Forum logs for 13 Nov 2014

Sunday, 24 November, Year 11 d.Tr. | Author: Mircea Popescu
mircea_popescu nubbins` 55c ? [00:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform what did it say if anything ? [00:00]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as far as i can see - it merely disappeared into the aether. [00:01]
jborkl_ yeah, I have the chicken and the egg problem. Now I have traffic, but not know what to do with it. I concentrated so much on making it all and writing the code, I never thought what was next [00:01]
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asciilifeform jurov: i received nothing, i thought that was clear. [00:11]
asciilifeform jurov: sent message, correctly formatted, patch and patch sig attached, nothing happened. [00:12]
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asciilifeform jurov: ok, registered now. [00:13]
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cazalla jborkl_, have you considered writing for qntra? [00:15]
asciilifeform jurov: sent again - no dice? [00:16]
cazalla !up jborkl_ [00:16]
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asciilifeform jurov: and why not here: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-November/thread.html ? [00:17]
assbot The BTC-dev November 2014 Archive by thread [00:17]
asciilifeform jurov: caching? [00:18]
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asciilifeform jurov: nothing in my email either. [00:20]
asciilifeform jurov: yes looked. [00:20]
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asciilifeform jurov: my mailbox is not at fault, it works for everyone else. [00:24]
asciilifeform jurov: problem is 100% on your end. [00:25]
jurov that's incredibly helpful, thanks [00:25]
asciilifeform jurov: that, or we don't have a working internet yet. [00:26]
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jurov i'm out of ideas. maybe it got greylisted but then the log would say sth else [00:27]
mircea_popescu jurov it shows your own emails but not his ? [00:29]
asciilifeform jurov: i don't have any fancy filtration on my end [00:30]
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asciilifeform jurov: but so far the results are not encouraging. email doesn't really work! [00:30]
jurov mx-fwd-1.nearlyfreespeech.net isn't your machine? [00:30]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform in its defense, email hasn't really worked for ~40 years now. [00:31]
asciilifeform jurov: it's a relayer, but it has never failed. not once. [00:31]
mircea_popescu vaguely related, how long you been using these guys ? do you know em ? [00:33]
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mircea_popescu !up novusordo [00:34]
-assbot- You voiced novusordo for 30 minutes. [00:34]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i've been using that hoster since starting my site, >7yrs. ago. they're absolutely super. the cost is virtually unbeatable for low-traffic, simple sites. and, on top of this, almost wholly ddos-proof. [00:35]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: afaik they only eat usd however. [00:35]
mircea_popescu a) do you know them ? and b) can they be lured or strongarmed into taking bitcoin ? [00:35]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i don't know them alive, no. but it is entirely possible that they could be lured. it's a small family op, afaik. [00:36]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform write to the owner/admin/whatever ticket system you use, tell him that i am offering $100 in bitcoin if they as much as show up here, to claim it. [00:36]
mircea_popescu that can't possibly take em an hour. [00:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i learned of them when looked for a hoster that specializes in censor resistance (through traditional legal-wrangling, rather than fancy tech. it was another age.) [00:36]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i shall write. [00:37]
novusordo asciilifeform: what hoster are you discussing? been looking for one myself. [00:37]
mircea_popescu novusordo https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/ [00:37]
assbot About NearlyFreeSpeech.NET [00:37]
asciilifeform novusordo: 'nearly free speech' [00:37]
novusordo thanks [00:37]
mircea_popescu anyway, i must say i am thankful to the "experts". they've got the rot so advanced by now it's sufficient to look at a site and know you're dealing with actual experts. [00:38]
mircea_popescu greatly simplifies the process and saves me a bundle of moneyz this. [00:38]
novusordo after reading some of the FAQ it sounds like they follow much of the same philosophy as tarsnap. [00:45]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wrote letter. [00:46]
mircea_popescu danke. [00:46]
mircea_popescu novusordo i thought that was a backup solution [00:47]
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mircea_popescu but speaking of which... it does sort-of tie into yest discussion asciilifeform [00:47]
mircea_popescu how about something like tarsnap ? [00:47]
novusordo yeah it is a backup solution [00:47]
novusordo not hosting [00:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: tarsnap isn't really a public access gizmo [00:48]
novusordo but by same philosophy I meant in pricing [00:48]
novusordo pay-for-what-you-use [00:48]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform but neither is bitcoin. [00:48]
mircea_popescu as long as it's an anon expert access gizmo, it should qualify neh ? [00:48]
mircea_popescu "public access" is a myth, of the same substance as the man-month. [00:48]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what i meant was, that it offers no useful mechanisms for anything other than, well, making ordinary backups for own use. [00:49]
scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/11/bnp-paribas-five-ways-bitcoin-could-shake-up-finance/ [00:49]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you have some notion of how to transmute that into a solution to yesterday's conundrum - i'm all ears. [00:50]
mircea_popescu i guess my idea reduces to "paint a brick black and pray to it" huh. [00:52]
mircea_popescu a well. [00:52]
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The20YearIRCloud Looks like we (RentalStarter) are in contract for two more homes, putting our total to 12 properties / 17 units [00:53]
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Apocalyptic cazalla, re your article, "once regulators and politicians control and enable the continued development of Bitcoin", they can't be that clueless, how the hell do they hope to "control the continued development" ? by sending a gavin-bis ? [00:55]
scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/11/ethereums-contract-language-implemented-on-the-bitcoin-blockchain-with-counterparty/ [00:55]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://www.nearlyfreespeech.net/about/belief2002 [00:55]
mircea_popescu Apocalyptic lulz gotta lulz. [00:55]
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mircea_popescu cazalla did you mean to say "the article is trying to push the humorous theory" instead of "concludes" ? [00:57]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nice blast from teh past huh. [00:58]
Apocalyptic mircea_popescu, that's a much better formulation [00:58]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XwwiZPPa [01:00]
mircea_popescu you must be logged in to access this area.... [01:01]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/bQyAKJqY << here. [01:02]
assbot NearlyFreeSpeech.NET Forum Index Member Support Forums SearchSearch Regi - Pastebin.com [01:02]
mircea_popescu lol 10k ? [01:03]
mircea_popescu a well. [01:03]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the sad part is, they have a point. they can't eat it. [01:03]
mircea_popescu they can't eat it, they can't leave. [01:04]
mircea_popescu i also have a point. [01:04]
mircea_popescu live* [01:04]
mircea_popescu but i'll make sure to charge a mango my digestion fees next i run into one. [01:04]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mango happily pays. that's what digestion is all about. [01:05]
mircea_popescu so did i. well, up until 5 minutes ago. [01:05]
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mircea_popescu as a matter of policy, it will now cost these guys 10k to get any of my business, and if they ever get into the wot i'll negrate them right off. [01:05]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lol. why the emotion. the article told the sad truth: 'We have nothing to spend bitcoins on...' [01:06]
mircea_popescu no emotion. i am telling the sad truth just as much : adapt or die. [01:06]
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mircea_popescu bitcoin is not here asking random derp some favours. no matter who the derp thinks he is. [01:07]
mircea_popescu bitcoin is his lifeline. pass on it, well... death. [01:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this death is a collective one. or, go try to tell the nearly free speech folks how to get their upstream isp to take btc, and where to get spare disks and pizza for it, and in such a way that it doesn't immediately end up in the waterfall, etc. [01:08]
mircea_popescu color me a color that connotes caring. [01:09]
mircea_popescu im sure the mango is going to want to talk to the upstream enzymes about matters too ? [01:09]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31228 @ 0.00056414 = 17.617 BTC [-] {2} [01:09]
undata asciilifeform: so sell out when you receive them via derpbase? [01:09]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: how do you buy things with btc that don't end up in the waterfall? [01:09]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no one was asked to care, but trying to explain here that folks are sizzling in an electric chair not necessarily of their own making, rather than simple death through individual folly [01:09]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller actually, here's a fun notion : outside of trilema credits, pretty much everything is really just facelifted paypal. [01:10]
mircea_popescu so in a sense, i'm the one thing supporting this here bitcoin economy. [01:10]
cazalla Apocalyptic, mircea_popescu, i will go cry in the corner and rethink my approach [01:10]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah, it's their folly. [01:10]
mircea_popescu many smart people suffer from the what's his face mental issues [01:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: care to draw a simple picture of what you'd do in their place ? [01:11]
mircea_popescu jesus, who was the electrician turned expert in physics again ? [01:11]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: tesla? [01:11]
thestringpuller mircea_popescu: seems the only option is the swap coins with someone who isn't going to put them in the waterfall :P [01:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform either take the hundred offer or go to war. [01:11]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah nah brb digging archives [01:11]
mircea_popescu ;;google site:trilema.com how to fail [01:12]
gribble How to fail - the Scott Locklin method. pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: ; It's been an epic few days: What happened? pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: ; In defense of the troll pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: [01:12]
mircea_popescu there we go. [01:12]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: physics student turned electrician (experimental physics) turned 'quant' aha. [01:12]
mircea_popescu "oh i am great and speshul and what is this thing" [01:12]
mircea_popescu should be in the dsm-6, this,. [01:12]
mircea_popescu "thought bitcoin is some sort of optional thing like widescreen tvs or some shit" [01:13]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that is still not how i read that one. it was more of a 'what is this martian trinary computer, where can i plug it in? with what sauce can i eat it'. and iirc that was your own initial reaction in '11. [01:13]
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mircea_popescu my reaction was subtly but essentialy different. it was "how do you expect this to work ?" [01:13]
mircea_popescu cue me in 2011 going "sorry, but unless you folks do my homework for me bitcoin sucks. i got math and rom lit." [01:14]
mircea_popescu and in any effect, i most motherfucking DEFINITELY did what told, by the people who knew [01:14]
mircea_popescu rather than try to conjure up imaginary molehils of secure superiority to take refuge upon. [01:15]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my reaction just now was 'why won't they show up and at least talk' but then realized that this may be the flip side of the medal, so to speak, of the same conservative thinking that ultimately made n.f.s. co. even interesting in the first place (they've resisted every known variety of crud) [01:17]
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mircea_popescu no argument. [01:17]
mircea_popescu this is a major blindspot of the conservative mindset : rigidity. [01:18]
mircea_popescu the fact that the spots go on the cheetah as part of what it is saved no cheetah to date. [01:18]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: but brings back to the fact that usaschwitz is a thing. if i presently had to rely on btc for anything life-sustaining, i'd be quite dead. [01:18]
mircea_popescu yet here you are. [01:19]
mircea_popescu somehow you're of worse human quality than jeff is the argument here ? [01:19]
mircea_popescu it's ok for you but too much to ask of him ? [01:19]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: death is a hard boundary for experiments. once dead, no 'let's try this differently' [01:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48555 @ 0.00056475 = 27.4214 BTC [+] {2} [01:19]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i weigh less than an isp/hoster/restaurant/etc. yes. [01:19]
mircea_popescu plenty of people manage to juggle a wife and a job and an insane government and still be here. i'm not one of them, as it happens, but that's neither here nor there : to condone jeffidiocy would be more of an insult to their otherwise unguilty face than i can stomach. [01:20]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fact is, i and the other jugglers - find ways to hoover up enough usd to pay the usd-eaters in. [01:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.0005676 = 3.4056 BTC [+] [01:22]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: moving a functioning usd-fueled business to btc - other matter. especially if you're sensitive about not wishing to fatten vultures. [01:25]
mircea_popescu you can still take a quarter. [01:26]
mircea_popescu fuck, maybe the people throwing away quarters know all about n answers you can't find on your own. [01:26]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: can't really argue that 'no we won't even talk' was a correct answer. but i do understand how a n00b might associate bitcoin as-a-concept with the derps and sp4mz0rs. [01:27]
mircea_popescu but no, because conservative mindset depends on random derp being the king of all creation. which works about as well as you'd expect, boring in the bedroom, offensive in the forum, etc. [01:27]
mircea_popescu i can also understand how half the heads populating pikes around the stronghold used to be attached to people who didn't mean to. [01:28]
mircea_popescu what's that do for us ? [01:28]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if there's a psychiatric lesson here, it is that resisting crud is not necessarily from cleverness, but could also be on account of being a goat herder in afghanistan and what even is all this recycled food. [01:30]
mircea_popescu surely. [01:30]
mircea_popescu which is why distinction is so important and processes that enact it so useful. [01:30]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: one could also hypothesize again about 'married men' and who can or cannot afford to take what risk, etc. [01:30]
mircea_popescu anyway, my takeaway is that firmness is a quality, but rigidity a sin. the boob rule : good if made out of young woman, bad if made out of bone. [01:31]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and the remaining lesson, possibly, is that we are still without a general-purpose btc-powered hoster. [01:32]
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mircea_popescu maybe PinkPosixPXE chick gets her dusts in a row. [01:32]
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mircea_popescu !up hank_ [01:36]
-assbot- You voiced hank_ for 30 minutes. [01:36]
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thestringpuller asciilifeform: i picked out an XMas present for you early. [01:39]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33941 @ 0.0005676 = 19.2649 BTC [+] [01:44]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53817 @ 0.00056186 = 30.2376 BTC [-] [01:49]
BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Of course all of those agents were found because after seeing folate's role in cell synthesis, feeding a bunch of leukemias high dose folate was assumed to be the way. It helped the cancer so much! [01:50]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 17183 @ 0.0012 = 20.6196 BTC [02:07]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00056001 = 6.9441 BTC [-] [02:21]
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mike_c just in case it's helpful, i was seeing some wonkiness with mpex.ws last night too but didn't have time to debug. so the problem may be 24+ hours old. [02:25]
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mircea_popescu just about. [02:28]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00056001 = 18.9843 BTC [-] [02:32]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13378 @ 0.00055966 = 7.4871 BTC [-] {2} [02:38]
mircea_popescu notary deed http://pastebin.com/CXcwTz7S [02:40]
notary mircea_popescu: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [02:40]
assbot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Your dividend payment for S. - Pastebin.com [02:40]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo heh myeah. [02:50]
mircea_popescu medicine is a... strongly experimental science. [02:50]
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cazalla BingoBoingo: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0065.mediawiki <<< anyone care to provide thoughts on whether this is a good or bad thing? [03:24]
assbot bips/bip-0065.mediawiki at master · bitcoin/bips · GitHub [03:24]
BingoBoingo On it's own it's a naive thing, but the conversation around it will lead to bad things as it will probably lead to hard fork talk to set the stage for the blocksize increase discussion. [03:26]
cazalla there you go thestringpuller, i was almost right [03:26]
cazalla well, on target [03:26]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/Bn88rOZ [03:36]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13607 @ 0.00056017 = 7.6222 BTC [+] [03:36]
assbot asciilifeform's mail - Imgur [03:36]
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dub 1% losses for shareholders on s.wol is one interpretation [03:42]
dub i think its worth noting that for eveyone other than mp and mike it was a 50-80% loss [03:43]
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asciilifeform BingoBoingo: bip-0065 << classic 'relevance farming.' the phoundation will take any excuse to add cruft to the gizmo. in their fantasy, folks will use it, and those who have resisted their turds will be forced to merge in. [03:48]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the great fork war is inevitable. and we know what is on their side of the line. but what is on the other? the miners' mystery forks? our gadget, that doesn't even load the blockchain? [03:49]
BingoBoingo The Manul's greatest asset in combat is that through the fur, an adversary can not tell from where on the moving limbs the claws will emerge [03:52]
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asciilifeform !s in the game of chess you must never [03:52]
assbot 1 results for 'in the game of chess you must never' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=in+the+game+of+chess+you+must+never [03:52]
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BingoBoingo Well, that's why I prefer playing as black and starting with small pawn moves. Harder for the opponent to see in the dark. [03:55]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform ahahaha wow. [03:57]
mircea_popescu was it read ? [03:57]
asciilifeform i only just now opened it! [03:57]
asciilifeform and more mysteries: [03:57]
mircea_popescu i mean b4 [03:57]
asciilifeform http://imgur.com/KunZAwf [03:57]
mircea_popescu is it used ? [03:57]
assbot imgur: the simple image sharer [03:57]
asciilifeform why isbn is shit... [03:57]
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asciilifeform and why is 'zenofeller.com' now a linkpharm? [03:57]
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asciilifeform book was clearly thumbed [03:58]
asciilifeform and has a most peculiar smell, like old turkish bubble-gum [03:58]
asciilifeform faint but detectable. [03:58]
mircea_popescu ha! [03:59]
mircea_popescu lol you can read leetspeak nao ? [04:00]
asciilifeform n3v3r [04:00]
* asciilifeform admits he parsed 'b4' as half a chess tuple [04:01]
asciilifeform but that's BingoBoingo's fault [04:01]
mircea_popescu lol [04:01]
asciilifeform at any rate, chukcha is a writer not reader. [04:01]
mircea_popescu !t m s.wol [04:02]
assbot [MPEX:S.WOL] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: / / ( shares, BTC), 30D: 0.000086 / 0.000086 / 0.000086 (2 shares, 0.00 BTC) [04:02]
mircea_popescu hm lessee here. [04:02]
mircea_popescu dub total satoshsi : 2129446090 total shares 525903 [04:04]
mircea_popescu that means an average lifetime price of 4k, it closed at ~3k. [04:04]
mircea_popescu that aside, mp and mike sold what was it, 5 btc worth at 3k. [04:05]
mircea_popescu that leaves a 16 btc worth of volume, which was exactly half making a gain while exactly the other half made a loss. [04:05]
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mircea_popescu kinda how this entire trading thing goes. [04:06]
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mircea_popescu BingoBoingo: the great fork war is inevitable. and we know what is on their side of the line. << do tell ? [04:10]
mircea_popescu what was on "their" side of the line keeping skirts below the knee ? [04:10]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: on their side - presumably, the turd. [04:10]
asciilifeform their turd. [04:10]
mircea_popescu the jeff of 1950 knew all about how computers "won't catch on" [04:10]
mircea_popescu there's never anything on their side of the line is the thing. [04:11]
* mircea_popescu remembers a time "the line" was, you gotta raise a woman's kids to get laid and you gotta pay a hooker to get your cock sucked. [04:12]
mircea_popescu worked so admirably well, teh line. [04:12]
asciilifeform did not say 'they' win. said - there shall be war. [04:13]
mircea_popescu after a fashion. [04:13]
mircea_popescu but yes. definitely. [04:14]
* asciilifeform armchair admiral, and cannot presume to know what sort of war, fought with what [04:14]
mircea_popescu would be a sore loss to win without a war. instead of a solid enjoyment of rape and plunder, do not pass go, directly to the trudge of administration ? [04:14]
mircea_popescu fuck that. [04:14]
mircea_popescu war is generally the best part. [04:15]
asciilifeform at any rate, 'jeff of 1950' was not entirely wrong; computers have yet to really catch on... [04:15]
mircea_popescu ofcourse. [04:15]
mircea_popescu which is why either he has one or his kids want one for xmas. [04:16]
mircea_popescu !up Vexual [04:16]
-assbot- You voiced Vexual for 30 minutes. [04:16]
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Vexual thanks for the link to your blogpost mp, not I know what I sound like 3 force drunk [04:17]
mircea_popescu lol [04:17]
Vexual what happened with wol? [04:19]
Vexual all the players died from seizures or something? [04:21]
mircea_popescu it got no love [04:21]
BingoBoingo It's parimutuel model was prolly too fair in pricing [04:21]
undata asciilifeform | at any rate, 'jeff of 1950' was not entirely wrong; computers have yet to really catch on... << this printing thing hasn't really caught on yet; all they're printing are more bibles [04:25]
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BingoBoingo http://theweek.com/article/index/271644/its-time-to-abolish-the-interstate-highway-system [04:34]
assbot It's time to abolish the Interstate Highway System - The Week [04:34]
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nubbins` Looks like we (RentalStarter) are in contract for two more homes, putting our total to 12 properties / 17 units [04:36]
BingoBoingo ^ The TLDR, shift some bezzel around and make it easier for the US to partition further [04:36]
nubbins` at this rate you'll have the first poster given away in no time 8) [04:36]
The20YearIRCloud already given away a few of em nubbins` [04:37]
nubbins` i eagerly await pictures [04:37]
The20YearIRCloud i gave em instructions [04:37]
nubbins` fwiw i think they'd have been better served given to people who we'd like to see in here, but hey, i'm just the printer 8) [04:37]
nubbins` and i guess taleb's mailing address is hard to find. [04:38]
Vexual send it to his publisher [04:38]
The20YearIRCloud I wanted to run a contest and give a few away to non-tenants, as they'd likely have much more of a desire for em [04:38]
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The20YearIRCloud most of our tenants don't have PCs [04:39]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker [04:39]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 431.29, Best ask: 431.94, Bid-ask spread: 0.65000, Last trade: 431.94, 24 hour volume: 45124.17445036, 24 hour low: 375.97, 24 hour high: 434.8, 24 hour vwap: 408.121751826 [04:39]
BingoBoingo What about lacquering them onto the doors? [04:40]
The20YearIRCloud lol, that could be interesting [04:40]
asciilifeform most of our tenants don't have PCs << wai wat [04:46]
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Vexual yeah, that got me too [04:46]
asciilifeform they are paying in btc without computer ? [04:46]
Vexual paper moeny [04:46]
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The20YearIRCloud Money, cash, cashier's checks, checks, ect, no one so far has ever heard of BTC, along with most not having access to a computer [04:49]
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asciilifeform The20YearIRCloud: where does the btc come in then [04:49]
* asciilifeform thought 'rentalstarter' was a btc thing [04:50]
The20YearIRCloud tenants pay in USD [04:50]
The20YearIRCloud otherwise we'd be broke [04:50]
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mircea_popescu "T [04:50]
mircea_popescu he 114th Congress may seem like an unlikely source of major reform. With the Republicans in control of both houses and a second-term Democratic president wielding the veto pen" [04:50]
mircea_popescu ahem. yeah it's a likely source of major fucking reform. [04:50]
mircea_popescu consisting principally of throwing out 80 years of accumulated gunk masquerading as "reform" [04:50]
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mircea_popescu from delano to obama, a bridge of shit. [04:51]
decimation asciilifeform: I finished 17 moments of spring, thanks for the recommendation. It was an interesting show [04:51]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu: from delano to obama << 'от ильича до ильича' [04:51]
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asciilifeform decimation: aha [04:52]
decimation mircea_popescu: in the us it is customary to label any policy whatsoever as 'reform' [04:52]
mircea_popescu my point exactly. [04:53]
decimation like the national assembly in revolutionary france, congress feels that they can make policy about anything whatsoever [04:54]
* asciilifeform would love to read a collection of all the u.s. federal laws that claim extraterritoriality. [04:54]
mircea_popescu ^ [04:55]
asciilifeform i can remember a few - the one with the flag-less submarines, and the one forbidding any biped on planet 3 from working on nukes without u.s. blessing [04:55]
mircea_popescu that us libtards gave themselves and in their own mind some sort of major role in the world is novel. [04:55]
decimation the first one that comes to mind are the 'foreign banking' laws w.r.t. us citizens [04:55]
mircea_popescu for most of its history, the us knew better, an saw itself as a minor player. [04:55]
asciilifeform citizens - yes. i was thinking of other [04:55]
asciilifeform that is, there are actually laws on the books which specifically say 'anyone, anywhere, whether he even knows we exist' [04:56]
decimation another famous one is the law that bans illegal wood harvest anywhere in the world [04:56]
decimation the 'lacey act' [04:57]
The20YearIRCloud poor gibson guitars :( [04:58]
decimation yep [04:58]
decimation in the early constitution era it was thought that congress was limited to passing laws about things that were actually mentioned in their charter in the constitution [04:58]
decimation lincoln and then fdr removed that restriction [04:58]
mircea_popescu " If we could even get ourselves down to a Western European level of car dependence, we would cut road fatalities to a third of their present value and improve our quality of life in innumerable ways." [04:59]
mircea_popescu yah lol. how to become europe ? "insert toll roads" [04:59]
asciilifeform http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2285 [04:59]
assbot 18 U.S. Code § 2285 - Operation of submersible vessel or semi-submersible vessel without nationality | LII / Legal Information Institute [04:59]
mircea_popescu totally. i like thios reasoning. [04:59]
asciilifeform ^ submarines [04:59]
mircea_popescu maybe the author could be come a girl by selling lipstick. [04:59]
decimation mircea_popescu: usians hate the idea of paying for roads [04:59]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform that's hardly noteworthy. for as long as navigation was a thing, navigating without a banner meant being an outlaw. [05:00]
asciilifeform u.s. navy sub - also outlaw? [05:00]
mircea_popescu decimation point being, europe is europe because it's europe, not because some kansas kids decided to wear bedsheets once and poof. [05:00]
decimation yeah actually I agree with that law [05:00]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform if it goes without a banner, yes. [05:00]
asciilifeform banner underwater? [05:00]
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decimation hehe [05:01]
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BingoBoingo !Up cascadian_derper [05:01]
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decimation mircea_popescu: yeah, but there's something lacking in the us - they can't seem to believe that they have their own culture and avoid trying to make one [05:01]
mircea_popescu well, "banner" [05:01]
cascadian_derper ah lovely someone's watching [05:02]
mircea_popescu decimation who has his own culture you mean ? [05:02]
decimation well, kansas for instance [05:02]
mircea_popescu i dun see it. [05:02]
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cascadian_derper thanks for participating in my live fire, bb [05:02]
mircea_popescu kansas culture = "move to ny, for a better life" + "check out the corn!!1" [05:02]
decimation they actually do have a culture, it is just roundly rejected by every elite with a printing press [05:02]
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mircea_popescu well ? [05:02]
mircea_popescu what is this then, folklore ? [05:03]
mircea_popescu !up Derp [05:03]
-assbot- You voiced Derp for 30 minutes. [05:03]
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mircea_popescu the us may only have a folklore after 2276. [05:03]
mircea_popescu check back in 1/4 millenium. [05:03]
decimation yeah, it'll be viva la reconquista [05:04]
asciilifeform http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/47a << mega-lol [05:04]
assbot 50 U.S. Code § 47a - Information concerning illegal introduction, manufacture, acquisition or export of special nuclear material or atomic weapons or conspiracies relating thereto; reward | LII / Legal Information Institute [05:04]
decimation I think that the low country "jante law" culture is one of the things that provides an impetus to the lack of us folklore/home culture [05:05]
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cascadian_derper .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=f8nwfQx1 [05:06]
notary cascadian_derper: Queued 1 valid deed for next bundle. [05:06]
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mircea_popescu it's just too damned young. [05:06]
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decimation yeah that's true [05:06]
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decimation plus, the radical egalitarianism is like an acid that dissolves the nascent culture before it begins [05:07]
ben_vulpes nah just polishing off a bottle of champagne in the office [05:07]
ben_vulpes whoop [05:07]
ben_vulpes wrong channel, perdon [05:07]
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hanbot wrong channel, perignon << ftfy [05:09]
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decimation heh [05:09]
mircea_popescu decimation this is not true. [05:09]
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mircea_popescu the russians had the mir for as long as the memory goes, and yet. [05:09]
ben_vulpes clever you, hanbot. it's cremant du jura though. [05:10]
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decimation you mean the space station :) [05:10]
mircea_popescu nah, the mir, the village "corporation" of sorts. [05:11]
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ben_vulpes what is scoopbot's actual uptime? [05:12]
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ben_vulpes PeterL: do you need a hand with stabilizing that thing? [05:13]
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mircea_popescu decimation it owned all the land, and allocated it. it owned the peasants, and regulated their life. basically think beehive with the queen unembodied. [05:13]
PeterL sorry, trying to fix it right now [05:13]
decimation so your point is that the lack of egalitarianism did not foster a culture? [05:15]
ben_vulpes PeterL: i'm not trying to make you cry, but mebbe offer suggestions how to keep the thing up [05:15]
ben_vulpes are you still running it in a screen session or whatever? [05:15]
ben_vulpes !up Vexual [05:15]
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decimation PeterL: does it reconnect? [05:16]
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PeterL no, not yet, I'm gonna swith it to a different chan for a minute while I derp with it a bit [05:17]
asciilifeform http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/2122 [05:18]
assbot 42 U.S. Code § 2122 - Prohibitions governing atomic weapons | LII / Legal Information Institute [05:18]
asciilifeform ^ the nuke thing. [05:18]
asciilifeform finally found it. [05:18]
asciilifeform 'It shall be unlawful, except as provided in section 2121 of this title, for any person, inside or outside of the United States, to knowingly participate in the development of, manufacture, produce, transfer, acquire, receive, possess, import, export, or use, or possess and threaten to use, any atomic weapon.' [05:18]
asciilifeform just think, kurchatov or sakharov, could have sat in an american jail [05:18]
asciilifeform if somehow caught. [05:18]
decimation presumably 'person' means 'person to which us law applies' [05:18]
asciilifeform nope. [05:18]
asciilifeform person. [05:19]
asciilifeform normally they state 'u.s. subject' or similar. [05:19]
decimation asciilifeform: 'person' is an overloaded word in us law [05:19]
ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: http://imgur.com/Bn88rOZ << ahaha i remember fucking with solenoids [05:19]
assbot asciilifeform's mail - Imgur [05:19]
ben_vulpes asciilifeform: damn did you hoover up the only copy? [05:20]
asciilifeform idk how many copies. [05:20]
asciilifeform ask mircea_popescu [05:20]
ben_vulpes well on 'amazon "book" services' [05:20]
ben_vulpes *** assbot (~assbot@unaffiliated/kakobrekla/bot/assbot) has changed mode for #bitcoin-assets to +v JorgePasada << where's my node, bitch [05:21]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes: http://www.amazon.com//gp/offer-listing/B000MOLJGI/sr=/qid=/?condition=used&tag=bkfndr76-20 [05:21]
ben_vulpes ;;later tell JorgePasada see above [05:21]
gribble The operation succeeded. [05:21]
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ben_vulpes mm gratzi asciilifeform [05:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12232 @ 0.00056379 = 6.8963 BTC [+] [05:22]
ben_vulpes holy shit mpoe clearing at 56k [05:22]
ben_vulpes market hates you mircea_popescu [05:23]
ben_vulpes clearly wagering on usg winning this round [05:23]
decimation I guess 'person' means whatever some court finds that it means, when they are presented with the question [05:23]
ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: the great fork war is inevitable. and we know what is on their side of the line. but what is on the other? the miners' mystery forks? our gadget, that doesn't even load the blockchain? << consider the gadget a piece of art. as always, the miners determine everything. [05:24]
Vexual decimation: Personne physique [05:26]
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assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 5821 @ 0.0012 = 6.9852 BTC [05:33]
Vexual ;;ticker [05:34]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 438.18, Best ask: 438.3, Bid-ask spread: 0.12000, Last trade: 438.18, 24 hour volume: 45394.86406201, 24 hour low: 377.6, 24 hour high: 438.3, 24 hour vwap: 408.920744472 [05:34]
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mircea_popescu decimation> so your point is that the lack of egalitarianism did not foster a culture? << my point being that culture is strictly a matter of time. how people organise is irrelevant. which also means there's no shortcuts. [05:41]
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mircea_popescu ;;calc 330/420 * 66 [05:43]
gribble 51.8571428571 [05:43]
mircea_popescu maybe it's scaling with the usg *gasp* [05:44]
decimation yet, us folk come from somewhere, where did that culture go? [05:44]
mircea_popescu iroquis also came from somewhere, but once they came, it was all new. [05:44]
mircea_popescu for that matter, the germans come from fucking central asia. so what of it. [05:44]
mircea_popescu the zulus managed to start over each century moving 100 miles. [05:45]
Vexual and then some [05:45]
Vexual those guys don't fuck around [05:45]
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decimation "Zulu" was a good movie [05:46]
decimation !up Vexual [05:46]
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Vexual Might give it a look, The tourist was watchable [05:47]
decimation mircea_popescu: yeah that formula 'fits' - culture is derived in a convergence of circumstances + time [05:47]
BingoBoingo The geographic area occupied by present day Collinsville, Illinois had a population of ~35,000 600 years ago, and has a similar population today. [05:52]
decimation BingoBoingo: the 'mound culture'? [05:52]
BingoBoingo decimation: Yes "Mississippians" Seems smallpox probably got to them before the pale faces did. [05:53]
BingoBoingo The view from the big pile of dirt into Missouri is pretty sweet. [05:55]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23994 @ 0.00056201 = 13.4849 BTC [-] {2} [05:59]
BingoBoingo They even seemed to have had their own skunkworks program where they might have been trying to get to bronze a few millenia too late https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mound_34 [05:59]
assbot Mound 34 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [05:59]
decimation I guess kansas was kansas before kansas [06:01]
BingoBoingo Well, no. Kansas had those fucking barbarian nomads with their dogs [06:02]
BingoBoingo Meanwhile the Mississippians had suburbs and shit, some suburbs more populated than they are presently https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerald_Mound_and_Village_Site [06:04]
assbot Emerald Mound and Village Site - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia [06:04]
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BingoBoingo !up Mrstickball [06:08]
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Vexual people on the river are happy to give [06:08]
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mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/ron-maimon-lubos-motl-and-other-internet-things-i-hear-of-today-for-the-very-first-time/#comment-109841 << a competitor emerges! [06:37]
assbot Ron Maimon, Luboš Motl and other Internet things I hear of today for the very first time pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [06:37]
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mircea_popescu actually midden is pretty much the best approximation of culture in physical terms. [06:39]
asciilifeform even the laziest student of archaeology knows this. [06:39]
mircea_popescu well so that's what, 300 people ? [06:41]
asciilifeform lol [06:41]
asciilifeform 300 mil sovblok. [06:41]
decimation speaking of obvous to everybody, here's some tardation for amusement: http://www.isegoria.net/2014/11/alternative-scientific-history/ [06:42]
assbot Alternative Scientific History « Isegoria [06:42]
mircea_popescu the feminist one is pretty good. [06:45]
decimation yeah surely these people are trolling [06:46]
mircea_popescu basically, dude imagines that a) he currently lives in a world where people actually give a shit what usians thing and b) this will survive time travel. [06:46]
decimation most of what is accepted as common knowledge in the us would have been rank retardation to the ancients [06:47]
decimation the romans would use lenses though [06:47]
mircea_popescu wait, caesar saves the republic ?! [06:48]
mircea_popescu lmao [06:48]
decimation lol yeah that too [06:48]
mircea_popescu "since the early 20th century, Earth’s mean surface temperature has increased by about 0.8°C." lmap [06:49]
mircea_popescu The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change indicated!!!! [06:49]
decimation as if anyone could state that with authority [06:49]
mircea_popescu srsly, this faux chosenpeopleism is hard to get out of huh [06:49]
decimation the us is soaked in it, and it is getting worse [06:50]
mircea_popescu basically "i am a worthless sack of dung. the proof of this is that if i got sent to any other circumstance i'd make a total fool of myself" [06:51]
mircea_popescu all these people whose survival strictly depends on a extreheheeemely unlikely arrangement imagine themselves like... you know, representatives of HUMANITY outright [06:52]
dub they represent the body of human science tho [06:53]
mircea_popescu hardly. [06:53]
decimation do they lack the ability to perceive the obvious or are they acting out despite themselves? [06:53]
mircea_popescu the body of human science isn't derp derping about "relativity" by name anymore than the body of bitcoin is derp derping about "bitcoin" by name. [06:53]
mircea_popescu there's nothing in a name. [06:53]
dub teh body of human science says global warming is a thing [06:53]
mircea_popescu decimation coelenterata. they just float around in the sea. not their fault some happened upon a vent, not their fault the vent will go out. [06:54]
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mircea_popescu you can't possibly be still on that kicks ?! [06:54]
dub its fact, idk what you deniers are smoking [06:54]
mircea_popescu the "body of human science" understood as "the government employees paid to derp on a topic" enacted "slow moving schizophrenia" as a thing. [06:54]
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dub its hilarious listening to it [06:55]
mircea_popescu and then they died by falling out of the strawberry tree. [06:55]
decimation I found a chocolate bush one day but it turned out to be rabbit turds [06:55]
undata decimation: how many bites in were you? [06:56]
mircea_popescu !b 2 [06:56]
assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2A4P8SA.txt ) [06:56]
mircea_popescu get a load of this... the qin envoy guy is using the example of a chinese table tennis player as highly achievementful women. [06:57]
mircea_popescu because the ancient chinese didn't know women can you know, tablestuffs. [06:57]
nubbins` do you even table [06:57]
decimation http://acrossdifficultcountry.blogspot.com/2014/11/no-word-back-yet.html [06:57]
assbot Across Difficult Country: No Word Back Yet [06:57]
mircea_popescu kinda unfair that he mentions oprah winfrey but not martha stewart lol. [06:58]
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decimation when I was in Maui I found Oprah's Maui mansion [07:00]
decimation it overlooks the statue erected to the memory of sun yet san [07:00]
mircea_popescu "Robin Williams' suicide was triggered by a horrible disease called Lewy Body Dementia ... sources connected with his family tell TMZ." [07:01]
mircea_popescu i fucking knew it. [07:01]
nubbins` http://imgur.com/gILlv24 [07:03]
assbot imgur: the simple image sharer [07:03]
nubbins` one color left [07:03]
mircea_popescu http://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/kim-kardashian-paper-cover.jpg << did this happen ? [07:04]
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undata mircea_popescu: http://www.papermag.com/2014/11/kim_kardashian.php seems like a thing [07:08]
mircea_popescu just my type o gal. [07:08]
asciilifeform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Came_Early [07:10]
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decimation asciilifeform: yeah he discusses that in the other post: http://www.isegoria.net/2010/12/ideas-behind-their-time/ [07:11]
decimation "By contrast, in Poul Anderson’s The Man Who Came Early, an American MP with an engineering degree finds that he can’t apply any of his high-tech knowledge in low-tech Viking Iceland. He destroys the blacksmith’s shop when he tries to use modern high-temperature methods, he suggests impractical ideas, like deep-keeled sailing ships, which you can’t pull ashore, and so on." [07:11]
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mircea_popescu takes a whole of a lot more than "i cursorily looked through my textbook on sciences" to meaningfully impact the past. [07:13]
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asciilifeform mircea_popescu: or present. [07:13]
mircea_popescu for one thing, you need to be conversant in their ideas. [07:13]
mircea_popescu right. [07:13]
mircea_popescu not different in any sense, but the past does offer the dubious benefit of unverifiability [07:13]
mircea_popescu which is exactly what all of dub's idiots masquerading as "human science" always pined for. [07:13]
mircea_popescu oh if only they could be spared the humiliation of failing in an irc chatroom, how great life'd be. [07:14]
asciilifeform the real psychiatric root here is that the idiots actually buy into the notion of the past being a 'kingdom of simpletons' [07:14]
mircea_popescu why wouldn't they ? [07:15]
asciilifeform a land of the blind, where the derp, with his magical enlightenment juice, is automagically one-eyed king. [07:15]
mircea_popescu they also buy into the theory of women, black people and so forth being a bunch of simpletons in need of special olympics [07:15]
mircea_popescu why not past people ? [07:15]
mircea_popescu and ukrainians ? [07:15]
mircea_popescu everyone's in dire need of democracy! [07:15]
asciilifeform the lie is implicit in the 'progress' idea [07:15]
mircea_popescu myeah. [07:16]
mircea_popescu how great it is tho, just think! to be the best person that ever was merely for having been born later ! [07:16]
mircea_popescu no wonder the conservative "you're not in the wot, noob" approach conflicts. [07:16]
decimation reminds one of "Candide" [07:17]
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decimation Voltaire attacks Leibniz for thinking too optimistically about human possibility, and then supports the elevation of the unwashed masses [07:19]
asciilifeform mr v did for liberasty what leibniz did for mathematics. [07:20]
mircea_popescu i dun see it. [07:22]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.000566 = 11.9143 BTC [+] [07:23]
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decimation mircea_popescu: as a student of french history, how do you think the revolution could have been reversed? [07:25]
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decimation my limited understanding is that much blame falls on Louis for being a dufus [07:25]
mircea_popescu uh. i dunno, but i suspect the revolution was a historical necessity. [07:25]
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mircea_popescu well yeah. and his successor a worse one. [07:26]
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decimation I suppose it was the ultimate outworking of enlightenment philosophy [07:27]
mircea_popescu here's a reduced version of the problem : england had a shitty king, that led to the empowering of a a bizarre sect. this is what happens when monarchy falters - secret societies. [07:28]
mircea_popescu the weakness of the crown allowed the personal union of the dutch and england, which created a shipping superpower [07:28]
mircea_popescu this ensured the failure of france as a going concern, because it couldn't keep up with the new megastate. [07:28]
mircea_popescu once france was going to fail, louis settled into a comfortable "apres moi, le deluge" and the people felt right about the same way germans felt around hitler's bunker. [07:29]
mircea_popescu they WERE going to try something. [07:29]
mircea_popescu the thing they tried was in all ways french : lots of fun, and it nearly got to moscow. [07:29]
mircea_popescu what more do you want ? [07:29]
asciilifeform !b 8 [07:29]
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decimation I suppose that's the result of the mob seizing power: awesome party, terrible hangover [07:30]
mircea_popescu d'oh. [07:30]
asciilifeform http://www.city-journal.org/html/10_2_urbanities-how_to_read.html << oldie [07:31]
mircea_popescu ;;google caragiale republica de la ploiesti [07:31]
gribble Republic of Ploiești - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Boborul - Wikisource: ; Please take your pills. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: [07:31]
cazalla ;;isitdown qntra.net [07:31]
gribble qntra.net is up [07:31]
mircea_popescu the guy that wrote the os romania still runs on, for almost two centuries now ? had a working model [07:31]
cazalla anyone else unable to access? [07:31]
decimation I cannot access [07:32]
decimation ;;isitdown trilema.com [07:32]
gribble trilema.com is up [07:32]
mircea_popescu odd. [07:32]
mircea_popescu i wonder how the heck this works. [07:33]
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decimation is our ddosing friend at it again? [07:33]
mircea_popescu i dun see him [07:33]
asciilifeform 'Astolphe de Custine was brought up for a time by a faithful servant, living in penury with her in the only room of the Custine home that had not been looted and sealed off by Jacobin zealots and thieves.' [07:33]
asciilifeform quoted for just this. someone asked 'how could they undo french revolution.' how do you undo a catabolic collapse? [07:34]
asciilifeform can you unburn a sofa? [07:34]
asciilifeform where do we get unlooters, to unplunder a palace? [07:34]
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mircea_popescu http://www.resilience.org/stories/2013-09-27/when-ephemeralization-is-hard-to-tell-from-catabolic-collapse << about the same topic [07:35]
mircea_popescu "Thanks to technological change, over the past few decades the capital-intensiveness of emerging successor infrastructures has been collapsing faster than the existing infrastructure itself. The classic example, from Buckminster Fuller, is replacing a transoceanic cable system emdodying God only knows how many thousand tons of metal with a few dozen communications satellites weighing a few tons each." [07:35]
mircea_popescu conveniently forgetting to mention that the cable is resilient, whereas the satellites not so much, and moreover, [07:35]
mircea_popescu even more conveniently forgetting to mention the 100x more tons of metal, fuel and whatnot needed to make satellites. [07:36]
decimation asciilifeform: I guess if the king isn't a derp, he turns grapeshot upon the mob [07:36]
mircea_popescu not like you can use any old mine dredger., [07:36]
mircea_popescu decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ? [07:36]
decimation right, the problem is that it's hopeless [07:36]
mircea_popescu so you get to still be king, people will refer to you as Roi Acier [07:37]
mircea_popescu and now ? [07:37]
asciilifeform king, as it was, sorta got off lightly - settled for mere beheading, no impalement, no boiling oil [07:37]
decimation I guess the simpler alternative is to take the mob and invade moscow with it [07:37]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform king died in his bed [07:37]
mircea_popescu among the tits of his concubine. [07:37]
* asciilifeform thinking of other one [07:37]
decimation his wife on the other hand.. [07:37]
mircea_popescu oh, the blacksmith ? [07:38]
mircea_popescu what king. [07:38]
asciilifeform lol [07:38]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, unplunders there are. called craftsmen and artisans. [07:39]
mircea_popescu palaces can and have been unplundered. [07:39]
asciilifeform takes a while. [07:39]
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decimation re: satellites << plus they occupy electromagnetic spectrum that could be put to otherwise productive use [07:41]
asciilifeform decimation: occupy spectrum << mostly line-of-sight, what occupy [07:41]
decimation lol line of sight: http://www.lyngsat-maps.com/footprints/Galaxy-19-C.html [07:42]
decimation true, not the entire earth all at once [07:42]
asciilifeform decimation: line of sight. what don't you like about the picture ? [07:42]
decimation well, the point isn't really the interfering signal from the satellite as much as the fact that no one on the ground can use the same frequencies without potentially interfering with satellite receivers [07:43]
asciilifeform decimation: if this were true, anyone could take a 'predator' bomber home. [07:44]
asciilifeform pocket 'gps' receivers - yes, easily fooled [07:45]
decimation asciilifeform: who knows how the us military hardens their links against interference [07:45]
asciilifeform generally, by using a very directional horn. [07:45]
asciilifeform and by flying. [07:46]
decimation but I am assuming a world where e-m spectrum could be otherwise be allocated to other-than-friends-of-the-bezzle [07:46]
asciilifeform in post-bezzle radio, 'adaptive frequency hopping' or bust. [07:47]
decimation asciilifeform: I think you might be unimpressed with the reality of usg rpvs: http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2013/May/Pages/PentagonEyesDealsWithSatelliteIndustryToFillDemandforDroneCommunications.aspx [07:48]
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asciilifeform (one of the things which they did not - until, apparently, very recently - do - is use signed commands. hence one could in fact take the machine home, if using an appropriate antenna.) [07:52]
decimation asciilifeform: here's another one: http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/uavs-drive-satcom-modernization/ "The reality, however, is the role of the lion’s share of UAVs is to provide data to soldiers within 50 miles of the aircraft using line-of-sight air-to-ground links,” Gardner wrote. “Today these links are predominantly analog FM links for standard definition video, but a change to sophisticated digital links is under [07:56]
decimation way, driven by a range of factors."" [07:56]
asciilifeform way to lump the bulldog and the rhinoceros into one animal. [07:57]
asciilifeform flying camera - one thing. remotely-flown bomber - another. [07:57]
asciilifeform incidentally, people misunderstand why the bomber is costly [07:58]
asciilifeform it is precisely because of the control apparatus. [07:58]
asciilifeform rather than the bombs [07:58]
asciilifeform hence also its weight, and the resulting expense of the airframe, engines, fuel. [07:58]
decimation asciilifeform: yeah I was confusing the two, I admit [07:58]
decimation the article is fairly silent w.r.t. the details of control links [07:58]
asciilifeform if a usefully-directional satellite receiver and associated gizmos could fit in pocket, camel convoys would be attacked using winged grenades on toy airplanes [07:59]
asciilifeform and even the simultaneously dumbest and wealthiest military bureaucracy in the world, would see this as an obvious thing. [07:59]
decimation this article was published in 2010 also [08:00]
mircea_popescu dude look at that, you can't find a pic of John McCain online that's not from like 1979 [08:00]
asciilifeform !s gyro mcquack [08:00]
assbot 0 results for 'gyro mcquack' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=gyro+mcquack [08:00]
asciilifeform !s launchpad mcquack [08:00]
assbot 1 results for 'launchpad mcquack' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=launchpad+mcquack [08:00]
asciilifeform there. [08:00]
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decimation ;;google uss forrestal mccain [08:01]
gribble 1967 USS Forrestal fire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Investigating John McCain's Tragedy at Sea - Truthdig: ; Rocket causes deadly fire on aircraft carrier — History.com This Day ...: [08:01]
BingoBoingo Ah, the references to Disney [08:02]
BingoBoingo 's Duck Period date Herr asciilifeform's arrival in Usia [08:02]
asciilifeform pre-date [08:02]
asciilifeform saw it in translation. [08:02]
BingoBoingo Ah [08:05]
asciilifeform http://i1.wp.com/www.defensemedianetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/321.jpg << from linked article. the answer to 'how directional.' [08:05]
BingoBoingo So marginally more directional than a satellite TV reciever. [08:06]
decimation asciilifeform: sure, the plane's dish is directional - my original point is that the satellite's might not be [08:06]
decimation especially if it is a 'commercial' satellite [08:07]
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BingoBoingo http://amblesideanimalhospital.com/blog/moose-by-products-dr-google-january/ << "The People" [08:12]
assbot Dr. Google & Moose by-products | Ambleside Animal Hospital [08:12]
mats_cd03 good log today mates [08:15]
asciilifeform !up Vexual [08:16]
* assbot gives voice to Vexual [08:16]
Vexual i forgot, everythings on lyngsat [08:18]
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BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all [08:19]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8737 @ 0.00056765 = 4.9596 BTC [+] [08:19]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 450.0, vol: 46736.22148626 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 447.14, vol: 28104.18399 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 457.29, vol: 132122.08627802 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 476.579904, vol: 454541.40410000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 435.18045, vol: 230.55639073 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 435.575, vol: 362.97455385 | Volume-weighted last average: 469.567824543 [08:19]
BingoBoingo The Chinese... enthusiastic [08:20]
mircea_popescu o noes, such wow, what now. [08:21]
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BingoBoingo Well, new meme clogging Derpistan seems to be "Forget the moon, we caught a comet" [08:24]
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Vexual also gentlemen, which seens to be some olf cat picture from bitcointalk by way of reddit [08:25]
mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/askfm-laid-bare-or-whats-half-a-million-uniques-to-you/ [08:28]
assbot Ask.fm laid bare, or what’s half a million uniques to you ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [08:28]
mircea_popescu since no scoopsybot. [08:28]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 10000 @ 0.0012 = 12 BTC [08:29]
Vexual orb reports it's stright outta london [08:31]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48130 @ 0.00056205 = 27.0515 BTC [-] [08:32]
Vexual dat meme, not ask fm [08:32]
BingoBoingo ;;google straight out of compton [08:33]
gribble Straight Outta Compton - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; Straight Outta Compton (2015) - IMDb: ; NWA - Straight Outta Compton (1988) on Vimeo: [08:33]
Vexual ;;google straight outta locash [08:33]
gribble CB4-Straight outta Locash - YouTube: ; CB4 (1993) Straight Outta Locash - YouTube: ; CB4 Straight Outta Locash (Video Edit) by Bob Garcia - YouTube: [08:33]
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BingoBoingo Vexual: When are you starting a blog that blogs other blogs rinsed through MP's Google Translate Vexualator? [08:34]
Vexual tsin da werks [08:34]
mircea_popescu lol [08:36]
mircea_popescu not a bnad idea, that. [08:36]
Vexual lol [08:36]
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BingoBoingo FU FEDS!!!!! http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/how-prepaid-cards-work-and-why-feds-are-watching/article_fec9064d-25d2-5642-87d1-0a133ca3b629.html [08:38]
assbot How prepaid cards work and why Feds are watching : News [08:38]
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mircea_popescu !up bitcoin-market09 [08:43]
-assbot- You voiced bitcoin-market09 for 30 minutes. [08:43]
* assbot gives voice to bitcoin-market09 [08:43]
mircea_popescu http://cdn.papermag.com/uploaded_images/KKface(rgb)watermark.jpg << yeah srsly, thanks undata [08:43]
mircea_popescu easily the best looking chick alive. [08:44]
mircea_popescu http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/Thomaston-Man-Arrested-After-Stabbing-Watermelon-Cops-267183461.html [08:46]
assbot Thomaston Man Arrested After Stabbing Watermelon: Cops | NBC Connecticut [08:46]
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Vexual theres a song about who fucker her first [08:46]
mircea_popescu to think, not even 200 years ago the same woman could be put in stocks if the husband told police she stabbed the same watermelon in a slothful or wanton manner. [08:46]
* assbot removes voice from Vexual [08:47]
* assbot gives voice to punkman [08:50]
punkman "Glee actress Naya Rivera allegedly commented on Kardashian’s Instagram, “I normally don’t… but you’re someone’s mother.”" [08:50]
punkman I think she looks better now than before she had a kid [08:51]
mircea_popescu she looks her best for sure. [08:51]
mircea_popescu armenian chicks. no fucking wonder the turks had an in for 'em. [08:51]
BingoBoingo Sabines 2.0 [08:52]
punkman did you see the original champagne photo, https://31.media.tumblr.com/decad7a5fb9715c1508942f7e12209f8/tumblr_newq2vmrOB1r106o0o1_500.jpg [08:52]
punkman same photographer [08:52]
mircea_popescu anyway, she's doing all the stuff jolie thought herself too good for. [08:52]
mircea_popescu in a decade, kim will be remembered and who was brangelina again ? [08:53]
mircea_popescu i hadn't. but the original sucks by comparison. [08:53]
mircea_popescu how does he get the bubbly flow btw ? what's the hydrodynamics experts think ? [08:54]
punkman trying to imagine how many bottles of champagne he's wasted trying [08:54]
mircea_popescu no way that's a chance event. [08:55]
punkman yeah photographer guy probably has it figured out by now [08:56]
mircea_popescu besides, im sure you can sell "champagne that was spilled on kim kardashian as part of trying to get the booty shot" fgor more trhan it cost originally. [08:56]
mircea_popescu As of May 2014, Kardashian is estimated to be worth $45 million. [08:57]
mircea_popescu dude that sucks. the watsapp faggots are worth 20bn and this chick 40mn ? get outta town. [08:57]
punkman does she have a clothing label yet? [08:58]
punkman though ass champagne might be a good business [08:58]
mircea_popescu she has 500 shitty perfumes, diets, underwears the works [08:58]
mircea_popescu they should prolly get her to front paleo [08:59]
mircea_popescu i think she's exactly the sort of woman the paleo guy jacks off to. [08:59]
punkman http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/11/12/china_us_climate_deal_enthusiasm_gap [09:03]
assbot Why Is Beijing Downplaying the Supposedly Huge Climate Change Deal? [09:03]
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mircea_popescu chinese bureaucrats got dumped a spoiled western brat. [09:04]
mircea_popescu they were polite, and thankfully now he left. [09:05]
punkman http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/11/10/putin_hits_on_china__first_lady_apec_censors_go_wild [09:05]
assbot Putin Hits on China's First Lady, Censors Go Wild [09:05]
mircea_popescu lol nowai [09:05]
mircea_popescu well she looks like she's enjoying it... [09:06]
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* Now talking on #bitcoin-assets [15:36]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets is: http://bitcoin-assets.com || http://log.bitcoin-assets.com || http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com || http://blogs.bitcoin-assets.com [15:36]
* Topic for #bitcoin-assets set by kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla at Wed Mar 5 21:58:12 2014 [15:36]
-assbot- Welcome to #bitcoin-assets. To get voice (ie, to be able to speak), first identify with gribble and then send "!up" to assbot in a private message. If you do not have a WoT account, try politely asking one of the voiced people for a temporary pass. [15:36]
Adlai http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-11-2014#915632 [15:36]
assbot Logged on 09-11-2014 09:54:46; Adlai: ben_vulpes: i'm not seeing it in the mailing list yet, and i have to leave. hope this cuts it: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pCFcsbrW [15:36]
* assbot gives voice to mircea_popescu [15:37]
mircea_popescu jurov web form is a good idea i'd say. [15:39]
mircea_popescu all it takes is five lines of html [15:39]
jurov lol [15:40]
jurov if you meant a form with action="mailto:btc-dev@..." that wouldn't help anything [15:41]
mircea_popescu lol well no [15:42]
mircea_popescu but presumably the email goes into a script somewhere no ? [15:42]
jurov yes, it needs to be wired yo that script [15:42]
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mircea_popescu whoa look at that, under 50! [15:43]
mircea_popescu !t m s.mpoe [15:43]
assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00036402 / 0.00061882 / 0.00064749 (1568022 shares, 970.33 BTC), 7D: 0.00036402 / 0.00062249 / 0.0007299 (5046550 shares, 3,141.44 BTC), 30D: 0.00036402 / 0.00072098 / 0.00081111 (22294004 shares, 16,073.74 BTC) [15:43]
jurov and mailman expects some headers to be present such as date, message id and whatnot [15:43]
mircea_popescu $SERVER or w/e php used [15:44]
jurov lol it's in py [15:45]
jurov and if it would be 5 lines, someone'd already done it [15:45]
nubbins` punkman let's put a section on the deeds website for deed verification utils [15:45]
nubbins` get a standard figured out and implement it in a few different languages [15:46]
mircea_popescu this is also not a bad idea [15:46]
* punkman is furiously trying to undelete output of 12hour processing job [15:47]
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Adlai mircea_popescu: under 50 what? [15:47]
nubbins` !s deed utils [15:47]
assbot 3 results for 'deed utils' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=deed+utils [15:47]
mircea_popescu Adlai mpoe. [15:48]
mircea_popescu 50k satoshi. [15:48]
Adlai oh [15:48]
nubbins` mine's in node.js, could use some cleaning up. punkman's is in... py? [15:48]
mircea_popescu punkman they dun have backups where you live ? [15:48]
punkman mircea_popescu: was first run, fat-fingered some sql [15:49]
mircea_popescu now that sucks. [15:49]
nubbins` ^ [15:50]
mircea_popescu the other response of course is, "yeah, i have self-replicating backups, i just watched the deletion propagate across the whole cluster." [15:50]
punkman heh [15:50]
mircea_popescu "it works fine" [15:50]
mircea_popescu anyway, maybe the soution to jurov's problems is merging with the deed system ? [15:51]
mircea_popescu just process updates that are deedified ? [15:51]
punkman I can implement detached sigs and binary deeds [15:52]
mircea_popescu no, you can't. that's the fucking idea. [15:52]
mircea_popescu no binary patches, no detached patches. [15:52]
mircea_popescu can a project live liek that ? [15:52]
jurov punkman or, since you have the form put, once verified you can just send email in [15:52]
jurov lol but he doesn't have the form either..just uses pastebin, no? [15:53]
mircea_popescu jurov yup. [15:53]
mircea_popescu cuz of the bot. [15:53]
jurov punkman, you can send the deeds anyway, we can have dedicated mailing list for them [15:54]
punkman max deed size is 32kb now [15:54]
thestringpuller ;;google site:trilema.com markov chains conversation [15:55]
gribble Come see me clutching at straws pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: [15:55]
jurov no i'll have to actually do it, i am not in such a pit as stan and can push jobs around [15:55]
mircea_popescu jurov get the deeds firehose, process them into a mailing list by criteria ? this is interesting. [15:55]
mircea_popescu ianac, but can a project survive on 32kb text only patches ? [15:56]
jurov dunno . guess anyone who wants will subscribe and filter themselves [15:56]
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jurov nooo, i dont' want to shove it through deedbot [15:56]
mircea_popescu aok [15:56]
punkman yeah you can send them compressed too, so I suppose you could send quite big patches as it is [15:56]
jurov that means sumbitting zipfiles ad seeds? [15:57]
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mircea_popescu punkman this dovetails with asciilifeform's "fit in head" ideas. [15:57]
jurov *as deeds [15:57]
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jurov do you really wants to mess aith such? doing html form is easier [15:57]
mircea_popescu ^ [15:57]
mircea_popescu agreed. [15:58]
mircea_popescu jurov mostly exploring teh possibilities i think. some of which make one recoil in horror. [15:58]
jurov on that note, if asciilifeform still did not get the emails, i'm gonna send him the diests by snail mail [15:59]
jurov *digests [15:59]
mircea_popescu lol [15:59]
jurov * punkman is furiously trying to undelete << lol and i have multi-day multi-machine job that invokes OOM killer every coupla hours. i can live with it. [16:00]
Adlai ... why are we still talking about how to manage a project through patches-by-mail? [16:01]
mircea_popescu Adlai because we're upset with the system. [16:01]
Adlai if you're married to patches, at least use darcs [16:01]
jurov Adlai because the goal is transparent verification of all contributions [16:01]
jurov if you can explain ti asciilifeform how to use dracs tho achieve this [16:02]
punkman maybe a gpg plugin for gitorious or gitlab [16:02]
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jurov so? punkman, make that plugin. just some 5 lines, no? [16:03]
punkman probably [16:03]
mircea_popescu punkman one that isn't retarded pretty much reduces to "reimplement pgp" task we're loath to start. [16:03]
mircea_popescu jurov you snarky boy! [16:04]
jurov in short a system where it can be proven beyond doubt and without third-party service "X posted it, Y,Z signed it, A made a release" [16:04]
Adlai btw, this is quite relevant and maybe even a better starting point than 0.5.3: https://github.com/jgarzik/picocoin/tree/master/include/ccoin [16:04]
assbot picocoin/include/ccoin at master · jgarzik/picocoin · GitHub [16:04]
Adlai libccoin is a valgrind clean bitcoin node, written in C [16:04]
mircea_popescu Adlai how do you figure ? [16:04]
mircea_popescu i think you might be confused as to what's happening here. [16:05]
Adlai mircea_popescu: how do i figure using darcs superior to patches-by-mail, or working off libccoin superior to working off 0.5.3? [16:05]
punkman speaking of reimplementing things: https://github.com/singpolyma/OpenPGP-Python << a python port of a php implementation of openpgp standard [16:05]
mircea_popescu the idea is not an alternative, non braindamaged bitcoin reimplementation. the idea is confiscating the canonical bitcoin implementation from the current set of monkeys. [16:05]
assbot singpolyma/OpenPGP-Python · GitHub [16:05]
* assbot removes voice from devthedev [16:05]
mircea_popescu quite distinct, these. [16:05]
Adlai either goal can be accomplished from either starting point [16:05]
mircea_popescu you're not in a position to make that judgement. [16:06]
jurov Adlai how do you do with darcs the "beyond doubt" stuff ? [16:06]
jurov ls explain [16:06]
jurov pls [16:06]
Adlai mircea_popescu: i make no judgements, just throwing out ideas [16:06]
mircea_popescu either goal can be accomplished from either starting point << that is a judgement. [16:06]
Adlai lolok [16:06]
jurov throwin out is easy. im asking you to throw in how darcs fullfills it [16:07]
mircea_popescu anyway, i have nfi about coding workflow from the pov of the workflower, however, darcs seems that much math grad wankathon. [16:07]
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Adlai i'll shut up and shower because evidently i've been too far outside the loop to have meaningful input to these high and mighty goingons [16:07]
mircea_popescu no, rather, YOU are too high and mighty to have meaningful input. [16:08]
jurov you don't have meaningfuil answer to my qs? [16:08]
mircea_popescu i get it, "patches by mail" = bad because that's how they did it before women were liberated or some shit. nevertheless. how is the spiffy work for our purpose ? [16:08]
Adlai darcs is more organized than patches-over-mail, i've not used it enough to know whether it has any builtin support for patch signing [16:08]
mircea_popescu well this exposes the problem eh. [16:08]
Adlai however darcs is just a slight layer over patches [16:08]
mircea_popescu no but look at the process! you heard about something, thought it was cool and now want to use it on that basis ? [16:09]
mircea_popescu this is not how anything is supposed to fucking work. [16:09]
Adlai i'll just drop a nice photo here and go shower [16:09]
mats_cd03 lol. [16:09]
jurov look, when we'll have 100 patches then we can talk how to get "better organized" [16:09]
mircea_popescu if this turns into another "you're mean and a cult because systemd" thing i swear... [16:10]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80900 @ 0.00046419 = 37.553 BTC [+] {2} [16:11]
* Adlai said no such thing [16:11]
thestringpuller MPOE being shorted has increased volume 2 fold. [16:11]
* mircea_popescu only now sees punkman link. jesus. does that even hash ? [16:12]
Adlai just, that i'm not in a mental state to conduct any sort of serious discussion right now [16:12]
mircea_popescu Adlai dun sweat it. [16:12]
Adlai if only this imgur thingy would get its shit together [16:12]
Adlai https://i.imgur.com/hzTWHwt.jpg [16:13]
mircea_popescu use instagram, it's what the best butt online uses! [16:13]
thestringpuller kim kardashian's but isn't real [16:13]
thestringpuller butt* [16:13]
punkman Adlai: are you coding in the trenches now? [16:13]
mircea_popescu lol is that a tank being decomissioned ? [16:13]
Adlai no, i spent my time in the trenches edumacatin the trenchgoers about bitcoin [16:13]
mircea_popescu thestringpuller how do you mean it's not real yo. [16:13]
Adlai they were actually quite fascinated by it, and a surprising number had never ever heard of it [16:14]
mircea_popescu i mean pretty fucking unreal, i grant. yet... [16:14]
mircea_popescu Adlai wait what trenches ? [16:14]
Adlai metaphorical ones [16:15]
Adlai but the metaphor isn't too far from reality [16:15]
* Adlai just got back from a week in reserve dooty as a signals technician in an artillery thingy [16:16]
Adlai whence the photo [16:16]
Adlai shower time! [16:16]
jurov ha, military. now i see where the "musta organize" comes from ;) [16:17]
mircea_popescu militarize all teh thangs! [16:17]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25327 @ 0.00046234 = 11.7097 BTC [-] [16:18]
Adlai well there's a big difference between military hierarchy and structured decentralization, but have your laffs while i have my baffs [16:18]
Adlai and for the record, i got kicked out of officer school for being "unfit for military command", so i'm not exactly the most militarized person... [16:20]
mircea_popescu actually afaik the us army has been trying to do away with 1800s french military style hierarchy in favour of something more akin to the latter. [16:20]
Adlai maybe they can start with not having mercenaries salute 20yo shitstains fresh out of west poopt [16:20]
mircea_popescu if they do that, they'll have to actually pay idiots to go to west point [16:21]
mircea_popescu rather than charge them. [16:21]
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assbot Bagels7 +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0 [16:31]
Adlai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8 [16:31]
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assbot Mars Attacks Why Can't We All Just Get Along YouTube - YouTube [16:31]
mircea_popescu !up bagels7 [16:32]
-assbot- You voiced bagels7 for 30 minutes. [16:32]
* assbot gives voice to bagels7 [16:32]
bagels7 Oh hey, I was just wondering how it would be nice to not hear about kim's ass once in a while, perhaps a whole day even [16:33]
Adlai last time i heard irl about kim was actually back in my mandatory service [16:34]
Adlai (now i have to differentiate between stories from mandatory and reserve... wonderful) [16:34]
mircea_popescu bagels7 you'd be wondering how it'd be nice ? [16:34]
mircea_popescu Adlai you don't actually have to... [16:34]
Adlai some guy was talking about her instagram account and he said that she uploads pictures of her dog, and her furniture, and whatnot [16:35]
bagels7 yeah to not see a huge ass first thing in the morning [16:35]
Adlai and he was genuinely trying to convince people that he doesn't follow her just because of dat ass [16:35]
mircea_popescu bagels7 don't take this the wrong way, because it's not actually going where it may seem, butt : are you a girl ? [16:35]
Adlai mircea_popescu: this is true [16:35]
bagels7 oh you saw dpb's comment or twitter I'll guess [16:36]
mircea_popescu actually no, i dun read twitter. but i just added you know, two an' two together. [16:36]
Adlai ugh this week resurrected my mysoginism [16:36]
bagels7 oh yes im so girly im ashamed [16:36]
thestringpuller !b 1 [16:37]
assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2EGRBYF.txt ) [16:37]
mircea_popescu anyway : boys like highly sexed girls. it's a thing. it doesn't actually say anything about you. [16:37]
bagels7 do you like highly sexed [16:37]
Adlai there is nothing girly about not liking ass, girls are allowed to like manass [16:37]
mircea_popescu yes. [16:37]
mircea_popescu Adlai girls don't tend to like highly sexed girls because they're disruptive. [16:37]
Adlai what's disruptive about the "oldest profession"? [16:38]
bagels7 Oh well I am an escort so I kind of have to shave my legs and do make up and all that [16:38]
Adlai (this is a false cliche btw... the oldest profession, imo, is "boss") [16:38]
mircea_popescu Adlai exactly that. [16:38]
mircea_popescu bagels7 oh you are ? where do you work ? [16:38]
mircea_popescu Adlai and boss is not a profession. [16:39]
bagels7 Montreal, quebec, canada [16:39]
mircea_popescu ;;rate bagels7 1 says she's an escort in montreal. if you ever visit, lemme know how it went. [16:39]
gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user bagels7 has been recorded. [16:39]
Adlai on that note, i'm gonna wash the smell of diesel sweat and boot polish out of my hair [16:40]
mircea_popescu you're just going to jack off [16:40]
Adlai "just" [16:40]
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danielpbarron ;;rated bagels7 [16:42]
gribble You rated user bagels7 on Tue Nov 11 06:40:19 2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: boy who pretends to be a girl; http://twitter.com/SakuraSoph. [16:42]
mircea_popescu danielpbarron dja see teh weewee in question ? [16:42]
bagels7 nope ^ [16:42]
mircea_popescu bagels7 you got a page up somewhere or how does the escort business even work these days ? dja advertise ? [16:44]
bagels7 someone does it for me [16:44]
xanthyos danielpbarron: is it your job to out people? [16:44]
* danielpbarron shrugs [16:44]
bagels7 They do newspapers which are getting more and more expensive since all the cheap advertising ones get bought, and there is a website somewhere [16:45]
mircea_popescu yeah i heard this is the latest business model, "make cheap advertising paper to drive up numbers, wait for buyout offers". apparently it can be cycled in 2-3 years. [16:45]
mircea_popescu some people that used to do "refurbishing" places back in the bubble moved on to this. [16:46]
mircea_popescu xanthyos everyone's job is to out people! [16:46]
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xanthyos it's unrelated to trust though, and the insinuation of "boy pretends to be girl" is that bagels7 is dishonest [16:50]
* assbot gives voice to Duffer1 [16:50]
xanthyos also historically once the transgender cat is out of the bag that's all everyone wants to talk about [16:50]
danielpbarron dishonest with himself [16:50]
xanthyos i'm still so jittery from last night [16:51]
mircea_popescu well, at least we moved on from kim's butt. [16:51]
xanthyos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kWaKhrpa28 [16:52]
assbot Real Time with Bill Maher: Generation Ass (HBO) - YouTube [16:52]
bagels7 What do you expect from this WoT, Is fraud a concern [16:53]
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xanthyos ooh btc fell back slightly. brb gonna call bank see if those coinbase deposits went in [16:56]
xanthyos i really really really hope that some sort of bad thing doesn't happen now that my checking account is tied to this... [16:57]
* xanthyos words not have smooth talk [16:57]
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xanthyos brain damage need christ [16:57]
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xanthyos i need danielpbarron to talk for me like aaron spoke for moses [16:57]
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thestringpuller coinbase is already reporting you. [16:58]
thestringpuller just link to account you don't care gets seized. [16:58]
xanthyos so if i buy off coinbase should i not send to my existing wallet which right now is totally anon [16:59]
thestringpuller Intermediary addresses is good practice for plausible deniability. [17:01]
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xanthyos is it a crime to buy bitcoin? [17:01]
xanthyos or sell [17:01]
thestringpuller !s from:asciilifeform benjies otc [17:01]
assbot 1 results for 'from:asciilifeform benjies otc' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+benjies+otc [17:01]
xanthyos i don't feel i should hvae to deny anything [17:02]
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xanthyos if a bank calls me up suspicously i will turn it on them. how dare you bother a long standing customer! [17:02]
xanthyos i'm allowed to fluctuate my balance as much as i want [17:02]
thestringpuller all while they are being raped with USG cock in their mouth [17:03]
xanthyos the fact that it's taking 2+ days for me to even see these mcirodeposits speaks to the obsolescence of banks [17:03]
xanthyos btc went up 60/ea since [17:03]
* assbot removes voice from bagels7 [17:03]
xanthyos !up bagels7 [17:03]
* assbot gives voice to bagels7 [17:03]
thestringpuller i'm probably going to revert to cash only OTC. at least I know there is some resistance to my coincs going into Buterin's Waterfall. [17:04]
danielpbarron i made that switch a while ago [17:05]
thestringpuller regulators gonna regulate like warren g and nate d to the double g [17:05]
assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH2] 900 @ 0.0012 = 1.08 BTC [17:05]
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TomServo What do you guys figure is a reasonable markup for cash trades? [17:06]
thestringpuller danielpbarron: how difficult is it to set up "deals"? [17:06]
danielpbarron kinda hard to find them; not so hard to do them [17:06]
mircea_popescu What do you expect from this WoT, Is fraud a concern << that didn't parse. say wut ? [17:06]
danielpbarron more work than coinbase obviously [17:06]
thestringpuller coinbase is a lot of work. I have to keep my accounts separate and can't have money fluctuate too high or low without suspcicious phone calls. [17:07]
danielpbarron usually have to pay higher fees too [17:07]
mircea_popescu if a bank calls me up suspicously i will turn it on them. how dare you bother a long standing customer! << lmao this works, yeah. [17:07]
mircea_popescu figure it out, the only customer of the bank is the govt. [17:07]
mircea_popescu you're just getting in the way. [17:07]
mircea_popescu ;;later tell scoopbot http://trilema.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/ [17:08]
gribble The operation succeeded. [17:08]
assbot Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [17:08]
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xanthyos woop 24 cents and 10 cents microdeposits went thru, activating coinbase [17:16]
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xanthyos no more buying btc through stander [17:16]
xanthyos stander is the guy that danielpbarron and RetroUpriser and i have bought btc through for a while [17:17]
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mircea_popescu !up eightyeight [17:20]
-assbot- You voiced eightyeight for 30 minutes. [17:20]
* assbot gives voice to eightyeight [17:20]
xanthyos Amount Received [17:21]
xanthyos 0.002637 BTC [17:21]
xanthyos From Avatar Coinbase [17:21]
mircea_popescu what's even the point of buying fractions of bitcents ? [17:21]
xanthyos it was free for signing up [17:22]
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xanthyos now i see it takes 4 days for them to send btc [17:22]
xanthyos twice as long as a bank [17:23]
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mircea_popescu ah [17:23]
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bagels7 <+mircea_popescu>I'm so poor I can't afford your articles yet [17:25]
mircea_popescu lol gotta work more. [17:25]
xanthyos mircea_popescu: is 440 a good buy price now? [17:26]
bagels7 Well where could I work without a degree? [17:27]
xanthyos here! [17:27]
mircea_popescu xanthyos the only thing i've said bout price is http://trilema.com/2014/people-us-dollars-are-not-worth-a-fifth-of-a-bitcent-stop-selling/ [17:27]
assbot People! US Dollars are not worth a fifth of a Bitcent. STOP SELLING! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. [17:27]
bagels7 I've been abused in every single job I had except my latest [17:28]
xanthyos use the wot to set up your own network of unabusive clientele [17:29]
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xanthyos wow coinbase is WAY cheaper than stander [17:36]
xanthyos i bought .2! [17:36]
xanthyos i'm a real man now [17:36]
xanthyos bagels7: did you bust out on seals yet? [17:37]
TomServo bagels7: /msg assbot !up [17:39]
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xanthyos ;;gettrust bagels7 [17:39]
gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask bagels7!bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca. Trust relationship from user xanthyos to user bagels7: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 2 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xanthyos&dest=bagels7 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bagels7 | Rated since: Tue Nov 11 00:46:41 2014 [17:39]
mircea_popescu punkman: big tits, more money << i can see it. [17:39]
mircea_popescu !up cryptomaniac [17:39]
-assbot- You voiced cryptomaniac for 30 minutes. [17:39]
* assbot gives voice to cryptomaniac [17:39]
xanthyos why is bagels7 being devoiced with l2 assbot? [17:39]
mircea_popescu she never voiced herself. [17:39]
mircea_popescu ;;ident bagels7 [17:40]
gribble Nick 'bagels7', with hostmask 'bagels7!bagels7@modemcable232.144-161-184.mc.videotron.ca', is identified as user 'Bagels7', with GPG key id 82C85EDC160BB29F, key fingerprint ACE4936BDD6EBB8338F5282E82C85EDC160BB29F, and bitcoin address 16SvyfnNumVGr8qp1xRgupKpdEjWtAC5rN [17:40]
mircea_popescu just pm assbot !up yo. [17:40]
xanthyos nice pronoun mp [17:40]
mircea_popescu hm ? [17:40]
xanthyos she [17:40]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44963 @ 0.00046111 = 20.7329 BTC [-] {2} [17:41]
* assbot gives voice to bagels7 [17:41]
xanthyos ooh [17:41]
mircea_popescu "Besides the possible reasons for the trend— namely that younger women with less purchasing power may be the ones buying smaller-sized bras" [17:42]
mircea_popescu aaaahahahaha [17:42]
mircea_popescu yeah, totally, young women have less purchasing power than older women. [17:42]
mircea_popescu because this is imaginaryworld. [17:42]
mircea_popescu Singles Day—the annual Nov 11 online shopping frenzy in which Alibaba saw as many as 2.85 million transactions a minute at its peak, and a total of $9.3 billion in sales [17:43]
xanthyos so children with underdeveloped breasts now shop for themselves? [17:43]
xanthyos their big-titted mothers still provide their adolescents bras right? [17:43]
mircea_popescu ;;calc 9300 / (60 * 24 * 2.85 / 2) [17:43]
gribble 4.53216374269 [17:43]
mircea_popescu o look, average sale five bux. [17:43]
bagels7 no, women with large breasts make more money causing poor women to mainly be small tit owners [17:43]
mircea_popescu xanthyos monkeys don't have any tits to speak of. the female breast is clearly the result of selection. the only way that works is for women with tits to have money while women without not to. [17:44]
xanthyos is it selection by males or did women with larger breasts simply have more milk to feed their young? [17:45]
xanthyos and provided more viable offspring [17:46]
mike_c or is it a broad generalization with little practical application? [17:46]
mircea_popescu nfi. i imagine it's purely aesthetic. [17:46]
mircea_popescu mike_c you mean like math, right ? [17:46]
mike_c absolutely [17:46]
xanthyos it's a counterweight to the ass [17:46]
xanthyos so women don't fall back [17:46]
bagels7 yes broad generalizations with very little practical use [17:47]
mike_c you know what i like about math? i recently had a difficult math problem to solve, and didn't feel like dealing with it. so i had a math TA do it for total cost of 0. [17:47]
mircea_popescu mike_c same is true of women with big tits! [17:47]
mircea_popescu if you don't feel like doing it, you can always ask a ta. [17:47]
mircea_popescu turns out there's a lot of predictive power in this tits like math thing. [17:48]
xanthyos i sent to my bc.i from coinbase. i am no longer anonymous. [17:48]
mike_c hm, this deserves more study. with pictures. [17:48]
mircea_popescu mike_c i predict golf club patterns! [17:48]
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mircea_popescu jurov: gpg: BAD signature from "Adlai Chandrasekhar <<< wait his real name is actually adlai ?! [17:49]
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mircea_popescu that's a pretty rad name. [17:49]
xanthyos adlai atkins [17:50]
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mircea_popescu http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Operations/Live_updates_Rosetta_mission_comet_landing << it did it! [17:54]
assbot Live updates: Rosetta mission comet landing / Operations / Our Activities / ESA [17:54]
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chetty http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/11/12/Father-Asks-Obama-To-Bring-Son-Slain-By-Illegal-Alien-Back-To-Life-With-Executive-Order [18:19]
assbot Father Asks Obama to Use Executive Order to Bring Son Slain by Illegal Alien Back to Life [18:19]
TomServo o_O [18:20]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00045949 = 6.8464 BTC [-] [18:27]
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asciilifeform Adlai: darcs << as a military man, perhaps you are familiar with systems that could be automated easily, but aren't? e.g., ru nuke sub controls [18:40]
asciilifeform Adlai: manual patching is a deliberate choice here. each patch is a document that those who sign it are expected to actually read -and- understand. [18:44]
Adlai in my experience, all systems can be automated, and it's only a matter of deciding at what level you're willing to lose a human's judgement/"moral compass", but gain the benefits of automation [18:45]
asciilifeform Adlai: once you understand why i suggested it, and why those who agreed - agreed - you will learn something interesting. [18:45]
asciilifeform Adlai: i like 'git', 'darcs', etc. automata just as much as the next lazy fellow. but they are wholly inappropriate for this application. try to see why. [18:45]
punkman http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2014/11/11/cloud_heat_is_putting_servers_in_homes_and_offices_and_the_heat_from_them.html [18:47]
assbot Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free. [18:47]
Adlai i'll admit that my feeling that darcs could be appropriate for this purpose is based more on speculation from darcs's theoretic background than on familiarity with the actual working software [18:49]
asciilifeform punkman: germany has same electric rates for residential and commercial lines ? [18:50]
asciilifeform punkman: seems unlikely [18:50]
punkman no idea [18:51]
punkman might be better with mining rigs [18:51]
asciilifeform Adlai: elaborate please re: theoretical. [18:52]
Adlai would you automate the following system: a car that self-destructs (killing the intruder) when it detects that it's being accessed without the owner's permission? where ownership is determined in an arbitrarily advanced way, ie, physical token, password, biometric, whatever you fancy. [18:52]
asciilifeform ah, the ancient mines vs sentries debate. [18:53]
asciilifeform but this here is more of a sword vs pistol debate. [18:54]
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asciilifeform battlefield: an elevator. [18:54]
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asciilifeform Adlai: let's backtrack. the purpose of the effort spoken of earlier is to go from a 'bitcoind' of known pedigree to something worth using as a reference for, possibly in the future, reimplementation (how and by whom, deliberately not said) [18:59]
joecool your effort or gavin's? [18:59]
asciilifeform ben_vulpes and mod6 [19:00]
asciilifeform i'm only involved briefly and by accident. [19:00]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42879 @ 0.00045831 = 19.6519 BTC [-] {2} [19:00]
asciilifeform gavin is a fellow on the enemy side. [19:00]
asciilifeform the deltas between the original and the end product are to be studied and judged by the participants (currently ben_vulpes, mod6, and occasionally yours truly) [19:01]
asciilifeform in order to be studied in such a way as to be signable with good conscience, a given delta must exist as a purely human-readable document, of minimal length and formatting complexity. [19:01]
asciilifeform this means - ordinary unix patch. [19:01]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: what do you think about BIP-65? [19:02]
asciilifeform thestringpuller: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-11-2014#919065 [19:02]
assbot Logged on 13-11-2014 01:46:06; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: bip-0065 << classic 'relevance farming.' the phoundation will take any excuse to add cruft to the gizmo. in their fantasy, folks will use it, and those who have resisted their turds will be forced to merge in. [19:02]
asciilifeform but more generally, any and all 'improvements' from the enemy ought to be thought of as 'fruits of poison tree' [19:03]
thestringpuller hmm. what do you think of the nlocktime problem? [19:04]
asciilifeform problem? [19:04]
asciilifeform no gavin, no gavinisms - no problem. [19:05]
thestringpuller nlocktime gives spender power to double spend before nlocktime occurs [19:05]
nubbins` surely the coar devs have spoken on this point [19:05]
thestringpuller but yes I do see the new opcode as sorta crufty on "cruft" [19:06]
asciilifeform 'doctor, it hurts when i do it.' 'don't do it.' [19:06]
thestringpuller so how would you use nlocktime asciilifeform ? [19:06]
asciilifeform i wouldn't. [19:07]
thestringpuller its a pretty neat feature for say senior to give jr. allotments of capital at guarenteed future date [19:07]
asciilifeform we've a dire case of featuritis. [19:08]
nubbins` ;;google feature creep [19:08]
gribble Feature creep - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: ; What is feature creep - SearchCIO - TechTarget: ; Urban Dictionary: feature creep: [19:08]
nubbins` hm i've got a specific creep in mind [19:08]
asciilifeform one of the facts re: the phoundation is - even if gavin et. al. add something that is unambiguously, probably, angelically, positive to their turd - it is still an act of evil. [19:08]
nubbins` ;;google feature creep site:dilbert.com [19:08]
gribble Feature Creep on Dilbert.com: ; February 5 2001 - Dilbert: ; Dilbert comic strip for 02/25/2013 from the official Dilbert comic strips ...: [19:08]
thestringpuller yes yes. but if this is case should we not remove nlocktime altogether? [19:09]
asciilifeform how? because it then serves as bait, sugar so that you will swallow the shit. [19:09]
nubbins` http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2001-02-05/ [19:09]
assbot Dilbert comic strip for 02/05/2001 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive. [19:09]
asciilifeform at this point, the enemy is enemy not simply because of what he does or may do, but because of what he has done and what he is. [19:09]
asciilifeform this is a phrase transition of sorts. [19:10]
nubbins` ;;google know your enemy [19:10]
gribble Rage Against The Machine: Know Your Enemy - YouTube: ; Green Day: "Know Your Enemy" - [Official Video] - YouTube: ; Know Your Enemy (Green Day song) - Wikipedia, the free ...: [19:10]
asciilifeform *phase transition [19:10]
thestringpuller the one by rage is pretty good [19:10]
thestringpuller "all of which are american dreams" [19:10]
nubbins` soooo, the fluorescent tubes that took TEN WEEKS to get here? turns out "F20T12/BL 6PK" is the item number not of a 6-pack, but of a single bulb [19:10]
nubbins` so instead of 18 bulbs, the guy pulls... three. [19:11]
nubbins` each of which is 6x more expensive than i'd previously thought. [19:11]
asciilifeform if what i just said seems like nuttery, consider this. the 'bug fixes', so obviously bright and good, by phoundation since 0.5.3 - somehow add up to us not being able to load a full blockchain. [19:11]
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asciilifeform hence, they add up to an act of sabotage. what probably amounts to a hard fork that 'no one' noticed. [19:12]
thestringpuller asciilifeform: know thy enemy << enemies are only relative. yesterday's allies easily become tomorrow's enemies. (perhaps maybe a one way street). [19:12]
asciilifeform there is precisely one enemy. but with many tentacles. [19:12]
nubbins` anyone besides alf actually tried and failed loading blockchain on 0.5.3? [19:12]
thestringpuller cthulu-like? [19:13]
asciilifeform there are also idiots. some of whom are of the 'useful idiot' variety [19:13]
asciilifeform nubbins`: iirc ben_vulpes did [19:13]
nubbins` i was getting there but my virtual disk was too small, ran outta space, weird disk error ;/ [19:13]
asciilifeform nubbins`: ask him where it wedged in his case [19:13]
thestringpuller nubbins`: i'll give it a try today on a VPS [19:13]
nubbins` trying again [19:13]
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nubbins` ;;later tell ben_vulpes ^^ tell us what you know [19:13]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:13]
thestringpuller nubbins`: so instead of 18 bulbs, the guy pulls... three. << so now you have to wait another 10 weeks to get the next 15 you need? [19:13]
* assbot gives voice to los_pantalones [19:14]
los_pantalones !up mrjr [19:14]
* assbot gives voice to mrjr [19:14]
los_pantalones mrjr is working w/ ntimelock [19:14]
los_pantalones for those of you with questions [19:14]
* ChanServ removes voice from mrjr [19:14]
nubbins` thestringpuller so now i say fuck that company and order the gd bulbs online [19:15]
los_pantalones hmm [19:15]
mike_c !up mrjr [19:15]
* assbot gives voice to mrjr [19:15]
nubbins` you know this is the second time i've gotten dicked around over bulbs? [19:15]
thestringpuller you would think it wouldn't be so difficult [19:15]
thestringpuller !up mrjr [19:15]
* assbot gives voice to mrjr [19:15]
nubbins` guy made me wait 15 minutes while he struggled to determine if they actually sold 6-packs [19:15]
nubbins` 15 actual minutes [19:15]
thestringpuller lol lag [19:15]
nubbins` while he mutters OH MY SOME SLOW [19:16]
nubbins` and a passing woman says SLOW WOULD BE AN IMPROVEMENT [19:16]
mrjr hi guys what did i miss :) [19:16]
nubbins` how in the fuck is this a functioning business [19:16]
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los_pantalones mrjr why don't you tell them a bit of what you are doing w/ ntimelock [19:17]
thestringpuller annoying the customer out of their money. [19:17]
los_pantalones see if that's compelling to the ppl in here [19:17]
thestringpuller los_pantalones: is this in regard to BIP-65? [19:17]
mrjr los_pantalones: i run LedgerLock, we're working on a product called time-vault, to secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key [19:19]
mrjr one of the first services we're providing (closed beta now) is keeping your nlock'ed transactions for you, until they're ripe for confirmations on the blockchain [19:21]
thestringpuller mrjr: aren't you in wot? what's your id? [19:21]
mrjr thestringpuller: never had the need for it :) [19:22]
nubbins` until now :D [19:23]
nubbins` pull up a chair [19:23]
nubbins` tell us more! [19:24]
punkman mrjr, guessing multisig [19:25]
thestringpuller ;;later tell BingoBoingo nvm; disregard [19:26]
gribble The operation succeeded. [19:26]
mrjr multisig is useful to protect access to privkey, by splitting the power of moving funds to 2+ entities. we pre-sign transactions, nlocked in time, and discard the private key. [19:28]
mrjr (or keys) [19:29]
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mrjr there's edge cases with malleability etc, but the benefits are that bitcoin operations can have their coins kept in a tx form, not as the information of the privkey [19:30]
mrjr we're working on a whitepaper to have some feedback on our design :) [19:31]
xanthyos https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B2Vp2l_IUAEFkd1.jpg [19:33]
mrjr the tech is useful e.g. for an exchange/bank that keeps large amounts of BTC, but has a daily use for BTC as clients withdraw funds. [19:33]
thestringpuller conclusion: our service holds burden of trust for time delay transactions [19:33]
thestringpuller but you already know that. [19:34]
mats_cd03 i don't see how thats useful [19:34]
mrjr thestringpuller: our first service is just what you wrote, giving the network a means to trust that a tx will be valid on time (unless ofcourse it was double spent, in which case you get notified) [19:35]
mrjr thestringpuller: the greater product is larger in scope [19:35]
thestringpuller then you should def be in WoT "there is no need" more like "there is no greater need" [19:35]
thestringpuller cause you are the trustee [19:36]
mrjr thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper. [19:37]
mrjr i'm also the founder of Bits of Gold, the largest exchange in Israel [19:37]
mrjr gotta go, be back soon [19:38]
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assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28419 @ 0.00044989 = 12.7854 BTC [-] {2} [19:58]
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Pierre_Rochard “i'll work on getting my creds in order :)” <- translation: “I won’t work on that, and here’s an insincere smile to really reinforce what I think of it” [20:09]
thestringpuller ^- pretty much [20:11]
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asciilifeform mrjr: secure your bitcoins in nlocked transactions rather than protecting the priv key << wai wat. [20:39]
asciilifeform mrjr: delayed transaction, per that scheme, still eventually lands in an addr. secured with what if not priv key ? [20:40]
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asciilifeform ;;later tell jurov nothing in my mailbox from turdatron. [20:46]
gribble The operation succeeded. [20:46]
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asciilifeform !up mrjr [20:48]
* assbot gives voice to mrjr [20:48]
mrjr asciilifeform: you're right, but by pre-signing you ensure that the amounts available at that address, per unit time, are limited. our first partners are ATM machine operators [20:49]
mrjr think of the daily needs of those machines, vs the amount stored "in cold storage" using traditional systems [20:50]
asciilifeform per unit time. but what can you do if someone walks with the privkey to the landing address? [20:50]
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asciilifeform if you already broadcast the delayed tx, all the thief has to do is wait. [20:50]
mrjr you can't and don [20:50]
mrjr 't broadcast the txs to that address [20:51]
mrjr you broadcast daily, as it's needed. [20:51]
asciilifeform what's the actual purpose of the delay ? [20:51]
asciilifeform let's work example [20:52]
asciilifeform take ordinary, delay-less coin. you fill up the atm's addr nightly, say. if you are told that someone walked away with the machine, you no longer send to that one. [20:52]
asciilifeform install new machine, with new address, more guards. [20:53]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00044315 = 6.0268 BTC [-] [20:53]
mrjr there's an alternative pre-signed transaction chain that sends the coins to alternative addresses, possibly more protected, and a pre-signed "lockdown" transaction that just sends the coins to a non-practical (from an operation standpoint) multisig [20:53]
asciilifeform in the case of delay mechanism: you've broadcast a set of delayed transactions that will keep landing in the now-stolen addr. nightly. [20:53]
mrjr i'll take your example and explain [20:53]
mrjr say you presign 50 BTC / day to a given ATM, coming from your stash of 1000 BTC. [20:54]
mrjr you do not broadcast those tx, you just keep the txs, signed, and discard the privkey to your 1000 BTC (!) [20:55]
asciilifeform i understand the 'what.' but not the 'why.' [20:56]
mrjr you pre-sign the txs that move the remaining 1000 BTC - x days to a non-practical multisig [20:56]
mrjr the why is: the operators of the ATM no longer have a need to reach out for the cold-stored 1000 BTC [20:57]
asciilifeform they didn't before [20:57]
asciilifeform when you sent to them manually each day. [20:57]
mrjr "when you sent them manually" [20:57]
mrjr *manually* [20:57]
asciilifeform if you like to keep the privkey to the 1000 buried in concrete at the bottom of the sea - you can sign X tx'es of B btc each, and transmit those each day with cron job [20:58]
mrjr I operate a 1000 ATMs, and I have a stash of 10,000 BTC (les pretend i do :) ) [20:58]
asciilifeform you want the btc network to be your 'cron' ? [20:58]
asciilifeform why? [20:58]
joecool more robust i guess if an attack wipes him out? [20:59]
mrjr you still need a cron, to send the nlocked txs every day [20:59]
joecool then what's the point -_- [20:59]
mrjr however you could publish those txs on your blog for all you care [20:59]
asciilifeform what does the 'lock' prevent the enemy from doing, that he could have done otherwise ? [20:59]
mrjr if the attacker has access to all your txs in unlocked version, they can indeed run away with everything [21:00]
mrjr discarding the privkey is a measure against internal theft, which is key to this scheme [21:00]
asciilifeform the other, unrelated point about the timelock business, is that it introduces an incentive to monkey with timekeeping [21:00]
asciilifeform which is not something that currently afflicts node operators [21:01]
jurov punkman: germany has same electric rates for residential and commercial lines << they do have lower wholesale prices where you have to obey the grid management regime, dunno about details [21:01]
asciilifeform if a critical mass of ntp servers (e.g. the u.s. hierarchy) is pwned, there go your timelocks. [21:01]
mrjr did i explain sufficiently the motivation part? [21:01]
punkman asciilifeform: nlocktime is block height I think [21:02]
* asciilifeform reads the thing [21:02]
punkman oh both apparently? [21:02]
joecool punkman: it has to be both [21:02]
mrjr we ran the scenario on the withdraw data from gox [21:04]
mrjr (put asside their entire fiasco, just the data) [21:04]
mrjr we saw that with just 1,000 BTC accessible to the operators, they could cover 96% of their Bitcoin withdrawal needs [21:05]
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mrjr the remaining 200k+ BTC can be stored in a form that is in-accessible to the operator, and unavailable for "rogue txs" that steal everything [21:06]
mrjr inaccessible = nobody can sign, because the key no longer exists. [21:06]
mrjr that includes internal theft. [21:07]
* asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works' [21:07]
asciilifeform mircea_popescu ^^^^^ [21:07]
asciilifeform *revocable [21:07]
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asciilifeform alice in the looking-glass, famously is offered 'jam tomorrow and jam yesterday -- but never jam today.' [21:08]
asciilifeform bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element [21:09]
asciilifeform so sorely missing from bitcoin from the point of view of the enemy. [21:09]
mrjr i wasnt aware there was politics behind nlock. always considered it as potentially very useful. [21:10]
asciilifeform but now you're aware. [21:10]
mrjr got a blog / post on the issue you're describing? sounds interesting [21:11]
asciilifeform afaik this here is the only place you'll hear the argument. [21:11]
asciilifeform i just deduced it now. [21:11]
asciilifeform can't imagine i'm the only one, though. [21:11]
mrjr ill go get my wot in order [21:11]
mrjr ttyl [21:11]
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asciilifeform !b 15 [21:12]
assbot Last 15 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/02NHQYM.txt ) [21:12]
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mats_cd03 ;;ticker [21:30]
gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 399.08, Best ask: 399.97, Bid-ask spread: 0.89000, Last trade: 399.98, 24 hour volume: 49575.14498042, 24 hour low: 381.55, 24 hour high: 453.92, 24 hour vwap: 429.779216449 [21:30]
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thestringpuller asciilifeform: can't imagine i'm the only one, though. << you aren't [21:37]
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xanthyos come mr towel man towel my banana [21:54]
xanthyos why does btc always crash the second i buy it [22:03]
xanthyos ^^ proof positive that jesus hates me [22:03]
xanthyos that's it, i'm gonna blow it all on 1 hand of internet roulette [22:04]
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undata xanthyos: that should've been expected with such a sharp rise. [22:07]
xanthyos if it crashes, my purchase goes through, if it goes to the moon, coinbase will cancel the transaction [22:08]
xanthyos i hope not^ [22:08]
undata you've angered bitjesus I guess [22:08]
xanthyos mammon? [22:09]
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asciilifeform mammon << sterculius. [22:19]
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The20YearIRCloud hmm [22:23]
xanthyos 4 business days is so obscene, no wonder banking is dead [22:25]
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jurov can't you just buy off stan? [22:34]
jurov what would happen, gasenwagen? [22:35]
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asciilifeform jurov: buy what? [22:36]
jurov xanthyos wants to buy coins, you need some $$$ [22:36]
jurov no? [22:36]
asciilifeform jurov: except that i can't use paper usd for anything [22:37]
asciilifeform well, almost anything [22:37]
jurov and if he gave you some bezzle usd? [22:37]
asciilifeform last farmer's market of the year on my street is tonight, and i shall be buying a few tomatoes possibly with it [22:37]
asciilifeform jurov: if bezzle usd, then it's on the radar. [22:37]
xanthyos ? [22:38]
jurov you'd have to register as std..er..money transmitter? [22:38]
asciilifeform jurov: i'd be charged tax, most likely [22:38]
asciilifeform for no particularly good reason [22:38]
xanthyos i only use paper money for poker games and cannabis [22:38]
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dub your dealer doesnt take btc? [22:38]
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jurov maybe you can even charge tax to the desperate people [22:39]
jurov let them ask it back from irs [22:39]
asciilifeform other thing is, i don't have enough to sell, and present exchange rates being, to really notice the resulting pile of usd, even if it could magically land in my usd piggy without official attention. [22:40]
asciilifeform let's put it this way. a pile of usd without at least seven or eight decimally-significant zeros trailing after it, would make absolutely no difference to how i live. [22:46]
asciilifeform apologies if i've given someone, somewhere, the strange notion that i'm interested in parting with my microscopic collection of btc. [22:50]
asciilifeform it's of more use to me as a scientific toy than as a few new tires for car or a dozen spare disks. [22:52]
BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2014/11/dickson-county-tennessee-sheriff-hit-with-ransomware-pays/ [22:53]
assbot Dickson County Tennessee Sheriff Hit with Ransomware, Pays | Qntra.net [22:53]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: missing link in there? [22:53]
rithm yeah i was gonna say where is the citation [22:54]
rithm you guys _do_ cite your sources [22:54]
BingoBoingo fixed [22:54]
BingoBoingo citation is now there. [22:54]
asciilifeform run moar winblows. [22:55]
asciilifeform gotta love these idiots. when'll somebody edit, rather than simply wiping, the case files ? [22:56]
notary [trust-update] added: bagels7 [22:57]
rithm i shared that with my team [22:57]
rithm documented sources where the FBI actually makes the recommendation to pay the ransom is useful to me [22:57]
BingoBoingo I imagine eventually the ransomware people will start browsing what they've seized [22:58]
asciilifeform BingoBoingo: traditionally 'ransomware' doesn't exfiltrate [22:58]
asciilifeform just pubkey-crypts [22:58]
TomServo It's extracted? I thought it was just locked inplace. [22:58]
rithm well it's my understanding the data is not exfiltrated [22:58]
rithm not immediately although that could be a later payload [22:58]
asciilifeform virtually nobody dredges through a chumpnet's entire accessible data set, on account of this being very much like actual work. [22:59]
rithm the only data exfiltrated to my knowledge is the decryption key and an identifier for the machine [22:59]
BingoBoingo Well yes, normally seems to stay on victim's computer, but if they can lock the files, they can include other shitware [22:59]
rithm but it's be trivial to exfiltrate compressed text, sure [22:59]
asciilifeform rithm: most of it is probably msword [23:00]
rithm it only hits plain text [23:00]
rithm so like a .sql db is plaintext unless encrypted [23:00]
rithm it hits plain text viewable docs, even weird proprietary ones [23:00]
rithm proprietary .idx files and stuff. always plaintext though [23:00]
asciilifeform speaking of the general case here. [23:01]
asciilifeform 'civilians' often seriously misunderstand the motivation behind botnetsmanship. [23:01]
rithm i had an engineer reinstall windows on a cryptowall pc this week and return it to the client [23:01]
asciilifeform the objective, virtually always, is to make some fast money [23:01]
asciilifeform with minimal effort [23:01]
rithm we never tested the docs, the client brought it to us and tried to hide or cleasn it up [23:01]
rithm we returned it "fixed" never check ed the client's docs [23:01]
rithm i think i've dealt with 5 of those this week [23:02]
asciilifeform crapware written for intelligence-gathering purposes ( BingoBoingo's picture above ) rarely takes the shape of a 'botnet', usually there is some effort to target a narrow set of chumpers. [23:02]
joecool poweliks is a really interesting infection that often pulls in the cyperlocker ransomware, that hit the wild a couple months ago [23:02]
assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38600 @ 0.00044251 = 17.0809 BTC [-] [23:03]
rithm it's cryptowall now and from what i can tell it's infected sites like mom & pop's ruinning old WP/drupal/some CMS [23:03]
rithm the story i hear is Nancy was checking vendor's site and the next thing she knows bam cryptowall [23:03]
rithm remote code execution is code execution is execution [23:04]
rithm the problem is cryptolocker runs entirely in the user context [23:04]
rithm so anything the user has access to, specifically filesystem permissions [23:05]
rithm they can modify [23:05]
rithm so the payload is a real basic thing, modifying files. i hate it [23:06]
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joecool rithm: ever play with TDL4? [23:07]
rithm i don't see a lot of those infections [23:08]
rithm used to see a good bit tdss [23:08]
rithm etc [23:08]
rithm i myself have not deployed my own nefarious variant of that either, no [23:09]
joecool it's been a long time for me, but that was the most sophisticated and difficult infection i've seen, XP was hit really easy with it [23:09]
rithm in general i have run subscription based-packet filtering firewalls to stop things [23:09]
rithm because users are stupid [23:10]
joecool poweliks is much more simple, usually creates a binary in registry hides it with a null character and puts it in with something that gets called up a lot (like thumbnail cache) [23:10]
rithm poweliks I'm not familiar with [23:10]
joecool it's new [23:10]
joecool past 2 months or so it's been in the wild [23:10]
rithm i review a lot of the desktop stuff, not actually interface with it on the frontlines [23:10]
rithm so i need to study [23:11]
joecool i got called in to look at an infection that no tool but combofix would pick up, combofix itself would not successfully remove it [23:11]
rithm oic there's now PE or even a filesystem object [23:11]
asciilifeform crapware artists, generally, aren't focused on 'maximally pwning' a chump in the abstract sense, but in extracting whatever it is that he is worth - e.g., cc #s [23:11]
rithm *no PE [23:11]
asciilifeform if userland turd suffices for this, then so be it, they use one [23:11]
joecool asciilifeform: poweliks by default runs a keylogger and is pretty candid about storing the output in plaintext in a tmp file [23:12]
joecool it's simple but effective tool to pull in all sorts of junk, the case i was called in to look at was actually a POS system :- [23:13]
rithm i can see how something like this plus a ram scraper would be effective [23:14]
rithm on POS [23:14]
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BingoBoingo http://yro.slashdot.org/story/14/11/13/199242/no-you-cant-seize-country-tlds-us-court-rules [23:23]
assbot No, You Can't Seize Country TLDs, US Court Rules - Slashdot [23:23]
mircea_popescu flimsy as fyck pretext [23:24]
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mircea_popescu they should have found that tlds are of the nature of national sovereignty and that cannot be impinged upon by an us court. [23:24]
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asciilifeform usa recognizes only own sovereignty. [23:25]
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mircea_popescu the very definition of a terrorist organisation. [23:25]
asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-11-2014#914983 [23:25]
assbot Logged on 08-11-2014 18:24:33; mircea_popescu: "those people's laws aren't really laws, our laws are really laws". [23:25]
mircea_popescu if that's the case, the us can not be part of the un. [23:25]
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mircea_popescu as unintuitive as this may seem, these two are actually different. [23:26]
asciilifeform http://media.boreme.com/post_media/2005/kermit-visits-doctor.jpg [23:26]
mircea_popescu it's roughly the difference between me not recognising X's thinking as valid and me not recognising X's property as his. [23:27]
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mircea_popescu lol [23:27]
mircea_popescu assbot: Cloud&Heat is putting servers in homes and offices and the heat from them is free. << o look, one step closer to the bitcoin miner heating tile element. [23:29]
BingoBoingo https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131118/01542825271/fbi-stops-responding-to-most-prolific-foia-filer-because-he-might-actually-learn-something.shtml?utm_content=buffer6164d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer [23:29]
assbot FBI Stops Responding To The Most Prolific FOIA Filer, Because He Might Actually Learn Something | Techdirt [23:29]
asciilifeform next thing you know, they start asking 'proof of work'. [23:30]
asciilifeform foiacoin. [23:31]
mircea_popescu asciilifeform: i wouldn't. << heh. exactly. [23:31]
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cazalla wru scoopbot http://qntra.net/2014/11/bank-of-canada-bitcoin-poses-no-risk-but-well-watch-it-closely-anyway/ [23:33]
assbot Bank of Canada: Bitcoin Poses No Risk But We'll Watch It Closely Anyway | Qntra.net [23:33]
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mircea_popescu http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/11/foia-ryan-shapiro-fbi-files-lawsuit << pretty lulzy [23:33]
assbot Meet the Punk Rocker Who Can Liberate Your FBI File | Mother Jones [23:33]
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mircea_popescu The FBI claims that it cannot discuss the case in open court "without damaging the very national security law enforcement interests it is seeking to protect." Instead, it has filed a secret declaration outlining its case. "This is an especially circular and Kafkaesque line of argument," Shapiro counters. "The FBI considers it a national security threat to make public its reasoning for considering it a national security [23:34]
mircea_popescu threat to use federal law to request information about the FBI's deeply problematic understanding of national security threats." [23:34]
mircea_popescu shot the guy an email, curious what comes of this. [23:38]
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mircea_popescu thestringpuller: its a pretty neat feature for say senior to give jr. allotments of capital at guarenteed future date << there are better solutions to this problem. [23:40]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: at this point, the enemy is enemy not simply because of what he does or may do, but because of what he has done and what he is. <<< well, at the previous point the enemy was not an enemy at all, just a bunch of derps. it's ony recently that trilema went from "power rangers" to "gavin has turned", and for a while there prior to the 2013 debacle he was not even being treated in concordance with the idiocy [23:42]
mircea_popescu he, in retrospect, universally displays. [23:42]
asciilifeform enemy is built out of useful idiots, in the same way that a tree is made of atmospheric co2 and soil nutrients [23:43]
mircea_popescu the naivity of contemporaneity, as it's called. hitler also seemed pretty reasonable to plenty of people as far up as perhaps 1940, but that's not preventing a current understanding of the guy to see him as pretty fucking broken as early as 1930 [23:43]
BingoBoingo !b 3 [23:44]
assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/04CVCC6.txt ) [23:44]
mircea_popescu kafka is actually famous for exactly the ability to render this real situation in works of fiction. as you read through the castle or whatever, at some point you realise this is all pretty nutty, but if you look back to spot when the nuttiness started...well... it didn't seem so at the time. [23:44]
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asciilifeform this goes straight back to galbraith's original discussion where he coined 'the bezzle.' [23:45]
jurov ;;later tell Adlai your msg finally went throught. it choked on not mime structure intricacies [23:45]
gribble The operation succeeded. [23:45]
asciilifeform a bezzle is there, whether or not the 'wave function collapsed yet'. [23:45]
mircea_popescu for a zoologiocal metaphor, the man once bit by a scorpion will readily recognise the "scorpion biting" as an activity that to the naive may well look rather cute. [23:45]
mircea_popescu and certainly not threatening. [23:45]
mircea_popescu i mean... look at it's tail lol. what's it going to do with that improbable appendage ? how ridoinculous etc. [23:46]
mircea_popescu yeah, sure. give it a minute. [23:46]
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mircea_popescu !up m4rCsi [23:47]
-assbot- You voiced m4rCsi for 30 minutes. [23:47]
* assbot gives voice to m4rCsi [23:47]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: hence, they add up to an act of sabotage. what probably amounts to a hard fork that 'no one' noticed. << i dun think so, fwiw [23:49]
asciilifeform i'm still waiting to be proven mistaken on this one. [23:50]
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mircea_popescu asciilifeform: there is precisely one enemy. but with many tentacles. <<< one you see now. once china's idiotic mr Xi shows up you'll be of a differing opinion. that fuckwit came up with a "war on corruption" that includes the theory that conjugal infidelity is both a sign and a symptom of graft. this is what they do over there now, prosecute cocksuckers & sluts. [23:52]
mircea_popescu he's definitely just as much an enemy as the wily putin, who clearly understands what bitcoin is all about, and is fighting it more efficiently than the us. [23:53]
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mircea_popescu so, no. not the same. tentacles tho, i guess. [23:53]
asciilifeform same from the perspective that french rev. saw 'kings' as a thing. [23:53]
mircea_popescu i guess. [23:53]
asciilifeform even though it was rather clear that there were many kings. [23:53]
mircea_popescu in any case, the plurality is beneficial. serenissima foreign policy is to continue helping along the numerous and growing breeches among the three [23:54]
mircea_popescu just like the original did, among the french germans and latins. [23:54]
mircea_popescu ironically, they today as they back then were "the enemy" strictly because they do not wish to understand or submit to trade, and instead seek to insulate against it. as if. [23:56]
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asciilifeform the philosophical 'win' from setting 'bozo bit' on gavin et. al. and seeing the shitgang as 'enemy' is tangible. [23:58]
mircea_popescu i guess so. [23:58]
mircea_popescu !up saifedean [23:58]
-assbot- You voiced saifedean for 30 minutes. [23:59]
* assbot gives voice to saifedean [23:59]
asciilifeform now all of their works are 'guilty until proven innocent' and this is actually a useful heuristic that saves valuable brain cycles when ferreting out the actual logic behind their actions (when there is a logic.) [23:59]
saifedean good evening everyone [23:59]
mircea_popescu isn't it like midnight where you live ? [23:59]
mats_cd03 mircea_popescu: who are the three this time? [23:59]
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