Forum logs for 13 Jan 2019

Monday, 16 March, Year 12 d.Tr. | Author:
diana_coman: http://trilema.com/forum-logs-for-12-jan-2019#2509902 -> this made me jump at first to check on S.MG's servers with Pizarro BingoBoingo please make those announcements clear from the start as to what services precisely are/have been affected [03:24]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 00:03 BingoBoingo: Attn: The Pizarro has rebooted, this was first noticed by mod6. A quick trip to the datacenter showed both power supplies were had their happy green lights lit, the ambient air was conditioned with cool everywhere outside the hot aisle, and the server's chassis was not particularly warm. attn: asciilifeform [03:24]
diana_coman: mod6, the V check post looks good maybe move to the new blog your older posts on http://mod6.net/blog.html and update the link at http://mod6.net/ ? [03:36]
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884617 <-- ftr, I agree 100% with this assessment. the last 4 months (at least) of my life have been a rollercoaster, and I'm just beginning to settle down into an arrangement where I can set goals without getting preempted at every corner. my current goal is to have a schedule posted by the end of the month, in the same style as http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2735 , [04:56]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 14:30 mircea_popescu: spyked is evidently trying, hence feedbot, but evidently having trouble reconciling saeculum, which i'm going to let stand as such on the grounds that he's new -- even though experience shows that as a dubious idea [for all the eg one could possibly need witness how asciilifeform 's still in the swamp, so many years later]. [04:56]
spyked: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/11/conveyor-outlook-now-to-feb-2019/ and others [04:56]
spyked: and in better news, house mogosanu (82.79.58.192) has a fully synced trb node up. it's been running without issues for almost a month now. IMHO it's ready to be added to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html (cc mod6) [04:59]
spyked: and in other tasks in my queue, I propose adding billymg and mod6's blogs to feedbot (I'll do that tomorrow if there are no objections) [05:02]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman it's entirely possible he didn't know. [08:19]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Apologies for the startling [08:51]
mircea_popescu: spyked feedbot additions process usually goes the other way but in this case sure. [08:51]
mircea_popescu: in other news : i'm not entirely current here, but diana_coman does seem to have neatly resolved the ada-cpp linking conundrums. going on which theory, the next step we're upon is what to do with the keys. [09:28]
mircea_popescu: this is a matter of best practices that's by its nature a republican standard candidate, so i'd very much like to hear the esteemed lordship. [09:29]
mircea_popescu: ad interim the draft is, that the client stores all the keys (rsa, serpent, whatever) one per line, the rsa ones in republican format, the rest unspecified as of yet, in a file called keys.tmsr encrypted by the rsa key of the client. [09:29]
mircea_popescu: this leaves open the "wut do about that encryption key". [09:30]
mircea_popescu: i'd rather not grandfather the current bitcoin wallet approach, time-tested as it might be. but this problem will recur (no later than "wut do wallet" in any case). so... [09:30]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, and anyone else following smg comms protocol: http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-127409 [11:53]
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886456 << Thanks for reading & feedback diana_coman! I'm working to port over the old-ones as I can. I'll find a temporary solution in the mean time. [12:49]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 08:36 diana_coman: mod6, the V check post looks good maybe move to the new blog your older posts on http://mod6.net/blog.html and update the link at http://mod6.net/ ? [12:49]
billymg: !Q later tell hanbot mp-wp patches have been updated: http://billymg.com/2019/01/minor-mp-wp-patch-updates/ -- the only "\ No newline at end of file" strings you should find in .svg refs patch are from before part of the diff (i.e. file diffed had no newline at the end) [12:54]
lobbesbot: billymg: The operation succeeded. [12:54]
billymg: the* before part [12:55]
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886460 << Ah, well done, Sir. I've added your name and host's IP to the list of Advertised Republican Nodes. Cheers! [12:57]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 09:59 spyked: and in better news, house mogosanu (82.79.58.192) has a fully synced trb node up. it's been running without issues for almost a month now. IMHO it's ready to be added to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html (cc mod6) [12:57]
trinque: hola #t [13:47]
trinque: BingoBoingo: in reading your latest, I'm curious what fallback plans you have in between pizarro as is today and pizarro shuttered. [13:48]
trinque: trivially, if you're not using the full capacity of the rack, first thing I'd do is try to renegotiate the contract with DC for a smaller rental. [13:49]
BingoBoingo: trinque: I don't have concrete plans. The major part of the DC cost is pipe rather than rack. Renegotiating for less pipe with the datacenter would change the costs we are basing our colocation price off of as well. [13:53]
trinque: consider that I'd, at least, suffer less pipe sooner than no pipe. [13:54]
trinque: how much runway does a smaller pipe give, and what's the definition of "smaller pipe"? [13:55]
BingoBoingo: Well the numbers as of last January http://bingology.net/2018/01/18/datacenter-costs/ [13:57]
trinque: BingoBoingo: next thing to do would be to instrument the router and see what you're actually using [14:00]
trinque: I'd be shocked if you needed more than that 10/100. [14:01]
trinque: I don't see why you'd change your pricing at all if it turns out nobody's using the capacity. [14:09]
BingoBoingo: This may be the case. I am very wary about pursuing that avenue without the board and input from all major Pizarro customers. [14:09]
trinque: at any rate, let me know if you actually want me to weigh in on how to keep it alive. if not, let me know when you want to scrap my server for me, and we can split the proceeds. dead in april without a plan in january is dead now. [14:10]
BingoBoingo: trinque: Please continue to weigh in. The present lack of weighing in on Pizarro by the forum is concerning. [14:13]
trinque: you've got my support to make whatever changes you need to capacity to get more time to think on the rest. [14:14]
mod6: http://blog.mod6.net/?p=26 << Here's my TRB Keccak Regrind blog post. I have a tarball linked very near the bottom that contains my reground trb keccak vtree, as well as seals for each. These are posted so one may test with these (I need the help!). [14:15]
BingoBoingo: trinque: Thank you very much for making your desires known. [14:16]
mod6: While Republicans are reviewing the above, I'm going to continue working on my TRB HOWTO updates -- I think it's pretty much finished, but I want to test it first before I start handing it around for testing by all. After this, and blessings of the regrind from TMSR~, I'll put a date on when thebitcoin.foundation site will roll over to the keccak vtree exclusively. [14:18]
mod6: Thank you in advance to all who read my blog post and make it all the way through. It's a bit lengthy, but most of it may be fairly obvious to the initiated. [14:19]
mod6: lol, this is pretty great. So I was just looking at the post, and I was thinking "why does my 8th item in the overview seems spaced in one extra space?", and then I looked at the published source. [14:23]
mod6: Mind you, the entire thing is wrapped in <pre>, so that's perhaps why it still shows '8)'. [14:23]
mod6: But this is what the code says: <img src='http://blog.mod6.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> [14:24]
mod6: I'll see if I can work around it somehow. [14:24]
mod6: Alright, switched the ')' to ']', and avoids the problem. [14:26]
mod6: Also, it seems that my mega-diff in the blog somehow slightly-skews the justification to the right by a few characters. I'll try to remedy that. In the mean time, if people want to just read the raw text post instead, I've made that available here as well: http://www.mod6.net/2019/January/13/keccak_regrind_noUTF8.txt [14:42]
mod6: Alright, I fixed it. But I'll leave the raw file out there anyway just in case. [14:48]
mod6: The problem was, in the mega-diff, there were two places that had lines like this: " -datadir=<dir> \t\t " + _("Specify data directory\n") + [14:48]
mod6: Which wp didn't touch the <dir> tag and replace with &lt and &gt, and for whatever reason, <dir> seems to play with the text formatting. So after I replaced, it seems aligned properly now. [14:49]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman answer't. [14:52]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, no select script on pizarro's blog? [15:03]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, hmm basically a client can end up "making an account" with Eve and not even knowing it/getting then stuck/receiving unexpected messages at next attempt with legitimate server I'm sure a client can basically recover/notice in the end but it pushes a bit more complexity on client [15:11]
mircea_popescu: it does so push, but the alternative is pushing more complexity in the wrong place. [15:11]
mircea_popescu: "There isn't, nor is there going to be a way, manner, instrument or device through which to protect the passive from the active." or how did that go. [15:12]
diana_coman: at any rate, the q was exactly that: a q for clarification not finding fault [15:17]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, specifically and a bit of follow-up on trinque's point above: pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ has this tiny paragraph starting with "action items" - was/is that fleshed out anywhere? [15:18]
mircea_popescu: yup. [15:30]
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, no select script on pizarro's blog? << I'll get it set up in the next couple days. [15:41]
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2019/01/el-chapo-allegedly-used-voip-had-sysadmin-flipped-by-criminal-fbi/ << this shit is pretty lulzy. [15:42]
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, specifically and a bit of follow-up on trinque's point above: pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ has this tiny paragraph starting with "action items" - was/is that fleshed out anywhere? << I flesh out Pizarro's situation here http://bingology.net/2019/01/11/more-lessons-learned-pizarro-entering-2019/ I am hoping to get feedback from the Pizarro board (asciilifeform and mod6) and this forum. trinque is the first person to [15:46]
BingoBoingo: offer feedback [15:46]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: "___ __________ never fails to unintentionally entertain" [15:48]
mircea_popescu: keks [15:48]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886286 << who is this ?! [15:49]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 04:26 asciilifeform: meanwhile via #asciilifeform : http://btcinfo.sdf.org/blog/building-the-eulora-client-with-gentoo.html << apparently d00d cleanly baked client on cuntoo [15:49]
trinque: that's shinohai [15:50]
mircea_popescu: nice going shinohai [15:50]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't know that there's anything wrong with returning gcd of 0,0 as 0. in my abstract mental model wherein 1 is a divisor of all numbers, gcd 0,0 =1, and furthermore 0 can never be a divisor of anything but this purely set-driven problem is inconsequential in boole's alt-world afaak. [15:53]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886306 << returning gcd as 0 is an error message by itself, the usual set is [1,inf) [15:58]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 15:06 asciilifeform: diana_coman: correct. but i also did not 'ha! let's make it eggog cuz nobody did' [15:58]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886328 << absolutely not as a philosophical matter this is akin to asking for "the machine to extend classes implicitly" aka both dwim & http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1043874 rolled into one. [16:00]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 15:13 asciilifeform: imho arg can be made for it being the gcd-invoker's responsibility to know what to do with the output [16:00]
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 02:28 asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.' [16:00]
mircea_popescu: the machine is expected to give ~correct~ outputs in all cases not to give "outputs which may be meaningful if the user knew how to context-interpret them" [16:01]
mircea_popescu: that latter is actually what c ended up. [16:01]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886356 << afaik not bounded. [16:09]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 17:28 asciilifeform: would still be handy if someone knew of a smaller bound for s, but not burning q. [16:09]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886376 << with some caveats as to how "unrelated" (in the m-r sense of the term) those candidates must be, as it's entirely possible to generate an infinite set of lying witnesses for any composite number. [16:13]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 17:48 asciilifeform: ( re 'how many witnesses', see diana_coman's article, it reviews the necessary maffs, i.e. P(yer prime aint a prime and you die) == (1/4)^n, where n is # of witness ) [16:13]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that's shinohai [16:14]
mircea_popescu: aha [16:14]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886385 << basically "maybe-kinda-sorta lightweight" "pre-linked so you don't have to" version of static ? [16:15]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 18:03 diana_coman: so that'd be at least the "encapsulated" part explained [16:15]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-11#1886387 << hopefully can just reuse item. that's the idea at least. [16:16]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 18:06 asciilifeform: and ftr i'm surely doomed to run into diana_coman's puzzler myself, when i go to write a threaded proggy (e.g. adaized trb) [16:16]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, http://ossasepia.com/2019/01/12/compiling-ada-library-for-use-with-non-ada-main/#selection-79.0-91.300 [16:16]
mircea_popescu: putting all sorts of things in there specifically so later on people don't run into "omfg retards why the fuck would they do it like that!!!" sorta issues [16:17]
mircea_popescu: ic! [16:18]
diana_coman: I still think it's a mess basically and I wrote it there like that with bullet points precisely because I know I will keep tripping over this so at least I know where to go to ... [16:20]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, I re-read now that post with the idea in mind that it's meant to be the "fleshed out" version - it reads like a reasonable summary but I still fail to see the fleshed out plans going forward and esp re "try to drink the ocean" I followed the links and noticed the posts but I still get the impression those are only a few and/or manually done, is that correct? [16:23]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, re size it's actually going from ~95k current size of static standalone lib to ~800k size of same thing but "encapsulated" [16:26]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I am posting and prodding forums manually, and those are not the only two. Those examples were selected for their relative visibilty. I am getting some noises in response to my fishing now. I plan to meet one fellow from one forum next week while he's passing through the city. [16:27]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, specifically this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880369 [16:29]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 19:39 mircea_popescu: why not just enumerate the userbase and message them all ? [16:29]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I am presently hand cranking the database walking. [16:31]
diana_coman: how do you see that working before pizarro starves? [16:33]
diana_coman: I fail to find also a continuation to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884838 - > was there some discussion on this going forwards? [16:39]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-05 16:45 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-05#1884603 << BingoBoingo i'd ~really~ like to hear what is current plan for gettin' heathen custom, so as to finally get the hell out of the red. asciilifeform dun have a massive treasure chest that can run pizarro 'on battery' 4evah (hopefully not surprising, this) [16:39]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-12#1886407 << where's he going to meet a 20something ? [16:40]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-12 01:00 asciilifeform: wtf re '49 Year Old' tho! i'd naively think 'may as well hang for a sheep as for a lamb'... [16:40]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886480 << that's not particularly useful, seeing how... it'd necessarily mean ppl other than him going into the rack, yes ? kinda kills the value propositioin [17:02]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 18:49 trinque: trivially, if you're not using the full capacity of the rack, first thing I'd do is try to renegotiate the contract with DC for a smaller rental. [17:02]
mircea_popescu: but in other keks, this could be taken as a "shutdown" a la republique. [17:03]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886483 << it can't possibly be the problem the dc's kicking him out, he just got a decent chunk wired there. i rather expect he's running into tyhe problem of what to eat himself. [17:04]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 18:55 trinque: how much runway does a smaller pipe give, and what's the definition of "smaller pipe"? [17:04]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's the problem of what happens in March-April when that runs out. [17:05]
mircea_popescu: aha [17:05]
BingoBoingo: If the marketing can't start catching fish. On this point I am working on a response to diana_coman. The short of it is I want help, and I want to know what kind of incentive can bring in some hands to help with marketing. [17:06]
diana_coman: could pizarro even get in the green just by reducing the pipe? sharing rack sounds more like killing pizarro by definition [17:08]
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886499 << yeah, dunno if youi're using mp-wp or not, but in any case, it has a filter thingee you can turn off/adsjust [17:09]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 19:24 mod6: I'll see if I can work around it somehow. [17:09]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman i never heard of a body that thrived by eating its fingers, no. [17:10]
mircea_popescu: generally, bodily parts to be used the ~other~ direction. [17:10]
diana_coman: and in any case it'd be at best avoiding the problem rather than solving it so more agony down the line in all likelihood [17:10]
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> how do you see that working before pizarro starves? << I worry. The more I think about the marketing and trying to make a plan for marketing I worry. I am in the unhappy position of being out of my depth on the marketing problem, repeating my concerns about my lack of marketing prowess, trying to apply advice as I can while juggling other concerns, and not getting any feedback on incentives that can bring other people in [17:12]
BingoBoingo: to work on the Pizarro marketing problem. Recently there have been some promising contacts from marketing efforts, but I haven't been converting yet. [17:12]
mircea_popescu: did you get the bitcoin->fiat thing going ? bank accounts, all that jazz ? [17:13]
* asciilifeform just got back from snow-related chores, ate log, but must go again shortly [17:14]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: We can do bitcoin to fiat. That is largely solved. [17:15]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there can be no question of 'sharing rack', it's entirely nonstarter. what there are, are half-height racks, in which most of the other customers of that bldg live. but they are bad deal, iirc they only cost slightly less than a full 42 height. [17:15]
mircea_popescu: i expect. [17:15]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo did you ever tell how ? or proprietary sauce ? [17:16]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, but how *many* accounts did you message out of how many in the db, over what time, what filter(s) did you use and with what results? [17:16]
* asciilifeform will answr gcd etc. points later, would like to keep the bandwidth clear for BingoBoingo thread [17:18]
diana_coman: and for that matter what is in the pipe to add more to that db , anyway? [17:18]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman aha, recall ye olde http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/#footnote_3_62044 [17:20]
diana_coman: yes! I was basically waiting for something like that as a minimum re promised writeup review [17:20]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well for the most part, I have a bank account. We've been doing the fiat auctions, and one of the localbitcoins traders has grown his ablity to handle larger conversions as he's gone full time working his bicycle based currency exchange. So far this can meet our near term needs. [17:21]
mircea_popescu: 2015s standards. [17:21]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo minus the perceived squishy, not bad. [17:21]
asciilifeform: oh hey terraforming actually started working ?! neat [17:21]
diana_coman: ugh, why is pizarro's tech finding out this only now! [17:22]
mircea_popescu: >.< [17:22]
asciilifeform: i'd hope it's on acct of it being inside the most recent update cycle. ( BingoBoingo ? ) [17:22]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, on a side note, that iii footnote is funny now "and while it is entirely possible someone strikes a multi-BTC jackpot, it is not altogether very likely" [17:25]
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i'd hope it's on acct of it being inside the most recent update cycle. ( BingoBoingo ? ) << This assessment of local liquidity is indeed the latest update cycle, but local liquidity has been growing over the past month. [17:25]
asciilifeform: in re the uy1 machine: i'ma set up a realtime systemlog printer for that machine. if there's a physical problem with the iron, i expect we will find the culprit shortly. [17:25]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ikr. [17:25]
mircea_popescu: on a long enough timeline the unlikely becomes certainty\ [17:26]
diana_coman: if not ONE unlikely then..another! lol [17:26]
mircea_popescu: aha [17:27]
diana_coman: what is the duration of this update cycle or what is it exactly? [17:28]
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886575 <--> http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886486 [17:30]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 22:15 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there can be no question of 'sharing rack', it's entirely nonstarter. what there are, are half-height racks, in which most of the other customers of that bldg live. but they are bad deal, iirc they only cost slightly less than a full 42 height. [17:30]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 19:01 trinque: I'd be shocked if you needed more than that 10/100. [17:30]
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, but how *many* accounts did you message out of how many in the db, over what time, what filter(s) did you use and with what results? << The way I've been walking by hand involves looking at the users online list most forums helpfully still offer and going from there. Recently I've taken to looking for "I got banned from X turdservice" threads and blogs then posting targeted copy as demonstrated in one of the [17:31]
BingoBoingo: links earlier mentioned. At present there is one ongoing conversation as a result of this. [17:31]
trinque: and http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886481 [17:31]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 18:53 BingoBoingo: trinque: I don't have concrete plans. The major part of the DC cost is pipe rather than rack. Renegotiating for less pipe with the datacenter would change the costs we are basing our colocation price off of as well. [17:31]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, did you talk to your tech about automating any part of that? [17:32]
diana_coman: and I still don't know how many... [17:33]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo, is your colocation price not competitive? [17:33]
trinque: diana_coman: would reducing the download capacity to 10mbps harm your use case any? [17:34]
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the painful troof is that's riotously 'uncompetitive' vs. ~the reich~, where 'same' price gets you 100mbit/bidirectional ~per machine~ [17:35]
asciilifeform: this item is on acct of the geography, and i do not presently know of a cure [17:36]
diana_coman: trinque, my personal one no [17:36]
asciilifeform: trinque: ~90% of the time the pipe is no saturated. the issue is burst capacity. [17:36]
asciilifeform: *not [17:36]
trinque: issue for whom [17:37]
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> BingoBoingo, did you talk to your tech about automating any part of that? << I have not directly requested that no. There was the conversation that lead to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880371 and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-18#1881538 [17:37]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 19:41 BingoBoingo: ^ Any awk ninjas want to try this on a few forums? [17:37]
a111: Logged on 2018-12-18 19:59 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wants to hire BingoBoingo to do it BingoBoingo is looking around for "awk experts" to do it. meanwhile, danielpbarron is out there doing it. [17:37]
asciilifeform: trinque: i cannot speak for other users, but i saturate it regularly when i make backups [17:37]
asciilifeform: trinque: i'm entirely in agreement with your earlier pt re 'i'd rather have thin pipe than no pipe'. the q is whether the currently unborn subscribers, who are needed in order to go into the black, will agree. [17:39]
diana_coman: trinque, for s.mg it's less straightforward and it's not even just a matter of backups only at any rate, it's at best "starvation mode" so I don't see how it really gets pizarro out of trouble so far it's not even clear that *price* is the trouble re converting really is it? [17:39]
diana_coman: not to mention that it sounds to me that you'll potentially lose precisely those customers you want [17:39]
trinque: don't know if y'all have a realistic perception of what sales takes, and "I'm gonna sell my way into the black in two months" sounds like. [17:40]
asciilifeform: ftr , and in re whole thread, asciilifeform is entirely all ears re any thoughts trinque , diana_coman , mircea_popescu , et al, have re subj of what gotta be done in order to reach the black. [17:41]
trinque: negotiate with existing customers re: what cuts they'll suffer, *if* they will, cut, and roll everything you can to actual, aggressive sales efforts [17:42]
trinque: barring that the thing's dead. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform enumerate the db of each forum touching upon internet, message each single user, report on results. [17:42]
asciilifeform: trinque: why mention only cuts , but not price ? thing's riotously underpriced currently. [17:42]
mircea_popescu: should've been done last jan, or last feb, or last mar, or last apr, or last etc. [17:42]
trinque: asciilifeform: if you try to reach black by multiplying my bill, I'll just leave. [17:43]
mircea_popescu: the notion whereby "i've been doing something by hand in lieu of what i'm supposed to do" passing muster is not unlike the case where you send girl to buy you shoes and she comes by with "i love you alf" papier mache "8th march -- mother's day!!" gift. [17:43]
mircea_popescu: what is this, retard school ? we don't want "projects" in the playdo sense. [17:43]
diana_coman: myeah, that "into the black in two months" seems to me weird here the trouble is not even "in two months" but at all because it has been way more than 2 months and if it keeps going as is, I doubt 10 months would make a difference [17:43]
asciilifeform: trinque: enlighten me, what exactly price is republican hosting worth to trinque ? is it '10% over what amazon costs' ? or 'the number i've grown used to?' what's the calculation there [17:44]
trinque: since I still host everything important elsewhere, not as much as if I thought it'd be around. [17:45]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whatever the calculation is, it's not gonna be "im just gonna subsizide whatever-you-guise-feel-like" [17:45]
trinque: and since the "fair price" is going to be "what we need" ^ aha [17:45]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'd expect not [17:45]
mircea_popescu: yes, there's an argument to be made for "help out fellow republicans". fine and good, but them fellow republicans'd better be out there converting the world to the republic. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: because if they are not -- guess what, bezos also isn't. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: and i hear he has a wife to support, as well. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: the shaver shaves universally -- it's not one shaver for phf and a diff one shaver for pizarro. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: if you opt to not tell people to come in -- you opt to be out of here. [17:46]
mircea_popescu: tmsr isn't some cool secret project for five dorks under some covers in a pillow fort somewhere. tmsr is the rule of the world and mandatory at all junctures, wtf. [17:47]
mircea_popescu: first, you tell them to come over, then you start nuking everyone else, and on in this manner. what, are we fucking around ? [17:48]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how does this square with the http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/#selection-23.0-31.1 item ? [17:48]
mircea_popescu: "my five year plan for pizarro is that by the time we're done with the first three it'll not be physically possible to do such a thing as 'host a website' anywhere else."\ [17:48]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what dun square ? [17:49]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the item where mircea_popescu decided that heathendom is ~irredeemably stupid, and that ~all the folx who belong in, are already in [17:49]
mircea_popescu: last i heard you're not welcome in the us congress, will still get fined if you park in the main entryway to courthouse. [17:49]
mircea_popescu: let them pay pizarro, nobody said they're gonna be making policy. [17:50]
trinque: BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886484 << I was looking for a calculation on your part, so you have something to negotiate with customers. [17:52]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 18:57 BingoBoingo: Well the numbers as of last January http://bingology.net/2018/01/18/datacenter-costs/ [17:52]
trinque: "capacity will temporarily be X while BingoBoingo Ys, this gives T time left to P. customers will meanwhile accumulate S shares per billing cycle of diminished capacity" as a rough model of what I'm talking about. [17:54]
trinque: or y'all can proceed valiantly into the void, whichever you prefer [17:55]
mircea_popescu: customer-shares program ? why ? [17:56]
trinque: it's a model of a negotiation, not proposing a specific, other than not sitting around thinking about how lordly we are while we die [17:57]
trinque: if customers wont take the diminished capacity that's basically all else pizarro has that has (if very) hypothetical value [17:57]
trinque: with which to persuade for the cut [17:57]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho trinque is right , tomorrow morning is the time to have a talk with the dc rep re bw pricing function ( and post the output to our www asap ) [17:59]
mircea_popescu: trinque what customers ? [18:01]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that your dc respects you is probably your only asset now. giving that away will yield what, "a clearer situation" ? [18:01]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform that your dc respects you is probably your only asset now. giving that away will yield what, "a clearer situation" ? << This is my worry about "renegotiating" with the DC [18:02]
asciilifeform: hm [18:02]
BingoBoingo: Even if I frame it as "we aren't utilizing the whole pipe", they are going to smell blood [18:03]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is your thought that attempts to cut cost are entirely wrong thrust ? [18:03]
mircea_popescu: yes, my thought is that if you can't make sales with spare capacity you're not going to make sales without spare capacity. [18:03]
* BingoBoingo going to take a walk while the rain's stopped and try to unload some of this cortisol [18:03]
mircea_popescu: moreover that if your pet duck is eating its feet it's not gonna become a drake anytime soon. [18:03]
diana_coman: when is the time for http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886626 ? [18:04]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 22:42 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform enumerate the db of each forum touching upon internet, message each single user, report on results. [18:04]
trinque: mircea_popescu: most hosting is biased towards upload anyway, and there's ample capacity on that end to sell. [18:06]
trinque: what was it, they paid 3x for the symmetric? [18:06]
mircea_popescu: anyways, is the situation here is that mod6 is quietly opting out while you're explicitly opting out of the refinancing you both were very excited to do a year or so ago, back when i was rebuffing ben_vulpes with "the only thing another cap round buys you is not havign to do any work for a longer interval" ? [18:07]
mircea_popescu: trinque i'm not that in touch, but iirc it was a good deal as symmetric. [18:08]
BingoBoingo: A symmetric pipe would have been much more expensive [18:08]
trinque: ah, that's the error then, I thought it was already the symmetric. [18:08]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mod6's nerves gave out and he went on sabbatical w/out yet having said whether, and to what extent, he will participate . [18:09]
asciilifeform: currently he still stands as a 50% owner. [18:11]
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/nu-mai-avem-titluri-de-voiaj-reveniti-miine/ << Trilema -- Nu mai avem titluri de voiaj reveniti miine! [18:17]
* asciilifeform will return in ~1h [18:19]
diana_coman: asciilifeform, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886623 -> automate 1st stages of reach out at a very minimum, run it, analyse it [18:20]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 22:41 asciilifeform: ftr , and in re whole thread, asciilifeform is entirely all ears re any thoughts trinque , diana_coman , mircea_popescu , et al, have re subj of what gotta be done in order to reach the black. [18:20]
mod6: I'm still committed to the 5 BTC promised a while ago. [18:21]
mod6: Dinner time, bbl. [18:21]
mircea_popescu: so ok, if mod6 is committed to the prev 5btc and asciilifeform meets it, what exactly is pizarro's financial problem ? [18:46]
mircea_popescu: seems rather the problem is "how to spend tens of thousands of dollars with a roi" rather than "wut do april" [18:46]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if pizarro can say "talked to 985,553 heathens this month, here's the script, here's the results breakdown, here's the more interesting lulz/notions/ideas" it stands in a WAY the fuck better position than what trinque above perceived may well degenerate into a simple "gimme". [18:49]
mircea_popescu: because i can see why someone'd go, "eh, whatever, thirty heathens to the cent, i don't even mind paying". as per ye even older http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-21#1026639 [18:50]
a111: Logged on 2015-02-21 01:19 mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash" [18:50]
trinque: then the question becomes why BingoBoingo is writing about death when capitalized through his perceived deadline [18:57]
trinque: derps gotta talk to each other [18:57]
BingoBoingo: My inclination was not to take the earlier committment for granted and underline the need to start working out a plan to achieve a positive ROI because I can't man alone it. Having sidechannel discussions outside this forum has been demonstrated -EV in the past. I am also wary of having strategic discussions outside of the channel where most of the republic's strategic and commercial competence sits. [19:17]
BingoBoingo: Anyways, I was feeling overdue for an appointment with the sharp rotating blades of the immutable machine. [19:31]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886685 << i'ma match mod6 . and then see to it that mircea_popescu's advices are actually followed, even if ( and it appears that yes if ) i gotta run the spamatrons with own hands & feet [19:31]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-13 23:46 mircea_popescu: so ok, if mod6 is committed to the prev 5btc and asciilifeform meets it, what exactly is pizarro's financial problem ? [19:31]
mircea_popescu: this is a perfectly valid metric, "derps reached per bitcent". much like bw or w/e else, it's a measurement, yes. [19:32]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also on subj, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5gd63/?raw=true [19:36]
feedbot: http://bimbo.club/2019/01/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-april-may-and-june-1714-part-i/ << Bimbo.Club -- Philosophical Transactions. For the months of April, May and June, 1714 - Part I. [19:36]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tqDlJ/?raw=true [19:40]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: danke schon! [19:41]
mircea_popescu: doesn't that look suspicious. [20:17]
* BingoBoingo putting on shoes. asciilifeform is there anything in particular you want me to check for beyond what I reported yesterday? [20:19]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the seals. [20:26]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aite. [20:30]
trinque: BingoBoingo: looks like uy1 rebooted again? [20:36]
mircea_popescu: we were just talking about that. [20:36]
trinque: hrm [20:36]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to switch on with chassic open and determine if fans moving and clean the latter. ty [20:38]
asciilifeform: *chassis [20:38]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: bios setup of that box also contains internal log, which will report if thermal trip. plox to examine. [20:40]
asciilifeform: also BingoBoingo plox to connect kvm hoses to selfsame box, and kvm power to mains, before you leave the cage. [20:41]
mircea_popescu: wb [20:46]
lobbes: ty. (my irssi is on teh uy1) [20:48]
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda curious what comes out of this. [20:51]
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886692 << I've been digesting your initial blawg post, and then that last thread. If I were to summarize what I'd read I'd say the short-term path is clear: start automating, and then reporting on metrics gathered. In the best case it seems the only way to generate enough sales. In the worst case you will have at least produced some meaningful statistics [20:54]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 00:17 BingoBoingo: My inclination was not to take the earlier committment for granted and underline the need to start working out a plan to achieve a positive ROI because I can't man alone it. Having sidechannel discussions outside this forum has been demonstrated -EV in the past. I am also wary of having strategic discussions outside of the channel where most of the republic's strategic and commercial competence sits. [20:54]
lobbes: it would seem like BingoBoingo's and my own (albiet limited) experiences illustrate the futile and time-wasting nature of sifting through the meat pile by hand >> http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/sales-report-june-2018/ [20:54]
mircea_popescu: re http://bingology.net/2019/01/11/more-lessons-learned-pizarro-entering-2019/#selection-51.13-51.130 specifically (ie, "no hardware to sell"), is this actually the case ? i thought there was some overcapacity [21:04]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo re ". Even when I manage a piece of evangelical Republican writing well received by the targeted community as measured by 'likes'... the reception warm reception is fuctionally empty." << the problem with this is the single-flower-spring issue. if you wish t go this route your measurements are in the dozens of accounts, spitting forth 100s of daily posts supporting each other across the whole "niche". [21:07]
mircea_popescu: you don't do that, you don't get anywhere. [21:07]
mircea_popescu: understand there's no such thing as "a liver". either it's the whole enchilada, liver, stomach, bone, muscles, skin, all the organs -- or else nothing at all. [21:08]
mircea_popescu: in other news, libgnarl.a is a great name indeed! [21:18]
mircea_popescu: re http://pizarroisp.net/2019/01/ : leaving aside how annoying it is i can't select, and how it's the case trying to comment timesout : it seems the case pizarro ~made~ about 2 bitcoin during november, on the strength of its fiat-denominated holdings, taking it from being worth ~14 to being worth ~17 bitcoin ? [21:26]
mircea_popescu: are these factual ? because ~both~ of these would be ~significant~ accomplishments, neh ? shareholders put in 11, if memory serves, so they realised a 60% roi over the interval ? [21:27]
mircea_popescu: it strikes me as the height of strange that the balance sheet seems to paint a rosy picture whereas management communication is bleak and dour. these shouldn't contradict so, which is it ? [21:27]
mircea_popescu: in other news, ffa chapters are such a pleasure. it seems to me by now ffa has become such a largest-rock in the loperos garden... [21:37]
mircea_popescu: kudos. [21:37]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Fans clean, all spin. Palpable air movement in and out of the chassis. Seals in tact on arrival, new seals deployed. KVM connected. I did not manage to find the internal log in the BIOS. [21:39]
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-14#1886726 << very happy to hear that mircea_popescu enjoyed reading. i've put a good bit of sweat in recent times into keeping these pieces short & edible. [21:42]
a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 02:37 mircea_popescu: in other news, ffa chapters are such a pleasure. it seems to me by now ffa has become such a largest-rock in the loperos garden... [21:42]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ty, i'ma instrument the thing for realtime logging soon as i wake up ( about to turn in, and would rather not break things when half awake ) [21:43]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it strikes me as the height of strange that the balance sheet seems to paint a rosy picture whereas management communication is bleak and dour. these shouldn't contradict so, which is it ? << The cash flow situation concerns me. Our fiat denominated holdings have appreciated. As you assessed earlier our primary asset is a healthy customer relationship with the (very rare) independent datacenter. Maintaining that [22:04]
BingoBoingo: relationship is also the largest of our recurring fiat denominated expenses. Sitting here my thinking latched onto present cash flow situation as the datacenter's goodwill isn't very liquid. [22:04]
mircea_popescu: i suppose. [22:05]
asciilifeform: meanwhile, elsewhere, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2963&cpage=1#comment-19774 [22:20]
mircea_popescu: i happen to agree with the fellow, "partial order" (as in, the term of art) is specifically why not actually breaking anything. [22:27]
mircea_popescu: and ahh, what a joy to be catched up! [22:32]
mircea_popescu: in other arcana : i have here a copy of trb that has died a mysterious death on dec 31st. the process itself hasn't returned, ps aux lists it as expected, however the last time it touched any files was two weeks ago, nor does a call to getinfo ever return. [22:53]
mircea_popescu: is this a first ? [22:54]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what if anyffing is in the log tail ? [23:10]
mircea_popescu: it's own debug log ? a buncha disconnecting node x [23:10]
asciilifeform: ending dec31? or continues [23:11]
mircea_popescu: ending then [23:11]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik yer the pioneer , this is 1st such case on record. [23:12]
mircea_popescu: i weep not hjaving ran this particular instance in debug, so i can't see where it's looping, or wtf [23:13]
asciilifeform: i assume mircea_popescu already checked that disk wasnt full [23:13]
mircea_popescu: but what the FUCK can i do, run everything in debug, maybe 3-5-12 layers deep ? [23:13]
asciilifeform: 1 suffices , lol [23:13]
mircea_popescu: this anger has led me to re-read ye olde http://trilema.com/2018/the-symbolics-discussion/ only to discover i'm ~still~ not satisfied [23:13]
mircea_popescu: "why didn't it sell with the rest ?" still haunts me. [23:14]
* asciilifeform wishes that these happend on ~his~ boxen ! [23:14]
mircea_popescu: i'd like a computer where i didn't have this sort of problem. [23:15]
asciilifeform: heh i have a whole www about these.. [23:15]
mircea_popescu: "something happened -- nobody knows when or why or how. would you like fries with that ?" [23:15]
asciilifeform: unixtardation, crashism, bigger calamity than pb in petrol, or in pipes, or 100 chernobyls [23:16]
mircea_popescu: here i sit and stare into the terminal, not knowing what to do. this happens absolutely never in my life, except when dealing with fucking computers. [23:18]
asciilifeform: in the past , asciilifeform encountered cases like this and resorted to dumping physical mem images. but doesnt expect mircea_popescu to do this [23:20]
asciilifeform: ( aand they're a 1st class bitch to get anyffing useful out of ) [23:20]
mircea_popescu: i don't expect anything useful could be had in a timeframe shorter than re-doing all of bitcoin. it's a large box etc. [23:21]
asciilifeform: unixtardation is an item i'd like to live to see an end put to, verily. [23:22]
asciilifeform: sorta whole orig thrust behind asciilifeform's archaeologies, experiments in old days, fpga room, etc [23:22]
mircea_popescu: myeah. [23:23]
mircea_popescu: and there it goes : happily eats ctrl-c, OF COURSE, cuz why the fuck have any sort of notion of human priviledge or anything, terminal has its own mind, right. but if sigkilled dies peacibly and then restarts as if nothing had happened. [23:24]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: any sign of oom, or anyffin else peculiar, in last hours of log ? [23:26]
mircea_popescu: absolutely nothing. [23:26]
asciilifeform: nuts. [23:26]
mircea_popescu: i ~suspect~ but obviously have no way of proving that its netpipe flickered and it never recovered. [23:26]
asciilifeform: this dun normally nail the process tho [23:26]
mircea_popescu: no, i know [23:26]
mircea_popescu: besides i have testing for this specific, "whyat happens with net interface unreliability", never found this particular issue [23:27]
mircea_popescu: but then agai nthe space of shit is SO VAST it's not feasible to exhaustively test. [23:27]
asciilifeform: very handy test tho [23:27]
asciilifeform: i've planted noad under gsm modem, for instance, surprisingly - worked [23:28]
* asciilifeform bbl, food [23:28]
mircea_popescu: it's important, really cornerstone of all "made by vbasic/java/etc minds and has network access" items. [23:28]
mircea_popescu: no offense to Mocky_ , whose brain works fine. [23:28]
mircea_popescu: back to the truly irksome : [23:51]
mircea_popescu: phf pre-symbolics the "theorems" were "how do i computer" in general. those guys weren't playing around with custom fpga in their garage that they failed to sell. they were basically figuring out how to build a von neumann machine that can do things, which they did [23:51]
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu this part is fine. now, why did they fail to a) band together and b) control, deliberately, the product. they did a very strict anti-a and anti-b. why! the only reason mit even exists in this picture is because the dozen was "omfg, we DID figure it out, now quick, find someone TO PROTECT US FROM OUR HAVING FIGURED IT OUT!!1" holy shit who thinks like this and why do they. [23:51]
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