to know what height the btrash is at, etc	[12:49]
asciilifeform:	no shortage of www frontends for those iirc	[12:49]
shinohai:	well certainly not	[12:49]
asciilifeform:	meanwhile zoolag, a machine the size of a man's fist, not only has 0 problem keeping up with tip of spear, but slightly pacing ahead of, e.g., bci & co	[12:52]
asciilifeform:	( however, possibly it is , to be fair, on an uncharacteristically decent, for plebelands, pipe . )	[12:53]
mod6:	http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << updated with zoolag	[12:57]
asciilifeform:	ty mod6 !	[12:57]
mod6:	np	[12:57]
phf:	asciilifeform: zoolag running with your new patches?	[13:04]
asciilifeform:	aha	[13:04]
asciilifeform:	well just that 1	[13:04]
asciilifeform:	born from classical 'makefiles' (via mod6)	[13:05]
asciilifeform:	see also phf's chart!	[13:05]
phf:	!#born phf	[13:07]
a111:	Logged on 2014-03-20 22:39 phf: not quite	[13:07]
phf:	!#born phf	[13:07]
a111:	2014-03-20 <phf> not quite	[13:07]
asciilifeform:	canhaz links?	[13:08]
phf:	lesse	[13:17]
phf:	!#born phf	[13:17]
a111:	2014-03-20 <phf> not quite	[13:17]
a111:	http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-20#570859	[13:17]
asciilifeform:	whynot on same line, like log refs	[13:17]
asciilifeform:	keep the 1:1 eaten:shat rule for bots	[13:17]
phf:	i think deedbot spits two entries sometimes with the wallet functionality	[13:18]
asciilifeform:	troo	[13:18]
asciilifeform:	how about, e.g.: 'http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-20#570859 : Logged on: 2014-03-20 <phf> not quite'	[13:18]
a111:	Logged on 2014-03-20 22:39 phf: not quite	[13:18]
phf:	yeah	[13:18]
phf:	but the main reason is that i realized that cl-irc probably doesn't properly split lines, which needs to be solved	[13:19]
phf:	which i think is a problem in quoter, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-25#1758552	[13:20]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-25 19:00 mircea_popescu: anyway, for the record and in case it isn't entirely self-evident on the basis of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-25#1758486 : whenever some self-proclaimed "sovereign" of the fiat sort tries to say "hey, we have a law", the correct response is to a) point out to that self-proclaimed faux sovereign that there exist other just as valid because just as self-proclaimed faux sovereigns (the eu, russia, china, whatever, bucnha them	[13:20]
phf:	missing "atever, bucnha them"	[13:20]
phf:	but i'm not sure that i want it to spit that extra bit, even though it's missing, hmm...	[13:21]
phf:	aaaand since i don't want to think about any of this shit right now, you get a multiline born until i get to it :>	[13:22]
asciilifeform:	still quiteuseful.	[13:25]
ben_vulpes:	"Few things here appear to be more rare or valuable than persons capable and willing to deploy humiliation, particularly the necessary educational sort." << word	[13:30]
ben_vulpes:	BingoBoingo: "gansta roll"	[13:30]
phf:	!!key spyked	[14:06]
deedbot:	http://wot.deedbot.org/0x541A976BB5FC4B455D7FBC61BDAE9D051A3D3B95.asc	[14:06]
phf:	asciilifeform: sigs up	[14:08]
asciilifeform:	phf: ty!	[14:09]
phf:	asciilifeform: https://www.patreon.com/xahlee	[14:24]
asciilifeform:	nao if only d00d had a key!!	[14:26]
asciilifeform:	because as-is, i've nfi who that is.	[14:26]
asciilifeform:	'shakespeare or some other man by that name'	[14:26]
asciilifeform:	in other oddities: 'EXCEPTION: St12out_of_range \nCInv::GetCommand() : type=1073741825 unknown type \nbitcoin in ProcessMessage() \n'	[14:31]
asciilifeform:	^ nonfatal eggog, but interestingly not caught by malleus, and afaik not previously seen	[14:32]
asciilifeform:	#!s type=1073741825	[14:32]
asciilifeform:	!#s type=1073741825	[14:32]
a111:	2 results for "type=1073741825", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=type%3D1073741825	[14:32]
asciilifeform:	^ if anybody knows what kind of prb generates these, and for what, plox to write in.	[14:34]
asciilifeform:	( i suspect an attempted overflow exploit, against something-or-other )	[14:34]
deedbot:	http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/12/28/eucrypt-chapter-3-miller-rabin-implementation/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 3: Miller-Rabin Implementation	[15:27]
phf:	diana_coman: i think there might be an issue with your ch3	[15:33]
diana_coman:	I just noticed the weird graph any idea what?	[15:34]
diana_coman:	I tested it locally with v and v99 and everything pressed fine	[15:34]
diana_coman:	it does modify a lot of things so it's seen as having antecedents ch1, ch2 and the mpi-fix iirc	[15:34]
diana_coman:	is that the trouble?	[15:34]
diana_coman:	phf, ^	[15:34]
phf:	so the weird graph indicates that some hunks are missing antecedents, in this case at least test_mpi.c is claiming a previous version that's not in btcbase	[15:35]
phf:	7E38475A32331EA69EE91A211E803910503868710D1E140179CB4B9B7C3767B9334BABE713D8E721F6E616A5FD5012ED19791D12CF2EAD59C5DAC437688E0B2C	[15:35]
diana_coman:	I've updated the reference shelf phf, maybe you are missing the previous patch? http://www.dianacoman.com/reference-code-shelf/	[15:35]
phf:	ah, the fix copy thing!	[15:36]
phf:	diana_coman: is working now, ty	[15:37]
diana_coman:	thank you, phf!	[15:39]
danielpbarron:	!!up pint	[15:43]
deedbot:	pint voiced for 30 minutes.	[15:43]
phf:	!!up pint	[15:50]
deedbot:	pint voiced for 30 minutes.	[15:50]
phf:	asciilifeform: http://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/355219-valeriy-bardin-istoriya-cheloveka-prisoedinivshego-sssr-k-seti	[16:37]
trinque:	that was odd.	[16:44]
trinque:	Connection reset by peer << aha	[16:45]
trinque:	!!up mircea_popescu	[16:47]
deedbot:	mircea_popescu voiced for 30 minutes.	[16:47]
mircea_popescu:	hm	[16:47]
trinque:	bot was getting disconnected due to mysterytube reasons. your pm !!up might work now	[16:48]
mircea_popescu:	lessee	[16:48]
ben_vulpes:	did we do http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42505261 yet?	[17:05]
phf:	^ http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759378	[17:06]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 03:31 shinohai: http://archive.is/vAfjT <<< now THIS is the lulziest thing, to me, of the entire week.	[17:06]
ben_vulpes:	that's right	[17:06]
mircea_popescu:	lol the pantsuit spamsites just recycle the same "content" ? who couldve...	[17:08]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759713 << lol.	[17:10]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 16:56 phf: it was literally the case of "milord, i made this basket from only finest of twigs, for your misses. ... bless you, milord"	[17:10]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759720 << nah, apeloyee character also from there iirc.	[17:11]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 16:58 asciilifeform: the rest, variously, went mad	[17:11]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759732 << but how are you to know.	[17:12]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 17:15 asciilifeform: fine, so #!born benkey	[17:12]
mircea_popescu:	also, simply !~from:benkay and go to last page.	[17:12]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2013-02-10#-130013	[17:13]
a111:	Logged on 2013-02-10 04:08 benkay: i'm waiting for the developing world to figure it out	[17:13]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759782 << yes, pushdata is nonsensical model for bitcoin nodes.	[17:16]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 17:37 asciilifeform: pushing dun do much for a trb node, who needs at any given time THAT ONE SPECIFIC NEXT block	[17:16]
mircea_popescu:	works ok for eg torrents, where all data is needed once in no particular order, but blockchain is not torrent.	[17:16]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759788 << o shit that was one helluva slum.	[17:18]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 17:38 a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:48 a111: Logged on 2016-06-25 23:34 deedbot: [Trilema] No Se Fia - http://trilema.com/2016/no-se-fia/	[17:18]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759799 << some dood, "fireduck"	[17:21]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 17:45 asciilifeform: wassat	[17:21]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759827 << the rule is "one line response" and yes	[17:21]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 18:17 asciilifeform: keep the 1:1 eaten:shat rule for bots	[17:21]
mircea_popescu:	motherfucking patreon	[17:23]
mircea_popescu:	i am personally insulted by all the useless fuckwits with patreon profiles because unlike the useless fuckwits a la say rms, they MOVED THERE AFTER THE REPUBLIC.	[17:23]
mircea_popescu:	this is like "keybase" except more offensive.	[17:23]
danielpbarron:	i had that earlier today, went to #somechannel saying i want to sponsor show. they give me patreon link	[17:24]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759851 << modern prb. "it just segfaulted, man"	[17:25]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 19:32 asciilifeform: ^ nonfatal eggog, but interestingly not caught by malleus, and afaik not previously seen	[17:25]
mircea_popescu:	danielpbarron idiots gotta idiot, they're not fucking dedicated to ANYTHING like they're dedicated to the maintenance and perpetuation of the empire of idiocy.	[17:25]
mircea_popescu:	seething fucking burning hatred already, jesus f.	[17:25]
danielpbarron:	they also gave me a gmail address, for what that's worth. i'm like "what's wrong with doing it right here??"	[17:26]
mircea_popescu:	no conception of anything is what's wrong.	[17:26]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759874 << whoa check out how deep the forbes subversion goes, they actually hired one who knows enough of ru society to "fall upon his house".	[17:28]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 21:37 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/355219-valeriy-bardin-istoriya-cheloveka-prisoedinivshego-sssr-k-seti	[17:28]
mircea_popescu:	putting the usd and euro "values" as if they existed or mattered up top is one thing. but this, thbis is liek moar skill and ability than seen from usg in 20 years.	[17:29]
mircea_popescu:	ahahahahaah	[17:30]
mircea_popescu:	ooomfg holy shit...	[17:30]
mircea_popescu:	"Или думаешь, что вырвешься. Потому что эти несколько лет вдруг прервутся сообщением — «Бардин умер». Вас также может заинтересовать..."	[17:30]
mircea_popescu:	im going to make this the permanent reference endpoint to that entire story of how sane language protects the speaker from idiocy as a passive aura.	[17:31]
mircea_popescu:	especially fabuous as the "you may also be interested in" bullshit is liek "virtualnoe bezdele rabotodateli rasplachivayutsya za internet SERFING" under "karera i svoy biznes". AS FUCKING IF!	[17:34]
mircea_popescu:	"the computing centers, tired of routine, seized the novelty" holy crap. moscow station last functional usg item, defo.	[17:35]
shinohai:	I missed the pantsuit drama yesterday http://archive.is/bpJUc	[18:01]
mircea_popescu:	lol all the self important "i'll read something else". really bitch ? what will you read, trilema ?	[18:03]
mircea_popescu:	as if there's fucking options at their level. "oh, i am destitute but have options!!1"	[18:03]
mircea_popescu:	"daniel is a bot" "how can you tell it's a bot ?" "because i dont like what it says, but let's veil this into some numerology considerations". hurr.	[18:04]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759857 << oh hey hey hey lbj!!	[18:26]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 20:27 deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2017/12/28/eucrypt-chapter-3-miller-rabin-implementation/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 3: Miller-Rabin Implementation	[18:26]
* asciilifeform	puts ^item on read-conveyor	[18:26]
shinohai:	"'Cryptocurrency enthusiast and cybersecurity pioneer John McAfee has claimed that his Twitter account was compromised by an unknown offender who used his social media account to fraudulently promote “undervalued” digital coins.'	[18:28]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759874 >> 'России на этой встрече предложили оплатить взнос в группу, сообразно размеру сети. И выяснилось, что Россия (напомню, 90-е годы, денег нет ни у кого и никаких) должна заплатить больше, чем Англия, Франция и Германия вм	[18:29]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 21:37 phf: asciilifeform: http://www.forbes.ru/tehnologii/355219-valeriy-bardin-istoriya-cheloveka-prisoedinivshego-sssr-k-seti	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	есте взятые. Бардин взял слово и заявил, что заплатить согласен, но если деньги будут потрачены согласно уставу организации — на доведение уровня развития реципиентов бюджета до уровня доноров. И если Англия с Францией на эти деньги будут	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	рушить мосты и ломать дороги, то мы, конечно, оплатим. Англия с Францией подумали, и претензии к России умерили.' << i had nfi	[18:29]
asciilifeform:	'russia [at eu unix user group] was invited to pay a membership due in proportion to its network size. it turned out that russia (remember, '90s, nobody's got any kind of moneys whatsoever) must pay more than england, france, and germany put together. bardin took the stage and proclaimed that he is ready to pay, but only if the money will be used in accordance with the organization's charter -- to bring the development level of the r	[18:31]
asciilifeform:	ecipients to that of the donor's. and if england and france will put this money to use to demolish bridges and bread down roads, then we of course will pay. england and france thought about it, and their dispute with russia died down.'	[18:31]
asciilifeform:	*break down	[18:32]
asciilifeform:	'Наверное, до конца своих дней Валера Бардин остался советским человеком — мне кажется, он не умел делать вещи, полезные лично ему, или какой-то отдельной группе. Всем. Или никому. Мы все когда-то были такими. Мы. Люди из уничтоженной страны.	[18:33]
asciilifeform:	И, может быть, еще будем. Может быть это именно то, чему стоило учиться у Валерия Бардина. Когда он был.' <<	[18:33]
asciilifeform:	'perhaps, to the end of his days, valeriy bardin remained a soviet man -- it seems to me, that he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group. everyone. or nobody. we all once were like this. us. people from a destroyed country. and, perhaps, will be again. perhaps this was specifically the thing which was worth learning from valeriy bardin. when he was still there.'	[18:34]
mircea_popescu:	see ?	[18:35]
mircea_popescu:	epic fucking piece.	[18:35]
* asciilifeform	pulls out imaginary notebook and tried to predict, before eating rest of log, how mircea_popescu barfed	[18:35]
* mircea_popescu	waves at the moscow usg residentura.	[18:35]
asciilifeform:	ok, ate the log, but puzzled	[18:37]
asciilifeform:	what's in it for the rezidentura	[18:37]
* mircea_popescu	is also happy at how diana_coman 's code veers towards literate style. you've seen this phf ?	[18:37]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform the fate of the lost is that they continue at their level of skill.	[18:37]
asciilifeform:	i still dungetit, is there hoap	[18:37]
mircea_popescu:	kinda why lemures/spectra/etc were scary to teh romans.	[18:37]
asciilifeform:	it reads like a genuine obit by a genuine man of a genuine man..	[18:38]
mircea_popescu:	these are the spirits of the dead, unsatiated, restless, unburied.	[18:38]
mircea_popescu:	they attained no closure, yet can't go.	[18:38]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759922 << and yes it's plastered in spamola. confession : until today asciilifeform did not know there WAS a ru forbes	[18:38]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 22:34 mircea_popescu: especially fabuous as the "you may also be interested in" bullshit is liek "virtualnoe bezdele rabotodateli rasplachivayutsya za internet SERFING" under "karera i svoy biznes". AS FUCKING IF!	[18:38]
asciilifeform:	what's next, a ru nyt ? wapo?	[18:39]
asciilifeform:	radio phree europe!111	[18:39]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform how do you read "it seems to me, that he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group. everyone. or nobody. we all once were like this. us. people from a destroyed country" other than a) a retcon of history (soviet man EMINENTLY was never like this,. but like the opposite of this) and b) "please please please let there be no republc please" rendered in prolix sty	[18:39]
mircea_popescu:	le ?	[18:39]
asciilifeform:	i'ma let mircea_popescu guess	[18:40]
asciilifeform:	( spoiler: nope )	[18:40]
mircea_popescu:	forbes ru exists to lend credence to the empty notion that forbes is a thing, which is no different from the proposition best-bitcoin-mining-trading-info-near-you-australia.s3.amazonaws.com is a thing.	[18:40]
asciilifeform:	if it's a usg.op, it's to prop up the rest of the forbes liquishit with this eminently respectable piece.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu:	and the dollar is "quoted" in rubles to propose that anyone would ever want to buy some.	[18:41]
mircea_popescu:	and the piece is OF a respectable man, but not by a respectable man, though the quality of the masquerade is indeed high.	[18:41]
asciilifeform:	i dun see it. because, guesswat, asciilifeform is exactly same type of man .	[18:42]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform i seem to think parts of dead frog behave more convincingly than other parts.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu:	eg, the salted leg in moscow jumps!	[18:42]
phf:	zavalashin is another old timer, the piece in question is his only contribution to forbse	[18:42]
asciilifeform:	and i unzip and piss on the other type of man. the ones who tried to alchemize and monopolize the unix src, described in $article.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu:	but the point is not that.	[18:42]
mircea_popescu:	the point is really, "soviet man didn't know how to support a group" ?	[18:43]
mircea_popescu:	which soviet i never saw was this ?!	[18:43]
asciilifeform:	the point is apparently that the paragraph where item falls down for mircea_popescu , is where it... stands up for asciilifeform	[18:43]
mircea_popescu:	well then, explain this to me.	[18:44]
asciilifeform:	essence is, i think, that d00d did not charge-for-sunlight and didn't think much of people who tried.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu:	like, let's have an example of any item, mechanism, anything recognizably soviet that worked as described.	[18:44]
asciilifeform:	and this was respectable, and respected. it was ~ideal~ of 'sov man', not necessarily life.	[18:44]
mircea_popescu:	man at shop where they don't hjave meat said, "well, if there's not enough meat for the whole queue, i take no meat" ?	[18:44]
mircea_popescu:	did this occur anywhere ?	[18:44]
asciilifeform:	y'know, like http://btcbase.org/log/2014-04-25#643502 is idea.	[18:44]
a111:	Logged on 2014-04-25 20:09 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://www.stalingrad-battle.ru/images/stories/ris42.jpg	[18:44]
asciilifeform:	*ideal	[18:44]
mircea_popescu:	but this isn't in any sense what's said.	[18:45]
asciilifeform:	fughet about the meat counter and the Official claptrap.	[18:45]
asciilifeform:	it's a religious ideal.	[18:45]
phf:	there's soviets that read "ponedelnik nachinayetsa..." and took it to heart, they proped up the rest of the charade. that's the ideal soviet man, that products of intelligentsia parents like ascii or myself talk about. it is obviously a chimera, but it still has a mythical value	[18:45]
asciilifeform:	like the dervish.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu:	phf which is why this dude is trying to help forbes sell.	[18:45]
mircea_popescu:	it's what we expect to see, isn't it ? usg is specifically the empire of "there's a difference between what is and what you want to see, and we live out of selling that"	[18:46]
asciilifeform:	it's not an ideal of the office plankton, of the обыватель ( ~burgher ) mushmind, no. it is ideal of the man of science.	[18:46]
phf:	i suspect this dude doesn't have any kind of apropriate venue to publish an obituary that he expects to be read by a lot of people. that's sort of the point of obituary, is to get any random reddit man to scratch his head	[18:46]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform the ideal of the soviet man of science is that until such a time as every last soviet citizen can follow brin the elder, no brin the elder should speak ?	[18:46]
mircea_popescu:	no child left behind was the soviet ideal ? really ?	[18:46]
mircea_popescu:	i guess i should read less russian and more clintonian.	[18:46]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: there is no actual connection between your map and the territory. it's dust on yer lens.	[18:46]
mircea_popescu:	phf entirely not true.	[18:46]
mircea_popescu:	the point of an obituary is to satisfy the spirit of the departed.	[18:47]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform where ?	[18:47]
asciilifeform:	where 'no child left behind' even enters yer mind.	[18:47]
asciilifeform:	0 connection.	[18:47]
mircea_popescu:	phf by the time you write obituaries "istos plausus, cum popularibus civibus tribuerentur", you have already done the deed, and now work for forbes.	[18:48]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform what does "it seems to me, that he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group. everyone. or nobody." mean here in your reading ?	[18:48]
asciilifeform:	item ain't about socialist fungus robbing mircea_popescu's gold to pay iq80 scum to breed. item is about a man of science who 'acted from causes, not purposes' and did not think 'hey i can't monetize 'principia', i'd better not newtonate'	[18:49]
mircea_popescu:	consider specifically http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902	[18:49]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'	[18:49]
mircea_popescu:	does this meet your criteria for " he did not know how to do things that would be of use to him personally, or some particular group" ?	[18:49]
asciilifeform:	sure does. and i , and e.g. phf, are alive because of kurchatov. moar directly than from penicillin etc.	[18:50]
mircea_popescu:	(note that i ~can~ both follow and support the reading of the man's words that'd permit you to say "Yes" however it'd be very much a sopirla, and well distant from what "plain reading" delivers.)	[18:50]
mircea_popescu:	ie, the illiterate 20something reader will read something else.	[18:50]
asciilifeform:	now this i cannot touch, i have deeply nfi what sort of cockroaches are chittering in typical '20something reader'.	[18:51]
mircea_popescu:	but!	[18:51]
mircea_popescu:	think : kurchatov eminently supported a primitive republic AGAINST "everyone".	[18:52]
mircea_popescu:	what he did was IN SPITE of the politruk, not for the politruk.	[18:52]
asciilifeform:	nobody alive actually 'for everyone'.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu:	he created a partition over the statal space, and choose some bits.	[18:52]
asciilifeform:	nobody outside of psych ward, at any rate.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu:	yes, but this is directly contradicting the words.	[18:52]
mircea_popescu:	here, i have a soviet joke for you :	[18:52]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform was once director of insane asylum. moscow inspectors came to examine ivan bonapartii napoleonovich, a celebrated nutcase. ivan said "einstein is a jew, because his theories privilege the speed of light in preference of other speeds that are much more important to us" and asciilifeform brought ivan a cup of tea.	[18:54]
mircea_popescu:	at the inspector's puzzled query, asciilifeform responded "it's clear he meant tea rather than coffee by that request".	[18:54]
asciilifeform:	lol	[18:55]
mircea_popescu:	the story would work just as well but better with the coffee/tea switched, but i did it this way in memory of the master nikolay pushkin.	[18:55]
mircea_popescu:	now let's not make cluj cabbage of everything else too!	[18:55]
asciilifeform:	possibly the 'Всем.' will make moarsense in light of the sov mythos where, e.g., pygmies in the jungle still in the end will win from newton publishing 'principia', because one day They Too will want to learn mechanics and build railways and so forth.	[18:57]
mircea_popescu:	the argument is not that usian socialism is utterly and entirely disjunct from soviet socialism	[18:57]
mircea_popescu:	"in the absolute ideals spehre" or however formulated	[18:57]
mircea_popescu:	at the very least because, obviously, no two things man-made can be entirely disjunct thereby.	[18:57]
mircea_popescu:	nevertheless! the "genuine similarity" as one might in sufficient analysis passes unearth, is spurious when compared to the evident construction and its evident goals.	[18:58]
asciilifeform:	the argument , in asciilifeform's reading, is that bardin was a Troo Man Of Science (tm)(r) , liek the fella who starved in the seed collection in sieged leningrad. i.e. instead of going to sell soap and getrichquick(tm) in 'cooperatives', blackmarketeering, misc. adventurism, d00d sat and built up usenet node in su. collected unix src into a working whole, and did not try to gatekeeper. etc	[18:59]
mircea_popescu:	as i said, i can see this reading but it is entirely not what the text says.	[19:00]
mircea_popescu:	what, fellow could not have used his language to say what he meant, i am to reconstruct the dinosaur out of half tooth ?	[19:00]
* asciilifeform	wonders if mircea_popescu's reading is equally martian to, e.g., phf , as to asciilifeform	[19:00]
asciilifeform:	i suspect that mircea_popescu lacks the '#includes'	[19:00]
phf:	it is, hence my comment about "ponedelnik"	[19:00]
asciilifeform:	aha!!	[19:01]
mircea_popescu:	well, so it's martian, happens. not like it's mandatory or anything but might be informative. or not.	[19:01]
asciilifeform:	it slipped by me, ah	[19:01]
asciilifeform:	but phf has it , yes	[19:01]
phf:	but there's a point there, which is not necessarily about the man, but about the author. the selling forbes part, which i think is true. bulk of su intelligentsia went full "progressive" after the collapse	[19:02]
asciilifeform:	they also went, and to this day are, where the food bowl is.	[19:02]
asciilifeform:	like street animals.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu:	the other direct avenue, of course, is to say "text was a lot better as author submitted it, before forbes"ru" chiseled it into visible shape". which for all i know might even be true,	[19:02]
asciilifeform:	and like in any other, for that matter, country.	[19:02]
mircea_popescu:	god knows nobody has YET written a piece for the usg faux news outlets that survived braindamaging at time of packaging (and some truly eminent examples documented by various parties)	[19:03]
asciilifeform:	i dun even see this supposed forbes-massage.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform so then there's no substance to your disagreement, nor is the reading martian after all ?!	[19:03]
asciilifeform:	from asciilifeform's lens it looks entirely like what i would have written myself, about this man, if i were closer to $subject.	[19:03]
mircea_popescu:	really ?!	[19:04]
asciilifeform:	really.	[19:04]
mircea_popescu:	well now i wanna see this. pretend i'm dead and let's see three paragraphs.	[19:04]
asciilifeform:	nao for all i know this was done specifically to make asciilifeform et al think that 'ru forbes' is a thing.	[19:04]
* asciilifeform	realizes he ain't any good at obit	[19:05]
mircea_popescu:	but you spoke like one who had considered the matter of writing obits quite well ?!	[19:05]
asciilifeform:	try an' live a bit longer, folx!11	[19:05]
asciilifeform:	apparently i'ma 'chukcha-reader, not writer'	[19:05]
mircea_popescu:	it's one thing to say "if i were writing it i'd have written the same" when you wrote a few and considered how you'd write even more. but on the nude... ?	[19:06]
mircea_popescu:	am i actually the only one to have written any obituaries, incidentally ?	[19:06]
asciilifeform:	let's revise, 'i'd've like to have written the same.'	[19:07]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: i wrote one for mccarthy	[19:07]
asciilifeform:	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=498 << subj.	[19:07]
mircea_popescu:	it should perhaps be pointed out that while things like grocery lists, love letters, blog articles, ransom notes at all one might "should" write, it is the obituary which stands alone among all the literary forms as the only piece man must, eventually but absolutely MUST write.	[19:08]
* asciilifeform	won't disagree.	[19:09]
asciilifeform:	^ even includes link to another Troo Sov. 'Did Not Sell Soap But Starved While Making Worthwhile Things' (tm) d00d	[19:11]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform how come your above item fails to point out the obvious, "he was dedicated to the supremacy of white man, and his enslavement of the entire world and nature itself to his own tastes and inclinations" ?	[19:12]
asciilifeform:	imho it did not need pointing, any moar than 2+2=4	[19:13]
asciilifeform:	i did not , then, have pygmy readers.	[19:13]
asciilifeform:	afaik.	[19:13]
asciilifeform:	prolly still dont	[19:13]
mircea_popescu:	but "Мы все когда-то были такими. Мы." did ?	[19:14]
asciilifeform:	this Мы has that brotherhood-of-civilized-men baked into it.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu:	how come the arcane "you're missing the includes" need not be mentioned in one piece but was mentioned in the other and this gives you no pause in the "that's how i'd have done" ?	[19:14]
mircea_popescu:	you evidently did not do the same ?	[19:14]
asciilifeform:	sorta how when asciilifeform switches on his console in the morning, he does not think 'but what will cockroaches think'	[19:14]
asciilifeform:	it just dun enter me head.	[19:14]
mircea_popescu:	you understand statement is the first process in the dissolution of taboo and the de-fanging of belief ?	[19:15]
mircea_popescu:	one item is stated the other item is not stated. does this belie anything about the relative situations of beliefs ?	[19:15]
asciilifeform:	right, i've nuffin against russel&whitehead killing 8kg of tree to show how 1+1 makes 2	[19:15]
asciilifeform:	for that matter, what's ffa, lol	[19:15]
asciilifeform:	but will point out that most mathematical works do not reprint r&w's 1+1 ...	[19:15]
asciilifeform:	they dunneed to.	[19:16]
* asciilifeform	rereading oldies, e.g. his response to a circa-2011 gabriel_laddel , http://www.loper-os.org/?p=498&cpage=1#comment-1812	[19:19]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759898 << in a sane gossiptron, nobody'd be keeping bastard blocks around to begin with, and the problem would not even be formulatable, 'what do you mean, out of order, everybody's got an ordered array of blocks, some people simply longer one than others, let's all visit'em'	[19:24]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 22:16 mircea_popescu: works ok for eg torrents, where all data is needed once in no particular order, but blockchain is not torrent.	[19:24]
asciilifeform:	the intrinsic difficulty of a trbtron's job is more or less 100% in dealing-with-prb.	[19:25]
asciilifeform:	prb is a bug (tm)(r) !!	[19:25]
asciilifeform:	( and , consider, if mining were not also a bug, who would waste any time attempting to converse with prbtrons ? )	[19:26]
asciilifeform:	and a not-insignificant chunk of the work one sees in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=stable , had to happen on account of 'and we still have to talk to prb somehow...'	[19:28]
asciilifeform:	( in particular the orphanages amputations. good chunk of bandwidth is TO THIS. DAY. wasted , by prbtrons throwing their liquishit at trbtron )	[19:29]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759889 << i had this notion that he happened by reading the l0gz, not asciilifeform's www. but could be wrong.	[19:29]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 22:11 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759720 << nah, apeloyee character also from there iirc.	[19:29]
asciilifeform:	in other noose, zoolag has 21 peers, and has been at the bleeding tip of the spear continuously ( at least through the lens of asciilifeform's hand-cranked observatory gear) since getting there.	[19:32]
mod6:	cool	[19:33]
asciilifeform:	nao, if we reintroduce checkpoints ( SANE checkpoints : i.e. keccak-of-whole-block-bitwise, rather than merkleism and sha2 and pgp-signed config eaten at boot ) we can have nodes that sync from empty hdd to full in <1day ...	[19:35]
shinohai:	^	[19:35]
asciilifeform:	( because they don't be sitting for 30sec to 6min per block grunting ecdsa )	[19:36]
asciilifeform:	*won't be	[19:36]
asciilifeform:	theoretically could even have a 'actually do the full-bore-verifications in background AFTER sync' knob.	[19:37]
asciilifeform:	imho this is aesthetically displeasing but inevitable, eventually it'll be this or copying disks, sync-from-empty-space will be impractical in human timeframe	[19:37]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760097 << if doing that, correct thing is to justr copy over the official-chain	[19:38]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 00:36 asciilifeform: ( because they don't be sitting for 30sec to 6min per block grunting ecdsa )	[19:38]
asciilifeform:	right but really oughta formalize it, rather than ad-hoc	[19:39]
mircea_popescu:	not so sure.	[19:39]
asciilifeform:	and let there be such a thing as , e.g., viral-payload-node-that-still-gets-correct-blox-but-dun-need-to-carry-200GB	[19:39]
asciilifeform:	incidentally at one time asciilifeform made and signed a block hash manifest. but cannot find in the logz...	[19:40]
asciilifeform:	where is it.	[19:40]
asciilifeform:	was it a dream..?	[19:40]
mircea_popescu:	o shit there it is, navrozov moment!	[19:42]
mircea_popescu:	i was looking for this the other day.	[19:42]
asciilifeform:	i will also add, it is not wholly useless to ~watch~ who is sending over Troo Blox and who -- somethingleses	[19:42]
asciilifeform:	*somethingelses	[19:42]
asciilifeform:	and for that, want to have TrooManifest.	[19:42]
mircea_popescu:	true	[19:42]
asciilifeform:	and yes i grasp that this is a kind of usurpation. but given http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759658, !	[19:43]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-28 16:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform republic has strength to enforce dunnit ?	[19:43]
asciilifeform:	oh hah, while digging, found https://archive.is/gB5hg << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-07#1123345 , entirely-unrelated archaeological item that somebody-or-other had asked for some time this year...	[19:48]
a111:	Logged on 2015-05-07 00:09 asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/0M8QV5T.txt << signed manifest (by me)	[19:48]
mircea_popescu:	let us rescue some piece into the logs : ugh	[19:48]
mircea_popescu:	this isn't fucking it.	[19:48]
asciilifeform:	definitely not	[19:48]
mircea_popescu:	where the fuck is that piece commenting on how soviet citizens all sooner or later wake up to the disney quality of their state ?	[19:48]
asciilifeform:	hmmm	[19:49]
asciilifeform:	!#s volokh	[19:49]
a111:	7 results for "volokh", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=volokh	[19:49]
asciilifeform:	iirc it was him	[19:49]
mircea_popescu:	hm	[19:49]
mircea_popescu:	i thought it was an actualy russian.	[19:50]
asciilifeform:	he was	[19:50]
mircea_popescu:	at washington post ?	[19:50]
asciilifeform:	( emphasis on past tense )	[19:50]
asciilifeform:	iirc it is his younger brother who is a major-league pantsuitist nao	[19:50]
asciilifeform:	'not shakespeare, the other shakespeare'	[19:50]
asciilifeform:	https://archive.is/Et3G << that volokh.	[19:52]
asciilifeform:	(not the desired piece tho, yet...)	[19:52]
asciilifeform:	oh hah it was the brother : http://volokh.com/2010/04/30/on-a-bus-in-kiev/	[19:54]
asciilifeform:	^ mircea_popescu	[19:54]
asciilifeform:	possibly this is it.	[19:54]
asciilifeform:	written, apparently, before d00d went quisling.	[19:55]
asciilifeform:	( at one point there were a 'volokh brothers' www, and fairly respectable imho . )	[19:55]
asciilifeform:	( in re checkpoints, pertinent thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-28#1180510 and i was quite certain that some time then i posted hashes... )	[19:57]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-28 19:14 mircea_popescu: the entire idea of what we are building here is NODE HIERARCHY.	[19:57]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180868 << hey ben_vulpes , does yer box do this ?	[19:59]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-29 02:31 asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody who wants can now easily serve http://yourthing/blocks/x	[19:59]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180935 << did i only ~think~ of it, but did not do..?	[19:59]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-29 02:56 asciilifeform: i sorta want to start doing this thing where we for blocks 0 ... n, sha512sum block_n \| gpg ...	[19:59]
asciilifeform:	>>>> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-29#1180989 <<<< ding	[20:00]
a111:	Logged on 2015-06-29 04:51 asciilifeform: later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/readme_s.txt http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz.sig	[20:00]
asciilifeform:	here they are.	[20:00]
asciilifeform:	i.e. 'We have now the sha512 checksums of all blocks loaded by yours truly from mircea_popescu's machine on June 28 - 29, 2015. This is posted here as a permanent record in light of a certain conversation [2] concerning possible shitgnomatic shenanigans.'	[20:00]
esthlos:	phf: a little birdie told me you are working on a diff replacement. have you made significant progress?	[20:19]
phf:	esthlos: got gnudiff down to 6149 loc from 300407, added shasum to it, as of now it can do http://archive.is/5WxUZ	[20:34]
phf:	i took a little break to put it into CWEB so i can print it and read it (cutting process was mostly mechanic, so now i need to actually grok some of the things it does), but that turned out to be a pita	[20:36]
esthlos:	300K loc????	[20:39]
phf:	well 200k, rest is whitespace and comments	[20:43]
esthlos:	fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest	[20:44]
phf:	original figure, i believe was wc -l on everything, i refined the loc mesasure	[20:44]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/binblocks/0.bin	[20:45]
asciilifeform:	ooh neat	[20:45]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes did this already exist, or new today	[20:45]
ben_vulpes:	they're not all there, as that's the directory they get dumped into after mimisbrunnr is asked for them the first time	[20:45]
ben_vulpes:	symlink is new as of today	[20:45]
asciilifeform:	neato	[20:49]
phf:	esthlos: what do you mean by transparently?	[20:54]
esthlos:	phf: vaguely, that the code maps to the actual problem with no extraneous complexity, in an easily readable way	[21:09]
phf:	aah, hmm	[21:09]
esthlos:	the program should be a good substitute for reading the paper directly	[21:11]
phf:	well, the context of what i'm trying to do is in the logs. specifically mcilroy diffing implementation is not necessarily the problem (relevant bits of gnudiff are reducable to maybe 500-1000 loc)	[21:11]
phf:	what i'm trying to do is not so much a rewrite, as first an ascii style cut of relevant bits, to preserve backwards compatability with current patches, and then augmentation to support various operations that were discussed in logs, that are more about file management than they are about diffing	[21:14]
phf:	what you have on top of original paper is unified diff format and the handling of multiple files in a single patch. (that's where you run into the bulk of extra code things like sorting directory is simply unpleasant to do in C)	[21:16]
phf:	this follows ascii's pattern of trying to bend existing tools to our needs, before we know enough to do a greenfield rewrite. there's a lot of ideas floating around what v is supposed to do. a clean rewrite of mcilroy could serve as a basis for further work, but you should perhaps follow discussion in the logs on the subject to get the full scope of the problem	[21:30]
esthlos:	phf: alright, I will have to read up. my practice v implementation will be in CL, and I was thinking of implementing mcilroy for educational purposes. if such an implementation sounds useful, let me know	[21:45]
phf:	please do, it would be useful as a reference, but also for me specifically: btcbase.org/patch is written in common lisp, but it can only eat vpatches, not spit them out, so a mcilroy would be a solid addition	[21:48]
phf:	http://btcbase.org/patches that is	[21:49]
esthlos:	excellent. also, I feel your pain. every day I write in C, I swear I lose an iq point	[21:51]
phf:	that would be a very gruesome science fiction narrative, if that was actually the case. a kind of strugatsky's roadside picnic :>	[21:57]
esthlos:	it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand	[21:57]
phf:	but i actually really want to learn to spit out elegant C like knuth, djb or rob pike	[21:58]
phf:	i mean, if you read norvig's python snippets you can clearly see they are written by a very experienced lispers. you literally never see python like that in the wild, but yet there it is.	[21:59]
esthlos:	elegant C exists, but the limits of the language the complexity it can handle without exploding into incomprehensibility.	[22:02]
esthlos:	*caps the complexity	[22:02]
esthlos:	certainly I can't write elegant C tho	[22:03]
esthlos:	even with small C projects I start to panic when I realise I don't know how it works anymore	[22:05]
phf:	i had that experience when i tried implementing an older spec of gossipd. i wrote it in C, actually CWEB, but i wasn't doing literate programming right, and after a while the whole thing became overwhelming.	[22:08]
phf:	but then i can also understand the whole "back in my day" sentiment. common lisp certainly lets you write ~very sloppy~ code and get away with it :>	[22:09]
asciilifeform:	in other non-news, ben_vulpes yer ircbot thing dun work with znc. for the obvious reason of containing magicstring-expectation liquishit.	[22:28]
asciilifeform:	i wasted hours.	[22:28]
phf:	asciilifeform: that would be the case with trinque's bot too	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	aha.	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	!!up pehbot	[22:30]
deedbot:	pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.	[22:30]
phf:	thing expects a complicated challenge response state machine to happen	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: help	[22:30]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .2.2+[=]#	[22:30]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: _	[22:30]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 0: Stack Underflow!	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	etc.	[22:30]
phf:	hah!	[22:30]
asciilifeform:	it lives inside a slime atm. i'ma leave it up for a spell, in case anybody wants to play.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu:	pretty cool.	[22:31]
asciilifeform:	try it	[22:31]
phf:	pehbot: .123'#4'#	[22:31]
pehbot:	phf: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Stack Underflow!	[22:31]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot .2.0-[=]#	[22:32]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: .2.0-[=]#	[22:32]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002	[22:32]
phf:	pehbot: .123'#	[22:32]
pehbot:	phf: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Stack Underflow!	[22:32]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: .2.17^[=]#	[22:32]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000015	[22:32]
phf:	ascii: isn't ' a dup?	[22:33]
mircea_popescu:	um	[22:33]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: .11![=]#	[22:33]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000011	[22:33]
asciilifeform:	phf: nope.	[22:33]
asciilifeform:	it's a swap , phf	[22:33]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: .123456789.987654321*[=]#	[22:33]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000987654321	[22:33]
asciilifeform:	you read ch4 , neh	[22:33]
phf:	yeah, i forgot :>	[22:33]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: .123456789.987654321+[=]#	[22:34]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000AAAAAAAAA	[22:34]
phf:	oh it's a swap	[22:34]
mircea_popescu:	ahem	[22:34]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: .123456789.987654321-[=]#	[22:34]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF79BE02468	[22:34]
phf:	pehbot: .123"#4#	[22:34]
pehbot:	phf: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001230000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001234	[22:34]
mircea_popescu:	is this actually correct ?	[22:34]
asciilifeform:	in fact it is: it strips newlines	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	on output	[22:35]
mircea_popescu:	oh oh	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	yea this is a draft	[22:35]
mircea_popescu:	and F notation for negative ?	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	nope	[22:35]
mod6:	this is pretty cool lol	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	no negatives !!!!	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	they dun exist in yer cpu either	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	integer arithm	[22:35]
mircea_popescu:	mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF79BE02468 <	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: ..1-#	[22:35]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	^ consider.	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	just like yer cpu.	[22:35]
mircea_popescu:	shouldn't it eggog ?	[22:35]
asciilifeform:	no.	[22:35]
phf:	penbot: .~	[22:36]
asciilifeform:	this is fundamental. it's finitefield arithm.	[22:36]
phf:	pehbot: .~	[22:36]
pehbot:	phf:	[22:36]
mircea_popescu:	shouldn't it eggog on .. also ?	[22:36]
asciilifeform:	no, why ?	[22:36]
phf:	pehbot: .~#	[22:36]
pehbot:	phf: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF	[22:36]
mircea_popescu:	because .. is not .0.	[22:36]
asciilifeform:	i can tell who read ch4 and who not!111	[22:36]
asciilifeform:	read ch4 folx.	[22:36]
phf:	pehbot: Q	[22:36]
pehbot:	phf:	[22:36]
phf:	pehbot: .2.2+	[22:37]
pehbot:	phf:	[22:37]
phf:	err	[22:37]
phf:	pehbot: .2.2+#	[22:37]
pehbot:	phf: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004	[22:37]
phf:	pehbot: .1.2.3.4.5Q	[22:37]
pehbot:	phf: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000050000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000004000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001	[22:37]
phf:	this is cool :>	[22:37]
asciilifeform:	http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/pehbot.jpg << for posterity.	[22:38]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760138 << absolutely not it, no.	[22:39]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 00:54 asciilifeform: possibly this is it.	[22:39]
phf:	asciilifeform: i like the . trick by the way, is there prior art to it?	[22:39]
asciilifeform:	phf: which trick	[22:40]
ben_vulpes:	asciilifeform: i am not going to take responsibility for your not reading the connection routines. it's plain as day the thing expects magic strings.	[22:40]
ben_vulpes:	when i booted one somehow i did not waste hours.	[22:40]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes: somehow didn't click, at first, the depth to which it was a kludge, lol	[22:40]
phf:	well, . puts a zero and the 1-9A-F mutates the top, so you don't have to have state in the parser	[22:40]
asciilifeform:	i'ma have to make a znctronic clone	[22:40]
asciilifeform:	phf: i came up with it in 2016 when wrote the orig, unpublished mpitronic 'p'	[22:41]
asciilifeform:	( ffacalc, in case anyone has illusions , is not p. not yet in ch4 anyway ! )	[22:41]
ben_vulpes:	freenode is the kludge im not going to sink time into making *tronic bot that doesn't do auth itself because freenode doesn't like your host.	[22:42]
asciilifeform:	ben_vulpes:fair'nuff	[22:42]
phf:	i feel like you chould email it to chuck moore, he'll get a kick out of it "saves 25 bits on my greenarray cluster!"	[22:42]
asciilifeform:	lol	[22:42]
* mircea_popescu	is willing to bet chuck moore is too dumb to figure this out.	[22:42]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .0{[foo]}{[bar]}	[22:42]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: bar	[22:42]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .1{[foo]}{[bar]}	[22:42]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: foo	[22:42]
mircea_popescu:	email in whatevever manner you please.	[22:42]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .1.2##	[22:43]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001	[22:43]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .1.2'##	[22:43]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002	[22:43]
phf:	though come to think of it, in colorforth it'll make things more expensive (since now each digit basically costs a header-and-a-word's-worth)	[22:43]
asciilifeform:	apologies to folx reading l0g, barfing...	[22:43]
mircea_popescu:	they'll live.	[22:43]
asciilifeform:	i dun expect pehbot to become perma-resident	[22:44]
phf:	didn't we have a candi session!	[22:44]
mod6:	i kinda like this thing, and while your loper posts are fresh, i'd like it hang for a bit.	[22:44]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .1{[foo]}{ .0{[nested]}{[loops]}_ [work in p] }	[22:45]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: foo	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .0{[foo]}{ .0{[nested]}{[loops]}_ [work in p] }	[22:45]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: loopswork in p	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .0{[foo]}{ .1{[nested]}{[loops]}_ [work in p] }	[22:45]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: nestedwork in p	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	etc.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760156 << certainly.	[22:45]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 01:44 esthlos: fwiw I read McIlroy's paper and would be willing to implement it _transparently_, if there's interest	[22:45]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform other than the wrong control sequence / your utter ignoring of that whole mechanism, the bot is compliant, spits out one line per command, can sit forever.	[22:45]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: atm it uses speak-when-voiced-and-spoken-to trigger	[22:46]
asciilifeform:	can make it whateveryalike	[22:46]
asciilifeform:	let's eggog 1moar:	[22:46]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: ................................	[22:46]
pehbot:	asciilifeform:	[22:46]
asciilifeform:	pehbot: .................................	[22:46]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 32: Stack Overflow!	[22:46]
mircea_popescu:	sure, i'll be happy to look up what the thing should be in preference of your doing it. lessee.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu:	!A asciilifeform	[22:47]
mircea_popescu:	works out well.	[22:47]
asciilifeform:	lesseee:	[22:47]
phf:	mircea_popescu: is there any reason there's no right shift in p? or there's some way to do it with what's there?	[22:47]
phf:	err, in calc rather	[22:47]
asciilifeform:	!A [foo]	[22:47]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: foo	[22:47]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: done.	[22:47]
asciilifeform:	phf: ch5!!	[22:48]
mircea_popescu:	pehbot: [not yet]	[22:48]
mircea_popescu:	o hey. nice.	[22:48]
asciilifeform:	!A [not yet]	[22:48]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: not yet	[22:48]
mircea_popescu:	cool. ty.	[22:48]
mircea_popescu:	phf i dun think there is any fundamental reason no	[22:48]
phf:	cause you can do a ghetto left shift with 000 :>	[22:48]
mircea_popescu:	pete_dushenski << add pehbot to the list plox.	[22:49]
phf:	mircea_popescu: well, i thought he's got some minimalist tendencies, like left shift is done with a bunch of 0's and right shift is done with a combination of twig and rock	[22:49]
asciilifeform:	!A [☭☭☭☭☭☭☭some actual text ☭☭☭☭☭]	[22:49]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: some actual text	[22:49]
mircea_popescu:	asciilifeform !A help would be nice once you get around to it.	[22:49]
asciilifeform:	!A help	[22:49]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.	[22:49]
phf:	!A [eg: ].1"#000#	[22:49]
pehbot:	phf: eg: 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000	[22:49]
phf:	!A [or rather ].1"#[ ]000#	[22:50]
pehbot:	phf: or rather 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001000	[22:50]
asciilifeform:	phf: i'ma tell you a seekrit : it'll be R and L, ( 2 - 1 ) in forthological notation	[22:50]
phf:	yeah, that makes sense	[22:50]
asciilifeform:	mega-surprise	[22:50]
asciilifeform:	!A [this prints (but this is a comment) some text]	[22:51]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: this prints (but this is a comment) some text	[22:51]
asciilifeform:	ah lol!	[22:51]
asciilifeform:	!A [this prints some text] (but this is a comment)	[22:51]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: this prints some text	[22:51]
* asciilifeform	did this deliberately, and then forgot -- but this is correct precedence	[22:51]
mircea_popescu:	cool deal.	[22:52]
asciilifeform:	!A (the point of [someshit] is to output valid pcode like) [.1.2+#[=]]	[22:52]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: .1.2+#[=]	[22:52]
asciilifeform:	!A .1.2+#[=]	[22:53]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003=	[22:53]
mircea_popescu:	and is it getting updated in step with the ffa publishings ?	[22:53]
asciilifeform:	!A ..1-O	[22:53]
pehbot:	asciilifeform:	[22:53]
asciilifeform:	err	[22:53]
asciilifeform:	!A ..1-O#	[22:53]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001	[22:53]
asciilifeform:	!A ..0-O#	[22:53]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000	[22:53]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: of course.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu:	nice. will make a great tool i expect, can reference bot in examples etc.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu:	integration ftw.	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	aha.	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	!A .~#	[22:54]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	!A .A.B.0U#	[22:54]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	!A .A.B.1U#	[22:54]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	!A .2.1^#	[22:54]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000003	[22:54]
asciilifeform:	!A .3.1^#	[22:55]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002	[22:55]
mircea_popescu:	!A .F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000A.F00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000B-[=]#	[22:55]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: =FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF	[22:55]
mircea_popescu:	is it also named for REN TV ?	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	'Q' is pretty useless in the bot, given what happens to whitespaces. i'ma have to adjust the filter.	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	what's 'ren tv'	[22:56]
mircea_popescu:	some tv station	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	never heard of it	[22:56]
asciilifeform:	!A [[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]	[22:57]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: [[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]	[22:57]
asciilifeform:	!A [[]]	[22:57]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: []	[22:57]
mod6:	:]	[22:57]
asciilifeform:	!A [[]]]	[22:57]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: EGGOG: Pos: 4: Mismatched close-quote bracket !	[22:57]
phf:	asciilifeform: hey when you adjust the filters, can you make sure manual spacing still works?	[22:57]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1656734 << delivered!1111	[22:58]
a111:	Logged on 2017-05-16 01:36 asciilifeform: in other near-term lulz, a 'pbot' is in the worx, so that folx can play with various input->output pairs in-chan	[22:58]
mircea_popescu:	made http://trilema.com/2009/iluzionistul-merita-vazut/#selection-49.16-49.32	[22:58]
asciilifeform:	phf: issue for 'Q' strictly	[22:58]
mircea_popescu:	theres this whole pile of 2nd world "Cinema" made by 30second ad people.	[22:58]
phf:	!A .1.1[foo ]#[=]#	[22:58]
pehbot:	phf: foo 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001	[22:58]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: nope, never saw	[22:59]
phf:	test !A .1.1##	[22:59]
mircea_popescu:	it's actually not a bad film.	[22:59]
* asciilifeform	puts on list	[22:59]
mircea_popescu:	!!up pehbot	[23:00]
deedbot:	pehbot voiced for 30 minutes.	[23:00]
asciilifeform:	!A .1.2<#	[23:01]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001	[23:01]
asciilifeform:	!A .2.1<#	[23:02]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000	[23:02]
asciilifeform:	!A .1.2>#	[23:02]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000	[23:02]
asciilifeform:	!A .2.1>#	[23:02]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001	[23:02]
asciilifeform:	i think this covers errything.	[23:02]
mircea_popescu:	make the width settable btw ?	[23:02]
mircea_popescu:	!A help	[23:02]
pehbot:	mircea_popescu: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.	[23:02]
asciilifeform:	mircea_popescu: this is entirely doable but irc msg bounds makes it not particularly useful	[23:02]
mircea_popescu:	well, could be "up to 16k" or somesuch.	[23:03]
asciilifeform:	pehbot largely lives as a toy / ch4 exam.	[23:03]
mircea_popescu:	whjatever fits a line	[23:03]
mircea_popescu:	but sure.	[23:03]
asciilifeform:	line dun fit much, is the prob.	[23:03]
ben_vulpes:	what i did for candi was to link a paste	[23:03]
mircea_popescu:	^	[23:04]
asciilifeform:	but why not see empirically:	[23:04]
asciilifeform:	!A help	[23:04]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 4096 and Height to 32.	[23:04]
asciilifeform:	!A .~#	[23:04]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF	[23:04]
mircea_popescu:	the paste idea is pretty good, in that it takes the (unavoidable, btw) line issue away entirely.	[23:04]
phf:	the nick is going to make a difference, it's 250 characters by the way	[23:04]
asciilifeform:	it's cut	[23:04]
asciilifeform:	that's a 1672-bit num	[23:04]
mircea_popescu:	yeah it's 4000 max	[23:05]
phf:	asciilifeform: yes, but it's going to be shorter for mp	[23:05]
asciilifeform:	!A help	[23:05]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: I am PehBot. See also http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2051 . My Width is currently fixed to 256 and Height to 32.	[23:05]
asciilifeform:	^ put back	[23:05]
asciilifeform:	phf: aha!!	[23:05]
mircea_popescu:	should be good enough as it is anyway	[23:05]
phf:	!A g/2017-12-29#1760407	[23:05]
asciilifeform:	good enuff for what it was madefor.	[23:05]
pehbot:	phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760407	[23:05]
mircea_popescu:	the advantage of no paste is not needing the click	[23:05]
mircea_popescu:	phf nice.	[23:05]
phf:	yeah, it's also highlighted as bot on btcbase	[23:06]
asciilifeform:	!A [you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orc☭gra☭ms get dropped]	[23:06]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orcgrams get dropped	[23:06]
asciilifeform:	!A ([you can put (whatever) [you] {want} here but orc☭gra☭ms get dropped] comments) [take precedence over []]	[23:07]
pehbot:	asciilifeform: take precedence over []	[23:07]
asciilifeform:	at some point i'ma put the thing on sumthing that ain't a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760270	[23:08]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 03:38 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/pehbot.jpg << for posterity.	[23:08]
asciilifeform:	for nao, will leave it up for another hr or so in case anyone wants to play.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu:	inferior lisp lmao	[23:09]
asciilifeform:	slimologicalterm.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu:	btw, you are aware the canticle is just history-of-cluny with the serials (and most of the good stuff) shaved off ?	[23:11]
asciilifeform:	noshit.jpg	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	kk	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	"what if the northern part of new world was actually important and like, events happened here and shit ?~!?!?"	[23:11]
mircea_popescu:	the ~only preoccupation of us aspiring writers since day 0	[23:11]
asciilifeform:	presumably the folx who sailed, thought it'd amount to sumthing.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu:	not really, they just went for the cunt.	[23:12]
mircea_popescu:	"for lucre the briton..."	[23:12]
* asciilifeform	brb,meat	[23:12]
phf:	mircea_popescu: i'm not, what is that?	[23:13]
mircea_popescu:	phf the barbaric lands were slowly recivilised after the fall of the roman empire. the effort centered around this fortified monastery in gaul, and its satellites	[23:13]
mircea_popescu:	(gaul was, in the estimation of the romans themselves, the better part of the empire, which is why most moved there)	[23:14]
phf:	oh so it's the history of cluny, rather than "The History of Cluny"	[23:19]
mircea_popescu:	i don't follow the distinction ?	[23:20]
phf:	one is an accumulation of knowledge on the subject of history in your head, the other one is a written book of that title, that one, if one were so inclined, could track down and read :)	[23:21]
mircea_popescu:	ah. sadly, accumulation.	[23:21]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, berno was the name of the original leibowitz	[23:21]
mircea_popescu:	but if you feel like the reading, about ~any history of the benedictine order in the early history of europe (say 10th and 11th centuries) should prove an informative read.	[23:22]
phf:	neat	[23:23]
mircea_popescu:	there is A REASON "european civilisation" bla bla, and that reason is the remarkable stability introduced through unlikely means. a sort of humour.	[23:23]
phf:	saint asciilifeform right there http://www.uni-muenster.de/imperia/md/images/fruehmittelalter/mon-cl.jpg	[23:25]
mircea_popescu:	ahahaha	[23:26]
mircea_popescu:	should prolly paste his inferior lisp screencap in that early mac screen.	[23:26]
mircea_popescu:	anyway, the important part in the actual history is that the abbey was de facto sovereign ~deliberately~, set up that way by the duke on purpose. i dun recall exactly the us retcon, but it was accidental if memory serves ? which is already a reduction, in my view.	[23:28]
mircea_popescu:	still, the whole reason for the (false, by the way) pretense to eg http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1757073 carried over to this very day was that "the trick worked for cluny", ten centuries ago. and so following.	[23:29]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-22 19:01 mircea_popescu: do they even give out tenures anymore ?	[23:29]
phf:	it's not the case for canticle (where it is sort of accidental, in a sense that "everything's so fucked that nobody cares, but when they do we have Electric Light!")	[23:31]
mircea_popescu:	right.	[23:31]
mircea_popescu:	in plain terms of the literary quality of the story, this approach seems to me weaker.	[23:32]
phf:	but in all the derivative work soveirgnty is deliberate	[23:32]
mircea_popescu:	ah ?	[23:32]
* mircea_popescu	not expert in anglo sf whatsoever.	[23:32]
phf:	well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is	[23:32]
mircea_popescu:	aite.	[23:33]
mircea_popescu:	i expect the way these generally work is, starved copywriter threw some shit together while hungover. since it was bought he put a little more work into it later on.	[23:33]
mircea_popescu:	a sorta miller-nin "payability test" if you will.	[23:33]
phf:	i sort of assumed (and that was sometimes topic of these derivative works) that mandate doesn't last more then a generation or two	[23:35]
mircea_popescu:	what is here meant by mandate ?	[23:35]
phf:	erm, never mind, "permission for sovereignty" , heh	[23:37]
mircea_popescu:	without dispute it lasted for at least... hm, i think there's ten between berno and peter ?	[23:37]
mircea_popescu:	in any case, a good few generations.	[23:37]
mircea_popescu:	the item was only formally sacked by the revolution.	[23:38]
phf:	that's better track record than templars :>	[23:38]
mircea_popescu:	it is.	[23:38]
mircea_popescu:	they were major factor in why there even IS a papacy in the first place, though.	[23:38]
mircea_popescu:	templars -- not.	[23:38]
mircea_popescu:	diana_coman "in next chapter" < add "the"	[23:45]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760175 << musta started way the fuck up there then huh :D	[23:49]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 02:51 esthlos: excellent. also, I feel your pain. every day I write in C, I swear I lose an iq point	[23:49]
mircea_popescu:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760177 << funny, im pretty sure this was in the logs. as a naggum quote.	[23:50]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 02:57 esthlos: it seems specifically designed to reduce the intelligence of the programmer to what a manager can understand	[23:50]
mircea_popescu:	but, do not give managers a black eye. i for one often can't understand c.	[23:50]
asciilifeform:	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760494 << 'anathem' is prolly the 1 'sf' item written in usa in past 20-30y worth taking home	[23:59]
a111:	Logged on 2017-12-29 04:32 phf: well, glass bead game is not really derivative, but Anathem that we often mention here with ascii is	[23:59]

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