Forum logs for 25 Mar 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu

ThickAsThieves	and note the number you expect to get, in contrast with the number you are getting	[00:00]
deadweasel	user can specify how much it's weighted	[00:00]
peterl	well, I seem to remember people complaining that late bets would lose money?	[00:00]
deadweasel	or starting weight	[00:00]
ThickAsThieves	still the case	[00:00]
ThickAsThieves	significant weight disparity can result in loss	[00:00]
ThickAsThieves	even on a winning bet	[00:00]
*	nubbins` has quit (Quit: quit)	[00:00]
deadweasel	in fact: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-as-replacement-for-the-electoral-system/	[00:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-]	[00:01]
peterl	yeah, but you can only go down to 99%	[00:01]
mike_c	http://bitbet.us/faq/#140 explains how you can lose money on a bet.	[00:01]
ozbot	FAQ BitBet	[00:01]
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deadweasel	ozbot should spam the channel with that at least once a day. boom, no more support.	[00:01]
peterl	maybe I was just confused before?	[00:01]
deadweasel	or mpexbot or assbot or a fuckingbot	[00:01]
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ThickAsThieves	peterl, you still havent clarified whether there are ever was a problem or misunderstanding	[00:02]
peterl	yeah, that link is what I was looking at. I seem to remember it being worded differently in the past. Probly I was just confused before.	[00:02]
ThickAsThieves	-are	[00:02]
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ThickAsThieves	maximum amount of loss on a winning bet is 100%	[00:03]
ThickAsThieves	if you send late ;)	[00:03]
*	nubbins` (~leel@stjhnf0148w-142134196038.dhcp-dynamic.FibreOp.nl.bellaliant.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[00:04]
peterl	well, yeah, but that is a whole different issue entirely	[00:04]
deadweasel	bitbet, a neverending source of infotainment	[00:05]
jurov	http://bitbet.us/bet/596/btc-difficulty-to-increase-by-less-than-10/ peterl here you can see it	[00:05]
ozbot	BitBet - BTC difficulty to increase by less than 10%	[00:05]
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jurov	the weight 59/100000 is less than 1% bitbet fee , hence No loses	[00:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 98 @ 0.00299999 = 0.294 BTC [+] {2}	[00:08]
benkay	;;later tell blackwhite so tell me sir what was your best source of dealflow?	[00:13]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[00:13]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00095198 = 20.0392 BTC [+] {2}	[00:14]
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radan	what are some good beds to bid on	[00:31]
deadweasel	tempurpedic	[00:31]
benkay	i prefer bunks	[00:31]
cazalla	beat me :	[00:31]
benkay	surely you meant to say "bed me", cazalla.	[00:31]
*	deadweasel beats cazalla	[00:31]
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cazalla	ha	[00:31]
benkay	cazalla's still looking for dat buttsecks	[00:31]
*	deadweasel beds cazalla	[00:32]
deadweasel	which means you got beaten twice	[00:32]
radan	cazalla, are you a girl	[00:32]
cazalla	no, what would make you think that	[00:32]
jurov	i bed your pardon?	[00:32]
nubbins`	http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2014/	[00:33]
ozbot	BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014	[00:33]
cazalla	(i was going to say yes)	[00:33]
radan	I knew a girl named caz	[00:33]
deadweasel	yo, i heard you like beds in yo bids on yo bitbet!	[00:33]
radan	so I was wondering	[00:33]
deadweasel	cas? cassie?	[00:33]
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cazalla	it's from a book	[00:33]
deadweasel	wat book	[00:34]
cazalla	a pirate book, forget the name	[00:35]
radan	http://bitbet.us/bet/786/bitcoin-to-surpass-berkshire-as-an-investment/	[00:36]
ozbot	BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment	[00:36]
deadweasel	ass-pirates 12, the plundering?	[00:36]
mike_c	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Latitudes	[00:36]
ozbot	Pirate Latitudes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[00:36]
radan	there's a lot of people voting yes	[00:36]
radan	hmmm	[00:36]
cazalla	that's it	[00:36]
radan	I don't get what it's saying	[00:36]
cazalla	not the best book but i enjoy stuff like that, hornblower etc	[00:37]
mike_c	hm, hornblower has got to be better than a book crichton wrote after he died	[00:37]
mike_c	i liked hornblower	[00:37]
cazalla	yeah, i wish they would make more, shame the books are a bit difficult to read - at least for me	[00:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 14 @ 0.05619641 = 0.7867 BTC [-] {9}	[00:39]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 12 @ 0.06545798 = 0.7855 BTC [+] {10}	[00:41]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-]	[00:55]
benkay	mircea_popescu: derivabit.com	[00:55]
benkay	jurov: ^^	[00:58]
benkay	thestringpuller: ^^ kakobrekla ^^	[00:58]
Neil	.d	[00:59]
ozbot	4.250 billion \| Next Diff in 6 blocks \| Estimated Change: 17.6985% in 0d 0h 36m 43s	[00:59]
jurov	yes i have seen. "Derivabit uses Coinbase’s spot rate."	[00:59]
mike_c	they aren't even worth laughing at. a couple of front-end engineers built an options exchange.	[00:59]
jurov	how do they want to protect from manipuation?	[01:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7550 @ 0.00095345 = 7.1985 BTC [+]	[01:00]
mike_c	i like their faq. question: "How can you have USD strike prices but option prices in BTC?" answer: "Orders can be canceled by their user at any time if they have not yet been matched"	[01:00]
benkay	let's test 'em.	[01:00]
benkay	i know, right mike_c?	[01:00]
benkay	tee hee hee question unanswered	[01:00]
benkay	http://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/33526	[01:06]
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r3wt	bcauth; r3wt	[01:11]
r3wt	;bcauth	[01:11]
r3wt	help	[01:11]
r3wt	;;bcauth	[01:12]
gribble	(bcauth ) -- Initiate authentication for user . You must have registered with the bot with a bitcoin address for this to work. You will be given a random passphrase to sign with your address, and submit to the bot with the 'bcverify' command. Your passphrase will expire within 10 minutes.	[01:12]
r3wt	;;bcauth r3wt	[01:12]
gribble	Request successful for user r3wt, hostmask r3wt!addaa87c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.218.168.124. Your challenge string is: freenode:#bitcoin-otc:84e544f76d7e0ac25e4d93a7ba6f807ce615c86e7cc8a1f727bcb5a8	[01:12]
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benkay	wd r3wt	[01:12]
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Neil	So the next diff is just over 5 billion	[01:30]
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novusordo	doesn't that mean free hookers and beer?	[01:34]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11550 @ 0.00095292 = 11.0062 BTC [-] {2}	[01:36]
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nubbins`	only for some	[01:39]
nubbins`	also, dat mpoe	[01:39]
Mats_cd03	free dongs and used condoms	[01:39]
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nubbins`	!t m s.mg	[01:39]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00010001 / 0.00010748 / 0.000154 (7000 shares, 0.75 BTC), 30D: 0.00010001 / 0.00012597 / 0.000154 (12232 shares, 1.54 BTC)	[01:39]
Mats_cd03	!t m s.mpoe	[01:40]
assbot	[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.0009485 / 0.00095208 / 0.00095791 (522419 shares, 497.39 BTC), 7D: 0.00079699 / 0.00087508 / 0.00096 (6292661 shares, 5,506.62 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085663 / 0.00096 (30411002 shares, 26,051.09 BTC)	[01:40]
Mats_cd03	how do i bot	[01:40]
nubbins`	just like that	[01:40]
nubbins`	i'm honestly bewildered by mpoe's volume	[01:41]
Mats_cd03	oh	[01:44]
Mats_cd03	ive had assbot on ignore this whole time	[01:44]
Duffer1	:D	[01:45]
Mats_cd03	wuts bewildering? 2600btc/30d?	[01:46]
Mats_cd03	well, with an additional 0	[01:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00297601 = 0.1488 BTC [-]	[01:47]
jurov	;;prevdiffchange	[01:51]
gribble	17.80244	[01:52]
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deadweasel	holy shit 94!	[01:53]
deadweasel	noice	[01:54]
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ninjashogun	is the public ledger going to contain every record from forever?	[01:59]
ninjashogun	If bitcoin is used for 100 years, will anyone who participates have to download every single transactoin, ever, down to today?	[02:00]
deadweasel	ask again in 100 yrs	[02:01]
deadweasel	notice the timestampes	[02:01]
ninjashogun	if the blockchain is already 20 GB, then in a year or two will it be like 100 GB - just to be part of the network?	[02:01]
deadweasel	the future is undetermined	[02:02]
deadweasel	you may not survive the year, nor me nor anybody elese	[02:02]
deadweasel	else*	[02:03]
jurov	ninjashogun: it will be pruned to store only most recent outputs and all the rest will be archived	[02:03]
deadweasel	you can trust him, he traveleth the time.	[02:03]
jurov	and even if not, 100GB of SSD isn't unaffordable, I hope	[02:04]
deadweasel	especially in 2yrs	[02:04]
deadweasel	ninjashogun: how old are you again?	[02:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-]	[02:05]
jurov	btw, I'm running btc and ltc and atc nodes off one 320gb spinning rust. seems to work fine	[02:05]
ninjashogun	deadweasel, 28-32	[02:05]
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ninjashogun	I'm talking with a collaborator about crypto currencies and varoius exchanges, etc.	[02:06]
ninjashogun	Does anyone here know about mastercoin?	[02:06]
ninjashogun	Are mastercoin in here (a nick) for example? etc.	[02:06]
ninjashogun	here or -otc or #bitcoin	[02:06]
Mats_cd03	huh	[02:06]
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ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, mastercoin. See: https://www.google.com/search?q=mastercoin	[02:07]
ninjashogun	http://www.mastercoin.org/ - http://www.mastercoinfoundation.org/	[02:08]
ozbot	Master Protocol & Mastercoin	[02:08]
CheckDavid	:)	[02:08]
Mats_cd03	20:06 Are mastercoin in here (a nick) for example? etc. <<< huh	[02:08]
Mats_cd03	anyways people in here generally dont care about altchains	[02:09]
deadweasel	^	[02:09]
Mats_cd03	oh whoops i must have misunderstood the idea	[02:09]
ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, I meant is a nick from one of the contributors in here. I should have asked in #bitcoin	[02:09]
Mats_cd03	ok	[02:09]
ninjashogun	sorry about that	[02:09]
CheckDavid	Mats_cd03: is master coin an alt chain @	[02:10]
CheckDavid	It uses the btc block chain	[02:10]
Mats_cd03	i'm confused by the website, "Mastercoin To Create New Altcoins In Bitcoin’s Block Chain" is the title of a press release	[02:11]
Mats_cd03	so: idk	[02:11]
ninjashogun	(by the way CheckDavid and I are on skype now, and we may be collaborating on the jobs thing. I talked with him for a couple of hours total, don't know him personally yet but we're on skype.)	[02:11]
ninjashogun	(I have a good impression so far.)	[02:11]
ninjashogun	This is just in the interest of full disclosure.	[02:12]
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Mats_cd03	cute	[02:12]
CheckDavid	Haha	[02:12]
benkay	jurov: some days don't you feel like "fuck hardware"?	[02:12]
CheckDavid	We are cybering	[02:13]
benkay	aws has all this damn storage and compute	[02:13]
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Mats_cd03	;;ud docking	[02:13]
benkay	i know crypto on cloud is anathema but OOOOH THE TEMPTATION	[02:13]
gribble	http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=docking \| docking. The act of placing the head of ones penis inside the foreskin of another's penis. David and Patrick enjoyed docking immensely because of Patty's ...	[02:13]
ozbot	Urban Dictionary: docking	[02:13]
blackwhite	evening gents	[02:13]
Mats_cd03	^ CheckDavid + ninjashogun	[02:13]
CheckDavid	<3	[02:13]
benkay	;;first CheckDavid	[02:14]
gribble	Error: "first" is not a valid command.	[02:14]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00095527 = 18.1501 BTC [+] {3}	[02:14]
Mats_cd03	mixing smegma is the most intimate moment one can share with another man	[02:14]
benkay	gribble needs a ;;first to complement ;;seen	[02:14]
Duffer1	:(	[02:14]
Mats_cd03	alright i need a drink	[02:14]
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Mats_cd03	https://github.com/shaih/HElib	[02:16]
CheckDavid	Mats_cd03: but I think master coin doesn't have any alt chain	[02:17]
Mats_cd03	(useful for e-voting as per prev. discussion, and maybe even useful for reducing the size of the blockchain in the future)	[02:17]
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benkay	how so reduce size of blockchain?	[02:18]
CheckDavid	If I interpreted what you meant by that properly	[02:18]
Mats_cd03	CheckDavid: i speak from a place of ignorance re: mastercoin so dont mind me	[02:19]
CheckDavid	Oh OK	[02:19]
CheckDavid	But yeah. I am not talking about just some random alt	[02:19]
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CheckDavid	It's supposedly a protocol that adds a lot of value to btc	[02:20]
benkay	supposedly.	[02:20]
CheckDavid	It's definitely a protocol	[02:20]
benkay	and i guess bitcoin is just a protocol and so this thing is additively good	[02:20]
CheckDavid	And it's definitely using the btc block chain	[02:20]
CheckDavid	Now of its valuable , that's subjective as all value is	[02:21]
CheckDavid	*if	[02:21]
nubbins`	name a good movie	[02:21]
benkay	glengarry glen ross	[02:21]
CheckDavid	Pink panther	[02:21]
ninjashogun	ha, pink panther	[02:22]
ninjashogun	I was just watching that	[02:22]
cazalla	can you trade bitcoons on the massahcoin network?	[02:23]
CheckDavid	Lolol	[02:24]
Mats_cd03	benkay: pulled it out of my ass.	[02:25]
Mats_cd03	(wouldnt ever work, occurred to me without evidence)	[02:26]
nubbins`	!t h hif	[02:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:HIF] 1D: 0.00047505 / 0.00048074 / 0.00050498 (131 shares, 0.06297634 BTC), 7D: 0.00039967 / 0.00047559 / 0.00051299 (9474 shares, 4.50576619 BTC), 30D: 0.00038802 / 0.0005072 / 0.00057500 (66406 shares, 33.68111884 BTC)	[02:28]
KRS-One	nubbins?	[02:29]
nubbins`	from what i can tell, they're about an order of magnitude off their trading volume predictions	[02:29]
nubbins`	hi	[02:29]
kakobrekla	/cap req -identify-msg	[02:30]
kakobrekla	bleh	[02:30]
nubbins`	hmm 3.4MB/s	[02:30]
nubbins`	i gotta say, i'm happy with my internet service	[02:30]
nubbins`	it's not often i straight-up download large files	[02:30]
nubbins`	so i don't always appreciate it	[02:30]
nubbins`	4.2!	[02:31]
nubbins`	but this is great :D	[02:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32333 @ 0.00095571 = 30.901 BTC [+] {2}	[02:32]
ninjashogun	http://i.minus.com/itOALVKyDoZDB.gif	[02:33]
copumpkin	man, MPOE is hot again	[02:34]
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blackwhite	what do you think is the best wallet design you have seen, visually?	[02:37]
ninjashogun	blackwhite - you mean physical (like leather) wallets?	[02:38]
deadweasel	wallet.dat	[02:38]
ninjashogun	Does anyone here know aobut https://cryptostocks.com/ (in specific)?	[02:38]
ninjashogun	and what they're doing, whether trustworthy, etc	[02:38]
blackwhite	i saw http://www.hivewallet.com which is interesting	[02:38]
Apocalyptic	ninjashogun, they're full of scams	[02:38]
Duffer1	ninja you can trust them to list every scam in the space	[02:38]
Duffer1	they probably make so much money off it that they haven't yet decided to just run with the money	[02:40]
ninjashogun	let's flip it around. Would a serious company that had traditoinal real-world financing rounds (convertible note, or equity offering with shareholder's agreement with a real VC) ever list on there?	[02:40]
Duffer1	nope	[02:40]
ninjashogun	I meant to write the word "options" instead of the word "rounds"	[02:40]
ninjashogun	okay	[02:40]
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TestingUnoDosTre	So apparently I've been living under a bush for a while, but the creator of Candy Crush was apparently successful at generating cash flow?	[02:46]
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BingoBoingo	ninjashogun: Cryptostocks/Vircurex just did clawbacks in yet another operator enacted scam	[02:50]
ninjashogun	BingoBoingo, could you explain?	[02:51]
BingoBoingo	ninjashogun: https://vircurex.com/welcome/ann_reserved.html	[02:51]
BingoBoingo	Run by the same operator as cryptostocks	[02:51]
ninjashogun	yes I saw that	[02:51]
ninjashogun	Oh that is VERY good information!!!	[02:51]
ninjashogun	However, I will say one thing. At a macro level there is no FDIC, nor bailout.	[02:51]
BingoBoingo	Well, can any platform that does such a thing be taken seriously?	[02:52]
ninjashogun	I'll explain.	[02:52]
ninjashogun	The reason is that actions are judged on the basis of their consequences.	[02:52]
ninjashogun	Now it should have been practicing PROPER opsec.	[02:52]
ninjashogun	It should NOT have had coins stolen.	[02:52]
ninjashogun	But let's say it did.	[02:52]
ninjashogun	What should it do now?	[02:52]
Apocalyptic	ninjashogun, you're not making any sense	[02:53]
ninjashogun	It could have done something even stronger: "We will now be fractional-reserve, the way all banks in the United States have operated for 100 years. We will not hold as many bitcoins physically as are in our accounts - nor make up the deficit."	[02:53]
ninjashogun	(as are in YOUR accounts, I mean)	[02:53]
ninjashogun	But it didn't say that:	[02:53]
Apocalyptic	but they can't even satisfy withdrawals now	[02:53]
Apocalyptic	that's why they are locking the balances, they've been operating fractional for years	[02:53]
Apocalyptic	ninjashogun, are you not reading the statement ?	[02:53]
ninjashogun	It said "We will get back to 100% reserve bank, owning as many bitcoins physically as people have on account. To get back up to that level we will take the profit from our operations and use it to build up the fractional level."	[02:54]
BingoBoingo	ninjashogun: They never had a profit	[02:54]
ninjashogun	Apocalyptic, according to that statement, ALL people will be paid back eventually.	[02:54]
ninjashogun	I understand this.	[02:54]
Apocalyptic	yeah yeah...	[02:54]
BingoBoingo	In spite of raising 3000 some BTC in an "IPO"	[02:54]
ninjashogun	I know.	[02:54]
Apocalyptic	if you trust the statement	[02:54]
ninjashogun	how many btc are they reporting stolen	[02:55]
benkay	lol "all people will be paid back"	[02:55]
Apocalyptic	you believe it too benkay don't you ?	[02:55]
ninjashogun	wait, we can judge whether this has any chance of being true	[02:55]
benkay	man if i had a btc for every time i've read that	[02:55]
benkay	i judge stochastically these days ninjashogun	[02:55]
BingoBoingo	ninja they have been a known shit heap since roughly February 2012	[02:55]
ninjashogun	they raised 3000 btc in an IPO. That means that is free cash for them - they sold equity?	[02:55]
benkay	99% likelihood nobody gets paid back.	[02:55]
ninjashogun	I understand that.	[02:55]
ninjashogun	But if they shut down, that 99% becomes 100%.	[02:55]
benkay	...	[02:56]
benkay	yes.	[02:56]
benkay	that is very true.	[02:56]
BingoBoingo	They got hacked, "IPO'd", got hacked again, started paying interest on deposits, and now this.	[02:56]
ninjashogun	Let me make an analogy. (I might have the facts totally wrong). IN the seventies or eighties (no real idea on the decade, I'm guessing) the U.S. found that some third-world country had either stolen some of the mint's machinery, or gotten their hands on perfect reproductions. It could make undetectable counterfeit dollar bills.	[02:56]
ninjashogun	What did they do - did they shut down all of the then-current series?	[02:56]
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benkay	eyo mo	[02:57]
ninjashogun	No. They just let the counterfeiters print at the limiting capacity of those presses, taking the hit on the total money supply.	[02:57]
ninjashogun	That is probably a better outcome than if they had "abandoned the dollar" due to its dilution by fake dollars.	[02:57]
moiety	mew :)	[02:57]
Mats_cd03	lol	[02:57]
benkay	what do you think mo: is a scam a scam?	[02:58]
ninjashogun	Likewise, if a currency does get hacked, it is probably better to become fractional-reserve, or freeze accounts, or play other shenanigans, than just say, "Well we're gone now, bye, and thanks"	[02:58]
moiety	benkay: not if its called a ponzi	[02:58]
BingoBoingo	ninjashogun: This isn't a currency getting hacked.	[02:58]
benkay	ba-dum-tsh	[02:58]
ninjashogun	CheckDavid says (we're on skype) he doesn't get my point	[02:58]
BingoBoingo	This is a business admitting its business model is incompatible with reality and failing to take the last necessary action.	[02:59]
ninjashogun	My point is just that from among the alternatives, shutting down the exchange is guaranteed to have the worst possible outcome for lenders/creditors. (people who put thehir bitcoins or usd in.)	[02:59]
Mats_cd03	sure if you are the operator and you are honest then yes that is how it proceeds	[02:59]
moiety	do you think kakobrekla can make an ignore that works on the logs too?	[02:59]
ninjashogun	BingoBoingo, do you mean because vircurex is making it up?	[02:59]
ninjashogun	BingoBoingo, and it's not a genuine thing that happened? That https://vircurex.com/welcome/ann_reserved.html is about a lie?	[02:59]
Mats_cd03	what incentive does a new customer have to become a part of a known weak exchange?	[02:59]
benkay	moiety! stop trolling!	[02:59]
moiety	>.>	[03:00]
moiety	<.<	[03:00]
Mats_cd03	do you expect depositors to behave like their risk profile didnt just go up?	[03:00]
BingoBoingo	ninjashogun: I mean the thing they need to do is stop, and the time for them to have done so was last winter	[03:00]
benkay	i want an ignore that works on anyone who's unrated by people i've rated	[03:00]
Mats_cd03	write a script for your client	[03:00]
ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, no, but I think that you will find in looking at Fiat that the fact that the money supply is unilaterally increased by letting banks put more into circulation than existed - and that the rate of this is a total unknown - does not deter people from using and holding USD.	[03:00]
moiety	but that would mean me too for now	[03:00]
ninjashogun	(More specificlaly, it does deter people from holding USD, but not entirely.)	[03:01]
benkay	ah, rats.	[03:01]
moiety	i will change this though	[03:01]
benkay	yes plz do	[03:01]
benkay	maybe nag nano to let you auth with doge or something ;)	[03:01]
benkay	that's the really silly thing about not getting in the wot	[03:01]
benkay	it only takes a btc addy	[03:01]
Mats_cd03	nobody cares about the size of the bitcoin money supply	[03:01]
Mats_cd03	what are you trying to say	[03:02]
moiety	i would quite like my wot untainted :P	[03:02]
moiety	we did make bitcoinmagazine in other news	[03:02]
benkay	untainted by what?!	[03:02]
moiety	doge lol	[03:02]
gribble	such auth, very doge	[03:02]
moiety	gribble!!!	[03:03]
benkay	;;gribble	[03:03]
gribble	yes I am gribble. why do you keep bothering me?	[03:03]
ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, well what is the PRIMARY issue with putting your bitcoin in a site that is currently freezing someone else's bitcoins? Look at that and you will see, some people may still put some of their bitocins in.	[03:03]
ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, would anyone ever put their bitcoins onto a site that is currently freezing somebody else's bitcoins - and they know this?	[03:03]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.64797672 = 4.5358 BTC [+] {3}	[03:04]
moiety	Did Izzy ever re-appear? sorry i wasn't around	[03:04]
benkay	;;seen Izzy_	[03:04]
gribble	Izzy_ was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: ok	[03:04]
ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, we know for a fact that with real currencies the answer is "yes". We know because people used paypal when paypal froze merchant's accounts and ruined their businesses. We know because people use US Banks when US Banks freeze people's accounts while they're under investigatoin. etc.	[03:04]
benkay	difference there being 0.01% get fucked vs. 100% get fucked in this situation.	[03:05]
benkay	.bait	[03:05]
ozbot	http://24.media.tumblr.com/6c8140cdfacc9094758b3b455fded46a/tumblr_mgk585YVJc1rgmx4co1_500.jpg	[03:05]
Duffer1	ninjashogun cryptostocks continued operation is a gross violation of common sense, morality, and probably most jurisdiction's laws	[03:05]
benkay	cute.	[03:05]
moiety	i like this one	[03:06]
benkay	cryptostocks continued operation is a gross violation of thermodynamics.	[03:06]
benkay	vircurex too.	[03:06]
Apocalyptic	^	[03:06]
Mats_cd03	thighs	[03:06]
BingoBoingo	benkay: I don't think it is proper to separate the shenanigans of the two	[03:07]
Mats_cd03	nobody cares about the continued operation per se; its the continued damage to the reputation of legitimate operators within the ecosystem	[03:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 70 @ 0.00630873 = 0.4416 BTC [-] {2}	[03:08]
Duffer1	that and the certain damage to future unwary participants in the exchange	[03:08]
Mats_cd03	besides which, there is no incentive for new customers in lieu of a new risk profile	[03:08]
benkay	fuck 'em all, let everyone drown.	[03:09]
benkay	it's a rotten ship and they're all rats.	[03:09]
Mats_cd03	paypal and usg having a number of such incentives that enable them to operate like thugs	[03:09]
benkay	Mats_cd03: tack another three order of magnitude on for thuggery.	[03:09]
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Mats_cd03	also, something about conflating deposits in a exchange with actual currency...	[03:13]
Mats_cd03	reconsidering whether or not im being trolled tbqh	[03:13]
Mats_cd03	https://soundcloud.com/thomasjackmusic/benjamin-francis-leftwich	[03:16]
ninjashogun	Mats_cd03, you're not being trolled	[03:16]
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ninjashogun	It's interesting though that the exchanges are behaving as the early unregulated banks did. Complete with bank runs :) (According to the quoted Vircurex text - "https://vircurex.com/welcome/ann_reserved.html")	[03:17]
ninjashogun	"We had enough coin balances in our cold wallet to upkeep our platform and the positive cashflow enabled us to gradually refill the wallets.	[03:17]
ninjashogun	Unfortunately we had large fund withdrawals in the last weeks which have lead to a complete depletion of our cold wallet balance and we are now facing the option of either closing the site with significant unrecoverable losses for all or to work out a solution that allows the exchange to continue to operate and gradually pay back the losses. "	[03:17]
ninjashogun	I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime :) :) :)	[03:17]
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moiety	what the absolute fuck	[03:19]
ninjashogun	moiety, you know the history of banks in the United States (and elswhere) right	[03:19]
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moiety	ninjashogun: why yes, only yesterday i learned the voice of siri was the voice for the very first atm (tillie the teller i believe) << such history	[03:20]
blackwhite	someone would make a killing setting up a 24/7 security company watching over those online wallets	[03:21]
moiety	sigh* why do you ask ninjashogun	[03:22]
blackwhite	how the fuck can their security be so bad? Or is it just the hackers who are that good?	[03:22]
moiety	or hidden answer c. scamming fucks	[03:22]
TestingUnoDosTre	never knew that about tillie the teller, thanks moiety	[03:22]
BingoBoingo	blackwhite: Vircurex was hacked way back during Winter 2012-Spring 2013	[03:23]
blackwhite	yeah	[03:23]
TestingUnoDosTre	quick poll here: How long does it take for all of you to type "We were hacked for XX,XXX BTC."	[03:23]
moiety	TestingUnoDosTre: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6boqUfzUD8 here she is explaining	[03:24]
BingoBoingo	blackwhite: In their case the culprit seemed to be Ruby on Rails	[03:24]
cazalla	people actually use siri?	[03:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.055035 = 0.5504 BTC [-] {3}	[03:26]
TestingUnoDosTre	People are ridiculous, no?	[03:27]
kakobrekla	someone would make a killing setting up a 24/7 security company watching over those online wallets < - is this opening asciis parachute after you have hit the ground?	[03:29]
blackwhite	?	[03:29]
blackwhite	sorry not sure I understand?	[03:30]
blackwhite	humor and irony is lost on me	[03:30]
Apocalyptic	kako : sounds like it	[03:30]
Apocalyptic	blackwhite, when you notice the theft it's already too late	[03:30]
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blackwhite	yeah sure. But I am pretty sure one of the problems is that they are not looking and monitoring all the time	[03:31]
blackwhite	so I am saying setup a company who look for suspicius deals or have a whitelist of larger transactions. (i.e. tell this company when you are going to make larger transactions)	[03:32]
radan	can I wager money on mpoe	[03:32]
radan	or mpex	[03:32]
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Apocalyptic	"have a whitelist of larger transactions." what ?	[03:33]
Apocalyptic	i'm not sure you get how it works	[03:33]
Apocalyptic	and what prevents the theif from withdrawing a lot in small amounts ,	[03:33]
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Mats_cd03	radan: http://bitbet.us/bet/784/s-mpoe-to-rise-above-0-001-before-july http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	soo	[03:36]
mircea_popescu	what's new	[03:36]
radan	what does "trades above 0.001 BTC " mean	[03:36]
Mats_cd03	per share	[03:36]
radan	so like	[03:36]
radan	btc instead of dollars	[03:37]
ninjashogun	radan ye	[03:37]
ninjashogun	btc is a currency	[03:37]
ninjashogun!@	added to ignore list.	[03:37]
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radan	right	[03:38]
radan	so mpoe's had an ipo	[03:38]
radan	and people are buying stock in it	[03:38]
radan	wow	[03:39]
TestingUnoDosTre	;;whoami	[03:39]
gribble	I don't recognize you.	[03:39]
mircea_popescu	that was in... 2012 ?	[03:39]
radan	the future is now	[03:39]
TestingUnoDosTre	no, the future was 2012	[03:40]
blackwhite	Apocalyptic i get how it works and nothing prevents them from removing a lot of small amount other than that kind of consitution the same as a large amount. If they have to do it over a month then I would most probably know.	[03:40]
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blackwhite	constituting even	[03:40]
radan	why don't banks do this	[03:40]
TestingUnoDosTre	;;whois radan	[03:41]
gribble	Error: You don't have the network.whois capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.	[03:41]
blackwhite	anyway just thinking out loud here.	[03:41]
radan	besides that they probably have tons of cash to play around with in usd	[03:41]
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TestingUnoDosTre	do the mods at bitbet work certain hours of the day, or are they more like round clock rotation type	[03:42]
mircea_popescu	sorta round the clock.	[03:42]
radan	wow	[03:43]
radan	someone bet 600,000 that bitcoin will beat berkshire hathaway	[03:43]
radan	maybe they know something we don't	[03:43]
TestingUnoDosTre	someone	[03:43]
TestingUnoDosTre	lol	[03:43]
TestingUnoDosTre	it's called bitcoin	[03:43]
MisterE	http://newsbtc.com/2014/03/24/tera-group-forms-legal-framework-bitcoin-swaps/	[03:44]
copumpkin	radan: the someone was the last message before you said that	[03:44]
MisterE	Finally someone is making a derivatives market!	[03:44]
MisterE	I hope this is the stability we've been looking for	[03:44]
radan	oh, cool	[03:44]
moiety	i sent someone to bitbet today. i linked them and they still searched google and tried .com. conclusion: some people can't be helped.	[03:44]
radan	maybe I should bet .1 btc on that bet	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	moiety you ever hook up with that izzy chick ?	[03:45]
radan	if I win, then I get 2.8 bitcoin	[03:45]
MisterE	my first time to bitbet I hit .com too	[03:45]
moiety	doesn't look like she has everre-appeared	[03:45]
mircea_popescu	ah	[03:45]
moiety	i did think on emailing her, but .. life.	[03:45]
hanbot	sweet sleep when you go	[03:46]
radan	but my whole life savings is in btc	[03:46]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[03:46]
radan	if I lose .1 btc I'd be down 60 actual dollars	[03:46]
radan	hmm	[03:46]
mircea_popescu	MisterE you know we had a derivatives market for about two years, and yes it did bring plenty of stability heh	[03:46]
*	mircea_popescu contemplates being butthurt	[03:46]
radan	I guess it's a better investment than keeping in my wallet doing nothing	[03:46]
radan	alright, I'll do it	[03:47]
mircea_popescu	bets aren't really investments, they're gambling	[03:47]
moiety	;; later tell Izzy_ Do you still need help?	[03:47]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[03:47]
radan	how do I bet on bitbet	[03:47]
radan	wait nvm	[03:48]
radan	there's a faq	[03:48]
moiety	mircea_popescu: http://s18.photobucket.com/user/bobbarker31/media/3280983403_b0e0503945_o.jpg.html	[03:48]
MisterE	please retype the internet into IRC for me :p	[03:48]
MisterE	what do you mean mircea_popescu ?	[03:48]
mircea_popescu	lol	[03:48]
TestingUnoDosTre	I wish you could trade default swaps on bitcoin companies... like virtuex	[03:49]
Apocalyptic	lol	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	MisterE http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-march-2013-statement/ like that.	[03:49]
Apocalyptic	that would be nice indeed	[03:49]
CheckDavid	mircea_popescu: do you know about Master coin ?	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	yeah.	[03:49]
duduqa	Have you ever considered creating an alt-channel #bitcoin-assets-stupid for beginners, people with learning disabilities etc like myself?	[03:49]
mircea_popescu	this is it.	[03:50]
CheckDavid	Any short comments on it mircea_popescu ?	[03:50]
CheckDavid	Loool	[03:50]
mircea_popescu	CheckDavid it doesn't do much.	[03:50]
CheckDavid	Oh I see	[03:50]
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mircea_popescu	TestingUnoDosTre yeah, because the counterparties would be solvent, in that paralel universe where idiots have infinite bitcoins	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	to go with their infinite hitpoints	[03:51]
CheckDavid	You mean doesn't do much yet. Or it won't do much of anything in the near future?	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	CheckDavid what do you expect it to do ?	[03:51]
CheckDavid	Issue stocks for example	[03:51]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` maybe he meant unexpectedly keel over.	[03:51]
CheckDavid	Distribute dividends	[03:52]
TestingUnoDosTre	you could sell them in neat little batches with different risk profiles... it would be a paradise	[03:52]
CheckDavid	Exchange currencies without risk of scam at the trade level	[03:52]
CheckDavid	ninjashogun: go sleep	[03:52]
radan	is multibit secure?	[03:52]
CheckDavid	Haha	[03:52]
mircea_popescu	radan more or less	[03:53]
radan	awesome	[03:53]
mircea_popescu	no major issues so far afaik	[03:53]
moiety	you just listed reasons why you haven't found investment yourself there ninjashogun	[03:54]
BingoBoingo	radan: I prefer 0.5.11 to newer multibit releases	[03:55]
kakobrekla	they are not all scam, just most.	[03:55]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin decentral accelerate ? srsly ?	[03:55]
mircea_popescu	"the world's first" of course.	[03:55]
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mircea_popescu	who the fuck thought someone wants a mentor they've never met.	[03:55]
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mircea_popescu	jesus im too old for online	[03:55]
moiety	thats not what i meant	[03:56]
moiety	lovely for you ninjashogun, invited where? make sure he sees you home like a gentleman	[03:57]
MisterE	MP: I see that monthly statement, bummer month, but anyways what am I missing about a derivatives connection? the bonds market?	[03:57]
radan	this feels pretty momentous	[03:57]
radan	http://s28.postimg.org/54j7713vx/bitcoins.png	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	options are derivatives in my book	[03:57]
mircea_popescu	not in yours ?	[03:57]
copumpkin	o.O	[03:57]
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mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves yeah, everyone's trying to pass off bucket shop bullshit for "derivatives"	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	non deliverable = scam. period.	[03:59]
radan	wait a second	[03:59]
radan	is bitbet legal	[03:59]
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MisterE	yea they are but a robust derivatives market is more than options	[03:59]
mircea_popescu	MisterE well x.eur is a future. x.idiff are futures	[04:00]
MisterE	I dont think I'm understanding everything I'm reading there	[04:00]
asciilifeform	today's lulz:	[04:00]
asciilifeform	http://nsa.gov1.info/dni/2014/nsa-china-military.jpg	[04:00]
MisterE	ok	[04:00]
ThickAsThieves	undeliverable isnt the same as non-deliverable	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	the various stocks either don't have enough volume or, for the non-mpex crowd, arten't actually stocks, don't even publish statements etc	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	cfds are a long way away	[04:00]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves what difference do yo uhave in mind there ?	[04:00]
ThickAsThieves	referring to diff futures etc not being the same as USD btc options	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	diff futures are a pain in the butt	[04:01]
mircea_popescu	but from what i've seen these people were trying to sell icbit-style "futures" on the usd	[04:01]
ThickAsThieves	but one of the futures i know	[04:01]
ThickAsThieves	best*	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	was the wsj story about diff futures ?	[04:02]
ThickAsThieves	love me some diff bets	[04:02]
ThickAsThieves	no	[04:02]
ThickAsThieves	i dont think so at least	[04:02]
ThickAsThieves	there were a few today i didnt read em all	[04:02]
radan	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_casino#United_States	[04:02]
ozbot	Online casino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[04:02]
ThickAsThieves	i assumed it was all the same news	[04:02]
radan	it's alright	[04:02]
TestingUnoDosTre	asciilifeform that is some top secret shit right there 1!!	[04:02]
radan	unless you live in nevada you can probably use it, I gather	[04:02]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i'd really love to see the chinese files on nato	[04:03]
MisterE	ThickAsThieves: you're talking abotu Tera?	[04:04]
ThickAsThieves	"The first way is as follows, since 80% of the Icelandic population is on Facebook, Icelandic citizens will be able to claim their coins simply by logging into Facebook through a gateway."	[04:04]
ThickAsThieves	MisterE i dunno	[04:04]
ThickAsThieves	i mostly forgot about it after i read it	[04:04]
ThickAsThieves	i cant respect a btc derivative that doesnt touch btc	[04:05]
*	the20year (~the20yr@cpe-24-26-155-17.columbus.res.rr.com) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:05]
ThickAsThieves	too dirty	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell MykelSIlver it makes relatively little difference what software bitbet.us runs, as webserver doesn't really hold coins anywya	[04:05]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[04:05]
mircea_popescu	kakobrekla: i was actually contemplating just copy pasting the output of current wp in a html file << notrly such a bad idea.	[04:06]
ThickAsThieves	it makes a difference if the site can be compromised and depsot addressed get mitm'd	[04:06]
ThickAsThieves	deposit*	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	well it doesn't run wordpress afaik, but that's no absolute guarantee.	[04:06]
ThickAsThieves	wordpress loving to be compromised n all	[04:06]
mircea_popescu	concerned parties are advised to send some dust first, that'll verify the address and lock it down	[04:06]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00095224 = 18.4735 BTC [-] {2}	[04:07]
ThickAsThieves	"The second way for an Icelandic citizen to receive their auroracoins will be through SMS. The person’s cell phone number will then be matched with their National ID number and once verified the user will receive their auroracoins."	[04:07]
BingoBoingo	http://gawker.com/judge-joe-brown-arrested-and-jailed-for-contempt-of-cou-1550813313	[04:07]
ozbot	Judge Joe Brown Arrested and Jailed for Contempt of Court	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell benkay that salt stuff sounds like unintended malleability.	[04:07]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[04:07]
MisterE	pretty much everyone I know gets hacked for the first time using WordPress	[04:07]
ThickAsThieves	is there a year-long auroracoin bet yet?	[04:07]
mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo cou, being, of course, ass. in french. so contempt of cou...	[04:08]
radan	damn, iceland's pretty smart	[04:08]
ThickAsThieves	...	[04:08]
MisterE	this is the news I'm talking about ThickAsThieves http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-24/bitcoin-swaps-near-reality-as-tera-group-forms-legal-framework.html	[04:08]
radan	this is like giving every man a farm so he can work productively	[04:08]
ThickAsThieves	iceland has no part in it radan	[04:08]
MisterE	yea I wanted to move to Iceland for long time now	[04:08]
ThickAsThieves	it's just some guy sending coins to people	[04:09]
ThickAsThieves	an idea of a thing	[04:09]
mircea_popescu	~worthless~ coins to peoplke.	[04:09]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Well, of all of the things to have drawn contempt from, asses might not be that bad	[04:09]
radan	I don't think you can, MisterE	[04:09]
radan	Iceland's pretty tight on immigration unless you're rich or a refugee	[04:10]
MisterE	yea not unless you're Scandanavian resident already	[04:10]
MisterE	thats what I found	[04:10]
radan	I presume you want to go there because they have a stable society	[04:10]
moiety	i like to top comment re judge judy BingoBoingo	[04:10]
ThickAsThieves	go to switzerland	[04:10]
ThickAsThieves	or canada	[04:11]
ThickAsThieves	pretty stable places	[04:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.00299999 = 0.105 BTC [+]	[04:11]
radan	but consider that the reason for this is that everyone shares significant ethnic and cultural bonds you are not privy to	[04:11]
MisterE	canada is lost	[04:11]
MisterE	and Iceland is on the same track so in retrospect I'm glad I stayed put	[04:11]
asciilifeform	mark twain's theorem. 'don't join the club that would let you in.'	[04:11]
mircea_popescu	whos judge brown anyway	[04:11]
TestingUnoDosTre	If anyone finds a version of that bitcoin swaps article that contains comments about the winklevoss brothers, please send it to me. I read it earlier today and broke out laughing, but I can't find it now :(	[04:11]
bones`	My hometown shining star of Reality TV, mircea_popescu	[04:11]
ThickAsThieves	a tv judge?	[04:11]
ThickAsThieves	yeah	[04:12]
ThickAsThieves	like Montel meets Judge Judy	[04:12]
bones`	He just gets loud and says catchphrases	[04:12]
ThickAsThieves	he looks way cooler with that handlebar stache	[04:12]
bones`	He looks like 5 miles of bad road if you ask me	[04:13]
radan	alright	[04:13]
radan	I did it	[04:13]
BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: He was one of those daytime shows that keep those with nothing to do during the day sated in between ration tickets.	[04:13]
TestingUnoDosTre	apparently, he was an actual criminal judge for a county back in the day	[04:13]
bones`	Ya my county. :(	[04:13]
mircea_popescu	deadweasel finance couldn't be abandoned, i dont think. merely reduced to it's bare bones.	[04:13]
TestingUnoDosTre	I would rather my county have a pompous tv personality judge than a real hard ass judge	[04:14]
radan	hopefully I won't need to eat those 60 bucks anytime soon	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	currently there's one valuable person per bank office : the credits officer. he's the guy that makes the call if lending is a good idea.	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	everyone else just pushes paper, does forms and bs. that could be done away with	[04:14]
BingoBoingo	Joe Brown is one of those cases of if you stare too deep into the ghetto, you eventually become ghetto	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	cut 99.5% of the workforce woreking in a bank, increase salaries for the remainder 10 to 100x	[04:14]
mircea_popescu	more inequality, better service.	[04:14]
*	tyrion70 (~Adium@unaffiliated/tyrion70) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:15]
ThickAsThieves	no one goes to banks anymore anyway	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	i do actually.	[04:15]
radan	consider that the purpose of a business (from a societal, not individual viewpoint) is to keep as many people as busy as possible	[04:15]
ThickAsThieves	well me too	[04:15]
ThickAsThieves	but	[04:15]
ThickAsThieves	i read an article today that says like 30% down or something	[04:15]
radan	that's one of the metrics the government likes to use	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	well prolly.	[04:15]
ThickAsThieves	http://www.buzzfeed.com/matthewzeitlin/more-than-30-of-americans-havent-visited-a-bank-in-last-six	[04:15]
ozbot	More Than 30% Of Americans Haven't Visited A Bank In The Last Six Months	[04:15]
mircea_popescu	radan government can stand on its head. businessmen decide what business is.	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves that may be because they're broke.	[04:16]
radan	in a perfect world, yea	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	;;later peterl it's not changed since last year.	[04:16]
gribble	Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "peterl" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.	[04:16]
asciilifeform	can't speak for others in the land of the sad, but i haven't been inside a bank in ages.	[04:16]
mircea_popescu	;;later tell peterl it's not changed since last year.	[04:17]
gribble	The operation succeeded.	[04:17]
radan	but governments tend to monopolize force	[04:17]
asciilifeform	most banks let you deposit cheques by photocopy now	[04:17]
ThickAsThieves	also cuz everyone uses credit cards	[04:17]
MisterE	lending officers rarely are located in branches anymore	[04:17]
radan	and use it like a club to beat on anyone who's not following their "recommendations"	[04:17]
MisterE	they mostly rely on computer algorithms and usually give the go ahead from some corporate HQ	[04:17]
moiety	i'm only ever in my bank when i need to shout at them for fucking something up	[04:18]
MisterE	^	[04:18]
mircea_popescu	i wonder how long before that berkshire bet collects 1k on no side	[04:19]
ThickAsThieves	i'm quite happy the Yes bets are so little	[04:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20889 @ 0.00095455 = 19.9396 BTC [+] {2}	[04:20]
radan	waaaait	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	so little ? it's huge	[04:20]
ThickAsThieves	since yours	[04:20]
radan	I thought betting yes would return 28x	[04:20]
radan	it only returns 1x and some change?	[04:20]
ThickAsThieves	so few, i shouldve said	[04:20]
mircea_popescu	radan you were probably looking at no	[04:21]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9088 @ 0.00095652 = 8.6929 BTC [+] {3}	[04:21]
*	benkay (~user@67.139.70.154) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[04:21]
radan	:/	[04:21]
radan	trolled by my own reading comprehension	[04:22]
ThickAsThieves	yeah i read a bet like 4 or 5 times before sending	[04:22]
ThickAsThieves	it's amazing how twist a yes or no bet can be	[04:22]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[04:22]
ThickAsThieves	twisty*	[04:22]
mircea_popescu	a good policy is perhaps to never bet the day you discover a bet	[04:22]
ThickAsThieves	I have a celendar reminder to review bitbet every 3 days	[04:23]
radan	maybe I'll invest the same amount in the other direction to cancel it out	[04:23]
duduqa	have you guys seen this: http://www.semana.com/aplicaciones/articulo/peligro-ni-se-le-ocurra-intentar-ganar-plata-con-bitcoin/381503-3	[04:23]
mircea_popescu	you don't need the same ammt, read the article about how to cancel	[04:23]
duduqa	Colombia to "ban" bitcoin	[04:23]
mircea_popescu	duduqa i had no idea colombia actually can ban things. didn't they fail with cocaine ?	[04:24]
MisterE	radan: you're the kind of man they give free trips to Vegas to :p	[04:24]
duduqa	mircea_popescu: I said "ban" exactly because of that	[04:24]
MisterE	betting both sides, the house loves you :)	[04:24]
mircea_popescu	:p	[04:24]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[04:25]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	MisterE no actually, betting both sides is the way to play.	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	this is mutual not bs.	[04:25]
ThickAsThieves	i bet both sides of the berkshire bet	[04:25]
ThickAsThieves	how could you not	[04:25]
MisterE	what?	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	http://bitbet.us/bet/740/may-i-suggest-9b-difficulty/	[04:25]
MisterE	you have a fee so you're always out then	[04:25]
ozbot	BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	this is actually not so far off	[04:25]
mircea_popescu	MisterE you don't understand the weight	[04:26]
MisterE	oh there's odds?	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	there's weight and implicit odds	[04:26]
MisterE	thats understandable then	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	you can shave plenty just by watching the bets.	[04:26]
MisterE	hmmm	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	perfectly legit way to make cash. liquidity providing, as it were.	[04:26]
MisterE	I'm afraid to look into it another time sink!	[04:26]
mircea_popescu	yeah this isn't for amateurs. raw power, so it requires solid understanding of what's going on.	[04:27]
MisterE	the more I hear you guys chatter about it the more likely will though heh	[04:27]
benkay	i still don't actually understand how to actually play parimutuel odds	[04:27]
MisterE	I do remember briefly reading the site and what exactly a yes or no could mean was very difficult to determine sometimes	[04:28]
MisterE	even with the outcome explaination	[04:28]
MisterE	explanation*	[04:28]
radan	okay	[04:28]
radan	.1 on yes	[04:28]
moiety	way more fun to learn than say fucking javascript	[04:28]
radan	.05 on no	[04:28]
MisterE	benkay: I understand that as the first few people who are in share the winnings	[04:29]
radan	then I win either way	[04:29]
radan	god, this is awesome	[04:30]
radan	it's like a license to print money	[04:30]
benkay	moiety it can't be that hard to learn to say fucking javascript	[04:30]
benkay	pretty sure that's the first thing i learned when i started working with javascript as a matter of fact.	[04:30]
benkay	"fucking javascript"	[04:30]
MisterE	hah	[04:30]
moiety	not hard, just tedious benkay . i think i have the fucking javascript up part totally down	[04:31]
benkay	javascript and python feel like guns that just want to point at my feet	[04:32]
benkay	i'm out here trying to kill some bison to feed my people and my damn gun just won't stop pointing at my foot	[04:32]
mircea_popescu	radan lol enjoy.	[04:32]
moiety	python can just go slither away until i have a dev chained to a raditor somewhere	[04:32]
duduqa	gotta go, folks, have a goof day/night	[04:32]
moiety	radiator*	[04:32]
duduqa	good	[04:32]
*	duduqa has quit ()	[04:33]
radan	wait	[04:33]
radan	let's say the payout for yes on a given bet is 1.5	[04:33]
radan	and no's is, say, 20	[04:33]
radan	what stops you from betting 1 on yes	[04:33]
radan	and .5 on 20	[04:34]
radan	then you either make back what you made or win 10 btc	[04:34]
radan	*what you spent	[04:34]
MisterE	heh http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/	[04:34]
benkay	radan: you've discovered hedging.	[04:35]
mircea_popescu	so now i'm getting spam from mastercoin.org	[04:36]
mircea_popescu	i guess that's what killfiles are for, but srsly...	[04:36]
moiety	did anjiecast ever come in?	[04:37]
mircea_popescu	sure.	[04:37]
moiety	what name? how did i miss that :/	[04:38]
mircea_popescu	princessnell	[04:38]
radan	actually, that's not possible on any of the bets up right now	[04:38]
radan	nvm	[04:38]
benkay	i scared her off, moiety	[04:38]
moiety	ah, lol i did see that :P	[04:39]
radan	unless the bet payouts increase in either direction	[04:39]
radan	that can't happen tho	[04:39]
Mats_cd03	you don't have to type every thought that comes into your head	[04:39]
moiety	it is a big channel, it was perhaps just all the eyes	[04:40]
radan	if some newbie reads the log and thinks he can print money based on what I said 10 mins ago, I'd like to help him out by telling him it's impossible	[04:40]
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mircea_popescu	o, some noobie ?	[04:41]
Mats_cd03	lol	[04:41]
moiety	i can serve cosmopolitans and offer to burn bras at the door if required	[04:41]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35116 @ 0.00095236 = 33.4431 BTC [-] {5}	[04:42]
TestingUnoDosTre	radan, the statement below the calculator is quite important to read "after fees, at current weight and assuming no one else bets"	[04:43]
kakobrekla	thats why its grayed out	[04:43]
mircea_popescu	lol	[04:43]
TestingUnoDosTre	hahahaha	[04:43]
TestingUnoDosTre	can you get your honkeys on http://bitbet.us/bet/792/btc-difficulty-increases-to-remain-under-16/	[04:44]
mike_c	everybody is going to get in on that proposed NBA finals bet as soon as it's approved.	[04:44]
mike_c	new ATH bitbet	[04:45]
MisterE	so you have to shore up your bets as it comes close to closing time for them	[04:45]
TestingUnoDosTre	like drop some more BTC on your same bet? what do you mean by shore up	[04:47]
radan	what stops people from arming militants or buying drugs with btc	[04:48]
radan	besides the low daily convertible volume	[04:48]
Mats_cd03	why should anything stop people from those things	[04:49]
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TestingUnoDosTre	because the phrase BTC was injected, duh	[04:49]
radan	so either they do happen	[04:49]
moiety	who says it is stopped radan?	[04:49]
radan	or the kind of people who do that kind of stuff don't know about bitcoin	[04:50]
radan	hmm	[04:50]
moiety	fed bought abrin off a teenager with btc	[04:50]
TestingUnoDosTre	abrin?	[04:50]
moiety	a toxin like ricin	[04:50]
TestingUnoDosTre	oh nevermind, read that article	[04:50]
TestingUnoDosTre	some kids are just... stupid	[04:50]
moiety	point is they can be stupid using fiat or btc, it's not the issue	[04:51]
the20year	How goes it?	[04:51]
MisterE	substitue "cash" for BTC	[04:51]
MisterE	same saem	[04:51]
MisterE	people buy drugs not BTC	[04:51]
moiety	drug related https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odEiLWJYBL4&feature=youtu.be also bonus bears	[04:54]
radan	bitcoin should start accepting bitcoin	[04:54]
radan	*al qaeda	[04:54]
radan	or maybe they already do	[04:54]
radan	but only the saudis know what address they use :/	[04:54]
TestingUnoDosTre	corrupt us politicians should start accepting bitcoin, or maybe they already do	[04:55]
radan	oooh	[04:55]
TestingUnoDosTre	would love to see a superPAC funded by a BTC donation...	[04:55]
TomServo	.d	[04:56]
ozbot	5.007 billion \| Next Diff in 1987 blocks \| Estimated Change: 49.6388% in 6d 22h 30m 43s	[04:56]
moiety	that video is actually circulating with fake subs re Fred Pherlps death	[04:56]
radan	the potential of all this is only just now dawning on me	[04:56]
moiety	Phelps*	[04:56]
benkay	lol radan	[04:57]
TestingUnoDosTre	radan, have you not pondered much on the real world before?	[04:57]
benkay	give it a year, the mindfucks slow down eventually but don't stop.	[04:57]
moiety	lol	[04:58]
benkay	you don't even have to wrap your head around the monster that was mpoe.	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	le minfuques	[04:58]
benkay	that's not french!	[04:58]
mircea_popescu	then why do you think i have this outrageous accent	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	you silly beenquey	[04:59]
benkay	you're simply outrageous, mircea_popescu	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	no	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	no i am no	[04:59]
benkay	murcha popaskew	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	no no no i am	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	yes i am.	[04:59]
mircea_popescu	;;google are you the simply outrageous brain specialist	[04:59]
gribble	You'll have to answer these outrageous interview ... - GeekWire: ; Husband: Pregnant, brain-dead wife wouldn't want to be on life ...: ; Why does modern medicine throw out our brains? - Outrageous ...:	[04:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33217 @ 0.00094812 = 31.4937 BTC [-] {4}	[05:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00094794 = 17.8687 BTC [-]	[05:01]
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*	Kushed (~Kushedout@adsl-69-227-110-178.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[05:06]
mike_c	the20year: how's business? any new houses?	[05:06]
moiety	has anyone here used Subversion?	[05:07]
*	joecool_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[05:07]
mike_c	probably lots (including me)	[05:07]
Apocalyptic	you should rather use git	[05:07]
moiety	its specifically for giving remote ssh access to one domain only rather than the whole hosting account. i can use git for that?	[05:09]
moiety	oh ofc nvm	[05:10]
moiety	whats wrong with subversion?	[05:10]
mike_c	nothing. just centralized vs. decentralized git/mercurial.	[05:10]
Apocalyptic	mike_c, also the fact that svn handles branches awfully	[05:11]
mike_c	well, mercurial can't do shallow clones.	[05:11]
mike_c	so there! :)	[05:11]
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MisterE	git > svn	[05:13]
Apocalyptic	^	[05:13]
the20year	mike_c: i'm not sure where hte last update was here. We have 6 total properties either purchased or in contract. closed on #4 today, supposed to close on #5 any day now. #6 closes the 7th of next month	[05:13]
mike_c	planning on more purchases?	[05:13]
moiety	i thought i always wanted decentralized on everything?	[05:13]
mike_c	i think you can build source control into an altcoin.	[05:14]
the20year	Yeah, definately. really would like to do a flip here soon but i don't have a any good candidates for that right now. Got a few duplexes I'm looking at, one is $27k the other is $39.9k	[05:14]
mike_c	the20year: and congrats on 6. the ipo was helpful then?	[05:14]
mike_c	wow, duplex for 27.	[05:15]
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Apocalyptic	the20year, where are you buying these flats ?	[05:15]
the20year	Central Ohio	[05:16]
the20year	Yes, very helpful , we've got a few great announcements coming up. Still have 100ish BTC left in reserves for another property	[05:16]
the20year	One of the candidates we barely miss was just re-listed. They bought it for $52k, I imagine put $10k or less in it and have it on the market for $119k	[05:16]
mike_c	i'll take the duplex for 27.	[05:17]
the20year	I have to take a look at it, we might be able to get it for $20k or so. they bought it in 2006 and managed it quite poorly. tenant burnt down a garage and they gave it up	[05:18]
the20year	Well , gave up on being a landlord	[05:18]
KRS-One	why	[05:18]
mike_c	having your garage burnt down could do that :)	[05:18]
the20year	I'm gonna bet they didn't carry insurance	[05:18]
the20year	We on the otherhand carry half a million dollars on each property, and then are applying for a $2m-$3m blanket for the company itself	[05:19]
benkay	!t h rent	[05:19]
assbot	[HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00525000 / 0.00557689 / 0.00563480 (119 shares, 0.66365036 BTC), 7D: 0.00520000 / 0.00543286 / 0.00568460 (2290 shares, 12.44126039 BTC), 30D: 0.00510111 / 0.00555894 / 0.00900001 (50160 shares, 278.83621664 BTC)	[05:19]
the20year	Well , it's half a mill per occupant, then premises of no less than 80%. best thing on earth would be for a house to be burnt to the ground without anyone hurt :D it's amazing to me how much they insure our properties for	[05:20]
assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!	[05:20]
the20year	The property we just bought for $70k has a rebuild value of something like $275k	[05:20]
the20year	the20year3 thecluck TheSeven thestringpuller ThickAsThieves thoa_afk	[05:20]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves check it out, this dood would like to make a bet provided mpoe-pr doesn't pay for it in bitcoin and she agrees that no bet can be made.	[05:21]
mircea_popescu	these people.	[05:21]
benkay	interesting how RENT performs as it converts its BTC-denominated assets to USD-denominated assets.	[05:21]
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the20year	and thankfully over all this volatility we've cashed out at higher BTC:USD values	[05:26]
rithm	bets on tops of bets!?!?!	[05:27]
nubbins`	just finished watching Contact	[05:28]
benkay	mircea_popescu: link?	[05:28]
nubbins`	not bad	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	bets of bets of beets	[05:28]
benkay	beetcoin	[05:28]
rithm	beets stain my teeth	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	benkay same ol, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=520882.msg5873896#msg5873896	[05:28]
benkay	it's purple!	[05:28]
mircea_popescu	but on the heels of the jimmothy O I BET YOU !!11 10 bitcents!11	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	kinda lulzy	[05:29]
mircea_popescu	o yeah, and he wanted odds.	[05:29]
chetty	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-24/poland-quietly-mobilizing-its-army-reservists	[05:30]
ozbot	Poland Is Quietly Mobilizing Its Army Reservists \| Zero Hedge	[05:30]
mircea_popescu	roughly the equivalent of mpoe-pr going tyre kicking around berkshire with stuff like "o this is a good investment you bigmouth ?!?! what sort of odds do you give bitcoi nbeats you ? 100:1 ? "	[05:30]
MisterE_	good movie nubbins`	[05:32]
MisterE_	sugar beets are good for all kinds of stuff	[05:32]
*	MisterE_ is now known as MisterE	[05:32]
the20year	i thought they began mobilization last week	[05:33]
MisterE	what will Romania do if fighting breaks out in the Ukraine with Crimea?	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	probably nothing	[05:33]
MisterE	I guess nobody will do nothing without EU / nato	[05:33]
mircea_popescu	romania doesn't give a shit, as a general policy	[05:33]
Apocalyptic	inb4 Russian army in timisoara	[05:34]
the20year	invade moldova?	[05:34]
mircea_popescu	nah	[05:34]
the20year	poland has 500k+ in reserve, mobilizing 7k for practice doesn't seem too huge to me	[05:34]
mircea_popescu	there's a us base in constanta, which i guess the us will have to defend	[05:34]
mircea_popescu	and the russians probably don't want to get aywya	[05:34]
mircea_popescu	and i very much doubt romania cxan be bothered ot invade either moldova or cernauti	[05:35]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 966 @ 0.00299999 = 2.898 BTC [+] {2}	[05:36]
chetty	this may be the war where everyone stayed home	[05:38]
mircea_popescu	they should prolly make a russian and us eve team	[05:39]
mircea_popescu	and have at it.	[05:39]
mircea_popescu	;;prevdiffchange	[05:40]
gribble	17.80244	[05:40]
the20year	what movie was that the basis of?	[05:40]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20138 @ 0.00094797 = 19.0902 BTC [+]	[05:40]
the20year	1 on 1 robot wars to settle boundary disputes?	[05:40]
mircea_popescu	i think a bunch of different ones	[05:42]
mircea_popescu	.d	[05:42]
ozbot	5.007 billion \| Next Diff in 1984 blocks \| Estimated Change: 31.0849% in 9d 11h 40m 22s	[05:42]
benkay	robo combat's a bit of a trope at this point, the20year	[05:42]
the20year	Robot jox	[05:42]
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MisterE	Pacific Rim was forgettable	[05:44]
MisterE	which is too bad	[05:44]
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nubbins`	heard it's a piece of shit	[05:46]
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nubbins`	trying to choose between wall street, glengarry glen ross, episode 1 of new cosmos, or bed	[05:47]
mike_c	always glengarry glen ross	[05:48]
ThickAsThieves	cosmos will put you to bed fo sho	[05:48]
the20year	where is the new cosmos	[05:48]
Apocalyptic	heard it's a piece of shit << it's way worse actually	[05:49]
ThickAsThieves	pacific rim was more entertaining than cosmos ep1	[05:49]
ThickAsThieves	i watched gravity last night, that was actually pretty good	[05:50]
joecool	i should cop that	[05:50]
ThickAsThieves	it is what you think it is, but somehow it doesnt suck	[05:50]
MisterE	glengarry glen ross++	[05:50]
ThickAsThieves	if you have netflix, watch pontypool	[05:51]
ThickAsThieves	that's a cool one	[05:51]
nubbins`	saw it	[05:51]
nubbins`	that's the audio virus whatsit?	[05:51]
ThickAsThieves	yeah	[05:51]
*	nubbins` nods	[05:51]
nubbins`	cool idea	[05:51]
nubbins`	reminded me of snowcrash	[05:51]
nubbins`	but without the statutory rape	[05:52]
MisterE	uhh this? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1226681/	[05:52]
ThickAsThieves	Safety Not Guaranteed wasnt bad	[05:53]
ThickAsThieves	Teeth is fun	[05:53]
ThickAsThieves	vagina dentata!	[05:54]
*	Now talking on #bitcoin-assets	[11:57]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://log.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com \|\| http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com	[11:57]
*	Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014	[11:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05550002 = 0.222 BTC [-] {3}	[12:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.065 = 0.26 BTC [-] {3}	[12:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	ya kakobrekla one nao needs pw for http://bitcoin-assets.com/ ?	[12:08]
mircea_popescu	lnostdal http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/ seems to still work	[12:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.0031 = 0.3007 BTC [+]	[12:18]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00095148 = 19.3626 BTC [+] {2}	[12:20]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00631877 = 0.3159 BTC [+]	[12:25]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00095622 = 5.2114 BTC [+] {2}	[12:26]
B007	good morning	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	hi	[12:27]
B007	sleep well?	[12:27]
mircea_popescu	not bad	[12:28]
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davout	mircea_popescu: admin//twocansandastring42	[12:44]
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cazalla	;;seen tiberiusiv	[12:59]
gribble	tiberiusiv was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 46 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 30 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: you cant read english paragraphs	[12:59]
cazalla	ok, so he gave up	[13:00]
B007	http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bitcoin	[13:05]
ozbot	Google Trends	[13:05]
jurov	cazalla he leveled through tiberiusv up to tiberiusxi	[13:05]
jurov	and then he prolly gave up	[13:05]
jurov	;;seen tiberiusxi	[13:05]
gribble	I have not seen tiberiusxi.	[13:05]
jurov	;;seen tiberiusxii	[13:05]
gribble	I have not seen tiberiusxii.	[13:05]
jurov	;;seen tiberiusv	[13:05]
gribble	I have not seen tiberiusv.	[13:05]
jurov	or i remember badly?	[13:05]
mircea_popescu	davout hm ?	[13:06]
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davout	mircea_popescu: "ya kakobrekla one nao needs pw for http://bitcoin-assets.com/ ?"	[13:14]
*	only_ is now known as only	[13:15]
mircea_popescu	a haha	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	poor guy	[13:17]
mircea_popescu	one small akismet and that's it	[13:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12922 @ 0.00095235 = 12.3063 BTC [-]	[13:19]
B007	seems that price follows interest	[13:22]
mircea_popescu	seems so.	[13:23]
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VanCleef	neat -	[13:36]
VanCleef	Is Russia ready to cut up its plastic? After Visa and MasterCard stopped processing some Russian transactions in response to U.S. sanctions, Moscow says it could launch a homegrown payment system that could be ready in as little as six months	[13:36]
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blackwhite	morning guys	[13:53]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00095235 = 4.2856 BTC [-]	[13:54]
Diablo-D3	VanCleef: putincoin.	[13:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0031 = 0.155 BTC [+]	[13:56]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07098998 = 1.1358 BTC [+] {2}	[14:13]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.07007857 = 1.9622 BTC [-] {2}	[14:17]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.07 = 1.54 BTC [-]	[14:18]
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nubbins`	http://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2014/	[14:36]
ozbot	BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014	[14:36]
nubbins`	getting juicier	[14:36]
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mircea_popescu	$vwap s.mg	[14:43]
mpexbot	mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.000154 high: 0.000154 low: 0.000154 volume: 1050 btc: 0.1617 7 day: average: 0.00011355 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 8050 btc: 0.9140788 30 day: average: 0.0001282 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 13282 btc: 1.7026868	[14:43]
mircea_popescu	month's volume is 1.7btc tho. someone could easily manipulate it	[14:43]
jurov	hopefully it will ship before october	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	“Assuming that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change is a colossal misunderstanding."	[14:44]
jurov	and volume goes up then	[14:44]
Neil	mircea_popescu: MisterE no actually, betting both sides is the way to play. << I think, judging from the public histories on bitbet, that this is very poor advice. It seems that waiting pays; I think bitbet probably needs harsher time decay than linear.	[14:44]
mircea_popescu	Neil seriously ? got any data to support this ?	[14:45]
jurov	Neil, example?	[14:45]
Neil	Which part? One at a time.	[14:45]
jurov	"waiting pays"	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	inasmuch as we're asking the same thing lol, youcan do both at a time	[14:45]
mircea_popescu	poor advice/waiting pays/harsher than linear. pick one.	[14:45]
Neil	I haven't seen a single example of anyone (same output address) betting on bitbet making money. There are numerous examples to the contrary.	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	o.o	[14:46]
Neil	excuse me	[14:46]
Neil	betting both ways	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	this seems completely irrelevant to the discussion	[14:46]
Neil	Well that's 1 out of 2. So 50% sofar	[14:46]
Neil	50% isn't normally considered irrelevant	[14:46]
mircea_popescu	much akin to saying "i've never seen anyone in a green tshirt depositing more money in the bank than they were taking out"	[14:46]
Neil	OK, evidence to the contrary?	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	evidence to the contrary of an unsupported thesis is not necessary.	[14:47]
Neil	I rest my case.	[14:47]
mircea_popescu	but i'm just saying, "same address" is an irrelevant selection here.	[14:47]
Mats_cd03	the burden of evidence lies on the individual making the claim	[14:48]
chetty	would you use the same address to bet both sides?	[14:48]
Neil	Adn the 8BTC bet at the last minute of the "16% bet" just in the last 24 hrs supports my other claim of "betting at the last minute, under linear decay, pays".	[14:48]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: that's the gamble. someone with pocket change could swing it either way	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	Neil that's an outlier.	[14:48]
Neil	So I happily await a refutation.	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	obviously in a case where a 3 month bet was resolved in 4 days waiting pays o.O	[14:48]
mircea_popescu	just as long as you don't wait more than 4 days	[14:48]
Neil	mircea_popescu: Are you claiming some fudge for the first 4 days would fix it? You're smarter than that.	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	no lol. i'm claiming that on the basis of picking some outliers you can't make general statements.	[14:49]
mircea_popescu	"footwear should be made to support taller women because you should see this swede i'm dating"	[14:50]
jurov	Neil that exact case would require manual intervention "o difficulty prediction is > 16% ? drop the weight sharply"	[14:50]
Neil	I'll just say that, watching bitbet for a while, as I have, I feel waiting pays. It is my belief that it would benefit from faster decay.	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	ok but it helps if you bolster that authority claim with actual data	[14:50]
jurov	such meddling would be insane	[14:50]
mircea_popescu	"on this set of 100 consecutive bets, the results for X behaviour are .1 and for Y behaviour are .04"	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	that works.	[14:51]
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Neil	http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/	[14:51]
ozbot	BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	it helps even more if you publish your method along the dataset, then op can apply it to other sets see if behaviour converges	[14:51]
mircea_popescu	and so we're doing research rather than derpage.	[14:52]
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Neil	I am willing to bet an insane amount that 1K4Fs will lose on his two-way bet. And big-time.	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	so... bet it ?	[14:52]
Neil	It doesn't really matter how the chips land.	[14:52]
nubbins`	^^	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	derivative bets. ftw.	[14:52]
Neil	mircea_popescu: Don't be daft. One can't take the opposite of his bet.	[14:52]
mircea_popescu	nono, you can make a derivative bet.	[14:53]
nubbins`	The bet resolves as YES if 1K4Fs will lose on his two-way bet	[14:53]
Neil	He paid a 1 BTC gratiuity to bitbet to let later bettors enjoy some free beers.	[14:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.068 = 0.136 BTC [+]	[14:53]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 9988657.00000000/7186081 367.70	[14:54]
gribble	291.327176162	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	unless i'm doing this badly, should the bet come out as yes he's making ~300 btc	[14:54]
Neil	mircea_popescu: A big, and time-dependent, "if".	[14:54]
mircea_popescu	uh	[14:55]
Neil	Let's wait and see. I'm quite happy to do so.	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	but it reduces to his either winning or losing the bet	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	which... i have no idea what that's supposed to prove ?	[14:55]
chetty	isn't IF what betting is all about?	[14:55]
Neil	I don't think it matters what happens. No way is he winning 100 BTC.	[14:55]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 9988642.00000000/28156083 74.78	[14:56]
gribble	11.1421021653	[14:56]
Neil	(initial stake)	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	so he's bet 99 btc, is insured for 11 btc (currently) and stands to gain 291 currently.	[14:56]
mircea_popescu	this seems reasonably ok. and if more people gang on yes, his 291 diminishes but his insurance increases	[14:57]
mircea_popescu	suppose there's a 500 btc bet on yes	[14:57]
Neil	Is it Atoi or something similar has done similar both-way bets on bitbet quite a lot? Each one lost, which is to be expected, given my claim that waiting pays.	[14:57]
mircea_popescu	but this is neither here nor there, much like the green shirt in bank thing	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	you can select any arbitrary pair of yes/no bets and pretend they're made by the same person	[14:58]
mircea_popescu	for all you know, this is actually true.	[14:58]
nubbins`	The bet resolves as YES if the man in the bank is wearing a green shirt	[14:58]
Neil	mircea_popescu: Given your stake in the process I don't expect you to agree with me. But I think the facts speak for themselves. If someone believes 2-way betting pays they're welcome to continue doing it.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	the trouble is that i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm discussing those facts.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	and it'd seem they're not really that factual.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	but this aside : why would you figure my stake would prevent me from agreeing with the facts ?	[14:59]
Neil	OK. One example to the contrary will suffice. Happy to post 1 example to support my position.	[14:59]
mircea_popescu	seems logically the other way around	[14:59]
VanCleef	erm i thought rockminer was ipoing tomorrow noon china time and they just announce that the ipo is already over and all shares have sold	[15:00]
VanCleef	what a load of bs	[15:00]
Mats_cd03	lol	[15:00]
mircea_popescu	Neil are you aware that the house wins on some bets ?	[15:00]
Neil	mircea_popescu: But of course. I'm not stupid. The 16% is a good example: the house wins the more people rationally take all that is available "for (near) free".	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	nono you don't take my meaning	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	the house bets BOTH SIDES on ALL BETS	[15:01]
Neil	When everyone scraps over the leftovers the house takes the fee.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	during some months it comes AHEAD, which means the dual-betting system actually works.	[15:01]
Neil	Yeah that just gets it started, and one is given to the bet originator, so it's not the house really.	[15:01]
mircea_popescu	this is a larger dataset than one example.	[15:01]
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mircea_popescu	this hardly weakens my point...	[15:02]
Mats_cd03	i just read the copy on rockminer.com	[15:02]
Neil	50% doesn't weaken the point? OK.	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	it would win EVEN MORE if it kept both sides.	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	duh?	[15:02]
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Mats_cd03	dude can handle running a bidness but cant hire a fluent english speaker	[15:02]
VanCleef	just another scam	[15:02]
mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 spam is not misspelled because the spammers can't hire editors. spam is misspelled because that selects for idiots, and they are looking for idiots (false positives are very expensive for them)	[15:03]
Neil	mircea_popescu: I'm still waiting for your counterexample to my claim.	[15:03]
Mats_cd03	or pay attention in english class, apparently	[15:03]
Mats_cd03	you may be right mircea_popescu	[15:03]
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mircea_popescu	i think you'll have to re-read this later because i can't produce examples if you randomly reject examples.	[15:03]
VanCleef	http://gadgets.ndtv.com/internet/news/first-bitcoin-derivative-announced-by-tera-exchange-499997	[15:04]
ozbot	First Bitcoin derivative announced by Tera Exchange \| NDTV Gadgets	[15:04]
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Neil	I don't have anything against bitbet. I like the site. Just saying it how I see it.	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	well no problem, but what you're saying doesn't actually make sense.	[15:04]
Neil	OK :) Whatever.	[15:04]
asciilifeform	spam is misspelled because that selects for idiots << novel hypothesis. traditional thought holds that it is to evade (or, optionally, throw out of calibration) bayesian filter.	[15:04]
Mats_cd03	can you demonstrate why linear decay is inappropriate, and why exponential (or w.e) decay is appropriate?	[15:04]
mircea_popescu	VanCleef you know we lolled at that shit like five times already, getting stale.	[15:04]
Mats_cd03	besides, you know, your intuition	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that hypothesis was only seriously considered by the baesian cultists.	[15:05]
asciilifeform	(of course, a well-written filter just locks on to characteristic mis-spellings...)	[15:05]
VanCleef	sorry still a bit new to me	[15:05]
VanCleef	i guess its a joke	[15:05]
mircea_popescu	VanCleef jus' grep the log, it's there	[15:05]
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mircea_popescu	Mats_cd03 Neil not that there's anything wrong with intuition, it's how great things start. it still has to be actually checked with data.	[15:06]
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nubbins`	asciilifeform: i always questioned why spammers thought I'd consider an email hawking "v1agr4" as a legitimate source for prescription medication	[15:08]
nubbins`	there might be something to this	[15:08]
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nubbins`	mouth-breathers of the world, meantime, think "hmm, i could use d1ck p1ll5..."	[15:09]
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nubbins`	"i'd love to turn my peanut into a banana" etc	[15:09]
asciilifeform	meanwhile,	[15:10]
asciilifeform	http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/justice/one-world-trade-center-jump-stunt	[15:10]
ozbot	Four men arrested in One World Trade Center jump stunt - CNN.com	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	and what's good for people who really believe "make mone yat home by cashing these checks" and "inhearitence!!!" is also good for... "investors"	[15:10]
asciilifeform	anyone remember mathias rust ?	[15:10]
Neil	mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/619/bitcoin-difficulty-at-or-above-2b-before-feb/ 16tA0 (apologies for remebering wrong above) bets 11 and 8 (19 total) gets less than 14 back. I claim that is typical, and can support with more examples. Can you give me even one example of a two-way bet like this, for similar amounts in size, that was a profit for the bettor?	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	can't say as a ido	[15:10]
mircea_popescu	Neil why, yes, i can. here :	[15:10]
Neil	(i.e. where yes and no bets were simliar in size)	[15:11]
asciilifeform	;;google mathias rust	[15:11]
gribble	Mathias Rust - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Kremlin Caper: Mathias Rust's Landing on Red Square \| People ...: ; BBC News - Mathias Rust: German teenager who flew to Red Square:	[15:11]
mircea_popescu	a) bitbet house bets both sides on all bets, always ; b) in spite of giving away one of the addresses, bitbet house still actually makes bank some months, and overall is just about even ; c) ergo, double betting can be productive.	[15:11]
asciilifeform	http://www.pri.org/stories/2012-12-07/remembering-mathias-rusts-flight-red-square	[15:12]
ozbot	Remembering Mathias Rust's Flight to Red Square \| Public Radio International	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	obviously if bitbet house simply kept both addreses it'd actually be ahead by now. which makes it a fine example of how you can make money betting both sides early.	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	an example which is put there deliberately, by design, by me,	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	and an example which people still have difficulty following	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	(not that i mind, i guess, more btc for me)	[15:12]
Neil	A bettor other than bitbet. Bitbet gives one side to the originator of course, so I don't even understand your example. Of course, you may have smart decision makers who decide whether a given proposition is more likely to turn out + or -, but that's beside the point. Real-life non-bibet bettor in size (say > 0.5 BTC each side)? Just one example?	[15:12]
mircea_popescu	well try to understand it.	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	rather than simply discard it.	[15:13]
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Neil	I'm trying hard to understand somehting that doesn't exist. Waiting for proof.	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	well ok, this'll have to wait then.	[15:13]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, here's a girly with snow on her tits	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	http://31.media.tumblr.com/88592d7877ee342801c347b98a0d2038/tumblr_mm1dl2X38s1s0ryyvo1_500.jpg	[15:14]
asciilifeform	'Four New York-area men were arrested Monday after a base jumping stunt from atop One World Trade Center in September, police said. James Brady, Kyle Hartwell, Marko Markovich, and Andrew Rossig have been charged with burglary, reckless endangerment and jumping from a structure, according to a statement issued by NYPD Commissioner William Bratton.'	[15:14]
VanCleef	mmmmi'd liek to pee on those tits	[15:14]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i recall a us that'd have just laughed.	[15:15]
asciilifeform	1987: 'Eventually, Rust saw Moscow. At first, he wanted to land in the Kremlin. But then he decided to try to land in Red Square, which was full of people... Rust was soon arrested, and convicted of illegally crossing the Soviet Border, and "hooliganism." He was sentenced to four years in prison. The case caused quite a stir in Russia. For a while, Red Square was jokingly referred to as Moscow's "third airport	[15:15]
asciilifeform	."'	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	why so serious, soviet ?	[15:15]
mircea_popescu	aha. perrrfect reference then	[15:16]
VanCleef	do you like ethereum mircea or na?	[15:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62015 = 1.2403 BTC [-] {2}	[15:16]
mircea_popescu	VanCleef i dun see why it'd be useful.	[15:16]
asciilifeform	elsewhere,	[15:19]
asciilifeform	http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/03/ukrainians-on-verge-of-nervous-breakdown.html	[15:19]
ozbot	ClubOrlov: Ukrainians on the verge of a nervous breakdown	[15:19]
asciilifeform	'ever-amusing Russian Liberal Democrat leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky has proposed dividing up Western Ukraine between Poland, Hungary and Romania. Poland quickly responded that it has no interest in annexing former Eastern Poland. I can't blame them.'	[15:20]
jurov	yes i put that here yest, complete with map	[15:20]
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VanCleef	lol nervous breakdown	[15:20]
jurov	yes, the politics around here tends to get divorced from reality	[15:23]
jurov	in slovakia the main topic was protection of traditional family recently, including changing the constitution	[15:24]
jurov	war imminent on our doorstep? dun have time for that	[15:24]
Neil	mircea_popescu: So regarding http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/ and our friend 1K4Fs, I'd be happy to bet real BTC that 1K4Fs loses money regardless of outcome. It's extremely likely (>90%) and given an integral of payoff against probability, I think it's clear betting both ways is a losing proposition. Well, to me at least, which is all that matters.	[15:24]
mircea_popescu	Neil so make a bet.	[15:27]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 42 @ 0.11950724 = 5.0193 BTC [-]	[15:27]
Neil	mircea_popescu: But it's only you on the other side. What do you suggest?	[15:27]
Neil	Evens?	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	i suggest you make a bitbet, as you describe it, and ima bet a little myself.	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	and whoever else wants to	[15:28]
Neil	A bitbet on a bitbet?	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	hmm jurov you getting pms ?	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	Neil hence my "derivative bets ftw"	[15:28]
mircea_popescu	i dun see the problem with it, seems a legitimate controversy.	[15:28]
jurov	not from you seems	[15:28]
Neil	But I'd want to bet 5 BTC against reasonable odds, and bitbet doesn't offer that. Only you can.	[15:29]
Neil	silence	[15:30]
mircea_popescu	o you want fixed odds ?	[15:32]
Neil	Well that depends on what they are. That 1K4Fs makes money right?	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	well yeah	[15:32]
mircea_popescu	but then i'd have to hedge it somehow because clearly it's contingent on how the bet plays out.	[15:32]
Neil	Well you wouldn't be able to hedge it, but it's off-market price.	[15:33]
Neil	Which is my point.	[15:33]
Neil	s/but/because/	[15:33]
mircea_popescu	i'll take even odds on the proposition that 1k4fs makes money irrespective of result	[15:33]
mircea_popescu	but that's impossib le to ascertain	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	unless you're happy with a (291 + 11)/2 > 99	[15:34]
Neil	How so? It's easy to ascertain from the final result whether dude made money or not.	[15:34]
mircea_popescu	derp	[15:35]
mircea_popescu	so just because he went on long odds you're telling me bitbet is broken ? dude wanted the long odds, what can i say	[15:35]
Neil	mircea_popescu: My claim and offer stands. Let's leave it at that. :)	[15:35]
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mircea_popescu	but your claim mostly consists of a large "bitcoin wont be over 10k" leg with a tiny "this other thing" leg	[15:36]
mircea_popescu	you can take most of that out on the market as is.	[15:36]
Neil	mircea_popescu: Happy to entertain any other bet, of over 0.5 BTC per side, where someone has bet both ways. I'm not holding my breath, given the performance so far...	[15:37]
Neil	(bet over 0.5 both ways that is)	[15:37]
nubbins`	hmm	[15:37]
nubbins`	so, say, betting 10btc on one side and 0.6btc on the other would fit the criteria?	[15:37]
mircea_popescu	why over .5 ?!	[15:37]
Neil	nubbins`: I'd prefer more evenly weighted. The 0.5 was to eliminate trash.	[15:38]
nubbins`	Neil: well, what, equal amounts on both sides? within 10%?	[15:38]
nubbins`	list your conditions!	[15:38]
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nubbins`	let's create some specs here	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	trash o.O	[15:39]
mircea_popescu	statistics is always abused ;/	[15:39]
*	nubbins` rolls a garbage can around -assets collecting amounts < 0.5	[15:39]
nubbins`	free this time, next pick-up you gotta pay	[15:39]
Neil	Where the minimum is 0.5 and where larger size is no more than double smaller size, with > 1 month to go sounds OK, but would like a concrete example before finally comitting	[15:39]
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Neil	I think my point stands though - anyone who has bet 2-ways for "decent" size has lost. I have several examples and haven't seen a single counterexample.	[15:41]
Neil	The dude betting 100 BTC both ways on some coin toss was a great specimen of how not to make money on bitbet.	[15:42]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 43 @ 0.05338906 = 2.2957 BTC [-] {3}	[15:42]
mircea_popescu	that we readily agree. coin toss and weight doesn't mix	[15:43]
mircea_popescu	should have not put weight on that bet.	[15:43]
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Neil	mircea_popescu: Though I think he actually got some contra bets late in the game, which meant he came out near break-even, by luck of said coin toss!	[15:43]
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mircea_popescu	i suppose in a way it was a gamble, guy risked 2 btc on the theory "bitbet bettors are idiots"	[15:44]
mircea_popescu	he got to pay the house 2 btc for this presumption	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	as he should. all is well.	[15:45]
Neil	Not so smart. I wouldn't bet that.	[15:45]
mircea_popescu	all the other smarter-than-life players ended up in the same bin.	[15:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00095177 = 4.4733 BTC [-]	[15:45]
Neil	But I'd also support anyone's right to bet that...	[15:45]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 19 @ 0.11950724 = 2.2706 BTC [-]	[15:46]
Neil	"You" talk about the dynamic of bitbet settling to reasonable odds, but a counterpoint is the example fo the recent 200 BTC bet on the 10k USD bet.	[15:46]
mircea_popescu	why is that a counterpoint ?	[15:46]
Neil	The outcome odds before and after are massively different. But both stuck.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	so ?	[15:47]
Neil	(i.e. no new bets have come in to counterbalance). I don't believe the "market" odds moved that much overnight. Friction is high.	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	well ok you don't believe	[15:47]
mircea_popescu	but i mean what's in a belief	[15:48]
Neil	The Berkshire bet is another example, I think. The odds are higher that 3% (perhaps 15%) but friction prevents realization.	[15:48]
Neil	than	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	what friction is that ?	[15:48]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin is frictionless.	[15:48]
Neil	Friction of trusting a dude with the initials MP, friction of knowing the bet exists and the odds, friction of knowing the odds can change underneath you, friction of tying your money up for 1 year, ... I could go on.	[15:49]
mircea_popescu	you could, but i'd shrug	[15:50]
Neil	Friction of getting into "frictionless" bitcoin.	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	this is like telling me friction prevents wallstreet from pricing gold, because fucktards in namibia have no ws access	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	who in carnation cares.	[15:50]
Neil	Then please explain how 200 BTC come in, and nothing else happens.	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	what am i, god ?	[15:50]
mircea_popescu	i have no idea.	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	but i can't dispute the facts on the basis of my own opinion either.	[15:51]
Neil	Clearly the market is thin. No, I have no idea either, but clearly there are limits in our fun little world. Which is good :)	[15:51]
mircea_popescu	so were the implied odds wrong before or are the implied odds wrong now ?	[15:51]
Neil	Both, clearly.	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	if anything, the fascinating thing with that 200 is that it didn't land on the no side of berkshire	[15:52]
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Neil	But bid-offer is too high.	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	which... you'd think that's a massive attractor	[15:52]
Neil	Apparently not.	[15:52]
mircea_popescu	so then... what, the guy with 200 didn't know about berkshire ?	[15:53]
Neil	mircea_popescu: So, somehting I've wondered. Do the "bitbet" terms at MPEX prevent bitbet branching out into other revenue streams?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	or couldn't trust mp or couldn't lock his btc up for months ?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	Neil specifically ?	[15:53]
Neil	Suppose bitbet decided to do fixed odds betting (taking on risk on the house). Is that "within the spec"?	[15:53]
mircea_popescu	can't do that as a zero asset corp.	[15:53]
Neil	So you're saying no?	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	the correct way for this to work would be for someone (respected and competent as a bookie) to start a fund	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	and do his bitbet bets and report revenue	[15:54]
Neil	Sure. I respect you believe that.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	basically the business of the bookie equals the actual bookie.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	it	[15:54]
Neil	But as a random Joe sixpack reading the specs, and not knowing who you are etc., it's not really clear how bitbet can evolve, indeed even if it can.	[15:54]
mircea_popescu	s one of those, like plastic surgery or massage	[15:55]
Neil	Which isn't to imply it doesn't have a great future.	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	well evolution and morphing aren't the same thing.	[15:55]
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mircea_popescu	people keep changing things randomly because of this unwarranted and unwelcome expectation that "new and therefore better"	[15:55]
mircea_popescu	irl doens't work that way.	[15:55]
Neil	So as a prospective investor, given the terms, I'm thinking "Where can this go, how can it expand?" And it seems limited. Which may not be a bad thing.	[15:56]
mircea_popescu	expansion in that sense is not useful for an investor.	[15:56]
Neil	Walking down a one-way street isn't useful either.	[15:57]
Neil	Not saying it is.	[15:57]
Neil	Just saying "where's the flexibility"?	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	nothing forces you into a 100% bitbet portofolio.	[15:57]
Neil	Of course.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	but consider this : suppose tomorrow some great[ly idiotic] new manager takes over from me, and decides to expand bitbet by buying wynn hotels.	[15:57]
mircea_popescu	the forums will be extremely excited at this development.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	this obviously will force a modification o the contract, making bitbet a nz0 now.	[15:58]
mircea_popescu	this also means the share will go up, say 100x	[15:58]
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mircea_popescu	and it finally means that about 70% of that value is actual assets.	[15:58]
Neil	Trying to understand what's "in-scope" and what isn't. I personally don't think it's clear. I respect your desire to run a clean, auditable (via blockchain) operation. But the future isn't clear at all, to me anyway.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	then two years later wynn hotels hit a slow patch, get sold for scrap	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	investor has gone from this position where he realises gains each month	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	to this position where he jsut lost a good 90% of his value	[15:59]
Neil	Sure, no argument at all.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	so what's in scope is running the court system of bitcoin	[15:59]
Neil	I'm not disputing the setup, I actually like it.	[15:59]
davout	mircea_popescu: how would bb buy anything in the first place ?	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	what isn't in scope is anything else.	[15:59]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00095177 = 36.0721 BTC [-] {2}	[15:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012798 = 0.6399 BTC [-] {7}	[15:59]
Neil	I want to understand better what can happen.	[15:59]
mircea_popescu	davout hypotetical hypoteticals are hypopotami	[16:00]
davout	mircea_popescu: doesn't your argument boil down to : "assets are risky because they can depreciate" ?	[16:01]
mircea_popescu	the argument boils down to "fully distributed, non-asset hodling btc corps are a better risk class"	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	which they are.	[16:02]
jayk	oh	[16:02]
mircea_popescu	not saying asset-holding is bad for all time or anything, but it is riskier.	[16:02]
davout	tbh that sounds more like your opinion than an argument	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	well ok.	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	which part, the different risk class part or the sorting of the classes part ?	[16:04]
davout	your evaluation of the relative risk	[16:04]
mircea_popescu	yeah that part is my opinion.	[16:05]
nubbins`	http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/18-month-sentence-for-inmate-involved-in-hmp-riot-1.2584421	[16:05]
ozbot	18-month sentence for inmate involved in HMP riot - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News	[16:05]
nubbins`	"In the end, the rioters traded the sole hostage in exchange for two cigarettes before surrendering to police."	[16:05]
davout	imho ZA corps are quite vulnerable to issues related to management since basically the management is the company	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	davout which makes the bad actors quickly visible	[16:05]
davout	there's also the bus factor	[16:05]
nubbins`	they have buses in romania?!	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	asset-based corps dampen management incompetence, allowing outright thieves to run for a longer time than the yshou;d	[16:05]
mircea_popescu	bitcointalk is full of examples.	[16:05]
davout	but i do agree that the improvement of natural selection is a good thing	[16:06]
davout	i agree with that	[16:06]
mircea_popescu	davout from what i recall, some random idiot opining was claiming that getting the average bitcoin exchange at the safety rate of the average human would be a great gain in security.	[16:06]
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novusordo	i'm having trouble with coming up with any good examples of non-asset holding corps preceding bitcoin	[16:07]
asciilifeform	safety rate of the average human << ?	[16:07]
mircea_popescu	supported by evidence this strange view oif his, seeing how bitcoin exchanges have the life expectancy of trisomic neonates	[16:07]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yeah something based on how likely it is for the avg 20yo to bite it	[16:07]
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mircea_popescu	somehow not mentioning micromorts or anything	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	because you know, little train engines that can, these people.	[16:09]
asciilifeform	i suppose it also matters what is meant by death. i.e. many fiat corps would become fiat corpses, and rather indistinguishable from gox, if disconnected from usg printer.	[16:09]
mircea_popescu	that part wasn't covered.	[16:09]
nubbins`	http://www.thefloatingworld.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/LSD-cat-700px.jpg	[16:10]
mircea_popescu	novusordo yeah, i believe this is a mpex innovation.	[16:10]
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davout	mircea_popescu: who was arguing that ?	[16:13]
nubbins`	http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/cash-theft-from-rnc-locker-remains-unsolved-1.2585148	[16:13]
ozbot	Cash theft from RNC locker remains unsolved - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News	[16:13]
nubbins`	GOOD TO KNOW	[16:13]
mircea_popescu	eh we discussed here a little bit back lemme see	[16:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299999 = 0.365 BTC [+] {3}	[16:15]
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Mats_cd03	lol nubbins` blotter?	[16:15]
nubbins`	nod :D	[16:15]
nubbins`	unsoaked, natch	[16:15]
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Mats_cd03	after you lay it, get close and take a deep breath	[16:16]
Mats_cd03	is the cats meow	[16:16]
mircea_popescu	davout well i can't find it now. some kid from the "community" of self-proclaimed experts wrote some sort of article/"white paper" on how bitcoin exchanges should do x y z to get their risk of blowing up in line with the risk of the average 20yo getting hit by a bus	[16:17]
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davout	sounds interdasting	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-03-2014#563385	[16:18]
mircea_popescu	smarter people than me halping.	[16:18]
davout	mircea_popescu: thank you kind sir	[16:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00095177 = 3.3312 BTC [-]	[16:19]
Mats_cd03	that paste doesnt exist anymore	[16:19]
davout	aw the paste is gone	[16:19]
mircea_popescu	talktotat.	[16:19]
nubbins`	Mats_cd03: would actually be a neat business to get into, supplying blotter paper	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	it was stupid anyway	[16:20]
nubbins`	a tough nut to crack tho, for sure	[16:20]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21218 @ 0.00095315 = 20.2239 BTC [+] {4}	[16:20]
davout	didn't know gox hosted some pastie-clone as well	[16:20]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` isn't it traditionally reserved for the girlfriend of the chemist making the dope ?	[16:20]
Mats_cd03	as i understand it, the best market are the sr clones	[16:20]
Mats_cd03	^is	[16:20]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: as it happens, the best i've tried has been white-on-white (no design at all)	[16:21]
nubbins`	Mats_cd03: i haven't been keeping track of the clones at all	[16:21]
ThickAsThieves	http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/03/24/color-rotsnake_custom-d48b779a38b868da75a48c9b1e7e5515a0a644cd-s40-c85.gif	[16:21]
nubbins`	my eyes	[16:22]
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ThickAsThieves	you now have the visually transmitted virus	[16:22]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu: for that matter, i don't think the chemist generally lays the blotter at all	[16:22]
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Mats_cd03	me neither, although it makes sense - its not actually illegal in a lot of jurisdictions (the paper, anyway)	[16:22]
nubbins`	simply produces vials of liquid	[16:22]
nubbins`	Mats_cd03: plenty of blotter art on ebay, even	[16:23]
mircea_popescu	s/chemist/whoever lays	[16:23]
nubbins`	lots of alex grey and r. crumb	[16:23]
nubbins`	crumb's artwork is cool, burns me out	[16:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07299999 = 0.292 BTC [+]	[16:24]
nubbins`	http://theartofattraxion.com/works/robert-crumbs-history-of-women/	[16:25]
ozbot	Robert Crumb’s History of Women « TheArtofAttraxion X Because your body is a canvas.	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	;;google a crumb of frisco	[16:25]
gribble	Crumb N Get It Cookie Factory - Frisco, Texas - Bakery \| Facebook: ; 12 State Farm Agents in Frisco, Texas: ; Agents in Frisco, CO - State Farm Insurance:	[16:25]
mircea_popescu	darn son.	[16:25]
novusordo	https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=528464.msg5891852#msg5891852 lol	[16:26]
ozbot	ROCKMINER - miners using GEN3 ASICMINER chips	[16:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.05278955 = 1.003 BTC [-] {2}	[16:27]
asciilifeform	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-24/banker-suicides-leave-industry-concerned-as-coroners-investigate.html	[16:28]
kakobrekla	too much chemtrails	[16:28]
Mats_cd03	lol	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	http://theartofattraxion.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/robert-crumb-history-of-women-w-magazine-3-1.jpg	[16:28]
mircea_popescu	i believe the guy never saw a russ meyer film.	[16:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.068 = 0.204 BTC [+]	[16:29]
nubbins`	http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8142/7471348400_d84ea92e46_o.jpg	[16:29]
nubbins`	"R. Crumb's ideal woman: the 'true amazon'"	[16:30]
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mircea_popescu	lmao at all this "genetically superior both physically and mentally"	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	then you're regaled something from the roadside freakshwo cca 1905	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	srsly nao, caliban is never smart. ever.	[16:30]
mircea_popescu	caliban is subhuman.	[16:31]
Mats_cd03	hahaha	[16:31]
nubbins`	heh	[16:31]
nubbins`	crumb is fucked	[16:31]
nubbins`	he's published books full of shit like this	[16:31]
nubbins`	check this one: http://rottenindenmark.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/img_4989.jpg	[16:31]
mircea_popescu	nubbins` http://trilema.com/2009/un-crumb-de-frisco/	[16:32]
nubbins`	HEH	[16:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.62006666 = 3.7204 BTC [-] {2}	[16:33]
nubbins`	http://www.badgirlchats.com/wp-content/uploads/R-Crumb-image.jpeg	[16:34]
nubbins`	anyway, re: crumb blotter art: http://blotterart.com/ProductImages/grabbies-orange-blotter-art.jpg	[16:34]
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nubbins`	crumb took a lotta flak over the years	[16:41]
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mircea_popescu	aren't they a little... porky ?	[16:47]
mircea_popescu	i like big women too, but these seem big in all the wrong ways in all the wrong places.	[16:47]
kakobrekla	www.uvm.edu/~iwd/images08/venuswillindorflarge.jpg	[16:48]
nubbins`	he likes Women	[16:49]
nubbins`	capital-W	[16:49]
nubbins`	birthing hips etc	[16:49]
nubbins`	you'll find a lot of crumb fans do as well	[16:50]
asciilifeform	http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2014/03/24/color-rotsnake_custom-d48b779a38b868da75a48c9b1e7e5515a0a644cd-s40-c85.gif << what does it say about me brain if i can... make it stand still	[16:51]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46600 @ 0.00095528 = 44.516 BTC [+] {5}	[16:52]
nubbins`	it means you'd make a good sniper	[16:53]
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mircea_popescu	nubbins` gotta have that narrow waist etc.	[16:54]
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mircea_popescu	all these folks looking for a mom.	[16:54]
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nubbins`	^	[16:55]
nubbins`	gazing upward with hope and joy in their eyes	[16:55]
nubbins`	o, to die beneath her fists!	[16:56]
asciilifeform	'don't run from sniper, you'll only die tired' (american folk saying)	[16:58]
rithm	i'm just glad my computer works today	[17:04]
rithm	3rd one this year	[17:04]
rithm	bitcoin be killin those encrypted ~ partitions	[17:05]
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novusordo	so apparently the trezor has a better recovery system than I thought	[17:09]
novusordo	if you take a factory-fresh trezor and you have a bip32 wallet you'd like to put on it	[17:10]
novusordo	it prompts you to enter the words from the bip32 phrase out of order	[17:10]
novusordo	and also prompts to enter random words between the actual ones	[17:11]
asciilifeform	novusordo: what prompts? last i saw, 'trezor' had no keyboard	[17:11]
novusordo	the screen will say something like "enter word 1"	[17:11]
*	nay (4a473a2a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.71.58.42) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:11]
asciilifeform	enter using what?	[17:11]
asciilifeform	morse?	[17:11]
novusordo	keyboard	[17:12]
novusordo	on the host computer	[17:12]
asciilifeform	aha.	[17:12]
novusordo	hence why such a recovery system is needed	[17:12]
asciilifeform	novusordo: what does trezor look like to host machine? tty ?	[17:14]
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novusordo	not sure, haven't gotten mine to play with yet	[17:16]
MisterE	wow that sparked quite the debate about bitbet	[17:18]
MisterE	Bitbet about outcome of 1K4Fs bitbet!	[17:20]
MisterE	Or make it for 2/3 bets where a bettor is betting both sides.	[17:21]
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*	coingenuity has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)	[17:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00303 = 0.1454 BTC [+]	[17:25]
thestringpuller	Betting boths sides is a way to adjust exposure? How is that controversial?	[17:27]
thestringpuller	adjust exposure before time-weight effects...	[17:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07125005 = 0.1425 BTC [-] {2}	[17:28]
*	imsaguy (~imsaguy@unaffiliated/imsaguy) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:29]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00298 = 0.1132 BTC [-]	[17:31]
*	B51Num1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)	[17:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00095373 = 9.728 BTC [-]	[17:31]
mircea_popescu	i dunno.	[17:33]
*	kermit (unknown@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:36]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00095355 = 7.5807 BTC [-]	[17:36]
*	jordandotdev (uid7502@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwbcxwxozwyatbit) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[17:37]
mircea_popescu	http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130615094529AAJ01dh	[17:39]
ozbot	My wife was raped my four men. I can't live or be with her with that on my mind. I have to leave her	[17:39]
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mircea_popescu	yahoo's pretty good for trollage apparently	[17:39]
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chetty	http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-25/what-bank-run-china-looks-hundreds-rush-banks-following-solvency-rumors	[17:40]
ozbot	What A Bank Run In China Looks Like: Hundreds Rush To Banks Following Solvency Rumors \| Zero Hedge	[17:40]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00305 = 0.1525 BTC [+]	[17:41]
*	only has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)	[17:42]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00088874 = 0.1777 BTC [-]	[17:42]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05436663 = 0.1631 BTC [-] {3}	[17:47]
benkay	http://amultiverse.com/comic/2010/08/23/the-crystalline-entity/	[17:48]
ozbot	Scenes From A Multiverse » The Crystalline Entity	[17:48]
benkay	also relevant to Bitcoin: http://amultiverse.com/comic/2010/08/24/welcome-to-the-deathzones/	[17:49]
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Mats_cd03	http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtrail_conspiracy_theory lol	[17:55]
ozbot	Chemtrail conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[17:55]
mike_c	paging BingoBoingo: http://bitbet.us/bet/796/an-eastern-conference-team-will-win-the-nba/ let's get some action!	[17:56]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.19917759 BTC to 4`379 shares, 50221 satoshi per share	[17:59]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05223833 = 0.4701 BTC [-] {6}	[18:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] [PAID] 50.50848075 BTC to 4`379 shares, 1153425 satoshi per share	[18:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.05182727 = 0.5701 BTC [-] {4}	[18:02]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.05717695 = 0.5146 BTC [-] {7}	[18:03]
blackwhite_	whats a good primer on currency/money? Any book recomendations	[18:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.0675 = 0.6075 BTC [+]	[18:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62988799 BTC [+]	[18:09]
*	Mt411 (4a715f59@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.113.95.89) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:09]
thestringpuller	what has the government done with our money	[18:09]
thestringpuller	by	[18:10]
thestringpuller	murray rothbard	[18:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0529 = 0.1587 BTC [-]	[18:11]
mircea_popescu	perhaps the least understood topic under the sun	[18:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07100021 = 0.213 BTC [-]	[18:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.07054545 = 1.552 BTC [-] {3}	[18:13]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.0056283 = 0.1407 BTC [+]	[18:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.0645 = 0.5805 BTC [-]	[18:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]	[18:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [RENT] 20 @ 0.0056283 = 0.1126 BTC [+]	[18:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 30 @ 0.10144642 = 3.0434 BTC [-]	[18:16]
*	BingoBoingo has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[18:17]
*	BingoBoingo (~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:17]
benkay	kakobrekla, mircea_popescu: where's the bitbet api again?	[18:17]
BingoBoingo	mike_c: You know I dun really do the basketball thing http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/13/an-overview-of-betable-sports-part-2-basketball/	[18:18]
mike_c	benkay: there's a json feed by tacking ?json on the end of the bet url	[18:18]
kakobrekla	benkay http://bitbet.us/bet/786/xyz/?json	[18:18]
kakobrekla	or without xyz as well	[18:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.05068334 = 0.6082 BTC [-] {6}	[18:19]
mircea_popescu	better w/o the xyz	[18:19]
the20year3	man these banks are idiots	[18:20]
the20year3	Put an offer on a house about 3-4 weeks ago, telling them we could close in a week	[18:20]
mike_c	BingoBoingo: but no point shaving possible here, just 5:1 odds on the eastern conference. that's a good bet.	[18:20]
the20year3	Got a email back the 13th from the bank saying "We are ready to close" , the contract's closing date was the 24th as requested by the bank. 24th has come and gone and still no closing	[18:20]
BingoBoingo	mike_c: I Mr. Stern still the commissioner?	[18:21]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07 = 0.14 BTC [-]	[18:21]
mike_c	only for like 2 more months	[18:21]
mike_c	oh nvm, stern left Feb. 1	[18:21]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[18:22]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[18:22]
mircea_popescu	mike_c pm	[18:22]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0501 = 0.1503 BTC [-]	[18:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06 = 0.18 BTC [+]	[18:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]	[18:22]
mike_c	mircea_popescu: didn't get it..	[18:22]
BingoBoingo	I'm still iffy on the whole NBA thing. Might as well open a bet on who wins the whole Wrestlemania thing.	[18:22]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0496 = 0.1984 BTC [-] {2}	[18:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06 = 0.24 BTC [+]	[18:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.10144642 = 0.913 BTC [-] {2}	[18:23]
mike_c	hah. nothing wrong with that either :) unless vince mcmahon has some bitcoin	[18:23]
benkay	kakobrekla: is there a convenient way to get a list of all resolved bets besides scrolling down the search page?	[18:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.05649999 = 0.8475 BTC [-] {3}	[18:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.05 = 0.35 BTC [+] {2}	[18:24]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.10144642 = 0.7101 BTC [-] {2}	[18:24]
BingoBoingo	Still doesn't fit with risk profiles I find betable. You never know who has Bitcoin.	[18:24]
kakobrekla	closed bets rss fee perhaps?	[18:24]
kakobrekla	feed	[18:24]
kakobrekla	sorry, the resolved rss feed	[18:25]
benkay	resolved rss only returns a few recently resolved bet	[18:25]
benkay	bets*	[18:25]
kakobrekla	theres no 'closed' feed	[18:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.10144642 = 1.0145 BTC [-]	[18:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.05253333 = 0.3152 BTC [-] {4}	[18:25]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]	[18:25]
benkay	and i'm not seeing any pagination handles in the 'resolved' rss	[18:25]
BingoBoingo	http://www.bnd.com/2014/03/25/3127475/postal-workers-intercept-drugs.html	[18:25]
ozbot	Postal workers intercept drugs mailed to metro-east \| Top Stories \| News Democrat	[18:25]
kakobrekla	myea	[18:26]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07 = 0.56 BTC [-] {2}	[18:26]
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kakobrekla	i guess we need some ?json on /browse/	[18:26]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4383 @ 0.00012319 = 0.5399 BTC [-] {13}	[18:27]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1137 @ 0.00012324 = 0.1401 BTC [+] {3}	[18:28]
benkay	well	[18:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]	[18:28]
benkay	"need"	[18:28]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07 = 0.14 BTC [-]	[18:29]
kakobrekla	perhaps the easiest way is to just loop through the ids going from 1 to whatever	[18:29]
kakobrekla	and you will get them all	[18:29]
kakobrekla	the status of the bet is in json	[18:30]
benkay	now that's usin the noggin	[18:30]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 45 @ 0.10144642 = 4.5651 BTC [-]	[18:32]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22029 @ 0.00095125 = 20.9551 BTC [-] {2}	[18:34]
*	bitcoinpete (~bitcoinpe@S01060016cbc6cced.ed.shawcable.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[18:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07 = 0.42 BTC [-]	[18:35]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]	[18:38]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3161 @ 0.00095048 = 3.0045 BTC [-]	[18:40]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0486 = 0.243 BTC [-] {2}	[18:40]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0499 = 0.2495 BTC [+]	[18:53]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0503996 = 0.1512 BTC [+] {3}	[18:54]
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the20year3	aaaah , buyer package is here	[18:54]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00094983 = 14.2949 BTC [-] {2}	[18:56]
pankkake	I am transferring my data from old to new drives, and I started a checksum verification of the tranferred files, for fun. turns out, a lot weren't transferred correctly	[19:01]
mircea_popescu	aaand trilema, teh rift guild just went over 1k members	[19:02]
pankkake	I suppose I should blame the hardware… though both are raid6	[19:02]
*	only_ is now known as only	[19:02]
asciilifeform	pankkake: helps to remember that there is really no such thing as a digital circuit	[19:03]
mircea_popescu	maybe diff checksm implementations ?	[19:03]
asciilifeform	analogue 'expellas furca, tamen usque revenit' !	[19:03]
pankkake	no, it's the same machine, with 12 drives wired. the setup is clearly ghetto (especially the pci-e extenders to reach the drives outside…)	[19:04]
mircea_popescu	ah	[19:05]
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asciilifeform	protocol is promise. helps to sometimes ensure promise is being kept.	[19:07]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.07021334 = 1.966 BTC [-] {3}	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	http://www.networkworld.com/news/2014/032514-atm-malware-controlled-by-a-280030.html	[19:12]
mircea_popescu	speaking of.	[19:12]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 21 @ 0.07000004 = 1.47 BTC [-] {3}	[19:13]
asciilifeform	personally seen several atms with 'bsod'	[19:13]
pankkake	many atms or other kiosk stuff stuck on the "daylight savings" message	[19:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07 = 1.4 BTC [-] {2}	[19:17]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00094952 = 14.1478 BTC [-] {2}	[19:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05399997 = 0.108 BTC [+] {2}	[19:19]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]	[19:31]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12128 @ 0.00094896 = 11.509 BTC [-] {3}	[19:32]
ThickAsThieves	is there a block visualizer website?	[19:33]
mircea_popescu	what's that ?	[19:39]
ThickAsThieves	something to see how addresses/txs are connected	[19:41]
jurov	blockr has it	[19:42]
jurov	in transaction detail	[19:42]
ThickAsThieves	thx	[19:42]
ThickAsThieves	hmm i dont see "detail" anywhere	[19:43]
nubbins`	mircea_popescu is there a way to exchange btc for whatever the fuck rift uses for currency?	[19:45]
nubbins`	simiar to eve/1btc	[19:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9141 @ 0.0009457 = 8.6446 BTC [-]	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	sure	[19:46]
mircea_popescu	you give me the btc	[19:47]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05399999 = 0.108 BTC [+] {2}	[19:47]
mircea_popescu	also in the news, i took about a week off because of all the press nuttery, during which i stopped buying raw materials	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	now i look at the market, prices fell an average of 40% across all product classes.	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	so i bought like a piggy	[19:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM100] 127 @ 0.00629561 = 0.7995 BTC [+] {4}	[19:48]
mircea_popescu	i guess im one of the major market foreces there	[19:49]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.0543748 = 0.435 BTC [+] {3}	[19:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0486 = 0.1944 BTC [-]	[19:49]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.05499999 = 0.22 BTC [+] {2}	[19:50]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16889 @ 0.00094986 = 16.0422 BTC [+] {2}	[19:50]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.055 = 0.385 BTC [+] {3}	[19:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04810005 = 0.1924 BTC [-] {2}	[19:54]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62988979 BTC [+]	[20:01]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.052 = 0.104 BTC [-]	[20:03]
mike_c	http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2014/betting-bitbet-both-ways/	[20:04]
ozbot	Betting BitBet Both Ways - Btc Alpha	[20:04]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.052 = 0.312 BTC [-] {2}	[20:08]
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nubbins`	http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Local/2014-03-25/article-3662653/Man-who-tried-to-choke-daughter-gets-one-year-probation/1	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	mike_c the correct selection for house bets is to take the first three bets of any wager, and exclude one of them	[20:09]
ozbot	Man who tried to choke daughter gets one year probation - Local - The Telegram	[20:09]
mike_c	i wish	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	mike_c the one you exclude a) always has the same output as one of the remainder two and is either made at weight 100k	[20:09]
mike_c	lots of counter-examples to that	[20:09]
MisterE	nice mike_c @	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	or else at lower weight than the other two	[20:09]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11463 @ 0.00095392 = 10.9348 BTC [+] {2}	[20:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]	[20:09]
mircea_popescu	but the two you keep always have the exact same weight	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	usually in the 99,995+-2 range	[20:10]
mike_c	*generally	[20:10]
mircea_popescu	now give me a counterexample to that.	[20:10]
mike_c	http://bitbet.us/bet/4/	[20:11]
ozbot	BitBet - US Credit Rating	[20:11]
nubbins`	http://www.thetelegram.com/Living/2014-03-25/article-3661866/Local-artist-using-Ellen-DeGeneres-portrait-as-a-face-for-pro-seal-hunt/1	[20:11]
ozbot	Local artist using Ellen DeGeneres portrait as a face for pro seal hunt - Entertainment - The Telegr	[20:11]
nubbins`	HEH	[20:11]
nubbins`	guy does a portrait of Ellen in a seal pelt	[20:12]
mircea_popescu	mike_c take first 3, exclude 3rd. whay problem ?	[20:12]
mike_c	not the same weight	[20:12]
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mircea_popescu	1. take first 3 bets. 2. exclude one. 2.1 either the 1st, if it has the same exit addy as one of the other 2, and the two have same weight, or else the 3rd.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	99`9xx weight = same weight in this sense anyway.	[20:13]
mircea_popescu	ha! the house clears 10% ? i had it pegged at about 8%	[20:14]
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assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00095177 = 5.4727 BTC [-] {2}	[20:15]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[20:15]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu MisterE mixdio_	[20:15]
mircea_popescu	mike_c the point about "it dun really matter so much to correctly identify the house" stands too, for the angle discussed in chat.	[20:16]
mircea_popescu	and nice article. somebody should dump it on reddit.	[20:16]
MisterE	yea good work	[20:16]
El3k0n	Hi guys	[20:17]
mircea_popescu	also Neil ^	[20:17]
mike_c	http://bitbet.us/bet/175/	[20:17]
ozbot	BitBet - BTC/USD at MtGox will stay ABOVE 14.88$ and BELOW 21.46$	[20:17]
mike_c	not one of the first 3	[20:17]
mike_c	thanks MisterE mircea_popescu	[20:17]
BingoBoingo	mike_c: Spectacular write up	[20:17]
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mircea_popescu	holy shit you're right.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	a well, i tried.	[20:19]
mircea_popescu	blame the blockchainz.	[20:19]
benkay	wd mike_c	[20:19]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.0009566 = 24.5846 BTC [+] {3}	[20:20]
mike_c	thx. it is cool to look at some of the big winners for the house. the mtgox closure caused a huge one. 0.07 btc -> 1.36 btc	[20:20]
benkay	lol sponsorized	[20:20]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 1324 / 2 * .1	[20:21]
gribble	66.2	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	yeah hehe	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	spikes on the graph	[20:21]
mircea_popescu	so 66.2 theoretical, 66.16 practical.	[20:24]
mircea_popescu	;;calc 0.04 / 66.2	[20:24]
gribble	0.000604229607251	[20:24]
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mircea_popescu	99.94% i say!	[20:24]
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wao-ender	you seems kinda nostalgic here	[20:26]
wao-ender	#firstbets	[20:26]
mircea_popescu	anyway, 5.x btc profit on a 70ish btc budget as a handicapper is really not that bad.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	this is a living, split x btc on each bet, early.	[20:27]
mike_c	not bad at all. plus you could surely do better by varying your budget on the bets.	[20:27]
mircea_popescu	maybe.	[20:28]
mircea_popescu	perhaps in the sense of varying it 0 - x, binary like	[20:28]
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mike_c	yeah, right after i said that i second thought it. lot of the big profits comes from unexpected results.	[20:28]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+]	[20:31]
mircea_popescu	generally speaking mechanical, constraint betting results in better ev than "feelers".	[20:31]
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mircea_popescu	something like "x on winner, half x on loser for all bets" or w/e other strategy	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	people could actually write bots for this.	[20:32]
wao-ender	^	[20:32]
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mircea_popescu	ie, here's a very simple way to have fun as a bright young programmer :	[20:32]
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mircea_popescu	write a google search application that finds answers to bets based on queries derived from bet text,	[20:32]
wao-ender	trilema^post^request	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	bets	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	see if you win.	[20:32]
mircea_popescu	wao-ender yeah i guess so.	[20:33]
asciilifeform	s.bitbot	[20:33]
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wao-ender	we are having this weekend bithack at our hackerspace, wondering if people would like make some betbot	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform could even have tournaments. who makes the most out of 100 btc or w/e	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	wao-ender this is going to take a year rather than a weekend.	[20:33]
mircea_popescu	it's a fucking hard problem.	[20:33]
wao-ender	lot of math and analyzing of external inputs	[20:34]
wao-ender	but yeah, I can imagine, it could work.	[20:34]
wao-ender	like betting what weather would be tomorrow.	[20:34]
thestringpuller	wao-ender: so you're going to create an AI bot?	[20:34]
thestringpuller	how will you determine conditions?	[20:35]
thestringpuller	or know if propositions are objective? etc. etc.	[20:35]
blackwhite	http://gigaom.com/2014/03/25/irs-declares-that-bitcoin-will-be-taxed-as-property/	[20:37]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: who needs tournament. the coin would suffice - 'Быть всегда впереди - вот награда твоя!' ('to be always ahead - this shall be your reward!' from well-known sov. song)	[20:37]
ozbot	IRS declares that bitcoin will be taxed as property — Tech News and Analysis	[20:37]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07199779 = 0.144 BTC [+]	[20:38]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00095821 = 27.2611 BTC [+] {4}	[20:38]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform exactly :)	[20:38]
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ThickAsThieves	http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf	[20:39]
ThickAsThieves	If a taxpayer receives a payment in virtual currency, is it considered income?	[20:39]
ThickAsThieves	Yes, the fair-market value of the currency (in U.S. dollars) on the date the payment was received is considered to be income. For more information on exchange rates, see the notice.	[20:39]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 887 @ 0.0029547 = 2.6208 BTC [-] {13}	[20:40]
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novusordo	took them that long to come up with this?	[20:43]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00284176 = 2.8418 BTC [-] {21}	[20:43]
novusordo	not surprised but come on	[20:43]
ThickAsThieves	it doesnt really say how to determine an exchange rate other than to be consistent	[20:43]
asciilifeform	ianal, but nothing shocking here - usg is treating btc the same as gold, cement, bags of xxxxx good	[20:43]
asciilifeform	if you pay in cement, that's traditionally taxable, etc.	[20:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07199779 = 0.144 BTC [+]	[20:44]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 45 @ 0.072 = 3.24 BTC [+]	[20:45]
thestringpuller	What determines receiving BTC as payment?	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the difference between cement and btc is that i can hit you over the head with the cement.	[20:47]
thestringpuller	If you receive BTC as a gift doesn't a different tax apply?	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	seems to me the only sane treatment of btc is as any other intangible, taxable only upon realisation.	[20:47]
mircea_popescu	i dunno who'd live in a jurisdiction that takes any other tack to the problem, or why.	[20:47]
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novusordo	btc dividends?	[20:48]
mircea_popescu	novusordo that's not realisation. when you sell it, you report the income.	[20:48]
novusordo	that's how i've understood it	[20:48]
ThickAsThieves	so if i trade you intellectual proprty for bitcoins, a black hole forms?	[20:48]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 86 @ 0.07000009 = 6.02 BTC [-] {4}	[20:49]
ThickAsThieves	how does one discern a reasonable trade value from an unreasonable one?	[20:50]
El3k0n	ThickAsThieves The world financial system implodes	[20:50]
mircea_popescu	ello El3k0n	[20:51]
mircea_popescu	who might you be ?	[20:51]
ThickAsThieves	this guy? https://twitter.com/El3k0n	[20:51]
El3k0n	Yes	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	he makes random numbers too	[20:52]
mircea_popescu	cool	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	https://github.com/El3k0n	[20:52]
ThickAsThieves	sick him asciilifeform!	[20:52]
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pankkake	that's a horrible random generator	[20:53]
El3k0n	It's a fork	[20:53]
El3k0n	I didn't made that	[20:54]
BingoBoingo	https://twitter.com/APStylebook/status/438316517307215874	[20:54]
ozbot	Twitter / APStylebook: AP Style tip: Bitcoin is a ...	[20:54]
BingoBoingo	Related to an earlier discussion	[20:54]
ThickAsThieves	makes sense	[20:55]
nubbins`	can't trust AP style tips anymore	[20:55]
nubbins`	they now allow "over" as a synonym of "more than"	[20:55]
*	nubbins` shakes head	[20:55]
mike_c	that one seems right though	[20:55]
mike_c	the btc one	[20:56]
BingoBoingo	It's what I've been trying to do.	[20:56]
pankkake	nubbins`: why isn't "over" the same as "more than"?	[20:57]
pankkake	I didn't know the AP style guide existed, I've been meaning to read the Economist one	[20:57]
nubbins`	pankkake, it's just not proper english :D	[20:57]
nubbins`	colloquially, it's used the same way	[20:58]
pankkake	yes but WHY :(	[20:58]
nubbins`	well, y'know why is anything the way it is?	[20:58]
nubbins`	why is the table a table?	[20:58]
nubbins`	anyway gotta run, :D	[20:58]
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BingoBoingo	http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/microsoft-releases-source-code-for-ms-dos-and-word/	[20:59]
ozbot	Microsoft releases source code for MS-DOS and Word \| Ars Technica	[20:59]
benkay	plantive whine: "look, we do open source!"	[21:00]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15016 @ 0.00095355 = 14.3185 BTC [-]	[21:00]
asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: Microsoft releases source code << carefully calculated insult to the public - dos 1.1	[21:03]
BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: And Word 1.1	[21:04]
asciilifeform	plenty of industrial systems, etc. still run on dos 5 and later - but, fortunately, the source (largely asm) was leaked years ago.	[21:04]
pankkake	there's always FreeDOS	[21:04]
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asciilifeform	freedos, last i checked, wasn't 'bug for bug compatible' with msdos.	[21:05]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.048175 = 0.1927 BTC [-] {3}	[21:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0545 = 0.218 BTC [-] {2}	[21:06]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.10144642 = 0.4058 BTC [-] {2}	[21:06]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0476005 = 0.238 BTC [-]	[21:07]
asciilifeform	ThickAsThieves: i do hope that you don't think me to be some sort of rng hero	[21:08]
asciilifeform	everything there is to know about rng is 1950s state of the art.	[21:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0471 = 0.1413 BTC [-]	[21:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.07 = 1.75 BTC [-] {2}	[21:08]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.10144642 = 0.5072 BTC [-]	[21:08]
ThickAsThieves	well more that i respect you have better ability to discern proper rng, crypto, etc than i	[21:09]
BingoBoingo	reeses: Bug for Bug compatibility http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/	[21:09]
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Duffer1	ciphertrade goes live on friday	[21:10]
Duffer1	they have yet to figure out who gets what percentage...	[21:10]
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mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-have-fun-as-an-intelligent-person/	[21:11]
ozbot	How to have fun as an intelligent person pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	wao-ender ^	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	tho perhaps not exactly what you had in mind.	[21:11]
Duffer1	that's right, apparently without a contract, multiple people pooled resources to create CipherTrade and didn't figure out who will own what	[21:11]
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Duffer1	this will end well i'm sure	[21:11]
wao-ender	mircea_popescu: let me read it	[21:11]
mircea_popescu	Duffer1 as someone said, "not even worth laughing at"	[21:12]
mircea_popescu	course, i think they were talking of something else. inasmuch as there can be "something else" in the swamp.	[21:12]
Duffer1	it must be something else cause to me this is hilarious	[21:12]
wao-ender	well, great reading.	[21:13]
wao-ender	I suggest it as milion dollar idea w/o one dollar, that one dollar you already have in your pocket	[21:14]
mircea_popescu	also requires a head.	[21:15]
wao-ender	not in package.	[21:15]
wao-ender	right	[21:15]
mircea_popescu	but because bitcoin allows such fine payments, you're right, you can do this on a cup of coffee	[21:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0551 = 0.2755 BTC [+] {2}	[21:16]
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thestringpuller	that's one of the best trilema articles I've read	[21:20]
thestringpuller	totally worth a trilema coin	[21:20]
mircea_popescu	ha!	[21:21]
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asciilifeform	perhaps i'm thick, but it still seems to me like the biggest winners on bitbet ought to be folks sitting on the right side of an information asymmetry.	[21:24]
mike_c	that is the case for all parimutuel wagering	[21:24]
asciilifeform	e.g. the ones who 'know', with a good degree of confidence, that difficulty will drop on day x, because they can personally pull the plug on a chinese minerfarm - etc	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform hence the "mine google" approach	[21:25]
mike_c	good handicappers at the racetrack know a shitload more than me about horses.	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	no see, because you confuse information and action here.	[21:25]
asciilifeform	'mine google' gives a little asymmetry - 'pull plug' - more.	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	that's not information.	[21:25]
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mircea_popescu	you are comparing unlike things.	[21:25]
mircea_popescu	in general action (pull plug) is caught in a web of actions	[21:26]
blackwhite	so regarding the bitcoin as property. What does that mean if I get bitcoin for the work I am doing?	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	and information in a web of information	[21:26]
blackwhite	i.e. with me design work	[21:26]
asciilifeform	this is a little like 'moldbug's chessboard' - fight between move-select-via-reddit vs. an actual grandmaster	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	it's unlikely you'll be able to breach the former in order to benefit the latter	[21:26]
mircea_popescu	(trivially, your curiosity as to what's inside a watch isn't worth the pirce of a watch)	[21:26]
asciilifeform	if 'watch' is a west german tank engine, and i'm 'gru', then it is worth 100x the price, no?	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	perhaps.	[21:27]
mircea_popescu	except the price in that edge case is infinity.	[21:27]
ThickAsThieves	the word "generally" appears 8 times in the IRS release	[21:28]
asciilifeform	eh, it was never infinity. not even close to $maxint.	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	so it was prepared by one Gene Rally, esq.	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	're thinking theft.	[21:28]
mircea_popescu	think free market.	[21:28]
ThickAsThieves	lol	[21:29]
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asciilifeform	actually gru usually bought on the free market	[21:29]
ThickAsThieves	plus 5 generals	[21:29]
asciilifeform	the -really- free market	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no, they did not. see, it wasn't a free market, but at the other end of things	[21:29]
asciilifeform	western tech co. wants to sell, forbidden by own government	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	(ie, in a free market neither the gru nor the nazis could have existed)	[21:29]
asciilifeform	polite gentleman offers 100x the usual price	[21:29]
asciilifeform	point	[21:29]
mircea_popescu	so in general arguing "in this inefficient case the inefficiency could be used like so"	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	misses the point that you'd have to construct that inefficiency first, which precludes the use economically.	[21:30]
asciilifeform	i was thinking of a far more mundane aspect, where the best source of info re: the outcome of, say, athletic match, isn't 1000 googles, but the boxer who can decide to 'throw' the match	[21:30]
mircea_popescu	sure, but that's an entire different story than what we're doing here.	[21:31]
mircea_popescu	sort-of like saying "i have no need to use computers because i already know what 2+2 comes to"	[21:31]
asciilifeform	i was assuming that the proposal is about bitbet as it currently exists - where bests in the style of 'boxing match' are heavily represented	[21:31]
asciilifeform	*bets	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	more like a general case.	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	moreover, the whole thing is begging the question. "how do you make money if you know how to make money already ?" "in the manner you know".	[21:32]
mircea_popescu	as opposed to, "how do i make money ?" "like this"	[21:33]
asciilifeform	this reminds me of an idea that i (and probably everybody) had at one point - a betting engine with auto-resolution using google (or some other mechanical process)	[21:33]
mircea_popescu	that's a much harder problem.	[21:33]
asciilifeform	truly.	[21:33]
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mircea_popescu	http://24.media.tumblr.com/1a702f2098bece1183afc38a35f98035/tumblr_meylr9rYLe1qmiugko1_1280.jpg	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	have a slut instead.	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	electric tape ftw.	[21:34]
asciilifeform	if it existed, it would gravitationally move the planet's spammers and 'seo' scum the way the moon moves the ocean.	[21:34]
mircea_popescu	lol	[21:35]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00095617 = 12.6214 BTC [+] {2}	[21:41]
blackwhite	http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-25/bitcoin-is-property-not-currency-in-tax-system-irs-says.html	[21:41]
ozbot	Bitcoin Is Property Not Currency in Tax System, IRS Says - Bloomberg	[21:41]
blackwhite	in danish	[21:41]
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blackwhite	Denmark i mean	[21:41]
blackwhite	http://epn.dk/samfund/politik/ECE6587289/afgoerelse-gevinster-fra-bitcoins-er-skattefrie/	[21:41]
blackwhite	IRS just ruled that its not taxable	[21:41]
blackwhite	(the article is in Danish)	[21:42]
asciilifeform	blackwhite: no such thing. the decree sums to 'as taxable as cement'	[21:42]
blackwhite	?	[21:42]
blackwhite	IRS in Denmark (called Skat)	[21:42]
asciilifeform	;;google Wickard v. Filburn	[21:42]
gribble	Wickard v. Filburn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Wickard v. Filburn \| The Oyez Project at IIT Chicago-Kent College of ...: ; Wickard v. Filburn – Case Brief Summary - Lawnix:	[21:42]
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asciilifeform	required reading to understand how u.s. totalitarian system got its beginning	[21:43]
blackwhite	not sure I understand	[21:43]
blackwhite	The IRS in the US ruled it's property	[21:43]
blackwhite	the IRS in Denmark ruled it's not taxable	[21:43]
asciilifeform	aha denmark	[21:43]
asciilifeform	intro for noobs. in the u.s., the central government was once traditionally limited to regulating 'interstate commerce'	[21:43]
asciilifeform	then, there was a court case, where they ruled that, in essence, a fart is 'interstate commerce'	[21:44]
asciilifeform	because you could have bottled and sold the fart	[21:44]
asciilifeform	and hence it would have affected the price of bottled farts interstate markets	[21:44]
asciilifeform	(anyone who thinks that this is an exaggeration, look up the case)	[21:44]
asciilifeform	the losing side (a farmer) was required to burn his crop.	[21:45]
asciilifeform	because not burning it could affect the market price.	[21:45]
ThickAsThieves	The Court decided that Filburn's wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would buy for chicken feed on the open market, and because wheat was traded nationally, Filburn's production of more wheat than he was allotted was affecting interstate commerce. Thus, Filburn's production could be regulated by the federal government.	[21:46]
Mats_cd03	> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Lopez	[21:47]
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asciilifeform	http://cryptome.org/2014/03/todashev-doj.pdf	[21:51]
asciilifeform	tldr - government report excusing the execution of a famous suspect, claims that he reached for... a sword.	[21:52]
asciilifeform	(extrajudicial execution, naturally)	[21:52]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 16 @ 0.10144642 = 1.6231 BTC [-] {2}	[21:58]
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asciilifeform	from the loltron:	[22:01]
asciilifeform	https://www.cyberguerrilla.org/blog/?p=17789	[22:01]
ozbot	CyberGuerrilla soApboX » Ukrainian leakage once again.	[22:01]
asciilifeform	(file under 'fiat problems')	[22:01]
Mats_cd03	"While the Assisting Trooper attempted unsuccessfully to draw his handgun" the 2 second rule nearly prevails once again	[22:02]
Mats_cd03	Should've watched tom cruise for pro tips http://youtu.be/UiqwF_Y9S5Q	[22:04]
mircea_popescu	Lawrence Tierney was pretty cool	[22:04]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform ThickAsThieves amusingly, there was recently a very similar case re milk.	[22:05]
Mats_cd03	Back to Bataan i haven't seen in some time	[22:05]
mircea_popescu	some california producer that made butter out of its own milk was forced to stop selling it because it had an unfair advantage.	[22:05]
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asciilifeform	waiting for timoshenko et al to proclaim that yesterday's 'leaked nixon tape' of her asking fellow ua fucktards 'can't we find a nuke with which to cleanse the russian scum' - in perfect russian - is fake	[22:06]
Mats_cd03	Hahaha	[22:06]
jurov	she did already	[22:06]
asciilifeform	jurov: i have this crap set to 'interrupt', not 'poll', so i might be a little behind.	[22:07]
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jurov	she apparently tweeted it (but these slovak scumbags did not link it)	[22:08]
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mircea_popescu	the consensus in the harem seems to be that these chechen boyz (as typified by todashev) sure are pretty	[22:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 13 @ 0.05526164 = 0.7184 BTC [-] {3}	[22:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.04999999 = 0.75 BTC [+] {3}	[22:09]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.10144642 = 0.4058 BTC [-]	[22:09]
mircea_popescu	now how the fuck can women tell who the violent males are ? he looks totally harmless to me.	[22:10]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: they're cult figures here in usa. tabloid magazine covers were printed with special magnified mug shots for their wanking.	[22:10]
BingoBoingo	http://gawker.com/freejahar-when-conspiracy-theorists-and-one-direction-478152664	[22:10]
ozbot	#FreeJahar: When Conspiracy Theorists and One Direction Fans Collide	[22:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05360007 = 0.1072 BTC [-] {2}	[22:10]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.10144642 = 0.2029 BTC [-] {2}	[22:11]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i dun think they recognised the face.	[22:11]
BingoBoingo	The younger one has had a Beiber like fanbase for some time since his arrest.	[22:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]	[22:12]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00298999 = 0.1435 BTC [-] {2}	[22:14]
ThickAsThieves	i wonder what my tax penalties will be for all that unreported WoW gold	[22:14]
bitcoinpete	I'm just going to quietly leave this here: http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/progress-pies-and-profit/	[22:14]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.0503988 = 0.4032 BTC [+]	[22:15]
ThickAsThieves	bitcoinpete, did you program your HootSuite to post that to IRC? ;)	[22:15]
diametric	ThickAsThieves: none, since Blizzard explicitly states ownership of the gold belongs to them.	[22:15]
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bitcoinpete	It has too many footnotes, too many airquotes, and is a bit long (and therefore error-prone).	[22:15]
mircea_popescu	diametric so how much are THEY paying ?	[22:15]
diametric	Technically USD you made illegitimately would be taxed as income, just as any other illegitimate sale	[22:15]
bitcoinpete	ThickAsThieves: you'd swear! lol	[22:15]
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diametric	mircea_popescu: oh none of course since nothing gets realized	[22:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.05598999 = 0.3919 BTC [+]	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	oh i see. but some WoW gold IS sold for usd.	[22:16]
diametric	not legitimately	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	;;buy wow gold	[22:16]
gribble	Error: 'wow' is not a valid positive floating point number.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	;;google buy wow gold	[22:16]
gribble	IGE.com - WoW Gold - GW2 Gold - D3 Gold - Buy Safe, Fast and ...: ; Buy WOW Gold, World of Warcraft Gold, Diablo 3 gold from IGXE.com.: ; Buy WOW Gold,Fast and Cheap WOW Gold for Sale!:	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	diametric well, bitcoin is not sold for usd any more legitimately.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	they're both sold on the grounds of possesion, without title.	[22:16]
mircea_popescu	and actually... wow gold to usd exchanges are older and a lot more stable than btc to usd exchanges.	[22:16]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05598999 = 0.112 BTC [+]	[22:17]
diametric	mircea_popescu: in the same way if I stole your TV and sold it, you're not responsible for capital gains on it.	[22:17]
asciilifeform	ianal, but the linked proclamation seems to declare 'legitimacy' for this purpose	[22:17]
diametric	mircea_popescu: people selling wow gold is technically stealing it.	[22:17]
bitcoinpete	ThickAsThieves: I've been keeping up with the logs at least :)	[22:17]
ThickAsThieves	not really diametric	[22:17]
diametric	they need to pay taxes, but blizzard doesn't.	[22:17]
ThickAsThieves	more like if i sold you my checkign account password	[22:17]
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mircea_popescu	diametric people selling btc are equally "technically" stealing it.	[22:17]
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asciilifeform	it even demands that miners pay tax, the same way farmers are made to	[22:18]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.00298999 = 0.2541 BTC [-]	[22:18]
asciilifeform	(afaik it is technically illegal to be a subsistence farmer in the u.s.)	[22:18]
diametric	ThickAsThieves: all of this in Blizzard's eyes constitutes theft of intellectual property	[22:18]
mircea_popescu	but that's really besides the point.	[22:19]
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ThickAsThieves	and pretty hard to defend surely	[22:19]
mircea_popescu	people trading wow gold exchange possession without title.	[22:19]
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mircea_popescu	people trading btc idem exchange possession without title.	[22:19]
ThickAsThieves	game currency can be shown to have real world value	[22:19]
ThickAsThieves	regardless of issuer and the rules it imposes	[22:19]
diametric	I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm telling you having actually talked to Blizzard's legal team what they believe	[22:20]
diametric	it of course has never been challenged	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	in neither case a representation is made as to transfer of title, which makes blizzard's ip assertions irrelevant.	[22:20]
asciilifeform	my understanding is that selling 'wow gold' is quite like sub-leasing an apartment where the original lease forbade it	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	o i know what they believe.	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	it's just that they can believe in one hand and piss in the other, see which gets warm first.	[22:20]
asciilifeform	in the usa, if someone hands you money, or cement, etc. for whatever reason, it is officially taxable	[22:20]
diametric	asciilifeform: of course	[22:20]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but not if someone hands you a dream.	[22:20]
bounce	er. if nobody "owning" WoW gold can hold title then even "stolen" (or traded, or whatever) gold is held without title, and so it canot possibly be theft, now can it?	[22:20]
diametric	which I said those selling the wow gold are liable for taxes	[22:21]
diametric	but not blizzard	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform again : i can hit you over the head with the cement.	[22:21]
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mircea_popescu	diametric bounce has it.	[22:21]
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mircea_popescu	either it's not taxable throughout, except for realisation	[22:21]
mircea_popescu	or else blizzard owes tax.	[22:21]
ThickAsThieves	would my monthly WoW fee now be an expense?	[22:21]
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Apocalyptic	ThickAsThieves, you're a WoW player ?	[22:21]
diametric	ThickAsThieves: I don't see why not.	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	to maintain the value of the gold i hold?	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	ThickAsThieves you could claim that for a long time, actually.	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	i dont play anymnore	[22:22]
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mircea_popescu	unrelatedly to this discussion	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	i used to	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	from Burning Crusade to WotLK	[22:22]
asciilifeform	my understanding is, if i'm shot walking on the street, i theoretically owe 9g of Pb worth of tax on the windfall of perfectly good lead.	[22:22]
ThickAsThieves	i bought both gold and accounts	[22:22]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this is true. but, again, with pb i can hit you over the head.	[22:23]
diametric	I've done a lot of things with WoW over the years before I quit about 3 years ago	[22:23]
ThickAsThieves	and the hospital had commited theft if they did not produce the lead back to the owner	[22:23]
mircea_popescu	bitcoin is not like pb, or oranges, or cement.	[22:23]
jurov	don't give anybody a reason to use silver bullets then	[22:23]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]	[22:24]
ThickAsThieves	Werewolves Rejoice!	[22:24]
mike_c	if my employer pays me in stock, i owe taxes. can't hit me in the head with that	[22:24]
bounce	well, as long as they steal the tax obligation with it, I suppose I can live with it	[22:24]
diametric	More interesting is EVE, where earned ISK in game can be realized into a membership	[22:24]
the20year3	http://www.kwqc.com/story/25060066/razor-blades-injure-2-year-old-in-east-moline	[22:24]
asciilifeform	i think everyone here is aware of the practical difference btween btc and cement. but the bureaucrats aren't - or will pretend, at any rate, for as long as it remains possible	[22:24]
midnightmagic	mikaeldi1e mike_c MiningBuddy mircea_popescu mixdio_	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	mike_c yep, i can.	[22:24]
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mircea_popescu	stock is a portion of the business, so i get a brick out of the building that is represented by the stock	[22:24]
ThickAsThieves	Dota 2 gets intricate too, the more i play the more items i get, they provide a market for selling items for USD credit	[22:24]
mircea_popescu	and hit you with that.	[22:24]
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mike_c	it's a zero-asset company :)	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	diametric or rift, same thing.	[22:25]
bounce	at least the tax office rarely is interested in anything but taxability	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	mike_c there exist no fiat zero asset corps.	[22:25]
mircea_popescu	see how neatly this all locks together ? :D	[22:25]
ThickAsThieves	the IRS makes no effort to define a virtual currency either	[22:26]
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mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's fine and dandy, but the best way for their pretense to remain standing is for tem to vehehery carefully steer out of the way of their masters.	[22:26]
mike_c	i do see your point, but i agree with ascii. it makes no practical difference since the bureaucrats will not recognize said difference.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	ie, the people who can piss on the sugar.	[22:26]
bounce	IMO bit of a failing of government to stick to asking whether they can get away with taxing, and not asking whether they should	[22:26]
asciilifeform	my guess is that no serious effort will be made to actually collect the tax. rather, it will be used as a scourge against folks who need to be 'lettre de cachet'-d.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	mike_c o yes it does.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	men made out of paper are not to play with matches.	[22:26]
mircea_popescu	irrespective of the relative sizes.	[22:26]
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asciilifeform	;;google three felonies	[22:28]
gribble	Three-strikes law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent: Harvey ...: ; Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent: Harvey A ...:	[22:28]
mike_c	asciilifeform: indeed. how exactly would they make an effort to collect anyway? impossible.	[22:28]
asciilifeform	in this spirit	[22:28]
ThickAsThieves	it's also an absurd degree of taxation: say i buy a Walmart Gift Card with btc, i should pay sales tax, gains tax, then the seller reports profit and is taxed, revenue used to pay employees is taxed. then you tack on the accounting burden on both sides, plus the seller's burden as tax collector	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform that's bs, imo.	[22:28]
mircea_popescu	specifically : people who are already defeated take into consideration nonsense such as "oh but the feds have a 9x% conviction rate" as a ready-made excuse to settle.	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	meanwhile, five people don't settle and the entire system collapses in flames.	[22:29]
mircea_popescu	it's difficult to overstate just how fragile the entire morloch actually is.	[22:30]
ThickAsThieves	then when you use the gift card all that happens again	[22:30]
mircea_popescu	for all the appearance and pretense of stolid solidity.	[22:30]
asciilifeform	;;google solzhenitsyn axe	[22:31]
gribble	Quote by Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn : And how we burned in the ...: ; Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn Quotes (Author of One Day in the Life of ...: ; The Gulag Archipelago - Wikiquote: (1 more message)	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	yeah yeah.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	there's no stalin running the us.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	and without an actual man, there's no actual power.	[22:31]
mircea_popescu	just a bunch of sterile 37 yo women running around in circles, wailing.	[22:31]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1834 @ 0.00095355 = 1.7488 BTC [-]	[22:32]
asciilifeform	heretic david koresh (sp?) crunched under tank treads, with his men. and yet no stalin.	[22:32]
mircea_popescu	but anyway : the hissing of the serpent is easily ignored, until the point you cross its boundary.	[22:32]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 32 @ 0.10144642 = 3.2463 BTC [-]	[22:33]
asciilifeform	morloch << molloch worshipped by morlocks? i like it	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	hehe	[22:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00298998 = 0.1166 BTC [-]	[22:34]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform in the spirit of that example, 1mn people killed on highways each year, no stalin.	[22:34]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]	[22:35]
asciilifeform	that's more in the department of 'Lord Hunger'	[22:35]
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asciilifeform	'Царь Голод' (in the original)	[22:35]
*	smidge has quit (Quit: sorry, but you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck...)	[22:35]
asciilifeform	lord hunger, lord plague, lord 'pileup'	[22:36]
ThickAsThieves	"Google's new cloud storage prices are as low as $0.026 per gigabyte as a flat rate, far below Amazon's lowest offering of $0.037 per gigabyte, which kicks in if you're holding terabytes of data in the AWS cloud."	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	at any rate. the waco debacle has been perhaps the costliest enforcing action by the various bureaus	[22:36]
mircea_popescu	nearly ended the batf	[22:36]
asciilifeform	no more than recent events end nsa	[22:37]
asciilifeform	so a few neon signs get swapped for new ones	[22:37]
asciilifeform	business as usual	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	nsa is pretty much finished, yes.	[22:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07000012 = 1.4 BTC [-] {2}	[22:37]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05598997 = 0.168 BTC [-]	[22:37]
mircea_popescu	not really that simple.	[22:37]
asciilifeform	;;google Church Committee 1975	[22:37]
gribble	Church Committee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Church Committee Created - US Senate: ; Church Committee - US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence:	[22:37]
asciilifeform	;;google mk ultra	[22:38]
gribble	Project MKUltra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; History of MK-ULTRA. CIA program on Mind Control.: ; CIA Mind Control Operation MK-ULTRA - YouTube:	[22:38]
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asciilifeform	afaik all of these folks (or younger successors) are still employed	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with te	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	rror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	quite excellent points.	[22:38]
ThickAsThieves	lol [KS] (KS]@thinks.the.feds.are.investigat.in) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	brings to mind a spirited debate	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	;;google trilema vina batranilor	[22:38]
gribble	Aprilie 2010 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: ; Cocietate si Sultura pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.:	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	meh	[22:38]
mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2010/vina-batranilor/	[22:38]
ozbot	Vina batranilor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.	[22:39]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: that piece seems to be about 'говноеды' ('shit-eaters') no?	[22:40]
asciilifeform	the happily-colonized folks	[22:40]
asciilifeform	'In examining different kinds of agents, people from the free world who have sold themselves to the GRU, one cannot avoid touching on yet another category, perhaps the least appealing of all. Officially one is not allowed to call them agents, and they are not agents in the full sense of being recruited agents. We are talking about the numerous members of overseas societies of friendship with the Soviet Union.	[22:41]
asciilifeform	Officially, all Soviet representatives regard these parasites with touching feelings of friendship, but privately they call them 'shit-eaters' ('govnoed'). It is difficult to say where this expression originated, but it is truly the only name they deserve. The use of this word has become so firmly entrenched in Soviet embassies that it is impossible to imagine any other name for these people. A conversation mi	[22:41]
asciilifeform	ght run as follows: Today we've got a friendship evening with shit-eaters', or Today we're having some shit-eaters to dinner. Prepare a suitable menu'.'	[22:41]
asciilifeform	(rezun's classic 'soviet military intelligence')	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform pretty much	[22:41]
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mircea_popescu	afaik it originated with hruschev	[22:41]
mircea_popescu	always a man of his words.	[22:42]
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jurov	and they really thought such foreign policy is sustainable?	[22:43]
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jurov	or sustainability is not in russian vocabulary?	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	sorta like all the numerous "ngos"	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	dotting the landscape these days.	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	saving animals and the environment and whatnot.	[22:44]
asciilifeform	afaik most modern despots would be quite satisfied with ancient egypt's 5000 yrs of 'sustain'	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	who thinks the crap is "sustainable" and what's sustainable even mean in that context	[22:44]
asciilifeform	hell, modest '1000 year reich'	[22:44]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform notice how it compresses.	[22:45]
asciilifeform	even these are growing more modest. wait for the 100 year reich. 10.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	"civitas aeterna"	[22:45]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.0009535 = 14.4932 BTC [-]	[22:45]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05 = 0.45 BTC [-] {2}	[22:45]
asciilifeform	what is 'startup' crapola if not 'the 1-year reich'	[22:45]
bounce	can just declare the 10 day reich at home then. take two weeks off, nobody notices. success.	[22:45]
mircea_popescu	:D	[22:45]
mike_c	US became boss, what, when USSR dissolved? 20 years so far.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	mike_c the us was boss roughly speaking 1915 - 1980	[22:46]
bounce	or ten minutes a day, every day. just need staying power.	[22:46]
asciilifeform	reich is not a chess clock.	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	usa and ussr dissolved really at the same time	[22:46]
mircea_popescu	only one admitted to it.	[22:46]
asciilifeform	obligatory:	[22:47]
asciilifeform	http://www.resilience.org/stories/2006-12-04/closing-collapse-gap-ussr-was-better-prepared-collapse-us	[22:47]
ozbot	Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US	[22:47]
bounce	the US found new enemies to fight, as it is wont to do	[22:47]
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asciilifeform	colourful pictures, short sentences. works even for children.	[22:47]
bounce	how long did the ottoman empire take to collapse?	[22:49]
asciilifeform	bounce: perhaps you know how long it lives as 'vegetable', on european loans / shared tech / refraining from zapping	[22:51]
asciilifeform	*lived	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	bounce cca a century.	[22:51]
mircea_popescu	as an english buffer of sorts.	[22:51]
asciilifeform	or hell, why turks were invited into nato	[22:52]
asciilifeform	(same reason)	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	actually it was sensible. turkey should have been taken into the eu in 2006	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	that'd have fully avoided the eu crisis.	[22:52]
mircea_popescu	same thing had the us the ballsack to make iraq the 51st state	[22:52]
asciilifeform	lol!	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	thinkaboutit.jpg	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	i know i would have, congress be damned.	[22:53]
bounce	with erdogan in office? bit against what the eu purports to stand for.	[22:53]
mircea_popescu	nobody asks the eu what it wants to stand for tho.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	the only way to use money in 2006 would have been to lift up turkey.	[22:54]
ThickAsThieves	makes sense to me, you go into a country and have your military running the place for a decade, why not just stake claim?	[22:54]
jurov	how would it avoid the crisis?	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	similarly for dollars and iraq	[22:54]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.056 = 0.56 BTC [+]	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	jurov because it gives economy something to do.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	suddenly there's all these schools to build.	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	all these bank branches	[22:54]
mircea_popescu	and omfg those iraquis don't even get pottery barn catalogs daily ?!	[22:55]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: reminds me of, in reverse: '...Идет пленум ЦК, Генеральный секретарь читает доклад: Больших успехов достигли хлеборобы Кубанщины, Ставропольщины, Смоленщины, Техасщины, Колорадщины.'	[22:55]
asciilifeform	trans.:	[22:55]
B007	asciilifeform: thanks for that link	[22:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05039878 = 0.2016 BTC [+]	[22:55]
asciilifeform	[context: pres. carter dreams a bad dream] - 'plenum of central committee. ussr gensec reads report: great successes by the bread farmers of Kuban, Stavropol, Smolensk, Texas, Colorado provinces...'	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	i wonder how long till #bitcoin-assets gets the webby awards for the coolest place on the web	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	o wait, webby no longer exists huh.	[22:56]
mircea_popescu	awww.	[22:56]
asciilifeform	surely not for this.	[22:56]
jurov	so mircea think "cohesion" transfers to turkey would not caouse even bigger crisis?	[22:56]
asciilifeform	i think everyone east of berlin knows that joke	[22:57]
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bounce	anyway, apropos churchill re americans, the eurocrats have a good track record of starting the same but finishing in the same way hasn't been in strong evidence	[22:57]
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mike_c	webby alive and kicking. https://www.webbyawards.com/	[22:58]
asciilifeform	perhaps we can win a tcpipy. or something.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	jurov pretty sure it wouldn't, no.	[22:58]
mircea_popescu	mike_c ya but you know what i mean. or do you ?	[22:59]
asciilifeform	;;google fukuppy	[22:59]
gribble	Meet Fukuppy, the inadvertent Fukushima mascot \| World news ...: ; Fukuppy, Fukushima Industries new mascot, is branding disaster ...: ; Fukushima Industries New 'Fukuppy' (1 more message)	[22:59]
B007	it's hard to image some of those things happening in the us when it collapses because of its private sector though	[22:59]
mike_c	hey, i was nominated for two webbys just 3 years ago :)	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	lmao	[22:59]
bounce	greece is a shambles, but so far hasn't been too good for the eu economy as a whole. how would turkey have been different?	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	in other news, some guy sold 3500 records debuted in the billboard	[22:59]
mircea_popescu	B007 what private sector ?	[22:59]
B007	all the private companies, landlords	[23:00]
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mircea_popescu	name one ?	[23:00]
jurov	B007: detroit has had very strong private sector once	[23:01]
mike_c	^ excellent point.	[23:02]
B007	google	[23:02]
jurov	yeah, google tends to support common good such as... public transport ? :DDD	[23:04]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05039878 = 0.1512 BTC [+]	[23:05]
jurov	whole internet pokes fun of google buses by now	[23:06]
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mircea_popescu	google is tenuously a private sector corp.	[23:06]
mircea_popescu	it's basically supported by govt-sponsored spending.	[23:06]
jurov	wherever the money comes from, their mindset will be utterly useless in collapse	[23:07]
B007	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_manufacturing_companies_by_revenue	[23:08]
ozbot	List of largest manufacturing companies by revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	where the money comes from shapes the mindset.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	that's why start-ups can be easily destroyed by getting the wrong money sources early.	[23:08]
B007	why would the govt sponser google?	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	general electric, ford and hp are all kept on respirators by public usg spending.	[23:08]
mircea_popescu	B007 because it can't avoid it.	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	tbh procter and gamble may be the first item on that list able to duke it on its own	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	barely top 50	[23:09]
B007	any facts about money google receives from govt?	[23:09]
mircea_popescu	you familiar with the yahoo dotcom boom cycle ?	[23:10]
mircea_popescu	(if not, graham explains it better than i could : http://www.paulgraham.com/yahoo.html )	[23:11]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07379499 = 0.1476 BTC [-]	[23:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]	[23:15]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.0029 = 0.1044 BTC [-]	[23:15]
bitcoinpete	mircea_popescu: quite enjoyed your fun article. the sizes of the gaps between those layers is nothing to sneeze at :)	[23:17]
TestingUnoDosTre	: interesting list, never heard of Hon Hai Precision Industries before	[23:18]
mircea_popescu	should have a bet as to wehen the first bitcoin corp makes the top	[23:18]
bounce	holding corp of... foxconn, wasn't it?	[23:19]
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bitcoinpete	http://venturebeat.com/2014/03/25/kraken-a-bitcoin-exchange-raises-5m/	[23:19]
ozbot	Kraken, a Bitcoin exchange, raises $5M \| VentureBeat \| Deals \| by J. O'Dell	[23:19]
bitcoinpete	apologies if repost	[23:20]
B007	so if google in the next yahoo, who is the next google?	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	yeah hon hai is mostly foxconn	[23:22]
mircea_popescu	funny how it ranks above apple.	[23:22]
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mircea_popescu	B007 mpoe.	[23:22]
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TestingUnoDosTre	looks like you're correct	[23:25]
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mircea_popescu	"If circumstances had been different, the people running Yahoo might have realized sooner how important search was. But they had the most opaque obstacle in the world between them and the truth: money."	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	epic quote.	[23:27]
mircea_popescu	lampelina and who might you be ?	[23:28]
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mike_c	lampelina runs b-a.com now. hopefully she will remove the password requirement soon ;)	[23:29]
asciilifeform	http://forums.3dtotal.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168068 ?	[23:29]
jurov	hehe	[23:30]
jurov	no they guessed right that advertising is important. search is "only" the precursor for the addiction	[23:31]
bounce	TestingUnoDosTre: I didn't say that	[23:32]
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mircea_popescu	haha	[23:33]
thestringpuller	lole MPOE is not an options emporium anymore	[23:33]
thestringpuller	lolololol	[23:33]
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B007	http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/irs-bitcoin-is-property-like-a-stock-or-bond-and-not-a-currency/	[23:38]
ozbot	IRS: Bitcoin is property, like a stock or bond, and not a currency \| Ars Technica	[23:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.61076841 = 10.3831 BTC [-] {8}	[23:38]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07379689 = 0.1476 BTC [+]	[23:38]
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B007	http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/03/397-billion-fighter-jet-deployment-may-be-delayed-by-software-glitches/	[23:45]
ozbot	$397 billion fighter jet deployment may be delayed by software glitches \| Ars Technica	[23:45]
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asciilifeform	B007: since when, 1970? it's the same airplane every time	[23:45]
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mircea_popescu	lol	[23:46]
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mike_c	it's good to be lockheed.. best lobbyists in the industry.	[23:46]
lampelina	mike_c, will do my best for site to be up asap	[23:46]
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benkay	thestringpuller: 'mpoe' is now an artifact of history	[23:47]
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mircea_popescu	soo... inb4 500 bitcointalk threads where all sorts of experts explain how mp was indeed right and they were indeed clueless ?	[23:47]
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assbot	[HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1465 @ 0.00013502 = 0.1978 BTC [+] {4}	[23:48]
mike_c	lampelina: no rush, just teasing. good luck running it.	[23:49]
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mircea_popescu	https://twitter.com/lampelina ftr	[23:49]
ozbot	Maja L. (lampelina) on Twitter	[23:49]
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mircea_popescu	"It's hard for anyone much younger than me to understand the fear Microsoft still inspired in 1995."	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	ehehehe	[23:51]
mircea_popescu	i think it'll be hard for anyone born after 1990 or so to even understand fear.	[23:51]
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asciilifeform	http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129759496251093@naggum.no.html	[23:53]
ozbot	Re: A draft business plan for free software LISP vendors - Naggum cll archive	[23:53]
B007	what is fear?	[23:53]
asciilifeform	(re: microshit)	[23:53]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05039673 = 0.1512 BTC [+]	[23:53]
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mircea_popescu	B007 fear is when you understand what kills you before it actually does.	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	just another way of not being dumb as rocks, as it were.	[23:54]
asciilifeform	on the flip side of this, 'coward dies a thousand deaths, brave man - one'	[23:54]
mike_c	say what you will about "microshit", but bill gates was/is a hell of a businessman.	[23:54]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform a brave man and a fearless man don't map well.	[23:55]
mike_c	he justifiably instilled more fear than steve jobs ever did.	[23:55]
assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00095273 = 6.4309 BTC [-]	[23:55]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05039873 = 0.1008 BTC [+] {2}	[23:55]
asciilifeform	well yes. the latter is more like the famous disease where the victim cannot feel pain.	[23:55]
*	El3k0n has quit (Quit: Leaving)	[23:56]
asciilifeform	mike_c: the microshit style of 'doing business' goes a long way to explaining the popularity of communism, etc. among technical types.	[23:56]
mike_c	whaat?	[23:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0560714 = 0.3925 BTC [+] {3}	[23:56]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]	[23:56]
mike_c	how so?	[23:56]
mircea_popescu	"nobody should have the power to tell us what to do"	[23:56]
*	saulimus (~someone@gprs-internet-bceed3-26.dhcp.inet.fi) has joined #bitcoin-assets	[23:57]
BingoBoingo	Does S.NSA have a LISP fighter jet in its long term plans?	[23:57]
mike_c	nobody does have the power to tell the powerful what to do. mp has stated that some 5 million times.	[23:57]
asciilifeform	the notion that ms turdware is a product of any kind of free market or competition on technical merit is a real comedy.	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	mike_c but how dares microsoft tell x y z ppl what to do!	[23:57]
assbot	[HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04710002 = 0.1884 BTC [-]	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	"well ithas the money" "well then money is bad"	[23:57]
mike_c	asciilifeform: hence his business acumen.	[23:57]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform let's argue this.	[23:58]
mircea_popescu	when microsoft was born, ibm was much larger. how did it eat ibm's lunch ?	[23:58]
asciilifeform	mike_c: by that token, we should look up to 1990s russian mob as business teachers. 'take contract on creditor when cheaper than paying back loan', rectothermal cryptoanalysis, the joys.	[23:58]
asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i presume you know the story of msdos	[23:59]
mike_c	microsoft didn't shove a cattle prod up anyone's ass.	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i do. what part of that is not free market ?	[23:59]
asciilifeform	inherited ibm's monopoly	[23:59]
mircea_popescu	why didn't you ?	[23:59]
asciilifeform	ultimately usg sponsored.	[23:59]

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